From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 00:16:29 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 20:16:29 -0400 Subject: Supper at Panera Bread? In-Reply-To: References: <1367340465.1791.98.camel@bliss.ss.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 5:59 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Colin McGregor > > Thanks for working on this crucial problem. > > The future of TLUG depends on it (I'm only 1/4 joking). > > | On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Maureen wrote: > > | > Have you looked on Church Street? Some interesting places there and > | > they are not all Gay Bars! > | > | To be honest, I've not looked at Church Street. But right now our > | problem is too many very reasonable looking choices, and ... I'd like > | to see us contracting the list of options not expanding them (even if > | this means we might miss the "perfect" option...). > > I don't see any outstanding restaurants in the current list. I'm > certainly not saying that I could do better (I had suggested Salad King > and was then aghast at the hubub). But if Maureen (or anyone else) can > find some better candidates on Church, I'm all for it. > > Ryersonians and ex-Ryersonians: surely you have some inside knowledge > that you could share. Well, I had supper at Panera Bread. I had a large classic penne pasta with a small french onion soup, a chunk of bread and a large soft drink (which is very large) for $15 (this includes tax).I came away from the restaurant feeling quite full. The format is, you go in, order/pay for your food (no tipping), you are given an empty soft drink cup plus an electronic tracking disk. You fill your soft drink cup and then go to your choice of table, leaving the disk in the middle of the table. They then bring the food out to you. I did see and chat for a while with Scott Sullivan (and I will look forward to his observations). As I see it the strengths / weaknesses of Panera Bread are: Strengths: - Good food - Enough space (though we may end up being a little more scattered than we were at Pho 88 or Salad King as there are fewer large tables) - Free WiFi - The volume of music and conversations from other people were low enough not to be a problem Weaknesses: - To get enough space for our group we would need to be on the 2nd floor and as there doesn't appear to be an elevator that could be a real problem for GTALug folk with mobility issues. - Cost, this place is a bit more expensive than Pho 88 and Salad King. > PS: did you know that Ryerson started as the Toronto Normal School? > Do you really think TLUG belongs there? Of course GTALug belongs at Ryerson. A lot of our members (possibly myself included) could use schooling on how to be normal :-) . > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 01:29:53 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 21:29:53 -0400 Subject: ReleasePartyWheezy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > On 30 April 2013 13:19, Colin McGregor wrote: >> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> Is there anyone in the GTA organizing a release party for the new >>> Debian release Wheezy >>> (http://bits.debian.org/2013/04/release-date.html)? >>> >>> If not is there anyone interested in helping to put together such a party? >> >> To follow-up, I did ask if the spot that was used for the recent >> Ubuntu release party would be an option, and the answer was no (they >> are closed on Sunday). It was suggested that we look at C'est What >> (where the Open Street Map people meet) and I haven't yet looked into >> that. Other ideas? > > C'est What has great beer and good food, but I have no idea about > their availability. I would vote for them, but my vote shouldn't > carry much weight because I'm fairly sure I won't make the party. This afternoon I was in at C'est What (67 Front Street East near Church), and reserved a space in the south east corner of the pub May 5th from 6:00 PM on until whenever. I've put up a note about this on the Debian wiki. For those who don't follow Debian releases it should be noted that unlike Ubuntu, who do a release every 6 months, the last time there was a full new Debian release was February 6th, 2011. So, a new release is hardly an every day event... Colin McGregor > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 01:32:34 2013 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 21:32:34 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User Message-ID: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> Hello, I'm hoping the folks on this list might be able to help me with a suggestion. I'm looking to move to a new Linux distribution. I have been using the Mandriva distribution for a number years since it was called Mandrake and it was in version 8.0. Recently, I have been happily using Mandriva 2011.0 ("Hydrogen"). I just discovered that the home user version of Mandriva (Mandriva Powerpack 20xx) is no longer being supported or updated (my update manager is no longer receiving updates) as it has reached its end of life. In addition, Mandriva has taken the decision to focus on their corporate products and are no longer producing a home version. I have determined that there are a couple forks that have started since the Open Mandriva (http://www.openmandriva.org), which just got started earlier this year, and Mageia (http://www.mageia.org), which started in September 2010 and has had two major releases. Now that you have the background, I have a few questions that I'm hoping to have answered: 1. What is this group's opinion of either Open Mandriva or Mageia? Would it make sense to move to one of these distributions seeing as they are forks of a distribution I am very familiar with? 2. If I wanted to try a new distribution what is the recommendation of this group? I would like a distribution that will be the least troublesome (e.g. stable) and will support the most peripherals. I use Chrome as my browser so I don't expect too much issue there. I'm a hobby coder so having access to a decent set of IDEs would be nice, especially ones supporting Python. I currently use Dr. Python as I like the interface and I'm really just trying to practise things I'm learning in Python currently. Having an IDE that would support other programming languages would be nice too. I'm used to using a "Package Manager" to both update my system and add new applications so I would prefer to use a distribution that provides this feature Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. I know the discussion can get quite heated when it comes to favoured distributions. I hoping that the suggestions put forward will take into account my few requirements. Thanks, Brad -- Brad Fonseca Tel: 416-876-2191 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 01:40:15 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 21:40:15 -0400 Subject: Supper at Panera Bread? In-Reply-To: References: <1367340465.1791.98.camel@bliss.ss.org> Message-ID: <5180727F.1020202@ss.org> On 04/30/2013 08:16 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Well, I had supper at Panera Bread. I had a large classic penne pasta > with a small french onion soup, a chunk of bread and a large soft > drink (which is very large) for $15 (this includes tax).I came away > from the restaurant feeling quite full. The format is, you go in, > order/pay for your food (no tipping), you are given an empty soft > drink cup plus an electronic tracking disk. You fill your soft drink > cup and then go to your choice of table, leaving the disk in the > middle of the table. They then bring the food out to you. I did see > and chat for a while with Scott Sullivan (and I will look forward to > his observations). This actually is a positive in regards of simplifying ordering as there is no shuffle for change to cover the bill at the end. > As I see it the strengths / weaknesses of Panera Bread are: > > Strengths: > > - Good food > - Enough space (though we may end up being a little more scattered > than we were at Pho 88 or Salad King as there are fewer large tables) Actually, thinking about, I don't think it'll be any worse then how we had to do branch tables back a Pho Hung's. > - Free WiFi > - The volume of music and conversations from other people were low > enough not to be a problem +1 > Weaknesses: > > - To get enough space for our group we would need to be on the 2nd > floor and as there doesn't appear to be an elevator that could be a > real problem for GTALug folk with mobility issues. > - Cost, this place is a bit more expensive than Pho 88 and Salad King. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 01:57:05 2013 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 21:57:05 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <518070B2.9090207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> Message-ID: Recommendation of course being any persons personal recommendation of what distro they like and works best for them ... I have used redhat, suse, fedora, ubuntu, gentoo, and a few others, and was happy with ubuntu a few of years ago, but when they started experimenting, and especially recent with doing the tablet UI thing, I bolted to linux mint, the ubuntu addition, as did a lot of other people bolt off ubuntu to linux mint , as mint is by far the most popular linux distro. But when ubuntu just got scarier and scarier (and mint is based of ubuntu), and the mint boys crafted that minty goodness into the linux mint debian edition, I went to that, and since, haven't looked back. My wife isn't a power linux user, but I even converted her ubuntu 12.x vintage to LMDE at the start of this year and she is loving it. LMDE is great because it takes the most user friendly linux (mint) and pushes that onto a base off of pure debian goodness, to deliver unmatched over all perfection = LMDE ... IMHO!. I run monodevelop on it just fine, the latest version, and that is probably the most advanced IDE for linux. Run hdpvr, software raid, opera/firefox/chrome, dev. mono environment, banshee, ..... all works great. Also running a debian distro like LMDE also pays off if you work on servers, as ubuntu server is very popular on clouds. -tl On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Brad Fonseca wrote: > Hello, > > I'm hoping the folks on this list might be able to help me with a > suggestion. I'm looking to move to a new Linux distribution. > > I have been using the Mandriva distribution for a number years since it > was called Mandrake and it was in version 8.0. Recently, I have been > happily using Mandriva 2011.0 ("Hydrogen"). I just discovered that the home > user version of Mandriva (Mandriva Powerpack 20xx) is no longer being > supported or updated (my update manager is no longer receiving updates) as > it has reached its end of life. In addition, Mandriva has taken the > decision to focus on their corporate products and are no longer producing a > home version. > > I have determined that there are a couple forks that have started since > the Open Mandriva (http://www.openmandriva.org), which just got started > earlier this year, and Mageia (http://www.mageia.org), which started in > September 2010 and has had two major releases. > > Now that you have the background, I have a few questions that I'm hoping > to have answered: > > 1. What is this group's opinion of either Open Mandriva or Mageia? Would > it make sense to move to one of these distributions seeing as they are > forks of a distribution I am very familiar with? > > 2. If I wanted to try a new distribution what is the recommendation of > this group? I would like a distribution that will be the least troublesome > (e.g. stable) and will support the most peripherals. I use Chrome as my > browser so I don't expect too much issue there. I'm a hobby coder so having > access to a decent set of IDEs would be nice, especially ones supporting > Python. I currently use Dr. Python as I like the interface and I'm really > just trying to practise things I'm learning in Python currently. Having an > IDE that would support other programming languages would be nice too. I'm > used to using a "Package Manager" to both update my system and add new > applications so I would prefer to use a distribution that provides this > feature > > Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. I know the discussion can > get quite heated when it comes to favoured distributions. I hoping that the > suggestions put forward will take into account my few requirements. > > Thanks, > > Brad > -- > Brad Fonseca > Tel: 416-876-2191 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paultarvydas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 02:10:42 2013 From: paultarvydas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Tarvydas) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 22:10:42 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <518070B2.9090207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <518079A2.3050901@gmail.com> I used Mandrake/Mandriva for many years, as a "safe" replacement for Windoze. A desktop for S/W development. I dumped Mandriva over a year ago. I just couldn't handle the continuous drama and lack of business acumen. I didn't find another KDE distro that looked serious. Tried Debian and Ubuntu. Coming from a Mandriva mindset, they were utterly horrible. Just about everything was missing, wrt to a reasonable desktop environment. I'm now running Linux Mint (Cinnamon). Thunderbird & Firefox (& sometimes Chrome). It's quite usable (as a desktop replacement), has most of the stuff I want out of the box. A little less thrilling that Mandriva (but Mandriva is dead to me). (Ubuntu is Debian, Mint is Ubuntu with lots of stuff pre-installed). Kmail uses a different (more complex) format for mail than Thunderbird. Emacs + notmuch can recover and search the Kmail formatted stuff. I had to learn about "apt-get", but it wasn't all that hard. Apparently, it is "good enough", because I haven't searched for another distro for almost a year. I will be most interested in your research for a suitable replacement... pt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 02:31:48 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 22:31:48 -0400 Subject: deal on netbook for Linux [was Re:Ability to buy bare machines. (Was: PC with a GPL'd OS pre-installed)] In-Reply-To: References: <513F8393.5090305@ss.org> <20130312200453.e55df9ce658243581301e334@eol.ca> <5140C0F8.9020700@ss.org> Message-ID: <20130501023148.GA6246@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 06:14:26PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The Canadian one has the bilingual keyboard that confuses my fingers. My pet peeves. Every laptop that I might be interested (low-end laptop to be used as "tablet replacement") comes with bilingual keyboard. Is English market in Canada/US not big enough for them? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 02:38:33 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 22:38:33 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu-13.04 -- disabling ALL compiz desktop effects? In-Reply-To: <20130430225511.GA5582-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130428011818.GA16341@toshiba.localdomain> <20130428192925.fa725179e23c0a391d363a2e@eol.ca> <20130429184711.GA18986@toshiba.localdomain> <20130430225511.GA5582@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130501023833.GB6246@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 06:55:12PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 09:57:39AM -0400, Antonio Sun wrote > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Mauro Souza wrote: > > > > > If you feel that Cinnamon still sucks too many cicles, try XFCE. > > > It's a nice window manager, eats very little, and works. But if > > > you want to go all the way to frugality, install fluxbox. I used > > > it for 2-3 years on my Ubuntu 5.04, ages ago... Takes a little to > > > get used to it, but as soon as you get to know how to make > > > effective use of it, it's pretty good. > > > > > > > +1 for fluxbox. Good for Desktop, within VM, or even remote X > > sessions. Extremely fast and very configurable. And, extremely > > stable too. I've been using it for nearly 10 years, and seldom need > > to "revert" to whatever Desktop manager that comes by default. > > Ditto for ICEWM, which I use. There are several lightweight WMs > that are very usable on netbooks. See > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Window_Manager for a partial > list. This brings up side question. Long ago, the reason for Ubuntu going with Unity was to "unify" desktop presentation for desktop, laptop, tablet, and cell phone. But, if it's so loaded with special effects, how is it going to work at the low-end machines? Do tablets and cell phones have special hardware accelerated effects? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 03:00:48 2013 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 23:00:48 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <518070B2.9090207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51808560.7050703@dinamis.com> On 04/30/2013 09:32 PM, Brad Fonseca wrote: > Hello, > > I'm hoping the folks on this list might be able to help me with a > suggestion. I'm looking to move to a new Linux distribution. Hi, I used to be a Mandrake/Mandriva fan and contributor but I gave up on it a few years ago. I endured Kubuntu for a while but got tired of how frequently things were broken. Since 2009, I've been running Fedora (KDE spin) on my desktop and for longer than that, Debian stable on servers. KDE is well-supported on Fedora and it strikes a good balance between being leading edge and stability so I'm happy with it. Despite claims of the superiority of Debian's package manager by Debian fans, I don't see any appreciable difference between apt and yum. They both work fine. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 03:12:50 2013 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 23:12:50 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <518079A2.3050901-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <518079A2.3050901@gmail.com> Message-ID: Just to note: linux mint debian edition has no relation to ubuntu, it is based pure on debian. I assume all other mint versions do however base off ubuntu. With LMDE you have rolling upgrade (but i heard ubuntu is perhaps planning that too). Learn about apt-get and dpkg -i as well :) I use Cinnamon as well, not Mate. -tl On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Paul Tarvydas wrote: > I used Mandrake/Mandriva for many years, as a "safe" replacement for > Windoze. A desktop for S/W development. > > I dumped Mandriva over a year ago. I just couldn't handle the continuous > drama and lack of business acumen. > > I didn't find another KDE distro that looked serious. > > Tried Debian and Ubuntu. Coming from a Mandriva mindset, they were > utterly horrible. Just about everything was missing, wrt to a reasonable > desktop environment. > > I'm now running Linux Mint (Cinnamon). Thunderbird & Firefox (& sometimes > Chrome). It's quite usable (as a desktop replacement), has most of the > stuff I want out of the box. A little less thrilling that Mandriva (but > Mandriva is dead to me). (Ubuntu is Debian, Mint is Ubuntu with lots of > stuff pre-installed). Kmail uses a different (more complex) format for > mail than Thunderbird. Emacs + notmuch can recover and search the Kmail > formatted stuff. > > I had to learn about "apt-get", but it wasn't all that hard. > > Apparently, it is "good enough", because I haven't searched for another > distro for almost a year. > > I will be most interested in your research for a suitable replacement... > > pt > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 03:15:04 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 23:15:04 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu-13.04 -- disabling ALL compiz desktop effects? In-Reply-To: <20130501023833.GB6246-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130428011818.GA16341@toshiba.localdomain> <20130428192925.fa725179e23c0a391d363a2e@eol.ca> <20130429184711.GA18986@toshiba.localdomain> <20130430225511.GA5582@waltdnes.org> <20130501023833.GB6246@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130501031503.GA6383@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:38:33PM -0400, William Park wrote > This brings up side question. Long ago, the reason for Ubuntu going > with Unity was to "unify" desktop presentation for desktop, laptop, > tablet, and cell phone. Obligatory XKCD reference http://xkcd.com/927/ But seriously, it's a stupid stupid stupid idea. Bicycles are lightweight transportation, similar in principle to cars, so let's "unify the interfaces" and replace steering wheels with handlebars. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 03:32:19 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 23:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Cutting the Cord Part 2: The Waiting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Evan Leibovitch Thanks for telling us about your research and experience. | I've also taken a greater interest in OTA reception, and may even build my | own antenna. It appears the homebuilds are cheap to do and generally out | perform the commercial stuff, whether a big | rigor a little | indoor job . And | (relevant here) the designs are GPL'd! Gosh there's a lot to read. Bottom line: is it easy to make those? In the modern idiom TL;DR. I'm not proud of that. I'm currently interested in indoor. It looks like you need these. How are you sourcing them? - some kind of aluminum bar or wire (called 1/4" flat aluminum wire), 31". 1/4" by what? Different aluminum alloys have quite different characteristics. - some way of bending the wire (aluminum doesn't take a lot of bending, but I naively think that the bending required should be manageable. - some way of fastening bits together. Screws are mentioned. - a Balun. Is that like a 300 ohm twin-lead to 75 ohm coax thingee (of which I have a few left over from long ago)? - some modest pole-like object. Non-conductive might be best. PVC pipe? For outdoors: beware lightening. I know, I said that before. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 11:00:14 2013 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 07:00:14 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <518070B2.9090207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> Message-ID: Hi Brad, On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Brad Fonseca wrote: > 1. What is this group's opinion of either Open Mandriva or Mageia? Would it > make sense to move to one of these distributions seeing as they are forks of > a distribution I am very familiar with? I like Mageia. I've never used Mandriva, but picked up Mageia pretty quickly as the third RPM-based distro I've used. I have it dual-booting on my laptop with openSUSE, and have installed it there as well as inside GNOME Boxes at least ten times without a hitch. I gave it a try nearly two years ago when it promised the most timely release of the upstream GNOME packages, because the maintainer of those packages is a member of the GNOME release team. (I've since been told it's a KDE-based distro, but I've never tried that flavour.) I run the unstable version, called Cauldron, and my only (minor) frustration is that Cauldron is frozen for a week or two as a release approaches. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 11:56:29 2013 From: paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 07:56:29 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord Part 2: The Waiting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: My FTTN modem/router has arrived. They refused to deliver it to the door, > it had to be picked up at a post office of my choosing. It's a Sagemcom > 2864, plastered all over with Bell branding; it's apparently called the > Bell "Connection Hub". Too-sparse manuals included, awaiting the Bell tech > setup next week. Given that I'm going from Cable to DSL I have the luxury > of a two week transition period of having both Internets up. > One word of advise about the Sagemcom 2864. It works not only as your modem but also has a GB switch and USB ports that can share printers and disks on your network. It even has UPNP built in, so you could share media to your TV or other devices. But the firmware is crap; there's no decent firewalling in it, other than port forwarding. And, I'm told, the wireless in it (it does wireless N) is also weak. If you want to use the router you were using in your cable setup, you can simply leave the modem at it's unconfigured factory defaults, and plug a cable in from port LAN1 on the modem, to your WAN port on the router. Then configure all the Teksavvy PPPOE stuff on the router. The modem will then work in passthrough mode, and you'll have the same flexibility as before. pm -- *Paul Mora* email: paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 15:16:48 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 11:16:48 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord Part 2: The Waiting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the feedback. The router I was using (to give NAT, DHCP and basic firewall) was also the cablemodem, an SMC unit rented from Rogersand going back. I do have an older openWRT-capable piece of surplus that I could put into use as a router, but was hoping not to need that. I had already planned to turn the Sagemcom's wifi off, I have an access point elsewhere. And I have no need for the USB ports. But are you saying that it can't even do the basics (DHCP, NAT, standard firewalls) OK? All i really need for a firewall is block everything but forward a few specific incoming ports to one of the machines on the network. In some of the TekSavvy forums I've been reading that when using the Sagemcom in pass-though (they called it bridged) there was a significant performance hit, that it can't be easily configured to get out of the way. On 1 May 2013 07:56, Paul Mora wrote: > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > My FTTN modem/router has arrived. They refused to deliver it to the >> door, it had to be picked up at a post office of my choosing. It's a >> Sagemcom 2864, plastered all over with Bell branding; it's apparently >> called the Bell "Connection Hub". Too-sparse manuals included, awaiting the >> Bell tech setup next week. Given that I'm going from Cable to DSL I have >> the luxury of a two week transition period of having both Internets up. >> > > One word of advise about the Sagemcom 2864. It works not only as your > modem but also has a GB switch and USB ports that can share printers and > disks on your network. It even has UPNP built in, so you could share media > to your TV or other devices. But the firmware is crap; there's no decent > firewalling in it, other than port forwarding. And, I'm told, the wireless > in it (it does wireless N) is also weak. > > If you want to use the router you were using in your cable setup, you can > simply leave the modem at it's unconfigured factory defaults, and plug a > cable in from port LAN1 on the modem, to your WAN port on the router. Then > configure all the Teksavvy PPPOE stuff on the router. The modem will then > work in passthrough mode, and you'll have the same flexibility as before. > > pm > -- > *Paul Mora* > email: paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org > > -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 15:16:50 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 11:16:50 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord Part 2: The Waiting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 05/01/2013 07:56 AM, Paul Mora wrote: > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Evan Leibovitch > wrote: > > My FTTN modem/router has arrived. They refused to deliver it to > the door, it had to be picked up at a post office of my choosing. > It's a Sagemcom 2864, plastered all over with Bell branding; it's > apparently called the Bell "Connection Hub". Too-sparse manuals > included, awaiting the Bell tech setup next week. Given that I'm > going from Cable to DSL I have the luxury of a two week transition > period of having both Internets up. > > > One word of advise about the Sagemcom 2864. It works not only as your > modem but also has a GB switch and USB ports that can share printers > and disks on your network. It even has UPNP built in, so you could > share media to your TV or other devices. But the firmware is crap; > there's no decent firewalling in it, other than port forwarding. And, > I'm told, the wireless in it (it does wireless N) is also weak. > > If you want to use the router you were using in your cable setup, you > can simply leave the modem at it's unconfigured factory defaults, and > plug a cable in from port LAN1 on the modem, to your WAN port on the > router. Then configure all the Teksavvy PPPOE stuff on the router. The > modem will then work in passthrough mode, and you'll have the same > flexibility as before. > pm > -- > *Paul Mora* > email: paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org > Paul, just to clarify, if your recommendation is followed, will the Sagemcom 2864 still be able to share printers and disks on the network through the USB ports? Thanks, John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 16:28:55 2013 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 12:28:55 -0400 Subject: pop.gmail.com oddity In-Reply-To: <20130430101356.GB25062-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130429194238.GA12135@amber> <20130429231952.GA20651@amber> <20130430101356.GB25062@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130501162855.GA26143@amber> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 06:13:56AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > "nslookup" shows what appears to be a round-robin load-balancing > setup. This is consistent with what you've been seeing. > > [d531][waltdnes][~] nslookup pop.gmail.com > Server: 192.168.123.254 > Address: 192.168.123.254#53 > > Non-authoritative answer: > pop.gmail.com canonical name = gmail-pop.l.google.com. > Name: gmail-pop.l.google.com > Address: 74.125.133.109 > Name: gmail-pop.l.google.com > Address: 74.125.133.108 > > Suggestions... > > 1) can you set up your system to accept either of the 2 fingerprints? Well, here's the relevant options in .fetchmailrc: options keep ssl sslcertck sslfingerprint "FF:69:18:0D:75:8C:17:61:F5:EF:FC:F9:85:7D:F5:0E" That's for pop.gmail.com. > 2) failing that, can you hardcode one of the above 2 IP addresses as > "pop.gmail.com" in your hosts file? I'll try that, though I suspect Google won't like it one bit. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 1 17:48:43 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 13:48:43 -0400 Subject: deal on netbook for Linux [was Re:Ability to buy bare machines. (Was: PC with a GPL'd OS pre-installed)] In-Reply-To: <20130501023148.GA6246-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <513F8393.5090305@ss.org> <20130312200453.e55df9ce658243581301e334@eol.ca> <5140C0F8.9020700@ss.org> <20130501023148.GA6246@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130501174843.GD28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:31:48PM -0400, William Park wrote: > My pet peeves. Every laptop that I might be interested (low-end laptop > to be used as "tablet replacement") comes with bilingual keyboard. Is > English market in Canada/US not big enough for them? Sure it is, but a lot of companies have gotten this idea that one model can cover a country. That tends to be true in most of the world. My thinkpad has a US keyboard because I ordered it that way. My wife's ideapad came with a bilingual but now has a US after I replaced the keyboard. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 06:02:43 2013 From: torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 07:02:43 +0100 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <518070B2.9090207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> (Brad Fonseca's message of "Tue, 30 Apr 2013 21:32:34 -0400") References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <848v3xgbr0.fsf@free.fr> Brad Fonseca a ?crit profondement: | Hello, > | I'm hoping the folks on this list might be able to help me with a | suggestion. I'm looking to move to a new Linux distribution. Slackware either 32 or 64 bit -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 07:34:35 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 03:34:35 -0400 Subject: Pogoplug Mobile -- WTF? Message-ID: <20130502073435.GA31070@node1.localdomain> Hi, I just noticed that Pogoplug Mobile is on sale $20, Questions: 1. It seems that you have to connect to their website while it's connected, so that they can locate the device and "activate" it. What if they want to do other things on my computer? 2. Also, another model (Pogoplug Office) has 5 client license. Why do they need license? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 12:47:17 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 08:47:17 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <518070B2.9090207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Brad Fonseca wrote: > Hello, > > I'm hoping the folks on this list might be able to help me with a > suggestion. I'm looking to move to a new Linux distribution. > > I have been using the Mandriva distribution for a number years since it > was called Mandrake and it was in version 8.0. Recently, I have been > happily using Mandriva 2011.0 ("Hydrogen"). I just discovered that the home > user version of Mandriva (Mandriva Powerpack 20xx) is no longer being > supported or updated (my update manager is no longer receiving updates) as > it has reached its end of life. In addition, Mandriva has taken the > decision to focus on their corporate products and are no longer producing a > home version. > > I have determined that there are a couple forks that have started since > the Open Mandriva (http://www.openmandriva.org), which just got started > earlier this year, and Mageia (http://www.mageia.org), which started in > September 2010 and has had two major releases. > > Now that you have the background, I have a few questions that I'm hoping > to have answered: > > 1. What is this group's opinion of either Open Mandriva or Mageia? Would > it make sense to move to one of these distributions seeing as they are > forks of a distribution I am very familiar with? > > 2. If I wanted to try a new distribution what is the recommendation of > this group? I would like a distribution that will be the least troublesome > (e.g. stable) and will support the most peripherals. I use Chrome as my > browser so I don't expect too much issue there. I'm a hobby coder so having > access to a decent set of IDEs would be nice, especially ones supporting > Python. I currently use Dr. Python as I like the interface and I'm really > just trying to practise things I'm learning in Python currently. Having an > IDE that would support other programming languages would be nice too. I'm > used to using a "Package Manager" to both update my system and add new > applications so I would prefer to use a distribution that provides this > feature > > Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. I know the discussion can > get quite heated when it comes to favoured distributions. I hoping that the > suggestions put forward will take into account my few requirements. > > Thanks, > > I used to use Mandriva, many eons ago it seems now. I tried Ubuntu, but didn't like it. The whole 'release' thing was exactly what I hated about Mandriva. I wanted something, as you describe it, 'least troublesome'. There is only one that really exemplifies that description: Debian. In particular, Debian Unstable is really really great. Unstable, it really needs to be mentioned, does NOT refer to it's behaviour. Unstable means that the packages can change a lot, ie. there will sometimes be a lot of updates. Anyone who runs Debian can tell you, they literally never have the slightest problem with updates. I ran a Debian Unstable on my desktop for years and years and never had an issue (excluding the ones I caused myself of course, I am not an expert or anything). Debian. Seriously. It's the best. Not a fanboy, have nothing against any other distro or what they might want to achieve, but if you want zero trouble, Debian is the one. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 12:51:17 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 08:51:17 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <518079A2.3050901-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <518079A2.3050901@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Paul Tarvydas wrote: > I used Mandrake/Mandriva for many years, as a "safe" replacement for > Windoze. A desktop for S/W development. > > I dumped Mandriva over a year ago. I just couldn't handle the continuous > drama and lack of business acumen. > > I didn't find another KDE distro that looked serious. > > Tried Debian and Ubuntu. Coming from a Mandriva mindset, they were > utterly horrible. Just about everything was missing, wrt to a reasonable > desktop environment. > I'm sorry, I just have to ask...what was missing? I used Debian for years and I can't remember ever missing anything. Do you mean Flash or something? > > I'm now running Linux Mint (Cinnamon). Thunderbird & Firefox (& sometimes > Chrome). It's quite usable (as a desktop replacement), has most of the > stuff I want out of the box. A little less thrilling that Mandriva (but > Mandriva is dead to me). (Ubuntu is Debian, Mint is Ubuntu with lots of > stuff pre-installed). Kmail uses a different (more complex) format for > mail than Thunderbird. Emacs + notmuch can recover and search the Kmail > formatted stuff. > > I had to learn about "apt-get", but it wasn't all that hard. > > Apparently, it is "good enough", because I haven't searched for another > distro for almost a year. > > I will be most interested in your research for a suitable replacement... > > pt > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 12:51:56 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 08:51:56 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <848v3xgbr0.fsf-GANU6spQydw@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <848v3xgbr0.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 2:02 AM, Slack Rat wrote: > Brad Fonseca a ?crit profondement: > > | Hello, > > > | I'm hoping the folks on this list might be able to help me with a > | suggestion. I'm looking to move to a new Linux distribution. > > Slackware either 32 or 64 bit > > Man, he said he wanted 'least troublesome' ;-) -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 14:16:15 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 10:16:15 -0400 Subject: Fake bomb detector seller jailed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I am puzzled by this story a bit. It would make sense if this guy tricked individuals but how did he manage to trick organization like UN? Don't they do any test before procurement? Seriously, I don't find him odd, there is a lot like him on the world. I find the fact people are willing to spend that kind of money on faith odd. How can one explain it? It sound too good not to raise bullshit alarm if one had to pitch it to me, so that can't be it. Must be missing something. Fake bomb detector seller jailed http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22380368 William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 14:28:08 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 10:28:08 -0400 Subject: Pogoplug Mobile -- WTF? In-Reply-To: <20130502073435.GA31070-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130502073435.GA31070@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <518277F8.9090905@ss.org> On 05/02/2013 03:34 AM, William Park wrote: > Hi, > > I just noticed that Pogoplug Mobile is on sale $20, > And stock is zero across the board. > Questions: > > 1. It seems that you have to connect to their website while it's > connected, so that they can locate the device and "activate" it. > What if they want to do other things on my computer? So, the pogoplug devices are a basically a small arm computer that's job is to get your storage devices onto the internet. From there their software (both on the plug and in the cloud) takes away the hard part of NAT and port forwarding to make is accessible to anywhere. http://pogoplug.com > 2. Also, another model (Pogoplug Office) has 5 client license. Why do > they need license? For multi-user access to the same device pogoplug device and support. As geeks we understand this kind of remote access to our data, while having it stored at our premise, is not difficult. It's not trivial, but we can all make it work in rather short order. Cloud Engins (the company behind pogoplug) is in the business of providing consumer convince. On a side note, The pogoplug V2 was a great low-cost Linux computer a few years ago because it had mass-volume production. I've got 4, all running Fedora 18. http://revident.net/projects/pogoplug/IMG_20130421_181700.jpg Their only draw back is limited RAM and the fact that support of the armv5 architecture is waning. Fedora will only be supporting armv7 and aarch64* for Fedora 19 and forward. * The name for armv8 64bit which will be arriving in silicon in the next few years. For armv5 that will leave Arch and Debian. A nice reference for devices: http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 15:11:25 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 11:11:25 -0400 Subject: Pogoplug Mobile -- WTF? In-Reply-To: <518277F8.9090905-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20130502073435.GA31070@node1.localdomain> <518277F8.9090905@ss.org> Message-ID: <5182821D.9020006@ss.org> On 05/02/2013 10:28 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 05/02/2013 03:34 AM, William Park wrote: >> Questions: >> >> 1. It seems that you have to connect to their website while it's >> connected, so that they can locate the device and "activate" it. >> What if they want to do other things on my computer? > > So, the pogoplug devices are a basically a small arm computer that's job > is to get your storage devices onto the internet. From there their > software (both on the plug and in the cloud) takes away the hard part of > NAT and port forwarding to make is accessible to anywhere. William, I re-read this question and I'm not quite sure I understand it any more. From my understanding, and use of the service, the only thing they do on 'your' computer is present a website. All the real work is done on the device and the cloud service providing the website. Was that what you were asking about? In more recent history they now offer a version of their software that you can run on 'your' computer to make its contents accessible like their pogoplug 'hardware' devices. To give an example. I have a few of the GoFlexNet devices, which was a Seagate branded Pogoplugs for use with Seagate's GoFlex hard drives. I ended up just cutting some acrylic in order to use bare drives. http://openrebel.ss.org/images/2011-07-29-GoFlexNet-HDD-stablizers.jpg Anyways, I have this setup at my Boyfriends. It shows up as a samba share locally, and then I can access it through the web interface from anywhere to drop files to him. No dink'ing with firewalls, just dropped in and worked. If I was to use their android, iOS, desktop or web client I could access those files from anywhere. I could move the Pogoplug to the office and still access them from anywhere. No config changes required. They really are only selling you some hardware and big helping of convince. If you don't use their newer cloud storage, they don't even hold your data, which was one of the selling points. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 16:06:23 2013 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 12:06:23 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy modem reliability Message-ID: My girlfriend has been a Teksavvy customer for about five months, and is currently having an issue with her modem. She has now been without service for a few days; Bell visited and confirmed that the outside wiring is fine. I don't know the model number, but it's a black unit with green lights, if that helps. Thoughts? Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 16:21:26 2013 From: williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Weaver) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 12:21:26 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy modem reliability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: See if it's one of the Thompson ones. They have a good deal of issues if you don't have the latest firmware which Teksavvy has to put on. I had intermittent connection issues for about a year with them because of that. Will Weaver On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > My girlfriend has been a Teksavvy customer for about five months, and is > currently having an issue with her modem. She has now been without service > for a few days; Bell visited and confirmed that the outside wiring is fine. > > I don't know the model number, but it's a black unit with green lights, if > that helps. Thoughts? > > Alex > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 18:10:04 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 14:10:04 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy modem reliability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130502181004.GE28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 12:06:23PM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > My girlfriend has been a Teksavvy customer for about five months, and is > currently having an issue with her modem. She has now been without service > for a few days; Bell visited and confirmed that the outside wiring is fine. > > I don't know the model number, but it's a black unit with green lights, if > that helps. Thoughts? What speed is the service? For VDSL2 service the modem type is simply one of two. For ADSL services you could have lots of possibilities. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 18:12:52 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 14:12:52 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <848v3xgbr0.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: <20130502181252.GF28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 08:51:56AM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 2:02 AM, Slack Rat wrote: > > > Brad Fonseca a ?crit profondement: > > > > | Hello, > > > > > | I'm hoping the folks on this list might be able to help me with a > > | suggestion. I'm looking to move to a new Linux distribution. > > > > Slackware either 32 or 64 bit > > > > > Man, he said he wanted 'least troublesome' ;-) Some people think they are so funny don't they. Next they will be recommending Gentoo or Arch to the poor user. Isn't having spent time with Mandriva enough suffering? :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 18:13:46 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 14:13:46 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <518079A2.3050901@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130502181346.GG28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 08:51:17AM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > I'm sorry, I just have to ask...what was missing? I used Debian for years > and I can't remember ever missing anything. Do you mean Flash or something? Debian isn't missing anything. It just happens to default to installing nothing which confuses some people. Those users might be better of with Mint. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 18:13:06 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 14:13:06 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy modem reliability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5182ACB2.6060801@sobac.com> Modems do die. I had a GVC modem supplied by Teksavvy, and although it registered a DSL link it wouldn't reliably transfer data, if at all. I didn't believe the Teksavvy support guy that the modem was bad (I thought it would either work or not work, but didn't think there was an intermediate condition). I bought a Thomson Speedtouch modem from Acme Telephone, and that solved all my problems. --Bob. Thomson Speedtouch replacement: ZyXEL?s P-660R http://www.speedtouch.ca/ Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting On 13-05-02 12:06 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > My girlfriend has been a Teksavvy customer for about five months, and is > currently having an issue with her modem. She has now been without service > for a few days; Bell visited and confirmed that the outside wiring is fine. > > I don't know the model number, but it's a black unit with green lights, if > that helps. Thoughts? > > Alex > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 18:38:19 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 14:38:19 -0400 Subject: Soup Alternatives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So, back to our small but real issue of where to get together for socializing before GTALug meetings... Salad King is out, but where is in? The list as stands: =========================== Discards: - Milestones - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 4th floor. Very limited number of under $15 menu items. - Jack Astor's - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 4th floor. Very limited number of under $15 menu items. - Johnny Rockets - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas off Dundas, Ground floor. Very little for the vegetarians - Five Guys Burgers - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas, off Yonge, Ground floor, Vegetarian hostile - Chipotle Mexican Grill - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas, off Yonge, Ground floor. Very limited menu - Zanzibar - Yonge just north of Gould east side. Has "Adult" entertainment, enough said. - Made in China - Yonge just north of Gould east side, Dining room seemed too small - Korean Grill House - Yonge just north of Gould east side. Dining room seemed too small - St. Louis Bar and Grill - Atrium on Bay N/W corner Yonge & Dundas. Sporting event on and place was PACKED. Worth further review: - Tim Hortons - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas Ground floor (entrance off Victoria). Basic, reliable - Food court - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 3rd floor. Good range of inexpensive food, didn't seem that crowded about 7 PM - Panera Bread - N/W corner Yonge & Edward. - Sandwiches, soup, & pasta. Has 2nd floor eating area - Pickle Barrel - Atrium on Bay - N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Good all round spot - Hard Rock Cafe - On Yonge, just south of Dundas Square. Touristy but otherwise has possibilities - Swiss Chalet - Yonge just north of Gould west side - Basic, reliable - Spring Sushi - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 5th floor - Didn't see dining room, but menu looks interesting - Spring Roll - Atrium on Bay N/W corner Yonge & Dundas. Seemed a bit busy but has possibilities. - Kabab Grill, Yonge & Gerard (middle eastern) -- good reviews, meat and veggie variety, has upstairs seating that could be talked into reserving a spot for regulars. - Donair Kebab House, same area -- ditto except for the upstairs - Yueh Tung, Dundas @ Elizabeth ====================== Last Tuesday evening I went to Panera Bread quite frankly with the hope I could remove them from the "Worth Further Review" list, but they are a perfectly reasonable choice (on a number of key points better than Salad King). So, anyone have any particular preferences in the above list? Is there anyone who would like to join me at one of the "Worth Further Review" place to help exclude a location from the list? Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 18:46:04 2013 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 11:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <20130502181252.GF28284-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <848v3xgbr0.fsf@free.fr> <20130502181252.GF28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1367520364.1538.YahooMailNeo@web161601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >Some people think they are so funny don't they.? Next they will be >recommending Gentoo or Arch to the poor user.? Isn't having spent time >with Mandriva enough suffering? :) What was so terrible about Mandriva? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 18:53:21 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 14:53:21 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <1367520364.1538.YahooMailNeo-TyUnntYMKjJal3a5i+KC+JEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <848v3xgbr0.fsf@free.fr> <20130502181252.GF28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1367520364.1538.YahooMailNeo@web161601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20130502185321.GH28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 11:46:04AM -0700, Brad Fonseca wrote: > >Some people think they are so funny don't they.? Next they will be > >recommending Gentoo or Arch to the poor user.? Isn't having spent time > >with Mandriva enough suffering? :) > > What was so terrible about Mandriva? It really was pretty unreliable last I encountered it, and I find rpm based systems in general unpleasant to deal with. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 19:02:28 2013 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 15:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <1367520364.1538.YahooMailNeo-TyUnntYMKjJal3a5i+KC+JEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <848v3xgbr0.fsf@free.fr> <20130502181252.GF28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1367520364.1538.YahooMailNeo@web161601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 May 2013, Brad Fonseca wrote: >> Some people think they are so funny don't they.? Next they will be >> recommending Gentoo or Arch to the poor user.? Isn't having spent time >> with Mandriva enough suffering? :) > > What was so terrible about Mandriva? Nothing; I've been using it quite happily for more than 10 years. I'll probably move to Debian or Mint Debian Edition soon. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 19:04:21 2013 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 15:04:21 -0400 Subject: press on or go back? Message-ID: Any thoughts between Linux Mint Debian Edition and Ubuntu 12.04 LTS? After much suffering over the last year with an older machine running Windows 7 I did two things: 1. Picked up a very nice new Windows 8 machine (making my wife happy) (and StartIsBack making me happy). 2. With all the data backed up somewhere else, began a project to rehabilitate the old machine. Starting from scratch I installed Windows 7 and Linux Mint. New software on old hardware solved nothing so the next step was a new motherboard (Gigabyte with integrated everything) and processor (AMD X4 something or other). This cured all of Windows 7's ills. The Linux Mint Debian Edition partition mostly works nicely EXCEPT FOR SOUND. I?ve been googling and poking at this problem without success. In one of the posts I read, ?In Linux, sound either works or it?ll drive you crazy trying to make it work.? I chose Linux Mint Debian Edition over Ubuntu even though I?ve been a happy Ubuntu user since about 8.04 for a few reasons: DE is supposed to be a bit lighter on the CPU than some other flavours; it?s a rolling release so I hoped to avoid periodic reinstallations; and there?s increasing criticism of arrogance and megalomania at Canonical ? the initials, interestingly, are MS. Yesterday evening I had the bright (?) idea of trying a handy Ubuntu 12.04 LTS AMD 64-bit LiveCD. Sound WORKS! Which brings us back to the question: press on or go back? This isn't a request for help with DE sound. I know there'd be shouts of "Not the place for that!" (Of course, if someone has universal and foolproof solution to my problems I'm all ears.) But I thought it might be worth sounding out (sorry!) the group on the relative merits of Ubuntu, Linux Mint Debian Edition or other editions, or other Linux flavours for someone who is not scared of the command line and editing configuration files but whose Linux knowledge is not deep. (Also with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS at end-of-life in a few days, there are a few other machines for which I need to pick a migration path sometime soon.) Thanks. John Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 19:07:31 2013 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 15:07:31 -0400 Subject: press on or go back? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I recently downloaded Mint KDE 64 bit into a Toshiba laptop. Seems to work fine, but I haven't explored all the features yet. I'd be interested in comments on Mint. Peter > Any thoughts between Linux Mint Debian Edition and Ubuntu 12.04 LTS? > > After much suffering over the last year with an older machine running > Windows 7 I did two things: > > 1. Picked up a very nice new Windows 8 machine (making my wife happy) > (and StartIsBack making me happy). > > 2. With all the data backed up somewhere else, began a project to > rehabilitate the old machine. > > Starting from scratch I installed Windows 7 and Linux Mint. New > software on old hardware solved nothing so the next step was a new > motherboard (Gigabyte with integrated everything) and processor (AMD > X4 something or other). This cured all of Windows 7's ills. The Linux > Mint Debian Edition partition mostly works nicely EXCEPT FOR SOUND. > I?ve been googling and poking at this problem without success. In one > of the posts I read, ?In Linux, sound either works or it?ll drive you > crazy trying to make it work.? > > I chose Linux Mint Debian Edition over Ubuntu even though I?ve been a > happy Ubuntu user since about 8.04 for a few reasons: DE is supposed > to be a bit lighter on the CPU than some other flavours; it?s a > rolling release so I hoped to avoid periodic reinstallations; and > there?s increasing criticism of arrogance and megalomania at Canonical > ? the initials, interestingly, are MS. Yesterday evening I had the > bright (?) idea of trying a handy Ubuntu 12.04 LTS AMD 64-bit LiveCD. > Sound WORKS! > > Which brings us back to the question: press on or go back? > > This isn't a request for help with DE sound. I know there'd be shouts > of "Not the place for that!" (Of course, if someone has universal and > foolproof solution to my problems I'm all ears.) But I thought it > might be worth sounding out (sorry!) the group on the relative merits > of Ubuntu, Linux Mint Debian Edition or other editions, or other Linux > flavours for someone who is not scared of the command line and editing > configuration files but whose Linux knowledge is not deep. > > (Also with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS at end-of-life in a few days, there are a > few other machines for which I need to pick a migration path sometime > soon.) > > Thanks. > > > John Martin > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 19:32:13 2013 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 15:32:13 -0400 Subject: press on or go back? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think when people talk about mint, they really need to specify mint-ubuntu or mint-debian. With mint-debian you have rolling release. and mint-debian has no relation to ubuntu. With respect to sound, I had issues 2-3 years ago with ubuntu, but i am using higher end sound card(s) with digital out, etc. Once i had to completely scrap the sound on ubuntu and build it up as OSS. but lately in last 2+ releases of LMDE (major installs, not incremental rolling), i have had no issue on 4+ systems I have installed it on, with various sound cards. For sound debuging: make sure you have your volumes appropriate for the input and the master. There are options to make sure you switch to the desired type of input. Check your dmesg. ps ax|grep pulse is it running. kill pulse and start it up in a way to give you debug info. In my experience over the years, I agree, usually works, or doesn't, and when it doesn't you usually find google info about card model specific issues. Some cards are just down right problematic. I have a few USB sound "cards". it is helpful to connect one of those, just to see if it works right away, to help debug if its possibly a over all sound server issue or card model specific. In checking sound on my main LMDE system, i noticed just now, i don't have the pulse UI server admin apps. i did before (ubuntu or early LMDE installs), so i went into package management and selected "paman" and that gives me the pulse manager. You may want to install that to help see at what level the issue is occurring. I have had in the past issue ranging from simply having the sound output in the wrong connector, to simply problematic card drivers. -tl On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:07 PM, wrote: > I recently downloaded Mint KDE 64 bit into a Toshiba laptop. Seems to work > fine, but I haven't explored all the features yet. > > I'd be interested in comments on Mint. > > Peter > > > > Any thoughts between Linux Mint Debian Edition and Ubuntu 12.04 LTS? > > > > After much suffering over the last year with an older machine running > > Windows 7 I did two things: > > > > 1. Picked up a very nice new Windows 8 machine (making my wife happy) > > (and StartIsBack making me happy). > > > > 2. With all the data backed up somewhere else, began a project to > > rehabilitate the old machine. > > > > Starting from scratch I installed Windows 7 and Linux Mint. New > > software on old hardware solved nothing so the next step was a new > > motherboard (Gigabyte with integrated everything) and processor (AMD > > X4 something or other). This cured all of Windows 7's ills. The Linux > > Mint Debian Edition partition mostly works nicely EXCEPT FOR SOUND. > > I?ve been googling and poking at this problem without success. In one > > of the posts I read, ?In Linux, sound either works or it?ll drive you > > crazy trying to make it work.? > > > > I chose Linux Mint Debian Edition over Ubuntu even though I?ve been a > > happy Ubuntu user since about 8.04 for a few reasons: DE is supposed > > to be a bit lighter on the CPU than some other flavours; it?s a > > rolling release so I hoped to avoid periodic reinstallations; and > > there?s increasing criticism of arrogance and megalomania at Canonical > > ? the initials, interestingly, are MS. Yesterday evening I had the > > bright (?) idea of trying a handy Ubuntu 12.04 LTS AMD 64-bit LiveCD. > > Sound WORKS! > > > > Which brings us back to the question: press on or go back? > > > > This isn't a request for help with DE sound. I know there'd be shouts > > of "Not the place for that!" (Of course, if someone has universal and > > foolproof solution to my problems I'm all ears.) But I thought it > > might be worth sounding out (sorry!) the group on the relative merits > > of Ubuntu, Linux Mint Debian Edition or other editions, or other Linux > > flavours for someone who is not scared of the command line and editing > > configuration files but whose Linux knowledge is not deep. > > > > (Also with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS at end-of-life in a few days, there are a > > few other machines for which I need to pick a migration path sometime > > soon.) > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > John Martin > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 21:14:57 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 17:14:57 -0400 Subject: press on or go back? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130502211457.GI28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 03:04:21PM -0400, John Martin wrote: > Any thoughts between Linux Mint Debian Edition and Ubuntu 12.04 LTS? Well those are two rather different options. LMDE is a rolling updates system that will continually have new stuff come out for it. Ubuntu LTS is a don't change anything except security issues and other major bugs for many years. > After much suffering over the last year with an older machine running > Windows 7 I did two things: > > 1. Picked up a very nice new Windows 8 machine (making my wife happy) > (and StartIsBack making me happy). I am not touching Windows 8 until Microsoft puts back a usable UI. > 2. With all the data backed up somewhere else, began a project to > rehabilitate the old machine. > > Starting from scratch I installed Windows 7 and Linux Mint. New > software on old hardware solved nothing so the next step was a new > motherboard (Gigabyte with integrated everything) and processor (AMD > X4 something or other). This cured all of Windows 7's ills. The Linux > Mint Debian Edition partition mostly works nicely EXCEPT FOR SOUND. > I?ve been googling and poking at this problem without success. In one > of the posts I read, ?In Linux, sound either works or it?ll drive you > crazy trying to make it work.? Interesting. I find sometimes killing pulseaudio with a vengence solves sound problems. Sometimes pulseaudio solves sound problems. I hate pulseaudio (it highly concerns me that udev is now part of systemd which is led in large part by the person responsible for pulseaudio). > I chose Linux Mint Debian Edition over Ubuntu even though I?ve been a > happy Ubuntu user since about 8.04 for a few reasons: DE is supposed > to be a bit lighter on the CPU than some other flavours; it?s a > rolling release so I hoped to avoid periodic reinstallations; and > there?s increasing criticism of arrogance and megalomania at Canonical > ? the initials, interestingly, are MS. Yesterday evening I had the > bright (?) idea of trying a handy Ubuntu 12.04 LTS AMD 64-bit LiveCD. > Sound WORKS! Reinstalling is certainly something I haven't had to do for over a decade now. > Which brings us back to the question: press on or go back? > > This isn't a request for help with DE sound. I know there'd be shouts > of "Not the place for that!" (Of course, if someone has universal and > foolproof solution to my problems I'm all ears.) But I thought it > might be worth sounding out (sorry!) the group on the relative merits > of Ubuntu, Linux Mint Debian Edition or other editions, or other Linux > flavours for someone who is not scared of the command line and editing > configuration files but whose Linux knowledge is not deep. Why isn't this the place for that? But no there is no single fix for sound problems. If there was, the system would have come with that already done. Sometimes some systems just happened to be designed differently than intended by the chip designer resulting in tweaks having to be done. > (Also with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS at end-of-life in a few days, there are a > few other machines for which I need to pick a migration path sometime > soon.) I certainly recommend LMDE to people that don't want to have to deal with as much setup and choosing packages as plain Debian requires. I don't imagine fixing the sound issue should be that hard. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 21:26:41 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 17:26:41 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 2 May 2013 08:47, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Brad Fonseca wrote: >> I'm hoping the folks on this list might be able to help me with a >> suggestion. I'm looking to move to a new Linux distribution. >> >> I have been using the Mandriva distribution for a number years since it >> was called Mandrake and it was in version 8.0. Recently, I have been happily >> using Mandriva 2011.0 ("Hydrogen"). I just discovered that the home user >> version of Mandriva (Mandriva Powerpack 20xx) is no longer being supported >> or updated (my update manager is no longer receiving updates) as it has >> reached its end of life. In addition, Mandriva has taken the decision to >> focus on their corporate products and are no longer producing a home >> version. >> >> I have determined that there are a couple forks that have started since >> the Open Mandriva (http://www.openmandriva.org), which just got started >> earlier this year, and Mageia (http://www.mageia.org), which started in >> September 2010 and has had two major releases. >> >> Now that you have the background, I have a few questions that I'm hoping >> to have answered: >> >> 1. What is this group's opinion of either Open Mandriva or Mageia? Would >> it make sense to move to one of these distributions seeing as they are forks >> of a distribution I am very familiar with? >> >> 2. If I wanted to try a new distribution what is the recommendation of >> this group? I would like a distribution that will be the least troublesome >> (e.g. stable) and will support the most peripherals. I use Chrome as my >> browser so I don't expect too much issue there. I'm a hobby coder so having >> access to a decent set of IDEs would be nice, especially ones supporting >> Python. I currently use Dr. Python as I like the interface and I'm really >> just trying to practise things I'm learning in Python currently. Having an >> IDE that would support other programming languages would be nice too. I'm >> used to using a "Package Manager" to both update my system and add new >> applications so I would prefer to use a distribution that provides this >> feature >> >> Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. I know the discussion can >> get quite heated when it comes to favoured distributions. I hoping that the >> suggestions put forward will take into account my few requirements. >> >> Thanks, >> > > I used to use Mandriva, many eons ago it seems now. > > I tried Ubuntu, but didn't like it. The whole 'release' thing was exactly > what I hated about Mandriva. I wanted something, as you describe it, 'least > troublesome'. There is only one that really exemplifies that description: > Debian. In particular, Debian Unstable is really really great. Unstable, it > really needs to be mentioned, does NOT refer to it's behaviour. Unstable > means that the packages can change a lot, ie. there will sometimes be a lot > of updates. Anyone who runs Debian can tell you, they literally never have > the slightest problem with updates. I ran a Debian Unstable on my desktop > for years and years and never had an issue (excluding the ones I caused > myself of course, I am not an expert or anything). > > Debian. Seriously. It's the best. Not a fanboy, have nothing against any > other distro or what they might want to achieve, but if you want zero > trouble, Debian is the one. I have to disagree with the recommendation for unstable. My experience with it suggested the name was reasonably apt (if you'll pardon the unintended pun). In only about six months of using it (admittedly several years ago), I saw several programs break - as in, unusable for days or weeks until a new version came along. I was without sound for a week and a half because a package was put into unstable that didn't agree with my particular sound card. Bug reports were filed, fixes were made ... Unless you want this type of experience, I'd suggest that "testing" is a better compromise of stability and reasonably-up-to-date. If you're desperate to have the very latest in some particular package I'd still suggest testing plus learning about package pinning. Mint-Debian has also sounded good and probably more user-friendly, but I haven't tried it. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 21:46:46 2013 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 17:46:46 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > I have to disagree with the recommendation for unstable. My > experience with it suggested the name was reasonably apt... I had the same experience as Thomas, running unstable (*needing* to run it) without a hitch for about eight years. The fun began when I played with things in experimental (mostly the latest GNOME stuff). Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 22:12:49 2013 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 18:12:49 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <848v3xgbr0.fsf@free.fr> <20130502181252.GF28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1367520364.1538.YahooMailNeo@web161601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5182E4E1.9000804@lijour.net> I've been a big fan of Mandrake/Mandriva since about 1998/99. I loved the urpmi suite of tools which brought apt-get sweetness to the rpm world. For me Mandriva hit the wall a couple of years ago when the upgrade introduced a brand new interface out of the blue. I had switched my wife to Linux a year ago and she was just starting to get comfortable with it. Business users don't care about fancy interfaces, they just want to find their way (the same way) back to their documents every single day. Also changes in the back-end made it harder for me to support it. For these reasons, I switched all my desktops to Linux Mint running Cinnamon. It's been great. (My wife had to go back to Windows because of office/partner pressure and some bloatware running through IE only, but she would have remained a happy Mint user if it were not for poorly designed software and lack of Linux knowledge from her partners.) Mint works really fine. I just bought a HP printer and I am happy to report that (once again) it is easier to configure in Linux than in Windows. In Mint, just add a printer and voil?! In Windows (7), you need the install disk and time to run though multiple wizards, without mentioning avoiding ads and useless offers. Lots of my former buddies are working in Mageia. That is the one I would try if I wanted to go back to the Mandrake/Mandriva way of life (and if only I had time). Marc On 13-05-02 03:02 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 2 May 2013, Brad Fonseca wrote: > >>> Some people think they are so funny don't they. Next they will be >>> recommending Gentoo or Arch to the poor user. Isn't having spent time >>> with Mandriva enough suffering? :) >> >> What was so terrible about Mandriva? > > Nothing; I've been using it quite happily for more than 10 years. > > I'll probably move to Debian or Mint Debian Edition soon. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 23:18:34 2013 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 19:18:34 -0400 Subject: press on or go back? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:32 PM, ted leslie wrote: > I think when people talk about mint, they really need to specify mint-ubuntu > or mint-debian. Ted, Definitely Linux Mint Debian Edition Cinnamon here. Windows 7 sound works. Ubuntu 12.04 LTS from LiveCD sound works. Linux Mint Cinnamon 14.1 from LiveCD sound works. (All on the same hardware.) So obvious issues like connections are out. > [. . .] For sound debugging: > make sure you have your volumes appropriate for the input and the master. > There are options to make sure you switch to the desired type of input. That seems to be OK. > Check your dmesg. Did that. Don't know what I'm looking for! > ps ax | grep pulse - is it running? johnm at woll07 ~ $ ps ax | grep pulse 3639 ? S In my experience over the years, I agree, usually works, or doesn't, and > when it doesn't you usually find google info about card model specific > issues. My cards are (apparently): johnm at woll07 ~ $ lspci -v | grep -A 6 Audio 00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) Subsystem: Giga-byte Technology Device a002 Flags: bus master, slow devsel, latency 32, IRQ 16 Memory at fe024000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K] Capabilities: Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel -- 01:05.1 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI RS780 HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 3000-3300 Series] Subsystem: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI RS780 HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 3000-3300 Series] Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 19 Memory at fdafc000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K] Capabilities: Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel I'm less interested in the second - not connecting to anything HDMI. > [. . .] I went into package management and selected "paman" and that gives me > the pulse manager. You may want to install that to help see at what level > the issue is occurring. I have had in the past issue ranging from simply having the > sound output in the wrong connector, to simply problematic card drivers. paman now installed. When I run the PulseAudio Volume Meter I can see sound happening when I go to a web radio station. Don't know what I'm looking for in the PulseAudio Manager. I also see a PulseAudio plugin in the Sound window that came installed. Still hearing nothing. We can move this debugging stuff to another thread. I take heart from Lennart's "Why isn't this the place for that?" Thanks. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 2 23:37:09 2013 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 19:37:09 -0400 Subject: press on or go back? In-Reply-To: <20130502211457.GI28284-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130502211457.GI28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 03:04:21PM -0400, John Martin wrote: >> Any thoughts between Linux Mint Debian Edition and Ubuntu 12.04 LTS? > > Well those are two rather different options. LMDE is a rolling updates > system that will continually have new stuff come out for it. Ubuntu LTS > is a don't change anything except security issues and other major bugs > for many years. Thanks Lennart. That rather suggests that Ubuntu 12.04 LTS or Linux Mint 13 Maya might be good options for the four or so machines I support at the office. Many years means April 2017 in both cases. >> 1. Picked up a very nice new Windows 8 machine [. . .] > > I am not touching Windows 8 until Microsoft puts back a usable UI. Almost nothing has changed in the desktop. StartIsBack (and presumably other contenders) gets you straight there. >> [. . .] The Linux >> Mint Debian Edition partition mostly works nicely EXCEPT FOR SOUND. > > Interesting. I find sometimes killing pulseaudio with a vengence solves > sound problems. Sometimes pulseaudio solves sound problems. I hate > pulseaudio (it highly concerns me that udev is now part of systemd which > is led in large part by the person responsible for pulseaudio). Meaning stopping and starting the process? Or expunging the entire edifice? Should I expect it to solve itself as updates come along? I get the impression that with Debian things can and do stop working then start working again. >> I chose Linux Mint Debian Edition over Ubuntu even though I?ve been a >> happy Ubuntu user since about 8.04 for a few reasons: DE is supposed >> to be a bit lighter on the CPU than some other flavours; it?s a >> rolling release so I hoped to avoid periodic reinstallations; and >> there?s increasing criticism of arrogance and megalomania at Canonical >> ? the initials, interestingly, are MS. Yesterday evening I had the >> bright (?) idea of trying a handy Ubuntu 12.04 LTS AMD 64-bit LiveCD. >> Sound WORKS! > > Reinstalling is certainly something I haven't had to do for over a > decade now. What I hoped for. Seems I'm not ready though for working through these initial specific problems. >> This isn't a request for help with DE sound. [. . .] > > Why isn't this the place for that? Thanks. > I certainly recommend LMDE to people that don't want to have to deal > with as much setup and choosing packages as plain Debian requires. > > I don't imagine fixing the sound issue should be that hard. Let's hope. Again, thanks. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 3 08:25:44 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 04:25:44 -0400 Subject: Pogoplug Mobile -- WTF? In-Reply-To: <5182821D.9020006-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20130502073435.GA31070@node1.localdomain> <518277F8.9090905@ss.org> <5182821D.9020006@ss.org> Message-ID: <20130503082544.GA11460@node1.localdomain> On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 11:11:25AM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 05/02/2013 10:28 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > >On 05/02/2013 03:34 AM, William Park wrote: > >>Questions: > >> > >>1. It seems that you have to connect to their website while it's > >> connected, so that they can locate the device and "activate" it. > >> What if they want to do other things on my computer? > > > >So, the pogoplug devices are a basically a small arm computer that's job > >is to get your storage devices onto the internet. From there their > >software (both on the plug and in the cloud) takes away the hard part of > >NAT and port forwarding to make is accessible to anywhere. > > William, > > I re-read this question and I'm not quite sure I understand it any more. > > From my understanding, and use of the service, the only thing they > do on 'your' computer is present a website. All the real work is > done on the device and the cloud service providing the website. > > Was that what you were asking about? I was scratching my head... Why do they need me to connect/activate the device? All I want is to access its attached USB disk over the local network. Background: Right now, all my disks (both in use and backup) are in my tower. It's the cheapest initial cost. But, having the tower on all the time, electricity bill is slowly eating up that saving. 8-bay NAS is ridiculously expensive. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 3 12:15:04 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 08:15:04 -0400 Subject: Fake bomb detector seller jailed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2013-05-02 10:17 AM, "William Muriithi" wrote: > > Hi, > > I am puzzled by this story a bit. It would make sense if this guy tricked individuals but how did he manage to trick organization like UN? Don't they do any test before procurement? Seriously, I don't find him odd, there is a lot like him on the world. I find the fact people are willing to spend that kind of money on faith odd. > > How can one explain it? It sound too good not to raise bullshit alarm if one had to pitch it to me, so that can't be it. Must be missing something. > > Fake bomb detector seller jailed http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22380368 > It is not at all difficult to fool people. The US invaded Iraq on completely false premises. Colin Powell convinced the UN that Hussein had terrifying weapons of mass destruction, when every credible expert and scientist said this was nonsense. This is, if anything, the foundation of modern capitalism. Far more money is spent on lying to people (advertising, PR), than on actual innovation or invention. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 3 14:33:00 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 10:33:00 -0400 Subject: press on or go back? In-Reply-To: References: <20130502211457.GI28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130503143300.GJ28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 07:37:09PM -0400, John Martin wrote: > Thanks Lennart. That rather suggests that Ubuntu 12.04 LTS or Linux > Mint 13 Maya might be good options for the four or so machines I > support at the office. Many years means April 2017 in both cases. I like the rolling update idea myself, which is probably why I tend to run Debian unstable on my desktop machines. > Almost nothing has changed in the desktop. StartIsBack (and presumably > other contenders) gets you straight there. I don't want to have to get 3rd party software just to get the UI working. Microsoft has to admit they fucked up and fix it. And the magic corners is a change to the desktop. > Meaning stopping and starting the process? Or expunging the entire > edifice? Should I expect it to solve itself as updates come along? I > get the impression that with Debian things can and do stop working > then start working again. On some machines I have purged pulseaudio from existence. Now if you see stuff in the pulse audio volume thing, then that's a start I guess. Have you checked that the volume isn't muted in alsamixer? Often alsa defaults to mute master. You did plug in and power on the speakers right? And they are connected to the right jack. I guess if they work with ubuntu then probably yes. > What I hoped for. Seems I'm not ready though for working through these > initial specific problems. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri May 3 15:16:26 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Fri, 03 May 2013 11:16:26 -0400 Subject: Pogoplug Mobile -- WTF? In-Reply-To: <20130503082544.GA11460-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130502073435.GA31070@node1.localdomain> <518277F8.9090905@ss.org> <5182821D.9020006@ss.org> <20130503082544.GA11460@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <5183D4CA.9010602@ss.org> On 05/03/2013 04:25 AM, William Park wrote: [...] > > I was scratching my head... Why do they need me to connect/activate the > device? All I want is to access its attached USB disk over the local > network. Ah, yes. Think of the Pogoplug as different product category, an 'Internet'-NAS, aka, 'run it yourself' cloud storage. > Background: Right now, all my disks (both in use and backup) are in my > tower. It's the cheapest initial cost. But, having the tower on all > the time, electricity bill is slowly eating up that saving. 8-bay NAS > is ridiculously expensive. Yes they are, but that's because their a specialized product. If I had a recommendation for a good arm system that had more then one SATA port I would recommend it. But alas, they don't exist yet. If your power conscious, look at the QNAP products, in the 4-8 bay range they tend to be ATOM based for lower power load. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stan-IWrolz/j94yY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri May 3 14:33:59 2013 From: stan-IWrolz/j94yY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Stan Witkowski) Date: Fri, 03 May 2013 10:33:59 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy modem reliability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130503152137.0C832A2D9A@lethe.ss.org> At 12:06 PM 2013-05-02, Alex Beamish wrote: >My girlfriend has been a Teksavvy customer for about five months, >and is currently having an issue with her modem. She has now been >without service for a few days; Bell visited and confirmed that the >outside wiring is fine. >I don't know the model number, but it's a black unit with green >lights, if that helps. Thoughts? >Alex 1) I have a Thompson Speedtouch ST516 V6 (a black unit with green lights) from Teksavvy, and have had Teksavvy DSL service since mid-1012. Both have worked flawlessly. Can you briefly swap in another modem to check? 2) Um, er, OK, I don't know about anyone else, but in a TECHNICAL MAILING LIST I personally would be ashamed to say "...it's a black unit with green lights" because it could lead to getting back replies like "the purple ones with amber lights work real good..." Stan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 3 15:56:09 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 11:56:09 -0400 Subject: press on or go back? In-Reply-To: <20130503143300.GJ28284-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130502211457.GI28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130503143300.GJ28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130503155609.GA13993@waltdnes.org> On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 10:33:00AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > On some machines I have purged pulseaudio from existence. As of GNOME 3.8 you'll have to purge GNOME to accomplish that. Yes, pulseadio will be part of GNOME. Note my sig. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 3 18:09:34 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 14:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: press on or go back? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: John Martin | My cards are (apparently): | | johnm at woll07 ~ $ lspci -v | grep -A 6 Audio | 00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SBx00 | Azalia (Intel HDA) | Subsystem: Giga-byte Technology Device a002 | Flags: bus master, slow devsel, latency 32, IRQ 16 | Memory at fe024000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K] | Capabilities: | Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel | | -- | 01:05.1 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI RS780 HDMI | Audio [Radeon HD 3000-3300 Series] | Subsystem: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI RS780 HDMI Audio | [Radeon HD 3000-3300 Series] | Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 19 | Memory at fdafc000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K] | Capabilities: | Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel | | I'm less interested in the second - not connecting to anything HDMI. Is there a chance that your Pulse Audio sound is routed to the video card's sound device rather than the motherboard's? I happen to be using KDE under Fedora 18 at the moment, so my situation isn't the same, but KMix "Select Master Channel" gives me Radio buttons to select either "HDA ATI HDMI Digital Stereo (HDMI)" or "Built-in Audio Analog Stereo". (I normally use Gnome but it isn't stable due to a set of bugs in code that is beyond my ken. They actually affect KDE too, but less frequently. The bugs are upstream of Fedora.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 3 19:38:05 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:38:05 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Celebrate Day Against DRM - Save 50% on *all* Ebooks & Videos. Today only. In-Reply-To: <1367607023.7787.0.375035-HpEIymqFz0ygfV3Yru/wKg@public.gmane.org> References: <1367607023.7787.0.375035@post.oreilly.com> Message-ID: FYI. I don't usually forward ads, but this one seems worthwhile. Apologies to those who are offended by this. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: O'Reilly Media Date: 3 May 2013 14:50 Subject: Celebrate Day Against DRM - Save 50% on *all* Ebooks & Videos. Today only. To: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org ** Save 50% on *all* ebooks & videos (View in browser) [image: O'Reilly Media] One Day Only In Celebration of *Day Against DRM* Save 50% on ALL Ebooks & Videos *(Save 60% on orders over $100)* Having the ability to *download files at your convenience, store them on all your devices, or share them* with a friend or colleague as you would a print book is liberating, and *is how it should be*. For one day only, you can *SAVE 50% on all ebooks and videos* from oreilly.com, including titles from O'Reilly Media, Wrox, Morgan Kaufmann, Microsoft Press, Rosenfeld Media, No Starch, Rocky Nook, and many more. Ebooks from oreilly.comare *DRM-free*. You get *free lifetime access, multiple file formats, free updates.* Sync with Dropbox ? your files, anywhere. *Use discount code: DRM2013* Browse Titles ? [image: Soldiers] Deal expires May 3, 2013 at 11:59pm PT and cannot be combined with other offers. Offer does not apply to Print, or "Print & Ebook" bundle pricing. Spreading the knowledge of innovators oreilly.com You are receiving this message because you purchased directly from O'Reilly or registered titles. Keep up on all things O'Reilly by signing up for our *email alerts and newsletters* . To ensure delivery to your inbox (not bulk or junk folders), please add * oreilly-HpEIymqFz0ygfV3Yru/wKg at public.gmane.org* to your address book. To unsubscribe from all email announcements from O'Reilly, click here . O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472 (707) 827-7000 -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Fri May 3 20:05:42 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 16:05:42 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Celebrate Day Against DRM - Save 50% on *all* Ebooks & Videos. Today only. In-Reply-To: References: <1367607023.7787.0.375035@post.oreilly.com> Message-ID: I've found that I can access a lot of the O'Reilly books through the Toronto Public Library website's access to the Safari site. Usually the most popular ones are a "trial" copy which has 2/3rds of the book blanked out, but I've managed to read whole books on there too. Also, you can't download anything so you can only read why you're connected. -Tim On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > FYI. > > I don't usually forward ads, but this one seems worthwhile. > > Apologies to those who are offended by this. > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: O'Reilly Media > Date: 3 May 2013 14:50 > Subject: Celebrate Day Against DRM - Save 50% on *all* Ebooks & Videos. > Today only. > To: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org > > > ** > > Save 50% on *all* ebooks & videos (View in browser) > > [image: O'Reilly Media] One Day Only > In Celebration of *Day Against DRM* Save 50% on ALL Ebooks & Videos > *(Save 60% on orders over $100)* > > Having the ability to *download files at your convenience, store them on > all your devices, or share them* with a friend or colleague as you would > a print book is liberating, and *is how it should be*. > > For one day only, you can *SAVE 50% on all ebooks and videos* from > oreilly.com, > including titles from O'Reilly Media, Wrox, Morgan Kaufmann, Microsoft > Press, Rosenfeld Media, No Starch, Rocky Nook, and many more. > > Ebooks from oreilly.comare > *DRM-free*. You get *free lifetime access, multiple file formats, free > updates.* Sync with Dropbox ? your files, anywhere. > > *Use discount code: DRM2013* > Browse Titles ? [image: > Soldiers] > > Deal expires May 3, 2013 at 11:59pm PT and cannot be combined with other > offers. Offer does not apply to Print, or "Print & Ebook" bundle pricing. > Spreading the knowledge of innovators > oreilly.com > > You are receiving this message because you purchased directly from > O'Reilly or registered titles. Keep up on all things O'Reilly by signing up > for our *email alerts and newsletters* > . > > To ensure delivery to your inbox (not bulk or junk folders), please add * > oreilly-HpEIymqFz0ygfV3Yru/wKg at public.gmane.org* to your address book. > > To unsubscribe from all email announcements from O'Reilly, click here > . > > O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472 (707) > 827-7000 > > > > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > Toronto Canada > > Em: evan at telly dot org > Sk: evanleibovitch > Tw: el56 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 3 20:42:41 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 16:42:41 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Celebrate Day Against DRM - Save 50% on *all* Ebooks & Videos. Today only. In-Reply-To: References: <1367607023.7787.0.375035@post.oreilly.com> Message-ID: On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Tim Tisdall wrote: > I've found that I can access a lot of the O'Reilly books through the > Toronto Public Library website's access to the Safari site. Usually the > most popular ones are a "trial" copy which has 2/3rds of the book blanked > out, but I've managed to read whole books on there too. Also, you can't > download anything so you can only read why you're connected. > I'm closing in on 150 ebooks, just on my phone. About a third of these (43) are from O'Reilly (with the vast majority of the remainder coming from FeedBooks). I purchase from them - usually as 50% off deals - because of their stance on DRM. In fact, to-date I've only ever purchased ebooks from O'Reilly < https://twitter.com/psema4/status/330413722440978433> Were they DRM-laden, I wouldn't bother - I'd just get the physical books. I've considered getting a Safari subscription but prefer to own the books. I'd not want to loose access to these materials if I ever decided to unsubscribe from the service: to be certain, the ebooks I've purchased have helped me solve plenty of problems over the last few years. -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Fri May 3 22:47:21 2013 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (=?utf-8?B?ZGJtYWNnQGxvb2suY2E=?=) Date: Fri, 03 May 2013 18:47:21 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtUTFVHXTogVGVrc2F2dnkgbW9kZW0gcmVsaWFiaWxpdHk=?= Message-ID: Teksavvy should be able to confirm the reliability from their end. Sent from my HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "Alex Beamish" To: "TLUG" Subject: [TLUG]: Teksavvy modem reliability Date: Thu, May 2, 2013 12:06 My girlfriend has been a Teksavvy customer for about five months, and is currently having an issue with her modem. She has now been without service for a few days; Bell visited and confirmed that the outside wiring is fine. I don't know the model number, but it's a black unit with green lights, if that helps. Thoughts? Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 3 23:21:09 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 19:21:09 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy modem reliability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130503232109.GA14799@waltdnes.org> On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 12:06:23PM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote > My girlfriend has been a Teksavvy customer for about five months, > and is currently having an issue with her modem. She has now been > without service for a few days; Bell visited and confirmed that the > outside wiring is fine. I have a Thomson SpeedTouch ST546, which I got in November 2007, for 5/0.8 megabits ADSL. It's still running fine today at 7/1 megabits. The only problem is Bell's Stinger remote, which only syncs at 856 kbits up, netting only 700 kbits up on Speedtest.net. But you can't blame that on the modem. > I don't know the model number, but it's a black unit with green > lights, if that helps. Thoughts? Pick it up, turn it over, and read the label. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 4 20:43:02 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 16:43:02 -0400 Subject: ReleasePartyWheezy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130504204302.GA14495@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 09:29:53PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > This afternoon I was in at C'est What (67 Front Street East near > Church), and reserved a space in the south east corner of the pub May > 5th from 6:00 PM on until whenever. I've put up a note about this on > the Debian wiki. > > For those who don't follow Debian releases it should be noted that > unlike Ubuntu, who do a release every 6 months, the last time there > was a full new Debian release was February 6th, 2011. So, a new > release is hardly an every day event... How is the parking? Their website and Google map don't say anything about that! -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From self_same_self-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 4 22:04:41 2013 From: self_same_self-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sammy Lao) Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 15:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ReleasePartyWheezy In-Reply-To: <20130504204302.GA14495-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130504204302.GA14495@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <1367705081.45900.YahooMailNeo@web124704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> There is on street parking right on Front Street. But they are pretty busy. There is a loblaws nearby that has paid parking. A green P Parking just one street south of C'est What on the Esplande. It's probably a little cheaper if you took transit there. The walk from Union station is less than 10 minutes. >________________________________ > From: William Park >To: tlug >Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2013 4:43 PM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: ReleasePartyWheezy > > >On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 09:29:53PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >> This afternoon I was in at C'est What (67 Front Street East near >> Church), and reserved a space in the south east corner of the pub May >> 5th from 6:00 PM on until whenever. I've put up a note about this on >> the Debian wiki. >> >> For those who don't follow Debian releases it should be noted that >> unlike Ubuntu, who do a release every 6 months, the last time there >> was a full new Debian release was February 6th, 2011. So, a new >> release is hardly an every day event... > >How is the parking?? Their website and Google map don't say anything >about that! >-- >William >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 4 23:25:12 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 19:25:12 -0400 Subject: Release Party - Debian 7.0 "Wheezy" - Sunday May 5th, 6:00 PM Message-ID: Just to note that there will be a little, informal party to note the arrival of Debian 7.0 aka "Wheezy". The location will be C'est What (67 Front Street East near Church), and we have a reserved space in the south east corner of the pub May 5th from 6:00 PM on until whenever. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 5 11:13:40 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 07:13:40 -0400 Subject: Debian 7.0 "Wheezy" released Message-ID: Just to note, Debian 7.0 "Wheezy " has been released, with the official announcement being here: http://www.debian.org/News/2013/20130504 . Something I noticed of interest in the release party list is the number of release parties by country (see: http://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyWheezy). According to the list NO country is having more release parties than Canada and only India is tied with Canada. So, the Canadian cities that have release parties planned are Kitchener-Waterloo, Montreal, Quebec City, and Toronto. I have downloaded the CD images for the i386 and AMD64. I'll burn a few copies of each for this evening's party, but this is where the torrents come into their own... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 5 13:09:23 2013 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 09:09:23 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: Teksavvy modem reliability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It turns out modem is a ZyXel VSG 1432-B101; Teksavvy finally brought a replacement modem which also didn't work. Finally some bright light at Bell said, "Oh, there's an adjustment we can make at the C.O.", re- profiled the connection, and bingo, the Internet connection was back. Does anyone know what they might have adjusted? I have no idea how rare that might be, but it seems it would be much more convenient than sending a Bell truck out to the customer location. Cheers, Alex On May 3, 2013 6:48 PM, "dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org" wrote: > Teksavvy should be able to confirm the reliability from their end. > > Sent from my HTC > > ----- Reply message ----- > From: "Alex Beamish" > To: "TLUG" > Subject: [TLUG]: Teksavvy modem reliability > Date: Thu, May 2, 2013 12:06 > > > My girlfriend has been a Teksavvy customer for about five months, and is > currently having an issue with her modem. She has now been without service > for a few days; Bell visited and confirmed that the outside wiring is fine. > > I don't know the model number, but it's a black unit with green lights, if > that helps. Thoughts? > > Alex > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sun May 5 13:29:57 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 09:29:57 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: Teksavvy modem reliability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130505132957.GA6125@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> On Sun, May 05, 2013 at 09:09:23AM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > > Does anyone know what they might have adjusted? I have no idea how rare > that might be, but it seems it would be much more convenient than > sending a Bell truck out to the customer location. Take a speed test. You've bandwidth may have been downgraded. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 6 12:07:56 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 08:07:56 -0400 Subject: Release Party - Debian 7.0 "Wheezy" - Sunday May 5th, 6:00 PM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to note that there will be a little, informal party to note the > arrival of Debian 7.0 aka "Wheezy". > > The location will be C'est What (67 Front Street East near Church), > and we have a reserved space in the south east corner of the pub May > 5th from 6:00 PM on until whenever. Just to sum up, myself included. last night 6 people showed up at the pub, but as the last person to arrive, arrived after the first person had left the most we had around the table was 5 people. Still, I'm happy with that, and we should do it again next time there is a new Debian release (maybe 2 years from now :-) ). Mind you William Park was noting that he would have been happier if the venue had better parking (something to note for next time, but that likely will not be for a while). The Debian people take their release code names from the names of characters in the "Toy Story" movies. Last evening was for the release of "Wheezy" (named after the toy penguin first seen in the movie "Toy Story 2") and it has been announced that the next release will be "Jessie" after the cowgirl doll first seen in "Toy Story 2". > Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 6 13:33:23 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 09:33:23 -0400 Subject: Debian 7.0 "Wheezy" released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130506133323.GK28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 05, 2013 at 07:13:40AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to note, Debian 7.0 "Wheezy " has been released, with the > official announcement being here: > http://www.debian.org/News/2013/20130504 . > > Something I noticed of interest in the release party list is the > number of release parties by country (see: > http://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyWheezy). According to the list NO > country is having more release parties than Canada and only India is > tied with Canada. So, the Canadian cities that have release parties > planned are Kitchener-Waterloo, Montreal, Quebec City, and Toronto. > > I have downloaded the CD images for the i386 and AMD64. I'll burn a > few copies of each for this evening's party, but this is where the > torrents come into their own... This is Debian. Torrents are the worst method to use. Jigdo is the best if you absolutely have to have full images. Netinstall is of course what most people use and the most efficient. We run a local mirror at work, and jigdo can generate any disc image from that in seconds. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org Mon May 6 14:23:58 2013 From: paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 10:23:58 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord Part 2: The Waiting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi. Yes, the modem does basic NAT, DHCP and port forwarding. and has support for UPnP and DLNA. If you plug USB disks, sticks, and printers in, you can share them as well. The part that it doesn't do very well is anything else. For example, in my house, I have rules that limit Internet use based on time of day (small kids that can't get enough of Netflix, you know). It does have Wireless N, and in my experience, it worked pretty well. I saw on some forums that the wifi is not strong enough, but I didn't have that problem. The modem also allows you to define static DHCP addresses. Another neat feature that I've yet to see anywhere else, is a timed guest WIFI network. Lots of routers have the guest WIFI feature, where you can create a special network that can use the Internet but can't talk to any machines on your home LAN. The modem allows you to do that, but establish a time limit of how long it will be available. So for example, you want to allow Internet access during a party you're hosting, but want it automatically disabled after it's over. I ran with just the modem/router for a month or so, and it worked fine. But I needed the access control functionality. As far as the sharing, it works on the old Windows 95 "share password" feature, which didn't work at all on my Mac. The DLNA worked fine too; I was able to watch videos hosted on the modem (on a USB stick or disk) on my TV. Same for photos. Evan, it sounds like the modem will just be a direct replacement for what you had from Rogers, and should work fine. You really only have to be concerned if you do anything like I described. pm On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 11:16 AM, John Moniz wrote: > On 05/01/2013 07:56 AM, Paul Mora wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > My FTTN modem/router has arrived. They refused to deliver it to the >> door, it had to be picked up at a post office of my choosing. It's a >> Sagemcom 2864, plastered all over with Bell branding; it's apparently >> called the Bell "Connection Hub". Too-sparse manuals included, awaiting the >> Bell tech setup next week. Given that I'm going from Cable to DSL I have >> the luxury of a two week transition period of having both Internets up. >> > > One word of advise about the Sagemcom 2864. It works not only as your > modem but also has a GB switch and USB ports that can share printers and > disks on your network. It even has UPNP built in, so you could share media > to your TV or other devices. But the firmware is crap; there's no decent > firewalling in it, other than port forwarding. And, I'm told, the wireless > in it (it does wireless N) is also weak. > > If you want to use the router you were using in your cable setup, you > can simply leave the modem at it's unconfigured factory defaults, and plug > a cable in from port LAN1 on the modem, to your WAN port on the router. > Then configure all the Teksavvy PPPOE stuff on the router. The modem will > then work in passthrough mode, and you'll have the same flexibility as > before. > > pm > -- > *Paul Mora* > email: paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org > > Paul, just to clarify, if your recommendation is followed, will the > Sagemcom 2864 still be able to share printers and disks on the network > through the USB ports? > > Thanks, > > John. > -- *Paul Mora* email: paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 6 15:20:32 2013 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 11:20:32 -0400 Subject: Presentation (Next Monday): How to use OpenStreetMap data Message-ID: Dear All, The monthly meeting of Toronto area OpenStreetMap Enthusiasts (Mappy Hour) is always a laugh-riot of Open Data Goodness, Geo Expertise and baseless but entertaining rumours. Come and join the fun. In addition to the usual ad-hoc discussion and extensive question and answer period, this month we've added a formal presentation! How to use OpenStreetMap Data The presentation will cover the very basics of how to use OpenStreetMap data from - What is it? - What can I do with it? - How do I go about that effectively? - What are the cool kids doing with this data? The presentation is brief and aimed at all audiences, technical and non-technical, with an interest in learning more about OpenStreetMap data. The goal is to cover some of the common questions, dispel some of the common misunderstandings, and provide a solid base for your follow up questions and discussion afterwards. Who: You! Why: You love data and maps. When: Monday, 13 May 2013. 6:30 pm Where: C'est What, 67 Front Street East, near Church Map: http://osm.org/go/ZX6BrdRDH--?m Please RSVP by email off-list, or RSVP via the meetup page http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Toronto/events/113271092/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 6 19:33:28 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 15:33:28 -0400 Subject: Which RPM provide equivant utility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Afternoon, Do anyone know if Redhat based system offer the following utility? http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/natty/man1/tempfile.1.html I have tried looking for it through yum and not having any luck. Google seem to point to deb packages too. William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 6 19:45:13 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 15:45:13 -0400 Subject: Which RPM provide equivant utility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130506194513.GL28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 06, 2013 at 03:33:28PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Afternoon, > > Do anyone know if Redhat based system offer the following utility? > > http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/natty/man1/tempfile.1.html > > I have tried looking for it through yum and not having any luck. Google > seem to point to deb packages too. Hmm. debianutils: /bin/tempfile Not promising there. I saw some talk recently about moving the useful tools in debianutils that really weren't debian specific out into a seperate set of tools so others could use them too. Of course the man page says: tempfile is deprecated; you should use mktemp(1) instead. It is part of coreutils which is at http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/ and much more likely to exist in redhat. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 7 12:50:13 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 08:50:13 -0400 Subject: Which RPM provide equivant utility In-Reply-To: <20130506194513.GL28284-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130506194513.GL28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Thanks a lot guys > Hmm. > > debianutils: /bin/tempfile > > Not promising there. > Ya, the fact the package has the word Debian kind of imply absence in any rpm based distribution > I saw some talk recently about moving the useful tools in debianutils > that really weren't debian specific out into a seperate set of tools so > others could use them too. That would be nice. > > Of course the man page says: > > tempfile is deprecated; you should use mktemp(1) instead. > > It is part of coreutils which is at http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/ > and much more likely to exist in redhat. Hmm, did "rpm -ql coreutils" and it didn't show up there. > > -- > Len Sorensen > William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 7 15:17:24 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 11:17:24 -0400 Subject: Which RPM provide equivant utility In-Reply-To: References: <20130506194513.GL28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130507151724.GM28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 08:50:13AM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Hmm, did "rpm -ql coreutils" and it didn't show up there. Redhat mentions it: http://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHBA-2013-0703.html https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/acls/name/coreutils I think in RHEL5 and fedora before 17 it would be part of the old fileutils package instead. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 7 15:43:33 2013 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 11:43:33 -0400 Subject: press on or go back? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who lent a hand. We never solved it. I've replaced LMDE with the Ubuntu-based Linux Mint 14 Cinnamon. It was to have been the LTS release but the DVD was in the wrong place and I just wanted to move on. Sound works, yay! Maybe I can figure out how, in case I ever revisit LMDE. (I did cut and try a Debian 7 LiveDVD. Didn't even get to a desktop.) Thanks also for the LMDE v (Ubuntu) Mint v "other" comments. I also found the parallel "Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User" thread interesting. John Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Tue May 7 15:58:28 2013 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 11:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: press on or go back? In-Reply-To: <20130502211457.GI28284-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130502211457.GI28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 May 2013, Lennart Sorensen wrote: ... > I certainly recommend LMDE to people that don't want to have to deal > with as much setup and choosing packages as plain Debian requires. I just installed LMDE, and I have spent more time setting up and installing packages than I have needed with any other distro. Right now, I'm fighting with Apache to allow CGI scripts. I have finally got it to stop inserting included CGIs as text, but now I get [an error occurred while processing this directive]. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 7 16:14:41 2013 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 12:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Which RPM provide equivant utility In-Reply-To: <20130507151724.GM28284-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130507151724.GM28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 May 2013, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 08:50:13AM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > > Hmm, did "rpm -ql coreutils" and it didn't show up there. > > Redhat mentions it: > > http://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHBA-2013-0703.html > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/acls/name/coreutils > > I think in RHEL5 and fedora before 17 it would be part of the old > fileutils package instead. # yum search mktemp should get you the RPM package it is part of. An appropriate 'yum install' command should finish off the work. Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 7 18:32:28 2013 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 18:32:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Very Funny! Message-ID: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/07/verity_stob_/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 7 23:01:19 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 19:01:19 -0400 Subject: Which RPM provide equivant utility In-Reply-To: References: <20130507151724.GM28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hi > > > > Redhat mentions it: > > > > http://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHBA-2013-0703.html > > > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/acls/name/coreutils > > > > I think in RHEL5 and fedora before 17 it would be part of the old > > fileutils package instead. > Thanks for that pointer. Went through the errata and I noticed my rpm was older. After updating coreutils, I got the script utility > > # yum search mktemp > No, its bundled with other stuff, so searching if as above resulted no package found > should get you the RPM package it is part of. An appropriate 'yum > install' command should finish off the work. > > Terry > > -- > > Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE > Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed May 8 03:11:22 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 23:11:22 -0400 Subject: Digital photo de-noising software suggestions? Message-ID: <20130508031122.GA22033@waltdnes.org> Linux-based of course. I currently have rawtherapee, imagemagick, ufraw, gimp, and gmic on my disk, for various reasons. I took my Canon S100 out for a torture test today, to see how high I could push the ISO, before it got badly noisey. I noticed that the jpeg is a lot cleaner than the output from the RAW, probably due to in-camera processing. The question I have is how do I do it. For a comparison, compare the blue sky in the upper left corner of the 2 images... http://www.waltdnes.org/misc/IMG_0118.png (warning 25 megabytes) http://www.waltdnes.org/misc/IMG_0118.JPG (warning 3 megabytes) The png was obtained from the raw CR2 image by rawtherapee. The JPG comes direct from the camera. A Google search turns up technical discussions about "radius" of smoothing, which I don't understand. E.g. The ufraw-batch command has a "--wavelet-denoising-threshold" parameter. And the ufraw gimp plugin has a "Denoise" slider. Is there a simple layman's explanation somewhere, and a list of suggested parameters to use? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 8 03:32:35 2013 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 23:32:35 -0400 Subject: Digital photo de-noising software suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20130508031122.GA22033-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130508031122.GA22033@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Interesting! i chucked the png into a gimp despeckle and it improved it, but one has to then look at how much clarity may be taken away from sharpness of the needles, etc. Be interesting to see if you find a solution that works great. post results!. -tl On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Linux-based of course. I currently have rawtherapee, imagemagick, > ufraw, gimp, and gmic on my disk, for various reasons. I took my Canon > S100 out for a torture test today, to see how high I could push the ISO, > before it got badly noisey. I noticed that the jpeg is a lot cleaner > than the output from the RAW, probably due to in-camera processing. The > question I have is how do I do it. For a comparison, compare the blue > sky in the upper left corner of the 2 images... > http://www.waltdnes.org/misc/IMG_0118.png (warning 25 megabytes) > http://www.waltdnes.org/misc/IMG_0118.JPG (warning 3 megabytes) > > The png was obtained from the raw CR2 image by rawtherapee. The JPG > comes direct from the camera. A Google search turns up technical > discussions about "radius" of smoothing, which I don't understand. E.g. > The ufraw-batch command has a "--wavelet-denoising-threshold" parameter. > And the ufraw gimp plugin has a "Denoise" slider. Is there a simple > layman's explanation somewhere, and a list of suggested parameters to > use? > > -- > Walter Dnes > I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org Wed May 8 14:21:20 2013 From: maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org (Maxcess) Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 10:21:20 -0400 Subject: Digital photo de-noising software suggestions? Message-ID: <20130508142120.203230@gmx.com> Hello Walter I not sure what you are asking. It has always been my experience (others will argue) that the png images gives a more acurate colour and larger data size and can be more grainy. I opened both images up in my gimp and conpared the details. I then saved your png as a jpg in the same phyical size as your jpg and there was a comprise of both of your images in date size and colour detail and clarity (less grainy). FYI - in your png, you have more yellow. Look at the tree near the middle and the grass at the bottom. That is where its more noticable. Hense more realistic for the season. Abby ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Dnes Sent: 05/07/13 11:11 PM To: Toronto Linux Users Group Subject: [TLUG]: Digital photo de-noising software suggestions? Linux-based of course. I currently have rawtherapee, imagemagick, ufraw, gimp, and gmic on my disk, for various reasons. I took my Canon S100 out for a torture test today, to see how high I could push the ISO, before it got badly noisey. I noticed that the jpeg is a lot cleaner than the output from the RAW, probably due to in-camera processing. The question I have is how do I do it. For a comparison, compare the blue sky in the upper left corner of the 2 images... http://www.waltdnes.org/misc/IMG_0118.png (warning 25 megabytes) http://www.waltdnes.org/misc/IMG_0118.JPG (warning 3 megabytes) The png was obtained from the raw CR2 image by rawtherapee. The JPG comes direct from the camera. A Google search turns up technical discussions about "radius" of smoothing, which I don't understand. E.g. The ufraw-batch command has a "--wavelet-denoising-threshold" parameter. And the ufraw gimp plugin has a "Denoise" slider. Is there a simple layman's explanation somewhere, and a list of suggested parameters to use? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From acitta1-YDxpq3io04c at public.gmane.org Wed May 8 22:45:25 2013 From: acitta1-YDxpq3io04c at public.gmane.org (Gary Walsh) Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 18:45:25 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <518070B2.9090207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1368053125.16521.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2013-04-30 at 21:32 -0400, Brad Fonseca wrote: > Hello, > > I'm hoping the folks on this list might be able to help me with a > suggestion. I'm looking to move to a new Linux distribution. > I was a Mandrake/Mandriva user from the beginning. When I had some upgrade problems, I switched to Mageia. I have been very happy with it. If you liked Mandriva then you will like Mageia. I am currently running the development version, Cauldron. Mageia 3 will be released in a couple of weeks. Another distro to check out is the Ubuntu based Bodhi Linux which uses the Enlightenment v17 desktop. I have it on a secondary machine and quite like it. It is a distro that starts out with a minimal install and has a web page for easy install of other important packages like multimedia or office programs. It is well designed and I quite like it, though configuring Enlightenment takes some learning. -- Gary Walsh, Kitchener, ON -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 9 02:56:15 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 22:56:15 -0400 Subject: Digital photo de-noising software suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20130508031122.GA22033-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130508031122.GA22033@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <518B104F.8040200@gmail.com> On 13-05-07 11:11 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Linux-based of course. I currently have rawtherapee, imagemagick, > ufraw, gimp, and gmic on my disk G'MIC - formerly GRAYCstoration - is the totally overkill plugin for noise reduction under Gimp. It will do what you want, but is very fiddly to find all the settings you need. > A Google search turns up technical > discussions about "radius" of smoothing, which I don't understand. The larger the radius, the more pixels are integrated into forming the result pixels. Larger radii tend to smoosh out detail, but can have a pleasing effect on noise reduction. I'm not sure how really raw the raw files from the S100 are. I think they might be raw sensor dumps. Some cameras (notably some Nikon DSLRs) cheap out and compress CCD levels onto a curve, so you can never get really raw sensor data from them. Unless you're Steve Mann, of course, and get to poke at the camera firmware with a sharp stick ... Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 9 06:02:00 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 02:02:00 -0400 Subject: Guelph Raring Ringtail Release Party, Friday 10 May, 7pm at Diyode Message-ID: <518B3BD8.4080006@sobac.com> Start the week with a party[1,2], end the week with a party! On Friday, 10 May 2013 at 7:00pm Verdi R-D (@azend) is hosting an Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Release Party at the Diyode Community Workshop in Guelph. Some party snacks will be provided, but more are always welcome. Azend sez: "I'm thinking of doing a little demo session during the event to show what people are doing with Ubuntu and linux based operating systems." If you're doing something with Ubuntu, here's your chance to show off. And if there's something you want to do with Ubuntu, this is also your chance to ask. I've got some ISOs (32- and 64-bit Unity, 64-bit Gnome), so if you bring a DVD or USB stick I can make a bootable disk for you (in fact, that could be one of the demos). If you want another flavour (Edubuntu, Server, Studio, Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu) let me know soon! *What:* Guelph Raring Ringtail Release Party *When:* Friday, 10 May 2013 7:00pm to 10:00pm *Where:* Diyode Community Workshop, Unit B, 71 Wyndham St. S, Guelph, Ontario http://www.diyode.com/ *Map:* http://osm.org/go/ZXn_USJA--?m *Online:* http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-ca *Registration:* http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ca/2393-guelph-raring-ringtail-release-party/ (optional, but appreciated) --Bob. [1] Toronto Debian Release Party: http://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyWheezy/Canada/Toronto [2] KW Debian Release Party: http://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartyWheezy/Canada/Kitchener-Waterloo -- Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From paultarvydas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 9 16:00:42 2013 From: paultarvydas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Tarvydas) Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 12:00:42 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <20130502181346.GG28284-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <518079A2.3050901@gmail.com> <20130502181346.GG28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <518BC82A.2060904@gmail.com> On 13-05-02 02:13 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 08:51:17AM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> I'm sorry, I just have to ask...what was missing? I used Debian for years >> and I can't remember ever missing anything. Do you mean Flash or something? > Debian isn't missing anything. It just happens to default to installing > nothing which confuses some people. Correct. Although, it didn't "confuse" me. It just pissed me off. It was like using Windows. Every time I wanted to accomplish something, I needed to install an "update". By the time it was finished, I couldn't remember what it was I was trying to accomplish. It continuously got in my way. I've been developing real-time embedded software and compilers (not linux development, not webserver development / deployment) for a living for 30+ years. I need all of the tools to be in place. And the "office" and web-client stuff just needs to be there and not irritate me. And, I don't remember specifically what, but stuff in Wheezy and Squeeze simply didn't work / crashed (probably youtube related?). Mandriva was far superior in that regard (it was a stable, full-featured Windows workstation replacement), except for the drama. pt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 9 16:08:35 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 12:08:35 -0400 Subject: Linux Foundation Training Prepares the International Space Station for Linux Migration | Linux Foundation Training Message-ID: <518BCA03.8020101@rogers.com> https://training.linuxfoundation.org/why-our-linux-training/training-reviews/linux-foundation-training-prepares-the-international-space-station-for-linux-migration -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 9 22:18:17 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 18:18:17 -0400 Subject: Cache issues Message-ID: Evening Early this week, I redirected traffic going to port 80 and 443 to port 8080 and 8443. This is to get jboss running without root permission. All seemed to work fine, but had to reverse it today morning. The problem is, it looks like jboss is sending the browser URL with port 8443 embedded . This mean we have to open port 8443 on the external firewall for it to work. I had missed this during testing as I only accessed it from the office. Now the problem is, even after reverting the change above, the browser seem to be hitting port 8443. I have got them to clear the browser cache but the problem seem not to go away. We don't use proxy, so I have run out of ideas on what I am observing. Anyone seem this before? Or rather, would know how the browsers still hitting port 8443 randomly? Thanks for any pointer Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 10 01:18:21 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 21:18:21 -0400 Subject: Cache issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <518C4ADD.4080505@utoronto.ca> On 09/05/13 06:18 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Evening > > Early this week, I redirected traffic going to port 80 and 443 to port > 8080 and 8443. This is to get jboss running without root permission. > All seemed to work fine, but had to reverse it today morning. The > problem is, it looks like jboss is sending the browser URL with port > 8443 embedded . This mean we have to open port 8443 on the external > firewall for it to work. I had missed this during testing as I only > accessed it from the office. > > > Now the problem is, even after reverting the change above, the browser > seem to be hitting port 8443. I have got them to clear the browser > cache but the problem seem not to go away. We don't use proxy, so I > have run out of ideas on what I am observing. > > Anyone seem this before? Or rather, would know how the browsers still > hitting port 8443 randomly? Smells like a NAT rule somewhere to me. Can you capture a tcpdump of *all* traffic to and from a known misbehaving host? From the first SYN packet. It will be an issue seeing the traffic on port 8443, but by that point in the session the redirection should be evident somewhere, either in plain HTTP traffic if it is the browser/server, or in your firewall rules. It could also be a browser caching HSTS, but I'm not sure JBoss has that capability. Last thing you could try, and I suggest running any Java app server like this: put an nGinx or Apache in front of your servlet container. It gives you a huge amount of flexibility, is way easier to configure, lets you bind your webserver to ports 80 and 443, and you don't have to handle SSL in your container. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 10 18:18:10 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 14:18:10 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <518BC82A.2060904-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <518079A2.3050901@gmail.com> <20130502181346.GG28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <518BC82A.2060904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130510181810.GN28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 12:00:42PM -0400, Paul Tarvydas wrote: > Correct. > > Although, it didn't "confuse" me. It just pissed me off. > > It was like using Windows. It's almost the exact opposit of windows. Windows installs all the features by default and enables them all. Debian installs almost nothing and does not enable things by default. > Every time I wanted to accomplish something, I needed to install an > "update". By the time it was finished, I couldn't remember what it > was I was trying to accomplish. > > It continuously got in my way. > > I've been developing real-time embedded software and compilers (not > linux development, not webserver development / deployment) for a > living for 30+ years. I need all of the tools to be in place. And > the "office" and web-client stuff just needs to be there and not > irritate me. Unfortunately what you want is not what everyone wants in a system. > And, I don't remember specifically what, but stuff in Wheezy and > Squeeze simply didn't work / crashed (probably youtube related?). > > Mandriva was far superior in that regard (it was a stable, > full-featured Windows workstation replacement), except for the > drama. Not that windows includes all those things by default either. Those are 3rd party applications. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 10 19:18:45 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 15:18:45 -0400 Subject: Debugging - Linux, Eclipse, JVM & Chromium Message-ID: Hi all, For the past year or so I've been working with TI Canada on their Code Composer Studio[1] product. More specifically, I was tapped to help with the GUI Composer[2] component which is a GUI generator based on Maqetta[3]. Because the default SWT browser is an old Xulrunner (Firefox 10), a few months back we started trying to embed Chromium in the product. Everything "just works" under Windows. Unfortunately, this is not the case under Linux. We're getting what appear to be completely random crashes. What follows is an email I received earlier today that lays out the general situation. I'm not really a Java guy and my C/C++ debugging skills under Linux are extremely limited [the last time I used C and C++ (for anything serious) was under Windows 98]. If anyone could provide suggestions on squeezing more information from these segfaults, they would be most appreciated. TIA, - Scott. [-- quote --] I am seeing the crash randomly within the libjvm.so library. Bascially, whenever I open the chromium browser view, it sometime die right away or sometime in the future. I first thought that it is a race condition, but I couldn?t find out where the issue might be. Whenever it crash, there is little to no stackframe available. So, this might not be the chromium code. So, I search the web and people have run into similar issue with eclipse, see . >From this bug, people says to workaround the issue, use ?Xint to tell the jvm to run in interpret mode. This seems to help a lot. I don?t see the crash, but things run a bit slower. Running thing slower might help to prevent the race condition? So, I am still clueless on how to debug the crash (segmentation fault). BTW, I used CDT to attach the java process and debug the chromium C code. I also created a simple SWT/Java (non-eclipse) app and host the chromium browser, no crash is observed. [-- /quote --] [1] [2] [3] -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 10 21:06:46 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 17:06:46 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <20130510181810.GN28284-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <518079A2.3050901@gmail.com> <20130502181346.GG28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <518BC82A.2060904@gmail.com> <20130510181810.GN28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 12:00:42PM -0400, Paul Tarvydas wrote: > > Correct. > > > > Although, it didn't "confuse" me. It just pissed me off. > > > > It was like using Windows. > > It's almost the exact opposit of windows. Windows installs all the > features by default and enables them all. Debian installs almost nothing > and does not enable things by default. > It might technically be "opposite," but it does not amaze me that someone might find some way in which it appears to be similar in behaviour. > Every time I wanted to accomplish something, I needed to install an > > "update". By the time it was finished, I couldn't remember what it > > was I was trying to accomplish. > > > > It continuously got in my way. > > > > I've been developing real-time embedded software and compilers (not > > linux development, not webserver development / deployment) for a > > living for 30+ years. I need all of the tools to be in place. And > > the "office" and web-client stuff just needs to be there and not > > irritate me. > > Unfortunately what you want is not what everyone wants in a system. > Quite so. One of the ways to regard Debian is as a "distribution construction kit," and the sour grapes about Ubuntu's popularity as an instance of a distribution constructed using that kit is simultaneously understandable as well as annoying, because Shuttleworth is effectively doing what he was *supposed* to be able to do with Debian. The one place where I continue to find Ubuntu somewhat desirable is in that it works harder on having something that makes all the major sorts of functionality on laptops "sing and dance." I recently acquired a new laptop, and am running Debian testing on it; sadly, I have not yet been able to get WiFi working, despite spending some efforts on that. On Debian, "some efforts" have borne near-zero results (and since I have a nice Cat5 cable beside my easy chair, I haven't cared *that* much). In contrast, I think I'd have had near zero difficulty getting wireless going with near zero effort on Ubuntu. And it is rather irritating for there to be such a painful difference. An old, and still amusing, essay is the "Clueless Users Are Bad For Debian" one. The afterword of that essay suggests that the Right Thing is to have Debian derivatives that strive to be friendly for the "Clueless Users." Unfortunately, that will always engender a substantial amount of conflict, as: a) A derivative may take on a life of its own and try to ignore the progenitor (Ubuntu, I'm looking at you! :-)) b) There is sure to be some conflict as the downstream systems will generally prefer to have as little between them and the upstream, and would correspondingly prefer to push whatever they do into Debian whether or not that injures others involved. I'm not sure there are many cases of that. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 10 22:14:04 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 18:14:04 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: <20130510181810.GN28284-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <518079A2.3050901@gmail.com> <20130502181346.GG28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <518BC82A.2060904@gmail.com> <20130510181810.GN28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 12:00:42PM -0400, Paul Tarvydas wrote: > > Correct. > > > > Although, it didn't "confuse" me. It just pissed me off. > > > > It was like using Windows. > > It's almost the exact opposit of windows. Windows installs all the > features by default and enables them all. Debian installs almost nothing > and does not enable things by default. > > > Every time I wanted to accomplish something, I needed to install an > > "update". By the time it was finished, I couldn't remember what it > > was I was trying to accomplish. > > > > It continuously got in my way. > > > > I've been developing real-time embedded software and compilers (not > > linux development, not webserver development / deployment) for a > > living for 30+ years. I need all of the tools to be in place. And > > the "office" and web-client stuff just needs to be there and not > > irritate me. > > Unfortunately what you want is not what everyone wants in a system. > I'm still scratching my head trying to recall what might be considered 'missing' last time I did a Debian install. Other than video drivers and I guess Flash, I really can't think of anything else I had to do to have everything I needed, I mean for a basic working desktop computer and so on. And installing the NVidia stuff now is ridiculously easy on Debian. There was definitely nothing missing in terms of 'office and web-client stuff'. Unfortunately a lot of opinions are formed on vague or unsubstantiated impressions, rather than specific factual experiences. Looking back over this thread, I couldn't see one specific example of a flaw. That is annoying to me, considering the number of negative opinions. > > And, I don't remember specifically what, but stuff in Wheezy and > > Squeeze simply didn't work / crashed (probably youtube related?). > > > > Mandriva was far superior in that regard (it was a stable, > > full-featured Windows workstation replacement), except for the > > drama. > > Not that windows includes all those things by default either. Those are > 3rd party applications. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 10 22:25:13 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 18:25:13 -0400 Subject: Recommended Linux Distribution for Current Mandriva 2011.0 User In-Reply-To: References: <518070B2.9090207@rogers.com> <518079A2.3050901@gmail.com> <20130502181346.GG28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <518BC82A.2060904@gmail.com> <20130510181810.GN28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lennart Sorensen < > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 12:00:42PM -0400, Paul Tarvydas wrote: >> > Correct. >> > >> > Although, it didn't "confuse" me. It just pissed me off. >> > >> > It was like using Windows. >> >> It's almost the exact opposit of windows. Windows installs all the >> features by default and enables them all. Debian installs almost nothing >> and does not enable things by default. >> > > It might technically be "opposite," but it does not amaze me that someone > might find some way in which it appears to be similar in behaviour. > > > Every time I wanted to accomplish something, I needed to install an >> > "update". By the time it was finished, I couldn't remember what it >> > was I was trying to accomplish. >> > >> > It continuously got in my way. >> > >> > I've been developing real-time embedded software and compilers (not >> > linux development, not webserver development / deployment) for a >> > living for 30+ years. I need all of the tools to be in place. And >> > the "office" and web-client stuff just needs to be there and not >> > irritate me. >> >> Unfortunately what you want is not what everyone wants in a system. >> > > Quite so. > > One of the ways to regard Debian is as a "distribution construction kit," > and the sour grapes about Ubuntu's popularity as an instance of a > distribution constructed using that kit is simultaneously understandable > as well as annoying, because Shuttleworth is effectively doing what he > was *supposed* to be able to do with Debian. > > The one place where I continue to find Ubuntu somewhat desirable is > in that it works harder on having something that makes all the major > sorts of functionality on laptops "sing and dance." > > I recently acquired a new laptop, and am running Debian testing on it; > sadly, I have not yet been able to get WiFi working, despite spending > some efforts on that. On Debian, "some efforts" have borne near-zero > results (and since I have a nice Cat5 cable beside my easy chair, I > haven't cared *that* much). > > In contrast, I think I'd have had near zero difficulty getting wireless > going with near zero effort on Ubuntu. And it is rather irritating for > there > to be such a painful difference. > > An old, and still amusing, essay is the "Clueless Users Are Bad For > Debian" one. > It must be pretty old, because it's utter mythology. Installing and using Debian is not even remotely difficult. If you can manage to get a computer to boot from a CD, I can't imagine anything that would hold back even the most retarded user. If you can read, and click 'next', it's no different than installing any other OS. In fact, it might even be easier, since once it boots up for the first time you don't have to be worried about it being immediately hosed by some random, trivial malware. I avoided using Debian for years because of this mythology, only to find that it was far easier to use than any of the other distributions I had tried, simply because once I installed it I was done _forever_. It flawlessly updated itself every time and gave me access to whatever packages I needed without compiling or configuring or anything aggravating. Other than the relatively common complaint about firmware for weird proprietary wireless devices in laptops, I can't recall anyone offering a specific experience where Debian had failed to get everything working as needed. > The afterword of that essay suggests that the Right Thing is to have > Debian derivatives that strive to be friendly for the "Clueless Users." > Unfortunately, that will always engender a substantial amount of > conflict, as: > > a) A derivative may take on a life of its own and try to ignore the > progenitor (Ubuntu, I'm looking at you! :-)) > > b) There is sure to be some conflict as the downstream systems > will generally prefer to have as little between them and the upstream, > and would correspondingly prefer to push whatever they do into > Debian whether or not that injures others involved. I'm not sure > there are many cases of that. > -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 11 15:18:58 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 11:18:58 -0400 Subject: (unofficial, informal, proposed) PGP/GnuPG keysigning before GTALUG Meeting, May 14th In-Reply-To: <518DA2A8.2010803-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <518DA2A8.2010803@ss.org> Message-ID: <518E6162.50609@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm proposing an informal keysigning at the dinner get-together (6pm, Panera Bread, 322 Yonge Street) before the meeting. If you're interested, please bring suitable ID, and printed PGP key fingerprints. Confused? Read the (slightly overly long) Keysigning Party HOWTO http://cryptnet.net/fdp/crypto/keysigning_party/en/keysigning_party.html (and this would be an ?Informal Method Party?) Questions? Ask me. I've been at a couple of small key signing events, and so kind-of know what to do. Cheers, Stewart -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRjmFhAAoJEA7kB83rJlsGK/UP/2N/LTPtyDEVBp3cDlYf/+sG 5jPwTJOjYJxEYISS2Etvx2tqmlt7+bGIp6UAQUEI36HYhR+poPR2noDBr+k1Uy1E cKuGkl3HX2a/UAR6nJEwckz22shXu59StqXgF9zDMJV8kaa1bBZ0DKfj5Toot9Gd pi/5chl6ZS72sMcqllPPb+LSx60lbzzBFLGyPJfz1GWQgazs7CWVTH3He/4L73Lu ZxxoJ8Z8s+yvQvitXrYi83MfklsQeja2Jpj82wJvBOBmmUkwjyQFJxtADB6hbEKS RCWWQvHzGfgzjAJPQETfW7O9HF35rGkWwIREnVDpNpoJ9tU+0rFvkBAvPV3AQrzq 0v0i+y39IM7QwxEa0PDzsruYYY1Y0HAXFv3RbZ0SktZBcdvd3g6ZI7dYZ3Kv9zgv ARbr6IfezKW0RNc013DoM/hWXiJNrvW6uHSZDZvHCMei91ZrFOTMxcK2gvm8xbxq URFA85mzZDHU6/HovN5jHq0da/R7T5Q1ZkoxYX+O40a8boYj9Ubd3lMVoQr7YE5r 1mhPUiKroP6EQazUgFBpwAJcGs/SN/pY1BztphDEN0zc9Mxi3F8bdYrwmElPYzSs JtR5anuG4buPG5AnqDQNthxVVWH991y/czCW73UbIGJnfuQrYm6pvHtqTbahj/Qi zKRTDpGzJDSwQXWw4Xrf =F6dt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 11 20:59:49 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 16:59:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? Message-ID: I'm using Gnome on Fedora 18. I have a lot of windows and tabs. Firefox is huge, lots of windows, but Resident Size is only 1.5GiB out of 6 GiB that the hardware has. Nothing else is near that. Firefox is taking 50% of a core, but heck, I've got four cores. Nothing else is near that. I don't think that anything is eating disk or network bandwidth. So why is my desktop window manager laggy? Dragging a window or creating a new one isn't instant. What should I be monitoring / measuring? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat May 11 21:25:08 2013 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 17:25:08 -0400 Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 4:59 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm using Gnome on Fedora 18. > > I have a lot of windows and tabs. > > Firefox is huge, lots of windows, but Resident Size is only 1.5GiB out of > 6 GiB that the hardware has. Nothing else is near that. > > Firefox is taking 50% of a core, but heck, I've got four cores. Nothing > else is near that. > You only see averages there, so 50% of a core is not normal no matter how many tabs you have open. It's quite common for a broken Ad in Flash to suck-up your resources. I have problems with some sites like Yahoo and others, in that their ads, when left running a long time, will drain your resources. Try figuring out which open tabs in Firefox have long-running ads and try closing one by one until you see your CPU drop. You can also try disabling the Flash and other plugins and see if there is something else sucking up cpu. Best, -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 11 21:38:31 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 17:38:31 -0400 Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I have a lot of windows and tabs. > > Firefox is huge, lots of windows, but Resident Size is only 1.5GiB out of > 6 GiB that the hardware has. Nothing else is near that. > > Firefox is taking 50% of a core, but heck, I've got four cores. Nothing > else is near that. > > I don't think that anything is eating disk or network bandwidth. > I will take a guess its memory issues. Petty hard to be CPU or I/P bound on such a high end desktop just browsing. You should check again if you are swapping .. > So why is my desktop window manager laggy? Dragging a window or creating > a new one isn't instant. > > What should I be monitoring / measuring? > -- Can use cacti to see how your I/O is doing but may be too much for desktop William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 11 21:38:42 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 17:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Alejandro Imass | You only see averages there, so 50% of a core is not normal no matter | how many tabs you have open. It sure isn't far off normal in my personal experience. Crazy, I know. | It's quite common for a broken Ad in | Flash to suck-up your resources. I don't have Flash. I expect that javascript can do the same damage. | I have problems with some sites like | Yahoo and others, in that their ads, when left running a long time, | will drain your resources. Try figuring out which open tabs in Firefox | have long-running ads and try closing one by one until you see your | CPU drop. That sure is a lot of work and it would be inconvenient because I have (too many!) tabs open for a reason. My tabs are my todo list. Well, at least the part that involves web sites. | You can also try disabling the Flash and other plugins and | see if there is something else sucking up cpu. I wish FireFox could assign blame for resource use. Is there some way to ask it which site or tab is eating memory or CPU? Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 11 21:48:00 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 17:48:00 -0400 Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > That sure is a lot of work and it would be inconvenient because I have > (too many!) tabs open for a reason. > > My tabs are my todo list. Well, at least the part that involves web > sites. > You could bookmark them all, take the whole browser down and restart them all from the bookmark created earlier > | You can also try disabling the Flash and other plugins and > | see if there is something else sucking up cpu. > > I wish FireFox could assign blame for resource use. Is there some way > to ask it which site or tab is eating memory or CPU? > > Thanks. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 11 22:24:35 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 19:24:35 -0300 Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use NoScript on Firefox, and since then I noticed a SIZABLE difference on Firefox performance, and on system performance as well. Added AdBlockPlus to the mix and let all the problematic ads go away forever. I enable the ads on some sites I support (hackaday, lifehacker, slashdot, and so), and have little to no ads on every other site. I installed psd too (profile-sync-daemon). It copies your Firefox (and Opera, Chrome, and others) to memory, and opens everything faster. Backs up everything on disk every x minutes. And, lastly, I installed e4rat (ext4 reduced access times, or something like that), and can have a full blown Ubuntu 12.10 booting in less than 45 seconds, from power on to desktop full loaded. On a notebook powered by a low end i5 with 2gb ram and old hard disk. Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2013/5/11 William Muriithi > > > That sure is a lot of work and it would be inconvenient because I have > > (too many!) tabs open for a reason. > > > > My tabs are my todo list. Well, at least the part that involves web > > sites. > > > You could bookmark them all, take the whole browser down and restart them > all from the bookmark created earlier > > | You can also try disabling the Flash and other plugins and > > | see if there is something else sucking up cpu. > > > > I wish FireFox could assign blame for resource use. Is there some way > > to ask it which site or tab is eating memory or CPU? > > > > Thanks. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paultarvydas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 11 23:08:34 2013 From: paultarvydas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Tarvydas) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 19:08:34 -0400 Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <518ECF72.8030700@gmail.com> IIRC, I once tracked this behaviour down to the replacement for Flash, who's name I don't remember at the moment. There was a way to remove it and replace it with something that worked better... pt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 00:01:04 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 20:01:04 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key Message-ID: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> Quick question: do you use the Compose key on your Linux box much? I was pretty astounded to find out today that a group of users thought it was something that one should routinely disable on a new machine, and consequently they had no idea of its awesome multi-lingual/symbol entry powers. Stewart (who probably over?uses the Compose key ?) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 00:09:56 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 20:09:56 -0400 Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <518EDDD4.6000801@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Firefox is huge, lots of windows, but Resident Size is only 1.5GiB out of > 6 GiB that the hardware has. Nothing else is near that. I have also noticed that if I leave Firefox or Seamonkey up for a few days, they will bog down the system. The fix is to completely shut them down. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 00:18:22 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 20:18:22 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <518EDBC0.30101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <518EDFCE.7070306@rogers.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Quick question: do you use the Compose key on your Linux box much? No. I use the U.S International keyboard layout, which gives me several more characters and if necessary, I can switch to the Greek layout for stuff like ?. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 03:44:30 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 23:44:30 -0400 Subject: Wifi activation problem - HP 2000 Message-ID: I finally got around to properly struggling with the wifi issue with my new-ish laptop, and it's looking likely that there's a tough-to-surmount problem there. Initially, there was some question as to whether the apropos drivers were in place; I'm reasonably satisfied that I have all that I ought to need in the form of Debian + Linux 3.8 kernel + firmware-ralink package. The following thread on OpenSuSE describes the issues kind of relevant to it, from an OpenSuSE perspective; what's notable is that it appears to describe precisely my model, down to the exact model numbers and such in lspci output. http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/wireless/480447-ralink-wirless-driver-help.html My kernel knows about the network adapter, and indicates it has a driver prepped: root at hpaq:~# lspci -v | grep -10 01:00.0 | tail -11 01:00.0 Network controller: Ralink corp. Device 539b Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Device 18ed Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16 Memory at c2500000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3 Capabilities: [50] MSI: Enable- Count=1/32 Maskable- 64bit+ Capabilities: [70] Express Endpoint, MSI 00 Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting Capabilities: [140] Device Serial Number 00-00-7b-66-63-31-17-a4 Kernel driver in use: rt2800pci In that discussion thread, it was observed that earlier versions of the rt2800pci driver did not recognize this model of network adapter ("539b"); since the kernel driver is indicated to be in place, it sure seems like I'm on an apropos version of kernel such that it is recognized. Unfortunately, there's one more step, and I'm not seeing a resolution to it. I have added config to /etc/network/interfaces, but iwlist has a complaint: root at hpaq:~# iwlist wlan0 scan wlan0 Interface doesn't support scanning : Network is down The most relevant link found in spelunking was this one: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/ubuntu-63/wireless-became-disabled-how-do-i-enable-858357/ Indications are that there is a "hardware lock" in place, deactivating the adapter. On many systems, such a "lock" exists as a visible, togglable hardware switch. I used to see similar on the Thinkpad X60s that I use at work. Sadly, on my machine, the lock is handled via a "soft-key", essentially via running Windows, and pressing "Fn-F12", which would cause a little LED that is presently orange to switch to blue, and allow a different output than rfkill is showing: root at hpaq:~# rfkill list 1 1: hp-wifi: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: yes root at hpaq:~# rfkill unblock 1 root at hpaq:~# rfkill list 1 1: hp-wifi: Wireless LAN Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: yes I don't have any Windows install around, so can't reboot there to do a switcheroo. I see some suggestions that one might muss around in BIOS and find an option that would force wifi to stay on; that does not appear to be the case with this particular system. It is looking pretty likely, as consequence, that I'll need to grab a USB wireless adapter for those times I want wireless, which is unfortunate, but not too totally disastrous. If there is some mechanism other than rfkill (in the rfkill package) to switch that "hardware switch" (that isn't truly a hardware switch), 'twould be nice. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 04:15:18 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 00:15:18 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <518EDBC0.30101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> On 13-05-11 08:01 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Quick question: do you use the Compose key on your Linux box much? As I have no idea what a "Compose" key is on my keyboard I would have to say, no, it doesn't get used (if I have one). -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From s at sadiqs.com Sun May 12 04:17:37 2013 From: s at sadiqs.com (Sadiq Saif) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 00:17:37 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <518F1756.4050602-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <518F17E1.8050001@sadiqs.com> On 5/12/2013 0:15, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 13-05-11 08:01 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: >> Quick question: do you use the Compose key on your Linux box much? > > As I have no idea what a "Compose" key is on my keyboard I would have to > say, no, it doesn't get used (if I have one). > I believe he is talking about the AltGr key: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key -- Sadiq Saif -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 04:48:12 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 00:48:12 -0400 Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <518F1F0C.2030306@sobac.com> On 13-05-11 05:38 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I wish FireFox could assign blame for resource use. Is there some way > to ask it which site or tab is eating memory or CPU? Perhaps this may help you: type 'about:memory' in the address bar. At the bottom of the list of resources there are buttons to perform garbage collect, cycle collect, and minimize memory. 'about:cache' may give some useful info too. FWIW, I run Firefox with a bunch of addons like NoScript, AdBlockPlus, Ghostery, RequestPolicy, and others. My experience is similar, in that Firefox uses half a core (or more) and 1/4 of available memory. And then just to be insulting, Thunderbird uses that too. --Bob. Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting On 13-05-11 05:38 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Alejandro Imass > > | You only see averages there, so 50% of a core is not normal no matter > | how many tabs you have open. > > It sure isn't far off normal in my personal experience. Crazy, I > know. > > | It's quite common for a broken Ad in > | Flash to suck-up your resources. > > I don't have Flash. > > I expect that javascript can do the same damage. > > | I have problems with some sites like > | Yahoo and others, in that their ads, when left running a long time, > | will drain your resources. Try figuring out which open tabs in Firefox > | have long-running ads and try closing one by one until you see your > | CPU drop. > > That sure is a lot of work and it would be inconvenient because I have > (too many!) tabs open for a reason. > > My tabs are my todo list. Well, at least the part that involves web > sites. > > | You can also try disabling the Flash and other plugins and > | see if there is something else sucking up cpu. > > I wish FireFox could assign blame for resource use. Is there some way > to ask it which site or tab is eating memory or CPU? > > Thanks. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 06:56:36 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 02:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? (fwd) Message-ID: This is from David Collier-Brown. I think that the tlug mailing list server is still censoring him. This has been going on for a long time. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David Collier-Brown To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Cc: D. Hugh Redelmeier Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 18:30:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: why is my desktop sluggish? Reply-To: davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org On 05/11/2013 04:59 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm using Gnome on Fedora 18. > > I have a lot of windows and tabs. > > Firefox is huge, lots of windows, but Resident Size is only 1.5GiB out of > 6 GiB that the hardware has. Nothing else is near that. > > Firefox is taking 50% of a core, but heck, I've got four cores. Nothing > else is near that. > > I don't think that anything is eating disk or network bandwidth. > > So why is my desktop window manager laggy? Dragging a window or creating > a new one isn't instant. > > What should I be monitoring / measuring? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Consider it an X problem, and see if the X server is getting starved of anything and investigate what it's doing. Start watching all the operations (there's a client who's name I forget for that) and then move the mouse. By eye, you will be able to see if it's lagging from the log. Top -d 1 will tell you what part's running, or not running (;-)) My acer aspire had no trouble with 20 firefox tabs, and it's a netbook... --dave --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org | -- Mark Twain (416) 223-8968 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 08:23:05 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 04:23:05 -0400 Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130512082305.GA25125@toshiba.localdomain> I have same problem, even though I block Flash and Ads. My suspicion is Flash and Javascript, but can't be bothered. My solution is to kill Firefox (Ctrl-Q) and restart it. On restart, Firefox displays button to "restore" previous session. -- William On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 04:59:49PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm using Gnome on Fedora 18. > > I have a lot of windows and tabs. > > Firefox is huge, lots of windows, but Resident Size is only 1.5GiB out of > 6 GiB that the hardware has. Nothing else is near that. > > Firefox is taking 50% of a core, but heck, I've got four cores. Nothing > else is near that. > > I don't think that anything is eating disk or network bandwidth. > > So why is my desktop window manager laggy? Dragging a window or creating > a new one isn't instant. > > What should I be monitoring / measuring? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 12:17:39 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 08:17:39 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <518F1756.4050602-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <518F8863.8000405@rogers.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 13-05-11 08:01 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: >> Quick question: do you use the Compose key on your Linux box much? > > As I have no idea what a "Compose" key is on my keyboard I would have > to say, no, it doesn't get used (if I have one). > On my computer, it's the "Pause" key. If I press it, then =C, I get ?. Here's a list of characters you can get with the compose key: http://www.hermit.org/Linux/ComposeKeys.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 12:23:40 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 08:23:40 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <518F17E1.8050001-W7mmRt3Ql23QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> <518F17E1.8050001@sadiqs.com> Message-ID: <518F89CC.5090509@rogers.com> Sadiq Saif wrote: > On 5/12/2013 0:15, Kevin Cozens wrote: >> On 13-05-11 08:01 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: >>> Quick question: do you use the Compose key on your Linux box much? >> As I have no idea what a "Compose" key is on my keyboard I would have to >> say, no, it doesn't get used (if I have one). >> > I believe he is talking about the AltGr key: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key Not quite. The AltGr is similar in function to a shift key, for selecting other characters on a keyboard that supports them. For example, I have my computers configured to use the U.S. International layout and by using the right Alt key, I can select characters that are not on the U.S. Standard layout. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key#US_international -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 13:37:04 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 09:37:04 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <518F17E1.8050001-W7mmRt3Ql23QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> <518F17E1.8050001@sadiqs.com> Message-ID: <518F9B00.1090508@gmail.com> On 13-05-12 12:17 AM, Sadiq Saif wrote: > > I believe he is talking about the AltGr key: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key Nope, not the Alt Gr key, though I do have my Alt Gr key on this laptop set up as Compose. The Compose key is a dead key which combines the keys you press after it into a symbol or character not normally present on the keyboard. Some examples: Compose + 1st key 2nd key 3rd key Result ======= ======= ======= ====== ' a ? Letter a acute ` e ? Letter e grave " o ? Letter o umlaut s s ? Letter German sharp s / c ? Currency cent symbol = c ? Currency euro symbol " < ? Punctuation left double quote " > ? Punctuation right double quote - - - ? Punctuation em-dash . . ? Punctuation ellipsis - : ? Mathematics division o o ? Symbol degree - > ? Symbol right arrow There are many more. Many, many more: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libX11/plain/nls/en_US.UTF-8/Compose.pre The advantage that using Compose has over the US International layout + Alt Gr is that the key combinations used with Compose are somewhat more logical. Compose does require a bunch more typing, though. Finding the settings for the Compose key can be more involved than it should be. For instance, Ubuntu hides it under System Settings? ? Keyboard ? Layout Settings ? Options? cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 15:53:54 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 11:53:54 -0400 Subject: Wifi activation problem - HP 2000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Sadly, on my machine, the lock is handled via a "soft-key", essentially via running Windows, and pressing "Fn-F12", which would cause a little LED that is presently orange to switch to blue, and allow a different output than rfkill is showing: > > root at hpaq:~# rfkill list 1 > 1: hp-wifi: Wireless LAN > Soft blocked: no > Hard blocked: yes > root at hpaq:~# rfkill unblock 1 > root at hpaq:~# rfkill list 1 > 1: hp-wifi: Wireless LAN > Soft blocked: no > Hard blocked: yes > > I don't have any Windows install around, so can't reboot there to do a switcheroo. I see some suggestions that one might muss around in BIOS and find an option that would force wifi to stay on; that does not appear to be the case with this particular system. > > It is looking pretty likely, as consequence, that I'll need to grab a USB wireless adapter for those times I want wireless, which is unfortunate, but not too totally disastrous. > Crap, that kind of sucks. Which HP model is that? Would be good to name it so that others can avoid it. Kind of take up back to win modem times. > If there is some mechanism other than rfkill (in the rfkill package) to switch that "hardware switch" (that isn't truly a hardware switch), 'twould be nice. > -- > William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 16:56:31 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 12:56:31 -0400 Subject: Send and receive Enigma messages Message-ID: <518FC9BF.6030503@rogers.com> This will run in wine on Linux. Enigma World Code Group http://www.enigmaworldcodegroup.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 17:34:42 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 13:34:42 -0400 Subject: Send and receive Enigma messages In-Reply-To: <518FC9BF.6030503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518FC9BF.6030503@rogers.com> Message-ID: <518FD2B2.5030605@gmail.com> Next weekend at the Hamvention in Dayton, there's a stall where a dude sells refurbed Enigmas. They go for a cool $70-90,000 though. I went last year. It was a vast quantity of old electronics tat^H^H^Hvaluable equipment. Some pictures: http://scruss.com/blog/2012/05/22/hamvention-2012/ (I'm passing this year. Maybe I'll go in 2014.) Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 18:06:19 2013 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 14:06:19 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key Message-ID: I've been using compose for a while and like it. Previously, I would switch between keyboard layouts and compose seems to be better for my work-style. I guess I seldom need accents or special characters. From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 18:08:51 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 14:08:51 -0400 Subject: Send and receive Enigma messages In-Reply-To: <518FD2B2.5030605-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518FC9BF.6030503@rogers.com> <518FD2B2.5030605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <518FDAB3.2020903@rogers.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Next weekend at the Hamvention in Dayton, there's a stall where a dude > sells refurbed Enigmas. They go for a cool $70-90,000 though. > > I went last year. It was a vast quantity of old electronics > tat^H^H^Hvaluable equipment. Some pictures: > http://scruss.com/blog/2012/05/22/hamvention-2012/ > (I'm passing this year. Maybe I'll go in 2014.) > > I've never been to Dayton, though I used to overhaul those "real Teletypes". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 18:14:21 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 14:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wifi activation problem - HP 2000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | Sadly, on my machine, the lock is handled via a "soft-key", essentially via | running Windows, and pressing "Fn-F12", which would cause a little LED that | is presently orange to switch to blue, and allow a different output than | rfkill is showing: | | root at hpaq:~# rfkill list 1 | 1: hp-wifi: Wireless LAN | Soft blocked: no | Hard blocked: yes | root at hpaq:~# rfkill unblock 1 | root at hpaq:~# rfkill list 1 | 1: hp-wifi: Wireless LAN | Soft blocked: no | Hard blocked: yes | | I don't have any Windows install around, so can't reboot there to do a | switcheroo. Surely you got Windows and a license with the machine. If not, that would be exciting news. Can you press the Fn-F12 while in the CMOS setup screen? I wonder how the Fn-F12 code works. How about straight F12? Seems odd, but a web page suggested there was a toggle in the BIOS switching between Fn-F12 and plain F12. Makes not sense to me. At one point in time, I thought these were done by the BIOS in SMM. So that it should work, even in Linux. This might have been in APM days (long ago). The latest BIOS is F.26 (2013 Mar 8). Perhaps there are special ACPI calls for the driver to ask the BIOS to manipulate the hardware. For some notebook families, this kind of magic is handled by a Linux package. For example, there is such a package for thinkpads. I also think that such a package existed for Samsungs (and started bricking recent models. The user manual for your computer says: Using the wireless button The computer has a wireless button, one or more wireless devices, and one or two wireless lights, depending on the model. All of the wireless devices on your computer are enabled at the factory, so the wireless light is on (white) when you turn on the computer. The wireless light indicates the overall power state of your wireless devices, not the status of individual devices. If the wireless light is white, at least one wireless device is on. If the wireless light is amber, all wireless devices are off. Because the wireless devices are enabled at the fact ory, you can use the wireless button to turn on or turn off the wireless devices simultaneously This suggests that if you manage to turn the thing on, it should stay on across power downs. There is an HP Wireless Button Driver for Windows 8 on HP's web site. Perhaps you should read this message and maybe the whole thread (but most is irrelevant). This might help: Good luck! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 12 20:04:15 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 16:04:15 -0400 Subject: Wifi activation problem - HP 2000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 11:53 AM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > Sadly, on my machine, the lock is handled via a "soft-key", essentially via running Windows, and pressing "Fn-F12", which would cause a little LED that is presently orange to switch to blue, and allow a different output than rfkill is showing: > > > > root at hpaq:~# rfkill list 1 > > 1: hp-wifi: Wireless LAN > > Soft blocked: no > > Hard blocked: yes > > root at hpaq:~# rfkill unblock 1 > > root at hpaq:~# rfkill list 1 > > 1: hp-wifi: Wireless LAN > > Soft blocked: no > > Hard blocked: yes > > > > I don't have any Windows install around, so can't reboot there to do a switcheroo. I see some suggestions that one might muss around in BIOS and find an option that would force wifi to stay on; that does not appear to be the case with this particular system. > > > > It is looking pretty likely, as consequence, that I'll need to grab a USB wireless adapter for those times I want wireless, which is unfortunate, but not too totally disastrous. > > > Crap, that kind of sucks. Which HP model is that? Would be good to name it so that others can avoid it. Kind of take up back to win modem times. Annoying, indeed. http://linuxdatabases.info/info/hpaq.html The model is "HP 2000 2b53CA" Encouragingly, I wasn't too distant from feasible Wifi configuration... I picked up a TP-Link TL-WN727N this afternoon, on sale for $11.99, which happens to use the very same kernel driver as the built-in wireless adapter, and getting the WN727N required only that I run the substitution s/wlan0/wlan1/g on /etc/network/interfaces Immediately upon running "ifup wlan1", it was recognized, headed off to my DHCP server to get an address, and was, "shazam!", on the my network. (Indicating that the stanzas I had in /etc/network/interfaces were AOK, and that drivers were in good shape) Hugh has a couple of links to references to the "huh, Fn-F12 doesn't work!" problem; I saw other similar, none with meaningful answers. This seems likely to be an issue adversely affecting a number of laptops, so beware. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 06:41:27 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 02:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wifi activation problem - HP 2000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Win 8 HP Wireless Button Driver seems to be in the ACPI tree. That suggests to me that it bangs on some ACPI interface. - perhaps "strings" on the driver would get the names of the entrypoints - perhaps a disassembly of the ACPI firmware would show those entrypoints. It should be reasonably easy to tell which entrypoints are specific to HP notebooks. (Note: ACPI disassembly is easy and not as hairy as real machine-code.) The interface is probably dirt-simple. After all, it is just a binary switch. PS: I'm no Windows expert, but I think that you can install a Win 8 with MBR partitioning, and do so under the license that you were coerced into buying. It would be interesting to see if, at the cost of 40G of disk and an evening, you could deploy Win8 to flip that switch. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 06:46:55 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 02:46:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: duh -- mii-diag knows nothing about gigabyte ethernet Message-ID: I've been trying to figure out if my gig switch will actually negotiate gig speeds. I was puzzled why it didn't seem to. It turns out that mii-tool (and its relatives) haven't been updated to handle gigabyte speeds, or warn the user of this problem. Use ethtool instead. Except for some old, poorly supported cards: ethtool won't work and mii-* will. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 13:47:37 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 09:47:37 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 05/12/2013 02:06 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > I've been using compose for a while and like it. > > Previously, I would switch between keyboard layouts and compose seems to be better for my work-style. I guess I seldom need accents or special characters. N???'????T????.???)?m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 9:47 AM, John Moniz wrote: > On 05/12/2013 02:06 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > >> I've been using compose for a while and like it. >> > I apologize for the cruft in my recent post. It was unintentional. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 14:42:36 2013 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 10:42:36 -0400 Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I been tracking some display problems while upgrading Fedora from 16 thru 18 and while we have to disable nouveau and use nvidia's own drivers, this track fixed most of the symptoms you described under 17 and which had been mostly addressed as selinux permissions in F 18. This can be done through yum as explained here http://www.if-not-true-then-false.com/2013/fedora-18-nvidia-guide/ set selinux to permissive mode for this install to avoid issues. At this time for us there are re occurring errors in desktop switching. It looks like this may be an issue with colord carried forward from 17. When the gui switcher exits, a colour term is initialized with a quick "Manager" error displayed before the login gui takes over. Sometimes random images are pixilated and displayed as fragments on the screen and sometimes it hangs and we have to reboot. Recent updates seem to have corrected most of this for us, so as I say this looks like a colord hangover. So far so good for us, hope this helps. Russell On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 4:59 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm using Gnome on Fedora 18. > > I have a lot of windows and tabs. > > Firefox is huge, lots of windows, but Resident Size is only 1.5GiB out of > 6 GiB that the hardware has. Nothing else is near that. > > Firefox is taking 50% of a core, but heck, I've got four cores. Nothing > else is near that. > > I don't think that anything is eating disk or network bandwidth. > > So why is my desktop window manager laggy? Dragging a window or creating > a new one isn't instant. > > What should I be monitoring / measuring? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 16:24:15 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 12:24:15 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <518EDBC0.30101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130513162415.GA14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 08:01:04PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Quick question: do you use the Compose key on your Linux box much? Yes. I tend to use the 'menu' key for it, although my new laptop doesn't have that key so I am contemplating what the best option is to replace it. > I was pretty astounded to find out today that a group of users thought > it was something that one should routinely disable on a new machine, and > consequently they had no idea of its awesome multi-lingual/symbol entry > powers. There are systems where it is enabled and has to be disabled? I have always had to enable it given my install is always plain english to begin with. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 16:25:01 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 12:25:01 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <518F17E1.8050001-W7mmRt3Ql23QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> <518F17E1.8050001@sadiqs.com> Message-ID: <20130513162501.GB14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 12:17:37AM -0400, Sadiq Saif wrote: > I believe he is talking about the AltGr key: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key That is certainly NOT a compose key. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 16:30:47 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 12:30:47 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <518F9B00.1090508-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> <518F17E1.8050001@sadiqs.com> <518F9B00.1090508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130513163047.GC14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 09:37:04AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Nope, not the Alt Gr key, though I do have my Alt Gr key on this laptop > set up as Compose. > > The Compose key is a dead key which combines the keys you press after it > into a symbol or character not normally present on the keyboard. Some > examples: > > Compose + > 1st key 2nd key 3rd key Result > ======= ======= ======= ====== > ' a ? Letter a acute > ` e ? Letter e grave > " o ? Letter o umlaut > s s ? Letter German sharp s > / c ? Currency cent symbol > = c ? Currency euro symbol > " < ? Punctuation left double quote > " > ? Punctuation right double quote > - - - ? Punctuation em-dash > . . ? Punctuation ellipsis > - : ? Mathematics division > o o ? Symbol degree > - > ? Symbol right arrow > > There are many more. Many, many more: > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libX11/plain/nls/en_US.UTF-8/Compose.pre > > The advantage that using Compose has over the US International layout + > Alt Gr is that the key combinations used with Compose are somewhat more > logical. Compose does require a bunch more typing, though. > > Finding the settings for the Compose key can be more involved than it > should be. For instance, Ubuntu hides it under System Settings? ? > Keyboard ? Layout Settings ? Options? You had way too much fun there. :) I do like the compose + ? + ? and compose + ! + ! and such. Also useful is compose + space + space which gives a hard space. compose + ? + ! and compose + ! + ? also work for those that think interrobang is useful (and even for spanish and the like that need the up side down version). I would think in canada where french is used, compose + c + , and compose + C + , would be handy in addition to the ones you listed above. -- Len S?rensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 16:32:14 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 12:32:14 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130513163214.GD14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 09:47:37AM -0400, John Moniz wrote: > This is great. I didn't know there was such a thing as a compose key > even though I've needed one for years. I set it up on my right-Alt > key and will certainly use it. Now I can type chouri?o and cacha?a > instead of chourico and cachaca. I find right alt is too useful to waste. menu key or caps lock on the other hand are no problem. Even one of the windows keys if you have them. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 16:37:17 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 12:37:17 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <519116BD.2000809@ve3syb.ca> On 13-05-13 09:47 AM, John Moniz wrote: > This is great. I didn't know there was such a thing as a compose key even > though I've needed one for years. I haven't needed one very often. I think I saw a mention of a Compose feature years ago when I had been investigating the items under the System menu entry of my Gnome desktop. I was about to ask where the option was located to enable the compose key when I discovered it under System -> Keyboard, Layouts tab, then Options button. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 16:44:57 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 12:44:57 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <20130513163214.GD14307-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130513163214.GD14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51911889.2050002@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I find right alt is too useful to waste. menu key or caps lock on the > other hand are no problem. Even one of the windows keys if you have them. I knew there had to be a use for that Windows key. ;-) Actually, on my IBM "M" keybaord, there is (thankfully) no Windows key. On my computer, the Pause key is used as the compose key. Since my computer is configured for the U.S. International layout, the right Alt (AltGr) is used for the extra characters that layout provides. It would be nice if those other characters were on the key tops, as I have to refer to a layout chart for the appropriate keystrokes. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 16:46:32 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 12:46:32 -0400 Subject: Wifi activation problem - HP 2000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130513164632.GE14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 11:44:30PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > I finally got around to properly struggling with the wifi issue with my > new-ish laptop, and it's looking likely that there's a tough-to-surmount > problem there. > > Initially, there was some question as to whether the apropos drivers were > in place; I'm reasonably satisfied that I have all that I ought to need in > the form of Debian + Linux 3.8 kernel + firmware-ralink package. > > The following thread on OpenSuSE describes the issues kind of relevant to > it, from an OpenSuSE perspective; what's notable is that it appears to > describe precisely my model, down to the exact model numbers and such in > lspci output. > > http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/wireless/480447-ralink-wirless-driver-help.html > > My kernel knows about the network adapter, and indicates it has a driver > prepped: > > root at hpaq:~# lspci -v | grep -10 01:00.0 | tail -11 > 01:00.0 Network controller: Ralink corp. Device 539b > Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Device 18ed > Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16 > Memory at c2500000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] > Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3 > Capabilities: [50] MSI: Enable- Count=1/32 Maskable- 64bit+ > Capabilities: [70] Express Endpoint, MSI 00 > Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting > Capabilities: [140] Device Serial Number 00-00-7b-66-63-31-17-a4 > Kernel driver in use: rt2800pci > > In that discussion thread, it was observed that earlier versions of the > rt2800pci driver did not recognize this model of network adapter ("539b"); > since the kernel driver is indicated to be in place, it sure seems like I'm > on an apropos version of kernel such that it is recognized. > > Unfortunately, there's one more step, and I'm not seeing a resolution to > it. > > I have added config to /etc/network/interfaces, but iwlist has a complaint: > > root at hpaq:~# iwlist wlan0 scan > wlan0 Interface doesn't support scanning : Network is down > > The most relevant link found in spelunking was this one: > http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/ubuntu-63/wireless-became-disabled-how-do-i-enable-858357/ > > Indications are that there is a "hardware lock" in place, deactivating the > adapter. On many systems, such a "lock" exists as a visible, togglable > hardware switch. I used to see similar on the Thinkpad X60s that I use at > work. > > Sadly, on my machine, the lock is handled via a "soft-key", essentially via > running Windows, and pressing "Fn-F12", which would cause a little LED that > is presently orange to switch to blue, and allow a different output than > rfkill is showing: > > root at hpaq:~# rfkill list 1 > 1: hp-wifi: Wireless LAN > Soft blocked: no > Hard blocked: yes > root at hpaq:~# rfkill unblock 1 > root at hpaq:~# rfkill list 1 > 1: hp-wifi: Wireless LAN > Soft blocked: no > Hard blocked: yes > > I don't have any Windows install around, so can't reboot there to do a > switcheroo. I see some suggestions that one might muss around in BIOS and > find an option that would force wifi to stay on; that does not appear to be > the case with this particular system. > > It is looking pretty likely, as consequence, that I'll need to grab a USB > wireless adapter for those times I want wireless, which is unfortunate, but > not too totally disastrous. > > If there is some mechanism other than rfkill (in the rfkill package) to > switch that "hardware switch" (that isn't truly a hardware switch), 'twould > be nice. > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" Any chance this crazy system works: http://www.rubyops.net/fixing-wireless-on-the-hp-folio-13-when-using-linux -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 16:49:24 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 12:49:24 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <20130513163047.GC14307-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> <518F17E1.8050001@sadiqs.com> <518F9B00.1090508@gmail.com> <20130513163047.GC14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51911994.3020507@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > You had way too much fun there. For "fun", you should try using a Canadian French keyboard for English or vice versa. Several years ago, I worked at IBM and part of my work involved testing the standard desktop images in both English and French. I often found myself with the wrong keyboard for the language I was working in. BTW, anyone else remember when the Eaton's and Sears catalogs carried typewriters available with either French or English keyboards? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 16:49:41 2013 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 12:49:41 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <519116BD.2000809-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <519116BD.2000809@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > I was about to ask where the option was located to enable the compose key > when I discovered it under System -> Keyboard, Layouts tab, then Options > button. In 3.8 it's Settings -> Keyboard -> Shortcuts -> Typing. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 16:51:09 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 12:51:09 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <518EDBC0.30101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Quick question: do you use the Compose key on your Linux box much? > Haven't connected using a VT240 in years, and even then, I didn't use it much. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 16:52:29 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 12:52:29 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <51911994.3020507-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> <518F17E1.8050001@sadiqs.com> <518F9B00.1090508@gmail.com> <20130513163047.GC14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51911994.3020507@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51911A4D.8090000@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > BTW, anyone else remember when the Eaton's and Sears catalogs carried > typewriters available with either French or English keyboards? Or for that matter, does anyone else remember typewriters? Or the Eaton's catalog? I think the Sears catalog is still around. Not sure though. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 16:54:34 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 12:54:34 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51911ACA.3010705@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > Haven't connected using a VT240 in years, and even then, I didn't use > it much. Didn't they have a "Gold" key? It's been almost 25 years since the last time I used a DEC terminal, connected to a VAX 11/780. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 18:20:24 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 14:20:24 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <51911ACA.3010705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <51911ACA.3010705@rogers.com> Message-ID: Pretty sure the VTs had a Gold key. Last used one in my first job, circa 1993, to talk to our analysis Vax. The Sun 3s I used through university, and the Sun Sparcs I used at Collins Dictionaries, all had a compose key to the right of the space bar. Cheers Stewart On 13 May 2013 12:55, "James Knott" wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > >> Haven't connected using a VT240 in years, and even then, I didn't use it >> much. >> > > Didn't they have a "Gold" key? It's been almost 25 years since the last > time I used a DEC terminal, connected to a VAX 11/780. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 18:40:07 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 14:40:07 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <51911ACA.3010705@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Stewart Russell wrote: > Pretty sure the VTs had a Gold key. Last used one in my first job, circa > 1993, to talk to our analysis Vax. The Sun 3s I used through university, > and the Sun Sparcs I used at Collins Dictionaries, all had a compose key to > the right of the space bar. > What I was thinking of was the VT420, which had a Compose key beside the space bar: http://www.vt100.net/docs/vt420-uu/chapter4.html Back in the day, it was enough trouble to get applications to recognize, capture, and pass on special characters that it tended to be a more attractive idea to use TeX encoding for special characters, and let TeX handle the "transport" of such. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 19:30:22 2013 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 15:30:22 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <51911994.3020507-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> <518F17E1.8050001@sadiqs.com> <518F9B00.1090508@gmail.com> <20130513163047.GC14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51911994.3020507@rogers.com> Message-ID: And there was one available with the Dvorak layout. I learned to type on it. Peter > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> You had way too much fun there. > > For "fun", you should try using a Canadian French keyboard for English > or vice versa. Several years ago, I worked at IBM and part of my work > involved testing the standard desktop images in both English and > French. I often found myself with the wrong keyboard for the language I > was working in. > > BTW, anyone else remember when the Eaton's and Sears catalogs carried > typewriters available with either French or English keyboards? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 19:33:14 2013 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 15:33:14 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <51911A4D.8090000-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> <518F17E1.8050001@sadiqs.com> <518F9B00.1090508@gmail.com> <20130513163047.GC14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51911994.3020507@rogers.com> <51911A4D.8090000@rogers.com> Message-ID: > James Knott wrote: >> BTW, anyone else remember when the Eaton's and Sears catalogs carried >> typewriters available with either French or English keyboards? > > Or for that matter, does anyone else remember typewriters? Or the > Eaton's catalog? I think the Sears catalog is still around. Not sure > though. > The first time my daughter saw a manual typewriter, she thought it was a huge improvement over the computer. Look dad, no printer necessary! And you get to see your work in print immediately! This was an IBM Selectric with the erase tape built in, so I couldn't even claim it wouldn't erase. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 20:18:38 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 16:18:38 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> <518F17E1.8050001@sadiqs.com> <518F9B00.1090508@gmail.com> <20130513163047.GC14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51911994.3020507@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51914A9E.4090508@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > And there was one available with the Dvorak layout. I learned to type on it. Ah... That explains it. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon May 13 20:58:22 2013 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 16:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <518F1756.4050602@ve3syb.ca> <518F17E1.8050001@sadiqs.com> <518F9B00.1090508@gmail.com> <20130513163047.GC14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51911994.3020507@rogers.com> <51911A4D.8090000@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 May 2013, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> James Knott wrote: >>> BTW, anyone else remember when the Eaton's and Sears catalogs carried >>> typewriters available with either French or English keyboards? >> >> Or for that matter, does anyone else remember typewriters? Or the >> Eaton's catalog? I think the Sears catalog is still around. Not sure >> though. >> > The first time my daughter saw a manual typewriter, she thought it was a > huge improvement over the computer. Look dad, no printer necessary! And > you get to see your work in print immediately! > > This was an IBM Selectric with the erase tape built in, so I couldn't even > claim it wouldn't erase. That's not a manual typewriter; that's an electric typewriter. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 12:20:45 2013 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 08:20:45 -0400 Subject: Pre-Meeting Venue: @Panera Bread Message-ID: I know Scott has already posted this, but just in case anybody else missed it. Panera Bread 1 (416) 205-9371 322 Yonge St, Toronto, ON M5B 1R8 http://goo.gl/maps/x72Tj -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 12:21:39 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 08:21:39 -0400 Subject: International Space Station ditches Windows for Linux | Globalnews.ca Message-ID: <51922C53.4030601@rogers.com> http://globalnews.ca/news/551478/international-space-station-ditches-windows-os-for-linux/ ?As far as we know, after this transition, there won?t be a single computer aboard the ISS that runs Windows,? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 12:35:18 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 08:35:18 -0400 Subject: why is my desktop sluggish? In-Reply-To: <518F1F0C.2030306-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518F1F0C.2030306@sobac.com> Message-ID: <51922F86.5060507@rogers.com> Bob Jonkman wrote: > Perhaps this may help you: type 'about:memory' in the address bar. At > the bottom of the list of resources there are buttons to perform garbage > collect, cycle collect, and minimize memory. That didn't help. I still had to close the app entirely to restore performance. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 13:43:24 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 09:43:24 -0400 Subject: "I Contribute to the Windows Kernel. We Are Slower Than Other Operating Systems. Here Is Why." Message-ID: <20130514134324.GA17714@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> "I Contribute to the Windows Kernel. We Are Slower Than Other Operating Systems. Here Is Why." http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=74 -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 13:55:41 2013 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 09:55:41 -0400 Subject: Pre-Meeting Venue: @Panera Bread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > I know Scott has already posted this, but just in case anybody else missed > it. > > Panera Bread > 1 (416) 205-9371 > 322 Yonge St, Toronto, ON M5B 1R8 > http://goo.gl/maps/x72Tj > Or, if you like "freedom" and stuff. :-) http://osm.org/go/ZX6BtwGjl--?m -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 15:17:40 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 11:17:40 -0400 Subject: High-res IPS L[EC]D monitors In-Reply-To: <20130331110807.62a0978184e7c5e75e3de902-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20130331110807.62a0978184e7c5e75e3de902@eol.ca> Message-ID: <51925594.6050908@ss.org> On 03/31/2013 11:08 AM, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 23:40:44 -0700 > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> I know the general lack of >1080 has come up before so.... thoughts? > > Tyler, > > What do you mean by a general lack of 1080? A general lack of screens with 'greater then' >1080 vertical resolution. I know this is a common gripe for the TLUG list and technical people in general. The value here is that we want greater vertical reading distance while stacking multiple windows side by side. CRTs near the end of their days we're regularly pushing 1600 vertical pixels. This kind of screen real-estate has not really been matched by the panel market with out it being absurdly expensive. The advent of "HD" for TVs has set a "there is nothing better" expectation in consumers minds. This has led to the sorry sate where Computer monitor manufactures no longer push for larger screens. The list archives are full of interesting discussion on this topic. What I'd like to see is some data on how long it took CRT pixel densities to get to those levels. Then compare it to the rate on flat panels and see if there really is a plateau around the whole "HD" market push. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 15:24:58 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 11:24:58 -0400 Subject: High-res IPS L[EC]D monitors In-Reply-To: <51925594.6050908-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20130331110807.62a0978184e7c5e75e3de902@eol.ca> <51925594.6050908@ss.org> Message-ID: <20130514152458.GF14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:17:40AM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: > A general lack of screens with 'greater then' >1080 vertical > resolution. I know this is a common gripe for the TLUG list and > technical people in general. The value here is that we want greater > vertical reading distance while stacking multiple windows side by > side. > > CRTs near the end of their days we're regularly pushing 1600 > vertical pixels. This kind of screen real-estate has not really been > matched by the panel market with out it being absurdly expensive. > The advent of "HD" for TVs has set a "there is nothing better" > expectation in consumers minds. This has led to the sorry sate where > Computer monitor manufactures no longer push for larger screens. CRTs rarely went past 1600x1200, since that as about as much as an analog VGA link could reliably do. Now 1080 is less than 1200, so that's not a good thing. However there does exist screens with 1440 and 1600 vertical these days. usually in 27 or 30" size. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 15:33:18 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 11:33:18 -0400 Subject: High-res IPS L[EC]D monitors In-Reply-To: <20130514152458.GF14307-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130331110807.62a0978184e7c5e75e3de902@eol.ca> <51925594.6050908@ss.org> <20130514152458.GF14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <5192593E.9060803@ss.org> On 05/14/2013 11:24 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:17:40AM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: >> A general lack of screens with 'greater then' >1080 vertical >> resolution. I know this is a common gripe for the TLUG list and >> technical people in general. The value here is that we want greater >> vertical reading distance while stacking multiple windows side by >> side. >> >> CRTs near the end of their days we're regularly pushing 1600 >> vertical pixels. This kind of screen real-estate has not really been >> matched by the panel market with out it being absurdly expensive. >> The advent of "HD" for TVs has set a "there is nothing better" >> expectation in consumers minds. This has led to the sorry sate where >> Computer monitor manufactures no longer push for larger screens. > > CRTs rarely went past 1600x1200, since that as about as much as an analog > VGA link could reliably do. > > Now 1080 is less than 1200, so that's not a good thing. > > However there does exist screens with 1440 and 1600 vertical these > days. usually in 27 or 30" size. > Thanks... this should have gone to the list a 6 weeks ago, but I just found it in drafts. Thought I'd lost it during a delivery failure. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 15:39:59 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 11:39:59 -0400 Subject: High-res IPS L[EC]D monitors In-Reply-To: <51925594.6050908-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20130331110807.62a0978184e7c5e75e3de902@eol.ca> <51925594.6050908@ss.org> Message-ID: <51925ACF.1050609@rogers.com> Scott Sullivan wrote: > What I'd like to see is some data on how long it took CRT pixel > densities to get to those levels. Then compare it to the rate on flat > panels and see if there really is a plateau around the whole "HD" > market push. Well, CRTs have been around for about a century. Back in 1941, when the NTSC standard was set, it was considered "Hi Def", as every other system had lower resolution. It took all this time for CRT resolution to improve. On the other hand flat panels do not require improvement in technology. It's possible to make them with much higher resolution. The problem is the cost, when most of the market is satisfied with 1080 lines. There are higher resolution displays available, but they cost a lot more. How much do you want to spend? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 16:49:45 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 12:49:45 -0400 Subject: High-res IPS L[EC]D monitors In-Reply-To: <51925ACF.1050609-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130331110807.62a0978184e7c5e75e3de902@eol.ca> <51925594.6050908@ss.org> <51925ACF.1050609@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51926B29.3050608@utoronto.ca> On 14/05/13 11:39 AM, James Knott wrote: > Well, CRTs have been around for about a century. Back in 1941, when the > NTSC standard was set, it was considered "Hi Def", as every other system > had lower resolution. It took all this time for CRT resolution to > improve. On the other hand flat panels do not require improvement in > technology. It's possible to make them with much higher resolution. > The problem is the cost, when most of the market is satisfied with 1080 > lines. There are higher resolution displays available, but they cost a > lot more. How much do you want to spend? I took note of some of the panels used in a documentary that I recently watched called Side by Side, which details the switch from film to digital in the cinema world. I noted quite a few Dell U2xxx series monitors being used for editing and post production work. I have a U2410 at 1920x1200px and cannot say enough good things about it. It is brilliant for my digital photography post-processing needs, and is great for gaming too. The 27" models do 2560x1440", and 30" models do 2560 x 1600 at 60 Hz with fantastic colour accuracy out of the box. I calibrated mine and use xcalib when X starts to load the generated ICC profile. The difference from the stock factory calibration to my profile is pretty much invisible unless I toggle the profile on and off in rapid succession. If you can catch one of these monitors on sale they are worth the extra cost compared to a basic screen. I believe quite a few TLUG members have one or two each. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 18:29:28 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 14:29:28 -0400 Subject: High-res IPS L[EC]D monitors In-Reply-To: <5192593E.9060803-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20130331110807.62a0978184e7c5e75e3de902@eol.ca> <51925594.6050908@ss.org> <20130514152458.GF14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <5192593E.9060803@ss.org> Message-ID: If you need a tall screen, I use a Multisync E222W in portrait mode, with one in landscape next to it. Gives me 1050x1680 on one desktop for texty stuff, and 1680x1050 for widey stuff on the other. It looks like the effect it has on most people who see it: 0_o I don't care. ;-) Stewart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 18:59:01 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 14:59:01 -0400 Subject: High-res IPS L[EC]D monitors In-Reply-To: <51926B29.3050608-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130331110807.62a0978184e7c5e75e3de902@eol.ca> <51925594.6050908@ss.org> <51925ACF.1050609@rogers.com> <51926B29.3050608@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20130514185901.GG14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 12:49:45PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I took note of some of the panels used in a documentary that I recently > watched called Side by Side, which details the switch from film to > digital in the cinema world. > > I noted quite a few Dell U2xxx series monitors being used for editing > and post production work. > > I have a U2410 at 1920x1200px and cannot say enough good things about > it. It is brilliant for my digital photography post-processing needs, > and is great for gaming too. The U2410 was H-IPS with 8 bit per colour. The U2412M on the other hand is eIPS, with only 6 bit per colour. http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/panel_technologies_content.htm tries to explain the differences between LCD types. The U2413 nicely has an AH-IPS display with 10 bit per colour (8 bit + FRC apparently). > The 27" models do 2560x1440", and 30" models do 2560 x 1600 at 60 Hz > with fantastic colour accuracy out of the box. Those are certainly nice. The U3014 (current model) is AH-IPS and 10 bit per colour. The older U3011 is H-IPS and also 10 bit per colour. The U2713H is the same kind of display as the U3014. > I calibrated mine and use xcalib when X starts to load the generated ICC > profile. The difference from the stock factory calibration to my profile > is pretty much invisible unless I toggle the profile on and off in rapid > succession. > > If you can catch one of these monitors on sale they are worth the extra > cost compared to a basic screen. I believe quite a few TLUG members have > one or two each. In general it is hard to go wrong with the Dell U series monitors (except apparently the U2412M which just isn't that nice, and is constantly on sale it seems). Most things that claim 10 bit are probably best assumed to be 8 bit with FRC faking the rest. Not too many actual 10 bit displays out there. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 19:18:41 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 15:18:41 -0400 Subject: High-res IPS L[EC]D monitors In-Reply-To: <20130514185901.GG14307-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130331110807.62a0978184e7c5e75e3de902@eol.ca> <51925594.6050908@ss.org> <51925ACF.1050609@rogers.com> <51926B29.3050608@utoronto.ca> <20130514185901.GG14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130514191841.GA21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 02:59:01PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The U3014 (current model) is AH-IPS and 10 bit per colour. The older > U3011 is H-IPS and also 10 bit per colour. > > The U2713H is the same kind of display as the U3014. Interestingly the U2713HM is 8 bit per colour without FRC, which should actually be a nice screen for quite a bit less than the U2713H which has 10 bit (8 bit + FRC). The H is wide gamut, the HM is standard. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 21:11:21 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 17:11:21 -0400 Subject: Pre-Meeting Venue: @Panera Bread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not for lack of trying.... On 14 May 2013 09:55, Richard Weait wrote: > Or, if you like "freedom" and stuff. :-) http://osm.org/go/ZX6BtwGjl--?m > > Application error The OpenStreetMap server encountered an unexpected condition that prevented it from fulfilling the request (HTTP 500) Feel free to contact the OpenStreetMap community if your problem persists. Make a note of the exact URL / post data of your request. This may be a problem in our Ruby On Rails code. 500 occurs with exceptions thrown outside of an action (like in Dispatcher setups or broken Ruby code) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 21:30:38 2013 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 17:30:38 -0400 Subject: Pre-Meeting Venue: @Panera Bread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh, bad luck on that 500 error, Evan. Works for me, now. There have been a flurry of patches deployed in the last week, so you may have looked at just the right, wrong, moment. OpenStreetMap Foundation is running a funding drive for a second master DB server that would help eliminate those. http://donate.openstreetmap.org/ Tell 'em I sent ya'. :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 14 23:53:17 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 19:53:17 -0400 Subject: "I Contribute to the Windows Kernel. We Are Slower Than Other Operating Systems. Here Is Why." In-Reply-To: <20130514134324.GA17714-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20130514134324.GA17714@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: > > "I Contribute to the Windows Kernel. We Are Slower Than Other Operating > Systems. Here Is Why." > http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=74 > ---quote-- (Besides: you guys have systemd, which if I'm going to treat it the same way I treated NTFS, is an all-devouring octopus monster about crawl out of the sea and eat Tokyo and spit it out as a giant binary logfile.) --end quote-- Ha, like the way he take a dig on systemd. Looks like its universally hated. Anyway had read it yesterday. Initially passed it thinking its another lame windows vs Linux article, but noticed its all over the media, so gave it an eye. Well written, solid evidence he is a windows kernel hacker and petty well rounded knowledge. Can't help to wonder how they can fix their problems. They can pay more for a start, they shouldn't let Google outbid them on hiring people. Human dynamics are harder to fix, may be pay the group bonus for speed improvement. That all mean money, so the suggestion may not go well with management. Petty good read anyway William > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 15 16:27:45 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 12:27:45 -0400 Subject: High-res IPS L[EC]D monitors In-Reply-To: <20130514191841.GA21882-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130331110807.62a0978184e7c5e75e3de902@eol.ca> <51925594.6050908@ss.org> <51925ACF.1050609@rogers.com> <51926B29.3050608@utoronto.ca> <20130514185901.GG14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130514191841.GA21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 14 May 2013 15:18, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 02:59:01PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> The U3014 (current model) is AH-IPS and 10 bit per colour. The older >> U3011 is H-IPS and also 10 bit per colour. >> >> The U2713H is the same kind of display as the U3014. > > Interestingly the U2713HM is 8 bit per colour without FRC, which should > actually be a nice screen for quite a bit less than the U2713H which > has 10 bit (8 bit + FRC). The H is wide gamut, the HM is standard. > Not sure if that's a good or bad thing. This flurry of discussion around higher-than-1080p sends me back to another discussion on this list a couple weeks ago about the Seiki 50" 4K (2160p) TV. As discussed then, the review(s?) suggested it would make a poor TV, but possibly a decent (certainly for the price) monitor: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7674736&CatId=4717 I suspect anyone purchasing one as a monitor will need to rearrange their workspace - and we'll all wait with eager interest the results of this experiment. Seems to me that you'll be spending not only $1500 plus tax on the monitor, but another $500 on the video card to drive it. But it might be worth it ... (I'm one of the 30" Dell owners, and I love the thing. I have to admit a 50" 3840 x 2160 monitor is a very, very appealing idea.) Is it actually possible to drive this thing at full res? Are there any video cards (preferably Linux-supported) that can drive HDMI (this thing doesn't seem to have DVI, and a quick scan of the DVI spec suggests it doesn't get to 2160p anyway) at this resolution? Of course you're going to have to have a desktop: I can't imagine that anyone makes a laptop that would support it. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 15 18:30:14 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 14:30:14 -0400 Subject: High-res IPS L[EC]D monitors In-Reply-To: References: <20130331110807.62a0978184e7c5e75e3de902@eol.ca> <51925594.6050908@ss.org> <51925ACF.1050609@rogers.com> <51926B29.3050608@utoronto.ca> <20130514185901.GG14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130514191841.GA21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130515183014.GB21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 12:27:45PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > This flurry of discussion around higher-than-1080p sends me back to > another discussion on this list a couple weeks ago about the Seiki 50" > 4K (2160p) TV. As discussed then, the review(s?) suggested it would > make a poor TV, but possibly a decent (certainly for the price) > monitor: > > http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7674736&CatId=4717 > > I suspect anyone purchasing one as a monitor will need to rearrange > their workspace - and we'll all wait with eager interest the results > of this experiment. Seems to me that you'll be spending not only > $1500 plus tax on the monitor, but another $500 on the video card to > drive it. But it might be worth it ... > > (I'm one of the 30" Dell owners, and I love the thing. I have to > admit a 50" 3840 x 2160 monitor is a very, very appealing idea.) > > Is it actually possible to drive this thing at full res? Are there > any video cards (preferably Linux-supported) that can drive HDMI (this > thing doesn't seem to have DVI, and a quick scan of the DVI spec > suggests it doesn't get to 2160p anyway) at this resolution? Of > course you're going to have to have a desktop: I can't imagine that > anyone makes a laptop that would support it. Supposedly any nvidia card with PureVideo5 can do HDMI 1.4a and drive a 4k display over it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo Someone claims to have tried with a gtx660 ti card and it worked for them in windows: http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/extremewindows/archive/2012/12/17/extreme-4k-multi-mon-video-editing-on-windows-8.aspx I believe the refresh rate is limited to 30Hz at 3840x2160 resolution over HDMI 1.4a though. Higher refresh rate would require display port 1.2 or higher, and I haven't seen any TVs with that. No idea if the linux drivers support doing that yet. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed May 15 19:10:51 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 15:10:51 -0400 Subject: How do I copy all files with scp in 1 command? Message-ID: <20130515191051.GD27396@waltdnes.org> I'm mostly finished setting up a new desktop PC, after which an ancient PC will go to the York Region ewaste centre. One problem I ran into whilst copying over files is that "dot-files", e.g. .bash_profile and .bashrc are not copied over when I specify "*". What I ended up doing was... scp * new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ scp \.* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ Is there a simpler way that works with 1 command? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 15 22:24:54 2013 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 18:24:54 -0400 Subject: How do I copy all files with scp in 1 command? In-Reply-To: <20130515191051.GD27396-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130515191051.GD27396@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: How about $ rsync --archive --progress /home/waltdnes new_machine:/home/ Alex. On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 3:10 PM, wrote: > I'm mostly finished setting up a new desktop PC, after which an > ancient PC will go to the York Region ewaste centre. One problem I ran > into whilst copying over files is that "dot-files", e.g. .bash_profile > and .bashrc are not copied over when I specify "*". What I ended up > doing was... > > scp * new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ > scp \.* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ > > Is there a simpler way that works with 1 command? > > -- > Walter Dnes > I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 15 22:25:04 2013 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 18:25:04 -0400 Subject: How do I copy all files with scp in 1 command? In-Reply-To: <20130515191051.GD27396-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130515191051.GD27396@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: -r iirc .tl On May 15, 2013 6:23 PM, wrote: > I'm mostly finished setting up a new desktop PC, after which an > ancient PC will go to the York Region ewaste centre. One problem I ran > into whilst copying over files is that "dot-files", e.g. .bash_profile > and .bashrc are not copied over when I specify "*". What I ended up > doing was... > > scp * new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ > scp \.* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ > > Is there a simpler way that works with 1 command? > > -- > Walter Dnes > I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed May 15 22:35:12 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 18:35:12 -0400 Subject: How do I copy all files with scp in 1 command? In-Reply-To: <20130515191051.GD27396-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130515191051.GD27396@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130515223512.GA15842@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 03:10:51PM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'm mostly finished setting up a new desktop PC, after which an >ancient PC will go to the York Region ewaste centre. One problem I ran >into whilst copying over files is that "dot-files", e.g. .bash_profile >and .bashrc are not copied over when I specify "*". What I ended up >doing was... > >scp * new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ >scp \.* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ Try this: tar -cf - * .* | ssh host 'tar -xf -' -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Wed May 15 23:39:20 2013 From: faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Syed Faisal Akber) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 23:39:20 Subject: How do I copy all files with scp in 1 command? In-Reply-To: <20130515223512.GA15842-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20130515191051.GD27396@waltdnes.org> <20130515223512.GA15842@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20130515233925.40998A2D98@lethe.ss.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 00:23:40 2013 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 20:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How do I copy all files with scp in 1 command? In-Reply-To: <20130515223512.GA15842-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20130515191051.GD27396@waltdnes.org> <20130515223512.GA15842@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 May 2013, Neil Watson wrote: > On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 03:10:51PM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: >> I'm mostly finished setting up a new desktop PC, after which an >> ancient PC will go to the York Region ewaste centre. One problem I ran >> into whilst copying over files is that "dot-files", e.g. .bash_profile >> and .bashrc are not copied over when I specify "*". What I ended up >> doing was... >> >> scp * new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ >> scp \.* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ Include dot files in filename expansion with: shopt -s dotglob -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 00:30:36 2013 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 17:30:36 -0700 Subject: High-res IPS L[EC]D monitors In-Reply-To: References: <20130331110807.62a0978184e7c5e75e3de902@eol.ca> <51925594.6050908@ss.org> <51925ACF.1050609@rogers.com> <51926B29.3050608@utoronto.ca> <20130514185901.GG14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130514191841.GA21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On May 15, 2013 9:28 AM, "Giles Orr" wrote: > > On 14 May 2013 15:18, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 02:59:01PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> The U3014 (current model) is AH-IPS and 10 bit per colour. The older > >> U3011 is H-IPS and also 10 bit per colour. > >> > >> The U2713H is the same kind of display as the U3014. > > > > Interestingly the U2713HM is 8 bit per colour without FRC, which should > > actually be a nice screen for quite a bit less than the U2713H which > > has 10 bit (8 bit + FRC). The H is wide gamut, the HM is standard. > > Not sure if that's a good or bad thing. > > This flurry of discussion around higher-than-1080p sends me back to > another discussion on this list a couple weeks ago about the Seiki 50" > 4K (2160p) TV. As discussed then, the review(s?) suggested it would > make a poor TV, but possibly a decent (certainly for the price) > monitor: > > http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7674736&CatId=4717 > > I suspect anyone purchasing one as a monitor will need to rearrange > their workspace - and we'll all wait with eager interest the results > of this experiment. Seems to me that you'll be spending not only > $1500 plus tax on the monitor, but another $500 on the video card to > drive it. But it might be worth it ... > > (I'm one of the 30" Dell owners, and I love the thing. I have to > admit a 50" 3840 x 2160 monitor is a very, very appealing idea.) > > Is it actually possible to drive this thing at full res? Are there > any video cards (preferably Linux-supported) that can drive HDMI (this > thing doesn't seem to have DVI, and a quick scan of the DVI spec > suggests it doesn't get to 2160p anyway) at this resolution? Of > course you're going to have to have a desktop: I can't imagine that > anyone makes a laptop that would support it. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists To be honest, while 4k resolution is nice, I think that 50" might be a bit much for coding etc Nice for games though, if your video card can handle it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 00:55:19 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 20:55:19 -0400 Subject: How do I copy all files with scp in 1 command? In-Reply-To: <20130515191051.GD27396-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130515191051.GD27396@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <51942E77.3050000@rogers.com> waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > scp * new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ > scp \.* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ > > Is there a simpler way that works with 1 command? I normally use cp -a, which creates an archive. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 03:00:19 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 23:00:19 -0400 Subject: Wifi activation problem - HP 2000 In-Reply-To: <20130513164632.GE14307-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130513164632.GE14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Any chance this crazy system works: > > http://www.rubyops.net/fixing-wireless-on-the-hp-folio-13-when-using-linux > > That sure sounds great; alas, it doesn't seem to actually do anything. Something about it doesn't entirely make sense; in effect, it seems as though the "solution" (temporarily removing the device driver hp-wmi) removes ACPI support temporarily, thereby allowing rfkill to 'do its thing' and unblock the network interface. The ordering that is described for the sleep.d modules doesn't occur in quite the right order to do this, alas. Were it to work, I should be able to observe it in the much simpler case of doing: a) rmmod hp-wmi, to deactivate the offending HP driver, b) rfblock unblock all, to reactivate wifi, then c) modprobe hp-wmi, to put ACPI back in place so that I can hibernate the system (and such like). It still seems to be a NOOP, as far as unblocking wifi is concerned. I have an alternate wifi stick, which works, so I have a usable workaround, and it is demonstrably working, at the moment, as I am presently using the laptop using the TP-Link "stick", which is how this email got out from the laptop. So 'tis functioning reasonably adequately. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Wed May 15 22:46:25 2013 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 18:46:25 -0400 Subject: How do I copy all files with scp in 1 command? Message-ID: <201305152246.r4FMkPgJ006694@john.syonex.com> | From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org | Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 15:10:51 -0400 | | scp * new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ | scp \.* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ | | Is there a simpler way that works with 1 command? scp, like cp and mv, can take multiple source files, and indeed, you are already doing that - the * expands to multiple files. Virtually anywhere you use one shell wildcard, you can use more than one. So: scp * .??* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ I use ".??*" to avoid matching . or .. (the directories) and because I rarely have files named with a period and one character. As others mentioned, you can of course use scp's -r option, if you want to recursively copy an entire directory. scp -p -r . new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ -p means retain dates and owner/group/mode. And of course, rsync is a good choice as well, especially if your copy might be interrupted in the middle somewhere: rsync -av . new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ Hope that helps - cheers! John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 14:29:30 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 10:29:30 -0400 Subject: Wifi activation problem - HP 2000 In-Reply-To: References: <20130513164632.GE14307@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130516142930.GC21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 11:00:19PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > That sure sounds great; alas, it doesn't seem to actually do anything. > > Something about it doesn't entirely make sense; in effect, it seems as > though the "solution" (temporarily removing the device driver hp-wmi) > removes ACPI support temporarily, thereby allowing rfkill to 'do its thing' > and unblock the network interface. > > The ordering that is described for the sleep.d modules doesn't occur in > quite the right order to do this, alas. > > Were it to work, I should be able to observe it in the much simpler case of > doing: > > a) rmmod hp-wmi, to deactivate the offending HP driver, > > b) rfblock unblock all, to reactivate wifi, then > > c) modprobe hp-wmi, to put ACPI back in place so that I can hibernate the > system (and such like). > > It still seems to be a NOOP, as far as unblocking wifi is concerned. > > I have an alternate wifi stick, which works, so I have a usable workaround, > and it is demonstrably working, at the moment, as I am presently using the > laptop using the TP-Link "stick", which is how this email got out from the > laptop. So 'tis functioning reasonably adequately. I have encountered these awful ACPI wifi switches before, and now make sure to NEVER buy anything that has one. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 14:57:28 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 10:57:28 -0400 Subject: How do I copy all files with scp in 1 command? In-Reply-To: <20130515191051.GD27396-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130515191051.GD27396@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130516145728.GD21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 03:10:51PM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'm mostly finished setting up a new desktop PC, after which an > ancient PC will go to the York Region ewaste centre. One problem I ran > into whilst copying over files is that "dot-files", e.g. .bash_profile > and .bashrc are not copied over when I specify "*". What I ended up > doing was... > > scp * new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ > scp \.* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ > > Is there a simpler way that works with 1 command? scp * \.* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ Is that simpler? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 14:58:46 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 10:58:46 -0400 Subject: How do I copy all files with scp in 1 command? In-Reply-To: <201305152246.r4FMkPgJ006694-Jipd69o+pMeeO54lu/exkA@public.gmane.org> References: <201305152246.r4FMkPgJ006694@john.syonex.com> Message-ID: <20130516145846.GE21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 06:46:25PM -0400, John Sellens wrote: > scp, like cp and mv, can take multiple source files, and indeed, > you are already doing that - the * expands to multiple files. > > Virtually anywhere you use one shell wildcard, you can use more than one. > > So: > > scp * .??* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ > > I use ".??*" to avoid matching . or .. (the directories) and because > I rarely have files named with a period and one character. > > As others mentioned, you can of course use scp's -r option, if you > want to recursively copy an entire directory. > > scp -p -r . new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ > > -p means retain dates and owner/group/mode. > > And of course, rsync is a good choice as well, especially if your > copy might be interrupted in the middle somewhere: > > rsync -av . new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ > > Hope that helps - cheers! Also with the right options rsync can maintain sparse files, hard links, etc, which scp doesn't. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 15:36:00 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 11:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How do I copy all files with scp in 1 command? In-Reply-To: <20130516145728.GD21882-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130515191051.GD27396@waltdnes.org> <20130516145728.GD21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 03:10:51PM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: | > scp * new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ | > scp \.* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ | > | > Is there a simpler way that works with 1 command? | | scp * \.* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ | | Is that simpler? What's the \ for? "." isn't a shell metacharacter. ".*" is scary since it matches "." and "..". But scp with no flags won't copy directories, so it's kind of OK. But I would think one would want to copy directories. This might be closer to what is wanted. scp -pr * .[^.]* new_machine:/home/waltdnes/ That's assuming nothing interesting starts with "..". If there were such a thing, add "..?*" (if you put it in, and it doesn't match anything, you will get an error message because it will treat it as a literal filename). Gnume (I think) plants a named pipe (I think) in a subirectory of your home diretory. scp will probably whine about copying it if it comes across it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 18:14:53 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 14:14:53 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? Message-ID: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> Hi, I'm getting 2MB/s wireless throughput on N750 dual-band router. So, something is wrong somewhere. In order to test more throughly, I need to force a connection to actually go out of the machine. How do I do that? Say, I have 2 interfaces connected to a router: - wlan0 = 192.168.1.3 -- wireless - eth0 = 192.168.1.100 -- long cable Normally, the machine simply route the connection internally. But, I need it to go to the router on "wlan0" and then back to me on "eth0", and vice versa. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 18:54:32 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 15:54:32 -0300 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <20130516181453.GA14474-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: Not directly answering your question, but a tip... If you want to test the wireless speed, put wifi and cable connections on separate subnets. If you have 2 computers, try a ping flood on the wireless interface (sudo ping -f -s 1400 ip-address). Take a look at your bandwidth (both iftop and iptraf does a good job). After that, flood ping the wired interface. If you notice a very different rate on the two nets, check if your wireless network is using a busy channel. I use airodump-ng to see what channel the networks around me are using. Or your wifi card is not that good. Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2013/5/16 William Park > Hi, > > I'm getting 2MB/s wireless throughput on N750 dual-band router. So, > something is wrong somewhere. In order to test more throughly, I need > to force a connection to actually go out of the machine. How do I do > that? > > Say, I have 2 interfaces connected to a router: > - wlan0 = 192.168.1.3 -- wireless > - eth0 = 192.168.1.100 -- long cable > Normally, the machine simply route the connection internally. But, I > need it to go to the router on "wlan0" and then back to me on "eth0", > and vice versa. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 19:58:16 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 15:58:16 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130516195816.GA16332@node1.localdomain> Thanks. Ping flood gives me 10Mbit up/down, 20Mbit combined which would agree with 2MB/s that I observed. -- William On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 03:54:32PM -0300, Mauro Souza wrote: > Not directly answering your question, but a tip... > > If you want to test the wireless speed, put wifi and cable connections on > separate subnets. If you have 2 computers, try a ping flood on the wireless > interface (sudo ping -f -s 1400 ip-address). Take a look at your bandwidth > (both iftop and iptraf does a good job). After that, flood ping the wired > interface. > > If you notice a very different rate on the two nets, check if your wireless > network is using a busy channel. I use airodump-ng to see what channel the > networks around me are using. Or your wifi card is not that good. > > Mauro > http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 > Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. > > > 2013/5/16 William Park > > > Hi, > > > > I'm getting 2MB/s wireless throughput on N750 dual-band router. So, > > something is wrong somewhere. In order to test more throughly, I need > > to force a connection to actually go out of the machine. How do I do > > that? > > > > Say, I have 2 interfaces connected to a router: > > - wlan0 = 192.168.1.3 -- wireless > > - eth0 = 192.168.1.100 -- long cable > > Normally, the machine simply route the connection internally. But, I > > need it to go to the router on "wlan0" and then back to me on "eth0", > > and vice versa. > > -- > > William > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 20:24:22 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 16:24:22 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <20130516181453.GA14474-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130516202422.GB30269@waltdnes.org> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 02:14:53PM -0400, William Park wrote > I'm getting 2MB/s wireless throughput on N750 dual-band router. So, > something is wrong somewhere. In order to test more throughly, I need > to force a connection to actually go out of the machine. How do I do > that? Do you want to force it to go via the wired or the wireless > Say, I have 2 interfaces connected to a router: > - wlan0 = 192.168.1.3 -- wireless > - eth0 = 192.168.1.100 -- long cable > Normally, the machine simply route the connection internally. But, > I need it to go to the router on "wlan0" and then back to me on > "eth0", and vice versa. You would need to, at least temporarily, add a static route. What output do you get when you execute the 2 commands... ifconfig route -n -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 20:49:10 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 16:49:10 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <20130516181453.GA14474-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <51954646.2040901@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > Normally, the machine simply route the connection internally. But, I > need it to go to the router on "wlan0" and then back to me on "eth0", > and vice versa. That's not likely to happen for a couple of reasons. 1) Since the two addresses are on the same subnet, there's no routing involved. 2) The computer will recognize the destination is itself and not send anything out through either NIC. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 20:55:12 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 16:55:12 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <20130516202422.GB30269-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> <20130516202422.GB30269@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <519547B0.3090308@rogers.com> waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >Say, I have 2 interfaces connected to a router: >> > - wlan0 = 192.168.1.3 -- wireless >> > - eth0 = 192.168.1.100 -- long cable >> >Normally, the machine simply route the connection internally. But, >> >I need it to go to the router on "wlan0" and then back to me on >> >"eth0", and vice versa. > You would need to, at least temporarily, add a static route. What > output do you get when you execute the 2 commands... There's only a bridge between the WiFi and Ethernet sides of the router. There's no routing function at all, since they're on the same subnet, Since there's no routing, there's no static route that will do what he wants. The only way around this would be if the router supported VLANs and a different VLAN and subnet were used for the two interfaces. The router would then route traffic between the two subnets/VLANs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 21:23:43 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 17:23:43 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <20130516181453.GA14474-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130516212343.GF21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 02:14:53PM -0400, William Park wrote: > I'm getting 2MB/s wireless throughput on N750 dual-band router. So, > something is wrong somewhere. In order to test more throughly, I need > to force a connection to actually go out of the machine. How do I do > that? > > Say, I have 2 interfaces connected to a router: > - wlan0 = 192.168.1.3 -- wireless > - eth0 = 192.168.1.100 -- long cable > Normally, the machine simply route the connection internally. But, I > need it to go to the router on "wlan0" and then back to me on "eth0", > and vice versa. If your kernel is 3.x or so, then this might do what you want. Example is from the git commit that added the feature. commit eed2a12f1ed9aabf0676f4d0db34aad51976c5c6 Author: Mahesh Bandewar Date: Wed May 4 15:30:11 2011 +0000 net: Allow ethtool to set interface in loopback mode. This patch enables ethtool to set the loopback mode on a given interface. By configuring the interface in loopback mode in conjunction with a policy route / rule, a userland application can stress the egress / ingress path exposing the flows of the change in progress and potentially help developer(s) understand the impact of those changes without even sending a packet out on the network. Following set of commands illustrates one such example - a) ip -4 addr add 192.168.1.1/24 dev eth1 b) ip -4 rule add from all iif eth1 lookup 250 c) ip -4 route add local 0/0 dev lo proto kernel scope host table 250 d) arp -Ds 192.168.1.100 eth1 e) arp -Ds 192.168.1.200 eth1 f) sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_nonlocal_bind=1 g) sysctl -w net.ipv4.conf.all.accept_local=1 # Assuming that the machine has 8 cores h) taskset 000f netserver -L 192.168.1.200 i) taskset 00f0 netperf -t TCP_CRR -L 192.168.1.100 -H 192.168.1.200 -l 30 Hope that makes sense. It basicly allows you to send packets with a source IP that doesn't belong to the box, and to receiver packets claiming to be from the box itself. Nifty magic. Normally you don't want a system to allow this, hence the need for sysctl changes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 21:29:45 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 17:29:45 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <20130516212343.GF21882-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> <20130516212343.GF21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51954FC9.7060502@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > It basicly allows you to send packets with a source IP that doesn't belong > to the box, and to receiver packets claiming to be from the box itself. Will the router pass "foreign" packets coming from one of it's interfaces? That's basic firewall rule stuff to prevent that from happening. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 21:33:07 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 17:33:07 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <51954646.2040901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> <51954646.2040901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130516213307.GA21962@node1.localdomain> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 04:49:10PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > William Park wrote: > >Normally, the machine simply route the connection internally. But, I > >need it to go to the router on "wlan0" and then back to me on "eth0", > >and vice versa. > > That's not likely to happen for a couple of reasons. > > 1) Since the two addresses are on the same subnet, there's no > routing involved. > 2) The computer will recognize the destination is itself and not > send anything out through either NIC. I guess I can set wlan0 and eth0 on different subnet, ie. wlan0 = 192.168.1.3 eth0 = 192.168.2.3 which means I have to add a routing entry on the router for 192.168.2 network. Still, I can't get it to go out of my machine. Googling... I found references to "marking" the packet using iptables, and then using "iproute2" to route it. But, it seems convoluted. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 21:33:37 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 17:33:37 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <51954FC9.7060502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> <20130516212343.GF21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51954FC9.7060502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130516213337.GG21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 05:29:45PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Will the router pass "foreign" packets coming from one of it's > interfaces? That's basic firewall rule stuff to prevent that from > happening. Depends what kind of interfaces they are and how the firewall is configured to work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 23:11:15 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 19:11:15 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <20130516213307.GA21962-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> <51954646.2040901@rogers.com> <20130516213307.GA21962@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <51956793.6050404@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > I guess I can set wlan0 and eth0 on different subnet, ie. > wlan0 = 192.168.1.3 > eth0 = 192.168.2.3 > which means I have to add a routing entry on the router for 192.168.2 > network. Still, I can't get it to go out of my machine. The computer is recognizing both addresses are on it and not bothering to send the traffic through the NICs. I experienced the same thing years ago, when I tried assigning an alias to an Ethernet port. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 16 23:18:07 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 19:18:07 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <20130516213337.GG21882-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> <20130516212343.GF21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51954FC9.7060502@rogers.com> <20130516213337.GG21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <5195692F.3080103@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 05:29:45PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> Will the router pass "foreign" packets coming from one of it's >> interfaces? That's basic firewall rule stuff to prevent that from >> happening. > Depends what kind of interfaces they are and how the firewall is > configured to work. > Well, with consumer level routers, the WiFi is generally bridged to the Ethernet, so it's not going to make any difference. As for allowing foreign addresses, as I mentioned, that's basic firewall stuff and it would have to be a crappy firewall that allowed it. In short, the router portion should not pass any traffic from an address that's not within it's configured subnet. This is done to prevent spoofing. On the other hand, industrial level routers can be configured to do that, with appropriate rules. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 17 13:50:08 2013 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 09:50:08 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <518EDBC0.30101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51963590.3080709@gmail.com> Is it possible to reverse the compose key order? Emacs allowed a "postfix input method" where for example I could type "e" + "`" and get "?". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 17 14:22:54 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 10:22:54 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <51963590.3080709-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <51963590.3080709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51963D3E.1040804@gmail.com> On 13-05-17 09:50 AM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Is it possible to reverse the compose key order? > > Emacs allowed a "postfix input method" where for example I could type > "e" + "`" and get "?". Yes, in many cases they are equivalent. I can type either and they come out as expected. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 17 15:12:46 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 11:12:46 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <5195692F.3080103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> <20130516212343.GF21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51954FC9.7060502@rogers.com> <20130516213337.GG21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <5195692F.3080103@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130517151246.GH21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 07:18:07PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Well, with consumer level routers, the WiFi is generally bridged to > the Ethernet, so it's not going to make any difference. As for > allowing foreign addresses, as I mentioned, that's basic firewall > stuff and it would have to be a crappy firewall that allowed it. In > short, the router portion should not pass any traffic from an > address that's not within it's configured subnet. This is done to > prevent spoofing. On the other hand, industrial level routers can > be configured to do that, with appropriate rules. Actually many routers I have seen have the wlan software bridged to the lan ports. In fact I am not sure I have ever seen one that wasn't done that way given the AP has to control the wifi port a lot, which would perhaps be harder if it was hardware bridged to the switch chip. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 17 15:14:01 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 11:14:01 -0400 Subject: Question about Compose key In-Reply-To: <51963590.3080709-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <518EDBC0.30101@gmail.com> <51963590.3080709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130517151401.GI21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 09:50:08AM -0400, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Is it possible to reverse the compose key order? Sometimes. But for example, compose of ?! and !? give different results. > Emacs allowed a "postfix input method" where for example I could > type "e" + "`" and get "?". -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 17 15:53:38 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 11:53:38 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <20130517151246.GH21882-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> <20130516212343.GF21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51954FC9.7060502@rogers.com> <20130516213337.GG21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <5195692F.3080103@rogers.com> <20130517151246.GH21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51965282.10207@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 07:18:07PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> >Well, with consumer level routers, the WiFi is generally bridged to >> >the Ethernet, so it's not going to make any difference. As for >> >allowing foreign addresses, as I mentioned, that's basic firewall >> >stuff and it would have to be a crappy firewall that allowed it. In >> >short, the router portion should not pass any traffic from an >> >address that's not within it's configured subnet. This is done to >> >prevent spoofing. On the other hand, industrial level routers can >> >be configured to do that, with appropriate rules. > Actually many routers I have seen have the wlan software bridged to the > lan ports. > > In fact I am not sure I have ever seen one that wasn't done that way > given the AP has to control the wifi port a lot, which would perhaps be > harder if it was hardware bridged to the switch chip. There's a whole lot that goes on between WiFi and the Ethernet switch part of those consumer routers. Regardless, when all is said and done, Wifi traffic appears on that switch as though it came in via Ethernet. It's the same thing with stand alone access points, as I have here. It's plain Ethernet traffic, after the WiFi has been handled. Other than apparent bandwidth, there's no way a user could tell if they were connected over WiFi or Ethernet, as the WiFi function is completely transparent in that regard. As an experiment, ping a device connected via WiFi and then check your arp cache. You will see the MAC address of that device, which means it's effectively on the switch or "bridged"? to the network. If it passed through the router, you would not see any MAC for it, though the router's MAC would be listed. 1. A bridge and a switch are logically the same device in that they work at the Ethernet level and reduce/eliminate collision domains. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 17 16:14:16 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 12:14:16 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <51965282.10207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> <20130516212343.GF21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51954FC9.7060502@rogers.com> <20130516213337.GG21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <5195692F.3080103@rogers.com> <20130517151246.GH21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51965282.10207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51965758.4060001@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 07:18:07PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> >Well, with consumer level routers, the WiFi is generally bridged to >>> >the Ethernet, so it's not going to make any difference. As for >>> >allowing foreign addresses, as I mentioned, that's basic firewall >>> >stuff and it would have to be a crappy firewall that allowed it. In >>> >short, the router portion should not pass any traffic from an >>> >address that's not within it's configured subnet. This is done to >>> >prevent spoofing. On the other hand, industrial level routers can >>> >be configured to do that, with appropriate rules. >> Actually many routers I have seen have the wlan software bridged to the >> lan ports. >> >> In fact I am not sure I have ever seen one that wasn't done that way >> given the AP has to control the wifi port a lot, which would perhaps be >> harder if it was hardware bridged to the switch chip. > > There's a whole lot that goes on between WiFi and the Ethernet switch > part of those consumer routers. Regardless, when all is said and > done, Wifi traffic appears on that switch as though it came in via > Ethernet. It's the same thing with stand alone access points, as I > have here. It's plain Ethernet traffic, after the WiFi has been > handled. Other than apparent bandwidth, there's no way a user could > tell if they were connected over WiFi or Ethernet, as the WiFi > function is completely transparent in that regard. As an experiment, > ping a device connected via WiFi and then check your arp cache. You > will see the MAC address of that device, which means it's effectively > on the switch or "bridged"? to the network. If it passed through the > router, you would not see any MAC for it, though the router's MAC > would be listed. > > 1. A bridge and a switch are logically the same device in that they > work at the Ethernet level and reduce/eliminate collision domains. > Forgot to mention, there are a couple of good WiFi books from O'Reilly, written by Matthew Gast. They are "802.11 Networks" and "802.11n A Survival Guide" The 802.11 Networks book goes into great deal on how WiFi devices are made to appear as though they're connected via Ethernet. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 17 17:11:19 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 13:11:19 -0400 Subject: How to force a connection to go out of machine? In-Reply-To: <51965282.10207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130516181453.GA14474@node1.localdomain> <20130516212343.GF21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51954FC9.7060502@rogers.com> <20130516213337.GG21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <5195692F.3080103@rogers.com> <20130517151246.GH21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51965282.10207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130517171119.GJ21882@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:53:38AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > There's a whole lot that goes on between WiFi and the Ethernet > switch part of those consumer routers. Regardless, when all is said > and done, Wifi traffic appears on that switch as though it came in > via Ethernet. It's the same thing with stand alone access points, > as I have here. It's plain Ethernet traffic, after the WiFi has > been handled. Other than apparent bandwidth, there's no way a user > could tell if they were connected over WiFi or Ethernet, as the WiFi > function is completely transparent in that regard. As an > experiment, ping a device connected via WiFi and then check your arp > cache. You will see the MAC address of that device, which means > it's effectively on the switch or "bridged"? to the network. If it > passed through the router, you would not see any MAC for it, though > the router's MAC would be listed. > > 1. A bridge and a switch are logically the same device in that they > work at the Ethernet level and reduce/eliminate collision domains. Certainly it is either bridged in linux using brctl in software, or they are connected in hardware. Same result, other than the cpu load needed for software bridging. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 04:40:46 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 00:40:46 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi Message-ID: Hi all. OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. Maybe more than one. Probably to play around with, but maybe ultimately as a home theatre client running Rasplex. Now ... about procurement... The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? (I'm looking to get a Model B) Is the system fast enough to run KDE? And finally ... what are people doing for cases? Thanks! -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nicholas-D2Whf1L5i00 at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 05:11:49 2013 From: nicholas-D2Whf1L5i00 at public.gmane.org (Nicholas) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 01:11:49 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> Hi Evan, If you live in Toronto, I highly recommend buying your Raspberry Pi at Creatron, at College & Spadina. It'll cost you $5-10 more than ordering from a distributor, but it's worth it to not have to deal with shipping (which will cost you anyway). Also: instant gratification! If you want to run your Pi as a media system, you should look into buying Codec licenses from raspberrypi.org -- this will activate the hardware video decoding acceleration for smooth video. Also, try to use the audio-over-HDMI capability for a home theatre system -- the audio-out jack doesn't have much in the way of an amplifier on that circuit, so if you use it instead of HDMI-audio you may need a pre-amp. As for cases, we at Hacklab.to have been laser-cutting cases out of acrylic, using a design created by AdaFruit. Scott Sullivan has been awesome with this, and has produced most of the cases that are now adorning RP's around the lab. If you drop him a line (scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org), assuming he has some available he might be willing to part with a case or two for a small sum to cover his time/cost, or a couple of beers. Scott offered to cut a case for me when I bought an RP and it turned out *great*, so hopefully he still produces them. There are also commercial cases available from lots of hobby electronics places (including Creatron), so you should hunt around. I like the AdaFruit case best, but the Pibow ( http://shop.pimoroni.com/products/pibow ) is a pretty gorgeous second choice. With regards to KDE... eh, maybe. I kind of doubt it. Mine runs a lightweight window manager and kind of strains to keep up with anything that needs heavy computing power, or is graphics intensive. But you should experiment and find out! Maybe someone has already proved me wrong? Worst case scenario is that you yank out the SD card and dd a new Raspbian image to it. Which reminds me -- you'll want an SD card. I got a high speed Phillips 16GB SD card from Fortune Computers (also at College & Spadina) for $10. It does a pretty good job. --Nicholas On 18/05/13 12:40 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi all. > > OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. Maybe more than > one. Probably to play around with, but maybe ultimately as a home > theatre client running Rasplex. > > Now ... about procurement... > > The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both > appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping > costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is > there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? > > (I'm looking to get a Model B) > > Is the system fast enough to run KDE? > > And finally ... what are people doing for cases? > > Thanks! > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > Toronto Canada > > Em: evan at telly dot org > Sk: evanleibovitch > Tw: el56 > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 10:10:21 2013 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 07:10:21 -0300 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <51970D95.6010009-D2Whf1L5i00@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> Message-ID: Hello Evan, As Em s?bado, 18 de maio de 2013, Nicholas escreveu: > Hi Evan, > > If you live in Toronto, I highly recommend buying your Raspberry Pi at > Creatron, at College & Spadina. It'll cost you $5-10 more than ordering > from a distributor, but it's worth it to not have to deal with shipping > (which will cost you anyway). Also: instant gratification! > > If you want to run your Pi as a media system, you should look into > buying Codec licenses from raspberrypi.org -- this will activate the > hardware video decoding acceleration for smooth video. Also, try to use > the audio-over-HDMI capability for a home theatre system -- the > audio-out jack doesn't have much in the way of an amplifier on that > circuit, so if you use it instead of HDMI-audio you may need a pre-amp. > > As for cases, we at Hacklab.to have been laser-cutting cases out of > acrylic, using a design created by AdaFruit. Scott Sullivan has been > awesome with this, and has produced most of the cases that are now > adorning RP's around the lab. If you drop him a line (scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > ), > assuming he has some available he might be willing to part with a case > or two for a small sum to cover his time/cost, or a couple of beers. > Scott offered to cut a case for me when I bought an RP and it turned out > *great*, so hopefully he still produces them. > > There are also commercial cases available from lots of hobby electronics > places (including Creatron), so you should hunt around. I like the > AdaFruit case best, but the Pibow ( > http://shop.pimoroni.com/products/pibow ) is a pretty gorgeous second > choice. > > With regards to KDE... eh, maybe. I kind of doubt it. Mine runs a > lightweight window manager and kind of strains to keep up with anything > that needs heavy computing power, or is graphics intensive. But you > should experiment and find out! Maybe someone has already proved me > wrong? Worst case scenario is that you yank out the SD card and dd a > new Raspbian image to it. > > Which reminds me -- you'll want an SD card. I got a high speed Phillips > 16GB SD card from Fortune Computers (also at College & Spadina) for $10. > It does a pretty good job. > > --Nicholas > > > > On 18/05/13 12:40 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Hi all. > > > > OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. Maybe more than > > one. Probably to play around with, but maybe ultimately as a home > > theatre client running Rasplex. > > > > Now ... about procurement... > > > > The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both > > appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping > > costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is > > there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? > > > > (I'm looking to get a Model B) > > > > Is the system fast enough to run KDE? > > > > And finally ... what are people doing for cases? > > > > Thanks! > > > > -- > > Evan Leibovitch > > Toronto Canada > > > > Em: evan at telly dot org > > Sk: evanleibovitch > > Tw: el56 > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib P?s-Graduando em Governan?a de Tecnologia da Informa??o - EST?CIO/FIC Graduado em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 10:21:50 2013 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 07:21:50 -0300 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <51970D95.6010009-D2Whf1L5i00@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> Message-ID: Hello Evan, As Nicholas said, i think you won't be able to run kde. Sure, you can install it if you have enough SD space, and sure, you can launch it. But don't expect to click on the K menu and see the menu appearing In one second. You can try it yourself and see what will gonna happen. Just to let you know, I have a model B running arch linux with fluxbox. Also dedicated 2gb of my SD only to work as a swap partition. And, in this case, i'm still not brave enough to start my fluxbox and run more then 3 GUI apps at the same time, and I meant 3 light GUI apps, for example Midore instead of Firefox, etc. And even with fluxbox, it's kind of slow. But, you can always try it yourself. But I really think you won't get a good performance running KDE on it, maybe if you wait them to release the "light" kde. I'm also waiting for it. https://trello.com/board/klyde/515be014e9d9a5cf48007e01 Best regards and good luck, Em s?bado, 18 de maio de 2013, Nicholas escreveu: > Hi Evan, > > If you live in Toronto, I highly recommend buying your Raspberry Pi at > Creatron, at College & Spadina. It'll cost you $5-10 more than ordering > from a distributor, but it's worth it to not have to deal with shipping > (which will cost you anyway). Also: instant gratification! > > If you want to run your Pi as a media system, you should look into > buying Codec licenses from raspberrypi.org -- this will activate the > hardware video decoding acceleration for smooth video. Also, try to use > the audio-over-HDMI capability for a home theatre system -- the > audio-out jack doesn't have much in the way of an amplifier on that > circuit, so if you use it instead of HDMI-audio you may need a pre-amp. > > As for cases, we at Hacklab.to have been laser-cutting cases out of > acrylic, using a design created by AdaFruit. Scott Sullivan has been > awesome with this, and has produced most of the cases that are now > adorning RP's around the lab. If you drop him a line (scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > ), > assuming he has some available he might be willing to part with a case > or two for a small sum to cover his time/cost, or a couple of beers. > Scott offered to cut a case for me when I bought an RP and it turned out > *great*, so hopefully he still produces them. > > There are also commercial cases available from lots of hobby electronics > places (including Creatron), so you should hunt around. I like the > AdaFruit case best, but the Pibow ( > http://shop.pimoroni.com/products/pibow ) is a pretty gorgeous second > choice. > > With regards to KDE... eh, maybe. I kind of doubt it. Mine runs a > lightweight window manager and kind of strains to keep up with anything > that needs heavy computing power, or is graphics intensive. But you > should experiment and find out! Maybe someone has already proved me > wrong? Worst case scenario is that you yank out the SD card and dd a > new Raspbian image to it. > > Which reminds me -- you'll want an SD card. I got a high speed Phillips > 16GB SD card from Fortune Computers (also at College & Spadina) for $10. > It does a pretty good job. > > --Nicholas > > > > On 18/05/13 12:40 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Hi all. > > > > OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. Maybe more than > > one. Probably to play around with, but maybe ultimately as a home > > theatre client running Rasplex. > > > > Now ... about procurement... > > > > The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both > > appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping > > costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is > > there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? > > > > (I'm looking to get a Model B) > > > > Is the system fast enough to run KDE? > > > > And finally ... what are people doing for cases? > > > > Thanks! > > > > -- > > Evan Leibovitch > > Toronto Canada > > > > Em: evan at telly dot org > > Sk: evanleibovitch > > Tw: el56 > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib P?s-Graduando em Governan?a de Tecnologia da Informa??o - EST?CIO/FIC Graduado em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 13:08:59 2013 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 09:08:59 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi all. > > OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. Maybe more than one. > Probably to play around with, but maybe ultimately as a home theatre client > running Rasplex. > > Now ... about procurement... > > The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both > appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping costs. > What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is there any > clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? > > (I'm looking to get a Model B) > > Is the system fast enough to run KDE? > > And finally ... what are people doing for cases? > > Thanks! > > -- > Evan Leibovitch I bought mine from Newark. If I remember, the cost with tax and shipping was $53.11 so the shipping would have been $12. I think it was Purolator. Don't know about KDE. The recommended desktop is LXDE. These are not powerful processors. The new, 512 MB ones may be better. The default split between processor and video on the old ones was 128 + 128 MB. Good luck. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 14:34:38 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 10:34:38 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 13-05-18 12:40 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. Uhoh ? I did see you get a bit amazed at what those boards can do at TLUG. If you're going to be using it as a video player, this is a good overview: http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=Raspberry_Pi/FAQ > Now ... about procurement... Creatron is good, and Lawrence actually passes through the full price from Newark, so he isn't actually more expensive than buying unit one online. College and Spadina might not be super-convenient for you, so Sayal has them for $59 at various locations around the GTA. Cost out your time and travel, and it's probably a wash. You will also need: ? USB power supply ? the more powerful, the better. Anything rated at under 1 amp may be iffy. More power is better. Anything rated for iPad use will be okay. I use the Globe two-outlet+USB power taps that you can get in Loblaw's for $12 (they're next to the lightbulbs). ? MicroUSB power cable ? There's some awful crap out there, and not all of it's cheap. Go for short and thick. There are data+charge and charge only types; you really only need the latter. I use the short Nokia cables from dx.com at $3 a pop. ? HDMI cable ? cheap ones (~$5 from College St or Active Surplus) are fine. Sayal might be $6-8. If you want to buy a Monster cable, can I also interest you in this lovely beach-front timeshare just outside Phoenix, AZ ?? ? SDHC card ? Unless you have a specific tiny embedded application, get a brand-name Class 10 32 GB SDHC. Whatever Canada Computers had as their weekly special is what I use. Technically, you should check the compatible cards list (http://elinux.org/RPi_SD_cards) first. ? codecs ? yes, it's worth springing a few bucks for these (http://www.raspberrypi.com/) if you want to play MPEG-2 or VC-1. I think the recent firmware has some pretty spiffy codecs built in for free. ? ethernet cable ? unless you're going wireless ? powered USB hub ? optional, but the Raspberry Pi has very little protection on its USB ports, and hot-plugging something has a good chance of resetting or hanging the board. Also, since the Raspberry Pi only has two USB ports and the keyboard will use at least one, you're going to need more at some point. ? keyboard/mouse/wireless/bluetooth ? check http://elinux.org/RPi_VerifiedPeripherals first. Some don't work at all, some draw too much power. All the stuff you think you know works 'cos of the x86 hegemony many not work on the ARM-based Raspberry Pi. > Is the system fast enough to run KDE? Maybe for extremely small values of ?fast?? ? The folks at The MagPi (a magazine about the board that I've written for, http://www.themagpi.com/) did used to run LibreOffice and Scribus on Raspberry Pis. I don't think they enjoyed it, though. > And finally ... what are people doing for cases? I think the Allied (or whoever's aligned with RS [Radio Spares]) ship it in a small plastic box that can be used as a case ? it has cutouts for ports, and most importantly, the SD card is fully enclosed. I have both the PiBow and the Adafruit cases. The PiBow is very pretty, but fiddly to build. The Adafruit one is basically a mechanism until you get the last part in place, but is easy to disassemble if you need to add an RTC/GPIO cable. cheers, Stewart -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRl5F+AAoJEA7kB83rJlsGgFYQAKYrvHg8E5Vn6/LparEjWEzG nJwXKuim+1UI3X+ca8IwUvYZAWhO+9O7m/CC+D8YsRQobkJD/8z5PoKZKYiImDp6 J8xsqVDTnwIIyd1QBHMEZjEl0VJMVp0Fg9Yv50gpYpiPZP7V6g/kSbfozghsw2yX 5Pi6B0C1kqayEG9Rz4cLx5JNuOgAyMr3YGm3re+gN2iNKhAuTgaFE4Hr6vNKhWlE BK93qwH9Ab1rXEK8qDH5gwdz+uRE8v4nOPsoCx/mxTewEib1VZyOtYlhy15/uh2y 7C25mLWZGZZm4LrA50nLIdZE3P7u+rTdMxJvCZ9PxeLsl9la3AwkK6rMHojeLzXQ btoTMgPbvTuXhHgo3qpiS7t5Ns6Lu4ssbzy7AEx22qI4ZuPHixvXUBxMjQGqZy1i SiZQFfd57Qje2TcVQP9sdlWolnOng1NLCFTLan2BJx3W44La1vmB/aEk8nrH3YSp QQn4mrLibz2Jp4WCUpHoZGjFPQ41Y/FLqsGpOnItWiQlIG9u1TQI5NHfgZYwV42Q M4VivTnxyKMtgHApicxO2dUvCEGnf3dQWsMG9iGNypSTrBF2S9hsExKZVELA4d3R SYcL4HscnMxdwUmSkqpRtmvavai8fn7HnA2uLeo60ZVM/R6vKJ8ekOAOmB+JMHa2 cUh6LdioM8eFAf5RAMKg =dad5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 15:06:22 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 11:06:22 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Might I suggest something like this: http://www.geekbuying.com/item/MK808B-Dual-Core-Android-4-1-Jelly-Bean-TV-BOX-RK3066-Cortex-A9-1GB-RAM-8GB-ROM-Mini-PC-TV-Box---Black-313213.html There's a ton of these small stick-like machines out there that primarily run Android, but there are Linux builds for them as well. This one is a dual-core processor. There's also some quad-core processors out there now. This one has built in wifi and bluetooth. On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi all. > > OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. Maybe more than one. > Probably to play around with, but maybe ultimately as a home theatre client > running Rasplex. > > Now ... about procurement... > > The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both > appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping > costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is > there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? > > (I'm looking to get a Model B) > > Is the system fast enough to run KDE? > > And finally ... what are people doing for cases? > > Thanks! > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > Toronto Canada > > Em: evan at telly dot org > Sk: evanleibovitch > Tw: el56 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 15:11:03 2013 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 11:11:03 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <5197917E.8090307-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > On 13-05-18 12:40 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >> OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. > > [. . ..] > > You will also need: > > ? USB power supply ? the more powerful, the better. [. . .] > > ? MicroUSB power cable ? [. . .] > > [. . .] > > ? ethernet cable ? unless you're going wireless You could skip the PS, connect the Pi to a laptop by USB to micro-USB for power, and CAT5 for network (the Pi is auto-sensing) and SSH into it. Needs a bit of network sharing on the laptop. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 15:54:29 2013 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 11:54:29 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2d47256c65a260d38385475b765c1f37.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> You could check with Creatron on College Street. I think he's carrying them. But I don't know the exact model. Maybe also the Home Hardware/Supremetronics redux place, also on College. Peter > Hi all. > > OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. Maybe more than one. > Probably to play around with, but maybe ultimately as a home theatre > client > running Rasplex. > > Now ... about procurement... > > The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both > appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping > costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is > there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? > > (I'm looking to get a Model B) > > Is the system fast enough to run KDE? > > And finally ... what are people doing for cases? > > Thanks! > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > Toronto Canada > > Em: evan at telly dot org > Sk: evanleibovitch > Tw: el56 > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 16:08:22 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 12:08:22 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5197A776.7070703@gmail.com> On 13-05-18 11:11 AM, John Martin wrote: > > You could skip the PS, connect the Pi to a laptop by USB to micro-USB > for power, and CAT5 for network (the Pi is auto-sensing) and SSH into > it. Yeah, that can work, though some laptops are too stingy with the current if they don't recognize a USB device. > Needs a bit of network sharing on the laptop. Which I had working fine on the Mac, but it's eluding me so far on this Ubuntu notebook. Any hints, please? cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 16:15:34 2013 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 12:15:34 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <5197A776.7070703-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> <5197A776.7070703@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5197A926.1090204@teksavvy.com> On 05/18/2013 12:08 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 13-05-18 11:11 AM, John Martin wrote: >> >> You could skip the PS, connect the Pi to a laptop by USB to micro-USB >> for power, and CAT5 for network (the Pi is auto-sensing) and SSH into >> it. > > Yeah, that can work, though some laptops are too stingy with the current > if they don't recognize a USB device. hub + line power? > >> Needs a bit of network sharing on the laptop. > > Which I had working fine on the Mac, but it's eluding me so far on this > Ubuntu notebook. Any hints, please? > > cheers, > Stewart > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Elliott Chapin: clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 16:32:46 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 12:32:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Evan Leibovitch | OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. Maybe more than one. | Probably to play around with, but maybe ultimately as a home theatre client | running Rasplex. I think that they are great toys, and a bargain. If you want a "production" HTPC, you might be ahead with something that is less DIY. It depends on how you value several dimensions: openness, community, price, required effort, perfection. In the worst case, you'll learn a lot from the RP, even if you end up wanting something else. One neat feature of the RP: CEC support. That means it can control your devices over HDMI. | Now ... about procurement... | | The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both | appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping | costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is | there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? I've bought a few from Newark. They charged me $8 shipping and were very very quick. Slight hickups: - they've advertised free shipping a couple of times but in the fine print exclude shipping to Canada. Once was on their Canadian web page; another in email to me, even though they have my location. Grr. - once I ordered two RPs and two power supplies. They were backordered on the RPs so they made it two shipments, charging me twice for shipping. Apparently I missed the tick box to request that everything to be shipped in one shipment. Their phone people are not like mass-market CSRs. That's good. Their power supplies are $7.00 (including the cable). You could hunt them down for less. | And finally ... what are people doing for cases? I've cut a few cases at Hacklab. Scott is the expert. Paul Wouters really helped me. The blank plexiglas came from Plastic World, in your neck of the woods. Slightly tricky: get the right thickness (my first attempt used slightly too thick stock that I had already; the result was cracking as I forced the bits together). The cases from Newark are probably fine. Just less in the DIY spirit. | From: Nicholas | Which reminds me -- you'll want an SD card. I got a high speed Phillips | 16GB SD card from Fortune Computers (also at College & Spadina) for $10. | It does a pretty good job. I've heard that Sandisk SDs do better than (most?) others because of their superior performance on short writes. I've not verified this. | From: John Martin | I bought mine from Newark. If I remember, the cost with tax and | shipping was $53.11 so the shipping would have been $12. I think it | was Purolator. Maybe my $8 charges were sale prices, but that's what I've paid each time, as far as I recollect. I think that that is a minimum charge and would increase when the mass reaches a certain threshold. Hmm... from their FAQ: Standard delivery We use Canada UPS for next day delivery to all major cities in Canada. Please add additional days for remote locations. All deliveries will be shipped UPS at a shipping cost of $8.00 CDN per parcel up to 50 lbs. Shipments greater than 50 lbs will ship ground with the cost based on the actual weight. | From: Stewart C. Russell | ? HDMI cable ? cheap ones (~$5 from College St or Active Surplus) are | fine. Sayal might be $6-8. If you want to buy a Monster cable, can I | also interest you in this lovely beach-front timeshare just outside | Phoenix, AZ ?? Short ones are even cheaper from Dollarama. | ? powered USB hub ? optional, but the Raspberry Pi has very little | protection on its USB ports, and hot-plugging something has a good | chance of resetting or hanging the board. Will a powered hub prevent that? I've only once tried hotplugging on the RP, and it wasn't successful. Apparently a well-known bug. | > And finally ... what are people doing for cases? | | I think the Allied (or whoever's aligned with RS [Radio Spares]) ship | it in a small plastic box that can be used as a case ? it has cutouts | for ports, and most importantly, the SD card is fully enclosed. Neat! Scott (I think) recommended Newark and I've stuck with them. | From: Tim Tisdall | Might I suggest something like this: | http://www.geekbuying.com/item/MK808B-Dual-Core-Android-4-1-Jelly-Bean-TV-BOX-RK3066-Cortex-A9-1GB-RAM-8GB-ROM-Mini-PC-TV-Box---Black-313213.html | | There's a ton of these small stick-like machines out there that primarily | run Android, but there are Linux builds for them as well. This one is a | dual-core processor. There's also some quad-core processors out there now. | This one has built in wifi and bluetooth. Those are intriguing. I've not tried them. Not as much of a culture of open-source hacking. These have much more CPU horsepower than the RP. Doubly so for the quad core ones. And more RAM -- most have 1G but the quad core ones have 2G. I think that the RP's video is more powerful (but less open, oddly enough). They might have better I/O bandwidth that the RP. In the RP, All SD, USB, and ethernet goes through a single internal USB 2.0 port, which sure sounds like a bottleneck. I don't know the topology of these sticks. These sticks are specialized for HTPC so might be better for that purpose. Is there a reasonable ordinary linux distro for these? Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/Arch/...? Most of the activity appears to be custom permutations of Android, key parts of which are binary-only. The Geekbuying link you gave is for US$44, a very attractive price. They have quad cores for twice that price too. From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 16:53:53 2013 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 12:53:53 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi(s) In-Reply-To: <5197A926.1090204-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> <5197A776.7070703@gmail.com> <5197A926.1090204@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: A rasberry pi cluster. http://coen.boisestate.edu/ece/files/2013/05/Rasp.-Pi.pdf Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 18:50:00 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 14:50:00 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <51970D95.6010009-D2Whf1L5i00@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> Message-ID: <5197CD58.9010107@rogers.com> Nicholas wrote: > If you live in Toronto, I highly recommend buying your Raspberry Pi at > Creatron, at College & Spadina. It'll cost you $5-10 more than ordering > from a distributor, but it's worth it to not have to deal with shipping > (which will cost you anyway). Also: instant gratification! > FWIW, there's a couple of articles in the May Linux Journal about using the Pi. IIRC, one was about a server and the other, an IPv6 capable WiFi access point/router. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 19:19:50 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 15:19:50 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Tim Tisdall wrote: > Might I suggest something like this: > http://www.geekbuying.com/item/MK808B-Dual-Core-Android-4-1-Jelly-Bean-TV-BOX-RK3066-Cortex-A9-1GB-RAM-8GB-ROM-Mini-PC-TV-Box---Black-313213.html > > There's a ton of these small stick-like machines out there that primarily > run Android, but there are Linux builds for them as well. This one is a > dual-core processor. There's also some quad-core processors out there now. > This one has built in wifi and bluetooth. There's also the new BeagleBone Black which supports Angstrom, Ubuntu & Android. It's available from Newark (where all of my Pi's and peripherals came from) for $45 (+s/h) And from Creatron for $54.55 -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 20:28:27 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 16:28:27 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130518202827.GA20453@node1.localdomain> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 12:32:46PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Evan Leibovitch > | Now ... about procurement... > | > | The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both > | appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping > | costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is > | there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? > > I've bought a few from Newark. They charged me $8 shipping and were > very very quick. Slight hickups: Newark forced me to create an account with credit card first, before they tell me total cost. You are not allowed to store credit cards, even encrypted (well, last time I dealt with PCI rules). So, I don't know how they get away with that. I went with Mouser when I orderd Beaglebone Black ($45 + $8 US Postal Service). -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 20:33:27 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 16:33:27 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <20130518202827.GA20453-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> <20130518202827.GA20453@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130518203327.GA20530@node1.localdomain> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 04:28:27PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 12:32:46PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > | From: Evan Leibovitch > > | Now ... about procurement... > > | > > | The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both > > | appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping > > | costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is > > | there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? > > > > I've bought a few from Newark. They charged me $8 shipping and were > > very very quick. Slight hickups: > > Newark forced me to create an account with credit card first, before > they tell me total cost. You are not allowed to store credit cards, > even encrypted (well, last time I dealt with PCI rules). So, I don't > know how they get away with that. I went with Mouser when I orderd > Beaglebone Black ($45 + $8 US Postal Service). Correction... $48.15 + $8 -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 22:11:01 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 18:11:01 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring Message-ID: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> Hi, I had it with wireless speed, so I'm thinking about running wires around outside of my house. I have question... - For crossover cable, some say just cross two pairs (Green/Orange), but others say cross all four pairs (Green/Orange and Blue/Brown). Which is right? - Should I use T568A or T568B? Some say T568B, but others (citing US Gov) say T568A. Well, crossover cable is essentially going from T568A to T568B, but only for Green/Orange. As long as the two ends are the same, should it matter? - Any recommendation for store that sells decent (in quality/price) ethernet cable and crimping tools and parts? Default is Home Depot. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 22:18:01 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 18:18:01 -0400 Subject: (question) Electrical power bar Message-ID: <20130518221801.GA21091@node1.localdomain> Hi, Has anyone seen electrical power bar, where sockets are spaced out to accommodate DC adapters and laid out horizontally? Sockets on most power bars are too close and oriented vertically (like wall socket). So, 1 DC adapter is taking up 3 sockets. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paultarvydas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 22:26:49 2013 From: paultarvydas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Tarvydas) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 18:26:49 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: <20130518221101.GA21053-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <51980029.6060708@gmail.com> Check Sayal Electronics http://www.sayal.com/zinc/index.asp pt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 18 23:25:30 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 19:25:30 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: <20130518221101.GA21053-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <51980DEA.4000907@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > Hi, > > I had it with wireless speed, so I'm thinking about running wires around > outside of my house. I have question... > > - For crossover cable, some say just cross two pairs (Green/Orange), > but others say cross all four pairs (Green/Orange and Blue/Brown). > Which is right? Only the green & orange. The others are not used at 10 or 100 Mb. At Gigabit, all 4 pairs are used, but there's no crossover needed at that speed. Also, newer switches etc. can autoconfig for crossover. BTW, why do you need to crossover? Normal wiring is straight through and you'd only use a crossover to connect 2 computers directly or two switches that don't support autodetect. > > - Should I use T568A or T568B? Some say T568B, but others (citing > US Gov) say T568A. Well, crossover cable is essentially going > from T568A to T568B, but only for Green/Orange. As long as the > two ends are the same, should it matter? The actual colours don't matter, so long as you're consistent and don't mix pairs. So you could make up your own colour code if you wished. However, I generally prefer T568A, which keeps the blue and green apart, making it easier to spot wiring errors. > > - Any recommendation for store that sells decent (in quality/price) > ethernet cable and crimping tools and parts? Default is Home > Depot. I generally go to Sayal. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 00:09:46 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 20:09:46 -0400 Subject: (question) Electrical power bar In-Reply-To: <20130518221801.GA21091-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221801.GA21091@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: Sure, such can be found at home improvement places like Rona or Home Depot, or the classic Canada Computers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 00:20:44 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 20:20:44 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> Message-ID: Here's another website where they specialize in the devices they've gotten Linux working on: https://www.miniand.com/ I've personally put Linaro Ubuntu on the Hackberry and the GK802. I've got an Mk808B but haven't had a chance to work on getting a Linux distro working on it. Here's a blog posting from the person who I followed to get Ubuntu working on the GK802: http://jas-hacks.blogspot.ca/2013/05/imx6-gk802-xubuntu-1204.html I haven't tried any video acceleration stuff as I don't need it for the application I'm using them for, but some of the devices do have drivers for it. Jas says he's gotten it working on the Gk802. On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 12:32 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Evan Leibovitch > > | OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. Maybe more than one. > | Probably to play around with, but maybe ultimately as a home theatre > client > | running Rasplex. > > I think that they are great toys, and a bargain. If you want a > "production" HTPC, you might be ahead with something that is less DIY. > It depends on how you value several dimensions: openness, community, > price, required effort, perfection. > > In the worst case, you'll learn a lot from the RP, even if you end up > wanting something else. > > One neat feature of the RP: CEC support. That means it can control > your devices over HDMI. > > | Now ... about procurement... > | > | The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both > | appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping > | costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is > | there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? > > I've bought a few from Newark. They charged me $8 shipping and were > very very quick. Slight hickups: > > - they've advertised free shipping a couple of times but in the fine > print exclude shipping to Canada. Once was on their Canadian web > page; another in email to me, even though they have my location. > Grr. > > - once I ordered two RPs and two power supplies. They were backordered > on the RPs so they made it two shipments, charging me twice for > shipping. Apparently I missed the tick box to request that everything > to be shipped in one shipment. > > Their phone people are not like mass-market CSRs. That's good. > > Their power supplies are $7.00 (including the cable). You could hunt them > down for less. > > | And finally ... what are people doing for cases? > > I've cut a few cases at Hacklab. Scott is the expert. Paul Wouters > really helped me. The blank plexiglas came from Plastic World, in > your neck of the woods. Slightly tricky: get the right thickness (my > first attempt used slightly too thick stock that I had already; the > result was cracking as I forced the bits together). > > The cases from Newark are probably fine. Just less in the DIY spirit. > > | From: Nicholas > > | Which reminds me -- you'll want an SD card. I got a high speed Phillips > | 16GB SD card from Fortune Computers (also at College & Spadina) for $10. > | It does a pretty good job. > > I've heard that Sandisk SDs do better than (most?) others because of > their superior performance on short writes. I've not verified this. > > > > | From: John Martin > > | I bought mine from Newark. If I remember, the cost with tax and > | shipping was $53.11 so the shipping would have been $12. I think it > | was Purolator. > > Maybe my $8 charges were sale prices, but that's what I've paid each > time, as far as I recollect. I think that that is a minimum charge > and would increase when the mass reaches a certain threshold. > > Hmm... from their FAQ: > > > Standard delivery > > We use Canada UPS for next day delivery to all major cities in Canada. > Please add additional days for remote locations. All deliveries will be > shipped UPS at a shipping cost of $8.00 CDN per parcel up to 50 lbs. > Shipments greater than 50 lbs will ship ground with the cost based on > the > actual weight. > > | From: Stewart C. Russell > > | ? HDMI cable ? cheap ones (~$5 from College St or Active Surplus) are > | fine. Sayal might be $6-8. If you want to buy a Monster cable, can I > | also interest you in this lovely beach-front timeshare just outside > | Phoenix, AZ ?? > > Short ones are even cheaper from Dollarama. > > | ? powered USB hub ? optional, but the Raspberry Pi has very little > | protection on its USB ports, and hot-plugging something has a good > | chance of resetting or hanging the board. > > Will a powered hub prevent that? I've only once tried hotplugging on > the RP, and it wasn't successful. Apparently a well-known bug. > > | > And finally ... what are people doing for cases? > | > | I think the Allied (or whoever's aligned with RS [Radio Spares]) ship > | it in a small plastic box that can be used as a case ? it has cutouts > | for ports, and most importantly, the SD card is fully enclosed. > > Neat! > > Scott (I think) recommended Newark and I've stuck with them. > > | From: Tim Tisdall > > | Might I suggest something like this: > | > http://www.geekbuying.com/item/MK808B-Dual-Core-Android-4-1-Jelly-Bean-TV-BOX-RK3066-Cortex-A9-1GB-RAM-8GB-ROM-Mini-PC-TV-Box---Black-313213.html > | > | There's a ton of these small stick-like machines out there that primarily > | run Android, but there are Linux builds for them as well. This one is a > | dual-core processor. There's also some quad-core processors out there > now. > | This one has built in wifi and bluetooth. > > Those are intriguing. I've not tried them. Not as much of a culture > of open-source hacking. > > These have much more CPU horsepower than the RP. Doubly so for the > quad core ones. And more RAM -- most have 1G but the quad core ones > have 2G. > > I think that the RP's video is more powerful (but less open, oddly > enough). > > They might have better I/O bandwidth that the RP. In the RP, All SD, > USB, and ethernet goes through a single internal USB 2.0 port, which > sure sounds like a bottleneck. I don't know the topology of these > sticks. > > These sticks are specialized for HTPC so might be better for that > purpose. > > Is there a reasonable ordinary linux distro for these? > Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/Arch/...? Most of the activity appears to be > custom permutations of Android, key parts of which are binary-only. > > The Geekbuying link you gave is for US$44, a very attractive price. > They have quad cores for twice that price too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 01:24:37 2013 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 21:24:37 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <5197A776.7070703-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> <5197A776.7070703@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 13-05-18 11:11 AM, John Martin wrote: >> >> You could skip the PS, connect the Pi to a laptop by USB to micro-USB >> for power, and CAT5 for network (the Pi is auto-sensing) and SSH into >> it. > >> Needs a bit of network sharing on the laptop. > > Which I had working fine on the Mac, but it's eluding me so far on this > Ubuntu notebook. Any hints, please? Your Ubuntu notebook has WiFi and a wired Ethernet port I would guess. I'm doing this from a Linux Mint setup but if I remember, Ubuntu shows an "Edit Network Connections" option when you click the networking notification on the bar at the top. You should see "Wired" and "Wireless". Leave "Wireless" alone as that's how you connect to the Internet. Select "Wired", then click options and you should see "Editing Wired connection 1" (or similar). Look under the IPv4 Settings tab. Under Method, change to "Share to other computers". That's it. The OS looks after all the routing. Your Pi, which should be set for DHCP, will be assigned an IP of 10.0.42.42 (or 10.42.0.42, I don't remember - ifconfig will give you clues). I think I had to invoke nmap to actually discover that. Look for an open Port 22. To go back to using the wired port as a regular wired network connection, change it back to "Automatic (DHCP)". I hope this helps. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 02:23:29 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 22:23:29 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> <5197A776.7070703@gmail.com> Message-ID: <519837A1.8090309@gmail.com> On 13-05-18 09:24 PM, John Martin wrote: > > "Editing Wired connection 1" (or similar). Look under the IPv4 > Settings tab. Under Method, change to "Share to other computers". > That's it. The OS looks after all the routing. Your Pi, which should > be set for DHCP, will be assigned an IP of 10.0.42.42 (or 10.42.0.42, > I don't remember - ifconfig will give you clues). I think I had to > invoke nmap to actually discover that. Look for an open Port 22. Thanks, John ? it sure did. I dunno what I was doing wrong last time, but it turned my wireless off when I shared the ethernet port. nmap did its magic when called with: sudo nmap -sn 10.42.0.0/24 and I found my (workbench) Raspberry Pi on 10.42.0.47. Thank you! cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 02:28:53 2013 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 22:28:53 -0400 Subject: (question) Electrical power bar In-Reply-To: <20130518221801.GA21091-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221801.GA21091@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <519838E5.3050100@alteeve.ca> On 05/18/2013 06:18 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi, > > Has anyone seen electrical power bar, where sockets are spaced out to > accommodate DC adapters and laid out horizontally? Sockets on most > power bars are too close and oriented vertically (like wall socket). > So, 1 DC adapter is taking up 3 sockets. > Something like; http://www.belkin.com/us/BV112230-08-Belkin/p/P-BV112230-08 or http://www.powersquid.com/powersquid-c-66.html -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 02:37:30 2013 From: jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jarl Stefansson) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 22:37:30 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: <51980DEA.4000907-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> <51980DEA.4000907@rogers.com> Message-ID: Actually the colours do matter a bit, the different pairs have slightly different numbers of twists for a given length and crosstalk will behave differently though of course the most important part is to ensure the paired wires are used as pairs. R. Jarl On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 7:25 PM, James Knott wrote: > William Park wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I had it with wireless speed, so I'm thinking about running wires around >> outside of my house. I have question... >> >> - For crossover cable, some say just cross two pairs (Green/Orange), >> but others say cross all four pairs (Green/Orange and Blue/Brown). >> Which is right? >> > > Only the green & orange. The others are not used at 10 or 100 Mb. At > Gigabit, all 4 pairs are used, but there's no crossover needed at that > speed. Also, newer switches etc. can autoconfig for crossover. BTW, why > do you need to crossover? Normal wiring is straight through and you'd only > use a crossover to connect 2 computers directly or two switches that don't > support autodetect. > > > >> - Should I use T568A or T568B? Some say T568B, but others (citing >> US Gov) say T568A. Well, crossover cable is essentially going >> from T568A to T568B, but only for Green/Orange. As long as the >> two ends are the same, should it matter? >> > > The actual colours don't matter, so long as you're consistent and don't > mix pairs. So you could make up your own colour code if you wished. > However, I generally prefer T568A, which keeps the blue and green apart, > making it easier to spot wiring errors. > > >> - Any recommendation for store that sells decent (in quality/price) >> ethernet cable and crimping tools and parts? Default is Home >> Depot. >> > > I generally go to Sayal. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -- Regards, Jarl Stefansson jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org +1-416-888-6908 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 02:45:26 2013 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 22:45:26 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <2d47256c65a260d38385475b765c1f37.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <2d47256c65a260d38385475b765c1f37.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1368931526.2536.1.camel@tecumseth3> On Sat, 2013-05-18 at 11:54 -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > You could check with Creatron on College Street. I think he's carrying > them. But I don't know the exact model. Maybe also the Home > Hardware/Supremetronics redux place, also on College. He certainly has B's, should have A's as well by now. The B with ethernet, 2 USB, 512MB is $43. Mel. > > Peter > > > Hi all. > > > > OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. Maybe more than one. > > Probably to play around with, but maybe ultimately as a home theatre > > client > > running Rasplex. > > > > Now ... about procurement... > > > > The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both > > appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping > > costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is > > there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? > > > > (I'm looking to get a Model B) > > > > Is the system fast enough to run KDE? > > > > And finally ... what are people doing for cases? > > > > Thanks! > > > > -- > > Evan Leibovitch > > Toronto Canada > > > > Em: evan at telly dot org > > Sk: evanleibovitch > > Tw: el56 > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 02:49:22 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 22:49:22 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> <51980DEA.4000907@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51983DB2.2020609@rogers.com> Jarl Stefansson wrote: > Actually the colours do matter a bit, the different pairs have > slightly different numbers of twists for a given length and crosstalk > will behave differently though of course the most important part is to > ensure the paired wires are used as pairs. All pairs have sufficient twist to meet the specs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 02:52:22 2013 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 22:52:22 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <5197917E.8090307-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1368931942.2536.7.camel@tecumseth3> On Sat, 2013-05-18 at 10:34 -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: [ ... ] > ? MicroUSB power cable ? There's some awful crap out there, and not > all of it's cheap. Go for short and thick. There are data+charge and > charge only types; you really only need the latter. I use the short > Nokia cables from dx.com at $3 a pop. Thanks. I've been having trouble with power cables. I didn't know about Nokia. > [...] > ? SDHC card ? Unless you have a specific tiny embedded application, > get a brand-name Class 10 32 GB SDHC. Whatever Canada Computers had as > their weekly special is what I use. Technically, you should check the > compatible cards list (http://elinux.org/RPi_SD_cards) first. You really should check. Many model numbers within popular brands will not work. Staff at Canada Computer camera shop have been very good about bringing up that web page and helping select. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 03:47:16 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 23:47:16 -0400 Subject: (question) Electrical power bar In-Reply-To: <519838E5.3050100-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221801.GA21091@node1.localdomain> <519838E5.3050100@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <51984B44.5090606@ss.org> On 05/18/2013 10:28 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 05/18/2013 06:18 PM, William Park wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Has anyone seen electrical power bar, where sockets are spaced out to >> accommodate DC adapters and laid out horizontally? Sockets on most >> power bars are too close and oriented vertically (like wall socket). >> So, 1 DC adapter is taking up 3 sockets. >> > > Something like; > > http://www.belkin.com/us/BV112230-08-Belkin/p/P-BV112230-08 > > or > > http://www.powersquid.com/powersquid-c-66.html > and, http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/2/Electrical/ElectricalPowerBars/PRD~0527269P/NOMA+12-Outlet+Power+Bar.jsp?locale=en It's really one of those things that is just common enough that you'll find something suitable when browsing a hardware store. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 04:51:41 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 00:51:41 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: <20130518221101.GA21053-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <51985A5D.4080206@sobac.com> About the only time you will need a crossover cable is if you're connecting two 10 Mb/s jacks. Almost everything that's 100 Mb/s has auto-sensing, making cross-over cables obsolete. You should use straight-through cables from the wall jack to your devices. Do yourself a favour and wire the premises with T568A. Do yourself another favour and put a connection panel at your router location (then use straight-through patch cables to connect the router to the panel). Some panels have the jacks labeled with both A and B colours, some large panels (24, 48 jack) have only labels for A. I believe the TIA standard recognizes only T568A, with T568B only for crossover. My "Oh no, not another learning experience" story: I expanded the network at a location that had only 10 jacks (and no disconnect panel, only a bunch of cables with RJ45 plugs coming out of the wall). The new 48 jack panel was labeled only with T568A colours, so we started wiring the new jacks as T568A as well. Of course, it turns out the old wiring was T568B (which seems to be common for premises wiring), so we re-punched the new jacks to T568B as well (fortunately, we caught the discrepancy before we'd installed too many). So now I had to wire the panel as T568B as well. Except for two jacks in the *old* wiring, which turned out to be T568A, probably in error. Nobody had ever noticed because those two jacks were in an inaccessible location, making it impractical to rewire them. So I hope the next wiring technician to come along and see all the mis-labeled punches (except for those other two) reads the documentation before disparaging the network installer before him... For bulk network installation tools and supplies I use Primespec in Waterloo (which is local for me). http://www.primespec.com/products/structured-wiring --Bob. Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting On 13-05-18 06:11 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi, > > I had it with wireless speed, so I'm thinking about running wires around > outside of my house. I have question... > > - For crossover cable, some say just cross two pairs (Green/Orange), > but others say cross all four pairs (Green/Orange and Blue/Brown). > Which is right? > > - Should I use T568A or T568B? Some say T568B, but others (citing > US Gov) say T568A. Well, crossover cable is essentially going > from T568A to T568B, but only for Green/Orange. As long as the > two ends are the same, should it matter? > > - Any recommendation for store that sells decent (in quality/price) > ethernet cable and crimping tools and parts? Default is Home > Depot. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 06:48:41 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 02:48:41 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <51970D95.6010009-D2Whf1L5i00@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> Message-ID: <20130519064841.GA3039@waltdnes.org> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 01:11:49AM -0400, Nicholas wrote > If you want to run your Pi as a media system, you should look into > buying Codec licenses from raspberrypi.org -- this will activate the > hardware video decoding acceleration for smooth video. Also, try > to use the audio-over-HDMI capability for a home theatre system -- > the audio-out jack doesn't have much in the way of an amplifier on > that circuit, so if you use it instead of HDMI-audio you may need > a pre-amp. I have an Intel i3 machine as my HTPC. It seems a waste most of the time. How good is the Pi's video acceleration for Flash? I'm talking stuff like NHL GameCenter Live. It has 4 available rates on the i3 machine; 400/800/1600/3000 kbits/sec. I'm about to get rid of an almost 6-year-old Core 2 machine, and haul it off to the York Region ewaste depot. It still "works", but can only handle the lowest NHL GameCenter Live speed. And even that requires "Gentoo ricer" optimization. And forget about 1080p Youtube videos. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 06:52:20 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 02:52:20 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: <51980DEA.4000907-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> <51980DEA.4000907@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130519065219.GA8391@node1.localdomain> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 07:25:30PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > I generally go to Sayal. Ok, I'll check their Burlington store. They also have Power Bar that I need. PS. I noticed Sayal has Raspberry Pi (ver. B). -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 06:56:04 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 02:56:04 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130519065604.GB8391@node1.localdomain> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 12:40:46AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Now ... about procurement... > > The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both > appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping > costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is > there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? > > (I'm looking to get a Model B) I noticed that Sayal has Raspberry Pi (Ver B). -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 07:15:49 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 03:15:49 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <1368931942.2536.7.camel@tecumseth3> References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> <1368931942.2536.7.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <20130519071549.GA9851@node1.localdomain> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 10:52:22PM -0400, Mel Wilson wrote: > On Sat, 2013-05-18 at 10:34 -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > ??? SDHC card ??? Unless you have a specific tiny embedded application, > > get a brand-name Class 10 32 GB SDHC. Whatever Canada Computers had as > > their weekly special is what I use. Technically, you should check the > > compatible cards list (http://elinux.org/RPi_SD_cards) first. > > You really should check. Many model numbers within popular brands will > not work. Staff at Canada Computer camera shop have been very good > about bringing up that web page and helping select. Is this Raspberry issue or SDHC? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 07:26:34 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 03:26:34 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130519072634.GB9851@node1.localdomain> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 03:19:50PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > There's also the new BeagleBone Black > which supports > Angstrom, Ubuntu & Android. > > It's available from Newark (where all of my Pi's and peripherals came > from) for $45 (+s/h) > > > And from Creatron for $54.55 > I didn't know Toronto store was selling Beaglebone Black! Too late... already ordered from US. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 07:59:57 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 03:59:57 -0400 Subject: GK802 (was: Time for Pi) In-Reply-To: References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130519075957.GC9851@node1.localdomain> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 08:20:44PM -0400, Tim Tisdall wrote: > Here's another website where they specialize in the devices they've gotten > Linux working on: https://www.miniand.com/ I've personally put Linaro > Ubuntu on the Hackberry and the GK802. I've got an Mk808B but haven't had > a chance to work on getting a Linux distro working on it. Thanks, Tim. Cubieboard is what I want. Maybe less polished than Beaglebone Black in terms of OS, but it has SATA port which you can plug eSATA disk array. Now, question about GK802: What is wireless and USB speed? - For wireless speed, can you try ssh device.ip cat /dev/zero > /dev/null And, from another console, iftop -i wlan0 - For USB speed, copy iso file to USB. scp some.iso device.ip:/mount/point/ -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 08:14:14 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 04:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <20130519064841.GA3039-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> <20130519064841.GA3039@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | I have an Intel i3 machine as my HTPC. It seems a waste most of the | time. How good is the Pi's video acceleration for Flash? I'm talking | stuff like NHL GameCenter Live. I don't know, but I'll speculate. Flash is proprietary. It seems that Adobe has to support the platform for it to be performant. I cannot imagine that Adobe supports the Pi. | I'm about to get rid of an almost | 6-year-old Core 2 machine, and haul it off to the York Region ewaste | depot. It still "works", but can only handle the lowest NHL GameCenter | Live speed. And even that requires "Gentoo ricer" optimization. And | forget about 1080p Youtube videos. Core 2 is likely still a reasonable machine. CPU speed improvement is modest. GPU improvement is more significant. Intel's GPU was horribly slow. Surely what you need is a video card. Again, I'm no Flash expert, but I think that an nVidia card and the proprietary driver ought to do the trick. Of course Adobe has reduced support for Flash on Linux: no new versions will be released (bug fixes are likely for a while). There is something about supporting Flash only in Chrome, but I don't remember the details. Don't trash the machine. Various not-for-profit hardware re-use locations should be happy to accept it. Even I might like it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 08:44:25 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 04:44:25 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: <51985A5D.4080206-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> <51985A5D.4080206@sobac.com> Message-ID: <20130519084425.GA12925@node1.localdomain> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 12:51:41AM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote: > Do yourself a favour and wire the premises with T568A. Do yourself > another favour and put a connection panel at your router location (then > use straight-through patch cables to connect the router to the panel). I was thinking about putting a 5-port Gbit switch in my garage, and run wires from that. One of the wire will be to the router. This will reduce number of holes that I have to drill. :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 12:24:22 2013 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 08:24:22 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <20130519071549.GA9851-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> <1368931942.2536.7.camel@tecumseth3> <20130519071549.GA9851@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <1368966262.2507.4.camel@tecumseth3> On Sun, 2013-05-19 at 03:15 -0400, William Park wrote: > On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 10:52:22PM -0400, Mel Wilson wrote: > > On Sat, 2013-05-18 at 10:34 -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > > ??? SDHC card ??? Unless you have a specific tiny embedded application, > > > get a brand-name Class 10 32 GB SDHC. Whatever Canada Computers had as > > > their weekly special is what I use. Technically, you should check the > > > compatible cards list (http://elinux.org/RPi_SD_cards) first. > > > > You really should check. Many model numbers within popular brands will > > not work. Staff at Canada Computer camera shop have been very good > > about bringing up that web page and helping select. > > Is this Raspberry issue or SDHC? Hard to say. I don't really use SD chips except in RPi. The culprits in front of me are Kingston SD10V/16GBCR . They loaded up no problem in the USB/SD adaptor on my desktop, but in the RPi they couldn't get through boot -- reported a host of I/O errors seemingly forever. I suspect it might be something Broadcom could fix, and perhaps will. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 13:47:49 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 09:47:49 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5198D805.2020307@gmail.com> On 13-05-18 08:20 PM, Tim Tisdall wrote: > > Those are intriguing. I've not tried them. Not as much of a culture > of open-source hacking. These little ARM sticks are all well and good, but how does the support compare to the huge and active Raspberry Pi community? One of the advantages that the Raspberry Pi has is that its hardware isn't changing too much. I've had mine for just shy of a year, and the improvements in hardware support and stability have been colossal. In that time, I've seen four or five new models of these ARM sticks ? all very open, sure, but the hardware gets upgraded so frequently that there won't be much incentive to develop stable firmwares when something faster and cheaper will be out in a month. I also like that the Raspberry Pi is backed by a non-profit educational foundation. The goal of the Raspberry Pi is to get kids programming again, no matter how many middle-aged linux geeks use it for building video players ? If you've ever seen kinds messing about with PyGame on a Raspberry Pi, it's the whole home computer thing all over again. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 13:52:06 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 09:52:06 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <20130519064841.GA3039-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> <20130519064841.GA3039@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <5198D906.6010309@gmail.com> On 13-05-19 02:48 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > > How good is the Pi's video acceleration for Flash? Like on all Linux distributions: nonexistent. You might be better off with a Roku 3 box. Not open, but plays everything. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 13:56:42 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 09:56:42 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <1368966262.2507.4.camel@tecumseth3> References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> <1368931942.2536.7.camel@tecumseth3> <20130519071549.GA9851@node1.localdomain> <1368966262.2507.4.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <5198DA1A.8090506@gmail.com> On 13-05-19 08:24 AM, Mel Wilson wrote: > > ? I don't really use SD chips except in RPi. The culprits > in front of me are Kingston SD10V/16GBCR . They loaded up no problem in > the USB/SD adaptor on my desktop, but in the RPi they couldn't get > through boot -- reported a host of I/O errors seemingly forever. I > suspect it might be something Broadcom could fix, and perhaps will. This will be hard to do if the card won't boot, but consider upgrading the firmware. The most recent Raspbian ships with a firmware from just before things got really stable. Much of the content in the Raspberry Pi wiki is more than a few months old, which makes it ancient in dog years. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 15:29:14 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 11:29:14 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> <20130519064841.GA3039@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130519152914.GA4191@waltdnes.org> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 04:14:14AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > Don't trash the machine. > > Various not-for-profit hardware re-use locations should be happy to > accept it. > > Even I might like it. http://www.dell.com/support/troubleshooting/ca/en/cabsdt1/servicetag/HLD6HD1?s=BIZ is Dell's listing. I'll give it away if it's usefull for anybody. In the past, I've heard occasional strange noises from it. Given it's age, it can fail any time, or it might keep going for a long while; no guarantees. If you can use it, or scavenge parts from it, you're welcome to pick it up for free. I'm near Dufferin+Steeles. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 15:45:08 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 11:45:08 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <20130519064841.GA3039-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> <20130519064841.GA3039@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <5198F384.9070109@ve3syb.ca> On 13-05-19 02:48 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm about to get rid of an almost > 6-year-old Core 2 machine, and haul it off to the York Region ewaste > depot. It still "works", but can only handle the lowest NHL GameCenter > Live speed. And even that requires "Gentoo ricer" optimization. And > forget about 1080p Youtube videos. Have you considered donating the machine to a place like Reboot before hauling it to the ewaste depot? It should still be a quite capable machine that someone could use. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 15:47:54 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 11:47:54 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <20130519152914.GA4191-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> <20130519064841.GA3039@waltdnes.org> <20130519152914.GA4191@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <5198F42A.4080009@ve3syb.ca> On 13-05-19 11:29 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > In the past, I've heard occasional strange noises from it. If someone does take the system off your hands the strange noises could be as simple as one of the fans in the system getting to the point it may need to be replaced. I have had machines where the fans in the power supply wore out and needed replacing but the rest of the machine was still fine. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 17:24:09 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 13:24:09 -0400 Subject: Free Geek Toronto [was: Time for Pi] In-Reply-To: <20130519064841.GA3039-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> <20130519064841.GA3039@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <51990AB9.3000909@sobac.com> Walter wrote: > I'm about to get rid of an almost 6-year-old Core 2 machine, and haul > it off to the York Region ewaste depot. It still "works", [...] If it still works (and even if it doesn't) consider donating it to Free Geek Toronto. They'll breathe new life into it, teach somebody about refurbishing computers, and provide low-cost computers for those who can't afford the latest shiny. And they'll ensure e-waste is sent to an appropriate recycler. http://freegeektoronto.org/donate/ I think there's some Free Geeks on the TLUG list; please let me know if I've erred. Free Geek Toronto is at 51B Vine Ave, not that far from Dufferin and Steeles: http://osrm.at/3i2 --Bob. On 13-05-19 02:48 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 01:11:49AM -0400, Nicholas wrote > >> If you want to run your Pi as a media system, you should look into >> buying Codec licenses from raspberrypi.org -- this will activate >> the hardware video decoding acceleration for smooth video. Also, >> try to use the audio-over-HDMI capability for a home theatre system >> -- the audio-out jack doesn't have much in the way of an amplifier >> on that circuit, so if you use it instead of HDMI-audio you may >> need a pre-amp. > > I have an Intel i3 machine as my HTPC. It seems a waste most of the > time. How good is the Pi's video acceleration for Flash? I'm > talking stuff like NHL GameCenter Live. It has 4 available rates on > the i3 machine; 400/800/1600/3000 kbits/sec. I'm about to get rid of > an almost 6-year-old Core 2 machine, and haul it off to the York > Region ewaste depot. It still "works", but can only handle the > lowest NHL GameCenter Live speed. And even that requires "Gentoo > ricer" optimization. And forget about 1080p Youtube videos. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 17:34:02 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 13:34:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <20130519152914.GA4191-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> <20130519064841.GA3039@waltdnes.org> <20130519152914.GA4191@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 04:14:14AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote | | > Don't trash the machine. | > | > Various not-for-profit hardware re-use locations should be happy to | > accept it. | > | > Even I might like it. | | http://www.dell.com/support/troubleshooting/ca/en/cabsdt1/servicetag/HLD6HD1?s=BIZ Thanks for that reference -- it provides detailed information. The E2140 processor is a "Pentium Dual Core", a close relative of the first Core 2 processors. In my mind, Core 2's introduction was when Intel processors started to be clearly better than AMD processors. 1.6GHz is a little slow by today's standards, but not horrible. 64-bit instruction set. No virualization hardware :-( The box appears to have one PCI Express x16 slot, so you can add a decent video card. (It also has a PCIe x1 slot and two PCI slots.) You probably have a Windows license for it too. So I'm sure that it could handle your HDTV needs. | If you can use it, or scavenge parts from it, you're | welcome to pick it up for free. I'm near Dufferin+Steeles. I was by there yesterday. Oh well. I'll take it if you don't find a more worthy recipient. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 20:05:20 2013 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 16:05:20 -0400 Subject: (question) Electrical power bar In-Reply-To: <51984B44.5090606-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221801.GA21091@node1.localdomain> <519838E5.3050100@alteeve.ca> <51984B44.5090606@ss.org> Message-ID: I picked up a couple from canada computers a year or 2 a go. On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 11:47 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 05/18/2013 10:28 PM, Digimer wrote: > >> On 05/18/2013 06:18 PM, William Park wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Has anyone seen electrical power bar, where sockets are spaced out to >>> accommodate DC adapters and laid out horizontally? Sockets on most >>> power bars are too close and oriented vertically (like wall socket). >>> So, 1 DC adapter is taking up 3 sockets. >>> >>> >> Something like; >> >> http://www.belkin.com/us/**BV112230-08-Belkin/p/P-**BV112230-08 >> >> or >> >> http://www.powersquid.com/**powersquid-c-66.html >> >> > and, > > http://www.canadiantire.ca/**AST/browse/6/Tools/2/**Electrical/** > ElectricalPowerBars/PRD~**0527269P/NOMA+12-Outlet+Power+** > Bar.jsp?locale=en > > It's really one of those things that is just common enough that you'll > find something suitable when browsing a hardware store. > > -- > Scott Sullivan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 20:34:38 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 16:34:38 -0400 Subject: GK802 (was: Time for Pi) In-Reply-To: <20130519075957.GC9851-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> <20130519075957.GC9851@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: I'll try those out when I have access to the device on Tuesday. -Tim On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 3:59 AM, William Park wrote: > On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 08:20:44PM -0400, Tim Tisdall wrote: > > Here's another website where they specialize in the devices they've > gotten > > Linux working on: https://www.miniand.com/ I've personally put Linaro > > Ubuntu on the Hackberry and the GK802. I've got an Mk808B but haven't > had > > a chance to work on getting a Linux distro working on it. > > Thanks, Tim. > > Cubieboard is what I want. Maybe less polished than Beaglebone Black in > terms of OS, but it has SATA port which you can plug eSATA disk array. > > Now, question about GK802: What is wireless and USB speed? > > - For wireless speed, can you try > ssh device.ip cat /dev/zero > /dev/null > And, from another console, > iftop -i wlan0 > > - For USB speed, copy iso file to USB. > scp some.iso device.ip:/mount/point/ > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 19 20:48:57 2013 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 16:48:57 -0400 Subject: (question) Electrical power bar In-Reply-To: <20130518221801.GA21091-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221801.GA21091@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 6:18 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi, > > Has anyone seen electrical power bar, where sockets are spaced out to > accommodate DC adapters and laid out horizontally? Sockets on most > power bars are too close and oriented vertically (like wall socket). > So, 1 DC adapter is taking up 3 sockets. > I don't know if this is what you are looking for but I picked one up a few weeks ago and am very happy with it. http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=C10BLK Cheers, Randy *There are too many gentlemen in England by five hundred* *--Robert Burnam 1549* * * > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon May 20 04:34:39 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 00:34:39 -0400 Subject: Free Geek Toronto [was: Time for Pi] In-Reply-To: <51990AB9.3000909-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> <20130519064841.GA3039@waltdnes.org> <51990AB9.3000909@sobac.com> Message-ID: <20130520043439.GA6933@waltdnes.org> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 01:24:09PM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote > Walter wrote: > > > I'm about to get rid of an almost 6-year-old Core 2 machine, and haul > > it off to the York Region ewaste depot. It still "works", [...] > > If it still works (and even if it doesn't) consider donating it to Free > Geek Toronto. They'll breathe new life into it, teach somebody about > refurbishing computers, and provide low-cost computers for those who > can't afford the latest shiny. And they'll ensure e-waste is sent to an > appropriate recycler. > > http://freegeektoronto.org/donate/ > > I think there's some Free Geeks on the TLUG list; please let me know if > I've erred. > > Free Geek Toronto is at 51B Vine Ave, not that far from Dufferin and > Steeles: http://osrm.at/3i2 OK, I'll drop it off there Tuesday afternoon. I didn't realize it was still considered usable. I suppose it depends on what you're doing. For email/chat and general websurfing, etc it's easily OK. I demand more, and it barely met my needs, even with heavily optimized Gentoo. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 20 19:16:04 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 15:16:04 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <519A7674.1000801@ve3syb.ca> On 13-05-18 12:40 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > OK, you've convinced me. I wanna get a Raspberry Pi. Maybe more than one. > Probably to play around with, but maybe ultimately as a home theatre client > running Rasplex. If you want to use a Pi as a media system there is Raspbmc (http://www.raspbmc.com/). I can't comment on it as I haven't used it. > The two sites that are the direct sellers -- Newark and Allied -- both > appear to make you create an account before they'll tell you shipping > costs. What are they? Is one suppier clearly better than the other? Is > there any clear advantage to multiple people pooling into one order? My model B Pi with the expanded memory was bought from the bookstore at the Don Mills and Finch campus of Seneca College. Their units came from Element 14. The bookstore price may be $5 to $10 above the standard $35 price. I can't say for certain as my Pi was a Christmas present. > And finally ... what are people doing for cases? I went with the Adafruit Pi box (ID 859). I like that I can take it apart to remove the top lid if I want to plug a board on to the GPIO header. Adafruit has a number of other cases available including the colourful Pibow. The one thing about the Pi is all the accessories you may want/need. Added up, they cost a lot more than the Pi. You can get a Ray-O-Vac power adapter (5V, 1A) that has a single USB connector for under $10 from Walmart, and a USB cable for about $3. You could try, but really shouldn't, try powering a Pi from a computer USB. It needs more amperage than the computers USB connector is meant to provied. I have noticed a WiFi adapter for the Pi may not work with all routers. I got the WiFi adapter from Adafruit. My router saw the connection from the Pi but the Pi never got its IP address. Since I switched from a D-Link DI-524 to a Netgear WNR-2000 I have had no trouble. The Pi gets an IP address and I have wireless network connection to the Internet from the Pi. Plugging the WiFi adapter in to the latest Pi model B (that has no protective fuses), when powered via the Ray-O-Vac device, the Pi will reset itself. One other expense for a Pi is an HDMI cable if you have any display devices that accept HDMI. I didn't so I've gone with an HDMI to VGA adapter, and a VGA cable. About another $40 or so, combined, expense. If you need a display for the Pi, that can be another big expense depending on the size of display. Also add a very small portable keyboard with mousepad. Another $20 or so. Amazing how much money you can wind up spending on an inexpensive computer board like the Pi. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 20 20:28:18 2013 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (David Mason) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 16:28:18 -0400 Subject: Debian hell :-) Message-ID: I finally went and did it... Picked up 4 new 1TB drives + SSD + new MOBO (needed 6 SATA ports) + new CPU (Athlon II X3) and (after many frustrating hours) I'm mostly happy... ($650 lighter, but happy). except, the whole reason to do this was to get ZFS, and http://zfsonlinux.org/debian.html has a simple couple steps to do, and everything would be fine... except, it works on amd64, not x86 and this system was previously an Atom, so I had it as x86. It took me a long time to figure this out. apt-get install debian-zfs politely says: Package debian-zfs is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source E: Package 'debian-zfs' has no installation candidate Eventually, I figured out that this meant that it is not available FOR THIS ARCH! In the meantime, I wondered if I'd set up the sources.list wrong, or had a corrupt apt database, etc. So now I need to move to amd64. I found a convient page: http://wiki.debian.org/Migrate32To64Bit but the first step is to download a 64-bit kernel, so I try: apt-get install linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 with similar results to before. So I try http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-amd64 to download, but the file it points to is 5Kb long. Sigh... I like debian, I really do, but there's sometimes too much magic going on for those of us who only actually poke at it every few months. Thanks for any guidance. I'd really like to get this running. (And I'd like to install parted, but I get the same message there as before). ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 20 21:23:21 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 17:23:21 -0400 Subject: Debian hell :-) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <519A9449.4040106@utoronto.ca> On 20/05/13 04:28 PM, David Mason wrote: > I finally went and did it... > > Picked up 4 new 1TB drives + SSD + new MOBO (needed 6 SATA ports) + > new CPU (Athlon II X3) and (after many frustrating hours) I'm mostly > happy... ($650 lighter, but happy). > > except, the whole reason to do this was to get ZFS, and > http://zfsonlinux.org/debian.html has a simple couple steps to do, and > everything would be fine... except, it works on amd64, not x86 and > this system was previously an Atom, so I had it as x86. Careful with the SSD & ZFS (and Linux). You definitely don't want swap on it, and minimizing the number of writes is something to work toward. If you get your SSD into your zpools without noticing, you can wear out the drive unless you use it intentionally. > It took me a long time to figure this out. > apt-get install debian-zfs > politely says: > Package debian-zfs is not available, but is referred to by another package. > This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or > is only available from another source > > E: Package 'debian-zfs' has no installation candidate > > Eventually, I figured out that this meant that it is not available FOR > THIS ARCH! In the meantime, I wondered if I'd set up the sources.list > wrong, or had a corrupt apt database, etc. > > So now I need to move to amd64. I found a convient page: > http://wiki.debian.org/Migrate32To64Bit but the first step is to > download a 64-bit kernel, so I try: > apt-get install linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 > with similar results to before. So I try > http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-amd64 to download, but > the file it points to is 5Kb long. Here's the package that you wanted: the link above is a meta-package that always ensures the latest version of the kernel is installed. http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 > Sigh... I like debian, I really do, but there's sometimes too much > magic going on for those of us who only actually poke at it every few > months. > > Thanks for any guidance. I'd really like to get this running. (And > I'd like to install parted, but I get the same message there as > before). You'd have this issue with any distro trying to upgrade from 32 to 64bit in place. Here's my suggestion in general steps (do a backup, and plan each step first!): dpkg --get-selections > /media/USB-STICK Now you have two options: since you have a backup, boot a Debian installer and do a clean install, or; boot up a livecd, rm everything except /etc /home /opt /var (any other locations that you use, leave in place. Boot the Debian installer. If you are going to restore from your backup, wipe your target disk. If you are installing in place, DO NOT FORMAT THE EXISTING DISK (but you have a backup anyways). I'm guessing you want to install to the SSD, in which case point the installer there. Don't partition it with swap unless you plan to limit your system's use thereof somehow. Put your swap on a spinning disk unless you know what you're doing. Important in the installer is that you choose the default for packages (don't select any). You can leave your TB disks alone for ZFS since you'll use zpool to handle those. Boot up the new install, update all the packages using apt-get/aptitude. Then the magic: dpkg --set-selections < /media/USB-STICK apt-get -u dselect-upgrade The last part will take the list of packages from your old 32bit version, and then run apt-get to install packages until the new system matches those packages specified. Search around a bit for strategies on using dpkg --get and --set-selections. I think you'll find a clean install to the SSD and then a quick restore from your backup of any data is easiest. After all you have a SATA2/3 motherboard, it won't take long, and you are guaranteed with a nice clean new 64bit system for ZFS ;) (Question: how much ram do you have for this system? If you use deduplication you're looking at 6-8GB per TB of data depending on your read/write ratio. Something to keep in mind. Stick with compression first, get a handle on that and see if it fits your needs, then if you're interested and have a use case, try dedup) More good reading here: http://pthree.org/2012/12/04/zfs-administration-part-i-vdevs/ And here http://www.cuddletech.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=983 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 00:35:23 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 20:35:23 -0400 Subject: Debian hell :-) In-Reply-To: <519A9449.4040106-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <519A9449.4040106@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: > > except, the whole reason to do this was to get ZFS, and > > http://zfsonlinux.org/debian.html has a simple couple steps to do, and > > everything would be fine... except, it works on amd64, not x86 and > > this system was previously an Atom, so I had it as x86. Is ZFS on Linux kernel based or is it something like ntfs3g? If its the later, wouldn't it be better to use freeBSD? I think freeBSD is more friendly to ZFS and hence unlikely to have it broken by updates. William > > Careful with the SSD & ZFS (and Linux). You definitely don't want swap > on it, and minimizing the number of writes is something to work toward. > If you get your SSD into your zpools without noticing, you can wear out > the drive unless you use it intentionally. > > > It took me a long time to figure this out. > > apt-get install debian-zfs > > politely says: > > Package debian-zfs is not available, but is referred to by another package. > > This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or > > is only available from another source > > > > E: Package 'debian-zfs' has no installation candidate > > > > Eventually, I figured out that this meant that it is not available FOR > > THIS ARCH! In the meantime, I wondered if I'd set up the sources.list > > wrong, or had a corrupt apt database, etc. > > > > So now I need to move to amd64. I found a convient page: > > http://wiki.debian.org/Migrate32To64Bit but the first step is to > > download a 64-bit kernel, so I try: > > apt-get install linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 > > with similar results to before. So I try > > http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-amd64 to download, but > > the file it points to is 5Kb long. > > Here's the package that you wanted: the link above is a meta-package > that always ensures the latest version of the kernel is installed. > > http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 > > > Sigh... I like debian, I really do, but there's sometimes too much > > magic going on for those of us who only actually poke at it every few > > months. > > > > Thanks for any guidance. I'd really like to get this running. (And > > I'd like to install parted, but I get the same message there as > > before). > > You'd have this issue with any distro trying to upgrade from 32 to 64bit > in place. Here's my suggestion in general steps (do a backup, and plan > each step first!): > > dpkg --get-selections > /media/USB-STICK > > Now you have two options: since you have a backup, boot a Debian > installer and do a clean install, or; boot up a livecd, rm everything > except /etc /home /opt /var (any other locations that you use, leave in > place. > > Boot the Debian installer. If you are going to restore from your backup, > wipe your target disk. If you are installing in place, DO NOT FORMAT THE > EXISTING DISK (but you have a backup anyways). > > I'm guessing you want to install to the SSD, in which case point the > installer there. Don't partition it with swap unless you plan to limit > your system's use thereof somehow. Put your swap on a spinning disk > unless you know what you're doing. > > Important in the installer is that you choose the default for packages > (don't select any). You can leave your TB disks alone for ZFS since > you'll use zpool to handle those. > > Boot up the new install, update all the packages using apt-get/aptitude. > Then the magic: > > dpkg --set-selections < /media/USB-STICK > apt-get -u dselect-upgrade > > The last part will take the list of packages from your old 32bit > version, and then run apt-get to install packages until the new system > matches those packages specified. > > Search around a bit for strategies on using dpkg --get and > --set-selections. > > I think you'll find a clean install to the SSD and then a quick restore > from your backup of any data is easiest. After all you have a SATA2/3 > motherboard, it won't take long, and you are guaranteed with a nice > clean new 64bit system for ZFS ;) > > (Question: how much ram do you have for this system? If you use > deduplication you're looking at 6-8GB per TB of data depending on your > read/write ratio. Something to keep in mind. Stick with compression > first, get a handle on that and see if it fits your needs, then if > you're interested and have a use case, try dedup) > > More good reading here: > http://pthree.org/2012/12/04/zfs-administration-part-i-vdevs/ > > And here http://www.cuddletech.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=983 > > Jamon > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 01:39:36 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 21:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Debian hell :-) In-Reply-To: References: <519A9449.4040106@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi | If its the later, wouldn't it be better to use freeBSD? I think freeBSD is | more friendly to ZFS and hence unlikely to have it broken by updates. I think that it would be more accurate to say "ZFS is more friendly to FreeBSD". My understanding was that Sun intentionally crafted the license to be Linux-phobic. My further understanding is that Oracle has stopped open-sourcing ZFS updates. The future is probably BTRFS (I hope). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 12:55:14 2013 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 08:55:14 -0400 Subject: Challenges compiling GRUB 0.97 / toolchain problems Message-ID: Hi folks, I have a requirement to re-compile GRUB 0.97 in order to track down a rather tricky boot problem, and getting the tool-chain set up has been a little challenging. I'm hoping TLUG can help out. (And before anyone says "Why don't you use GRUB2?", let me just posit that the existing platform uses GRUB, and that's the problem that I'm trying to solve.) My platform is Ubuntu 12.04, which I just upgraded this weekend from 11.04. I am building a 32-bit version of GRUB on a 32-bit platform, so there shouldn't be any cross-compilation issues. I downloaded GRUB 0.97, ran ./configure and was told GRUB requires a working absolute objcopy; upgrade your binutils Binutils was already at 2.22-6ubuntu1, which had arrived as part of my lengthy upgrade to 12.04. So I found the appropriate package at gnu.org, 2.23.2, and built that and installed it. I ran the ./configure for GRUB 0.97 again, and this time it said C compiler cannot create executables and referred me to the config.log. That turned out to be a problem with the command 'gcc -V', whose output displeases ./configure. So I went off to find the appropriate package at gnu.org, and the ./configure for that failed with the now familiar C compiler cannot create executables So this appears to leave me at an impasse. I'm guessing that this error message is code for some other problem, but I don't have much experience compiling C on the Linux platform. I got to this place because I'm getting a GRUB error 21 when re-booting some custom software; instrumenting GRUB seems to be the best approach to this, since the disk and file-system (that's what error 21 is complaining about) seem to be fine when mounted on another system. GRUB stage 1.5 appears to work fine, and just at the point that the menu is about to appear, I get the Error 21. Thanks everyone! Alex Beamish PS I posted this tool-chain question on Freenode's #gnu channel last night, and I got a vague reply -- I got the suggestion 'Have you tried compiling your programs 'the ubuntu way'?". If anyone can explain or decode that, I'd appreciate hearing from you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 14:23:42 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 10:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Challenges compiling GRUB 0.97 / toolchain problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Alex Beamish | PS I posted this tool-chain question on Freenode's #gnu channel last night, | and I got a vague reply -- I got the suggestion 'Have you tried compiling | your programs 'the ubuntu way'?". If anyone can explain or decode that, I'd | appreciate hearing from you. Each decent general-purpose Linux distro ought to be self hosting. This turns out to not always be the case. Ubuntu has a way of: - getting source for packages - building packages What they are trying to say is: "use the standard Ubuntu package source and build it the way Ubuntu builds" rather than going back to the generic grub 0.97 technique that you appear to be using. Advantages: - the process ought to have been debugged by being the well-worn path - dependencies ought to be automatically taken care of - you can ask for support from Ubuntu folks when it doesn't work - all Ubuntu adaption (if any) is included All this is (my) theory, not based on particular experience. A careless google suggests that these might be a workable guides: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 14:46:38 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 10:46:38 -0400 Subject: Debian hell :-) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130521144638.GA24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 04:28:18PM -0400, David Mason wrote: > I finally went and did it... > > Picked up 4 new 1TB drives + SSD + new MOBO (needed 6 SATA ports) + > new CPU (Athlon II X3) and (after many frustrating hours) I'm mostly > happy... ($650 lighter, but happy). > > except, the whole reason to do this was to get ZFS, and > http://zfsonlinux.org/debian.html has a simple couple steps to do, and > everything would be fine... except, it works on amd64, not x86 and > this system was previously an Atom, so I had it as x86. > > It took me a long time to figure this out. > apt-get install debian-zfs > politely says: > Package debian-zfs is not available, but is referred to by another package. > This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or > is only available from another source > > E: Package 'debian-zfs' has no installation candidate > > Eventually, I figured out that this meant that it is not available FOR > THIS ARCH! In the meantime, I wondered if I'd set up the sources.list > wrong, or had a corrupt apt database, etc. > > So now I need to move to amd64. I found a convient page: > http://wiki.debian.org/Migrate32To64Bit but the first step is to > download a 64-bit kernel, so I try: > apt-get install linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 If that doesn't work, then your /etc/apt/sources.list is really wrong. What do you have? Any system setup to use wheezy will have that package if it is i386 or amd64. > with similar results to before. So I try > http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-amd64 to download, but > the file it points to is 5Kb long. > > Sigh... I like debian, I really do, but there's sometimes too much > magic going on for those of us who only actually poke at it every few > months. > > Thanks for any guidance. I'd really like to get this running. (And > I'd like to install parted, but I get the same message there as > before). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 14:55:48 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 10:55:48 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130521145548.GB24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 03:19:50PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > There's also the new BeagleBone Black > which supports > Angstrom, Ubuntu & Android. Certainly a vastly better machine than the pi, although the HDMI video output resolution is not capable of full HD unfortunately as far as I have been able to determine. > It's available from Newark (where all of my Pi's and peripherals came > from) for $45 (+s/h) > > > And from Creatron for $54.55 > -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 10:57:37 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 10:57:37 +0000 Subject: Challenges compiling GRUB 0.97 / toolchain problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <519B5321.9020107@utoronto.ca> On 21/05/13 02:23 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Alex Beamish > > | PS I posted this tool-chain question on Freenode's #gnu channel last night, > | and I got a vague reply -- I got the suggestion 'Have you tried compiling > | your programs 'the ubuntu way'?". If anyone can explain or decode that, I'd > | appreciate hearing from you. > > Each decent general-purpose Linux distro ought to be self hosting. > This turns out to not always be the case. > > Ubuntu has a way of: > - getting source for packages > - building packages Unfortunately building from upstream is challenging sometimes because of the distro-specific patches. The best way with Ubuntu or debian is to use dget: dget -u http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/grub/grub_0.97-29ubuntu66.dsc cd grub-0.97 dpkg-buildpackage This will patch acinclude.m4 to fix the objcopy absolute message. It is a problem in the build macro, not grub or binutils. Before running dpkg-buildpackage you can look at any of the debian/ubuntu specific patches in the grub-0.97/debian/patches directory. Note that there is a patch called objcopy-absolute.diff that fixes the objcopy message. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 15:05:08 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 11:05:08 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: <20130518221101.GA21053-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130521150508.GC24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 06:11:01PM -0400, William Park wrote: > I had it with wireless speed, so I'm thinking about running wires around > outside of my house. I have question... > > - For crossover cable, some say just cross two pairs (Green/Orange), > but others say cross all four pairs (Green/Orange and Blue/Brown). > Which is right? Don't bother with crossover. Gigabit doesn't need it, and most switches are auto crossover anyhow even for 100Mbit. Certainly inside the wall pin1 should go to pin1. Don't hide crossovers in the wall. Just run all the wires stright from one jack to another in the wall with the same pins matching at each end and it should all work. > - Should I use T568A or T568B? Some say T568B, but others (citing > US Gov) say T568A. Well, crossover cable is essentially going > from T568A to T568B, but only for Green/Orange. As long as the > two ends are the same, should it matter? > > - Any recommendation for store that sells decent (in quality/price) > ethernet cable and crimping tools and parts? Default is Home > Depot. That's where I got stuff in the past. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 15:09:12 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 11:09:12 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> <51980DEA.4000907@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130521150912.GD24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 10:37:30PM -0400, Jarl Stefansson wrote: > Actually the colours do matter a bit, the different pairs have slightly > different numbers of twists for a given length and crosstalk will behave > differently though of course the most important part is to ensure the > paired wires are used as pairs. Yes. Don't mess up the pairs. Pin 1 and 2 is one pair, ping 3 and 6 is another pair, pin 4 and 5 a third pair and pin 7 and 8 the last pair. Which pair is which doesn't matter as long as you are consistent. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 15:11:39 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 11:11:39 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: <20130519084425.GA12925-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> <51985A5D.4080206@sobac.com> <20130519084425.GA12925@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130521151139.GE24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 04:44:25AM -0400, William Park wrote: > I was thinking about putting a 5-port Gbit switch in my garage, and run > wires from that. One of the wire will be to the router. This will > reduce number of holes that I have to drill. :-) I prefer my switch near one of my UPSs so my network stays working if the power fails. I suppose a small UPS could go in the garage. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 15:42:45 2013 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 11:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <20130521145548.GB24879-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130521145548.GB24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 May 2013, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 03:19:50PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > There's also the new BeagleBone Black > > which supports > > Angstrom, Ubuntu & Android. > > Certainly a vastly better machine than the pi, although the HDMI > video output resolution is not capable of full HD unfortunately as > far as I have been able to determine. it is not, which is a hard limitation of the pix clock rate of 150MHz for the HDMI framer. no getting around that. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 15:53:04 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 11:53:04 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <20130521145548.GB24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130521155304.GF24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:42:45AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Tue, 21 May 2013, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 03:19:50PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > There's also the new BeagleBone Black > > > which supports > > > Angstrom, Ubuntu & Android. > > > > Certainly a vastly better machine than the pi, although the HDMI > > video output resolution is not capable of full HD unfortunately as > > far as I have been able to determine. > > it is not, which is a hard limitation of the pix clock rate of > 150MHz for the HDMI framer. no getting around that. Well if you could lower the refresh rate maybe... :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 16:10:45 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 12:10:45 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi Message-ID: On 21 May 2013 11:53, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:42:45AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: >> On Tue, 21 May 2013, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> > On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 03:19:50PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> > > There's also the new BeagleBone Black >> > > which supports >> > > Angstrom, Ubuntu & Android. >> > >> > Certainly a vastly better machine than the pi, although the HDMI >> > video output resolution is not capable of full HD unfortunately as >> > far as I have been able to determine. >> >> it is not, which is a hard limitation of the pix clock rate of >> 150MHz for the HDMI framer. no getting around that. > > Well if you could lower the refresh rate maybe... :) The default resolution on mine is 1280x1024. Please explain why they'd use metacity/GNOME on a system with 512MB of memory? Never mind ... I've also found the HDMI out to be somewhat flaky: it randomly blanked out, sometimes for long periods of time, when going through my receiver to my LCD TV. The behaviour has been better, but still not perfect, connected directly to a monitor. The BBB runs Angstrom Linux by default. As mine wasn't running an ssh server (it's supposed to be shipped with that in place) I was attempting to get one started. It occurred to me that it might be a known problem, so I applied the Debian solution: # opkg update ... # opkg upgrade ... This ran for 45 minutes, apparently updating every package on the system ... and then locked solid. The chip was at that point burning hot. So tonight I'll go home to determine if I've bricked the thing or merely munged the onboard installation. Either way, my original agreement with Lennart that this was "better hardware" has been thrown into doubt. Even if I was abusing Angstrom's methodology because I treated it like Debian and didn't read the documentation enough, overheating and lock-up doesn't make me more enthusiastic about the hardware. P.S. Android support is reportedly unaccelerated and essentially unusable. Broadcom apparently has a working solution but hasn't released it into the wild. (I can't find the article that said that at the moment so it should be taken with a grain of salt ... but the Android-on-Beagle pages all talk about their "goals" rather than capabilities.) -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 16:26:34 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 12:26:34 -0400 Subject: GK802 (was: Time for Pi) In-Reply-To: <20130519075957.GC9851-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <5197917E.8090307@gmail.com> <20130519075957.GC9851@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: Here's my test for speed of writing to a USB thumbdrive: linaro at linaro-ubuntu-desktop:/media$ sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=test bs=64k count=4k conv=fdatasync 4096+0 records in 4096+0 records out 268435456 bytes (268 MB) copied, 59.738 s, 4.5 MB/s I then tried scp'ing a 31MB file over wifi to test that: tim at machine:~$ scp ap.tar.xz linaro-Q0ErXNX1RuaRpikGYroapg at public.gmane.org:~/ ap.tar.xz 100% 31MB 2.1MB/s 00:15 Not sure how this compares to other machines... On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 3:59 AM, William Park wrote: > On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 08:20:44PM -0400, Tim Tisdall wrote: > > Here's another website where they specialize in the devices they've > gotten > > Linux working on: https://www.miniand.com/ I've personally put Linaro > > Ubuntu on the Hackberry and the GK802. I've got an Mk808B but haven't > had > > a chance to work on getting a Linux distro working on it. > > Thanks, Tim. > > Cubieboard is what I want. Maybe less polished than Beaglebone Black in > terms of OS, but it has SATA port which you can plug eSATA disk array. > > Now, question about GK802: What is wireless and USB speed? > > - For wireless speed, can you try > ssh device.ip cat /dev/zero > /dev/null > And, from another console, > iftop -i wlan0 > > - For USB speed, copy iso file to USB. > scp some.iso device.ip:/mount/point/ > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 16:30:13 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 12:30:13 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130521163013.GG24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 12:10:45PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > The default resolution on mine is 1280x1024. Please explain why > they'd use metacity/GNOME on a system with 512MB of memory? Never > mind ... > > I've also found the HDMI out to be somewhat flaky: it randomly blanked > out, sometimes for long periods of time, when going through my > receiver to my LCD TV. The behaviour has been better, but still not > perfect, connected directly to a monitor. > > The BBB runs Angstrom Linux by default. As mine wasn't running an ssh > server (it's supposed to be shipped with that in place) I was > attempting to get one started. It occurred to me that it might be a > known problem, so I applied the Debian solution: > > # opkg update > ... > # opkg upgrade > ... > > This ran for 45 minutes, apparently updating every package on the > system ... and then locked solid. The chip was at that point burning > hot. So tonight I'll go home to determine if I've bricked the thing > or merely munged the onboard installation. Either way, my original > agreement with Lennart that this was "better hardware" has been thrown > into doubt. Even if I was abusing Angstrom's methodology because I > treated it like Debian and didn't read the documentation enough, > overheating and lock-up doesn't make me more enthusiastic about the > hardware. Better by spec. I wouldn't run a 1GHz system without a heatsink. And ARMv7 is better than an ARMv6. Real ethernet is better than usb ethernet. > P.S. Android support is reportedly unaccelerated and essentially > unusable. Broadcom apparently has a working solution but hasn't > released it into the wild. (I can't find the article that said that > at the moment so it should be taken with a grain of salt ... but the > Android-on-Beagle pages all talk about their "goals" rather than > capabilities.) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 17:14:12 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 13:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <20130521145548.GB24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Robert P. J. Day As far as I can tell, Robert writes most of the documentation for the BBB. Too bad his name isn't as easy to google for as mine. Here's a random page from his website -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 17:25:21 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 13:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Giles Orr | P.S. Android support is reportedly unaccelerated and essentially | unusable. Broadcom apparently has a working solution but hasn't | released it into the wild. (I can't find the article that said that | at the moment so it should be taken with a grain of salt ... but the | Android-on-Beagle pages all talk about their "goals" rather than | capabilities.) What's this got to do with Broadcom? The BBB has a TI SoC and that includes a PowerVR GPU, (SGX530). Like all GPUs for ARM, this one is evil, but not due to Broadcom. I don't expect improvements since (1) TI is getting out of this business (2) the PowerVR "Intellectual Property" is owned by Imagination Technologies. Even under great pressure, they've not opened the specs. (3) Apple appears to have licensed the PowerVR stuff in a way that future upgrades will probably be reserved to Apple (no friend of openness)n There is a reverse engineering effort. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 17:41:18 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 13:41:18 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 21 May 2013 13:25, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Giles Orr > > | P.S. Android support is reportedly unaccelerated and essentially > | unusable. Broadcom apparently has a working solution but hasn't > | released it into the wild. (I can't find the article that said that > | at the moment so it should be taken with a grain of salt ... but the > | Android-on-Beagle pages all talk about their "goals" rather than > | capabilities.) > > What's this got to do with Broadcom? > > The BBB has a TI SoC and that includes a PowerVR GPU, (SGX530). Like > all GPUs for ARM, this one is evil, but not due to Broadcom. You're correct: it has nothing at all to do with Broadcom - and it informs me of why I couldn't find the page I was thinking of. I was conflating the Pi and the BBB in my mind. It's the Pi that has a sluggish Android implementation with Broadcom problems. Sorry about that!! Here's what I was talking about (and ... we're back to discussing the Pi ...): http://androidpi.wikia.com/wiki/Android_Pi_Wiki -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 17:45:23 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:45:23 -0300 Subject: Free Geek Toronto [was: Time for Pi] In-Reply-To: <20130520043439.GA6933-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> <20130519064841.GA3039@waltdnes.org> <51990AB9.3000909@sobac.com> <20130520043439.GA6933@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: I still have an Athlon XP 1800+, and it's perfectly running until now. I still use it to navigate, email, Facebook, watch videos on it (it's screen is bigger than my notebook), and when its power source dies from time to time, I replace the power source and keep it running. I don't have an incentive (as yet) to throw it away and buy another, as it still meets my demands and it's not my only computer (I have 3 more). And I still have an ancient P-166, 64MB RAM somewhere. I don't know if it boots anymore. My wife didn't found it yet, so it explains why it's still around... Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2013/5/20 Walter Dnes > On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 01:24:09PM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote > > Walter wrote: > > > > > I'm about to get rid of an almost 6-year-old Core 2 machine, and haul > > > it off to the York Region ewaste depot. It still "works", [...] > > > > If it still works (and even if it doesn't) consider donating it to Free > > Geek Toronto. They'll breathe new life into it, teach somebody about > > refurbishing computers, and provide low-cost computers for those who > > can't afford the latest shiny. And they'll ensure e-waste is sent to an > > appropriate recycler. > > > > http://freegeektoronto.org/donate/ > > > > I think there's some Free Geeks on the TLUG list; please let me know if > > I've erred. > > > > Free Geek Toronto is at 51B Vine Ave, not that far from Dufferin and > > Steeles: http://osrm.at/3i2 > > OK, I'll drop it off there Tuesday afternoon. I didn't realize it was > still considered usable. I suppose it depends on what you're doing. > For email/chat and general websurfing, etc it's easily OK. I demand > more, and it barely met my needs, even with heavily optimized Gentoo. > > -- > Walter Dnes > I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 17:59:55 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 13:59:55 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130521175955.GH24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 01:25:21PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > What's this got to do with Broadcom? > > The BBB has a TI SoC and that includes a PowerVR GPU, (SGX530). Like > all GPUs for ARM, this one is evil, but not due to Broadcom. At least a lot of the arm GPUs are getting reverse engineered. The PowerVR currently does appear to be the least likely to end up with a working driver, but that could change I suppose. > I don't expect improvements since > > (1) TI is getting out of this business They certainly are not getting out of the arm soc business. Which business do you think they are getting out of? > (2) the PowerVR "Intellectual Property" is owned by Imagination > Technologies. Even under great pressure, they've not opened > the specs. That is certainly true and highly annoying. > (3) Apple appears to have licensed the PowerVR stuff in a way that > future upgrades will probably be reserved to Apple (no friend > of openness) No idea. And Apple probably isn't telling. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 18:41:14 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <20130521175955.GH24879-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130521175955.GH24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | > (1) TI is getting out of this business | | They certainly are not getting out of the arm soc business. Which | business do you think they are getting out of? Just what "this business" is isn't clear to me, a casual googler. There are many more hits about these announcements, but what they mean technically isn't obvious. This seems to have been announced quite recently: Nice little board. Too bad about the price (US$329). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 18:54:17 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:54:17 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <519BC2D9.9080001@ss.org> On 05/21/2013 12:10 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > The default resolution on mine is 1280x1024. Please explain why > they'd use metacity/GNOME on a system with 512MB of memory? Never > mind ... Because GNOME now believes we live in a world where your Window manager should have OpenGL as a mandatory dependency. I used to joke that 'Hackers' was such in inaccurate movie because it seemed every terminal had OpenGL as dependency... now the march of time is having that joke back on me... -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 20:05:24 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 16:05:24 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <20130521175955.GH24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130521200524.GI24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 02:41:14PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Just what "this business" is isn't clear to me, a casual googler. > > > > There are many more hits about these announcements, but what they mean > technically isn't obvious. > > This seems to have been announced quite recently: > > > Nice little board. Too bad about the price (US$329). OK, so it says they are getting out of the smartphone/tablet market and focusing on the embedded market. That makes sense. With the nvidia tegra, the qualcom snapdragon, the various samsung chips, and the freescale i.MX line, there is already a lot of competition in that market, and if you don't also do cell radios as part of your design, you probably have no chance. TI seems to be doing some interesting new chips with network IO for embedded use, which of course has no interest to cell phone makers, and might be more interesting as arm moves into the server market and such. I would think the CPU on the BBB actually fits pretty well with the embedded market and not nearly as well in the cell phone market, so it should be safe for now. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 20:38:59 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 16:38:59 -0400 Subject: Debian hell :-) In-Reply-To: <519A9449.4040106-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <519A9449.4040106@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <519BDB63.3070708@sobac.com> Surely that should be >dpkg --get-selections > /media/USB-STICK/somefilename.txt and >dpkg --set-selections < /media/USB-STICK/somefilename.txt ...where USB-STICK is the auto-mounted folder for said USB stick. I would hate for someone to reformat their drive, only to find that the file named USB-STICK is gone forever... --Bob the pedant. On 13-05-20 05:23 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > dpkg --get-selections > /media/USB-STICK [...] > dpkg --set-selections < /media/USB-STICK > apt-get -u dselect-upgrade -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 16:43:10 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 16:43:10 +0000 Subject: Debian hell :-) In-Reply-To: <519BDB63.3070708-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <519A9449.4040106@utoronto.ca> <519BDB63.3070708@sobac.com> Message-ID: <519BA41E.5080308@utoronto.ca> On 21/05/13 08:38 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > I would hate for someone to reformat their drive, only to find that the > file named USB-STICK is gone forever... > > --Bob the pedant. Right back at you :p >From my original reploy: "Here's my suggestion in general steps (do a backup, and plan each step first!)" Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 21:28:47 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 17:28:47 -0400 Subject: Free Geek Toronto [was: Time for Pi] In-Reply-To: References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> <20130519064841.GA3039@waltdnes.org> <51990AB9.3000909@sobac.com> <20130520043439.GA6933@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130521212847.GB11702@waltdnes.org> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 02:45:23PM -0300, Mauro Souza wrote > I still have an Athlon XP 1800+, and it's perfectly running until now. I > still use it to navigate, email, Facebook, watch videos on it (it's screen > is bigger than my notebook) I dropped it off at FreeGeek this afternoon. It used to be good enough for me. But the web has outgrown it. E.g. NHL GameCenter Live and 1080P Youtube video is too much for it. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 23:21:59 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 19:21:59 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130521232159.GA23001@node1.localdomain> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 12:10:45PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > The BBB runs Angstrom Linux by default. As mine wasn't running an ssh > server (it's supposed to be shipped with that in place) I was > attempting to get one started. How I am supposed to do rsync/ssh backup to USB disk, then? Just great... $60+ wasted. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 23:38:16 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 19:38:16 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <20130521232159.GA23001-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130521232159.GA23001@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <519C0568.2070309@ss.org> On 05/21/2013 07:21 PM, William Park wrote: > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 12:10:45PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >> The BBB runs Angstrom Linux by default. As mine wasn't running an ssh >> server (it's supposed to be shipped with that in place) I was >> attempting to get one started. > > How I am supposed to do rsync/ssh backup to USB disk, then? Just > great... $60+ wasted. > Just because it ships with one linux, doesn't mean it won't run another. A bit of googling found this pointer for debian. https://gist.github.com/ajstarks/093581ac1fbc355f8402 Arch already has their support ready to go. http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/beaglebone-black The hardware is still rather new, and many on this list are getting it about the same time as some distro maintainers. Give it a little time and more distro's will be avaliable. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 21 23:48:43 2013 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 19:48:43 -0400 Subject: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <20130521145548.GB24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:14 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Robert P. J. Day > > As far as I can tell, Robert writes most of the documentation for the > BBB. Too bad his name isn't as easy to google for as mine. > > Here's a random page from his website > > Ah, now I have to go through the entire site. Thanks. :-) Rob also gave well-received presentations at Ontario GNU Linux Fest. "Writing your first kernel module", was one, iirc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Wed May 22 04:33:31 2013 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 00:33:31 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <20130521232159.GA23001-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130521232159.GA23001@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 7:21 PM, William Park wrote: > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 12:10:45PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >> The BBB runs Angstrom Linux by default. As mine wasn't running an ssh >> server (it's supposed to be shipped with that in place) I was >> attempting to get one started. > > How I am supposed to do rsync/ssh backup to USB disk, then? Just > great... $60+ wasted. On *my* BBB running the default Angstrom ssh was already up-and-running and rsync is installed. SSH is provided by dropbear but I see an openssh pkg is available in the package manager. -- (o< .: per curiositas ad astra .: http://www.circuidipity.com (/)_ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 22 13:15:32 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 09:15:32 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <20130521232159.GA23001@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On 22 May 2013 00:33, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 7:21 PM, William Park wrote: >> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 12:10:45PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >>> The BBB runs Angstrom Linux by default. As mine wasn't running an ssh >>> server (it's supposed to be shipped with that in place) I was >>> attempting to get one started. >> >> How I am supposed to do rsync/ssh backup to USB disk, then? Just >> great... $60+ wasted. > > On *my* BBB running the default Angstrom ssh was already > up-and-running and rsync is installed. SSH is provided by dropbear but > I see an openssh pkg is available in the package manager. Apologies to William: the bad ssh server is apparently unique to me - they do usually ship with a functional ssh server. Besides, as mentioned, it's apparently quite easy to run another Linux distro on it as mentioned by others. An update on mine: it's still as functional as it was previously (ie. I still have no ssh server, but it connects and works as it did before) so, contrary to my guess, I didn't brick it or even cause it problems. That chip does run quite warm though, even when it's not under heavy load. I need to follow Len's advice and find a way to get a heat sink on it. There are no supports, anyone have any idea where I could get one or how to mount it? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 22 13:23:48 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 10:23:48 -0300 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <20130521232159.GA23001@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On DX.com I bought a heat sink for RasPi (not shipped yet) for $2.10 ( http://dx.com/p/207119). It's copper based, has a sticker under it, so it will be glued to the chip. I think you would be able to use it on BBB. I will buy a couple more to stick to my old BeagleBone too... For now I have two aluminium heat sinks over the Pi (cpu and chipset), not glued, just over it, and it falls off every time someone knocks over it (pretty rarely, though). Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2013/5/22 Giles Orr > On 22 May 2013 00:33, Daniel Wayne Armstrong > wrote: > > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 7:21 PM, William Park > wrote: > >> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 12:10:45PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > >>> The BBB runs Angstrom Linux by default. As mine wasn't running an ssh > >>> server (it's supposed to be shipped with that in place) I was > >>> attempting to get one started. > >> > >> How I am supposed to do rsync/ssh backup to USB disk, then? Just > >> great... $60+ wasted. > > > > On *my* BBB running the default Angstrom ssh was already > > up-and-running and rsync is installed. SSH is provided by dropbear but > > I see an openssh pkg is available in the package manager. > > Apologies to William: the bad ssh server is apparently unique to me - > they do usually ship with a functional ssh server. Besides, as > mentioned, it's apparently quite easy to run another Linux distro on > it as mentioned by others. > > An update on mine: it's still as functional as it was previously (ie. > I still have no ssh server, but it connects and works as it did > before) so, contrary to my guess, I didn't brick it or even cause it > problems. > > That chip does run quite warm though, even when it's not under heavy > load. I need to follow Len's advice and find a way to get a heat sink > on it. There are no supports, anyone have any idea where I could get > one or how to mount it? > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 22 14:32:54 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 10:32:54 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <20130521232159.GA23001@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130522143254.GJ24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 09:15:32AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > Apologies to William: the bad ssh server is apparently unique to me - > they do usually ship with a functional ssh server. Besides, as > mentioned, it's apparently quite easy to run another Linux distro on > it as mentioned by others. > > An update on mine: it's still as functional as it was previously (ie. > I still have no ssh server, but it connects and works as it did > before) so, contrary to my guess, I didn't brick it or even cause it > problems. > > That chip does run quite warm though, even when it's not under heavy > load. I need to follow Len's advice and find a way to get a heat sink > on it. There are no supports, anyone have any idea where I could get > one or how to mount it? Hmm, lots of places certainly claim it does not need a heatsink. I know it is possible to buy small heatsinks which could then be glued on (hopefully with glue that can be removed again and which tolerates heat). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed May 22 16:19:23 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 12:19:23 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <20130522143254.GJ24879-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130521232159.GA23001@node1.localdomain> <20130522143254.GJ24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <519CF00B.6060904@ss.org> On 05/22/2013 10:32 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 09:15:32AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >> >> That chip does run quite warm though, even when it's not under heavy >> load. I need to follow Len's advice and find a way to get a heat sink >> on it. There are no supports, anyone have any idea where I could get >> one or how to mount it? > > Hmm, lots of places certainly claim it does not need a heatsink. > > I know it is possible to buy small heatsinks which could then be glued on > (hopefully with glue that can be removed again and which tolerates heat). > Many of the kits I've seen use two-sided adhesive thermal pads. Many heatsinks come with them pre-applied. There have been vendors taking advantage of supplying kits for the Raspberry Pi and the Xbox 360 (know for needing replacements after Red Ring of Death repairs). Just some random links I found, you should do your own hunting. http://dx.com/s/heat+sink http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=heat+sink&catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20130522081342 http://www.exp-tech.de/Mainboards/RPi/Kuehlkoerper-Kit-fuer-Raspberry-Pi.html?XTCsid=22461e7aa13b388bab5d1b6a8f2db819 http://shop.pi3g.com/cases-cooling/cooling-kit-kuehlkoerper-fuer-das-raspberry-pi.html There are also DIY approaches involving cutting up a larger heat sink. http://matthewcmcmillan.blogspot.ca/2012/07/raspberry-pi-heat-sinks.html -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed May 22 16:27:26 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 12:27:26 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <519CF00B.6060904-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20130521232159.GA23001@node1.localdomain> <20130522143254.GJ24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <519CF00B.6060904@ss.org> Message-ID: <519CF1EE.2030106@ss.org> On 05/22/2013 12:19 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 05/22/2013 10:32 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 09:15:32AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >>> >>> That chip does run quite warm though, even when it's not under heavy >>> load. I need to follow Len's advice and find a way to get a heat sink >>> on it. There are no supports, anyone have any idea where I could get >>> one or how to mount it? >> >> Hmm, lots of places certainly claim it does not need a heatsink. >> >> I know it is possible to buy small heatsinks which could then be glued on >> (hopefully with glue that can be removed again and which tolerates heat). >> > > Many of the kits I've seen use two-sided adhesive thermal pads. Many > heatsinks come with them pre-applied. > > There have been vendors taking advantage of supplying kits for the > Raspberry Pi and the Xbox 360 (know for needing replacements after Red > Ring of Death repairs). > > Just some random links I found, you should do your own hunting. Or go to the source. Digikey heat sink search filtered with BGA package type and adhesive tape included. Just filter further with the size of the BBB's chip size. http://www.digikey.ca/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?pv357=260&pv623=17&FV=fff40012%2Cfff80068&k=heat+sink&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 25 09:14:43 2013 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 09:14:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! Message-ID: I do not live in .ca but I keep an eye on the media almost daily. My eye(s) just about popped out upon reading this: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/24/canada-post-asks-canadians-to-accept-junk-mail-by-sending-them-junk-mail/ This has got to be a joke. Who pays for this?! Also, any plans to make email spam reading mandatory? Cynically, paper spam should be mandatorily printed on environmentally friendly paper with non toxic inks. That way, one would get stove kindling delivered for free, sort of. -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Sat May 25 10:02:09 2013 From: torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 11:02:09 +0100 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: (Peter's message of "Sat, 25 May 2013 09:14:43 +0000 (UTC)") References: Message-ID: <84obbzbcny.fsf@free.fr> Peter a ?crit profondement: | I do not live in .ca but I keep an eye on the media almost daily. My eye(s) | just about popped out upon reading this: > | http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/24/canada-post-asks-canadians-to-accept-junk-mail-by-sending-them-junk-mail/ > | This has got to be a joke. Who pays for this?! Also, any plans to make email | spam reading mandatory? > | Cynically, paper spam should be mandatorily printed on environmentally | friendly paper with non toxic inks. That way, one would get stove kindling | delivered for free, sort of. Well now, Canada is certainly making news lately. What with the Mayor of Toronto being pictured in the press Stoned on Crack, one has to wonder what will come next, Eh ? -- Slackrat Fly your flag http://inconnu.freeshell.org/rbr/portugal-flag.gif -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 25 16:53:23 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 12:53:23 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: <84obbzbcny.fsf-GANU6spQydw@public.gmane.org> References: <84obbzbcny.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: <51A0EC83.5090805@sobac.com> The article doesn't mention that that postage-paid response card had two options: the first said "Yes, I'd like to receive junk mail", and the second "Oui, je veux recevoir les ordures en courrier" (paraphrased). The enclosed letter also said that if the response card wasn't received, junk mail delivery would resume in a few weeks... Canada Post must really be hurting. --Bob. On 13-05-25 06:02 AM, Slack Rat wrote: > Peter a ?crit profondement: > > | I do not live in .ca but I keep an eye on the media almost daily. My eye(s) > | just about popped out upon reading this: >> > | http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/24/canada-post-asks-canadians-to-accept-junk-mail-by-sending-them-junk-mail/ >> > | This has got to be a joke. Who pays for this?! Also, any plans to make email > | spam reading mandatory? >> > | Cynically, paper spam should be mandatorily printed on environmentally > | friendly paper with non toxic inks. That way, one would get stove kindling > | delivered for free, sort of. > > Well now, Canada is certainly making news lately. > > What with the Mayor of Toronto being pictured in the press Stoned > on Crack, one has to wonder what will come next, Eh ? > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 25 17:25:41 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 13:25:41 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130525172541.GA29607@node1.localdomain> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 09:14:43AM +0000, Peter wrote: > I do not live in .ca but I keep an eye on the media almost daily. My eye(s) > just about popped out upon reading this: > > http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/24/canada-post-asks-canadians-to-accept-junk-mail-by-sending-them-junk-mail/ > > This has got to be a joke. Who pays for this?! Also, any plans to make > email spam reading mandatory? Hmm... I didn't know that I can put up "no flyers" on my mailbox. :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 25 18:17:20 2013 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 11:17:20 -0700 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: <20130521150508.GC24879-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> <20130521150508.GC24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On May 21, 2013 8:05 AM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > > On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 06:11:01PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > I had it with wireless speed, so I'm thinking about running wires around > > outside of my house. I have question... > > > > - For crossover cable, some say just cross two pairs (Green/Orange), > > but others say cross all four pairs (Green/Orange and Blue/Brown). > > Which is right? > > Don't bother with crossover. > > Gigabit doesn't need it, and most switches are auto crossover anyhow > even for 100Mbit. > > Certainly inside the wall pin1 should go to pin1. Don't hide crossovers > in the wall. Just run all the wires stright from one jack to another in > the wall with the same pins matching at each end and it should all work. > > > - Should I use T568A or T568B? Some say T568B, but others (citing > > US Gov) say T568A. Well, crossover cable is essentially going > > from T568A to T568B, but only for Green/Orange. As long as the > > two ends are the same, should it matter? > > > > - Any recommendation for store that sells decent (in quality/price) > > ethernet cable and crimping tools and parts? Default is Home > > Depot. > > That's where I got stuff in the past. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists If you can wait a little bit on delivery, monprice.com is great for network odds & ends. I wired my house with cat5e keystones all over in important locations. Got all my crimp/punch tools, keystones, and even a patch-panel from MP. They also have repeaters and switches but I've never tried their branded electronics so can't recommend them either ways. Saves a ton over Home Depot, except bigger stuff where the weight/size can kill you on shipping (recommend USPS to save brokerage/duties). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 25 18:32:15 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 14:32:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: <51A0EC83.5090805-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <84obbzbcny.fsf@free.fr> <51A0EC83.5090805@sobac.com> Message-ID: <51A103AF.3040202@gmail.com> On 13-05-25 12:53 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > > The enclosed letter also said that if the response card wasn't > received, junk mail delivery would resume in a few weeks... You said it was a postage-paid response card? Well, we could always tape it to a brick when we return it ? (I've heard this idea variously attributed to Abbie Hoffman and a Scandinavian citizen group. It may no longer work.) I like getting mail: packages, personal letters, cards, QSL cards from the bureau; fun stuff. Everything else, I get electronically, including all but one of my bills. Unfortunately, the Canada Post service has been so whittled down to be close to useless when compared to other countries. I see them having value as a carrier of record, and maybe for providing a recorded electronic service. But to compete against commercial carriers, they can't. ?No Flyers/Junk Mail? stickers do (sorta) work. Keeps everyone away except realtors, politicians and other low-lifes. My neighbour who delivers the local free-sheet was aghast when I said I didn't want it. ?But it has discounts!? he spluttered, amazed that I wouldn't want half a kilo of extra recycling every week. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat May 25 21:27:30 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 17:27:30 -0400 Subject: Sound cards, free to good home Message-ID: <20130525212730.GA16514@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Free to good home: 1. Creative Xonar hdav1.3 2. Creative X-Fi (model SB0880) 3. M-Audio Audiophile 2496 -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun May 26 01:19:51 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 21:19:51 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130526011951.GA12395@waltdnes.org> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 09:14:43AM +0000, Peter wrote > I do not live in .ca but I keep an eye on the media almost daily. My eye(s) > just about popped out upon reading this: > > http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/24/canada-post-asks-canadians-to-accept-junk-mail-by-sending-them-junk-mail/ > > This has got to be a joke. Who pays for this?! Actually, it's the other way around, junk mail subsidizes regular mail. We'd be paying a lot more to send the Christmas card to Aunt Ethel, if not for the subsidy from junk mail. I know this sounds like nit-picking, but there are 2 separate issues here... 1) Junk mail delivered via Canada Post 2) Flyers/community-newspapers/etc dropped off by commercial services paying minimum wage to their employees. I live in a condo building, so only postal employees can drop stuff into my mailbox. I only get item 1 above, so I don't mind. What's really ruined it for Canada Post is all flyer-droppers who by-pass Canada Post and have stuff stashed into your mailbox, under your door, etc. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 26 01:55:35 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 21:55:35 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: <20130526011951.GA12395-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130526011951.GA12395@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <51A16B97.1020704@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > I live in a condo building, so only postal employees can drop stuff > into my mailbox. I only get item 1 above, so I don't mind. What's > really ruined it for Canada Post is all flyer-droppers who by-pass > Canada Post and have stuff stashed into your mailbox, under your door, > etc. If you catch those guys, tell them they're trespassing on private property and have to leave immediately. They have no business being there and "doing their job" does not give them the right to trespass on private property.. As a condo owner, it is your right to do so. I have even called police on some people (bible thumpers & JWs and "energy marketers") who were going door to door and refused to leave. One even tried claiming the roads within my condo were public property!. Other than political canvasers, no one has the right to go door to door on condo property, or any private property for that matter. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 26 02:30:09 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 22:30:09 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: <519CF1EE.2030106-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20130521232159.GA23001@node1.localdomain> <20130522143254.GJ24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <519CF00B.6060904@ss.org> <519CF1EE.2030106@ss.org> Message-ID: On 22 May 2013 12:27, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 05/22/2013 12:19 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: >> >> On 05/22/2013 10:32 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 09:15:32AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> That chip does run quite warm though, even when it's not under heavy >>>> load. I need to follow Len's advice and find a way to get a heat sink >>>> on it. There are no supports, anyone have any idea where I could get >>>> one or how to mount it? >>> >>> Hmm, lots of places certainly claim it does not need a heatsink. >>> >>> I know it is possible to buy small heatsinks which could then be glued on >>> (hopefully with glue that can be removed again and which tolerates heat). >>> >> >> Many of the kits I've seen use two-sided adhesive thermal pads. Many >> heatsinks come with them pre-applied. >> >> There have been vendors taking advantage of supplying kits for the >> Raspberry Pi and the Xbox 360 (know for needing replacements after Red >> Ring of Death repairs). >> >> Just some random links I found, you should do your own hunting. > > > Or go to the source. Digikey heat sink search filtered with BGA package type > and adhesive tape included. Just filter further with the size of the BBB's > chip size. Creatron has a couple sizes of small heatsinks, and thermal tape. The size match isn't perfect, but it's close and seems to be doing the job. Reflashing with the latest system image has also cured the ssh server problem: dropbear is working properly. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun May 26 05:11:13 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 01:11:13 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: <51A16B97.1020704-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130526011951.GA12395@waltdnes.org> <51A16B97.1020704@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130526051113.GA13281@waltdnes.org> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 09:55:35PM -0400, James Knott wrote > If you catch those guys, tell them they're trespassing on private > property and have to leave immediately. They have no business > being there and "doing their job" does not give them the right to > trespass on private property.. As a condo owner, it is your right > to do so. I have even called police on some people (bible thumpers & > JWs and "energy marketers") who were going door to door and refused > to leave. One even tried claiming the roads within my condo were > public property!. Other than political canvasers, no one has the > right to go door to door on condo property, or any private property > for that matter. I haven't been bothered by door-knockers, or I might've just lucked out with being out when they called. As I said, one advantage of condo or apartment living is that only posties can stick stuff into my mailbox. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 26 07:59:10 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 03:59:10 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black - WAS: Time for Pi In-Reply-To: References: <20130521232159.GA23001@node1.localdomain> <20130522143254.GJ24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <519CF00B.6060904@ss.org> <519CF1EE.2030106@ss.org> Message-ID: <20130526075910.GA18139@node1.localdomain> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 10:30:09PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > Reflashing with the latest system image has also cured the ssh server > problem: dropbear is working properly. I guess I'll find out when I get mine, but... When you ssh in, do you see message printed before the prompt? Try ssh remote.ip true Do you still see the message? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 26 21:00:45 2013 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 21:00:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! References: <20130525172541.GA29607@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: William Park writes: > Hmm... I didn't know that I can put up "no flyers" on my mailbox. The witty response to that would be to receive a lot of paper spam marked 'This is not a flyer' on each sheet with a rubber stamp... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 26 21:08:32 2013 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 21:08:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! References: Message-ID: So from my brief stay in .ca and longer stays in other places I can say that: - Any mail service can become highly competitive if it starts delivering small parcels to people's doors. Size should be limited, standard padded envelope, etc, but 90% of gadgets home delivered can be delivered by the post office. One such overgrown post office 'offspring' is DHL which literally a spawn of the German state mail system's privatized splinter. We all know who DHL is. Why not Canada Parcel Post? Chop some red tape and union pie and you have it. Plus Canada really needs such a service due to its size imho. Incidentally, all state mail services are subsidized somewhat but all are under pressure to privatize, in Europe too. And most state operated mail services have all the union and political burden I saw in .ca . So nothing new there, but DHL is a pretty good example how far a splinter can fly from the trunk... - I was not happy, while in Canada, that small post offices were franchised to people (in central .TO) who barely spoke English. I'd expect people who operate a post office to be fluent in at least one of the national languages, and possibly take an appropriate exam in that domain to be licensed or franchised. Same thing for pharmacy clerks, imho., and both with VERY good reason. I have my experiences there too. Scary ones. It's all so simple and so easy when viewed from a distance. A 'new pair of eyes'? -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 26 21:14:18 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 17:14:18 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51A27B29.1050009@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > One such overgrown post office 'offspring' is DHL which > literally a spawn of the German state mail system's privatized splinter. We > all know who DHL is. Why not Canada Parcel Post? Chop some red tape and > union pie and you have it. It's called "Purolator". CP bought them years ago. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 26 22:02:39 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 18:02:39 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: <51A27B29.1050009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <51A27B29.1050009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51A2867F.4030100@sobac.com> On 13-05-26 05:14 PM, James Knott wrote: > Peter wrote: >> One such overgrown post office 'offspring' is DHL which >> literally a spawn of the German state mail system's privatized >> splinter. We >> all know who DHL is. Why not Canada Parcel Post? Chop some red tape and >> union pie and you have it. > > It's called "Purolator". CP bought them years ago. And there was Priority Post[1] too. Still exists, apparently. I don't think they were ever competitive in the courier market. Didn't know Purolator had been bought by Canada Post. There's nothing about ownership on the Purolator "About" page[2]. And Wikipedia tells me that Purolator uses DHL for international shipments[3]... --Bob. [1] http://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGprtycour-e.asp [2] http://www.purolator.com/en/resources-and-support/about-us/corporate-information/corporate-profile.page [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purolator_Courier -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 26 22:38:45 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 18:38:45 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: <51A2867F.4030100-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A27B29.1050009@rogers.com> <51A2867F.4030100@sobac.com> Message-ID: > >> One such overgrown post office 'offspring' is DHL which > >> literally a spawn of the German state mail system's privatized > >> splinter. We > >> all know who DHL is. Why not Canada Parcel Post? Chop some red tape and > >> union pie and you have it. > > > > It's called "Purolator". CP bought them years ago. > > > And there was Priority Post[1] too. Still exists, apparently. I don't > think they were ever competitive in the courier market. > I think they are competitive, try sending similar parcel on Fedex and with Canada post. They have better rate for same delivery times > Didn't know Purolator had been bought by Canada Post. There's nothing > about ownership on the Purolator "About" page[2]. And Wikipedia tells me > that Purolator uses DHL for international shipments[3]... Didn't know that too .. Was it recent? And boy, its not going to end up as DHL, Purolator sucks so bad that I can't seem to think of how they can help Canada Post > William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 26 22:43:05 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 18:43:05 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: <51A2867F.4030100-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A27B29.1050009@rogers.com> <51A2867F.4030100@sobac.com> Message-ID: <51A28FF9.50702@rogers.com> Bob Jonkman wrote: > Didn't know Purolator had been bought by Canada Post. There's nothing > about ownership on the Purolator "About" page[2]. And Wikipedia tells me > that Purolator uses DHL for international shipments[3]... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Post "The Corporation holds an interest in Purolator Courier, Innovapost, Progistix-Solutions and Canada Post International Limited.[7] In 2000, Canada Post created a company called Epost, allowed customers to receive their bill online for free (in 2007, Epost was absorbed into Canada Post)." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 26 22:57:25 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 18:57:25 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > - Any mail service can become highly competitive if it starts delivering > small parcels to people's doors. Size should be limited, standard padded > envelope, etc, but 90% of gadgets home delivered can be delivered by the > post office. One such overgrown post office 'offspring' is DHL which > literally a spawn of the German state mail system's privatized splinter. We > all know who DHL is. Why not Canada Parcel Post? Chop some red tape and > union pie and you have it. Plus Canada really needs such a service due to > its size imho. Petty good observations. I think too that a natural carrier is necessary in order not to disadvantage those far away from cities. Sure, private carriers can provide the service, but they would either ignore the sparsely populated regions or charge them steeply. That may be fine with most but I don't see how it would be net positive to the economy. Government are supposed to be effective, while private industry thrives on efficiency. Somehow those two are exclusive to each other. > > > - I was not happy, while in Canada, that small post offices were franchised > to people (in central .TO) who barely spoke English. I'd expect people who > operate a post office to be fluent in at least one of the national > languages, and possibly take an appropriate exam in that domain to be > licensed or franchised. Same thing for pharmacy clerks, imho., and both with > VERY good reason. I have my experiences there too. Scary ones. > Partially agree, the franchise model do allow for increased availability. Would be hard to open that many offices for that long - they are open till 9 PM - without costing them serious money. The problem with language has also to do with cost. If they pay well, then the job would attract those with perfect language skills. But I guess that would drive the mailing cost up, so willing to work with them. Heck I have horrible accent too, so I guess I can't criticize anybody for sounding funny. > It's all so simple and so easy when viewed from a distance. A 'new pair of > eyes'? > > -- Peter > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 16:07:26 2013 From: el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:07:26 -0400 Subject: Sound cards, free to good home In-Reply-To: <20130525212730.GA16514-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20130525212730.GA16514@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Hi Neil, If your offer is still open, I'd love to take that M-Audio card off your hands. I still have full-height PCI hardware doing SPDIF etc. Regards, Mike On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > Free to good home: > > 1. Creative Xonar hdav1.3 > 2. Creative X-Fi (model SB0880) > 3. M-Audio Audiophile 2496 > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 16:13:25 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:13:25 -0400 Subject: Sound cards, free to good home In-Reply-To: References: <20130525212730.GA16514@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20130527161325.GA15886@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 12:07:26PM -0400, Mike wrote: > If your offer is still open, I'd love to take that M-Audio card off your > hands. I still have full-height PCI hardware doing SPDIF etc. > Regards, Hi Mike, If you can pick it up at my place in Markham it's all yours. 4 Christian Reesor Park Ave Markham Ontario L6B 1B6 -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 16:20:19 2013 From: el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:20:19 -0400 Subject: Sound cards, free to good home In-Reply-To: <20130527161325.GA15886-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20130525212730.GA16514@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20130527161325.GA15886@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 12:07:26PM -0400, Mike wrote: > >> If your offer is still open, I'd love to take that M-Audio card off your >> hands. I still have full-height PCI hardware doing SPDIF etc. >> Regards, >> > > Hi Mike, > > If you can pick it up at my place in Markham it's all yours. > > You are a generous gentleman and I am wheels. I'll arrange with you out of band. Regards, Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 17:17:02 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 13:17:02 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> <20130521150508.GC24879@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130527171702.GA11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 11:17:20AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > If you can wait a little bit on delivery, monprice.com is great for network > odds & ends. I wired my house with cat5e keystones all over in important > locations. Got all my crimp/punch tools, keystones, and even a patch-panel > from MP. They also have repeaters and switches but I've never tried their > branded electronics so can't recommend them either ways. > Saves a ton over Home Depot, except bigger stuff where the weight/size can > kill you on shipping (recommend USPS to save brokerage/duties). I find monoprice is great, except when things get heavy, since then shipping kills any savings. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 18:59:20 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 14:59:20 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130527185920.GB11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 06:57:25PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Petty good observations. I think too that a natural carrier is necessary > in order not to disadvantage those far away from cities. > > Sure, private carriers can provide the service, but they would either > ignore the sparsely populated regions or charge them steeply. That may be > fine with most but I don't see how it would be net positive to the > economy. Government are supposed to be effective, while private industry > thrives on efficiency. Somehow those two are exclusive to each other. One could legitimately question if it is economical to have people live in remote places. How is that a benefit to the economy? > Partially agree, the franchise model do allow for increased availability. > Would be hard to open that many offices for that long - they are open till > 9 PM - without costing them serious money. > > The problem with language has also to do with cost. If they pay well, then > the job would attract those with perfect language skills. But I guess that > would drive the mailing cost up, so willing to work with them. Heck I have > horrible accent too, so I guess I can't criticize anybody for sounding > funny. I can't recall having encountered language problems at a post office counter. Must be other parts of Toronto I haven't had to use the post office in. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 19:00:15 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 15:00:15 -0400 Subject: Sound cards, free to good home In-Reply-To: <20130525212730.GA16514-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <20130525212730.GA16514@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20130527190015.GC11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 05:27:30PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > Free to good home: > > 1. Creative Xonar hdav1.3 You must mean Asus. > 2. Creative X-Fi (model SB0880) > 3. M-Audio Audiophile 2496 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 19:06:19 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 15:06:19 -0400 Subject: Sound cards, free to good home In-Reply-To: <20130527190015.GC11184-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130525212730.GA16514@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20130527190015.GC11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130527190619.GA27923@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 03:00:15PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 05:27:30PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: >> Free to good home: >> >> 1. Creative Xonar hdav1.3 > >You must mean Asus. Yes, Asus. My mistake. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 19:06:32 2013 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos Weatherill) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 15:06:32 -0400 Subject: Sound cards, free to good home In-Reply-To: References: <20130525212730.GA16514@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <20130527161325.GA15886@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Hello Neil, It's Amos. I'm still interested in the two Creative Cards, if no one else has asked for them. I've asked Mike to pick up the two Creative Cards for me when he drops by your place to pick the card that he's getting from you, if that's all right. He can drop them off to me, if he can get them for you. Please let me know. Cheers, Amos On 27 May 2013 12:20, Mike wrote: > On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > >> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 12:07:26PM -0400, Mike wrote: >> >>> If your offer is still open, I'd love to take that M-Audio card off >>> your >>> hands. I still have full-height PCI hardware doing SPDIF etc. >>> Regards, >>> >> >> Hi Mike, >> >> If you can pick it up at my place in Markham it's all yours. >> >> > You are a generous gentleman and I am wheels. I'll arrange with you out of > band. > > Regards, > Mike > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 19:51:57 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 15:51:57 -0400 Subject: Top posting Message-ID: Found this sig while doing an unrelated web search today. I include the author's info as attribution. Maybe GTALUG's footer should include this ... - - Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office 216 Dalton Rd. (508) 893-9889 - FAX Holliston, MA 01746 _____________________________________________________________________ A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 19:58:48 2013 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:58:48 -0300 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2013/5/27 Giles Orr > Found this sig while doing an unrelated web search today. I include > the author's info as attribution. Maybe GTALUG's footer should > include this ... > > Kind of funny because I can remember seeing this discussion on many many lists/groups (including tlug, I guess) and it will always have people defending top posts... and people defending the opposite. Avoid top posting is a good idea, imoo, but after all, I'm not sure we can "win this war". > - - > Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com > RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office > 216 Dalton Rd. (508) 893-9889 - FAX > Holliston, MA 01746 > _____________________________________________________________________ > > A: Yes. > > Q: Are you sure? > >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. > >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib P?s-Graduando em Governan?a de Tecnologia da Informa??o - EST?CIO/FIC Graduado em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 20:01:01 2013 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:01:01 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> On 05/27/2013 03:58 PM, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > 2013/5/27 Giles Orr > > > Found this sig while doing an unrelated web search today. I include > the author's info as attribution. Maybe GTALUG's footer should > include this ... > > > Kind of funny because I can remember seeing this discussion on many many > lists/groups (including tlug, I guess) and it will always have people > defending top posts... and people defending the opposite. > > Avoid top posting is a good idea, imoo, but after all, I'm not sure we > can "win this war". I always try to bottom post. That said, in my business dealings outside of the technical industry, I get flack for top-posting. "I don't see your reply" is the common complaint. So now I don't care. I'll try to follow running threads, but I stopped getting worked up over it. Did the idea/message get through? Then good, job done. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 20:05:19 2013 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:05:19 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A3BB7D.70007-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: Personally I don't like bottom posting I find it harder to read. Especially now that people seem to be sending HTML emails which are screwing up the
tag. On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 05/27/2013 03:58 PM, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: >> >> >> 2013/5/27 Giles Orr > >> >> >> Found this sig while doing an unrelated web search today. I include >> the author's info as attribution. Maybe GTALUG's footer should >> include this ... >> >> >> Kind of funny because I can remember seeing this discussion on many many >> lists/groups (including tlug, I guess) and it will always have people >> defending top posts... and people defending the opposite. >> >> Avoid top posting is a good idea, imoo, but after all, I'm not sure we >> can "win this war". > > > I always try to bottom post. That said, in my business dealings outside of > the technical industry, I get flack for top-posting. "I don't see your > reply" is the common complaint. So now I don't care. I'll try to follow > running threads, but I stopped getting worked up over it. > > Did the idea/message get through? Then good, job done. > > -- > Digimer > Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ > What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without > access to education? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Myles Braithwaite -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 20:14:38 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:14:38 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51A3BEAE.9080404@ve3syb.ca> On 13-05-27 03:58 PM, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Kind of funny because I can remember seeing this discussion on many many > lists/groups (including tlug, I guess) and it will always have people > defending top posts... and people defending the opposite. > > Avoid top posting is a good idea, imoo, but after all, I'm not sure we can > "win this war". I prefer bottom posting as I can jump in to a message of a thread I was previously ignoring, read down it and get the gist of it. The one reason I heard for top posting was for people reading on small handheld devices (ie. phones), who didn't want to have to scroll through a lot of text to get to the new comment(s). Part of that argument goes away when people learn to properly edit messages before adding their comments and hitting send. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 20:18:15 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:18:15 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <51A3BF87.9060304@ve3syb.ca> On 13-05-27 04:05 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Personally I don't like bottom posting I find it harder to read. > Especially now that people seem to be sending HTML emails which are > screwing up the
tag. I have my email program set to show all messages as text only. Messes things up a bit when someone sends what is really a form of web page as a message but when its just text and not a copy of a web page it doesn't matter. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 20:27:14 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:27:14 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 04:05:19PM -0400, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Personally I don't like bottom posting I find it harder to read. > Especially now that people seem to be sending HTML emails which are > screwing up the
tag. I don't read HTML emails. If there is a plain text version, I read that, and otherwise I don't read it at all. People that send HTML only generally haven't said anything I would care to read anyhow. At least that's my assumption. I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary obviously. :) And generally useful responses are interleaved with the quoted message, since trying to make sense of an interesting discussion otherwise becomes imposible. Maybe people that only have trivial conversations can get away with top posting. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 20:30:51 2013 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:30:51 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <20130527202714.GD11184-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51A3C27B.5070905@alteeve.ca> On 05/27/2013 04:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 04:05:19PM -0400, Myles Braithwaite wrote: >> Personally I don't like bottom posting I find it harder to read. >> Especially now that people seem to be sending HTML emails which are >> screwing up the
tag. > > I don't read HTML emails. If there is a plain text version, I read that, > and otherwise I don't read it at all. > > People that send HTML only generally haven't said anything I would care > to read anyhow. At least that's my assumption. I haven't seen any > evidence to the contrary obviously. :) > > And generally useful responses are interleaved with the quoted message, > since trying to make sense of an interesting discussion otherwise > becomes imposible. Maybe people that only have trivial conversations > can get away with top posting. That's a pretty dismissive attitude, if I may say so. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 20:36:02 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:36:02 -0400 Subject: Talking about talks Message-ID: We've been talking at board meetings over the last couple months about ideas about talks to have forthcome; we have had the good fortune of having some rather good speakers with excellent topics emerging from various directions. But there are areas where we have had some ideas that aren't pointing us at contacts to people that can usefully speak on the topics, and we're hoping that there might be some ideas to be gleaned from people on the mailing list. To that end, I'm throwing a few of our ideas over to the list to see if a broader set of listeners have contacts around town that we weren't aware of. As a starting point, there have been aspirational thoughts to the effect of "wouldn't it be nice to hear what's going on with X11?" That could readily be extended to related systems such as Wayland, Unity, Gnome, KDE. It is not evident that any of the developers involved with these systems are in the Toronto area, but perhaps someone knows someone. Red Hat does have a Toronto office, and I seem to recall one of the developers involved with Gnumeric having moved into the region a few years ago. (I could probably find more about such if I poked into my archives a bit more, though I'm more interested in hearing if others have other contacts). -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 20:40:25 2013 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:40:25 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A3C27B.5070905-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A3C27B.5070905@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: Those of us who use gmail often don't know whether we are bottom- or top-posting so you'll have to forgive us occasionally. And we really don't care much when reading threads because the client does such a lovely job of keeping everything in order. That said, we'll try to bear this in mind in our responses. You'll notice with this post I'm avoiding the issue. John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 20:46:24 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:46:24 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A3C27B.5070905-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A3C27B.5070905@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <20130527204624.GE11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 04:30:51PM -0400, Digimer wrote: > That's a pretty dismissive attitude, if I may say so. Yes it is. But I hate receiving HTML only email that I simply can't read, and then going through effort to find a way to read it onyl to discover it offered nothing of value. Especially on a mailing list that explicitly says no HTML allowed. And top posting really does not work for technical discussions, which is often what happens on this list. And excusses about email clients and use of cell phones are irrelevant. Don't use a device for something it isn't suited for. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 20:49:12 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:49:12 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A3C27B.5070905@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <20130527204912.GF11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 04:40:25PM -0400, John Martin wrote: > Those of us who use gmail often don't know whether we are bottom- or > top-posting so you'll have to forgive us occasionally. And we really don't > care much when reading threads because the client does such a lovely job of > keeping everything in order. Actually gmail doesn't do that good a job of thread handling. It mostly just piles things in a list. And I have never had any issue knowing where I was writing my reply in gmail. It's a very nice webmail system, but it isn't great for mailing lists that get technical. > That said, we'll try to bear this in mind in our responses. > > You'll notice with this post I'm avoiding the issue. Sure by assuming people remember what the discussion is about and not including any context. Someone that read and deleted the other messages in this thread, and they didn't read the list for a week very well might not remember what it was about and be confused by your message. Maybe. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon May 27 21:56:41 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 17:56:41 -0400 Subject: (question) Ethernet cable wiring In-Reply-To: <20130518221101.GA21053-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221101.GA21053@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: For cables, I have three sources depending on the demands of quality and speed. Best quality, reasonable cost, (if you but any quantity, but shipping for singles is outrageous): Monoprice. Best price, decent quality: Chinese eBay stores, if you can wait a month. Fastest speed, reasonable prices: Canada Computers or NCIX Sayal is also good but it's not very convenient to me. On 18 May 2013 18:11, William Park wrote: > Hi, > > I had it with wireless speed, so I'm thinking about running wires around > outside of my house. I have question... > > - For crossover cable, some say just cross two pairs (Green/Orange), > but others say cross all four pairs (Green/Orange and Blue/Brown). > Which is right? > > - Should I use T568A or T568B? Some say T568B, but others (citing > US Gov) say T568A. Well, crossover cable is essentially going > from T568A to T568B, but only for Green/Orange. As long as the > two ends are the same, should it matter? > > - Any recommendation for store that sells decent (in quality/price) > ethernet cable and crimping tools and parts? Default is Home > Depot. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 00:53:30 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 20:53:30 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <20130527202714.GD11184-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> On 13-05-27 04:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > People that send HTML only generally haven't said anything I would care > to read anyhow. Our counsel - both internal, and a raft of Bay and Wellington street externals - use it exclusively. I doubt a judge would would take a very lenient view of "I don't read HTML emails". cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 01:43:45 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 21:43:45 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A4000A.2020203-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 13-05-27 04:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> People that send HTML only generally haven't said anything I would care >> to read anyhow. > > Our counsel - both internal, and a raft of Bay and Wellington street > externals - use it exclusively. I doubt a judge would would take a very > lenient view of "I don't read HTML emails". [rant] While I agree with judges reacting this way (being skeptical of a seemingly arbitrary [and possibly convenient] choice) it also enforces my belief that lawmakers should have more-than-passing education in how the internet works. Yes, HTML-only mail includes the text of a message but the messages' source code is not meant to be read by humans; all kinds of things [for good or evil] can be hidden inside HTML-only messages. The legal profession should, IMHO, prefer plaintext for clarity & security. Markup makes sense regarding contracts (licenses et al) and marketing (fancy fonts, logos & images), but not for general communication. [/rant] PS: Somewhat related: -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 03:11:53 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 23:11:53 -0400 Subject: Free Geek Toronto [was: Time for Pi] In-Reply-To: <51990AB9.3000909-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51970D95.6010009@tao.ca> <20130519064841.GA3039@waltdnes.org> <51990AB9.3000909@sobac.com> Message-ID: On 19 May 2013 13:24, Bob Jonkman wrote: > Free Geek Toronto is at 51B Vine Ave, not that far from Dufferin and > Steeles: http://osrm.at/3i2 I may have stuff for them. But if they're on Vine Avenue they're nowhere near Dufferin and Steeles. Both the open map you gave and the closed one commonly used peg that address near Keele and Dundas, Besides a PC I also have an old Linksys WRT54GS (v2) router, too old to do N-speed wireless but capable of taking OpenWRT. If anyone at TLUG is interested in it I can bring it to the next meeting. If not it goes to Freegeek,. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 09:08:27 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 05:08:27 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black -- specs Message-ID: <20130528090827.GA17771@node1.localdomain> I got my BeagleBone Black today, and here are few specs. 1. reading throughput: - nc laptop 9999 < /dev/zero # 11 MB/s - ssh beaglebone cat /etc/zero > /dev/null # 9 MB/s - scp beaglebone:some.iso /tmp/ # 8 MB/s - rsync beaglebone:some.iso /tmp/ # 7 MB/s 2. writing throughput: - scp some.iso beaglebone: # 2 MB/s - rsync some.iso beaglebone: # 2 MB/s 3. cat /proc/partitions major minor #blocks name 179 0 1875968 mmcblk0 179 1 72261 mmcblk0p1 179 2 1799280 mmcblk0p2 179 16 1024 mmcblk0boot1 179 8 1024 mmcblk0boot0 4. fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0 Disk /dev/mmcblk0: 1920 MB, 1920991232 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 233 cylinders, total 3751936 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk identifier: 0x00000000 Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/mmcblk0p1 * 63 144584 72261 c W95 FAT32 (LBA) /dev/mmcblk0p2 144585 3743144 1799280 83 Linux 5. hdparm -tT /dev/mmcblk0 Timing cached reads: 196 MB in 2.01 seconds = 97.48 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 54 MB in 3.04 seconds = 17.74 MB/sec 6. cat /proc/cpuinfo processor : 0 model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 2 (v7l) BogoMIPS : 990.68 Features : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp thumbee neon vfpv3 tls CPU implementer : 0x41 CPU architecture: 7 CPU variant : 0x3 CPU part : 0xc08 CPU revision : 2 Hardware : Generic AM33XX (Flattened Device Tree) Revision : 0000 Serial : 0000000000000000 7. df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on rootfs 1738184 1283748 364472 78% / /dev/root 1738184 1283748 364472 78% / devtmpfs 255336 0 255336 0% /dev tmpfs 255436 4 255432 1% /dev/shm tmpfs 255436 224 255212 1% /run tmpfs 255436 0 255436 0% /sys/fs/cgroup tmpfs 255436 4 255432 1% /tmp /dev/mmcblk0p1 71133 55238 15896 78% /media/BEAGLEBONE_ 8. free total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 510872 340396 170476 0 8152 239916 -/+ buffers/cache: 92328 418544 Swap: 0 0 0 9. uname -a Linux beaglebone 3.8.11 #1 SMP Wed May 8 07:34:27 CEST 2013 armv7l GNU/Linux -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 14:37:58 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 10:37:58 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A4000A.2020203-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 08:53:30PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Our counsel - both internal, and a raft of Bay and Wellington street > externals - use it exclusively. I doubt a judge would would take a very > lenient view of "I don't read HTML emails". Well given my email client doesn't do HTML, it is a fact. I would say what you are doing is a bad idea and you should correct it. HTML email support is NOT universal, and assuming it is, is a terrible idea, especially if what you are sending is actually important. Any sane email system supports sending both HTML and plain text at the same time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 14:43:08 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 10:43:08 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black -- specs In-Reply-To: <20130528090827.GA17771-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130528090827.GA17771@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130528144308.GH11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 05:08:27AM -0400, William Park wrote: > I got my BeagleBone Black today, and here are few specs. > > 1. reading throughput: > - nc laptop 9999 < /dev/zero # 11 MB/s > - ssh beaglebone cat /etc/zero > /dev/null # 9 MB/s > - scp beaglebone:some.iso /tmp/ # 8 MB/s > - rsync beaglebone:some.iso /tmp/ # 7 MB/s > > 2. writing throughput: > - scp some.iso beaglebone: # 2 MB/s > - rsync some.iso beaglebone: # 2 MB/s > > 3. cat /proc/partitions > major minor #blocks name > 179 0 1875968 mmcblk0 > 179 1 72261 mmcblk0p1 > 179 2 1799280 mmcblk0p2 > 179 16 1024 mmcblk0boot1 > 179 8 1024 mmcblk0boot0 > > 4. fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0 > Disk /dev/mmcblk0: 1920 MB, 1920991232 bytes > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 233 cylinders, total 3751936 sectors > Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes > Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > Disk identifier: 0x00000000 > Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System > /dev/mmcblk0p1 * 63 144584 72261 c W95 FAT32 (LBA) > /dev/mmcblk0p2 144585 3743144 1799280 83 Linux > > 5. hdparm -tT /dev/mmcblk0 > Timing cached reads: 196 MB in 2.01 seconds = 97.48 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 54 MB in 3.04 seconds = 17.74 MB/sec > > 6. cat /proc/cpuinfo > processor : 0 > model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 2 (v7l) > BogoMIPS : 990.68 > Features : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp thumbee neon vfpv3 tls > CPU implementer : 0x41 > CPU architecture: 7 > CPU variant : 0x3 > CPU part : 0xc08 > CPU revision : 2 > Hardware : Generic AM33XX (Flattened Device Tree) > Revision : 0000 > Serial : 0000000000000000 > > 7. df > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > rootfs 1738184 1283748 364472 78% / > /dev/root 1738184 1283748 364472 78% / > devtmpfs 255336 0 255336 0% /dev > tmpfs 255436 4 255432 1% /dev/shm > tmpfs 255436 224 255212 1% /run > tmpfs 255436 0 255436 0% /sys/fs/cgroup > tmpfs 255436 4 255432 1% /tmp > /dev/mmcblk0p1 71133 55238 15896 78% /media/BEAGLEBONE_ > > 8. free > total used free shared buffers cached > Mem: 510872 340396 170476 0 8152 239916 > -/+ buffers/cache: 92328 418544 > Swap: 0 0 0 > > 9. uname -a > Linux beaglebone 3.8.11 #1 SMP Wed May 8 07:34:27 CEST 2013 armv7l GNU/Linux I am surprised they would use tmpfs for /tmp on a system with so little RAM. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 16:03:40 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 12:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A4000A.2020203-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Stewart C. Russell | On 13-05-27 04:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: | > | > People that send HTML only generally haven't said anything I would care | > to read anyhow. | | Our counsel - both internal, and a raft of Bay and Wellington street | externals - use it exclusively. I doubt a judge would would take a very | lenient view of "I don't read HTML emails". Are these encrypted? It surprises me that lawyers and accountants only protect mail by a silly warning at the bottom of the message. When you send a message, you send sideband messages too. HTML tells me that you aren't serious -- you are either ignorant or are marketing. HTML has a bunch of risks that lawyers should want to avoid. You should consider educating your lawyers. Now, back to the original subject. I hate top posting AND unselective bottom posting. Interleaved selective commenting, with the comment following the corresponding quotation is the only approach that is respectful of the reader, something most important on a mailing list. In a legal context, perhaps top-posting, leaving the original undisturbed, has some merit. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 16:08:15 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 12:08:15 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <20130528143758.GG11184-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> On 13-05-28 10:37 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Well given my email client doesn't do HTML, it is a fact. One does have to remain current with industry practice. And if the industry uses HTML or Rich Text mail, well? (and srsly, you can't get it to pipe HTML content through 'w3m --dump'?) > HTML email support is NOT universal It is with the professional set. You can send and receive it on Outlook, Blackberry, iPhone, OS X Mail (if you're a ?creative?) or Android (if you're an engineer). That's 999? of the business ecosystem. Don't forget Postel's Law, as enshrined in RFC1122: ?Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send?. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 16:33:23 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 12:33:23 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A4D66F.90604-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Don't forget Postel's Law, as enshrined in RFC1122: ?Be liberal in what > you accept, and conservative in what you send?. > Obviously not being followed, in this case. Following that principle would lead to people tending to being accepting of HTML-based mail (as that's the "liberal" part), and of them being loath to submit it, as it is most definitely NOT the "conservative" thing to send. In effect, what you're describing indicates that "current industry practice" is utterly dismissive of Postel's Law. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 17:02:52 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 14:02:52 -0300 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> Message-ID: Once every a couple months, the "top posting versus bottom posting holy wars" erupt. There is no victory, there are no prevailing parties, there is no peace, no truce. No matter how much time passes, we continue waging this endless war. We have since long lost track of how much hard disks got filled with the resulting messages of this war, and it keeps going and going. We are all stuck on our confirmation bias. We obviously have the simple and absolute truth that we are on the right side, and we just cannot understand why the opposing side cannot see the beauty, simplicity and correctness of our view. Looks like them are stuck on their biases too. And the war keeps going, and going, and going... Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2013/5/28 Christopher Browne > On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > >> Don't forget Postel's Law, as enshrined in RFC1122: ?Be liberal in what >> you accept, and conservative in what you send?. >> > > Obviously not being followed, in this case. > > Following that principle would lead to people tending to being accepting > of HTML-based mail (as that's the "liberal" part), and of them being loath > to submit it, as it is most definitely NOT the "conservative" thing to send. > > In effect, what you're describing indicates that "current industry > practice" is utterly dismissive of Postel's Law. > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 17:21:49 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:21:49 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51A4E7AD.5070007@rogers.com> Mauro Souza wrote: > Once every a couple months, the "top posting versus bottom posting > holy wars" erupt. There is no victory, there are no prevailing > parties, there is no peace, no truce. Perhaps we should compromise and middle post. ;-) > No matter how much time passes, we continue waging this endless war. > We have since long lost track of how much hard disks got filled with > the resulting messages of this war, and it keeps going and going. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 17:34:30 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:34:30 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A4E7AD.5070007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> <51A4E7AD.5070007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130528173430.GA13516@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 01:21:49PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >Mauro Souza wrote: >>Once every a couple months, the "top posting versus bottom posting >>holy wars" erupt. There is no victory, there are no prevailing >>parties, there is no peace, no truce. >Perhaps we should compromise and middle post. ;-) Bah. When the message has an even number of lines some will post above the imagined middle and some will post below. Pure chaos. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 17:43:41 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:43:41 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <3371_1369757318_r4SG8cih005189_51A4D66F.90604-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3371_1369757318_r4SG8cih005189_51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51A4ECCD.3010708@utoronto.ca> On 28/05/13 12:08 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > It is with the professional set. You can send and receive it on Outlook, > Blackberry, iPhone, OS X Mail (if you're a ?creative?) or Android (if > you're an engineer). That's 999? of the business ecosystem. This list is distinctly *not* driven by the business ecosystem, or the legal, or the xyz system. It is a technical mailing list for Linux based discussions, for and by people who ought to know enough to adhere to a common standard of discourse. After all that's what computers and operating systems are, standardized computational tools, from CPU architectures, memory allocation best practices, up to UTF8 email messages and beyond. HTML email, and top-posting on this list are terrible scourges, that should be dealt with in a most severe manner the likes of which Lennart has only hinted at in passing. /dev/null is too warm and inviting a place for such emails :p Why such a strident opinion you might ask? Simply put, HTML email and not taking a moment to reply in-line or bottom post encourages laziness. Most insidious is that the default message composition format and behaviour in many clients encourages this laziness. Granted, like any tool, email can (and should be!) be used by anyone in any manner that they see fit. However, within the context of this list, one should use the tool in a manner that reflects an understanding of the context within which a detail oriented discussion is taking place, and the intended audience of said discussion. To draw upon McLuhan: if the medium is the message (HTML being the medium for the contents of an email), then the message as I see it on a regular basis consists of mostly badly formed syntactic messes of irrelevant divs, fonts and formatting, the sheer bulk of which largely outweigh the actual meaningful content of said message. Signatures are infinitely worse for the value that they impart to a discussion and they deserve their own special place in email hell. Given the subject of this list is highly technical at times, it makes sense to be clear and technical with one's formatting, language, and in using meaningful structures to organize one's ideas. This approach is useful in that it maintains some semblance of logical coherence across multiple highly technical posts (at times), and also maps nicely onto threaded email clients that reflect said structure on a macro-level. I'll be the first to admit that I never live up to that standard of communication on this list, or any other. But it doesn't mean that I ought to be lazy and not try. > Don't forget Postel's Law, as enshrined in RFC1122: ?Be liberal in what > you accept, and conservative in what you send?. A key tenant of all good writing is knowing one's audience. Postel's Law makes for a useful comparison that maps nicely to this discussion: Admitting the premise that we ought to be liberal in what we choose to accept, say on this list a free flowing exchange of ideas between interested parties; it follows that in participating in said exchange we ought to be conservative in the manner in which we choose to express our thoughts, for the aforementioned reasons of maintaining technical clarity, logical coherence, and consideration of others. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 17:48:37 2013 From: el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:48:37 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A4ECCD.3010708-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3371_1369757318_r4SG8cih005189_51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> <51A4ECCD.3010708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Pop toasting? Piddle mosting? Pottom boasting? Who tives a goss? Just spoonerize preceding posts! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 17:50:08 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:50:08 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A4D66F.90604-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130528175008.GI11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 12:08:15PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > One does have to remain current with industry practice. And if the > industry uses HTML or Rich Text mail, well? And if industry goes and jumps of a bridge, you want me to do that too? > (and srsly, you can't get it to pipe HTML content through 'w3m --dump'?) I don't want to. How am I supposed to reply to a pile of HTML in a text editor? If I saw something in the HTML that appeared to actually be of value, then I would do something to make it readable. I almost certainly wouldn't be bothering to try to reply to it, other than with "your HTML email isn't readable". > It is with the professional set. You can send and receive it on Outlook, > Blackberry, iPhone, OS X Mail (if you're a ?creative?) or Android (if > you're an engineer). That's 999? of the business ecosystem. I am using mutt profesionally, as do many other people I know. > Don't forget Postel's Law, as enshrined in RFC1122: ?Be liberal in what > you accept, and conservative in what you send?. Which means, don't send HTML. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 17:53:20 2013 From: el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:53:20 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <20130528175008.GI11184-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> <20130528175008.GI11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > Don't forget Postel's Law, as enshrined in RFC1122: ?Be liberal in what > > you accept, and conservative in what you send?. > > Which means, don't send HTML. > > It also means, in exactly equal measure, that you should receive it graciously. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 18:37:20 2013 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 14:37:20 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A4ECCD.3010708-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3371_1369757318_r4SG8cih005189_51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> <51A4ECCD.3010708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 28/05/13 12:08 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > It is with the professional set. You can send and receive it on Outlook, > > Blackberry, iPhone, OS X Mail (if you're a ?creative?) or Android (if > > you're an engineer). That's 999? of the business ecosystem. > > This list is distinctly *not* driven by the business ecosystem, or the > legal, or the xyz system. It is a technical mailing list for Linux based > discussions, for and by people who ought to know enough to adhere to a > common standard of discourse. After all that's what computers and > operating systems are, standardized computational tools, from CPU > architectures, memory allocation best practices, up to UTF8 email > messages and beyond. > Agreed, a community cannot survive without language rules. But I wonder what all the hot air is about html posting. Technology should be an enabler not a disciplinary tool. In this case HTML5 posts present the possibility of receiving video mail. Do I hear singing telegrams coming to tlug? Randy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 18:38:01 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 14:38:01 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> <20130528175008.GI11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130528183801.GJ11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 01:53:20PM -0400, Mike wrote: > On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Lennart Sorensen < > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > > > Don't forget Postel's Law, as enshrined in RFC1122: ?Be liberal in what > > > you accept, and conservative in what you send?. > > > > Which means, don't send HTML. > > > > It also means, in exactly equal measure, that you should receive it > graciously. HTML doesn't render well in general on a text terminal, and I tend to read my email via ssh using mutt. If formating is important, send a pdf or something. Not as if HTML ensures formating very well at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 18:44:14 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 14:44:14 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <20130528175008.GI11184-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> <20130528175008.GI11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51A4FAFE.5090707@gmail.com> On 13-05-28 01:50 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I don't want to. How am I supposed to reply to a pile of HTML in a > text editor? You'd be replying in plain text to a plain text e-mail, just as you usually do. 'w3m -dump' renders HTML as text. It shows you how to do this in the Mutt manual, ?5.3: http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/manual-5.html#ss5.3 (which refers to the older lynx, which may or may not be able to render tables these days.) Another way to do it: http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/75 cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 18:59:37 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 14:59:37 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3371_1369757318_r4SG8cih005189_51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> <51A4ECCD.3010708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <51A4FE99.8040700@utoronto.ca> On 28/05/13 02:37 PM, Randy Jonasz wrote: > Agreed, a community cannot survive without language rules. But I wonder > what all the hot air is about html posting. Technology should be an > enabler not a disciplinary tool. In this case HTML5 posts present the > possibility of receiving video mail. Do I hear singing telegrams coming to > tlug? With Thunderbird incorporating WebRTC and XMPP support, I don't see why not. I've played around with getUserMedia in Firefox and it work quite well given how new WebRTC support is. However, back to your point, those two are technical protocols that mediate transporting content between computer systems. HTML spans of pink italic 16pt font are not technically required to ensure the delivery of one's emails. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 19:06:36 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 15:06:36 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 27 May 2013 15:51, Giles Orr wrote: > Found this sig while doing an unrelated web search today. I include > the author's info as attribution. Maybe GTALUG's footer should > include this ... > > - - > Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com > RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office > 216 Dalton Rd. (508) 893-9889 - FAX > Holliston, MA 01746 > _____________________________________________________________________ > > A: Yes. >> Q: Are you sure? >>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? I thought it was an amusing joke that related to the list, and didn't realize that it would start yet another top-post-bottom-post flame war. My most sincere apologies. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 19:09:40 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 15:09:40 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A3BEAE.9080404-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BEAE.9080404@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20130528190940.GA32482@node1.localdomain> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 04:14:38PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > I prefer bottom posting as I can jump in to a message of a thread I > was previously ignoring, read down it and get the gist of it. The > one reason I heard for top posting was for people reading on small > handheld devices (ie. phones), who didn't want to have to scroll > through a lot of text to get to the new comment(s). Part of that > argument goes away when people learn to properly edit messages > before adding their comments and hitting send. I think you hit it right on the head... that is, how many keystrokes does it take to get to the point. For those with big monitor, it's bottom posting because they can most likely see the whole message in one screen. For those with small monitor, it's top posting because getting to the bottom is just too much keystrokes or sliding. For those with medium monitor, it depends on the content. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 21:30:46 2013 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 21:30:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! References: <20130527185920.GB11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen writes: > I can't recall having encountered language problems at a post office > counter. Must be other parts of Toronto I haven't had to use the post > office in. Okay, I apologize for coming across like that. It was just 2 post offices and very briefly, maybe it was a freak in personnel, both were very small family businesses. But I noticed other people in the queue also had trouble. Let's hope it was a freak case. Or two. The pharmacy issue was much worse. Having no clerk or cashier being able to answer the question "where can I please find the non stick sterile compression bandages for open bleeding wounds" while a senior on warfarin with a leg scratch was bleeding profusely across the street was not amusing. I had to find the item and of course it was on the last possible shelf I looked. I do not care whether it was a mixture of lacking English, lacking training in handling customers, or just f* don't careness. I sure had to ask the young lady at the cash register to turn the display so I could see it since I could not make out the figure she told me, twice, when I checked out. I am not a native English speaker and I do have trouble with some English accents (mostly from England...), but those two were the only 2 occurences I ever had in TO. They also stung the most, especially the pharmacy. My scores in comprehension, spoken and written English are and always were the highest attainable for a nonprofessional translator or linguist, so I don't think it was me. So I apologize again for coming across like that, they were just personal experiences which were not the best, and probably do not represent the situation as it is. As to people living in the boonies, they do that for a reason usually, for example to earn their livelihood, out of tradition, or both. A country needs to decide whether it wishes to develop its entirety or just the narrow strip which sufficiently resembles the Southern neighbor's pastures (pun intended, and I did not say 'greener', although they might be so), and then stand by it. Canada made that choice a long time ago and that is one of the reasons why Canada is rated the 3rd best country in the world by quality of life. $0.02 -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 22:15:28 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 18:15:28 -0400 Subject: OT: Canadians asked to accept spam?! In-Reply-To: References: <20130527185920.GB11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 5:30 PM, Peter wrote: > Lennart Sorensen writes: > > I can't recall having encountered language problems at a post office > > counter. Must be other parts of Toronto I haven't had to use the post > > office in. > > Okay, I apologize for coming across like that. It was just 2 post offices > and very briefly, maybe it was a freak in personnel, both were very small > family businesses. But I noticed other people in the queue also had > trouble. > Let's hope it was a freak case. Or two. > I live in Agincourt, which I occasionally hear dubbed "Asiancourt," and it's fair to think that there are more Chinese in the region than there are "white Anglos" like myself. That being the case, there will doubtless be some stores in the area that will get much more accustomed to Mandarin-speaking customers than anything else. To someone to whom the "language issue" of Canada is all about French-versus-English, encountering a shop where *neither* of those languages are aptly spoken will surely come as a shock to the system. At my own post office, embedded in a little nearby pharmacy, I have not yet seen anyone on the postal staff lacking Asian features. Happily, I haven't had difficulty communicating with them, and if they were insufficiently able to communicate in English, this would indeed become a problem, as the local demographics involve other cultural sources, notably rather a lot of Tamils, that are not too likely to speak Chinese languages. As we stir more cultures into the pot, having English as a lingua franca becomes all the more essential. (And the fact that I didn't suggest French is quite likely correlated with why we are seeing an up-tick in the news of anti-Anglo rules coming from Quebec; when additional cultures get dropped into Quebec, "lingua franca" becomes more important, and those worried about the loss of French in Quebec get all the more worried at that. Which doesn't prevent their reactions, or the rules, from looking rather draconian and unjust...) I expect that what you describe has happened before, and will happen again. But I'm not sure it's systematically problematic. And making sure that there's not just one language group getting dropped into an area is a help... -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 22:18:54 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 18:18:54 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51A52D4E.7060509@sobac.com> Hugh writes: > It surprises me that lawyers and accountants only protect mail by a > silly warning at the bottom of the message. But they're lawyers. They understand the purpose of a disclaimer, and they have their technical means to make that an effective tool for them. Lawyers have as much affinity for encryption as we have for HTML e-mail. --Bob. On 13-05-28 12:03 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Stewart C. Russell > > | On 13-05-27 04:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > | > > | > People that send HTML only generally haven't said anything I would care > | > to read anyhow. > | > | Our counsel - both internal, and a raft of Bay and Wellington street > | externals - use it exclusively. I doubt a judge would would take a very > | lenient view of "I don't read HTML emails". > > Are these encrypted? > > It surprises me that lawyers and accountants only protect mail by a > silly warning at the bottom of the message. > > When you send a message, you send sideband messages too. HTML tells > me that you aren't serious -- you are either ignorant or are marketing. > > HTML has a bunch of risks that lawyers should want to avoid. You should > consider educating your lawyers. > > > Now, back to the original subject. I hate top posting AND unselective > bottom posting. Interleaved selective commenting, with the comment > following the corresponding quotation is the only approach that is > respectful of the reader, something most important on a mailing list. In > a legal context, perhaps top-posting, leaving the original undisturbed, > has some merit. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 28 22:39:01 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 18:39:01 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A52D4E.7060509-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <51A52D4E.7060509@sobac.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > Hugh writes: > > It surprises me that lawyers and accountants only protect mail by a > > silly warning at the bottom of the message. > > But they're lawyers. They understand the purpose of a disclaimer, and > they have their technical means to make that an effective tool for them. > > Lawyers have as much affinity for encryption as we have for HTML e-mail But they apparently fail to grasp that sometimes such disclaimers are invalid, and that, further, the invalid uses of those disclaimers might well undermine the legitimate ones. The dumb thing I occasionally see on mailing lists is to see these disclaimers put in, indiscriminately by the corporate email infrastructure, even in cases where the nature of the participation was such that the disclaimer was invalid by virtue of where they were participating. That is, if you send email to a public mailing list which has always published public archives of historical material, it is utterly illogical to imagine that the warning is remotely valid. What matters about this isn't my opinion or yours, but rather what an actual judge would decide on the matter; I think it's not unlikely for a judge to have the same "ridiculous!!!" reaction. But if *some* of the disclaimers get invalidated as ridiculous, there is the scary possibility that a judge reacts further, and, in effect, says, "You fools, if you aren't competent to evaluate which of the things you are sending out are sensitive, and hence require such a warning, and which aren't, and so shouldn't have warnings, then I think I have to rule that NONE of those warnings have any effect in law." Oops. This has come up enough times on Postgres-related lists, and the practice has been to jointly lightly roast those that emit the silly disclaimers, and to suggest that they might be taking a legal risk by watering down their traffic in that way. It's really kind of fun to point out the way that that verbiage might introduce a legal risk... -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 01:12:31 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 21:12:31 -0400 Subject: LAN IP Address Oddity Message-ID: I have a couple of PCs and some appliances (eg. TV) behind a Bell router/modem that also acts as my DHCP server. All of the IP addresses seem normal (192.168.2.n), but my main PC now has an external IP address. It is the same address as for the router. The network settings of the changed PC does say DHCP. I was wondering if anyone could help me determine what could cause such a change from the LAN address to an external one? Should I be worried about security? And how do I fix it and prevent it from reoccurring? John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 01:24:01 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 21:24:01 -0400 Subject: LAN IP Address Oddity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51A558B1.2020601@rogers.com> John Moniz wrote: > It is the same address as for the router. That's something that shouldn't happen. Did you by any chance set the router MAC to the same as the computer? DHCP servers assign an IP address to a MAC address and has no idea what device it actually is. Next question is how Bell's DHCP server managed to see the computer, when it's behind a NAT firewall. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 02:27:12 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 22:27:12 -0400 Subject: LAN IP Address Oddity In-Reply-To: <51A558B1.2020601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <51A558B1.2020601@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 05/28/2013 09:24 PM, James Knott wrote: > John Moniz wrote: >> It is the same address as for the router. > > That's something that shouldn't happen. Did you by any chance set the > router MAC to the same as the computer? DHCP servers assign an IP > address to a MAC address and has no idea what device it actually is. > Next question is how Bell's DHCP server managed to see the computer, > when it's behind a NAT firewall. I haven't changed the router MAC, but can't locate it with the browser to prove it. The MAC stencilled on the unit is certainly different than the PC MAC. The eth0 IP address on the PC is the same as the router, definitely ignoring the DHCP range specified. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 10:41:12 2013 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 06:41:12 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51A5DB48.4070102@gmail.com> On 05/28/13 15:06, Giles Orr wrote: > On 27 May 2013 15:51, Giles Orr wrote: >> Found this sig while doing an unrelated web search today. I include >> the author's info as attribution. Maybe GTALUG's footer should >> include this ... >> >> - - >> Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com >> RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office >> 216 Dalton Rd. (508) 893-9889 - FAX >> Holliston, MA 01746 >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> >> A: Yes. >>> Q: Are you sure? >>>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email? > > I thought it was an amusing joke that related to the list, and didn't > realize that it would start yet another top-post-bottom-post flame > war. My most sincere apologies. Within which there was a mini flame war: HTML vs plain text. If I read these threads in Gmail the argument becomes moot. Quoting the previous message becomes unnecessary because Gmail displays threads as conversations and one can view an entire thread simultaneously. Gmail hides message quotes by default giving the reader the option to unhide them. Personally I think conversations should be online, so that they can be revisited at any time in the future. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 13:44:10 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:44:10 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A4ECCD.3010708-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3371_1369757318_r4SG8cih005189_51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> <51A4ECCD.3010708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 28/05/13 12:08 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > It is with the professional set. You can send and receive it on Outlook, > > Blackberry, iPhone, OS X Mail (if you're a ?creative?) or Android (if > > you're an engineer). That's 999? of the business ecosystem. > > This list is distinctly *not* driven by the business ecosystem, or the > legal, or the xyz system. It is a technical mailing list for Linux based > discussions, for and by people who ought to know enough to adhere to a > common standard of discourse. After all that's what computers and > operating systems are, standardized computational tools, from CPU > architectures, memory allocation best practices, up to UTF8 email > messages and beyond. > > HTML email, and top-posting on this list are terrible scourges, that > should be dealt with in a most severe manner the likes of which Lennart > has only hinted at in passing. > > /dev/null is too warm and inviting a place for such emails :p > > Why such a strident opinion you might ask? Simply put, HTML email and > not taking a moment to reply in-line or bottom post encourages laziness. > Most insidious is that the default message composition format and > behaviour in many clients encourages this laziness. > > Granted, like any tool, email can (and should be!) be used by anyone in > any manner that they see fit. However, within the context of this list, > one should use the tool in a manner that reflects an understanding of > the context within which a detail oriented discussion is taking place, > and the intended audience of said discussion. > > To draw upon McLuhan: if the medium is the message (HTML being the > medium for the contents of an email), then the message as I see it on a > regular basis consists of mostly badly formed syntactic messes of > irrelevant divs, fonts and formatting, the sheer bulk of which largely > outweigh the actual meaningful content of said message. Signatures are > infinitely worse for the value that they impart to a discussion and they > deserve their own special place in email hell. > > Given the subject of this list is highly technical at times, it makes > sense to be clear and technical with one's formatting, language, and in > using meaningful structures to organize one's ideas. This approach is > useful in that it maintains some semblance of logical coherence across > multiple highly technical posts (at times), and also maps nicely onto > threaded email clients that reflect said structure on a macro-level. > > I'll be the first to admit that I never live up to that standard of > communication on this list, or any other. But it doesn't mean that I > ought to be lazy and not try. > > > Don't forget Postel's Law, as enshrined in RFC1122: ?Be liberal in what > > you accept, and conservative in what you send?. > > A key tenant of all good writing is knowing one's audience. Postel's Law > makes for a useful comparison that maps nicely to this discussion: > > Admitting the premise that we ought to be liberal in what we choose to > accept, say on this list a free flowing exchange of ideas between > interested parties; it follows that in participating in said exchange we > ought to be conservative in the manner in which we choose to express our > thoughts, for the aforementioned reasons of maintaining technical > clarity, logical coherence, and consideration of others. > > I think you mean 'tenet', but otherwise I 100% agree. This is sarcasm --> Yes, when I read the list in GMail, I have to click 'Reply', and then I have to click to unhide the quoted text, and then I have to scroll down to where I can bottom post. Same when I'm using my phone, and then it's twice as difficult. Oh, the humanity. The woe is beyond my ability to bear it. <-- Sarcasm Seriously, that is pretty much the other side of it isn't it? Really, what it comes down to is some people are saying, very politely "Please, if you are using this list here is a set of rules that have always made it more pleasant for _everyone_ to participate." The response of the top/HTML posters: "I don't feel like it.", and "this is the way big shot lawyers do it" are not arguments in favour of using either methods on _this mailing list_. The immaturity is really unbecoming of supposedly educated people. It's like those American tourists who go to another country and get upset when they don't speak 'Merican. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 13:46:02 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:46:02 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A4ECCD.3010708-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3371_1369757318_r4SG8cih005189_51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> <51A4ECCD.3010708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 28/05/13 12:08 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > It is with the professional set. You can send and receive it on Outlook, > > Blackberry, iPhone, OS X Mail (if you're a ?creative?) or Android (if > > you're an engineer). That's 999? of the business ecosystem. > > This list is distinctly *not* driven by the business ecosystem, or the > legal, or the xyz system. It is a technical mailing list for Linux based > discussions, for and by people who ought to know enough to adhere to a > common standard of discourse. After all that's what computers and > operating systems are, standardized computational tools, from CPU > architectures, memory allocation best practices, up to UTF8 email > messages and beyond. > > > > I'll be the first to admit that I never live up to that standard of > communication on this list, or any other. But it doesn't mean that I > ought to be lazy and not try. Ya, I always forget to snip ;-) -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 14:01:55 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 10:01:55 -0400 Subject: LAN IP Address Oddity In-Reply-To: References: <51A558B1.2020601@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51A60A53.1000702@ss.org> On 05/28/2013 10:27 PM, John Moniz wrote: > On 05/28/2013 09:24 PM, James Knott wrote: >> John Moniz wrote: >>> It is the same address as for the router. >> >> That's something that shouldn't happen. Did you by any chance set the >> router MAC to the same as the computer? DHCP servers assign an IP >> address to a MAC address and has no idea what device it actually is. >> Next question is how Bell's DHCP server managed to see the computer, >> when it's behind a NAT firewall. > > I haven't changed the router MAC, but can't locate it with the browser > to prove it. The MAC stencilled on the unit is certainly different than > the PC MAC. > > The eth0 IP address on the PC is the same as the router, definitely > ignoring the DHCP range specified. > > John. Do you have any DMZ functionality enabled? -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 15:48:35 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 11:48:35 -0400 Subject: LAN IP Address Oddity In-Reply-To: <51A60A53.1000702-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <51A558B1.2020601@rogers.com> <51A60A53.1000702@ss.org> Message-ID: On 05/29/2013 10:01 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 05/28/2013 10:27 PM, John Moniz wrote: >> On 05/28/2013 09:24 PM, James Knott wrote: >>> John Moniz wrote: >>>> It is the same address as for the router. >>> >>> That's something that shouldn't happen. Did you by any chance set the >>> router MAC to the same as the computer? DHCP servers assign an IP >>> address to a MAC address and has no idea what device it actually is. >>> Next question is how Bell's DHCP server managed to see the computer, >>> when it's behind a NAT firewall. >> >> I haven't changed the router MAC, but can't locate it with the browser >> to prove it. The MAC stencilled on the unit is certainly different than >> the PC MAC. >> >> The eth0 IP address on the PC is the same as the router, definitely >> ignoring the DHCP range specified. >> >> John. > > Do you have any DMZ functionality enabled? > Right on Scott! The router shows a DMZ device status for the PC in question. Not only that, it has firewall disabled. I'm pretty sure that isn't the way I set it up. That doesn't look comforting. Now I have to figure out how to change it. Then my dlna might work. Thanks again. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 17:14:40 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 13:14:40 -0400 Subject: BeagleBone Black -- specs In-Reply-To: <20130528090827.GA17771-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130528090827.GA17771@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130529171440.GA3964@node1.localdomain> More first look... 10. It's interesting that BeagleBone Black and DD-WRT router (TP-Link TL-WDR4300) are complimentary. BeagleBone does rsync/ssh but not ftp or samba; on the other hand, DD-WRT does ftp and samba but not rsync. 11. For some reason, BeagleBone doesn't export microSD as USB device. It only exports the first partition (/dev/mmcblk0p1) of internal eMMC, and you see it as /dev/sdX. -- William On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 05:08:27AM -0400, William Park wrote: > I got my BeagleBone Black today, and here are few specs. > > 1. reading throughput: > - nc laptop 9999 < /dev/zero # 11 MB/s > - ssh beaglebone cat /etc/zero > /dev/null # 9 MB/s > - scp beaglebone:some.iso /tmp/ # 8 MB/s > - rsync beaglebone:some.iso /tmp/ # 7 MB/s > > 2. writing throughput: > - scp some.iso beaglebone: # 2 MB/s > - rsync some.iso beaglebone: # 2 MB/s > > 3. cat /proc/partitions > major minor #blocks name > 179 0 1875968 mmcblk0 > 179 1 72261 mmcblk0p1 > 179 2 1799280 mmcblk0p2 > 179 16 1024 mmcblk0boot1 > 179 8 1024 mmcblk0boot0 > > 4. fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0 > Disk /dev/mmcblk0: 1920 MB, 1920991232 bytes > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 233 cylinders, total 3751936 sectors > Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes > Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > Disk identifier: 0x00000000 > Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System > /dev/mmcblk0p1 * 63 144584 72261 c W95 FAT32 (LBA) > /dev/mmcblk0p2 144585 3743144 1799280 83 Linux > > 5. hdparm -tT /dev/mmcblk0 > Timing cached reads: 196 MB in 2.01 seconds = 97.48 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 54 MB in 3.04 seconds = 17.74 MB/sec > > 6. cat /proc/cpuinfo > processor : 0 > model name : ARMv7 Processor rev 2 (v7l) > BogoMIPS : 990.68 > Features : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp thumbee neon vfpv3 tls > CPU implementer : 0x41 > CPU architecture: 7 > CPU variant : 0x3 > CPU part : 0xc08 > CPU revision : 2 > Hardware : Generic AM33XX (Flattened Device Tree) > Revision : 0000 > Serial : 0000000000000000 > > 7. df > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > rootfs 1738184 1283748 364472 78% / > /dev/root 1738184 1283748 364472 78% / > devtmpfs 255336 0 255336 0% /dev > tmpfs 255436 4 255432 1% /dev/shm > tmpfs 255436 224 255212 1% /run > tmpfs 255436 0 255436 0% /sys/fs/cgroup > tmpfs 255436 4 255432 1% /tmp > /dev/mmcblk0p1 71133 55238 15896 78% /media/BEAGLEBONE_ > > 8. free > total used free shared buffers cached > Mem: 510872 340396 170476 0 8152 239916 > -/+ buffers/cache: 92328 418544 > Swap: 0 0 0 > > 9. uname -a > Linux beaglebone 3.8.11 #1 SMP Wed May 8 07:34:27 CEST 2013 armv7l GNU/Linux > -- > William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 17:26:04 2013 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy-public) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 13:26:04 -0400 Subject: RedHat Day Message-ID: <51A63A2C.8010203@gmail.com> No, not that RedHat. Womens social or not, I am going to have to steal a Red Fedora! http://redhatsociety.com/events/hoot http://redhatsociety.com/events/photos/hoot-2012 http://redhatsociety.com/about/testimonials http://redhatsociety.com/about/legacy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 18:10:07 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 15:10:07 -0300 Subject: RedHat Day In-Reply-To: <51A63A2C.8010203-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A63A2C.8010203@gmail.com> Message-ID: I subscribe to a Linux on Mainframe list too, and a guy there told us he was at the airport flying somewhere and overheard an old lady telling another lady about a big conference, Red Hats and Fedoras... He got interested, as it's very rare to see a old woman talking passionately about Linux, and went to talk to the woman. That was not a long conversation, because as soon as we mentioned kernel, bash and networking he understood that she was talking about something else... So she handed him a flyer to the Red Hat Society or something like that... The troubles of misused terminology... Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2013/5/29 teddy-public > > No, not that RedHat. > > Womens social or not, I am going to have to steal a Red Fedora! > > http://redhatsociety.com/**events/hoot > http://redhatsociety.com/**events/photos/hoot-2012 > http://redhatsociety.com/**about/testimonials > http://redhatsociety.com/**about/legacy > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 18:30:37 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 14:30:37 -0400 Subject: Life is a Pi-way, I wanna ride it all night long Message-ID: Thanks to all who contributed to the discussion on what was the best way in Toronto to get a Raspberry Pi. I can add one more data point that has not yet been mentioned: The Seneca College Bookstore. I was just about to head down to Creatron when -- just for the heck of it -- I poked my head into the open source research office at the Seneca College corner of the York U campus, on my way walking to work. They mentioned the bookstore which, sure enough, can get it. The details: - Price: $40 + tax (they only sell the model B) - It's a special order, requiring a 50% deposit I put down a deposit on three yesterday; let's see how long it takes. The estimate given is two to three weeks, which is forever if you need stuff ASAP but quite reasonable compared to buying from eBay, Monoprice, etc. (I have no idea whether bookstores in other Seneca campuses can also get it; this one is where all the FSOSS action happens.) -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 19:38:07 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 15:38:07 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3371_1369757318_r4SG8cih005189_51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> <51A4ECCD.3010708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <51A6591F.1080406@sobac.com> Thomas writes: > The response of the top/HTML posters [...] are not arguments in favour of using either > methods on _this mailing list_. I don't recall that there is a published standard for posting to _this mailing list_. There are rules in the footer (which is hidden in most MIME messages) which instructs us to use no HTML and to wrap our lines at 80, and it has a link to the subscription web page http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists which also has no instructions on top- bottom- or middle-posting. So it seems that the mailing list administrators expect us to use our best judgement in that regard, without imposing a set style on us. BTW, the best reason for top-posting that I've seen was given by a friend who uses text-to-speech software to listen to his e-mail. He said: > Those of us who read e-mail with speech want to get to the new information, > with as little time as possible waisted listening to quotes which we have > already heard several times. > > A fall back strategy is to dump the speech buffer, go to the end of the post, > and search back for the last > and listen from there. > It is easy to dump the speech buffer when the quotes are last, but not possible > to scroll to the beginning of the new comments when they are last. His signature block? > If you quote me, please put your comments first. > I have already listened to mine. So, in the interests of accessibility I've been top-posting ever since. Sometimes I'll include a brief snippet at the top for context (as I did here), and I also leave the entire quoted text intact below my reply so that anyone seeing this message in isolation from the thread can still follow along. But most people have been following the thread all along, and don't need to see the whole thing again at the beginning. --Bob. On 13-05-29 09:44 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> On 28/05/13 12:08 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: >>> It is with the professional set. You can send and receive it on Outlook, >>> Blackberry, iPhone, OS X Mail (if you're a ?creative?) or Android (if >>> you're an engineer). That's 999? of the business ecosystem. >> >> This list is distinctly *not* driven by the business ecosystem, or the >> legal, or the xyz system. It is a technical mailing list for Linux based >> discussions, for and by people who ought to know enough to adhere to a >> common standard of discourse. After all that's what computers and >> operating systems are, standardized computational tools, from CPU >> architectures, memory allocation best practices, up to UTF8 email >> messages and beyond. >> >> HTML email, and top-posting on this list are terrible scourges, that >> should be dealt with in a most severe manner the likes of which Lennart >> has only hinted at in passing. >> >> /dev/null is too warm and inviting a place for such emails :p >> >> Why such a strident opinion you might ask? Simply put, HTML email and >> not taking a moment to reply in-line or bottom post encourages laziness. >> Most insidious is that the default message composition format and >> behaviour in many clients encourages this laziness. >> >> Granted, like any tool, email can (and should be!) be used by anyone in >> any manner that they see fit. However, within the context of this list, >> one should use the tool in a manner that reflects an understanding of >> the context within which a detail oriented discussion is taking place, >> and the intended audience of said discussion. >> >> To draw upon McLuhan: if the medium is the message (HTML being the >> medium for the contents of an email), then the message as I see it on a >> regular basis consists of mostly badly formed syntactic messes of >> irrelevant divs, fonts and formatting, the sheer bulk of which largely >> outweigh the actual meaningful content of said message. Signatures are >> infinitely worse for the value that they impart to a discussion and they >> deserve their own special place in email hell. >> >> Given the subject of this list is highly technical at times, it makes >> sense to be clear and technical with one's formatting, language, and in >> using meaningful structures to organize one's ideas. This approach is >> useful in that it maintains some semblance of logical coherence across >> multiple highly technical posts (at times), and also maps nicely onto >> threaded email clients that reflect said structure on a macro-level. >> >> I'll be the first to admit that I never live up to that standard of >> communication on this list, or any other. But it doesn't mean that I >> ought to be lazy and not try. >> >>> Don't forget Postel's Law, as enshrined in RFC1122: ?Be liberal in what >>> you accept, and conservative in what you send?. >> >> A key tenant of all good writing is knowing one's audience. Postel's Law >> makes for a useful comparison that maps nicely to this discussion: >> >> Admitting the premise that we ought to be liberal in what we choose to >> accept, say on this list a free flowing exchange of ideas between >> interested parties; it follows that in participating in said exchange we >> ought to be conservative in the manner in which we choose to express our >> thoughts, for the aforementioned reasons of maintaining technical >> clarity, logical coherence, and consideration of others. >> >> > I think you mean 'tenet', but otherwise I 100% agree. > > This is sarcasm --> Yes, when I read the list in GMail, I have to click > 'Reply', and then I have to click to unhide the quoted text, and then I > have to scroll down to where I can bottom post. Same when I'm using my > phone, and then it's twice as difficult. > > Oh, the humanity. The woe is beyond my ability to bear it. <-- Sarcasm > > Seriously, that is pretty much the other side of it isn't it? Really, what > it comes down to is some people are saying, very politely "Please, if you > are using this list here is a set of rules that have always made it more > pleasant for _everyone_ to participate." > > The response of the top/HTML posters: "I don't feel like it.", and "this is > the way big shot lawyers do it" are not arguments in favour of using either > methods on _this mailing list_. The immaturity is really unbecoming of > supposedly educated people. It's like those American tourists who go to > another country and get upset when they don't speak 'Merican. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed May 29 22:37:04 2013 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 18:37:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A5DB48.4070102-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A5DB48.4070102@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 May 2013, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: ... > Personally I think conversations should be online, so that they can > be revisited at any time in the future. Personally I think conversations should be on my computer, so that they can be revisited at any time in the future, not just when I am online. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 30 01:29:39 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 21:29:39 -0400 Subject: unwelcome mouse pointer wrap around: Ubuntu 13.04 Message-ID: <51A6AB83.4010903@gmail.com> I tried enabling the nvidia driver on my Ubuntu 13.04 Samsung laptop. That was a very, very bad idea. I pretty much had to purge and reinstall everything that had to do with X, gnome and Unity. One feature remained from my stray away from nouveau land: the mouse pointer now wraps from the right side to the left side of the screen. There was no explicit option to set this, and there seems to be no way of unsetting it in any of the (Unity|gnome|compiz|system) configuration options. Has anyone successfully managed to tame this issue? I can see that some people might like this feature, but not me. thanks Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 30 02:41:32 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 22:41:32 -0400 Subject: Life is a Pi-way, I wanna ride it all night long In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51A6BC5C.7040909@ve3syb.ca> On 13-05-29 02:30 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Thanks to all who contributed to the discussion on what was the best way in > Toronto to get a Raspberry Pi. > > I can add one more data point that has not yet been mentioned: The Seneca > College Bookstore. You missed my earlier message. :) The Pi given to me at Christmas came from the Seneca College Bookstore in the campus at Finch and Don Mills. If they are also available through the bookstore at York U. that implies they are available, or can be ordered, at all Seneca bookstores. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 30 02:50:03 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 22:50:03 -0400 Subject: Top posting In-Reply-To: <51A4ECCD.3010708-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <51A3BB7D.70007@alteeve.ca> <20130527202714.GD11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51A4000A.2020203@gmail.com> <20130528143758.GG11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3371_1369757318_r4SG8cih005189_51A4D66F.90604@gmail.com> <51A4ECCD.3010708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <51A6BE5B.5070903@ve3syb.ca> On 13-05-28 01:43 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > To draw upon McLuhan: if the medium is the message (HTML being the > medium for the contents of an email), then the message as I see it on a > regular basis consists of mostly badly formed syntactic messes of > irrelevant divs, fonts and formatting, the sheer bulk of which largely > outweigh the actual meaningful content of said message. I feel that way about XML formatting outweighing the data it encloses vs. standard text files, but that would be a discussion for another thread. > Signatures are infinitely worse for the value that they impart to a > discussion and they deserve their own special place in email hell. I don't mind signatures. They are easy to ignore as they are (supposed to be) at the bottom of the message. I often read email messages without ever taking any note of what signature block may have existed at the bottom. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 30 03:07:21 2013 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 23:07:21 -0400 Subject: unwelcome mouse pointer wrap around: Ubuntu 13.04 In-Reply-To: <51A6AB83.4010903-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A6AB83.4010903@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I tried enabling the nvidia driver on my Ubuntu 13.04 Samsung laptop. > That was a very, very bad idea. I pretty much had to purge and reinstall > everything that had to do with X, gnome and Unity. > > One feature remained from my stray away from nouveau land: the > mouse pointer now wraps from the right side to the left side of the > screen. There was no explicit option to set this, and there seems to be > no way of unsetting it in any of the (Unity|gnome|compiz|system) > configuration options. > > Has anyone successfully managed to tame this issue? I can see that some > people might like this feature, but not me. > If you click on System Settings, then choose Display, you can then drag the monitors detected around to sit in the order you wish. Cheers, Randy > > thanks > Stewart > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 30 05:06:07 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 01:06:07 -0400 Subject: unwelcome mouse pointer wrap around: Ubuntu 13.04 In-Reply-To: <51A6AB83.4010903-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A6AB83.4010903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51A6DE3F.8030907@sobac.com> The CompizConfigSettingsManager has an option for wrapping the mouse around the screen, under "Desktop Wall | Viewport Switcher | Allow Wrap-Around". Although I have CCSM installed, I'm not running a Compiz enabled desktop environment, so I can't test it. The CompizConfigSettingsManager is in the package compizconfig-settings-manager Of course, there's probably a text file that can be edited to accomplish this too... --Bob. On 13-05-29 09:29 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I tried enabling the nvidia driver on my Ubuntu 13.04 Samsung laptop. > That was a very, very bad idea. I pretty much had to purge and reinstall > everything that had to do with X, gnome and Unity. > > One feature remained from my stray away from nouveau land: the > mouse pointer now wraps from the right side to the left side of the > screen. There was no explicit option to set this, and there seems to be > no way of unsetting it in any of the (Unity|gnome|compiz|system) > configuration options. > > Has anyone successfully managed to tame this issue? I can see that some > people might like this feature, but not me. > > thanks > Stewart > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 30 11:27:05 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 07:27:05 -0400 Subject: unwelcome mouse pointer wrap around: Ubuntu 13.04 In-Reply-To: References: <51A6AB83.4010903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51A73789.9050501@gmail.com> On 13-05-29 11:07 PM, Randy Jonasz wrote: > > If you click on System Settings, then choose Display, you can then drag > the monitors detected around to sit in the order you wish. Thanks, Randy, but I've only got the one laptop display. On 13-05-30 01:06 AM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > > The CompizConfigSettingsManager has an option for wrapping the mouse > around the screen, under "Desktop Wall | Viewport Switcher | Allow > Wrap-Around". Although I have CCSM installed, I'm not running a > Compiz enabled desktop environment, so I can't test it. It was unset all along, Bob. I even tried setting it, logging out, unsetting it, logging out again, but it was still there. The mouse viewport seems to be slightly wider than the 1600?900 display, so when the pointer wraps around there's a small deadband before it comes back to the other side of the screen. Thanks for the answers. It's still got me stumped. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 30 14:15:07 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 10:15:07 -0400 Subject: unwelcome mouse pointer wrap around: Ubuntu 13.04 In-Reply-To: <51A6AB83.4010903-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51A6AB83.4010903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130530141507.GK11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 09:29:39PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I tried enabling the nvidia driver on my Ubuntu 13.04 Samsung laptop. > That was a very, very bad idea. I pretty much had to purge and reinstall > everything that had to do with X, gnome and Unity. If you use the packages, that shouldn't have been needed. If you used the nvidia binary installer, well yes then you get the mess you asked for. > One feature remained from my stray away from nouveau land: the > mouse pointer now wraps from the right side to the left side of the > screen. There was no explicit option to set this, and there seems to be > no way of unsetting it in any of the (Unity|gnome|compiz|system) > configuration options. I have never seen that (certainly my machine with nouveau doesn't do that). > Has anyone successfully managed to tame this issue? I can see that some > people might like this feature, but not me. I can't even imagine how you would make it do that in the first place. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 30 11:08:13 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 07:08:13 -0400 Subject: (question) Electrical power bar In-Reply-To: <20130518221801.GA21091-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221801.GA21091@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 6:18 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi, > > Has anyone seen electrical power bar, where sockets are spaced out to > accommodate DC adapters and laid out horizontally? Sockets on most > power bars are too close and oriented vertically (like wall socket). > So, 1 DC adapter is taking up 3 sockets. > I got this awesome Belkin power bar where the sockets can actually rotate around, besides being mounted horizontal. It is phenomenal, it can accommodate a LOT of DC adapters :-) It also seems to be a lot cheaper than when I bought mine: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=12-107-148&IsVirtualParent=1 -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu May 30 15:34:29 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 11:34:29 -0400 Subject: (question) Electrical power bar In-Reply-To: References: <20130518221801.GA21091@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <51A77185.6040902@ss.org> On 05/30/2013 07:08 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I got this awesome Belkin power bar where the sockets can actually > rotate around, besides being mounted horizontal. It is phenomenal, it > can accommodate a LOT of DC adapters :-) > > It also seems to be a lot cheaper than when I bought mine: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=12-107-148&IsVirtualParent=1 I get auto redirected to the canadian site main page. Could you post a model number or belkin product page? -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From s at sadiqs.com Thu May 30 15:46:14 2013 From: s at sadiqs.com (Sadiq Saif) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 11:46:14 -0400 Subject: (question) Electrical power bar In-Reply-To: <51A77185.6040902-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20130518221801.GA21091@node1.localdomain> <51A77185.6040902@ss.org> Message-ID: <20130530154613.GA31952@uriel.asininetech.com> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:34:29AM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 05/30/2013 07:08 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > >I got this awesome Belkin power bar where the sockets can actually > >rotate around, besides being mounted horizontal. It is phenomenal, it > >can accommodate a LOT of DC adapters :-) > > > >It also seems to be a lot cheaper than when I bought mine: > > > >http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=12-107-148&IsVirtualParent=1 > > I get auto redirected to the canadian site main page. Could you post > a model number or belkin product page? > > -- > Scott Sullivan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Belkin page: http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-BP108200-06 Canada Computers: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=32_436&item_id=019671 -- Sadiq Saif -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 30 23:07:53 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 19:07:53 -0400 Subject: unwelcome mouse pointer wrap around: Ubuntu 13.04 In-Reply-To: <20130530141507.GK11184-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <51A6AB83.4010903@gmail.com> <20130530141507.GK11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51A7DBC9.10803@gmail.com> On 13-05-30 10:15 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > If you use the packages, that shouldn't have been needed I used the packages, but it left me with a 640?480 screen with no display manager. Thankfully, the Ctrl+Alt+T shortcut brought up a terminal. After removing all the nvidia packages, it still had no Unity, and was still at low resolution > I can't even imagine how you would make it do that in the first place. Me neither. Most odd. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 31 03:24:42 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 23:24:42 -0400 Subject: Noise reduction redux Message-ID: <20130531032442.GB26810@waltdnes.org> Earlier this month I asked about de-noising software. This goes off on a tangent, but is related, so here goes... * On bright sunny days, the JPEG image seems washed out, i.e. overexposed, and I have to back off approximately a full F-Stop when importing manually with the UFRAW plugin in GIMP, to get a decent image. * A few days ago I went and took some test shots on a sunny day at a local park, with various exposure compensations. At -1 F-Stop compensation, the JPEG images were finally OK, with the sky actually being blue rather that off-white. Plus the rest of the image was properly exposed. There are 3 ways of cutting down the amount of light sensed... 1) Faster shutter speed; let's avoid that option for now 2) Tighter aperture; but the Canon S100 only goes to F8 3) Lower ISO; which automatically reduces noise... tada -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 31 04:22:30 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 00:22:30 -0400 Subject: Noise reduction redux In-Reply-To: <20130531032442.GB26810-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130531032442.GB26810@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <51A82586.2090206@utoronto.ca> On 30/05/13 11:24 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Earlier this month I asked about de-noising software. This goes off > on a tangent, but is related, so here goes... > > * On bright sunny days, the JPEG image seems washed out, i.e. > overexposed, and I have to back off approximately a full F-Stop when > importing manually with the UFRAW plugin in GIMP, to get a decent > image. Using UFRaw on a jpeg is a little like taking an MP3, editing it and saving it at a different bitrate than the original as a lossless FLAC. You have the option with the S100 of shooting in raw - if you're after quality you absolutely must use that. Try shooting in RAW+jpg mode if that's available, then you have a really good way to see how bad in camera jpeg processing is. Also, have you checked the white balance settings in UFRaw? It uses DCRaw in the background and I think there's a profile for your S100 in that tool, so you might want to start with auto white balanace as a test to see if that washed out look goes away. But, I'll get to this, doing this on a jpeg is a lost cause, since the data is already permanently encoded into the image. Essentially this is just playing with the composite of all RGB levels, not controlling each individually like with a raw. General white balance tip: when in doubt, make it warmer (closer to zero), even with jpgs. > * A few days ago I went and took some test shots on a sunny day at a > local park, with various exposure compensations. At -1 F-Stop > compensation, the JPEG images were finally OK, with the sky actually > being blue rather that off-white. Plus the rest of the image was > properly exposed. You really can't get the best performance from your camera without shooting in raw. JPEG settings in cameras are all programmed at the factory to give too much sharpness and contrast in general (so that it looks punchy on an LCD screen on the camera). Each manufacturer will tweak their exposure settings too, some preferring to under expose (left histogram) for fear of the dreaded blown highlight and some preferring closer to overexposure (right histogram) to capture more data. > There are 3 ways of cutting down the amount of light sensed... > 1) Faster shutter speed; let's avoid that option for now > 2) Tighter aperture; but the Canon S100 only goes to F8 > 3) Lower ISO; which automatically reduces noise... tada Cutting down the amount of light is not exactly what you want to do. I can guarantee that if you do these two things your photos will turn out more consistently with no blown highlights (even with jpegs) and you'll have much cleaner looking images in darker areas: 1) Shoot in raw like I mentioned 2) Turn on the live histogram feature of your camera and learn to see what it sees. It is a graph of light values, brightest on the right, darkest on the left. About 18-20% gray is in the middle. You want to have a graph that is pushed to the right, without any peaks disappearing off the edge. Don't crowd your exposure all the way right, but get it over there until you're comfortable seeing an image and a scene like this. Use aperture, or shutter speed to change this. ISO can be used but you will affect the noise profile of the final image. The reason for shooting to the right as it is termed is that this area of the graph correlates to how camera sensors capture light. They are electrically better at capturing brighter levels than dark. As you move across the histogram to the left, you start to have darker areas of the image with spikes, but there is less light being captured, which leads to more background sensor noise in dark areas. Try it out. Shoot the same image in raw with the histogram all the way left, and then all the way right using shutter and aperture only to compensate. Then in UFRaw increase the darker image's exposure until it matches the brighter image and then compare the dark areas. The image shot to the left will have significantly more noise, that is not the result of ISO settings since you controlled for that. Now, back to raw versus jpg. If you keep your histogram to the right, without going over the edge, you can then edit with UFraw to properly to get correct exposure, increase sharpness & contrast, tweak white balance properly, and generally have the best possible quality of image *before* you take it into the Gimp and the land of lossy jpegs. The key is that you process the raw into a jpeg yourself and maintain quality and control through the process. Now I'm thinking that maybe I should do a TLUG talk about Linux and digital photography tools, workflows, and editing techniques... Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 31 06:00:26 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 02:00:26 -0400 Subject: Noise reduction redux In-Reply-To: <51A82586.2090206-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130531032442.GB26810@waltdnes.org> <51A82586.2090206@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20130531060026.GA27916@waltdnes.org> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 12:22:30AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote UFRAW doesn't import from JPEG. It imports from RAW. It's one of those things that "goes without saying", but I guess I should've said it anyways. I was comparing the UFRAW-imported image (from RAW) versus the JPEG. I use the JPEG+RAW option. The point I was trying to make was that the defaults *ON MY CAMERA* led to washed out JPEGS, and I also had to compensate -1 F-STOP when importing from RAW. After setting exposure compensation to -1 before shooting a) the JPEGs look a lot better b) I don't need to tweak the import from RAW anywhere near as much as before. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 31 07:04:49 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 03:04:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SSD trimming Message-ID: "trim" support is something added in recent years to support SSDs. Why: It helps the SSD more efficiently pretend to be a normal hard disk. How should we use it? There is a "discard" mount option (for ext4 or BTRFS). That seems to be overkill. Alternatively: run fstrim on each SSD filesystem once in a while (once a day). See I welcome a better resource (I didn't look hard). I wonder if there is some GUI setting to turn on a crontab entry to do fstrim. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 31 13:47:48 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 09:47:48 -0400 Subject: Munich completes move to linux Message-ID: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/LinuxTag-LiMux-firmly-established-in-Munich-1867920.html Dave Cramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 31 14:23:38 2013 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 07:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Munich completes move to linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1370010218.17500.YahooMailNeo@web140606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Subject: [TLUG]: Munich completes move to linux http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/LinuxTag-LiMux-firmly-established-in-Munich-1867920.html Dave Cramer ----------------- Does anybody think this might be possible here in Toronto? -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 31 14:33:55 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 10:33:55 -0400 Subject: Munich completes move to linux In-Reply-To: <1370010218.17500.YahooMailNeo-mhNdJOJujDavrfWm4H71L5EhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1370010218.17500.YahooMailNeo@web140606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Anything is possible, probable is another story all together. Given the current issues with Toronto's political scene; saving money by switching to Linux is probably not a priority. Dave Cramer On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:23 AM, DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: > Subject: [TLUG]: Munich completes move to linux > > > > > http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/LinuxTag-LiMux-firmly-established-in-Munich-1867920.html > > > Dave Cramer > ----------------- > Does anybody think this might be possible here in Toronto? > > -David > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 31 14:53:12 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 10:53:12 -0400 Subject: SSD trimming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130531145312.GL11184@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 03:04:49AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > "trim" support is something added in recent years to support SSDs. > > Why: It helps the SSD more efficiently pretend to be a normal hard disk. > > How should we use it? > > There is a "discard" mount option (for ext4 or BTRFS). That seems to be > overkill. > > Alternatively: run fstrim on each SSD filesystem once in a while (once a > day). > > See > > > I welcome a better resource (I didn't look hard). > > I wonder if there is some GUI setting to turn on a crontab entry to do > fstrim. Almost certainly not. Now distributions might start shipping with such a cron job by default once SSDs become common enough. After all running a cron job that simply goes'is this an SSD (with trim support) or not and then doing the job if it is seems reasonable. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 31 15:01:10 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 11:01:10 -0400 Subject: Munich completes move to linux In-Reply-To: References: <1370010218.17500.YahooMailNeo@web140606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > Anything is possible, probable is another story all together. Given the > current issues with Toronto's political scene; saving money by switching to > Linux is probably not a priority. > Let Mayor Ford know that there's a Microsoft Gravy Train, and see what happens! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 31 15:10:32 2013 From: andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Heagle) Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 11:10:32 -0400 Subject: Munich completes move to linux In-Reply-To: References: <1370010218.17500.YahooMailNeo@web140606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> Anything is possible, probable is another story all together. Given the >> current issues with Toronto's political scene; saving money by switching to >> Linux is probably not a priority. >> > > Let Mayor Ford know that there's a Microsoft Gravy Train, and see what > happens! > He might just think its an expansion pack for Microsoft Train Simulator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Train_Simulator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: