[GTALUG] Google wins over Oracle in Java API copyright suit

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Tue, Apr 06, 2021 at 06:10:25PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
> I wasn't there, but...
> 
> Background:
> 
> I think Sun was a great proponent of open standards.  They won for a long 
> time by introducing new ones and always being a step ahead of the other 
> workstation and server vendors.
> 
> The idea seemed to be that a standard and the code were a bit tied 
> together.  If other companies wanted NFS, they licensed the code.  For 
> quite reasonable rates, I think.

Oh yes the "wonderful" things sun gave us like nfs, portmap, nis, etc.
I am trying to think of something they gave is that I would actually
like to see on my system these days.  They did try though.

> The first stumble was with their Windowing system NeWS.  Nobody adopted it 
> because they thought it would make Sun too powerful.  But I think that it 
> was a good system -- better than X.

There is certainly a lot wrong with X, so it could have been better.

> The Windowing system on NeXT seemed to me to be, to a first approximation, 
> inspired by NeWS.  NeWS used a language a lot like PostScript (Forth); 
> NeXT used Display PostScript.
> 
> Eventually, almost all competitors refused to have anything to do with 
> Sun initiatives.  Sun got in partnership with ATT in a way that alienated 
> all other UNIX vendors.
> 
> End of Background.
> 
> Sun released Java and pushed it hard.  Introducing a new platform takes a 
> lot of promotion.  It was open but there was only one implementation.  
> Amazingly, it took off.
> 
> - for embedded systems
> 
> - for terminal servers (not completely successful, but a good run)
> 
> - for client-side programs (in the browser).  This started out well but 
>   JavaScript has completely replaced it.  I'm not sure that this this 
>   replacement was a Good Thing

At least javascript you can see and potentially debug or do something
about.  Not so with the dreadful java browser apps.

> - for server side-programming (this surprised me)
> 
> - lots of general corporate programming.  For example, Bank software is 
>   written by large armies of programmers, usually in Java
> 
> IBM had an implementation of its own, but I think that they paid royalties 
> (I'm not sure).
> 
> Sun got in financial trouble.  Their one clearly winning product was Java.  
> How could they monitise it.  Especially since this was against their 
> previous ethos.  They struggled.
> 
> Oracle bought them and the culture changed.  Fetters were released.  
> Doing unconscionable things seems to come naturally to Oracle.

Yes Oracle is very good at that.

> Why is Java so fat?  Because the original libraries didn't do enough and a 
> replacement was needed in a hurry.  And a replacement for the replacement.  
> A do-over would be great but the amount of legacy code makes this 
> unlikely.

Certainly compatibility was a huge mess early on and of course java
developers could never be bothered to tell you what version their code
required to run (they apparentlty assumed everyone would always use the
newest one like they did).

> Java seems to be hated.  But there's a lot good about it.  It prevents a 
> wlot of bugs that come naturally to C.  (I don't use it.)

Many languages (probaby most of them) prevent many of the bugs C makes
easy to create.  Many of them are better than java.

-- 
Len Sorensen