Question

[Robert Brockway]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Paul King wrote:

> Robert, I wasn't denying that a subculture exists; I was disagreeing

Ah ok.

Everything commented below is IMHO since I wouldn't be able to have anyone
else's opinion.

> get "jargon" mixed up with acronyms. I am sure that terminology has

Actually I think the Jargon file is badly named but I raise it as a
cultural identifier anyway.

> leaked out, but I have yet to hear anyone use an acronym like "IIRC"
> used in a normal conversation. Rather, they would begin the sentence

Oh I have :)  I've also heard them say IMHO, RTFM, UTSL, HTH and heard
people comment that they greped for things around the house[1].
Admittedly this was largely done in the company of people who would have a
clue what the person was saying :)

In any case, just because the culture in question does not express itself
widely in the "real world" does not stop it from being a culture (IMHO as
noted :)  The people who built the Internet or were there before it became
popular have often considered themselves a group apart from the rest of
the world.

> For example, I have been using newsgroups (called the USENET) almost

Yes I know it well :)

> Us food scientists (like all scientists) also have arcane acronyms and
> our own jargon. But I don't see that as being "cultural" anymore than
> USENET acronyms are cultural. Maybe it's true that food scientists form
> a subculture like chemists and physicists, but like these it is quite
> limited.

I believe that various groups of scientists could form limited subcultures
and that in some cases they have.

I just think computing tends to be more all-encompassing for those
involved in it.  Better yet, the people involved allow themselves to be
all-encompassed :)

> But I agree that USENET and mailing lists are cultures in nearly every
> other sense. It even has unique rules of ettiquette, clearly laid-out. I

I guess we only differ on whether a culture need constitute itself in the
real world to a wide degree.  I believe this is not a requirement for a
subculture to exist.  If I did believe this point I would likely be 100%
in agreement with you.

> have read USENET articles where people are baring their soul anonymously

Yeah, I've always tried to avoid that :)  I think it is the same phenomena
that causes people to bare their soul on Ricky Lake or worse Jerry
Springer :)

> to the world, while others just like to verbally abuse others. Some
> people, like Robert McElwaine (google *that*) are legendary in their
> infamy. So is Serdar Argic. It has legends, rumors, fears, hopes, loves,

Now there's a name I haven't heard in some years.  I used to frequent
several mideast newsgroups.  Thanks for the walk down memory lane :)

> emotions (through emoticons) and everything you could ask for in a true
> culture except for face-to-face human contact.

That's the core difference in our positions I guess.

[1] The first time I heard this I burst our laughing.  My friend had
commented that he had grapped the house for the keys and not found them
(he might have even said the grep returned 1).  Anyway, I had a mental
image of him moving around the house picking up everything that was not
nailed down and comparing it to a known set of keys.  I still find this
funny.  I guess you had to be there :)

Cheers,
	Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway
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Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net
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