Ubuntu first time

[Alejandro Imass]

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Lennart Sorensen
<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:51:15AM -0500, Alejandro Imass wrote:
>> I think this is a very  myopic statement and shows that the Linux
>> crowd needs to get out more, especially so in the Debian crowd.
>>
[...]

> Linux's overly optimistic VM can be made not optimistic at all.
>

Yeah set it to ==2, been there, done that. And then you get no memory
for doing almost anything. Try running Apache that way. Try it, and
_then_ tell me it's a viable option for the vm.

That doesn't cut it for a modern OS, you need some optimism but you
also need to deal with peak loads and Linux does not. At least not in
2.6

[...]

> Sometimes you do add features to the kernel and then the system libraries
> have to be updated before you can use it.  As long as your library
> interface is well designed, this doesn't force you to update any
> applications, they just won't have any way to use the new feature until
> they are updated.
>

This is *totally* unprecise because in Linux they both live
practically in the same directories. Go ahead and upgrade libc or even
gcc. There is no separation between system and applications in Linux.
In *BSD even the compiler is specific to the base system, so they are
completely separated. Why doesn't any Linux distro follow this beats
me, but it should.

[...]

> I hate the ports system.  It is what I think is wrong with Gentoo too.
> Why the heck should every person be grabbing things from source when
> the same binary could have been generated once already.  It is inefficient
> waste of resources.  Compiling from source should be a last resort,
> not the norm.
>

Yeah but you forget to mention that *BSD offers binary packages as
well and these derive directly from ports. They both hit the same
database so you can install from ports, and delete via package
commands and vice-versa. Even CPAN in FBSD registers to the same
packages DB so everything is in sync. Oh that's another problem in
Debian I forgot to mention "the Debian Perl policiy".

> Debian tries to avoid modifying packages when possible, but meeting the
> FHS is a requirement and sometimes requries modifying the package if
> upstream's makefiles are that badly done.  Sometimes there are bugs to
> fix and while waiting for upstream would be nice, sometimes that can
> take a long time.  They do try to get the patches accepted upstream
> though.


Hmm, really? To mee it seems the other way around, or at minimum it
goes both ways. As a simple example, how long does it take for Debian
to incorporate a new Sane scanner driver? AGES! It's not uncommon for
upstream developers to complain on how it takes for upgrades to reach
the Debian repos, so the overall feeling *out there* is the _opposite_
of what you are conveying.

[...]

>
> Once upon a time there was a system to allow Linux to run BSD binaries.
> Back then BSD was relevant and hence that was useful.  Now it is the
> other way around.
>

Hmm, I think you are confused with Linuxator which allows native Linux
code to run on FBSD. If FreeBSD is so outdated, why does it still run
over 50% of the Web?

http://freebsdfoundation.blogspot.com/2011/12/apache-software-foundation-testimonial.html
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2011/
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2011/03/01/most-reliable-hosting-company-sites-in-february-2011.html

> I did see recently that one of the BSDs now supports 64cpu machines.
> I wonder if they have heard of USB 3 yet.  I know Linux handles 4096
> CPUs these days and has for a few years.
>

It's about solving _real_ problems not imaginary ones. Anyway, the
point of all this is not to start a FBSD vs. Linux flame, it's to
point out that you can't just be throwing FUD all over the place
without asserting the facts. Especially when you are going to create
FUD on other Open Source projects.

Just to be clear, I *love* Linux, for some things at least. But I
*love* FreeBSD and other Open Source as well, not just Free Software.

Man, more and more I get to understand the saying "Linux is for people
that hate Windows and FreeBSD is for people that love Unix". Though,
lately it seems that Debian GNU/Linux is for people that hate anything
else!

-- 
Alejandro Imass
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