From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 1 00:37:22 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 20:37:22 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd be curious as to how stock Debian compares... It can certainly be tiny, more so than most options out there. Expected challenges to me would be... - might need to pull custom kernel to support hardware, as Debian has a tendency to elderly kernels in stable releases - I'm not sure WiFi support is necessarily what all would term "friendly" (mind you, haven't tried that lately, so I could be surprised) - not sure what out-of-box touch sense you're likely to get But I'd expect "office" software to be handled pretty happily. And you can have *any* window manager you want, including plenty of obscure ones! :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 1 01:46:53 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 21:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: multibooting ubuntu and fedora Message-ID: I have a few computers that I want to have co-existing installations of Ubuntu and Fedora. Boot loaders get more and more complex. There is automation to set up grub2 configuration in most distros, I infer. There are scripts in /etc/grub.d to build the /boot/grub*/grub.config file. Each script is numbered, kind of like files within /etc/rc.d/rc?.d/. One script finds other linux installations and adds grub menu entries to boot them. The ubuntu scripts ignore Fedora UNLESS the Fedora partition is actually mounted!?!? ==> when running update-grub2 on Ubuntu 12.04, explicitly or implicitly (eg. as part of an Ubuntu update), make sure that the boot partition of each other linux distro is mounted. I wish that the script would just run the Fedora grub config file rather than trying to assimilate everything into the Ubuntu grub config file. The way it is now, you need to update the grub config file on Ubuntu every time there is a Fedora kernel update! ==> after every kernel update on a secondary linux installation, be sure to run update-grub2 on the linux that controls the boot loading. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 1 06:30:39 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 02:30:39 -0400 Subject: Is "2nd level indirection" possible in bash? In-Reply-To: References: <20120830174826.GA4687@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120901063039.GA8798@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 04:33:51PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote > On Thu, 30 Aug 2012, Ben Walton wrote: > > > Hi Walter, > > > >> # Routine to assemble date in YYYYMMDD format, using column locations > >> # imported in format file (i.e. 2nd parameter on commandline) > >> calc_yyyymmdd() { > >> yyyymmdd="${dataline:${f_yr}}${dataline:${f_mo}}${dataline:${f_dy}}" > >> export yyyymmdd > >> } > > > > I think this is what you're after (assuming I understand what you're > > trying to do): > > > > ME=ben > > varname=ME > > echo ${!varname} > > > > You build up the variable you're after then then use the ! to > > dereference the name. > > In shells that don't support the indirect expansion, use eval: > > eval echo "\$$varname" It looks like I'll have to go with eval. bash may support variables with "!" dereferencing, but it doesn't seem to work with substring notation. E.g. for format file... f_yr="25:4" f_mo="32:2" f_dy="37:2" f_data="50:5" ...with the formatfile name passed as the 2nd parm on the commandline, the bash script commands... ============================ . ${2} data="\${dataline:${f_data}}" yyyy="\${dataline:${f_yr}}" mm="\${dataline:${f_mo}}" dd="\${dataline:${f_dy}}" dataline="2432187.20, 1248.2754, 1947, 01, 01, .0, .0, .0" echo "${dataline}" echo "${yyyy} ${mm} ${dd} ${data}" echo "${!yyyy} ${!mm} ${!dd} ${!data}" eval echo "${yyyy} ${mm} ${dd} ${data}" ============================ ...produce the output ============================ 2432187.20, 1248.2754, 1947, 01, 01, .0, .0, .0 ${dataline:25:4} ${dataline:32:2} ${dataline:37:2} ${dataline:50:5} 1947 01 01 .0 ============================ The "!" dereferences don't output anything, but the eval works. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 1 07:17:28 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 03:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Is "2nd level indirection" possible in bash? In-Reply-To: <20120901063039.GA8798-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120830174826.GA4687@waltdnes.org> <20120901063039.GA8798@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Sep 2012, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 04:33:51PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote >> On Thu, 30 Aug 2012, Ben Walton wrote: >> >>> Hi Walter, >>> >>>> # Routine to assemble date in YYYYMMDD format, using column locations >>>> # imported in format file (i.e. 2nd parameter on commandline) >>>> calc_yyyymmdd() { >>>> yyyymmdd="${dataline:${f_yr}}${dataline:${f_mo}}${dataline:${f_dy}}" >>>> export yyyymmdd >>>> } >>> >>> I think this is what you're after (assuming I understand what you're >>> trying to do): >>> >>> ME=ben >>> varname=ME >>> echo ${!varname} >>> >>> You build up the variable you're after then then use the ! to >>> dereference the name. >> >> In shells that don't support the indirect expansion, use eval: >> >> eval echo "\$$varname" > > It looks like I'll have to go with eval. bash may support variables > with "!" dereferencing, but it doesn't seem to work with substring > notation. E.g. for format file... ... > yyyy="\${dataline:${f_yr}}" > echo "${!yyyy} ${!mm} ${!dd} ${!data}" Of course it won't work; the value of $yyyy is not a valid variable name. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 1 21:18:13 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 17:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: extensions.gnome.org Message-ID: I'm running a Gnome 3.4 shell on Fedora 17. I think that I still like the Gnome 2 shell better. I just went to extensions.gnome.org and found a few things that should improve 3.4: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/5/alternative-status-menu/ This gives you hibernate, suspend, and poweroff choices. (Default 3.4 gives you only suspend, unless you hold ALT in which case the suspend turns to shutdown.) https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/120/system-monitor/ gives you a reasonable system monitor in the status bar https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/131/touchpad-indicator/ Haven't tried this (not useful on a desktop). It lets you switch a touchpad on or off. It should be useful for notebooks where accidental touches are annoying. It can even switch touchpad off automatically when a mouse is plugged in. I wonder what the security model is. I just press "on" on the extension's web page, and it gets installed instantly and silently on my system. Seems pretty scary. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 2 00:04:13 2012 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 20:04:13 -0400 Subject: extensions.gnome.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Hugh, On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 5:18 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I just went to extensions.gnome.org and found a few things that should > improve 3.4: > > https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/5/alternative-status-menu/ > This gives you hibernate, suspend, and poweroff choices. > (Default 3.4 gives you only suspend, unless you hold ALT > in which case the suspend turns to shutdown.) 3.6 is due out this month (I'm running 3.5.90). I'm not sure how I feel about it, but Power Off will be the default. I never had any trouble finding the Alt key, and it was often convenient to suspend my laptop. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 2 22:48:51 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 18:48:51 -0400 Subject: [SOLVED]: Is "2nd level indirection" possible in bash? In-Reply-To: <20120830174826.GA4687-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120830174826.GA4687@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120902224851.GA12619@waltdnes.org> I finally figured out a compromise that does not use eval. I want to stay away from eval. I was trying to bite off too much in one step... * This does *NOT* work without eval dataline="2432187.20, 1248.2754, 1947, 01, 01, .0, .0, .0" f_yr="25:4" yyyy="\${dataline:${f_yr}}" * This does work without eval dataline="2432187.20, 1248.2754, 1947, 01, 01, .0, .0, .0" f_yr_start=25 f_yr_len=4 yyyy="${dataline:${f_yr_start}:${f_yr_len}}" echo "${yyyy}" The key is to substitute an integer separately for the start and length parameters, rather than trying to write the entire expression to be evaluated. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 01:21:41 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 21:21:41 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux Message-ID: Remember Supremetronic, who used to be on Queen Street? They had a lot of useful stuff, especially audio connectors and a good collection or resistors and capacitors. The owner wanted to retire, and the location is now worth a fortune of course, so he sold off the business. Lawrence Chan, who worked there at the time, then started Creatron, which is on College just east of Spadina. Creatron too has a lot of interesting stuff, with more emphasis on microprocessors (Arduino, of course, and now Rasberry Pi). (Full disclosure: they sell our oscilloscopes.) Lawrence is quite knowledgeable about his stock and about electronics in general. Supremetronic ended up at Honson computer on College, just west of Spadina, where it was pretty terrible as I recall. Then the Supremetronic stock migrated to a Home Hardware across the road, so you could pick up a paint roller at the same time as a 1200 ohm resistor. Very handy. Now they have moved a bit east, still on the north side, at 290 College. I was in there today and the space allocated to the electronics bits (in the basement) is quite enlarged. There seems to be a huge number of audio connectors, about as many as I recall from the original Supremetronic. They are still setting up, but it should be worth a visit when they get it all together. Speaking of electronics stores, on Saturday I happened to be in the Factory Direct at 1399 Kennedy (Tacky Kennedy, as some TLUGer put it). Man, what a dive. They make a dollar store look like Holt Renfrew. But there were a lot of people in there.. And Above All seems to still be in play - now out in Korea Town, south side of Bloor. I was by there on a Sunday, when they were closed. It's really tiny. But I recall the proprietor as a pleasant, knowledgeable guy, and they did have some useful stuff from time to time. We are very well served by these electronics stores. I was in San Francisco/Silicon Valley a while ago and to my surprise could not find anything remotely comparable. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 01:35:23 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2012 21:35:23 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5044095B.8080608@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Remember Supremetronic, who used to be on Queen Street? I remember them. There were several electronic supply and computer stores along that stretch of Queen. There was one at the corner of Spadina that used to be near Active Surplus, but I don't recall it's name, Active Surplus of course, Arkon, before they went all Apple. I even remember when Arkon was east of Yonge. There were more stores along College back then. Also, going back many years ago, there were several stores on Yonge St, between College & Wellesley, including Electrosonic. Back in the '80s, I bought a bare S-100 bus prototyping board from Active Surplus, along with a bunch of parts and designed and built an 8 port serial card for my IMSAI 8080. I also bought a 300 baud manual modem from one of those stores on Queen. Computers were more fun back then. :-) BTW, anyone here remember TRACE (Toronto Region Association of Computer Enthusiasts)? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 02:53:52 2012 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen) Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2012 22:53:52 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1346640832.32086.8.camel@bliss.ss.org> Reminded me of The Computer Shop Trintronics on Queen Street around McCall! But then that was back in the dark ages!! Few people actually went into computer stores in those days. On Sun, 2012-09-02 at 21:21 -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Remember Supremetronic, who used to be on Queen Street? They had a lot of > useful stuff, especially audio connectors and a good collection or > resistors and capacitors. The owner wanted to retire, and the location is > now worth a fortune of course, so he sold off the business. Lawrence Chan, > who worked there at the time, then started Creatron, which is on College > just east of Spadina. > > Creatron too has a lot of interesting stuff, with more emphasis on > microprocessors (Arduino, of course, and now Rasberry Pi). (Full > disclosure: they sell our oscilloscopes.) Lawrence is quite knowledgeable > about his stock and about electronics in general. > > Supremetronic ended up at Honson computer on College, just west of > Spadina, where it was pretty terrible as I recall. Then the Supremetronic > stock migrated to a Home Hardware across the road, so you could pick up a > paint roller at the same time as a 1200 ohm resistor. Very handy. Now they > have moved a bit east, still on the north side, at 290 College. I was in > there today and the space allocated to the electronics bits (in the > basement) is quite enlarged. There seems to be a huge number of audio > connectors, about as many as I recall from the original Supremetronic. > They are still setting up, but it should be worth a visit when they get it > all together. > > Speaking of electronics stores, on Saturday I happened to be in the > Factory Direct at 1399 Kennedy (Tacky Kennedy, as some TLUGer put it). > Man, what a dive. They make a dollar store look like Holt Renfrew. But > there were a lot of people in there.. > > And Above All seems to still be in play - now out in Korea Town, south > side of Bloor. I was by there on a Sunday, when they were closed. It's > really tiny. But I recall the proprietor as a pleasant, knowledgeable guy, > and they did have some useful stuff from time to time. > > We are very well served by these electronics stores. I was in San > Francisco/Silicon Valley a while ago and to my surprise could not find > anything remotely comparable. > > Peter > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 03:19:01 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 23:19:01 -0400 Subject: 2.4Ghz vs. 5GHz antenna Message-ID: <20120903031901.GA23938@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi, Question: Is there practical difference between antenna on 2.4GHz adapter/router and antenna on dual-band 2.4GHz-5GHz adapter/router? Problem: I have Linksys WMP-600N PCI adapter (dual-band) which keeps losing connection. Because of physical contraints, I've replaced its 2 antennas with external antennas (TP-LINK TL-ANT2408C) whose specs say 2.4-2.4835GHz. I couldn't find anything that says 5GHz or dual-band. Maybe, I'm using "wrong" kind of antennas? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 03:39:38 2012 From: faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 03:39:38 +0000 (GMT) Subject: 2.4Ghz vs. 5GHz antenna References: <20120903031901.GA23938@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <655234023.19934.1346643578288.JavaMail.mail@webmail12> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 05:35:10 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 01:35:10 -0400 Subject: 2.4Ghz vs. 5GHz antenna In-Reply-To: <655234023.19934.1346643578288.JavaMail.mail@webmail12> References: <20120903031901.GA23938@node1.opengeometry.net> <655234023.19934.1346643578288.JavaMail.mail@webmail12> Message-ID: <20120903053510.GA29331@node1.opengeometry.net> I'm sort of limited to what I can buy. The new dual-band adapter came with antennas that looked exactly like the antenna on my old Wireless-G adapter. That's why I thought I could use 2.4GHz external antenna. Moving my tower into open space and pointing its back towards the router (D-Link DIR-655, which is B/G/N300 router), I get the same problem regardless of antennas. -- William On Mon, Sep 03, 2012 at 03:39:38AM +0000, faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > William, > So a normal antenna for any frequency will be of a harmonic fraction of > the wavelength of the signal. For best performance you'd want a 1/2 > wavelength antenna. > For 5.4 GHz, the wavelength is 6cm. > For 2.4 GHz, the wavelength is 12cm. > http://www.csgnetwork.com/freqwavelengthcalc.html > So a 2.4 GHz antenna that is say, a 1/2 wavelength antenna should work > well as a 1/4 wavelength antenna. > A dual-band antenna is one where it is usually about 1/2 wavelength of > the lower frequency but has an inductor in between to deal with the > higher frequency. > If you are seeing disconnections, look at where your router is situated > before playing with antennae. Also, look for things that may interfere > with signals inbetween the router and the client device you're > connecting with. > There are many factors to the performance including the routers > overheating. > Personally I have two problems, overheating and my brother using up all > my bandwidth. Neither of which is a signal issue. :( > I hope this helps, > Faisal > > On Sep 2, 2012, William Park wrote: > > > > Hi, > > Question: > > Is there practical difference between antenna on 2.4GHz > > adapter/router and antenna on dual-band 2.4GHz-5GHz adapter/router? > > Problem: > > I have Linksys WMP-600N PCI adapter (dual-band) which keeps losing > > connection. Because of physical contraints, I've replaced its 2 > > antennas with external antennas (TP-LINK TL-ANT2408C) whose specs > > say 2.4-2.4835GHz. I couldn't find anything that says 5GHz or > > dual-band. Maybe, I'm using "wrong" kind of antennas? > > -- > > William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 11:53:35 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 07:53:35 -0400 Subject: 2.4Ghz vs. 5GHz antenna In-Reply-To: <20120903031901.GA23938-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120903031901.GA23938@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <50449A3F.2050508@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > Hi, > > Question: > Is there practical difference between antenna on 2.4GHz > adapter/router and antenna on dual-band 2.4GHz-5GHz adapter/router? > > Problem: > I have Linksys WMP-600N PCI adapter (dual-band) which keeps losing > connection. Because of physical contraints, I've replaced its 2 > antennas with external antennas (TP-LINK TL-ANT2408C) whose specs > say 2.4-2.4835GHz. I couldn't find anything that says 5GHz or > dual-band. Maybe, I'm using "wrong" kind of antennas? Actually, yes there is. An antenna has to be designed for the appropriate frequencies. In fact, the simplest antenna, a half wave dipole, made for 2.4 GHz would be a very poor antenna at 5 GHz. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 12:01:46 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 08:01:46 -0400 Subject: 2.4Ghz vs. 5GHz antenna In-Reply-To: <655234023.19934.1346643578288.JavaMail.mail@webmail12> References: <20120903031901.GA23938@node1.opengeometry.net> <655234023.19934.1346643578288.JavaMail.mail@webmail12> Message-ID: <50449C2A.2070709@rogers.com> faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > So a normal antenna for any frequency will be of a harmonic fraction > of the wavelength of the signal. For best performance you'd want a > 1/2 wavelength antenna. > > For 5.4 GHz, the wavelength is 6cm. > For 2.4 GHz, the wavelength is 12cm. > > http://www.csgnetwork.com/freqwavelengthcalc.html > > So a 2.4 GHz antenna that is say, a 1/2 wavelength antenna should work > well as a 1/4 wavelength antenna. You'd better go back to school on this. As I mentioned in another note, the simplest antenna is a dipole, which is 1/2 wavelength overall or 1/4 wavelength either side of the feed point. A similar antenna would be a 1/4 wavelength element and ground, with the ground representing the other side of the antenna. In these examples 1/4 wavelength presents a low impedance which is easily matched by common radio equipment. If the 1/4 wavelength elements were replace with 1/2 wavelength, then you'd have a high impedance, which will not match the equipment. Since 5 GHz is just over twice 2.4 GHz, a 1/4 wavelength element @ 2.4 GHz is now a 1/2 wavelength @ 5 GHz. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 12:04:46 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 08:04:46 -0400 Subject: 2.4Ghz vs. 5GHz antenna In-Reply-To: <655234023.19934.1346643578288.JavaMail.mail@webmail12> References: <20120903031901.GA23938@node1.opengeometry.net> <655234023.19934.1346643578288.JavaMail.mail@webmail12> Message-ID: <50449CDE.2020404@rogers.com> faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org wrote: > A dual-band antenna is one where it is usually about 1/2 wavelength of > the lower frequency but has an inductor in between to deal with the > higher frequency. Actually, it's the other way around. The inductor makes an antenna look longer to favour lower frequencies, not higher. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 12:07:01 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 08:07:01 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Speaking of electronics stores, on Saturday I happened to be in the > Factory Direct at 1399 Kennedy (Tacky Kennedy, as some TLUGer put it). > Man, what a dive. They make a dollar store look like Holt Renfrew. But > there were a lot of people in there.. Factory Direct is not what it used to be. They used to be a place to get decent deals on computer and other tech gear. Not anymore. I dropped into the Mississauga store on Dundas, a few months ago, and it was mostly non tech stuff, such as Christmas decorations, kitchen stuff etc. with only a small area for tech stuff. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 12:58:53 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 08:58:53 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: <50449D65.1020808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> On 12-09-03 08:07 , James Knott wrote: > > Factory Direct is not what it used to be. They used to be a place to > get decent deals on computer and other tech gear. Not to mention the basement full of O'Reilly and other Unix manuals at the College location. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 13:17:18 2012 From: phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 09:17:18 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: <5044A98D.7070909-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2012-09-03, at 8:58 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Not to mention the basement full of O'Reilly and other Unix manuals So...I may not be the only person to have furnished his home office from there? :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 14:25:34 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 10:25:34 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: <5044A98D.7070909-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5044BDDE.3000301@rogers.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: >> Factory Direct is not what it used to be. They used to be a place to >> >get decent deals on computer and other tech gear. > Not to mention the basement full of O'Reilly and other Unix manuals at > the College location. Yep. I also bought some books from them, though not at that location. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 14:29:37 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 10:29:37 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: <5044A98D.7070909-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 12-09-03 08:07 , James Knott wrote: >> >> Factory Direct is not what it used to be. They used to be a place to >> get decent deals on computer and other tech gear. > > Not to mention the basement full of O'Reilly and other Unix manuals at > the College location. I was always of two minds about that... On the one hand, I was all, "squeee! Cheap books that I sorta want!" On the other hand, the only way to have a basement full of spectacularly discounted books is for that basement of spectacularly discounted books to be considered effectively commercially worthless, which bodes ill for the continued production of such books. And the "tech book" section at the average bookstore has indeed become a pale shadow of what it was 15 years ago. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 14:44:03 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 10:44:03 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On the other hand, the only way to have a basement full of > spectacularly discounted books is for that basement of spectacularly > discounted books to be considered effectively commercially worthless, > which bodes ill for the continued production of such books. There have always been clearance books stores. Many books have a limited shelf life. ;-) The clearance books either didn't move well in the first place or are older editions that have been superseded by newer editions. Regardless, they were still usually a good source of (possibly dated) info. > And the "tech book" section at the average bookstore has indeed become > a pale shadow of what it was 15 years ago. Yeah, that seemed to happen shortly after Heather Reisman bought out Chapters/Coles/World's Biggest Bookstore. She even stated that her goal was to change them into gift shops. She certainly has done an excellent job of dumbing down those stores. Years ago, I often bought my Ryerson texts from WBB. You'd think that with all the stores she has, she could have at least left WBB as a decent book store, given it's central location, close to business, UoT, Ryerson, the hospitals etc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 14:47:43 2012 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 10:47:43 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120903104743.6002d4702cfa90a27a895f65@eol.ca> On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 10:29:37 -0400 Christopher Browne wrote: > > I was always of two minds about that... > > On the one hand, I was all, "squeee! Cheap books that I sorta want!" > > On the other hand, the only way to have a basement full of > spectacularly discounted books is for that basement of spectacularly > discounted books to be considered effectively commercially worthless, > which bodes ill for the continued production of such books. > > And the "tech book" section at the average bookstore has indeed become > a pale shadow of what it was 15 years ago. I recall reading somewhere that people would just go out and indiscriminately buy computer books. It allowed some mindboggling crap to occupy bookshelves. I still recall wandering through the Worlds' Biggest Bookstore back in the eighties and seeing a book on BASIC with a graphic on the cover showing the command "LET A=5". The LET command disappeared shortly after BASIC was conceived. The book was a piddling twenty years out of date. I have a pile of Commodore C64 books in my basement. If anyone wants to film a scene of Nazis reading Jewish fiction and advanced physics, Just don't zoom in and highlight the titles. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 14:54:20 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 10:54:20 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5044C49C.4080405@gmail.com> On 12-09-03 09:17 , Phillip Mills wrote: > > So...I may not be the only person to have furnished his home office from > there? :) One of us! The great thing about older Unix books is their incredible shelf life. I still use reference books from the 1990s for topics that never quite get committed to memory. On 12-09-03 10:44 , James Knott wrote:> > > You'd think that with all the stores she has, she could > have at least left WBB as a decent book store, given it's central > location, close to business, UoT, Ryerson, the hospitals etc. Don't worry, it's likely to close next year: http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1214719--toronto-s-world-s-biggest-bookstore-slated-to-close-in-2013 While I love bookstores (and treasured my too-few visits to Foyle's in London, which had compendious stock and stupendously rude staff), they're just Amazon showrooms now. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 3 15:29:55 2012 From: phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 11:29:55 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: <5044C49C.4080405-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C49C.4080405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2D86310D-DEBB-47FA-8988-D25337201EDE@acm.org> On 2012-09-03, at 10:54 AM, "Stewart C. Russell" wrote: > The great thing about older Unix books is their incredible > shelf life. Some of that. The other thing I found it useful for was getting a reasonable introduction to stuff I wasn't necessarily going to work with but wanted to understand well enough to evaluate for projects. ([Reads titles from the far wall] Python, Soap, Apache Modules, Qt, MySQL?.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 04:21:11 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 00:21:11 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: <5044C233.6090906-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 10:44 AM, James Knott wrote: >> And the "tech book" section at the average bookstore has indeed become >> a pale shadow of what it was 15 years ago. > > Yeah, that seemed to happen shortly after Heather Reisman bought out > Chapters/Coles/World's Biggest Bookstore. She even stated that her goal was > to change them into gift shops. She certainly has done an excellent job of > dumbing down those stores. Years ago, I often bought my Ryerson texts from > WBB. You'd think that with all the stores she has, she could have at least > left WBB as a decent book store, given it's central location, close to > business, UoT, Ryerson, the hospitals etc. Ah, but as much as there are undesirable things about what she has done with Indigo/Chapters, this is not fundamentally a Canadian phenomenon. I watched the "crash" from pretty close on in 2002-2003; was doing some review work for Wrox back at that time, when they effectively imploded. Around 2000, all kinds of publishers were pushing out crazy amounts of stuff, particularly in the technical book arena. At the publisher level, there has been an incredible amount of contraction of market between 2000 and now, and the relevant publishers aren't Canadian. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 06:03:19 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 02:03:19 -0400 Subject: OpenWRT questions Message-ID: Hi there. It looks like there are some are some OpenWRT experts (or at least expereinced users) here, and I'm hoping that someone can help he out of an impasse. I purchased a TP-Link TL-WR703N wifi router on eBay for $20. It seems to be able to do what I need -- as a light, power-sipping travel router -- and I really only need two functions: 1. A portable wifi router, to allow multiple wireless devices to use the Internet in a hotel room if all that's provided by the room is a wired connection (it would fetch a DHCP address from the hotel, but masquerade and provide DHCP addresses to wireless devices) 2. A repeater that will magnify weak wifi signals (again, useful in a hotel room if they have wifi but it's weak) There are other things I may want to do with it later (especially with the USB port) but the above are the main two priorities. The factory ROM is in Chinese only, but the device appears to be fully supported by OpenWRT . I've successfully installed the OpenWRT ROM and have the LUCI web interface working. However, I appear to be at an impasse in making it perform the above tasks. Where I'm stuck is in understanding just which of the possible configuration "recipes" is required. For bridging the wired LAN into a wifi hotspot, do I need a "routed client (with masquerade)", a "routed client with relayd" (also mentioned here ), or something else? What's the best way to set this up? Can I use LUCI or am I stuck doing this in CLI? Also, how I implement the repeater? Ideally I would like the device to act as a repeater if wired Ethernet is not attached, and LAN-to-wifi router when attached. And finally, does anyone have any suggestions, warnings or gotchas about using this device/OS? Thanks! -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 14:08:47 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:08:47 -0400 Subject: OpenWRT questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50460B6F.5050409@ss.org> On 09/04/2012 02:03 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi there. > > It looks like there are some are some OpenWRT experts (or at least > expereinced users) here, and I'm hoping that someone can help he out of > an impasse. > > I purchased a TP-Link TL-WR703N wifi router on eBay for $20. It seems to > be able to do what I need -- as a light, power-sipping travel router -- > and I really only need two functions: It's a nice device. I have a colleague and friend who has several of them at hacklab.to. I personally own a few of it's brother model, the TL-MR3020 which can be had a Canada Computers for about ~$40. The noticeable differences are a 3-pos switch and more LEDs, and a button in a 50% larger package. (For those on the list, the TL-WR703N is 2" x 2") > 1. A portable wifi router, to allow multiple wireless devices to use > the Internet in a hotel room if all that's provided by the room is a > wired connection (it would fetch a DHCP address from the hotel, but > masquerade and provide DHCP addresses to wireless devices) > > 2. A repeater that will magnify weak wifi signals (again, useful in a > hotel room if they have wifi but it's weak) > > There are other things I may want to do with it later (especially with > the USB port) but the above are the main two priorities. > > The factory ROM is in Chinese only, but the device appears to be fully > supported by OpenWRT . > I've successfully installed the OpenWRT ROM and have the LUCI web > interface working. However, I appear to be at an impasse in making it > perform the above tasks. The TL-MR3020 will do most of what you ask out of the box with English firmware. I've currently got mine doing Wifi -> LAN bridging at home... although DHCP doesn't cross over with the stock firmware so I suspect that's where relayd comes in with OpenWRT. > Where I'm stuck is in understanding just which of the possible > configuration "recipes" > is required. For bridging the wired LAN into a wifi hotspot, do I need a > "routed client (with > masquerade)", a "routed client with relayd > " (also mentioned here > ), or something else? To go from the LAN to the WIFI should only require setting up a linux bridge device between eth0 and wlan0. Those examples seem to be for NATing between one wifi and yours. > What's the best way to set this up? Can I use LUCI or am I stuck doing this in CLI? A point I like to keep in mind is that most of the "config files" for software in openWRT are generated at boot from the UCI config files for said software. (LUCI just being a Lua Web frontend to UCI). LUCI => UCI => /etc/config => generated .conf files. When documentation is lacking or cryptic I've take the following tactic. Do a clean flash, copy /etc/config off the device then cofigure with LUCI and do a diff. So, there is a clear trickle down. If you want precision control, use the /etc/config files. If you want to set a bunch of values have the rest sorted out for you, use UCI/LUCI. > Also, how I implement the repeater? Ideally I would like the device to > act as a repeater if wired Ethernet is not attached, and LAN-to-wifi > router when attached. This is where I favour the TL-MR3020 with OpenWRT. The 3-pos switch means you have a physical control you can read from software and make scripted changes from. I'm sure you can do it purely in software, but I have no advice at this time. Do be mindful that the built in shell is ash and not bash. > And finally, does anyone have any suggestions, warnings or gotchas about > using this device/OS? Just what I've mentioned as I've gone along. It really is a useful device. We're currently looking at sticking one in our Train Overload at the hacklab to run it's WebGui on the train its self. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 14:34:43 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 10:34:43 -0400 Subject: OpenWRT questions In-Reply-To: <50460B6F.5050409-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <50460B6F.5050409@ss.org> Message-ID: Hi Scott, thanks for the quick answer. On 4 September 2012 10:08, Scott Sullivan wrote: > The TL-MR3020 will do most of what you ask out of the box with English > firmware. I've currently got mine doing Wifi -> LAN bridging at home... > although DHCP doesn't cross over with the stock firmware so I suspect > that's where relayd comes in with OpenWRT. > I suspect the stock Chinese ROM would also work if I understood it. > To go from the LAN to the WIFI should only require setting up a linux > bridge device between eth0 and wlan0. Those examples seem to be for NATing > between one wifi and yours. Here's where my confusion is starting to set in. The simplest config is only as an access point, where the IP address(es) get fed from the wired router. But I think this may screw up on hotel systems that are expecting only a single device per drop. Unless the hotel has its own Class C block of addresses (unlikely) I must assume that it too is using NAT. I would that assume my wifi router would need to serve up its own DHCP because the hotel couldn't be relied upon to provide more than one IP per room. I'd be concerned about breaching the terms of use, exceeding some capability of the hotel's system or otherwise breaking something. So I need a setup that can't assume the host Ethernet is capable of more than a single IP address. You seem to be suggesting using a bridged client using relayd(what OpenWRT calls a "pseudobridge"). Does there exist a simple explanation of the difference between this and the "client routing using masquerading " model? Which one would be better for my specific need? The two network map diagrams look awfully similar. > What's the best way to set this up? Can I use LUCI or am I stuck doing >> this in CLI? >> > > A point I like to keep in mind is that most of the "config files" for > software in openWRT are generated at boot from the UCI config files for > said software. (LUCI just being a Lua Web frontend to UCI). > I know. I had to do a good chunk of config file editing (using the system's limited 'vi') just to get to run LUCI. :-P > When documentation is lacking or cryptic I've take the following tactic. > Do a clean flash, copy /etc/config off the device then cofigure with LUCI > and do a diff. > > So, there is a clear trickle down. If you want precision control, use the > /etc/config files. If you want to set a bunch of values have the rest > sorted out for you, use UCI/LUCI. > Thanks again. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 14:39:53 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 07:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TP-LINK routers -- WEP or WPA2 in bridge mode? Message-ID: <1346769593.28926.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> To anyone with TP-LINK routers... Most, if not all, TP-LINK routers have "WDS Bridge" in their specs.? If you're using it as wireless bridge, can you tell me which model and whether it does WPA2? It should, because otherwise how can it connect to the network in the first place.? But, Google search says that most can only do WEP encryption in "WDS Bridge" mode. I need wireless bridge, because I can't get my wireless card to work consistently, with or without external antenna. Using external device would eliminate any driver problem (which I suspect) and solve antenna problem as well. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 14:55:21 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:55:21 -0400 Subject: TP-LINK routers -- WEP or WPA2 in bridge mode? In-Reply-To: <1346769593.28926.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3P6X00i2u5GFvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1346769593.28926.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50461659.9080109@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > I need wireless bridge, because I can't get my wireless > card to work consistently, with or without external antenna. > Why not go with a proper access point, such as the TP-Link TL-WA901ND? I have one of those and it works well. It supports 802.11n and WPA2?. It also supports PoE, so you don't need to have AC power handy. If you need something portable, you might consider the Asus WL-330gE (802.11g) or D-Link DAP-1350 (802.11n). 1) 802.11n mandates WPA2. If you select a lesser encryption method, an access point is not supposed to work in 802.11n mode. This is part of the specs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 15:21:59 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 11:21:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thanks for this posting: lots of memories and some new things about old places. And it started a great thread. | Supremetronic ended up at Honson computer on College, just west of | Spadina, where it was pretty terrible as I recall. I'm trying to remember: was Honson's the one that combined with Mother's Sandwich Shop? Mother's was a favourite from the 1970's. They had a Volkswagen with a Rolls Royce grill as a delivery vehicle. | Speaking of electronics stores, on Saturday I happened to be in the | Factory Direct at 1399 Kennedy (Tacky Kennedy, as some TLUGer put it). | Man, what a dive. They make a dollar store look like Holt Renfrew. But | there were a lot of people in there.. As noted elsewhere, they've diversified into left over As Seen On TV crap. Sometimes they have something of interest, but the price isn't usually that good. | And Above All seems to still be in play - now out in Korea Town, south | side of Bloor. As a scavenger, I found their prices high. But if I treated them as outsourcing my basement (i.e. so I don't have to save everything that might some day be useful), it would be a tremendous bargain. Old habits are hard to kill. | From: James Knott | There were more stores along College back then. Remember Exceltronics? A big hole when they disappeared. I could not believe that a Dot Matrix printer (A Gemini 10X) could be less than $400 (1982). The printer's gone; I'm just trying to pitch the manual now. | Also, going back | many years ago, there were several stores on Yonge St, between College & | Wellesley, including Electrosonic. In about 1982 I bought a Z80a from some store / distributor near there. I just don't remember the name (Future?). I used it to overclock my Kaypro II to 4Mhz. I was thrilled and amazed by the first computer store I remember in Toronto (1975). I forget it's name, but it was in a house on Gloucester (parallel to Wellesley, a few streets north) between Yonge and Church. They sold these cute Poly 88 computers and lots of other things An early S100 that didn't have switches and lights. | Back in the '80s, I bought a bare S-100 | bus prototyping board from Active Surplus, along with a bunch of parts and | designed and built an 8 port serial card for my IMSAI 8080. I also bought a | 300 baud manual modem from one of those stores on Queen. Computers were more | fun back then. :-) I was in Waterloo in the early 1980s. I bought a 64k RAM board for my Altair at a reputable chain for a bargain price. Turned out that the design was a ever-so-slightly photo-reduced clone of a mainstream board. So I had to place it just right so that all the fingers actually matched the S100 socket! Those sure were the days. | BTW, anyone here remember TRACE (Toronto Region Association of Computer | Enthusiasts)? I never went to a meeting, but I saw a few traces of them (eg. newsletters). | From: Stewart C. Russell | Not to mention the basement full of O'Reilly and other Unix manuals at | the College location. The supply seemed to be very static. Perhaps they only got one big lump, perhaps from the bankruptcy of some distributor. | From: Christopher Browne | I was always of two minds about that... | | On the one hand, I was all, "squeee! Cheap books that I sorta want!" Yeah. I try to convince myself that my time reading is worth more than I save by stockpilin a possibly inferior book. I fail. | On the other hand, the only way to have a basement full of | spectacularly discounted books is for that basement of spectacularly | discounted books to be considered effectively commercially worthless, | which bodes ill for the continued production of such books. Not sure. While the boom was on, books were ephemeral. The part of this we are observing is that there was an awesome supply of remainders. The upside (for publishers) was that they could frequently sell replacements to customers who had bought books that became obsolete. Those short-shelf-life books were almost never to my taste. But someone must have bought them. Now the internet provides all the ephemeral content you want, fresh (half?) baked. | And the "tech book" section at the average bookstore has indeed become | a pale shadow of what it was 15 years ago. Yeah. This is where ebooks make sense. Maybe. If the nexus ideas that the book embodies makes make sense (a static delineated canonical linear chunk of knowledge and presentation). O'Reilly's books are of less interest to me these days, but they seem to have a 50% off ebooks sale at the moment. Get Ian Darwin's Android book. No DRM! ebooks should mean no remainders (books printed but not sold, discounted to clear, no royalty to author). There can be discounts, of course, since the marginal cost is near zero. | From: Stewart C. Russell | The great thing about older Unix books is their incredible | shelf life. I still use reference books from the 1990s for topics that | never quite get committed to memory. I'm not sure. I have a room full of this stuff and yet I find myself googling instead of picking up a book. And the Linux folks really are changing a lot of the plumbing. | Don't worry, it's likely to close next year: | http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1214719--toronto-s-world-s-biggest-bookstore-slated-to-close-in-2013 Sad. But it's been a long time since I found much of value there. When Indigo / Chapters closed their book distributor, they dumped a lot of academic titles. Like vultures, we spent hours looking through the rubble. Someone next to my daughter said derisively about a latex book "why would anyone want this?". When she put it down, my daughter pounced. Both kids have used it. But nobody here has yet read "The Calcium Ion Channel". | While I love bookstores (and treasured my too-few visits to Foyle's in | London, which had compendious stock and stupendously rude staff), | they're just Amazon showrooms now. Try Hay on Wye | From: Christopher Browne | I watched the "crash" from pretty close on in 2002-2003; was doing | some review work for Wrox back at that time, when they effectively | imploded. Around 2000, all kinds of publishers were pushing out crazy | amounts of stuff, particularly in the technical book arena. The model has evolved, I guess. Paper books are probably not the optimal medium for ephemeral information. Book stores are probably not the optimal delivery model. But some useful things are lost when they go. There is something that appeals to me in a non-rational way about physical books (and physical artifacts in general). We live in a disposable world, and I'm not cut out for it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 15:31:31 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:31:31 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50461ED3.9090804@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I was thrilled and amazed by the first computer store I remember in > Toronto (1975). I forget it's name, but it was in a house on > Gloucester (parallel to Wellesley, a few streets north) between Yonge > and Church. They sold these cute Poly 88 computers and lots of other > things I bought my IMSAI 8080 from them (Computer Master?). There was another store on the north side of Queen, west of Simcoe that favoured Altair. > Remember Exceltronics? A big hole when they disappeared. Yep. > | BTW, anyone here remember TRACE (Toronto Region Association of Computer > | Enthusiasts)? > > I never went to a meeting, but I saw a few traces of them (eg. > newsletters). The used to meet at Humber College, but, IIRC, they also had some meetings in the Ontario Science Centre. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 16:28:51 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 12:28:51 -0400 Subject: TP-LINK routers -- WEP or WPA2 in bridge mode? In-Reply-To: <50461659.9080109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1346769593.28926.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <50461659.9080109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50462C43.9020906@ss.org> On 09/04/2012 10:55 AM, James Knott wrote: > William Park wrote: >> I need wireless bridge, because I can't get my wireless >> card to work consistently, with or without external antenna. >> > > Why not go with a proper access point, such as the TP-Link TL-WA901ND? I > have one of those and it works well. It supports 802.11n and WPA2?. It > also supports PoE, so you don't need to have AC power handy. If you > need something portable, you might consider the Asus WL-330gE (802.11g) > or D-Link DAP-1350 (802.11n). > > 1) 802.11n mandates WPA2. If you select a lesser encryption method, an > access point is not supposed to work in 802.11n mode. This is part of > the specs. William already has an access point and is looking for something client side as his client side wireless card is giving him trouble. Suggesting getting another access point doesn't answer his question about what versions of encryption are supported for WDS Bridging. Now, I currently am using those features with a TP-Link TL-MR3020 (native firmware). I am bridging my Access point (a D-link running OpenWRT) with WPA2 as my selected encryption for the AP. I have the TL-MR3020 supporting a small lan of 4 machines where it was not convenient to run a cable through my home. Currently it has been working rather well. I seem to be unable to get DHCP responses to that local group, but I had no issue when I was testing the bridging at my office (did a PXE boot through the bridge). So I suspect it's some other issue not caused specifically by the bridging. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 16:37:52 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 09:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TP-LINK routers -- WEP or WPA2 in bridge mode? In-Reply-To: <50461659.9080109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1346769593.28926.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <50461659.9080109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1346776672.52725.YahooMailNeo@web113420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thanks for feedback on TL-WA901ND.? For now, single ethernet port AP is just fine.? But, I may want to add more devices to the network, in which case I'd prefer AP/switch in one device. -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: James Knott > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:55:21 AM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: TP-LINK routers -- WEP or WPA2 in bridge mode? > > William Park wrote: >> I need wireless bridge, because I can't get my wireless >> card to work consistently, with or without external antenna. >> > > Why not go with a proper access point, such as the TP-Link TL-WA901ND?? I have > one of those and it works well.? It supports 802.11n and WPA2?.? It also > supports PoE, so you don't need to have AC power handy.? If you need > something portable, you might consider the Asus WL-330gE (802.11g) or D-Link > DAP-1350 (802.11n). > > 1)? 802.11n mandates WPA2.? If you select a lesser encryption method, an access > point is not supposed to work in 802.11n mode. This is part of the specs. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 16:52:34 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 12:52:34 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1346777554.1975.26.camel@tecumseth3> On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 11:21 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: James Knott > > | There were more stores along College back then. > > Remember Exceltronics? A big hole when they disappeared. They made a nice system, and the price was right. Designed and built in Canada, I believe. Customer service fit the colloquial definition of "piece of work". When I walked in to buy my first computer, the salesmen were off in a corner playing "who's the biggest honcho". I bought my system from the only person who'd talk to me, who turned out to be a high-school student that they brought in weekends to sell Apple][ clones. The salesmen never forgave me and my order never got totally filled; the hardware trickled in over time but I wound up getting the software, Lotus 1-2-3, Turbo Pascal, etc., from across the street at a store next to Computer Parts Galore. Later on after I'd hotrodded the thing a little with a MIDI interface from Computer Parts Galore, and an 8087 and a V-20 I got to feel cramped in the 512KB. An upgrade was possible with more chips and a PAL upgrade from the factory. Went to pick it up and the rep brought out a couple of PALs and a tube of ceramic DRAMs, gold tops and all, host of scratches and screwdriver dings. I stared. Rep: Interesting, aren't they? Me: These have been through the wars. Rep: Hold on. [Returns with tube of new chips.] I, simple soul, never forgave Exceltronics. Took me years to figure out that the rep had been collecting junk at swap meets, and when he saw a memory upgrade order, realized that he could deliver some junk to the customer, check the new merchandise off against the purchase order and keep it, and PROFIT. > | Also, going back > | many years ago, there were several stores on Yonge St, between College & > | Wellesley, including Electrosonic. Dominion Radio Electronics, for one, right next door. Seems there may have been others, but I can't even visualize where they might have been. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 17:02:35 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:02:35 -0400 Subject: TP-LINK routers -- WEP or WPA2 in bridge mode? In-Reply-To: <1346776672.52725.YahooMailNeo-ywxMEV4duM8/JfqJOfUXs/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1346769593.28926.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <50461659.9080109@rogers.com> <1346776672.52725.YahooMailNeo@web113420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5046342B.7070801@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > Thanks for feedback on TL-WA901ND. For now, single ethernet > port AP is just fine. But, I may want to add more devices to > the network, in which case I'd prefer AP/switch in one device. The TL-WA901ND is just an access point, not a switch. One advantage to that is you can place it where it will provide best coverage, not necessarily where your computer network gear is located. In my case, I decided to place it high on the wall in the laundry room, which is close to the middle of my condo, whereas with the access point near my computer, I had a poor signal at the far end. I have a separate 16 port switch, near my computers, that everything plugs into. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 17:32:26 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 10:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TP-LINK routers -- WEP or WPA2 in bridge mode? In-Reply-To: <5046342B.7070801-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1346769593.28926.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <50461659.9080109@rogers.com> <1346776672.52725.YahooMailNeo@web113420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <5046342B.7070801@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1346779946.53022.YahooMailNeo@web113419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi James, Question about TL-WA901ND... Looking at the specs, its ethernet port is 10/100Mbit, but wireless side is 300Mbit.? Maybe it's typo.? Have you ever gone over 100Mbps in actual use? -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: James Knott > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:02:35 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: TP-LINK routers -- WEP or WPA2 in bridge mode? > > William Park wrote: >> Thanks for feedback on TL-WA901ND.? For now, single ethernet >> port AP is just fine.? But, I may want to add more devices to >> the network, in which case I'd prefer AP/switch in one device. > > The TL-WA901ND is just an access point, not a switch.? One advantage to that is > you can place it where it will provide best coverage, not necessarily where your > computer network gear is located.? In my case, I decided to place it high on the > wall in the laundry room, which is close to the middle of my condo, whereas with > the access point near my computer, I had a poor signal at the far end.? I have a > separate 16 port switch, near my computers, that everything plugs into. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 17:46:08 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 13:46:08 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120904174608.GH1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 08:37:22PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > I'd be curious as to how stock Debian compares... It can certainly be > tiny, more so than most options out there. > > Expected challenges to me would be... > - might need to pull custom kernel to support hardware, as Debian has a > tendency to elderly kernels in stable releases > - I'm not sure WiFi support is necessarily what all would term "friendly" > (mind you, haven't tried that lately, so I could be surprised) > - not sure what out-of-box touch sense you're likely to get > > But I'd expect "office" software to be handled pretty happily. And you can > have *any* window manager you want, including plenty of obscure ones! :-) I don't find Debian difficult to get on a laptop and working, but of course some laptops have unsupported hardware that makes things harder. If you want life to be simple, try mint. My wife tried it on her ideapad and everything just works it seems. Quite something to see for a linux install. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 17:46:30 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 13:46:30 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop In-Reply-To: <20120904174608.GH1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120904174608.GH1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120904174630.GI1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 01:46:08PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 08:37:22PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > I'd be curious as to how stock Debian compares... It can certainly be > > tiny, more so than most options out there. > > > > Expected challenges to me would be... > > - might need to pull custom kernel to support hardware, as Debian has a > > tendency to elderly kernels in stable releases > > - I'm not sure WiFi support is necessarily what all would term "friendly" > > (mind you, haven't tried that lately, so I could be surprised) > > - not sure what out-of-box touch sense you're likely to get > > > > But I'd expect "office" software to be handled pretty happily. And you can > > have *any* window manager you want, including plenty of obscure ones! :-) > > I don't find Debian difficult to get on a laptop and working, but of > course some laptops have unsupported hardware that makes things harder. > > If you want life to be simple, try mint. My wife tried it on her ideapad > and everything just works it seems. Quite something to see for a linux > install. That is, the mint linux debian edition. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 19:33:33 2012 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 15:33:33 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120904153333.5bc3b000202ebd38cc823708@eol.ca> On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 21:29:57 -0400 sciguy-Lmt0BfyYGMw at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hello > > For anyone with an HP TX2 Touchsmart laptop, I had a lot of time on my > hands the past couple of days and attempted to try several live linux > distros with a mind to install my best choice on to a Kingston 32GB USB > stick. I ended up choosing Mint/Xfce despite a speed penalty. It did, > after all, recognise the lion's share of devices on my laptop. > > I burned 11 distros on to 11 DVDs, and scored them based on some criteria > I thought of "off the cuff": > Wireless > Touch > Stylus > Camera > Sound > Disk recognition > Office software > Ease of use (subjective scale 0(easy)-5(difficult)) > Detection and use of Network printer > Speed (subjective scale 1(slow) - 5(fast)) It has been a while since I have installed Linux on a low powered computer. I figure I have no problems loading X11, a small window manager and a fast, convenient email tool. Browsers work fine on most websites. The brick wall I always slammed into was the office suite. LaTeX, Emacs, and Gnumeric will get the job done if you communicate through pieces of paper and through websites. The moment you have to work with Microsoft Office users, you are into Open/Libre Office. Full features office suites are bloatware. Any thoughts on this? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 19:55:25 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 15:55:25 -0400 Subject: TP-LINK routers -- WEP or WPA2 in bridge mode? In-Reply-To: <1346779946.53022.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOE5A34FEqDeB/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1346769593.28926.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <50461659.9080109@rogers.com> <1346776672.52725.YahooMailNeo@web113420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <5046342B.7070801@rogers.com> <1346779946.53022.YahooMailNeo@web113419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50465CAD.3030500@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > Question about TL-WA901ND... Looking at the specs, its ethernet > port is 10/100Mbit, but wireless side is 300Mbit. Maybe it's > typo. Have you ever gone over 100Mbps in actual use? No. However, my 16 port switch is only 100 Mb. Also, with WiFi, you never get the rated speed because of the way WiFi works in that only one device transmits at a time. That 300 Mb/s is the actual maximum data rate while transmitting a frame. It's sort of like the old half duplex Ethernet networks on cable and hubs could do 10 Mb/s, but nothing obtained that rate in practice. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 20:13:30 2012 From: anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Verevkin) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 16:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OpenWRT questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Evan Leibovitch" > I purchased a TP-Link TL-WR703N wifi router on eBay for $20. It seems > to be able to do what I need -- as a light, power-sipping travel > router -- and I really only need two functions: > 2. A repeater that will magnify weak wifi signals (again, useful > in a hotel room if they have wifi but it's weak) You will have to have two radios in order to relay the signal (one working in Access point mode and the other being a wireless client). Then you can route the traffic between the zones. Otherwise you could have set up WDS mode to do the repeater job with just one radio, but you would need to change the settings of the hotel AP accordingly which is not possible in your case. So two radios it is -- either get the second router, or get the router with two radios built-in (I don't know if such exist), or you might get a chance with a USB wifi dongle connected to your USB port. This is a fun way of doing this but you would need to gain some deeper knowledge of OpenWRT to make it work. Regards, Anthony -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 20:20:57 2012 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 16:20:57 -0400 Subject: profile/speed-up boot and login time? Message-ID: Hi, I'm running ubuntu precise on my thinpad 410 laptop; the machine is a couple of years old now, so has been through the ubuntu upgrade process a number of times and has a bunch of non-standard packages on it. When I first got it it seemed lightning fast to boot up; now the boot process seems slower and slower and slower, especially the time from login prompt to workable system (wireless activated, thunderbird up and running, not switching so heavily you can't drag the mouse...). I imagine there are many possible causes, including cruft from earlier ubuntu versions and failed past experiments. Disk usage is high but I would think not crippling: matt at roke:~$ df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/sda5 38G 22G 14G 61% / udev 2.8G 4.0K 2.8G 1% /dev tmpfs 1.2G 968K 1.2G 1% /run none 5.0M 0 5.0M 0% /run/lock none 2.8G 1.9M 2.8G 1% /run/shm /dev/sda6 225G 199G 26G 89% /home /home/matt/.Private 225G 199G 26G 89% /home/matt both / and /home are ext4, though my home directory is also encrypted with ecryptfs and mounted with fuse(the default encryption option from whenever I first installed ubuntu on this thing -- not sure if it's deprecated now or still in common use). I wonder (1) what tools I might use to figure out which parts of the startup cycle are slowest, -- i know there used to be boot profilers people used, but do they also handle the period after GDM/LDM starts up? (2) if there are generic things I can do (defrag my drive? I thought that was unnecessary these days) to improve boot time ordinarily i don't worry so much about boot time, but lately this machine has taken to crashing on resume about 1 out of 10 times, so i'm rebooting a lot more often now... g Thanks, matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 20:24:42 2012 From: jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Mcintosh) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 13:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: T.R.A.C.E. - (Toronto Region Association of Computer Enthusiasts) In-Reply-To: <50461ED3.9090804-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> <50461ED3.9090804@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1346790282.74175.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I went to several meetings of T.R.A.C.E. They had a lot of money in their bank account, but had to disband for a strange reason: no one in the entire club was willing to volunteer to DO anything, or to take on responsibilities associated with any title. ? No one was willing to be president. ? No one was willing to be vice president. ? No one was willing to be secretary. ? No one was willing to DO anything whatsoever. ? Everybody wanted to benefit from club membership, but the club cannot exist without a few people doing something. ? I may still have, in many gigabytes of data, the names of various members of that club. ? I think that one member was named something like Victor Pieroban, and that he had something to do with electronic cash registers. ? People travelled for long distances to attend - Newmarket, etc. ? The abbreviation T.R.A.C.E. was more recently used for an unrelated group. I forget what. ? James E. McIntosh JamesEMcIntosh-Iimme/3Z544AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org ? ________________________________ > | BTW, anyone here remember TRACE (Toronto Region Association of Computer > | Enthusiasts)? > > I never went to a meeting, but I saw a few traces of them (eg. > newsletters). The used to meet at Humber College, but, IIRC, they also had some meetings in the Ontario Science Centre. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 20:32:20 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 16:32:20 -0400 Subject: T.R.A.C.E. - (Toronto Region Association of Computer Enthusiasts) In-Reply-To: <1346790282.74175.YahooMailNeo-WXK5sLB/SxgR8UyDmTZ/NZEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> <50461ED3.9090804@rogers.com> <1346790282.74175.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50466554.60601@rogers.com> James Mcintosh wrote: > no one in the entire club was willing to volunteer to DO anything I wrote an article for the newsletter, describing how to modify a Polymorphics video board to do inverse video (black on white) characters, instead of graphics characters. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 20:38:24 2012 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 16:38:24 -0400 Subject: T.R.A.C.E. - (Toronto Region Association of Computer Enthusiasts) In-Reply-To: <1346790282.74175.YahooMailNeo-WXK5sLB/SxgR8UyDmTZ/NZEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> <50461ED3.9090804@rogers.com> <1346790282.74175.YahooMailNeo@web140702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:24 PM, James Mcintosh wrote: > The abbreviation T.R.A.C.E. was more recently used for an unrelated group. I > forget what. When I moved back to Toronto in 1988 I started attending meetings of the Toronto Region AutoCAD Exchange at the Malton Community Centre. I stopped (or it did) in the early '90s. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 20:38:40 2012 From: jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Mcintosh) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 13:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Electrosonic In-Reply-To: <1346777554.1975.26.camel@tecumseth3> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> <1346777554.1975.26.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <1346791120.46914.YahooMailNeo@web140701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> When I checked last, Electrosonic was in northern North York, on a northwest corner on the west side of Victoria Park Avenue, about one block south of Steeles Avenue East. ? I ordered something from them when I was in high school, but I don't remember what, and that was years before I had a computer. > |? Also, going back > | many years ago, there were several stores on Yonge St, between College & > | Wellesley, including Electrosonic. James E. McIntosh JamesEMcIntosh-Iimme/3Z544AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 20:42:40 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 16:42:40 -0400 Subject: Electrosonic In-Reply-To: <1346791120.46914.YahooMailNeo-WXK5sLB/Sxhal3a5i+KC+JEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> <1346777554.1975.26.camel@tecumseth3> <1346791120.46914.YahooMailNeo@web140701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <504667C0.8030303@rogers.com> James Mcintosh wrote: > When I checked last, Electrosonic was in northern North York, on a > northwest corner on the west side of Victoria Park Avenue, about one > block south of Steeles Avenue East. Yes, it's been there for many years, but it used to be at 555 Yonge St., near Wellesley. Back in the early 70's, I was working in the old Toronto Stock Exchange building @ 234 Bay and would occasionally take the subway up to Electrosonic. Back in those days, people with an amateur radio licence were entitled to a free catalog (the size of a phone book). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 20:49:49 2012 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 16:49:49 -0400 Subject: Session saving/restoring on Ubuntu Message-ID: After many years of KDE use I decided to see how "the other half" was living and installed Ubuntu. One bit of functionality that I've been sorely missing is session saving on logout and restoring on login. Is there a way to get this working on Ubuntu? Searching is failing me since I generally tend to fall into X session stuff or other unrelated topics, but from the near-successful searches it seems that one of two things may be happening: 1. Ubuntu folks intentionally disabled Gnome session management to keep things "simple" (various web boards and mailing lists) 2. Gnome 3 doesn't actually have working session management (there were links from the Ubuntu bug tracker to the Gnome bug tracker on something session-related) Not being a Gnome person, I can't tell which is correct. I just know that whether I try Unity or Gnome Shell, there's no session management. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 20:57:20 2012 From: bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Bill Duncan) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 16:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Electrosonic In-Reply-To: <504667C0.8030303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> from "James Knott" at Sep 04, 2012 04:42:40 PM References: <504667C0.8030303@rogers.com> Message-ID: They closed that office a few years back. Not sure if Marty (VE3MR, Martin Rosenthal) still even owns it. I think their main warehouse is in Buffalo now. I used to work for Electrosonic back in the 70's.. http://www.e-sonic.com/acc/locations.aspx Regarding the T.R.A.C.E. thread, was a member of that group late 70's but dropped out early 80's for much the same reason that someone else had mentioned. [James Knott said:] > > James Mcintosh wrote: > > When I checked last, Electrosonic was in northern North York, on a > > northwest corner on the west side of Victoria Park Avenue, about one > > block south of Steeles Avenue East. > > Yes, it's been there for many years, but it used to be at 555 Yonge St., > near Wellesley. Back in the early 70's, I was working in the old > Toronto Stock Exchange building @ 234 Bay and would occasionally take > the subway up to Electrosonic. Back in those days, people with an > amateur radio licence were entitled to a free catalog (the size of a > phone book). > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Bill Duncan, bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org +1 416 697-9315 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 21:03:31 2012 From: jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Mcintosh) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 14:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Wrox Press In-Reply-To: References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1346792611.10927.YahooMailNeo@web140704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I bought a combination book and software package from Wrox Press. ? It emphasized strongly and repeatedly that it ran on DOS (MS-DOS,?PC-DOS and DR-DOS) - no need for Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, etc. ? I telephoned their technical support countless times, trying to get it to work. ? It turned out that the installation program needed Windows 95. ? The technical support people had no idea that it required Windows 95. ? Somehow they did not tell the software developers to make installation too run on DOS. James E. McIntosh JamesEMcIntosh-Iimme/3Z544AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org ? ________________________________ | I watched the "crash" from pretty close on in 2002-2003; was doing | some review work for Wrox back at that time, when they effectively | imploded.? Around 2000, all kinds of publishers were pushing out crazy | amounts of stuff, particularly in the technical book arena. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 21:10:32 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 17:10:32 -0400 Subject: Wrox Press In-Reply-To: <1346792611.10927.YahooMailNeo-WXK5sLB/SxjK0anN2EpufZEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> <1346792611.10927.YahooMailNeo@web140704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120904211032.GK1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 02:03:31PM -0700, James Mcintosh wrote: > I bought a combination book and software package from Wrox Press. > ? > It emphasized strongly and repeatedly that it ran on DOS (MS-DOS,?PC-DOS and DR-DOS) - no need for Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, etc. > ? > I telephoned their technical support countless times, trying to get it to work. > ? > It turned out that the installation program needed Windows 95. > ? > The technical support people had no idea that it required Windows 95. > ? > Somehow they did not tell the software developers to make installation too run on DOS. Wow this thread loves heading off in different directions. :) I wonder if you could do the install from wine and then run it in dosbos. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 21:10:36 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 17:10:36 -0400 Subject: Electrosonic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50466E4C.9080106@rogers.com> Hi Bill I recall running into you in both computer and amateur radio circles back in those days. Didn't you hang around what became that Altair store on Queen west of Simcoe? As I recall, a woman named "Karen" was one of the owners. BTW, the last time I was in Electrosonic was in 2006. It looked as though they were reducing the display area then. I couldn't find what I was looking for, so I went to Active Electronics, which was then right on the corner, beside Electrosonic. Bill Duncan wrote: > They closed that office a few years back. Not sure if Marty (VE3MR, > Martin Rosenthal) still even owns it. I think their main warehouse > is in Buffalo now. I used to work for Electrosonic back in the 70's.. > > http://www.e-sonic.com/acc/locations.aspx > > > Regarding the T.R.A.C.E. thread, was a member of that group late 70's > but dropped out early 80's for much the same reason that someone else > had mentioned. > > > [James Knott said:] >> James Mcintosh wrote: >>> When I checked last, Electrosonic was in northern North York, on a >>> northwest corner on the west side of Victoria Park Avenue, about one >>> block south of Steeles Avenue East. >> Yes, it's been there for many years, but it used to be at 555 Yonge St., >> near Wellesley. Back in the early 70's, I was working in the old >> Toronto Stock Exchange building @ 234 Bay and would occasionally take >> the subway up to Electrosonic. Back in those days, people with an >> amateur radio licence were entitled to a free catalog (the size of a >> phone book). >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 4 21:28:15 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 17:28:15 -0400 Subject: OpenWRT questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 September 2012 16:13, Anthony Verevkin wrote: > > 2. A repeater that will magnify weak wifi signals (again, useful > > in a hotel room if they have wifi but it's weak) > > You will have to have two radios in order to relay the signal (one working > in Access point mode and the other being a wireless client). Then you can > route the traffic between the zones. Otherwise you could have set up WDS > mode to do the repeater job with just one radio, but you would need to > change the settings of the hotel AP accordingly which is not possible in > your case. So two radios it is -- either get the second router, or get the > router with two radios built-in (I don't know if such exist), or you might > get a chance with a USB wifi dongle connected to your USB port. This is a > fun way of doing this but you would need to gain some deeper knowledge of > OpenWRT to make it work. > Or I could have stuck with the factory Chinese ROM :-P. Repeater mode was claimed in the stock version. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 5 00:43:38 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 20:43:38 -0400 Subject: Electrosonic In-Reply-To: <1346791120.46914.YahooMailNeo-WXK5sLB/Sxhal3a5i+KC+JEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> <1346777554.1975.26.camel@tecumseth3> <1346791120.46914.YahooMailNeo@web140701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah, that was when they were on Gordon Baker Road. They are long gone from that location. Peter > When I checked last, Electrosonic was in northern North York, on a > northwest corner on the west side of Victoria Park Avenue, about one block > south of Steeles Avenue East. > ? > I ordered something from them when I was in high school, but I don't > remember what, and that was years before I had a computer. > >> |? Also, going back >> | many years ago, there were several stores on Yonge St, between College >> & >> | Wellesley, including Electrosonic. > > James E. McIntosh > JamesEMcIntosh-Iimme/3Z544AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 5 02:14:05 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 22:14:05 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: <50461ED3.9090804-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> <50461ED3.9090804@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5046B56D.1090001@gmail.com> On 12-09-04 11:31 , James Knott wrote: > > The used to meet at Humber College, but, IIRC, they also had some > meetings in the Ontario Science Centre. Was T.R.A.C.E. in any way related to the Ontario Science Centre Amateur Radio Club, VE3OSC? Or was there just some natural overlap? Not that the club (now VA3CTA) can meet in the Science Centre any more, though ... Stewart VA3PID -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 5 02:16:57 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 22:16:57 -0400 Subject: Electrosonic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5046B619.9060906@gmail.com> On 12-09-04 16:57 , Bill Duncan wrote: > They closed that office a few years back. Not sure if Marty (VE3MR, > Martin Rosenthal) still even owns it. Yes, he does (or did the last time I met Les Gondor, e-sonic's IT person). VE3MR's antenna is not up in the new location; it's just south of the Buttonville runway ... cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 5 02:29:17 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 22:29:17 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: <5046B56D.1090001-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> <50461ED3.9090804@rogers.com> <5046B56D.1090001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5046B8FD.9070807@rogers.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: >> >The used to meet at Humber College, but, IIRC, they also had some >> >meetings in the Ontario Science Centre. > Was T.R.A.C.E. in any way related to the Ontario Science Centre Amateur > Radio Club, VE3OSC? Or was there just some natural overlap? Not that the > club (now VA3CTA) can meet in the Science Centre any more, though ... No, they were not related. IIRC, someone in TRACE worked at the OSC or knew someone there. Not sure though. BTW, I operated that station at OSC a few times. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 5 04:03:19 2012 From: torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 05:03:19 +0100 Subject: Sandy Bridge Message-ID: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> Does anyone now whether any slackware distributions have support for the Intel Sandy Bridge Integrated Graphics controller I just purchased an Acer Aspire V5-5 computer which is equipped with that chipset. Linux, apart from X, works perfectly but it is impossible to startx Thanks in advance. -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 5 05:23:44 2012 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 01:23:44 -0400 Subject: Sandy Bridge In-Reply-To: <84392xw1yw.fsf-GANU6spQydw@public.gmane.org> References: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: <20120905012344.796187eb@herring_sucker.example.net> On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 05:03:19 +0100 Slack Rat wrote: > Does anyone now whether any slackware distributions have support for > the Intel Sandy Bridge Integrated Graphics controller > > I just purchased an Acer Aspire V5-5 computer which is equipped with > that chipset. > > Linux, apart from X, works perfectly but it is impossible to startx > > Thanks in advance. According to what I've read, Slackware 14 has gcc-4.7.1, which supports Sandy Bridge. Slack 14 is at RC4 and should be out within a few weeks. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org gstrom57-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 5 06:11:36 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 02:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sandy Bridge In-Reply-To: <20120905012344.796187eb@herring_sucker.example.net> References: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> <20120905012344.796187eb@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: | From: Glen Strom | According to what I've read, Slackware 14 has gcc-4.7.1, which supports | Sandy Bridge. Slack 14 is at RC4 and should be out within a few weeks. How could support for Sandy Bridge video depend on the GCC version? Some kind of bug? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 5 06:13:30 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 02:13:30 -0400 Subject: Sandy Bridge In-Reply-To: <20120905012344.796187eb@herring_sucker.example.net> References: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> <20120905012344.796187eb@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: <20120905061330.GA26982@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Sep 05, 2012 at 01:23:44AM -0400, Glen Strom wrote: > On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 05:03:19 +0100 > Slack Rat wrote: > > > Does anyone now whether any slackware distributions have support for > > the Intel Sandy Bridge Integrated Graphics controller > > > > I just purchased an Acer Aspire V5-5 computer which is equipped with > > that chipset. > > > > Linux, apart from X, works perfectly but it is impossible to startx > > > > Thanks in advance. > > According to what I've read, Slackware 14 has gcc-4.7.1, which > supports Sandy Bridge. Slack 14 is at RC4 and should be out within a > few weeks. Isn't this driver/hardware issue in OP's Acer laptop, rather than compiler issue? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 5 13:47:18 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 09:47:18 -0400 Subject: Rack space at 151 Front Street. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm dealing with a not-for-profit that currently has some rack space at 151 Front St., but the group is asking the question "Is the grass greener somewhere else?". So, who knows who could give a quote on a handful of U rack space? Thanks. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 5 13:48:24 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 09:48:24 -0400 Subject: Rack space at 151 Front Street. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50475828.6080209@alteeve.ca> On 09/05/2012 09:47 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > I'm dealing with a not-for-profit that currently has some rack space > at 151 Front St., but the group is asking the question "Is the grass > greener somewhere else?". So, who knows who could give a quote on a > handful of U rack space? > > Thanks. > > Colin. We looked around a few months ago and settled on Peer1 at 151 Front. So no, not from our perspective. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 5 17:07:28 2012 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 13:07:28 -0400 Subject: Session saving/restoring on Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Andrej Marjan wrote: > After many years of KDE use I decided to see how "the other half" was living > and installed Ubuntu. One bit of functionality that I've been sorely missing > is session saving on logout and restoring on login. > > Is there a way to get this working on Ubuntu? > > Searching is failing me since I generally tend to fall into X session stuff > or other unrelated topics, but from the near-successful searches it seems > that one of two things may be happening: > > 1. Ubuntu folks intentionally disabled Gnome session management to keep > things "simple" (various web boards and mailing lists) > 2. Gnome 3 doesn't actually have working session management (there were > links from the Ubuntu bug tracker to the Gnome bug tracker on something > session-related) > > Not being a Gnome person, I can't tell which is correct. I just know that > whether I try Unity or Gnome Shell, there's no session management. > > Thanks. I think that in the old days, the problem was that ubuntu purposely disabled session management; with some tweaks you could gett it restored again. In the new era (post-Unity) I think the problem is more severe -- there's no session-management capability within unity, and perhaps it's been eliminated from gnome-shell as well. In cases where ubuntu is working well this is not such a big issue, becuase you pretty well never reboot. my lightdm session has started crashing spontaneously though; so now I really notice the issue. matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 5 21:28:47 2012 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 17:28:47 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 4 September 2012 11:21, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I was thrilled and amazed by the first computer store I remember in > Toronto (1975). I forget it's name, but it was in a house on > Gloucester (parallel to Wellesley, a few streets north) between Yonge > and Church. They sold these cute Poly 88 computers and lots of other > things > > An early S100 that didn't have switches and lights. I bought my Poly 88 kit in July 1977 from Computer Mart Ltd. 1543 Bayview Ave. I still have it. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 6 06:42:03 2012 From: marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 02:42:03 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop In-Reply-To: <20120904174630.GI1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120904174608.GH1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120904174630.GI1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: How do you find the Mint Debian edition? I am looking for a rolling distribution, but I am concerned about losing compatibility with Ubuntu and its large repositories. Thanks Marc 2012/9/4 Lennart Sorensen > On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 01:46:08PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 08:37:22PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > I'd be curious as to how stock Debian compares... It can certainly be > > > tiny, more so than most options out there. > > > > > > Expected challenges to me would be... > > > - might need to pull custom kernel to support hardware, as Debian has a > > > tendency to elderly kernels in stable releases > > > - I'm not sure WiFi support is necessarily what all would term > "friendly" > > > (mind you, haven't tried that lately, so I could be surprised) > > > - not sure what out-of-box touch sense you're likely to get > > > > > > But I'd expect "office" software to be handled pretty happily. And > you can > > > have *any* window manager you want, including plenty of obscure ones! > :-) > > > > I don't find Debian difficult to get on a laptop and working, but of > > course some laptops have unsupported hardware that makes things harder. > > > > If you want life to be simple, try mint. My wife tried it on her ideapad > > and everything just works it seems. Quite something to see for a linux > > install. > > That is, the mint linux debian edition. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 6 14:20:10 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 10:20:10 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop In-Reply-To: References: <20120904174608.GH1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120904174630.GI1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120906142010.GA15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 02:42:03AM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > How do you find the Mint Debian edition? Well my wife thinks it works well. If you mean how do you get it, then go to linuxmint.org, point at download and choose Linux Mint Debian. I am going to stick with debian unstable myself. > I am looking for a rolling distribution, but I am concerned about losing > compatibility with Ubuntu and its large repositories. Debian has large repositories. Ubuntu is quite a bit smaller. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 6 14:30:15 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 10:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Scott Allen | On 4 September 2012 11:21, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > I was thrilled and amazed by the first computer store I remember in | > Toronto (1975). I forget it's name, but it was in a house on | > Gloucester (parallel to Wellesley, a few streets north) between Yonge | > and Church. They sold these cute Poly 88 computers and lots of other | > things | > | > An early S100 that didn't have switches and lights. | | I bought my Poly 88 kit in July 1977 from | Computer Mart Ltd. | 1543 Bayview Ave. | | I still have it. Wow. That seemed to me to be about the first micro done right, at least on the surface, so to speak. It had enough of a monitor in ROM that you didn't need a bank of switches. It eliminated a TON of TTL circuitry, not to mention all the wiring and the switches and lights themselves. It also made to box small and light, but not photogenic (it didn't appear in WarGames ). Of course that made it a little less useful for hardware debugging, but I didn't want a computer optimized for hardware debugging. Polycom distributed a neat poster advertising the Poly 88. I used it quite a bit as an 8080 reference card. I still have it somewhere. When did you last turn your Poly 88 on? I've not turned my Altair on in 20 years and now I've heard that I ought to go through a careful bring-up procedure because failing capacitors might take a lot of other bits with them. (I bought my Altair, used, much later -- 1981.) BTW, when I said Computermaster (yes, that was its name -- thanks, James) had lots of other things, I was exagerating. They had a few and could order lots of others. An example of what I remember: they had a 40-column printer, with a bunch of tradeoffs to reduce its price, for $400. Real printers (Qume, etc) were a LOT more expensive. Instead of buying a computer at that time, I bought a clone of an IBM 2741: a terminal that had at its core an IBM Selectric typewriter. Speed: 134.5 baud (15 characters per second). It had a built-in modem with an acoustic coupler (i.e. you dialed up on a regular NE 500 style telephone and then placed the handset in the coupler). To use it, I hacked 5th or 6th Edition UNIX to support the 2741. Not actually easy: the character set was unrelated to ASCII (it was "tilt rotate code, encoding the position on the typeball of the character), shift was a character, the terminal was viciously half duplex (when the keyboard was unlocked, the computer could not print, and vice versa, and switching directions required an explicit act of the side in control). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 6 15:53:56 2012 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 11:53:56 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> <5044A98D.7070909@gmail.com> <5044C233.6090906@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 6 September 2012 10:30, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Scott Allen > | I bought my Poly 88 kit in July 1977 from > | Computer Mart Ltd. > > That seemed to me to be about the first micro done right, at least on > the surface, so to speak. It had enough of a monitor in ROM that you > didn't need a bank of switches. Yes, the monitor in ROM was one of my reasons for buying it instead of an Altair. I was leaning towards getting a Processor Technology Sol but a friend convinced me to get the Poly 88. We bought one each at the same time (I don't think we got a quantity discount :-) It cost $925 plus taxes for the System 2 kit. I also bought, from the same place, a 7" B&W composite input monitor (intended for security camera systems) for about $200. Later, I bought a 32K dynamic RAM card, a North Star floppy controller and a Shugart 5 1/4" floppy drive for it. I also designed and built an S100 I/O board for it, which contianed 4K static RAM, lots of parallel I/O ports, ADC inputs, DAC output, and other stuff. > When did you last turn your Poly 88 on? I've not turned my Altair on > in 20 years and now I've heard that I ought to go through a careful > bring-up procedure because failing capacitors might take a lot of > other bits with them. It's probably been about 10 to 15 years since I last had the Poly running. It may still work but, as you said, I'd like to test all the big electrolytics and other circuitry in the power supply, under a dummy load, before using it to power up the system. It's pretty far down on my "things to do when I get some spare time" list. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 6 23:09:08 2012 From: marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 19:09:08 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop In-Reply-To: <20120906142010.GA15652-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120904174608.GH1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120904174630.GI1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120906142010.GA15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Thanks Lennart. That's encouraging. I want to give it a try. My servers are Debian-based, one more reason to get closer to Debian. Marc 2012/9/6 Lennart Sorensen > On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 02:42:03AM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > > How do you find the Mint Debian edition? > > Well my wife thinks it works well. > > If you mean how do you get it, then go to linuxmint.org, point at download > and choose Linux Mint Debian. > > I am going to stick with debian unstable myself. > > > I am looking for a rolling distribution, but I am concerned about losing > > compatibility with Ubuntu and its large repositories. > > Debian has large repositories. Ubuntu is quite a bit smaller. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 00:27:30 2012 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 20:27:30 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <50490732.16972.3A1A51A9@sciguy.vex.net> That would have been an interesting one, but I was concentrating on obscure distros, particularly those that claimed to be built for situations with limited space from the outset. Manjaro Linux finally won me over. No distro worked well from a USB stick -- slowness was always an issue. I neded up making room on my HD, and I ended up with a very fast system on a 10G partition, not including 2G swap on an SSD drive. Wireless, cat-5, and all manner of touch (finger and pen) all work. Paul -------------------------------------------------- On 31 Aug 2012 at 20:37, Christopher Browne wrote: I'd be curious as to how stock Debian compares... It can certainly be tiny, more so than most options out there. Expected challenges to me would be... - might need to pull custom kernel to support hardware, as Debian has a tendency to elderly kernels in stable releases - I'm not sure WiFi support is necessarily what all would term "friendly" (mind you, haven't tried that lately, so I could be surprised) - not sure what out-of-box touch sense you're likely to get But I'd expect "office" software to be handled pretty happily. And you can have *any* window manager you want, including plenty of obscure ones! :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 00:27:30 2012 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 20:27:30 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop In-Reply-To: References: , <20120904174630.GI1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>, Message-ID: <50490732.29406.3A1A5255@sciguy.vex.net> I would have stuck with mint/xfce, but I found the overall speed to be slow. If I had a larger SSD drive, I probably would have used it. The combination of Mint/Gnome and Mint/xfce (more so with Gnome) caused my mouse to be too jumpy and out of control, which was a major factr in choosing Manjaro Linux/xfce, which had a small footprint and a stable mouse. Manjaro had a unique "problem" in that the video driver it chose to load when I asked for a non-free driver, was a test driver. There was a watermark on the lower right of the screen saying "AMD testing use only", containing the AMD logo. Someone at the Manjaro forums showed me a sed/awk hack that got rid of the watermark, and now I have a system that is a bit more presentable and a lot more liveable. Manjaro suffers a bit from the fact that it is quite new (my version is 0.8.0), and a lot of files are located in non-standard places, such as having most conf files and passwd files under the root account (/root) (including what should be /etc/passwd). No ordinary user can see files in /root. My manjaro distro, after installing Python libs and some office goodies (like LibreO) is around 5.4 Gigs. Paul King -------------------------------------------------- On 6 Sep 2012 at 2:42, Marc Lijour wrote: How do you find the Mint Debian edition? I am looking for a rolling distribution, but I am concerned about losing compatibility with Ubuntu and its large repositories. Thanks Marc 2012/9/4 Lennart Sorensen On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 01:46:08PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 08:37:22PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > I'd be curious as to how stock Debian compares... It can certainly be > > tiny, more so than most options out there. > > > > Expected challenges to me would be... > > - might need to pull custom kernel to support hardware, as Debian has a > > tendency to elderly kernels in stable releases > > - I'm not sure WiFi support is necessarily what all would term "friendly" > > (mind you, haven't tried that lately, so I could be surprised) > > - not sure what out-of-box touch sense you're likely to get > > > > But I'd expect "office" software to be handled pretty happily. And you can > > have *any* window manager you want, including plenty of obscure ones! :-) > > I don't find Debian difficult to get on a laptop and working, but of > course some laptops have unsupported hardware that makes things harder. > > If you want life to be simple, try mint. My wife tried it on her ideapad > and everything just works it seems. Quite something to see for a linux > install. That is, the mint linux debian edition. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 01:03:58 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 21:03:58 -0400 Subject: UPS dying... Message-ID: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> My UPS seems to be dying. It's an APC Back-UPS XS 1000, which I've had for several years. Recently it has begun to trip into "Overload" mode for no apparent reason (no particular load was being put on it), at random but ever-more-frequently occurring times. The battery is probably no longer holding its charge, and hence the "overload" it reports. So it's time to get a new UPS. I have a computer with a 650w power supply, a monitor, and a few miscellaneous devices to run. Only the computer and monitor need go through the UPS backup power, but it would be convenient to have surge protection for the other devices. I don't need much time on the battery; a few minutes should be enough for an automatic controlled Linux shutdown. How "much" is enough -- is 1000w fine, or go for 1500w for the extra margin? I don't have a clue about these things. Advice, suggestions, recommendations? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 01:09:31 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 21:09:31 -0400 Subject: UPS dying... In-Reply-To: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> References: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> Message-ID: <5049494B.1070402@rogers.com> On 12-09-06 09:03 PM, Peter King wrote: > My UPS seems to be dying. > > It's an APC Back-UPS XS 1000, which I've had for several > years. Recently it has begun to trip into "Overload" mode > for no apparent reason (no particular load was being put > on it), at random but ever-more-frequently occurring times. > > The battery is probably no longer holding its charge, and > hence the "overload" it reports. > > So it's time to get a new UPS. > > Why not just replace the battery? http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=APCRBC123 -- Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 01:34:35 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 21:34:35 -0400 Subject: UPS dying... In-Reply-To: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> References: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> Message-ID: <50494F2B.7000707@alteeve.ca> On 09/06/2012 09:03 PM, Peter King wrote: > My UPS seems to be dying. > > It's an APC Back-UPS XS 1000, which I've had for several > years. Recently it has begun to trip into "Overload" mode > for no apparent reason (no particular load was being put > on it), at random but ever-more-frequently occurring times. > > The battery is probably no longer holding its charge, and > hence the "overload" it reports. > > So it's time to get a new UPS. > > I have a computer with a 650w power supply, a monitor, and > a few miscellaneous devices to run. Only the computer and > monitor need go through the UPS backup power, but it would > be convenient to have surge protection for the other devices. > > I don't need much time on the battery; a few minutes should > be enough for an automatic controlled Linux shutdown. > > How "much" is enough -- is 1000w fine, or go for 1500w for > the extra margin? I don't have a clue about these things. > > Advice, suggestions, recommendations? The rated wattage of your PSU is not an indication of the current draw. Unless you have some serious hardware in your machine, you are likely drawing less than 200w on average (at least that's the load I see in most cases). Part of the question depends on what you want your UPS to do for you. Do you want to use it to shut down your system when the battery is almost out? If so, you'll want to check against apcupsd to ensure the model you are looking at isn't using the new, as-yet unsupported interface. The network-managed interface is fine. Don't confuse VA with wattage support, too. The APC BR700G might be perfectly adequate for you (700VA, 420w max draw, ~14m hold-up at 200w). http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BR700G&total_watts=200 If it's not enough, you can look at the higher-capacity BackUPS. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 01:35:10 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 21:35:10 -0400 Subject: UPS dying... In-Reply-To: <5049494B.1070402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> <5049494B.1070402@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50494F4E.1090300@alteeve.ca> On 09/06/2012 09:09 PM, Stephen wrote: > On 12-09-06 09:03 PM, Peter King wrote: >> My UPS seems to be dying. >> >> It's an APC Back-UPS XS 1000, which I've had for several >> years. Recently it has begun to trip into "Overload" mode >> for no apparent reason (no particular load was being put >> on it), at random but ever-more-frequently occurring times. >> >> The battery is probably no longer holding its charge, and >> hence the "overload" it reports. >> >> So it's time to get a new UPS. >> >> > Why not just replace the battery? > > http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=APCRBC123 The symptoms he's describing are possibly unrelated to the battery. It would be a somewhat expensive gamble. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 01:40:53 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 21:40:53 -0400 Subject: UPS dying... In-Reply-To: <16952_1346981747_q871ZlpR017034_50494F4E.1090300-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> <5049494B.1070402@rogers.com> <16952_1346981747_q871ZlpR017034_50494F4E.1090300@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <20120907014053.GA31026@amber> On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 09:35:10PM -0400, Digimer wrote: > On 09/06/2012 09:09 PM, Stephen wrote: > > On 12-09-06 09:03 PM, Peter King wrote: > >> My UPS seems to be dying. > >> > >> So it's time to get a new UPS. > >> > >> > > Why not just replace the battery? > > > > http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=APCRBC123 > > The symptoms he's describing are possibly unrelated to the battery. It > would be a somewhat expensive gamble. My thought exactly -- the system is expensive and the UPS, at least comparatively, is not. And I've had enough of flaky hardware for the time being. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 04:25:16 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 00:25:16 -0400 Subject: Sandy Bridge In-Reply-To: <84392xw1yw.fsf-GANU6spQydw@public.gmane.org> References: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: <20120907042516.GB2376@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Sep 05, 2012 at 05:03:19AM +0100, Slack Rat wrote > Does anyone now whether any slackware distributions have support for the > Intel Sandy Bridge Integrated Graphics controller Please run (as root or sudo)... lspci -v | less ...and post the portion about the "VGA compatible controller:" -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 14:35:32 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 10:35:32 -0400 Subject: UPS dying... In-Reply-To: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> References: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> Message-ID: <20120907143532.GB15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 09:03:58PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > My UPS seems to be dying. > > It's an APC Back-UPS XS 1000, which I've had for several > years. Recently it has begun to trip into "Overload" mode > for no apparent reason (no particular load was being put > on it), at random but ever-more-frequently occurring times. > > The battery is probably no longer holding its charge, and > hence the "overload" it reports. > > So it's time to get a new UPS. Why not a new battery? It's possible that it won't help if it really is having issues, but a bad battery can certainly make the UPS unhappy. > I have a computer with a 650w power supply, a monitor, and > a few miscellaneous devices to run. Only the computer and > monitor need go through the UPS backup power, but it would > be convenient to have surge protection for the other devices. > > I don't need much time on the battery; a few minutes should > be enough for an automatic controlled Linux shutdown. > > How "much" is enough -- is 1000w fine, or go for 1500w for > the extra margin? I don't have a clue about these things. Remember UPSs are NOT rated in watts. They are rated in VA which is not at all the same thing. a 1000VA (like you have) is probably around 700W. on the other hand it is unlikely your computer actually hits 650W. Still you are probably rather close to the overload point for that UPS. If that power supply has power factor correction (as it likely does given its size), then a slight drop in the voltage on the line will increase the current drawn to make up for it, and that could then cause an overload to suddenly happen. > Advice, suggestions, recommendations? Well if money is no object an APC SmartUPS 1500 is always great. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 14:49:10 2012 From: torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 15:49:10 +0100 Subject: Sandy Bridge In-Reply-To: <20120907042516.GB2376-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> (Walter Dnes's message of "Fri, 7 Sep 2012 00:25:16 -0400") References: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> <20120907042516.GB2376@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <84627plwgp.fsf@free.fr> "Walter Dnes" a ?crit profondement: | On Wed, Sep 05, 2012 at 05:03:19AM +0100, Slack Rat wrote | > Does anyone now whether any slackware distributions have support for the | > Intel Sandy Bridge Integrated Graphics controller > | Please run (as root or sudo)... > | lspci -v | less > | ...and post the portion about the "VGA compatible controller:" [QUOTE] lspci | grep VGA 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Sandy Bridge Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09) [/QUOTE] Now this is the only "Sandy Bridge" item in the box Computer is Acer Aspire V5-531-967B4G32Makk which I cannot find listed anywhere except the box it came in (Bought in PT) It came with Windows 7, but I took that off as it only has Portuguese as a language notwithstanding that the package says EN/PT/ES I had to take that off since the install is vicious and notwithstanding I can manage most EU languages, including ES, PT is very different from ES in many aspects contrary to my - and in fact general - belief. So I installed Slack 13.1 - installs fine but no X So I installed Slack 13.37 - installs fine but no X Reinstalled Win XP of which My daughter has a legal package and the Acer limps for want of a better word. (If you've formatted the drive there's no immediate hope of reinstalling Win 7 as there is no disk and you only get one kick at cat for the language if you can reinstall Win 7. You are stuck with PT which is what the original install meted out. Trick is first to change Sata Mode in the BIOS to IDE from AHCI and go for XP - But don't try to load Linux dual boot after that or you'll think you are in BSD according to fdisk with different sector sizes and weird drive designations and "unallocated spaces" ) I have Optimus Kanguru as mobile Dial Up Broad band, but it too is a disaster and a big rip off coming in at around 3Mb/Sec and only works on Windows. I'll go EuroSat as soon as I can solve my problems with video. So I'm waiting hopefully for Slack 14 and failing that shall have to change distros after going on 20 years with Slack. Any help will be greatly apprecisted - Thanks in advance. -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 15:27:23 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 11:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sandy Bridge In-Reply-To: <84627plwgp.fsf-GANU6spQydw@public.gmane.org> References: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> <20120907042516.GB2376@waltdnes.org> <84627plwgp.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: | From: Slack Rat | Computer is Acer Aspire V5-531-967B4G32Makk which I cannot find listed | anywhere except the box it came in (Bought in PT) Here are specs BUT they generic for V5-531. http://support.acer.com/acerpanam/notebook/2012/Acer/Aspire/V5-531/V5-531sp2.shtml Footnote 1: "Specifications vary depending on model." How useless. | It came with Windows 7, but I took that off as it only has Portuguese | as a language notwithstanding that the package says EN/PT/ES Sometimes you have to make that choice at the very first instance and never allowed to change it later. I think that I've seen the choice stamped into the recovery partition, but I'm not sure. If it is within the first 90 days (I think), and you mumble an excuse, Acer Support will send you recovery disks. Otherwise, they'll charge you for them. I don't know where they get off deciding that the software warranty is only 90 days. Maybe the EU forces it to be longer there. If you purchased it recently enough, you will be able get a Win8 upgrade for Microsoft for about $15. Otherwise, US$40 will get you a Win8 upgrade. I would guess that that upgrade will not require a working Windows installation. Here's Acer PT's version of the offer (if I get the gist of the Portugese; notice how much is actually in English): You can currently download a test version of Win8 that expires in January. It seems to be willing to install to a partition without wiping the rest of the disk (unlike many other Windows intallations). | I had to take that off since the install is vicious and notwithstanding | I can manage most EU languages, including ES, PT is very different from | ES in many aspects contrary to my - and in fact general - belief. Really? Is that just orthograpy, or is it something deeper. | So I installed Slack 13.1 - installs fine but no X | | So I installed Slack 13.37 - installs fine but no X I understand this to be purely a matter of the age of the X. I understand that Intel has maintained their driver quite well but this chip is relatively recent, and the pipeline fromm the X developers to a packaged distro usually involves many months of delays. Can you force it to use the vesa driver? That is generally a clumsy fallback. Often it gets the resolution wrong but otherwise works (slowly). | Reinstalled Win XP of which My daughter has a legal package and the Acer | limps for want of a better word. I would expect no Win XP support for modern hardware. Less chance than Slackware! | (If you've formatted the drive there's | no immediate hope of reinstalling Win 7 as there is no disk and you only | get one kick at cat for the language if you can reinstall Win 7. You are | stuck with PT which is what the original install meted out. Trick is | first to change Sata Mode in the BIOS to IDE from AHCI and go for XP - | But don't try to load Linux dual boot after that or you'll think you are | in BSD according to fdisk with different sector sizes and weird drive | designations and "unallocated spaces" ) Now I see that you are saying some of what I'm saying. Does that mean you do have the disks or partition to restore Win7 PT? If so, and you are withing 90 days, you can get Acer support to change the language for you. Or google for a hack to accomplish that. | So I'm waiting hopefully for Slack 14 and failing that shall have to | change distros after going on 20 years with Slack. Surely there are slack-specific fora that might include folks who would answer your primary question: how to use sandy-bridge video with Slack. I'm embarassed to know more about Windows installations than Slackware installations. Why not use, say, Debian for a few months while you wait for Slack to catch up. Switching between Linux distros isn't too jarring. My understanding is less dictatorial obout your setup than other distros and may let you approximate Slackware in look-and-feel (if not init scripts). I am expecting the delivery of a Sandy Bridge notebook shortly and will possibly share your pain. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 15:40:56 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 11:40:56 -0400 Subject: Free HST Modem Message-ID: <504A1588.6080306@rogers.com> I am cleaning out the closet Does anyone have a use for the subject? -- Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 15:48:19 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 11:48:19 -0400 Subject: Free HST Modem In-Reply-To: <504A1588.6080306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <504A1588.6080306@rogers.com> Message-ID: When I have something like this to get rid of, I will either take it to Planet Geek (good folks who place older computers into the hands of folks who would not be able to afford computers otherwise) OR I will take it to the next GTALug meeting. Either way I always seem to find a taker for older hardware... Colin McGregor On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Stephen wrote: > I am cleaning out the closet > > Does anyone have a use for the subject? > > -- > Stephen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 16:10:45 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 12:10:45 -0400 Subject: Free HST Modem In-Reply-To: <504A1588.6080306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <504A1588.6080306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <504A1C85.7080006@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > Does anyone have a use for the subject? Nope. I also have a USR Courier that's been upgraded to V.42 here collecting dust. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 16:31:33 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:31:33 -0400 Subject: Free HST Modem In-Reply-To: <504A1C85.7080006-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <504A1588.6080306@rogers.com> <504A1C85.7080006@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120907163133.GC15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 07, 2012 at 12:10:45PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Nope. I also have a USR Courier that's been upgraded to V.42 here > collecting dust. I have a courier v.everything upgraded to v.90. But I am keeping that. Those things are indestructible. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 16:40:01 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 12:40:01 -0400 Subject: Free HST Modem In-Reply-To: <20120907163133.GC15652-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <504A1588.6080306@rogers.com> <504A1C85.7080006@rogers.com> <20120907163133.GC15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <504A2361.1020805@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 07, 2012 at 12:10:45PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> Nope. I also have a USR Courier that's been upgraded to V.42 here >> collecting dust. > I have a courier v.everything upgraded to v.90. But I am keeping that. > Those things are indestructible. > My mistake. Mine's a V.90 too. It does the full 56k/33.6k that analog dial up modems reached. However, it's been years since I've used it. When I bought that Courier Dual Standard modem from CRS, it could do a blazing 14.4k IIRC. I later upgraded it by replacing the daughter board. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 16:41:38 2012 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:41:38 -0400 Subject: Sandy Bridge In-Reply-To: References: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> <20120907042516.GB2376@waltdnes.org> <84627plwgp.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: <20120907124138.20280dc4@herring_sucker.example.net> On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 11:27:23 -0400 (EDT) "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > Surely there are slack-specific fora that might include folks who > would answer your primary question: how to use sandy-bridge video with > Slack. > The best Slackware forum is at http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/ . That's where all the developers hang out. Pat Volkerding shows up from time to time to answer questions. Scroll down about 1/2 way to Linux - Distributions and you'll see a link to the Slackware forum. You'll need to register to post. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org gstrom57-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 19:03:28 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 15:03:28 -0400 Subject: Java JVM architecture Message-ID: Afternoon, I am curious if anyone have come across a good article or book that describe how JVM operates. Stuff like how it maps its allocated memory into the operating system virtual memory, how it manage the memory and how one can control it, java security from the system admin point of view. All I have seen is how to allocate heap memory and total residence memory allocation Thanks William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 19:58:00 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 15:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Java JVM architecture In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi | I am curious if anyone have come across a good article or book that | describe how JVM operates. There are several JVMs. To be honest, I don't actually know how many. To understand them all at once, one should understand the specification. | Stuff like how it maps its allocated memory into | the operating system virtual memory, how it manage the memory and how one | can control it, I'm not sure if that would be specified. I would expect each JVM to make different tradeoffs (some not documented). | java security from the system admin point of view. That's a bit of a nebulous topic. Lots of issues could fit under that, I think. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 7 22:28:54 2012 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 18:28:54 -0400 Subject: $89 UG802 Android 4.0 Mini PC with RK3066 chip: video overview - Liliputing Message-ID: http://liliputing.com/2012/09/89-ug802-android-4-0-mini-pc-with-rk3066-chip-video-overview.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 8 01:19:28 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:19:28 -0400 Subject: Sandy Bridge In-Reply-To: <84627plwgp.fsf-GANU6spQydw@public.gmane.org> References: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> <20120907042516.GB2376@waltdnes.org> <84627plwgp.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: <20120908011928.GA1711@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Sep 07, 2012 at 03:49:10PM +0100, Slack Rat wrote > "Walter Dnes" a ?crit profondement: > > | On Wed, Sep 05, 2012 at 05:03:19AM +0100, Slack Rat wrote > | > Does anyone now whether any slackware distributions have support for the > | > Intel Sandy Bridge Integrated Graphics controller > > > | Please run (as root or sudo)... > > > | lspci -v | less > > > | ...and post the portion about the "VGA compatible controller:" > > [QUOTE] > lspci | grep VGA > 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Sandy Bridge > Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09) > [/QUOTE] > > Now this is the only "Sandy Bridge" item in the box See http://intellinuxgraphics.org/2012.02.html which mentions Sandy Bridge. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 8 06:06:01 2012 From: torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 07:06:01 +0100 Subject: Sandy Bridge In-Reply-To: (D. Hugh Redelmeier's message of "Fri, 7 Sep 2012 11:27:23 -0400 (EDT)") References: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> <20120907042516.GB2376@waltdnes.org> <84627plwgp.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: <84y5kljbg6.fsf@free.fr> "D. Hugh Redelmeier" a ?crit profondement: (SNIP)(SNIP)(SNIP) I?m sending you this little gem I found as it may (or may not) be of interest to you even though it is now a little dated, and shall respond to your post at greater length later today. (QUOTE) Samsung is the first out the door with a fix for its customers. If you've already bought a Sandy Bridge-based computer, you're probably pretty discouraged at the news that there's a flaw in the chipset. Samsung has already stepped up to the plate and said that it will refund customers' money for those who have purchased a PC from the company. Fujitsu, Acer, and Lenovo did not share details on what they intend to do regarding the flaw. (QUOTE) http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sandy-bridge-chipset-flaw-refund,12119.html Thanks again for your interest in my dilemma -- Slackrat - AKA: Bill Henderson ab460ATtorfreePOINTnet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 8 13:15:47 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 09:15:47 -0400 Subject: UPS dying... In-Reply-To: <20120907143532.GB15652-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> <20120907143532.GB15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120908131546.GA6902@amber> On Fri, Sep 07, 2012 at 10:35:32AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Advice, suggestions, recommendations? > > Well if money is no object an APC SmartUPS 1500 is always great. :) Too rich for my blood, alas. But after a bit of research it seems that a good pick is the CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD, which, unlike affordable APC models, does generate a pure sine wave (rather than a stepped sine wave) current, and so works with recent active power supplies. They also claim to have a Linux version of their UPS-management software. It's rated at 1500VA, so for a demand of about 850w. Retail price is around $250. Before I actually buy it, though, I though I'd see whether anyone has any experience with this UPS (or perhaps just with CyberPower equipment in general). Views? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 8 14:39:47 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 10:39:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sandy Bridge In-Reply-To: <84y5kljbg6.fsf-GANU6spQydw@public.gmane.org> References: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> <20120907042516.GB2376@waltdnes.org> <84627plwgp.fsf@free.fr> <84y5kljbg6.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: | From: Slackrat | http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sandy-bridge-chipset-flaw-refund,12119.html If I remember correctly, this was an early problem with a particular chipset's SATA port. The CPUs were fine, but motherboards were essentially scrapped (or possibly remanufactured). Only a very few systems had been shipped with the faulty chip. Notice the date of the article: before all this was clear. See. for example, Do you think you have one of the rare systems with this bug? Is your drive SATA-II? When did you buy your notebook? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 8 14:45:25 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 10:45:25 -0400 Subject: Sandy Bridge In-Reply-To: <84y5kljbg6.fsf-GANU6spQydw@public.gmane.org> References: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> <20120907042516.GB2376@waltdnes.org> <84627plwgp.fsf@free.fr> <84y5kljbg6.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: <20120908144524.GA9704@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 07:06:01AM +0100, Slackrat wrote: > http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sandy-bridge-chipset-flaw-refund,12119.html That's early last year, almost 2 years ago. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 8 15:33:50 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 11:33:50 -0400 Subject: UPS dying... In-Reply-To: <20120908131546.GA6902@amber> References: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> <20120907143532.GB15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120908131546.GA6902@amber> Message-ID: <504B655E.9070908@alteeve.ca> On 09/08/2012 09:15 AM, Peter King wrote: > On Fri, Sep 07, 2012 at 10:35:32AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >>> Advice, suggestions, recommendations? >> >> Well if money is no object an APC SmartUPS 1500 is always great. :) > > Too rich for my blood, alas. But after a bit of research it seems that > a good pick is the CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD, which, unlike affordable APC > models, does generate a pure sine wave (rather than a stepped sine wave) > current, and so works with recent active power supplies. They also claim > to have a Linux version of their UPS-management software. It's rated at > 1500VA, so for a demand of about 850w. Retail price is around $250. > > Before I actually buy it, though, I though I'd see whether anyone has any > experience with this UPS (or perhaps just with CyberPower equipment in > general). Views? My husband went with Cyberpower to save some money, and he's been happy with it. I remember looking at them closely a year ago or so and decided to still go APC myself. I can't remember the reasons now though. Anyway, for home use, cyberpower should be just fine. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 8 15:54:08 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 11:54:08 -0400 Subject: (question) same MACs in wireless router Message-ID: <20120908155408.GA10073@node1.opengeometry.net> I just bought a dual-band wireless router (TP-LINK TL-WDR4300). It has 4 MACs: - LAN - WAN - 2.4GHz Wireless - 5GHz Wireless But, MAC for LAN and 5GHz Wirelss are the same. Is this normal? I thought they all have to be different. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 8 17:54:34 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 20:54:34 +0300 Subject: (question) same MACs in wireless router In-Reply-To: <20120908155408.GA10073-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120908155408.GA10073@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 6:54 PM, William Park wrote: > I just bought a dual-band wireless router (TP-LINK TL-WDR4300). It has > 4 MACs: > - LAN > - WAN > - 2.4GHz Wireless > - 5GHz Wireless > But, MAC for LAN and 5GHz Wirelss are the same. Is this normal? > I thought they all have to be different. > This is really strange, are you sure you are not mistaken? -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 8 18:04:45 2012 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 14:04:45 -0400 Subject: UPS dying... In-Reply-To: <20120908131546.GA6902@amber> References: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> <20120907143532.GB15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120908131546.GA6902@amber> Message-ID: CyberPower are great. I seem to recall the question being asked on here not too long ago, and I recommended CP. I have the older 1500VA LCD unit, it's sweet. They have their own Linux management software and I believe NUT works with it as well (I haven't bothered to reconfigure it since my last format). Mine is 2 years old and has supported 2 WS, 3 monitors, 2 routers and ip phone with no issues. Tons of time on this battery. - aaron On Sep 8, 2012 9:16 AM, "Peter King" wrote: > On Fri, Sep 07, 2012 at 10:35:32AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > Advice, suggestions, recommendations? > > > > Well if money is no object an APC SmartUPS 1500 is always great. :) > > Too rich for my blood, alas. But after a bit of research it seems that > a good pick is the CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD, which, unlike affordable APC > models, does generate a pure sine wave (rather than a stepped sine wave) > current, and so works with recent active power supplies. They also claim > to have a Linux version of their UPS-management software. It's rated at > 1500VA, so for a demand of about 850w. Retail price is around $250. > > Before I actually buy it, though, I though I'd see whether anyone has any > experience with this UPS (or perhaps just with CyberPower equipment in > general). Views? > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 8 18:57:55 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 14:57:55 -0400 Subject: (question) same MACs in wireless router In-Reply-To: <20120908155408.GA10073-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120908155408.GA10073@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <504B9533.5090407@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > I thought they all have to be different. MACs only have to be different on the local LAN. WiFi and Ethernet are two separate LANs bridged by the access point. Those MACs are also the same device, so there's no possibility of sending data to the wrong box. I just checked my TP-Link WA-901ND access point and it also shows the same MAC for both WiFi and LAN sides. Just a reminder for those who may have forgotten or never knew. It is the MAC address that's used to carry traffic around the local LAN, not the IP address. When a computer has to send data to another device on the local LAN, it looks up the MAC address for that IP address and then uses it to send the data. The destination receives frames for it's MAC address and then verifies the IP address if needed. When you send to a router, for forwarding elsewhere, the destination IP address is never the router's address. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 8 19:04:38 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 15:04:38 -0400 Subject: (question) same MACs in wireless router In-Reply-To: References: <20120908155408.GA10073@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <504B96C6.1040906@rogers.com> Ori Idan wrote: > This is really strange, are you sure you are not mistaken? > My access point does the same. Since there's only one IP address for the LAN side of the device, do you really want 2 MACs? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 9 02:41:13 2012 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 22:41:13 -0400 Subject: Session saving/restoring on Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Matt Price wrote: > I think that in the old days, the problem was that ubuntu purposely > disabled session management; with some tweaks you could gett it > restored again. In the new era (post-Unity) I think the problem is > more severe -- there's no session-management capability within unity, > and perhaps it's been eliminated from gnome-shell as well. > You're right, it was intentionally disabled: http://askubuntu.com/questions/129885/how-could-unity2d-save-sessions Some of the links from that page suggest session saving is generally broken in Gnome 3 as well. It's too bad that Ubuntu (Unity/Gnome) has some of the prettiest font rendering on Linux, I like the general feel of Unity, and it's a lot more aesthetically pleasing than KDE's oxygen theme, but it's seriously lacking in basic productivity features I've been using for over a decade now. In cases where ubuntu is working well this is not such a big issue, > becuase you pretty well never reboot. my lightdm session has started > crashing spontaneously though; so now I really notice the issue. > That's unfortunate. I've gotten suspend working since I managed to convince Ubuntu to actually use the newest nvidia drivers installed, but suspend isn't the same thing as session management at all. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 9 04:29:39 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 00:29:39 -0400 Subject: Sandy Bridge In-Reply-To: <84y5kljbg6.fsf-GANU6spQydw@public.gmane.org> References: <84392xw1yw.fsf@free.fr> <20120907042516.GB2376@waltdnes.org> <84627plwgp.fsf@free.fr> <84y5kljbg6.fsf@free.fr> Message-ID: <20120909042939.GD15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 07:06:01AM +0100, Slackrat wrote: > "D. Hugh Redelmeier" a ?crit profondement: > > (SNIP)(SNIP)(SNIP) > > I?m sending you this little gem I found as it may (or may not) be of > interest to you even though it is now a little dated, and shall respond > to your post at greater length later today. > > (QUOTE) > Samsung is the first out the door with a fix for its customers. > > If you've already bought a Sandy Bridge-based computer, you're probably > pretty discouraged at the news that there's a flaw in the chipset. > > Samsung has already stepped up to the plate and said that it will refund > customers' money for those who have purchased a PC from the company. > > Fujitsu, Acer, and Lenovo did not share details on what they intend to > do regarding the flaw. > (QUOTE) > > http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sandy-bridge-chipset-flaw-refund,12119.html > > Thanks again for your interest in my dilemma That is ancient news. Everyone switched to the B revision over a year ago. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 9 04:31:03 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 00:31:03 -0400 Subject: (question) same MACs in wireless router In-Reply-To: <20120908155408.GA10073-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120908155408.GA10073@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120909043103.GE15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 11:54:08AM -0400, William Park wrote: > I just bought a dual-band wireless router (TP-LINK TL-WDR4300). It has > 4 MACs: > - LAN > - WAN > - 2.4GHz Wireless > - 5GHz Wireless > But, MAC for LAN and 5GHz Wirelss are the same. Is this normal? > I thought they all have to be different. One could be connected through the other and hence share the same CPU port and hence MAC address. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 9 04:32:35 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 00:32:35 -0400 Subject: UPS dying... In-Reply-To: <20120908131546.GA6902@amber> References: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> <20120907143532.GB15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120908131546.GA6902@amber> Message-ID: <20120909043235.GF15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 08, 2012 at 09:15:47AM -0400, Peter King wrote: > Too rich for my blood, alas. But after a bit of research it seems that > a good pick is the CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD, which, unlike affordable APC > models, does generate a pure sine wave (rather than a stepped sine wave) > current, and so works with recent active power supplies. They also claim > to have a Linux version of their UPS-management software. It's rated at > 1500VA, so for a demand of about 850w. Retail price is around $250. > > Before I actually buy it, though, I though I'd see whether anyone has any > experience with this UPS (or perhaps just with CyberPower equipment in > general). Views? I am not aware of any problem. I don't remember if I have used one or not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 9 06:22:49 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 09:22:49 +0300 Subject: (question) same MACs in wireless router In-Reply-To: <504B9533.5090407-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120908155408.GA10073@node1.opengeometry.net> <504B9533.5090407@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 9:57 PM, James Knott wrote: > William Park wrote: > >> I thought they all have to be different. >> > > MACs only have to be different on the local LAN. WiFi and Ethernet are > two separate LANs bridged by the access point. Those MACs are also the > same device, so there's no possibility of sending data to the wrong box. I > just checked my TP-Link WA-901ND access point and it also shows the same > MAC for both WiFi and LAN sides. > > Just a reminder for those who may have forgotten or never knew. It is the > MAC address that's used to carry traffic around the local LAN, not the IP > address. When a computer has to send data to another device on the local > LAN, it looks up the MAC address for that IP address and then uses it to > send the data. The destination receives frames for it's MAC address and > then verifies the IP address if needed. When you send to a router, for > forwarding elsewhere, the destination IP address is never the router's > address. > > > I know that MAC address must be different at the local network only, however most of my customers manufacturing communication equipment always set a different MAC address for different interfaces. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tehowe-lJUvcdpYuyfIEIWhD7vHkg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 9 11:03:57 2012 From: tehowe-lJUvcdpYuyfIEIWhD7vHkg at public.gmane.org (Todd Howe) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 07:03:57 -0400 Subject: LPIC-1/equivalent SysAdmin courses - recommendation? In-Reply-To: <20120908155408.GA10073-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120908155408.GA10073@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1347188637.31572.15.camel@galt> Hi TLUGgers; Ryerson has a Linux SysAdmin course that I was signed up for and stoked to be taking. Unfortunately, they've now cancelled it for the fall semester as only three people signed up. (No Ryerson, I don't want to take the MS equivalent course. But thanks.) Does anyone know of any good existing drop-in replacement Linux SysAdmin courses available from Toronto (but preferably offered online)? Not having this is going to mess up my upgrading plans. (Here's the link to the cancelled course) http://ce-online.ryerson.ca/ce/calendar/default.aspx?section=course&sub=0&mode=course&ccode=CXIT%20630 Thanks; -- -____ Todd Howe ____________________ tehowe-lJUvcdpYuyfIEIWhD7vHkg at public.gmane.org ____- -____ gpg public key id E8BCABA7__tehowe on skype or twitter ____- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 490 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 9 12:20:18 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 08:20:18 -0400 Subject: (question) same MACs in wireless router In-Reply-To: <20120909043103.GE15652-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120908155408.GA10073@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120909043103.GE15652@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <504C8982.60004@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> But, MAC for LAN and 5GHz Wirelss are the same. Is this normal? >> >I thought they all have to be different. > One could be connected through the other and hence share the same CPU > port and hence MAC address. Since they're both part of the same broadcast domain, that is indeed the case. You can generally think of WiFi as an Ethernet bridge, even though the transport method is different. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 9 12:23:12 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 08:23:12 -0400 Subject: (question) same MACs in wireless router In-Reply-To: References: <20120908155408.GA10073@node1.opengeometry.net> <504B9533.5090407@rogers.com> Message-ID: <504C8A30.9060503@rogers.com> Ori Idan wrote: > I know that MAC address must be different at the local network only, > however most of my customers manufacturing communication equipment > always set a different MAC address for different interfaces. > WiFi effectively acts as a bridge. It makes no difference whether you connect to any device on the local LAN via wire or wireless. So, if there were indeed two MAC addresses, which one gets the IP address? While you can have multiple IP addresses for one MAC, you cannot have multiple MAC addresses for one IP. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 9 19:40:12 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 15:40:12 -0400 Subject: 5GHz dual-band Wireless-N -- crappy, flaky Message-ID: <20120909194012.GA6058@node1.opengeometry.net> Recently, I decided to upgrade to Dual-Band Wireless-N. So, I bought - Linksys WMP600N PCI adapter -- "300 + 300" - TP-LINK TL-WDR4300 router -- "300 + 450" Here are my feedbacks: 1. Linksys WMP600N PCI adapter: - specs says antennas are 2dBi at both 2.4GHz and 5GHz. But, 5GHz is 20dB lower than 2.4GHz. This is both at 1m distance and across my house diagonally (from basement corner to opposite corner upstairs). However, my laptop with built-in 11a/b/g (Intel Centrino) shows almost same power at 1m distance and about 5dB lower for 5GHz when going across my house. Alternative: - I should've gone with Asus PCE-N53 whose 2 antennas look different, hopefully with proper 5GHz antennas inside. 2. TP-LINK TL-WDR4300 router: - I originally bought this for "Wireless Bridge" mode, because PCI/PCI-E adapter and external antennas were adding up in cost. I just want it to connect to already existing wireless network, and bridge its 4 LAN ports to the main router. Then, I would be on the same network and get IP from the main router. - "WDS Bridge" mode didn't work. Surprise! I sent email to TP-LINK, but no reply yet. - Right now, I'm on 5GHz. It's very weak signal, but it hasn't dropped connections yet. Others are using 2.4GHz as before, and haven't notice the change over. - TL-WDR4300 configuration doesn't have QoS section. The only relevant thing I could find is WMM on/off. So, I don't know how it will handle my VoIP (Linksys ATA box, connected by LAN port) under heavy load. Alternative: - I should've gone with Asus RT-N66U which is almost the double price, but hopefully better hardware. Conclusion: As soon as I figure out how to drill hole from my room to outside, I'm going to run wire outside my house. Wireless is fine for "temporary" connections, ie. online shopping, checking mail, etc. But, for stable and fast connection, it has long way to go. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 15:38:21 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 08:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Powerline adapters Message-ID: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi, Anyone here using "Powerline" adapters? -- William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 16:04:11 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:04:11 -0400 Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOEA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 10 September 2012 11:38, William Park wrote: > Anyone here using "Powerline" adapters? They've always fascinated me, but the impression I've had is that performance doesn't exactly match the ads. Another thing to keep in mind is that in a shared house or apartment building, your network traffic could be sniffed. (Let me know if I'm wrong, but I don't think these systems have any encryption.) -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 16:40:49 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:40:49 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop Message-ID: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> I audited Ubuntu 12 a couple of months ago, and seemed to see the new Gnome that treats desktops as though they were cellphones. I hated what I saw, and stuck with 10.04 LTS. That has become a software backwater with regard to packages like git, scratch et.al. Is there a way to upgrade to 12.04 and keep my traditional desktop? Or should I just revert to Slackware times and do my own package installs? Thanks, Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 16:48:25 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 19:48:25 +0300 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > I audited Ubuntu 12 a couple of months ago, and seemed to see the new > Gnome that treats desktops as though they were cellphones. I hated what > I saw, and stuck with 10.04 LTS. That has become a software backwater > with regard to packages like git, scratch et.al. > > Is there a way to upgrade to 12.04 and keep my traditional desktop? Or > should I just revert to Slackware times and do my own package installs? > Use cinnamon by MINT, it emulates the old gnome desktop pretty well. I am using it and like it very much. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 16:49:53 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:49:53 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <504E1A31.2020404@rogers.com> On 12-09-10 12:40 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > I audited Ubuntu 12 a couple of months ago, and seemed to see the new > Gnome that treats desktops as though they were cellphones. I hated what > I saw, and stuck with 10.04 LTS. That has become a software backwater > with regard to packages like git, scratch et.al. > > Is there a way to upgrade to 12.04 and keep my traditional desktop? Or > should I just revert to Slackware times and do my own package installs? > How to return to classic Gnome in Ubuntu 12.04 Precise https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/netcooltips/entry/how_to_return_to_classic_gnome_in_ubuntu_12_04_precise12?lang=en -- Stephen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 16:57:59 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 09:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <1347296279.58733.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I thought that was "Mate" by Mint? -- William >________________________________ > From: Ori Idan >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 12:48:25 PM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop > > > > > >On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > >I audited Ubuntu 12 a couple of months ago, and seemed to see the new >>Gnome that treats desktops as though they were cellphones. ?I hated what >>I saw, and stuck with 10.04 LTS. ?That has become a software backwater >>with regard to packages like git, scratch et.al. >> >>Is there a way to upgrade to 12.04 and keep my traditional desktop? ?Or >>should I just revert to Slackware times and do my own package installs? >> > > >Use cinnamon by MINT, it emulates the old gnome desktop pretty well. >I am using it and like it very much. > > >--? >Ori Idan > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 18:24:33 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:24:33 -0400 Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120910182433.GA22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 12:04:11PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > They've always fascinated me, but the impression I've had is that > performance doesn't exactly match the ads. > > Another thing to keep in mind is that in a shared house or apartment > building, your network traffic could be sniffed. (Let me know if I'm > wrong, but I don't think these systems have any encryption.) Actually I believe most do have some form of encryption to allow modules to be registered with each other. I haven't tried any and don't want to. I like my DSL and TV and other things to work, as well as my wifi, and don't need a noise polution device in my house. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 19:59:58 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: <20120910182433.GA22046-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120910182433.GA22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1347307198.90319.YahooMailNeo@web113411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hmm... I never thought about that.? Would there be a lot of RF interference from the electrical wires? -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lennart Sorensen > On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 12:04:11PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >>??They've always fascinated me, but the impression I've had is that >>??performance doesn't exactly match the ads. >> >>??Another thing to keep in mind is that in a shared house or apartment >>??building, your network traffic could be sniffed.? (Let me know if I'm >>??wrong, but I don't think these systems have any encryption.) > > Actually I believe most do have some form of encryption to allow modules > to be registered with each other.? I haven't tried any and don't want > to. > I like my DSL and TV and other things to work, as well as my wifi, > and don't need a noise polution device in my house. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 20:14:35 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:14:35 -0400 Subject: Java JVM architecture In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks a lot Hugh > | I am curious if anyone have come across a good article or book that > | describe how JVM operates. > > There are several JVMs. To be honest, I don't actually know how many. > To understand them all at once, one should understand the > specification. > Hmm, that correct but I am not sure I need that level of detail :) its actually a good pointer though > | Stuff like how it maps its allocated memory into > | the operating system virtual memory, how it manage the memory and how one > | can control it, > > I'm not sure if that would be specified. I would expect each JVM to > make different tradeoffs (some not documented). Very true. But though there are may JVM, think sun Java (hotspots), openjdk and dalvik make 98% of those in production. So was hoping something on either of these exist > > | java security from the system admin point of view. > > That's a bit of a nebulous topic. Lots of issues could fit under > that, I think. > -- True, would be anything other than authentication and SSL be more precise? Thanks, William > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 20:14:53 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:14:53 -0400 Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: <1347307198.90319.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOGORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120910182433.GA22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1347307198.90319.YahooMailNeo@web113411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <504E4A3D.6060504@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > Hmm... I never thought about that. Would there be a lot of > RF interference from the electrical wires? Quite possibly. Cables intended to carry signals are twisted, like Ethernet or phone cables. Power cable is generally not twisted, which allows the signal to escape and potentially cause interference. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 20:23:31 2012 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: <504E4A3D.6060504-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120910182433.GA22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1347307198.90319.YahooMailNeo@web113411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <504E4A3D.6060504@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1347308611.27897.YahooMailNeo@web140606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: James Knott To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Cc: Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 4:14:53 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Powerline adapters William Park wrote: > Hmm... I never thought about that.? Would there be a lot of > RF interference from the electrical wires? Quite possibly.? Cables intended to carry signals are twisted, like Ethernet or phone cables.? Power cable is generally not twisted, which allows the signal to escape and potentially cause interference. James,? Is there any good reason why twisted pair could not be used to carry power? Just wondering idly. -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 20:36:36 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:36:36 -0400 Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: <1347308611.27897.YahooMailNeo-mhNdJOJujDavrfWm4H71L5EhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120910182433.GA22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1347307198.90319.YahooMailNeo@web113411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <504E4A3D.6060504@rogers.com> <1347308611.27897.YahooMailNeo@web140606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <504E4F54.8080204@rogers.com> DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: > Is there any good reason why twisted pair could not be used to carry power? Just wondering idly. I suspect it's just a manufacturing issue. With the power cables commonly used today, they just feed the wires into the machine that adds the sheath. Twisting requires a machine to twist the wires before the sheath is added, which adds cost. I believe twisted power cables are available, but not commonly used. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 20:40:24 2012 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:40:24 -0400 Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: <1347308611.27897.YahooMailNeo-mhNdJOJujDavrfWm4H71L5EhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120910182433.GA22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1347307198.90319.YahooMailNeo@web113411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <504E4A3D.6060504@rogers.com> <1347308611.27897.YahooMailNeo@web140606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 4:23 PM, DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: > > Is there any good reason why twisted pair could not be used to carry power? Just wondering idly. It's used quite commonly for power over ethernet (POE). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_ethernet -Vic -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 20:45:14 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:45:14 -0400 Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120910182433.GA22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1347307198.90319.YahooMailNeo@web113411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <504E4A3D.6060504@rogers.com> <1347308611.27897.YahooMailNeo@web140606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <504E515A.3030206@rogers.com> Vic Gedris wrote: > It's used quite commonly for power over ethernet (POE). > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_ethernet > PoE is used only for powering devices connected to an Ethernet switch. It is limited to 48 volts DC and about a quarter amp. Ethernet cable is *NOT* suitable for carrying household AC power. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 21:12:02 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:12:02 -0400 Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: <1347307198.90319.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOGORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120910182433.GA22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1347307198.90319.YahooMailNeo@web113411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120910211202.GB22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 12:59:58PM -0700, William Park wrote: > Hmm... I never thought about that.? Would there be a lot of > RF interference from the electrical wires? They have no shielding after all. Why would they? They were meant to carry a 60hz supply of power. HAM operators HATE powerline adapters. They also mess with TV signals in many cases (although given so many people have cable TV or satelite, it is often not the owner of the powerline adapter that has a "problem".) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 21:18:25 2012 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:18:25 -0400 Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOEA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <504E5921.9050701@look.ca> I use powerline carrier boxes (PLC?) at the cottage, where rocky outcroppings get in the way of Wifi line-of-sight. I have set up a remote Wifi router/access point with a PLC connection, and now I am installing a second PLC link and router for the same purpose, but in a different direction. The PLC stuff I have used has been reliable, and much faster than the wifi itself. I have used D-Link, and ebay-white-box PLC devices. Duncan On 10/09/12 11:38 AM, William Park wrote: > Hi, > Anyone here using "Powerline" adapters? > -- > William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 22:08:21 2012 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason A. Spiro) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 18:08:21 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop In-Reply-To: <50490732.16972.3A1A51A9-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <50490732.16972.3A1A51A9@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 8:27 PM, wrote: ... > No distro worked well from a USB > stick -- slowness was always an issue. I neded up making room on my HD, > and I ended up with a very fast system on a 10G partition, not > including 2G swap on an SSD drive. ... I've experienced this slowness too. Since you're willing to use a hard drive, I recommend the Seagate Momentus XT. AFAICT, it's the only hybrid hard drive on the market today. (It's a single 2.5" device which contains magnetic platters plus flash memory. The firmware copies data back and forth as needed so that you don't need to worry about it.) I've used one. They work fine. If you feel you must install Linux on a USB stick, see Mark Lord's aufs ram-to-disk-synchronization toolkit: . I've never tried it, but it worked fine when he demonstrated it at Linux Symposium. -- Jason Spiro: software/web developer, packager, trainer, IT consultant. I support Linux, UNIX, Windows, and more. Contact me to discuss your needs. +1 (416) 992-3445 / www.jspiro.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 22:41:19 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 18:41:19 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop In-Reply-To: References: <50490732.16972.3A1A51A9@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: > > No distro worked well from a USB > > stick -- slowness was always an issue. I neded up making room on my HD, > > and I ended up with a very fast system on a 10G partition, not > > including 2G swap on an SSD drive. > ... > > I've experienced this slowness too. > > Since you're willing to use a hard drive, I recommend the Seagate > Momentus XT. AFAICT, it's the only hybrid hard drive on the market > today. Hmm, there was also a suggestions in this group that Seagate drives are unreliable because of buggy firmware. Is this drive free from that issue? (It's a single 2.5" device which contains magnetic platters > plus flash memory. The firmware copies data back and forth as needed > so that you don't need to worry about it.) I've used one. They work > fine. > > If you feel you must install Linux on a USB stick, see Mark Lord's > aufs ram-to-disk-synchronization toolkit: > . I've never tried it, but it worked > fine when he demonstrated it at Linux Symposium. > > -- > Jason Spiro: software/web developer, packager, trainer, IT consultant. > I support Linux, UNIX, Windows, and more. Contact me to discuss your needs. > +1 (416) 992-3445 / www.jspiro.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 10 22:53:09 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 18:53:09 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: <504E1A31.2020404-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> <504E1A31.2020404@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 09/10/2012 12:49 PM, Stephen wrote: > On 12-09-10 12:40 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: >> I audited Ubuntu 12 a couple of months ago, and seemed to see the new >> Gnome that treats desktops as though they were cellphones. I hated what >> I saw, and stuck with 10.04 LTS. That has become a software backwater >> with regard to packages like git, scratch et.al. >> >> Is there a way to upgrade to 12.04 and keep my traditional desktop? Or >> should I just revert to Slackware times and do my own package installs? >> > > How to return to classic Gnome in Ubuntu 12.04 Precise > > https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/netcooltips/entry/how_to_return_to_classic_gnome_in_ubuntu_12_04_precise12?lang=en > Thanks for the link. The question is very timely also, Mel just beat me to it. I have installed 10.04 LTS for a few friends and family, none of whom seem to be interested in Unity. Has anyone tried this "fix"? Is there any loss in functionality to be concerned about? I did see something about installing gnome shell from the gnome team repository (ppa: gnome3-team/gnome3) instead of using the default Ubuntu repository gnome package (too old apparently?). Thanks, John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 01:54:57 2012 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:54:57 -0400 Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120911015457.GQ24228@adb.ca> Giles Orr wrote: > On 10 September 2012 11:38, William Park wrote: > > Anyone here using "Powerline" adapters? > > They've always fascinated me, but the impression I've had is that > performance doesn't exactly match the ads. I've pinged across such a link and watched the RTTs randomly walking past 2000 ms and back. Colour me severely unimpressed. Certainly you're not going to be enjoying streaming anything across that. > Another thing to keep in mind is that in a shared house or apartment > building, your network traffic could be sniffed. (Let me know if I'm > wrong, but I don't think these systems have any encryption.) There's crypto, and each device has a key generate/exchange button that you have to press within a limited time-window of each other (long enough to walk to the other end of the link, at least). There's in principle absolutely nothing to stop another device from joining the key-exchange party. Though a stock device would want its button pressed at party time, a hacked device might just constantly watch for an opportunity. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 02:35:58 2012 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:35:58 +1000 Subject: Java JVM architecture In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1347330958.18951.26.camel@turminder-xuss.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> On Fri, 2012-09-07 at 15:03 -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > I am curious if anyone have come across a good article or book that > describe how JVM operates. First page of search results on your subject line gives what look to be some good references. Presumably you've read http://www.artima.com/insidejvm/ed2/jvm.html and http://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jvms/se7/html/ > Stuff like how it maps its allocated memory into the operating system > virtual memory, Allocation is done with malloc (what else) in page size chunks which are then managed internally by the runtime. You're probably best off grabbing the VM source code and having a read if you need more detail than that. Open source, yo. Based on the data we have collected over the past 13 years or so of using Java in production, I'd have to say the JVM is fairly reasonable about (re)using the memory it gathers, especially on large systems with multiple CPUs and gobs of RAM. Incidentally, what top says abuot VSZ is fairly useless. Somewhat annoyingly, the JVM allocates linearly in virtual memory. This has absolutely zero impact on anything; just the upper virtual address bound grows is all, and Linux top reports 0..that as VSZ even though it has nothing to do with number of pages in use; it _looks_ bad, to be sure. See "writable memory" in e.g. gnome-system-monitor for a more useful number. > how it manage the memory and how one can control it There are about 4 billion different options you can feed to the hotspot runtime to control its behaviour. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tech/vmoptions-jsp-140102.html > , java security from the system admin point of view. That makes this all sound a bit spurious, to be honest. Are you talking about ensuring that libraries in use on your system are updated? That Java programs don't have bugs? That the standard Java library doesn't have bugs? Java itself doesn't have buffer overflows, for example, but if you link to native code, well, all bets are off, right? Got nothing to do with Java at that point. Meanwhile it's easy to write an application that has security problems; once in a while someone will demonstrate an application that, through misuse, can be used DoS the system (the hashtable bug, for example, which hit every language out there except Perl), but again, that's not really the runtime's fault, and certainly has nothing to do with memory allocation (that one was an weakness in the implementation of hashtables that, if used in a web facing application to store HTTP headers, turned out to vulnerable to a crafted attack which would result in excessive CPU load. Who knew? Ok, the Perl people, but hey). AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Operational Dynamics http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 02:40:36 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 22:40:36 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> <504E1A31.2020404@rogers.com> Message-ID: <504EA4A4.9010102@rogers.com> On 12-09-10 06:53 PM, John Moniz wrote: >> >> >> How to return to classic Gnome in Ubuntu 12.04 Precise >> >> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/netcooltips/entry/how_to_return_to_classic_gnome_in_ubuntu_12_04_precise12?lang=en >> > > > Thanks for the link. The question is very timely also, Mel just beat > me to it. > > I have installed 10.04 LTS for a few friends and family, none of whom > seem to be interested in Unity. Has anyone tried this "fix"? Is there > any loss in functionality to be concerned about? I did see something > about installing gnome shell from the gnome team repository (ppa: > gnome3-team/gnome3) instead of using the default Ubuntu repository > gnome package (too old apparently?). > I have been using it since installing 12.04. I made sure that I could use classic Gnome before I did the upgrade to 12.04. I have not been able to get icons for apps on the top bar, but that is not very important, and I have not tried to hard to figure it out. -- Stephen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 03:22:16 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:22:16 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: <504EA4A4.9010102-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> <504E1A31.2020404@rogers.com> <504EA4A4.9010102@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 09/10/2012 10:40 PM, Stephen wrote: > On 12-09-10 06:53 PM, John Moniz wrote: >>> >>> >>> How to return to classic Gnome in Ubuntu 12.04 Precise >>> >>> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/netcooltips/entry/how_to_return_to_classic_gnome_in_ubuntu_12_04_precise12?lang=en >>> >> >> >> Thanks for the link. The question is very timely also, Mel just beat >> me to it. >> >> I have installed 10.04 LTS for a few friends and family, none of whom >> seem to be interested in Unity. Has anyone tried this "fix"? Is there >> any loss in functionality to be concerned about? I did see something >> about installing gnome shell from the gnome team repository (ppa: >> gnome3-team/gnome3) instead of using the default Ubuntu repository >> gnome package (too old apparently?). >> > I have been using it since installing 12.04. I made sure that I could > use classic Gnome before I did the upgrade to 12.04. > > I have not been able to get icons for apps on the top bar, but that is > not very important, and I have not tried to hard to figure it out. Having app icons on the top bar is kind of important for my mother-in-law, it's the only way she remembers how to start a program. I'll have to see if I can figure it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 04:52:59 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:52:59 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> <504E1A31.2020404@rogers.com> <504EA4A4.9010102@rogers.com> Message-ID: <504EC3AB.1040708@sobac.com> I've been using the Mate Desktop on Ubuntu for the last few months. It claims to be "a non-intuitive and unattractive desktop for users, using traditional computing desktop metaphor." I believe it's a fork of Gnome2. I'm finally getting things done, without the computing environment getting in my way. http://mate-desktop.org/ Instructions for installing with a package manager are at http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download "Mate" is not "Cinnamon", although both seem to have been developed with the Mint distro in mind. I've used Cinnamon too, but it does not seem to be as well developed as Mate (eg. fewer panel applets, faulty panel applets). I also went through a brief spell of Gnome3 - but too many new things to remember while trying to do work. And, obviously, I've tried Unity, but I just can't get used to it. --Bob. Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting On 12-09-10 11:22 PM, John Moniz wrote: > On 09/10/2012 10:40 PM, Stephen wrote: >> On 12-09-10 06:53 PM, John Moniz wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> How to return to classic Gnome in Ubuntu 12.04 Precise >>>> >>>> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/netcooltips/entry/how_to_return_to_classic_gnome_in_ubuntu_12_04_precise12?lang=en >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for the link. The question is very timely also, Mel just beat >>> me to it. >>> >>> I have installed 10.04 LTS for a few friends and family, none of >>> whom seem to be interested in Unity. Has anyone tried this >>> "fix"? Is there any loss in functionality to be concerned about? >>> I did see something about installing gnome shell from the gnome >>> team repository (ppa: gnome3-team/gnome3) instead of using the >>> default Ubuntu repository gnome package (too old apparently?). >>> >> I have been using it since installing 12.04. I made sure that I >> could use classic Gnome before I did the upgrade to 12.04. >> >> I have not been able to get icons for apps on the top bar, but that >> is not very important, and I have not tried to hard to figure it >> out. > > Having app icons on the top bar is kind of important for my > mother-in-law, it's the only way she remembers how to start a > program. I'll have to see if I can figure it out. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 14:03:45 2012 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:03:45 -0400 Subject: UPS dying... In-Reply-To: <50494F2B.7000707-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> <50494F2B.7000707@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 09/06/2012 09:03 PM, Peter King wrote: >> >> My UPS seems to be dying. >> >> It's an APC Back-UPS XS 1000, which I've had for several >> years. Recently it has begun to trip into "Overload" mode >> for no apparent reason (no particular load was being put >> on it), at random but ever-more-frequently occurring times. >> >> The battery is probably no longer holding its charge, and >> hence the "overload" it reports. >> >> So it's time to get a new UPS. >> >> I have a computer with a 650w power supply, a monitor, and >> a few miscellaneous devices to run. Only the computer and >> monitor need go through the UPS backup power, but it would >> be convenient to have surge protection for the other devices. >> >> I don't need much time on the battery; a few minutes should >> be enough for an automatic controlled Linux shutdown. >> >> How "much" is enough -- is 1000w fine, or go for 1500w for >> the extra margin? I don't have a clue about these things. >> >> Advice, suggestions, recommendations? > > > The rated wattage of your PSU is not an indication of the current draw. > Unless you have some serious hardware in your machine, you are likely > drawing less than 200w on average (at least that's the load I see in most > cases). That would be under no load with only one monitor. (and Printer should not on the UPS). When buying a UPS average wattage is pretty well meaningless for anything more than determining runtime on battery. What you need to know is Peak wattage at startup and the Peak wattage under load. The easiest way is to use a UPS calculator which already has the wattage information for various components specifically Processors and Video Cards. Here's Eaton's Calculator. http://powerquality.eaton.com/UPS/selector/by_WorkStation.asp I definitely would recommend Eaton (Powerware) UPSes but they are probably too expensive for most consumers (me included). I can also speak to the CyberPower. I was a little iffy about buying it at first but the price was excellent. It's worked well since I got it save some issues with it's software. The 1500VA model is currently powering both my PC and my iMAC Pro without issue. So it would be more than enough for your system Peter. Mark Lane http://2100computerlane.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 14:49:10 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:49:10 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: <504EC3AB.1040708-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> <504E1A31.2020404@rogers.com> <504EA4A4.9010102@rogers.com> <504EC3AB.1040708@sobac.com> Message-ID: <20120911144910.GC22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:52:59AM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote: > I've been using the Mate Desktop on Ubuntu for the last few months. It > claims to be "a non-intuitive and unattractive desktop for users, using > traditional computing desktop metaphor." I believe it's a fork of > Gnome2. I'm finally getting things done, without the computing > environment getting in my way. They seem to claim "It provides an intuitive and attractive desktop to Linux users using traditional metaphors." That seems a bit different from what you said. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 14:50:08 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:50:08 -0400 Subject: Java JVM architecture In-Reply-To: <1347330958.18951.26.camel-h+bEsSVjjEvomGmVskzo88GHMNzfLsLvu/SBMH9hmaLwNE34jsGUJe658FiBabzs@public.gmane.org> References: <1347330958.18951.26.camel@turminder-xuss.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> Message-ID: <20120911145008.GD22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:35:58PM +1000, Andrew Cowie wrote: > Are you talking about ensuring that libraries in use on your system are > updated? That Java programs don't have bugs? That the standard Java > library doesn't have bugs? Java itself doesn't have buffer overflows, > for example, but if you link to native code, well, all bets are off, > right? Got nothing to do with Java at that point. Seems pretty obvious lately that the way to use java in a secure way is to not use java at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 14:53:40 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 10:53:40 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop In-Reply-To: References: <50490732.16972.3A1A51A9@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <20120911145340.GE22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 06:08:21PM -0400, Jason A. Spiro wrote: > I've experienced this slowness too. USB is highly inefficient, and many USB sticks are slow on top of that. You should see what windows xp is like from a USB stick. That's painful. > Since you're willing to use a hard drive, I recommend the Seagate > Momentus XT. AFAICT, it's the only hybrid hard drive on the market > today. (It's a single 2.5" device which contains magnetic platters > plus flash memory. The firmware copies data back and forth as needed > so that you don't need to worry about it.) I've used one. They work > fine. After seeing how the seagate laptop drive that came in my wife's lenovo was built inside, I will never consider a seagate laptop drive as someting that could be used. What a flimsy piece of crap. no wonder if mashed the heads under the head parking mechanism and then dragged them across the platter. And it seems to be a common problem from what I found with some searching. > If you feel you must install Linux on a USB stick, see Mark Lord's > aufs ram-to-disk-synchronization toolkit: > . I've never tried it, but it worked > fine when he demonstrated it at Linux Symposium. Those are interesting. They do seem to make some daily tasks a bit of a chore, but perhaps that just depends how you work with your laptop. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 15:08:43 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 11:08:43 -0400 Subject: Desktop Linux [forever forthcoming...] Message-ID: I'm not sure how many watched the recent back-and-forth between Torvalds and Icarza , Michael Meeks has some interesting commentary on the matter that takes a different enough take to avoid being a "he said, she said", and which points at how systems like BeOS, NeXT, OS/2, MeeGo Netbook failed. http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2012-09-10-desktop-linux.html -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 16:09:07 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 09:09:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Desktop Linux [forever forthcoming...] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1347379747.92161.YahooMailNeo@web113408.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It would be easy to stick with an API, if it was designed well in the first place.? Regardless, we just have too many "Linux". -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: Christopher Browne > To: TLUG Mailing List > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 11:08:43 AM > Subject: [TLUG]: Desktop Linux [forever forthcoming...] > > I'm not sure how many watched the recent back-and-forth between > Torvalds and Icarza > , > > > Michael Meeks has some interesting commentary on the matter that takes > a different enough take to avoid being a "he said, she said", and > which points at how systems like BeOS, NeXT, OS/2, MeeGo Netbook > failed. > > http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2012-09-10-desktop-linux.html > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 16:39:26 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:39:26 -0400 Subject: Desktop Linux [forever forthcoming...] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11 September 2012 11:08, Christopher Browne wrote: > I'm not sure how many watched the recent back-and-forth between > Torvalds and Icarza > , > > > Michael Meeks has some interesting commentary on the matter that takes > a different enough take to avoid being a "he said, she said", and > which points at how systems like BeOS, NeXT, OS/2, MeeGo Netbook > failed. Yea, had seem it a while back. A little dull because I think I have seen too many of those Linux desktop stories. I personally think everything is fine, everybody can use whatever desktop they need. Seriously, its a matter of what you have invested on and a lot of people have invested a lot on Windows skills and they are not going to change their desktop even if Linux desktop can cook their coffee. That and Dell/HP etc pre-installing Windows make it near impossible this will ever change Thing that I found odd is, Icarza seem to think Linux desktop failed because of luck of binary drivers. This guy above average developer and I can only dream of ever being that good a developer, but on this observation, he fails flat on his face. Seriously, how can he say drivers are the problem despite having been in the middle of this industry this long? Linus on the other hand come out as very broad mind and usually have great business analysis. Anyway, I opinion, I think a kernel level API would have been a bad idea. Most vendors wouldn't have cared about releasing Linux specific drivers or open source drivers. So, a pig part of the Kernel would have remained available binary only for longer. Heck, thats what the windows world currently look like and its not ideal. You install OS, then go around hunting for drivers. Anyway, don't matter, we have the current culture and everybody should look forward. Its not going to change anyway, as most kernel developers love the current situation William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 16:55:15 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:55:15 -0400 Subject: Desktop Linux [forever forthcoming...] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120911165515.GF22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 11:08:43AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > I'm not sure how many watched the recent back-and-forth between > Torvalds and Icarza > , > > > Michael Meeks has some interesting commentary on the matter that takes > a different enough take to avoid being a "he said, she said", and > which points at how systems like BeOS, NeXT, OS/2, MeeGo Netbook > failed. > > http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2012-09-10-desktop-linux.html Well Linus is right. The gnome developers certainly did not at all understand the attitude of the kernel developers. Changing the outside API all the time is NOT acceptable. Changing the internal plumbing on the other hand is. And device drivers happen to be internal things if they want to be efficient. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 16:56:54 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:56:54 -0400 Subject: Java JVM architecture In-Reply-To: <504F6258.8040305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1347330958.18951.26.camel@turminder-xuss.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> <20120911145008.GD22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <504F6258.8040305@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120911165654.GG22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:10:00PM -0400, David Collier-Brown wrote: > Much like the best firewall is a good pair of wire-cutters (:-)) True, although at least you have a chance of making a secure firewall that's actually useful. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 20:39:18 2012 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 20:39:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: (question) same MACs in wireless router References: <20120908155408.GA10073@node1.opengeometry.net> <504B9533.5090407@rogers.com> <504C8A30.9060503@rogers.com> Message-ID: James Knott writes: > WiFi effectively acts as a bridge. It makes no difference whether you > connect to any device on the local LAN via wire or wireless. So, if > there were indeed two MAC addresses, which one gets the IP address? > While you can have multiple IP addresses for one MAC, you cannot have > multiple MAC addresses for one IP. You can have as many MAC addresses as you like, for the same IP, as long as the router(s) can handle this (tuple routing heh). Just not on the same net. Not on the same media is the same as not on the same net. Bridged interfaces will simply mirror any packet in out of both. If you try to connect to a router with a wifi connection and with a cable, both at the same time, then you can end up with a very confused host. But who does that?! (answer: I do, when checking out routers... grrr) -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 20:45:13 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:45:13 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: <20120911144910.GC22046-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> <504E1A31.2020404@rogers.com> <504EA4A4.9010102@rogers.com> <504EC3AB.1040708@sobac.com> <20120911144910.GC22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <504FA2D9.2000006@sobac.com> On 12-09-11 10:49 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:52:59AM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote: >> I've been using the Mate Desktop on Ubuntu for the last few months. It >> claims to be "a non-intuitive and unattractive desktop for users, using >> traditional computing desktop metaphor." I believe it's a fork of >> Gnome2. I'm finally getting things done, without the computing >> environment getting in my way. > > They seem to claim "It provides an intuitive and attractive desktop to > Linux users using traditional metaphors." That seems a bit different > from what you said. :) > I copy'n'pasted from the description in the package (v 1.4.0+precise): > dpkg -s mate-desktop-environment Funny guys, those Mate packagers.... --Bob. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 20:55:02 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:55:02 -0400 Subject: (question) same MACs in wireless router In-Reply-To: References: <20120908155408.GA10073@node1.opengeometry.net> <504B9533.5090407@rogers.com> <504C8A30.9060503@rogers.com> Message-ID: <504FA526.8000109@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > James Knott writes: >> WiFi effectively acts as a bridge. It makes no difference whether you >> connect to any device on the local LAN via wire or wireless. So, if >> there were indeed two MAC addresses, which one gets the IP address? >> While you can have multiple IP addresses for one MAC, you cannot have >> multiple MAC addresses for one IP. > You can have as many MAC addresses as you like, for the same IP, as long as the > router(s) can handle this (tuple routing heh). Just not on the same net. Not on > the same media is the same as not on the same net. Bridged interfaces will > simply mirror any packet in out of both. If you try to connect to a router with > a wifi connection and with a cable, both at the same time, then you can end up > with a very confused host. But who does that?! (answer: I do, when checking out > routers... grrr) > > The situation you mentioned does not apply to the situation the OP was discussing and, as you mentioned, requires separate networks. This, of course, means the MAC is irrelevant to anything beyond the individual networks. If you are outside of those networks, you don't even know what any of the MACs on those networks are and you don't care. With my notebook computer, running OpenSUSE 12.1, if there are both wired and wireless connections to the same network, the wired is the default. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 20:58:41 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:58:41 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: <504FA2D9.2000006-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> <504E1A31.2020404@rogers.com> <504EA4A4.9010102@rogers.com> <504EC3AB.1040708@sobac.com> <20120911144910.GC22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <504FA2D9.2000006@sobac.com> Message-ID: <20120911205841.GH22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 04:45:13PM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote: > I copy'n'pasted from the description in the package (v 1.4.0+precise): > > > dpkg -s mate-desktop-environment > > > > Funny guys, those Mate packagers.... Are these packages in ubuntu? The same people that think unity is a good thing? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 21:04:07 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:04:07 -0400 Subject: UPS dying... In-Reply-To: References: <20120907010358.GB30734@amber> <50494F2B.7000707@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <504FA747.2000203@sobac.com> On 12-09-11 10:03 AM, Mark Lane wrote: > What you need to know is Peak wattage at startup and the Peak wattage > under load. The first time I specced out UPS requirements for a small server room I calculated startup current draw by hand[*] for the servers, switches, modems, &c., since I didn't want to overload the UPS coming up from a blackout. Turns out I over-specced the UPS by some 40%, since I was later told by an APC rep that the rated power of a UPS allows for brief overloads, precisely to account for startup loads. Of course, it would have been good to know this before buying the thing... --Bob. [*] Before the Internet was invented. Or at least, before the Internet was commonly available, but definitely before online UPS calculators were invented. Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting On 12-09-11 10:03 AM, Mark Lane wrote: > On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Digimer wrote: >> On 09/06/2012 09:03 PM, Peter King wrote: >>> >>> My UPS seems to be dying. >>> >>> It's an APC Back-UPS XS 1000, which I've had for several >>> years. Recently it has begun to trip into "Overload" mode >>> for no apparent reason (no particular load was being put >>> on it), at random but ever-more-frequently occurring times. >>> >>> The battery is probably no longer holding its charge, and >>> hence the "overload" it reports. >>> >>> So it's time to get a new UPS. >>> >>> I have a computer with a 650w power supply, a monitor, and >>> a few miscellaneous devices to run. Only the computer and >>> monitor need go through the UPS backup power, but it would >>> be convenient to have surge protection for the other devices. >>> >>> I don't need much time on the battery; a few minutes should >>> be enough for an automatic controlled Linux shutdown. >>> >>> How "much" is enough -- is 1000w fine, or go for 1500w for >>> the extra margin? I don't have a clue about these things. >>> >>> Advice, suggestions, recommendations? >> >> >> The rated wattage of your PSU is not an indication of the current draw. >> Unless you have some serious hardware in your machine, you are likely >> drawing less than 200w on average (at least that's the load I see in most >> cases). > > That would be under no load with only one monitor. (and Printer should > not on the UPS). When buying a UPS average wattage is pretty well > meaningless for anything more than determining runtime on battery. > What you need to know is Peak wattage at startup and the Peak wattage > under load. The easiest way is to use a UPS calculator which already > has the wattage information for various components specifically > Processors and Video Cards. > > Here's Eaton's Calculator. > > http://powerquality.eaton.com/UPS/selector/by_WorkStation.asp > > I definitely would recommend Eaton (Powerware) UPSes but they are > probably too expensive for most consumers (me included). > > I can also speak to the CyberPower. I was a little iffy about buying > it at first but the price was excellent. It's worked well since I got > it save some issues with it's software. The 1500VA model is currently > powering both my PC and my iMAC Pro without issue. So it would be > more than enough for your system Peter. > > > Mark Lane > http://2100computerlane.net > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 21:08:49 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:08:49 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: <20120911205841.GH22046-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> <504E1A31.2020404@rogers.com> <504EA4A4.9010102@rogers.com> <504EC3AB.1040708@sobac.com> <20120911144910.GC22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <504FA2D9.2000006@sobac.com> <20120911205841.GH22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <504FA861.80004@sobac.com> On 12-09-11 04:58 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 04:45:13PM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote: >> I copy'n'pasted from the description in the package (v 1.4.0+precise): >> >>> dpkg -s mate-desktop-environment >> >> >> >> Funny guys, those Mate packagers.... > > Are these packages in ubuntu? The same people that think unity is a > good thing? > > -- Len Sorensen -- No, the Mate packages come from the Mate Desktop repositories. From my sources.list file: > deb http://packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/ubuntu precise main > # deb-src http://packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/ubuntu precise main --Bob. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 11 21:45:46 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:45:46 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: <504FA861.80004-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> <504E1A31.2020404@rogers.com> <504EA4A4.9010102@rogers.com> <504EC3AB.1040708@sobac.com> <20120911144910.GC22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <504FA2D9.2000006@sobac.com> <20120911205841.GH22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <504FA861.80004@sobac.com> Message-ID: <20120911214546.GI22046@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 05:08:49PM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote: > No, the Mate packages come from the Mate Desktop repositories. From my > sources.list file: That is pretty funny then. One description on the webpage and a contradiction in the package description. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 12 08:13:19 2012 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 18:13:19 +1000 (EST) Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Sep 2012, Giles Orr wrote: > On 10 September 2012 11:38, William Park wrote: >> Anyone here using "Powerline" adapters? > > They've always fascinated me, but the impression I've had is that > performance doesn't exactly match the ads. We're currently back in Australia and using Powerline. We get 40Mb/s with 4 units connected. We currently have 3 and are getting about 60Mb/s. Oddly enough Powerline performance degrades the more adapters you connect even if they are not in use. Really this is fine for our needs since almost all traffic passes over our DSL anyway and so it constrained well below 60Mb/s. Using Powerline means I avoided the expense and trouble of dropping cat5e/cat6 in the walls. I might do it one day but have no plans to now that Powerline has been so successful for us. I played with Powerline in Canada but we got abyssmal performance with the Aluminum wiring in our old house. I don't know for certain that the Aluminum was the culprit but it seems plausible. > Another thing to keep in mind is that in a shared house or apartment > building, your network traffic could be sniffed. (Let me know if I'm Depends on how the building is wired I understand. Certain devices installed by the electricity provider can act as a barrier through which no Powerline signals can pass. This could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on where you want the signal to go. > wrong, but I don't think these systems have any encryption.) Yes you can encrypt the connections. Generally it works like this: * Press a button on one of the units.. * Now you have two minutes to press the button on each other unit.. * They then (iirc) accept a symmetric key from the first unit activated. It should be fairly clear that this method is suspectible to intrusion if an attacker had a unit that was listening to the signal and picked up the symmetric key. I suspect this is a largely theoretical attack however. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Director, Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) "Information is a gas" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 12 14:22:35 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 07:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Powerline adapters In-Reply-To: References: <1347291501.32116.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1347459755.73021.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Robert, What brand/model are you using now, and what did you use in Canada? -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Brockway > > Really this is fine for our needs since almost all traffic passes over our DSL > anyway and so it constrained well below 60Mb/s.? Using Powerline means I avoided > the expense and trouble of dropping cat5e/cat6 in the walls.? I might do it one > day but have no plans to now that Powerline has been so successful for us. > > I played with Powerline in Canada but we got abyssmal performance with the > Aluminum wiring in our old house.? I don't know for certain that the > Aluminum was the culprit but it seems plausible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 14 14:32:57 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 10:32:57 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Mandriva announces fully integrated Zarafa groupware solution on Mandriva Enterprise Server 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This sounds interesting... -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Mandriva announces fully integrated Zarafa groupware solution on Mandriva Enterprise Server 5 Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:30:05 +0200 From: noreply-4qZELD6FgxhWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Reply-To: noreply-4qZELD6FgxhWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org To: newsletter-en-4qZELD6FgxheH41UXmfQsti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org ************************************************************************************************************** If you wish to read this message on the web (HTML) please go to this page: http://blog.mandriva.com/en/2012/09/14/office-proof-collaboration-from-zarafa-powered-by-mandriva/ ************************************************************************************************************** MANDRIVA ANNOUNCES FULLY INTEGRATED ZARAFA GROUPWARE SOLUTION ON MANDRIVA ENTERPRISE SERVER 5 Paris, Curitiba, the 14th of September. Mandriva announces the immediate availability of its integrated offering in partnership with Zarafa. Zarafa is the Microsoft Exchange replacement for Linux servers, which allows users to share e-mails, calendars and contacts using Outlook or a web access. The integration includes a specific installation and configuration wizard as well as the possibility to manage Zarafa users in the Mandriva Directory Server (MDS) of MES5. Combining Mandriva Enterprise Server and Zarafa Professional Edition, Mandriva and Zarafa are building on the partnership they had entered in 2011 to deliver a fully integrated solution that offers a cost effective, ready to use and enterprise-class groupware platform to businesses and administrations. Mandriva offers Zarafa dedicated packages including support for Mandriva Enterprise Server 5 (MES 5), a server for mid-sized enterprise customers. Zarafa also ships the Zarafa web access, a web-based groupware interface with a look-and-feel like Microsoft? Outlook?, allowing users to become accustomed quickly. Moreover, with the Active Directory? plug-in, Zarafa can be easily integrated in an existing Windows network.There are multiple benefits to this combined offering: * Have a real one-stop shop for maintenance and support. * Fully integrated solution that reduces the setup and maintenance time for I.T infrastructure. * Enjoy the benefits and added features of Zarafa Professional Edition, completely unlocking communication and collaboration potential. * Save up to 50% on Zarafa and Mandriva solutions, thanks to fully integrated offering. ?One of the keypoints of this partnership is that these two products are not just integrated the usual way through services contract, but rather this integration is the result of two established vendors coming together to deliver the best value for their customers? says Gaurav Parakh, Vice President, Business Dev & Partnership Alliance Mandriva S.A. The integrated Mandriva Enterprise Server and Zarafa Professional Edition is available now. Contact us at sales-4qZELD6FgxhWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org or get more information here www.mandriva.com * About Mandriva Mandriva, formerly known as Mandrakesoft, is the publisher of Mandriva Linux, an easy-to-use and innovative operating system. It is one of the most popular Linux editions in the world. Dedicated to making open source technologies accessible to all users, the company offers a full range of products and services to individuals, enterprises and government organizations. Mandriva products are available online in 80 languages and in more than 140 countries through dedicated channels. Headquartered in Paris, France, the company is publicly traded on the Euronext Marche Libre.More information is at http://www.mandriva.com * About Zarafa Zarafa is the leading European provider of open source groupware and collaboration software. The company is headquartered in Delft, the Netherlands. Zarafa?s offices in Stuttgart, Hannover and Belo Horizonte (Brazil) provide local sales and support to more than 150 partners and thousands of customers worldwide. Our core product is the Zarafa Collaboration Platform (ZCP), the European open and compatible groupware platform that can be used as a drop-in Microsoft Exchange replacement for email, calendaring, collaboration and tasks. Zarafa is acclaimed for its unrivalled expertise in calendar and mobile compatibility. More information is at http://www.zarafa.com ***************************************************** -- If you wish to not receive our newsletter manage your subscription here : https://my.mandriva.com/newsletter/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfkennedy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 14 15:18:16 2012 From: rfkennedy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 11:18:16 -0400 Subject: HDTV antenna recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: <20120624171927.GA22024@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FE760B4.1010309@sobac.com> Message-ID: Hi, Found a cool site that should be helpful in assisting with aiming antennas. Actually gives you a readout of signal strenghts and directions all based on the address you enter. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29. Robert On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >> >> >> I'm not understanding something. Aren't the digital broadcasts today >> using the same frequencies as the analogue broadcasts of yesteryear? >> If so, why aren't the old style antennas (rabbit ears, UHF loops, >> Yagis) sufficient to capture today's digital signals? > > > Here's a link with pretty good information. Basically the airwaves are > getting pretty polluted. VHF bands are being licensed out to Mobile and > other communications as the Over The Air TV market is becoming more > minimal. > > Remember the old household roof top TV towers we used to see. The ones with > all the different length rods. You used to point them in one direction and > hope for the best, just fishing for one signal or other. As the technology, > servos etc got better and cheaper you could then remotely physically orient > the antenna for best reception. > > With UHF the shorter waves don't bleed as much interference and station > signals can be multiplexed and demuxed with more dexterity. The downside is > the shorter waves don't travel as far, or as well, as the article explains. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_high_frequency > > > >> >> - --Bob (I Am Not An Electrical Engineer) >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) >> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability >> >> iEYEARECAAYFAk/nYLMACgkQuRKJsNLM5eovXwCggTbJsFkGKRxDlWI5dC56jXYv >> uLsAn0qBU0W50C8+CwvzJXcnTUJN49z9 >> =pFev >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 16 02:25:25 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 22:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: New notebook Win7 fun Message-ID: - I must agree to 2 EULAs, one for Win7, one for Bing Bar. Otherwise I'm stuck forever in the consent screen (of course I could just boot Linux) - the first says if I don't agree, I must talk to manufacturer about their refund policy. Asus support manager say they do not have one and says it's up to the retailer. So they don't even follow the EULA, why should I? Once Windows gets over its "preparing desktop" stage, I get asked a buch of crapware questions (register some PDF reader, register Trendnet security). It also prompts me to make a Win7 backup (restore disks?). Turns out that that is 6 blank DVDs. 24 minutes into this process and nothing has been burned so far. This could easily take longer than installing Linux. And just think, in a month, I could get to do the same with Win8 (for ~$15). Why do I bother? Several bad reasons: maybe I'll need it; Asus only supportw Win7 so I might need it to get warranty support; I paid for it (unwillingly) so I ought to have it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 16 06:10:46 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 09:10:46 +0300 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 5:25 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > - I must agree to 2 EULAs, one for Win7, one for Bing Bar. Otherwise I'm > stuck forever in the consent screen (of course I could just boot Linux) > > - the first says if I don't agree, I must talk to manufacturer about their > refund policy. Asus support manager say they do not have one and says > it's up to the retailer. So they don't even follow the EULA, why should > I? > > Once Windows gets over its "preparing desktop" stage, I get asked a buch > of crapware questions (register some PDF reader, register Trendnet > security). > > It also prompts me to make a Win7 backup (restore disks?). Turns out that > that is 6 blank DVDs. 24 minutes into this process and nothing has been > burned so far. This could easily take longer than installing Linux. And > just think, in a month, I could get to do the same with Win8 (for ~$15). > > Why do I bother? Several bad reasons: maybe I'll need it; Asus only > supportw Win7 so I might need it to get warranty support; I paid for it > (unwillingly) so I ought to have it. > In Israel there was one guy that purchased a notebook from Dell and decided he does not agree with the Windows EULA, he tried to get a refund from the dealer who referred him to Dell, they of course said they don't have such a policy so he appealed to court. After a battle of over a year, he got the refund, I don't remember how much, anyway this was done only for the principle. I have never done it, simply installed Linux. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 16 23:42:49 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:42:49 -0400 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120916234249.GA11810@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 10:25:25PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > > I paid for it (unwillingly) so I ought to have it. Actually, you probably paid less for the machine with Windows, than you would've with a blank hard drive. The OEM volume price for Windows is rather low. The publishers of the "craplets" that come with the machine (anti-virus, CD-burner, other trial-ware) pay the OEMs to put their garbage on your machine. Apparently, the OEMs get more per machine than they pay for the Windows licence. In a previous life, back when I was still using Windows, I loved "PC Decrapifier" http://pcdecrapifier.com/ for getting rid of craplets. It's free for personal use. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 17 09:45:35 2012 From: alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:45:35 +0100 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: <20120916234249.GA11810-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120916234249.GA11810@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: I also find that, under Windows, Revo Uninstaller does a very good job of automating the removal of crapware. My experience with PCDecrapifier is that it launches all the uninstalls nigh simultaenously, thereby ensuring some conflicts occur. It's good for isolating the programs, but I tend to use Revo Uninstaller to perform the actual removal of software. I still use Windows for work (the entire office runs on it), but at home, I use Linux. Gabriel "I had fun once. Once. It was terrible." On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 12:42 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 10:25:25PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > > > > I paid for it (unwillingly) so I ought to have it. > > Actually, you probably paid less for the machine with Windows, than > you would've with a blank hard drive. The OEM volume price for Windows > is rather low. The publishers of the "craplets" that come with the > machine (anti-virus, CD-burner, other trial-ware) pay the OEMs to put > their garbage on your machine. Apparently, the OEMs get more per > machine than they pay for the Windows licence. > > In a previous life, back when I was still using Windows, I loved > "PC Decrapifier" http://pcdecrapifier.com/ for getting rid of craplets. > It's free for personal use. > > -- > Walter Dnes > I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 17 11:35:28 2012 From: faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Syed Faisal Akber) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:35:28 +0000 Subject: HDTV antenna recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: <20120624171927.GA22024@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FE760B4.1010309@sobac.com> Message-ID: <310182794-1347881735-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-529033274-@b15.c20.bise6.blackberry> VGhlIGxpbmsgdGhhdCBSb2JlcnQgbWVudGlvbmVkIGlzIGdyZWF0LiAgDQpGb3IgdGhlIGFudGVu bmFlIHRoZW1zZWx2ZXMsIHRyeSBSVEMgRWxlY3Ryb25pY3Mgb24gTWF0aGVzb24gYW5kIERpeGll LCBhIGZldyBkb29ycyBkb3duIGZyb20gU2F5YWwuIA0KDQpUaGV5IGhhdmUgYSBzZWxlY3Rpb24g b2YgYW50ZW5uYSBhbmQgY2FycnkgbW9zdCBhY2Nlc3NvcmllcyB0aGF0IHlvdSBtYXkgbmVlZCBm b3IgdGhlIHB1cnBvc2Ugb2YgbW91bnRpbmcgYW50ZW5uYWUuIA0KDQpGYWlzYWwNClNlbnQgZnJv bSBteSBCbGFja0JlcnJ5riBzbWFydHBob25lDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0t DQpGcm9tOiAiUm9iZXJ0IEYuIEtlbm5lZHkiIDxyZmtlbm5lZHlAZ21haWwuY29tPg0KU2VuZGVy OiBvd25lci10bHVnQHNzLm9yZw0KRGF0ZTogRnJpLCAxNCBTZXAgMjAxMiAxMToxODoxNiANClRv OiA8dGx1Z0Bzcy5vcmc+DQpSZXBseS1UbzogdGx1Z0Bzcy5vcmdTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW1RMVUdd OiBIRFRWIGFudGVubmEgcmVjb21tZW5kYXRpb24/DQoNCkhpLA0KDQpGb3VuZCBhIGNvb2wgc2l0 ZSB0aGF0IHNob3VsZCBiZSBoZWxwZnVsIGluIGFzc2lzdGluZyB3aXRoIGFpbWluZw0KYW50ZW5u YXMuIEFjdHVhbGx5IGdpdmVzIHlvdSBhIHJlYWRvdXQgb2Ygc2lnbmFsIHN0cmVuZ2h0cyBhbmQN CmRpcmVjdGlvbnMgYWxsIGJhc2VkIG9uIHRoZSBhZGRyZXNzIHlvdSBlbnRlci4NCmh0dHA6Ly93 d3cudHZmb29sLmNvbS8/b3B0aW9uPWNvbV93cmFwcGVyJkl0ZW1pZD0yOS4NCg0KUm9iZXJ0DQoN Ck9uIFN1biwgSnVuIDI0LCAyMDEyIGF0IDM6NTAgUE0sIFJ1c3NlbGwgUmVpdGVyIDxycmVpdGVy OTFAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4+IDxzbmlwIHRoZSBwcmV2aW91cz4NCj4+DQo+PiBJJ20g bm90IHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcgc29tZXRoaW5nLiBBcmVuJ3QgdGhlIGRpZ2l0YWwgYnJvYWRjYXN0 cyB0b2RheQ0KPj4gdXNpbmcgdGhlIHNhbWUgZnJlcXVlbmNpZXMgYXMgdGhlIGFuYWxvZ3VlIGJy b2FkY2FzdHMgb2YgeWVzdGVyeWVhcj8NCj4+IElmIHNvLCB3aHkgYXJlbid0IHRoZSBvbGQgc3R5 bGUgYW50ZW5uYXMgKHJhYmJpdCBlYXJzLCBVSEYgbG9vcHMsDQo+PiBZYWdpcykgc3VmZmljaWVu dCB0byBjYXB0dXJlIHRvZGF5J3MgZGlnaXRhbCBzaWduYWxzPw0KPg0KPg0KPiBIZXJlJ3MgYSBs aW5rIHdpdGggcHJldHR5IGdvb2QgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24uIEJhc2ljYWxseSB0aGUgYWlyd2F2ZXMg YXJlDQo+IGdldHRpbmcgcHJldHR5IHBvbGx1dGVkLiBWSEYgYmFuZHMgYXJlIGJlaW5nIGxpY2Vu c2VkIG91dCB0byBNb2JpbGUgYW5kDQo+IG90aGVyIGNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zIGFzIHRoZSBPdmVy IFRoZSBBaXIgVFYgbWFya2V0ICBpcyBiZWNvbWluZyBtb3JlDQo+IG1pbmltYWwuDQo+DQo+IFJl bWVtYmVyIHRoZSBvbGQgaG91c2Vob2xkIHJvb2YgdG9wIFRWIHRvd2VycyB3ZSB1c2VkIHRvIHNl ZS4gVGhlIG9uZXMgd2l0aA0KPiBhbGwgdGhlIGRpZmZlcmVudCBsZW5ndGggcm9kcy4gIFlvdSB1 c2VkIHRvIHBvaW50IHRoZW0gaW4gb25lIGRpcmVjdGlvbiBhbmQNCj4gaG9wZSBmb3IgdGhlIGJl c3QsIGp1c3QgZmlzaGluZyBmb3Igb25lIHNpZ25hbCBvciBvdGhlci4gQXMgdGhlIHRlY2hub2xv Z3ksDQo+IHNlcnZvcyBldGMgZ290IGJldHRlciBhbmQgY2hlYXBlciB5b3UgY291bGQgdGhlbiBy ZW1vdGVseSBwaHlzaWNhbGx5IG9yaWVudA0KPiB0aGUgYW50ZW5uYSBmb3IgYmVzdCByZWNlcHRp b24uDQo+DQo+IFdpdGggVUhGIHRoZSBzaG9ydGVyIHdhdmVzIGRvbid0IGJsZWVkIGFzIG11Y2gg aW50ZXJmZXJlbmNlIGFuZCBzdGF0aW9uDQo+IHNpZ25hbHMgY2FuIGJlIG11bHRpcGxleGVkIGFu ZCBkZW11eGVkIHdpdGggbW9yZSBkZXh0ZXJpdHkuIFRoZSBkb3duc2lkZSBpcw0KPiB0aGUgc2hv cnRlciB3YXZlcyBkb24ndCB0cmF2ZWwgYXMgZmFyLCBvciBhcyB3ZWxsLCBhcyB0aGUgYXJ0aWNs ZSBleHBsYWlucy4NCj4NCj4gaHR0cDovL2VuLndpa2lwZWRpYS5vcmcvd2lraS9VbHRyYV9oaWdo X2ZyZXF1ZW5jeQ0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPj4NCj4+IC0gLS1Cb2IgKEkgQW0gTm90IEFuIEVsZWN0cmlj YWwgRW5naW5lZXIpDQo+PiAtLS0tLUJFR0lOIFBHUCBTSUdOQVRVUkUtLS0tLQ0KPj4gVmVyc2lv bjogR251UEcgdjEuNC4xMSAoR05VL0xpbnV4KQ0KPj4gQ29tbWVudDogRW5zdXJlIGNvbmZpZGVu dGlhbGl0eSwgYXV0aGVudGljaXR5LCBub24tcmVwdWRpYWJpbGl0eQ0KPj4NCj4+IGlFWUVBUkVD QUFZRkFrL25ZTE1BQ2drUXVSS0pzTkxNNWVvdlh3Q2dnVGJKc0ZrR0tSeERsV0k1ZEM1NmpYWXYN Cj4+IHVMc0FuMHFCVTBXNTBDOCtDd3Z6SlhjblRVSk40OXo5DQo+PiA9cEZldg0KPj4gLS0tLS1F TkQgUEdQIFNJR05BVFVSRS0tLS0tDQo+PiAtLQ0KPj4gVGhlIFRvcm9udG8gTGludXggVXNlcnMg R3JvdXAuICAgICAgTWVldGluZ3M6IGh0dHA6Ly9ndGFsdWcub3JnLw0KPj4gVExVRyByZXF1ZXN0 czogTGludXggdG9waWNzLCBObyBIVE1MLCB3cmFwIHRleHQgYmVsb3cgODAgY29sdW1ucw0KPj4g SG93IHRvIFVOU1VCU0NSSUJFOiBodHRwOi8vZ3RhbHVnLm9yZy93aWtpL01haWxpbmdfbGlzdHMN Cj4NCj4NCi0tDQpUaGUgVG9yb250byBMaW51eCBVc2VycyBHcm91cC4gICAgICBNZWV0aW5nczog aHR0cDovL2d0YWx1Zy5vcmcvDQpUTFVHIHJlcXVlc3RzOiBMaW51eCB0b3BpY3MsIE5vIEhUTUws IHdyYXAgdGV4dCBiZWxvdyA4MCBjb2x1bW5zDQpIb3cgdG8gVU5TVUJTQ1JJQkU6IGh0dHA6Ly9n dGFsdWcub3JnL3dpa2kvTWFpbGluZ19saXN0cw0K -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 17 14:37:23 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:37:23 -0400 Subject: Old Sims Available Message-ID: <568f14e2d5b8bf44e7d735f4766e67cd.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> I was recently given an ISA plug-in board, which has 4 RAM SIMs on board. I'd guess that the board itself was a video generator. It has a Xilinx XC3090-70 FPGA and Motorola 68020 processor on board. So this is pretty ancient technology. Each of the 4 SIMs has 8 chips. Each chip is a Siemens HY85110008BJ-70, with 20 pins arranged in 4 groups of 5 pins. Each SIM has 30 pins. Before I ditch the board, can anyone use the SIMs? Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 17 16:19:15 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:19:15 -0400 Subject: Old Sims Available In-Reply-To: <568f14e2d5b8bf44e7d735f4766e67cd.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <568f14e2d5b8bf44e7d735f4766e67cd.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20120917161915.GA23027@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:37:23AM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I was recently given an ISA plug-in board, which has 4 RAM SIMs on board. > I'd guess that the board itself was a video generator. It has a Xilinx > XC3090-70 FPGA and Motorola 68020 processor on board. So this is pretty > ancient technology. > > Each of the 4 SIMs has 8 chips. Each chip is a Siemens HY85110008BJ-70, > with 20 pins arranged in 4 groups of 5 pins. Each SIM has 30 pins. Before > I ditch the board, can anyone use the SIMs? Hmm, 30 pin simms with 8 chips. I wonder if they are 4MB or 1MB simms. I can't find the specs of HY85110008BJ-70. I also can't remember what the common labeling rules of those old chips were. If they were 4MB sticks I might have a use for them. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 17 18:17:21 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:17:21 -0400 Subject: Old Sims Available In-Reply-To: <20120917161915.GA23027-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <568f14e2d5b8bf44e7d735f4766e67cd.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20120917161915.GA23027@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <50576931.8080306@ve3syb.ca> On 12-09-17 12:19 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:37:23AM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> I was recently given an ISA plug-in board, which has 4 RAM SIMs on board. >> I'd guess that the board itself was a video generator. It has a Xilinx >> XC3090-70 FPGA and Motorola 68020 processor on board. Old stuff indeed. Can that 68020 be removed or is it soldered to it to the board? > Hmm, 30 pin simms with 8 chips. I wonder if they are 4MB or 1MB simms. > I can't find the specs of HY85110008BJ-70. I couldn't find a datasheet for the memory chips but based on the age of them that I've seen mentioned (around '91 or '92), it's not too surprising. 8 chips means 8-bit with no parity, and based on the part number and age, I'd hazard a guess that you are looking at 1MB modules with a 70nS access (or is it cycle) time. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 17 18:29:51 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:29:51 -0400 Subject: Old Sims Available In-Reply-To: <50576931.8080306-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <568f14e2d5b8bf44e7d735f4766e67cd.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20120917161915.GA23027@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50576931.8080306@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20120917182951.GB23027@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 02:17:21PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Old stuff indeed. Can that 68020 be removed or is it soldered to it > to the board? > > I couldn't find a datasheet for the memory chips but based on the > age of them that I've seen mentioned (around '91 or '92), it's not > too surprising. 8 chips means 8-bit with no parity, and based on the > part number and age, I'd hazard a guess that you are looking at 1MB > modules with a 70nS access (or is it cycle) time. The 11000 very well might mean 1Mbit or 1000kbit or something like that, and yes it is certainly 1 bit per chip giving no parity. And 70ns is certainly correct for the era. So 1MB is unfortunately probably most likely. Not much use to anyone then. I will have to raid the pair of 4MB 30 pin sims from my GUS PnP for use in my GVP HD8+ for the amiga. I could also believe a 68020 based design having 4MB of ram. 16MB would have been a lot, although not impossible. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 17 19:16:35 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:16:35 -0400 Subject: Old Sims Available In-Reply-To: <50576931.8080306-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <568f14e2d5b8bf44e7d735f4766e67cd.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20120917161915.GA23027@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50576931.8080306@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: > > Old stuff indeed. Can that 68020 be removed or is it soldered to it to the > board? > > Kevin. The 68020 and the Xilinx chip both appear to be in sockets. Someone has also expressed an interest in the complete board..but would like to see a photograph of the board. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 18 07:18:23 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 03:18:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Old Sims Available In-Reply-To: <20120917182951.GB23027-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <568f14e2d5b8bf44e7d735f4766e67cd.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20120917161915.GA23027@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50576931.8080306@ve3syb.ca> <20120917182951.GB23027@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | I will have to raid the pair of | 4MB 30 pin sims from my GUS PnP for use in my GVP HD8+ for the amiga. Gravis UltraSound? We have the original; I think we upgraded the RAM (chips, not SIMMs). But it was a while ago. The thing had great promise and lots of fans but not much actual use. | I could also believe a 68020 based design having 4MB of ram. 16MB would | have been a lot, although not impossible. My Sun 3/60's each have a 68020 CPU and 24 slots for 1M 30-pin SIMMs. Not all populated. 9-bit SIMMs (for parity). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 18 14:28:58 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:28:58 -0400 Subject: Old Sims Available In-Reply-To: References: <568f14e2d5b8bf44e7d735f4766e67cd.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20120917161915.GA23027@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50576931.8080306@ve3syb.ca> <20120917182951.GB23027@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120918142858.GD23027@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 03:18:23AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Gravis UltraSound? We have the original; I think we upgraded the RAM > (chips, not SIMMs). But it was a while ago. The thing had great > promise and lots of fans but not much actual use. I had the original upgraded to 1MB with chips, and I had the PnP Pro with 8.5MB on it (8MB in two 4MB simms plus 512KB onboard). > My Sun 3/60's each have a 68020 CPU and 24 slots for 1M 30-pin SIMMs. Not > all populated. 9-bit SIMMs (for parity). Better than the 3/50s that used individual socketed chips for ram. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 18 14:35:49 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:35:49 -0400 Subject: Old Sims Available In-Reply-To: References: <568f14e2d5b8bf44e7d735f4766e67cd.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20120917161915.GA23027@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50576931.8080306@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <505886C5.7020603@ve3syb.ca> On 12-09-17 03:16 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > The 68020 and the Xilinx chip both appear to be in sockets. Someone has > also expressed an interest in the complete board.. If someone can use the whole board that's better than salvaging some pieces of it and probably tossing whatever remains. I've always liked the Motorola 680x0 CPU. I might have been interested in the FPGA but I've recently picked up a small board with a 100k gate Spartan 3 and am about to order a different board that has a 500k gate Spartan 3. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 18 14:49:59 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:49:59 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <1347979799.8030.3.camel@tecumseth3> On Mon, 2012-09-10 at 12:40 -0400, Mel Wilson wrote: > Is there a way to upgrade to 12.04 and keep my traditional desktop? Or > should I just revert to Slackware times and do my own package installs? Thanks to the group for the advice. In the meantime I haven't got over cold feet, and haven't upgraded. How about xubuntu? I have gone "Slackware-time" and built an up-to-date version of git that works with present-day github. All is going well. Kudos to git developers for making their default build a local build so I can roll my own local version for testing without necessarily messing with the installed system. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 18 17:21:21 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 13:21:21 -0400 Subject: Session saving/restoring on Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5058AD91.9030503@ve3syb.ca> On 12-09-08 10:41 PM, Andrej Marjan wrote: > You're right, it was intentionally disabled: > http://askubuntu.com/questions/129885/how-could-unity2d-save-sessions > > Some of the links from that page suggest session saving is generally broken > in Gnome 3 as well. Session saving stopped working sometime after 9.10 but I don't know when. I went from 9.10 to 11.04 one day via a series of upgrades. I stopped at 11.04 to avoid winding up with Unity. I discovered I could no longer save sessions. If it was removed due to a bug (as one page suggests), the usual course of action is to fix the bug rather than disable a feature. I worked around the problem by adding additional start up commands to a shell script which is started as part of the Startup Applications. I just have to move the Pidgin window after the desktop finishes loading as that program doesn't honour the --geometry setting that would say where to position the window on startup. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 18 20:21:42 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 16:21:42 -0400 Subject: Question about Ubuntu 12 desktop In-Reply-To: <504EC3AB.1040708-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1347295249.3052.14.camel@tecumseth3> <504E1A31.2020404@rogers.com> <504EA4A4.9010102@rogers.com> <504EC3AB.1040708@sobac.com> Message-ID: <5058D7D6.4000703@ve3syb.ca> On 12-09-11 12:52 AM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > I've been using the Mate Desktop on Ubuntu for the last few months. It > claims to be "a non-intuitive and unattractive desktop for users, using > traditional computing desktop metaphor." I believe it's a fork of > Gnome2. That is my understanding as well that they forked Gnome 2. I've been considering switching to Mint with the Mate Desktop. I don't like Unity (it would slow me down), and I'm not sure Gnome 3 would be good for me. I still prefer having easy access to the programs I use regularly via the 14 icons in the top panel of my Gnome 2 desktop. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 13:13:07 2012 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:13:07 -0400 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> On 15/09/12 22:25 , D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > - I must agree to 2 EULAs, one for Win7, one for Bing Bar. Otherwise I'm > stuck forever in the consent screen (of course I could just boot Linux) > > - the first says if I don't agree, I must talk to manufacturer about their > refund policy. Asus support manager say they do not have one and says > it's up to the retailer. So they don't even follow the EULA, why should > I? > > Once Windows gets over its "preparing desktop" stage, I get asked a buch > of crapware questions (register some PDF reader, register Trendnet > security). > > It also prompts me to make a Win7 backup (restore disks?). Turns out that > that is 6 blank DVDs. 24 minutes into this process and nothing has been > burned so far. This could easily take longer than installing Linux. And > just think, in a month, I could get to do the same with Win8 (for ~$15). A friend of mine bought a Sony Laptop that recommends creating recovery media. I hope it doesn't take 6 DVDs. I'm considering looking into the WAIK (Windows Automated Install Kit) to see if I can create a "Windows Install Partition" on an external drive. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 13:38:24 2012 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:38:24 -0400 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: <5059C4E3.4060101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5059CAD0.4030506@gmail.com> On 19/09/12 9:13 , Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > A friend of mine bought a Sony Laptop that recommends creating recovery > media. I hope it doesn't take 6 DVDs. I'm considering looking into the > WAIK (Windows Automated Install Kit) to see if I can create a "Windows > Install Partition" on an external drive. > > Ivan. Better suggestion. Under Windows Backup you can create a system image. One can also create a system repair disk on DVD. http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/4241/how-to-create-a-system-image-in-windows-7/ Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 13:59:38 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:59:38 -0400 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: <5059C4E3.4060101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5059CFCA.1030704@rogers.com> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >> It also prompts me to make a Win7 backup (restore disks?). Turns out >> that >> that is 6 blank DVDs. 24 minutes into this process and nothing has been >> burned so far. This could easily take longer than installing Linux. >> And >> just think, in a month, I could get to do the same with Win8 (for ~$15). > > A friend of mine bought a Sony Laptop that recommends creating > recovery media. I hope it doesn't take 6 DVDs. I'm considering looking > into the WAIK (Windows Automated Install Kit) to see if I can create a > "Windows Install Partition" on an external drive. My ThinkPad E520 required 4 DVDs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 15:23:00 2012 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:23:00 -0400 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: <5059CFCA.1030704-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> <5059CFCA.1030704@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5059E354.7010402@gmail.com> On 19/09/12 9:59 , James Knott wrote: > Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >>> It also prompts me to make a Win7 backup (restore disks?). Turns out >>> that >>> that is 6 blank DVDs. 24 minutes into this process and nothing has been >>> burned so far. This could easily take longer than installing Linux. And >>> just think, in a month, I could get to do the same with Win8 (for ~$15). >> >> A friend of mine bought a Sony Laptop that recommends creating >> recovery media. I hope it doesn't take 6 DVDs. I'm considering looking >> into the WAIK (Windows Automated Install Kit) to see if I can create a >> "Windows Install Partition" on an external drive. > > My ThinkPad E520 required 4 DVDs. All I can say is WTF is wrong with Microsoft????? Ok, ok I can see all you Unix beards looking down on me and thinking "Duh, why are you surprised?" Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 15:28:35 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:28:35 -0400 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: <5059E354.7010402-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> <5059CFCA.1030704@rogers.com> <5059E354.7010402@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 19 September 2012 11:23, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > On 19/09/12 9:59 , James Knott wrote: >> >> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >>>> >>>> It also prompts me to make a Win7 backup (restore disks?). Turns out >>>> that >>>> that is 6 blank DVDs. 24 minutes into this process and nothing has been >>>> burned so far. This could easily take longer than installing Linux. And >>>> just think, in a month, I could get to do the same with Win8 (for ~$15). >>> >>> >>> A friend of mine bought a Sony Laptop that recommends creating >>> recovery media. I hope it doesn't take 6 DVDs. I'm considering looking >>> into the WAIK (Windows Automated Install Kit) to see if I can create a >>> "Windows Install Partition" on an external drive. >> >> >> My ThinkPad E520 required 4 DVDs. > > > All I can say is WTF is wrong with Microsoft????? Ok, ok I can see all you > Unix beards looking down on me and thinking "Duh, why are you surprised?" I only have a goatee, but ... "Duh." :-) My Toshiba Satellite (purchased about a month ago) took five or six DVDs. I have to admit it seemed excessive even to me. Maybe it's because I only have a goatee. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 15:31:27 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:31:27 +0300 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: References: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> <5059CFCA.1030704@rogers.com> <5059E354.7010402@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 6:28 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > On 19 September 2012 11:23, Ivan Avery Frey > wrote: > > On 19/09/12 9:59 , James Knott wrote: > >> > >> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > >>>> > >>>> It also prompts me to make a Win7 backup (restore disks?). Turns out > >>>> that > >>>> that is 6 blank DVDs. 24 minutes into this process and nothing has > been > >>>> burned so far. This could easily take longer than installing Linux. > And > >>>> just think, in a month, I could get to do the same with Win8 (for > ~$15). > >>> > >>> > >>> A friend of mine bought a Sony Laptop that recommends creating > >>> recovery media. I hope it doesn't take 6 DVDs. I'm considering looking > >>> into the WAIK (Windows Automated Install Kit) to see if I can create a > >>> "Windows Install Partition" on an external drive. > >> > >> > >> My ThinkPad E520 required 4 DVDs. > > > > > > All I can say is WTF is wrong with Microsoft????? Ok, ok I can see all > you > > Unix beards looking down on me and thinking "Duh, why are you surprised?" > > I only have a goatee, but ... "Duh." :-) > > My Toshiba Satellite (purchased about a month ago) took five or six > DVDs. I have to admit it seemed excessive even to me. Maybe it's > because I only have a goatee. > Well, on this I can only say: "Why bother with Windows in the first place?" Also, why write it in a Linux mailing list? Should we open a Microsoft rant mailing list :-) -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 15:32:29 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:32:29 -0400 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: References: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> <5059CFCA.1030704@rogers.com> <5059E354.7010402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5059E58D.40907@rogers.com> Giles Orr wrote: > My Toshiba Satellite (purchased about a month ago) took five or six > DVDs. I have to admit it seemed excessive even to me. Maybe it's > because I only have a goatee. > Actually, they could do it in only one DVD. The others are required to hold all the crapware. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 16:32:57 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: References: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> <5059CFCA.1030704@rogers.com> <5059E354.7010402@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Ori Idan | Well, on this I can only say: "Why bother with Windows in the first place?" | Also, why write it in a Linux mailing list? | Should we open a Microsoft rant mailing list :-) Escellent point. Since I started this thread, I will offer an apologia: This is a Linux users' list, not a Linux list. I'm certainly a Linux user. When I buy a computer (to run Linux!), very often it comes with Windows. My message even covered trying to return the Win7 portion. There are reasons to live with MS Windows on our computers. For example, manufacturers require MS Windows to provide warranty service, even hardware warranty service. BIOS updates often requre MS Windows. Of course "good vendors" may be different. But the price premium and lack of choice always seemed to me to be too much. I bought a new Asus x53e notebook with an i3 CPU for $300 + tax. Try to match that with a Linux-based offering. PS: although the software to create Win7 restore disks asked me to prepare (prepare??) 6 blank DVDs, it only used 4 (and took 65 minutes). PPS: before creating these disks, it asked me to irrevocably commit to a language. This speaks to Slackrat's experience with a Portugese notebook. Philosophical point: Microsoft's anti-piracy efforts really hurt their paying users. Ought to be a bigger advantage for FOSS. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 16:39:40 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:39:40 +0300 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: References: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> <5059CFCA.1030704@rogers.com> <5059E354.7010402@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 7:32 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Ori Idan > > | Well, on this I can only say: "Why bother with Windows in the first > place?" > | Also, why write it in a Linux mailing list? > | Should we open a Microsoft rant mailing list :-) > > Escellent point. Since I started this thread, I will offer an > apologia: > > This is a Linux users' list, not a Linux list. I'm certainly a Linux > user. When I buy a computer (to run Linux!), very often it comes with > Windows. My message even covered trying to return the Win7 portion. > > There are reasons to live with MS Windows on our computers. For > example, manufacturers require MS Windows to provide warranty service, > even hardware warranty service. BIOS updates often requre MS Windows. > > Of course "good vendors" may be different. But the price premium and > lack of choice always seemed to me to be too much. I bought a new > Asus x53e notebook with an i3 CPU for $300 + tax. Try to match that > with a Linux-based offering. > > PS: although the software to create Win7 restore disks asked me to > prepare (prepare??) 6 blank DVDs, it only used 4 (and took 65 > minutes). > > PPS: before creating these disks, it asked me to irrevocably commit to > a language. This speaks to Slackrat's experience with a Portugese > notebook. > > Philosophical point: Microsoft's anti-piracy efforts really hurt their > paying users. Ought to be a bigger advantage for FOSS. > If you keep Windows just for the sake of getting service (I have never heard of such a requirement) and/or upgrade BIOS why create restore disks? As for your point on anti-piracy efforts that hurt their paying users, you are right, most anti-piracy efforts, especially DRM hurt the legal paying users. I understand that now more and more companies are moving away from DRM. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 17:27:34 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:27:34 -0400 Subject: Supremetronic Redux In-Reply-To: <50449D65.1020808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <50449D65.1020808@rogers.com> Message-ID: <505A0086.9060507@ve3syb.ca> On 12-09-03 08:07 AM, James Knott wrote: > Factory Direct is not what it used to be. They used to be a place to get > decent deals on computer and other tech gear. Not anymore. The Factory Direct store that was a reasonably short walk away from me closed. I got a few DB-9 and DB-25 gender changers there and two sets of Logitech laptop speakers for around $30 to $35 that were listed at around $100 at Best Buy. I didn't go there very often but they did occasionally have some good prices on something I needed. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 17:30:54 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: References: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> <5059CFCA.1030704@rogers.com> <5059E354.7010402@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Ori Idan | If you keep Windows just for the sake of getting service (I have never | heard of such a requirement) and/or upgrade BIOS why create restore disks? Who can predict what will have broken when you need service. Anecdotally, one of the first steps service folks suggest is reinstalling windows. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 18:06:16 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:06:16 -0400 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: References: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> <5059CFCA.1030704@rogers.com> <5059E354.7010402@gmail.com> Message-ID: > | If you keep Windows just for the sake of getting service (I have never > | heard of such a requirement) and/or upgrade BIOS why create restore disks? You may not have heard anyone place such a requirements, but you can't tell if someone will not use that as an excuse to avoid supporting you when they run out of idea. > > Who can predict what will have broken when you need service. > > Anecdotally, one of the first steps service folks suggest is > reinstalling windows. > -- I did get such a suggestions actually on a netbook I bought from Amazon. The funny thing it was completely dead. So I politely asked her how should I go about that since as I indicated on the ticket, it don't even power up? She backed up and arranged for me to send it out. In short, don't think its OT, its something all of us would need once in a while. I am actually curious if you can try and install from those DVD without installing the crapware. That would be a good knowledge to take from this thread. William > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 18:12:54 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:12:54 -0400 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: References: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> <5059CFCA.1030704@rogers.com> <5059E354.7010402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <505A0B26.1080101@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > I did get such a suggestions actually on a netbook I bought from > Amazon. The funny thing it was completely dead. So I politely asked > her how should I go about that since as I indicated on the ticket, it > don't even power up? Customer: My computer won't power up. Support: Please click on the Start button and ... ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 19 23:06:20 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:06:20 -0400 Subject: New notebook Win7 fun In-Reply-To: References: <5059C4E3.4060101@gmail.com> <5059CFCA.1030704@rogers.com> <5059E354.7010402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <505A4FEC.60201@sobac.com> On 12-09-19 02:06 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > I am actually curious if you can try and install from those DVD > without installing the crapware. That would be a good knowledge to take > from this thread. I installed from recovery media a number of times on a Toshiba laptop, ca. 2008. Unfortunately, crapware was included (Norton AV, possibly some online services). I was playing with various Linuces and had as many as 15 partitions at one time. I re-installed from the recovery disks I burned, and the restore utility was polite enough to install correctly on a re-sized partition. I ended up wiping the Windows partition altogether, and running only Linux until this spring, when I needed Windows again. Unfortunately, by this time the recovery disks had been exposed to digital cooties, and would no longer work. Some kind of unrecoverable disk error. Lesson learned: Burnable DVDs are nowhere near archival quality. Pleasantly enough, a new HP ProBook actually came with HP's installation media. Commercial OEM Windows7 disks, no need to burn my own. --Bob. Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 20 18:39:53 2012 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:39:53 +0400 Subject: how to have /dev/audio on ubuntu? Message-ID: <505B62F9.7030106@gmail.com> I am so much confused by reading web, and I swear I never understood how sound works (except of the times of DOS). My program reports: [siggen] No such file or directory : /dev/audio "siggen" is the name of the program I want to use, but the error message, I guess, is not related to the program itself. So, how can I make siggen not reporting that silly error message but just working right away? My Ubuntu version is one of the latest ones. zb. http://nanolab.gu-unpk.ru/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 20 19:30:56 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 15:30:56 -0400 Subject: how to have /dev/audio on ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <505B62F9.7030106-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <505B62F9.7030106@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1348169456.3643.9.camel@tecumseth3> On Thu, 2012-09-20 at 22:39 +0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > I am so much confused by reading web, and I swear I never understood how > sound works (except of the times of DOS). > > My program reports: > > [siggen] No such file or directory : /dev/audio > > "siggen" is the name of the program I want to use, but the error > message, I guess, is not related to the program itself. > > So, how can I make siggen not reporting that silly error message but > just working right away? > > My Ubuntu version is one of the latest ones. I'm not fully up on this, but on Ubuntu 10.04 here: mwilson at tecumseth3:~$ grep audio /var/log/* grep: /var/log/btmp: Permission denied grep: /var/log/btmp.1.gz: Permission denied grep: /var/log/gdm: Permission denied /var/log/messages:Sep 16 11:29:21 tecumseth3 pulseaudio[1877]: ratelimit.c: 904 events suppressed /var/log/udev:KERNEL[1348150067.223573] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/sound/card0/audio (sound) /var/log/udev:DEVPATH=/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/sound/card0/audio /var/log/udev:DEVNAME=audio /var/log/udev:UDEV [1348150067.257181] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/sound/card0/audio (sound) /var/log/udev:DEVPATH=/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/sound/card0/audio /var/log/udev:DEVNAME=/dev/audio /var/log/user.log:Sep 16 11:29:21 tecumseth3 pulseaudio[1877]: ratelimit.c: 904 events suppressed so it looks like udev is finding an on-motherboard sound device and setting it up as /dev/audio with appropriate drivers. Seems to be referring to /lib/udev/rules.d/78-sound-card.rules to do this. Good Hunting, Mel. > > zb. > http://nanolab.gu-unpk.ru/ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 20 20:59:00 2012 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 16:59:00 -0400 Subject: how to have /dev/audio on ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <505B62F9.7030106-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <505B62F9.7030106@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ubuntu did not do a very good job of integrating pulseaudio. It's got a lot of features but demands complete control over the sound hardware and it looks like the Ubuntu folks rolled it out too quickly. If your hardware is older it might be better to go back to ALSA/OSS. I haven't seen many problems with pulseaudio in newer equipment with newer installs. I think ALSA still present in Ubuntu On the command line $speaker-test (plays white noise) $aplay - l (lists playback devices) $arecord -l (lists record devices) $alsamixer (make sure PCM volume is not muted.) or $pavucontrol (under pulse for the same reason.) This site may be helpful. http://www.hecticgeek.com/2012/01/how-to-remove-pulseaudio-use-alsa-ubuntu-linux/ Hope this helps Russell On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > I am so much confused by reading web, and I swear I never understood how > sound works (except of the times of DOS). > > My program reports: > > [siggen] No such file or directory : /dev/audio > > "siggen" is the name of the program I want to use, but the error message, I > guess, is not related to the program itself. > > So, how can I make siggen not reporting that silly error message but just > working right away? > > My Ubuntu version is one of the latest ones. > > zb. > http://nanolab.gu-unpk.ru/ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 21 15:20:13 2012 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 19:20:13 +0400 Subject: how to have /dev/audio on ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <505B62F9.7030106@gmail.com> Message-ID: <505C85AD.9010008@gmail.com> I remain confused. But I want to thank for responses, Russell and Mel. It seems that if I do not want to risk damaging the existing sound system I should not play too deep with what is there already. Fortunately, I have another box with Centos, and /dev/audio is still there. zb. On 09/21/2012 12:59 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: > Ubuntu did not do a very good job of integrating pulseaudio. It's got > a lot of features but demands complete control over the sound hardware > and it looks like the Ubuntu folks rolled it out too quickly. > > If your hardware is older it might be better to go back to ALSA/OSS. I > haven't seen many problems with pulseaudio in newer equipment with > newer installs. > > I think ALSA still present in Ubuntu > > On the command line > $speaker-test (plays white noise) > $aplay - l (lists playback devices) > $arecord -l (lists record devices) > > $alsamixer (make sure PCM volume is not muted.) > > or $pavucontrol (under pulse for the same reason.) > > This site may be helpful. > http://www.hecticgeek.com/2012/01/how-to-remove-pulseaudio-use-alsa-ubuntu-linux/ > > Hope this helps > Russell > > > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> I am so much confused by reading web, and I swear I never understood how >> sound works (except of the times of DOS). >> >> My program reports: >> >> [siggen] No such file or directory : /dev/audio >> >> "siggen" is the name of the program I want to use, but the error message, I >> guess, is not related to the program itself. >> >> So, how can I make siggen not reporting that silly error message but just >> working right away? >> >> My Ubuntu version is one of the latest ones. >> >> zb. >> http://nanolab.gu-unpk.ru/ >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 21 22:44:03 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:44:03 -0400 Subject: X goings on Message-ID: Just saw this; it isn't often that I see anything happening surrounding X, so this caught my eye. X.org met September 19th thru 21st 2012 in N?rnberg (Nuremberg), Germany. Here are some notes about the proceedings. Interesting stuff, and it is encouraging that they have "ongoing" business going on; things rectified, things being changed, and things being planned, at various technical, organizational, and release management levels. All healthy signs of a group doing stuff that is of importance and that are being handled with at least some openness. http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2012/Proceedings http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2012 It is evident that the Wayland activities are not merely an "on the side" or "samizdat" thing. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 21 22:52:55 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:52:55 -0400 Subject: Tent distributed social networking Message-ID: Seen on teh InterWebz... Yet another would-be alternative to FakeBook and such... http://tent.io/ Unlike some attempts at such, they have a focus on What Is The Protocol, and while they offer a sample implementation, that's not intended to be the only one. Which seems a way better idea to me than, um, wasn't it Diaspora? What fills me with greater "warm fuzzies" about Tent is that it seems to be aware of some of the things that took place vastly long before Facebook... "Tent began after a conversation between Jonathan Rudenberg, Daniel Siders, Jesse Stuart, and Lucas Wojciechowski. It was inspired by Hypertext, Xanadu, SMTP, the World Wide Web, and distributed peer-to-peer services." If they were thinking about Dream Machines/Computer Lib, that seems rather more inspiring than "Let'z be 3l33t and clone Facebook!" -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 22 22:26:58 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 18:26:58 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing Message-ID: I recently inherited a couple of 2U servers, and was wondering if anyone has reasonable sources for small racks. kijiji pointed out an 18 foot one (seems like you'd need a fork lift to put servers in the upper realms?!?), that seems like extreme overkill ;-)! I suppose I'd most like 6-8U worth of height, and something not requiring trucks or concrete drilling. (And a pony? :-)) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 22 22:34:41 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 18:34:41 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <505E3D01.1010504@alteeve.ca> On 09/22/2012 06:26 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > I recently inherited a couple of 2U servers, and was wondering if anyone > has reasonable sources for small racks. kijiji pointed out an 18 foot > one (seems like you'd need a fork lift to put servers in the upper > realms?!?), that seems like extreme overkill ;-)! > > I suppose I'd most like 6-8U worth of height, and something not > requiring trucks or concrete drilling. (And a pony? :-)) How deep? -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 22 22:35:43 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 18:35:43 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <505E3D3F.7060307@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > > I recently inherited a couple of 2U servers, and was wondering if > anyone has reasonable sources for small racks. kijiji pointed out an > 18 foot one (seems like you'd need a fork lift to put servers in the > upper realms?!?), that seems like extreme overkill ;-)! > > I suppose I'd most like 6-8U worth of height, and something not > requiring trucks or concrete drilling. (And a pony? :-)) > You might try Electro Sonic. They have a variety of racks and cabinets from Hammond. Sayal might also have something. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 22 22:52:28 2012 From: andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Heagle) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 18:52:28 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just make one, or two: http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > I recently inherited a couple of 2U servers, and was wondering if anyone > has reasonable sources for small racks. kijiji pointed out an 18 foot one > (seems like you'd need a fork lift to put servers in the upper realms?!?), > that seems like extreme overkill ;-)! > > I suppose I'd most like 6-8U worth of height, and something not requiring > trucks or concrete drilling. (And a pony? :-)) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 22 23:18:11 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 19:18:11 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1348355891.3321.2.camel@tecumseth3> On Sat, 2012-09-22 at 18:26 -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > I recently inherited a couple of 2U servers, and was wondering if > anyone has reasonable sources for small racks. kijiji pointed out an > 18 foot one (seems like you'd need a fork lift to put servers in the > upper realms?!?), that seems like extreme overkill ;-)! > > I suppose I'd most like 6-8U worth of height, and something not > requiring trucks or concrete drilling. (And a pony? :-)) > I got a little 8-unit 19" L-shaped rack for music equipment. It might have come from Saved by Technology -- West off Yonge, South of Wellesley, north up the alley. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 22 23:28:52 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 16:28:52 -0700 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's what I did for my switch and patch-panel. You need to re-enforce the lower leg to hold bigger/heavier stuff though On Sep 22, 2012 3:53 PM, "Andrew Heagle" wrote: > Just make one, or two: > http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack > > > On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > >> I recently inherited a couple of 2U servers, and was wondering if anyone >> has reasonable sources for small racks. kijiji pointed out an 18 foot one >> (seems like you'd need a fork lift to put servers in the upper realms?!?), >> that seems like extreme overkill ;-)! >> >> I suppose I'd most like 6-8U worth of height, and something not requiring >> trucks or concrete drilling. (And a pony? :-)) >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 22 23:48:51 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 19:48:51 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > I recently inherited a couple of 2U servers, and was wondering if anyone has > reasonable sources for small racks. kijiji pointed out an 18 foot one > (seems like you'd need a fork lift to put servers in the upper realms?!?), > that seems like extreme overkill ;-)! > > I suppose I'd most like 6-8U worth of height, and something not requiring > trucks or concrete drilling. (And a pony? :-)) A little on the expensive side, but they do have an office in Markham and 15U racks (among other types) : http://ca.blackbox.com/ Might also want to look at : http://www.apc.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 23 01:22:31 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 21:22:31 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Andrew Heagle wrote: > Just make one, or two: > http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack Buying racks at Ikea seems like the most awesome answer thus far! Worth a visit. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 23 07:57:34 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 03:57:34 -0400 Subject: Tent distributed social networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <505EC0EE.7040900@sobac.com> Here's another thing: Activity Pump -- there's a mockup at http://statusnetdev.net/inbox.html You can read a brief conversation with developer Evan Prodromou at http://statusnetdev.net/inbox.html I wouldn't be surprised if Activity Pump incorporates the tent.io protocol. I've seen comments from Evan encouraging the effort. --Bob. Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Phone: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cell: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting On 12-09-21 06:52 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > Seen on teh InterWebz... Yet another would-be alternative to FakeBook > and such... > > http://tent.io/ > > Unlike some attempts at such, they have a focus on What Is The > Protocol, and while they offer a sample implementation, that's not > intended to be the only one. Which seems a way better idea to me > than, um, wasn't it Diaspora? > > What fills me with greater "warm fuzzies" about Tent is that it seems > to be aware of some of the things that took place vastly long before > Facebook... > > "Tent began after a conversation between Jonathan Rudenberg, Daniel > Siders, Jesse Stuart, and Lucas Wojciechowski. It was inspired by > Hypertext, Xanadu, SMTP, the World Wide Web, and distributed > peer-to-peer services." > > If they were thinking about Dream Machines/Computer Lib, that seems > rather more inspiring than "Let'z be 3l33t and clone Facebook!" > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 23 08:07:19 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 10:07:19 +0200 Subject: Tent distributed social networking In-Reply-To: <505EC0EE.7040900-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <505EC0EE.7040900@sobac.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > Here's another thing: Activity Pump -- there's a mockup at > http://statusnetdev.net/inbox.html > > You can read a brief conversation with developer Evan Prodromou at > http://statusnetdev.net/inbox.html > > I wouldn't be surprised if Activity Pump incorporates the tent.io > protocol. I've seen comments from Evan encouraging the effort. > > --Bob. > > Both links lad me to a Google+ profile of Annie B. from Montreal, I did not see there any interview with Evan Prodromou. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 23 16:24:15 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 12:24:15 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120923162415.GA25696@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 09:22:31PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Andrew Heagle wrote: > > Just make one, or two: > > http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack > > Buying racks at Ikea seems like the most awesome answer thus far! > Worth a visit. Wood catches fire. Try metal storage shelves from Home Depot, Canadian Tire, et al. There are galvanized ones for garage use, and vinyl-costed wire ones for kitchen/bathroom use. As long as the side fits, you can stack them with rubber washers in between for vibration. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 23 17:51:15 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 13:51:15 -0400 Subject: Tent distributed social networking In-Reply-To: References: <505EC0EE.7040900@sobac.com> Message-ID: <505F4C13.1050009@sobac.com> On 12-09-23 04:07 AM, Ori Idan wrote: > On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > >> Here's another thing: Activity Pump -- there's a mockup at >> http://statusnetdev.net/inbox.html >> >> You can read a brief conversation with developer Evan Prodromou at >> http://statusnetdev.net/inbox.html >> >> I wouldn't be surprised if Activity Pump incorporates the tent.io >> protocol. I've seen comments from Evan encouraging the effort. >> >> --Bob. >> >> Both links lad me to a Google+ profile of Annie B. from Montreal, I did > not see there any interview with Evan Prodromou. That's not a Google+ profile, that's an Activity Pump mockup. It's not a live system, but a series of linked static HTML pages to illustrate how the underlying Activity Streams could be displayed in a Web interface. Activity Streams info is at http://activitystrea.ms/ Apparently Google+ also uses Activity Streams, hence the similarity. There's a W3C ActivityPub Community Group at http://www.w3.org/community/blog/2012/03/16/call-for-participation-in-activitypub-community-group/ The second link to the Even Prodromou conversation should have been https://identi.ca/conversation/95392382#notice-96050587 --Bob. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 263 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 23 19:49:29 2012 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:49:29 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120923194929.GG24789@adb.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > I recently inherited a couple of 2U servers, and was wondering if anyone > has reasonable sources for small racks. kijiji pointed out an 18 foot one > (seems like you'd need a fork lift to put servers in the upper realms?!?), > that seems like extreme overkill ;-)! > > I suppose I'd most like 6-8U worth of height, and something not requiring > trucks or concrete drilling. (And a pony? :-)) Last time I was looking for 19" bits I found a good selection at Computer Square up in Markham. Sayal has a wee bit of rack stuff, but mostly for mounting punchdown strips. Note that all racks are not created equal; some gear expects to mount in a four-post rack cabinet, while other stuff is happy on a two-post relay rack. Also there are racks that take any of at least three different screw size/pitches (don't strip out the holes!), ones that ship with paint partially blocking the threads, and ones that have square holes that need a supply of special spring nuts. And sometimes second-hand servers and such are missing the rails they need to mount, and some system vendors seem to want to force you to buy their special oddball racks. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 23 20:01:36 2012 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:01:36 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: <20120923162415.GA25696-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120923162415.GA25696@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120923200136.GH24789@adb.ca> William Park wrote: > On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 09:22:31PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Andrew Heagle wrote: > > > http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack > > > > Buying racks at Ikea seems like the most awesome answer thus far! > > Worth a visit. > > Wood catches fire. Who said anything about wood? Burning Ikeastuff is likely to give off really toxic fumes, though. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 23 23:21:51 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 19:21:51 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: <20120923200136.GH24789-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20120923162415.GA25696@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120923200136.GH24789@adb.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Anthony de Boer wrote: > William Park wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 09:22:31PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >> > On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Andrew Heagle wrote: >> > > http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack >> > >> > Buying racks at Ikea seems like the most awesome answer thus far! >> > Worth a visit. >> >> Wood catches fire. > > Who said anything about wood? > > Burning Ikeastuff is likely to give off really toxic fumes, though. Indeed. Very little wood in this product. I picked up two of them this afternoon. The red one is, Wow, Is That Ever Red!!! I think I'm going to need some straps to wrap around the back part, otherwise it'll be mighty unbalanced, and probably rip screws out of the wood. The attractive idea would be to put a couple screw-in fasteners supportive of the server on the rear legs. I wonder if maybe I want to wrap a strap all the way around the top of the table; that'll distribute weight much more widely. Methinks there's a Rona visit in my near future. :-) -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 23 23:52:21 2012 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 19:52:21 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: <20120923200136.GH24789-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20120923162415.GA25696@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120923200136.GH24789@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20120923195221.476b9328202b01461fb14cbd@eol.ca> On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:01:36 -0400 Anthony de Boer wrote: > William Park wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 09:22:31PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Andrew Heagle wrote: > > > > http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack > > > > > > Buying racks at Ikea seems like the most awesome answer thus far! > > > Worth a visit. > > > > Wood catches fire. > > Who said anything about wood? > > Burning Ikeastuff is likely to give off really toxic fumes, though. I am getting into building furniture here at home. Wood makes excellent shelves. Far better than the chipboard crap that comes with cheap bookshelves. Shelves actually are not that hard to do, and they support both ends of your box, I have done the mechanical design for a number of 19" rack boxes, at work. 1U and 2U boxes generally need support at the rear, unless they are very short. Shelves are good. Hint: A Unit (U) is 1.75". The actual boxes are slightly lower than their unit height. If your shelves are spaced slighly more, say 1.80" (46mm), you should be fine. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 23 23:56:56 2012 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 19:56:56 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: <20120923194929.GG24789-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20120923194929.GG24789@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20120923195656.8f12a5bf1b64a7e1d00a20e9@eol.ca> On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:49:29 -0400 Anthony de Boer wrote: > > Note that all racks are not created equal; some gear expects to mount in > a four-post rack cabinet, while other stuff is happy on a two-post relay > rack. Also there are racks that take any of at least three different > screw size/pitches (don't strip out the holes!), ones that ship with > paint partially blocking the threads, and ones that have square holes > that need a supply of special spring nuts. And sometimes second-hand > servers and such are missing the rails they need to mount, and some > system vendors seem to want to force you to buy their special oddball > racks. Anthony, The standard is for the holes to be 10-32UNF. I have seen M6X1. Paint can be easily removed with a tap of the correct thread size. If you need the clip-in nuts, I can figure out where to find them. They actually, are very convenient and strong. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 02:03:35 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 22:03:35 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: <20120923195656.8f12a5bf1b64a7e1d00a20e9-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120923194929.GG24789@adb.ca> <20120923195656.8f12a5bf1b64a7e1d00a20e9@eol.ca> Message-ID: <505FBF77.6090602@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > The standard is for the holes to be 10-32UNF. I have seen M6X1. Paint can be easily removed with a tap of the correct thread size. If you need the clip-in nuts, I can figure out where to find them. They actually, are very convenient and strong. In my experience, it's the computer/server racks that have rear rails and tend to have captive nuts. They also have larger screws than regular racks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 03:55:50 2012 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 23:55:50 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: <20120923195656.8f12a5bf1b64a7e1d00a20e9-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120923194929.GG24789@adb.ca> <20120923195656.8f12a5bf1b64a7e1d00a20e9@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20120924035550.GJ24789@adb.ca> Howard Gibson wrote: > Anthony de Boer wrote: > > .. Also there are racks that take any of at least three different > > screw size/pitches (don't strip out the holes!), ones that ship with > > paint partially blocking the threads, ... > > Anthony, > > The standard is for the holes to be 10-32UNF. I have seen M6X1. Yes. #insert the Tanenbaum quote about the wonderful thing about standards being the multitude of them to pick from. Years ago at 151 we had some aluminum racks that took #12 or #14 screws, and I'm fairly certain I ran up against #10-24 racking once. Being gentle with a hand screwdriver the first time and not forcing the threads will help figure out what it wants. If you haven't already read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenace" get a copy. (Likewise peecees have a mixture of coarse-pitch and fine-pitch screws, coarse for cases and PSUs and HDs but fine for floppy and optical drives, and I'm sure there are a lot of stripped holes out there.) Throw away the Philips-head screws that come with some rack gear and get Robertson-head ones; this lets you balance the server on one arm with the screw stuck on the bit in the electric screwdriver and get it installed solo. Make sure the second screw is in reach, of course, and it's the bottom ones that are the important ones to get first. And short screws (3/8" or at most 1/2") go in quicker; someone I worked with once thought 1" screws were better, but they just took longer to get in or out and don't add any strength. Temporarily installing a shelf upside-down is a useful trick when you have heavy gear to install over vacant rack space. > Paint can be easily removed with a tap of the correct thread size. Even more so when the tap is in a drill chuck in the aforementioned electric screwdriver. > If you need the clip-in nuts, I can figure out where to find them. They actually, are very convenient and strong. Back at a previous employer, they were in very short supply, and various of my coworkers were like squirrels hiding their nuts in various small caches around the datacentre. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 04:18:20 2012 From: erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Erik Levinson) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 04:18:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Multiple Dell PowerEdge 1850s and 2850s for sale - $200 Message-ID: We have a total of eight Dell PowerEdge 1850s and 2850s for sale. These have been used in a production environment at our 151 Front Street data centre until now and are being sold only because we're replacing them with newer gear. None of the servers come with hard drives as we're keeping all drives. PE1850s are 1U servers with mostly 4GB of RAM, 64-bit two dual-core Xeon 3.4Ghz CPUs, PERC4 RAID controller, dual power supplies, rails, cd drive. PE2850s are similar except they have two dual-core Xeon 3.2Ghz CPUs and they're 2U boxes with more drive bays. $200 for each server. Pick up is only from 151 Front Street West at a mutually convenient time. Thanks Erik -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 05:18:19 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 01:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Multiple Dell PowerEdge 1850s and 2850s for sale - $200 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Erik Levinson Thanks for offering these here. | PE1850s are 1U servers with mostly 4GB of RAM, 64-bit two dual-core Xeon 3.4Ghz | CPUs, PERC4 RAID controller, dual power supplies, rails, cd drive. | | PE2850s are similar except they have two dual-core Xeon 3.2Ghz CPUs and they're | 2U boxes with more drive bays. What are the processor model numbers? I'm guessing that they are NetBurst (P4 family). Perhaps 7130M and 7140M, 150W TDP per socket, 300W per system. $1400 and $2000 per chip at release in 2006! I bet the cooling solution roars (typical for rack-mounted servers anyway). SCSI disks might be be a bit expensive to replace (small, low capacity, fast). RAM is probably registered DDR2 with ECC. Better than the "hope it works" stuff in ordinary PCs. (I'm 12 hours into memtest86+ on some notebook RAM I bought yesterday, wishing all RAM was ECC.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 06:24:15 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 02:24:15 -0400 Subject: Multiple Dell PowerEdge 1850s and 2850s for sale - $200 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120924062415.GA28837@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 01:18:19AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > From: Erik Levinson > > PE1850s are 1U servers with mostly 4GB of RAM, 64-bit two dual-core > > Xeon 3.4Ghz CPUs, PERC4 RAID controller, dual power supplies, rails, > > cd drive. > > > > PE2850s are similar except they have two dual-core Xeon 3.2Ghz CPUs > > and they're 2U boxes with more drive bays. ... > SCSI disks might be be a bit expensive to replace (small, low > capacity, fast). Looks like harddisks will be more expensive than the rack itself. :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 11:59:39 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:59:39 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: <20120924035550.GJ24789-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20120923194929.GG24789@adb.ca> <20120923195656.8f12a5bf1b64a7e1d00a20e9@eol.ca> <20120924035550.GJ24789@adb.ca> Message-ID: <50604B2B.30808@rogers.com> Anthony de Boer wrote: > Temporarily installing a shelf upside-down is a useful trick when you > have heavy gear to install over vacant rack space. One trick I have often used is to insert screws just below where the bottom edge is to go, leaving enough of the screw out, so that the panel can rest on top of the screws. It's then a simple matter to drive in the mounting screws, while slightly lifting the end of the equipment. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 13:20:35 2012 From: erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Erik Levinson) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:20:35 -0400 Subject: Multiple Dell PowerEdge 1850s and 2850s for sale - $200 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50605E23.8060107@uberflip.com> > > What are the processor model numbers? > /proc/cpuinfo from one of the 1850s: processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 15 model : 4 model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.40GHz stepping : 3 cpu MHz : 3391.990 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 1 apicid : 0 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 5 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc pni monitor ds_cpl est cid cx16 xtpr bogomips : 6783.98 processor : 1 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 15 model : 4 model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.40GHz stepping : 3 cpu MHz : 3391.990 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 1 apicid : 1 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 5 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc pni monitor ds_cpl est cid cx16 xtpr bogomips : 6783.48 processor : 2 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 15 model : 4 model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.40GHz stepping : 3 cpu MHz : 3391.990 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 3 siblings : 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 1 apicid : 6 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 5 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc pni monitor ds_cpl est cid cx16 xtpr bogomips : 6783.51 processor : 3 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 15 model : 4 model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.40GHz stepping : 3 cpu MHz : 3391.990 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 3 siblings : 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 1 apicid : 7 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 5 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc pni monitor ds_cpl est cid cx16 xtpr bogomips : 6783.50 From one of the 2850s: processor : 0 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 15 model : 4 model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz stepping : 3 cpu MHz : 3192.495 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 1 apicid : 0 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 5 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc pni monitor ds_cpl cid cx16 xtpr bogomips : 6387.87 processor : 1 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 15 model : 4 model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz stepping : 3 cpu MHz : 3192.495 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 1 apicid : 1 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 5 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc pni monitor ds_cpl cid cx16 xtpr bogomips : 6384.44 processor : 2 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 15 model : 4 model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz stepping : 3 cpu MHz : 3192.495 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 3 siblings : 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 1 apicid : 6 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 5 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc pni monitor ds_cpl cid cx16 xtpr bogomips : 6384.47 processor : 3 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 15 model : 4 model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz stepping : 3 cpu MHz : 3192.495 cache size : 2048 KB physical id : 3 siblings : 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 1 apicid : 7 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 5 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc pni monitor ds_cpl cid cx16 xtpr bogomips : 6384.47 > > RAM is probably registered DDR2 with ECC. Better than the "hope it > works" stuff in ordinary PCs. (I'm 12 hours into memtest86+ on some > notebook RAM I bought yesterday, wishing all RAM was ECC.) Memory example from dmidecode on an 2850: Memory Device Array Handle: 0x1000 Error Information Handle: Not Provided Total Width: 72 bits Data Width: 64 bits Size: 1024 MB Form Factor: DIMM Set: 1 Locator: DIMM1_A Bank Locator: Not Specified Type: DDR2 Type Detail: Synchronous Speed: 400 MHz (2.5 ns) Manufacturer: C100000000000000 Serial Number: 0603A315 Asset Tag: 560512 Part Number: 72T128000HR5A From an 1850: Memory Device Array Handle: 0x1000 Error Information Handle: Not Provided Total Width: 72 bits Data Width: 64 bits Size: 2048 MB Form Factor: DIMM Set: 1 Locator: DIMM1_A Bank Locator: Not Specified Type: DDR2 Type Detail: Synchronous Speed: 400 MHz Manufacturer: CE00000000000000 Serial Number: F51ECFFB Asset Tag: Not Specified Part Number: M3 93T5750CZ3-CCC -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 13:35:46 2012 From: andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Heagle) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:35:46 -0400 Subject: Small rack sourcing In-Reply-To: References: <20120923162415.GA25696@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120923200136.GH24789@adb.ca> Message-ID: Post some pics when you done On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Anthony de Boer wrote: > > William Park wrote: > >> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 09:22:31PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > >> > On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Andrew Heagle > wrote: > >> > > http://wiki.eth-0.nl/index.php/LackRack > >> > > >> > Buying racks at Ikea seems like the most awesome answer thus far! > >> > Worth a visit. > >> > >> Wood catches fire. > > > > Who said anything about wood? > > > > Burning Ikeastuff is likely to give off really toxic fumes, though. > > Indeed. Very little wood in this product. > > I picked up two of them this afternoon. The red one is, Wow, Is That > Ever Red!!! > > I think I'm going to need some straps to wrap around the back part, > otherwise it'll be mighty unbalanced, and probably rip screws out of > the wood. The attractive idea would be to put a couple screw-in > fasteners supportive of the server on the rear legs. I wonder if > maybe I want to wrap a strap all the way around the top of the table; > that'll distribute weight much more widely. > > Methinks there's a Rona visit in my near future. :-) > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 15:17:52 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:17:52 -0400 Subject: FSOSS announced Message-ID: I just got a note about the upcoming FSOSS conference at the end of October. Looks interesting. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 15:20:58 2012 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 08:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FSOSS announced In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1348500058.56367.YahooMailNeo@web140603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ________________________________ From: Christopher Browne To: TLUG Mailing List Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:17:52 AM Subject: [TLUG]: FSOSS announced I just got a note about the upcoming FSOSS conference at the end of October.? Looks interesting. A little more information, please, ?would be nice.... -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 15:30:54 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:30:54 -0400 Subject: FSOSS announced In-Reply-To: <1348500058.56367.YahooMailNeo-mhNdJOJujDYeBhY5O9xny5EhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1348500058.56367.YahooMailNeo@web140603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry, neglected to include URL. FSOSS.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 16:37:51 2012 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FSOSS announced In-Reply-To: References: <1348500058.56367.YahooMailNeo@web140603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1348504671.69851.YahooMailNeo@web140606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Sorry, neglected to include URL. FSOSS.ca Thanks for this, Chris. It does sound interesting, relatively inexpensive too! -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 17:39:29 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 13:39:29 -0400 Subject: FSOSS announced In-Reply-To: References: <1348500058.56367.YahooMailNeo@web140603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50609AD1.4010801@ve3syb.ca> On 12-09-24 11:30 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > FSOSS.ca Ah, the annual event at Seneca. Too bad (for me) they hold it at the York campus. That's about as far away from me as its possible to get while still being reachable by bus. :-P P.S. Above was sent again as Thunderbird said there was an error when I tried to send it the first time. Apologies if it winds up showing up twice. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 17:54:23 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 13:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Multiple Dell PowerEdge 1850s and 2850s for sale - $200 In-Reply-To: <50605E23.8060107-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <50605E23.8060107@uberflip.com> Message-ID: | From: Erik Levinson | > What are the processor model numbers? | | /proc/cpuinfo from one of the 1850s: | | processor : 0 | vendor_id : GenuineIntel | cpu family : 15 | model : 4 | model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.40GHz | stepping : 3 That's NetBurst. Beyond that, it's hard to figure out what model. But that's the important information. | > RAM is probably registered DDR2 with ECC. | Memory example from dmidecode on an 2850: | | Memory Device | Array Handle: 0x1000 | Error Information Handle: Not Provided | Total Width: 72 bits | Data Width: 64 bits That's ECC (each 8-byte word has 8 additional bits for ECC) | Type: DDR2 But I don't know how to tell if it is registered. Almost all recent ECC memory is registered, so this is just of theoretical interest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 18:06:30 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 14:06:30 -0400 Subject: Multiple Dell PowerEdge 1850s and 2850s for sale - $200 In-Reply-To: References: <50605E23.8060107@uberflip.com> Message-ID: Erik, > | > What are the processor model numbers? > | > | /proc/cpuinfo from one of the 1850s: > | > | processor : 0 > | vendor_id : GenuineIntel > | cpu family : 15 > | model : 4 > | model name : Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.40GHz > | stepping : 3 > > That's NetBurst. Beyond that, it's hard to figure out what model. But > that's the important information. May be the output of dmidecode may provide the model number? You able to post that Erik? > > | > RAM is probably registered DDR2 with ECC. > > | Memory example from dmidecode on an 2850: > | > | Memory Device > | Array Handle: 0x1000 > | Error Information Handle: Not Provided > | Total Width: 72 bits > | Data Width: 64 bits > > That's ECC (each 8-byte word has 8 additional bits for ECC) > This one I had got wrong, but it now make sense why we have two width information. Wonder what "Error Information Handle: Not Provided" mean now. I had initially taken that to mean ECC not supported William > | Type: DDR2 > > But I don't know how to tell if it is registered. Almost all recent > ECC memory is registered, so this is just of theoretical interest. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 18:11:11 2012 From: erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Erik Levinson) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 14:11:11 -0400 Subject: Multiple Dell PowerEdge 1850s and 2850s for sale - $200 In-Reply-To: References: <50605E23.8060107@uberflip.com> Message-ID: <5060A23F.3080908@uberflip.com> > > May be the output of dmidecode may provide the model number? You able > to post that Erik? >> 1850: Handle 0x0400, DMI type 4, 35 bytes Processor Information Socket Designation: PROC_1 Type: Central Processor Family: Xeon Manufacturer: Intel ID: 43 0F 00 00 FF FB EB BF Signature: Type 0, Family 15, Model 4, Stepping 3 Flags: FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip) VME (Virtual mode extension) DE (Debugging extension) PSE (Page size extension) TSC (Time stamp counter) MSR (Model specific registers) PAE (Physical address extension) MCE (Machine check exception) CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported) APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported) SEP (Fast system call) MTRR (Memory type range registers) PGE (Page global enable) MCA (Machine check architecture) CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported) PAT (Page attribute table) PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension) CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported) DS (Debug store) ACPI (ACPI supported) MMX (MMX technology supported) FXSR (Fast floating-point save and restore) SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions) SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2) SS (Self-snoop) HTT (Hyper-threading technology) TM (Thermal monitor supported) PBE (Pending break enabled) Version: Not Specified Voltage: 1.4 V External Clock: 800 MHz Max Speed: 3600 MHz Current Speed: 3400 MHz Status: Populated, Enabled Upgrade: ZIF Socket L1 Cache Handle: 0x0700 L2 Cache Handle: 0x0701 L3 Cache Handle: 0x0702 Serial Number: Not Specified Asset Tag: Not Specified Part Number: Not Specified Handle 0x0401, DMI type 4, 35 bytes Processor Information Socket Designation: PROC_2 Type: Central Processor Family: Xeon Manufacturer: Intel ID: 43 0F 00 00 FF FB EB BF Signature: Type 0, Family 15, Model 4, Stepping 3 Flags: FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip) VME (Virtual mode extension) DE (Debugging extension) PSE (Page size extension) TSC (Time stamp counter) MSR (Model specific registers) PAE (Physical address extension) MCE (Machine check exception) CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported) APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported) SEP (Fast system call) MTRR (Memory type range registers) PGE (Page global enable) MCA (Machine check architecture) CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported) PAT (Page attribute table) PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension) CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported) DS (Debug store) ACPI (ACPI supported) MMX (MMX technology supported) FXSR (Fast floating-point save and restore) SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions) SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2) SS (Self-snoop) HTT (Hyper-threading technology) TM (Thermal monitor supported) PBE (Pending break enabled) Version: Not Specified Voltage: 1.4 V External Clock: 800 MHz Max Speed: 3600 MHz Current Speed: 3400 MHz Status: Populated, Idle Upgrade: ZIF Socket L1 Cache Handle: 0x0703 L2 Cache Handle: 0x0704 L3 Cache Handle: 0x0705 Serial Number: Not Specified Asset Tag: Not Specified Part Number: Not Specified And 2850: Handle 0x0400, DMI type 4, 40 bytes. Processor Information Socket Designation: PROC_1 Type: Central Processor Family: Xeon Manufacturer: Intel ID: 43 0F 00 00 FF FB EB BF Signature: Type 0, Family 15, Model 4, Stepping 3 Flags: FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip) VME (Virtual mode extension) DE (Debugging extension) PSE (Page size extension) TSC (Time stamp counter) MSR (Model specific registers) PAE (Physical address extension) MCE (Machine check exception) CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported) APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported) SEP (Fast system call) MTRR (Memory type range registers) PGE (Page global enable) MCA (Machine check architecture) CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported) PAT (Page attribute table) PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension) CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported) DS (Debug store) ACPI (ACPI supported) MMX (MMX technology supported) FXSR (Fast floating-point save and restore) SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions) SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2) SS (Self-snoop) HTT (Hyper-threading technology) TM (Thermal monitor supported) PBE (Pending break enabled) Version: Not Specified Voltage: 1.4 V External Clock: 800 MHz Max Speed: 3600 MHz Current Speed: 3200 MHz Status: Populated, Enabled Upgrade: ZIF Socket L1 Cache Handle: 0x0700 L2 Cache Handle: 0x0701 L3 Cache Handle: 0x0702 Serial Number: Not Specified Asset Tag: Not Specified Part Number: Not Specified Handle 0x0401, DMI type 4, 40 bytes. Processor Information Socket Designation: PROC_2 Type: Central Processor Family: Xeon Manufacturer: Intel ID: 43 0F 00 00 FF FB EB BF Signature: Type 0, Family 15, Model 4, Stepping 3 Flags: FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip) VME (Virtual mode extension) DE (Debugging extension) PSE (Page size extension) TSC (Time stamp counter) MSR (Model specific registers) PAE (Physical address extension) MCE (Machine check exception) CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported) APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported) SEP (Fast system call) MTRR (Memory type range registers) PGE (Page global enable) MCA (Machine check architecture) CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported) PAT (Page attribute table) PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension) CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported) DS (Debug store) ACPI (ACPI supported) MMX (MMX technology supported) FXSR (Fast floating-point save and restore) SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions) SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2) SS (Self-snoop) HTT (Hyper-threading technology) TM (Thermal monitor supported) PBE (Pending break enabled) Version: Not Specified Voltage: 1.4 V External Clock: 800 MHz Max Speed: 3600 MHz Current Speed: 3200 MHz Status: Populated, Idle Upgrade: ZIF Socket L1 Cache Handle: 0x0703 L2 Cache Handle: 0x0704 L3 Cache Handle: 0x0705 Serial Number: Not Specified Asset Tag: Not Specified Part Number: Not Specified -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 20:32:05 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 16:32:05 -0400 Subject: FSOSS announced In-Reply-To: <5060BB86.9060908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1348500058.56367.YahooMailNeo@web140603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <50609AD1.4010801@ve3syb.ca> <5060BB86.9060908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5060C345.1040702@ve3syb.ca> On 12-09-24 03:59 PM, David Collier-Brown wrote: > They're digging a tunnel, so it's going to be as far away as you can get > while playing troglodyte (;-)) I'm in Markham in the general area of Highway 7 and McCowan. Travel time to York U would probably be on the order of a couple hours one way. The thought of spending half a day travelling (round trip) no longer has much appeal to me. Not to mention the early start to the day to get to a conference which starts rather early in the AM. I vote for a conference out in the north east area of Toronto. :-) -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 21:15:13 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 17:15:13 -0400 Subject: FSOSS announced In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120924211513.GA4726@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 11:17:52AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > I just got a note about the upcoming FSOSS conference at the end of > October. Looks interesting. I just signed up, mainly because of CUDA. How much is the parking at York U? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 24 22:55:50 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:55:50 -0400 Subject: FSOSS announced In-Reply-To: <5060C345.1040702-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1348500058.56367.YahooMailNeo@web140603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <50609AD1.4010801@ve3syb.ca> <5060BB86.9060908@rogers.com> <5060C345.1040702@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20120924225550.GE23027@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 04:32:05PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > I'm in Markham in the general area of Highway 7 and McCowan. Travel > time to York U would probably be on the order of a couple hours one > way. The thought of spending half a day travelling (round trip) no > longer has much appeal to me. Not to mention the early start to the > day to get to a conference which starts rather early in the AM. > > I vote for a conference out in the north east area of Toronto. :-) Travel by what method? It's even a single bus from there (viva purple). Probably a bit over an hour bus trip depending on traffic. By car on the 407 it is less than 30 minutes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 25 00:03:07 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:03:07 -0400 Subject: Database Diversity Message-ID: The exec has been musing about the idea of doing a panel on databases We know we have some people we can poke at for comments about CouchDB, Postgres, likely DB2. We're wondering if there are folks out there with involvement with other databases. Thoughts include MongoDB (for maximum "Web Scale"! :-)), Cassandra, perhaps Bloated Goats, I mean, Lotus Notes, perhaps some of the Oracle-owned databases, perhaps RDB :-). -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 25 00:12:37 2012 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:12:37 -0400 Subject: FSOSS announced In-Reply-To: References: <1348500058.56367.YahooMailNeo@web140603.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120925001237.GK24789@adb.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > FSOSS.ca I'm particularly fascinated by the "Free as in Beer Reception", which very elegantly implies but *never actually promises* any of the aforementioned sudsy libation. Clever, that! But seriously, hoping it will be a success. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 25 00:39:51 2012 From: erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:39:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Database Diversity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1348533591.557727652@apps.rackspace.com> We're running MySQL, InfoBright, Postgresql, and soon MongoDB. We have over 600 million records in a single table and are adding millions per day, so while this isn't huge, it's not too small either. Erik -----Original Message----- From: "Christopher Browne" Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:03pm To: "TLUG Mailing List" Subject: [TLUG]: Database Diversity The exec has been musing about the idea of doing a panel on databases We know we have some people we can poke at for comments about CouchDB, Postgres, likely DB2. We're wondering if there are folks out there with involvement with other databases. Thoughts include MongoDB (for maximum "Web Scale"! :-)), Cassandra, perhaps Bloated Goats, I mean, Lotus Notes, perhaps some of the Oracle-owned databases, perhaps RDB :-). -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 25 17:43:04 2012 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:43:04 -0400 Subject: how to have /dev/audio on ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <505C85AD.9010008-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <505B62F9.7030106@gmail.com> <505C85AD.9010008@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sound has traditionally been one of the more confusing issues in setting up linux. I would have sent this earlier but I don't use pulseaudio at home. Here's how it is set up on the computer I'm at today. Newer hardware and running Fedora 17 3.3.4-5.fc17.i686. # which pulseaudio /bin/pulseaudio In the following "by-id" and "by-path" are directories which contain symlink connections to the hardware links in their parent /dev/snd directory; # ls -la /dev/snd total 0 drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 480 Sep 23 16:17 . drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4060 Sep 24 11:23 .. drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 60 Sep 23 16:17 by-id drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 100 Sep 23 16:17 by-path crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 8 Sep 23 16:17 controlC0 crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 17 Sep 23 16:17 controlC1 crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 19 Sep 23 16:17 controlC2 crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 7 Sep 23 16:17 hwC0D2 crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 16 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D0 crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 15 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D1 crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 14 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D2 crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 13 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D3 crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 6 Sep 25 10:20 pcmC0D0c crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 5 Sep 25 10:15 pcmC0D0p crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 4 Sep 25 08:43 pcmC0D1c crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 3 Sep 25 08:43 pcmC0D1p crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 2 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC0D2c crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 12 Sep 25 08:43 pcmC1D3p crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 11 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC1D7p crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 10 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC1D8p crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 9 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC1D9p crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 18 Sep 25 10:20 pcmC2D0c crw-rw---- 1 root audio 116, 1 Sep 23 16:17 seq crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 33 Sep 23 16:17 timer controlC0, C1 and C2 are the three cards detected by the os. In this case cat /proc/asound/cards - shows C0 is the onboard sound card, C1 is the Tv tuner and C2 is the mic on the USB camera. # cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [Intel ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel HDA Intel at 0xfbff4000 irq 42 1 [NVidia ]: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia HDA NVidia at 0xfaffc000 irq 17 2 [USB20Camera ]: USB-Audio - USB2.0_Camera PixArt Imaging Inc. USB2.0_Camera at usb-0000:00:1a The other detected bits of hardware in /dev/snd are: the several hwCoD* which link the four HDMI sound output channels of the Tv tuner card and the primary sound card's third subsystem device (pcmC0D2c) for HDMI input. The pcmC0D0* are standard computer audio capture and playback devices. (mic, line in, line out, etc) The ones ending with "c" are capture and the ones ending in "p" are playback. C0 = three input and two output channels C1 = four output channels C2 = one output channel. Historically the joy and the sorrow of setting up a sound system under linux has been linking a sound source to an output sink. It is sometimes desirable to access the sound hardware directly from a command line. This following would use ALSA (arecord) to capture the audio from an analogue tv-card by piping that signal to the first subsystem of the second audio card (hw: 1,0), at an appropriate playback, quality in Hertz (-r 32000) and in stereo over two channels (-c 2), further this command defines the signal is appropriate for a Sound Blaster type card (-f S16_LE). tvtime | arecord -D hw:1,0 -r 32000 -c 2 -f S16_LE | aplay This machine using arecord with the above string would try to link the first subsystem on the second card to a default output sink [controlC0:pcmC0D0p], and not work because on the other machine another sound device was enumerated before the primary sound card. (udev burp) This machine would use hw:0,0 if it had to be done this way. This shell snippet was for one of those tv cards which had an external 1/8in pin connector to connect the sound output from the tv card to the line in of the sound card, so sound would work for Windows. I could never get that hardware configuration to work in linux. So we grabbed the signal from the bus in a more traditional way. Your solution may be as simple as configuring siggen to use the directory /dev/snd instead of /dev/audio. (assuming Ubuntu puts stuff in /dev/snd) If your system is set up with OSS, these symlinks might be placed in /dev/pcm. If you find the directory holding these hardware links you could try symlinking that directory to /dev/audio As root #ln -s /dev/audio - might work and siggen will figure out which sink is where. I know this probably isn't any clearer than anything else you've read on setting up sound but don't be afraid of breaking software, fixing it again is half the fun :-) Russell On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > I remain confused. But I want to thank for responses, Russell and Mel. > > It seems that if I do not want to risk damaging the existing sound system I > should not play too deep with what is there already. > > Fortunately, I have another box with Centos, and /dev/audio is still there. > > zb. > > On 09/21/2012 12:59 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: >> >> Ubuntu did not do a very good job of integrating pulseaudio. It's got >> a lot of features but demands complete control over the sound hardware >> and it looks like the Ubuntu folks rolled it out too quickly. >> >> If your hardware is older it might be better to go back to ALSA/OSS. I >> haven't seen many problems with pulseaudio in newer equipment with >> newer installs. >> >> I think ALSA still present in Ubuntu >> >> On the command line >> $speaker-test (plays white noise) >> $aplay - l (lists playback devices) >> $arecord -l (lists record devices) >> >> $alsamixer (make sure PCM volume is not muted.) >> >> or $pavucontrol (under pulse for the same reason.) >> >> This site may be helpful. >> >> http://www.hecticgeek.com/2012/01/how-to-remove-pulseaudio-use-alsa-ubuntu-linux/ >> >> Hope this helps >> Russell >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Zbigniew Koziol >> wrote: >>> >>> I am so much confused by reading web, and I swear I never understood how >>> sound works (except of the times of DOS). >>> >>> My program reports: >>> >>> [siggen] No such file or directory : /dev/audio >>> >>> "siggen" is the name of the program I want to use, but the error message, >>> I >>> guess, is not related to the program itself. >>> >>> So, how can I make siggen not reporting that silly error message but just >>> working right away? >>> >>> My Ubuntu version is one of the latest ones. >>> >>> zb. >>> http://nanolab.gu-unpk.ru/ >>> >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 26 05:10:44 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 01:10:44 -0400 Subject: [OT] Fourier analysis question using Gnumeric Message-ID: <20120926051043.GA10020@waltdnes.org> This is a personal project, not a homework assignment. I have a rather noisy series of approximately 24,000 data points. Gnumeric's FFT analysis insists on a whole-number power of 2, so I'll use the last 16,384 data points. I highlighted the data, and in the menu selected... ==> Statistics ==> Dependant observations ==> Fourier analysis The final output was 2 columns ("Real" and "Imaginary") of 16,384 rows of numbers. Now what? How do I interpret the output? Anybody here with some stats knowledge? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 26 05:20:16 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 01:20:16 -0400 Subject: [OT] Fourier analysis question using Gnumeric In-Reply-To: <20120926051043.GA10020-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120926051043.GA10020@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120926052016.GA14163@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 01:10:44AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > This is a personal project, not a homework assignment. I have a > rather noisy series of approximately 24,000 data points. Gnumeric's FFT > analysis insists on a whole-number power of 2, so I'll use the last > 16,384 data points. I highlighted the data, and in the menu selected... > > ==> Statistics ==> Dependant observations ==> Fourier analysis > > The final output was 2 columns ("Real" and "Imaginary") of 16,384 > rows of numbers. Now what? How do I interpret the output? Anybody > here with some stats knowledge? What you do want at the end? Real signal is time-based, so frequency spectrum is just the mean, not the end. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 26 05:46:19 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 01:46:19 -0400 Subject: [OT] Fourier analysis question using Gnumeric In-Reply-To: <20120926052016.GA14163-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120926051043.GA10020@waltdnes.org> <20120926052016.GA14163@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120926054619.GA14232@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 01:20:16AM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 01:10:44AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > This is a personal project, not a homework assignment. I have a > > rather noisy series of approximately 24,000 data points. Gnumeric's FFT > > analysis insists on a whole-number power of 2, so I'll use the last > > 16,384 data points. I highlighted the data, and in the menu selected... > > > > ==> Statistics ==> Dependant observations ==> Fourier analysis > > > > The final output was 2 columns ("Real" and "Imaginary") of 16,384 > > rows of numbers. Now what? How do I interpret the output? Anybody > > here with some stats knowledge? > > What you do want at the end? Real signal is time-based, so frequency ^^^^^^\__ do you Beer and Email don't mix! > spectrum is just the mean, not the end. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 26 12:26:30 2012 From: el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 08:26:30 -0400 Subject: [OT] Fourier analysis question using Gnumeric In-Reply-To: <20120926051043.GA10020-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120926051043.GA10020@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:10 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > This is a personal project, not a homework assignment. I have a > rather noisy series of approximately 24,000 data points. Gnumeric's FFT > analysis insists on a whole-number power of 2, so I'll use the last > 16,384 data points. I highlighted the data, and in the menu selected... > > ==> Statistics ==> Dependant observations ==> Fourier analysis > > The final output was 2 columns ("Real" and "Imaginary") of 16,384 > rows of numbers. Now what? How do I interpret the output? Anybody > here with some stats knowledge? > Oi. Stats <=~=> Spectral analysis. Once I resigned myself to this (a while ago), I breathed a sigh of relief and went about my day :-) First, you might want to pad your 24000 data to 32768 with uninteresting data (zero etc.), if you care about having it all counted. Second, you can obtain amplitude and phase from your re,im complex output: amplitude = sqrt (re^2 + im*2) phase = arctan (im / re) which tends to be a bit more physically meaningful than the complex data. Cheers, Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 26 16:31:11 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:31:11 -0400 Subject: Have you ever wanted to make a movie? In-Reply-To: <408ae1640711251053g54ae72bbq9a8874685dfae749-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <408ae1640711251053g54ae72bbq9a8874685dfae749@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50632DCF.8060105@ve3syb.ca> On 07-11-25 01:53 PM, Interlug Lists wrote: > Have you ever wanted to create a movie? Then you should have a look at this: > > Open Movie Editor is designed to be a simple video editor There is LiVES, Kino, Cinelerra, kdenlive, and then there is (or soon will be) Lightworks. Go to http://www.lwks.com/ for information about Lightworks. It is currently available for Windows. They are about to release it as Open Source which will include a version for Linux. Information about the Open Source version is at http://www.editshare.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66&Itemid=98 Lightworks is no mickey mouse program. Its been used to edit major motion pictures. I don't generally need anything that fancy but it would be nice to have an Open Source alternative to Pinnacle Studio (a Windows only program) for when I need to do a bit of video editing. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 27 03:06:25 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 23:06:25 -0400 Subject: [OT] Fourier analysis question using Gnumeric In-Reply-To: <20120926052016.GA14163-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120926051043.GA10020@waltdnes.org> <20120926052016.GA14163@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120927030625.GA12097@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 01:20:16AM -0400, William Park wrote > What you do want at the end? Real signal is time-based, so frequency > spectrum is just the mean, not the end. I'm interested in seeing if there are any repeating cycles in the data. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 27 03:08:55 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 23:08:55 -0400 Subject: [OT] Fourier analysis question using Gnumeric In-Reply-To: References: <20120926051043.GA10020@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120927030855.GB12097@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 08:26:30AM -0400, Mike wrote > Second, you can obtain amplitude and phase from your re,im complex output: > amplitude = sqrt (re^2 + im*2) > phase = arctan (im / re) > which tends to be a bit more physically meaningful than the complex data. as I mentioned in my reply to William, I'm looking for periodicities or cycles in the data. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 27 13:59:06 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 09:59:06 -0400 Subject: [OT] Fourier analysis question using Gnumeric In-Reply-To: <20120927030625.GA12097-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120926051043.GA10020@waltdnes.org> <20120926052016.GA14163@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120927030625.GA12097@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120927135905.GA32592@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:06:25PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 01:20:16AM -0400, William Park wrote > > > What you do want at the end? Real signal is time-based, so frequency > > spectrum is just the mean, not the end. > > I'm interested in seeing if there are any repeating cycles in the > data. Then, what you want is "correlaton", more exactly "auto-correlation" since I'm assuming you have only one signal. If there were repeating signal with a lag time, then you'll see a "spike" at that lag time in auto-correlation. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 27 14:29:22 2012 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:29:22 +0400 Subject: [OT] Fourier analysis question using Gnumeric In-Reply-To: <20120927135905.GA32592-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120926051043.GA10020@waltdnes.org> <20120926052016.GA14163@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120927030625.GA12097@waltdnes.org> <20120927135905.GA32592@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <506462C2.703@gmail.com> On 09/27/2012 05:59 PM, William Park wrote: > On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:06:25PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 01:20:16AM -0400, William Park wrote >> >>> What you do want at the end? Real signal is time-based, so frequency >>> spectrum is just the mean, not the end. >> I'm interested in seeing if there are any repeating cycles in the >> data. > I would not use gnumeric in the first place. It should have, I guess, an option to export data to a text file? Than you are free to use other software. There is a lot of that around that can do even complex calculations. A simple example is to use Perl with Math::FFT . There is Octave (free, like Matlab), SciLab, etc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 27 16:25:28 2012 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 20:25:28 +0400 Subject: how to have /dev/audio on ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <505B62F9.7030106@gmail.com> <505C85AD.9010008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50647DF8.7060706@gmail.com> There is a simple solution to this particular problem, on Ubuntu. One can install siggen package and.. thats it (this is the one I actually wanted to use). It will create /dev/audio and such as well. When siggen is compiled from source and installed, it will not do that, hence it must have been modified by Ubuntu team for that purpose. zb. On 09/25/2012 09:43 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: > Sound has traditionally been one of the more confusing issues in > setting up linux. I would have sent this earlier but I don't use > pulseaudio at home. Here's how it is set up on the computer I'm at > today. Newer hardware and running Fedora 17 3.3.4-5.fc17.i686. > > # which pulseaudio > /bin/pulseaudio > > In the following "by-id" and "by-path" are directories which contain > symlink connections to the hardware links in their parent /dev/snd > directory; > > # ls -la /dev/snd > total 0 > drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 480 Sep 23 16:17 . > drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4060 Sep 24 11:23 .. > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 60 Sep 23 16:17 by-id > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 100 Sep 23 16:17 by-path > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 8 Sep 23 16:17 controlC0 > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 17 Sep 23 16:17 controlC1 > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 19 Sep 23 16:17 controlC2 > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 7 Sep 23 16:17 hwC0D2 > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 16 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D0 > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 15 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D1 > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 14 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D2 > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 13 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D3 > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 6 Sep 25 10:20 pcmC0D0c > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 5 Sep 25 10:15 pcmC0D0p > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 4 Sep 25 08:43 pcmC0D1c > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 3 Sep 25 08:43 pcmC0D1p > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 2 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC0D2c > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 12 Sep 25 08:43 pcmC1D3p > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 11 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC1D7p > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 10 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC1D8p > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 9 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC1D9p > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 18 Sep 25 10:20 pcmC2D0c > crw-rw---- 1 root audio 116, 1 Sep 23 16:17 seq > crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 33 Sep 23 16:17 timer > > controlC0, C1 and C2 are the three cards detected by the os. > In this case cat /proc/asound/cards - shows C0 is the onboard sound > card, C1 is the Tv tuner and C2 is the mic on the USB camera. > > # cat /proc/asound/cards > 0 [Intel ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel > HDA Intel at 0xfbff4000 irq 42 > 1 [NVidia ]: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia > HDA NVidia at 0xfaffc000 irq 17 > 2 [USB20Camera ]: USB-Audio - USB2.0_Camera > PixArt Imaging Inc. USB2.0_Camera at usb-0000:00:1a > > The other detected bits of hardware in /dev/snd are: the several > hwCoD* which link the four HDMI sound output channels of the Tv tuner > card and the primary sound card's third subsystem device (pcmC0D2c) > for HDMI input. The pcmC0D0* are standard computer audio capture and > playback devices. (mic, line in, line out, etc) The ones ending with > "c" are capture and the ones ending in "p" are playback. C0 = three > input and two output channels C1 = four output channels C2 = one > output channel. Historically the joy and the sorrow of setting up a > sound system under linux has been linking a sound source to an output > sink. > > It is sometimes desirable to access the sound hardware directly from a > command line. This following would use ALSA (arecord) to capture the > audio from an analogue tv-card by piping that signal to the first > subsystem of the second audio card (hw: 1,0), at an appropriate > playback, quality in Hertz (-r 32000) and in stereo over two channels > (-c 2), further this command defines the signal is appropriate for a > Sound Blaster type card (-f S16_LE). > > tvtime | arecord -D hw:1,0 -r 32000 -c 2 -f S16_LE | aplay > > This machine using arecord with the above string would try to link the > first subsystem on the second card to a default output > sink [controlC0:pcmC0D0p], and not work because on the other machine > another sound device was enumerated before the primary sound card. > (udev burp) This machine would use hw:0,0 if it had to be done this > way. > > This shell snippet was for one of those tv cards which had an external > 1/8in pin connector to connect the sound output from the tv card to > the line in of the sound card, so sound would work for Windows. I > could never get that hardware configuration to work in linux. So we > grabbed the signal from the bus in a more traditional way. > > Your solution may be as simple as configuring siggen to use the > directory /dev/snd instead of /dev/audio. (assuming Ubuntu puts stuff > in /dev/snd) If your system is set up with OSS, these symlinks might > be placed in /dev/pcm. > > If you find the directory holding these hardware links you could try > symlinking that directory to /dev/audio > > As root #ln -s /dev/audio > - might work and siggen will figure out which sink is where. > > I know this probably isn't any clearer than anything else you've read > on setting up sound but don't be afraid of breaking software, fixing > it again is half the fun :-) > > Russell > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> I remain confused. But I want to thank for responses, Russell and Mel. >> >> It seems that if I do not want to risk damaging the existing sound system I >> should not play too deep with what is there already. >> >> Fortunately, I have another box with Centos, and /dev/audio is still there. >> >> zb. >> >> On 09/21/2012 12:59 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: >>> Ubuntu did not do a very good job of integrating pulseaudio. It's got >>> a lot of features but demands complete control over the sound hardware >>> and it looks like the Ubuntu folks rolled it out too quickly. >>> >>> If your hardware is older it might be better to go back to ALSA/OSS. I >>> haven't seen many problems with pulseaudio in newer equipment with >>> newer installs. >>> >>> I think ALSA still present in Ubuntu >>> >>> On the command line >>> $speaker-test (plays white noise) >>> $aplay - l (lists playback devices) >>> $arecord -l (lists record devices) >>> >>> $alsamixer (make sure PCM volume is not muted.) >>> >>> or $pavucontrol (under pulse for the same reason.) >>> >>> This site may be helpful. >>> >>> http://www.hecticgeek.com/2012/01/how-to-remove-pulseaudio-use-alsa-ubuntu-linux/ >>> >>> Hope this helps >>> Russell >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Zbigniew Koziol >>> wrote: >>>> I am so much confused by reading web, and I swear I never understood how >>>> sound works (except of the times of DOS). >>>> >>>> My program reports: >>>> >>>> [siggen] No such file or directory : /dev/audio >>>> >>>> "siggen" is the name of the program I want to use, but the error message, >>>> I >>>> guess, is not related to the program itself. >>>> >>>> So, how can I make siggen not reporting that silly error message but just >>>> working right away? >>>> >>>> My Ubuntu version is one of the latest ones. >>>> >>>> zb. >>>> http://nanolab.gu-unpk.ru/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 27 16:59:47 2012 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 09:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT] Fourier analysis question using Gnumeric In-Reply-To: <20120927135905.GA32592-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120927135905.GA32592@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1348765187.38528.YahooMailClassic@web161901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> That is right. Fourier series assumes that any waveform (or any time series) can be represented by a series of pure sine and cosine waves of different amplitude. It does not matter whether the wave form is periodic, semi-periodic or just one spike. EK --- On Thu, 9/27/12, William Park wrote: From: William Park Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [OT] Fourier analysis question using Gnumeric To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Received: Thursday, September 27, 2012, 9:59 AM On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:06:25PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 01:20:16AM -0400, William Park wrote > > > What you do want at the end?? Real signal is time-based, so frequency > > spectrum is just the mean, not the end.? > >???I'm interested in seeing if there are any repeating cycles in the > data. Then, what you want is "correlaton", more exactly "auto-correlation" since I'm assuming you have only one signal.? If there were repeating signal with a lag time, then you'll see a "spike" at that lag time in auto-correlation. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 27 19:21:45 2012 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 15:21:45 -0400 Subject: just got a call from some guy trying to tell me I had a virus Message-ID: 647 288 1790 name comes up as V09281248080123 He hung up when I didn't have a windows start key ! Dave Cramer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 27 19:23:00 2012 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 15:23:00 -0400 Subject: So anyone else irritated by the bell touch tone service fee Message-ID: Just looked at this again. I've been paying 2.80 /mth for touch tone service. I wonder if I refuse this service will my phone stop operating ? Looks like a class action suit to me Dave Cramer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 27 19:34:00 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 15:34:00 -0400 Subject: just got a call from some guy trying to tell me I had a virus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > 647 288 1790 name comes up as V09281248080123 > > He hung up when I didn't have a windows start key ! > > Dave Cramer I play along with these @#$% for as long as I have the stomach for it. I figure that as long as I have them on the phone they can not be successfully scamming some clueless idiot :-) . Let's face it 99%+ of spam e-mail and these scam phone calls are aimed at making money. If we can make impossible to make a profit then we will, very largely, be rid of these pests. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 27 22:29:55 2012 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:29:55 -0400 Subject: So anyone else irritated by the bell touch tone service fee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120927222955.GA24855@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 03:23:00PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >I've been paying 2.80 /mth for touch tone service. I wonder if I >refuse this service will my phone stop operating ? Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=171FzZWF2Gw -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 28 01:37:26 2012 From: erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 21:37:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Multiple Dell PowerEdge 1850s and 2850s for sale - $ negotiable In-Reply-To: <5060A23F.3080908-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <50605E23.8060107@uberflip.com> <5060A23F.3080908@uberflip.com> Message-ID: <1348796246.027531280@apps.rackspace.com> Price is now negotiable as we're looking to clear out space at the colo soon for new gear. Please don't be afraid to send in your low offers :) Thanks -----Original Message----- From: "Erik Levinson" Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 2:11pm To: tlug at ss.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Multiple Dell PowerEdge 1850s and 2850s for sale - $200 > > May be the output of dmidecode may provide the model number? You able > to post that Erik? >> 1850: Handle 0x0400, DMI type 4, 35 bytes Processor Information Socket Designation: PROC_1 Type: Central Processor Family: Xeon Manufacturer: Intel ID: 43 0F 00 00 FF FB EB BF Signature: Type 0, Family 15, Model 4, Stepping 3 Flags: FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip) VME (Virtual mode extension) DE (Debugging extension) PSE (Page size extension) TSC (Time stamp counter) MSR (Model specific registers) PAE (Physical address extension) MCE (Machine check exception) CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported) APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported) SEP (Fast system call) MTRR (Memory type range registers) PGE (Page global enable) MCA (Machine check architecture) CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported) PAT (Page attribute table) PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension) CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported) DS (Debug store) ACPI (ACPI supported) MMX (MMX technology supported) FXSR (Fast floating-point save and restore) SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions) SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2) SS (Self-snoop) HTT (Hyper-threading technology) TM (Thermal monitor supported) PBE (Pending break enabled) Version: Not Specified Voltage: 1.4 V External Clock: 800 MHz Max Speed: 3600 MHz Current Speed: 3400 MHz Status: Populated, Enabled Upgrade: ZIF Socket L1 Cache Handle: 0x0700 L2 Cache Handle: 0x0701 L3 Cache Handle: 0x0702 Serial Number: Not Specified Asset Tag: Not Specified Part Number: Not Specified Handle 0x0401, DMI type 4, 35 bytes Processor Information Socket Designation: PROC_2 Type: Central Processor Family: Xeon Manufacturer: Intel ID: 43 0F 00 00 FF FB EB BF Signature: Type 0, Family 15, Model 4, Stepping 3 Flags: FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip) VME (Virtual mode extension) DE (Debugging extension) PSE (Page size extension) TSC (Time stamp counter) MSR (Model specific registers) PAE (Physical address extension) MCE (Machine check exception) CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported) APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported) SEP (Fast system call) MTRR (Memory type range registers) PGE (Page global enable) MCA (Machine check architecture) CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported) PAT (Page attribute table) PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension) CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported) DS (Debug store) ACPI (ACPI supported) MMX (MMX technology supported) FXSR (Fast floating-point save and restore) SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions) SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2) SS (Self-snoop) HTT (Hyper-threading technology) TM (Thermal monitor supported) PBE (Pending break enabled) Version: Not Specified Voltage: 1.4 V External Clock: 800 MHz Max Speed: 3600 MHz Current Speed: 3400 MHz Status: Populated, Idle Upgrade: ZIF Socket L1 Cache Handle: 0x0703 L2 Cache Handle: 0x0704 L3 Cache Handle: 0x0705 Serial Number: Not Specified Asset Tag: Not Specified Part Number: Not Specified And 2850: Handle 0x0400, DMI type 4, 40 bytes. Processor Information Socket Designation: PROC_1 Type: Central Processor Family: Xeon Manufacturer: Intel ID: 43 0F 00 00 FF FB EB BF Signature: Type 0, Family 15, Model 4, Stepping 3 Flags: FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip) VME (Virtual mode extension) DE (Debugging extension) PSE (Page size extension) TSC (Time stamp counter) MSR (Model specific registers) PAE (Physical address extension) MCE (Machine check exception) CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported) APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported) SEP (Fast system call) MTRR (Memory type range registers) PGE (Page global enable) MCA (Machine check architecture) CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported) PAT (Page attribute table) PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension) CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported) DS (Debug store) ACPI (ACPI supported) MMX (MMX technology supported) FXSR (Fast floating-point save and restore) SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions) SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2) SS (Self-snoop) HTT (Hyper-threading technology) TM (Thermal monitor supported) PBE (Pending break enabled) Version: Not Specified Voltage: 1.4 V External Clock: 800 MHz Max Speed: 3600 MHz Current Speed: 3200 MHz Status: Populated, Enabled Upgrade: ZIF Socket L1 Cache Handle: 0x0700 L2 Cache Handle: 0x0701 L3 Cache Handle: 0x0702 Serial Number: Not Specified Asset Tag: Not Specified Part Number: Not Specified Handle 0x0401, DMI type 4, 40 bytes. Processor Information Socket Designation: PROC_2 Type: Central Processor Family: Xeon Manufacturer: Intel ID: 43 0F 00 00 FF FB EB BF Signature: Type 0, Family 15, Model 4, Stepping 3 Flags: FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip) VME (Virtual mode extension) DE (Debugging extension) PSE (Page size extension) TSC (Time stamp counter) MSR (Model specific registers) PAE (Physical address extension) MCE (Machine check exception) CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported) APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported) SEP (Fast system call) MTRR (Memory type range registers) PGE (Page global enable) MCA (Machine check architecture) CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported) PAT (Page attribute table) PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension) CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported) DS (Debug store) ACPI (ACPI supported) MMX (MMX technology supported) FXSR (Fast floating-point save and restore) SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions) SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2) SS (Self-snoop) HTT (Hyper-threading technology) TM (Thermal monitor supported) PBE (Pending break enabled) Version: Not Specified Voltage: 1.4 V External Clock: 800 MHz Max Speed: 3600 MHz Current Speed: 3200 MHz Status: Populated, Idle Upgrade: ZIF Socket L1 Cache Handle: 0x0703 L2 Cache Handle: 0x0704 L3 Cache Handle: 0x0705 Serial Number: Not Specified Asset Tag: Not Specified Part Number: Not Specified -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 28 01:40:19 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 21:40:19 -0400 Subject: So anyone else irritated by the bell touch tone service fee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120928014018.GA26832@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 03:23:00PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote > Just looked at this again. > > I've been paying 2.80 /mth for touch tone service. I wonder if I > refuse this service will my phone stop operating ? A few notes... 1) You'll need a pulse dial phone 2) You won't be able to navigate telephone menus 3) Many years ago when Sympatico was the only choice, I subscribed, but ADSL wouldn't work, until my grandfathered pulse line was set to touch tone. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 28 11:36:17 2012 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 07:36:17 -0400 Subject: So anyone else irritated by the bell touch tone service fee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50658BB1.9060205@gmail.com> On 12-09-27 3:23 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > Just looked at this again. > > I've been paying 2.80 /mth for touch tone service. I wonder if I > refuse this service will my phone stop operating ? > > Looks like a class action suit to me They've been doing this for at least 10 years, maybe 15, maybe more. Bell had limits as to how much they could increase the price of their residential phone service, then they started to charge for this as an "extra"*. My father never made the switch to touch-tone and refuses. They used to call and harass him about it. The line at their address has been open since 1980. I don't think you can get a new line without touchtone... it's clearly a cash grab. If you can somehow get it deactivated, you can use a tone-pulse switch on a phone to dial, then switch back to use touch-tones. It's not a big deal. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 28 11:38:05 2012 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 07:38:05 -0400 Subject: So anyone else irritated by the bell touch tone service fee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120928113805.GN24789@adb.ca> Dave Cramer wrote: > I've been paying 2.80 /mth for touch tone service. I wonder if I > refuse this service will my phone stop operating ? Years and years ago I was in charge of a bunch of modem connections across the city, and figured we could save some bucks by not ordering touch-tone; I could program a modem to ATDP with the best of them. And anyway the links were nailed up and didn't spend a lot of time dialing. Some years later we got a call from Bell: it turned out they were winding up rotary-phone service, and could we please upgrade? I'm given to understand that modern equipment may not even understand pulse-dialing anymore, and that the former touch-tone extra became a mandatory part of basic service. It wouldn't surprise me if it's still listed separately and not rolled into the base tariff due to bureaucratic inertia. (Back when touch-tone first rolled out, the electromechanical gear to deal with it would have cost the telcos some *serious* coin, hence the surcharge.) -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 28 12:05:21 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 08:05:21 -0400 Subject: So anyone else irritated by the bell touch tone service fee In-Reply-To: <50658BB1.9060205-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50658BB1.9060205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50659281.7060507@rogers.com> Mike Kallies wrote: > They've been doing this for at least 10 years, maybe 15, maybe more. > Bell had limits as to how much they could increase the price of their > residential phone service, then they started to charge for this as an > "extra"*. > They've been doing it since the mid '60s, when TT was introduced. Back then, it was a premium service with a separate charge. Even though you can no longer order a pulse dial line, they still have that charge. My home phone is with Rogers and there is no TT charge. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 28 18:32:40 2012 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:32:40 -0400 Subject: Adobe Connect AddIn for Linux Message-ID: <20120928183240.GJ23584@vex.net> Has anyone here ever gotten this to work? I've installed the flash player and the connectaddin onto stock Ubuntu 10.04 environments and when I try to share my screen in a meeting it claims that the add-in is not installed even though it is. I've gotten the Mac version running against the server so it isn't a permissions problem there. -sgh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 28 19:56:24 2012 From: jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jarl Stefansson) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:56:24 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] Looking for a Systems Administrator Message-ID: If anyone here is looking for a job the company I work for is looking to hire an extra sysadmin into our group. TELoIP makes software for routers and networking devices, we specialize in aggregating diverse links (DSL/Cable/T1/etc) and providing the aggregated bandwidth and redundancy. Our GTA office is located in Mississauga, in addition to licensing our technology to partners we also operate our own infrastructure at 7 datacenters across North America. Candidates need to have strong Linux/Unix skills, excellent networking skills (BGP, VLAN, LACP/LAG) and VMWare(VCenter) experience. More information about TELoIP can be found at http://www.teloip.com If you are interested you can send me your resume and I will forward it to our head of operations. -- Regards, Jarl Stefansson jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 29 17:07:38 2012 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 13:07:38 -0400 Subject: how to have /dev/audio on ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <50647DF8.7060706-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <505B62F9.7030106@gmail.com> <505C85AD.9010008@gmail.com> <50647DF8.7060706@gmail.com> Message-ID: Try siggen output with [siggen whatever CLI sound gen options] | aplay -D plughw I don't think the Ubuntu team did anything but install pulseaudio as a wrapper around the sound system device nodes. I had a look at http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/jj/linux/siggen.html and found this "soundinfo A program to display some of the programming capabilities of the sound system support for the mixer device /dev/mixer and the DSP device /dev/dsp. Can easily be changed if the mixer and dsp devices are called something else. Also shows some of the ioctl calls in action :-).\ Further info on your kernel's sound card configuration is given by 'cat /dev/sndstat'." I had a look through the tarball from this website and in configh.h file, under user configurable stuff it looks like you can turn off DAC and output raw data to be captured in a file in WAV or other format. Further on in the configuration you can define your own sound system locations /* DAC_FILE is name of sound output device */ #define DAC_FILE "/dev/dsp" /* MIXER_FILE is name of mixer device */ #define MIXER_FILE "/dev/mixer" If you can't pipe the output through the system to the speakers using -D plughw, try making siggen from source with some changes. Assuming you sound device is found at /dev/snd and the binary mixer wrapper is somewhere like /dev/pulseaudio Making those changes specific to your systems default locations might get siggen working on Ubuntu for you. It looks to me like siggen was originally designed to use OSS. Where I am now on a debian install using ALSA ls -la /dev/snd shows as an example the character device crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 13 Sep 29 05:56 controlC0 cannot access OSS as indicated by the + sign I believe this indicates a non trivial access control list is in effect for this audio service, ie. no oss available. Russell On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > There is a simple solution to this particular problem, on Ubuntu. > > One can install siggen package and.. thats it (this is the one I actually > wanted to use). It will create /dev/audio and such as well. When siggen is > compiled from source and installed, it will not do that, hence it must have > been modified by Ubuntu team for that purpose. > > zb. > > > > On 09/25/2012 09:43 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >> >> Sound has traditionally been one of the more confusing issues in >> setting up linux. I would have sent this earlier but I don't use >> pulseaudio at home. Here's how it is set up on the computer I'm at >> today. Newer hardware and running Fedora 17 3.3.4-5.fc17.i686. >> >> # which pulseaudio >> /bin/pulseaudio >> >> In the following "by-id" and "by-path" are directories which contain >> symlink connections to the hardware links in their parent /dev/snd >> directory; >> >> # ls -la /dev/snd >> total 0 >> drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 480 Sep 23 16:17 . >> drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4060 Sep 24 11:23 .. >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 60 Sep 23 16:17 by-id >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 100 Sep 23 16:17 by-path >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 8 Sep 23 16:17 controlC0 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 17 Sep 23 16:17 controlC1 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 19 Sep 23 16:17 controlC2 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 7 Sep 23 16:17 hwC0D2 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 16 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D0 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 15 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D1 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 14 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D2 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 13 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D3 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 6 Sep 25 10:20 pcmC0D0c >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 5 Sep 25 10:15 pcmC0D0p >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 4 Sep 25 08:43 pcmC0D1c >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 3 Sep 25 08:43 pcmC0D1p >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 2 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC0D2c >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 12 Sep 25 08:43 pcmC1D3p >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 11 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC1D7p >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 10 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC1D8p >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 9 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC1D9p >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 18 Sep 25 10:20 pcmC2D0c >> crw-rw---- 1 root audio 116, 1 Sep 23 16:17 seq >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 33 Sep 23 16:17 timer >> >> controlC0, C1 and C2 are the three cards detected by the os. >> In this case cat /proc/asound/cards - shows C0 is the onboard sound >> card, C1 is the Tv tuner and C2 is the mic on the USB camera. >> >> # cat /proc/asound/cards >> 0 [Intel ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel >> HDA Intel at 0xfbff4000 irq 42 >> 1 [NVidia ]: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia >> HDA NVidia at 0xfaffc000 irq 17 >> 2 [USB20Camera ]: USB-Audio - USB2.0_Camera >> PixArt Imaging Inc. USB2.0_Camera at usb-0000:00:1a >> >> The other detected bits of hardware in /dev/snd are: the several >> hwCoD* which link the four HDMI sound output channels of the Tv tuner >> card and the primary sound card's third subsystem device (pcmC0D2c) >> for HDMI input. The pcmC0D0* are standard computer audio capture and >> playback devices. (mic, line in, line out, etc) The ones ending with >> "c" are capture and the ones ending in "p" are playback. C0 = three >> input and two output channels C1 = four output channels C2 = one >> output channel. Historically the joy and the sorrow of setting up a >> sound system under linux has been linking a sound source to an output >> sink. >> >> It is sometimes desirable to access the sound hardware directly from a >> command line. This following would use ALSA (arecord) to capture the >> audio from an analogue tv-card by piping that signal to the first >> subsystem of the second audio card (hw: 1,0), at an appropriate >> playback, quality in Hertz (-r 32000) and in stereo over two channels >> (-c 2), further this command defines the signal is appropriate for a >> Sound Blaster type card (-f S16_LE). >> >> tvtime | arecord -D hw:1,0 -r 32000 -c 2 -f S16_LE | aplay >> >> This machine using arecord with the above string would try to link the >> first subsystem on the second card to a default output >> sink [controlC0:pcmC0D0p], and not work because on the other machine >> another sound device was enumerated before the primary sound card. >> (udev burp) This machine would use hw:0,0 if it had to be done this >> way. >> >> This shell snippet was for one of those tv cards which had an external >> 1/8in pin connector to connect the sound output from the tv card to >> the line in of the sound card, so sound would work for Windows. I >> could never get that hardware configuration to work in linux. So we >> grabbed the signal from the bus in a more traditional way. >> >> Your solution may be as simple as configuring siggen to use the >> directory /dev/snd instead of /dev/audio. (assuming Ubuntu puts stuff >> in /dev/snd) If your system is set up with OSS, these symlinks might >> be placed in /dev/pcm. >> >> If you find the directory holding these hardware links you could try >> symlinking that directory to /dev/audio >> >> As root #ln -s /dev/audio >> - might work and siggen will figure out which sink is where. >> >> I know this probably isn't any clearer than anything else you've read >> on setting up sound but don't be afraid of breaking software, fixing >> it again is half the fun :-) >> >> Russell >> >> On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Zbigniew Koziol >> wrote: >>> >>> I remain confused. But I want to thank for responses, Russell and Mel. >>> >>> It seems that if I do not want to risk damaging the existing sound system >>> I >>> should not play too deep with what is there already. >>> >>> Fortunately, I have another box with Centos, and /dev/audio is still >>> there. >>> >>> zb. >>> >>> On 09/21/2012 12:59 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: >>>> >>>> Ubuntu did not do a very good job of integrating pulseaudio. It's got >>>> a lot of features but demands complete control over the sound hardware >>>> and it looks like the Ubuntu folks rolled it out too quickly. >>>> >>>> If your hardware is older it might be better to go back to ALSA/OSS. I >>>> haven't seen many problems with pulseaudio in newer equipment with >>>> newer installs. >>>> >>>> I think ALSA still present in Ubuntu >>>> >>>> On the command line >>>> $speaker-test (plays white noise) >>>> $aplay - l (lists playback devices) >>>> $arecord -l (lists record devices) >>>> >>>> $alsamixer (make sure PCM volume is not muted.) >>>> >>>> or $pavucontrol (under pulse for the same reason.) >>>> >>>> This site may be helpful. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.hecticgeek.com/2012/01/how-to-remove-pulseaudio-use-alsa-ubuntu-linux/ >>>> >>>> Hope this helps >>>> Russell >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Zbigniew Koziol >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I am so much confused by reading web, and I swear I never understood >>>>> how >>>>> sound works (except of the times of DOS). >>>>> >>>>> My program reports: >>>>> >>>>> [siggen] No such file or directory : /dev/audio >>>>> >>>>> "siggen" is the name of the program I want to use, but the error >>>>> message, >>>>> I >>>>> guess, is not related to the program itself. >>>>> >>>>> So, how can I make siggen not reporting that silly error message but >>>>> just >>>>> working right away? >>>>> >>>>> My Ubuntu version is one of the latest ones. >>>>> >>>>> zb. >>>>> http://nanolab.gu-unpk.ru/ >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 29 19:09:24 2012 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 15:09:24 -0400 Subject: how to have /dev/audio on ubuntu? Message-ID: Sorry I don't mean to top post but I just installed siggen_2.3.10-2_i386.deb on my own machine running Debian Squeeze - 2.6.32-5-686 #1 SMP Mon Jan 16 16:04:25 UTC 2012 i686 GNU/Linux and because I don't have oss I did as root apt-get install oss-compat as recommended on http://wiki.debian.org/SoundFAQ which created /dev/dsp /dev/dsp1 and /dev/audio /dev/audio1 It works for me. I got a 440hz tone from my speakers. From: Russell Reiter Date: Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: how to have /dev/audio on ubuntu? To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Try siggen output with [siggen whatever CLI sound gen options] | aplay -D plughw I don't think the Ubuntu team did anything but install pulseaudio as a wrapper around the sound system device nodes. I had a look at http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/jj/linux/siggen.html and found this "soundinfo A program to display some of the programming capabilities of the sound system support for the mixer device /dev/mixer and the DSP device /dev/dsp. Can easily be changed if the mixer and dsp devices are called something else. Also shows some of the ioctl calls in action :-).\ Further info on your kernel's sound card configuration is given by 'cat /dev/sndstat'." I had a look through the tarball from this website and in configh.h file, under user configurable stuff it looks like you can turn off DAC and output raw data to be captured in a file in WAV or other format. Further on in the configuration you can define your own sound system locations /* DAC_FILE is name of sound output device */ #define DAC_FILE "/dev/dsp" /* MIXER_FILE is name of mixer device */ #define MIXER_FILE "/dev/mixer" If you can't pipe the output through the system to the speakers using -D plughw, try making siggen from source with some changes. Assuming you sound device is found at /dev/snd and the binary mixer wrapper is somewhere like /dev/pulseaudio Making those changes specific to your systems default locations might get siggen working on Ubuntu for you. It looks to me like siggen was originally designed to use OSS. Where I am now on a debian install using ALSA ls -la /dev/snd shows as an example the character device crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 13 Sep 29 05:56 controlC0 cannot access OSS as indicated by the + sign I believe this indicates a non trivial access control list is in effect for this audio service, ie. no oss available. Russell On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > There is a simple solution to this particular problem, on Ubuntu. > > One can install siggen package and.. thats it (this is the one I actually > wanted to use). It will create /dev/audio and such as well. When siggen is > compiled from source and installed, it will not do that, hence it must have > been modified by Ubuntu team for that purpose. > > zb. > > > > On 09/25/2012 09:43 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >> >> Sound has traditionally been one of the more confusing issues in >> setting up linux. I would have sent this earlier but I don't use >> pulseaudio at home. Here's how it is set up on the computer I'm at >> today. Newer hardware and running Fedora 17 3.3.4-5.fc17.i686. >> >> # which pulseaudio >> /bin/pulseaudio >> >> In the following "by-id" and "by-path" are directories which contain >> symlink connections to the hardware links in their parent /dev/snd >> directory; >> >> # ls -la /dev/snd >> total 0 >> drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 480 Sep 23 16:17 . >> drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4060 Sep 24 11:23 .. >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 60 Sep 23 16:17 by-id >> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 100 Sep 23 16:17 by-path >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 8 Sep 23 16:17 controlC0 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 17 Sep 23 16:17 controlC1 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 19 Sep 23 16:17 controlC2 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 7 Sep 23 16:17 hwC0D2 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 16 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D0 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 15 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D1 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 14 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D2 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 13 Sep 23 16:17 hwC1D3 >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 6 Sep 25 10:20 pcmC0D0c >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 5 Sep 25 10:15 pcmC0D0p >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 4 Sep 25 08:43 pcmC0D1c >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 3 Sep 25 08:43 pcmC0D1p >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 2 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC0D2c >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 12 Sep 25 08:43 pcmC1D3p >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 11 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC1D7p >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 10 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC1D8p >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 9 Sep 23 16:17 pcmC1D9p >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 18 Sep 25 10:20 pcmC2D0c >> crw-rw---- 1 root audio 116, 1 Sep 23 16:17 seq >> crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 33 Sep 23 16:17 timer >> >> controlC0, C1 and C2 are the three cards detected by the os. >> In this case cat /proc/asound/cards - shows C0 is the onboard sound >> card, C1 is the Tv tuner and C2 is the mic on the USB camera. >> >> # cat /proc/asound/cards >> 0 [Intel ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel >> HDA Intel at 0xfbff4000 irq 42 >> 1 [NVidia ]: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia >> HDA NVidia at 0xfaffc000 irq 17 >> 2 [USB20Camera ]: USB-Audio - USB2.0_Camera >> PixArt Imaging Inc. USB2.0_Camera at usb-0000:00:1a >> >> The other detected bits of hardware in /dev/snd are: the several >> hwCoD* which link the four HDMI sound output channels of the Tv tuner >> card and the primary sound card's third subsystem device (pcmC0D2c) >> for HDMI input. The pcmC0D0* are standard computer audio capture and >> playback devices. (mic, line in, line out, etc) The ones ending with >> "c" are capture and the ones ending in "p" are playback. C0 = three >> input and two output channels C1 = four output channels C2 = one >> output channel. Historically the joy and the sorrow of setting up a >> sound system under linux has been linking a sound source to an output >> sink. >> >> It is sometimes desirable to access the sound hardware directly from a >> command line. This following would use ALSA (arecord) to capture the >> audio from an analogue tv-card by piping that signal to the first >> subsystem of the second audio card (hw: 1,0), at an appropriate >> playback, quality in Hertz (-r 32000) and in stereo over two channels >> (-c 2), further this command defines the signal is appropriate for a >> Sound Blaster type card (-f S16_LE). >> >> tvtime | arecord -D hw:1,0 -r 32000 -c 2 -f S16_LE | aplay >> >> This machine using arecord with the above string would try to link the >> first subsystem on the second card to a default output >> sink [controlC0:pcmC0D0p], and not work because on the other machine >> another sound device was enumerated before the primary sound card. >> (udev burp) This machine would use hw:0,0 if it had to be done this >> way. >> >> This shell snippet was for one of those tv cards which had an external >> 1/8in pin connector to connect the sound output from the tv card to >> the line in of the sound card, so sound would work for Windows. I >> could never get that hardware configuration to work in linux. So we >> grabbed the signal from the bus in a more traditional way. >> >> Your solution may be as simple as configuring siggen to use the >> directory /dev/snd instead of /dev/audio. (assuming Ubuntu puts stuff >> in /dev/snd) If your system is set up with OSS, these symlinks might >> be placed in /dev/pcm. >> >> If you find the directory holding these hardware links you could try >> symlinking that directory to /dev/audio >> >> As root #ln -s /dev/audio >> - might work and siggen will figure out which sink is where. >> >> I know this probably isn't any clearer than anything else you've read >> on setting up sound but don't be afraid of breaking software, fixing >> it again is half the fun :-) >> >> Russell >> >> On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Zbigniew Koziol >> wrote: >>> >>> I remain confused. But I want to thank for responses, Russell and Mel. >>> >>> It seems that if I do not want to risk damaging the existing sound system >>> I >>> should not play too deep with what is there already. >>> >>> Fortunately, I have another box with Centos, and /dev/audio is still >>> there. >>> >>> zb. >>> >>> On 09/21/2012 12:59 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: >>>> >>>> Ubuntu did not do a very good job of integrating pulseaudio. It's got >>>> a lot of features but demands complete control over the sound hardware >>>> and it looks like the Ubuntu folks rolled it out too quickly. >>>> >>>> If your hardware is older it might be better to go back to ALSA/OSS. I >>>> haven't seen many problems with pulseaudio in newer equipment with >>>> newer installs. >>>> >>>> I think ALSA still present in Ubuntu >>>> >>>> On the command line >>>> $speaker-test (plays white noise) >>>> $aplay - l (lists playback devices) >>>> $arecord -l (lists record devices) >>>> >>>> $alsamixer (make sure PCM volume is not muted.) >>>> >>>> or $pavucontrol (under pulse for the same reason.) >>>> >>>> This site may be helpful. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.hecticgeek.com/2012/01/how-to-remove-pulseaudio-use-alsa-ubuntu-linux/ >>>> >>>> Hope this helps >>>> Russell >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Zbigniew Koziol >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I am so much confused by reading web, and I swear I never understood >>>>> how >>>>> sound works (except of the times of DOS). >>>>> >>>>> My program reports: >>>>> >>>>> [siggen] No such file or directory : /dev/audio >>>>> >>>>> "siggen" is the name of the program I want to use, but the error >>>>> message, >>>>> I >>>>> guess, is not related to the program itself. >>>>> >>>>> So, how can I make siggen not reporting that silly error message but >>>>> just >>>>> working right away? >>>>> >>>>> My Ubuntu version is one of the latest ones. >>>>> >>>>> zb. >>>>> http://nanolab.gu-unpk.ru/ >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 30 16:13:31 2012 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 12:13:31 -0400 Subject: So anyone else irritated by the bell touch tone service fee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50686FAB.50003@gmail.com> On 27/09/12 15:23 , Dave Cramer wrote: > Just looked at this again. > > I've been paying 2.80 /mth for touch tone service. I wonder if I > refuse this service will my phone stop operating ? > > Looks like a class action suit to me When I had Bell we never paid for touch tone service. We had phones that were selectable for tone or pulse. My dial up modem was set to "auto-detect". One day the modem did something strange so I hung and dialled again. I discovered our line was now responding to tones. One time Bell called and asked if we wanted touch tone service, I said no without telling them that in effect we already had it. It was never disabled. I think the touch tone fee is an ad scam for Bell so that their Basic rate looks cheaper than what it is. We now use Primus (a Bell reseller) and it appears that touch tone service is included in the basic rate. Call Bell up and say "x company is offering this rate and it includes touch tone service. Would you be willing to give touch tone service for free?" Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 30 17:30:26 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 13:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: So anyone else irritated by the bell touch tone service fee In-Reply-To: <50686FAB.50003-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50686FAB.50003@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Ivan Avery Frey | Call Bell up and say "x company is offering this rate and it includes touch | tone service. Would you be willing to give touch tone service for free?" "regular" phone service has regulated tariffs. One of them is Touch Tone. As far as I know, they cannot give you a discounted rate on regular phone service. Bell does offer an unregulated home phone service. This is so they can get out from under regulation. I think that it is currently cheaper than the regulated service AND they can play discount games. I think that they call it something like "Home Phone". On the regulated service, they do not offer new customers pulse-only lines. Old customers are grandfathered, but they have over the years tried to trick those customers out of pulse-only. A few years ago Bell tried to eliminate the non-touch-tone service. All the grannies and I rose up and wrote the CRTC so Bell did not get its way. I switched to the unregulated service due to the enticements of a Bell campaign. In the process, they lied to me and I've ended up with touch-tone service. I don't really care enough to get outraged because the price went down (for a while?) anyway. Touch-tone is a little nicer (some of our handsets have awkward ways of switching between pulse and tone in the middle of a phone call, something frequently necessary). All phone companies have intricate charges and try to disguise them. It makes it very difficult to compare them. Even between their own product lines. If you want cheap, VoIP from a million different companies beats any of the old-line telecoms. Reliability (however you define it) probably remains better with the old companies. Why? - VoIP depends on your broadband connection. That is generally less reliable than old POTS. Then add to that the shifting sands of small providers. - Rogers uses IP over cable, but a private bit of the bandwidth that is reserved (I think). They have UPSes built into their installations. They even seem to come around with a generator when the power is disrupted to their on-pole distribution amplifiers. - Bell's (old-fashioned) system has enormouse lead-acid batteries in the Central Offices to carry through power failurse. Their systems have traditionally been engineered for reliability. - resellers of the above two systems ought to be just as reliable. On the other hand, it might be that the service process is poorly articulated (report to reseller who then passes it on to actual provider). I've certainly found that with third-party ISPs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists