[GTALUG] Browser bitching -- was Programming languages (in comparison?) - -was Learn Swift for Apple/iOS. Learn ??? for Google/Android.

[Alvin Starr]

On 12/13/2017 12:41 AM, Clifford Ilkay via talk wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:51 PM, o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor at gmail.com 
> <mailto:o1bigtenor at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     OK - - - you think 16 GB of ram is lots.
>
>
>
> I didn't say it was "lots". I said that is what I have and the 
> majority of people have that or less. My motherboard doesn't support 
> any more RAM or I'd put more in.
>
>     Sorry - - - there's quite a bit more in this box.
>
>
>
> "Quite a bit more" doesn't communicate anything useful.
>
>
>     I have the hardware to run any kind of serious software.
>
>
>
> What is "serious software"? As opposed to what?
>
>     That's why I'm peeved at wimpy software.
>
>
>
> "Wimpy software"... not helpful in diagnosing and flags you as a 
> potential crank.
>
>     One thing I find fascinating is that the issues that I've tried to
>     communicate to the dev team are usually ignored or pooh poohed,
>     like here.
>
>
>
> If you have been communicating with the dev team the way you've been 
> communicating here, I'm not surprised.
>
> Answering the following questions might help the dev team resolve the 
> problem.
>
> Which sites are you on? Exactly how many tabs did you have open? What 
> did RAM, CPU, and disk utilization look like before the crash? Have 
> you cleared your cache? Which extensions are you running? Have you run 
> with extensions disabled? What were you doing when the crash happened? 
> Are the crashes predictable or repeatable? Which version of the 
> software, operating system, kernel are you running? Which desktop 
> manager are you running? Are you running any widgets on said desktop 
> manager? (I had Cinnamon freezing at random intervals due to a buggy 
> widget.) Which video card and which driver? Then we have the 
> motherboard, RAM, chipset, CPU. That would be just to start. You might 
> have to instrument the software to see what the browser was doing when 
> it crashed and provide logs. It will be time-consuming for you and for 
> the developers and they still may not be able to replicate the problem 
> or fix it if they identify the problem.
>
> Here is what will not resolve the problem. You expressing your 
> opinions on the quality of the software, complaining about how this 
> browser should be some way other than the way it is, ranting about how 
> the web should be this, not that, and communicating in a way that is 
> guaranteed to have you ignored. I'm not say be "nice" in order to get 
> something you want. That would be manipulative and people have a sixth 
> sense about sniffing out that inauthenticity and act accordingly.
>
> I'm saying consider that there is a human being on the other side of 
> the conversation who has their own concerns, motivations, and 
> challenges, just like you. A little kindness goes a long way. Most 
> software developers take pride in their work and they love it when 
> they can solve gnarly problems. They are not your adversaries and if 
> they are treated as if they were, they will likely not make much 
> effort in helping you. They have no obligation to help you 
> specifically. You're not paying them or their employer and some of 
> them might even be contributors who aren't being paid at all.
>
>     When you stress software the cracks start to show. What I would
>     like to communicate, but am failing, is that what I'm trying to do
>     should be possible - - - that it isn't indicates a need for
>     changes in the software.
>
>
>
> It could also indicate a need for changes in attitude of the person 
> using the software. Not many people are inclined to help when you're 
> essentially trashing their work and have a big chip on your shoulder. 
> Your posts suggest that you seem to be more committed to doing the 
> digital equivalent of shaking your fist at the kids while yelling, 
> "Get off my lawn!" than actually finding a solution.
>
Browsers are one piece of software that we all love to hate.

A thing to remember is that Firefox got its start around 1994 as 
Netscape then through several forks.

Software is kind of like a sweater Its nice and fits well when its new 
but after a number of years it gets holes, places where the yarn is 
unraveling and no amount of fixing will make it look or fit like new.

Newer browsers have the advantage that they have a well defined spec 
from the existing browsers and no need to live with legacy code but 
given time the new browsers will suffer the same fate of changing 
requirements and the effects of maintenance.

Having some 30 year old code out there that I still get maintenance 
request on I can feel the pain of the Firefox developers.



-- 
Alvin Starr                   ||   land:  (905)513-7688
Netvel Inc.                   ||   Cell:  (416)806-0133
alvin at netvel.net              ||

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://gtalug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20171213/13ef8d76/attachment.html>