From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 1 01:39:37 2013 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 21:39:37 -0400 Subject: Mint 14 with MATE: DVD not mounted In-Reply-To: <5158B6FF.1070406-Ja3L+HSX0kI@public.gmane.org> References: <088d77e94116fd2806ced3de295119aa@mail.vex.net> <5158B505.60308@vex.net> <5158B6FF.1070406@vex.net> Message-ID: googling your issue seems to bring up others having same. may be a bug they are still working on? May be time to change your disto to the much better linux mint DE version (that's what i use). ;) -tl On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Paul King wrote: > By the way, I have just noticed that there are actually 3 DVD icons now on > my desktop > for the same blank disk. Things just get stranger and stranger. > > The problem persists that I still have a blank DVD that I can't seem to > record on. > > Paul > > > > On 13-03-31 06:13 PM, Paul King wrote: > >> On 13-03-31 04:46 PM, ted leslie wrote: >> >>> >>> what does dmesg say during this. . and also at boot up? >>> may want to turn off auto mount also while examining the issue. >>> USB of sata/ide dvd? >>> .tl >>> >>> >>> dmesg does not give any messages at all related to this; but an icon >> appears on my desktop. The icon is useless, since Brasero won't record on >> the device anyway (tried that). There are also no obvious kernel errors at >> boot-up, tied to either the DVD-RW device or the Blu-Ray-R/DVD-RW device >> (although it seems to be looking for a floppy drive that doesn't exist - >> fd0). All connections on this machine are SATA. >> >> It appears that just because the device icon is on my desktop, it doesn't >> mean necessarily that it is actually mounted -- sda, sdb, and sdc are my >> hard drive partitions, and there are no sdd or sde devices which would give >> evidence that the DVD is detected. >> >> As Hugh pointed out, this is all moot, since if the DVD is blank, there >> is no filesystem there to mount anyway, so the fact that there is no sdd or >> sde is correct behaviour for a disk with no fs on it. >> >> Paul >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 1 06:31:51 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 02:31:51 -0400 Subject: USB3.0 Flash Drive 64GB -- $19.99 (April 1 only) Message-ID: <20130401063151.GA12779@node1.opengeometry.net> FYI, Canadacomputer has daily sale on Corsair Flash Voyager GT (Man.Refurbished) 64GB USB 3.0 Flash Drive, Read: 135MB/s Write: 83MB/s (CMFVYGT3-64GB/RF) The $279 (save $100) in the picture is wrong. Item link says $19.99 ($49.99 - $30.00). It's old model. The newer models (with the same name) have faster transfer rates. It makes me wonder what firmware screwup made them "refurbished". :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 1 11:53:41 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 07:53:41 -0400 Subject: USB3.0 Flash Drive 64GB -- $19.99 (April 1 only) In-Reply-To: <20130401063151.GA12779-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20130401063151.GA12779@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <51597545.60101@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > FYI, Canadacomputer has daily sale on > > Corsair Flash Voyager GT (Man.Refurbished) 64GB USB 3.0 Flash Drive, > Read: 135MB/s Write: 83MB/s (CMFVYGT3-64GB/RF) > > The $279 (save $100) in the picture is wrong. Item link says $19.99 > ($49.99 - $30.00). It's old model. The newer models (with the same > name) have faster transfer rates. It makes me wonder what firmware > screwup made them "refurbished". :-) Maybe it's just an April Fools joke. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 2 17:32:35 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 13:32:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: faster video on intel HD hardware Message-ID: On the Mtyttv list, there is a thread pointing at this Intel release: It now support vaapi which, I think, lets stuff like MytTV get at the video acceleration. I've not tried it or even figured it out, but it seems to be a Good Thing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 2 18:35:29 2013 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 11:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Hey Message-ID: <1364927729.65927.YahooMailNeo@web140604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> http://www.sedecfrance.com/jskpt/va.xlf?lbkc DAVID CHIPMAN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stan-IWrolz/j94yY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 2 19:32:34 2013 From: stan-IWrolz/j94yY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Stan Witkowski) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 15:32:34 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy lowers prices Message-ID: <20130402193431.58F30A2D98@lethe.ss.org> Got this today (April 02, 2013): April 02, 2013 We are writing to inform you of some really great changes to your Internet service from TekSavvy. We are lowering pricing and passing on the savings to all of our customers! How TekSavvy is that? As of your next billing date, you will notice that the Internet package you are subscribing to will change from High Speed DSL 12 at $41.99 to High Speed DSL 15 Pro at $32.99. No action is required on your part. As of March 27th, 2013 TekSavvy automatically made the updates to our system. Your next bill will reflect the new pricing. [ STAN:> I confirm that the PDF copy of the invoice they sent me shows the NEW $32.99 price as of March 31, 2013!!! Note that my original plan (High Speed DSL 12 at $41.99 with a 300GB cap) also, at that time (AND STILL NOW), included a no-charge-against-cap 6 hour window from 2AM - 8AM DAILY. (Anything downloaded between 2AM - 8AM was FREE, not part of the cap.) PING = 10 ms << CURRENT STATS Download Speed = 15.62 Mbps Upload Speed = 0.92 Mbps from: www.speedtest.net I can't actually remember the last time (if ever) a company boosted my service by 25 per cent while AT THE SAME TIME dropping the price by 25 per cent!! ] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 2 19:45:59 2013 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 15:45:59 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy lowers prices In-Reply-To: <20130402193431.58F30A2D98-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130402193431.58F30A2D98@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: I know i was happy when rogers boosted my service from about 18Mbps to 140Mbps with just a modem change. Issue was, I had to inquire to find out in order for it to happen :( but my cap is only 120 GB i think, but I rarely hit that. Even my speed test to TekSavvy can't give me the numbers of other places, but that may be because they cap their speed tests to 100-110 Mbps. -tl On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Stan Witkowski wrote: > > > Got this today (April 02, 2013): > > > > April 02, 2013 > We are writing to inform you of some really great changes to your Internet > service > from TekSavvy. We are lowering pricing and passing on the savings to all > of our customers! How TekSavvy is that? > > As of your next billing date, you will notice that the Internet package > you are subscribing > to will change from High Speed DSL 12 at $41.99 to High Speed DSL 15 Pro > at $32.99. > > No action is required on your part. As of March 27th, 2013 TekSavvy > automatically made > the updates to our system. Your next bill will reflect the new pricing. > > [ STAN:> I confirm that the PDF copy of the invoice they sent me > shows the NEW $32.99 price as of March 31, 2013!!! > > Note that my original plan > (High Speed DSL 12 at $41.99 with a 300GB cap) > also, at that time (AND STILL NOW), included a > no-charge-against-cap 6 hour window from 2AM - 8AM DAILY. > (Anything downloaded between 2AM - 8AM was FREE, not part of the > cap.) > > PING = 10 ms << CURRENT STATS > Download Speed = 15.62 Mbps > Upload Speed = 0.92 Mbps > from: www.speedtest.net > > I can't actually remember the last time (if ever) a company > boosted my service by 25 per cent while AT THE SAME TIME > dropping the price by 25 per cent!! > > ] > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 2 19:49:04 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 15:49:04 -0400 Subject: Parking near GTALUG's new meeting location. Message-ID: <515B3630.3070300@ss.org> So since GTALUG is moving locations, for some folks this means a change in parking. Since it's been discussed here before I thought I'd bring the subject up again. Drew currently recommends, The Green P parking has reasonable rates for the area: Campus Store Garage located at 300 Victoria Street, on the west side of Victoria Street between Dundas and Gould Streets. Daily parking is available for non-permit holders. This lot is just North of the Imperial Pub. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 2 20:21:54 2013 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 16:21:54 -0400 Subject: Parking near GTALUG's new meeting location. In-Reply-To: <515B3630.3070300-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <515B3630.3070300@ss.org> Message-ID: <515B3DE2.3020303@rogers.com> On 02/04/13 3:49 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > > Campus Store Garage located at 300 Victoria Street, on the west side of > Victoria Street between Dundas and Gould Streets. I used to park there for evening meetups, but stopped a few years back, because 2 or 3 times in a row, I couldn't get a spot (and traffic is slow due to the foot traffic of students and others). I usually park at the GreenP opposite St. Michael's Hospital at Victoria and Queen - entrance off Queen St. You can also enter this lot from Richmond St E., if you've come off the Don Valley. If you don't mind spending $2 more for the evening, then the GreenP right underneath Dundas Square looks to be convenient, but I've never parked there. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 2 20:28:27 2013 From: marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 16:28:27 -0400 Subject: Parking near GTALUG's new meeting location. In-Reply-To: <515B3630.3070300-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <515B3630.3070300@ss.org> Message-ID: I recommend the less know Pitman Hall Garage, 160 Mutual St. There is a flat fee of just $5 for the evening (after 5pm?). http://goo.gl/maps/sLgRG FYI Vehicle Parking at Ryerson: http://www.ryerson.ca/ubs/parking/vehicle.html 2013/4/2 Scott Sullivan > So since GTALUG is moving locations, for some folks this means a change in > parking. Since it's been discussed here before I thought I'd bring the > subject up again. > > Drew currently recommends, > > The Green P parking has reasonable rates for the area: > > Campus Store Garage located at 300 Victoria Street, on the west side of > Victoria Street between Dundas and Gould Streets. Daily parking is > available for non-permit holders. > > This lot is just North of the Imperial Pub. > > -- > Scott Sullivan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 2 21:06:59 2013 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 17:06:59 -0400 Subject: Parking near GTALUG's new meeting location. In-Reply-To: <515B3DE2.3020303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <515B3630.3070300@ss.org> <515B3DE2.3020303@rogers.com> Message-ID: <158634caffecad3148a90eec5d879640.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > I usually park at the GreenP opposite St. Michael's Hospital at Victoria > and Queen - entrance off Queen St. You can also enter this lot from > Richmond St E., if you've come off the Don Valley. > Dunno about the evening rates, but the daytime rate there is *fierce*. I agree with the suggestion about Pitman Hall, it's reasonable. But if there are night school classes, it fills up fast. BTW, I haven't seen anything about 'the new location'. (I may have been sleeping.) Can someone post a building and room number? Thanks. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 2 21:15:12 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 17:15:12 -0400 Subject: Parking near GTALUG's new meeting location. In-Reply-To: <158634caffecad3148a90eec5d879640.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <515B3630.3070300@ss.org> <515B3DE2.3020303@rogers.com> <158634caffecad3148a90eec5d879640.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:06 PM, wrote: > BTW, I haven't seen anything about 'the new location'. (I may have been > sleeping.) Can someone post a building and room number? Thanks. It was posted to the announcements list earlier; here's the relevant info: George Vari Engineering and Computing Centre 245 Church Street, Room 211 http://goo.gl/maps/16oJ2 Best, -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 2 22:00:37 2013 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 18:00:37 -0400 Subject: Parking near GTALUG's new meeting location. In-Reply-To: <158634caffecad3148a90eec5d879640.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <515B3630.3070300@ss.org> <515B3DE2.3020303@rogers.com> <158634caffecad3148a90eec5d879640.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <515B5505.90802@rogers.com> On 02/04/13 5:06 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Dunno about the evening rates, but the daytime rate there is *fierce*. Yes, I meant for evening meetups. Everything downtown is expensive during the day. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 3 00:12:57 2013 From: maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org (Maxcess) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 20:12:57 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy lowers prices Message-ID: <20130403001257.252680@gmx.com> Hello Group This is part of the email I got: "As of your next billing date, you will notice that the Internet package you are subscribing to will change from High Speed DSL 25 / DSL ? haute vitesse 25 at $52.99 to High Speed DSL 25 Pro / DSL 25 Pro - ON - RED at $39.99. " I have also recently lost my server connection, because on the VDSL modem/router, does not have proper bridging. I am now looking for a router that can handle VDSL speed and has dd-wrt? Does anyone have any info on this topic. Have fun Abby ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan Witkowski Sent: 04/02/13 03:32 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Teksavvy lowers prices Got this today (April 02, 2013): April 02, 2013 We are writing to inform you of some really great changes to your Internet service from TekSavvy. We are lowering pricing and passing on the savings to all of our customers! How TekSavvy is that? As of your next billing date, you will notice that the Internet package you are subscribing to will change from High Speed DSL 12 at $41.99 to High Speed DSL 15 Pro at $32.99. No action is required on your part. As of March 27th, 2013 TekSavvy automatically made the updates to our system. Your next bill will reflect the new pricing. [ STAN:> I confirm that the PDF copy of the invoice they sent me shows the NEW $32.99 price as of March 31, 2013!!! Note that my original plan (High Speed DSL 12 at $41.99 with a 300GB cap) also, at that time (AND STILL NOW), included a no-charge-against-cap 6 hour window from 2AM - 8AM DAILY. (Anything downloaded between 2AM - 8AM was FREE, not part of the cap.) PING = 10 ms << CURRENT STATS Download Speed = 15.62 Mbps Upload Speed = 0.92 Mbps from: www.speedtest.net I can't actually remember the last time (if ever) a company boosted my service by 25 per cent while AT THE SAME TIME dropping the price by 25 per cent!! ] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 3 01:23:46 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 21:23:46 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy lowers prices In-Reply-To: <20130403001257.252680-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20130403001257.252680@gmx.com> Message-ID: <515B84A2.90208@ss.org> On 04/02/2013 08:12 PM, Maxcess wrote: > I have also recently lost my server connection, because on the VDSL > modem/router, does not have proper bridging. > > I am now looking for a router that can handle VDSL speed and has dd-wrt? > Does anyone have any info on this topic. Despite the new VDSL2 services being called that, Bell ****ed up the implementation using DSLAMs supporting a pre-standard version of VDSL2. The only way the a Modem can operate on the Bell VDSL2 Network (which is accessed in a wholesale model by all the other ISPs, including Teksavvy) is with modems that have firmware tailored to deal with these DSLAMs. Currently the only place to get those Modems is through Bell, hence why you have to rent your modem from Teksavvy or any other provider. Now I've played around with both the CellPipe and Sagemcom modems that Bell has deployed for this network. When using the LAN ports I've had no problems bridging transparently. I did have one issue while testing our MLPPP setup where a bad combination in the PPPoE was causing the session to be rejected by the Modem before passing it onto the ISP. A tcpdump showed this relatively clearly during the protocol negotiation. I'd like to know more about your "lost" server connection. How are you cabling through the modems? What services are you running? -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 3 01:48:05 2013 From: maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org (Maxcess) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 21:48:05 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy lowers prices Message-ID: <20130403014805.21400@gmx.com> Hi Scott Lost server connection was just a very general discription. I had achived a form of bridge set up on the Sagemcom with the help of Teksavvy. However, my router could not handle the high speed access and it to has had its firewall and nat limitations. It was fine for a very basic web server. However, I have been creating a larger more secure system and it is no longer usable. (hens - lost my server connection) I need a router that can handle the higher speeds and is DD-WRT for more internal customising. Or I set up a software switch in my server that contains my firewall and natting configurations. This second option is still a bit out of my own grasp at the moment, but I am still learning. Abby ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Sullivan Sent: 04/02/13 09:23 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Teksavvy lowers prices On 04/02/2013 08:12 PM, Maxcess wrote: > I have also recently lost my server connection, because on the VDSL > modem/router, does not have proper bridging. > > I am now looking for a router that can handle VDSL speed and has dd-wrt? > Does anyone have any info on this topic. Despite the new VDSL2 services being called that, Bell ****ed up the implementation using DSLAMs supporting a pre-standard version of VDSL2. The only way the a Modem can operate on the Bell VDSL2 Network (which is accessed in a wholesale model by all the other ISPs, including Teksavvy) is with modems that have firmware tailored to deal with these DSLAMs. Currently the only place to get those Modems is through Bell, hence why you have to rent your modem from Teksavvy or any other provider. Now I've played around with both the CellPipe and Sagemcom modems that Bell has deployed for this network. When using the LAN ports I've had no problems bridging transparently. I did have one issue while testing our MLPPP setup where a bad combination in the PPPoE was causing the session to be rejected by the Modem before passing it onto the ISP. A tcpdump showed this relatively clearly during the protocol negotiation. I'd like to know more about your "lost" server connection. How are you cabling through the modems? What services are you running? -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 3 13:11:29 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 09:11:29 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy lowers prices In-Reply-To: <20130403001257.252680-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20130403001257.252680@gmx.com> Message-ID: <20130403131129.GG21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 08:12:57PM -0400, Maxcess wrote: > Hello Group > > This is part of the email I got: > "As of your next billing date, you will notice that the Internet package you are subscribing to will change from High Speed DSL 25 / DSL ? haute vitesse 25 at $52.99 to High Speed DSL 25 Pro / DSL 25 Pro - ON - RED at $39.99. " > > I have also recently lost my server connection, because on the VDSL modem/router, does not have proper bridging. > > I am now looking for a router that can handle VDSL speed and has dd-wrt? Does anyone have any info on this topic. Mine is working fine. I have the white VDSL2 modem, which I hit factory reset on, disabled HPNA and Wifi, plugged my DIR-825 (rev B1) into switch port 1, and configured PPPoE on the DIR-825, and it always works great. Never had any issue getting the maximum speed. I know both dd-wrt and openwrt are available, although I keep not getting around to upgrading the firmware. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 3 23:01:34 2013 From: maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org (Maxcess) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 19:01:34 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy lowers prices Message-ID: <20130403230134.21430@gmx.com> Hello Lennart Thank you for your input as well. As a result, I found several routers that may do what I need. Its just that the router I was using was available fast at the time and its now garbage. Abby ----- Original Message ----- From: Lennart Sorensen Sent: 04/03/13 09:11 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Teksavvy lowers prices On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 08:12:57PM -0400, Maxcess wrote: > Hello Group > > This is part of the email I got: > "As of your next billing date, you will notice that the Internet package you are subscribing to will change from High Speed DSL 25 / DSL ? haute vitesse 25 at $52.99 to High Speed DSL 25 Pro / DSL 25 Pro - ON - RED at $39.99. " > > I have also recently lost my server connection, because on the VDSL modem/router, does not have proper bridging. > > I am now looking for a router that can handle VDSL speed and has dd-wrt? Does anyone have any info on this topic. Mine is working fine. I have the white VDSL2 modem, which I hit factory reset on, disabled HPNA and Wifi, plugged my DIR-825 (rev B1) into switch port 1, and configured PPPoE on the DIR-825, and it always works great. Never had any issue getting the maximum speed. I know both dd-wrt and openwrt are available, although I keep not getting around to upgrading the firmware. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 3 23:08:04 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 19:08:04 -0400 Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. Message-ID: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> I picked up a 2 TB external USB drive for backup use today. I noticed a few 3 TB drives were available. So here are my questions. I think I know the answers, but I've done stuff like that before, So to save myself potential embaressment, I want to confirm... 1) I know that "legacy-booting" linux only works up to 2.1 TB. Can I make multiple partions? E.g. boot from a 250 meg partition, and have the rest of a large drive mounted as one or more partitions? This is a throwback to the old days of having the boot partition entirely within the first 1024 cylinders. 2) For non-boot usage (e.g. external USB drives), I don't think that 2.1 TB should be a problem. I use ReiserFS, which can handle up to a 16 TB partion. Is that correct? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 4 00:01:36 2013 From: anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Verevkin) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 20:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: <20130403230804.GA2099-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: The biggest problem with ++2 TB drives is that MBR partition table does not support partition sizes of more than 2TB. I am not sure how big you can go with your total disk size, but I believe you can still have multiple partitions of 2TB each (obviously 4 partitions max, but maybe there is another smaller limit for total disk size as well). If you want partitions larger than 2TB you need to set up GPT partition table and parted is your tool here. However GRUB v1 (0.9x) lacks support for GPT. They say there is a patch. But your best bet would be GRUB v2 (1.9x). Also, and it is true not just for the 3TB drives, for it started earlier - they now make disk sectors of 4k size, not 512b. And if you look at your old partition table loolking at sectors not cylinders (fdisk -u) you will see that your first partition starts on the 63rd 512-byte sector. That is somewhere in the middle of a 4k sector. And so all the 4k blocks of that partition would be aligned to the middle of a 4k sector of the drive, thus almost doubling the amount of reads and writes to the drive. What you want to do is to check that the beginning of your partitions when shown as a 512-byte number (fdisk -u) would be a number that divides by 8. The new default of 2048-th sector for the first partition is just fine. Look at your other partitions as well. Regards, Anthony ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Walter Dnes" > To: "Toronto Linux Users Group" > Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2013 7:08:04 PM > Subject: [TLUG]: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. > > I picked up a 2 TB external USB drive for backup use today. I > noticed > a few 3 TB drives were available. So here are my questions. I think > I > know the answers, but I've done stuff like that before, So to save > myself potential embaressment, I want to confirm... > > 1) I know that "legacy-booting" linux only works up to 2.1 TB. Can I > make multiple partions? E.g. boot from a 250 meg partition, and have > the rest of a large drive mounted as one or more partitions? This is > a > throwback to the old days of having the boot partition entirely > within > the first 1024 cylinders. > > 2) For non-boot usage (e.g. external USB drives), I don't think that > 2.1 > TB should be a problem. I use ReiserFS, which can handle up to a 16 > TB > partion. Is that correct? > > -- > Walter Dnes > I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 4 01:14:21 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 21:14:21 -0400 Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: <20130403230804.GA2099-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Walter, > > 2) For non-boot usage (e.g. external USB drives), I don't think that 2.1 > TB should be a problem. I use ReiserFS, which can handle up to a 16 TB > partion. Is that correct? > Hmm, I am just curious, why ReiserFS? > -- William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 4 01:15:03 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 21:15:03 -0400 Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130404011503.GA2377@waltdnes.org> Thanks. Stuff to think about there, And I will check the sector alignment on the backup drive. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 4 03:44:00 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 23:44:00 -0400 Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130404034400.GA2963@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 09:14:21PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote > Walter, > > > > 2) For non-boot usage (e.g. external USB drives), I don't think that 2.1 > > TB should be a problem. I use ReiserFS, which can handle up to a 16 TB > > partion. Is that correct? > > > Hmm, I am just curious, why ReiserFS? As they say in Star Wars, in a nearby place, a long time ago, the only linux filesystem choices for home use were ext2fs and ReiserFS. Ext2fs was bad for recovering from hard crashes and lockups. ReiserFS has never lost me any data. Since then other filesystems have come and gone. ReiserFS still works. Why rock the boat? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 4 03:49:50 2013 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 20:49:50 -0700 Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: I wondered the same. I've heard some bad things about reiserfs on large filesystems. On Apr 3, 2013 6:15 PM, "William Muriithi" wrote: > Walter, > > > > 2) For non-boot usage (e.g. external USB drives), I don't think that 2.1 > > TB should be a problem. I use ReiserFS, which can handle up to a 16 TB > > partion. Is that correct? > > > Hmm, I am just curious, why ReiserFS? > > -- > William > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 4 09:47:21 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 05:47:21 -0400 Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: <20130403230804.GA2099-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130404094721.GA13693@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 07:08:04PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I picked up a 2 TB external USB drive for backup use today. I noticed > a few 3 TB drives were available. So here are my questions. I think I > know the answers, but I've done stuff like that before, So to save > myself potential embaressment, I want to confirm... > > 1) I know that "legacy-booting" linux only works up to 2.1 TB. Can I > make multiple partions? E.g. boot from a 250 meg partition, and have > the rest of a large drive mounted as one or more partitions? This is a > throwback to the old days of having the boot partition entirely within > the first 1024 cylinders. Partitioning 2TB+ disk, you need to use GPT format. 'fdisk' will refuse to touch it. I use 'gdisk'. However, I wasn't able to boot from 3TB, may be it was BIOS problem. Anyways, I ended up using 256MB USB flash drive as boot partition. > > 2) For non-boot usage (e.g. external USB drives), I don't think that 2.1 > TB should be a problem. I use ReiserFS, which can handle up to a 16 TB > partion. Is that correct? Yes, you can use the entire disk without any partition. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 4 13:18:21 2013 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 09:18:21 -0400 Subject: good deal for Nexus 7 today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Michael Hill wrote: > Hugh, if you're happy with Ubuntu on the small screen, it installs > easily and works well. ...but then quite often, almost always after a night of compiling, it gets into a state where a tap is treated as hover, giving you a tooltip instead of switching or launching apps or pulling down windows. The only way out of this condition seems to be resetting the tablet. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 4 13:53:24 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 09:53:24 -0400 Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: <20130403230804.GA2099-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130404135324.GH21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 07:08:04PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I picked up a 2 TB external USB drive for backup use today. I noticed > a few 3 TB drives were available. So here are my questions. I think I > know the answers, but I've done stuff like that before, So to save > myself potential embaressment, I want to confirm... > > 1) I know that "legacy-booting" linux only works up to 2.1 TB. Can I > make multiple partions? E.g. boot from a 250 meg partition, and have > the rest of a large drive mounted as one or more partitions? This is a > throwback to the old days of having the boot partition entirely within > the first 1024 cylinders. I have booted linux of a drive larger than 2TB for years. Grub2 supports that just fine. Use a GPT partition table with an MBR compatibility partition entry. Having a boot partition is also required so grub has somewhere to embed. Windows can't boot from a drive over 2TB unless it is 64bit windows and the system uses EFI instead of BIOS. > 2) For non-boot usage (e.g. external USB drives), I don't think that 2.1 > TB should be a problem. I use ReiserFS, which can handle up to a 16 TB > partion. Is that correct? I didn't think anyone still used that reiserfs junk. I don't need my filesystem to eat my data on a whim. Once was enough. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 4 13:55:09 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 09:55:09 -0400 Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: <20130404034400.GA2963-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> <20130404034400.GA2963@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130404135509.GI21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 11:44:00PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > As they say in Star Wars, in a nearby place, a long time ago, the only > linux filesystem choices for home use were ext2fs and ReiserFS. Ext2fs > was bad for recovering from hard crashes and lockups. ReiserFS has > never lost me any data. Since then other filesystems have come and > gone. ReiserFS still works. Why rock the boat? Reiserfs has lost vastly more data than ext2 ever will. At least ext2 could be repaired when something went wrong, which wasn't true of reiserfs. Once you understand the design of reiserfs, you won't want to trust any data to it anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 4 20:06:10 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 16:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: <20130404135324.GH21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> <20130404135324.GH21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I don't remember all the lore to do with >2 TB disks. I'm formatting one now as a backup for a MythTV hoard. I think that the >2TB disks show sector sizes of 4k now. The previous generation of <=2G drives often had 4K sectors but lied to the computer, saying that they had 512 sectors. This kept dumb old systems (Windows and very old Linux) working but it made Linux make foolish decisions. Eventually, Linux changed to take this into account. Foolish folks said Linux couldn't handle 4K sectors but in fact what it could not handle was lying. I don't know if dumb old BIOSes can boot from disks with 4k sectors. I'm using gparted for formatting. The disk came with an NTFS partition (and Windows backup software). So I rewrote the partition table. I was offered "msdos", meaning the old partition mechanism, so I guess that it works OK with 3TB disks if the sectors are 4k. I chose GPT. I'm using ext3 because my old systems might not have solid ext4 (superstition, not fact). It is likely that ext2 is just as good for my application as ext3. fsck on a 3TB disk does take a while. What is the best filesystem for backing up large files? It is unfortunate that gparted can't be told to reduce the number of inodes when it is creating a filesystem. When you are backing up 1.2G files (1 hour of TV), the normal proportion of inodes is a waste. It gave me 183148544! /usr/sbin/mkfs.ext3 -T largefile4 -L Arthur /dev/sdi1 gave me 715424. I toyed with the idea of devoting a few gigs to make the backup drive bootable (with a normal desktop distro) but it is too much bother for a "just in case". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 4 21:22:51 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 17:22:51 -0400 Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> <20130404135324.GH21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130404212251.GJ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 04:06:10PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I don't remember all the lore to do with >2 TB disks. > > I'm formatting one now as a backup for a MythTV hoard. > > I think that the >2TB disks show sector sizes of 4k now. Some external drives use 4k sectors. Drives for internal use rarely do, since many systems get confused and can't boot from them. > The previous generation of <=2G drives often had 4K sectors but lied > to the computer, saying that they had 512 sectors. This kept dumb old > systems (Windows and very old Linux) working but it made Linux make > foolish decisions. Eventually, Linux changed to take this into > account. Foolish folks said Linux couldn't handle 4K sectors but > in fact what it could not handle was lying. > > I don't know if dumb old BIOSes can boot from disks with 4k sectors. Not usually. > I'm using gparted for formatting. The disk came with an NTFS > partition (and Windows backup software). So I rewrote the partition > table. I was offered "msdos", meaning the old partition mechanism, so > I guess that it works OK with 3TB disks if the sectors are 4k. I > chose GPT. GPT is generally a good choice, and doesn't care how big the disk is. > I'm using ext3 because my old systems might not have solid ext4 > (superstition, not fact). It is likely that ext2 is just as good for > my application as ext3. fsck on a 3TB disk does take a while. > What is the best filesystem for backing up large files? ext4 looks pretty good. I have switch most of my setups to it (which is easily done in place with some tune2fs magic and an fsck). > It is unfortunate that gparted can't be told to reduce the number of > inodes when it is creating a filesystem. When you are backing up 1.2G > files (1 hour of TV), the normal proportion of inodes is a waste. It > gave me 183148544! > /usr/sbin/mkfs.ext3 -T largefile4 -L Arthur /dev/sdi1 > gave me 715424. > > I toyed with the idea of devoting a few gigs to make the backup drive > bootable (with a normal desktop distro) but it is too much bother for > a "just in case". -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 5 15:47:13 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 11:47:13 -0400 Subject: [OT] Help, do you have an old router to spare In-Reply-To: References: <20130405132845.GA20670@watson-wilson.ca> <515EE569.1050708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130405154713.GA24478@watson-wilson.ca> I also have a TP-Link TD-W8950ND that I could loan to you a few days. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 6 09:50:18 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 05:50:18 -0400 Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: <20130404135324.GH21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> <20130404135324.GH21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130406095018.GA4806@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 09:53:24AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 07:08:04PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > 2) For non-boot usage (e.g. external USB drives), I don't think that 2.1 > > TB should be a problem. I use ReiserFS, which can handle up to a 16 TB > > partion. Is that correct? > > I didn't think anyone still used that reiserfs junk. I don't need my > filesystem to eat my data on a whim. Once was enough. Ahemmm... https://lwn.net/Articles/521022/ > Posted Oct 25, 2012 0:06 UTC (Thu) by Kioob (subscriber, #56482) > [Link] Well <> ? Since 8 days, I had 5 servers (over > ~200) with data corruption on ext4 partitions (over LVM, over Xen > blockfront/blockback, over DRBD, over LVM). Specialy with partitions > mounted with defaults,noatime,nodev,nosuid,noexec,data=ordered > (MySQL InnoDB data). > > I was thinking about a problem with DRBD, then I saw this > news... so... I don't know. Is it really the only way to trigger > that problem ? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 6 18:03:22 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 14:03:22 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare Message-ID: I asked Teksavvy to hook me up to their 15MB service almost three weeks ago. They said that in order to complete this, they would need to send out a tech to install a splitter between 12 and 9 pm, April 2. April 2 came, I waited, no show. Called the next day, they apologized but said we would need to wait another 3 days and still hang at home for nine hours. Okay, we wait. Second time, no show. Now they are saying we need to wait til Tuesday, and again hang out from 12 to 9 pm. That ain't gonna happen. Anyone know something about Teksavvy that can explain why they are being so negligent? It's like they've abandoned all effort at actually doing anything, and are now focusing on just obtaining more market share. Also, since my wife works at Bell, we are thinking of getting their internet service since we can probably get a break on the price. Any thoughts? I know there a lot of emotional and political reasons to avoid Bell, but what are the likely technical pitfalls? Anyway, just feel totally lost at this point. I can't believe Teksavvy has declined so precipitously in terms of their customer care. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 6 18:07:40 2013 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 14:07:40 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: TekSavvy has no techs. Those tech visits are Bell techs. TekSavvy has no leverage with Bell to ensure that Bell techs actually do their job. This is just one of many problems with how the telecom industry in Canada is setup and regulated. Believe me, if TekSavvy could actually do anything to ensure that techs did visit when they were supposed to, they would. On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I asked Teksavvy to hook me up to their 15MB service almost three weeks > ago. > > They said that in order to complete this, they would need to send out a > tech to install a splitter between 12 and 9 pm, April 2. April 2 came, I > waited, no show. Called the next day, they apologized but said we would > need to wait another 3 days and still hang at home for nine hours. Okay, we > wait. Second time, no show. > > Now they are saying we need to wait til Tuesday, and again hang out from > 12 to 9 pm. That ain't gonna happen. > > Anyone know something about Teksavvy that can explain why they are being > so negligent? It's like they've abandoned all effort at actually doing > anything, and are now focusing on just obtaining more market share. > > Also, since my wife works at Bell, we are thinking of getting their > internet service since we can probably get a break on the price. Any > thoughts? I know there a lot of emotional and political reasons to avoid > Bell, but what are the likely technical pitfalls? > > Anyway, just feel totally lost at this point. I can't believe Teksavvy has > declined so precipitously in terms of their customer care. > > -- > Thomas Milne > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 6 18:35:37 2013 From: maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org (Maxcess) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2013 14:35:37 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare Message-ID: <20130406183538.125310@gmx.com> Scott sounds correct. However, I had dsl installed and Teksavvy had a different company come and put an two line box in the room where our modem would be. That could also be called a splitter. The outside service was great and knew their job. No issues with time. It was Bell that was incompetent with my hook up. Bell wanted to charge me for coming in and fixing the outside service mistake. It turned out that it was the Bell tech that F.. UP at the bell box. I recommend that you encourage Teksavvy to send a different service to do your hook up for you. Abby ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Allen Sent: 04/06/13 02:25 PM To: TLUG Mail List Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Teksavvy Nightmare On 6 April 2013 14:07, Michael MacLeod wrote: > TekSavvy has no techs. Those tech visits are Bell techs. Thomas said that the tech had to come to install a splitter. If that's the case, then it's probably a cable Internet install. That would mean Rogers tech, not a Bell techs. It's the same situation, though. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 6 18:25:49 2013 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 14:25:49 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6 April 2013 14:07, Michael MacLeod wrote: > TekSavvy has no techs. Those tech visits are Bell techs. Thomas said that the tech had to come to install a splitter. If that's the case, then it's probably a cable Internet install. That would mean Rogers tech, not a Bell techs. It's the same situation, though. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 6 19:10:41 2013 From: williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Weaver) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 15:10:41 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <20130406183538.125310-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20130406183538.125310@gmx.com> Message-ID: Yea it's entirely dependent on where you live. For my cable it was Rodgers and the guy was in and out in about 3 minutes. I had the modem already hooked up so all he did was run the software and verify and he was gone. Will Weaver On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Maxcess wrote: > Scott sounds correct. > However, I had dsl installed and Teksavvy had a different company come and > put an two line box in the room where our modem would be. That could also > be called a splitter. The outside service was great and knew their job. No > issues with time. It was Bell that was incompetent with my hook up. Bell > wanted to charge me for coming in and fixing the outside service mistake. > It turned out that it was the Bell tech that F.. UP at the bell box. > > I recommend that you encourage Teksavvy to send a different service to do > your hook up for you. > > Abby > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Scott Allen > > Sent: 04/06/13 02:25 PM > > To: TLUG Mail List > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Teksavvy Nightmare > > > On 6 April 2013 14:07, Michael MacLeod wrote: > > TekSavvy has no techs. Those tech visits are Bell techs. > > Thomas said that the tech had to come to install a splitter. If that's > the case, then it's probably a cable Internet install. That would mean > Rogers tech, not a Bell techs. It's the same situation, though. > > -- > Scott > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 6 22:53:19 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 18:53:19 -0400 Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> <20130404135324.GH21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130406225319.GA6216@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 04:06:10PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I toyed with the idea of devoting a few gigs to make the backup drive > bootable (with a normal desktop distro) but it is too much bother for > a "just in case". Same here. USB flash drive or CD/DVD-RW is good enough for that. My current backup is multiple drive BTRFS filesystem. It's slooow, compared to mdadm-raid0/ext4 combination. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 7 15:59:48 2013 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 11:59:48 -0400 Subject: Port Forwarding with PPTP vpn connection on tomato router Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I was wondering if anyone could help solve a problem I'm having with port forwarding on a tomato router set up to connect to a nas via rsync and another computer via ssh. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's where I am at now: Tomato v1.28.0000 MIPSR2-106 K26 USB Mega-VPN root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# ip route show 10.3.12.1 dev ppp0 proto kernel scope link src 173.234.144.211 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 scope link 173.234.144.194 via 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 192.168.1.0/24 dev br0 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.1.1 207.210.24.0/22 dev vlan2 proto kernel scope link src 207.210.24.187 127.0.0.0/8 dev lo scope link default dev ppp0 scope link default via 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# iptables -L Chain INPUT (policy DROP) target prot opt source destination ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- 0.0.0.0/24 anywhere DROP all -- anywhere wan-ip.rjonasz.org DROP all -- anywhere anywhere state INVALID ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state RELATED,ESTABLISHED shlimit tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:ssh state NEW ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp spt:bootps dpt:bootpc ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:ssh Chain FORWARD (policy DROP) target prot opt source destination TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU ACCEPT all -- 0.0.0.0/24 anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere 0.0.0.0/24 all -- anywhere anywhere account: network/netmask: 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0 name: lan ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere DROP all -- anywhere anywhere state INVALID TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state RELATED,ESTABLISHED wanin all -- anywhere anywhere wanout all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere ACCEPT all -- anywhere 0.0.0.0/24 Chain shlimit (1 references) target prot opt source destination all -- anywhere anywhere recent: SET name: shlimit side: source DROP all -- anywhere anywhere recent: UPDATE seconds: 60 hit_count: 4 name: shlimit side: source Chain wanin (1 references) target prot opt source destination ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere 192.168.1.11 tcp dpt:ssh ACCEPT udp -- anywhere 192.168.1.11 udp dpt:ssh ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org tcp dpt:rsync ACCEPT udp -- anywhere ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org udp dpt:rsync Chain wanout (1 references) target prot opt source destination root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# iptables -t nat -L Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination WANPREROUTING all -- anywhere wan-ip.rjonasz.org DROP all -- anywhere 192.168.1.0/24 Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination SNAT tcp -- 192.168.1.0/24 192.168.1.11 tcp dpt:ssh to:207.210.24.187 SNAT udp -- 192.168.1.0/24 192.168.1.11 udp dpt:ssh to:207.210.24.187 SNAT tcp -- 192.168.1.0/24 ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org tcp dpt:rsync to:207.210.24.187 SNAT udp -- 192.168.1.0/24 ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org udp dpt:rsync to:207.210.24.187 MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) target prot opt source destination Chain WANPREROUTING (1 references) target prot opt source destination DNAT icmp -- anywhere anywhere to:192.168.1.1 DNAT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:2222 to:192.168.1.11:22 DNAT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp dpt:2222 to:192.168.1.11:22 DNAT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:rsync to:192.168.1.8:873 DNAT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp dpt:rsync to:192.168.1.8:873 Thanks, Randy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 05:58:58 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 01:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <5161FB6B.5000507-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> Message-ID: | From: Scott Sullivan | On 04/07/2013 06:58 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: | > Actually, this is DSL and the splitter their referring to is actually a | > DSL filter installed at the Demarcation point to to filter out DSL on | > all the inside wiring. | | So, after the Demarcation point. From the NID you'll typically have a single | wire per phone line coming into the home. Somewhere between where the rest of | the home splits off from that connection and the NID is where the splitter | will be inserted. | | > http://csmedia.corning.com/CableSystems/images/dsl/cps-dtv2-0w-cn_a_zoom.jpg That's what I expected when I got a VDSL2 connection last year. But that's not what happened when the tech arrived. Instead, the splitter was installed in the room with the modem, way downstream of the demarc. I have no idea why they sent a tech. I don't know anything that he did that I couldn't do (and I'm not that handy). I've got this little "Corning ADSL/VDSL POTS splitter", just like the picture, dangling on my desk. And this annoying Cellpipe modem. I *still* need filters on all the other phones. That was something that I thought I would no longer need. In theory, that provide more points of failure. Surely if the splitter had been installed at the demac, I would not need these filters. But the tech would have either required me to move the modem to near the demac or would have needed to run a wire between the current modems position and the splitter-near-the-demarc, roughly the length of the house. BTW, my provider is Telnet Communications. They seem good but I have no way of comparing them with other providers. They don't offer TV and Bell won't deliver TV over a phoneline that a third-party ISP offers internet (doesn't affect me). I don't know how their prices compare. They don't advertise unlimited "bandwidth" (bytes/month), but they seem to not have a cap. I haven't tested this in any way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 01:32:02 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 21:32:02 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> Message-ID: On 04/07/2013 07:59 PM, Michael MacLeod wrote: > > All interesting info, but not really germane to the original > complaint. Whether it's a bell tech or a subcontractor, it's not a > TekSavvy tech. Fault lies with bell (or persons contacted to them). > Unbelievable logic... > On 2013-04-07 7:04 PM, "Scott Sullivan" > wrote: > > On 04/07/2013 06:58 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > > On 04/06/2013 02:25 PM, Scott Allen wrote: > > On 6 April 2013 14:07, Michael MacLeod > > wrote: > > TekSavvy has no techs. Those tech visits are Bell techs. > > > Thomas said that the tech had to come to install a > splitter. If that's > the case, then it's probably a cable Internet install. > That would mean > Rogers tech, not a Bell techs. It's the same situation, > though. > > > Actually, this is DSL and the splitter their referring to is > actually a > DSL filter installed at the Demarcation point to to filter out > DSL on > all the inside wiring. > > > So, after the Demarcation point. From the NID you'll typically > have a single wire per phone line coming into the home. Somewhere > between where the rest of the home splits off from that connection > and the NID is where the splitter will be inserted. > > http://csmedia.corning.com/CableSystems/images/dsl/cps-dtv2-0w-cn_a_zoom.jpg > > > Additional, it's not actually Bell Technicians doing this > work. Bell's > Techs handle bringing the DSL to the Demarcation Point. In > most homes > his is the little grey box outside called the NID (Network > Interface > Device). The Techs that come inside to handle and inside > wiring and the > installations of these DSL Filters/Splitters is a Third Party > Company > that Bell Contracts for this specific work. As far as I know > the only > use them for the Wholesale ISPs like TekSavvy. > > > > -- > Scott Sullivan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 15:47:36 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 11:47:36 -0400 Subject: Port Forwarding with PPTP vpn connection on tomato router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130408154736.GA24350@watson-wilson.ca> Don't kill yourself with manual iptables. There are some great front ends that make this much easier. Shorewall and fwbuilder are too excellent options. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 15:45:06 2013 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 11:45:06 -0400 Subject: Port Forwarding with PPTP vpn connection on tomato router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Tim, Tomato doesn't have iptables-save. But when I get home I'll post my iptables config file. Cheers, Randy Oscar Developer McMaster University 175 Longwood Road South, Suite 201A Hamilton ON L8P 0A1 905 525 9140 x27735 *There are too many gentlemen in England by five hundred* *--Robert Burnam 1549* On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Tim Tisdall wrote: > Okay, my knowledge of iptables is fairly limited... I was just looking at > the rules on one of my servers and noticed that when I did "iptables > --list" it said under INPUT "ACCEPT all -- anywhere > anywhere" but the actual rule was "-A INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT" which says to > accept all loopback traffic. So, your duplicate rules may not be > duplicates, it's just not displaying enough information (maybe). Are you > able to run "iptables-save"? That outputs the options you'd pass at the > command line to recreate your current rules. > > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Randy Jonasz wrote: > >> Hey Tim, >> >> The problem is that when I try to ssh to my computer from outside, the >> connection times out. I've tried connecting to my vpn ip and the ip my isp >> assigns me but both time out. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Randy >> >> >> >> Oscar Developer >> McMaster University >> 175 Longwood Road South, Suite 201A >> Hamilton ON L8P 0A1 >> 905 525 9140 x27735 >> >> *There are too many gentlemen in England by five hundred* >> *--Robert Burnam 1549* >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Tim Tisdall wrote: >> >>> Hey Randy.. What specifically is not working? We know what you've done >>> and what you're trying to do, but not what the problem is. >>> >>> At first glance, though, you should probably eliminate all those >>> duplicate entries to at least make it easier to wade through. >>> >>> -Tim >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Randy Jonasz wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>> I was wondering if anyone could help solve a problem I'm having with >>>> port forwarding on a tomato router set up to connect to a nas via rsync and >>>> another computer via ssh. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's >>>> where I am at now: >>>> >>>> Tomato v1.28.0000 MIPSR2-106 K26 USB Mega-VPN >>>> root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# ip route show >>>> 10.3.12.1 dev ppp0 proto kernel scope link src 173.234.144.211 >>>> 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 scope link >>>> 173.234.144.194 via 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 >>>> 192.168.1.0/24 dev br0 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.1.1 >>>> 207.210.24.0/22 dev vlan2 proto kernel scope link src >>>> 207.210.24.187 >>>> 127.0.0.0/8 dev lo scope link >>>> default dev ppp0 scope link >>>> default via 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 >>>> root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# iptables -L >>>> Chain INPUT (policy DROP) >>>> target prot opt source destination >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> ACCEPT all -- 0.0.0.0/24 anywhere >>>> DROP all -- anywhere wan-ip.rjonasz.org >>>> DROP all -- anywhere anywhere state >>>> INVALID >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state >>>> RELATED,ESTABLISHED >>>> shlimit tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>>> dpt:ssh state NEW >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> ACCEPT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp >>>> spt:bootps dpt:bootpc >>>> ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>>> dpt:ssh >>>> >>>> Chain FORWARD (policy DROP) >>>> target prot opt source destination >>>> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>>> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>>> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>>> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>>> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >>>> ACCEPT all -- 0.0.0.0/24 anywhere >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere 0.0.0.0/24 >>>> all -- anywhere anywhere account: >>>> network/netmask: 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0 name: lan >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> DROP all -- anywhere anywhere state >>>> INVALID >>>> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>>> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state >>>> RELATED,ESTABLISHED >>>> wanin all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> wanout all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> >>>> Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) >>>> target prot opt source destination >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere 0.0.0.0/24 >>>> >>>> Chain shlimit (1 references) >>>> target prot opt source destination >>>> all -- anywhere anywhere recent: >>>> SET name: shlimit side: source >>>> DROP all -- anywhere anywhere recent: >>>> UPDATE seconds: 60 hit_count: 4 name: shlimit side: source >>>> >>>> Chain wanin (1 references) >>>> target prot opt source destination >>>> ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere 192.168.1.11 tcp >>>> dpt:ssh >>>> ACCEPT udp -- anywhere 192.168.1.11 udp >>>> dpt:ssh >>>> ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.orgtcp dpt:rsync >>>> ACCEPT udp -- anywhere ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.orgudp dpt:rsync >>>> >>>> Chain wanout (1 references) >>>> target prot opt source destination >>>> root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# iptables -t nat -L >>>> Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT) >>>> target prot opt source destination >>>> WANPREROUTING all -- anywhere wan-ip.rjonasz.org >>>> DROP all -- anywhere 192.168.1.0/24 >>>> >>>> Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT) >>>> target prot opt source destination >>>> SNAT tcp -- 192.168.1.0/24 192.168.1.11 tcp >>>> dpt:ssh to:207.210.24.187 >>>> SNAT udp -- 192.168.1.0/24 192.168.1.11 udp >>>> dpt:ssh to:207.210.24.187 >>>> SNAT tcp -- 192.168.1.0/24 ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.orgtcp dpt:rsync to:207.210.24.187 >>>> SNAT udp -- 192.168.1.0/24 ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.orgudp dpt:rsync to:207.210.24.187 >>>> MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere >>>> >>>> Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) >>>> target prot opt source destination >>>> >>>> Chain WANPREROUTING (1 references) >>>> target prot opt source destination >>>> DNAT icmp -- anywhere anywhere >>>> to:192.168.1.1 >>>> DNAT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>>> dpt:2222 to:192.168.1.11:22 >>>> DNAT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp >>>> dpt:2222 to:192.168.1.11:22 >>>> DNAT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>>> dpt:rsync to:192.168.1.8:873 >>>> DNAT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp >>>> dpt:rsync to:192.168.1.8:873 >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Randy >>>> >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 16:14:18 2013 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 09:14:18 -0700 Subject: Iptables REJECT taking 3 seconds Message-ID: I've noticed that even when a rule exists to REJECT outgoing connections, it still takes about 3 seconds to process. While DROP rules should depend on the timeout of the connecting app, shouldn't anything that is REJECT'ed be immediately blocked and end the connection attempt? # iptables -A OUTPUT -m state --state INVALID -j REJECT # date; telnet 10.1.1.1 80; date Mon Apr 8 09:08:40 PDT 2013 Trying 10.1.1.1... telnet: connect to address 10.1.1.1: Connection refused Mon Apr 8 09:08:43 PDT 2013 It always seems to be a solid 3 seconds. I don't remember this being the normal behaviour previously. Perhaps it's something that is configured somewhere? RHEL-5.9 -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA "Computers don't make mistakes. They can, however, execute those provided to them very quickly" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 11:59:33 2013 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 07:59:33 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> Message-ID: On 8 April 2013 01:58, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I *still* need filters on all the other phones. That was something > that I thought I would no longer need. In theory, that provide more > points of failure. Surely if the splitter had been installed at the > demac, I would not need these filters. But the tech would have either > required me to move the modem to near the demac or would have needed > to run a wire between the current modems position and the > splitter-near-the-demarc, roughly the length of the house. Getting a bit off the original topic, but... Running a new wire likely would not be necessary to do what you want. Unless your residence is really old, your existing phone cables probably contain one or more unused pairs. You could put a single filter at the demarc point, for all the phones, and then use one of the existing spare pairs to send the unfiltered signal to the jack that the modem is attached to. If the jack that you want to connect the modem to is in series, downstream from one or more other jacks, you may also have to go into those jacks to connect the spare pair, but it can still be done. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 12:57:46 2013 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 08:57:46 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <5162B7CE.6040204-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> <5162B7CE.6040204@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 8 April 2013 08:27, James Knott wrote: > Scott Allen wrote: >> I again bought my modem but a tech visit was required to >> install a splitter and test the line, even though I could have done it >> myself. > > Not quite. The tech should have measured the signal level and adjusted as > necessary, as part of the job. I said that I *could* have done it myself, not that I was *allowed* to do it myself. Not that they would, but Rogers could change their policy to allow self installation and then charge for tech visits only if the customer wanted a line and/or splitter installed or to get things working if the customer screwed up (the way it's commonly allowed for DSL). In my case, as I suspect most are, the tech just installed a splitter. No signal level adjustment was necessary. If adjusting the signal level is necessary, in most cases that's done using an amplifier on the customer's premises; something I could also do myself. I already have an unused adjustable gain cable amplifier/splitter. As for measuring the level, you can use the modem's web interface to do this. Again, though, Rogers would probably never change their policy to allow this, due to complaints and delays that would result from problems, even thought they were the customer's fault. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 13:15:36 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 09:15:36 -0400 Subject: Port Forwarding with PPTP vpn connection on tomato router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Randy.. What specifically is not working? We know what you've done and what you're trying to do, but not what the problem is. At first glance, though, you should probably eliminate all those duplicate entries to at least make it easier to wade through. -Tim On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Randy Jonasz wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I was wondering if anyone could help solve a problem I'm having with port > forwarding on a tomato router set up to connect to a nas via rsync and > another computer via ssh. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's > where I am at now: > > Tomato v1.28.0000 MIPSR2-106 K26 USB Mega-VPN > root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# ip route show > 10.3.12.1 dev ppp0 proto kernel scope link src 173.234.144.211 > 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 scope link > 173.234.144.194 via 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 > 192.168.1.0/24 dev br0 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.1.1 > 207.210.24.0/22 dev vlan2 proto kernel scope link src 207.210.24.187 > 127.0.0.0/8 dev lo scope link > default dev ppp0 scope link > default via 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 > root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# iptables -L > Chain INPUT (policy DROP) > target prot opt source destination > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > ACCEPT all -- 0.0.0.0/24 anywhere > DROP all -- anywhere wan-ip.rjonasz.org > DROP all -- anywhere anywhere state INVALID > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state > RELATED,ESTABLISHED > shlimit tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:ssh > state NEW > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > ACCEPT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp > spt:bootps dpt:bootpc > ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:ssh > > Chain FORWARD (policy DROP) > target prot opt source destination > TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp > flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp > flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp > flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp > flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU > ACCEPT all -- 0.0.0.0/24 anywhere > ACCEPT all -- anywhere 0.0.0.0/24 > all -- anywhere anywhere account: > network/netmask: 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0 name: lan > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > DROP all -- anywhere anywhere state INVALID > TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp > flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state > RELATED,ESTABLISHED > wanin all -- anywhere anywhere > wanout all -- anywhere anywhere > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > > Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) > target prot opt source destination > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere > ACCEPT all -- anywhere 0.0.0.0/24 > > Chain shlimit (1 references) > target prot opt source destination > all -- anywhere anywhere recent: SET > name: shlimit side: source > DROP all -- anywhere anywhere recent: > UPDATE seconds: 60 hit_count: 4 name: shlimit side: source > > Chain wanin (1 references) > target prot opt source destination > ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere 192.168.1.11 tcp dpt:ssh > ACCEPT udp -- anywhere 192.168.1.11 udp dpt:ssh > ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org tcp > dpt:rsync > ACCEPT udp -- anywhere ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org udp > dpt:rsync > > Chain wanout (1 references) > target prot opt source destination > root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# iptables -t nat -L > Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT) > target prot opt source destination > WANPREROUTING all -- anywhere wan-ip.rjonasz.org > DROP all -- anywhere 192.168.1.0/24 > > Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT) > target prot opt source destination > SNAT tcp -- 192.168.1.0/24 192.168.1.11 tcp dpt:ssh > to:207.210.24.187 > SNAT udp -- 192.168.1.0/24 192.168.1.11 udp dpt:ssh > to:207.210.24.187 > SNAT tcp -- 192.168.1.0/24 ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org tcp > dpt:rsync to:207.210.24.187 > SNAT udp -- 192.168.1.0/24 ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org udp > dpt:rsync to:207.210.24.187 > MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere > MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere > MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere > MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere > > Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) > target prot opt source destination > > Chain WANPREROUTING (1 references) > target prot opt source destination > DNAT icmp -- anywhere anywhere > to:192.168.1.1 > DNAT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:2222 > to:192.168.1.11:22 > DNAT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp dpt:2222 > to:192.168.1.11:22 > DNAT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:rsync > to:192.168.1.8:873 > DNAT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp dpt:rsync > to:192.168.1.8:873 > > Thanks, > > Randy > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 15:00:11 2013 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 11:00:11 -0400 Subject: Port Forwarding with PPTP vpn connection on tomato router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Tim, The problem is that when I try to ssh to my computer from outside, the connection times out. I've tried connecting to my vpn ip and the ip my isp assigns me but both time out. Thanks! Randy Oscar Developer McMaster University 175 Longwood Road South, Suite 201A Hamilton ON L8P 0A1 905 525 9140 x27735 *There are too many gentlemen in England by five hundred* *--Robert Burnam 1549* On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Tim Tisdall wrote: > Hey Randy.. What specifically is not working? We know what you've done > and what you're trying to do, but not what the problem is. > > At first glance, though, you should probably eliminate all those duplicate > entries to at least make it easier to wade through. > > -Tim > > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Randy Jonasz wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I was wondering if anyone could help solve a problem I'm having with port >> forwarding on a tomato router set up to connect to a nas via rsync and >> another computer via ssh. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's >> where I am at now: >> >> Tomato v1.28.0000 MIPSR2-106 K26 USB Mega-VPN >> root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# ip route show >> 10.3.12.1 dev ppp0 proto kernel scope link src 173.234.144.211 >> 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 scope link >> 173.234.144.194 via 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 >> 192.168.1.0/24 dev br0 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.1.1 >> 207.210.24.0/22 dev vlan2 proto kernel scope link src 207.210.24.187 >> 127.0.0.0/8 dev lo scope link >> default dev ppp0 scope link >> default via 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 >> root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# iptables -L >> Chain INPUT (policy DROP) >> target prot opt source destination >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> ACCEPT all -- 0.0.0.0/24 anywhere >> DROP all -- anywhere wan-ip.rjonasz.org >> DROP all -- anywhere anywhere state >> INVALID >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state >> RELATED,ESTABLISHED >> shlimit tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:ssh >> state NEW >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> ACCEPT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp >> spt:bootps dpt:bootpc >> ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:ssh >> >> Chain FORWARD (policy DROP) >> target prot opt source destination >> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >> ACCEPT all -- 0.0.0.0/24 anywhere >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere 0.0.0.0/24 >> all -- anywhere anywhere account: >> network/netmask: 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0 name: lan >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> DROP all -- anywhere anywhere state >> INVALID >> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state >> RELATED,ESTABLISHED >> wanin all -- anywhere anywhere >> wanout all -- anywhere anywhere >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> >> Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) >> target prot opt source destination >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >> ACCEPT all -- anywhere 0.0.0.0/24 >> >> Chain shlimit (1 references) >> target prot opt source destination >> all -- anywhere anywhere recent: SET >> name: shlimit side: source >> DROP all -- anywhere anywhere recent: >> UPDATE seconds: 60 hit_count: 4 name: shlimit side: source >> >> Chain wanin (1 references) >> target prot opt source destination >> ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere 192.168.1.11 tcp dpt:ssh >> ACCEPT udp -- anywhere 192.168.1.11 udp dpt:ssh >> ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org tcp >> dpt:rsync >> ACCEPT udp -- anywhere ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org udp >> dpt:rsync >> >> Chain wanout (1 references) >> target prot opt source destination >> root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# iptables -t nat -L >> Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT) >> target prot opt source destination >> WANPREROUTING all -- anywhere wan-ip.rjonasz.org >> DROP all -- anywhere 192.168.1.0/24 >> >> Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT) >> target prot opt source destination >> SNAT tcp -- 192.168.1.0/24 192.168.1.11 tcp dpt:ssh >> to:207.210.24.187 >> SNAT udp -- 192.168.1.0/24 192.168.1.11 udp dpt:ssh >> to:207.210.24.187 >> SNAT tcp -- 192.168.1.0/24 ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org tcp >> dpt:rsync to:207.210.24.187 >> SNAT udp -- 192.168.1.0/24 ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org udp >> dpt:rsync to:207.210.24.187 >> MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere >> MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere >> MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere >> MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere >> >> Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) >> target prot opt source destination >> >> Chain WANPREROUTING (1 references) >> target prot opt source destination >> DNAT icmp -- anywhere anywhere >> to:192.168.1.1 >> DNAT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:2222 >> to:192.168.1.11:22 >> DNAT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp dpt:2222 >> to:192.168.1.11:22 >> DNAT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >> dpt:rsync to:192.168.1.8:873 >> DNAT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp >> dpt:rsync to:192.168.1.8:873 >> >> Thanks, >> >> Randy >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 15:29:49 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 11:29:49 -0400 Subject: Port Forwarding with PPTP vpn connection on tomato router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Okay, my knowledge of iptables is fairly limited... I was just looking at the rules on one of my servers and noticed that when I did "iptables --list" it said under INPUT "ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere" but the actual rule was "-A INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT" which says to accept all loopback traffic. So, your duplicate rules may not be duplicates, it's just not displaying enough information (maybe). Are you able to run "iptables-save"? That outputs the options you'd pass at the command line to recreate your current rules. On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Randy Jonasz wrote: > Hey Tim, > > The problem is that when I try to ssh to my computer from outside, the > connection times out. I've tried connecting to my vpn ip and the ip my isp > assigns me but both time out. > > Thanks! > > Randy > > > > Oscar Developer > McMaster University > 175 Longwood Road South, Suite 201A > Hamilton ON L8P 0A1 > 905 525 9140 x27735 > > *There are too many gentlemen in England by five hundred* > *--Robert Burnam 1549* > > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Tim Tisdall wrote: > >> Hey Randy.. What specifically is not working? We know what you've done >> and what you're trying to do, but not what the problem is. >> >> At first glance, though, you should probably eliminate all those >> duplicate entries to at least make it easier to wade through. >> >> -Tim >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Randy Jonasz wrote: >> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> I was wondering if anyone could help solve a problem I'm having with >>> port forwarding on a tomato router set up to connect to a nas via rsync and >>> another computer via ssh. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's >>> where I am at now: >>> >>> Tomato v1.28.0000 MIPSR2-106 K26 USB Mega-VPN >>> root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# ip route show >>> 10.3.12.1 dev ppp0 proto kernel scope link src 173.234.144.211 >>> 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 scope link >>> 173.234.144.194 via 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 >>> 192.168.1.0/24 dev br0 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.1.1 >>> 207.210.24.0/22 dev vlan2 proto kernel scope link src 207.210.24.187 >>> 127.0.0.0/8 dev lo scope link >>> default dev ppp0 scope link >>> default via 207.210.24.1 dev vlan2 >>> root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# iptables -L >>> Chain INPUT (policy DROP) >>> target prot opt source destination >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> ACCEPT all -- 0.0.0.0/24 anywhere >>> DROP all -- anywhere wan-ip.rjonasz.org >>> DROP all -- anywhere anywhere state >>> INVALID >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state >>> RELATED,ESTABLISHED >>> shlimit tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:ssh >>> state NEW >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> ACCEPT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp >>> spt:bootps dpt:bootpc >>> ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:ssh >>> >>> Chain FORWARD (policy DROP) >>> target prot opt source destination >>> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >>> ACCEPT all -- 0.0.0.0/24 anywhere >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere 0.0.0.0/24 >>> all -- anywhere anywhere account: >>> network/netmask: 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0 name: lan >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> DROP all -- anywhere anywhere state >>> INVALID >>> TCPMSS tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>> flags:SYN,RST/SYN TCPMSS clamp to PMTU >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere state >>> RELATED,ESTABLISHED >>> wanin all -- anywhere anywhere >>> wanout all -- anywhere anywhere >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> >>> Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) >>> target prot opt source destination >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere anywhere >>> ACCEPT all -- anywhere 0.0.0.0/24 >>> >>> Chain shlimit (1 references) >>> target prot opt source destination >>> all -- anywhere anywhere recent: SET >>> name: shlimit side: source >>> DROP all -- anywhere anywhere recent: >>> UPDATE seconds: 60 hit_count: 4 name: shlimit side: source >>> >>> Chain wanin (1 references) >>> target prot opt source destination >>> ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere 192.168.1.11 tcp dpt:ssh >>> ACCEPT udp -- anywhere 192.168.1.11 udp dpt:ssh >>> ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org tcp >>> dpt:rsync >>> ACCEPT udp -- anywhere ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org udp >>> dpt:rsync >>> >>> Chain wanout (1 references) >>> target prot opt source destination >>> root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# iptables -t nat -L >>> Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT) >>> target prot opt source destination >>> WANPREROUTING all -- anywhere wan-ip.rjonasz.org >>> DROP all -- anywhere 192.168.1.0/24 >>> >>> Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT) >>> target prot opt source destination >>> SNAT tcp -- 192.168.1.0/24 192.168.1.11 tcp >>> dpt:ssh to:207.210.24.187 >>> SNAT udp -- 192.168.1.0/24 192.168.1.11 udp >>> dpt:ssh to:207.210.24.187 >>> SNAT tcp -- 192.168.1.0/24 ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org tcp >>> dpt:rsync to:207.210.24.187 >>> SNAT udp -- 192.168.1.0/24 ix2-200-TI85JF.rjonasz.org udp >>> dpt:rsync to:207.210.24.187 >>> MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere >>> MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere >>> MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere >>> MASQUERADE all -- anywhere anywhere >>> >>> Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT) >>> target prot opt source destination >>> >>> Chain WANPREROUTING (1 references) >>> target prot opt source destination >>> DNAT icmp -- anywhere anywhere >>> to:192.168.1.1 >>> DNAT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>> dpt:2222 to:192.168.1.11:22 >>> DNAT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp >>> dpt:2222 to:192.168.1.11:22 >>> DNAT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp >>> dpt:rsync to:192.168.1.8:873 >>> DNAT udp -- anywhere anywhere udp >>> dpt:rsync to:192.168.1.8:873 >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Randy >>> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 16:29:53 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 12:29:53 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> Message-ID: Indeed. I didn't realize that Canadians were still clinging to this mythology of Bell as some omnipotent machiavellian hydra. Teksavvy, at least in this case, is the incompetent party. On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 9:32 PM, John Moniz wrote: > On 04/07/2013 07:59 PM, Michael MacLeod wrote: > > All interesting info, but not really germane to the original complaint. > Whether it's a bell tech or a subcontractor, it's not a TekSavvy tech. > Fault lies with bell (or persons contacted to them). > > > Unbelievable logic... > > > > On 2013-04-07 7:04 PM, "Scott Sullivan" wrote: > >> On 04/07/2013 06:58 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: >> >>> On 04/06/2013 02:25 PM, Scott Allen wrote: >>> >>>> On 6 April 2013 14:07, Michael MacLeod wrote: >>>> >>>>> TekSavvy has no techs. Those tech visits are Bell techs. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Thomas said that the tech had to come to install a splitter. If that's >>>> the case, then it's probably a cable Internet install. That would mean >>>> Rogers tech, not a Bell techs. It's the same situation, though. >>>> >>> >>> Actually, this is DSL and the splitter their referring to is actually a >>> DSL filter installed at the Demarcation point to to filter out DSL on >>> all the inside wiring. >>> >> >> So, after the Demarcation point. From the NID you'll typically have a >> single wire per phone line coming into the home. Somewhere between where >> the rest of the home splits off from that connection and the NID is where >> the splitter will be inserted. >> >> >>> http://csmedia.corning.com/CableSystems/images/dsl/cps-dtv2-0w-cn_a_zoom.jpg >>> >>> >>> Additional, it's not actually Bell Technicians doing this work. Bell's >>> Techs handle bringing the DSL to the Demarcation Point. In most homes >>> his is the little grey box outside called the NID (Network Interface >>> Device). The Techs that come inside to handle and inside wiring and the >>> installations of these DSL Filters/Splitters is a Third Party Company >>> that Bell Contracts for this specific work. As far as I know the only >>> use them for the Wholesale ISPs like TekSavvy. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Scott Sullivan >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 16:35:34 2013 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 12:35:34 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 12:29 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Indeed. I didn't realize that Canadians were still clinging to this > mythology of Bell as some omnipotent machiavellian hydra. Teksavvy, at least > in this case, is the incompetent party. If that's what you really believe, then it's hard to see how the situation will ever get better. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 12:26:30 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 08:26:30 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> Message-ID: <5162B776.7080900@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > or would have needed > to run a wire between the current modems position and the > splitter-near-the-demarc, roughly the length of the house Actually, probably not. All the cable used for phones has 2 or 3 pairs. You can connect the modem to the 2nd or 3rd pairs to run it over the existing wiring. While filters with punch down terminals are best for this, you can improvise with a 2 outlet box. Bring the line into the 1st pair of one outlet and then to the 2nd (or 3rd) pair of the outlet outlet. Then plug the filter between the to outlets to provide phone service on the 1st pair. You may also need a short patch cord to do this. With this configuration, you will have the phone on the first pair of all outlets and ADSL on the 2nd or 3rd. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 12:27:58 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 08:27:58 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> Message-ID: <5162B7CE.6040204@rogers.com> Scott Allen wrote: > I again bought my modem but a tech visit was required to > install a splitter and test the line, even though I could have done it > myself. Not quite. The tech should have measured the signal level and adjusted as necessary, as part of the job. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 7 23:04:11 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2013 19:04:11 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <5161FA2B.1050503-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> Message-ID: <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> On 04/07/2013 06:58 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 04/06/2013 02:25 PM, Scott Allen wrote: >> On 6 April 2013 14:07, Michael MacLeod wrote: >>> TekSavvy has no techs. Those tech visits are Bell techs. >> >> Thomas said that the tech had to come to install a splitter. If that's >> the case, then it's probably a cable Internet install. That would mean >> Rogers tech, not a Bell techs. It's the same situation, though. > > Actually, this is DSL and the splitter their referring to is actually a > DSL filter installed at the Demarcation point to to filter out DSL on > all the inside wiring. So, after the Demarcation point. From the NID you'll typically have a single wire per phone line coming into the home. Somewhere between where the rest of the home splits off from that connection and the NID is where the splitter will be inserted. > http://csmedia.corning.com/CableSystems/images/dsl/cps-dtv2-0w-cn_a_zoom.jpg > > > Additional, it's not actually Bell Technicians doing this work. Bell's > Techs handle bringing the DSL to the Demarcation Point. In most homes > his is the little grey box outside called the NID (Network Interface > Device). The Techs that come inside to handle and inside wiring and the > installations of these DSL Filters/Splitters is a Third Party Company > that Bell Contracts for this specific work. As far as I know the only > use them for the Wholesale ISPs like TekSavvy. > -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 7 22:58:51 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2013 18:58:51 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> On 04/06/2013 02:25 PM, Scott Allen wrote: > On 6 April 2013 14:07, Michael MacLeod wrote: >> TekSavvy has no techs. Those tech visits are Bell techs. > > Thomas said that the tech had to come to install a splitter. If that's > the case, then it's probably a cable Internet install. That would mean > Rogers tech, not a Bell techs. It's the same situation, though. Actually, this is DSL and the splitter their referring to is actually a DSL filter installed at the Demarcation point to to filter out DSL on all the inside wiring. http://csmedia.corning.com/CableSystems/images/dsl/cps-dtv2-0w-cn_a_zoom.jpg Additional, it's not actually Bell Technicians doing this work. Bell's Techs handle bringing the DSL to the Demarcation Point. In most homes his is the little grey box outside called the NID (Network Interface Device). The Techs that come inside to handle and inside wiring and the installations of these DSL Filters/Splitters is a Third Party Company that Bell Contracts for this specific work. As far as I know the only use them for the Wholesale ISPs like TekSavvy. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 7 23:59:38 2013 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 19:59:38 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <5161FB6B.5000507-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> Message-ID: All interesting info, but not really germane to the original complaint. Whether it's a bell tech or a subcontractor, it's not a TekSavvy tech. Fault lies with bell (or persons contacted to them). On 2013-04-07 7:04 PM, "Scott Sullivan" wrote: > On 04/07/2013 06:58 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > >> On 04/06/2013 02:25 PM, Scott Allen wrote: >> >>> On 6 April 2013 14:07, Michael MacLeod wrote: >>> >>>> TekSavvy has no techs. Those tech visits are Bell techs. >>>> >>> >>> Thomas said that the tech had to come to install a splitter. If that's >>> the case, then it's probably a cable Internet install. That would mean >>> Rogers tech, not a Bell techs. It's the same situation, though. >>> >> >> Actually, this is DSL and the splitter their referring to is actually a >> DSL filter installed at the Demarcation point to to filter out DSL on >> all the inside wiring. >> > > So, after the Demarcation point. From the NID you'll typically have a > single wire per phone line coming into the home. Somewhere between where > the rest of the home splits off from that connection and the NID is where > the splitter will be inserted. > > http://csmedia.corning.com/**CableSystems/images/dsl/cps-** >> dtv2-0w-cn_a_zoom.jpg >> >> >> Additional, it's not actually Bell Technicians doing this work. Bell's >> Techs handle bringing the DSL to the Demarcation Point. In most homes >> his is the little grey box outside called the NID (Network Interface >> Device). The Techs that come inside to handle and inside wiring and the >> installations of these DSL Filters/Splitters is a Third Party Company >> that Bell Contracts for this specific work. As far as I know the only >> use them for the Wholesale ISPs like TekSavvy. >> >> > > -- > Scott Sullivan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 16:42:31 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 12:42:31 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> Message-ID: <5162F377.7080800@ss.org> On 04/08/2013 12:29 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Indeed. I didn't realize that Canadians were still clinging to this > mythology of Bell as some omnipotent machiavellian hydra. Teksavvy, at > least in this case, is the incompetent party. > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 9:32 PM, John Moniz > wrote: > > On 04/07/2013 07:59 PM, Michael MacLeod wrote: >> >> All interesting info, but not really germane to the original >> complaint. Whether it's a bell tech or a subcontractor, it's not a >> TekSavvy tech. Fault lies with bell (or persons contacted to them). >> > > Unbelievable logic... So the problem that this all stems from is that no one can control enough of the stack to deliver a meaningful end to end quality of service. Bell in theory could, but they stopped trying decades ago. For anything on the wire network the Wholesale ISPs are left playing telephone tag with business processes they have no control over. One way out is rolling out your own physical infrastructure, which is costly, gives you far more limited reach and is a duplication of what already exists. It also used to be that anyone could put their equipment in a Central Office and work out from there. With the new VDSL2 equipment the SLAMs are now being deployed to concrete bunkers and onto the sides of the neighbourhood wire box (pedestal). These locations you can't get access to put in your own equipment. One way to fix the system is get the CRTC out of Bells pocket and have them actually support real competition. Not this watered down access that is the current Wholesale arrangement. The funny thing is, if Bell really supported the wholesale use of their network, in just a few short years they would have better service companies to buy up and improve their own quality of service. But that would make too much sense. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 16:44:17 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 12:44:17 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> Message-ID: <20130408164417.GA25350@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 12:29:53PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > Indeed. I didn't realize that Canadians were still clinging to this > mythology of Bell as some omnipotent machiavellian hydra. Teksavvy, at Bell Canada is a legitimate monopoly, a carrier, and a content provider. They have a history of using their monopoly to wipe out all competition. That seems more maniacal then mythical. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 16:47:46 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 12:47:46 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130408164746.GL21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 02:03:22PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > I asked Teksavvy to hook me up to their 15MB service almost three weeks ago. > > They said that in order to complete this, they would need to send out a > tech to install a splitter between 12 and 9 pm, April 2. April 2 came, I > waited, no show. Called the next day, they apologized but said we would > need to wait another 3 days and still hang at home for nine hours. Okay, we > wait. Second time, no show. > > Now they are saying we need to wait til Tuesday, and again hang out from 12 > to 9 pm. That ain't gonna happen. > > Anyone know something about Teksavvy that can explain why they are being so > negligent? It's like they've abandoned all effort at actually doing > anything, and are now focusing on just obtaining more market share. > > Also, since my wife works at Bell, we are thinking of getting their > internet service since we can probably get a break on the price. Any > thoughts? I know there a lot of emotional and political reasons to avoid > Bell, but what are the likely technical pitfalls? > > Anyway, just feel totally lost at this point. I can't believe Teksavvy has > declined so precipitously in terms of their customer care. Their problem is that Bell is doing all the work and from what I have heard Bell's system for booking work makes it very easy to think you have booked something when you haven't. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 16:49:24 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 12:49:24 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130408164924.GM21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 02:25:49PM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: > Thomas said that the tech had to come to install a splitter. If that's > the case, then it's probably a cable Internet install. That would mean > Rogers tech, not a Bell techs. It's the same situation, though. The faster DSL connections use a splitter that filters. Cable generally does not other than your plain generic cable splitter, and which anyone can screw in. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 16:53:30 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 12:53:30 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> Message-ID: <20130408165330.GN21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 01:58:58AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > That's what I expected when I got a VDSL2 connection last year. But > that's not what happened when the tech arrived. > > Instead, the splitter was installed in the room with the modem, way > downstream of the demarc. I have no idea why they sent a tech. I > don't know anything that he did that I couldn't do (and I'm not that > handy). > > I've got this little "Corning ADSL/VDSL POTS splitter", just like the > picture, dangling on my desk. And this annoying Cellpipe modem. My splitter is in the garage right after the the cable enters the house (the demarc point is outside the house). It looks pretty similar to that picture. The cellpipe is not great, but mine seems to be fairly reliable (even though when I talked to a teksayy support person reacently, that's not the oinion he had of them. Seems they prefer the sagecom instead, which is all they now provide for new installs). > I *still* need filters on all the other phones. That was something > that I thought I would no longer need. In theory, that provide more > points of failure. Surely if the splitter had been installed at the > demac, I would not need these filters. But the tech would have either > required me to move the modem to near the demac or would have needed > to run a wire between the current modems position and the > splitter-near-the-demarc, roughly the length of the house. I don't need filters on the phones, probably because all my phone lines are after the splitter in my case. If your splitter is on one line in one room, then yes you would need filters everywhere else. > BTW, my provider is Telnet Communications. They seem good but I have > no way of comparing them with other providers. They don't offer TV and > Bell won't deliver TV over a phoneline that a third-party ISP offers > internet (doesn't affect me). I don't know how their prices compare. > They don't advertise unlimited "bandwidth" (bytes/month), but they > seem to not have a cap. I haven't tested this in any way. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 11:27:11 2013 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 07:27:11 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> Message-ID: On 8 April 2013 01:58, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Scott Sullivan > | So, after the Demarcation point. From the NID you'll typically have a single > | wire per phone line coming into the home. Somewhere between where the rest of > | the home splits off from that connection and the NID is where the splitter > | will be inserted. > | > | > http://csmedia.corning.com/CableSystems/images/dsl/cps-dtv2-0w-cn_a_zoom.jpg > > That's what I expected when I got a VDSL2 connection last year. But > that's not what happened when the tech arrived. > > Instead, the splitter was installed in the room with the modem, way > downstream of the demarc. I have no idea why they sent a tech. I > don't know anything that he did that I couldn't do (and I'm not that > handy). Yes, DSL usually just uses a simple filter/splitter, e.g. , or the modem installed on an unused jack, with filters on all phones. Putting the modem close to the demarc, or on a separate line, and then using one filter for all phones is less common. This is why I assumed a cable Internet install, since Rogers doesn't want people installing their own splitters. When I got Teksavvy DSL, I bought my own modem and installed it myself with no tech visit. When I recently switched to Teksavvy cable Internet, I again bought my modem but a tech visit was required to install a splitter and test the line, even though I could have done it myself. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 17:10:12 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 13:10:12 -0400 Subject: Linux and drives > 2 terabytes; questions. In-Reply-To: <20130406095018.GA4806-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130403230804.GA2099@waltdnes.org> <20130404135324.GH21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130406095018.GA4806@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130408171012.GO21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 05:50:18AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Ahemmm... https://lwn.net/Articles/521022/ So someone made a mistake and fixed it. Reiserfs is a mistake by design. It can't be fixed. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 17:11:52 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 13:11:52 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <20130408164746.GL21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130408164746.GL21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 02:03:22PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > > I asked Teksavvy to hook me up to their 15MB service almost three weeks > ago. > > > > They said that in order to complete this, they would need to send out a > > tech to install a splitter between 12 and 9 pm, April 2. April 2 came, I > > waited, no show. Called the next day, they apologized but said we would > > need to wait another 3 days and still hang at home for nine hours. Okay, > we > > wait. Second time, no show. > > > > Now they are saying we need to wait til Tuesday, and again hang out from > 12 > > to 9 pm. That ain't gonna happen. > > > > Anyone know something about Teksavvy that can explain why they are being > so > > negligent? It's like they've abandoned all effort at actually doing > > anything, and are now focusing on just obtaining more market share. > > > > Also, since my wife works at Bell, we are thinking of getting their > > internet service since we can probably get a break on the price. Any > > thoughts? I know there a lot of emotional and political reasons to avoid > > Bell, but what are the likely technical pitfalls? > > > > Anyway, just feel totally lost at this point. I can't believe Teksavvy > has > > declined so precipitously in terms of their customer care. > > Their problem is that Bell is doing all the work and from what I have > heard Bell's system for booking work makes it very easy to think you > have booked something when you haven't. > > I know that Bell has it's own issues, but this has gone way beyond what can be blamed on Bell. Teksavvy doesn't even seem to have the wherewithal to keep commitments to call people back or provide consistent or accurate information. At some point, it is up to Teksavvy to identify the problems and work around them. In fact, to learn that this is an issue Teksavvy might have known about prior to me having a problem makes it even harder for them to avoid responsibility. They can't just keep saying, 'oh well it's Bell's fault' indefinitely. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 17:12:28 2013 From: anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Verevkin) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 13:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Iptables REJECT taking 3 seconds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > From: "Tyler Aviss" > I've noticed that even when a rule exists to REJECT outgoing > connections, it still takes about 3 seconds to process. > > # iptables -A OUTPUT -m state --state INVALID -j REJECT > # date; telnet 10.1.1.1 80; date > Mon Apr 8 09:08:40 PDT 2013 > Trying 10.1.1.1... > telnet: connect to address 10.1.1.1 : Connection refused > Mon Apr 8 09:08:43 PDT 2013 > > It always seems to be a solid 3 seconds. I don't remember this being > the normal behaviour previously. Perhaps it's something that is > configured somewhere? Tyler, Why do you think this connection has "INVALID" state? INVALID would mean that for example you receive TCP FIN, or ACK, or anything before doing the proper handshake, etc. If for example you don't have some routing that would not be INVALID. So I believe you have been DROP'ped by the other rules or by the chain policy. Regards, Anthony -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 17:56:53 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 13:56:53 -0400 Subject: GTALUG Mailing Lists Refresher Message-ID: <516304E5.1050301@ss.org> It has come to my attention that some folks have been caught a little off guard by the announcement of our move to Ryerson. If you are one of those folks scratching your head wondering 'what announcement?' then this message is particularly for you. GTALUG runs multiple mailing lists based on the needs of the community. http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists There is the general discussion list (this one) and also a low traffic announcement mailing list. It is this latter list where we post information about our upcoming meetings, special events or important notices about the meetings. We keep these two lists separate since there are folks that only want the latter information. Additionally there are some great folks and/or alumni that participate on the discussion list, but don't live in Toronto and so don't need to hear about what meetings are coming. So, if your only subscribed to this list, but want to know about our meetings, please consider subscribing to the announce mailing list as well. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 18:05:15 2013 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 11:05:15 -0700 Subject: Iptables REJECT taking 3 seconds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gah, pasted the wrong rule line. The iptables rule was actually /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 80 -j REJECT On Apr 8, 2013 9:19 AM, "Tyler Aviss" wrote: > I've noticed that even when a rule exists to REJECT outgoing connections, > it still takes about 3 seconds to process. > While DROP rules should depend on the timeout of the connecting app, > shouldn't anything that is REJECT'ed be immediately blocked and end the > connection attempt? > > # iptables -A OUTPUT -m state --state INVALID -j REJECT > # date; telnet 10.1.1.1 80; date > Mon Apr 8 09:08:40 PDT 2013 > Trying 10.1.1.1... > telnet: connect to address 10.1.1.1: Connection refused > Mon Apr 8 09:08:43 PDT 2013 > > It always seems to be a solid 3 seconds. I don't remember this being the > normal behaviour previously. Perhaps it's something that is configured > somewhere? > > > RHEL-5.9 > > > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA > > "Computers don't make mistakes. They can, however, execute those provided > to them very quickly" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 18:36:18 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 14:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Port Forwarding with PPTP vpn connection on tomato router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Randy Jonasz | root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# iptables -L I think you want iptables -L -v -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 18:49:50 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 14:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Port Forwarding with PPTP vpn connection on tomato router In-Reply-To: <20130408154736.GA24350-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130408154736.GA24350@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: | From: Neil Watson | Don't kill yourself with manual iptables. There are some great front | ends that make this much easier. Shorewall and fwbuilder are too | excellent options. Do they run on Tomato platforms (consumer-oriented wireless routers)? The original post said: Tomato v1.28.0000 MIPSR2-106 K26 USB Mega-VPN I guess the firmware came from here: It says K26 supports: newer routers like RT-N16, E2000, E3000, E4200 (without 5GHz), WNR3500Lv1 etc. Older MIPSR1 routers are also supported. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 19:19:05 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 15:19:05 -0400 Subject: Port Forwarding with PPTP vpn connection on tomato router In-Reply-To: References: <20130408154736.GA24350@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20130408191905.GA28462@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 02:49:50PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >| From: Neil Watson > >| Don't kill yourself with manual iptables. There are some great front >| ends that make this much easier. Shorewall and fwbuilder are too >| excellent options. > >Do they run on Tomato platforms (consumer-oriented wireless routers)? Shorewall lite might run on Tomato http://www.shorewall.net/CompiledPrograms.html If Tomato has a shell fwbuilder can output shell scripts. I believe fwbuilder works with Openwrt as an alternative. http://www.fwbuilder.org/4.0/supported_firewalls.html -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 8 23:29:18 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 19:29:18 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <20130408164417.GA25350-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> <20130408164417.GA25350@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On 04/08/2013 12:44 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 12:29:53PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> Indeed. I didn't realize that Canadians were still clinging to this >> mythology of Bell as some omnipotent machiavellian hydra. Teksavvy, at > > Bell Canada is a legitimate monopoly, a carrier, and a content provider. > They have a history of using their monopoly to wipe out all competition. > How about providing an opinion about a topic in which you have some familiarity. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 01:11:46 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 21:11:46 -0400 Subject: Port Forwarding with PPTP vpn connection on tomato router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: iptables -S "all chains are printed like iptables-save" On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 2:36 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Randy Jonasz > > | root at Rorty:/tmp/home/root# iptables -L > > I think you want > iptables -L -v > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 11:17:53 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 07:17:53 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> <20130408164417.GA25350@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20130409111753.GA14753@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 07:29:18PM -0400, John Moniz wrote: >On 04/08/2013 12:44 PM, Neil Watson wrote: >>On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 12:29:53PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>> Indeed. I didn't realize that Canadians were still clinging to this >>> mythology of Bell as some omnipotent machiavellian hydra. Teksavvy, at >> >>Bell Canada is a legitimate monopoly, a carrier, and a content provider. >>They have a history of using their monopoly to wipe out all competition. >> >How about providing an opinion about a topic in which you have some >familiarity. Do you know me well enough to fairly judge my familiarity this topic? One of my long term customers is small ISP. I know first hand how Bell and Rogers treat them. I have been a Bell and Rogers customer for many years. I know first hand how they treat me. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 12:31:43 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 08:31:43 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint Message-ID: Microsoft files EU Android complaint http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22078746 Interesting coming from Microsoft. Kind of admission they have kind of lost it. Now question is, since Google don't charge handset manufacturer for android, how strong is this argument? William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 14:16:06 2013 From: anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Verevkin) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 10:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Iptables REJECT taking 3 seconds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69f8a874-4a16-4259-a19e-d5d7b5d680a9@zimbra> > From: "Tyler Aviss" > /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 80 -j REJECT > # date; telnet 10.1.1.1 80; date > Mon Apr 8 09:08:40 PDT 2013 > Trying 10.1.1.1... > telnet: connect to address 10.1.1.1 : Connection refused > Mon Apr 8 09:08:43 PDT 2013 > > > It always seems to be a solid 3 seconds. I don't remember this being > the normal behaviour previously. Perhaps it's something that is > configured somewhere? I've done a little bit of testing here and this seems to be true. However don't blame iptables. If you telnet to some host that does not exist, without an iptables rule, telnet will wait even longer and end up with "Connection timed out" message. So your "Connection refused" proves that iptables rule is working. Perhaps the delay is caused by some changes in telnet implementation. It would help if you use two hosts for troubleshooting - a host and a router/firewall. This way you would be able to tcpdump the traffic between them and see what actually happens. BTW, do you know that if the hostname has several different A and AAAA records associated to it, telnet would actually try all of them in the proper sequence and show you all the attempts? This makes telnet a very useful tool for troubleshooting ipv6. But name resolution issues is not your case here. Regards, Anthony -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 14:28:53 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 10:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi | Microsoft files EU Android complaint | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22078746 | | Interesting coming from Microsoft. Kind of admission they have kind of | lost it. | | Now question is, since Google don't charge handset manufacturer for | android, how strong is this argument? It's worth reading the FairSearch press release: FairSearch is an international coalition of 17 specialized search and technology companies whose members include Expedia, Microsoft, Nokia, Oracle, and TripAdvisor A bit rich coming from Microsoft. Oracle is not an attractive complainant either, given its history. Nokia is now just a Microsoft serf. I thought that Expedia was owned by Microsoft; in fact, they founded it but spun it off in 1999 and it has been though a number of hands and transformations. TripAdvisor was/is part of that. So none of the named members of FairSearch looks to be totally clean. Google achieved its dominance in the smartphone operating system market by giving Android to device-makers for ?free.? But in reality, Android phone makers who want to include must-have Google apps such as Maps, YouTube or Play are required to pre-load an entire suite of Google mobile services and to give them prominent default placement on the phone, the complaint says. This disadvantages other providers, and puts Google?s Android in control of consumer data on a majority of smartphones shipped today. This seems to be accurate. The quoting of "free" seems to be a negative insinuation, but it is correct -- the meaning of free is kind of tricky. Google?s predatory distribution of Android at below-cost makes it difficult for other providers of operating systems to recoup investments in competing with Google?s dominant mobile platform, the complaint says. That's one way of looking at the situation. But Android didn't start with a phone software monopoly. They did start with a search "dominant position". So was the growth of Android an exploitation of a dominant position (and thus against regulations)? Not clear to me. Linux is distributed "below cost", so the argument is interesting to us. It sure looks to me as if Apple's IOS is worse from a competitive standpoint: the whole iDevice ecosystem locks out or severely taxes anything that competes with Apple. Microsoft's Win8 for phones or tablets seems to be just as bad as Apple (but not yet dominant). I'd guess that Microsoft Windows XP and Win7 Starter Edition were sold below cost to netbook vendors to drive out Linux. Windows Mobile licensing might be interesting for Google lawyers to study. Nokia gave Simbian for "free". Ditto Maemo (with all its different names). From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 14:44:51 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 10:44:51 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 08:31:43AM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Microsoft files EU Android complaint > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22078746 > > Interesting coming from Microsoft. Kind of admission they have kind of > lost it. No I think they have it exactly right. > Now question is, since Google don't charge handset manufacturer for > android, how strong is this argument? I would think pretty good actually. You can use android any way you want, but then you only get access to it after the "good" device makers area ready to release products. And if you don't do things google's way, you probably won't be allowed to have google maps and gmail and access to the official android app store. Those bits are not open source after all. I certainly think Android is evil and don't own any android devices. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 14:52:40 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 10:52:40 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130409144450.GP21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > You can use android any way you want, but then you only get access to > it after the "good" device makers area ready to release products. And if > you don't do things google's way, you probably won't be allowed to have > google maps and gmail and access to the official android app store. > Those bits are not open source after all. > > I certainly think Android is evil and don't own any android devices. Compare that to Apple where they pretty much tell iPhone users what they want. Or look at the controls and restrictions Apple employs against it's customers. This is even before we get started on Microsoft's track record. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 15:59:51 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 11:59:51 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> <20130408164417.GA25350@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:29 PM, John Moniz wrote: > On 04/08/2013 12:44 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > >> On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 12:29:53PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> >>> Indeed. I didn't realize that Canadians were still clinging to this >>> mythology of Bell as some omnipotent machiavellian hydra. Teksavvy, at >>> >> >> Bell Canada is a legitimate monopoly, a carrier, and a content provider. >> They have a history of using their monopoly to wipe out all competition. >> >> How about providing an opinion about a topic in which you have some > familiarity. > > I noticed that you are sending from Sympatico. Maybe you can answer my actual question, which was about technical drawbacks to their service. I see Bell adds things like anti-virus and so on on top of the service. Those things can sometimes have some unforeseen negative consequences. Do you find it generally fast and so on? Thanks! -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 16:05:51 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 12:05:51 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <20130409111753.GA14753-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> <20130408164417.GA25350@watson-wilson.ca> <20130409111753.GA14753@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 7:17 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 07:29:18PM -0400, John Moniz wrote: > >> On 04/08/2013 12:44 PM, Neil Watson wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 12:29:53PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>> >>>> Indeed. I didn't realize that Canadians were still clinging to this >>>> mythology of Bell as some omnipotent machiavellian hydra. Teksavvy, at >>>> >>> >>> Bell Canada is a legitimate monopoly, a carrier, and a content provider. >>> They have a history of using their monopoly to wipe out all competition. >>> >>> How about providing an opinion about a topic in which you have some >> familiarity. >> > > Do you know me well enough to fairly judge my familiarity this topic? > One of my long term customers is small ISP. I know first hand how Bell > and Rogers treat them. I have been a Bell and Rogers customer for many > years. I know first hand how they treat me. > > > Well, politically you're preaching to the choir I guess. I am not a Bell fanboy or anything. I only wanted to find out if people knew about specific technical drawbacks to Bell's service. Similarly, I know that Teksavvy is a political favourite, and I certainly sympathize with that, but in my case it's a little more complicated. At some point, if they simply are not capable of providing their service to me, then I do not have much choice other than to cut them loose. I can't sit here for two months waiting for them to sort it out. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 17:00:59 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 13:00:59 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> <20130408164417.GA25350@watson-wilson.ca> <20130409111753.GA14753@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20130409170059.GA21964@watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 12:05:51PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > Well, politically you're preaching to the choir I guess. I am not a Bell > fanboy or anything. I only wanted to find out if people knew about > specific technical drawbacks to Bell's service. I have not used Bell's Internet service directly. I have recently moved from DSL to cable after repeated service slow downs, disconnects, and one complete line cut off. A colleague of mine did a co-op term with Rogers. He described a comedy of errors in ticket management. I think both Bell and Rogers do have agendas to crush competition. This is normal. They do have market dominance which give them an unfair advantage. And it's not just Internet providing. I am uncomfortable with a carrier owning television networks, as Bell owns CTV. Bell could offer cut rates for their channels will charging higher rates to competing channels. Suppose competing channels were to experience higher than average outages? I have Rogers cable. I have noticed that network commercials will sometimes be cut short and interrupted by a Rogers commercial. I am suspicious of this. Most of us have read about the throttling and bandwidth caps proposed by Bell and Rogers not long ago. There is still throttling going on now. There are good reasons to be suspicious of both companies. Bell and Rogers are not supplying Teksavvy by choice. I believe they were ordered by the CTRTc to do so. It's believable that large corporations have bad support due to funding neglect. That is common most places. I believe that both Bell and Rogers neglect support from other ISP's. They support them as required, but no more. I also believe that support calls from other ISP's get the lowest priority. I think the state of Internet providers in Canada is terrible. There is no good choice. One simple has to choice the provider that they can tolerate the best. Regarding the original post about Teksavvy. I would call them at the beginning and the end of each day until the issue was fixed or until I cancelled and went elsewhere. Tweeting can also get results if Teksavvy monitors Twitter. Corporations do not like bad press. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 17:45:28 2013 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 10:45:28 -0700 Subject: Iptables REJECT taking 3 seconds In-Reply-To: <69f8a874-4a16-4259-a19e-d5d7b5d680a9@zimbra> References: <69f8a874-4a16-4259-a19e-d5d7b5d680a9@zimbra> Message-ID: Same behavior occurs with "netcat" as well. Just seemed odd to me On Apr 9, 2013 7:17 AM, "Anthony Verevkin" wrote: > > From: "Tyler Aviss" > > > /sbin/iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 80 -j REJECT > > > # date; telnet 10.1.1.1 80; date > > Mon Apr 8 09:08:40 PDT 2013 > > Trying 10.1.1.1... > > telnet: connect to address 10.1.1.1 : Connection refused > > Mon Apr 8 09:08:43 PDT 2013 > > > > > > It always seems to be a solid 3 seconds. I don't remember this being > > the normal behaviour previously. Perhaps it's something that is > > configured somewhere? > > I've done a little bit of testing here and this seems to be true. However > don't > blame iptables. If you telnet to some host that does not exist, without an > iptables > rule, telnet will wait even longer and end up with "Connection timed out" > message. > So your "Connection refused" proves that iptables rule is working. > > Perhaps the delay is caused by some changes in telnet implementation. It > would help > if you use two hosts for troubleshooting - a host and a router/firewall. > This way > you would be able to tcpdump the traffic between them and see what > actually happens. > > BTW, do you know that if the hostname has several different A and AAAA > records > associated to it, telnet would actually try all of them in the proper > sequence and > show you all the attempts? This makes telnet a very useful tool for > troubleshooting > ipv6. But name resolution issues is not your case here. > > Regards, > Anthony > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 17:46:47 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 13:46:47 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <51642B38.6090001-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 10:52:40AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Compare that to Apple where they pretty much tell iPhone users what > they want. Or look at the controls and restrictions Apple employs > against it's customers. This is even before we get started on > Microsoft's track record. And that's why i don't own any smartphone yet. Apple has nice software, nice design, horrible corporate policies that ruin the experience. Microsoft wants really badly to do everything like apple and get as much control as possible. Google seems to want the same thing, but unlike apple they are not at all honest about the fact. At least Apple is upfront about the way things are. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 17:51:03 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 13:51:03 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130409174647.GQ21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Google seems to want the same thing, but unlike apple they are not at > all honest about the fact. At least Apple is upfront about the way > things are. You might want to read the current Groklaw thread on this. You'll see Google doesn't do what's being claimed, as Kindle and Facebook have developed their own Android based devices, without all the Google stuff. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130409095055445 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 18:09:28 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 14:09:28 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <51645507.6050103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 01:51:03PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >Google seems to want the same thing, but unlike apple they are not at > >all honest about the fact. At least Apple is upfront about the way > >things are. > > You might want to read the current Groklaw thread on this. You'll > see Google doesn't do what's being claimed, as Kindle and Facebook > have developed their own Android based devices, without all the > Google stuff. Sure, but only after google released the source to that version, and they don't have access to the official app store as far as I know. If you want access to new versions first, then you must play by google's rules. In the cell phone market being behind by 6 months is a lot. > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130409095055445 So the first part the author of the growlaw article apparently doesn't know how to read and misunderstands what it says. It clearly says that to use certain google proprietary apps like google map and youtube that everyone wants on their cell phone, you have to follow certain rules. Amazon doesn't have those because they made an e-reader and they don't care about youtube and google maps. Amazon also didn't care that they didn't get to use the latest and greatest android version, because they didn't need it for their purpose. Google's rules don't say what add on applications can do (such as facebook's home screen app). They do say what the default config of cell phones have to be to follow google's rules and have permission to include certain apps and to get access to the new android version before the source code is released to the public in general. So facebook changing the home screen is OK. A cell phone maker installing it by default on the shipping product probably would NOT be OK with google. I don't expect anyone to do anything about what google is doing, since all you get from following google's rules is access to new versions slightly before everyone else. Certainly anyone can take any released version of android and start making a phone with it. Of course if you want google's proprietary applications on it, then you have to follow some rules, but you could always do your own maps and video playback and all that. Of course given the enourmous popularity of youtube and google maps and such, you probably would be at a pretty big disadvantage that way, but oh well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 18:11:13 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 14:11:13 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130409180928.GR21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Sure, but only after google released the source to that version, and > they don't have access to the official app store as far as I know. > > If you want access to new versions first, then you must play by google's > rules. In the cell phone market being behind by 6 months is a lot. Now try it with MS or Apple. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 18:40:09 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 14:40:09 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <516459C1.6060605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 02:11:13PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >Sure, but only after google released the source to that version, and > >they don't have access to the official app store as far as I know. > > > >If you want access to new versions first, then you must play by google's > >rules. In the cell phone market being behind by 6 months is a lot. > > Now try it with MS or Apple. Who cares? At least they are honest about it. My problem with Android is that they claim to be all open source and friendly, but it's all a lie. If you are not one of their buddy companies, then you get no say in what the next version of Android will be. You will get it when Google is good and ready to give it to you and you will be happy with what you get. You can try asking google nicely to add something, but that doesn't mean they will care what you think. Android goes where it suits google (and their friends). At least Apple and Microsoft have the decency to be up front about the actual conditions they want to impose. I won't buy any of them of course. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 19:03:38 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 15:03:38 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130409184009.GS21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130409190338.GA25036@watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 02:40:09PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >you and you will be happy with what you get. You can try asking google >nicely to add something, but that doesn't mean they will care what >you think. Android goes where it suits google (and their friends). You can ask what you like of the Linux kernel but what goes in is what suites Linus and his friends. You can fork if you like. Can you fork Android? -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 19:21:27 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 15:21:27 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130409190338.GA25036-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130409190338.GA25036@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <51646A37.6010804@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > Can you fork Android? Yes. Both Kindle and Facebook have done that. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 19:54:58 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 15:54:58 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130409190338.GA25036-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130409190338.GA25036@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20130409195458.GT21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 03:03:38PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 02:40:09PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >you and you will be happy with what you get. You can try asking google > >nicely to add something, but that doesn't mean they will care what > >you think. Android goes where it suits google (and their friends). > > You can ask what you like of the Linux kernel but what goes in is what > suites Linus and his friends. You can fork if you like. Can you fork > Android? At least I can follow the Linux development and I can provide input and send patches with a chance of them going in. I can't see anything of Android until the entire code dump happens. I can't see any discussions about the development, nor have any input. Sure you can fork what google has already released and go somewhere else, but forking isn't great if it can be avoided. And google isn't likely to let you run their applications on your fork, nor to let you use their app store with your fork. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 9 19:55:36 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 15:55:36 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <51646A37.6010804-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130409190338.GA25036@watson-wilson.ca> <51646A37.6010804@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51647238.6080202@utoronto.ca> On 13-04-09 03:21 PM, James Knott wrote: > Neil Watson wrote: >> Can you fork Android? > > Yes. Both Kindle and Facebook have done that. And Cyanogen and other major phone ROMs. They work quite well too. Google is to RedHat as is, I dunno, Arch to Cyanogen? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 10 05:24:31 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 01:24:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130409180928.GR21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | If you want access to new versions first, then you must play by google's | rules. In the cell phone market being behind by 6 months is a lot. I don't remember the details, but in this session at Linux Symposium in 2010, real difficulties were partially described. These difficulties go beyond what is written as Google policies: Tim Riker formerly the CTO at Lineo and contributor to many embedded Linux projects and currently the CTO working on the Saygus Vphone will be presenting his keynote titled "Android - The Bait and Switch OS" which is certain to be very interesting given his extensive practical experience. If I remember correctly, Google dropped out as a Linux Symposium sponsor when they heard Tim was going to give a keynote. That's hardball. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 10 14:08:01 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 10:08:01 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > If I remember correctly, Google dropped out as a Linux Symposium > sponsor when they heard Tim was going to give a keynote. That's hardball. I do agree android is not very friendly to the kernel developers, but disagree they are worse than Windows and Apple. That argument don't make sense. We always make decisions that are not ideal. If you are left, do you go vote conservative because those standing on the left feel too far on the other side? Most people don't and that's where we had Blair as prime minister. Don't some of us here install nvidia binary despite knowing they are unfriendly? I actually still believe that if android was publicly available immediately, nothing much would change because most of the video drivers are only available to those privileged Common, lets agree half a bread is better than none. At least Android increased the # of developers who are comfortable with Linux development. In the long run that's a gain for anybody working with Linux William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 10 14:13:05 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 10:13:05 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130410141305.GU21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:08:01AM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > I do agree android is not very friendly to the kernel developers, but > disagree they are worse than Windows and Apple. That argument don't make > sense. It has nothing to do with Microsoft or Apple. It has to do with Google being dishonest about what they are doing. > We always make decisions that are not ideal. If you are left, do you go > vote conservative because those standing on the left feel too far on the > other side? Most people don't and that's where we had Blair as prime > minister. Don't some of us here install nvidia binary despite knowing they > are unfriendly? Sure, but they are totally honest about being unfriendly. > I actually still believe that if android was publicly available > immediately, nothing much would change because most of the video drivers > are only available to those privileged If android was actually developed as an open source community project, not a secret internal google project, then it might be different. At least then it could honestly call itself an open source project. There are arm chips with available drivers these days (although all involved reverse engineering as far as I know). > Common, lets agree half a bread is better than none. At least Android > increased the # of developers who are comfortable with Linux development. > In the long run that's a gain for anybody working with Linux In what way are they doing that? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 10 14:24:12 2013 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 10:24:12 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130410141305.GU21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130410141305.GU21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Sure, but they are totally honest about being unfriendly. Apple and Microsoft aren't evil because they're honest about being evil? That sounds like the same planet where we should just be happy about Bell and Rogers controlling everything. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 10 14:40:21 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 10:40:21 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130410141305.GU21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130410144021.GV21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:24:12AM -0400, Michael Hill wrote: > On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > > Sure, but they are totally honest about being unfriendly. > > Apple and Microsoft aren't evil because they're honest about being > evil? That sounds like the same planet where we should just be happy > about Bell and Rogers controlling everything. Sure they are evil, but they are honest about it. Google is evil and dishonest in the case of Android which I consider worse. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 10 15:17:58 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 11:17:58 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130410144021.GV21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130410141305.GU21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130410144021.GV21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <516582A6.50409@ss.org> On 04/10/2013 10:40 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:24:12AM -0400, Michael Hill wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Lennart Sorensen >> wrote: >> >>> Sure, but they are totally honest about being unfriendly. >> >> Apple and Microsoft aren't evil because they're honest about being >> evil? That sounds like the same planet where we should just be happy >> about Bell and Rogers controlling everything. > > Sure they are evil, but they are honest about it. Google is evil and > dishonest in the case of Android which I consider worse. > So I feel this has devolved in to an argument of opinions on weather Microsoft's pot is calling the kettle black. My view, and to the point. Microsoft and Apple provide proprietary platforms. Google provides a proprietary platform (it's branded Apps) on top of an open source base (the Android Open Source Project). This is my view of it. Yes, google is the greatest contributor to the ASOP and they choose to only release their changes once it ships (well within the license terms, but IANAL). People follow their development releases due to critical mass. People don't have to use Google's proprietary Apps. As to what the OEMs to with bundling their own proprietary drivers, well that's within the scope of the laws. It doesn't meet our ideals, but again this is a hybrid model. If you want to get them to change from being all proprietary you've got to win them over. This is a start, Rome not built in a day and all. So, from a legal stand point does Microsoft's complain hold water? IANAL We finally have middle ground and purchasing power to leverage and this as made some progress with our voices some leverage with the SoC companies and OEM. Nvidia just released more Tegra source code for their gpus. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia_tegra_3d&num=1 That said, their going to continue with what makes money until we make it effect their bottom line by taking our business elsewhere. Some of you have made it clear your following that principle. What I'm not hearing is effective alternatives, or projects actually attacking the root issue from the SoC manufactures downward. Well, except for Rhombus-Tech. It's just slow going. http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/kde_tablet/news/ http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/news/ http://rhombus-tech.net/freescale/iMX6/news/ There are at least two way to change a system. Application of force (ie, revolution), or learn and practice the existing one enough in order to build a better alternative that takes you closer to your ideals. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 10 17:49:57 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 13:49:57 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <20130409170059.GA21964-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> <20130408164417.GA25350@watson-wilson.ca> <20130409111753.GA14753@watson-wilson.ca> <20130409170059.GA21964@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 12:05:51PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > >> Well, politically you're preaching to the choir I guess. I am not a Bell >> fanboy or anything. I only wanted to find out if people knew about >> specific technical drawbacks to Bell's service. >> > > I have not used Bell's Internet service directly. I have recently moved > from DSL to cable after repeated service slow downs, disconnects, and > one complete line cut off. > > A colleague of mine did a co-op term with Rogers. He described a comedy > of errors in ticket management. > > I think both Bell and Rogers do have agendas to crush competition. This > is normal. They do have market dominance which give them an unfair > advantage. And it's not just Internet providing. I am uncomfortable > with a carrier owning television networks, as Bell owns CTV. Bell could > offer cut rates for their channels will charging higher rates to > competing channels. Suppose competing channels were to experience > higher than average outages? > > I have Rogers cable. I have noticed that network commercials will > sometimes be cut short and interrupted by a Rogers commercial. I am > suspicious of this. > > Most of us have read about the throttling and bandwidth caps proposed > by Bell and Rogers not long ago. There is still throttling going on now. > > There are good reasons to be suspicious of both companies. > > Bell and Rogers are not supplying Teksavvy by choice. I believe they > were ordered by the CTRTc to do so. It's believable that large > corporations have bad support due to funding neglect. That is common > most places. I believe that both Bell and Rogers neglect support from > other ISP's. They support them as required, but no more. I also > believe that support calls from other ISP's get the lowest priority. > > I think the state of Internet providers in Canada is terrible. There is > no good choice. One simple has to choice the provider that they can > tolerate the best. > > Regarding the original post about Teksavvy. I would call them at the > beginning and the end of each day until the issue was fixed or until I > cancelled and went elsewhere. Tweeting can also get results if Teksavvy > monitors Twitter. Corporations do not like bad press. > > > -- > Let me give you an idea what we're talking about here, because I must not be making myself clear. On Monday this week, I spoke to a manager named 'Chris'. He was the second manager we have spoken with, who said that he would personally arrange what is now the THIRD ATTEMPT at getting a tech out to our home. He promised that he would call me this morning with an update on what he had done to expedite this. I am now on the line with Teksavvy, and so far they show no record that Chris has even touched our file. That's just the story from the past three days. The same thing has been happening for almost a month now. I have spent hours on Twitter with the TeksavvyCSR people. It has made zero difference. Teksavvy is clearly just not capable of handling this kind of business. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 10 17:54:34 2013 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 13:54:34 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> <20130408164417.GA25350@watson-wilson.ca> <20130409111753.GA14753@watson-wilson.ca> <20130409170059.GA21964@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I have spent hours on Twitter with the TeksavvyCSR people. It has made zero > difference. Thomas, maybe your wife can pull some strings with the Bell dispatch division? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 10 18:27:15 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 14:27:15 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> <20130408164417.GA25350@watson-wilson.ca> <20130409111753.GA14753@watson-wilson.ca> <20130409170059.GA21964@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Michael Hill wrote: > On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: > > > I have spent hours on Twitter with the TeksavvyCSR people. It has made > zero > > difference. > > Thomas, maybe your wife can pull some strings with the Bell dispatch > division? > > You would think, right? Nah, apparently Bell in turn outsources to a 3rd company called Telecon or Telezon or something. This really is in the end a pretty nice indictment of the whole outsourcing dogma. As if Boeing Dreamliner wasn't enough. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 10 23:22:27 2013 From: anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Verevkin) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1d39ef9a-27aa-43f4-9aff-68b0ea6eea48@zimbra> > From: "Thomas Milne" > I noticed that you are sending from Sympatico. Maybe you can answer > my actual question, which was about technical drawbacks to their > service. I see Bell adds things like anti-virus and so on on top of > the service. Those things can sometimes have some unforeseen > negative consequences. > Do you find it generally fast and so on? Thomas, I think I could answer your question. I have moved to the new apartment a month ago and found that Bell might actually be an ok choice for me. I like having fast Internet but I do not download much. So I took the Bell 15/10 package with 60GB included for $43/mo promotional, $53 afterwards. Provided 60GB is enough for me that price was actually better than Teksavvy who would also have to charge for the Dry-loop (I don't pay that with Bell) and modem rental (Bell gave me the modem for free and because they mentioned it is a $100 value deal I am sure I own it now). And there is no contract here, just a 30-day notice. I checked the speed with iperf towards my Blink connection at work and I had a no-loss exchange at the speeds of 14.9/9.9 which is the way it should be. Bell security was also something I was afraid of but the modem itself does not have any more features than what a stock router would have. Also like with all other Bell routers you can use it in a pass-through bridging mode and that's what I am doing, running a full scale Linux router in a virtual machine which establishes pppoe session and runs all the firewalling, VPNs, QoS and IPv6 encapsulation and serves DHCP back into the router (which is acting as a LAN switch + AP at this stage). There was also an email from Bell with a link where I could have downloaded their security software for my PC, which I didn't even check cause I don't need it. I cannot say if they throttle the torrent traffic as I don't do much torrents - the only movie I have downloaded since went through overnight and I can't say if it was fast or not cause I was sleeping :) Overall I am fully satisfied with me going with Bell now and if you are not going over 60GB/mo (which is a sum of upload and download), then Bell might actually be cheaper than the "independent" ISPs. Regards, Anthony -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 00:10:57 2013 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 20:10:57 -0400 Subject: new meeting location Message-ID: The new meeting location has a real benefit. It's wonderful to have a reserved space. How nice after the years of "squatting". Thank you to those involved in getting this deal done, and especially to the hosts at Ryerson. And congratulations. The scheduled topic was interesting and well presented. Thank you. One drawback of the venue is that the ventilation system is a bit noisy. Bringing or accessing a PA system will help attendees hear the scheduled presenter over the white noise of the ventilation system. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 01:16:48 2013 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 21:16:48 -0400 Subject: new meeting location In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree - congrats on the new location, but, man, was the ventilation ever noisy. The view from the back wasn't that great either - the power columns blocked parts of the screen. Just means an earlier arrival next time. Alex On Apr 10, 2013 8:11 PM, "Richard Weait" wrote: > The new meeting location has a real benefit. > > It's wonderful to have a reserved space. How nice after the years of > "squatting". Thank you to those involved in getting this deal done, and > especially to the hosts at Ryerson. And congratulations. > > The scheduled topic was interesting and well presented. Thank you. > > One drawback of the venue is that the ventilation system is a bit noisy. > Bringing or accessing a PA system will help attendees hear the scheduled > presenter over the white noise of the ventilation system. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 02:06:33 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 22:06:33 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <1d39ef9a-27aa-43f4-9aff-68b0ea6eea48@zimbra> References: <1d39ef9a-27aa-43f4-9aff-68b0ea6eea48@zimbra> Message-ID: On 04/10/2013 07:22 PM, Anthony Verevkin wrote: >> From: "Thomas Milne" >> I noticed that you are sending from Sympatico. Maybe you can answer >> my actual question, which was about technical drawbacks to their >> service. I see Bell adds things like anti-virus and so on on top of >> the service. Those things can sometimes have some unforeseen >> negative consequences. >> Do you find it generally fast and so on? > Thomas, I think I could answer your question. I have moved to the new > apartment a month ago and found that Bell might actually be an ok choice > for me. I like having fast Internet but I do not download much. So I > took the Bell 15/10 package with 60GB included for $43/mo promotional, $53 > afterwards. Provided 60GB is enough for me that price was actually better > than Teksavvy who would also have to charge for the Dry-loop (I don't pay > that with Bell) and modem rental (Bell gave me the modem for free and > because they mentioned it is a $100 value deal I am sure I own it now). > And there is no contract here, just a 30-day notice. > > I checked the speed with iperf towards my Blink connection at work and > I had a no-loss exchange at the speeds of 14.9/9.9 which is the way it > should be. > > Bell security was also something I was afraid of but the modem itself > does not have any more features than what a stock router would have. > Also like with all other Bell routers you can use it in a pass-through > bridging mode and that's what I am doing, running a full scale Linux > router in a virtual machine which establishes pppoe session and runs > all the firewalling, VPNs, QoS and IPv6 encapsulation and serves DHCP > back into the router (which is acting as a LAN switch + AP at this > stage). > > There was also an email from Bell with a link where I could have > downloaded their security software for my PC, which I didn't even check > cause I don't need it. > > I cannot say if they throttle the torrent traffic as I don't do much > torrents - the only movie I have downloaded since went through overnight > and I can't say if it was fast or not cause I was sleeping :) > > Overall I am fully satisfied with me going with Bell now and if you are > not going over 60GB/mo (which is a sum of upload and download), then > Bell might actually be cheaper than the "independent" ISPs. > > Regards, > Anthony Thomas, just to add to the above, I've been happy with my DSL service in general (good consistent speeds) but am getting a bit annoyed with the number of lost connections I've been having lately. Unfortunately, I don't yet know if it's a problem within my walls or outside. For example, today my wife complained that the internet wasn't working. After resetting the modem and two switches (twice), I got a connection. But it took two resets. I don't know what to make of it as yet, still have some testing to do. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 02:45:23 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 22:45:23 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <20130409111753.GA14753-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <5161FA2B.1050503@ss.org> <5161FB6B.5000507@ss.org> <20130408164417.GA25350@watson-wilson.ca> <20130409111753.GA14753@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On 04/09/2013 07:17 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 07:29:18PM -0400, John Moniz wrote: >> On 04/08/2013 12:44 PM, Neil Watson wrote: >>> On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 12:29:53PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>>> Indeed. I didn't realize that Canadians were still clinging to this >>>> mythology of Bell as some omnipotent machiavellian hydra. >>>> Teksavvy, at >>> >>> Bell Canada is a legitimate monopoly, a carrier, and a content >>> provider. >>> They have a history of using their monopoly to wipe out all >>> competition. >>> >> How about providing an opinion about a topic in which you have some >> familiarity. > > Do you know me well enough to fairly judge my familiarity this topic? > One of my long term customers is small ISP. I know first hand how Bell > and Rogers treat them. I have been a Bell and Rogers customer for many > years. I know first hand how they treat me. > Neil, I should not have sent the post above. Even though I was trying to make a point, my words broadcast a personal attack, which was not fair. As I get older I seem to make my point with fewer words, which is not always the proper approach. I made my judgement based on the content of your note, not on my knowledge of you. As unfair as my comment was, you were also too far off in extremism to be taken seriously. It was pretty clear to me that your familiarity with the subject, in a broad sense, just was not there. In fact, I find that the more negative and extreme the comment, the less likely that it was well thought out. I often find myself guilty of same. I can appreciate that you have some exposure to Bell and Rogers, but your examples would not provide you the depth of knowledge required to back up your statement, unless your subject was limited to a small sector of the ISP business. Incidentally, Bell is not a monopoly in that sector. My point was, please be reasonable. As mentioned, I ought not to have said what I did as I am no saint of reasonableness. Kind regards, John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 12:23:42 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:23:42 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare/Need a new modem Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I asked Teksavvy to hook me up to their 15MB service almost three weeks > ago. > > They said that in order to complete this, they would need to send out a > tech to install a splitter between 12 and 9 pm, April 2. April 2 came, I > waited, no show. Called the next day, they apologized but said we would > need to wait another 3 days and still hang at home for nine hours. Okay, we > wait. Second time, no show. > > Now they are saying we need to wait til Tuesday, and again hang out from > 12 to 9 pm. That ain't gonna happen. > > Anyone know something about Teksavvy that can explain why they are being > so negligent? It's like they've abandoned all effort at actually doing > anything, and are now focusing on just obtaining more market share. > > Also, since my wife works at Bell, we are thinking of getting their > internet service since we can probably get a break on the price. Any > thoughts? I know there a lot of emotional and political reasons to avoid > Bell, but what are the likely technical pitfalls? > > Anyway, just feel totally lost at this point. I can't believe Teksavvy has > declined so precipitously in terms of their customer care. > > -- > Thomas Milne > Well guess what? It turns out I do not need a splitter at all. Well, maybe I did, but what I really needed was a NEW MODEM. GAAAAAGGGAAARRRRGGGHJHH! Okay, now that I've got that out of my system, can anyone tell me where to get a Speedtouch 516 modem? Canada Computers says they are out of stock. Someone recommended Tiger Direct but I do not see it on their site. I would like a Speedtouch so that Teksavvy will support it, I know that supposedly any ADSL2+ modem should work. The saga continues. I guess I've decided to treat Teksavvy the way I would my children, and so I will try to be patient and understanding of their youthful carelessness. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 12:55:54 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 08:55:54 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <1d39ef9a-27aa-43f4-9aff-68b0ea6eea48@zimbra> References: <1d39ef9a-27aa-43f4-9aff-68b0ea6eea48@zimbra> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Anthony Verevkin wrote: > > From: "Thomas Milne" > > > I noticed that you are sending from Sympatico. Maybe you can answer > > my actual question, which was about technical drawbacks to their > > service. I see Bell adds things like anti-virus and so on on top of > > the service. Those things can sometimes have some unforeseen > > negative consequences. > > > Do you find it generally fast and so on? > > Thomas, I think I could answer your question. I have moved to the new > apartment a month ago and found that Bell might actually be an ok choice > for me. I like having fast Internet but I do not download much. So I > took the Bell 15/10 package with 60GB included for $43/mo promotional, $53 > afterwards. Provided 60GB is enough for me that price was actually better > than Teksavvy who would also have to charge for the Dry-loop (I don't pay > that with Bell) and modem rental (Bell gave me the modem for free and > because they mentioned it is a $100 value deal I am sure I own it now). > And there is no contract here, just a 30-day notice. > > I checked the speed with iperf towards my Blink connection at work and > I had a no-loss exchange at the speeds of 14.9/9.9 which is the way it > should be. > That's pretty impressive. The upload is a huge difference compared with Teksavvy. I was thinking about it and that could come in very handy for things like Dropbox and Google Drive and so on. > > Bell security was also something I was afraid of but the modem itself > does not have any more features than what a stock router would have. > Also like with all other Bell routers you can use it in a pass-through > bridging mode and that's what I am doing, running a full scale Linux > router in a virtual machine which establishes pppoe session and runs > all the firewalling, VPNs, QoS and IPv6 encapsulation and serves DHCP > back into the router (which is acting as a LAN switch + AP at this > stage). > Wait, the Bell modem is also the router? Ew. > > There was also an email from Bell with a link where I could have > downloaded their security software for my PC, which I didn't even check > cause I don't need it. > Ya, I remember when I was with Sympatico waaaaay back when, and they were binning legit e-mails as spam, and I had no way of getting them because their client did not support Linux, certainly not Fetchmail anyhow. I told them to please turn it off. Their CSR, thinking they were being clever, said to me 'Oh, so you WANT to get spam e-mails?'. I guess you can imagine how a young, angry, newly minted (at the time) Linux fanboy might respond to that. Some bridges got burned. > I cannot say if they throttle the torrent traffic as I don't do much > torrents - the only movie I have downloaded since went through overnight > and I can't say if it was fast or not cause I was sleeping :) > > Overall I am fully satisfied with me going with Bell now and if you are > not going over 60GB/mo (which is a sum of upload and download), then > Bell might actually be cheaper than the "independent" ISPs. > > That's where I am going to lose out. I don't believe that anything is throttled anymore, but the cap is way too low. Bell's prices, if you ignore the 'six months special' price, are waaaaay higher than Teksavvy. For the 15MB service, I would be looking at $20 more per month and that is for a much smaller cap. I might not reach Teksavvy's cap of 300GB, but I would certainly go over Bell's 60GB some months. We watch a LOT of Netflix and, well, you know, 'aarrrr, matey'. I might get some break because of my spousal affiliations but then I saw what they gave my wife for her new laptop. Bell has switched from Lenovo to HP for their managers. Yes, HP. Any company that would make such a horrifying blunder, I just don't know. ;-) Thanks very much for the info. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 13:05:22 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:05:22 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <1d39ef9a-27aa-43f4-9aff-68b0ea6eea48@zimbra> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:06 PM, John Moniz wrote: > On 04/10/2013 07:22 PM, Anthony Verevkin wrote: > >> From: "Thomas Milne" >>> I noticed that you are sending from Sympatico. Maybe you can answer >>> my actual question, which was about technical drawbacks to their >>> service. I see Bell adds things like anti-virus and so on on top of >>> the service. Those things can sometimes have some unforeseen >>> negative consequences. >>> Do you find it generally fast and so on? >>> >> Thomas, I think I could answer your question. I have moved to the new >> apartment a month ago and found that Bell might actually be an ok choice >> for me. I like having fast Internet but I do not download much. So I >> took the Bell 15/10 package with 60GB included for $43/mo promotional, $53 >> afterwards. Provided 60GB is enough for me that price was actually better >> than Teksavvy who would also have to charge for the Dry-loop (I don't pay >> that with Bell) and modem rental (Bell gave me the modem for free and >> because they mentioned it is a $100 value deal I am sure I own it now). >> And there is no contract here, just a 30-day notice. >> >> I checked the speed with iperf towards my Blink connection at work and >> I had a no-loss exchange at the speeds of 14.9/9.9 which is the way it >> should be. >> >> Bell security was also something I was afraid of but the modem itself >> does not have any more features than what a stock router would have. >> Also like with all other Bell routers you can use it in a pass-through >> bridging mode and that's what I am doing, running a full scale Linux >> router in a virtual machine which establishes pppoe session and runs >> all the firewalling, VPNs, QoS and IPv6 encapsulation and serves DHCP >> back into the router (which is acting as a LAN switch + AP at this >> stage). >> >> There was also an email from Bell with a link where I could have >> downloaded their security software for my PC, which I didn't even check >> cause I don't need it. >> >> I cannot say if they throttle the torrent traffic as I don't do much >> torrents - the only movie I have downloaded since went through overnight >> and I can't say if it was fast or not cause I was sleeping :) >> >> Overall I am fully satisfied with me going with Bell now and if you are >> not going over 60GB/mo (which is a sum of upload and download), then >> Bell might actually be cheaper than the "independent" ISPs. >> >> Regards, >> Anthony >> > Thomas, just to add to the above, I've been happy with my DSL service in > general (good consistent speeds) but am getting a bit annoyed with the > number of lost connections I've been having lately. Unfortunately, I don't > yet know if it's a problem within my walls or outside. For example, today > my wife complained that the internet wasn't working. After resetting the > modem and two switches (twice), I got a connection. But it took two resets. > I don't know what to make of it as yet, still have some testing to do. > > You know, that's the one thing that stands out for me with Teksavvy, and the one reason I am being more patient with them now. I realized that in the past 5 years, I have never had more than a brief hiccup, nothing that required more than restarting the modem. Their customer service might be horrifyingly incompetent, but it appears that technically they remain 'on the ball'. I really appreciate everyone's input, even though it got a bit silly here and there. Setting aside the complaints about specific companies, I don't think any Canadian would disagree that sometimes it seems like we are living in a technological backwater. It is a shame. I'll stop before I say something communist and upset William P. Have an awesome day! -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 13:25:39 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:25:39 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130409184009.GS21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 09, 2013 at 02:11:13PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >Sure, but only after google released the source to that version, and > > >they don't have access to the official app store as far as I know. > > > > > >If you want access to new versions first, then you must play by google's > > >rules. In the cell phone market being behind by 6 months is a lot. > > > > Now try it with MS or Apple. > > Who cares? At least they are honest about it. > > My problem with Android is that they claim to be all open source and > friendly, but it's all a lie. If you are not one of their buddy > companies, then you get no say in what the next version of Android > will be. You will get it when Google is good and ready to give it to > you and you will be happy with what you get. You can try asking google > nicely to add something, but that doesn't mean they will care what > you think. Android goes where it suits google (and their friends). > > At least Apple and Microsoft have the decency to be up front about the > actual conditions they want to impose. I won't buy any of them of course. > > I have to say, in 99.9% of cases I 100% agree with your judgement. It is without fail based on a very thorough, logical and reasonable analysis of the facts. This might be one of the 0.01% where there is a tiny, almost infinitesimal flaw. I agree, obviously, that Google is dishonest about the way they portray themselves. I don't know if I would call Microsoft 'honest' about anything. Apple, well, yes, they do say up front that they have their own way of doing things. As far as them being better in any way, that's pretty shaky ground, you must admit. I can totally understand why there would be special dislike of Google, and of course there is consistency in abhorring all of their smartphone products. My question is, would it be possible for Google to operate as open source, at least with Android, and still operate within the globalized capitalist framework that supports MS and Apple? Someone should write a research paper on that. Personally, I don't think a truly open source project would be tolerated by post-industrial finance/monopoly capitalism. What cannot be monopolized is universally rejected. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 13:28:19 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:28:19 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130410141305.GU21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Michael Hill wrote: > On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > > Sure, but they are totally honest about being unfriendly. > > Apple and Microsoft aren't evil because they're honest about being > evil? That sounds like the same planet where we should just be happy > about Bell and Rogers controlling everything. > > Well, I think it's a little more nuanced than that. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 13:29:26 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:29:26 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130410144021.GV21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130410141305.GU21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130410144021.GV21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:24:12AM -0400, Michael Hill wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Lennart Sorensen > > wrote: > > > > > Sure, but they are totally honest about being unfriendly. > > > > Apple and Microsoft aren't evil because they're honest about being > > evil? That sounds like the same planet where we should just be happy > > about Bell and Rogers controlling everything. > > Sure they are evil, but they are honest about it. Google is evil and > dishonest in the case of Android which I consider worse. > > Okay, from that perspective I can agree. I think where most people are getting hung up is Microsoft being called anything positive... -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 14:27:48 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:27:48 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare/Need a new modem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > > > > On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: > >> I asked Teksavvy to hook me up to their 15MB service almost three weeks >> ago. >> >> They said that in order to complete this, they would need to send out a >> tech to install a splitter between 12 and 9 pm, April 2. April 2 came, I >> waited, no show. Called the next day, they apologized but said we would >> need to wait another 3 days and still hang at home for nine hours. Okay, we >> wait. Second time, no show. >> >> Now they are saying we need to wait til Tuesday, and again hang out from >> 12 to 9 pm. That ain't gonna happen. >> >> Anyone know something about Teksavvy that can explain why they are being >> so negligent? It's like they've abandoned all effort at actually doing >> anything, and are now focusing on just obtaining more market share. >> >> Also, since my wife works at Bell, we are thinking of getting their >> internet service since we can probably get a break on the price. Any >> thoughts? I know there a lot of emotional and political reasons to avoid >> Bell, but what are the likely technical pitfalls? >> >> Anyway, just feel totally lost at this point. I can't believe Teksavvy >> has declined so precipitously in terms of their customer care. >> >> -- >> Thomas Milne >> > > > Well guess what? It turns out I do not need a splitter at all. Well, maybe > I did, but what I really needed was a NEW MODEM. > > GAAAAAGGGAAARRRRGGGHJHH! > > Okay, now that I've got that out of my system, can anyone tell me where to > get a Speedtouch 516 modem? Canada Computers says they are out of stock. > Someone recommended Tiger Direct but I do not see it on their site. I would > like a Speedtouch so that Teksavvy will support it, I know that supposedly > any ADSL2+ modem should work. > > The saga continues. I guess I've decided to treat Teksavvy the way I would > my children, and so I will try to be patient and understanding of their > youthful carelessness. > > > I just got off the phone with Canada Computers, it turns out they do have one and it is at their location here in Etobicoke. For once I did luck out. In a way. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaelgalea-4VtgCsEi+FIybS5Ee8rs3A at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 14:36:15 2013 From: michaelgalea-4VtgCsEi+FIybS5Ee8rs3A at public.gmane.org (Michael Galea) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:36:15 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: References: <1d39ef9a-27aa-43f4-9aff-68b0ea6eea48@zimbra> Message-ID: <5166CA5F.1010105@ruggedcom.com> On 2013-04-11 09:05, Thomas Milne wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:06 PM, John Moniz > wrote: > > On 04/10/2013 07:22 PM, Anthony Verevkin wrote: > > From: "Thomas Milne" > > I noticed that you are sending from Sympatico. Maybe you can > answer > my actual question, which was about technical drawbacks to their > service. I see Bell adds things like anti-virus and so on on > top of > the service. Those things can sometimes have some unforeseen > negative consequences. > Do you find it generally fast and so on? > > Thomas, I think I could answer your question. I have moved to > the new > apartment a month ago and found that Bell might actually be an > ok choice > for me. I like having fast Internet but I do not download much. So I > took the Bell 15/10 package with 60GB included for $43/mo > promotional, $53 > afterwards. Provided 60GB is enough for me that price was > actually better > than Teksavvy who would also have to charge for the Dry-loop (I > don't pay > that with Bell) and modem rental (Bell gave me the modem for > free and > because they mentioned it is a $100 value deal I am sure I own > it now). > And there is no contract here, just a 30-day notice. > > I checked the speed with iperf towards my Blink connection at > work and > I had a no-loss exchange at the speeds of 14.9/9.9 which is the > way it > should be. > > Bell security was also something I was afraid of but the modem > itself > does not have any more features than what a stock router would have. > Also like with all other Bell routers you can use it in a > pass-through > bridging mode and that's what I am doing, running a full scale Linux > router in a virtual machine which establishes pppoe session and runs > all the firewalling, VPNs, QoS and IPv6 encapsulation and serves > DHCP > back into the router (which is acting as a LAN switch + AP at this > stage). > > There was also an email from Bell with a link where I could have > downloaded their security software for my PC, which I didn't > even check > cause I don't need it. > > I cannot say if they throttle the torrent traffic as I don't do much > torrents - the only movie I have downloaded since went through > overnight > and I can't say if it was fast or not cause I was sleeping :) > > Overall I am fully satisfied with me going with Bell now and if > you are > not going over 60GB/mo (which is a sum of upload and download), then > Bell might actually be cheaper than the "independent" ISPs. > > Regards, > Anthony > > Thomas, just to add to the above, I've been happy with my DSL > service in general (good consistent speeds) but am getting a bit > annoyed with the number of lost connections I've been having lately. > Unfortunately, I don't yet know if it's a problem within my walls or > outside. For example, today my wife complained that the internet > wasn't working. After resetting the modem and two switches (twice), > I got a connection. But it took two resets. I don't know what to > make of it as yet, still have some testing to do. > > > You know, that's the one thing that stands out for me with Teksavvy, and > the one reason I am being more patient with them now. I realized that in > the past 5 years, I have never had more than a brief hiccup, nothing > that required more than restarting the modem. Their customer service > might be horrifyingly incompetent, but it appears that technically they > remain 'on the ball'. > > I really appreciate everyone's input, even though it got a bit silly > here and there. Setting aside the complaints about specific companies, I > don't think any Canadian would disagree that sometimes it seems like we > are living in a technological backwater. It is a shame. > > I'll stop before I say something communist and upset William P. > > Have an awesome day! > > -- > Thomas Milne I'm on Teksavvy and I like them a lot, but I do note the occasional problem. I test the dsl link every hour and reset ppp if its down. I have had two or three such logs in the 14 months I've been with them. Note that these are outages that persist for more than 60 minutes, or I wouldn't detect and log them. And yes, I have seen occasions where nudging ppp restores the link. -- Michael Galea -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 15:18:58 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:18:58 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare In-Reply-To: <1d39ef9a-27aa-43f4-9aff-68b0ea6eea48@zimbra> References: <1d39ef9a-27aa-43f4-9aff-68b0ea6eea48@zimbra> Message-ID: <20130411151858.GW21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 07:22:27PM -0400, Anthony Verevkin wrote: > Thomas, I think I could answer your question. I have moved to the new > apartment a month ago and found that Bell might actually be an ok choice > for me. I like having fast Internet but I do not download much. So I > took the Bell 15/10 package with 60GB included for $43/mo promotional, $53 > afterwards. Provided 60GB is enough for me that price was actually better > than Teksavvy who would also have to charge for the Dry-loop (I don't pay > that with Bell) and modem rental (Bell gave me the modem for free and > because they mentioned it is a $100 value deal I am sure I own it now). > And there is no contract here, just a 30-day notice. > > I checked the speed with iperf towards my Blink connection at work and > I had a no-loss exchange at the speeds of 14.9/9.9 which is the way it > should be. > > Bell security was also something I was afraid of but the modem itself > does not have any more features than what a stock router would have. > Also like with all other Bell routers you can use it in a pass-through > bridging mode and that's what I am doing, running a full scale Linux > router in a virtual machine which establishes pppoe session and runs > all the firewalling, VPNs, QoS and IPv6 encapsulation and serves DHCP > back into the router (which is acting as a LAN switch + AP at this > stage). > > There was also an email from Bell with a link where I could have > downloaded their security software for my PC, which I didn't even check > cause I don't need it. > > I cannot say if they throttle the torrent traffic as I don't do much > torrents - the only movie I have downloaded since went through overnight > and I can't say if it was fast or not cause I was sleeping :) > > Overall I am fully satisfied with me going with Bell now and if you are > not going over 60GB/mo (which is a sum of upload and download), then > Bell might actually be cheaper than the "independent" ISPs. For the same service (if you care about transfer quota), Bell is never the cheapest. Also the horror stories I have read (often here on TLUG) about trying to get Sympatico's billing department to stop taking your money when you cancel the service makes me never want to consider them. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 15:26:33 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 11:26:33 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 09:25:39AM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > I have to say, in 99.9% of cases I 100% agree with your judgement. It is > without fail based on a very thorough, logical and reasonable analysis of > the facts. > > This might be one of the 0.01% where there is a tiny, almost infinitesimal > flaw. I agree, obviously, that Google is dishonest about the way they > portray themselves. I don't know if I would call Microsoft 'honest' about > anything. Apple, well, yes, they do say up front that they have their own > way of doing things. As far as them being better in any way, that's pretty > shaky ground, you must admit. > > I can totally understand why there would be special dislike of Google, and > of course there is consistency in abhorring all of their smartphone > products. > > My question is, would it be possible for Google to operate as open source, > at least with Android, and still operate within the globalized capitalist > framework that supports MS and Apple? Someone should write a research paper > on that. It very well might not be possible to get a consistent product out at the pace they are doing it any other way. But guess what, if they were at least honest enough to not portray android as this wonderful open source wonder, then I would be OK with it. > Personally, I don't think a truly open source project would be tolerated by > post-industrial finance/monopoly capitalism. What cannot be monopolized is > universally rejected. Sure, but none of the router makers or set top boxes for video playback are claiming to be wonderful providers of open source goodness. They happen to use linux because it fits their price needs and features, and at least some of them even have the decency to not violate the license terms and actually release the sources for the open source stuff they used. :) Google does release the open source stuff they have to, although perhaps some of the phone makers aren't so good at that. There were a number of interesting open source smart phone projects taking off when android arived. Now there isn't much left of most of them. After all this wonderful android open source thing is here now, so no need to do these other ones anymore. Except there is. OpenMoko is still kind of around, and looks vaguely tempting, although they sure look stupid. Who designed that case shape. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 16:13:26 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:13:26 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare/Need a new modem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They were happy to support the generic D-Link I got from Canada Computers. The main issue I've had with DSL is that, periodically, /someone/ (either at Bell or Teksavvy) decides to roll out new/standard/upgraded settings, and it causes my modem to drop synch. I know that my line doesn't work well with standard settings, and for some reason Bell/Teksavvy seem to forget this every few months. I have never yet got a clear explanation from either company as to why this has to keep happening. cheers, Stewart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 17:08:42 2013 From: maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org (Maxcess) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 13:08:42 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare/Need a new modem Message-ID: <20130411170842.201830@gmx.com> Something I have noticed with all online stores I have communicated with. There online store is NOT up to date! Ms office 2010 was in stock at tigerdirect, and the router I just got was not on canada computer online list either. I am glad to hear you found one. Abby ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Milne Sent: 04/11/13 10:27 AM To: tlug Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Teksavvy Nightmare/Need a new modem On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Thomas Milne < thomas.bruce.milne at gmail.com > wrote: On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Thomas Milne < thomas.bruce.milne at gmail.com > wrote: I asked Teksavvy to hook me up to their 15MB service almost three weeks ago. They said that in order to complete this, they would need to send out a tech to install a splitter between 12 and 9 pm, April 2. April 2 came, I waited, no show. Called the next day, they apologized but said we would need to wait another 3 days and still hang at home for nine hours. Okay, we wait. Second time, no show. Now they are saying we need to wait til Tuesday, and again hang out from 12 to 9 pm. That ain't gonna happen. Anyone know something about Teksavvy that can explain why they are being so negligent? It's like they've abandoned all effort at actually doing anything, and are now focusing on just obtaining more market share. Also, since my wife works at Bell, we are thinking of getting their internet service since we can probably get a break on the price. Any thoughts? I know there a lot of emotional and political reasons to avoid Bell, but what are the likely technical pitfalls? Anyway, just feel totally lost at this point. I can't believe Teksavvy has declined so precipitously in terms of their customer care. -- Thomas Milne Well guess what? It turns out I do not need a splitter at all. Well, maybe I did, but what I really needed was a NEW MODEM. GAAAAAGGGAAARRRRGGGHJHH! Okay, now that I've got that out of my system, can anyone tell me where to get a Speedtouch 516 modem? Canada Computers says they are out of stock. Someone recommended Tiger Direct but I do not see it on their site. I would like a Speedtouch so that Teksavvy will support it, I know that supposedly any ADSL2+ modem should work. The saga continues. I guess I've decided to treat Teksavvy the way I would my children, and so I will try to be patient and understanding of their youthful carelessness. I just got off the phone with Canada Computers, it turns out they do have one and it is at their location here in Etobicoke. For once I did luck out. In a way. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 17:13:47 2013 From: maxcess-KK0ffGbhmjU at public.gmane.org (Maxcess) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 13:13:47 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare Message-ID: <20130411171347.201800@gmx.com> Bell stole over $300 from and refused to actknowledge the return of the modem and wanted to charge me for that as well. That is why I will never go back to Bell! They know it is not worth it for us to go to small clams court for that stolen money. That $300 was based on a dial up acount many years ago. Abby ----- Original Message ----- From: Lennart Sorensen Sent: 04/11/13 11:18 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Teksavvy Nightmare On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 07:22:27PM -0400, Anthony Verevkin wrote: > Thomas, I think I could answer your question. I have moved to the new > apartment a month ago and found that Bell might actually be an ok choice > for me. I like having fast Internet but I do not download much. So I > took the Bell 15/10 package with 60GB included for $43/mo promotional, $53 > afterwards. Provided 60GB is enough for me that price was actually better > than Teksavvy who would also have to charge for the Dry-loop (I don't pay > that with Bell) and modem rental (Bell gave me the modem for free and > because they mentioned it is a $100 value deal I am sure I own it now). > And there is no contract here, just a 30-day notice. > > I checked the speed with iperf towards my Blink connection at work and > I had a no-loss exchange at the speeds of 14.9/9.9 which is the way it > should be. > > Bell security was also something I was afraid of but the modem itself > does not have any more features than what a stock router would have. > Also like with all other Bell routers you can use it in a pass-through > bridging mode and that's what I am doing, running a full scale Linux > router in a virtual machine which establishes pppoe session and runs > all the firewalling, VPNs, QoS and IPv6 encapsulation and serves DHCP > back into the router (which is acting as a LAN switch + AP at this > stage). > > There was also an email from Bell with a link where I could have > downloaded their security software for my PC, which I didn't even check > cause I don't need it. > > I cannot say if they throttle the torrent traffic as I don't do much > torrents - the only movie I have downloaded since went through overnight > and I can't say if it was fast or not cause I was sleeping :) > > Overall I am fully satisfied with me going with Bell now and if you are > not going over 60GB/mo (which is a sum of upload and download), then > Bell might actually be cheaper than the "independent" ISPs. For the same service (if you care about transfer quota), Bell is never the cheapest. Also the horror stories I have read (often here on TLUG) about trying to get Sympatico's billing department to stop taking your money when you cancel the service makes me never want to consider them. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 18:51:02 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 14:51:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: motherboard ethernet port failing Message-ID: I have a Gigabit GA-P43T-ES3G motherboard (socket 775) with an on-board RTL8111/8168B ethernet controller. The day before yesterday, under Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, the network connection went away. I poked around with Network Manager but had no luck getting it to work. I had two different USB to ethernet adapters that I tried but Ubuntu 10.04 didn't recognize them. The on-board adapter started working again. I took that opportunity to upgrade Ubuntu from 10.04 to 12.04, and that worked. The first USB to ethernet adapter that I tried worked under 12.04. Then eth0 stopped working again. I'm pretty sure that it is the adapter or connector because I did a lot of experiments: - switched ethernet cables - switched ports on the ethernet switch - was able to get other computers to work with the same cable and switch port - (eventually) was able to get this same computer to work with a USB ethernet adapter and the same cable and same switch port There were several reboots during this time. When it is not working, ifconfig shows that the interface is UP. RX packets can be non-zero but TX packets are 0. I never see any error count. Here's an example: eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 1c:6f:65:a0:67:27 UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:29 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:3750 (3.7 KB) TX bytes:0 (0.0 B) Interrupt:45 Base address:0xc000 Notice that no address has been assigned (normally done by my DHCP server). 'mii-tool -v eth0' says: eth0: no link product info: vendor 00:07:32, model 17 rev 2 basic mode: autonegotiation enabled basic status: no link capabilities: 1000baseT-HD 1000baseT-FD 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD advertising: 1000baseT-FD 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD flow-control link partner: 1000baseT-HD 1000baseT-FD 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD flow-control 'sudo mii-tool -w eth0' says: 20:12:28 eth0: no link 20:12:38 eth0: negotiated 100baseTx-FD flow-control, link ok 20:12:39 eth0: no link 20:12:46 eth0: negotiated 10baseT-FD flow-control, link ok 20:12:47 eth0: negotiated 10baseT-FD flow-control, link ok 20:13:11 eth0: no link 20:15:11 eth0: negotiated 10baseT-FD flow-control, link ok 20:15:12 eth0: negotiated 10baseT-FD flow-control, link ok 20:15:51 eth0: no link 20:17:57 eth0: negotiated 10baseT-FD flow-control, link ok 20:17:58 eth0: negotiated 10baseT-FD flow-control, link ok 20:18:30 eth0: no link >From my observations, I think that it is a hardware problem on the motherboard. It could just be the connector. Does anyone have an idea of what's likely going on and whether it might be something easily fixed? Any suggestions for experiments? (I don't want to break the machine: it is a "production" MythTV box. The USB interface solution is OK. The box doesn't have any available PCI or PCIe slots.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 18:59:52 2013 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 14:59:52 -0400 Subject: motherboard ethernet port failing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51670828.6040801@alteeve.ca> I've had lots of Realtek NICs fail. I now avoid them like the plague. For my last mainboard for home, I spent quite some time looking for a board without a Realtek NIC on it. You can get a nice Intel PCIe NIC for <$40. It's night-and-day better, quality and performance wise. http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106033 I've bought dozens of them and have had only one fail, and that was after it got tossed around outside a static bag for quite some time. So yes, I would not at all be surprised if your NIC was dead. On 04/11/2013 02:51 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I have a Gigabit GA-P43T-ES3G motherboard (socket 775) with an > on-board RTL8111/8168B ethernet controller. > > The day before yesterday, under Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, the network > connection went away. I poked around with Network Manager but had no > luck getting it to work. > > I had two different USB to ethernet adapters that I tried but Ubuntu > 10.04 didn't recognize them. > > The on-board adapter started working again. I took that opportunity to > upgrade Ubuntu from 10.04 to 12.04, and that worked. The first USB to > ethernet adapter that I tried worked under 12.04. > > Then eth0 stopped working again. > > I'm pretty sure that it is the adapter or connector because I did a lot of > experiments: > > - switched ethernet cables > > - switched ports on the ethernet switch > > - was able to get other computers to work with the same cable and > switch port > > - (eventually) was able to get this same computer to work with a USB > ethernet adapter and the same cable and same switch port > > There were several reboots during this time. > > When it is not working, ifconfig shows that the interface is UP. RX > packets can be non-zero but TX packets are 0. I never see any error > count. Here's an example: > eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 1c:6f:65:a0:67:27 > UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > RX packets:29 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 > TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 > RX bytes:3750 (3.7 KB) TX bytes:0 (0.0 B) > Interrupt:45 Base address:0xc000 > Notice that no address has been assigned (normally done by my DHCP server). > > 'mii-tool -v eth0' says: > eth0: no link > product info: vendor 00:07:32, model 17 rev 2 > basic mode: autonegotiation enabled > basic status: no link > capabilities: 1000baseT-HD 1000baseT-FD 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD > advertising: 1000baseT-FD 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD flow-control > link partner: 1000baseT-HD 1000baseT-FD 100baseTx-FD 100baseTx-HD 10baseT-FD 10baseT-HD flow-control > > 'sudo mii-tool -w eth0' says: > 20:12:28 eth0: no link > 20:12:38 eth0: negotiated 100baseTx-FD flow-control, link ok > 20:12:39 eth0: no link > 20:12:46 eth0: negotiated 10baseT-FD flow-control, link ok > 20:12:47 eth0: negotiated 10baseT-FD flow-control, link ok > 20:13:11 eth0: no link > 20:15:11 eth0: negotiated 10baseT-FD flow-control, link ok > 20:15:12 eth0: negotiated 10baseT-FD flow-control, link ok > 20:15:51 eth0: no link > 20:17:57 eth0: negotiated 10baseT-FD flow-control, link ok > 20:17:58 eth0: negotiated 10baseT-FD flow-control, link ok > 20:18:30 eth0: no link > > > From my observations, I think that it is a hardware problem on the > motherboard. It could just be the connector. > > Does anyone have an idea of what's likely going on and whether it > might be something easily fixed? > > Any suggestions for experiments? > > (I don't want to break the machine: it is a "production" MythTV box. > The USB interface solution is OK. The box doesn't have any available > PCI or PCIe slots.) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/ What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 23:51:30 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:51:30 -0400 Subject: motherboard ethernet port failing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130411235130.GA14428@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 02:51:02PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > - (eventually) was able to get this same computer to work with a USB > ethernet adapter and the same cable and same switch port ... > >From my observations, I think that it is a hardware problem on the > motherboard. It could just be the connector. > > Does anyone have an idea of what's likely going on and whether it > might be something easily fixed? > > Any suggestions for experiments? > > (I don't want to break the machine: it is a "production" MythTV box. > The USB interface solution is OK. The box doesn't have any available > PCI or PCIe slots.) If USB-to-Ethernet adapter is working, why not keep that as is? I was going to suggest get a ethernet card, but no slot. Time to swap the motherboard? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 11 23:56:36 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:56:36 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130411152633.GX21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > > There were a number of interesting open source smart phone projects taking > off when android arived. Now there isn't much left of most of them. > After all this wonderful android open source thing is here now, so no > need to do these other ones anymore. Think that would have happened either way. The pure open source projects were driven by Nokia and you know what happened to them. So, without android, most likely dormant platform would to Windows. I sincerely wouldn't think of a scenario we would have come out better. > > OpenMoko is still kind of around, and looks vaguely tempting, although > they sure look stupid. Who designed that case shape. What do you think of Tizen? Open source enough in your opinion? That is the only viable alternative I think has money behind to live. On a lighter note, you may end up living your whole life without a smartphone :) People change views though with time. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- William > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 00:23:49 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:23:49 -0400 Subject: motherboard ethernet port failing In-Reply-To: <20130411235130.GA14428-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20130411235130.GA14428@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: > > Does anyone have an idea of what's likely going on and whether it > > might be something easily fixed? > > > > Any suggestions for experiments? Its hardware issue. Have seen it happen with the same card on a friend's Asterisk box. Couldn't think of anything so installed a Intel brand on pci slot. > > > > (I don't want to break the machine: it is a "production" MythTV box. > > The USB interface solution is OK. The box doesn't have any available > > PCI or PCIe slots.) That kind of sucks > > If USB-to-Ethernet adapter is working, why not keep that as is? > > I was going to suggest get a ethernet card, but no slot. Time to swap > the motherboard? Probably, since running a myth TV on USB network is a stretch. Those think can't do gigabyte / sec but I guess ISP link can't either. > -- > William > -- William > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 01:04:07 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 21:04:07 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 7:56 PM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > There were a number of interesting open source smart phone projects > taking > > off when android arived. Now there isn't much left of most of them. > > After all this wonderful android open source thing is here now, so no > > need to do these other ones anymore. > > Think that would have happened either way. The pure open source projects > were driven by Nokia and you know what happened to them. So, without > android, most likely dormant platform would to Windows. I sincerely > wouldn't think of a scenario we would have come out better. > > Yep, I think that's a mighty good point. Consider what has happened to the "general purpose" operating system 'market'; between Microsoft salting the earth on the academic side, by hiring away everyone they could that was doing novel OS research (the most critical name being Rick Raschid, of Mach and CMU fame), and pretty actively undermining other OS vendors (VMS->WNT, Novell), and Linux providing a potent "loss leader", there's vanishingly small room in between for the survival of anything else, certainly not OSes that are sold for a profit. (Apple makes their money on other parts of the transaction, much as is true for all of the remaining UNIX(tm) vendors.) As much as I liked the idea of OpenMoko, I don't think it was remotely close to being a mainstream thing. It is amazing to me that they have done any further upgrades to the hardware. It was an interesting proof of concept, but I'm unsurprised that they're near impossible to buy. Nokia's flirtation with Linux was also interesting, but they never got *close* to serious enough to bet any of the company on it. The moment things got tough, it was many times more tempting to donate the remains of their future to Microsoft. Further, this misses an enormous elephant in the room, namely that the mobile carriers have history of being dramatically controlling of what they allow their supplicants^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^hcustomers to have in Their Ultra Proprietary Service. It took a paranoid control freak like Steve Jobs, defending the "right" to have a proprietary Apple App Store that wasn't instead a fully-controlled-and-labelled product of each individual carrier to make things arguably a lot more "open" than they were before. (PalmOS was probably also somewhat involved, tho iPhone was the thing that most visibly smashed down barriers at the carriers.) The fact that users of Android phones have a capability altogether to install packages that weren't distributed to them by the operator of their mobile network means that there's an "openness" to Android that I don't have to be squinting sideways to pretend I'm perceiving that indicates that it, as deployed platform, is orders of magnitude more "free and open" than things used to be (back in the days pre-iPhone) and generally a lot more "free and open" than is the case for any of the present mainstream phone platforms. That doesn't make Android "free as in 'RMS-would-approve'"; with the broad rapacity of the mobile carriers, nothing of that sort was ever likely to be more than a curiosity. I don't think Maemo was "free enough" for RMS' purposes, and I'm not sure that OpenMoko was, either, as I expect they still had proprietary bits as consequence of needing to interface to proprietary radio hardware and the like. > > > > OpenMoko is still kind of around, and looks vaguely tempting, although > > they sure look stupid. Who designed that case shape. > > What do you think of Tizen? Open source enough in your opinion? That is > the only viable alternative I think has money behind to live. > I doubt it; that's presumably going to turn out to be filled with Samsung's "tentacles," and I don't see any reason to think they have a cultural affinity to produce open source software in the long run (I'm not thinking of this as a "Korean versus anything else thing; just that Samsung's a huge, tough-competing conglomerate that's not likely to drop everything to become all about OSS). If you require your phone to be "truly totally free software," then: a) There never have been any mainstream options, OpenMoko being maybe the nearest, and b) As long as there are hard-competing mobile carriers prepared to throw billions of dollars around to try to destroy their opponents, it's unlikely that any will ever emerge. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 04:21:31 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne ... writes much that I find interesting and agree with. But this message is about quibbles. | On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 7:56 PM, William Muriithi wrote: | | > > There were a number of interesting open source smart phone projects | > taking | > > off when android arived. Now there isn't much left of most of them. | > > After all this wonderful android open source thing is here now, so no | > > need to do these other ones anymore. | > | > Think that would have happened either way. The pure open source projects | > were driven by Nokia and you know what happened to them. Nokia wasn't pure open source. | > So, without | > android, most likely dormant platform would to Windows. I sincerely | > wouldn't think of a scenario we would have come out better. Android would have smothered any other choices, so we don't know them. | Consider what has happened to the "general purpose" operating system | 'market'; Your points are good. I wonder if that's sufficiently similar to the mobile world. In the PC world, things that are shared between users often require the same OS: (MS Office documents, programs, ...). Not always (.pdf, ...). The network effect exerts a strong gravitational pull. In the mobile world, shared things less often depend on the OS: web pages, Facebook, Twitter, DropBox, Amazon, .mp3 files (oh, wait, you are not supposed to share those). So maybe the network effect isn't the same. BTW, I actually think your analogy applies to the compiler world too. | As much as I liked the idea of OpenMoko, I don't think it was remotely | close to being a mainstream thing. It is amazing to me that they have done | any further upgrades to the hardware. It was an interesting proof of | concept, but I'm unsurprised that they're near impossible to buy. 1) The idea that the end user was the customer was alien to the mobile handset business. Too bad! 2) I was told "systems are like waffles: plan to throw the first one away". Unfortunately, OpenMoko could not afford to do that. I was told that they couldn't even afford the retooling to modify the case. There were a lot of mistakes: - the quad-band radio they were promised was only tri-band - the promise of complete specs they were given by the parts makers were not honored in all cases. - they changed their GUI framework about halfway in about three times (so they had four halves of work to do) - their angel (FIC of Taiwan) withdrew And those are only the ones I heard of and remember. | Nokia's flirtation with Linux was also interesting, but they never got | *close* to serious enough to bet any of the company on it. Yeah, but the N900 worked, was sold (slightly), and apparently was wonderful (according to biased reports). Kind of like the Avro Arrow? | The moment | things got tough, it was many times more tempting to donate the remains of | their future to Microsoft. There is a bitter theory that Elop was a trojan horse. Certainly they suffered very badly from the Osborne Effect (promising something long before being able to ship it, and hence killing sales between now and then). Except there's even evidence that sales didn't actually pick up at the far side of the valley. Ouch. | Further, this misses an enormous elephant in the room, namely that the | mobile carriers have history of being dramatically controlling of what they | allow their supplicants^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^hcustomers to have in Their | Ultra Proprietary Service. It appears to me as if it is a sheep / shepherd relationship. Most carrier seem to "subsidize" preferred phones. Consumers are stupid enough to accept this rather expensive financing. I guess five years ago "Bring Your Own Device" was not always possible. GSM certainly helped (necessary?). I don't follow it closely, but "data" has had a bunch of gotchas. | That doesn't make Android "free as in 'RMS-would-approve'"; with the broad | rapacity of the mobile carriers Not to mention that DRM requires at least a closed component, and DRM seems to be important. Except in music, for some reason that is surprising but promising. | I don't think Maemo was "free enough" for RMS' | purposes, and I'm not sure that OpenMoko was, either, as I expect they | still had proprietary bits as consequence of needing to interface to | proprietary radio hardware and the like. No. The radio is done by a different processor ("baseband processor"). The smart stuff talks to the baseband using the Hayes "AT" command set! I understand that is true in all smart phones (or was at one time). The FreeRunner had a little proprietary hardware due to suppliers reneging on promises. I think that the video was part of that. But really, the FreeRunner is so obsolete that it doesn't matter. I don't know anything about the update (GT04). | > What do you think of Tizen? Open source enough in your opinion? That is | > the only viable alternative I think has money behind to live. | > | I doubt it; that's presumably going to turn out to be filled with Samsung's | "tentacles," and I don't see any reason to think they have a cultural | affinity to produce open source software in the long run (I'm not thinking | of this as a "Korean versus anything else thing; just that Samsung's a | huge, tough-competing conglomerate that's not likely to drop everything to | become all about OSS). I remember seeing a reasonable Samsung contingent at Linux Symposium some years ago. That's a very modest good sign. | If you require your phone to be "truly totally free software," then: I think that some Android platforms are almost open enough to do a software transplant. Think of OpenWRT as a model. Ubuntu seems to be trying that, but they probably were invited to sign NDAs and accepted. That's not going to be offered to XDA folks. Mozilla is also bootstrapping from Android phones. Reverse engineering progress is real but it might not match the speed at which new proprietary subsystems are being introduced. | b) As long as there are hard-competing mobile carriers prepared to throw | billions of dollars around to try to destroy their opponents, it's unlikely | that any will ever emerge. I think the carriers might welcome customers that don't require a subsidy. Most seem happy to let you BYOD. I think that their business models have evolved. I think that they hate Apple for the level of subsidy that is involved but have to play that game because a large number of customers want iPhones. Carriers probably love Android for moderating this effect. I hate Android (and IOS) for operating in the interest of everyone but the phone user: advertisers, Google, Facebook, CSIS, NSA, ... I have a dream that BlackBerry could make an ecosystem where the phones worked for the user (or perhaps their employer). It would be a continuation of their past strength. But it is much more likely that they will desperately try to imitate Android and IOS. Not that BlackBerry is open. I actually think that the spyware dimension is more important than the open dimension (but ultimately, open may be required for trust -- think how much we trust Skype). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 10:17:40 2013 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 06:17:40 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:21 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Christopher Browne > > ... writes much that I find interesting and agree with. But this message > is about quibbles. > > | On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 7:56 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > | > | > > There were a number of interesting open source smart phone projects > | > taking > | > > off when android arived. Now there isn't much left of most of them. [...] > BTW, I actually think your analogy applies to the compiler world too. > Interesting point. Could you expand a little here? [...] > It appears to me as if it is a sheep / shepherd relationship. Most > carrier seem to "subsidize" preferred phones. Consumers are stupid > enough to accept this rather expensive financing. > I find it curious that T-Mobile's incorporation of iPhone on the 1700 band is coinciding with the elimination of subsidies on ALL their smart phones: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57557754-94/on-t-mobile-killing-the-subsidy-its-about-time/ > I guess five years ago "Bring Your Own Device" was not always > possible. GSM certainly helped (necessary?). > > I don't follow it closely, but "data" has had a bunch of gotchas. > For the carriers you mean? -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 14:34:18 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 10:34:18 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130412143418.GY21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 07:56:36PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Think that would have happened either way. The pure open source projects > were driven by Nokia and you know what happened to them. So, without > android, most likely dormant platform would to Windows. I sincerely > wouldn't think of a scenario we would have come out better. I didn't even consider the stuff nokia was involved in. I am sure there were projects other than openmoko around, although perhaps none had gotten too far (It seems the makers of cell phone hardware bits are just highly unfriendly in general). > What do you think of Tizen? Open source enough in your opinion? That is > the only viable alternative I think has money behind to live. Certainly reading about it, it sounds like "certainly not". > On a lighter note, you may end up living your whole life without a > smartphone :) People change views though with time. Well I certainly don't want to dial from a touch screen. It certainly has been very rare that I have thought a smartphone would have been handy to have. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 14:50:04 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 10:50:04 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:21:31AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Not that BlackBerry is open. I actually think that the spyware > dimension is more important than the open dimension (but ultimately, > open may be required for trust -- think how much we trust Skype). I trust skype not at all and won't allow it near any of my devices. Also the stupid peer to peer protocol it uses is a network admin's nightmare. That alone is enough to want to ban it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 15:23:28 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:23:28 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130412143418.GY21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412143418.GY21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <516826F0.6000205@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well I certainly don't want to dial from a touch screen. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wagado.old_phone&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDEsImNvbS53YWdhZG8ub2xkX3Bob25lIl0. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 15:28:08 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:28:08 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130412145004.GZ21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:21:31AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> Not that BlackBerry is open. I actually think that the spyware >> dimension is more important than the open dimension (but ultimately, >> open may be required for trust -- think how much we trust Skype). > I trust skype not at all and won't allow it near any of my devices. > Also the stupid peer to peer protocol it uses is a network admin's > nightmare. That alone is enough to want to ban it. > I prefer Google Talk, but I have Skype because a friend of mine uses it. She must be one of the very few people in this world without a GMail account. Also, there's a new video chat method that works with browsers (currently Chrome and development versions of Firefox). http://conversat.io/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 15:38:46 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:38:46 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <516826F0.6000205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412143418.GY21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516826F0.6000205@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130412153846.GA21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 11:23:28AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wagado.old_phone&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDEsImNvbS53YWdhZG8ub2xkX3Bob25lIl0. > ;-) Putting a horrible interface onto a touch screen just makes it worse. I only want phones that have actual buttons for dialing numbers. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 16:36:50 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:36:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Alejandro Imass | On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:21 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > | From: Christopher Browne | > BTW, I actually think your analogy applies to the compiler world too. | | Interesting point. Could you expand a little here? There used to be a lot of compiler vendors. Ones that hoped to make a business of it. Microsoft on one side and GCC on the other killed that business. Borland had some good products and went down. Watcom had some, they too augered in. Etc. | > It appears to me as if it is a sheep / shepherd relationship. Most | > carrier seem to "subsidize" preferred phones. Consumers are stupid | > enough to accept this rather expensive financing. | > | | I find it curious that T-Mobile's incorporation of iPhone on the 1700 | band is coinciding with the elimination of subsidies on ALL their | smart phones: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57557754-94/on-t-mobile-killing-the-subsidy-its-about-time/ Sorry, I don't understand this. Is this related to 1700 being T-Mobile-only or the reverse or something else. My own ignorance. On the surface, T-Mobile's move looks to appeal to people being tired of the shell game of subsidies. Maybe some sheep are getting a little wiser in the US. Maybe its just a desperation move. | > I guess five years ago "Bring Your Own Device" was not always | > possible. GSM certainly helped (necessary?). | > | > I don't follow it closely, but "data" has had a bunch of gotchas. | | For the carriers you mean? That too: SIP over data can mess up their model. Messaging over data as well. But what I meant is that the carriers put all sorts of restrictions on data. I don't know them all, but some include caps on data that are low, expensive bytes over the cap, forcing proxy use, blocking ports, traffic shaping. I also don't really understand all the different data standards that add to the fragmentation of the market. All GSM phones work with all GSM carriers as long as (1) the frequency bands match, and (2) the carrier doesn't intentionally prevent. With data, I think that there are a whole bunch of technologies, with some level of backward compatability -- I don't really know the paths through that jungle. Note: I'm not a cell phone expert. I may be all wrong. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 16:44:53 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:44:53 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51683A05.8070706@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > That too: SIP over data can mess up their model. Messaging over data > as well. Actually, that's the plan for 4G. Those phones will use VoIP as the main voice method. This will allow carriers to phase out the old UTMS/POTS type connection. This will also bring the various benefits of VoIP, particularly when IPv6 becomes available on the cell network. For example, with mobile IP, you could start a call on your home WiFi, then as you go out the door, switch to the cell network and then onto your work WiFi, without interrupting your call. It's now possible to run VoIP over the cell network and video chat too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 16:54:40 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:54:40 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51683C50.5020708@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > But what I meant is that the carriers put all sorts of restrictions on > data. I don't know them all, but some include caps on data that are > low, expensive bytes over the cap, forcing proxy use, blocking ports, > traffic shaping. You can get various data plans from the carriers. The more you pay, the more you can use, though prices in Canada are high, compared to elsewhere (yeah, so what else is new). I haven't experienced any blocked ports and can tether my notebook or tablet to my phone for access to the Internet. What do you mean by proxy in this context? One thing Rogers does is provide RFC1918 addresses to cell phone users. This should change when they make IPv6 available. > I also don't really understand all the different data standards that > add to the fragmentation of the market. All GSM phones work with all > GSM carriers as long as (1) the frequency bands match, and (2) the > carrier doesn't intentionally prevent. With data, I think that there > are a whole bunch of technologies, with some level of backward > compatability -- I don't really know the paths through that jungle. There are different standards as a result of evolution. With 2G phones (GSM etc.) their was only limited bandwidth available, as the data had to be carried over standard GSM channels. Then came 3G phones, which use a couple of generations of HSPA. Now with LTE, there are some, but not all of the 4G features, including greater bandwidth and lower latency. As for compatibility, I have a Google Nexus One, which runs HSPA & UTMS, but can fall back to GSM. The same phone will work on Bell & Telus, but without fall back to their old CDMA network. LTE phones will fall back to HSPA etc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 16:56:47 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:56:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130412143418.GY21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412143418.GY21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | > On a lighter note, you may end up living your whole life without a | > smartphone :) People change views though with time. | | Well I certainly don't want to dial from a touch screen. Apparently people don't spend most of their phone time dialing. So optimizing for dialing is actually a mistake. For webbish uses, you want all the screen you can get. But, in fact, most of the time you are just carrying a phone, not using it. So that application needs to be optimized: make it small and rugged as possible. But wait, it is a fashion accessory. Make it beautiful and branded. | It certainly has been very rare that I have thought a smartphone would | have been handy to have. As an old guy, I don't need a phone to be constantly in contact with my community. I think under-30 folks would be left out without a phone (and Facebook). I really like having a smart phone when I'm out of the house. I want to be able to access the internet. But I leave it off! I turn it on when I need the internet, which is actually rare but unpredicable. That makes the smartphone a luxury (but I manage to pay only $0.25/day for "unlimited" internet access and almost nothing for the phone plan (because I don't use it)). Because of needing to handle emergencies, I started to also carry a dumb flip phone a while back. It has to be on all the time for this application. It has buttons but I dial it so rarely that I'm not particularly comfortable with them. I hate that I'm tracked. If you need a mobile phone just for voice, a dumb flip phone is great: - rugged (self-protecting) - long long battery life - not worth stealing - has real buttons - optimized for the task (simple menu etc.) - cheap -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 17:00:53 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <51682808.2080801-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | Lennart Sorensen wrote: | > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:21:31AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > > open may be required for trust -- think how much we trust Skype). | > I trust skype not at all and won't allow it near any of my devices. | > Also the stupid peer to peer protocol it uses is a network admin's | > nightmare. That alone is enough to want to ban it. | > | | I prefer Google Talk, but I have Skype because a friend of mine uses it. Google Talk certainly isn't a route to more security. What were you thinking? | She | must be one of the very few people in this world without a GMail account. Many are coerced into having a GMail account. You cannot get Android apps without one, for example. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 17:08:00 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <51683C50.5020708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51683C50.5020708@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | What do you mean | by proxy in this context? For example, the way people have get general net access when using 7-Eleven's Speak Out phone plans. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 17:27:41 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:27:41 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:00 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Many are coerced into having a GMail account. You cannot get Android > apps without one, for example. While I prefer Google's products to most others, I absolutely agree with the above. I want a smartphone that is not tied to any online service providers (ie. Google, Apple, Microsoft, Blackberry). I'm starting to get a bit impatient waiting for news about Firefox OS phones in Canada. As a non-profit, I'd be willing to trust Mozilla a bit more than the others above. I'd also still like to try Plan 9/Inferno "Hellaphone" , just need to find a Nexus S. -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 18:05:36 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:05:36 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412143418.GY21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130412180536.GB21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:56:47PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Apparently people don't spend most of their phone time dialing. So > optimizing for dialing is actually a mistake. > > For webbish uses, you want all the screen you can get. > > But, in fact, most of the time you are just carrying a phone, not > using it. So that application needs to be optimized: make it small > and rugged as possible. > > But wait, it is a fashion accessory. Make it beautiful and branded. > > As an old guy, I don't need a phone to be constantly in contact with > my community. I think under-30 folks would be left out without a > phone (and Facebook). They might feel left out. That isn't the same as being left out. > I really like having a smart phone when I'm out of the house. I want > to be able to access the internet. But I leave it off! I turn it on > when I need the internet, which is actually rare but unpredicable. > That makes the smartphone a luxury (but I manage to pay only $0.25/day > for "unlimited" internet access and almost nothing for the phone plan > (because I don't use it)). > > Because of needing to handle emergencies, I started to also carry a dumb > flip phone a while back. It has to be on all the time for this > application. It has buttons but I dial it so rarely that I'm not > particularly comfortable with them. I hate that I'm tracked. > > If you need a mobile phone just for voice, a dumb flip phone is great: > - rugged (self-protecting) > - long long battery life > - not worth stealing > - has real buttons > - optimized for the task (simple menu etc.) > - cheap For the people I call most, I just dial the number. I can't be bothered to use the address book. Of course I also don't usually even look at the phone while dialing, because I can actually feel the buttons. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 18:07:02 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:07:02 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51684D46.80304@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | I prefer Google Talk, but I have Skype because a friend of mine uses it. > > Google Talk certainly isn't a route to more security. What were you > thinking? It's not Microsoft. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 18:08:38 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:08:38 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130412180838.GC21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:36:50PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > There used to be a lot of compiler vendors. Ones that hoped to make a > business of it. Microsoft on one side and GCC on the other killed > that business. > > Borland had some good products and went down. Watcom had some, they > too augered in. Etc. Windows becoming popular killed a lot of things. A lot of the compiler vendors (Watcom, Borland, etc) were too slow to see windows as an important part of the market, and by the time they figured it out, visualstudio had become entrenched, > Sorry, I don't understand this. Is this related to 1700 being > T-Mobile-only or the reverse or something else. My own ignorance. > > On the surface, T-Mobile's move looks to appeal to people being tired > of the shell game of subsidies. Maybe some sheep are getting a little > wiser in the US. Maybe its just a desperation move. I would love to see sensible prices for the plans, and phones costing what they cost. Then you can upgrade your phone when you want to, and you can keep a phone for alonger time if you are nice to it and don't care to have the latest and greatest all the time. > That too: SIP over data can mess up their model. Messaging over data > as well. Sure, because they are charging too much for voice calls in the first place. > But what I meant is that the carriers put all sorts of restrictions on > data. I don't know them all, but some include caps on data that are > low, expensive bytes over the cap, forcing proxy use, blocking ports, > traffic shaping. > > I also don't really understand all the different data standards that > add to the fragmentation of the market. All GSM phones work with all > GSM carriers as long as (1) the frequency bands match, and (2) the > carrier doesn't intentionally prevent. With data, I think that there > are a whole bunch of technologies, with some level of backward > compatability -- I don't really know the paths through that jungle. > > Note: I'm not a cell phone expert. I may be all wrong. It certainly does get complicated with so many bands and standards. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 18:10:04 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:10:04 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <51682808.2080801-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130412181004.GD21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 11:28:08AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > I prefer Google Talk, but I have Skype because a friend of mine uses > it. She must be one of the very few people in this world without a > GMail account. Also, there's a new video chat method that works > with browsers (currently Chrome and development versions of > Firefox). > > http://conversat.io/ If anyone susggest using skype, I tell them exactly what is wrong with skype. I don't indulge people who have made bad choices. I have no problem with SIP, and I have no problem with google's video chat and use both. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 18:10:30 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:10:30 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51683C50.5020 708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51684E16.2020201@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | What do you mean > | by proxy in this context? > > For example, the way people have get general net access when using > 7-Eleven's Speak Out phone plans. I have never had that problem with my smart phone on Rogers. I have used many different protocols besides http, including https, ssh, imaps, smtps, sftp and even 6in4 tunnel, which is IP protocol 41. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 18:10:53 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:10:53 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 01:00:53PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Google Talk certainly isn't a route to more security. What were you > thinking? And you think skype is? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 18:13:42 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:13:42 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130412180838.GC21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412180838.GC21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51684ED6.4080201@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On the surface, T-Mobile's move looks to appeal to people being tired >> >of the shell game of subsidies. Maybe some sheep are getting a little >> >wiser in the US. Maybe its just a desperation move. > I would love to see sensible prices for the plans, and phones costing > what they cost. Then you can upgrade your phone when you want to, and > you can keep a phone for alonger time if you are nice to it and don't > care to have the latest and greatest all the time. > That's what I have done. I bought my phone outright from Google and my plan from Rogers is much better than what's available with a "free" phone. I generally get a new phone every 5 years or so, so I have a couple more to go on this one. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 19:53:52 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130412181053.GE21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | Not that BlackBerry is open. I actually think that the spyware | dimension is more important than the open dimension (but ultimately, | open may be required for trust -- think how much we trust Skype). | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 01:00:53PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Google Talk certainly isn't a route to more security. What were you | > thinking? | | And you think skype is? No, I certainly don't. That was my original point. Thanks for pointing out that I wasn't clear. Skype was understood to have end-to-end encryption at one point, exactly what one should want. Nobody actually knew because the protocol was undisclosed. I now believe that it does NOT have end-to-end encryption but is open to (at least) "Lawful Access" by governments. In any case, because it was closed and undisclosed, nobody could be sure of anything good. Which means one should assume the worst. (Encryption is technically easy but authentication is where all the challenges are. Authentication is the weakest link. Without authentication, encryption is useless against man-in-the-middle attacks. I don't know a darned thing about Skype authentication.) We (most TLUGgers?) give the benefit of the doubt to small players (the original Skype) but distrust bigger players (Ebay). But we reserve our greatest distrust for the Great Satan, Microsoft. These blind us to the fact that any player can do bad or good, often for reasons unrelated to whether they are bad or good. | From: Lennart Sorensen | If anyone susggest using skype, I tell them exactly what is wrong | with skype. I don't indulge people who have made bad choices. We agree that Skype has bad aspects. Do we agree on what those are? I've outlined mine above. You object to the distributed nature: leaching resources from the users, I think. I'm not sure of the current Skype architecture. I have the impression that Microsoft has moved a lot of stuff from leached user machines to their own servers. Skype is something that one gets dragged into. If you need to talk to someone who only has Skype, for example. It is reputed to be really good at getting through NAT and firewalls without the requirement for a skilled operator. And it is kind of free as in beer. | I have no problem with SIP, The SIP infrastructure is a bit weak. It isn't conventional to have end-to-end encryption and I don't know of universally accepted protocols for negotiating encrypted links. Furthermore, dealing with NAT has gotten middlemen involved in each call. Quality of Service with SIP hasn't been that great in my experience. Skype is reputed to be better. Finally, one strength of SIP has been that ITSPs can offer you "DID"s (plain old phone numbers). But that forces middlemen on you for those calls. | and I have no problem with google's video | chat and use both. I don't want my communications to be "owned" by a company, especially one that is a sole provider. Especially one that makes its living selling user profiles to advertisers. Even if all your "content" is end-to-end encrypted, traffic analysis is a powerful surveillance tool. This is the equivalent to "pen register" for phone surveillance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 20:07:19 2013 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 16:07:19 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:36 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Alejandro Imass > > | On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:21 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | > | From: Christopher Browne > > | > BTW, I actually think your analogy applies to the compiler world too. > | > | Interesting point. Could you expand a little here? > > There used to be a lot of compiler vendors. Ones that hoped to make a > business of it. Microsoft on one side and GCC on the other killed > that business. > OK, I see where you're coming from. > Borland had some good products and went down. Watcom had some, they > too augered in. Etc. > Yep, I remember that time clearly. > | > It appears to me as if it is a sheep / shepherd relationship. Most > | > carrier seem to "subsidize" preferred phones. Consumers are stupid > | > enough to accept this rather expensive financing. > | > > | > | I find it curious that T-Mobile's incorporation of iPhone on the 1700 > | band is coinciding with the elimination of subsidies on ALL their > | smart phones: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57557754-94/on-t-mobile-killing-the-subsidy-its-about-time/ > > Sorry, I don't understand this. Is this related to 1700 being > T-Mobile-only or the reverse or something else. My own ignorance. > Up to now Apple had refused to make an iPhone for 1700 HSDPA for some reason that I still don't understand very well. Smaller vendors such as Wind here could not provide iPhone until now. Anyway, the point is that T-Mobile is removing subsidies for ALL their smartphones almost at the same time it's releasing the iPhone on their HSDPA networks. Maybe it has something to do with the deal with Apple and maybe not, but it can be read in many ways. > On the surface, T-Mobile's move looks to appeal to people being tired > of the shell game of subsidies. Maybe some sheep are getting a little > wiser in the US. Maybe its just a desperation move. > Well, I'm more concerned on the survival of Wind and surely the iPhone will get a lot of people on their network. Now both Mobilicity and Wind are up for sale and apparently Mobilicity is already in bed with Telus. > | > I guess five years ago "Bring Your Own Device" was not always > | > possible. GSM certainly helped (necessary?). > | > > | > I don't follow it closely, but "data" has had a bunch of gotchas. > | > | For the carriers you mean? > > That too: SIP over data can mess up their model. Messaging over data > as well. > > But what I meant is that the carriers put all sorts of restrictions on > data. I don't know them all, but some include caps on data that are > low, expensive bytes over the cap, forcing proxy use, blocking ports, > traffic shaping. > That seems to be changing. In the U.S. the FCC has acted both in 2010 and 2011 and probably those 'models' are finding their way here little by little. > I also don't really understand all the different data standards that > add to the fragmentation of the market. All GSM phones work with all > GSM carriers as long as (1) the frequency bands match, and (2) the > carrier doesn't intentionally prevent. With data, I think that there > are a whole bunch of technologies, with some level of backward > compatability -- I don't really know the paths through that jungle. > I think GSM has two distinct frequency options but are all compatible at some level. For example a current iPhone will work on Wind but will get only "Edge" speeds because it's missing the 1700 band. Why Apple didn't make the iPhone a multi-band device and use HSDPA networks. Maybe that was part of their deal with AT&T. > Note: I'm not a cell phone expert. I may be all wrong. Neither am I, but I just want Wind to survive to any news on T-Mobile is relevant to that end. -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 20:13:30 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 16:13:30 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130412201330.GF21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 03:53:52PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > We agree that Skype has bad aspects. Do we agree on what those are? > I've outlined mine above. You object to the distributed nature: > leaching resources from the users, I think. Actually my problems with skype are: - The protocol is awful. Random ports doing peer to peer traffic. Even if you want to allow it on your network, it's hard to do that because it is totally random. - Skype clearly has been trying to become the VoIP system excluding all others. Never mind that SIP and H.323 and all that had existed for years and everyone else (even Microsoft) was following a standard. Skype did their own thing and then advertised the hell out of it to get lots of users locked in to their private VoIP world of no choices. I am actually not surprised Microsoft ended up owning in the end given Skype's business practice looked like a perfect clone of how Microsoft has always operated. - Of course whenever people start complaining about the lockin, skype promises to make a SIP gateway. Then when everyone has calmed down again, they conviniently forget about the gateway promise and go back to business as usual. - The protocol isn't open and documented unlike the standards that predate skype by many years. As I said above, it is obvious the protocol is garbage. Convinient for skype though that they were able to build a business on the bandwidth and cpu power of their users. I don't think they ever made that clear to their users though when they gave away the software. I believe Microsoft has reduced that though by choosing to run dedicated super nodes themselves rather than rely on random users who happen to have a good connection to do that job. > I'm not sure of the current Skype architecture. I have the impression > that Microsoft has moved a lot of stuff from leached user machines to > their own servers. Yes the supernodes are now dedicated. > Skype is something that one gets dragged into. If you need to talk to > someone who only has Skype, for example. It is reputed to be really > good at getting through NAT and firewalls without the requirement for > a skilled operator. And it is kind of free as in beer. Sure. And when we blocked all peer to peer traffic at work the sales people screamed bloody murder when suddenly skype stopped working. We had no idea skype was such a piece of shit at the time. When we tried to look up from skype what ports to allow to keep skype working, we couldn't find that info, because it doesn't exist. Skype will use anything at all to sneak its way through a network. Hence why I said skype is a nightmare for a network admin. > The SIP infrastructure is a bit weak. It isn't conventional to have > end-to-end encryption and I don't know of universally accepted > protocols for negotiating encrypted links. Furthermore, dealing with > NAT has gotten middlemen involved in each call. Sure, but it works with lots of software and lots of providers, and you can run it on top of anything you want (ipsc, openvpn, etc). At least with SIP we know what we are getting. With skype you just have their word that your stuff is secure. With SIP by default at least I know it is NOT secure. > Quality of Service with SIP hasn't been that great in my experience. > Skype is reputed to be better. Depends on the software/codec/connection/etc. It can be quite good too. > Finally, one strength of SIP has been that ITSPs can offer you "DID"s > (plain old phone numbers). But that forces middlemen on you for > those calls. And skype does that too for a fee. No difference there, except with SIP you can choose any of a bunch of competing providers. With skype you can only choose skype. > I don't want my communications to be "owned" by a company, especially > one that is a sole provider. Especially one that makes its living > selling user profiles to advertisers. Google chat happens to sometimes be convinient for showing the grand parents the grand kid. I don't use it for anything else. > Even if all your "content" is end-to-end encrypted, traffic analysis > is a powerful surveillance tool. This is the equivalent to "pen > register" for phone surveillance I don't do anything on google I wouldn't want publicly known. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 20:15:50 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 16:15:50 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20130412201550.GG21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 04:07:19PM -0400, Alejandro Imass wrote: > I think GSM has two distinct frequency options but are all compatible > at some level. For example a current iPhone will work on Wind but will > get only "Edge" speeds because it's missing the 1700 band. Why Apple > didn't make the iPhone a multi-band device and use HSDPA networks. > Maybe that was part of their deal with AT&T. It is multiband. But are you going to support 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or what bands? Each band makes the radio and antenna more complex and more expensive. Wind happens to have a band that isn't very common in the world. That means your choice in phones is reduced unfortunately. > Neither am I, but I just want Wind to survive to any news on T-Mobile > is relevant to that end. I sure hope they survive too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 20:21:21 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 16:21:21 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > In any case, because it was closed and undisclosed, nobody could be > sure of anything good. Which means one should assume the worst. > > (Encryption is technically easy but authentication is where all the > challenges are. Authentication is the weakest link. Without > authentication, encryption is useless against man-in-the-middle > attacks. I don't know a darned thing about Skype authentication.) If you're really concerned, use a VPN. > The SIP infrastructure is a bit weak. It isn't conventional to have > end-to-end encryption and I don't know of universally accepted > protocols for negotiating encrypted links. Furthermore, dealing with > NAT has gotten middlemen involved in each call. > > Quality of Service with SIP hasn't been that great in my experience. > Skype is reputed to be better. The quality of SIP, as with Skype and other real time voice/video services depends on the quality of your connection. The public Internet is generally good enough, but to provide consistent good quality, you need QoS. I have VoIP from Rogers for my home phone and it's actually better quality than I used to get from Bell. But then, Rogers controls their network and can provide appropriate QoS. MPLS is one means of providing QoS over a public network. > > Finally, one strength of SIP has been that ITSPs can offer you "DID"s > (plain old phone numbers). But that forces middlemen on you for > those calls. Actually, with 100% VoIP calls, the provider is only used for setting up the call. Once that happens, they drop out and communications is direct end to end. Of course, the provider is still needed if you're calling a POTS phone. to convert from VoIP to the traditional phone network. > I don't want my communications to be "owned" by a company, especially > one that is a sole provider. Especially one that makes its living > selling user profiles to advertisers. > > Even if all your "content" is end-to-end encrypted, traffic analysis > is a powerful surveillance tool. This is the equivalent to "pen > register" for phone surveillance How is that any different from the traditional phone network? If anything VoIP calls are harder for them to deal with. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 20:29:48 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 16:29:48 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <51686EBC.6070700@rogers.com> Alejandro Imass wrote: > I think GSM has two distinct frequency options but are all compatible > at some level. For example a current iPhone will work on Wind but will > get only "Edge" speeds because it's missing the 1700 band. Why Apple > didn't make the iPhone a multi-band device and use HSDPA networks. > Maybe that was part of their deal with AT&T. Edge is part of GSM. Wind doesn't offer any GSM service, so if you don't have an AWS phone for Wind, you won't get anything. However, if your AWS phone supports GSM, you will have GSM/Edge service on Rogers. > >> >Note: I'm not a cell phone expert. I may be all wrong. > Neither am I, but I just want Wind to survive to any news on T-Mobile > is relevant to that end. I have done cell site work for both Rogers and Wind. Also, it'd be nice if Wind and Mobilicity would team up, along with Videotron, Eastlink and any other AWS carrier to provide better service coverage for all of them. I can see Public Mobile going with Telus, as they already roam with them. Regardless, I don't want to see any of them taken over by Rogers/Telus/Bell, as that would remove sorely needed competition from Canada. If they can't make it on their own, the government should allow them to go with a foreign carrier. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 20:33:34 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 16:33:34 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <51686CC1.1080805-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> Message-ID: <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: >> >> (Encryption is technically easy but authentication is where all the >> challenges are. Authentication is the weakest link. Without >> authentication, encryption is useless against man-in-the-middle >> attacks. I don't know a darned thing about Skype authentication.) > > If you're really concerned, use a VPN. Forgot to mention, SIP support IPSec, for encrypted calls. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 12 21:17:14 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:17:14 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <516879DA.7030202@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Note: I'm not a cell phone expert. I may be all wrong. There's a lot of cell phone info here: http://www.arcx.com/sites/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 13 00:44:04 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:44:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <51686F9E.30107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | James Knott wrote: | > If you're really concerned, use a VPN. | | Forgot to mention, SIP support IPSec, for encrypted calls. SIP doesn't support IPSec, IPSec supports SIP and essentially all other IP protocols. But you need opportunistic encryption so that you don't have to pre-arrange all your connections. Here's an RFC we wrote about it: It turns out that OE was a hard thing to sell. We couldn't even give it away. Heck, when I bought a Linksys router with our code in it, they had disabled those features (and held out on the source code, contrary to the GPL). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 13 01:18:48 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 21:18:48 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Forgot to mention, SIP support IPSec, for encrypted calls. > > SIP doesn't support IPSec, IPSec supports SIP and essentially all > other IP protocols. While SIP can certainly travel over an IPSec VPN, and I have set that up, that's not what I was referring to. IPSec can also be used directly by applications, without a VPN. >From http://www.softwell.se/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82&Itemid=131 "A successful IMS AKA Registration is accomplished by two SIP Register request messages sent to the subscriber's S-CSCF and two SIP Register response messages to the requesting subscriber. Information neccesary to performa authentication and set up the two IPsec channels are provided in the SIP message headers. Some of the SIP message headers are specific for IMS." With this, the connection is set up to use IPSec, for carrying the connection. And this: http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/wvraix/v6r1m0/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.ibm.wvraix.voip.doc%2Fipsec.html Or from this book: http://www1.avaya.com/pc/SIP_for_Dummies.pdf Pg 45 "Secure Real-Time Transport Protocol (SRTP) or IP Security (IPSEC) using Advance Encryption Standard (AES) encryption to provide authentication, cofigentiality, and integrity for protection of the media And here's some info on SRTP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Real-time_Transport_Protocol SIP normally uses Real Time Protocol (RTP) to carry a call, but it can also use SRTP to provide end to end encryption of the call. That is right from one phone to the other, encrypted all the way. So, bottom line, IPSec *IS* supported by SIP. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 13 07:17:36 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 03:17:36 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy Nightmare/Need a new modem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51690690.8090508@sobac.com> Hi Thomas: If you should ever be in need of a Thomson modem again, try Acme Telephone (yes, that's a real company. But no coyotes, no roadrunners). http://acmetelephone.ca/ http://www.speedtouch.ca/typesearch.php I've bought a few modems from them. Generally, next day delivery (but then I'm only a few kilometers away). --Bob. On 13-04-11 08:23 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: > >> I asked Teksavvy to hook me up to their 15MB service almost three weeks >> ago. >> >> They said that in order to complete this, they would need to send out a >> tech to install a splitter between 12 and 9 pm, April 2. April 2 came, I >> waited, no show. Called the next day, they apologized but said we would >> need to wait another 3 days and still hang at home for nine hours. Okay, we >> wait. Second time, no show. >> >> Now they are saying we need to wait til Tuesday, and again hang out from >> 12 to 9 pm. That ain't gonna happen. >> >> Anyone know something about Teksavvy that can explain why they are being >> so negligent? It's like they've abandoned all effort at actually doing >> anything, and are now focusing on just obtaining more market share. >> >> Also, since my wife works at Bell, we are thinking of getting their >> internet service since we can probably get a break on the price. Any >> thoughts? I know there a lot of emotional and political reasons to avoid >> Bell, but what are the likely technical pitfalls? >> >> Anyway, just feel totally lost at this point. I can't believe Teksavvy has >> declined so precipitously in terms of their customer care. >> >> -- >> Thomas Milne >> > > Well guess what? It turns out I do not need a splitter at all. Well, maybe > I did, but what I really needed was a NEW MODEM. > > GAAAAAGGGAAARRRRGGGHJHH! > > Okay, now that I've got that out of my system, can anyone tell me where to > get a Speedtouch 516 modem? Canada Computers says they are out of stock. > Someone recommended Tiger Direct but I do not see it on their site. I would > like a Speedtouch so that Teksavvy will support it, I know that supposedly > any ADSL2+ modem should work. > > The saga continues. I guess I've decided to treat Teksavvy the way I would > my children, and so I will try to be patient and understanding of their > youthful carelessness. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 13 20:22:32 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 16:22:32 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <51684E16.2020201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130409144450.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51642B38.6090001@rogers.com> <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51683C50.5020 708@rogers.com> <51684E16.2020201@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5169BE88.6080600@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > I have never had that problem with my smart phone on Rogers. I have > used many different protocols besides http, including https, ssh, > imaps, smtps, sftp and even 6in4 tunnel, which is IP protocol 41. Correction, when behind NAT, the 6in4 tunnel uses UDP port 3653 and not IP protocol 41. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 13 21:36:19 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 17:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <5168B278.3080501-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Forgot to mention, SIP support IPSec, for encrypted calls. | > | > SIP doesn't support IPSec, IPSec supports SIP and essentially all | > other IP protocols. | | While SIP can certainly travel over an IPSec VPN, and I have set that up, | that's not what I was referring to. IPSec can also be used directly by | applications, without a VPN. Is that a standard? Is it generally implemented by a reasonable number of suppliers? | >From | http://www.softwell.se/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82&Itemid=131 | | "A successful IMS AKA Registration is accomplished by two SIP Register request | messages sent to the subscriber's S-CSCF and two SIP Register response | messages to the requesting subscriber. Information neccesary to performa | authentication and set up the two IPsec channels are provided in the SIP | message headers. Some of the SIP message headers are specific for IMS." | | With this, the connection is set up to use IPSec, for carrying the connection. I don't know what that is. Shotwell seems to be a testing company. IMS seems to be "IP Multimedia Subsystem" of "IP Multimedia Core Network Subsystem"(?). It seems t be 3GPP, whatever that is. AKA is for mobile telephony. It sounds like it corresponds to IPSec's IKE, but is different. Not part of IPsec. Reading between the lines, they may be using ESP protocol. Does any of this exist? From ITSPs? From ATA devices or SIP phones? | And this: | http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/wvraix/v6r1m0/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.ibm.wvraix.voip.doc%2Fipsec.html That is pretty vague, but nothing in that suggests that it is anything but SIP over an (otherwise negotiated) VPN. | Or from this book: | http://www1.avaya.com/pc/SIP_for_Dummies.pdf | | Pg 45 | "Secure Real-Time Transport Protocol (SRTP) or IP Security (IPSEC) using | Advance Encryption Standard (AES) encryption to provide authentication, | cofigentiality, and integrity for protection of the media That document seems to wave its hand in the IPSec direction but does not imply anything but VPN. | SIP normally uses Real Time Protocol (RTP) to carry a call, but it can also | use SRTP to provide end to end encryption of the call. That is right from one | phone to the other, encrypted all the way. Last I looked, there was no universal (i.e. interoperable) way of negotiating security with strangers. SRTP does not protect the SIP part of the call either. For this stuff to work in general, Opportunistic Encryption is the only way to get there in a standards-based environment. | So, bottom line, IPSec *IS* supported by SIP. I still don't see this. BTW, I'm not demanding IPSec. SRTP could be good enough (I haven't checked). But: 1) as much of the communication as possible must be private and secure. Including the SIP part. 2) the security must be solid (so much of what passes for security is known to be weak). Usually this is best accomplished by security folks designing the protocol, not adding it later or by amateurs. 3) traffic analysis is a hard threat to defeat. A standard should accommodate countermeasures. Since they are expensive, it probably cannot require them. IPSec allows tunnels to be less correlated with call sessions so enables some approaches for limiting traffic analysis. 4) The authentication infrastructure is a really tough nut to crack and should not be designed just by techies. It's got to be user-visible and must be tractable for ordinary users. On the web, we've punted that and allowed "servers" but not "clients" to be authenticated automatically (TLS). I don't want a server/client distinction in general, and certainly not in telephony. 5) Opportunistic Encryption needs to be considered from the outset. It is quite hard and made much harder if it must be retrofitted. It has to include authentication if one wants to be secure from man-in-the-middle attacks. 6) I want all this to be end-to-end: no designed-in middleman. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 13 22:57:36 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 18:57:36 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5169E2E0.6050904@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > While SIP can certainly travel over an IPSec VPN, and I have set that up, > | that's not what I was referring to. IPSec can also be used directly by > | applications, without a VPN. > > Is that a standard? Is it generally implemented by a reasonable > number of suppliers? SIP can use various encryption methods, including IPSec, TLS and others. I mentioned IPSec because it is a standard part of IPv6 and moving to IPv6 will provide benefits to VoIP, such as Mobile IPv6, mandatory CoS, along with lower latency provided by routing improvements. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 14 02:20:16 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 22:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <5169E2E0.6050904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.6050904@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > While SIP can certainly travel over an IPSec VPN, and I have set that up, | > | that's not what I was referring to. IPSec can also be used directly by | > | applications, without a VPN. | > | > Is that a standard? Is it generally implemented by a reasonable | > number of suppliers? | | SIP can use various encryption methods, including IPSec, TLS and others. One automatically thinks choice is good. But for interoperation, it just isn't. We want everyone to have a common encryption/authentication/privacy/security/... so that they can interoperate. In IPSec, a lot of the interoperation rigmarole that makes it hard to set up is (a) the options, and (b) the awkward ways to configure most implementations, and (c) the awkward way that IKE negotiates. IKEv2 was meant to address this but I don't know if it succeeds, and it isn't generally used. Combinatorial complexity of a program makes it very hard to test all cases. This is VERY bad from a security standpoint. Options create such combinatorial complexity. | I | mentioned IPSec because it is a standard part of IPv6 and moving to IPv6 will | provide benefits to VoIP, such as Mobile IPv6, mandatory CoS, along with lower | latency provided by routing improvements. That doesn't seem like what you said. I don't remember you mentioning IPv6 in messages I've responded to. IPSec is part of most IPv4 stacks already (Linux, Windows, OS X, *BSD, and iOS already have IPSec under IPv4; I think Android does too). The rest of the improvements seem to be minor improvements as far as VoIP is concerned. Unless CoS works surprisingly well. Oh, and if NAT goes away, that would be really good for peer-to-peer phone calls (that should be the norm). The IMS AKA just might be interesting (I cannot tell from the writeup), but only if it is widely deployed). Other than that, IPSec can support SIP, not the other way around. We (the FreeS/WAN project) talked about creating a userland API so that an application could request or require that a socket be carried over IPSec. We never got there and I don't know of any other implementation that has done that. Allowing applications to require secure channels does seem like a useful facility. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 14 03:09:44 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 23:09:44 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.6050904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <516A1DF8.606@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: James Knott > > > | SIP can use various encryption methods, including IPSec, TLS and others. > > One automatically thinks choice is good. But for interoperation, it > just isn't. We want everyone to have a common > encryption/authentication/privacy/security/... so that they can > interoperate. Actually, there's a bit of history, where choice is available. For example, with VoIP, you often have a choice of codecs and the app chooses the best common one, though it's also possible to select, such as G.729a for low bandwidth, G.711 for toll quality or even one that can provide broadcast quality. There are other situations where multiple methods are available. > > In IPSec, a lot of the interoperation rigmarole that makes it hard to > set up is > (a) the options, and > (b) the awkward ways to configure most implementations, and > (c) the awkward way that IKE negotiates. > > IKEv2 was meant to address this but I don't know if it succeeds, and > it isn't generally used. > > Combinatorial complexity of a program makes it very hard to test all > cases. This is VERY bad from a security standpoint. Options create > such combinatorial complexity. IPSec has been in use for a while and seen a lot of testing. There are different ways to configure it. For example, I have used shared secret passwords with several VPNs, You can also use public/private keys, in the same manner as ssh, certificates, as is used with several services or a key server. IPSec supports them all and you choose which ever is best for the application. > > | I > | mentioned IPSec because it is a standard part of IPv6 and moving to IPv6 will > | provide benefits to VoIP, such as Mobile IPv6, mandatory CoS, along with lower > | latency provided by routing improvements. > That doesn't seem like what you said. I don't remember you mentioning > IPv6 in messages I've responded to. IPSec is part of most IPv4 stacks > already (Linux, Windows, OS X, *BSD, and iOS already have IPSec under > IPv4; I think Android does too). I didn't mention IPv6 specifically in that message, but I have on many other occasions, both here and elsewhere. I have been running IPv6 myself for almost 3 years and my home network is fully functional with it (I have a /56 subnet, which is 2^72 addresses or about a trillion times the entire IPv4 address space). Regardless, IPSec is available on both IPv6 and IPv4 and is becoming the standard for many uses beyond VPNs. Also, IPSec was originally developed for IPv6 and then adapted to IPv4. My Android phone and tablet both support IPSec, PPTP and L2TP. They also can use IPv6 when connected to my home network and my phone will also be able to when Rogers gets around to offering IPv6 on their cell network. Unlike with IPv4, CoS is mandatory with IPv6. This means that when you use it with VoIP, your call will be given priority over other traffic on the Internet. > The rest of the improvements seem to be minor improvements as far as > VoIP is concerned. Unless CoS works surprisingly well. Oh, and if NAT > goes away, that would be really good for peer-to-peer phone calls > (that should be the norm). The routing improvements (hierarchical routing, fixed length header etc.) reduce latency for all traffic, not just VoIP, but reducing latency is one of the goals when you're using it. > Other than that, IPSec can support SIP, not the other way around. We > (the FreeS/WAN project) talked about creating a userland API so that > an application could request or require that a socket be carried over > IPSec. We never got there and I don't know of any other implementation > that has done that. Allowing applications to require secure channels > does seem like a useful facility. Compare VoIP using IPSec to the way browsers, email (or even VoIP) etc. use ssl. It just provides encryption and authentication on a per application basis, rather than an encrypted tunnel, when used in a VPN, which leaves the contents unencrypted outside of the VPN. I have never used FreeS/WAN, but I'm in the process of setting up a StrongSWAN VPN between my notebook and home network, to see how well it supports IPv6. Then I'll include my tablet, which already has the StrongSWAN software installed. If that works with IPv6, then I'll be able to access the computers on my home network from my tablet, regardless of whether IPv6 is otherwise available. I also have the 6in4 tunnel software installed on my notebook, so I can use IPv6 to access my home computers when elsewhere (other than the Mississauga library & community centre WiFi, where everything other than http port 80 is blocked). As for those implementations you mentioned not supporting applications, that may be because they're designed to be used as a VPN and not for directly supporting apps. Are the required pieces available to be called by an app? Perhaps we'll have to see what Cisco and others do with this. Cisco routers certainly support IPSec, but I haven't worked at that level with their phones. Many of the soft phone apps support some form of encryption. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 14 04:23:44 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 00:23:44 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <516A1DF8.606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.6050904@rogers.com> <516A1DF8.606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <516A2F50.6030802@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > As for those implementations you mentioned not supporting > applications, that may be because they're designed to be used as a VPN > and not for directly supporting apps. Are the required pieces > available to be called by an app? Perhaps we'll have to see what Cisco > and others do with this. Cisco routers certainly support IPSec, but I > haven't worked at that level with their phones. Many of the soft > phone apps support some form of encryption. Further on this. A router would generally use IPSec only for VPNs and a VoIP would only use it for encrypting calls. The devices use it for one or the other. On the other hand a computer or tablet might use it for both. Is there a library that can be called for either use? On my computer, I see the StrongSWAN package includes strongswan-libs0, which provides the strongswan library and plugins. Might there be something in there that could be called by a VoIP app for encrypting a call? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 14 04:42:14 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 00:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <516A1DF8.606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.6050904@rogers.com> <516A1DF8.606@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > One automatically thinks choice is good. But for interoperation, it | > just isn't. We want everyone to have a common | > encryption/authentication/privacy/security/... so that they can | > interoperate. | > In IPSec, a lot of the interoperation rigmarole that makes it hard to | > set up is | > (a) the options, and | > (b) the awkward ways to configure most implementations, and | > (c) the awkward way that IKE negotiates. | > | > IKEv2 was meant to address this but I don't know if it succeeds, and | > it isn't generally used. | > | > Combinatorial complexity of a program makes it very hard to test all | > cases. This is VERY bad from a security standpoint. Options create | > such combinatorial complexity. | | IPSec has been in use for a while and seen a lot of testing. There are | different ways to configure it. Yeah. Been there and got the teeshirt (literally: I've been to several "VPN Bakeoffs" back in the day, and we always got teeshirts). Testing can never show the absence of bugs. Interoperating during testing involved too much shouting back and forth about settings. User interfaces bore too much similarity to DIP switches. Example: The order of most IKE payloads is unspecified. For a long time, we only accepted them in one order (that in which they were described in the RFC). Never once did that cause a problem. I would guess that many implementations would fail if they received payloads in another order. This is an example where the spec gave an option that was worse than useless (at least it wasn't visible to the user). I would bet fuzzers would find bugs in most implementations (they did in ours). | For example, I have used shared secret | passwords with several VPNs, You can also use public/private keys, in the | same manner as ssh, certificates, as is used with several services or a key | server. IPSec supports them all and you choose which ever is best for the | application. I think that I'm the only one that implemented IKE authentication with bare public keys (i.e. not embedded in X.509 certificates). Too bad. I once bought a Linksys wireless router because the manual said that it had this feature. But the GUI didn't implement a way to use it (even though it was documented) so it didn't work. This was GPLed code and they wouldn't respond to my requests for the source (either as a customer or the copyright holder). Grrr. (The router was quite buggy; if they'd been more open, the community would likely have fixed the problems.) In any case, I think some options are worthwhile, some not. Lots of people want pre-shared keys but bare public keys are just about as easy, way more powerful, and easier to handle safely. Example: it is safe to distribute your public key in public -- try that with your pre-shared key. So perhaps pre-shared keys should not be an option. We fought for a long time to get DES eliminated (it had been mandatory to support it in IPSec). Our sponsor even built the DES-cracking hardware to make the point that DES was too weak (up to then denied by NSA, even to the US Congress). (strongSwan, Openswan, Libreswan are all continuations of the (dead) FreeS/WAN project. I think that Openswan is unlikely to move forward since the main contributors have started Libreswan. I help the Libreswan project a bit.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 14 05:02:28 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 01:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <516A2F50.6030802-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.6050904@rogers.com> <516A1DF8.606@rogers.com> <516A2F50.6030802@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | Further on this. A router would generally use IPSec only for VPNs and a VoIP | would only use it for encrypting calls. IPSec can be deployed on gateways, making the LAN behind them available, or it can be run on the host itself. An application is unlikely to be able to conveniently make requests of a gateway. The API I mentioned would only be for talking to IPSec on the host itself. VPN is what IPSec was designed for, in many peoples' minds. It wasn't what we were aiming for. We wanted each flow that could be protected to be protected, opportunistically. I repeat, that's not a VPN but it does fit into IPSec (we took part in the IETF process to make sure). And it is perfect for VoIP. | Is | there a library that can be called for either use? On my computer, I see the | StrongSWAN package includes strongswan-libs0, which provides the strongswan | library and plugins. I don't know much about strongSwan. I don't even know as much as I'd like to about Libreswan. Libreswan seems to interoperate with iPhones (I've seen it). But I don't think that that is Opportunistic since iOS uses Raccoon and that doesn't do OE. The tunnels are built on demand, but I think that they have to be prearranged. Getting Libreswan to interoperate with iOS required supporting another few "options": ESP over UDP (to deal with NAT, I think), and IKE fragmentation (not standardized; partially documented in a file found on a Microsoft server; needed to work around broken firewalls that discard (legally) fragmented UDP). And some other things I don't understand. What a mess. | Might there be something in there that could be called | by a VoIP app for encrypting a call? I don't know. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 14 06:55:59 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 02:55:59 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <20130409174647.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51645507.6050103@rogers.com> <20130409180928.GR21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130409184009.GS21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> Message-ID: <516A52FF.2070202@sobac.com> Hugh complained: > Many are coerced into having a GMail account. You cannot get Android > apps without one, for example. There are other, non-Google repositories for Android apps: http://f-droid.org/ contains only F/LOSS apps. http://m.aptoide.com/ is a federated series of repositories that seem to have most everything available from Google and a whole lot more besides. http://www.amazon.com/mobile-apps/b/ref=topnav_storetab_mas?ie=UTF8&node=2350149011 is "Amazon Apps for Android" when accessed from my laptop (I think the URL is different when I access it from my Android). I haven't used this one. When I flashed new firmware on my Android phone I did not install the optional "Google Pack" which included the App Store app. I have not needed a Google account since then, because I get most everything from F-Droid. However, there are some apps (like the Giles Malet's GRT Transit App) that depend on some library provided only by the Google Pack. Most of those have an older version, or a re-compilation for F-Droid so they're still usable (eg. Transdroid). I do miss the GRT app, tho... --Bob. Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting On 13-04-12 01:00 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: James Knott > > | Lennart Sorensen wrote: | > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:21:31AM > -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > | > > open may be required for trust -- think how much we trust > Skype). | > I trust skype not at all and won't allow it near any of > my devices. | > Also the stupid peer to peer protocol it uses is a > network admin's | > nightmare. That alone is enough to want to ban > it. | > | | I prefer Google Talk, but I have Skype because a friend > of mine uses it. > > Google Talk certainly isn't a route to more security. What were you > thinking? > > | She | must be one of the very few people in this world without a > GMail account. > > Many are coerced into having a GMail account. You cannot get > Android apps without one, for example. -- The Toronto Linux Users > Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, > No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 14 14:12:41 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 10:12:41 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.605 0904@rogers.com> <516A1DF8.606@rogers.com> <516A2F50.6030802@rogers.com> Message-ID: <516AB959.9080106@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I don't know much about strongSwan. > > I don't even know as much as I'd like to about Libreswan. > > Libreswan seems to interoperate with iPhones (I've seen it). But I > don't think that that is Opportunistic since iOS uses Raccoon and that > doesn't do OE. The tunnels are built on demand, but I think that they > have to be prearranged. Though I'm no expert, my impression is the Linux world is moving to StrongSWAN for IPSec. There were a couple of previous attempts, one being FreeS/WAN. I have also used OpenVPN for years and one other (name escapes me) prior to that. > > Getting Libreswan to interoperate with iOS required supporting another > few "options": ESP over UDP (to deal with NAT, I think), and IKE > fragmentation (not standardized; partially documented in a file found > on a Microsoft server; needed to work around broken firewalls that > discard (legally) fragmented UDP). And some other things I don't > understand. What a mess. IPSec supports ESP through NAT, though AH chokes on it. Of course once the move to IPv6 is complete, we can forget about NAT and the problems it creates. At that time, any IPv4 only stuff can be treated as the exception, rather than the rule. > > | Might there be something in there that could be called > | by a VoIP app for encrypting a call? > > I don't know. While it's certainly possible that every app that uses IPSec could "roll it's own" support, it's certainly better to have a shared library. So, perhaps a VoIP app that offers IPSec could use that library I mentioned. Or perhaps someone will come up with a shared library that everything, including VPNs call on for IPSec support. We'll have to see. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 14 14:28:44 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 10:28:44 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.605 0904@rogers.com> <516A1DF8.606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <516ABD1C.7070601@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Testing can never show the absence of bugs. That applies to everything. > The order of most IKE payloads is unspecified. For a long time, we > only accepted them in one order (that in which they were described in > the RFC). Never once did that cause a problem. I would guess that > many implementations would fail if they received payloads in another > order. This is an example where the spec gave an option that was > worse than useless (at least it wasn't visible to the user). That, of course, is an implementation issue, not an inherent problem with IPSec. > I think that I'm the only one that implemented IKE authentication with > bare public keys (i.e. not embedded in X.509 certificates). StrongSWAN supports self generated certificates in the same manner as ssh. > Lots of people want pre-shared keys but bare public keys are just > about as easy, way more powerful, and easier to handle safely. Pre-shared secret keys are easier, as you don't have to generate a public/private key pair, but creating the secret password can stand some improvement. Like other passwords, people often choose a simple on that may have some connection to them. When I created the secret passwords, I would generally use ps aux|md5sum to get a string of "random" characters. > We fought for a long time to get DES eliminated (it had been mandatory > to support it in IPSec). Our sponsor even built the DES-cracking > hardware to make the point that DES was too weak (up to then denied by > NSA, even to the US Congress). Yep, I recall reading about how easy it had become to break. I also recall reading a book on encryption where they covered several methods, including 3DES. What I found interesting was the way they'd take the 168 bit key, split it into 3 56 bit keys then use the parts, in turn to encrypt, then decrypt and encrypt again. This was done to maintain compatibility with 56 bit DES systems with the same 56 bits used in all three steps. This would result in the decrypt stage canceling out one of the encrypt stages and providing the same effect as a single encrypt stage. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 14 15:42:42 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 11:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <516ABD1C.7070601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <516459C1.6060605@rogers.com> <20130411152633.GX21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20130412145004.GZ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51682808.2080801@rogers.com> <20130412181053.GE21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <51686CC1.1080805@rogers.com> <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.6050904@rogers.com> <516A1DF8.606@rogers.com> <516ABD1C.7070601@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | That, of course, is an implementation issue, not an inherent problem with | IPSec. My point was that IPSec has needless options, each one adding to the room for bugs, and leading to dark untested corners. That is inherent. | > I think that I'm the only one that implemented IKE authentication with | > bare public keys (i.e. not embedded in X.509 certificates). | | StrongSWAN supports self generated certificates in the same manner as ssh. And probably bare public keys since it is based on my code. | > Lots of people want pre-shared keys but bare public keys are just | > about as easy, way more powerful, and easier to handle safely. | | Pre-shared secret keys are easier, as you don't have to generate a | public/private key pair, but creating the secret password can stand some | improvement. Like other passwords, people often choose a simple on that may | have some connection to them. When I created the secret passwords, I would | generally use ps aux|md5sum to get a string of "random" characters. Doing PSK safely requires as much fiddling with tools as generating a public key. Your example shows this. Adding certificates to the mix adds complexity. Among other things, certs are fatter and are less likely to fit in an IKE message (remember, large messages get fragmented and many firewalls discard UDP fragments). I'm not saying that certs don't have their benefits. But one needs to think about what they are in a particular application. A number of security bugs in IPSec implementations have been due the the cert handling code. | I also recall | reading a book on encryption where they covered several methods, including | 3DES. 3DES was a good solution to an unfortunate problem. Only DES hardware was available and DES was thought to be good at resisting all but brute-force attacks. 3DES exploited the hardware and made brute force much less feasible. AES eventually (many years later) has a bunch of advantages. The paranoid among us don't know if DES or AES have backdoors. For example, the NSA got IBM (the designers) to change DES in ways that have not been explained satisfactorily. BTW, the US Congress actually forced banks to only use 1DES. Was that for security or insecurity (allowing the NSA in)? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 15 15:47:04 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:47:04 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <516AB959.9080106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.6050904@rogers.com> <516A1DF8.606@rogers.com> <516A2F50.6030802@rogers.com> <516AB959.9080106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130415154704.GH21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 10:12:41AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Though I'm no expert, my impression is the Linux world is moving to > StrongSWAN for IPSec. There were a couple of previous attempts, one > being FreeS/WAN. I have also used OpenVPN for years and one other > (name escapes me) prior to that. No I don't think so. Redhat even employs one of the libreswan developers. Strongswan has very few developers, and they don't actually seem to take security that seriously unfortunately. OpenSwan has had issues because of legal issues with the developers and the company that thinks it owns openswan. Hence libreswan, which is now back to being quite active in development. Freeswan forked into strongswan and openswan (both are based on freeswan). openswan has no forked into libreswan as well (taking all the developers with it by the looks of it). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 15 15:57:38 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:57:38 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <20130415154704.GH21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.6050904@rogers.com> <516A1DF8.606@rogers.com> <516A2F50.6030802@rogers.com> <516AB959.9080106@rogers.com> <20130415154704.GH21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <516C2372.5040502@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 10:12:41AM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> >Though I'm no expert, my impression is the Linux world is moving to >> >StrongSWAN for IPSec. There were a couple of previous attempts, one >> >being FreeS/WAN. I have also used OpenVPN for years and one other >> >(name escapes me) prior to that. > No I don't think so. Redhat even employs one of the libreswan developers. > > Strongswan has very few developers, and they don't actually seem to take > security that seriously unfortunately. > > OpenSwan has had issues because of legal issues with the developers and > the company that thinks it owns openswan. Hence libreswan, which is > now back to being quite active in development. > > Freeswan forked into strongswan and openswan (both are based on freeswan). > openswan has no forked into libreswan as well (taking all the developers > with it by the looks of it). Lots of fun. StrongSWAN is the IPSec package that's currently available with OpenSUSE. One might make the case there too many projects happening. It'd be nice if those people would work together and get one good package going. As I mentioned, I have used OpenVPN for years and it worked well, but until very recently, it didn't properly support IPv6 and also there's no Android version available that I'm aware of. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 15 17:02:50 2013 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 13:02:50 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <516C2372.5040502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.6050904@rogers.com> <516A1DF8.606@rogers.com> <516A2F50.6030802@rogers.com> <516AB959.9080106@rogers.com> <20130415154704.GH21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516C2372.5040502@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 15 April 2013 11:57, James Knott wrote: > As I mentioned, I have used OpenVPN for years and it worked well, but until > very recently, it didn't properly support IPv6 and also there's no Android > version available that I'm aware of. OpenVPN Android clients: Among others. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 15 17:22:39 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 13:22:39 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: References: <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.6050904@rogers.com> <516A1DF8.606@rogers.com> <516A2F50.6030802@rogers.com> <516AB959.9080106@rogers.com> <20130415154704.GH21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516C2372.5040502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <516C375F.5060502@rogers.com> Scott Allen wrote: > On 15 April 2013 11:57, James Knott wrote: >> As I mentioned, I have used OpenVPN for years and it worked well, but until >> very recently, it didn't properly support IPv6 and also there's no Android >> version available that I'm aware of. > OpenVPN Android clients: > > > Among others. > > Those must be fairly recent then, as I search on OpenVPN a while ago and nothing turned up. I wonder if they support IPv6? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 15 17:27:23 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 13:27:23 -0400 Subject: Microsoft files EU Android complaint In-Reply-To: <516C375F.5060502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <51686F9E.30107@rogers.com> <5168B278.3080501@rogers.com> <5169E2E0.6050904@rogers.com> <516A1DF8.606@rogers.com> <516A2F50.6030802@rogers.com> <516AB959.9080106@rogers.com> <20130415154704.GH21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <516C2372.5040502@rogers.com> <516C375F.5060502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <516C387B.6060405@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Scott Allen wrote: >> On 15 April 2013 11:57, James Knott wrote: >>> As I mentioned, I have used OpenVPN for years and it worked well, >>> but until >>> very recently, it didn't properly support IPv6 and also there's no >>> Android >>> version available that I'm aware of. >> OpenVPN Android clients: >> >> >> >> Among others. >> >> > Those must be fairly recent then, as I search on OpenVPN a while ago > and nothing turned up. I wonder if they support IPv6? Hmmm... I just checked again and I get: "We couldn't find anything for your search - openvpn. Suggestions: Make sure all words are spelled correctly. Try different keywords. Try more general keywords." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 15 17:39:46 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 13:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wayland driver that utilizes Android video drivers Message-ID: Too few little devices have X drivers. Most have Android drivers. This guy is working on supporting Wayland on top of an Android kernel. I infer that he's trying to ditch Andorid userland. For example, he's using glibc, not Bionic libc. He's a Jolla/Mer developer. He did some of this stuff last summer but felt burned by Ubuntu waving the stuff around but implying it was their creation. This seems promising. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 15:25:52 2013 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 11:25:52 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter Message-ID: Seeking a linux-compatible monitor calibration device. Let me know if you have one I could borrow, or trade for interesting Linux-tech-stuff. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 16:11:38 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 12:11:38 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <516D783A.5090906@utoronto.ca> I went through this pain. I ended up booting windows on a temporary hard drive, using the colorimeter & software, and then using the generated ICC profile with xcalib in Linux. That was cheaper/easier than finding a Linux compatible one (at the time). Sigh. Jamon On 16/04/13 11:25 AM, Richard Weait wrote: > Seeking a linux-compatible monitor calibration device. Let me know if you > have one I could borrow, or trade for interesting Linux-tech-stuff. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 16:45:05 2013 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 12:45:05 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter In-Reply-To: <516D783A.5090906-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <516D783A.5090906@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Hi, It's actually not that painful anymore, especially if you use gnome-color-manager/colord. But ArgyllCMS w/ dispcalgui is also quite powerful (if a little less intuitive). I'm sorry I don't have a spare (I'm not in TO proper anyway), I lent my i1d2 out ages ago and have yet to get it back. But it works fine with the above, as does the spyder3. Actually they all claim that Datacolor is linux-hostile, but it works, provided you also install ArgyllCMS (gcm uses the Argyll drivers to support devices it doesn't support natively - like the colorHug). I can also attest that the Huey works fine. I have yet to try either colorMunki, but reports are good for those devices as well (actually, one of them is a rebranded i1d2). Good luck. On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I went through this pain. I ended up booting windows on a temporary hard > drive, using the colorimeter & software, and then using the generated > ICC profile with xcalib in Linux. That was cheaper/easier than finding a > Linux compatible one (at the time). > > Sigh. > > Jamon > > On 16/04/13 11:25 AM, Richard Weait wrote: > > Seeking a linux-compatible monitor calibration device. Let me know if > you > > have one I could borrow, or trade for interesting Linux-tech-stuff. > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 17:06:47 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 13:06:47 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a Colo[u]rhug, which works well. Runs from standard tools on Linux. They're fairly cheap, or I can lend you mine once I have calibrated my new Samsung ... You'll be amazed at how blue most monitors are set by default ... Cheers Stewart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 17:20:28 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 13:20:28 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <516D885C.1080503@ss.org> On 04/16/2013 01:06 PM, Stewart Russell wrote: > I have a Colo[u]rhug, which works well. Runs from standard tools on > Linux. They're fairly cheap, or I can lend you mine once I have > calibrated my new Samsung ... > > You'll be amazed at how blue most monitors are set by default ... > > Cheers > Stewart > Thanks stewart, I knew the device but for the life of me couldn't remember the name of it. Spent 20mins trying to find the dang Fedora Article I first saw it in. Website here: http://hughski.com/ -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 17:42:00 2013 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 13:42:00 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Stewart Russell wrote: > I have a Colo[u]rhug, which works well. Runs from standard tools on Linux. > They're fairly cheap, or I can lend you mine once I have calibrated my new > Samsung ... > Thank you, Stewart. Much appreciated. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 17:59:04 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 13:59:04 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Note, though, that mine is a /very/ early beta hardware version, and the indicator LEDs are soldered the wrong way round. It has no way of holding it to a screen, and it doesn't have the best light isolation. All that said, though, it lifted a lot of the detail in my photos out of the murk. If you can borrow a calibrator, the results will pleasantly surprise you. Cheers Stewart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 18:12:27 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:12:27 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130416181227.GA24808@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:25:52AM -0400, Richard Weait wrote: > Seeking a linux-compatible monitor calibration device. Let me know if you > have one I could borrow, or trade for interesting Linux-tech-stuff. What is it, and why would anyone use it? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 18:18:30 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:18:30 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter In-Reply-To: <20130416181227.GA24808-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130416181227.GA24808@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <516D95F6.8070407@ss.org> On 04/16/2013 02:12 PM, William Park wrote: > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:25:52AM -0400, Richard Weait wrote: >> Seeking a linux-compatible monitor calibration device. Let me know if you >> have one I could borrow, or trade for interesting Linux-tech-stuff. > > What is it, and why would anyone use it? > The kind of tool being talked about is for comparing the output of a monitor for colours versus what it should be outputting for a given colour. This also for correction to be done in software. This is of value to anyone working in photography or design so that the can design color correct photos as close to "real" colour as possible. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 18:30:30 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:30:30 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter In-Reply-To: <516D783A.5090906-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <516D783A.5090906@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20130416183030.GI21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:11:38PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I went through this pain. I ended up booting windows on a temporary hard > drive, using the colorimeter & software, and then using the generated > ICC profile with xcalib in Linux. That was cheaper/easier than finding a > Linux compatible one (at the time). I wonder if the X-Rite Pantone color sensor in my W530 would work with linux. I have never tried. Or maybe I can grab the data it made in windows and move that to linux. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 18:42:50 2013 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:42:50 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter In-Reply-To: <516D885C.1080503-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <516D885C.1080503@ss.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > Website here: > http://hughski.com/ As the website notes, the ColorHug is open source hardware. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 19:54:13 2013 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:54:13 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter In-Reply-To: <516D95F6.8070407-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20130416181227.GA24808@node1.localdomain> <516D95F6.8070407@ss.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 04/16/2013 02:12 PM, William Park wrote: > >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:25:52AM -0400, Richard Weait wrote: >> >>> Seeking a linux-compatible monitor calibration device. Let me know if >>> you >>> have one I could borrow, or trade for interesting Linux-tech-stuff. >>> >> >> What is it, and why would anyone use it? >> >> > The kind of tool being talked about is for comparing the output of a > monitor for colours versus what it should be outputting for a given colour. > This also for correction to be done in software. This is of value to anyone > working in photography or design so that the can design color correct > photos as close to "real" colour as possible. Not to be pedantic, but it really has nothing to do with the "reality" of colours. Every device that deals in colour has different characteristics. For instance, EVERY SINGLE printer(ink) and paper combination is different than the last. Given the exact same colour data, no two combinations will look exactly alike. Here's where calibration and profiling comes in. This allows us to compensate for the unique characteristics of every input and output, since they are all in a "known state". This ensures that the colours you see in one output remain the same when they are translated for another device/output that is also part of the colour management workflow. Anything outside that chain (such as another person's display, or an unknown printer and paper combination) cannot be trusted. Anyone interested in getting a better idea of the science should track down a copy of Real World Color Management, it's a good (somewhat dry) read, at least the non-software-specific bits. Also, Pascal DeBruijn (http://www.pcode.nl/) from the Darktable team has written several interesting blog posts about linux and colour management/photo workflows. -aaron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 19:57:42 2013 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:57:42 -0400 Subject: wanted: monitor calibration tool / colorimeter In-Reply-To: References: <516D885C.1080503@ss.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Michael Hill wrote: > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > > > Website here: > > http://hughski.com/ > > As the website notes, the ColorHug is open source hardware. > It is, and it's creator (Richard Hughes) is the same person behind gnome-color-manager and colord. So you can be sure built-in support for that device is a given. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 21:34:57 2013 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (David Mason) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 17:34:57 -0400 Subject: Disk recommendations Message-ID: I'm going to move my boot and swap to a SSD and everything else from my RAID1 to a ZRAID2 ZFS array. The existing disks are 1TB and partly RAID, partly not. When I'm done, I'll have 3 or 4 TB fully RAID with 2 parity disks. The truly paranoid ZFS types like to have a diversity of disk manufacturers and drives. I know Lennart hates Seagate. But this page: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/Category/guidedSearch.asp?CatId=8&sel=Detail%3B17_35_20594_28669,Detail%3B17_791_47515_47515 has Toshiba, Samsung, and HP drives in addition to the WD-Reds that I'm supposed to get (although they have Intellipower, I presume it can be turned off). Does anyone have opinions about those other manufacturers? Based on Tiger Direct's list, it looks like WD pretty-much dominates the disk market these days. Thanks for any help. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 16 21:38:02 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 17:38:02 -0400 Subject: Honeypots... Message-ID: I got another one of those "Windows Technical Support" calls today (seems to happen about once every fortnight), telling me that my Windows PC had been sending them errors. I played along for as long as I had the stomach for it, wasting their time before telling the man at the other end that I was running Linux... At some point I would like to go the all the way with these @#$%. Any thoughts on setting up a virtual Windows PC honeypot under Linux in such a way that I can: - Easily track and capture exactly what these people are doing (ideally in real time). I want both screen video and the files they are manipulating. - Record the phone conversation in sync with what is happening on screen (I have an old device that will let me record phone calls on an analog tape recorder but I want the recording to be in sync with the screen video). I've used Oracle's Virtual Box in the past and that would be my first pick for virtualization software, but is there a better pick for a project like this? Further I have my OLD original copy of Windows 98, question is would this be adequate, or is there another versions of Windows that I should be after when dealing with these @#$%? In case anyone is wondering why I am considering this effort, well there are multiple reasons. I have an intellectual curiosity as to EXACTLY what these people are up to. If these people are trying to scam me they can't be scamming the stupid (thus in turn hurting their profits, and if they start loosing money they will stop :-) ). Thanks. Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 17 07:26:58 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 03:26:58 -0400 Subject: Disk recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130417072658.GA13896@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 05:34:57PM -0400, David Mason wrote: > I'm going to move my boot and swap to a SSD and everything else from > my RAID1 to a ZRAID2 ZFS array. You mean "root" and "swap", right? :-) > > The existing disks are 1TB and partly RAID, partly not. When I'm > done, I'll have 3 or 4 TB fully RAID with 2 parity disks. The truly > paranoid ZFS types like to have a diversity of disk manufacturers and > drives. I know Lennart hates Seagate. But this page: > http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/Category/guidedSearch.asp?CatId=8&sel=Detail%3B17_35_20594_28669,Detail%3B17_791_47515_47515 > has Toshiba, Samsung, and HP drives in addition to the WD-Reds that > I'm supposed to get (although they have Intellipower, I presume it can > be turned off). Does anyone have opinions about those other > manufacturers? Based on Tiger Direct's list, it looks like WD > pretty-much dominates the disk market these days. Samsung for both SSD and harddisk. I'm told Samsung sold the harddisk business to Seagate. WD-Red seems to be advertised for your kind of needs, but I have no experience with it. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 17 13:12:36 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 09:12:36 -0400 Subject: Honeypots... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can't offer any specific advice beyond what you've already suggested, but I just wanted to say that this is a great idea! I think it'd be great to document exactly what they're doing and then upload the video to Youtube for everyone to be educated about it. It's a little crazy that they keep calling you, though... Don't they keep track of who they already called? Or has this expanded into many organizations trying this same scam? On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > I got another one of those "Windows Technical Support" calls today > (seems to happen about once every fortnight), telling me that my > Windows PC had been sending them errors. I played along for as long as > I had the stomach for it, wasting their time before telling the man at > the other end that I was running Linux... > > At some point I would like to go the all the way with these @#$%. Any > thoughts on setting up a virtual Windows PC honeypot under Linux in > such a way that I can: > > - Easily track and capture exactly what these people are doing > (ideally in real time). I want both screen video and the files they > are manipulating. > - Record the phone conversation in sync with what is happening on > screen (I have an old device that will let me record phone calls on an > analog tape recorder but I want the recording to be in sync with the > screen video). > > I've used Oracle's Virtual Box in the past and that would be my first > pick for virtualization software, but is there a better pick for a > project like this? > > Further I have my OLD original copy of Windows 98, question is would > this be adequate, or is there another versions of Windows that I > should be after when dealing with these @#$%? > > In case anyone is wondering why I am considering this effort, well > there are multiple reasons. I have an intellectual curiosity as to > EXACTLY what these people are up to. If these people are trying to > scam me they can't be scamming the stupid (thus in turn hurting their > profits, and if they start loosing money they will stop :-) ). > > Thanks. > > > > Colin > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 17 15:08:53 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 11:08:53 -0400 Subject: Disk recommendations In-Reply-To: <20130417072658.GA13896-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130417072658.GA13896@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130417150853.GJ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 03:26:58AM -0400, William Park wrote: > Samsung for both SSD and harddisk. I'm told Samsung sold the harddisk > business to Seagate. WD-Red seems to be advertised for your kind of > needs, but I have no experience with it. Well harddisk makers are: Seagate (who owns maxtor (who owns quantum), samsung, and lacie) Toshiba (who owns fujitsu) Western Digital (who owns Hitachi GST (who owns IBM)) So that's all there is. Of course it is quite possible that a drive labeled hitachi will be of a different design and from a different manufacturing line than a drive that says western digital. For now. Personally I think the mixing of drive types is a load of crap. :) I want my raid performance to be good and hence would like my disks to match in model. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 18 01:31:52 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 21:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: little thing leaving bad impression of Ubuntu Message-ID: Simple-Scan is a useful little tool to let you use a scanner without needing to dive too deeply into scanner arcana. Remember how easy it was to use a photocopier most of the time? The current maintainer appears to be Robert Ancell of Canonical. The code is hosted on their launchpad. For the last three years, there has been a bug report that Simple Scan doesn't get th page size right. How fundamental is that? There's actually a clearer report but that was closed as a duplicate: Robert seems to be key to Mir, Ubuntu's replacement for X: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 18 14:15:10 2013 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob295) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 10:15:10 -0400 Subject: How can I find exact version of GPU driver running on my Kubuntu Linux Message-ID: <2441678.HOkSxD4TpG@bob-kubuntu> I've been fighting a battle to understand and fix a GPU hang error on my Kubuntu system. My system uses the Intel i915 driver. I've upgraded to the "latest and greatest" according to 01.org/linuxgraphics. Still no joy. How can I find the version number of the i915 driver which is installed and running? Thanks in advance for your help. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 18 14:25:59 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 10:25:59 -0400 Subject: How can I find exact version of GPU driver running on my Kubuntu Linux In-Reply-To: <2441678.HOkSxD4TpG@bob-kubuntu> References: <2441678.HOkSxD4TpG@bob-kubuntu> Message-ID: <20130418142559.GK21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:15:10AM -0400, bob295 wrote: > I've been fighting a battle to understand and fix a GPU hang error on my Kubuntu > system. My system uses the Intel i915 driver. I've upgraded to the > "latest and greatest" according to 01.org/linuxgraphics. Still no joy. > > How can I find the version number of the i915 driver which is installed and > running? > > Thanks in advance for your help. Check /var/log/Xorg.0.log For example I see: [ 304.841] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nouveau_drv.so [ 304.860] (II) Module nouveau: vendor="X.Org Foundation" [ 304.860] compiled for 1.12.4, module version = 1.0.1 [ 304.860] Module class: X.Org Video Driver [ 304.860] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 12.1 Seems reasonable given: ii xserver-xorg-video-nouveau 1:1.0.1-5 amd64 X.Org X server -- Nouveau display driver So 1.0.1 is the version of the nouveau driver I am using in X right now. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 18 14:43:13 2013 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob295) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 10:43:13 -0400 Subject: How can I find exact version of GPU driver running on my Kubuntu Linux In-Reply-To: <20130418142559.GK21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <2441678.HOkSxD4TpG@bob-kubuntu> <20130418142559.GK21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7008514.Sd5t597j9E@bob-kubuntu> On April 18, 2013 10:25:59 AM you wrote: > On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:15:10AM -0400, bob295 wrote: > > I've been fighting a battle to understand and fix a GPU hang error on my > > Kubuntu system. My system uses the Intel i915 driver. I've > > upgraded to the "latest and greatest" according to 01.org/linuxgraphics. > > Still no joy. > > > > How can I find the version number of the i915 driver which is installed > > and > > running? > > > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Check /var/log/Xorg.0.log > > For example I see: > > [ 304.841] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nouveau_drv.so > [ 304.860] (II) Module nouveau: vendor="X.Org Foundation" > [ 304.860] compiled for 1.12.4, module version = 1.0.1 > [ 304.860] Module class: X.Org Video Driver > [ 304.860] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 12.1 > > Seems reasonable given: > > ii xserver-xorg-video-nouveau 1:1.0.1-5 > amd64 X.Org X server -- Nouveau display driver > > So 1.0.1 is the version of the nouveau driver I am using in X right now. Thanks. Best I can tell from the Intel Tech Center site at: https://01.org/linuxgraphics/downloads/2013/2013q1-intel-graphics-stack-release the GPU fix I'm after is in a section called kernel (kernel module?) Any idea how I would see if that version is running? Thanks again in advance for your help. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 18 15:16:11 2013 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:16:11 -0400 Subject: How can I find exact version of GPU driver running on my Kubuntu Linux In-Reply-To: <7008514.Sd5t597j9E@bob-kubuntu> References: <2441678.HOkSxD4TpG@bob-kubuntu> <20130418142559.GK21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7008514.Sd5t597j9E@bob-kubuntu> Message-ID: > On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:43 AM, bob295 wrote: > Thanks. Best I can tell from the Intel Tech Center site at: > > https://01.org/linuxgraphics/downloads/2013/2013q1-intel-graphics-stack-release > > the GPU fix I'm after is in a section called kernel (kernel module?) Any idea > how I would see if that version is running? > Hey bob, It looks like you are referring to the "Kernel: Linux 3.8.2 http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v3.x/" bit of that page. If that's the case, you'll need to make sure that Linux Kernel 3.8.2 is installed. You can get your current running kernel version with "uname -a" like this: jshaw at jshaw:~$ uname -a Linux jshaw 3.5.0-23-generic #35-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jan 24 13:15:40 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux This shows that I'm running kernel version 3.5.0-23-generic, compiled for X86_64. The link provided by intel is for the generic kernel source code, straight from kernel.org, which means you'll need to either download that, configure it and compile it yourself, or find out if that kernel version is available for Kubuntu yet. I can't verify whether or not this will work for you, but I found an Ubuntu thread about installing 3.8.2: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2122056 If I misunderstood your question, sorry :) -jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 18 15:20:48 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:20:48 -0400 Subject: How can I find exact version of GPU driver running on my Kubuntu Linux In-Reply-To: <7008514.Sd5t597j9E@bob-kubuntu> References: <2441678.HOkSxD4TpG@bob-kubuntu> <20130418142559.GK21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7008514.Sd5t597j9E@bob-kubuntu> Message-ID: <20130418152048.GL21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:43:13AM -0400, bob295 wrote: > Thanks. Best I can tell from the Intel Tech Center site at: > > https://01.org/linuxgraphics/downloads/2013/2013q1-intel-graphics-stack-release > > the GPU fix I'm after is in a section called kernel (kernel module?) Any idea > how I would see if that version is running? > > Thanks again in advance for your help. Well they list xf86-video-intel 2.21.3, so I would look in the Xorg.0.log for that to see if it loaded it. On Debian unstable, the current version of the intel driver is: ii xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.19.0-6 amd64 X.Org X server -- Intel i8xx, i9xx display driver So 2.19.0 isn't that far from 2.21.3, so that does seem like a plausible version. Of course I also have xserver verwion 1.12.4, while intel has 1.13.2.902 on their page, so the driver there might now even be compatible with 1.12, or whatever your system happens to have, unless you replaced everything (which would probably break a ton of other things). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 20 05:37:12 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 01:37:12 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord Message-ID: Hi folks. Well, my kids have been badgering me to stop paying stooopid prices to Rogers and I'm ready to leap, switching my Internet and dumping my cable TV completely in favour of Internet/Netflix/Usenet/etc. Any assistance would be appreciated to help me with these: - This will be cable rather than DSL. Any comments, good or bad, about Teksavvy's cable service? Most of the comments I've read seem to be able the DSL stuff. - Is anyone here using (or looking into) vMedia? It looks too good to be true. I am especially intrigued by what their "VBOX" is beyond just a Google TV box. - Recommendations on a good router are welcome. Preferably something that could run OpenWRT and has gigabit on all wired ports. - Does the router need to be placed between my switch and the modem, or can it be just another device hanging off it? - Are there any tips based on previous experience on how to handle the transition from Rogers to Teksavvy or vMedia? How hard will Rogers try to talk me out of it (ie, like the retentions program they have for phone customers that can negotiate better deals?) Otherwise, how hard will Rogers make it to leave them? - Is anyone having any like with OTA, ie a good old antenna? I have a south facing wall on a three storey house in northwest Toronto, should I even try this? All replies are appreciated. -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 20 05:45:12 2013 From: marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 01:45:12 -0400 Subject: canadian vps hosting experiences In-Reply-To: <1340918554.37418.YahooMailNeo-ysga9ygs+gV+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1340918554.37418.YahooMailNeo@web164505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Did anybody try Dreamhost? I've worked on some of their servers for a school project and I was surprised to see 300MB and Terabytes of disk under my finger for some $15 a month. One of the servers had an old broken Debian install, and the support team refreshed it within a day. Performance was stunning. On the minus side, their website does not seem to do any justice to what I've experienced. No static IP available but a "unique IP" that is not guaranteed to stay the same... Advice/comments? 2012/6/28 E K > I had used hostway some years back in my previous employment. My server > used to be in Vancouver and my experience with them was really good. > > HTH > Equbay > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ben Walton > *To:* tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:35:16 AM > *Subject:* [TLUG]: canadian vps hosting experiences > > Hi All, > > Can anyone recommend a good Canadian VPS host? The machines must be > on Canadian soil. Bad experiences are also welcomed so that I can > avoid those companies. > > Thanks > -Ben > -- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ben Walton > > Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, > truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. > > -Christopher Hitchens > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 20 10:26:49 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 06:26:49 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130420102649.GB31686@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 01:37:12AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote > - This will be cable rather than DSL. Any comments, good or bad, > about Teksavvy's cable service? Most of the comments I've read seem > to be able the DSL stuff. Their support forum is at http://www.dslreports.com/forum/teksavvy Overall, cable seems to have more outages and congestion reports than ADSL. > - Is anyone having any like with OTA, ie a good old antenna? I have > a south facing wall on a three storey house in northwest Toronto, > should I even try this? It's beautiful. You'll get *REAL* HDTV, not compressed crud. I live in a 6th-floor condo near Dufferin+Steeles with a SSE view, and I get all the Toronto locals plus the major US networks from Buffalo. *AND I GET THE REAL SUPERBOWL COMMERCIALS*, 100% legally. There are a few weird features, e.g. the channel that shows up on your TV set may have no relation to the physical channel that it broadcasts on. "Virtual Channel Numbers" were thrown into the ATSC standard to allow stations to keep multiple years of "branding", despite the fact that almost every TV station moved to UHF, and the ones that didn't are regretting it. Also, digital is not necessarily HD, e.g. if they're broadcasting a re-run that was originally recorded for NTSC. Two questions... 1) Can you see the CN Tower from your house? If the answer is "YES", then you're almost guaranteed great reception. 2) Do you have an unobstructed view to the SSE? Most of the Buffalo TV stations broadcast from the Grand Island, NY "antenna farm". Contact me offlist, and I can bring over a small tabletop UHF antenna that I use. We can test it for a few minutes. It may be all you need. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 20 12:19:28 2013 From: ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Ian Garmaise) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 08:19:28 -0400 Subject: canadian vps hosting experiences In-Reply-To: References: <1340918554.37418.YahooMailNeo@web164505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've been using Dreamhost for a client for five years with few problems (php app with light usage, shared hosting). You can get a static ip for an annual fee. I had one for a while. Because they are such a major player, they have unfortunately come under extended DDOS attacks recently which has caused some problems. There's no free phone support in Canada, but their email response is pretty good, and their knowledge base is comprehensive and useful. Only other problem I have had is with the mailto system (they have had delivery delays of up to a couple of days where mail gets spooled up after an incident). I've heard that switching to smtp (either with Dreamhost or something like Sendgrid) will resolve that problem and am doing that now. I have a friend who has dozens of clients running off a single Dreamhost account with no major issues. Ian On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 1:45 AM, Marc Lijour wrote: > Did anybody try Dreamhost? I've worked on some of their servers for a > school project and I was surprised to see 300MB and Terabytes of disk under > my finger for some $15 a month. One of the servers had an old broken Debian > install, and the support team refreshed it within a day. Performance was > stunning. > > On the minus side, their website does not seem to do any justice to what > I've experienced. No static IP available but a "unique IP" that is not > guaranteed to stay the same... > > Advice/comments? > > > 2012/6/28 E K > >> I had used hostway some years back in my previous employment. My server >> used to be in Vancouver and my experience with them was really good. >> >> HTH >> Equbay >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Ben Walton >> *To:* tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:35:16 AM >> *Subject:* [TLUG]: canadian vps hosting experiences >> >> Hi All, >> >> Can anyone recommend a good Canadian VPS host? The machines must be >> on Canadian soil. Bad experiences are also welcomed so that I can >> avoid those companies. >> >> Thanks >> -Ben >> -- >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Ben Walton >> >> Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, >> truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. >> >> -Christopher Hitchens >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> >> > -- ===== Ian Garmaise Consultant Phorix Solutions Group Inc. ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Skype: iantor Toronto: 416.432.2251 NYC: 917.512.9535 http://www.PhorixSol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 20 14:29:20 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 10:29:20 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130420142920.GA2718@node1.localdomain> On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 01:37:12AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi folks. > > Well, my kids have been badgering me to stop paying stooopid prices to > Rogers and I'm ready to leap, switching my Internet and dumping my cable TV > completely in favour of Internet/Netflix/Usenet/etc. > > Any assistance would be appreciated to help me with these: > > > - This will be cable rather than DSL. Any comments, good or bad, about > Teksavvy's cable service? Most of the comments I've read seem to be able > the DSL stuff. I'm on cable with Teksavvy for both internet (Express Cable 18) and phone (TekTalk Basic VoIP). No complaint. No billing issue. I am with Rogers for cell phone. Their Pay-As-You-Go is the cheapest I could find: - $5/month for 250 text - $0.40/min voice -- I rarely use voice. I use their automatic "Top-Up". So, it's fixed monthly charge, and no billing issue. > > - Is anyone here using (or looking into) vMedia? It looks too good to be > true. I am especially intrigued by what their "VBOX" is beyond just a > Google TV box. > > - Recommendations on a good router are welcome. Preferably something > that could run OpenWRT and has gigabit on all wired ports. We have Linksys, D-Link, and TP-Link, in that order. I would like to try Asus. :-) > > - Does the router need to be placed between my switch and the modem, or > can it be just another device hanging off it? > > - Are there any tips based on previous experience on how to handle the > transition from Rogers to Teksavvy or vMedia? How hard will Rogers try to > talk me out of it (ie, like the retentions program they have for phone > customers that can negotiate better deals?) Otherwise, how hard will Rogers > make it to leave them? For me, it was 30-day notice with 5-days to return modem. Make sure you return any rental. > > - Is anyone having any like with OTA, ie a good old antenna? I have a > south facing wall on a three storey house in northwest Toronto, should I > even try this? I have OTA. Itemized cost from top of my head: - $50 -- 4-bay antenna (has wider angle than 8-bay) - $75 -- wires, parts, tools (I got lots of cable connectors) - $75 -- external tuner (my TV is "HDTV ready" meaning it doesn't have TV tuner builtin) Location of antenna is the most important factor. - height -- higher the better - direction -- obviously. From where I am (Mississauga west), CN Tower and Buffalo is 90 degress (bad), so my antenna is pointing half way. We get full Canadian channels from CN Tower, and some Buffalo ones. - distance from tuner -- shorter the better. Mine is 100feet, and Buffalo channels are weak. Pay attention to the grounding. Grounding rod should be nearest from the antenna (usually means straight down) into "moist" ground. Just follow the eaves and downdrain. > > > All replies are appreciated. > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > Toronto Canada > > Em: evan at telly dot org > Sk: evanleibovitch > Tw: el56 -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 20 21:29:40 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 17:29:40 -0400 Subject: xonar hdav1.3 with no sound Message-ID: <20130420212940.GA9797@watson-wilson.ca> Greetings, I've installed an Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 sound card. I'm using basic analog output. I get no sound. aplay is silent. Alsamixer checks out and nothing is muted. Any ideas? ettin:/etc/modprobe.d# aplay -l **** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices **** card 0: HDAV13 [Xonar HDAV1.3], device 0: Multichannel [Multichannel] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 card 0: HDAV13 [Xonar HDAV1.3], device 1: Digital [Digital] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 lspci -v shows 03:04.0 Multimedia audio controller: C-Media Electronics Inc CMI8788 [Oxygen HD Audio] Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Virtuoso 200 (Xonar HDAV1.3) Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 19 I/O ports at d800 [size=256] Capabilities: [c0] Power Management version 2 Kernel driver in use: snd_virtuoso -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 20 23:02:35 2013 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 19:02:35 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know someone who went down the same path :) on talking to Rogers about the high cost, to make a long story short , to keep the customer, specials, etc, where put in place to cut cost by 1/2 to receive the same tv/internet services. Its amazing how these companies will magically have massively different pricing if you express a need to leave. -tl On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 1:37 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi folks. > > Well, my kids have been badgering me to stop paying stooopid prices to > Rogers and I'm ready to leap, switching my Internet and dumping my cable TV > completely in favour of Internet/Netflix/Usenet/etc. > > Any assistance would be appreciated to help me with these: > > > - This will be cable rather than DSL. Any comments, good or bad, about > Teksavvy's cable service? Most of the comments I've read seem to be able > the DSL stuff. > > - Is anyone here using (or looking into) vMedia? It looks too good to > be true. I am especially intrigued by what their "VBOX" is beyond just a > Google TV box. > > - Recommendations on a good router are welcome. Preferably something > that could run OpenWRT and has gigabit on all wired ports. > > - Does the router need to be placed between my switch and the modem, > or can it be just another device hanging off it? > > - Are there any tips based on previous experience on how to handle the > transition from Rogers to Teksavvy or vMedia? How hard will Rogers try to > talk me out of it (ie, like the retentions program they have for phone > customers that can negotiate better deals?) Otherwise, how hard will Rogers > make it to leave them? > > - Is anyone having any like with OTA, ie a good old antenna? I have a > south facing wall on a three storey house in northwest Toronto, should I > even try this? > > > All replies are appreciated. > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > Toronto Canada > > Em: evan at telly dot org > Sk: evanleibovitch > Tw: el56 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 05:05:50 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:05:50 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Update. *OTA Status:* I found an indoor antenna (a Philips PHDTV3) in my basement, attached it to my flatscreen, and picked up: - CTV, CBC, CBC-F, TVO and Global: crystal clear and in HD (Global also has a LD channel :-P ) - City, Omni and CTS: usually OK but sometimes cut out - Nothing else Still, I guess that's not too bad for an indoor first-floor placement against a west-facing wall. I imagine I could do even better outside on the 3rd floor balcony, but even that will probably suffice . Testing to continue. (Anyone know where I can get a cheap coax cable tester locally?) *Proposed setup:* Given the input that has been received, together with my own research, here's how I think I'd like to proceed. Critique eagerly welcomed. - Service providers: Looks like It'll be TekSavvy for cable Internet. vMedia looks interesting but it seems their main interest is in IPTV, and now that I've confirmed I can get the real basics from even an indoor OTA, I feel no need to pay for CRTC-mandated services I don't care for. Even IPTV looks like a hacked together, DRM-ish kludge - Server software: Plex, SABnzbd, MythTV (if I need it) - Media sources: OTA, LAN-based files, web-based media, Usenet-based media - New server hardware (P5, 8GB, lotsa disk) - Cable modem: Lifehacker recommends the Motorola SB6141 - OTA tuner: SiliconDust HDHomeRun (If its Plex plugin is good enough I might not need MythTV) - Antenna: I wonder if I can mount something on the side balcony without needing to ground it (or put it on a pole. Recommendations for makes and models are welcome. especially considering the intended mounting. - Set-top boxes: an existing Playstation3 in the main room, for the others either Google TV or Roku (or something else?) *Open questions:* - Does anyone here have any experience with the HDHomerun? - Any specific server recommendations? I was thinking of just building a whitebox at Canada Computers of NCIX so I could avoid paying for Windows. - What are people using/recommending for set top boxes? (The Asus Cube comes out this week, that could be interesting...) Again, thanks for any comments. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 05:17:49 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:17:49 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hmm. I think that even a sweet retention deal will not keep me. Ditching Rogers and going TekSavvy will cut my monthly costs by more than two thirds, recovering my hardware costs in a hurry. And this past week I received an email that Rogers was "improving my TV experience" by moving a channel I liked out of my channel bundle and into another that would have cost me even more. Enough! Anything I can't find on Netflix, Sickbeard, what I can get on OTA or Plex's streaming channels may not be worth watching :-P. - Evan On 20 April 2013 19:02, ted leslie wrote: > I know someone who went down the same path :) > on talking to Rogers about the high cost, to make a long story short , to > keep the customer, specials, etc, where put in place to > cut cost by 1/2 to receive the same tv/internet services. Its amazing how > these companies will magically have massively different pricing if you > express a > need to leave. > > -tl > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 1:37 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> Hi folks. >> >> Well, my kids have been badgering me to stop paying stooopid prices to >> Rogers and I'm ready to leap, switching my Internet and dumping my cable TV >> completely in favour of Internet/Netflix/Usenet/etc. >> >> Any assistance would be appreciated to help me with these: >> >> >> - This will be cable rather than DSL. Any comments, good or bad, >> about Teksavvy's cable service? Most of the comments I've read seem to be >> able the DSL stuff. >> >> - Is anyone here using (or looking into) vMedia? It looks too good to >> be true. I am especially intrigued by what their "VBOX" is beyond just a >> Google TV box. >> >> - Recommendations on a good router are welcome. Preferably something >> that could run OpenWRT and has gigabit on all wired ports. >> >> - Does the router need to be placed between my switch and the modem, >> or can it be just another device hanging off it? >> >> - Are there any tips based on previous experience on how to handle >> the transition from Rogers to Teksavvy or vMedia? How hard will Rogers try >> to talk me out of it (ie, like the retentions program they have for phone >> customers that can negotiate better deals?) Otherwise, how hard will Rogers >> make it to leave them? >> >> - Is anyone having any like with OTA, ie a good old antenna? I have a >> south facing wall on a three storey house in northwest Toronto, should I >> even try this? >> >> >> All replies are appreciated. >> >> -- >> Evan Leibovitch >> Toronto Canada >> >> Em: evan at telly dot org >> Sk: evanleibovitch >> Tw: el56 >> >> > -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 05:25:40 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Evan Leibovitch | - Antenna: I wonder if I can mount something on the side balcony without | needing to ground it Lightning is kind of serious. My impression is that TekSavvy isn't the same as old TekSavvy. Their techs aren't what the used to be. But their offerings are definitely interesting. Since they offer both VDSL2 and Cable, maybe they could help you choose. If you choose cable, I've heard that there is a funny cooling off period between Rogers shutting down your old service and TekSavvy being able to start your new service. If that bothers you, that might be an argument for ADSL. I personally like an overlap in service. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 05:31:09 2013 From: marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:31:09 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What about Bell fiber? How does it fare? Pricing looks ok for high speed -and I'm far from the CO for good dsl. On 2013-04-21 1:26 AM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > | From: Evan Leibovitch > > | - Antenna: I wonder if I can mount something on the side balcony > without > | needing to ground it > > Lightning is kind of serious. > > My impression is that TekSavvy isn't the same as old TekSavvy. Their > techs aren't what the used to be. But their offerings are definitely > interesting. > > Since they offer both VDSL2 and Cable, maybe they could help you > choose. > > If you choose cable, I've heard that there is a funny cooling off > period between Rogers shutting down your old service and TekSavvy > being able to start your new service. If that bothers you, that might > be an argument for ADSL. I personally like an overlap in service. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 11:46:04 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 07:46:04 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5173D17C.8020707@gmail.com> On 13-04-21 01:17 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Anything I can't find on Netflix ... Don't forget the extra $5/month for http://www.unblock-us.com/ ? it gives you access to US/UK/European Netflix. Canadian Netflix is a bit thin in comparison. Best to only set the device your viewing Netflix from to use Unblock-US's VPN, rather than at the router. They're more geared from streaming than uploading, and they didn't like my home's five computers blasting hourly updates to Crashplan at all. On 13-04-21 01:25 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > My impression is that TekSavvy isn't the same as old TekSavvy. ... I don't think that model would have scaled. Old (c. 2006) TekSavvy technical support for the GTA was a bloke in Hamilton's cell number. It was a family-run shop then, and you couldn't keep it that way with the number of customers they have now. While TS's tech support isn't as stellar as it used to be, they will call you back, and they will skip at least a level of Bell's ?Have you tried turning it off and on again?? helpdesk. I've had TS support people on the line for over an hour, going through every diagnostic that could be plaguing my 25/10 setup. The difficulty with any kind of technical support debugging is it seldom deals with the root cause: you get just enough to get the current problem to go away, but not quite enough to keep it coming back. It appears that /someone/ at either Bell or TekSavvy periodically resets line profiles to defaults for DSL. For some reason, my line works best on a non-standard profile. Every six months or so, my network speed drops to almost nothing, and I have to bug TekSavvy to restore it. Both TekSavvy and Bell plead ignorance, and I'm sure not doing anything to it. But this is just my DSL gripe, and it won't affect you, Evan. Now, if only I could do something about my $72/month Bell landline bill ... cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 13:28:10 2013 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 09:28:10 -0400 Subject: xonar hdav1.3 with no sound In-Reply-To: <20130420212940.GA9797-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130420212940.GA9797@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20130421132810.GB19654@amber> On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 05:29:40PM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > lspci -v shows > 03:04.0 Multimedia audio controller: C-Media Electronics Inc CMI8788 [Oxygen HD Audio] > Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Virtuoso 200 (Xonar HDAV1.3) > Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 19 > I/O ports at d800 [size=256] > Capabilities: [c0] Power Management version 2 > Kernel driver in use: snd_virtuoso I have an ASUS Xonar card that shows up the same way in lspci -v, and it works fine with no problems. Have you checked your BIOS settings? Linux might see the hardware but the BIOS (or possibly your alsarc settings) are routing everything elsewhere, say to an onboard cheap sound chip. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 14:01:21 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:01:21 -0400 Subject: xonar hdav1.3 with no sound In-Reply-To: <20130421132810.GB19654@amber> References: <20130420212940.GA9797@watson-wilson.ca> <20130421132810.GB19654@amber> Message-ID: <20130421140121.GA20572@watson-wilson.ca> On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 09:28:10AM -0400, Peter King wrote: >I have an ASUS Xonar card that shows up the same way in lspci -v, and it works fine >with no problems. Have you checked your BIOS settings? Linux might see the hardware >but the BIOS (or possibly your alsarc settings) are routing everything elsewhere, say >to an onboard cheap sound chip. There is no onboard audio. If I set the host to play music the pulseaudio monitor shows sound levels, but I hear nothing. I had an M-audio 2496 working fine. I switched because the m-audio has no preamp making microphone level too low. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 14:47:55 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:47:55 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5173FC1B.1010403@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I found an indoor antenna (a Philips PHDTV3) in my basement, attached > it to my flatscreen, and picked up: > > * CTV, CBC, CBC-F, TVO and Global: crystal clear and in HD (Global > also has a LD channel :-P ) > * City, Omni and CTS: usually OK but sometimes cut out > * Nothing else > A friend of mine lives near Kingston Rd. & Woodbine. She tried one of those compact amplified antennas on the 2nd floor of her house. She also had poor results with it. I then loaned her a set top UHF antenna I bought many years ago, and she now gets many more stations, including Buffalo than she got with that amplified antenna. BTW, I bought that antenna to receive Ch 23 Buffalo, which was then the 2nd PBS station and not carried on cable. I lived in a 14th floor apartment in the Port Credit area of Mississauga back then. I could place that antenna in my living room window and get a better quality picture than anything on cable. That antenna is a simple double bow tie with reflector. So, if you want to get better reception, you'd likely need a decent antenna, as high as you can get it. You may also want to consider 2 antennas, a UHF for most of the channels, facing towards Buffalo and a VHF hi facing Hamilton, to get Ch 11. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 14:59:57 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:59:57 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 1:37 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi folks. > > Well, my kids have been badgering me to stop paying stooopid prices to > Rogers and I'm ready to leap, switching my Internet and dumping my cable TV > completely in favour of Internet/Netflix/Usenet/etc. Welcome to the club, I cut the cord end of last November when I moved. It hurts a bit, but not nearly as much as Rogers customer "service". > Any assistance would be appreciated to help me with these: > > This will be cable rather than DSL. Any comments, good or bad, about > Teksavvy's cable service? Most of the comments I've read seem to be able the > DSL stuff. I've heard nice things about Teksavvy's DSL service, but nothing about their cable. For myself, I am with the Toronto Free-Net. > Is anyone here using (or looking into) vMedia? It looks too good to be true. > I am especially intrigued by what their "VBOX" is beyond just a Google TV > box. > > Recommendations on a good router are welcome. Preferably something that > could run OpenWRT and has gigabit on all wired ports. I will assume part of the role the router will have is to send streaming video to other routers around the house to support set-top boxes, etc., that you don't want to (or can't) run Ethernet cable to. I'd suggest the Linksys E2500 router. Fairly inexpensive, readily available (I bought mine at FutureShop), can run on the 2.4GHz AND 5GHz bands (unlike the somewhat less expensive E1550), can run on 2.4GHz and 5GHz simultaneously, can run the DD-WRT software (and by extension I assume OpenWRT). The wired ports are however "only" 100MB, not gigabit (mind you I don't see this as a significant issue at present). To note the obvious, streaming video is a bandwidth monster, a problem when seemingly every smart phone, laptop, etc. is using 2.4GHz. A current check found 24 wireless 2,4GHz hotspots in/near my apartment and zero 5GHz hotspots. For video streaming you want to be on 5GHz, with fewer people using it, and more channels to choose from, your chances of getting enough bandwidth are FAR FAR better. On the other hand you do still want support for 2.4GHz to handle your smart phone(s) and other devices that don't have the hardware to support 5GHz operation. A CURRENT problem with the DD-WRT software is that it doesn't support 5GHz operation, on the other hand there is Tomato Linux (sort of). Tomato Linux has splinter and forked, so there are some versions of Tomato Linux that do support the 2.4GHz and 5GHz operation, I am currently running Tomato by Shibby (.http://tomato.groov.pl/) and at present am happy with that. > Does the router need to be placed between my switch and the modem, or can it > be just another device hanging off it? >From a technical standpoint, shouldn't matter, BUT... If you have the router before the switch you can use the router's QoS (Quality of Service), Bandwidth and Access control tools for everyone/everything on your network. > Are there any tips based on previous experience on how to handle the > transition from Rogers to Teksavvy or vMedia? How hard will Rogers try to > talk me out of it (ie, like the retentions program they have for phone > customers that can negotiate better deals?) Otherwise, how hard will Rogers > make it to leave them? I told them I was leaving, PERIOD. They did send me a letter asking me to call in and explain why I was leaving, for a $25 gift card (which I did, short answer I gave them was ROTTEN customer service (which was the main reason, but there were also costs)). Any event I ended up with a Shoppers Drugmart $25 gift card that I used to help get a Sony Blu-ray player. The Blu-ray player besides being able to play HD movies off disk, does have an Ethernet port on it, so it can grab a range of free and pay content off the net. > Is anyone having any like with OTA, ie a good old antenna? I have a south > facing wall on a three storey house in northwest Toronto, should I even try > this? I use and like OTA just wish I was better placed at present. > All replies are appreciated. > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > Toronto Canada > > Em: evan at telly dot org > Sk: evanleibovitch > Tw: el56 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 16:39:20 2013 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 09:39:20 -0700 Subject: xonar hdav1.3 with no sound In-Reply-To: <20130421140121.GA20572-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130420212940.GA9797@watson-wilson.ca> <20130421132810.GB19654@amber> <20130421140121.GA20572@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: All jacks don't work? Try alsamixer and look for a muted output. On Apr 21, 2013 7:02 AM, "Neil Watson" wrote: > On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 09:28:10AM -0400, Peter King wrote: > >> I have an ASUS Xonar card that shows up the same way in lspci -v, and it >> works fine >> with no problems. Have you checked your BIOS settings? Linux might see >> the hardware >> but the BIOS (or possibly your alsarc settings) are routing everything >> elsewhere, say >> to an onboard cheap sound chip. >> > > There is no onboard audio. If I set the host to play music the > pulseaudio monitor shows sound levels, but I hear nothing. > > I had an M-audio 2496 working fine. I switched because the m-audio has > no preamp making microphone level too low. > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 17:28:17 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 13:28:17 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 21 April 2013 10:59, Colin McGregor wrote: > > Is anyone here using (or looking into) vMedia? It looks too good to be > true. I am especially intrigued by what their "VBOX" is beyond just a > Google TV box. > > > > Recommendations on a good router are welcome. Preferably something > that could run OpenWRT and has gigabit on all wired ports. > > I will assume part of the role the router will have is to send streaming > video to other routers around the house to support set-top boxes, etc., > that you don't want to (or can't) run Ethernet cable to. > Fortunately, I am the original owner of the house I live in, and we paid a little extra at construction time to have CAT5 run everywhere but the bathrooms. So all the set top boxes (and printers, NAS, servers, etc) can be connected by Ethernet and only the mobile devices need Wifi. It's the reason I'm considering the HDHomeRun for my OTA tuner; I can locate it upstairs -- close to the antenna -- while still being on the LAN. I'd suggest the Linksys E2500 router. Fairly inexpensive, readily available > (I bought mine at FutureShop), can run on the 2.4GHz AND 5GHz bands (unlike > the somewhat less expensive E1550), can run on 2.4GHz and 5GHz > simultaneously, can run the DD-WRT software (and by extension I assume > OpenWRT). The wired ports are however "only" 100MB, not gigabit (mind you I > don't see this as a significant issue at present). > I guess for the router that may not be a big deal since the external gateway (ie, the cablemodem) isn't exceeding 100MB anyway. > To note the obvious, streaming video is a bandwidth monster, a > problem when seemingly every smart phone, laptop, etc. is using 2.4GHz. > A current check found 24 wireless 2,4GHz hotspots in/near my apartment and > zero 5GHz hotspots. For video streaming you want to be on 5GHz, with fewer > people using it, and more channels to choose from, your chances of getting > enough bandwidth are FAR FAR better. On the other hand you do still want > support for 2.4GHz to handle your smart phone(s) and other devices that > don't have the hardware to support 5GHz operation. > Hmm. Since my non-mobile devices will all be wired this may not be an issue. Of more concern is that the firewall needs to be at the demarcation point but the hotsport may need to be elsewhere. > > Does the router need to be placed between my switch and the modem, or > can it be just another device hanging off it? > > From a technical standpoint, shouldn't matter, BUT... If you have > the router before the switch you can use the router's QoS (Quality > of Service), Bandwidth and Access control tools for everyone/everything on > your network. > The main function of the router will be NAT, DHCP and basic firewall. Guess it will need to be between the switch and cablemodem anyway, which means I may need an access point or booster elsewhere in the house. The cable demarcation point (and the junction for the house's CAT5 drops) is in an awful location for the hotspot. > Are there any tips based on previous experience on how to handle the > > transition from Rogers to Teksavvy or vMedia? How hard will Rogers try to > > talk me out of it (ie, like the retentions program they have for phone > > customers that can negotiate better deals?) Otherwise, how hard will > Rogers > > make it to leave them? > > I told them I was leaving, PERIOD. They did send me a letter asking me to > call in and explain why I was leaving, for a $25 gift card (which I did, > short answer I gave them was ROTTEN customer service (which was the main > reason, but there were also costs)). Any event I ended up with a Shoppers > Drugmart $25 gift card that I used to help get a Sony Blu-ray player. The > Blu-ray player besides being able to play HD movies off disk, does have an > Ethernet port on it, so it can grab a range of free and pay content off the > net. > Shoppers Drug Mart sells Bluray players? Some Samsung blu-ray players can run a Plex clients, which might make them usable set top boxes. Thanks for all the comments. These were extremely helpful. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 17:35:03 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 13:35:03 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51742347.7000306@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Shoppers Drug Mart sells Bluray players? > Of course they do. They're right next to the used tires. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 17:59:38 2013 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 13:59:38 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: <51742347.7000306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <51742347.7000306@rogers.com> Message-ID: I can't wait for the day when Cdn Tire starts selling condoms: Tires, windshield wipers, condoms...they're all rubber*. *OK, ok. Plastic rubber. ;). > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> Shoppers Drug Mart sells Bluray players? >> > > Of course they do. They're right next to the used tires. ;-) > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 20:04:03 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 16:04:03 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 1:05 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Update. > > OTA Status: > > I found an indoor antenna (a Philips PHDTV3) in my basement, attached it to > my flatscreen, and picked up: > > CTV, CBC, CBC-F, TVO and Global: crystal clear and in HD (Global also has a > LD channel :-P ) > City, Omni and CTS: usually OK but sometimes cut out > Nothing else > > Still, I guess that's not too bad for an indoor first-floor placement > against a west-facing wall. I imagine I could do even better outside on the > 3rd floor balcony, but even that will probably suffice . Testing to > continue. (Anyone know where I can get a cheap coax cable tester locally?) > > > Proposed setup: > > Given the input that has been received, together with my own research, > here's how I think I'd like to proceed. Critique eagerly welcomed. > > Service providers: Looks like It'll be TekSavvy for cable Internet. vMedia > looks interesting but it seems their main interest is in IPTV, and now that > I've confirmed I can get the real basics from even an indoor OTA, I feel no > need to pay for CRTC-mandated services I don't care for. Even IPTV looks > like a hacked together, DRM-ish kludge > > Server software: Plex, SABnzbd, MythTV (if I need it) > > Media sources: OTA, LAN-based files, web-based media, Usenet-based media > > New server hardware (P5, 8GB, lotsa disk) > > Cable modem: Lifehacker recommends the Motorola SB6141 > > OTA tuner: SiliconDust HDHomeRun (If its Plex plugin is good enough I might > not need MythTV) > > Antenna: I wonder if I can mount something on the side balcony without > needing to ground it (or put it on a pole. Recommendations for makes and > models are welcome. especially considering the intended mounting. I am currently using a Wineguard SquareShooter SS-2000 (http://www.winegarddirect.com/squareshooter-ss1000-ss2000/winegard-square-shooter.asp). This was to replace a Wineguard GS-2200 that wasn't quite as good, and space wise has issues in my apartment. > Set-top boxes: an existing Playstation3 in the main room, for the others > either Google TV or Roku (or something else?) > > > Open questions: > > - Does anyone here have any experience with the HDHomerun? I don't but, it does seem to be well liked by some in the MythTV community. In the main, when doing MythTV servers I've gone with Hauppauge internal cards. > - Any specific server recommendations? I was thinking of just building a > whitebox at Canada Computers of NCIX so I could avoid paying for Windows. This is what I have done. I do like the Silverstone cases for my MythTV boxes as (depending on model) they make my MythTV box look more like a piece of audio equipment than a PC. > - What are people using/recommending for set top boxes? (The Asus Cube comes > out this week, that could be interesting...) I'm looking into this myself. I have been looking at what can be done with Raspberry Pi, not sure if this is my answer... > Again, thanks for any comments. > > - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 20:54:25 2013 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 16:54:25 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 04/20/2013 01:37 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi folks. > > Well, my kids have been badgering me to stop paying stooopid prices to > Rogers and I'm ready to leap, switching my Internet and dumping my > cable TV completely in favour of Internet/Netflix/Usenet/etc. > Evan, what are you giving up with this move? Let's say you want to watch the Jays, which are not carried on CBC or CTV, would you still be able to do it or would you have to give that up? John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 21:56:36 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 17:56:36 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Decent question. I am almost certainly giving up some real-time access to sporting events, but that's my choice. I could sign up for MLB.tv, which would give me Internet access to every MLB game, Jays and others, for $20 a month.As it is, one of the few sports I *do* want to watch (cricket) is an extra cost option on Rogers anyway. If you have Bell, Sportsnet One is an extra cost package; ditto for TSN2 if you have Rogers. So I'm just glad to get away from that mess. Real-time access to news is not sacrificed, given so many Internet news sites (including ones I trust that aren't on Canadian TV) The Comedy Network puts Stewart and Colbert online; that's already a big chunk of my routine viewing. Many other cable networks put their shows online. I will pay for access *or* endure commercial to get the content I want, it makes no sense for content to demand both. If I want paid media services such as movies and TV, I will get Netflix for $8/month (plus extra, perhaps, for access to US-only content); if I am able to subscribe to Hulu plus I might do that) .There are many other paid and free channels on Plex if I want them. And I still have access to newer PPV movies via Google Play etc What I expect to miss the most is just putting on mindless random video background noise after a day of work. That's what Rogers' line-up is best at :-P On 21 April 2013 16:54, John Moniz wrote: > On 04/20/2013 01:37 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> Hi folks. >> >> Well, my kids have been badgering me to stop paying stooopid prices to >> Rogers and I'm ready to leap, switching my Internet and dumping my cable TV >> completely in favour of Internet/Netflix/Usenet/etc. >> >> Evan, what are you giving up with this move? Let's say you want to watch > the Jays, which are not carried on CBC or CTV, would you still be able to > do it or would you have to give that up? > > John. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 21 22:25:03 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 18:25:03 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Decent question. > > I am almost certainly giving up some real-time access to sporting events, > but that's my choice. I could sign up for MLB.tv, which would give me > Internet access to every MLB game, Jays and others, for $20 a month.As it > is, one of the few sports I *do* want to watch (cricket) is an extra cost > option on Rogers anyway. If you have Bell, Sportsnet One is an extra cost > package; ditto for TSN2 if you have Rogers. So I'm just glad to get away > from that mess. > > Real-time access to news is not sacrificed, given so many Internet news > sites (including ones I trust that aren't on Canadian TV) > > The Comedy Network puts Stewart and Colbert online; that's already a big > chunk of my routine viewing. Many other cable networks put their shows > online. I will pay for access *or* endure commercial to get the content I > want, it makes no sense for content to demand both. The local CTV station runs "The Daily Show" with Jon Stewart and "The Colbert Report" 65 minutes after they run on the Comedy Network (11:00 PM vs 12:05 AM and 11:30 PM vs 12:35 AM). I can wait 65 minutes (well, except those few nights when I have insomnia, I wait until the next morning for "The Daily Show", recording it on my MythTV box (I normally don't bother with "The Colbert Report")). Also, MythTV has a VERY good commercial auto-detect/skip function :-) . > If I want paid media services such as movies and TV, I will get Netflix for > $8/month (plus extra, perhaps, for access to US-only content); if I am able > to subscribe to Hulu plus I might do that) .There are many other paid and > free channels on Plex if I want them. And I still have access to newer PPV > movies via Google Play etc > > What I expect to miss the most is just putting on mindless random video > background noise after a day of work. That's what Rogers' line-up is best at > :-P > > > > On 21 April 2013 16:54, John Moniz wrote: >> >> On 04/20/2013 01:37 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks. >>> >>> Well, my kids have been badgering me to stop paying stooopid prices to >>> Rogers and I'm ready to leap, switching my Internet and dumping my cable TV >>> completely in favour of Internet/Netflix/Usenet/etc. >>> >> Evan, what are you giving up with this move? Let's say you want to watch >> the Jays, which are not carried on CBC or CTV, would you still be able to do >> it or would you have to give that up? >> >> John. >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > Toronto Canada > > Em: evan at telly dot org > Sk: evanleibovitch > Tw: el56 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 01:23:32 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:23:32 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130422012332.GA3182@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 01:05:50AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote > Update. > > *OTA Status:* > > I found an indoor antenna (a Philips PHDTV3) in my basement, attached it to > my flatscreen, and picked up: > > - CTV, CBC, CBC-F, TVO and Global: crystal clear and in HD (Global also > has a LD channel :-P ) > - City, Omni and CTS: usually OK but sometimes cut out > - Nothing else I tried PHDTV3 once... it's underwhelming, to say the least. It's a garbage antenna with a pre-amp. Amplifying noise gives you more noise. http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?slg=en&scy=us&ctn=US2-PHDTV3 A better choice is the ChannelMaster CM 4040 http://overtheair.saveandreplay.com/channel_master_4040_indoor_Antenna.asp You can pick up the antenna for $20+tax at their Mississauga store on Kennedy south of Steeles... *NO NOT THAT* Kennedy+Steeles. The Kennedy in Missisauga. http://www.saveandreplay.com/localpickup.asp > Still, I guess that's not too bad for an indoor first-floor placement > against a west-facing wall. I imagine I could do even better outside > on the 3rd floor balcony, but even that will probably suffice. Do you have a south-facing window on the 2nd or 3rd floor? Note, make sure that it's not covered by a screen. Metal blocks UHF broadcast. > - Service providers: Looks like It'll be TekSavvy for cable Internet. If it's a standalone house, you probably can't get in excess of 6 megabits ADSL, probably 5 megabits net. So cable is probably the only way to get faster speed. Teksavvy cable seems to have more complaints about outages/slowdowns/congestion/etc than Teksavvy ADSL or FTTN. Check your address on Bell's website to see if you can get FTTN, which would imply you can get it via Teksavvy. > - Cable modem: Lifehacker recommends the Motorola SB6141 Check on Teksavvy's forum http://www.dslreports.com/forum/teksavvy for supported DOCSIS 3 modems. Your best bet is buying the modem from Teksavvy. Note that Rogers (whose infrastructure Teksavvy uses) only supports certain modems. *DO NOT BUY A MODEM WITHOUT CONFIRMING THAT IT'S SUPPORTED!!!* > - OTA tuner: SiliconDust HDHomeRun (If its Plex plugin is good enough I > might not need MythTV) > > - Does anyone here have any experience with the HDHomerun? I have one (the 2-tuner) model. It works. http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/hdhomerun-ca-canada/ The pros... * linux drivers * commandline and optional Gtk GUI * support forums, including linux * MythTV integration * two separate tuners with their own antenna inputs - record one program while watching another - great if some TV stations require different antenna orientation The cons... (note; my model is a few years old; may be improvements now) * the IP address always comes up somewhere in the 169.254.0.0/16 block * the tuner on my HDHR is weaker than on my TV set. I.e. same antenna same location... - plug into TV; it gets the Toronto stations plus majors from Buffalo - plug into HDHomerun; it only gets the Toronto stations > - Antenna: I wonder if I can mount something on the side balcony > without needing to ground it (or put it on a pole. Recommendations > for makes and models are welcome. especially considering the > intended mounting. I suggest the tabletop CM 4040 behind a south-facing window if at all possible. It's the quickest/dirtiest/easiest solution. If you need a roof mounted antenna, spend the money to get a pro to do it. Maybe consider a rotater while you're at it. BTW, what major intersection are you nearest to? You can run an analysis at http://tvfool.com to see what's available. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 04:51:36 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 00:51:36 -0400 Subject: How do I *PERMANENTLY* remove extra toolbars in gnumeric? Message-ID: <20130422045136.GA3582@waltdnes.org> The most recent update of gnumeric has done something to the layout, and now I get a couple of additional toolbars at the top of the page. One is font and formatting toolbar, and the other one is an "object" programming toolbar with checkbox/dropdown/radio-button/etc icons. I can click on them and hide them, or go to menu... View ==> Toolbars and turn them off. Even if I save the file, the idiot toolbars come back the next time I turn open the spreadsheet. How do I turn them off permanently? This most recent update of gnumeric also seems to require ghostscript ??? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 06:04:25 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 02:04:25 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: <20130422012332.GA3182-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130422012332.GA3182@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 21 April 2013 21:23, Walter Dnes wrote: > I tried PHDTV3 once... it's underwhelming, to say the least. It's a > garbage antenna with a pre-amp. Amplifying noise gives you more noise. > > http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?slg=en&scy=us&ctn=US2-PHDTV3 > > A better choice is the ChannelMaster CM 4040 > http://overtheair.saveandreplay.com/channel_master_4040_indoor_Antenna.asp The design of the two look quite similar (taking off the Philips' cowling). What makes the CM superior? I'm certainly not against getting a $20 antenna, in fact I'm happy to pay more for something better. The place looks like a good place to go to just talk to some experts. > You can pick up the antenna for $20+tax at their Mississauga store > on Kennedy south of Steeles... *NO NOT THAT* Kennedy+Steeles. The > Kennedy in Missisauga. http://www.saveandreplay.com/localpickup.asp Heh. I lived 25 years in Brampton, I know that Kennedy better than the Scarboro one. In fact the western Steeles @ Kennedy *is* in Brampton, my son's high school was there. The address of Save&Replay is actually much closer to Kennedy & 401. > Still, I guess that's not too bad for an indoor first-floor placement > > against a west-facing wall. I imagine I could do even better outside > > on the 3rd floor balcony, but even that will probably suffice. > > Do you have a south-facing window on the 2nd or 3rd floor? Note, > make sure that it's not covered by a screen. Metal blocks UHF broadcast. > I have no south facing windows, just east or west. I have a terrace with a small southerly exposure on the 3rd floor that would be perfect, I just need to do some cable testing; if one of my houses's internal cables (from the basement to the terrrace) works, attaching an antenna to the south-facing side of the terrace guard fencing would work great even without being up on a pole. And all my window screens are plastic. :-) > - Service providers: Looks like It'll be TekSavvy for cable Internet. > > If it's a standalone house, you probably can't get in excess of 6 megabits > ADSL, probably 5 megabits net. So cable is probably the only way to get > faster speed. Teksavvy cable seems to have more complaints about > outages/slowdowns/congestion/etc than Teksavvy ADSL or FTTN. Check your > address on Bell's website to see if you can get FTTN, which would imply you > can get it via Teksavvy > Bell says I can get FTTN. They want $84/mo for 50/10 (175GB cap) *if* * bundle with TV. Meh. Besides, I have plenty of other reasons to historically hate bell. They've screwed over too many of my friends. So I look at TekSavvy. They offer a maximum of 25/10 ($40) on DSL and 28/1 ($47) on cable. No mention of FTTN. if I look at start.ca, for cable at my address they can offer 45/4 ($60) or 35/3 ($50), and for FTTN they can do 50/10 ($60) (My existing service with Rogers is 45/4 for $97 with a 230GB cap that I frequently exceed) > > - Cable modem: Lifehacker recommends the Motorola SB6141 > > Check on Teksavvy's forum http://www.dslreports.com/forum/teksavvyfor supported DOCSIS 3 modems. And the Motorola above is on that list. If I go with FTTN I'm gonna go with whatever modem the ISP wants to use. Looks like I may need to rent it. > - OTA tuner: SiliconDust HDHomeRun > > * the tuner on my HDHR is weaker than on my TV set. I.e. same antenna > same location... > - plug into TV; it gets the Toronto stations plus majors from Buffalo > - plug into HDHomerun; it only gets the Toronto stations > Would doing it through, say, a Hauppage card cause any less loss of strength? > > - Antenna: I wonder if I can mount something on the side balcony > > without needing to ground it (or put it on a pole. Recommendations > > for makes and models are welcome. especially considering the > > intended mounting. > > I suggest the tabletop CM 4040 behind a south-facing window if at > all possible. It's the quickest/dirtiest/easiest solution. If you need > a roof mounted antenna, spend the money to get a pro to do it. > Maybe consider a rotater while you're at it. > Right now as suggested above, I have two short-term options: - Get the best indoor antenna, pointing south next to a west-facing window - Attach an outdoor antenna to the south-facing guardrail on a 3rd floor terrace. I have an attic that's effectively at a 4th floor level, that may be an option longer term. I prefer not to have a mast-monted antenna because it seems to get very windy in this neighbourhood. > BTW, what major intersection are you nearest to? You can run an analysis > at http://tvfool.com to see what's available. > I tied that but had a hard time reading the results. No matter. Even just CBC, CTV, Global and City, in good shape, may be enough for my needs. Anything decent done by the US networks is usually picked up by them anyway. Thanks SO much for the help. I look forward to at least nominal grovelling by Rogers' retention folks this week. Let's see what they come up with. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 12:24:23 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 08:24:23 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: <20130422012332.GA3182@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <51752BF7.1000701@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Heh. I lived 25 years in Brampton, I know that Kennedy better than the > Scarboro one. > In fact the western Steeles @ Kennedy *is* in Brampton, my son's high > school was there. > The address of Save&Replay is actually much closer to Kennedy & 401. > Tell someone you'll meet them at the corner of Steeles & Finch. Since you know Brampton, you'll know that intersection actually exists. It also proves Brampton is so far from the center of the universe that parallel lines actually meet! ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 12:56:31 2013 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 08:56:31 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: <5173FC1B.1010403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5173FC1B.1010403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5175337F.10103@yaknet.ca> On 13-04-21 10:47 AM, James Knott wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> I found an indoor antenna (a Philips PHDTV3) in my basement, attached >> it to my flatscreen, and picked up: >> >> * CTV, CBC, CBC-F, TVO and Global: crystal clear and in HD (Global >> also has a LD channel :-P ) >> * City, Omni and CTS: usually OK but sometimes cut out >> * Nothing else >> > > A friend of mine lives near Kingston Rd. & Woodbine. She tried one of > those compact amplified antennas on the 2nd floor of her house. She > also had poor results with it. I then loaned her a set top UHF > antenna I bought many years ago, and she now gets many more stations, > including Buffalo than she got with that amplified antenna. > > BTW, I bought that antenna to receive Ch 23 Buffalo, which was then > the 2nd PBS station and not carried on cable. I lived in a 14th floor > apartment in the Port Credit area of Mississauga back then. I could > place that antenna in my living room window and get a better quality > picture than anything on cable. That antenna is a simple double bow > tie with reflector. So, if you want to get better reception, you'd > likely need a decent antenna, as high as you can get it. You may also > want to consider 2 antennas, a UHF for most of the channels, facing > towards Buffalo and a VHF hi facing Hamilton, to get Ch 11. > > -- I live at Winston Churchill and Derry. I have this antennae in my attic and get all the channels available. http://overtheair.saveandreplay.com/OTA_Channels_Toronto_GTA.asp I still have Rogers but have a reduced rate. The OTA is used for special events and I use it through a Digital ATSC HD/SD TV tuner. I plug it directly into my projector for 100' of HD. Go big or go home. I also use the projector for movie nights. We use Rgers for regular TV viewing although I'm not overly happy with them either. A great place for OTA is http://www.saveandreplay.com/ I also have used Canada computers and currently have this antennae http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=164_165&item_id=021143. I'm using Voice Network for home phone (POTs line) and DSL. http://www.voicenetwork.ca/residential/index.php They used to be Yak. Bell keeps trying to get my business back however it will likely never happen. I wish the other ISP's would start carrying TV. Hopefully this will happen in the near future. Good luck. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 14:47:42 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:47:42 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: <20130422012332.GA3182@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130422144741.GA2136@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 02:04:25AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote > The design of the two look quite similar (taking off the Philips' > cowling). What makes the CM superior? I'm just going by my personal experience. Maybe a cardboard box or a milk carton to lift the PHDTV3 several inches off the table will reduce inductance from the surface that it's standing on. The profile would then look similar to the CM 4040. > So I look at TekSavvy. They offer a maximum of 25/10 ($40) on DSL > and 28/1 ($47) on cable. No mention of FTTN. Anything faster than 6 mbits down and 800 kbits up that comes in via your phone line *IS* FTTN, even if it's labelled DSL. Bell must be building out to single detached homes now. I recently upgraded from Teksavvy's "Highspeed DSL 6" to their "Highspeed DSL 7". The 7 megabit service is FTTN. * Highspeed 6 * modem syncs at 6 megabits and speedtest.net shows *NET* a bit over 5 megabits * Highspeed 7 * same modem syncs at 8.51 megabits and speedtest.net shows *NET* a bit over 7 megabits * Notwithstanding the 40% faster download, Highspeed 7 is actually $2 per month *CHEAPER* than Highspeed 6 for the 75 gig tier. Go figure! > (My existing service with Rogers is 45/4 for $97 with a 230GB cap > that I frequently exceed) Teksavvy doesn't count usage between 2AM and 8AM for their limited tiers. I'm not sure if uploads are counted at all. You have a choice of 300 gigs and unlimited tiers at the higher speeds. > > > - Cable modem: Lifehacker recommends the Motorola SB6141 > > > > Check on Teksavvy's forum http://www.dslreports.com/forum/teksavvyfor supported DOCSIS 3 modems. > > > And the Motorola above is on that list. I thought it was the 6121. Maybe they mean the 6121 is the minimum model they'll accept. In any case, for cable, make sure you get a DOCSIS 3 modem. DOCSIS 2 will be deprecated, and not supported, very soon. I don't know about Teksavvy, but I've heard horror stories of Rogers being very sticky about moving modems. E.g. a used modem from an Ottawa customer would not be supported in Toronto, even if it's the same make/model/firmware. Something about specific ranges of serial numbers for a given market. Cable uses DHCP, which works off of the MAC address. DSL and FTTN are based on the physical telephone line for authentication. > If I go with FTTN I'm gonna go with whatever modem the ISP wants > to use. Looks like I may need to rent it. My Thomson ST546 is good for DSL (including FTTN) for downloads up to 24 megabits, and uploads up to 1.2 megabit. I got it back in the fall of 2007 for 5 megabit DSL. It works fine for 7/1 and should be OK all the way up to 15/1. For 15/10, I would need the next step up. My understanding is that Bell does some wierd non-standard stuff at the higher speeds, so you need to rent their specially-tweaked modems. > > * the tuner on my HDHR is weaker than on my TV set. I.e. same antenna > > same location... > > - plug into TV; it gets the Toronto stations plus majors from Buffalo > > - plug into HDHomerun; it only gets the Toronto stations > > > > > Would doing it through, say, a Hauppage card cause any less loss of > strength? I don't know. The only thing I can suggest is reading comparisons at review sites. My model is a few years old, so it may have improved in the meantime. The current ads show a different-looking box than what I have. Speaking of which... the current model, even with 2 tuners, seems to have only one antenna input. Ignore what I said earlier about 2 antenna inputs. That seems to have changed in the current model. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 15:26:28 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 11:26:28 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: <5175337F.10103-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <5173FC1B.1010403@rogers.com> <5175337F.10103@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <20130422152628.GB2136@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 08:56:31AM -0400, John Myshrall wrote > I wish the other ISP's would start carrying TV. Hopefully this will > happen in the near future. There are some like http://vmedia.ca and http://http://zazeen.ca The good news is that they're CRTC-compliant and legal. The bad news is that they're CRTC-compliant and throw in all the usual mandatory pay-TV channels into their "basic" packages. E.g. APTN, MUCH, CBC Newsworld, CP24, Weather Network, TSN, YTV, etc. And I believe you have to subscribe to their internet service as well. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 15:52:55 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 11:52:55 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: <20130422152628.GB2136-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <5173FC1B.1010403@rogers.com> <5175337F.10103@yaknet.ca> <20130422152628.GB2136@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: I've been checking out vmedia as part of my shopping. IPTV isn't just piggybacked onto regular Internet service, though if you buy IPTV from vMedia you *must* buy your Internet pipe from them too. And, as you say, its minimum service includes all the other CRTC mandatory cruft. Given that I can get five local channels with the equivalent of rabbit ears, I think I can do without basic cable or IPTV. Update: Just got off the phone with TekSavvy. They can do 50/10 FTTN to my house for $55 (plus $8 mandatory modem rental) per month. That's half of Rogers , with a higher cap that offers unlimited 2-8am. If I want 24/7 unlimited the cost is $85 -- still cheaper than Rogers with its 230GB cap. Now to call Rogers. Let's see what their retention folks have in store. Can they match this? - Evan On 22 April 2013 11:26, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 08:56:31AM -0400, John Myshrall wrote > > > I wish the other ISP's would start carrying TV. Hopefully this will > > happen in the near future. > > There are some like http://vmedia.ca and http://http://zazeen.ca The > good news is that they're CRTC-compliant and legal. > > The bad news is that they're CRTC-compliant and throw in all the usual > mandatory pay-TV channels into their "basic" packages. E.g. APTN, MUCH, > CBC Newsworld, CP24, Weather Network, TSN, YTV, etc. And I believe you > have to subscribe to their internet service as well. > > -- > Walter Dnes > I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 16:34:51 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:34:51 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: <5173FC1B.1010403@rogers.com> <5175337F.10103@yaknet.ca> <20130422152628.GB2136@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: OK. deed is done. Rogers retention made me an offer - unlimited Extreme Plus (45/4) for $100 but I turned it down. Let's hope TekSavvy does the trick. Because I'm going from cable to DSL, I can actually have them in parallel while I do the transition. I have till May 29 to return my rental boxes to Rogers. BTW -- is the FTTN equipment at the home end a router (with NAT and firewall), or just a modem? - Evan On 22 April 2013 11:52, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I've been checking out vmedia as part of my shopping. IPTV isn't just > piggybacked onto regular Internet service, though if you buy IPTV from > vMedia you *must* buy your Internet pipe from them too. > > And, as you say, its minimum service includes all the other CRTC mandatory > cruft. Given that I can get five local channels with the equivalent of > rabbit ears, I think I can do without basic cable or IPTV. > > Update: Just got off the phone with TekSavvy. They can do 50/10 FTTN to my > house for $55 (plus $8 mandatory modem rental) per month. That's half of > Rogers , with a higher cap that offers unlimited 2-8am. If I want 24/7 > unlimited the cost is $85 -- still cheaper than Rogers with its 230GB cap. > > Now to call Rogers. Let's see what their retention folks have in store. > Can they match this? > > - Evan > > > > > On 22 April 2013 11:26, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 08:56:31AM -0400, John Myshrall wrote >> >> > I wish the other ISP's would start carrying TV. Hopefully this will >> > happen in the near future. >> >> There are some like http://vmedia.ca and http://http://zazeen.ca The >> good news is that they're CRTC-compliant and legal. >> >> The bad news is that they're CRTC-compliant and throw in all the usual >> mandatory pay-TV channels into their "basic" packages. E.g. APTN, MUCH, >> CBC Newsworld, CP24, Weather Network, TSN, YTV, etc. And I believe you >> have to subscribe to their internet service as well. >> >> -- >> Walter Dnes >> I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > Toronto Canada > > Em: evan at telly dot org > Sk: evanleibovitch > Tw: el56 > > -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 17:48:29 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 13:48:29 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: <5173FC1B.1010403@rogers.com> <5175337F.10103@yaknet.ca> <20130422152628.GB2136@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: It's a wireless router with a few Ethernet ports and USB storage capability for DLNA/NAS. If you want to use it with your own router, you can put it into bridged mode (essentially, factory reset, and having your router do the PPPoE bit). It's not the world's greatest wireless router, but it does NAT and firewalling. My biggest concern about the Sagemcom units is their very weedy power supplies, which are just barely specced for the power the thing draws. Cheers Stewart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 19:28:42 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 15:28:42 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: <51752BF7.1000701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130422012332.GA3182@waltdnes.org> <51752BF7.1000701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130422192842.GM21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 08:24:23AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Tell someone you'll meet them at the corner of Steeles & Finch. > Since you know Brampton, you'll know that intersection actually > exists. It also proves Brampton is so far from the center of the > universe that parallel lines actually meet! ;-) Or to be really nice, Dundas and Bloor. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 19:32:17 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 15:32:17 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: References: <5173FC1B.1010403@rogers.com> <5175337F.10103@yaknet.ca> <20130422152628.GB2136@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130422193217.GN21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 12:34:51PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > OK. deed is done. Rogers retention made me an offer - unlimited Extreme > Plus (45/4) for $100 but I turned it down. Let's hope TekSavvy does the > trick. Because I'm going from cable to DSL, I can actually have them in > parallel while I do the transition. I have till May 29 to return my rental > boxes to Rogers. > > BTW -- is the FTTN equipment at the home end a router (with NAT and > firewall), or just a modem? It is a router/wifi AP/TV coax provider. But at least with the cellpipe model you can run it in bridged mode and use a real router and turn the other crap off. I would hope the sagecom is the same. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 21:00:16 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 17:00:16 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: <20130422192842.GM21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130422012332.GA3182@waltdnes.org> <51752BF7.1000701@rogers.com> <20130422192842.GM21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <5175A4DF.5090008@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 08:24:23AM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> >Tell someone you'll meet them at the corner of Steeles & Finch. >> >Since you know Brampton, you'll know that intersection actually >> >exists. It also proves Brampton is so far from the center of the >> >universe that parallel lines actually meet!;-) > Or to be really nice, Dundas and Bloor. Twice. ;-) BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was an intersection at Michael and Michael. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 21:09:02 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 17:09:02 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: <5175A4DF.5090008-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130422012332.GA3182@waltdnes.org> <51752BF7.1000701@rogers.com> <20130422192842.GM21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <5175A4DF.5090008@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130422210902.GO21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 05:00:16PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Twice. ;-) > > BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was > an intersection at Michael and Michael. The best one I know, is Weber and King in Waterloo/Kithener. Weber starts and ends and king street, and cross it in the middle. So there are 3 intersections of those two streets in about 14km. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 21:11:57 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 17:11:57 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail Release Parties on Thursday, 25 April 2013 Message-ID: <5175A79D.1070706@sobac.com> Hi Everybodeee! This is the week of the Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail release, and so there are Release Parties: ===== The KW chapter of Ubuntu Canada is having a release party on Thursday, 25 April 2013 at 7:00pm at the Kwartzlab Makerspace. There's an IRC meeting from 7:00pm to 8:00pm; the Kwartzlab Radio team will be recording a podcast at 8:30pm; and there will be a live installation demonstration on a fancy new Lenovo laptop with UEFI and SecureBoot. And, of course, there will be cake, deviled eggs, and we may order out for pizza? What: KW Raring Ringtail Release Party When: Thursday, 25 April 2013 7:00pm ? 10:00pm EDT Where: Kwartzlab, 33 Kent Avenue, Kitchener, Ontario (map: http://osm.org/go/ZXnwY4Db?m ) Online: #ubuntu-ca on Freenode IRC Registration: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ca/2325-kw-raring-ringtail-release-party/ (Registration is optional, but appreciated) ===== There is also a Toronto Raring Ringtail Release Party. Join Michael Kaulbach for a bottomless cup of coffee and free Ubuntu cupcakes! What: Toronto Raring Ringtail Release Party When: Thursday, 25 April 2013 8:00pm ? 11:00pm EDT Where: Alio Lounge, 108 Dundas Street West, Toronto, Ontario (map: http://osm.org/go/ZX6BtMDec--?m ) Online: #ubuntu-ca on Freenode IRC Registration: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ca/2353-toronto-raring-ringtail-release-party/ (Registration is optional, but appreciated) ===== And there are rumours afoot of a Raring Ringtail Release Party in Guelph a bit later in the week. More details forthcoming as I unearth them?. If anyone knows of other release parties, please let me know and I'll add them to the list. --Bob. -- Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 21:17:55 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 17:17:55 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey Message-ID: My son has a formidable bill with bell due to youthful stupidity. I spoke to bell and said they have three choices 1) he declares bankruptcy and they get 0 2) he does a consumer debt proposal and they get 50% 3) we negotiate where he pays what he owes them and they cancel the contract He owes around 2k, his cancellation fees are 2k (yes he has 4 phones, don't ask) First off you can't find one person that can deal with this, you have to talk to A/R for negotiating payment, then retention to discuss cancellation. In the end they won't discuss it at all. Any constructive advice would be helpful Dave Cramer On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 05:00:16PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > Twice. ;-) > > > > BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was > > an intersection at Michael and Michael. > > The best one I know, is Weber and King in Waterloo/Kithener. Weber starts > and ends and king street, and cross it in the middle. So there are 3 > intersections of those two streets in about 14km. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 21:24:07 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 17:24:07 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> Here's something I got from this list a while ago. I don't recall who originally posted it, but thank you! It's proved helpful for a friend who had some billing trouble himself. > If your provider is screwing you over, I suggest contacting the CCTS. > Though my provider swore up-and-down there was no way I could get a > refund, a short while after filing an official complaint they refunded > the extra month's charge: > > https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/complaints/complaint-form --Bob. On 13-04-22 05:17 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > My son has a formidable bill with bell due to youthful stupidity. > > I spoke to bell and said they have three choices > > 1) he declares bankruptcy and they get 0 > 2) he does a consumer debt proposal and they get 50% > 3) we negotiate where he pays what he owes them and they cancel the contract > > He owes around 2k, his cancellation fees are 2k (yes he has 4 phones, don't > ask) > > First off you can't find one person that can deal with this, you have to > talk to A/R for negotiating payment, then retention to discuss cancellation. > > In the end they won't discuss it at all. Any constructive advice would be > helpful > > Dave Cramer > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen < > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 05:00:16PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> Twice. ;-) >>> >>> BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was >>> an intersection at Michael and Michael. >> >> The best one I know, is Weber and King in Waterloo/Kithener. Weber starts >> and ends and king street, and cross it in the middle. So there are 3 >> intersections of those two streets in about 14km. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 21:32:25 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 17:32:25 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: <5175AA77.6040207-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> Message-ID: Hmmm, I'm not sure they did anything wrong at this point, I just think it's an unreasonable stance on their part. They can have everything he owes them right now, or nothing. Seems to be a no brainer to me, but what do I know. On a related note, I heard that someone in a similar situation went into CIBC, they owed 10k on a visa, offered the bank 2500 and the bank took it. They also are on the verge of bankruptcy. However they will have an R9 credit rating which is treated exactly the same as a bankruptcy so I question why bother paying them anything, just declare bankruptcy Dave Cramer On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > Here's something I got from this list a while ago. I don't recall who > originally posted it, but thank you! It's proved helpful for a friend > who had some billing trouble himself. > > > If your provider is screwing you over, I suggest contacting the CCTS. > > Though my provider swore up-and-down there was no way I could get a > > refund, a short while after filing an official complaint they refunded > > the extra month's charge: > > > > https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/complaints/complaint-form > > --Bob. > > > > > On 13-04-22 05:17 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > > My son has a formidable bill with bell due to youthful stupidity. > > > > I spoke to bell and said they have three choices > > > > 1) he declares bankruptcy and they get 0 > > 2) he does a consumer debt proposal and they get 50% > > 3) we negotiate where he pays what he owes them and they cancel the > contract > > > > He owes around 2k, his cancellation fees are 2k (yes he has 4 phones, > don't > > ask) > > > > First off you can't find one person that can deal with this, you have to > > talk to A/R for negotiating payment, then retention to discuss > cancellation. > > > > In the end they won't discuss it at all. Any constructive advice would be > > helpful > > > > Dave Cramer > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen < > > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 05:00:16PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >>> Twice. ;-) > >>> > >>> BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was > >>> an intersection at Michael and Michael. > >> > >> The best one I know, is Weber and King in Waterloo/Kithener. Weber > starts > >> and ends and king street, and cross it in the middle. So there are 3 > >> intersections of those two streets in about 14km. > >> > >> -- > >> Len Sorensen > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 23:28:00 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 19:28:00 -0400 Subject: CVS to Git migration Message-ID: Evening guys, I am wondering if anyone here has migrated CVS repositories to git. I did a bit of research and the best method seems to be to run cvs2git against the current repository. That generate a file, which git can play and set up a git repositories. Now, when I run cvs2git, it fails with the error below. I have not figured whats causing it even after a serious googling. Anyone can see what I may be missing? cvs2git --options=/home/williamm/cvs2git.options ----- pass 1 (CollectRevsPass) ----- Examining all CVS ',v' files... /usr/local/cvs-repository/.classpath,v .... .... /usr/local/cvs-repository/.metadata/.plugins/org.eclipse.core.resources/.root/.indexes/properties.version,v /usr/local/cvs-repository/.metadata/.plugins/org.eclipse.core.resources/.safetable/org.eclipse.core.resources,v Exception occurred while parsing /usr/local/cvs-repository/.metadata/.plugins/org.eclipse.core.resources/.safetable/org.eclipse.core.resources,v ERROR: The command 'cvs -q -f -d /usr/local/cvs-repository co -r1.1 -p .metadata/.plugins/org.eclipse.core.resources/.safetable/org.eclipse.core.resources' failed with exit status=0 and the following output: cvs checkout: internal error: unsupported substitution string -ku What would "unsupported substitution" be implying? I guess my problem is not decoding the error message. Any pointer would be highly appreciated. William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 22 23:41:50 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 19:41:50 -0400 Subject: CVS to Git migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130422234150.GA357@watson-wilson.ca> I did a CVS to SVN conversion years ago. If I were to do it again using Git or any other RCS I would not convert. The conversion process can leave you uncertain about the integrity of converted history. Instead, I would retire CVS as an archive and start new with Git. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 06:48:38 2013 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 07:48:38 +0100 Subject: CVS to Git migration In-Reply-To: <20130422234150.GA357-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130422234150.GA357@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: You could also import the cvs history to git with the initial import. Tag that import as cvs-orig or something and then in a second commit, wrote out the cvs meta data. I've never used cvs2git but if you send this query to the git mailing list I'm sure you'll find a workable (less ugly) solution. The list is quite open and friendly. Hth. -Ben On Apr 23, 2013 12:42 AM, "Neil Watson" wrote: > I did a CVS to SVN conversion years ago. If I were to do it again using > Git or any other RCS I would not convert. The conversion process can > leave you uncertain about the integrity of converted history. Instead, I > would retire CVS as an archive and start new with Git. > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 06:53:08 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 02:53:08 -0400 Subject: CentOS NFS problem -- 30 seconds delay for "cat file" Message-ID: <20130423065308.GA1915@node1.localdomain> Hi, I have problem with CentOS NFS. I can mount NFS, and "cd" and "ls" work as expected. But, "cat" takes 30 second delay. Has anyone encountered this 30 second delay? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 07:52:49 2013 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 08:52:49 +0100 Subject: CentOS NFS problem -- 30 seconds delay for "cat file" In-Reply-To: <20130423065308.GA1915-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130423065308.GA1915@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: No. There are some nfs debugging utilities available and wireshark could help you too. I think even strace with time stamps would be interesting here...you want to see which system calls are slow. Are you running with default parameters or have you tuned it somewhat already? Thanks -Ben On Apr 23, 2013 7:53 AM, "William Park" wrote: > Hi, > > I have problem with CentOS NFS. I can mount NFS, and "cd" and "ls" work > as expected. But, "cat" takes 30 second delay. Has anyone encountered > this 30 second delay? > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 10:30:22 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 06:30:22 -0400 Subject: CentOS NFS problem -- 30 seconds delay for "cat file" In-Reply-To: <20130423065308.GA1915-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130423065308.GA1915@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130423103022.GA14285@watson-wilson.ca> Are the NFS support programs, e.g. portmap and lockd, running? -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 14:58:56 2013 From: el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 10:58:56 -0400 Subject: CVS to Git migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My group at work did a large cvs2git conversion. Luckily for us, *every* CVS checkin was commented in a structured, disciplined way that allowed us to make modifications to cvs2git to collect multiple cvs checkins (not just by date/time) into a single commit. Without such measures, it may be that your git history will be too noisy for practical use. You may be best served by: 1. Keeping your CVS database available for reference 2. Keeping a cvs2git importation isolated for historical reference, where useful. 3. Starting a git repository afresh (as mentioned) with your latest sources. Cheers, Mike On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 7:28 PM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Evening guys, > > I am wondering if anyone here has migrated CVS repositories to git. I did > a bit of research and the best method seems to be to run cvs2git against > the current repository. That generate a file, which git can play and set up > a git repositories. > > Now, when I run cvs2git, it fails with the error below. I have not figured > whats causing it even after a serious googling. Anyone can see what I may > be missing? > > cvs2git --options=/home/williamm/cvs2git.options > ----- pass 1 (CollectRevsPass) ----- > Examining all CVS ',v' files... > /usr/local/cvs-repository/.classpath,v > .... > .... > > /usr/local/cvs-repository/.metadata/.plugins/org.eclipse.core.resources/.root/.indexes/properties.version,v > > /usr/local/cvs-repository/.metadata/.plugins/org.eclipse.core.resources/.safetable/org.eclipse.core.resources,v > Exception occurred while parsing > /usr/local/cvs-repository/.metadata/.plugins/org.eclipse.core.resources/.safetable/org.eclipse.core.resources,v > ERROR: The command 'cvs -q -f -d /usr/local/cvs-repository co -r1.1 -p > .metadata/.plugins/org.eclipse.core.resources/.safetable/org.eclipse.core.resources' > failed with exit status=0 > and the following output: > cvs checkout: internal error: unsupported substitution string -ku > > What would "unsupported substitution" be implying? I guess my problem is > not decoding the error message. > > Any pointer would be highly appreciated. > > William > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 15:31:20 2013 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 01:31:20 +1000 Subject: CVS to Git migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1366731080.13118.1.camel@turminder-xuss.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> On Mon, 2013-04-22 at 19:28 -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > I am wondering if anyone here has migrated CVS repositories to git. You might try going through Subversion. The migration tools for CVS to Subversion are quite robust, and in turn from svn to git are solid. Might be able to rescue your metadata that route. AfC Sydney -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 16:35:01 2013 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:35:01 -0400 Subject: CVS to Git migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5176B835.5090009@ve3syb.ca> On 13-04-22 07:28 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > I am wondering if anyone here has migrated CVS repositories to git. I did a > bit of research and the best method seems to be to run cvs2git against the > current repository. That generate a file, which git can play and set up a > git repositories. [snip] > /usr/local/cvs-repository/.metadata/.plugins/org.eclipse.core.resources/.safetable/org.eclipse.core.resources,v > Exception occurred while parsing > /usr/local/cvs-repository/.metadata/.plugins/org.eclipse.core.resources/.safetable/org.eclipse.core.resources,v > ERROR: The command 'cvs -q -f -d /usr/local/cvs-repository co -r1.1 -p > .metadata/.plugins/org.eclipse.core.resources/.safetable/org.eclipse.core.resources' > failed with exit status=0 > and the following output: > cvs checkout: internal error: unsupported substitution string -ku > > What would "unsupported substitution" be implying? The conversion process seems to have hit a problem dealing with RCS keywords that you (may) have in the file. What version of CVS do you have installed? The error message is saying that CVS doesn't recognize the "u" option to "-k". -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 16:38:16 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:38:16 -0400 Subject: CentOS NFS problem -- 30 seconds delay for "cat file" In-Reply-To: <20130423103022.GA14285-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130423065308.GA1915@node1.localdomain> <20130423103022.GA14285@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20130423163816.GA2749@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 06:30:22AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > Are the NFS support programs, e.g. portmap and lockd, running? On server side, yes. The server is Slackware-14 (64bit), and client is CentOS-6.4 (32bit). "cd" and "ls" are immediate, but "cat" has 30 seconds delay before I can see it. Just weird. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 20:11:14 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 16:11:14 -0400 Subject: Soup Alternatives Message-ID: We were puzzling over possibilities that might be preferable to Salad King for pre-meeting dining, and, as the set of possibilities seemed not quite sufficient, it seemed like a good idea to draw ideas from a somewhat broader audience. The difficulty that was observed was that the room was rather noisy, but it wouldn't do to jump to something else and leap from bad to worse, hence here's a set of constraints that seem needful: a) Needs to be "near enough" to the meeting, basically within a 15 minute walk. (Think about how far Pho88 was from the U(T) engineering building...) b) Not too expensive (Barberian's is doubtless good, but they haven't got an entree below $25!) c) Quiet enough d) Open until 7:30 (it appears there are restaurants targeting lunch crowd that will be closed for dinner) e) Reasonable range of food that notably has offerings to vegetarians better than "oh, there's a slice of tomato on the burger" f) Can cope with 20 people arriving in a bit of a disorganized flurry, without massive formal reservation The only thing leaping to mind was the Pickle Barrel @ Atrium, which wasn't exciting the group too much. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 21:07:06 2013 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 17:07:06 -0400 Subject: Sound cards free to good home Message-ID: <20130423210706.GB5064@watson-wilson.ca> Free to good home: 1. Creative Xonar hdav1.3 2. Creative X-Fi (model SB0880) -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 23:25:22 2013 From: jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Mcintosh) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 16:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> Message-ID: <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I talked to a local company. ? Declaring bankruptcy costs nearly $3,000. ? James E. McIntosh jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org ? ?From: Dave Cramer To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:32:25 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey Hmmm, I'm not sure they did anything wrong at this point, I just think it's an unreasonable stance on their part. They can have everything he owes them right now, or nothing. Seems to be a no brainer to me, but what do I know. On a related note, I heard that someone in a similar situation went into CIBC, they owed 10k on a visa, offered the bank 2500 and the bank took it.? They also are on the verge of bankruptcy. However they will have an R9 credit rating which is treated exactly the same as a bankruptcy? so I question why bother paying them anything, just declare bankruptcy Dave Cramer On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: Here's something I got from this list a while ago. ?I don't recall who >originally posted it, but thank you! It's proved helpful for a friend >who had some billing trouble himself. > >> ? ?If your provider is screwing you over, I suggest contacting the CCTS. >> ? ?Though my provider swore up-and-down there was no way I could get a >> ? ?refund, a short while after filing an official complaint they refunded >> ? ?the extra month's charge: >> >> ? ?https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/complaints/complaint-form > >--Bob. > > > > > >On 13-04-22 05:17 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: >> My son has a formidable bill with bell due to youthful stupidity. >> >> I spoke to bell and said they have three choices >> >> 1) he declares bankruptcy and they get 0 >> 2) he does a consumer debt proposal and they get 50% >> 3) we negotiate where he pays what he owes them and they cancel the contract >> >> He owes around 2k, his cancellation fees are 2k (yes he has 4 phones, don't >> ask) >> >> First off you can't find one person that can deal with this, you have to >> talk to A/R for negotiating payment, then retention to discuss cancellation. >> >> In the end they won't discuss it at all. Any constructive advice would be >> helpful >> >> Dave Cramer >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen < >> lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 05:00:16PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>>> Twice. ?;-) >>>> >>>> BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was >>>> an intersection at Michael and Michael. >>> >>> The best one I know, is Weber and King in Waterloo/Kithener. ?Weber starts >>> and ends and king street, and cross it in the middle. ?So there are 3 >>> intersections of those two streets in about 14km. >>> >>> -- >>> Len Sorensen >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 23:36:56 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:36:56 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac Message-ID: So I finally convinced my boss that our family needed a "family" computer and that the best choice for a variety of reasons is a new iMac :-) It is awesome. Besides being ten times faster than what I've been used to it is so easy to use though some things take too many mouse clicks. I have been using Linux for about ten years so there are some weird things to get used to like installing apps and so on (no more package manager) but overall it had been really nice. I was happy to see a lot of free software is available for Mac same as on Linux, especially Transmission and Gimp. I saw that there are even package managers for Mac to install these apps, namely Fink and MacPorts. Anyone have any experience with these on Mountain Lion? I am still so new with the Mac I suppose I have a greater fear of making a mess of it. Any free software tips or tricks for Mac appreciated :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 23:46:52 2013 From: ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Ian Garmaise) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:46:52 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo-WXK5sLB/SxgR8UyDmTZ/NZEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: James, have you considered contacting the consumer advocate/ombudsman at the Toronto Star? Ian On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:25 PM, James Mcintosh wrote: > I talked to a local company. > > Declaring bankruptcy costs nearly $3,000. > > James E. McIntosh > jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > *From:* Dave Cramer > *To:* tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > *Sent:* Monday, April 22, 2013 5:32:25 PM > *Subject:* Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey > > Hmmm, I'm not sure they did anything wrong at this point, I just think > it's an unreasonable stance on their part. They can have everything he owes > them right now, or nothing. Seems to be a no brainer to me, but what do I > know. > > On a related note, I heard that someone in a similar situation went into > CIBC, they owed 10k on a visa, offered the bank 2500 and the bank took it. > They also are on the verge of bankruptcy. However they will have an R9 > credit rating which is treated exactly the same as a bankruptcy > so I question why bother paying them anything, just declare bankruptcy > > Dave Cramer > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > > Here's something I got from this list a while ago. I don't recall who > originally posted it, but thank you! It's proved helpful for a friend > who had some billing trouble himself. > > > If your provider is screwing you over, I suggest contacting the CCTS. > > Though my provider swore up-and-down there was no way I could get a > > refund, a short while after filing an official complaint they refunded > > the extra month's charge: > > > > https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/complaints/complaint-form > > --Bob. > > > > > On 13-04-22 05:17 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > > My son has a formidable bill with bell due to youthful stupidity. > > > > I spoke to bell and said they have three choices > > > > 1) he declares bankruptcy and they get 0 > > 2) he does a consumer debt proposal and they get 50% > > 3) we negotiate where he pays what he owes them and they cancel the > contract > > > > He owes around 2k, his cancellation fees are 2k (yes he has 4 phones, > don't > > ask) > > > > First off you can't find one person that can deal with this, you have to > > talk to A/R for negotiating payment, then retention to discuss > cancellation. > > > > In the end they won't discuss it at all. Any constructive advice would be > > helpful > > > > Dave Cramer > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen < > > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 05:00:16PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >>> Twice. ;-) > >>> > >>> BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was > >>> an intersection at Michael and Michael. > >> > >> The best one I know, is Weber and King in Waterloo/Kithener. Weber > starts > >> and ends and king street, and cross it in the middle. So there are 3 > >> intersections of those two streets in about 14km. > >> > >> -- > >> Len Sorensen > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> > > > > > > > -- ===== Ian Garmaise Consultant Phorix Solutions Group Inc. ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Skype: iantor Toronto: 416.432.2251 NYC: 917.512.9535 http://www.PhorixSol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 23 23:54:17 2013 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 16:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How do I *PERMANENTLY* remove extra toolbars in gnumeric? In-Reply-To: <20130422045136.GA3582-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130422045136.GA3582@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1366761257.48166.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Walter, You can edit the gnumeric config file directly. Check the directory ?~/.gconf/apps/gnumeric/core/gui/toolbars and edit the %conf.xml file in there. I am sure one you get there you know what to do :-) HTH Equbay --- On Mon, 4/22/13, Walter Dnes wrote: From: Walter Dnes Subject: [TLUG]: How do I *PERMANENTLY* remove extra toolbars in gnumeric? To: "Toronto Linux Users Group" Received: Monday, April 22, 2013, 12:51 AM ? The most recent update of gnumeric has done something to the layout, and now I get a couple of additional toolbars at the top of the page. One is font and formatting toolbar, and the other one is an "object" programming toolbar with checkbox/dropdown/radio-button/etc icons.? I can click on them and hide them, or go to menu... ? View ==> Toolbars and turn them off.? Even if I save the file, the idiot toolbars come back the next time I turn open the spreadsheet.? How do I turn them off permanently? ? This most recent update of gnumeric also seems to require ghostscript ??? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 00:37:33 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 20:37:33 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use a mac for my desktop as well. You seem to have found your way around. There are some rather not nice things. 1) Just this morning my computer failed to start after shutdown. You have to unplug it and wait a while, or remove the memory. Make sure you have a backup machine to search for the solution to these problems 2) If you replace the hard drive, which I just did you have to 1) pay apple to do it, or 2) buy a special cable and a regular HD and very carefully do it yourself, 3) buy software to control the fan speed and very carefully do it yourself. Oh, almost forgot do yourself a huge favour and find a way to run time machine, when the hard drive in question failed I was able to completely restore my machine; albeit in 20 hours. This feature alone is worth a huge amount of time I use a drobo which I wouldn't recommend as it's flaky, but I've already got 600 bucks into it, so I'm not about to toss it. Candidly I think apple has seen it's best days, but I'll still use it for a couple more product cycles Dave Cramer On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > So I finally convinced my boss that our family needed a "family" computer > and that the best choice for a variety of reasons is a new iMac :-) > > It is awesome. Besides being ten times faster than what I've been used to > it is so easy to use though some things take too many mouse clicks. I have > been using Linux for about ten years so there are some weird things to get > used to like installing apps and so on (no more package manager) but > overall it had been really nice. > > I was happy to see a lot of free software is available for Mac same as on > Linux, especially Transmission and Gimp. I saw that there are even package > managers for Mac to install these apps, namely Fink and MacPorts. > > Anyone have any experience with these on Mountain Lion? I am still so new > with the Mac I suppose I have a greater fear of making a mess of it. > > Any free software tips or tricks for Mac appreciated :-) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 00:47:08 2013 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos Weatherill) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 20:47:08 -0400 Subject: Sound cards free to good home In-Reply-To: <20130423210706.GB5064-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20130423210706.GB5064@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Hello Neil, I'd be interested in one or both of them, if you still have them. Please cont me at right.maple.nut-Re5JQEeQqe9fmgfxC/sS/w at public.gmane.org Cheers, Amos On 23 April 2013 17:07, Neil Watson wrote: > Free to good home: > > 1. Creative Xonar hdav1.3 > 2. Creative X-Fi (model SB0880) > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 02:20:35 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 22:20:35 -0400 Subject: Soup Alternatives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > We were puzzling over possibilities that might be preferable to Salad King > for pre-meeting dining, and, as the set of possibilities seemed not quite > sufficient, it seemed like a good idea to draw ideas from a somewhat broader > audience. > > The difficulty that was observed was that the room was rather noisy, but it > wouldn't do to jump to something else and leap from bad to worse, hence > here's a set of constraints that seem needful: > > a) Needs to be "near enough" to the meeting, basically within a 15 minute > walk. (Think about how far Pho88 was from the U(T) engineering building...) > > b) Not too expensive (Barberian's is doubtless good, but they haven't got an > entree below $25!) > > c) Quiet enough > > d) Open until 7:30 (it appears there are restaurants targeting lunch crowd > that will be closed for dinner) > > e) Reasonable range of food that notably has offerings to vegetarians better > than "oh, there's a slice of tomato on the burger" > > f) Can cope with 20 people arriving in a bit of a disorganized flurry, > without massive formal reservation > > The only thing leaping to mind was the Pickle Barrel @ Atrium, which wasn't > exciting the group too much. This afternoon I attended a downtown talk by Oracle about their new T and M series SPARC computers (not a good talk but for reasons outside Oracle's control, two fire alarms during the talk). After I had a walk around Yonge & Dundas looking at possible "Salad King" alternatives.... I would add a point to the above list: g) Must be "family" friendly. With the above in mind here are the places I looked at briefly this evening and my take on them: Discards: - Milestones - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 4th floor - very limited number of under $15 menu items. - Jack Astor's - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 4th floor - very limited number of under $15 menu items. - Johnny Rockets - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas off Dundas, Ground floor - Very little for the vegetarians - Five Guys Burgers - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas, off Yonge, Ground floor - Vegetarian hostile - Chipotle Mexican Grill - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas, off Yonge, Ground floor - Very limited menu - Zanzibar - Yonge just north of Gould east side - Has "Adult" entertainment, enough said. - Made in China - Yonge just north of Gould east side - Dining room seemed too small - Korean Grill House - Yonge just north of Gould east side - Dining room seemed too small - St. Louis Bar and Grill - Atrium on Bay N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Sporting event on and place was PACKED. Worth further review: - Tim Hortons - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas Ground floor (entrance off Victoria) - Basic, reliable - Food court - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 3rd floor - Good range of inexpensive food, didn't seem that crowded about 7 PM - Panera Bread - N/W corner Yonge & Edward. - Sandwiches, soup, & pasta. Has 2nd floor eating area - Pickle Barrel - Atrium on Bay - N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Good all round spot - Hard Rock Cafe - On Yonge, just south of Dundas Square - Touristy but otherwise has possibilities - Swiss Chalet - Yonge just north of Gould west side - Basic, reliable - Spring Sushi - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 5th floor - Didn't see dining room, but menu looks interesting - Spring Roll - Atrium on Bay N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Seemed a bit busy but has possibilities. Based on what I saw the most tempting three seemed to be Pickle Barrel, Swiss Chalet and Panera Bread. Other thoughts? Colin McGregor > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 02:37:02 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 22:37:02 -0400 Subject: How do I *PERMANENTLY* remove extra toolbars in gnumeric? In-Reply-To: <1366761257.48166.YahooMailClassic-/W4/QBBOCLJal3a5i+KC+JEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20130422045136.GA3582@waltdnes.org> <1366761257.48166.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20130424023702.GA5181@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 04:54:17PM -0700, E K wrote > > Walter, > You can edit the gnumeric config file directly. Check the directory > ~/.gconf/apps/gnumeric/core/gui/toolbars and edit the %conf.xml > file in there. I am sure one you get there you know what to do :-) No such animal. Google searching ran into "gsettings". I tried issuing the command... gsettings sltdnes][~] et org.gnome.gnumeric.core.gui.toolbars longformat-visible false ...but it comes back with... GLib-GIO-Message: Using the 'memory' GSettings backend. Your settings will not be saved or shared with other applications. ...which renders the settings pointless. Now what? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 02:52:02 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 22:52:02 -0400 Subject: CentOS NFS problem -- 30 seconds delay for "cat file" In-Reply-To: <5176E8C4.7060506-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20130423065308.GA1915@node1.localdomain> <20130423103022.GA14285@watson-wilson.ca> <20130423163816.GA2749@node1.localdomain> <5176E8C4.7060506@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20130424025202.GA4265@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 04:02:12PM -0400, David Collier-Brown wrote: > On 04/23/2013 12:38 PM, William Park wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 06:30:22AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > >> Are the NFS support programs, e.g. portmap and lockd, running? > > On server side, yes. The server is Slackware-14 (64bit), and client is > > CentOS-6.4 (32bit). > > > > "cd" and "ls" are immediate, but "cat" has 30 seconds delay before I can > > see it. Just weird. > > The suggestion to use strace is probably the key: strace nfs to find out > what fd is being used for the link to the client, then look at reads and > writes on that fd. This assumes that nfsd is a merely privileged > process, though, and not one of the strange kernel-ey things we used to > have on Solaris (;-)) Well, my NFS server is kernel modules (kernel-3.3.8, the latest): nfsd 239080 11 exportfs 3674 1 nfsd auth_rpcgss 32160 1 nfsd nfs_acl 2319 1 nfsd lockd 64196 1 nfsd sunrpc 187518 35 nfsd,auth_rpcgss,lockd,nfs_acl and user daemons are 3792 /sbin/rpc.portmap 3796 /sbin/rpc.statd 3814 /usr/sbin/rpc.rquotad 3828 /usr/sbin/rpc.mountd I didn't see any activity from "strace -p 3792 -p 3796 -p 3814 -p 3828". But, "dmesg" says NFSD: Unable to create client record on stable storage: -110 I'm pretty sure it's CentOS issue. Because I installed 32bit Slackware-14 on the client (the server is 64bit Slackware-14), and "cat" works as expected. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 03:17:18 2013 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 20:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CentOS NFS problem -- 30 seconds delay for "cat file" In-Reply-To: <20130423163816.GA2749-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130423065308.GA1915@node1.localdomain> <20130423103022.GA14285@watson-wilson.ca> <20130423163816.GA2749@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <1366773438.86169.YahooMailNeo@web140601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> "cd" and "ls" are immediate, but "cat" has 30 seconds delay before I can see it.? Just weird. William,? Can we please see some strace output on the client side when you try to use cat to access a file on an NFS share? Please iuse the "-T" option for strace to get the time spent in system calls. Thanks,? -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 04:01:04 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 00:01:04 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51775900.5060103@gmail.com> On 13-04-23 07:36 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > > I was happy to see a lot of free software is available for Mac same as > on Linux, especially Transmission and Gimp. I saw that there are even > package managers for Mac to install these apps, namely Fink and MacPorts. > > Anyone have any experience with these on Mountain Lion? I am still so > new with the Mac I suppose I have a greater fear of making a mess of it. Fink is a little old; my last experience was that it was like running a slightly stale Debian Stable. What was there, worked, though. MacPorts requires you to build everything from source and do large-scale source tree syncs. That might float your boat. It sank mine. ?Teh nu h0tne5s? is brew; http://brew.sh/. While it's source based, too, it has some very up to date packages and a simple build and dependency system, which mostly works. It will cause most folks here screaming habdabs as it expects you to make all of /usr/local world-writeable. If you need to build stuff, register as an Apple developer, then download the (colossal) XCode dev system. It includes a full GCC command line build system. Pretty much anything (up to a point ...) that uses autoconf or traditional Makefiles will just build. Look for it in the App Store. Curiously enough, in the last couple of weeks, I've switched back to Linux after using Macs as my primary desktops since 2005 ... Very little pain so far, except for iPhone support (grumble). cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 12:19:08 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 08:19:08 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 8:37 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I use a mac for my desktop as well. You seem to have found your way > around. There are some rather not nice things. > > 1) Just this morning my computer failed to start after shutdown. You have > to unplug it and wait a while, or remove the memory. Make sure you have a > backup machine to search for the solution to these problems > 2) If you replace the hard drive, which I just did you have to 1) pay > apple to do it, or 2) buy a special cable and a regular HD and very > carefully do it yourself, 3) buy software to control the fan speed and very > carefully do it yourself. > I will probably never want to do that, I don't even think I could. The newest iMacs are like permanently sealed or something. Not worried, we have Apple Care :-) > > Oh, almost forgot do yourself a huge favour and find a way to run time > machine, when the hard drive in question failed I was able to completely > restore my machine; albeit in 20 hours. This feature alone is worth a huge > amount of time > Someone showed me Time Machine, it looks pretty cool. Will definitely be setting that up. I've got a 1TB external with eSATA connection. Apparently I have to invest in a Thunderbolt to eSATA adapter which is NOT CHEAP. Oh well, it will be very handy I am sure. Another cool thing is I have a 27" display that I also want to connect and have dual displays :-) > I use a drobo which I wouldn't recommend as it's flaky, but I've already > got 600 bucks into it, so I'm not about to toss it. > > Candidly I think apple has seen it's best days, but I'll still use it for > a couple more product cycles > > Dave Cramer > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Thomas Milne < > thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> So I finally convinced my boss that our family needed a "family" computer >> and that the best choice for a variety of reasons is a new iMac :-) >> >> It is awesome. Besides being ten times faster than what I've been used to >> it is so easy to use though some things take too many mouse clicks. I have >> been using Linux for about ten years so there are some weird things to get >> used to like installing apps and so on (no more package manager) but >> overall it had been really nice. >> >> I was happy to see a lot of free software is available for Mac same as on >> Linux, especially Transmission and Gimp. I saw that there are even package >> managers for Mac to install these apps, namely Fink and MacPorts. >> >> Anyone have any experience with these on Mountain Lion? I am still so new >> with the Mac I suppose I have a greater fear of making a mess of it. >> >> Any free software tips or tricks for Mac appreciated :-) >> > > -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 12:23:00 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 08:23:00 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: <51775900.5060103-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51775900.5060103@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 12:01 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 13-04-23 07:36 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > > > > I was happy to see a lot of free software is available for Mac same as > > on Linux, especially Transmission and Gimp. I saw that there are even > > package managers for Mac to install these apps, namely Fink and MacPorts. > > > > Anyone have any experience with these on Mountain Lion? I am still so > > new with the Mac I suppose I have a greater fear of making a mess of it. > > Fink is a little old; my last experience was that it was like running a > slightly stale Debian Stable. What was there, worked, though. > > MacPorts requires you to build everything from source and do large-scale > source tree syncs. That might float your boat. It sank mine. > > ?Teh nu h0tne5s? is brew; http://brew.sh/. While it's source based, too, > it has some very up to date packages and a simple build and dependency > system, which mostly works. It will cause most folks here screaming > habdabs as it expects you to make all of /usr/local world-writeable. > Ha, that looks really cool. Thanks for the tip :-) > > If you need to build stuff, register as an Apple developer, then > download the (colossal) XCode dev system. It includes a full GCC command > line build system. Pretty much anything (up to a point ...) that uses > autoconf or traditional Makefiles will just build. Look for it in the > App Store. > Got that, thanks! > > Curiously enough, in the last couple of weeks, I've switched back to > Linux after using Macs as my primary desktops since 2005 ... Very little > pain so far, except for iPhone support (grumble). > I will still use Linux for myself, this is more of a 'family' computer. I wanted my kids to have access to something really simple and powerful that can run anything they are likely to need, and isn't Windows. With Crossover there is almost nothing that is 'incompatible'. I can't believe Crossover Mac is like $60 though! Jeez... > > cheers, > Stewart > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 12:55:41 2013 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob295) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 08:55:41 -0400 Subject: looking for Raspberry Pi'rs Message-ID: <18985303.kmNpvoE446@bob-kubuntu> I have a new toy on my desk. Quite impressed so far. I also host an online Introduction to Linux Programming course (http://www.icanprogram.com/55ux/main.html). I'm looking for volunteers to run through this course using only a Raspberry Pi (including a Raspberry Pi via ssh). If you are interested in helping out don't hesitate to contact me offlist. bob PS. I have had a screencast version of this course material on my "wish list" for some time. I'd love to connect with someone with screencast production experience. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 13:00:45 2013 From: iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Isaac Connor) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 09:00:45 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5177D77D.9070306@connortechnology.com> Actually imacs come apart really easily if you know how and have the right tools. You need a suction cups to remove the screen (it's held on with magnets). Then all the screws are visible. You need a variety of torx drivers to remove the screws. Isaac On 13-04-24 08:19 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 8:37 PM, Dave Cramer > wrote: > > I use a mac for my desktop as well. You seem to have found your > way around. There are some rather not nice things. > > 1) Just this morning my computer failed to start after shutdown. > You have to unplug it and wait a while, or remove the memory. Make > sure you have a backup machine to search for the solution to these > problems > 2) If you replace the hard drive, which I just did you have to 1) > pay apple to do it, or 2) buy a special cable and a regular HD and > very carefully do it yourself, 3) buy software to control the fan > speed and very carefully do it yourself. > > > I will probably never want to do that, I don't even think I could. The > newest iMacs are like permanently sealed or something. Not worried, we > have Apple Care :-) > > > Oh, almost forgot do yourself a huge favour and find a way to run > time machine, when the hard drive in question failed I was able to > completely restore my machine; albeit in 20 hours. This feature > alone is worth a huge amount of time > > > Someone showed me Time Machine, it looks pretty cool. Will definitely > be setting that up. I've got a 1TB external with eSATA connection. > Apparently I have to invest in a Thunderbolt to eSATA adapter which is > NOT CHEAP. Oh well, it will be very handy I am sure. Another cool > thing is I have a 27" display that I also want to connect and have > dual displays :-) > > > I use a drobo which I wouldn't recommend as it's flaky, but I've > already got 600 bucks into it, so I'm not about to toss it. > > Candidly I think apple has seen it's best days, but I'll still use > it for a couple more product cycles > > Dave Cramer > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Thomas Milne > > wrote: > > So I finally convinced my boss that our family needed a > "family" computer and that the best choice for a variety of > reasons is a new iMac :-) > > It is awesome. Besides being ten times faster than what I've > been used to it is so easy to use though some things take too > many mouse clicks. I have been using Linux for about ten years > so there are some weird things to get used to like installing > apps and so on (no more package manager) but overall it had > been really nice. > > I was happy to see a lot of free software is available for Mac > same as on Linux, especially Transmission and Gimp. I saw that > there are even package managers for Mac to install these apps, > namely Fink and MacPorts. > > Anyone have any experience with these on Mountain Lion? I am > still so new with the Mac I suppose I have a greater fear of > making a mess of it. > > Any free software tips or tricks for Mac appreciated :-) > > > > > > -- > Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 13:01:48 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 09:01:48 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dave Cramer On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 8:37 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> I use a mac for my desktop as well. You seem to have found your way >> around. There are some rather not nice things. >> >> 1) Just this morning my computer failed to start after shutdown. You have >> to unplug it and wait a while, or remove the memory. Make sure you have a >> backup machine to search for the solution to these problems >> 2) If you replace the hard drive, which I just did you have to 1) pay >> apple to do it, or 2) buy a special cable and a regular HD and very >> carefully do it yourself, 3) buy software to control the fan speed and very >> carefully do it yourself. >> > > I will probably never want to do that, I don't even think I could. The > newest iMacs are like permanently sealed or something. Not worried, we have > Apple Care :-) > Well apple care still means you have to go there and get them to do it. I doubt they are permanently sealed. Changing the HD isn't that tough, the outside glass is held on with magnets, I used my GPS window suction cup to remove it > > >> >> Oh, almost forgot do yourself a huge favour and find a way to run time >> machine, when the hard drive in question failed I was able to completely >> restore my machine; albeit in 20 hours. This feature alone is worth a huge >> amount of time >> > > Someone showed me Time Machine, it looks pretty cool. Will definitely be > setting that up. I've got a 1TB external with eSATA connection. Apparently > I have to invest in a Thunderbolt to eSATA adapter which is NOT CHEAP. Oh > well, it will be very handy I am sure. Another cool thing is I have a 27" > display that I also want to connect and have dual displays :-) > You got a second thunderbolt display, cool, Im jealeaous > > >> I use a drobo which I wouldn't recommend as it's flaky, but I've already >> got 600 bucks into it, so I'm not about to toss it. >> >> Candidly I think apple has seen it's best days, but I'll still use it for >> a couple more product cycles >> >> Dave Cramer >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Thomas Milne < >> thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: >> >>> So I finally convinced my boss that our family needed a "family" >>> computer and that the best choice for a variety of reasons is a new iMac :-) >>> >>> It is awesome. Besides being ten times faster than what I've been used >>> to it is so easy to use though some things take too many mouse clicks. I >>> have been using Linux for about ten years so there are some weird things to >>> get used to like installing apps and so on (no more package manager) but >>> overall it had been really nice. >>> >>> I was happy to see a lot of free software is available for Mac same as >>> on Linux, especially Transmission and Gimp. I saw that there are even >>> package managers for Mac to install these apps, namely Fink and MacPorts. >>> >>> Anyone have any experience with these on Mountain Lion? I am still so >>> new with the Mac I suppose I have a greater fear of making a mess of it. >>> >>> Any free software tips or tricks for Mac appreciated :-) >>> >> >> > > > -- > Thomas Milne > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 13:05:24 2013 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 10:05:24 -0300 Subject: looking for Raspberry Pi'rs In-Reply-To: <18985303.kmNpvoE446@bob-kubuntu> References: <18985303.kmNpvoE446@bob-kubuntu> Message-ID: Didn't get the main idea (sorry). Just need someone with a raspberry pi who can read and execute the steps of your course? I checked your link and saw the steps/exercises. That's what you need? I have a Raspberry pi with arch linux installed on it.I'm sorry if I didn't get the whole idea (not a native english speaker - brazilian who lives in brazil). =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduado em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. 2013/4/24 bob295 > I have a new toy on my desk. Quite impressed so far. > > I also host an online Introduction to Linux Programming course > (http://www.icanprogram.com/55ux/main.html). I'm looking for > volunteers to > run through this course using only a Raspberry Pi (including a Raspberry Pi > via ssh). > > If you are interested in helping out don't hesitate to contact me offlist. > > bob > PS. > I have had a screencast version of this course material on my "wish list" > for > some time. I'd love to connect with someone with screencast production > experience. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 13:11:27 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 09:11:27 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > > > Dave Cramer > > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Thomas Milne < > thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 8:37 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: >> >>> I use a mac for my desktop as well. You seem to have found your way >>> around. There are some rather not nice things. >>> >>> 1) Just this morning my computer failed to start after shutdown. You >>> have to unplug it and wait a while, or remove the memory. Make sure you >>> have a backup machine to search for the solution to these problems >>> 2) If you replace the hard drive, which I just did you have to 1) pay >>> apple to do it, or 2) buy a special cable and a regular HD and very >>> carefully do it yourself, 3) buy software to control the fan speed and very >>> carefully do it yourself. >>> >> >> I will probably never want to do that, I don't even think I could. The >> newest iMacs are like permanently sealed or something. Not worried, we have >> Apple Care :-) >> > > Well apple care still means you have to go there and get them to do it. I > doubt they are permanently sealed. Changing the HD isn't that tough, the > outside glass is held on with magnets, I used my GPS window suction cup to > remove it > That's cool :-) > > >> >> >>> >>> Oh, almost forgot do yourself a huge favour and find a way to run time >>> machine, when the hard drive in question failed I was able to completely >>> restore my machine; albeit in 20 hours. This feature alone is worth a huge >>> amount of time >>> >> >> Someone showed me Time Machine, it looks pretty cool. Will definitely be >> setting that up. I've got a 1TB external with eSATA connection. Apparently >> I have to invest in a Thunderbolt to eSATA adapter which is NOT CHEAP. Oh >> well, it will be very handy I am sure. Another cool thing is I have a 27" >> display that I also want to connect and have dual displays :-) >> > > You got a second thunderbolt display, cool, Im jealeaous > Well, I have a display with HDMI, so that's another adapter I would need. >> >>> I use a drobo which I wouldn't recommend as it's flaky, but I've already >>> got 600 bucks into it, so I'm not about to toss it. >>> >>> Candidly I think apple has seen it's best days, but I'll still use it >>> for a couple more product cycles >>> >>> Dave Cramer >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Thomas Milne < >>> thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: >>> >>>> So I finally convinced my boss that our family needed a "family" >>>> computer and that the best choice for a variety of reasons is a new iMac :-) >>>> >>>> It is awesome. Besides being ten times faster than what I've been used >>>> to it is so easy to use though some things take too many mouse clicks. I >>>> have been using Linux for about ten years so there are some weird things to >>>> get used to like installing apps and so on (no more package manager) but >>>> overall it had been really nice. >>>> >>>> I was happy to see a lot of free software is available for Mac same as >>>> on Linux, especially Transmission and Gimp. I saw that there are even >>>> package managers for Mac to install these apps, namely Fink and MacPorts. >>>> >>>> Anyone have any experience with these on Mountain Lion? I am still so >>>> new with the Mac I suppose I have a greater fear of making a mess of it. >>>> >>>> Any free software tips or tricks for Mac appreciated :-) >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Thomas Milne >> > > -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 13:18:38 2013 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob295) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 09:18:38 -0400 Subject: looking for Raspberry Pi'rs In-Reply-To: References: <18985303.kmNpvoE446@bob-kubuntu> Message-ID: <8652550.uTzm2oz46o@bob-kubuntu> Yes. I'm looking for "pilot students" who have no prior exposure to this course material to help work through the lesson changes, new instructions etc. that will be required for someone to do these lessons on a Raspberry Pi. As the author of this courseware, I'm not the ideal candidate to find all the issues that a novice will encounter. Thanks. bob On April 24, 2013 10:05:24 AM you wrote: Didn't get the main idea (sorry). Just need someone with a raspberry pi who can read and execute the steps of your course? I checked your link and saw the steps/exercises. That's what you need? I have a Raspberry pi with arch linux installed on it.I'm sorry if I didn't get the whole idea (not a native english speaker - brazilian who lives in brazil). =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduado em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3[1] | CSM[2] | LPI-C1[3] | _LPI-C2_ | _LPI-C3_ | Novell CLA[4] Minha Pessoa: Blog[5] Projetos: Tux-CE[6] | Archlinux-br[7] | Chakra[8] | KDE Brasil[9] | TLUG[10] | PUG-CE[11] =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu.N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta).Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim adissemina??o de v?rus e spam. 2013/4/24 bob295 I have a new toy on my desk. Quite impressed so far. I also host an online Introduction to Linux Programming course(http://www.icanprogram.com/55ux/main.html[13]). I'm looking for volunteers torun through this course using only a Raspberry Pi (including a Raspberry Pivia ssh). If you are interested in helping out don't hesitate to contact me offlist. bobPS.I have had a screencast version of this course material on my "wish list" forsome time. I'd love to connect with someone with screencast productionexperience.--The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/[14] http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists[15] -------- [1] http://www.itil-officialsite.com/Qualifications/ITILV3QualificationLevels/ITILV3FoundationQualificatio ninITServiceManagement.aspx [2] http://www.scrumalliance.org/ [3] http://www.lpi.org/ [4] http://www.novell.com/training/certinfo/cla/ [5] http://www.marcelocavalcante.net [6] http://www.tux-ce.org [7] http://www.archlinux-br.org [8] http://www.chakra-project.org/ [9] http://br.kde.org [10] http://gtalug.org/wiki/Main_Page [11] http://pug-ce.python.org.br/blog/ [12] mailto:icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org [13] http://www.icanprogram.com/55ux/main.html [14] http://gtalug.org/ [15] http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 13:34:05 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 09:34:05 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo-WXK5sLB/SxgR8UyDmTZ/NZEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It costs $3k to declare that you have no money? Will they take a credit card or cheque? On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:25 PM, James Mcintosh wrote: > I talked to a local company. > > Declaring bankruptcy costs nearly $3,000. > > James E. McIntosh > jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > *From:* Dave Cramer > *To:* tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > *Sent:* Monday, April 22, 2013 5:32:25 PM > *Subject:* Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey > > Hmmm, I'm not sure they did anything wrong at this point, I just think > it's an unreasonable stance on their part. They can have everything he owes > them right now, or nothing. Seems to be a no brainer to me, but what do I > know. > > On a related note, I heard that someone in a similar situation went into > CIBC, they owed 10k on a visa, offered the bank 2500 and the bank took it. > They also are on the verge of bankruptcy. However they will have an R9 > credit rating which is treated exactly the same as a bankruptcy > so I question why bother paying them anything, just declare bankruptcy > > Dave Cramer > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > > Here's something I got from this list a while ago. I don't recall who > originally posted it, but thank you! It's proved helpful for a friend > who had some billing trouble himself. > > > If your provider is screwing you over, I suggest contacting the CCTS. > > Though my provider swore up-and-down there was no way I could get a > > refund, a short while after filing an official complaint they refunded > > the extra month's charge: > > > > https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/complaints/complaint-form > > --Bob. > > > > > On 13-04-22 05:17 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > > My son has a formidable bill with bell due to youthful stupidity. > > > > I spoke to bell and said they have three choices > > > > 1) he declares bankruptcy and they get 0 > > 2) he does a consumer debt proposal and they get 50% > > 3) we negotiate where he pays what he owes them and they cancel the > contract > > > > He owes around 2k, his cancellation fees are 2k (yes he has 4 phones, > don't > > ask) > > > > First off you can't find one person that can deal with this, you have to > > talk to A/R for negotiating payment, then retention to discuss > cancellation. > > > > In the end they won't discuss it at all. Any constructive advice would be > > helpful > > > > Dave Cramer > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen < > > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 05:00:16PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >>> Twice. ;-) > >>> > >>> BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was > >>> an intersection at Michael and Michael. > >> > >> The best one I know, is Weber and King in Waterloo/Kithener. Weber > starts > >> and ends and king street, and cross it in the middle. So there are 3 > >> intersections of those two streets in about 14km. > >> > >> -- > >> Len Sorensen > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 13:55:31 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 09:55:31 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: <5177D77D.9070306-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <5177D77D.9070306@connortechnology.com> Message-ID: <5177E453.5050504@rogers.com> Isaac Connor wrote: > Actually imacs come apart really easily if you know how and have the > right tools. If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 14:24:30 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 10:24:30 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: References: <51775900.5060103@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wine runs on a Mac for free, and for a while I ran a small consultancy from a Mac running Virtual box and XP. Seconding getting a drive or some sort of network resource to do Time Machine. It's really great when it just works. It's a bear when it doesn't, though; it's a tangle of folders and hard links and OS X file attributes. I wish there were something that simple for Linux; snapshot is good but fiddly. (Talking of, file attributes are a big thing on OS X, but not so much on desktop Linux. You will get bitten by the Quarantine attribute - anything you download has it set, and even chmod +x won't get around it - and a couple of minutes reading about xattr(1) will be useful.) Cheers Stewart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 17:52:26 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: paper orientation Message-ID: I rarely use speeadsheets, so I'm not to good at them. Often they are wider than they are tall. Like the one I just did with Libreoffice. So I do a print preview and get stuff falling off the right side of a portrait mode page. I go to "format page" (on print preview still), tab "page" and select "Orientation" "Landscape". The print preview looks just fin, so I press the "Print file directly" icon on print preview. And my page comes out in portrait mode, with some columns missing. Why? What's the fix? Note: it didn't take two pages to print the whole width. Which makes me think that the spreadsheet really did think it was printing landscape. The printer is a Brother DCP-7065DN connected to the LAN. The printer driver is proprietary, but fits into CUPs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 18:54:07 2013 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 14:54:07 -0400 Subject: paper orientation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51782A4F.60003@ss.org> On 04/24/2013 01:52 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I rarely use speeadsheets, so I'm not to good at them. > > Often they are wider than they are tall. Like the one I just did with > Libreoffice. So I do a print preview and get stuff falling off the right > side of a portrait mode page. I go to "format page" (on print preview > still), tab "page" and select "Orientation" "Landscape". The print > preview looks just fin, so I press the "Print file directly" icon on print > preview. And my page comes out in portrait mode, with some columns > missing. Why? What's the fix? So I've notice this behaviour in more then one application outside of {Open|Libre}Office, notably kOrganizer when I print my calendars. I haven't looked hard enough to find an answer, but I do have reliable work around. Print to PDF, verify that it's in landscape, then print the pdf. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 19:10:03 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 15:10:03 -0400 Subject: paper orientation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130424191003.GA2051@node1.localdomain> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 01:52:26PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I rarely use speeadsheets, so I'm not to good at them. > > Often they are wider than they are tall. Like the one I just did with > Libreoffice. So I do a print preview and get stuff falling off the right > side of a portrait mode page. I go to "format page" (on print preview > still), tab "page" and select "Orientation" "Landscape". The print > preview looks just fin, so I press the "Print file directly" icon on print > preview. And my page comes out in portrait mode, with some columns > missing. Why? What's the fix? > > Note: it didn't take two pages to print the whole width. Which makes me > think that the spreadsheet really did think it was printing landscape. > > The printer is a Brother DCP-7065DN connected to the LAN. The printer > driver is proprietary, but fits into CUPs. This happens with Firefox printing also. I reduce magnification (from print preview, not the webpage window) until I can see all the content. :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tchitow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 20:25:04 2013 From: tchitow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 16:25:04 -0400 Subject: paper orientation In-Reply-To: <20130424191003.GA2051-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130424191003.GA2051@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: You probably want to change the layout of the document itself and not the printer option. Should be under Format->Page->Page->Paper format. Martin On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 3:10 PM, William Park wrote: > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 01:52:26PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > I rarely use speeadsheets, so I'm not to good at them. > > > > Often they are wider than they are tall. Like the one I just did with > > Libreoffice. So I do a print preview and get stuff falling off the right > > side of a portrait mode page. I go to "format page" (on print preview > > still), tab "page" and select "Orientation" "Landscape". The print > > preview looks just fin, so I press the "Print file directly" icon on > print > > preview. And my page comes out in portrait mode, with some columns > > missing. Why? What's the fix? > > > > Note: it didn't take two pages to print the whole width. Which makes me > > think that the spreadsheet really did think it was printing landscape. > > > > The printer is a Brother DCP-7065DN connected to the LAN. The printer > > driver is proprietary, but fits into CUPs. > > This happens with Firefox printing also. I reduce magnification (from > print preview, not the webpage window) until I can see all the content. > :-) > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 23:07:04 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 19:07:04 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord In-Reply-To: <20130422210902.GO21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20130422012332.GA3182@waltdnes.org> <51752BF7.1000701@rogers.com> <20130422192842.GM21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <5175A4DF.5090008@rogers.com> <20130422210902.GO21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Update: Placed the order with TekSavvy today: 50/10 FTTN with a 300GB limit. Price is good. They no longer rent the modem, you have to buy it ($130). As it's fairly specialized and, as has been noted, probably has some Bell-specific hacks, there' s no shopping around for it. I'm pleasantly surprised at how much legitimately free TV content is allowed through Plex channel plugins. Wondering if the proxy will be worth it, but I guess it doesn't hurt to try. Visited the Save & Replay brick-and-mortar store to talk antennas. Gonna see how much I can get without having to put a big ugly thing outside. After replacing the tabletop with a Terk, I now get all the Toronto stations plus one Buffalo one (WNLO 23) that isn't even available on cable. Will experiment more before plunking down cash on that. Now it's time to go server shopping, something that can do all the fetching and encoding and DVRing (mainly Plex server, MythTV and assorted Usenet services.). It may cost, but I'll be paying almost $200/month less in fees so what I spend will be recouped soon enough. On 22 April 2013 17:09, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 05:00:16PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > Twice. ;-) > > > > BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was > > an intersection at Michael and Michael. > > The best one I know, is Weber and King in Waterloo/Kithener. Weber starts > and ends and king street, and cross it in the middle. So there are 3 > intersections of those two streets in about 14km. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 23:28:25 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 19:28:25 -0400 Subject: How do I *PERMANENTLY* remove extra toolbars in gnumeric? In-Reply-To: <20130424023702.GA5181-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20130422045136.GA3582@waltdnes.org> <1366761257.48166.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <20130424023702.GA5181@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20130424232825.GC12947@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:37:02PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 04:54:17PM -0700, E K wrote > > > > Walter, > > You can edit the gnumeric config file directly. Check the directory > > ~/.gconf/apps/gnumeric/core/gui/toolbars and edit the %conf.xml > > file in there. I am sure one you get there you know what to do :-) > > No such animal. Google searching ran into "gsettings". I tried > issuing the command... > > gsettings sltdnes][~] et org.gnome.gnumeric.core.gui.toolbars longformat-visible false > > ...but it comes back with... > > GLib-GIO-Message: Using the 'memory' GSettings backend. Your settings will not be saved or shared with other applications. > > ...which renders the settings pointless. Now what? Some more Google-spelunking... it looks like GNOME in general (gnumeric is a GNOME app) is converting from gconf to GSettings. Bleagh. I am now seriously considering a switch to openoffice. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 24 23:36:28 2013 From: jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Mcintosh) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 16:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1366846588.6642.YahooMailNeo@web140705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In my case, all except two credit cards have been cancelled, with no outstanding debt on them. ? In the two remaining cards, my credit limits have been set to zero. ? Paying a debt with a cheque when you know that you have insufficient funds is a crime, and paying a debt with a credit card with a credit limit of zero is impossible. ? Were you joking? ? James E. McIntosh jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org? ________________________________ From: Tim Tisdall To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:34:05 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey It costs $3k to declare that you have no money? ?Will they take a credit card or cheque? On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:25 PM, James Mcintosh wrote: I talked to a local company. >? >Declaring bankruptcy costs nearly $3,000. >? >James E. McIntosh >jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > >?From: Dave Cramer >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:32:25 PM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey > > > >Hmmm, I'm not sure they did anything wrong at this point, I just think it's an unreasonable stance on their part. They can have everything he owes them right now, or nothing. Seems to be a no brainer to me, but what do I know. > > >On a related note, I heard that someone in a similar situation went into CIBC, they owed 10k on a visa, offered the bank 2500 and the bank took it.? >They also are on the verge of bankruptcy. However they will have an R9 credit rating which is treated exactly the same as a bankruptcy? >so I question why bother paying them anything, just declare bankruptcy > > >Dave Cramer > > >On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > >Here's something I got from this list a while ago. ?I don't recall who >>originally posted it, but thank you! It's proved helpful for a friend >>who had some billing trouble himself. >> >>> ? ?If your provider is screwing you over, I suggest contacting the CCTS. >>> ? ?Though my provider swore up-and-down there was no way I could get a >>> ? ?refund, a short while after filing an official complaint they refunded >>> ? ?the extra month's charge: >>> >>> ? ?https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/complaints/complaint-form >> >>--Bob. >> >> >> >> >> >>On 13-04-22 05:17 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: >>> My son has a formidable bill with bell due to youthful stupidity. >>> >>> I spoke to bell and said they have three choices >>> >>> 1) he declares bankruptcy and they get 0 >>> 2) he does a consumer debt proposal and they get 50% >>> 3) we negotiate where he pays what he owes them and they cancel the contract >>> >>> He owes around 2k, his cancellation fees are 2k (yes he has 4 phones, don't >>> ask) >>> >>> First off you can't find one person that can deal with this, you have to >>> talk to A/R for negotiating payment, then retention to discuss cancellation. >>> >>> In the end they won't discuss it at all. Any constructive advice would be >>> helpful >>> >>> Dave Cramer >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen < >>> lsorense at csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 05:00:16PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>>>> Twice. ?;-) >>>>> >>>>> BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was >>>>> an intersection at Michael and Michael. >>>> >>>> The best one I know, is Weber and King in Waterloo/Kithener. ?Weber starts >>>> and ends and king street, and cross it in the middle. ?So there are 3 >>>> intersections of those two streets in about 14km. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Len Sorensen >>>> -- >>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>> >> >> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 00:07:23 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 20:07:23 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: <1366846588.6642.YahooMailNeo-WXK5sLB/SxgMe+d1jY/0H5EhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1366846588.6642.YahooMailNeo@web140705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: James, > > In my case, all except two credit cards have been cancelled, with no outstanding debt on them. > > In the two remaining cards, my credit limits have been set to zero. > > Paying a debt with a cheque when you know that you have insufficient funds is a crime, and paying a debt with a credit card with a credit limit of zero is impossible. > > Were you joking? > > I don't think he was joking. He is mostly confused of the process as I am. See, for you to sit and decide to declair bankruptcy, you mostly wouldn't have any money at all. So you would get to a catch 22 scenario where you need bankruptcy to exit debt but can't afford to pay for bankruptcy. Who receive the $3,000? Lawyer's? Bank? Where do you go to declair bankruptcy? Just being curious here. William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 01:49:15 2013 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 21:49:15 -0400 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?By_the_numbers=3A_How_Google_Compute_Engine_stacks_up_?= =?windows-1252?Q?to_Amazon_EC2_=97_Tech_News_and_Analysis?= Message-ID: Hi, Good read here. Have worked with EC2, but looks like Google compute engine are even better. http://gigaom.com/2013/03/15/by-the-numbers-how-google-compute-engine-stacks-up-to-amazon-ec2/ William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 01:59:31 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 21:59:31 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1366846588.6642.YahooMailNeo@web140705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 8:07 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > I don't think he was joking. He is mostly confused of the process as I am. > > See, for you to sit and decide to declair bankruptcy, you mostly wouldn't > have any money at all. So you would get to a catch 22 scenario where you > need bankruptcy to exit debt but can't afford to pay for bankruptcy. > > Who receive the $3,000? Lawyer's? Bank? Where do you go to declair > bankruptcy? Just being curious here. A bit dated perhaps but myths 3, 4, 5 and 8 from seem relevant to this thread. A quick google search ("ontario bankruptcy fees") turned that story up along with ; that'd be one way to go about it I suppose*. FWIW (perhaps this is a bit unfair? I'm not an economist) I believe credit is evil; from personal finances to national it creates problems, stress, and conflict. Short-term gain for long-term loss (interest/fees) just doesn't make sense - unless you're a creditor or part of his/her food-chain. * Link should not be construed as providing legal advice or as an endorsement of any kind; simply noting the easy-to-recall URL. -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 02:05:30 2013 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 22:05:30 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1366846588.6642.YahooMailNeo@web140705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <51788F6A.2050303@rogers.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > FWIW (perhaps this is a bit unfair? I'm not an economist) I believe > credit is evil; from personal finances to national it creates > problems Well, if it weren't for mortgages, most people couldn't buy a home. Capital projects in business and government often require borrowing. Are you suggesting that cities not build major infrastructure projects, if they don't have cash in hand? If so, then we'd likely see little built. What about all the stores that get stock on credit? Credit is not the problem. Abuse of it is. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 06:47:38 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 02:47:38 -0400 Subject: Soup Alternatives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130425064738.GA9263@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:20:35PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Based on what I saw the most tempting three seemed to be Pickle > Barrel, Swiss Chalet and Panera Bread. Other thoughts? Swiss Chalet. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 08:06:04 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 04:06:04 -0400 Subject: Soup Alternatives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A few other possibilities - Kabab Grill, Yonge & Gerard (middle eastern) -- good reviews, meat and veggie variety, has upstairs seating that could be talked into reserving a spot for regulars. - Donair Kebab House, same area -- ditto except for the upstairs - Yueh Tung, Dundas @ Elizabeth - There's always the food court in the Toronto Life bldg (NE corner Yonge & Dundas, where the futureshop is. There are a number of highly-rated non-chain places there. On 23 April 2013 22:20, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Christopher Browne > wrote: > > We were puzzling over possibilities that might be preferable to Salad > King > > for pre-meeting dining, and, as the set of possibilities seemed not quite > > sufficient, it seemed like a good idea to draw ideas from a somewhat > broader > > audience. > > > > The difficulty that was observed was that the room was rather noisy, but > it > > wouldn't do to jump to something else and leap from bad to worse, hence > > here's a set of constraints that seem needful: > > > > a) Needs to be "near enough" to the meeting, basically within a 15 minute > > walk. (Think about how far Pho88 was from the U(T) engineering > building...) > > > > b) Not too expensive (Barberian's is doubtless good, but they haven't > got an > > entree below $25!) > > > > c) Quiet enough > > > > d) Open until 7:30 (it appears there are restaurants targeting lunch > crowd > > that will be closed for dinner) > > > > e) Reasonable range of food that notably has offerings to vegetarians > better > > than "oh, there's a slice of tomato on the burger" > > > > f) Can cope with 20 people arriving in a bit of a disorganized flurry, > > without massive formal reservation > > > > The only thing leaping to mind was the Pickle Barrel @ Atrium, which > wasn't > > exciting the group too much. > > This afternoon I attended a downtown talk by Oracle about their new T > and M series SPARC computers (not a good talk but for reasons outside > Oracle's control, two fire alarms during the talk). After I had a walk > around Yonge & Dundas looking at possible "Salad King" > alternatives.... I would add a point to the above list: > > g) Must be "family" friendly. > > With the above in mind here are the places I looked at briefly this > evening and my take on them: > > Discards: > > - Milestones - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 4th floor - very limited > number of under $15 menu items. > - Jack Astor's - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 4th floor - very limited > number of under $15 menu items. > - Johnny Rockets - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas off Dundas, Ground floor > - Very little for the vegetarians > - Five Guys Burgers - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas, off Yonge, Ground > floor - Vegetarian hostile > - Chipotle Mexican Grill - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas, off Yonge, > Ground floor - Very limited menu > - Zanzibar - Yonge just north of Gould east side - Has "Adult" > entertainment, enough said. > - Made in China - Yonge just north of Gould east side - Dining room > seemed too small > - Korean Grill House - Yonge just north of Gould east side - Dining > room seemed too small > - St. Louis Bar and Grill - Atrium on Bay N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - > Sporting event on and place was PACKED. > > Worth further review: > > - Tim Hortons - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas Ground floor (entrance off > Victoria) - Basic, reliable > - Food court - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 3rd floor - Good range of > inexpensive food, didn't seem that crowded about 7 PM > - Panera Bread - N/W corner Yonge & Edward. - Sandwiches, soup, & > pasta. Has 2nd floor eating area > - Pickle Barrel - Atrium on Bay - N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Good all > round spot > - Hard Rock Cafe - On Yonge, just south of Dundas Square - Touristy > but otherwise has possibilities > - Swiss Chalet - Yonge just north of Gould west side - Basic, reliable > - Spring Sushi - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 5th floor - Didn't see > dining room, but menu looks interesting > - Spring Roll - Atrium on Bay N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Seemed a bit > busy but has possibilities. > > Based on what I saw the most tempting three seemed to be Pickle > Barrel, Swiss Chalet and Panera Bread. Other thoughts? > > > Colin McGregor > > > -- > > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 10:52:34 2013 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 06:52:34 -0400 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BTLUG=5D=3A_By_the_numbers=3A_How_Google_Compute_Engin?= =?windows-1252?Q?e_stacks_up_to_Amazon_EC2_=97_Tech_News_and_Analysis?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The numbers look awesome, however there are some plusses and minuses to the disks, remounting them with ease seems to be more difficult, but mounting them read only on other hosts presents some awesome possibilities Dave Cramer On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 9:49 PM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Hi, > > Good read here. Have worked with EC2, but looks like Google compute engine > are even better. > > > http://gigaom.com/2013/03/15/by-the-numbers-how-google-compute-engine-stacks-up-to-amazon-ec2/ > > William > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 11:54:35 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 07:54:35 -0400 Subject: paper orientation In-Reply-To: References: <20130424191003.GA2051@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: <5179197B.8090700@gmail.com> On 13-04-24 04:25 PM, Martin Duclos wrote: > You probably want to change the layout of the document itself and not > the printer option. Should be under Format->Page->Page->Paper format. Not just that, but OO and LO expect the print range to be defined: select all the stuff you want printed, then Format ? Print Range ? Define. Then you can choose to have the content scaled to fit so many pages across: Format ? Page ... ? Sheet ? Scaling Mode ? Fit Print Range(s) to width/height. Also, if you're printing landscape duplex, don't forget to set "Short Edge Binding" (which I think used to be called "no tumble turn") or your pages will come out alternately upside down. Happiness is the sight of a boardroom full of execs grumpily flipping over presentation printouts 'cos someone forgot about this ... cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 13:20:38 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 09:20:38 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1366846588.6642.YahooMailNeo@web140705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It was a little of both... On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 8:07 PM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > James, > > > > > In my case, all except two credit cards have been cancelled, with no > outstanding debt on them. > > > > In the two remaining cards, my credit limits have been set to zero. > > > > Paying a debt with a cheque when you know that you have insufficient > funds is a crime, and paying a debt with a credit card with a credit limit > of zero is impossible. > > > > Were you joking? > > > > > I don't think he was joking. He is mostly confused of the process as I am. > > See, for you to sit and decide to declair bankruptcy, you mostly wouldn't > have any money at all. So you would get to a catch 22 scenario where you > need bankruptcy to exit debt but can't afford to pay for bankruptcy. > > Who receive the $3,000? Lawyer's? Bank? Where do you go to declair > bankruptcy? Just being curious here. > > William > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 15:35:53 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 11:35:53 -0400 Subject: Soup Alternatives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Okay, so let me update the list: On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 4:06 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > A few other possibilities > > Kabab Grill, Yonge & Gerard (middle eastern) -- good reviews, meat and > veggie variety, has upstairs seating that could be talked into reserving a > spot for regulars. > > Donair Kebab House, same area -- ditto except for the upstairs > > Yueh Tung, Dundas @ Elizabeth > > There's always the food court in the Toronto Life bldg (NE corner Yonge & > Dundas, where the futureshop is. There are a number of highly-rated > non-chain places there. The food court I noted below is the one above Future Shop. > > On 23 April 2013 22:20, Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Christopher Browne >> wrote: >> > We were puzzling over possibilities that might be preferable to Salad >> > King >> > for pre-meeting dining, and, as the set of possibilities seemed not >> > quite >> > sufficient, it seemed like a good idea to draw ideas from a somewhat >> > broader >> > audience. >> > >> > The difficulty that was observed was that the room was rather noisy, but >> > it >> > wouldn't do to jump to something else and leap from bad to worse, hence >> > here's a set of constraints that seem needful: >> > >> > a) Needs to be "near enough" to the meeting, basically within a 15 >> > minute >> > walk. (Think about how far Pho88 was from the U(T) engineering >> > building...) >> > >> > b) Not too expensive (Barberian's is doubtless good, but they haven't >> > got an >> > entree below $25!) >> > >> > c) Quiet enough >> > >> > d) Open until 7:30 (it appears there are restaurants targeting lunch >> > crowd >> > that will be closed for dinner) >> > >> > e) Reasonable range of food that notably has offerings to vegetarians >> > better >> > than "oh, there's a slice of tomato on the burger" >> > >> > f) Can cope with 20 people arriving in a bit of a disorganized flurry, >> > without massive formal reservation >> > >> > The only thing leaping to mind was the Pickle Barrel @ Atrium, which >> > wasn't >> > exciting the group too much. >> >> This afternoon I attended a downtown talk by Oracle about their new T >> and M series SPARC computers (not a good talk but for reasons outside >> Oracle's control, two fire alarms during the talk). After I had a walk >> around Yonge & Dundas looking at possible "Salad King" >> alternatives.... I would add a point to the above list: >> >> g) Must be "family" friendly. >> >> With the above in mind here are the places I looked at briefly this >> evening and my take on them: >> >> Discards: >> >> - Milestones - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 4th floor - very limited >> number of under $15 menu items. >> - Jack Astor's - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 4th floor - very limited >> number of under $15 menu items. >> - Johnny Rockets - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas off Dundas, Ground floor >> - Very little for the vegetarians >> - Five Guys Burgers - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas, off Yonge, Ground >> floor - Vegetarian hostile >> - Chipotle Mexican Grill - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas, off Yonge, >> Ground floor - Very limited menu >> - Zanzibar - Yonge just north of Gould east side - Has "Adult" >> entertainment, enough said. >> - Made in China - Yonge just north of Gould east side - Dining room >> seemed too small >> - Korean Grill House - Yonge just north of Gould east side - Dining >> room seemed too small >> - St. Louis Bar and Grill - Atrium on Bay N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - >> Sporting event on and place was PACKED. >> >> Worth further review: >> >> - Tim Hortons - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas Ground floor (entrance off >> Victoria) - Basic, reliable >> - Food court - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 3rd floor - Good range of >> inexpensive food, didn't seem that crowded about 7 PM >> - Panera Bread - N/W corner Yonge & Edward. - Sandwiches, soup, & >> pasta. Has 2nd floor eating area >> - Pickle Barrel - Atrium on Bay - N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Good all >> round spot >> - Hard Rock Cafe - On Yonge, just south of Dundas Square - Touristy >> but otherwise has possibilities >> - Swiss Chalet - Yonge just north of Gould west side - Basic, reliable >> - Spring Sushi - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 5th floor - Didn't see >> dining room, but menu looks interesting >> - Spring Roll - Atrium on Bay N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Seemed a bit >> busy but has possibilities. - Kabab Grill, Yonge & Gerard (middle eastern) -- good reviews, meat and veggie variety, has upstairs seating that could be talked into reserving a spot for regulars. - Donair Kebab House, same area -- ditto except for the upstairs - Yueh Tung, Dundas @ Elizabeth >> Based on what I saw the most tempting three seemed to be Pickle >> Barrel, Swiss Chalet and Panera Bread. Other thoughts? Would there be an interest in a GTALug foodie folks outing at 6:00 PM April 30th (and/or May 7th) to try at least one of the "Worth further review" places? Colin McGregor >> > -- >> > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the >> > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > Toronto Canada > > Em: evan at telly dot org > Sk: evanleibovitch > Tw: el56 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 15:39:07 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 11:39:07 -0400 Subject: ReleasePartyWheezy Message-ID: Is there anyone in the GTA organizing a release party for the new Debian release Wheezy (http://bits.debian.org/2013/04/release-date.html)? If not is there anyone interested in helping to put together such a party? Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 15:46:12 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 11:46:12 -0400 Subject: ReleasePartyWheezy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130425154612.GP21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:39:07AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Is there anyone in the GTA organizing a release party for the new > Debian release Wheezy > (http://bits.debian.org/2013/04/release-date.html)? > > If not is there anyone interested in helping to put together such a party? A new Debian release certainly is a much bigger deal than a new Ubuntu or Fedora release (those happen all the time after all). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 18:02:34 2013 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 14:02:34 -0400 Subject: ReleasePartyWheezy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would like to help out of anyone does. Sent from my mobile device. On Apr 25, 2013 11:39 AM, "Colin McGregor" wrote: > Is there anyone in the GTA organizing a release party for the new > Debian release Wheezy > (http://bits.debian.org/2013/04/release-date.html)? > > If not is there anyone interested in helping to put together such a party? > > > Colin > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 20:39:14 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 16:39:14 -0400 Subject: CentOS NFS problem -- 30 seconds delay for "cat file" In-Reply-To: <1366773438.86169.YahooMailNeo-mhNdJOJujDZal3a5i+KC+JEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20130423065308.GA1915@node1.localdomain> <20130423103022.GA14285@watson-wilson.ca> <20130423163816.GA2749@node1.localdomain> <1366773438.86169.YahooMailNeo@web140601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20130425203914.GA2828@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 08:17:18PM -0700, DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: > William, > > Can we please see some strace output on the client side when you try > to use cat to access a file on an NFS share? Please iuse the "-T" > option for strace to get the time spent in system calls. Thanks, There is nothing revealing about "strace". It's taking all of its 30sec at open(2) call... waiting for something. $ mount 192.168.2.3:/home /mnt -o ro $ strace -T cat /mnt/nfs/william/user-agent ... open("/mnt/nfs/home/william/user-agent", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3 <30.033922> ... This is from 32bit CentOS client. From 64bit machines, it's ... open("/mnt/william/user-agent", O_RDONLY) = 3 <30.059668> ... I got tired of wiping/reinstalling distros to try out. So, I had to use bunch of KVMs. It took me a while to figure out "bridge" mode so that each VM has visible IP, because NFS server rejected connections from NAT'ed VM... something about "illegal port". Anyways, here are results from various clients: - Slackware -- instantaneous always - CentOS, Debian, Mint -- always 30sec hang at open(2) - Fedora, OpenSUSE, Ubuntu -- 30sec hang at first attempt to open the file, but immediate on subsequent tries. At least, I learned about "bridge" mode of QEMU. This all means that, I have to use NFS to locate a file, and use SSH to open it. Pain, but I'll live with it. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 21:13:49 2013 From: sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 21:13:49 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_:_ReleasePartyWheezy?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51799caf.4411320a.111b.0226@mx.google.com> Colin, Are you coming to the Ubuntu Release Party today in Toronto? We can talk about it then. From: Colin McGregor Sent: ?Thursday?, ?April? ?25?, ?2013 ?11?:?39? ?AM To: tlug Is there anyone in the GTA organizing a release party for the new Debian release Wheezy (http://bits.debian.org/2013/04/release-date.html)? If not is there anyone interested in helping to put together such a party? Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 21:20:03 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 17:20:03 -0400 Subject: ReleasePartyWheezy In-Reply-To: <51799caf.4411320a.111b.0226-ATjtLOhZ0NVl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <51799caf.4411320a.111b.0226@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 5:13 PM, wrote: > Colin, > > Are you coming to the Ubuntu Release Party today in Toronto? > We can talk about it then. Yes, and I was wondering about the Debian party being at the same site as the Ubuntu party... > From: Colin McGregor > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:39 AM > To: tlug > > Is there anyone in the GTA organizing a release party for the new > Debian release Wheezy > (http://bits.debian.org/2013/04/release-date.html)? > > If not is there anyone interested in helping to put together such a party? > > > Colin > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 21:26:38 2013 From: jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Mcintosh) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 14:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1366846588.6642.YahooMailNeo@web140705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1366925198.7771.YahooMailNeo@web140703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The bankruptcy trustee company handling the declaration of bankruptcy did not tell me what they would do with the money. They have various bankruptcy trustees (maybe half a dozen), two or more receptionists, a lot of handouts about bankruptcy laws, furniture, coffee, water dispensers, paper and styrofoam cups, a building, advertisements in newspapers, radio, television, etc. They have to use legal researchers to keep up to date with government bankruptcy laws, and train all their people on whatever changes may have been made, as well as create the revised handouts. Their charge is less than $3,000 - something like $2,700. The price may rise with time, due to inflation. James E. McIntosh jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org ________________________________ From: William Muriithi To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:07:23 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey James, > > In my case, all except two credit cards have been cancelled, with no outstanding debt on them. > ? > In the two remaining cards, my credit limits have been set to zero. > ? > Paying a debt with a cheque when you know that you have insufficient funds is a crime, and paying a debt with a credit card with a credit limit of zero is impossible. > ? > Were you joking? > ? > I don't think he was joking.? He is mostly confused of the process as I am. See, for you to sit and decide to declair bankruptcy, you mostly wouldn't have any money at all. So you would get to a catch 22 scenario where you need bankruptcy to exit debt but can't afford to pay for bankruptcy. Who receive the $3,000? Lawyer's?? Bank? Where do you go to declair bankruptcy? Just being curious here. William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From self_same_self-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 21:26:48 2013 From: self_same_self-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sammy Lao) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 14:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ReleasePartyWheezy Message-ID: <1366925208.46388.YahooMailWin8@web124701.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Can talk to Mike if he thinks it's a good idea.
He knows those people pretty well at the Alito.
From: Colin McGregor <colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
Sent: ?Thu, ?Apr? ?25?, ?2013 at ?5?:?20? ?PM
To: tlug <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: ReleasePartyWheezy

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 5:13 PM, <sammy.lao at freegeektoronto.org> wrote:
> Colin,
>
> Are you coming to the Ubuntu Release Party today in Toronto?
> We can talk about it then.

Yes, and I was wondering about the Debian party being at the same site
as the Ubuntu party...

> From: Colin McGregor
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:39 AM
> To: tlug
>
> Is there anyone in the GTA organizing a release party for the new
> Debian release Wheezy
> (http://bits.debian.org/2013/04/release-date.html)?
>
> If not is there anyone interested in helping to put together such a party?
>
>
> Colin
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 21:42:05 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 17:42:05 -0400 Subject: ReleasePartyWheezy In-Reply-To: <1366925208.46388.YahooMailWin8-uycnNeS+Xp0IL6oRCX9nZJOW+3bF1jUfVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1366925208.46388.YahooMailWin8@web124701.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20130425214205.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 02:26:48PM -0700, Sammy Lao wrote: >
> Can talk to Mike if he thinks it's a good idea.
He knows those people pretty well at the Alito.
>
>
> > From: Colin McGregor <colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
> Sent: ?Thu, ?Apr? ?25?, ?2013 at ?5?:?20? ?PM
> To: tlug <tlug at ss.org>
> > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: ReleasePartyWheezy
>

>
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 5:13 PM, <sammy.lao at freegeektoronto.org> wrote:
> Colin,
>
> Are you coming to the Ubuntu Release Party today in Toronto?
> We can talk about it then.

Yes, and I was wondering about the Debian party being at the same site
as the Ubuntu party...

> From: Colin McGregor
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:39 AM
> To: tlug
>
> Is there anyone in the GTA organizing a release party for the new
> Debian release Wheezy
> ( id="lw_1366925154_1">http://bits.debian.org/2013/04/release-date.html)?
>
> If not is there anyone interested in helping to put together such a party?
>
>
> Colin
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
>
That looks suspiciously like HTML, with lines longer than 80 characters. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From self_same_self-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 22:08:06 2013 From: self_same_self-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (self_same_self-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:08:06 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_:_ReleasePartyWheezy?= In-Reply-To: <20130425214205.GQ21770-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1366925208.46388.YahooMailWin8@web124701.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>,<20130425214205.GQ21770@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <113393.12435.bm@smtp110.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Sorry, Funny enough, I am in the process of switching to Windows 8 and yahoo mail on my mini laptop. It doesn?t look like that the yahoo mail app for windows 8 let me switch to plain text. Does using the mail app for windows 8 help? Sent from Windows Mail From: Lennart Sorensen Sent: ?Thursday?, ?April? ?25?, ?2013 ?5?:?42? ?PM To: tlug at ss.org On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 02:26:48PM -0700, Sammy Lao wrote: >
> Can talk to Mike if he thinks it's a good idea.
He knows those people > That looks suspiciously like HTML, with lines longer than 80 characters. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 25 22:37:25 2013 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 23:37:25 +0100 Subject: CentOS NFS problem -- 30 seconds delay for "cat file" In-Reply-To: <20130425203914.GA2828-+21/tKCbORjP0Z7Jsv878P8+0UxHXcjY@public.gmane.org> References: <20130423065308.GA1915@node1.localdomain> <20130423103022.GA14285@watson-wilson.ca> <20130423163816.GA2749@node1.localdomain> <1366773438.86169.YahooMailNeo@web140601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <20130425203914.GA2828@node1.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 9:39 PM, William Park wrote: > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 08:17:18PM -0700, DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: >> William, >> >> Can we please see some strace output on the client side when you try >> to use cat to access a file on an NFS share? Please iuse the "-T" >> option for strace to get the time spent in system calls. Thanks, > > There is nothing revealing about "strace". It's taking all of its 30sec > at open(2) call... waiting for something. > > $ mount 192.168.2.3:/home /mnt -o ro > $ strace -T cat /mnt/nfs/william/user-agent > ... > open("/mnt/nfs/home/william/user-agent", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3 <30.033922> That's actually a good thing...it means you've eliminated some other stupid local problem. > ... > > This is from 32bit CentOS client. From 64bit machines, it's > > ... > open("/mnt/william/user-agent", O_RDONLY) = 3 <30.059668> > ... > > I got tired of wiping/reinstalling distros to try out. So, I had to use > bunch of KVMs. It took me a while to figure out "bridge" mode so that > each VM has visible IP, because NFS server rejected connections from > NAT'ed VM... something about "illegal port". Anyways, here are results > from various clients: > > - Slackware -- instantaneous always > - CentOS, Debian, Mint -- always 30sec hang at open(2) > - Fedora, OpenSUSE, Ubuntu -- 30sec hang at first attempt to open > the file, but immediate on subsequent tries. These machines may have a caching system enabled...you should be able to see that fairly easily with strace but also by looking at the running processes. > > At least, I learned about "bridge" mode of QEMU. This all means that, I > have to use NFS to locate a file, and use SSH to open it. Pain, but > I'll live with it. Hit the box with wireshark to see where the network hiccup is. Living with something so annoying is not the way to go. :) Compare an ls with the cat to see if you can isolate the slow nfs rpc's? There are also some nfs debugging utilities that would probably give you a good amount of insight here too. Thanks -Ben -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 26 01:22:54 2013 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 21:22:54 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: <1366925198.7771.YahooMailNeo-WXK5sLB/SxgeBhY5O9xny5EhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1366846588.6642.YahooMailNeo@web140705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1366925198.7771.YahooMailNeo@web140703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: More simply, the people doing the work to prepare the legal filings reasonably expect to be paid for the work they are doing. There's certainly a Catch-22 here, and a troublesome one (albeit arguably less bad than the original Catch-22 wherein the participants risked getting killed; they were in the throes of WWII, after all.) Filing for bankruptcy requires preparing and filing some set of legal documents, and if you haven't the money (which is kind of likely, under the circumstances where you're keen on doing so), it may not be possible to do so. Those of us on this mailing list are presumably reasonably literate (as we have the habit of reading and writing), which means we could all imagine preparing those filings ourselves, assuming they aren't too opaque or counterintuitive. To folks that aren't literate, there's a big extra dose of scary there. The fees aren't obvious as something the government ought to cover. (At another end of the spectrum, I could see an article in the Sun yapping about that, to the effect that "Those crazy lefties want to add insult to injury by having Us Responsible Tax Paying People pay for their foolishness that led to their bankruptcy. And bankruptcy? We're just paying those lefties' bills!!!" The Sun is *so* strange...) It's not obvious to me that the government should pay to perform such filings; it's not self-evident that any of the levels of government ought to be properly considered responsible. But at leaves a strange looking gap, because someone who has had their assets seized to cover debts is vanishingly unlikely to have terribly much left over. Indeed, the reason to declare bankruptcy is that one's debts considerably exceed one's assets; otherwise, it's not worth the trouble. Giving the law firm first dibs on any of the last bits of assets is probably necessary in order for such a system to work, but seems rather strange from a fairness perspective; it makes them look pretty vulture-like. What I *imagine* is better is for this to be the sort of work that a general purpose law office would do pro-bono, though the tendency to specialize leads towards this getting dropped out, and pressed into the place where it is actually seen, namely with firms specializing in it, which means it *cannot* be done pro-bono, as those people need to eat, and it's not at all reasonable for their office to have no source of income. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 26 02:47:03 2013 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 22:47:03 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130426024703.GA2021@yam.nerd.cx> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 09:11:27AM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >Well, I have a display with HDMI, so that's another adapter I would need. Take a look at Monoprice for this kind of thing: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=5311&seq=1&format=2 Almost anything you want in the way of cords and adapters are going to be better priced and will work just as well from them. They do Canada Post shipping, for $6 for orders under $45. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 26 11:19:40 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 07:19:40 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: References: <51775900.5060103@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Stewart Russell wrote: > Wine runs on a Mac for free, and for a while I ran a small consultancy > from a Mac running Virtual box and XP. > I know, but I was concerned about my 9 yr old being able to launch Steam from Wine. ie., open a terminal, cd to the Steam dir, etc. Crossover also simplifies the install of a lot of necessary components, no? > Seconding getting a drive or some sort of network resource to do Time > Machine. It's really great when it just works. It's a bear when it doesn't, > though; it's a tangle of folders and hard links and OS X file attributes. I > wish there were something that simple for Linux; snapshot is good but > fiddly. > Yeah, that's one thing that worries me about Mac. With Linux, everything is so simple and logical. Someday I am going to have to deal with the whole 'Apple Way' thing in some horrible way. You know what the number one beef with Mac is? The bloody delete key. It does NOT delete, it backspaces! Burn in hell Steve Jobs! No, I'm just kidding, but still. > (Talking of, file attributes are a big thing on OS X, but not so much on > desktop Linux. You will get bitten by the Quarantine attribute - anything > you download has it set, and even chmod +x won't get around it - and a > couple of minutes reading about xattr(1) will be useful.) > > Do you mean when I try and use a downloaded file from my Mac on a Linux box? I hadn't thought of that. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 26 11:23:08 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 07:23:08 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: <20130426024703.GA2021-Cpl6C+benBZfq8cQ1yknNg@public.gmane.org> References: <20130426024703.GA2021@yam.nerd.cx> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 10:47 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman < william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 09:11:27AM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > > >Well, I have a display with HDMI, so that's another adapter I would need. > > Take a look at Monoprice for this kind of thing: > > http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=5311&seq=1&format=2 > > Almost anything you want in the way of cords and adapters are going to > be better priced and will work just as well from them. They do Canada > Post shipping, for $6 for orders under $45. That's really cool, thanks! -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 26 12:03:58 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:03:58 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: References: <51775900.5060103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <517A6D2E.30802@gmail.com> On 13-04-26 07:19 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > > Do you mean when I try and use a downloaded file from my Mac on a Linux > box? I hadn't thought of that. No, not that. Quarantine is the thing that causes the "XXX is an .... downloaded from the Internet. Are you sure you want to run it?" dialogue on any file you download. It has no effect on Linux. It can have a weird and unsuspected effect on some FAT filesystems, but unless you're running CHDK on a Canon camera, you might not see that. What it can do, though, to files from archives you've downloaded and extracted is cause the shell problems with executable files. If the file won't run, but the permissions look like -rwxr-xr-x@, you've got some additional file attributes you might have to clear. It's one of those ?I wish it didn't do that? features. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 26 14:09:15 2013 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 10:09:15 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: <517A6D2E.30802-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <51775900.5060103@gmail.com> <517A6D2E.30802@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 8:03 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 13-04-26 07:19 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > > > > Do you mean when I try and use a downloaded file from my Mac on a Linux > > box? I hadn't thought of that. > > No, not that. Quarantine is the thing that causes the "XXX is an .... > downloaded from the Internet. Are you sure you want to run it?" dialogue > on any file you download. It has no effect on Linux. It can have a weird > and unsuspected effect on some FAT filesystems, but unless you're > running CHDK on a Canon camera, you might not see that. > > What it can do, though, to files from archives you've downloaded and > extracted is cause the shell problems with executable files. If the file > won't run, but the permissions look like -rwxr-xr-x@, you've got some > additional file attributes you might have to clear. > > It's one of those ?I wish it didn't do that? features. > > Ah, okay. Now that reminds me of something else that I just thought of: uninstalling apps. I read this and immediately think 'really?': http://guides.macrumors.com/Uninstalling_Applications_in_Mac_OS_X It's odd that Apple seems to have put zero thought into a process for uninstalling apps in OSX. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 26 14:39:57 2013 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 10:39:57 -0400 Subject: Free software and the Mac In-Reply-To: References: <51775900.5060103@gmail.com> <517A6D2E.30802@gmail.com> Message-ID: Most apps don't need an installer. You just drop them into /Applications. There's no DLL Hell or dependency issues; but you do end up with a lot of code duplication. To delete an app, just delete it from /Applications. To purge it, winkle out the preferences from ~/Library/Application Support (yes, standard paths have spaces in them; ew ew ew) and delete that. If you're installing a driver that came in a pkg file, things can be a bit more fiddly. Worst of the lot is trying to delete a framework (kind of like a library under Unix). Here is where the lack of dependency checking can really bite you. Cheers Stewart On 26 Apr 2013 10:10, "Thomas Milne" wrote: > > > > On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 8:03 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > >> On 13-04-26 07:19 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: >> > >> > Do you mean when I try and use a downloaded file from my Mac on a Linux >> > box? I hadn't thought of that. >> >> No, not that. Quarantine is the thing that causes the "XXX is an .... >> downloaded from the Internet. Are you sure you want to run it?" dialogue >> on any file you download. It has no effect on Linux. It can have a weird >> and unsuspected effect on some FAT filesystems, but unless you're >> running CHDK on a Canon camera, you might not see that. >> >> What it can do, though, to files from archives you've downloaded and >> extracted is cause the shell problems with executable files. If the file >> won't run, but the permissions look like -rwxr-xr-x@, you've got some >> additional file attributes you might have to clear. >> >> It's one of those ?I wish it didn't do that? features. >> >> > Ah, okay. Now that reminds me of something else that I just thought of: > uninstalling apps. > > I read this and immediately think 'really?': > > http://guides.macrumors.com/Uninstalling_Applications_in_Mac_OS_X > > It's odd that Apple seems to have put zero thought into a process for > uninstalling apps in OSX. > > -- > Thomas Milne > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 27 22:40:05 2013 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour, OCT, BSc, MBA) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 22:40:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <691402312.35951852.1367102405027.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed77.prod> LinkedIn ------------ I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Marc Marc Lijour, OCT, BSc, MBA Education Officer, Student Success & Learning to 18, Ministry of Education at Government of Ontario Toronto, Canada Area Confirm that you know Marc Lijour, OCT, BSc, MBA: https://www.linkedin.com/e/74qdsc-hg1dh2u3-5f/isd/12813672220/OAn0JqK4/?hs=false&tok=0MjNzsSesgH5I1 -- You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe: http://www.linkedin.com/e/74qdsc-hg1dh2u3-5f/-wYFR0x2pa1horbaTwQT/goo/tlug%40ss%2Eorg/20061/I4243357498_1/?hs=false&tok=3b9qDP5YwgH5I1 (c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 27 22:44:26 2013 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:44:26 -0400 Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <691402312.35951852.1367102405027.JavaMail.app-eIVH8949xnjGGaSjgbMr0g@public.gmane.org> References: <691402312.35951852.1367102405027.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed77.prod> Message-ID: <517C54CA.9050706@lijour.net> The new LinkedIn is rather agressive... Sorry for the disturbance. I made sure I unselected contacts after I connected my Gmail account. Not sure why it sent anything after that. On Sat 27 Apr 2013 06:40:05 PM EDT, Marc Lijour, OCT, BSc, MBA wrote: > > > LinkedIn > > > > > > > > Marc Lijour, OCT, BSc, MBA > > > > *From Marc Lijour, OCT, BSc, MBA * > > > Education Officer, Student Success & Learning to 18, Ministry of > Education at Government of Ontario > Toronto, Canada Area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. > > - Marc > > > > > > > > > > > Confirm that you know Marc > > > > > > > > > > You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Unsubscribe > > ? 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct. Mountain View, CA > 94043, USA > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 27 22:56:29 2013 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:56:29 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1366846588.6642.YahooMailNeo@web140705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1366925198.7771.YahooMailNeo@web140703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <517C579D.3010206@gmail.com> On 25/04/13 09:22 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > More simply, the people doing the work to prepare the legal filings > reasonably expect to be paid for the work they are doing. > > There's certainly a Catch-22 here, and a troublesome one (albeit > arguably less bad than the original Catch-22 wherein the participants > risked getting killed; they were in the throes of WWII, after all.) > > Filing for bankruptcy requires preparing and filing some set of legal > documents, and if you haven't the money (which is kind of likely, under > the circumstances where you're keen on doing so), it may not be possible > to do so. > > Those of us on this mailing list are presumably reasonably literate (as > we have the habit of reading and writing), which means we could all > imagine preparing those filings ourselves, assuming they aren't too > opaque or counterintuitive. To folks that aren't literate, there's a > big extra dose of scary there. > > The fees aren't obvious as something the government ought to cover. (At > another end of the spectrum, I could see an article in the Sun yapping > about that, to the effect that "Those crazy lefties want to add insult > to injury by having Us Responsible Tax Paying People pay for their > foolishness that led to their bankruptcy. And bankruptcy? We're just > paying those lefties' bills!!!" The Sun is *so* strange...) It's not > obvious to me that the government should pay to perform such filings; > it's not self-evident that any of the levels of government ought to be > properly considered responsible. But at leaves a strange looking gap, > because someone who has had their assets seized to cover debts is > vanishingly unlikely to have terribly much left over. Indeed, the > reason to declare bankruptcy is that one's debts considerably exceed > one's assets; otherwise, it's not worth the trouble. > > Giving the law firm first dibs on any of the last bits of assets is > probably necessary in order for such a system to work, but seems rather > strange from a fairness perspective; it makes them look pretty vulture-like. > > What I *imagine* is better is for this to be the sort of work that a > general purpose law office would do pro-bono, though the tendency to > specialize leads towards this getting dropped out, and pressed into the > place where it is actually seen, namely with firms specializing in it, > which means it *cannot* be done pro-bono, as those people need to eat, > and it's not at all reasonable for their office to have no source of income. There is legal aid. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 28 01:18:18 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 21:18:18 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu-13.04 -- disabling ALL compiz desktop effects? Message-ID: <20130428011818.GA16341@toshiba.localdomain> To Ubuntu experts, It seems that Ubuntu-13.04 is slower than previous releases. How do I turn off all compiz desktop effects? I tried ccsm (CompizConfig Settings Manager), but desktop effects are still in effect. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 28 22:07:58 2013 From: tisdall-DXT9u3ndKiSh7up9GtFB90EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (Tim Tisdall) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 18:07:58 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu-13.04 -- disabling ALL compiz desktop effects? In-Reply-To: <20130428011818.GA16341-g3qfMnKXm6kB9AHHLWeGtNQXobZC6xk2@public.gmane.org> References: <20130428011818.GA16341@toshiba.localdomain> Message-ID: okay.. so I guess I'm going to wait a good while before upgrading. :) I'm afraid to make any changes to compiz because there's a bunch of incompatibilities between Unity and compiz (or at least, the compiz configuration tool). Any time I've made changes I end up losing most of the functionality of the window manager and have a terrible time getting it back. Last time I tried it wasn't too long after a fresh install so I just re-installed Ubuntu and didn't touch it again. So, I'd be very careful before fiddling with settings outside of the "settings" page. On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:18 PM, William Park wrote: > To Ubuntu experts, > > It seems that Ubuntu-13.04 is slower than previous releases. How do I > turn off all compiz desktop effects? I tried ccsm (CompizConfig > Settings Manager), but desktop effects are still in effect. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 28 23:15:21 2013 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 19:15:21 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu-13.04 -- disabling ALL compiz desktop effects? In-Reply-To: References: <20130428011818.GA16341@toshiba.localdomain> Message-ID: <517DAD89.90806@sobac.com> In the past I've run Ubuntu-Tweak, which has just been updated for Ubuntu 13.04: http://blog.ubuntu-tweak.com/2013/04/25/ubuntu-tweak-0-8-4-released.html Looks like it's been improved a lot since I last used it, since Ubuntu 11.04 It had tweaks to add/remove the title bar buttons (Minimize, Maximize, Close) and move them to the left or right side of the window. I thought there might have been settings to remove desktop animation effects, but I don't see them there now. This might be because I'm actually running the Mate desktop environment (which is not without its own problems, but better than Unity). I installed from the .deb file, which had some unsatisfied dependencies. I ran 'sudo apt-get -f install' to fix them, but the first time I ran Ubuntu-Tweak it just hung on the splash screen, so I killed the tasks. It's been running fine since then, tho. Ubuntu-Tweak has a fairly thorough "Janitor" function to remove cache files and unused Apt and kernel files. This might speed up a slow system. But Ubuntu-Tweak seems to detect far more than 'apt-get autoremove' and 'apt-get autoclean' do, so I'm a little leery of damaging my system... --Bob. Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting On 13-04-28 06:07 PM, Tim Tisdall wrote: > okay.. so I guess I'm going to wait a good while before upgrading. :) > > I'm afraid to make any changes to compiz because there's a bunch of > incompatibilities between Unity and compiz (or at least, the compiz > configuration tool). Any time I've made changes I end up losing most of > the functionality of the window manager and have a terrible time getting > it back. Last time I tried it wasn't too long after a fresh install so > I just re-installed Ubuntu and didn't touch it again. So, I'd be very > careful before fiddling with settings outside of the "settings" page. > > > On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:18 PM, William Park > wrote: > > To Ubuntu experts, > > It seems that Ubuntu-13.04 is slower than previous releases. How do I > turn off all compiz desktop effects? I tried ccsm (CompizConfig > Settings Manager), but desktop effects are still in effect. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 28 23:29:25 2013 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 19:29:25 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu-13.04 -- disabling ALL compiz desktop effects? In-Reply-To: <20130428011818.GA16341-g3qfMnKXm6kB9AHHLWeGtNQXobZC6xk2@public.gmane.org> References: <20130428011818.GA16341@toshiba.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130428192925.fa725179e23c0a391d363a2e@eol.ca> On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 21:18:18 -0400 William Park wrote: > To Ubuntu experts, > > It seems that Ubuntu-13.04 is slower than previous releases. How do I > turn off all compiz desktop effects? I tried ccsm (CompizConfig > Settings Manager), but desktop effects are still in effect. > -- > William William, Another window manager? XFCE? FVWM? You must have some choice. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 29 02:24:47 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 23:24:47 -0300 Subject: Ubuntu-13.04 -- disabling ALL compiz desktop effects? In-Reply-To: <20130428192925.fa725179e23c0a391d363a2e-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20130428011818.GA16341@toshiba.localdomain> <20130428192925.fa725179e23c0a391d363a2e@eol.ca> Message-ID: I installed Cinnamon on Ubuntu, and I am very happy with the performance. Since Unity came to life I migrated to Mint. But I need some programs that I couldn't make work on Mint (Lotus Notes, Sametime and so), and got back to Ubuntu. Now I can have Ubuntu with Mint nice window manager... If you want to give a try: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gwendal-lebihan-dev/cinnamon-stable sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install cinnamon Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2013/4/28 Howard Gibson > On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 21:18:18 -0400 > William Park wrote: > > > To Ubuntu experts, > > > > It seems that Ubuntu-13.04 is slower than previous releases. How do I > > turn off all compiz desktop effects? I tried ccsm (CompizConfig > > Settings Manager), but desktop effects are still in effect. > > -- > > William > > William, > > Another window manager? XFCE? FVWM? > > You must have some choice. > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 29 18:47:11 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 14:47:11 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu-13.04 -- disabling ALL compiz desktop effects? In-Reply-To: References: <20130428011818.GA16341@toshiba.localdomain> <20130428192925.fa725179e23c0a391d363a2e@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20130429184711.GA18986@toshiba.localdomain> I thought Cinnamon is being dropped (so I read somewhere...). I don't have any particular attachment to desktop managers. It's just that all these useless desktop effects are sucking up CPU cycles, and grinding down my VMs and my Pentium-M laptop. I downloaded Kubuntu and UbuntuGnome, and they are noticably faster than Ubuntu standard. -- William On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:24:47PM -0300, Mauro Souza wrote: > I installed Cinnamon on Ubuntu, and I am very happy with the performance. > Since Unity came to life I migrated to Mint. But I need some programs that > I couldn't make work on Mint (Lotus Notes, Sametime and so), and got back > to Ubuntu. Now I can have Ubuntu with Mint nice window manager... > If you want to give a try: > > sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gwendal-lebihan-dev/cinnamon-stable > sudo apt-get update > sudo apt-get install cinnamon > > > > > Mauro > http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 > Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. > > > 2013/4/28 Howard Gibson > > > On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 21:18:18 -0400 > > William Park wrote: > > > > > To Ubuntu experts, > > > > > > It seems that Ubuntu-13.04 is slower than previous releases. How do I > > > turn off all compiz desktop effects? I tried ccsm (CompizConfig > > > Settings Manager), but desktop effects are still in effect. > > > -- > > > William > > > > William, > > > > Another window manager? XFCE? FVWM? > > > > You must have some choice. > > > > -- > > Howard Gibson > > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > > howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > > jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 29 19:16:16 2013 From: thoriumbr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mauro Souza) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 16:16:16 -0300 Subject: Ubuntu-13.04 -- disabling ALL compiz desktop effects? In-Reply-To: <20130429184711.GA18986-g3qfMnKXm6kB9AHHLWeGtNQXobZC6xk2@public.gmane.org> References: <20130428011818.GA16341@toshiba.localdomain> <20130428192925.fa725179e23c0a391d363a2e@eol.ca> <20130429184711.GA18986@toshiba.localdomain> Message-ID: Yesterday I upgraded my wife's notebook to Raring, and installed Cinnamon on it. It's a 1GB RAM, Core2 1.8GHz, and runs fine. If you feel that Cinnamon still sucks too many cicles, try XFCE. It's a nice window manager, eats very little, and works. But if you want to go all the way to frugality, install fluxbox. I used it for 2-3 years on my Ubuntu 5.04, ages ago... Takes a little to get used to it, but as soon as you get to know how to make effective use of it, it's pretty good. Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. 2013/4/29 William Park > I thought Cinnamon is being dropped (so I read somewhere...). > > I don't have any particular attachment to desktop managers. It's just > that all these useless desktop effects are sucking up CPU cycles, and > grinding down my VMs and my Pentium-M laptop. > > I downloaded Kubuntu and UbuntuGnome, and they are noticably faster than > Ubuntu standard. > -- > William > > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:24:47PM -0300, Mauro Souza wrote: > > I installed Cinnamon on Ubuntu, and I am very happy with the performance. > > Since Unity came to life I migrated to Mint. But I need some programs > that > > I couldn't make work on Mint (Lotus Notes, Sametime and so), and got back > > to Ubuntu. Now I can have Ubuntu with Mint nice window manager... > > If you want to give a try: > > > > sudo add-apt-repository ppa:gwendal-lebihan-dev/cinnamon-stable > > sudo apt-get update > > sudo apt-get install cinnamon > > > > > > > > > > Mauro > > http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 > > Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. > > > > > > 2013/4/28 Howard Gibson > > > > > On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 21:18:18 -0400 > > > William Park wrote: > > > > > > > To Ubuntu experts, > > > > > > > > It seems that Ubuntu-13.04 is slower than previous releases. How do > I > > > > turn off all compiz desktop effects? I tried ccsm (CompizConfig > > > > Settings Manager), but desktop effects are still in effect. > > > > -- > > > > William > > > > > > William, > > > > > > Another window manager? XFCE? FVWM? > > > > > > You must have some choice. > > > > > > -- > > > Howard Gibson > > > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > > > howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > > > jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 29 19:42:38 2013 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:42:38 -0400 Subject: pop.gmail.com oddity Message-ID: <20130429194238.GA12135@amber> About three or four days ago I started getting the annual "fingerprints do not match" message in my mail logs about pop.gmail.com. So I ran openssl to get the latest google fingerprint, pasted it into my .fetchmailrc, then also updated my certificates with c_hash, and... well, I still have problems, at least occasionally. Sometimes fetchmail can access my gmail account with no problem. But sometimes I still get the error message. What gives? Any ideas? Better yet, any solutions? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 29 22:52:47 2013 From: jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Mcintosh) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 15:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1367275967.55345.YahooMailNeo@web140706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I never thought of that. ? I will read the Toronto Star for a week to find the E-mail address. ? James E. McIntosh jamesemcintosh at yahoo.com? ________________________________ From: Ian Garmaise To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 7:46:52 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey James, have you considered contacting the consumer advocate/ombudsman at the Toronto Star? Ian On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:25 PM, James Mcintosh wrote: I talked to a local company. >? >Declaring bankruptcy costs nearly $3,000. >? >James E. McIntosh >jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > >?From: Dave Cramer >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:32:25 PM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey > > > >Hmmm, I'm not sure they did anything wrong at this point, I just think it's an unreasonable stance on their part. They can have everything he owes them right now, or nothing. Seems to be a no brainer to me, but what do I know. > > >On a related note, I heard that someone in a similar situation went into CIBC, they owed 10k on a visa, offered the bank 2500 and the bank took it.? >They also are on the verge of bankruptcy. However they will have an R9 credit rating which is treated exactly the same as a bankruptcy? >so I question why bother paying them anything, just declare bankruptcy > > >Dave Cramer > > >On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > >Here's something I got from this list a while ago. ?I don't recall who >>originally posted it, but thank you! It's proved helpful for a friend >>who had some billing trouble himself. >> >>> ? ?If your provider is screwing you over, I suggest contacting the CCTS. >>> ? ?Though my provider swore up-and-down there was no way I could get a >>> ? ?refund, a short while after filing an official complaint they refunded >>> ? ?the extra month's charge: >>> >>> ? ?https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/complaints/complaint-form >> >>--Bob. >> >> >> >> >> >>On 13-04-22 05:17 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: >>> My son has a formidable bill with bell due to youthful stupidity. >>> >>> I spoke to bell and said they have three choices >>> >>> 1) he declares bankruptcy and they get 0 >>> 2) he does a consumer debt proposal and they get 50% >>> 3) we negotiate where he pays what he owes them and they cancel the contract >>> >>> He owes around 2k, his cancellation fees are 2k (yes he has 4 phones, don't >>> ask) >>> >>> First off you can't find one person that can deal with this, you have to >>> talk to A/R for negotiating payment, then retention to discuss cancellation. >>> >>> In the end they won't discuss it at all. Any constructive advice would be >>> helpful >>> >>> Dave Cramer >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen < >>> lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 05:00:16PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>>>> Twice. ?;-) >>>>> >>>>> BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was >>>>> an intersection at Michael and Michael. >>>> >>>> The best one I know, is Weber and King in Waterloo/Kithener. ?Weber starts >>>> and ends and king street, and cross it in the middle. ?So there are 3 >>>> intersections of those two streets in about 14km. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Len Sorensen >>>> -- >>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>> >> >> > > > -- ===== Ian Garmaise Consultant Phorix Solutions Group Inc. ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Skype: iantor Toronto: 416.432.2251 NYC: 917.512.9535 http://www.phorixsol.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 29 23:19:52 2013 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 19:19:52 -0400 Subject: pop.gmail.com oddity In-Reply-To: <20130429194238.GA12135@amber> References: <20130429194238.GA12135@amber> Message-ID: <20130429231952.GA20651@amber> It seems that sometimes I get one fingerprint, sometimes another. What gives? Apr 29 14:05:28 amber fetchmail[5737]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: 55:2B:58:4A:12:14:4F:98:1A:E6:C8:A4:08:40:0D:55 Apr 29 14:12:23 amber fetchmail[8268]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: FF:69:18:0D:75:8C:17:61:F5:EF:FC:F9:85:7D:F5:0E Apr 29 14:17:42 amber fetchmail[8357]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: FF:69:18:0D:75:8C:17:61:F5:EF:FC:F9:85:7D:F5:0E Apr 29 17:02:56 amber fetchmail[17769]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: FF:69:18:0D:75:8C:17:61:F5:EF:FC:F9:85:7D:F5:0E Apr 29 17:07:13 amber fetchmail[17790]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: FF:69:18:0D:75:8C:17:61:F5:EF:FC:F9:85:7D:F5:0E Apr 29 17:09:02 amber fetchmail[17862]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: 55:2B:58:4A:12:14:4F:98:1A:E6:C8:A4:08:40:0D:55 Apr 29 17:09:38 amber fetchmail[20276]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: FF:69:18:0D:75:8C:17:61:F5:EF:FC:F9:85:7D:F5:0E Apr 29 19:16:05 amber fetchmail[20643]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: 55:2B:58:4A:12:14:4F:98:1A:E6:C8:A4:08:40:0D:55 -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 29 23:32:35 2013 From: Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Alexander Short) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 19:32:35 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: <1367275967.55345.YahooMailNeo-WXK5sLB/SxivrfWm4H71L5EhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1367275967.55345.YahooMailNeo@web140706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20130429233235.8802457.31451.6469@iovate.com> It's Ellen Roseman and she is amazing. Has he led me twice with various companies. http://www.thestar.com/authors.roseman_ellen.bb.html Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: James Mcintosh Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:53 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Reply To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey I never thought of that. I will read the Toronto Star for a week to find the E-mail address. James E. McIntosh jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org From: Ian Garmaise To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 7:46:52 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey James, have you considered contacting the consumer advocate/ombudsman at the Toronto Star? Ian On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:25 PM, James Mcintosh > wrote: I talked to a local company. Declaring bankruptcy costs nearly $3,000. James E. McIntosh jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org From: Dave Cramer > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:32:25 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey Hmmm, I'm not sure they did anything wrong at this point, I just think it's an unreasonable stance on their part. They can have everything he owes them right now, or nothing. Seems to be a no brainer to me, but what do I know. On a related note, I heard that someone in a similar situation went into CIBC, they owed 10k on a visa, offered the bank 2500 and the bank took it. They also are on the verge of bankruptcy. However they will have an R9 credit rating which is treated exactly the same as a bankruptcy so I question why bother paying them anything, just declare bankruptcy Dave Cramer On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Bob Jonkman > wrote: Here's something I got from this list a while ago. I don't recall who originally posted it, but thank you! It's proved helpful for a friend who had some billing trouble himself. > If your provider is screwing you over, I suggest contacting the CCTS. > Though my provider swore up-and-down there was no way I could get a > refund, a short while after filing an official complaint they refunded > the extra month's charge: > > https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/complaints/complaint-form --Bob. On 13-04-22 05:17 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > My son has a formidable bill with bell due to youthful stupidity. > > I spoke to bell and said they have three choices > > 1) he declares bankruptcy and they get 0 > 2) he does a consumer debt proposal and they get 50% > 3) we negotiate where he pays what he owes them and they cancel the contract > > He owes around 2k, his cancellation fees are 2k (yes he has 4 phones, don't > ask) > > First off you can't find one person that can deal with this, you have to > talk to A/R for negotiating payment, then retention to discuss cancellation. > > In the end they won't discuss it at all. Any constructive advice would be > helpful > > Dave Cramer > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen < > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 05:00:16PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> Twice. ;-) >>> >>> BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was >>> an intersection at Michael and Michael. >> >> The best one I know, is Weber and King in Waterloo/Kithener. Weber starts >> and ends and king street, and cross it in the middle. So there are 3 >> intersections of those two streets in about 14km. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- ===== Ian Garmaise Consultant Phorix Solutions Group Inc. ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Skype: iantor Toronto: 416.432.2251 NYC: 917.512.9535 http://www.phorixsol.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 29 23:38:38 2013 From: Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Alexander Short) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 19:38:38 -0400 Subject: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey In-Reply-To: <20130429233235.8802457.31451.6469-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5175AA77.6040207@sobac.com> <1366759522.90396.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1367275967.55345.YahooMailNeo@web140706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <20130429233235.8802457.31451.6469@iovate.com> Message-ID: <20130429233838.8802457.49666.6471@iovate.com> Dan BlackBerry auto correct. 'has helped' Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: Alexander Short Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 7:33 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org; tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Reply To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey It's Ellen Roseman and she is amazing. Has he led me twice with various companies. http://www.thestar.com/authors.roseman_ellen.bb.html Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: James Mcintosh Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 6:53 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Reply To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey I never thought of that. I will read the Toronto Star for a week to find the E-mail address. James E. McIntosh jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org From: Ian Garmaise To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 7:46:52 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey James, have you considered contacting the consumer advocate/ombudsman at the Toronto Star? Ian On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 7:25 PM, James Mcintosh > wrote: I talked to a local company. Declaring bankruptcy costs nearly $3,000. James E. McIntosh jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org From: Dave Cramer > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:32:25 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Was Cutting the Cord, Getting rid of the monkey Hmmm, I'm not sure they did anything wrong at this point, I just think it's an unreasonable stance on their part. They can have everything he owes them right now, or nothing. Seems to be a no brainer to me, but what do I know. On a related note, I heard that someone in a similar situation went into CIBC, they owed 10k on a visa, offered the bank 2500 and the bank took it. They also are on the verge of bankruptcy. However they will have an R9 credit rating which is treated exactly the same as a bankruptcy so I question why bother paying them anything, just declare bankruptcy Dave Cramer On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Bob Jonkman > wrote: Here's something I got from this list a while ago. I don't recall who originally posted it, but thank you! It's proved helpful for a friend who had some billing trouble himself. > If your provider is screwing you over, I suggest contacting the CCTS. > Though my provider swore up-and-down there was no way I could get a > refund, a short while after filing an official complaint they refunded > the extra month's charge: > > https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/complaints/complaint-form --Bob. On 13-04-22 05:17 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > My son has a formidable bill with bell due to youthful stupidity. > > I spoke to bell and said they have three choices > > 1) he declares bankruptcy and they get 0 > 2) he does a consumer debt proposal and they get 50% > 3) we negotiate where he pays what he owes them and they cancel the contract > > He owes around 2k, his cancellation fees are 2k (yes he has 4 phones, don't > ask) > > First off you can't find one person that can deal with this, you have to > talk to A/R for negotiating payment, then retention to discuss cancellation. > > In the end they won't discuss it at all. Any constructive advice would be > helpful > > Dave Cramer > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen < > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 05:00:16PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> Twice. ;-) >>> >>> BTW, way out in Whitby, near where my outlaws used to live there was >>> an intersection at Michael and Michael. >> >> The best one I know, is Weber and King in Waterloo/Kithener. Weber starts >> and ends and king street, and cross it in the middle. So there are 3 >> intersections of those two streets in about 14km. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- ===== Ian Garmaise Consultant Phorix Solutions Group Inc. ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Skype: iantor Toronto: 416.432.2251 NYC: 917.512.9535 http://www.phorixsol.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 10:13:56 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 06:13:56 -0400 Subject: pop.gmail.com oddity In-Reply-To: <20130429231952.GA20651@amber> References: <20130429194238.GA12135@amber> <20130429231952.GA20651@amber> Message-ID: <20130430101356.GB25062@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 07:19:52PM -0400, Peter King wrote > It seems that sometimes I get one fingerprint, sometimes another. What gives? > > Apr 29 14:05:28 amber fetchmail[5737]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: 55:2B:58:4A:12:14:4F:98:1A:E6:C8:A4:08:40:0D:55 > Apr 29 14:12:23 amber fetchmail[8268]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: FF:69:18:0D:75:8C:17:61:F5:EF:FC:F9:85:7D:F5:0E > Apr 29 14:17:42 amber fetchmail[8357]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: FF:69:18:0D:75:8C:17:61:F5:EF:FC:F9:85:7D:F5:0E > Apr 29 17:02:56 amber fetchmail[17769]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: FF:69:18:0D:75:8C:17:61:F5:EF:FC:F9:85:7D:F5:0E > Apr 29 17:07:13 amber fetchmail[17790]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: FF:69:18:0D:75:8C:17:61:F5:EF:FC:F9:85:7D:F5:0E > Apr 29 17:09:02 amber fetchmail[17862]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: 55:2B:58:4A:12:14:4F:98:1A:E6:C8:A4:08:40:0D:55 > Apr 29 17:09:38 amber fetchmail[20276]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: FF:69:18:0D:75:8C:17:61:F5:EF:FC:F9:85:7D:F5:0E > Apr 29 19:16:05 amber fetchmail[20643]: pop.gmail.com key fingerprint: 55:2B:58:4A:12:14:4F:98:1A:E6:C8:A4:08:40:0D:55 "nslookup" shows what appears to be a round-robin load-balancing setup. This is consistent with what you've been seeing. [d531][waltdnes][~] nslookup pop.gmail.com Server: 192.168.123.254 Address: 192.168.123.254#53 Non-authoritative answer: pop.gmail.com canonical name = gmail-pop.l.google.com. Name: gmail-pop.l.google.com Address: 74.125.133.109 Name: gmail-pop.l.google.com Address: 74.125.133.108 Suggestions... 1) can you set up your system to accept either of the 2 fingerprints? 2) failing that, can you hardcode one of the above 2 IP addresses as "pop.gmail.com" in your hosts file? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 13:50:44 2013 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:50:44 -0400 Subject: pop.gmail.com oddity In-Reply-To: <20130429194238.GA12135@amber> References: <20130429194238.GA12135@amber> Message-ID: <517FCC34.9010308@utoronto.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 29/04/13 03:42 PM, Peter King wrote: > About three or four days ago I started getting the annual "fingerprints do > not match" message in my mail logs about pop.gmail.com. So I ran openssl to > get the latest google fingerprint, pasted it into my .fetchmailrc, then also > updated my certificates with c_hash, and... well, I still have problems, at > least occasionally. Sometimes fetchmail can access my gmail account with no > problem. But sometimes I still get the error message. What gives? Any ideas? > Better yet, any solutions? It looks like you can ignore the sslfingerprint if you use '--sslcertck' per this issue on the fetchmail bugtracker: http://developer.berlios.de/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=16000&group_id=1824 Find the comment that starts with 'Two things: 1a. sslfingerprint is unnecessary' Does this help? Cheers, Jamon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRf8wyAAoJEDJp9n+rTckFzCAP/RWQ1znqgQpqdGot2WmrIDa0 +OWLOSByPo2i7cW1yQe1nFkAvDjeKdkwT7xyG5uFh+dZH+a6rsotSkKatPrFK6Gw v00wKBtKNLFIqquIwUDe9haWw5ggje+AJaBC0VLiSYzIV+JC1vAFrCuhpy15QpmG ycU2yCjSvqNBu7UszH6TdIUHatPRrkOftDcSKfktkvY6Oc9PQyVVmquahVW0f5hE eqrPTnLiaMTxfT1qCUrMk4fLBQR23TfAM3reWugUK5F95j+6S8YQ4LVTeRCVwtE/ jrUGu/fm9maigSFpAaZGTzVn9C6vOj2CQbqZbWW6lUcHZcRjnd67tOx0sRag1YnY yITHpX6kaRFcQ6Z9GiHsd6PORm3GYktpbkarddc0+nxiggcnfR5wungU08UK59/d uEhTscoVLf74TQyce/Eut9Phf87y66grdjIUUOlAsXy/PQhBx3jcgHkxbeDWBxcy 7SY/+Fc6JCOc5zACGnCkAJ2TDCKKdjSdDgCo6bFHAHJu0hr06S4JNPQclZD4k9Dc 4PKPcCM98szjqNGSXiddDMyRVmN2hehp7stDAL8xHt00JGokSNUIQjh+LbxaKNmK sKFXl1qxUaZhv03rz55zjQAgT6wKUaTv+28/yvWRwmgt8BtcLz2XSxZL4GxVKHM+ ZCb8cgxTLCFcFHyHhyL9 =bGss -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 13:57:39 2013 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio Sun) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 09:57:39 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu-13.04 -- disabling ALL compiz desktop effects? In-Reply-To: References: <20130428011818.GA16341@toshiba.localdomain> <20130428192925.fa725179e23c0a391d363a2e@eol.ca> <20130429184711.GA18986@toshiba.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Mauro Souza wrote: > If you feel that Cinnamon still sucks too many cicles, try XFCE. It's a > nice window manager, eats very little, and works. But if you want to go all > the way to frugality, install fluxbox. I used it for 2-3 years on my Ubuntu > 5.04, ages ago... Takes a little to get used to it, but as soon as you get > to know how to make effective use of it, it's pretty good. > +1 for fluxbox. Good for Desktop, within VM, or even remote X sessions. Extremely fast and very configurable. And, extremely stable too. I've been using it for nearly 10 years, and seldom need to "revert" to whatever Desktop manager that comes by default. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 14:45:56 2013 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio Sun) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 10:45:56 -0400 Subject: About the Android Emulator Message-ID: Hi, Anyone here has some experiences with the Android Emulator? Can it behave like true Emulator like VirtureBox for PC? I mean, can I use it in such a way that I have a "real" Android device sitting on my desktop? I don't care about calling but I want to install some Android apps that only available for Android device, and according to my reading, it seems to be troublesome. Please share your experience/knowledge Thanks Antonio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 15:48:04 2013 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 11:48:04 -0400 Subject: About the Android Emulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Antonio Sun wrote: > Hi, > > Anyone here has some experiences with the Android Emulator? Can it behave > like true Emulator like VirtureBox for PC? > > I mean, can I use it in such a way that I have a "real" Android device > sitting on my desktop? I don't care about calling but I want to install some > Android apps that only available for Android device, and according to my > reading, it seems to be troublesome. Yes and no. Many apps will run fine (if a bit slow) in the emulator, but there are some that are difficult (if not impossible) to get working. I remember that back in the early days, getting Google's Market app to work was possible but I'm not sure if the same is true of Google Play (the new "Market"). If you want to run 3D accelerated apps/games you'll need an Intel processor. I discovered this after getting my Ouya Dev console back in December/January... my dev machines are amd64-based. :-( It's not terribly difficult to setup the emulator (networking aside, though that may be easier to setup these days). My recommendation would simply be to give it a try and see if it works for your needs. -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 15:57:20 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 11:57:20 -0400 Subject: About the Android Emulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130430155720.GA28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:45:56AM -0400, Antonio Sun wrote: > Anyone here has some experiences with the Android Emulator? Can it behave > like true Emulator like VirtureBox for PC? > > I mean, can I use it in such a way that I have a "real" Android device > sitting on my desktop? I don't care about calling but I want to install > some Android apps that only available for Android device, and according to > my reading, it seems to be troublesome. > > Please share your experience/knowledge I saw it in use a few days ago. It has limited networking (no ICMP, only sockets like UDP and TCP it seems), and it often hangs if there is too much network traffic. It would seem it is not an emulator of a true device, but rather tries to emulate most of the core so that an app will run on top of it and think it is on a real device. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 16:24:26 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 12:24:26 -0400 Subject: Supper at Panera Bread? Message-ID: As previous noted GTALug is looking for a replacement pre-meeting gathering place for Salad King (good food, good prices, but too loud). In previous discussions the following have been noted as possible replacements: =================================== - Tim Hortons - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas Ground floor (entrance off Victoria) - Basic, reliable - Food court - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 3rd floor - Good range of inexpensive food, didn't seem that crowded about 7 PM - Panera Bread - N/W corner Yonge & Edward. - Sandwiches, soup, & pasta. Has 2nd floor eating area - Pickle Barrel - Atrium on Bay - N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Good all round spot - Hard Rock Cafe - On Yonge, just south of Dundas Square - Touristy but otherwise has possibilities - Swiss Chalet - Yonge just north of Gould west side - Basic, reliable - Spring Sushi - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 5th floor - Didn't see dining room, but menu looks interesting - Spring Roll - Atrium on Bay N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Seemed a bit busy but has possibilities. - Kabab Grill, Yonge & Gerard (middle eastern) -- good reviews, meat and veggie variety, has upstairs seating that could be talked into reserving a spot for regulars. - Donair Kebab House, same area -- ditto except for the upstairs - Yueh Tung, Dundas @ Elizabeth ====================================== So, I am wondering if there would be some other people who would be willing to meet me at Panera Bread this evening at 6:00 PM to do a mini-review for the group? Basically we want to start reducing the above list to something manageable from which to make a final choice. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 16:47:45 2013 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 12:47:45 -0400 Subject: Supper at Panera Bread? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1367340465.1791.98.camel@bliss.ss.org> Colin, Have you looked on Church Street? Some interesting places there and they are not all Gay Bars! On Tue, 2013-04-30 at 12:24 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > As previous noted GTALug is looking for a replacement pre-meeting > gathering place for Salad King (good food, good prices, but too loud). > In previous discussions the following have been noted as possible > replacements: > > =================================== > > - Tim Hortons - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas Ground floor (entrance off > Victoria) - Basic, reliable > - Food court - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 3rd floor - Good range of > inexpensive food, didn't seem that crowded about 7 PM > - Panera Bread - N/W corner Yonge & Edward. - Sandwiches, soup, & > pasta. Has 2nd floor eating area > - Pickle Barrel - Atrium on Bay - N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Good all > round spot > - Hard Rock Cafe - On Yonge, just south of Dundas Square - Touristy > but otherwise has possibilities > - Swiss Chalet - Yonge just north of Gould west side - Basic, reliable > - Spring Sushi - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 5th floor - Didn't see > dining room, but menu looks interesting > - Spring Roll - Atrium on Bay N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Seemed a bit > busy but has possibilities. > - Kabab Grill, Yonge & Gerard (middle eastern) -- good reviews, meat > and veggie variety, has upstairs seating that could be talked into > reserving a spot for regulars. > - Donair Kebab House, same area -- ditto except for the upstairs > - Yueh Tung, Dundas @ Elizabeth > > ====================================== > > So, I am wondering if there would be some other people who would be > willing to meet me at Panera Bread this evening at 6:00 PM to do a > mini-review for the group? > > Basically we want to start reducing the above list to something > manageable from which to make a final choice. > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 16:56:36 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 12:56:36 -0400 Subject: Supper at Panera Bread? In-Reply-To: <1367340465.1791.98.camel-Cc8bTzyuDCFg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <1367340465.1791.98.camel@bliss.ss.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Maureen wrote: > Colin, > Have you looked on Church Street? Some interesting places there and > they are not all Gay Bars! To be honest, I've not looked at Church Street. But right now our problem is too many very reasonable looking choices, and ... I'd like to see us contracting the list of options not expanding them (even if this means we might miss the "perfect" option...). > On Tue, 2013-04-30 at 12:24 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >> As previous noted GTALug is looking for a replacement pre-meeting >> gathering place for Salad King (good food, good prices, but too loud). >> In previous discussions the following have been noted as possible >> replacements: >> >> =================================== >> >> - Tim Hortons - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas Ground floor (entrance off >> Victoria) - Basic, reliable >> - Food court - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 3rd floor - Good range of >> inexpensive food, didn't seem that crowded about 7 PM >> - Panera Bread - N/W corner Yonge & Edward. - Sandwiches, soup, & >> pasta. Has 2nd floor eating area >> - Pickle Barrel - Atrium on Bay - N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Good all >> round spot >> - Hard Rock Cafe - On Yonge, just south of Dundas Square - Touristy >> but otherwise has possibilities >> - Swiss Chalet - Yonge just north of Gould west side - Basic, reliable >> - Spring Sushi - N/E corner Yonge & Dundas 5th floor - Didn't see >> dining room, but menu looks interesting >> - Spring Roll - Atrium on Bay N/W corner Yonge & Dundas - Seemed a bit >> busy but has possibilities. >> - Kabab Grill, Yonge & Gerard (middle eastern) -- good reviews, meat >> and veggie variety, has upstairs seating that could be talked into >> reserving a spot for regulars. >> - Donair Kebab House, same area -- ditto except for the upstairs >> - Yueh Tung, Dundas @ Elizabeth >> >> ====================================== >> >> So, I am wondering if there would be some other people who would be >> willing to meet me at Panera Bread this evening at 6:00 PM to do a >> mini-review for the group? >> >> Basically we want to start reducing the above list to something >> manageable from which to make a final choice. >> >> >> Colin McGregor >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 17:19:44 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 13:19:44 -0400 Subject: ReleasePartyWheezy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Is there anyone in the GTA organizing a release party for the new > Debian release Wheezy > (http://bits.debian.org/2013/04/release-date.html)? > > If not is there anyone interested in helping to put together such a party? To follow-up, I did ask if the spot that was used for the recent Ubuntu release party would be an option, and the answer was no (they are closed on Sunday). It was suggested that we look at C'est What (where the Open Street Map people meet) and I haven't yet looked into that. Other ideas? Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 17:28:20 2013 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 13:28:20 -0400 Subject: ReleasePartyWheezy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 30 April 2013 13:19, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Is there anyone in the GTA organizing a release party for the new >> Debian release Wheezy >> (http://bits.debian.org/2013/04/release-date.html)? >> >> If not is there anyone interested in helping to put together such a party? > > To follow-up, I did ask if the spot that was used for the recent > Ubuntu release party would be an option, and the answer was no (they > are closed on Sunday). It was suggested that we look at C'est What > (where the Open Street Map people meet) and I haven't yet looked into > that. Other ideas? C'est What has great beer and good food, but I have no idea about their availability. I would vote for them, but my vote shouldn't carry much weight because I'm fairly sure I won't make the party. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 17:36:11 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 13:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: decent mega-monitor? Message-ID: There is a slow move towards talking about supporting "4k" HD TV. This seems to mean 3840 x 2160 pixels (up from 1920 x 1080). You hear of prices like $20k for TV sets. Here's a startlingly low price: Only $1,499.97 for 50" 3840 x 2160 display. Specs: That sounds like a lot of money for a monitor but it isn't much more than a 30" 2560 x 1600. Does anybody know if this actually makes a good computer monitor for a conventional desktop? I've noticed that some TVs look inferior as computer desktop monitors, even though their specs look appropriate. The refresh rate is probably not good enough. The monitor is fed by an HDMI 1.4 monitor and I understand that the HDMI standard doesn't have enough bandwidth to drive this resolution at more than 30Hz. Apparently the next HDMI standard will improve this. The display can refresh at 120Hz at lower resolution. This limitation seems to be reported in the specs: the top resolution for component and HDMI is listed as "4k2k 30Hz". Note: one of the user comments says that it does work at 120Hz at full resolution. So I'm confused. The top VGA resolution listed is 3840 x 2160 (with no mention of refresh rate). What VGA interface would drive that? In my experience, VGA isn't great for LCDs because the two sides don't share a clock and this leads to unpleasant artifacts. This probably uses TN technology since that isn't specified (if it were IPS, that would be mentioned). TN makes viewing angle critical and with a desktop monitor that big, only a portion of the screen would be in the sweet spot. Mind you, the specs say 176 degree viewing angles, horizontally and virtically. This review damns it with faint praise as a TV. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 17:47:38 2013 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 13:47:38 -0400 Subject: decent mega-monitor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interesting! this should hopefully support seeing other tv/monitors of 4k res. come down in price. I wonder if a current high end nvidia card would drive this beast? I can only hope they are twice the quality (in say a year), and similar price, grab 2, portrait mount them as a dual monitor set up and get a nice 4320x3840 desktop. No mention if 3d capable? reviews at the tiger url seem favourable. Given this price I am definitely not getting another 1080p tv , clearly wait for the 4k now. -tl On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 1:36 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > There is a slow move towards talking about supporting "4k" HD TV. This > seems to mean 3840 x 2160 pixels (up from 1920 x 1080). You hear of > prices like $20k for TV sets. Here's a startlingly low price: > < > http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7674736&CatId=4717 > > > Only $1,499.97 for 50" 3840 x 2160 display. > > Specs: > < > http://static.highspeedbackbone.net/pdf/Seiki%20SE50UY04%204K2K%20LED%20HDTV%20Data%20Sheet.pdf > > > > That sounds like a lot of money for a monitor but it isn't much more > than a 30" 2560 x 1600. > > Does anybody know if this actually makes a good computer monitor for a > conventional desktop? I've noticed that some TVs look inferior as > computer desktop monitors, even though their specs look appropriate. > > The refresh rate is probably not good enough. The monitor is fed by > an HDMI 1.4 monitor and I understand that the HDMI standard doesn't > have enough bandwidth to drive this resolution at more than 30Hz. > Apparently the next HDMI standard will improve this. The display can > refresh at 120Hz at lower resolution. This limitation seems to be > reported in the specs: the top resolution for component and HDMI is > listed as "4k2k 30Hz". Note: one of the user comments says that it > does work at 120Hz at full resolution. So I'm confused. > > The top VGA resolution listed is 3840 x 2160 (with no mention of > refresh rate). What VGA interface would drive that? In my > experience, VGA isn't great for LCDs because the two sides don't share > a clock and this leads to unpleasant artifacts. > > This probably uses TN technology since that isn't specified (if it > were IPS, that would be mentioned). TN makes viewing angle critical > and with a desktop monitor that big, only a portion of the screen > would be in the sweet spot. Mind you, the specs say 176 degree > viewing angles, horizontally and virtically. > > This review damns it with faint praise as a TV. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 17:55:10 2013 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 13:55:10 -0400 Subject: Hard drives... Message-ID: As noted, there is a new release of Debian GNU-Linux coming up this weekend and with that in mind I bought myself a new 2TB hard drive (to replace an almost full 1TB drive) and copied everything over (Knoppix + gparted + grub-install are your (sometimes painfully slow) friends). I bought a 2TB Western Digital "Black" hard drive and a significant reason for that choice was the 5 year warranty even though for less money I could have bought a 3TB Seagate "Barracuda" drive with a 2 year warranty. Obviously, even with a 5 year warranty, the drive could die tomorrow, but still... I am figuring that even with good back-ups the time/pain to recover from a drive failure is worth FAR more than the difference in drive costs. So, I have to ask where is there a market for drives with such as the Seagate "Barracuda"? Is it: - Install in RAID 5 or RAID 10 arrays that are designed to deal with the failure of a single drive in a way that is fairly painless? - Install in a desktop office setting where all key data is stored on a central server and in the event of a drive failure the desktop machine gets re-imaged with the default corporate desktop? - Local PC builders where they assume the buyers will not notice that @#$% drives are being included in the package? Or am I missing something else? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 18:06:32 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:06:32 -0400 Subject: decent mega-monitor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130430180632.GB28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 01:36:11PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > There is a slow move towards talking about supporting "4k" HD TV. This > seems to mean 3840 x 2160 pixels (up from 1920 x 1080). You hear of > prices like $20k for TV sets. Here's a startlingly low price: > > Only $1,499.97 for 50" 3840 x 2160 display. > > Specs: > > > That sounds like a lot of money for a monitor but it isn't much more > than a 30" 2560 x 1600. > > Does anybody know if this actually makes a good computer monitor for a > conventional desktop? I've noticed that some TVs look inferior as > computer desktop monitors, even though their specs look appropriate. > > The refresh rate is probably not good enough. The monitor is fed by > an HDMI 1.4 monitor and I understand that the HDMI standard doesn't > have enough bandwidth to drive this resolution at more than 30Hz. > Apparently the next HDMI standard will improve this. The display can > refresh at 120Hz at lower resolution. This limitation seems to be > reported in the specs: the top resolution for component and HDMI is > listed as "4k2k 30Hz". Note: one of the user comments says that it > does work at 120Hz at full resolution. So I'm confused. > > The top VGA resolution listed is 3840 x 2160 (with no mention of > refresh rate). What VGA interface would drive that? In my > experience, VGA isn't great for LCDs because the two sides don't share > a clock and this leads to unpleasant artifacts. > > This probably uses TN technology since that isn't specified (if it > were IPS, that would be mentioned). TN makes viewing angle critical > and with a desktop monitor that big, only a portion of the screen > would be in the sweet spot. Mind you, the specs say 176 degree > viewing angles, horizontally and virtically. Yeah I noticed. Hmm. > This review damns it with faint praise as a TV. > So it seems, if you have a use for 4kx2k resolution, then it's a cheap way to get it. If you just want a 50" TV, then there are a lot of cheaper options with better colour and picture quality as longas you are OK with normal full HD resolution. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 18:09:57 2013 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 14:09:57 -0400 Subject: Hard drives... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130430180957.GC28284@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 01:55:10PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > As noted, there is a new release of Debian GNU-Linux coming up this > weekend and with that in mind I bought myself a new 2TB hard drive (to > replace an almost full 1TB drive) and copied everything over (Knoppix > + gparted + grub-install are your (sometimes painfully slow) friends). > > I bought a 2TB Western Digital "Black" hard drive and a significant > reason for that choice was the 5 year warranty even though for less > money I could have bought a 3TB Seagate "Barracuda" drive with a 2 > year warranty. Obviously, even with a 5 year warranty, the drive could > die tomorrow, but still... I am figuring that even with good back-ups > the time/pain to recover from a drive failure is worth FAR more than > the difference in drive costs. > > So, I have to ask where is there a market for drives with such as the > Seagate "Barracuda"? Is it: > > - Install in RAID 5 or RAID 10 arrays that are designed to deal with > the failure of a single drive in a way that is fairly painless? Probably not a good idea, given they are not likely to respond in a RAID friendly way to read errors. > - Install in a desktop office setting where all key data is stored on > a central server and in the event of a drive failure the desktop > machine gets re-imaged with the default corporate desktop? Why would such a setup even need 500GB? I would put a smaller more reliable drive in such a machine, because reimaging takes enough time to kill any savings you could possibly get on the drive. > - Local PC builders where they assume the buyers will not notice that > @#$% drives are being included in the package? This one is big. 3TB is better than 2TB right? And $100 is better than $150 for the same size. Most consumers have no idea that there is a quality difference. They just want more for less. > Or am I missing something else? Probably not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 20:33:33 2013 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 16:33:33 -0400 Subject: Hard drives... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130430203333.GA23684@node1.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 01:55:10PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > So, I have to ask where is there a market for drives with such as the > Seagate "Barracuda"? Is it: > > - Install in RAID 5 or RAID 10 arrays that are designed to deal with > the failure of a single drive in a way that is fairly painless? > - Install in a desktop office setting where all key data is stored on > a central server and in the event of a drive failure the desktop > machine gets re-imaged with the default corporate desktop? > - Local PC builders where they assume the buyers will not notice that > @#$% drives are being included in the package? > > Or am I missing something else? 1 drive is always better than 2, so consolidating your disks makes sense. Eg. 10 x 1TB Raid5 gives you the same 9TB as 4 x 3TB Raid5, but keep in mind that most motherboard has 6 SATA ports and most case has 6 x 3.5" bays. Just don't buy WD Green. :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 20:37:07 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 16:37:07 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord Part 2: The Waiting Message-ID: So I'm now in the transition. Rogers has now sent me two "sorry to see you go" pieces of mail, and I gave an exit interview in return for a promise of a $15 Shoppers Drug card. It appears that Rogers can' t differetiate between "cancelling a service" and "leaving the company". Though I still have (and am reasonably happy with) my mobile service, all of communications have taken the form of "we're sorry you're leaving us". Rogers now asks repeatedly if there is any deal they could make that would keep me. Whenever asked my response has been consistent. "You had your chance to keep me when I was punted to the retention department the day I indicated my intention to cancel last week. You should have taken your best shot then; I'm not into haggling. Having rejected that offer, at that point I signed up with an alternate service that gave me a superior deal." My FTTN modem/router has arrived. They refused to deliver it to the door, it had to be picked up at a post office of my choosing. It's a Sagemcom 2864, plastered all over with Bell branding; it's apparently called the Bell "Connection Hub". Too-sparse manuals included, awaiting the Bell tech setup next week. Given that I'm going from Cable to DSL I have the luxury of a two week transition period of having both Internets up. I've taken delivery of a new server meant to do the double role of Plex Server and MythTV. This presents some questions I will offer in the next message. I've also taken a greater interest in OTA reception, and may even build my own antenna. It appears the homebuilds are cheap to do and generally out perform the commercial stuff, whether a big rigor a little indoor job . And (relevant here) the designs are GPL'd! -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 20:57:03 2013 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 16:57:03 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord Part 3: Which 'Buntu for the Media Server? Message-ID: So... to help serve up all this video to replace the outgoing Rogers cruft, I figured I could spend a little on a media server that would keep up. The main purposes of the box are to run - Plex (streaming and transcoding) - A MythTV config that would "rip" off the air broadcasts into a format recognized by the Plex server and allow the STBs to do some occasional live watching too, - Assorted script-based (mostly Python) for fetching various other Internet resources of interest - Possibly running a US proxy for Hulu etc - Probably Samba services - Maybe, just maybe, acting as my desktop if there's enough spare horses Basic spec of the box is an i7 3.4GHz, 8GB RAM, 60GB SSD for the OS and 3TB disk for the data (to start). So I have some questions of this sage group, since it's been so long since I've had to choose "which OS". I need to stay in the *buntu family because of the Plex support, but for a system of this type, but some questions remain: 1. Am I better to load Mythbuntu and then add Plex and the other stuff? Or start with Xubuntu and then add Mythbuntu, Plex and the scripts? 2. LTS or the twice-yearly track? How often does the LTS distro update third-party apps such as Myth? 3. For these purposes, how much benefit exists in using 64-bit (AMD64) verusus the standard install? I've never done a 64-bit install yet. Any answers are much appreciated. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 21:59:15 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 17:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Supper at Panera Bread? In-Reply-To: References: <1367340465.1791.98.camel@bliss.ss.org> Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor Thanks for working on this crucial problem. The future of TLUG depends on it (I'm only 1/4 joking). | On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Maureen wrote: | > Have you looked on Church Street? Some interesting places there and | > they are not all Gay Bars! | | To be honest, I've not looked at Church Street. But right now our | problem is too many very reasonable looking choices, and ... I'd like | to see us contracting the list of options not expanding them (even if | this means we might miss the "perfect" option...). I don't see any outstanding restaurants in the current list. I'm certainly not saying that I could do better (I had suggested Salad King and was then aghast at the hubub). But if Maureen (or anyone else) can find some better candidates on Church, I'm all for it. Ryersonians and ex-Ryersonians: surely you have some inside knowledge that you could share. PS: did you know that Ryerson started as the Toronto Normal School? Do you really think TLUG belongs there? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 22:14:26 2013 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 18:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: deal on netbook for Linux [was Re:Ability to buy bare machines. (Was: PC with a GPL'd OS pre-installed)] In-Reply-To: <5140C0F8.9020700-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <513F8393.5090305@ss.org> <20130312200453.e55df9ce658243581301e334@eol.ca> <5140C0F8.9020700@ss.org> Message-ID: | From: Scott Sullivan | Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:10:00 -0400 | Subject: [TLUG]: Ability to buy bare machines. (Was: PC with a GPL'd OS | pre-installed) | On the above point, when selling hardware that bundles an OS, that alright if | that's your business model and it's free. But if the OS is not free, I want | the option not to take it. The Chromebooks might haev a free OS. I don't know which meaning of free you meant. Most Chromebooks are chained to Chromeos by tiny details like BIOSes. Possibly the worst Chromebook available in Canada (there are only two) is the Acer C7. It's on sale until Thursday for $230 if you pay cash ($229.99 if you use charge cards or the like). It's actually a pretty nice netbook: decent "Celeron" processor (much better than an Atom) and 320G HDD. Neither of those seem like great choices for ChromeOS but do seem good for conventional Linux notebook loads. Physically, the C7 is quite nice and slim (for a notebook). I played a bit with one in a Future Shop. There are lots of things on the net about how to load Ubuntu on it. Arch might also be a good choice. Every time you boot a Linuxed version, you get told that the system is corrupted and you have to wait 30 seconds or hit CTRL-D. A minor annoyance. No USB 3. Does have HDMI out. 1366x768 is better than most netbooks 2G of RAM is better than most netbooks. Not sure what the upgrade limit is. The battery life is about 4 hours, not great for a Chromebook. Apparently you can find a larger battery for it (US$50, in the US). The Canadian one has the bilingual keyboard that confuses my fingers. I decided that it isn't enough of a step up from my Acer Aspire One ao522 netbook to bother. But I'm tempted. (That netbook cost the same $230 two years ago.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 22:55:12 2013 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 18:55:12 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu-13.04 -- disabling ALL compiz desktop effects? In-Reply-To: References: <20130428011818.GA16341@toshiba.localdomain> <20130428192925.fa725179e23c0a391d363a2e@eol.ca> <20130429184711.GA18986@toshiba.localdomain> Message-ID: <20130430225511.GA5582@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 09:57:39AM -0400, Antonio Sun wrote > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Mauro Souza wrote: > > > If you feel that Cinnamon still sucks too many cicles, try XFCE. It's a > > nice window manager, eats very little, and works. But if you want to go all > > the way to frugality, install fluxbox. I used it for 2-3 years on my Ubuntu > > 5.04, ages ago... Takes a little to get used to it, but as soon as you get > > to know how to make effective use of it, it's pretty good. > > > > +1 for fluxbox. Good for Desktop, within VM, or even remote X sessions. > Extremely fast and very configurable. And, extremely stable too. I've been > using it for nearly 10 years, and seldom need to "revert" to whatever > Desktop manager that comes by default. Ditto for ICEWM, which I use. There are several lightweight WMs that are very usable on netbooks. See https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Window_Manager for a partial list. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 23:33:07 2013 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 19:33:07 -0400 Subject: Cutting the Cord Part 3: Which 'Buntu for the Media Server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Possibly running a US proxy for Hulu etc I use sshuttle[1] to a Linodes hosted in Newark to access Hulu and U.S. Netflix (a larger catalogue than the Canadian one) and one hosted in London (U.K.) to get access to iPlayer and Spotify. But you can be super cool if you use a Tor[2] Proxy to a U.S. based end (or maybe exit) node. The only issue is that you would have to remember to turn it off or your Internet speeds will be negatively affected. I just use my old MacBook Pro. I find using the MythTV, Plex, etc. to be to cumbersome. [1]: https://github.com/apenwarr/sshuttle [2]: https://www.torproject.org/ [3]: http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/black-hat-seo-tools/8225-how-get-us-ip-addresses-tor.html -- Myles Braithwaite -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 30 23:41:52 2013 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2013 19:41:52 -0400 Subject: About the Android Emulator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: First you can't really install anything from the Google Play store on the stock Google Android Emulator. But lets say you have access to the APK[1] file of the application you want to run. You can load it on the stock Android Emulator[2]. Now the Android Emulator was really designed to be run by developers so pretty much every logging/debugging application is running which will most likely slow down your application (especially if it's a 3D game). I tried to play Temple Run 2 and it horrible. BlueStack[3] is a (proprietary) project that is trying to bring Android apps to the desktop natively but it currently in beta and only available on Windows, Mac, and Windows 8. I tried to play Angry Birds and it wasn't horrible but not great (comparing it to playing the native version on my Mac). [1]: [2]: [3]: On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Antonio Sun wrote: > Hi, > > Anyone here has some experiences with the Android Emulator? Can it behave > like true Emulator like VirtureBox for PC? > > I mean, can I use it in such a way that I have a "real" Android device > sitting on my desktop? I don't care about calling but I want to install some > Android apps that only available for Android device, and according to my > reading, it seems to be troublesome. > > Please share your experience/knowledge > > Thanks > > Antonio > > -- Myles Braithwaite -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists