[GTALUG] Seeking help with a unique Linux project?

Karen Lewellen klewellen at shellworld.net
Sat Dec 19 19:33:36 UTC 2015


Oh, I lost one of these.
Blaise asked if i already have my keyboard.
Long & Mcquade is open on Sunday going the season, so i am going to view 
a few tomorrow!
Thanks again,
Kare


On Sat, 19 Dec 2015, Karen Lewellen wrote:

> Hi Blaise,
> Again thanks for that terrific article link.
> I am wondering which of the two options presented  is likely to allow for the 
> greatest command line access?
> I am feeling avlinux, but that is just a feeling.
> The command line aspect is critical since  a graphical structure will not 
> work  with speech for me if I come in from the outside.
> I will cripple check that to be certain though.
> Thanks again,
> Karen
>
>
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
>
>>  I'll keep this on-list since people seem to be interested!
>>
>>  Libre Music Production has a good getting started guide on selecting a
>>  GNU/Linux
>>  distribution for pro audio:
>>  http://libremusicproduction.com/articles/advantages-choosing-audio-orientated-linux-distribution
>>
>>  That article recommends an audio distribution, because they have certain
>>  tweaks
>>  applied, like the low latency kernel selection, or changes to
>>  /etc/security/limits.conf with respect to the audio group, etc. Using an
>>  audio
>>  distribution, or the KXStudio repositories, handles much of that for you.
>>
>>  (But the KXStudio repositories don't include the kernel.)
>>
>>  In Ubuntu, there's a linux-lowlatency package. In Debian, I added the
>>  Liquorix
>>  repositories to get that low latency kernel.
>> 
>>
>>  That Libre Music Production article doesn't go into a lot of technical
>>  detail,
>>  but it explains:
>>  """
>>  Realtime audio performance is important to many when working with audio
>>  software. What this means in real terms is having the recorded signal
>>  played
>>  back through your playback system without any audible delay. This is
>>  important
>>  when monitoring your performance. Latency is inherent in computers but
>>  there are
>>  things that can be done to minimize it.
>>
>>  There are many tweaks, big and small, that Linux distros make under the
>>  hood
>>  that are beneficial to this and general audio performance. As an end user,
>>  you
>>  don't need to know the technical ins and outs of what these do. You just
>>  need to
>>  know that the end result is that audio processes are prioritized by the
>>  operating system, thus, allowing you to more easily achieve stable and/or
>>  low
>>  latency audio.
>>  """
>>
>>  There's more technical information on latency and audio production in the
>>  Ardour
>>  manual, but far more in depth than you really need to understand!
>>  http://manual.ardour.org/synchronization/latency-and-latency-compensation/
>> 
>>
>>  I've tried using the standard Debian Jessie kernel. With that on my
>>  machine, the
>>  best I can do without audio glitches (xruns) is about ~21ms latency. With
>>  liquorix, it's ~2ms.
>>
>>  If you're playing something slow or flowy, you might not even notice the
>>  difference. But if you're playing a series of fast notes, or something
>>  rhythmic
>>  or percussive, it's really disorienting to have that slight delay between
>>  pressing the keys on your keyboard and hearing the sound. It's often
>>  noticeable
>>  in normal music performance.
>>
>>  A low latency Linux kernel -- which is basically the standard Linux
>>  kernel, but
>>  with some changes around scheduling and deadlines -- just allows for a
>>  more
>>  natural feel for pro audio, where you can hear notice when you play them
>>  rather
>>  than with a slight delay.
>>
>>  Hope that helps...
>>
>>  Blaise
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  On 15/12/15 03:27 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> >  Hi Blaise,
>> >  one of two.
>> >  Thanks for the off list invitation!  I shall certainly write you, but at 
>> >  least
>> >  given another post, will keep some of this on list.
>> >  i am posting the  software options  in that reply.  still can you 
>> >  explain, or
>> >  can others give examples of low latency kernels?
>> >  What a fascinating idea.
>> >  More in a moment,
>> >  Kare
>> > 
>> > 
>> >  On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
>> > 
>> > >  Hi Karen,
>> > > 
>> > >  Thanks for the additional details!
>> > > 
>> > >  I'm Debian-based these days, with the KXStudio repositories for 
>> > >  current audio
>> > >  production software and a low latency liquorix kernel, though I'm also 
>> > >  still
>> > >  running Ubuntu Studio on my home desktop.
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > >  One thing that may be a challenge (for which others on the list might 
>> > >  have more
>> > >  knowledge) is your issue with speech in post-Squeeze Linux kernels. 
>> > >  For pro
>> > >  audio work, the standard Squeeze kernel isn't going to be great... you 
>> > >  want a
>> > >  low latency kernel if you want notes to play when you press them on a 
>> > >  MIDI
>> > >  keyboard, or to be able to play back audio from several instrument 
>> > >  sources at
>> > >  the same time reliably, nevermind to record any audio reliably.
>> > > 
>> > >  So I'm not sure how you solve that problem -- an older low latency 
>> > >  kernel
>> > >  perhaps, which supports your speech hardware requirements but also pro 
>> > >  audio?
>> > >  I'm not quite sure.
>> > > 
>> > >  (Also, are you using JACK yet? That may be another challenge with 
>> > >  speech
>> > >  software, though an ALSA or Pulseaudio bridge may do the trick.)
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > >  Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list? Feel free to 
>> > >  email me
>> > >  at blaise at apeironmusic.com.
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > >  Blaise
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > >  On 15/12/15 01:11 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> > > >  Hello Blaise,
>> > > >  Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can 
>> > > >  provide.
>> > > >  I honestly admit  to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one 
>> > > >  can only
>> > > >  perform  live with well other live people smiles.
>> > > >  So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious 
>> > > >  as well.
>> > > >  As for command line music making  tools, there are actually rather a 
>> > > >  few I  am
>> > > >  learning.  I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet 
>> > > >  your
>> > > >  distribution of preference, or exactly how you work.
>> > > >  Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh 
>> > > >  telnet aspect
>> > > >  truth be told.
>> > > >  In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I 
>> > > >  can drive the
>> > > >  car where I wish to go.
>> > > >  I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past 
>> > > >  few years.
>> > > >  Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head 
>> > > >  and heart
>> > > >  onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can 
>> > > >  understand.
>> > > >   Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics, 
>> > > >   I want to
>> > > >  play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc.,  that are in my 
>> > > >  head and
>> > > >  then
>> > > >   get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet 
>> > > >   possibly.
>> > > >  How I imagine doing this, is with a quality   piano / keyboard that 
>> > > >  also has
>> > > >  several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for 
>> > > >  composition
>> > > >  only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am 
>> > > >  writing.
>> > > >  <Still awake?>
>> > > >  Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first 
>> > > >  hand Linux
>> > > >  experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful.
>> > > >  I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard  to the m-audio 
>> > > >  audiophile 2496 sound
>> > > >  card I have in mind,  using any one of the dozen or so tools for the 
>> > > >  command
>> > > >  line I am finding  are included in Debian, writing each part one at 
>> > > >  a time,
>> > > >  putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a 
>> > > >  composing
>> > > >  package, you referenced Lillypoind,  which is terrific, but  there 
>> > > >  are a couple
>> > > >  more.
>> > > >  I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side 
>> > > >  of my
>> > > >  desire.
>> > > >  The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl, 
>> > > >  not a touch
>> > > >  screen one.
>> > > >  Granted I know some keyboards have  multi-track sequencers built in. 
>> > > >  Letting me
>> > > >  <I think?  compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the 
>> > > >  finished
>> > > >  product...strong emphasis on the  I think.
>> > > >  There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides 
>> > > >  the
>> > > >  traditional way  of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too, 
>> > > >  so have pro
>> > > >  tools, a mac  a control surface etc. etc.
>> > > >  Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition 
>> > > >  programs exist,
>> > > >  that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me, 
>> > > >  but tap into
>> > > >  some sources for this.  There is no real program for composition 
>> > > >  mac wise,
>> > > >  certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro 
>> > > >  tools setup.
>> > > >  The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a 
>> > > >  server, running
>> > > >  the commands  from  my main computer where I am already comfortable, 
>> > > >  both with
>> > > >  my speech synthesizer,  and in a small way  with the command line 
>> > > >  based on my
>> > > >  daily use of a comparative Linux shell.
>> > > >  Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more  current 
>> > > >  Linux
>> > > >  Kernels.  This is because the ability to use a hardware source for 
>> > > >  speech no
>> > > >  longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie.  Only software speech 
>> > > >  which for
>> > > >  me is out of the question.
>> > > >  One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but 
>> > > >  that. is. way!!!
>> > > >  beyond me laughs.
>> > > >  Is all this making more sense?
>> > > >  Will have those programs for you tomorrow.
>> > > >  Thanks for joining the adventure!
>> > > >  I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party.
>> > > >  Kare
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > >  On Mon, 14 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
>> > > > 
>> > > > >  Hi Karen,
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >  I don't have very much experience with command line tools for 
>> > > > >  music in
>> > > > >  GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring 
>> > > > >  MIDI notes,
>> > > > >  making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by 
>> > > > >  Rosegarden).
>> > > > >  But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in 
>> > > > >  GNU/Linux over the
>> > > > >  past few years, and I use it for live performance and for 
>> > > > >  composition and home
>> > > > >  recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some 
>> > > > >  command line
>> > > > >  tools
>> > > > >  for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >  I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both 
>> > > > >  musically, or
>> > > > >  with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some 
>> > > > >  assistance. Very
>> > > > >  curious
>> > > > >  to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help!
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >  Regards,
>> > > > >  Blaise
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >  ps thanks for pinging me, Bob!
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >  On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> > > > > >  Wow that must have been amazing.  The Linux audio list at yahoo 
>> > > > > >  groups is full
>> > > > > >  of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for 
>> > > > > >  their music
>> > > > > >  work, some of them are authors of packages included.
>> > > > > >  Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand.
>> > > > > >  Kare
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >  On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote:
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >  At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using 
>> > > > > >  Free
>> > > > > >  Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using
>> > > > > >  graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux 
>> > > > > >  part
>> > > > > >  covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical 
>> > > > > >  performance
>> > > > > >  tools too. I'll ping him with this message.
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >  I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his 
>> > > > > >  studio
>> > > > > >  equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for
>> > > > > >  GTALUG... :)
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >  --Bob.
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >  SFDToronto:
>> > > > > >  http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >  Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
>> > > > > >  SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
>> > > > > >  Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
>> > > > > >  GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >  On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >  greetings everyone, My name is Karen.  I have only 
>> > > > > > > > >  recently found
>> > > > > > > > >  this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional 
>> > > > > > > > >  singer/
>> > > > > > > > >  songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I 
>> > > > > > > > >  wish to
>> > > > > > > > >  make use of the varied console or command line based tools 
>> > > > > > > > >  in Linux
>> > > > > > > > >  for my composition work, and if possible for accessing 
>> > > > > > > > >  media
>> > > > > > > > >  materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of 
>> > > > > > > > >  why my
>> > > > > > > > >  desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work 
>> > > > > > > > >  with it
>> > > > > > > > >  directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools.  for 
>> > > > > > > > >  example one
>> > > > > > > > >  sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496
>> > > > > > > > >  production card to which I will be attaching my music 
>> > > > > > > > >  keyboard. In
>> > > > > > > > >  any case while I have some of the tools I require, and 
>> > > > > > > > >  firm
>> > > > > > > > >  knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least 
>> > > > > > > > >  not
>> > > > > > > > >  until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I 
>> > > > > > > > >  can get the
>> > > > > > > > >  extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX 
>> > > > > > > > >  based shell
>> > > > > > > > >  structures. I am using one at this moment  based in 
>> > > > > > > > >  freedsb, to
>> > > > > > > > >  draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my 
>> > > > > > > > >  nonprofit
>> > > > > > > > >  media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why 
>> > > > > > > > >  I want
>> > > > > > > > >  to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box.  I 
>> > > > > > > > >  would
>> > > > > > > > >  rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and 
>> > > > > > > > >  learn
>> > > > > > > > >  more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at 
>> > > > > > > > >  all. Let me
>> > > > > > > > >  be sure  my post is suitable before both asking and 
>> > > > > > > > >  answering
>> > > > > > > > >  questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
>> > > > > > > > > 
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