Organizing TLUG/newTLUG meeting for Tuesday

[Bill Mudry]

At 10:40 AM 11/6/04 -0500, you wrote:

>I think when you consider that attendance at TLUG and NewTLUG have been 
>pretty stagnant over the past few years, probably even some decline, 
>despite the increased use of linux, what you are really talking about is a 
>replacement for tlug and newtlug. Unless you

I am so sorry you feel that way, John. You have totally side stepped, John, 
the whole issue of geographical distances. The new location
is a lot easier to get to than the east end meetings for those of us out 
west, granted. However ---- just how far do you think people will
travel anyway? What about places west of Mississauga? Besides, I try 
earnestly to repeat that the groups do not need to compete with
each other. Your view also is limited toward the overall picture toward 
what could happen in trying to promote Linux broadly. Would you also 
complain about a new LUG starting in, say, Oshawa? Belleville? 
Peterborough? Orangeville? Just how far away does a region have to
be before you would concede that distance DOES become a major impediment?

Also, suggesting that a new LUG centered out of Mississauga would damage 
attendance in the Toronto region does absolutely
nothing to address the heart of the matters you mentioned in declining 
attendance. There should be more effort, in the first place, to
look at the core of the problem. Why IS attendance going down? Is it the 
format of the meetings? The location? Insufficient interest
in what happens at meetings? Also, NO group will have much chance of 
growing if there plan is no in action for marketing and representation. Is 
anything being done to get the word around that there is a discussion list 
and meetings on Linux in the Toronto area?
Are they any ads running? Do community interest articles ever get published 
about Linux and TLUG in newpapers? magazines?
radio? TV? Flyers in colleges and universities?

The truly happy situation would be to see attendance growing in both TLUG 
and MissLUG ... and even others in Ontario.

In a similar situation, I have a life membership in a wood collecting 
society (... I have a collection of over 1850 species of wood). There
are members who have been quite concerned because membership is declining. 
Some of the executive members have been going
about saying how concerned they are about dropping numbers --- but do just 
about squat for years toward having proper marketing
and promotion in place. They have little justification to complain till 
they, themselves, realize the responsibility they have to finding
why membership is not at least holding its own and for not doing a thing 
about promoting the society. Just complaining about another
group starting up 40 - 50 miles away does not stop the reasons for 
membership dropping in the first place. It would continue to
happen regardless of other LUG's existing. Look at the root causes first.

If the new group was within Toronto itself, I could see some reason for 
concern. Also, we have suggested from the start that the
Mississauga based meetings should be on days that do not conflict with any 
TLUG or newTLUG meetings.

>expect your misslug to be stronger than the existing tlug (a possibility I 
>suppose), then you are actually talking about the destruction of the area 
>lugs as they relate to face-to-face involvement.

(meeting in restaurants is not face-to face?)

SOME people may decide to attend preferably who live out toward the west in 
the Mississauga meetings that would have gone into
Toronto. However, in the total picture, that is hardly a huge exit of 
members. If MissLUG did grow well, it would be through the
virtues of efforts made out this way. No one is stopping anyone from taking 
measures to also grow TLUG. You have something like
5 times the population of Mississauga. Take on the responsibility of 
growing in Toronto instead of fearing growth west of you. Then
together we are all stronger. It is easy to complain, more responsible to 
take on growing TLUG -- and not at the expense of other
areas.

>We have just gone through an excessively lengthy thread about someone's 
>considerable effort to try to establish a caffe that would act as the hub 
>of LUG activity in the area. Before the floor polish is even dry, we now 
>have another effort in an entirely different direction. It's no

No, no, no. How many times <sigh> do I have to keep saying that none of 
this is at ALL meant to be a competition for the caffe effort??
How many times do I have to repeat that I have thought the caffe as a 
centralized location is a GREAT IDEA!?
That is just reactionary to say that and impeding on the freedom of others 
to have a more local action happening some distance away.
Despite what perhaps some may think, the whole world does not revolve 
around Toronto.

>wonder we never accomplish anything of value at tlug. So, yes, I do think 
>your efforts are MissPlaced. But I am not questioning the

That is illogical thinking since it is mere hours since any proposal has 
been put forward for a new LUG in the west end. By west end
I do not mean west end of Toronto as some tend to interpret but west of 
Toronto (with the possible exception of a few from Etobicoke
that might decide to attend). No one out here in Mississauga or surrounding 
cities and town have anything to do with why "we never
accomplish anything of value at tlug", so don't try to place that on our 
shoulders. Get busy instead finding how to better the situation
instead, both within the meetings and ways to promote TLUG more. Ask 
members what they like and do not like about the meetings.
What would they want that is not done now? Do others see reasons for the 
decline? Find out and address them. Be proactive ...or
realize there is little justification to complain.

>honesty of your intent and did not really mean to convey a flame, just 
>disappointment.
>
>My suggestion would be to solidify one goal (such as the caffee), then 
>move on when the numbers dictate that we should.

And how far away do you expect people to attend *regularly*? Your words 
also do not have any sympathy for people who have
no car and would have to travel 3 1/2 to 4 hours return -- even from 
Mississauga to attend, let alone further away. I am one of
those.

>John.

Bill

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