Semi-OT: Why Kids Can't use Computers

[Marc Lijour]

Don't get bogged down with specific expectations. The spirit of the 
curriculum is to get something done (action) in a fun way that allows 
students to learn something about programming (theory and practice).

There is no silver bullet. Some faculty dislike programming classes in 
high school so they do their best to teach CS from scratch. The idea in 
high school is not to get students to become experts, but to focus on 
something they can truly learn and to allow them to develop a love and 
an objective appreciation of computer science.

Computer science is also is terrific tool to teach other disciplines. 
Check this Google Engineer experience of Computer Science in Vietnam: 
https://neil.fraser.name/news/2013/03/16/

On Wed 14 Aug 2013 01:01:08 AM EDT, Paul King wrote:
> I can't speak for "bad teachers", since I have really been teaching senior
> math and qualified to teach both subject areas. Our school has never offered
> comp sci, being too small. In my experience there is a lot of student
> romanticism that precedes entry to computer science for the first time.
> There are people who want to write a killer Flash app first time out, and
> become dismayed when they find to their horror that it means learning
> ActionScript and going through a lot of OOP concepts, and that we should
> probably start with something easier to think about while covering some
> basic stuff like "if" statements and looping. And maybe even a function or
> two.
>
> Choices for a first teaching language vary wildly among teachers and
> institutions. I still recommend something procedural like Turing or Lazarus,
> but most teachers these days, afraid of losing students will surrender to
> Visual Basic, even though the latter is costly, but can arguably be massaged
> into a grade 10 teaching language (.NET is a little more iffy in Grade 10,
> IMO). I dislike their choice, but I understand that this is the common
> wisdom, due to pressure from administrators to keep the numbers of
> interested students up in their classrooms. Just the simple fact that VB has
> more cachet with students than Turing or Lazarus, even with its VB-like RAD
> GUI, is enough reason to reject such teaching languages.
>
> Python has been suggested (and is the first language taught in many
> universities to those who are raw beginners), but IMO it plays too fast and
> loose with data types. Since knowing data types is taught in grade 10 for
> the first time, it wouldn't be a good idea to expect students to understand,
> let alone trace errors, in such code. The only way to go here and stick
> honestly to the Ministry objectives is to select a language that uses strict
> typing. Hence, my choices from the Pascal family. Languages like C, C++, and
> Python can be taught in Grade 11 or 12 once the basics are out of the way.
>
> I guess that the real problem here is that, while there are good and bad
> teachers in all subjects, computer science teaching is influenced by admin
> expectations that numbers of students have to be up to a certain level each
> September, student expectations that don't match the realities of the
> course, and the teacher's choice of teaching language (admin pressure to
> "keep numbers up" for class funding goes back to Mike Harris and the funding
> formula, which still prevails).
>
> Paul King
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart
>> Sorensen
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 1:54 PM
>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Semi-OT: Why Kids Can't use Computers
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:00:04PM -0400, James Knott wrote:
>>> Way back when I was in grade 12, I took a Fortran class that was
>>> taught by a math teacher.  It soon became apparent he didn't know
>> much
>>> more about it than we did.
>>
>> Well some people are bad teachers.
>>
>> It does seem that highschools don't generally have much luck attracting
>> teachers that actually know how to teach programming.  At least I
>> haven't encountered any yet.  I suspect most of those that could teach
>> programming are either teaching at college or university, or actually
>> programming for a living instead.
>>
>> --
>> Len Sorensen
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