Dave's messages [was: Re: Avoiding flag days (was: Views from an Red Hat -> Ubuntu -> Fedora migrator)]

D. Hugh Redelmeier hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
Mon Oct 22 21:23:03 UTC 2012


I got this message from David directly.  I did not get it through the tlug 
mail server, and I should have.

In fact, I have not received a single message from davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org or 
davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org through the tlug list.  But I have seen messages that 
were replies to his posts (September 11, September 24, October 12).

I also don't see them in the list archive 
  <http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/>

I've looked in my SPAM traps and find no evidence of at least the recent 
message.

Clearly SOME people are seeing Dave's posts.  What's up?

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| Message-ID: <5085B03C.5000008-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
| Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:44:44 -0400
| From: David Collier-Brown <davec-b-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
| Reply-To: davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org
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| CC: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
| Subject: Avoiding flag days (was: Views from an Red Hat -> Ubuntu -> Fedora
|  migrator)
| References: <50809775.5050909-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org>
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| On 10/22/2012 03:32 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
| 
| > I like the idea of a rolling release.  I'm not sure why that isn't the
| > norm.
| > 
| > Perhaps because certain changes have cascading effects, ones that
| > almost require a "flag day".
| > 
| > - "a major transition (perl 5.12 to 5.14 for example)"
| > 
| > - switching to NetworkManager "without a net" (pun intended).
| > 
| > - switching to systemd
| > 
| > Could all those be reasonably captured in accurate dependencies?  I'd hope 
| > so.  But capturing dependencies outside the distro (eg. in users own code 
| > or practice) isn't as easy.
| > 
| > Perhaps because users are not ready for continuous change if it has 
| > observable effects.  Maybe they like punctuated equilibrium 
| >   <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium>
| 
| 
| It isn't *quite* a flag day, but it it a genuinely difficult set of
| dependencies, with the risk of circularity.
| 
| Multics did a continuous rolling release, described in the Paul Stachour
| paper on versioning, and their and the ARPAnet's versioning did allow
| one to break out of circular dependencies.
| 
| But that's getting exceedingly off-topic (:-))
| 
| --dave
| 
| -- 
| David Collier-Brown,         | Always do right. This will gratify
| System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
| davecb-0XdUWXLQalXR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org           |                      -- Mark Twain
| (416) 223-8968
| 
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