(poll) What kind of meeting do you want?

[Pavel Zaitsev]

Paul Mora wrote:

>On 4/21/05, William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>  
>
>>One recurring theme during Linux World Trade Show was "What does TLUG do
>>for me?"  This was a difficult question to answer.  There are things
>>that TLUG does, of course, such as
>>    - presentation by speaker
>>    - beer
>>    - Q&A during the meeting and on mailing list
>>    
>>
>
>There, that wasn't so difficult to answer, was it? ;-)  All provided
>free of charge (except for the beer), by people volunteering their
>time and knowledge.
>
>  
>
>>But, definitely, not worth $20 membership.  People truly don't give
>>shit about the laundry list of expenses.  "Your expense is your
>>business.  What do I get for $20?" is people's bottom line.
>>    
>>
>
>As it rightly should be.  People want to see some return on their
>investment, on their dollar.  Currently, the investment is time, the
>time we take to go to the meetings, listen to the speaker, and learn
>something new.  Maybe that will lead to them being a speaker, or
>contributing in some other way.
>
>What expenses are there on the normal TLUG meetings?  The facilities
>are free, and the speakers are volunteers.  Where are the costs?
>  
>
We do not have the facility for free at this time. Currently we
are trying rectify our much less then legal status. Incidentals,
if you have read for the power at the show must be paid out
of the pocket. There is no return on investment.

>I don't agree with your statement about people not caring about
>expenese.  I feel that they just don't know where the money is going. 
>If you actually had a plan , a "business case" if you will, that
>outlines what this membership money is going for, and people can
>readily see it, then I think you wouldn't have a problem with people
>paying a membership fee for TLUG.  The problem is that there is no
>plan, at least, none that has been communicated to the TLUG members so
>far.  And by members, I mean the only real list of people who
>participate in TLUG, this mailing list.
>  
>
That is going to be ironed out within 2-3 weeks, as the turn out
at the show was great we can now plan for things that *DO* cost
in Toronto, which are free everywhere else in Canada. Like rooms
for meetings, usage of parks for group picnics. Unfortunately
Toronto as a whole is not liberal with money, because in some
part its culture and in some its city lack of money(as I was
explained). So things cost in this city... If you wish to provide
sufficent space accessible to TLUG members, be our guest.

>For example, the membership form states that there is a
>"Constitution", and that by becoming a member, one has to abide by it.
> But every time I ask someone about it, where can I get a copy of it
>to read, I either get the "I dunno" shrug, or a "yeah, that's a good
>idea, we should make that available."
>  
>
Lack of formality has come to immediate attention this Linux
world , those responsible are working out details as we speak.
Should be done in couple of weeks, not entirely unreasonable.

>Not once has any kind of statement of direction been posted here to
>the "real" TLUG members.  Sure, I have heard of things like the need
>to incorporate TLUG, or paying for things like power at Linuxworld or
>other conferences.  But I have never seen anything here on this list. 
>Nor have any solicitations for the so-called Executive Board been
>posted here either.
>  
>
<Flame retardant suit here>

>To me, it seems like a small number of people in TLUG have some sort
>of vision as to where the LUG should go, but are too afraid to share
>it with the rest of us.  Maybe they are afraid of the debate that will
>undoubtedly arise.  I don't know.
>  
>
We are working on it.

>This whole thing should really be the topic of a TLUG meeting, or at
>least half.  Maybe a tech talk at the start, and then a more
>"administrative" or "directions" talk at the end.  Or even a forum
>where people can give suggestions or ideas for improvement or future
>events.
>  
>
This is what is emailing list for. But, there will be formal framework
be put forth and things such as official elections of Acting Director will
be held. Such director shall represent views of the

>>Social component of TLUG meetings works only for core people, and even
>>this works only up to certain size.  This is why TLUG has not grown,
>>considering Toronto's population and increasing Linux awareness.
>>    
>>
>
>To be frank, there is no real social component of TLUG.  Yeah, sure,
>you can go out to the pub after the meeting.  But many members have
>families, jobs, and lives that they have to get back to, or have other
>reasons why they can't stay late.  The social part should be a
>component of the meetings.  Maybe not every meeting, but at least
>every other one.  The reason why you have only "core" people
>socializing is that no one knows who anyone else is!  This is the
>impression I always got.  Some people find it very intimidating; I
>know I have in the past.
>  
>
Thats SO Torontonian. Stop projecting your complexes onto
everybody else. People who want to go out will , and will have
great time. If you don't want to, or don't have great time
meeting people that may/do have similar interestes you're
welcome to reserve to yourself. No one will have problem with
that.

>The other problem, mostly rectified these days, is the bad reputation
>that TLUG has regarding people asking questions on the mailing list,
>and the way certain members treat the speakers.  I know that the worst
>offenders no longer frequent the list, but there was considerable
>damage done.  I bet alot of people don't bother getting involved
>because they figure the list is full of self-righteous nerds who's
>first response to a question is "RTFM you newbie!", or "Get lost, you
>don't know anything!  I've been using Linux since <insert date here>."
> Not exactly the best etiquette or attitude for a user group.
>  
>
That is being rectified. This kind of thing is common on every
forum, just sit back and take it philosphically. Shit happens,
there will always be stupid people, know your purpose. And
know this, complaining on public forum does score only negative
karma, if you are into that sort of thing. Instead say something
constructive.
Maybe there is too much of a westcoaster in me. There we tend
not to focus on depressing things, just solve them. As in VanLUG
and VLUG.

>>We also need to get our acts together.  With that in mind, I would like
>>some feedback as to what we can do to bring new people in to TLUG.
>>
>>1.  I've been chewing the idea of tutorial-style meeting for some time.
>>    The collective experience and knowledge of TLUG members are pretty
>>    impressive.  There are some things that each person knows quite
>>    well.  And, it would be nice to see if we can arrange some kind of
>>    "tutorial" for the benefit of others.
>>    
>>
>
>You mean some sort of "HOW-TO" or cookbook style presentation?  Where
>you outline the main points of how to get something to work, or
>configure something, or install something?  I like it.
>  
>
Anything really goes. People shall not be discouraged from making a 
presentation.
If two people want to make presentation, split the time and have people make
more effective presentations. VLUG had it this way. 2 presentations at 
the time,
it was quite  effective.

>>    A narrowly focused subtopic would be better suited.  For example,
>>    Python is too big to chew in one sitting, but Python interface to
>>    PostgreSQL might be narrow enough for single tutorial, ie.
>>        - modules you use,
>>        - parameters available,
>>        - syntax, and sample usages
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>Before you start asking for money, come up with a plan for this money,
>and state it publicly, either to the list, or on the web site, or
>both.
>  
>
That will be squared out very soon, most likely will take
very standard form, as any other public organization. Fact
that we had alot of registrations, motivated a group of
us to get our act together.

>What about a swap meet?  We can all get together, bring all the
>computer crap we have stored in our closets and basements, and trade
>with each other!  Just like the old TPUG swap meets of my youth; they
>were great!
>  
>
I'm in except that i don't have any old stuff :-(

>Also, what about a summer barbeque?  A social gathering, somewhere
>like Center Island?  Burgers, hot dogs, pop, and Linux?
>
>  
>
That costs money, to organized a picnic in public park. Can
be organized at someone's house, who has sufficent size back
yard.
pavel.
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