related to a legal Internet problem

[Christopher Browne]

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> | From: Zbigniew Koziol <softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
>
> | This is a sort of question related to legal Internet problem.
>
> It is likely that any law that is being applied is not
> internet-related.  Countries generally haven't built a large suite of
> laws specific to the internet because:
>
> - its a lot of work
>
> - it should not be needed
>
> - it would seem arbitrary to single out a medium in most cases
>
> What often happens is that old laws are applied by analogy.  Since the
> analogies are often inexact, there can be a lot of arguing.

Indeed.  Any time someone says, "There otta be a law!", I wonder if
there isn't something already in place that is not presently being
enforced.  And further, if the existing law isn't enforced, I wonder
in what fantasy world the *new* law would be any more vigorously
enforced than the ones being ignored by the authorities.

> My guess (note: guess) is that what is happening is based on a mixture
> of copyright and contract law.  Or it is based on made-up stuff (i.e.
> legal nonsense).

I'd expect "legal nonsense" to go quite a long ways, in such matters.
Domestically, there have been rather a lot of things published that
are misleading at best.  I recall the "Domain Registry of Canada"
one...  <http://www.consumerfraudreporting.org/domainnamescams2.htm>

> I imagine few of us know Polish or EU law which would govern this
> issue.  Most of our intuitions about copyright law are based on US
> law, not even Canadian.  The US has a somewhat peculiar copyright
> regime.

They might want to Mirandize you :-).  (Which is something unique to
US *criminal* law!)

> | Now, when I searched for a something in the past (a book, I guess, but I do
> | not remember exactly, for what) I filled in an online form. I possibly did use
> | their service to download something, but that I can not be certain.
>
> Do you have any idea what that form looked like?  Do you think that it
> could be interpreted as a contract?  Does that matter in Polish or EU
> law?
>
> | According to their interpretation, I am supposed to pay them now for their
> | service.
>
> Ask them under what right they are demanding payment.  It should be up
> to them to backstop their claim.  Asking should be showing good faith
> on your part.

Demanding specific evidence seems like a fine idea.  Were it to be a
real transaction, they should surely be able to document the details
of it.

But it might well be a scam where the perpetrator is trying to scare
or confuse people into paying.  They can make money even at rather low
success rates.

The one I find regularly hilarious is the "Who's Who Registry" thing
that gets sent out to GTALUG a couple times per year.  Apparently it's
a result of our having exhibited at IT360, once upon a time.  They
invite us to register for their "Who's Who of I.T. registry," where
the fine print indicates the "low, low price" of about $1600 USD.
($1587 seems familiar.)  Adding to amusement is that it could be
"$1587 USD, or the equivalent in Mexican Pesos."

They're clearly hoping that someone in the bureaucracy won't read
closely, and will send back a "request for subscription," at which
point they can start sending out nasty collection notices.

There's a similar well-known one where fraudsters send out "invoices"
that look a lot like phone company "Yellow Pages" bills and/or
applications.

I would be entirely unsurprised if the situation Zbigniew describes is
similar to these sorts of deceptions.  For many of these kinds of
deceptions, responding to the claim is a big mistake, as it draws
their attention.  Drawing the attention of scoundrels that are out to
deceive is never a good direction to take.

The best idea I can think of, if one *does* wish to respond to such,
is to respond with as little information as possible, and request
proper documentation of the services claimed to have been rendered.
If they're for real, then they should be able to document things quite
well.  If they fabricate responses, that's a pretty good indication of
their lack of good intentions.
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