Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User

[Thomas Milne]

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Christopher Browne <cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>wrote:

> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lennart Sorensen <
> lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 12:00:42PM -0400, Paul Tarvydas wrote:
>> > Correct.
>> >
>> > Although, it didn't "confuse" me.  It just pissed me off.
>> >
>> > It was like using Windows.
>>
>> It's almost the exact opposit of windows.  Windows installs all the
>> features by default and enables them all.  Debian installs almost nothing
>> and does not enable things by default.
>>
>
> It might technically be "opposite," but it does not amaze me that someone
> might find some way in which it appears to be similar in behaviour.
>
>  > Every time I wanted to accomplish something, I needed to install an
>> > "update".  By the time it was finished, I couldn't remember what it
>> > was I was trying to accomplish.
>> >
>> > It continuously got in my way.
>> >
>> > I've been developing real-time embedded software and compilers (not
>> > linux development, not webserver development / deployment) for a
>> > living for 30+ years.  I need all of the tools to be in place.  And
>> > the "office" and web-client stuff just needs to be there and not
>> > irritate me.
>>
>> Unfortunately what you want is not what everyone wants in a system.
>>
>
> Quite so.
>
> One of the ways to regard Debian is as a "distribution construction kit,"
> and the sour grapes about Ubuntu's popularity as an instance of a
> distribution constructed using that kit is simultaneously understandable
> as well as annoying, because Shuttleworth is effectively doing what he
> was *supposed* to be able to do with Debian.
>
> The one place where I continue to find Ubuntu somewhat desirable is
> in that it works harder on having something that makes all the major
> sorts of functionality on laptops "sing and dance."
>
> I recently acquired a new laptop, and am running Debian testing on it;
> sadly, I have not yet been able to get WiFi working, despite spending
> some efforts on that.  On Debian, "some efforts" have borne near-zero
> results (and since I have a nice Cat5 cable beside my easy chair, I
> haven't cared *that* much).
>
> In contrast, I think I'd have had near zero difficulty getting wireless
> going with near zero effort on Ubuntu.  And it is rather irritating for
> there
> to be such a painful difference.
>
> An old, and still amusing, essay is the "Clueless Users Are Bad For
> Debian" one.  <http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/1999/03/msg02288.html>
>

It must be pretty old, because it's utter mythology. Installing and using
Debian is not even remotely difficult. If you can manage to get a computer
to boot from a CD, I can't imagine anything that would hold back even the
most retarded user. If you can read, and click 'next', it's no different
than installing any other OS. In fact, it might even be easier, since once
it boots up for the first time you don't have to be worried about it being
immediately hosed by some random, trivial malware.

I avoided using Debian for years because of this mythology, only to find
that it was far easier to use than any of the other distributions I had
tried, simply because once I installed it I was done _forever_. It
flawlessly updated itself every time and gave me access to whatever
packages I needed without compiling or configuring or anything aggravating.

Other than the relatively common complaint about firmware for weird
proprietary wireless devices in laptops, I can't recall anyone offering a
specific experience where Debian had failed to get everything working as
needed.


> The afterword of that essay suggests that the Right Thing is to have
> Debian derivatives that strive to be friendly for the "Clueless Users."
> Unfortunately, that will always engender a substantial amount of
> conflict, as:
>
> a) A derivative may take on a life of its own and try to ignore the
> progenitor (Ubuntu, I'm looking at you!  :-))
>
> b) There is sure to be some conflict as the downstream systems
> will generally prefer to have as little between them and the upstream,
> and would correspondingly prefer to push whatever they do into
> Debian whether or not that injures others involved.  I'm not sure
> there are many cases of that.
>



-- 
Thomas Milne
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