[GTALUG] Linux 4.19-rc4 released, an apology, and a maintainership note

[Dhaval Giani]

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 3:11 AM Russell Reiter <rreiter91 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 16, 2018, 11:52 PM Dhaval Giani via talk <talk at gtalug.org>
> wrote:
>
>> https://lwn.net/Articles/764901/
>>
>> ...
>>
>> To tie this all back to the actual 4.19-rc4 release (no, really, this
>>> _is_ related!) I actually think that 4.19 is looking fairly good,
>>> things have gotten to the "calm" period of the release cycle, and I've
>>> talked to Greg to ask him if he'd mind finishing up 4.19 for me, so
>>> that I can take a break, and try to at least fix my own behavior.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Jono Bacon's comments on it,
>>
>>
>> https://www.jonobacon.com/2018/09/16/linus-his-apology-and-why-we-should-support-him/
>>
>> ----
>>
>> Another interesting article that I read over the past few days was a
>> Python keynote talk,
>> https://snarky.ca/setting-expectations-for-open-source-participation/
>>
>> ----
>>
>> On a more personal note, I have seen "hostile" behavior on many mailing
>> lists, which has led me from withdrawing from participating on them.
>>
>> We tend to attack developers without thinking of the impact on them.
>>
>> This list is an example of attacks on systemd. While Lennart doesn't read
>> this list personally, I do know of the impact systemd criticism has had on
>> him. He has shared recordings of death threats because of systemd. I think,
>> we can all agree that, systemd, or pulseaudio did not make linux worse, at
>> least enough to justify death threats.
>>
>> They haven't even made it bad enough to justify the constant attacks on
>> the software.
>>
>> Remember, if you have a better idea, you have the _freedom_ to implement
>> it. You, however, do not have the freedom to expect them to drop what they
>> want to do, to fix your problems, and when they don't want to, be subject
>> to attacks from you.
>>
>> ----
>>
>> I do hope, Linus taking some time off will make things better for him,
>> and by extension Linux.
>>
>
>
> The Poettering hit man story is four years old. It didn't stop him from
> his own rant, they are after all just words.
>
>
They are just words for you. But you ignore a phone call from an unknown
number. And then you listen to voicemail, and it a voicemail threatening to
kill you because of systemd, at that point in time, it has stopped being
mere words. Yes, 4 yrs old. Has it stopped having impact? No.


>
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/lennart-poetterings-linus-torvalds-rant/
>
> "Open Source community is full of a******s, and I probably more than most
> others am one of their most favourite targets. I get hate mail for hacking
> on Open Source. People have started multiple 'petitions' on petition web
> sites, asking me to stop working (google for it). Recently, people started
> collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me (this really happened!). Just
> the other day, some idiot posted a 'song' on YouTube, a creepy work, filled
> with expletives about me and suggestions of violence. People post websites
> about boycotting my projects, containing pretty personal attacks."
>
> Also on a personal note, you contacted me offlist to chastize me about
> some trivial comment I made about pulseaudio and at least one other person
> has named you pubically on this list for the same type of conduct.
>
>
I apologize for that.


> Now you make this post as a maintainership note about why you leave
> hostile lists. What exactly do you define as hostile behaviour? I'd define
> it as being trolled offlist by someone who harvested my email and decided
> they had the right to contact me, just because they could.
>
> Systemd is a thing. Writing publically about a thing, even in criticism,
> even if you use words you can't say on TV, is so far removed from your own
> private ad hominem remarks offlist that I am raising your poor conduct, to
> remind you; just because you post a couple of true facts, that doesn't
> authenticate a third postulate you have formulated as some sort of
> gratification index.
>
>
I am just going to ignore the last bit. I bring up systemd, because it is
quite a bit my baby as well. I take every attack on it personally (rightly
or wrongly, and that is my problem, not _yours, as you have quite pointed
out later on in your email). Which quite brings to my point, you have folks
who are directly impacted by your words. Am I right in defending my baby?
Am I right in getting defensive about it? Am I right in not being able to
separate out the project from the person? These are all personal questions.

All that matters is, everything people say, has an impact, and a result.
You might call it illogical (in your opinion), but it has happened. There
have been times where I felt I could participate in discussions and talk
about it.

Spectre/Meltdown was one such. I talked about the importance of it, and it
was immediately shot down as corporate conspiracy. Of course, we are still
dealing with the fallout. What is my relation with this? For the last many
months, I have been part of the response force for my employer to deal with
the intel flaws. But feeling (note the word) attacked, doesn't make me feel
inclined to share. Certainly not my loss.

 I'm not exactly sure what it is that you maintain


I don't actively maintain anything right now. I took time off for mental
health reasons. Part of it is physiological, but a lot of was exacerbated
by working in open source. That is a different story, and not the topic of
this email. If you want, ping me offlist, and I will send you a more
detailed email.


> but I think both Lennart and Linus can look after their own issues without
> your or anyone else this lists intervention.


>
Of course they can. And once again, it is not a question of your, or my
intervention. It is a question of communication. Do your (trivial) words
have an impact? Are they going to have a positive impact? Are they going to
benefit the community?

If there is something I am starting to believe this week, it is this. Open
source is a great model for development. It is a horrible model for humans
though. We have this project which is developed for free (in the monetary
sense), in the open, (ideally) in collaboration with the world. But all you
are getting is negative feedback in return. I cannot think of a single
model, where that is a success story.


> Free speech is a cornerstone of progressive thinking, feel free to ignore
> this post.
>
>
It is the greatest power out there, and always remember the spiderman law
when this is the case. With great power comes great responsibility. Use
your free speech responsibly.

Dhaval
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