From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 1 03:20:43 2014 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 23:20:43 -0400 Subject: Can files in gzipped tarballs be extracted without paths? In-Reply-To: <53D99B9B.4060507-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20140731010544.GA17776@waltdnes.org> <53D99B9B.4060507@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20140801032043.GA28865@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 09:27:55PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote > On 2014-07-30 9:05 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > > Situation; > > * I download a *.tar.gz file > > * I know that it has a tarred subdirectory containing a bunch of files > > * I want the files in the subdirectory extracted directly to the current > > directory. > > > > E.g. if the tarball has subdirectory foo with files foo/file1, > > foo/file2 foo/file2, etc, I want to be able to extract file1, file2, and > > file3 directly. Right now, I dive into the tarball with mc (Midnight > > Commander), and "mark and copy" the files in the virtual file system. > > unzip has the -j option to "junk" the directorie structure, and unzip > > all files in the archive into one directory. Is something similar > > available with tar? > > Try using --strip-components. You'd want to strip 1 leading component to > get all the files into your cwd. > > If you want tar to extract to a directory you can use -C, for example: > > tar xvzf your-tar-file.tar.gz --strip-components=1 -C /tmp/bar foo > > You'd end up with file1, file2, file3 in /tmp/bar based on specifying > you only want to extract the foo directory, and that you want to strip > the first component of the path of the extracted file/directory. Thanks. That's what I was looking for. Let's just say that the tar man page is "rather terse". -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 1 12:09:49 2014 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2014 08:09:49 -0400 Subject: Can files in gzipped tarballs be extracted without paths? In-Reply-To: <20140801032043.GA28865-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20140731010544.GA17776@waltdnes.org> <53D99B9B.4060507@utoronto.ca> <20140801032043.GA28865@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <53DB838D.3000304@gmail.com> On 14-07-31 11:20 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > > Thanks. That's what I was looking for. Let's just say that the tar > man page is "rather terse". Gnu stuff usually has more complete explanations in the info page. At least through user interaction and contribution their man pages have improved. To replace one flawed system with another radically different flawed system (which requires most Debian-based user distros to pull in 2GB+ of TeX Live just to process texinfo files) was never a good idea. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 1 16:30:43 2014 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 12:30:43 -0400 Subject: Upcoming GTALUG Mailing List Changes Message-ID: We are in the process of moving the GTALUG mailing lists to a new server. If you are interested in helping with testing the new software please send me an email off list. We are looking to have it setup by this weekend and to do an opt-in migration sometime this month. -- Myles Braithwaite | http://mylesb.ca/e -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 01:32:47 2014 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 21:32:47 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help Message-ID: Does anyone know how to setup mailman so that when someone subscribes to a discussion list they will also be subscribed to an announce list? Also does anyone have any strong feels on why a mailing list shouldn't have this feature? -- Myles Braithwaite | http://mylesb.ca/e -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 2 02:29:17 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 22:29:17 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Does anyone know how to setup mailman so that when someone subscribes > to a discussion list they will also be subscribed to an announce list? > > Also does anyone have any strong feels on why a mailing list shouldn't > have this feature? Well, to be snide, if people wanted to subscribe to two lists, they'd ask for both lists. But seriously, yes, I see what you want here (and I appreciate that it's fairly desirable), and, well, it's a feature that requires a curious amount of additional design in order to capture the configuration. It's reasonably easy to say that the one-way alias (e.g. - "joining DISCUSS implies joining ANNOUNCE but not the converse"; declaring it so is not quite so easy. It requires either a rule system (so you can have rules indicating the relationships between mailing lists) or something like the SQL concept of a VIEW where tables are virtualized. (And it's not at all a coincidence that in Postgres, the way that VIEWs are implemented are using a subsystem called RULEs so that they can be seen as nearly the same thing. See Stonebraker's paper ) Mailman is pretty "procedural" in its implementation; it didn't try to be terribly sophisticated about this sort of thing, and, not to bash the use of Mailman overly much even before we get it all completely up and running, if we truly wanted something more sophisticated, Mailman's not that. For sophisticated, we probably should be looking at sympa (http://sympa.org) or similar. And I'm really not sure we truly have such sophisticated needs. Nay, I don't think I want to go to something that complicated, at least not yet. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 21:15:20 2014 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2014 17:15:20 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53DEA668.5000506@ve3syb.ca> On 14-08-01 09:32 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Does anyone know how to setup mailman so that when someone subscribes > to a discussion list they will also be subscribed to an announce list? > > Also does anyone have any strong feels on why a mailing list shouldn't > have this feature? You could make a front-end to mailman that would issue the requests to join both lists. Personally I would be against this unless you are giving a person an option whether they join the second list or not. I have heard there is a Canadian government anti-spam legislation requiring that people opt-in. Automatically adding people to a second list may go against the legislation. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 23:01:51 2014 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 19:01:51 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: <53DEA668.5000506-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <53DEA668.5000506@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On 3 August 2014 17:15, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 14-08-01 09:32 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: >> Does anyone know how to setup mailman so that when someone subscribes >> to a discussion list they will also be subscribed to an announce list? Does mailman send a "welcome" message when you subscribe to a list? If so, why not just include something similar to this in the discussion list's welcome message: We suggest that you also subscribe to the announce list. It's used to blah, blah blah. Traffic is quite low. If you would like to join the announce list, go to http://..... -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 01:24:27 2014 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 22:24:27 -0300 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: References: <53DEA668.5000506@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: 2014-08-03 20:01 GMT-03:00 Scott Allen : > > Does mailman send a "welcome" message when you subscribe to a list? If > so, why not just include something similar to this in the discussion > list's welcome message: > > We suggest that you also subscribe to the announce list. It's used to > blah, blah blah. Traffic is quite low. > If you would like to join the announce list, go to http://..... > > Yes Scott, In Mailman you'll have a ?Send welcome message to newly subscribed members?? option on Mailman?s ?General Options?. That could do the trick for your idea. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 05:36:03 2014 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 01:36:03 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53DF1BC3.80905@sobac.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Add the Discussion list address to the Announce list subscribers. Then any message to Announce automatically goes to all the Discussion subscribers too. - --Bob. Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Does anyone know how to setup mailman so that when someone > subscribes to a discussion list they will also be subscribed to an > announce list? > > Also does anyone have any strong feels on why a mailing list > shouldn't have this feature? > > -- Myles Braithwaite | http://mylesb.ca/e -- The Toronto Linux > Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: > Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability iEYEARECAAYFAlPfG8EACgkQuRKJsNLM5epH6ACeLBOT2RHhSZ6e0ClQSvZ3Ga1m hbgAnRMAL5Q50qe607sFDp+1XQtkmWv+ =XabN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 11:16:19 2014 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 07:16:19 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: <53DF1BC3.80905-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <53DF1BC3.80905@sobac.com> Message-ID: On 4 August 2014 01:36, Bob Jonkman wrote: > Add the Discussion list address to the Announce list subscribers. Then > any message to Announce automatically goes to all the Discussion > subscribers too. That would mean that a person subscribed to the Discussion list would not be able to do the equivalent of unsubscribing from the Announce list. They'd be forced to receive all Announcement messages (unless they implemented some kind of filter of their own). Also, people on both lists would get duplicates of the announcements. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 13:28:47 2014 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 09:28:47 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Does anyone know how to setup mailman so that when someone subscribes > to a discussion list they will also be subscribed to an announce list? > > Also does anyone have any strong feels on why a mailing list shouldn't > have this feature? Please include public archives for both lists. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 14:52:13 2014 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 10:52:13 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53DF9E1D.5080906@mylesbraithwaite.com> Richard Weait wrote: > On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Myles Braithwaite > wrote: >> Does anyone know how to setup mailman so that when someone subscribes >> to a discussion list they will also be subscribed to an announce list? >> >> Also does anyone have any strong feels on why a mailing list shouldn't >> have this feature? > > Please include public archives for both lists. Already taken care of: . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 15:00:56 2014 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:00:56 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: References: <53DF1BC3.80905@sobac.com> Message-ID: <53DFA028.6020304@mylesbraithwaite.com> Scott Allen wrote: > Also, people on both lists would get duplicates of the announcements. Mailman is pretty smart it checks both list's subscribers so it wont send a double email. -- Myles Braithwaite | http://mylesb.ca/e -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 15:05:08 2014 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:05:08 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: References: <53DF1BC3.80905@sobac.com> Message-ID: <53DFA124.907@sobac.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Scott Allen wrote: > a person subscribed to the Discussion list would not be able to do > the equivalent of unsubscribing from the Announce list That's like saying "A person subscribed to the Discussion List would not be able to unsubscribe from Scott Allen" > They'd be forced to receive all Announcement messages Yes, Announcement messages would be a fundamental part of the conversation on the Discussion list, just like messages from any other participant. > Also, people on both lists would get duplicates of the > announcements. Conveniently, people subscribed to the Discussion list have no need to subscribe to another list. We've had this setup for years on the Fairvote Waterloo lists[1]. There have been no complaints. - --Bob. [1] http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/contact/ On 14-08-04 07:16 AM, Scott Allen wrote: > On 4 August 2014 01:36, Bob Jonkman wrote: >> Add the Discussion list address to the Announce list >> subscribers. Then any message to Announce automatically goes to >> all the Discussion subscribers too. > > That would mean that a person subscribed to the Discussion list > would not be able to do the equivalent of unsubscribing from the > Announce list. They'd be forced to receive all Announcement > messages (unless they implemented some kind of filter of their > own). Also, people on both lists would get duplicates of the > announcements. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability iEYEARECAAYFAlPfoSIACgkQuRKJsNLM5epoSgCg+oGSK4RqyNTJmB6DvSJyw2uR EYIAoNfuK+yzQmUGObq6/egeOjbipE+5 =Xivo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 3 13:22:33 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2014 09:22:33 -0400 Subject: Upcoming GTALUG Mailing List Changes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53DE3799.9060107@rogers.com> On 08/01/2014 12:30 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > We are in the process of moving the GTALUG mailing lists to a new > server. If you are interested in helping with testing the new software > please send me an email off list. > > We are looking to have it setup by this weekend and to do an opt-in > migration sometime this month. > Include me in, please --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:01:38 2014 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:01:38 -0400 Subject: Upcoming GTALUG Mailing List Changes In-Reply-To: <53DE3799.9060107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <53DE3799.9060107@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 9:22 AM, David Collier-Brown wrote: > Include me in, please I'm pretty much done with testing (it was annoyingly easy to do). If you are still interested in testing you can join the list here: . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:07:28 2014 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:07:28 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: <53DFA124.907-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <53DF1BC3.80905@sobac.com> <53DFA124.907@sobac.com> Message-ID: On 4 August 2014 11:05, Bob Jonkman wrote: > That's like saying "A person subscribed to the Discussion List would not > be able to unsubscribe from Scott Allen" The difference being that their isn't a separate "Scott Allen" mailing list that contains duplicates of only what *I* post to the TLUG discussion list, for people that are only interested in what I have to say. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:15:28 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:15:28 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: <53DFA028.6020304-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <53DF1BC3.80905@sobac.com> <53DFA028.6020304@mylesbraithwaite.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Scott Allen wrote: >> Also, people on both lists would get duplicates of the announcements. > > Mailman is pretty smart it checks both list's subscribers so it wont > send a double email. One thing to beware of (and if it's already solved, then great!!!) is that Mailman has the habit of sending monthly notices to subscribers that include a reminder of their list password. It would not be a good thing for the "gtalug-announce" list to remind *all* members of the gtalug-talk list what is the password of the announce list. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:19:18 2014 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:19:18 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. Message-ID: This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style Vote on the mailing list. +1 - agree 0 - don't care -1 - disagree Thanks. -- Myles Braithwaite | http://mylesb.ca/e -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:22:49 2014 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:22:49 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: References: <53DF1BC3.80905@sobac.com> <53DFA028.6020304@mylesbraithwaite.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > One thing to beware of (and if it's already solved, then great!!!) is that > Mailman has the habit of sending monthly notices to subscribers that > include a reminder of their list password. It would not be a good thing > for the "gtalug-announce" list to remind *all* members of the gtalug-talk > list what is the password of the announce list. One of the first things I did was disable the monthly password reminder on all the GTALUG mailing lists. I don't want GTALUG on the Plain Text Offenders web site: . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:36:10 2014 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:36:10 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 August 2014 13:19, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > 0 - don't care As long as I can unsubscribe from Announce if all of it's content is also posted to Discussion. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:38:22 2014 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:38:22 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 August 2014 13:36, Scott Allen wrote: > As long as I can unsubscribe from Announce if all of it's content is > also posted to Discussion. Sorry; "...all of its content...". I really hate it when other people get this wrong, so I'm kicking myself. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:42:33 2014 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:42:33 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 Peter > This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style > Vote on the mailing list. > > +1 - agree > > 0 - don't care > > -1 - disagree > > Thanks. > > -- > Myles Braithwaite | http://mylesb.ca/e > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:47:40 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:47:40 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 0 - don't care -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:50:18 2014 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 13:50:18 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53DFC7DA.3010407@dinamis.com> On 08/04/2014 01:19 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style > Vote on the mailing list. > > +1 - agree > > 0 - don't care > > -1 - disagree > > Thanks. > 0 As long as the announcement list is used strictly for that, I don't see why anyone who is a member of the discussion list would object to being a member of of the announcement list. Either everyone who is a member of the discussion list is also a member of the announcement list or there is no announcement list. In lieu of the announcement list, we can have a convention of prefixing the subject line of messages sent to the discussion list with [ANNOUNCE]. We might do this already and if we are, I don't see the point of the announcement list at all. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay 647-778-8696 Dinamis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:51:55 2014 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 13:51:55 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53DFC83B.5040505@dinamis.com> Resending because original sent on Aug. 2/14 @ 1759 didn't make it through. On 08/01/2014 09:32 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Does anyone know how to setup mailman so that when someone subscribes > to a discussion list they will also be subscribed to an announce list? > > Also does anyone have any strong feels on why a mailing list shouldn't > have this feature? > There is no automatic way to do what you want. However, there are various ways that I can think of that can accomplish what you want. One way that came immediately to mind is to have a cron job that dumps the discussion list membership periodically that is then imported into the announce list. I doubt there is a requirement that this be done more frequently than once a day. Rather than have to check what has changed since the last import to the announce list, I'd remove all the members of the announce list and then add all the members coming from the discussion list. I've scripted most of this before so let me know if you need help. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay 647-778-8696 Dinamis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:54:22 2014 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 13:54:22 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53DFC8CE.5010103@ve3syb.ca> -1 If the 0 or +1 vote wins I would suggest keep the two lists separate so that someone who gets automatically subscribed to the second list can leave it without leaving the list they actually joined. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 18:10:17 2014 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 14:10:17 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: <53DF9E1D.5080906-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <53DF9E1D.5080906@mylesbraithwaite.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Richard Weait wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Myles Braithwaite [ ... ] >> Please include public archives for both lists. > > Already taken care of: . Very nice, and thank you. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 21:40:59 2014 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 17:40:59 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: References: <53DF9E1D.5080906@mylesbraithwaite.com> Message-ID: <53DFFDEB.8090800@gmail.com> On 14-08-04 02:10 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > >> Already taken care of: . > > Very nice, and thank you. FYI, there's a patchy archive going some way back at http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 17:57:59 2014 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:57:59 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. Message-ID: +1 Myles Braithwaite wrote: >This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style >Vote on the mailing list. > >+1 - agree > >0 - don't care > >-1 - disagree > >Thanks. > >-- >Myles Braithwaite | http://mylesb.ca/e >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 22:10:52 2014 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 18:10:52 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style > Vote on the mailing list. > > +1 - agree > > 0 - don't care > > -1 - disagree > +1 William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 22:49:38 2014 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 18:49:38 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. Message-ID: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 4 23:32:31 2014 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 19:32:31 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53E0180F.8040504@sobac.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 +1 But what I really meant is that rather than having a subscription to two lists, that the Announce list messages are just sent to the Discussion list, so that there's no need to be subscribed to two lists. - --Bob. On 04/08/14 01:19 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache > Style Vote on the mailing list. > > +1 - agree > > 0 - don't care > > -1 - disagree > > Thanks. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability iEYEARECAAYFAlPgGA4ACgkQuRKJsNLM5eoU0wCg8mstsk2f0VNGNm8jgooFavRn i94AoJ/xqBsN7DGTrEa4RolNRWBLkSAg =d0K5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 00:37:28 2014 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 20:37:28 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 August 2014 13:19, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > > This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style > Vote on the mailing list. > > +1 - agree > > 0 - don't care > > -1 - disagree > > Thanks. +1 I think people should be auto-subscribed to Announce ... but for those who join the list from the far side of the world, it would be nice if they could unsubscribe. If that's difficult, I think it's fine to put up with an announcement once a month about what the topic of discussion will be, particularly (as suggested by someone else) if the Subject includes ANNOUNCE or some other filter-ready text. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 01:52:38 2014 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 22:52:38 -0300 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2014-08-04 21:37 GMT-03:00 Giles Orr : > > +1 > > I think people should be auto-subscribed to Announce ... but for those who > join the list from the far side of the world, it would be nice if they > could unsubscribe. If that's difficult, I think it's fine to put up with > an announcement once a month about what the topic of discussion will be, > particularly (as suggested by someone else) if the Subject includes > ANNOUNCE or some other filter-ready text. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > +1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 02:03:04 2014 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 22:03:04 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53E03B58.3090606@rogers.com> On 08/04/2014 06:10 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > > > > This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style > > Vote on the mailing list. > > > > +1 - agree > > > > 0 - don't care > > > > -1 - disagree > > > +1 > > -0 ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 11:57:05 2014 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 07:57:05 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. Message-ID: KzEKCkhhdmUgc2VudCB0aGlzIHBvc3QgdHdpY2UgYW5kIHRoZSBtZXNzYWdlIGhhcyBiZWVuIHN0 cmlwcGVkIGNsZWFuLiBMZXQncyBzZWUgd2hhdCBoYXBwZW5zIHRoaXMgdGltZS4KCk9uIEF1ZyA0 LCAyMDE0IDY6NDkgUE0sIEpvaG4gTW9uaXogPGpvaG4ubW9uaXpAc3ltcGF0aWNvLmNhPiB3cm90 ZToKPgo+Cj4gLS0gCj4gVGhlIFRvcm9udG8gTGludXggVXNlcnMgR3JvdXAuwqDCoMKgwqDCoCBN ZWV0aW5nczogaHR0cDovL2d0YWx1Zy5vcmcvIAo+IFRMVUcgcmVxdWVzdHM6IExpbnV4IHRvcGlj cywgTm8gSFRNTCwgd3JhcCB0ZXh0IGJlbG93IDgwIGNvbHVtbnMgCj4gSG93IHRvIFVOU1VCU0NS SUJFOiBodHRwOi8vZ3RhbHVnLm9yZy93aWtpL01haWxpbmdfbGlzdHMgCj4K -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hexiled-zKLM6c3ur6bR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 12:17:52 2014 From: hexiled-zKLM6c3ur6bR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (HeXiLeD) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2014 08:17:52 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: <53E03B58.3090606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <53E03B58.3090606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <53E0CB70.8020303@nixbits.net> Subscribing to 1 list and get on 2 mailing lists is something i have not seen anywhere in all mailman lists around the internet that i have used or heard about. Users should not be "forced" to subscribe by default. On the long run there will be people complaining why are they getting 2 emails from the same place when they made one account only. -1 On 08/04/2014 10:03 PM, James Knott wrote: > On 08/04/2014 06:10 PM, William Muriithi wrote: >> >> >>> This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style >>> Vote on the mailing list. >>> >>> +1 - agree >>> >>> 0 - don't care >>> >>> -1 - disagree >>> >> +1 >> >> > -0 ;-) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 12:38:56 2014 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 08:38:56 -0400 Subject: More ram or an SSD Message-ID: I have an iMac running 16G. I can buy 32G of ram for around 450, or and SSD. which way to go ? Note the SSD would run as a second drive Dave Cramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 12:52:12 2014 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2014 08:52:12 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53E0D37C.6020206@utoronto.ca> On 08/04/2014 01:19 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style > Vote on the mailing list. > > +1 - agree > > 0 - don't care > > -1 - disagree Why not have ANNOUNCE posts to the normal list override the subject_header prefix with a conditional based on announce administrator membership: https://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/handlers/docs/subject-munging.html It looks like this could be done (in Mailman 3.x). Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 13:00:15 2014 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2014 09:00:15 -0400 Subject: More ram or an SSD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53E0D55F.5030807@alteeve.ca> On 05/08/14 08:38 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I have an iMac running 16G. I can buy 32G of ram for around 450, or and > SSD. > > which way to go ? Note the SSD would run as a second drive > > Dave Cramer Depends entirely on your workload. If you're running out of RAM and hitting swap, then RAM is the way to go. If you're not running out of RAM, all the RAM in the world won't make a difference. As for the SSD; If you find yourself waiting for disk access, then an SSD will probably be better. However, it can only accelerate apps/data saved on it, so I am not sure how much value it would be as a secondary drive. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 15:11:33 2014 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2014 11:11:33 -0400 Subject: Mailman Help In-Reply-To: References: <53DF1BC3.80905@sobac.com> <53DFA028.6020304@mylesbraithwaite.com> Message-ID: <53E0F425.30701@ve3syb.ca> On 14-08-04 01:22 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Christopher Browne > wrote: >> One thing to beware of (and if it's already solved, then great!!!) is >> that Mailman has the habit of sending monthly notices to subscribers >> that include a reminder of their list password. That is one thing I really dislike about mailman based mailing lists. I'm very surprised that no one has yet fixed that gaping security hole. > One of the first things I did was disable the monthly password reminder > on all the GTALUG mailing lists. Thank you for disabling that feature. > I don't want GTALUG on the Plain Text Offenders web site: > . The one thing I noticed on that list is that people have reported sites that send plain text passwords when a person is going through the "forgot my password" feature. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 15:22:29 2014 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 15:22:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: 2 Finger Tap on Touchpad References: <1403104920.20666.3.camel@HP-Envy4.local> Message-ID: Ivan Avery Frey writes: > worked. Funny thing is there's nothing in my settings where I can enable > or disable this feature. This article may yield the necesary info. I have not used this info yet but am looking forward to it ;) https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Touchpad_Synaptics -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 5 17:21:17 2014 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 13:21:17 -0400 Subject: More ram or an SSD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dave, > I have an iMac running 16G. I can buy 32G of ram for around 450, or and SSD. > > which way to go ? Note the SSD would run as a second drive > This is a desktop/laptop I believe If I had to make that decision, I would go with SSD. Why, unlike servers which stay up for long time and hence likely to use RAM more heavily, a laptop will need restarting often. The OSX filesystem is also crappy so dollars spent on SSD would have a lot more effect. Plus, with 16GB, you are already at a point of diminishing results as far as RAM is concerned William > Dave Cramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 7 21:01:35 2014 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 17:01:35 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140807170135.3c3c18cb41a7553c1c250993@eol.ca> On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:19:18 -0400 Myles Braithwaite wrote: > This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style > Vote on the mailing list. > > +1 - agree > > 0 - don't care > > -1 - disagree +1 -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 8 01:46:13 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 21:46:13 -0400 Subject: Helping out OLS Message-ID: <20140808014613.GV17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> In case anyone has been living under a rock and hasn't seen the campaign going on to help out the ottawa linux symposium, it is here: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ottawa-linux-symposium I have certainly enjoyed it the couple of times I have managed to get to go and really hope it manages to survive (and I would certainly hate to see Andrew Hutton loose out a lot on it personally for having run such a fun event over the years). So if you ever went there and enjoyed it, it is worth considering. I certainly did. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 8 18:56:18 2014 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2014 14:56:18 -0400 Subject: Does anyone have a Oneplus One phone invite? Message-ID: <53E51D52.8060708@dinamis.com> Hello All, I'm interested in the phone and I can only purchase one with an invite code. Does anyone have one? If you have one, what have your experience been like with the phone? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay 647-778-8696 Dinamis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 8 20:13:14 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 16:13:14 -0400 Subject: Does anyone have a Oneplus One phone invite? In-Reply-To: <53E51D52.8060708-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <53E51D52.8060708@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 2:56 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > I'm interested in the phone and I can only > purchase one with an invite code. Does anyone have one? If you have one, > what have your experience been like with the phone? The "gloss" has come off, to my mind; it was one thing for the vendor to have some sales restrictions back at the beginning when it's reasonable to think that they mightn't be able to make infinite numbers of phones fly out the door on the first morning. But it's been several months; if they can't start working off the demand, then there's a serious problem with production and I'm not sure I want in. There's a Reddit list out there where people can register and get put into a priority order so that people can "pay forward" by passing an invite to the next person on the list. There are 7300 people on the list. (I'm at location #6016 on the list, signed up on July 28th.) They have given out about 300 invitations, so I imagine I'll get an invite some time in 2023. The hardware seems interesting, and the price is pretty favorable, so I'd be keen (troubles with spam aside) on hearing if people have invitations somewhere nearer than a Reddit list where there are 5700 people higher in priority than myself. But I'm suspicious that their supply chain is pretty broken if it's not worth opening things up and selling to interested would-be customers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sam.sidd-CZK690njTpI at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 03:08:04 2014 From: sam.sidd-CZK690njTpI at public.gmane.org (Sam S) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 23:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: <20140807170135.3c3c18cb41a7553c1c250993-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20140807170135.3c3c18cb41a7553c1c250993@eol.ca> Message-ID: <8D18196454E5A46-1E4-B65F@webmail-m150.sysops.aol.com> +1 -----Original Message----- From: Howard Gibson <hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> To: tlug <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org> Sent: Thu, Aug 7, 2014 5:01 pm Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. On Mon, 4 Aug 2014 13:19:18 -0400 Myles Braithwaite <me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote: > This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style > Vote on the mailing list. > > +1 - agree > > 0 - don't care > > -1 - disagree +1 -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 06:27:21 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 02:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CentOS 7 installation oddity Message-ID: I'm installing CentOS 7 on a little computer (A Foxconn nT-A3500). My hard drive is partitioned in the MBR system. My installation boot device is a USB stick with the CentOS DVD ISO dd'ed onto it. When I booted the stick, I told the BIOS to boot from the UEFI device, the USB stick. CentOS seemed to think that the HDD that I was going to install on had to be UEFI-bootable. The evidence is that the partitioning phase of the installer would repeatedly block me with the message you have not created a bootloader stage1 target device This continued even when I created a /boot/efi partition The cure was to reboot from the USB stick, telling the BIOS to boot from the MBR device, the USB stick. I don't know why CentOS 7 thinks that the installation destination needs to have the same kind of bootloader as the installation source device. I don't know why it doesn't know how to make a boot partition UEFI-bootable when it is given one. Perhaps UEFI cannot boot from an MBR-partitioned drive. If so, CentOS should have explained the problem better. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 09:16:37 2014 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 05:16:37 -0400 Subject: CentOS 7 installation oddity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140809091636.GA24127@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Aug 09, 2014 at 02:27:21AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > I'm installing CentOS 7 on a little computer (A Foxconn nT-A3500). > > My hard drive is partitioned in the MBR system. > > My installation boot device is a USB stick with the CentOS DVD ISO > dd'ed onto it. > > When I booted the stick, I told the BIOS to boot from the UEFI device, > the USB stick. I have never heard of a UEFI USB stick or DVD. They should be MBR. I think that's your problem right there. You can boot MBR from the USB stick and then set up the harddrive as UEFI or MBR. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 11:15:37 2014 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2014 07:15:37 -0400 Subject: Does anyone have a Oneplus One phone invite? In-Reply-To: References: <53E51D52.8060708@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1407582937.3517.3.camel@tecumseth5.mounteagle.lan> On Fri, 2014-08-08 at 16:13 -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 2:56 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY > wrote: > > I'm interested in the phone and I can only > > purchase one with an invite code. Does anyone have one? If you have one, > > what have your experience been like with the phone? > [ ... ] > There's a Reddit list out there where people can register and get put > into a priority > order so that people can "pay forward" by passing an invite to the > next person on the > list. There are 7300 people on the list. (I'm at location #6016 on > the list, signed up > on July 28th.) They have given out about 300 invitations, so I > imagine I'll get an > invite some time in 2023. Could be a Cunning Plan, per Blackadder. Looks lifted straight from a recent William Gibson novel, _zero history_, about marketing products by making them almost totally unavailable. The buzz created is incredibly intense. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 15:58:06 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 11:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CentOS 7 installation oddity In-Reply-To: <20140809091636.GA24127-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20140809091636.GA24127@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | I have never heard of a UEFI USB stick or DVD. They should be MBR. | I think that's your problem right there. You can boot MBR from the USB | stick and then set up the harddrive as UEFI or MBR. The USB has the CentOS .iso image dd'ed straight onto it. Any filesystem structure is within that image, as crafted by the CentOS folks. This is the simplest way to do it (for me). It works with Fedora .iso images too. The computer's BIOS offers me several boot sources. Two are: UEFI: Corsair Voyager GT 3.0 1.00 Corsair Voyager GT 3.0 1.00 Both boot. As I explained, my installation problems depend on which I boot from. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 17:53:01 2014 From: marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 13:53:01 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 On Aug 4, 2014 1:19 PM, "Myles Braithwaite" wrote: > This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style > Vote on the mailing list. > > +1 - agree > > 0 - don't care > > -1 - disagree > > Thanks. > > -- > Myles Braithwaite | http://mylesb.ca/e > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 9 19:40:52 2014 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2014 15:40:52 -0400 Subject: [Vote] When someone subscribes to the discussion list they will be automatically be subscribed to announce. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53E67944.7050402@yaknet.ca> On 14-08-09 01:53 PM, Marc Lijour wrote: > > +1 > > On Aug 4, 2014 1:19 PM, "Myles Braithwaite" > wrote: > > This seems to be a passionate issue so can we do a quick Apache Style > Vote on the mailing list. > > +1 - agree > > 0 - don't care > > -1 - disagree > > Thanks. > > -- > Myles Braithwaite | http://mylesb.ca/e > -- > Ditto John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 01:24:30 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 21:24:30 -0400 Subject: Salsa Message-ID: Some were wondering about a salsa recipe I recently used... 2 sweet red peppers. Long not round 2 shallots 2 kumatos (brown tomatos. Make me think of tomacco) 8 sprigs of cilantro 2 tsp lime juice 1 tsp salt Chop all finely. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 10 02:16:51 2014 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 22:16:51 -0400 Subject: Salsa Message-ID: OK, help me out. Is this a dish or some fancy dance moves? :-) Christopher Browne wrote: >Some were wondering about a salsa recipe I recently used... > >2 sweet red peppers.? Long not round >2 shallots >2 kumatos (brown tomatos.? Make me think of tomacco) >8 sprigs of cilantro >2 tsp lime juice >1 tsp salt > >Chop all finely. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 18:36:36 2014 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 18:36:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: No systemd discussion? Message-ID: So systemd is causing a lot of grief and panic among seasoned users of slackware bare metal init systems, and system V init users. And there is no discussion on this on tolug? Okay, I tossed the hot potato into the ring. Feelings about systemd and the required adaptation (and, no doubt, teething troubles)? I am an older guy who cut his Linux teeth in ~1995 with Slackware installed from many floppies and later cds, so I know where I am standing. Was it worth the extra trouble to make a daemon do what scripts did fine for 40 years? -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 18:52:14 2014 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 14:52:14 -0400 Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: <11827_1407782238_s7BIbINx015423_loom.20140811T203349-924-eS7Uydv5nfjZ+VzJOa5vwg@public.gmane.org> References: <11827_1407782238_s7BIbINx015423_loom.20140811T203349-924@post.gmane.org> Message-ID: <53E910DE.9000305@utoronto.ca> On 2014-08-11 2:36 PM, Peter wrote: > So systemd is causing a lot of grief and panic among seasoned users of > slackware bare metal init systems, and system V init users. And there is no > discussion on this on tolug? Okay, I tossed the hot potato into the ring. > Feelings about systemd and the required adaptation (and, no doubt, teething > troubles)? I am an older guy who cut his Linux teeth in ~1995 with Slackware > installed from many floppies and later cds, so I know where I am standing. > Was it worth the extra trouble to make a daemon do what scripts did fine for > 40 years? Scripts aren't portable compared to a distribution agnostic tool like systemd. You don't have different places to go looking for rc* directories and files. You don't have to deal with those rc files' strange distribution specific sed and awk invocations. Moreover, it allows for dependency based service start up within a cgroup control system - when something crashes you can handle it more easily than with detached zombie pid files and the like of normal fork/double-forked processes. I'm using it and quite like it. My $0.02. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 19:22:08 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 15:22:08 -0400 Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140811192208.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 06:36:36PM +0000, Peter wrote: > So systemd is causing a lot of grief and panic among seasoned users of > slackware bare metal init systems, and system V init users. And there is no > discussion on this on tolug? Okay, I tossed the hot potato into the ring. > Feelings about systemd and the required adaptation (and, no doubt, teething > troubles)? I am an older guy who cut his Linux teeth in ~1995 with Slackware > installed from many floppies and later cds, so I know where I am standing. > Was it worth the extra trouble to make a daemon do what scripts did fine for > 40 years? While I prefer the idea of keeping things simple, I will also agree that the scripts are not working fine. The sysv init does not handle restarting things (you have to use respawn in inittab to do such things and that doesn't work very well with a lot of things either). Of course some people even think the BSD init system is functional (it clearly isn't). Some of the bits related to systemd (in the same source package) do make some sense and solve issues that have seemed like they should have been doable for years but were always a hassle, such as: If I have multiple displays and I can have multiple USB keyboards and mice, why can't I have multiple independent X sessions on one machine using that hardware. There were hacky messy ways to do that before, but apparently with logind and sessiond and whatever systemd bits are involved, this is apparently now trivial to get to work. That's pretty neat. I am not a fan of XML and don't know why they thought that was the way to go for the systemd config files, but oh well. I will not miss inittab at least. And we have had multiple attempts at making startup parallel using hacks on top of sysv init, and I think systemd finally dared to say "Don't try to fix sysv init, replace it". It has taken me a long time to start to accept systemd might not be such a bad idea. I am not impressed by prior work by some of the people involved, and I am very much not impressed about how udev got hijacked in without any consideration for being able to build it without having to build the rest of systemd (it runs fine separately of course). That to me is just obnoxious crap on the part of the systemd developers. So really the idea seems good, but some of the ways they have gone about things are causing a ton of friction. Breaking the way udev worked with the kernel in some cases also didn't go well. I would say some of the systemd developers have a serious arrogance problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 19:23:00 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 15:23:00 -0400 Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: <53E910DE.9000305-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <11827_1407782238_s7BIbINx015423_loom.20140811T203349-924@post.gmane.org> <53E910DE.9000305@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20140811192300.GX17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 02:52:14PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Scripts aren't portable compared to a distribution agnostic tool like > systemd. You don't have different places to go looking for rc* > directories and files. You don't have to deal with those rc files' > strange distribution specific sed and awk invocations. On the other hand systemd isn't portable to non linux systems, while scripts often are. > Moreover, it allows for dependency based service start up within a > cgroup control system - when something crashes you can handle it more > easily than with detached zombie pid files and the like of normal > fork/double-forked processes. Absolutely. > I'm using it and quite like it. My $0.02. I am getting there too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 19:36:28 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 15:36:28 -0400 Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: <53E910DE.9000305-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <11827_1407782238_s7BIbINx015423_loom.20140811T203349-924@post.gmane.org> <53E910DE.9000305@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 2014-08-11 2:36 PM, Peter wrote: > > So systemd is causing a lot of grief and panic among seasoned users of > > slackware bare metal init systems, and system V init users. And there is > no > > discussion on this on tolug? Okay, I tossed the hot potato into the ring. > > Feelings about systemd and the required adaptation (and, no doubt, > teething > > troubles)? I am an older guy who cut his Linux teeth in ~1995 with > Slackware > > installed from many floppies and later cds, so I know where I am > standing. > > Was it worth the extra trouble to make a daemon do what scripts did fine > for > > 40 years? > > Scripts aren't portable compared to a distribution agnostic tool like > systemd. You don't have different places to go looking for rc* > directories and files. You don't have to deal with those rc files' > strange distribution specific sed and awk invocations. > > Moreover, it allows for dependency based service start up within a > cgroup control system - when something crashes you can handle it more > easily than with detached zombie pid files and the like of normal > fork/double-forked processes. > > I'm using it and quite like it. My $0.02. > I'm suspicious that it was contributing to my XBMC box rebooting spontaneously. I upgraded Debian which drew in SystemD, and found that the box, at first, would reboot if I left XBMC alone long enough (roughly) for the screensaver to kick in. Later (which led to my getting a new box http://linuxdatabases.info/info/steele.html) it got to the point where I could barely get XBMC running before it would reboot. The box (one of the last IBM desktops before they went to Lenovo) was pretty ancient, so I didn't feel badly about upgrading to new hardware with lots more GB of RAM, HDMI output, and such. It is, strictly speaking, "superstition" to think that it was specifically SystemD causing the problem. The upgrade coincided with things getting somewhat worse, however it's not evident that there were software or config changes coinciding with things getting further worse. The other suspicious thing would be heat-related; lm-sensors warned me that one of the fans was dead. Conceivably, there's something about X getting real busy that might make heat spike and make the machine decide to shut down. I couldn't see anything in logs indicating adverse things happen at the time of the failure. Of course, if the log writes got throttled by the system falling over, well, quel surpris? One sorta favorable systemd thing I have noticed is that on Debian, they have set things up so that /etc/init.d scripts become pointers to the systemd commands, thus... /etc/init.d/bind9 restart invokes service bind9 restart so that us "legacy users" aren't totally bereft of guidance of what's going on. If my fingers still think that's how to restart BIND, that's OK... I seem to recall that Drew was going to do something on SystemD (possibly in September); it's probably not a bad idea to throw some questions his way so that if there are things that people are particularly keen on understanding, he might know about it. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 21:22:01 2014 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:22:01 -0400 Subject: Toshiba Laptop Overheating Message-ID: <31c3c32f29b3357a48f6f07b5ca61e0c.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> I have two Toshiba laptops here. The Satellite PA3373U-1MPC (doesn't that just roll off your tongue?) has two large fan openings in the bottom, each of which is accompanied by a fan. There is also a warning 'Hot base may cause burn. Avoid prolonged contact with bare skin.' (If it's too hot for comfort, why would you prolong the agony?) This machine runs reliably only if it's on top of a fan-cooling base. Kind of defeats the purpose of being portable. The second machine, a Satellite L500D, has only one fan opening and no hot spot warnings, but the exhaust from the fan is quite hot. I installed Linux Mint on it and the result was very nice. Then the video died, and I see on the internet that it is not uncommon for the internal temperature to rise to the point where the video chip comes unsoldered from the PC board. The solution apparently is to reflow the solder joints. I could do that, but given that the fan is working correctly, why wouldn't it happen again? I'd recommend staying away from Toshiba laptops unless they are known to have fixed this problem. I'm going to scrap these two, if anyone wants them. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 21:26:57 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:26:57 -0400 Subject: FSOSS CFP announced Message-ID: The now annual FSOSS conference at the Seneca at York Campus was just announced for Oct 23-24, and they are calling for papers. See http://fsoss.ca for more details. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 21:42:04 2014 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 17:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FSOSS CFP announced In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Aug 2014, Christopher Browne wrote: > The now annual FSOSS conference at the Seneca at York Campus was just > announced for Oct 23-24, and they are calling for papers.? See > http://fsoss.ca for more details. Oh dear. Another one for the collection: -- Chris F.A. Johnson, From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 21:57:22 2014 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 16:57:22 -0500 Subject: Toshiba Laptop Overheating In-Reply-To: <31c3c32f29b3357a48f6f07b5ca61e0c.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <31c3c32f29b3357a48f6f07b5ca61e0c.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: Hi Peter, I'll take them off your hands, with thanks. I had posted a few months ago that I was troubleshooting an MP bios bug in a Toshiba Satellite which caused the laptop to switch the AC to battery on any kernel or udev event which created a node on loopback. Even re-compiling the DSDT tables didn't solve the problem. Although I was close to a solution, I returned the computer to the person who just wished to be able to connect wireless at the library for an hour, about the length the battery currently lasts. So if you are scrapping these laptops, my curiosity about battery and heating problems is peaked. I've revamped a couple of laptops. One of which I couldn't even install Linux on unless it was sitting on a bag of frozen peas. It lasted a couple of years on a cooling base before it toasted itself. If you are close to down-town I can arrange to pick them up in the next couple of days, if you are further out, I would need some time to arrange to come and get them. Regards Russell On 8/11/14, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I have two Toshiba laptops here. > > The Satellite PA3373U-1MPC (doesn't that just roll off your tongue?) has > two large fan openings in the bottom, each of which is accompanied by a > fan. There is also a warning 'Hot base may cause burn. Avoid prolonged > contact with bare skin.' (If it's too hot for comfort, why would you > prolong the agony?) This machine runs reliably only if it's on top of a > fan-cooling base. Kind of defeats the purpose of being portable. > > The second machine, a Satellite L500D, has only one fan opening and no hot > spot warnings, but the exhaust from the fan is quite hot. I installed > Linux Mint on it and the result was very nice. Then the video died, and I > see on the internet that it is not uncommon for the internal temperature > to rise to the point where the video chip comes unsoldered from the PC > board. The solution apparently is to reflow the solder joints. I could do > that, but given that the fan is working correctly, why wouldn't it happen > again? > > I'd recommend staying away from Toshiba laptops unless they are known to > have fixed this problem. I'm going to scrap these two, if anyone wants > them. > > Peter > > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 23:04:51 2014 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 19:04:51 -0400 Subject: FSOSS CFP announced In-Reply-To: <12559_1407793366_s7BLgkK2016741_alpine.DEB.2.10.1408111739430.4216-EMPD1UTPIWVQFI55V6+gNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <12559_1407793366_s7BLgkK2016741_alpine.DEB.2.10.1408111739430.4216@chris.tor> Message-ID: <53E94C13.1090200@utoronto.ca> On 2014-08-11 5:42 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 11 Aug 2014, Christopher Browne wrote: > >> The now annual FSOSS conference at the Seneca at York Campus was just >> announced for Oct 23-24, and they are calling for papers. See >> http://fsoss.ca for more details. > > Oh dear. Another one for the collection: Care to elaborate? Have you shared details with the site maintainer(s)? Looks fine in Firefox to me with and without javascript. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 11 23:40:44 2014 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:40:44 -0300 Subject: FSOSS CFP announced In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Which browser do you use? Tried it in firefox, chromium, opera and konqueror.. looks fine for all of these. o.O In fact, I did even try it in many browsers through: http://browsershots.org/ best, =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib P?s-Graduando em Governan?a de Tecnologia da Informa??o - EST?CIO/FIC Graduado em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. 2014-08-11 18:42 GMT-03:00 Chris F.A. Johnson : > On Mon, 11 Aug 2014, Christopher Browne wrote: > > The now annual FSOSS conference at the Seneca at York Campus was just >> announced for Oct 23-24, and they are calling for papers. See >> http://fsoss.ca for more details. >> > > Oh dear. Another one for the collection: > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 00:26:43 2014 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FSOSS CFP announced In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Aug 2014, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Which browser do you use? > > Tried it in firefox, chromium, opera and konqueror.. looks fine for all of these. It has nothing to do with which browser. It has to do with the viewer's minimum font size. > ? Oh dear. Another one for the collection: -- Chris F.A. Johnson, From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 00:51:48 2014 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 21:51:48 -0300 Subject: FSOSS CFP announced In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Chris, Got to admit, you have an interesting point of view. I did just read all your page and I must confess.. as I'm not a designer, I never really thought about these things. I'm used to run my web browsers with the default configurations, so I never had these kind of problems. In fact, I did create a few pages, but only for personal purposes and never really thought about all of those aspects. For example, right now I'm curious about my personal blog. Does it looks like fine for you? I would be glad to receive a screenshot of it from your perspective: http://blog.marcelocavalcante.net PS: No need to send it to the list, as this is probably OFF TOPIC. Best Regards, =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib P?s-Graduando em Governan?a de Tecnologia da Informa??o - EST?CIO/FIC Graduado em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. 2014-08-11 21:26 GMT-03:00 Chris F.A. Johnson : > On Mon, 11 Aug 2014, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > Which browser do you use? >> >> Tried it in firefox, chromium, opera and konqueror.. looks fine for all >> of these. >> > > It has nothing to do with which browser. It has to do with the > viewer's minimum font size. > > > > > Oh dear. Another one for the collection: >> > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson, > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 01:17:28 2014 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 21:17:28 -0400 Subject: Openbox autostart - detecting hostname Message-ID: I'm using openbox on an Acer Chromebook (full install, not crouton). I'm pretty pleased with the hardware, but I've got a problem with Openbox's autostart file. It's a shell script, so I should be able to make decisions about what to run based on the hostname. This matters because I share configuration files and dotfiles across multiple hosts. But it doesn't work. I've tried: if [ "$(hostname)" == "crom" ] # works at the command line then xterm -fn terminus-18 & fi if [ "${HOSTNAME}" == "crom" ] # ditto ... if [ "$(cat /etc/hostname)" == "crom" ] # ditto ... None work in ~/.config/openbox/autostart . I dumped $(env) to a file from within the autostart and HOSTNAME isn't set, so that explains the middle one failing, but I have no explanation for why the others don't work. Can anyone help? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 02:04:06 2014 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 22:04:06 -0400 Subject: Openbox autostart - detecting hostname In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140812020406.GA1315@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 09:17:28PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote > if [ "$(hostname)" == "crom" ] # works at the command line > then > xterm -fn terminus-18 & > fi > > if [ "${HOSTNAME}" == "crom" ] # ditto > ... > > if [ "$(cat /etc/hostname)" == "crom" ] # ditto > ... > > None work in ~/.config/openbox/autostart . I dumped $(env) to a file from > within the autostart and HOSTNAME isn't set, so that explains the middle > one failing, but I have no explanation for why the others don't work. Can > anyone help? Do you have a /etc/hostname file in the first place? I don't, under Gentoo. As a matter of fact... [d531][waltdnes][~] cat /etc/hostname cat: /etc/hostname: No such file or directory [d531][waltdnes][~] cat /etc/conf.d/hostname # Set to the hostname of this machine hostname="d531" -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 06:41:32 2014 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:41:32 -0400 Subject: Openbox autostart - detecting hostname In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140812064132.GA22014@node1.localdomain> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 09:17:28PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > I'm using openbox on an Acer Chromebook (full install, not crouton). I'm > pretty pleased with the hardware, but I've got a problem with Openbox's > autostart file. It's a shell script, so I should be able to make decisions > about what to run based on the hostname. This matters because I share > configuration files and dotfiles across multiple hosts. But it doesn't > work. I've tried: > > if [ "$(hostname)" == "crom" ] # works at the command line > then > xterm -fn terminus-18 & > fi > > if [ "${HOSTNAME}" == "crom" ] # ditto > ... > > if [ "$(cat /etc/hostname)" == "crom" ] # ditto > ... > > None work in ~/.config/openbox/autostart . I dumped $(env) to a file from > within the autostart and HOSTNAME isn't set, so that explains the middle > one failing, but I have no explanation for why the others don't work. Can > anyone help? Try single '=', or use Bash/Ksh which support '=='. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 12:16:31 2014 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 08:16:31 -0400 Subject: Openbox autostart - detecting hostname In-Reply-To: <20140812064132.GA22014-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20140812064132.GA22014@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On 12 August 2014 02:41, William Park wrote: > On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 09:17:28PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > > I'm using openbox on an Acer Chromebook (full install, not crouton). I'm > > pretty pleased with the hardware, but I've got a problem with Openbox's > > autostart file. It's a shell script, so I should be able to make decisions > > about what to run based on the hostname. This matters because I share > > configuration files and dotfiles across multiple hosts. But it doesn't > > work. I've tried: > > > > if [ "$(hostname)" == "crom" ] # works at the command line > > then > > xterm -fn terminus-18 & > > fi > > > > if [ "${HOSTNAME}" == "crom" ] # ditto > > ... > > > > if [ "$(cat /etc/hostname)" == "crom" ] # ditto > > ... > > > > None work in ~/.config/openbox/autostart . I dumped $(env) to a file from > > within the autostart and HOSTNAME isn't set, so that explains the middle > > one failing, but I have no explanation for why the others don't work. Can > > anyone help? > > Try single '=', or use Bash/Ksh which support '=='. Thanks Walter - I do have the file. William - that's a very good point: I was automatically assuming Bash because it's what I use all the time, and that may well NOT be what's used by Openbox. It obviously uses a shell of some sort, but which one is open to question. I will confirm later. Thanks! -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 16:20:16 2014 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 13:20:16 -0300 Subject: Openbox autostart - detecting hostname In-Reply-To: References: <20140812064132.GA22014@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: echo $SHELL generally tells you which shell you are using. Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2014-08-12 9:16 GMT-03:00 Giles Orr : > On 12 August 2014 02:41, William Park wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 09:17:28PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > > > I'm using openbox on an Acer Chromebook (full install, not crouton). > I'm > > > pretty pleased with the hardware, but I've got a problem with Openbox's > > > autostart file. It's a shell script, so I should be able to make > decisions > > > about what to run based on the hostname. This matters because I share > > > configuration files and dotfiles across multiple hosts. But it doesn't > > > work. I've tried: > > > > > > if [ "$(hostname)" == "crom" ] # works at the command line > > > then > > > xterm -fn terminus-18 & > > > fi > > > > > > if [ "${HOSTNAME}" == "crom" ] # ditto > > > ... > > > > > > if [ "$(cat /etc/hostname)" == "crom" ] # ditto > > > ... > > > > > > None work in ~/.config/openbox/autostart . I dumped $(env) to a file > from > > > within the autostart and HOSTNAME isn't set, so that explains the > middle > > > one failing, but I have no explanation for why the others don't work. > Can > > > anyone help? > > > > Try single '=', or use Bash/Ksh which support '=='. > > Thanks Walter - I do have the file. > > William - that's a very good point: I was automatically assuming Bash > because it's what I use all the time, and that may well NOT be what's used > by Openbox. It obviously uses a shell of some sort, but which one is open > to question. I will confirm later. Thanks! > > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 16:39:51 2014 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:39:51 -0400 Subject: Openbox autostart - detecting hostname In-Reply-To: References: <20140812064132.GA22014@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On 12 August 2014 12:20, Mauro Souza wrote: > 2014-08-12 9:16 GMT-03:00 Giles Orr : > > On 12 August 2014 02:41, William Park wrote: >> > On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 09:17:28PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >> > > I'm using openbox on an Acer Chromebook (full install, not crouton). >> I'm >> > > pretty pleased with the hardware, but I've got a problem with >> Openbox's >> > > autostart file. It's a shell script, so I should be able to make >> decisions >> > > about what to run based on the hostname. This matters because I share >> > > configuration files and dotfiles across multiple hosts. But it >> doesn't >> > > work. I've tried: >> > > >> > > if [ "$(hostname)" == "crom" ] # works at the command line >> > > then >> > > xterm -fn terminus-18 & >> > > fi >> > > >> > > if [ "${HOSTNAME}" == "crom" ] # ditto >> > > ... >> > > >> > > if [ "$(cat /etc/hostname)" == "crom" ] # ditto >> > > ... >> > > >> > > None work in ~/.config/openbox/autostart . I dumped $(env) to a file >> from >> > > within the autostart and HOSTNAME isn't set, so that explains the >> middle >> > > one failing, but I have no explanation for why the others don't work. >> Can >> > > anyone help? >> > >> > Try single '=', or use Bash/Ksh which support '=='. >> >> Thanks Walter - I do have the file. >> >> William - that's a very good point: I was automatically assuming Bash >> because it's what I use all the time, and that may well NOT be what's used >> by Openbox. It obviously uses a shell of some sort, but which one is open >> to question. I will confirm later. Thanks! >> > > echo $SHELL generally tells you which shell you are using. > > Mauro > http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 > Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. > Excellent: I'll give that a shot. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 19:24:29 2014 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Openbox autostart - detecting hostname In-Reply-To: References: <20140812064132.GA22014@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014, Mauro Souza wrote: > echo $SHELL generally tells you which shell you are using. $SHELL contains your default shell, not necessarily your current shell. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 19:47:21 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:47:21 -0400 Subject: FSOSS CFP announced In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140812194721.GY17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 05:42:04PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 11 Aug 2014, Christopher Browne wrote: > > >The now annual FSOSS conference at the Seneca at York Campus was just > >announced for Oct 23-24, and they are calling for papers.? See > >http://fsoss.ca for more details. > > Oh dear. Another one for the collection: Hmm, with my iceweasel install it looks fine, even going to minimum and maximum zoom. What else are you doing to get that? That is certainly an interesting result. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 20:00:46 2014 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:00:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FSOSS CFP announced In-Reply-To: <20140812194721.GY17767-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20140812194721.GY17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 05:42:04PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> On Mon, 11 Aug 2014, Christopher Browne wrote: >> >>> The now annual FSOSS conference at the Seneca at York Campus was just >>> announced for Oct 23-24, and they are calling for papers.? See >>> http://fsoss.ca for more details. >> >> Oh dear. Another one for the collection: > > Hmm, with my iceweasel install it looks fine, even going to minimum and > maximum zoom. What else are you doing to get that? That is certainly > an interesting result. I have a minumum font-size of 20px. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 23:12:35 2014 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:12:35 -0400 Subject: FSOSS CFP announced In-Reply-To: References: <20140812194721.GY17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <53EA9F63.50001@gmail.com> On 14-08-12 04:00 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > I have a minumum font-size of 20px. That's what triggers it for me. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 23:21:28 2014 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FSOSS CFP announced In-Reply-To: <53EA9F63.50001-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20140812194721.GY17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <53EA9F63.50001@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 14-08-12 04:00 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> >> I have a minumum font-size of 20px. > > That's what triggers it for me. I haven't looked at the CSS, but the problem is almost certainly caused by an unnecessary height specification. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 00:01:01 2014 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:01:01 -0400 Subject: Openbox autostart - detecting hostname In-Reply-To: References: <20140812064132.GA22014@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On 12 August 2014 08:16, Giles Orr wrote: > On 12 August 2014 02:41, William Park wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 09:17:28PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > > > I'm using openbox on an Acer Chromebook (full install, not crouton). I'm > > > pretty pleased with the hardware, but I've got a problem with Openbox's > > > autostart file. It's a shell script, so I should be able to make decisions > > > about what to run based on the hostname. This matters because I share > > > configuration files and dotfiles across multiple hosts. But it doesn't > > > work. I've tried: > > > > > > if [ "$(hostname)" == "crom" ] # works at the command line > > > then > > > xterm -fn terminus-18 & > > > fi > > > > > > if [ "${HOSTNAME}" == "crom" ] # ditto > > > ... > > > > > > if [ "$(cat /etc/hostname)" == "crom" ] # ditto > > > ... > > > > > > None work in ~/.config/openbox/autostart . I dumped $(env) to a file from > > > within the autostart and HOSTNAME isn't set, so that explains the middle > > > one failing, but I have no explanation for why the others don't work. Can > > > anyone help? > > > > Try single '=', or use Bash/Ksh which support '=='. > > Thanks Walter - I do have the file. > > William - that's a very good point: I was automatically assuming Bash because it's what I use all the time, and that may well NOT be what's used by Openbox. It obviously uses a shell of some sort, but which one is open to question. I will confirm later. Thanks! Extra thanks to William, who did indeed spot the problem: I was using a bash construct while openbox was using some more stripped down sh. Changing the line to if [ "$(cat /etc/hostname)" = "crom" ] (ie. with "=" instead of "==") has fixed the problem. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 12:49:09 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 08:49:09 -0400 Subject: FSOSS CFP announced In-Reply-To: <20140812194721.GY17767-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20140812194721.GY17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <53EB5EC5.1090404@rogers.com> On 08/12/2014 03:47 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 05:42:04PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> On Mon, 11 Aug 2014, Christopher Browne wrote: >> >>> The now annual FSOSS conference at the Seneca at York Campus was just >>> announced for Oct 23-24, and they are calling for papers. See >>> http://fsoss.ca for more details. >> Oh dear. Another one for the collection: > Hmm, with my iceweasel install it looks fine, even going to minimum and > maximum zoom. What else are you doing to get that? That is certainly > an interesting result. > I also got a bizzare image, using Firefox 27.0.1 on Fedora 19, 3.13.6-100.fc19.x86_64 I get a Seneca/NSERC logo over a fragment of the page with some parts overprinted. --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 13:05:22 2014 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:05:22 -0400 Subject: FSOSS CFP announced In-Reply-To: <53EB5EC5.1090404-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20140812194721.GY17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <53EB5EC5.1090404@rogers.com> Message-ID: People make assumptions all the time that causes unforeseen issues. Example on your own site: http://b.cfaj.ca/?start=500&num=15 The "Next" link is no longer a link. This is why no browser zoom works by changing the font size any more... Pretty much every page broke when you did that because it was designed poorly. They all do a "photo" kind of zoom. -Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 17:44:27 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:44:27 -0400 Subject: FSOSS CFP announced In-Reply-To: References: <20140812194721.GY17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <53EB5EC5.1090404@rogers.com> Message-ID: <53EBA3FB.4020507@rogers.com> On 08/13/2014 09:05 AM, Tim Tisdall wrote: > People make assumptions all the time that causes unforeseen issues. > Example on your own site: http://b.cfaj.ca/?start=500&num=15 The > "Next" link is no longer a link. > > This is why no browser zoom works by changing the font size any > more... Pretty much every page broke when you did that because it was > designed poorly. They all do a "photo" kind of zoom. > > -Tim > Hmmn, I wonder if I can write a port script to find/fix this at the level that creates the html. The html itself just says
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--dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 17:18:47 2014 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:18:47 -0400 Subject: How to direct Skype sound to headset and not speakers Message-ID: <20140814171847.GA20925@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Greetings, I have two usb audio devices, one a DAC that goes to a stereo, and the other is a Logitech H650e mono headset. * Host is Debian testing using Pulseadio. * By default sound, playing music, goes to the DAC and my speakers. * The headset microphone works with arecord and skype. * Skype output goes to the DAC and not the headset. * Skype audio settings are all set to PulseAudio server, local. How can I direct Skype sound to the headset? -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 17:29:35 2014 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:29:35 -0700 Subject: How to direct Skype sound to headset and not speakers In-Reply-To: <20140814171847.GA20925-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20140814171847.GA20925@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: I'm not sure about in gnomd, but in kde the mixer (kmix) has a "playback streams" section where you can direct individual streams at a specific device On 2014-08-14 10:19 AM, "Neil Watson" wrote: > Greetings, > > I have two usb audio devices, one a DAC that goes to a stereo, and the > other is a Logitech H650e mono headset. > > * Host is Debian testing using Pulseadio. > * By default sound, playing music, goes to the DAC and my speakers. > * The headset microphone works with arecord and skype. > * Skype output goes to the DAC and not the headset. > * Skype audio settings are all set to PulseAudio server, local. > > How can I direct Skype sound to the headset? > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 00:43:10 2014 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:43:10 -0400 Subject: How to direct Skype sound to headset and not speakers In-Reply-To: References: <20140814171847.GA20925@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <53ED579E.5010605@ss.org> On 08/14/2014 01:29 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I'm not sure about in gnomd, but in kde the mixer (kmix) has a > "playback streams" section where you can direct individual streams at a > specific device +1 for KDE kmix, you just have to right-click on the audio stream and select the output device form the 'Move' sub-menu. Before switching to KDE, I used to use the package/command which is generic. pavucontrol Not sure if it's named the same under Debian. But I was using it for the same purpose with Skype back when Pulse was new in the Fedora ~13-14 days. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 00:58:04 2014 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:58:04 -0400 Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: <53E910DE.9000305-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <11827_1407782238_s7BIbINx015423_loom.20140811T203349-924@post.gmane.org> <53E910DE.9000305@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <53ED5B1C.1080306@ss.org> On 08/11/2014 02:52 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Scripts aren't portable compared to a distribution agnostic tool like > systemd. You don't have different places to go looking for rc* > directories and files. You don't have to deal with those rc files' > strange distribution specific sed and awk invocations. I'd caution against calling systemd a distribution agnostic tool. Actualy, it's far from it, instead forcing the distributions to a adopt single software solution. This ties in with the 'friction' spoken of in another post. When there are changes to core software to depend on systemd (X.org, gnome, etc).. then as a distro you either have to get on the centralized band-wagon or spend enormous resources undoing that work. I love systemd's features, but it is creating a new mono-culture in the process with no way to easily back out or implement later alternatives. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 01:08:19 2014 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 21:08:19 -0400 Subject: How to direct Skype sound to headset and not speakers In-Reply-To: <53ED579E.5010605-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20140814171847.GA20925@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <53ED579E.5010605@ss.org> Message-ID: <20140815010819.GA79456@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Pavucontrol was the answer, but the method is ridiculous. Having to run the application, watch the stream in pavucontrol, and click to change the output location makes me think the developer was trying to make a video games rather than a practical user interface. But when it comes to sound on Linux I expect disappointment. Rant over. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 15 02:33:22 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 22:33:22 -0400 Subject: [Bulk] Re:No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: <53ED5B1C.1080306-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <11827_1407782238_s7BIbINx015423_loom.20140811T203349-924@post.gmane.org> <53E910DE.9000305@utoronto.ca> <53ED5B1C.1080306@ss.org> Message-ID: <53ED7172.5010602@rogers.com> On 08/14/2014 08:58 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 08/11/2014 02:52 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Scripts aren't portable compared to a distribution agnostic tool like >> systemd. You don't have different places to go looking for rc* >> directories and files. You don't have to deal with those rc files' >> strange distribution specific sed and awk invocations. > > I'd caution against calling systemd a distribution agnostic tool. > Actualy, it's far from it, instead forcing the distributions to a > adopt single software solution. > > This ties in with the 'friction' spoken of in another post. When there > are changes to core software to depend on systemd (X.org, gnome, > etc).. then as a distro you either have to get on the centralized > band-wagon or spend enormous resources undoing that work. > > I love systemd's features, but it is creating a new mono-culture in > the process with no way to easily back out or implement later > alternatives. > This problem is endemic in the proprietary software world: someone convinces their managers to build a walled garden, and PHBs buy the idea. Other variants including introducing Kudzu or Bamboo ("Japanese Knot Vine") in an existing garden, which is probably closer to the systemd case. Some of these can be really brilliant: I used to use qef at Siemens, and it was wonderful. It just meant I had to do everything the qef way. --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 03:11:20 2014 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 23:11:20 -0400 Subject: SElinux Message-ID: <20140815231120.ef3446fb9a1b9721bc1681b4@eol.ca> On my home computer and laptops, SElinux is a pain in the butt. Who is protected by SElinux? Does it protect the system from rogue users, or does it protect from external crackers? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 03:21:10 2014 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 23:21:10 -0400 Subject: SElinux In-Reply-To: <20140815231120.ef3446fb9a1b9721bc1681b4-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20140815231120.ef3446fb9a1b9721bc1681b4@eol.ca> Message-ID: <53EECE26.9080601@alteeve.ca> On 15/08/14 11:11 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: > On my home computer and laptops, SElinux is a pain in the butt. > > Who is protected by SElinux? Does it protect the system from rogue users, or does it protect from external crackers? Say you had a web service installed, maybe without realizing. Now assume someone compromises that web interface while you enjoy a coffee at the local $coffee_house. SELinux just saved you from the compromised apache from getting control of your system because the apache context isn't allowed to touch system files. etc. SELinux is a pain, I will fully admit, but it is one well worth learning and getting comfortable with. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 03:35:19 2014 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 23:35:19 -0400 Subject: SElinux In-Reply-To: <53EECE26.9080601-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20140815231120.ef3446fb9a1b9721bc1681b4@eol.ca> <53EECE26.9080601@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <20140815233519.9e2bd788a6038d0c9ca81abf@eol.ca> On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 23:21:10 -0400 Digimer wrote: > On 15/08/14 11:11 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: > > On my home computer and laptops, SElinux is a pain in the butt. > > > > Who is protected by SElinux? Does it protect the system from rogue users, or does it protect from external crackers? > > Say you had a web service installed, maybe without realizing. Now assume > someone compromises that web interface while you enjoy a coffee at the > local $coffee_house. SELinux just saved you from the compromised apache > from getting control of your system because the apache context isn't > allowed to touch system files. > > etc. Digimer, As a matter of fact, I do have a web server installed on both my desktop and my favourite laptop. My desktop sits behind my firewall at home. My laptop's firewall is set to allow nothing through. I have even turned off ping. I need to visit a Second Cup with it to verify that it passes True Stealth analysis at http://www.grc.com. At a lot of sites, GRC seems to test the WiFi server, not me. I can see that if I am administering work machines, particularly in a secure environment, I will have to debug some applications and file ACLs to keep the system running. This protects me from rogue users. There probably is no need for the users to try out multiple applications. At home here, I want to. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 03:51:12 2014 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 23:51:12 -0400 Subject: SElinux In-Reply-To: <20140815233519.9e2bd788a6038d0c9ca81abf-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20140815231120.ef3446fb9a1b9721bc1681b4@eol.ca> <53EECE26.9080601@alteeve.ca> <20140815233519.9e2bd788a6038d0c9ca81abf@eol.ca> Message-ID: <53EED530.4070706@alteeve.ca> On 15/08/14 11:35 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 23:21:10 -0400 > Digimer wrote: > >> On 15/08/14 11:11 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: >>> On my home computer and laptops, SElinux is a pain in the butt. >>> >>> Who is protected by SElinux? Does it protect the system from rogue users, or does it protect from external crackers? >> >> Say you had a web service installed, maybe without realizing. Now assume >> someone compromises that web interface while you enjoy a coffee at the >> local $coffee_house. SELinux just saved you from the compromised apache >> from getting control of your system because the apache context isn't >> allowed to touch system files. >> >> etc. > > Digimer, > > As a matter of fact, I do have a web server installed on both my desktop and my favourite laptop. My desktop sits behind my firewall at home. My laptop's firewall is set to allow nothing through. I have even turned off ping. I need to visit a Second Cup with it to verify that it passes True Stealth analysis at http://www.grc.com. At a lot of sites, GRC seems to test the WiFi server, not me. > > I can see that if I am administering work machines, particularly in a secure environment, I will have to debug some applications and file ACLs to keep the system running. This protects me from rogue users. There probably is no need for the users to try out multiple applications. At home here, I want to. What SELinux protects you from is when you apps, pick another one, apache was a random choice, gets compromised in such a way to provide access to the underlying system. This is when selinux saves you, because it tells the kernel to reject requests from applications trying to access things outside their policies. If you think you don't need that, fine. To me though, that is like choosing not to wear a seatbelt... In 20 years of driving, I have never been in a crash, but I still appreciate the value of seatbelts and use them every time. SELinux is the OS version of seatbelts and airbags. If you think they aren't needed and are "uncomfortable", ok. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 16:46:35 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 12:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SElinux; rant about NAT In-Reply-To: <20140815233519.9e2bd788a6038d0c9ca81abf-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20140815231120.ef3446fb9a1b9721bc1681b4@eol.ca> <53EECE26.9080601@alteeve.ca> <20140815233519.9e2bd788a6038d0c9ca81abf@eol.ca> Message-ID: | From: Howard Gibson | As a matter of fact, I do have a web server installed on both my | desktop and my favourite laptop. My desktop sits behind my firewall | at home. My laptop's firewall is set to allow nothing through. You do let things through. Otherwise you would not be connected to the internet. You probably mean something like: I've configured my laptop as a pure client and offer no services. That is not sufficient to make one "safe". For example, a major vector for malware is client software: browsers and plugins (Flash, Java, Acrobat). And unpredictable other things like OpenSSL. In theory, good defence includes defence in depth. SELinux is another layer of protection. When I first heard of SELinux, I never thought it would fly. Just too many entries to populate in the policy matrix. But, with a lot of effort, they have made it work. SELinux works quite well for me. That's because I don't stray far out of the things provided by Fedora or Red Hat. They've done all the work. But if you put up third-party services, I suspect you will have to start understanding the arcane details of SELinux. Bonus: the Red Hat SELinux maintainers are very responsive and helpful. I think that some of them are the original developers (from NSA). | I need to visit a Second Cup with it to | verify that it passes True Stealth analysis at http://www.grc.com. | At a lot of sites, GRC seems to test the WiFi server, not me. I would guess that that is because you are behind NAT at those sites. In this case, GRC isn't a sufficient test because it doesn't cover the threat of attacks from systems behind that same NAT. Security is hard: complex, arcane, unforgiving, evolving. ==== Rant about NAT ==== NAT is an abomination. It takes the network of peers and breaks it into a network of servers and clients. Contrary to the connotations of those terms, servers are the only nodes that have the full power of the internet and clients are limited. Nodes are thus divided into a first and second class. Users now depend on their inferiority (client-only internet access) for security. That's the majority of what a wireless router does for security. And then a million hacks are invented to get around this stupid limitation. UPnP has a component for holing firewalls without user knowledge. "NAT Traversal" is a horrible addition to IPSec that I have to deal with (IPSec guarantees integrity of packets, NAT mangles packets). Think of STUN for your VOIP phone. I don't know what Skype and bittorrent do for the same problem. Among other things, these hacks are fragile and intricate. They also reduce privacy. The IETF mostly thought that NAT would be behind us with IPv6 but the Bad Guys are thinking of worse stuff: "Carrier-Grade NAT". Most of us have one real (routable) IP address at home, something we can leverage; with carrier-grade NAT, we will have no routable IP address. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 18:51:10 2014 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 14:51:10 -0400 Subject: SElinux; rant about NAT In-Reply-To: References: <20140815231120.ef3446fb9a1b9721bc1681b4@eol.ca> <53EECE26.9080601@alteeve.ca> <20140815233519.9e2bd788a6038d0c9ca81abf@eol.ca> Message-ID: > That is not sufficient to make one "safe". For example, a major vector > for malware is client software: browsers and plugins (Flash, Java, > Acrobat). And unpredictable other things like OpenSSL. > > In theory, good defence includes defence in depth. SELinux is another > layer of protection. Petty well said. Its petty common to hear people complaining about selinux being unnecessary unfortunately. Personally, I also don't turn it off but try to fix mislabelled files and ports when it come in the way. We should be grateful these forks have done a lot of work to make very complicated security technology very friendly. For example, I think it may sometime solve the problem of apps on android messing around behind user's knowledge. > > When I first heard of SELinux, I never thought it would fly. Just too > many entries to populate in the policy matrix. But, with a lot of > effort, they have made it work. > Really impressed with their effort. I am on their mailings list and they are willing to include support of petty much every application out there. You just need raise it with them and when it work, the solution goes into Fedora distribution policy file however small the userbase for that application is. > SELinux works quite well for me. That's because I don't stray far out > of the things provided by Fedora or Red Hat. They've done all the > work. But if you put up third-party services, I suspect you will have > to start understanding the arcane details of SELinux. > Ya, if that happen, there are tools to generate a policy for your problem without necessarily understanding too much of selinux. It work sort of well, though sometimes it poke too big a hole. Better though than disabling it altogether. Alternatively, you can disable selinux for only that service. For example, if you have oracle running, you can turn off selinux for anything oracle related system wide while it remain enforcing on the rest of the system > The IETF mostly thought that NAT would be behind us with IPv6 but the > Bad Guys are thinking of worse stuff: "Carrier-Grade NAT". Most of > us have one real (routable) IP address at home, something we can > leverage; with carrier-grade NAT, we will have no routable IP address. > -- I am hoping it wouldn't workout as the last time I checked, it broke a lot of services and not all carriers are moving that way. So over time, those who adopt IPv6 would have competitive advantage over carrier grade NATs. I think in counties like China where they need to track their users, carrier grade NAT wouldn't be acceptable as its harder to track a user behind carrier NAT. Or is this assumption petty wrong? Do we have a carrier that have successfully adopted carrier grade NAT at this moment? Would be nice to know so that we can track how their users are responding to it William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 17:53:07 2014 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 13:53:07 -0400 Subject: bash script issue Message-ID: Afternoon, I have a list of files that have horrible names and it is forcing me to improve the intelligence of a script I have been using to clean up the system after the images have been processed. Sample names are as below '004378858 (152).jpg' '004384040.jpg' '004382728.jpg' '004383192.jpg' '004375871.jpg' '004378858 (179).jpg' '004378858 (155).jpg' '004378858 (187).jpg' If i run either of the below commands on the console, it list them properly as above. #LIST=`find /home/wmuriithi/images/ -type f | cut -d"/" -f4| sed 's@ @\\ @g' | sed 's@[(]@\\(@' | sed 's@[)]@\\)@'` #LIST=`find /home/wmuriithi/images/ -type f | cut -d"/" -f4|sed -e "s/.*/'&'/"` If I run it on a loop, it breaks the file name into two if the name has a space for f in $LIST; do mv /home/wmuriithi/images/"$f" /home/wmuriithi/archive/images/"$DATE"/ # echo "rm $f" >> processed.list echo "rm $f" >> processed.list2 done I get this error: mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/\'004378858': No such file or directory mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/(38).jpg\'': No such file or directory mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/\'004378858': No such file or directory mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/(53).jpg\'': No such file or directory Now, I am curious, why do I get different behaviours above? What's a better way of handling such a file name? Thanks in advance William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 17:57:48 2014 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 17:57:48 +0000 Subject: bash script issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41EB6C37-12F9-4B35-97ED-F721CC0CB98E@desktopsolutioncenter.ca> Preface script with IFS=$'\n' Seen this a ton of times - spaces and white space create breaks in variable handling in a loop Sent from my iPad Dave Bour Senior Consultant Desktop Solution Center dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org 905.381.0077 > On Aug 17, 2014, at 1:53 PM, "William Muriithi" wrote: > > Afternoon, > > I have a list of files that have horrible names and it is forcing me > to improve the intelligence of a script I have been using to clean up > the system after the images have been processed. Sample names are as > below > > '004378858 (152).jpg' > '004384040.jpg' > '004382728.jpg' > '004383192.jpg' > '004375871.jpg' > '004378858 (179).jpg' > '004378858 (155).jpg' > '004378858 (187).jpg' > > > If i run either of the below commands on the console, it list them > properly as above. > > #LIST=`find /home/wmuriithi/images/ -type f | cut -d"/" -f4| sed 's@ > @\\ @g' | sed 's@[(]@\\(@' | sed 's@[)]@\\)@'` > #LIST=`find /home/wmuriithi/images/ -type f | cut -d"/" -f4|sed -e > "s/.*/'&'/"` > > If I run it on a loop, it breaks the file name into two if the name has a space > > for f in $LIST; > do > > mv /home/wmuriithi/images/"$f" /home/wmuriithi/archive/images/"$DATE"/ > # echo "rm $f" >> processed.list > echo "rm $f" >> processed.list2 > > done > > I get this error: > > mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/\'004378858': No such file or directory > mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/(38).jpg\'': No such file or directory > mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/\'004378858': No such file or directory > mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/(53).jpg\'': No such file or directory > > Now, I am curious, why do I get different behaviours above? What's a > better way of handling such a file name? > > Thanks in advance > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 18:00:34 2014 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 18:00:34 +0000 Subject: bash script issue In-Reply-To: <41EB6C37-12F9-4B35-97ED-F721CC0CB98E-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ@public.gmane.org> References: ,<41EB6C37-12F9-4B35-97ED-F721CC0CB98E@desktopsolutioncenter.ca> Message-ID: <225BD6E6-54EB-4617-8D1D-3202C0342E48@desktopsolutioncenter.ca> Also, seeing brackets on file names, may want to put quotes around the variable. Remember to use to \" rather than " by itself if echoing out to a script file too Sent from my iPad Dave Bour Senior Consultant Desktop Solution Center dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org 905.381.0077 > On Aug 17, 2014, at 1:57 PM, "Dave Bour" wrote: > > Preface script with > > IFS=$'\n' > > Seen this a ton of times - spaces and white space create breaks in variable handling in a loop > > > Sent from my iPad > > Dave Bour > Senior Consultant > Desktop Solution Center > dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org > 905.381.0077 > > >> On Aug 17, 2014, at 1:53 PM, "William Muriithi" wrote: >> >> Afternoon, >> >> I have a list of files that have horrible names and it is forcing me >> to improve the intelligence of a script I have been using to clean up >> the system after the images have been processed. Sample names are as >> below >> >> '004378858 (152).jpg' >> '004384040.jpg' >> '004382728.jpg' >> '004383192.jpg' >> '004375871.jpg' >> '004378858 (179).jpg' >> '004378858 (155).jpg' >> '004378858 (187).jpg' >> >> >> If i run either of the below commands on the console, it list them >> properly as above. >> >> #LIST=`find /home/wmuriithi/images/ -type f | cut -d"/" -f4| sed 's@ >> @\\ @g' | sed 's@[(]@\\(@' | sed 's@[)]@\\)@'` >> #LIST=`find /home/wmuriithi/images/ -type f | cut -d"/" -f4|sed -e >> "s/.*/'&'/"` >> >> If I run it on a loop, it breaks the file name into two if the name has a space >> >> for f in $LIST; >> do >> >> mv /home/wmuriithi/images/"$f" /home/wmuriithi/archive/images/"$DATE"/ >> # echo "rm $f" >> processed.list >> echo "rm $f" >> processed.list2 >> >> done >> >> I get this error: >> >> mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/\'004378858': No such file or directory >> mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/(38).jpg\'': No such file or directory >> mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/\'004378858': No such file or directory >> mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/(53).jpg\'': No such file or directory >> >> Now, I am curious, why do I get different behaviours above? What's a >> better way of handling such a file name? >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> William >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 18:49:34 2014 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 14:49:34 -0400 Subject: bash script issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53F0F93E.3040802@gmail.com> On 14-08-17 01:53 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > > What's a better way of handling such a file name? There are a million different ways of doing this, and the way I deal with difficult file names is treat them as separate records: find /home/wmuriithi/images/ -type f | while read f do mv "$f" /home/wmuriithi/archive/images/"$DATE"/ done or whatever you need to do. If you're in charge of creating the intermediate files, make your life easier from now on by not creating files with spaces in them in the first place. You can't guarantee that other people will be so careful, but your own work you can control. Those are only slightly ugly file names you are dealing with. Here's how to make a very special one: f=$(/bin/echo -e \-\ '\xe2\x98\xba'\$f\(a\:\ \\\\\'2\"\'\)\&.dat.bak\ ) date > "$f" This is an illegal file name on almost every other OS, and a spectacularly ill-advised one on Linux. For extra lulz, create distinct files based on that template, varying only in the upper/lower case of one letter. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 22:11:23 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 18:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash script issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi Dealing with filnames with embedded "magic" characters is a hard problem. Filesystem: Underneath it all, NTFS uses UTF16 for its filesystem names. Who knows for SMB/CIFS (what Samba provides). As I conceptualize it, UNIX filesystems use a stream of bytes as a filename. '\0' and '/' are magic, and sometimes '.'. So the shell can use its own logic. CD-ROM and relatives have still other rules. Shell: BASH and other shells interpret a whole bunch of characters as special. They lets the user work around this with a variety of kludgy quoting techniques. Remember, you are probably affected by the locale! find(1) and xargs(1) have a way of taking the shell out of the problem, making it straightforward for some problems This command, for example, will ls your files no matter how strangely you named them find . -name '004*.jpg' -print0 | xargs -0 --no-run-if-empty ls -l -- (I haven't seen -- documented but it seems to work.) -print0 output doesn't let you do cut(1) etc. straightforwardly. As has been suggested, if you are willing to forbid '\n' in filenames, more options open up. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 23:50:23 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 19:50:23 -0400 Subject: bash script issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53F13FBF.1060302@rogers.com> On 08/17/2014 06:11 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: William Muriithi > > Dealing with filnames with embedded "magic" characters is a hard > problem. > > Filesystem: > > Underneath it all, NTFS uses UTF16 for its filesystem names. > Who knows for SMB/CIFS (what Samba provides). Samba delivers the ascii subset of UTF-8, with some non-case-sensitivity filtering to carefully match WinBlows /observed/ behaviour. It's a subset of the claimed behaviour (;-)) --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 06:57:26 2014 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 06:57:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: bash script issue References: Message-ID: William Muriithi writes: > '004378858 (152).jpg' One tip: bash has POSIX conventions and one of those is: "any number that starts with 0 is octal". Yes, OCTAL. Therefore, AVOID using such filenames most of the time. You can use a prefix notation and all will be fine like 'tel:004378858 (152).jpg' . The space is usually not a problem but one way to get rid of its parsing complexities in shell scripts is to url escape it. Space is %20. A simple way to avoid the problems with leading zeros is to format all numbers to equal length using leading zeros (printf %010d will do that), then prepend a '1' to each. Now 0001.jpg will become 1000000001.jpg and can be sorted nicely without being interpreted as octal. At the end, remove the leading 1. You many have to get more creative than that to preserve number length and so on. So one trick when working with crazy file names which may have leading zeros is to delete leading zeros from the name. You can add them back at the end in a bulk rename using for example printf %9f $old_name_numeric Another trick is to escape any shell offending characters like () into something less offending like digraphs and more. Again, URL escaping will work fine but will mess up sorting. Another trick is to reduce all names to a "canonical form" before processing, which means making them equal length and whatever else is needed to make them processable and sortable in a way which can be undone later. There are numerous bash resources on working with such problems at http://www.shelldorado.com/freenode/BashFaq.html (see in particular the entries on how can I read a file line by line and so on). -- Peter (been there, done that, have the marks to show) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 07:11:34 2014 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:11:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: No systemd discussion? References: <20140811192208.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen writes: > On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 06:36:36PM +0000, Peter wrote: > > So systemd is causing a lot of grief and panic among seasoned users of > While I prefer the idea of keeping things simple, I will also agree that > the scripts are not working fine. Let's be honest (warning: I am into VERY small systems which probably have no room for systemd - but see below): The scripts are not the problem. The problem is the daemons and other things they start/stop, which can be programmed in ways which make them nonresponsive for a variety of reasons. init(1) has a sane way to cope with runaway processes, by making them sleep for a bit if they go insane. Zombies should be dealt with by process group mechanisms which exist, but are not used by anyone. It is really easy to write a bit of code which registers "children to be killed in case of process group leader demise" perhaps directly into /var/run/thedaemon.pid files, to be used by a slightly modded init(1) when a process dies or runs away. Adding systemd is not going to change that. A daemon that dies repeatedly very quickly will have to be "quarantined" for a while. systemd will not fix the underlying problem, which is certain daemons are not high quality and robust. Using systemd to "fix" them is, imho, barking up the wrong tree. What systemd *could* have done, is to replace the need for sh(1) and init(1) in small systems assuming it would have some sort of shell or smnp interface for control from a shell-less terminal, serial line, or network connection. It would also have to be rather good at doing system things to replace sh and init in size, so sh(1) would not be needed at all, as those 2 together are fairly small (assuming ash or another startup sh compatible shell is used), and do a LOT of things besides running sysv init scripts. The way it is now, I see systemd as an unneeded complication which will break many many things before starting to work "right" for most people. And by most people I explicitly exclude "ready made" distribution users a la ubuntu etc., who are end users, and, who, by their own (!) definition, should do nothing more than push buttons and be rewarded with actions, reagrdless how those actions are achieved. Let's say I will be interested in systemd on small systems *after* openwrt and other embedded distributions adopt it *and* the inevitable anguished help cries on relevant forums die down a bit. That could take a year or two after they start using it, judging by how things went in the past. I so wish I am wrong about the time-frame. Until then, I see systemd based kernels as a fork... harsh, but a serious problem for people who need to tinker under the hood frequently, as I have to. -- Peter (the late bird who hates being eaten) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 11:09:02 2014 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:09:02 -0400 Subject: just when you thought it was safe Message-ID: https://citizenlab.org/2014/08/cat-video-and-the-death-of-clear-text/ Dave Cramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 13:30:44 2014 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 09:30:44 -0400 Subject: bash script issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 17 August 2014 13:53, William Muriithi wrote: > I have a list of files that have horrible names and it is forcing me > to improve the intelligence of a script I have been using to clean up > the system after the images have been processed. Sample names are as > below > > '004378858 (152).jpg' > '004384040.jpg' > '004382728.jpg' > '004383192.jpg' > '004375871.jpg' > '004378858 (179).jpg' > '004378858 (155).jpg' > '004378858 (187).jpg' > > > If i run either of the below commands on the console, it list them > properly as above. > > #LIST=`find /home/wmuriithi/images/ -type f | cut -d"/" -f4| sed 's@ > @\\ @g' | sed 's@[(]@\\(@' | sed 's@[)]@\\)@'` > #LIST=`find /home/wmuriithi/images/ -type f | cut -d"/" -f4|sed -e > "s/.*/'&'/"` > > If I run it on a loop, it breaks the file name into two if the name has a > space > > for f in $LIST; > do > > mv /home/wmuriithi/images/"$f" /home/wmuriithi/archive/images/"$DATE"/ > # echo "rm $f" >> processed.list > echo "rm $f" >> processed.list2 > > done > > I get this error: > > mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/\'004378858': No such file or > directory > mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/(38).jpg\'': No such file or > directory > mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/\'004378858': No such file or > directory > mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/(53).jpg\'': No such file or > directory > > Now, I am curious, why do I get different behaviours above? What's a > better way of handling such a file name? > > Thanks in advance > > William > Others have made some cogent points about the use of parentheses and spaces in file names that I won't repeat, except to say I agree. Another thing I'd strongly suggest is using the "basename" command instead of "cut": your use of cut relies on knowing how deep in the directory structure you are, and that makes the script very fragile. basename just grabs the terminal filename and discards all the directories regardless of how deep you are in the directory tree. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From qwerty172-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 14:16:58 2014 From: qwerty172-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bill Thanis) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:16:58 -0400 Subject: bash script issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try this: ls | while read f ; do echo "$f"; done The for loop uses each individual space separated word as a parameter. The above will pass each name in the 'ls' as if it was on a separate line. You will still have to properly quote the varaiable. Bill On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 1:53 PM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Afternoon, > > I have a list of files that have horrible names and it is forcing me > to improve the intelligence of a script I have been using to clean up > the system after the images have been processed. Sample names are as > below > > '004378858 (152).jpg' > '004384040.jpg' > '004382728.jpg' > '004383192.jpg' > '004375871.jpg' > '004378858 (179).jpg' > '004378858 (155).jpg' > '004378858 (187).jpg' > > > If i run either of the below commands on the console, it list them > properly as above. > > #LIST=`find /home/wmuriithi/images/ -type f | cut -d"/" -f4| sed 's@ > @\\ @g' | sed 's@[(]@\\(@' | sed 's@[)]@\\)@'` > #LIST=`find /home/wmuriithi/images/ -type f | cut -d"/" -f4|sed -e > "s/.*/'&'/"` > > If I run it on a loop, it breaks the file name into two if the name has a > space > > for f in $LIST; > do > > mv /home/wmuriithi/images/"$f" /home/wmuriithi/archive/images/"$DATE"/ > # echo "rm $f" >> processed.list > echo "rm $f" >> processed.list2 > > done > > I get this error: > > mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/\'004378858': No such file or > directory > mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/(38).jpg\'': No such file or > directory > mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/\'004378858': No such file or > directory > mv: cannot stat `/home/wmuriithi/images/(53).jpg\'': No such file or > directory > > Now, I am curious, why do I get different behaviours above? What's a > better way of handling such a file name? > > Thanks in advance > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From qwerty172-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 14:19:57 2014 From: qwerty172-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bill Thanis) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:19:57 -0400 Subject: SElinux In-Reply-To: <20140815231120.ef3446fb9a1b9721bc1681b4-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20140815231120.ef3446fb9a1b9721bc1681b4@eol.ca> Message-ID: There are two very different types of security. The first is security from humans, ie the two examples you gave. The second is security from malicious or error filled programs. SELINUX is mostly about protecting one group of system resources (files) from processes that could cause it problems. Bill On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: > On my home computer and laptops, SElinux is a pain in the butt. > > Who is protected by SElinux? Does it protect the system from rogue > users, or does it protect from external crackers? > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 14:33:07 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:33:07 -0400 Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: References: <20140811192208.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20140818143307.GZ17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 07:11:34AM +0000, Peter wrote: > Let's be honest (warning: I am into VERY small systems which probably have > no room for systemd - but see below): > > The scripts are not the problem. The problem is the daemons and other things > they start/stop, which can be programmed in ways which make them > nonresponsive for a variety of reasons. init(1) has a sane way to cope with > runaway processes, by making them sleep for a bit if they go insane. Zombies > should be dealt with by process group mechanisms which exist, but are not > used by anyone. It is really easy to write a bit of code which registers > "children to be killed in case of process group leader demise" perhaps > directly into /var/run/thedaemon.pid files, to be used by a slightly modded > init(1) when a process dies or runs away. > > Adding systemd is not going to change that. A daemon that dies repeatedly > very quickly will have to be "quarantined" for a while. systemd will not fix > the underlying problem, which is certain daemons are not high quality and > robust. Using systemd to "fix" them is, imho, barking up the wrong tree. > > What systemd *could* have done, is to replace the need for sh(1) and init(1) > in small systems assuming it would have some sort of shell or smnp interface > for control from a shell-less terminal, serial line, or network connection. > It would also have to be rather good at doing system things to replace sh > and init in size, so sh(1) would not be needed at all, as those 2 together > are fairly small (assuming ash or another startup sh compatible shell is > used), and do a LOT of things besides running sysv init scripts. > > The way it is now, I see systemd as an unneeded complication which will > break many many things before starting to work "right" for most people. And > by most people I explicitly exclude "ready made" distribution users a la > ubuntu etc., who are end users, and, who, by their own (!) definition, > should do nothing more than push buttons and be rewarded with actions, > reagrdless how those actions are achieved. > > Let's say I will be interested in systemd on small systems *after* openwrt > and other embedded distributions adopt it *and* the inevitable anguished > help cries on relevant forums die down a bit. That could take a year or two > after they start using it, judging by how things went in the past. I so wish > I am wrong about the time-frame. > > Until then, I see systemd based kernels as a fork... harsh, but a serious > problem for people who need to tinker under the hood frequently, as I have to. I didn't say systemd was a good solution, I just said the scripts are crap. I would love to see a good solution. I saw a comment from Rob Landley about creating a small version of launchd (which I think he intends to name lunchd) as part of his toybox package. He has quite the rant about systemd here: https://forums.darknedgy.net/viewtopic.php?id=3844 And yes for small systems systemd is not an option. I currently don't expect to ever use systemd on the routers we make at work. They are probably nowhere near as small as what you are dealing with though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 14:52:59 2014 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:52:59 -0400 Subject: mailing list problems WAS: Re:No systemd discussion? Message-ID: This is the second systemd thread message I've seen that is a response to Peter (the first being Jamon's response, which started the thread for me). I never received either message from Peter. I have no idea why not, but I have to hope that the move to the new mail server is coming soon and will solve these problems. On 18 August 2014 10:33, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 07:11:34AM +0000, Peter wrote: > > Let's be honest (warning: I am into VERY small systems which probably > have > > no room for systemd - but see below): > > > > The scripts are not the problem. The problem is the daemons and other > things > > they start/stop, which can be programmed in ways which make them > > nonresponsive for a variety of reasons. init(1) has a sane way to cope > with > > runaway processes, by making them sleep for a bit if they go insane. > Zombies > > should be dealt with by process group mechanisms which exist, but are not > > used by anyone. It is really easy to write a bit of code which registers > > "children to be killed in case of process group leader demise" perhaps > > directly into /var/run/thedaemon.pid files, to be used by a slightly > modded > > init(1) when a process dies or runs away. > > > > Adding systemd is not going to change that. A daemon that dies repeatedly > > very quickly will have to be "quarantined" for a while. systemd will not > fix > > the underlying problem, which is certain daemons are not high quality and > > robust. Using systemd to "fix" them is, imho, barking up the wrong tree. > > > > What systemd *could* have done, is to replace the need for sh(1) and > init(1) > > in small systems assuming it would have some sort of shell or smnp > interface > > for control from a shell-less terminal, serial line, or network > connection. > > It would also have to be rather good at doing system things to replace sh > > and init in size, so sh(1) would not be needed at all, as those 2 > together > > are fairly small (assuming ash or another startup sh compatible shell is > > used), and do a LOT of things besides running sysv init scripts. > > > > The way it is now, I see systemd as an unneeded complication which will > > break many many things before starting to work "right" for most people. > And > > by most people I explicitly exclude "ready made" distribution users a la > > ubuntu etc., who are end users, and, who, by their own (!) definition, > > should do nothing more than push buttons and be rewarded with actions, > > reagrdless how those actions are achieved. > > > > Let's say I will be interested in systemd on small systems *after* > openwrt > > and other embedded distributions adopt it *and* the inevitable anguished > > help cries on relevant forums die down a bit. That could take a year or > two > > after they start using it, judging by how things went in the past. I so > wish > > I am wrong about the time-frame. > > > > Until then, I see systemd based kernels as a fork... harsh, but a serious > > problem for people who need to tinker under the hood frequently, as I > have to. > > I didn't say systemd was a good solution, I just said the scripts > are crap. > > I would love to see a good solution. I saw a comment from Rob Landley > about creating a small version of launchd (which I think he intends to > name lunchd) as part of his toybox package. He has quite the rant about > systemd here: https://forums.darknedgy.net/viewtopic.php?id=3844 > > And yes for small systems systemd is not an option. I currently don't > expect to ever use systemd on the routers we make at work. They are > probably nowhere near as small as what you are dealing with though. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 14:58:25 2014 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:58:25 -0400 Subject: mailing list problems WAS: Re:No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > I have no idea why not, but I have to hope that the move to the new mail server is > coming soon and will solve these problems. We have the new mail server setup and ready to go (just waiting for something). If you are interested you can subscribe here: . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 15:32:32 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 11:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash script issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Peter | William Muriithi writes: | > '004378858 (152).jpg' | | One tip: bash has POSIX conventions and one of those is: "any number that | starts with 0 is octal". Yes, OCTAL. Therefore, AVOID using such filenames | most of the time. I don't remember an ordinary shell context where a pathname can be confused with number. Can you give an example? I think that this kind of thing is true in a variety of scripting languages that try to figure out the programmer's intent without explicit typing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 19:24:23 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 15:24:23 -0400 Subject: SElinux In-Reply-To: References: <20140815231120.ef3446fb9a1b9721bc1681b4@eol.ca> Message-ID: <53F252E7.3040804@rogers.com> To get picky, it was written to prevent breaches of confidentiality, in part so that a sysadmin couldn't just copy everything to a thumb drive and walk away. Because of that, it can protect against a program I run from either snooping on or providing bad data to others, and as a side-effect, keep it from getting more permissions that it minimally needs. Rogue users can be walled off from people, but on Linux, that's been a lower priority than rogue programs. --dave [Double irony: NSA software that helps stop snooping, /and/ it's software they don't use themselves, to stop snooping by insiders] On 08/18/2014 10:19 AM, Bill Thanis wrote: > There are two very different types of security. The first is security > from humans, ie the two examples you gave. The second is security from > malicious or error filled programs. > > SELINUX is mostly about protecting one group of system resources > (files) from processes that could cause it problems. > > Bill > > > > On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Howard Gibson > wrote: > > On my home computer and laptops, SElinux is a pain in the butt. > > Who is protected by SElinux? Does it protect the system from > rogue users, or does it protect from external crackers? > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 19:26:43 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 15:26:43 -0400 Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: <20140818143307.GZ17767-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20140811192208.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20140818143307.GZ17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <53F25373.5010409@rogers.com> On 08/18/2014 10:33 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 07:11:34AM +0000, Peter wrote: >> Let's be honest (warning: I am into VERY small systems which probably have >> no room for systemd - but see below): >> >> The scripts are not the problem. The problem is the daemons and other things >> they start/stop, which can be programmed in ways which make them >> nonresponsive for a variety of reasons. init(1) has a sane way to cope with >> runaway processes, by making them sleep for a bit if they go insane. Zombies >> should be dealt with by process group mechanisms which exist, but are not >> used by anyone. It is really easy to write a bit of code which registers >> "children to be killed in case of process group leader demise" perhaps >> directly into /var/run/thedaemon.pid files, to be used by a slightly modded >> init(1) when a process dies or runs away. >> >> Adding systemd is not going to change that. A daemon that dies repeatedly >> very quickly will have to be "quarantined" for a while. systemd will not fix >> the underlying problem, which is certain daemons are not high quality and >> robust. Using systemd to "fix" them is, imho, barking up the wrong tree. >> >> What systemd *could* have done, is to replace the need for sh(1) and init(1) >> in small systems assuming it would have some sort of shell or smnp interface >> for control from a shell-less terminal, serial line, or network connection. >> It would also have to be rather good at doing system things to replace sh >> and init in size, so sh(1) would not be needed at all, as those 2 together >> are fairly small (assuming ash or another startup sh compatible shell is >> used), and do a LOT of things besides running sysv init scripts. >> >> The way it is now, I see systemd as an unneeded complication which will >> break many many things before starting to work "right" for most people. And >> by most people I explicitly exclude "ready made" distribution users a la >> ubuntu etc., who are end users, and, who, by their own (!) definition, >> should do nothing more than push buttons and be rewarded with actions, >> reagrdless how those actions are achieved. >> >> Let's say I will be interested in systemd on small systems *after* openwrt >> and other embedded distributions adopt it *and* the inevitable anguished >> help cries on relevant forums die down a bit. That could take a year or two >> after they start using it, judging by how things went in the past. I so wish >> I am wrong about the time-frame. >> >> Until then, I see systemd based kernels as a fork... harsh, but a serious >> problem for people who need to tinker under the hood frequently, as I have to. > I didn't say systemd was a good solution, I just said the scripts > are crap. > > I would love to see a good solution. I saw a comment from Rob Landley > about creating a small version of launchd (which I think he intends to > name lunchd) as part of his toybox package. He has quite the rant about > systemd here: https://forums.darknedgy.net/viewtopic.php?id=3844 > > And yes for small systems systemd is not an option. I currently don't > expect to ever use systemd on the routers we make at work. They are > probably nowhere near as small as what you are dealing with though. > systemd is like backup. At some time in every company, everyone tries to write the "optimum" local backup program. At some time in every OS, everyone tries to write an "optimal" init program. --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 00:39:00 2014 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 20:39:00 -0400 Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: References: <20140811192208.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20140819003900.GM12293@adb.ca> Peter wrote: > Let's be honest (warning: I am into VERY small systems which probably have > no room for systemd - but see below): I've got an early-revision Beaglebone Black with Angstrom Linux running systemd, and it runs quite nicely in that constrained environment. (Granted, the later-rev with Debian and the additional-package options behind that comes a lot closer to being actually _useful_.) > The scripts are not the problem. The problem is the daemons and other things > they start/stop, which can be programmed in ways which make them > nonresponsive for a variety of reasons. init(1) has a sane way to cope with > runaway processes, by making them sleep for a bit if they go insane. Zombies > should be dealt with by process group mechanisms which exist, but are not > used by anyone. It is really easy to write a bit of code which registers > "children to be killed in case of process group leader demise" perhaps > directly into /var/run/thedaemon.pid files, to be used by a slightly modded > init(1) when a process dies or runs away. I haven't seen very many distros using inittab to respawn anything beyond the traditional getty lines. Most boxes these days use SysV init scripts, which start a daemon once and leave you without if it dies. And the finagling they do to try and find the process they started if you want to stop or restart it does NOT always work. I've seen an attempt at a clean shutdown wedged because of a stop script sucking mud. And other daemons have had strange issues because of crap inherited from the shell of the sysadmin who restarted them. Daemontools did a good job, starting daemons in a clean environment and restarting if needed, but it never got enough traction mostly because of people having issues with the author. I'm not quite out of my third decade as a Unix admin, and was really hoping we'd be past a lot of those very traditional old problems by now. The status quo is NOT perfect, various bits and pieces of solutions have been tried, and at least conceptually systemd pulls all that together and looks a lot like a 21st century init system should look like. However, there's a lot of inertia in the status quo, a *LOT* more systems around than when we moved from the old single rc script to SysV scripts, and it's a major flag day to move to anything new. > The way it is now, I see systemd as an unneeded complication which will > break many many things before starting to work "right" for most people. And > by most people I explicitly exclude "ready made" distribution users a la > ubuntu etc., who are end users, and, who, by their own (!) definition, > should do nothing more than push buttons and be rewarded with actions, > reagrdless how those actions are achieved. The biggest problem I see with systemd is all the bad blood that's sprung up. Lots of people have gotten crossed and are fighting it. People aren't going to upgrade to the next rev of their distro that uses it, daemon authors are going to resist integrating compatibility, nobody is going to publically admit to using it, and people will forget that there ever was an emacs-vs-vi difference of opinion in the nuclear heat of this new flamewar. > Let's say I will be interested in systemd on small systems *after* openwrt > and other embedded distributions adopt it *and* the inevitable anguished > help cries on relevant forums die down a bit. That could take a year or two > after they start using it, judging by how things went in the past. I so wish > I am wrong about the time-frame. I tried an in-place upgrade on an existing system, just to start getting some systemd experience, and you do NOT want to deal with a system with half-baked not-ready-yet daemon scripts for systemd. That box got repaved. > Until then, I see systemd based kernels as a fork... harsh, but a serious > problem for people who need to tinker under the hood frequently, as I have to. And the other problem is that the hooks go all *over* your system without any sensible justification, so it's too easy to conclude that they're trying to be the new Borg and force-assimilate you. See also the Rob Landley posting Len already mentioned. You catch more flies with honey than salt. (Years ago I got a Linux box to behave by showing it a FreeBSD install diskette and having a word or two. Linux should not make me do that again.) -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 02:30:16 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 22:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: <20140818143307.GZ17767-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20140811192208.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20140818143307.GZ17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | I would love to see a good solution. I saw a comment from Rob Landley | about creating a small version of launchd (which I think he intends to | name lunchd) as part of his toybox package. He has quite the rant about | systemd here: https://forums.darknedgy.net/viewtopic.php?id=3844 I didn't start out a GPL fan. I've been driven there by the behaviour of users-of-but-not-contributors-to BSD licensed code. So the idea of moving to a userland copied from Android to replace the current Linux userland does not appeal to me. That's what Landley is proposing. Android's userland is allergic to GPL and that's one of his motivations for avoiding systemd (which is GPL). (I don't know what his goal is. After all, if you want a Linux with an Android userland, that is exactly what Android is.) Landley does make some useful observations. I don't really know systemd but: It seems to be complicated and growing at an immodest rate. I suspect that it is doing too much and is reducing the modularity of the system. The developers seem to have trouble getting along with others. (That can be said of Landley, for what it's worth.) It looks to be a much better solution than the others that have been widely adopted. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 14:50:40 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 10:50:40 -0400 Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: References: <20140811192208.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20140818143307.GZ17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20140819145040.GA17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 10:30:16PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I didn't start out a GPL fan. I've been driven there by the behaviour > of users-of-but-not-contributors-to BSD licensed code. > > So the idea of moving to a userland copied from Android to replace the > current Linux userland does not appeal to me. That's what Landley is > proposing. Android's userland is allergic to GPL and that's one of > his motivations for avoiding systemd (which is GPL). > > (I don't know what his goal is. After all, if you want a Linux with > an Android userland, that is exactly what Android is.) > > Landley does make some useful observations. I don't really know > systemd but: > > It seems to be complicated and growing at an immodest rate. I suspect > that it is doing too much and is reducing the modularity of the > system. > > The developers seem to have trouble getting along with others. (That > can be said of Landley, for what it's worth.) > > It looks to be a much better solution than the others that have been > widely adopted. I think you completely misread what he wrote. I think he is trying to replace some of androids userspace and saying systemd can't do that because android says 'no gpl in userspace'. But it is also possible I misread it. He does a lot of work with embedded systems, including a lot of systems where systemd almost certainly would not fit. I know he is not a fan of gcc or gnu make, and who can blame him. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 15:35:53 2014 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:35:53 -0400 Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: References: <20140811192208.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20140818143307.GZ17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > I didn't start out a GPL fan. I've been driven there by the behaviour > of users-of-but-not-contributors-to BSD licensed code. > Actually, this may be one of the biggest problem that's never acknowledged. The nature of BSD mean progress there is petty slow compared with GPL based software. So its hard to remain compatible. For example, any user space service that support kernel namespaces will be incompatible with BSD. So you either drop BSD support or have a service that's not that great to both platform. The other problem is that Redhat seem to be financing a lot of open source projects out there. And I really respect that. However, that mean they control a lot on the directions projects are going. I really don't think systemd would have been that control oriented if the project had a lot of outside voices. I haven't followed it closely, but tend to feel its a Redhat product that's designed by a small group there. > Landley does make some useful observations. I don't really know > systemd but: > > It seems to be complicated and growing at an immodest rate. I suspect > that it is doing too much and is reducing the modularity of the > system. > > The developers seem to have trouble getting along with others. (That > can be said of Landley, for what it's worth.) > > It looks to be a much better solution than the others that have been > widely adopted. > -- Came to the same conclusion after Debian adopted it. At that point, I warmed up to it as resisting would be too painful. William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 18:25:13 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 14:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: <20140819145040.GA17767-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20140811192208.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20140818143307.GZ17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20140819145040.GA17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | I think you completely misread what he wrote. The link you gave is to a copy of what he wrote. That copy was on an edgy "forum". Here's the original: I firmly believe that the Linux community needs to derive a new workstation OS from Google's Android code the way BSD derived a new system from AT&T's Unix code. Clone the proprietary bits, install on the same hardware, provide our version as a series of upgrades to the preinstalled version where possible until we can get vendors to preinstall our version, and meanwhile be closely compatible with the existing preinstalled version that has the giant userbase. So: he takes it as a given that GPL isn't acceptable. Purely because of Google's license. I do the reverse: Google's code is unacceptable, at least partly because of Google's license. I admit that I don't know what the license clash is. Likely an end-user can install GPLed code, but distribution is forbidden in some manner. You might read some more from Rob's site. See, for example, (He's certainly right about some things.) According to Google, they won't accept GPL or LGPL code into AOSP (except for the Linux kernel). I don't yet see how that prevents me creating an Android derivative that uses LGPL or GPL code. The chance of Google accepting outside code is minor anyway. I guess that there might be different restrictions on programs Google Play App Store. | I think he is trying | to replace some of androids userspace and saying systemd can't do that | because android says 'no gpl in userspace'. But it is also possible I | misread it. I think that you've been intentionally misdirected. Google's Android won't adopt GPLed or LGPLed code except (one presumes reluctantly) for the Kernel. I doubt that they enforce this on downstream (eg. the mythical Linux Desktop derived from Android Open Source Project). And yet: | He does a lot of work with embedded systems, including a lot of systems | where systemd almost certainly would not fit. No idea. If it were done right (to my standards), systemd should fit. But my standards aren't commonly met. | I know he is not a fan of gcc or gnu make, and who can blame him. :) He really doesn't like systemd, and who can blame him. I generally accept many of his arguments but don't agree with his weighting of them. For more technical arguments against systemd (which I am not in a technical position to confidently weight), see some entries in -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 21:14:35 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 17:14:35 -0400 Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: References: <20140811192208.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20140818143307.GZ17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20140819145040.GA17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20140820211435.GB17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 02:25:13PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The link you gave is to a copy of what he wrote. That copy was on an > edgy "forum". > > Here's the original: > > > I firmly believe that the Linux community needs to derive a new > workstation OS from Google's Android code the way BSD derived a new > system from AT&T's Unix code. Clone the proprietary bits, install on > the same hardware, provide our version as a series of upgrades to the > preinstalled version where possible until we can get vendors to > preinstall our version, and meanwhile be closely compatible with the > existing preinstalled version that has the giant userbase. > > So: he takes it as a given that GPL isn't acceptable. Purely because > of Google's license. I do the reverse: Google's code is unacceptable, > at least partly because of Google's license. > > I admit that I don't know what the license clash is. Likely an > end-user can install GPLed code, but distribution is forbidden in some > manner. I understood it as using gpl code in userspace means you can't call it an android device. > You might read some more from Rob's site. See, for example, > > (He's certainly right about some things.) > > According to Google, they won't accept GPL or LGPL code into AOSP > (except for the Linux kernel). I don't yet see how that prevents me > creating an Android derivative that uses LGPL or GPL code. The chance > of Google accepting outside code is minor anyway. > > Well they can prevent you from using their app store and calling it an official android device. > I guess that there might be different restrictions on programs Google > Play App Store. Certainly. > I think that you've been intentionally misdirected. Google's Android > won't adopt GPLed or LGPLed code except (one presumes reluctantly) for > the Kernel. I doubt that they enforce this on downstream (eg. the > mythical Linux Desktop derived from Android Open Source Project). Well I have never been impressed by how android works. I consider it not open source, and it certainly does not seem to consider community input what so ever. The linux kernel seems to have been a convinient base layer in about the same way gnu userspace was a convinient thing for Linus when he wrote the kernel in the begining. > And yet: > Maybe it is OK when google does it, but not if anyone else does. > No idea. If it were done right (to my standards), systemd should fit. > But my standards aren't commonly met. > > He really doesn't like systemd, and who can blame him. > > I generally accept many of his arguments but don't agree with his > weighting of them. Well people have different goals. :) > For more technical arguments against systemd (which I am not in a > technical position to confidently weight), see some entries in > -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 21:49:46 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 17:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: No systemd discussion? In-Reply-To: <20140820211435.GB17767-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20140811192208.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20140818143307.GZ17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20140819145040.GA17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20140820211435.GB17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Well I have never been impressed by how android works. I consider it | not open source, and it certainly does not seem to consider community | input what so ever. So: you don't buy into Landley's vision of all of us switching to a new Linux desktop based on Android. Neither do I. And that's an important part of the background of why he has strong aversion to systemd. That particular argument isn't as important for me. For sentimental reasons, I'd like a "solution" (marketing owns that word but I'm borrowing it) that would work for BSD. BSD folks don't like the GPL (with varying intensity). Fundamentally, I don't see why systemd's license would cause any problems that the Kernel's license doesn't already. I'd like to think of systemd as a userland extension of the kernel (perhaps "OS is the better term, but that has so many meanings now that it has no meaning). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 01:22:22 2014 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 21:22:22 -0400 Subject: Leadwerks Game Engine for Linux Launches on Steam Message-ID: $0.05: It's not FOSS but still a good step for gaming-on-linux in general I think. "Over the last year, Leadwerks has focused on desktop Linux as a platform for creating and playing games. For many users, Leadwerks provides the last missing application they need to move entirely over to Ubuntu or another Linux-based OS. With Leadwerks for Linux now available on Steam, developers can build and play games without ever leaving Linux." "Building Games for Ubuntu with Leadwerks" is a short (< 4m) video introduction -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 http://psema4.com/pubkey.txt http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 01:16:55 2014 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 21:16:55 -0400 Subject: Which process is using which audio playback device? Message-ID: Hello, a quick question with hopefully a quick answer though I haven't turned up anything useful yet in my searches. My laptop is running Kubuntu 14.04. In the KDE System Settings I've set the default audio device to be HDMI out and everything I run is respecting that setting. However, once every 10-20 minutes or so, something is playing a clicking sound through the laptop speakers. It's not a uniform interval and it's not correlated to any user inputs - I can't figure out a pattern to it. How can I audit the use of the audio devices in this system to figure out what's doing this? Thanks, Andrej -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 02:29:11 2014 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 22:29:11 -0400 Subject: Which process is using which audio playback device? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you use TLP on Kubuntu, there are some reports of that causing issue like you mention. -tl On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 9:16 PM, Andrej Marjan wrote: > Hello, a quick question with hopefully a quick answer though I haven't > turned up anything useful yet in my searches. > > My laptop is running Kubuntu 14.04. In the KDE System Settings I've set > the default audio device to be HDMI out and everything I run is respecting > that setting. > > However, once every 10-20 minutes or so, something is playing a clicking > sound through the laptop speakers. It's not a uniform interval and it's not > correlated to any user inputs - I can't figure out a pattern to it. > > How can I audit the use of the audio devices in this system to figure out > what's doing this? > > Thanks, > > Andrej > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 06:09:25 2014 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 02:09:25 -0400 Subject: OT: Where can I get ASUS MemoPad 7 flashed to Cyanogenmod? Message-ID: <20140831060925.GA3831@waltdnes.org> Like the title says, I'd like to get an ASUS MemoPad 7 flashed to Cyanogenmod. Anybody know how or where? I'm willing to pay. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 13:32:39 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 09:32:39 -0400 Subject: OT: Where can I get ASUS MemoPad 7 flashed to Cyanogenmod? In-Reply-To: <20140831060925.GA3831-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20140831060925.GA3831@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: I see some links to sorta one-off hacks to run other firmware distributions on the MemoPad HD 7... http://www.transformerforums.com/forum/asus-memo-pad-hd-7-roms/44244-roms-list-known-roms-asus-memo-pad-hd-7-a.html There is a CyanogenMod 10.1 port... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2689789 A browse around at the options shows that there's a fair bit of "assembly required" and that not all the hardware works with the various Android ports. (Notably, they often don't support the cameras.) There are comments about it being a difficult port due to something called "MTK"; seems to be the MediaTek MTK 8125 chipset, a quad-core ARM SOC. The usual challenge with these devices comes in getting enough data about the hardware to be able to get everything working. Sounds like MediaTek are stingy about data about their chipset, which makes it mighty difficult to get things working. That's *the* classic problem with Android-based devices. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: