[GTALUG] Thinkpad choices today?

Lennart Sorensen lsorense at csclub.uwaterloo.ca
Fri Nov 14 16:58:52 UTC 2014


On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 02:01:46AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> Mostly touchpads, but there are a lot of differences that matter
> between touchpads.
> 
> [The following long discussion might only interest me.]
> 
> The answer depends on the way I'm using the device.
> 
> Oh, and what I think I will do (when selecting a device) doesn't
> always match what I actually do.  That's why I've experimented with so
> many things.
> 
> All trackpointers are the same to me (usable but not great).
> Touchscreens are of no use to me with a normal Linux desktop.
> Trackpads very wildly in usability.

I have used a few and they are not at all the same.  The Dell I
have a work is terribly inaccurate, and the touchpad constantly is
triggered while typing (so I turn it off entirely).  My thinkpad at
home the trackpoint is very nice to work with, and the touchpad never
has accidental triggering (probably due to both better drivers, and I
suspect being places slightly further away from the keyboard.  I find
the Dell has a terrible keyboard, trackpoint and touchpad.

> I like mice best, but the logistics are annoying with laptops.  Still,
> if my session is longer than, say, a minute, it is probably worth
> deploying.

That makes sense.  If I am playing games, I do tend to connect an
external mouse.

> For web surfing on an Adroid or iOS tablet, I quite like touchscreens.
> Except while entering text.  But I've never found that touchscreens on
> notebooks useful:

Typing on touch screens just seems awful.

> - partly due to the crappy support in Linux desktops
> 
> - partly because what I'm doing often involves typing
> 
> - partly because horizontally reaching for a touchscreen is very
>   tiring ("gorilla arm")

How about the constant finger prints on the screen?

> - perhaps because Linux tasks require precision that is beyond
>   capacitive digitizers.
> 
> I rarely remember that I'm even on a touchscreen when I'm using one
> with Linux.  (My main notebook, a Yoga 2 Pro, has a touchscreen.  So
> does our kitchen computer.)
> 
> Trackpointers are simple in concept but I've not really gotten used to
> them because I don't have one on my desktop where I do most of my
> typing.  (Or on the typewriter or keypunch where my muscles learned to
> type.)  My main notebook for five years (x61t) has one and no
> trackpad, but I carried a mouse.  The trackpad should be good for
> touch-typists (it's in the home row).  But on my high-resolutions
> screens, it takes a long time to move a significant portion of the
> screen.  I've always found it a bit, well, creepy that the cursor
> often drifts when I let go.

I used to think they were useless, but at least on my W530 it works very
well.  It takes less than 1/4 second to go across a 1920x1080 display.

> Touchpads on notebooks have a variety of designs with a variety of
> good and bad points.
> 
> - I hate it when touchpads decide that I'm talking to them when I
>   don't think I am.  The cursor will zing off somewhere while I'm
>   typing or thinking about typing.  It may be my fault, but it happens
>   much more frequently on some systems than others.  There's a simple
>   fix some systems have:  ignore touchpad events while the user is
>   typing.  I suspect that isn't enough.

Yeah some like to do that.  See above. :)

No it is probably NOT your fault.  Some of them are crap.

> - I am annoyed at the way touchpad use seems to require two hands
>   sometimes: moving a finger on the surface while clicking or holding
>   a button (or two!), perhaps even while holding a modifier key.
> 
> - having the left button being the whole pad seems like a step forward
>   but on my samples, it is designed as a lever with the fulcrum at the
>   top so (a) the pressure varies, and (b) is theoretically infinite at
>   the top.

Sounds awful.

> - I like the new gestures that have come in.  But haven't seen a
>   manual.  So I'm not really confident that I know them.  The most
>   useful seems to be two-finger sliding for scrolling (but there seem
>   to be two opposite conventions about the direction).

I love that feature.

> - the middle mouse button is useful in X and Firefox.  It is rare in
>   trackpads (except thinkpads).  Simulating by using left+right click
>   isn't as reliable.

I certainly like having all 3 buttons.

> - new trackpads seem to have soft buttons.  My fingers cannot "feel"
>   where they are.  So I have to look down from the screen.  On the
>   other hand, if I put some effort in I could configure a middle
>   button, I think.

At least thinkpads will be going back to real buttons next generation
again.

> I don't seem to use a stylus.  My x61t tablet/notebook has a stylus
> but cannot sense my fingers.  I thought that would be worth trying,
> but it hasn't been useful.  If I were drawing things, it would be
> wonderful: precise (unlike capacitive sensing of fingers) and pressure
> sensitive.  I am envious of Microsoft OneNote users, but in reality
> handwriting is probably too slow.

If you are drawing diagrams and such at the same time, then it does seem
useful, but they seem to have mostly died out again.

> I accepted a stylus in the Nokia tablets and the Sharp Zaurus.  But
> the iPad was a real revelation: a fluid interface and not cramped (10"
> vs 4").  But I perform some tasks better on the earlier tablets (ssh).
> 
> (I actually do some things in busybox on my Nexus 4, but only because
> I haven't bothered figured out how to create a GUI for these tasks.
> These same tasks are probably better on my Zaurus but it is usually on
> the shelf, uncharged.)

I find putty on my nokia with a real keyboard ssh'd to a real system is
a handy way to do things.

-- 
Len Sorensen


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