[GTALUG] Seeking help with a unique Linux project?
Karen Lewellen
klewellen at shellworld.net
Sat Dec 19 19:33:36 UTC 2015
Oh, I lost one of these.
Blaise asked if i already have my keyboard.
Long & Mcquade is open on Sunday going the season, so i am going to view
a few tomorrow!
Thanks again,
Kare
On Sat, 19 Dec 2015, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Hi Blaise,
> Again thanks for that terrific article link.
> I am wondering which of the two options presented is likely to allow for the
> greatest command line access?
> I am feeling avlinux, but that is just a feeling.
> The command line aspect is critical since a graphical structure will not
> work with speech for me if I come in from the outside.
> I will cripple check that to be certain though.
> Thanks again,
> Karen
>
>
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
>
>> I'll keep this on-list since people seem to be interested!
>>
>> Libre Music Production has a good getting started guide on selecting a
>> GNU/Linux
>> distribution for pro audio:
>> http://libremusicproduction.com/articles/advantages-choosing-audio-orientated-linux-distribution
>>
>> That article recommends an audio distribution, because they have certain
>> tweaks
>> applied, like the low latency kernel selection, or changes to
>> /etc/security/limits.conf with respect to the audio group, etc. Using an
>> audio
>> distribution, or the KXStudio repositories, handles much of that for you.
>>
>> (But the KXStudio repositories don't include the kernel.)
>>
>> In Ubuntu, there's a linux-lowlatency package. In Debian, I added the
>> Liquorix
>> repositories to get that low latency kernel.
>>
>>
>> That Libre Music Production article doesn't go into a lot of technical
>> detail,
>> but it explains:
>> """
>> Realtime audio performance is important to many when working with audio
>> software. What this means in real terms is having the recorded signal
>> played
>> back through your playback system without any audible delay. This is
>> important
>> when monitoring your performance. Latency is inherent in computers but
>> there are
>> things that can be done to minimize it.
>>
>> There are many tweaks, big and small, that Linux distros make under the
>> hood
>> that are beneficial to this and general audio performance. As an end user,
>> you
>> don't need to know the technical ins and outs of what these do. You just
>> need to
>> know that the end result is that audio processes are prioritized by the
>> operating system, thus, allowing you to more easily achieve stable and/or
>> low
>> latency audio.
>> """
>>
>> There's more technical information on latency and audio production in the
>> Ardour
>> manual, but far more in depth than you really need to understand!
>> http://manual.ardour.org/synchronization/latency-and-latency-compensation/
>>
>>
>> I've tried using the standard Debian Jessie kernel. With that on my
>> machine, the
>> best I can do without audio glitches (xruns) is about ~21ms latency. With
>> liquorix, it's ~2ms.
>>
>> If you're playing something slow or flowy, you might not even notice the
>> difference. But if you're playing a series of fast notes, or something
>> rhythmic
>> or percussive, it's really disorienting to have that slight delay between
>> pressing the keys on your keyboard and hearing the sound. It's often
>> noticeable
>> in normal music performance.
>>
>> A low latency Linux kernel -- which is basically the standard Linux
>> kernel, but
>> with some changes around scheduling and deadlines -- just allows for a
>> more
>> natural feel for pro audio, where you can hear notice when you play them
>> rather
>> than with a slight delay.
>>
>> Hope that helps...
>>
>> Blaise
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15/12/15 03:27 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> > Hi Blaise,
>> > one of two.
>> > Thanks for the off list invitation! I shall certainly write you, but at
>> > least
>> > given another post, will keep some of this on list.
>> > i am posting the software options in that reply. still can you
>> > explain, or
>> > can others give examples of low latency kernels?
>> > What a fascinating idea.
>> > More in a moment,
>> > Kare
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Karen,
>> > >
>> > > Thanks for the additional details!
>> > >
>> > > I'm Debian-based these days, with the KXStudio repositories for
>> > > current audio
>> > > production software and a low latency liquorix kernel, though I'm also
>> > > still
>> > > running Ubuntu Studio on my home desktop.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > One thing that may be a challenge (for which others on the list might
>> > > have more
>> > > knowledge) is your issue with speech in post-Squeeze Linux kernels.
>> > > For pro
>> > > audio work, the standard Squeeze kernel isn't going to be great... you
>> > > want a
>> > > low latency kernel if you want notes to play when you press them on a
>> > > MIDI
>> > > keyboard, or to be able to play back audio from several instrument
>> > > sources at
>> > > the same time reliably, nevermind to record any audio reliably.
>> > >
>> > > So I'm not sure how you solve that problem -- an older low latency
>> > > kernel
>> > > perhaps, which supports your speech hardware requirements but also pro
>> > > audio?
>> > > I'm not quite sure.
>> > >
>> > > (Also, are you using JACK yet? That may be another challenge with
>> > > speech
>> > > software, though an ALSA or Pulseaudio bridge may do the trick.)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Beyond that, maybe best to take the discussion off-list? Feel free to
>> > > email me
>> > > at blaise at apeironmusic.com.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Blaise
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 15/12/15 01:11 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> > > > Hello Blaise,
>> > > > Thanks so very much in advance for the wisdom I feel sure you can
>> > > > provide.
>> > > > I honestly admit to being a touch of a singer snob who imagines one
>> > > > can only
>> > > > perform live with well other live people smiles.
>> > > > So when Bob wrote of your creating, I confess I got rather curious
>> > > > as well.
>> > > > As for command line music making tools, there are actually rather a
>> > > > few I am
>> > > > learning. I am compiling a list with links, since I do not know yet
>> > > > your
>> > > > distribution of preference, or exactly how you work.
>> > > > Articulating my desires musically may make more sense than the ssh
>> > > > telnet aspect
>> > > > truth be told.
>> > > > In all honesty however, I cannot say with hands on firmness that I
>> > > > can drive the
>> > > > car where I wish to go.
>> > > > I was more of a singer / arranger than a songwriter until the past
>> > > > few years.
>> > > > Now I have all this music I desire moving from the studio in my head
>> > > > and heart
>> > > > onto sheet music, into performing form, as I am sure you can
>> > > > understand.
>> > > > Since I am writing full arrangements, all the parts with my lyrics,
>> > > > I want to
>> > > > play all of the parts, piano, strings, guitar etc., that are in my
>> > > > head and
>> > > > then
>> > > > get the completed work into sheet certainly both audio and sheet
>> > > > possibly.
>> > > > How I imagine doing this, is with a quality piano / keyboard that
>> > > > also has
>> > > > several additional instrument options to simulate sound wise for
>> > > > composition
>> > > > only for now at least, the other instrument's for which I am
>> > > > writing.
>> > > > <Still awake?>
>> > > > Now, this is where my visual memory, blended with my lack of first
>> > > > hand Linux
>> > > > experience starts to get a bit...well hopeful.
>> > > > I imagine connecting said piano / keyboard to the m-audio
>> > > > audiophile 2496 sound
>> > > > card I have in mind, using any one of the dozen or so tools for the
>> > > > command
>> > > > line I am finding are included in Debian, writing each part one at
>> > > > a time,
>> > > > putting the piece together, and transferring the completed work to a
>> > > > composing
>> > > > package, you referenced Lillypoind, which is terrific, but there
>> > > > are a couple
>> > > > more.
>> > > > I am hunting the instrument along with the talent for the Linux side
>> > > > of my
>> > > > desire.
>> > > > The older the better in a way, I tend to be a buttons kind of girl,
>> > > > not a touch
>> > > > screen one.
>> > > > Granted I know some keyboards have multi-track sequencers built in.
>> > > > Letting me
>> > > > <I think? compose entirely on said keyboard and transfer the
>> > > > finished
>> > > > product...strong emphasis on the I think.
>> > > > There may be another way that I have not considered, I mean besides
>> > > > the
>> > > > traditional way of doing the recording, I am a radio producer too,
>> > > > so have pro
>> > > > tools, a mac a control surface etc. etc.
>> > > > Still I would rather use Linux because I know the composition
>> > > > programs exist,
>> > > > that i may be able to script in Linux some of what I need...not me,
>> > > > but tap into
>> > > > some sources for this. There is no real program for composition
>> > > > mac wise,
>> > > > certainly not going back to the edition I am using to run my pro
>> > > > tools setup.
>> > > > The ssh-telnet aspect simply lets me treat the Linux box like a
>> > > > server, running
>> > > > the commands from my main computer where I am already comfortable,
>> > > > both with
>> > > > my speech synthesizer, and in a small way with the command line
>> > > > based on my
>> > > > daily use of a comparative Linux shell.
>> > > > Oh that reminds me, I spoke of issues with speech in more current
>> > > > Linux
>> > > > Kernels. This is because the ability to use a hardware source for
>> > > > speech no
>> > > > longer exists in the new ones, like in Jessie. Only software speech
>> > > > which for
>> > > > me is out of the question.
>> > > > One can compile the new distribution with the older Kennel, but
>> > > > that. is. way!!!
>> > > > beyond me laughs.
>> > > > Is all this making more sense?
>> > > > Will have those programs for you tomorrow.
>> > > > Thanks for joining the adventure!
>> > > > I likewise thank you Bob for inviting Blaise to the party.
>> > > > Kare
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Mon, 14 Dec 2015, Blaise Alleyne wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Hi Karen,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I don't have very much experience with command line tools for
>> > > > > music in
>> > > > > GNU/Linux, barring some pretty simple uses (encoding, monitoring
>> > > > > MIDI notes,
>> > > > > making minor edits to sheet music typeset in Lilypond generated by
>> > > > > Rosegarden).
>> > > > > But I have taken a head-first dive into audio production in
>> > > > > GNU/Linux over the
>> > > > > past few years, and I use it for live performance and for
>> > > > > composition and home
>> > > > > recording. I'd also be personally interested in at least some
>> > > > > command line
>> > > > > tools
>> > > > > for doing some of the things I currently do in GUIs.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I don't think I fully understand what you're trying to do (both
>> > > > > musically, or
>> > > > > with the SSH component), but hopefully I can be of some
>> > > > > assistance. Very
>> > > > > curious
>> > > > > to learn more about what you're hoping to do in case I can help!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Regards,
>> > > > > Blaise
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ps thanks for pinging me, Bob!
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On 11/12/15 06:38 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> > > > > > Wow that must have been amazing. The Linux audio list at yahoo
>> > > > > > groups is full
>> > > > > > of people mostly in Europe who use command line Linux tools for
>> > > > > > their music
>> > > > > > work, some of them are authors of packages included.
>> > > > > > Still it would be fun to witness it firsthand.
>> > > > > > Kare
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Bob Jonkman wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > At Software Freedom Day we had a great presentation on using
>> > > > > > Free
>> > > > > > Software for Musical Performance by Blaise Alleyne. He was using
>> > > > > > graphical tools for his performance, but has the Music-On-Linux
>> > > > > > part
>> > > > > > covered. He may have expertise in command-line musical
>> > > > > > performance
>> > > > > > tools too. I'll ping him with this message.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I wonder what it would take to convince Blaise to haul his
>> > > > > > studio
>> > > > > > equipment up to the room at Ryerson to do his presentation for
>> > > > > > GTALUG... :)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --Bob.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > SFDToronto:
>> > > > > > http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2015/Canada/Toronto/LibrePlanet
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413
>> > > > > > SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/
>> > > > > > Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting
>> > > > > > GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On 10/12/15 07:17 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > greetings everyone, My name is Karen. I have only
>> > > > > > > > > recently found
>> > > > > > > > > this LUG, and joined the talk list. I am a professional
>> > > > > > > > > singer/
>> > > > > > > > > songwriter and media producer with a unique Linux goal. I
>> > > > > > > > > wish to
>> > > > > > > > > make use of the varied console or command line based tools
>> > > > > > > > > in Linux
>> > > > > > > > > for my composition work, and if possible for accessing
>> > > > > > > > > media
>> > > > > > > > > materials too. I use adaptive technology, which is part of
>> > > > > > > > > why my
>> > > > > > > > > desire is to ssh telnet into my Linux box rather than work
>> > > > > > > > > with it
>> > > > > > > > > directly. I tend to prefer more traditional tools. for
>> > > > > > > > > example one
>> > > > > > > > > sound card in this box will be an m-audio audiofile 2496
>> > > > > > > > > production card to which I will be attaching my music
>> > > > > > > > > keyboard. In
>> > > > > > > > > any case while I have some of the tools I require, and
>> > > > > > > > > firm
>> > > > > > > > > knowledge that my goals are possible. I have not, at least
>> > > > > > > > > not
>> > > > > > > > > until now, found a Linux users group in Toronto where I
>> > > > > > > > > can get the
>> > > > > > > > > extra wisdom required. I am very used to Linux and UNIX
>> > > > > > > > > based shell
>> > > > > > > > > structures. I am using one at this moment based in
>> > > > > > > > > freedsb, to
>> > > > > > > > > draft my email, and use another based in Ubuntu for my
>> > > > > > > > > nonprofit
>> > > > > > > > > media newsroom's hosting account. Such is also part of why
>> > > > > > > > > I want
>> > > > > > > > > to start with a comparative way to use my Linux box. I
>> > > > > > > > > would
>> > > > > > > > > rather begin with a foundation where I can make use of and
>> > > > > > > > > learn
>> > > > > > > > > more right away, than fail to use the Linux box well at
>> > > > > > > > > all. Let me
>> > > > > > > > > be sure my post is suitable before both asking and
>> > > > > > > > > answering
>> > > > > > > > > questions. Thanks in advance, Karen
>> > > > > > > > >
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