From northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 1 04:37:05 2013 From: northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 00:37:05 -0400 Subject: IPv6 Providers? In-Reply-To: <52728952.4040600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20131031015614.GA87793@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <5271BD5E.9040607@rogers.com> <5272849A.2020102@ss.org> <5272852B.4000804@ss.org> <52728952.4040600@rogers.com> Message-ID: Teksavvy and Hurricane Electric offer IPv6 aswell. the Hurricane electric setup is damn sweat... they walk you through the whole process, you can sign up online. they even have a hugs battery of conf generators. I got my fortigate up and running very quickly. David On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 12:46 PM, James Knott wrote: > Scott Sullivan wrote: > >> Neil, I'd love to know which broker you using. Maybe you could let us > >> know your experience and break it out in to a separate thread for others > >> to chime in on? > > > > I meant James there. > > James, mind following up on that here? > > > > I use Freenet6 through gogo6 > http://www.gogo6.com/main > > You have to register for the web site and then again if you want to have > a static IPv6 address or subnet. They have client software for Windows > and Linux/Mac/Unix. The Linux software has to be compiled and there's a > minor patch needed for later versions of GCC. They provide a /56 > subnet. I've had mine for about 3.5 years. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 1 11:23:02 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2013 07:23:02 -0400 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52738F16.2090908@gmail.com> On 13-10-31 06:08 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I think he's quite insightful > Yes, but he's got the bit about smart meters wrong: you can't create a useful demand management system from averaged results. It's the very brief peaks that cause system operators to bring on the most expensive peaking generation. Without realtime reporting back to the utilities and operators, load shifting would be impossible. (He'd have kittens about the new smart appliances that are coming in: individual loads identify themselves and report back to the meter. Each appliance can be remotely scheduled to run when power is cheapest. Say goodbye to the power switch; say hello to the "When do you need this done by?" switch.) He also assumes that most power meters are able to report their realtime stats to the homeowner. They don't; meters are owned and operated by the utility. At best, your utility might give you one of those PowerCost monitors. Otherwise, you're on your own. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 1 11:45:01 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2013 07:45:01 -0400 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: <52738F16.2090908-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52738F16.2090908@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5273943D.5000207@rogers.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > the most expensive peaking generation The ones we spent over a billion on not getting. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 1 11:46:44 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 07:46:44 -0400 Subject: Eben Moglen: Snowden and the Future Message-ID: http://snowdenandthefuture.info/index.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 1 14:05:43 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:05:43 -0400 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: <5273943D.5000207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <52738F16.2090908@gmail.com> <5273943D.5000207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5273B537.1070601@gmail.com> On 13-11-01 07:45 AM, James Knott wrote: > > The ones we spent over a billion on not getting. While paying for generation you're never going to get is expensive, the cancelled plants* weren't of the type I as meaning. They were going to be combined cycle, which adds a steam plant to a heavy frame gas turbine. They are fairly efficient, can have medium to high capacity factors, but take a little time to spin up and raise steam. The expensive peakers are basically a jet engine in a box with a shaft going to a generator. All the heat from the exhaust is wasted. These can be spun up in minutes, but might only run 10% of the time. Okay, I'll be quiet now. Not everyone geeks to electrical supply and demand. cheers, Stewart *: there's some doubt amongst the environmental engineering crowd that the Oakville plant could ever have been permitted anyway. What with the particulates and emissions from the 403 and the plumes that belch up our way from the grubby old coal plants in the Ohio River valley, Oakville is already at a very low air quality without the additional gas generation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 2 07:47:41 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2013 03:47:41 -0400 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: <5273B537.1070601-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52738F16.2090908@gmail.com> <5273943D.5000207@rogers.com> <5273B537.1070601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5274AE1D.70606@sobac.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > *: there's some doubt amongst the environmental engineering crowd > that the Oakville plant could ever have been permitted anyway. What > with the particulates and emissions from the 403 and the plumes that > belch up our way from the grubby old coal plants in the Ohio River > valley, Oakville is already at a very low air quality without the > additional gas generation. Isn't there already a natural gas generating station in Oakville at Trafalgar Road and the 401? OpenStreetMap: http://osm.org/go/ZXtfkNYF-?m= Funny, OSM shows no power lines emanating from it. Needs a mapping party... > Okay, I'll be quiet now. Not everyone geeks to electrical supply and > demand. Probably more of us on this list than normal for a given population... --Bob. On 13-11-01 10:05 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 13-11-01 07:45 AM, James Knott wrote: >> >> The ones we spent over a billion on not getting. > > While paying for generation you're never going to get is expensive, > the cancelled plants* weren't of the type I as meaning. They were > going to be combined cycle, which adds a steam plant to a heavy frame > gas turbine. They are fairly efficient, can have medium to high > capacity factors, but take a little time to spin up and raise steam. > > The expensive peakers are basically a jet engine in a box with a > shaft going to a generator. All the heat from the exhaust is wasted. > These can be spun up in minutes, but might only run 10% of the > time. > > Okay, I'll be quiet now. Not everyone geeks to electrical supply and > demand. > > cheers, Stewart > > *: there's some doubt amongst the environmental engineering crowd > that the Oakville plant could ever have been permitted anyway. What > with the particulates and emissions from the 403 and the plumes that > belch up our way from the grubby old coal plants in the Ohio River > valley, Oakville is already at a very low air quality without the > additional gas generation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, > wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 2 15:04:13 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 11:04:13 -0400 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 31, 2013 6:09 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > > I think he's quite insightful > < http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/10/a-necessary-evil-what-it-takes-for-democracy-to-survive-surveillance/ > Stallman falls into the 'there's a technical solution to everything' trap. The problem is not privacy. In an interconnected world, privacy is, by definition, dead. The problem is democracy. In a world of interconnected peers, the loss of privacy is meaningless because it is equally distributed. It is only because wealth and power are so unequally distributed that privacy is abused. By the wealthy and powerful of course. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 2 15:34:02 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2013 16:34:02 +0100 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52751B6A.70002@gmail.com> On 02/11/13 16:04, Thomas Milne wrote: > > > On Oct 31, 2013 6:09 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" > wrote: > > > > I think he's quite insightful > > > > > Stallman falls into the 'there's a technical solution to everything' trap. > Agree. The problems are not due to technical abilities of governments or sociaties. Problems are in how both coexist ;) And these are of more spiritual nature, not technical. The fact itself that we consider things in terms of that duality is warring. As of that, Stallman is certainly not a visioner, for me. Well, he still crowls well with his ideas. zb. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 2 20:59:03 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2013 16:59:03 -0400 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: <5274AE1D.70606-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52738F16.2090908@gmail.com> <5273943D.5000207@rogers.com> <5273B537.1070601@gmail.com> <5274AE1D.70606@sobac.com> Message-ID: <52756797.10304@rogers.com> Bob Jonkman wrote: >> *: there's some doubt amongst the environmental engineering crowd >> > that the Oakville plant could ever have been permitted anyway. What >> > with the particulates and emissions from the 403 and the plumes that >> > belch up our way from the grubby old coal plants in the Ohio River >> > valley, Oakville is already at a very low air quality without the >> > additional gas generation. > Isn't there already a natural gas generating station in Oakville at > Trafalgar Road and the 401? There used to be a generating station, owned by Ford, on the Oakville site on Royal Windsor Dr.. It originally burned coal, then converted to oil and again to gas. The plant in Mississauga wasn't that far from the old coal burning Lakeview site. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paultarvydas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 2 22:22:32 2013 From: paultarvydas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Tarvydas) Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2013 18:22:32 -0400 Subject: PDP manual describing coroutines Message-ID: <52757B28.9060200@gmail.com> Over on the FBP google group, Brad Cox mentioned that he learned about coroutines from a PDP-x manual, which described coroutines and subroutines as equals. He thought that it was the PDP-8 assembler manual, but this appears not to be the case. Does anyone know which manual contained this explanation, and, does anyone have a copy of this manual that can be shared? Thank you pt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wheagy-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 3 01:21:17 2013 From: wheagy-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Bill Heagy) Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 21:21:17 -0400 Subject: PDP manual describing coroutines In-Reply-To: <52757B28.9060200-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52757B28.9060200@gmail.com> Message-ID: Paul Tarvydas wrote: > Over on the FBP google group, Brad Cox mentioned that he learned about > coroutines from a PDP-x manual, which described coroutines and > subroutines as equals. He thought that it was the PDP-8 assembler > manual, but this appears not to be the case. > > Does anyone know which manual contained this explanation, and, does > anyone have a copy of this manual that can be shared? > > Thank you > pt > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > I know PDP-11 had coroutines, probably in the assembler manual. Sorry, I don't have a copy any more. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 3 01:33:45 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 21:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PDP manual describing coroutines In-Reply-To: <52757B28.9060200-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52757B28.9060200@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Paul Tarvydas | Over on the FBP google group, Brad Cox mentioned that he learned about | coroutines from a PDP-x manual, which described coroutines and subroutines as | equals. He thought that it was the PDP-8 assembler manual, but this appears | not to be the case. | | Does anyone know which manual contained this explanation, and, does anyone | have a copy of this manual that can be shared? There was no "the PDP-8 assembler manual" as far as I remember. There were books like the 1967 "The Digital Small Computer Handbook", the somewhat different 1968 book with the same title, and the "Introduction to programming: PDP-8 Family Computers". At least those are the ones I have in storage. The PDP-10 and PDP-11 also supported coroutines. See, for example (random Google hit). Coroutines are easy to implement on any machine that doesn't use a stack discipline. Once you have a stack, you need some way to kludge a branching stack, possibly behind the back of the runtime system. As I remember it, I invented coroutines on the PDP-8 (in 1968). Not that I was the first! But it means that I don't think that those PDP-8 manuals describe coroutines. I may only have had the first book at that time. The PDP-8 subroutine call instruction jms sub would: 1) store the return address in sub 2) transfer control to sub+1 All addresses are of 12-bit words and all addresses fit in a 12-bit work. Note: the return address is stored amongst the instruction stream. Supporting recursion takes work. Coroutines could be coded like this (re-invented just now; may be wrong or not optimal): a_entry: .word 0 ; entry point and return address jmp @a_yield ; jump to where a_yield points a_yield: .word a_start ; where to resume a jmp @a_entry ; jump to where a_entry points ; sample body for a. ; Each call of a yields a charcter in the accumulator. ; It yields the characters a, b, c in sequence and then repeats a_start: cla ; clear the accumulator tad ='a' ; add 'a' jms a_yield ; yield to a's caller cla tad ='b' jms a_yield cla tad ='c' jmp a_start (I've taken a lot of liberties with the notation to make it look like conventional modern assembly languages.) - aentry is the entry point to the corouting (each time). To call the routine (from outside): jms aentry - astart would be the label on the initial starting point of the coroutine. - the coroutine would yield control (return to its caller) by calling ayield: jms ayield - the very first time the coroutine is called, the aentry+1 jmp would use the intial content of ayield as the starting point of the couroutine. So it must be suitably initialized (astart). Notice how, to the body of the coroutine, the caller looks like a subroutine? That's the magic of coroutines. The machine with the easiest implementation of coroutines must be the RCA CDP-1802. It had 16 registers. You could switch which one was the program counter (SEP command). So if you had a small number of coroutines, you could dedicate one register for each to be the program counter. To transfer to another coroutine, just switch to that coroutine's program counter. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 4 02:11:38 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 21:11:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: War story: another oddball partition table causes problem years after creation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Ubuntu 12.04 won't install due to odd partitioning | Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 01:18:59 -0400 (EDT) | and run parted from the console, it prints a terse message to stderr: | ====================== | libparted : 2.3 | ====================== | Can't have a partition outside the disk! I got another of these odd partitions tables. This time it's in an external hard drive dating back to 2010 August. I wonder what software was broken then -- I don't have a record of what I used for partitioning then. I now want to change the partitions and gparted won't touch it. The symptoms are: 1) gparted seemed to show the unassigned space as being enormous (perhaps hundreds of thousands of terabytes). 2) it will not deal with the disk, reporting Can't have overlapping partitions Disk /dev/sdb: 1500.3 GB, 1500301910016 bytes, 2930277168 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk label type: dos Disk identifier: 0x3c1257ff Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdb1 * 14336 2930272064 1465128864+ 5 Extended /dev/sdb5 16384 488390655 244187136 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sdb6 488392704 976766975 244187136 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sdb7 976769024 1465143295 244187136 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sdb8 1465145344 1953519615 244187136 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sdb9 1953521664 2441895935 244187136 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sdb10 2441897984 2930272255 244187136 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT Notice that logical partition 10's end is slightly larger than the end of the extended partition 1 (which is supposed to contain it). Each partition starts on a 1MiB boundary (good) Each partition is a multiple of 1MiB in length EXCEPT the extended partition. There is still room at the end of the drive so I think all I have to do is zap the partition table to change the end of partition 1 to match the end of partition 10. OK, here's what I did: - unmounted all the partitions (something automounts them) [root at g70 hugh]# sudo sfdisk -d /dev/sdb > sdb-backup.txt sfdisk: Warning: extended partition does not start at a cylinder boundary. DOS and Linux will interpret the contents differently. [root at g70 hugh]# cat sdb-backup.txt # partition table of /dev/sdb unit: sectors /dev/sdb1 : start= 14336, size=2930257729, Id= 5, bootable /dev/sdb2 : start= 0, size= 0, Id= 0 /dev/sdb3 : start= 0, size= 0, Id= 0 /dev/sdb4 : start= 0, size= 0, Id= 0 /dev/sdb5 : start= 16384, size=488374272, Id= 7 /dev/sdb6 : start=488392704, size=488374272, Id= 7 /dev/sdb7 : start=976769024, size=488374272, Id= 7 /dev/sdb8 : start=1465145344, size=488374272, Id= 7 /dev/sdb9 : start=1953521664, size=488374272, Id= 7 /dev/sdb10: start=2441897984, size=488374272, Id= 7 [root at g70 hugh]# diff sdb-backup.txt sdb-fixed.txt 4c4 < /dev/sdb1 : start= 14336, size=2930257729, Id= 5, bootable --- > /dev/sdb1 : start= 14336, size=2930257920, Id= 5, bootable [root at g70 hugh]# sudo sfdisk /dev/sdb < sdb-fixed.txt Checking that no-one is using this disk right now ... OK Disk /dev/sdb: 182401 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 sectors/track sfdisk: Warning: extended partition does not start at a cylinder boundary. DOS and Linux will interpret the contents differently. Old situation: Units: cylinders of 8225280 bytes, blocks of 1024 bytes, counting from 0 Device Boot Start End #cyls #blocks Id System /dev/sdb1 * 0+ 182400 182401- 1465128864+ 5 Extended /dev/sdb2 0 - 0 0 0 Empty /dev/sdb3 0 - 0 0 0 Empty /dev/sdb4 0 - 0 0 0 Empty /dev/sdb5 1+ 30400- 30400- 244187136 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sdb6 30401+ 60800- 30400- 244187136 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT sfdisk: start: (c,h,s) expected (1023,254,63) found (1023,10,10) /dev/sdb7 60801+ 91200- 30400- 244187136 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT sfdisk: start: (c,h,s) expected (1023,254,63) found (1023,15,15) /dev/sdb8 91201+ 121600- 30400- 244187136 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT sfdisk: start: (c,h,s) expected (1023,254,63) found (1023,20,20) /dev/sdb9 121601+ 152000- 30400- 244187136 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT sfdisk: start: (c,h,s) expected (1023,254,63) found (1023,25,25) /dev/sdb10 152001+ 182401- 30400- 244187136 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT sfdisk: start: (c,h,s) expected (1023,254,63) found (1023,30,30) New situation: Units: sectors of 512 bytes, counting from 0 Device Boot Start End #sectors Id System /dev/sdb1 * 14336 2930272255 2930257920 5 Extended /dev/sdb2 0 - 0 0 Empty /dev/sdb3 0 - 0 0 Empty /dev/sdb4 0 - 0 0 Empty /dev/sdb5 16384 488390655 488374272 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sdb6 488392704 976766975 488374272 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sdb7 976769024 1465143295 488374272 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sdb8 1465145344 1953519615 488374272 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sdb9 1953521664 2441895935 488374272 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sdb10 2441897984 2930272255 488374272 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT Warning: partition 1 does not end at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition 5 does not end at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition [6] does not start at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition [6] does not end at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition 6 does not end at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition [7] does not start at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition [7] does not end at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition 7 does not end at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition [8] does not start at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition [8] does not end at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition 8 does not end at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition [9] does not start at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition [9] does not end at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition 9 does not end at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition [10] does not start at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition [10] does not end at a cylinder boundary Warning: partition 10 does not end at a cylinder boundary Successfully wrote the new partition table Re-reading the partition table ... If you created or changed a DOS partition, /dev/foo7, say, then use dd(1) to zero the first 512 bytes: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/foo7 bs=512 count=1 (See fdisk(8).) [root at g70 hugh]# parted /dev/sdb unit s print Model: WDC WD15 WD-WMAVU145 (scsi) Disk /dev/sdb: 2930277168s Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B Partition Table: msdos Disk Flags: Number Start End Size Type File system Flags 1 14336s 2930272255s 2930257920s extended boot 5 16384s 488390655s 488374272s logical ntfs 6 488392704s 976766975s 488374272s logical ntfs 7 976769024s 1465143295s 488374272s logical ntfs 8 1465145344s 1953519615s 488374272s logical ntfs 9 1953521664s 2441895935s 488374272s logical ntfs 10 2441897984s 2930272255s 488374272s logical ntfs -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 4 13:31:47 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 08:31:47 -0500 Subject: A keystroke away from Doom. In-Reply-To: References: <526170B2.8090608@ss.org> Message-ID: <5277A1C3.1000400@utoronto.ca> On 13-10-19 01:41 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: > (2) One night I was up late working on a problem. I stayed up late > working on this because I was stuck trying to solve it. The problem was > that the database backups were not restoring properly, and as we all > know a backup needs to be tested to be a good backup. The developers > were loading real data in preparation for launch so I had to get this > working soon. > > I was dumping the database to run another restore test and I put the > redirect around the wrong way. In my tired state I thought I had > over-written the database. My stress levels went up rather suddenly. I > assessed the situation and confirmed that I had not in fact damaged the > database. This reminded me of another important moral I ostensibly > already knew but wasn't following: > > Moral: Don't do sysadmin when extremely tired. It will only end in tears. Here's one for the late night OMGWTF files: It is really easy to remove an entire volume group with lvm tools versus reducing them by tab completing commands. On a production SAN. Running 20+ VM guests. So imagine if you will an entire 4TB SAN with no volume groups defined with VMs now running on top because I pebkac'ed a tab complete. It is that easy - tab completion is usually a great aid in my .zshrc, but for root I've turned it off completely and make sure to use bash so I have to type everything out explicitly. To save things I paused all VMs and walked away for 5 minutes. This is a corollary to Robert's Moral 1) - WALK AWAY when things mess up like this. Like step away from the computer and walk/move/breathe. Then get out the disaster recovery plan and read the overview. After doing the above, with VMs paused and having got my bearings and planned for a late night data centre visit, I restored the volume group using a backup from /etc/lvm/backup. I unpaused and rebooted all the VMs. No one knew how close we'd come to complete failure. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gordontc-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 4 14:22:48 2013 From: gordontc-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Gordon Chillcott) Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 09:22:48 -0500 Subject: PDP manual describing coroutines In-Reply-To: References: <52757B28.9060200@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1383574968.2379.2.camel@hive.gordhome.local> I recall a description of co-routines somewhere in the RT-11 documentation. Just where in that documentation, I can't recall. I should mention that that documentation filled a number of binders. If you do find a full set of manuals, the only advice I can offer is my own rule that you look about a quarter of the way into the one manual that should have the least to do with the subject you're investigating. I seem to remember there was an Editor manual . . . Gordon On Sat, 2013-11-02 at 21:33 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Paul Tarvydas > > | Over on the FBP google group, Brad Cox mentioned that he learned about > | coroutines from a PDP-x manual, which described coroutines and subroutines as > | equals. He thought that it was the PDP-8 assembler manual, but this appears > | not to be the case. > | > | Does anyone know which manual contained this explanation, and, does anyone > | have a copy of this manual that can be shared? > > There was no "the PDP-8 assembler manual" as far as I remember. There > were books like the 1967 "The Digital Small Computer Handbook", the > somewhat different 1968 book with the same title, and the > "Introduction to programming: PDP-8 Family Computers". At least > those are the ones I have in storage. > > > > > The PDP-10 and PDP-11 also supported coroutines. > > See, for example (random > Google hit). > > Coroutines are easy to implement on any machine that doesn't use a > stack discipline. Once you have a stack, you need some way to kludge > a branching stack, possibly behind the back of the runtime system. > > As I remember it, I invented coroutines on the PDP-8 (in 1968). Not > that I was the first! But it means that I don't think that those > PDP-8 manuals describe coroutines. I may only have had the first > book at that time. > > The PDP-8 subroutine call instruction > jms sub > would: > 1) store the return address in sub > 2) transfer control to sub+1 > > All addresses are of 12-bit words and all addresses fit in a 12-bit > work. Note: the return address is stored amongst the instruction > stream. Supporting recursion takes work. > > Coroutines could be coded like this (re-invented just now; may be > wrong or not optimal): > > a_entry: .word 0 ; entry point and return address > jmp @a_yield ; jump to where a_yield points > a_yield: .word a_start ; where to resume a > jmp @a_entry ; jump to where a_entry points > > ; sample body for a. > ; Each call of a yields a charcter in the accumulator. > ; It yields the characters a, b, c in sequence and then repeats > a_start: cla ; clear the accumulator > tad ='a' ; add 'a' > jms a_yield ; yield to a's caller > cla > tad ='b' > jms a_yield > cla > tad ='c' > jmp a_start > > (I've taken a lot of liberties with the notation to make it look like > conventional modern assembly languages.) > > - aentry is the entry point to the corouting (each time). > To call the routine (from outside): jms aentry > > - astart would be the label on the initial starting point of the > coroutine. > > - the coroutine would yield control (return to its caller) by calling > ayield: jms ayield > > - the very first time the coroutine is called, the aentry+1 jmp > would use the intial content of ayield as the starting point > of the couroutine. So it must be suitably initialized (astart). > > Notice how, to the body of the coroutine, the caller looks like a > subroutine? That's the magic of coroutines. > > The machine with the easiest implementation of coroutines must be the > RCA CDP-1802. It had 16 registers. You could switch which one was > the program counter (SEP command). So if you had a small number of > coroutines, you could dedicate one register for each to be the program > counter. To transfer to another coroutine, just switch to that > coroutine's program counter. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 4 14:17:39 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 12:17:39 -0200 Subject: A keystroke away from Doom. In-Reply-To: <5277A1C3.1000400-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <526170B2.8090608@ss.org> <5277A1C3.1000400@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Wow, that would be really catastrophic! I got my catastrophe story too.. I was working as an intern, and called the storage admin to add 30 mainframe disks to a linux running Oracle. I explicitly asked him to give me 30 disks starting on the range 0.0.4000 (explanation: this was a Linux running in a mainframe, mainframe disks at that shop had only 7.9GB each, and there are not WWPN or LUN, just the device address, something like 0.0.abcd, in hexa, and they map to /dev/dasdxx, not /dev/sda or /dev/hda), so I would format them all, partition and add to the VG using a script. I listed the current disks, and found that /dev/dasdbt where the last disk. The next morning the guy called me, said that the disks are ready. The guy gave me half the disks on the desired range, and half scattered everywhere. I changed my script to format everything from /dev/dasdbu onwards. And Oracle died, and the database had no backup... I didn't got fired, but it took us a lot of work to restore the system... And a second story: my boss wanted to change the ownership of /var/firebird to firebird:dba on our only production server, and issued "chown -R firebird:dba .", thinking he was in /var/thunderbird... The command took more time than it should, and he saw he was in /var, issued "cd firebrid" (not firebird), and issued the chown... He tried to hit ^C, but was too late... Broke everything: our Apache died, our email died, all data from our clients where on /var and went inaccessible, and (as always on any disaster history) backups were never made... Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2013/11/4 Jamon Camisso > On 13-10-19 01:41 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: > > (2) One night I was up late working on a problem. I stayed up late > > working on this because I was stuck trying to solve it. The problem was > > that the database backups were not restoring properly, and as we all > > know a backup needs to be tested to be a good backup. The developers > > were loading real data in preparation for launch so I had to get this > > working soon. > > > > I was dumping the database to run another restore test and I put the > > redirect around the wrong way. In my tired state I thought I had > > over-written the database. My stress levels went up rather suddenly. I > > assessed the situation and confirmed that I had not in fact damaged the > > database. This reminded me of another important moral I ostensibly > > already knew but wasn't following: > > > > Moral: Don't do sysadmin when extremely tired. It will only end in > tears. > > Here's one for the late night OMGWTF files: > > It is really easy to remove an entire volume group with lvm tools versus > reducing them by tab completing commands. On a production SAN. Running > 20+ VM guests. > > So imagine if you will an entire 4TB SAN with no volume groups defined > with VMs now running on top because I pebkac'ed a tab complete. It is > that easy - tab completion is usually a great aid in my .zshrc, but for > root I've turned it off completely and make sure to use bash so I have > to type everything out explicitly. > > To save things I paused all VMs and walked away for 5 minutes. This is a > corollary to Robert's Moral 1) - WALK AWAY when things mess up like > this. Like step away from the computer and walk/move/breathe. Then get > out the disaster recovery plan and read the overview. > > After doing the above, with VMs paused and having got my bearings and > planned for a late night data centre visit, I restored the volume group > using a backup from /etc/lvm/backup. I unpaused and rebooted all the VMs. > > No one knew how close we'd come to complete failure. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 4 14:18:50 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 09:18:50 -0500 Subject: Looking for something that allows me to do remote calls Message-ID: I'd like to get various pieces of information such as iptables from a machine remotely, using a java program. One option is to use ssh to make calls, but determining when it is done is problematic. IE you can wait for a certain amount of time for all of the output, but that just seems fraught with problems. Another option is to use NRPE or the like to make calls remotely. Is there something out there that does this already ? Dave Cramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 4 14:23:57 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 09:23:57 -0500 Subject: Looking for something that allows me to do remote calls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131104142357.GA87394@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Some of the environs I work in use CFEngine. I use that to record and collect any information I required. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 4 14:29:58 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 12:29:58 -0200 Subject: Looking for something that allows me to do remote calls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I found online two ways to do this with java+ssh: http://zerioh.tripod.com/ressources/sockets.html http://www.jcraft.com/jsch/examples/ Take a look, people sais those examples works and are interesting... Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2013/11/4 Dave Cramer > I'd like to get various pieces of information such as iptables from a > machine remotely, using a java program. > > One option is to use ssh to make calls, but determining when it is done is > problematic. IE you can wait for a certain amount of time for all of the > output, but that just seems fraught with problems. > > Another option is to use NRPE or the like to make calls remotely. > > Is there something out there that does this already ? > > Dave Cramer > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 4 14:53:24 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 09:53:24 -0500 Subject: Looking for something that allows me to do remote calls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I forgot to add one criteria, I do not want the client end to run Java, these are small machines, so something written in C or with a much smaller footprint than java would be nice I've tried jsch, getting the end of the stream is a PITA. I am going to play around with a custom prompt to mark the end. Dave Cramer On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Mauro Souza wrote: > I found online two ways to do this with java+ssh: > http://zerioh.tripod.com/ressources/sockets.html > http://www.jcraft.com/jsch/examples/ > > Take a look, people sais those examples works and are interesting... > > Mauro > http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 > Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. > > > 2013/11/4 Dave Cramer > >> I'd like to get various pieces of information such as iptables from a >> machine remotely, using a java program. >> >> One option is to use ssh to make calls, but determining when it is done >> is problematic. IE you can wait for a certain amount of time for all of the >> output, but that just seems fraught with problems. >> >> Another option is to use NRPE or the like to make calls remotely. >> >> Is there something out there that does this already ? >> >> Dave Cramer >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 4 15:05:59 2013 From: northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 10:05:59 -0500 Subject: Looking for something that allows me to do remote calls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe the local java can run an expect script that connects to the remote system. Expect is well suited to capture interactive sessions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expect On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I forgot to add one criteria, I do not want the client end to run Java, > these are small machines, so something written in C or with a much smaller > footprint than java would be nice > > I've tried jsch, getting the end of the stream is a PITA. I am going to > play around with a custom prompt to mark the end. > > Dave Cramer > > > On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Mauro Souza wrote: > >> I found online two ways to do this with java+ssh: >> http://zerioh.tripod.com/ressources/sockets.html >> http://www.jcraft.com/jsch/examples/ >> >> Take a look, people sais those examples works and are interesting... >> >> Mauro >> http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 >> Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. >> >> >> 2013/11/4 Dave Cramer >> >>> I'd like to get various pieces of information such as iptables from a >>> machine remotely, using a java program. >>> >>> One option is to use ssh to make calls, but determining when it is done >>> is problematic. IE you can wait for a certain amount of time for all of the >>> output, but that just seems fraught with problems. >>> >>> Another option is to use NRPE or the like to make calls remotely. >>> >>> Is there something out there that does this already ? >>> >>> Dave Cramer >>> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 4 15:56:27 2013 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 10:56:27 -0500 Subject: Debian Man Pages Online Message-ID: Useful if you want to check out a man page for packages not installed on your system: http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi -- (o< .: www.circuidipity.com .: twitter.com/circuidipity (/)_ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 4 17:46:32 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 12:46:32 -0500 Subject: Debian Man Pages Online In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5277DD78.4010304@sobac.com> On 13-11-04 10:56 AM, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: > Useful if you want to check out a man page for packages not installed > on your system: > > http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi > I've been using http://linux.die.net/man/ with a Firefox search plugin: http://mycroftproject.com/search-engines.html?name=die.net I suspect there are many more man page sites online... --Bob. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From me-3ZSMZGRXU0K2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 5 03:53:14 2013 From: me-3ZSMZGRXU0K2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (staticsafe) Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 22:53:14 -0500 Subject: Debian Man Pages Online In-Reply-To: <5277DD78.4010304-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <5277DD78.4010304@sobac.com> Message-ID: <52786BAA.4080309@staticsafe.ca> On 11/4/2013 12:46, Bob Jonkman wrote: > On 13-11-04 10:56 AM, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: >> Useful if you want to check out a man page for packages not >> installed on your system: >> >> http://manpages.debian.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi >> > > I've been using http://linux.die.net/man/ with a Firefox search > plugin: > > http://mycroftproject.com/search-engines.html?name=die.net > > I suspect there are many more man page sites online... > > --Bob. > http://man.cx/ is another nice one (easy to remember too). -- staticsafe O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org Please don't top post. It is not logical. Please don't CC me! I'm subscribed to whatever list I just posted on. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 5 05:29:16 2013 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 00:29:16 -0500 Subject: Looking for something that allows me to do remote calls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5278822C.2080902@dinamis.com> On 11/04/2013 09:18 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'd like to get various pieces of information such as iptables from a > machine remotely, using a java program. > > One option is to use ssh to make calls, but determining when it is > done is problematic. IE you can wait for a certain amount of time for > all of the output, but that just seems fraught with problems. > > Another option is to use NRPE or the like to make calls remotely. > > Is there something out there that does this already ? Fabric does this but it's not Java. It's Python. It might give you some ideas though. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay 647-778-8696 Dinamis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 5 14:33:34 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 09:33:34 -0500 Subject: Looking for something that allows me to do remote calls In-Reply-To: <5278822C.2080902-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <5278822C.2080902@dinamis.com> Message-ID: Thanks guys, I did manage to get Expect to work with Java and jsch, so that solves my problem for the most part Dave Cramer On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:29 AM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 11/04/2013 09:18 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > > I'd like to get various pieces of information such as iptables from a > > machine remotely, using a java program. > > > > One option is to use ssh to make calls, but determining when it is > > done is problematic. IE you can wait for a certain amount of time for > > all of the output, but that just seems fraught with problems. > > > > Another option is to use NRPE or the like to make calls remotely. > > > > Is there something out there that does this already ? > > Fabric does this but it's not Java. > It's Python. It might give you some ideas though. > > -- > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay > > 647-778-8696 > > Dinamis > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 5 17:42:54 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 12:42:54 -0500 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: <5273B537.1070601-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52738F16.2090908@gmail.com> <5273943D.5000207@rogers.com> <5273B537.1070601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20131105174253.GA13099@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 10:05:43AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 13-11-01 07:45 AM, James Knott wrote: > > > > The ones we spent over a billion on not getting. > > While paying for generation you're never going to get is expensive, the > cancelled plants* weren't of the type I as meaning. They were going to > be combined cycle, which adds a steam plant to a heavy frame gas > turbine. They are fairly efficient, can have medium to high capacity > factors, but take a little time to spin up and raise steam. > > The expensive peakers are basically a jet engine in a box with a shaft > going to a generator. All the heat from the exhaust is wasted. These can > be spun up in minutes, but might only run 10% of the time. > > Okay, I'll be quiet now. Not everyone geeks to electrical supply and demand. I think the good old diesel generators started with compressed air that could be started and synced to the grid in a few cycles of the power are the really impressive ones. Less than a second response time to demand, but most certainly not the most efficient or economical way to generate power. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 5 17:59:19 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 12:59:19 -0500 Subject: can't make ipv4 dhcp and ipv6 static both exist In-Reply-To: <20131031015614.GA87793-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20131031015614.GA87793@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20131105175919.GB13099@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 09:56:14PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > Greetings, > > On a debian laptop I have the following interfaces file. For some reason the > IPV6 address will not set. Why? > > auto lo br0 > iface lo inet loopback > iface lo inet6 loopback > > allow-hotplug br0 wlan0 > > iface br0 inet dhcp > bridge_ports eth0 > bridge_stop off > bridge_fd 0 > bridge_maxwait 0 > > iface br0 inet6 static > address 2001:470:1d:a2f::4 > netmask 64 > gateway 2001:470:1d:a2f::1 > > > root at neptune:/etc/network# ifconfig > br0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr f0:de:f1:d8:0d:87 > inet addr:172.16.100.19 Bcast:172.16.100.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 > inet6 addr: fe80::f2de:f1ff:fed8:d87/64 Scope:Link > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > RX packets:1965 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 > TX packets:1647 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 > RX bytes:1511472 (1.4 MiB) TX bytes:217730 (212.6 KiB) > > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr f0:de:f1:d8:0d:87 UP > BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > RX packets:7437 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 > TX packets:4924 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 > RX bytes:7126724 (6.7 MiB) TX bytes:650467 (635.2 KiB) > Interrupt:20 Memory:f2500000-f2520000 > > lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 > Mask:255.0.0.0 > inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host > UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:65536 Metric:1 > RX packets:10 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 > TX packets:10 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 > RX bytes:1380 (1.3 KiB) TX bytes:1380 (1.3 KiB) Very likely everytime the dhcp client for IPv4 gets an addres, it wipes all the addresses on the interface. I wonder if using network-manager to handle things instead would work better. I haven't tried doing both IPv4 and IPv6 at the same time that I recall with it (although maybe I did, but they would both havre been static in that case). Also why are you using ifconfig? ip addr and ip -6 addr are the modern ways to check IP settings. ifconfig doesn't generally work well with multiple IPs on an interface, and is just obsolete (and also uses /proc parsing rather than netlink). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 5 18:05:09 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 13:05:09 -0500 Subject: can't make ipv4 dhcp and ipv6 static both exist In-Reply-To: <20131105175919.GB13099-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131031015614.GA87793@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20131105175919.GB13099@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131105180509.GA78199@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 12:59:19PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >Very likely everytime the dhcp client for IPv4 gets an addres, it wipes >all the addresses on the interface. I think it's a bug. I was working before an update, so I'll wait to see if the bug is fixed. >Also why are you using ifconfig? ip addr and ip -6 addr are the modern >ways to check IP settings. ifconfig doesn't generally work well with >multiple IPs on an interface, and is just obsolete (and also uses /proc >parsing rather than netlink). Again this worked fine before. ifconfig output is more readable than ip. For active work, I would use ip. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 5 18:06:39 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 13:06:39 -0500 Subject: (C question) (s - out.s) + func(&out) -> ? In-Reply-To: References: <20131031035014.GA7888@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20131105180639.GC13099@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 11:40:20AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: William Park > > | Question for C expert... Given the following > > The order of operation is well-defined in C: operator precedence. > > That says nothing about the order of evaluation of operands, only > about how they are combined. > > Your code has a race condition and is undefined by the C standard. Functions calls are evaluated before addition/subtraction. That's in the standard. Since the function modifies the parameter, the value changes before the addition work is done. Relying on the order variables are read into registers in a given C statement is generally a bad idea. Just don't do it. Don't use and modify a value in the same statement either. The outcome is often undefined so that the compiler is free to do whatever is most efficient. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 5 20:33:30 2013 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 15:33:30 -0500 Subject: OT: DVD regions - still a thing? Message-ID: Hi folks, I'm involved in an men's chorus (http://www.northernlightschorus.com) that is planning to create a DVD of past performances, and I seem to remember that in the past movie studios would create DVDs that would only work in one region. Is that still an issue these days? Can we create a DVD that will work in all regions? Thanks for any feedback. Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 5 20:39:08 2013 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:39:08 -0500 Subject: OT: DVD regions - still a thing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5279576C.9080100@rogers.com> On 13-11-05 03:33 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm involved in an men's chorus (http://www.northernlightschorus.com) > that is planning to create a DVD of past performances, and I seem to > remember that in the past movie studios would create DVDs that would > only work in one region. Is that still an issue these days? Can we > create a DVD that will work in all regions? > > Thanks for any feedback. > > Alex > > Yes. Just create the DVD without adding any region restrictions. It takes extra effort to add restrictions. -- Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 6 01:34:22 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 20:34:22 -0500 Subject: (C question) (s - out.s) + func(&out) -> ? In-Reply-To: <20131105180639.GC13099-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131031035014.GA7888@node1.localdomain> <20131105180639.GC13099@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131106013422.GA2866@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 01:06:39PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Functions calls are evaluated before addition/subtraction. That's in > the standard. Since the function modifies the parameter, the value > changes before the addition work is done. Multiplication has higher precedence than addition. I'm not talking about that. It's just that gcc removed parenthesis. Eg. (a + b) + c gcc can rewrite it to a + (b + c) even though I explicitly said do "a+b" first. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 6 12:03:29 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 07:03:29 -0500 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: <20131105174253.GA13099-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <52738F16.2090908@gmail.com> <5273943D.5000207@rogers.com> <5273B537.1070601@gmail.com> <20131105174253.GA13099@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <527A3011.5060506@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I think the good old diesel generators started with compressed air that > could be started and synced to the grid in a few cycles of the power > are the really impressive ones. Less than a second response time to > demand, but most certainly not the most efficient or economical way to > generate power. > We used to have some "no break" power systems at work. These consisted of a motor turning an alternator and an 8 ton flywheel. There was also a diesel engine. When the power failed, a clutch connected the diesel to the flywheel, which started the diesel very quickly. The flywheel also kept the alternator turning to maintain power. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 6 15:46:19 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 10:46:19 -0500 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: <527A3011.5060506-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <52738F16.2090908@gmail.com> <5273943D.5000207@rogers.com> <5273B537.1070601@gmail.com> <20131105174253.GA13099@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <527A3011.5060506@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20131106154619.GA20752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 06, 2013 at 07:03:29AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > We used to have some "no break" power systems at work. These consisted > of a motor turning an alternator and an 8 ton flywheel. There was also > a diesel engine. When the power failed, a clutch connected the diesel > to the flywheel, which started the diesel very quickly. The flywheel > also kept the alternator turning to maintain power. I wonder what kind of loss a system like that had when it was not being used. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 6 17:47:38 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:47:38 -0500 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: <20131106154619.GA20752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <52738F16.2090908@gmail.com> <5273943D.5000207@rogers.com> <5273B537.1070601@gmail.com> <20131105174253.GA13099@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <527A3011.5060506@rogers.com> <20131106154619.GA20752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <527A80BA.9050606@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> We used to have some "no break" power systems at work. These consisted >> > of a motor turning an alternator and an 8 ton flywheel. There was also >> > a diesel engine. When the power failed, a clutch connected the diesel >> > to the flywheel, which started the diesel very quickly. The flywheel >> > also kept the alternator turning to maintain power. > I wonder what kind of loss a system like that had when it was not > being used. > Well, it lost time, as induction motors rotate at slightly under the power frequency (or fraction). This meant we had to modify some Data General computers that used the power line for the real time clock. We had a relay that switched that clock to the regular hydro when available and onto no break when needed. Beyond that, there's just be the typical motor/generator set losses. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 6 20:20:53 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 15:20:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: (C question) (s - out.s) + func(&out) -> ? In-Reply-To: <20131106013422.GA2866-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131031035014.GA7888@node1.localdomain> <20131105180639.GC13099@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131106013422.GA2866@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: | From: William Park | On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 01:06:39PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: | > Functions calls are evaluated before addition/subtraction. That's in | > the standard. Since the function modifies the parameter, the value | > changes before the addition work is done. Lennart isn't accurate here. For example, in f(a+3), the function call is evaluated after addition. | Multiplication has higher precedence than addition. I'm not talking | about that. It's just that gcc removed parenthesis. Eg. | (a + b) + c | gcc can rewrite it to | a + (b + c) | even though I explicitly said do "a+b" first. "do first" is not what we need to talk about. And that example isn't at all like the one you had problems with. The steps needed to evalutate an expression in math are simple: there are no side effects. Not so in C. (Oh, and ordinary math operations have associativity, commutativity and other properties that don't always carry over into C. But that is a different topic.) "(a + b) + c" has no obvious side effect, so that isn't an example of your original problem Let's go back to your original problem. s = (s - out.s) + func (&out); where 'out' is changed inside function 'func'. This one has obvious side effects, so we can get concrete about it. 1: (s - out.s) 2: func(&out) 3: s = (1) + (2) We know that 3 must be evaluated (computed) after 1 and 2. There is nothing to say the order of evaluation of 1 vs the evaluation of 2. In C: - 1 could be evaluated before 2 - 1 could be evaluated after 2 - 1 could be evaluated at the same time as 2 You, the programmer, just don't know which. Furthermore, when they are evaluated at the same time, there is NO promise of what happens. None. Like: the result could be a crash. Or worse: continuing with the state completely curdled. Those bizarre results are not normal on current hardware because it would take more work to produce them, not less. But as parallelism increases, there is more chance of getting surprising results. But it is easy to solve your problem. You gave an outline: Original code: char *s; struct { char *s; } out; char *func(); s = (s - out.s) + func (&out); Outline: What I want is - to calculate (s - out.s) first, then - add that difference to pointer returning from func(). Here, order is important, because func() changes 'out'. So do that: char *s; struct { char *s; } out; char *func(); { char *t = s - out.s; s = t + func (&out); } What you want is clearly and precisely exressed in this code. I consider it bad style to have side-effects within expressions that are not at the top level. It makes the code harder to understand. Your code is an illustrative example. But C makes it convenient. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 6 20:39:00 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 15:39:00 -0500 Subject: (C question) (s - out.s) + func(&out) -> ? In-Reply-To: References: <20131031035014.GA7888@node1.localdomain> <20131105180639.GC13099@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131106013422.GA2866@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20131106203900.GB20752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 06, 2013 at 03:20:53PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: William Park > > | On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 01:06:39PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > | > Functions calls are evaluated before addition/subtraction. That's in > | > the standard. Since the function modifies the parameter, the value > | > changes before the addition work is done. > > Lennart isn't accurate here. > > For example, in f(a+3), the function call is evaluated after addition. Of course, since you have to evaluate the argument to pass to the function. x = y + f(a+3); would have to evaluate a+3 first, then f(the result) then y + the result of the function. Now if you go do things like: x = y + f(y++); then you can really get in trouble. The compiler is not required to store the result of y++ into y, before referencing it for the other y. it just has to calculate the new value and pass it to the function and at some point when it is convinient, store it to y. > | Multiplication has higher precedence than addition. I'm not talking > | about that. It's just that gcc removed parenthesis. Eg. > | (a + b) + c > | gcc can rewrite it to > | a + (b + c) > | even though I explicitly said do "a+b" first. > > "do first" is not what we need to talk about. > > And that example isn't at all like the one you had problems with. > > The steps needed to evalutate an expression in math are simple: there > are no side effects. Not so in C. > > (Oh, and ordinary math operations have associativity, commutativity > and other properties that don't always carry over into C. But that is > a different topic.) > > "(a + b) + c" has no obvious side effect, so that isn't an example of > your original problem > > Let's go back to your original problem. > s = (s - out.s) + func (&out); > where 'out' is changed inside function 'func'. > This one has obvious side effects, so we can get concrete about it. > > 1: (s - out.s) > 2: func(&out) > 3: s = (1) + (2) > > We know that 3 must be evaluated (computed) after 1 and 2. > > There is nothing to say the order of evaluation of 1 vs the evaluation > of 2. > > In C: > - 1 could be evaluated before 2 > - 1 could be evaluated after 2 > - 1 could be evaluated at the same time as 2 > You, the programmer, just don't know which. > > Furthermore, when they are evaluated at the same time, there is NO > promise of what happens. None. Like: the result could be a crash. > Or worse: continuing with the state completely curdled. > > Those bizarre results are not normal on current hardware because it > would take more work to produce them, not less. But as parallelism > increases, there is more chance of getting surprising results. > > But it is easy to solve your problem. You gave an outline: > > Original code: > char *s; > struct { char *s; } out; > char *func(); > > s = (s - out.s) + func (&out); > > Outline: > What I want is > - to calculate (s - out.s) first, then > - add that difference to pointer returning from func(). > Here, order is important, because func() changes 'out'. > > So do that: > char *s; > struct { char *s; } out; > char *func(); > > { > char *t = s - out.s; > > s = t + func (&out); > } > > What you want is clearly and precisely exressed in this code. > > I consider it bad style to have side-effects within expressions that > are not at the top level. It makes the code harder to understand. > Your code is an illustrative example. But C makes it convenient. I agree with that. And people who think it runs faster if you put more stuff in one line with more complexity are simply wrong. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 7 12:52:21 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 07:52:21 -0500 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: <527A80BA.9050606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <52738F16.2090908@gmail.com> <5273943D.5000207@rogers.com> <5273B537.1070601@gmail.com> <20131105174253.GA13099@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <527A3011.5060506@rogers.com> <20131106154619.GA20752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <527A80BA.9050606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <527B8D05.7000903@gmail.com> On 13-11-06 12:47 PM, James Knott wrote: > > Well, it lost time, as induction motors rotate at slightly under the > power frequency (or fraction). This meant we had to modify some Data > General computers that used the power line for the real time clock. I keep having to remind myself that mains frequency makes a fairly decent clock. The only time that I noticed it at work is when it does something wrong. If you ever get the chance to tour the IESO's super-secret HQ in Oakville, they have their old Synchronome indicator clock on display. Synchronomes - two clocks with Invar pendulums, one kept in an evacuated vessel, signalling to the other - were the most accurate mechanical clocks available before atomic clocks came along. The Hydro used it to maintain grid frequency. They were stupendously expensive. Now you can get surplus atomic clocks (Rb, not Cs, but good enough) for < $100 ... cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 8 02:36:57 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 21:36:57 -0500 Subject: Stallman about surveillance In-Reply-To: <527B8D05.7000903-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52738F16.2090908@gmail.com> <5273943D.5000207@rogers.com> <5273B537.1070601@gmail.com> <20131105174253.GA13099@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <527A3011.5060506@rogers.com> <20131106154619.GA20752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <527A80BA.9050606@rogers.com> <527B8D05.7000903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <527C4E49.2060205@rogers.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > If you ever get the chance to tour the IESO's super-secret HQ in > Oakville Actually, it's in Mississauga, on the east side of Winston Churchill and yes, I have been in their a few times with work, but I didn't see that clock. Years ago, at work, we used clocks made by a company called Austron, which received the Loran C signals, to provide a stable, accurate clock for running a TDM telecommunications network. These days, all my computers use NTP and I also have a clock that receives WWVB -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 11 15:16:48 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:16:48 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu on the Raspberry PI Message-ID: Got word from Michael Kaulbach (one of the board members of the Toronto Free-Net) that there is a group that is looking for some financial help to bring Ubuntu to the Raspberry PI. Details to be seen here : www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu I am happy enough with Debian on the Raspberry PI, so I don't see myself contributing, but for the Ubuntu lovers in the group, go for it... Colin McGregor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From me-3ZSMZGRXU0K2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 12 14:39:37 2013 From: me-3ZSMZGRXU0K2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (staticsafe) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:39:37 -0500 Subject: Which init system for Debian? Message-ID: <52823DA9.9050506@staticsafe.ca> http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/572805/649e9b83e47ae5ec/ By Jonathan Corbet on November 5, 2013. -- staticsafe O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org Please don't top post. It is not logical. Please don't CC me! I'm subscribed to whatever list I just posted on. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 12 14:59:23 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:59:23 -0500 Subject: Which init system for Debian? In-Reply-To: <52823DA9.9050506-3ZSMZGRXU0K2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <52823DA9.9050506@staticsafe.ca> Message-ID: <20131112145923.GA100360@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> "One contributing factor to this urgency is the perception that the GNOME desktop environment is developing dependencies on systemd that will make it harder to run GNOME under any other init system." The GNOME team are still working hard to polarize the community. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 12 15:15:49 2013 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:15:49 -0500 Subject: Which init system for Debian? In-Reply-To: <20131112145923.GA100360-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <52823DA9.9050506@staticsafe.ca> <20131112145923.GA100360@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > The GNOME team are still working hard to polarize the community. Citation? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 12 15:23:41 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:23:41 -0500 Subject: Which init system for Debian? In-Reply-To: References: <52823DA9.9050506@staticsafe.ca> <20131112145923.GA100360@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20131112152341.GA103409@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:15:49AM -0500, Michael Hill wrote: >On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > >> The GNOME team are still working hard to polarize the community. > >Citation? Is seems silly to for a desktop env to depend on a specific init system. Further: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Red-Hat-confirms-GNOME-Classic-Mode-for-RHEL-7-1887469.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversy_over_GNOME_3 -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 12 15:32:44 2013 From: williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Weaver) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:32:44 -0500 Subject: Which init system for Debian? In-Reply-To: <20131112152341.GA103409-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <52823DA9.9050506@staticsafe.ca> <20131112145923.GA100360@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20131112152341.GA103409@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: >From the systemd wiki, In the interest of enhancing the interoperability between systemd and GNOME, systemd coauthor Lennart Poettering askedthe GNOME Project to consider making systemd an external dependency[*clarify *] of GNOME 3.2.[25] In November 2012, the GNOME Project concluded that basic GNOME functionality should not rely on systemd.[26] If this information is out of date can someone provide a source so that wikipedia can be updated. Will Weaver On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:15:49AM -0500, Michael Hill wrote: > >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Neil Watson >> wrote: >> >> The GNOME team are still working hard to polarize the community. >>> >> >> Citation? >> > > Is seems silly to for a desktop env to depend on a specific init system. > Further: > > http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Red-Hat-confirms- > GNOME-Classic-Mode-for-RHEL-7-1887469.html > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversy_over_GNOME_3 > > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 12 15:34:38 2013 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:34:38 -0500 Subject: Which init system for Debian? In-Reply-To: <20131112152341.GA103409-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <52823DA9.9050506@staticsafe.ca> <20131112145923.GA100360@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20131112152341.GA103409@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > Is seems silly to for a desktop env to depend on a specific init system. It helps to read both sides of a discussion: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/10/threads.html https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd ...and not contribute to the problem by spreading misinformation. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/10/msg00526.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 12 16:15:24 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 11:15:24 -0500 Subject: Which init system for Debian? In-Reply-To: References: <52823DA9.9050506@staticsafe.ca> <20131112145923.GA100360@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20131112152341.GA103409@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20131112161524.GC20752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:32:44AM -0500, William Weaver wrote: > From the systemd wiki, > > In the interest of enhancing the interoperability between systemd and > GNOME, > systemd coauthor Lennart Poettering askedthe GNOME > Project to > consider making systemd an external dependency[*clarify > *] of GNOME > 3.2.[25] In > November 2012, the GNOME Project concluded that basic GNOME functionality > should not rely on > systemd.[26] > > If this information is out of date can someone provide a source so that > wikipedia can be updated. It sounds like gdm requires logind which is provided by systemd sources. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 12 16:46:13 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 11:46:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Dinner tonight? [was Re: Notices and Upcoming Meetings] In-Reply-To: <527A7A38.8010501-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <527A7A38.8010501@ss.org> Message-ID: | From: Scott Sullivan | To: tlug-announce-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 12:19:52 -0500 | Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: Notices and Upcoming Meetings | Your Dinner Plans are Your Own | ------------------------------ | | For a long time GTALUG has had a advertised pre-meeting meal where folks can | be social. With the move to Ryerson there have been many differing opinions as | what venue best serves this tradition. Ultimately, it was decided to no longer | endorse a single venue as the preferred venue. Please chat among yourselves | and eat where you are happiest, we'll see you all at the meeting! I haven't noticed any discussion about this. Thanks Scott, Collin, and others for trying to solve the dinner-near-Ryerson problem. I think that dinner-before-TLUG convention has been great. I don't know how it started, but I value it. I'd like to continue it. I'm surprised that nobody (including me) has brought up a stop-gap for tonight. I suggest that for tonight we continue last month's venue. It's too late to figure out something new. Quoting from a previous month: 6:00 pm - There is a get together of GTALUGers at Spring Roll Go, located at 120 Church Street (just south of Richmond). http://goo.gl/maps/JT6Od Who's interested? I'd like to know whether to bother showing up so I'd like to know who's intending to attend. So: I'm in. But if nobody replies, I might back out. PS: I ate at the Salad King last night. My throat is sore from trying to talk over the noise. So that remains "out" as far as I'm concerned. PPS: anyone tried ? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 12 16:54:20 2013 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 11:54:20 -0500 Subject: Dinner tonight? [was Re: Notices and Upcoming Meetings] In-Reply-To: References: <527A7A38.8010501@ss.org> Message-ID: At 6pm at least Bill Thanis and I are going to eat Salad King (sorry Hugh). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 12 17:40:42 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:40:42 -0500 Subject: Dinner tonight? [was Re: Notices and Upcoming Meetings] In-Reply-To: References: <527A7A38.8010501@ss.org> Message-ID: I'm not keen on either Salad King (for the noise reasons already mentioned) or Spring Roll Go (not out of particular dislike, but I'd rather see another option, and trying something I haven't seen before seems a better way to learn about possible "keepers"...) I'm game to try some of the items from Myles' GIST listing The one I'm intending to try is Donair Kebab House: Donair Kebab House Turkish 391 Yonge Street Toronto, ON M5B 1S1 http://www.yelp.ca/biz/donair-kebab-house-toronto -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 12 20:11:37 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:11:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Dinner tonight? [was Re: Notices and Upcoming Meetings] In-Reply-To: References: <527A7A38.8010501@ss.org> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | So: I'm in. But if nobody replies, I might back out. Nobody has said they are going to Spring Rolls, so I'm not. | From: Christopher Browne | The one I'm intending to try is Donair Kebab House: | | Donair Kebab House Turkish | 391 Yonge Street | Toronto, ON M5B 1S1 See you there. 18:00. Others worth considering in future: http://www.blogto.com/restaurants/guu-izakaya Somewhat quirky Japanese food. No reservations. At one point there were lineups. Unknown capacity. Indian food. Unknown quality or capacity. Ethiopian food. Unknown quality or capacity. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 13 18:49:41 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 13:49:41 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu on the Raspberry PI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Speaking of the Pi, there is a meetup tomorrow night of the Raspberry Pi user group, this time discussing motors and automation using the Pi http://www.meetup.com/Raspberry-Pi/events/146084362/?rv=md1 Seneca College @ York University. 196 express bus from Downsview station stops at the door. On 11 November 2013 10:16, Colin McGregor wrote: > Got word from Michael Kaulbach (one of the board members of the Toronto > Free-Net) that there is a group that is looking for some financial help > to bring Ubuntu to the Raspberry PI. Details to be seen here : > > www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu > > I am happy enough with Debian on the Raspberry PI, so I don't see myself > contributing, but for the Ubuntu lovers in the group, go for it... > > > Colin McGregor > > -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 14 01:44:41 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 20:44:41 -0500 Subject: Which init system for Debian? In-Reply-To: <20131112152341.GA103409-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <52823DA9.9050506@staticsafe.ca> <20131112145923.GA100360@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20131112152341.GA103409@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20131114014441.GA2173@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:23:41AM -0500, Neil Watson wrote > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:15:49AM -0500, Michael Hill wrote: > >On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > > > >> The GNOME team are still working hard to polarize the community. > > > >Citation? > > Is seems silly to for a desktop env to depend on a specific init system. > Further: > > http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Red-Hat-confirms-GNOME-Classic-Mode-for-RHEL-7-1887469.html > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversy_over_GNOME_3 GNOME has always imitated Windows. Now it's imitating the routine of Embrace+Extend+Extinguish. I want GNU/Linu-x not GNOME/Lenna-x. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 15 16:19:59 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:19:59 -0500 Subject: An interesting "war story" about MIPS + Mono Message-ID: Those that are interested in the strangeness of machine language instructions will find this very interesting. Entertainingly, this is a long standing problem that was fixed very recently, once a "defect" was determined to be in some of the Chinese-made MIPS CPUs. http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/545/ -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 15 17:36:45 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:36:45 -0500 Subject: An interesting "war story" about MIPS + Mono In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52865BAD.4030403@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > Those that are interested in the strangeness of machine language > instructions will find this very interesting. Entertainingly, this is > a long standing problem that was fixed very recently, once a "defect" > was determined to be in some of the Chinese-made MIPS CPUs. > > http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/545/ I've never worked with MIPS, but I used to work a lot with Data General Nova & Eclipse machine language. It had some curious instructions. I even worked down at the microcode level on the Eclipes, which can be really *FUN*. :-) I also used to work a lot with the Intel 8080 machine code on my Imsai 8080 and also some exposure to 6502 & 6809 in my courses at Ryerson. It can be an interesting area to work in, where you have direct control over the CPU. BTW, I also found a bug in the National Semiconductor 8250 UART, which was originally used in the PC. I reported it to them, but I have no idea if they fixed it, as I developed a work around. This was on an 8 port serial port board I designed & built for my Imsai. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 16 20:18:59 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 15:18:59 -0500 Subject: URL 1 year ago? Message-ID: <20131116201859.GA19155@node1.localdomain> Hi, Do you know how to find out what URL looked like 1 year ago? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 16 20:26:16 2013 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 15:26:16 -0500 Subject: URL 1 year ago? In-Reply-To: <20131116201859.GA19155-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131116201859.GA19155@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <5287D4E8.2040103@alteeve.ca> On 16/11/13 15:18, William Park wrote: > Hi, > > Do you know how to find out what URL looked like 1 year ago? > http://archive.org/web/ Type in the URL you're interested in and select the date you want to see what it looked like on. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 16 20:27:41 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:27:41 -0200 Subject: URL 1 year ago? In-Reply-To: <20131116201859.GA19155-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131116201859.GA19155@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: Try web.archive.org, they have lots of pages since the dawn of the Web. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 16 20:28:42 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 15:28:42 -0500 Subject: URL 1 year ago? In-Reply-To: <20131116201859.GA19155-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131116201859.GA19155@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: > > Do you know how to find out what URL looked like 1 year ago? > -- > William A tad ambiguous question, you sure it was intended for this mailing list? William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 16 21:01:07 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 16:01:07 -0500 Subject: URL 1 year ago? In-Reply-To: References: <20131116201859.GA19155@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <5287DD13.7060603@rogers.com> Mauro Souza wrote: > > Try web.archive.org , they have lots of pages > since the dawn of the Web. > http://hmpg.net/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 16 23:41:44 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 00:41:44 +0100 Subject: URL 1 year ago? In-Reply-To: References: <20131116201859.GA19155@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <528802B8.7030102@gmail.com> On 16/11/13 21:27, Mauro Souza wrote: > > Try web.archive.org , they have lots of pages > since the dawn of the Web. > web.archive.org is a b**it I owned and managed an internet domain iyp.org for around 10 years. Try to see what archive.org shows about it. No, I did not do that robots.txt. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 17 03:40:28 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 22:40:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: URL 1 year ago? In-Reply-To: <5287D4E8.2040103-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20131116201859.GA19155@node1.localdomain> <5287D4E8.2040103@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: | From: Digimer | http://archive.org/web/ | | Type in the URL you're interested in and select the date you want to see | what it looked like on. Unless what you are looking for is a UK Conservaive Party speach -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 17 06:12:04 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 01:12:04 -0500 Subject: URL 1 year ago? In-Reply-To: <5287D4E8.2040103-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20131116201859.GA19155@node1.localdomain> <5287D4E8.2040103@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <20131117061204.GA23326@node1.localdomain> On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 03:26:16PM -0500, Digimer wrote: > On 16/11/13 15:18, William Park wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Do you know how to find out what URL looked like 1 year ago? > > > > http://archive.org/web/ > > Type in the URL you're interested in and select the date you want to see > what it looked like on. Thanks. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 20 06:19:03 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 01:19:03 -0500 Subject: [sw-4376dFB96U4@public.gmane.org: [kwlug-disc] Free to Good Home(s): Classic Computing Gear] Message-ID: <20131120061903.GA6411@node1.localdomain> This just showed up in KWLUG mailing list. Some of you might be interested... -- William ----- Forwarded message from Stephen Worotynec ----- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 22:19:09 -0500 From: Stephen Worotynec Subject: [kwlug-disc] Free to Good Home(s): Classic Computing Gear To: KW Linux UserGroup Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, due to a relocation for work, I have a need/wish to clear out various classic computing gear. This is all located near Victoria/King, on the No. 4 bus line. Some items are heavy. Exceedingly brief descriptions here. Please email me for more information about specific items. All the computers were working when last turned on. Stephen 1. SGI Indigo2 O2 Fuel Origin 300 (2U dual proc rackmount) IRIX disc set 2. Sun Sunblade 100/150s - 2 or 3 IPX (This is a classic SUN "lunchbox" workstation. I am the second owner, purchased it in 1998.) Ultra 60 Ultra 2 Sunblade 1500 Tatung sparc clone Solaris media galore, Solaris 10 on CD back to SunOS on tape. 3. HP Two HP C8000s- these each have two smoking fast 1.0GHz PA-RISC processors. HP-UX media 5. DEC VAXstation 4000/60 with non-matching external full height 1GB drive LK501 keyboard VT420 DECLaser 1152 - this has inputs galore, including MMJ. Original manual also. And if I can find them - both VMS and OpenVMS media. 6. Doodads AUI-10BaseT transceivers MMJ-Serial adapters SCSI cables, adapters, terminators SCSI CD-ROMS, tape drives 7. Cisco 857W ADSL wireless router. I used it for several years, but may be bad or require cisco-fu. 2900something switch, some bad ports 1605 router 7. Even a PC and a Mac IBM server somethingSeries 1U - can get details Mac Classic II - original owner - still working 25+ years later. Takes 5 minutes or so to boot (I may be exaggerating). _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing list kwlug-disc-BDyrTanuHcXYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org ----- End forwarded message ----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 20 10:18:30 2013 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 10:18:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: pluto & ipsec gpl violations; D.H.Redelmeier + Henry Spencer Message-ID: I have been working on taking apart the gpl violation mountain which is one of these balky little mips based dsl+wifi soho router boxes to fix a bug, which I succeeded to do. Inside I found an unadvertised ipsec tunnelling facility which seems to be activated implicitly when a static ip is used. These boxes are full of back doors which are zero day exploits waiting to happen, usually on the side of the powers that be to keep us "safer", unadvertised "features" and hacked binaries. They do not even bother removing the gpl message from scripts. I found the 2 people's names in the ipsec scripts on this box. I am curious what you people think of your gpl licensed (it says so!) scripts and other code ending up in strange places with no attribution, no remuneration, no apology, and no recourse?! Anyway, all, you probably would like to see this if you haven't already: http://www.binaryanalysis.org/en/content/show/documentation Read the docs, sneak up on your trusty little dsl box and run the software against its firmware. nmap -T4 -A also works as a first foot in the door measure. I am really curious who here, if any (!), having a normal soho dsl or cable box, is NOT using some gpl busting busybox with no source. I am not even counting legit openwrt etc. users, regardless what that is installed on. I am somewhat miffed by the hypocrysy of the whole broadband internet business which seems to exist mostly due to these boxes which are truly *everyhwere* and even undersell an arduino with ease. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 20 13:10:34 2013 From: northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 08:10:34 -0500 Subject: [sw-4376dFB96U4@public.gmane.org: [kwlug-disc] Free to Good Home(s): Classic Computing Gear] In-Reply-To: <20131120061903.GA6411-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131120061903.GA6411@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: So sad when a museum has to close its door and give away its stuff. :) On 11/20/13, William Park wrote: > This just showed up in KWLUG mailing list. Some of you might be > interested... > -- > William > > > ----- Forwarded message from Stephen Worotynec ----- > > Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 22:19:09 -0500 > From: Stephen Worotynec > Subject: [kwlug-disc] Free to Good Home(s): Classic Computing Gear > To: KW Linux UserGroup > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi all, due to a relocation for work, I have a need/wish to clear out > various classic computing gear. > > This is all located near Victoria/King, on the No. 4 bus line. Some items > are heavy. > > Exceedingly brief descriptions here. Please email me for more information > about specific items. All the computers were working when last turned on. > > Stephen > > > 1. SGI > Indigo2 > O2 > Fuel > Origin 300 (2U dual proc rackmount) > IRIX disc set > > 2. Sun > Sunblade 100/150s - 2 or 3 > IPX (This is a classic SUN "lunchbox" workstation. I am the second owner, > purchased it in 1998.) > Ultra 60 > Ultra 2 > Sunblade 1500 > Tatung sparc clone > Solaris media galore, Solaris 10 on CD back to SunOS on tape. > > 3. HP > Two HP C8000s- these each have two smoking fast 1.0GHz PA-RISC processors. > HP-UX media > > 5. DEC > VAXstation 4000/60 with non-matching external full height 1GB drive > LK501 keyboard > VT420 > DECLaser 1152 - this has inputs galore, including MMJ. Original manual > also. > And if I can find them - both VMS and OpenVMS media. > > 6. Doodads > AUI-10BaseT transceivers > MMJ-Serial adapters > SCSI cables, adapters, terminators > SCSI CD-ROMS, tape drives > > 7. Cisco > 857W ADSL wireless router. I used it for several years, but may be bad or > require cisco-fu. > 2900something switch, some bad ports > 1605 router > > 7. Even a PC and a Mac > IBM server somethingSeries 1U - can get details > Mac Classic II - original owner - still working 25+ years later. Takes 5 > minutes or so to boot (I may be exaggerating). > > > > > _______________________________________________ > kwlug-disc mailing list > kwlug-disc-BDyrTanuHcXYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Sent from my mobile device -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 21 06:22:25 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 01:22:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: pluto & ipsec gpl violations; D.H.Redelmeier + Henry Spencer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Peter | I have been working on taking apart the gpl violation mountain which is one | of these balky little mips based dsl+wifi soho router boxes to fix a bug, | which I succeeded to do. Inside I found an unadvertised ipsec tunnelling | facility which seems to be activated implicitly when a static ip is used. Which box? Where is it sold? | I am curious what you people think of your gpl licensed (it says so!) | scripts and other code ending up in strange places with no attribution, no | remuneration, no apology, and no recourse?! I don't need attribution (beyond copyright notice) or remuneration or apology IFF the GPL license is followed. Of course those would be nice. I do care about the GPL. | I am really curious who here, if any (!), having a normal | soho dsl or cable box, is NOT using some gpl busting busybox with no source. | I am not even counting legit openwrt etc. users, regardless what that is | installed on. There is a project to Busybox re-implemented without GPLed code. | I am somewhat miffed by the hypocrysy of the whole broadband internet | business which seems to exist mostly due to these boxes which are truly | *everyhwere* and even undersell an arduino with ease. Which hypocrisy? I think that there might be several. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 21 15:06:51 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 10:06:51 -0500 Subject: resizing a ext3 partition Message-ID: I want to resize my root partition. This is on a vm so I have the file and can play with it. as I understand it I want to use fdisk to delete then create the partition. It currently starts at 1, but fdisk insists on using 2048 as the end. Is there a way to simply edit the end in the partition table ? Dave Cramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 21 15:26:16 2013 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 10:26:16 -0500 Subject: resizing a ext3 partition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I want to resize my root partition. This is on a vm so I have the file and > can play with it. > > as I understand it I want to use fdisk to delete then create the partition. > > It currently starts at 1, but fdisk insists on using 2048 as the end. Is > there a way to simply edit the end in the partition table ? > > Dave Cramer Have you looked into using resize2fs? I think it might be as easy as shutting down, changing the vm disk size, boot up and run the resize. -jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 21 15:28:12 2013 From: northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 10:28:12 -0500 Subject: resizing a ext3 partition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did you rescan the scsi bus? http://rescan-scsi-bus.sh Does the os see the new disk size? ( Dmesg) When it does, then you can fdisk. Also consider: 1. Partprobe to reread the partition table. And 2. In the future consider not using a partition table at all. So where before you might allocate a whole disk as /dev/sdb1 , you instead use simply /dev/sdb . This removes one "moving part": the partition table. It worked really well for us. Of course it only applies when you have a single partition. David On 11/21/13, Dave Cramer wrote: > I want to resize my root partition. This is on a vm so I have the file and > can play with it. > > as I understand it I want to use fdisk to delete then create the partition. > > It currently starts at 1, but fdisk insists on using 2048 as the end. Is > there a way to simply edit the end in the partition table ? > > Dave Cramer > -- Sent from my mobile device -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 21 15:28:16 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 10:28:16 -0500 Subject: resizing a ext3 partition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, the vm disk has multiple partitions in it, I moved them out of the way so that partition 1 now has room, but I need to expand it before resize2fs will work on it. Dave Cramer On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Jason Shaw wrote: > On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Dave Cramer > wrote: > > I want to resize my root partition. This is on a vm so I have the file > and > > can play with it. > > > > as I understand it I want to use fdisk to delete then create the > partition. > > > > It currently starts at 1, but fdisk insists on using 2048 as the end. Is > > there a way to simply edit the end in the partition table ? > > > > Dave Cramer > > Have you looked into using resize2fs? I think it might be as easy as > shutting down, changing the vm disk size, boot up and run the resize. > > -jason > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 21 20:27:50 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 15:27:50 -0500 Subject: resizing a ext3 partition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131121202750.GA20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:06:51AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > I want to resize my root partition. This is on a vm so I have the file and > can play with it. > > as I understand it I want to use fdisk to delete then create the partition. > > It currently starts at 1, but fdisk insists on using 2048 as the end. Is > there a way to simply edit the end in the partition table ? I would use gparted. Changes the partition table and filesystems all at the same time for you. If you enable partition support on loop mount, then you can do this: modprobe -r loop (Unload loop module) modprobe loop max_part=16 (Load loop module with partition support) losetup /dev/loop0 diskimagefile (connect loop0 to image file, which should then show /dev/loop0p1, etc as partitions on that disk image) gparted /dev/loop0 (Use gparted to change things) losetup -d /dev/loop0 (disconnect from loop0) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 21 22:05:30 2013 From: northdot9-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 17:05:30 -0500 Subject: resizing a ext3 partition In-Reply-To: <20131121202750.GA20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131121202750.GA20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: what the!!! I guess I'm in the minority to suggest to a bunch of techs to have LESS moving parts rather than more. David On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:06:51AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > > I want to resize my root partition. This is on a vm so I have the file > and > > can play with it. > > > > as I understand it I want to use fdisk to delete then create the > partition. > > > > It currently starts at 1, but fdisk insists on using 2048 as the end. Is > > there a way to simply edit the end in the partition table ? > > I would use gparted. > > Changes the partition table and filesystems all at the same time for you. > > If you enable partition support on loop mount, then you can do this: > > modprobe -r loop (Unload loop module) > modprobe loop max_part=16 (Load loop module with partition support) > losetup /dev/loop0 diskimagefile (connect loop0 to image file, which > should then show /dev/loop0p1, etc as partitions on that disk image) > gparted /dev/loop0 (Use gparted to change things) > losetup -d /dev/loop0 (disconnect from loop0) > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 21 22:34:26 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 17:34:26 -0500 Subject: resizing a ext3 partition In-Reply-To: References: <20131121202750.GA20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131121223426.GB20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 05:05:30PM -0500, David Thornton wrote: > what the!!! > > I guess I'm in the minority to suggest to a bunch of techs to have LESS > moving parts rather than more. I have done resize2fs, fdisk, resize2fs before, and getting it just right is tricky. parted does all the calculations for me, so why bother doing it myself anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 21 23:12:47 2013 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 09:12:47 +1000 (EST) Subject: resizing a ext3 partition In-Reply-To: References: <20131121202750.GA20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Nov 2013, David Thornton wrote: > what the!!! > > I guess I'm in the minority to suggest to a bunch of techs to have LESS > moving parts rather than more. I'm very much in favour of minimising complexity. If you can't minimise complexity then try to move it to where it can do the least harm. Long ago I concluded that making a system that was no more complex than it needed to be was much harder than just making a system. Fortunately an 80/20 or 90/10 rule generally applies - you can often get rid of 80% of the complexity in 20% of the time. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.pracops.com Director, Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Information behaves like a gas -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 21 23:28:20 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 18:28:20 -0500 Subject: resizing a ext3 partition In-Reply-To: <20131121223426.GB20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131121202750.GA20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131121223426.GB20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I tried parted, and it is complaining about incompatible features. At this point I just created another partition in the space. Dave Cramer On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 05:05:30PM -0500, David Thornton wrote: > > what the!!! > > > > I guess I'm in the minority to suggest to a bunch of techs to have LESS > > moving parts rather than more. > > I have done resize2fs, fdisk, resize2fs before, and getting it just right > is tricky. parted does all the calculations for me, so why bother doing > it myself anymore. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 22 06:07:07 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:07:07 -0500 Subject: resizing a ext3 partition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131122060707.GA8928@node1.localdomain> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:06:51AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > I want to resize my root partition. This is on a vm so I have the file and > can play with it. > > as I understand it I want to use fdisk to delete then create the partition. > > It currently starts at 1, but fdisk insists on using 2048 as the end. Is > there a way to simply edit the end in the partition table ? By "the end", you mean "the beginning", no? fdisk starts from 2048 (1M/512k) from the beginning, and it won't accept less than that. Try another program (ie. sfdisk, cfdisk). Maybe it accepts 1 as the beginning. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 22 12:01:43 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 07:01:43 -0500 Subject: resizing a ext3 partition In-Reply-To: <20131122060707.GA8928-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131122060707.GA8928@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 1:07 AM, William Park wrote: > On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:06:51AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > > I want to resize my root partition. This is on a vm so I have the file > and > > can play with it. > > > > as I understand it I want to use fdisk to delete then create the > partition. > > > > It currently starts at 1, but fdisk insists on using 2048 as the end. Is > > there a way to simply edit the end in the partition table ? > > By "the end", you mean "the beginning", no? fdisk starts from 2048 > (1M/512k) from the beginning, and it won't accept less than that. Try > another program (ie. sfdisk, cfdisk). Maybe it accepts 1 as the > beginning. > -- > Yes, you are correct I meant the beginning!, Thx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 25 12:39:25 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:39:25 -0500 Subject: The official Dilbert website with Scott Adams' color comic strips, animation, mashups and more! Message-ID: <529344FD.5070703@rogers.com> Haven't we been here before? ;-) http://dilbert.com/2013-11-25/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 25 14:51:12 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 09:51:12 -0500 Subject: resizing a ext3 partition In-Reply-To: References: <20131122060707.GA8928@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 1:07 AM, William Park wrote: > >> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:06:51AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >> > I want to resize my root partition. This is on a vm so I have the file >> and >> > can play with it. >> > >> > as I understand it I want to use fdisk to delete then create the >> partition. >> > >> > It currently starts at 1, but fdisk insists on using 2048 as the end. Is >> > there a way to simply edit the end in the partition table ? >> >> By "the end", you mean "the beginning", no? fdisk starts from 2048 >> (1M/512k) from the beginning, and it won't accept less than that. Try >> another program (ie. sfdisk, cfdisk). Maybe it accepts 1 as the >> beginning. >> -- >> > > Yes, you are correct I meant the beginning!, Thx > cfdisk worked fine. Thanks for the heads up. I've moved all of the partitions around and successfully resized them -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 25 18:40:19 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:40:19 -0500 Subject: Your visual how-to guide for SELinux policy enforcement | opensource.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Thought it would interest some of us here. Nothing new just a basic into to selinux. And apparently selinux is 10 years now. http://opensource.com/business/13/11/selinux-policy-guide Time do move fast William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 15:09:32 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 10:09:32 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey y'all, Friend is infected with this bastard Trojan called Zero Access. The usual crappy antivirus tools have only managed to screw up his Windows install. Can anyone recommend a Linux boot disc or other tool that can help with this? I realize this is only tangential to Linux topic but he is really desperate and I know nothing about Windows :-) Thanks! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 15:14:35 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 10:14:35 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131126151435.GA73687@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Symantec has a removal tool. http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2011-071314-0410-99&tabid=3 I would be very suspicious of that host even after successful remove. Consider a reinstall for complete safety. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 15:36:22 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 10:36:22 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:09:32AM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > Hey y'all, > > Friend is infected with this bastard Trojan called Zero Access. > > The usual crappy antivirus tools have only managed to screw up his Windows > install. > > Can anyone recommend a Linux boot disc or other tool that can help with > this? I realize this is only tangential to Linux topic but he is really > desperate and I know nothing about Windows :-) Would something like the Kapersky rescue CD help? http://support.kaspersky.com/4162 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 16:05:22 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:05:22 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: <20131126153622.GC20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: This may help: http://malwaretips.com/blogs/trojan-zeroaccess-removal/ I would use something like knopiix or even a ubuntu live cd and boot your friends system, mount the windows partition, make a full back-up of all important data then do what Neil advised which is a full re-install after a low-level format. That way one is safe. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:09:32AM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > > Hey y'all, > > > > Friend is infected with this bastard Trojan called Zero Access. > > > > The usual crappy antivirus tools have only managed to screw up his > Windows > > install. > > > > Can anyone recommend a Linux boot disc or other tool that can help with > > this? I realize this is only tangential to Linux topic but he is really > > desperate and I know nothing about Windows :-) > > Would something like the Kapersky rescue CD help? > > http://support.kaspersky.com/4162 > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 16:31:26 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:31:26 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131126163126.GD20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:05:22AM -0500, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > This may help: http://malwaretips.com/blogs/trojan-zeroaccess-removal/ > > I would use something like knopiix or even a ubuntu live cd and boot your > friends system, mount the windows partition, make a full back-up of all > important data then do what Neil advised which is a full re-install after a > low-level format. That way one is safe. No one does low level formats anymore. That stopped being a sensible concept when IDE disks came out and replaced ESDI. A low level format controls where the sectors are placed on the disk. For ESDI disks, you could get better performance from the disk if you low level formated it and set the sector interleaving to match the performance of your machine. So if you machine was only fast enough to process one sector for every 3 the disk could read, you would set the interleaving to 3 so the disk would store the sectors physically in the order: 0, 6, 12, 1, 7, 13, 2, 8, 14, 3, 9, 15, 4, 10, 16, 5, 11. This way, the head would just be coming to the next sector when the CPU was ready to receiver it. With an interleave of 1, the CPU would have had to wait for the disk to rotate all the way around again to the next sector before reading it. Norton utilities used to have a tool in DOS that would measure the best interleave and then rewrite the disk with the proper interleave by swapping sectors around. It took hours, but gave much better disk performance in the case of old 8088 and even 286 machines. Never mind what a lot of websites say, overwriting a disk with 0s, is NOT a low level format. Modern disks do not always have 17 sectors per track, and they do not have interleave options. Disks are way too slow to keep up with modern machines so the concept makes no sense anymore. Surprisingly wikipedia does have it right. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 17:10:31 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 12:10:31 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: <20131126153622.GC20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <5294D607.90104@utoronto.ca> On 26/11/13 10:36 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Can anyone recommend a Linux boot disc or other tool that can help with >> this? I realize this is only tangential to Linux topic but he is really >> desperate and I know nothing about Windows :-) > > Would something like the Kapersky rescue CD help? > > http://support.kaspersky.com/4162 Trinity rescue CD. Its last release is 2011, but I think it will be fine since it downloads virus definition files into memory. It is designed specifically for this use. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 17:47:08 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 12:47:08 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: <20131126163126.GD20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126163126.GD20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > > > I would use something like knopiix or even a ubuntu live cd and boot your > > friends system, mount the windows partition, make a full back-up of all > > important data then do what Neil advised which is a full re-install > after a > > low-level format. That way one is safe. > > No one does low level formats anymore. That stopped being a sensible > concept when IDE disks came out and replaced ESDI. > *Agreed fully but I was thinking since this trojan supposedly installs a root-kit the best thing would be to wipe the disk completely and in the good old dos days it was as simple as fdisk /mbr which was undocumented back then but did the job and well. * > A low level format controls where the sectors are placed on the disk. > For ESDI disks, you could get better performance from the disk if you low > level formated it and set the sector interleaving to match the performance > of your machine. So if you machine was only fast enough to process one > sector for every 3 the disk could read, you would set the interleaving > to 3 so the disk would store the sectors physically in the order: 0, 6, > 12, 1, 7, 13, 2, 8, 14, 3, 9, 15, 4, 10, 16, 5, 11. > *True !* > > This way, the head would just be coming to the next sector when the CPU > was ready to receiver it. With an interleave of 1, the CPU would have > had to wait for the disk to rotate all the way around again to the next > sector before reading it. > > Norton utilities used to have a tool in DOS that would measure the > best interleave and then rewrite the disk with the proper interleave > by swapping sectors around. It took hours, but gave much better disk > performance in the case of old 8088 and even 286 machines. > > *True again..* *!* Never mind what a lot of websites say, overwriting a disk with 0s, > is NOT a low level format. > *I did not mean writing 0's when I said a LLF what I meant was a true LLF where the disk is completely wiped and *reinitialized *to factory state :-)* > > > Modern disks do not always have 17 sectors per > track, and they do not have interleave options. Disks are way too slow > to keep up with modern machines so the concept makes no sense anymore. > Surprisingly wikipedia does have it right. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 18:18:55 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:18:55 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126163126.GD20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131126181855.GE20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 12:47:08PM -0500, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > *Agreed fully but I was thinking since this trojan supposedly installs a > root-kit the best thing would be to wipe the disk completely and in the > good old dos days it was as simple as fdisk /mbr which was undocumented > back then but did the job and well. * Which was a simple overwrite of sector 0 (not including the partition table part). > *I did not mean writing 0's when I said a LLF what I meant was a true LLF > where the disk is completely wiped and *reinitialized *to factory state > :-)* Reinitialized is NOT a low level format. Also doing even that is complete overkill. Simply overwriting the disk with zeroes is plenty, and even that is overkill. Writing a new filesystem and partition table would be enough to wipe any link to any software on the disk. And yes fdisk /mbr used to overwrite the boot sector with a default loader and hence would wipe out any boot sector virus present there. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 18:27:08 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:27:08 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: <20131126181855.GE20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126163126.GD20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126181855.GE20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > Reinitialized is NOT a low level format. Also doing even that is > complete overkill. Simply overwriting the disk with zeroes is plenty, > and even that is overkill. Writing a new filesystem and partition table > would be enough to wipe any link to any software on the disk. > Overkill I can live with but if this root-kit trojan has a mechanism that actually goes and resides in the BIOS then we are right royally screwed ? And wiping the disk is not going to help ? In that case flashing the bios and in extreme cases actually pulling out and puting the bios chip back is the only solution ? So YES agreed it is overkill but liek I said better to be safe than sorry with no back up of countless hours of data. ( Yes I had to do this long years ago :-) > > And yes fdisk /mbr used to overwrite the boot sector with a default > loader and hence would wipe out any boot sector virus present there. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 18:35:47 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:35:47 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126163126.GD20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126181855.GE20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <5294EA03.9050800@utoronto.ca> On 26/11/13 01:27 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: >> Reinitialized is NOT a low level format. Also doing even that is >> complete overkill. Simply overwriting the disk with zeroes is plenty, >> and even that is overkill. Writing a new filesystem and partition table >> would be enough to wipe any link to any software on the disk. >> > > Overkill I can live with but if this root-kit trojan has a mechanism that > actually goes and resides in the BIOS then we are right royally screwed ? > And wiping the disk is not going to help ? In that case flashing the bios > and in extreme cases actually pulling out and puting the bios chip back is > the only solution ? So YES agreed it is overkill but liek I said better to > be safe than sorry with no back up of countless hours of data. ( Yes I had > to do this long years ago :-) But Zero Access trojan does not affect the BIOS: https://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2011-071314-0410-99 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 18:37:04 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:37:04 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126163126.GD20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126181855.GE20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131126183704.GF20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 01:27:08PM -0500, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > Overkill I can live with but if this root-kit trojan has a mechanism that > actually goes and resides in the BIOS then we are right royally screwed ? > And wiping the disk is not going to help ? In that case flashing the bios > and in extreme cases actually pulling out and puting the bios chip back is > the only solution ? So YES agreed it is overkill but liek I said better to > be safe than sorry with no back up of countless hours of data. ( Yes I had > to do this long years ago :-) Always make backups, and if you don't trust the machine you backed up, only ever restore data files, never executable code (which in the case of Microsoft products can be difficult given some of their data formats include executable code in them). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 18:56:19 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:56:19 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: <20131126183704.GF20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126163126.GD20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126181855.GE20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126183704.GF20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > > > Always make backups, and if you don't trust the machine you backed up, > only ever restore data files, never executable code (which in the case > of Microsoft products can be difficult given some of their data formats > include executable code in them). > War Story: 1995 I had two Novell Servers in a production environment. One Primary the second as a fail-safe, we took back-ups every night onto a zip drive and a tape and to multiple CD's. We were running windows 3.1 and DOS using Clipper as the programming language and database tool. One day primary server failed, no warning no nothing just went POOF ! We switched over to the back-up it seemed to work so went looking for the back-ups to restore the primary server. Guess what ? The zip disks most had read errors and no go, the tape back-up had fungus built up and I could actually see patches of discolored sections and that was a no go. Finally out of sheer desperation reached for the CD back-ups and there were a lot of CD's only to find read errors again. So I was now getting ready to resign from my position before they decided to fire me. I called a friend who was more into hard ware than me and explained I had a situation can he please advice ? He said forget the zip and tape as both will take time and may be beyond salvage but get the CD's and follow instructions. Which I proceeded to do and it worked thank you god ! You are never going to believe what I had to do. I took that bunch of cd's into the nearest washroom, one by one I washed them gently using water and a bar of soap. And he was very picky that I wipe the CD's from the inner to the outer edge which I didnt know then but do now why. So moral of the story: Three separate back-ups that failed to work when I needed them to. Soap and water will clean a CD that has unreadable sectors most times if not physically scratched or damaged. Even though you may feel your buddy is a certifiable lunatic who just went over the line into borderline insanity by asking you to WASH the backup set of cd's always trust those who have been there and done dat before and maybe even printed da T-shirts ! *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 19:01:12 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:01:12 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126163126.GD20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126181855.GE20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126183704.GF20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131126190112.GA106259@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> The moral I took from that story is that there is nothing more worthless than and untested backup. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 19:06:18 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:06:18 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: <20131126190112.GA106259-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126163126.GD20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126181855.GE20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126183704.GF20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126190112.GA106259@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Sir, we were a 24/7 production environment back in sri lanka in the BOI with a Belgian company that brought in rough uncut diamonds and we cut and polished then sent them back. The back-ups were taken meticulously and TESTED each day right after but I feel maybe the level of mositure present in the atmosphere and the dust and all other forms of fungus and bacteria in a tropical country may have over time contributed to the read errors. But yes you are right a back up should always be tested and maybe not just the once but at regular periodic intervals like I do now :-) On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > The moral I took from that story is that there is nothing more worthless > than and untested backup. > > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 19:13:41 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:13:41 -0500 Subject: Gstreamer + PyGTK and Streaming Video Message-ID: Two question for PyGTK and Gstreamer experts : Is it possible to play a internet stream such as a youtube movie/vidoeo using a pipeline in gstaremer ? The file format am interested in is the flash .swf. Tried gst-launch but keep getting errors that I do not really understand and google does not have any articles that really point one in the right direction so any help and guidance is welcome and greatly appreciated. In gtk.WindowGroup can one set the height and width ? If so how ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 19:46:51 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:46:51 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126163126.GD20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126181855.GE20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126183704.GF20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126190112.GA106259@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20131126194651.GG20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 02:06:18PM -0500, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > Sir, we were a 24/7 production environment back in sri lanka in the BOI > with a Belgian company that brought in rough uncut diamonds and we cut and > polished then sent them back. The back-ups were taken meticulously and > TESTED each day right after but I feel maybe the level of mositure present > in the atmosphere and the dust and all other forms of fungus and bacteria > in a tropical country may have over time contributed to the read errors. > But yes you are right a back up should always be tested and maybe not just > the once but at regular periodic intervals like I do now :-) And of course a good backup tape job verifies the tape as part of the backup. Fortunately LTO does that automatically as part of writing and even writes extra copies of blocks if it detects an unreliable part of tape has just been used. Helical scan tape systems like DSS and exabyte simply should not be used. They are junk. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 26 18:29:09 2013 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:29:09 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126163126.GD20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131126181855.GE20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <2C0A5698-4E34-4CFF-9FA9-DAEB6A104F4F@nashnetworks.ca> If you are feeling really paranoid about the disk, just buy a new one and and do a fresh install of Windoze, Orifice and whatever other M$ products are in use. Disinfect the current drive & copy only the critical data over. Disk drives cost way way less than your time nuking it. paul On Nov 26, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > > Reinitialized is NOT a low level format. Also doing even that is > complete overkill. Simply overwriting the disk with zeroes is plenty, > and even that is overkill. Writing a new filesystem and partition table > would be enough to wipe any link to any software on the disk. > > Overkill I can live with but if this root-kit trojan has a mechanism that actually goes and resides in the BIOS then we are right royally screwed ? And wiping the disk is not going to help ? In that case flashing the bios and in extreme cases actually pulling out and puting the bios chip back is the only solution ? So YES agreed it is overkill but liek I said better to be safe than sorry with no back up of countless hours of data. ( Yes I had to do this long years ago :-) > > And yes fdisk /mbr used to overwrite the boot sector with a default > loader and hence would wipe out any boot sector virus present there. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > Aruna Hewapathirane > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 1974 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 27 22:19:19 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:19:19 -0500 Subject: OT: Video Disc Player and discs Message-ID: Some co-workers of mine found an RCA Video Disc Player (NOT Laser Disc, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc ) and some discs. It works - we tested it. While I'm fascinated by the technology involved (and so assume some percentage of other geeks will likewise be fascinated), I don't need another piece of outdated technology in my house. If anyone wants it, it comes with copies of "Dragonslayer," "Vertigo" (first disc only!), "WarGames," "2010," and "Close Encounters." Pick up at North York Civic Centre, free. (It's fairly heavy.) Even if you're not interested, I encourage you to skim the Wikipedia entry: it's interesting to think how different things would be had RCA succeeded in getting this thing to market in the 1960s as they should have done - instead of in 1981 when it had to compete with LaserDisc, VHS, and Betamax. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-+oaQStku59NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 27 22:38:48 2013 From: hugh-+oaQStku59NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Hugh Gamble) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:38:48 -0500 Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: CAV or CLV? From: u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org [mailto:u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Giles Orr Sent: November-27-13 5:19 PM To: tlug; UU Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs Some co-workers of mine found an RCA Video Disc Player (NOT Laser Disc, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc ) and some discs. It works - we tested it. While I'm fascinated by the technology involved (and so assume some percentage of other geeks will likewise be fascinated), I don't need another piece of outdated technology in my house. If anyone wants it, it comes with copies of "Dragonslayer," "Vertigo" (first disc only!), "WarGames," "2010," and "Close Encounters." Pick up at North York Civic Centre, free. (It's fairly heavy.) Even if you're not interested, I encourage you to skim the Wikipedia entry: it's interesting to think how different things would be had RCA succeeded in getting this thing to market in the 1960s as they should have done - instead of in 1981 when it had to compete with LaserDisc, VHS, and Betamax. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6859 - Release Date: 11/22/13 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 6147 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 27 22:52:08 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:52:08 -0500 Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm assuming you're asking "constant angular velocity" or "constant linear velocity." Given that the Wikipedia article mentions "450 rpm for NTSC" and they're based on vinyl records which also had fixed RPM, I'd guess "CAV." On 27 November 2013 17:38, Hugh Gamble wrote: > CAV or CLV? > > > > *From:* u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org [mailto: > u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org] *On Behalf Of *Giles Orr > *Sent:* November-27-13 5:19 PM > *To:* tlug; UU > *Subject:* [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs > > > > Some co-workers of mine found an RCA Video Disc Player (NOT Laser Disc, > see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc ) and some > discs. It works - we tested it. While I'm fascinated by the technology > involved (and so assume some percentage of other geeks will likewise be > fascinated), I don't need another piece of outdated technology in my > house. If anyone wants it, it comes with copies of "Dragonslayer," > "Vertigo" (first disc only!), "WarGames," "2010," and "Close Encounters." > Pick up at North York Civic Centre, free. (It's fairly heavy.) > > Even if you're not interested, I encourage you to skim the Wikipedia > entry: it's interesting to think how different things would be had RCA > succeeded in getting this thing to market in the 1960s as they should have > done - instead of in 1981 when it had to compete with LaserDisc, VHS, and > Betamax. > > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6859 - Release Date: 11/22/13 > -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-+oaQStku59NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 27 23:00:33 2013 From: hugh-+oaQStku59NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Hugh Gamble) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:00:33 -0500 Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: NTSC North American disks come either way, like Beta vs VHS. It's 50/50 which you've got. I don't know any player that does both (you need 2 players). From: Giles Orr [mailto:gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] Sent: November-27-13 5:52 PM To: Hugh Gamble Cc: tlug; UU Subject: Re: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs I'm assuming you're asking "constant angular velocity" or "constant linear velocity." Given that the Wikipedia article mentions "450 rpm for NTSC" and they're based on vinyl records which also had fixed RPM, I'd guess "CAV." On 27 November 2013 17:38, Hugh Gamble wrote: CAV or CLV? From: u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org [mailto:u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Giles Orr Sent: November-27-13 5:19 PM To: tlug; UU Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs Some co-workers of mine found an RCA Video Disc Player (NOT Laser Disc, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc ) and some discs. It works - we tested it. While I'm fascinated by the technology involved (and so assume some percentage of other geeks will likewise be fascinated), I don't need another piece of outdated technology in my house. If anyone wants it, it comes with copies of "Dragonslayer," "Vertigo" (first disc only!), "WarGames," "2010," and "Close Encounters." Pick up at North York Civic Centre, free. (It's fairly heavy.) Even if you're not interested, I encourage you to skim the Wikipedia entry: it's interesting to think how different things would be had RCA succeeded in getting this thing to market in the 1960s as they should have done - instead of in 1981 when it had to compete with LaserDisc, VHS, and Betamax. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6859 - Release Date: 11/22/13 -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3629/6872 - Release Date: 11/27/13 _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6859 - Release Date: 11/22/13 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 6147 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 27 23:07:27 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:07:27 -0500 Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Hugh. You appear to be thinking of Laser Discs, which did indeed come in both forms. Please note that I'm talking about a Video Disc Player, which uses a form of modified vinyl disc. It appears to be entirely CAV, so it shouldn't be an issue. Might be worth looking at the Wikipedia article I referenced. On 27 November 2013 18:00, Hugh Gamble wrote: > NTSC North American disks come either way, like Beta vs VHS. > > It?s 50/50 which you?ve got. > > > > I don?t know any player that does both (you need 2 players). > > > > *From:* Giles Orr [mailto:gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] > *Sent:* November-27-13 5:52 PM > *To:* Hugh Gamble > *Cc:* tlug; UU > *Subject:* Re: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs > > > > I'm assuming you're asking "constant angular velocity" or "constant linear > velocity." Given that the Wikipedia article mentions "450 rpm for NTSC" > and they're based on vinyl records which also had fixed RPM, I'd guess > "CAV." > > > > On 27 November 2013 17:38, Hugh Gamble wrote: > > CAV or CLV? > > > > *From:* u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org [mailto: > u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org] *On Behalf Of *Giles Orr > *Sent:* November-27-13 5:19 PM > *To:* tlug; UU > *Subject:* [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs > > > > Some co-workers of mine found an RCA Video Disc Player (NOT Laser Disc, > see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc ) and some > discs. It works - we tested it. While I'm fascinated by the technology > involved (and so assume some percentage of other geeks will likewise be > fascinated), I don't need another piece of outdated technology in my > house. If anyone wants it, it comes with copies of "Dragonslayer," > "Vertigo" (first disc only!), "WarGames," "2010," and "Close Encounters." > Pick up at North York Civic Centre, free. (It's fairly heavy.) > > Even if you're not interested, I encourage you to skim the Wikipedia > entry: it's interesting to think how different things would be had RCA > succeeded in getting this thing to market in the 1960s as they should have > done - instead of in 1981 when it had to compete with LaserDisc, VHS, and > Betamax. > > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6859 - Release Date: 11/22/13 > > > > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3629/6872 - Release Date: 11/27/13 > > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6859 - Release Date: 11/22/13 > -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-+oaQStku59NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 27 23:14:55 2013 From: hugh-+oaQStku59NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Hugh Gamble) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:14:55 -0500 Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was indeed assuming laser video disks. I don?t know about analogue video disks. I have Video CDs, but those use an optical player too. Where do you get needles for a capacitive video player? Anybody still got a 3? floppy (not 3 ?? or 3 ??) in their monitor? Those were popular for recording video too, and not optically. From: u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org [mailto:u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Gamble Sent: November-27-13 6:01 PM To: 'Giles Orr' Cc: 'tlug'; 'UU' Subject: Re: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs NTSC North American disks come either way, like Beta vs VHS. It?s 50/50 which you?ve got. I don?t know any player that does both (you need 2 players). From: Giles Orr [mailto:gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] Sent: November-27-13 5:52 PM To: Hugh Gamble Cc: tlug; UU Subject: Re: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs I'm assuming you're asking "constant angular velocity" or "constant linear velocity." Given that the Wikipedia article mentions "450 rpm for NTSC" and they're based on vinyl records which also had fixed RPM, I'd guess "CAV." On 27 November 2013 17:38, Hugh Gamble wrote: CAV or CLV? From: u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org [mailto:u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Giles Orr Sent: November-27-13 5:19 PM To: tlug; UU Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs Some co-workers of mine found an RCA Video Disc Player (NOT Laser Disc, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc ) and some discs. It works - we tested it. While I'm fascinated by the technology involved (and so assume some percentage of other geeks will likewise be fascinated), I don't need another piece of outdated technology in my house. If anyone wants it, it comes with copies of "Dragonslayer," "Vertigo" (first disc only!), "WarGames," "2010," and "Close Encounters." Pick up at North York Civic Centre, free. (It's fairly heavy.) Even if you're not interested, I encourage you to skim the Wikipedia entry: it's interesting to think how different things would be had RCA succeeded in getting this thing to market in the 1960s as they should have done - instead of in 1981 when it had to compete with LaserDisc, VHS, and Betamax. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6859 - Release Date: 11/22/13 -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3629/6872 - Release Date: 11/27/13 _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6859 - Release Date: 11/22/13 _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6859 - Release Date: 11/22/13 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 6147 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 28 01:28:35 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 20:28:35 -0500 Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52969C43.5010908@gmail.com> On 13-11-27 06:14 PM, Hugh Gamble wrote: > > Anybody still got a 3? floppy (not 3 ?? or 3 ??) in their monitor? Very fond memories of the Hitachi 3" disk. They were slightly popular in the UK, as they were used in almost all Amstrad 8-bit computers, the ZX Spectrum +3, and the ridiculously developer-friendly (but ????) Tatung Einstein. (I still miss the EPROM software for the Amstrad CPC. A pretty decent word processor fitted into a 16kB ROM, and could be switched in with a two key command. But I digress.) 3" disks were very tough; friends used to mail them without cases or envelopes, and they'd make it through (usually). Apart from their high price and low density (178 kB per side, formatted) they were good and reliable. Unfortunately, as the drives age, their drive belts give out, so few people have working ones now. I had hundreds of them. Only had very few fail. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tehowe-lJUvcdpYuyfIEIWhD7vHkg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 28 13:25:44 2013 From: tehowe-lJUvcdpYuyfIEIWhD7vHkg at public.gmane.org (Todd Howe) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 08:25:44 -0500 Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131128132544.GA32678@signaltonoise.ca> I found this fascinating in the Wikipedia article: "Novelty discs and CED-based games were produced whereby accessing the chapters in a specified order would string together a different story each time. However, only a few were produced before the halt of CED player manufacturing" Most DVDs never took advantage of these presentation features, but CEDs had 'games'? I've seen an 8-track once or twice, at a safe distance, and I'm barely aware of the existence of laserdiscs - I'm pretty sure a friend's Dad once had Star Wars on laserdisc. The most esoteric my family ever got was a Betamax player (fie, foul VHS usurper) - yet from this article clearly CEDs, C*Vs had a heydey as some sort of vinyl based ancestor to DVDs. So much interesting tech binned - Beta machines could be as digital audio masters as well at the time (?!) The storage of video is a commodity now, you just pick some two terabyte hard drive off the shelf or build a NAS and the Internet's lookign like the end of history for media formats but the closed-format wars carry on for other products. -_____ Todd Howe ____________________ -____ GPG: public key id E8BCABA7___ On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 06:14:55PM -0500, Hugh Gamble wrote: > I was indeed assuming laser video disks. I don?t know about analogue video > disks. > > > > I have Video CDs, but those use an optical player too. > > Where do you get needles for a capacitive video player? > > > > Anybody still got a 3? floppy (not 3 ?? or 3 ??) in their monitor? > > Those were popular for recording video too, and not optically. > > > > From: u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org [mailto:u-u-bounces at unixunanimous.org] > On Behalf Of Hugh Gamble > Sent: November-27-13 6:01 PM > To: 'Giles Orr' > Cc: 'tlug'; 'UU' > Subject: Re: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs > > > > NTSC North American disks come either way, like Beta vs VHS. > > It?s 50/50 which you?ve got. > > > > I don?t know any player that does both (you need 2 players). > > > > From: Giles Orr [mailto:gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] > Sent: November-27-13 5:52 PM > To: Hugh Gamble > Cc: tlug; UU > Subject: Re: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs > > > > I'm assuming you're asking "constant angular velocity" or "constant linear > velocity." Given that the Wikipedia article mentions "450 rpm for NTSC" and > they're based on vinyl records which also had fixed RPM, I'd guess "CAV." > > > > On 27 November 2013 17:38, Hugh Gamble wrote: > > CAV or CLV? > > > > From: u-u-bounces-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org [mailto:u-u-bounces at unixunanimous.org] > On Behalf Of Giles Orr > Sent: November-27-13 5:19 PM > To: tlug; UU > Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs > > > > Some co-workers of mine found an RCA Video Disc Player (NOT Laser Disc, see > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc ) and some discs. > It works - we tested it. While I'm fascinated by the technology involved > (and so assume some percentage of other geeks will likewise be fascinated), > I don't need another piece of outdated technology in my house. If anyone > wants it, it comes with copies of "Dragonslayer," "Vertigo" (first disc > only!), "WarGames," "2010," and "Close Encounters." Pick up at North York > Civic Centre, free. (It's fairly heavy.) > > Even if you're not interested, I encourage you to skim the Wikipedia entry: > it's interesting to think how different things would be had RCA succeeded in > getting this thing to market in the 1960s as they should have done - instead > of in 1981 when it had to compete with LaserDisc, VHS, and Betamax. > > > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6859 - Release Date: 11/22/13 > > > > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3629/6872 - Release Date: 11/27/13 > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6859 - Release Date: 11/22/13 > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6859 - Release Date: 11/22/13 > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 28 13:31:44 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 08:31:44 -0500 Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: <20131128132544.GA32678-lJUvcdpYuyfIEIWhD7vHkg@public.gmane.org> References: <20131128132544.GA32678@signaltonoise.ca> Message-ID: <529745C0.6010104@rogers.com> Todd Howe wrote: > I've seen an 8-track once or twice, at a safe distance, I've even seen a 4 track player. They were even less popular than 8 tracks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 28 14:31:42 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 09:31:42 -0500 Subject: OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Any chance you could post some photos of the player? This is the first I've heard about this technology! On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > Some co-workers of mine found an RCA Video Disc Player (NOT Laser Disc, see > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc ) and some discs. > It works - we tested it. While I'm fascinated by the technology involved > (and so assume some percentage of other geeks will likewise be fascinated), > I don't need another piece of outdated technology in my house. If anyone > wants it, it comes with copies of "Dragonslayer," "Vertigo" (first disc > only!), "WarGames," "2010," and "Close Encounters." Pick up at North York > Civic Centre, free. (It's fairly heavy.) > > Even if you're not interested, I encourage you to skim the Wikipedia entry: > it's interesting to think how different things would be had RCA succeeded in > getting this thing to market in the 1960s as they should have done - instead > of in 1981 when it had to compete with LaserDisc, VHS, and Betamax. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 28 15:07:56 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:07:56 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: <20131126151435.GA73687-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20131126151435.GA73687@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Nov 26, 2013 10:15 AM, "Neil Watson" wrote: > > Symantec has a removal tool. > http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2011-071314-0410-99&tabid=3 > > I would be very suspicious of that host even after successful remove. > Consider a reinstall for complete safety. It sure is a nasty one. He used a free Avast tool and it didn't even find it. Then he used something called Eset, recommended by Rogers, to remove it but that seems to have temporarily hosed some system files, which is I guess where a lot of Trojans try and hide. The system is back up and running, but I will recommend he at least keep one or more of these rescue CDs around in case. Thanks :-) > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 28 15:12:40 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:12:40 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: <20131126153622.GC20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131126153622.GC20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Nov 26, 2013 10:36 AM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:09:32AM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > > Hey y'all, > > > > Friend is infected with this bastard Trojan called Zero Access. > > > > The usual crappy antivirus tools have only managed to screw up his Windows > > install. > > > > Can anyone recommend a Linux boot disc or other tool that can help with > > this? I realize this is only tangential to Linux topic but he is really > > desperate and I know nothing about Windows :-) > > Would something like the Kapersky rescue CD help? > > http://support.kaspersky.com/4162 Ha, I thought that was defunct because when I did a search on virus removal I didn't see any Kaspersky. I haven't had to worry about viruses for so long I am pretty clueless B-) I will try that out for sure. Thanks man. > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 28 15:25:56 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:25:56 -0500 Subject: Zero access Rootkit In-Reply-To: References: <20131126151435.GA73687@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <52976084.3040008@gmail.com> There's a MetaFilter user, deezil, who maintains an anti-virus help checklist that I've heard many folks swear by. It's documented on his user page, and he keeps it as current as possible: http://www.metafilter.com/user/77879 I'll bet it's getting a workout in family gatherings today across the USA. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 28 15:34:42 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:34:42 -0500 Subject: OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pictures: http://www.videointerchange.com/images/ced.jpg http://gizwizbiz.squarespace.com/storage/SelectavisionRCA-ad.jpg I'm not sure there was more than one player in the three years it was in existence - these are the same as the one we have here. Both pictures show discs as well as the player. The cartridge is reminiscent of the eight track, but in this case after inserting the disc you pull the cartridge back out while the disc remains in the player. And after you've watched half the movie, you have to put the cartridge in, take the disc out, flip it, put the cartridge and disc back in, pull the the cartridge out ... and then play the second side of the disc. Video quality (per Wikipedia) is on par with VHS-SP - but as the system requires physical contact, I guess the discs will eventually degrade. The discs are 12" in diameter and quite heavy. If you're thinking vinyl discs (a reasonable idea), I'd say 2.5 times as heavy. On 28 November 2013 09:31, Tim Tisdall wrote: > Any chance you could post some photos of the player? This is the > first I've heard about this technology! > > > On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > > Some co-workers of mine found an RCA Video Disc Player (NOT Laser Disc, > see > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc ) and some > discs. > > It works - we tested it. While I'm fascinated by the technology involved > > (and so assume some percentage of other geeks will likewise be > fascinated), > > I don't need another piece of outdated technology in my house. If anyone > > wants it, it comes with copies of "Dragonslayer," "Vertigo" (first disc > > only!), "WarGames," "2010," and "Close Encounters." Pick up at North > York > > Civic Centre, free. (It's fairly heavy.) > > > > Even if you're not interested, I encourage you to skim the Wikipedia > entry: > > it's interesting to think how different things would be had RCA > succeeded in > > getting this thing to market in the 1960s as they should have done - > instead > > of in 1981 when it had to compete with LaserDisc, VHS, and Betamax. > > > > -- > > Giles > > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 28 15:48:32 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:48:32 -0500 Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: <20131128132544.GA32678-lJUvcdpYuyfIEIWhD7vHkg@public.gmane.org> References: <20131128132544.GA32678@signaltonoise.ca> Message-ID: <529765D0.6020601@gmail.com> On 13-11-28 08:25 AM, Todd Howe wrote: > > So much interesting tech binned - Beta machines could be as digital > audio masters as well at the time (?!) Video tape was about the only thing that had the bandwidth that stereo digital audio needed. It wasn't just Beta; U-Matic and VHS would work. Fun fact: the 44.1 kHz audio standard sampling rate because it was an exact multiple of both NTSC and PAL frame/field rates. It was easy to write to commodity video tape systems for CD mastering. Old tech is fun to read about, but balky and sullen to own and use. I'm glad I can say that I've booted a MicroVAX from TK50 tape, and equally glad that I'll never have to do it again. I still get pangs when I encounter jewel-like Nagra tape decks and ancient wire recorders at flea markets ? but the former will always be too expensive, and the latter far too heavy to move. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 28 16:50:05 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:50:05 -0500 Subject: OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5297743D.9090802@rogers.com> Giles Orr wrote: > The cartridge is reminiscent of the eight track, but in this case > after inserting the disc you pull the cartridge back out while the > disc remains in the player. And after you've watched half the movie, > you have to put the cartridge in, take the disc out, flip it, put the > cartridge and disc back in, pull the the cartridge out ... and then > play the second side of the disc. Video quality (per Wikipedia) is on > par with VHS-SP - but as the system requires physical contact, I guess > the discs will eventually degrade. JVC had a competing video disc, which used grooveless discs. Now that we're in a retro mode, I suppose you could say the RCA system was "groovy". ;-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_High_Density -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 28 16:55:26 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:55:26 -0500 Subject: [u-u] OT: Video Disc Player and discs In-Reply-To: <529765D0.6020601-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20131128132544.GA32678@signaltonoise.ca> <529765D0.6020601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5297757E.90704@rogers.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I'm > glad I can say that I've booted a MicroVAX from TK50 tape, I've booted an LSI-11 from floppy many times. They were used as the console for the VAX 11/780. I still remember the STP (Set Terminal Program) command to use it as the terminal for the VAX. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 30 02:02:41 2013 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:02:41 -0500 Subject: encryption for home partition and backups Message-ID: Hello Everyone I'm using a laptop running Debian Jesse on an LVM (with separate /home and swap partitions). Is it possible to convert current system to encrypted /home and swap volumes without reinstalling everything from scratch? I'm fine with copying all the existing data to an external hard drive reformatting the partition to something that supports encryption and then copying everything back. If found cryptosetup and LUCKS being mentioned in several places, has anyone tried using these tools? As a related question, is it possible to have an encrypted file on an existing filesystem which I can access by mounting and then dumping rsync stream into it? Sort of what TrueCrypt is doing only 100% open source and preferably implemented using fusefs. Thanks, Alex. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 30 03:17:50 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 22:17:50 -0500 Subject: encryption for home partition and backups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <529958DE.2070207@sobac.com> Create a new partition, encrypt it with LUKS, add that as a PV to your LVM, then remove the unencrypted PV. LVM will automatically move all the extents from the unencrypted partition to the encrypted partition. Be sure to copy /boot to an unencrypted partition or LV (GRUB2 is fine with /boot on an LV). You may have to re-install GRUB so that the computer boots off an unencrypted partition. Of course, you need to have enough space on your drive to do that. If you don't, then put LUKS on the external drive, add that as a PV to your LVM, remove the PV on the internal drive's partition, wait while LVM moves the extents, then encrypt the internal drive partition with LUKS, add that as a PV to LVM, remove the PV for the external drive, wait while LVM moves all the extents to the internal encrypted volume. Again, have /boot on an unencrypted partition, and you may need to re-install GRUB. If you can mount an encrypted filesystem on the remote system, then rsync can just write to it (using ssh as the transport). But I'm not sure what you need to do if you don't want to mount the encrypted FS on the remote system (making the unencrypted files visible on that system). --Bob. On 13-11-29 09:02 PM, Alex Volkov wrote: > Hello Everyone > > I'm using a laptop running Debian Jesse on an LVM (with separate /home and > swap partitions). > > Is it possible to convert current system to encrypted /home and swap > volumes without reinstalling everything from scratch? I'm fine with copying > all the existing data to an external hard drive reformatting the partition > to something that supports encryption and then copying everything back. > If found cryptosetup and LUCKS being mentioned in several places, has > anyone tried using these tools? > > As a related question, is it possible to have an encrypted file on an > existing filesystem which I can access by mounting and then dumping rsync > stream into it? Sort of what TrueCrypt is doing only 100% open source and > preferably implemented using fusefs. > > > Thanks, > > Alex. > -- Bob Jonkman Phone: +1-519-669-0388 SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/ http://sn.jonkman.ca/bobjonkman/ Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 30 13:03:15 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 08:03:15 -0500 Subject: encryption for home partition and backups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 29 November 2013 21:02, Alex Volkov wrote: > I'm using a laptop running Debian Jesse on an LVM (with separate /home and > swap partitions). > > Is it possible to convert current system to encrypted /home and swap > volumes without reinstalling everything from scratch? I'm fine with copying > all the existing data to an external hard drive reformatting the partition > to something that supports encryption and then copying everything back. > If found cryptosetup and LUCKS being mentioned in several places, has > anyone tried using these tools? > > As a related question, is it possible to have an encrypted file on an > existing filesystem which I can access by mounting and then dumping rsync > stream into it? Sort of what TrueCrypt is doing only 100% open source and > preferably implemented using fusefs. > I've been using an encrypted /home/ for a year and a bit. My system partition and swap are unencrypted. As Bob says, you can encrypt everything but /boot/ : I haven't tried that, as it's a bit more of a hassle and my main concern is my own documents, not my OS. As for swap - leaving it unencrypted is a huge security hole, but encrypting it is a huge PITA (as I understand it - I haven't done it) if you use either suspend or especially hibernate. Do your reading (or ask around here). Note that I started with a new system and so didn't have to migrate data as you'll have to. I would suggest moving /home/ off to an external drive, encrypting the /home/ partition, and moving the data back - if you're okay with an unencrypted OS partition, this will be easiest. If you're in the mood to improve your system, Bob is right: LVM would be better (although I don't use it myself as I'm lazy and it adds complexity even while making volume management immensely easier ... I just don't juggle partitions enough for it to be worthwhile.) I've been pretty happy with LUKS and cryptsetup: I do rotating backups to multiple external hard drives, all of which are encrypted. When I plug them in LXDE asks for a password to mount, and after that the space is treated exactly like a normal partition. I use rsync to do the backups, so yes - very easy to use. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 30 17:07:50 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 12:07:50 -0500 Subject: encryption for home partition and backups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <529A1B66.4070204@sobac.com> Giles Orr wrote: > As for swap - leaving it unencrypted is a huge security hole, but > encrypting it is a huge PITA (as I understand it - I haven't done it) > if you use either suspend or especially hibernate. I've used an unencrypted swap LV as part of my encrypted LVM, and I've also used an encrypted swap in an ordinary partition. In both cases suspend works fine, but hibernate doesn't. Other than that, I don't notice any performance difference from a completely unencrypted swap. Of course, with 8GB RAM there's not a lot of swapping. A quick search[1] shows plenty of solutions. This one looks promising: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnableHibernateWithEncryptedSwap I may try to implement that during the quiet lulls of the global seasonal celebrations. --Bob. [1] https://ixquick.com/do/metasearch.pl?query=encrypted+swap+hibernate On 13-11-30 08:03 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > On 29 November 2013 21:02, Alex Volkov wrote: > >> I'm using a laptop running Debian Jesse on an LVM (with separate >> /home and swap partitions). >> >> Is it possible to convert current system to encrypted /home and >> swap volumes without reinstalling everything from scratch? I'm fine >> with copying all the existing data to an external hard drive >> reformatting the partition to something that supports encryption >> and then copying everything back. If found cryptosetup and LUCKS >> being mentioned in several places, has anyone tried using these >> tools? >> >> As a related question, is it possible to have an encrypted file on >> an existing filesystem which I can access by mounting and then >> dumping rsync stream into it? Sort of what TrueCrypt is doing only >> 100% open source and preferably implemented using fusefs. >> > > I've been using an encrypted /home/ for a year and a bit. My system > partition and swap are unencrypted. As Bob says, you can encrypt > everything but /boot/ : I haven't tried that, as it's a bit more of > a hassle and my main concern is my own documents, not my OS. As for > swap - leaving it unencrypted is a huge security hole, but encrypting > it is a huge PITA (as I understand it - I haven't done it) if you use > either suspend or especially hibernate. Do your reading (or ask > around here). > > Note that I started with a new system and so didn't have to migrate > data as you'll have to. I would suggest moving /home/ off to an > external drive, encrypting the /home/ partition, and moving the data > back - if you're okay with an unencrypted OS partition, this will be > easiest. If you're in the mood to improve your system, Bob is right: > LVM would be better (although I don't use it myself as I'm lazy and > it adds complexity even while making volume management immensely > easier ... I just don't juggle partitions enough for it to be > worthwhile.) > > I've been pretty happy with LUKS and cryptsetup: I do rotating > backups to multiple external hard drives, all of which are encrypted. > When I plug them in LXDE asks for a password to mount, and after that > the space is treated exactly like a normal partition. I use rsync to > do the backups, so yes - very easy to use. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: