[GTALUG] Seeking help with a unique Linux project?

Sat Dec 19 19:23:35 UTC 2015

Hi Blaise,
Again thanks for that terrific article link.
I am wondering which of the two options presented  is likely to allow for 
the greatest command line access?
I am feeling avlinux, but that is just a feeling.
The command line aspect is critical since  a graphical structure will not 
work  with speech for me if I come in from the outside.
I will cripple check that to be certain though.
Thanks again,
Karen

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:

> I'll keep this on-list since people seem to be interested!
>
> Libre Music Production has a good getting started guide on selecting a GNU/Linux
> distribution for pro audio:
> http://libremusicproduction.com/articles/advantages-choosing-audio-orientated-linux-distribution
>
> That article recommends an audio distribution, because they have certain tweaks
> applied, like the low latency kernel selection, or changes to
> /etc/security/limits.conf with respect to the audio group, etc. Using an audio
> distribution, or the KXStudio repositories, handles much of that for you.
>
> (But the KXStudio repositories don't include the kernel.)
>
> In Ubuntu, there's a linux-lowlatency package. In Debian, I added the Liquorix
> repositories to get that low latency kernel.
>
>
> That Libre Music Production article doesn't go into a lot of technical detail,
> but it explains:
> """
> Realtime audio performance is important to many when working with audio
> software. What this means in real terms is having the recorded signal played
> back through your playback system without any audible delay. This is important
> when monitoring your performance. Latency is inherent in computers but there are
> things that can be done to minimize it.
>
> There are many tweaks, big and small, that Linux distros make under the hood
> that are beneficial to this and general audio performance. As an end user, you
> don't need to know the technical ins and outs of what these do. You just need to
> know that the end result is that audio processes are prioritized by the
> operating system, thus, allowing you to more easily achieve stable and/or low
> latency audio.
> """
>
> There's more technical information on latency and audio production in the Ardour
> manual, but far more in depth than you really need to understand!
> http://manual.ardour.org/synchronization/latency-and-latency-compensation/
>
>
> I've tried using the standard Debian Jessie kernel. With that on my machine, the
> best I can do without audio glitches (xruns) is about ~21ms latency. With
> liquorix, it's ~2ms.
>
> If you're playing something slow or flowy, you might not even notice the
> difference. But if you're playing a series of fast notes, or something rhythmic
> or percussive, it's really disorienting to have that slight delay between
> pressing the keys on your keyboard and hearing the sound. It's often noticeable
> in normal music performance.
>
> A low latency Linux kernel -- which is basically the standard Linux kernel, but
> with some changes around scheduling and deadlines -- just allows for a more
> natural feel for pro audio, where you can hear notice when you play them rather
> than with a slight delay.
>
> Hope that helps...
>
> Blaise
>
>
>
> On 15/12/15 03:27 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> Hi Blaise,
>> one of two.
>> Thanks for the off list invitation!  I shall certainly write you, but at least
>> given another post, will keep some of this on list.
>> i am posting the  software options  in that reply.  still can you explain, or
>> can others give examples of low latency kernels?
>> What a fascinating idea.
>> More in a moment,
>> Kare
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Karen,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the additional details!
>>>
>>> I'm Debian-based these days, with the KXStudio repositories for current audio
>>> production software and a low latency liquorix kernel, though I'm also still
>>> running Ubuntu Studio on my home desktop.
>>>
>>>
>>> One thing that may be a challenge (for which others on the list might have more
>>> knowledge) is your issue with speech in post-Squeeze Linux kernels. For pro
>>> audio work, the standard Squeeze kernel isn't going to be great... you want a
>>> low latency kernel if you want notes to play when you press them on a MIDI
>>> keyboard, or to be able to play back audio from several instrument sources at
>>> the same time reliably, nevermind to record any audio reliably.
>>>
>>> So I'm not sure how you solve that problem -- an older low latency kernel
>>> perhaps, which supports your speech hardware requirements but also pro audio?
>>> I'm not quite sure.
>>>
>>> (Also, are you using JACK yet? That may be another challenge with speech
>>> software, though an ALSA or Pulseaudio bridge may do the trick.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list? Feel free to email me
>>> at blaise at apeironmusic.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> Blaise
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15/12/15 01:11 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>>> Hello Blaise,
>>>> Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can provide.
>>>> I honestly admit  to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one can only
>>>> perform  live with well other live people smiles.
>>>> So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious as well.
>>>> As for command line music making  tools, there are actually rather a few I  am
>>>> learning.  I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet your
>>>> distribution of preference, or exactly how you work.
>>>> Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh telnet aspect
>>>> truth be told.
>>>> In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I can drive the
>>>> car where I wish to go.
>>>> I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past few years.
>>>> Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head and heart
>>>> onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can understand.
>>>>  Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, I want to
>>>> play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc.,  that are in my head and
>>>> then
>>>>  get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet possibly.
>>>> How I imagine doing this, is with a quality   piano / keyboard that also has
>>>> several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for composition
>>>> only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am writing.
>>>> <Still awake?>
>>>> Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first hand Linux
>>>> experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful.
>>>> I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard  to the m-audio audiophile 2496 sound
>>>> card I have in mind,  using any one of the dozen or so tools for the command
>>>> line I am finding  are included in Debian, writing each part one at a time,
>>>> putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a composing
>>>> package, you referenced Lillypoind,  which is terrific, but  there are a couple
>>>> more.
>>>> I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side of my
>>>> desire.
>>>> The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, not a touch
>>>> screen one.
>>>> Granted I know some keyboards have  multi-track sequencers built in. Letting me
>>>> <I think?  compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the finished
>>>> product...strong emphasis on the  I think.
>>>> There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides the
>>>> traditional way  of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, so have pro
>>>> tools, a mac  a control surface etc. etc.
>>>> Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition  programs exist,
>>>> that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, but tap into
>>>> some sources for this.  There is no real program for composition  mac wise,
>>>> certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro tools setup.
>>>> The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a server, running
>>>> the commands  from  my main computer where I am already comfortable, both with
>>>> my speech synthesizer,  and in a small way  with the command line based on my
>>>> daily use of a comparative Linux shell.
>>>> Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more  current Linux
>>>> Kernels.  This is because the ability to use a hardware source for speech no
>>>> longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie.  Only software speech which for
>>>> me is out of the question.
>>>> One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but that. is. way!!!
>>>> beyond me laughs.
>>>> Is all this making more sense?
>>>> Will have those programs for you tomorrow.
>>>> Thanks for joining the adventure!
>>>> I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party.
>>>> Kare
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 14 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Karen,
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have very much experience with command line tools for music in
>>>>> GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring MIDI notes,
>>>>> making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by Rosegarden).
>>>>> But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in GNU/Linux over the
>>>>> past few years, and I use it for live performance and for composition and home
>>>>> recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some command line
>>>>> tools
>>>>> for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both musically, or
>>>>> with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some assistance. Very
>>>>> curious
>>>>> to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help!
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Blaise
>>>>>
>>>>> ps thanks for pinging me, Bob!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>>>>> Wow that must have been amazing.  The Linux audio list at yahoo groups is full
>>>>>> of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for their music
>>>>>> work, some of them are authors of packages included.
>>>>>> Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand.
>>>>>> Kare
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using Free
>>>>>> Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using
>>>>>> graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux part
>>>>>> covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical performance
>>>>>> tools too. I'll ping him with this message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his studio
>>>>>> equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for
>>>>>> GTALUG... :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Bob.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SFDToronto:
>>>>>> http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
>>>>>> SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
>>>>>> Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
>>>>>> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>>>>>>>> greetings everyone, My name is Karen.  I have only recently found
>>>>>>>>> this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional singer/
>>>>>>>>> songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I wish to
>>>>>>>>> make use of the varied console or command line based tools in Linux
>>>>>>>>> for my composition work, and if possible for accessing media
>>>>>>>>> materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of why my
>>>>>>>>> desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work with it
>>>>>>>>> directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools.  for example one
>>>>>>>>> sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496
>>>>>>>>> production card to which I will be attaching my music keyboard. In
>>>>>>>>> any case while I have some of the tools I require, and firm
>>>>>>>>> knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least not
>>>>>>>>> until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I can get the
>>>>>>>>> extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX based shell
>>>>>>>>> structures. I am using one at this moment  based in freedsb, to
>>>>>>>>> draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my nonprofit
>>>>>>>>> media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why I want
>>>>>>>>> to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box.  I would
>>>>>>>>> rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and learn
>>>>>>>>> more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at all. Let me
>>>>>>>>> be sure  my post is suitable before both asking and answering
>>>>>>>>> questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
>>>>>>>>>
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