linux = impossible? (no offense meant!)

[Robert Brockway]

On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, Byron Q. Desnoyers Winmill wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:
> > You really have to try Debian.
>
> I guess that there are two ways to look a dependency hell.  You seem to
> be suggesting that dependencies are only a problem if you have a
> conflict.  If the package managment tools can avoid conflicts, then all

Yep, I really only see dependencies as a problem if there is a conflict
or if there is a dependency missing which prevents installation of a
needed component.

> is well.  It is probably the sane way to look at things, and it is
> probably the perspective which most users take.

I think so.

> But dependencies also increase the complexity of the system.  I tend to
> frown upon that because it makes a system more difficult to maintain,
> and ultimately more difficult to use.

FWIW, as long as the distro is managing it for me I'm prepared to accept
the added complexity given that there are many advantages to "standing on
the backs of giants" as another poster put it.

I do now understand your point even if I don't agree that it is such a
problem.

> > As far as my 11 years of unix use tell me, the CLI is orders or
> > magnitude more versatile & powerful than the GUI.  You'll need to back
> > this statement up I'm afraid :)
>
> I was suggesting that there is no reason why the CLI should be less
> powerful than the GUI.  I would be hard pressed to find an example.  I

IMHO the CLI is _more_ powerful than a GUI. It certainly has an increased
learning curve though.

> can, however, point to a couple of hybred systems.

The terms themselves can be a bit narrow.  Is something based on ncurses a
CLI or a GUI?  I'd say ncurses is a clunky GUI but it isn't what most
people think of when they say GUI.  There are numerous other cases where
the terms break down I think.

> A/UX and MPW attached a GUI to each command (ie. Commando).  In the case
> of A/UX, this included most (if not all) of the unix tools.

I haven't experienced those systems but I'm not sure it sounds like an
improvement :)

> I would argue that a GUI depends upon recognition: may it be icons,
> spatial positions, or of something's place in the hierarchy.  On the
> otherhand,  CLIs depend upon recall.  In otherwords, a GUI doesn't

Yeah, that's fair enough.

> necessarily narrow down user choices -- it simply does so because most
> hUI designers think that simplicity implies ease of use.

Agreed.  I'm certain systems far better than our current GUIs and CLIs
will appear oneday.  I just think that so far we've been farily
constrained in what we have created.

I suspect our postions aren't so far apart ;)

Cheers,
	Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
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