[GTALUG] WSL, threat or boon? [was Re:Surveillance Capitalism [was another thread]]

[Russell Reiter]

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 11:21 AM Jamon Camisso via talk <talk at gtalug.org>
wrote:

tl;dr
I believe GCC supports more traditional languages than LLVM.

On 05/04/2021 09:31, Russell Reiter via talk wrote:
> > In that case, in the debate between GCC and clang LLVM, as someone who is
> > unable to write an operating system from scratch; who relies on
> > documentation
> > and the help of like minded people; my vote goes to GCC. It preserves
> > support for what
> > I see as program necessary artifacts. Plus I see python and other
> > interpretative hooks
> > into machine code a risk, which must be well balanced, from a SigInt
> > perspective.
>
> 1. What's the debate about? Links please.
>

It sorta started here. With this headline, as the OP frames his libel in a
later post.

https://gtalug.org/pipermail/talk/2021-March/009994.html

I won't quote the written spurious defamation.

Then it wasn't forked but prompted this. Which I will quote from my own
perspective of Social [Ir]Responsibility.

https://gtalug.org/pipermail/talk/2021-March/010016.html

"All wins for the side he champions have been provisional.  For example,
the GPL has not prevented Linux to be "enclosed"; GCC is in the process of
being supplanted by LLVM.  He/we can never rest."


> 2. What do you mean by interpretative hooks? What is the risk model that
> you are conflating with with LLVM, and how is it any different than GCC?
>

For me, as a reader of documentation, it is the risk of losing support
structure and ceeding to competitive advantage without the abstraction of
critical thinking.

I call this the IBM DITTO interference effect. Direct Internal Text
Transfer Object references can be misleading.


> Do you verify all your binaries and compiler and all the intermediate
> objects when you build software? As Ken Thompson said, "You can't trust
> code that you did not totally create yourself... No amount of
> source-level verification or scrutiny will protect you from using
> untrusted code[1]."
>
> Since the "debate" as presented here is framed in terms of (specious
> until proven otherwise) risk, I suggest that focusing on the compiler is
> a secondary concern to the main trust issues that must be addressed,
> which are formal verification and reproducible builds. Perhaps the
> CompCert compiler would be better for your needs[2].
>
> > In such a case of reconstructionism, I believe GCC is the better
> > philosophical option.
>


> Why do you believe it is better? Is using LLVM restricting developers
> from writing software that can create social change? Does GCC somehow
> better enable developers to engage in critical thinking about the world?
> Is any of the above the reason that you use a compiler or write
> software? I'd like to understand how either compiler helps or hinders
> you, or other developers.
>

Well as a linux user, or LUSER as some of the hate mail directed at me
because someone harvested my email from this list linux had once deemed me;
I think others like me, who rely on code we cannot write for ourselves ie.
the operating system code, we have no choice but to trust those who do.

I'm not sure I'd actually trust someone who writes computer code and
doesn't understand me as a person, to write software which can create
social change. I'd rather the social change retain my humanity and keep the
hate out of it.

Otherwise the rather innocent lady on this list wouldn't have deemed
Richard Stallman a baby killing rape endorser, because someone else alluded
to that fact by claiming he was incel.

https://gtalug.org/pipermail/talk/2021-April/010120.html

And that's as close to similar inflammatory rhetoric as I'm going to go
with this. Except to point out that the list machine placed a carat in
front of the first line of my list response to her list post, but not the
rest of what I wrote.


> [1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/358198.358210
> [2] https://github.com/AbsInt/CompCert
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-- 
Russell
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