From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 02:18:20 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 22:18:20 -0400 Subject: Curious situation with unlink() and open() In-Reply-To: <4F9EBB83.4040603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120430045915.GA8272@node1.opengeometry.net> <1335799892.24517.YahooMailNeo@web113420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4F9EBB83.4040603@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120501021820.GA2451@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:19:15PM -0400, Yanni Chiu wrote: > On 30/04/12 11:31 AM, William Park wrote: > > > >I think the issue is, lock is applied after open(), not before. > >But, you lock on file descriptor which open() gives you. > > I think the issue is that it's a lock on writing the file (so the bits > don't get garbled by two processes writing at the same time). It's not > a lock on removing the file entirely. As others have said, the two > processes have to coordinate, whether or not the file can be removed. > The write lock is not the right mechanism for this coordination - you > need additional program logic (maybe another file). Hmm... creating separate lock file (O_RDONLY|O_CREAT|O_EXCL) seems to work, by forcing open() to fail for all subsequent attempts to get fd. It's polluting the directory, but the code is only few lines more. Thanks. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 02:36:50 2012 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 22:36:50 -0400 Subject: Curious situation with unlink() and open() In-Reply-To: <20120501021820.GA2451-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120430045915.GA8272@node1.opengeometry.net> <1335799892.24517.YahooMailNeo@web113420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4F9EBB83.4040603@rogers.com> <20120501021820.GA2451@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4F9F4C42.7050109@rogers.com> On 30/04/12 10:18 PM, William Park wrote: > > Hmm... creating separate lock file (O_RDONLY|O_CREAT|O_EXCL) seems to > work, by forcing open() to fail for all subsequent attempts to get fd. > It's polluting the directory, but the code is only few lines more. > Thanks. So now the problem that could arise is that some process fails to remove the lock file, due to some premature exit. Is there standard (shell?) code for things like this? Or, is using an RDB a quick and easy (but heavyweight) solution. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 03:22:12 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:22:12 -0400 Subject: Curious situation with unlink() and open() In-Reply-To: <4F9F4C42.7050109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120430045915.GA8272@node1.opengeometry.net> <1335799892.24517.YahooMailNeo@web113420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4F9EBB83.4040603@rogers.com> <20120501021820.GA2451@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F9F4C42.7050109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120501032212.GA3937@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 10:36:50PM -0400, Yanni Chiu wrote: > On 30/04/12 10:18 PM, William Park wrote: > > > >Hmm... creating separate lock file (O_RDONLY|O_CREAT|O_EXCL) seems to > >work, by forcing open() to fail for all subsequent attempts to get fd. > >It's polluting the directory, but the code is only few lines more. > >Thanks. > > So now the problem that could arise is that some process fails to remove > the lock file, due to some premature exit. Perhaps, O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_EXCL instead and write pid in the file. If pid doesn't exist, or does exist but is different program, then it's stale lock? > > Is there standard (shell?) code for things like this? Or, is using an > RDB a quick and easy (but heavyweight) solution. Now that you mention it... what I'm trying to do is to break up GDBM-like database into one record per file. Filename will be the "key" to the record, and the file content will be record content. What those "record" is, is a little different issue. In my case, it's spreadsheet. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 04:03:40 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Curious situation with unlink() and open() In-Reply-To: <20120501032212.GA3937-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120430045915.GA8272@node1.opengeometry.net> <1335799892.24517.YahooMailNeo@web113420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4F9EBB83.4040603@rogers.com> <20120501021820.GA2451@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F9F4C42.7050109@rogers.com> <20120501032212.GA3937@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: | From: William Park | Now that you mention it... what I'm trying to do is to break up | GDBM-like database into one record per file. Filename will be the | "key" to the record, and the file content will be record content. What | those "record" is, is a little different issue. In my case, it's | spreadsheet. I don't really understand your problem and the consequent solution space. Why does one process want to create the file, lock it, write it, and then delete it? Why would that interfere with another process? When both are trying to operate on the same pathname, does that mean both are actually trying to operate on the same entity, or is that just a clash? What should happen in that case, and why? Here's a trick that may or may not be relevant to what you are trying to do. A process can create a file with a private / unique / temporary name. Once the content is finalized, the process can move it to the desired name (i.e. link(tempname, finalname); unlink(tempname);). The link is an atomic operation so often file locking isn't needed. Note: the link call will fail with EEXIST if finalname already exists; this is a feature, not a bug. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 15:49:12 2012 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 11:49:12 -0400 Subject: name workspaces in ubuntu/unity OR rename activitiesi n KDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Matt Price wrote: > > - I thought KDE activities would be the obvious solution here, but I > cnanot figure out how to modify the properties of existing KDE > activities. Every internet guide I've found suggests that there will > be an "Activity" icon in the "Desktop Settings" window you can bring > up in various ways under KDE. But I'm not seeing one anywhere -- the > whole icon is missing, and in fact the configuration GUI is pretty > barebones -- se ethis image, > https://launchpadlibrarian.net/103617970/desktopsetting_noact.png . > Not sure if these config options been moved somewhere else in recent > KDE versions, but if so I'm not finding any documentation about it > anywhere. Perhaps I'm missing some crucial packages? but if so, > again, I can't tell what they might be. > Virtual desktops and activities are orthogonal concepts. Virtual desktops in KDE work as they always have and they're implemented (and configured) in the window manager. You can have however many you want, you can name them, you can make KWin force certain windows to certain desktops. That's all normal X stuff. Activities, AFAICT, never having used them, are about creating related groups of processes and plasma doohickeys that can be started and stopped as a unit. An activity will configure/modify all your virtual desktops in one go. Note that a lot (most?) of what's on the web about KDE activities is horribly out of date and doesn't describe activities as they exist today. the first result I found was for activities circa 2009, which don't work at all like today's ones. It sounds to me like you want just plain virtual desktops, rather than activities. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 16:20:09 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 12:20:09 -0400 Subject: Clone and Expand XP Message-ID: <90f559d6338f9528e5cb61fa28b7711f.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> I recently decided that it would be prudent to replace the hard drive and increase the available space on an Acer Aspire 3610 laptop, which was dual boot at the time. Windows folks periodically cleanse their hard drive: wipe the hard drive, re-install their operating system, and then re-install every last application that they need. This is a very foreign way of thinking in the Linux world, as the folks on this list will know. I wanted some way of avoiding that process on this laptop. After a week of tinkering, I put together a procedure for doing that, which is documented in a paper on my academic web page: Cloning and Expanding a Hard Drive Under Windows XP http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock/papers/clone-and-expand.pdf Why is this relevant to a Linux discussion list? Because Clonezilla and GParted, used in this exercise, are both linux tools. Also because the approach could be used to tweak the partition allotment in a dual boot system. In the process I came across a method of recovering grub, which I tested (it worked) and is listed in the references. In the process, I copied my home directory to a backup and then blew away the Suse linux installation (I could never get it to work at a nice resolution for the laptop display), but that's not necessary in this procedure. Comments welcome, of course. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 16:33:50 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 12:33:50 -0400 Subject: Clone and Expand XP In-Reply-To: <90f559d6338f9528e5cb61fa28b7711f.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <90f559d6338f9528e5cb61fa28b7711f.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4FA0106E.8050104@ve3syb.ca> On 12-05-01 12:20 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Windows folks periodically cleanse their hard drive: wipe the hard drive, > re-install their operating system, and then re-install every last > application that they need. This is a very foreign way of thinking in the > Linux world, as the folks on this list will know. It should be a foreign way of thinking. Just think about how often you (we) have seen people suggesting that it is better to re-install the latest version of a distro from scratch instead of trying to use its update/upgrade feature. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 1 17:26:13 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 13:26:13 -0400 Subject: Clone and Expand XP In-Reply-To: <4FA0106E.8050104-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <90f559d6338f9528e5cb61fa28b7711f.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4FA0106E.8050104@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 12-05-01 12:20 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Windows folks periodically cleanse their hard drive: wipe the hard drive, >> re-install their operating system, and then re-install every last >> application that they need. This is a very foreign way of thinking in the >> Linux world, as the folks on this list will know. > > > It should be a foreign way of thinking. Just think about how often you (we) > have seen people suggesting that it is better to re-install the latest > version of a distro from scratch instead of trying to use its update/upgrade > feature. I do like that Debian has developed this to a pretty extreme degree, but I still appreciate that there are cases where a careful arrangement of "install from scratch" has merits. The very first time I installed Linux, I made sure I had /home and /usr/local on separate partitions so that I had a ready option of re-installing some other distribution without destroying my important data. I consider data to be more important than the software, since installing fresh software has been made pretty easy. (And things were really not so terribly awful in the mid-90s.) It used to be that it was an interesting idea to try out the latest & greatest distribution from someone else to see what oddities they introduced. There were some neat things in Caldera OpenDesktop, back before they "turned evil." I think there's a fair bit of merit to having your processes set up to make it as easy as possible to install from scratch and recover, pretty nearly automatically, into a usable state. There's some pretty good material discussing how to do that well: The use of Virtual Machines (kvm, xen, VMware, and such) also represents an "accent" that sounds rather a lot like what you're recommending not to do. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 2 03:06:01 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 23:06:01 -0400 Subject: Clone and Expand XP In-Reply-To: References: <90f559d6338f9528e5cb61fa28b7711f.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4FA0106E.8050104@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: I deploy images onto free space and then create an image of the OS partition and paste it to the data partition. I always move the data folders to the data partition. On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > > On 12-05-01 12:20 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Windows folks periodically cleanse their hard drive: wipe the hard > drive, > >> re-install their operating system, and then re-install every last > >> application that they need. This is a very foreign way of thinking in > the > >> Linux world, as the folks on this list will know. > > > > > > It should be a foreign way of thinking. Just think about how often you > (we) > > have seen people suggesting that it is better to re-install the latest > > version of a distro from scratch instead of trying to use its > update/upgrade > > feature. > > I do like that Debian has developed this to a pretty extreme degree, > but I still appreciate that there are cases where a careful > arrangement of "install from scratch" has merits. > > The very first time I installed Linux, I made sure I had /home and > /usr/local on separate partitions so that I had a ready option of > re-installing some other distribution without destroying my important > data. I consider data to be more important than the software, since > installing fresh software has been made pretty easy. (And things were > really not so terribly awful in the mid-90s.) > > It used to be that it was an interesting idea to try out the latest & > greatest distribution from someone else to see what oddities they > introduced. There were some neat things in Caldera OpenDesktop, back > before they "turned evil." > > I think there's a fair bit of merit to having your processes set up to > make it as easy as possible to install from scratch and recover, > pretty nearly automatically, into a usable state. There's some pretty > good material discussing how to do that well: > > > The use of Virtual Machines (kvm, xen, VMware, and such) also > represents an "accent" that sounds rather a lot like what you're > recommending not to do. > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 3 00:17:51 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 20:17:51 -0400 Subject: sshd + hosts.allow Message-ID: <20120503001751.GA3181@node1.opengeometry.net> I had no idea that sshd would be using /etc/hosts.allow. One week of wild goose chase! -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 4 02:15:57 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 22:15:57 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Network Administrator - Richmond Hill - 3KC In-Reply-To: <6C3348678EE0450ABCCCA5F19F7CAB17@derek9f4af5f8c> References: <6C3348678EE0450ABCCCA5F19F7CAB17@derek9f4af5f8c> Message-ID: I'm not currently placed to take advantage of the following opportunity, but anyone who is interested should contact Derek directly... Colin McGregor ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: 3K Consulting <3k.consulting-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> Date: Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:39 PM Subject: Network Administrator - Richmond Hill - 3KC To: 3k <3k.consulting-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> My name is Derek Edwards I work for a staffing firm (3K Consulting Inc). I have a client at the moment looking to hire a? Network Administrator for a?fulltime position in Richmond Hill. The job description is provided in the email below. If you are available and interested, please forward a fresh copy of your resume along with your?fulltime rate. If you are working kindly forward this email to any of your colleagues you feel would be a good fit for this role. Any help you could afford me would be appreciated Position: Network Administrator Location: Richmond Hill Our company is growing and we are looking for a Network Administrator. The qualified candidates will work out of the Company Network Operations Center with limited travel to client sites. Our company is a Microsoft Certified Partner, Dell Certified Partner, Cisco Partner, and SonicWALL Partner. The qualified candidate will have expert level experience in Network Infrastructure services such as DHCP, DNS and NAT, along with expert level knowledge in the following areas: Cisco IOS Routing & Switching Cisco Call Manager Exchange Server 2003 - 2010 (Exchange System Manager) Microsoft Windows Server 2008 / R2 Remote Desktop Services Group Policy Active Directory Blackberry Enterprise Microsoft SQL 2005-2008 (Nice To Have) All candidates must have excellent verbal, written and communications skills in the English Language with a strong understanding for team work. Regards www.3kc.ca 3K Consulting Derek Edwards HR Recruiting Consultant Phone: 905 476 3467 Email: derek-pQtrojklaYI at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun May 6 21:59:10 2012 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 17:59:10 -0400 Subject: more user-friendly than Update manager? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9EDCB3.5070200@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4FA6F42E.2010905@chrisaitken.net> Thanks for everybody's help. Distro... DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu DISTRIB_RELEASE=11.10 DISTRIB_CODENAME=oneiric DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 11.10" I'll just do one update session at the beginning of each month. I'll just pick 'em all by hand as usual (it was really that you can't Shift+Click to multi-select things that bugged me). However, I forgot that sometimes deselecting one thing deselects its dependencies as well (which helps a bit). I still have lots of space on my computer. I'll deselect obvious things like Evolution-related stuff and I can deselect other stuff as I learn what it is. Chris On 12-04-30 04:24 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: >> Is there a more user-friendly way to get updates than Update manager? >> >> I see hundreds of suggested updates for things like Evolution that I don't >> even use. You can't Shift+Click to deselect ranges of updates. So I have to >> click each update of hundreds. >> >> Is there a faster way to do this? > I would suppose that if you don't use Evolution, and don't want > updates for it, then perhaps you should tell the package manager to > de-install it. > > Then, you could just install "everything" that is recommended, and get > a more reasonable set. > > This can sometimes work out badly if you ask to de-install some part > of (say) GNOME that a lot of other things depend on, some of which you > *do* care about. > > My inclination would be to strategically pick certain things that I > *know* I don't want. Evolution would be near the top of my list. I > remove the set of undesirable things, which turns that "update of > hundreds" into more of a dull roar of "dozens," which I'm rather more > willing to accept. > > I just ran apt-get update/apt-get dist-upgrade on my work workstation; > it's proposing to upgrade about 120 packages. > > I notice that it includes a bunch of mono packages. If I request to > 'apt-get remove' one of them, that drops out a bunch of packages, the > only one of which I care *at all* about being sparkleshare, which is > loosely a "cloud filesystem" app. I'm willing to drop that, which > cascades out 30 packages directly. A run of "apt-get autoremove" > drops out another 30-ish packages, mostly libraries. > > I notice it's upgrading sisu, which I experimented with a while back; > dropping that nukes ~6 more packages. > > After that, the list falls to 94 packages to upgrade. That looks like > it'll take ~5 minutes, and I think I can live with that. > > Trying to have *no* updates seems like a losing battle to me. Your > choices fall between two endpoints: > > a) Pick a distribution that doesn't bother updating anything anymore. > > That sucks, because it's likely got buggy software that won't get > fixed, and some day, some of those bugs will affect you, and your only > choice will be to do some sort of massively disruptive upgrade to a > massively new version. > > "Oh, crap, Slackware 6.0 can't support my favorite app without me > compiling all of GNOME from scratch by hand. Gotta upgrade." > > b) Pick a distribution that continually updates things. > Debian/testing is a good case in point. > > That sucks, because you'll have something of a torrent of new versions > of packages coming in. Mind you, as long as you do upgrades > *reasonably* often, then there won't be a "massively disruptive > upgrade." > If you're running Ubuntu, and it's asking to update 100 packages, I'd > think that if you imagine you want to NOT do that, then I draw the > conclusion that Ubuntu is likely the wrong choice for you. > > Any time you find yourself fighting against your distribution's > package management policies, then, more than likely, either: > a) They're right, and you're wrong. (Which is pretty possible. The > makers of the distribution should have greater competence at knowing > how to manage it than you do.) > b) The second possibility is that you want something that is good but > that the distribution makers didn't intend to make easy. Which > implies that you made a poor choice of distributions. > c) Least likely is that you're right, and that they are morons. Which > means you picked the wrong distribution, and you should see about > choosing otherwise, immediately, if not sooner. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sun May 6 22:17:26 2012 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 18:17:26 -0400 Subject: more user-friendly than Update manager? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9EDCB3.5070200@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4FA6F876.8060106@chrisaitken.net> On 12-04-30 03:10 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Mr Chris Aitken > > | Is there a more user-friendly way to get updates than Update manager? > | > | I see hundreds of suggested updates for things like Evolution that I don't > | even use. You can't Shift+Click to deselect ranges of updates. So I have to > | click each update of hundreds. > | > | Is there a faster way to do this? > > You don't say what distro you use. I am guessing Ubuntu. > > All those updates are for packages that you have installed. Hmmm. Interesting. I went to uninstall Evolution and it says it was never installed... chris at chris-HP-Compaq-dc5750-Small-Form-Factor:~$ sudo apt-get remove evolution Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Package evolution is not installed, so not removed 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 387 not upgraded. > If you > have them installed, it is probably a good idea to update them. If > you find that a pain, then uninstall the ones you don't use. > > Note: some packages that you don't directly use are used by other > packages. So you might not actually know which ones you are using. > > If you have a broadband internet connection, it is much easier to do > all the suggested updates than to be selective. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 06:25:43 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 02:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: more user-friendly than Update manager? In-Reply-To: <4FA6F876.8060106-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F9EDCB3.5070200@chrisaitken.net> <4FA6F876.8060106@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: | From: Mr Chris Aitken | On 12-04-30 03:10 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > | From: Mr Chris Aitken | > | > | Is there a more user-friendly way to get updates than Update manager? | > | | > | I see hundreds of suggested updates for things like Evolution that I don't | > | even use. | > All those updates are for packages that you have installed. | | Hmmm. Interesting. I went to uninstall Evolution and it says it was never | installed... Yes, interesting! Are you sure that it is asking to update evolution? What does this command report: dpkg --list '*volution*' | chris at chris-HP-Compaq-dc5750-Small-Form-Factor:~$ sudo apt-get remove evolution | Package evolution is not installed, so not removed Odd. Could you try the update-manager again and carfully not which packages with "volution" in their name that it wants to update? You could try: apt-get --just-print upgrade This would tell you which packages would be updated. I would be interested in the output of that command up until the line that looks like: 41 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 5 not upgraded. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 16:22:13 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 12:22:13 -0400 Subject: Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 9 May 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI: The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at 6:45 pm on Wednesday ?9 May 2012, in room BA 2179 in the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. George Street, on the University of Toronto campus. Unix Unanimous is an informal gathering of people interested in Unix and related topics. There are no fees or membership requirements, and the meeting is open to all. Participants typically include Unix professionals, students, and hobbyists. This message will be repeated on the Monday before the meeting. If there are any items for the agenda, email u-u-owner-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org before then. The meeting is always held on the second Wednesday of each month. Special Announcements: A mailing list has been set up for this announcement. If you wish to receive notification via email, go to the web page https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u/ in order to subscribe yourself. A map of the area can be found at http://unixunanimous.org where this message is repeated, and will always contain the correct location and time of the next meeting. _______________________________________________ u-u mailing list u-u-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 18:44:00 2012 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 14:44:00 -0400 Subject: more user-friendly than Update manager? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9EDCB3.5070200@chrisaitken.net> <4FA6F876.8060106@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4FA817F0.10503@chrisaitken.net> On 12-05-07 02:25 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Mr Chris Aitken > > | On 12-04-30 03:10 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > |> | From: Mr Chris Aitken > |> > |> | Is there a more user-friendly way to get updates than Update manager? > |> | > |> | I see hundreds of suggested updates for things like Evolution that I don't > |> | even use. > > |> All those updates are for packages that you have installed. > | > | Hmmm. Interesting. I went to uninstall Evolution and it says it was never > | installed... > > Yes, interesting! > > Are you sure that it is asking to update evolution? > > What does this command report: > dpkg --list '*volution*' chris at chris-HP-Compaq-dc5750-Small-Form-Factor:~$ dpkg --list '*volution*' Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ Name Version Description +++-==============-==============-============================================ un evolution (no description available) ii evolution-data 3.2.0-0ubuntu1 evolution database backend server ii evolution-data 3.2.0-0ubuntu1 architecture independent files for Evolution un evolution-data (no description available) un evolution-data (no description available) un libreoffice-ev (no description available) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 18:58:21 2012 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 14:58:21 -0400 Subject: more user-friendly than Update manager? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9EDCB3.5070200@chrisaitken.net> <4FA6F876.8060106@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4FA81B4D.2040007@chrisaitken.net> On 12-05-07 02:25 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Mr Chris Aitken > > | On 12-04-30 03:10 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > |> | From: Mr Chris Aitken > |> > |> | Is there a more user-friendly way to get updates than Update manager? > |> | > |> | I see hundreds of suggested updates for things like Evolution that I don't > |> | even use. > > |> All those updates are for packages that you have installed. > | > | Hmmm. Interesting. I went to uninstall Evolution and it says it was never > | installed... > > Yes, interesting! > > Are you sure that it is asking to update evolution? > > What does this command report: > dpkg --list '*volution*' > > | chris at chris-HP-Compaq-dc5750-Small-Form-Factor:~$ sudo apt-get remove evolution > > | Package evolution is not installed, so not removed > > Odd. Could you try the update-manager again and carfully not which > packages with "volution" in their name that it wants to update? > > You could try: > apt-get --just-print upgrade > This would tell you which packages would be updated. I would be > interested in the output of that command up until the line that looks > like: > 41 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 5 not upgraded. NOTE: This is only a simulation! apt-get needs root privileges for real execution. Also keep in mind that locking is deactivated, so don't depend on the relevance to the real current situation! Reading package lists... Building dependency tree... Reading state information... The following packages have been kept back: linux-generic linux-headers-generic linux-image-generic software-center The following packages will be upgraded: accountsservice acpid aisleriot alsa-utils app-install-data-partner appmenu-qt apport apport-gtk apt apt-transport-https apt-utils aptdaemon aptdaemon-data apturl apturl-common at-spi2-core bamfdaemon banshee banshee-extension-soundmenu banshee-extension-ubuntuonemusicstore baobab bind9-host binutils bluez bluez-alsa bluez-cups bluez-gstreamer brasero brasero-cdrkit brasero-common brltty bzip2 ca-certificates-java checkbox checkbox-gtk colord command-not-found command-not-found-data compiz compiz-core compiz-gnome compiz-plugins-default compiz-plugins-main-default cups cups-bsd cups-client cups-common cups-ppdc deja-dup desktop-file-utils dnsutils dpkg empathy empathy-common eog evince evince-common evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common file-roller firefox firefox-globalmenu firefox-gnome-support firefox-locale-en flashplugin-installer gbrainy gcalctool gconf2 gconf2-common gedit gedit-common ghostscript ghostscript-cups ghostscript-x gir1.2-atspi-2.0 gir1.2-gconf-2.0 gir1.2-gnomebluetooth-1.0 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-gtksource-3.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 gir1.2-unity-4.0 gir1.2-webkit-3.0 gnome-accessibility-themes gnome-bluetooth gnome-control-center gnome-control-center-data gnome-desktop3-data gnome-font-viewer gnome-games-common gnome-icon-theme gnome-keyring gnome-mahjongg gnome-online-accounts gnome-orca gnome-power-manager gnome-screenshot gnome-search-tool gnome-session-canberra gnome-settings-daemon gnome-sudoku gnome-system-log gnome-system-monitor gnome-utils-common gnomine gstreamer0.10-gconf gstreamer0.10-plugins-good gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio gvfs gvfs-backends gvfs-bin gvfs-fuse gwibber gwibber-service gwibber-service-facebook gwibber-service-identica gwibber-service-twitter gzip hpijs hplip hplip-cups hplip-data icedtea-6-jre-cacao icedtea-6-jre-jamvm ifupdown indicator-datetime indicator-session indicator-sound initramfs-tools initramfs-tools-bin initscripts isc-dhcp-client isc-dhcp-common jockey-common jockey-gtk language-pack-en language-pack-gnome-en language-selector-common language-selector-gnome libaccountsservice0 libapt-inst1.3 libapt-pkg4.11 libarchive1 libasound2-plugins libatk-adaptor libatspi2.0-0 libbamf0 libbamf3-0 libbind9-60 libbluetooth3 libbrasero-media3-1 libbrlapi0.5 libbz2-1.0 libc-bin libc-dev-bin libc6 libc6-dev libcamel-1.2-29 libcanberra-gtk-module libcanberra-gtk0 libcanberra-gtk3-0 libcanberra-gtk3-module libcanberra-pulse libcanberra0 libcolord1 libcups2 libcupscgi1 libcupsdriver1 libcupsimage2 libcupsmime1 libcupsppdc1 libcurl3-gnutls libdecoration0 libdns69 libebackend-1.2-1 libebook1.2-12 libecal1.2-10 libedata-book-1.2-11 lilibc-bin libc-dev-bin libc6 libc6-dev libcamel-1.2-29 libcanberra-gtk-module libcanberra-gtk0 libcanberra-gtk3-0 libcanberra-gtk3-module libcanberra-pulse libcanberra0 libcolord1 libcups2 libcupscgi1 libcupsdriver1 libcupsimage2 libcupsmime1 libcupsppdc1 libcurl3-gnutls libdecoration0 libdns69 libebackend-1.2-1 libebook1.2-12 libecal1.2-10 libedata-book-1.2-11 libedata-cal-1.2-13 libedataserver1.2-15 libedataserverui-3.0-1 libevince3-3 libfreetype6 libgail-3-0 libgail-3-common libgck-1-0 libgconf2-4 libgcr-3-1 libgl1-mesa-dri libgl1-mesa-glx libglapi-mesa libglu1-mesa libgnome-bluetooth8 libgnome-control-center1 libgnome-desktop-3-2 libgnutls26 libgoa-1.0-0 libgrip0 libgs9 libgs9-common libgssapi-krb5-2 libgtk-3-0 libgtk-3-bin libgtk-3-common libgtksourceview-3.0-0 libgtksourceview-3.0-common libgudev-1.0-0 libgweather-3-0 libgweather-common libgwibber-gtk2 libgwibber2 libhpmud0 libicu44 libimobiledevice2 libisc62 libisccc60 libisccfg62 libjasper1 libk5crypto3 libkrb5-3 libkrb5support0 libldap-2.4-2 liblightdm-gobject-1-0 liblwres60 libmetacity-private0 libmono-zeroconf1.0-cil libmysqlclient16 libnautilus-extension1 libnm-glib-vpn1 libnm-glib4 libnm-util2 libnotify0.4-cil libnux-1.0-0 bedata-cal-1.2-13 libedataserver1.2-15 libedataserverui-3.0-1 libevince3-3 libfreetype6 libgail-3-0 libgail-3-common libgck-1-0 libgconf2-4 libgcr-3-1 libgl1-mesa-dri libgl1-mesa-glx libglapi-mesa libglu1-mesa libgnome-bluetooth8 libgnome-control-center1 libgnome-desktop-3-2 libgnutls26 libgoa-1.0-0 libgrip0 libgs9 libgs9-common libgssapi-krb5-2 libgtk-3-0 libgtk-3-bin libgtk-3-common libgtksourceview-3.0-0 libgtksourceview-3.0-common libgudev-1.0-0 libgweather-3-0 libgweather-common libgwibber-gtk2 libgwibber2 libhpmud0 libicu44 libimobiledevice2 libisc62 libisccc60 libisccfg62 libjasper1 libk5crypto3 libkrb5-3 libkrb5support0 libldap-2.4-2 liblightdm-gobject-1-0 liblwres60 libmetacity-private0 libmono-zeroconf1.0-cil libmysqlclient16 libnautilus-extension1 libnm-glib-vpn1 libnm-glib4 libnm-util2 libnotify0.4-cil libnux-1.0-0 libnux-1.0-common libpam-gnome-keyring libpam-modules libpam-modules-bin libpam-runtime libpam0g libpng12-0 libpulse-mainloop-glib0 libpulse0 libqt4-dbus libqt4-declarative libqt4-network libqt4-opengl libqt4-script libqt4-sql libqt4-sql-mysql libqt4-svg libqt4-xml libqt4-xmlpatterns libqtcore4 libqtgui4 libreoffice-emailmerge libreoffice-style-human libsane-hpaio libsmbclient libssl1.0.0 libsyncdaemon-1.0-1 libt1-5 libtasn1-3 libtiff4 libtotem0 libubuntuone-1.0-1 libubuntuone1.0-cil libudev0 libunity-2d-private0 libunity-core-4.0-4 libunity6 libusbmuxd1 libv4l-0 libvorbis0a libvorbisenc2 libvorbisfile3 libwbclient0 libwebkitgtk-1.0-0 libwebkitgtk-1.0-common libwebkitgtk-3.0-0 libwebkitgtk-3.0-common libxml2 lightdm linux-libc-dev mawk metacity metacity-common mobile-broadband-provider-info modemmanager mousetweaks multiarch-support mysql-common nautilus nautilus-data nautilus-sendto-empathy network-manager nux-tools onboard openjdk-6-jre openjdk-6-jre-headless openjdk-6-jre-lib openssl pulseaudio pulseaudio-esound-compat pulseaudio-module-bluetooth pulseaudio-module-gconf pulseaudio-module-x11 pulseaudio-utils python-apport python-aptdaemon python-aptdaemon-gtk python-aptdaemon.gtk3widgets python-aptdaemon.gtkwidgets python-brlapi python-cups python-cupshelpers python-gobject python-gobject-cairo python-httplib2 python-launchpadlib python-libxml2 python-pam python-papyon python-pkg-resources python-problem-report python-pyatspi2 python-software-properties python-ubuntuone-client python-ubuntuone-storageprotocol qdbus samba-common samba-common-bin seahorse shotwell simple-scan smbclient sni-qt software-properties-common software-properties-gtk system-config-printer-common system-config-printer-gnome system-config-printer-udev sysv-rc sysvinit-utils telepathy-indicator thunderbird thunderbird-globalmenu thunderbird-gnome-support thunderbird-locale-en thunderbird-locale-en-gb thunderbird-locale-en-us tomboy totem totem-common totem-mozilla totem-plugins ttf-opensymbol tzdata tzdata-java ubuntu-docs ubuntu-sso-client ubuntuone-client ubuntuone-client-gnome ubuntuone-couch udev unity unity-2d unity-2d-launcher unity-2d-panel unity-2d-places unity-2d-spread unity-common unity-lens-applications unity-services update-manager update-manager-core update-notifier update-notifier-common upstart usbmuxd vinagre vino x11-common xorg xserver-common xserver-xorg xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg-input-all xserver-xorg-video-all xserver-xorg-video-intel xserver-xorg-video-openchrome xul-ext-ubufox 390 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 4 not upgraded. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 20:00:21 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 16:00:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: more user-friendly than Update manager? In-Reply-To: <4FA81B4D.2040007-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F9EDCB3.5070200@chrisaitken.net> <4FA6F876.8060106@chrisaitken.net> <4FA81B4D.2040007@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: | From: Mr Chris Aitken Thanks for your supplying the output to help diagnose the issue. | chris at chris-HP-Compaq-dc5750-Small-Form-Factor:~$ dpkg --list '*volution*' | Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold | | | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend | |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) | | |/ Name Version Description | +++-==============-==============-============================================ | un evolution (no description available) | ii evolution-data 3.2.0-0ubuntu1 evolution database backend server | ii evolution-data 3.2.0-0ubuntu1 architecture independent files for Evolution | un evolution-data (no description available) | un evolution-data (no description available) | un libreoffice-ev (no description available) You actually DO have bits (but not all) of evolution. Evolution appears to be spread among several packages. You have two packages with names that start with "evolution-data" installed (unfortunately the report appears to truncate long names). | > apt-get --just-print upgrade | The following packages have been kept back: | linux-generic linux-headers-generic linux-image-generic software-center | The following packages will be upgraded: | accountsservice acpid aisleriot alsa-utils app-install-data-partner | appmenu-qt apport apport-gtk apt apt-transport-https apt-utils aptdaemon | aptdaemon-data apturl apturl-common at-spi2-core bamfdaemon banshee | banshee-extension-soundmenu banshee-extension-ubuntuonemusicstore baobab | bind9-host binutils bluez bluez-alsa bluez-cups bluez-gstreamer brasero | brasero-cdrkit brasero-common brltty bzip2 ca-certificates-java checkbox | checkbox-gtk colord command-not-found command-not-found-data compiz | compiz-core compiz-gnome compiz-plugins-default compiz-plugins-main-default | cups cups-bsd cups-client cups-common cups-ppdc deja-dup desktop-file-utils | dnsutils dpkg empathy empathy-common eog evince evince-common | evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common file-roller firefox ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Updates have been released for both of these packages. That's what update-manager is pestering you about. If you remove them, update-manager should stop pestering you about them. It might be the case that you have other packages that depend on them, making removal difficult. The same approach would work with the other packages update-manager is bugging you about. To be honest, I find it more bother to remove packages that the distro thought might be useful than it is to apply all updates that update-manager suggests. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 20:15:57 2012 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 16:15:57 -0400 Subject: more user-friendly than Update manager? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9EDCB3.5070200@chrisaitken.net> <4FA6F876.8060106@chrisaitken.net> <4FA81B4D.2040007@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4FA82D7D.7060905@chrisaitken.net> Sorry for top-posting here but I figured since my answer is so fresh (and I don't want you to hunt below for non-existent interleaved responses), I would top-post this once... How about I run something like... sudo apt-get remove *volution* ? Chris On 12-05-07 04:00 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Mr Chris Aitken > > Thanks for your supplying the output to help diagnose the issue. > > | chris at chris-HP-Compaq-dc5750-Small-Form-Factor:~$ dpkg --list '*volution*' > | Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold > | | > | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend > | |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) > | | |/ Name Version Description > | +++-==============-==============-============================================ > | un evolution (no description available) > | ii evolution-data 3.2.0-0ubuntu1 evolution database backend server > | ii evolution-data 3.2.0-0ubuntu1 architecture independent files for Evolution > | un evolution-data (no description available) > | un evolution-data (no description available) > | un libreoffice-ev (no description available) > > You actually DO have bits (but not all) of evolution. Evolution > appears to be spread among several packages. You have two packages > with names that start with "evolution-data" installed (unfortunately > the report appears to truncate long names). > > > |> apt-get --just-print upgrade > > | The following packages have been kept back: > | linux-generic linux-headers-generic linux-image-generic software-center > | The following packages will be upgraded: > | accountsservice acpid aisleriot alsa-utils app-install-data-partner > | appmenu-qt apport apport-gtk apt apt-transport-https apt-utils aptdaemon > | aptdaemon-data apturl apturl-common at-spi2-core bamfdaemon banshee > | banshee-extension-soundmenu banshee-extension-ubuntuonemusicstore baobab > | bind9-host binutils bluez bluez-alsa bluez-cups bluez-gstreamer brasero > | brasero-cdrkit brasero-common brltty bzip2 ca-certificates-java checkbox > | checkbox-gtk colord command-not-found command-not-found-data compiz > | compiz-core compiz-gnome compiz-plugins-default compiz-plugins-main-default > | cups cups-bsd cups-client cups-common cups-ppdc deja-dup desktop-file-utils > | dnsutils dpkg empathy empathy-common eog evince evince-common > | evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common file-roller firefox > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Updates have been released for both of these packages. That's what > update-manager is pestering you about. > > If you remove them, update-manager should stop pestering you about > them. It might be the case that you have other packages that depend > on them, making removal difficult. > > The same approach would work with the other packages update-manager is > bugging you about. > > To be honest, I find it more bother to remove packages that the distro > thought might be useful than it is to apply all updates that > update-manager suggests. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 7 23:01:34 2012 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 16:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: more user-friendly than Update manager? In-Reply-To: <4FA82D7D.7060905-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F9EDCB3.5070200@chrisaitken.net> <4FA6F876.8060106@chrisaitken.net> <4FA81B4D.2040007@chrisaitken.net> <4FA82D7D.7060905@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <1336431694.78794.YahooMailNeo@web88616.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ________________________________ From: Mr Chris Aitken To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 4:15:57 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: more user-friendly than Update manager? Sorry for top-posting here but I figured since my answer is so fresh (and I don't want you to hunt below for non-existent interleaved responses), I would top-post this once... How about I run something like... sudo apt-get remove *volution* ? Chris Hi Chris, If you do that, make sure it doesn't try and remove your deskop environment [DE] on you. Some of these things have become "plumbing" for the DE, and removing them would cause the package manager to remove the DE. IMHO, it'd be nice if programs tested for the availabliilty of some funcions, and simply disabled the features whne the underling functions aren't present. Best of luck, -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 00:25:48 2012 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 20:25:48 -0400 Subject: more user-friendly than Update manager? In-Reply-To: <1336431694.78794.YahooMailNeo-Sj0LlwQpbtCvYMxfvLqCK1Z8N9CAUha/QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4F9EDCB3.5070200@chrisaitken.net> <4FA6F876.8060106@chrisaitken.net> <4FA81B4D.2040007@chrisaitken.net> <4FA82D7D.7060905@chrisaitken.net> <1336431694.78794.YahooMailNeo@web88616.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4FA8680C.3050203@chrisaitken.net> On 12-05-07 07:01 PM, DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: > ________________________________ > From: Mr Chris Aitken > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 4:15:57 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: more user-friendly than Update manager? > > > Sorry for top-posting here but I figured since my answer is so fresh (and I don't want you to hunt below for non-existent interleaved responses), I would top-post this once... > > How about I run something like... > > sudo apt-get remove *volution* > > ? > > Chris > > > Hi Chris, > > > If you do that, make sure it doesn't try and remove your deskop environment [DE] on you. Some of these things have become "plumbing" for the DE, and removing them would cause the package manager to remove the DE. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll stick to de-selecting items in update-manager and keep out of trouble. Chris > > > IMHO, it'd be nice if programs tested for the availabliilty of some funcions, and simply disabled the features whne the underling functions aren't present. > > Best of luck, > > > -David > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 01:14:49 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 21:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: more user-friendly than Update manager? In-Reply-To: <4FA8680C.3050203-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F9EDCB3.5070200@chrisaitken.net> <4FA6F876.8060106@chrisaitken.net> <4FA81B4D.2040007@chrisaitken.net> <4FA82D7D.7060905@chrisaitken.net> <1336431694.78794.YahooMailNeo@web88616.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4FA8680C.3050203@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: | From: Mr Chris Aitken | Thanks for the heads-up. I'll stick to de-selecting items in update-manager | and keep out of trouble. I really think that if you are keeping packages, you should update them. If you are keeping them, it is because you think that something might be using them. If they have security holes or bugs, then those bugs might get triggered. Another argument: you should be updating regularly. Each time you update, you will have to deselect the same boring packages. Actually letting the package update (once, probably) will take less time than deselecting the update N times. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue May 8 01:51:15 2012 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 21:51:15 -0400 Subject: more user-friendly than Update manager? In-Reply-To: References: <4F9EDCB3.5070200@chrisaitken.net> <4FA6F876.8060106@chrisaitken.net> <4FA81B4D.2040007@chrisaitken.net> <4FA82D7D.7060905@chrisaitken.net> <1336431694.78794.YahooMailNeo@web88616.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4FA8680C.3050203@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4FA87C13.4030507@chrisaitken.net> On 12-05-07 09:14 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Mr Chris Aitken > > | Thanks for the heads-up. I'll stick to de-selecting items in update-manager > | and keep out of trouble. > > I really think that if you are keeping packages, you should update > them. If you are keeping them, it is because you think that something > might be using them. If they have security holes or bugs, then those > bugs might get triggered. > > Another argument: you should be updating regularly. Each time you > update, you will have to deselect the same boring packages. Actually > letting the package update (once, probably) will take less time than > deselecting the update N times. Yeah, I guess if I'm not short on hard disk space I should just let all the updates run. I guess I still have a little of that MS-inspired fear (though I haven't used MS for anything other than digital music recording on a standalone box for decades) that the more unnecessary stuff I have on the computer the slower it will run. I guess i should relax with linux... Chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 01:02:57 2012 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 21:02:57 -0400 Subject: OT: FreeRunner Neo and OLPC XO-1 Message-ID: Hey everyone, I figured I'd post here to see if anyone would be interested in these two items. Both of them work, come with their original wall chargers, as well as 2GB SD cards. I'll wipe either of them to factory defaults so that they are like new when you get them. The OpenMoko FreeRunner Neo is an open source, at hardware and software level, phone/portable media device. I had a company in Europe fix an antenna and GPS hardware bugs, as well as the notorious buzz fix. It comes with a neoprene carrying case, 2 original batteries, and a 2GB micro-SD card. The coolest thing about this device is that there's a revision 4 of it out now that is a drop in replacement board to make it a more modern smartphone. Details on the FreeRunner: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner Info on the GTA04 upgrade motherboard here: http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/ As for the OLPC XO-1, it's from the original Give 1 Get 1 (g1g1) program, so it's the first consumer ready hardware from OLPC. I'll restore it to factory default Sugar Linux and include the developer key so that you can install whatever OS you want on it. It's an amazing piece of hardware and has one of the best screens I've ever used, capable of switching from black and white to full color, so as to accomodate direct light down to low lighting situations. OLPC XO-1 details: http://laptop.org/en/laptop/hardware/specs.shtml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1 If you are interested, make me an offer off-list at grazer-Re5JQEeQqe9fmgfxC/sS/w at public.gmane.org I'm cleaning house with a baby on the way, so I'm clearing out some of my "toys" that I rarely use. Thanks! -jason PS: Oh, and I'm on the west side of downtown Toronto, Dundas and Dovercourt area, but could probably deliver or arrange a pickup most anywhere in Toronto. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 9 12:35:52 2012 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 08:35:52 -0400 Subject: OT: FreeRunner Neo and OLPC XO-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, it was brought to my attention that I failed to mention a price. Make me a reasonable offer. I want them in the hands of people who will use them, instead of on a shelf in my house. Thanks and sorry for forgetting that detail. -jason On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Jason Shaw wrote: > Hey everyone, I figured I'd post here to see if anyone would be interested > in these two items. Both of them work, come with their original wall > chargers, as well as 2GB SD cards. I'll wipe either of them to factory > defaults so that they are like new when you get them. > > The OpenMoko FreeRunner Neo is an open source, at hardware and software > level, phone/portable media device. I had a company in Europe fix an > antenna and GPS hardware bugs, as well as the notorious buzz fix. It comes > with a neoprene carrying case, 2 original batteries, and a 2GB micro-SD > card. The coolest thing about this device is that there's a revision 4 of > it out now that is a drop in replacement board to make it a more modern > smartphone. > > Details on the FreeRunner: > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner > > Info on the GTA04 upgrade motherboard here: > http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/ > > As for the OLPC XO-1, it's from the original Give 1 Get 1 (g1g1) program, > so it's the first consumer ready hardware from OLPC. I'll restore it to > factory default Sugar Linux and include the developer key so that you can > install whatever OS you want on it. It's an amazing piece of hardware and > has one of the best screens I've ever used, capable of switching from black > and white to full color, so as to accomodate direct light down to low > lighting situations. > > OLPC XO-1 details: > http://laptop.org/en/laptop/hardware/specs.shtml > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1 > > If you are interested, make me an offer off-list at grazer-Re5JQEeQqe9fmgfxC/sS/w at public.gmane.org I'm > cleaning house with a baby on the way, so I'm clearing out some of my > "toys" that I rarely use. > > Thanks! > -jason > > PS: Oh, and I'm on the west side of downtown Toronto, Dundas and > Dovercourt area, but could probably deliver or arrange a pickup most > anywhere in Toronto. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 19:24:00 2012 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:24:00 -0400 Subject: Debian Administrator's Handbook Message-ID: Debian developer Raphael Hertzog has completed the translation into English of his "Debian Administrator's Handbook" and its now released under free licenses in various formats: http://debian-handbook.info/2012/the-debian-administrators-handbook-is-available/ ... including online: http://static.debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/ Looks good! -- ? .~. ? /V\ ?//? \\ /(??? )\ ?^`~`^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 10 23:00:40 2012 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 19:00:40 -0400 Subject: Cfengine hosting a training session Message-ID: <20120510230040.GD9366@watson-wilson.ca> Greetings, For any that are interested there Cfengine is hosting a training session this month in Toronto. I'll be there also. http://cfengine3toronto.eventbrite.com/ Sincerely, -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 11 04:35:07 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 00:35:07 -0400 Subject: Debian Administrator's Handbook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the link Daniel! On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Daniel Wayne Armstrong < daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Debian developer Raphael Hertzog has completed the translation into > English of his "Debian Administrator's Handbook" and its now released > under free licenses in various formats: > > > http://debian-handbook.info/2012/the-debian-administrators-handbook-is-available/ > > ... including online: > > http://static.debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/ > > Looks good! > > -- > .~. > /V\ > // \\ > /( )\ > ^`~`^ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 16:29:17 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 12:29:17 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? Message-ID: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi all, How do you check your external IP? I know about , but I would like to know other sites. I usually go to my router's webpage. But, my new router has fancy Java enabled webpage that I can't log in using Lynx. So, I can't script it. My plan is to send email to myself if IP changes. :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 16:31:43 2012 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 12:31:43 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120512162917.GA28032-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4FAE906F.3080206@gmail.com> On 05/12/2012 12:29 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > How do you check your external IP? I know about, but I > would like to know other sites. > > I usually go to my router's webpage. But, my new router has fancy Java > enabled webpage that I can't log in using Lynx. So, I can't script it. > My plan is to send email to myself if IP changes. :-) tracert.com ip will show in text box if you traceroute or ping, etc. -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 16:32:17 2012 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 12:32:17 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120512162917.GA28032-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: I usually do this: curl -q http://icanhazip.com/ That supports IPv6 as well, I have it set up as an alias in my zsh config On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 12:29 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > How do you check your external IP? I know about , but I > would like to know other sites. > > I usually go to my router's webpage. But, my new router has fancy Java > enabled webpage that I can't log in using Lynx. So, I can't script it. > My plan is to send email to myself if IP changes. :-) > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Sadiq S http://asininetech.com https://launchpad.net/~staticsafe https://github.com/staticsafe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 17:45:10 2012 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 13:45:10 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120512174510.GB26615@watson-wilson.ca> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 12:32:17PM -0400, Sadiq Saif wrote: > I usually do this: > curl -q [1]http://icanhazip.com/ That is awesome. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 18:50:35 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 14:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <4FAE906F.3080206-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FAE906F.3080206@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Ted | ip will show in text box if you traceroute or ping, etc. That works if you are doing the ping or traceroute on the interface that has the external IP address. Most people are behind NAPT and thus they would have to issue the command on the router, not their computer. If you are on the box with the interface with external IP address, there are a million ways to find the IP address. The old fashioned one is ifconfig. The newspeak way is ip addr show (I had to look it up). Others have come up with good suggestions for the case where your box is behind NAPT (htp://icanhascheezburger.com). It even works in the non-NAPT case but is overkill. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 19:01:44 2012 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 15:01:44 -0400 Subject: more user-friendly than Update manager? In-Reply-To: <4FA87C13.4030507-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F9EDCB3.5070200@chrisaitken.net> <4FA6F876.8060106@chrisaitken.net> <4FA81B4D.2040007@chrisaitken.net> <4FA82D7D.7060905@chrisaitken.net> <1336431694.78794.YahooMailNeo@web88616.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4FA8680C.3050203@chrisaitken.net> <4FA87C13.4030507@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4FAEB398.1020602@dinamis.com> On 05/07/2012 09:51 PM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Yeah, I guess if I'm not short on hard disk space I should just let all > the updates run. I guess I still have a little of that MS-inspired fear > (though I haven't used MS for anything other than digital music > recording on a standalone box for decades) that the more unnecessary > stuff I have on the computer the slower it will run. I guess i should > relax with linux... Today's Fedora 16 updates on my machine consisted of 148 packages totalling 305M. Deltarpm reduced that to 24M. It only took a couple of minutes for the whole process. I'm not concerned about disk space or memory footprint since I have lots of both. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3230 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 20:06:52 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 16:06:52 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <13006_1336840486_q4CGYj90016417_20120512162917.GA28032-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <13006_1336840486_q4CGYj90016417_20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120512200652.GA19241@amber> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 12:29:17PM -0400, William Park wrote: > How do you check your external IP? I know about , but I > would like to know other sites. > > I usually go to my router's webpage. But, my new router has fancy Java > enabled webpage that I can't log in using Lynx. So, I can't script it. > My plan is to send email to myself if IP changes. :-) What a great idea! I've been bitten by such external IP changes while far away from the machine, and it would be great to have a solid script to email me the change, so I wouldn't have to try to talk someone through it at long distance (or give away any passwords). Post one if you write it! -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 20:14:27 2012 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 16:14:27 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120512162917.GA28032-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: > I usually go to my router's webpage. ?But, my new router has fancy Java > enabled webpage that I can't log in using Lynx. ?So, I can't script it. > My plan is to send email to myself if IP changes. ?:-) If you just want to check the IP, that's been well covered, but isn't a better idea to have a name that tracks the IP so you don't need to care what the IP is? I use both ZoneEdit and DynDNS names in this way. Many routers have built-in support for these services now which means you don't even need to run a client on the machine. If you want/need the email too, a client on a machine behind the router might be nicer though as I don't recall seeing a 'mail me' option in any of the routers that sport dyndns updaters. HTH. -Ben -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Walton Take the risk of thinking for yourself. ?Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 20:28:15 2012 From: cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Charles Philip Chan) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 16:28:15 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120512200652.GA19241@amber> (Peter King's message of "Sat, 12 May 2012 16:06:52 -0400") References: <13006_1336840486_q4CGYj90016417_20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120512200652.GA19241@amber> Message-ID: Peter King writes: > What a great idea! I've been bitten by such external IP changes while > far away from the machine, and it would be great to have a solid > script to email me the change, so I wouldn't have to try to talk > someone through it at long distance (or give away any passwords). Post > one if you write it! Why not just use a dynamic DNS service (such as noip[1] or dyndns[2]) and have your router update the dynanic DNS entry (if it supports it) or use ddclient[3]? ddclient is part of most distros. Charles Footnotes: [1] http://www.no-ip.com/ [2] http://dyn.com/dns/ [3] http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/ddclient -- "MSDOS didn't get as bad as it is overnight -- it took over ten years of careful development." (By dmeggins-O+iUfyENXkEL07fRTtiDAw at public.gmane.org) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 20:31:16 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 13:31:16 -0700 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120512162917.GA28032-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: www.ipchicken.com no better than others, but the name is amusing. On May 12, 2012 9:30 AM, "William Park" wrote: > Hi all, > > How do you check your external IP? I know about , but I > would like to know other sites. > > I usually go to my router's webpage. But, my new router has fancy Java > enabled webpage that I can't log in using Lynx. So, I can't script it. > My plan is to send email to myself if IP changes. :-) > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 20:32:10 2012 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 16:32:10 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FAE906F.3080206@gmail.com> Message-ID: I issue it on private inside ip, it shows my Rogers assigned public as desired. Tl On May 12, 2012 2:51 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > | From: Ted > > | ip will show in text box if you traceroute or ping, etc. > > That works if you are doing the ping or traceroute on the interface > that has the external IP address. Most people are behind NAPT and > thus they would have to issue the command on the router, not their > computer. > > If you are on the box with the interface with external IP address, > there are a million ways to find the IP address. The old fashioned > one is ifconfig. The newspeak way is ip addr show (I had to look it > up). > > Others have come up with good suggestions for the case where your box > is behind NAPT (htp://icanhascheezburger.com). It even works in the > non-NAPT case but is overkill. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 20:37:41 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 16:37:41 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120512162917.GA28032-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4FAECA15.8090606@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > How do you check your external IP? I know about, but I > would like to know other sites. > > I usually go to my router's webpage. But, my new router has fancy Java > enabled webpage that I can't log in using Lynx. So, I can't script it. > My plan is to send email to myself if IP changes. :-) What ISP are you using? If Rogers, you have a virtually static IP and a static host name. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 20:44:44 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 16:44:44 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4FAECBBC.1040601@rogers.com> Sadiq Saif wrote: > I usually do this: > curl -q http://icanhazip.com/ > > That supports IPv6 as well, I have it set up as an alias in my zsh config The only problem with that it recent versions of Linux, Windows etc. have more than one unicast IPv6 address. There's one based on your MAC address and one or more based on a random number. If you go to an address check site, such as this one, it will likely show the random number address, rather than the MAC based. However, the MAC based address is the one you'd have DNS point to. MAC based addresses tend to be static, unless you change ISPs. I have about 4 sextillion IPv6 addresses in my subnet. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 20:49:40 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 16:49:40 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120512200652.GA19241@amber> References: <13006_1336840486_q4CGYj90016417_20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120512200652.GA19241@amber> Message-ID: <4FAECCE4.1020304@rogers.com> Peter King wrote: > On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 12:29:17PM -0400, William Park wrote: > >> How do you check your external IP? I know about, but I >> would like to know other sites. >> >> I usually go to my router's webpage. But, my new router has fancy Java >> enabled webpage that I can't log in using Lynx. So, I can't script it. >> My plan is to send email to myself if IP changes. :-) > What a great idea! I've been bitten by such external IP changes while far > away from the machine, and it would be great to have a solid script to > email me the change, so I wouldn't have to try to talk someone through it > at long distance (or give away any passwords). Post one if you write it! > You can set up a static IPv6 address or subnet, by using a 6in4 tunnel. You can get clients for Linux, Windows & MAC. I got mine through gogonet.gogo6.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 20:51:14 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 16:51:14 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4FAECD42.2040500@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > > www.ipchicken.com > > no better than others, but the name is amusing. > It doesn't show IPv6 addresses. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 20:52:35 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 16:52:35 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FAE906F.3080206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4FAECD93.2060102@rogers.com> ted leslie wrote: > I issue it on private inside ip, it shows my Rogers assigned public as > desired. > Tl With Rogers, you have a virtually static IP and a static host name, based on your firewall and modem MAC addresses. That IPchicken site shows your host name. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 21:38:39 2012 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 17:38:39 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <4FAECD93.2060102-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FAE906F.3080206@gmail.com> <4FAECD93.2060102@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FAED85F.7060900@dinamis.com> On 05/12/2012 04:52 PM, James Knott wrote: > ted leslie wrote: >> I issue it on private inside ip, it shows my Rogers assigned public as >> desired. When I used to use Rogers, I had set up a CNAME for the cpe-bla-bla-bla hostname that they provided. It worked quite well for me. TekSavvy cable doesn't provide a hostname but the IP address hasn't changed since I started using them in December so I set up an A record for the TS IP address. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3230 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 21:45:31 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 17:45:31 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <4FAECA15.8090606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FAECA15.8090606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120512214531.GA19489@amber> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 04:37:41PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > What ISP are you using? If Rogers, you have a virtually static IP and a > static host name. It doesn't change often, but it does change, and if you're in a different hemisphere when that happens -- like I am now, when it changed the day before yesterday -- you need a solution that can be triggered remotely. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 22:07:16 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:07:16 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120512214531.GA19489@amber> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FAECA15.8090606@rogers.com> <20120512214531.GA19489@amber> Message-ID: <4FAEDF14.7050904@rogers.com> Peter King wrote: > On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 04:37:41PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> What ISP are you using? If Rogers, you have a virtually static IP and a >> static host name. > It doesn't change often, but it does change, and if you're in a different > hemisphere when that happens -- like I am now, when it changed the day before > yesterday -- you need a solution that can be triggered remotely. > Your host name will not change without changing hardware. It is based on those MAC addresses. While I could use that host name directly, I use a DNS server to create an alias for it to my own domain name. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Sat May 12 22:09:12 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120512162917.GA28032-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 May 2012, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > How do you check your external IP? I know about , but I > would like to know other sites. > > I usually go to my router's webpage. But, my new router has fancy Java > enabled webpage that I can't log in using Lynx. So, I can't script it. > My plan is to send email to myself if IP changes. :-) http://cfaj.freeshell.org/ipaddr.cgi -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 00:05:40 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 20:05:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FAE906F.3080206@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: ted leslie | > | ip will show in text box if you traceroute or ping, etc. | I issue it on private inside ip, it shows my Rogers assigned public as | desired. Really? Not on my interior machines. [hugh at redclaw ~]$ ping -c1 gmail.com PING gmail.com (74.125.226.54) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from yyz06s06-in-f22.1e100.net (74.125.226.54): icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=9.07 ms --- gmail.com ping statistics --- 1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 9.070/9.070/9.070/0.000 ms [hugh at redclaw ~]$ The outward-facing IP address of my gateway does not show up traceroute output either. If I do the ping on my gateway machine, it has an older ping that does show the source IP and that source IP is the outward facing one. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 00:59:56 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 20:59:56 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120513005956.GA30349@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 04:14:27PM -0400, Ben Walton wrote: > > I usually go to my router's webpage. ?But, my new router has fancy Java > > enabled webpage that I can't log in using Lynx. ?So, I can't script it. > > My plan is to send email to myself if IP changes. ?:-) > > If you just want to check the IP, that's been well covered, but isn't > a better idea to have a name that tracks the IP so you don't need to > care what the IP is? I use both ZoneEdit and DynDNS names in this > way. Many routers have built-in support for these services now which > means you don't even need to run a client on the machine. If you > want/need the email too, a client on a machine behind the router might > be nicer though as I don't recall seeing a 'mail me' option in any of > the routers that sport dyndns updaters. My new router is DIR-655, and it has offer of free account at DLinkDDNS.com. But, DLinkDDNS.com shows the saved IP and connecting IP, and gives you text box to enter the new IP, which means you can only use it from home. Also, before you can update dynamic DNS sites, you have to know your new IP. My issue is how to script it. Once you know your new IP, you can update DNS or email it to yourself. For my purpose, emailing to myself is sufficient. Besides, the free DNS has names that I probably won't remember. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 01:02:57 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 21:02:57 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <4FAECA15.8090606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FAECA15.8090606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120513010257.GB30349@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 04:37:41PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > William Park wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >How do you check your external IP? I know about, but I > >would like to know other sites. > > > >I usually go to my router's webpage. But, my new router has fancy Java > >enabled webpage that I can't log in using Lynx. So, I can't script it. > >My plan is to send email to myself if IP changes. :-) > > What ISP are you using? If Rogers, you have a virtually static IP and a > static host name. I'm using Teksavvy Cable. I don't think they give host name. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 01:10:24 2012 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 21:10:24 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120513005956.GA30349-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120513005956.GA30349@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: > Also, before you can update dynamic DNS sites, you have to know your new > IP. ?My issue is how to script it. ?Once you know your new IP, you can > update DNS or email it to yourself. ?For my purpose, emailing to myself > is sufficient. ?Besides, the free DNS has names that I probably won't > remember. Many of the clients simply rely on the server side using the source IP of the connection as the new IP and prevent abuse by requiring authentication. I wrote a dns-o-matic client that fetches the IP from http://myip.dnsomatic.com and then submits an update request to the proper URL if the cached value differed. It's the dnsomatic gem if you want to poke at it. (I'd make many changes to it if I wanted to update it now...including vastly simplifying the over-engineered config system.) The dns-o-matic service (part of opendns) will update multiple dynamic name services. I use dyndns and zoneedit. Using zoneedit, you can update values for any domain you own and aren't limited to some of the awful free domain names. HTH -Ben -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Walton Take the risk of thinking for yourself. ?Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 01:32:10 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 21:32:10 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120512162917.GA28032-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120513013210.GA31185@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 12:29:17PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > How do you check your external IP? I know about , but I > would like to know other sites. > > I usually go to my router's webpage. But, my new router has fancy Java > enabled webpage that I can't log in using Lynx. So, I can't script it. > My plan is to send email to myself if IP changes. :-) Ok, here is what I've able to collect. Below script determines my external IP (randomly from 6 sites), and emails to myself only if IP has changed. There are 3 parameters: EMAIL, NEW, OLD. Right now, I have it running every hour. I could probably run it more frequently, but /etc/cron.hourly is the shortest interval without writing my own crontab. #!/bin/sh EMAIL= # your email address NEW=~/checkip.new # file containing new IP OLD=~/checkip.old # file containing old IP case $(( $RANDOM % 6 )) in 0) lynx -dump http://cfaj.freeshell.org/ipaddr.cgi ;; 1) lynx -dump http://checkip.dyndns.org/ | grep 'Current IP Address:' ;; 2) lynx -dump http://icanhazip.com/ ;; 3) lynx -dump http://ipchicken.com/ | grep 'Name Address:' | sed -e 's/.*: \([0-9-]\+\).*/\1/' -e 's/-/./g' ;; 4) lynx -dump http://myip.dnsdynamic.com/ ;; 5) lynx -dump http://whatismyip.com/ | grep 'Your IP Address Is:' ;; esac | tr -c -d '0-9.' > $NEW if test -s $NEW && ! diff -q $NEW $OLD 1>/dev/null; then mutt $EMAIL -s "newip = $(< $NEW)" < /dev/null mv $NEW $OLD fi -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 01:44:34 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 21:44:34 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120513010257.GB30349-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FAECA15.8090606@rogers.com> <20120513010257.GB30349@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4FAF1202.5010204@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > I'm using Teksavvy Cable. I don't think they give host name. Go to that IPchicken site and see if there is one. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 08:19:25 2012 From: cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Charles Philip Chan) Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 04:19:25 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120513005956.GA30349-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> (William Park's message of "Sat, 12 May 2012 20:59:56 -0400") References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120513005956.GA30349@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: William Park writes: > Also, before you can update dynamic DNS sites, you have to know your > new IP. My issue is how to script it. Once you know your new IP, you > can update DNS or email it to yourself. A router that supports dynamic DNS server updates the record automatically. Barring that, like I said, you can use ddclient which does the same thing- you run it either as a daemon or through a cron job. > Besides, the free DNS has names that I probably won't remember. Why is it hard? You just choose a domain from a pool that they offer and you choose your own host name. Charles -- "Problem solving under linux has never been the circus that it is under AIX." (By Pete Ehlke in comp.unix.aix) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 13 13:51:58 2012 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 13:51:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: How do you check your external IP? References: <13006_1336840486_q4CGYj90016417_20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120512200652.GA19241@amber> <4FAECCE4.1020304@rogers.com> Message-ID: Use a website like myip.com or enable snmp on the router and finger it for the needed information using a snmp agent. The myip.com output can be parsed easily to yield a ip. Using dyndns is not mandated in most cases when myip is needed. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 16:29:10 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:29:10 -0400 Subject: 680news says Byron Sonne acquitted of explosive charges. Message-ID: <20120515162910.GA9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> So that's good at least. Another verdict is apparently still to come. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 17:20:45 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 13:20:45 -0400 Subject: 680news says Byron Sonne acquitted of explosive charges. In-Reply-To: <20120515162910.GA9110-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120515162910.GA9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > So that's good at least. ?Another verdict is apparently still to come. Not Guilty on all charges: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/05/15/toronto-byron-sonne.html -- http://scruss.com/blog/ - 73 de VA3PID -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 17:58:51 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 13:58:51 -0400 Subject: 680news says Byron Sonne acquitted of explosive charges. In-Reply-To: References: <20120515162910.GA9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Neat > wrote: >> So that's good at least. ?Another verdict is apparently still to come. > > Not Guilty on all charges: > http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/05/15/toronto-byron-sonne.html > Petty good news William > -- > http://scruss.com/blog/ - 73 de VA3PID > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 18:55:52 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 11:55:52 -0700 Subject: 680news says Byron Sonne acquitted of explosive charges. In-Reply-To: References: <20120515162910.GA9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: it almost seems like a Pyrric victory. Name dragged through the mud Wife charged, ended in divorce Lost his house Sad that somebody who is not guilty can still pay such a price. On May 15, 2012 10:21 AM, "Stewart Russell" wrote: > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > So that's good at least. Another verdict is apparently still to come. > > Not Guilty on all charges: > > http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/05/15/toronto-byron-sonne.html > > -- > http://scruss.com/blog/ - 73 de VA3PID > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 19:08:39 2012 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 15:08:39 -0400 Subject: 680news says Byron Sonne acquitted of explosive charges. In-Reply-To: References: <20120515162910.GA9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4FB2A9B7.5000001@gmail.com> On 05/15/2012 02:55 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > it almost seems like a Pyrric victory. > Name dragged through the mud > Wife charged, ended in divorce > Lost his house > > Sad that somebody who is not guilty can still pay such a price. > You are not factoring in the 10's of millions he will probably get from a wrongly "this that and the other" suit? Seriously, i would be really surprised if we weren't giving him at least a few million in damages of the next few years. As I said before some heads have to roll over this one, crown, cops, Byron, who knows, hopefully Byron's counter damages suit will at a min. cause some of the heads to roll. -tl > On May 15, 2012 10:21 AM, "Stewart Russell" > wrote: > > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Lennart Sorensen > > wrote: > > So that's good at least. Another verdict is apparently still to > come. > > Not Guilty on all charges: > http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/05/15/toronto-byron-sonne.html > > -- > http://scruss.com/blog/ - 73 de VA3PID > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 19:17:56 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 15:17:56 -0400 Subject: 680news says Byron Sonne acquitted of explosive charges. In-Reply-To: <4FB2A9B7.5000001-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20120515162910.GA9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4FB2A9B7.5000001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4FB2ABE4.40705@rogers.com> On 12-05-15 03:08 PM, Ted wrote: > On 05/15/2012 02:55 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> it almost seems like a Pyrric victory. >> Name dragged through the mud >> Wife charged, ended in divorce >> Lost his house >> >> Sad that somebody who is not guilty can still pay such a price. >> > > You are not factoring in the 10's of millions he will probably get > from a wrongly "this that and the other" suit? > Seriously, i would be really surprised if we weren't giving him at > least a few million in damages of the next few years. > As I said before some heads have to roll over this one, crown, cops, > Byron, who knows, hopefully Byron's counter damages suit > will at a min. cause some of the heads to roll. > Not very likely in Canada. Sonne would have to prove malice. And that is very difficult to do. I do agree with that, but that is the law in Canada. Stephen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 19:20:29 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 15:20:29 -0400 Subject: 680news says Byron Sonne acquitted of explosive charges. In-Reply-To: <4FB2ABE4.40705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120515162910.GA9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4FB2A9B7.5000001@gmail.com> <4FB2ABE4.40705@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FB2AC7D.4070808@rogers.com> On 12-05-15 03:17 PM, Stephen wrote: > On 12-05-15 03:08 PM, Ted wrote: >> On 05/15/2012 02:55 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >>> >>> it almost seems like a Pyrric victory. >>> Name dragged through the mud >>> Wife charged, ended in divorce >>> Lost his house >>> >>> Sad that somebody who is not guilty can still pay such a price. >>> >> >> You are not factoring in the 10's of millions he will probably get >> from a wrongly "this that and the other" suit? >> Seriously, i would be really surprised if we weren't giving him at >> least a few million in damages of the next few years. >> As I said before some heads have to roll over this one, crown, cops, >> Byron, who knows, hopefully Byron's counter damages suit >> will at a min. cause some of the heads to roll. >> > Not very likely in Canada. > > Sonne would have to prove malice. > > And that is very difficult to do. > > I do agree with that, but that is the law in Canada. > > Stephen I ***do not agree*** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 20:14:15 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:14:15 -0400 Subject: 680news says Byron Sonne acquitted of explosive charges. In-Reply-To: References: <20120515162910.GA9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120515201415.GE19853@amber> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:55:52AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Name dragged through the mud > Wife charged, ended in divorce > Lost his house > > Sad that somebody who is not guilty can still pay such a price. That is, of course, one of the ways in which "justice" is done... the net effect is to deter others from even *appearing* to break the law (since Sonne has not been found guilty of breaking any law after all), and thus as a means of social control... Welcome to the justice system nowadays. Even if he were to recover money in damages (and like others I'm doubtful since wrongful arrest requires proof of malicious intent), that wouldn't bring back his wife. Nor does money make up for the trauma of losing your house, being divorced, and so on. Of course, given that he's gone through all that, it would be better if he were given money / restitution / etc., but it isn't likely. Sad indeed. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 20:55:08 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:55:08 -0400 Subject: 680news says Byron Sonne acquitted of explosive charges. In-Reply-To: <20120515201415.GE19853@amber> References: <20120515162910.GA9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120515201415.GE19853@amber> Message-ID: On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Peter King wrote: > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:55:52AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> ? ?Name dragged through the mud >> ? ?Wife charged, ended in divorce >> ? ?Lost his house >> >> ? ?Sad that somebody who is not guilty can still pay such a price. > > That is, of course, one of the ways in which "justice" is done... the net > effect is to deter others from even *appearing* to break the law (since > Sonne has not been found guilty of breaking any law after all), and thus > as a means of social control... Welcome to the justice system nowadays. > > Even if he were to recover money in damages (and like others I'm doubtful > since wrongful arrest requires proof of malicious intent), that wouldn't > bring back his wife. Nor does money make up for the trauma of losing your > house, being divorced, and so on. Of course, given that he's gone through > all that, it would be better if he were given money / restitution / etc., > but it isn't likely. > > Sad indeed. Well, I'm not sure that this represents a "fix" that I'd particularly want to see. To add a burden to the police that they'll have to budget for "reparations" any time they find a plausible perpetrator that mightn't turn out to be guilty seems troublesome. That may encourage them to not pursue cases, and that doesn't sound like a particularly wonderful outcome. Part of how I view this case is that Byron "poked a stick" at those that are (fairly properly) tasked as 'wolves,' and that the outcome involved a certain amount of "toothy reaction" shouldn't come as any surprise. The unrelenting nature of the response seems unfair, though it is also fairly unsurprising, as there are government folk keen on justifying a project on which they spent a boatload of money. I suppose it should be rather embarrassing that they didn't get charges to stick. That is not of terribly practical use for Byron in rebuilding things after his losses. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 15 21:38:46 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 17:38:46 -0400 Subject: 680news says Byron Sonne acquitted of explosive charges. In-Reply-To: References: <20120515162910.GA9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120515201415.GE19853@amber> Message-ID: <20120515213846.GB9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 04:55:08PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > Well, I'm not sure that this represents a "fix" that I'd particularly > want to see. > > To add a burden to the police that they'll have to budget for > "reparations" any time they find a plausible perpetrator that mightn't > turn out to be guilty seems troublesome. That may encourage them to > not pursue cases, and that doesn't sound like a particularly wonderful > outcome. Well to some extent there should also be an incentive to not harass people. > Part of how I view this case is that Byron "poked a stick" at those > that are (fairly properly) tasked as 'wolves,' and that the outcome > involved a certain amount of "toothy reaction" shouldn't come as any > surprise. While poking things with a stick isn't something I would normally be interested in doing, I think he should be allowed to do so. > The unrelenting nature of the response seems unfair, though it is also > fairly unsurprising, as there are government folk keen on justifying a > project on which they spent a boatload of money. > > I suppose it should be rather embarrassing that they didn't get > charges to stick. That is not of terribly practical use for Byron in > rebuilding things after his losses. Well personally I am not at all worried about terrorist attacks. I am much more concerned about the harm that the people claiming to be working to prevent terrorism are causing. I know for sure they are causing harm, while terrorist attacks are pretty darn rare. Byron may have pocked a stick at stuff, but he wasn't the one that spent 1 billion dollars on a fancy party for his buddies while disrupting the lives and businesses of hundres of thousands of people. Harper is the one that should have been arrested, and I want my share of the tax money back he wasted on that stupid event. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 05:18:59 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 01:18:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu 12.04 won't install due to odd partitioning Message-ID: I have a notebook on which I previously installed Ubuntu 8.04 and 10.04 and I want to install 12.04 (over 8.04). See a pattern? I want the latest LTS and the one before. When I try to install 12.04, and ask to configure the partitions, the installer sees none. And gives no explanation! I exited the installer (this is a live DVD of Ubuntu 12.04 for AMD64) and run parted from the console, it prints a terse message to stderr: ====================== libparted : 2.3 ====================== Can't have a partition outside the disk! A hint. But not too explicit: it doesn't say what partition. Here what fdisk says (decorated with labels from the partitions): Disk /dev/sda: 120.0 GB, 120034123776 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 14593 cylinders Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk identifier: 0x17a417a4 Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 1 1020 8193116 27 Unknown Partition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary. /dev/sda2 * 1021 6368 42957804+ 7 HPFS/NTFS /dev/sda3 6369 7388 8193148 83 Linux: Ubuntu8.04 /dev/sda4 7389 14594 57882195 f W95 Ext'd (LBA) /dev/sda5 7389 8153 6144820 82 Linux swap / Solaris /dev/sda6 8154 13573 43536116 83 Linux: /home /dev/sda7 13574 14594 8195072 83 Linux: Ubuntu10.04 It all looks good: all the cylinder numbers make sense. But it turns out that (120034123776 bytes/disk) / (8225280 bytes/cylinder) = 14593.31764705882352941176 cylinders/disk NOT 14593 as fdisk reported. So: the extended partition sda4 and the last partion within it, sda7 extend into this fractional final partition. Any block past (8225280 bytes/cylinder) * (14593 cylinders/disk) / (512 bytes/block) = 234436545 blocks is in the fractional extra cylinder. You can see this with "sfdisk -u S" output: Disk /dev/sda: 14593 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 sectors/track Units = sectors of 512 bytes, counting from 0 Device Boot Start End #sectors Id System /dev/sda1 63 16386294 16386232 27 Hidden NTFS WinRE /dev/sda2 * 16386300 102301908 85915609 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sda3 102301920 118688215 16386296 83 Linux /dev/sda4 118688220 234452609 115764390 f W95 Ext'd (LBA) /dev/sda5 118688283 130977922 12289640 82 Linux swap / Solaris /dev/sda6 130978008 218050239 87072232 83 Linux /dev/sda7 218050560 234440703 16390144 83 Linux Warning: partition 4 extends past end of disk Interestingly, there is a bit of unused space after sda7 still within sda4. But I still would have expected a warning about sda7 going past the end of the disk. If I use "sfdisk" without flags, I get a lot of cylinder numbers decorated with + and - suffixes that indicate rounding. Disk /dev/sda: 14593 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 sectors/track Units = cylinders of 8225280 bytes, blocks of 1024 bytes, counting from 0 Device Boot Start End #cyls #blocks Id System /dev/sda1 0+ 1019- 1020- 8193116 27 Hidden NTFS WinRE /dev/sda2 * 1020 6367- 5348- 42957804+ 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT /dev/sda3 6368 7387- 1020- 8193148 83 Linux /dev/sda4 7388 14593 7206 57882195 f W95 Ext'd (LBA) /dev/sda5 7388+ 8152- 765- 6144820 82 Linux swap / Solaris /dev/sda6 8153+ 13572- 5420- 43536116 83 Linux /dev/sda7 13573+ 14593- 1021- 8195072 83 Linux Warning: partition 4 extends past end of disk Cylinder numbers seem to be off quite often. What can I do to fix this, at least to the point where gparted and friends will look at it? I want to keep the contents of my current partitions (other than sda3). Can I somehow get the rather arbitrary geometry of the disk changed so that the partitions don't look screwy? BTW, I would guess that this partitioning was created by Ubuntu something-or-other. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 15:04:51 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 11:04:51 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 12.04 won't install due to odd partitioning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120516150451.GC9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 01:18:59AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I have a notebook on which I previously installed Ubuntu 8.04 and > 10.04 and I want to install 12.04 (over 8.04). See a pattern? I want > the latest LTS and the one before. > > When I try to install 12.04, and ask to configure the partitions, the > installer sees none. And gives no explanation! > > I exited the installer (this is a live DVD of Ubuntu 12.04 for AMD64) > and run parted from the console, it prints a terse message to stderr: > ====================== > libparted : 2.3 > ====================== > Can't have a partition outside the disk! > > A hint. But not too explicit: it doesn't say what partition. > > Here what fdisk says (decorated with labels from the partitions): > > Disk /dev/sda: 120.0 GB, 120034123776 bytes > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 14593 cylinders > Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes > Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > Disk identifier: 0x17a417a4 > Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System > /dev/sda1 1 1020 8193116 27 Unknown > Partition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary. > /dev/sda2 * 1021 6368 42957804+ 7 HPFS/NTFS > /dev/sda3 6369 7388 8193148 83 Linux: Ubuntu8.04 > /dev/sda4 7389 14594 57882195 f W95 Ext'd (LBA) > /dev/sda5 7389 8153 6144820 82 Linux swap / Solaris > /dev/sda6 8154 13573 43536116 83 Linux: /home > /dev/sda7 13574 14594 8195072 83 Linux: Ubuntu10.04 > > It all looks good: all the cylinder numbers make sense. You think ending on 14594 makes sense when you have 14593 cylinders total? Your sda4 and hence sda7 are invalid. Any attempt to write to the last few mebabytes of sda7 would have failed. You probably just never did. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 18:21:28 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 14:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu 12.04 won't install due to odd partitioning In-Reply-To: <20120516150451.GC9110-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120516150451.GC9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 01:18:59AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Disk /dev/sda: 120.0 GB, 120034123776 bytes | > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 14593 cylinders | > Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes | > Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes | > I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes | > Disk identifier: 0x17a417a4 | > Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System | > /dev/sda1 1 1020 8193116 27 Unknown | > Partition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary. | > /dev/sda2 * 1021 6368 42957804+ 7 HPFS/NTFS | > /dev/sda3 6369 7388 8193148 83 Linux: Ubuntu8.04 | > /dev/sda4 7389 14594 57882195 f W95 Ext'd (LBA) | > /dev/sda5 7389 8153 6144820 82 Linux swap / Solaris | > /dev/sda6 8154 13573 43536116 83 Linux: /home | > /dev/sda7 13574 14594 8195072 83 Linux: Ubuntu10.04 | > | > It all looks good: all the cylinder numbers make sense. | | You think ending on 14594 makes sense when you have 14593 cylinders total? True. | Your sda4 and hence sda7 are invalid. Any attempt to write to the last | few mebabytes of sda7 would have failed. You probably just never did. I don't think so. The last (1024-byte) block in sda7 is 8195072: root at redact:~# dd if=/dev/sda7 skip=8195071 of=/dev/null bs=1024 1+0 records in 1+0 records out 1024 bytes (1.0 kB) copied, 9.192e-05 s, 11.1 MB/s root at redact:~# dumpe2fs says that there are 2048768 blocks in the filesystem. I presume that those are 4k blocks so that is the same as 8195072 1k blocks. Thus (not surprisingly) the filesystem is occupying the whole partition. This fantasy of cylinders is past being funny. For example, using 255*63 guarantees that the second partition will not be aligned on a 1024-byte boundary. Very inconvenient for new disk drives that only fake having 512-byte sectors. The GCD of the last two partitions' sector counts 4 so they don't seem to have been allocated on the basis of some identical notional cylinder size. But I don't know if that is meaningful -- perhaps some overhead sectors are not counted. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 18:48:12 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 14:48:12 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 12.04 won't install due to odd partitioning In-Reply-To: References: <20120516150451.GC9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120516184812.GD9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 02:21:28PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I don't think so. The last (1024-byte) block in sda7 is 8195072: > > root at redact:~# dd if=/dev/sda7 skip=8195071 of=/dev/null bs=1024 > 1+0 records in > 1+0 records out > 1024 bytes (1.0 kB) copied, 9.192e-05 s, 11.1 MB/s > root at redact:~# > > dumpe2fs says that there are 2048768 blocks in the filesystem. I > presume that those are 4k blocks so that is the same as 8195072 1k > blocks. Thus (not surprisingly) the filesystem is occupying the whole > partition. > > This fantasy of cylinders is past being funny. For example, using > 255*63 guarantees that the second partition will not be aligned on a > 1024-byte boundary. Very inconvenient for new disk drives that only > fake having 512-byte sectors. > > The GCD of the last two partitions' sector counts 4 so they don't seem > to have been allocated on the basis of some identical notional > cylinder size. But I don't know if that is meaningful -- perhaps some > overhead sectors are not counted. No modern OS uses cylinder allignment. Every OS these days uses 1MB allignment, cylinders be damned. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 22:09:49 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 15:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Anything other than "mc"? Message-ID: <1337206189.99811.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi, Do you know any console program that has drop-down menu or subwindow menu.? I know about "mc" (Midnight Commander). Anything else? Most terminal programs that I use will replace entire screen with help infos or menu choices.? I guess they call this "modal".? Personally, I sort of prefer this.? But... -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 22:31:24 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 15:31:24 -0700 Subject: Anything other than "mc"? In-Reply-To: <1337206189.99811.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3P6X00i2u5GFvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1337206189.99811.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: links? On May 16, 2012 3:10 PM, "William Park" wrote: > Hi, > Do you know any console program that has drop-down menu > > or subwindow menu. I know about "mc" (Midnight Commander). > Anything else? > Most terminal programs that I use will replace entire screen > with help infos or menu choices. I guess they call this > "modal". Personally, I sort of prefer this. But... > > -- > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 16 23:09:25 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 19:09:25 -0400 Subject: Anything other than "mc"? In-Reply-To: <1337206189.99811.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3P6X00i2u5GFvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1337206189.99811.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120516230925.GE9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 03:09:49PM -0700, William Park wrote: > Do you know any console program that has drop-down menu > > or subwindow menu.? I know about "mc" (Midnight Commander). > Anything else? > Most terminal programs that I use will replace entire screen > with help infos or menu choices.? I guess they call this > "modal".? Personally, I sort of prefer this.? But... links, elinks, links2, aptitude, etc Pretty common in ncurses applications. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 08:03:26 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 04:03:26 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? Message-ID: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> I've managed to get automount under mdev sort of working, but it's not quite ready for primetime yet. E.g. when I insert a USB stick, a hotplug event triggers a script, which creates a new device (/dev/sdb1, etc). I've modified the script to also mount the new device when it's created. So far so good. Unfortunately, since it's mounted by root, my regular user account can't write to it... oops. I also need to unmount it as aregular user, before yanking it out. An idea might be a script with sudoers access that lets me unmount anything on the /media directory. Manual mounting/unmounting on fstab-listed devices works as per normal, but some people prefer automounting. Any ideas on mounting? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 11:01:43 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 07:01:43 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <20120517080326.GA5426-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: auto mounting woks best. Manual mouting has caused boot failure. On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 4:03 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > I've managed to get automount under mdev sort of working, but it's not > quite ready for primetime yet. E.g. when I insert a USB stick, a > hotplug event triggers a script, which creates a new device (/dev/sdb1, > etc). I've modified the script to also mount the new device when it's > created. So far so good. Unfortunately, since it's mounted by root, my > regular user account can't write to it... oops. > > I also need to unmount it as aregular user, before yanking it out. An > idea might be a script with sudoers access that lets me unmount anything > on the /media directory. Manual mounting/unmounting on fstab-listed > devices works as per normal, but some people prefer automounting. Any > ideas on mounting? > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 11:06:41 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 07:06:41 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 12.04 won't install due to odd partitioning In-Reply-To: <20120516184812.GD9110-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120516150451.GC9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120516184812.GD9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I believe in KISS What you are doing is the complete opposite to this philosophy. Personally, I deploy images onto free space. On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 02:21:28PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > I don't think so. The last (1024-byte) block in sda7 is 8195072: > > > > root at redact:~# dd if=/dev/sda7 skip=8195071 of=/dev/null bs=1024 > > 1+0 records in > > 1+0 records out > > 1024 bytes (1.0 kB) copied, 9.192e-05 s, 11.1 MB/s > > root at redact:~# > > > > dumpe2fs says that there are 2048768 blocks in the filesystem. I > > presume that those are 4k blocks so that is the same as 8195072 1k > > blocks. Thus (not surprisingly) the filesystem is occupying the whole > > partition. > > > > This fantasy of cylinders is past being funny. For example, using > > 255*63 guarantees that the second partition will not be aligned on a > > 1024-byte boundary. Very inconvenient for new disk drives that only > > fake having 512-byte sectors. > > > > The GCD of the last two partitions' sector counts 4 so they don't seem > > to have been allocated on the basis of some identical notional > > cylinder size. But I don't know if that is meaningful -- perhaps some > > overhead sectors are not counted. > > No modern OS uses cylinder allignment. Every OS these days uses 1MB > allignment, cylinders be damned. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 11:48:36 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 07:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu 12.04 won't install due to odd partitioning In-Reply-To: References: <20120516150451.GC9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120516184812.GD9110@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: charles chris Please don't top-post. And trim what you quote to what you refer to. That takes more work for the poster but it makes the posting clearer and you are writing for a number of people so making it easier for the reader is a politeness. | I believe in KISS | What you are doing is the complete opposite to this philosophy. How does that relate to the posting you quote? | Personally, I deploy images onto free space. Sure, but in my case (1) there is no free space (2) the installer recognize no existing partitions so I could not make freespace without wiping everything that was already there So I don't see how it applies. | On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Lennart Sorensen < | lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: | | > On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 02:21:28PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > > I don't think so. The last (1024-byte) block in sda7 is 8195072: | > > | > > root at redact:~# dd if=/dev/sda7 skip=8195071 of=/dev/null bs=1024 | > > 1+0 records in | > > 1+0 records out | > > 1024 bytes (1.0 kB) copied, 9.192e-05 s, 11.1 MB/s | > > root at redact:~# | > > | > > dumpe2fs says that there are 2048768 blocks in the filesystem. I | > > presume that those are 4k blocks so that is the same as 8195072 1k | > > blocks. Thus (not surprisingly) the filesystem is occupying the whole | > > partition. | > > | > > This fantasy of cylinders is past being funny. For example, using | > > 255*63 guarantees that the second partition will not be aligned on a | > > 1024-byte boundary. Very inconvenient for new disk drives that only | > > fake having 512-byte sectors. | > > | > > The GCD of the last two partitions' sector counts 4 so they don't seem | > > to have been allocated on the basis of some identical notional | > > cylinder size. But I don't know if that is meaningful -- perhaps some | > > overhead sectors are not counted. | > | > No modern OS uses cylinder allignment. Every OS these days uses 1MB | > allignment, cylinders be damned. | > | > -- | > Len Sorensen | > -- | > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ | > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns | > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists | > | | | | -- | http://drpcdr.ca | http://jobcircle.ca | 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 11:49:57 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 07:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: charles chris | auto mounting woks best. Manual mouting has caused boot failure. How does manual mounting cause boot failures? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 11:53:59 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 07:53:59 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <20120517080326.GA5426-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4FB4E6D7.8020906@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > Unfortunately, since it's mounted by root, my > regular user account can't write to it... oops. What I do is create a directory on the device that users can write to. You can do that for a group or all. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 14:16:26 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 07:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <20120517080326.GA5426-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1337264186.23259.YahooMailNeo@web113417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> man mount Look up "user" "users" "owner" option.? Though, that says who can mount and umount.? Not sure, what happens after mount. -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: Walter Dnes > To: Toronto Linux Users Group > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 4:03:26 AM > Subject: [TLUG]: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? > > ? I've managed to get automount under mdev sort of working, but it's not > quite ready for primetime yet.? E.g. when I insert a USB stick, a > hotplug event triggers a script, which creates a new device (/dev/sdb1, > etc). I've modified the script to also mount the new device when it's > created.? So far so good.? Unfortunately, since it's mounted by root, my > regular user account can't write to it... oops. > > ? I also need to unmount it as aregular user, before yanking it out.? An > idea might be a script with sudoers access that lets me unmount anything > on the /media directory.? Manual mounting/unmounting on fstab-listed > devices works as per normal, but some people prefer automounting.? Any > ideas on mounting? > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 17:20:10 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:20:10 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <20120517080326.GA5426-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> On 12-05-17 04:03 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > I've managed to get automount under mdev sort of working What distro are you using that required you to fiddle with things to make automount work? Are you using an embedded system board? > Unfortunately, since it's mounted by root, my regular user account can't > write to it... oops. Look at the uid, gid, and umask options of the mount command. In my case I have those set in /etc/fstab so the msdos partition is automatically mounted at boot as owned by root but can be written to by users in a group specific group. > I also need to unmount it as aregular user, before yanking it out. If you had to fiddle things to make automount work you will probably have to write a script to handle unmounting. In Ubuntu 11.04 I can plug a memory stick in to the system and have write perms to it automatically as a regular user. When I'm done with it I can right click the drive icon and tell the system to safely remove the device. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 18:01:42 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 14:01:42 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <4FB5334A.7000005-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> On 05/17/2012 01:20 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > If you had to fiddle things to make automount work you will probably > have to write a script to handle unmounting. In Ubuntu 11.04 I can plug > a memory stick in to the system and have write perms to it automatically > as a regular user. When I'm done with it I can right click the drive > icon and tell the system to safely remove the device. In this case we need more information from Walter as to what his environment and requirements are. An important note here is the most auto-mount functionality/policy is actually implemented in/at the Desktop Environment level. There is currently no core agreed upon infrastructure to handle this. GNOME just mounts anything when it's inserted, KDE 4 doesn't auto-mount a partition until you try to navigate to it via File Browser. Try logging out of your X environment and switching to the console, you'll quickly find that nothing gets auto-mounted. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 20:43:04 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 16:43:04 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <4FB53D06.9040409-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> Message-ID: <4FB562D8.60501@ve3syb.ca> On 12-05-17 02:01 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > In this case we need more information from Walter as to what his environment > and requirements are. [snip] > Try logging out of your X environment and switching to the console, you'll > quickly find that nothing gets auto-mounted. Yes to both points. I have noticed that a memory stick won't automount when I'm at the console. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu May 17 22:56:42 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 18:56:42 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <4FB53D06.9040409-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> Message-ID: <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 02:01:42PM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote > In this case we need more information from Walter as to what his > environment and requirements are. > > An important note here is the most auto-mount functionality/policy is > actually implemented in/at the Desktop Environment level. There is > currently no core agreed upon infrastructure to handle this. GNOME just > mounts anything when it's inserted, KDE 4 doesn't auto-mount a partition > until you try to navigate to it via File Browser. > > Try logging out of your X environment and switching to the console, > you'll quickly find that nothing gets auto-mounted. This is totally different from what most of you have worked with, unless you do embedded stuff using busybox. Here's the background... * I'm sure most of you have heard of how udev is now broken under a separate /usr without initramfs, requiring many people to either implement initramfs or reshuffle their partitions to make udev work. * How many are aware that udev source code has been rolled into the systemd tarball? See posting at http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.hotplug.devel/17392 Note that the date is April 3rd, not April 1st. * Yes, the posting claims that they will support non-systemd systems, and that "For us, compatibility is key". Then again, they weren't very concerned about users with a separate /usr partition. Whining about "Poettering-ware" doesn't accomplish anything. I'm not a programmer, so I can't fork udev. However there is already a lightweight version, called "mdev," built into busybox. I'm fortunate to be using Gentoo, which allows fine-grained customization, including the ability to replace udev with mdev. I'm the rabble-rouser who started what became https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev Most of what's there now is other people's contributions. I'm perfectly OK with manually mounting stuff, but some people really like automount. I'm trying to figure out how to do that, to make the mdev option more popular. Google turns up plenty of examples on the web of instructions on how to implement automount under busybox/mdev. But they're all for embedded single user systems, where the single user is root. mdev acts as the device manager and hotplug handler on my home computers. Hotplug events are directed to a script as specified in /etc/mdev.conf, and the device nodes (e.g. /dev/sdb, /dev/sdb1, etc) are created. It's trivial to add a couple of lines to the script like... mkdir -p /media/$MDEV mount -t auto blah blah blah /media/$MDEV ...where MDEV is an environmental variable, with the device name, passed to the script by the hotplug handler. My question is what exactly do I have to do to make the mount writeable and unmountable by ordinary users, even though the mount was created by root? If you're going to be writing to a USB key, you want to unmount gracefully before yanking it out. A sync might be sufficient, but I'd prefer something that handles it gracefully. Yes, I know I'm re-inventing the wheel. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 19 16:45:38 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 12:45:38 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <20120517225642.GA6546-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: *Pentium IIIs are being scrapped for NO GOOD REASON * I am surprised that recyclers of used PCs are selling Pentium IIIs for scrap metal. Pentium IIIs are being scrapped for NO GOOD REASON Those Pentium IIIs can run special releases of Linux operating systems designed to perform well on slow processors with low amounts of RAM (256 MB). However, 512 is the more practical minimum amount of installed system memory! Surely a Pentium III with a modern supported fast and responsive Operating System has greater value than what is paid for scrap metal! I wish I could receive Pentium III computers for the same price a scrap dealer pays for them (under $5.00 per unit). I am especially interested in receiving old laptops! A Pentium III PC runs from about 500 MHz to 1.3 GHz. Most likely the small HD will be replaced with a min of 20 GB HD and the RAM increased to 512 MB. I have created an image for Linux Mint 9 LXDE designed to run on low spec computers like Pentium IIIs, max 512 RAM. The details of my experimentation are here: http://drpcdr.ca/LMLXDE.pdf Someone is seeding the image here: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7220650/LM9LXDE_16F I am sharing the files via Drop box here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/75743475/LM9LXDE_16F.tbi http://dl.dropbox.com/u/75743475/iflnet.iso http://dl.dropbox.com/u/75743475/Read_Me.txt http://dl.dropbox.com/u/75743475/BOOTITNG.ISO I took some pics: http://www.drpcdr.ca/pics/HP_Omnibook_6000.jpg http://www.drpcdr.ca/pics/IBM_Thinkpad_600X.jpg http://www.drpcdr.ca/pics/2006_Macbook.jpg Please support me by signing up for a free or paid Drop box account via this link: http://db.tt/URHcmO27 -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 19 16:53:47 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 12:53:47 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 12:45 PM, charles chris wrote: > Pentium IIIs are being scrapped for NO GOOD REASON There's a plenty good reason: in these Modern Days, we're concerned about getting value out of our power consumption. It's likely that those Pentium III systems chew many times more power than (say) an Atom-based system that sells for not terribly much money, new. If you're going to be spending $20/month powering a Pentium III, then you have to count that as part of the cost of owning it, and it's easily worthwhile to invest $400 on a new system that only costs $5/month for power. That pays off as cheaper in just 26 months, and if the $400 machine is a lot more powerful, the extra utility makes it quite clear that, contrary to "NO GOOD REASON," there is *excellent* reason for such a choice. You want to save on power consumption, don't you? -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 19 18:26:34 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 14:26:34 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120519182634.GA5239@node1.opengeometry.net> Power consumption is the main point here. Second point is memory. Newer memory is faster, cheaper, and bigger. Third point is SATA. Most harddisks nowdays are SATA 3/6Gbps. -- William On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 12:53:47PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 12:45 PM, charles chris wrote: > > Pentium IIIs are being scrapped for NO GOOD REASON > > There's a plenty good reason: in these Modern Days, we're concerned > about getting value out of our power consumption. > > It's likely that those Pentium III systems chew many times more power > than (say) an Atom-based system that sells for not terribly much > money, new. > > If you're going to be spending $20/month powering a Pentium III, then > you have to count that as part of the cost of owning it, and it's > easily worthwhile to invest $400 on a new system that only costs > $5/month for power. > > That pays off as cheaper in just 26 months, and if the $400 machine is > a lot more powerful, the extra utility makes it quite clear that, > contrary to "NO GOOD REASON," there is *excellent* reason for such a > choice. > > You want to save on power consumption, don't you? > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 19 19:58:24 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 15:58:24 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4FB7FB60.8080605@rogers.com> charles chris wrote: > I am surprised that recyclers of used PCs are selling Pentium IIIs for > scrap metal. > > Pentium IIIs are being scrapped for NO GOOD REASON My firewall is built on an old P3 Compaq. However, these days, they're a bit sluggish for desktop use, though they might have some life as a low performance server. You could have a decent file & print or mail server on one of those. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat May 19 22:26:01 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 18:26:01 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4FB81DF9.1050707@ve3syb.ca> On 12-05-19 12:53 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > You want to save on power consumption, don't you? Are you really saving on power consumption? Consider that power supplies are more efficient than a lot of the ones used in older PC's but remember that the video cards in current day machines tend to require a lot more power than older video cards. An older computer might have a 200W to 300W power supply. The video cards in some (a lot?) of the machines today need power supplies with wattages of 450W or more. The power supply of an older machine could be replaced for a more efficient one to reduce its power consumption slightly. Without measuring the current draw of machine A vs. machine B you can't be certain that machine B (if it is newer than A) uses less power. Just some additional food for thought. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 20 03:27:01 2012 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 23:27:01 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <4FB81DF9.1050707-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> <4FB81DF9.1050707@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4FB86485.5020501@gmail.com> Modern day Video cards, throttle back power when not chugging, I have one of those Nvidia, with the app that shows power use of card (or thermo), it hardly does anything heat/power wise when you are not having it render 3d, or chugging frames of video. For all I know it may use less when it's idle-ish state then a typical AGP, or old PCI vintage card. But as you put it to task, then yes, some of those beefy GPU want you to have a min. 800watt PS even. -tl On 05/19/2012 06:26 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 12-05-19 12:53 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> You want to save on power consumption, don't you? > > Are you really saving on power consumption? Consider that power > supplies are more efficient than a lot of the ones used in older PC's > but remember that the video cards in current day machines tend to > require a lot more power than older video cards. > > An older computer might have a 200W to 300W power supply. The video > cards in some (a lot?) of the machines today need power supplies with > wattages of 450W or more. The power supply of an older machine could > be replaced for a more efficient one to reduce its power consumption > slightly. > > Without measuring the current draw of machine A vs. machine B you > can't be certain that machine B (if it is newer than A) uses less power. > > Just some additional food for thought. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun May 20 05:42:57 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 01:42:57 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <4FB86485.5020501-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> <4FB81DF9.1050707@ve3syb.ca> <4FB86485.5020501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4FB88461.9000006@ve3syb.ca> On 12-05-19 11:27 PM, Ted wrote: > But as you put it to task, then yes, some of those beefy GPU want you to > have a min. 800watt PS even. 800W min requirement just for the video card? Holy cow! I haven't seen one that needs that much yet. When you get to something like that you find that the video card can be more than half the overall cost for the rest of the parts of the computer. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 20 05:55:22 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 01:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | It's likely that those Pentium III systems chew many times more power | than (say) an Atom-based system that sells for not terribly much | money, new. True. On the other hand, many machines are only powered on for a small percentage of the time. Another problem is it takes a significant amount of time from a skilled person to redeploy a machine. Remember, each machine redeployed is likely different and require slightly different tricks. That being said, I do prefer P3 systems to P4 systems. But "Core Duo" systems have been around for about six years. I think that it's only worth redeploying post-P4 systems. AMD machines are a little different: there are no bad AMD chip runs like the P4. Even though there is no hard cut-off for AMD-based systems, I doubt it is worth redeploying any machine older than about six years. I still use an Athlon XP but would probably not redeploy one. I do use the 5 PCI slots -- not a common feature on recent machines. I still use a couple of P2's, but would not redeploy one. In fact, I'm working to replace them with a much superior C2D system that only cost $100 used. So clearly I'm not against old junk. The only barrier: the considerable time it will take me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 20 14:26:13 2012 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 11:26:13 -0300 Subject: [TLUG] OT: QUestionnaire for Developers - Development Platforms (Cloud Computing) Message-ID: Hello guys, I am doing an academic research focused on software development using cloud computing platforms. Despite not having a direct link to Free Software, I think it is an interesting research because I know that several projects, some of which I also participate, make use of cloud platforms for development. I would like to share with you a basic form that I designed to compare the use of 3 of the main platforms. It is a simple questionnaire, with only multiple choice questions, which takes no more than 5 minutes to respond. Feel invited to respond: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFh4N1B5dTBNS2hVZlZQUVowcGVtQVE6MQ Grateful in advance for help. best regards, =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es:?ITIL V3?|?CSM |?LPI-C1 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa:?Blog Projetos:?Tux-CE?|?Archlinux-br?|?Chakra?|?KDE Brasil?|?TLUG?|?PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sun May 20 16:32:41 2012 From: iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Isaac Connor) Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 12:32:41 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4FB91CA9.4030000@connortechnology.com> What does this have to do with the topic? What are you doing with these computers anyways? I donate a lot of machine to a couple of organizations in Toronto that put together machines and sell them cheaply for disadvantaged families and community organizations. If you were doing something good with them, I could give you about 10 P4/Athlon class machines. I personally still sometimes use a PIII laptop, running the latest xubuntu. It works just fine although it is a bit slow. My baby also uses it for watching youtube videos. The video is choppy but she doesn't know any better. Still, I don't think that it is really worth the effort to keep PIII's in circulation. I don't even think it is worth it for P4's/Athlons. Newer stuff is just too cheap and energy efficient. Isaac On 12-05-19 12:45 PM, charles chris wrote: > > *Pentium IIIs are being scrapped for NO GOOD REASON * > > I am surprised that recyclers of used PCs are selling Pentium IIIs for > scrap metal. > > Pentium IIIs are being scrapped for NO GOOD REASON > > Those Pentium IIIs can run special releases of Linux operating systems > designed to perform well on slow processors with low amounts of RAM > (256 MB). However, 512 is the more practical minimum amount of > installed system memory! > > Surely a Pentium III with a modern supported fast and responsive > Operating System has greater value than what is paid for scrap metal! > > I wish I could receive Pentium III computers for the same price a > scrap dealer pays for them (under $5.00 per unit). > I am especially interested in receiving old laptops! > > A Pentium III PC runs from about 500 MHz to 1.3 GHz. > Most likely the small HD will be replaced with a min of 20 GB HD and > the RAM increased to 512 MB. > > I have created an image for Linux Mint 9 LXDE designed to run on low > spec computers like Pentium IIIs, max 512 RAM. > > The details of my experimentation are here: > > http://drpcdr.ca/LMLXDE.pdf > > Someone is seeding the image here: > > http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7220650/LM9LXDE_16F > > I am sharing the files via Drop box here: > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/75743475/LM9LXDE_16F.tbi > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/75743475/iflnet.iso > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/75743475/Read_Me.txt > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/75743475/BOOTITNG.ISO > > I took some pics: > > http://www.drpcdr.ca/pics/HP_Omnibook_6000.jpg > > http://www.drpcdr.ca/pics/IBM_Thinkpad_600X.jpg > > > http://www.drpcdr.ca/pics/2006_Macbook.jpg > > > Please support me by signing up for a free or paid Drop box account > via this link: > > > http://db.tt/URHcmO27 > > > > > -- > http://drpcdr.ca > http://jobcircle.ca > 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon May 21 07:06:05 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 03:06:05 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <20120517225642.GA6546-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120521070605.GB14145@waltdnes.org> After a lot of Googling, I stumbled over pmount/pumount. See http://man.cx/pmount%281%29 and http://man.cx/pumount%281%29 This looks like it'll allow a regular use to unmount stuff not in /fstab. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 21 07:10:15 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 03:10:15 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <4FB91CA9.4030000-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> <4FB91CA9.4030000@connortechnology.com> Message-ID: Isaac wrote: Still, I don't think that it is really worth the effort to keep PIII's in circulation. I don't even think it is worth it for P4's/Athlons. Newer stuff is just too cheap and energy efficient. Remember a Pentium III laptop around 2000/2001 cost $2,0000+ Scrapping expensive Pentium III equipment is like throwing away thousands of dollars! Even some early Pentium IVs are NOT much faster. Some even use the same PC133 RAM and run at 1.6 GHz compared to a high end Pentium III running at 1.3+ GHz. Christopher Browne wrote: There's a plenty good reason: in these Modern Days, we're concerned about getting value out of our power consumption. It's likely that those Pentium III systems chew many times more power than (say) an Atom-based system that sells for not terribly much money, new. I once placed a 350 Watt power supply in a PC which the customer uses for video editing. He complained that the power supply was inadequate and returned it. He purchased a power supply with a much higher wattage. Obviously, a Pentium III will NOT be used for video editing and therefore will NOT consume more power than modern PCs. Kevin is correct! Hugh wrote: Another problem is it takes a significant amount of time from a skilled person to redeploy a machine. Remember, each machine redeployed is likely different and require slightly different tricks. Has anyone deployed the Linux Mint 9 LXDE image onto a HD? Try it! It deploys in just 2 minutes! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 21 13:40:31 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 09:40:31 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> <4FB91CA9.4030000@connortechnology.com> Message-ID: <4FBA45CF.5050605@gmail.com> On 12-05-21 03:10 , charles chris wrote: > > Remember a Pentium III laptop around 2000/2001 cost $2,0000+ Scrapping > expensive Pentium III equipment is like throwing away thousands of dollars! A 32kB Apple ][ system cost $2000+ in 1977, but has so little utility today that all that's left is curiosity value. Components will be failing at that age, so unless you value the user's time at zero, it won't be worth keeping them going. I have a maxed-out Thinkpad R51 from 2004 with a new hard drive. It's just at the edge of usability with modern browsers and applications. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 21 14:02:36 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 10:02:36 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <4FBA45CF.5050605-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> <4FB91CA9.4030000@connortechnology.com> <4FBA45CF.5050605@gmail.com> Message-ID: Stewart wrote: A 32kB Apple ][ system cost $2000+ in 1977, but has so little utility today that all that's left is curiosity value. Components will be failing at that age, so unless you value the user's time at zero, it won't be worth keeping them going. ________________ You cannot put old world Apple computers in the same category as usable Pentium III PCs. Loaded with Linux MInt 9 LXDE, a Pentium III 800 MHz can play YouTube videos properly. Futhermore, Linux Mint 9 LXDE is blazing fast! In fact I deployed my Linux image on a 2001 HP laptop and the customer is extremely happy with my work! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Mon May 21 14:04:20 2012 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 10:04:20 -0400 Subject: Redeployments (was Re: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it?) In-Reply-To: References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120521140419.GL9073@adb.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > That being said, I do prefer P3 systems to P4 systems. But "Core Duo" > systems have been around for about six years. I think that it's only > worth redeploying post-P4 systems. > > AMD machines are a little different: there are no bad AMD chip runs > like the P4. Even though there is no hard cut-off for AMD-based > systems, I doubt it is worth redeploying any machine older than about > six years. I've been a packrat in the past, and ended up taking vanloads of gear to e-waste recycling once I was *sure* it was past its usable date. At this point, 64-bit boxes are Interesting as desktops or servers, while late 32-bit era could still be usable if it's a nice box in a useful niche. But a lot of those niches can be filled by any of the low-power offerings (WRT54GL, CuBox, Raspberry when they materialize out of the vapor, anything ARM basically) for a lot less power if you pay your own electric bill. A Linux wireless router *with* a USB port could be an interesting peripheral that doesn't need to actually route packets, and could use an Arduino to do physical I/O. > I still use an Athlon XP but would probably not redeploy one. I do > use the 5 PCI slots -- not a common feature on recent machines. It can be an idea to keep a few functional older boxes: something that does traditional SCSI, something with an ISA slot, floppy drive, wide floppy drive, libc5 install, etc, basically so you have the right tool if you need it for some retrocomputing rescue mission. > I still use a couple of P2's, but would not redeploy one. The rules of the game as I understand them is that it's not supposed to be by my own doing when the presently-1380-day uptime run finally ends. But I anticipate my relationship with the P2 architecture doesn't need to continue past that. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 21 16:29:11 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 12:29:11 -0400 Subject: Redeployments (was Re: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it?) In-Reply-To: <20120521140419.GL9073-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> <20120521140419.GL9073@adb.ca> Message-ID: If you have any unwanted working Pentium III PCs, please send them to me. 647 453 3327 Thanks in advance On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Anthony de Boer wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > That being said, I do prefer P3 systems to P4 systems. But "Core Duo" > > systems have been around for about six years. I think that it's only > > worth redeploying post-P4 systems. > > > > AMD machines are a little different: there are no bad AMD chip runs > > like the P4. Even though there is no hard cut-off for AMD-based > > systems, I doubt it is worth redeploying any machine older than about > > six years. > > I've been a packrat in the past, and ended up taking vanloads of gear > to e-waste recycling once I was *sure* it was past its usable date. > > At this point, 64-bit boxes are Interesting as desktops or servers, while > late 32-bit era could still be usable if it's a nice box in a useful > niche. But a lot of those niches can be filled by any of the low-power > offerings (WRT54GL, CuBox, Raspberry when they materialize out of the > vapor, anything ARM basically) for a lot less power if you pay your own > electric bill. A Linux wireless router *with* a USB port could be an > interesting peripheral that doesn't need to actually route packets, and > could use an Arduino to do physical I/O. > > > I still use an Athlon XP but would probably not redeploy one. I do > > use the 5 PCI slots -- not a common feature on recent machines. > > It can be an idea to keep a few functional older boxes: something that > does traditional SCSI, something with an ISA slot, floppy drive, wide > floppy drive, libc5 install, etc, basically so you have the right tool > if you need it for some retrocomputing rescue mission. > > > I still use a couple of P2's, but would not redeploy one. > > The rules of the game as I understand them is that it's not supposed to > be by my own doing when the presently-1380-day uptime run finally ends. > But I anticipate my relationship with the P2 architecture doesn't need > to continue past that. > > -- > Anthony de Boer > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 21 22:41:50 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 18:41:50 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <4FBA45CF.5050605-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> <4FB91CA9.4030000@connortechnology.com> <4FBA45CF.5050605@gmail.com> Message-ID: Indeed. I have a Digital Multia, once worth thousands, only kept as its case engineering is so pretty. Were I to get an SGI Indy, I rather think the best use would be as a case for an espresso machine. DND: MARLANT went to heroic lengths, but were forced, in the end, to shut down the last MULTICS system in 2000. I expect that the disk drives had been out of production for twenty or so years. This was pretty big trouble, as there isn't yet a MULTICS emulator, so software running on it had to get rewritten. (Sources now available... Anyone got a PL/1 compiler? http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/source/Multics_Internet_Server/Multics_sources.html) Heroics were fairly worthwhile, as these were multi-million dollar computers. (Albeit likely with less CPU power and storage than is found on the average smartphone these days. Original specs for GE-645s involved approximately 1 MIPS, 256K words (36 bit words), 200MB disk spindles, so your cell phone is massively more capacious.) Most pointedly, it isn't much worthwhile to put heroic efforts into preservation of computer hardware that was cheaply built and that is wildly inferior, under a multiplicity of metrics, to newer stuff. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 12:39:50 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 08:39:50 -0400 Subject: Connecting to memory card in printer Message-ID: <4FBB8916.5010600@rogers.com> Using Ubuntu 12.04, Gnome GUI and Nautilus, I can browse the network and see the memory card that is in my network printer. I click on the icon and I am prompted for a password. When I do the same from my Windows 7 box, there is no prompt for a password and I can access the files. How do I get rid of the password prompt? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 14:39:24 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 10:39:24 -0400 Subject: Connecting to memory card in printer In-Reply-To: <4FBB8916.5010600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBB8916.5010600@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Stephen wrote: > > How do I get rid of the password prompt? It's probably assuming the Guest user. The number of devices you can get into with user: guest and no password is astonishing. cheers, Stewart -- http://scruss.com/blog/ - 73 de VA3PID -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 14:50:55 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 10:50:55 -0400 Subject: Connecting to memory card in printer In-Reply-To: References: <4FBB8916.5010600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FBBA7CF.3020806@rogers.com> On 12-05-22 10:39 AM, Stewart Russell wrote: > >> How do I get rid of the password prompt? > It's probably assuming the Guest user. The number of devices you can > get into with user: guest and no password is astonishing. This did not work. :( It wants a password. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 15:25:14 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 11:25:14 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120522152514.GA32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 12:53:47PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > There's a plenty good reason: in these Modern Days, we're concerned > about getting value out of our power consumption. > > It's likely that those Pentium III systems chew many times more power > than (say) an Atom-based system that sells for not terribly much > money, new. Well pentium III's are not too bad. Pentium 4's on the other hand should be scrapped. > If you're going to be spending $20/month powering a Pentium III, then > you have to count that as part of the cost of owning it, and it's > easily worthwhile to invest $400 on a new system that only costs > $5/month for power. > > That pays off as cheaper in just 26 months, and if the $400 machine is > a lot more powerful, the extra utility makes it quite clear that, > contrary to "NO GOOD REASON," there is *excellent* reason for such a > choice. > > You want to save on power consumption, don't you? If you care about power consumption, go buy a modern ARM system for $150 and use that. Faster than the pentium III and uses a tiny fraction of the power. x86 just isn't suitable for efficient systems. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 15:28:01 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 11:28:01 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <4FB81DF9.1050707-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> <4FB81DF9.1050707@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20120522152801.GB32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 06:26:01PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Are you really saving on power consumption? Consider that power > supplies are more efficient than a lot of the ones used in older > PC's but remember that the video cards in current day machines tend > to require a lot more power than older video cards. > > An older computer might have a 200W to 300W power supply. The video > cards in some (a lot?) of the machines today need power supplies > with wattages of 450W or more. The power supply of an older machine > could be replaced for a more efficient one to reduce its power > consumption slightly. > > Without measuring the current draw of machine A vs. machine B you > can't be certain that machine B (if it is newer than A) uses less > power. > > Just some additional food for thought. If you want a modern high performance gaming machine, then yes. For a normal desktop, onboard graphics should be fine, and uses only a few watts. Personally I intend to order a cubox soon for use as a mythtv frontend. HDMI 1920x1080p video, usb, eSATA, IR receiver, gigabit ethernet, 1GB ram, microSD slot, all in a 2" cube using under 5W with hardware mpeg2 and mpeg4 decoding support. Seems perfect for the job. All for about $150. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 15:31:18 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 11:31:18 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> <4FB91CA9.4030000@connortechnology.com> <4FBA45CF.5050605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120522153118.GC32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 06:41:50PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > Indeed. I have a Digital Multia, once worth thousands, only kept as its > case engineering is so pretty. > > Were I to get an SGI Indy, I rather think the best use would be as a case > for an espresso machine. I like my Indys (yes I have two). :) > DND: MARLANT went to heroic lengths, but were forced, in the end, to shut > down the last MULTICS system in 2000. I expect that the disk drives had > been out of production for twenty or so years. This was pretty big > trouble, as there isn't yet a MULTICS emulator, so software running on it > had to get rewritten. (Sources now available... Anyone got a PL/1 > compiler? > http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/source/Multics_Internet_Server/Multics_sources.html) > > > Heroics were fairly worthwhile, as these were multi-million dollar > computers. (Albeit likely with less CPU power and storage than is found on > the average smartphone these days. Original specs for GE-645s involved > approximately 1 MIPS, 256K words (36 bit words), 200MB disk spindles, so > your cell phone is massively more capacious.) > > Most pointedly, it isn't much worthwhile to put heroic efforts into > preservation of computer hardware that was cheaply built and that is wildly > inferior, under a multiplicity of metrics, to newer stuff. Sounds like fun. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 15:32:51 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 11:32:51 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] OT: QUestionnaire for Developers - Development Platforms (Cloud Computing) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120522153251.GD32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 11:26:13AM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Hello guys, > > I am doing an academic research focused on software development using > cloud computing platforms. > > Despite not having a direct link to Free Software, I think it is an > interesting research because I know that several projects, some of > which I also participate, make use of cloud platforms for development. > > I would like to share with you a basic form that I designed to compare > the use of 3 of the main platforms. > > It is a simple questionnaire, with only multiple choice questions, > which takes no more than 5 minutes to respond. > > Feel invited to respond: > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFh4N1B5dTBNS2hVZlZQUVowcGVtQVE6MQ > > Grateful in advance for help. I guess there is no point looking at it if you haven't worked with cloud computing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 15:46:27 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 11:46:27 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] OT: QUestionnaire for Developers - Development Platforms (Cloud Computing) In-Reply-To: <20120522153251.GD32729-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120522153251.GD32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4FBBB4D3.6060102@ve3syb.ca> On 12-05-22 11:32 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I guess there is no point looking at it if you haven't worked with > cloud computing. Not really. I looked at it to see what questions were asked. Its focus is somewhat narrow. Not only do you need to have worked with cloud computing, you need to have worked with one of only about 4 or 5 specific systems. It doesn't have an "other" answer when asked which cloud system you have used. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 16:13:35 2012 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 12:13:35 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: <20120522153118.GC32729-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> <4FB91CA9.4030000@connortechnology.com> <4FBA45CF.5050605@gmail.com> <20120522153118.GC32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 06:41:50PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >> Were I to get an SGI Indy, I rather think the best use would be as a case >> for an espresso machine. > > I like my Indys (yes I have two). :) It's a beautiful machine (I have only one, my first home computer) but I think Christopher must be thinking of the Indigo or the O2... the Indy is a pizzabox (like my two NeXTstations). Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 16:34:47 2012 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 09:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [TLUG] OT: QUestionnaire for Developers - Development Platforms (Cloud Computing) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1337704487.90499.YahooMailNeo@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello Marcelo, A couple comments that hopefully help improve your form: - I'm not familiar with Azure but EC2 and Google App are apple and oranges. EC2 is?infrastructure?(IaaS) as on demand servers with nothing on them, similar to linode or another cloud-y host provider and Google App Engine is a software platform (PaaS) where to deploy Java, Python or Go apps, I don't even think you can resize CPU/disk size for Google App, that's kind of the point. - Also all the questions are required so very few people (knowledgeable?in all 3 services) will be able to submit the whole thing, I suggest you make them not required or add a "I don't know" option. For powerful hosted free (up to some point) form builder take a look at formstack.com. Cheers, Fernando ? --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marcelo Cavalcante > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 10:26:13 AM > Subject: [TLUG]: [TLUG] OT: QUestionnaire for Developers - Development Platforms (Cloud Computing) > > Hello guys, > > I am doing an academic research focused on software development using > cloud computing platforms. > > Despite not having a direct link to Free Software, I think it is an > interesting research because I know that several projects, some of > which I also participate, make use of cloud platforms for development. > > I would like to share with you a basic form that I designed to compare > the use of? 3 of the main platforms. > > It is a simple questionnaire, with only multiple choice questions, > which takes no more than 5 minutes to respond. > > Feel invited to respond: > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFh4N1B5dTBNS2hVZlZQUVowcGVtQVE6MQ > > Grateful in advance for help. > > best regards, > > =================================================== > > Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib > > Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC > Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 > Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil > Celular: +55 085 87620983 > Certifica??es:?ITIL V3?|?CSM |?LPI-C1 | Novell CLA > Minha Pessoa:?Blog > Projetos:?Tux-CE?|?Archlinux-br?|?Chakra?|?KDE Brasil?|?TLUG?|?PUG-CE > > =================================================== > > > Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. > N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). > Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a > dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 16:35:35 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 12:35:35 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] OT: QUestionnaire for Developers - Development Platforms (Cloud Computing) In-Reply-To: <20120522153251.GD32729-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120522153251.GD32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I guess there is no point looking at it if you haven't worked with > cloud computing. It's futile looking at it if your idea of "cloud computing" spreads any broader than 3 specific brands (Amazon EC2, Google App Engine, MSFT Azure). And it's *nearly* as useless if your exposure doesn't include having experiences worth comparing on at least two of them. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 16:44:43 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 12:44:43 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: References: <20120517080326.GA5426@waltdnes.org> <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> <4FB91CA9.4030000@connortechnology.com> <4FBA45CF.5050605@gmail.com> <20120522153118.GC32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Michael Hill wrote: > On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 06:41:50PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > >>> Were I to get an SGI Indy, I rather think the best use would be as a case >>> for an espresso machine. >> >> I like my Indys (yes I have two). :) > > It's a beautiful machine (I have only one, my first home computer) but > I think Christopher must be thinking of the Indigo or the O2... the > Indy is a pizzabox (like my two NeXTstations). Yep, what I'm thinking of is this: http://reality.sgiweb.org/eile/espressigo/ http://reality.sgiweb.org/eile/espressigo/leaflet.jpg http://reality.sgiweb.org/eile/espressigo/espressigo1.jpg -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 16:52:10 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 12:52:10 -0400 Subject: Can root mount a partition and allow users to write to it? In-Reply-To: References: <4FB5334A.7000005@ve3syb.ca> <4FB53D06.9040409@ss.org> <20120517225642.GA6546@waltdnes.org> <4FB91CA9.4030000@connortechnology.com> <4FBA45CF.5050605@gmail.com> <20120522153118.GC32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120522165210.GE32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 12:13:35PM -0400, Michael Hill wrote: > It's a beautiful machine (I have only one, my first home computer) but > I think Christopher must be thinking of the Indigo or the O2... the > Indy is a pizzabox (like my two NeXTstations). I have a pair of Indigo's too. They are prettier than the Indy. I find it amazing that the Indy was discontinue in 1997, but support from SGI isn't ending until this coming December. I rather doubt anyone is actively still relying on one. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 17:26:20 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 13:26:20 -0400 Subject: ARM PC/HTPCs are getting interesting! (Via's APC (Android PC) announced). Message-ID: <4FBBCC3C.8090102@ss.org> # Via APC Via has just recently announced a Neo-ITX form factor (drops into any miniITX or microATX) Android PC board. It is expected to retail around the $49 price point. http://apc.io/about/ http://www.viagallery.com/Subcategory/apc.aspx While the lack of SATA and/or miniPCIe leaves a something to be desired, I find it interesting to see a major board designer getting into this low cost ARM system market. # Mele A1000/A2000 Personally, I just received last week my Mele A1000. http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mele-1080p-android-2-3-internet-tv-set-top-box-w-wifi-optical-3-x-usb-hdmi-av-lan-sd-119913 It's got a very full feature set at a reasonable price. Allwinner, the makers of the A10 SoC are open-source friendly and have released all the source code. There are now workable Debian and Ubuntu Images for this device. http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/hacking_the_mele_a1000/ The A2000 is the same main=board with a smaller case and no HDD enclosure. The specs for it on Dealextreme are just wrong so I'm not posting the link. # General The OLPC XO proved you really could ride Mores Law in the other direction. Raspberry Pi gave it mass appeal. With the market going the way it is, I'd like to hear from GTALUGers. 1) What they would be doing with these devices? 2) What would you expect in term of support before you try one? 3) What feature set do you think these boards/systems should be targeting? At what price would you pay for that feature set? -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 17:44:28 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 13:44:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ARM PC/HTPCs are getting interesting! (Via's APC (Android PC) announced). In-Reply-To: <4FBBCC3C.8090102-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBBCC3C.8090102@ss.org> Message-ID: | From: Scott Sullivan Thanks for this email. (And thanks, Lennart, for mentioning the Cubox). | With the market going the way it is, I'd like to hear from GTALUGers. | | 1) What they would be doing with these devices? Lots of little things. Perhaps: - file server - internet gateway - myth client Strengths: low power, quiet, small. | 2) What would you expect in term of support before you try one? I want all my friends to have one so that I don't have to figure out the gotchas on my own. That's one reason your message is heartening. It would be nice if the product looked to be part of a continuing series. Eventually, any box will be obsolete. | 3) What feature set do you think these boards/systems should be targeting? At | what price would you pay for that feature set? Features I'd like for at least some applications: - I'd like multiple ethernet interfaces to make router's possible. I've now got a work-around for that. - I'd like gigabit ethernet since that makes a better server - I'd like USB3 so that disk access can be fast. eSATA would be good now but I imagine that USB3 will displace it and is more versatile. - to give the device more flexibility and longevity, I'd like a lot of RAM. These days, in the PC world, 4G is $20 retail -- well worth it. - video is a problem. I want open source drivers. And I want licenses for CODECs. Not sure they mix. Bonuses are nice. The Mele A1000's remote looks like fun. WiFi is sometimes useful. Lots of flash can be useful. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 18:11:57 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 14:11:57 -0400 Subject: ARM PC/HTPCs are getting interesting! (Via's APC (Android PC) announced). In-Reply-To: <4FBBCC3C.8090102-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBBCC3C.8090102@ss.org> Message-ID: <20120522181157.GF32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 01:26:20PM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: > # Via APC > > Via has just recently announced a Neo-ITX form factor (drops into > any miniITX or microATX) Android PC board. It is expected to retail > around the $49 price point. > > http://apc.io/about/ > http://www.viagallery.com/Subcategory/apc.aspx > > While the lack of SATA and/or miniPCIe leaves a something to be > desired, I find it interesting to see a major board designer getting > into this low cost ARM system market. > > # Mele A1000/A2000 > > Personally, I just received last week my Mele A1000. > > http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mele-1080p-android-2-3-internet-tv-set-top-box-w-wifi-optical-3-x-usb-hdmi-av-lan-sd-119913 > > It's got a very full feature set at a reasonable price. Allwinner, > the makers of the A10 SoC are open-source friendly and have released > all the source code. There are now workable Debian and Ubuntu Images > for this device. I _hate_ their model name. When working with ARM Coretex designs, where you have Cortex A8, Cortex A9, do _not_ go making a Cortex A8 design and name it A10. That's just obnoxious. > http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/hacking_the_mele_a1000/ > > The A2000 is the same main=board with a smaller case and no HDD > enclosure. The specs for it on Dealextreme are just wrong so I'm not > posting the link. > > # General > > The OLPC XO proved you really could ride Mores Law in the other > direction. Raspberry Pi gave it mass appeal. > > With the market going the way it is, I'd like to hear from GTALUGers. > > 1) What they would be doing with these devices? > 2) What would you expect in term of support before you try one? > 3) What feature set do you think these boards/systems should be > targeting? At what price would you pay for that feature set? Well personally I have an i.mx53 quick start board, which I got for $100 US (plus $50 for the hdmi interface that I wanted). I also intend to get the cubox to use as a mythtv frontend. The i.mx53 is to play with and help the debian armhf port work. It has 1GB ram and is quite fast, even though it is only a Cortex A8. A Cortex A9 would be quite a bit faster still. I would love to get a hold of an i.mx6 based board, but I don't know of the devel boards are out yet or how much they would be. I think most of the arm boards don't have enough ram. To me, less than 1GB is just a mistake. SATA support is pretty much essential, and I would really like gigabit ethernet, although I suppose 100Mbit could do. Digital video output is also nice, unless it is just a server, in which case serial is fine. Analog VGA is of no interest what so ever for anything. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 18:17:51 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 14:17:51 -0400 Subject: ARM PC/HTPCs are getting interesting! (Via's APC (Android PC) announced). In-Reply-To: References: <4FBBCC3C.8090102@ss.org> Message-ID: <20120522181751.GG32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 01:44:28PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Lots of little things. Perhaps: > > - file server > > - internet gateway Not very many systems with multiple ethernet ports unfortunately. > - myth client I am looking forward to having a silent low power but completely full hd capable frontend. > Strengths: low power, quiet, small. > > | 2) What would you expect in term of support before you try one? > > I want all my friends to have one so that I don't have to figure out > the gotchas on my own. That's one reason your message is heartening. > > It would be nice if the product looked to be part of a continuing > series. Eventually, any box will be obsolete. Potentially a problem, but that is true of all computers. > | 3) What feature set do you think these boards/systems should be targeting? At > | what price would you pay for that feature set? > > Features I'd like for at least some applications: > > - I'd like multiple ethernet interfaces to make router's possible. > I've now got a work-around for that. > > - I'd like gigabit ethernet since that makes a better server > > - I'd like USB3 so that disk access can be fast. eSATA would be good > now but I imagine that USB3 will displace it and is more versatile. I don't think so. SATA is the native interface of the harddisk. I don't think you will ever see a harddisk with native USB3. External enclosures sure. It is much more complex to implement USB handshaking and boot than SATA is. SATA isn't going anywhere. > - to give the device more flexibility and longevity, I'd like a lot of > RAM. These days, in the PC world, 4G is $20 retail -- well worth it. Well ARM being 32bit (still) you are not going to see 4GB+ ram on one. This is changing of course but it will be a few more years. 64bit ARM is coming, as is 32bit ARM with PAE like support for extra ram. > - video is a problem. I want open source drivers. And I want > licenses for CODECs. Not sure they mix. It's a problem yes. At least someone is working on open source drivers for the ARM MALI 200/400 video core. No such luck for the AMD design on my i.mx53. > Bonuses are nice. The Mele A1000's remote looks like fun. WiFi is > sometimes useful. Lots of flash can be useful. microSD takes care of flash letting you pick the size. Being unbrickable is rather nice, which is becoming quite common on arm designs now. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 22 23:19:18 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 19:19:18 -0400 Subject: ARM PC/HTPCs are getting interesting! (Via's APC (Android PC) announced). In-Reply-To: <20120522181751.GG32729-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBBCC3C.8090102@ss.org> <20120522181751.GG32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 01:44:28PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> It would be nice if the product looked to be part of a continuing >> series. ?Eventually, any box will be obsolete. > > Potentially a problem, but that is true of all computers. What is irritating with the typical ARM system vendors is that they seem to set up designs as a one-shot, "that's what it'll always be" thing. In the embedded space, that's certainly a tempting thing to do, as embedded integrators don't want to be changing specs of hardware much, that's mighty painful to do. But it tends to lead to vendors holding to one model for much longer than they ought to, until long after betternewerfaster stuff has overshadowed it. It is encouraging to me that VIA is doing this; they have been in the habit of designing motherboards and chipsets that have fairly frequent refresh cycles for their designs; it seems less likely that they will fall into that trap. >> - I'd like USB3 so that disk access can be fast. ?eSATA would be good >> ? now but I imagine that USB3 will displace it and is more versatile. > > I don't think so. ?SATA is the native interface of the harddisk. ?I don't > think you will ever see a harddisk with native USB3. ?External enclosures > sure. ?It is much more complex to implement USB handshaking and boot > than SATA is. ?SATA isn't going anywhere. Agreed. >> - to give the device more flexibility and longevity, I'd like a lot of >> ? RAM. ?These days, in the PC world, 4G is $20 retail -- well worth it. > > Well ARM being 32bit (still) you are not going to see 4GB+ ram on one. > This is changing of course but it will be a few more years. ?64bit ARM > is coming, as is 32bit ARM with PAE like support for extra ram. A bit sad... At least 2GB is a pretty material amount of memory. Mobile phones commonly don't have that much :-) -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 05:08:57 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 01:08:57 -0400 Subject: ARM PC/HTPCs are getting interesting! (Via's APC (Android PC) announced). In-Reply-To: <4FBBCC3C.8090102-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBBCC3C.8090102@ss.org> Message-ID: <20120523050857.GA19812@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 01:26:20PM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: > With the market going the way it is, I'd like to hear from GTALUGers. > > 1) What they would be doing with these devices? > 2) What would you expect in term of support before you try one? > 3) What feature set do you think these boards/systems should be > targeting? At what price would you pay for that feature set? My needs are disk-bound. My tower, power supply, motherboard, cpu, and ram are just there to serve my harddisks. VIA board is nice, but not very useful without more SATA ports! Since we're developers, size doesn't matter too much. Just take your regular ATX motherboard, put ARM cpu there, put more SATA ports, take out whatever not needed! -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 14:46:17 2012 From: torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 16:46:17 +0200 Subject: [OT For Sale] Motorola 6120 Cable Modem Message-ID: <1337784377.4fbcf839d5655@imp.free.fr> Offers NO REASONABLE OFFER REFUSED First reasonable offer takes it. Telephone 647 974 2769 Email billhenderson-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 15:10:45 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 11:10:45 -0400 Subject: ARM PC/HTPCs are getting interesting! (Via's APC (Android PC) announced). In-Reply-To: References: <4FBBCC3C.8090102@ss.org> <20120522181751.GG32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120523151045.GH32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 07:19:18PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > What is irritating with the typical ARM system vendors is that they > seem to set up designs as a one-shot, "that's what it'll always be" > thing. If you get a popular model and it has support in the kernel tree from Linus, then you should have long term support. > In the embedded space, that's certainly a tempting thing to do, as > embedded integrators don't want to be changing specs of hardware much, > that's mighty painful to do. > > But it tends to lead to vendors holding to one model for much longer > than they ought to, until long after betternewerfaster stuff has > overshadowed it. > > It is encouraging to me that VIA is doing this; they have been in the > habit of designing motherboards and chipsets that have fairly frequent > refresh cycles for their designs; it seems less likely that they will > fall into that trap. I would actually think constant churn in models is what causes lack of support for a design. So I would consider the VIA design among the least desirable on that basis. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 15:17:28 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 11:17:28 -0400 Subject: Hugin improves Message-ID: Great news for fans of photography who use Linux or FOSS: Hugin has improved dramatically since I last used it. Hugin is a photo-stitcher/panorama-maker. In my previous experiences with it (which go back about five years), it was initially incomprehensible and unusable, then tricky and in desperate need of hand-holding (you had to point out to it every place where two photos matched), then crash-prone and still in need of hand-holding. But this morning, having not used it in perhaps a year, I handed it four photos and it said "is this what you wanted them to look like?" It got it in one. And it did it twice more, no hand-holding. That's not a long enough session for me to feel sure it's no longer crash-prone, but it's seriously got its stuff together on matching pictures. The next big test is to pass it a vertical pano, or a horizontal pano composed of vertical ratio images (I could never get that to work in the past). Or a bunch of overlapping images in both directions. But the ease of use on basic panoramas was spectacular. Take a look if you have the slightest interest. The panoramas I created this morning are from a recent trip, and they aren't on my website yet. Back when it still needed hand-holding, I made this: http://www.gilesorr.com/travels/Rome2009/Rome2009panos.trevi_pano.html - you can do good things with Hugin. The thing about the Trevi fountain ... it turns out that it's in a rather small square, and you simply can't back up far enough to take a single shot of the place without a fisheye lens. Another good moment from Hugin: http://www.gilesorr.com/photography/200906/200906.guild_pano.html . The trick with people is you need them not to be crossing the image join-lines. :-) -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 23 19:04:22 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:04:22 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu Hour(s) at Linuxcaffe, Sunday 27 May Message-ID: <4FBD34B6.7010407@sobac.com> Hi all: I'm going to be wast^H^H^H^H spending some time at Linuxcaffe on Sunday afternoon, 27 May. Starting maybe as early as 2:00pm; ending maybe as late as 6:00pm (anybody know what the actual Sunday hours are?) Thanx to Canonical, Ubuntu-Canada and Darcy, I'll have some shiny new Precise Pangolin (Ubuntu 12.04) CDs to give away. Hope to see you there! Linuxcaffe 326 Harbord St (corner of Grace St.) Toronto, ON M6G3G8 Map: http://osm.org/go/ZX6BaIRO--?m --Bob. -- Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Voice: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cel: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 11:44:05 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 07:44:05 -0400 Subject: Hugin improves In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBE1F05.3040200@gmail.com> On 12-05-23 11:17 , Giles Orr wrote: > Great news for fans of photography who use Linux or FOSS: Hugin has > improved dramatically since I last used it. It's absolutely rock-solid now, and almost always does a better job automatically than if I go in manually and try to fix things. I use it for photomontages at work, so I hae many examples, but all of nothing in particular ... cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 16:10:52 2012 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 12:10:52 -0400 Subject: Small Business Accounting Software Message-ID: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> Hey Everyone, I'm curious about experiences and recommendations with small business accounting/bookkeeping software. This is a new area for me, so packages or services with pointers to good documentation and a community of Ontario small business people using it would be a huge plus. I'm thinking FOSS of course, but online services work too. Thanks, -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david.vangeest-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 17:30:08 2012 From: david.vangeest-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David van Geest) Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 13:30:08 -0400 Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: <4FBE5D8C.5000002-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mike Kallies wrote: > > Hey Everyone, > > I'm curious about experiences and recommendations with small business > accounting/bookkeeping software. ?This is a new area for me, so packages > or services with pointers to good documentation and a community of > Ontario small business people using it would be a huge plus. > > I'm thinking FOSS of course, but online services work too. I've been using Freshbooks (http://www.freshbooks.com/) which has worked quite well for my (very simple) needs. ?It's free up to a certain number of clients. ?The company is based out of Toronto, and I think it's pretty popular. ?Worth checking out to see if its a good fit. They do have a referral program, which apparently would get me 25% cash?commission. ?Not sure what it would do for you, if anything. ?Let me know if you want a link. -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 17:33:34 2012 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 13:33:34 -0400 Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: <4FBE5D8C.5000002-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120524173334.GB20056@watson-wilson.ca> Hi Mike, I've been using GNUcash for some years now. You might search freecode and order by popularity. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 18:11:21 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers DHCP server Message-ID: One more reason to hate Rogers cable internet: they changed my IP number today while my DHCP lease was still alive. I wondered why networking wasn't. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 18:31:58 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 11:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: <4FBE5D8C.5000002-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1337884318.85869.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Spreadsheet? ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Kallies > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:10:52 PM > Subject: [TLUG]: Small Business Accounting Software > > Hey Everyone, > > I'm curious about experiences and recommendations with small business > accounting/bookkeeping software.? This is a new area for me, so packages > or services with pointers to good documentation and a community of > Ontario small business people using it would be a huge plus. > > I'm thinking FOSS of course, but online services work too. > > Thanks, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 20:45:42 2012 From: sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Sammy Lao) Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 16:45:42 -0400 Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: <1337884318.85869.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> <1337884318.85869.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <-6904513251593737585@unknownmsgid> Mike, We have been using LedgerSMB here. It works ok. If you want, you can come by and take a look. But I think the 2n requirement -- large community in Ontario -- won't fit. You can also try Wave Accounting. Sent from my mobile On 2012-05-24, at 14:32, William Park wrote: > Spreadsheet? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Mike Kallies >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Cc: >> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:10:52 PM >> Subject: [TLUG]: Small Business Accounting Software >> >> Hey Everyone, >> >> I'm curious about experiences and recommendations with small business >> accounting/bookkeeping software. This is a new area for me, so packages >> or services with pointers to good documentation and a community of >> Ontario small business people using it would be a huge plus. >> >> I'm thinking FOSS of course, but online services work too. >> >> Thanks, > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 20:56:16 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 16:56:16 -0400 Subject: Rogers DHCP server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FBEA070.7060601@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > One more reason to hate Rogers cable internet: they changed my IP number > today while my DHCP lease was still alive. I wondered why networking > wasn't. > Mine changed recently too. I my address used to start with 99, now 174. What happened is your lease expired at a time that was inconvenient and you were given the new address. I didn't notice until I was checking the IP address for other reasons. At least with Rogers, unlike some of the other providers, the addresses change so seldom they're virtually static. The host name is static, so long as you don't change the hardware. I have a DNS alias that points to the long host name I get from Rogers. Perhaps they've got some changes occurring that required new addresses. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 24 21:06:37 2012 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 17:06:37 -0400 Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: I second the FreshBooks suggestion, but I also work for them, so I'm a touch biased :) We are local to Toronto, and we have free M-F 9-6 support where you'll talk to real people instead of recordings and automated operators. Oh, and as David mentioned, our basic plan is free forever, and includes the same support as the paid version. AND it works great in Firefox and Chromium/Chrome on Linux. -jason PS: We are hiring for a senior *NIX sysadmin/devops position, *hint*hint*. http://www.freshbooks.com/careers/ On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 1:30 PM, David van Geest wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mike Kallies > wrote: > > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > I'm curious about experiences and recommendations with small business > > accounting/bookkeeping software. This is a new area for me, so packages > > or services with pointers to good documentation and a community of > > Ontario small business people using it would be a huge plus. > > > > I'm thinking FOSS of course, but online services work too. > > I've been using Freshbooks (http://www.freshbooks.com/) which has > worked quite well for my (very simple) needs. It's free up to a > certain number of clients. The company is based out of Toronto, and I > think it's pretty popular. Worth checking out to see if its a good > fit. > > They do have a referral program, which apparently would get me 25% > cash commission. Not sure what it would do for you, if anything. Let > me know if you want a link. > > -David > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 02:03:49 2012 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 22:03:49 -0400 Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Jason Shaw wrote: > I second the FreshBooks suggestion, but I also work for them, so I'm a touch > biased :) > > We are local to Toronto, and we have free M-F 9-6 support where you'll talk > to real people instead of recordings and automated operators.? Oh, and as > David mentioned, our basic plan is free forever, and includes the same > support as the paid version. AND it works great in Firefox and > Chromium/Chrome on Linux. > We've used SqlLedger for years and it's pretty decent and stable, and made in CAN. I've heard the fork: LedgerSMB is pretty good as well. Cheers, -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 25 17:03:25 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 13:03:25 -0400 Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: <4FBE5D8C.5000002-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mike Kallies wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > I'm curious about experiences and recommendations with small business > accounting/bookkeeping software. ?This is a new area for me, so packages > or services with pointers to good documentation and a community of > Ontario small business people using it would be a huge plus. > > I'm thinking FOSS of course, but online services work too. The answer which I have been finding preferred, over and over, is Ledger. http://ledger-cli.org/ [1] It's not notably amenable to multi-user usage, but there's not much need for that with small businesses, is there? If it's a small business, there isn't a need for multiple accountants, right? The data is readily human-readable without any need to run it through any special software, which is *notably* valuable when dealing with a professional accountant. They're likely to be keen on only two answers: a) Use "My Favorite Piece Of Software," which is most likely QuickBooks, and you'll fight with that answer at considerable peril that might include the accountant telling you to go away, or b) Let's review the output in detail, in which case ledger data should prove pretty easy to work with. [1] See also... http://hledger.org/ https://github.com/jwiegley/beancount https://github.com/jwiegley/ledger https://github.com/iterationlabs/reckon There is an Emacs, mode, of course! https://github.com/jwiegley/ledger/tree/next/lisp -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 26 22:23:26 2012 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 18:23:26 -0400 Subject: OT: Web hosting site for mobile development course Message-ID: Can anyone suggest a cheap web hosting provider with apache/mysql that I can use for my web development coure? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 26 22:32:08 2012 From: marclijour-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 18:32:08 -0400 Subject: OT: Web hosting site for mobile development course In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Amazon elastic cloud is virtually free for a year. You can install the OS you like. On 2012-05-26 6:24 PM, "Dave Germiquet" wrote: > Can anyone suggest a cheap web hosting provider with apache/mysql that > I can use for my web development coure? > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else > > Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As > it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. > Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being > intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all > electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's > up to you to protect that right. > > * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: > * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event > -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version > or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp > for business implementation. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dave Germiquet > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 28 02:53:15 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 22:53:15 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu Hour(s) at Linuxcaffe, Sunday 27 May In-Reply-To: <4FBD34B6.7010407-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBD34B6.7010407@sobac.com> Message-ID: <4FC2E89B.9080907@sobac.com> Hi again! A few of us met at Linuxcaffe, and had a great time. We even handed out CDs to some people who just wandered by, and wondered what we were up to. Pictures at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Toronto/Meetings/PrecisePangolinUbuntuHour%28s%29 --Bob. On 05/23/2012 03:04 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > Hi all: I'm going to be wast^H^H^H^H spending some time at Linuxcaffe on > Sunday afternoon, 27 May. Starting maybe as early as 2:00pm; ending > maybe as late as 6:00pm (anybody know what the actual Sunday hours are?) > > Thanx to Canonical, Ubuntu-Canada and Darcy, I'll have some shiny new > Precise Pangolin (Ubuntu 12.04) CDs to give away. > > Hope to see you there! > > > Linuxcaffe > 326 Harbord St (corner of Grace St.) > Toronto, ON M6G3G8 > > Map: http://osm.org/go/ZX6BaIRO--?m > > > --Bob. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon May 28 03:03:17 2012 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 13:03:17 +1000 (EST) Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 24 May 2012, Alejandro Imass wrote: > We've used SqlLedger for years and it's pretty decent and stable, and > made in CAN. I've heard the fork: LedgerSMB is pretty good as well. I've used both SqlLedger and LedgerSMB and recommend the latter. The LedgerSMB team cleaned up the code, fixed a bunch of bugs and then moved forward. At least one member of GTALUG has been a long time contributor to LedgerSMB too. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Director, Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Free & Open Source: The revolution that quietly changed the world "One ought not to believe anything, save that which can be proven by nature and the force of reason" -- Frederick II (26 December 1194 ? 13 December 1250) From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 28 17:07:45 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 13:07:45 -0400 Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: <4FBE5D8C.5000002-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mike Kallies wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > I'm curious about experiences and recommendations with small business > accounting/bookkeeping software. ?This is a new area for me, so packages > or services with pointers to good documentation and a community of > Ontario small business people using it would be a huge plus. > > I'm thinking FOSS of course, but online services work too. By the way, Linux Weekly News recently had an article on this which attracted some pretty lively discussion: https://lwn.net/Articles/496158/ -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 28 18:45:21 2012 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 14:45:21 -0400 Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4FC3C7C1.4060600@gmail.com> On 28/05/2012 1:07 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mike Kallies wrote: >> Hey Everyone, >> >> I'm curious about experiences and recommendations with small business >> accounting/bookkeeping software. This is a new area for me, so packages >> or services with pointers to good documentation and a community of >> Ontario small business people using it would be a huge plus. >> >> I'm thinking FOSS of course, but online services work too. > > By the way, Linux Weekly News recently had an article on this which > attracted some pretty lively discussion: > https://lwn.net/Articles/496158/ Wow, lots of great info. I'm thinking I might give Gnucash, Wave Accounting and Freshbooks a shake for a while. LedgerSMB looks like it would be slick for slightly larger operations. I'm leaning towards Gnucash, but Wave Accounting looks like it has some good documentation features. Freshbooks looks interesting, but it's really $20/mo to be useful. Freshbooks www.freshbooks.com - web based (Python) - sliding subscription (0..3 = free, 4..25=$20/mo, 25+=$30/mo ) - no branding invoices at free tier - extra for plug-ins - Toronto based - export/import - Includes credit card processing on electronic invoices? - Commercial support Gnucash http://www.gnucash.org/ - gtk multiplatform - local data - FOSS - Wiki, Mailing list and IRC support LedgerSMB http://www.ledgersmb.org - Served from Apache (Perl) - "local" data (to your server) - GTALUG contributor :-) - Mailing list and IRC support SQLledger http://www.sql-ledger.com - Served from Apache (Perl) - FOSS - paid support model - paid documentation, wiki Wave Accounting http://www.waveaccounting.com - "free" (ad sponsored) - web based - "ridiculously easy to use" - crude CSV export (potential data lockin) Ledger http://ledger-cli.org - Command line - local data - FOSS Spreadsheet - Requires accounting knowledge - Flexible :-) - expensive to have looked at by an accountant Quickbooks - windows binary - Sliding scale (starts at $79/release) - Familiar for accountants Quickbooks web - U.S. hosted - Sliding scale (starts at $9/mo) - Should be familiar for accountants -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon May 28 19:06:34 2012 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 15:06:34 -0400 Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: <4FC3C7C1.4060600-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> <4FC3C7C1.4060600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8BEA9950D068428BAFE35D435EE18697@mylesbraithwaite.com> On Monday, 28 May, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Mike Kallies wrote: > Gnucash http://www.gnucash.org/ > - gtk multiplatform > - local data > - FOSS > - Wiki, Mailing list and IRC support I have heard a lot of people complain about Gnucash corrupting it's data. > Wave Accounting http://www.waveaccounting.com > - "free" (ad sponsored) > - web based > - "ridiculously easy to use" > - crude CSV export (potential data lockin) Wave Accounting is also a Toronto based company that uses Python. They have sponsored a couple Django Toronto meetings. -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 28 19:23:10 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 15:23:10 -0400 Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120528192310.GA11216@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 01:07:45PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > https://lwn.net/Articles/496158/ Very good article. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 28 19:45:04 2012 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 15:45:04 -0400 Subject: Small Business Accounting Software In-Reply-To: <8BEA9950D068428BAFE35D435EE18697-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <4FBE5D8C.5000002@gmail.com> <4FC3C7C1.4060600@gmail.com> <8BEA9950D068428BAFE35D435EE18697@mylesbraithwaite.com> Message-ID: <20120528194504.GA13607@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 03:06:34PM -0400, Myles Braithwaite wrote: >On Monday, 28 May, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Mike Kallies wrote: >> Gnucash http://www.gnucash.org/ >> - gtk multiplatform >> - local data >> - FOSS >> - Wiki, Mailing list and IRC support >I have heard a lot of people complain about Gnucash corrupting it's data. I've used GNUcash for many years. Just one user but I have never had data corruption. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 04:00:51 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 00:00:51 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name Message-ID: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> How do I find out the long and impossible-to-remember dns name that Rogers has asssigned my IP address? It would be convenient to know when I suspect that my semi-static IP address has changed and I am in, say, New Zealand... -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 04:09:36 2012 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 00:09:36 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> Message-ID: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:00 AM, Peter King wrote: > How do I find out the long and impossible-to-remember dns name that Rogers > has asssigned my IP address? It would be convenient to know when I suspect > that my semi-static IP address has changed and I am in, say, New Zealand... > nslookup -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 08:03:00 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 04:03:00 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> Message-ID: <20120529080300.GA2243@amber> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:09:36AM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > nslookup Of course! << slaps forehead >> Thank you! -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 11:22:58 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 07:22:58 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> Message-ID: <4FC4B192.7070505@rogers.com> Peter King wrote: > How do I find out the long and impossible-to-remember dns name that Rogers > has asssigned my IP address? It would be convenient to know when I suspect > that my semi-static IP address has changed and I am in, say, New Zealand... > First determine your current IP address and then use the host command to get the host name. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 11:38:13 2012 From: el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 07:38:13 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: <4FC4B192.7070505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> <4FC4B192.7070505@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 7:22 AM, James Knott wrote: > Peter King wrote: >> >> How do I find out the long and impossible-to-remember dns name that Rogers >> has asssigned my IP address? It would be convenient to know when I suspect >> that my semi-static IP address has changed and I am in, say, New >> Zealand... >> > > First determine your current IP address and then use the host command to get > the host name. > ...although you're probably better off setting up "Dynamic DNS" a.k.a DynDNS service, to obtain a DNS name that can be recalled by humans. You'll be stuck with an uncool domain name "e.g. dyndns.org" but you can choose a host name. Commodity NAT firewall / Internet access devices usually support DynDNS. Cheers, Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 12:01:13 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 08:01:13 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> <4FC4B192.7070505@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FC4BA89.9010903@rogers.com> Mike wrote: >> First determine your current IP address and then use the host command to get >> > the host name. >> > > ...although you're probably better off setting up "Dynamic DNS" a.k.a > DynDNS service, to obtain a DNS name that can be recalled by humans. > You'll be stuck with an uncool domain name "e.g. dyndns.org" but you > can choose a host name. Commodity NAT firewall / Internet access > devices usually support DynDNS. I have my own domain name with Google Apps. I set up an alias on the DNS server that points to that long name. Google Apps costs $10/year, but I believe there are some free DNS servers available. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 14:04:17 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 07:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: <4FC4BA89.9010903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> <4FC4B192.7070505@rogers.com> <4FC4BA89.9010903@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1338300257.85714.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Does anyone know if Yahoo/Google have Dynamic DNS service? I finally set up my D-Link router to use their Dynamic DNS, but I would prefer Yahoo/Google in case the router craps out. -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: James Knott >... > I have my own domain name with Google Apps.? I set up > an alias on the DNS server that points to that long name. > Google Apps costs $10/year, but I believe there are some > free DNS servers available. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 14:31:02 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 10:31:02 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: <20120529080300.GA2243@amber> References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> <20120529080300.GA2243@amber> Message-ID: <20120529143102.GI32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 04:03:00AM -0400, Peter King wrote: > On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:09:36AM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > > > nslookup > > Of course! << slaps forehead >> Thank you! Or you could do: host nslookup has been deprecated for close to a decade now after all. Better get used to NOT using it. Besides host is 4 less characters to type. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 14:56:03 2012 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 10:56:03 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: <20120529143102.GI32729-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> <20120529080300.GA2243@amber> <20120529143102.GI32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > > > > Or you could do: > > host > > nslookup has been deprecated for close to a decade now after all. > Better get used to NOT using it. > > Besides host is 4 less characters to type. > > Take it even further, 'dig' is one character less than 'host' ;) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 14:57:44 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 10:57:44 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> <20120529080300.GA2243@amber> <20120529143102.GI32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120529145744.GJ32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 10:56:03AM -0400, Aaron Doucette wrote: > Take it even further, 'dig' is one character less than 'host' ;) True, but I never have figured out what the argument to dig should look like to do anything useful. host is simple. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 15:19:36 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> Message-ID: | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | How do I find out the long and impossible-to-remember dns name that Rogers | has asssigned my IP address? Others have answered. So I'll diverge. How do you find out your Rogers IP address from inside your NAPTed LAN? The thread from earlier this month "How do you check your external IP?" had good answers. My favourite, from Sadiq Saif, was curl -q http://icanhazip.com/ What is that odd domain name that Rogers gives you? It turns out that part of the name is the MAC address, in hex, of the device talking to the modem. In most setups, that is the MAC address of the WAN interface of the broadband router. The MAC address is preceded by CPE (Customer Premises Equipment?). The second part starts with CM and looks like it might be a MAC address too. The same number is listed on the modem's label as HFC MAC ID. If I use the OUI Lookup Tool on the CM number, it says: 00:0F:9F Motorola Mobility, Inc. This makes sense as the cable modem is a Motorola device. If I google for my CM number, all the hits are for me. So it looks to be unique (as a MAC should be). Spooky: google finds geolocation pages and lots of ancient IRC logs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 15:30:36 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: <20120529145744.GJ32729-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> <20120529080300.GA2243@amber> <20120529143102.GI32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120529145744.GJ32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | True, but I never have figured out what the argument to dig should look | like to do anything useful. host is simple. If host(1) does what you want, it would be crazy to use dig. Dig's output is a barely digested DNS response. You need to understand the sections of the response (Question, Answer, Authority, Additional). You need to know that the absence of an Answer section is meaningful. You need to find the relevant information buried in the avalanche. You need to know that if you don't specify the type of query, if there is any cached entry (of any type), it will only give you what is in the cache. I do use dig for figuring what's up with DNS. It has lots of controls and it doesn't hide anything from you. To a fault. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 15:49:30 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:49:30 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: <1338300257.85714.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> <4FC4B192.7070505@rogers.com> <4FC4BA89.9010903@rogers.com> <1338300257.85714.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4FC4F00A.6070503@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > Does anyone know if Yahoo/Google have Dynamic DNS service? > I finally set up my D-Link router to use their Dynamic DNS, > but I would prefer Yahoo/Google in case the router craps out. As I mentioned in another note, Google has a DNS service, but I don't recall them offering Dynamic DNS. However, as long as you have a consistent host name, as I have on Rogers, you can set up an alias that points to it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 16:17:24 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 12:17:24 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> Message-ID: <4FC4F694.3020505@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > How do you find out your Rogers IP address from inside your NAPTed > LAN? The thread from earlier this month "How do you check your > external IP?" had good answers. My favourite, from Sadiq Saif, was > curl -qhttp://icanhazip.com/ Another method is go to www.grc.com and run ShieldsUp!!. It will tell you your host name and IP address. While you're there, you can then fire up a port scan to test your firewall. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 18:00:56 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 14:00:56 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> Message-ID: <20120529180056.GK32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:19:36AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Others have answered. So I'll diverge. > > How do you find out your Rogers IP address from inside your NAPTed > LAN? The thread from earlier this month "How do you check your > external IP?" had good answers. My favourite, from Sadiq Saif, was > curl -q http://icanhazip.com/ > > What is that odd domain name that Rogers gives you? It turns out that > part of the name is the MAC address, in hex, of the device talking to > the modem. In most setups, that is the MAC address of the WAN > interface of the broadband router. The MAC address is preceded by CPE > (Customer Premises Equipment?). > > The second part starts with CM and looks like it might be a MAC > address too. The same number is listed on the modem's label as HFC > MAC ID. > > If I use the OUI Lookup Tool > > on the CM number, it says: > 00:0F:9F Motorola Mobility, Inc. > This makes sense as the cable modem is a Motorola device. > > If I google for my CM number, all the hits are for me. So it looks to > be unique (as a MAC should be). Spooky: google finds geolocation > pages and lots of ancient IRC logs. The address is cpeCABLEMODEMMAC-cmETHERNETMAC, plus some bits indicated the region on the rogers cable network you are in. So if you connect a plain old cable modem to your PC, then it will have the cable modem's address and your PC's ethernet card address. If you connect the cable modem to a router, it will have the router's mac address. With the newer cablemodem/router integrated things, both MAC addresses would come from that device. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 20:15:31 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 16:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: <20120529180056.GK32729-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> <20120529180056.GK32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | The address is cpeCABLEMODEMMAC-cmETHERNETMAC, plus some bits indicated | the region on the rogers cable network you are in. Other way around on my system: cpeETHERNETMAC-cmCABLEMODEMMAC And the only other bits look generic: cpe.net.cable.rogers.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 29 21:12:27 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:12:27 -0400 Subject: Rogers static name In-Reply-To: References: <20120529040051.GA1191@amber> <20120529180056.GK32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120529211227.GL32729@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 04:15:31PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Other way around on my system: cpeETHERNETMAC-cmCABLEMODEMMAC > And the only other bits look generic: cpe.net.cable.rogers.com Oops. Yes of course. :) The other bit used to be a bit more specific as far as I remember, but yeah it seems rather generic now. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 12:03:47 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 08:03:47 -0400 Subject: Flame virus set to spread like wildfire Message-ID: <4FC60CA3.7000107@rogers.com> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/tech-news/flame-virus-set-to-spread-like-wildfire/article2447114/ Excerpt: It is perhaps the most sophisticated piece of malicious software ever designed ? a digital surveillance device so complex it ran on sensitive government computer networks for years, undetected. And now, a tool that was almost certainly developed for state-sanctioned cyberwarfare is out in the open, soon to make its way into the hands of everyone from computer virus researchers to criminal gangs. Comment: Governments, anywhere in the world, using Windows software, are placing their country's security at risk. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 12:14:58 2012 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 08:14:58 -0400 Subject: Flame virus set to spread like wildfire In-Reply-To: <4FC60CA3.7000107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FC60CA3.7000107@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FC60F42.7060701@the-wire.com> On 05/30/2012 08:03 AM, Stephen wrote: > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/tech-news/flame-virus-set-to-spread-like-wildfire/article2447114/ > > > Excerpt: > > It is perhaps the most sophisticated piece of malicious software ever > designed ? a digital surveillance device so complex it ran on > sensitive government computer networks for years, undetected. > > And now, a tool that was almost certainly developed for > state-sanctioned cyberwarfare is out in the open, soon to make its way > into the hands of everyone from computer virus researchers to criminal > gangs. > > Comment: > > Governments, anywhere in the world, using Windows software, are > placing their country's security at risk. ... and consumerized software generally. Imagine 20MB of code, huge amounts of net traffic, etc. all hiding in plain sight because the user isn't aware that the system is not supposed to be doing that. "What's that tractor-trailer loading out of my garage? And what were those people burying in my back yard last night?" "Don't worry, Mr. Stephen. It's all under control." ??? Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 30 14:02:30 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 10:02:30 -0400 Subject: Flame virus set to spread like wildfire In-Reply-To: <4FC60CA3.7000107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FC60CA3.7000107@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Stephen wrote: > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/tech-news/flame-virus-set-to-spread-like-wildfire/article2447114/ I was amused to read that it has a full Lua runtime - a rather decent and tiny scripting language - and other libraries embedded. I wonder how long it will be before we see a "Lua = teh bads" article in the press ... (My Canon Powershot runs Lua via CHDK. Does that mean it's evil?) cheers, Stewart -- http://scruss.com/blog/ - 73 de VA3PID -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 01:34:04 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 21:34:04 -0400 Subject: How do you check your external IP? In-Reply-To: <20120513013210.GA31185-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120512162917.GA28032@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120513013210.GA31185@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120531013404.GA24727@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 09:32:10PM -0400, William Park wrote: > #!/bin/sh > > EMAIL= # your email address > NEW=~/checkip.new # file containing new IP > OLD=~/checkip.old # file containing old IP > > case $(( $RANDOM % 6 )) in > 0) lynx -dump http://cfaj.freeshell.org/ipaddr.cgi ;; Unfortunately, Chris's page has too many outages. So, if you're using my script, replace it with http://myip.dnsomatic.com/ -- William > 1) lynx -dump http://checkip.dyndns.org/ | grep 'Current IP Address:' ;; > 2) lynx -dump http://icanhazip.com/ ;; > 3) lynx -dump http://ipchicken.com/ | grep 'Name Address:' | sed -e 's/.*: \([0-9-]\+\).*/\1/' -e 's/-/./g' ;; > 4) lynx -dump http://myip.dnsdynamic.com/ ;; > 5) lynx -dump http://whatismyip.com/ | grep 'Your IP Address Is:' ;; > esac | tr -c -d '0-9.' > $NEW > > if test -s $NEW && ! diff -q $NEW $OLD 1>/dev/null; then > mutt $EMAIL -s "newip = $(< $NEW)" < /dev/null > mv $NEW $OLD > fi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 15:36:06 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 11:36:06 -0400 Subject: Flame virus set to spread like wildfire In-Reply-To: <4FC60CA3.7000107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FC60CA3.7000107@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FC78FE6.6000403@ve3syb.ca> On 12-05-30 08:03 AM, Stephen wrote: > Excerpt: > > It is perhaps the most sophisticated piece of malicious software ever > designed ? a digital surveillance device so complex it ran on sensitive > government computer networks for years, undetected. The virus has been around for years and only now is it going to spread like wildfire?? I see these types of messages now and then. I tend to ignore them for two reasons. One, I rarely run Windows. Two, they smack of being little more than generators of FUD. People will pass along information in the interest of letting their friends know of a threat that could affect them without knowing if their is any validity to the threat. There was a time when virus alert notices were being circulated when the virus the alert reported on didn't exist. For newspapers, there is no news like "bad" news. In this case, bad takes on several meanings. It's bad news, but also a bad effort as it is lacking in hard information (which operating system(s) could be affected, who might be impacted by this, how it will suddenly start spreading after it's been around so long). These things pop up now and then. Always good news for makers of anti-virus programs to get people to panic and make sure their anti-virus program subscriptions are up to date, or that its time to buy an anti-virus program. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org Thu May 31 23:08:16 2012 From: mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org (Molly Tournquist) Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 19:08:16 -0400 Subject: Flame virus set to spread like wildfire Message-ID: <20120531230818.50600@gmx.com> Hey, why couldn't it? Now that it's lost its cover, there's no longer the same reasons to hold back with it. Other entities will want to get their hands on the source, and those close to the operators of it will feel the strongest opportunity, assuming no handling of it has been delegated yet. Some will try to reverse engineer it, take control of it, and/or exploit its unusual modularity. After all, it's not really a virus. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kevin Cozens > Sent: 05/31/12 11:36 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Flame virus set to spread like wildfire > > On 12-05-30 08:03 AM, Stephen wrote: > > Excerpt: > > > > It is perhaps the most sophisticated piece of malicious software ever > > designed ? a digital surveillance device so complex it ran on sensitive > > government computer networks for years, undetected. > > The virus has been around for years and only now is it going to spread like > wildfire?? I see these types of messages now and then. I tend to ignore them > for two reasons. One, I rarely run Windows. Two, they smack of being little > more than generators of FUD. > > People will pass along information in the interest of letting their friends > know of a threat that could affect them without knowing if their is any > validity to the threat. There was a time when virus alert notices were being > circulated when the virus the alert reported on didn't exist. > > For newspapers, there is no news like "bad" news. In this case, bad takes on > several meanings. It's bad news, but also a bad effort as it is lacking in > hard information (which operating system(s) could be affected, who might be > impacted by this, how it will suddenly start spreading after it's been > around so long). > > These things pop up now and then. Always good news for makers of anti-virus > programs to get people to panic and make sure their anti-virus program > subscriptions are up to date, or that its time to buy an anti-virus program. > > -- > Cheers! > > Kevin. > > http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract > Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're > ?| powerful!" > #include | --Chris Hardwick > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists