[GTALUG] brands matter; Lenovo's brands

[Dhaval Giani]

On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 7:16 PM Evan Leibovitch via talk <talk at gtalug.org>
wrote:

> The more this thread continues the more I am reminded about the role of
> inertia in branding and marketing.
>
> Gaining a new customer (ie, getting them to switch brands) is a lot harder
> than keeping existing ones, especially in mature markets. It's why many big
> scummy companies treat you like dirt until the moment you threaten to
> switch, at which point they shunt you to "retention" departments that
> sometimes offer the only situations one could call competitive. Maybe.
>
> I'd say that now HP, <https://hpdevone.com/linux-laptop> Dell
> <https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-ca/000138246/linux-on-dell-desktops-and-laptops>
> and Lenovo
> <https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/faqs/operating-systems/what-is-linux/> all
> expend the minimum necessary effort to support Linux, though that support
> takes different forms. All know that you can't sell servers that won't
> support Linux, and we don't have the compatibility issues of the early days
> (where support meant not just PC markers but those of add-on interfaces
> such as Adaptec and Digitech). Now most compatibility issues are either
> BIOS related (mostly solved, and the fault of Microsoft rather than
> hardware makers) graphics card and USB dongles (not an issue for servers
> and not actually the fault of the laptop makers).
>
> The "Thinkpad love" I see here IMO appears to reflect the age and
> experiences of the discussion participants. Early in the days of PCs there
> was way more diversity in hardware that could be explicitly Linux friendly
> or hostile, and IBM was friendlier from the start when not all were.
> Recall that in the 90s and 00s, HP, IBM and Dell (well DEC which was
> eventually consumed by Dell via Compaq) all had big legacy
> Unix/minicomputer businesses to protect, plus under Ballmer Microsoft was
> overtly and aggressively hostile. IBM probably did the best job in not
> letting all this get in the way of providing Linux support early on its
> high-end PCs, and that reputation has stuck to the Thinkpad brand to this
> day.
>
> It would be interesting to see how anyone here who has only started buying
> computers in the last 15 years or so regards this reverence for Lenovo.
>
>
I think I bought my first laptop in 2011 (so I guess that puts me in this
category :-)). I have always had Linux on my computers, to the extent of
not signing on with an employer when they needed me to run only Windows. I
have owned thinkpads, HPs, and had experience on a couple of other brands
(netbooks and MSI). Thinkpads have generally have had the best support for
Linux - and not because Lenovo cares, but simply because majority of the
developers I know of preferred using thinkpads. Having said that - I have
had really positive experience with Lenovo support. HP wouldn't care what I
had on the laptop and reimaged Windows on it. Not to mention trying to
setup Linux on it was a nightmare (and I think I fit the category of
advanced Linux users). In another case (I think it was an MSI), I knew the
hardware was supported by Linux, but I could only get everything working
with Fedora rawhide. Coming back to thinkpad support though - I have rarely
had issues with them supporting hardware irrespective of the OS running on
it. It was easier of course if it had Windows, but they would send out a
technician who had their own boot disk to boot into their diagnostic OS and
confirm the issue (I did pony up the extra $s for the in person support).
My employer also has kernel developers working with Lenovo for some of
their laptops to ensure that Linux support is in, which has resulted in a
number of fixes to bioses and to the kernel. I believe we do it with a few
other OEMs, but Lenovo was the one I cared to find out about since I have a
thinkpad.

Dhaval
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://gtalug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20230918/b590f85b/attachment.html>