Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much

[Russell Reiter]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Ori Idan <ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I think this argument is not the topic of the list.
> If you Russell have any problems with Lennart, I think it would be better if
> you solve them between you.
> I am not saying that Lennart is right or that you are right. I only say that
> I think this issue should be solved off list.

I didn't have any problem with Lennart till he started hammering on me
about something he did not fully understand, nor care to help with in
the first place. He did not respond in order to help, yet he responded
eleven times to criticize. He didn't respond privately, he responded
on the list.

Lennart presumed to tell me that I was pretending I was smarter than
the udev maintainer. The subtext of that is that he is at least as
smart as the maintainer and I am not. He selectively snipped my posts,
which obfuscated the content of the thread. I don't claim to be smart.
I claim experience and a certain plodding ability to solve problems
related to the linux operating system.

I started using linux around 1995 when I could afford to buy my first
computer and I'v had to adapt and change a lot in order to keep
functional. When I need help understanding a problem I ask for that
help. When I ask for help in helping someone else, it's nice if this
list is helpful. Lennart was not being nice nor helpful.

Help I appreciate. Someone posting message after message in order to
make themselves appear expert in something where they are not, in this
case LSB init, hijacks the thread and obfuscates the learning process
I engage myself in.


>
> --
> Ori Idan
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Russell Reiter <rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 1:47 AM, Ivan Avery Frey
>> <ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> > On 29/10/11 11:17, Russell Reiter wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Lennart, I don't know what it is about me that brings out the troll in
>> >> otherwise apparantly normal people. But there it is. When someone
>> >> bangs on me as hard as you did, I have to defend my position and that
>> >> position is, I quote you here:
>> >>
>> >> "In other words, don't take advice from people that don't know what
>> >> they
>> >> are doing, ..."
>> >>
>> >> Well Lennart that's your opinion, here's mine.
>> >>
>> >> You had little desire to assist with the problem, until someone
>> >> thanked me for posting my experience. Then you tried to use your
>> >> belief in your own superior knowledge to belittle the solution, which
>> >> in fact was not my solution but simply a solution provided by someone
>> >> else experiencing the same difficulties.
>> >>
>> >> If you notice, what I did was not exactly the same as what was posted.
>> >> Not that it matters, or does it? You tell me you're the theorist, I'm
>> >> a system's integrator.  You have to remember who I am in all this, I
>> >> was helping the system operator restore functionality.
>> >>
>> >> Debian developers started using Dependency Based Boot around 2009.
>> >> Squeeze is the first to use it as default in a product release. It is
>> >> to deal with the fact the kernel is becoming more event driven. I
>> >> won't bore you with the abstract details of the transitional problems
>> >> of migration, even in respect of moving a temporary virtual file
>> >> system to a static one because you should know all this. However, you
>> >> apparantly don't care enough about the problem. Instead you try and
>> >> piss all over me when I asked a sincere question.
>> >>
>> >> What you didn't know, before you tried to pick on me, was where the
>> >> problem was sourced, yet you pretended you did and worse, you assumed
>> >> that I didn't.
>> >>
>> >> Here's some background on how Debian maintainers are dealing with
>> >> event driven kernels, which is what this is really all about.
>> >>
>> >> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/03/msg02640.html
>> >>
>> >> When I first joined this list there were about sixty users sharing
>> >> their experiences with integrating this OS into more mainstream use.
>> >>
>> >> I do my small bit to help users adapt. Much in the same way that my
>> >> old friend Jan Carlson did. One day I asked him why he sold me a cd
>> >> with Red Hat on it for five bucks at a TLUG meeting and then gave me
>> >> two thousand dollars worth of telephone support?
>> >>
>> >> He said "I'm just an old Unix fart. Besides I"m beta testing for them
>> >> and I like to keep my hand in."
>> >>
>> >> Thanks Jan, god bless you.
>> >>
>> >> Lennart, wise up.
>> >
>> > I have to say both you and Lennart appeared to be talking past each
>> > other.
>> > In a normal boot process does the os pass through runlevel 2?
>> >
>> > Because if it does then the fact that udev gets started in rc.S (typo?)
>> > and
>> > killed in runlevel 2 but you still have udev running is a mystery to me
>> > also.
>> >
>> > At the very least what Lennart is trying to warn you about is that when
>> > you
>> > switch to runlevel 2, the K script is supposed to stop udev. Scripts
>> > beginning with K are kill scripts.
>>
>> Lennart wasn't trying to warn me about anything he was trying to self
>> aggrandize. He didn't understand the problem, he presumed syvinit,
>> even though Debian is now using Dependency Based Boot. Most
>> importantly he did not try to help in the first place, he just
>> criticized without knowledge or understanding. He was not trying to
>> help he was trying to put down. There is a big difference.
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Ivan.
>> > --
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