From skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 6 22:02:42 2014 From: skrishnan-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Srinivasan Krishnan) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 18:02:42 -0400 Subject: Looking for memcached expertise Message-ID: <1396821762.6273.4.camel@agni.1117.local> Anyone on the list with expertise in memcached? We're looking for someone to help us with configuration, scaling and management. Please drop an email to memcached.help-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org if interested. Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 02:50:59 2014 From: northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 22:50:59 -0400 Subject: Looking for memcached expertise In-Reply-To: <1396821762.6273.4.camel-A/Px0JHlQhldO0WEbvxlxA@public.gmane.org> References: <1396821762.6273.4.camel@agni.1117.local> Message-ID: https://www.usenix.org/conference/nsdi13/technical-sessions/presentation/nishtala What's your trouble? Can the group help? David On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 6:02 PM, Srinivasan Krishnan wrote: > Anyone on the list with expertise in memcached? We're looking for > someone to help us with configuration, scaling and management. Please > drop an email to memcached.help-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org if interested. > > Thanks. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 16:31:13 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 12:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft open sources some of .net Message-ID: I don't know what to make of the move. Partly because I don't touch that world. Miguel de Icaza was there for the announcement. He's even closer to becoming a Microsoft employee :-) Ximian's moral successor Xamarin is involved. The open sourcing of the C# and VB compilers might undercut Xamarin's own compiler. Isn't .net left out of the new world formerly known as Metro? Again, an area where I have no knowledge. Microsoft says that they are not abandoning .net. Windows developers would probably be livid after they got burned by the intro of .net, killing their old ecosystem. So: does this mean anything at all for Linux? Of course we don't have a really coherent equivalent to .NET (I'm not saying that we should). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 16:42:25 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 12:42:25 -0400 Subject: Microsoft open sources some of .net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140407164225.GV17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 07, 2014 at 12:31:13PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > > > I don't know what to make of the move. Partly because I don't touch that > world. > > Miguel de Icaza was there for the announcement. He's even closer to > becoming a Microsoft employee :-) Ximian's moral successor Xamarin is > involved. > > The open sourcing of the C# and VB compilers might undercut Xamarin's own > compiler. > > Isn't .net left out of the new world formerly known as Metro? Again, an > area where I have no knowledge. Microsoft says that they are not > abandoning .net. Windows developers would probably be livid after they > got burned by the intro of .net, killing their old ecosystem. > > So: does this mean anything at all for Linux? Of course we don't have a > really coherent equivalent to .NET (I'm not saying that we should). Metro and windows phone apps both run on top of .net, so no they are not going to abandon that. Silverlight was a subset of .net with a much smaller runtime, although that has somewhat been abandoned. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 17:00:15 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 13:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: interesting tablets Message-ID: There's a new generation of tablets appearing. They have Atom processors, running in 64-bit mode. They seem aggressively priced: maybe Intel is trying to buy its way into this market. These Atoms are much better than the Atoms from years ago which folks have disparaged. These tablets make me dream of running a conventional Linux distro on them, but I don't know the likelihood of that. Last Fall, the Ausus T100 and the Dell Venue 8 pro convertible tablets looked interesting. These ran Windows 8.1 (not RT). They used Atoms in 32 bit mode. One stupid barrier to Linux was 32-bit-only UEFI. No Linux distro supports that. Seems like an easy-to-overcome problem but it doesn't seem to have happened. One good about these is that they had well-integrated keyboards -- conventional Linux distros need keyboards. A new generation of Atom-based tablets seems to be appearing. So far, just for Android. They look interesting: + very nice displays + inexpensive + 64-bit mode - will the firmware supports loading a conventional distro? - are there reasonable keyboard options (eg. ones that link up to form a clamshell, like a notebook)? "Asus MeMO FHD Pad 10.1" 16GB Android 4.2 Tablet With Intel Atom Z2560 Processor." Today only: $229.99 Note: FHD is today's jargon for 1920x1080 (Full High Def). - standard resources: 2G RAM, 16G flash - does NOT say IPS (says "LED" which is true of all displays now, but stating "LED" usually means "Not IPS") http://www.onda-tablet.com/onda-v975i-quad-core-intel-bay-trail-t-9-7-inch-retina-screen-ram-2gb-tablet-pc.html Similar resources (twice the flash). US$209.90 from China. IPS screen, 2048x1536 (nicer resolution and aspect ratio) I asked a bunch of questions on that page but my question hasn't shown up yet. These are a fifth of what I recently paid for an ultrabook. Of course the ultrabook is better in a number of ways, but one of these tablets, with Linux and a clamshell keyboard, might have satisfied most of my requirements. In fact, the size of these tablet (10") might be better than the 13.3" of my netbook. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 17:02:16 2014 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 13:02:16 -0400 Subject: Microsoft open sources some of .net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: mono is .net on Linux, works great, been using it for high level business apps for years. There is no WFP however, except of part of wfp in silverlight. MS is releasing a compiler soon that is supposed to put c# to C, so c# can make its way into some other segments (i.e. kernel dev., etc). What it means for linux is basically nothing to useful unless they opensource wpf and similar, at least that is what I would want to see. Ximians IDE and compiler is just the opensource MonoDevelop but for mobile dev. on android and ios you have to buy their other utilities, but if you are not doing android or ios, unless you need support its just MonoDevelop. -tl On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 12:31 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > < > http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-open-sourcing-of-net-the-back-story-7000028109/?s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61 > > > > > > I don't know what to make of the move. Partly because I don't touch that > world. > > Miguel de Icaza was there for the announcement. He's even closer to > becoming a Microsoft employee :-) Ximian's moral successor Xamarin is > involved. > > The open sourcing of the C# and VB compilers might undercut Xamarin's own > compiler. > > Isn't .net left out of the new world formerly known as Metro? Again, an > area where I have no knowledge. Microsoft says that they are not > abandoning .net. Windows developers would probably be livid after they > got burned by the intro of .net, killing their old ecosystem. > > So: does this mean anything at all for Linux? Of course we don't have a > really coherent equivalent to .NET (I'm not saying that we should). > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 17:13:25 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 13:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: interesting tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | There's a new generation of tablets appearing. They have Atom processors, | running in 64-bit mode. | "Asus MeMO FHD Pad 10.1" 16GB Android 4.2 Tablet With Intel Atom Z2560 | Processor." | Oops: I think that this is from last Fall's generation. 32-bit Atom Z2560 | http://www.onda-tablet.com/onda-v975i-quad-core-intel-bay-trail-t-9-7-inch-retina-screen-ram-2gb-tablet-pc.html This is 64-bit, "Bay Trail T". I'm not sure which processor. The display resolution (higher than 1920x1080) narrows the choices. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 17:18:40 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 13:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft open sources some of .net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: ted leslie | There is no WFP however, except of part of wfp in silverlight. (Googling to find out what that is.) Windows Filtering Platform? You probably meant WPF, "is a graphical subsystem for rendering user interfaces in Windows-based applications" In other words, the (best?) way to get things to the display? Sounds prett fundamental. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 17:36:36 2014 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 13:36:36 -0400 Subject: Microsoft open sources some of .net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: WPF yes, i am working in WFP (and WPF) now and typo the two all the time :( You can use other GUI systems like qt, gtk, etc. -tl On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 1:18 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: ted leslie > > | There is no WFP however, except of part of wfp in silverlight. > > (Googling to find out what that is.) > > Windows Filtering Platform? > > > You probably meant WPF, > > "is a graphical subsystem for rendering user interfaces in > Windows-based applications" > > In other words, the (best?) way to get things to the display? > > Sounds prett fundamental. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 18:01:35 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 14:01:35 -0400 Subject: interesting tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140407180135.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 07, 2014 at 01:00:15PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > There's a new generation of tablets appearing. They have Atom processors, > running in 64-bit mode. > > They seem aggressively priced: maybe Intel is trying to buy its way > into this market. These Atoms are much better than the Atoms from > years ago which folks have disparaged. That's what intel claims everytime a new atom generation is released, and so far every time they have lied. I am going to wait and see before I trust intel's statements about their new atom and performance. > These tablets make me dream of running a conventional Linux distro on > them, but I don't know the likelihood of that. > > Last Fall, the Ausus T100 and the Dell Venue 8 pro convertible tablets > looked interesting. These ran Windows 8.1 (not RT). They used Atoms > in 32 bit mode. One stupid barrier to Linux was 32-bit-only UEFI. No > Linux distro supports that. Seems like an easy-to-overcome problem > but it doesn't seem to have happened. One good about these is > that they had well-integrated keyboards -- conventional Linux distros > need keyboards. > > A new generation of Atom-based tablets seems to be appearing. So far, > just for Android. They look interesting: > > + very nice displays > > + inexpensive > > + 64-bit mode > > - will the firmware supports loading a conventional distro? > > - are there reasonable keyboard options (eg. ones that link up to > form a clamshell, like a notebook)? > > "Asus MeMO FHD Pad 10.1" 16GB Android 4.2 Tablet With Intel Atom Z2560 > Processor." > > Today only: $229.99 > Note: FHD is today's jargon for 1920x1080 (Full High Def). > > - standard resources: 2G RAM, 16G flash > > - does NOT say IPS (says "LED" which is true of all displays now, but > stating "LED" usually means "Not IPS") This review http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Asus-Memo-Pad-FHD-10-Tablet.99907.0.html claims it is IPS. Also the 178 degree viewing angle would tend to indicate it is IPS. Also it is 1920x1200, not 1920x1080, so it is full HD and then some. Almost certainly the same lovely screen as the Asus TF700 has. > http://www.onda-tablet.com/onda-v975i-quad-core-intel-bay-trail-t-9-7-inch-retina-screen-ram-2gb-tablet-pc.html > Similar resources (twice the flash). > US$209.90 from China. > IPS screen, 2048x1536 (nicer resolution and aspect ratio) > I asked a bunch of questions on that page but my question hasn't shown > up yet. > > These are a fifth of what I recently paid for an ultrabook. Of course > the ultrabook is better in a number of ways, but one of these tablets, > with Linux and a clamshell keyboard, might have satisfied most of my > requirements. In fact, the size of these tablet (10") might be better > than the 13.3" of my netbook. I think I will stick with my real laptop. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 18:04:06 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 14:04:06 -0400 Subject: interesting tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140407180406.GX17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 07, 2014 at 01:13:25PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier > > | There's a new generation of tablets appearing. They have Atom processors, > | running in 64-bit mode. > > | "Asus MeMO FHD Pad 10.1" 16GB Android 4.2 Tablet With Intel Atom Z2560 > | Processor." > | > > Oops: > > I think that this is from last Fall's generation. 32-bit Atom > Z2560 > > | http://www.onda-tablet.com/onda-v975i-quad-core-intel-bay-trail-t-9-7-inch-retina-screen-ram-2gb-tablet-pc.html > > This is 64-bit, "Bay Trail T". I'm not sure which processor. The > display resolution (higher than 1920x1080) narrows the choices. At least the new atom uses intel graphics, not the awful powervr crap that they have been using in the past. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 19:55:44 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 15:55:44 -0400 Subject: interesting tablets In-Reply-To: <20140407180135.GW17767-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20140407180135.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <534302C0.8070104@rogers.com> I have a previous atom netbook that I use as my writing-and-dev machine, and it's quite good. To replace it I'll want a machine with flash disk (or cache) and a wodge of memory. The lack of the latter, including video memory, is the current bottleneck on the machine. For command-line compilations it's as fast as a much larger machine. For a memory-hog GUI (eclipse), it's too slow at everything. --dave On 04/07/2014 02:01 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 07, 2014 at 01:00:15PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> There's a new generation of tablets appearing. They have Atom processors, >> running in 64-bit mode. >> >> They seem aggressively priced: maybe Intel is trying to buy its way >> into this market. These Atoms are much better than the Atoms from >> years ago which folks have disparaged. > That's what intel claims everytime a new atom generation is released, > and so far every time they have lied. I am going to wait and see before > I trust intel's statements about their new atom and performance. > >> These tablets make me dream of running a conventional Linux distro on >> them, but I don't know the likelihood of that. >> >> Last Fall, the Ausus T100 and the Dell Venue 8 pro convertible tablets >> looked interesting. These ran Windows 8.1 (not RT). They used Atoms >> in 32 bit mode. One stupid barrier to Linux was 32-bit-only UEFI. No >> Linux distro supports that. Seems like an easy-to-overcome problem >> but it doesn't seem to have happened. One good about these is >> that they had well-integrated keyboards -- conventional Linux distros >> need keyboards. >> >> A new generation of Atom-based tablets seems to be appearing. So far, >> just for Android. They look interesting: >> >> + very nice displays >> >> + inexpensive >> >> + 64-bit mode >> >> - will the firmware supports loading a conventional distro? >> >> - are there reasonable keyboard options (eg. ones that link up to >> form a clamshell, like a notebook)? >> >> "Asus MeMO FHD Pad 10.1" 16GB Android 4.2 Tablet With Intel Atom Z2560 >> Processor." >> >> Today only: $229.99 >> Note: FHD is today's jargon for 1920x1080 (Full High Def). >> >> - standard resources: 2G RAM, 16G flash >> >> - does NOT say IPS (says "LED" which is true of all displays now, but >> stating "LED" usually means "Not IPS") > This review > http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Asus-Memo-Pad-FHD-10-Tablet.99907.0.html > claims it is IPS. Also the 178 degree viewing angle would tend to > indicate it is IPS. Also it is 1920x1200, not 1920x1080, so it is full HD > and then some. Almost certainly the same lovely screen as the Asus > TF700 has. > >> http://www.onda-tablet.com/onda-v975i-quad-core-intel-bay-trail-t-9-7-inch-retina-screen-ram-2gb-tablet-pc.html >> Similar resources (twice the flash). >> US$209.90 from China. >> IPS screen, 2048x1536 (nicer resolution and aspect ratio) >> I asked a bunch of questions on that page but my question hasn't shown >> up yet. >> >> These are a fifth of what I recently paid for an ultrabook. Of course >> the ultrabook is better in a number of ways, but one of these tablets, >> with Linux and a clamshell keyboard, might have satisfied most of my >> requirements. In fact, the size of these tablet (10") might be better >> than the 13.3" of my netbook. > I think I will stick with my real laptop. > -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 21:59:47 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 17:59:47 -0400 Subject: interesting tablets In-Reply-To: References: <20140407180135.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <534302C0.8070104@rogers.com> Message-ID: <53431FD3.6010507@rogers.com> On 04/07/2014 05:38 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: David Collier-Brown > > Good to see you on the list! > > | I have a previous atom netbook that I use as my writing-and-dev machine, > | and it's quite good. To replace it I'll want a machine with flash disk > | (or cache) and a wodge of memory. > > Some netbooks allow for memory upgrades. Typically Windows is > hamstrung and cannot see all you add. But Linux can. Generally 4G is > the limit (some of which you cannot use because some address space is > reserved for the PCI bus). I've upgraded all netbooks that we have. > > | The lack of the latter, including > | video memory, is the current bottleneck on the machine. > > In what way is video memory a limit? (It is just part of main memory > -- there is no "on board memory" for these video systems.) > > | For command-line > | compilations it's as fast as a much larger machine. > > That's surprising. Perhaps you mean "fast enough". The CPU is slower > and the disk is likely slower (but not as significantly). > > | For a memory-hog GUI > | (eclipse), it's too slow at everything. > > A monopolist (Intel, Microsoft, ...) has a few problems. They want to > make the most money. So they want to charge as much as they can, > without reducing their volume so much that their profit goes down. > The solution? Segment the market. > > The Atom used to be about selling cheap machines to folks as second > machines. Or to folks unwilling to pay for a full-priced machine. > Oh, and to take a preemptive hit at OLPC in case it succeeded. And a > half-hearted blocker for ARM. > > Microsoft also wanted to stop Linux's inroads in the netbook market. > > Intel and Microsoft walled off their main markets by restricting the > capabilities of products using the Atom. > > - memory limits (hardware: 32-bit bus) (software: licensing agreements > came with the CPU! Win 7 Starter would not recognize memory beyond > 2G) > > - horrible screen size and resolution limits (via licensing) (ones > that made them not qualified to run Win8 when that came around!) > > - speed limits (Hardware: Atom was slow, but it was sped up when AMD > started to make a superior product, the C-50/60/70 series) > > - terrible GPU. Boosted a few times, possibly as Video became more > important or AMD looked to be a threat. > > The strategy worked. At least for a time. > > - OLPC's pioneering netbook had no mainstream penetration > > - a lot of netbooks were sold (not clear to me if they cannibalized > notebook sales) > > - Linux's great start in the netbook world fizzled spectacularly. > Microsoft accomplished this by almost giving away WinXP and Win7 > Starter. > > - AMD's C-50 limped along. It was a great choice for netbooks just as > that market was fading. > > - few people love netbooks and were soon in the market for something > else. > > Too bad for Intel and Microsoft that the something else seems to have > been tablets and smart phones with ARM processors. So Intel and > Microsoft have been playing catch-up for a few years now. Looks like > a classic case of the innovators dilemma. > > Me? I found uses for selected netbooks. Ones with close to normal > screen resolution (1366x768 or close to it). They were hard to find > or expensive but I found three exceptions for my family. But they > weren't perfect. Each runs Linux. > > I think competition leads to improved products and Intel is having to > work hard to deliver good products to try to catch up to various ARM > products. Luckilly for ARM, they have their own competitive market > that is improving ARM products at quite a clip. > > So: I think these tablets have interesting Intel-subsidized Atom > processors. I love being subsidized. But if it doesn't run desktop > Linux, I don't need it (I already have and enjoy Android tablets and > don't need another). > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I'm limited to: 1600x900 60.0*+ 1280x1024 60.0 1440x900 59.9 1280x720 60.0 1024x768 60.0 on a second display, 1024x600 on the built-in because of some quasi-artificial "video memory" limit. The difference in i/o speed for bunches of small files for c and c++ compiles is quite small, as it's the directory traversal code that's the bottleneck. Pure sequential I/O, as when using a huge Google Refine file, is distinctly slower, and the smaller memory limits hurt, but I also don't run refine very often, and mostly as quasi-batch jobs while watching TV. This little atom machine is fine as as something I use the keyboard on, but as a pad processor for mostly images and A-V, it would either be - I/O bound, or - under-powered (;-)) --dave [nice to be back] -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 7 21:38:36 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 17:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: interesting tablets In-Reply-To: <534302C0.8070104-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20140407180135.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <534302C0.8070104@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: David Collier-Brown Good to see you on the list! | I have a previous atom netbook that I use as my writing-and-dev machine, | and it's quite good. To replace it I'll want a machine with flash disk | (or cache) and a wodge of memory. Some netbooks allow for memory upgrades. Typically Windows is hamstrung and cannot see all you add. But Linux can. Generally 4G is the limit (some of which you cannot use because some address space is reserved for the PCI bus). I've upgraded all netbooks that we have. | The lack of the latter, including | video memory, is the current bottleneck on the machine. In what way is video memory a limit? (It is just part of main memory -- there is no "on board memory" for these video systems.) | For command-line | compilations it's as fast as a much larger machine. That's surprising. Perhaps you mean "fast enough". The CPU is slower and the disk is likely slower (but not as significantly). | For a memory-hog GUI | (eclipse), it's too slow at everything. A monopolist (Intel, Microsoft, ...) has a few problems. They want to make the most money. So they want to charge as much as they can, without reducing their volume so much that their profit goes down. The solution? Segment the market. The Atom used to be about selling cheap machines to folks as second machines. Or to folks unwilling to pay for a full-priced machine. Oh, and to take a preemptive hit at OLPC in case it succeeded. And a half-hearted blocker for ARM. Microsoft also wanted to stop Linux's inroads in the netbook market. Intel and Microsoft walled off their main markets by restricting the capabilities of products using the Atom. - memory limits (hardware: 32-bit bus) (software: licensing agreements came with the CPU! Win 7 Starter would not recognize memory beyond 2G) - horrible screen size and resolution limits (via licensing) (ones that made them not qualified to run Win8 when that came around!) - speed limits (Hardware: Atom was slow, but it was sped up when AMD started to make a superior product, the C-50/60/70 series) - terrible GPU. Boosted a few times, possibly as Video became more important or AMD looked to be a threat. The strategy worked. At least for a time. - OLPC's pioneering netbook had no mainstream penetration - a lot of netbooks were sold (not clear to me if they cannibalized notebook sales) - Linux's great start in the netbook world fizzled spectacularly. Microsoft accomplished this by almost giving away WinXP and Win7 Starter. - AMD's C-50 limped along. It was a great choice for netbooks just as that market was fading. - few people love netbooks and were soon in the market for something else. Too bad for Intel and Microsoft that the something else seems to have been tablets and smart phones with ARM processors. So Intel and Microsoft have been playing catch-up for a few years now. Looks like a classic case of the innovators dilemma. Me? I found uses for selected netbooks. Ones with close to normal screen resolution (1366x768 or close to it). They were hard to find or expensive but I found three exceptions for my family. But they weren't perfect. Each runs Linux. I think competition leads to improved products and Intel is having to work hard to deliver good products to try to catch up to various ARM products. Luckilly for ARM, they have their own competitive market that is improving ARM products at quite a clip. So: I think these tablets have interesting Intel-subsidized Atom processors. I love being subsidized. But if it doesn't run desktop Linux, I don't need it (I already have and enjoy Android tablets and don't need another). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 8 02:39:08 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: interesting tablets In-Reply-To: <53431FD3.6010507-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20140407180135.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <534302C0.8070104@rogers.com> <53431FD3.6010507@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: David Collier-Brown | I'm limited to: | 1600x900 60.0*+ | 1280x1024 60.0 | 1440x900 59.9 | 1280x720 60.0 | 1024x768 60.0 | on a second display, 1024x600 on the built-in because of some | quasi-artificial "video memory" limit. Wow. The early Atoms used a 945GSE chipset with gma950 video which should handle up to 2048x1536 at 75Hz according to Intel (I've read somewhere that these chipsets were limited to 2G of RAM whereas I said 4G was the limit.) Perhaps if you trun off the built-in display it can get higher res. I've heard that the widths get added. (1600 + 1024) x 900 might be challenging. A 1600 x 900 x 4 frame buffer only takes 5.76MB -- not actually very much. | The difference in i/o speed for bunches of small files for c and c++ | compiles is quite small, as it's the directory | traversal code that's the bottleneck. Surely not the code. That'd be sad. But I guess that all relevant directories could be in the cache. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 8 12:07:51 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 08:07:51 -0400 Subject: interesting tablets In-Reply-To: References: <20140407180135.GW17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <534302C0.8070104@rogers.com> <53431FD3.6010507@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5343E697.9000706@rogers.com> On 04/07/2014 10:39 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Wow. The early Atoms used a 945GSE chipset with gma950 video which > should handle up to 2048x1536 at 75Hz according to Intel > > > (I've read somewhere that these chipsets were limited to 2G of RAM > whereas I said 4G was the limit.) > > Perhaps if you trun off the built-in display it can get higher res. > I've heard that the widths get added. (1600 + 1024) x 900 might be > challenging. Yes, if you position them adjacent to one another, as I do, it maps a rectangular area containing both displays. --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-3ZSMZGRXU0K2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 8 12:48:22 2014 From: me-3ZSMZGRXU0K2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (staticsafe) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 08:48:22 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [oss-security] OpenSSL 1.0.1 TLS/DTLS hearbeat information disclosure CVE-2014-0160 In-Reply-To: <20140407214346.61e73dde-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20140407214346.61e73dde@redhat.com> Message-ID: <5343F016.6090001@staticsafe.ca> Patch your boxes and remember to restart daemons/programs that use OpenSSL. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [oss-security] OpenSSL 1.0.1 TLS/DTLS hearbeat information disclosure CVE-2014-0160 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 21:43:46 +0200 From: Tomas Hoger Reply-To: oss-security-ZwoEplunGu1jrUoiu81ncdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org To: oss-security-ZwoEplunGu1jrUoiu81ncdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Hi! There's a new OpenSSL release 1.0.1g that fixes information leak issue: http://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140407.txt http://git.openssl.org/gitweb/?p=openssl.git;a=commitdiff;h=96db902 http://heartbleed.com/ -- Tomas Hoger / Red Hat Security Response Team -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 8 15:43:05 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 11:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The Heartbleed Bug is a serious vulnerability in OpenSSL (fwd) Message-ID: This bug is in all current Linux systems. It is serious. What should you do? (1) Avoid things involving OpenSSL. You might not be using OpenSSL anyway. (2) Do updates in a day or so when the fixes ought to be out. More details: OpenSSL is a library used to for SSL and TLS, the crypto behind HTTPS (secure web sites). And a bunch of other things. I think that Firefox and Chrome use a different implementation (NSS) and should be safe. (Interestingly, Google announced recently that it intends to migrate Chrome to OpenSSL.) OpenSSL typically would be used for server processes and a few clients (mail server and client, web servers, OpenVPN, ...). Some things would be using GnuTLS instead of OpenSSL. Here are the not-yet-released Fedora updates: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/openssl/ This is one Patch Tuesday we share with the Windows folk (and the last one for WinXP). ---------- Forwarded message ---------- X-Spam-Level: From: Edwin Chu To: cryptography-of7zbby7T3pWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org, cryptography-JWVWRpNfo5ceIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 14:53:06 -0700 Subject: [Cryptography] The Heartbleed Bug is a serious vulnerability in OpenSSL Hi A latest story for OpenSSL http://heartbleed.com/ The Heartbleed Bug is a serious vulnerability in the popular OpenSSL cryptographic software library. This weakness allows stealing the information protected, under normal conditions, by the SSL/TLS encryption used to secure the Internet. SSL/TLS provides communication security and privacy over the Internet for applications such as web, email, instant messaging (IM) and some virtual private networks (VPNs). The Heartbleed bug allows anyone on the Internet to read the memory of the systems protected by the vulnerable versions of the OpenSSL software. This compromises the secret keys used to identify the service providers and to encrypt the traffic, the names and passwords of the users and the actual content. This allows attackers to eavesdrop communications, steal data directly from the services and users and to impersonate services and users. ed -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 8 16:06:26 2014 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 12:06:26 -0400 Subject: The Heartbleed Bug is a serious vulnerability in OpenSSL (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53441E82.5000706@alteeve.ca> CentOS, RHEL and Fedora updates came out last night, under 2 hours from the CVE to patch availability, I believe. Lots of folks pulled late nights yesterday... Note that anyon effected should replace their SSL certs. It's probably not a bad idea to update your passwords/keys of anything stored in memory, like LUKS encryption keys, SSL certs, etc. On 08/04/14 11:43 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > This bug is in all current Linux systems. It is serious. > > What should you do? > (1) Avoid things involving OpenSSL. You might not be using OpenSSL > anyway. > (2) Do updates in a day or so when the fixes ought to be out. > > More details: > > OpenSSL is a library used to for SSL and TLS, the crypto behind HTTPS > (secure web sites). And a bunch of other things. > > I think that Firefox and Chrome use a different implementation (NSS) and > should be safe. (Interestingly, Google announced recently that it > intends to migrate Chrome to OpenSSL.) > > OpenSSL typically would be used for server processes and a few clients > (mail server and client, web servers, OpenVPN, ...). > > Some things would be using GnuTLS instead of OpenSSL. > > Here are the not-yet-released Fedora updates: > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/openssl/ > > This is one Patch Tuesday we share with the Windows folk (and the last > one for WinXP). > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > X-Spam-Level: > From: Edwin Chu > To: cryptography-of7zbby7T3pWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org, cryptography-JWVWRpNfo5ceIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org > Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 14:53:06 -0700 > Subject: [Cryptography] The Heartbleed Bug is a serious vulnerability in OpenSSL > > Hi > > A latest story for OpenSSL > > http://heartbleed.com/ > > The Heartbleed Bug is a serious vulnerability in the popular OpenSSL > cryptographic software library. This weakness allows stealing the > information protected, under normal conditions, by the SSL/TLS encryption > used to secure the Internet. SSL/TLS provides communication security and > privacy over the Internet for applications such as web, email, instant > messaging (IM) and some virtual private networks (VPNs). > > The Heartbleed bug allows anyone on the Internet to read the memory of the > systems protected by the vulnerable versions of the OpenSSL software. This > compromises the secret keys used to identify the service providers and to > encrypt the traffic, the names and passwords of the users and the actual > content. This allows attackers to eavesdrop communications, steal data > directly from the services and users and to impersonate services and users. > > > ed > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 8 16:33:11 2014 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 12:33:11 -0400 Subject: openssl bug patching Message-ID: <534424C7.8010803@gmail.com> System admins worldwide are busy today. Every Linux server should be checked against the openSSL bug. http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/07/massive-security-bug-in-openssl-could-effect-a-huge-chunk-of-the-internet/ Ubuntu 10+11 dont seem to be vulnerable. Ubuntu 12+13 seem to be vulnerable. I have not confirmed this yet. I run other Linux distros of course and those must be checked as well. Apparently from online sources, you do not need 1.01g to be secure. That statement seems to be correct. If you have an older openssl that is not vulnerable. I have a numbner of Ubuntu 10+11 servers that do not have the bug. I would prefer to check against the verified list of openssl versions that do have the bug. Teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 8 16:43:26 2014 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 12:43:26 -0400 Subject: openssl bug patching In-Reply-To: <534424C7.8010803-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <534424C7.8010803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5344272E.40503@gmail.com> * OpenSSL 1.0.1 through 1.0.1f (inclusive) are vulnerable * * OpenSSL 1.0.1g is NOT vulnerable * OpenSSL 1.0.0 branch is NOT vulnerable * OpenSSL 0.9.8 branch is NOT vulnerable On 4/8/2014 12:33 PM, teddy wrote: > > System admins worldwide are busy today. > Every Linux server should be checked against the openSSL bug. > > http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/07/massive-security-bug-in-openssl-could-effect-a-huge-chunk-of-the-internet/ > > > Ubuntu 10+11 dont seem to be vulnerable. > Ubuntu 12+13 seem to be vulnerable. > I have not confirmed this yet. > > I run other Linux distros of course and those must be checked as well. > > Apparently from online sources, you do not need 1.01g to be secure. > That statement seems to be correct. > If you have an older openssl that is not vulnerable. > I have a numbner of Ubuntu 10+11 servers that do not have the bug. > I would prefer to check against the verified list of openssl versions > that do have the bug. > > Teddy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 8 18:22:10 2014 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 14:22:10 -0400 Subject: openssl bug patching Message-ID: <53443E52.7060104@gmail.com> http://www.tux1.ca/wp/?p=45 System admins worldwide are busy today. Every Linux server should be checked against the openSSL bug. http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/07/massive-security-bug-in-openssl-could-effect-a-huge-chunk-of-the-internet/ Ubuntu 10+11 dont seem to be vulnerable. Ubuntu 12+13 seem to be vulnerable. I have not confirmed this yet. I run other Linux distros of course and those must be checked as well. Apparently from online sources, you do not need 1.01g to be secure. That statement seems to be correct. If you have an older openssl that is not vulnerable. I have a numbner of Ubuntu 10+11 servers that do not have the bug. I would prefer to check against the verified list of openssl versions that do have the bug. Teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 8 18:53:07 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 14:53:07 -0400 Subject: Dinner Plans Message-ID: I'm not sure if anyone has a particular plan for dinner tonight before the GTALUG meeting. Possibly this won't make it through in time to be useful, as I understand there has been a server outage at the hosting provider :-(. At any rate, I'm planning to visit Z-Teca, at 66 Gerrard St E, at around 6pm. If others wish to take a similar trajectory, that's great. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From qwerty172-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 8 19:02:15 2014 From: qwerty172-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bill Thanis) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 15:02:15 -0400 Subject: Dinner Plans In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It got to me, but unfortunately I will be missing dinner plans altogether (and part of tlug). I will definitely make beer. Bill On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 2:53 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > I'm not sure if anyone has a particular plan for dinner tonight before the > GTALUG meeting. > > Possibly this won't make it through in time to be useful, as I understand > there has been a server outage at the hosting provider :-(. > > At any rate, I'm planning to visit Z-Teca, at 66 Gerrard St E, at around > 6pm. If others wish to take a similar trajectory, that's great. > > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 9 00:09:30 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 20:09:30 -0400 Subject: Shutdown kde correctly from command-line * KDE Community Forums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is a discussion of the shutdown question http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=88022 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 9 00:27:34 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 20:27:34 -0400 Subject: Mageia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Message-ID: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mageia The latest iteration of Mandrake aka Mandriva aka... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 9 02:12:32 2014 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 22:12:32 -0400 Subject: Shutdown kde correctly from command-line * KDE Community Forums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 8:09 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > Here is a discussion of the shutdown question > > http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=88022 Fascinating, and quite complicated. I don't have context for this discussion but for completeness, I've always used kdeinit4_shutdown remotely, and it's always seemed to work correctly and simply. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 9 14:29:14 2014 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 10:29:14 -0400 Subject: The Heartbleed Bug is a serious vulnerability in OpenSSL (fwd) In-Reply-To: <53441E82.5000706-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <53441E82.5000706@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: For anyone who wants to test their site: http://filippo.io/Heartbleed/ It seems to be limited, though. On 8 April 2014 12:06, Digimer wrote: > CentOS, RHEL and Fedora updates came out last night, under 2 hours from > the CVE to patch availability, I believe. Lots of folks pulled late nights > yesterday... > > Note that anyon effected should replace their SSL certs. It's probably not > a bad idea to update your passwords/keys of anything stored in memory, like > LUKS encryption keys, SSL certs, etc. > > > On 08/04/14 11:43 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> This bug is in all current Linux systems. It is serious. >> >> What should you do? >> (1) Avoid things involving OpenSSL. You might not be using OpenSSL >> anyway. >> (2) Do updates in a day or so when the fixes ought to be out. >> >> More details: >> >> OpenSSL is a library used to for SSL and TLS, the crypto behind HTTPS >> (secure web sites). And a bunch of other things. >> >> I think that Firefox and Chrome use a different implementation (NSS) and >> should be safe. (Interestingly, Google announced recently that it >> intends to migrate Chrome to OpenSSL.) >> >> OpenSSL typically would be used for server processes and a few clients >> (mail server and client, web servers, OpenVPN, ...). >> >> Some things would be using GnuTLS instead of OpenSSL. >> >> Here are the not-yet-released Fedora updates: >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/openssl/ >> >> This is one Patch Tuesday we share with the Windows folk (and the last >> one for WinXP). >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> X-Spam-Level: >> From: Edwin Chu >> To: cryptography-of7zbby7T3pWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org, cryptography-JWVWRpNfo5ceIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org >> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 14:53:06 -0700 >> Subject: [Cryptography] The Heartbleed Bug is a serious vulnerability in >> OpenSSL >> >> Hi >> >> A latest story for OpenSSL >> >> http://heartbleed.com/ >> >> The Heartbleed Bug is a serious vulnerability in the popular OpenSSL >> cryptographic software library. This weakness allows stealing the >> information protected, under normal conditions, by the SSL/TLS encryption >> used to secure the Internet. SSL/TLS provides communication security and >> privacy over the Internet for applications such as web, email, instant >> messaging (IM) and some virtual private networks (VPNs). >> >> The Heartbleed bug allows anyone on the Internet to read the memory of the >> systems protected by the vulnerable versions of the OpenSSL software. This >> compromises the secret keys used to identify the service providers and to >> encrypt the traffic, the names and passwords of the users and the actual >> content. This allows attackers to eavesdrop communications, steal data >> directly from the services and users and to impersonate services and >> users. >> >> >> ed >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > > -- > Digimer > Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ > What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without > access to education? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 9 14:39:33 2014 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 10:39:33 -0400 Subject: The Heartbleed Bug is a serious vulnerability in OpenSSL (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <53441E82.5000706@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <53455BA5.50300@rogers.com> Tim Tisdall wrote: > For anyone who wants to test their site: http://filippo.io/Heartbleed/ > My IMAP server appears OK. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 9 15:21:42 2014 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 11:21:42 -0400 Subject: The Heartbleed Bug is a serious vulnerability in OpenSSL (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <53441E82.5000706@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <53456586.3090503@utoronto.ca> On 04/09/2014 10:29 AM, Tim Tisdall wrote: > For anyone who wants to test their site: http://filippo.io/Heartbleed/ > > It seems to be limited, though. https://gist.githubusercontent.com/sh1n0b1/10100394/raw/4f24ff250124a03ad2d3d6010b6402c3a483d2f3/ssltest.py is easy to use locally. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 9 18:09:46 2014 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 14:09:46 -0400 Subject: BitcoinExpo 2014 Message-ID: <53458CEA.20206@gmail.com> http://bitcoinexpo.ca/ This Friday Saturday and Sunday. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 9 18:34:18 2014 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 14:34:18 -0400 Subject: The Heartbleed Bug is a serious vulnerability in OpenSSL (fwd) In-Reply-To: <53456586.3090503-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <53441E82.5000706@alteeve.ca> <53456586.3090503@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: I used that python script and was told that a particular server isn't vulnerable. But the http://filippo.io/Heartbleed/ site says it is vulnerable. On 9 April 2014 11:21, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 04/09/2014 10:29 AM, Tim Tisdall wrote: > > For anyone who wants to test their site: http://filippo.io/Heartbleed/ > > > > It seems to be limited, though. > > > https://gist.githubusercontent.com/sh1n0b1/10100394/raw/4f24ff250124a03ad2d3d6010b6402c3a483d2f3/ssltest.py > is easy to use locally. > > Cheers, Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 9 22:04:39 2014 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 18:04:39 -0400 Subject: git/github training needed Message-ID: Does anyone in the Toronto area do git (and github) training for groups? My work is looking, we probably need a day or two of training. Formal quotes would be required at some point, but right now I just need to know what's available. Thanks. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 10 13:19:50 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014 09:19:50 -0400 Subject: git/github training needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53469A76.3070903@rogers.com> Funny, that came up at UU last night. I'd write Drew and ask if he can make a credible offer... --dave On 04/09/2014 06:04 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > Does anyone in the Toronto area do git (and github) training for > groups? My work is looking, we probably need a day or two of > training. Formal quotes would be required at some point, but right > now I just need to know what's available. Thanks. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 13 21:47:38 2014 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 17:47:38 -0400 Subject: Fwd: The open source ready Linksys WRT1900AC wireless router is here! FREE Shipping for a limited time only. In-Reply-To: <267b432f8ed7f266f2b68598ae25f873-g1cJ1KebjDTjBgmqvBGHU0EVdQwpja9TAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <267b432f8ed7f266f2b68598ae25f873@www.newslettergateway.com> Message-ID: <534B05FA.8080402@rogers.com> I received this ad today. This is the first router I've ever seen that's designed for people who work with Linux, though I know some models are easy enough to configure for it. Has anyone configured openWRT to connect via Freenet6 6in4 IPv6 tunnel? The source code for the client is available for download. I currently have it running on my router/firewall, which is an old computer running Linux. http://www.gogo6.com/freenet6/tunnelbroker -------- Original Message -------- Subject: The open source ready Linksys WRT1900AC wireless router is here! FREE Shipping for a limited time only. Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 11:01:04 -0500 From: NCIX Newsletter Reply-To: news-xpYInA5xrwNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org To: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org ncix.com - Canada's Premier Computer Store - Great Technology, Service and Selection. To ensure delivery to your inbox, please add *news-xpYInA5xrwNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org* to your address book. If you are having problems viewing this email, please click here. NCIX.com NCIX.com Send us a message Weekly Sale | Shipping Deals | Instant Rebates Please note all prices are subjected to change without notice, while quantities last. Image may not be accurate as shown. Products may sell out before you receive this newsletter. Please check NCIX.com every Wednesday and Friday evening for the latest promotions and current availability of our promotions. NCIX is not responsible for typographical errors. ? 2014 NCIX.com/Netlink Computer Inc. All rights reserved. If you no longer wish to receive email updates, you can remove your email address from this mailing list by clicking here: Unsubscribe If you would like to update your contact information, click here: Update Sent from: NCIX.com #13720 Mayfield Place Richmond, B.C. V6V 2E4, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 13 21:57:11 2014 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 17:57:11 -0400 Subject: Fwd: The open source ready Linksys WRT1900AC wireless router is here! FREE Shipping for a limited time only. In-Reply-To: <534B05FA.8080402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <267b432f8ed7f266f2b68598ae25f873@www.newslettergateway.com> <534B05FA.8080402@rogers.com> Message-ID: <534B0837.4080300@rogers.com> I should have just sent the link for that item, instead of forwarding the entire email. http://www.newslettergateway.com/list/link.php?M=90743&N=897&L=14143&F=H James Knott wrote: > I received this ad today. This is the first router I've ever seen > that's designed for people who work with Linux, though I know some > models are easy enough to configure for it. Has anyone configured > openWRT to connect via Freenet6 6in4 IPv6 tunnel? The source code for > the client is available for download. I currently have it running on my > router/firewall, which is an old computer running Linux. > > http://www.gogo6.com/freenet6/tunnelbroker > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: The open source ready Linksys WRT1900AC wireless router is > here! FREE Shipping for a limited time only. > Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 11:01:04 -0500 > From: NCIX Newsletter > Reply-To: news-xpYInA5xrwNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org > To: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > > > > ncix.com - Canada's Premier Computer Store - Great Technology, Service > and Selection. > To ensure delivery to your inbox, please add *news-xpYInA5xrwNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org* to your > address book. > If you are having problems viewing this email, please click here. > > NCIX.com > > NCIX.com > > Send us a message > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 14 11:05:28 2014 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 07:05:28 -0400 Subject: Fwd: The open source ready Linksys WRT1900AC wireless router is here! FREE Shipping for a limited time only. In-Reply-To: <534B05FA.8080402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <267b432f8ed7f266f2b68598ae25f873@www.newslettergateway.com> <534B05FA.8080402@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 13 April 2014 17:47, James Knott wrote: > This is the first router I've ever seen > that's designed for people who work with Linux, though I know some > models are easy enough to configure for it. The WRT54GL was designed for Linux support. That's what the "L" in the name stands for. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 14 12:13:16 2014 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 08:13:16 -0400 Subject: Fwd: The open source ready Linksys WRT1900AC wireless router is here! FREE Shipping for a limited time only. In-Reply-To: References: <267b432f8ed7f266f2b68598ae25f873@www.newslettergateway.com> <534B05FA.8080402@rogers.com> Message-ID: <534BD0DC.8050109@rogers.com> Scott Allen wrote: > On 13 April 2014 17:47, James Knott wrote: >> This is the first router I've ever seen >> that's designed for people who work with Linux, though I know some >> models are easy enough to configure for it. > The WRT54GL was designed for Linux support. That's what the "L" in the > name stands for. > > I'm aware of that and I even have one. It was the way this one was promoted as being targeted for people to modify etc. that caught my eye. While the WRT52GL and others could be modified, that wasn't the main selling point of them. It would be like Ford or GM claiming how easy it is to modify their vehicles. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 14 13:29:04 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 09:29:04 -0400 Subject: Fwd: The open source ready Linksys WRT1900AC wireless router is here! FREE Shipping for a limited time only. In-Reply-To: References: <267b432f8ed7f266f2b68598ae25f873@www.newslettergateway.com> <534B05FA.8080402@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20140414132903.GY17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 07:05:28AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: > The WRT54GL was designed for Linux support. That's what the "L" in the > name stands for. > Well it isn't linux support, but rather that it runs linux. The vxworks models had much worse performance than the original linux versions (As far as I recall the v5 of the WRT54G was when they moved it to vxworks). vxworks was so not a router OS, and I don't think Linksys had considered that before deciding to change the OS to save flash and ram because vxworks was smaller and didn't have the GPL thing to deal with. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wwitteman-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 14 13:34:11 2014 From: wwitteman-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Witteman) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 09:34:11 -0400 Subject: Fwd: The open source ready Linksys WRT1900AC wireless router is here! FREE Shipping for a limited time only. In-Reply-To: <20140414132903.GY17767-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <267b432f8ed7f266f2b68598ae25f873@www.newslettergateway.com> <534B05FA.8080402@rogers.com> <20140414132903.GY17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: For an open source router, I find this one interesting: http://www.buffalotech.com/products/wireless/open-source-dd-wrt/airstation-highpower-n450-gigabit-dd-wrt-wireless-router It is apparently running DD-WRT out of the box. I don't know how easy it is to upgrade, but I am quite tempted by it just because I like to incentivize companies to make computer products that I actually own, rather than appliances or hardware that I am effectively licensing rather than purchasing. On 14 April 2014 09:29, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 07:05:28AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: >> The WRT54GL was designed for Linux support. That's what the "L" in the >> name stands for. >> > > Well it isn't linux support, but rather that it runs linux. The vxworks > models had much worse performance than the original linux versions (As > far as I recall the v5 of the WRT54G was when they moved it to vxworks). > > vxworks was so not a router OS, and I don't think Linksys had considered > that before deciding to change the OS to save flash and ram because > vxworks was smaller and didn't have the GPL thing to deal with. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 14 17:20:20 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 13:20:20 -0400 Subject: Fwd: The open source ready Linksys WRT1900AC wireless router is here! FREE Shipping for a limited time only. In-Reply-To: References: <267b432f8ed7f266f2b68598ae25f873@www.newslettergateway.com> <534B05FA.8080402@rogers.com> <20140414132903.GY17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20140414172020.GZ17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 09:34:11AM -0400, William Witteman wrote: > For an open source router, I find this one interesting: > > http://www.buffalotech.com/products/wireless/open-source-dd-wrt/airstation-highpower-n450-gigabit-dd-wrt-wireless-router > > It is apparently running DD-WRT out of the box. I don't know how easy > it is to upgrade, but I am quite tempted by it just because I like to > incentivize companies to make computer products that I actually own, > rather than appliances or hardware that I am effectively licensing > rather than purchasing. I was told by someone recently (I forget who), that DD-WRT doesn't necesarily mean it is that open. Some people are certainly describing DD-WRT as the closed source version of OpenWRT with less features these days. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 14 17:54:57 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 13:54:57 -0400 Subject: Fwd: The open source ready Linksys WRT1900AC wireless router is here! FREE Shipping for a limited time only. In-Reply-To: <20140414172020.GZ17767-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <267b432f8ed7f266f2b68598ae25f873@www.newslettergateway.com> <534B05FA.8080402@rogers.com> <20140414132903.GY17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20140414172020.GZ17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I'm running DD-WRT on my DIR-632, reasonably happily. Regrettably, it has never become supported by OpenWRT http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/d-link/dir-632 While there have been attempts at alpha "releases", there weren't enough interested to get it up to scratch. There are some "functional" analyses that try to explain why OpenWRT is "better" than DD-WRT (e.g. - < http://pjrlost.blogspot.ca/2011/09/dd-wrt-vs-openwrt-openwrt-for-me.html>). There's a bif a natural "dd-wrt is older and has more crufty stuff in it" issue that is merely a chronological artifact. Looking at it organizationally, OpenWRT is an SPI organization (e.g. - a not-for-profit alongside such other well-known ones as Debian, PostgreSQL, LibreOffice, and such), whereas DD-WRT is a private organization that does some "dueling licensing" and such, and it looks like the owners would be willing to do proprietary things with Their Code if it seemed attractive to do so. (They seem to sell traditional "proprietary" licenses to DD-WRT.) I'd be willing to pay a bit more for a router that runs OpenWRT perfectly. Not so much that I'd burn my DIR-632 and start over, mind you ;-), when it's working fine for me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 14 18:15:22 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 14:15:22 -0400 Subject: Anyone bitten by the "Yahoo hates mailing-lists" bug yet? Message-ID: <534C25BA.5020203@rogers.com> Yahoo US, but not Canada, has decided that DMARC is ready for prime time, and turned it on, thus cutting off all yahoo-email users from any mailing lists they're on. The IETF, which hasn't put it onto the standards track yet is annoyed: they just got cut off! YahooCanada, who delivers my home email for Rogers, *reputedly* has not yet cut any Canadians off. Anyone observed any oddness? The symptoms are - if you're using yahoo mail, you don't get any mail from your lists - if you're not a yahoo mail user, everything you send to the list bounces back at least once, and often once for each yahoo-email-victim on the list. --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 14 19:15:51 2014 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 15:15:51 -0400 Subject: Anyone bitten by the "Yahoo hates mailing-lists" bug yet? In-Reply-To: <534C25BA.5020203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <534C25BA.5020203@rogers.com> Message-ID: SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data: host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com [74.125.142.26]: 550-5.7.1 Unauthenticated email from yahoo.com is not accepted due to domain's 550-5.7.1 DMARC policy. Please contact administrator of yahoo.com domain if 550-5.7.1 this was a legitimate mail. Please visit 550-5.7.1 http://support.google.com/mail/answer/2451690 to learn about DMARC 550 5.7.1 initiative. gw5si11512838icb.184 - gsmtp I have servers which forward email to gmail accounts. If there's any issues I get emails sent to me about the issue. So far, all of these messages I've gotten are spam messages pretending to be from yahoo accounts. On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:15 PM, David Collier-Brown wrote: > Yahoo US, but not Canada, has decided that DMARC is ready for prime > time, and turned it on, thus cutting off all yahoo-email users from any > mailing lists they're on. The IETF, which hasn't put it onto the > standards track yet is annoyed: they just got cut off! YahooCanada, who > delivers my home email for Rogers, *reputedly* has not yet cut any > Canadians off. > > Anyone observed any oddness? > > The symptoms are > - if you're using yahoo mail, you don't get any mail from your lists > - if you're not a yahoo mail user, everything you send to the list > bounces back at least once, and often once for each yahoo-email-victim > on the list. > > --dave > > -- > David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify > System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest > davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 14:01:10 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 10:01:10 -0400 Subject: Thanks for the feedback on Yahoo in Canada right now... Message-ID: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> ... The next step is to figure out what to do about it. I've been thinking of it as a DDoS attack on the lists, but a colleague pointed out it's more like censorship of Yahoo victims, and that it's likely to start a suit in the US. At the invitation of ISOC* Canada, I've posted a review at http://www.internetsociety.ca/have-you-been-affected-by-yahoo-mails-changes/ You comments and suggestions would be appreciated, here or over there! --dave [* The internet society, the parent body for IETF, the Internet Engineering Task Force] -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 14:20:00 2014 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 10:20:00 -0400 Subject: Thanks for the feedback on Yahoo in Canada right now... In-Reply-To: <534FDEA6.5000706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <534FE310.1050600@rogers.com> David Collier-Brown wrote: > At the invitation of ISOC* Canada, I've posted a review at > http://www.internetsociety.ca/have-you-been-affected-by-yahoo-mails-changes/ > > You comments and suggestions would be appreciated, here or over there! My ISP uses Yahoo to provide mail service and I'm still receiving my lists. However, my email is sent to my ISPs domain name and not Yahoo. "Yahoo in the US has cut their email-using customers off from using mailing-lists." Bunch of Yahoos! ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 15:53:26 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 11:53:26 -0400 Subject: Thanks for the feedback on Yahoo in Canada right now... In-Reply-To: <534FE310.1050600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FE310.1050600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <534FF8F6.3030609@rogers.com> On 04/17/2014 10:20 AM, James Knott wrote: > David Collier-Brown wrote: >> At the invitation of ISOC* Canada, I've posted a review at >> http://www.internetsociety.ca/have-you-been-affected-by-yahoo-mails-changes/ >> >> You comments and suggestions would be appreciated, here or over there! > My ISP uses Yahoo to provide mail service and I'm still receiving my > lists. However, my email is sent to my ISPs domain name and not Yahoo. > > "Yahoo in the US has cut their email-using customers off from using > mailing-lists." > > Bunch of Yahoos! ;-) > > -- Me too: Rogers still uses Yahoo as their email service provider ("ESP"), but have greatly cut down any mention of the former "Rogers Yahoo" partnership. As yet they haven't cut me off, although Colin mentioned someone who had been. --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 15:56:16 2014 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 11:56:16 -0400 Subject: Thanks for the feedback on Yahoo in Canada right now... In-Reply-To: <534FDEA6.5000706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> On 04/17/2014 10:01 AM, David Collier-Brown wrote: > ... The next step is to figure out what to do about it. How about ditching Yahoo? Both Yahoo and Hotmail/MSN/Live and any ISP that uses them in the background are huge pains for e-commerce systems that rely on sending confirmation links to users. More often than not, those emails will either get misclassified as junk or never get delivered at all. Recently, I was speaking with someone who hadn't received an email I'd sent to his Sympatico (Microsoft backed). He asked me to send it again and he didn't receive it. He said he has a Gmail address so I sent the same email to both his Sympatico and his Gmail account. He got it immediately at his Gmail account. It never reached his Sympatico account. It's nowhere to be found and it's not in his junk or inbox folders. He realized then that he's probably been missing important emails from people for years and he switched to Gmail. I'm not advocating for Gmail, though it's a perfectly capable mail system. I'm just saying that in the universe of possibilities, Yahoo and Microsoft's various free email offerings are the worst possible choices. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay 647-778-8696 Dinamis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 16:20:30 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:20:30 -0400 Subject: Thanks for the feedback on Yahoo in Canada right now... In-Reply-To: <534FF9A0.9060305-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 11:56 AM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 04/17/2014 10:01 AM, David Collier-Brown wrote: > > ... The next step is to figure out what to do about it. > > How about ditching Yahoo? Both Yahoo and Hotmail/MSN/Live and any ISP > that uses them in the background are huge pains for e-commerce systems > that rely on sending confirmation links to users. More often than not, > those emails will either get misclassified as junk or never get > delivered at all. Recently, I was speaking with someone who hadn't > received an email I'd sent to his Sympatico (Microsoft backed). He asked > me to send it again and he didn't receive it. He said he has a Gmail > address so I sent the same email to both his Sympatico and his Gmail > account. He got it immediately at his Gmail account. It never reached > his Sympatico account. It's nowhere to be found and it's not in his junk > or inbox folders. He realized then that he's probably been missing > important emails from people for years and he switched to Gmail. I'm not > advocating for Gmail, though it's a perfectly capable mail system. I'm > just saying that in the universe of possibilities, Yahoo and Microsoft's > various free email offerings are the worst possible choices. Agreed. One way to regard this is to consider the change to be "censorship", and, to some degree, a matter of "human rights" warranting protest. I don't think that is well-representative of what's up at Yahoo!, since censorship is usually expected to involve the suppression of speech by a governmental organization. Yahoo! is a company operating in a foreign country, not a governing organization. Another view (less than "censorship") might be to consider this to be a form of "editorial selection", though I think that overstates the amount of intentionality involved. I'll quote from Jan Wieck on this from another list which has been discussing this from a more purely practical perspective. "One aspect of the whole thing is that the DMARC proposal is two years old and it was well known that this (breaking mailing lists) would be a side effect of it. The powers that be at Yahoo! went ahead with it anyways. This can mean only one thing. That Yahoo! does not want users with a @yahoo.com address to participate in third party mailing lists. If that is what they want, then that is what they should get." A consequence of this is that Yahoo! will lose some paying users. (Jan was, until quite recently, one such.) For those that have been paying users, this is providing a compelling reason to shift to some more satisfactory service provider. For those that haven't been paying, well, your service exists at the sufferance of a company whose finances I can't properly comprehend. Doesn't seem like something worth depending on to me. (In contrast, I understand how Google can get value from its free service offerings.) FYI, there is a relevant GTALUG practicality; we probably need to block subscribers "@yahoo.com" from posting to this list, as the DMARC configuration will mean that mail from those subscribers is liable to cause us problems by virtue of bouncing around with the risk of encouraging mail routers to block US, which is distinctly undesirable. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 16:32:29 2014 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:32:29 -0400 Subject: Thanks for the feedback on Yahoo in Canada right now... In-Reply-To: <534FF9A0.9060305-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <5350021D.9050208@ve3syb.ca> On 14-04-17 11:56 AM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > It never reached his Sympatico account. It's nowhere to be found and it's > not in his junk or inbox folders. He realized then that he's probably > been missing important emails from people for years and he switched to > Gmail. I have a Yahoo email address I use as a throwaway address when I need access to a site that I don't care much about. I don't know if any important mail might get lost if I was to send it to Yahoo but my mail box there sure fills up with tons of spam. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 16:34:21 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:34:21 -0400 Subject: Thanks for the feedback on Yahoo in Canada right now... In-Reply-To: References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <5350028D.8020809@rogers.com> On 04/17/2014 12:20 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 11:56 AM, CLIFFORD ILKAY > > wrote: > > On 04/17/2014 10:01 AM, David Collier-Brown wrote: > > ... The next step is to figure out what to do about it. > > How about ditching Yahoo? Both Yahoo and Hotmail/MSN/Live and any ISP > that uses them in the background are huge pains for e-commerce systems > that rely on sending confirmation links to users. More often than not, > those emails will either get misclassified as junk or never get > delivered at all. Recently, I was speaking with someone who hadn't > received an email I'd sent to his Sympatico (Microsoft backed). He > asked > me to send it again and he didn't receive it. He said he has a Gmail > address so I sent the same email to both his Sympatico and his Gmail > account. He got it immediately at his Gmail account. It never reached > his Sympatico account. It's nowhere to be found and it's not in > his junk > or inbox folders. He realized then that he's probably been missing > important emails from people for years and he switched to Gmail. > I'm not > advocating for Gmail, though it's a perfectly capable mail system. I'm > just saying that in the universe of possibilities, Yahoo and > Microsoft's > various free email offerings are the worst possible choices. > > > Agreed. > > One way to regard this is to consider the change to be "censorship", > and, to some degree, a matter of "human rights" warranting protest. I > don't think that is well-representative of what's up at Yahoo!, since > censorship is usually expected to involve the suppression of speech by > a governmental organization. Yahoo! is a company operating in a > foreign country, not a governing organization. > > Another view (less than "censorship") might be to consider this to be > a form of "editorial selection", though I think that overstates the > amount of intentionality involved. > > I'll quote from Jan Wieck on this from another list which has been > discussing this from a more purely practical perspective. > > "One aspect of the whole thing is that the DMARC proposal is two years > old and it was well known that this (breaking mailing lists) would be a > side effect of it. The powers that be at Yahoo! went ahead with it > anyways. This can mean only one thing. That Yahoo! does not want users > with a @yahoo.com address to participate in third > party mailing lists. > If that is what they want, then that is what they should get." > > A consequence of this is that Yahoo! will lose some paying users. > (Jan was, until quite recently, one such.) > > For those that have been paying users, this is providing a compelling > reason to shift to some more satisfactory service provider. For those > that haven't been paying, well, your service exists at the sufferance > of a company whose finances I can't properly comprehend. Doesn't seem > like something worth depending on to me. (In contrast, I understand > how Google can get value from its free service offerings.) > > FYI, there is a relevant GTALUG practicality; we probably need to > block subscribers "@yahoo.com " from posting to this > list, as the DMARC configuration will mean that mail from those > subscribers is liable to cause us problems by virtue of bouncing > around with the risk of encouraging mail routers to block US, which is > distinctly undesirable. > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" Rogers subcontracts with Yahoo, which means a subset of my mail ends up going there, and occasionally disappearing utterly. Oddly, spamcop doesn't have an outgoing-mail service (I use their incoming), or I'd personally have been far away for years. Just FYI, I got another failure at Thu Apr 17 12:06:15 EDT 2014 wit the message An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded: Transaction failed : Cannot send message due to possible abuse; please visit http://postmaster.yahoo.com/abuse_smtp.html for more information. Please check the message and try again. There is no such address, of course, and since I use TLS, I can't snoop and see what happened. strace next. I do know even a reasonable mailer (Thunderbird) failed pretty silently, filing the message in "sent" but not sending. Who knows what a bad mailer would do? --dave [GCOS Internet mail would mail you the SMTP session log on any failure. Why? Because I wrote it to follow Postel's instructions!] -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 16:51:29 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:51:29 -0400 Subject: Email and the right to free speech (was: Thanks for the feedback on Yahoo in Canada right now...) In-Reply-To: References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <53500691.205@rogers.com> On 04/17/2014 12:20 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 11:56 AM, CLIFFORD ILKAY > > wrote: > > On 04/17/2014 10:01 AM, David Collier-Brown wrote: > > ... The next step is to figure out what to do about it. > > How about ditching Yahoo? Both Yahoo and Hotmail/MSN/Live and any ISP > that uses them in the background are huge pains for e-commerce systems > that rely on sending confirmation links to users. More often than not, > those emails will either get misclassified as junk or never get > delivered at all. Recently, I was speaking with someone who hadn't > received an email I'd sent to his Sympatico (Microsoft backed). He > asked > me to send it again and he didn't receive it. He said he has a Gmail > address so I sent the same email to both his Sympatico and his Gmail > account. He got it immediately at his Gmail account. It never reached > his Sympatico account. It's nowhere to be found and it's not in > his junk > or inbox folders. He realized then that he's probably been missing > important emails from people for years and he switched to Gmail. > I'm not > advocating for Gmail, though it's a perfectly capable mail system. I'm > just saying that in the universe of possibilities, Yahoo and > Microsoft's > various free email offerings are the worst possible choices. > > > Agreed. > > One way to regard this is to consider the change to be "censorship", > and, to some degree, a matter of "human rights" warranting protest. I > don't think that is well-representative of what's up at Yahoo!, since > censorship is usually expected to involve the suppression of speech by > a governmental organization. Yahoo! is a company operating in a > foreign country, not a governing organization. > > Another view (less than "censorship") might be to consider this to be > a form of "editorial selection", though I think that overstates the > amount of intentionality involved. > > I'll quote from Jan Wieck on this from another list which has been > discussing this from a more purely practical perspective. > > "One aspect of the whole thing is that the DMARC proposal is two years > old and it was well known that this (breaking mailing lists) would be a > side effect of it. The powers that be at Yahoo! went ahead with it > anyways. This can mean only one thing. That Yahoo! does not want users > with a @yahoo.com address to participate in third > party mailing lists. > If that is what they want, then that is what they should get." > > A consequence of this is that Yahoo! will lose some paying users. > (Jan was, until quite recently, one such.) > > For those that have been paying users, this is providing a compelling > reason to shift to some more satisfactory service provider. For those > that haven't been paying, well, your service exists at the sufferance > of a company whose finances I can't properly comprehend. Doesn't seem > like something worth depending on to me. (In contrast, I understand > how Google can get value from its free service offerings.) > > FYI, there is a relevant GTALUG practicality; we probably need to > block subscribers "@yahoo.com " from posting to this > list, as the DMARC configuration will mean that mail from those > subscribers is liable to cause us problems by virtue of bouncing > around with the risk of encouraging mail routers to block US, which is > distinctly undesirable. > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" I'd certainly consider it censorship, however much some people insist that a company is incapable of censorship. In part this is because DMARC is a */filtering/* system, intended to reduce some but not all of the problems of other mechanisms that seek to filter out spam messages, phishing and the like. Such programs require great care in design and use, as they can be very harmful to non-spammers, as has happened here. And, of course, they're what a government uses when they wish to implement censorship. In addition, it is a denial of one's existing rights, including the right to speech, whatever specific name one puts on it. Imagine the reaction if a subcontractor to Canada Post were to introduce a mail-sorter that filtered out and shredded messages that contains an ambiguous indications of a possible scam, based on irregularities in the from-address on the envelope (;-)) --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 17:25:30 2014 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:25:30 -0400 Subject: Email and the right to free speech In-Reply-To: <53500691.205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> <53500691.205@rogers.com> Message-ID: <53500E8A.9080406@dinamis.com> On 04/17/2014 12:51 PM, David Collier-Brown wrote: > I'd certainly consider it censorship, however much some people insist > that a company is incapable of censorship. We don't have competition in governments, at least not until there is an election, but we have no shortage of competition in email hosting providers. Yahoo is certainly not the only game in town so you have the option of voting with your feet. If enough people do that, and I hope they do, Yahoo is rendered even more irrelevant than they already are. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay 647-778-8696 Dinamis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 18:40:53 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 14:40:53 -0400 Subject: Email and the right to free speech In-Reply-To: <53500E8A.9080406-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> <53500691.205@rogers.com> <53500E8A.9080406@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <53502035.8090709@rogers.com> [long answer, sorry...] I can vote with my feet, being an individual, and did. My main address is at spamcop. Regrettably, we have a severe lack of wires-on-poles providers, and mine, Rogers, is foolish enough to have partnered with Yahoo. My other choice is Bell, who is indistinguishably better or worse. I sure can't tell which (;-)) The concern in my mind is that companies of a sufficient size consider themselves to be in a thieves market: so long as they're not painfully worse that the other crooks, the suckers get fleeced. If the suckers go somewhere else, they still get fleeced. If they go somebody small (spamcop, tek savvy), it doesn't matter. If the someone small gets big, the either get squeezed out, or they play by the rules of the market and become thieves themselves. This was the situation, BTW, before the beginning of (international) commercial law in the middle ages (1600 or so) for merchants in the Hanseatic League. They had no standing in the courts, which only did criminal law, and so had to create they own set of norms, get broad agreement among themselves and then make deal with the local princes to have them play from the same rulebook. Amusingly, their other problem was pirates, the kind with sailing ships. Yahoo doing harm to its customers in the 'net world, where there is only a weak set of rules, and no bill of rights from the "princes" to give us standing in their courts. Fortunately there is as broad an agreement as to what is normal and fair as there was in "German village law", and Yahoo is well outside the norms. That I can use "censorship" "free speech" and have people understand me (and not reply with "WTF"). My suspicion, and hope, is that Yahoo can learn to behave on the net as if they were in a free market. They're already working with the Berkman centre at Harvard *on that very subject*. I suspect one hand doesn't know what the other is doing, which is common in large companies. --dave [I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one - Mark Twain] [I'm waiting for a compile] On 04/17/2014 01:25 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 04/17/2014 12:51 PM, David Collier-Brown wrote: >> I'd certainly consider it censorship, however much some people insist >> that a company is incapable of censorship. > > > We don't have competition in governments, at least not until there is > an election, but we have no shortage of competition in email hosting > providers. Yahoo is certainly not the only game in town so you have > the option of voting with your feet. If enough people do that, and I > hope they do, Yahoo is rendered even more irrelevant than they already > are. > -- > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay > > 647-778-8696 > > Dinamis > > -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 19:24:37 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:24:37 -0400 Subject: Email and the right to free speech In-Reply-To: <53502035.8090709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> <53500691.205@rogers.com> <53500E8A.9080406@dinamis.com> <53502035.8090709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20140417192437.GA17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 02:40:53PM -0400, David Collier-Brown wrote: > [long answer, sorry...] > > I can vote with my feet, being an individual, and did. My main address > is at spamcop. > > Regrettably, we have a severe lack of wires-on-poles providers, and > mine, Rogers, is foolish enough to have partnered with Yahoo. My other > choice is Bell, who is indistinguishably better or worse. I sure can't > tell which (;-)) You do generally have choices other than Rogers and Bell. Teksavvy is quite a popular one around this group. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-3ZSMZGRXU0K2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 19:46:51 2014 From: me-3ZSMZGRXU0K2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (staticsafe) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:46:51 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr) released In-Reply-To: <20140417170954.GZ28005-dI40efOkAlo@public.gmane.org> References: <20140417170954.GZ28005@0c3.net> Message-ID: <53502FAB.5000504@staticsafe.ca> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr) released Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 11:09:54 -0600 From: Adam Conrad To: ubuntu-announce-nLRlyDuq1AZFpShjVBNYrg at public.gmane.org The Ubuntu team is very pleased to announce our fifth long-term support release, Ubuntu 14.04 LTS for Desktop, Server, Cloud, and Core, as well as Ubuntu 14.04 for Phone and Tablet products. Codenamed "Trusty Tahr", 14.04 LTS continues Ubuntu's proud tradition of integrating the latest and greatest open source technologies into a high-quality, easy-to-use Linux distribution. The team has been hard at work through this cycle, introducing new features and fixing bugs. Ubuntu 14.04 LTS is the first long-term support release with support for the new "arm64" architecture for 64-bit ARM systems, as well as the "ppc64el" architecture for little-endian 64-bit POWER systems. This release also includes several subtle but welcome improvements to Unity, AppArmor, and a host of other great software. Ubuntu Server 14.04 LTS includes the Icehouse release of OpenStack, alongside deployment and management tools that save devops teams time when deploying distributed applications - whether on private clouds, public clouds, x86 or ARM servers, or on developer laptops. Several key server technologies, from MAAS to Ceph, have been updated to new upstream versions with a variety of new features. The newest Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, Ubuntu Kylin, and Ubuntu Studio are also being released today. More details can be found for these at their individual release notes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes#Official_flavours Maintenance updates will be provided for 5 years for Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, Ubuntu Cloud, Ubuntu Core, Ubuntu Kylin, Edubuntu, and Kubuntu. All the remaining flavours will be supported for 3 years. To get Ubuntu 14.04 LTS ----------------------- In order to download Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, visit: http://www.ubuntu.com/download Users of Ubuntu 12.10 and 13.10 will be offered an automatic upgrade to 14.04 LTS via Update Manager shortly. Users of 12.04 LTS will be offered the automatic upgrade when 14.04.1 LTS is released, which is scheduled for July 24th. For further information about upgrading, see: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/upgrade As always, upgrades to the latest version of Ubuntu are entirely free of charge. We recommend that all users read the release notes, which document caveats, workarounds for known issues, as well as more in-depth notes on the release itself. They are available at: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes Find out what's new in this release with a graphical overview: http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/features If you have a question, or if you think you may have found a bug but aren't sure, you can try asking in any of the following places: #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users http://www.ubuntuforums.org http://askubuntu.com Help Shape Ubuntu ----------------- If you would like to help shape Ubuntu, take a look at the list of ways you can participate at: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/get-involved About Ubuntu ------------ Ubuntu is a full-featured Linux distribution for desktops, laptops, netbooks and servers, with a fast and easy installation and regular releases. A tightly-integrated selection of excellent applications is included, and an incredible variety of add-on software is just a few clicks away. Professional services including support are available from Canonical and hundreds of other companies around the world. For more information about support, visit: http://www.ubuntu.com/support More Information ---------------- You can learn more about Ubuntu and about this release on our website listed below: http://www.ubuntu.com To sign up for future Ubuntu announcements, please subscribe to Ubuntu's very low volume announcement list at: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-announce On behalf of the Ubuntu Release Team, Adam Conrad -- ubuntu-announce mailing list ubuntu-announce-nLRlyDuq1AZFpShjVBNYrg at public.gmane.org Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-announce -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 19:47:42 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:47:42 -0400 Subject: Email and the right to free speech In-Reply-To: <20140417192437.GA17767-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> <53500691.205@rogers.com> <53500E8A.9080406@dinamis.com> <53502035.8090709@rogers.com> <20140417192437.GA17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <53502FDE.6020009@rogers.com> On 04/17/2014 03:24 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 02:40:53PM -0400, David Collier-Brown wrote: >> [long answer, sorry...] >> >> I can vote with my feet, being an individual, and did. My main address >> is at spamcop. >> >> Regrettably, we have a severe lack of wires-on-poles providers, and >> mine, Rogers, is foolish enough to have partnered with Yahoo. My other >> choice is Bell, who is indistinguishably better or worse. I sure can't >> tell which (;-)) > You do generally have choices other than Rogers and Bell. Teksavvy is > quite a popular one around this group. > Yes, and they're from Chatham, my home town! However, they aren't the owners of wires on poles, and that oligopoly can make it exceedingly hard for anyone who isn't one of the club-of-two. Tek almost got killed when the "duopoly" decide to introduce usage caps. If it weren't for the CRTC, they'd be toast. For a free market, TekSavvy is necessary. Regrettably, they're not sufficient. --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 20:00:44 2014 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 16:00:44 -0400 Subject: Email and the right to free speech In-Reply-To: <53502FDE.6020009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> <53500691.205@rogers.com> <53500E8A.9080406@dinamis.com> <53502035.8090709@rogers.com> <20140417192437.GA17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <53502FDE.6020009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <535032EC.9090706@dinamis.com> On 04/17/2014 03:47 PM, David Collier-Brown wrote: > On 04/17/2014 03:24 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 02:40:53PM -0400, David Collier-Brown wrote: >>> [long answer, sorry...] >>> >>> I can vote with my feet, being an individual, and did. My main address >>> is at spamcop. >>> >>> Regrettably, we have a severe lack of wires-on-poles providers, and >>> mine, Rogers, is foolish enough to have partnered with Yahoo. My other >>> choice is Bell, who is indistinguishably better or worse. I sure can't >>> tell which (;-)) >> You do generally have choices other than Rogers and Bell. Teksavvy is >> quite a popular one around this group. >> > Yes, and they're from Chatham, my home town! > > However, they aren't the owners of wires on poles, and that oligopoly > can make it exceedingly hard for anyone who isn't one of the > club-of-two. Tek almost got killed when the "duopoly" decide to > introduce usage caps. If it weren't for the CRTC, they'd be toast. > > For a free market, TekSavvy is necessary. Regrettably, they're not > sufficient. Dave, what does any of that have to do with who provides email services for you? I'm sure you know that you always have the option of using an email provider that is independent of your ISP whether it's a no-cost service, like Gmail, or a paid service that hosts you-FBj3rGVNSafJGjvyiQTEsA at public.gmane.org Email and other services are easy to decouple from who provides Internet access for you. I've always treated my ISP as a provider of access and nothing else which is why to change from Rogers to TekSavvy didn't have any impact on anything other than my wallet as I got mostly better service for less money. I didn't have to change my email addresses with all the hassle that would have entailed. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay 647-778-8696 Dinamis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 20:09:37 2014 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 16:09:37 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr) released In-Reply-To: <53502FAB.5000504-3ZSMZGRXU0K2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <20140417170954.GZ28005@0c3.net> <53502FAB.5000504@staticsafe.ca> Message-ID: I looking forward to testing out the Ubuntu Touch[1] (the phone and tablet version) on my Nexus 7. They seem to only have support for the Google Nexus line right now. [1]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 3:46 PM, staticsafe wrote: > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr) released > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 11:09:54 -0600 > From: Adam Conrad > To: ubuntu-announce-nLRlyDuq1AZFpShjVBNYrg at public.gmane.org > > The Ubuntu team is very pleased to announce our fifth long-term support > release, Ubuntu 14.04 LTS for Desktop, Server, Cloud, and Core, as well > as Ubuntu 14.04 for Phone and Tablet products. > > Codenamed "Trusty Tahr", 14.04 LTS continues Ubuntu's proud tradition > of integrating the latest and greatest open source technologies into a > high-quality, easy-to-use Linux distribution. The team has been hard at > work through this cycle, introducing new features and fixing bugs. > > Ubuntu 14.04 LTS is the first long-term support release with support > for the new "arm64" architecture for 64-bit ARM systems, as well as the > "ppc64el" architecture for little-endian 64-bit POWER systems. This > release also includes several subtle but welcome improvements to Unity, > AppArmor, and a host of other great software. > > Ubuntu Server 14.04 LTS includes the Icehouse release of OpenStack, > alongside deployment and management tools that save devops teams time > when deploying distributed applications - whether on private clouds, > public clouds, x86 or ARM servers, or on developer laptops. Several key > server technologies, from MAAS to Ceph, have been updated to new upstream > versions with a variety of new features. > > The newest Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, Ubuntu > Kylin, and Ubuntu Studio are also being released today. More details > can be found for these at their individual release notes: > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes#Official_flavours > > Maintenance updates will be provided for 5 years for Ubuntu Desktop, > Ubuntu Server, Ubuntu Cloud, Ubuntu Core, Ubuntu Kylin, Edubuntu, and > Kubuntu. All the remaining flavours will be supported for 3 years. > > To get Ubuntu 14.04 LTS > ----------------------- > > In order to download Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, visit: > > http://www.ubuntu.com/download > > Users of Ubuntu 12.10 and 13.10 will be offered an automatic upgrade to > 14.04 LTS via Update Manager shortly. Users of 12.04 LTS will be > offered the automatic upgrade when 14.04.1 LTS is released, which is > scheduled for July 24th. For further information about upgrading, see: > > http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/upgrade > > As always, upgrades to the latest version of Ubuntu are entirely free > of charge. > > We recommend that all users read the release notes, which document > caveats, workarounds for known issues, as well as more in-depth notes > on the release itself. They are available at: > > http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes > > Find out what's new in this release with a graphical overview: > > http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop > http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/features > > If you have a question, or if you think you may have found a bug > but aren't sure, you can try asking in any of the following places: > > #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net > http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users > http://www.ubuntuforums.org > http://askubuntu.com > > > Help Shape Ubuntu > ----------------- > > If you would like to help shape Ubuntu, take a look at the list > of ways you can participate at: > > http://www.ubuntu.com/community/get-involved > > > About Ubuntu > ------------ > > Ubuntu is a full-featured Linux distribution for desktops, laptops, > netbooks and servers, with a fast and easy installation and regular > releases. A tightly-integrated selection of excellent applications > is included, and an incredible variety of add-on software is just a > few clicks away. > > Professional services including support are available from Canonical > and hundreds of other companies around the world. For more information > about support, visit: > > http://www.ubuntu.com/support > > > More Information > ---------------- > > You can learn more about Ubuntu and about this release on our > website listed below: > > http://www.ubuntu.com > > To sign up for future Ubuntu announcements, please subscribe to > Ubuntu's very low volume announcement list at: > > http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-announce > > > On behalf of the Ubuntu Release Team, > Adam Conrad > > -- > ubuntu-announce mailing list > ubuntu-announce-nLRlyDuq1AZFpShjVBNYrg at public.gmane.org > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-announce > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Myles Braithwaite | http://mylesb.ca/e -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 20:18:22 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 16:18:22 -0400 Subject: Email and the right to free speech In-Reply-To: <53502FDE.6020009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> <53500691.205@rogers.com> <53500E8A.9080406@dinamis.com> <53502035.8090709@rogers.com> <20140417192437.GA17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <53502FDE.6020009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20140417201822.GB17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 03:47:42PM -0400, David Collier-Brown wrote: > Yes, and they're from Chatham, my home town! > > However, they aren't the owners of wires on poles, and that oligopoly > can make it exceedingly hard for anyone who isn't one of the > club-of-two. Tek almost got killed when the "duopoly" decide to > introduce usage caps. If it weren't for the CRTC, they'd be toast. > > For a free market, TekSavvy is necessary. Regrettably, they're not > sufficient. At least they don't appear to rely on yahoo for mail. And they do seem to quite actively try to prevent Bell and Rogers from just doing what they want. It is rather sad that they have to do that of course. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 20:19:08 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 16:19:08 -0400 Subject: Email and the right to free speech In-Reply-To: <535032EC.9090706-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> <53500691.205@rogers.com> <53500E8A.9080406@dinamis.com> <53502035.8090709@rogers.com> <20140417192437.GA17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <53502FDE.6020009@rogers.com> <535032EC.9090706@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20140417201908.GC17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 04:00:44PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Dave, what does any of that have to do with who provides email services > for you? I'm sure you know that you always have the option of using an > email provider that is independent of your ISP whether it's a no-cost > service, like Gmail, or a paid service that hosts you-FBj3rGVNSafJGjvyiQTEsA at public.gmane.org > Email and other services are easy to decouple from who provides Internet > access for you. I've always treated my ISP as a provider of access and > nothing else which is why to change from Rogers to TekSavvy didn't have > any impact on anything other than my wallet as I got mostly better > service for less money. I didn't have to change my email addresses with > all the hassle that would have entailed. I too stopped using ISP email years ago. Too much hassle. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 20:20:11 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 16:20:11 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr) released In-Reply-To: <53502FAB.5000504-3ZSMZGRXU0K2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <20140417170954.GZ28005@0c3.net> <53502FAB.5000504@staticsafe.ca> Message-ID: <20140417202011.GD17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 03:46:51PM -0400, staticsafe wrote: > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr) released > Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 11:09:54 -0600 > From: Adam Conrad > To: ubuntu-announce-nLRlyDuq1AZFpShjVBNYrg at public.gmane.org > > The Ubuntu team is very pleased to announce our fifth long-term support > release, Ubuntu 14.04 LTS for Desktop, Server, Cloud, and Core, as well > as Ubuntu 14.04 for Phone and Tablet products. > > Codenamed "Trusty Tahr", 14.04 LTS continues Ubuntu's proud tradition > of integrating the latest and greatest open source technologies into a > high-quality, easy-to-use Linux distribution. The team has been hard at > work through this cycle, introducing new features and fixing bugs. > > Ubuntu 14.04 LTS is the first long-term support release with support > for the new "arm64" architecture for 64-bit ARM systems, as well as the > "ppc64el" architecture for little-endian 64-bit POWER systems. This > release also includes several subtle but welcome improvements to Unity, > AppArmor, and a host of other great software. Any idea which arm64 systems it currently runs on? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 20:49:25 2014 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 16:49:25 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr) released In-Reply-To: <20140417202011.GD17767-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20140417170954.GZ28005@0c3.net> <53502FAB.5000504@staticsafe.ca> <20140417202011.GD17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <9dc61f3cbb2313f744f7f43859c3db83.squirrel@acheron.ss.org> > On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 03:46:51PM -0400, staticsafe wrote: >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr) released >> Ubuntu 14.04 LTS is the first long-term support release with support >> for the new "arm64" architecture for 64-bit ARM systems, as well as the >> "ppc64el" architecture for little-endian 64-bit POWER systems. This >> release also includes several subtle but welcome improvements to Unity, >> AppArmor, and a host of other great software. > > Any idea which arm64 systems it currently runs on? Their likely referring to the ARMv8 Foundation Model which is a virtualized mv8 (aka arm64, AArch64 *) CPU. This to help boot strap software validation ahead of silicon availability. http://www.arm.com/products/processors/instruction-set-architectures/armv8-architecture.php Qualcomm has their ARMv8 silicon announced. But we're still largely looking at another year for consumer devices. http://www.qualcomm.com/snapdragon/processors/810 (*): The distro's are divergent on Architecture naming again *sigh* -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 21:26:51 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 17:26:51 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu 14.04 LTS (Trusty Tahr) released In-Reply-To: <9dc61f3cbb2313f744f7f43859c3db83.squirrel-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20140417170954.GZ28005@0c3.net> <53502FAB.5000504@staticsafe.ca> <20140417202011.GD17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <9dc61f3cbb2313f744f7f43859c3db83.squirrel@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: <20140417212651.GE17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 04:49:25PM -0400, scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Their likely referring to the ARMv8 Foundation Model which is a > virtualized mv8 (aka arm64, AArch64 *) CPU. This to help boot strap > software validation ahead of silicon availability. > > http://www.arm.com/products/processors/instruction-set-architectures/armv8-architecture.php > > Qualcomm has their ARMv8 silicon announced. But we're still largely > looking at another year for consumer devices. > > http://www.qualcomm.com/snapdragon/processors/810 > > > (*): The distro's are divergent on Architecture naming again *sigh* Well Ubuntu/Debian/etc do not allow capitals in their architecture names, so AArch64 would be aarch64, but I think most people find arm64 a lot more obvious. Similarly underscore is a package name field seperator, so x86_64 was not acceptable to use, so they went with amd64, which also happened to pay tribute to the inventor of the architecture. The x32 architecture is at least a fairly nice name, given how many peopel refer to x86_64 as x64. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 17 23:31:18 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 19:31:18 -0400 Subject: Email and the right to free speech In-Reply-To: <535032EC.9090706-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> <53500691.205@rogers.com> <53500E8A.9080406@dinamis.com> <53502035.8090709@rogers.com> <20140417192437.GA17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <53502FDE.6020009@rogers.com> <535032EC.9090706@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <53506446.7010607@rogers.com> On 04/17/2014 04:00 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 04/17/2014 03:47 PM, David Collier-Brown wrote: >> On 04/17/2014 03:24 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 02:40:53PM -0400, David Collier-Brown wrote: >>>> [long answer, sorry...] >>>> >>>> I can vote with my feet, being an individual, and did. My main address >>>> is at spamcop. >>>> >>>> Regrettably, we have a severe lack of wires-on-poles providers, and >>>> mine, Rogers, is foolish enough to have partnered with Yahoo. My other >>>> choice is Bell, who is indistinguishably better or worse. I sure can't >>>> tell which (;-)) >>> You do generally have choices other than Rogers and Bell. Teksavvy is >>> quite a popular one around this group. >>> >> Yes, and they're from Chatham, my home town! >> >> However, they aren't the owners of wires on poles, and that oligopoly >> can make it exceedingly hard for anyone who isn't one of the >> club-of-two. Tek almost got killed when the "duopoly" decide to >> introduce usage caps. If it weren't for the CRTC, they'd be toast. >> >> For a free market, TekSavvy is necessary. Regrettably, they're not >> sufficient. > Dave, what does any of that have to do with who provides email services > for you? I'm sure you know that you always have the option of using an > email provider that is independent of your ISP whether it's a no-cost > service, like Gmail, or a paid service that hosts you-FBj3rGVNSafJGjvyiQTEsA at public.gmane.org > Email and other services are easy to decouple from who provides Internet > access for you. I've always treated my ISP as a provider of access and > nothing else which is why to change from Rogers to TekSavvy didn't have > any impact on anything other than my wallet as I got mostly better > service for less money. I didn't have to change my email addresses with > all the hassle that would have entailed. > I've always used a non-Rogers email, spamcop, from the day I first got cable. (My outbound feed uses a Rogers server only because of their firewall rules). I'm not the only person in the world, though, and all sorts of other people are at risk. --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 18 06:52:36 2014 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 02:52:36 -0400 Subject: Disposable e-mail address service: mailinator.com In-Reply-To: <5350021D.9050208-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <534FDEA6.5000706@rogers.com> <534FF9A0.9060305@dinamis.com> <5350021D.9050208@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <5350CBB4.2020904@sobac.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 14-04-17 12:32 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > I have a Yahoo email address I use as a throwaway address when I > need access to a site that I don't care much about. Check out http://mailinator.com for on-the-fly disposable e-mail addresses. I find that some sites refuse to allow @mailinator.com addresses, but there are a few aliases (like @spamgoes.in), and TIL you can point the MX for your own domain to mail.mailinator.com and get a personalized spam bucket! http://mailinator.blogspot.ca/2008/01/your-own-private-mailinator.html - --Bob. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability iEYEARECAAYFAlNQy7IACgkQuRKJsNLM5eqQiQCfdyKpOvNHcHH+NYT/1a277T1c tuMAnjNxXnOHQOy5O+JbAiFWo3cFFCc7 =5kl+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 18 15:19:05 2014 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 11:19:05 -0400 Subject: emails from katherine wynne Message-ID: Did anyone else get spammed this morning from the liberal gov't ? Dave Cramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 18 16:14:43 2014 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 12:14:43 -0400 Subject: emails from katherine wynne In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53514F73.1080901@gmail.com> On 14-04-18 11:19 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > Did anyone else get spammed this morning from the liberal gov't ? If it's the same e-mail I got, there's an unsubscribe link to metrics.mmailhost.com (a MailChimp site) buried in the headers. Which may take you to a page with - rather alarmingly - your name, postal address, phone number and e-mail. Unsubscribing from a political list is somewhat futile, as they have assumed permission from us all anyway. Since government makes the laws about DNC lists, they don't think they're doing anything wrong by making themselves exempt from them ? For more details, please see my years-long fight with the Ontario NDP to get off their mailing lists. I eventually had to pretend to move to PEI to get rid of them. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 18 17:32:10 2014 From: davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (David Collier-Brown) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:32:10 -0400 Subject: emails from katherine wynne In-Reply-To: <53514F73.1080901-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <53514F73.1080901@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5351619A.6020504@rogers.com> Could you send me a copy? I did a gig for Martha Hall Findlay and have some techie contacts with the admins, to get the "personal information" leak swatted. Unfortunately, the Ontario Liberals don't spam me (;-)) --dave On 04/18/2014 12:14 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 14-04-18 11:19 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: >> Did anyone else get spammed this morning from the liberal gov't ? > If it's the same e-mail I got, there's an unsubscribe link to > metrics.mmailhost.com (a MailChimp site) buried in the headers. Which > may take you to a page with - rather alarmingly - your name, postal > address, phone number and e-mail. > > Unsubscribing from a political list is somewhat futile, as they have > assumed permission from us all anyway. Since government makes the laws > about DNC lists, they don't think they're doing anything wrong by making > themselves exempt from them ? > > For more details, please see my years-long fight with the Ontario NDP to > get off their mailing lists. I eventually had to pretend to move to PEI > to get rid of them. > > Stewart > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 18 18:18:50 2014 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 14:18:50 -0400 Subject: emails from katherine wynne In-Reply-To: <5351619A.6020504-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <53514F73.1080901@gmail.com> <5351619A.6020504@rogers.com> Message-ID: <53516C8A.1000906@alteeve.ca> I'm a card-carrying liberal member and I didn't get anything from them recently. On 18/04/14 01:32 PM, David Collier-Brown wrote: > Could you send me a copy? I did a gig for Martha Hall Findlay and have > some techie contacts with the admins, to get the "personal information" > leak swatted. Unfortunately, the Ontario Liberals don't spam me (;-)) > > --dave > > On 04/18/2014 12:14 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: >> On 14-04-18 11:19 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: >>> Did anyone else get spammed this morning from the liberal gov't ? >> If it's the same e-mail I got, there's an unsubscribe link to >> metrics.mmailhost.com (a MailChimp site) buried in the headers. Which >> may take you to a page with - rather alarmingly - your name, postal >> address, phone number and e-mail. >> >> Unsubscribing from a political list is somewhat futile, as they have >> assumed permission from us all anyway. Since government makes the laws >> about DNC lists, they don't think they're doing anything wrong by making >> themselves exempt from them ? >> >> For more details, please see my years-long fight with the Ontario NDP to >> get off their mailing lists. I eventually had to pretend to move to PEI >> to get rid of them. >> >> Stewart >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 18 18:21:36 2014 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 14:21:36 -0400 Subject: GNUplot help Message-ID: <20140418182136.GA21371@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Greetings, I'm trying to graph the following data, in my attempt to learn GNUplot. # date notkept 2014-04-01 50 2014-04-02 63 2014-04-03 120 2014-04-04 55 2014-04-05 60 2014-04-06 63 2014-04-07 52 I have this plot script: #!/usr/bin/gnuplot set title "Promise Not Kept" set xlabel "Date" set ylabel "Count" set xdata time set timefmt "%Y-%m-%d" set format x "%Y-%m-%d" set grid plot 'test.dat' pause -1 When I run it I get this error: plot 'test.dat' ^ "./test.sh", line 10: Need full using spec for x time data What have I done wrong? -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wheagy-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 18 18:32:35 2014 From: wheagy-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Bill Heagy) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 14:32:35 -0400 Subject: GNUplot help In-Reply-To: <20140418182136.GA21371-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20140418182136.GA21371@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: For time data, you have to use "using" in the plot line: see "help time/date" On 18/04/14 02:21 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > Greetings, > > I'm trying to graph the following data, in my attempt to learn GNUplot. > > # date notkept > 2014-04-01 50 > 2014-04-02 63 > 2014-04-03 120 > 2014-04-04 55 > 2014-04-05 60 > 2014-04-06 63 > 2014-04-07 52 > > I have this plot script: > #!/usr/bin/gnuplot > > set title "Promise Not Kept" > set xlabel "Date" > set ylabel "Count" > set xdata time > set timefmt "%Y-%m-%d" > set format x "%Y-%m-%d" > set grid > plot 'test.dat' plot 'test.dat' using 1:2 > pause -1 > > When I run it I get this error: > plot 'test.dat' > ^ > "./test.sh", line 10: Need full using spec for x time data > > What have I done wrong? > -- Bill Heagy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 20 01:39:47 2014 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 21:39:47 -0400 Subject: OT: good free or low-cost image+text upload/hosting service Message-ID: <20140420013947.GA2452@waltdnes.org> What are people's experiences with image+text upload services, e.g. pastebin.com etal? I belong to a web forum with limited upload quaota, if uploaded. However, it accepts framed links to images on hosting services. So a 3rd party looks like the way to go. I wonder what their business model is? Is spam involved or selling your data? I'd rather pay for a non-spammy, non-data-selling service. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 20 01:56:03 2014 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 21:56:03 -0400 Subject: OT: good free or low-cost image+text upload/hosting service In-Reply-To: <20140420013947.GA2452-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20140420013947.GA2452@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <53532933.4020106@alteeve.ca> On 19/04/14 09:39 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > What are people's experiences with image+text upload services, e.g. > pastebin.com etal? I belong to a web forum with limited upload quaota, > if uploaded. However, it accepts framed links to images on hosting > services. So a 3rd party looks like the way to go. I wonder what their > business model is? Is spam involved or selling your data? I'd rather > pay for a non-spammy, non-data-selling service. > imgur for images (ie: http://i.imgur.com/iDNBSTw.jpg) fpaste.org -> keep paste for X -> raw (ie: http://fpaste.org/95433/95889313/raw/) Imgur shows ads in the main pages, but allows direct linking to images. They're part of reddit, so they don't seem to difficult about things like embedding. As for fpaste, it's part of the fedora project, so it's hosted thanks to Red Hat. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 20 13:45:40 2014 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 09:45:40 -0400 Subject: OT: good free or low-cost image+text upload/hosting service In-Reply-To: <20140420013947.GA2452-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20140420013947.GA2452@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: For text with perhaps more of a coding bent, Github Gists - https://gist.github.com/ - are handy. They are full (if small) git repositories too, should that be necessary. Stewart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 20 19:42:01 2014 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 15:42:01 -0400 Subject: OT: good free or low-cost image+text upload/hosting service In-Reply-To: <20140420013947.GA2452-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20140420013947.GA2452@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <53542309.1050705@ve3syb.ca> On 14-04-19 09:39 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > What are people's experiences with image+text upload services, e.g. > pastebin.com etal? I belong to a web forum with limited upload quaota, > if uploaded. I haven't used any of these services. Some other options are: Photobucket (http://www.photobucket.com/) ImageShack (http://www.imageshack.com/) Picasa (http://picasa.google.ca/) -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 21 14:51:45 2014 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 10:51:45 -0400 Subject: available: monitor mounts Message-ID: Available to a good home*. For pick up near King Station. One swing arm mount for a single monitor. Similar to http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=4854 Includes an old 17" LCD monitor. One multi-monitor, desk mount, clamp on type. Similar to http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=5559 Note: multi-monitor mount is missing one cross bar and two of the monitor mounting brackets. good for two monitors, and has a few spare parts. :-) Email me off list if you would like to pick up one or the other, or both. * all parts have been tested thoroughly with GNU?Linux and are fully F/LOSS compatible. Do not attempt to run proprietary software on this hardware. It would likely die of shame. :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 21 21:45:44 2014 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 17:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: when you build something foolproof... Message-ID: ... they invent a better fool. (I'm behind the times, I know.) I got a slap-bracelet / USB flash memory as swag a while back. We just tried it for transporting pictures. I plugged it into my computer's USB port, and nothing happened. It turns out that the usb plug had no housing, only a tongue, and so could be plugged in backwards (and not work). One of the few things USB got half right was that you could not plug it in backwards. But we've now had innovation. (I say "half right" because the obviously right approach would be to have it work whichever way it is plugged in. The *next* USB connector is supposed to do that.) (My Lenovo ThinkPads, like most notebooks, have barrel plugs, with complete rotational symmetry. My latest Lenovo (IdeaPad) has a rectangular plug with 180-degree symmetry, like the new USB. This doesn't seem like progress.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 21 21:55:16 2014 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 17:55:16 -0400 Subject: when you build something foolproof... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In principle, rotational symmetry is an enhancement that Apple added when they introduced their "Lightning" cable. (Which is so proprietary that Apple apparently "put a fix in", politically, in China, so that only approved vendors can carry them... < http://club.dx.com/forums/forums.dx/threadid.1344269>) Unfortunately, I hear reports that the Lightning connectors are otherwise rather fragile, so they need to get replaced pretty frequently :-(. I'd be a bit worried that USB could head down the same road. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 21 22:01:16 2014 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 18:01:16 -0400 Subject: when you build something foolproof... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140421220115.GF17767@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 05:45:44PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > ... they invent a better fool. > > (I'm behind the times, I know.) > > I got a slap-bracelet / USB flash memory as swag a while back. > > We just tried it for transporting pictures. I plugged it into my > computer's USB port, and nothing happened. It turns out that the usb plug > had no housing, only a tongue, and so could be plugged in backwards (and > not work). > > One of the few things USB got half right was that you could not plug it in > backwards. But we've now had innovation. > > (I say "half right" because the obviously right approach would be to have > it work whichever way it is plugged in. The *next* USB connector is > supposed to do that.) > > (My Lenovo ThinkPads, like most notebooks, have barrel plugs, with > complete rotational symmetry. My latest Lenovo (IdeaPad) has a > rectangular plug with 180-degree symmetry, like the new USB. This doesn't > seem like progress.) My Thinkpad W530 has the 180 degree symetry on the power connector. It is NOT the same power connector as my wife's Thinkpad T430. hers fits in mine, but the BIOS screen will nicely tell you that you can NOT run the W530 from that power supply and that you can only charge the battery if the machine is off with that power supply, and mine simply does not fit in hers. Hers is 90W, mine is 170W, so they are not the same thing. Same voltage of course. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 27 03:06:39 2014 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 23:06:39 -0400 Subject: Using USB key as real home and possible encryption? Message-ID: <20140427030639.GA3206@waltdnes.org> Let's say I want to go travelling with my laptop, and I don't want to lose confidential stuff if I lose the laptop. 64 and 128 gigabyte USB keys are now available. I intend to... * set up an innocuous /home/waltdnes directory on the laptop * format a 64 or 128 gigabyte USB key as ext2fs * copy the contents of my desktop's /home/waltdnes directory to the key * when I want to use the "desktop $HOME dir", I'll mount the USB key over top of /home/waltdnes, e.g... mount -t ext2 /dev/sdb1 /home/waltdnes So now the worry is not losing the USB key. Is there some form of transparent on-the-fly encryption available that would allow me to read *AND WRTE TO* the USB key? This is in case I lose the USB key. I'd be looking at encrypting the entire "/dev/sdb1" USB key partition. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 27 11:51:18 2014 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 07:51:18 -0400 Subject: Using USB key as real home and possible encryption? In-Reply-To: <20140427030639.GA3206-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20140427030639.GA3206@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <535CEF36.5080405@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > So now the worry is not losing the USB key. Is there some form of > transparent on-the-fly encryption available that would allow me to read > *AND WRTE TO* the USB key? This is in case I lose the USB key. I'd be > looking at encrypting the entire "/dev/sdb1" USB key partition. When you format a partition, there's always an option to encrypt it, but I haven't tried that. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 27 14:58:41 2014 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:58:41 -0400 Subject: Using USB key as real home and possible encryption? In-Reply-To: <535CEF36.5080405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20140427030639.GA3206@waltdnes.org> <535CEF36.5080405@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 27 April 2014 07:51, James Knott wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: > > So now the worry is not losing the USB key. Is there some form of > > transparent on-the-fly encryption available that would allow me to read > > *AND WRTE TO* the USB key? This is in case I lose the USB key. I'd be > > looking at encrypting the entire "/dev/sdb1" USB key partition. > > When you format a partition, there's always an option to encrypt it, but > I haven't tried that. > The default encryption for Linux is LUKS. I used that not only for /home/ on my desktop, but also for my removable backup drives. Ubuntu 12.04 with LXDE recognizes the encrypted partitions when they're connected by USB and asks for a password to automount them, so this should work fine for what you're looking at. I'm no longer using automount - mostly because I switched to Openbox, but partly because I'm told automount is totally pooched in the newer Ubuntu and Debian installs - I've confirmed with a recent Jessie install. I use pmount and have been fairly happy with it. A couple friends are trying out udevil. Here are the steps I use to encrypt a partition for use (partition can be unformatted, it will be wiped): # cryptsetup --verify-passphrase --key-size 256 luksFormat /dev/sdb1 # cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sdb1 VolumeLabel # mke2fs -j -L VolumeLabel -m 2 -t ext4 /dev/mapper/VolumeLabel Not an explanation, but should give you pointers for where to look. As with any destructive disk operation, you're pointing a loaded gun: be careful. If anyone who knows this process better than me ("I am not an expert," etc.) wants to point out errors in my method, please do: I'd like improve it if possible. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 27 16:06:37 2014 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 12:06:37 -0400 Subject: Using USB key as real home and possible encryption? In-Reply-To: <20140427030639.GA3206-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20140427030639.GA3206@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <535D2B0D.40005@utoronto.ca> On 04/26/2014 11:06 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Let's say I want to go travelling with my laptop, and I don't want to > lose confidential stuff if I lose the laptop. 64 and 128 gigabyte USB > keys are now available. I intend to... > > * set up an innocuous /home/waltdnes directory on the laptop > * format a 64 or 128 gigabyte USB key as ext2fs > * copy the contents of my desktop's /home/waltdnes directory to the key > * when I want to use the "desktop $HOME dir", I'll mount the USB key over > top of /home/waltdnes, e.g... > mount -t ext2 /dev/sdb1 /home/waltdnes You want to be absolutely certain that the permissions on unmounted /home/waltdnes are something like 555 or even more restrictive. This permission set will ensure that if the mount point fails e.g. you knock your USB stick loose, or yank it out, or forget to mount it etc., that no writes will accumulate in the unmounted /home/waltdnes directory. This is critical because if you don't notice such a failure, nothing gets written to the underlying unencrypted mount point. On mount, the permissions of contained directories and files are then used if you use ext4. If you have an issue with mismatched uid/gid across the USB key and different systems, you can use bindfs (http://bindfs.org/) to map your systems' uid/gid to the filesystem's. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 27 18:08:50 2014 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 14:08:50 -0400 Subject: Using USB key as real home and possible encryption? In-Reply-To: <535D2B0D.40005-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20140427030639.GA3206@waltdnes.org> <535D2B0D.40005@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20140427180850.GA4023@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 12:06:37PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote > On mount, the permissions of contained directories and files are then > used if you use ext4. Isn't this the case regardless of the fs type? I want to use ext2fs, because I understand that a journalling fs is rough on a USB key or SD card or any kind of flash drive. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 27 18:32:08 2014 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 14:32:08 -0400 Subject: when you build something foolproof... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140427183208.GC29359@adb.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > ... they invent a better fool. > > (I'm behind the times, I know.) > > I got a slap-bracelet / USB flash memory as swag a while back. > > We just tried it for transporting pictures. I plugged it into my > computer's USB port, and nothing happened. It turns out that the usb plug > had no housing, only a tongue, and so could be plugged in backwards (and > not work). > > One of the few things USB got half right was that you could not plug it in > backwards. But we've now had innovation. > > (I say "half right" because the obviously right approach would be to have > it work whichever way it is plugged in. The *next* USB connector is > supposed to do that.) > > (My Lenovo ThinkPads, like most notebooks, have barrel plugs, with > complete rotational symmetry. My latest Lenovo (IdeaPad) has a > rectangular plug with 180-degree symmetry, like the new USB. This doesn't > seem like progress.) Part of the problem is that they don't make it easy to plug it in the right way around first go. If you have to have a connector that doesn't work flipped over, then make eg one side textured and the other smooth so you can tell which way you're holding it, and mark the socket so you know which side takes the top of the connector. The best solution I've found with USB A connectors is that if you look at which side has the USB logo and put that "up" with regard to where the motherboard is sitting in the computer it's usually right, but I have at least one counterexample I have to deal with. And that still depends on having to stop and look at it. Meanwhile, the old PS/half connectors had a flat one one side and I could always without even looking at it rotate it to the correct alignment right away. That IMHO made it a better connector. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 27 20:58:12 2014 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 16:58:12 -0400 Subject: Using USB key as real home and possible encryption? In-Reply-To: <20140427180850.GA4023-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20140427030639.GA3206@waltdnes.org> <535D2B0D.40005@utoronto.ca> <20140427180850.GA4023@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <535D6F64.9080000@utoronto.ca> On 04/27/2014 02:08 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 12:06:37PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote > >> On mount, the permissions of contained directories and files are then >> used if you use ext4. > > Isn't this the case regardless of the fs type? I want to use ext2fs, > because I understand that a journalling fs is rough on a USB key or SD > card or any kind of flash drive. Mount lets you specify uid/gid on some filesystem types e.g fat32, though I haven't used any fs where I've needed to be explicit. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 27 23:30:51 2014 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 18:30:51 -0500 Subject: MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer; laptop won't stay connected to AC Message-ID: I'm trying to get a Toshiba Satellite Pro A110 working with Debian Wheezy. I get this error - MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to IO-APIC When I startup and log into the desktop, the AC is connected and the battery charges normally then in a few moments disconnects. I can navigate the desktop a little but if I open a terminal the resulting kernel events trigger the switch to battery power. This notebook is circa 2006 and the bios is Phoenix from 2004. dmesg shows the ACPI 's DSDT was compiled by MS and there is a known issue with the miss-referenced location of the 8254 timer. I made a copy of /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/DSDT and decompiled it with iasl. I recompiled after I fixed the various method issues and updated grub to use the modified table. udevadm shows KERNEL[4638.288193] change /devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0A03:00/device:00/ACPI0003:00/power_supply/ACAD (power_supply) UDEV [4638.297613] change /devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0A03:00/device:00/ACPI0003:00/power_supply/ACAD (power_supply) KERNEL[4639.300775] change /devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0A03:00/device:00/PNP0C0A:00/power_supply/BAT1 (power_supply) UDEV [4639.302402] change /devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0A03:00/device:00/PNP0C0A:00/power_supply/BAT1 (power_supply) If I leave the system to it's own devices, something on loopback, I guess, triggers the disconnect from the AC. If I run udevadm monitor, it seems to run as a tunnel and keeps the AC alive and the battery charges. If I open a new terminal the AC disconnects. Has anyone slogged all the way through the southbridge to get to the clock? This is beginning to feel like that old WW2 movie "The Bridges At Remagin" someone changed all the signs. Thanks Russell -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 28 03:13:44 2014 From: northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 23:13:44 -0400 Subject: Using USB key as real home and possible encryption? In-Reply-To: <535D6F64.9080000-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20140427030639.GA3206@waltdnes.org> <535D2B0D.40005@utoronto.ca> <20140427180850.GA4023@waltdnes.org> <535D6F64.9080000@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: This one is cool: https://github.com/sporkexec/rubberhose David On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 04/27/2014 02:08 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 12:06:37PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote > > > >> On mount, the permissions of contained directories and files are then > >> used if you use ext4. > > > > Isn't this the case regardless of the fs type? I want to use ext2fs, > > because I understand that a journalling fs is rough on a USB key or SD > > card or any kind of flash drive. > > Mount lets you specify uid/gid on some filesystem types e.g fat32, > though I haven't used any fs where I've needed to be explicit. > > Cheers, Jamon > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 28 12:45:24 2014 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:45:24 -0300 Subject: when you build something foolproof... In-Reply-To: <20140427183208.GC29359-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20140427183208.GC29359@adb.ca> Message-ID: I always thought that PS2 was a very good connector, until someone I sold a IBM PS2 keyboard to a girl, and she tried to screw it on the connector. She called me later saying the keyboard was non functional, and I got it back with a badly twisted connectors. I straightened them up and got to her home to connect the keyboard and show her that the keyboard was working fine. I never thought I could put "physical keyboard installer" on my curriculum... Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2014-04-27 15:32 GMT-03:00 Anthony de Boer : > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > ... they invent a better fool. > > > > (I'm behind the times, I know.) > > > > I got a slap-bracelet / USB flash memory as swag a while back. > > > > We just tried it for transporting pictures. I plugged it into my > > computer's USB port, and nothing happened. It turns out that the usb > plug > > had no housing, only a tongue, and so could be plugged in backwards (and > > not work). > > > > One of the few things USB got half right was that you could not plug it > in > > backwards. But we've now had innovation. > > > > (I say "half right" because the obviously right approach would be to have > > it work whichever way it is plugged in. The *next* USB connector is > > supposed to do that.) > > > > (My Lenovo ThinkPads, like most notebooks, have barrel plugs, with > > complete rotational symmetry. My latest Lenovo (IdeaPad) has a > > rectangular plug with 180-degree symmetry, like the new USB. This > doesn't > > seem like progress.) > > Part of the problem is that they don't make it easy to plug it in the > right way around first go. If you have to have a connector that doesn't > work flipped over, then make eg one side textured and the other smooth so > you can tell which way you're holding it, and mark the socket so you know > which side takes the top of the connector. > > The best solution I've found with USB A connectors is that if you look at > which side has the USB logo and put that "up" with regard to where the > motherboard is sitting in the computer it's usually right, but I have at > least one counterexample I have to deal with. And that still depends on > having to stop and look at it. > > Meanwhile, the old PS/half connectors had a flat one one side and I could > always without even looking at it rotate it to the correct alignment > right away. That IMHO made it a better connector. > > -- > Anthony de Boer > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 28 19:03:09 2014 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 15:03:09 -0400 Subject: Using USB key as real home and possible encryption? In-Reply-To: References: <20140427030639.GA3206@waltdnes.org> <535CEF36.5080405@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20140428190309.GA3736@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 10:58:41AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote > The default encryption for Linux is LUKS. I used that not only for /home/ > on my desktop, but also for my removable backup drives. Ubuntu 12.04 with > LXDE recognizes the encrypted partitions when they're connected by USB and > asks for a password to automount them, so this should work fine for what > you're looking at. I'm no longer using automount - mostly because I > switched to Openbox, but partly because I'm told automount is totally > pooched in the newer Ubuntu and Debian installs - I've confirmed with a > recent Jessie install. I use pmount and have been fairly happy with it. A > couple friends are trying out udevil. Now that I know what keywords to search for on Google, I'm starting to find interesting stuff. E.g. http://sleepyhead.de/howto/?href=cryptpart shows how to use cryptsetup with and without LUKS. ======================================================================== dm-crypt without LUKS # cryptsetup -y create sdc1 /dev/sdc1 # or any other partition like /dev/loop0 # dmsetup ls # check it, will display: sdc1 (254, 0) # mkfs.ext3 /dev/mapper/sdc1 # This is done only the first time! # mount -t ext3 /dev/mapper/sdc1 /mnt # umount /mnt/ # cryptsetup remove sdc1 # Detach the encrypted partition Do exactly the same (without the mkfs part!) to re-attach the partition. If the password is not correct, the mount command will fail. In this case simply remove the map sdc1 (cryptsetup remove sdc1) and create it again. ======================================================================== I did a --pretend emerge of cryptsetup (I'm running Gentoo linux), and I see that it pulls in lvm2 as a dependancy, presumably to enable the /dev/mapper/* entries. Any comments on whether I'm better off with or without LUKS? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists