From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 2 14:23:33 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 09:23:33 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT CCNA Courses Message-ID: With the new year comes some new year's resolutions. In my case that includes some additional education, and in particular a wish to get a CCNA certification. From experience I know I seem to do best with the discipline imposed by a classroom. So, big question who locally offers the best CCNA course (ideally one that starts in the next 1-2 weeks)? Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 2 15:15:50 2013 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddymills-gmail) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 10:15:50 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT CCNA Courses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50E44F26.5060606@gmail.com> Groupon GTA has a CCENT/CCNA/CCNP bundle package for $99 http://www.groupon.com/deals/it-university-online-toronto http://www.ituniversityonline.com/complete-cisco-network-training-bundle-groupon/ On 1/2/2013 9:23 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > With the new year comes some new year's resolutions. In my case that > includes some additional education, and in particular a wish to get a > CCNA certification. From experience I know I seem to do best with the > discipline imposed by a classroom. So, big question who locally offers > the best CCNA course (ideally one that starts in the next 1-2 weeks)? > > Thanks. > > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 2 16:44:39 2013 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 11:44:39 -0500 Subject: Does The HP Envy 4-1050ca Support Intel Virtualization? In-Reply-To: <20121231005248.97670-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20121231005248.97670@gmx.com> Message-ID: <50E463F7.4040406@gmail.com> On 30/12/12 19:52 , Molly Tournquist wrote: > Buwahaha, you've been digging for information about shielded > hyperdrive capable TIE starfighter models, because Sienar Fleet > Systems has been uninformative due to pressure from Kuat Drive Yards > to not endanger their lucrative Star Destroyer business! > > Awesome! > > (well, the parrallels are a bit messy and distorted, TIE advanced's > to star destroyers would be like Atoms, or better yet ARMs to Xeons, > but, still, irresistable) You did notice that the HP person who responded had a Darth Vader avatar, ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 3 06:18:12 2013 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:18:12 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Coming To Android Smartphones Message-ID: <1357193892.16266.43.camel@jimslaptop> Not sure that this will ever be successful, or am I being to pessimistic. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20891868 Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 3 14:37:25 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 09:37:25 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Coming To Android Smartphones In-Reply-To: <1357193892.16266.43.camel@jimslaptop> References: <1357193892.16266.43.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: > Not sure that this will ever be successful, or am I being to > pessimistic. > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20891868 > Jim > Me too. Its kind of a very hard market to get into late. If Microsoft with multi billion marketing are going no where, I doubt this will work. That being said, its a good option to be there. More toys for geeks. It may actually successful in niche market and encourage experimentation. That would be good enough for me to consider it successful William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 3 15:42:06 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 10:42:06 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Coming To Android Smartphones In-Reply-To: <1357193892.16266.43.camel@jimslaptop> References: <1357193892.16266.43.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 1:18 AM, jim wrote: > > Not sure that this will ever be successful, or am I being to > pessimistic. > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20891868 The fact that there's no code available yet puts my expectations entirely low. There's a lot *wrong* with it... a) No code drop yet. If it were a *real* free software project, you drop code *before* doing pretty demos. b) Requires recompiling for each variation of CPU hardware that'll come. The non-need for that is one of the merits of Java... c) Yay, yet another language/API combination with zero intersection with existing mobile development usage. (Or perhaps Windows Mobile is using C++? I'm not sure...) Gotta reimplement Mozilla yet again. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 3 21:50:41 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:50:41 -0500 Subject: Job search? Message-ID: <20130103215041.GA9774@node1.opengeometry.net> For job searching, I'm aware of Monster.ca, Workopolis.ca, and Jobbank.gc.ca. Is there other sites or ways? I remember there was a thread here before, but can't find it. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 3 23:42:11 2013 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 18:42:11 -0500 Subject: Job search? In-Reply-To: <20130103215041.GA9774-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20130103215041.GA9774@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20130103234116.GF3216@helium> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:50:41PM -0500, William Park wrote: > For job searching, I'm aware of Monster.ca, Workopolis.ca, and > Jobbank.gc.ca. Is there other sites or ways? I remember there was a > thread here before, but can't find it. > -- > William There's: - http://jobs.startupnorth.ca/ - Caters to startups. - http://jobs.perl.org/ - Perl jobs (though mostly US) - https://twitter.com/pyjobo - Python jobs. Most of the jobs seem US/UK-only, but some are telecommute from anywhere. The best jobs seem to come from networking though. Normally by the time an opening hits Monster.ca (for example), it's gone through internal channels, and they still haven't found anyone. -- Brandon Sandrowicz -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 4 14:28:56 2013 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 06:28:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Job search? In-Reply-To: <20130103215041.GA9774-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20130103215041.GA9774@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1357309736.55936.YahooMailNeo@web120804.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> For Waterloo there's?waterlootechjobs.com . Also LinkedIn.com seems to be the new (better) Monster. ? --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Park > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 4:50:41 PM > Subject: [TLUG]: Job search? > > For job searching, I'm aware of Monster.ca, Workopolis.ca, and > Jobbank.gc.ca.? Is there other sites or ways?? I remember there was a > thread here before, but can't find it. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 4 14:42:32 2013 From: andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Heagle) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 09:42:32 -0500 Subject: Job search? In-Reply-To: <20130103215041.GA9774-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20130103215041.GA9774@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: http://indeed.com seems to be like the google of job searching sites. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paultarvydas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 4 15:48:55 2013 From: paultarvydas-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Tarvydas) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 10:48:55 -0500 Subject: Job search? In-Reply-To: <20130103215041.GA9774-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20130103215041.GA9774@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <50E6F9E7.3050800@gmail.com> http://toronto.kijiji.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 4 20:08:37 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 15:08:37 -0500 Subject: Job search? In-Reply-To: References: <20130103215041.GA9774@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <50E736C5.9010109@sobac.com> I like http://eluta.ca/ because I can make an Atom/RSS feed for a particular search, and new jobs are automatically listed in my feed reader. --Bob (who is also available for contract or full time work!) Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting On 13-01-04 09:42 AM, Andrew Heagle wrote: > http://indeed.com seems to be like the google of job searching sites. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 4 21:36:44 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 16:36:44 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Coming To Android Smartphones In-Reply-To: References: <1357193892.16266.43.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: <20130104213644.GC16813@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 10:42:06AM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote > b) Requires recompiling for each variation of CPU hardware that'll > come. Hmmmm, maybe it should've been Gentoo instead . > The non-need for that is one of the merits of Java... The non-need for Java is one of the merits of Gentoo . -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 4 22:16:11 2013 From: mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org (Molly Tournquist) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 17:16:11 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT CCNA Courses Message-ID: <20130104221612.97670@gmx.com> Well, on the new years' note, I have to chime in and make a resolution to try Colemak. Linux does have great Colemak support, a whole lot less hassle than weirder layouts. Seems far better than doing something follishly vainly productive like trying a somewhat experimental layout. They just had some mechanical keyboard on sale at NCIX for $30, $40 before a mail in rebate, but then I noticed it looks like the freakish thing suffers from linux incompatibility! A keyboard that needs special drivers for basic function, bizarre, It also had rubber WASD keys with no normal replacement caps. (And the only replacement keyboards I have are just ... nasty, I don't even want to think about where they've been. Maybe I'd rather not mess with the keys on those in the first place.) ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin McGregor Sent: 01/02/13 09:23 AM With the new year comes some new year's resolutions. In my case that includes some additional education, and in particular a wish to get a CCNA certification. From experience I know I seem to do best with the discipline imposed by a classroom. So, big question who locally offers the best CCNA course (ideally one that starts in the next 1-2 weeks)? Thanks. Colin McGregor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 5 21:19:49 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 16:19:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Colemak keyboard In-Reply-To: <20130104221612.97670-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20130104221612.97670@gmx.com> Message-ID: | From: Molly Tournquist | Well, on the new years' note, I have to chime in and make a resolution | to try Colemak. I've been interested in mechanical keys -- the story seems compelling. I've tried Cherry MX Brown keys in a store (not a fair test) and was not really impressed. I have seen mechanical keyboards with no engraved symbols. Would that do the job for you? I learned to type on a mechanical typewriter with no engraved keys. These people let you configure an expensive keyboard with Colemak layout: They do seem to emphasize WASD (or ESDF). There might well be lots of other sources -- I didn't look. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 5 22:23:09 2013 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 17:23:09 -0500 Subject: Colemak keyboard In-Reply-To: References: <20130104221612.97670@gmx.com> Message-ID: Cherry browns are good switches, but it's not as though the mech options end there. What didn't you like about them specifically? I have everything from buckling spring to topre and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. The only switches I personally can't stand are linear, like cherry blacks (bigger with the gaming crowd). -aaron On Jan 5, 2013 4:20 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > | From: Molly Tournquist > > | Well, on the new years' note, I have to chime in and make a resolution > | to try Colemak. > > I've been interested in mechanical keys -- the story seems compelling. > I've tried Cherry MX Brown keys in a store (not a fair test) and was > not really impressed. > > I have seen mechanical keyboards with no engraved symbols. Would that > do the job for you? I learned to type on a mechanical typewriter with > no engraved keys. > > These people let you configure an expensive keyboard with Colemak > layout: > < > http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/wasd-v1-semi-custom-mechanical-keyboard.html > > > They do seem to emphasize WASD (or ESDF). > > There might well be lots of other sources -- I didn't look. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 6 19:21:02 2013 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 14:21:02 -0500 Subject: CD Ripper box Message-ID: I have a number of CDs to rip to digital storage. It's painful to do one disc at a time. Anybody have a multi-CD ripper box to loan / rent? :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 6 19:25:47 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 14:25:47 -0500 Subject: CD Ripper box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50E9CFBB.10209@rogers.com> Richard Weait wrote: > I have a number of CDs to rip to digital storage. It's painful to do > one disc at a time. Anybody have a multi-CD ripper box to loan / > rent? :-) How is it painful, unless you sit around waiting for each one? I just start them up and go do something else. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 6 19:52:50 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 14:52:50 -0500 Subject: CD Ripper box In-Reply-To: <50E9CFBB.10209-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50E9CFBB.10209@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50E9D612.6020600@gmail.com> On 06-01-13 14:25 , James Knott wrote: > > How is it painful, unless you sit around waiting for each one? I just > start them up and go do something else. Depends on the size of the collection. I did around 1100 CDs in the summer of 2009. A Sempron box with two DVD drives, a Thinkpad with an internal drive and an external USB, each running ABCDE (a command-line wrapper to cdparanoia and lame) in two windows. It took about three weeks of evening and weekend time. I think I have a bunch of drives, if anyone has the case. It doesn't need to be much of a machine, as what takes far longer than ripping is verifying metadata and rip quality. Musicbrainz, freedb, and lots of little data check scripts will be your friend here ... cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 6 20:09:54 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 15:09:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: CD Ripper box In-Reply-To: <50E9D612.6020600-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50E9CFBB.10209@rogers.com> <50E9D612.6020600@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Stewart C. Russell | It doesn't | need to be much of a machine, as what takes far longer than ripping is | verifying metadata and rip quality. Musicbrainz, freedb, and lots of | little data check scripts will be your friend here ... What kind of data checking do you do? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 6 20:28:44 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 15:28:44 -0500 Subject: CD Ripper box In-Reply-To: References: <50E9CFBB.10209@rogers.com> <50E9D612.6020600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50E9DE7C.7090803@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | It doesn't > | need to be much of a machine, as what takes far longer than ripping is > | verifying metadata and rip quality. Musicbrainz, freedb, and lots of > | little data check scripts will be your friend here ... > > What kind of data checking do you do? One issue is some of the characters used in titles are not allowed in file names. For example, I have a couple with a "/". I've had to replace those with a "_". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 6 20:50:10 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 15:50:10 -0500 Subject: UPS specs/recommendations? Message-ID: <20130106205010.GA21848@waltdnes.org> It's been years since I last bought one, I've forgotten everything, plus there may be new technology available. My home setup... 90% plus of the time I'm running 1 "desktop" PC, a 24" LCD monitor, and an ADSL router-modem. Occasionally, I'll update / sync my backup PC so that I don't have to back to square 1 if/when my main PC fails. That means 2 PCs running. How high a "VA" rating do I need? The main things I want it to do are... * handle the 2 or 3 times a year there's a power-flicker or outage * software/hardware compatablilty so that if the power is out more than a few minutes, my PC can execute "/usr/sbin/hibernate" to gracefully avoid panic-shutdown-and-fsck and possible data loss. How does Staples rate as a place to buy? They seem to be the closest store with UPS's. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 6 20:53:09 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 15:53:09 -0500 Subject: UPS specs/recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20130106205010.GA21848-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130106205010.GA21848@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <50E9E435.4060106@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > They seem to be the closest store with UPS's. What about the UPS store? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 02:01:34 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 21:01:34 -0500 Subject: CD Ripper box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130107020133.GA1709@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jan 06, 2013 at 02:21:02PM -0500, Richard Weait wrote: > I have a number of CDs to rip to digital storage. It's painful to do one > disc at a time. Anybody have a multi-CD ripper box to loan / rent? :-) How about bunch of SATA/USB cd drives from recycle places? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 11:47:39 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 06:47:39 -0500 Subject: GPL question Message-ID: This might not be the right place to ask this but ... If a company makes and sells a device built on linux are they required to provide source code for their application ? Dave Cramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 12:03:42 2013 From: faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Syed Faisal Akber) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 12:03:42 +0000 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32317171-1357560223-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-559671687-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry> They have to supply the source to all GPL components like the Linux kernel and any userland libraries and utilities that are GPL. They do not have to provide source code to their applicAtion unless it is linked with a GPL component. This is why libraries come with the LGPL license. I hope this helps. Faisal Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone -----Original Message----- From: Dave Cramer Sender: owner-tlug at ss.org Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 06:47:39 To: Reply-To: tlug at ss.orgSubject: [TLUG]: GPL question This might not be the right place to ask this but ... If a company makes and sells a device built on linux are they required to provide source code for their application ? Dave Cramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 12:05:05 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 07:05:05 -0500 Subject: CD Ripper box In-Reply-To: References: <50E9CFBB.10209@rogers.com> <50E9D612.6020600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50EAB9F1.2070503@gmail.com> On 06-01-13 15:09 , D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > What kind of data checking do you do? The main one was to get around a kernel bug (which I hope is now fixed) that would knock the CD drive's SCSI/CD-DA emulation out of whack, and return a stream of zeroes instead of audio data. These produced suspiciously small MP3 files, so I have a small Perl script that reads the track duration, compares it to the file size, and flags anything that's iffy. Like James said, I also do strict filename checking, and this is derived from the CD track information. All names/titles get smashed to lower-case ASCII, and anything not in [A-Za-z0-9_] becomes an underscore. Can get messy, but is unique. I mostly listen through a SoundBridge and mt-daapd, so I seldom need to trawl through the filesystem. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 13:06:47 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 08:06:47 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50EAC867.7070901@rogers.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > This might not be the right place to ask this but ... > > If a company makes and sells a device built on linux are they required > to provide source code for their application ? > > Dave Cramer While I'm no expert, my understanding is if they use the device only internally no. If they sell it, yes. Perhaps you should ask on Groklaw. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 13:15:09 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 08:15:09 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: <32317171-1357560223-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-559671687--nTfUp9LyDnNB3jEAhgDvjWwcY1zWLNb1@public.gmane.org> References: <32317171-1357560223-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-559671687-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: Ya, That's what I came up with as well. Dave Dave Cramer On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 7:03 AM, Syed Faisal Akber wrote: > ** > They have to supply the source to all GPL components like the Linux kernel > and any userland libraries and utilities that are GPL. They do not have to > provide source code to their applicAtion unless it is linked with a GPL > component. This is why libraries come with the LGPL license. > > I hope this helps. > Faisal > Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone > ------------------------------ > *From: * Dave Cramer > *Sender: * owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > *Date: *Mon, 7 Jan 2013 06:47:39 -0500 > *To: * > *ReplyTo: * tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > *Subject: *[TLUG]: GPL question > > This might not be the right place to ask this but ... > > If a company makes and sells a device built on linux are they required to > provide source code for their application ? > > Dave Cramer > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 13:59:14 2013 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 08:59:14 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: <50EAC867.7070901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50EAC867.7070901@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 7 January 2013 08:06, James Knott wrote: > While I'm no expert, my understanding is if they use the device only > internally no. If they sell it, yes. And, I believe, they only have to provide GPL'ed source to people who buy, or otherwise legally use, the product (but there's nothing stopping the user from redistributing the source). -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 14:02:40 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 09:02:40 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: References: <50EAC867.7070901@rogers.com> Message-ID: There was one bit that said anyone possessing the object code ... not sure how that would fly. Either way I have my answer. Dave Dave Cramer On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 8:59 AM, Scott Allen wrote: > On 7 January 2013 08:06, James Knott wrote: > > While I'm no expert, my understanding is if they use the device only > > internally no. If they sell it, yes. > > And, I believe, they only have to provide GPL'ed source to people who > buy, or otherwise legally use, the product (but there's nothing > stopping the user from redistributing the source). > > -- > Scott > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 15:24:58 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 10:24:58 -0500 Subject: tracking what files are being accessed by a process? Message-ID: hey folks, I'm having a trouble with skype on my ubuntu 12.10 laptop -- it monopolizes the disk with very heavy reads, and my system grinds to a halt. I'd like to at least check to see what it's reading, before I give up and stop using it; is there a simple way to do this? thanks, Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 15:32:31 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 10:32:31 -0500 Subject: tracking what files are being accessed by a process? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130107153231.GA27603@watson-wilson.ca> Try lsof. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 15:41:33 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 10:41:33 -0500 Subject: tracking what files are being accessed by a process? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Matt Price wrote: > hey folks, > > I'm having a trouble with skype on my ubuntu 12.10 laptop -- it > monopolizes the disk with very heavy reads, and my system grinds to a > halt. > > I'd like to at least check to see what it's reading, before I give up > and stop using it; is there a simple way to do this? thanks, > Matt The usual tools used for this are lsof and fuser, which have somewhat different user interfaces for determining processes associated with files. fuser is in the package "psmisc" lsof is in the package "lsof" Alternatively, you can figure quite a bit out from what's found in /proc Here's the file listing for the instance of firefox that I have running: cbbrowne at cbbrowne /proc/30090/fd> ps auxww | grep firefox/firefox cbbrowne 30090 15.6 7.0 809344 278864 pts/1 SNl 10:32 1:12 /home/cbbrowne/firefox/firefox cbbrowne 30614 0.0 0.0 6304 604 pts/1 S+ 10:39 0:00 grep firefox/firefox cbbrowne at cbbrowne /proc/30090/fd> cd cbbrowne at cbbrowne ~> ps auxww | grep firefox/firefox cbbrowne 30090 15.4 7.0 809408 279064 pts/1 SNl 10:32 1:12 /home/cbbrowne/firefox/firefox cbbrowne 30632 0.0 0.0 6304 604 pts/1 S+ 10:39 0:00 grep firefox/firefox cbbrowne at cbbrowne ~> cd /proc/30090/fd cbbrowne at cbbrowne /proc/30090/fd> ls -l total 0 lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 0 -> /dev/pts/1 lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 1 -> /dev/pts/1 lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 10 -> socket:[1531164] lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 11 -> socket:[1531165] lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 12 -> pipe:[1531166] l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 13 -> pipe:[1531166] lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 14 -> pipe:[1531167] l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 15 -> pipe:[1531167] lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 16 -> pipe:[1531168] l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 17 -> pipe:[1531168] lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 18 -> pipe:[1531170] l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 19 -> pipe:[1531170] lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:38 2 -> /dev/pts/1 lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 20 -> /dev/urandom lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 21 -> socket:[1531172] lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 22 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/extensions.sqlite lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 23 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/extensions.sqlite-journal lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 24 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/cert8.db lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 25 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/key3.db lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 26 -> /var/tmp/etilqs_r87bGbR5JW7sitk (deleted) l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 27 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/ybookmarks-ziVeAjt3larYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 28 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/cookies.sqlite lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 29 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/cookies.sqlite-wal lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 3 -> pipe:[1532043] lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 30 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/cookies.sqlite-shm lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 31 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/cookies.sqlite lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 32 -> socket:[1531191] lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 33 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/permissions.sqlite lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 34 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/places.sqlite lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 35 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/places.sqlite-wal lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 36 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/places.sqlite-shm lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 37 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/webappsstore.sqlite lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 38 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/places.sqlite lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 39 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/places.sqlite-wal lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 4 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/addons.sqlite lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 40 -> socket:[1542023] lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:40 41 -> socket:[1543198] lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 42 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/ybookmarks.sqlite lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 43 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/downloads.sqlite lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 44 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/readItLater.sqlite lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 45 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/content-prefs.sqlite lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 47 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/Cache/_CACHE_MAP_ lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 48 -> socket:[1532317] lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 49 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/_CACHE_CLEAN_ lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 5 -> socket:[1531161] lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 50 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/Cache/_CACHE_001_ lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 51 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/Cache/_CACHE_002_ lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 52 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/Cache/_CACHE_003_ lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 53 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/signons.sqlite lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 54 -> socket:[1531454] lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 59 -> socket:[1538271] lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 6 -> pipe:[1531162] l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 7 -> pipe:[1531162] lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 73 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/addons.sqlite-journal l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 8 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/.parentlock lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 9 -> anon_inode:[eventpoll] lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 96 -> /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/formhistory.sqlite Do similar for skype, and you should get some more or less interesting information. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 17:19:31 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 12:19:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: HP Compaq 2710p notebook suffers too many head unloads (fwd) Message-ID: I submitted this message to linux-ide-u79uwXL29TaiAVqoAR/hOA at public.gmane.org Since there has been no response so far, I added my system to the table in I find it scary that Linux might well have eaten one of my disks. I admit that it might not be a fault of Linux, but it sure would be nice if something like palimpsest noticed and warned that the Load Cycle Count was rising in a scary way and sugested what could be done about it. I've added "hdparm -B 254 /dev/sda" to /etc/rc.d/rc.local on my CentOS 6.3 system. Anyone else experiencing this problem? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: D. Hugh Redelmeier To: linux-ide-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA at public.gmane.org Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 00:50:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: HP Compaq 2710p notebook suffers too many head unloads The head unloading problem is as described here: I am intending that this report contributes to that table. (Aside: many of the links in that table are broken.) My computer is an HP Compaq 2710p notebook/tablet. It has a Toshiba MK8009GAH 80GB 1.8inch 4200RPM Hard Drive. I recently replaced a similar one that failed, perhaps due to excessive head unloading. The replacement disk was used. When I got it: 5349 Power_On_Hours 49711 Load_Cycle_Count 9.29 cycles / hour Now: 5698 Power_On_Hours 87423 Load_Cycle_Count While I've had it (i.e. delta of above POH and LCC numbers): 349 Power_On_Hours 37712 Load_Cycle_Count 108.06 cycles / hour It sure looks like Linux is worse than whatever system used the disk before I got it. (For what it's worth, my failing disk reported 21252 Power_On_Hours and 526387 Load_Cycle_Count. This isn't really useful data since I don't know what OS was used with it before I purchased it last summer.) "hdparm -B 254 /dev/sda" stops the count running up. "hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda" does not. The OS I use on this system is x86-64 CentOS 6.3. I don't actually know why it is accessing the disk 108 times per hour when the machine is mostly idle. Here is a transcript of dmidecode and hdparm output. Note that Advanced power management level is reported as 254 because I set it that way. The default was 128. ==== start of transcript ==== [root at redhop hugh]# dmidecode # dmidecode 2.11 SMBIOS 2.4 present. 27 structures occupying 1291 bytes. Table at 0x000F2EAF. Handle 0x0000, DMI type 0, 24 bytes BIOS Information Vendor: Hewlett-Packard Version: 68MOU Ver. F.15 Release Date: 01/22/2010 Address: 0xE0000 Runtime Size: 128 kB ROM Size: 1024 kB Characteristics: PCI is supported PNP is supported BIOS is upgradeable BIOS shadowing is allowed Boot from CD is supported Selectable boot is supported EDD is supported 3.5"/720 kB floppy services are supported (int 13h) Print screen service is supported (int 5h) 8042 keyboard services are supported (int 9h) Serial services are supported (int 14h) Printer services are supported (int 17h) ACPI is supported USB legacy is supported LS-120 boot is supported Smart battery is supported BIOS boot specification is supported Function key-initiated network boot is supported Targeted content distribution is supported BIOS Revision: 15.21 Firmware Revision: 116.58 Handle 0x0001, DMI type 1, 27 bytes System Information Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard Product Name: HP Compaq 2710p Version: F.15 Serial Number: USH826020A UUID: 1065C9F5-8D46-DD11-0298-98B710202929 Wake-up Type: Power Switch SKU Number: 434566R-999 Family: 103C_5336AN Handle 0x0040, DMI type 126, 48 bytes Inactive Handle 0x0002, DMI type 2, 8 bytes Base Board Information Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard Product Name: 30C8 Version: KBC Version 74.3A Serial Number: Not Specified Handle 0x0003, DMI type 3, 13 bytes Chassis Information Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard Type: Notebook Lock: Not Present Version: Not Specified Serial Number: USH826020A Asset Tag: USH826020A Boot-up State: Safe Power Supply State: Safe Thermal State: Safe Security Status: External Interface Enabled Handle 0x0041, DMI type 126, 32 bytes Inactive Handle 0x0004, DMI type 4, 35 bytes Processor Information Socket Designation: U10 Type: Central Processor Family: Pentium M Manufacturer: Intel(R) ID: FD 06 00 00 FF FB EB BF Signature: Type 0, Family 6, Model 15, Stepping 13 Flags: FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip) VME (Virtual mode extension) DE (Debugging extension) PSE (Page size extension) TSC (Time stamp counter) MSR (Model specific registers) PAE (Physical address extension) MCE (Machine check exception) CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported) APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported) SEP (Fast system call) MTRR (Memory type range registers) PGE (Page global enable) MCA (Machine check architecture) CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported) PAT (Page attribute table) PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension) CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported) DS (Debug store) ACPI (ACPI supported) MMX (MMX technology supported) FXSR (FXSAVE and FXSTOR instructions supported) SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions) SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2) SS (Self-snoop) HTT (Multi-threading) TM (Thermal monitor supported) PBE (Pending break enabled) Version: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU U7500 @ 1.06GHz Voltage: 1.1 V External Clock: 133 MHz Max Speed: 1067 MHz Current Speed: 1067 MHz Status: Populated, Enabled Upgrade: None L1 Cache Handle: 0x0005 L2 Cache Handle: 0x0006 L3 Cache Handle: Not Provided Serial Number: Not Specified Asset Tag: Not Specified Part Number: Not Specified Handle 0x0005, DMI type 7, 19 bytes Cache Information Socket Designation: Internal L1 Cache Configuration: Enabled, Not Socketed, Level 1 Operational Mode: Write Back Location: Internal Installed Size: 64 kB Maximum Size: 64 kB Supported SRAM Types: Burst Installed SRAM Type: Burst Speed: Unknown Error Correction Type: Unknown System Type: Unified Associativity: 4-way Set-associative Handle 0x0006, DMI type 7, 19 bytes Cache Information Socket Designation: Internal L2 Cache Configuration: Enabled, Not Socketed, Level 2 Operational Mode: Write Back Location: External Installed Size: 2048 kB Maximum Size: 2048 kB Supported SRAM Types: Burst Installed SRAM Type: Burst Speed: Unknown Error Correction Type: None System Type: Unified Associativity: 4-way Set-associative Handle 0x0007, DMI type 9, 13 bytes System Slot Information Designation: PC CARD-Slot 0 Type: 32-bit PC Card (PCMCIA) Current Usage: Available Length: Short ID: Adapter 0, Socket 0 Characteristics: 5.0 V is provided 3.3 V is provided PC Card-16 is supported Cardbus is supported PME signal is supported Handle 0x0008, DMI type 10, 6 bytes On Board Device Information Type: Video Status: Enabled Description: 8 Handle 0x0009, DMI type 11, 5 bytes OEM Strings String 1: www.hp.com String 2: ABS 70/71 79 7A 7B 7C Handle 0x000A, DMI type 16, 15 bytes Physical Memory Array Location: System Board Or Motherboard Use: System Memory Error Correction Type: None Maximum Capacity: 4 GB Error Information Handle: No Error Number Of Devices: 2 Handle 0x000B, DMI type 17, 27 bytes Memory Device Array Handle: 0x000A Error Information Handle: No Error Total Width: 64 bits Data Width: 64 bits Size: 2048 MB Form Factor: SODIMM Set: None Locator: DIMM #1 Bank Locator: Not Specified Type: DDR2 Type Detail: Synchronous Speed: 667 MHz Manufacturer: Kingston Serial Number: 4B1E9789 Asset Tag: Not Specified Part Number: Handle 0x000C, DMI type 17, 27 bytes Memory Device Array Handle: 0x000A Error Information Handle: No Error Total Width: 64 bits Data Width: 64 bits Size: 2048 MB Form Factor: SODIMM Set: None Locator: DIMM #2 Bank Locator: Not Specified Type: DDR2 Type Detail: Synchronous Speed: 667 MHz Manufacturer: Nanya Technology Serial Number: C421170C Asset Tag: Not Specified Part Number: M2N2G64TU8HD6B-3C Handle 0x000D, DMI type 19, 15 bytes Memory Array Mapped Address Starting Address: 0x00000000000 Ending Address: 0x000FFFFFFFF Range Size: 4 GB Physical Array Handle: 0x000A Partition Width: 2 Handle 0x000E, DMI type 20, 19 bytes Memory Device Mapped Address Starting Address: 0x00000000000 Ending Address: 0x0007FFFFFFF Range Size: 2 GB Physical Device Handle: 0x000B Memory Array Mapped Address Handle: 0x000D Partition Row Position: 1 Handle 0x000F, DMI type 20, 19 bytes Memory Device Mapped Address Starting Address: 0x00080000000 Ending Address: 0x000FFFFFFFF Range Size: 2 GB Physical Device Handle: 0x000C Memory Array Mapped Address Handle: 0x000D Partition Row Position: 2 Handle 0x0010, DMI type 22, 26 bytes Portable Battery Location: Primary Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard Manufacture Date: 09/11/2007 Serial Number: 00307 Name: HP Chemistry: Lithium Ion Design Capacity: 40000 mWh Design Voltage: 11100 mV SBDS Version: Not Specified Maximum Error: Unknown OEM-specific Information: 0x00000000 Handle 0x0011, DMI type 126, 26 bytes Inactive Handle 0x0012, DMI type 32, 11 bytes System Boot Information Status: No errors detected Handle 0x0013, DMI type 126, 8 bytes Inactive Handle 0x0014, DMI type 126, 20 bytes Inactive Handle 0x0085, DMI type 133, 34 bytes OEM-specific Type Header and Data: 85 22 85 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 Strings: No battery Handle 0x0086, DMI type 134, 34 bytes OEM-specific Type Header and Data: 86 22 86 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 Strings: Handle 0x0015, DMI type 144, 26 bytes OEM-specific Type Header and Data: 90 1A 15 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 00 Handle 0x0016, DMI type 127, 4 bytes End Of Table [root at redhop hugh]# hdparm -I /dev/sda /dev/sda: ATA device, with non-removable media Model Number: TOSHIBA MK8009GAH Serial Number: X835WF9AW Firmware Revision: BS021C Standards: Supported: 7 6 5 4 Likely used: 7 Configuration: Logical max current cylinders 16383 16383 heads 16 16 sectors/track 63 63 -- CHS current addressable sectors: 16514064 LBA user addressable sectors: 156301488 Logical Sector size: 512 bytes Physical Sector size: 512 bytes device size with M = 1024*1024: 76319 MBytes device size with M = 1000*1000: 80026 MBytes (80 GB) cache/buffer size = unknown Capabilities: LBA, IORDY(can be disabled) Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, no device specific minimum R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16 Current = 16 Advanced power management level: 254 DMA: sdma0 sdma1 sdma2 mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5 Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 Cycle time: no flow control=240ns IORDY flow control=120ns Commands/features: Enabled Supported: * SMART feature set Security Mode feature set * Power Management feature set * Write cache * Look-ahead * WRITE_BUFFER command * READ_BUFFER command * NOP cmd * DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE * Advanced Power Management feature set * Device Configuration Overlay feature set * Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE * SMART error logging * SMART self-test * General Purpose Logging feature set * IDLE_IMMEDIATE with UNLOAD * WRITE_UNCORRECTABLE_EXT command Security: Master password revision code = 65534 supported not enabled not locked frozen not expired: security count not supported: enhanced erase 82min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. HW reset results: CBLID- above Vih Device num = 0 determined by the jumper Checksum: correct [root at redhop hugh]# exit ==== end of transcript ==== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 17:20:40 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 12:20:40 -0500 Subject: tracking what files are being accessed by a process? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Matt Price wrote: >> hey folks, >> >> I'm having a trouble with skype on my ubuntu 12.10 laptop -- it >> monopolizes the disk with very heavy reads, and my system grinds to a >> halt. >> >> I'd like to at least check to see what it's reading, before I give up >> and stop using it; is there a simple way to do this? thanks, >> Matt > > The usual tools used for this are lsof and fuser, which have somewhat > different user > interfaces for determining processes associated with files. > > fuser is in the package "psmisc" > > lsof is in the package "lsof" > > Alternatively, you can figure quite a bit out from what's found in /proc > > Here's the file listing for the instance of firefox that I have running: > > cbbrowne at cbbrowne /proc/30090/fd> ps auxww | grep firefox/firefox > cbbrowne 30090 15.6 7.0 809344 278864 pts/1 SNl 10:32 1:12 > /home/cbbrowne/firefox/firefox > cbbrowne 30614 0.0 0.0 6304 604 pts/1 S+ 10:39 0:00 grep > firefox/firefox > cbbrowne at cbbrowne /proc/30090/fd> cd > cbbrowne at cbbrowne ~> ps auxww | grep firefox/firefox > cbbrowne 30090 15.4 7.0 809408 279064 pts/1 SNl 10:32 1:12 > /home/cbbrowne/firefox/firefox > cbbrowne 30632 0.0 0.0 6304 604 pts/1 S+ 10:39 0:00 grep > firefox/firefox > cbbrowne at cbbrowne ~> cd /proc/30090/fd > cbbrowne at cbbrowne /proc/30090/fd> ls -l > total 0 > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 0 -> /dev/pts/1 > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 1 -> /dev/pts/1 > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 10 -> socket:[1531164] > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 11 -> socket:[1531165] > lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 12 -> pipe:[1531166] > l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 13 -> pipe:[1531166] > lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 14 -> pipe:[1531167] > l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 15 -> pipe:[1531167] > lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 16 -> pipe:[1531168] > l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 17 -> pipe:[1531168] > lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 18 -> pipe:[1531170] > l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 19 -> pipe:[1531170] > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:38 2 -> /dev/pts/1 > lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 20 -> /dev/urandom > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 21 -> socket:[1531172] > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 22 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/extensions.sqlite > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 23 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/extensions.sqlite-journal > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 24 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/cert8.db > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 25 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/key3.db > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 26 -> > /var/tmp/etilqs_r87bGbR5JW7sitk (deleted) > l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 27 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/ybookmarks-ziVeAjt3larYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 28 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/cookies.sqlite > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 29 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/cookies.sqlite-wal > lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 3 -> pipe:[1532043] > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 30 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/cookies.sqlite-shm > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 31 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/cookies.sqlite > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 32 -> socket:[1531191] > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 33 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/permissions.sqlite > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 34 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/places.sqlite > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 35 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/places.sqlite-wal > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 36 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/places.sqlite-shm > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 37 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/webappsstore.sqlite > lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 38 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/places.sqlite > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 39 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/places.sqlite-wal > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 4 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/addons.sqlite > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 40 -> socket:[1542023] > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:40 41 -> socket:[1543198] > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 42 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/ybookmarks.sqlite > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 43 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/downloads.sqlite > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 44 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/readItLater.sqlite > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 45 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/content-prefs.sqlite > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 47 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/Cache/_CACHE_MAP_ > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 48 -> socket:[1532317] > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 49 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/_CACHE_CLEAN_ > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 5 -> socket:[1531161] > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 50 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/Cache/_CACHE_001_ > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 51 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/Cache/_CACHE_002_ > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 52 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/Cache/_CACHE_003_ > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 53 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/signons.sqlite > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 54 -> socket:[1531454] > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 59 -> socket:[1538271] > lr-x------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 6 -> pipe:[1531162] > l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 7 -> pipe:[1531162] > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 73 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/addons.sqlite-journal > l-wx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 8 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/.parentlock > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 9 -> anon_inode:[eventpoll] > lrwx------ 1 cbbrowne cbbrowne 64 Jan 7 10:39 96 -> > /home/cbbrowne/.mozilla/firefox/cwjqkq94.default/formhistory.sqlite > > Do similar for skype, and you should get some more or less interesting > information. > -- huh, that does seem intresting. In particular, skype seems to be going through all the files in my .mozilla/firefox profile, espeially the zotero storage directory, which is rather large. hmm. I don't really like that at all! not sure though what I can do to stop it, or why it would ever happen in the first place! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 17:51:45 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 12:51:45 -0500 Subject: tracking what files are being accessed by a process? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Matt Price wrote: > On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Matt Price wrote: >>> hey folks, >>> >>> I'm having a trouble with skype on my ubuntu 12.10 laptop -- it >>> monopolizes the disk with very heavy reads, and my system grinds to a >>> halt. >>> >>> I'd like to at least check to see what it's reading, before I give up >>> and stop using it; is there a simple way to do this? thanks, >>> Matt >> >> The usual tools used for this are lsof and fuser, which have somewhat >> different user >> interfaces for determining processes associated with files. >> >> fuser is in the package "psmisc" >> >> lsof is in the package "lsof" >> >> Alternatively, you can figure quite a bit out from what's found in /proc >> >> Here's the file listing for the instance of firefox that I have running: >> >> cbbrowne at cbbrowne /proc/30090/fd> ps auxww | grep firefox/firefox >> cbbrowne 30090 15.6 7.0 809344 278864 pts/1 SNl 10:32 1:12 >> /home/cbbrowne/firefox/firefox >> cbbrowne 30614 0.0 0.0 6304 604 pts/1 S+ 10:39 0:00 grep >> firefox/firefox >> cbbrowne at cbbrowne /proc/30090/fd> cd >> cbbrowne at cbbrowne ~> ps auxww | grep firefox/firefox >> cbbrowne 30090 15.4 7.0 809408 279064 pts/1 SNl 10:32 1:12 >> /home/cbbrowne/firefox/firefox >> cbbrowne 30632 0.0 0.0 6304 604 pts/1 S+ 10:39 0:00 grep >> firefox/firefox >> cbbrowne at cbbrowne ~> cd /proc/30090/fd >> cbbrowne at cbbrowne /proc/30090/fd> ls -l >> Do similar for skype, and you should get some more or less interesting >> information. >> -- > > huh, that does seem intresting. In particular, skype seems to be > going through all the files in my .mozilla/firefox profile, espeially > the zotero storage directory, which is rather large. hmm. I don't > really like that at all! not sure though what I can do to stop it, > or why it would ever happen in the first place! just for the archive: I solved this using the apparmor profile pasted here: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=b1dicunW now skype startup is much faster and my system far more responsive when skype is up. and skype/microsoft are no longer tracking my internet usage, or whatever it was they were doing before. thanks guys! matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 18:34:52 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 13:34:52 -0500 Subject: tracking what files are being accessed by a process? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Matt Price wrote: > On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Matt Price wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: >>> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Matt Price wrote: >>>> hey folks, >>>> >>>> I'm having a trouble with skype on my ubuntu 12.10 laptop -- it >>>> monopolizes the disk with very heavy reads, and my system grinds to a >>>> halt. >>>> >>>> I'd like to at least check to see what it's reading, before I give up >>>> and stop using it; is there a simple way to do this? thanks, >>>> Matt >>> >>> The usual tools used for this are lsof and fuser, which have somewhat >>> different user >>> interfaces for determining processes associated with files. >>> >>> fuser is in the package "psmisc" >>> >>> lsof is in the package "lsof" >>> >>> Alternatively, you can figure quite a bit out from what's found in /proc >>> >>> Here's the file listing for the instance of firefox that I have running: >>> >>> cbbrowne at cbbrowne /proc/30090/fd> ps auxww | grep firefox/firefox >>> cbbrowne 30090 15.6 7.0 809344 278864 pts/1 SNl 10:32 1:12 >>> /home/cbbrowne/firefox/firefox >>> cbbrowne 30614 0.0 0.0 6304 604 pts/1 S+ 10:39 0:00 grep >>> firefox/firefox >>> cbbrowne at cbbrowne /proc/30090/fd> cd >>> cbbrowne at cbbrowne ~> ps auxww | grep firefox/firefox >>> cbbrowne 30090 15.4 7.0 809408 279064 pts/1 SNl 10:32 1:12 >>> /home/cbbrowne/firefox/firefox >>> cbbrowne 30632 0.0 0.0 6304 604 pts/1 S+ 10:39 0:00 grep >>> firefox/firefox >>> cbbrowne at cbbrowne ~> cd /proc/30090/fd >>> cbbrowne at cbbrowne /proc/30090/fd> ls -l > >>> Do similar for skype, and you should get some more or less interesting >>> information. >>> -- >> >> huh, that does seem intresting. In particular, skype seems to be >> going through all the files in my .mozilla/firefox profile, espeially >> the zotero storage directory, which is rather large. hmm. I don't >> really like that at all! not sure though what I can do to stop it, >> or why it would ever happen in the first place! > > just for the archive: I solved this using the apparmor profile pasted here: > http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=b1dicunW Interesting... So, AppArmor is something like FILDAE? (The TOPS-20 file access control daemon ) -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 19:08:03 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 14:08:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: spyware, the new normal [was Re: tracking what files are being accessed by a process?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Matt Price | > huh, that does seem intresting. In particular, skype seems to be | > going through all the files in my .mozilla/firefox profile, espeially | > the zotero storage directory, which is rather large. hmm. I don't | > really like that at all! not sure though what I can do to stop it, | > or why it would ever happen in the first place! | | just for the archive: I solved this using the apparmor profile pasted here: | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=b1dicunW | | now skype startup is much faster and my system far more responsive | when skype is up. and skype/microsoft are no longer tracking my | internet usage, or whatever it was they were doing before. I'm shocked and appalled. There is a convention on Linux, and to a lesser extent, all desktop OSes, that programs only do what you want them to. They don't spy on you and feed back information. If they do, they ask specific permission. The web doesn't work like that. It's almost a given that a website will try to squeeze as much out of you as possible. But generally we try to keep that circumscribed. General rule: what's on your device stays there; what's on the web goes anywhere. Smart phones have blown big holes in this. They are devices but act like web sites but have an enormously greater amount of what I would want to be private. Starting with tracking where I am physically and where I've been. Almost by default, "apps" spy on you. Bad news: apps are arriving on everyones desktop. Win8 is all about apps. Ubuntu's Unity Desktop search, by default, sends your queries to Canonical and thence to Amazon. Skype on Linux has just shown that it too is as evil as a web site but has more powers. Matt blocked a bunch of files deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/ r, deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/ r, deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/ r, deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/bookmarkbackups/ r, deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/chrome/ r, deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/extensions/ r, deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/prefs.js r, deny /etc/passwd r, (I think that I understand the first and last; why are the others not redundant?) Could you not turn it around and list what you are OK with having it access? Like: its own dotfiles and the dynamicaly linked libraries. Maybe we need a branding, like GPL or CC*, one that designates "only works on your behalf, not someone elses". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 20:43:31 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 15:43:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: spyware, the new normal [was Re: tracking what files are being accessed by a process?] In-Reply-To: <50EB3154.3080602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50EB3154.3080602@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: David Collier-Brown | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Cc: D. Hugh Redelmeier I still think that the list is censoring David. I only got this because it was addressed to me explicitly. When I looked in the list archives, the last post I saw from David was over two years old and from a different address. Who saw this message on the TLUG list? Who didn't? Please write me PRIVATELY and I will summarize to the list. | App armour starts with deny everything, so one might wish to allow one's | homedir, and only later realize that you need to give a particular | ill-advised program only a small sandbox to play in. OK. Sounds like a painful process. Like my browsing with many things disabled. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 22:04:47 2013 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 17:04:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: References: <50EAC867.7070901@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Jan 2013, Scott Allen wrote: > On 7 January 2013 08:06, James Knott wrote: >> While I'm no expert, my understanding is if they use the device only >> internally no. If they sell it, yes. > > And, I believe, they only have to provide GPL'ed source to people who > buy, or otherwise legally use, the product (but there's nothing > stopping the user from redistributing the source). If you distribute (give, sell, post on the WWW, etc.) the binary, modified or not, you must also make the source available. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 22:47:16 2013 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 17:47:16 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: References: <50EAC867.7070901@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2013, Scott Allen wrote: > >> On 7 January 2013 08:06, James Knott wrote: >>> >>> While I'm no expert, my understanding is if they use the device only >>> internally no. If they sell it, yes. >> >> >> And, I believe, they only have to provide GPL'ed source to people who >> buy, or otherwise legally use, the product (but there's nothing >> stopping the user from redistributing the source). > > > If you distribute (give, sell, post on the WWW, etc.) the binary, > modified or not, you must also make the source available. > Absolutely, even if it's embedded in hardware. E.g. Sony has some DVD players that include the GPL license in the user's manual and instructions on how to request the software. With GPL 2.x technically, you don't have to distribute the sources bundled with the binary. You just have to make a prominent notice (a README or LICENSE file would suffice) and make them available upon request, possibly charging a small fee for the cost of distribution. I.e. you don't have to make it available on-line. You can perfectly charge a small fee to burn and ship a CD with the source code and have the requestor pay the shipping and handling. With GPL 3.x, if using the Affero variant, then even if the software is used in a saas model over a network, enhancements to that software must be made available upon request from a user. Even though it was targeted for SaaS, I think GNU AGPLv3 also triggers strong copyleft even if the software is only used in-house but I am not entirely sure of this (who is the user in this case, the employees??). Best, -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 7 22:57:59 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 17:57:59 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: References: <50EAC867.7070901@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Alejandro Imass wrote: > On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson > wrote: > > On Mon, 7 Jan 2013, Scott Allen wrote: > > > >> On 7 January 2013 08:06, James Knott wrote: > >>> > >>> While I'm no expert, my understanding is if they use the device only > >>> internally no. If they sell it, yes. > >> > >> > >> And, I believe, they only have to provide GPL'ed source to people who > >> buy, or otherwise legally use, the product (but there's nothing > >> stopping the user from redistributing the source). > > > > > > If you distribute (give, sell, post on the WWW, etc.) the binary, > > modified or not, you must also make the source available. > > > > Absolutely, even if it's embedded in hardware. E.g. Sony has some DVD > players that include the GPL license in the user's manual and > instructions on how to request the software. > > With GPL 2.x technically, you don't have to distribute the sources > bundled with the binary. You just have to make a prominent notice (a > README or LICENSE file would suffice) and make them available upon > request, possibly charging a small fee for the cost of distribution. > I.e. you don't have to make it available on-line. You can perfectly > charge a small fee to burn and ship a CD with the source code and have > the requestor pay the shipping and handling. > > With GPL 3.x, if using the Affero variant, then even if the software > is used in a saas model over a network, enhancements to that software > must be made available upon request from a user. Even though it was > targeted for SaaS, I think GNU AGPLv3 also triggers strong copyleft > even if the software is only used in-house but I am not entirely sure > of this (who is the user in this case, the employees??). > > > When you say binary are we talking the proprietary code or just the GPL code ? Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 00:07:06 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 19:07:06 -0500 Subject: spyware, the new normal [was Re: tracking what files are being accessed by a process?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7 January 2013 14:08, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Matt Price > > | > huh, that does seem intresting. In particular, skype seems to be > | > going through all the files in my .mozilla/firefox profile, espeially > | > the zotero storage directory, which is rather large. hmm. I don't > | > really like that at all! not sure though what I can do to stop it, > | > or why it would ever happen in the first place! > | > | just for the archive: I solved this using the apparmor profile pasted here: > | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=b1dicunW > | > | now skype startup is much faster and my system far more responsive > | when skype is up. and skype/microsoft are no longer tracking my > | internet usage, or whatever it was they were doing before. > > I'm shocked and appalled. > > There is a convention on Linux, and to a lesser extent, all desktop > OSes, that programs only do what you want them to. They don't spy on > you and feed back information. If they do, they ask specific > permission. > > The web doesn't work like that. It's almost a given that a website > will try to squeeze as much out of you as possible. But generally we > try to keep that circumscribed. > > General rule: what's on your device stays there; what's on the web > goes anywhere. > > Smart phones have blown big holes in this. They are devices but act > like web sites but have an enormously greater amount of what I would > want to be private. Starting with tracking where I am physically and > where I've been. > > Almost by default, "apps" spy on you. > > Bad news: apps are arriving on everyones desktop. Win8 is all about > apps. Ubuntu's Unity Desktop search, by default, sends your queries > to Canonical and thence to Amazon. > > Skype on Linux has just shown that it too is as evil as a web site but > has more powers. > > Matt blocked a bunch of files > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/ r, > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/ r, > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/ r, > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/bookmarkbackups/ r, > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/chrome/ r, > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/extensions/ r, > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/prefs.js r, > deny /etc/passwd r, > (I think that I understand the first and last; why are the others not > redundant?) > > Could you not turn it around and list what you are OK with having it > access? Like: its own dotfiles and the dynamicaly linked libraries. > > Maybe we need a branding, like GPL or CC*, one that designates "only works > on your behalf, not someone elses". Hand in hand with all of this is the standard bypassing of Android's privacy controls. Android has a bunch of access controls (ie. "Can access GPS" or "Can modify all files on filesystem"), but the vast majority of app authors ask for every permission they could conceivably use in any future permutation of the software right from the start, and the vast majority of Android users either pay no attention at all (think End User License Agreements on Windows) or need the app badly enough that they install it anyway. Android's privacy controls weren't a bad idea, but it was kind of a poor implementation. We should be telling the app whether or not it can have that permission rather than it telling us. I think it would be reasonable for a map app to have to say "You haven't given me GPS permission so I can't tell you where you are," rather than the app saying "I can't install without this permission." It's becoming clear that most people really don't give a damn about their privacy. I suspect that in five to ten years they're going to discover just how much they regret totally giving away their privacy. "What do you mean there's a betting pool in Shenzhen on whether or not I recover from my oral cancer?! How did they even know that?!" After all, they already know all your other mitigating medical conditions, your drinking habits, your marital status ... By which time it'll be far too late to shut the barn door ... -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 02:54:45 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 21:54:45 -0500 Subject: spyware, the new normal [was Re: tracking what files are being accessed by a process?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 2:08 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Could you not turn it around and list what you are OK with having it > access? Like: its own dotfiles and the dynamicaly linked libraries. Perhaps this is something that could be integrated into Gonk. Gonk is the linux distro from Firefox OS (nee B2G): "The lower-level "operating system" of b2g. Gonk consists of a linux kernel and userspace hardware abstraction layer (HAL). The kernel and several userspace libraries are common open-source projects: linux, libusb, bluez, etc. Some other parts of the HAL are shared with the android project: GPS, camera, among others. You could say that Gonk is an extremely simple linux distribution..." > > Maybe we need a branding, like GPL or CC*, one that designates "only works > on your behalf, not someone elses". There are/were some efforts in this area: -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 05:55:57 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 00:55:57 -0500 Subject: spyware, the new normal [was Re: tracking what files are being accessed by a process?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 2:08 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Matt Price > > | > huh, that does seem intresting. In particular, skype seems to be > | > going through all the files in my .mozilla/firefox profile, espeially > | > the zotero storage directory, which is rather large. hmm. I don't > | > really like that at all! not sure though what I can do to stop it, > | > or why it would ever happen in the first place! > | > | just for the archive: I solved this using the apparmor profile pasted here: > | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=b1dicunW > | > | now skype startup is much faster and my system far more responsive > | when skype is up. and skype/microsoft are no longer tracking my > | internet usage, or whatever it was they were doing before. > > I'm shocked and appalled. > > There is a convention on Linux, and to a lesser extent, all desktop > OSes, that programs only do what you want them to. They don't spy on > you and feed back information. If they do, they ask specific > permission. > > The web doesn't work like that. It's almost a given that a website > will try to squeeze as much out of you as possible. But generally we > try to keep that circumscribed. > > General rule: what's on your device stays there; what's on the web > goes anywhere. > > Smart phones have blown big holes in this. They are devices but act > like web sites but have an enormously greater amount of what I would > want to be private. Starting with tracking where I am physically and > where I've been. > > Almost by default, "apps" spy on you. > > Bad news: apps are arriving on everyones desktop. Win8 is all about > apps. Ubuntu's Unity Desktop search, by default, sends your queries > to Canonical and thence to Amazon. > > Skype on Linux has just shown that it too is as evil as a web site but > has more powers. > > Matt blocked a bunch of files > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/ r, > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/ r, > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/ r, > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/bookmarkbackups/ r, > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/chrome/ r, > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/extensions/ r, > deny @{HOME}/.mozilla/*/*/prefs.js r, > deny /etc/passwd r, > (I think that I understand the first and last; why are the others not > redundant?) > I'm not sure myself; I think this maybe modifies an earlier file ,which allows access to a few spcifi files/directories within .mozilla (prefs.js in particular, which skype sometimes uses in order to access proxy information, IIUC). Interestingly, this is a known issue, and there are discussions about it e.g. on Arch Linux's wiki & ubuntu's skype LP page. But ubuntu, which uses apparmor by default, only distributes a fix (slightly different from the one I installed) in an optional package that is rarely installed (apparmor-profiles). And I only found out about it because I happen to have a huge .firefox directory (zotero stores pdfs there, which is actually kiind of a bad practice) which leads to a performane issue... It's all rather disturbing. m > Could you not turn it around and list what you are OK with having it > access? Like: its own dotfiles and the dynamicaly linked libraries. > > Maybe we need a branding, like GPL or CC*, one that designates "only works > on your behalf, not someone elses". > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 08:05:17 2013 From: mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org (Molly Tournquist) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 03:05:17 -0500 Subject: Colemak keyboard Message-ID: <20130108080518.240570@gmx.com> On Jan 5, 2013 4:20 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" < hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > wrote: I've been interested in mechanical keys -- the story seems compelling. I've tried Cherry MX Brown keys in a store (not a fair test) and was not really impressed. I have seen mechanical keyboards with no engraved symbols. Would that do the job for you? I learned to type on a mechanical typewriter with no engraved keys. These people let you configure an expensive keyboard with Colemak layout: They do seem to emphasize WASD (or ESDF). There might well be lots of other sources -- I didn't look. Not really, in fact, I'd even prefer keys with backlighting, especially red. I would definitly not go out of my way to get something like a das keyboard. though on the other hand an ergo kinesys would be a bit too much too. A "truly ergonomic" keyboard is tempting, but then again, so would be repurpossing a Japanese keyboard, what with the split up spacebar. And it kind of looks more impressive, sort of a bit revolutionary, if it's physically rearanged. But the "semi custom" ,,, product toolkit is a very interesting. While they emphasise WASD-differentiation, the gallery is full of all sorts of configurations. The color coding would certainly be purposefully dramatic with something like "Colemak extra wide". And they do have 105 key keyboards. so that is easily possible. ----- Original Message ----- From: Aaron Doucette Sent: 01/05/13 05:23 PM Cherry browns are good switches, but it's not as though the mech options end there. What didn't you like about them specifically? I have everything from buckling spring to topre and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. The only switches I personally can't stand are linear, like cherry blacks (bigger with the gaming crowd). -aaron Capacitive? But isn't that basically a regular dome switch, except more durable? The other very significant mechanical type that comes to mind is ALPS switches, though more on older keyboards. Oddly to me, I don't have any memory of anything comparring ALPS to cherry or buckling spring switches. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 13:30:16 2013 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 08:30:16 -0500 Subject: Colemak keyboard In-Reply-To: <20130108080518.240570-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20130108080518.240570@gmx.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 3:05 AM, Molly Tournquist wrote: > > Capacitive? But isn't that basically a regular dome switch, except more > durable? The other very significant mechanical type that comes to mind is > ALPS switches, though more on older keyboards. Oddly to me, I don't have > any memory of anything comparring ALPS to cherry or buckling spring > switches. Yes, but specifically the spring increases response of the keys and the characteristics basically doesn't change over the life of the keyboard, unlike a rubber dome. It's actually a real pleasure to type on, mine also has a variable layout, so the pinky keys require less force to actuate. There are several variations of ALPs switches. I have a Dell AT101W with black ALPS and it's OK, not as hard on the joints as a BS. They are quite a bit quieter than BS or Cherry blues too, considering they aren't "clicky" (though they have a relatively short travel and most people bottom out when they type anyway, so they don't make some noise). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 13:31:55 2013 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 08:31:55 -0500 Subject: Colemak keyboard In-Reply-To: References: <20130108080518.240570@gmx.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Aaron Doucette wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 3:05 AM, Molly Tournquist > wrote: > >> >> Capacitive? But isn't that basically a regular dome switch, except more >> durable? The other very significant mechanical type that comes to mind is >> ALPS switches, though more on older keyboards. Oddly to me, I don't have >> any memory of anything comparring ALPS to cherry or buckling spring >> switches. > > > Yes, but specifically the spring increases response of the keys and the > characteristics basically doesn't change over the life of the keyboard, > unlike a rubber dome. It's actually a real pleasure to type on, mine also > has a variable layout, so the pinky keys require less force to actuate. > > There are several variations of ALPs switches. I have a Dell AT101W with > black ALPS and it's OK, not as hard on the joints as a BS. They are quite a > bit quieter than BS or Cherry blues too, considering they aren't "clicky" > (though they have a relatively short travel and most people bottom out when > they type anyway, so they don't make some noise). > > > That should read, they DO make some noise, depending on how hard you mash your keys (note: this is bad for your fingers). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 15:16:57 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 10:16:57 -0500 Subject: Colemak keyboard In-Reply-To: <20130108080518.240570-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20130108080518.240570@gmx.com> Message-ID: On 8 January 2013 03:05, Molly Tournquist wrote: > On Jan 5, 2013 4:20 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: >> >> I've been interested in mechanical keys -- the story seems compelling. >> I've tried Cherry MX Brown keys in a store (not a fair test) and was >> not really impressed. >> >> I have seen mechanical keyboards with no engraved symbols. Would that >> do the job for you? I learned to type on a mechanical typewriter with >> no engraved keys. >> >> These people let you configure an expensive keyboard with Colemak >> layout: >> >> >> They do seem to emphasize WASD (or ESDF). >> >> There might well be lots of other sources -- I didn't look. > > > Not really, in fact, I'd even prefer keys with backlighting, especially red. > I would definitly not go out of my way to get something like a das keyboard. > though on the other hand an ergo kinesys would be a bit too much too. A > "truly ergonomic" keyboard is tempting, but then again, so would be > repurpossing a Japanese keyboard, what with the split up spacebar. And it > kind of looks more impressive, sort of a bit revolutionary, if it's > physically rearanged. > > But the "semi custom" ,,, product toolkit is a very interesting. While they > emphasise WASD-differentiation, the gallery is full of all sorts of > configurations. The color coding would certainly be purposefully dramatic > with something like "Colemak extra wide". And they do have 105 key > keyboards. so that is easily possible. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Aaron Doucette > > Sent: 01/05/13 05:23 PM > > > Cherry browns are good switches, but it's not as though the mech options end > there. What didn't you like about them specifically? I have everything from > buckling spring to topre and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. > The only switches I personally can't stand are linear, like cherry blacks > (bigger with the gaming crowd). > > -aaron > > > > Capacitive? But isn't that basically a regular dome switch, except more > durable? The other very significant mechanical type that comes to mind is > ALPS switches, though more on older keyboards. Oddly to me, I don't have any > memory of anything comparring ALPS to cherry or buckling spring switches. I bought a Coolermaster Quickfire about a year ago. It's a fairly standard keyboard but quite durable, without a numeric keypad, and with Cherry blue switches. Like Aaron I already own a dozen or so keyboards so I really didn't need it ... but the Quickfire is quite lovely and is now my second choice keyboard. (First choice is a Kinesis Advantage modded with Cherry blue switches - Kinesis's default is Cherry brown which I don't like as much, your soldering iron is your friend). The Cherry blues are about as close as you can get to the old IBM buckling springs without actually finding one of the very few buckling spring manufacturers still out there. You may not want that. But I did find you a red back-lit keyboard with mechanical switches: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129011 I've pointed you to the blue key model as that's my personal preference, but they seem to come in the other Cherry keyswitch colours. Most people aren't as obsessed as I am with keyboards and may find $120 a bit steep when a keyboard can be had for $5 at the dollar store ... your call. For anyone interested in turning a Kinesis "blue": http://www.gilesorr.com/misc/keyboards/kinesisblue.html -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 17:10:39 2013 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 12:10:39 -0500 Subject: GPL question In-Reply-To: References: <50EAC867.7070901@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Alejandro Imass wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson >> wrote: >> > On Mon, 7 Jan 2013, Scott Allen wrote: >> > >> >> On 7 January 2013 08:06, James Knott wrote: >> >>> [...] >> > If you distribute (give, sell, post on the WWW, etc.) the binary, >> > modified or not, you must also make the source available. >> > >> >> Absolutely, even if it's embedded in hardware. E.g. Sony has some DVD >> players that include the GPL license in the user's manual and >> instructions on how to request the software. >> >> With GPL 2.x technically, you don't have to distribute the sources >> bundled with the binary. You just have to make a prominent notice (a >> README or LICENSE file would suffice) and make them available upon >> request, possibly charging a small fee for the cost of distribution. >> I.e. you don't have to make it available on-line. You can perfectly >> charge a small fee to burn and ship a CD with the source code and have >> the requestor pay the shipping and handling. >> >> With GPL 3.x, if using the Affero variant, then even if the software >> is used in a saas model over a network, enhancements to that software >> must be made available upon request from a user. Even though it was >> targeted for SaaS, I think GNU AGPLv3 also triggers strong copyleft >> even if the software is only used in-house but I am not entirely sure >> of this (who is the user in this case, the employees??). >> >> > > When you say binary are we talking the proprietary code or just the GPL code > ? > > Dave > AFAIK it breaks down somewhat like this: 1) Proprietary code can link with GPL code only if the GPL code is LGPL. Even "intimate" relationship/use is considered "linking" so there is on-going debate as to what is considered "linking". In the Linux Kernel for example there has been long-going controversy as to how proprietary drivers could work with the Linux Kernel. Some clarifications from Torvalds and initiatives like the Linux Driver Project have dealt with these issues, actually "working around" the GPL and some still insist it's illegal under GPL terms. If I remember correctly, the issue was the actual linking of the drivers to the kernel and there is some technical discussion there 2) Binary code can be proprietary or not. If it links with GPL code or uses GPL code you must make all sources available of all GPL code that your program uses, and you must also make your code available unless everything you use or link with is not LGPL. That's why many companies choose BSD-style licensed code instead. With BSD there are fewer restrictions on making your stuff closed. 3) Binary code can be distributed without source code but you must always make the source available for anyone that uses your code. Again, that is in the case that your binary uses or links with ANY GPL code (not LGPL-only). For example the binary RPM packages are proprietary to RedHat in the sense that they consider their compilation and tweaks (their distro as such) to be a trade secret. Hence they will not disclose how they make it all fit together, but they are forced to release all the source rpm packages. That's how distributions like CentOS can basically clone RHE without making that illegal. In fact some people actually use illegal copies of RHE and use yum to install CentOS packages, I find that stupid (and probably illegal IMHO) and they should be using CentOS altogether instead. If you are planning to release commercial closed products that use Open Source in general you should consider hiring a lawyer to review every single piece of code you are using. In our company we were actually surprised at the level of expertise in Open Source licenses you can find in small and medium-level law firms in Canada and the US, it's actually quite common! Best, -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chislon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 20:29:06 2013 From: chislon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Chow, Chislon) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 15:29:06 -0500 Subject: Job search? In-Reply-To: <50E736C5.9010109-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20130103215041.GA9774@node1.opengeometry.net> <50E736C5.9010109@sobac.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the helpful suggestions. I've been job searching too and am finding a lot of tech jobs on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?displayHome= For a list of companies to look up, Crunchbase seems to be an interesting database searchable by location: http://www.crunchbase.com/search/advanced/companies BR, Chislon On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > I like http://eluta.ca/ because I can make an Atom/RSS feed for a > particular search, and new jobs are automatically listed in my feed reader. > > --Bob (who is also available for contract or full time work!) > > > Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ > SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 > 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 > Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting > > > On 13-01-04 09:42 AM, Andrew Heagle wrote: >> http://indeed.com seems to be like the google of job searching sites. >> > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 8 20:37:34 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 15:37:34 -0500 Subject: Job search? In-Reply-To: <20130103215041.GA9774-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20130103215041.GA9774@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 4:50 PM, William Park wrote: > For job searching, I'm aware of Monster.ca, Workopolis.ca, and > Jobbank.gc.ca. Is there other sites or ways? I remember there was a > thread here before, but can't find it. StackExchange also has a Careers site, but registration is by invitation only*. I've got 50+ invites so if anyone from the community wants one, feel free to visit * Some StackOverflow, Github & Codeplex users may qualify without an invitation: -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 02:06:09 2013 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 21:06:09 -0500 Subject: Virgin Gaming is looking for a Sr. Linux Administrator Message-ID: I'm still looking for fill a sr administrator role at Virgin Gaming if anyone's interested. Job Title: Senior Linux System Administrator Job Description: As a Sr. System Administrator you will be responsible for day to day management of the Virgin Gaming infrastructure (production, staging, QA, development and corporate IT). This includes Linux Servers (CentOS), Load Balancers, SAN/NAS, switches, routers and firewall gear. The software stack includes Linux, Apache, Tomcat, PostgreSQL and Xen. Duties and Responsibilities: ? Management of SANs, LUN and I/O performance tuning ? Knowledge of networking architectures and protocols and troubleshooting tools, ethereal, Wireshark, etc ? Network and system performance tuning ? Working with Amazon Web Services ? Running cables, racking/building servers, and troubleshooting hardware issues. ? Managing network devices including switches, routers, firewalls, VPNs, load balancers, etc ? Participate in the on-call rotation for after -hours incident resolution Job Requirements ? 5+ years of progressive experience in system administration in a distributed Unix/Linux environment ? Must have enterprise hands-on experience building, configuring and maintaining a high-availability enterprise Linux environment utilizing Apache, Tomcat, Postgres and Xen ? Has implemented CFengine, Puppet or Chef in a production environment ? Familiar with VMware/Xen virtulization ? Familiar with SVN, Nagios, Cacti, shell scripting, LDAP. We are open source friendly. ? Experience with clustering and performance tuning databases, preferably with PostgreSQL ? RHCE would be an asset ? A College diploma or University degree in computer science or engineering or relevant job experience ? Excellent written and oral communication skills. Location: King/Bathurst If anyone's interested, send your resume directly to me: ijaaz-sPs9hfDT68ZDlFalPvvQyA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 05:12:15 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 00:12:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: mail from DCB [was Re:spyware, the new normal [was Re: tracking what files are being accessed by a process?]] In-Reply-To: References: <50EB3154.3080602@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | | From: David Collier-Brown | | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | | Cc: D. Hugh Redelmeier | | I still think that the list is censoring David. I only got this | because it was addressed to me explicitly. | Who saw this message on the TLUG list? Who didn't? Please write me | PRIVATELY and I will summarize to the list. Ten people wrote me saying that they did not see his message. None saw it. Seems pretty clear. At Pho 88, I got DCB and Drew talking about the problem so I expect all will be well soon. I hope we get a report back about what the problem was. Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 15:31:54 2013 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:31:54 -0500 Subject: spyware, the new normal [was Re: tracking what files are being accessed by a process?] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 7:07 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > > Hand in hand with all of this is the standard bypassing of Android's > privacy controls. Android has a bunch of access controls (ie. "Can > access GPS" or "Can modify all files on filesystem"), but the vast > majority of app authors ask for every permission they could > conceivably use in any future permutation of the software right from > the start, and the vast majority of Android users either pay no > attention at all (think End User License Agreements on Windows) or > need the app badly enough that they install it anyway. Android's > privacy controls weren't a bad idea, but it was kind of a poor > implementation. We should be telling the app whether or not it can > have that permission rather than it telling us. I think it would be > reasonable for a map app to have to say "You haven't given me GPS > permission so I can't tell you where you are," rather than the app > saying "I can't install without this permission." > I was shocked when I got my first Android phone this year that its permission model is so much worse than Symbian's (especially since Symbian was a train wreck in every other way). Is there an alternate Android distribution that actually does some sensible permission management? I haven't wrapped my head around the Android ecosystem yet, but so far I've only come across defunct projects that used to do this. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 9 22:26:33 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 17:26:33 -0500 Subject: Colemak keyboard In-Reply-To: References: <20130108080518.240570@gmx.com> Message-ID: <20130109222633.GB30848@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Jan 08, 2013 at 10:16:57AM -0500, Giles Orr wrote > The Cherry blues are about as close as you can get to the old IBM > buckling springs without actually finding one of the very few buckling > spring manufacturers still out there. You may not want that. http://www.pckeyboard.com/ and more specifically http://pckeyboard.com/page/UltraClassic/UNI0P4A (with Windows keys) http://pckeyboard.com/page/Classic/UNI041A (without Windows keys) -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 10 16:43:10 2013 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (David Mason) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 11:43:10 -0500 Subject: HP Compaq 2710p notebook suffers too many head unloads (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, I sent this from the wrong email address, so it didn't make it to the list. I have 2 WD Caviar Green, on which I run RAID1, that I bought to be a matched pair. But they have surprisingly different values on a few SMART parameters. Turns out they're actually different models (which may not be a bad thing). sda doesn't have the problem that Hugh cites, but sdb appears too.... it looks like it's had over a million load cycles!! The https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Known_issues#Drives_which_perform_frequent_head_unloads_under_Linuxpage suggests that hdparm won't let you do a -B, and sure enough, I get: HDIO_DRIVE_CMD failed: Input/output error APM_level = not supported I don't have any windows machines to run the wdidle3.exe tool that the web page suggests. Any suggestions? Thanks ../Dave ---------- diff between my 2 drives ------------------ : ~ ; sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda >a;sudo smartctl -a /dev/sdb >b : ~ ; diff a b|less 5,9c5,9 < Model Family: Western Digital Caviar Green < Device Model: WDC WD10EADS-00L5B1 < Serial Number: WD-WCAU4D967763 < LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 2ae3e526b < Firmware Version: 01.01A01 --- > Model Family: Western Digital Caviar Green (Adv. Format) > Device Model: WDC WD10EARS-00Z5B1 > Serial Number: WD-WMAVU1357829 > LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 001df0c15 > Firmware Version: 80.00A80 30c30 < data collection: (23400) seconds. --- > data collection: (27480) seconds. 51,52c51 < SCT capabilities: (0x303f) SCT Status supported. < SCT Error Recovery Control supported. --- > SCT capabilities: (0x3031) SCT Status supported. 60,61c59,60 < 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 165 160 021 Pre-fail Always - 6741 < 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 104 --- > 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 181 179 021 Pre-fail Always - 5916 > 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 74 64,70c63,69 < 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 067 067 000 Old_age Always - 24502 < 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0 < 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0 < 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 102 < 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 11 < 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 104 < 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 114 103 000 Old_age Always - 36 --- > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 075 075 000 Old_age Always - 18713 > 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 253 000 Old_age Always - 0 > 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 253 000 Old_age Always - 0 > 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 72 > 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 17 > 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 001 001 000 Old_age Always - 1140809 > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 113 103 000 Old_age Always - 37 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 01:36:29 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:36:29 -0500 Subject: test -- ignore Message-ID: <20130111013629.GA3127@node1.opengeometry.net> Yahoo (SMART_HOST relay) is now rejecting my mail. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 01:38:58 2013 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:38:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: test -- ignore In-Reply-To: <20130111013629.GA3127-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20130111013629.GA3127@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1357868338.8542.YahooMailNeo@web140604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I see the message, William. -David ________________________________ From: William Park To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:36:29 PM Subject: [TLUG]: test -- ignore Yahoo (SMART_HOST relay) is now rejecting my mail. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 01:49:43 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:49:43 -0500 Subject: test -- ignore -- Yahoo relay changes In-Reply-To: <1357868338.8542.YahooMailNeo-mhNdJOJujDbK0anN2EpufZEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20130111013629.GA3127@node1.opengeometry.net> <1357868338.8542.YahooMailNeo@web140604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20130111014943.GA3387@node1.opengeometry.net> Ok, Yahoo must have fixed their DNS. Before, I had to suppress DNS resolution by using square bracket, ie. sendmail.cf: DS[smtp.mail.yahoo.ca] sendmail.mc: define(`SMART_HOST', `[smtp.mail.yahoo.ca]')dnl Now, I need to remove the square bracket. -- William On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 05:38:58PM -0800, DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: > I see the message, William. > -David > > ________________________________ > From: William Park > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 8:36:29 PM > Subject: [TLUG]: test -- ignore > > Yahoo (SMART_HOST relay) is now rejecting my mail. > -- > William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 07:01:54 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 02:01:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: HP Compaq 2710p notebook suffers too many head unloads (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: David Mason | I have 2 WD Caviar Green, on which I run RAID1 These drives are not suitable for RAID. The problem is that error recovery done by the firmware takes an unbounded time. RAID systems take that as a sign of the whole drive failing whereas what you actually want is the sector to fail and RAID deal with just the sector failing. If errors happen quickly enough, you don't have time to replace the dropped drive and rebuild the array before the next one. Once you've had n such failures (normally n = 2), you are screwed: RAID has run out of redundancy and has actually failed. WD has a feature to fix this problem: TLER is the name (Time-Limited Error Recovery). They only support it for expensive drives. Even though it is dirt cheap to provide. Welcome to price discrimination, a sure sign of a monopoly market (the 3rd and 4th largest drive manufacturers didn't limit this to expensive drives but they got bought by the 1st and 2nd). The best bet for RAID, AFAIK is the new WD "Red" drives. Kind of like Green but more expensive. |, that I bought to be a | matched pair. But they have surprisingly different values on a few SMART | parameters. Turns out they're actually different models (which may not be | a bad thing). They are quite different. For example EARS drives have (secretly) 4k sectors. Linux can handle 4K sectors, but only if the drive doesn't hide the fact. The main consequence is that you want to align partitions on (secret) sector boundaries or performance is really bad. Linux now handles this by having (some? most?) partitioning tools round starting points to something like 1M (I don't remember the the exact value). Older tools often did the opposite: the partition sizes were not a multiple of 4k bytes since they tried to align on cylinders and cylinders were notionally an odd number of 512-byte sectors: 255 tracks * 63 sectors/track which is congruent to 1 (mod 8). So only every eighth partition, starting with the first (I think) would be aligned. | sda doesn't have the problem that Hugh cites, but sdb appears too.... it | looks like it's had over a million load cycles!! Yikes! | The | https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Known_issues#Drives_which_perform_frequent_head_unloads_under_Linuxpage | suggests that hdparm won't let you do a -B, and sure enough, I get: | HDIO_DRIVE_CMD failed: Input/output error | APM_level = not supported I don't actually see your drive listed in that table. Perhaps you should add it (I added a row for my system). | I don't have any windows machines to run the wdidle3.exe tool that the web | page suggests. Any suggestions? Try phoning WD support. Is your drive in warranty? Try googling: there are some sites like hddguru that expose a lot of tricks and tips. (I once worked hard to recover from a Seagate firmware fiasco on many 7200.11 drives and found places like that useful.) Do report back! I think that I have some EARS drives on mythtv boxes. I had better check them. Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 18:40:07 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:40:07 -0500 Subject: HP Compaq 2710p notebook suffers too many head unloads (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130111184007.GH1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 02:01:54AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > These drives are not suitable for RAID. The problem is that error > recovery done by the firmware takes an unbounded time. RAID systems > take that as a sign of the whole drive failing whereas what you > actually want is the sector to fail and RAID deal with just the sector > failing. > > If errors happen quickly enough, you don't have time to replace the > dropped drive and rebuild the array before the next one. Once you've > had n such failures (normally n = 2), you are screwed: RAID has run > out of redundancy and has actually failed. > > WD has a feature to fix this problem: TLER is the name (Time-Limited > Error Recovery). They only support it for expensive drives. Even > though it is dirt cheap to provide. Welcome to price discrimination, > a sure sign of a monopoly market (the 3rd and 4th largest drive > manufacturers didn't limit this to expensive drives but they got > bought by the 1st and 2nd). > > The best bet for RAID, AFAIK is the new WD "Red" drives. Kind of like > Green but more expensive. Actually more like blue drives than green as far as I can tell. Also rated for 24/7 operation in addition to being raid controller compatible. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 18:48:59 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:48:59 -0500 Subject: UPS specs/recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20130106205010.GA21848-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130106205010.GA21848@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130111184859.GI1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 06, 2013 at 03:50:10PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > It's been years since I last bought one, I've forgotten everything, > plus there may be new technology available. My home setup... > 90% plus of the time I'm running 1 "desktop" PC, a 24" LCD monitor, and > an ADSL router-modem. Occasionally, I'll update / sync my backup PC so > that I don't have to back to square 1 if/when my main PC fails. That > means 2 PCs running. How high a "VA" rating do I need? The main things > I want it to do are... Well I think apc has a calculator on their webpage. Might help. > * handle the 2 or 3 times a year there's a power-flicker or outage > > * software/hardware compatablilty so that if the power is out more than > a few minutes, my PC can execute "/usr/sbin/hibernate" to gracefully > avoid panic-shutdown-and-fsck and possible data loss. Well I find apcupsd works great for my APC UPSs. That's the only brand I have. > How does Staples rate as a place to buy? They seem to be the closest > store with UPS's. Probably better pice and selection at canada computers or ncix. They have a lot of locations so one shouldn't be too far. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 18:55:15 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:55:15 -0500 Subject: Some Intel Chips Can Be Reconfigured to Support AES In-Reply-To: <50D69937.6040108-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50D69937.6040108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130111185515.GJ1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 12:40:07AM -0500, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > I was reading the fine print on one of Intel's Spec pages and I > found this little gem: > > Some products can support AES New Instructions with a Processor > Configuration update, in particular, i7-2630QM/i7-2635QM, > i7-2670QM/i7-2675QM, i5-2430M/i5-2435M, i5-2410M/i5-2415M. Please > contact OEM for the BIOS that includes the latest Processor > configuration update. > > Hmmm, does this update the firmware on the processor? Isn't that dangerous? Given intel provides it and designed the chips to allow updating it at runtime (The update is NOT permanent), no it isn't. The chip is manufactured with one version, but can have an update applied at boot into internal ram. Linux can do that too even if you can't get a bios update to do it for you. Of course this being intel maybe the 'processor configuration update' is different than the 'microcode update' I am thinking they mean. intel has come out with some amazingly stupid features on some of their chips lately where you can buy a cpu upgrade later and your cpu changes from one model to another by running some intel software and paying intel some money and it unlocks some disabled parts of your hardware. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 20:07:46 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:07:46 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Coming To Android Smartphones In-Reply-To: References: <1357193892.16266.43.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: <20130111200746.GK1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 10:42:06AM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > The fact that there's no code available yet puts my expectations entirely low. > > There's a lot *wrong* with it... I certainly don't want it. > a) No code drop yet. If it were a *real* free software project, you > drop code *before* doing pretty demos. > > b) Requires recompiling for each variation of CPU hardware that'll > come. The non-need for that is one of the merits of Java... > > c) Yay, yet another language/API combination with zero intersection > with existing mobile development usage. (Or perhaps Windows Mobile is > using C++? I'm not sure...) Gotta reimplement Mozilla yet again. Windows Phone uses .net runtime with hence similar merits as java. It's bytecode. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 11 20:12:50 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:12:50 -0500 Subject: Cubox? Linux 3.7 released, bringing generic ARM support In-Reply-To: References: <20121217023025.GA1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130111201250.GL1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 10:01:01AM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > I got an eSATA cable for Christmas, Tiger Direct apparently gave away a > nice 7 foot cable for $8. Sweet! At least now it has decent storage for my > bittorrent lawlessness. ESATA won't hotplug due to kernel power saving > moves by Cubox devs, you have to reboot, but otherwise sweetness. > > It is actually a pretty good computer in general. The problem comes with > web browsing when you get beyond a couple of tabs open in Firefox and all > the scripts start to pile up in the background. I guess that's a > combination of memory and lack of hard FP? I am not an expert... :-) The CuBox does not lack hardware FP. Now if you are not running armhf on it, then that may mean you aren't using it. Firefox's code base is a huge pile of shit though, not that anyone seems able to write an efficient html engine that does CSS. It may be impossible. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 00:20:46 2013 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:20:46 -0500 Subject: SSD on desktop linux Message-ID: <20130112002046.GA28684@yam.nerd.cx> This fall I decided to spend a little (very little - $60) on a small SSD to act as my primary hard drive - for /, /tmp, /var /usr - basically everything except /home. I had heard a lot about them, and though my motherboard does not support SATA3, it does support SATA2, so I thought it might be worth a try. At worst, I knew I could put it into an old, enfeebled laptop that would then be rejuvenated by the new drive and the installation of linux. I put the drive in and started the installation process - I chose to manually partition so that I could specify a bigger swap partition. I don't actually have much RAM in the machine, so I thought that a big-ish swap might pay off. The first thing I noticed was how fast the installation went - I haven't installed on the same hardware in a couple of years, so I don't have metrics, but it happened too fast to leave unattended. I found staring at a root prompt on the rebooted machine in something like 10 minutes. I install Debian, and once I get the stable distribution up and running I install a few key things (sudo, vim-full) and then I change /etc/apt/sources.list to use Debian testing and do an apt-get dist-upgrade. I like the compromise between stability and recency in the testing distribution - most upgrades work perfectly, with perhaps one every 3 years that requires post-upgrade intervention. I figured this upgrade, which typically involves hundreds of packages, would be a good test of the new hardware. It was, in that it happened extremely quickly - downloads seemed to happen at the same speed (unsurprising) but the unpacking and installation of packages happened at blazing speed. In an hour I had my machine set up with all the same software I previously used, from playing with screwdrivers and mounting rails to looking at the web in Iceweasel (Firefox). Launching Firefox is particularly telling - it used to take about a three-count, but now it happens before I can exhale. Installing an SSD in my desktop machine makes a *huge* difference - it is the best upgrade I've made to a desktop since I hooked up an LCD monitor. One thing of note - I did not realize that Mushkin shipped their 2.5-inch drives with mounting rails, so I bought mounting rails with the drive, which was a waste. Live and learn. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 00:48:17 2013 From: williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Weaver) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:48:17 -0500 Subject: SSD on desktop linux In-Reply-To: <20130112002046.GA28684-Cpl6C+benBZfq8cQ1yknNg@public.gmane.org> References: <20130112002046.GA28684@yam.nerd.cx> Message-ID: Many SSD come with their own mounts currently and new cases offer great ways to mount them in previously unusable space. Mine actually mounts it flush on the bottom of the case. Also something that was pointed out to me. Its always worth buying a faster drive than mob allows. Sata 6MB drives with Sata 3MB mobo will be sure to max the connection speed while a sata 3MB might only transfer at 2.5 My 2 Will Weaver On Jan 11, 2013 7:21 PM, "William O'Higgins Witteman" < william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote: > This fall I decided to spend a little (very little - $60) on a small SSD > to act as my primary hard drive - for /, /tmp, /var /usr - basically > everything except /home. I had heard a lot about them, and though my > motherboard does not support SATA3, it does support SATA2, so I thought > it might be worth a try. At worst, I knew I could put it into an old, > enfeebled laptop that would then be rejuvenated by the new drive and the > installation of linux. > > I put the drive in and started the installation process - I chose to > manually partition so that I could specify a bigger swap partition. I > don't actually have much RAM in the machine, so I thought that a big-ish > swap might pay off. > > The first thing I noticed was how fast the installation went - I haven't > installed on the same hardware in a couple of years, so I don't have > metrics, but it happened too fast to leave unattended. I found staring > at a root prompt on the rebooted machine in something like 10 minutes. > > I install Debian, and once I get the stable distribution up and running > I install a few key things (sudo, vim-full) and then I change > /etc/apt/sources.list to use Debian testing and do an apt-get > dist-upgrade. I like the compromise between stability and recency in > the testing distribution - most upgrades work perfectly, with perhaps > one every 3 years that requires post-upgrade intervention. > > I figured this upgrade, which typically involves hundreds of packages, > would be a good test of the new hardware. It was, in that it happened > extremely quickly - downloads seemed to happen at the same speed > (unsurprising) but the unpacking and installation of packages happened > at blazing speed. In an hour I had my machine set up with all the same > software I previously used, from playing with screwdrivers and mounting > rails to looking at the web in Iceweasel (Firefox). > > Launching Firefox is particularly telling - it used to take about a > three-count, but now it happens before I can exhale. > > Installing an SSD in my desktop machine makes a *huge* difference - it > is the best upgrade I've made to a desktop since I hooked up an LCD > monitor. > > One thing of note - I did not realize that Mushkin shipped their > 2.5-inch drives with mounting rails, so I bought mounting rails with the > drive, which was a waste. Live and learn. > -- > > yours, > > William > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 12 02:46:33 2013 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 21:46:33 -0500 Subject: SSD on desktop linux In-Reply-To: <20130112002046.GA28684-Cpl6C+benBZfq8cQ1yknNg@public.gmane.org> References: <20130112002046.GA28684@yam.nerd.cx> Message-ID: <20130112024633.GA26074@amber> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 07:20:46PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Installing an SSD in my desktop machine makes a *huge* difference - it > is the best upgrade I've made to a desktop since I hooked up an LCD > monitor. I had exactly the same experience -- coupled with a RAM upgrade, it makes even gentoo almost painless: startx loads a GUI instantly, windows snap open at a click, and disk-intensive operations (like file indexing) no longer slow everything to a crawl. Well worth every penny. I suppose even these speed gains will seem slow and antiquated one day, but by then I expect to be pretty slow and antiquated myself, so I won't care. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 13 01:58:22 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:58:22 -0500 Subject: Shodan search engine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20984827 Anyway knew of these guys before? Poked around for a couple of keywords and picked lots of systems. For example, petty easy to tell who has Asterisk, or callmanager. Petty harmless information, but from there you can for example easily use their system if they have weak sip passwords. Interesting service William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 13 15:05:26 2013 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 10:05:26 -0500 Subject: [OT?] Need Source for short depth rack rails Message-ID: <37db9a2ab239133d9a63320c0f992f01.squirrel@gtuckey.ca> Hey all, This may be off topic but I've got a 12U wall-mount short depth rack cabinet and I can't find rail kits to fit. It's a four post, 15.5" from front post to back post and 20.5" from front door to wall. Can anyone tell me where I can find rails to fit such a cabinet? My google searches are not helping. It appears that the shortest rail commonly available is 20". Thanks, Stephen ____________________ Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 13 15:11:51 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 10:11:51 -0500 Subject: [OT?] Need Source for short depth rack rails In-Reply-To: <37db9a2ab239133d9a63320c0f992f01.squirrel-rBeSyQfSIRKw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <37db9a2ab239133d9a63320c0f992f01.squirrel@gtuckey.ca> Message-ID: <50F2CEB7.20102@rogers.com> Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > This may be off topic but I've got a 12U wall-mount short depth rack > cabinet and I can't find rail kits to fit. It's a four post, 15.5" from > front post to back post and 20.5" from front door to wall. Can anyone tell > me where I can find rails to fit such a cabinet? My google searches are > not helping. It appears that the shortest rail commonly available is 20". Who made the cabinet? Have you tried Hammond? If all else fails, you may be able to adapt a longer rail by using a hack saw & power drill. BTW, on one occasion, I arranged with DL Custom to make a pair of custom rails for one of their cabinets. The rails were standard length, but required non-standard spacing for the mounting screw holes. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 13 16:29:00 2013 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:29:00 -0500 Subject: [OT?] Need Source for short depth rack rails In-Reply-To: <50F2CEB7.20102-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <37db9a2ab239133d9a63320c0f992f01.squirrel@gtuckey.ca> <50F2CEB7.20102@rogers.com> Message-ID: It's a Tripp Lite SRW12USG. I'll take a look at Hammond. Stephen > Stephen W. Clarke wrote: >> This may be off topic but I've got a 12U wall-mount short depth rack >> cabinet and I can't find rail kits to fit. It's a four post, 15.5" from >> front post to back post and 20.5" from front door to wall. Can anyone >> tell >> me where I can find rails to fit such a cabinet? My google searches are >> not helping. It appears that the shortest rail commonly available is >> 20". > > Who made the cabinet? Have you tried Hammond? If all else fails, you > may be able to adapt a longer rail by using a hack saw & power drill. > > BTW, on one occasion, I arranged with DL Custom to make a pair of custom > rails for one of their cabinets. The rails were standard length, but > required non-standard spacing for the mounting screw holes. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > ____________________ Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 04:23:58 2013 From: mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org (Molly Tournquist) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 23:23:58 -0500 Subject: Colemak keyboard Message-ID: <20130114042358.325710@gmx.com> Wow, that is impressive. I don't even know how easy to use solder is, particularly if you're sticking to lead-free. Maltrons also only use cherry brown or cherry black switches, but... ...I could have sworn I've just come across some mention of kinesis keyboards manufactured with cherry blues... I too have thought that buckling spring has become synonymous with unicomp. I'm in particular resistant to trying an 87 key Model M - I wouldn't be able to count on a replacement for that specific one. But, what they do still have is these wild 122 key 4 or 5 pound tanks: http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/PC122 However, the PS2 versions just give shifted F1to12 signals for F13+, thoough I don't know about the USB version. ----- Original Message ----- From: Giles Orr Sent: 01/08/13 10:16 AM On 8 January 2013 03:05, Molly Tournquist wrote: > Not really, in fact, I'd even prefer keys with backlighting, especially red. > I would definitly not go out of my way to get something like a das keyboard. > though on the other hand an ergo kinesys would be a bit too much too. A > "truly ergonomic" keyboard is tempting, but then again, so would be > repurpossing a Japanese keyboard, what with the split up spacebar. And it > kind of looks more impressive, sort of a bit revolutionary, if it's > physically rearanged. > > But the "semi custom" ,,, product toolkit is a very interesting. While they > emphasise WASD-differentiation, the gallery is full of all sorts of > configurations. The color coding would certainly be purposefully dramatic > with something like "Colemak extra wide". And they do have 105 key > keyboards. so that is easily possible. > > Capacitive? But isn't that basically a regular dome switch, except more > durable? The other very significant mechanical type that comes to mind is > ALPS switches, though more on older keyboards. Oddly to me, I don't have any > memory of anything comparring ALPS to cherry or buckling spring switches. I bought a Coolermaster Quickfire about a year ago. It's a fairly standard keyboard but quite durable, without a numeric keypad, and with Cherry blue switches. Like Aaron I already own a dozen or so keyboards so I really didn't need it ... but the Quickfire is quite lovely and is now my second choice keyboard. (First choice is a Kinesis Advantage modded with Cherry blue switches - Kinesis's default is Cherry brown which I don't like as much, your soldering iron is your friend). The Cherry blues are about as close as you can get to the old IBM buckling springs without actually finding one of the very few buckling spring manufacturers still out there. You may not want that. But I did find you a red back-lit keyboard with mechanical switches: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129011 I've pointed you to the blue key model as that's my personal preference, but they seem to come in the other Cherry keyswitch colours. Most people aren't as obsessed as I am with keyboards and may find $120 a bit steep when a keyboard can be had for $5 at the dollar store ... your call. For anyone interested in turning a Kinesis "blue": http://www.gilesorr.com/misc/keyboards/kinesisblue.html -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 07:46:47 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 02:46:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Colemak keyboard In-Reply-To: References: <20130104221612.97670@gmx.com> Message-ID: | From: Aaron Doucette | Cherry browns are good switches, but it's not as though the mech options | end there. What didn't you like about them specifically? I think that I don't need "clicky" sound but do want the feel of a keystroke registering ("tactile"). So, going through the Cherry MX line, brown and clear seem to be it. I've not seen a clear. When I tried a brown keyboard in NCIX, I didn't have time to "live" with it. That's why it really isn't a fair test. The tactile feedback seemed a bit light and I wasn't sure that it directly corresponded with signalling (the diagrams suggest that it does not). My current ordinary PC keyboard seems fine / good enough. It is a Compaq, at least a decade old, selected as best among ~20 old keyboards I had laying about when my previous keyboard broke a few years ago. My typing habits are old. I learned on a mechanical keyboard, part of a mechanical typewriter (Underwood, I think). I touch type ideosyncratically. For example, I almost never use the right shift key since that was "alpha" shift on the IBM 026 and 029 (punchchard) keypunches that I spent a formative decade using. There are only a few mainstream keyboards that I strongly dislike. One is on my Acer One 522 netbook -- the keys wobble laterally, tipping slightly! (On paper, it is an outstanding netbook but it also has a noisy fan that runs too often and the battery life isn't good enough. Still, it's cute.) | I have everything | from buckling spring to topre and they all have their strengths and | weaknesses. The only switches I personally can't stand are linear, like | cherry blacks (bigger with the gaming crowd). The first linear keyboard that I had was a Hall Effect keyboard that I bought from Active Surplus in the 1970's. It was considered a high-end wonder of technology (no electrical/electronic mechanism subjected to wear). But it didn't feel good to me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 13:57:39 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 08:57:39 -0500 Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud Message-ID: It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of servers and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to switch make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if that machine fails ? DNS round robin doesn't exactly work. I have a very limited understanding of BGP is it possible to do without BGP ? Dave Cramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 14:33:43 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:33:43 -0500 Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50F41747.1020508@utoronto.ca> On 13-01-14 08:57 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of servers > and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to switch > make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if that > machine fails ? Research things like pacemaker, heartbeat, stonith, and using 3 or more nodes in your system (3 nodes so that you don't end up in a split brain situation, especially if your systems are distributed). You'll likely want another back-channel method of communicating between each system in case something goes awry - what if one your ISP/cloud providers can't route public traffic to a node, but the node still thinks it is online? You want some method of achieving a quorum between remaining nodes, and some method of killing off the rogue node. > DNS round robin doesn't exactly work. I have a very limited understanding > of BGP is it possible to do without BGP ? BGP is most certainly *not* what you want to be using. It is for advertising ASNs to other ISPs, so when someone with their big 20.0.0.0/8 network wants to route it, or reassign it to someone else, or split it up into smaller net blocks, other ISPs are aware of where to find the network. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 14:43:47 2013 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:43:47 -0500 Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: <50F41747.1020508-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <50F41747.1020508@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <50F419A3.9030604@alteeve.ca> On 01/14/2013 09:33 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 13-01-14 08:57 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: >> It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of servers >> and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to switch >> make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if that >> machine fails ? > > Research things like pacemaker, heartbeat, stonith, and using 3 or more > nodes in your system (3 nodes so that you don't end up in a split brain > situation, especially if your systems are distributed). > > You'll likely want another back-channel method of communicating between > each system in case something goes awry - what if one your ISP/cloud > providers can't route public traffic to a node, but the node still > thinks it is online? > > You want some method of achieving a quorum between remaining nodes, and > some method of killing off the rogue node. A few points; - Heartbeat is deprecated, don't use it. - Quorum is optional. Both pacemaker and cman/rgmanager (Red Hat) use corosync for cluster communication and membership. Both can disable quorum and this is fine. - The members need to be (physically) close to each so that you can use fencing. Fencing is critical to safe operation of a cluster. Without it, it is easy/possible for a split-brain to occur. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 14:54:15 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:54:15 -0500 Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: <50F419A3.9030604-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <50F41747.1020508@utoronto.ca> <50F419A3.9030604@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Digimer wrote: > On 01/14/2013 09:33 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > > On 13-01-14 08:57 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of > servers > >> and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to switch > >> make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if > that > >> machine fails ? > > > > Research things like pacemaker, heartbeat, stonith, and using 3 or more > > nodes in your system (3 nodes so that you don't end up in a split brain > > situation, especially if your systems are distributed). > > > > You'll likely want another back-channel method of communicating between > > each system in case something goes awry - what if one your ISP/cloud > > providers can't route public traffic to a node, but the node still > > thinks it is online? > > > > You want some method of achieving a quorum between remaining nodes, and > > some method of killing off the rogue node. > > A few points; > > - Heartbeat is deprecated, don't use it. > - Quorum is optional. Both pacemaker and cman/rgmanager (Red Hat) use > corosync for cluster communication and membership. Both can disable > quorum and this is fine. > - The members need to be (physically) close to each so that you can use > fencing. Fencing is critical to safe operation of a cluster. Without it, > it is easy/possible for a split-brain to occur. > > If you place your machines physically close to one another then a geographical outage can take them both out. I guess pacemaker is more for machines dying than for geographical high availability Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 14:54:50 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:54:50 -0500 Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of servers and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to switch make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if that machine fails ? > You can use LVS as a load balancer. It will remove the dead system asap and automatically put it back on distribution when it become available again. > DNS round robin doesn't exactly work. I have a very limited understanding of BGP is it possible to do without BGP ? Yes, but a major overkill. BGP is ideal to load balance between two or more ISPs. Internally not a good solution. > > > Dave Cramer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 15:52:26 2013 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:52:26 -0500 Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: References: <50F41747.1020508@utoronto.ca> <50F419A3.9030604@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <50F429BA.7080803@alteeve.ca> On 01/14/2013 09:54 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Digimer > wrote: > > On 01/14/2013 09:33 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > > On 13-01-14 08:57 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number > of servers > >> and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to > switch > >> make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily > if that > >> machine fails ? > > > > Research things like pacemaker, heartbeat, stonith, and using 3 or > more > > nodes in your system (3 nodes so that you don't end up in a split > brain > > situation, especially if your systems are distributed). > > > > You'll likely want another back-channel method of communicating > between > > each system in case something goes awry - what if one your ISP/cloud > > providers can't route public traffic to a node, but the node still > > thinks it is online? > > > > You want some method of achieving a quorum between remaining > nodes, and > > some method of killing off the rogue node. > > A few points; > > - Heartbeat is deprecated, don't use it. > - Quorum is optional. Both pacemaker and cman/rgmanager (Red Hat) use > corosync for cluster communication and membership. Both can disable > quorum and this is fine. > - The members need to be (physically) close to each so that you can use > fencing. Fencing is critical to safe operation of a cluster. Without it, > it is easy/possible for a split-brain to occur. > > > > If you place your machines physically close to one another then a > geographical outage can take them both out. I guess pacemaker is more > for machines dying than for geographical high availability > > Dave That's called a "stretch cluster" and they are very hard/expensive to build properly. In order for a service to fail over without risking a split-brain, the failed node(s) has to be put into a known state, which is what fencing does, by (usually) forcing it to power off. Even if you build in dual links between the buildings, you will have to run them over physically different links in order to avoid, for example, a dig cutting both at the same time. Even then, a fire or similar disaster can easily take out both links near the end-points. What I tend to recommend to/do for my clients is to setup production clusters for day to day use. These provide fault tolerance and HA without lost data in the case of component failure. This protects them against the normal failure modes that cause outages. Then, if the client is interested, I will create a geographically disparate cluster with enough VMs to run things in a degraded state in the event of a local disaster. The client then runs hourly, quarterly or daily "traditional" backups to the remote site's VMs. If the production cluster(s) are disabled, they can switch over to the backups by simply having them take over the IPs of the lost machines. Yes, in this case some data will be lost, but the costs are _much_ lower and the risk of split-brain is gone. However, failover is purely manual. In most cases, clients consider this to be a justified risk/hassle, given the conditions under which it will be needed. In short; automatic failover requires fencing to be safe. Fencing requires independent confirmation of a node's state. That requires a working network connection and a working fence device on either end. Anything in the same place as the target node is vulnerable to the same fate as the nodes themselves. Esoteric fence methods may be possible, but they would likely require some serious costs for moderately more reliable operation. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 19:51:15 2013 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:51:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1358193075.99821.YahooMailNeo@web120806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> If the application is HTTP a relatively simple solution is to use nginx as a load balancer?http://blog.jsdelivr.com/2013/01/nginx-load-balancing-basics.html plus some hearbeat/monitoring to detect/alert when a node goes down. High availability is an excellent area to learn about networking/scripting/trade-off decisions etc but it's very hard to get right, esp. the first time. I think is very worth it using the cloud provider's solutions, like Amazon's (or Rackspace's) load balancers and autoscaling. --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com >________________________________ > From: Dave Cramer >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 8:57:39 AM >Subject: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud > > >It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of servers and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to switch make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if that machine fails ? > > >DNS round robin doesn't exactly work. I have a very limited understanding of BGP is it possible to do without BGP ? > > > >Dave Cramer > >? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 19:58:55 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:58:55 -0500 Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: <1358193075.99821.YahooMailNeo-4IE30E7YIUhRBbKmAC7my5OW+3bF1jUfVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1358193075.99821.YahooMailNeo@web120806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well I don't want to use a single provider such as amazon. Which makes things more difficult. So the problem is essentially how to duplicate their elastic ip's Dave Cramer On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Fernando Duran wrote: > If the application is HTTP a relatively simple solution is to use nginx as > a load balancer > http://blog.jsdelivr.com/2013/01/nginx-load-balancing-basics.html plus > some hearbeat/monitoring to detect/alert when a node goes down. > > High availability is an excellent area to learn about > networking/scripting/trade-off decisions etc but it's very hard to get > right, esp. the first time. I think is very worth it using the cloud > provider's solutions, like Amazon's (or Rackspace's) load balancers and > autoscaling. > > --------------------- > Fernando Duran > http://www.fduran.com > > > >________________________________ > > From: Dave Cramer > >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 8:57:39 AM > >Subject: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud > > > > > >It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of > servers and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to > switch make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if > that machine fails ? > > > > > >DNS round robin doesn't exactly work. I have a very limited understanding > of BGP is it possible to do without BGP ? > > > > > > > >Dave Cramer > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 20:26:57 2013 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:26:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: References: <1358193075.99821.YahooMailNeo@web120806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1358195217.62304.YahooMailNeo@web120805.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >________________________________ > From: Dave Cramer >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:58:55 PM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud > > >Well I don't want to use a single provider such as amazon. Which makes things more difficult. More difficult how? if it's because you're more?dependent of a?particular?provider/solution?I?understand.? Cheers, --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com > > >So the problem is essentially how to duplicate their elastic ip's > > > >Dave Cramer > > >On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Fernando Duran wrote: > >If the application is HTTP a relatively simple solution is to use nginx as a load balancer?http://blog.jsdelivr.com/2013/01/nginx-load-balancing-basics.html plus some hearbeat/monitoring to detect/alert when a node goes down. >> >>High availability is an excellent area to learn about networking/scripting/trade-off decisions etc but it's very hard to get right, esp. the first time. I think is very worth it using the cloud provider's solutions, like Amazon's (or Rackspace's) load balancers and autoscaling. >> >>--------------------- >>Fernando Duran >>http://www.fduran.com >> >> >>>________________________________ >>> From: Dave Cramer >>>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 8:57:39 AM >>>Subject: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud >> >>> >>> >>>It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of servers and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to switch make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if that machine fails ? >>> >>> >>>DNS round robin doesn't exactly work. I have a very limited understanding of BGP is it possible to do without BGP ? >>> >>> >>> >>>Dave Cramer >>> >>>? >> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > >? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 20:36:43 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:36:43 -0500 Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: <1358195217.62304.YahooMailNeo-4IE30E7YIUjuQS8rMknbopOW+3bF1jUfVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1358193075.99821.YahooMailNeo@web120806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1358195217.62304.YahooMailNeo@web120805.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well because I don't really own any of the IP's as well as they are on disparate networks. Amazon's elastic IP solves my problem since I can repoint it at will, however last time amazon had an outage their console went down as well which made that impossible. Dave Dave Cramer On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Fernando Duran wrote: > > >________________________________ > > From: Dave Cramer > >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:58:55 PM > >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed > cloud > > > > > >Well I don't want to use a single provider such as amazon. Which makes > things more difficult. > > More difficult how? if it's because you're more dependent of > a particular provider/solution I understand. > > > Cheers, > > --------------------- > Fernando Duran > http://www.fduran.com > > > > > > > > >So the problem is essentially how to duplicate their elastic ip's > > > > > > > >Dave Cramer > > > > > >On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Fernando Duran > wrote: > > > >If the application is HTTP a relatively simple solution is to use nginx > as a load balancer > http://blog.jsdelivr.com/2013/01/nginx-load-balancing-basics.html plus > some hearbeat/monitoring to detect/alert when a node goes down. > >> > >>High availability is an excellent area to learn about > networking/scripting/trade-off decisions etc but it's very hard to get > right, esp. the first time. I think is very worth it using the cloud > provider's solutions, like Amazon's (or Rackspace's) load balancers and > autoscaling. > >> > >>--------------------- > >>Fernando Duran > >>http://www.fduran.com > >> > >> > >>>________________________________ > >>> From: Dave Cramer > >>>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > >>>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 8:57:39 AM > >>>Subject: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed > cloud > >> > >>> > >>> > >>>It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of > servers and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to > switch make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if > that machine fails ? > >>> > >>> > >>>DNS round robin doesn't exactly work. I have a very limited > understanding of BGP is it possible to do without BGP ? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Dave Cramer > >>> > >>> > >> > >>-- > >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 20:51:14 2013 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:51:14 -0500 Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: References: <1358193075.99821.YahooMailNeo@web120806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1358195217.62304.YahooMailNeo@web120805.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50F46FC2.7090203@alteeve.ca> This being the fundamental problem of "clouds". You forgo control and, in an outage, are at the hands and priority of your cloud provider. Exactly why I stick to private clouds. More expensive and more administration overhead, but entirely in my own control. On 01/14/2013 03:36 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > Well because I don't really own any of the IP's as well as they are on > disparate networks. Amazon's elastic IP solves my problem since I can > repoint it at will, however last time amazon had an outage their console > went down as well which made that impossible. > > Dave > > Dave Cramer > > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Fernando Duran > wrote: > > > >________________________________ > > From: Dave Cramer > > >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:58:55 PM > >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a > distributed cloud > > > > > >Well I don't want to use a single provider such as amazon. Which > makes things more difficult. > > More difficult how? if it's because you're more dependent of > a particular provider/solution I understand. > > > Cheers, > > --------------------- > Fernando Duran > http://www.fduran.com > > > > > > > > >So the problem is essentially how to duplicate their elastic ip's > > > > > > > >Dave Cramer > > > > > >On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Fernando Duran > wrote: > > > >If the application is HTTP a relatively simple solution is to use > nginx as a load > balancer http://blog.jsdelivr.com/2013/01/nginx-load-balancing-basics.html > plus some hearbeat/monitoring to detect/alert when a node goes down. > >> > >>High availability is an excellent area to learn about > networking/scripting/trade-off decisions etc but it's very hard to > get right, esp. the first time. I think is very worth it using the > cloud provider's solutions, like Amazon's (or Rackspace's) load > balancers and autoscaling. > >> > >>--------------------- > >>Fernando Duran > >>http://www.fduran.com > >> > >> > >>>________________________________ > >>> From: Dave Cramer > > >>>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > >>>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 8:57:39 AM > >>>Subject: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a > distributed cloud > >> > >>> > >>> > >>>It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number > of servers and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out > is how to switch make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can > be moved easily if that machine fails ? > >>> > >>> > >>>DNS round robin doesn't exactly work. I have a very limited > understanding of BGP is it possible to do without BGP ? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Dave Cramer > >>> > >>> > >> > >>-- > >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 21:08:20 2013 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:08:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: References: <1358193075.99821.YahooMailNeo@web120806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1358195217.62304.YahooMailNeo@web120805.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1358197700.15754.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >________________________________ > From: Dave Cramer >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:36:43 PM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud > > >Well because I don't really own any of the IP's as well as they are on disparate networks. Amazon's elastic IP solves my problem since I can repoint it at will, however last time amazon had an outage their console went down as well which made that impossible. > Yep, they've had 3 outages in about a year. Note that with a?load?balancer (nginx/wahtever) you don't need to reassign IPs since it's not a "master/slave" or stand-by solution; all servers are online with their own IP/DNS name and the LB distributes the load and if one goes down the node gets out of rotation (no traffic goes to it). It's much much better imho to not have different roles (master/slave), changing IPs, split brain and timeout/response time problems and?just?have the same single configuration in the same one server image that can be spun in a minute. Of course now the LB is a single point of failure. Cheers, ? --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com > >Dave > > >Dave Cramer > > >On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Fernando Duran wrote: > > >>>________________________________ >>> From: Dave Cramer >>>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:58:55 PM >>>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud >> >>> >>> >>>Well I don't want to use a single provider such as amazon. Which makes things more difficult. >> >>More difficult how? if it's because you're more?dependent of a?particular?provider/solution?I?understand.? >> >> >>Cheers, >> >> >>--------------------- >>Fernando Duran >>http://www.fduran.com >> >> >> >>> >>> >>>So the problem is essentially how to duplicate their elastic ip's >>> >>> >>> >>>Dave Cramer >>> >>> >>>On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Fernando Duran wrote: >>> >>>If the application is HTTP a relatively simple solution is to use nginx as a load balancer?http://blog.jsdelivr.com/2013/01/nginx-load-balancing-basics.html plus some hearbeat/monitoring to detect/alert when a node goes down. >>>> >>>>High availability is an excellent area to learn about networking/scripting/trade-off decisions etc but it's very hard to get right, esp. the first time. I think is very worth it using the cloud provider's solutions, like Amazon's (or Rackspace's) load balancers and autoscaling. >>>> >>>>--------------------- >>>>Fernando Duran >>>>http://www.fduran.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>________________________________ >>>>> From: Dave Cramer >>>>>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>>>>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 8:57:39 AM >>>>>Subject: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of servers and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to switch make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if that machine fails ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>DNS round robin doesn't exactly work. I have a very limited understanding of BGP is it possible to do without BGP ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dave Cramer >>>>> >>>>>? >>>> >>>>-- >>>>The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>> >>> >>>? >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 21:51:33 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 16:51:33 -0500 Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: <1358197700.15754.YahooMailNeo-4IE30E7YIUgIL6oRCX9nZJOW+3bF1jUfVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1358193075.99821.YahooMailNeo@web120806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1358195217.62304.YahooMailNeo@web120805.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1358197700.15754.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yep, they've had 3 outages in about a year. > > Note that with a load balancer (nginx/wahtever) you don't need to reassign > IPs since it's not a "master/slave" or stand-by solution; all servers are > online with their own IP/DNS name and the LB distributes the load and if > one goes down the node gets out of rotation (no traffic goes to it). It's > much much better imho to not have different roles (master/slave), changing > IPs, split brain and timeout/response time problems and just have the same > single configuration in the same one server image that can be spun in a > minute. Of course now the LB is a single point of failure. > > Yes, it is the LB that is the problem, how do you deal with that ? Dave > Cheers, > > --------------------- > Fernando Duran > http://www.fduran.com > > > > >Dave > > > > > >Dave Cramer > > > > > >On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Fernando Duran > wrote: > > > > > >>>________________________________ > >>> From: Dave Cramer > >>>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > >>>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:58:55 PM > >>>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed > cloud > >> > >>> > >>> > >>>Well I don't want to use a single provider such as amazon. Which makes > things more difficult. > >> > >>More difficult how? if it's because you're more dependent of > a particular provider/solution I understand. > >> > >> > >>Cheers, > >> > >> > >>--------------------- > >>Fernando Duran > >>http://www.fduran.com > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >>> > >>>So the problem is essentially how to duplicate their elastic ip's > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Dave Cramer > >>> > >>> > >>>On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Fernando Duran > wrote: > >>> > >>>If the application is HTTP a relatively simple solution is to use nginx > as a load balancer > http://blog.jsdelivr.com/2013/01/nginx-load-balancing-basics.html plus > some hearbeat/monitoring to detect/alert when a node goes down. > >>>> > >>>>High availability is an excellent area to learn about > networking/scripting/trade-off decisions etc but it's very hard to get > right, esp. the first time. I think is very worth it using the cloud > provider's solutions, like Amazon's (or Rackspace's) load balancers and > autoscaling. > >>>> > >>>>--------------------- > >>>>Fernando Duran > >>>>http://www.fduran.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>________________________________ > >>>>> From: Dave Cramer > >>>>>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > >>>>>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 8:57:39 AM > >>>>>Subject: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed > cloud > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of > servers and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to > switch make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if > that machine fails ? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>DNS round robin doesn't exactly work. I have a very limited > understanding of BGP is it possible to do without BGP ? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>Dave Cramer > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >>>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >>>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 22:19:15 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 17:19:15 -0500 Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? Message-ID: <20130114221915.GA21545@waltdnes.org> I'm not complaining, because I prefer it that way, but I just want to check. First, let's get the number of seconds between 1970/01/01 and 2013/01/01, i.e. exactly 43 years. [d531][waltdnes][~] date +%s -u -d 2013-01-01 1356998400 Next, divide by 86,400 (number of seconds in a day. [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 1356998400 / 86400 )) 15706 And confirm that this is an exact division with zero remainder. [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 15706 * 86400 )) 1356998400 Divide 15706 days by 365 [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 15706 / 365 )) 43 Multiply by 365 to check the remainder [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 43 * 365 )) 15695 15706 - 15695 = 11. This is due to 11 intervening leap years, i.e. 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2012. So it all works out. Is this supposed to continue, or are there any plans to include leap seconds? Right now, I'd prefer not to. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 22:23:59 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 17:23:59 -0500 Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: <20130114221915.GA21545-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130114221915.GA21545@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130114222359.GM1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 05:19:15PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm not complaining, because I prefer it that way, but I just want to > check. First, let's get the number of seconds between 1970/01/01 and > 2013/01/01, i.e. exactly 43 years. > > [d531][waltdnes][~] date +%s -u -d 2013-01-01 > 1356998400 > > Next, divide by 86,400 (number of seconds in a day. > > [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 1356998400 / 86400 )) > 15706 > > And confirm that this is an exact division with zero remainder. > > [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 15706 * 86400 )) > 1356998400 > > Divide 15706 days by 365 > > [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 15706 / 365 )) > 43 > > Multiply by 365 to check the remainder > > [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 43 * 365 )) > 15695 > > 15706 - 15695 = 11. This is due to 11 intervening leap years, i.e. > 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2012. > > So it all works out. Is this supposed to continue, or are there any > plans to include leap seconds? Right now, I'd prefer not to. I do not believe information on leap seconds is part of the timezone data, so there is nowhere to get this information from as far as I know. I think leap seconds are just to keep midnight at midnight and the historical effect of them is so small as to be generally irrelevant and is hence ignored. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william-HPpJ5Ac2/Hg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 22:38:34 2013 From: william-HPpJ5Ac2/Hg at public.gmane.org (William Porquet) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 17:38:34 -0500 Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: <20130114222359.GM1769-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130114221915.GA21545@waltdnes.org> <20130114222359.GM1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: IIRC, leap-seconds are added as needed by an independent origanization to account for the slight lag of the earth's rotation around the sun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap-second#Insertion_of_leap_seconds Cheers, W. On 14 January 2013 17:23, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 05:19:15PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: >> I'm not complaining, because I prefer it that way, but I just want to >> check. First, let's get the number of seconds between 1970/01/01 and >> 2013/01/01, i.e. exactly 43 years. >> >> [d531][waltdnes][~] date +%s -u -d 2013-01-01 >> 1356998400 >> >> Next, divide by 86,400 (number of seconds in a day. >> >> [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 1356998400 / 86400 )) >> 15706 >> >> And confirm that this is an exact division with zero remainder. >> >> [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 15706 * 86400 )) >> 1356998400 >> >> Divide 15706 days by 365 >> >> [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 15706 / 365 )) >> 43 >> >> Multiply by 365 to check the remainder >> >> [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 43 * 365 )) >> 15695 >> >> 15706 - 15695 = 11. This is due to 11 intervening leap years, i.e. >> 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2012. >> >> So it all works out. Is this supposed to continue, or are there any >> plans to include leap seconds? Right now, I'd prefer not to. > > I do not believe information on leap seconds is part of the timezone data, > so there is nowhere to get this information from as far as I know. > > I think leap seconds are just to keep midnight at midnight and the > historical effect of them is so small as to be generally irrelevant and > is hence ignored. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- William Porquet, M.A. ? mailto:william-HPpJ5Ac2/Hg at public.gmane.org ? http://www.2038.org/ ?Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.? - Lucius Ann?us Seneca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 23:10:43 2013 From: bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Bill Duncan) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 18:10:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: from "William Porquet" at Jan 14, 2013 05:38:34 PM References: Message-ID: The whole point I believe, is to insert them in there *without* accounting for it. If you think about it, if the userland programs added the seconds in there, then you wouldn't have accomplished anything. eg. 43years + N seconds would still be just that.. 43 years + N seconds. The leap seconds are "inserterted" while clocks are effectively standing still for an extra second, so date and their userland ilk will not know about it.. Cheers. [William Porquet said:] > > IIRC, leap-seconds are added as needed by an independent origanization > to account for the slight lag of the earth's rotation around the sun. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap-second#Insertion_of_leap_seconds > > Cheers, > W. > > On 14 January 2013 17:23, Lennart Sorensen w= > rote: > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 05:19:15PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> I'm not complaining, because I prefer it that way, but I just want to > >> check. First, let's get the number of seconds between 1970/01/01 and > >> 2013/01/01, i.e. exactly 43 years. > >> > >> [d531][waltdnes][~] date +%s -u -d 2013-01-01 > >> 1356998400 > >> > >> Next, divide by 86,400 (number of seconds in a day. > >> > >> [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 1356998400 / 86400 )) > >> 15706 > >> > >> And confirm that this is an exact division with zero remainder. > >> > >> [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 15706 * 86400 )) > >> 1356998400 > >> > >> Divide 15706 days by 365 > >> > >> [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 15706 / 365 )) > >> 43 > >> > >> Multiply by 365 to check the remainder > >> > >> [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 43 * 365 )) > >> 15695 > >> > >> 15706 - 15695 =3D 11. This is due to 11 intervening leap years, i.e. > >> 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2012. > >> > >> So it all works out. Is this supposed to continue, or are there any > >> plans to include leap seconds? Right now, I'd prefer not to. > > > > I do not believe information on leap seconds is part of the timezone data= > , > > so there is nowhere to get this information from as far as I know. > > > > I think leap seconds are just to keep midnight at midnight and the > > historical effect of them is so small as to be generally irrelevant and > > is hence ignored. > > > > -- > > Len Sorensen > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > --=20 > William Porquet, M.A. =E2=98=A8 mailto:william-HPpJ5Ac2/Hg at public.gmane.org =E2=98=A8 http://ww= > w.2038.org/ > =E2=80=9CLuck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.=E2=80=9D = > - Lucius > Ann=C3=A6us Seneca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Bill Duncan, bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org +1 416 697-9315 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 14 23:21:27 2013 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:21:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: References: <1358193075.99821.YahooMailNeo@web120806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1358195217.62304.YahooMailNeo@web120805.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1358197700.15754.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1358205687.15182.YahooMailNeo@web120802.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >Yep, they've had 3 outages in about a year. > > >>Note that with a?load?balancer (nginx/wahtever) you don't need to reassign IPs since it's not a "master/slave" or stand-by solution; all servers are online with their own IP/DNS name and the LB distributes the load and if one goes down the node gets out of rotation (no traffic goes to it). It's much much better imho to not have different roles (master/slave), changing IPs, split brain and timeout/response time problems and?just?have the same single configuration in the same one server image that can be spun in a minute. Of course now the LB is a single point of failure. >> >> >> > > >Yes, it is the LB that is the problem, how do you deal with that ? With more of everything of course! ?https://twitter.com/DEVOPS_BORAT/status/274366602252804096 A bit more seriously, it depends on how much money/time you?want?to spend and what's the target maximum downtime you can afford. For truly no-SPF note that you'd also need a duplicate of everything in a different data centre in a very different location or possibly provider, so it depends where it makes sense to stop. For the LB an imperfect solution is to have 2 or more with different DNS entries, or go with the master/slave option I criticized a minute ago. Note that a LB is a single simple app so unlike regular servers it's?going?to be much more reliable and won't have out-of-memory?problems, high disk I/O issues, buggy software problems etc, basically you are risking a hard hardware failure (power supply or disk typically) which happens "once every few years" (pulled that out of the air). For a web site with two nodes, this can be acceptable. Or you can close your eyes and trust the "high availability" of the LB provided by AWS/Rackspace. Cheers, --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com > > > > > > >Dave? >Cheers, >>? >>--------------------- >>Fernando Duran >>http://www.fduran.com >> >>> >>>Dave >>> >>> >>>Dave Cramer >>> >>> >>>On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Fernando Duran wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>________________________________ >>>>> From: Dave Cramer >>>>>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>>>>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:58:55 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Well I don't want to use a single provider such as amazon. Which makes things more difficult. >>>> >>>>More difficult how? if it's because you're more?dependent of a?particular?provider/solution?I?understand.? >>>> >>>> >>>>Cheers, >>>> >>>> >>>>--------------------- >>>>Fernando Duran >>>>http://www.fduran.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>So the problem is essentially how to duplicate their elastic ip's >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dave Cramer >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Fernando Duran wrote: >>>>> >>>>>If the application is HTTP a relatively simple solution is to use nginx as a load balancer?http://blog.jsdelivr.com/2013/01/nginx-load-balancing-basics.html plus some hearbeat/monitoring to detect/alert when a node goes down. >>>>>> >>>>>>High availability is an excellent area to learn about networking/scripting/trade-off decisions etc but it's very hard to get right, esp. the first time. I think is very worth it using the cloud provider's solutions, like Amazon's (or Rackspace's) load balancers and autoscaling. >>>>>> >>>>>>--------------------- >>>>>>Fernando Duran >>>>>>http://www.fduran.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>________________________________ >>>>>>> From: Dave Cramer >>>>>>>To: tlug at ss.org >>>>>>>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 8:57:39 AM >>>>>>>Subject: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of servers and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to switch make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if that machine fails ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>DNS round robin doesn't exactly work. I have a very limited understanding of BGP is it possible to do without BGP ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Dave Cramer >>>>>>> >>>>>>>? >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>>>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>>>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>? >>>>-- >>>>The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > >? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 03:08:13 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 22:08:13 -0500 Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> On 13-01-14 06:10 PM, Bill Duncan wrote: > The whole point I believe, is to insert them in there *without* accounting > for it. Depends on what you're doing. Yes, the wall clock needs to stand still for a second to keep up with Earth's rotation, but the timer that tells me how long a process is running needs to keep running during a leap second. If I ask how much time has elapsed since 1 January 1970 the 'date' command appears to give the wrong answer by not counting the leap seconds. Does it matter? Depends on what you're doing, and how accurate you need to be. --Bob. Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting On 13-01-14 06:10 PM, Bill Duncan wrote: > The whole point I believe, is to insert them in there *without* accounting > for it. If you think about it, if the userland programs added the seconds > in there, then you wouldn't have accomplished anything. eg. 43years + N > seconds would still be just that.. 43 years + N seconds. > > The leap seconds are "inserterted" while clocks are effectively standing > still for an extra second, so date and their userland ilk will not know > about it.. > > Cheers. > > [William Porquet said:] >> IIRC, leap-seconds are added as needed by an independent origanization >> to account for the slight lag of the earth's rotation around the sun. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap-second#Insertion_of_leap_seconds >> >> Cheers, >> W. >> >> On 14 January 2013 17:23, Lennart Sorensen w= >> rote: >>> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 05:19:15PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: >>>> I'm not complaining, because I prefer it that way, but I just want to >>>> check. First, let's get the number of seconds between 1970/01/01 and >>>> 2013/01/01, i.e. exactly 43 years. >>>> >>>> [d531][waltdnes][~] date +%s -u -d 2013-01-01 >>>> 1356998400 >>>> >>>> Next, divide by 86,400 (number of seconds in a day. >>>> >>>> [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 1356998400 / 86400 )) >>>> 15706 >>>> >>>> And confirm that this is an exact division with zero remainder. >>>> >>>> [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 15706 * 86400 )) >>>> 1356998400 >>>> >>>> Divide 15706 days by 365 >>>> >>>> [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 15706 / 365 )) >>>> 43 >>>> >>>> Multiply by 365 to check the remainder >>>> >>>> [d531][waltdnes][~] echo $(( 43 * 365 )) >>>> 15695 >>>> >>>> 15706 - 15695 =3D 11. This is due to 11 intervening leap years, i.e. >>>> 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2012. >>>> >>>> So it all works out. Is this supposed to continue, or are there any >>>> plans to include leap seconds? Right now, I'd prefer not to. >>> I do not believe information on leap seconds is part of the timezone data= >> , >>> so there is nowhere to get this information from as far as I know. >>> >>> I think leap seconds are just to keep midnight at midnight and the >>> historical effect of them is so small as to be generally irrelevant and >>> is hence ignored. >>> >>> -- >>> Len Sorensen >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> >> --=20 >> William Porquet, M.A. =E2=98=A8 mailto:william-HPpJ5Ac2/Hg at public.gmane.org =E2=98=A8 http://ww= >> w.2038.org/ >> =E2=80=9CLuck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.=E2=80=9D = >> - Lucius >> Ann=C3=A6us Seneca >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 16:36:50 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:36:50 -0500 Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: <50F4C81D.7000609-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> Message-ID: <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:08:13PM -0500, Bob Jonkman wrote: > Depends on what you're doing. Yes, the wall clock needs to stand still > for a second to keep up with Earth's rotation, but the timer that tells > me how long a process is running needs to keep running during a leap > second. If I ask how much time has elapsed since 1 January 1970 the > 'date' command appears to give the wrong answer by not counting the leap > seconds. > > Does it matter? Depends on what you're doing, and how accurate you need > to be. Well as far as I know the decision has been that unix timstamps do not account for leap seconds. So if you happen to care, you can't use unix timestamps without additional information and adjusting. Most things don't care, so keeping unix timestamps simple makes sense. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 17:17:24 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:17:24 -0500 Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: <20130115163650.GN1769-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:08:13PM -0500, Bob Jonkman wrote: >> Depends on what you're doing. Yes, the wall clock needs to stand still >> for a second to keep up with Earth's rotation, but the timer that tells >> me how long a process is running needs to keep running during a leap >> second. If I ask how much time has elapsed since 1 January 1970 the >> 'date' command appears to give the wrong answer by not counting the leap >> seconds. >> >> Does it matter? Depends on what you're doing, and how accurate you need >> to be. > > Well as far as I know the decision has been that unix timstamps do > not account for leap seconds. So if you happen to care, you can't use > unix timestamps without additional information and adjusting. Most things > don't care, so keeping unix timestamps simple makes sense. That being said, you should be able to figure out how many leap seconds have occurred based on a given UNIX timestamp. Actually, there's a pretty simple table: Regrettably, it seems like some manual work to extract the data from there; it would be nice to have something like the TZ database for leap seconds. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 15 18:55:10 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:55:10 -0500 Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130115185510.GO1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 12:17:24PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > That being said, you should be able to figure out how many leap seconds have > occurred based on a given UNIX timestamp. > > Actually, there's a pretty simple table: > > > Regrettably, it seems like some manual work to extract the data from > there; it would > be nice to have something like the TZ database for leap seconds. Of course that would mean updating the tz database everytime it is decided a leap second should be added. And is it really timezone related or does it belong somewhere else? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 06:36:18 2013 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric B) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 01:36:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: <20130115163650.GN1769-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2013, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:08:13PM -0500, Bob Jonkman wrote: > > Depends on what you're doing. Yes, the wall clock needs to stand still > > for a second to keep up with Earth's rotation, but the timer that tells > > me how long a process is running needs to keep running during a leap > > second. If I ask how much time has elapsed since 1 January 1970 the > > 'date' command appears to give the wrong answer by not counting the leap > > seconds. > > > > Does it matter? Depends on what you're doing, and how accurate you need > > to be. > > Well as far as I know the decision has been that unix timstamps do > not account for leap seconds. So if you happen to care, you can't use > unix timestamps without additional information and adjusting. Most things > don't care, so keeping unix timestamps simple makes sense. Yes, unix timestamps do not account for leap seconds, BUT that is inconsistent with the 'man date' documentation. $ man date ... %s seconds since 1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC UTC has a specific scientific meaning which includes leap seconds. UTC is not linear. Therefore the difference between two UTC timestamps must include leap seconds. If you ask how many seconds have elapsed since 1 January 1970 UTC, the unix 'date' command gives the wrong answer. Simple solution: fix the man page. ie: %s seconds since 1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC ignoring leap seconds -- Eric B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 16 19:59:08 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 14:59:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Eric B | Yes, unix timestamps do not account for leap seconds, BUT | that is inconsistent with the 'man date' documentation. On my Fedora 17 system, time(2) says NOTES POSIX.1 defines seconds since the Epoch as a value to be interpreted as the number of seconds between a specified time and the Epoch, according to a formula for conversion from UTC equivalent to conversion on the naive basis that leap seconds are ignored and all years divisible by 4 are leap years. This value is not the same as the actual number of seconds between the time and the Epoch, because of leap seconds and because clocks are not required to be synchronised to a standard refer- ence. The intention is that the interpretation of seconds since the Epoch values be consistent; see POSIX.1 Annex B 2.2.2 for further rationale. That leap year rule is wrong since years divisible by 100 but not 400 are not leap years. We'll see in 2100 (if we make it past 2038). Actually, if you look up POSIX.1 from 2004 and go to 4.14 "Seconds Since the Epoch", you will see that they do handle centuries correctly. One scary sentence: How any changes to the value of seconds since the Epoch are made to align to a desired relationship with the current actual time is implementation-defined. As represented in seconds since the Epoch, each and every day shall be accounted for by exactly 86400 seconds. So there is no leeway to make some days a second longer. Anyway, here is their formula: tm_sec + tm_min*60 + tm_hour*3600 + tm_yday*86400 + (tm_year-70)*31536000 + ((tm_year-69)/4)*86400 - ((tm_year-1)/100)*86400 + ((tm_year+299)/400)*86400 I'd have written that with smaller, more understandable constants: tm_sec + 60 * (tm_min + 60 * (tm_hour + 24 * (tm_yday + 365 * (tm_year-70) + (tm_year-69)/4 - (tm_year-1)/100 + (tm_year+299)/400))) tm_year is years since 1900. It would be better if it were just "year". Then more constants would be understandable: tm_sec + 60 * (tm_min + 60 * (tm_hour + 24 * (tm_yday + 365 * (tm_year-1970) + (tm_year-1969)/4 - (tm_year-1901)/100 + (tm_year-1601)/400))) Clearly all leap years before the Epoch don't count, but ones after do. Years that are multiples of 4 are leap years (UNLESS they are multiples of 100 (UNLESS they are multiples of 400)). A leap year delays the start of subsequent years by one day. 1969 is the year after the last multiple of 4 before the epoch. 1901 is the year after the last multiple of 100 before the epoch. 1601 is the year after the last multiple of 400 before the epoch -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 02:42:22 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 21:42:22 -0500 Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130117024222.GB26503@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 02:59:08PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > Clearly all leap years before the Epoch don't count, but ones after do. > Years that are multiples of 4 are leap years (UNLESS they are multiples > of 100 (UNLESS they are multiples of 400)). A leap year delays the > start of subsequent years by one day. > 1969 is the year after the last multiple of 4 before the epoch. > 1901 is the year after the last multiple of 100 before the epoch. > 1601 is the year after the last multiple of 400 before the epoch My quick-n-dirty leap-year algorithm uses bash integer division. Here's pseudocode * LEAPYR = FALSE * if ( YYYY mod 100 = 0 ) then YYYY = ( YYYY / 100 ) * if ( YYYY mod 4 = 0 ) then LEAPYR = TRUE Note that the 2nd line converts 1700 to 17, 1800 to 18, 1900 to 19, and 2000 to 20. Then it is safe to blindly prceed with the test for whole-number-multiple-of-4. Here's bash code... zyear=${xyear} scratch=$(( ${xyear} / 100 )) if [ $(( ${scratch} * 100 )) -eq ${zyear} ]; then zyear=${scratch} fi leap_year=0 scratch=$(( ${zyear} / 4 )) if [ $(( ${scratch} * 4 )) -eq ${zyear} ]; then leap_year=1 fi -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 02:49:13 2013 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 21:49:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: <20130117024222.GB26503-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130117024222.GB26503@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2013, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 02:59:08PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > >> Clearly all leap years before the Epoch don't count, but ones after do. >> Years that are multiples of 4 are leap years (UNLESS they are multiples >> of 100 (UNLESS they are multiples of 400)). A leap year delays the >> start of subsequent years by one day. >> 1969 is the year after the last multiple of 4 before the epoch. >> 1901 is the year after the last multiple of 100 before the epoch. >> 1601 is the year after the last multiple of 400 before the epoch > > My quick-n-dirty leap-year algorithm uses bash integer division. > Here's pseudocode > > * LEAPYR = FALSE > * if ( YYYY mod 100 = 0 ) then YYYY = ( YYYY / 100 ) > * if ( YYYY mod 4 = 0 ) then LEAPYR = TRUE > > Note that the 2nd line converts 1700 to 17, 1800 to 18, 1900 to 19, > and 2000 to 20. Then it is safe to blindly prceed with the test for > whole-number-multiple-of-4. > > Here's bash code... > > zyear=${xyear} > scratch=$(( ${xyear} / 100 )) > if [ $(( ${scratch} * 100 )) -eq ${zyear} ]; then > zyear=${scratch} > fi > leap_year=0 > scratch=$(( ${zyear} / 4 )) > if [ $(( ${scratch} * 4 )) -eq ${zyear} ]; then > leap_year=1 > fi I use either of these functions. The second one is faster and portable even to the Bourne shell: is_leap_year() { [ $(( $1 % 4 )) -eq 0 ] && [ $(( $1 % 100 )) -ne 0 ] || [ $(( $1 % 400 )) -eq 0 ] } is_leap_year() { #@ USAGE: is_leap_year [year] ily_year=${1:-`date +%Y`} case $ily_year in *0[48] |\ *[2468][048] |\ *[13579][26] |\ *[02468][048]00 |\ *[13579][26]00 ) _IS_LEAP_YEAR=1 return 0 ;; *) _IS_LEAP_YEAR=0 return 1 ;; esac } $ is_leap_year 2012 && echo Yes || echo No Yes $ is_leap_year 2013 && echo Yes || echo No No -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 16:58:39 2013 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric B) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:58:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: <50F6B55B.6040800-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50F6B55B.6040800@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jan 2013, David Collier-Brown wrote: > On 01/16/2013 01:36 AM, Eric B wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Jan 2013, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:08:13PM -0500, Bob Jonkman wrote: > >>> Depends on what you're doing. Yes, the wall clock needs to stand still > >>> for a second to keep up with Earth's rotation, but the timer that tells > >>> me how long a process is running needs to keep running during a leap > >>> second. If I ask how much time has elapsed since 1 January 1970 the > >>> 'date' command appears to give the wrong answer by not counting the leap > >>> seconds. > >>> > >>> Does it matter? Depends on what you're doing, and how accurate you need > >>> to be. > >> Well as far as I know the decision has been that unix timstamps do > >> not account for leap seconds. So if you happen to care, you can't use > >> unix timestamps without additional information and adjusting. Most things > >> don't care, so keeping unix timestamps simple makes sense. > > Yes, unix timestamps do not account for leap seconds, BUT > > that is inconsistent with the 'man date' documentation. > > > > $ man date > > ... > > %s seconds since 1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC > > > > UTC has a specific scientific meaning which includes leap > > seconds. UTC is not linear. > > Therefore the difference between two UTC timestamps must > > include leap seconds. > > > > If you ask how many seconds have elapsed since 1 January 1970 UTC, > > the unix 'date' command gives the wrong answer. > > > > Simple solution: fix the man page. > > ie: > > %s seconds since 1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC ignoring leap seconds > > > > -- > > Eric B. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > My leaky memory says Solaris and at least HP/UX *include* leap seconds. Solaris 'date' (SunOS 5.9) doesn't support '%s'. Where did you come across leap seconds? > Posix should say (but only uses the "UTC" wording). Wikipedia describes > the behaviour as excluding leap-seconds, with more discussion in the > "talk" page, and discusses Unix adjusting the "epoch" to get the > leap-seconds right in %s... Adjusting the epoch seems ugly; it should be a fixed point in time. -- Eric B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 21:26:07 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:26:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50F6B55B.6040800@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Eric B | On Wed, 16 Jan 2013, David Collier-Brown wrote: Of course only you saw this since the list is still censoring DCB. I presume that he CCed you. | Adjusting the epoch seems ugly; it should be a fixed point in | time. I absolutely agree. So when should the epoch start? 23 October 4004BC? Do we know the date of creation, to the second? Of course POSIX says the Epock starts in Nixon's reign. (Who remembers the Nixon Switch in UNIX?) Once UNIX systems get into relatively different frames of reference, we'll have to rethink this. Time starts to look like GIT versions with branches and awkward merges. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 21:28:33 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:28:33 -0500 Subject: SSD on desktop linux In-Reply-To: <20130112002046.GA28684-Cpl6C+benBZfq8cQ1yknNg@public.gmane.org> References: <20130112002046.GA28684@yam.nerd.cx> Message-ID: <50F86D01.1090009@rogers.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > This fall I decided to spend a little (very little - $60) on a small SSD > to act as my primary hard drive - for /, /tmp, /var /usr - basically > everything except /home. I had heard a lot about them, and though my > motherboard does not support SATA3, it does support SATA2, so I thought > it might be worth a try. At worst, I knew I could put it into an old, > enfeebled laptop that would then be rejuvenated by the new drive and the > installation of linux Did you also put swap on the SSD? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 17 22:35:11 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 17:35:11 -0500 Subject: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds? In-Reply-To: References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50F6B55B.6040800@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 4:26 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Eric B > > | On Wed, 16 Jan 2013, David Collier-Brown wrote: > > Of course only you saw this since the list is still censoring DCB. I > presume that he CCed you. > > | Adjusting the epoch seems ugly; it should be a fixed point in > | time. > > I absolutely agree. > > So when should the epoch start? 23 October 4004BC? Do we know the date of > creation, to the second? Of course POSIX says the Epock starts in > Nixon's reign. (Who remembers the Nixon Switch in UNIX?) > > Once UNIX systems get into relatively different frames of reference, > we'll have to rethink this. Time starts to look like GIT versions > with branches and awkward merges. I'm pretty happy with the notion of the epoch starting in 1970. There's a fairly easy remapping between POSIX timestamps and strict UTC; one can essentially step ahead by 6 month increments and see at which times leap second adjustments took place. In effect, I'd prefer that POSIX be "strictly seconds since 1970, without adjustments", and then use that as the basis for computing UTC or UT1. In effect, this is an equivalent to Julian Days, which are a strict "we keep counting" measure of days since Jan 1 4713 BC. I actually would suppose that I'd prefer COBOL / "ANSI Days" to Julian Days, as the epoch for that is Jan 1, 1601, which is conveniently nearer in history, with somewhat rounder numbers. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 00:19:32 2013 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 19:19:32 -0500 Subject: SSD on desktop linux In-Reply-To: <50F86D01.1090009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130112002046.GA28684@yam.nerd.cx> <50F86D01.1090009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130118001932.GA15875@amber> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 04:28:33PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Did you also put swap on the SSD? My SSD has three partitions: /boot, swap, and /. When it boots up it reads /var/tmp/portage into RAM as well, so all compiling is done on a ramdisk. It's all wicked fast. I keep datafiles on attached 1TB drives. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 03:45:16 2013 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:45:16 -0500 Subject: SSD on desktop linux In-Reply-To: <50F86D01.1090009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130112002046.GA28684@yam.nerd.cx> <50F86D01.1090009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130118034516.GA21537@yam.nerd.cx> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 04:28:33PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >>This fall I decided to spend a little (very little - $60) on a small SSD >>to act as my primary hard drive - for /, /tmp, /var /usr - basically >>everything except /home. I had heard a lot about them, and though my >>motherboard does not support SATA3, it does support SATA2, so I thought >>it might be worth a try. At worst, I knew I could put it into an old, >>enfeebled laptop that would then be rejuvenated by the new drive and the >>installation of linux > >Did you also put swap on the SSD? I did - it makes up for a smallish amount of RAM very nicely. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william-HPpJ5Ac2/Hg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 05:49:12 2013 From: william-HPpJ5Ac2/Hg at public.gmane.org (William Porquet) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 00:49:12 -0500 Subject: SSD on desktop linux In-Reply-To: <20130118034516.GA21537-Cpl6C+benBZfq8cQ1yknNg@public.gmane.org> References: <20130112002046.GA28684@yam.nerd.cx> <50F86D01.1090009@rogers.com> <20130118034516.GA21537@yam.nerd.cx> Message-ID: I recall installing Linux on SSDs and recall that using them for a swap partition was discouraged in the docs due to the finite number of writes possible on the medium. Thoughts? W. On Jan 17, 2013 10:44 PM, "William O'Higgins Witteman" < william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 04:28:33PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > >William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > >>This fall I decided to spend a little (very little - $60) on a small SSD > >>to act as my primary hard drive - for /, /tmp, /var /usr - basically > >>everything except /home. I had heard a lot about them, and though my > >>motherboard does not support SATA3, it does support SATA2, so I thought > >>it might be worth a try. At worst, I knew I could put it into an old, > >>enfeebled laptop that would then be rejuvenated by the new drive and the > >>installation of linux > > > >Did you also put swap on the SSD? > > I did - it makes up for a smallish amount of RAM very nicely. > -- > > yours, > > William > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 16:28:21 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 11:28:21 -0500 Subject: SSD on desktop linux In-Reply-To: References: <20130112002046.GA28684@yam.nerd.cx> <50F86D01.1090009@rogers.com> <20130118034516.GA21537@yam.nerd.cx> Message-ID: <20130118162821.GP1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:49:12AM -0500, William Porquet wrote: > I recall installing Linux on SSDs and recall that using them for a swap > partition was discouraged in the docs due to the finite number of writes > possible on the medium. > > Thoughts? Well in general you want to avoid swapping, but if you are going to swap having it be fast is nice. USB keys are a different story. They often have awful wear leveling. Proper SSDs generally do better. Of course if you actually write swap a lot, then you are trying to do something your machine isn't equiped for. Buy more ram. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 16:30:22 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:30:22 +0400 Subject: changing youtube video Message-ID: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> You here were so kind to help me enormous number of times. I met with this nice movie on youtube concerning science in general and thinking, close to philosophy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&list=PL25D581BA7A64EF48&v=JnWyPIzTOTw Anyone could advise how to add subtitles there in another language? Or, better, how to replace the sound track? On Linux, of course. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 16:31:45 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 11:31:45 -0500 Subject: SSD on desktop linux In-Reply-To: <20130118162821.GP1769-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130112002046.GA28684@yam.nerd.cx> <50F86D01.1090009@rogers.com> <20130118034516.GA21537@yam.nerd.cx> <20130118162821.GP1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <50F978F1.4000305@utoronto.ca> On 13-01-18 11:28 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well in general you want to avoid swapping, but if you are going to swap > having it be fast is nice. > > USB keys are a different story. They often have awful wear leveling. > Proper SSDs generally do better. > > Of course if you actually write swap a lot, then you are trying to do > something your machine isn't equiped for. Buy more ram. That and put /tmp and /var/tmp on virtual tmpfs filesystems that use said RAM. Quite an improvement, even if you are stuck with spinning disks for most other storage. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 18 18:40:16 2013 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddymills-gmail) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:40:16 -0500 Subject: SSD on desktop linux In-Reply-To: <50F978F1.4000305-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130112002046.GA28684@yam.nerd.cx> <50F86D01.1090009@rogers.com> <20130118034516.GA21537@yam.nerd.cx> <20130118162821.GP1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50F978F1.4000305@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <50F99710.7020302@gmail.com> I have been using SSD on Xubuntu laptops for a few months. Basic setup. I just changed the EXT4 commits to run less often, to save wear+tear on the SSDs. I also installed W7 on a laptop with SSD. Same thing. No issues. Teddy On 1/18/2013 11:31 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 13-01-18 11:28 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Well in general you want to avoid swapping, but if you are going to swap >> having it be fast is nice. >> >> USB keys are a different story. They often have awful wear leveling. >> Proper SSDs generally do better. >> >> Of course if you actually write swap a lot, then you are trying to do >> something your machine isn't equiped for. Buy more ram. > That and put /tmp and /var/tmp on virtual tmpfs filesystems that use > said RAM. Quite an improvement, even if you are stuck with spinning > disks for most other storage. > > Jamon > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 07:25:10 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 02:25:10 -0500 Subject: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <50F9789E.7000206-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130119072510.GA23260@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 08:30:22PM +0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > You here were so kind to help me enormous number of times. > > I met with this nice movie on youtube concerning science in general > and thinking, close to philosophy: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&list=PL25D581BA7A64EF48&v=JnWyPIzTOTw > > Anyone could advise how to add subtitles there in another language? > > Or, better, how to replace the sound track? > > On Linux, of course. Not sure about subtitle, which, I think, is separate file. The only change that I do on YouTube videos is to normalize volume. I haven't found a way to change the volume "in-place". So, I extract the audio to .wav, normalize the volume, and reassemble them again. Commands are ffmpeg -i xxx.mp4 xxx.wav normalize xxx.wav ffmpeg -i xxx.mp4 -i xxx.wav -vcodec copy -ab 110k xxx2.mp4 -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 16:32:27 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 11:32:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <50F9789E.7000206-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Zbigniew Koziol | I met with this nice movie on youtube concerning science in general and | thinking, close to philosophy: | | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&list=PL25D581BA7A64EF48&v=JnWyPIzTOTw "The Privileged Planet: How Our Place in the Cosmos is Designed for Discovery is a book by Guillermo Gonzalez and Jay Richards which claims scientific evidence for intelligent design. Both Gonzalez and Richards are associated with the Discovery Institute, identified with the intelligent design movement; Gonzalez works as a senior fellow of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture." Yeah, it is philosophy: Intelligent Design, the current version of Creationism. Narration by John Rhys-Davies certainly adds gravitas. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 18:35:35 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 13:35:35 -0500 Subject: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <50F9789E.7000206-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50FAE777.1070304@ve3syb.ca> On 13-01-18 11:30 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > I met with this nice movie on youtube concerning science in general and > thinking, close to philosophy: [snip] > Anyone could advise how to add subtitles there in another language? > > Or, better, how to replace the sound track? I still find I do my video editing in Windows as I have yet to find a video editor I'm happy with that can handle the video modes I want to edit, is stable, and has some of the features I'm used to having. You could look at mplayer separate the audio and video. The main video editors for Linux are Kino, LiVES, Open Movie Editor, and Cinelerra. IIRC, there is another one that is for KDE but I don't remember the name as I use Gnome. The most promising video editor coming soon is Lightworks (but that won't help you now). The Windows version is available and a Linux beta is coming soon. See http://www.lwks.com/ for more details. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 18:54:25 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 13:54:25 -0500 Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? Message-ID: Hey folks, My stereo receiver just blew (wrong fuse!). I am thinking about replacing it with a simple embedded linux system that can - play digital soundfiles stored on some kind of local hard drive - be controlled from other computers in the house, and preferably also from our android tablet - access files on shared disk drives that live on other computers on the LAN - switch inputs so e.g. it's possible to play records from the turntable Has anyone ever done anything like that? Any suggestions? Thanks much, Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 19:00:27 2013 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:00:27 -0500 Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50FAED4B.2070009@rogers.com> On 13-01-19 01:54 PM, Matt Price wrote: > Hey folks, > > My stereo receiver just blew (wrong fuse!). I am thinking about > replacing it with a simple embedded linux system that can > - play digital soundfiles stored on some kind of local hard drive > - be controlled from other computers in the house, and preferably also > from our android tablet > - access files on shared disk drives that live on other computers on the LAN > - switch inputs so e.g. it's possible to play records from the turntable > > Has anyone ever done anything like that? Any suggestions? > > You would still need an amplifier. -- Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 19:32:29 2013 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:32:29 -0500 Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: <50FAED4B.2070009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50FAED4B.2070009@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 19 January 2013 14:00, Stephen wrote: > You would still need an amplifier. Or amplified PC speakers. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 19:54:05 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:54:05 -0500 Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: <50FAED4B.2070009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50FAED4B.2070009@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Stephen wrote: > On 13-01-19 01:54 PM, Matt Price wrote: >> >> Hey folks, >> >> My stereo receiver just blew (wrong fuse!). I am thinking about >> replacing it with a simple embedded linux system that can >> - play digital soundfiles stored on some kind of local hard drive >> - be controlled from other computers in the house, and preferably also >> from our android tablet >> - access files on shared disk drives that live on other computers on the >> LAN >> - switch inputs so e.g. it's possible to play records from the turntable >> >> Has anyone ever done anything like that? Any suggestions? >> >> > You would still need an amplifier. And a 3.5mm to stereo RCA conversion cable like -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 20:12:46 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:12:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [hacklab-discussion] building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Matt Price | My stereo receiver just blew (wrong fuse!). I am thinking about | replacing it with a simple embedded linux system that can Receivers are cheap. To me, th big deal is all the furniture arranged to make the stero system "work". Of course I'm thinking of two large speakers, the arrangement favoured decades ago (when we arranged ours). Perhaps you have small speakers + a subwoofer, a different set of furnishing constraints. Do you sit in one spot, bathed in optimally balanced stereo sound from serious speakers? Or, like me, never end up in the stereo sweet spot and actually use headphones and speakers that are set up for video systems or computers? | - play digital soundfiles stored on some kind of local hard drive | - be controlled from other computers in the house, and preferably also | from our android tablet | - access files on shared disk drives that live on other computers on the LAN In theory DNLA and similar technology should make that easy. Windows boxes in my household seem to see things on my MythTV boxes. I've never looked into how that was done because I've not wanted to use it. Many Linux systems should be suitable, but not off the rack. I'd bet a RaspBerry Pi hardware could do the job (stereo-only unless you use HDMI). They are cheap, small, and take low power so you could even distribute them in multiple rooms. I'm not up on software, but I'd look at XBMC, MythTV, and other projects. Consider whether you need a monitor on the system. Monitors make for nice interfaces but they add a lot of bulk and power consumption. Android tablets *might* be a reasonable solution. Too bad there are not many Linux tablets. Avoid anything with a fan -- that negatively impacts a listening environment. Linux boxes are not good at driving serious speakers. You need an amplifier if you want to do that. Receivers are usually cheaper than amps (lower end) and include an amp (and "pre-amp", if you want to get technical). | - switch inputs so e.g. it's possible to play records from the turntable Turntables are special. You need something called RIAA Equalization. Pre-amps or Receivers with "phono" inputs do that. I'm guessing that many new receivers come without phono in. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 21:49:57 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:49:57 -0500 Subject: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Zbigniew Koziol > > | I met with this nice movie on youtube concerning science in general and > | thinking, close to philosophy: > | > | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&list=PL25D581BA7A64EF48&v=JnWyPIzTOTw > > > > "The Privileged Planet: How Our Place in the Cosmos is Designed > for Discovery is a book by Guillermo Gonzalez and Jay Richards > which claims scientific evidence for intelligent design. Both > Gonzalez and Richards are associated with the Discovery Institute, > identified with the intelligent design movement; Gonzalez works as > a senior fellow of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science > and Culture." > > Yeah, it is philosophy: Intelligent Design, the current version of > Creationism. > > Narration by John Rhys-Davies certainly adds gravitas. > IIRC, that Discovery Institute was exposed in a PBS Nova about some people trying to introduce "Intelligent Design" into schools in Dover, Pennsylvania. The also had a book called "Of Pandas and People", supposedly about intelligent design. This case went to court, where the book was shown to be originally about creationism and they did a sloppy cut 'n paste job to turn it into intelligent design. They also misquoted a scientist to claim the opposite of what he actually said. Also, some of the people trying to bring ID to that school system were charged with perjury. Bottom line, Intelligent Design is about the exact same stuff as creationism, but with a different label. This means, like creationism, it's absolute nonsense. BTW, did you know there are "museums" in the U.S. that show humans and dinosaurs as contemporaries. That is the sort of absolute garbage that comes from religious beliefs. You have to be delusional to believe that nonsense. No ifs ands or buts. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tehowe-lJUvcdpYuyfIEIWhD7vHkg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 22:00:31 2013 From: tehowe-lJUvcdpYuyfIEIWhD7vHkg at public.gmane.org (Todd Howe) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:00:31 -0500 Subject: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <50FAE777.1070304-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FAE777.1070304@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <1358632831.1765.2.camel@Nokia-N900> KDEnlive works great in Gnome, it's the best editor I've found, vapourware aside. :) ----- Original message ----- > On 13-01-18 11:30 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > I met with this nice movie on youtube concerning science in general and > > thinking, close to philosophy: > [snip] > > Anyone could advise how to add subtitles there in another language? > > > > Or, better, how to replace the sound track? > > I still find I do my video editing in Windows as I have yet to find a > video editor I'm happy with that can handle the video modes I want to > edit, is stable, and has some of the features I'm used to having. > > You could look at mplayer separate the audio and video. The main video > editors for Linux are Kino, LiVES, Open Movie Editor, and Cinelerra. > IIRC, there is another one that is for KDE but I don't remember the name > as I use Gnome. > > The most promising video editor coming soon is Lightworks (but that > won't help you now). The Windows version is available and a Linux beta > is coming soon. See http://www.lwks.com/ for more details. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 22:07:33 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:07:33 -0500 Subject: cyanogenmod and Telus Samsung galaxy s ii x Message-ID: <20130119220733.GA18570@watson-wilson.ca> Greetings, I have not been able to get a Samsung galaxy s ii x, from koodo and unlocked, in to so called recovery mode. I'm trying to install Cyanogenmod. A search indicates that some combination of the volume buttons and the power button should start recovery mode, but so far everything I try has failed. Has anyone done this successfully? -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 19 22:56:15 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:56:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <50FB1505.5010105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | BTW, did you know there are "museums" in the U.S. that show humans and | dinosaurs as contemporaries. That is the sort of absolute garbage that comes | from religious beliefs. You have to be delusional to believe that nonsense. | No ifs ands or buts. Actually, it is caused by using an unsigned integral type for time_t and using 4004BC as your Epoch. At least they were using "saturating" arithmetic. In saturating arithmetic, an unsigned calculation that would underflow yields 0 and a calculation that would overflow yields MAXINT. Most computer adders "wrap around" on underflow or overflow instead. There's no telling when those darned dinosaurs would show up if you used conventional modular arithmethic on 32-bit time_t. Lets say you used 64-bit unsigned time_t instead of signed 32-bit time_t. Epoch of 4004 BC vs 1970 AD isn't significant with our accuracy. I'll use the (non-existant!) date 0 AD (1 BC was immediately followed by 1 AD). 65M BC == -2051200190000000 seconds BC = 18444692873519551616 (mod 2^64) = about 584B AD So we'd be safe. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 00:10:48 2013 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:10:48 -0800 Subject: cyanogenmod and Telus Samsung galaxy s ii x In-Reply-To: <20130119220733.GA18570-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130119220733.GA18570@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Hold vol-down and home while it's powering up. Works for my SG2 On Jan 19, 2013 2:08 PM, "Neil Watson" wrote: > Greetings, > > I have not been able to get a Samsung galaxy s ii x, from koodo and > unlocked, in to so called recovery mode. I'm trying to install > Cyanogenmod. A search indicates that some combination of the volume > buttons and the power button should start recovery mode, but so far > everything I try has failed. > > Has anyone done this successfully? > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 00:22:48 2013 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric B) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:22:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: cyanogenmod and Telus Samsung galaxy s ii x In-Reply-To: References: <20130119220733.GA18570@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jan 2013, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hold vol-down and home while it's powering up. Works for my SG2 > On Jan 19, 2013 2:08 PM, "Neil Watson" wrote: That may do a *FACTORY RESET*, with no warning, if you have not flashed the Custom Recovery properly. > > Greetings, > > > > I have not been able to get a Samsung galaxy s ii x, from koodo and > > unlocked, in to so called recovery mode. I'm trying to install > > Cyanogenmod. A search indicates that some combination of the volume > > buttons and the power button should start recovery mode, but so far > > everything I try has failed. > > > > Has anyone done this successfully? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 00:55:39 2013 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:55:39 -0800 Subject: cyanogenmod and Telus Samsung galaxy s ii x In-Reply-To: References: <20130119220733.GA18570@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Since when? That's a option in bootloader menu (home+volup), but even there it's no automatic. Unless Telus is doing something really funky, Home+voldown is ODIN mode. On Jan 19, 2013 4:23 PM, "Eric B" wrote: > On Sat, 19 Jan 2013, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > > Hold vol-down and home while it's powering up. Works for my SG2 > > On Jan 19, 2013 2:08 PM, "Neil Watson" > wrote: > > That may do a *FACTORY RESET*, with no warning, if you have not flashed > the Custom Recovery properly. > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > I have not been able to get a Samsung galaxy s ii x, from koodo and > > > unlocked, in to so called recovery mode. I'm trying to install > > > Cyanogenmod. A search indicates that some combination of the volume > > > buttons and the power button should start recovery mode, but so far > > > everything I try has failed. > > > > > > Has anyone done this successfully? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 05:22:04 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:22:04 +0400 Subject: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <50FB1505.5010105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> First, thanks for all answers. I know the direction, now, regarding technical things. Thanks to all. On 01/20/2013 01:49 AM, James Knott wrote: > [...] > Bottom line, Intelligent Design is about the exact same stuff as > creationism, but with a different label. This means, like > creationism, it's absolute nonsense. > > BTW, did you know there are "museums" in the U.S. that show humans and > dinosaurs as contemporaries. That is the sort of absolute garbage > that comes from religious beliefs. You have to be delusional to > believe that nonsense. No ifs ands or buts. > > James, my own views on physics and understanding this world were always somewhat non-standard. Otherwise why would I need at all to work in physics? If you insist, I do not myself believe in the theory of Darwin. However, the science is not a "do I believe or not". This is a something more. I also at the same time may clearly say: I hate simplifications. And the idea of creationism seems to be one of these. Nethertheless, the idea of anthropic principle (search on Google) has already a good foundations in the philosophy of science. There is were my thinking goes on. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 07:13:51 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:13:51 -0500 Subject: Nixon Switch [was: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds?] In-Reply-To: References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50F6B55B.6040800@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50FB992F.7050000@sobac.com> On 13-01-17 04:26 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Of course POSIX says the Epock starts in > Nixon's reign. (Who remembers the Nixon Switch in UNIX?) This has been intriguing me for days, and my Google-fu is inadequate to the task. What was the Nixon Switch in UNIX? --Bob. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 07:23:51 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 02:23:51 -0500 Subject: cyanogenmod and Telus Samsung galaxy s ii x In-Reply-To: References: <20130119220733.GA18570@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <50FB9B87.7090104@sobac.com> FWIW, on my LG2X I need to remove the battery (power via USB), then hold Vol-Down while powering up to get into the nVidia boot loader. Doing this with the battery installed just gets into ordinary recovery mode. I needed to use the nVidia boot loader to replace the recovery mode loader (Clockwork Mod), for which I could only find a Windows program. And this was separate from (and after) getting root access on the phone. As a result of these contortions I'm looking forward to buying an Ubuntu phone. --Bob. On 13-01-19 07:10 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hold vol-down and home while it's powering up. Works for my SG2 > On Jan 19, 2013 2:08 PM, "Neil Watson" wrote: > >> Greetings, >> >> I have not been able to get a Samsung galaxy s ii x, from koodo and >> unlocked, in to so called recovery mode. I'm trying to install >> Cyanogenmod. A search indicates that some combination of the volume >> buttons and the power button should start recovery mode, but so far >> everything I try has failed. >> >> Has anyone done this successfully? >> >> -- >> Neil Watson >> Linux/UNIX Consultant >> http://watson-wilson.ca >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists >> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From chislon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 08:36:15 2013 From: chislon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Chow, Chislon) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 03:36:15 -0500 Subject: cyanogenmod and Telus Samsung galaxy s ii x In-Reply-To: <20130119220733.GA18570-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130119220733.GA18570@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: I cleaned up a S2X recently and can chip in about this. The easy way to get into recovery is to do so via ADB. Otherwise, the most reliable way to reboot into recovery is to pull the battery and put it back in before performing the key combination. The bootloader should be where it listens for the active vol-down key. You only need to press the power button once to get the device to start booting - no need to hold that button down. You actually don't need to go into recovery right now. The first thing you need to do is to replace/flash the current recovery partition. I also recommend updating to Android 4.0.x from the OTA so you have the newest bootloader and other firmware files before proceeding. The easiest way to flash most Samsung Android phones is through Windows using the low-level Odin factory tool. The S2X is Qualcomm, so it can't use NVFlash, and Samsung Qualcomm devices don't use fastboot via LK bootloader. There's a cross platform tool called Heimdall out there if you want to do everything natively on Linux. Most packages are distributed for use with Odin without any additional modifications. Odin can be dangerous to use and is capable of messing up the bootloader, so be careful with this. For the S2X specifically, I recommend using this toolkit someone has put together here, which fetches everything you need including the drivers, Odin,and modified recovery image for use with Odin. You'll need to enable ADB on the device before proceeding. In your case, it is only necessary to install the recovery image - you do not need to root your firmware, as you will be overwriting it completely: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1650908 On Samsung devices, the typical method is to use Odin to flash a modified recovery boot partition image. Then you can perform changes directly from recovery mode, as you have superuser rights to everything. A heads up on Cyanogenmod on the S2X though. The S2X doesn't have the same level of community support as Nexus and Nexus similar devices. There are odd graphical glitches with some workarounds you will need to be aware of. AOSP browser performance isn't as quick as Samsung's optimized webkit. You also lose the ability to perform touch-to-focus on all AOSP based firmware. There are definite advantages to running the firmware from Koodo/Telus as-is. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 13:34:09 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 08:34:09 -0500 Subject: cyanogenmod and Telus Samsung galaxy s ii x In-Reply-To: References: <20130119220733.GA18570@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20130120133409.GA12081@watson-wilson.ca> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 04:10:48PM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hold vol-down and home while it's powering up. Works for my SG2 The SG2X is different. It has no home key. Vol-down and powering up boots to download mode. It's recovery mode that I can't find. http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s_ii_x_t989d-4468.php -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 15:23:17 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:23:17 -0500 Subject: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <50FB7EFC.2090900-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > James, my own views on physics and understanding this world were > always somewhat non-standard. Otherwise why would I need at all to > work in physics? > > If you insist, I do not myself believe in the theory of Darwin. > However, the science is not a "do I believe or not". This is a > something more. I also at the same time may clearly say: I hate > simplifications. And the idea of creationism seems to be one of these. > > Nethertheless, the idea of anthropic principle (search on Google) has > already a good foundations in the philosophy of science. There is were > my thinking goes on. > In science, theories are supposed to be based on the evidence. So far, that favours Darwin and completely contradicts creationism. Also, I have read of the anthropic principle. One only has to look at quantum mechanics to realize that what's being observed might not be compatible with what we expect, based on our own experiences in the "real" world. Regardless, any claims that intelligent design is science are absolute nonsense. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 15:32:50 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 19:32:50 +0400 Subject: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <50FC0BE5.8050308-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50FC0E22.4060004@gmail.com> On 01/20/2013 07:23 PM, James Knott wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> James, my own views on physics and understanding this world were >> always somewhat non-standard. Otherwise why would I need at all to >> work in physics? >> >> If you insist, I do not myself believe in the theory of Darwin. >> However, the science is not a "do I believe or not". This is a >> something more. I also at the same time may clearly say: I hate >> simplifications. And the idea of creationism seems to be one of these. >> >> Nethertheless, the idea of anthropic principle (search on Google) has >> already a good foundations in the philosophy of science. There is >> were my thinking goes on. >> > > In science, theories are supposed to be based on the evidence. So > far, that favours Darwin and completely contradicts creationism. Also, > I have read of the anthropic principle. One only has to look at > quantum mechanics to realize that what's being observed might not be > compatible with what we expect, based on our own experiences in the > "real" world. > > > Regardless, any claims that intelligent design is science are absolute > nonsense. Did I claim that I support so called Intelligent Design? No. You boy should go to school. Things are not that simple. Eh! > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chislon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 16:54:02 2013 From: chislon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Chow, Chislon) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:54:02 -0500 Subject: cyanogenmod and Telus Samsung galaxy s ii x In-Reply-To: <20130120133409.GA12081-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130119220733.GA18570@watson-wilson.ca> <20130120133409.GA12081@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: The S2X (T989) does have a home key. It's just not used for boot mode selection. The recovery mode hardware shortcut is actually vol + AND - with power (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1858435). I forgot by now. Vol - is for download mode (Odin). In any case, this information is widely available. Good luck. On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 04:10:48PM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> Hold vol-down and home while it's powering up. Works for my SG2 > > > The SG2X is different. It has no home key. Vol-down and powering up > boots to download mode. It's recovery mode that I can't find. > > http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s_ii_x_t989d-4468.php > > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Lmt0BfyYGMw at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 17:11:03 2013 From: sciguy-Lmt0BfyYGMw at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Lmt0BfyYGMw at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 12:11:03 -0500 Subject: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <20130119072510.GA23260-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <20130119072510.GA23260@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: If you have an account on YouTube, there are a few ways: (1) add annotations timed to the dialogue. It's a bit of work, but I'm not aware of a faster method. The balloons need not have "pointers", they are allowed to be boxes, and they can have transparent or semitransparent backgrounds so as not to block out too much of the image. (2) there is supposed to be a dedicated captioning facility that otherwise works, but you need some kind of captioning file uploaded to it with the captions timed with the dialogue. I have not tried it, and have very little idea how it works. Paul > On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 08:30:22PM +0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> You here were so kind to help me enormous number of times. >> >> I met with this nice movie on youtube concerning science in general >> and thinking, close to philosophy: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&list=PL25D581BA7A64EF48&v=JnWyPIzTOTw >> >> Anyone could advise how to add subtitles there in another language? >> >> Or, better, how to replace the sound track? >> >> On Linux, of course. > > Not sure about subtitle, which, I think, is separate file. The only > change that I do on YouTube videos is to normalize volume. I haven't > found a way to change the volume "in-place". So, I extract the audio to > .wav, normalize the volume, and reassemble them again. Commands are > ffmpeg -i xxx.mp4 xxx.wav > normalize xxx.wav > ffmpeg -i xxx.mp4 -i xxx.wav -vcodec copy -ab 110k xxx2.mp4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 20 19:35:08 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 14:35:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Nixon Switch [was: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds?] In-Reply-To: <50FB992F.7050000-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50F6B55B.6040800@rogers.com> <50FB992F.7050000@sobac.com> Message-ID: | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | On 13-01-17 04:26 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Of course POSIX says the Epock starts in | > Nixon's reign. (Who remembers the Nixon Switch in UNIX?) | | This has been intriguing me for days, and my Google-fu is inadequate to | the task. What was the Nixon Switch in UNIX? If you look in the 5th edition manual under ctime(III), you will see The external variable nixonflg if non-zero supersedes daylight and causes daylight time all year round. That's because Nixon changed Daylight Savings Time rules for 1974 and 1975 in response to the 1973 oil crisis. I think that he made it all-year round. I no longer remember how one would set this external variable. It sounds as if the setting were compiled into the library. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 06:20:44 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 01:20:44 -0500 Subject: Nixon Switch [was: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds?] In-Reply-To: References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50F6B55B.6040800@rogers.com> <50FB992F.7050000@sobac.com> Message-ID: <50FCDE3C.5070001@sobac.com> I think that might have been double daylight saving time. I remember standing at the schoolbus stop at 8:00am in pitch blackness... And I see that Dennis Ritchie mentions that as the driver for abandoning DDST. I wonder if Nixon earned any interest on the daylight he saved. --Bob. On 13-01-20 02:35 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > | On 13-01-17 04:26 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | > Of course POSIX says the Epock starts in > | > Nixon's reign. (Who remembers the Nixon Switch in UNIX?) > | > | This has been intriguing me for days, and my Google-fu is inadequate to > | the task. What was the Nixon Switch in UNIX? > > > > If you look in the 5th edition manual under ctime(III), you will see > > The external variable nixonflg if non-zero supersedes daylight > and causes daylight time all year round. > > That's because Nixon changed Daylight Savings Time rules for 1974 and > 1975 in response to the 1973 oil crisis. I think that he made it > all-year round. > > I no longer remember how one would set this external variable. > > > > > It sounds as if the setting were compiled into the library. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 14:48:37 2013 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:48:37 -0500 Subject: Nixon Switch [was: Linux "date" command ignores leap-seconds?] In-Reply-To: <50FCDE3C.5070001-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50F4C81D.7000609@sobac.com> <20130115163650.GN1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50F6B55B.6040800@rogers.com> <50FB992F.7050000@sobac.com> <50FCDE3C.5070001@sobac.com> Message-ID: I think any interest earned by Nixon would have been a matter of "plausible deniability" in accordance with the legacy of his office. ;-) Russell On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > I think that might have been double daylight saving time. I remember > standing at the schoolbus stop at 8:00am in pitch blackness... And I > see that Dennis Ritchie mentions that as the driver for abandoning DDST. > > I wonder if Nixon earned any interest on the daylight he saved. > > --Bob. > > > On 13-01-20 02:35 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > > | On 13-01-17 04:26 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > | > Of course POSIX says the Epock starts in > > | > Nixon's reign. (Who remembers the Nixon Switch in UNIX?) > > | > > | This has been intriguing me for days, and my Google-fu is inadequate to > > | the task. What was the Nixon Switch in UNIX? > > > > < > http://tukg.org/doc/unix/PDP-11/Distributions/research/Dennis_v5/v5man.pdf > > > > > > If you look in the 5th edition manual under ctime(III), you will see > > > > The external variable nixonflg if non-zero supersedes daylight > > and causes daylight time all year round. > > > > That's because Nixon changed Daylight Savings Time rules for 1974 and > > 1975 in response to the 1973 oil crisis. I think that he made it > > all-year round. > > > > I no longer remember how one would set this external variable. > > > > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.folklore.computers/jH6BAi5W1Vo/ZSszNv7NS98J > > > > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.folklore.computers/jH6BAi5W1Vo/Npotf09TXnAJ > > > > > > It sounds as if the setting were compiled into the library. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 21 15:57:21 2013 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 07:57:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud In-Reply-To: References: <1358193075.99821.YahooMailNeo@web120806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1358195217.62304.YahooMailNeo@web120805.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1358197700.15754.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1358783841.25174.YahooMailNeo@web120803.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Here's an article published today where the author using 4 servers instead of having one as load balancer for the other three, in order to avoid the single?point?of failure he sets up the 4 of them as load balancers as well with floating IP address:?http://debian-administration.org/article/683/Redeploying_Debian-Administration.org_... --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com >________________________________ > From: Dave Cramer >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 4:51:33 PM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud > > >Yep, they've had 3 outages in about a year. > > >>Note that with a?load?balancer (nginx/wahtever) you don't need to reassign IPs since it's not a "master/slave" or stand-by solution; all servers are online with their own IP/DNS name and the LB distributes the load and if one goes down the node gets out of rotation (no traffic goes to it). It's much much better imho to not have different roles (master/slave), changing IPs, split brain and timeout/response time problems and?just?have the same single configuration in the same one server image that can be spun in a minute. Of course now the LB is a single point of failure. >> >> >> > > >Yes, it is the LB that is the problem, how do you deal with that ? > > > > > > >Dave? >Cheers, >>? >>--------------------- >>Fernando Duran >>http://www.fduran.com >> >>> >>>Dave >>> >>> >>>Dave Cramer >>> >>> >>>On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Fernando Duran wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>________________________________ >>>>> From: Dave Cramer >>>>>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>>>>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:58:55 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Well I don't want to use a single provider such as amazon. Which makes things more difficult. >>>> >>>>More difficult how? if it's because you're more?dependent of a?particular?provider/solution?I?understand.? >>>> >>>> >>>>Cheers, >>>> >>>> >>>>--------------------- >>>>Fernando Duran >>>>http://www.fduran.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>So the problem is essentially how to duplicate their elastic ip's >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Dave Cramer >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Fernando Duran wrote: >>>>> >>>>>If the application is HTTP a relatively simple solution is to use nginx as a load balancer?http://blog.jsdelivr.com/2013/01/nginx-load-balancing-basics.html plus some hearbeat/monitoring to detect/alert when a node goes down. >>>>>> >>>>>>High availability is an excellent area to learn about networking/scripting/trade-off decisions etc but it's very hard to get right, esp. the first time. I think is very worth it using the cloud provider's solutions, like Amazon's (or Rackspace's) load balancers and autoscaling. >>>>>> >>>>>>--------------------- >>>>>>Fernando Duran >>>>>>http://www.fduran.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>________________________________ >>>>>>> From: Dave Cramer >>>>>>>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>>>>>>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 8:57:39 AM >>>>>>>Subject: [TLUG]: High Availability of a web server on a distributed cloud >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>It is relatively simple to distribute an application to a number of servers and use haproxy to switch ip's. What I can't figure out is how to switch make sure that the IP that points to ha-proxy can be moved easily if that machine fails ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>DNS round robin doesn't exactly work. I have a very limited understanding of BGP is it possible to do without BGP ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Dave Cramer >>>>>>> >>>>>>>? >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>>>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>>>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>? >>>>-- >>>>The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > >? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 22 16:53:26 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 11:53:26 -0500 Subject: Of netbooks, tablets and Linux's revenge - The H Open: News and Features Message-ID: <50FEC406.5030706@rogers.com> http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Of-netbooks-tablets-and-Linux-s-revenge-1783069.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 04:04:26 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 23:04:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Of netbooks, tablets and Linux's revenge - The H Open: News and Features In-Reply-To: <50FEC406.5030706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50FEC406.5030706@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Of-netbooks-tablets-and-Linux-s-revenge-1783069.html Interesting article but I think it misses a few points: - netbooks died for me because + their performance plateaued. How could that be, in the face of Moore's law etc.? * Microsoft and Intel forced limitations on manufacturers (OS, screen resolution, RAM size, CPU crunch, and perhaps disk size) * the AMD end-run around the Intel portion of the restrictions seems to have been too little, too late, and not embraced by "the channel". (My Acer Aspire One 522 has 1280x720 display, fast video, faster-than-atom CPU and cost only $229 because the store orphaned it.) + "real" notebooks got cheaper, approaching the cost of netbooks + tablet niche overlaps netbook niche, but only partially - netbooks surely didn't make money for Microsoft. Microsoft essentially gave away hobbled software to protect their flank from Linux. This, along with the licensing restrictions, probably proves anti-trust rule violation to any reasonable court. - consumers like sizzle. The iPad was sexy in a way that netbooks were not. Many Android tablets are cheap-like-netbooks. But there are decent Android tablets too. (My daughter has an LG 120 Netbook. I recently played with it again: it was well made and didn't feel cheap. And it has a 1366x768 screen. That made it expensive and it didn't sell well (so we got it on clearance).) - Android is built on the Linux kernel but it isn't a Linux environment and the conventions of Android vis-a-vis privacy make my hair (singular) curl. (Standard Operating Procedure on Android is that every application and the system itself leak and sell your privacy. On Linux, only Ubuntu's seach bar does that. Of course web sites are bad but you kind of know that when you are asking to reach beyond your machine. Windows 8 seems to have embrased this misfeature.) - if my tablets ran Ubuntu or Fedora, they'd be much better replacements for my netbook. - the Samsung Chromebook is probably a great replacement for a netbook (it can run Ubuntu or Fedora, I think). - Ultrabooks are (intended to be) sexy and have a decent profit margin. I won't buy one until they are cheaper. From what I hear, Ultrabooks have failed in the market because too many feel like me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 05:12:41 2013 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric B) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 00:12:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <50FC0E22.4060004-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> <50FC0E22.4060004@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jan 2013, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On 01/20/2013 07:23 PM, James Knott wrote: > > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > James, my own views on physics and understanding this world were always > > > somewhat non-standard. Otherwise why would I need at all to work in > > > physics? > > > > > > If you insist, I do not myself believe in the theory of Darwin. However, > > > the science is not a "do I believe or not". This is a something more. I > > > also at the same time may clearly say: I hate simplifications. And the > > > idea of creationism seems to be one of these. > > > > > > Nethertheless, the idea of anthropic principle (search on Google) has > > > already a good foundations in the philosophy of science. There is were my > > > thinking goes on. > > > > > > > In science, theories are supposed to be based on the evidence. So far, that > > favours Darwin and completely contradicts creationism. Also, I have read of > > the anthropic principle. One only has to look at quantum mechanics to > > realize that what's being observed might not be compatible with what we > > expect, based on our own experiences in the "real" world. > > > > > > Regardless, any claims that intelligent design is science are absolute > > nonsense. > > Did I claim that I support so called Intelligent Design? > > No. You boy should go to school. Did James claim that *you* supported Intelligent Design (ID)? He just expressed a scientifically rational opinion about the pseudoscience called ID. The consensus of scientific opinion is quite clear about evolution. The scientific facts supporting evolution are overwhelming. There is no scientific controversy. Evolution is a fact (or collection of facts). Darwin created the theory of "natural selection" to explain the mechanism. Only laypersons and ideologues deny evolution itself. You claimed that you do not believe in the theory of Darwin. Is that a way of saying that you deny the fact of evolution or Darwin's theory of "natural selection"? -- Eric B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 12:58:57 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 07:58:57 -0500 Subject: OT: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> <50FC0E22.4060004@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50FFDE91.7060100@rogers.com> Eric B wrote: > You claimed that you do not believe in the theory of Darwin. > Is that a way of saying that you deny the fact of evolution > or Darwin's theory of "natural selection"? I recall something on the news a while ago, about a seriously ill child that died. The parents said they didn't believe in science and so let their child die, relying on faith to save her. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 14:00:32 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 09:00:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <50FFDE91.7060100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> <50FC0E22.4060004@gmail.com> <50FFDE91.7060100@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | I recall something on the news a while ago, about a seriously ill child that | died. The parents said they didn't believe in science and so let their child | die, relying on faith to save her. People do things that we consider wrong-headed for a lot of reasons. This one sounds like a clear example. But a lot of what was done in the name of Evolution was scary -- the Holocaust comes to mind (I know, only a small part of the justification was Evolution). Supporting "Inteligent Design" under that name is a clear sign of wrong-headedness. The reason is that the name shows what team you got your ideas from. Note: I accuse the video of being from this team. I didn't acuse Zbigniew. I just saw a PBS Frontline about how FUD has been spread in the US about anthropic climate change. Scary. I sure wish Canadians had TV programs as incisive as Frontline Note: this is not trying to make a scientific argument; it shows how the science has been neutralized in public discourse. This sounds like a wierd segue, but the same or related forces seem to be inserting ID into science curicula. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 15:17:13 2013 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 10:17:13 -0500 Subject: OT: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> <50FC0E22.4060004@gmail.com> <50FFDE91.7060100@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 23/01/13 09:00 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: James Knott > > | I recall something on the news a while ago, about a seriously ill child that > | died. The parents said they didn't believe in science and so let their child > | die, relying on faith to save her. > > People do things that we consider wrong-headed for a lot of reasons. This > one sounds like a clear example. But a lot of what was done in the name > of Evolution was scary -- the Holocaust comes to mind (I know, only a > small part of the justification was Evolution). Actually, the Nazis banned and burned "On the Origin of Species". They weren't evolution believers, they believed they were the best there was ever going to be. > Supporting "Inteligent Design" under that name is a clear sign of > wrong-headedness. The reason is that the name shows what team you got > your ideas from. > > Note: I accuse the video of being from this team. I didn't acuse > Zbigniew. > > I just saw a PBS Frontline about how FUD has been spread in the US about > anthropic climate change. Scary. I sure wish Canadians had TV programs > as incisive as Frontline > > Note: this is not trying to make a scientific argument; it shows how > the science has been neutralized in public discourse. > > This sounds like a wierd segue, but the same or related forces seem to be > inserting ID into science curicula. And they keep losing. See the Dover trial. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 15:28:30 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 10:28:30 -0500 Subject: OT: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> <50FC0E22.4060004@gmail.com> <50FFDE91.7060100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5100019E.2020206@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I just saw a PBS Frontline about how FUD has been spread in the US about > anthropic climate change. Scary. I sure wish Canadians had TV programs > as incisive as Frontline This sort of thing may be why the right wingers in the U.S. are trying to kill PBS. They don't want a scientifically literate population. They also don't want critical thinkers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 16:04:02 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:04:02 -0500 Subject: OT: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <50FFDE91.7060100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> <50FC0E22.4060004@gmail.com> <50FFDE91.7060100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130123160402.GQ1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 07:58:57AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > I recall something on the news a while ago, about a seriously ill > child that died. The parents said they didn't believe in science > and so let their child die, relying on faith to save her. Never mind that perhaps the science was what was provided to them to save their child. If you believe any of that. Reminds me of the story of the guy sitting on top of his house during a flood who keeos turning down being saved by someone in a rowboat, because he expects god to save him. When he finally drowns and complains about not being saved, god tells him that he sent a guy with a boat 3 times to save him. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 16:05:33 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:05:33 -0500 Subject: OT: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <5100019E.2020206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> <50FC0E22.4060004@gmail.com> <50FFDE91.7060100@rogers.com> <5100019E.2020206@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130123160533.GR1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 10:28:30AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > This sort of thing may be why the right wingers in the U.S. are > trying to kill PBS. They don't want a scientifically literate > population. They also don't want critical thinkers. They prefer sheep. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 18:03:44 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:03:44 -0500 Subject: OT: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <50FFDE91.7060100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> <50FC0E22.4060004@gmail.com> <50FFDE91.7060100@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 7:58 AM, James Knott wrote: > Eric B wrote: >> >> You claimed that you do not believe in the theory of Darwin. >> Is that a way of saying that you deny the fact of evolution >> or Darwin's theory of "natural selection"? > > I recall something on the news a while ago, about a seriously ill child that > died. The parents said they didn't believe in science and so let their > child die, relying on faith to save her. This happens fairly frequently with, erm, "supplicants" of Christian Science, which bears relatively little resemblance to other things with "Christian" in their name, which essentially holds that all material things are illusions, so it's merely an illusion that the child was "seriously ill." Their group is a tiny microcosm; I think it would be an error to tie the (fairly rare, though commonly well-publicized) cases where their folk reject medical treatment with broader religious communities that have extremely different behaviours. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 21:51:48 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:51:48 -0500 Subject: OT: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> <50FC0E22.4060004@gmail.com> <50FFDE91.7060100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51005B74.9040700@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > Their group is a tiny microcosm; I think it would be an error to tie the > (fairly rare, though commonly well-publicized) cases where their folk > reject medical treatment with broader religious communities that have > extremely different behaviours. Such as all those who go to Lourdes, expecting a cure? Carl Sagan looked at the number of "miracles" recognized by the Catholic church and found they were lower than the natural remission rate for the various diseases. He also pointed out that you were more likely to die traveling to or from Lourdes, than to be cured. There are many other examples, where religious belief causes people to forgo proper medical care. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 21:54:43 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:54:43 -0500 Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130123215443.GS1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 01:54:25PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > Hey folks, > > My stereo receiver just blew (wrong fuse!). I am thinking about > replacing it with a simple embedded linux system that can > - play digital soundfiles stored on some kind of local hard drive > - be controlled from other computers in the house, and preferably also > from our android tablet > - access files on shared disk drives that live on other computers on the LAN > - switch inputs so e.g. it's possible to play records from the turntable > > Has anyone ever done anything like that? Any suggestions? What will amplify for the speakers? After all if you have 150W speakers and want to drive 5 of those, that's up to 750W. What part of your PC is going to drive that? Most PCs also only have 1 or 2 line ins for audio. Not that helpful in general. Also do you actually want to pass your sound through such a noisy environment as your PC case if you don't have to? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 22:06:00 2013 From: erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Erik Levinson) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:06:00 -0500 Subject: Getting rid of four more PowerEdge 1850s - $50 each Message-ID: <51005EC8.6080403@uberflip.com> As some may remember, we were disposing of some PowerEdge 1850s / 2850s a few months ago. We just removed the last four PE 1850s. If anyone wants them for $50 each (no hard drives), pick up from King & Dufferin, please let me know. Thanks Erik -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 23 22:51:19 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:51:19 -0500 Subject: OT: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: <51005B74.9040700-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> <50FC0E22.4060004@gmail.com> <50FFDE91.7060100@rogers.com> <51005B74.9040700@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 4:51 PM, James Knott wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: >> >> Their group is a tiny microcosm; I think it would be an error to tie the >> (fairly rare, though commonly well-publicized) cases where their folk >> reject medical treatment with broader religious communities that have >> extremely different behaviours. > > Such as all those who go to Lourdes, expecting a cure? Carl Sagan looked at > the number of "miracles" recognized by the Catholic church and found they > were lower than the natural remission rate for the various diseases. He > also pointed out that you were more likely to die traveling to or from > Lourdes, than to be cured. There are many other examples, where religious > belief causes people to forgo proper medical care. Yes, I think it would be an error to consider those the same thing. There are approximately a billion Catholics, and "going to Lourdes, a place in France with population 15K to get healed" which can only conceivably be done by some miniscule portion of their supplicants seems not remotely the same thing as a declared doctrine being to reject sickness as an illusion, and doctoring as an illusory solution to the illusory sickness. I'm not trying to defend the Catholics; rather, the CS folk seem quite a few standard deviations crazier. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 01:22:00 2013 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:22:00 -0800 Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: <20130123215443.GS1769-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130123215443.GS1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Something that's mostly amp, with a DC conversion for the computer portion ( and a raspberri pi for the brains) might work nicely On Jan 23, 2013 1:55 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 01:54:25PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > > Hey folks, > > > > My stereo receiver just blew (wrong fuse!). I am thinking about > > replacing it with a simple embedded linux system that can > > - play digital soundfiles stored on some kind of local hard drive > > - be controlled from other computers in the house, and preferably also > > from our android tablet > > - access files on shared disk drives that live on other computers on the > LAN > > - switch inputs so e.g. it's possible to play records from the turntable > > > > Has anyone ever done anything like that? Any suggestions? > > What will amplify for the speakers? After all if you have 150W speakers > and want to drive 5 of those, that's up to 750W. What part of your PC > is going to drive that? > > Most PCs also only have 1 or 2 line ins for audio. Not that helpful > in general. > > Also do you actually want to pass your sound through such a noisy > environment as your PC case if you don't have to? > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 24 10:41:09 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:41:09 +0400 Subject: OT: changing youtube video In-Reply-To: References: <50F9789E.7000206@gmail.com> <50FB1505.5010105@rogers.com> <50FB7EFC.2090900@gmail.com> <50FC0BE5.8050308@rogers.com> <50FC0E22.4060004@gmail.com> <50FFDE91.7060100@rogers.com> <51005B74.9040700@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51010FC5.5090602@gmail.com> My few short thoughts on this subject initiated not intentionally. Not addressed particularly to anyone. The name "Intelligent Design" is strongly misleading for describing the way of thinking I am close to. I prefer to operate by using the term "anthropic principle". I discuss a lot with people, on the Internet. Mostly in Polish - that is much easier for me in own native language even though living in Canada for 14 years. I am striken indeed by the way of thinking that is almost entirely dominated by materialistic ideas. The same problem is here. If my thinking was not materialistic, believe, I would have done nothing in physics. But I did a something. When you find a something new and you do not believe in an order how the matter is organised - you will not achieve anything, will not be able to solve even simple new problem. However, at the same time, a real scientist should question all the time existing theories and models. To a reasonable extend. Otherwise, there would be no progress in understanding. And that, paradoxically, even though a real scientist must remain very conservative in her thoughts. When I say that I do not believe in the theory of Darvin - than that is not a scientific statement. Besides, I am not a biologist but a physicists. I guess I have the moral right to believe or not to believe in whatever I decide to? When it comes to physics, I rather avoid using the world "believe". In that case I usually know or I do not know. However, the theory of evolution yes, this is a perfect example of ideology. A set of views intercepted by humanists that during a few centuries was convenient for ideological reasons. For good or bad. Again, that is what I think, not what I know. The idea of anthropoic principle offers instead a very alternate and a refreshing view, understanding (partial understanding) of this world we live in. And no, yes, it is well accepted and quite broadly within the scientific community. Unfortunately, not by the society as such because, simply, thinking of the society is still controlled by media and the idea itself is very inconvenient to media for just... ideological reasons. BTW, what is really wrong with that movie I provided the link to? Except of the name that I question? I could not see anything there that is not scientific or not rationale. For all comments - thanks anyway. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 19:06:19 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 14:06:19 -0500 Subject: [OT] jQueryTO March 2-3 Message-ID: This might be of interest to some on the list: BNOTIONS is hosting the first Toronto jQuery conference March 2-3 (also first in Canada); they?ve arranged for some leading minds in the JavaScript & HTML5 worlds to come give talks, including Paul Irish & Addy Osmani. Early bird registration is open until Jan 31st at $150, $250 after the cutoff date. More info at Best, -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 19:31:49 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 14:31:49 -0500 Subject: $199 4" x 4" AMD board with Open BIOS and GPIO expandability. Message-ID: <5102DDA5.5040402@ss.org> http://www.gizmosphere.org/ Okay... I did not see this coming. It's a dev board in the vein of many of the ARM boards that have been coming out. Although it's using an AMD APU (CPU+GPU) mobile chip, 1Ghz daul core with a Radeon 6000 series. Performance wise should be comparable with many of the arm boards, but with it being x86_64 the software support is already there. Nifty feature is the bios is a Coreboot (formerly known as linuxbios) derivative. I've seen a lot of boards come out lately that have had nifty feature sets, but the lack of support usually means the die on the vine (Via APC.... *fume*) Anyways, would like to see peoples thoughts and comments. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 20:42:33 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:42:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: $199 4" x 4" AMD board with Open BIOS and GPIO expandability. In-Reply-To: <5102DDA5.5040402-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <5102DDA5.5040402@ss.org> Message-ID: | From: Scott Sullivan | http://www.gizmosphere.org/ | I've seen a lot of boards come out lately that have had nifty feature sets, | but the lack of support usually means the die on the vine (Via APC.... *fume*) What's up with that? Replaced by Rock and Paper? Android instead of Linux (closed source drivers)? Via historically hasn't been a good Linux player, at least with regards to video drivers. | Anyways, would like to see peoples thoughts and comments. I'm a cheapskate. I don't think that this is too interesting because of the bargains I've found: - I have an Acer AO522 netbook with a similar "APU" (AMD C-50) for $230 perhaps a year and a half ago. This netbook came with a lot more than that little board. - I bought three Foxconn nT-A3500 barebones "nettop" computers with AMD E-350 APU at $100 each over a year ago. I had to add RAM and disk. Very cute. Newegg.ca sells them for $159.99 + $11.49 shipping at the moment. I saw them somewhere for less on boxing day. They are getting a bit long in the tooth. But AMD's chips are not improving much these days (sad!). I admit that a bare board can do things that netbooks and nettops cannot (and vice versa). So maybe my reaction is irrelevant. I don't know what AMD G-Series APU is being used. Oh, if you dig far enough, you find it is a G-Series T40e, one of the 2011 Brazos designs (like the C-50 and E-350 in my computers). Dual core, 1GHz, 6.4W, so a lot like my C-50, but with lower power consumption. The APUs have decent graphics but there have been annoying problems. For example, AMD did not release specs to enable the open-source Radeon driver to put audio over HDMI, something necessary for an HTPC. That may have been solved by now (by reverse engineering) but it wasn't in a timely fashion for my needs. The proprietary driver didn't work with Ubuntu for a long time (may have been fixed by now) but Ubuntu didn't seem to care for over a year. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 25 22:41:22 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 17:41:22 -0500 Subject: $199 4" x 4" AMD board with Open BIOS and GPIO expandability. In-Reply-To: References: <5102DDA5.5040402@ss.org> Message-ID: On 25 January 2013 15:42, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Scott Sullivan > > | http://www.gizmosphere.org/ > > | I've seen a lot of boards come out lately that have had nifty feature sets, > | but the lack of support usually means the die on the vine (Via APC.... *fume*) > > What's up with that? Replaced by Rock and Paper? Android instead of > Linux (closed source drivers)? Via historically hasn't been a good Linux > player, at least with regards to video drivers. > > | Anyways, would like to see peoples thoughts and comments. > > I'm a cheapskate. I don't think that this is too interesting because > of the bargains I've found: > > - I have an Acer AO522 netbook with a similar "APU" (AMD C-50) for > $230 perhaps a year and a half ago. This netbook came with a lot > more than that little board. > > - I bought three Foxconn nT-A3500 barebones "nettop" computers with > AMD E-350 APU at $100 each over a year ago. I had to add RAM and > disk. Very cute. > > Newegg.ca sells them for $159.99 + $11.49 shipping at the moment. > I saw them somewhere for less on boxing day. > They are getting a bit long in the tooth. But AMD's chips are not > improving much these days (sad!). > > I admit that a bare board can do things that netbooks and nettops > cannot (and vice versa). So maybe my reaction is irrelevant. > > I don't know what AMD G-Series APU is being used. Oh, if you dig far > enough, you find it is a G-Series T40e, one of the 2011 Brazos designs > (like the C-50 and E-350 in my computers). Dual core, 1GHz, 6.4W, so a > lot like my C-50, but with lower power consumption. > > > > > The APUs have decent graphics but there have been annoying problems. > For example, AMD did not release specs to enable the open-source > Radeon driver to put audio over HDMI, something necessary for an HTPC. > That may have been solved by now (by reverse engineering) but it > wasn't in a timely fashion for my needs. > > The proprietary driver didn't work with Ubuntu for a long time (may > have been fixed by now) but Ubuntu didn't seem to care for over a year. > Got to agree with Hugh about prices. Another thing I don't like is the wattage required. I didn't find any mention of the power draw, but I feel sure these things pull down a LOT more power than the 2-3 watts the Raspberry Pi or mk802 pull down. All you have to do is look at those honking enormous heat sinks. Sure, you probably get some more computing power (exactly how much is a really interesting question!) but if I'm going up that much in power, I'll take a nettop in a case (if I can still find one ...). It's an interesting idea, but I think their competitors are the Pi and mk80[28], and it looks to me like they've already lost. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 26 14:07:50 2013 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:07:50 -0500 Subject: Samsung Laser Printer to go Message-ID: We are retiring our Samsung ML2250 laser printer. As far as I know, it's working fine. Uses a USB interface, and I have the install disk. Free to a good home. Worth Causes get first priority ;). Pickup in the Danforth-Logan area. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 26 21:04:24 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 16:04:24 -0500 Subject: Little Linux Box Bits... Message-ID: FYI: I see that Belkin is buying Linksys from Cisco (http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/01/24/belkin-helps-cisco-exit-consumer-space-by-acquiring-its-home-networking-division-including-linksys/). As far as I am concerned the Linksys boxes are just little Linux boxes, as the first thing I will do when I get a Linksys router is replace the factory firmware with a 3rd party firmware (of late I have been using DD-WRT, but in the past I have used Tomato Linux). Those Linksys models that can't be re-flashed with a reasonable 3rd party Linux, I ignore. Not sure what (if anything) this change will mean to those of us into 3rd party Linux routers, but something to keep an eye on... "Open Arena" has become the first "Adult" title in the Raspberry Pi store (http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/3131). "Open Arena" is a first person shooter game based off the Quake III software. In the game you are wandering through a series of large buildings, in each building there are various weapons to be found as you hunt (and are hunted by) other players. If you are killed, hitting the "fire" will bring you back into the game within a few seconds, minus any weapons you may have previously collected. First player to successfully kill some number of other players (usually 15) wins. If you shoot another player with a rocket (or one of the other high end weapons) you will see body parts go flying, so the "Adult" rating came out of game violence, NOT out of sex/nudity. My take on "Quake III" the game "Open Arena" is based on can be seen here : ftp://ftp.linuxjournal.com/pub/tux/tux017.pdf . At one time I took an interest in LAN parties, people getting together to play the same game against each other in the same room. The problems with LAN parties for me were things like moving desktop PCs and LAN party people seemingly "needing" high end graphics cards that were more expensive than what what I would pay for a whole PC. This is all a long way round to ask if there would be an interest in a $35 (US) "Open Arena" LAN party? Okay, you can't get a Raspberry Pi fully running for $35 (you need a keyboard, mouse, SD card, power supply, etc.), but still... In other words reasonable cost for entry, plus carrying a Raspberry Pi, keyboard, mouse, LCD monitor, etc. (assuming you don't go for say a 50" screen) could all be done in a typical knapsack / canvas shopping bag. Thoughts? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 27 04:24:09 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 23:24:09 -0500 Subject: Decent Graphs from Spreadsheet data? Message-ID: Hi Eveyrone, Whew, I just spent about 2 hours grappling with Libreoffice Calc trying to get some graphs from spreadsheet data. That was painful! I was helping my duaghter with her homework, and she wanted scatter plots that graphed 2 columns against each other, but with the color of the dots dictated by the value of a third column (THe data is here, in google docs form: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqhzp2yOOf0zdGc1MHozTm1XblZTdWVLN2JkcE4ySUE ; she wante "Time of Call" graphed against "Response Time in Minutes" with datapoints colored for "Company Name"). Now, This seems to me like it ought to be straightforward to do, but instead we were searching for ever through complex GUI's & ended up with charts that were very hard to print out properly (eventually we saved them as JPEGS and printed from gimage -- that worked fine). Does anyuone havea better solution than libreoffice? Or, do you have a link to a really good guide to the chart features in libreoffice? Either of these would be so helpful! Thanks, Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 27 18:35:49 2013 From: faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Syed Faisal Akber) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:35:49 +0000 Subject: Decent Graphs from Spreadsheet data? Message-ID: <1595842658-1359311749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1461676471-@b3.c20.bise6.blackberry> UmVjZW50bHkgSSd2ZSBtb3ZlZCBhd2F5IGZyb20gdXNpbmcgc3ByZWFkc2hlZXRzIGZvciBncmFw aGluZyBhbmQgbW92ZWQgYmFjayB0byBHTlVQTE9UIGFuZCBSLiANCg0KR251cGxvdCBpcyBncmVh dCBmb3IgZ3JhcGhpbmcgb25seS4gIFVzZSBhIFRTViBvciBDU1YgZmlsZSBmcm9tIHRoZSBzcHJl YWRzaGVldCBhbmQgZ28uIA0KDQpJZiB5b3UgbmVlZCB0byBwZXJmb3JtIGFuYWx5c2lzIGFuZCBt YW5pcHVsYXRlIHRoZSBkYXRhIGFzIHdlbGwgYXMgZ3JhcGggaXQsIHVzZSBSLiANCg0KRmFpc2Fs DQotLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBNYXR0IFByaWNlDQpTZW5kZXI6 IG93bmVyLXRsdWdAc3Mub3JnDQpUbzogVExVRw0KUmVwbHlUbzogdGx1Z0Bzcy5vcmcNClN1Ympl Y3Q6IFtUTFVHXTogRGVjZW50IEdyYXBocyBmcm9tIFNwcmVhZHNoZWV0IGRhdGE/DQpTZW50OiBK YW4gMjYsIDIwMTMgMjM6MjQNCg0KSGkgRXZleXJvbmUsDQoNCldoZXcsIEkganVzdCBzcGVudCBh Ym91dCAyIGhvdXJzIGdyYXBwbGluZyB3aXRoIExpYnJlb2ZmaWNlIENhbGMNCnRyeWluZyB0byBn ZXQgc29tZSBncmFwaHMgZnJvbSBzcHJlYWRzaGVldCBkYXRhLiAgVGhhdCB3YXMgcGFpbmZ1bCEg IEkNCndhcyBoZWxwaW5nIG15IGR1YWdodGVyIHdpdGggaGVyIGhvbWV3b3JrLCBhbmQgc2hlIHdh bnRlZCBzY2F0dGVyDQpwbG90cyB0aGF0IGdyYXBoZWQgMiBjb2x1bW5zIGFnYWluc3QgZWFjaCBv dGhlciwgYnV0IHdpdGggdGhlIGNvbG9yIG9mDQp0aGUgZG90cyBkaWN0YXRlZCBieSB0aGUgdmFs dWUgb2YgYSB0aGlyZCBjb2x1bW4gKFRIZSBkYXRhIGlzIGhlcmUsIGluDQogZ29vZ2xlIGRvY3Mg Zm9ybToNCmh0dHBzOi8vZG9jcy5nb29nbGUuY29tL3NwcmVhZHNoZWV0L2NjYz9rZXk9MEFxaHpw MnlPT2YwemRHYzFNSG96VG0xWGJsWlRkV1ZMTjJKa2NFNHlTVUUNCjsgc2hlIHdhbnRlICJUaW1l IG9mIENhbGwiIGdyYXBoZWQgYWdhaW5zdCAiUmVzcG9uc2UgVGltZSBpbiBNaW51dGVzIg0Kd2l0 aCBkYXRhcG9pbnRzIGNvbG9yZWQgZm9yICJDb21wYW55IE5hbWUiKS4gIE5vdywgVGhpcyBzZWVt cyB0byBtZQ0KbGlrZSBpdCBvdWdodCB0byBiZSBzdHJhaWdodGZvcndhcmQgdG8gZG8sIGJ1dCBp bnN0ZWFkIHdlIHdlcmUNCnNlYXJjaGluZyBmb3IgZXZlciB0aHJvdWdoIGNvbXBsZXggR1VJJ3Mg JiBlbmRlZCB1cCB3aXRoIGNoYXJ0cyB0aGF0DQp3ZXJlIHZlcnkgaGFyZCB0byBwcmludCBvdXQg cHJvcGVybHkgKGV2ZW50dWFsbHkgd2Ugc2F2ZWQgdGhlbSBhcw0KSlBFR1MgYW5kIHByaW50ZWQg ZnJvbSBnaW1hZ2UgLS0gdGhhdCB3b3JrZWQgZmluZSkuICBEb2VzIGFueXVvbmUNCmhhdmVhIGJl dHRlciBzb2x1dGlvbiB0aGFuIGxpYnJlb2ZmaWNlPyAgT3IsIGRvIHlvdSBoYXZlIGEgbGluayB0 byBhDQpyZWFsbHkgZ29vZCBndWlkZSB0byB0aGUgY2hhcnQgZmVhdHVyZXMgaW4gbGlicmVvZmZp Y2U/DQoNCkVpdGhlciBvZiB0aGVzZSB3b3VsZCBiZSBzbyBoZWxwZnVsISAgVGhhbmtzLA0KTWF0 dA0KLS0NClRoZSBUb3JvbnRvIExpbnV4IFVzZXJzIEdyb3VwLiAgICAgIE1lZXRpbmdzOiBodHRw Oi8vZ3RhbHVnLm9yZy8NClRMVUcgcmVxdWVzdHM6IExpbnV4IHRvcGljcywgTm8gSFRNTCwgd3Jh cCB0ZXh0IGJlbG93IDgwIGNvbHVtbnMNCkhvdyB0byBVTlNVQlNDUklCRTogaHR0cDovL2d0YWx1 Zy5vcmcvd2lraS9NYWlsaW5nX2xpc3RzDQoNClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBCbGFja0JlcnJ5riBzbWFy dHBob25l -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 27 18:46:00 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:46:00 -0500 Subject: Decent Graphs from Spreadsheet data? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <510575E8.8070500@gmail.com> On 26-01-13 23:24 , Matt Price wrote: > > ... she wanted "Time of Call" graphed against "Response Time in Minutes" > with datapoints colored for "Company Name") The Company Name column isn't consistent. It contains Arrow, Metro and metro. No wonder OOCalc was having a fit. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 27 20:54:39 2013 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 15:54:39 -0500 Subject: Decent Graphs from Spreadsheet data? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll add another vote for Gnuplot - it's old school, but it's very, very flexible, and the performance is terrific. Alex On Jan 26, 2013 11:24 PM, "Matt Price" wrote: > Hi Eveyrone, > > Whew, I just spent about 2 hours grappling with Libreoffice Calc > trying to get some graphs from spreadsheet data. That was painful! I > was helping my duaghter with her homework, and she wanted scatter > plots that graphed 2 columns against each other, but with the color of > the dots dictated by the value of a third column (THe data is here, in > google docs form: > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqhzp2yOOf0zdGc1MHozTm1XblZTdWVLN2JkcE4ySUE > ; she wante "Time of Call" graphed against "Response Time in Minutes" > with datapoints colored for "Company Name"). Now, This seems to me > like it ought to be straightforward to do, but instead we were > searching for ever through complex GUI's & ended up with charts that > were very hard to print out properly (eventually we saved them as > JPEGS and printed from gimage -- that worked fine). Does anyuone > havea better solution than libreoffice? Or, do you have a link to a > really good guide to the chart features in libreoffice? > > Either of these would be so helpful! Thanks, > Matt > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 16:03:16 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:03:16 -0500 Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: References: <20130123215443.GS1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Yes, I was thinking along htose lines, Tyler. But maybe it's not worth it -- better to make a tiny raspberry pi-based box w/ a decent sound card, a medium-sized hard drive, & a wireless connection, onnect to an amp, and drive the audio player via some remote software -- shiv had an idea for that but I can't remember what it was... m On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Something that's mostly amp, with a DC conversion for the computer portion ( > and a raspberri pi for the brains) might work nicely > > On Jan 23, 2013 1:55 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" > wrote: >> >> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 01:54:25PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: >> > Hey folks, >> > >> > My stereo receiver just blew (wrong fuse!). I am thinking about >> > replacing it with a simple embedded linux system that can >> > - play digital soundfiles stored on some kind of local hard drive >> > - be controlled from other computers in the house, and preferably also >> > from our android tablet >> > - access files on shared disk drives that live on other computers on the >> > LAN >> > - switch inputs so e.g. it's possible to play records from the turntable >> > >> > Has anyone ever done anything like that? Any suggestions? >> >> What will amplify for the speakers? After all if you have 150W speakers >> and want to drive 5 of those, that's up to 750W. What part of your PC >> is going to drive that? >> >> Most PCs also only have 1 or 2 line ins for audio. Not that helpful >> in general. >> >> Also do you actually want to pass your sound through such a noisy >> environment as your PC case if you don't have to? >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 17:31:32 2013 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:31:32 -0500 Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: References: <20130123215443.GS1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1359394292.3185.2.camel@tecumseth3> On Mon, 2013-01-28 at 11:03 -0500, Matt Price wrote: > Yes, I was thinking along htose lines, Tyler. But maybe it's not > worth it -- better to make a tiny raspberry pi-based box w/ a decent > sound card, a medium-sized hard drive, & a wireless connection, onnect > to an amp, and drive the audio player via some remote software -- shiv > had an idea for that but I can't remember what it was... Another ARM system has appeared, at the next price-point up from the Pi: Big jump in power and capacity. Don't know if it has a future. Mel. > > m > > On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > Something that's mostly amp, with a DC conversion for the computer portion ( > > and a raspberri pi for the brains) might work nicely > > > > On Jan 23, 2013 1:55 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" > > wrote: > >> > >> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 01:54:25PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > >> > Hey folks, > >> > > >> > My stereo receiver just blew (wrong fuse!). I am thinking about > >> > replacing it with a simple embedded linux system that can > >> > - play digital soundfiles stored on some kind of local hard drive > >> > - be controlled from other computers in the house, and preferably also > >> > from our android tablet > >> > - access files on shared disk drives that live on other computers on the > >> > LAN > >> > - switch inputs so e.g. it's possible to play records from the turntable > >> > > >> > Has anyone ever done anything like that? Any suggestions? > >> > >> What will amplify for the speakers? After all if you have 150W speakers > >> and want to drive 5 of those, that's up to 750W. What part of your PC > >> is going to drive that? > >> > >> Most PCs also only have 1 or 2 line ins for audio. Not that helpful > >> in general. > >> > >> Also do you actually want to pass your sound through such a noisy > >> environment as your PC case if you don't have to? > >> > >> -- > >> Len Sorensen > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 18:48:18 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:48:18 -0500 Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: <1359394292.3185.2.camel@tecumseth3> References: <20130123215443.GS1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1359394292.3185.2.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <20130128184818.GT1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:31:32PM -0500, Mel Wilson wrote: > Another ARM system has appeared, at the next price-point up from the Pi: > > Big jump in power and capacity. Don't know if it has a future. Impressive, but no SATA, so I don't care. :( -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 19:04:26 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:04:26 -0500 Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: <20130128184818.GT1769-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130123215443.GS1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1359394292.3185.2.camel@tecumseth3> <20130128184818.GT1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:31:32PM -0500, Mel Wilson wrote: >> Another ARM system has appeared, at the next price-point up from the Pi: >> >> Big jump in power and capacity. Don't know if it has a future. > > Impressive, but no SATA, so I don't care. :( The classic problem with the ARM designs is that they are almost always designed in a sort of "one shot" fashion, with no view to "next year, another model." In the IA-32 and x86-64 realms, there's perpetually another motherboard model just around the corner, and I can expect that if I buy one next year, it'll take advantage of enhancements that have come over the course of that year, whether that be new CPUs, new RAM, or such. Embedded systems, in contrast, have a pretty potent need to stay the same, which is important if you're trying to integrate it into a well-defined set of other hardware, but not so much if the point of the exercise is a "portable computing point." That doubtless makes life difficult for would-be vendors of ARM-based hardware; do you pick stability of hardware design, and get the "embedded" market? Or trudge after "keep it up to date" to attract the "itty bitty server" market? -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 19:11:39 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:11:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: <1359394292.3185.2.camel@tecumseth3> References: <20130123215443.GS1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1359394292.3185.2.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: | From: Mel Wilson | Another ARM system has appeared, at the next price-point up from the Pi: | | Big jump in power and capacity. Thanks. That's interesting. Key points: - Samsung Exynos4412 Prime Cortex-A9 Quad Core 1.7Ghz with 1MB L2 cache. Samsung seems to spec it at 1.4 or 1.6GHz so perhaps this is overclocked. (CPU performance way way better than Raspberry Pi.) - 2G of RAM: four times the current RP - quad core Mali 400 graphics. Probably not as good as Raspberry Pi's video. But good enough. Key question: what do you get as a video driver. Probably a binary blob :-( At least it comes with Ubuntu (promised). Many little things only come with Android which means that they may not be open enough to easily port Linux to them. - sad: ethernet is forced through USB bottleneck, just like on RP - scary: requires 2A power source vs 1A for RP. Picture shows optional heat sink. Is it needed? - slightly unfortunate: MicroSD card slot is listed as an option (that may be a mistake). Where does firmware live? I'm not up to speed on what eMMC is good for. No mention of SDHC vs SDXC (i.e. support for larger than 32G MicroSD cards). | Don't know if it has a future. The RP has so many folks adopting it that its future seems bright. I agree that the odroid's future isn't as clear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 20:15:40 2013 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:15:40 -0500 Subject: Functioning Internet Slide Rule Message-ID: <20130128151540.31647cdc@herring_sucker.example.net> Just in case you aren't wasting enough time today ... Simulated Pickett N4-ES Slide Rule http://www.antiquark.com/sliderule/sim/n4es/virtual-n4es.html -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org gstrom57-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 20:43:05 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:43:05 -0500 Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: References: <20130123215443.GS1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1359394292.3185.2.camel@tecumseth3> <20130128184818.GT1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130128204305.GU1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 02:04:26PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > The classic problem with the ARM designs is that they are almost > always designed in a > sort of "one shot" fashion, with no view to "next year, another model." > > In the IA-32 and x86-64 realms, there's perpetually another > motherboard model just > around the corner, and I can expect that if I buy one next year, it'll > take advantage of > enhancements that have come over the course of that year, whether that > be new CPUs, > new RAM, or such. > > Embedded systems, in contrast, have a pretty potent need to stay the same, which > is important if you're trying to integrate it into a well-defined set > of other hardware, > but not so much if the point of the exercise is a "portable computing point." > > That doubtless makes life difficult for would-be vendors of ARM-based hardware; > do you pick stability of hardware design, and get the "embedded" market? Or > trudge after "keep it up to date" to attract the "itty bitty server" market? It is obvious it was designed for a cell phone of media player using USB or network for storage. It isn't what I want of course, but it probably covers most of the demand. Just a shame when it is so close to perfect. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 20:53:18 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:53:18 -0500 Subject: building a linux stereo receiver? In-Reply-To: References: <20130123215443.GS1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1359394292.3185.2.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <20130128205318.GV1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 02:11:39PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Mel Wilson > > | Another ARM system has appeared, at the next price-point up from the Pi: > | > | Big jump in power and capacity. > > > Thanks. That's interesting. Key points: > > - Samsung Exynos4412 Prime Cortex-A9 Quad Core 1.7Ghz with 1MB L2 > cache. Samsung seems to spec it at 1.4 or 1.6GHz so perhaps > this is overclocked. > > (CPU performance way way better than Raspberry Pi.) > > - 2G of RAM: four times the current RP > > - quad core Mali 400 graphics. Probably not as good as Raspberry Pi's > video. But good enough. > Key question: what do you get as a video driver. Probably a binary > blob :-( http://limadriver.org/ Work in progress, but looking promising. > At least it comes with Ubuntu (promised). Many little things > only come with Android which means that they may not be open > enough to easily port Linux to them. > > - sad: ethernet is forced through USB bottleneck, just like on RP > > - scary: requires 2A power source vs 1A for RP. Picture shows > optional heat sink. Is it needed? > > - slightly unfortunate: MicroSD card slot is listed as an option (that > may be a mistake). Where does firmware live? I'm not up to speed > on what eMMC is good for. No mention of SDHC vs SDXC (i.e. support > for larger than 32G MicroSD cards). > > | Don't know if it has a future. > > The RP has so many folks adopting it that its future seems bright. I > agree that the odroid's future isn't as clear. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 20:57:07 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:57:07 -0500 Subject: Functioning Internet Slide Rule In-Reply-To: <20130128151540.31647cdc@herring_sucker.example.net> References: <20130128151540.31647cdc@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: <5106E623.7050905@ve3syb.ca> On 13-01-28 03:15 PM, Glen Strom wrote: > Simulated Pickett N4-ES Slide Rule > http://www.antiquark.com/sliderule/sim/n4es/virtual-n4es.html Nice. Looks and works just like the real N4-ES I have. If you browse up to http://www.antiquark.com/sliderule/sim/ you can find virtual slide rules for Pickett models N909, N3-T, N904-T, N525-ES, 160-ES, and N600-ES. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 21:08:12 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:08:12 -0500 Subject: Why this Linux user is now using Windows 3.1 Message-ID: http://m.networkworld.com/community/node/82240?mm_ref=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.google.com%2F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 21:36:20 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:36:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Functioning Internet Slide Rule In-Reply-To: <5106E623.7050905-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130128151540.31647cdc@herring_sucker.example.net> <5106E623.7050905@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: | From: Kevin Cozens | On 13-01-28 03:15 PM, Glen Strom wrote: | > Simulated Pickett N4-ES Slide Rule | > http://www.antiquark.com/sliderule/sim/n4es/virtual-n4es.html | | Nice. Looks and works just like the real N4-ES I have. Yeah. Even stutters when I move it like the real thing. I really prefered bamboo to aluminum or magnesium. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 21:48:55 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:48:55 -0500 Subject: How do I set up UPS to hibernate under apcupsd? Message-ID: <20130128214855.GA12225@waltdnes.org> OK, I've gone and bought an APC UPS, and installed apcupsd. The man pages and Google are full of examples of sending warnings to users and eventually shutting down when the battery is running low during a power outage. What I have *NOT* been able to find is simple instructions on how to hibernate the system during a power outage. The apcupsd mailing list has been useless. What I need to accomplish is... 1) First; order the UPS to shutdown after a specified delay 2) Second; immediately after sending the first order, execute /usr/bin/hibernate so that the PC powers down within the delay period ***IMPORTANT*** Once /usr/hibernate is launched, you must assume that the apcupsd process is being, or has been, frozen and is no longer in charge. This goes counter to the apcupsd man page which assumes that the apcupsd process is in charge until the very end. The UPS itself must finish the shutdown, after the specified delay. I also don't want apcupsd, after being woken up, to "continue the shutdown", and shutdown again. Anybody have this working? Output from grep -v ^# /etc/apcupsd/apcupsd.conf | grep ^... UPSCABLE usb UPSTYPE usb LOCKFILE /var/lock SCRIPTDIR /etc/apcupsd PWRFAILDIR /etc/apcupsd NOLOGINDIR /etc ONBATTERYDELAY 6 BATTERYLEVEL 15 MINUTES 5 TIMEOUT 0 ANNOY 300 ANNOYDELAY 60 NOLOGON disable KILLDELAY 180 NETSERVER on NISIP 0.0.0.0 NISPORT 3551 EVENTSFILE /var/log/apcupsd.events EVENTSFILEMAX 10 UPSCLASS standalone UPSMODE disable STATTIME 0 STATFILE /var/log/apcupsd.status LOGSTATS off DATATIME 0 Output from apcaccess APC : 001,039,1024 DATE : 2013-01-28 16:11:18 -0500 HOSTNAME : d531 VERSION : 3.14.8 (16 January 2010) gentoo UPSNAME : d531 CABLE : USB Cable MODEL : Back-UPS XS 1300G UPSMODE : Stand Alone STARTTIME: 2013-01-13 03:15:05 -0500 STATUS : ONLINE LINEV : 121.0 Volts LOADPCT : 6.0 Percent Load Capacity BCHARGE : 100.0 Percent TIMELEFT : 64.0 Minutes MBATTCHG : 15 Percent MINTIMEL : 5 Minutes MAXTIME : 0 Seconds SENSE : High LOTRANS : 088.0 Volts HITRANS : 136.0 Volts ALARMDEL : Always BATTV : 27.2 Volts LASTXFER : Unacceptable line voltage changes NUMXFERS : 1 XONBATT : 2013-01-25 15:53:09 -0500 TONBATT : 0 seconds CUMONBATT: 8 seconds XOFFBATT : 2013-01-25 15:53:17 -0500 LASTSTEST: 2013-01-25 15:53:09 -0500 SELFTEST : NO STATFLAG : 0x07000008 Status Flag MANDATE : 2012-07-06 SERIALNO : ************ BATTDATE : 2012-07-06 NOMINV : 120 Volts NOMBATTV : 24.0 Volts NOMPOWER : 780 Watts FIRMWARE : 864.L6 .D USB FW:L6 APCMODEL : Back-UPS XS 1300G END APC : 2013-01-28 16:11:51 -0500 -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 21:50:20 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:50:20 -0500 Subject: Functioning Internet Slide Rule In-Reply-To: <20130128151540.31647cdc@herring_sucker.example.net> References: <20130128151540.31647cdc@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: <5106F29C.5040903@rogers.com> Glen Strom wrote: > Just in case you aren't wasting enough time today ... > Who needs a virtual slide rule? I have a real one right here, a Pickett Microline 120, which I bought when I started high school. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 22:44:51 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:44:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Why this Linux user is now using Windows 3.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Thomas Milne | http://m.networkworld.com/community/node/82240?mm_ref=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.google.com%2F Apparently it is a step up from DOS. In the DOS part 2 article he claims that Microsoft Word 5.5 is a free appication. Personally, if I were to revert, it would be to an interesting system. Like ITS or Plan 9 (same vintage as Windows 3.11 but much less dated). Quote from The default ITS top-level command interpreter was the PDP-10 machine language debugger (DDT). Do others have suggestions for interesting old environments that are still available and free? SmallTalk and LISP come to mind. Maybe FORTH. To me, anything without decent internet support isn't much fun anymore (DOS and Win 3.1 included, and 7th Edition UNIX). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 23:42:42 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:42:42 -0500 Subject: Functioning Internet Slide Rule In-Reply-To: <20130128151540.31647cdc@herring_sucker.example.net> References: <20130128151540.31647cdc@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: <51070CF2.8010403@gmail.com> On 28-01-13 15:15 , Glen Strom wrote: > > http://www.antiquark.com/sliderule/sim/n4es/virtual-n4es.html Phew, just as well they don't have an emulator for my 1952 Post Versalog #1460, which is a little too complex for its own good. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 28 23:57:56 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:57:56 -0500 Subject: Why this Linux user is now using Windows 3.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51071084.2000507@gmail.com> On 28-01-13 17:44 , D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > Do others have suggestions for interesting old environments that are > still available and free? RISC OS. Originally written for Acorn's Archimedes, the first user of the ARM chip. Unusual in that it uses cooperative, not preemptive, multitasking ? your task has to let go of the CPU when it's okay to move on. Written entirely in ARM assembly language, it's tiny and blazingly fast. It's very much at home on the Raspberry Pi, which has a higher spec than any machine that ever ran it commercially. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 01:12:03 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:12:03 -0500 Subject: $35 LAN Party... Message-ID: At one time I took an interest in LAN parties, people getting together to play the same game against each other in the same room. The problems with LAN parties for me were things like moving desktop PCs and LAN party people seemingly "needing" high end graphics cards that were more expensive than what what I would pay for a whole PC. This is all a long way round to ask if there would be an interest in a Raspberry Pi (the $35 (US) computer) "Open Arena" (http://store.raspberrypi.com/projects/openarena?adult) LAN party? Okay, you can't get a Raspberry Pi fully running for $35 (you need a keyboard, mouse, SD card, power supply, etc.), but still... In other words, reasonable cost for entry, plus carrying a Raspberry Pi, keyboard, mouse, LCD monitor, etc. (assuming you don't go for say a 50" screen) could all be done in a typical knapsack / canvas shopping bag. Thoughts? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 18:36:33 2013 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:36:33 -0500 Subject: [Solved] CD Ripper box Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: [ ... ] > I think I have a bunch of drives, if anyone has the case. It doesn't > need to be much of a machine, as what takes far longer than ripping is > verifying metadata and rip quality. Musicbrainz, freedb, and lots of > little data check scripts will be your friend here ... > That was the right lead for me. In the end I found vortexbox, a fedora-based distro that combines various tools to make a generic ripping appliance. They include a bunch of the glue scripts to take some of the headaches and learning from experience out of the mix. So, now I have a collection that is backed up on original CDs and served from my media box. And I bunch of the old hardware that I had lying around has been revisited, vortexbox installed, and exercised. :-) If you have a collection to rip, now would be a good time to mention it, before I cast this stuff into kijiji, cheapcycle or the e-waste. If you have a small collection and want to do it yourself, or don't want to install a distro, I'd say use ripit. ripit did a pretty good job of tagging metadata and ripping automagically. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 20:54:04 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:54:04 -0500 Subject: Functioning Internet Slide Rule In-Reply-To: <20130128151540.31647cdc@herring_sucker.example.net> References: <20130128151540.31647cdc@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: <20130129205404.GA22872@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 03:15:40PM -0500, Glen Strom wrote: > Just in case you aren't wasting enough time today ... > > Simulated Pickett N4-ES Slide Rule > http://www.antiquark.com/sliderule/sim/n4es/virtual-n4es.html I had a real one, but lost it along the way. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 21:31:18 2013 From: paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 16:31:18 -0500 Subject: TLUG in the media Message-ID: Is it just me, or do the people in the picture in this article post look a wee bit familiar? http://www.citeworld.com/tablets/21353/something pm -- *Paul Mora* email: paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 29 22:38:41 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:38:41 -0500 Subject: TLUG in the media In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 01/29/2013 04:31 PM, Paul Mora wrote: > Is it just me, or do the people in the picture in this article post > look a wee bit familiar? > > http://www.citeworld.com/tablets/21353/something > > pm > > The big guy with the yellow nose looks awfully familiar :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 11:58:07 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 06:58:07 -0500 Subject: 10 Myths About Systemd Message-ID: I've seen some things about this in relation to Cubox because supposedly it allows much faster boot. Thought this might be interesting, personally I don't know enough to say either way. http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 12:58:06 2013 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:58:06 -0300 Subject: 10 Myths About Systemd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wouldn't say only "faster boot", but in fact I have a feeling that my system is more.. organized. o.O Arch Linux is using systemd by default now, and I'm enjoying it. No more (insane and slow) shell scripts like SysVinit scripts, logind instead of ConsoleKit, etc. And, one of the best things? Activation based on sockets, what makes our daemons more organized and faster. For example, a service won't need to know that it depends on D-BUS. The service will just need to send the request to the D-BUS's socket. And other stuff. =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. 2013/1/30 Thomas Milne > I've seen some things about this in relation to Cubox because supposedly > it allows much faster boot. > > Thought this might be interesting, personally I don't know enough to say > either way. > > http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 18:52:09 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 13:52:09 -0500 Subject: TLUG in the media In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 5:38 PM, John Moniz wrote: > On 01/29/2013 04:31 PM, Paul Mora wrote: >> >> Is it just me, or do the people in the picture in this article post look a >> wee bit familiar? >> >> http://www.citeworld.com/tablets/21353/something >> >> pm >> >> > The big guy with the yellow nose looks awfully familiar :-) Boy, what a bunch of ugly looking people (myself included :-) ). > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 20:32:27 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:32:27 -0500 Subject: China, GitHub, and the Man In The Middle Message-ID: A *very* interesting article that points to how the increasing use of HTTPS makes it rather a lot more difficult for would-be interfering intermediaries such as the Chinese government. https://en.greatfire.org/blog/2013/jan/china-github-and-man-middle That GitHub uses HTTPS means that, to control their peoples' access to GitHub, the choices are: a) Block GitHub altogether, b) Give up, or c) Try to insinuate a certificate into place so as to be Man In The Middle. None of these are particularly palatable, acceptable, or usable. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 30 21:59:55 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 16:59:55 -0500 Subject: TLUG in the media In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 01/30/2013 01:52 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 5:38 PM, John Moniz wrote: >> On 01/29/2013 04:31 PM, Paul Mora wrote: >>> Is it just me, or do the people in the picture in this article post look a >>> wee bit familiar? >>> >>> http://www.citeworld.com/tablets/21353/something >>> >>> pm >>> >>> >> The big guy with the yellow nose looks awfully familiar :-) > Boy, what a bunch of ugly looking people (myself included :-) ). > I'm just curious... how long is the extension cord powering that laptop near the big tree? And where on earth is the power coming from? It really looks so out of place. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 00:19:43 2013 From: mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org (Molly Tournquist) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:19:43 -0500 Subject: Little Linux Box Bits... Message-ID: <20130131001944.261850@gmx.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Colin McGregor > Sent: 01/26/13 04:04 PM > > My take on "Quake III" the game "Open Arena" is based on can be seen > here : ftp://ftp.linuxjournal.com/pub/tux/tux017.pdf . > > >...way of coping with stress There's a worrying bias, shoving under the rug that potential for spinning escapism by writing it off as a neat, cut and dry pressure valve. Escapism as one negative side among many potential big contexts, gaming has become a humongous thing. Sorry about however you were pushed into weaving in that slant. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 00:21:45 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:21:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: 10 Myths About Systemd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Thomas Milne | I've seen some things about this in relation to Cubox because supposedly it | allows much faster boot. | | Thought this might be interesting, personally I don't know enough to say | either way. | | http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths I'd be interested in an in-depth talk about the plumbing of systemd: what happens underneath. Systemd seems to be more than just an init replacement, it seems to be the conductor of the system. No, I'm not volunteering. But I'll heckle. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 00:33:38 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:33:38 -0500 Subject: Unix permission coexistence with posix acl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello pals, Curious if any of you know how the old Unix ACL interacts with posix ACL. I mean, if you have a directory that is using both ACL, which one does the system use to enforce the permission? I am suspecting both are checked but one supersede the other, kind of the way Unix ACL are checked before SElinux. I have googled this morning but don't seem to be having any luck. Case in point, I have a jboss folder that I need to manage through a group. The problem is, if they delete the tmp directory, on restarting jboss, the directory end up owned by root. Shouldn't it be owned by jboss, being the default user? I should say jboss is currently running as root, something which I plan to fix by forwarding default port to 443, so don't shot me for that mistake [root at dev2-yyz-int ~]# getfacl /opt/application/jboss/server/default/ getfacl: Removing leading '/' from absolute path names # file: opt/application/jboss/server/default/ # owner: jboss # group: developers # flags: -s- user::rwx group::rwx group:developers:rwx mask::rwx other::r-x default:user::rwx default:user:jboss:rwx default:group::rwx default:group:developers:rwx default:mask::rwx default:other::r-x [root at dev3-yyz-int default]# ls -al total 80 drwxrwsr-x+ 10 jboss developers 4096 Jan 30 12:00 . drwxrwsr-x+ 5 jboss developers 4096 Feb 16 2012 .. drwxrwsr-x+ 4 jboss developers 4096 Jan 8 12:47 conf drwxrwsr-x+ 5 root developers 4096 Feb 16 2012 data drwxrwsr-x+ 10 jboss developers 4096 Jan 29 16:35 deploy drwxrwsr-x+ 5 jboss developers 4096 Apr 11 2012 lib drwxrwsr-x+ 2 jboss developers 4096 Jan 30 00:00 log drwxrwsr-x+ 2 jboss developers 4096 Jan 14 16:16 sslcerts drwxrwsr-x+ 4 root developers 4096 Jan 30 14:11 tmp drwxrwsr-x+ 3 root developers 4096 Jan 30 12:00 work Shouldn't user be jboss on creating a new tmp directory? Anything you can think that I can do to get those three directory adopt the parent directory permission? Regards William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 02:48:53 2013 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 02:48:53 +0000 Subject: Unix permission coexistence with posix acl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:33 AM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hello pals, > > Curious if any of you know how the old Unix ACL interacts with posix ACL. I > mean, if you have a directory that is using both ACL, which one does the > system use to enforce the permission? I am suspecting both are checked but > one supersede the other, kind of the way Unix ACL are checked before > SElinux. I have googled this morning but don't seem to be having any luck. > > Case in point, I have a jboss folder that I need to manage through a group. > The problem is, if they delete the tmp directory, on restarting jboss, the > directory end up owned by root. Shouldn't it be owned by jboss, being the > default user? > > I should say jboss is currently running as root, something which I plan to > fix by forwarding default port to 443, so don't shot me for that mistake > > [root at dev2-yyz-int ~]# getfacl /opt/application/jboss/server/default/ > getfacl: Removing leading '/' from absolute path names > # file: opt/application/jboss/server/default/ > # owner: jboss > # group: developers > # flags: -s- > user::rwx > group::rwx > group:developers:rwx > mask::rwx > other::r-x > default:user::rwx > default:user:jboss:rwx > default:group::rwx > default:group:developers:rwx > default:mask::rwx > default:other::r-x > > [root at dev3-yyz-int default]# ls -al > total 80 > drwxrwsr-x+ 10 jboss developers 4096 Jan 30 12:00 . > drwxrwsr-x+ 5 jboss developers 4096 Feb 16 2012 .. > drwxrwsr-x+ 4 jboss developers 4096 Jan 8 12:47 conf > drwxrwsr-x+ 5 root developers 4096 Feb 16 2012 data > drwxrwsr-x+ 10 jboss developers 4096 Jan 29 16:35 deploy > drwxrwsr-x+ 5 jboss developers 4096 Apr 11 2012 lib > drwxrwsr-x+ 2 jboss developers 4096 Jan 30 00:00 log > drwxrwsr-x+ 2 jboss developers 4096 Jan 14 16:16 sslcerts > drwxrwsr-x+ 4 root developers 4096 Jan 30 14:11 tmp > drwxrwsr-x+ 3 root developers 4096 Jan 30 12:00 work > > Shouldn't user be jboss on creating a new tmp directory? Anything you can > think that I can do to get those three directory adopt the parent directory > permission? No, the owner and group of the new folder will still be the same under an ACL managed system as it would under a traditional system. (The exception to this would be if you had group +s or BSD semantics enabled as a mount option.) What the ACL does for you is ensure that the default: entries are applied to new files/directories that are created. In other words, the items in the ACL without default: are enforced, while default: entries are inherited. At permission check time, a specific entry in the ACL will override the traditional ugo checks but those checks provide the fallback in case there isn't a specific matching entry that grants (or denies!) the permission. HTH Thanks -Ben -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 02:59:17 2013 From: mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org (Molly Tournquist) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 21:59:17 -0500 Subject: $35 LAN Party... Message-ID: <20130131025918.261850@gmx.com> It's an awfully conventional arangement(which could be interpreted as stale). You're still dealing with a somewhat awkward, less-than-neat bundle of components. For one thing, it's a bit odd to for everyone to have keyboards in an arangement where they can just talk to each otyher. I'm under the impression that people are already doing this kind of thing with laptops. Don't get me wrong, it's not at all unexpected that rapberry pis will be used MOSTLY for gaming, but what seems fitting is something stranger and specialized. ?Well, technically you don't need a keyboard and LCD monitor to play quake 3, but... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Colin McGregor > Sent: 01/28/13 08:12 PM > This is all a long way round to ask if there would be an interest in a > Raspberry Pi (the $35 (US) computer) "Open Arena" > (http://store.raspberrypi.com/projects/openarena?adult) LAN party? > Okay, you can't get a Raspberry Pi fully running for $35 (you need a > keyboard, mouse, SD card, power supply, etc.), but still... In other > words, reasonable cost for entry, plus carrying a Raspberry Pi, > keyboard, mouse, LCD monitor, etc. (assuming you don't go for say a > 50" screen) could all be done in a typical knapsack / canvas shopping > bag. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 03:26:12 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 22:26:12 -0500 Subject: Unix permission coexistence with posix acl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ben > > At permission check time, a specific entry in the ACL will override > the traditional ugo checks but those checks provide the fallback in > case there isn't a specific matching entry that grants (or denies!) > the permission. > Thanks, this knowledge help when trying to figure why things are not working. In short, where traditional acl differ with POSIX acl, POSIX acl win. William > HTH > > Thanks > -Ben > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, > truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. > > -Christopher Hitchens > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chislon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 04:59:38 2013 From: chislon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Chow, Chislon) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 23:59:38 -0500 Subject: Booting Linux using UEFI can brick Samsung laptops Message-ID: Hi, Just read this and thought it deserves some attention: H-Online article: Booting Linux using UEFI can brick Samsung laptops http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Booting-Linux-using-UEFI-can-brick-Samsung-laptops-1793958.html Quote "Linux and Bricks Booting Linux using UEFI just once on various Samsung laptops is enough to permanently stop them working.... the problem is likely to also be present in other Linux distributions, as it appears to be caused by a kernel driver for Samsung laptops. Kernel developers are currently discussing a change which would disable the driver when booting via UEFI." Affects models such as: Samsung 530U3C, 300E5C, NP700Z5C, NP700Z7C and NP900X4C series laptops Relevant Ubuntu bug on Launchpad https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage/+bug/1040557?comments=all Cheers, Chislon Chow -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 11:44:32 2013 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 06:44:32 -0500 Subject: 10 Myths About Systemd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:21 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'd be interested in an in-depth talk about the plumbing of systemd: > what happens underneath. Systemd seems to be more than just an init > replacement, it seems to be the conductor of the system. Hugh, Lennart Poettering will be giving one of two systemd presentations this weekend at FOSDEM, as well as a couple of talks at DevConf.cz late in February. I'll be at the latter for a GNOME docs hackfest--I can ask Lennart if he's ever in Toronto on a Tuesday. Here's the latest installment of his systemd for Administrators (the previous 18 are linked near the top): http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/detect-virt.html Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 14:42:14 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:42:14 -0500 Subject: Booting Linux using UEFI can brick Samsung laptops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 31 Jan 2013 00:00, "Chow, Chislon" wrote: > > Hi, > > Just read this and thought it deserves some attention: > H-Online article: Booting Linux using UEFI can brick Samsung laptops > http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Booting-Linux-using-UEFI-can-brick-Samsung-laptops-1793958.html > > Quote > "Linux and Bricks Booting Linux using UEFI just once on various > Samsung laptops is enough to permanently stop them working.... the > problem is likely to also be present in other Linux distributions, as > it appears to be caused by a kernel driver for Samsung laptops. Kernel > developers are currently discussing a change which would disable the > driver when booting via UEFI." > Ha, its new. If its bricked, just ship it back and get another one:) By the way, it seem secure boot is not yet a big problem. If you want to duo boot Windows 8, disable uefi, reinstall window8 on legacy BIOS and you can then run any Linux system alongside it. Not that I have used windows 8 more than an hour, was just an exercise to satisfy my curiosity William > Affects models such as: > Samsung 530U3C, 300E5C, NP700Z5C, NP700Z7C and NP900X4C series laptops > > Relevant Ubuntu bug on Launchpad > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage/+bug/1040557?comments=all > > > Cheers, > > > Chislon Chow > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 14:47:59 2013 From: williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Weaver) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:47:59 -0500 Subject: Booting Linux using UEFI can brick Samsung laptops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's not entirely necessary. It depends on what distro you are installing. For example Fedora 18 now usees a shim so that it can be run with secure boot enabled using UEFI instad of legacy mode. It makes dual booting with Windows 8 alot easier, and you still get the speed increase. Also keep in mind that while not every linux distro supports UEFI booting, ex. Fuduntu, not every laptop supports legacy mode. Personally I was limited to only using UEFI compatable distros with my laptop because it doesn't have a legacy mode. Will Weaver On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 9:42 AM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > On 31 Jan 2013 00:00, "Chow, Chislon" wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Just read this and thought it deserves some attention: > > H-Online article: Booting Linux using UEFI can brick Samsung laptops > > > http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Booting-Linux-using-UEFI-can-brick-Samsung-laptops-1793958.html > > > > Quote > > "Linux and Bricks Booting Linux using UEFI just once on various > > Samsung laptops is enough to permanently stop them working.... the > > problem is likely to also be present in other Linux distributions, as > > it appears to be caused by a kernel driver for Samsung laptops. Kernel > > developers are currently discussing a change which would disable the > > driver when booting via UEFI." > > > Ha, its new. If its bricked, just ship it back and get another one:) > > By the way, it seem secure boot is not yet a big problem. If you want to > duo boot Windows 8, disable uefi, reinstall window8 on legacy BIOS and you > can then run any Linux system alongside it. > > Not that I have used windows 8 more than an hour, was just an exercise to > satisfy my curiosity > > William > > > Affects models such as: > > Samsung 530U3C, 300E5C, NP700Z5C, NP700Z7C and NP900X4C series laptops > > > > Relevant Ubuntu bug on Launchpad > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage/+bug/1040557?comments=all > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Chislon Chow > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 15:35:51 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:35:51 -0500 Subject: Unix permission coexistence with posix acl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130131153551.GW1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 07:33:38PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > Hello pals, > > Curious if any of you know how the old Unix ACL interacts with posix ACL. I > mean, if you have a directory that is using both ACL, which one does the > system use to enforce the permission? I am suspecting both are checked but > one supersede the other, kind of the way Unix ACL are checked before > SElinux. I have googled this morning but don't seem to be having any luck. > > Case in point, I have a jboss folder that I need to manage through a group. > The problem is, if they delete the tmp directory, on restarting jboss, the > directory end up owned by root. Shouldn't it be owned by jboss, being the > default user? > > I should say jboss is currently running as root, something which I plan to > fix by forwarding default port to 443, so don't shot me for that mistake > > [root at dev2-yyz-int ~]# getfacl /opt/application/jboss/server/default/ > getfacl: Removing leading '/' from absolute path names > # file: opt/application/jboss/server/default/ > # owner: jboss > # group: developers > # flags: -s- > user::rwx > group::rwx > group:developers:rwx > mask::rwx > other::r-x > default:user::rwx > default:user:jboss:rwx > default:group::rwx > default:group:developers:rwx > default:mask::rwx > default:other::r-x > > [root at dev3-yyz-int default]# ls -al > total 80 > drwxrwsr-x+ 10 jboss developers 4096 Jan 30 12:00 . > drwxrwsr-x+ 5 jboss developers 4096 Feb 16 2012 .. > drwxrwsr-x+ 4 jboss developers 4096 Jan 8 12:47 conf > drwxrwsr-x+ 5 root developers 4096 Feb 16 2012 data > drwxrwsr-x+ 10 jboss developers 4096 Jan 29 16:35 deploy > drwxrwsr-x+ 5 jboss developers 4096 Apr 11 2012 lib > drwxrwsr-x+ 2 jboss developers 4096 Jan 30 00:00 log > drwxrwsr-x+ 2 jboss developers 4096 Jan 14 16:16 sslcerts > drwxrwsr-x+ 4 root developers 4096 Jan 30 14:11 tmp > drwxrwsr-x+ 3 root developers 4096 Jan 30 12:00 work > > Shouldn't user be jboss on creating a new tmp directory? Anything you can > think that I can do to get those three directory adopt the parent > directory permission? setgid on a directory forced anything created to inherit the group. There is no way to do the same for owner of the file. Whoever creates it, owns it. FreeBSD allows setuid on directories to do the same thing to owner of the file, but linux and other unix systems do not. There is no 'default user' concept in posix acl or unix acl (except on freebsd). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 15:38:32 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:38:32 -0500 Subject: Booting Linux using UEFI can brick Samsung laptops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130131153832.GX1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 09:47:59AM -0500, William Weaver wrote: > That's not entirely necessary. It depends on what distro you are > installing. For example Fedora 18 now usees a shim so that it can be run > with secure boot enabled using UEFI instad of legacy mode. It makes dual > booting with Windows 8 alot easier, and you still get the speed increase. What speed increase? Besides you can just turn of secure boot and leave UEFI enabled and be perfectly happy. Don't even have to reinstall windows then. > Also keep in mind that while not every linux distro supports UEFI booting, > ex. Fuduntu, not every laptop supports legacy mode. Personally I was > limited to only using UEFI compatable distros with my laptop because it > doesn't have a legacy mode. Wow a laptop that can't run 32bit windows at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 15:51:44 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:51:44 -0500 Subject: Little Linux Box Bits... In-Reply-To: <20130131001944.261850-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20130131001944.261850@gmx.com> Message-ID: <20130131155144.GY1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 07:19:43PM -0500, Molly Tournquist wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Colin McGregor > > Sent: 01/26/13 04:04 PM > > > > My take on "Quake III" the game "Open Arena" is based on can be seen > > here : ftp://ftp.linuxjournal.com/pub/tux/tux017.pdf . > > > > > > >...way of coping with stress > There's a worrying bias, shoving under the rug that potential for spinning escapism by writing it off as a neat, cut and dry pressure valve. Escapism as one negative side among many potential big contexts, gaming has become a humongous thing. > > Sorry about however you were pushed into weaving in that slant. I think the sudo advice is just insane. Add all user to sudo with permission to do everything? Why would someone recommend such a thing? Terrible advice. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 16:08:00 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:08:00 -0500 Subject: 10 Myths About Systemd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Michael Hill wrote: > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 7:21 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> I'd be interested in an in-depth talk about the plumbing of systemd: >> what happens underneath. Systemd seems to be more than just an init >> replacement, it seems to be the conductor of the system. > > Hugh, Lennart Poettering will be giving one of two systemd > presentations this weekend at FOSDEM, as well as a couple of talks at > DevConf.cz late in February. I'll be at the latter for a GNOME docs > hackfest--I can ask Lennart if he's ever in Toronto on a Tuesday. > > Here's the latest installment of his systemd for Administrators (the > previous 18 are linked near the top): > > http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/detect-virt.html The most cogent counterargument that I have seen is this one: There are definitely some things there worth quibbling with. The notable one is where PAPPP complains: "This program is not intended to be used by scripts or other programs" That would be fair comment were it not that there's an intended "out" for scripts and other programs to use, namely udisks2-daemon There are complaints about udisks2-daemon: http://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/03/11/udisks2-another-loss-for-linux/ I'm not sure (see docs: ) if it is the case that the "published accesses" are inadequate. There's also a "flame war" that has harvested things that seem worth looking at: I think it's a fascinating idea to consider replacing traditional init with something else, and have long thought it to be so. But it's not obvious to me that the direction taken with systemd is quite right. It sure looks like it's being created for the convenience of certain applications, rather than broad improvement of the "initialization condition," which seems wrong. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 16:44:05 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:44:05 -0500 Subject: At my whit's end. Seeking greener ISP pastures Message-ID: <20130131164405.GA13860@watson-wilson.ca> Greetings, This past year my DSL service has been worse than the previous 12 years. Bell accidentally disconnected my phone for 36 Horus in the spring. For the past 12 days my DSL connection is suffering latency and packet loss. I'm not blaming my ISP. They are victim of Bell service just as I am. It's time to look at what? I'm in Markham. Roger's business internet with a static IP (required) is only 8/2Mbs and costs $20 more per month than 10/2Mbs with a dynamic IP. Maddening. Are there other options? -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 16:46:14 2013 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:46:14 -0500 Subject: At my whit's end. Seeking greener ISP pastures In-Reply-To: <20130131164405.GA13860-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130131164405.GA13860@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Have you looked at teksavvy cable? I'm in Markham and had DSL, but found that i'd lose my connection every time it rained. Switched to cable and its been great ever since. On 2013-01-31 11:44 AM, "Neil Watson" wrote: > Greetings, > > This past year my DSL service has been worse than the previous 12 years. > Bell accidentally disconnected my phone for 36 Horus in the spring. For > the past 12 days my DSL connection is suffering latency and packet > loss. I'm not blaming my ISP. They are victim of Bell service just > as I am. > > It's time to look at what? I'm in Markham. Roger's business internet > with a static IP (required) is only 8/2Mbs and costs $20 more per > month than 10/2Mbs with a dynamic IP. Maddening. Are there other > options? > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 16:55:37 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:55:37 -0500 Subject: At my whit's end. Seeking greener ISP pastures In-Reply-To: <20130131164405.GA13860-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130131164405.GA13860@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <510AA209.50408@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > It's time to look at what? I'm in Markham. Roger's business internet > with a static IP (required) is only 8/2Mbs and costs $20 more per > month than 10/2Mbs with a dynamic IP. Maddening. Are there other > options? Is a static address really required? With Rogers, your host name is determined by your modem and firewall MAC addresses. So, if all you need is a consistent address, you've got it. If you want a shorter host name that the one you get from Rogers, just set up an alias on a DNS server that points to that name. Also, on Rogers, IP addresses change so seldom, they're virtually static. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 17:03:53 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:03:53 -0500 Subject: At my whit's end. Seeking greener ISP pastures In-Reply-To: <510AA209.50408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130131164405.GA13860@watson-wilson.ca> <510AA209.50408@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130131170353.GA15651@watson-wilson.ca> I run a business server out of my home office. A static IP is required. Teksaavy does not offer static IP's with cable. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 17:10:04 2013 From: williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Weaver) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:10:04 -0500 Subject: At my whit's end. Seeking greener ISP pastures In-Reply-To: <20130131170353.GA15651-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130131164405.GA13860@watson-wilson.ca> <510AA209.50408@rogers.com> <20130131170353.GA15651@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Dynamic DNS resolution wouldn't work for you? ex. DynDNS Will On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > I run a business server out of my home office. A static IP is required. > Teksaavy does not offer static IP's with cable. > > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 17:16:05 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:16:05 -0500 Subject: At my whit's end. Seeking greener ISP pastures In-Reply-To: References: <20130131164405.GA13860@watson-wilson.ca> <510AA209.50408@rogers.com> <20130131170353.GA15651@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:10 PM, William Weaver wrote: > Dynamic DNS resolution wouldn't work for you? > > ex. DynDNS DynDNS (http://dyn.com/) are now $20/yr for the minimal level of service. I'd suggest looking at Afraid.org instead. They have ~650K zones to choose from, which helps dictate *against* them pulling a bait-and-switch, because those hundreds of thousands of zones Don't Belong To Them, but rather belong to customers. If they baited-and-switched, the zones would tend to go away on them. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 17:20:31 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:20:31 -0500 Subject: At my whit's end. Seeking greener ISP pastures In-Reply-To: <20130131170353.GA15651-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130131164405.GA13860@watson-wilson.ca> <510AA209.50408@rogers.com> <20130131170353.GA15651@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <510AA7DF.9060404@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > I run a business server out of my home office. A static IP is required. > Teksaavy does not offer static IP's with cable. Again, do you actually need a static address or just a consistent host name. Do your customers reach you via IP address or host name? I get DNS service through Google Apps for $10/year. I created an alias on it that points to the long host name I get from Rogers. I also have AAAA records on it for my IPv6 addresses. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 31 19:13:50 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:13:50 -0500 Subject: At my whit's end. Seeking greener ISP pastures In-Reply-To: <20130131164405.GA13860-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130131164405.GA13860@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20130131191350.GZ1769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:44:05AM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > Greetings, > > This past year my DSL service has been worse than the previous 12 years. > Bell accidentally disconnected my phone for 36 Horus in the spring. For > the past 12 days my DSL connection is suffering latency and packet > loss. I'm not blaming my ISP. They are victim of Bell service just > as I am. > > It's time to look at what? I'm in Markham. Roger's business internet > with a static IP (required) is only 8/2Mbs and costs $20 more per > month than 10/2Mbs with a dynamic IP. Maddening. Are there other > options? I currently have the VDSL2 25/7Mbit using teksavvy. Being that it is VDSL2, the DSLAM is down the street, which eliminates most of the bad phone line and distance issues that DSL has traditionally had. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists