From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov  1 02:20:14 2012
From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 22:20:14 -0400
Subject: FYC: MediaGoblin funding Campaign
In-Reply-To: <E1TThyX-0007qs-39-XCKyieeCORFg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <E1TThyX-0007qs-39@eggs.gnu.org>
Message-ID: <5091DC5E.7020607@ss.org>

### For Your Consideration ###

    GNU MediaGoblin is a free software media publishing system for
    images, video, and audio (and now 3D objects).

This is a project that has really caught my attention and reminded me 
why I feel open source is so important. It gives the freedoms to find 
way's in which to better help and serve each other and decentralizes 
power. This project in particular can put our media back in our hands 
(or the hands of service provider we can choose).

Take a look, see if supporting this project is worth while for you.

http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html


Below is an update about the campaign that was sent out to current 
supporters, which I am one.
--------------

Hey all!

Thought I'd give a mini-update.  We've had some exciting news
recently, and I really ought to update here in case you haven't seen!
So here goes.

  - First of all, we currently have campaign matching of ten thousand
    dollars!  That means that until we hit $25k, things are currently
    doubled.  Once we hit that, we jump from $25k->$35k... like magic!

    If you know someone who's been holding out on donating, tell them:
    now is the time to donate!
    http://mediagoblin.org/news/10k-campaign-matching.html

  - Also, we got a 3d model support media type added to MediaGoblin!
    http://mediagoblin.org/news/3d-support.html

    I could hardly be more excited about this!  This means that
    MediaGoblin is no longer just a YouTube, SoundCloud, Flickr
    alternative... it's moving into the space to providing a
    free-as-in-freedom alternative to Thingiverse!

    Also awesome: this feature was sponsored by Lulzbot... the same
    people who got the first ever FSF hardware endorsement!

 
https://www.fsf.org/news/hardware-certification-aleph-objects-lulzbot-3d-printer

    Yay for free-as-in-freedom projects teaming up! :)

  - YouTube and GitHub: both down in the same day!  We made a blogpost
    about it: "How to respond to a YouTube cat-astrophe? Decentralize
    the web!"

    http://mediagoblin.org/news/youtube-catastrophe.html

  - A number of us went to the Federated Social Web Summit!  We're
    planning out MediaGoblin's federated future.  You can read more on
    it here!

    http://mediagoblin.org/news/fsws-2012-wrap-up.html

  - Oh,  and here's  some fun!   MediaGoblin fanart  by Justin  Nichol!
    Does that totally rock or what?

    http://mediagoblin.org/news/mediagoblin-fanart-justin-nichol.html

Lastly, we could really use your help spreading the news!  We'd like
to meet the 10k matching grant by the end of the week at least!
That's about $3000 more to go!  Can you help out by spreading word
about the above?  Anything you can do to spread the word will help!

Speaking of which, thinking of adding a "support MediaGoblin" thing to
your site?  Laura Arjona made a banner... you can add it to your own
site like:

   <p style="text-align: center;">
     <a href="http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html"
        style="display: block;">
       <img 
src="http://mediagoblin.org/images/campaign/support_mediagoblin-blogbanner.png" 
alt="Support MediaGoblin!"
            style="box-shadow: 0 0 5px black; -webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 
5px black;" />
     </a><br />
     <a href="http://mediagoblin.org/">GNU MediaGoblin</a>
     is building a free as in freedom media
     publishing platform, and it needs your help!
     <a href="http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html">Donate!</a> :)
   </p>

Thanks for everything, all!  I know we can do this, because we have
you and your help backing us up! :)
  - Chris

--
Follow us on identi.ca at http://identi.ca/mediagoblin/
Contribute to GNU MediaGoblin at http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov  1 03:17:34 2012
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 23:17:34 -0400
Subject: Reducing Chinese software 'piracy' via open source?
In-Reply-To: <CAFNqd5XOHApJOqV9tmGW1nnq5NfbYOrTeybfBRdE5sEXakLEHQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAFNqd5XOHApJOqV9tmGW1nnq5NfbYOrTeybfBRdE5sEXakLEHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFNqd5Xy-nmcWH8HsrJDvjg88t=jAhMS-uZV0mbgd93KmynWfg@mail.gmail.com>

This is interesting; trying to diminish the problem of Chinese companies
disrespecting copyright by encouraging participation in open source
projects.

http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/76451.html

-- 
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov  2 06:20:21 2012
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 02:20:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: wiki for household
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707@redclaw.mimosa.com>

I'm thinking that it might be nice to have a wiki in our house.  I don't 
want one in the cloud for privacy reasons.

Christopher Browne suggested I try to pick TLUG's brains.

What might the wiki be used for?  Who knows until we live with it for a 
while.

- inventories, including photos

- documenting various kinds of projects (software, hardware, crafts, 
  culinary (eg. recipes)

- collections of documents like manuals, links to interesting things

- possibly replacing our paper filing system (I've got a great scanner for 
  this purpose; now I need to software architecture).  We have a lot of 
  paper.


Why a wiki?

- easy to add stuff

- not needing to shoehorn into a restrictive structure (eg. 
  conventional database)

- hope that the info is long lived: not in a proprietary format, supported 
  by a vibrant community, easy to migrate


Things we need:

- light weight (I don't want to become further burdened as a sysadmin)

- stable (change management isn't fun)

- strong community (to ensure long and healthy life)

- good support for history (revision control) and backups

- simplicity

- pleasant and easy support for pictures and other non-text

- easy & powerful markup that isn't intrusive (true of all wikis, but some 
  better than others)

- grow with our needs (whatever that might turn out to be)


Initial thoughts:

I looked at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software> as 
a starting place.  Open source + Linux were required, for a start.

- mediawiki looks big to me.  But it is probably a well-travelled road and 
  might not be that hard to install.  I'm slightly biased against a 
  data-base back-end.  Used by a lot of big sites, starting with 
  Wikipedia.

- DokuWiki.  Don't know enough.  Not ruled out.

- Gitit has some good qualities: git (or other distributed revision 
  control system) back end.  Coded in haskell (sexier than PHP).
  Supports LaTex.  Does it have staying power?

- ikiwiki.  Perl isn't my favourite (but then neither is PHP).  Uses
  git (or others) as backend.  Looks to be popular (good).

- MoinMoun.  Python sounds good to me. CamelCase links seem
  questionable to me (I'm used to mediawiki's square brackets).
  Flat-file backend seems good and simple.  Don't know how revision
  control is managed.

I don't really know how these handle my requirements.

Anyone have any thoughts about this?
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov  2 13:19:33 2012
From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 06:19:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wiki for household
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <1351862373.99118.YahooMailNeo@web120803.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I've installed and used?http://twiki.org/?for a couple years, from what I remember it was Perl and flat file based.

?
---------------------
Fernando Duran
http://www.fduran.com


----- Original Message -----
> From: D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
> To: Toronto Linux Users Group <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Friday, November 2, 2012 2:20:21 AM
> Subject: [TLUG]: wiki for household
> 
> I'm thinking that it might be nice to have a wiki in our house.? I don't 
> 
> want one in the cloud for privacy reasons.
> 
> Christopher Browne suggested I try to pick TLUG's brains.
> 
> What might the wiki be used for?? Who knows until we live with it for a 
> while.
> 
> - inventories, including photos
> 
> - documenting various kinds of projects (software, hardware, crafts, 
> ? culinary (eg. recipes)
> 
> - collections of documents like manuals, links to interesting things
> 
> - possibly replacing our paper filing system (I've got a great scanner for 
> ? this purpose; now I need to software architecture).? We have a lot of 
> ? paper.
> 
> 
> Why a wiki?
> 
> - easy to add stuff
> 
> - not needing to shoehorn into a restrictive structure (eg. 
> ? conventional database)
> 
> - hope that the info is long lived: not in a proprietary format, supported 
> ? by a vibrant community, easy to migrate
> 
> 
> Things we need:
> 
> - light weight (I don't want to become further burdened as a sysadmin)
> 
> - stable (change management isn't fun)
> 
> - strong community (to ensure long and healthy life)
> 
> - good support for history (revision control) and backups
> 
> - simplicity
> 
> - pleasant and easy support for pictures and other non-text
> 
> - easy & powerful markup that isn't intrusive (true of all wikis, but 
> some 
> ? better than others)
> 
> - grow with our needs (whatever that might turn out to be)
> 
> 
> Initial thoughts:
> 
> I looked at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software> as 
> a starting place.? Open source + Linux were required, for a start.
> 
> - mediawiki looks big to me.? But it is probably a well-travelled road and 
> ? might not be that hard to install.? I'm slightly biased against a 
> ? data-base back-end.? Used by a lot of big sites, starting with 
> ? Wikipedia.
> 
> - DokuWiki.? Don't know enough.? Not ruled out.
> 
> - Gitit has some good qualities: git (or other distributed revision 
> ? control system) back end.? Coded in haskell (sexier than PHP).
> ? Supports LaTex.? Does it have staying power?
> 
> - ikiwiki.? Perl isn't my favourite (but then neither is PHP).? Uses
> ? git (or others) as backend.? Looks to be popular (good).
> 
> - MoinMoun.? Python sounds good to me. CamelCase links seem
> ? questionable to me (I'm used to mediawiki's square brackets).
> ? Flat-file backend seems good and simple.? Don't know how revision
> ? control is managed.
> 
> I don't really know how these handle my requirements.
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts about this?
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov  2 13:30:49 2012
From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 06:30:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wiki for household
In-Reply-To: <1351862373.99118.YahooMailNeo-4IE30E7YIUj35Xbc4wGBzZOW+3bF1jUfVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707@redclaw.mimosa.com> <1351862373.99118.YahooMailNeo@web120803.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1351863049.4321.YahooMailNeo@web120803.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

http://twiki.org/


stupid Yahoo mail (in "plain text" mode!), there's no spaces in URIs

---------------------
Fernando Duran
http://www.fduran.com


----- Original Message -----
> From: Fernando Duran <liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
> To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Friday, November 2, 2012 9:19:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: wiki for household
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've installed and used?http://twiki.org/?for a couple years, from what I 
> remember it was Perl and flat file based.
> 
> ?
> ---------------------
> Fernando Duran
> http://www.fduran.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>>??From: D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
>>??To: Toronto Linux Users Group <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
>>??Cc: 
>>??Sent: Friday, November 2, 2012 2:20:21 AM
>>??Subject: [TLUG]: wiki for household
>> 
>>??I'm thinking that it might be nice to have a wiki in our house.? I 
> don't 
>> 
>>??want one in the cloud for privacy reasons.
>> 
>>??Christopher Browne suggested I try to pick TLUG's brains.
>> 
>>??What might the wiki be used for?? Who knows until we live with it for a 
>>??while.
>> 
>>??- inventories, including photos
>> 
>>??- documenting various kinds of projects (software, hardware, crafts, 
>>??? culinary (eg. recipes)
>> 
>>??- collections of documents like manuals, links to interesting things
>> 
>>??- possibly replacing our paper filing system (I've got a great scanner 
> for 
>>??? this purpose; now I need to software architecture).? We have a lot of 
>>??? paper.
>> 
>> 
>>??Why a wiki?
>> 
>>??- easy to add stuff
>> 
>>??- not needing to shoehorn into a restrictive structure (eg. 
>>??? conventional database)
>> 
>>??- hope that the info is long lived: not in a proprietary format, supported 
>>??? by a vibrant community, easy to migrate
>> 
>> 
>>??Things we need:
>> 
>>??- light weight (I don't want to become further burdened as a sysadmin)
>> 
>>??- stable (change management isn't fun)
>> 
>>??- strong community (to ensure long and healthy life)
>> 
>>??- good support for history (revision control) and backups
>> 
>>??- simplicity
>> 
>>??- pleasant and easy support for pictures and other non-text
>> 
>>??- easy & powerful markup that isn't intrusive (true of all wikis, 
> but 
>>??some 
>>??? better than others)
>> 
>>??- grow with our needs (whatever that might turn out to be)
>> 
>> 
>>??Initial thoughts:
>> 
>>??I looked at 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software> as 
>>??a starting place.? Open source + Linux were required, for a start.
>> 
>>??- mediawiki looks big to me.? But it is probably a well-travelled road and 
>>??? might not be that hard to install.? I'm slightly biased against a 
>>??? data-base back-end.? Used by a lot of big sites, starting with 
>>??? Wikipedia.
>> 
>>??- DokuWiki.? Don't know enough.? Not ruled out.
>> 
>>??- Gitit has some good qualities: git (or other distributed revision 
>>??? control system) back end.? Coded in haskell (sexier than PHP).
>>??? Supports LaTex.? Does it have staying power?
>> 
>>??- ikiwiki.? Perl isn't my favourite (but then neither is PHP).? Uses
>>??? git (or others) as backend.? Looks to be popular (good).
>> 
>>??- MoinMoun.? Python sounds good to me. CamelCase links seem
>>??? questionable to me (I'm used to mediawiki's square brackets).
>>??? Flat-file backend seems good and simple.? Don't know how revision
>>??? control is managed.
>> 
>>??I don't really know how these handle my requirements.
>> 
>>??Anyone have any thoughts about this?
>>??--
>>??The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>>??TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>??How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> ?
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov  2 13:36:51 2012
From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:36:51 -0300
Subject: wiki for household
In-Reply-To: <1351863049.4321.YahooMailNeo-4IE30E7YIUj35Xbc4wGBzZOW+3bF1jUfVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707@redclaw.mimosa.com>
	<1351862373.99118.YahooMailNeo@web120803.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<1351863049.4321.YahooMailNeo@web120803.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5qdexXB121WVk7hrOYu+TT_+4EfwP3csUC52MMo6fBQ0J_2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Have you ever heard about tikiwiki? It's a nice and simple to use/maintain
wiki.

http://www.tikiwiki.org

Many great futures, including all you described. ;]

===================================================

Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib

Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC
Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil
Celular: +55 085 87620983
Certifica??es: ITIL
V3<http://www.itil-officialsite.com/Qualifications/ITILV3QualificationLevels/ITILV3FoundationQualificationinITServiceManagement.aspx>
 | CSM <http://www.scrumalliance.org/> | LPI-C1 <http://www.lpi.org/> |
LPI-C2 <http://www.lpi.org/> | LPI-C3 <http://www.lpi.org/> | Novell
CLA<http://www.novell.com/training/certinfo/cla/>
Minha Pessoa: Blog <http://www.marcelocavalcante.net>
Projetos: Tux-CE <http://www.tux-ce.org> |
Archlinux-br<http://www.archlinux-br.org>
 | Chakra <http://www.chakra-project.org/> | KDE Brasil <http://br.kde.org>
 | TLUG <http://gtalug.org/wiki/Main_Page> |
PUG-CE<http://pug-ce.python.org.br/blog/>

===================================================


Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu.
N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta).
Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a
dissemina??o de v?rus e spam.



On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Fernando Duran <liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> http://twiki.org/
>
>
> stupid Yahoo mail (in "plain text" mode!), there's no spaces in URIs
>
> ---------------------
> Fernando Duran
> http://www.fduran.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Fernando Duran <liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
> > To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Friday, November 2, 2012 9:19:33 AM
> > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: wiki for household
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've installed and used http://twiki.org/ for a couple years, from what
> I
> > remember it was Perl and flat file based.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------
> > Fernando Duran
> > http://www.fduran.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>  From: D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
> >>  To: Toronto Linux Users Group <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> >>  Cc:
> >>  Sent: Friday, November 2, 2012 2:20:21 AM
> >>  Subject: [TLUG]: wiki for household
> >>
> >>  I'm thinking that it might be nice to have a wiki in our house.  I
> > don't
> >>
> >>  want one in the cloud for privacy reasons.
> >>
> >>  Christopher Browne suggested I try to pick TLUG's brains.
> >>
> >>  What might the wiki be used for?  Who knows until we live with it for a
> >>  while.
> >>
> >>  - inventories, including photos
> >>
> >>  - documenting various kinds of projects (software, hardware, crafts,
> >>    culinary (eg. recipes)
> >>
> >>  - collections of documents like manuals, links to interesting things
> >>
> >>  - possibly replacing our paper filing system (I've got a great scanner
> > for
> >>    this purpose; now I need to software architecture).  We have a lot of
> >>    paper.
> >>
> >>
> >>  Why a wiki?
> >>
> >>  - easy to add stuff
> >>
> >>  - not needing to shoehorn into a restrictive structure (eg.
> >>    conventional database)
> >>
> >>  - hope that the info is long lived: not in a proprietary format,
> supported
> >>    by a vibrant community, easy to migrate
> >>
> >>
> >>  Things we need:
> >>
> >>  - light weight (I don't want to become further burdened as a sysadmin)
> >>
> >>  - stable (change management isn't fun)
> >>
> >>  - strong community (to ensure long and healthy life)
> >>
> >>  - good support for history (revision control) and backups
> >>
> >>  - simplicity
> >>
> >>  - pleasant and easy support for pictures and other non-text
> >>
> >>  - easy & powerful markup that isn't intrusive (true of all wikis,
> > but
> >>  some
> >>    better than others)
> >>
> >>  - grow with our needs (whatever that might turn out to be)
> >>
> >>
> >>  Initial thoughts:
> >>
> >>  I looked at
> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software> as
> >>  a starting place.  Open source + Linux were required, for a start.
> >>
> >>  - mediawiki looks big to me.  But it is probably a well-travelled road
> and
> >>    might not be that hard to install.  I'm slightly biased against a
> >>    data-base back-end.  Used by a lot of big sites, starting with
> >>    Wikipedia.
> >>
> >>  - DokuWiki.  Don't know enough.  Not ruled out.
> >>
> >>  - Gitit has some good qualities: git (or other distributed revision
> >>    control system) back end.  Coded in haskell (sexier than PHP).
> >>    Supports LaTex.  Does it have staying power?
> >>
> >>  - ikiwiki.  Perl isn't my favourite (but then neither is PHP).  Uses
> >>    git (or others) as backend.  Looks to be popular (good).
> >>
> >>  - MoinMoun.  Python sounds good to me. CamelCase links seem
> >>    questionable to me (I'm used to mediawiki's square brackets).
> >>    Flat-file backend seems good and simple.  Don't know how revision
> >>    control is managed.
> >>
> >>  I don't really know how these handle my requirements.
> >>
> >>  Anyone have any thoughts about this?
> >>  --
> >>  The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> >>  TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> >>  How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> >>
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> >
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov  2 15:00:42 2012
From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 11:00:42 -0400
Subject: wiki for household
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <5093E01A.6010808@mylesbraithwaite.com>

I am currently using DokuWiki for my own personal wiki and love it.

* Page can be categorized by namespaces 
<https://www.dokuwiki.org/namespaces> (i.e. 
innovatory:art:claude-monet:1866-women-in-garden).
* The tags plugin is great to for more categorization: 
<https://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:tag>.
* You can also use the dokubookmark plugin to keep links: 
<https://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:dokubookmark>. It also provides a 
bookmarklet which makes it work just like Delicious or Pinboard.
* A database plugin if you want more relational data: 
<https://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:database>.
* There is even a Sync plugin (that can sync by namespace) so you could 
have an instance running on your server as while as your laptop.

MoinMoin does have reversion control that it does itself.

> D. Hugh Redelmeier <mailto:hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
> 2 November, 2012 2:20 AM
> I'm thinking that it might be nice to have a wiki in our house. I don't
> want one in the cloud for privacy reasons.
>
> Christopher Browne suggested I try to pick TLUG's brains.
>
> What might the wiki be used for? Who knows until we live with it for a
> while.
>
> - inventories, including photos
>
> - documenting various kinds of projects (software, hardware, crafts,
> culinary (eg. recipes)
>
> - collections of documents like manuals, links to interesting things
>
> - possibly replacing our paper filing system (I've got a great scanner 
> for
> this purpose; now I need to software architecture). We have a lot of
> paper.
>
>
> Why a wiki?
>
> - easy to add stuff
>
> - not needing to shoehorn into a restrictive structure (eg.
> conventional database)
>
> - hope that the info is long lived: not in a proprietary format, 
> supported
> by a vibrant community, easy to migrate
>
>
> Things we need:
>
> - light weight (I don't want to become further burdened as a sysadmin)
>
> - stable (change management isn't fun)
>
> - strong community (to ensure long and healthy life)
>
> - good support for history (revision control) and backups
>
> - simplicity
>
> - pleasant and easy support for pictures and other non-text
>
> - easy & powerful markup that isn't intrusive (true of all wikis, but 
> some
> better than others)
>
> - grow with our needs (whatever that might turn out to be)
>
>
> Initial thoughts:
>
> I looked at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software> as
> a starting place. Open source + Linux were required, for a start.
>
> - mediawiki looks big to me. But it is probably a well-travelled road and
> might not be that hard to install. I'm slightly biased against a
> data-base back-end. Used by a lot of big sites, starting with
> Wikipedia.
>
> - DokuWiki. Don't know enough. Not ruled out.
>
> - Gitit has some good qualities: git (or other distributed revision
> control system) back end. Coded in haskell (sexier than PHP).
> Supports LaTex. Does it have staying power?
>
> - ikiwiki. Perl isn't my favourite (but then neither is PHP). Uses
> git (or others) as backend. Looks to be popular (good).
>
> - MoinMoun. Python sounds good to me. CamelCase links seem
> questionable to me (I'm used to mediawiki's square brackets).
> Flat-file backend seems good and simple. Don't know how revision
> control is managed.
>
> I don't really know how these handle my requirements.
>
> Anyone have any thoughts about this?
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists

-- 
Myles Braithwaite
http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov  2 16:49:51 2012
From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 12:49:51 -0400
Subject: wiki for household
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <CAEx-jsPOkT2HA5Xp5tdiV7t+Z66XZWMC=5m5ykM6yisAQTYTWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 2:20 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I'm thinking that it might be nice to have a wiki in our house.  I don't
> want one in the cloud for privacy reasons.
>
<snip>

> Things we need:
>
> - light weight (I don't want to become further burdened as a sysadmin)
>
> - stable (change management isn't fun)
>
> - strong community (to ensure long and healthy life)
>
> - good support for history (revision control) and backups
>
> - simplicity
>
> - pleasant and easy support for pictures and other non-text
>
> - easy & powerful markup that isn't intrusive (true of all wikis, but some
>   better than others)
>
> - grow with our needs (whatever that might turn out to be)


I'll offer up my favorite <http://www.tiddlywiki.com/> for the following
reasons:

- Extremely light weight - it's only a single html file, fully
self-contained
- The communities (both developers & users) are extensive, active and
friendly. Have been for years.
- Matches everything else in your list of requirements, save one (I
believe):  putting a TiddlyWiki under revision control is possible (an HTML
document is just a plain text file after all) but can be a bit tricky.
- Server versions are also available, and a Node.js powered HTML5 version
(TW5) is well into development.

If you think you might want to give TiddlyWiki a try and you need a hand,
feel free to ping me off list.

Best,
-- 
  Scott Elcomb
  @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more

  Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
  http://code.google.com/p/atomos/

  Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
  http://www.pirateparty.ca/
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Sat Nov  3 09:42:25 2012
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 19:42:25 +1000 (EST)
Subject: wiki for household
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1211031923050.3994@pollux.opentrend.net>

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:

Here are my thoughts.

> Why a wiki?
>
> - easy to add stuff
>
> - not needing to shoehorn into a restrictive structure (eg.
>  conventional database)
>
> - hope that the info is long lived: not in a proprietary format, supported
>  by a vibrant community, easy to migrate

One more:

- Revision control that non-geeks can understand (for some wikis)

> Initial thoughts:
>
> I looked at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software> as
> a starting place.  Open source + Linux were required, for a start.

I've made extensive use of Mediawiki for personal and small business use.

> - mediawiki looks big to me.  But it is probably a well-travelled road and
>  might not be that hard to install.  I'm slightly biased against a

Installation on Debian is approximately 'aptitude install mediawiki' and 
entering some details on a webpage.

It has a huge numbers of plugins.  I suspect (without checking) that the 
number and variety of Mediawiki plugins dwarfs all other wikis.

>  data-base back-end.  Used by a lot of big sites, starting with
>  Wikipedia.

I'm happy for it to use an SQL backend.  I run mysqldump nightly from cron 
to backup the DB.

> - ikiwiki.  Perl isn't my favourite (but then neither is PHP).  Uses
>  git (or others) as backend.  Looks to be popular (good).

We use ikiwiki+git in SPI (http://www.spi-inc.org).  I'm not a huge fan of 
ikiwiki but everyone else seems to like it.  FWIW, I like git.

> - MoinMoun.  Python sounds good to me. CamelCase links seem
>  questionable to me (I'm used to mediawiki's square brackets).
>  Flat-file backend seems good and simple.  Don't know how revision
>  control is managed.

I've used camelCase automatic linking in twiki and didn't like it.  More 
recent twiki/fosswiki uses a Mediawiki like syntax I think.

This raises an important point though - familiarity with syntax.  Anyone 
familiar with Wikipedia editing can become productive on a local Mediawiki 
instance immediately.

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org		Linux counter ID #16440
IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode)
Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com
Director, Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/)
"Information is a gas"
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 02:53:49 2012
From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:53:49 -0500
Subject: arch in a vm?
Message-ID: <CAN_Dec_RK1RwVevNYC2nipZjWKWtCXv+sw6ieLrUMAbQj71fAA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

After years with Ubuntu, I'm getting the itch to try something else.  Arch
looks like fun but I don't have a spare machine right now to experiment on,
so I would like to install it in a virtual machine on one of my ubuntu
boxes (either my 12.10 laptop or the 12.04 desktop that runs our media
centre and family computer).

I haven't worked with VM's for a long while -- any suggestions as to which
solution is easiest & most practical?

Thanks much,
Matt
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From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 03:00:16 2012
From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 22:00:16 -0500
Subject: arch in a vm?
In-Reply-To: <CAN_Dec_RK1RwVevNYC2nipZjWKWtCXv+sw6ieLrUMAbQj71fAA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAN_Dec_RK1RwVevNYC2nipZjWKWtCXv+sw6ieLrUMAbQj71fAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABSLv-94zyApehGL37sSK2dVaeVz91Hj65vgKqfjF7FiP1QUXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 9:53 PM, Matt Price <moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> After years with Ubuntu, I'm getting the itch to try something else.  Arch
> looks like fun but I don't have a spare machine right now to experiment on,
> so I would like to install it in a virtual machine on one of my ubuntu
> boxes (either my 12.10 laptop or the 12.04 desktop that runs our media
> centre and family computer).
>
> I haven't worked with VM's for a long while -- any suggestions as to which
> solution is easiest & most practical?
>
> Thanks much,
> Matt
>
>
I've found Virtualbox (https://www.virtualbox.org/) to be more than
adequate for my VM needs.

-- 
Sadiq S
O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org
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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 03:03:14 2012
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 22:03:14 -0500
Subject: arch in a vm?
In-Reply-To: <CAN_Dec_RK1RwVevNYC2nipZjWKWtCXv+sw6ieLrUMAbQj71fAA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAN_Dec_RK1RwVevNYC2nipZjWKWtCXv+sw6ieLrUMAbQj71fAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE9rU+40uH6WDrfKsLBj_krRd11bHFFTKU-hhni00KcZyhvTCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Matt,
> I haven't worked with VM's for a long while -- any suggestions as to
which solution is easiest & most practical?
>
KVM, mainly because all the distribution have been pushing that as Linux
virtualization. Its far better supported

You can also try virtualbox from oracle. Very straight forward I would say
and alright for desktop testing.

> Thanks much,
> Matt
>
William
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From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 04:01:54 2012
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 23:01:54 -0500
Subject: Laptop resolution issue.
Message-ID: <1352088114.2411.25.camel@jimslaptop>

Wondering if anyone has any thoughts on a problem I am having with my
laptop. For some reason I can only chose the native resolution of
1440x900. I am using the nvidia driver 304.60 . It used to be that in
the Nvidia settings menu I could select a number of resolutions but now
only the one?? I am attaching my current xorg.conf file below in case
that is of any use. Thanks for any advice on this one.
Cheers,
Jim


# nvidia-xconfig: X configuration file generated by nvidia-xconfig
# nvidia-xconfig:  version 304.60
(buildmeister-sdptq72lN2aa1AGjCcsfwymRwvSYRhgbdGGVkPm64kWB+jHODAdFcQ at public.gmane.org)  Sun Oct 14
21:34:47 PDT 2012

# commented out by update-manager, HAL is now used and auto-detects
devices
# Keyboard settings are now read from /etc/default/console-setup
#Section "InputDevice"
#    # generated from default
#    Identifier     "Mouse0"
#    Driver         "mouse"
#    Option         "Protocol" "auto"
#    Option         "Device" "/dev/psaux"
#    Option         "Emulate3Buttons" "no"
#    Option         "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
#EndSection
# commented out by update-manager, HAL is now used and auto-detects
devices
# Keyboard settings are now read from /etc/default/console-setup
#Section "InputDevice"
#    # generated from default
#    Identifier     "Keyboard0"
#    Driver         "kbd"
#EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"

	# commented out by update-manager, HAL is now used and auto-detects
devices
	# Keyboard settings are now read from /etc/default/console-setup
	#    InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
	# commented out by update-manager, HAL is now used and auto-detects
devices
	# Keyboard settings are now read from /etc/default/console-setup
	#    InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
    Identifier     "Layout0"
    Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
    InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
    InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
EndSection

Section "Module"
    Load           "dbe"
    Load           "extmod"
    Load           "type1"
    Load           "freetype"
    Load           "glx"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"

    # generated from default
    Identifier     "Keyboard0"
    Driver         "keyboard"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"

    # generated from default
    Identifier     "Mouse0"
    Driver         "mouse"
    Option         "Protocol" "auto"
    Option         "Device" "/dev/psaux"
    Option         "Emulate3Buttons" "no"
    Option         "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
    Identifier     "Monitor0"
    VendorName     "Unknown"
    ModelName      "Unknown"
    HorizSync       28.0 - 33.0
    VertRefresh     43.0 - 72.0
    Option         "DPMS"
EndSection

Section "Device"
    Identifier     "Device0"
    Driver         "nvidia"
    VendorName     "NVIDIA Corporation"
EndSection

Section "Screen"

#    Option         "metamodes" "CRT: 1920x1080 +0+0"
#    Option         "TVStandard" "HD1080i"
	#------------1080i Group-----------------------------
    Identifier     "Screen0"
    Device         "Device0"
    Monitor        "Monitor0"
    DefaultDepth    24
    Option         "NoLogo" "True"
    SubSection     "Display"
        Depth       24
    EndSubSection
EndSection


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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 06:40:55 2012
From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 01:40:55 -0500
Subject: wiki for household
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <50975F77.1050107@ve3syb.ca>

On 12-11-02 02:20 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> I'm thinking that it might be nice to have a wiki in our house.

I have been using DokuWiki on my own website. It is easy to set up and does 
not require use of a database. I chose it because of its simple set up (it 
didn't require a database), and it was supposed to be better if you wanted 
to use it for documentation (which is one of the things I wanted to use it for).

There are lots of plugins available for DokuWiki to add extra features. One 
plugin will add blog type features while another will let you export pages 
to OpenOffice. An addon for LibreOffice will let you save files in DokuWiki 
format.

For dealing with pictures I use Gallery (http://gallery.menalto.com/). You 
can use Gallery to maintain the pictures and include links to the images in 
the Gallery in the wiki pages.

-- 
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/           |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172      | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
                                 | powerful!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite> |             --Chris Hardwick
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 06:52:16 2012
From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 01:52:16 -0500
Subject: Free CrossOver for a year (Tomorrow only)
In-Reply-To: <20121031182625.GB14557-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAEx-jsMsVYc2PWEmAPqPss-YuhTp92cY9y+cBt3nT6AF_btQWQ@mail.gmail.com> <20121030225632.GA13517@node1.opengeometry.net> <CAEx-jsNRD1BX0ABpBAdv2We3jsGVbrKNox3fmsJPMhOxbAAU=w@mail.gmail.com> <5090955A.2010506@ve3syb.ca> <20121031182625.GB14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <50976220.2010000@ve3syb.ca>

On 12-10-31 02:26 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:04:58PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote:
>> I have a few Windows programs I occasionally run in Linux using
>> Wine. One high end CAD package doesn't work any more in Wine due to
>> how they check the licensing key but it would be nice to run that
>> from Linux.
[snip]
> Worth a try.
>
> To some extent that may be part of why they are doing this.  It is lots
> of publicity in the press and such potentuially, and some people that
> try it may decide it is really useful to them.

It was worth a true but it didn't work. I could install and run version 2 of 
Rhino but when I tried to update the install to version 4 it couldn't find 
the previous version so I couldn't install the update. A new version of 
Crossover is supposed to come out soon so I will try again then to update to 
version 4.

My feeling was that this was a form of publicity and a way to increase their 
user base and maybe convert some of the free users in to paying customers later.
-- 
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/           |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172      | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
                                 | powerful!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite> |             --Chris Hardwick
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 08:29:36 2012
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 03:29:36 -0500
Subject: arch in a vm?
In-Reply-To: <CAN_Dec_RK1RwVevNYC2nipZjWKWtCXv+sw6ieLrUMAbQj71fAA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAN_Dec_RK1RwVevNYC2nipZjWKWtCXv+sw6ieLrUMAbQj71fAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121105082936.GA27405@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sun, Nov 04, 2012 at 09:53:49PM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> After years with Ubuntu, I'm getting the itch to try something else.  Arch
> looks like fun but I don't have a spare machine right now to experiment on,
> so I would like to install it in a virtual machine on one of my ubuntu
> boxes (either my 12.10 laptop or the 12.04 desktop that runs our media
> centre and family computer).
> 
> I haven't worked with VM's for a long while -- any suggestions as to which
> solution is easiest & most practical?
> 
> Thanks much,
> Matt

For test run, both VirtualBox and KVM are okay.  I started with
VirtualBox because it has better GUI and better mouse response.  Now,
I'm using KVM, because it can access raw harddisk, whereas VirtualBox is
limited to USB disk.
-- 
William
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 12:04:36 2012
From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 09:04:36 -0300
Subject: arch in a vm?
In-Reply-To: <20121105082936.GA27405-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAN_Dec_RK1RwVevNYC2nipZjWKWtCXv+sw6ieLrUMAbQj71fAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121105082936.GA27405@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <CAH5qdeye-vQDDN0NC3SeX3e8dLiSPotVHt-MKBTUyBZvPgaHYA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Matt,

As others said, you have these two great options (also others): VirtualBox
and KVM.

I think the point is not "which one is better", as you already said you
"haven't worked with VMs for a long while. I thinks that's the point.
VirtualBox has an GUI more friendly with an easier configuration template
and other stuff that will make you project easier.

Good look trying this great distro.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Official_Arch_Linux_Install_Guide

===================================================

Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib

Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC
Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil
Celular: +55 085 87620983
Certifica??es: ITIL
V3<http://www.itil-officialsite.com/Qualifications/ITILV3QualificationLevels/ITILV3FoundationQualificationinITServiceManagement.aspx>
 | CSM <http://www.scrumalliance.org/> | LPI-C1 <http://www.lpi.org/> |
LPI-C2 <http://www.lpi.org/> | LPI-C3 <http://www.lpi.org/> | Novell
CLA<http://www.novell.com/training/certinfo/cla/>
Minha Pessoa: Blog <http://www.marcelocavalcante.net>
Projetos: Tux-CE <http://www.tux-ce.org> |
Archlinux-br<http://www.archlinux-br.org>
 | Chakra <http://www.chakra-project.org/> | KDE Brasil <http://br.kde.org>
 | TLUG <http://gtalug.org/wiki/Main_Page> |
PUG-CE<http://pug-ce.python.org.br/blog/>

===================================================


Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu.
N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta).
Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a
dissemina??o de v?rus e spam.



On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 5:29 AM, William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 04, 2012 at 09:53:49PM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > After years with Ubuntu, I'm getting the itch to try something else.
>  Arch
> > looks like fun but I don't have a spare machine right now to experiment
> on,
> > so I would like to install it in a virtual machine on one of my ubuntu
> > boxes (either my 12.10 laptop or the 12.04 desktop that runs our media
> > centre and family computer).
> >
> > I haven't worked with VM's for a long while -- any suggestions as to
> which
> > solution is easiest & most practical?
> >
> > Thanks much,
> > Matt
>
> For test run, both VirtualBox and KVM are okay.  I started with
> VirtualBox because it has better GUI and better mouse response.  Now,
> I'm using KVM, because it can access raw harddisk, whereas VirtualBox is
> limited to USB disk.
> --
> William
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 12:42:06 2012
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:42:06 -0500
Subject: Laptop resolution issue.
In-Reply-To: <1352088114.2411.25.camel@jimslaptop>
References: <1352088114.2411.25.camel@jimslaptop>
Message-ID: <20121105124206.GA29724@waltdnes.org>

On Sun, Nov 04, 2012 at 11:01:54PM -0500, jim wrote
> Wondering if anyone has any thoughts on a problem I am having with my
> laptop. For some reason I can only chose the native resolution of
> 1440x900. I am using the nvidia driver 304.60 . It used to be that in
> the Nvidia settings menu I could select a number of resolutions but now
> only the one?? I am attaching my current xorg.conf file below in case
> that is of any use. Thanks for any advice on this one.
> Cheers,
> Jim

  The first, and easiest (if it works) solution is to temporarily rename
/etc/X11/xorg.conf and /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d to something different, and
see if it works.  If not, rename them back.

  A few other avenues to look at...
1) What is the output of the "xrandr" command?
2) Plow through the output of /var/log/Xorg.0.log and see if you can
   find any hints there.
3) If you change the default resolution in Xorg.conf (e.g. to 1024x768)
   will it work?
4) Have you upgraded your distro or Nvidia drivers recently?  I run
   Gentoo linux, and I have to rebuild the Nvidia drivers against the
   new kernel, each time I upgrade the kernel.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 14:49:06 2012
From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 09:49:06 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
Message-ID: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>

My mechanic is looking for someone interested in automotive electronics.
Shop does a lot of work on porsche, and other high end cars.

Reply to me directly if interested.

What colleges would have this kind of course ?

Dave Cramer
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 15:29:43 2012
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:29:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Laptop resolution issue.
In-Reply-To: <1352088114.2411.25.camel@jimslaptop>
References: <1352088114.2411.25.camel@jimslaptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211051009450.25998@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: jim <cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

| Wondering if anyone has any thoughts on a problem I am having with my
| laptop. For some reason I can only chose the native resolution of
| 1440x900.

LCDs have discrete pixels.  Using another resolution is usually really
ugly and often unsupported.

Could you explain the problem that you are trying to solve by changing
the resolution used?  There might be a better solution to the problem
than changing the resolution.

Things on screen too small to see?

- Tell X that you have a high DPI and it *should* scale everything.
  I've not tested this so it might not work in practice but it is a
  great theory.

- Alternatively, you can ask each thing (application or whatever) to
  use a bigger font.  A bit tedious.

- on my Fedora 17 Gnome desktop, under settings, there is "Universal",
  which I guess a new euphamism for what was called accessibility.
  Under the "Seeing" tab, you can bump Display: Text size.
  I don't know why that tab doesn't have something to change the
  DPI setting.  There is also a zoom feature but that isn't likely
  what you want.

Screen too slow updating (in a game, or playing a video, for example)?
I guess that could be a good reason.

Problem mirroring the display on another display with a different
resolution?  I don't have much experience with that kind of problem
and it seems that it gets tricky.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 15:50:39 2012
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:50:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: wiki for household
In-Reply-To: <50975F77.1050107-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211020150270.21707@redclaw.mimosa.com> <50975F77.1050107@ve3syb.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211051040150.25998@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: Kevin Cozens <kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org>

| For dealing with pictures I use Gallery (http://gallery.menalto.com/). You can
| use Gallery to maintain the pictures and include links to the images in the
| Gallery in the wiki pages.

I took a very quick look at gallery.  The official gallery site seems
to be distributed between gallery.menalto.com, codex.gallery2.org, and
sourceforge.  It also seems to have very low recent activity.

Any idea what's up with the project?

Gallery seems to be a bunch of .php stuff that you can install on your
own web server.  Am I right?  Oh wait, here's a good hint:
  <http://codex.gallery2.org/Gallery3:Requirements>
I lose:
  Browser: Flash is required for the simple file upload function (Add >
  Add Photos). 
I wonder why they did it that way?

This kind of thing might be useful.  Can you give us a kind of review?
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 16:59:59 2012
From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:59:59 -0500
Subject: Free CrossOver for a year (Tomorrow only)
In-Reply-To: <50976220.2010000-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAEx-jsMsVYc2PWEmAPqPss-YuhTp92cY9y+cBt3nT6AF_btQWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121030225632.GA13517@node1.opengeometry.net> <CAEx-jsNRD1BX0ABpBAdv2We3jsGVbrKNox3fmsJPMhOxbAAU=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <5090955A.2010506@ve3syb.ca> <20121031182625.GB14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50976220.2010000@ve3syb.ca>
Message-ID: <CAEx-jsMcDE6kC52bOrPcCSzHEb1V=Y0CFipDzODhZOg0pquO0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:52 AM, Kevin Cozens <kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On 12-10-31 02:26 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:04:58PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote:
>>
>>> I have a few Windows programs I occasionally run in Linux using
>>> Wine. One high end CAD package doesn't work any more in Wine due to
>>> how they check the licensing key but it would be nice to run that
>>> from Linux.
>>>
>> [snip]
>
>  Worth a try.
>>
>> To some extent that may be part of why they are doing this.  It is lots
>> of publicity in the press and such potentuially, and some people that
>> try it may decide it is really useful to them.
>>
>
> It was worth a true but it didn't work. I could install and run version 2
> of Rhino but when I tried to update the install to version 4 it couldn't
> find the previous version so I couldn't install the update. A new version
> of Crossover is supposed to come out soon so I will try again then to
> update to version 4.
>
> My feeling was that this was a form of publicity and a way to increase
> their user base and maybe convert some of the free users in to paying
> customers later.


That's almost certainly what this was - a marketing gimmick.  Despite the
fact I have little use for CrossOver, I actually signed up for the offer.
 I still have a few Windows-only apps (audio & game development tools) that
I play with from time to time; figured it wouldn't hurt to try them under
Linux when some free time comes available.

-- 
  Scott Elcomb
  @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more

  Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
  http://code.google.com/p/atomos/

  Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
  http://www.pirateparty.ca/
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From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 17:19:17 2012
From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 12:19:17 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Dave Cramer <davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> My mechanic is looking for someone interested in automotive electronics.
> Shop does a lot of work on porsche, and other high end cars.
>
> Reply to me directly if interested.
>
> What colleges would have this kind of course ?
>

This is a pretty lucrative area and something I've been thinking about
investigating for a few years.  My hands are full at the moment, but were I
available I'd be interested.

Mohawk College has some pretty extensive automotive courses.  I think this
one covers some of what you're looking for: <
http://www.mohawkcollege.ca/calendar/apprenticeships/autoservicetechni.html>

-- 
  Scott Elcomb
  @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more

  Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
  http://code.google.com/p/atomos/

  Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
  http://www.pirateparty.ca/
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From williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 17:39:20 2012
From: williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Weaver)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 12:39:20 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYksyioznRnhpzmtDHJ5pes8wqqPyhg8TCNVu9TP8hsiA=d_g@mail.gmail.com>

I used to work for pepboys (US car maintance chain) and did a little bit of
automotive electronics. Mostly basic electrical diagnostic and rerigging
wireing harnesses. For newer especially high end cars the electronics get
complex real fast and usually specialists were called in.

Is he looking for someone to ask questions to, or someone to call in for
specific work/ work for him? If he's trying to get trained himself it's
definately best to contact the dealer about training, especially on high
end car's like porsches. The price is outragious, but you have to pass it
on to the customer.

If he's looking for someone who already knows it to do work for him, I
can't help much as I have a pretty full plate and I'm not legally allowed
to work in Canada without getting a second work visa.

Good luck,

Will Weaver


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Scott Elcomb <psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Dave Cramer <davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> My mechanic is looking for someone interested in automotive electronics.
>> Shop does a lot of work on porsche, and other high end cars.
>>
>> Reply to me directly if interested.
>>
>> What colleges would have this kind of course ?
>>
>
> This is a pretty lucrative area and something I've been thinking about
> investigating for a few years.  My hands are full at the moment, but were I
> available I'd be interested.
>
> Mohawk College has some pretty extensive automotive courses.  I think this
> one covers some of what you're looking for: <
> http://www.mohawkcollege.ca/calendar/apprenticeships/autoservicetechni.html
> >
>
> --
>   Scott Elcomb
>   @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more
>
>   Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
>   http://code.google.com/p/atomos/
>
>   Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
>   http://www.pirateparty.ca/
>
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From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 17:43:44 2012
From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 12:43:44 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <CACYksyioznRnhpzmtDHJ5pes8wqqPyhg8TCNVu9TP8hsiA=d_g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com> <CACYksyioznRnhpzmtDHJ5pes8wqqPyhg8TCNVu9TP8hsiA=d_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADK3HHLxUUe3Dk7xNGa97R6xpWkO68SPU6Vi8+C2EMZ_UW9WMg@mail.gmail.com>

He is looking for someone to train to be a mechanic, Finding people who can
turn wrenches is easy. Finding people that understand electronics is more
difficult.

Dealers won't train independents to work on porsche.  Their money comes
from work that comes in the door.

Dave

Dave Cramer


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 12:39 PM, William Weaver <williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>wrote:

> I used to work for pepboys (US car maintance chain) and did a little bit
> of automotive electronics. Mostly basic electrical diagnostic and rerigging
> wireing harnesses. For newer especially high end cars the electronics get
> complex real fast and usually specialists were called in.
>
> Is he looking for someone to ask questions to, or someone to call in for
> specific work/ work for him? If he's trying to get trained himself it's
> definately best to contact the dealer about training, especially on high
> end car's like porsches. The price is outragious, but you have to pass it
> on to the customer.
>
> If he's looking for someone who already knows it to do work for him, I
> can't help much as I have a pretty full plate and I'm not legally allowed
> to work in Canada without getting a second work visa.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Will Weaver
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Scott Elcomb <psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Dave Cramer <davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>>> My mechanic is looking for someone interested in automotive electronics.
>>> Shop does a lot of work on porsche, and other high end cars.
>>>
>>> Reply to me directly if interested.
>>>
>>> What colleges would have this kind of course ?
>>>
>>
>> This is a pretty lucrative area and something I've been thinking about
>> investigating for a few years.  My hands are full at the moment, but were I
>> available I'd be interested.
>>
>> Mohawk College has some pretty extensive automotive courses.  I think
>> this one covers some of what you're looking for: <
>> http://www.mohawkcollege.ca/calendar/apprenticeships/autoservicetechni.html
>> >
>>
>> --
>>   Scott Elcomb
>>   @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more
>>
>>   Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
>>   http://code.google.com/p/atomos/
>>
>>   Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
>>   http://www.pirateparty.ca/
>>
>
>
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From williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 17:49:37 2012
From: williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Weaver)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 12:49:37 -0500
Subject: arch in a vm?
In-Reply-To: <CAH5qdeye-vQDDN0NC3SeX3e8dLiSPotVHt-MKBTUyBZvPgaHYA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAN_Dec_RK1RwVevNYC2nipZjWKWtCXv+sw6ieLrUMAbQj71fAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121105082936.GA27405@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<CAH5qdeye-vQDDN0NC3SeX3e8dLiSPotVHt-MKBTUyBZvPgaHYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYksyhuTd=Xtq_a6d_p0KSHjzE3y8EZtH4XotLqP9tdY5hHyw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm currently doing this myself on my KVM server. I chose KVM over Virtual
Box mostly because it's what RedHat is using and I'm trying to stay pretty
close to RedHat for my job. Not worth using one distro at work and one at
home for the same purposes. I've also noticed the massive amount of
different management tools available for KVM. Thinks like oVirt are
abundant and can make your KVM as user friendly as VirtualBox or VMWare if
your not really interested in doing the command line management of KVM, and
of course there's virt-manager, though I had a chicken/egg situation there
as I needed a linux box with x to run virt-manager and I needed a VM to
have a linux work environment. I use windows on my desktop for gaming
reasons and I'm far to lazy to dual boot. Truthfully though even for a noob
I got pretty comfortable editing xmls and mucking about in virsh that it's
not that imtimidating. You can also very easily fix anything you muck up if
you keep a few backups of your xml file.

If you go that route I can write something up and send you the steps I
followed to get my ArchLinux build off the ground along with a few
descriptions of why I chose certain things. Configuring arch is another
thing entirely (still working on that)

Will Weaver


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Marcelo Cavalcante <kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>wrote:

> Hello Matt,
>
> As others said, you have these two great options (also others): VirtualBox
> and KVM.
>
> I think the point is not "which one is better", as you already said you
> "haven't worked with VMs for a long while. I thinks that's the point.
> VirtualBox has an GUI more friendly with an easier configuration template
> and other stuff that will make you project easier.
>
> Good look trying this great distro.
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Official_Arch_Linux_Install_Guide
>
> ===================================================
>
> Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib
>
> Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC
> Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
> Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil
> Celular: +55 085 87620983
> Certifica??es: ITIL V3<http://www.itil-officialsite.com/Qualifications/ITILV3QualificationLevels/ITILV3FoundationQualificationinITServiceManagement.aspx>
>  | CSM <http://www.scrumalliance.org/> | LPI-C1 <http://www.lpi.org/> |
> LPI-C2 <http://www.lpi.org/> | LPI-C3 <http://www.lpi.org/> | Novell CLA<http://www.novell.com/training/certinfo/cla/>
> Minha Pessoa: Blog <http://www.marcelocavalcante.net>
> Projetos: Tux-CE <http://www.tux-ce.org> | Archlinux-br<http://www.archlinux-br.org>
>  | Chakra <http://www.chakra-project.org/> | KDE Brasil<http://br.kde.org>
>  | TLUG <http://gtalug.org/wiki/Main_Page> | PUG-CE<http://pug-ce.python.org.br/blog/>
>
> ===================================================
>
>
> Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu.
> N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta).
> Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a
> dissemina??o de v?rus e spam.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 5:29 AM, William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Nov 04, 2012 at 09:53:49PM -0500, Matt Price wrote:
>> > Hi folks,
>> >
>> > After years with Ubuntu, I'm getting the itch to try something else.
>>  Arch
>> > looks like fun but I don't have a spare machine right now to experiment
>> on,
>> > so I would like to install it in a virtual machine on one of my ubuntu
>> > boxes (either my 12.10 laptop or the 12.04 desktop that runs our media
>> > centre and family computer).
>> >
>> > I haven't worked with VM's for a long while -- any suggestions as to
>> which
>> > solution is easiest & most practical?
>> >
>> > Thanks much,
>> > Matt
>>
>> For test run, both VirtualBox and KVM are okay.  I started with
>> VirtualBox because it has better GUI and better mouse response.  Now,
>> I'm using KVM, because it can access raw harddisk, whereas VirtualBox is
>> limited to USB disk.
>> --
>> William
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>
>
>
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 19:43:47 2012
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:43:47 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <CADK3HHLxUUe3Dk7xNGa97R6xpWkO68SPU6Vi8+C2EMZ_UW9WMg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACYksyioznRnhpzmtDHJ5pes8wqqPyhg8TCNVu9TP8hsiA=d_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADK3HHLxUUe3Dk7xNGa97R6xpWkO68SPU6Vi8+C2EMZ_UW9WMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121105194347.GA30605@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, Nov 05, 2012 at 12:43:44PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote:
> He is looking for someone to train to be a mechanic, Finding people
> who can turn wrenches is easy. Finding people that understand
> electronics is more difficult.

So true.  Long ago, we would have people in amateur radio, consumer
electronic repairs, etc.  But, that's dead and gone.  Now, it's just
RMA.

I was interested in this, long ago.  But, the "electronics" you need to
know are just plug into laptop, and run diagnostic program.  If it finds
faulty part, then just replace it.  All the parts (including screws) are
already spec'ed out by the manufacturer.  

Another difficulty is vendor lock-in.  Electronics in Toyota is not the
same as in Volkwagen.  It's difficult to get into vendor channel, and
once in, you're trapped.
-- 
William
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 20:05:04 2012
From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:05:04 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <20121105194347.GA30605-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACYksyioznRnhpzmtDHJ5pes8wqqPyhg8TCNVu9TP8hsiA=d_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADK3HHLxUUe3Dk7xNGa97R6xpWkO68SPU6Vi8+C2EMZ_UW9WMg@mail.gmail.com> <20121105194347.GA30605@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <CADK3HH+ExXbgn2f338Ys0rgKP4W14RxU3UNDuyaMZnVDJSiuHg@mail.gmail.com>

William,

Actually that's not really true. The diagnostics from the computer is only
as good as the input, and the inputs are broken so ....

Many times the factory wrenches can't fix them. Once the car gets over a
certain age many things come into play on a car. Cars are now using 2.5 V
parts which makes the error margin very small. Connectors get corroded.
This can eat up 2.5 V in a hurry.

Vendor lockout actually occurs another way. They all have factory scan
tools, which the independent can't acquire easily.

In the end the system is the same, there are very few inputs/outputs to run
an engine, they are all pretty much the same, how they interact with
everything else is the complex bit.

Dave

Dave Cramer


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:43 PM, William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 05, 2012 at 12:43:44PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote:
> > He is looking for someone to train to be a mechanic, Finding people
> > who can turn wrenches is easy. Finding people that understand
> > electronics is more difficult.
>
> So true.  Long ago, we would have people in amateur radio, consumer
> electronic repairs, etc.  But, that's dead and gone.  Now, it's just
> RMA.
>
> I was interested in this, long ago.  But, the "electronics" you need to
> know are just plug into laptop, and run diagnostic program.  If it finds
> faulty part, then just replace it.  All the parts (including screws) are
> already spec'ed out by the manufacturer.
>
> Another difficulty is vendor lock-in.  Electronics in Toyota is not the
> same as in Volkwagen.  It's difficult to get into vendor channel, and
> once in, you're trapped.
> --
> William
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 20:32:09 2012
From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:32:09 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMua2SEx17Bve=RU3BTGwyBEXNJB57beGBR-KojbMk4Yfa-sPQ@mail.gmail.com>

reminds me that GM announced they are hiring 10,000 IT positions next
year.. .. definitely a possible goldmine area to specialize in.
.tl
On Nov 5, 2012 12:20 PM, "Scott Elcomb" <psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Dave Cramer <davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> My mechanic is looking for someone interested in automotive electronics.
>> Shop does a lot of work on porsche, and other high end cars.
>>
>> Reply to me directly if interested.
>>
>> What colleges would have this kind of course ?
>>
>
> This is a pretty lucrative area and something I've been thinking about
> investigating for a few years.  My hands are full at the moment, but were I
> available I'd be interested.
>
> Mohawk College has some pretty extensive automotive courses.  I think this
> one covers some of what you're looking for: <
> http://www.mohawkcollege.ca/calendar/apprenticeships/autoservicetechni.html
> >
>
> --
>   Scott Elcomb
>   @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more
>
>   Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
>   http://code.google.com/p/atomos/
>
>   Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
>   http://www.pirateparty.ca/
>
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From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 20:35:26 2012
From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:35:26 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <CAMua2SEx17Bve=RU3BTGwyBEXNJB57beGBR-KojbMk4Yfa-sPQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com> <CAMua2SEx17Bve=RU3BTGwyBEXNJB57beGBR-KojbMk4Yfa-sPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADK3HHJ4m-GmmajTObd=+av4C4pd16i4RjnGoxQZhoBw0vy=sA@mail.gmail.com>

10,000 ? wtf ?

That just sounds like a cluster ...

Dave

Dave Cramer


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:32 PM, ted leslie <ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> reminds me that GM announced they are hiring 10,000 IT positions next
> year.. .. definitely a possible goldmine area to specialize in.
> .tl
> On Nov 5, 2012 12:20 PM, "Scott Elcomb" <psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Dave Cramer <davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>>> My mechanic is looking for someone interested in automotive electronics.
>>> Shop does a lot of work on porsche, and other high end cars.
>>>
>>> Reply to me directly if interested.
>>>
>>> What colleges would have this kind of course ?
>>>
>>
>> This is a pretty lucrative area and something I've been thinking about
>> investigating for a few years.  My hands are full at the moment, but were I
>> available I'd be interested.
>>
>> Mohawk College has some pretty extensive automotive courses.  I think
>> this one covers some of what you're looking for: <
>> http://www.mohawkcollege.ca/calendar/apprenticeships/autoservicetechni.html
>> >
>>
>> --
>>   Scott Elcomb
>>   @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more
>>
>>   Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
>>   http://code.google.com/p/atomos/
>>
>>   Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
>>   http://www.pirateparty.ca/
>>
>
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 20:44:16 2012
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:44:16 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <CAMua2SEx17Bve=RU3BTGwyBEXNJB57beGBR-KojbMk4Yfa-sPQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMua2SEx17Bve=RU3BTGwyBEXNJB57beGBR-KojbMk4Yfa-sPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121105204416.GA30871@node1.opengeometry.net>

That's US.  Not sure how many jobs will trickle up here.  It's right
direction, though.
-- 
William

On Mon, Nov 05, 2012 at 03:32:09PM -0500, ted leslie wrote:
> reminds me that GM announced they are hiring 10,000 IT positions next
> year.. .. definitely a possible goldmine area to specialize in.
> .tl
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 21:03:30 2012
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:03:30 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <CADK3HHJ4m-GmmajTObd=+av4C4pd16i4RjnGoxQZhoBw0vy=sA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMua2SEx17Bve=RU3BTGwyBEXNJB57beGBR-KojbMk4Yfa-sPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADK3HHJ4m-GmmajTObd=+av4C4pd16i4RjnGoxQZhoBw0vy=sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFNqd5XDM6BPqJvAvnJg7OxmQqC-h5hYY5Z7Psw2-xo43u0n8A@mail.gmail.com>

Well, here's reference to the story:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/10/09/wdr-general-motors-computer-software-hiring.html

It seems like a fine idea for GM to be hiring people; for them to have a
broader set of people doing stuff that supports the staggeringly large set
of retirees collecting pensions is pretty essential.  (Speaking just of GM
Canada, there are about 30K retirees, but only about 10K employees...  That
seems like trouble to me...)


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Dave Cramer <davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> 10,000 ? wtf ?
>
> That just sounds like a cluster ...
>
> Dave
>
> Dave Cramer
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:32 PM, ted leslie <ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> reminds me that GM announced they are hiring 10,000 IT positions next
>> year.. .. definitely a possible goldmine area to specialize in.
>> .tl
>> On Nov 5, 2012 12:20 PM, "Scott Elcomb" <psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Dave Cramer <davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>wrote:
>>>
>>>> My mechanic is looking for someone interested in automotive
>>>> electronics. Shop does a lot of work on porsche, and other high end cars.
>>>>
>>>> Reply to me directly if interested.
>>>>
>>>> What colleges would have this kind of course ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is a pretty lucrative area and something I've been thinking about
>>> investigating for a few years.  My hands are full at the moment, but were I
>>> available I'd be interested.
>>>
>>> Mohawk College has some pretty extensive automotive courses.  I think
>>> this one covers some of what you're looking for: <
>>> http://www.mohawkcollege.ca/calendar/apprenticeships/autoservicetechni.html
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>>   Scott Elcomb
>>>   @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more
>>>
>>>   Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
>>>   http://code.google.com/p/atomos/
>>>
>>>   Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
>>>   http://www.pirateparty.ca/
>>>
>>
>


-- 
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov  5 21:14:49 2012
From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:14:49 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <CAFNqd5XDM6BPqJvAvnJg7OxmQqC-h5hYY5Z7Psw2-xo43u0n8A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMua2SEx17Bve=RU3BTGwyBEXNJB57beGBR-KojbMk4Yfa-sPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADK3HHJ4m-GmmajTObd=+av4C4pd16i4RjnGoxQZhoBw0vy=sA@mail.gmail.com> <CAFNqd5XDM6BPqJvAvnJg7OxmQqC-h5hYY5Z7Psw2-xo43u0n8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADK3HHLRaOg41us5CDeT5HOZDvoeYB9WgMjmCX_Y70Lr0+whWg@mail.gmail.com>

So where do you think one is going to find 10,000 embedded software
engineers ? It's not quite as lucrative as $150k jobs in SF ?

Interesting challenge.

RE retiree to employee ration, agreed that can't be good for the bottom
line. Damn these people living longer ;)

Dave

Dave Cramer


On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Christopher Browne <cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>wrote:

> Well, here's reference to the story:
>
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/10/09/wdr-general-motors-computer-software-hiring.html
>
> It seems like a fine idea for GM to be hiring people; for them to have a
> broader set of people doing stuff that supports the staggeringly large set
> of retirees collecting pensions is pretty essential.  (Speaking just of GM
> Canada, there are about 30K retirees, but only about 10K employees...  That
> seems like trouble to me...)
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Dave Cramer <davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> 10,000 ? wtf ?
>>
>> That just sounds like a cluster ...
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Dave Cramer
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:32 PM, ted leslie <ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>>> reminds me that GM announced they are hiring 10,000 IT positions next
>>> year.. .. definitely a possible goldmine area to specialize in.
>>> .tl
>>> On Nov 5, 2012 12:20 PM, "Scott Elcomb" <psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Dave Cramer <davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My mechanic is looking for someone interested in automotive
>>>>> electronics. Shop does a lot of work on porsche, and other high end cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reply to me directly if interested.
>>>>>
>>>>> What colleges would have this kind of course ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is a pretty lucrative area and something I've been thinking about
>>>> investigating for a few years.  My hands are full at the moment, but were I
>>>> available I'd be interested.
>>>>
>>>> Mohawk College has some pretty extensive automotive courses.  I think
>>>> this one covers some of what you're looking for: <
>>>> http://www.mohawkcollege.ca/calendar/apprenticeships/autoservicetechni.html
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>   Scott Elcomb
>>>>   @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more
>>>>
>>>>   Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
>>>>   http://code.google.com/p/atomos/
>>>>
>>>>   Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
>>>>   http://www.pirateparty.ca/
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
> question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
>
>
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From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov  6 00:01:18 2012
From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:01:18 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <20121105204416.GA30871-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com> <CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com> <CAMua2SEx17Bve=RU3BTGwyBEXNJB57beGBR-KojbMk4Yfa-sPQ@mail.gmail.com> <20121105204416.GA30871@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <5098534E.5040301@gmail.com>

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/11/05/new-automotive-company-hiring-in-windsor/
some.
-tl

On 11/05/2012 03:44 PM, William Park wrote:
> That's US.  Not sure how many jobs will trickle up here.  It's right
> direction, though.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov  6 01:04:03 2012
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 20:04:03 -0500
Subject: Laptop resolution issue.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211051009450.25998-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1352088114.2411.25.camel@jimslaptop>
	 <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211051009450.25998@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <1352163843.2411.37.camel@jimslaptop>

On Mon, 2012-11-05 at 10:29 -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> | From: jim <cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>
> 
> | Wondering if anyone has any thoughts on a problem I am having with my
> | laptop. For some reason I can only chose the native resolution of
> | 1440x900.
> 

> 
> Problem mirroring the display on another display with a different
> resolution?  I don't have much experience with that kind of problem
> and it seems that it gets tricky.

Yes this is the problem I am having. Projectors don't have the same
resolution so mirroring displays is wonky unless both the laptop and
projector have the same resolution. Strange thing is I used to get lots
of compatible resolutions on my laptop now just the 1440x900
Jim
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> 


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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov  6 05:10:41 2012
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 00:10:41 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <5098534E.5040301-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMua2SEx17Bve=RU3BTGwyBEXNJB57beGBR-KojbMk4Yfa-sPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121105204416.GA30871@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <5098534E.5040301@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121106051041.GA8568@node1.opengeometry.net>

Strange.  The whole point of GM doing software development in-house is
to not rely on consulting company (like Autodata mentioned in the
article).  
-- 
William

On Mon, Nov 05, 2012 at 07:01:18PM -0500, Ted wrote:
> http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/11/05/new-automotive-company-hiring-in-windsor/
> some.
> -tl
> 
> On 11/05/2012 03:44 PM, William Park wrote:
> >That's US.  Not sure how many jobs will trickle up here.  It's right
> >direction, though.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov  6 06:31:36 2012
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 01:31:36 -0500
Subject: Laptop resolution issue.
In-Reply-To: <20121105124206.GA29724-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <1352088114.2411.25.camel@jimslaptop>
	 <20121105124206.GA29724@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <1352183496.3619.16.camel@jimslaptop>

On Mon, 2012-11-05 at 07:42 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 04, 2012 at 11:01:54PM -0500, jim wrote
> > Wondering if anyone has any thoughts on a problem I am having with my
> > laptop. For some reason I can only chose the native resolution of
> > 1440x900. I am using the nvidia driver 304.60 . It used to be that in
> > the Nvidia settings menu I could select a number of resolutions but now
> > only the one?? I am attaching my current xorg.conf file below in case
> > that is of any use. Thanks for any advice on this one.
> > Cheers,
> > Jim
> 
>   The first, and easiest (if it works) solution is to temporarily rename
> /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d to something different, and
> see if it works.  If not, rename them back.
Thanks it appears from searching online that xorg.conf has been
deprecated in Ubuntu 12.04. xorg.conf.d is now
in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d and xorg.conf as far as the monitor goes
is replaced with 10-monitor.conf . Here is more info on this here: 
http://samuelmartin.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/enabling-resolutions-in-ubuntu-12-04-lubuntu-12-04/ I followed the instructions . As a test I added a modeline for 640 x480. Below is the file.  I still only have the option of 1440 x900 in the Nvidia Settings window.
> 
>   A few other avenues to look at...
> 1) What is the output of the "xrandr" command?

Screen 0: minimum 8 x 8, current 1440 x 900, maximum 8192 x 8192
VGA-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
LVDS-0 connected 1440x900+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
331mm x 207mm
   1440x900       59.9*+
HDMI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)


> 2) Plow through the output of /var/log/Xorg.0.log and see if you can
>    find any hints there.
No can't see any hints except I know it is seeing the file
10-monitor.conf.
Thanks for any help in trying to get to the bottom of this.
Jim

10-monitor.conf below:

Section "Monitor"
  Identifier "Monitor0"
   Modeline "640x480_60.00"  23.86  640 656 720 800  480 481 484 497
-HSync +Vsync
EndSection
Section "Screen"
  Identifier "Screenb0"
  Device "LVDS-0"
  Monitor "Monitor0"
  DefaultDepth 24
  SubSection "Display"
    Depth 24
    Modes "640x480_60.00"
  EndSubSection
EndSection




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The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov  6 10:09:47 2012
From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 05:09:47 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <20121106051041.GA8568-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMua2SEx17Bve=RU3BTGwyBEXNJB57beGBR-KojbMk4Yfa-sPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121105204416.GA30871@node1.opengeometry.net> <5098534E.5040301@gmail.com> <20121106051041.GA8568@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <CADK3HHJ1=bDKZkL_xkr6JxKO79axJPFwSAFKgvjtABrpCg28xA@mail.gmail.com>

I don't think they are related. Autodata just collects data about cars and
provides them to independents at a cost.


Dave Cramer


On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:10 AM, William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Strange.  The whole point of GM doing software development in-house is
> to not rely on consulting company (like Autodata mentioned in the
> article).
> --
> William
>
> On Mon, Nov 05, 2012 at 07:01:18PM -0500, Ted wrote:
> >
> http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/11/05/new-automotive-company-hiring-in-windsor/
> > some.
> > -tl
> >
> > On 11/05/2012 03:44 PM, William Park wrote:
> > >That's US.  Not sure how many jobs will trickle up here.  It's right
> > >direction, though.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov  6 13:01:13 2012
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 08:01:13 -0500
Subject: anyone here have an interest in automotive electronics
In-Reply-To: <CADK3HHJ1=bDKZkL_xkr6JxKO79axJPFwSAFKgvjtABrpCg28xA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CADK3HH+T+5WuMLMH1CSEd3aFX-rU97L4sQ0jXPyyteB-8n47Nw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEx-jsPnakqR2hkCbCDuTBLh_S88bJBjV4LhqF8A0Bu_spv31w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMua2SEx17Bve=RU3BTGwyBEXNJB57beGBR-KojbMk4Yfa-sPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121105204416.GA30871@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<5098534E.5040301@gmail.com>
	<20121106051041.GA8568@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<CADK3HHJ1=bDKZkL_xkr6JxKO79axJPFwSAFKgvjtABrpCg28xA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFNqd5UwY+x9jPiVA+98gK4nk+iW8Y7tC6vidtuRc7=N+2BMOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Wouldn't it be interesting if the *real* goal was to cut down on external
folks in the IT function at GM...  Remember, it was EDS that became Perot
Data Systems that had run their IT infrastructure for lo many years...

It would be interesting if they decided to draw that (which is effectively
conventional IT support) back into GM.  And sorta fun (in a slightly
perverse way) if all the bits about embedded systems were fabricated from
whole cloth by journalists that didn't understand what they heard.

I don't hold to that...

But 10,000 embedded developers sure seems like an enormous quantity of
specialists to be looking for.

If it's so, I would kind of expect it to turn out with something of the
"turning out badly" that we saw at RIM.  They kept hiring buildings full of
people (many being skilled, smart people), apparently imagining that a
grand design would naturally emerge from this.  The implosion been seen now
shows that this doesn't happen.


On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 5:09 AM, Dave Cramer <davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I don't think they are related. Autodata just collects data about cars and
> provides them to independents at a cost.
>
>
> Dave Cramer
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 12:10 AM, William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>wrote:
>
>> Strange.  The whole point of GM doing software development in-house is
>> to not rely on consulting company (like Autodata mentioned in the
>> article).
>> --
>> William
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 05, 2012 at 07:01:18PM -0500, Ted wrote:
>> >
>> http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/11/05/new-automotive-company-hiring-in-windsor/
>> > some.
>> > -tl
>> >
>> > On 11/05/2012 03:44 PM, William Park wrote:
>> > >That's US.  Not sure how many jobs will trickle up here.  It's right
>> > >direction, though.
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>
>
>


-- 
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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From williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov  6 17:18:48 2012
From: williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Weaver)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:18:48 -0500
Subject: New NVidia Linux Drivers
Message-ID: <CACYksyirmF7J6CK2QmQcD7bnJRMUL44Rszw1qRQFaRcA-xKVdw@mail.gmail.com>

For anyone interested in the Linux Gaming scene, I saw this article,
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/06/nvidia_heralds_steam_for_linux/,
and checked the NVidia driver page, http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html,
and saw that they updated the drivers today.

I wanted to throw this to the group as I thought it was cool. I don't have
a machine to do benchmarks on the two drivers with (I have a ATI) but I'm
checking with others in my friend group to see if I can find someone with a
setup to benchmark this. If I get any results I'll put them out.

Will Weaver
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From jli-WfwUpw1fXYjQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov  6 19:48:20 2012
From: jli-WfwUpw1fXYjQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John Li)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 19:48:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: All in one box for open source PBX?
Message-ID: <loom.20121106T202300-799@post.gmane.org>

Hi,

Looking for a all in one box(or board) type of solution for open source PBX? 
Wondering if you are aware of some products and if you can share your experience.

Thanks a lot.

John

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov  6 20:33:49 2012
From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 15:33:49 -0500
Subject: All in one box for open source PBX?
In-Reply-To: <loom.20121106T202300-799-eS7Uydv5nfjZ+VzJOa5vwg@public.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20121106T202300-799@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <CAHieY7QHMOwNT=+xn6HJOv3wyhvCOk1a_xhz-pzv2bT3gowJ+g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:48 PM, John Li <jli-WfwUpw1fXYjQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Looking for a all in one box(or board) type of solution for open source PBX?
> Wondering if you are aware of some products and if you can share your experience.
>

We have lately used Atcom products from China and I think they have a PBX:

http://atcom.cn/products_ippbx.html

We use their ATAs but the company seems pretty cool and their PBX
products should be a s good.

Other commercial products:

http://www.digium.com/en/
http://www.trixbox.com/products/appliance

This is a bit old butit shows the top 10 and their commercial links
will likely take you to hardware versions.

http://www.voiptoday.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=414:top-10-open-source-pbx-software&catid=53:general

> Thanks a lot.
>
> John
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov  6 20:38:29 2012
From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 15:38:29 -0500
Subject: All in one box for open source PBX?
In-Reply-To: <CAHieY7QHMOwNT=+xn6HJOv3wyhvCOk1a_xhz-pzv2bT3gowJ+g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20121106T202300-799@post.gmane.org> <CAHieY7QHMOwNT=+xn6HJOv3wyhvCOk1a_xhz-pzv2bT3gowJ+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB+Utq8x2Lk_RjaTJiVT_OrEDjFK0YT0hc8uvG4GQar3x_-yGA@mail.gmail.com>

I've used a Free Solution thats open source, FreePBX combined with Asterisks.

I've only used it with a SIP ATA Router, and voice mail and menu
system. I've also used it for call forwarding.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov  6 22:48:15 2012
From: williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Weaver)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:48:15 -0500
Subject: All in one box for open source PBX?
In-Reply-To: <CAB+Utq8x2Lk_RjaTJiVT_OrEDjFK0YT0hc8uvG4GQar3x_-yGA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20121106T202300-799@post.gmane.org>
	<CAHieY7QHMOwNT=+xn6HJOv3wyhvCOk1a_xhz-pzv2bT3gowJ+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB+Utq8x2Lk_RjaTJiVT_OrEDjFK0YT0hc8uvG4GQar3x_-yGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACYksyjnynKe=_mwW40vShLob=G4f+jOPy79j42N2Exxa-oE3A@mail.gmail.com>

So I passed the info on to a friend of mine who just set up one for his
company. His response is quoted below.

"We use this:
http://www.nicherons.com/ippbx02.html

It's asterisk based and it runs the voip system for our office. It doesn't
get very hot, fits in the palm of my hand, has no moving parts, and runs
asterisk. It ran us about $275.

I don't how many simultaneous calls it can handle before it would start
bogging down - I wouldn't use it in a high call volume scenario. There's a
bigger one with more i/o also.

Our voip system is simply that plus a SIP provider called 1-VoIP. We pay
about 20 bucks a month for unlimited SIP trunking. Basically every Cisco,
comcast, etc. etc. who followed up
was just like "yea, we can't fuck with that" when I told them what our
solution had cost us. Also, we use Grandstream GXP2000 ip phones, which are
decent and run about 80 bucks each I think.

1-VoIP
http://www.1-voip.com/voip/
These guys are the cheapest we found in the game, and have US based
support. I can tell from dealing with them that they are a really small
outfit, but they make a really solid effort to provide good customer
support and I've yet to have a problem that wasn't resolved very quickly.

You could also run asterisk on a linux box. If all you are using is VoIP
and SIP trunks then it's cheap. When you start getting into the FXS/FXO
port cards that break your connections out into POTS lines for things like
failover or fax machines it can get pricey. Cheap assumes you have someone
who is competent enough to set up asterisk on Linux and get it configured
quickly.

That's my 2 cents."

Good luck,

Will Weaver


On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Dave Germiquet <davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>wrote:

> I've used a Free Solution thats open source, FreePBX combined with
> Asterisks.
>
> I've only used it with a SIP ATA Router, and voice mail and menu
> system. I've also used it for call forwarding.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From jli-WfwUpw1fXYjQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Nov  7 00:12:42 2012
From: jli-WfwUpw1fXYjQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John Li)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 19:12:42 -0500
Subject: All in one box for open source PBX?
In-Reply-To: <CACYksyjnynKe=_mwW40vShLob=G4f+jOPy79j42N2Exxa-oE3A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20121106T202300-799@post.gmane.org>
	<CAHieY7QHMOwNT=+xn6HJOv3wyhvCOk1a_xhz-pzv2bT3gowJ+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB+Utq8x2Lk_RjaTJiVT_OrEDjFK0YT0hc8uvG4GQar3x_-yGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACYksyjnynKe=_mwW40vShLob=G4f+jOPy79j42N2Exxa-oE3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALptE=n9XoZ7ko2AeStZvPd42yyDp5Wjb+2wa-Qg461jFZWcbg@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, thanks a lot for the replies, especially from William, Dave and
Alejandro.

The solutions are great to get started but we also want to go one step
further to have T1/E1 integration in a single board too.  Any suggestion?

Thanks for your help.

John
On Nov 6, 2012 5:48 PM, "William Weaver" <williamdweaver-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> So I passed the info on to a friend of mine who just set up one for his
> company. His response is quoted below.
>
> "We use this:
> http://www.nicherons.com/ippbx02.html
>
> It's asterisk based and it runs the voip system for our office. It doesn't
> get very hot, fits in the palm of my hand, has no moving parts, and runs
> asterisk. It ran us about $275.
>
> I don't how many simultaneous calls it can handle before it would start
> bogging down - I wouldn't use it in a high call volume scenario. There's a
> bigger one with more i/o also.
>
> Our voip system is simply that plus a SIP provider called 1-VoIP. We pay
> about 20 bucks a month for unlimited SIP trunking. Basically every Cisco,
> comcast, etc. etc. who followed up
> was just like "yea, we can't fuck with that" when I told them what our
> solution had cost us. Also, we use Grandstream GXP2000 ip phones, which are
> decent and run about 80 bucks each I think.
>
> 1-VoIP
> http://www.1-voip.com/voip/
> These guys are the cheapest we found in the game, and have US based
> support. I can tell from dealing with them that they are a really small
> outfit, but they make a really solid effort to provide good customer
> support and I've yet to have a problem that wasn't resolved very quickly.
>
> You could also run asterisk on a linux box. If all you are using is VoIP
> and SIP trunks then it's cheap. When you start getting into the FXS/FXO
> port cards that break your connections out into POTS lines for things like
> failover or fax machines it can get pricey. Cheap assumes you have someone
> who is competent enough to set up asterisk on Linux and get it configured
> quickly.
>
> That's my 2 cents."
>
> Good luck,
>
> Will Weaver
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Dave Germiquet <davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>wrote:
>
>> I've used a Free Solution thats open source, FreePBX combined with
>> Asterisks.
>>
>> I've only used it with a SIP ATA Router, and voice mail and menu
>> system. I've also used it for call forwarding.
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>
>
>
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From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Wed Nov  7 04:55:36 2012
From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 23:55:36 -0500
Subject: All in one box for open source PBX?
In-Reply-To: <CALptE=n9XoZ7ko2AeStZvPd42yyDp5Wjb+2wa-Qg461jFZWcbg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20121106T202300-799@post.gmane.org>
	<CAHieY7QHMOwNT=+xn6HJOv3wyhvCOk1a_xhz-pzv2bT3gowJ+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB+Utq8x2Lk_RjaTJiVT_OrEDjFK0YT0hc8uvG4GQar3x_-yGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACYksyjnynKe=_mwW40vShLob=G4f+jOPy79j42N2Exxa-oE3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALptE=n9XoZ7ko2AeStZvPd42yyDp5Wjb+2wa-Qg461jFZWcbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHieY7TtEgzR-B+1AeU7ds29qEfrQpqekLQfLtD6w5Gag9WZCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 7:12 PM, John Li <jli-WfwUpw1fXYjQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Wow, thanks a lot for the replies, especially from William, Dave and
> Alejandro.
>
> The solutions are great to get started but we also want to go one step
> further to have T1/E1 integration in a single board too.  Any suggestion?

I dunno about SBC that have integrated T1/E1, since just the boards
are probable more expensive than the computer you will install it on.
All you would need is an integrated PC motherboard with a free PCI
slot and a Digium E1/T1 card such as:
http://www.digiumcards.com/Digium_TE122P-vpmadt032.html

Are you looking for a pre-packed solution or you want to build your own?

-- 
Alejandro
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From jli-WfwUpw1fXYjQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Nov  7 05:05:45 2012
From: jli-WfwUpw1fXYjQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John Li)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 00:05:45 -0500
Subject: All in one box for open source PBX?
In-Reply-To: <CAHieY7TtEgzR-B+1AeU7ds29qEfrQpqekLQfLtD6w5Gag9WZCw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20121106T202300-799@post.gmane.org> <CAHieY7QHMOwNT=+xn6HJOv3wyhvCOk1a_xhz-pzv2bT3gowJ+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB+Utq8x2Lk_RjaTJiVT_OrEDjFK0YT0hc8uvG4GQar3x_-yGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACYksyjnynKe=_mwW40vShLob=G4f+jOPy79j42N2Exxa-oE3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALptE=n9XoZ7ko2AeStZvPd42yyDp5Wjb+2wa-Qg461jFZWcbg@mail.gmail.com> <CAHieY7TtEgzR-B+1AeU7ds29qEfrQpqekLQfLtD6w5Gag9WZCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALptE=n3YGCxmnCp2-_WaOwphpTCJ_mccPqFowh64EcHT3PGPQ@mail.gmail.com>

The reason that we would like to get all integrated in one board solution
is we are hoping that could be more robust and lower cost for the solution.

The system is for for the large scale deployment scenario so robust and
cost is the key.

Thanks.

-- 
John


On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Alejandro Imass <aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org>wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 7:12 PM, John Li <jli-WfwUpw1fXYjQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Wow, thanks a lot for the replies, especially from William, Dave and
> > Alejandro.
> >
> > The solutions are great to get started but we also want to go one step
> > further to have T1/E1 integration in a single board too.  Any suggestion?
>
> I dunno about SBC that have integrated T1/E1, since just the boards
> are probable more expensive than the computer you will install it on.
> All you would need is an integrated PC motherboard with a free PCI
> slot and a Digium E1/T1 card such as:
> http://www.digiumcards.com/Digium_TE122P-vpmadt032.html
>
> Are you looking for a pre-packed solution or you want to build your own?
>
> --
> Alejandro
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov  8 16:01:36 2012
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:01:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Laptop resolution issue.
In-Reply-To: <1352183496.3619.16.camel@jimslaptop>
References: <1352088114.2411.25.camel@jimslaptop>  <20121105124206.GA29724@waltdnes.org> <1352183496.3619.16.camel@jimslaptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211081027170.24426@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: jim <cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

| > Problem mirroring the display on another display with a different
| > resolution?  I don't have much experience with that kind of problem
| > and it seems that it gets tricky.
| 
| Yes this is the problem I am having. Projectors don't have the same
| resolution so mirroring displays is wonky unless both the laptop and
| projector have the same resolution. Strange thing is I used to get lots
| of compatible resolutions on my laptop now just the 1440x900

Usually there is some arcane keystroke to cycle between the external
video adapter, the internal screen, or both.

Can you live with just the external screen working?  Then that screens
resolution could be used without conflict.

Can you live with both displays working, but not mirrored?

| From: jim <cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

| On Mon, 2012-11-05 at 07:42 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
| > On Sun, Nov 04, 2012 at 11:01:54PM -0500, jim wrote
| > > Wondering if anyone has any thoughts on a problem I am having with my
| > > laptop. For some reason I can only chose the native resolution of
| > > 1440x900. I am using the nvidia driver 304.60 . It used to be that in
| > > the Nvidia settings menu I could select a number of resolutions but now
| > > only the one?? I am attaching my current xorg.conf file below in case
| > > that is of any use. Thanks for any advice on this one.

Perhaps you can downgrade to an older proprietary driver.  Or even
experiment with Nouveau.

With proprietary drivers you get what you get.  My impression is that
bug reports / feature requests are not listened to (by nVidia or AMD).

| >   The first, and easiest (if it works) solution is to temporarily rename
| > /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d to something different, and
| > see if it works.  If not, rename them back.
| Thanks it appears from searching online that xorg.conf has been
| deprecated in Ubuntu 12.04. xorg.conf.d is now
| in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d and xorg.conf as far as the monitor goes
| is replaced with 10-monitor.conf . Here is more info on this here: 
| http://samuelmartin.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/enabling-resolutions-in-ubuntu-12-04-lubuntu-12-04/ I followed the instructions . As a test I added a modeline for 640 x480. Below is the file.  I still only have the option of 1440 x900 in the Nvidia Settings window.

The conf file has been deprecated for a long time.  And for good
reasons (it was complex and few users had any way of knowing what
shold be in there).

Unfortunately, some installations don't work automatically.  For
example, I have a KVM that doesn't pass information about the monitor
to X so X gets confused (to make a complex story simple).

On one machine, X got so confused that X could not run.

X will still use a config file if you have one.  For example, I've
built a config file to work around my KVM problem.  It is possible
that you could do the same.

The config file is still complex so you might need help building it.

- there is a way of invoking the X server that gets it to spit out the
  config file it synthesized.  That is a good starting point.  It
  requires you to be able to boot to console mode, without X running
  so you can start it up manually.  I don't even know how you do that
  with current distros (probably easy, but different from the old
  days with init levels).

- if you have an old system that worked, steal its xorg.conf or
  XFree86.conf

| >   A few other avenues to look at...
| > 1) What is the output of the "xrandr" command?
| 
| Screen 0: minimum 8 x 8, current 1440 x 900, maximum 8192 x 8192

I don't actually know what that means.

| VGA-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)

Clearly your other monitor is not connected.  The output might be more
interesting if the other monitor were connected.

| LVDS-0 connected 1440x900+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 331mm x 207mm
|    1440x900       59.9*+

This shows that the monitor reports to X that there is only one
resolution that it knows about.

The reporting is via EDID or DDC.  If you look through /var/log/Xorg.0.log
you will see X's conversation with the (built-in) monitor.  The
conversation is different for each X server device driver (nouveau,
nvidia proprietary, radeon, amd proprietary, intel, whatever).

Looking at a system with nvidia proprietary driver, I see that its
reporting is very modest.  It doesn't even report synthesized
modelines -- all other drivers that I've looked at do.

| HDMI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)

This isn't connected either.

| > 2) Plow through the output of /var/log/Xorg.0.log and see if you can
| >    find any hints there.
| No can't see any hints except I know it is seeing the file
| 10-monitor.conf.
| Thanks for any help in trying to get to the bottom of this.
| Jim
| 
| 10-monitor.conf below:
| 
| Section "Monitor"
|   Identifier "Monitor0"
|    Modeline "640x480_60.00"  23.86  640 656 720 800  480 481 484 497 -HSync +Vsync
| EndSection
| Section "Screen"
|   Identifier "Screenb0"
|   Device "LVDS-0"
|   Monitor "Monitor0"
|   DefaultDepth 24
|   SubSection "Display"
|     Depth 24
|     Modes "640x480_60.00"
|   EndSubSection
| EndSection

The proprietary driver is what it is.  My impression is that it
doesn't follow all the conventions that other drivers do.

Does the Xorg.0.log file show any consideration of the setting in
10-monitor.conf?  For example, some hint of rejection?
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov  8 19:29:21 2012
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 14:29:21 -0500
Subject: Laptop resolution issue.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211081027170.24426-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1352088114.2411.25.camel@jimslaptop>
 <20121105124206.GA29724@waltdnes.org>
 <1352183496.3619.16.camel@jimslaptop>
 <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211081027170.24426@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <20121108192921.GC14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Nov 08, 2012 at 11:01:36AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> Usually there is some arcane keystroke to cycle between the external
> video adapter, the internal screen, or both.

nvidia-settings no longer has support to change resolutions?

> Can you live with just the external screen working?  Then that screens
> resolution could be used without conflict.
> 
> Can you live with both displays working, but not mirrored?
> 
> Perhaps you can downgrade to an older proprietary driver.  Or even
> experiment with Nouveau.
> 
> With proprietary drivers you get what you get.  My impression is that
> bug reports / feature requests are not listened to (by nVidia or AMD).

Actually nvidia tends to respond to bug reports quite well.  My experience
is AMD doesn't.

> The conf file has been deprecated for a long time.  And for good
> reasons (it was complex and few users had any way of knowing what
> shold be in there).
> 
> Unfortunately, some installations don't work automatically.  For
> example, I have a KVM that doesn't pass information about the monitor
> to X so X gets confused (to make a complex story simple).
> 
> On one machine, X got so confused that X could not run.
> 
> X will still use a config file if you have one.  For example, I've
> built a config file to work around my KVM problem.  It is possible
> that you could do the same.
> 
> The config file is still complex so you might need help building it.
> 
> - there is a way of invoking the X server that gets it to spit out the
>   config file it synthesized.  That is a good starting point.  It
>   requires you to be able to boot to console mode, without X running
>   so you can start it up manually.  I don't even know how you do that
>   with current distros (probably easy, but different from the old
>   days with init levels).
> 
> - if you have an old system that worked, steal its xorg.conf or
>   XFree86.conf
> 
> I don't actually know what that means.
> 
> Clearly your other monitor is not connected.  The output might be more
> interesting if the other monitor were connected.
> 
> This shows that the monitor reports to X that there is only one
> resolution that it knows about.
> 
> The reporting is via EDID or DDC.  If you look through /var/log/Xorg.0.log
> you will see X's conversation with the (built-in) monitor.  The
> conversation is different for each X server device driver (nouveau,
> nvidia proprietary, radeon, amd proprietary, intel, whatever).
> 
> Looking at a system with nvidia proprietary driver, I see that its
> reporting is very modest.  It doesn't even report synthesized
> modelines -- all other drivers that I've looked at do.
> 
> This isn't connected either.
> 
> The proprietary driver is what it is.  My impression is that it
> doesn't follow all the conventions that other drivers do.
> 
> Does the Xorg.0.log file show any consideration of the setting in
> 10-monitor.conf?  For example, some hint of rejection?

Well xrandr used to not work with the nvidia driver.  I think they claim
to have fixed that, although I haven't tried yet.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov  9 07:04:28 2012
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 02:04:28 -0500
Subject: Laptop resolution issue.
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211081027170.24426-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1352088114.2411.25.camel@jimslaptop>
	 <20121105124206.GA29724@waltdnes.org> <1352183496.3619.16.camel@jimslaptop>
	 <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211081027170.24426@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <1352444668.5696.11.camel@jimslaptop>


> | > Problem mirroring the display on another display with a different
> | > resolution?  I don't have much experience with that kind of problem
> | > and it seems that it gets tricky.
> | 
> | Yes this is the problem I am having. Projectors don't have the same
> | resolution so mirroring displays is wonky unless both the laptop and
> | projector have the same resolution. Strange thing is I used to get lots
> | of compatible resolutions on my laptop now just the 1440x900
> 
> Usually there is some arcane keystroke to cycle between the external
> video adapter, the internal screen, or both.
Yes but this isn't the issue. It is just that my laptop display doesn't
show any other resolution that 1440x900 where there used to be a list of
available resolutions.
> 
> Can you live with just the external screen working?  Then that screens
> resolution could be used without conflict.
> 
> Can you live with both displays working, but not mirrored?

No I really want to have both working and mirrored. 
> 

> 
> Perhaps you can downgrade to an older proprietary driver.  Or even
> experiment with Nouveau.
I would prefer to use the nvidia driver. It used to work fine??
> 


> 
> | >   A few other avenues to look at...
> | > 1) What is the output of the "xrandr" command?
> | 
> | Screen 0: minimum 8 x 8, current 1440 x 900, maximum 8192 x 8192
> 
> I don't actually know what that means.
> 
> | VGA-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
> 
> Clearly your other monitor is not connected.  The output might be more
> interesting if the other monitor were connected.
> 
> | LVDS-0 connected 1440x900+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 331mm x 207mm
> |    1440x900       59.9*+
> 
> This shows that the monitor reports to X that there is only one
> resolution that it knows about.
> 
> The reporting is via EDID or DDC.  If you look through /var/log/Xorg.0.log
> you will see X's conversation with the (built-in) monitor.  The
> conversation is different for each X server device driver (nouveau,
> nvidia proprietary, radeon, amd proprietary, intel, whatever).
> 
> Looking at a system with nvidia proprietary driver, I see that its
> reporting is very modest.  It doesn't even report synthesized
> modelines -- all other drivers that I've looked at do.

I thought maybe my EDID file was corrupted and it may be though when
dusting off my Windows partition and looking at display settings I can
set my monitor to the various available settings.
> 

> 
> Does the Xorg.0.log file show any consideration of the setting in
> 10-monitor.conf?  For example, some hint of rejection?

If I rename Screen in the conf file this is reflected in the log file so
I am quite sure it is being seen,

Using xrandr and trying to add a new mode I get an error as seen below:
jim at jimslaptop:~$ xrandr --addmode LVDS-0 800x600_60.00
X Error of failed request:  BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)
  Major opcode of failed request:  153 (RANDR)
  Minor opcode of failed request:  18 (RRAddOutputMode)
  Serial number of failed request:  27
  Current serial number in output stream:  28

Very frustrating...
Jim


> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> 


--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov  9 07:10:03 2012
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 02:10:03 -0500
Subject: Laptop resolution issue.
In-Reply-To: <20121108192921.GC14557-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <1352088114.2411.25.camel@jimslaptop>
	 <20121105124206.GA29724@waltdnes.org> <1352183496.3619.16.camel@jimslaptop>
	 <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211081027170.24426@redclaw.mimosa.com>
	 <20121108192921.GC14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <1352445003.5696.14.camel@jimslaptop>


> > Usually there is some arcane keystroke to cycle between the external
> > video adapter, the internal screen, or both.
> 
> nvidia-settings no longer has support to change resolutions?
Yes but none show up. The only resolution I see is 1440x900 for some
strange reason.
> 

> > 
> > Does the Xorg.0.log file show any consideration of the setting in
> > 10-monitor.conf?  For example, some hint of rejection?
> 
> Well xrandr used to not work with the nvidia driver.  I think they claim
> to have fixed that, although I haven't tried yet.

I tried xrandr but haven't had any luck either. I'll try the nvidia
forum and see if anyone has any thoughts over there.as to whats going
on.

Jim
> 


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov  9 19:02:46 2012
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 14:02:46 -0500
Subject: Laptop resolution issue.
In-Reply-To: <1352445003.5696.14.camel@jimslaptop>
References: <1352088114.2411.25.camel@jimslaptop>
 <20121105124206.GA29724@waltdnes.org>
 <1352183496.3619.16.camel@jimslaptop>
 <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211081027170.24426@redclaw.mimosa.com>
 <20121108192921.GC14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <1352445003.5696.14.camel@jimslaptop>
Message-ID: <20121109190246.GD14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 02:10:03AM -0500, jim wrote:
> 
> > > Usually there is some arcane keystroke to cycle between the external
> > > video adapter, the internal screen, or both.
> > 
> > nvidia-settings no longer has support to change resolutions?
> Yes but none show up. The only resolution I see is 1440x900 for some
> strange reason.
> > 
> 
> > > 
> > > Does the Xorg.0.log file show any consideration of the setting in
> > > 10-monitor.conf?  For example, some hint of rejection?
> > 
> > Well xrandr used to not work with the nvidia driver.  I think they claim
> > to have fixed that, although I haven't tried yet.
> 
> I tried xrandr but haven't had any luck either. I'll try the nvidia
> forum and see if anyone has any thoughts over there.as to whats going
> on.

Well it seems you are not alone:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/202766/only-one-resolution-available-in-xorg-conf

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 15:19:36 2012
From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:19:36 -0500
Subject: Hosted E-mail services suggestions
Message-ID: <CABSLv--sZPcEsSxbW2zv2nUe9P5d1m4UHq64mXjHEW1YSGNSDw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am looking to move my personal e-mail off Gmail and I'm currently
looking for hosted (paid) e-mail providers, I'm open to hosting it
myself as well (VPS/Dedicated server).

I'm currently evaluating a few choices:
- Fastmail
- Office365 e-mail
- VPS (with Postfix + Dovecot) [already set up, just a matter of
changing MX records and making accounts]

Anyone have any thoughts on e-mail DIY versus paying someone to host it?
--
Sadiq S
O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 15:34:30 2012
From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:34:30 -0500
Subject: Hosted E-mail services suggestions
In-Reply-To: <CABSLv--sZPcEsSxbW2zv2nUe9P5d1m4UHq64mXjHEW1YSGNSDw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CABSLv--sZPcEsSxbW2zv2nUe9P5d1m4UHq64mXjHEW1YSGNSDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A50B86.2000806@gmail.com>

this for privacy issue, or domain issue?
note that gmail and MS services can host your email via "your" domain, 
and i believe its  free.
Unless you do it yourself, you have a privacy issue.
Do it yourself, and you have a administration issue.

I am conflicted in what to do as well, as having the email server down, 
and a cx getting a bounce back after 4 hours? not nice.
If you have a backup smtp and a dns set up for that, then hopefully 
99.9999999 uptime.

Can also have google have email for your domain, then have a private 
email server suck it of Google and not leave it there.
If your server goes down, at least it stays on google, until you fix the 
server.


-tl

On 11/15/2012 10:19 AM, Sadiq Saif wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am looking to move my personal e-mail off Gmail and I'm currently
> looking for hosted (paid) e-mail providers, I'm open to hosting it
> myself as well (VPS/Dedicated server).
>
> I'm currently evaluating a few choices:
> - Fastmail
> - Office365 e-mail
> - VPS (with Postfix + Dovecot) [already set up, just a matter of
> changing MX records and making accounts]
>
> Anyone have any thoughts on e-mail DIY versus paying someone to host it?
> --
> Sadiq S
> O<  ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 15:30:06 2012
From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:30:06 -0500
Subject: Hosted E-mail services suggestions
In-Reply-To: <CABSLv--sZPcEsSxbW2zv2nUe9P5d1m4UHq64mXjHEW1YSGNSDw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CABSLv--sZPcEsSxbW2zv2nUe9P5d1m4UHq64mXjHEW1YSGNSDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADK3HHLBOUj+Ro6MznG4OuHyDoGhpGr6veKFgmfbUVJVDq3ggg@mail.gmail.com>

Curious why you want to move away from gmail ?

My thought is that dealing with your own server is  PITA, you need at least
two to get any kind of redundancy and they should be in different hosting
centers

Dave

Dave Cramer


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Sadiq Saif <sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am looking to move my personal e-mail off Gmail and I'm currently
> looking for hosted (paid) e-mail providers, I'm open to hosting it
> myself as well (VPS/Dedicated server).
>
> I'm currently evaluating a few choices:
> - Fastmail
> - Office365 e-mail
> - VPS (with Postfix + Dovecot) [already set up, just a matter of
> changing MX records and making accounts]
>
> Anyone have any thoughts on e-mail DIY versus paying someone to host it?
> --
> Sadiq S
> O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 15:39:55 2012
From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 10:39:55 -0500
Subject: Hosted E-mail services suggestions
In-Reply-To: <50A50B86.2000806-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <CABSLv--sZPcEsSxbW2zv2nUe9P5d1m4UHq64mXjHEW1YSGNSDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <50A50B86.2000806@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABSLv--F7ETk-LxHUx_t0i+UvQaDQmbMbgZwbDDKM7ffmbW42A@mail.gmail.com>

> On 11/15/2012 10:19 AM, Sadiq Saif wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am looking to move my personal e-mail off Gmail and I'm currently
>> looking for hosted (paid) e-mail providers, I'm open to hosting it
>> myself as well (VPS/Dedicated server).
>>
>> I'm currently evaluating a few choices:
>> - Fastmail
>> - Office365 e-mail
>> - VPS (with Postfix + Dovecot) [already set up, just a matter of
>> changing MX records and making accounts]
>>
>> Anyone have any thoughts on e-mail DIY versus paying someone to host it?


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Ted <ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> this for privacy issue, or domain issue?
> note that gmail and MS services can host your email via "your" domain, and i
> believe its  free.
> Unless you do it yourself, you have a privacy issue.
> Do it yourself, and you have a administration issue.
>
> I am conflicted in what to do as well, as having the email server down, and
> a cx getting a bounce back after 4 hours? not nice.
> If you have a backup smtp and a dns set up for that, then hopefully
> 99.9999999 uptime.
>
> Can also have google have email for your domain, then have a private email
> server suck it of Google and not leave it there.
> If your server goes down, at least it stays on google, until you fix the
> server.
>
>
> -tl
>
>

Mostly a privacy issue. I believe the saying goes as such - "if you
are not paying for it, you are the product."

Though, it is true that paying someone is no guarantee of privacy.

About the administrative issue, I'm currently testing a self-hosted
setup with two MXes like so:
$ dig +short mx staticsafe.ca
mx1.staticsafe.ca
mx2.staticsafe.ca

If mx1 goes down for whatever reason, sending MTAs retry with mx2 and
mail spools there, and mx2 keeps trying to relay said mail back to
mx1, so I have my e-mail back when mx1 is up.
(mx1 is also my IMAP/POP server).

-- 
Sadiq S
O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 15:58:57 2012
From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hosted E-mail services suggestions
In-Reply-To: <CABSLv--sZPcEsSxbW2zv2nUe9P5d1m4UHq64mXjHEW1YSGNSDw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CABSLv--sZPcEsSxbW2zv2nUe9P5d1m4UHq64mXjHEW1YSGNSDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1352995137.37835.YahooMailNeo@web120801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>



----- Original Message -----
> From: Sadiq Saif <sadiq at asininetech.com>
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Cc: 
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:19:36 AM
> Subject: [TLUG]: Hosted E-mail services suggestions
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am looking to move my personal e-mail off Gmail and I'm currently
> looking for hosted (paid) e-mail providers, I'm open to hosting it
> myself as well (VPS/Dedicated server).
> 
> I'm currently evaluating a few choices:
> - Fastmail
> - Office365 e-mail
> - VPS (with Postfix + Dovecot) [already set up, just a matter of
> changing MX records and making accounts]
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on e-mail DIY versus paying someone to host it?
> --
> Sadiq S
> O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> 

Hello,

TL;DR: if you are paranoid with your privacy and/or like to do Linux sysadmin and don't mind losing some emails you can go self-hosted, otherwise I'd recommend outsourcing it.

Btw, any reason you don't like Gmail?

Self-hosting mail in a VPS is easy to start with; pretty much "apt-get install postfix dovecot", put in your domain name and pretty much you are good to go http://rimuhosting.com/support/settingupemail.jsp?mta=postfix . I've been doing sysadmin for a VPS provider and Postfix/dovecot was our combo of choice.

The first problem is spam although almost most of it usually goes away adding a one-liner RBL directive in the Postfix config file: https://gist.github.com/1870498

There are other configuration issues like setting yourself virtual domains, aliases, autoresponders etc, not hard once you know how to do them. Also if?you?want web-basedd mail you'd need to set it up too (Roundcube, Horde etc). It's?definitively?a good?exercise and?learning?experience.?

The biggest problem with hosting mail yourself is?deliverability. ?Due to spammers, mail servers (esp. the big providers like gmail, yahoo, hotmail) tend to reject or even worse drop silently emails coming from new mail servers and sometimes you can't even trust their mail server's responses so you're not sure what happened. There's a couple of things that help, like creating SPF DNS record, setting up reverse DNS etc but at the beginning expect some/many emails not to go through.

Also you have to do general syadmin like monitoring etc and worry about server uptime, random Denial of Service attacks etc. Again, not bad for learning.

For free (gmail etc) or cheaper than a VPS (for ex $2/month?http://www.rackspace.com/apps/email_hosting/rackspace_email/ ) you are?saving?yourself a lot of trouble if your email is very important.


Cheers,?

---------------------
Fernando Duran
http://www.fduran.com

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 16:31:00 2012
From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 11:31:00 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Sr. Linux Administrator
Message-ID: <CAFmOjKy+Afq-FSQo7wF-et+Z2cfKVdthaU40h4Jyvw4+V4+RhQ@mail.gmail.com>

Virgin Gaming is looking for a Sr. Linux Administrator.

As a Sr. System Administrator you will be responsible for day to day
management of the Virgin Gaming infrastructure (production, staging, QA,
development and corporate IT). This includes Linux Servers (CentOS), Load
Balancers, SAN/NAS, switches, routers and firewall gear. The software stack
includes Linux, Apache, Tomcat, PostgreSQL and Xen.

Duties and Responsibilities:
? Management of SANs, LUN and I/O performance tuning
? Knowledge of networking architectures and protocols and troubleshooting
tools, ethereal, Wireshark, etc
? Network and system performance tuning
? Working with Amazon Web Services
? Running cables, racking/building servers, and troubleshooting hardware
issues.
? Managing network devices including switches, routers, firewalls, VPNs,
load balancers, etc
? Participate in the on-call rotation for after -hours incident resolution

Requirements:
? 5+ years of progressive experience in system administration in a
distributed Unix/Linux environment
? Must have enterprise hands-on experience building, configuring and
maintaining a high-availability enterprise Linux environment utilizing
Apache, Tomcat, Postgres and Xen
? Has implemented CFengine, Puppet or Chef in a production environment
? Familiar with VMware/Xen virtulization
? Familiar with SVN, Nagios, Cacti, shell scripting, LDAP. We are open
source friendly.
? Experience with clustering and performance tuning databases, preferably
with PostgreSQL
? RHCE would be an asset
? A College diploma or University degree in computer science or engineering
or relevant job experience
? Excellent written and oral communication skills.

Interested?  Apply here:
http://virgingaming.com/corporate-information/careers/
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 16:55:29 2012
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 11:55:29 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Sr. Linux Administrator
In-Reply-To: <CAFmOjKy+Afq-FSQo7wF-et+Z2cfKVdthaU40h4Jyvw4+V4+RhQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAFmOjKy+Afq-FSQo7wF-et+Z2cfKVdthaU40h4Jyvw4+V4+RhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121115165529.GA16324@node1.opengeometry.net>

Wow, I had no idea Virgin Mobile is into gaming.
-- 
William

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:31:00AM -0500, Ijaaz A. Ullah wrote:
> Virgin Gaming is looking for a Sr. Linux Administrator.
> 
> As a Sr. System Administrator you will be responsible for day to day
> management of the Virgin Gaming infrastructure (production, staging, QA,
> development and corporate IT). This includes Linux Servers (CentOS), Load
> Balancers, SAN/NAS, switches, routers and firewall gear. The software stack
> includes Linux, Apache, Tomcat, PostgreSQL and Xen.
> 
> Duties and Responsibilities:
> ? Management of SANs, LUN and I/O performance tuning
> ? Knowledge of networking architectures and protocols and troubleshooting
> tools, ethereal, Wireshark, etc
> ? Network and system performance tuning
> ? Working with Amazon Web Services
> ? Running cables, racking/building servers, and troubleshooting hardware
> issues.
> ? Managing network devices including switches, routers, firewalls, VPNs,
> load balancers, etc
> ? Participate in the on-call rotation for after -hours incident resolution
> 
> Requirements:
> ? 5+ years of progressive experience in system administration in a
> distributed Unix/Linux environment
> ? Must have enterprise hands-on experience building, configuring and
> maintaining a high-availability enterprise Linux environment utilizing
> Apache, Tomcat, Postgres and Xen
> ? Has implemented CFengine, Puppet or Chef in a production environment
> ? Familiar with VMware/Xen virtulization
> ? Familiar with SVN, Nagios, Cacti, shell scripting, LDAP. We are open
> source friendly.
> ? Experience with clustering and performance tuning databases, preferably
> with PostgreSQL
> ? RHCE would be an asset
> ? A College diploma or University degree in computer science or engineering
> or relevant job experience
> ? Excellent written and oral communication skills.
> 
> Interested?  Apply here:
> http://virgingaming.com/corporate-information/careers/
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 16:59:35 2012
From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 11:59:35 -0500
Subject: Looking for a Sr. Linux Administrator
In-Reply-To: <20121115165529.GA16324-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAFmOjKy+Afq-FSQo7wF-et+Z2cfKVdthaU40h4Jyvw4+V4+RhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121115165529.GA16324@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <CAFmOjKxQa-+LLx8CHXi+oWatSBTv-KYVw229FGGpqs0PM0bPmA@mail.gmail.com>

Virgin Gaming


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:55 AM, William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>wrote:

> Wow, I had no idea Virgin Mobile is into gaming.
> --
> William
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 17:37:41 2012
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:37:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: avoid Intel GMA 600 more than you avoid GMA 500
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211151226060.11520@redclaw.mimosa.com>

I saw an open-box Atom-based HP tablet for a not-unreasonable price.  So I 
went to investigate what an HP Slate 2 Tablet is.

I found something that makes it very not interesting.  Its video chip is 
the Intel GMA 600.  That, like the infamous GMA 500, is based on the 
"PowerVR" from Imagination Technologies.  As such, Intel doesn't seem to 
be in control of the drivers.  But apparently the result is even worse 
that for the GMA 500.  Not only is Linux left in the lurch, but so is 
Win8, Android, and to a lesser extent, even Win7.

Read message 7 in this thread <http://communities.intel.com/thread/29943>

It suggests that Apple has some sort of exclusive license that precludes 
anything getting better for the GMA 600.  Of course such agreements are 
confidential, but the behaviour of Intel seems to support this guess.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 17:58:30 2012
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:58:30 -0500
Subject: avoid Intel GMA 600 more than you avoid GMA 500
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211151226060.11520-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211151226060.11520@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <CAFNqd5WcADGzWY_bOMi=NfU_5a-PJP1ZkzGA-2OH+rF6O928uQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:37 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
wrote:
>
> I saw an open-box Atom-based HP tablet for a not-unreasonable price.  So I
> went to investigate what an HP Slate 2 Tablet is.
>
> I found something that makes it very not interesting.  Its video chip is
> the Intel GMA 600.  That, like the infamous GMA 500, is based on the
> "PowerVR" from Imagination Technologies.  As such, Intel doesn't seem to
> be in control of the drivers.  But apparently the result is even worse
> that for the GMA 500.  Not only is Linux left in the lurch, but so is
> Win8, Android, and to a lesser extent, even Win7.
>
> Read message 7 in this thread <http://communities.intel.com/thread/29943>
>
> It suggests that Apple has some sort of exclusive license that precludes
> anything getting better for the GMA 600.  Of course such agreements are
> confidential, but the behaviour of Intel seems to support this guess.


So, what *is* supposed to be able to run well on these tablets?

It sounds as though *no* operating system is supportable.

- An HP tablet isn't going to run iOS, because Apple has long been out of
the relicensing biz
- Sounds like *all* versions of Windows are left in the lurch
  - Windows 7 isn't optimized, and HP presumably doesn't have drivers for
that
  - Ditto for Windows 8
- Possibly Android might work, though graphics wouldn't be impressive
- At one time they cared about WebOS, tho not these days...

There's not enough driver information available for Linux to get X11 (or
Wayland ;-)) working
well (or perhaps at all?), and presumably Google is just as "screwed"
vis-a-vis getting Android
(or ChromeOS, no doubt) working on it.

And this is quite incredibly dumb on Intel's part, as it makes it harder
for them to sell it.

If this is what Apple's using in iPads, then I suppose it's not troublesome
to them, as long
as they have a deal going so that they have deep access to drivers so it's
supportable for
them.

Nonetheless, it means that nobody should regard GMA 600 as a viable
product, whether
it's us, as Linux-preferring folk, or HP (who would presumably be happy
selling GMA 600
to run Android or Windows 8 on it), or [pick your other favorite tablet
builder].
-- 
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 19:22:29 2012
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 14:22:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hosted E-mail services suggestions
In-Reply-To: <CABSLv--F7ETk-LxHUx_t0i+UvQaDQmbMbgZwbDDKM7ffmbW42A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CABSLv--sZPcEsSxbW2zv2nUe9P5d1m4UHq64mXjHEW1YSGNSDw@mail.gmail.com> <50A50B86.2000806@gmail.com> <CABSLv--F7ETk-LxHUx_t0i+UvQaDQmbMbgZwbDDKM7ffmbW42A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211151400180.11520@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: Sadiq Saif <sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org>

| Mostly a privacy issue. I believe the saying goes as such - "if you
| are not paying for it, you are the product."
| 
| Though, it is true that paying someone is no guarantee of privacy.

Who knows what the Canadian governments' agencies do with email.  But
in the US, the Petraeus Affair shows how bad it is there.  No warrant,
no probable cause, no nothing.  They even read unsent gmail. 
<http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57550072-38/petraeus-e-mail-affair-highlights-u.s-privacy-law-loopholes/>
<http://www.livescience.com/24737-petraeus-email-trail.html>

I've run my own mail server, in my home, for 30 years.  It isn't
optimal.  But neither are the other choices.

If I really cared about privacy, I'd use PGP.  But that is even more
bother.

(The same apparently-overreaching FBI agent used a questionable hunch to 
catch y2k bomber Ahmed Ressam so I have to admit that not all dubious 
techniques have bad outcomes 
<http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20121115_ap_fbiagentinpetraeusscandalwasseenasahero.html>.)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 20:01:09 2012
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:01:09 -0500
Subject: avoid Intel GMA 600 more than you avoid GMA 500
In-Reply-To: <CAFNqd5WcADGzWY_bOMi=NfU_5a-PJP1ZkzGA-2OH+rF6O928uQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211151226060.11520@redclaw.mimosa.com>
 <CAFNqd5WcADGzWY_bOMi=NfU_5a-PJP1ZkzGA-2OH+rF6O928uQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121115200109.GA11196@waltdnes.org>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:58:30PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote

> So, what *is* supposed to be able to run well on these tablets?
> 
> It sounds as though *no* operating system is supportable.
> 
> - An HP tablet isn't going to run iOS, because Apple has long been out of
> the relicensing biz
> - Sounds like *all* versions of Windows are left in the lurch
>   - Windows 7 isn't optimized, and HP presumably doesn't have drivers for
> that
>   - Ditto for Windows 8
> - Possibly Android might work, though graphics wouldn't be impressive
> - At one time they cared about WebOS, tho not these days...
> 
> There's not enough driver information available for Linux to get X11
> (or Wayland ;-)) working well (or perhaps at all?), and presumably
> Google is just as "screwed" vis-a-vis getting Android (or ChromeOS,
> no doubt) working on it.

  Ironically, Gentoo Linux is in about the best position to take
advantage of this chip, given that we can tweak our kernels.  I have an
older Atom with a a "Poulsbo" GMA500 and here's how my kernel is set up
in "make menuconfig"...

Device Drivers  --->
    Graphics support  --->
    <*> Direct Rendering Manager (XFree86 4.1.0 and higher DRI suppor
        <*>   Intel GMA5/600 KMS Framebuffer
        [ ]     Intel GMA600 support (Experimental)
        [ ]     Intel GMA3600/3650 support (Experimental)

  Since I have a GMA500, I haven't enabled the GMA600 support.  See
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/58557 for
more details.  If this driver is available for Linux, I assume it's
available in Android.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
We are apparently better off trying to avoid udev like the plague.
Linus Torvalds; 2012/10/03 https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/10/3/349
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 20:27:27 2012
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:27:27 -0500
Subject: Effect on speed of comments in bash script loops?
Message-ID: <20121115202727.GB11196@waltdnes.org>

  Assume a bash script crunching through a large text file, with an
inner loop that gets called a lot.  I like to heavily comment complex
scripts, so 6 months later I don't have to spend days trying to figure
out what they do.  Are the comments parsed+discarded on each pass
through the loop?  If necessary, I could keep a commented "master"
script and an uncommented "working" script, like so...

echo '#!/bin/bash' > working
grep -v "^#" master >> working
chmod 744 working

  The working script would execute the same as the commented master
script, but possibly faster.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
We are apparently better off trying to avoid udev like the plague.
Linus Torvalds; 2012/10/03 https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/10/3/349
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 20:37:13 2012
From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:37:13 -0500
Subject: Effect on speed of comments in bash script loops?
In-Reply-To: <20121115202727.GB11196-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20121115202727.GB11196@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <CAEx-jsPUsEqOAx3h+kh4zfdF9=dk1he28yK3bRPhDk6vAGY9Ng@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>   Assume a bash script crunching through a large text file, with an
> inner loop that gets called a lot.  I like to heavily comment complex
> scripts, so 6 months later I don't have to spend days trying to figure
> out what they do.  Are the comments parsed+discarded on each pass
> through the loop?  If necessary, I could keep a commented "master"
> script and an uncommented "working" script, like so...
>
> echo '#!/bin/bash' > working
> grep -v "^#" master >> working
> chmod 744 working
>
>   The working script would execute the same as the commented master
> script, but possibly faster.

i pretty sure there'll be better answers from more knowledgeable folks
but I'm curious... is there a noticeable difference in execution
times?

time /path/to/master
time /path/to/working

-- 
  Scott Elcomb
  @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more

  Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
  http://code.google.com/p/atomos/

  Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
  http://www.pirateparty.ca/
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 20:48:47 2012
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:48:47 -0500
Subject: avoid Intel GMA 600 more than you avoid GMA 500
In-Reply-To: <20121115200109.GA11196-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211151226060.11520@redclaw.mimosa.com>
 <CAFNqd5WcADGzWY_bOMi=NfU_5a-PJP1ZkzGA-2OH+rF6O928uQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121115200109.GA11196@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <20121115204847.GE14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 03:01:09PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   Ironically, Gentoo Linux is in about the best position to take
> advantage of this chip, given that we can tweak our kernels.  I have an
> older Atom with a a "Poulsbo" GMA500 and here's how my kernel is set up
> in "make menuconfig"...
> 
> Device Drivers  --->
>     Graphics support  --->
>     <*> Direct Rendering Manager (XFree86 4.1.0 and higher DRI suppor
>         <*>   Intel GMA5/600 KMS Framebuffer
>         [ ]     Intel GMA600 support (Experimental)
>         [ ]     Intel GMA3600/3650 support (Experimental)
> 
>   Since I have a GMA500, I haven't enabled the GMA600 support.  See
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/58557 for
> more details.  If this driver is available for Linux, I assume it's
> available in Android.

Any distribution can turn on experimental drivers if they want, and
many do.  What does gentoo have to do with it?

Also having a framebuffer that is terribly slow isn't necessarily much
better than use a vesa frame buffer or whatever currently works on that
annoying chip.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 20:50:20 2012
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:50:20 -0500
Subject: Effect on speed of comments in bash script loops?
In-Reply-To: <CAEx-jsPUsEqOAx3h+kh4zfdF9=dk1he28yK3bRPhDk6vAGY9Ng-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20121115202727.GB11196@waltdnes.org>
 <CAEx-jsPUsEqOAx3h+kh4zfdF9=dk1he28yK3bRPhDk6vAGY9Ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121115205020.GF14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 03:37:13PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote:
> i pretty sure there'll be better answers from more knowledgeable folks
> but I'm curious... is there a noticeable difference in execution
> times?
> 
> time /path/to/master
> time /path/to/working

I highly doubt there is any difference.  If the script was totally
linear and had no loops, then perhaps it would take slightly longer to go
through the one with comments since there is more script to parse through.
Add a loop though, and I doubt it matters anymore.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 15 21:18:09 2012
From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 16:18:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Effect on speed of comments in bash script loops?
In-Reply-To: <20121115202727.GB11196-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20121115202727.GB11196@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LMD.2.00.1211151614290.11106@cjlocal.com>

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012, Walter Dnes wrote:

>  Assume a bash script crunching through a large text file, with an
> inner loop that gets called a lot.  I like to heavily comment complex
> scripts, so 6 months later I don't have to spend days trying to figure
> out what they do.  Are the comments parsed+discarded on each pass
> through the loop?  If necessary, I could keep a commented "master"
> script and an uncommented "working" script, like so...
>
> echo '#!/bin/bash' > working
> grep -v "^#" master >> working
> chmod 744 working
>
>  The working script would execute the same as the commented master
> script, but possibly faster.

     Crunching through a large text file with a loop is inefficient to
     begin with. Comments are not going to make any difference.

     The following two loops execute with no more than a millisecond
     difference between them -- and sometimes the commented version is
     the faster. Other goings on in your computer will make more
     difference than the comments.

time for n in {1..10000}
do
   :
   :
   :
done

time for n in {1..10000}
do
   : ### commented
   : ### commented
   : ### commented
done

-- 
    Chris F.A. Johnson, <http://cfajohnson.com/>
    Author:
    Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
--
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov 16 02:10:15 2012
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:10:15 -0500
Subject: avoid Intel GMA 600 more than you avoid GMA 500
In-Reply-To: <20121115204847.GE14557-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211151226060.11520@redclaw.mimosa.com>
 <CAFNqd5WcADGzWY_bOMi=NfU_5a-PJP1ZkzGA-2OH+rF6O928uQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121115200109.GA11196@waltdnes.org>
 <20121115204847.GE14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20121116021015.GA11825@waltdnes.org>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 03:48:47PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote

> Also having a framebuffer that is terribly slow isn't necessarily
> much better than use a vesa frame buffer or whatever currently works
> on that annoying chip.

  Virtually all linux video drivers are now framebuffer-based.  And
having used the netbook with VESA and kernel-mode GMA500 drivers, I can
assure you that the GMA500 driver is much, much faster.  See the tests
with Youtube videos that I mentioned in the thread I referenced.  Not to
mention that it does native 1366x768 mode versus VESA's 1024x768.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
We are apparently better off trying to avoid udev like the plague.
Linus Torvalds; 2012/10/03 https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/10/3/349
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov 16 16:24:23 2012
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:24:23 -0500
Subject: avoid Intel GMA 600 more than you avoid GMA 500
In-Reply-To: <20121116021015.GA11825-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211151226060.11520@redclaw.mimosa.com>
 <CAFNqd5WcADGzWY_bOMi=NfU_5a-PJP1ZkzGA-2OH+rF6O928uQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121115200109.GA11196@waltdnes.org>
 <20121115204847.GE14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <20121116021015.GA11825@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <20121116162423.GG14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 09:10:15PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   Virtually all linux video drivers are now framebuffer-based.  And
> having used the netbook with VESA and kernel-mode GMA500 drivers, I can
> assure you that the GMA500 driver is much, much faster.  See the tests
> with Youtube videos that I mentioned in the thread I referenced.  Not to
> mention that it does native 1366x768 mode versus VESA's 1024x768.

Well a lot of the framebuffer drivers have some acceleration for text
drawing and scrolling and such.  The vesa one probably is about as bad
as they get.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Nov 17 02:16:51 2012
From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 21:16:51 -0500
Subject: Free router distro for my dir-825 (w/Access Control for https!)
Message-ID: <CAN_Dec-De-_gPc4Spgbkj0+Xe39mnN8phoezW5ZUjwYOLBwGTw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm replacing my old WRT54GL router with a D-link DIR-825.  I run Tomato on
the WRT but
(1) tomato doesn't sem to support the dir-825, and
(2) I've been having trouble lately with access control policies on the
tomato -- in particular, it doesn't seem to filter https:// packets; and as
most of thee services I want to control access to (Facebook, GMail,
Youtube...) run on https, this is a major issue for me.

so:

-- anyone out there use other router firmware (openwrt, dd-wrt, etc)?  What
do you like about it?  easy to use is a BIG plus for me.
-- anyone have suggestions for filtering https?  My kids are turning into
zombies, and yet they need the Internet to do their homework! It's driving
me crazy!  Seriously, my hair is much greyer than it was a month ago, i
think facebook is going to kill me.

Thanks,

Matt
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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Nov 17 16:35:18 2012
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 11:35:18 -0500
Subject: OT: Key moments that shaped the press
In-Reply-To: <CAE9rU+6PD0BOZFJu=XihybkexwxXAamWdzEsO0EShHX76q9y-Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAE9rU+6PD0BOZFJu=XihybkexwxXAamWdzEsO0EShHX76q9y-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAE9rU+7Af1S6nX7o3X0eCb1twOY6+cOGvKs=SmrMo-fc4XomtA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

This don't have anything to do with Linux but petty entertaining story on
something we now take for granted - publishing.

Its just amazing how far publishing has evolved now that everybody can
write hundreds of people something that was illegal just a couple of
centuries ago

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20350074

William
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From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov 19 03:06:03 2012
From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:06:03 -0500
Subject: avoid Intel GMA 600 more than you avoid GMA 500
In-Reply-To: <20121115204847.GE14557-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211151226060.11520@redclaw.mimosa.com>
 <CAFNqd5WcADGzWY_bOMi=NfU_5a-PJP1ZkzGA-2OH+rF6O928uQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121115200109.GA11196@waltdnes.org>
 <20121115204847.GE14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20121119030603.GQ27746@adb.ca>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 03:01:09PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
> >   Ironically, Gentoo Linux is in about the best position to take
> > advantage of this chip, given that we can tweak our kernels.  ...
> 
> Any distribution can turn on experimental drivers if they want, and
> many do.  What does gentoo have to do with it?

Mostly, I think, that Gentoo's idea of kernel distribution is to give
you the /usr/src/linux tree and gcc.  Most other distros would rather you
used the binary kernels and modules they package, and one feels faintly
disloyal building one's own contrary to upstream's wishes.

I do wryly point out that having all of the kernel configuration options
spread out is a field ripe for discovering iteratively that one needed to
pick a different option and rebuild the whole thing yet again and again. 
:-\

> Also having a framebuffer that is terribly slow isn't necessarily much
> better than use a vesa frame buffer or whatever currently works on that
> annoying chip.

All Hardware Sucks, video cards doubly so.  I'd be greatly encouraged if
there were some current maker whose stuff Just Worked with Linux with
open drivers that weren't slow and/or buggy and all, so I could go out of
my way to buy their hardware, but the current field looks like one is in
for pain in all directions.

-- 
Anthony de Boer
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov 19 18:08:24 2012
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:08:24 -0500
Subject: Free router distro for my dir-825 (w/Access Control for
 https!)
In-Reply-To: <CAN_Dec-De-_gPc4Spgbkj0+Xe39mnN8phoezW5ZUjwYOLBwGTw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAN_Dec-De-_gPc4Spgbkj0+Xe39mnN8phoezW5ZUjwYOLBwGTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50AA7598.7010801@utoronto.ca>

On 16/11/12 09:16 PM, Matt Price wrote:
> I'm replacing my old WRT54GL router with a D-link DIR-825.  I run Tomato on
> the WRT but
> (1) tomato doesn't sem to support the dir-825, and
> (2) I've been having trouble lately with access control policies on the
> tomato -- in particular, it doesn't seem to filter https:// packets; and as
> most of thee services I want to control access to (Facebook, GMail,
> Youtube...) run on https, this is a major issue for me.
> 
> so:
> 
> -- anyone out there use other router firmware (openwrt, dd-wrt, etc)?  What
> do you like about it?  easy to use is a BIG plus for me.

I like OpenWRT on my DIR-825. The initial flashing process is stupid
(Dlink's recovery interface sucks and you have to use it iirc), but once
the firmware is installed it works nicely.

It is solid, gives a basic gui with https for remote access, and has a
large repository of available packages to install. I'm currently
considering moving to a local unbound resolver on the router so that I
don't have to use my ISP/google's DNS servers.

> -- anyone have suggestions for filtering https?  My kids are turning into
> zombies, and yet they need the Internet to do their homework! It's driving
> me crazy!  Seriously, my hair is much greyer than it was a month ago, i
> think facebook is going to kill me.

http://mitmproxy.org/ might be what you're after. Combine that with your
smoothwall or something and you ought to be able to have pretty granular
control over what/when/how your kids access the internet with minimal
supervision.

Cheers, Jamon

--
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov 20 00:22:33 2012
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:22:33 -0500
Subject: Database Diversity
In-Reply-To: <1348533591.557727652-0ZYIasU8DW2IAIbY1eLdq9BPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAFNqd5VU9b27bL8BDuPQH2GZ4k+We8pF=AeXq4AEoiQGqQa=qA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1348533591.557727652@apps.rackspace.com>
Message-ID: <CAFNqd5WUK09JdTb3B_LrpN79dipRTHwhqQwB9gr7dHSipBvHeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Wondering if you'd be willing to be part of the December "Database Panel."

I have assembled a set of questions on the Wiki...
http://gtalug.org/wiki/Talk:Meetings:2012-12

If you think there are interesting questions to add or to focus on, by all
means, feel free to suggest improvements.  We want this to have a view to
being a lively discussion between users of various systems, so pointing out
particular areas of strength is a fine thing.


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 8:39 PM, <erik.levinson-IaPBhvjdSnNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> We're running MySQL, InfoBright, Postgresql, and soon MongoDB. We have
> over 600 million records in a single table and are adding millions per day,
> so while this isn't huge, it's not too small either.
>
> Erik
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Christopher Browne" <cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:03pm
> To: "TLUG Mailing List" <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> Subject: [TLUG]: Database Diversity
>
>  The exec has been musing about the idea of doing a panel on databases
> We know we have some people we can poke at for comments about CouchDB,
> Postgres, likely DB2.
>
> We're wondering if there are folks out there with involvement with
> other databases. Thoughts include MongoDB (for maximum "Web Scale"!
> :-)), Cassandra, perhaps Bloated Goats, I mean, Lotus Notes, perhaps
> some of the Oracle-owned databases, perhaps RDB :-).
> --
> When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
> question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>



-- 
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov 20 17:24:39 2012
From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:24:39 -0500
Subject: Intel video
Message-ID: <CAGvW9WdGRPC0244cuNNFx3EmJuNL1mn+b2mvvAiZBsWeqRPkqw@mail.gmail.com>

Is it possible to buy an Intel video card in a box? I want to play
around with OSTree [https://live.gnome.org/OSTree] but X doesn't
launch with my nVidia PCI-E card or my onboard AMD video. (It *is*
known to work with Intel.)

I'm in Mississauga, and the local NCIX and Canada Computers don't seem
to sell cards with anything other than AMD or nVidia chips.

Thanks,

Mike
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov 20 18:00:11 2012
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:00:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Intel video
In-Reply-To: <CAGvW9WdGRPC0244cuNNFx3EmJuNL1mn+b2mvvAiZBsWeqRPkqw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAGvW9WdGRPC0244cuNNFx3EmJuNL1mn+b2mvvAiZBsWeqRPkqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211201236080.18913@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: Michael Hill <mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>

| Is it possible to buy an Intel video card in a box?

No.  The last (only?) time they made video cards was the Intel 740, as
far as I recall <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel740>.  That was in
the previous millenium.

They were going to try again with Larrabee 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrabee_%28microarchitecture%29>
but they cancelled it.  Interestingly, part of that design lives on in the 
Intel MIC that is just appearing, but it isn't a video card 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_MIC>

| I want to play
| around with OSTree [https://live.gnome.org/OSTree] but X doesn't
| launch with my nVidia PCI-E card or my onboard AMD video. (It *is*
| known to work with Intel.)

I take it that the isssue is with X and has nothing in particular to do
with OSTree.

Many folks use nVidia or AMD video controllers (I have systems with
each).  There are some quirks with particular cards but few
show-stoppers.  If you are a lot more specific about your system and
the symptoms we might be able to help you.

Which distro are you using?  There are distro-specific fora on the 
internet that are really good at capturing folk's problems and solutions.  
Only a google away.  (TLUG is a smaller pool so perhaps none of us has hit 
the problems that are blocking you.)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov 20 19:26:24 2012
From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:26:24 -0500
Subject: Intel video
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211201236080.18913-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAGvW9WdGRPC0244cuNNFx3EmJuNL1mn+b2mvvAiZBsWeqRPkqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.LRH.2.02.1211201236080.18913@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <CAGvW9Wd60+LAFV-7q1ixc8DFDrWaHLnVxAcfU38-+BikTFTjsA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Hugh. I'll stop looking.

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:00 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I take it that the isssue is with X and has nothing in particular to do
> with OSTree.

My understanding is OSTree is similar to jhbuild in that it uses the
kernel and X setup of the host system, but runs the latest "system"
(in this case GNOME) by mounting a different root directory where the
latest binaries have been installed. Colin Walters, the developer,
suspects an issue with llvmpipe mesa, and admits, "To be honest I only
boot natively on Intel hardware right now."

> Which distro are you using?  There are distro-specific fora on the
> internet that are really good at capturing folk's problems and solutions.
> Only a google away.  (TLUG is a smaller pool so perhaps none of us has hit
> the problems that are blocking you.)

I had jhbuild running pretty well on openSUSE (ThinkPad with AMD CPU
and video) before I inadvertently wiped it out and needed to
reinstall. I also have Mageia Cauldron running on the same hardware,
and Ubuntu on my big old ThinkPad with nVidia. For OSTree I'm using
Fedora 18 on the aforementioned desktop machine. I think I've figured
out the Grub 2 grub.cfg customizations, listed in the troubleshooting
notes (OSTree/GnomeOSTree and OSTree/CommonIssues pages), necessary to
boot... I get as far as these messages in console 1:

[ OK ] Started Login Service.
[ OK ] Reached target Multi-User.
[ OK ] Started GNOME Display Manager.
[ OK ] Reached target Graphical Interface.

Nothing else is there but login prompts on consoles 2 through 6. The
next step is to log in and read the contents of
/var/log/gdm/:0-greeter.log.

Mike
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov 20 19:52:25 2012
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:52:25 -0500
Subject: Intel video
In-Reply-To: <CAGvW9WdGRPC0244cuNNFx3EmJuNL1mn+b2mvvAiZBsWeqRPkqw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAGvW9WdGRPC0244cuNNFx3EmJuNL1mn+b2mvvAiZBsWeqRPkqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121120195225.GH14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:24:39PM -0500, Michael Hill wrote:
> Is it possible to buy an Intel video card in a box? I want to play
> around with OSTree [https://live.gnome.org/OSTree] but X doesn't
> launch with my nVidia PCI-E card or my onboard AMD video. (It *is*
> known to work with Intel.)
> 
> I'm in Mississauga, and the local NCIX and Canada Computers don't seem
> to sell cards with anything other than AMD or nVidia chips.

Intel only does onboard video built in to the chipset/cpu.  They many
years ago made the i740, which was a disaster.  They stopped trying.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov 20 19:57:58 2012
From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:57:58 -0500
Subject: Intel video
In-Reply-To: <20121120195225.GH14557-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAGvW9WdGRPC0244cuNNFx3EmJuNL1mn+b2mvvAiZBsWeqRPkqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121120195225.GH14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <CAGvW9WdxgRux5nFR3qT6D-opgOKyRhYZYzzVZMAQzhAafLsW7A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Lennart Sorensen
<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Intel only does onboard video built in to the chipset/cpu.  They many
> years ago made the i740, which was a disaster.  They stopped trying.

So what I really need is a motherboard.
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Nov 20 23:17:25 2012
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 18:17:25 -0500
Subject: Intel video
In-Reply-To: <CAGvW9WdxgRux5nFR3qT6D-opgOKyRhYZYzzVZMAQzhAafLsW7A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAGvW9WdGRPC0244cuNNFx3EmJuNL1mn+b2mvvAiZBsWeqRPkqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20121120195225.GH14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <CAGvW9WdxgRux5nFR3qT6D-opgOKyRhYZYzzVZMAQzhAafLsW7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121120231725.GI14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 02:57:58PM -0500, Michael Hill wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Lennart Sorensen
> <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> > Intel only does onboard video built in to the chipset/cpu.  They many
> > years ago made the i740, which was a disaster.  They stopped trying.
> 
> So what I really need is a motherboard.

And cpu with support for it.

That's the tricky bit.  Only Core i3 and some i5 chips have a video core.
Without it, the video connector on the mainboard won't work.  That is
not how things were in the past.  I don't believe any desktop i7 chips
have video, and I don't think the quad core i5s do either.  I think only
dual core i3 and i5 chips have video cores.

For some reason you can get onboard intel video with a quad core i7
mobile chip in a laptop though.  Not sure whether they are done
differently or not.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Nov 21 12:06:29 2012
From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:06:29 -0500
Subject: Intel video
In-Reply-To: <20121120231725.GI14557-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAGvW9WdGRPC0244cuNNFx3EmJuNL1mn+b2mvvAiZBsWeqRPkqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121120195225.GH14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	<CAGvW9WdxgRux5nFR3qT6D-opgOKyRhYZYzzVZMAQzhAafLsW7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121120231725.GI14557@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <CAGvW9WeJJK7hv-bOQBM_gwEaRfqZ+nrvFt3J7fFLEEBPg9H+KA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 6:17 PM, Lennart Sorensen
<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> That's the tricky bit.  Only Core i3 and some i5 chips have a video core.

Thanks, Lennart. I'll try the qemu method first.

Mike
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Nov 21 16:43:32 2012
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 11:43:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Intel video
In-Reply-To: <CAGvW9Wd60+LAFV-7q1ixc8DFDrWaHLnVxAcfU38-+BikTFTjsA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAGvW9WdGRPC0244cuNNFx3EmJuNL1mn+b2mvvAiZBsWeqRPkqw@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211201236080.18913@redclaw.mimosa.com> <CAGvW9Wd60+LAFV-7q1ixc8DFDrWaHLnVxAcfU38-+BikTFTjsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211211138550.26962@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: Michael Hill <mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>

| My understanding is OSTree is similar to jhbuild in that it uses the
| kernel and X setup of the host system, but runs the latest "system"
| (in this case GNOME) by mounting a different root directory where the
| latest binaries have been installed. Colin Walters, the developer,
| suspects an issue with llvmpipe mesa, and admits, "To be honest I only
| boot natively on Intel hardware right now."

I don't know anything about OSTree or jhbuild beyond what you say in
your messages.  So you are probably way ahead of me on this.

It sounds as if OSTree depends on userland to start up but then
switches the system to an arbitrarily different userland.  That sounds
pretty tricky.  Kind of like a cartoon character that is sawing off
the tree branch he is standing on.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Nov 21 18:29:11 2012
From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:29:11 -0500
Subject: Free router distro for my dir-825 (w/Access Control for https!)
In-Reply-To: <50AA7598.7010801-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAN_Dec-De-_gPc4Spgbkj0+Xe39mnN8phoezW5ZUjwYOLBwGTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<50AA7598.7010801@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAN_Dec__B8ZgEuUQvMBHYxmeSWd0ydeuFkf2NX4rfRUP0U1xfQ@mail.gmail.com>

thans both Jamon and Michael. We've actually had the wireless network
just turned off for the last couple of days, so my emailing has slowed
down! Sorry for the delay.

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Jamon Camisso
<jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On 16/11/12 09:16 PM, Matt Price wrote:
>> I'm replacing my old WRT54GL router with a D-link DIR-825.  I run Tomato on
>> the WRT but
>> (1) tomato doesn't sem to support the dir-825, and
>> (2) I've been having trouble lately with access control policies on the
>> tomato -- in particular, it doesn't seem to filter https:// packets; and as
>> most of thee services I want to control access to (Facebook, GMail,
>> Youtube...) run on https, this is a major issue for me.
>>
>> so:
>>
>> -- anyone out there use other router firmware (openwrt, dd-wrt, etc)?  What
>> do you like about it?  easy to use is a BIG plus for me.
>
> I like OpenWRT on my DIR-825. The initial flashing process is stupid
> (Dlink's recovery interface sucks and you have to use it iirc), but once
> the firmware is installed it works nicely.
>
> It is solid, gives a basic gui with https for remote access, and has a
> large repository of available packages to install. I'm currently
> considering moving to a local unbound resolver on the router so that I
> don't have to use my ISP/google's DNS servers.

OK, that sells me, I'll give it a try.
>
>> -- anyone have suggestions for filtering https?  My kids are turning into
>> zombies, and yet they need the Internet to do their homework! It's driving
>> me crazy!  Seriously, my hair is much greyer than it was a month ago, i
>> think facebook is going to kill me.
>
> http://mitmproxy.org/ might be what you're after. Combine that with your
> smoothwall or something and you ought to be able to have pretty granular
> control over what/when/how your kids access the internet with minimal
> supervision.

I took a look at the mitmproxy website and still don't quite
understand how I'd work it.  Traffic on my network goes directly from
the wireless router to the modem -- so I would run mitmproxy on the
router, I guess, under openwrt?  My daughter, for instance, has an
older windows laptop and a newish android phone -- any access
restrictions/firewalling would have to be on the router as I don't
really have access to those machines.

>
> Cheers, Jamon
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Nov 21 19:12:21 2012
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:12:21 -0500
Subject: Free router distro for my dir-825 (w/Access Control for
 https!)
In-Reply-To: <CAN_Dec__B8ZgEuUQvMBHYxmeSWd0ydeuFkf2NX4rfRUP0U1xfQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAN_Dec-De-_gPc4Spgbkj0+Xe39mnN8phoezW5ZUjwYOLBwGTw@mail.gmail.com> <50AA7598.7010801@utoronto.ca> <CAN_Dec__B8ZgEuUQvMBHYxmeSWd0ydeuFkf2NX4rfRUP0U1xfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50AD2795.8080302@utoronto.ca>

On 21/11/12 01:29 PM, Matt Price wrote:
>>> -- anyone have suggestions for filtering https?  My kids are turning into
>>> zombies, and yet they need the Internet to do their homework! It's driving
>>> me crazy!  Seriously, my hair is much greyer than it was a month ago, i
>>> think facebook is going to kill me.
>>
>> http://mitmproxy.org/ might be what you're after. Combine that with your
>> smoothwall or something and you ought to be able to have pretty granular
>> control over what/when/how your kids access the internet with minimal
>> supervision.
> 
> I took a look at the mitmproxy website and still don't quite
> understand how I'd work it.  Traffic on my network goes directly from
> the wireless router to the modem -- so I would run mitmproxy on the
> router, I guess, under openwrt?  My daughter, for instance, has an
> older windows laptop and a newish android phone -- any access
> restrictions/firewalling would have to be on the router as I don't
> really have access to those machines.

I'm assuming you can have a machine somewhere on your network. You'd
then setup a transparent proxy in a configuration like the following:

Android client device
        |
      Wifi (lan)
        |
     OpenWRT (lan) -> mitm proxy ->
        |                         |
     OpenWRT (wan) <---------------
        |
    Internet

See this for a basic recipe:
http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/uci/firewall#transparent.proxy.rule.external

Jamon
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From paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org  Thu Nov 22 17:31:06 2012
From: paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:31:06 -0500
Subject: Free router distro for my dir-825 (w/Access Control for https!)
In-Reply-To: <CAN_Dec-De-_gPc4Spgbkj0+Xe39mnN8phoezW5ZUjwYOLBwGTw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAN_Dec-De-_gPc4Spgbkj0+Xe39mnN8phoezW5ZUjwYOLBwGTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKZZad2aACJ47NH_OE59nOLp03xt_guFbCBJumWqsaaWLOAmQw@mail.gmail.com>

I run DD-WRT on my DIR-825 a few months ago and so far, it works great.
I've also installed it on the WRT54G I replaced it with, and use it as a
wireless client bridge to give a couple of machines in a remote room
network access (saves me from having to buy wireless cards for them and to
drill holes in the wall to run ethernet cables).

pm

-- 
*Paul Mora*
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov 23 07:50:14 2012
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 02:50:14 -0500
Subject: Free router distro for my dir-825 (w/Access Control for
 https!)
In-Reply-To: <CAKZZad2aACJ47NH_OE59nOLp03xt_guFbCBJumWqsaaWLOAmQw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAN_Dec-De-_gPc4Spgbkj0+Xe39mnN8phoezW5ZUjwYOLBwGTw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKZZad2aACJ47NH_OE59nOLp03xt_guFbCBJumWqsaaWLOAmQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121123075014.GA10452@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 12:31:06PM -0500, Paul Mora wrote:
> I run DD-WRT on my DIR-825 a few months ago and so far, it works great.
> I've also installed it on the WRT54G I replaced it with, and use it as a
> wireless client bridge to give a couple of machines in a remote room
> network access (saves me from having to buy wireless cards for them and to
> drill holes in the wall to run ethernet cables).

Hi Paul,

Did you do anything special on your main router to get "wireless bridge"
working?  I bought TP-Link TL-WDR4300 router because it (like most
TP-Link routers) advertised "wireless bridge" function, but I still
can't get it to bridge to main router's network.
-- 
William
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org  Fri Nov 23 15:13:15 2012
From: paul-HzDep54A8sA at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:13:15 -0500
Subject: Free router distro for my dir-825 (w/Access Control for https!)
In-Reply-To: <20121123075014.GA10452-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAN_Dec-De-_gPc4Spgbkj0+Xe39mnN8phoezW5ZUjwYOLBwGTw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKZZad2aACJ47NH_OE59nOLp03xt_guFbCBJumWqsaaWLOAmQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121123075014.GA10452@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <CAKZZad1o-f69kxeScovXu3i3v3K9PA3Zij38ZPWZHKLcsE1eoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi William.

On the main router, I did nothing. Originally I wanted to set up WDS
between the two but after reading the doc and seeing the limitations (half
the bandwidth, no WPA support) I gave up on it.

On the second router (the bridge) I gave it a static IP outside of my DHCP
client range, then configured the wireless adapter in "client bridge" mode.
Entered the SID and WPA password and BOOM it all started working.

pm

-- 
*Paul Mora*
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From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Nov 24 04:18:52 2012
From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:18:52 -0500
Subject: System testing
Message-ID: <CAEnxSC5DM25w_vxcgOPdN9JcmfQ=ekJRsnpO0G_1dccboVYU8Q@mail.gmail.com>

I have an older system - Gigabyte motherboard, Core 2 quad processor.  It
was my desktop up until a couple months ago - but it had become
progressively more unstable and daily crashes were the norm.  Now I have a
new desktop and I'm willing to subject the old system to any and all tests
to determine what's wrong - I'd like to continue to use it.

About the only thing I _have_ tested is memory with memtest86+, and this
doesn't appear to be the problem (although I'm impatient and should
probably run it longer than an hour).  I've downloaded UBCD, StressLinux,
and some others - but don't entirely know what to do with them.

So I'm hoping the list can tell me what tests to run and in what order,
what to look for, and how to interpret results.  Most of my experience has
been with fairly obvious problems - ie. this is a network card problem,
this is a bad stick of RAM - and I really couldn't see a pattern or
probable cause to the random crashes.

Thanks in advance.
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From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Nov 24 04:24:31 2012
From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:24:31 -0500
Subject: System testing
In-Reply-To: <CAEnxSC5DM25w_vxcgOPdN9JcmfQ=ekJRsnpO0G_1dccboVYU8Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAEnxSC5DM25w_vxcgOPdN9JcmfQ=ekJRsnpO0G_1dccboVYU8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50B04BFF.6080008@sobac.com>

Take the cover off the case and see if you have any popped capacitors.
Bad caps can result in all kinds of intermittent, non-reproducible
behaviour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Generally, capacitors can be replaced and the motherboard is as good as
new.  But it's a finicky job, and often the affected motherboards are
old enough that you'd want to replace them with something shinier anyway.

--Bob.


Bob Jonkman <bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>         http://sobac.com/sobac/
SOBAC Microcomputer Services              Phone: +1-519-669-0388
6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada  N3B 1L5  Cell: +1-519-635-9413
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting



On 12-11-23 11:18 PM, Giles Orr wrote:
> I have an older system - Gigabyte motherboard, Core 2 quad processor.  It
> was my desktop up until a couple months ago - but it had become
> progressively more unstable and daily crashes were the norm.  Now I have a
> new desktop and I'm willing to subject the old system to any and all tests
> to determine what's wrong - I'd like to continue to use it.
> 
> About the only thing I _have_ tested is memory with memtest86+, and this
> doesn't appear to be the problem (although I'm impatient and should
> probably run it longer than an hour).  I've downloaded UBCD, StressLinux,
> and some others - but don't entirely know what to do with them.
> 
> So I'm hoping the list can tell me what tests to run and in what order,
> what to look for, and how to interpret results.  Most of my experience has
> been with fairly obvious problems - ie. this is a network card problem,
> this is a bad stick of RAM - and I really couldn't see a pattern or
> probable cause to the random crashes.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 

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From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Nov 24 04:30:44 2012
From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 20:30:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: System testing
In-Reply-To: <CAEnxSC5DM25w_vxcgOPdN9JcmfQ=ekJRsnpO0G_1dccboVYU8Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAEnxSC5DM25w_vxcgOPdN9JcmfQ=ekJRsnpO0G_1dccboVYU8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1353731444.3601.YahooMailNeo@web140602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Giles,?

I would try running Memtest86+ over night, not just for an hour. That's especially true if you're running the test from an honest-to-goodness *cold* boot. Though checking for blown caps also is a good idea (and not mine, it's already been mentioned). Best of luck,?

-David
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From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Sat Nov 24 08:37:25 2012
From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 03:37:25 -0500
Subject: System testing
In-Reply-To: <CAEnxSC5DM25w_vxcgOPdN9JcmfQ=ekJRsnpO0G_1dccboVYU8Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAEnxSC5DM25w_vxcgOPdN9JcmfQ=ekJRsnpO0G_1dccboVYU8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50B08745.3020001@ve3syb.ca>

On 12-11-23 11:18 PM, Giles Orr wrote:
> I have an older system - Gigabyte motherboard, Core 2 quad processor.  It
> was my desktop up until a couple months ago - but it had become
> progressively more unstable and daily crashes were the norm.  Now I have a
> new desktop and I'm willing to subject the old system to any and all tests

I have seldom found a memory test able to catch problems but it never hurts 
to run it (for several hours minimum). Pull all plug-in cards that are not 
required to run the system. Check the power supply voltages to see if they 
are in spec and also look for ripple on the lines or just swap the power 
supply. A flaky supply can cause all kinds of hard to diagnose issues. If 
you run in graphics mode, swap the video card for another one in a working 
and stable machine.

-- 
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/           |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172      | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
                                 | powerful!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite> |             --Chris Hardwick
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From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Nov 24 15:15:24 2012
From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 10:15:24 -0500
Subject: System testing
In-Reply-To: <50B08745.3020001-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAEnxSC5DM25w_vxcgOPdN9JcmfQ=ekJRsnpO0G_1dccboVYU8Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<50B08745.3020001@ve3syb.ca>
Message-ID: <CAEnxSC7o_6txEKwz8v_oD0r8ecaq2w0YRJkrcTwLatrrGMsz7A@mail.gmail.com>

On 24 November 2012 03:37, Kevin Cozens <kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On 12-11-23 11:18 PM, Giles Orr wrote:
>>
>> I have an older system - Gigabyte motherboard, Core 2 quad processor.  It
>> was my desktop up until a couple months ago - but it had become
>> progressively more unstable and daily crashes were the norm.  Now I have a
>> new desktop and I'm willing to subject the old system to any and all tests
>
>
> I have seldom found a memory test able to catch problems but it never hurts
> to run it (for several hours minimum). Pull all plug-in cards that are not
> required to run the system. Check the power supply voltages to see if they
> are in spec and also look for ripple on the lines or just swap the power
> supply. A flaky supply can cause all kinds of hard to diagnose issues. If
> you run in graphics mode, swap the video card for another one in a working
> and stable machine.

Thanks to everyone for suggestions - all good.

Capacitor plague: while the processor in the system is about six years
old, the board is only three years old and therefore this shouldn't be
a problem.  But I opened the case and had a good look - and remembered
that I'd checked before.  This is a Gigabyte motherboard and in this
case they chose to use high quality caps (enclosed metal cylinders)
which should be fine, and if they do blow it won't be in the same way
as the previous lot of bad caps.  I couldn't see any signs of damage.

Memory: I just ran memtest86+ on it for eleven hours straight with no errors.

Power supply: ah - a friend suggested this a while back, but I didn't
do anything to check because it's a "good" power supply.  That is,
it's the 500w Antec that came inside the relatively new Antec Sonata
case the whole assembly is in.  But I knew I should check it.  Sadly,
I forgot and never followed up.  I will now.

Are there good tests for the processor and hard drive?

-- 
Giles
http://www.gilesorr.com/
gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
--
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sat Nov 24 16:56:27 2012
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:56:27 -0500
Subject: System testing
In-Reply-To: <CAEnxSC5DM25w_vxcgOPdN9JcmfQ=ekJRsnpO0G_1dccboVYU8Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAEnxSC5DM25w_vxcgOPdN9JcmfQ=ekJRsnpO0G_1dccboVYU8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121124165627.GA24248@node1.opengeometry.net>

How many harddisk do you have?  I had a Gigabyte board.  It was okay
with 6 or less harddisks, but it hangs with more than 6 disks.

As others have said, check power supply.
-- 
William

On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:18:52PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote:
> I have an older system - Gigabyte motherboard, Core 2 quad processor.  It
> was my desktop up until a couple months ago - but it had become
> progressively more unstable and daily crashes were the norm.  Now I have a
> new desktop and I'm willing to subject the old system to any and all tests
> to determine what's wrong - I'd like to continue to use it.
> 
> About the only thing I _have_ tested is memory with memtest86+, and this
> doesn't appear to be the problem (although I'm impatient and should
> probably run it longer than an hour).  I've downloaded UBCD, StressLinux,
> and some others - but don't entirely know what to do with them.
> 
> So I'm hoping the list can tell me what tests to run and in what order,
> what to look for, and how to interpret results.  Most of my experience has
> been with fairly obvious problems - ie. this is a network card problem,
> this is a bad stick of RAM - and I really couldn't see a pattern or
> probable cause to the random crashes.
> 
> Thanks in advance.

-- 
William
--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Nov 24 19:21:25 2012
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:21:25 -0500
Subject: System testing
In-Reply-To: <CAEnxSC7o_6txEKwz8v_oD0r8ecaq2w0YRJkrcTwLatrrGMsz7A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAEnxSC5DM25w_vxcgOPdN9JcmfQ=ekJRsnpO0G_1dccboVYU8Q@mail.gmail.com> <50B08745.3020001@ve3syb.ca> <CAEnxSC7o_6txEKwz8v_oD0r8ecaq2w0YRJkrcTwLatrrGMsz7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50B11E35.8040106@rogers.com>

Giles Orr wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for suggestions - all good.

Another thing to watch for is dust build up.  If there's too much dust, 
things can overheat and become flakey.

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From anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sun Nov 25 03:24:49 2012
From: anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Verevkin)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 22:24:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: System testing
In-Reply-To: <CAEnxSC7o_6txEKwz8v_oD0r8ecaq2w0YRJkrcTwLatrrGMsz7A-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAEnxSC7o_6txEKwz8v_oD0r8ecaq2w0YRJkrcTwLatrrGMsz7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b262f6f9-e2f6-4162-8491-e189e5b64212@zimbra>

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Giles Orr" <gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>

> Memory: I just ran memtest86+ on it for eleven hours straight with no
> errors.
> 
> Power supply: ah - a friend suggested this a while back, but I didn't
> do anything to check because it's a "good" power supply.  That is,
> it's the 500w Antec that came inside the relatively new Antec Sonata
> case the whole assembly is in.  But I knew I should check it.  Sadly,
> I forgot and never followed up.  I will now.
> 
> Are there good tests for the processor and hard drive?


Memtest86+ actually does not just check memory. It kind of checks the 
whole Memory-CPU-MB combination and somewhat the power supply. Current
versions of memtest show you the exact DIMM that had an issue not only
the offset that is buggy. Anyway, if you see that it's the same DIMM
or location on the DIMM that is giving you the issues across the multiple
runs - it's the broken memory, but if the errors are sporadic, the cause
is likely elsewhere.

Also a few years back (at the time of 2.4 and early 2.6) compiling the 
kernel was considered to be a good hardware test. The code was considered 
to be so clean that it would always compile on a properly working system. 
So if you see compilation errors - it's the hardware. On the other hand 
I tried to compile a kernel recently (about half a year ago) and it grew 
into a X00MB monster during the compilation and for the reason I don't 
remember now it didn't compile and I dropped the idea.

BTW, then was the last time you compiled the kernel for an i386/x84 system? ;)

Regards,
Anthony
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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Nov 25 07:55:53 2012
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 02:55:53 -0500
Subject: System testing
In-Reply-To: <b262f6f9-e2f6-4162-8491-e189e5b64212@zimbra>
References: <CAEnxSC7o_6txEKwz8v_oD0r8ecaq2w0YRJkrcTwLatrrGMsz7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<b262f6f9-e2f6-4162-8491-e189e5b64212@zimbra>
Message-ID: <CAE9rU+50RwLMNKMX_xTaCVpoUk1V4TDy1z7bkQa-azYbzb_iuQ@mail.gmail.com>

>Also a few years back (at the time of 2.4 and early 2.6) compiling the
> kernel was considered to be a good hardware test. The code was considered
> to be so clean that it would always compile on a properly working system.
> So if you see compilation errors - it's the hardware. On the other hand
> I tried to compile a kernel recently (about half a year ago) and it grew
> into a X00MB monster during the compilation and for the reason I don't
> remember now it didn't compile and I dropped the idea.
>
Apology as this is a little off topic as it has nothing to do with system
testing but ...

Hmm, you implying the kernel quality has gone down now? My impression is
the opposite.  That impression is arrived at by listening to Linux
symposium recordings,  so may be wrong. But I doubt it, most kernel dev are
now old guys with decades of kernel development experience, so that should
at least improve the code quality

> BTW, then was the last time you compiled the kernel for an i386/x84
system? ;)
>
Long ago.  I still remember the reason I stopped.  It was a paragraph on
RedHat documents that mentioned using self compiled kernel risk exposing
you to bugs that are triggered by some compiler flags but not in redhat
provided kernel. That mean most of the Google search would not help as your
problem would be unique

That being said, may be good to compile kernel as long as its not used on
production system.  That way, we can catch and resport those bugs.
> Regards,
> Anthony
> --
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From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Nov 25 11:30:24 2012
From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 15:30:24 +0400
Subject: overheating
Message-ID: <50B20150.7020707@gmail.com>

This is a somewhat old compact Dell machine that I use as my home 
workstation. It serves me well for a long time. Except of one problem.

It recently turns off due to overheating.

This is not processor overheating. I suspect that it is due to power 
supply overheating. I measure now temperature of chasse of the power 
supply. When the out metal is of around 41 degrees C, the computer turns 
off. Now I can use the computer by placing a metal pot with a cold water 
with ice on the power supply. Still, until the ice melts and temperature 
reaches 41.

Where could I change that critical temperature? Is that in software or 
on harware? Psensors do not help me.






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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Nov 25 12:33:26 2012
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 07:33:26 -0500
Subject: System testing
In-Reply-To: <b262f6f9-e2f6-4162-8491-e189e5b64212@zimbra>
References: <b262f6f9-e2f6-4162-8491-e189e5b64212@zimbra>
Message-ID: <50B21016.8010801@rogers.com>

Anthony Verevkin wrote:
> BTW, then was the last time you compiled the kernel for an i386/x84 system?;)

Many years ago, when I was using Slackware for my firewall.  That would 
be around 2000 or so.  It was on a 386 box that I had picked up cheap at 
Computerfest.

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From anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sun Nov 25 15:03:48 2012
From: anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Verevkin)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:03:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Compiling the kernel  was:System testing
In-Reply-To: <CAE9rU+50RwLMNKMX_xTaCVpoUk1V4TDy1z7bkQa-azYbzb_iuQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <CAE9rU+50RwLMNKMX_xTaCVpoUk1V4TDy1z7bkQa-azYbzb_iuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fb7ce63a-a03d-4663-9ab6-2825a2319384@zimbra>


----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Muriithi" <william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>

> > kernel was considered to be a good hardware test. The code was
> > considered to be so clean that it would always compile
> > ... it didn't compile and I dropped the idea.
> Hmm, you implying the kernel quality has gone down now? My impression
> is the opposite.

No, no, no. I am only saying that they changed something in the way
you do it (at least in my distro -Debian) so I no longer know how to 
properly compile the kernel.


> > BTW, when was the last time you compiled the kernel for an i386/x84
> > system? ;)
> Long ago.

That's what I am talking about. Back in the days it was maybe the first
task that a Linux admin would do, but now we do not compile any more...

Regards,
Anthony
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From anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sun Nov 25 15:26:32 2012
From: anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Verevkin)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:26:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: overheating
In-Reply-To: <50B20150.7020707-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <50B20150.7020707@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20ed3e0e-c432-4e31-942d-c0e1cc571eec@zimbra>


----- Original Message -----
> From: "Zbigniew Koziol" <softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>

> It recently turns off due to overheating.

> temperature reaches 41.

> Where could I change that critical temperature? Is that in software
> or on harware? Psensors do not help me.

The setting used to be in BIOS. BTW, what temperature is that - is it
CPU or MB/Ambient? If it's CPU it's a very low threshold, but if it is
ambient temp you might want to look for dead coolers inside or dust that's
blocking the air flow.

Regards,
Anthony
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From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Sun Nov 25 16:19:53 2012
From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:19:53 -0500
Subject: overheating
In-Reply-To: <50B20150.7020707-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <50B20150.7020707@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50B24529.9090506@ve3syb.ca>

On 12-11-25 06:30 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
> This is a somewhat old compact Dell machine that I use as my home
> workstation. It serves me well for a long time. Except of one problem.
>
> It recently turns off due to overheating.

How old is the machine? The computer turning off due to heat is most likely 
an indication that one (or more) fans have failed or are not working properly.

Based on my experience with a Pentium II computer I used for 9 years I would 
check the fan in the power supply. My Pentium II ran nicely all those years 
(and would still work if I plugged it in today), but during the time it was 
getting a lot of use every day I had to replace the power supply twice due 
to a failing power supply fan.

When a fan is on its way out it usually lets you know by a change in the 
noise level from the system. It might get noisier, or you can hear the fan 
struggling (like it is almost starting and stopping), or it might make a 
sort of squealing noise if the bearings are going.

-- 
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/           |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172      | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
                                 | powerful!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite> |             --Chris Hardwick
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From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org  Sun Nov 25 18:46:45 2012
From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 13:46:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: overheating
In-Reply-To: <50B24529.9090506-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <50B20150.7020707@gmail.com> <50B24529.9090506@ve3syb.ca>
Message-ID: <bcd778bca653aa557fb66754ba4f6653@webmail.look.ca>


41 seems very low for a CPU limit.

Make sure that the clamps that hold the CPU fan assembly are tight.
Sometime the plastic CPU retention plates break. CPU retention plates can
be purchased on ebay. (I have an AMD AM2 motherboard, and got an AM2 CPU
retention plate for 4 bucks. I had to remove the whole motherboard, replac
the plate, and reinstall the motherboard, but it worked.)


I find that fans need to be cleaned perhaps once a year, and heat sinks
need to be cleaned as well. They get slow and noisy and out-of-balance.
Noisy or locked fans can be removed, and the blades cleaned with wd40 or
fantastik and Q-tips. A drop of oil on the fan bearings help.

Compressed air cans can be used to blow dust out of heat sinks.
Make sure that no wires are interfering with the fan blades

good luck.

Duncan



> On 12-11-25 06:30 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
>> This is a somewhat old compact Dell machine that I use as my home
>> workstation. It serves me well for a long time. Except of one problem.
>>
>> It recently turns off due to overheating.
>
> How old is the machine? The computer turning off due to heat is most
> likely
> an indication that one (or more) fans have failed or are not working
> properly.
>
> Based on my experience with a Pentium II computer I used for 9 years I
> would
> check the fan in the power supply. My Pentium II ran nicely all those
> years
> (and would still work if I plugged it in today), but during the time it
> was
> getting a lot of use every day I had to replace the power supply twice due
> to a failing power supply fan.
>
> When a fan is on its way out it usually lets you know by a change in the
> noise level from the system. It might get noisier, or you can hear the fan
> struggling (like it is almost starting and stopping), or it might make a
> sort of squealing noise if the bearings are going.
>
> --
> Cheers!
>
> Kevin.
>
> http://www.ve3syb.ca/           |"Nerds make the shiny things that
> distract
> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172      | the mouth-breathers, and that's why
> we're
>                                  | powerful!"
> #include <disclaimer/favourite> |             --Chris Hardwick
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

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From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov 26 09:16:14 2012
From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:16:14 +0400
Subject: overheating
In-Reply-To: <bcd778bca653aa557fb66754ba4f6653-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org>
References: <50B20150.7020707@gmail.com> <50B24529.9090506@ve3syb.ca> <bcd778bca653aa557fb66754ba4f6653@webmail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <50B3335E.5010303@gmail.com>


Oh, well. Thanks for all comments arround.

This is no doubt a fan problem (the one on power supply).

I am somewhat confused though and do not understand well how this 
overheating is treated by the system.

The temperature 41 here is temperature measured by external multimeter 
with termocouple well fixed to the metal wall of power supply. Hence, 
this is not exactly the temperature which is inside of the power supply 
and may be used only as an approximation of what is going on there.

The computer itself is old (I bought it 3 years ago from a second hand, 
for $ 100). However, it has a fast processor 2.8 GHz and works for me 
very well otherwise. Hence, I would like to use it.

My first idea was that it turns off due to overheating of power supply. 
But this was probably a wrong idea.

No, I can not adjust any settings related to overheating in BIOS because 
there is no any entry there for that.

I use Psensor. It shows me one only temperature, which is from /dev/sda 
and it seems that this is temperature of CPU. (should not I be able to 
see more temperature sensors there?) Right now it reports 43 degrees. 
That is fine, the machine still works (I doubt though if for long yet).

I wonder where physically the temperature sensor is located on motherboard.

I guess that not only temperature itself decides about turn-off feature 
but possibly also the time rate of change of it. And, possibly, this is 
not only temperature of CPU, but also from other sensors.

I do not feel any particularely hot elements on the motherboard after it 
turns off.

My guess is also that these boxes are designed to work on the border 
line. That the air flow inside must well determined. If the fan is dead 
or works improperly, nothing helps. Opening it does not help, rather.


On 11/25/2012 10:46 PM, dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org wrote:
> 41 seems very low for a CPU limit.
>
> Make sure that the clamps that hold the CPU fan assembly are tight.
> Sometime the plastic CPU retention plates break. CPU retention plates can
> be purchased on ebay. (I have an AMD AM2 motherboard, and got an AM2 CPU
> retention plate for 4 bucks. I had to remove the whole motherboard, replac
> the plate, and reinstall the motherboard, but it worked.)
>
>
> I find that fans need to be cleaned perhaps once a year, and heat sinks
> need to be cleaned as well. They get slow and noisy and out-of-balance.
> Noisy or locked fans can be removed, and the blades cleaned with wd40 or
> fantastik and Q-tips. A drop of oil on the fan bearings help.
>
> Compressed air cans can be used to blow dust out of heat sinks.
> Make sure that no wires are interfering with the fan blades
>
> good luck.
>
> Duncan
>
>
>
>> On 12-11-25 06:30 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
>>> This is a somewhat old compact Dell machine that I use as my home
>>> workstation. It serves me well for a long time. Except of one problem.
>>>
>>> It recently turns off due to overheating.
>> How old is the machine? The computer turning off due to heat is most
>> likely
>> an indication that one (or more) fans have failed or are not working
>> properly.
>>
>> Based on my experience with a Pentium II computer I used for 9 years I
>> would
>> check the fan in the power supply. My Pentium II ran nicely all those
>> years
>> (and would still work if I plugged it in today), but during the time it
>> was
>> getting a lot of use every day I had to replace the power supply twice due
>> to a failing power supply fan.
>>
>> When a fan is on its way out it usually lets you know by a change in the
>> noise level from the system. It might get noisier, or you can hear the fan
>> struggling (like it is almost starting and stopping), or it might make a
>> sort of squealing noise if the bearings are going.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Kevin.
>>
>> http://www.ve3syb.ca/           |"Nerds make the shiny things that
>> distract
>> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172      | the mouth-breathers, and that's why
>> we're
>>                                   | powerful!"
>> #include <disclaimer/favourite> |             --Chris Hardwick
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov 26 13:35:22 2012
From: anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Verevkin)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 08:35:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: overheating
In-Reply-To: <50B3335E.5010303-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <50B3335E.5010303@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26f66655-7aee-4361-b686-febef0997c88@zimbra>


----- Original Message -----
> From: "Zbigniew Koziol" <softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>

> My first idea was that it turns off due to overheating of power
> supply. But this was probably a wrong idea.

I don't know what made you think it's wrong, it might well be the reason.
If the power supply is hot it might switch off. Not by a sensor giving a
signal to CPU and CPU shutting everything down, but by a simple temperature
protection inside the power supply cutting the power as for emergency.


> No, I can not adjust any settings related to overheating in BIOS
> because there is no any entry there for that.

I am absolutely sure you should be able to set the threshold for max
CPU temperature in BIOS. It would be somewhere in the 'health status'
menu where you also see the fan speeds and power levels.

 
> I use Psensor. It shows me one only temperature, which is from
> /dev/sda and it seems that this is temperature of CPU. 
> Right now it reports 43 degrees.
> I wonder where physically the temperature sensor is located on
> motherboard.

The temperature coming from /dev/sda is your hard drive's temperature.
It's a part of SMART information and you could also read it using
smartctl from the smartmontools package. You should be able to see two
more temperatures - the CPU temperature and the Motherboard temperature.
Check the lm-sensors package, it should give you this ability.

Regards,
Anthony
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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov 26 14:19:15 2012
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:19:15 -0500
Subject: overheating
In-Reply-To: <50B20150.7020707-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <50B20150.7020707@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121126091915.f84d8066967b39c0153f5c28@eol.ca>

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 15:30:24 +0400
Zbigniew Koziol <softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> This is a somewhat old compact Dell machine that I use as my home 
> workstation. It serves me well for a long time. Except of one problem.
> 
> It recently turns off due to overheating.
> 
> This is not processor overheating. I suspect that it is due to power 
> supply overheating. I measure now temperature of chasse of the power 
> supply. When the out metal is of around 41 degrees C, the computer turns 
> off. Now I can use the computer by placing a metal pot with a cold water 
> with ice on the power supply. Still, until the ice melts and temperature 
> reaches 41.
> 
> Where could I change that critical temperature? Is that in software or 
> on harware? Psensors do not help me.

Zbigniew,

   Why not just replace the power supply?  On an old computer, this could be quite cheap.  

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org 
jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov 26 14:26:21 2012
From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 18:26:21 +0400
Subject: overheating
In-Reply-To: <20121126091915.f84d8066967b39c0153f5c28-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <50B20150.7020707@gmail.com> <20121126091915.f84d8066967b39c0153f5c28@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <50B37C0D.9030303@gmail.com>

On 11/26/2012 06:19 PM, Howard Gibson wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 15:30:24 +0400
> Zbigniew Koziol <softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> This is a somewhat old compact Dell machine that I use as my home
>> workstation. It serves me well for a long time. Except of one problem.
>>
>> It recently turns off due to overheating.
>>
>> This is not processor overheating. I suspect that it is due to power
>> supply overheating. I measure now temperature of chasse of the power
>> supply. When the out metal is of around 41 degrees C, the computer turns
>> off. Now I can use the computer by placing a metal pot with a cold water
>> with ice on the power supply. Still, until the ice melts and temperature
>> reaches 41.
>>
>> Where could I change that critical temperature? Is that in software or
>> on harware? Psensors do not help me.
> Zbigniew,
>
>     Why not just replace the power supply?  On an old computer, this could be quite cheap.
>
The answer is simple: I have no idea where I could find a replacement. 
The size of it, etc.

I will reply Anthony later.


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From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov 26 14:45:02 2012
From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:45:02 -0500
Subject: overheating
In-Reply-To: <50B37C0D.9030303-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <50B20150.7020707@gmail.com>
	<20121126091915.f84d8066967b39c0153f5c28@eol.ca>
	<50B37C0D.9030303@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPYt=DEsJS1h2boyUwOLfyiX3xzof10E8pjcuK_xfWHGUN+pUA@mail.gmail.com>

>>     Why not just replace the power supply?  On an old computer, this could
>> be quite cheap.
>>
> The answer is simple: I have no idea where I could find a replacement. The
> size of it, etc.
>
> I will reply Anthony later.

I assume you've checked for dust and vacuumed the computer?

You should really replace the PSU if the fan has failed and you don't
feel comfortable workign around line-level voltages.  Overheating
power supplies can burn out iwith sparks and smoke.  Zero air flow in
the power supply is bad.  It's possible that the PSU is overheating
internally and failing to provide power within spec to the
motherboard, leading to the motherboard shutting down.  This can lead
to permanent damage.

A lazy trick might be to add a case-fan to the outside of the power
supply...  Attach it with plastic ties or bungees or something.  Make
sure it blows out of the case.  I don't recommend this if you care
about your computer.

Another lazy trick is to not bother with a matching shape and size of
PSU, just grab any PSU of the era with long enough ATX wires and a
high enough wattage rating.  Remove the old PSU, sit the new one on
top of the box, tie a knot in the wires, use a plastic tie to tie it
to the case (so that if it falls, it doesn't pull on the motherboard),
then tape the PSU to the box without blocking any vents.

If the case is a standard case, then the new PSU might even fit and
the whole thing is a moot point.

Good luck, and don't forget to back up your data :-)


-Mike
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From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov 26 17:33:01 2012
From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:33:01 -0500
Subject: If you've wondered what goes on in high-end PCB production.
Message-ID: <50B3A7CD.1060202@ss.org>

Pete Lomas, the PCB designer for the Raspberry Pi and a trustee of the 
Raspberry Pi Foundation as penned a explanation of what goes at the Sony 
manufacturing facility.

http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2569


On a side note, Rob Bishop of the Raspberry Pi Foundation will be in 
Toronto on Dec 3rd.

http://hacklab.to/archives/rpi-tour-toronto/

-- 
Scott Sullivan
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Nov 26 22:14:40 2012
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 17:14:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: very cheap LASER printer, today only
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1211261706390.7671@redclaw.mimosa.com>

NewEgg is selling a LASER printer that can duplex (i.e. it can print on 
both sides of a page) and is supposedly supported by Linux, for $24.99 + 
$4.99 shipping.  Amazing.  I once paid $1400 for a LASER printer, the 
cheapest any LASER printer had been up to that point (1988?).

<http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16828107049>

I saw these at Tiger Direct for $29.99 on (Black) Friday.  They also had 
very inexpensive OKI colour LASER printers, but with no Linux support.
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