[GTALUG] (OT) home renovation courses for home owner?

[Russell Reiter]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 11:54 AM o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 7:01 AM, Russell Reiter <rreiter91 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 6:28 PM, o1bigtenor via talk <talk at gtalug.org>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Peter Hiscocks via talk
> >> <talk at gtalug.org> wrote:
> >> > I did a major reno on my house a few years ago. The deal with my wife
> >> > was
> >> > that I could buy any power tools that I needed, and I now have a nice
> >> > collection.
> >> >
> >> > This was the front of the house including a large livingroom, hall,
> >> > stairway and front door area. Complete demolition, rewiring, new
> >> > windows,
> >> > new fireplace, two sets of new stairs.
> >> >
> >> > I did everything except the drywall (hard work and tricky) and the
> >> > painting.
> >> > We purchased the stair unit. I didn't know how to do trimwork but
> >> > studied
> >> > the youtube videos and bought some books on it. The result was very
> >> > attractive, but it does require the proper tools and knowledge.
> >>
> >> I have found that the public library often has a huge selection of diy
> >> books.
> >> Some are useful - - - - some are NOT. It doesn't hurt of have someone
> >> that you know
> >> that has some knowledge function as at least somewhat of an advisor!
> >> >
> >> > I quite enjoyed it. It took 13 months, including time off for a
> stupidly
> >> > self-inflicted injury. But I'm retired, it would take a lot longer if
> >> > you
> >> > were working and could only do evenings and weekends. They call the
> >> > drywall dust 'divorce dust' for a reason.
> >> >
> >> Pity - - - I could have given you some tips on how to severely reduce
> >> said stuff.
> >> Learnt helping a few buds doing their renos and partially from a
> >> 'plasterer' ticketed
> >> father. There are some tricks to reducing the amount of dust generated!
> >>
> >> Oh yes - - - tools are wonderful things!!
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Dee
> >
> >
> > I thought I'd post again with some important information often
> overlooked by
> > people who renovate on their own without hiring a licensed and insured
> > contractor.
> >
> > Firstly if you do your own work which requires a municipal permit, you
> may
> > void your home owners insurance if you do not get that permit at the
> time.
> > It's as
> > easy as saying to your broker, I'm thinking of doing some renovations and
> > I want a bit of extra protection during that time.
> >
> > The downside is if you do work outside of the guidelines even that
> insurance
> > may
> > be voided if you don't use proper trades for electrical work. It's even
> more
> > problematic if you have non family members in residence. ie. visitors or
> > tenants
> > paying rent. re; Occupiers Liability Act.
> >
> > If you do get a permit for electrical any work and even if the city
> inspects
> > and
> > passes the work you did, the ESA will not stamp the permit on closure.
> This
> > will also
> > void your homeowners insurance if a fire can be traced to that electrical
> > work.
> >
> > There is a real forensic reason that all building materials for sale have
> > registration stamps
> > on them. If for some reason the work fails and the Occupiers Liability
> Act
> > kicks in, it is possible to
> > trace the materials to a lot of material sold at a store and ultimately
> even
> > find the
> > purchaser, from records.
> >
> > For work like painting, carpeting, tiling and installing cabinets and
> other
> > works which don't
> > require plumbing or electrical work, your insurance probably covers you
> for
> > at-fault harms
> > to others if say someone slips or trips as a result of improper tiling or
> > carpeting or if a
> > poorly installed cabinet pinches a finger or falls over and someone is
> hurt
> > etc.
> >
> > Tools are great and great fun if you like building stuff, but don't
> forget
> > the necessary
> > instrumentation involved; most important, renovation insurance. You need
> > that instrument
> > to protect yourself and others.
> >
> > Believe it or not you need a permit to replace a wired and attached
> ceiling
> > light fixture with a
> > chandelier. Most people get away with this kind of stuff "under the
> rose,"
> > because it's not
> > a problem until there is a problem.
> >
> > Once someone who is not part of the family household becomes injured by
> > faulty work, if
> > you don't have proper insurance, all those cost savings vanish. Lawyers,
> > Judges and safety
> > inspections cost a lot more than tradesmen.
> >
> > The law oddly presumes that no right thinking person would be foolish
> enough
> > to put immediate
> > family in harms way.
> >
> > Before starting any work which may affect any building system; heating,
> > ventilation, electrical,
> > plumbing or the building envelope itself, check you homeowners policy for
> > essential liabilities.
> >
> > Having said all of this, I do not believe there is a general requirement
> for
> > a homeowner to
> > have any insurance. It's not like insuring a car, a building is
> stationary.
> > However mortgage
> > requirements are pretty strict and since this is a matter of private law,
> > the stories of the
> > woe's of uninsured renovations gone wrong are buried deep within the
> legal
> > system.
> > Although instruments may be attached to your title as a warning that
> > something has been
> > noted ie: Plan Boundaries Act or Planning Act Statements.
> >
> > Plan boundaries act may mean your lot easement is not properly described
> in
> > a Common or Attached
> > Transfer under part lot control for development. As an example, Planning
> Act
> > Statements as a notation
> > on Title means that a Crowns Reservation of Interest regarding,
> descriptions
> > of works on record, which
> > change the legal description of the titled property, are subject to
> > investigations by the Director of Titles.
> >
> > As the old saying goes, "its all fun and games until someone gets hurt."
> >
> > So you can go ahead and install you own casement window, just be aware
> that
> > if it just falls out
> > and hurts someone, you are not covered by any insurance, unless you have
> a
> > rider for renovation
> > work. Even though you don't need a permit, you do have to have insurance
> on
> > the specific work.
> >
> > Or deep enough pockets to cover all the liabilities involved.
> >
>
> You bet - -- - don't forget to get that lawyer on retainer for any
> issues as well if you're
> trying to do something yourself.
> If you happen to forget that you MUST feed the bloated miasma of
> bureaucrats you
> will be punished and because you have dared to think of doing
> something for yourself
> you WILL be punished - - - you deluded fool you.
>
> > sarcasm off
>
> Its funny you know - - - its not that many years ago that it was
> considered 'good' to be
> able to do for yourself but that just doesn't cause enough work for
> the bureaucratic
> militia so then that wonderful element of bureaucratium continues its
> explosive growth.
>
> If you're going to tackle something and don't have the first clue of
> what to do - - - well
> either educate yourself or get help and please, purdy please - -- -
> don't tell the weasels
> about it - - - - they will try to destroy you and your project.
>
> > Insurance - - - imo is there for when something happens that really
> isn't something I can
> mitigate against. More than that - - - well its to make your broker
> and your insurance company
> rich (see mr. buffett (sp?) if you think I'm out to lunch on that!).
>
> Regards
>
> Dee
>

Insurance is there for when you think you are correct in an assumption, but
you guard against the fact you may be incorrect in an essential assumption.

There's not much difference between home insurance and a hedge fund.

You are already insured as a property  owner. All land titles in this
province are insured, that is in part what the land transfer tax a
purchaser has paid goes to.

On large construction projects there are complex arcturial tables balancing
risk vs. rewards and the projects insurance costs work off those risk
tables without exception, except by essential errors and omissions or
actual fraud. However it is in the public interest that in general, people
are protected from the errors and omissions and frauds of others.

Lots of homes are sold under power of sale with unfinished constructions.
The first instrument a purchaser obtains under title by swearing to a
condition of sale, ensures the title is bonded by the Director of Titles.

On one particular project I was able to convince the insurance appraiser
that even though there were no permits attached to the property; the
electrical work the previous owner had done and which was exposed at the
time he inspected, was in fact beyond the code minimum. I did this by
demonstrating in person that all kitchens and bathrooms were wired in full
duplex as if it were a commercial and not a residential property.

No further rider or fee was needed in order to complete the carpentry and
the surface finishes previously left undone prior to obtaining title. We
carried on with the full confidence of accurate disclosure to the agent
providing the homeowners insurance. Often its just a matter of making the
correct declarations at the right times.

Safety actually costs less than most people think and you shouldn't gloss
it over lightly.
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