[GTALUG] brands matter; Lenovo's brands

[Jim Ruxton]

I'm not so impressed with Lenovo's support of it's Legion laptops. My model
as well as other Legion models have no speaker output in Linux. The
headphone jacks work but no sound out of the speakers. I would have thought
that having sound working was a bare minimum in terms of Linux support. I
dual boot and sound works fine in Windows. Apparently this problem is being
worked on and eventually we'll see a fix in a future kernel but it's
frustrating always having to drag my headphones around.
Jim

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 11:00 PM Dhaval Giani via talk <talk at gtalug.org>
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 7:16 PM Evan Leibovitch via talk <talk at gtalug.org>
> wrote:
>
>> The more this thread continues the more I am reminded about the role of
>> inertia in branding and marketing.
>>
>> Gaining a new customer (ie, getting them to switch brands) is a lot
>> harder than keeping existing ones, especially in mature markets. It's why
>> many big scummy companies treat you like dirt until the moment you threaten
>> to switch, at which point they shunt you to "retention" departments that
>> sometimes offer the only situations one could call competitive. Maybe.
>>
>> I'd say that now HP, <https://hpdevone.com/linux-laptop> Dell
>> <https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-ca/000138246/linux-on-dell-desktops-and-laptops>
>> and Lenovo
>> <https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/faqs/operating-systems/what-is-linux/> all
>> expend the minimum necessary effort to support Linux, though that support
>> takes different forms. All know that you can't sell servers that won't
>> support Linux, and we don't have the compatibility issues of the early days
>> (where support meant not just PC markers but those of add-on interfaces
>> such as Adaptec and Digitech). Now most compatibility issues are either
>> BIOS related (mostly solved, and the fault of Microsoft rather than
>> hardware makers) graphics card and USB dongles (not an issue for servers
>> and not actually the fault of the laptop makers).
>>
>> The "Thinkpad love" I see here IMO appears to reflect the age and
>> experiences of the discussion participants. Early in the days of PCs there
>> was way more diversity in hardware that could be explicitly Linux friendly
>> or hostile, and IBM was friendlier from the start when not all were.
>> Recall that in the 90s and 00s, HP, IBM and Dell (well DEC which was
>> eventually consumed by Dell via Compaq) all had big legacy
>> Unix/minicomputer businesses to protect, plus under Ballmer Microsoft was
>> overtly and aggressively hostile. IBM probably did the best job in not
>> letting all this get in the way of providing Linux support early on its
>> high-end PCs, and that reputation has stuck to the Thinkpad brand to this
>> day.
>>
>> It would be interesting to see how anyone here who has only started
>> buying computers in the last 15 years or so regards this reverence for
>> Lenovo.
>>
>>
> I think I bought my first laptop in 2011 (so I guess that puts me in this
> category :-)). I have always had Linux on my computers, to the extent of
> not signing on with an employer when they needed me to run only Windows. I
> have owned thinkpads, HPs, and had experience on a couple of other brands
> (netbooks and MSI). Thinkpads have generally have had the best support for
> Linux - and not because Lenovo cares, but simply because majority of the
> developers I know of preferred using thinkpads. Having said that - I have
> had really positive experience with Lenovo support. HP wouldn't care what I
> had on the laptop and reimaged Windows on it. Not to mention trying to
> setup Linux on it was a nightmare (and I think I fit the category of
> advanced Linux users). In another case (I think it was an MSI), I knew the
> hardware was supported by Linux, but I could only get everything working
> with Fedora rawhide. Coming back to thinkpad support though - I have rarely
> had issues with them supporting hardware irrespective of the OS running on
> it. It was easier of course if it had Windows, but they would send out a
> technician who had their own boot disk to boot into their diagnostic OS and
> confirm the issue (I did pony up the extra $s for the in person support).
> My employer also has kernel developers working with Lenovo for some of
> their laptops to ensure that Linux support is in, which has resulted in a
> number of fixes to bioses and to the kernel. I believe we do it with a few
> other OEMs, but Lenovo was the one I cared to find out about since I have a
> thinkpad.
>
> Dhaval
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