From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 1 02:32:04 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 21:32:04 -0500 Subject: Meeting Monday: Encrypting email with GPG and Thunderbird In-Reply-To: <20131130123711.GB6791@nb-laryngitis> References: <20131130123711.GB6791@nb-laryngitis> Message-ID: <529A9FA4.7040401@sobac.com> Hi Everyone: At the next KWLUG meeting I'm doing a presentation on elementary Crypto. I'd like to invite anyone nearby the Kitchener-Waterloo area (in Canada) to drop in to the meeting, and participate in the keysigning afterward. Below is the message I sent to KWLUG; below that is the meeting announcement from Paul Nijjar. Hope to see you Monday! --Bob. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [kwlug-disc] Preparing for the Keysigning on 2 December Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 13:14:25 -0500 From: Bob Jonkman To: KWLUG discussion , KWCrypto-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Hi Everyone: At the next KWLUG meeting I'm demonstrating how to do e-mail encryption with Thunderbird and Enigmail. If you've never used e-mail encryption before then bring a laptop, and we'll create keys and learn how to use them. We'll save the lesson with pointy sticks for another day. For those people who already have GnuPG/PGP keys I'm also hosting a Formal Keysigning. Participants will introduce themselves, read their GnuPG key fingerprint, then anyone else is invited to vouch for that person: Bob: "I'm Bob Jonkman, and my GnuPG fingerprint is 04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA" Andrew: "I've known Bob since the early days, and that's really him" This is a great way to expand your Web Of Trust to include people whose keys you might not otherwise sign (because you don't know them very well, or they only have ID issued by an authority you don't like). With all these introductions and vouchings the chance of someone misrepresenting their identity is vanishingly small, so you can trust that the key fingerprint they read is really associated with that person. To make this process go smoothly I'd like to have a printout of all the participants' keyIDs, UIDs, and key fingerprints, which I'll distribute at the keysigning. That way you can just check off each name/keyID/fingerprint as people read them, and then sign their keys later at your leisure. But to get that printout I'll need the public key of anyone who would like to participate in the keysigning. If you're using Thunderbird and Enigmail then open the Key Management window, right-click on your key and select "Send Public Keys by E-mail", and send it to me ( bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org ) If you're a command-line weenie then use gpg --export 0xYOURKEYID > 0xYOURKEYID-public-key-for-YOURNAME.pgp and send that file "0xYOURKEYID-public-key-for-YOURNAME.pgp" to me (substitute your actual keyID and actual name as needed). Of course, I'd prefer signed, encrypted e-mail, but public keys are public (so encryption isn't necessary), and public keys should already be self-signed anyway. Unfortunately, if you're creating your keys for the first time at the meeting you won't be able to send me anything now. You can still participate in the vouching process, and we'll have an _in_formal keysigning after the formal keysigning, where all you need to do is read your fingerprint straight from your computer and those people who already know you can sign your key. I'm still working on the procedures for the formal keysigning; you can see the work in progress (and contribute!) at http://sobac.com/wiki/index.php/Formal_Keysigning Thanx, and hope to see you next week! --Bob, who is the Keymaster. Who will be the Gatekeeper? On 13-11-30 07:37 AM, Paul Nijjar wrote: > > I know, I know: sending an email is just like sending a postcard. > Like postcards, emails describe happy times and quick notes intended > to provoke envy. Like postcards, emails contain joyful pictures of > cultural fnord landmarks. Like postcards, emails should always be > signed. Since I did not sign this meeting announcement, how do you > know that I wrote it? Can you actually be sure that I am sitting on a > sunny Nova Scotian beach sipping fruity beverages? Maybe this is all > a sham. Maybe some nefarious organization intercepted this meeting > announcement and inserted unwholesome messages? It's enough to > provoke existential angst. > > Fortunately, this month Bob Jonkman will demonstrate ways to prove > that we actually exist. In particular, he will fnord show us the hows > and whys of encrypting emails with GPG and the Enigmail plugin for > Thunderbird. He will reveal the secrets of why to encrypt email, how > cryptography works, and how he manages to communicate with Alice. > > > If you are already a keysigning wizard then Bob would like you to > participate in the formal keysigning party he is running for the > evening. If you are a keysigning newbie who can struggle through the > keysigning instructions, then Bob would also like you to participate > in the party. He has put together a Party Protocol document here: > > http://sobac.com/wiki/index.php/Formal_Keysigning > > > I don't know why you should believe me when I write this, but in > other news there are a couple of opportunities to learn scripting > and programming this month: > > - On Dec 4, Stephen Paul Weber is running a shell-scripting class > targetted at "absolute beginners". Admission is free (with donations > to Kwartzlab appreciated) and open to the public, but you might want > to contact Stephen to make sure there is a spot for you. You can > find more details here: > http://kwartzlab.ca/pipermail/discuss_kwartzlab.ca/2013-November/001941.html > > > - On Dec 7, the Hackademy people are running an "Introduction to > Python Programming" course, which is notable because frequent KWLUG > presenter Raul Suarez (and onetime presenter Kareem Shehata) will be > leading the course. As with other Hackademy courses, this class > costs money, but if the cost is an issue there are scholarships > available. Visit http://hackademy.ca for more info. (Conflict of > interest disclaimer: I may also be offering a course through > Hackademy at some point.) > > As always, people on the KWLUG discussion list > (http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org) are around > to engage in arbitrary FLOSS related (and scripting-related) > discussion, and there fnord are more tech events than you would > believe listed on the Watcamp events calendar: > http://watcamp.com/calendar > > Believe it or not, that's it except for the logistics of the meeting. > As usual, it will be held at: > > St John's Kitchen 97 Victoria Street North (corner of Victoria and > Weber) Kitchener > > Doors open around 6:30pm, and setup helpers are greatly appreciated. > The meeting starts at 7pm. You can park your T-bird somewhere in the > midst of the Weber St construction rubble (try the thrift store > parking lot), and there is bike parking along the side of the > building. Find more location information at > http://kwlug.org/node/709 > > Wish you were here! > > - Paul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 2 18:00:47 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 13:00:47 -0500 Subject: Thinkpad T440s: do I want a m.2 msata ssd? Message-ID: I have just bought a new lenovo thinkpad t440s, and am expecting it in a couple of weeks. I'm feeling a little bored/frustrated with ubuntu (I guess mostly irritated over this Mir thing) and I think I will install Arch and maybe KDE just to see what they're like (I mostly use emacs, web browsers, and thunderbird, so my DE isn't really all that important for me, though I do like a decent desktop search). When configuring this beast i declined to buy the 16G M.2 msata drive that lenovo offers a an add-on, thinking I could just install one later and likely for a lot less. That turns out to be true, and e.g. this 42mm device from amazon is quite a bit larger than what they offered (http://www.amazon.com/MyDigitalSSD-Super-Cache-Solid-State/dp/B00EZ2E8NO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386005926&sr=8-1&keywords=m.2+ssd) Here are a couple of questions: 1. I was thinking I would put the OS on the mSATA and keep the main 256G SATA disk for /home. Does this sound sensible? 2. The original 16G mSATA is used "for caching purposes only" according to the tech specs. What exactly does this mean? Is this something we can use under Linux? And is there any reason to believe one would or would not be able to boot from one of these drives? thanks as always! Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 2 18:09:09 2013 From: williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Weaver) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 13:09:09 -0500 Subject: Thinkpad T440s: do I want a m.2 msata ssd? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have the same thing with my laptop. When I ran my partitioner it showed up as just another drive that I wiped and installed Fedora on. Something to keep in mind with it is that it might not be as fast as other SSDs as it is for backup purposes. Also I do not believe it's intended to be read and written to as often as a primary OS drive would be. Works for me but YMMV. Good luck, Will On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Matt Price wrote: > I have just bought a new lenovo thinkpad t440s, and am expecting it in > a couple of weeks. I'm feeling a little bored/frustrated with ubuntu > (I guess mostly irritated over this Mir thing) and I think I will > install Arch and maybe KDE just to see what they're like (I mostly use > emacs, web browsers, and thunderbird, so my DE isn't really all that > important for me, though I do like a decent desktop search). > > When configuring this beast i declined to buy the 16G M.2 msata drive > that lenovo offers a an add-on, thinking I could just install one > later and likely for a lot less. > > That turns out to be true, and e.g. this 42mm device from amazon is > quite a bit larger than what they offered > ( > http://www.amazon.com/MyDigitalSSD-Super-Cache-Solid-State/dp/B00EZ2E8NO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386005926&sr=8-1&keywords=m.2+ssd > ) > > Here are a couple of questions: > > 1. I was thinking I would put the OS on the mSATA and keep the main > 256G SATA disk for /home. Does this sound sensible? > > 2. The original 16G mSATA is used "for caching purposes only" > according to the tech specs. What exactly does this mean? Is this > something we can use under Linux? And is there any reason to believe > one would or would not be able to boot from one of these drives? > > thanks as always! > > Matt > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 2 22:09:59 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 17:09:59 -0500 Subject: Thinkpad T440s: do I want a m.2 msata ssd? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131202220959.GH20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Dec 02, 2013 at 01:00:47PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > I have just bought a new lenovo thinkpad t440s, and am expecting it in > a couple of weeks. I'm feeling a little bored/frustrated with ubuntu > (I guess mostly irritated over this Mir thing) and I think I will > install Arch and maybe KDE just to see what they're like (I mostly use > emacs, web browsers, and thunderbird, so my DE isn't really all that > important for me, though I do like a decent desktop search). > > When configuring this beast i declined to buy the 16G M.2 msata drive > that lenovo offers a an add-on, thinking I could just install one > later and likely for a lot less. > > That turns out to be true, and e.g. this 42mm device from amazon is > quite a bit larger than what they offered > (http://www.amazon.com/MyDigitalSSD-Super-Cache-Solid-State/dp/B00EZ2E8NO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386005926&sr=8-1&keywords=m.2+ssd) > > Here are a couple of questions: > > 1. I was thinking I would put the OS on the mSATA and keep the main > 256G SATA disk for /home. Does this sound sensible? > > 2. The original 16G mSATA is used "for caching purposes only" > according to the tech specs. What exactly does this mean? Is this > something we can use under Linux? And is there any reason to believe > one would or would not be able to boot from one of these drives? That is just how Windows chooses to use it in the default setup. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 2 22:58:17 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 17:58:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Thinkpad T440s: do I want a m.2 msata ssd? In-Reply-To: <20131202220959.GH20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131202220959.GH20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | > 2. The original 16G mSATA is used "for caching purposes only" | > according to the tech specs. What exactly does this mean? Is this | > something we can use under Linux? And is there any reason to believe | > one would or would not be able to boot from one of these drives? | | That is just how Windows chooses to use it in the default setup. I think that Intel has some trademarked "technology" to do this. I assume that it is just a driver thing (for Windows). 16G is big enough for just the OS. Not a stupid setup. But would not buy a 16G mSATA drive. The sweet spot (price/size) shifts, but I think that 120G is a pretty good choice these days. Don't get it from Lenovo -- try NCIX, Canada Computers, NewEgg, Memory Express, etc. You may choose to wait for a sale. Superstition: SSD fails more drastically than HDD. Even more incentive to get your backup system right. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 3 14:54:34 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 09:54:34 -0500 Subject: Thinkpad T440s: do I want a m.2 msata ssd? In-Reply-To: References: <20131202220959.GH20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 5:58 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | > 2. The original 16G mSATA is used "for caching purposes only" > | > according to the tech specs. What exactly does this mean? Is this > | > something we can use under Linux? And is there any reason to believe > | > one would or would not be able to boot from one of these drives? > | > | That is just how Windows chooses to use it in the default setup. > > I think that Intel has some trademarked "technology" to do this. I > assume that it is just a driver thing (for Windows). > > 16G is big enough for just the OS. Not a stupid setup. > > But would not buy a 16G mSATA drive. The sweet spot (price/size) > shifts, but I think that 120G is a pretty good choice these days. Don't > get it from Lenovo -- try NCIX, Canada Computers, NewEgg, Memory Express, > etc. You may choose to wait for a sale. because this laptop uses the 42mm M.2 standard, there aren't a lot of choices; actually amazon was the only vendor I could really find! > > Superstition: SSD fails more drastically than HDD. Even more > incentive to get your backup system right. yep, better get to work on that... > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 3 15:55:30 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 10:55:30 -0500 Subject: Thinkpad T440s: do I want a m.2 msata ssd? In-Reply-To: References: <20131202220959.GH20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131203155530.GI20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 09:54:34AM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > because this laptop uses the 42mm M.2 standard, there aren't a lot of > choices; actually amazon was the only vendor I could really find! Intel has a 240GB M.2, but it is an 80mm. http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=88398 So too big. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 4 00:21:46 2013 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 19:21:46 -0500 Subject: Curious Message-ID: Hi Guys, I have a question, does anyone know a really cheap sound card solution that works with spdif-coxial for a Linux Laptop? I have an X201 but there docking system doesn't have Coaxial. I'm guessing it has to be USB, But for me if its not really cheap I can't get it. Does anyone have one working currently? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 4 16:50:40 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 11:50:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Curious In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Dave Germiquet | I have a question, does anyone know a really cheap sound card solution | that works with spdif-coxial for a Linux Laptop? "solution"? Sounds like marketing-talk :-) Speaking of which, you might get some more interesting and useful alternatives presenting us with the problem not the solution. To be honest, I'm so out of it that I don't know where S/PDIF is used vs. TOSLINK and why. I think in that in terms of specs, it is a tos-up. But some worlds use one, and some the other. | I'm guessing it has to be USB, But for me if its not really cheap I can't | get it. Googling leads me to think that this kind of device would often be targetted at audiophiles (i.e. expensive and pretty good). But there are some cheap-ish things of unknown quality such as -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 4 17:17:20 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 12:17:20 -0500 Subject: OT: Curious In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <529F63A0.8020302@utoronto.ca> On 04/12/13 11:50 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Dave Germiquet > > | I have a question, does anyone know a really cheap sound card solution > | that works with spdif-coxial for a Linux Laptop? > > "solution"? Sounds like marketing-talk :-) > > Speaking of which, you might get some more interesting and useful > alternatives presenting us with the problem not the solution. > > To be honest, I'm so out of it that I don't know where S/PDIF is used > vs. TOSLINK and why. I think in that in terms of specs, it is a > tos-up. But some worlds use one, and some the other. S/PDIF is the specification for the digital properties of a signal; TOSLINK is the physical connector format. S/PDIF can use coax cable or optical TOSLINK depending on equipment. TOSLINK is used by other standards as well IIRC, it being just the connector format. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 4 21:31:50 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 16:31:50 -0500 Subject: Curious In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131204213150.GJ20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 07:21:46PM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I have a question, does anyone know a really cheap sound card solution > that works with spdif-coxial for a Linux Laptop? I have an X201 but there > docking system doesn't have Coaxial. > > I'm guessing it has to be USB, But for me if its not really cheap I can't > get it. > > Does anyone have one working currently? Would something like this work I wonder: http://www.muse-audio.com/hifi-pcm2704-usb-to-s-pdif-converter-dac-sound-card-21.html Or this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MUSE-PCM-2704-HIFI-USB-to-S-PDIF-Converter-USB-DAC-/171091460066 That one seems to have every connector. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 4 21:43:42 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 16:43:42 -0500 Subject: Curious In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <529FA20E.8070300@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Googling leads me to think that this kind of device would often be > targetted at audiophiles (i.e. expensive and pretty good). And also expensive and nonsense, such as Monster cables. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 4 22:08:48 2013 From: cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Charles Philip Chan) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:08:48 -0500 Subject: Curious In-Reply-To: (Dave Germiquet's message of "Tue, 3 Dec 2013 19:21:46 -0500") References: Message-ID: <8738m8mfpr.fsf@karnak.MagnumOpus.khem> Dave Germiquet writes: Hi Dave: > I have a question, does anyone know a really cheap sound card solution > that works with spdif-coxial for a Linux Laptop? I have an X201 but > there docking system doesn't have Coaxial. Both the Behringer UCA-202 and UCA-222 work with Linux: http://jamie.lentin.co.uk/peripherals/behringer-uca-222/ It seems the only difference between the two is the software included (which you don't need). You can buy the UCA-202 at Canada Computers: http://www.canadacomputers.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=UCA202&x=0&y=0 Charles -- "However, complexity is not always the enemy." -- Larry Wall (Open Sources, 1999 O'Reilly and Associates) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 4 22:08:35 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 17:08:35 -0500 Subject: Curious In-Reply-To: <529FA20E.8070300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <529FA20E.8070300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20131204220835.GA129080@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> If you're going to pay more money then consider the Audio Thingee. I got mine when I became fed up with the pain of sound cards and Linux. Mine is USB to to RCA and it works great. There are many variations. http://www.bluecircle.com/page81.html -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 4 22:22:21 2013 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:22:21 -0500 Subject: Curious In-Reply-To: <20131204220835.GA129080-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> References: <529FA20E.8070300@rogers.com> <20131204220835.GA129080@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <529FAB1D.5070809@gmail.com> Probably not what you're looking for but for $400 you can't go wrong. I use Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 100 with my stereo. Linux works fine with it. Windows needs a driver. http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/dacmagic-100-digital-to-analogue-converter Randy Do not ask who I am and do not ask me to remain the same: leave it to our bureaucrats and our police to see that our papers are in order. At least spare us their morality when we write. --Michel Foucault -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 4 22:47:58 2013 From: cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Charles Philip Chan) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:47:58 -0500 Subject: Curious In-Reply-To: <20131204220835.GA129080-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> (Neil Watson's message of "Wed, 4 Dec 2013 17:08:35 -0500") References: <529FA20E.8070300@rogers.com> <20131204220835.GA129080@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <87siu8kzc1.fsf@karnak.MagnumOpus.khem> Neil Watson writes: > If you're going to pay more money then consider the Audio Thingee. I got > mine when I became fed up with the pain of sound cards and Linux. What pain? It is as easy as using your distro's hardware setup utility or running alsaconf. For example, it took me less than a minute to setup my M-Audio Revolution 7.1. This is not the bad OSS or early Alsa days. Charles -- "Are [Linux users] lemmings collectively jumping off of the cliff of reliable, well-engineered commercial software?" (By Matt Welsh) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 4 23:30:00 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 18:30:00 -0500 Subject: Curious In-Reply-To: <87siu8kzc1.fsf-9phBAWW2zyva4KzsAcDjjBXPhzvc4K0h@public.gmane.org> References: <529FA20E.8070300@rogers.com> <20131204220835.GA129080@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <87siu8kzc1.fsf@karnak.MagnumOpus.khem> Message-ID: <20131204233000.GA12253@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Dec 04, 2013 at 05:47:58PM -0500, Charles Philip Chan wrote: >Neil Watson writes: > >> If you're going to pay more money then consider the Audio Thingee. I got >> mine when I became fed up with the pain of sound cards and Linux. > >What pain? It is as easy as using your distro's hardware setup utility I have had audio stop working many times over the years with multiple hardware types. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 00:07:17 2013 From: cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Charles Philip Chan) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:07:17 -0500 Subject: Curious In-Reply-To: <20131204233000.GA12253-ajb9/b42oWj7qFZT6RBq9oSPOIov7LNK@public.gmane.org> (Neil Watson's message of "Wed, 4 Dec 2013 18:30:00 -0500") References: <529FA20E.8070300@rogers.com> <20131204220835.GA129080@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> <87siu8kzc1.fsf@karnak.MagnumOpus.khem> <20131204233000.GA12253@ettin.watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <87bo0wkvnu.fsf@karnak.MagnumOpus.khem> Neil Watson writes: Hi Neil: > I have had audio stop working many times over the years with multiple > hardware types. Strange, this has never happened to me. I have used Linux since the early days with OSS and a SB Live! card. Your problems might stem from distros using alpha releases of Pulseaudio which has nothing to do with ALSA. I always turn Pulseaudio off with a new installation and use ALSA directly. Charles -- Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on. (Unknown source) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 00:48:16 2013 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:48:16 -0500 Subject: Linux, Sound/Video, Receiver, DLNA Server Message-ID: <529FCD50.40807@rogers.com> The "Curious" thread motivated me to report on my sound set-up that I am very happy with. I started using a PS3 for Blu-ray and also as a DLNA client, and it fed to my home theatre receiver via HDMI. It was connected to my network, and thereby my Linux box which serves up music and video. I sold the PS3 because it would not accept Flac music (transcoding required) and coughed on some video formats. Open source program, Mediatomb is my DLNA server. I bought a Panasonic Blu-ray disc player, Model DMP-BD89 for about $90 to replace the PS3. It understands Flac so lossless sound is delivered to my receiver. Never a problem with video. With the Panasonic online menu I just scroll through my directory structure and select the folder I want to play. Easy to create a playlist just by putting the music files you want in a special folder. Now the sound chip in my computer tells me when an email arrives. And the odd thing on YouTube. I should add that the Panasonic box also connects to web services like Netflick. Recommended! -- Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 01:08:19 2013 From: cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Charles Philip Chan) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:08:19 -0500 Subject: Linux, Sound/Video, Receiver, DLNA Server In-Reply-To: <529FCD50.40807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> (Stephen's message of "Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:48:16 -0500") References: <529FCD50.40807@rogers.com> Message-ID: <877gbkksu4.fsf@karnak.MagnumOpus.khem> Stephen writes: Hi Stephen: > Open source program, Mediatomb is my DLNA server. +1 for Mediatomb. > I bought a Panasonic Blu-ray disc player, Model DMP-BD89 for about $90 > to replace the PS3. Nice. I myself just got one of these (from Canada Computers, haven't received it yet) for my multimedia needs: http://store.westerndigital.com/store/wdus/en_US/pd/productID.237609800/parid.13092400/catid.13742300/categoryID.57123700 This thing can actually mount nfs and smb shares with a wide codec selection. Charles -- Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO (or Linux) is the answer. (Taken from a .signature from someone from the UK, source unknown) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 01:17:55 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:17:55 -0500 Subject: Linux, Sound/Video, Receiver, DLNA Server In-Reply-To: <877gbkksu4.fsf-9phBAWW2zyva4KzsAcDjjBXPhzvc4K0h@public.gmane.org> References: <529FCD50.40807@rogers.com> <877gbkksu4.fsf@karnak.MagnumOpus.khem> Message-ID: <529FD443.4080906@utoronto.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04/12/13 08:08 PM, Charles Philip Chan wrote: > Nice. I myself just got one of these (from Canada Computers, haven't > received it yet) for my multimedia needs: > > http://store.westerndigital.com/store/wdus/en_US/pd/productID.237609800/parid.13092400/catid.13742300/categoryID.57123700 > > This thing can actually mount nfs and smb shares with a wide codec > selection. This brings Linux to the fore: http://forum.wdlxtv.com/ is the place for homebrew and custom mods to the firmware GPL source that Western Digital release. They have a build system bundled with their sources too I believe, so people on the forum all work with the same base image and customize using the same techniques. It is pretty robust. I use mine to mount my NFS enabled Dlink NAS, which itself uses another open source firmware. So between my DIR-825 router with OpenWRT, DS-320 NAS with Funplug, and WDTV media box with a firmware from that wdlxtv forum, all my systems use Free firmware - except the Teksavvy modem. Cheers, Jamon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSn9RBAAoJEDJp9n+rTckFXmQP/idlPs2e/TVNVUmVRTmTUwkH Zbw0SizmOb68PyQg/mfDEPlwl9lk4cbpoBDBnPF5bq11t/PMGQSS6oNIIp0E+kbH 0crptqvC7gyK05oM+C/k/bPX+T3oXD5Z6thArSlN0h1DbJuFUeYg9zzUB+7AUjeI gw2XjoGxf09xesMA7BDuzGHfnnayXt0+eQDgwLglwHhYNwhTEJyw4ViIS642K5g1 cKeJRpVx7TJ84/4G2OQCZtD0UyJrLBNVb5wQVPZ6TA22gCqCvA9yd+CdAuyWuNCj NVzniUGHUzuQX1uDFeZdb52t8Pg369B7fBNHe9aUQphW5Ias9LqM86OB336NcoLS S2wXMypu3QbVY2HzVYHbdRPqgLVzfhAur4bPXryku6670sxOmA4XSwL3Jsf943Pj YP0ynAgnImy079dyubVFNsiEvYn2ZO5zHOcb14S003IhAMW5i96ojH5mDzoyjzxE mqRdJy8QtUzUx63oGs4EHXMdK0aXSMwOXbgL1frLa1ZB7uki4/5WwF0chSxgdkn2 2OeIT5yisr8xxUGFxCYrQN+onFIP9T7p2AsZSZXMFQqYz/yvNbXkJD4VKufXLx3B AGqWFhYopgwJiGz8t4Ye4+TtCSaoTe8wVvGlnBu1b+kIj3GQo1G0rY0WkOSSOhsL t3YioZ87EvSlc/izdjDI =C187 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 01:43:07 2013 From: cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Charles Philip Chan) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:43:07 -0500 Subject: Linux, Sound/Video, Receiver, DLNA Server In-Reply-To: <529FD443.4080906-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> (Jamon Camisso's message of "Wed, 04 Dec 2013 20:17:55 -0500") References: <529FCD50.40807@rogers.com> <877gbkksu4.fsf@karnak.MagnumOpus.khem> <529FD443.4080906@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <8738m8kr84.fsf@karnak.MagnumOpus.khem> Jamon Camisso writes: Hi Jamon: > This brings Linux to the fore: http://forum.wdlxtv.com/ is the place for > homebrew and custom mods to the firmware GPL source that Western Digital > release. They have a build system bundled with their sources too I > believe, so people on the forum all work with the same base image and > customize using the same techniques. It is pretty robust. Thanks for the info- didn't know about the forum. Now I am really excited. Charles -- Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on. (Unknown source) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 19:15:45 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 14:15:45 -0500 Subject: Curious In-Reply-To: <8738m8mfpr.fsf-9phBAWW2zyva4KzsAcDjjBXPhzvc4K0h@public.gmane.org> References: <8738m8mfpr.fsf@karnak.MagnumOpus.khem> Message-ID: <20131205191545.GK20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Dec 04, 2013 at 05:08:48PM -0500, Charles Philip Chan wrote: > Dave Germiquet writes: > > Hi Dave: > > > I have a question, does anyone know a really cheap sound card solution > > that works with spdif-coxial for a Linux Laptop? I have an X201 but > > there docking system doesn't have Coaxial. > > Both the Behringer UCA-202 and UCA-222 work with Linux: > > http://jamie.lentin.co.uk/peripherals/behringer-uca-222/ > > It seems the only difference between the two is the software included > (which you don't need). You can buy the UCA-202 at Canada Computers: > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=UCA202&x=0&y=0 Optical SPDIF isn't coax SPDIF however. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 19:51:49 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 14:51:49 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Message-ID: Hi Everybodeee.. Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change depending on convenience for other to access. Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything else that would make this event a success. Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to explore Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) that "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove me wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 20:48:59 2013 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 15:48:59 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would come, but, really, COFFEE TIME? like COFFEE TIME? THE SADDEST PLACE OF THE WORLD???????????????? In the heart of Lt. Portugal, with plenty of great places to go, and you pick up Coffee Time? I'm sorry for the rant, but you asked for it. Suggestions: Bairrada, 3 Speed, Lit Espresso if you need good awesome fantastic coffee, The Emmet Ray, and the list never ends. SO MANY PLACES TO CHOOSE. DO NOT GO TO COFFEE TIME. Renata Rocha http://renata.org On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > Hi Everybodeee.. > > Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending the > Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so please > be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. > > I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the next > week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at > Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm > attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change > depending on convenience for other to access. > > Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything > else that would make this event a success. > > Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and > after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to explore > Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! > > You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) that > "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove me > wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) > > Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna > > > -- > Aruna Hewapathirane > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 20:59:16 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 15:59:16 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: lol I had very valid reasons for the choice of location Renata primarily lansdowne subway beings 1min walking distance away. I was thinking of folks who may not drive and have to rely on TTC and did not want folks standing waiting for buses in cold weather is all. Oh-kay so let's do this ? 'You' choose a location that works and let us know and we will show up ? If they have great food as well as great kofee that will be nice. Belive me if I had a budget and access to unlimited funding I would treat you guys at the Marriot but right now that is beyond my simple means, maybe some day :-) ..and a female sysop is a sysopette ? Yowza ! On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Renata Rocha wrote: > I would come, but, really, COFFEE TIME? > > like > > COFFEE TIME? THE SADDEST PLACE OF THE WORLD???????????????? > > In the heart of Lt. Portugal, with plenty of great places to go, and > you pick up Coffee Time? > > I'm sorry for the rant, but you asked for it. > > Suggestions: Bairrada, 3 Speed, Lit Espresso if you need good awesome > fantastic coffee, The Emmet Ray, and the list never ends. > > SO MANY PLACES TO CHOOSE. DO NOT GO TO COFFEE TIME. > > > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane > wrote: > > Hi Everybodeee.. > > > > Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending > the > > Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so > please > > be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. > > > > I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the > next > > week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at > > Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm > > attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change > > depending on convenience for other to access. > > > > Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything > > else that would make this event a success. > > > > Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and > > after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to > explore > > Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! > > > > You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) > that > > "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove me > > wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) > > > > Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna > > > > > > -- > > Aruna Hewapathirane > > Consultant/Trainer > > Phone : 647-709-9269 > > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 21:39:15 2013 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 16:39:15 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Artegelato is much better, steps from Ossington. They also serve Gelato (great gelato). My only problem with Artegelato is they are packed with families and kids at a certain time of the day, but that can be avoided. Caf? Novo is by High Park subway station, a very nice place. There's a Starbucks across the street that stays open late for when it closes. If I remember well, there's a coffee at Bay and Bloor, plus a few food spots. My availability depends on the day, but I'm giving ideas on how to make the meeting more interesting for the people who plan to attend - they will be more likely to go if it's a friendlier place than Coffee Time. People at this group tend to like asian food with their meetings, and the weather is cold, so I'd consider a Pho or Thai place! Everybody loves it :) Renata Rocha http://renata.org On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > lol I had very valid reasons for the choice of location Renata primarily > lansdowne subway beings 1min walking distance away. I was thinking of folks > who may not drive and have to rely on TTC and did not want folks standing > waiting for buses in cold weather is all. > > Oh-kay so let's do this ? 'You' choose a location that works and let us know > and we will show up ? If they have great food as well as great kofee that > will be nice. > > Belive me if I had a budget and access to unlimited funding I would treat > you guys at the Marriot but right now that is beyond my simple means, maybe > some day :-) > > ..and a female sysop is a sysopette ? Yowza ! > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Renata Rocha wrote: >> >> I would come, but, really, COFFEE TIME? >> >> like >> >> COFFEE TIME? THE SADDEST PLACE OF THE WORLD???????????????? >> >> In the heart of Lt. Portugal, with plenty of great places to go, and >> you pick up Coffee Time? >> >> I'm sorry for the rant, but you asked for it. >> >> Suggestions: Bairrada, 3 Speed, Lit Espresso if you need good awesome >> fantastic coffee, The Emmet Ray, and the list never ends. >> >> SO MANY PLACES TO CHOOSE. DO NOT GO TO COFFEE TIME. >> >> >> Renata Rocha >> http://renata.org >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane >> wrote: >> > Hi Everybodeee.. >> > >> > Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending >> > the >> > Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so >> > please >> > be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. >> > >> > I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the >> > next >> > week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at >> > Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm >> > attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change >> > depending on convenience for other to access. >> > >> > Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and >> > anything >> > else that would make this event a success. >> > >> > Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu >> > and >> > after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to >> > explore >> > Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! >> > >> > You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) >> > that >> > "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove me >> > wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) >> > >> > Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Aruna Hewapathirane >> > Consultant/Trainer >> > Phone : 647-709-9269 >> > Website: Open Source Solutions >> > >> > >> > >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > Aruna Hewapathirane > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 21:52:19 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 16:52:19 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh-kay sounds good to me. I love Thai food, so works for me. And I spoke to some others who may be interested in attending and Bob Jonkman from Elmira-Kitchner said he is availble on 14th Sat, has a busy schedule it seems. Good person to have around very experienced and humble. Listen, someone just called me said name was Rone used to run Free-geek toronto and said I should speak to a Pero who used to work for the European space agency and is very experienced but very new to Canada. Rone also said the exact same thing you did about Coffee Time and he also mentioned it would be nice if it is a place where they can pick up a beer. Am just keeping you informed of the possible attendees likes and dislikes. Once again my apologies if you felt uncomfortable with the location, like I said this is the very first time am doing this so have a heart :-) So right now we have a possible five people for the meet. You, Moi, Bob, David Pelly from Cambridge has expressed interest attending and Rone and Piero. It's a good start ? If you can spare a few minutes Renata I feel you would be the best person to take care of logistics as you seem to have done all this before ? I will of course do what I can but will bug you when i need to if I may ? Your site by the way can use some help, it's fine the way it is but I am a web-designer/developer and I can make that shine like moonlight on Thai food. We shall talk soon ! Coffe time is not that bad man, we go there all the time :-) On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Renata Rocha wrote: > Artegelato is much better, steps from Ossington. They also serve > Gelato (great gelato). My only problem with Artegelato is they are > packed with families and kids at a certain time of the day, but that > can be avoided. > > Caf? Novo is by High Park subway station, a very nice place. There's a > Starbucks across the street that stays open late for when it closes. > > If I remember well, there's a coffee at Bay and Bloor, plus a few food > spots. My availability depends on the day, but I'm giving ideas on how > to make the meeting more interesting for the people who plan to attend > - they will be more likely to go if it's a friendlier place than > Coffee Time. > > People at this group tend to like asian food with their meetings, and > the weather is cold, so I'd consider a Pho or Thai place! Everybody > loves it :) > > > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane > wrote: > > lol I had very valid reasons for the choice of location Renata primarily > > lansdowne subway beings 1min walking distance away. I was thinking of > folks > > who may not drive and have to rely on TTC and did not want folks standing > > waiting for buses in cold weather is all. > > > > Oh-kay so let's do this ? 'You' choose a location that works and let us > know > > and we will show up ? If they have great food as well as great kofee that > > will be nice. > > > > Belive me if I had a budget and access to unlimited funding I would treat > > you guys at the Marriot but right now that is beyond my simple means, > maybe > > some day :-) > > > > ..and a female sysop is a sysopette ? Yowza ! > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Renata Rocha wrote: > >> > >> I would come, but, really, COFFEE TIME? > >> > >> like > >> > >> COFFEE TIME? THE SADDEST PLACE OF THE WORLD???????????????? > >> > >> In the heart of Lt. Portugal, with plenty of great places to go, and > >> you pick up Coffee Time? > >> > >> I'm sorry for the rant, but you asked for it. > >> > >> Suggestions: Bairrada, 3 Speed, Lit Espresso if you need good awesome > >> fantastic coffee, The Emmet Ray, and the list never ends. > >> > >> SO MANY PLACES TO CHOOSE. DO NOT GO TO COFFEE TIME. > >> > >> > >> Renata Rocha > >> http://renata.org > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane > >> wrote: > >> > Hi Everybodeee.. > >> > > >> > Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in > attending > >> > the > >> > Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so > >> > please > >> > be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. > >> > > >> > I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or > the > >> > next > >> > week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at > >> > Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm > >> > attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change > >> > depending on convenience for other to access. > >> > > >> > Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and > >> > anything > >> > else that would make this event a success. > >> > > >> > Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu > >> > and > >> > after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to > >> > explore > >> > Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! > >> > > >> > You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) > >> > that > >> > "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove > me > >> > wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) > >> > > >> > Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Aruna Hewapathirane > >> > Consultant/Trainer > >> > Phone : 647-709-9269 > >> > Website: Open Source Solutions > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Aruna Hewapathirane > > Consultant/Trainer > > Phone : 647-709-9269 > > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 22:05:27 2013 From: maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org (Abby Bassie-Cripps) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:05:27 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Message-ID: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> Hello Aruna Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is shi.! LOL This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. Cheers Abby www.nuthy.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Aruna Hewapathirane Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Hi Everybodeee.. Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change depending on convenience for other to access. Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything else that would make this event a success. Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to explore Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) that "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove me wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: http://goog_1768911931 Open Source Solutions http://sahanaya.net/aruna/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 22:10:23 2013 From: williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Weaver) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:10:23 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: <20131205220527.128830-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> Message-ID: Are you focused on Ubuntu desktop or will there be discussions about server as well. I'm personally not a ubuntu desktop as I like my arch/manjaro but I do use it for servers from time to time. Will On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Abby Bassie-Cripps wrote: > Hello Aruna > > Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is shi.! > LOL > This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. > > Cheers > Abby > www.nuthy.ca > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Aruna Hewapathirane > > Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM > > To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community > > Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto > > Hi Everybodeee.. > > Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending > the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so > please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. > > I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the > next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at > Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm > attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change > depending on convenience for other to access. > > Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything > else that would make this event a success. > > Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and > after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to explore > Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! > > You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) that > "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove me > wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) > > Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna > > > -- > *Aruna Hewapathirane* > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 22:16:27 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:16:27 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: <20131205220527.128830-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> Message-ID: Hello Abby, Actually it was Bob Jonkman's idea am simply trying to initiate action on the ground here in Toronto and engage and mobilise folks somehow. We are thinking of meeting on the 14th of this month so if that works for you please do attend would love to meet and share ideas. Quote" I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is shi. "Endquote I fell in love with Ubuntu Karmic but then canonical had to go mess with simplicity and efficicncy and gave us Unity which I personally do not much care for. Unity has it's place in the mobile and touch devices but they should have continued the gnome desktp AND had a distro for other devices with Unity. That's my 2cents or they should have given the user the option to choose which to use ? Not stuff Unity down our throats! ) On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Abby Bassie-Cripps wrote: > Hello Aruna > > Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is shi.! > LOL > This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. > > Cheers > Abby > www.nuthy.ca > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Aruna Hewapathirane > > Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM > > To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community > > Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto > > Hi Everybodeee.. > > Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending > the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so > please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. > > I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the > next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at > Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm > attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change > depending on convenience for other to access. > > Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything > else that would make this event a success. > > Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and > after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to explore > Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! > > You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) that > "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove me > wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) > > Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna > > > -- > *Aruna Hewapathirane* > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > > > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 22:19:19 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:19:19 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> Message-ID: >Are you focused on Ubuntu desktop or will there be discussions about server as well. I'm personally not a ubuntu desktop as >I like my arch/manjaro but I do use it for servers from time to time. It is not a session with a scripted agenda Will, one is free to contribute in any area and you are most welcome to do so about servers if you would like to ? I would personally like to hear your experiences with Ubuntu Server :-) It will be a very informal low-key fun session ! On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:10 PM, William Weaver wrote: > Are you focused on Ubuntu desktop or will there be discussions about > server as well. I'm personally not a ubuntu desktop as I like my > arch/manjaro but I do use it for servers from time to time. > > Will > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Abby Bassie-Cripps wrote: > >> Hello Aruna >> >> Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is >> shi.! LOL >> This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. >> >> Cheers >> Abby >> www.nuthy.ca >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Aruna Hewapathirane >> >> Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM >> >> To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community >> >> Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto >> >> Hi Everybodeee.. >> >> Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending >> the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so >> please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. >> >> I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the >> next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at >> Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm >> attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change >> depending on convenience for other to access. >> >> Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything >> else that would make this event a success. >> >> Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and >> after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to explore >> Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! >> >> You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) >> that "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove >> me wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) >> >> Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna >> >> >> -- >> *Aruna Hewapathirane* >> Consultant/Trainer >> Phone : 647-709-9269 >> Website: Open Source Solutions >> >> >> >> >> > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 22:23:07 2013 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:23:07 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> Message-ID: <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> On 13-12-05 05:16 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > I fell in love with Ubuntu Karmic but then canonical had to go mess > with simplicity and efficicncy and gave us Unity which I personally > do not much care for. Unity has it's place in the mobile and touch > devices but they should have continued the gnome desktp AND had a > distro for other devices with Unity. That's my 2cents or they should > have given the user the option to choose which to use ? Not stuff > Unity down our throats! ) Of course there are ubuntu distros dedicated to various flavours of desktops. Not to start a flame war, but after I got used to the workflow of Unity, I admit I like it. My apps are all available with a few key strokes and Unity tweak tool lets me optimize many things like window pan etc. Although I admit I spend most of my day in terminal or eclipse. Randy Do not ask who I am and do not ask me to remain the same: leave it to our bureaucrats and our police to see that our papers are in order. At least spare us their morality when we write. --Michel Foucault > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Abby Bassie-Cripps > wrote: > > Hello Aruna > > Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows > is shi.! LOL > This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. > > Cheers > Abby > www.nuthy.ca > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Aruna Hewapathirane >> >> Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM >> >> To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community >> >> Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto >> >> Hi Everybodeee.. >> Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in >> attending the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am >> organizing this so please be gentle as it is very much a learning >> process for me. >> I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) >> or the next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the >> Coffee Time at Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions >> once folks confirm attendance. The location is of course open to >> discussion and change depending on convenience for other to access. >> Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and >> anything else that would make this event a success. >> Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk >> Ubuntu and after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" >> other person to explore Ubutnu as a alternative operating system >> I will be a happy cookie ! >> >> You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the >> GTA ) that "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. >> So please prove me wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of >> course :-) >> Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna >> >> >> -- >> *Aruna Hewapathirane* >> Consultant/Trainer >> Phone : 647-709-9269 >> Website:Open Source Solutions >> >> >> > > > > -- > *Aruna Hewapathirane* > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website:Open Source Solutions > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 22:46:58 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:46:58 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: <52A0FCCB.5040601-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> Message-ID: >Not to start a flame war, but after I got used to the workflow of Unity, I admit I like it. My apps are all available with >a few key strokes and Unity tweak tool lets me optimize many things like window pan etc. Although I admit I >spend most of my day in terminal or eclipse. Think about this carefully, before Unity we did not have Amazon ads showing up in the Software Centre ? And everything you search for IS tracked and monitored by Amazon so they can throw up targeted ads ? I have no idea if Cannonical tracks or archives what we search for but I am not comfortable when I see what I do is being monitored and tracked. To me this is a invasion of privavcy where one is not given the freedom to choose what one wishes to share if one so chooses. I have nothing against unity but simply does not work for me. And am not happy about what they went and did to Nautilus either, easily patched but it is still work and am a lazy coder :-) Though I jest in all seriousness the privacy issues are very real and disturbing. You may want to set up two systems one running Karmic the other 13.10 and monitor system resource utilization using top. I was frankly quite surprised to say the least. So uh-uh am happy with my gnome-classic :-) On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Randy Jonasz wrote: > On 13-12-05 05:16 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > > I fell in love with Ubuntu Karmic but then canonical had to go mess > with simplicity and efficicncy and gave us Unity which I personally do not > much care for. Unity has it's place in the mobile and touch devices but > they should have continued the gnome desktp AND had a distro for other > devices with Unity. That's my 2cents or they should have given the user the > option to choose which to use ? Not stuff Unity down our throats! ) > > Of course there are ubuntu distros dedicated to various flavours of > desktops. > > Not to start a flame war, but after I got used to the workflow of Unity, I > admit I like it. My apps are all available with a few key strokes and > Unity tweak tool lets me optimize many things like window pan etc. > Although I admit I spend most of my day in terminal or eclipse. > > Randy > > Do not ask who I am and do not ask me to remain the same: > leave it to our bureaucrats and our police to see that our > papers are in order. At least spare us their morality when > we write. > --Michel Foucault > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Abby Bassie-Cripps wrote: > >> Hello Aruna >> >> Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is >> shi.! LOL >> This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. >> >> Cheers >> Abby >> www.nuthy.ca >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Aruna Hewapathirane >> >> Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM >> >> To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community >> >> Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto >> >> Hi Everybodeee.. >> >> Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending >> the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so >> please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. >> >> I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the >> next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at >> Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm >> attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change >> depending on convenience for other to access. >> >> Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything >> else that would make this event a success. >> >> Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and >> after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to explore >> Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! >> >> You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) >> that "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove >> me wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) >> >> Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna >> >> >> -- >> *Aruna Hewapathirane* >> Consultant/Trainer >> Phone : 647-709-9269 >> Website: Open Source Solutions >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > *Aruna Hewapathirane* > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > > > > > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 22:53:32 2013 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:53:32 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 5, 2013 5:48 PM, "Aruna Hewapathirane" wrote: > > >Not to start a flame war, but after I got used to the workflow of Unity, I admit I like it. My apps are all available with >a few key strokes and Unity tweak tool lets me optimize many things like window pan etc. Although I admit I >spend most of my day in terminal or eclipse. > > Think about this carefully, before Unity we did not have Amazon ads showing up in the Software Centre ? And everything you search for IS tracked and monitored by Amazon so they can throw up targeted ads ? I have no idea if Cannonical tracks or archives what we search for but I am not comfortable when I see what I do is being monitored and tracked. To me this is a invasion of privavcy where one is not given the freedom to choose what one wishes to share if one so chooses. I have nothing against unity but simply does not work for me. And am not happy about what they went and did to Nautilus either, easily patched but it is still work and am a lazy coder :-) > > Though I jest in all seriousness the privacy issues are very real and disturbing. You may want to set up two systems one running Karmic the other 13.10 and monitor system resource utilization using top. I was frankly quite surprised to say the least. So uh-uh am happy with my gnome-classic :-) > I agree about the invasion of privacy. I'm disturbed about that as well but the unity tweak tool let's me disable that feature. > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Randy Jonasz wrote: >> >> On 13-12-05 05:16 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: >> >>> I fell in love with Ubuntu Karmic but then canonical had to go mess with simplicity and efficicncy and gave us Unity which I personally do not much care for. Unity has it's place in the mobile and touch devices but they should have continued the gnome desktp AND had a distro for other devices with Unity. That's my 2cents or they should have given the user the option to choose which to use ? Not stuff Unity down our throats! ) >> >> Of course there are ubuntu distros dedicated to various flavours of desktops. >> >> Not to start a flame war, but after I got used to the workflow of Unity, I admit I like it. My apps are all available with a few key strokes and Unity tweak tool lets me optimize many things like window pan etc. Although I admit I spend most of my day in terminal or eclipse. >> >> Randy >> >> Do not ask who I am and do not ask me to remain the same: >> leave it to our bureaucrats and our police to see that our >> papers are in order. At least spare us their morality when >> we write. >> --Michel Foucault >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Abby Bassie-Cripps wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Aruna >>>> >>>> Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is shi.! LOL >>>> This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Abby >>>> www.nuthy.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>>> From: Aruna Hewapathirane >>>>> >>>>> Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM >>>>> >>>>> To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community >>>>> >>>>> Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Everybodeee.. >>>>> >>>>> Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. >>>>> >>>>> I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change depending on convenience for other to access. >>>>> >>>>> Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything else that would make this event a success. >>>>> >>>>> Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to explore Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! >>>>> >>>>> You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) that "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove me wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) >>>>> >>>>> Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Aruna Hewapathirane >>>>> Consultant/Trainer >>>>> Phone : 647-709-9269 >>>>> Website: Open Source Solutions >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Aruna Hewapathirane >>> Consultant/Trainer >>> Phone : 647-709-9269 >>> Website: Open Source Solutions >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > -- > Aruna Hewapathirane > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 22:57:41 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:57:41 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes Randy you can disable but how can you be certain that the kernel does not have a mod that specifically tracks and sends data back to who knows where ? I feel a lot safer with the old kernels :-) On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Randy Jonasz wrote: > > On Dec 5, 2013 5:48 PM, "Aruna Hewapathirane" < > aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > >Not to start a flame war, but after I got used to the workflow of > Unity, I admit I like it. My apps are all available with >a few key > strokes and Unity tweak tool lets me optimize many things like window pan > etc. Although I admit I >spend most of my day in terminal or eclipse. > > > > Think about this carefully, before Unity we did not have Amazon ads > showing up in the Software Centre ? And everything you search for IS > tracked and monitored by Amazon so they can throw up targeted ads ? I have > no idea if Cannonical tracks or archives what we search for but I am not > comfortable when I see what I do is being monitored and tracked. To me this > is a invasion of privavcy where one is not given the freedom to choose what > one wishes to share if one so chooses. I have nothing against unity but > simply does not work for me. And am not happy about what they went and did > to Nautilus either, easily patched but it is still work and am a lazy coder > :-) > > > > Though I jest in all seriousness the privacy issues are very real and > disturbing. You may want to set up two systems one running Karmic the > other 13.10 and monitor system resource utilization using top. I was > frankly quite surprised to say the least. So uh-uh am happy with my > gnome-classic :-) > > > I agree about the invasion of privacy. I'm disturbed about that as well > but the unity tweak tool let's me disable that feature. > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Randy Jonasz wrote: > >> > >> On 13-12-05 05:16 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > >> > >>> I fell in love with Ubuntu Karmic but then canonical had to go mess > with simplicity and efficicncy and gave us Unity which I personally do not > much care for. Unity has it's place in the mobile and touch devices but > they should have continued the gnome desktp AND had a distro for other > devices with Unity. That's my 2cents or they should have given the user the > option to choose which to use ? Not stuff Unity down our throats! ) > >> > >> Of course there are ubuntu distros dedicated to various flavours of > desktops. > >> > >> Not to start a flame war, but after I got used to the workflow of > Unity, I admit I like it. My apps are all available with a few key strokes > and Unity tweak tool lets me optimize many things like window pan etc. > Although I admit I spend most of my day in terminal or eclipse. > >> > >> Randy > >> > >> Do not ask who I am and do not ask me to remain the same: > >> leave it to our bureaucrats and our police to see that our > >> papers are in order. At least spare us their morality when > >> we write. > >> --Michel Foucault > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Abby Bassie-Cripps > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hello Aruna > >>>> > >>>> Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is > shi.! LOL > >>>> This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers > >>>> Abby > >>>> www.nuthy.ca > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> > >>>>> From: Aruna Hewapathirane > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM > >>>>> > >>>>> To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community > >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Everybodeee.. > >>>>> > >>>>> Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in > attending the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing > this so please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. > >>>>> > >>>>> I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or > the next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time > at Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm > attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change > depending on convenience for other to access. > >>>>> > >>>>> Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and > anything else that would make this event a success. > >>>>> > >>>>> Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk > Ubuntu and after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person > to explore Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy > cookie ! > >>>>> > >>>>> You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA > ) that "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please > prove me wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Aruna Hewapathirane > >>>>> Consultant/Trainer > >>>>> Phone : 647-709-9269 > >>>>> Website: Open Source Solutions > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Aruna Hewapathirane > >>> Consultant/Trainer > >>> Phone : 647-709-9269 > >>> Website: Open Source Solutions > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Aruna Hewapathirane > > Consultant/Trainer > > Phone : 647-709-9269 > > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > > > > > > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 5 23:08:41 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 18:08:41 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> Message-ID: Randy, Here are some links that shed some light on the privacy issues. What scared me the most was the first link towards the bottom where they do have access to your credit card info and other sensitive info. http://askubuntu.com/questions/42234/how-much-do-canonical-track-ubuntu-one-users-behaviour http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/12/richard-stallman-calls-ubuntu-spyware-because-it-tracks-searches/ http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do Do keep an open mind though, Canonical has formed a partnership with Amazon that generates revenue for them which is a good thing that allows them to keep supporting FOSS that being said it should not be at the price of losing ones identity is all am saying ? On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane < aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Yes Randy you can disable but how can you be certain that the kernel does > not have a mod that specifically tracks and sends data back to who knows > where ? I feel a lot safer with the old kernels :-) > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Randy Jonasz wrote: > >> >> On Dec 5, 2013 5:48 PM, "Aruna Hewapathirane" < >> aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: >> > >> > >Not to start a flame war, but after I got used to the workflow of >> Unity, I admit I like it. My apps are all available with >a few key >> strokes and Unity tweak tool lets me optimize many things like window pan >> etc. Although I admit I >spend most of my day in terminal or eclipse. >> > >> > Think about this carefully, before Unity we did not have Amazon ads >> showing up in the Software Centre ? And everything you search for IS >> tracked and monitored by Amazon so they can throw up targeted ads ? I have >> no idea if Cannonical tracks or archives what we search for but I am not >> comfortable when I see what I do is being monitored and tracked. To me this >> is a invasion of privavcy where one is not given the freedom to choose what >> one wishes to share if one so chooses. I have nothing against unity but >> simply does not work for me. And am not happy about what they went and did >> to Nautilus either, easily patched but it is still work and am a lazy coder >> :-) >> > >> > Though I jest in all seriousness the privacy issues are very real and >> disturbing. You may want to set up two systems one running Karmic the >> other 13.10 and monitor system resource utilization using top. I was >> frankly quite surprised to say the least. So uh-uh am happy with my >> gnome-classic :-) >> > >> I agree about the invasion of privacy. I'm disturbed about that as well >> but the unity tweak tool let's me disable that feature. >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Randy Jonasz wrote: >> >> >> >> On 13-12-05 05:16 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: >> >> >> >>> I fell in love with Ubuntu Karmic but then canonical had to go mess >> with simplicity and efficicncy and gave us Unity which I personally do not >> much care for. Unity has it's place in the mobile and touch devices but >> they should have continued the gnome desktp AND had a distro for other >> devices with Unity. That's my 2cents or they should have given the user the >> option to choose which to use ? Not stuff Unity down our throats! ) >> >> >> >> Of course there are ubuntu distros dedicated to various flavours of >> desktops. >> >> >> >> Not to start a flame war, but after I got used to the workflow of >> Unity, I admit I like it. My apps are all available with a few key strokes >> and Unity tweak tool lets me optimize many things like window pan etc. >> Although I admit I spend most of my day in terminal or eclipse. >> >> >> >> Randy >> >> >> >> Do not ask who I am and do not ask me to remain the same: >> >> leave it to our bureaucrats and our police to see that our >> >> papers are in order. At least spare us their morality when >> >> we write. >> >> --Michel Foucault >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Abby Bassie-Cripps >> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Hello Aruna >> >>>> >> >>>> Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is >> shi.! LOL >> >>>> This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. >> >>>> >> >>>> Cheers >> >>>> Abby >> >>>> www.nuthy.ca >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> >> >>>>> From: Aruna Hewapathirane >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM >> >>>>> >> >>>>> To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hi Everybodeee.. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in >> attending the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing >> this so please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or >> the next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time >> at Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm >> attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change >> depending on convenience for other to access. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and >> anything else that would make this event a success. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk >> Ubuntu and after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person >> to explore Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy >> cookie ! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA >> ) that "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please >> prove me wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> Aruna Hewapathirane >> >>>>> Consultant/Trainer >> >>>>> Phone : 647-709-9269 >> >>>>> Website: Open Source Solutions >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Aruna Hewapathirane >> >>> Consultant/Trainer >> >>> Phone : 647-709-9269 >> >>> Website: Open Source Solutions >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Aruna Hewapathirane >> > Consultant/Trainer >> > Phone : 647-709-9269 >> > Website: Open Source Solutions >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > -- > *Aruna Hewapathirane* > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > > > > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 00:18:30 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 19:18:30 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52A117D6.80206@utoronto.ca> On 05/12/13 05:57 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > Yes Randy you can disable but how can you be certain that the kernel does > not have a mod that specifically tracks and sends data back to who knows > where ? I feel a lot safer with the old kernels :-) Two reasons: 1a) Trust that Ubuntu kernel devs aren't jerks. 1b) That the community of outside kernel devs & users would spot such a modification. 2) Corollary to 1b - You can download the source code and build a binary yourself to verify on whatever terms you choose. Try it yourself: apt-get source $(uname -r) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 00:25:27 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 19:25:27 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: <52A117D6.80206-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> <52A117D6.80206@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Am sorry I did not mean it the way it must have sounded and I have the greatest respect and liking for our kernel developers absolutely no issues there. Maybe am being paranoid but like Linux in it's original inception I want security to be the cornerstone so again my sincere apologies to any kernel devs I may have unintentionally offended was not at all the intention. Simply wanted to raise awareness that privacy is a issue with the recent distros. Been a while since I compiled a kernel, I used to go to the mainline http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/ but your shell apt-get sure rocks, many thank's :-) On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 05/12/13 05:57 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > > Yes Randy you can disable but how can you be certain that the kernel does > > not have a mod that specifically tracks and sends data back to who knows > > where ? I feel a lot safer with the old kernels :-) > > Two reasons: > > 1a) Trust that Ubuntu kernel devs aren't jerks. > > 1b) That the community of outside kernel devs & users would spot such a > modification. > > 2) Corollary to 1b - You can download the source code and build a binary > yourself to verify on whatever terms you choose. Try it yourself: > apt-get source $(uname -r) > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 00:44:06 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 19:44:06 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> <52A117D6.80206@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <52A11DD6.2010200@utoronto.ca> On 05/12/13 07:25 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > Been a while since I compiled a kernel, I used to go to the mainline > http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/ but your shell apt-get sure > rocks, many thank's :-) That wouldn't result in a very maintainable kernel, it was just an example of how to get the source. You'd want to use fakeroot to generate .deb packages of the kernel and modules. More here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 01:16:58 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 01:16:58 +0000 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Message-ID: <708770850-1386292612-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-873033536-@b2.c8.bise6.blackberry> Many thanks jamon :-) ------Original Message------ From: Jamon Camisso Sender: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org ReplyTo: tlug at ss.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Sent: Dec 5, 2013 19:44 On 05/12/13 07:25 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > Been a while since I compiled a kernel, I used to go to the mainline > http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/ but your shell apt-get sure > rocks, many thank's :-) That wouldn't result in a very maintainable kernel, it was just an example of how to get the source. You'd want to use fakeroot to generate .deb packages of the kernel and modules. More here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone powered by Mobilicity From maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 03:47:06 2013 From: maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org (Abby Bassie-Cripps) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:47:06 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Message-ID: <20131206034706.74840@gmx.com> Hi Aruna I have to agree with you about Unity, but that is easy to change. Abby ----- Original Message ----- From: Aruna Hewapathirane Sent: 12/05/13 05:16 PM To: Toronto Linux User's Group Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Hello Abby, Actually it was Bob Jonkman's idea am simply trying to initiate action on the ground here in Toronto and engage and mobilise folks somehow. We are thinking of meeting on the 14th of this month so if that works for you please do attend would love to meet and share ideas. Quote" I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is shi. "Endquote I fell in love with Ubuntu Karmic but then canonical had to go mess with simplicity and efficicncy and gave us Unity which I personally do not much care for. Unity has it's place in the mobile and touch devices but they should have continued the gnome desktp AND had a distro for other devices with Unity. That's my 2cents or they should have given the user the option to choose which to use ? Not stuff Unity down our throats! ) On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Abby Bassie-Cripps < maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org > wrote:Hello Aruna Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is shi.! LOL This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. Cheers Abby http://www.nuthy.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Aruna Hewapathirane Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Hi Everybodeee.. Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change depending on convenience for other to access. Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything else that would make this event a success. Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to explore Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) that "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove me wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 tel:647-709-9269 Website: http://goog_1768911931 Open Source Solutions http://sahanaya.net/aruna/ -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: http://goog_1768911931 Open Source Solutions http://sahanaya.net/aruna/ Kind regards Abby 416 799 3969 www.maxcess.info - Health Products: N-Fuse, ATP, Cellgevity, MaxGXL - abby at maxcess.info www.nuthy.ca - Computer IT & Tutor - geekette-mfPn/Ppx9ZE at public.gmane.org www.plsfunnel.com/33298520 - Lead Generation System www.wellspringching.ca - Care for cancer patients and the care givers www.pinkhairdare.ca - Wear a pink hair extension in the month of October for Cancer Awareness. All donations raised go to WellspringChing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 03:50:35 2013 From: maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org (Abby Bassie-Cripps) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 22:50:35 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Message-ID: <20131206035035.25770@gmx.com> Hi Will Fyi - my ubuntu destop is my also my vertual hosting server. One machine to run many servers. Web Hosting, Email, etc. Abby ----- Original Message ----- From: William Weaver Sent: 12/05/13 05:10 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Are you focused on Ubuntu desktop or will there be discussions about server as well. I'm personally not a ubuntu desktop as I like my arch/manjaro but I do use it for servers from time to time. Will On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Abby Bassie-Cripps < maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org > wrote:Hello Aruna Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is shi.! LOL This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. Cheers Abby http://www.nuthy.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Aruna Hewapathirane Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Hi Everybodeee.. Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change depending on convenience for other to access. Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything else that would make this event a success. Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to explore Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) that "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove me wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 tel:647-709-9269 Website: http://goog_1768911931 Open Source Solutions http://sahanaya.net/aruna/ Kind regards Abby 416 799 3969 www.maxcess.info - Health Products: N-Fuse, ATP, Cellgevity, MaxGXL - abby at maxcess.info www.nuthy.ca - Computer IT & Tutor - geekette-mfPn/Ppx9ZE at public.gmane.org www.plsfunnel.com/33298520 - Lead Generation System www.wellspringching.ca - Care for cancer patients and the care givers www.pinkhairdare.ca - Wear a pink hair extension in the month of October for Cancer Awareness. All donations raised go to WellspringChing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 03:56:25 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 22:56:25 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: <20131206034706.74840-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20131206034706.74840@gmx.com> Message-ID: Hi Aruna > > I have to agree with you about Unity, but that is easy to change. > > Abby > > Why change anything from what we used to have Abby ? Simple, elegant and functional. Now we have a windows wanna be look alike ? I just don get it :-( > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Aruna Hewapathirane > > Sent: 12/05/13 05:16 PM > > To: Toronto Linux User's Group > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto > > Hello Abby, > > Actually it was Bob Jonkman's idea am simply trying to initiate action on > the ground here in Toronto and engage and mobilise folks somehow. We are > thinking of meeting on the 14th of this month so if that works for you > please do attend would love to meet and share ideas. > > Quote" I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is shi. "Endquote > > > I fell in love with Ubuntu Karmic but then canonical had to go mess with > simplicity and efficicncy and gave us Unity which I personally do not much > care for. Unity has it's place in the mobile and touch devices but they > should have continued the gnome desktp AND had a distro for other devices > with Unity. That's my 2cents or they should have given the user the option > to choose which to use ? Not stuff Unity down our throats! ) > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Abby Bassie-Cripps wrote: > >> Hello Aruna >> >> Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is >> shi.! LOL >> This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. >> >> Cheers >> Abby >> www.nuthy.ca >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Aruna Hewapathirane >> >> Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM >> >> To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community >> >> Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto >> >> Hi Everybodeee.. >> >> Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending >> the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so >> please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. >> >> I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the >> next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at >> Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm >> attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change >> depending on convenience for other to access. >> >> Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything >> else that would make this event a success. >> >> Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and >> after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to explore >> Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! >> >> You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) >> that "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove >> me wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) >> >> Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna >> >> >> -- >> *Aruna Hewapathirane* >> Consultant/Trainer >> Phone : 647-709-9269 >> Website: Open Source Solutions >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > *Aruna Hewapathirane* > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > > > > > > > Kind regards > Abby > 416 799 3969 > www.maxcess.info - Health Products: N-Fuse, ATP, Cellgevity, MaxGXL - > abby-GStEeyh7BoCZuzBka8ofvg at public.gmane.org > www.nuthy.ca - Computer IT & Tutor - geekette-mfPn/Ppx9ZE at public.gmane.org > www.plsfunnel.com/33298520 - Lead Generation System > > www.wellspringching.ca - Care for cancer patients and the care givers > www.pinkhairdare.ca > - Wear a pink hair extension in the month of October for Cancer Awareness. All donations raised go to WellspringChing > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 04:51:44 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 23:51:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Aruna Hewapathirane | Do keep an open mind though, Canonical has formed a partnership with Amazon | that generates revenue for them which is a good thing Yeah, their business model is a little unclear. Q: how do you make a small fortune in the Linux distro business? A: start with a large fortune. A really tough problem. | that allows them to | keep supporting FOSS that being said it should not be at the price of | losing ones identity is all am saying ? The support for FOSS from Canonical is a little mixed. Ubuntu is great as a poster child distro. They've made Linux more approachable. But their support of the rest of FOSS has been pretty minor or even disruptive. ================ Your attempt to create an event is great. Is there any particular reason that being exclusively Ubuntu makes it better? Certainly TLUG/GTALUG could use new initiatives. By that, I don't mean that the old ones have run their course, but that innovation is a Good Thing. Having new things in different parts of the city from downtown might activate a new crowd (however good coffee and transit might suffer from that migration). None of this is a request, only some possible ideas. Certainly not intended to change what's already half-organized. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 05:56:27 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 00:56:27 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, their business model is a little unclear. > > Q: how do you make a small fortune in the Linux distro > business? > > A: start with a large fortune. I believe Mark Shuttleworth earned his fortune the hard way, he founded Thawte in 1995, which specialised in digital certificates and Internet security and then sold it to VeriSign in December 1999, earning R 3.5 billion (about US$ 575 million at the time). *Thawte was originally run from Shuttleworth's parents' garage* In September 2000, Shuttleworth formed HBD Venture Capital (Here be Dragons), a business incubator and venture capital provider. In March 2004 he formed Canonical Ltd., for the promotion and commercial support of free software projects, especially the Ubuntu operating system. In December 2009, Shuttleworth stepped down as the CEO of Canonical, Ltd Citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Shuttleworth > > A really tough problem. ( Any problem has a solution ? ) > | that allows them to > | keep supporting FOSS that being said it should not be at the price of > | losing ones identity is all am saying ? > > The support for FOSS from Canonical is a little mixed. Ubuntu is > great as a poster child distro. They've made Linux more approachable. > But their support of the rest of FOSS has been pretty minor or even > disruptive. > Yes they did make Linux more user friendly to the average non-technical home user. I would not be typing this right now if it was not for Ubuntu Karmic but with recent releases their sending local Ubuntu Unity Dash searches to Canonical servers by default and Firefox tracking and geo-location though I understand why from a business sense "I" am not comfortable with. The current CEO of Cannonical Jane Silber according to launchpad is familiar with Catalan, Cherokee, Chinese (Simplified), French, Malay, Sanskrit, Zulu. Some one who has this capacity and ability I feel will also have the integrity and transparency to support the community needs and concerns but then as a CEO one has a mandate and at times conflicts of interest may arise ? So as usual the $.$$ and cents win ! I still have faith though and hopefully we will have less intrusive behavior in the next releases. > ================ > > Your attempt to create an event is great. > > Is there any particular reason that being exclusively Ubuntu makes it > better? We have one hour and that is insufficient to do justice to all flavors of Linux out there in the wild such as Slackware, Free BSD, Mandrake, Backtrack etc. I don't think a given distro is better than another but over time and use we tend to bond with a particular distro and certain distro specific features and functionalities where we are thoroughly familiar with the quirks ? Anyone is most welcome to share experiences with distros that may not be Ubuntu, we are inclusive and we try to support ! But please bear in mind all we have is the ONE hour to get everything done :-) > > Certainly TLUG/GTALUG could use new initiatives. By that, I don't > mean that the old ones have run their course, but that innovation is a > Good Thing. > > Having new things in different parts of the city from downtown might > activate a new crowd (however good coffee and transit might suffer > from that migration). > Good kofee can and will be arranged :-) and migration I hear tell is much easier after a few beers ! > None of this is a request, only some possible ideas. Certainly not > intended to change what's already half-organized. Ideas are always most welcome and where ever possible will be included and implemented. I like to think of this as disruptive construction. remember when skype was taken over by big blue ? And we thought oh-boy there go the free calls ? What happened ? The community is what happened and now we have Viber, Whatsapp and so many others :-) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Aruna Hewapathirane Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 05:57:07 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 00:57:07 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52A16733.7040306@sobac.com> On 13-12-05 11:51 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Is there any particular reason that being exclusively Ubuntu makes it > better? Short answer: No. Long answer: When I've organized or attended "Ubuntu Hours" there hasn't actually been much emphasis on Ubuntu. And they're rarely only an hour. At the Kitchener Ubuntu Hour tonight the talk was mostly about phones and alternate operating systems like Replicant and Cyanogenmod, and someone introduced me to Google Hangouts. The intent of Ubuntu Hours is to get people together in a social gathering, where technical chops are not the order of the day. But Ubuntu Hours inevitably turn into technical discussions, technical support, and technical presentations. That's just the fluid nature of Ubuntu Hours. One of the reasons for using Ubuntu Hours as the banner for Linux-y social gatherings is that Ubuntu provides the tools to arrange meetings and events through the Ubuntu-ca mailing list, Wiki and LoCo Events portal. So they're not /exclusively/ Ubuntu, but they're better (ie. easier to organize) thanks to the use of Ubuntu tools and resources. --Bob. Mailing List: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ca Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/ LoCo Portal: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-ca/ On 13-12-05 11:51 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Aruna Hewapathirane > > | Do keep an open mind though, Canonical has formed a partnership with Amazon > | that generates revenue for them which is a good thing > > Yeah, their business model is a little unclear. > > Q: how do you make a small fortune in the Linux distro > business? > > A: start with a large fortune. > > A really tough problem. > > | that allows them to > | keep supporting FOSS that being said it should not be at the price of > | losing ones identity is all am saying ? > > The support for FOSS from Canonical is a little mixed. Ubuntu is > great as a poster child distro. They've made Linux more approachable. > But their support of the rest of FOSS has been pretty minor or even > disruptive. > > ================ > > Your attempt to create an event is great. > > Is there any particular reason that being exclusively Ubuntu makes it > better? > > Certainly TLUG/GTALUG could use new initiatives. By that, I don't > mean that the old ones have run their course, but that innovation is a > Good Thing. > > Having new things in different parts of the city from downtown might > activate a new crowd (however good coffee and transit might suffer > from that migration). > > None of this is a request, only some possible ideas. Certainly not > intended to change what's already half-organized. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 06:16:13 2013 From: maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org (Abby Bassie-Cripps) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 01:16:13 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Message-ID: <20131206061613.89840@gmx.com> You don't have to have the Unity at all, install a deferent one all together. Eg Cinnamon or a choice of many others. We do not need to use a windows wanna be look alike. I got rid of my Unity, but still have ubuntu 12.04. ----- Original Message ----- From: Aruna Hewapathirane Sent: 12/05/13 10:56 PM To: Toronto Linux User's Group Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Hi Aruna I have to agree with you about Unity, but that is easy to change. Abby Why change anything from what we used to have Abby ? Simple, elegant and functional. Now we have a windows wanna be look alike ? I just don get it :-( ----- Original Message ----- From: Aruna Hewapathirane Sent: 12/05/13 05:16 PM To: Toronto Linux User's Group Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Hello Abby, Actually it was Bob Jonkman's idea am simply trying to initiate action on the ground here in Toronto and engage and mobilise folks somehow. We are thinking of meeting on the 14th of this month so if that works for you please do attend would love to meet and share ideas. Quote" I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is shi. "Endquote I fell in love with Ubuntu Karmic but then canonical had to go mess with simplicity and efficicncy and gave us Unity which I personally do not much care for. Unity has it's place in the mobile and touch devices but they should have continued the gnome desktp AND had a distro for other devices with Unity. That's my 2cents or they should have given the user the option to choose which to use ? Not stuff Unity down our throats! ) On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Abby Bassie-Cripps < maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org > wrote: Hello Aruna Your idea sounds great! I love Ubuntu! Mac os ok, and any windows is shi.! LOL This weekend is out for me. Best of luck on this idea. Cheers Abby http://www.nuthy.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Aruna Hewapathirane Sent: 12/05/13 02:51 PM To: Toronto Linux User's Group, The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community Subject: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Hi Everybodeee.. Oh-kay this is a open invitation to one and all interested in attending the Toronto Ubuntu Hour. This is the first time I am organizing this so please be gentle as it is very much a learning process for me. I was thinking either the coming week-end ( 7th Sat or 8th Sun ) or the next week-end. Location has tenatively been decided on the Coffee Time at Lansdowne and Bloor will be sending directions once folks confirm attendance. The location is of course open to discussion and change depending on convenience for other to access. Would very much appreciate everyone's thoughts on the dates and anything else that would make this event a success. Show some solidarity people. Let's Meet + greet + eat and talk Ubuntu and after we can go have beer ? If I can convince "one" other person to explore Ubutnu as a alternative operating system I will be a happy cookie ! You can't tell me in a city of 9 million people ( including the GTA ) that "I" am the only one single person using Linux Ubuntu. So please prove me wrong and respond gentlemen ( ..and ladies of course :-) Thank's and look forward to hearing from everyone - Aruna -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 tel:647-709-9269 Website: http://goog_1768911931 Open Source Solutions http://sahanaya.net/aruna/ -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 tel:647-709-9269 Website: http://goog_1768911931 Open Source Solutions http://sahanaya.net/aruna/ Kind regards Abby 416 799 3969 tel:416%C2%A0799%C2%A03969 http://www.maxcess.info - Health Products: N-Fuse, ATP, Cellgevity, MaxGXL - abby-GStEeyh7BoCZuzBka8ofvg at public.gmane.org http://www.nuthy.ca - Computer IT & Tutor - geekette-mfPn/Ppx9ZE at public.gmane.org http://www.plsfunnel.com/33298520 - Lead Generation System http://www.wellspringching.ca - Care for cancer patients and the care givers http://www.pinkhairdare.ca - Wear a pink hair extension in the month of October for Cancer Awareness. All donations raised go to WellspringChing -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: http://goog_1768911931 Open Source Solutions http://sahanaya.net/aruna/ Kind regards Abby 416 799 3969 www.maxcess.info - Health Products: N-Fuse, ATP, Cellgevity, MaxGXL - abby at maxcess.info www.nuthy.ca - Computer IT & Tutor - geekette-mfPn/Ppx9ZE at public.gmane.org www.plsfunnel.com/33298520 - Lead Generation System www.wellspringching.ca - Care for cancer patients and the care givers www.pinkhairdare.ca - Wear a pink hair extension in the month of October for Cancer Awareness. All donations raised go to WellspringChing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 06:31:24 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 01:31:24 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: <20131206061613.89840-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20131206061613.89840@gmx.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Abby Bassie-Cripps wrote: > You don't have to have the Unity at all, install a deferent one all > together. Eg Cinnamon or a choice of many others. > We do not need to use a windows wanna be look alike. I got rid of my > Unity, but still have ubuntu 12.04. Abby, I have Cinnaman, KDE, LXDE, Xfce, and am testing and exploring Awesome which is really good the way it tiles and stacks the windows but I guess it must be sentimental since I cut my teeth on Karmic I still feel very attached to that classic gnome2. Guess I will compile my own kernel like Jamon suggested one of these days with exactly what I need and want then no more komplaints :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 06:54:55 2013 From: maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org (Abby Bassie-Cripps) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 01:54:55 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Message-ID: <20131206065455.218160@gmx.com> Hi Aruna I understand the sentimental idea. I have friends on this list that love Centos as much as I love Ubuntu. Yes, it is mostly based on what we start of with. We all put so much time into learning that first version. Yes, I loved the gnome2 as well. But I am sure the latest will get better. All OS do eventually improve. I will have to check out Awesome as soon as I can. I was not aware of that one ontil now. Thanks! Abby ----- Original Message ----- From: Aruna Hewapathirane Sent: 12/06/13 01:31 AM To: Toronto Linux User's Group Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Abby Bassie-Cripps < maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org > wrote:You don't have to have the Unity at all, install a deferent one all together. Eg Cinnamon or a choice of many others. We do not need to use a windows wanna be look alike. I got rid of my Unity, but still have ubuntu 12.04. Abby, I have Cinnaman, KDE, LXDE, Xfce, and am testing and exploring Awesome http://awesome.naquadah.org/ which is really good the way it tiles and stacks the windows but I guess it must be sentimental since I cut my teeth on Karmic I still feel very attached to that classic gnome2. Guess I will compile my own kernel like Jamon suggested one of these days with exactly what I need and want then no more komplaints :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 07:00:27 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 02:00:27 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: <20131206065455.218160-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20131206065455.218160@gmx.com> Message-ID: > > Hi Aruna > > I understand the sentimental idea. I have friends on this list that love > Centos as much as I love Ubuntu. Yes, it is mostly based on what we start > of with. We all put so much time into learning that first version. Yes, I > loved the gnome2 as well. But I am sure the latest will get better. All OS > do eventually improve. > You hit the nail right on the head my dear that is exactly it, the time we put into familiarising ourselves with that first distro that is it :-) > > > I will have to check out Awesome as soon as I can. I was not aware of that > one ontil now. Thanks! > Once Awesome is installed and booted you will see an empty desktop and I mean EMPTY as in no nuthin which can spook one, it sure spooked me. Right click anywhere on the desktop and you will be on your way, good luck and it IS fast and lightweight ! > > Abby > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Aruna Hewapathirane > > Sent: 12/06/13 01:31 AM > > To: Toronto Linux User's Group > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Abby Bassie-Cripps wrote: >> >> You don't have to have the Unity at all, install a deferent one all >> together. Eg Cinnamon or a choice of many others. >> We do not need to use a windows wanna be look alike. I got rid of my >> Unity, but still have ubuntu 12.04. > > > > Abby, I have Cinnaman, KDE, LXDE, Xfce, and am testing and exploring > Awesome which is really good the way it > tiles and stacks the windows but I guess it must be sentimental since I cut > my teeth on Karmic I still feel very attached to that classic gnome2. > Guess I will compile my own kernel like Jamon suggested one of these days > with exactly what I need and want then no more komplaints :-) > > > > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 15:43:19 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 10:43:19 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20131206154319.GL20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 06:08:41PM -0500, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > Randy, > > Here are some links that shed some light on the privacy issues. What scared > me the most was the first link towards the bottom where they do have access > to your credit card info and other sensitive info. > > http://askubuntu.com/questions/42234/how-much-do-canonical-track-ubuntu-one-users-behaviour > > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/12/richard-stallman-calls-ubuntu-spyware-because-it-tracks-searches/ > > http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do > > Do keep an open mind though, Canonical has formed a partnership with Amazon > that generates revenue for them which is a good thing that allows them to > keep supporting FOSS that being said it should not be at the price of > losing ones identity is all am saying ? Debian manages to maintain a distribution without the need to do such things to raise funds. Ubuntu even benefits from lots of Debian's work, yet Ubuntu thinks it needs to raise money through awful deals like that? I do however promise NOT to show up to a Ubuntu event and point out all the things that are terribly wrong with Ubuntu. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 15:48:50 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 10:48:50 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <20131206065455.218160@gmx.com> Message-ID: <20131206154850.GM20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 02:00:27AM -0500, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > You hit the nail right on the head my dear that is exactly it, the time we > put into familiarising ourselves with that first distro that is it :-) I didn't love SLS or slackware. Lots was not good. But they were there and certainly better than DOS. Redhat was a big improvement, but not until Debian could I say I found something really to love. I certainly did not love twm, but well it got the job done at the time. mwm sure wasn't great either. xfce is quite nice and doesn't get in the way or do anything stupid. Not very pretty by default, but then again looks don't really matter to functionality. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 19:30:13 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 14:30:13 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: <20131206154319.GL20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> <20131206154319.GL20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <52A225C5.6080108@sobac.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I do however promise NOT to show up to a Ubuntu event and point out all > the things that are terribly wrong with Ubuntu. But would you promise to show up to an Ubuntu event and NOT point out all the things terribly wrong with Ubuntu? --Bob, who promises to show up to an Ubuntu event and point out all the things NOT terribly wrong with Ubuntu... (actually, Ubuntu Hours ARE a great place to show up and point out all the things terribly wrong with Ubuntu. And then we hold an Ubuntu Global Jam to fix those things. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam ) On 13-12-06 10:43 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 06:08:41PM -0500, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: >> Randy, >> >> Here are some links that shed some light on the privacy issues. What scared >> me the most was the first link towards the bottom where they do have access >> to your credit card info and other sensitive info. >> >> http://askubuntu.com/questions/42234/how-much-do-canonical-track-ubuntu-one-users-behaviour >> >> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/12/richard-stallman-calls-ubuntu-spyware-because-it-tracks-searches/ >> >> http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do >> >> Do keep an open mind though, Canonical has formed a partnership with Amazon >> that generates revenue for them which is a good thing that allows them to >> keep supporting FOSS that being said it should not be at the price of >> losing ones identity is all am saying ? > > Debian manages to maintain a distribution without the need to do such > things to raise funds. Ubuntu even benefits from lots of Debian's work, > yet Ubuntu thinks it needs to raise money through awful deals like that? > > I do however promise NOT to show up to a Ubuntu event and point out all > the things that are terribly wrong with Ubuntu. :) > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 6 20:20:46 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 15:20:46 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto In-Reply-To: <52A225C5.6080108-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20131205220527.128830@gmx.com> <52A0FCCB.5040601@gmail.com> <20131206154319.GL20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <52A225C5.6080108@sobac.com> Message-ID: <20131206202046.GN20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 02:30:13PM -0500, Bob Jonkman wrote: > But would you promise to show up to an Ubuntu event and NOT point out > all the things terribly wrong with Ubuntu? No, probably not. :) > --Bob, who promises to show up to an Ubuntu event and point out all the > things NOT terribly wrong with Ubuntu... > > (actually, Ubuntu Hours ARE a great place to show up and point out all > the things terribly wrong with Ubuntu. And then we hold an Ubuntu Global > Jam to fix those things. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam ) Well first of all they would have to stop fixed release cycles. Good luck with that. Only release done when it is ready, not at a fixed date are any good. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 8 03:43:48 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 22:43:48 -0500 Subject: Google Online Security Blog: Further improving digital certificate security Message-ID: Hi This seem worth sharing. Apparently, someone with access to root certificates in current browsers had created unauthorized certificate. Think Google was also a target on previous event that involved Iranian cracker and a Netherlands CA. The same seem to be the case this month. http://googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.ca/2013/12/further-improving-digital-certificate.html?m=1 William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 8 03:45:40 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 22:45:40 -0500 Subject: Google Online Security Blog: Further improving digital certificate security Message-ID: Hi, This seem worth sharing. Apparently, someone with access to root certificates in current browsers had created unauthorized certificate. Think Google was also a target on previous event that involved Iranian cracker and a Netherlands CA. The same seem to be the case this month. http://googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.ca/2013/12/further-improving-digital-certificate.html?m=1 William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 8 06:17:24 2013 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (Bill Henderson) Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2013 06:17:24 +0000 Subject: Google Online Security Blog: Further improving digital certificate security In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52A40EF4.1030004@torfree.net> On 12/08/2013 03:45 AM, William Muriithi wrote: > > Hi, > > This seem worth sharing. Apparently, someone with access to root > certificates in current browsers had created unauthorized certificate. > Think Google was also a target on previous event that involved Iranian > cracker and a Netherlands CA. The same seem to be the case this month. > > http://googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.ca/2013/12/further-improving-digital-certificate.html?m=1 > > William > Sounds very much like "The Biter Bit" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 8 19:43:03 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 14:43:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: mini ITX board for router Message-ID: This seems like a reasonable board to build a router out of: it has two 1G ethernet ports: CPU: Celeron 1037u (low power consumption, reasonable crunch) No USB 3 :-( $95 + 11:28 shipping + tax (I've not tried to shop for ITX cases and power supplies.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 17:19:33 2013 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 12:19:33 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant Message-ID: I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime soon. Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. I have myself promised not to come back to the meetings while I see this kind of harassment in public being ignored, and the people who do it not held accountable for their actions. What you can do: talk to these members and make them at least apologize for their actions and make women feel safe and comfortable again at the TLUG meetings. I'd love to learn and hang out with you, but your environment is not welcoming for me and for other women in IT I know. We're in this for the same reason as everyone else - learning and sharing. (Yes yes I realize there's more than man/woman in the world, but for this case specifically I wanted to keep the universe limited. ) Renata Rocha http://renata.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 18:55:31 2013 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (David Mason) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 13:55:31 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the reminder. I don't attend that often, and unfortunately missed any meetings you - or, to the best of my memory, *any* woman - attended. As a professor of computer science, I am appalled at the utter male domination of our field, and appreciate being reminded of at least one of the factors leading to the the dearth of women. It behooves all of us to root out misogyny wherever we see it! ../Dave On 9 December 2013 12:19, Renata Rocha wrote: > I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't > seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime > soon. > > Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a > predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend > TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your > colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening > at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. > > I have myself promised not to come back to the meetings while I see > this kind of harassment in public being ignored, and the people who do > it not held accountable for their actions. > > What you can do: talk to these members and make them at least > apologize for their actions and make women feel safe and comfortable > again at the TLUG meetings. I'd love to learn and hang out with you, > but your environment is not welcoming for me and for other women in IT > I know. We're in this for the same reason as everyone else - learning > and sharing. > > (Yes yes I realize there's more than man/woman in the world, but for > this case specifically I wanted to keep the universe limited. ) > > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gordontc-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 19:19:13 2013 From: gordontc-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Gordon Chillcott) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 14:19:13 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1386616753.2977.5.camel@hive.gordhome.local> Renata definitely has a point. And this has been discussed at more than a few of the executive meetings - those discussions were often led by Scott Sullivan, who is the current board chairman and president. That being said, the Code of Conduct really needs to be reviewed - especially on this matter. In the meantime, an idea came to mind: There is often strength in numbers. It might be an idea to recruit a group to attend a meeting en mass, so to speak. It would be interesting to watch the reaction of the group. Mind you, you need to select a meeting with an interesting topic. No sense putting in an appearance, only to be bored to death. Gordon On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 13:55 -0500, David Mason wrote: > Thanks for the reminder. > > I don't attend that often, and unfortunately missed any meetings you - > or, to the best of my memory, *any* woman - attended. As a professor > of computer science, I am appalled at the utter male domination of our > field, and appreciate being reminded of at least one of the factors > leading to the the dearth of women. It behooves all of us to root out > misogyny wherever we see it! > > ../Dave > > On 9 December 2013 12:19, Renata Rocha wrote: > > I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't > > seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime > > soon. > > > > Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a > > predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend > > TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your > > colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening > > at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. > > > > I have myself promised not to come back to the meetings while I see > > this kind of harassment in public being ignored, and the people who do > > it not held accountable for their actions. > > > > What you can do: talk to these members and make them at least > > apologize for their actions and make women feel safe and comfortable > > again at the TLUG meetings. I'd love to learn and hang out with you, > > but your environment is not welcoming for me and for other women in IT > > I know. We're in this for the same reason as everyone else - learning > > and sharing. > > > > (Yes yes I realize there's more than man/woman in the world, but for > > this case specifically I wanted to keep the universe limited. ) > > > > Renata Rocha > > http://renata.org > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 19:37:58 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 14:37:58 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <1386616753.2977.5.camel-fGqV6OcQd+eU6o2RgC31msM6rOWSkUom@public.gmane.org> References: <1386616753.2977.5.camel@hive.gordhome.local> Message-ID: I am yet to attend a TLUG meet so can't really comment. I would like to apologize to Renata though if anyone did make her feel uncomfortable. I would put this down as a lesson learnt and experience gained but I would not stay away, I would get involved and there are many other ways to do exactly that :-) Just a though about there being a 'derth' of women, we do have women and kernel hackers at that, and this article by one of them who is a kernel hacker may help: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ This has a list as well of women in Linux: http://www.linuxhaxor.net/women-in-linux/ This is the wiki for ubuntu-women: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/ There are two IRC channels as well: #ubuntu-women and #ubuntu-women-project chats on irc.freenode.net port 8001 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Gordon Chillcott wrote: > Renata definitely has a point. And this has been discussed at more > than a few of the executive meetings - those discussions were often led > by Scott Sullivan, who is the current board chairman and president. > > That being said, the Code of Conduct really needs to be reviewed - > especially on this matter. > > In the meantime, an idea came to mind: There is often strength in > numbers. It might be an idea to recruit a group to attend a meeting en > mass, so to speak. It would be interesting to watch the reaction of > the group. > > Mind you, you need to select a meeting with an interesting topic. No > sense putting in an appearance, only to be bored to death. > > Gordon > > > On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 13:55 -0500, David Mason wrote: > > Thanks for the reminder. > > > > I don't attend that often, and unfortunately missed any meetings you - > > or, to the best of my memory, *any* woman - attended. As a professor > > of computer science, I am appalled at the utter male domination of our > > field, and appreciate being reminded of at least one of the factors > > leading to the the dearth of women. It behooves all of us to root out > > misogyny wherever we see it! > > > > ../Dave > > > > On 9 December 2013 12:19, Renata Rocha wrote: > > > I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't > > > seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime > > > soon. > > > > > > Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a > > > predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend > > > TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your > > > colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening > > > at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. > > > > > > I have myself promised not to come back to the meetings while I see > > > this kind of harassment in public being ignored, and the people who do > > > it not held accountable for their actions. > > > > > > What you can do: talk to these members and make them at least > > > apologize for their actions and make women feel safe and comfortable > > > again at the TLUG meetings. I'd love to learn and hang out with you, > > > but your environment is not welcoming for me and for other women in IT > > > I know. We're in this for the same reason as everyone else - learning > > > and sharing. > > > > > > (Yes yes I realize there's more than man/woman in the world, but for > > > this case specifically I wanted to keep the universe limited. ) > > > > > > Renata Rocha > > > http://renata.org > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 19:47:28 2013 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 14:47:28 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: <1386616753.2977.5.camel@hive.gordhome.local> Message-ID: Thanks, Aruna, for the support, and for sharing Good Old Val Henson's Linuxchix How to Encourage Women on Linux HOWTO. Great contribution. I have been a member of Linuxchix Brazil - a country with astonishing numbers of violence against women and I was quite surprised to find out there was no female initiative here in Canada, nor a welcoming environment for women. Again, I appreciate your contributions and I believe, together, we all can help make this group more diverse. Renata Rocha http://renata.org On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > I am yet to attend a TLUG meet so can't really comment. I would like to > apologize to Renata though if anyone did make her feel uncomfortable. I > would put this down as a lesson learnt and experience gained but I would not > stay away, I would get involved and there are many other ways to do exactly > that :-) > > Just a though about there being a 'derth' of women, we do have women and > kernel hackers at that, and this article by one of them who is a kernel > hacker may help: > > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ > > This has a list as well of women in Linux: > http://www.linuxhaxor.net/women-in-linux/ > > This is the wiki for ubuntu-women: > http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/ > > There are two IRC channels as well: > #ubuntu-women and #ubuntu-women-project chats on irc.freenode.net port 8001 > > > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Gordon Chillcott wrote: >> >> Renata definitely has a point. And this has been discussed at more >> than a few of the executive meetings - those discussions were often led >> by Scott Sullivan, who is the current board chairman and president. >> >> That being said, the Code of Conduct really needs to be reviewed - >> especially on this matter. >> >> In the meantime, an idea came to mind: There is often strength in >> numbers. It might be an idea to recruit a group to attend a meeting en >> mass, so to speak. It would be interesting to watch the reaction of >> the group. >> >> Mind you, you need to select a meeting with an interesting topic. No >> sense putting in an appearance, only to be bored to death. >> >> Gordon >> >> >> On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 13:55 -0500, David Mason wrote: >> > Thanks for the reminder. >> > >> > I don't attend that often, and unfortunately missed any meetings you - >> > or, to the best of my memory, *any* woman - attended. As a professor >> > of computer science, I am appalled at the utter male domination of our >> > field, and appreciate being reminded of at least one of the factors >> > leading to the the dearth of women. It behooves all of us to root out >> > misogyny wherever we see it! >> > >> > ../Dave >> > >> > On 9 December 2013 12:19, Renata Rocha wrote: >> > > I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't >> > > seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime >> > > soon. >> > > >> > > Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a >> > > predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend >> > > TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your >> > > colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening >> > > at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. >> > > >> > > I have myself promised not to come back to the meetings while I see >> > > this kind of harassment in public being ignored, and the people who do >> > > it not held accountable for their actions. >> > > >> > > What you can do: talk to these members and make them at least >> > > apologize for their actions and make women feel safe and comfortable >> > > again at the TLUG meetings. I'd love to learn and hang out with you, >> > > but your environment is not welcoming for me and for other women in IT >> > > I know. We're in this for the same reason as everyone else - learning >> > > and sharing. >> > > >> > > (Yes yes I realize there's more than man/woman in the world, but for >> > > this case specifically I wanted to keep the universe limited. ) >> > > >> > > Renata Rocha >> > > http://renata.org >> > > -- >> > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- >> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > Aruna Hewapathirane > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 20:22:45 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 15:22:45 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: <1386616753.2977.5.camel@hive.gordhome.local> Message-ID: <52A62695.4050007@rogers.com> Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > I am yet to attend a TLUG meet so can't really comment. I would like > to apologize to Renata though if anyone did make her feel > uncomfortable. I would put this down as a lesson learnt and experience > gained but I would not stay away, I would get involved and there are > many other ways to do exactly that :-) > > Just a though about there being a 'derth' of women, we do have women > and kernel hackers at that, and this article by one of them who is a > kernel hacker may help: > While not a Linux user, today is Grace Hopper's 107th birthday. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_hopper BTW, check out Google today. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 20:26:27 2013 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 15:26:27 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A62695.4050007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1386616753.2977.5.camel@hive.gordhome.local> <52A62695.4050007@rogers.com> Message-ID: Has somewhat inspired me to write the rant, seeing Google dedicate its doodle to Grace. Thanks for the support :) Renata Rocha http://renata.org On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:22 PM, James Knott wrote: > Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: >> I am yet to attend a TLUG meet so can't really comment. I would like >> to apologize to Renata though if anyone did make her feel >> uncomfortable. I would put this down as a lesson learnt and experience >> gained but I would not stay away, I would get involved and there are >> many other ways to do exactly that :-) >> >> Just a though about there being a 'derth' of women, we do have women >> and kernel hackers at that, and this article by one of them who is a >> kernel hacker may help: >> > > While not a Linux user, today is Grace Hopper's 107th birthday. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_hopper > > BTW, check out Google today. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kirtijee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 20:36:27 2013 From: kirtijee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kirti Prakash) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 15:36:27 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: <1386616753.2977.5.camel@hive.gordhome.local> <52A62695.4050007@rogers.com> Message-ID: Talking about women. I am one of those who has with very strong support women in their life. One being my Mother! She just an inspiration what she achieves everyday! For those, who don't know me. I am graduate of Humber College in database studies. Currently I am looking for some good mentors with my career. Any takers? Women mentors would be alright with me. Kirti On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Renata Rocha wrote: > Has somewhat inspired me to write the rant, seeing Google dedicate its > doodle to Grace. > > Thanks for the support :) > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:22 PM, James Knott > wrote: > > Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > >> I am yet to attend a TLUG meet so can't really comment. I would like > >> to apologize to Renata though if anyone did make her feel > >> uncomfortable. I would put this down as a lesson learnt and experience > >> gained but I would not stay away, I would get involved and there are > >> many other ways to do exactly that :-) > >> > >> Just a though about there being a 'derth' of women, we do have women > >> and kernel hackers at that, and this article by one of them who is a > >> kernel hacker may help: > >> > > > > While not a Linux user, today is Grace Hopper's 107th birthday. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_hopper > > > > BTW, check out Google today. > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 20:40:54 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 21:40:54 +0100 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: <1386616753.2977.5.camel@hive.gordhome.local> Message-ID: <52A62AD6.5090105@gmail.com> Pani Renata, I remember you, from the time you were not yet in Canada. I was probaly one of the the first who wished you best in Canada. But I did not believed in you. zb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 20:45:31 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 15:45:31 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour - Toronto Message-ID: Hi Everybodeee.. The Ubuntu "HOUR" Toronto is this Saturday (December 14th, 2013). The event details can be accessed here : http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ca/2659-ubuntu-hour-toronto/ Registration is not mandatory but will be helpful. We meet at the food court. Hope to see you all there ! Aruna ( Will someone please forward to crypto-toronto I do not have a email address for them. Thank you ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 21:27:10 2013 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 16:27:10 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: <1386616753.2977.5.camel@hive.gordhome.local> <52A62695.4050007@rogers.com> Message-ID: Very relevant to the discussion is the story of Dame 'Steve' Shirley, Freelance Programmer: http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2013/12/06/dame-steve-shirley-freelance-programmer/ Definitely inspires me to make a better go at things! On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Renata Rocha wrote: > Has somewhat inspired me to write the rant, seeing Google dedicate its > doodle to Grace. > > Thanks for the support :) > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:22 PM, James Knott wrote: >> Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: >>> I am yet to attend a TLUG meet so can't really comment. I would like >>> to apologize to Renata though if anyone did make her feel >>> uncomfortable. I would put this down as a lesson learnt and experience >>> gained but I would not stay away, I would get involved and there are >>> many other ways to do exactly that :-) >>> >>> Just a though about there being a 'derth' of women, we do have women >>> and kernel hackers at that, and this article by one of them who is a >>> kernel hacker may help: >>> >> >> While not a Linux user, today is Grace Hopper's 107th birthday. >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_hopper >> >> BTW, check out Google today. >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- (o< .: www.circuidipity.com .: twitter.com/circuidipity (/)_ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 22:31:12 2013 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 17:31:12 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1386628272.12226.7.camel@bliss.ss.org> I am a woman and I attend TLUG as often as I can but working in the theatre oft times Tuesdays are out for me. I was at TLUG last month and will be again this Tuesday,tomorrow in actual fact, I have never had anything but the same sort of courtesy I gave everyone there returned in kind. I am learning about Linux and everyone is most helpful. I even love going out for beer and listening to the discussions. I believe we reap what we sow. Thanks guys for always being so kind and helpful. Maureen On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 12:19 -0500, Renata Rocha wrote: > I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't > seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime > soon. > > Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a > predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend > TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your > colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening > at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. > > I have myself promised not to come back to the meetings while I see > this kind of harassment in public being ignored, and the people who do > it not held accountable for their actions. > > What you can do: talk to these members and make them at least > apologize for their actions and make women feel safe and comfortable > again at the TLUG meetings. I'd love to learn and hang out with you, > but your environment is not welcoming for me and for other women in IT > I know. We're in this for the same reason as everyone else - learning > and sharing. > > (Yes yes I realize there's more than man/woman in the world, but for > this case specifically I wanted to keep the universe limited. ) > > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 9 22:39:34 2013 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 17:39:34 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <1386628272.12226.7.camel-Cc8bTzyuDCFg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <1386628272.12226.7.camel@bliss.ss.org> Message-ID: Victim blaming and denial are the most important issues to be addressed when talking about sexism, and, unfortunately, men are not the only perpetrators of such violence. Renata Rocha http://renata.org On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Maureen wrote: > I am a woman and I attend TLUG as often as I can but working in the > theatre oft times Tuesdays are out for me. I was at TLUG last month and > will be again this Tuesday,tomorrow in actual fact, I have never had > anything but the same sort of courtesy I gave everyone there returned in > kind. I am learning about Linux and everyone is most helpful. I even > love going out for beer and listening to the discussions. > I believe we reap what we sow. > Thanks guys for always being so kind and helpful. > Maureen > > On Mon, 2013-12-09 at 12:19 -0500, Renata Rocha wrote: >> I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't >> seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime >> soon. >> >> Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a >> predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend >> TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your >> colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening >> at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. >> >> I have myself promised not to come back to the meetings while I see >> this kind of harassment in public being ignored, and the people who do >> it not held accountable for their actions. >> >> What you can do: talk to these members and make them at least >> apologize for their actions and make women feel safe and comfortable >> again at the TLUG meetings. I'd love to learn and hang out with you, >> but your environment is not welcoming for me and for other women in IT >> I know. We're in this for the same reason as everyone else - learning >> and sharing. >> >> (Yes yes I realize there's more than man/woman in the world, but for >> this case specifically I wanted to keep the universe limited. ) >> >> Renata Rocha >> http://renata.org >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 00:12:33 2013 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 10:12:33 +1000 (EST) Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Dec 2013, Renata Rocha wrote: > I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't > seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime > soon. Hi Renata. That's really a shame. You were a regular attendee a few years ago when I was going regularly. > Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a > predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend > TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your > colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening > at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. I haven't been to a meeting for a while as I'm out of the country for an extended period. Could someone provide me with specific examples of these predatory/harassing behaviours? Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.pracops.com Information behaves like a gas -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 01:39:14 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 20:39:14 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52A670C2.6080805@sobac.com> Hi Renata: I've only been to one TLUG meeting, although I've been to a number of other tech events in Toronto at Linuxcaffe and Free Geek. And not just the grass-roots events like LUGs and Ubuntu Hours, but also the big commercial events at the Convention Centre, &c. And I go to _many_ tech events in Kitchener-Waterloo. I've got to say I haven't seen or heard of any sexist experiences at any of the events I go to. I don't know if that's because I wouldn't tolerate it if it happened around me, or because it just hasn't happened around me, or maybe because I've been oblivious. I hope you'll come to Aruna's Ubuntu Hour this Saturday. As an Ubuntu event any non-inclusive behaviour is not tolerated. That doesn't mean that people don't get passionate about their ideas. Just mention "Unity vs. Gnome" or "Emacs vs. vi" and see if the volume of the discussion doesn't go up. And while it's likely there is going to be a gender imbalance at Saturday's Ubuntu Hour, there will be other women present. Maybe give the TLUG meeting tomorrow another chance too. Now that we've been alerted to undesireable behaviour I expect everyone will be on the lookout for it, and will deal with it before it has a chance to occur again. --Bob. (Agreement with The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is required at any event using the Ubuntu name. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour and http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct ) What: Ubuntu Hour Toronto When: Saturday, 14 December 2013 2:00pm ? 4:00pm EDT Where: Dufferin Mall, 900 Dufferin Street, Toronto, ON M6H 1K8 Registration: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ca/2659/detail/ (optional, but appreciated) On 13-12-09 12:19 PM, Renata Rocha wrote: > I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't > seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime > soon. > > Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a > predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend > TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your > colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening > at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. > > I have myself promised not to come back to the meetings while I see > this kind of harassment in public being ignored, and the people who do > it not held accountable for their actions. > > What you can do: talk to these members and make them at least > apologize for their actions and make women feel safe and comfortable > again at the TLUG meetings. I'd love to learn and hang out with you, > but your environment is not welcoming for me and for other women in IT > I know. We're in this for the same reason as everyone else - learning > and sharing. > > (Yes yes I realize there's more than man/woman in the world, but for > this case specifically I wanted to keep the universe limited. ) > > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 02:33:46 2013 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 21:33:46 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A670C2.6080805-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A670C2.6080805@sobac.com> Message-ID: <52A67D8A.2030804@alteeve.ca> On 09/12/13 20:39, Bob Jonkman wrote: > Hi Renata: I've only been to one TLUG meeting, although I've been > to a number of other tech events in Toronto at Linuxcaffe and Free > Geek. And not just the grass-roots events like LUGs and Ubuntu > Hours, but also the big commercial events at the Convention Centre, > &c. And I go to _many_ tech events in Kitchener-Waterloo. > > I've got to say I haven't seen or heard of any sexist experiences > at any of the events I go to. I don't know if that's because I > wouldn't tolerate it if it happened around me, or because it just > hasn't happened around me, or maybe because I've been oblivious. > > I hope you'll come to Aruna's Ubuntu Hour this Saturday. As an > Ubuntu event any non-inclusive behaviour is not tolerated. That > doesn't mean that people don't get passionate about their ideas. > Just mention "Unity vs. Gnome" or "Emacs vs. vi" and see if the > volume of the discussion doesn't go up. And while it's likely there > is going to be a gender imbalance at Saturday's Ubuntu Hour, there > will be other women present. > > Maybe give the TLUG meeting tomorrow another chance too. Now that > we've been alerted to undesireable behaviour I expect everyone will > be on the lookout for it, and will deal with it before it has a > chance to occur again. > > --Bob. For what it's worthy, and given that I don't know anything about the even Reneta is talking about, I've been on the receiving end of harassment before. I actually had to quit a job because management couldn't understand what was bothering me. In my case, the guy would in one breath tear me down; "why'd you use that function name? That's not smart" right in front of everyone, then in the next breath say stuff like "I like your hair". It's creepy as heck. The other guys I worked with saw it, and they were good guys, but they didn't understand why it was upset. I think the problem isn't good guys not speaking up, it's good guys not realizing when something is wrong. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 02:41:36 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 21:41:36 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A67D8A.2030804-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <52A670C2.6080805@sobac.com> <52A67D8A.2030804@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: Well, please rest assured abusive or sexist behavior will have zero-tolerance at the Ubuntu Hour or any other hour. The code of conduct expected of participants and presenters will be adhered to strictly as is below: We strive to: - Be considerate Our work will be used by other people, and we in turn will depend on the work of others. Any decision we take will affect users and colleagues, and we should consider them when making decisions. - Be respectful Disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. We work together to resolve conflict, assume good intentions and do our best to act in an empathic fashion. We don't allow frustration to turn into a personal attack. A community where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one. - Take responsibility for our words and our actions We can all make mistakes; when we do, we take responsibility for them. If someone has been harmed or offended, we listen carefully and respectfully, and work to right the wrong. - Be collaborative What we produce is a complex whole made of many parts, it is the sum of many dreams. Collaboration between teams that each have their own goal and vision is essential; for the whole to be more than the sum of its parts, each part must make an effort to understand the whole. Collaboration reduces redundancy and improves the quality of our work. Internally and externally, we celebrate good collaboration. Wherever possible, we work closely with upstream projects and others in the free software community to coordinate our efforts. We prefer to work transparently and involve interested parties as early as possible. - Value decisiveness, clarity and consensus Disagreements, social and technical, are normal, but we do not allow them to persist and fester leaving others uncertain of the agreed direction. We expect participants in the project to resolve disagreements constructively. When they cannot, we escalate the matter to structures with designated leaders to arbitrate and provide clarity and direction. - Ask for help when unsure Nobody is expected to be perfect in this community. Asking questions early avoids many problems later, so questions are encouraged, though they may be directed to the appropriate forum. Those who are asked should be responsive and helpful. - Step down considerately When somebody leaves or disengages from the project, we ask that they do so in a way that minimises disruption to the project. They should tell people they are leaving and take the proper steps to ensure that others can pick up where they left off. Leadership, authority and responsibility We all lead by example, in debate and in action. We encourage new participants to feel empowered to lead, to take action, and to experiment when they feel innovation could improve the project. Leadership can be exercised by anyone simply by taking action, there is no need to wait for recognition when the opportunity to lead presents itself. Delegation from the top Responsibility for the project starts with the "benevolent dictator", who delegates specific responsibilities and the corresponding authority to a series of teams, councils and individuals, starting with the Community Council ("CC"). That Council or its delegated representative will arbitrate in any dispute. We are a meritocracy; we delegate decision making, governance and leadership from senior bodies to the most able and engaged candidates. Support for delegation is measured Nominations to the boards and councils are at the discretion of the Community Council, however the Community Council will seek the input of the community before confirming appointments. Leadership is not an award, right, or title; it is a privilege, a responsibility and a mandate. A leader will only retain their authority as long as they retain the support of those who delegated that authority to them. We value discussion, data and decisiveness We gather opinions, data and commitments from concerned parties before taking a decision. We expect leaders to help teams come to a decision in a reasonable time, to seek guidance or be willing to take the decision themselves when consensus is lacking, and to take responsibility for implementation. The poorest decision of all is no decision: clarity of direction has value in itself. Sometimes all the data are not available, or consensus is elusive. A decision must still be made. There is no guarantee of a perfect decision every time - we prefer to err, learn, and err less in future than to postpone action indefinitely. We recognise that the project works better when we trust the teams closest to a problem to make the decision for the project. If we learn of a decision that we disagree with, we can engage the relevant team to find common ground, and failing that, we have a governance structure that can review the decision. Ultimately, if a decision has been taken by the people responsible for it, and is supported by the project governance, it will stand. None of us expects to agree with every decision, and we value highly the willingness to stand by the project and help it deliver even on the occasions when we ourselves may prefer a different route. Open meritocracy We invite anybody, from any company, to participate in any aspect of the project. Our community is open, and any responsibility can be carried by any contributor who demonstrates the required capacity and competence. Teamwork A leader's foremost goal is the success of the team. "A virtuoso is judged by their actions; a leader is judged by the actions of their team." A leader knows when to act and when to step back. They know when to delegate work, and when to take it upon themselves. Credit A good leader does not seek the limelight, but celebrates team members for the work they do. Leaders may be more visible than members of the team, good ones use that visibility to highlight the great work of others. Courage and considerateness Leadership occasionally requires bold decisions that will not be widely understood, consensual or popular. We value the courage to take such decisions, because they enable the project as a whole to move forward faster than we could if we required complete consensus. Nevertheless, boldness demands considerateness; take bold decisions, but do so mindful of the challenges they present for others, and work to soften the impact of those decisions on them. Communicating changes and their reasoning clearly and early on is as important as the implementation of the change itself. Conflicts of interest We expect leaders to be aware when they are conflicted due to employment or other projects they are involved in, and abstain or delegate decisions that may be seen to be self-interested. We expect that everyone who participates in the project does so with the goal of making life better for its users. When in doubt, ask for a second opinion. Perceived conflicts of interest are important to address; as a leader, act to ensure that decisions are credible even if they must occasionally be unpopular, difficult or favourable to the interests of one group over another. This Code is not exhaustive or complete. It is not a rulebook; it serves to distill our common understanding of a collaborative, shared environment and goals. We expect it to be followed in spirit as much as in the letter. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:33 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 09/12/13 20:39, Bob Jonkman wrote: > > Hi Renata: I've only been to one TLUG meeting, although I've been > > to a number of other tech events in Toronto at Linuxcaffe and Free > > Geek. And not just the grass-roots events like LUGs and Ubuntu > > Hours, but also the big commercial events at the Convention Centre, > > &c. And I go to _many_ tech events in Kitchener-Waterloo. > > > > I've got to say I haven't seen or heard of any sexist experiences > > at any of the events I go to. I don't know if that's because I > > wouldn't tolerate it if it happened around me, or because it just > > hasn't happened around me, or maybe because I've been oblivious. > > > > I hope you'll come to Aruna's Ubuntu Hour this Saturday. As an > > Ubuntu event any non-inclusive behaviour is not tolerated. That > > doesn't mean that people don't get passionate about their ideas. > > Just mention "Unity vs. Gnome" or "Emacs vs. vi" and see if the > > volume of the discussion doesn't go up. And while it's likely there > > is going to be a gender imbalance at Saturday's Ubuntu Hour, there > > will be other women present. > > > > Maybe give the TLUG meeting tomorrow another chance too. Now that > > we've been alerted to undesireable behaviour I expect everyone will > > be on the lookout for it, and will deal with it before it has a > > chance to occur again. > > > > --Bob. > > For what it's worthy, and given that I don't know anything about the > even Reneta is talking about, I've been on the receiving end of > harassment before. I actually had to quit a job because management > couldn't understand what was bothering me. > > In my case, the guy would in one breath tear me down; "why'd you use > that function name? That's not smart" right in front of everyone, then > in the next breath say stuff like "I like your hair". It's creepy as > heck. The other guys I worked with saw it, and they were good guys, > but they didn't understand why it was upset. > > I think the problem isn't good guys not speaking up, it's good guys > not realizing when something is wrong. > > -- > Digimer > Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ > What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without > access to education? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 13:16:47 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 08:16:47 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Renata Rocha wrote: > I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't > seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime > soon. > > Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a > predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend > TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your > colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening > at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. > > I have myself promised not to come back to the meetings while I see > this kind of harassment in public being ignored, and the people who do > it not held accountable for their actions. > > What you can do: talk to these members and make them at least > apologize for their actions and make women feel safe and comfortable > again at the TLUG meetings. I'd love to learn and hang out with you, > but your environment is not welcoming for me and for other women in IT > I know. We're in this for the same reason as everyone else - learning > and sharing. > > (Yes yes I realize there's more than man/woman in the world, but for > this case specifically I wanted to keep the universe limited. ) > > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org First let me note that I know my behavior has not been perfect, and for any distress I may have caused let me apologize. Beyond this there is at least one person who I know to be much, much worse than myself, who I don't know how to deal with. The temptation is to say "well that is so-and-so being so-and-so...", further knowing that short of the use of a baseball bat, so-and-so is not likely to change (so-and-so seems to enjoy playing the jerk too much...). I'm not sure what the way forward is (issuing baseball bats to the women who do show up at the meetings isn't a solution...), but I would like to see more women at GTALug meetings. Colin McGregor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 13:32:32 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 08:32:32 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52A717F0.9020109@ss.org> On 12/10/2013 08:16 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > I'm not sure what the way forward is (issuing baseball bats to the women > who do show up at the meetings isn't a solution...), but I would like to > see more women at GTALug meetings. I must admit that the 'clue stick' has been a time honoured meme in our industry. But that aside, I agree that trading violence against women for violence against men is not a constructive solution. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 13:40:22 2013 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 08:40:22 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A717F0.9020109-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <52A717F0.9020109@ss.org> Message-ID: I'm against any sort of violence. I'd like to see some effort in educating our members on why such behaviour is unhealthy and keeps women distant from the group. But we're already doing great in acknowledging it exists - baby steps. Renata Rocha http://renata.org On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:32 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 12/10/2013 08:16 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> I'm not sure what the way forward is (issuing baseball bats to the women >> who do show up at the meetings isn't a solution...), but I would like to >> see more women at GTALug meetings. > > > I must admit that the 'clue stick' has been a time honoured meme in our > industry. But that aside, I agree that trading violence against women for > violence against men is not a constructive solution. > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 14:34:43 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 09:34:43 -0500 Subject: Supper... Message-ID: GTALug no longer has a "official" before meeting restaurant recommendation, but there will be a few of us gathering at Lou Dawgs (76 Gerrard St E, Toronto) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=43.66009&mlon=-79.37804#map=19/43.66009/-79.37804. All are welcome to join us. It will be a short walk from the Lou Dawgs to the meeting location. Do note, a strength of Lou Dawgs is their smoked meat sandwiches, and a weakness is that they are NOT vegetarian friendly (sorry about the latter). Colin McGregor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 15:31:12 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 10:31:12 -0500 Subject: OT: Any active BSD groups or mailing lists in GTA? Message-ID: <20131210153112.GB2211@waltdnes.org> I've joined one BSD mailing list, but it seems dead. Does anybody know of a currently active group/list in the GTA? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 16:04:59 2013 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 08:04:59 -0800 Subject: OT: Any active BSD groups or mailing lists in GTA? Message-ID: <8194890648127301955@unknownmsgid> I have been lurking on TLUG for about 8 years since its the closest thing to a BSDUG From: Walter Dnes Sent: 2013-12-10 10:31 AM To: Toronto Linux Users Group Subject: [TLUG]: OT: Any active BSD groups or mailing lists in GTA? I've joined one BSD mailing list, but it seems dead. Does anybody know of a currently active group/list in the GTA? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 16:10:15 2013 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 11:10:15 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've never had any problems with your behaviour, Colin, but I'm glad you can do a self-assessment and apologize in public for mistakes you might have done in the past. That's the right thing to do. I dislike the idea of pointing at people and telling that they've done this or that, as this accomplishes nothing - people need to realize their own mistakes and how some attitudes affect negatively others. I strongly believe in educating over punishing. I'm a strong believer in consent and touching someone or making jokes of crude nature without consent should not be tolerated at all. It's *not funny* and when you ignore these attitudes two things are happening: - you're giving the person permission to keep doing it, as it were an acceptable thing to do - you're giving the rest of the group permission to do the same, because nobody said anything against it Then it escalates. So when a female joins the group and sees another being a victim of this, she expects to be treated the same way by the group, as it's only logical. And you all also know if a woman wanted to find a romantic partner, TLUG would be the last place to go for it - there are plenty of online services offering matchmaking these days. I believe TLUG should be treated as a workplace, and if you wouldn't say/do something to a woman at your workplace because of the harassment/sexual harassment rules, then think twice before doing it at TLUG. Keyword: CONSENT. Renata Rocha http://renata.org On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Renata Rocha wrote: >> >> I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't >> seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime >> soon. >> >> Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a >> predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend >> TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your >> colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening >> at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. >> >> I have myself promised not to come back to the meetings while I see >> this kind of harassment in public being ignored, and the people who do >> it not held accountable for their actions. >> >> What you can do: talk to these members and make them at least >> apologize for their actions and make women feel safe and comfortable >> again at the TLUG meetings. I'd love to learn and hang out with you, >> but your environment is not welcoming for me and for other women in IT >> I know. We're in this for the same reason as everyone else - learning >> and sharing. >> >> (Yes yes I realize there's more than man/woman in the world, but for >> this case specifically I wanted to keep the universe limited. ) >> >> Renata Rocha >> http://renata.org > > > > First let me note that I know my behavior has not been perfect, and for any > distress I may have caused let me apologize. > > Beyond this there is at least one person who I know to be much, much worse > than myself, who I don't know how to deal with. The temptation is to say > "well that is so-and-so being so-and-so...", further knowing that short of > the use of a baseball bat, so-and-so is not likely to change (so-and-so > seems to enjoy playing the jerk too much...). > > I'm not sure what the way forward is (issuing baseball bats to the women who > do show up at the meetings isn't a solution...), but I would like to see > more women at GTALug meetings. > > > Colin McGregor > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 16:30:14 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 11:30:14 -0500 Subject: OT: Any active BSD groups or mailing lists in GTA? In-Reply-To: <20131210153112.GB2211-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20131210153112.GB2211@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > I've joined one BSD mailing list, but it seems dead. Does anybody > know of a currently active group/list in the GTA? > While not BSD specific you might want to look at Unix Unanimous, a group that deals in all Unix and Unix like OSs: http://www.unixunanimous.org/ Now, full disclosure here, I am currently the moderator of Unix Unanimous. and I think you will find us a fairly friendly bunch... Colin McGregor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 17:13:28 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 18:13:28 +0100 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> This is sick. I care now she is a woman or not. On 10/12/13 17:10, Renata Rocha wrote: > I've never had any problems with your behaviour, Colin, but I'm glad > you can do a self-assessment and apologize in public for mistakes you > might have done in the past. That's the right thing to do. > > I dislike the idea of pointing at people and telling that they've done > this or that, as this accomplishes nothing - people need to realize > their own mistakes and how some attitudes affect negatively others. I > strongly believe in educating over punishing. > > I'm a strong believer in consent and touching someone or making jokes > of crude nature without consent should not be tolerated at all. It's > *not funny* and when you ignore these attitudes two things are > happening: > - you're giving the person permission to keep doing it, as it were an > acceptable thing to do > - you're giving the rest of the group permission to do the same, > because nobody said anything against it > > Then it escalates. > > So when a female joins the group and sees another being a victim of > this, she expects to be treated the same way by the group, as it's > only logical. > > And you all also know if a woman wanted to find a romantic partner, > TLUG would be the last place to go for it - there are plenty of online > services offering matchmaking these days. > > I believe TLUG should be treated as a workplace, and if you wouldn't > say/do something to a woman at your workplace because of the > harassment/sexual harassment rules, then think twice before doing it > at TLUG. > > Keyword: CONSENT. > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Renata Rocha wrote: >>> I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't >>> seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime >>> soon. >>> >>> Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a >>> predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend >>> TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your >>> colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening >>> at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. >>> >>> I have myself promised not to come back to the meetings while I see >>> this kind of harassment in public being ignored, and the people who do >>> it not held accountable for their actions. >>> >>> What you can do: talk to these members and make them at least >>> apologize for their actions and make women feel safe and comfortable >>> again at the TLUG meetings. I'd love to learn and hang out with you, >>> but your environment is not welcoming for me and for other women in IT >>> I know. We're in this for the same reason as everyone else - learning >>> and sharing. >>> >>> (Yes yes I realize there's more than man/woman in the world, but for >>> this case specifically I wanted to keep the universe limited. ) >>> >>> Renata Rocha >>> http://renata.org >> >> >> First let me note that I know my behavior has not been perfect, and for any >> distress I may have caused let me apologize. >> >> Beyond this there is at least one person who I know to be much, much worse >> than myself, who I don't know how to deal with. The temptation is to say >> "well that is so-and-so being so-and-so...", further knowing that short of >> the use of a baseball bat, so-and-so is not likely to change (so-and-so >> seems to enjoy playing the jerk too much...). >> >> I'm not sure what the way forward is (issuing baseball bats to the women who >> do show up at the meetings isn't a solution...), but I would like to see >> more women at GTALug meetings. >> >> >> Colin McGregor >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 18:35:51 2013 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 13:35:51 -0500 Subject: Call for SubmissionsPaticipatory Practices in Science and Art Message-ID: <1386700551.11510.6.camel@jimslaptop> I thought some people on the list may be interested in the theme of this years Subtle Technologies Festival, The theme investigates a number of interesting themes from open science to open source. More info here: http://subtletechnologies.com/festival/call-for-submissions/ Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 18:37:20 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 13:37:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A74BB8.30808-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Zbigniew Koziol | But I did not believed in you. This seems like an attack. It could just be non-native speaker of English getting it wrong. I asked offline for a clarification but haven't resolved this. | From: Zbigniew Koziol | This is sick. I care now she is a woman or not. I don't understand this (it isn't quite English), but it too seems like an attack. What's up? Zbigniew doesn't even go to TLUG meetings (wrong continent). So Renata couldn't have been talking about him: he hasn't even the justification of reacting to a preceived attack. And he is unlikely to have observed what Renata is talking about. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 18:48:49 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 19:48:49 +0100 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52A76211.9050307@gmail.com> Hugh, please calm down. Sure, my English is not perfect. Though I lived in Canada for around 14 years. I lived also in Russia for 5 years, and now if you care I am in Poland, as assistant professor in physics ;) You may google for me if you want. Some people of this group should remember me. I am still officialy Canadian citizen. So I care. I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? Regards, zb. On 10/12/13 19:37, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Zbigniew Koziol > > | But I did not believed in you. > > This seems like an attack. It could just be non-native speaker of > English getting it wrong. > > I asked offline for a clarification but haven't resolved this. > > > | From: Zbigniew Koziol > > | This is sick. I care now she is a woman or not. > > I don't understand this (it isn't quite English), but it too seems > like an attack. > > > What's up? Zbigniew doesn't even go to TLUG meetings (wrong > continent). So Renata couldn't have been talking about him: he > hasn't even the justification of reacting to a preceived attack. > And he is unlikely to have observed what Renata is talking about. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 18:55:56 2013 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 13:55:56 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A76211.9050307-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> <52A76211.9050307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52A763BC.7030801@mylesbraithwaite.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? > > Regards, > zb. A lot of people would consider your comments silly, sick, and nonsense. Your comments aren't helping this discussion. If you continue to attack others on this mailing list you will be banned. -- Myles Braithwaite | http://mylesb.ca/e -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 18:56:14 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:56:14 -0200 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A76211.9050307-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> <52A76211.9050307@gmail.com> Message-ID: zb, Looks like people could not understand what you tried to say. If you could rewrite what you said, I think we will be able to understand: 1: But I did not believed in you. 2: This is sick. I care now she is a woman or not. I am not a native English speaker too, and I once thought I was saying one thing, but ended up saying something completely different. It happens... But if you rewrite, it will be fine. Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2013/12/10 Zbigniew Koziol > Hugh, please calm down. > > Sure, my English is not perfect. Though I lived in Canada for around 14 > years. I lived also in Russia for 5 years, and now if you care I am in > Poland, as assistant professor in physics ;) You may google for me if you > want. Some people of this group should remember me. I am still officialy > Canadian citizen. So I care. > > I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? > > Regards, > zb. > > > > > > > > On 10/12/13 19:37, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> | From: Zbigniew Koziol >> >> | But I did not believed in you. >> >> This seems like an attack. It could just be non-native speaker of >> English getting it wrong. >> >> I asked offline for a clarification but haven't resolved this. >> >> >> | From: Zbigniew Koziol >> >> | This is sick. I care now she is a woman or not. >> >> I don't understand this (it isn't quite English), but it too seems >> like an attack. >> >> >> What's up? Zbigniew doesn't even go to TLUG meetings (wrong >> continent). So Renata couldn't have been talking about him: he >> hasn't even the justification of reacting to a preceived attack. >> And he is unlikely to have observed what Renata is talking about. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 18:59:54 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 19:59:54 +0100 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A763BC.7030801-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> <52A76211.9050307@gmail.com> <52A763BC.7030801@mylesbraithwaite.com> Message-ID: <52A764AA.5050602@gmail.com> On 10/12/13 19:55, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? >> >> Regards, >> zb. > A lot of people would consider your comments silly, sick, and nonsense. > > Your comments aren't helping this discussion. If you continue to attack > others on this mailing list you will be banned. ha, ha, ha. Please ban me than? Methods of Lenin and Trocky? Fuck you. I guess I were on this list before you was born. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 19:02:42 2013 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 14:02:42 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A764AA.5050602-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> <52A76211.9050307@gmail.com> <52A763BC.7030801@mylesbraithwaite.com> <52A764AA.5050602@gmail.com> Message-ID: ????u?q ??po? ? ?q plno? or a hacked account? -tl On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On 10/12/13 19:55, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > >> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> >>> I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? >>> >>> Regards, >>> zb. >>> >> A lot of people would consider your comments silly, sick, and nonsense. >> >> Your comments aren't helping this discussion. If you continue to attack >> others on this mailing list you will be banned. >> > ha, ha, ha. Please ban me than? > > Methods of Lenin and Trocky? Fuck you. > > I guess I were on this list before you was born. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 19:04:21 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 14:04:21 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Renata Rocha wrote: > I've never had any problems with your behaviour, Colin, but I'm glad > you can do a self-assessment and apologize in public for mistakes you > might have done in the past. That's the right thing to do. > Thanks... > I dislike the idea of pointing at people and telling that they've done > this or that, as this accomplishes nothing - people need to realize > their own mistakes and how some attitudes affect negatively others. I > strongly believe in educating over punishing. > The problem we have is at least one so-and-so who always seems happiest when everyone around them (male or female) is ... at least somewhat ... uncomfortable. In other words, education is NOT the issue here, we are dealing with a different / larger issue here. In fact, telling some people they are causing issues may make things worse as the person then knows they are getting under the skin of their "target". I'm a strong believer in consent and touching someone or making jokes > of crude nature without consent should not be tolerated at all. It's > *not funny* and when you ignore these attitudes two things are > happening: > - you're giving the person permission to keep doing it, as it were an > acceptable thing to do > - you're giving the rest of the group permission to do the same, > because nobody said anything against it > > Then it escalates. > > So when a female joins the group and sees another being a victim of > this, she expects to be treated the same way by the group, as it's > only logical. > > And you all also know if a woman wanted to find a romantic partner, > TLUG would be the last place to go for it - there are plenty of online > services offering matchmaking these days. > > I believe TLUG should be treated as a workplace, and if you wouldn't > say/do something to a woman at your workplace because of the > harassment/sexual harassment rules, then think twice before doing it > at TLUG. > I think the GTALug board needs to do two things, first a clear code of conduct so there are no secrets regarding what will / will not be tolerated. Second will be to have some sort of penalty (or penalties) severe enough to make the violators of the code of conduct think twice or in the most extreme cases cause them to go away for violations (the later could be a challenge... :-( ). Colin. > Keyword: CONSENT. > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Colin McGregor > wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Renata Rocha > wrote: > >> > >> I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't > >> seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime > >> soon. > >> > >> Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a > >> predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend > >> TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your > >> colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening > >> at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. > >> > >> I have myself promised not to come back to the meetings while I see > >> this kind of harassment in public being ignored, and the people who do > >> it not held accountable for their actions. > >> > >> What you can do: talk to these members and make them at least > >> apologize for their actions and make women feel safe and comfortable > >> again at the TLUG meetings. I'd love to learn and hang out with you, > >> but your environment is not welcoming for me and for other women in IT > >> I know. We're in this for the same reason as everyone else - learning > >> and sharing. > >> > >> (Yes yes I realize there's more than man/woman in the world, but for > >> this case specifically I wanted to keep the universe limited. ) > >> > >> Renata Rocha > >> http://renata.org > > > > > > > > First let me note that I know my behavior has not been perfect, and for > any > > distress I may have caused let me apologize. > > > > Beyond this there is at least one person who I know to be much, much > worse > > than myself, who I don't know how to deal with. The temptation is to say > > "well that is so-and-so being so-and-so...", further knowing that short > of > > the use of a baseball bat, so-and-so is not likely to change (so-and-so > > seems to enjoy playing the jerk too much...). > > > > I'm not sure what the way forward is (issuing baseball bats to the women > who > > do show up at the meetings isn't a solution...), but I would like to see > > more women at GTALug meetings. > > > > > > Colin McGregor > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 19:06:57 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 14:06:57 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A764AA.5050602-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> <52A76211.9050307@gmail.com> <52A763BC.7030801@mylesbraithwaite.com> <52A764AA.5050602@gmail.com> Message-ID: Zb Your use of expletives sir does not give credibility to your being a assistant professor, neither does your interpretation of concerns raised by a female member of this list reflect well on your integrity as a human being. Having the said academic credentials is worthless if one is unable to act considerately and with empathy and compassion. Tsk-Tsk such language ! On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On 10/12/13 19:55, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > >> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> >>> I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? >>> >>> Regards, >>> zb. >>> >> A lot of people would consider your comments silly, sick, and nonsense. >> >> Your comments aren't helping this discussion. If you continue to attack >> others on this mailing list you will be banned. >> > ha, ha, ha. Please ban me than? > > Methods of Lenin and Trocky? Fuck you. > > I guess I were on this list before you was born. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 19:12:43 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 20:12:43 +0100 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> <52A76211.9050307@gmail.com> <52A763BC.7030801@mylesbraithwaite.com> <52A764AA.5050602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52A767AB.3050103@gmail.com> On 10/12/13 20:06, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > Zb > > Your use of expletives sir does not give credibility to your being a > assistant professor, neither does your interpretation of concerns > raised by a female member of this list reflect well on your integrity > as a human being. Having the said academic credentials is worthless if > one is unable to act considerately and with empathy and compassion. > > Tsk-Tsk such language ! Thank you. Incredible ignorant. In general, now thinking just goes entirely irrational. Good that I am old enough and have no much time to live. zb. > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Zbigniew Koziol > wrote: > > On 10/12/13 19:55, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? > > Regards, > zb. > > A lot of people would consider your comments silly, sick, and > nonsense. > > Your comments aren't helping this discussion. If you continue > to attack > others on this mailing list you will be banned. > > ha, ha, ha. Please ban me than? > > Methods of Lenin and Trocky? Fuck you. > > I guess I were on this list before you was born. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > *Aruna Hewapathirane* > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website:Open Source Solutions > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 19:14:27 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 14:14:27 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A767AB.3050103-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> <52A76211.9050307@gmail.com> <52A763BC.7030801@mylesbraithwaite.com> <52A764AA.5050602@gmail.com> <52A767AB.3050103@gmail.com> Message-ID: Being senile is not a excuse and ignorance has manifested well in your comments :-) On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On 10/12/13 20:06, Aruna Hewapathirane wrote: > > Zb > > Your use of expletives sir does not give credibility to your being a > assistant professor, neither does your interpretation of concerns raised by > a female member of this list reflect well on your integrity as a human > being. Having the said academic credentials is worthless if one is unable > to act considerately and with empathy and compassion. > > Tsk-Tsk such language ! > > > > Thank you. > > Incredible ignorant. In general, now thinking just goes entirely > irrational. Good that I am old enough and have no much time to live. > > zb. > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> On 10/12/13 19:55, Myles Braithwaite wrote: >> >>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>> >>>> I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> zb. >>>> >>> A lot of people would consider your comments silly, sick, and nonsense. >>> >>> Your comments aren't helping this discussion. If you continue to attack >>> others on this mailing list you will be banned. >>> >> ha, ha, ha. Please ban me than? >> >> Methods of Lenin and Trocky? Fuck you. >> >> I guess I were on this list before you was born. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > *Aruna Hewapathirane* > Consultant/Trainer > Phone : 647-709-9269 > Website: Open Source Solutions > > > > > > > -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 19:58:27 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 14:58:27 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A76211.9050307-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> <52A76211.9050307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20131210195827.GO20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 07:48:49PM +0100, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Hugh, please calm down. > > Sure, my English is not perfect. Though I lived in Canada for around > 14 years. I lived also in Russia for 5 years, and now if you care I > am in Poland, as assistant professor in physics ;) You may google > for me if you want. Some people of this group should remember me. I > am still officialy Canadian citizen. So I care. > > I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? So how do you tolerate your own writing? What Renata wrote made perfect sense, unlike what you wrote. I have never attended a meeting (well they are downtown and in general I am not). I would hope people were professional if I did show up at a meeting ever (I keep thinking I should). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 20:14:14 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 21:14:14 +0100 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <20131210195827.GO20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> <52A76211.9050307@gmail.com> <20131210195827.GO20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <52A77616.7090509@gmail.com> Here is what I got. Nice? =================================================== Be careful Professori : User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0 =================================================== The message was addressed as from my email address. Dont be stupid there? You see no problem? Idiots if you do not. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 20:17:32 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 15:17:32 -0500 Subject: OT: Any active BSD groups or mailing lists in GTA? In-Reply-To: References: <20131210153112.GB2211@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20131210201732.GA24869@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:30:14AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > http://www.unixunanimous.org/ I might show up this month. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 20:34:22 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 21:34:22 +0100 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A77616.7090509-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> <52A76211.9050307@gmail.com> <20131210195827.GO20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <52A77616.7090509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52A77ACE.1090601@gmail.com> Even more. This is in my own send mail folder on my local computer. No, I am not so much into researching this silly jokes. But this is a something for the police, rather. How silly you are there. I am with people on the internet since around 1995. I had also case to deal with the Police in Canada. People, wake up! Be normal! Now, when I have a somewhat critical comments I am supposed to be treated in this way? You do not see what is going on around? This IS a matter for the police. zb. On 10/12/13 21:14, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Here is what I got. Nice? > > =================================================== > > Be careful Professori : User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; > rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0 > > =================================================== > > The message was addressed as from my email address. > > > Dont be stupid there? You see no problem? > > Idiots if you do not. > > zb. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 20:36:28 2013 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 21:36:28 +0100 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <52A77ACE.1090601-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A74BB8.30808@gmail.com> <52A76211.9050307@gmail.com> <20131210195827.GO20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <52A77616.7090509@gmail.com> <52A77ACE.1090601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52A77B4C.3040206@gmail.com> next one, this time in Polish. Why? Not nice at all. ================================ wkurwiasz mnie !! Please be POLITE in future ================================ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 20:39:39 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 15:39:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: war story: some USB flash memories are very slow Message-ID: TL;DR: When dding to a raw USB flash memory, you can save perhaps half the time by: 1) using a reasonably sized buffer. 1M seems enough. 2) using direct I/O. Example: dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi oflag=direct bs=16M && eject /dev/sdi The Story ========= The "normal" way of installing Fedora is via DVD. There are other ways, such as over the LAN. I don't want to waste DVDs, so I like to use a USB flash memory stick. Today I downloaded and installed the Fedora 20 beta. This was the install DVD image, not the live image. I dded the image to a USB stick. This seems to be the way you have to do it for this image. The dd took 36 minutes for 4.6 GB. That seems very slow to me. That's about 20k / second. The command was: time sudo dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi The time might be an underestimate because some blocks were probably not yet flushed to the stick. Should I have specified a (larger) block size? I assume that caching makes that moot. [enter Science Mode] Apparatus: - desktop computer: I7-4770 processor, 24G RAM, Fedora 19 desktop with some firefox windows/tabs open - source file is on an SSD. In fact everything is. - USB stick: Kingston 8GB DataTraveler 101. Not known for speed. Should I have used the direct I/O and a larger block size? This command took only 20 minutes: time sudo dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi oflag=direct bs=1M Seems to make a significant difference. Is caching distorting things? Right after the previous command, I did the following: time sudo dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi bs=1M and it took only 12 seconds! But then I did: time sync and that took 31.5 minutes! So caching significantly distorts timing. Time for fresh experiments. su for these (to avoid possible sudo password delays). Eject USB drive & reinsert, clearing all caching: eject /dev/sdi # remove and re-insert USB drive umount /dev/sdi1 Time the naive dd: time dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi ; time eject /dev/sdi real 38m7.526s real 0m0.254s Note: almost no time required for flushing the cache (eject must do that). Quite surprising. Re-insert drive & unmount. Time the naive dd with a larger buffer: time dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi bs=1M ; time eject /dev/sdi real 31m54.402s real 0m0.733s Note: larger buffer made a difference even when going through buffer cache. Re-insert drive & unmount. time the direct I/O version with a larger buffer: time dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi oflag=direct bs=1M ; time eject /dev/sdi real 20m7.544s real 0m0.003s Note: direct I/O made a significant difference. Re-insert drive & unmount. time the direct I/O version with a still larger buffer: time dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi oflag=direct bs=16M ; time eject /dev/sdi real 20m7.903s real 0m0.004s Note: the still larger buffer made no difference with direct I/O. I'm too lazy to try smaller sizes: I can easily spare 1M of RAM for this command. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 21:22:09 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:22:09 -0500 Subject: war story: some USB flash memories are very slow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131210212209.GP20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 03:39:39PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > TL;DR: > > When dding to a raw USB flash memory, you can save perhaps half the > time by: > > 1) using a reasonably sized buffer. 1M seems enough. > 2) using direct I/O. > > Example: > dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi oflag=direct bs=16M && eject /dev/sdi > > > The Story > ========= > > The "normal" way of installing Fedora is via DVD. There are other ways, > such as over the LAN. > > I don't want to waste DVDs, so I like to use a USB flash memory stick. > > Today I downloaded and installed the Fedora 20 beta. This was the install > DVD image, not the live image. > > I dded the image to a USB stick. This seems to be the way you have to do > it for this image. The dd took 36 minutes for 4.6 GB. That seems very > slow to me. That's about 20k / second. By my calculations it is 2.1MB/second. Still not great. > The command was: > time sudo dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi > The time might be an underestimate because some blocks were probably not > yet flushed to the stick. I suggest using a blocksize bigger than the default with dd. I tend to like bs=128k or bs=1M. > Should I have specified a (larger) block size? I assume that caching > makes that moot. > > [enter Science Mode] > > Apparatus: > > - desktop computer: I7-4770 processor, 24G RAM, Fedora 19 desktop with > some firefox windows/tabs open > > - source file is on an SSD. In fact everything is. > > - USB stick: Kingston 8GB DataTraveler 101. Not known for speed. > > Should I have used the direct I/O and a larger block size? > This command took only 20 minutes: > time sudo dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi oflag=direct bs=1M > Seems to make a significant difference. > > Is caching distorting things? > Right after the previous command, I did the following: > time sudo dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi bs=1M > and it took only 12 seconds! > But then I did: > time sync > and that took 31.5 minutes! > So caching significantly distorts timing. Certainly caching makes a difference. > Time for fresh experiments. > > su for these (to avoid possible sudo password delays). > > Eject USB drive & reinsert, clearing all caching: > eject /dev/sdi > # remove and re-insert USB drive > umount /dev/sdi1 > > Time the naive dd: > time dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi ; time eject /dev/sdi > real 38m7.526s > real 0m0.254s > Note: almost no time required for flushing the cache (eject must do > that). Quite surprising. > > Re-insert drive & unmount. > > Time the naive dd with a larger buffer: > time dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi bs=1M ; time eject /dev/sdi > real 31m54.402s > real 0m0.733s > Note: larger buffer made a difference even when going through buffer > cache. > > Re-insert drive & unmount. > > time the direct I/O version with a larger buffer: > time dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi oflag=direct bs=1M ; time eject /dev/sdi > real 20m7.544s > real 0m0.003s > Note: direct I/O made a significant difference. > > Re-insert drive & unmount. > > time the direct I/O version with a still larger buffer: > time dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi oflag=direct bs=16M ; time eject /dev/sdi > real 20m7.903s > real 0m0.004s > Note: the still larger buffer made no difference with direct I/O. > > I'm too lazy to try smaller sizes: I can easily spare 1M of RAM for > this command. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 21:37:07 2013 From: mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org (Molly Tournquist) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:37:07 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant Message-ID: <20131210213708.79730@gmx.com> > From: Renata Rocha > Sent: 12/09/13 02:47 PM > Again, I appreciate your contributions and I believe, together, we all > can help make this group more diverse. > From: Zbigniew Koziol > Sent: 12/10/13 01:48 PM > Hugh, please calm down. > > Sure, my English is not perfect. Though I lived in Canada for around 14 > years. I lived also in Russia for 5 years, and now if you care I am in > Poland, as assistant professor in physics ;) You may google for me if > you want. Some people of this group should remember me. I am still > officialy Canadian citizen. So I care. > > I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? Wow, unbelievable, the level of irony here is completely fucking epic! How about just shutting the fuck up for a day or two, you crazy, out of place, semiliterate tartar? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 21:43:43 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:43:43 -0500 Subject: war story: some USB flash memories are very slow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131210214343.GA25567@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 03:39:39PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > TL;DR: > > When dding to a raw USB flash memory, you can save perhaps half the > time by: > > 1) using a reasonably sized buffer. 1M seems enough. > 2) using direct I/O. > > Example: > dd if=Fedora-20-Beta-x86_64-DVD.iso of=/dev/sdi oflag=direct bs=16M && eject /dev/sdi What is the meaning of "direct I/O" here? This option gives me only 5% improvement, ie. 12MB/s vs 13MB/s. Shouldn't buffering give you better performance? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 21:55:14 2013 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:55:14 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: <20131210213708.79730-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20131210213708.79730@gmx.com> Message-ID: Hey Renata, thanks for talking a stand. We can talk about predatory or harassing behaviour all day long on this mailing list, but can still be ignoring it in the real life. Here Zbigniewhas shown how it can come out of nowhere and how really comically vile and unacceptable it is. Situation like these just don't happen often and I may have discounted or trivialized the consequences of such behaviour, sometimes not noticing it altogether -- which is wrong. I think this is a real problem with TLUG and we should address it. So he kind of drove home the point Renata was making, though I'm not sure if he realizes that. Alex. On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Molly Tournquist wrote: > > From: Renata Rocha > > Sent: 12/09/13 02:47 PM > > Again, I appreciate your contributions and I believe, together, we all > > can help make this group more diverse. > > From: Zbigniew Koziol > > Sent: 12/10/13 01:48 PM > > Hugh, please calm down. > > > > Sure, my English is not perfect. Though I lived in Canada for around 14 > > years. I lived also in Russia for 5 years, and now if you care I am in > > Poland, as assistant professor in physics ;) You may google for me if > > you want. Some people of this group should remember me. I am still > > officialy Canadian citizen. So I care. > > > > I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? > > Wow, unbelievable, the level of irony here is completely fucking epic! > > How about just shutting the fuck up for a day or two, you crazy, out of > place, semiliterate tartar? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 21:58:05 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:58:05 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 9 Dec 2013, Renata Rocha wrote: > >> I like TLUG a lot, and used to attend the meetings. But you haven't >> seen me at the meetings in a while, and probably won't see me anytime >> soon. > > > Hi Renata. That's really a shame. You were a regular attendee a few years > ago when I was going regularly. > >> Some men who attend TLUG and we know who they are have a >> predatory/harassing behaviour when in presence of women. If you attend >> TLUG, have seen this happen and have ignored this behaviour of your >> colleague, you are enabling violence against women to keep happening >> at the TLUG environment, and keeping women away from the group. > > > I haven't been to a meeting for a while as I'm out of the country for an > extended period. Could someone provide me with specific examples of these > predatory/harassing behaviours? I'm going to comment here, in the hopes of perhaps shutting down some of the more speculative parts of this. I have a bit more background on the matter, and don't want to comment on that publicly as trouble lies down that road. (I have learned things in confidence, and it would be wrong to betray that.) To summarize what seems reasonable to reveal: Renata commented that she was made to feel uncomfortable at some "predatory" action. There were things done and said that made her feel fearful. The precise "whats" I'm not going to touch here. I'll step back to the point that she *felt fearful.* Someone might respond with, "Oh, that wasn't what was meant. She's mistaken." That would be inappropriate; that would represent an assertion that her feelings were wrong, and that she's somehow "broken" to have felt that way. And would, in effect lend another layer of "violence" to the matter. Even if she be mistaken (and, knowing more details, I think her reaction was not unreasonable), it's a terrible thing to pretend to invalidate feelings. We're broadly "tech-heads" that like to figure out and solve the behaviours of our mechanical systems, but this situation isn't appropriate to that. I suggest that people attempt to 'chill' a bit; there are parts of the thread that are heading to nearly-Rob-Fordian levels of crazy, and that does not help one iota. This isn't a matter that is going to all be resolved today. - There's some conversations that need to take place, which actually *will* begin this evening. - The Board will definitely have to weigh in on the matter, and due to the disruptions of holiday schedules, the next scheduled meeting is in late January. Certainly "Rome isn't built in a day." A lot of reactions are coming out of imagined things and projections of one sort or another. Please stop that; it doesn't help. I'm quite certain that I don't yet know what is the appropriate action, but the whole set of "crazy" isn't it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 22:07:06 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 17:07:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: war story: some USB flash memories are very slow In-Reply-To: <20131210214343.GA25567-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131210214343.GA25567@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | > I dded the image to a USB stick. This seems to be the way you have to do | > it for this image. The dd took 36 minutes for 4.6 GB. That seems very | > slow to me. That's about 20k / second. | | By my calculations it is 2.1MB/second. Still not great. Oops. Bad arithmetic. Thanks. The top speed I got was closer to 4 MB/second. That seems to match this review for the 4G version of this stick: | From: William Park | What is the meaning of "direct I/O" here? This option gives me only 5% | improvement, ie. 12MB/s vs 13MB/s. Shouldn't buffering give you better | performance? Direct I/O is something like raw I/O in UNIX systems. Raw I/O meant your I/O operations went directly to the device, without going through the buffer cache. It also meant that there was no or little deblocking / blocking logic in between. Flash memories only pretend to have 512-byte blocks. If you write in larger chunks, I can imagine that you cut down on bad side-effects of this pretense. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 10 23:09:53 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 18:09:53 -0500 Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: <20131210213708.79730@gmx.com> Message-ID: Folks, I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm not convinced that we are reading Zb correctly. Oddly enough, as I read what I think he might be saying, he just might be trying to sympathise with Renata's situation, not dismiss it. Unfortunately, his retorts and explanations don't clear up anything. John. On 12/10/2013 04:55 PM, Alex Volkov wrote: > Hey Renata, thanks for talking a stand. > > We can talk about predatory or harassing behaviour all day long on > this mailing list, but can still be ignoring it in the real life. Here > Zbigniew has shown how it can come out of nowhere and how really > comically vile and unacceptable it is. > > Situation like these just don't happen often and I may have discounted > or trivialized the consequences of such behaviour, sometimes not > noticing it altogether -- which is wrong. I think this is a real > problem with TLUG and we should address it. > > So he kind of drove home the point Renata was making, though I'm not > sure if he realizes that. > > Alex. > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Molly Tournquist > > wrote: > > > From: Renata Rocha > > Sent: 12/09/13 02:47 PM > > Again, I appreciate your contributions and I believe, together, > we all > > can help make this group more diverse. > > From: Zbigniew Koziol > > Sent: 12/10/13 01:48 PM > > Hugh, please calm down. > > > > Sure, my English is not perfect. Though I lived in Canada for > around 14 > > years. I lived also in Russia for 5 years, and now if you care I > am in > > Poland, as assistant professor in physics ;) You may google for > me if > > you want. Some people of this group should remember me. I am still > > officialy Canadian citizen. So I care. > > > > I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? > > Wow, unbelievable, the level of irony here is completely fucking epic! > > How about just shutting the fuck up for a day or two, you crazy, > out of place, semiliterate tartar? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 11 06:25:51 2013 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (Bill Henderson) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 06:25:51 +0000 Subject: .APE files Message-ID: <52A8056F.80303@torfree.net> Assuming that Audacious and Amarok either hang up or crash out or otherwise refuse to perform, is there any alternative to using G Mplayer to play .APEs? Looking for something that displays the current item name within the ape file and GMplayer just keeps scrollinbg the ape filename notwithstanding it plays the, in my case operas, just fine. It would be nice not to have to keep the text contents file open and do the arithmetic based on running trimes to determine what is playing if I don't recognize the particular piece. Slack 14.0 64 bit -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 11 15:09:10 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 10:09:10 -0500 Subject: .APE files In-Reply-To: <52A8056F.80303-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org> References: <52A8056F.80303@torfree.net> Message-ID: <20131211150910.GQ20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 06:25:51AM +0000, Bill Henderson wrote: > Assuming that Audacious and Amarok either hang up or crash out or > otherwise refuse to perform, is there any alternative to using G > Mplayer to play .APEs? > > Looking for something that displays the current item name within the > ape file and GMplayer just keeps scrollinbg the ape filename > notwithstanding it plays the, in my case operas, just fine. > > It would be nice not to have to keep the text contents file open and > do the arithmetic based on running trimes to determine what is > playing if I don't recognize the particular piece. > > Slack 14.0 64 bit lennartsorensen at lennartsorensen:~/Download$ mplayer luckynight.ape MPlayer2 UNKNOWN (C) 2000-2012 MPlayer Team Cannot open file '/home/lennartsorensen/.mplayer2/input.conf': No such file or directory Failed to open /home/lennartsorensen/.mplayer2/input.conf. Cannot open file '/etc/mplayer2/input.conf': No such file or directory Failed to open /etc/mplayer2/input.conf. Playing luckynight.ape. Detected file format: Monkey's Audio (libavformat) [lavf] stream 0: audio (ape), -aid 0 Clip info: Track: 9 Year: 1995 Genre: Soundtrack Title: Lucky Night Artist: Jody Marie Gnant Album: Treasure Quest Soundtrack Comment: 1-minute song sample demonstrating Monkey's Audio .ape compression Load subtitles in . Selected audio codec: Monkey's Audio [libavcodec] AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 0.0 kbit/0.00% (ratio: 0->176400) AO: [pulse] 44100Hz 2ch s16le (2 bytes per sample) Video: no video Starting playback... A: 60.4 (01:00.3) of 60.4 (01:00.3) 2.5% [ape @ 0xaefcc0]packet size is not a multiple of 4. extra bytes at the end will be skipped. A: 61.8 (01:01.8) of 60.4 (01:00.3) 2.5% So mplayer at least plays the file for me. So does mplayer2, vlc, and totem. I couldn't think of any others to try. Now as for who handles the special tag info, no idea. I don't have any files to test with. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 11 15:48:28 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 10:48:28 -0500 Subject: .APE files In-Reply-To: <52A8056F.80303-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org> References: <52A8056F.80303@torfree.net> Message-ID: <52A8894C.9070206@utoronto.ca> On 13-12-11 01:25 AM, Bill Henderson wrote: > Assuming that Audacious and Amarok either hang up or crash out or > otherwise refuse to perform, is there any alternative to using G Mplayer > to play .APEs? > > Looking for something that displays the current item name within the ape > file and GMplayer just keeps scrollinbg the ape filename notwithstanding > it plays the, in my case operas, just fine. > > It would be nice not to have to keep the text contents file open and do > the arithmetic based on running trimes to determine what is playing if I > don't recognize the particular piece. I stopped trying to play APE files a long time ago and recode them all to FLAC. The compression savings of APE is not worth the hassle. Most players will support a .cue along with a .flac and will allow you to view tags and skip around based on the .cue contents. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 11 16:09:48 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 11:09:48 -0500 Subject: mini ITX board for router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52A88E4C.9020907@ve3syb.ca> On 13-12-08 02:43 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > This seems like a reasonable board to build a router out of: it has two 1G > ethernet ports: > > > CPU: Celeron 1037u (low power consumption, reasonable crunch) > No USB 3 :-( > > $95 + 11:28 shipping + tax Seems decent enough for the price and the features it has on it. The pictures show 3 USB ports, 4 USB ports, PCI slot, HDMI, micro(?) SD card slot, and even 3 SATA connections. Cases and power supplies can run close to another $100 depending on the style of case. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kirtijee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 11 16:25:46 2013 From: kirtijee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kirti Prakash) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 11:25:46 -0500 Subject: Call for SubmissionsPaticipatory Practices in Science and Art In-Reply-To: <1386700551.11510.6.camel@jimslaptop> References: <1386700551.11510.6.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: This is definitely interesting to check out. Would you know of some good links to check out open philosophies. I am wondering on how this applies to other aspects of life, business, law etc as well. Also, one obvious question. How can one be open and subtle at the same time? Kirti On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:35 PM, jim wrote: > I thought some people on the list may be interested in the theme of this > years Subtle Technologies Festival, The theme investigates a number of > interesting themes from open science to open source. More info here: > > http://subtletechnologies.com/festival/call-for-submissions/ > > Jim > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 11 19:37:28 2013 From: aruna.hewapathirane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aruna Hewapathirane) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 14:37:28 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Hour Toronto Message-ID: Hi Everybodeee..! I took a quick look at the Canadian Team/Members wiki ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Members) and I see we have twenty people based right here in Toronto. If your free and available this Saturday 14th please do consider dropping by Dufferin Mall for the Ubuntu Hour. Would be lovely to see all of you. This is a call to action for everyone listed below: AndreasJonsson2 - Toronto, ON - English/Svenska Andrew Hunter (Rexbron) - irc:rexbron - Toronto, ON - English Balleyne (Blaise Alleyne) - irc:balleyne - Toronto, ON - English Brent - irc:koi - Toronto, ON - English CarleeDolphinaura = irc:carlee - Toronto, ON - English DaveSullivan - irc:lophyte - Toronto, ON - English JamonCamisso - irc:jamonation - Toronto, ON - English KarynPopel - Toronto, ON - English/Espa?ol (un poquito) Kyle Brooks - irc: aneb - Toronto, ON and Peterborough, ON - English / ASL Kush Gill - Toronto, ON - English Leigh Honeywell - irc:hypatia - Toronto, ON - English/French/Spanish MarkoAndrejevic - irc:frt - Toronto, ON - English/Serbian MylesBraithwaite - irc:mylesbraithwaite - Toronto, ON - English QiHaoran - irc:Vanishing - Toronto, On - English Resu - irc:resu - Toronto, ON - English ShaneBennett - irc:shanebe - Toronto, ON - English/Japanese Si Blakey - irc:evilaim - Toronto, ON - English SimonRuggier - irc:Simon80 - Waterloo/Toronto, ON - English SteveHarris2 - irc:dl036 - Toronto, ON - English WilliamMain - - Toronto, ON - English Your friendly neighborhood linux-dude from the junction - Aruna -- *Aruna Hewapathirane* Consultant/Trainer Phone : 647-709-9269 Website: Open Source Solutions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 11 20:35:09 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 15:35:09 -0500 Subject: OT: Any active BSD groups or mailing lists in GTA? In-Reply-To: References: <20131210153112.GB2211@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20131211203509.GA30193@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:30:14AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > http://www.unixunanimous.org/ Hi Colin, Do you guys meet before the meeting? If so, where? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 11 20:46:13 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 15:46:13 -0500 Subject: OT: Any active BSD groups or mailing lists in GTA? In-Reply-To: <20131211203509.GA30193-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131210153112.GB2211@waltdnes.org> <20131211203509.GA30193@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: Typically we don't meet before the meeting, but we do go out for a meal after the meeting... Colin. On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:35 PM, William Park wrote: > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:30:14AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > > http://www.unixunanimous.org/ > > Hi Colin, > > Do you guys meet before the meeting? If so, where? > -- > William > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 12 00:17:56 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 19:17:56 -0500 Subject: home audio system Message-ID: hi folks, every year or so I seem to start this project and not finish it, but I am hoping to pull this one off in time for Xmas. I want to build a linux-powered home audio system, if possible organized around one or more rap-berry Pi/beaglebone/whatever low-power systems that I don't feel too bad about leaving on most of the time. I've been thinking about this a bit and as I see it,there are several parts to the system, and I'm not sure how many actual physical objects are required: (1) file server, that provides the actual audio files somehow (2) audio server, that turns them into some kind of an audio stream. should be able to handle mp3, m4a, ogg and flac, if poss. is probably the same object as (1), above (3) device that takes the audio stream and feeds it into 1 or more stereos (I think actually 2 minimum, one upstairs in bedroom, one downstairs in living room) (4) client device that controls what stream is being fed to the two stereos and optimally can also play a local stream. (3), above, potentially may also be a case of (4), but ideally there are also clients that run on at least Linux and Android (iOS would be nice too but isn't necessary and anyway my wife should switch!). (5) I would prefer to use as much Free software as possible, but will compromise to make something that my family can use easily. They enjoy XBMC, so I know it's possible to turn them from the Dark Side if the interface is good enough. Thanks as always, Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 12 00:29:39 2013 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 19:29:39 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> On 13-12-11 07:17 PM, Matt Price wrote: > hi folks, > > every year or so I seem to start this project and not finish it, but I > am hoping to pull this one off in time for Xmas. I want to build a > linux-powered home audio system, if possible organized around one or > more rap-berry Pi/beaglebone/whatever low-power systems that I don't > feel too bad about leaving on most of the time. > > I've been thinking about this a bit and as I see it,there are several > parts to the system, and I'm not sure how many actual physical objects > are required: > > (1) file server, that provides the actual audio files somehow > > (2) audio server, that turns them into some kind of an audio stream. > should be able to handle mp3, m4a, ogg and flac, if poss. is probably > the same object as (1), above > > (3) device that takes the audio stream and feeds it into 1 or more > stereos (I think actually 2 minimum, one upstairs in bedroom, one > downstairs in living room) > > (4) client device that controls what stream is being fed to the two > stereos and optimally can also play a local stream. (3), above, > potentially may also be a case of (4), but ideally there are also > clients that run on at least Linux and Android (iOS would be nice too > but isn't necessary and anyway my wife should switch!). > > (5) I would prefer to use as much Free software as possible, but will > compromise to make something that my family can use easily. They > enjoy XBMC, so I know it's possible to turn them from the Dark Side if > the interface is good enough. You need a server such as Mediatomb (open source) than runs on Linux, and a client box that can act as a DLNA client. I use a Panasonic Blu-ray disc player, Model DMP-BD89. You can also get a simpler box, such as a Western Digital Streaming Media Player, that uses open source code. They connect to your TV or Receiver. You just need a network connection between the Linux box and the streaming media player. Wi-fi should work fine. -- Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 12 05:19:00 2013 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 00:19:00 -0500 Subject: Call for SubmissionsPaticipatory Practices in Science and Art In-Reply-To: References: <1386700551.11510.6.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: <1386825540.20379.61.camel@jimslaptop> Hi Kirti, > This is definitely interesting to check out. Would you know of some > good links to check out open philosophies. I am wondering on how this > applies to other aspects of life, business, law etc as well. These are good questions and exactly why we are holding the event. I will have plenty of links organized for you in a few months. >Also, one obvious question. How can one be open and subtle at the same >time? Our festival has been going 17 years now and in the beginning we wanted to be sure we chose a title that wouldn't pin us down. Our thinking was that almost everything could be thought of as a technology even if in was subtle ways. Well 17 years later we are still going strong and investigating themes. Hope to see you at the event in the spring. Jim > > > Kirti > > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:35 PM, jim wrote: > I thought some people on the list may be interested in the > theme of this > years Subtle Technologies Festival, The theme investigates a > number of > interesting themes from open science to open source. More info > here: > > http://subtletechnologies.com/festival/call-for-submissions/ > > Jim > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 12 13:13:24 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 08:13:24 -0500 Subject: Connecting a 27 yr old Mac to the web Message-ID: How I introduced a 27-year-old computer to the web http://zite.to/1dserCb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 12 17:08:31 2013 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 12:08:31 -0500 Subject: Connecting a 27 yr old Mac to the web In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0f4f447ceeb3abd84a789b1002f72222.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Wow. That's impressive. > How I introduced a 27-year-old computer to the web http://zite.to/1dserCb > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 12 21:10:00 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:10:00 -0500 Subject: 2.4GHz working, but 5GHz not working -- strange dmesg error Message-ID: <20131212211000.GA17374@node1.localdomain> Hi, I want to ask TLUG before asking kernel list. I have Linksys WMP600N dual-band PCI adapter (rt2800pci) which used to work, but now 5GHz is not working. Router is ok, since my laptop can connect 5GHz. I tried 3.10 and 3.12 kernels (that I compiled myself) and other distros, and they are all having the same problem. When attempt is made to connect 5GHz, I get: ------------[ cut here ]------------ WARNING: CPU: 0 PID: 2126 at /home/kernel/linux-3.12/drivers/net/wireless/rt2x00/rt2x00config.c:201 rt2x00lib_config+0x293/0x2e0 [rt2x00lib]() Modules linked in: nls_iso8859_1 nls_cp437 vfat fat btrfs libcrc32c fuse vboxpci(O) vboxnetadp(O) vboxnetflt(O) vboxdrv(O) snd_seq_dummy snd_seq_oss snd_seq_midi_event snd_seq snd_seq_device snd_pcm_oss snd_mixer_oss ipv6 nf_conntrack_ipv4 nf_defrag_ipv4 xt_state nf_conntrack iptable_filter ip_tables x_tables dm_mod nvidia(PO) snd_hda_codec_hdmi acpi_cpufreq processor edac_core sp5100_tco arc4 rt2800pci rt2800lib rt2x00pci rt2x00mmio rt2x00lib mac80211 cfg80211 eeprom_93cx6 drm agpgart r8169 psmouse evdev mii thermal_sys mac_hid k10temp i2c_piix4 crc_ccitt i2c_core edac_mce_amd button hwmon rtc_cmos rfkill wmi serio_raw ohci_pci ohci_hcd kvm_amd kvm snd_hda_codec_realtek snd_hda_intel snd_hda_codec snd_hwdep snd_pcm snd_page_alloc snd_timer snd soundcore microcode loop CPU: 0 PID: 2126 Comm: wpa_supplicant Tainted: P O 3.12.3 #1 Hardware name: To be filled by O.E.M. To be filled by O.E.M./M5A97, BIOS 1605 10/25/2012 0000000000000009 ffff88007ff135d8 ffffffff814e59c1 0000000000000007 0000000000000000 ffff88007ff13618 ffffffff8103fff2 0000000000000038 ffff880416d05720 ffff880416d045c0 0000000000000042 0000000000000040 Call Trace: [] dump_stack+0x46/0x58 [] warn_slowpath_common+0x82/0xb0 [] warn_slowpath_null+0x15/0x20 [] rt2x00lib_config+0x293/0x2e0 [rt2x00lib] [] rt2x00mac_config+0x43/0x80 [rt2x00lib] [] ieee80211_hw_config+0x5d/0x2c0 [mac80211] [] ieee80211_vif_use_channel+0x3a3/0x440 [mac80211] [] ieee80211_prep_connection+0x138/0x820 [mac80211] [] ? ext4_ext_find_extent+0x220/0x2a0 [] ? printk+0x48/0x4a [] ieee80211_mgd_auth+0x2a1/0x310 [mac80211] [] ieee80211_auth+0x13/0x20 [mac80211] [] cfg80211_mlme_auth+0x173/0x1a0 [cfg80211] [] nl80211_authenticate+0x2cc/0x330 [cfg80211] [] genl_family_rcv_msg+0x17c/0x380 [] ? genl_family_rcv_msg+0x380/0x380 [] genl_rcv_msg+0x79/0xb0 [] netlink_rcv_skb+0xa9/0xc0 [] genl_rcv+0x27/0x40 [] netlink_unicast+0x10d/0x190 [] netlink_sendmsg+0x319/0x760 [] sock_sendmsg+0x64/0x80 [] ? verify_iovec+0x49/0xd0 [] ___sys_sendmsg.part.30+0x2a4/0x2c0 [] ? __do_page_fault+0x1ec/0x4f0 [] ? mntput+0x1f/0x30 [] ? __fput+0x16a/0x230 [] __sys_sendmsg+0x50/0x90 [] SyS_sendmsg+0x9/0x10 [] system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b ---[ end trace 9b341a9f9ef3f57c ]--- Is this a sign that the card dying? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 12 21:16:04 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:16:04 -0500 Subject: 2.4GHz working, but 5GHz not working -- strange dmesg error In-Reply-To: <16502_1386882632_rBCLAWqe018349_20131212211000.GA17374-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <16502_1386882632_rBCLAWqe018349_20131212211000.GA17374@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <52AA2794.7030409@utoronto.ca> On 12/12/13 04:10 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi, > > I want to ask TLUG before asking kernel list. I have Linksys WMP600N > dual-band PCI adapter (rt2800pci) which used to work, but now 5GHz is > not working. Router is ok, since my laptop can connect 5GHz. > > I tried 3.10 and 3.12 kernels (that I compiled myself) and other > distros, and they are all having the same problem. When attempt is made > to connect 5GHz, I get: > > CPU: 0 PID: 2126 Comm: wpa_supplicant Tainted: P O 3.12.3 #1 > Hardware name: To be filled by O.E.M. To be filled by O.E.M./M5A97, BIOS 1605 10/25/2012 Is this a sign that the card dying? Try using the card with a liveusb/cd or boot a kernel that you know worked in the past with it. Otherwise, give ndiswrapper a shot just to see if there's an issue with the firmware it's loading or the Linux driver. Just as a last test before you are relegated to 2.4GHz. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 00:58:52 2013 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:58:52 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Matt Price wrote: > hi folks, > > [ ... ] I want to build a > linux-powered home audio system, if possible organized around one or > more rap-berry Pi/beaglebone/whatever low-power systems that I don't > feel too bad about leaving on most of the time. I'm doing something like this and gave a presentation on it at KWLUG this year. [ ... ] > (1) file server, that provides the actual audio files somehow I use squeezeserver / LogitechMediaServer, because of some of the hardware I use. I suggest that you not use this unless you have to. :-) > (2) audio server, that turns them into some kind of an audio stream. > should be able to handle mp3, m4a, ogg and flac, if poss. is probably > the same object as (1), above This part seems to work well on LMS, so devices that can handle flac, get flac. If they can't, they get mp3 or whatever they need. In my case, yes, the file server is the media server / player controller. > (3) device that takes the audio stream and feeds it into 1 or more > stereos (I think actually 2 minimum, one upstairs in bedroom, one > downstairs in living room) I have the squeezbox devices that lead to my use of LMS. They connect RCA <-> RCA to the stereo, or mini-phono <-> mini-phono to powered speakers. I also use RaspberryPi mini-phono <-> mini-phono to powered speakers. Nice. :-) > (4) client device that controls what stream is being fed to the two > stereos and optimally can also play a local stream. (3), above, > potentially may also be a case of (4), but ideally there are also > clients that run on at least Linux and Android (iOS would be nice too > but isn't necessary and anyway my wife should switch!). I like this part of LMS. It can stream different audio to each player, or synchronize them. Yes, I have a client running on Linux laptop / desktops as well. Haven't tried Android client. Haven't tried iOS. What is iOS? :-) > (5) I would prefer to use as much Free software as possible, but will > compromise to make something that my family can use easily. They > enjoy XBMC, so I know it's possible to turn them from the Dark Side if > the interface is good enough. Gotcha. So, look at LMS if all else fails. Works for me at the moment. :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 01:11:04 2013 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:11:04 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And if I was starting again, I might start here, with a RaspberryPi as server as well. http://www.squeezeplug.eu/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bcopeland-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 01:55:59 2013 From: bcopeland-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Copeland) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:55:59 -0500 Subject: 2.4GHz working, but 5GHz not working -- strange dmesg error In-Reply-To: <20131212211000.GA17374-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131212211000.GA17374@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 4:10 PM, William Park wrote: > I tried 3.10 and 3.12 kernels (that I compiled myself) and other > distros, and they are all having the same problem. When attempt is made > to connect 5GHz, I get: I'm not too familiar with rt2x00 but I'd say your best bet is to ask on the linux wireless mailing list (linux-wireless-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA at public.gmane.org -- you don't have to subscribe to send). Stuff sent to lkml sometimes gets lost in the flood. > WARNING: CPU: 0 PID: 2126 at /home/kernel/linux-3.12/drivers/net/wireless/rt2x00/rt2x00config.c:201 rt2x00lib_config+0x293/0x2e0 [rt2x00lib]() > Is this a sign that the card dying? This warning seems to indicate that the configured channel is not supported by the device, but the driver tells the upper layers the supported channels, so it's more likely a kernel bug. And, code in this area was changed recent-ish when mac80211 was reworked for VHT channel support (e.g. git show 675a0b049). Since it used to work once upon a time, git bisect might be an option if you feel like tracking it down yourself. -- Bob Copeland %% www.bobcopeland.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 03:01:42 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:01:42 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52AA7896.6070907@sobac.com> It was a good presentation at KWLUG. Somebody get that man to repeat it for TLUG! --Bob. On 13-12-12 07:58 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Matt Price wrote: >> hi folks, >> >> [ ... ] I want to build a >> linux-powered home audio system, if possible organized around one or >> more rap-berry Pi/beaglebone/whatever low-power systems that I don't >> feel too bad about leaving on most of the time. > > I'm doing something like this and gave a presentation on it at KWLUG this year. > > [ ... ] >> (1) file server, that provides the actual audio files somehow > > I use squeezeserver / LogitechMediaServer, because of some of the > hardware I use. I suggest that you not use this unless you have to. > :-) > >> (2) audio server, that turns them into some kind of an audio stream. >> should be able to handle mp3, m4a, ogg and flac, if poss. is probably >> the same object as (1), above > > This part seems to work well on LMS, so devices that can handle flac, > get flac. If they can't, > they get mp3 or whatever they need. > > In my case, yes, the file server is the media server / player controller. > >> (3) device that takes the audio stream and feeds it into 1 or more >> stereos (I think actually 2 minimum, one upstairs in bedroom, one >> downstairs in living room) > > I have the squeezbox devices that lead to my use of LMS. They connect > RCA <-> RCA to the stereo, or mini-phono <-> mini-phono to powered > speakers. > > I also use RaspberryPi mini-phono <-> mini-phono to powered speakers. > Nice. :-) > >> (4) client device that controls what stream is being fed to the two >> stereos and optimally can also play a local stream. (3), above, >> potentially may also be a case of (4), but ideally there are also >> clients that run on at least Linux and Android (iOS would be nice too >> but isn't necessary and anyway my wife should switch!). > > I like this part of LMS. It can stream different audio to each > player, or synchronize them. Yes, I have a client running on Linux > laptop / desktops as well. Haven't tried Android client. Haven't > tried iOS. What is iOS? :-) > >> (5) I would prefer to use as much Free software as possible, but will >> compromise to make something that my family can use easily. They >> enjoy XBMC, so I know it's possible to turn them from the Dark Side if >> the interface is good enough. > > Gotcha. So, look at LMS if all else fails. Works for me at the moment. :-) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 03:21:26 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:21:26 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: <52AA7896.6070907-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52AA7896.6070907@sobac.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > It was a good presentation at KWLUG. Somebody get that man to repeat it > for TLUG! > > --Bob. > > I second that -- and if he'd like to give it just shortly before xmas, that would be perfect for me!! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 03:40:07 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:40:07 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Matt Price wrote: >> hi folks, >> >> [ ... ] I want to build a >> linux-powered home audio system, if possible organized around one or >> more rap-berry Pi/beaglebone/whatever low-power systems that I don't >> feel too bad about leaving on most of the time. > > I'm doing something like this and gave a presentation on it at KWLUG this year. > > [ ... ] >> (1) file server, that provides the actual audio files somehow > > I use squeezeserver / LogitechMediaServer, because of some of the > hardware I use. I suggest that you not use this unless you have to. > :-) In your next email you said you might start with a squeezeplug. So it;s the proprietary hardware you don't like, not the squeezebox server? > >> (2) audio server, that turns them into some kind of an audio stream. >> should be able to handle mp3, m4a, ogg and flac, if poss. is probably >> the same object as (1), above > > This part seems to work well on LMS, so devices that can handle flac, > get flac. If they can't, > they get mp3 or whatever they need. That's pretty cool (see below) > > In my case, yes, the file server is the media server / player controller. > >> (3) device that takes the audio stream and feeds it into 1 or more >> stereos (I think actually 2 minimum, one upstairs in bedroom, one >> downstairs in living room) > > I have the squeezbox devices that lead to my use of LMS. They connect > RCA <-> RCA to the stereo, or mini-phono <-> mini-phono to powered > speakers. > > I also use RaspberryPi mini-phono <-> mini-phono to powered speakers. > Nice. :-) Cool. For players I'm now imagining: (1) a Pi or similar device with a USB audio card, to connect to the main stereo (2) A little stndalone device that works maybe the way you describe, wit mini-phone to mini-phono > >> (4) client device that controls what stream is being fed to the two >> stereos and optimally can also play a local stream. (3), above, >> potentially may also be a case of (4), but ideally there are also >> clients that run on at least Linux and Android (iOS would be nice too >> but isn't necessary and anyway my wife should switch!). > > I like this part of LMS. It can stream different audio to each > player, or synchronize them. Yes, I have a client running on Linux > laptop / desktops as well. Haven't tried Android client. Haven't > tried iOS. What is iOS? :-) I've heard the android squeezebox client is nice. > >> (5) I would prefer to use as much Free software as possible, but will >> compromise to make something that my family can use easily. They >> enjoy XBMC, so I know it's possible to turn them from the Dark Side if >> the interface is good enough. > > Gotcha. So, look at LMS if all else fails. Works for me at the moment. :-) I've been messing around with MPD but, while I can play through the pulseaudio output on the laptop that hosts mpd, when I attempt to play over the network (using mpd's httpd output) I don't get any audio output at all (grrr). And it seems to me trying to set up a complex network -- where streams can be either separate or synced -- is rather difficult with mpd (I might be wrong about that, but I don't yet see how it would work!). Anyway so ar it's been un, I look forward to putting the actual hardware together! And would still welcoe more advice & guidance. Thanks so much Richard! Matt > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 03:40:51 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:40:51 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: <52A90373.6080504-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Stephen wrote: > On 13-12-11 07:17 PM, Matt Price wrote: >> >> hi folks, >> >> every year or so I seem to start this project and not finish it, but I >> am hoping to pull this one off in time for Xmas. I want to build a >> linux-powered home audio system, if possible organized around one or >> more rap-berry Pi/beaglebone/whatever low-power systems that I don't >> feel too bad about leaving on most of the time. >> >> I've been thinking about this a bit and as I see it,there are several >> parts to the system, and I'm not sure how many actual physical objects >> are required: >> >> (1) file server, that provides the actual audio files somehow >> >> (2) audio server, that turns them into some kind of an audio stream. >> should be able to handle mp3, m4a, ogg and flac, if poss. is probably >> the same object as (1), above >> >> (3) device that takes the audio stream and feeds it into 1 or more >> stereos (I think actually 2 minimum, one upstairs in bedroom, one >> downstairs in living room) >> >> (4) client device that controls what stream is being fed to the two >> stereos and optimally can also play a local stream. (3), above, >> potentially may also be a case of (4), but ideally there are also >> clients that run on at least Linux and Android (iOS would be nice too >> but isn't necessary and anyway my wife should switch!). >> >> (5) I would prefer to use as much Free software as possible, but will >> compromise to make something that my family can use easily. They >> enjoy XBMC, so I know it's possible to turn them from the Dark Side if >> the interface is good enough. > > You need a server such as Mediatomb (open source) than runs on Linux, and a > client box that can act as a DLNA client. I use a Panasonic Blu-ray disc > player, Model DMP-BD89. You can also get a simpler box, such as a Western > Digital Streaming Media Player, that uses open source code. They connect to > your TV or Receiver. > > You just need a network connection between the Linux box and the streaming > media player. Wi-fi should work fine. > I'll take a look at Mediagtomb -- I don't know muh about it yet... > -- Stephen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 12:18:06 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 07:18:06 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> Message-ID: <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> I've been doing something similar to Richard for the last four years. Here's my setup: * server: a SheevaPlug (could very easily be a Raspberry Pi). * software: Firefly/mt-daapd (this is now unmaintained code, and lots of people have complained about the code quality and produced a variety of half-assed forks, but it's been rock solid for me for a 30,000+ track collection). You want the r1696 nightly, or one of its Debian patched relations. The least half-assed fork is forked-daapd, which adds iPhone remote control but loses mt-daapd's SQL-based smart playlists. * hardware: ancient Roku SoundBridges. If you can find these used, they're pretty good. They crop up on eBay quite a lot because Roku shipped crappy power supplies that couldn't drive the big VFD displays on the SoundBridge. A new decent PSU can be had for about $10. They do wireless (sorta; the very latest supported G) and wired networking, and have phono, mini-stereo and TOSLINK digital outputs. mt-daapd and its variants pretend to be an iTunes shared library. There is lots of software that supports this (curiously, the frequently least compatible is ? iTunes. Hmm). I have had little success with DLNA; I don't think devices expect to get 35,000 tracks come at them. My DVD player goes to sleep before it has parsed the whole stream. Transcoding with a Raspberry Pi will be difficult. You should *just* be able to do a single stream from flac ? mp3 in real time. Last time I benchmarked it, lame -V2 encoded at 1.3? real time on the Pi. There are no really good fixed-point MP3 encoders, so lightweight ARM chips really struggle. Many NAS boxes have mt-daapd built in. My Synology one is slowly becoming my main music server, as its dual-core PPC has a little more grunt than an ARM, and it serves tunes just fine. So you may not need a separate server. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 14:13:10 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 09:13:10 -0500 Subject: new kind of cheap SSD -- sata/mini-usb Message-ID: <20131213141310.GA16459@node1.localdomain> I just noticed a cheap SSD which has both SATA (3Gbps) and mini-USB (2.0) interfaces. It may be an old model, but it's cheaper than regular USB flash drive. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 16:26:41 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 11:26:41 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: <52AAFAFE.2050708-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20131213162641.GR20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 07:18:06AM -0500, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I've been doing something similar to Richard for the last four years. > Here's my setup: > > * server: a SheevaPlug (could very easily be a Raspberry Pi). > > * software: Firefly/mt-daapd (this is now unmaintained code, and lots of > people have complained about the code quality and produced a variety of > half-assed forks, but it's been rock solid for me for a 30,000+ track > collection). You want the r1696 nightly, or one of its Debian patched > relations. The least half-assed fork is forked-daapd, which adds iPhone > remote control but loses mt-daapd's SQL-based smart playlists. > > * hardware: ancient Roku SoundBridges. If you can find these used, > they're pretty good. They crop up on eBay quite a lot because Roku > shipped crappy power supplies that couldn't drive the big VFD displays > on the SoundBridge. A new decent PSU can be had for about $10. They do > wireless (sorta; the very latest supported G) and wired networking, and > have phono, mini-stereo and TOSLINK digital outputs. > > mt-daapd and its variants pretend to be an iTunes shared library. There > is lots of software that supports this (curiously, the frequently least > compatible is ? iTunes. Hmm). I have had little success with DLNA; I > don't think devices expect to get 35,000 tracks come at them. My DVD > player goes to sleep before it has parsed the whole stream. > > Transcoding with a Raspberry Pi will be difficult. You should *just* be > able to do a single stream from flac ? mp3 in real time. Last time I > benchmarked it, lame -V2 encoded at 1.3? real time on the Pi. There are > no really good fixed-point MP3 encoders, so lightweight ARM chips really > struggle. But the pi has hardware floating point. Is it that bad or are you running the wrong kind of arm linux on it? > Many NAS boxes have mt-daapd built in. My Synology one is slowly > becoming my main music server, as its dual-core PPC has a little more > grunt than an ARM, and it serves tunes just fine. So you may not need a > separate server. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 16:35:33 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 11:35:33 -0500 Subject: 2.4GHz working, but 5GHz not working -- strange dmesg error In-Reply-To: <20131212211000.GA17374-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131212211000.GA17374@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20131213163533.GS20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 04:10:00PM -0500, William Park wrote: > Hi, > > I want to ask TLUG before asking kernel list. I have Linksys WMP600N > dual-band PCI adapter (rt2800pci) which used to work, but now 5GHz is > not working. Router is ok, since my laptop can connect 5GHz. > > I tried 3.10 and 3.12 kernels (that I compiled myself) and other > distros, and they are all having the same problem. When attempt is made > to connect 5GHz, I get: > > ------------[ cut here ]------------ > WARNING: CPU: 0 PID: 2126 at /home/kernel/linux-3.12/drivers/net/wireless/rt2x00/rt2x00config.c:201 rt2x00lib_config+0x293/0x2e0 [rt2x00lib]() > Modules linked in: nls_iso8859_1 nls_cp437 vfat fat btrfs libcrc32c fuse vboxpci(O) vboxnetadp(O) vboxnetflt(O) vboxdrv(O) snd_seq_dummy snd_seq_oss snd_seq_midi_event snd_seq snd_seq_device snd_pcm_oss snd_mixer_oss ipv6 nf_conntrack_ipv4 nf_defrag_ipv4 xt_state nf_conntrack iptable_filter ip_tables x_tables dm_mod nvidia(PO) snd_hda_codec_hdmi acpi_cpufreq processor edac_core sp5100_tco arc4 rt2800pci rt2800lib rt2x00pci rt2x00mmio rt2x00lib mac80211 cfg80211 eeprom_93cx6 drm agpgart r8169 psmouse evdev mii thermal_sys mac_hid k10temp i2c_piix4 crc_ccitt i2c_core edac_mce_amd button hwmon rtc_cmos rfkill wmi serio_raw ohci_pci ohci_hcd kvm_amd kvm snd_hda_codec_realtek snd_hda_intel snd_hda_codec snd_hwdep snd_pcm snd_page_alloc snd_timer snd soundcore microcode loop > CPU: 0 PID: 2126 Comm: wpa_supplicant Tainted: P O 3.12.3 #1 > Hardware name: To be filled by O.E.M. To be filled by O.E.M./M5A97, BIOS 1605 10/25/2012 > 0000000000000009 ffff88007ff135d8 ffffffff814e59c1 0000000000000007 > 0000000000000000 ffff88007ff13618 ffffffff8103fff2 0000000000000038 > ffff880416d05720 ffff880416d045c0 0000000000000042 0000000000000040 > Call Trace: > [] dump_stack+0x46/0x58 > [] warn_slowpath_common+0x82/0xb0 > [] warn_slowpath_null+0x15/0x20 > [] rt2x00lib_config+0x293/0x2e0 [rt2x00lib] > [] rt2x00mac_config+0x43/0x80 [rt2x00lib] > [] ieee80211_hw_config+0x5d/0x2c0 [mac80211] > [] ieee80211_vif_use_channel+0x3a3/0x440 [mac80211] > [] ieee80211_prep_connection+0x138/0x820 [mac80211] > [] ? ext4_ext_find_extent+0x220/0x2a0 > [] ? printk+0x48/0x4a > [] ieee80211_mgd_auth+0x2a1/0x310 [mac80211] > [] ieee80211_auth+0x13/0x20 [mac80211] > [] cfg80211_mlme_auth+0x173/0x1a0 [cfg80211] > [] nl80211_authenticate+0x2cc/0x330 [cfg80211] > [] genl_family_rcv_msg+0x17c/0x380 > [] ? genl_family_rcv_msg+0x380/0x380 > [] genl_rcv_msg+0x79/0xb0 > [] netlink_rcv_skb+0xa9/0xc0 > [] genl_rcv+0x27/0x40 > [] netlink_unicast+0x10d/0x190 > [] netlink_sendmsg+0x319/0x760 > [] sock_sendmsg+0x64/0x80 > [] ? verify_iovec+0x49/0xd0 > [] ___sys_sendmsg.part.30+0x2a4/0x2c0 > [] ? __do_page_fault+0x1ec/0x4f0 > [] ? mntput+0x1f/0x30 > [] ? __fput+0x16a/0x230 > [] __sys_sendmsg+0x50/0x90 > [] SyS_sendmsg+0x9/0x10 > [] system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b > ---[ end trace 9b341a9f9ef3f57c ]--- > > Is this a sign that the card dying? Not necesarily. Is it the same card as this: 07:01.0 Network controller: Ralink corp. RT2800 802.11n PCI Subsystem: Linksys Device 0067 Flags: bus master, slow devsel, latency 64, IRQ 17 Memory at fbef0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3 Kernel driver in use: rt2800pci # nm-tool NetworkManager Tool State: connected (global) - Device: wlan1 [auto wifi5] -------------------------------------------------- Type: 802.11 WiFi Driver: rt2800pci State: connected Default: yes HW Address: 00:25:9C:B9:0C:18 Capabilities: Speed: 120 Mb/s Wireless Properties WEP Encryption: yes WPA Encryption: yes WPA2 Encryption: yes Wireless Access Points (* = current AP) *wifi5: Infra, 00:24:01:E7:EA:E7, Freq 5240 MHz, Rate 54 Mb/s, Strength 54 WPA2 MY NETWORK: Infra, 00:13:46:D7:17:C6, Freq 2437 MHz, Rate 54 Mb/s, Strength 40 WEP BRIVICON INC: Infra, 00:17:9A:29:80:38, Freq 2437 MHz, Rate 54 Mb/s, Strength 47 WEP landingGuest: Infra, 2A:CF:DA:B8:C6:D1, Freq 5765 MHz, Rate 54 Mb/s, Strength 27 WPA WPA2 landingStrip: Infra, 28:CF:DA:B8:C6:CF, Freq 2442 MHz, Rate 54 Mb/s, Strength 54 WPA2 Donaghy: Infra, BC:14:01:2A:CA:58, Freq 2412 MHz, Rate 54 Mb/s, Strength 47 WPA2 wifi24: Infra, 00:24:01:E7:EA:E5, Freq 2417 MHz, Rate 54 Mb/s, Strength 70 WPA2 HP-Print-67-LaserJet 1102: Infra, C0:18:85:8D:50:67, Freq 2437 MHz, Rate 54 Mb/s, Strength 27 linksys: Infra, 00:0F:66:8A:BE:6B, Freq 2437 MHz, Rate 54 Mb/s, Strength 44 WPA IPv4 Settings: Address: 192.168.1.101 Prefix: 24 (255.255.255.0) Gateway: 192.168.1.1 DNS: 192.168.1.1 I remember it took a long time to clue in to needing the package 'wireless-regdb' to configure it to know which country I was in and hence which frequencies were allowed to be tried. Once I did install that and tell it I was in Canada, then 5GHz just worked. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 21:14:23 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:14:23 -0500 Subject: 2.4GHz working, but 5GHz not working -- strange dmesg error In-Reply-To: <20131213163533.GS20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131212211000.GA17374@node1.localdomain> <20131213163533.GS20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131213211423.GA25897@node1.localdomain> On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:35:33AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 04:10:00PM -0500, William Park wrote: > > Is this a sign that the card dying? > > Not necesarily. > > Is it the same card as this: > > 07:01.0 Network controller: Ralink corp. RT2800 802.11n PCI > Subsystem: Linksys Device 0067 > Flags: bus master, slow devsel, latency 64, IRQ 17 > Memory at fbef0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K] > Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3 > Kernel driver in use: rt2800pci Yes. > I remember it took a long time to clue in to needing the package > 'wireless-regdb' to configure it to know which country I was in and > hence which frequencies were allowed to be tried. Once I did install > that and tell it I was in Canada, then 5GHz just worked. I'll try it. Thing is, it used to work. Because NetworkManager automatically connects to 2.4GHz if 5GHz fails, I didn't notice this until recently. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 21:46:44 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:46:44 -0500 Subject: 2.4GHz working, but 5GHz not working -- strange dmesg error In-Reply-To: <20131213163533.GS20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131212211000.GA17374@node1.localdomain> <20131213163533.GS20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I remember it took a long time to clue in to needing the package > 'wireless-regdb' to configure it to know which country I was in and > hence which frequencies were allowed to be tried. Once I did install > that and tell it I was in Canada, then 5GHz just worked. How did you set the country? I have wireless-regdb installed on my system but not sure how to tell it I'm in Canada. When I run 'crda' it says "COUNTRY environment variable not set", but "env COUNTRY=CA" doesn't seem to make a difference. "iw reg get" tells me "country US". I've never had my wireless adapter connect to my router at 5GHz (in Ubuntu) and never really knew why. However, 5GHz is allowed in the US so I'm guessing there's probably something else I'm missing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 22:28:18 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:28:18 -0500 Subject: 2.4GHz working, but 5GHz not working -- strange dmesg error In-Reply-To: References: <20131212211000.GA17374@node1.localdomain> <20131213163533.GS20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131213222818.GT20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 04:46:44PM -0500, Tim Tisdall wrote: > On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > I remember it took a long time to clue in to needing the package > > 'wireless-regdb' to configure it to know which country I was in and > > hence which frequencies were allowed to be tried. Once I did install > > that and tell it I was in Canada, then 5GHz just worked. > > How did you set the country? I have wireless-regdb installed on my > system but not sure how to tell it I'm in Canada. When I run 'crda' > it says "COUNTRY environment variable not set", but "env COUNTRY=CA" > doesn't seem to make a difference. "iw reg get" tells me "country > US". > > I've never had my wireless adapter connect to my router at 5GHz (in > Ubuntu) and never really knew why. However, 5GHz is allowed in the US > so I'm guessing there's probably something else I'm missing. Hmm. I am trying to remember where I put that. If I run 'iw reg get' it says: # iw reg get country CA: (2402 - 2472 @ 40), (3, 27) (5170 - 5250 @ 40), (3, 17) (5250 - 5330 @ 40), (3, 20), DFS (5490 - 5710 @ 40), (3, 20), DFS (5735 - 5835 @ 40), (3, 30) So it gets set somewhere. Hmm. It looks like the package 'crda' has something to do with it. I am not actually sure how I made it work and if it still works the same. I wonder if it somehow detects the information from the AP in the area, although I have a hard time believing that, -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 13 23:47:43 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 18:47:43 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: <20131213162641.GR20886-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> <20131213162641.GR20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <52AB9C9F.8080501@gmail.com> On 13-12-13 11:26 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > But the pi has hardware floating point. Is it that bad or are you > running the wrong kind of arm linux on it? I just re-ran a test using lame 3.99.5 on two machines: * encoding a wav file to mp3 using 'lame -V2' on a Raspberry Pi (Raspbian armv6l) encoded at 2.2? real time * the same file on my i7 laptop: 51? real time. And that was only using one of its cores. While it would be nice to have the GPU as a general media encoder, we're not there yet. If you must encode mp3s quickly on a Raspberry Pi, there are a couple of options: * Comprec - http://unimut.fsk.uni-heidelberg.de/demi/comprec/index.html This uses ARM assembly language. The code is a little fiddly to compile, but can encode to a 128 kbit/s mp3 in ~ 6? real time * Shine - https://github.com/savonet/shine This is actually being maintained, and is portable between architectures. Not quite as fast as comprec, at 2.7? real time. It's screamingly fast on x86_64, btw. Please note that both of these are based on the old '8hz' mp3 encoder, which was a fairly literal interpretation of the original Fraunhofer code. They only start producing okay sounding files at high bitrates. If you need to decode mp3s quickly, MAD is pretty good: http://www.underbit.com/products/mad cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Dec 14 02:21:19 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 21:21:19 -0500 Subject: 2.4GHz working, but 5GHz not working -- strange dmesg error In-Reply-To: References: <20131212211000.GA17374@node1.localdomain> <20131213163533.GS20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131214022118.GA2752@node1.localdomain> On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 04:46:44PM -0500, Tim Tisdall wrote: > On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > I remember it took a long time to clue in to needing the package > > 'wireless-regdb' to configure it to know which country I was in and > > hence which frequencies were allowed to be tried. Once I did install > > that and tell it I was in Canada, then 5GHz just worked. > > How did you set the country? I have wireless-regdb installed on my > system but not sure how to tell it I'm in Canada. When I run 'crda' > it says "COUNTRY environment variable not set", but "env COUNTRY=CA" > doesn't seem to make a difference. "iw reg get" tells me "country > US". I tried iw reg set CA and it does set the country to CA. But, doesn't make difference with 5GHz, and 2.4GHz connects fine without it. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Dec 14 05:15:50 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 00:15:50 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: <52AAFAFE.2050708-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I've been doing something similar to Richard for the last four years. > Here's my setup: > > * server: a SheevaPlug (could very easily be a Raspberry Pi). > > * software: Firefly/mt-daapd (this is now unmaintained code, and lots of > people have complained about the code quality and produced a variety of > half-assed forks, but it's been rock solid for me for a 30,000+ track > collection). You want the r1696 nightly, or one of its Debian patched > relations. The least half-assed fork is forked-daapd, which adds iPhone > remote control but loses mt-daapd's SQL-based smart playlists. > huh. I hadn't heard of this at all. And it looks like forked-daapd will run on openwrt, so maybe I could just use our router as the main media server (wow!). Has the disadvantage of being itunes-centric. But as I understand it rhythmbox can manage daap, and there's an android app or two I see > * hardware: ancient Roku SoundBridges. If you can find these used, > they're pretty good. They crop up on eBay quite a lot because Roku > shipped crappy power supplies that couldn't drive the big VFD displays > on the SoundBridge. A new decent PSU can be had for about $10. They do > wireless (sorta; the very latest supported G) and wired networking, and > have phono, mini-stereo and TOSLINK digital outputs. > interesting. > mt-daapd and its variants pretend to be an iTunes shared library. There > is lots of software that supports this (curiously, the frequently least > compatible is ? iTunes. Hmm). I have had little success with DLNA; I > don't think devices expect to get 35,000 tracks come at them. My DVD > player goes to sleep before it has parsed the whole stream. > > Transcoding with a Raspberry Pi will be difficult. You should *just* be > able to do a single stream from flac ? mp3 in real time. Last time I > benchmarked it, lame -V2 encoded at 1.3? real time on the Pi. There are > no really good fixed-point MP3 encoders, so lightweight ARM chips really > struggle. ok, that's good to know, thanks. > > Many NAS boxes have mt-daapd built in. My Synology one is slowly > becoming my main music server, as its dual-core PPC has a little more > grunt than an ARM, and it serves tunes just fine. So you may not need a > separate server. ok, neat, thanks > > cheers, > Stewart > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Dec 14 07:12:26 2013 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 23:12:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: Women and TLUG - a personal rant In-Reply-To: References: <20131210213708.79730@gmx.com> Message-ID: <1387005146.83073.YahooMailNeo@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> John Moniz To tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote Dec 10 at 4:10 PM ---------------------- > Folks, I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm not convinced that we are reading Zb correctly. Oddly enough, as I read what > I think he might be saying, he just might be trying to sympathise with Renata's situation, not dismiss it. Unfortunately, his > retorts and explanations don't clear up anything. > > John. I think so too. EK On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 4:10:37 PM, John Moniz wrote: Folks, I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm not convinced that we are reading Zb correctly. Oddly enough, as I read what I think he might be saying, he just might be trying to sympathise with Renata's situation, not dismiss it. Unfortunately, his retorts and explanations don't clear up anything. > >John. > > >On 12/10/2013 04:55 PM, Alex Volkov wrote: > >Hey Renata, thanks for talking a stand. >> >> >>We can talk about predatory or harassing behaviour all day long on this mailing list, but can still be ignoring it in the real life. Here Zbigniew has shown how it can come out of nowhere and how really comically vile and unacceptable it is. >> >>Situation like these just don't happen often and I may have discounted or trivialized the consequences of such behaviour, sometimes not noticing it altogether -- which is wrong. I think this is a real problem with TLUG and we should address it. >> >> >>So he kind of drove home the point Renata was making, though I'm not sure if he realizes that. >> >> >>Alex. >> >> >> >>On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Molly Tournquist wrote: >> >>> From: Renata Rocha >>>> Sent: 12/09/13 02:47 PM >>> >>>> Again, I appreciate your contributions and I believe, together, we all >>>> can help make this group more diverse. >>> > From: Zbigniew Koziol >>>> Sent: 12/10/13 01:48 PM >>> >>>> Hugh, please calm down. >>>> >>>> Sure, my English is not perfect. Though I lived in Canada for around 14 >>>> years. I lived also in Russia for 5 years, and now if you care I am in >>>> Poland, as assistant professor in physics ;) You may google for me if >>>> you want. Some people of this group should remember me. I am still >>>> officialy Canadian citizen. So I care. >>>> >>>> I can not bare silly, sick nonsense. I will not. Simple? >>> >>> Wow, unbelievable, the level of irony here is completely fucking epic! >>> >>>How about just shutting the fuck up for a day or two, you crazy, out of place, semiliterate tartar? >>> >> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Dec 14 13:20:59 2013 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 08:20:59 -0500 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <20100512061517.GB898-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <52AC5B3B.27307.1039B520@sciguy.vex.net> Ethernet should work up to 100 meters. To be sure, get a switch to connect halfway in between. At one time, I would have said to get a hub, but they don't make hubs anymore :-( Paul King On 12 May 2010 at 2:15, Walter Dnes wrote: > Before anyone asks... wireless is not an option. > > Problem 1) I am currently setting up and testing my HDHomerun dual tuner > using my netbook. I occasionally need to check something on Google or > the support forum for the tuner. That requires connecting to my ADSL > router modem in another room. Wireless works fine when I get home from > work. The wireless router blasts through a solid concrete wall, and only > 4 or 5 access points show up on a scan. Later... that very same > evening... all my neighbours in the condo fire up their wireless > systems, 16 or more access points show up on a scan, and there are no > free channels, and my connection drops due to interference. > > Problem 2) I'll eventually set up a desktop to control the HDHomerun, > and record movies, etc. A 1920x1080 high-definition TV signal uses close > to 9 gigabytes per hour for recording OUCH!!! If I want to move > recordings over to the desktop PC in my computer den, or watch something > live on my PC 24" LCD monitor, a flakey wireless connection is not going > to be usable. > > So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. > Will ethernet work over that? > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5107 (20100512) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bcopeland-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Dec 14 13:28:54 2013 From: bcopeland-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Copeland) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 08:28:54 -0500 Subject: 2.4GHz working, but 5GHz not working -- strange dmesg error In-Reply-To: <20131214022118.GA2752-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131212211000.GA17374@node1.localdomain> <20131213163533.GS20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131214022118.GA2752@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: I'm not sure if my earlier email(s) made it to the list -- the gtalug archive is a few days old. So at the risk of repeating myself, one factor to consider is that your regdomain is also constrained by your device in some cases. I do not know if this is true for rt2x00, but it is for at least Atheros and Intel. You can see what your device allows with 'iw phyX info' Also, the warning previously posted looks like a kernel bug of some sort. More reading: http://wireless.kernel.org/en/developers/Regulatory/CRDA http://wireless.kernel.org/en/developers/Regulatory/processing_rules On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 9:21 PM, William Park wrote: > On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 04:46:44PM -0500, Tim Tisdall wrote: >> On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Lennart Sorensen >> wrote: >> > I remember it took a long time to clue in to needing the package >> > 'wireless-regdb' to configure it to know which country I was in and >> > hence which frequencies were allowed to be tried. Once I did install >> > that and tell it I was in Canada, then 5GHz just worked. >> >> How did you set the country? I have wireless-regdb installed on my >> system but not sure how to tell it I'm in Canada. When I run 'crda' >> it says "COUNTRY environment variable not set", but "env COUNTRY=CA" >> doesn't seem to make a difference. "iw reg get" tells me "country >> US". > > I tried > iw reg set CA > and it does set the country to CA. But, doesn't make difference with > 5GHz, and 2.4GHz connects fine without it. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Bob Copeland %% www.bobcopeland.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Dec 14 22:11:43 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 17:11:43 -0500 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <52AC5B3B.27307.1039B520-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <52AC5B3B.27307.1039B520@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <52ACD79F.6050709@rogers.com> Either someone's clock is way off or you replied to a really old message. However, as you say, 60' is no problem for Ethernet. Paul King wrote: > Ethernet should work up to 100 meters. To be sure, get a switch to connect > halfway in between. At one time, I would have said to get a hub, but they don't > make hubs anymore :-( > > Paul King > > On 12 May 2010 at 2:15, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> > Before anyone asks... wireless is not an option. >> > >> > Problem 1) I am currently setting up and testing my HDHomerun dual tuner >> > using my netbook. I occasionally need to check something on Google or >> > the support forum for the tuner. That requires connecting to my ADSL >> > router modem in another room. Wireless works fine when I get home from >> > work. The wireless router blasts through a solid concrete wall, and only >> > 4 or 5 access points show up on a scan. Later... that very same >> > evening... all my neighbours in the condo fire up their wireless >> > systems, 16 or more access points show up on a scan, and there are no >> > free channels, and my connection drops due to interference. >> > >> > Problem 2) I'll eventually set up a desktop to control the HDHomerun, >> > and record movies, etc. A 1920x1080 high-definition TV signal uses close >> > to 9 gigabytes per hour for recording OUCH!!! If I want to move >> > recordings over to the desktop PC in my computer den, or watch something >> > live on my PC 24" LCD monitor, a flakey wireless connection is not going >> > to be usable. >> > >> > So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. >> > Will ethernet work over that? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 15 05:21:49 2013 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 21:21:49 -0800 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <52ACD79F.6050709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <52AC5B3B.27307.1039B520@sciguy.vex.net> <52ACD79F.6050709@rogers.com> Message-ID: Yeah, the datestamps I see for those are all 2010, except these last two.... Blast from the networking past? On Dec 14, 2013 2:15 PM, "James Knott" wrote: > Either someone's clock is way off or you replied to a really old > message. However, as you say, 60' is no problem for Ethernet. > > Paul King wrote: > > Ethernet should work up to 100 meters. To be sure, get a switch to > connect > > halfway in between. At one time, I would have said to get a hub, but > they don't > > make hubs anymore :-( > > > > Paul King > > > > On 12 May 2010 at 2:15, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > >> > Before anyone asks... wireless is not an option. > >> > > >> > Problem 1) I am currently setting up and testing my HDHomerun dual > tuner > >> > using my netbook. I occasionally need to check something on Google or > >> > the support forum for the tuner. That requires connecting to my ADSL > >> > router modem in another room. Wireless works fine when I get home > from > >> > work. The wireless router blasts through a solid concrete wall, and > only > >> > 4 or 5 access points show up on a scan. Later... that very same > >> > evening... all my neighbours in the condo fire up their wireless > >> > systems, 16 or more access points show up on a scan, and there are no > >> > free channels, and my connection drops due to interference. > >> > > >> > Problem 2) I'll eventually set up a desktop to control the HDHomerun, > >> > and record movies, etc. A 1920x1080 high-definition TV signal uses > close > >> > to 9 gigabytes per hour for recording OUCH!!! If I want to move > >> > recordings over to the desktop PC in my computer den, or watch > something > >> > live on my PC 24" LCD monitor, a flakey wireless connection is not > going > >> > to be usable. > >> > > >> > So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. > >> > Will ethernet work over that? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 15 10:15:02 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 05:15:02 -0500 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <52ACD79F.6050709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <52AC5B3B.27307.1039B520@sciguy.vex.net> <52ACD79F.6050709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20131215101502.GA19476@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 05:11:43PM -0500, James Knott wrote > Either someone's clock is way off or you replied to a really old > message. However, as you say, 60' is no problem for Ethernet. Yup, it works... and has been working for over 3 years -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 15 13:11:53 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 08:11:53 -0500 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <52AC5B3B.27307.1039B520@sciguy.vex.net> <52ACD79F.6050709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <52ADAA99.9050805@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Yeah, the datestamps I see for those are all 2010, except these last > two.... > Blast from the networking past? Mebe someone has a *REALLY* slow Internet connection. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 15 14:09:28 2013 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 09:09:28 -0500 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <52ADAA99.9050805-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <52AC5B3B.27307.1039B520@sciguy.vex.net> <52ACD79F.6050709@rogers.com> <52ADAA99.9050805@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1387116568.3199.0.camel@tecumseth3> On Sun, 2013-12-15 at 08:11 -0500, James Knott wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: > > Yeah, the datestamps I see for those are all 2010, except these last > > two.... > > Blast from the networking past? > > Mebe someone has a *REALLY* slow Internet connection. ;-) obSkiffyStory: Vernor Vinge, _True Names_ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 15 14:13:13 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 12:13:13 -0200 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <1387116568.3199.0.camel@tecumseth3> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <52AC5B3B.27307.1039B520@sciguy.vex.net> <52ACD79F.6050709@rogers.com> <52ADAA99.9050805@rogers.com> <1387116568.3199.0.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: Maybe someone is using Voyager as the mail server? On Dec 15, 2013 12:10 PM, "Mel Wilson" wrote: > On Sun, 2013-12-15 at 08:11 -0500, James Knott wrote: > > Tyler Aviss wrote: > > > Yeah, the datestamps I see for those are all 2010, except these last > > > two.... > > > Blast from the networking past? > > > > Mebe someone has a *REALLY* slow Internet connection. ;-) > > obSkiffyStory: Vernor Vinge, _True Names_ > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 15 18:27:08 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 13:27:08 -0500 Subject: 2.4GHz working, but 5GHz not working -- strange dmesg error In-Reply-To: References: <20131212211000.GA17374@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20131215182708.GA28555@node1.localdomain> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 08:55:59PM -0500, Bob Copeland wrote: > This warning seems to indicate that the configured channel is not > supported by the device, but the driver tells the upper layers the > supported channels, so it's more likely a kernel bug. And, code in > this area was changed recent-ish when mac80211 was reworked for VHT > channel support (e.g. git show 675a0b049). Since it used to work once > upon a time, git bisect might be an option if you feel like tracking > it down yourself. After much trials, I'm back on 5GHz. It seems that my driver doesn't like certain combinations of channel and its width. Eg. - channel=36 and width=20/40 work -- I now remember this was what worked before. - channel=44 doesn't work at all -- router recently changed to this channel. The setting on the router was "auto" channel and "20/40" width. - channel=165 doesn't work at all. - most other channels (didn't try all) will work with width=40 only. So, I'm now using channel=161 and width=40. I choose 161 because it has stronger transmit power (21dbm vs 14dbm). There are 2 walls, 1 mirror, and 1 metal case in between, so signal is bouncing all over the place. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 15 19:02:25 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 14:02:25 -0500 Subject: "shared" method == poor man's "client bridge" Message-ID: <20131215190225.GA28602@node1.localdomain> Hi all, just FYI... Summary: -------- If you want to connect devices to your ethernet port and use your wireless card for network connection, then a cheap/easy solution is "Shared" method on your Network Configuration page. It is masquerading 10.42.0.* network, not bridge, but it's one click which automatically configures routing table (route -n), network interface (ifconfig), iptable (iptables -L -v), and dnsmasq DHCP on NetworkManager. Background: ---------- Like most of you, I have - 1 ethernet on the motherboard (eth0) -- unused at the moment - 1 pci wireless card (wlan0) -- my connection to router and internet. What I wanted to do is connect my laptop to eth0 and be on the same network and get IP from the router, ie. "client bridge". Now, I can already do that with my Linksys WRT54G with DD-WRT firmware. But, I'm out of electrical outlets, and I really don't like those power block. I was trying to bridge together eth0 and wlan0, but couldn't go past $ brctl addif br0 wlan0 can't add wlan0 to bridge br0: Operation not supported Then, I found Network Connection page | IPv4 Address tab | Method dropdown menu | Shared option -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 15 21:07:30 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 16:07:30 -0500 Subject: Everything you need to know to install SteamOS on your very own computer | Ars Technica Message-ID: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/12/everything-you-need-to-know-to-install-steamos-on-your-very-own-computer/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 15 21:59:19 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 16:59:19 -0500 Subject: Everything you need to know to install SteamOS on your very own computer | Ars Technica In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131215215919.GA29697@node1.localdomain> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 04:07:30PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/12/everything-you-need-to-know-to-install-steamos-on-your-very-own-computer/ I was looking to download to USB stick and try it out. But, official Steam site says you need 1TB disk just for install. Forget it. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 15 22:27:57 2013 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 17:27:57 -0500 Subject: Everything you need to know to install SteamOS on your very own computer | Ars Technica In-Reply-To: <20131215215919.GA29697-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131215215919.GA29697@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <52AE2CED.1050901@yaknet.ca> On 13-12-15 04:59 PM, William Park wrote: > On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 04:07:30PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: >> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/12/everything-you-need-to-know-to-install-steamos-on-your-very-own-computer/ > I was looking to download to USB stick and try it out. But, official > Steam site says you need 1TB disk just for install. Forget it. It takes a lot of space (TB ?), is slow to install and I have found that 64 bit OS and it doesn't play nice. The 64 bit bug may be fixed but I'm not wasting my time. Other than that, my son has been happily playing away on Linux Mint 14 Nadia 32 bit on a 500 GB disk, Nvidia GFX8800, AMD Phenom X3 with 4 GB ram. He plays Team Fortress 2, Killing Floor, Half Life (multiple titles) and Natural Selection 2. He uses it daily for about 6 months. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 16 02:57:12 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 21:57:12 -0500 Subject: GPU Bitcoin Mining on old-ish hardware Message-ID: I noticed that Debian had added a "specialized CPU" package for bitcoin mining (http://packages.debian.org/sid/main/bfgminer) and thought I might try exercising that on the IBM Xeon server I picked up last year. (Purty old, but it runs...) The server has an ATI Radeon 7000 series graphics card built in... root at tucker:~# lspci | grep -i radeon 01:06.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV100 [Radeon 7000 / Radeon VE] I inferred from that that I should be installing an ATI OpenCL package in order to be able to exercise it. I pulled a ~150MB download from ATI, and started up an X server. Alas, bfgminer doesn't recognize this as a GPU that it can use: root at tucker:~# bfgminer -n [2013-12-15 21:52:21] 0 GPU devices max detected It's quite possible that the RV100 is too ancient to be supportable by OpenCL. It's also possible (poking at this) that I need to install ATI proprietary-ish binaries to get X to recognize more about the RV100. (ergo, another 150MB of downloads :-( ). Is it possible I'm one little step (ATI bins) away from this being workable? Or is this just Too Ancient and/or Too Fiddly to be worth bothering with? -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 16 04:16:00 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 23:16:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: GPU Bitcoin Mining on old-ish hardware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | The server has an ATI Radeon 7000 series graphics card built in... | root at tucker:~# lspci | grep -i radeon | 01:06.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. | [AMD/ATI] RV100 [Radeon 7000 / Radeon VE] Here is a list of supported cards. I think that it is the right list. It doesn't go back before the Radeon HD 5k series. The newer architectures are more programmable. Besides this, I don't think that you actually make a profit running anything but mining ASICs or perhaps FPGAs. And then only if you get them cheaper than the market price. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 16 12:05:29 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 07:05:29 -0500 Subject: GPU Bitcoin Mining on old-ish hardware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Besides this, I don't think that you actually make a profit running > anything but mining ASICs or perhaps FPGAs. And then only if you get > them cheaper than the market price. > > -- +1 Its not worth it any more unless you have specialized ASIC that's less than 6 months old. They have adjusted the algorithm so that you now almost need a something on top 500 to make anything. See this link too. http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21590901-it-looks-overvalued-even-if-digital-currency-crashes-others-will-follow-bitcoin Quote: The system itself is straining at the seams (see Technology Quarterly). The amount of computing power consumed by its transaction-verification system, which has the side-effect of ?mining? new Bitcoins, is mushrooming: it now far exceeds that of the world?s 500 fastest supercomputers combined. At the same time Bitcoin?s method of recording and processing transactions, and compensating those who verify them, is becoming unwieldy. End quote: In my opinion, bitcoins look like pyramid scheme. Those who got in early make a killing out of those who get involved later. Don't think it make sense to get involved now. Better check the other virtual currencies that are coming up William > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 16 15:26:07 2013 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 10:26:07 -0500 Subject: GPU Bitcoin Mining on old-ish hardware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 16 December 2013 07:05, William Muriithi wrote: > >> Besides this, I don't think that you actually make a profit running >> anything but mining ASICs or perhaps FPGAs. And then only if you get >> them cheaper than the market price. >> >> -- > > +1 > > Its not worth it any more unless you have specialized ASIC that's less than > 6 months old. Unless the place where your hardware is located is heated with electricity and the heating system would be in use. Locate the computer(s) where it/they would efficiently supplement the electric heating system. Other than the initial hardware outlay, bitcoin generation would be essentially free no matter what the hardware configuration or time involved, provided the premises doesn't get too hot. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 16 17:01:57 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 12:01:57 -0500 Subject: GPU Bitcoin Mining on old-ish hardware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52AF3205.8000902@gmail.com> On 13-12-16 10:26 AM, Scott Allen wrote: > > Locate the > computer(s) where it/they would efficiently supplement the electric > heating system. Unfortunately there are bits of most computers that like to be kept at least slightly temperature controlled, so your hardware may not be too happy with the move from the server room to the HVAC system. Having a CPU-as-heating-element* would involve you in some building engineering with years of inertia. This isn't too compatible with upgrading your mining hardware on a monthly basis. Still, bitcoin mining is a little like Formula 1 or the space race. I have no interest in participating, but it sure could bring the price of some technology I could use to a sane level. cheers, Stewart *: hey, it's the Hairy Smoking Golfball concept, all over again! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 16 17:23:08 2013 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 12:23:08 -0500 Subject: GPU Bitcoin Mining on old-ish hardware In-Reply-To: <52AF3205.8000902-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52AF3205.8000902@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 16 December 2013 12:01, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Unfortunately there are bits of most computers that like to be kept at > least slightly temperature controlled, so your hardware may not be too > happy with the move from the server room to the HVAC system. I'm not talking about a big operation. In a room that's heated by electric baseboard heaters, with a thermostat in that room, a system mining bitcoins would just act as another heater. The electricity used would cost you nothing that you wouldn't have to pay anyway to run the baseboard heaters. That's assuming that your system alone doesn't generate more heat than is required to maintain the room at the desired temperature. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 16 20:55:42 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:55:42 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> Message-ID: FWIW, earlier this year I decided to pull the plug on Rogers and go antenna+Internet. Process so far: - Get Rogers out for everything, replaced by teksavvy 50M DSL and a Usenet account - Got a Channel Mater antenna which feeds into an HDHomerun - Ubuntu server running Plex Media Server, TVHeadend, Sickbeard, CouchPotato and Deluge - Clients are a mix of XBMC and Plex (unfortunately, each has its own set of insufferable flaws): - The main room is a Win7 PC because it is proxied to get US Netflix, Pandora, Hulu, BBC iPlayer as well as Plex Home Theater - I have two Pis running RasPlex and OpenELEC (haven't picked between them yet) - Seriously considering the CuBox to replace the Pi's -- less fragile case and built-in IR receivers Still having problems making the TVheadend PVR work. I've been experimenting with a few different remotes but haven't yet found one I completely like. But generally happy overall, and I'm paying $200 a month less than I used to. On 14 December 2013 00:15, Matt Price wrote: > On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Stewart C. Russell > wrote: > > I've been doing something similar to Richard for the last four years. > > Here's my setup: > > > > * server: a SheevaPlug (could very easily be a Raspberry Pi). > > > > * software: Firefly/mt-daapd (this is now unmaintained code, and lots of > > people have complained about the code quality and produced a variety of > > half-assed forks, but it's been rock solid for me for a 30,000+ track > > collection). You want the r1696 nightly, or one of its Debian patched > > relations. The least half-assed fork is forked-daapd, which adds iPhone > > remote control but loses mt-daapd's SQL-based smart playlists. > > > > huh. I hadn't heard of this at all. And it looks like forked-daapd > will run on openwrt, so maybe I could just use our router as the main > media server (wow!). > > Has the disadvantage of being itunes-centric. But as I understand it > rhythmbox can manage daap, and there's an android app or two I see > > > * hardware: ancient Roku SoundBridges. If you can find these used, > > they're pretty good. They crop up on eBay quite a lot because Roku > > shipped crappy power supplies that couldn't drive the big VFD displays > > on the SoundBridge. A new decent PSU can be had for about $10. They do > > wireless (sorta; the very latest supported G) and wired networking, and > > have phono, mini-stereo and TOSLINK digital outputs. > > > interesting. > > > mt-daapd and its variants pretend to be an iTunes shared library. There > > is lots of software that supports this (curiously, the frequently least > > compatible is ? iTunes. Hmm). I have had little success with DLNA; I > > don't think devices expect to get 35,000 tracks come at them. My DVD > > player goes to sleep before it has parsed the whole stream. > > > > Transcoding with a Raspberry Pi will be difficult. You should *just* be > > able to do a single stream from flac ? mp3 in real time. Last time I > > benchmarked it, lame -V2 encoded at 1.3? real time on the Pi. There are > > no really good fixed-point MP3 encoders, so lightweight ARM chips really > > struggle. > > ok, that's good to know, thanks. > > > > > Many NAS boxes have mt-daapd built in. My Synology one is slowly > > becoming my main music server, as its dual-core PPC has a little more > > grunt than an ARM, and it serves tunes just fine. So you may not need a > > separate server. > > ok, neat, thanks > > > > > cheers, > > Stewart > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 17 21:44:37 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 16:44:37 -0500 Subject: GPU Bitcoin Mining on old-ish hardware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131217214437.GA17774@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 09:57:12PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > I noticed that Debian had added a "specialized CPU" package for > bitcoin mining (http://packages.debian.org/sid/main/bfgminer) and > thought I might try exercising that on the IBM Xeon server I picked up > last year. (Purty old, but it runs...) > > The server has an ATI Radeon 7000 series graphics card built in... > root at tucker:~# lspci | grep -i radeon > 01:06.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. > [AMD/ATI] RV100 [Radeon 7000 / Radeon VE] > > I inferred from that that I should be installing an ATI OpenCL package > in order to be able to exercise it. I pulled a ~150MB download from > ATI, and started up an X server. > > Alas, bfgminer doesn't recognize this as a GPU that it can use: > > root at tucker:~# bfgminer -n > [2013-12-15 21:52:21] 0 GPU devices max detected > > It's quite possible that the RV100 is too ancient to be supportable by OpenCL. > > It's also possible (poking at this) that I need to install ATI > proprietary-ish binaries to get X to recognize more about the RV100. > (ergo, another 150MB of downloads :-( ). > > Is it possible I'm one little step (ATI bins) away from this being > workable? Or is this just Too Ancient and/or Too Fiddly to be worth > bothering with? Well you almost certainly would need the binary drivers. Those tend to not support cards that aren't fairly recent, although I have no idea how old a Radeon 7000 is. Seems to be a 2001 era card. There is NO way there is driver support for that, and almost certainly no way it could run openCL stuff. It is completely obsolete. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 17 21:57:53 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 16:57:53 -0500 Subject: Everything you need to know to install SteamOS on your very own computer | Ars Technica In-Reply-To: <20131215215919.GA29697-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131215215919.GA29697@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20131217215753.GB17774@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 04:59:19PM -0500, William Park wrote: > On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 04:07:30PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > > http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/12/everything-you-need-to-know-to-install-steamos-on-your-very-own-computer/ > > I was looking to download to USB stick and try it out. But, official > Steam site says you need 1TB disk just for install. Forget it. The article says 500GB, and claims it doesn't appear to use anywhere near that. It does not let you pick anything in the setup though and hence isn't currently dual boot friendly. I am vaguely tempted to give it a try on the desktop machine I haven't got around to reassembling for about a year now after I borrowed some parts. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 17 22:05:03 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:05:03 -0500 Subject: 2.4GHz working, but 5GHz not working -- strange dmesg error In-Reply-To: References: <20131212211000.GA17374@node1.localdomain> <20131213163533.GS20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131217220503.GC17774@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 04:46:44PM -0500, Tim Tisdall wrote: > On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > I remember it took a long time to clue in to needing the package > > 'wireless-regdb' to configure it to know which country I was in and > > hence which frequencies were allowed to be tried. Once I did install > > that and tell it I was in Canada, then 5GHz just worked. > > How did you set the country? I have wireless-regdb installed on my > system but not sure how to tell it I'm in Canada. When I run 'crda' > it says "COUNTRY environment variable not set", but "env COUNTRY=CA" > doesn't seem to make a difference. "iw reg get" tells me "country > US". > > I've never had my wireless adapter connect to my router at 5GHz (in > Ubuntu) and never really knew why. However, 5GHz is allowed in the US > so I'm guessing there's probably something else I'm missing. Found it!!! # cat /etc/modprobe.d/cfg80211.conf options cfg80211 ieee80211_regdom=CA -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 17 22:23:38 2013 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:23:38 -0500 Subject: Everything you need to know to install SteamOS on your very own computer | Ars Technica In-Reply-To: <20131217215753.GB17774-pG1WoS4lUCfXALD0FKolu/jg2bfiNLsbLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20131215215919.GA29697@node1.localdomain> <20131217215753.GB17774@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <52B0CEEA.1030705@yaknet.ca> On 13-12-17 04:57 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 04:59:19PM -0500, William Park wrote: >> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 04:07:30PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: >>> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/12/everything-you-need-to-know-to-install-steamos-on-your-very-own-computer/ >> I was looking to download to USB stick and try it out. But, official >> Steam site says you need 1TB disk just for install. Forget it. > The article says 500GB, and claims it doesn't appear to use anywhere > near that. > > It does not let you pick anything in the setup though and hence isn't > currently dual boot friendly. > > I am vaguely tempted to give it a try on the desktop machine I haven't > got around to reassembling for about a year now after I borrowed some > parts. > My son's machine is dual booting with Windows 8. We've ran Win8 less than a couple hours since so 99.99 % Linux. Steam is only on the Linux side. It was a clean install on Windows and Linux using 2 drives. Still it was a couple hours of my life I won't get back. Steam installs OK but updates and Game installs take a while. After a couple weeks it messed up (64 bit issue). I copied all his games and Steam files over. Installed 32 bit, re-installed Steam it and utilized the back up. That saved a lot of time. Funny thing he just asked me about running 64 bit and I told him if it breaks he'll have to figure out how fix it. He decided against it. I think I know what book I'll buy him for Christmas. I doubt with your ability you'll have these issues. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 17 22:37:17 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:37:17 -0500 Subject: GPU Bitcoin Mining on old-ish hardware In-Reply-To: <20131217214437.GA17774-pG1WoS4lUCfXALD0FKolu/jg2bfiNLsbLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20131217214437.GA17774@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 09:57:12PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: >> I noticed that Debian had added a "specialized CPU" package for >> bitcoin mining (http://packages.debian.org/sid/main/bfgminer) and >> thought I might try exercising that on the IBM Xeon server I picked up >> last year. (Purty old, but it runs...) >> >> The server has an ATI Radeon 7000 series graphics card built in... >> root at tucker:~# lspci | grep -i radeon >> 01:06.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. >> [AMD/ATI] RV100 [Radeon 7000 / Radeon VE] >> >> I inferred from that that I should be installing an ATI OpenCL package >> in order to be able to exercise it. I pulled a ~150MB download from >> ATI, and started up an X server. >> >> Alas, bfgminer doesn't recognize this as a GPU that it can use: >> >> root at tucker:~# bfgminer -n >> [2013-12-15 21:52:21] 0 GPU devices max detected >> >> It's quite possible that the RV100 is too ancient to be supportable by OpenCL. >> >> It's also possible (poking at this) that I need to install ATI >> proprietary-ish binaries to get X to recognize more about the RV100. >> (ergo, another 150MB of downloads :-( ). >> >> Is it possible I'm one little step (ATI bins) away from this being >> workable? Or is this just Too Ancient and/or Too Fiddly to be worth >> bothering with? > > Well you almost certainly would need the binary drivers. Those tend > to not support cards that aren't fairly recent, although I have no idea > how old a Radeon 7000 is. Seems to be a 2001 era card. There is NO way > there is driver support for that, and almost certainly no way it could > run openCL stuff. It is completely obsolete. That seems right. I had no trouble installing OpenCL, but that's not the interesting bit; it also required installing the closed source ATI Radeon X driver, and when I pulled *that* (the second 150MB of downloads that I alluded to), the installer poked at the graphics card and concluded it was not supported. Poof. Agreed, it's essentially completely obsolete, at least for the purpose of running OpenCL. Perfectly sufficient for displaying a bit of graphics, not that I particularly care, as the box is intended as a server. Thanks all for the comments; the "soft" answers to the effect that bitcoin mining is a mostly futile exercise are probably of general interest. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 17 22:45:17 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:45:17 -0500 Subject: Everything you need to know to install SteamOS on your very own computer | Ars Technica In-Reply-To: <52B0CEEA.1030705-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20131215215919.GA29697@node1.localdomain> <20131217215753.GB17774@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <52B0CEEA.1030705@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <20131217224517.GD17774@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 05:23:38PM -0500, John Myshrall wrote: > My son's machine is dual booting with Windows 8. We've ran Win8 less > than a couple hours since so 99.99 % Linux. Steam is only on the > Linux side. It was a clean install on Windows and Linux using 2 > drives. Still it was a couple hours of my life I won't get back. > Steam installs OK but updates and Game installs take a while. > > After a couple weeks it messed up (64 bit issue). I copied all his > games and Steam files over. Installed 32 bit, re-installed Steam it > and utilized the back up. That saved a lot of time. Funny thing he > just asked me about running 64 bit and I told him if it breaks he'll > have to figure out how fix it. He decided against it. I think I know > what book I'll buy him for Christmas. > > I doubt with your ability you'll have these issues. Or at least I am willing to deal with it. I am not willing to run Ubuntu. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 18 00:38:50 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 19:38:50 -0500 Subject: 2.4GHz working, but 5GHz not working -- strange dmesg error In-Reply-To: <20131217220503.GC17774-pG1WoS4lUCfXALD0FKolu/jg2bfiNLsbLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20131212211000.GA17374@node1.localdomain> <20131213163533.GS20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131217220503.GC17774@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131218003849.GA3503@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 05:05:03PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Found it!!! > > # cat /etc/modprobe.d/cfg80211.conf > options cfg80211 ieee80211_regdom=CA Thanks, that can replace manual setting (iw reg set CA) in my rc script. But, I still have the same problem with channel/width combination, but at least I know which combination works and doesn't work. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 18 17:13:47 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 12:13:47 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: <52AB9C9F.8080501-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> <20131213162641.GR20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <52AB9C9F.8080501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20131218171347.GA17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 06:47:43PM -0500, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 13-12-13 11:26 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > But the pi has hardware floating point. Is it that bad or are you > > running the wrong kind of arm linux on it? > > I just re-ran a test using lame 3.99.5 on two machines: > > * encoding a wav file to mp3 using 'lame -V2' on a Raspberry Pi > (Raspbian armv6l) encoded at 2.2? real time > > * the same file on my i7 laptop: 51? real time. And that was only using > one of its cores. > > While it would be nice to have the GPU as a general media encoder, we're > not there yet. If you must encode mp3s quickly on a Raspberry Pi, there > are a couple of options: > > * Comprec - http://unimut.fsk.uni-heidelberg.de/demi/comprec/index.html > This uses ARM assembly language. The code is a little fiddly to > compile, but can encode to a 128 kbit/s mp3 in ~ 6? real time > > * Shine - https://github.com/savonet/shine > This is actually being maintained, and is portable between > architectures. Not quite as fast as comprec, at 2.7? real time. It's > screamingly fast on x86_64, btw. > > Please note that both of these are based on the old '8hz' mp3 encoder, > which was a fairly literal interpretation of the original Fraunhofer > code. They only start producing okay sounding files at high bitrates. > > If you need to decode mp3s quickly, MAD is pretty good: > http://www.underbit.com/products/mad Cortex-A15 1.5GHz (running Debian Wheezy armhf): # lame -V 2 04-Apologize.wav LAME 3.99.5 32bits (http://lame.sf.net) Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 18671 Hz - 19205 Hz Encoding 04-Apologize.wav to 04-Apologize.mp3 Encoding as 44.1 kHz j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III VBR(q=2) Frame | CPU time/estim | REAL time/estim | play/CPU | ETA 7981/7981 (100%)| 0:15/ 0:15| 0:15/ 0:15| 13.373x| 0:00 32 [ 34] %* 40 [ 2] % 48 [ 4] % 56 [ 4] % 64 [ 1] % 80 [ 2] % 96 [ 4] % 112 [ 2] % 128 [ 319] %************* 160 [4169] %%%%%%%%%%************************************************************************************************************************************************************************ 192 [2736] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%************************************************************************ 224 [ 430] %%%%%%************* 256 [ 194] %%******* 320 [ 80] %*** --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- kbps LR MS % long switch short % 176.3 18.7 81.3 95.4 2.4 2.2 Writing LAME Tag...done ReplayGain: -8.6dB Athlon64 3500+ (single core 2.2GHz) (Running Debian Sid amd64): # lame -V 2 04-Apologize.wav LAME 3.99.5 64bits (http://lame.sf.net) Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 18671 Hz - 19205 Hz Encoding 04-Apologize.wav to 04-Apologize.mp3 Encoding as 44.1 kHz j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III VBR(q=2) Frame | CPU time/estim | REAL time/estim | play/CPU | ETA 7981/7981 (100%)| 0:11/ 0:11| 0:17/ 0:17| 18.434x| 0:00 32 [ 34] %* 40 [ 2] % 48 [ 3] % 56 [ 5] % 64 [ 1] % 80 [ 2] % 96 [ 4] % 112 [ 3] % 128 [ 298] %********* 160 [4202] %%%%%%%%****************************************************************************************************************************** 192 [2722] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%***************************************************** 224 [ 443] %%%%*********** 256 [ 180] %%**** 320 [ 82] %** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- kbps LR MS % long switch short % 176.3 18.7 81.3 95.4 2.4 2.2 Writing LAME Tag...done ReplayGain: -8.6dB So that's not bad. I would say the 1.5GHz arm keeps up quite well with the 2.2GHz x86_64. Sure it's an OLD x86_64, but still. Maybe the ARMv6 in the Pi just is that shitty or VFPv2 versus VFPv3 makes that big a difference. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 18 20:57:21 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:57:21 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: <20131218171347.GA17874-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> <20131213162641.GR20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <52AB9C9F.8080501@gmail.com> <20131218171347.GA17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 18 December 2013 12:13, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > So that's not bad. I would say the 1.5GHz arm keeps up quite well with > the 2.2GHz x86_64. Sure it's an OLD x86_64, but still. > > Maybe the ARMv6 in the Pi just is that shitty or VFPv2 versus VFPv3 > makes that big a difference. :) > Hi Lennart, At the last TLUG meeting I had asked if anyone in the community with the CuBox-i as a useful Pi replacement for an XBMC client. It has a better case, built-in IR receiver, apparently faster processor, and you don't need to pay extra for useful media codecs. Do you -- or anyone else here -- have experience with this system? Thanks! - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 18 22:24:46 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 17:24:46 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> <20131213162641.GR20886@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <52AB9C9F.8080501@gmail.com> <20131218171347.GA17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131218222446.GB17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 03:57:21PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > On 18 December 2013 12:13, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > So that's not bad. I would say the 1.5GHz arm keeps up quite well with > > the 2.2GHz x86_64. Sure it's an OLD x86_64, but still. > > > > Maybe the ARMv6 in the Pi just is that shitty or VFPv2 versus VFPv3 > > makes that big a difference. :) > > > > Hi Lennart, > > At the last TLUG meeting I had asked if anyone in the community with the > CuBox-i as a useful Pi replacement for an XBMC > client. It has a better case, built-in IR receiver, apparently faster > processor, and you don't need to pay extra for useful media codecs. > > Do you -- or anyone else here -- have experience with this system? I have only read about the CuBox-i so far. I have the original CuBox on my desk. Here is a run on the original CuBox running Debian sid armhf: # lame -V 2 04-Apologize.wav LAME 3.99.5 32bits (http://lame.sf.net) Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 18671 Hz - 19205 Hz Encoding 04-Apologize.wav to 04-Apologize.mp3 Encoding as 44.1 kHz j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III VBR(q=2) Frame | CPU time/estim | REAL time/estim | play/CPU | ETA 7981/7981 (100%)| 1:11/ 1:11| 1:11/ 1:11| 2.9134x| 0:00 $<2> $<2> 32 [ 34] %$<3> 40 [ 2] %$<3> 48 [ 3] %$<3> 56 [ 4] %$<3> 64 [ 2] %$<3> 80 [ 3] %$<3> 96 [ 2] %$<3> 112 [ 4] %$<3> 128 [ 318] %*****$<3> 160 [4169] %%%%****************************************************************$<3> 192 [2736] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%***************************$<3> 224 [ 430] %%******$<3> 256 [ 194] %***$<3> 320 [ 80] %*$<3> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------$<3> kbps LR MS % long switch short %$<3> 176.3 18.7 81.3 95.4 2.4 2.2$<3> Writing LAME Tag...done ReplayGain: -8.6dB The Cortex-A9 should be faster per MHz than the PJ4 in the CuBox's Marvel Armada 510, so the CuBox-i should be faster than what I got there. I don't think I have any Cortex-A9 boards around at the moment. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 18 22:42:25 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 17:42:25 -0500 Subject: A real cool birthday cake Message-ID: http://imgur.com/a/BifHL#0 I suspect it would have been shorter if written in APL (or J), but this is mighty mighty cool!!! -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Dec 19 22:55:16 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 17:55:16 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20131219225516.GA29298@node1.localdomain> I'm sure you guys did your cost analysis... but, wouldn't it be cheaper with a low-end laptop or mini-PC box? - I got bitten by ARM fad and bought BeagleBone Black. My cost for the board itself was $60. Then, I was looking at microSD, microHDMI-to-HDMI cable, HDMI-to-DVI cable (my monitor is DVI), 5V regulated DC power block with 5.5mm/2.1mm barrel connector and with good transient response (surprisingly difficult to find). All these add up to real money. - Dealing with flaky Angstrom OS, Debian, and Ubuntu was another issue. - You learn how to install ARM Debian/Ubuntu, and learned how to work-around their proprietary booting process and subsystems. All these knowledge/experience will become obsolete when they release next version. So, you end up doing their QA for free, well actually, you pay for the privilege of doing their QA for them. -- William On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 03:55:42PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > FWIW, earlier this year I decided to pull the plug on Rogers and go > antenna+Internet. > > Process so far: > > - Get Rogers out for everything, replaced by teksavvy 50M DSL and a > Usenet account > - Got a Channel Mater antenna which feeds into an HDHomerun > - Ubuntu server running Plex Media Server, TVHeadend, Sickbeard, > CouchPotato and Deluge > - Clients are a mix of XBMC and Plex (unfortunately, each has its own > set of insufferable flaws): > - The main room is a Win7 PC because it is proxied to get US Netflix, > Pandora, Hulu, BBC iPlayer as well as Plex Home Theater > - I have two Pis running RasPlex and OpenELEC (haven't picked between > them yet) > - Seriously considering the CuBox to replace > the Pi's -- less fragile case and built-in IR receivers > > Still having problems making the TVheadend PVR work. I've been > experimenting with a few different remotes but haven't yet found one I > completely like. > But generally happy overall, and I'm paying $200 a month less than I used > to. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 04:02:34 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 23:02:34 -0500 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... Message-ID: I'm about to install ARCH linux on my new laptop, which has a 240G SSD hard drive. Sine the drive is not huge, I think I will use just a single partition for /, rather than a bunch for /var, /home, etc. It's my first time with an SSD so I wondered whether folks had recommendations for a file system choice. I understand, e.g., that GRUB doesn't support booting from f2fs, so I suppose that's out, but as far as I understand everything else shold wok fine. Thanks, Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 04:09:47 2013 From: bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Bill Duncan) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 23:09:47 -0500 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131220040947.GA666@linda> Mount with "noatime" option for sure. Not sure about the prevailing wisdom on which fs to use now, I'd probably just go with ext4. Journalling is still probably a good idea and its what I use. Have fun! On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 11:02:34PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > I'm about to install ARCH linux on my new laptop, which has a 240G SSD > hard drive. Sine the drive is not huge, I think I will use just a > single partition for /, rather than a bunch for /var, /home, etc. > > It's my first time with an SSD so I wondered whether folks had > recommendations for a file system choice. I understand, e.g., that > GRUB doesn't support booting from f2fs, so I suppose that's out, but > as far as I understand everything else shold wok fine. > > Thanks, > > Matt > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Bill Duncan, bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org +1 416 697-9315 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 04:11:40 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 23:11:40 -0500 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52B3C37C.2050004@utoronto.ca> On 19/12/13 11:02 PM, Matt Price wrote: > I'm about to install ARCH linux on my new laptop, which has a 240G SSD > hard drive. Sine the drive is not huge, I think I will use just a > single partition for /, rather than a bunch for /var, /home, etc. > > It's my first time with an SSD so I wondered whether folks had > recommendations for a file system choice. I understand, e.g., that > GRUB doesn't support booting from f2fs, so I suppose that's out, but > as far as I understand everything else shold wok fine. I had huge performance issues with deletes using BTRFS on a LUKS encrypted partition. I'd just go with ext4 and you won't have to think about it again. I'd suggest encrypting everything except /boot as well since it's a laptop. You won't notice any slow downs. With enough RAM you can use tmpfs on /tmp as well. If you go this route, don't forget to encrypt your swap too. It's not hard, on my Debian laptop I just get two prompts when starting up, one for root and one for swap. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 05:14:05 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 00:14:05 -0500 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131220051405.GA5650@node1.localdomain> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 11:02:34PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > I'm about to install ARCH linux on my new laptop, which has a 240G SSD > hard drive. Sine the drive is not huge, I think I will use just a > single partition for /, rather than a bunch for /var, /home, etc. > > It's my first time with an SSD so I wondered whether folks had > recommendations for a file system choice. I understand, e.g., that > GRUB doesn't support booting from f2fs, so I suppose that's out, but > as far as I understand everything else shold wok fine. SSD is no different from HD. GRUB will be booting off /boot, so it needs to be something GRUB can deal with. But, the rest can be anything. I'd recommend ext4 with 'discard' option for TRIM. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 09:33:10 2013 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 06:33:10 -0300 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: <20131220051405.GA5650-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131220051405.GA5650@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: Welcome to Arch Linux! I would stay with ext4, but I really would prefer to have different partitions (/boot, /home, /, ..). It will improve your system and it will be easier for future troubleshooting, etc... You'll only need a big partition for /home. Just pick a litle space for the others. My / is using only 8Gb of 10gb. And this is a four years old installation. You'll just need to remember that from times to times you'll need to clean your cache with "pacman -Sc", and you'll be fine. Best, Em sexta-feira, 20 de dezembro de 2013, William Park escreveu: > On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 11:02:34PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > > I'm about to install ARCH linux on my new laptop, which has a 240G SSD > > hard drive. Sine the drive is not huge, I think I will use just a > > single partition for /, rather than a bunch for /var, /home, etc. > > > > It's my first time with an SSD so I wondered whether folks had > > recommendations for a file system choice. I understand, e.g., that > > GRUB doesn't support booting from f2fs, so I suppose that's out, but > > as far as I understand everything else shold wok fine. > > SSD is no different from HD. GRUB will be booting off /boot, so it > needs to be something GRUB can deal with. But, the rest can be > anything. I'd recommend ext4 with 'discard' option for TRIM. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib P?s-Graduando em Governan?a de Tecnologia da Informa??o - EST?CIO/FIC Graduado em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 14:53:14 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:53:14 -0500 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131220145314.GC17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 11:02:34PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > I'm about to install ARCH linux on my new laptop, which has a 240G SSD > hard drive. Sine the drive is not huge, I think I will use just a > single partition for /, rather than a bunch for /var, /home, etc. > > It's my first time with an SSD so I wondered whether folks had > recommendations for a file system choice. I understand, e.g., that > GRUB doesn't support booting from f2fs, so I suppose that's out, but > as far as I understand everything else shold wok fine. ext4 with trim enabled should be a decent option. f2fs is certainly not ready for actual use. It does appear to be faster than ext4 though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 14:58:15 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:58:15 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: <20131219225516.GA29298-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> <20131219225516.GA29298@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20131220145815.GD17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 05:55:16PM -0500, William Park wrote: > I'm sure you guys did your cost analysis... but, wouldn't it be cheaper > with a low-end laptop or mini-PC box? > > - I got bitten by ARM fad and bought BeagleBone Black. My cost for the > board itself was $60. Then, I was looking at microSD, > microHDMI-to-HDMI cable, HDMI-to-DVI cable (my monitor is DVI), 5V > regulated DC power block with 5.5mm/2.1mm barrel connector and with > good transient response (surprisingly difficult to find). All these > add up to real money. And what kind of low end PC or laptop would you consider? Some people like small and low power consumption which the PC option won't be. Lots of people have USB chargers around already from various devices, so the power supply is probably not an issue for most people. All my monitors have HDMI, so I would only need one cable, not two (and one cable and a $4 adapter would do the job too). microSD is not expensive either, depending how big you insist it has to be. Besides the cost to buy it up front isn't always what people care about. Having something that is cheap to leave on all the time, not making much heat or taking much space counts for something too. They are also cuter. > - Dealing with flaky Angstrom OS, Debian, and Ubuntu was another issue. I have had no issues with Debian being flacky on armhf. > - You learn how to install ARM Debian/Ubuntu, and learned how to > work-around their proprietary booting process and subsystems. All > these knowledge/experience will become obsolete when they release next > version. So, you end up doing their QA for free, well actually, you > pay for the privilege of doing their QA for them. Installing on arm systems is certainly not as simple as a PC. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 15:08:54 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 10:08:54 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: <20131219225516.GA29298-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> <20131219225516.GA29298@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <52B45D86.30307@gmail.com> On 13-12-19 05:55 PM, William Park wrote: > I'm sure you guys did your cost analysis... but, wouldn't it be cheaper > with a low-end laptop or mini-PC box? Not really. The power cost alone of running a laptop/small PC 24/7 would equal the hardware cost of a Raspberry Pi. If a Raspberry Pi can handle the media formats you need, why not? I don't really find the ARM-specific stuff a problem; GPIO is a bonus, for when I need it. I do have a similar experience to you with the BeagleBone Black, though. Mine is currently sitting unpowered and unloved after a very frustrating initial experience. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 15:32:20 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 10:32:20 -0500 Subject: Interesting home made Raspberry PI case... Message-ID: We seem to have a reasonable number of Raspberry PI fans here, and for them here is a PI project that could be of interest (and this is a project that could be easily adapted to some other small form factor computers, like the Beagle Bone Black). I ran across this home made Steampunk (mixing Queen Victoria style with modern technology) Raspberry PI case design: http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Raspberry-Pi-or-Mr-Clock-workers-server/ I have mixed feelings regarding the whole Steampunk style, but I really like the lack of clutter this design offers, with a USB hub and power supply tucked away in the base under the Raspberry PI. I also like the use of a glass dome, so the guts of the Raspberry PI are on display and the optional Raspberry PI camera can be used without issue. Lastly I can see some easy ways to simplify the design to a point where it would be within the limits of my modest wood working abilities... Of the commercial cases my current favorite are the ones from ModMyPi, which while fairly nice and inexpensive do leave one with a bunch of cables running around the desk. So, the above is a higher cost, higher effort, but neater looking solution to holding/protecting a PI... Colin. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 16:13:52 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 11:13:52 -0500 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: References: <20131220051405.GA5650@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 4:33 AM, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Welcome to Arch Linux! > > I would stay with ext4, but I really would prefer to have different > partitions (/boot, /home, /, ..). Actually I do have a question about /boot. in the arch beginner's guide it says, ---- In case you have a UEFI motherboard, mount the EFI System Partition at your preferred mountpoint (/boot used for example): # mkdir -p /mnt/boot # mount /dev/sdXY /mnt/boot ----- Does that mean that the EFI system partition and /boot are the same thing on modern (GPT) disks? This is my first gpt system so I've never seen this before. > > It will improve your system and it will be easier for future > troubleshooting, etc... > > You'll only need a big partition for /home. Just pick a litle space for the > others. My / is using only 8Gb of 10gb. And this is a four years old > installation. You'll just need to remember that from times to times you'll > need to clean your cache with "pacman -Sc", and you'll be fine. > hmm. on my current (ubuntu) system, whih has a lot of stuff on it, admittedly, my / is muh larger: ---------- ~$ df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda5 37G 26G 9.0G 75% / /dev/sda6 221G 216G 5.2G 98% /home /home/matt/.Private 221G 216G 5.2G 98% /home/matt ------------- and my home directory is huge (gotta fix that!). so, I'm worried 10G won't be enough, but I don't want to have any more unused space than I have to... > Best, > > Em sexta-feira, 20 de dezembro de 2013, William Park escreveu: > >> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 11:02:34PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: >> > I'm about to install ARCH linux on my new laptop, which has a 240G SSD >> > hard drive. Sine the drive is not huge, I think I will use just a >> > single partition for /, rather than a bunch for /var, /home, etc. >> > >> > It's my first time with an SSD so I wondered whether folks had >> > recommendations for a file system choice. I understand, e.g., that >> > GRUB doesn't support booting from f2fs, so I suppose that's out, but >> > as far as I understand everything else shold wok fine. >> >> SSD is no different from HD. GRUB will be booting off /boot, so it >> needs to be something GRUB can deal with. But, the rest can be >> anything. I'd recommend ext4 with 'discard' option for TRIM. >> -- >> William >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > > =================================================== > > Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib > > > P?s-Graduando em Governan?a de Tecnologia da Informa??o - EST?CIO/FIC > Graduado em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC > Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 > Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil > Celular: +55 085 87620983 > Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA > Minha Pessoa: Blog > Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE > > =================================================== > > > Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. > N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). > Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a > dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 16:18:29 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 11:18:29 -0500 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: <20131220145314.GC17874-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131220145314.GC17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: forgot to say, thanks everyone for the advice -- I guess I'll use ext4 with the noatime & discard options, hopefully that will be enough. I've never done fulldisk encryption, I guess I might as well give it a try... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 16:19:01 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 11:19:01 -0500 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: References: <20131220051405.GA5650@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20131220161901.GE17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 11:13:52AM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 4:33 AM, Marcelo Cavalcante > wrote: > > Welcome to Arch Linux! > > > > I would stay with ext4, but I really would prefer to have different > > partitions (/boot, /home, /, ..). > > Actually I do have a question about /boot. in the arch beginner's > guide it says, > ---- > In case you have a UEFI motherboard, mount the EFI System Partition at > your preferred mountpoint (/boot used for example): > > # mkdir -p /mnt/boot > # mount /dev/sdXY /mnt/boot > ----- > > Does that mean that the EFI system partition and /boot are the same > thing on modern (GPT) disks? This is my first gpt system so I've > never seen this before. Well GPT disks can be used without EFI, in which case a BIOS boot partition is used instead of the EFI system partition, or for systems that aren't PCs, different choices are made for where to boot from. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 16:21:31 2013 From: iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Isaac Connor) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 11:21:31 -0500 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: References: <20131220145314.GC17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <52B46E8B.1080801@connortechnology.com> On 13-12-20 11:18 AM, Matt Price wrote: > forgot to say, thanks everyone for the advice -- I guess I'll use ext4 > with the noatime & discard options, hopefully that will be enough. > > I've never done fulldisk encryption, I guess I might as well give it a try... > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Don't use discard. Have a cronjob do the trim every weekend or something like that. I use something like #! /bin/sh for mount in / /home; do fstrim $mount done The constant trimming adds lag to your operations. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 16:22:25 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 11:22:25 -0500 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: <20131220161901.GE17874-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20131220051405.GA5650@node1.localdomain> <20131220161901.GE17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 11:13:52AM -0500, Matt Price wrote: >> On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 4:33 AM, Marcelo Cavalcante >> Actually I do have a question about /boot. in the arch beginner's >> guide it says, >> ---- >> In case you have a UEFI motherboard, mount the EFI System Partition at >> your preferred mountpoint (/boot used for example): >> >> # mkdir -p /mnt/boot >> # mount /dev/sdXY /mnt/boot >> ----- >> >> Does that mean that the EFI system partition and /boot are the same >> thing on modern (GPT) disks? This is my first gpt system so I've >> never seen this before. > > Well GPT disks can be used without EFI, in which case a BIOS boot > partition is used instead of the EFI system partition, or for systems > that aren't PCs, different choices are made for where to boot from. I should have said "my first EFI system" -- anyway, I am rather confused about whether I need a separate /boot partition in additoin to the EFI system partition -- that will be espeially important if I'm going to be encrypting the whole disk as jamon suggests. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 16:32:12 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 11:32:12 -0500 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: <52B46E8B.1080801-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <20131220145314.GC17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <52B46E8B.1080801@connortechnology.com> Message-ID: <20131220163212.GF17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 11:21:31AM -0500, Isaac Connor wrote: > On 13-12-20 11:18 AM, Matt Price wrote: > >forgot to say, thanks everyone for the advice -- I guess I'll use ext4 > >with the noatime & discard options, hopefully that will be enough. > > > >I've never done fulldisk encryption, I guess I might as well give it a try... > >-- > >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > Don't use discard. Have a cronjob do the trim every weekend or > something like that. I use something like > > #! /bin/sh > for mount in / /home; do > fstrim $mount > done > > The constant trimming adds lag to your operations. Good point. Should have remembered to mention that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 16:33:16 2013 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:33:16 -0200 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: References: <20131220051405.GA5650@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: 2013/12/20 Matt Price > > hmm. on my current (ubuntu) system, whih has a lot of stuff on it, > admittedly, my / is muh larger: > > ---------- > ~$ df -h > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/sda5 37G 26G 9.0G 75% / > /dev/sda6 221G 216G 5.2G 98% /home > /home/matt/.Private 221G 216G 5.2G 98% /home/matt > ------------- > > and my home directory is huge (gotta fix that!). so, I'm worried 10G > won't be enough, but I don't want to have any more unused space than I > have to... > I guess 30 GB for / would be enough for you.On my laptop (Arch Linux) I do only need 10GB, but on my workstation (Arch Linux) I'm using a 20GB partition for /. Workstation: [kalib at tuxcaverna ~]$ df -h Sist. Arq. Tam. Usado Disp. Uso% Montado em /dev/sda3 20G 16G 3,6G 82% / dev 2,9G 0 2,9G 0% /dev run 2,9G 748K 2,9G 1% /run tmpfs 2,9G 0 2,9G 0% /dev/shm tmpfs 2,9G 0 2,9G 0% /sys/fs/cgroup tmpfs 2,9G 620K 2,9G 1% /tmp /dev/sda4 427G 316G 90G 78% /home /dev/sda1 99M 25M 68M 27% /boot -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 16:33:36 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 11:33:36 -0500 Subject: file system reommendations for SSD... In-Reply-To: References: <20131220051405.GA5650@node1.localdomain> <20131220161901.GE17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131220163336.GG17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 11:22:25AM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > I should have said "my first EFI system" -- anyway, I am rather > confused about whether I need a separate /boot partition in additoin > to the EFI system partition -- that will be espeially important if I'm > going to be encrypting the whole disk as jamon suggests. Well no harm in making more partitions, given they are small partitions, and GPT has room for 128 partitions, so you are not likely to run out like you were with the old DOS partition table. I haven't actually ever set up a system to boot with EFI, I have used compatibility mode booting so far. -- Len Sorensn -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 18:51:52 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 13:51:52 -0500 Subject: Interesting home made Raspberry PI case... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52B491C8.7040205@ve3syb.ca> On 13-12-20 10:32 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > I ran across this home made Steampunk (mixing Queen Victoria style with > modern technology) Raspberry PI case design: > > http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Raspberry-Pi-or-Mr-Clock-workers-server/ Interesting project. I don't think I'll be making it any time soon for my own Pi. I'm not into Steampunk but I have seen a number of people in Steampunk themed costumes and other Steampunk themed items over the years. My favourite for Steampunk themed items is the treatment of a keyboard and monitor seen in this project: http://1800recycling.com/2011/02/recycled-steampunk-keyboards/ -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 18:56:21 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 13:56:21 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: <20131220145815.GD17874-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> <20131219225516.GA29298@node1.localdomain> <20131220145815.GD17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20131220185621.GA13915@node1.localdomain> On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 09:58:15AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 05:55:16PM -0500, William Park wrote: > > - I got bitten by ARM fad and bought BeagleBone Black. My cost for the > > board itself was $60. Then, I was looking at microSD, > > microHDMI-to-HDMI cable, HDMI-to-DVI cable (my monitor is DVI), 5V > > regulated DC power block with 5.5mm/2.1mm barrel connector and with > > good transient response (surprisingly difficult to find). All these > > add up to real money. > > And what kind of low end PC or laptop would you consider? Some people I was thinking, something like Zotac ZBOX-ID18-U $139 at Canadacomputers. > like small and low power consumption which the PC option won't be. > Lots of people have USB chargers around already from various devices, > so the power supply is probably not an issue for most people. All my > monitors have HDMI, so I would only need one cable, not two (and one > cable and a $4 adapter would do the job too). microSD is not expensive > either, depending how big you insist it has to be. Let's look at USB chargers. Most USB chargers are for charging battery, so they may say 5V rms, but their waveform is not what you want to use. Now and then (more frequent than I would like), my board doesn't boot. I suspected power, because USB chargers had more problems than AC adapters. As last resort, I used ATX power supply, and no problem at all. My point is I shouldn't have to cut and splice AC adapters, hunt down oscilloscope, breath that toxic solder resin smoke, etc. It should just work. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 18:59:58 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 13:59:58 -0500 Subject: home audio system In-Reply-To: <20131220185621.GA13915-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <52A90373.6080504@rogers.com> <52AAFAFE.2050708@gmail.com> <20131219225516.GA29298@node1.localdomain> <20131220145815.GD17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20131220185621.GA13915@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20131220185958.GH17874@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 01:56:21PM -0500, William Park wrote: > I was thinking, something like Zotac ZBOX-ID18-U $139 at > Canadacomputers. Still needs HDMI, still needs storage, and comes with no RAM. And power consumption is way higher (the CPU alone is rated 17W). > Let's look at USB chargers. Most USB chargers are for charging battery, > so they may say 5V rms, but their waveform is not what you want to use. > Now and then (more frequent than I would like), my board doesn't boot. > I suspected power, because USB chargers had more problems than AC > adapters. As last resort, I used ATX power supply, and no problem at > all. My point is I shouldn't have to cut and splice AC adapters, hunt > down oscilloscope, breath that toxic solder resin smoke, etc. It should > just work. Depends on the system. Some have better voltage regulators than others. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 19:22:24 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:22:24 -0500 Subject: Interesting home made Raspberry PI case... In-Reply-To: <52B491C8.7040205-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <52B491C8.7040205@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 13-12-20 10:32 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> I ran across this home made Steampunk (mixing Queen Victoria style with >> modern technology) Raspberry PI case design: >> >> http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Raspberry-Pi-or-Mr-Clock-workers-server/ > > > Interesting project. I don't think I'll be making it any time soon for my > own Pi. I'm not into Steampunk but I have seen a number of people in > Steampunk themed costumes and other Steampunk themed items over the years. > > My favourite for Steampunk themed items is the treatment of a keyboard and > monitor seen in this project: > http://1800recycling.com/2011/02/recycled-steampunk-keyboards/ Here's some wearable-pi steampunk: I'm planning to try it sometime next year; still waiting on a replacement part for the new printer which was damaged in transit Also, says it's currently down for maintenance but there are some truly amazing steampunk products there. -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 http://psema4.com/pubkey.txt http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 20 20:37:46 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 15:37:46 -0500 Subject: Interesting home made Raspberry PI case... In-Reply-To: References: <52B491C8.7040205@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <52B4AA9A.9010609@sobac.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > Also, says it's currently down for > maintenance but there are some truly amazing steampunk products there. Datamancer (Richard Nagy) passed away last month: http://boingboing.net/2013/11/26/rip-richard-datamancer-na.html --Bob. On 13-12-20 02:22 PM, > On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: >> On 13-12-20 10:32 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> >>> I ran across this home made Steampunk (mixing Queen Victoria style with >>> modern technology) Raspberry PI case design: >>> >>> http://www.instructables.com/id/A-Raspberry-Pi-or-Mr-Clock-workers-server/ >> >> >> Interesting project. I don't think I'll be making it any time soon for my >> own Pi. I'm not into Steampunk but I have seen a number of people in >> Steampunk themed costumes and other Steampunk themed items over the years. >> >> My favourite for Steampunk themed items is the treatment of a keyboard and >> monitor seen in this project: >> http://1800recycling.com/2011/02/recycled-steampunk-keyboards/ > > Here's some wearable-pi steampunk: > > I'm planning to try it sometime next year; still waiting on a > replacement part for the new printer which was damaged in transit > > > > Also, says it's currently down for > maintenance but there are some truly amazing steampunk products there. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Dec 21 16:14:09 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 11:14:09 -0500 Subject: full-disk encryption WAS:Re:file system reommendations for SSD...] Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 19/12/13 11:02 PM, Matt Price wrote: > > I'd suggest encrypting everything except /boot as well since it's a > laptop. You won't notice any slow downs. With enough RAM you can use > tmpfs on /tmp as well. > > If you go this route, don't forget to encrypt your swap too. It's not > hard, on my Debian laptop I just get two prompts when starting up, one > for root and one for swap. man, on ARCH this is a bit of a hassle for me. I am struggling with a couple of things: - does the EFI system partiton get mounted at /boot or /boot/efi or somewhere else? - how do I generate a usable boot entry for gummiboot? In particular, how do I identify the base partiiton and the LUKS-encrypted volume by UUID, or LABEL, or whatever, within that boot entry? - is it possible to use a swapfile rather than a swap partition for suspend-to-disk operations? I would prefer that if possible but it feels rather compliated. suspend-to-disk is the only use I think I really have for swap, I would actually rather avoid real swap if possible Also: in your view what are the genuine, pratial benefits of full-dsik encryption vs. user-diretory encryption? that's what I use on Ubuntu and I've always thought it's sort o adequate, but have no doubt I oculd be wrong. Thanks, Matt > > Cheers, Jamon > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Dec 21 20:09:07 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 15:09:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: war story: another disk problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I previously reported disk problems with this machine. | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:18:41 -0400 (EDT) | Subject: [TLUG]: war story: another disk problem | I soon figured out the real cause: disk problems. These were made | visible by the dmesg command. | What happened? | | - not software: pretty up-to-date Ubuntu 12.04 on the disk didn't even | get to booting once the system was busted. | | - not heat: I left the machine off while I slept. The problem was | still there when I booted the live CD in the morning. | | - possibly the disk drive had an intermittent fault | | - perhaps a marginal power supply. Symptoms of power supply problems | can be subtle and intermittent. | | - perhaps a crappy motherboard (Gigabyte GA-P43T-ES3G). Another | datapoint on the motherboard: a few months ago the on-board | ethernet interface became unreliable and then reliably broken. | | - my best guess: some kind of SATA cable or connector failure. | Perhaps corrosion that was cleared up by plugging and unplugging. | | -->> your theory goes here <<-- I had more disk problems recently. One disk drive kept disappearing. It is a 3T Seagate disk that I bought last Boxing Day (perhaps the warranty is about to expire -- I don't remember its duration). dmesg showed lots of errors. Sample: [203401.179374] ata2.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x2400000 action 0x0 [203401.179384] ata2.00: BMDMA2 stat 0x650001 [203401.179391] ata2: SError: { Handshk UnrecFIS } [203401.179404] ata2.00: failed command: WRITE DMA EXT [203401.179416] ata2.00: cmd 35/00:e0:80:9e:05/00:02:24:01:00/e0 tag 0 dma 376832 out [203401.179419] res 51/04:c1:c7:9a:49/00:01:24:01:00/e0 Emask 0x1 (device error) [203401.179424] ata2.00: status: { DRDY ERR } [203401.179428] ata2.00: error: { ABRT } [203401.216400] ata2.00: configured for UDMA/33 [203401.216434] ata2: EH complete On rebooting (perhaps after a cooling of period) the disk seemed fine. SMART testing showed nothing remarkable. The disk is SATA and the computer is too old for SATA so this disk and another are run by a SATA host adapter that is an after-market PCI card. I swapped the connections between these two disks. The errors came back. The same disk had problems. So it isn't the particular SATA port that is the problem. I moved the disk drive within the case (Antec Sonata I), giving it more space to improve cooling. This had no effect. So I assumed that disk heating was not the problem. I found that there was a Seagate firmware update for this drive. Not easy to find: google finds lots of folks asking but no answers. I found the update through: https://apps1.seagate.com/downloads/request.html It was listed in a funny way: not under "Firmware" (which said that there was no update for this drive) but under "Certificate". It took my firmware from CC24 to CC29. The firmware update comes in two forms: a Windows program that creates a bootable USB stick and a .iso image to create a bootable CD. I tried dding the .iso image onto a USB stick but my computer would not boot from it (didn't take the time to figure out why). I burnt the CD and used it. This bootable system is a little Linux distro. The process was crude but it worked. (When I try to log into the Seagate forum to post a pointer to the firmware update for all those asking, the forum demands I change my password. When I attempt to, it says my account is disabled and that if I think that that is a mistake, contact Account Support. The account support page will not accept my message: it claims that the "description field" is empty (it is not). Every time you submit the form, and it perceives an error, it clears the form! Grrr.) In any case, the firmware update didn't solve the disk problem (still failing after some hours). I looked for a new disk controller but didn't have one in my collection. I found that the case has an air filter on the front, behind the plastic. It was loaded with dust bunnies (~10 years of service). And the case fan on the back was seized. I removed the bunnies and the fan. The system still failed after some hours. So I bought a new case fan. Not knowing much about them, I just asked Canada Computer to recommend one. Corsair Air Series SP120 Quiet Edition 120 mm x 25 mm, 3 pin $19.99 + tax. I suspect that a $10 one would have been good enough but I was tired of experimental science at this point. So far the machine is working. But it hasn't been a day yet. PS: I'm not totally happy with the Antec Sonata case. It was supposed to be high-end (not like the cheap cases I'd used up to then) and quiet. The power supply went a few years ago and the case fan went who knows when. And it isn't as quiet as the consumer HP computers that I've purchased. Perhaps this is a cascade of failures mediated by heat. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Dec 21 21:09:35 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 16:09:35 -0500 Subject: war story: another disk problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131221210935.GA30615@node1.localdomain> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 03:09:07PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > On rebooting (perhaps after a cooling of period) the disk seemed fine. > SMART testing showed nothing remarkable. I've never had SMART telling me a disk had problem, but the disks died or were dying anyways. I have same situtation with Hitachi 3TB. Heat seems to be the biggest factor. So, I've relegated it to backup (part of multiple backups, of course), where it's on for short duration. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Dec 21 21:20:52 2013 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 16:20:52 -0500 Subject: war story: another disk problem In-Reply-To: <20131221210935.GA30615-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131221210935.GA30615@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <52B60634.7060005@dinamis.com> On 12/21/2013 04:09 PM, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 03:09:07PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> On rebooting (perhaps after a cooling of period) the disk seemed fine. >> SMART testing showed nothing remarkable. > I've never had SMART telling me a disk had problem, but the disks died > or were dying anyways. I have same situtation with Hitachi 3TB. Heat > seems to be the biggest factor. So, I've relegated it to backup (part > of multiple backups, of course), where it's on for short duration. I've had two Western Digital drives inform me of impending failure via SMART. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay 647-778-8696 Dinamis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 23 22:17:44 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:17:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: war story: another disk problem In-Reply-To: <20131221210935.GA30615-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131221210935.GA30615@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: | From: William Park | I've never had SMART telling me a disk had problem, but the disks died | or were dying anyways. I've found SMART useful. Many (not all) spinning disks show signs of distress before failing totally. I find it useful. In this case, I suspect that the problem was with the controller and that's why SMART showed nothing. My SSD failure was severe and unheralded. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 22 14:40:06 2013 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 14:40:06 +0000 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? Message-ID: So, after a certain amount of work I have arch Linux installed on my new laptop. I thought I would give KDE a try, so installed the kde-meta package and booted up smoothly into KDE. It is so ugly! And its not at all obvious to me how to do most basic things. Has anyone made the switch from unity or gnome, and do you like it, and can you recommend some resources former beginners? I've been using Linux for a decade so don't need intros to basics, but the GUI really baffled me .l- I feel like my mother confronted with a new tablet. Never thought that would happen to me... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 25 00:22:49 2013 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 21:22:49 -0300 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I guess it's not kde's fault. I felt the same after using kde for 6 years and then take a look at unity. Returned to kde. It's natural... Just different. You'll need some time to get used to it. Something that make you fell more confortable with kde's menu, is clicking on it with the right bottom and choosing the "classic menu" style. Merry christmas Em domingo, 22 de dezembro de 2013, Matt Price escreveu: > So, after a certain amount of work I have arch Linux installed on my new > laptop. I thought I would give KDE a try, so installed the kde-meta package > and booted up smoothly into KDE. It is so ugly! And its not at all obvious > to me how to do most basic things. Has anyone made the switch from unity or > gnome, and do you like it, and can you recommend some resources former > beginners? I've been using Linux for a decade so don't need intros to > basics, but the GUI really baffled me .l- I feel like my mother confronted > with a new tablet. Never thought that would happen to me... > -- =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib P?s-Graduando em Governan?a de Tecnologia da Informa??o - EST?CIO/FIC Graduado em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 25 00:24:47 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:24:47 -0500 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: <10008_1387930652_rBP0HWhI013818_CAN_Dec-n4BesXeT73w65BbRku98mTGb4kE0unpJaq_vGNeJA1A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <10008_1387930652_rBP0HWhI013818_CAN_Dec-n4BesXeT73w65BbRku98mTGb4kE0unpJaq_vGNeJA1A@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <52BA25CF.2010309@utoronto.ca> On 22/12/13 09:40 AM, Matt Price wrote: > So, after a certain amount of work I have arch Linux installed on my new > laptop. I thought I would give KDE a try, so installed the kde-meta package > and booted up smoothly into KDE. It is so ugly! And its not at all obvious > to me how to do most basic things. Has anyone made the switch from unity or > gnome, and do you like it, and can you recommend some resources former > beginners? I've been using Linux for a decade so don't need intros to > basics, but the GUI really baffled me .l- I feel like my mother confronted > with a new tablet. Never thought that would happen to me... > Try alt+f2 to bring up krunner - it's like Gnome/Unity thing where you type what you want to run. Or in the menu there's a search box as well. KDE is what you make of it, so if you feel like fiddling I guarantee you can customize it to your liking via the UI settings. Yakuake is indispensable in any desktop environent - it isn't a KDE specific app, it works better than in Gnome or others. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 23 16:45:31 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 11:45:31 -0500 Subject: war story: another disk problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 21 December 2013 15:09, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > PS: I'm not totally happy with the Antec Sonata case. It was supposed > to be high-end (not like the cheap cases I'd used up to then) and > quiet. The power supply went a few years ago and the case fan went > who knows when. And it isn't as quiet as the consumer HP computers > that I've purchased. Perhaps this is a cascade of failures mediated > by heat. +1 on the "not loving the Antec Sonata." It's a well-built case and I haven't had hardware failures as you have, but when I bought it I moved an older Core 2 system out of its original Dell case (hush, Lennart) and into the Sonata case - and the Sonata was very noticeably louder. Since the supposed noise reduction is their biggest claim to fame, I've never been overly impressed. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 25 01:08:42 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 20:08:42 -0500 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52BA301A.7070501@rogers.com> Matt Price wrote: > And its not at all obvious to me how to do most basic things That's why I stick with the KDE 3 style desktop -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 25 01:53:50 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 20:53:50 -0500 Subject: war story: another disk problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52BA3AAE.6060204@utoronto.ca> On 23/12/13 11:45 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > +1 on the "not loving the Antec Sonata." It's a well-built case and I > haven't had hardware failures as you have, but when I bought it I moved an > older Core 2 system out of its original Dell case (hush, Lennart) and into > the Sonata case - and the Sonata was very noticeably louder. Since the > supposed noise reduction is their biggest claim to fame, I've never been > overly impressed. I think the only Sonata that was really solid was the first one. After that the quality dropped off, though all their Sonatas have been/are quiet at least. I decided to go for it with my most recent case and got an Antec P183. I haven't used many cases, but it has to be the most fantastic case that I've encountered. It's silent, is a full tower so there's plenty of space, the 120mm fans keep things nice and cool, and the separate PSU chamber is brilliant for noise and ventilation. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 25 02:10:04 2013 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 21:10:04 -0500 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131224211004.c0650f935316f23f5daa7c14@eol.ca> On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 14:40:06 +0000 Matt Price wrote: > So, after a certain amount of work I have arch Linux installed on my new > laptop. I thought I would give KDE a try, so installed the kde-meta package > and booted up smoothly into KDE. It is so ugly! And its not at all obvious > to me how to do most basic things. Has anyone made the switch from unity or > gnome, and do you like it, and can you recommend some resources former > beginners? I've been using Linux for a decade so don't need intros to > basics, but the GUI really baffled me .l- I feel like my mother confronted > with a new tablet. Never thought that would happen to me... Matt, I am not a big KDE fan either. When I upgraded my Fedora machine to the latest version of Gnome, I checked out KDE, and generally got a positive impression. The new(er) version was way faster than I recalled earlier. I dont' know if this is improved programming, or a newer, faster machine. There was something at the top, right hand corner of my screen called a Toolbox. This might be really nifty. In the end, I got my good ol' FVWM working. A lot of this depends upon what you are used to. If I were talking to a Windows user interested in Linux, I would strongly recommend XFCE or LXDE. These behave predictably to a Windows user. I do not like eye candy GUIs. There is room for only one resource pig on my computers. If you want a proper, secure login for your laptop, I strongly recommend KDM over GDM. I could not get GDM to _not_ display usernames. I keep my current install instructions up on my website... http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson/RevLinux/ -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 25 03:45:10 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 22:45:10 -0500 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131225034510.GA5184@node1.localdomain> On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 02:40:06PM +0000, Matt Price wrote: > So, after a certain amount of work I have arch Linux installed on my new > laptop. I thought I would give KDE a try, so installed the kde-meta package > and booted up smoothly into KDE. It is so ugly! And its not at all obvious > to me how to do most basic things. Has anyone made the switch from unity or > gnome, and do you like it, and can you recommend some resources former > beginners? I've been using Linux for a decade so don't need intros to > basics, but the GUI really baffled me .l- I feel like my mother confronted > with a new tablet. Never thought that would happen to me... I'm running Slackware-14 and KDE-4.8.5. Get rid of those funny icons and menu that they put on your desktop initially. Use the "taskbar" at the bottom. KDE icon is where Windows icon is and works like it. When KDE menu pops up, you'll see "Favourites", "Applications", "Computer", "Last Used", and "Leave". Of course, you'll be using "Favourites" most of the time. The menu is somewhat unusual. It's not tiling or overlapping. Instead, where you are in the menu tree is shown at the top, like "directory". The menu window itself is too small, so you get lost after few scrolls. That's why you use "Favourites" section. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Dec 25 11:36:12 2013 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:36:12 +0000 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: <20131225034510.GA5184-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131225034510.GA5184@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: I consider KDE to be a "better gnome than gnome" these days. Unity is a mess, imo, and KDE gives me a more gnome 2 experience. There are things I don't like about it but those are easily ignored. I switched about 2 years ago and haven't looked back. (I had tried and given up on KDE several times in the past too.) Thanks -Ben On Dec 25, 2013 3:45 AM, "William Park" wrote: > On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 02:40:06PM +0000, Matt Price wrote: > > So, after a certain amount of work I have arch Linux installed on my new > > laptop. I thought I would give KDE a try, so installed the kde-meta > package > > and booted up smoothly into KDE. It is so ugly! And its not at all > obvious > > to me how to do most basic things. Has anyone made the switch from unity > or > > gnome, and do you like it, and can you recommend some resources former > > beginners? I've been using Linux for a decade so don't need intros to > > basics, but the GUI really baffled me .l- I feel like my mother > confronted > > with a new tablet. Never thought that would happen to me... > > I'm running Slackware-14 and KDE-4.8.5. Get rid of those funny icons > and menu that they put on your desktop initially. Use the "taskbar" at > the bottom. KDE icon is where Windows icon is and works like it. When > KDE menu pops up, you'll see "Favourites", "Applications", "Computer", > "Last Used", and "Leave". Of course, you'll be using "Favourites" most > of the time. > > The menu is somewhat unusual. It's not tiling or overlapping. Instead, > where you are in the menu tree is shown at the top, like "directory". > The menu window itself is too small, so you get lost after few scrolls. > That's why you use "Favourites" section. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 27 08:54:18 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 03:54:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: <52BA25CF.2010309-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <10008_1387930652_rBP0HWhI013818_CAN_Dec-n4BesXeT73w65BbRku98mTGb4kE0unpJaq_vGNeJA1A@mail.gmail.com> <52BA25CF.2010309@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: | From: Jamon Camisso | Yakuake is indispensable in any desktop environent - it isn't a KDE | specific app, it works better than in Gnome or others. I'd never ehard of this before. Or the Gnome equivalent, Guake. So I read a bit about them and don't see why I'd want them. It's true that switching to terminal windows is a bit awkward by default. But I'd really hate having only one. In my world, I have lots, each with task-based lifetimes (not nested or any other simple relationship). Can you expain how it works for you? We might learn something. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 27 09:02:27 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 04:02:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Matt Price | I've been using Linux for a decade so don't need intros to | basics, but the GUI really baffled me .l- I feel like my mother confronted | with a new tablet. Never thought that would happen to me... If you've used Linux for a decade, would you not have exprienced KDE or earlier Gnome? Unity isn't a decade old, is it? I've not used KDE, but your report surprises me. What's the tough part? I've always assumed that each of the major desktop evironments were serviceable, if not awe inspiring. I'm not a master of desktops. I've always (i.e. for 30 years) just used what the OS provided me. I find tweaking to take too much effort considering that it gets washed away regularly. Heck, I've stuck with Gnome 3 long enough to be not annoyed by it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 27 09:46:43 2013 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 06:46:43 -0300 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: References: <10008_1387930652_rBP0HWhI013818_CAN_Dec-n4BesXeT73w65BbRku98mTGb4kE0unpJaq_vGNeJA1A@mail.gmail.com> <52BA25CF.2010309@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Hello, Em sexta-feira, 27 de dezembro de 2013, D. Hugh Redelmeier escreveu: > > I'd never ehard of this before. Or the Gnome equivalent, Guake. > > So I read a bit about them and don't see why I'd want them. > > It's true that switching to terminal windows is a bit awkward by default. > But I'd really hate having only one. In my world, I have lots, each with > task-based lifetimes (not nested or any other simple relationship). > > Can you expain how it works for you? We might learn something. I guess it's because yakuake is simple and fast to use. I do use it for almost 5 years and I agree with him. In MY desktops yakuake is a MUST. I just need to press F12 (for example) and her it is. And press F12 again and it hides itself. Much faster than press Ctrl + Alt +F2 and return to my X, or even faster amd easier than press Alt + F2 and type xterm, aterm, etc... And close it everytime to it doesn't stay on my taskbar. It's just and opinion, I know people who doesn't lime yakuake, but I love it. Best, -- =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib P?s-Graduando em Governan?a de Tecnologia da Informa??o - EST?CIO/FIC Graduado em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 27 14:48:38 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 09:48:38 -0500 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: References: <10008_1387930652_rBP0HWhI013818_CAN_Dec-n4BesXeT73w65BbRku98mTGb4kE0unpJaq_vGNeJA1A@mail.gmail.com> <52BA25CF.2010309@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <52BD9346.3080700@utoronto.ca> On 27/12/13 03:54 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Jamon Camisso > > | Yakuake is indispensable in any desktop environent - it isn't a KDE > | specific app, it works better than in Gnome or others. > > I'd never ehard of this before. Or the Gnome equivalent, Guake. > > So I read a bit about them and don't see why I'd want them. > > It's true that switching to terminal windows is a bit awkward by default. > But I'd really hate having only one. In my world, I have lots, each with > task-based lifetimes (not nested or any other simple relationship). > > Can you expain how it works for you? We might learn something. I use terminator & tmux extensively through the day for various tasks. I'll have one pane open for work chat/mail, a few for remote servers/poring over logs, and 3-5 others depending on what I'm doing. Terminator supports custom layouts and you can invoke it with a specified layout on startup. For example: terminator -l four -p dark This starts my four pane layout with the dark colour & font profile, which I use on my laptop. Specifying config, layout, and profile lets you mix and match as you choose depending on the task. I use the same ~/.config/terminator/config on my laptop and desktop, so depending on where I'm working, I can have 4 or 6 terminals open with the same profile. Very handy IMO. Which is all a long winded way of getting at Yakuake. For those one off moments of just needing a quick terminal and don't want to mess with desktop window tiling, arrangement, covering etc., they're brilliantly handy. Say you want to do a quick bit of math, fire up bc, or you want to run a local program or what have you. The extra hidden terminal is unobtrusive on my main desktop layout for those little one off tasks. Hit F12 and a terminal is there, run whatever is needed, and another F12 and it's hidden again. Give them a try. I have Yakauke setup to run on login via KDE's session autorun preferences, so the thing is just there all the time. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 27 22:52:43 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 17:52:43 -0500 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20131227225243.GA13470@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 04:02:27AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > I've not used KDE, but your report surprises me. What's the tough > part? I've always assumed that each of the major desktop evironments > were serviceable, if not awe inspiring. Lately, the KDE developers have gone nuts with "Semantic Desktop", where every file in your user directory is indexed in MySql. Yes!!! A database on a desktop. And recent threads in the Gentoo mailing list talk about email data loss in Kmail. > I'm not a master of desktops. I've always (i.e. for 30 years) just > used what the OS provided me. I find tweaking to take too much effort > ***CONSIDERING THAT IT GETS WASHED AWAY REGULARLY***. The Microsoft disease is spreading to the linux world. Why the bleep should every release require you to learn a new desktop paradigm, and re-do all your settings? In the case of Microsoft, I understand the greed motive... * make a brand new desktop UI paradigm for each major release * sell expensive instruction manuals and courses for how to use the new desktop UI * profit But that should not exist in linux. I've used ICEWM for several years now. There's a helpful launchbar at the bottom that auto-hides and stays out of the way until I need it. See my sig. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Dec 27 23:26:54 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:26:54 -0500 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: <20131227225243.GA13470-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20131227225243.GA13470@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <52BE0CBE.8090104@utoronto.ca> On 27/12/13 05:52 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Lately, the KDE developers have gone nuts with "Semantic Desktop", > where every file in your user directory is indexed in MySql. Yes!!! A > database on a desktop. And recent threads in the Gentoo mailing list > talk about email data loss in Kmail. This trend isn't exactly new - there are a plethora of engines that desktop environments have used. Beagle, recoll, couchudb. SQL isn't that bad - Firefox uses sqlite3 internally for everything, Amarok and Clementine use MySQL or sqlite3 etc. >> I'm not a master of desktops. I've always (i.e. for 30 years) just >> used what the OS provided me. I find tweaking to take too much effort >> ***CONSIDERING THAT IT GETS WASHED AWAY REGULARLY***. > > The Microsoft disease is spreading to the linux world. Why the bleep > should every release require you to learn a new desktop paradigm, and > re-do all your settings? I don't recall the switch to KDE4 from 3 being that much of an issue. I respect the KDE devs for also pushing ahead and rebuilding the core environment to make it more modular and expandable for others, despite the howls of protest from users who don't develop with it as a platform. KDE5 has been under way for some time now and will be a refinement of 4, with more flexibility for mobile applications. I'd be surprised if many on this list even know about that roadmap that goes back to 2011. > But that should not exist in linux. I've used ICEWM for several years > now. There's a helpful launchbar at the bottom that auto-hides and > stays out of the way until I need it. See my sig. I set my KDE bar to autohide as well, and with an alt+f2 run dialog, lt+ta to switch applications, and f12 for my trusty yakuake, it's rare that I use the mouse/menus at all when I'm really focused on a task. I think that ought to be the benchmark of a good desktop environment - how well it gets out of the way when you need it to, and how easily it can be brought to the fore when context switching. Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Dec 28 13:00:46 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 08:00:46 -0500 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: <20131227225243.GA13470-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20131227225243.GA13470@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <52BECB7E.2020701@gmail.com> On 13-12-27 05:52 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > > Lately, the KDE developers have gone nuts with "Semantic Desktop", > where every file in your user directory is indexed in MySql. And a very good idea it is indeed. Why should I need to remember where everything is? Just hit the hotkey, start typing some search terms, and the desktop presents the files - be it a scanned utility bill, a spreadsheet, code, whatever. It's not quite Jef Raskin's SwyftWare, but it helps me find my stuff. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Dec 28 13:59:53 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 08:59:53 -0500 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: <52BE0CBE.8090104-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20131227225243.GA13470@waltdnes.org> <52BE0CBE.8090104@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20131228135953.GA20148@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 06:26:54PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote > I don't recall the switch to KDE4 from 3 being that much of an issue. [...but...] > I respect the KDE devs for also pushing ahead and rebuilding the > core environment to make it more modular and expandable for others, > ***DESPITE THE HOWLS OF PROTEST FROM USERS*** If it wasn't much of an issue, why the howls of protest from users? > who don't develop with it as a platform. Which raises the question... is KDE a desktop environment or a development platform? > KDE5 has been under way for some time now and will be a refinement of 4, > with more flexibility for mobile applications. I'd be surprised if many > on this list even know about that roadmap that goes back to 2011. KDE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc, etc, etc. Reminds me of... Windows 95 Windows 98/SE Windows NT Windows 2000 Windows XP Windows Vista Windows 7 Windows 8 Back before I retired, we had training courses at work each time we "upgraded". To quote the Firesign Theatre comedy album... "Everything you know is wrong"; finding systems settings was a special pain each time we "upgraded Windows". Meanwhile, here at home, I've been using a combination of ICEWM and the command line. Retraining is *NOT* required every year or 2. > I set my KDE bar to autohide as well, and with an alt+f2 run dialog, > lt+ta to switch applications, and f12 for my trusty yakuake, it's rare > that I use the mouse/menus at all when I'm really focused on a task. > > I think that ought to be the benchmark of a good desktop environment - > how well it gets out of the way when you need it to, and how easily it > can be brought to the fore when context switching. It's more than just autohiding. I've noticed long threads about resource-hogging and slow response because of nearly continuous indexing (Nepomuk/Strigi/Akonadi/etc). I may be biased because I ran almost 7 years on a Dell (450 mhz Pentium, 256 megabytes *MAIN RAM*, and 8 megabytes video card), before it died on me. Dells last a long time for me. More recently, I recycled a Dell Core 2 Dell to Free Geeks. It still worked, but was unable to handle Youtube 1080 HD video and had problems with NHL Gamecentre Live streams. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 29 01:16:09 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 20:16:09 -0500 Subject: Does KDE really suck this much? In-Reply-To: <52BECB7E.2020701-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20131227225243.GA13470@waltdnes.org> <52BECB7E.2020701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20131229011608.GA24740@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 08:00:46AM -0500, Stewart C. Russell wrote > On 13-12-27 05:52 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > > Lately, the KDE developers have gone nuts with "Semantic Desktop", > > where every file in your user directory is indexed in MySql. > > And a very good idea it is indeed. Why should I need to remember where > everything is? Just hit the hotkey, start typing some search terms, and > the desktop presents the files - be it a scanned utility bill, a > spreadsheet, code, whatever. Constantly indexing all your files can slow your system down dramatically. I'm now retired, but back when I was working, I had to put up with Windows. One of the first things I did on getting a new system or image was to turn off file indexing. The machine was a lot snappier with that 1 tweak. As for linux, I feel that the trade-off of running the occasional "find" slows me down less than constantly running an indexer in the background. My files are organized in a logical directory structure, so I generally know where a file about a particular item is located. If I threw everything into "My Files" then, yes, I would need a file indexer/locater. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Dec 29 02:19:36 2013 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 21:19:36 -0500 Subject: Wget faster than Firefox Message-ID: <8ff63d1e0d3c75c03ff8ef8b42469a76.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> This afternoon I came across some web page pdfs that were *extremely* slow to download and display, some to the point of being unusable. I then discovered that the 'wget' command downloads those files in a matter of seconds. Then I used acroread to display them. This is with Firefox 24.0 under Linux Mint 16. Trying it again this evening, I can't reproduce the effect, but I'm curious: anyone know why this might happen? Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 30 01:15:14 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 20:15:14 -0500 Subject: Mediasonic Probox USB3/eSATA non-raid -- USB3 not working, but USB2 works Message-ID: <20131230011514.GA32284@node1.localdomain> Does anyone have working Mediasonic Probox USB3/eSATA non-raid box? I just bought Mediasonic Probox (4-bay non-raid enclosure) Model: HF2-SU3S2 rev.2 Serial: MAY1301327 When connected via USB3, it is not recognized by the computer, and harddisks do not show up at all. Nothing in dmesg. However, when connected via USB2, it works. Probox's JMicron chipset is recognized, and I can see all harddisks (3 x 3TB). Kernel output is as follows: Dec 29 18:48:42 node1 kernel: [354203.357812] usb 2-5: new high-speed USB device number 5 using ehci-pci Dec 29 18:48:42 node1 kernel: [354203.483253] usb 2-5: New USB device found, idVendor=152d, idProduct=0539 Dec 29 18:48:42 node1 kernel: [354203.483267] usb 2-5: New USB device strings: Mfr=10, Product=11, SerialNumber=5 Dec 29 18:48:42 node1 kernel: [354203.483274] usb 2-5: Product: USB to ATA/ATAPI Bridge Dec 29 18:48:42 node1 kernel: [354203.483280] usb 2-5: Manufacturer: JMicron Dec 29 18:48:42 node1 kernel: [354203.483285] usb 2-5: SerialNumber: 000000000000 Specs for computer side are: OS: Linux 3.12.6 Motherboard: Asus M5A97 USB3 chipset: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM1042 SuperSpeed USB Host Controller [1b21:1042] USB2 chipset: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB EHCI Controller [1002:4396] I emailed Mediasonic.ca, but I might get faster response from TLUG. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Dec 30 03:49:58 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 22:49:58 -0500 Subject: Mediasonic Probox USB3/eSATA non-raid -- USB3 not working, but USB2 works -- (fixed) In-Reply-To: <20131230011514.GA32284-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20131230011514.GA32284@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20131230034958.GA3023@node1.localdomain> Sorry for the noise. After rebooting the machine, USB3 controller and harddisks show up, but write speed was 36MB/s. After rebooting the Probox, write speed is now 120MB/s. Damned if I know... -- William On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 08:15:14PM -0500, William Park wrote: > Does anyone have working Mediasonic Probox USB3/eSATA non-raid box? > > I just bought > Mediasonic Probox (4-bay non-raid enclosure) > Model: HF2-SU3S2 rev.2 > Serial: MAY1301327 > > When connected via USB3, it is not recognized by the computer, and > harddisks do not show up at all. Nothing in dmesg. > > However, when connected via USB2, it works. Probox's JMicron chipset is > recognized, and I can see all harddisks (3 x 3TB). Kernel output is as > follows: > Dec 29 18:48:42 node1 kernel: [354203.357812] usb 2-5: new high-speed USB device number 5 using ehci-pci > Dec 29 18:48:42 node1 kernel: [354203.483253] usb 2-5: New USB device found, idVendor=152d, idProduct=0539 > Dec 29 18:48:42 node1 kernel: [354203.483267] usb 2-5: New USB device strings: Mfr=10, Product=11, SerialNumber=5 > Dec 29 18:48:42 node1 kernel: [354203.483274] usb 2-5: Product: USB to ATA/ATAPI Bridge > Dec 29 18:48:42 node1 kernel: [354203.483280] usb 2-5: Manufacturer: JMicron > Dec 29 18:48:42 node1 kernel: [354203.483285] usb 2-5: SerialNumber: 000000000000 > > Specs for computer side are: > OS: Linux 3.12.6 > Motherboard: Asus M5A97 > USB3 chipset: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM1042 SuperSpeed USB Host Controller [1b21:1042] > USB2 chipset: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB EHCI Controller [1002:4396] > > I emailed Mediasonic.ca, but I might get faster response from TLUG. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 31 00:43:46 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:43:46 -0500 Subject: Catalog of NSA compromised equipments Message-ID: Hello pals, This looks like a petty interesting read. http://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/12/30/nsas-ant-division-catalog-of-exploits-for-nearly-every-major-software-hardware-firmware/ Remind me of Lennart claimed hard disk firmware are petty safe a month or two ago. Apparently NSA has compromised them too. Quote : Another program attacks the firmware in hard drives manufactured by Western Digital, Seagate, Maxtor and Samsung, all of which, with the exception of latter, are American companies. Here, too, it appears the US intelligence agency is compromising the technology and products of American companies. End quote: These guys have been petty busy. William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 31 01:25:39 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:25:39 -0500 Subject: Catalog of NSA compromised equipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 30, 2013 7:45 > > This looks like a petty interesting read. > > http://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/12/30/nsas-ant-division-catalog-of-exploits-for-nearly-every-major-software-hardware-firmware/ FYI This link is from cryptography-of7zbby7T3pWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org, I just felt like it was unwise to share it as you never know who is listening. A little too late though but a least I came clean of the source. > > Remind me of Lennart claimed hard disk firmware are petty safe a month or two ago. Apparently NSA has compromised them too. > > Quote : > > Another program attacks the firmware in hard drives manufactured by Western Digital, Seagate, Maxtor and Samsung, all of which, with the exception of latter, are American companies. Here, too, it appears the US intelligence agency is compromising the technology and products of American companies. > > End quote: > > These guys have been petty busy. > > William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 31 02:20:22 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:20:22 -0500 Subject: Catalog of NSA compromised equipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52C229E6.8040005@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > > Another program attacks the firmware in hard drives manufactured by > Western Digital, Seagate, Maxtor and Samsung, all of which, with the > exception of latter, are American companies. Here, too, it appears the > US intelligence agency is compromising the technology and products of > American companies. > One would assume they want to collect info. How does a hard drive communicate anything back to the NSA? That would require the drive to send the data via the SATA port, through the IP stack and then out the NIC. How is that possible? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 31 04:46:10 2013 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 23:46:10 -0500 Subject: Catalog of NSA compromised equipments In-Reply-To: <52C229E6.8040005-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <52C229E6.8040005@rogers.com> Message-ID: <52C24C12.3000802@alteeve.ca> On 30/12/13 09:20 PM, James Knott wrote: > William Muriithi wrote: >> >> Another program attacks the firmware in hard drives manufactured by >> Western Digital, Seagate, Maxtor and Samsung, all of which, with the >> exception of latter, are American companies. Here, too, it appears the >> US intelligence agency is compromising the technology and products of >> American companies. >> > > One would assume they want to collect info. How does a hard drive > communicate anything back to the NSA? That would require the drive to > send the data via the SATA port, through the IP stack and then out the > NIC. How is that possible? It doesn't work that way. It works by, for example, knowing when /etc/shadow is being read and modifying/injecting data into the stream that would allow an attacker to log into a target system. You'll note that specific support for ext2/3 FS were listed (and that was some years ago, so no reason not to think ext4 is also vulnerable). At the end of the day, if an attacker has access to your BIOS, you have no privacy, OS aside. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 31 15:53:21 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 10:53:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Catalog of NSA compromised equipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi | http://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/12/30/nsas-ant-division-catalog-of-exploits-for-nearly-every-major-software-hardware-firmware/ Notice the Nightstand is built on (does not exploit) Fedora Core 3. It exploits Windows / Internet Explorer. I bet NSA wished Explorer had been released for Linux. Sparrow II uses some Linux (not a mainsream distro). Iratemonk is a disk frimware hack. It gains PC control through MBR (Master Boot Record) substitution. Thus it can control what gets booted. It knows FAT, NTFS, EXT3, and UFS. So Linux and BSD are not safe. I've stopped reading for now, at about half way down. All these revelations seem to be from about 2007. Who knows what they are up to now. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Dec 31 20:15:01 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:15:01 -0500 Subject: Catalog of NSA compromised equipments In-Reply-To: <52C24C12.3000802-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <52C229E6.8040005@rogers.com> <52C24C12.3000802@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <52C325C5.9010005@sobac.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 James Knott wrote: > How does a hard drive communicate anything back to the NSA? Digimer wrote: > It doesn't work that way. It works by, for example, knowing when > /etc/shadow is being read and modifying/injecting data into the > stream[...] Time to re-read "Reflections on Trusting Trust" by Ken Thompson. He writes: "A well installed microcode bug will be almost impossible to detect." http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html - --Bob. On 13-12-30 11:46 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 30/12/13 09:20 PM, James Knott wrote: >> William Muriithi wrote: >>> >>> Another program attacks the firmware in hard drives >>> manufactured by Western Digital, Seagate, Maxtor and Samsung, >>> all of which, with the exception of latter, are American >>> companies. Here, too, it appears the US intelligence agency is >>> compromising the technology and products of American >>> companies. >>> >> >> One would assume they want to collect info. How does a hard >> drive communicate anything back to the NSA? That would require >> the drive to send the data via the SATA port, through the IP >> stack and then out the NIC. How is that possible? > > It doesn't work that way. It works by, for example, knowing when > /etc/shadow is being read and modifying/injecting data into the > stream that would allow an attacker to log into a target system. > You'll note that specific support for ext2/3 FS were listed (and > that was some years ago, so no reason not to think ext4 is also > vulnerable). > > At the end of the day, if an attacker has access to your BIOS, you > have no privacy, OS aside. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability iEUEARECAAYFAlLDJcEACgkQuRKJsNLM5eowaACeMLR9OCTdbdy5xf1TOlf52Nni tEYAmIrb0ZhOsG1JcM2AWeRsjchv374= =0XXP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists