linux = impossible? (no offense meant!)

[Byron Q. Desnoyers Winmill]

On Sat, 8 Nov 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:
> You really have to try Debian.

I've used Debian for years, and I'm missing your point.

> Or have the distro deal with them properly.

I guess that there are two ways to look a dependency hell.  You seem to
be suggesting that dependencies are only a problem if you have a
conflict.  If the package managment tools can avoid conflicts, then all
is well.  It is probably the sane way to look at things, and it is
probably the perspective which most users take.

But dependencies also increase the complexity of the system.  I tend to
frown upon that because it makes a system more difficult to maintain,
and ultimately more difficult to use.

> As far as my 11 years of unix use tell me, the CLI is orders or
> magnitude more versatile & powerful than the GUI.  You'll need to back
> this statement up I'm afraid :)

I was suggesting that there is no reason why the CLI should be less
powerful than the GUI.  I would be hard pressed to find an example.  I
can, however, point to a couple of hybred systems.

A/UX and MPW attached a GUI to each command (ie. Commando).  In the case
of A/UX, this included most (if not all) of the unix tools.

Seeming as you brought up SmallTalk (ie. a product of Xerox's GUI work),
I have seen modern environments integrate scripting and the GUI in an
intimate manner.

> a GUI tries to narrow down a users choices.

I would argue that a GUI depends upon recognition: may it be icons,
spatial positions, or of something's place in the hierarchy.  On the
otherhand,  CLIs depend upon recall.  In otherwords, a GUI doesn't
necessarily narrow down user choices -- it simply does so because most
hUI designers think that simplicity implies ease of use.

> I'm not saying it is impossible for a completely new design to emerge
> which will rival the CLI for functionality.

I know that there are designs better than the unix shell, particularly
when it comes to managing command histories and scripting (eg. MPW and
Smalltalk), there are better ways to handle command completion (eg.
FileFreak), and there are better ways to handle command line switches
(eg. A/UX and MPW).

Byron.
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