Ubuntu first time

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 01:07:00PM -0500, Alejandro Imass wrote:
> Yeah set it to ==2, been there, done that. And then you get no memory
> for doing almost anything. Try running Apache that way. Try it, and
> _then_ tell me it's a viable option for the vm.
> 
> That doesn't cut it for a modern OS, you need some optimism but you
> also need to deal with peak loads and Linux does not. At least not in
> 2.6

Well clearly a lot of people are managing to run some rather heavy loads
on Linux.  Given the much more permissive license of the BSDs you would
think companies would prefer to spend their time and effort there,
but they don't.

> This is *totally* unprecise because in Linux they both live
> practically in the same directories. Go ahead and upgrade libc or even
> gcc. There is no separation between system and applications in Linux.
> In *BSD even the compiler is specific to the base system, so they are
> completely separated. Why doesn't any Linux distro follow this beats
> me, but it should.

I have upgraded libc.  Didn't affect anything else.  I have upgraded gcc,
again, didn't affect anything else.

> Yeah but you forget to mention that *BSD offers binary packages as
> well and these derive directly from ports. They both hit the same
> database so you can install from ports, and delete via package
> commands and vice-versa. Even CPAN in FBSD registers to the same
> packages DB so everything is in sync. Oh that's another problem in
> Debian I forgot to mention "the Debian Perl policiy".

And Debian has source packages that I can tak and modify should I choose
to do so, compile and install and it works fine too.

> Hmm, really? To mee it seems the other way around, or at minimum it
> goes both ways. As a simple example, how long does it take for Debian
> to incorporate a new Sane scanner driver? AGES! It's not uncommon for
> upstream developers to complain on how it takes for upgrades to reach
> the Debian repos, so the overall feeling *out there* is the _opposite_
> of what you are conveying.

Some package maintainers are faster than others at updating things.
Maybe the sane package maintainer has other commitments too.  No one is
getting paid for this after all.

> Hmm, I think you are confused with Linuxator which allows native Linux
> code to run on FBSD. If FreeBSD is so outdated, why does it still run
> over 50% of the Web?
> 
> http://freebsdfoundation.blogspot.com/2011/12/apache-software-foundation-testimonial.html
> http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2011/
> http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2011/03/01/most-reliable-hosting-company-sites-in-february-2011.html

http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2012/01/01/most-reliable-hosting-company-sites-in-december-2011.html

Interesting change.  So the top 40 last month by their reliability
measures (which certainly also involve network equipment outages and such)
has 5 FreeBSD, 2 Win 2003, 5 Win 2008, 2 F5 BIG-IP (no idea what that is)
and 28 Linux sites.

I wish I could find a page there that lists how many sites run on what
OS, not just which web server, but I couldn't find one.

Innertia is hard to overcome too.  If FreeBSD is _good_enough_ for
hosting, why change if it works.  Linux would have to be much better
than FreeBSD to convince existing large scale users to change, not just
equally good.

> It's about solving _real_ problems not imaginary ones. Anyway, the
> point of all this is not to start a FBSD vs. Linux flame, it's to
> point out that you can't just be throwing FUD all over the place
> without asserting the facts. Especially when you are going to create
> FUD on other Open Source projects.
> 
> Just to be clear, I *love* Linux, for some things at least. But I
> *love* FreeBSD and other Open Source as well, not just Free Software.
> 
> Man, more and more I get to understand the saying "Linux is for people
> that hate Windows and FreeBSD is for people that love Unix". Though,
> lately it seems that Debian GNU/Linux is for people that hate anything
> else!

I actually don't hate Windows or BSD, I just don't think there is much
of anything that either is better at than Linux anymore.  A lot of
BSD users keep insisting that stuff that was true a decade ago must be
true forever.  I have used BSD back when there was a reason to.  Now I
no longer see one and the BSD user space I just find highly unpleasant
to work withcompared to Debian and most other Linux distributions.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
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