[GTALUG] Red Hat Paywall...

[Giles Orr]

A couple of points following on to 01bigtenor's reply:

According to Wikipedia: "Devuan is a fork of the Debian Linux
distribution that uses sysvinit, runit or OpenRC instead of systemd.
Devuan aims to avoid 'lock-in' by projects like systemd and aims to
maintain compatibility with other init systems to avoid detaching
Linux from other Unix systems."  When systemd was initially a horrible
mess, I was very much in favour of this.  But for the last several
years systemd has been rock-steady, and once you wrap your head around
the basics, it's a LOT easier to use than maintaining those damn
/etc/rc.N/ folders.  At least that's been my experience.

As for Debian stable vs. testing: 20 years ago Debian testing was
great ... about a decade ago I found it to be noticeably less stable,
and the constant volume of updates got on my nerves.  So I switched to
stable.  Even if the stability of testing has improved, I don't want
to put up with the updates.  If I need something newer, I can "pin" a
package, getting it either from testing or backports.  This is
admittedly a PITA to set up, and I hardly ever use it because of that
... but I _have_ used it, and it proved reasonably reliable in
practice.  Although getting your head around pinning weights is ...
nasty.

On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 at 08:24, o1bigtenor via talk <talk at gtalug.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 10:22 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
> <talk at gtalug.org> wrote:
> >
> > This Red Hat change concerns me.
> >snip
>
> >
> >   It feels as if RH steers the future of Linux by making so many
> >   contributions.
> >
> > - Ubuntu LTS + fresh Ubuntu has been pretty good.  I've had more
> >   problems with package updates on Ubuntu than of Fedora, but it has
> >   been pretty good.  Distro version upgrades have been good but not
> >   perfect in my modest experience.
> >
> >   Canonical has repeatedly acted in ways that offend or scare me.  So
> >   Ubuntu, although easy, feels like a potential trap.
>
> Found this to be true - - - - spent a lot of time a number of years ago
> looking into LXD  - - - the snap environment is one that NEVER will
> be seen here again if I can help it.
>
> Canonical is, imo, desperately looking for ways to monetize their
> brand - - - - - someone's just have to have more $$$$$$$$$.
> >
> > - debian Stable + Testing + Unstable.  I don't have much experience
> >   with debian.  I fear that the lack of full-time paid engineers might
> >   reduce the safety relative to RH (that could easily just be FUD).
> >   debian's goals are good by me.
> >
> > So: I'm thinking of switching to debian.
>
> I was with Debian for over 10 years - - - have now switched to
> Devuan - - - thereby getting rid of another item of 'control'.
> >
> > I'd like to learn from others.  How do you choose to solve these
> > problems?  Maybe some of them are non-problems.
>
> The problem is that the small encroachments don't tend to isolate
> - - they tend to grow - - - somewhat like microbes! (With similar results
> in my experience!).
> >
> > ================
> >
> > Giles has a problem with needing a stable distro with a more recent
> > FireFox.  I suggested, against my preferences, that this might be a
> > perfect use for Snaps/Flatpacks.
>
> Snaps are a system controlling adventure - - - be aware of this BEFORE
> starting down that road. Haven't used flatpacks.
>
> I find that browsers are needing updates almost on a daily basis.
> Am wondering if there is a way of reducing the 'encroachment' of
> the nefarious bits of cruft adhering to all browsers (at least as far
> as I see).
> >
> > I wonder if I should be using a stable distro everywhere but with
> > containerized upgraded packages where they matter.  I yet don't think
> > so.
> >
> > The rest of my family uses Fedora on their workstations.  But they
> > hate applying updates (even when I do the work).  They are way behind
> > most of the time.  Maybe a stable distro + a fresh FireFox would be
> > best for them too.
>
> I've already been informed that if I weren't doing updates windows would be
> applied post haste - - - something about the devil they know!!!! (Work systems
> are all M$ Win!)
> >
> > How many other packages would I need to have fresher-than-stable?
> >
> > - support for newer hardware
> >
> > - compilers etc.
> >
> > - more pain-points would be discovered.
> >
> > ================
> >
> > A fundamental problem is that feature changes and bug fixes are
> > usually mingled in upstream.  In some cases, it is a false
> > distinction.  Few developers want to maintain a bunch of old releases.
> > It is very hard for a distro to correctly separate these two, and yet
> > that is required to maintain a stable distro.
>
> I tend to run in debian's equivalent of 'testing'. Found over the last more
> than 10 years that that was a reasonable compromise to stability  and
> currentness.
>
> HTH
> ---
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-- 
Giles
https://www.gilesorr.com/
gilesorr at gmail.com