From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 1 18:25:02 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 13:25:02 -0500 Subject: Interesting linker 'extension' from Firefox folk Message-ID: The Firefox folks have done an interesting thing with library linkages... http://glandium.org/blog/?p=2436 See code: https://github.com/glandium/faulty.lib Notion is that library code that doesn't *actually* get referenced shouldn't necessarily need to get drawn into memory immediately, or perhaps even ever. Evidently Firefox has quite a lot of code of that sort. I wouldn't be surprised if the same is true for LibreOffice, KDE, GNOME... They built a linker (valid for Linux and Android) which puts libraries into a compressed form that may be accessed in "slices", so that only those slices that actually get referenced get uncompressed and loaded into memory. Smells a bit like the Multics notion of "library faults". The latter was more powerful; it would allow suspending the code, and you could conceivably stop, implement the code that would support whatever function was requested, and then let the application continue, running against code that perhaps hadn't yet been implemented when you started up the application. That's not an approach that's anywhere near being called "friendly" to non-programmers, but could certainly be interesting during development of an application. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 1 19:01:09 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 14:01:09 -0500 Subject: Interesting linker 'extension' from Firefox folk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120301190109.GA22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Mar 01, 2012 at 01:25:02PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > The Firefox folks have done an interesting thing with library linkages... > http://glandium.org/blog/?p=2436 > > See code: > https://github.com/glandium/faulty.lib > > Notion is that library code that doesn't *actually* get referenced > shouldn't necessarily need to get drawn into memory immediately, or > perhaps even ever. Evidently Firefox has quite a lot of code of that > sort. I wouldn't be surprised if the same is true for LibreOffice, > KDE, GNOME... > > They built a linker (valid for Linux and Android) which puts libraries > into a compressed form that may be accessed in "slices", so that only > those slices that actually get referenced get uncompressed and loaded > into memory. Smells a bit like the Multics notion of "library > faults". Why do I suspect this breaks shared memory copies of libraries which we currently enjoy? I know android does weird stuff with libraries, but then again I don't care. Of course if it is a library that is only used by firefox, then I suppose it doesn't matter. After all who has multiuser systems anymore where multiple users might run the same program. > The latter was more powerful; it would allow suspending the code, and > you could conceivably stop, implement the code that would support > whatever function was requested, and then let the application > continue, running against code that perhaps hadn't yet been > implemented when you started up the application. That's not an > approach that's anywhere near being called "friendly" to > non-programmers, but could certainly be interesting during development > of an application. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 1 21:33:01 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 16:33:01 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi Message-ID: The CBC has a story about the Raspberry Pi : http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/03/01/technology-raspberry-pi-launch.html . Seems the first batch of 10,000 machines sold out in under 2.5 hours... I want one... Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 1 21:43:29 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2012 16:43:29 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F4FED81.6050501@ve3syb.ca> On 12-03-01 04:33 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > The CBC has a story about the Raspberry Pi : > http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/03/01/technology-raspberry-pi-launch.html > . Seems the first batch of 10,000 machines sold out in under 2.5 > hours... Oh. :-P So, none available for North America in that case. Looks like we have to keep waiting. I would like to get one of these once they are available in my part of the world. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 1 21:51:00 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 16:51:00 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <4F4FED81.6050501-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4F4FED81.6050501@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 12-03-01 04:33 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> The CBC has a story about the Raspberry Pi : >> >> http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/03/01/technology-raspberry-pi-launch.html >> . Seems the first batch of 10,000 machines sold out in under 2.5 >> hours... > > Oh. :-P ?So, none available for North America in that case. Looks like we > have to keep waiting. I would like to get one of these once they are > available in my part of the world. Until more machines are manufactured none are available for anyone in any part of the world. > -- > Cheers! > > Kevin. > > http://www.ve3syb.ca/ ? ? ? ? ? |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract > Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 ? ? ?| the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| powerful!" > #include | ? ? ? ? ? ? --Chris Hardwick > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 1 21:52:43 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 13:52:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> If they were to make ATX/mATX/ITX form factor, would the price be different?? I mean, this is for educational and development purpose, so putting it in an old computer case (motherboard replacement) would be okay, no? -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: Colin McGregor > To: tlug > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:33:01 PM > Subject: [TLUG]: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi > >T he CBC has a story about the Raspberry Pi : > http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/03/01/technology-raspberry-pi-launch.html > . Seems the first batch of 10,000 machines sold out in under 2.5 > hours... > > I want one... > > > Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 1 22:02:56 2012 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2012 17:02:56 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3P6X00i2u5GFvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F4FF210.1030906@alteeve.com> William Park wrote: > If they were to make ATX/mATX/ITX form factor, would the price be > different? I mean, this is for educational and development purpose, > so putting it in an old computer case (motherboard replacement) > would be okay, no? > -- > William > With a little creative wiring, it could fit into just about Any computer case. :) Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hanoglu_b-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 1 23:26:00 2012 From: hanoglu_b-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Burhan Hanoglu) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 15:26:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1330644360.90915.YahooMailNeo@web113811.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> "The $35 Raspberry Pi Model B, which is the size of a credit card and runs on open-source software developed at Toronto's Seneca College, became available for pre-order at 1 a.m. ET Wednesday from British manufacturers and distributors Premier Farnell and RS Components." from?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi?: Software On 19 February 2012 the Raspberry Pi Foundation released its first proof of concept SD Card image that can be loaded onto an SD Card to produce a preliminary operating system. The image is based upon?Debian?6.0 (Squeeze), with the?LXDE?desktop and the?Midori browser, plus various programming tools. The image can also run on?QEMUallowing the Raspberry Pi to be emulated on various other platforms.[57] The Raspberry Pi Foundation has released a version of Fedora,[58]?developed at?Seneca College?in Canada,[59]?later. The Foundation intends to create an?App Store?website for people to exchange programs.[60] Furthermore; Fedora was not developed at Seneca College... Maybe it's best to advise CBC... Regards, Burhan >________________________________ > From: Colin McGregor >To: tlug >Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:33:01 PM >Subject: [TLUG]: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi > >The CBC has a story about the Raspberry Pi : >http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/03/01/technology-raspberry-pi-launch.html >. Seems the first batch of 10,000 machines sold out in under 2.5 >hours... > >I want one... > > >Colin >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 1 23:46:42 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 18:46:42 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <1330644360.90915.YahooMailNeo-JjjobmVX0cGORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1330644360.90915.YahooMailNeo@web113811.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Burhan Hanoglu wrote: > Furthermore; Fedora was not developed at Seneca College... Maybe it's best > to advise CBC... If the development efforts for getting Fedora running on Raspberry Pi took place primarily at Seneca, then the statement seems to be close enough to saying that to not quibble too much over it. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hanoglu_b-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 00:15:35 2012 From: hanoglu_b-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Burhan Hanoglu) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 16:15:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: References: <1330644360.90915.YahooMailNeo@web113811.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1330647335.83115.YahooMailNeo@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> There is a difference between those two statements... -"...and runs on open-source software developed at Toronto's Seneca College,..." (from http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/03/01/technology-raspberry-pi-launch.html) -"...a version of Fedora,?developed at?Seneca College?in Canada,..." (from?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi) It's?not an "open-source software developed at Seneca".?It is a version of Fedora?developed at Seneca, or?an?open-source software developed at Seneca based on Fedora, or a modified Fedora distribution; same as Ubuntu being developed based on Debian. Worth to mention the difference considering general public will not understand the concept as we do here. Sincerely, Burhan >________________________________ > From: Christopher Browne >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 6:46:42 PM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi > >On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Burhan Hanoglu wrote: >> Furthermore; Fedora was not developed at Seneca College... Maybe it's best >> to advise CBC... > >If the development efforts for getting Fedora running on Raspberry Pi >took place primarily at Seneca, then the statement seems to be close >enough to saying that to not quibble too much over it. >-- >When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the >question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 01:05:04 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2012 20:05:04 -0500 Subject: Raspberry Pi Launched... In-Reply-To: <001801ccf707$c26ff290$474fd7b0$@com> References: <001801ccf707$c26ff290$474fd7b0$@com> Message-ID: <4F501CC0.5030705@ve3syb.ca> On 12-02-29 12:29 PM, Jeffrey Pikul wrote: >> The Raspberry Pi, $35 computer is now on sale : >> http://www.raspberrypi.org/ > > Premier Farnell has a Canadian affiliate that has a 30 day > wait, non-cancellable, non-refundable order page: Interesting to note that Newark is charing $37.84 for the $35 boards. The extra $2.84 must be their form of handling fee (unless its some sort of money conversion difference). Still, its a lot better than the $20 handling fee some European buyers faced. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 01:46:22 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 20:46:22 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3P6X00i2u5GFvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 4:52 PM, William Park wrote: > If they were to make ATX/mATX/ITX form factor, would the price be > different?? I mean, this is for educational and development purpose, > so putting it in an old computer case (motherboard replacement) > would be okay, no? If they made the machine in an ATX/mATX/ITX form factor the price would have to be different (higher). Bottom line as a printed circuit board gets bigger it gets more expensive. Further on several levels I don't see how this gets you anywhere, the power connector on a normal ATX power supply isn't compatible with the Raspberry Pi, ditto video connectors, etc... If I were proceeding with this RIGHT NOW my first choice would be to build a custom case from scratch. My second choice would be to get the likes of a 3.5" external hard drive case and adapt that (frill holes in the front of the case, run short jumper cables to the Raspberry Pi, and solder in a short adapter to the power connector). Colin > -- > William > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Colin McGregor >> To: tlug >> Cc: >> Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:33:01 PM >> Subject: [TLUG]: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi >> >>T he CBC has a story about the Raspberry Pi : >> http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/03/01/technology-raspberry-pi-launch.html >> . Seems the first batch of 10,000 machines sold out in under 2.5 >> hours... >> >> I want one... >> >> >> Colin > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 03:11:41 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2012 22:11:41 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <1330647335.83115.YahooMailNeo-JjjobmVX0cEHBU+L9ui1Svu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1330644360.90915.YahooMailNeo@web113811.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1330647335.83115.YahooMailNeo@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F503A6D.5040202@utoronto.ca> On 12-03-01 07:15 PM, Burhan Hanoglu wrote: > There is a difference between those two statements... > > -"...and runs on open-source software developed at Toronto's Seneca College,..." > (from http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/03/01/technology-raspberry-pi-launch.html) > > > -"...a version of Fedora, developed at Seneca College in Canada,..." > (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi) > > > It's not an "open-source software developed at Seneca". It is a version of Fedora developed at Seneca, or an open-source software developed at Seneca based on Fedora, or a modified Fedora distribution; same as Ubuntu being developed based on Debian. > > Worth to mention the difference considering general public will not understand the concept as we do here. Really depends on the audience I'd say. I'm sure some are lost at Linux, nevermind open source or Fedora. We're Linux hacks, professionals, amateurs and experts. I think it is safe to say your average CBC reader is not any of those. It's a mainstream news outlet - everyone should be pleased that even this much attention has been paid to Raspberry Pi. Further splitting of hairs is what makes us come off as pedants and zealots to newcomers. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 03:44:11 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 22:44:11 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Mar 01, 2012 at 08:46:22PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 4:52 PM, William Park wrote: > > If they were to make ATX/mATX/ITX form factor, would the price be > > different?? I mean, this is for educational and development purpose, > > so putting it in an old computer case (motherboard replacement) > > would be okay, no? > > If they made the machine in an ATX/mATX/ITX form factor the price > would have to be different (higher). Bottom line as a printed circuit > board gets bigger it gets more expensive. Further on several levels I > don't see how this gets you anywhere, the power connector on a normal > ATX power supply isn't compatible with the Raspberry Pi, ditto video > connectors, etc... > > If I were proceeding with this RIGHT NOW my first choice would be to > build a custom case from scratch. My second choice would be to get the > likes of a 3.5" external hard drive case and adapt that (frill holes > in the front of the case, run short jumper cables to the Raspberry Pi, > and solder in a short adapter to the power connector). I think price will be go down. It needs special connectors and special case, purely because of its special small size. If they make it in standard form factor, then they can put standard connectors. And, we can put them in any old computers which we have plenty of. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 12:55:42 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 07:55:42 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <20120302034411.GA3524-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:44 PM, William Park wrote: > On Thu, Mar 01, 2012 at 08:46:22PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: >> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 4:52 PM, William Park wrote: >> > If they were to make ATX/mATX/ITX form factor, would the price be >> > different?? I mean, this is for educational and development purpose, >> > so putting it in an old computer case (motherboard replacement) >> > would be okay, no? >> >> If they made the machine in an ATX/mATX/ITX form factor the price >> would have to be different (higher). Bottom line as a printed circuit >> board gets bigger it gets more expensive. Further on several levels I >> don't see how this gets you anywhere, the power connector on a normal >> ATX power supply isn't compatible with the Raspberry Pi, ditto video >> connectors, etc... >> >> If I were proceeding with this RIGHT NOW my first choice would be to >> build a custom case from scratch. My second choice would be to get the >> likes of a 3.5" external hard drive case and ?adapt that (drill holes >> in the front of the case, run short jumper cables to the Raspberry Pi, >> and solder in a short adapter to the power connector). > > I think price will be go down. ?It needs special connectors and special > case, purely because of its special small size. ?If they make it in > standard form factor, then they can put standard connectors. ?And, we > can put them in any old computers which we have plenty of. Actually, all the connectors on the Raspberry Pi are more-or-less standard. The power connector is one of the tiny USB ones, so (depending on model) a spare/after-market cell phone charger will power the Raspberry Pi. The HDMI, composite video, audio, USB, SD card, and Ethernet connectors are all also standard stuff. What I see as being far more likely than the Raspberry Pi changing shape to accommodate old PC cases is one or more firms offering some sort of commercially made case specifically for the Raspberry Pi (and here I think the builders of those external 3.5"/2.5" hard drive cases would have a good head start on other firms). > William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen.a.gordon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 14:29:10 2012 From: stephen.a.gordon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stephen Gordon) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 09:29:10 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <4F503A6D.5040202-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1330644360.90915.YahooMailNeo@web113811.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1330647335.83115.YahooMailNeo@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4F503A6D.5040202@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:11 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 12-03-01 07:15 PM, Burhan Hanoglu wrote: >> There is a difference between those two statements... >> >> -"...and runs on open-source software developed at Toronto's Seneca College,..." >> (from http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/03/01/technology-raspberry-pi-launch.html) >> >> >> -"...a version of Fedora, developed at Seneca College in Canada,..." >> (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi) >> >> >> It's not an "open-source software developed at Seneca". It is a version of Fedora developed at Seneca, or an open-source software developed at Seneca based on Fedora, or a modified Fedora distribution; same as Ubuntu being developed based on Debian. >> >> Worth to mention the difference considering general public will not understand the concept as we do here. > > Really depends on the audience I'd say. I'm sure some are lost at Linux, > nevermind open source or Fedora. We're Linux hacks, professionals, > amateurs and experts. I think it is safe to say your average CBC reader > is not any of those. > > It's a mainstream news outlet - everyone should be pleased that even > this much attention has been paid to Raspberry Pi. Further splitting of > hairs is what makes us come off as pedants and zealots to newcomers. > > Jamon For your entertainment I present the article a news outlet back home ran with covering this: http://www.news.com.au/technology/that-is-one-ugly-computer-but-its-35-bucks/story-e6frfro0-1226286309105 Steve -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 14:52:48 2012 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 09:52:48 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <20120302034411.GA3524-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> On 03/01/2012 10:44 PM, William Park wrote: > > I think price will be go down. It needs special connectors and special > case, purely because of its special small size. If they make it in > standard form factor, then they can put standard connectors. And, we > can put them in any old computers which we have plenty of. The target demographic has a de facto standard case, and its the Altoids mint tin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From do.ming.lum-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 15:08:26 2012 From: do.ming.lum-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Do-Ming Lum) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 10:08:26 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: References: <1330644360.90915.YahooMailNeo@web113811.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1330647335.83115.YahooMailNeo@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4F503A6D.5040202@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: CBC Radio's Metro Morning show had Raspberry Pi coverage this morning with one of the software developers from Seneca College. (Sorry I forgot the name -- someone was changing lanes, apparently with the intent to commit vehicular homicide and I ended up being somewhat distracted at that part of the interview). Hopefully, this egment will show up as a highlight for today: http://www.cbc.ca/metromorning/episodes/ On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Stephen Gordon wrote: > On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:11 PM, Jamon Camisso > wrote: > > On 12-03-01 07:15 PM, Burhan Hanoglu wrote: > >> There is a difference between those two statements... > >> > >> -"...and runs on open-source software developed at Toronto's Seneca > College,..." > >> (from > http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/03/01/technology-raspberry-pi-launch.html > ) > >> > >> > >> -"...a version of Fedora, developed at Seneca College in Canada,..." > >> (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi) > >> > >> > >> It's not an "open-source software developed at Seneca". It is a version > of Fedora developed at Seneca, or an open-source software developed at > Seneca based on Fedora, or a modified Fedora distribution; same as Ubuntu > being developed based on Debian. > >> > >> Worth to mention the difference considering general public will not > understand the concept as we do here. > > > > Really depends on the audience I'd say. I'm sure some are lost at Linux, > > nevermind open source or Fedora. We're Linux hacks, professionals, > > amateurs and experts. I think it is safe to say your average CBC reader > > is not any of those. > > > > It's a mainstream news outlet - everyone should be pleased that even > > this much attention has been paid to Raspberry Pi. Further splitting of > > hairs is what makes us come off as pedants and zealots to newcomers. > > > > Jamon > > For your entertainment I present the article a news outlet back home > ran with covering this: > > > http://www.news.com.au/technology/that-is-one-ugly-computer-but-its-35-bucks/story-e6frfro0-1226286309105 > > Steve > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 16:19:40 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 11:19:40 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: References: <1330644360.90915.YahooMailNeo@web113811.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1330647335.83115.YahooMailNeo@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4F503A6D.5040202@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Stephen Gordon wrote: > For your entertainment I present the article a news outlet back home > ran with covering this: > > http://www.news.com.au/technology/that-is-one-ugly-computer-but-its-35-bucks/story-e6frfro0-1226286309105 +1 for sense of humour. -1 for thinking it comes from the US; they misspelled "UK" :-). -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 16:47:49 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 11:47:49 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120302164749.GB22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 07:55:42AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Actually, all the connectors on the Raspberry Pi are more-or-less > standard. The power connector is one of the tiny USB ones, so > (depending on model) a spare/after-market cell phone charger will > power the Raspberry Pi. The HDMI, composite video, audio, USB, SD > card, and Ethernet connectors are all also standard stuff. > > What I see as being far more likely than the Raspberry Pi changing > shape to accommodate old PC cases is one or more firms offering some > sort of commercially made case specifically for the Raspberry Pi (and > here I think the builders of those external 3.5"/2.5" hard drive cases > would have a good head start on other firms). Why would you want a PC case for something with no drive connectors? It doesn't need a case to hold things, just a case to protect it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 16:49:37 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 11:49:37 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <4F50DEC0.4030000-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <20120302164937.GC22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 09:52:48AM -0500, Mel Wilson wrote: > On 03/01/2012 10:44 PM, William Park wrote: > > > >I think price will be go down. It needs special connectors and special > >case, purely because of its special small size. If they make it in > >standard form factor, then they can put standard connectors. And, we > >can put them in any old computers which we have plenty of. > The target demographic has a de facto standard case, and its the > Altoids mint tin. > Something like this would be nice: https://www.adafruit.com/products/699 if they made a version that fit the pi. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 17:23:43 2012 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 12:23:43 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <20120302164937.GC22243-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> <20120302164937.GC22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 2 March 2012 11:49, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Something like this would be nice: > > https://www.adafruit.com/products/699 That is, if you're willing to pay more than half the price of the Raspberry Pi board itself. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 19:13:09 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 14:13:09 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> <20120302164937.GC22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120302191309.GD22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 12:23:43PM -0500, Scott Allen wrote: > On 2 March 2012 11:49, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Something like this would be nice: > > > > https://www.adafruit.com/products/699 > > That is, if you're willing to pay more than half the price of the > Raspberry Pi board itself. I paid $100 US for an i.MX53 QSB. I don't have any interest in the pi at this point. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 19:55:15 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 14:55:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <20120302191309.GD22243-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> <20120302164937.GC22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302191309.GD22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | I paid $100 US for an i.MX53 QSB. I don't have any interest in the pi | at this point. :) List price is US$149. I think HDMI-out is an added cost option. CPU is better (twice the clock rate, newer ARM standard). RAM is much better (1G). Don't know about video drivers. So many choices. To me, the RaspberryPi is cheap enough that buying it is not much of a decision. The i.MX53 QSB not so much. At the price of the i.MX53 QSB, I think that a Dreamplug would be closer to my desires. But then I bought a tiny bare-bones AMD e-350 system for only $100 recently and that is pretty nice. Today, if you are in the US, you can get this for $24.99, including shipping: (Go to their sale page.) They are pretty cute (I have one). MIPS-based wireless mini-router with open source firmware. It includes the case and power supply but a limited set of outputs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 20:48:35 2012 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:48:35 -0500 Subject: Activists creating decentralized mesh network that can't be blocked, filtered or silenced In-Reply-To: <4F4BBC93.9000606-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <97235db7-d560-4cdd-8e89-55794a00e528@zimbra> <4F4BBC93.9000606@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <4F513223.5090006@the-wire.com> On 02/27/2012 12:25 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > I got interested in cantennas, is what this is all about. Basically > take a used can of some suitable size, with one end cut off, put a > 1/4wave antenna 1/2wave from the closed end, and you beam your RF > signal directionally out the other end. So you need to run cable from > the router to the 1/4wave antenna -- the stuff in the page you cited > seems just what I wanted. > > A purpose-built plastic cap to keep out weather would be the crowning > touch. What I have found is that there are a bunch of standard can > sizes that all don't quite fit each other. A juice can seems like it > would be better than mediocre at 2.4GHz. [ ... ] ???????! A 350g can of Planter's Peanuts has a resealing plastic lid that fits a Rougemont apple juice can perfectly! Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 20:59:42 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:59:42 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> <20120302164937.GC22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302191309.GD22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4F5134BE.5080501@ss.org> On 03/02/2012 02:55 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Today, if you are in the US, you can get this for $24.99, including > shipping: > > (Go to their sale page.) > They are pretty cute (I have one). MIPS-based wireless mini-router > with open source firmware. It includes the case and power supply but > a limited set of outputs. What do you know, Newegg now carries these! http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833315107 -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 2 21:13:56 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 16:13:56 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> <20120302164937.GC22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302191309.GD22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120302211356.GE22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 02:55:15PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > List price is US$149. I think HDMI-out is an added cost option. CPU > is better (twice the clock rate, newer ARM standard). RAM is much > better (1G). Don't know about video drivers. Yes HDMI is an add on, but yes the CPU is newer and much more ram, and sata connector as well as microSD and SD. $100 was a special offer. It also has a MALI video engine, which apparently will soon have an open source driver thanks to some awesome reverse engineering being done. > So many choices. Choices are good. > To me, the RaspberryPi is cheap enough that buying it is not much of a > decision. The i.MX53 QSB not so much. Oh certainly. But if you want to actually help with work on Debian armhf or other arm distribution, having something that can actually do a decent job as a build system is handy. > At the price of the i.MX53 QSB, I think that a Dreamplug would be > closer to my desires. > But > then I bought a tiny bare-bones AMD e-350 system for only $100 > recently and that is pretty nice. I believe the dreamplug is an ancient ARM design. ARMv5 as far as I recall. Nifty toy, but certainly not what I would consider useful. > Today, if you are in the US, you can get this for $24.99, including > shipping: > > (Go to their sale page.) > They are pretty cute (I have one). MIPS-based wireless mini-router > with open source firmware. It includes the case and power supply but > a limited set of outputs. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 3 03:12:27 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 22:12:27 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <20120302211356.GE22243-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> <20120302164937.GC22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302191309.GD22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302211356.GE22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4F518C1B.10306@gmail.com> On 12-03-02 16:13 , Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I believe the dreamplug is an ancient ARM design. ARMv5 as far as > I recall. ARM 9, actually, at 1.2GHz. Hopeless floating point performance, but I've had one doing sterling duty for the last 2+ years as a simple home server. The only drawback of these tiny machines is that they don't really have enough RAM to run a dev toolchain. My SheevaPlug has twice the RAM of a Raspberry Pi, and I usually have to rely on a swapfile (on a USB external HD; ssllooww) to compile anything. That's where your i.MX53 QSB has the edge. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 3 20:46:06 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 15:46:06 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <4F518C1B.10306-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> <20120302164937.GC22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302191309.GD22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302211356.GE22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F518C1B.10306@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F52830E.7040900@ss.org> On 03/02/2012 10:12 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 12-03-02 16:13 , Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> I believe the dreamplug is an ancient ARM design. ARMv5 as far as >> I recall. > > ARM 9, actually, at 1.2GHz. Hopeless floating point performance, but > I've had one doing sterling duty for the last 2+ years as a simple home > server. What we see here is a common source of confusion. Lennart is speaking of the instructions set version, while Stewart is speaking of the ARM Core Design version. Both are values are correct for the DreamPlug's Kirkwood SoC. Most modern ARM SoCs are ARM-11 designs, which use the ARMv7 instruction set. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 3 21:16:43 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 21:16:43 +0000 Subject: Epson Toner Cartridge Message-ID: I have an older Epson toner cartridge for anyone who can make use of it - model 0927. I can't remember the Epson printer model it came from. I'm assuming it's empty or nearly so.. Let me know if you are interested. It's free of course. John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 4 01:42:24 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 20:42:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <4F5134BE.5080501-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> <20120302164937.GC22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302191309.GD22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F5134BE.5080501@ss.org> Message-ID: | From: Scott Sullivan | On 03/02/2012 02:55 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Today, if you are in the US, you can get this for $24.99, including | > shipping: | > | > (Go to their sale page.) | > They are pretty cute (I have one). MIPS-based wireless mini-router | > with open source firmware. It includes the case and power supply but | > a limited set of outputs. | | What do you know, Newegg now carries these! | | http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833315107 Thanks. Warning: although I have one, I haven't yet used it. I showed it to Eben Upton (RaspberryPI founder) when he was at FSOSS last October. He took pictures. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 5 02:58:09 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 21:58:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: not impressed by Ubuntu bug fixing Message-ID: I have an AMD E-350 based little computer. It is a natural for driving a TV. The E-350 "Fusion" CPU includes a decent video controller. Unfortunately, AMD has not released the specs so open-source drivers cannot send sound over the HDMI out. So the proprietary AMD drivers would seem to be a good choice. So I chose Ubuntu -- it makes loading proprietary drivers very easy. Except in this case. (Notice that this is classed as a bug with code for the nvidia drivers.) This was reported in October and has still not been fixed! Apparently it is a trivial problem. Somehow related to Perhaps the E-350 chip will be a year old before it can be exploited on Ubuntu. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 5 15:31:22 2012 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 10:31:22 -0500 Subject: Network cable installers Message-ID: Hi everyone, Apologies if this is a bit off-topic, but I'm looking for any suggestions of network cable vendors / installers. Someone who can re-wire an office environment with cubicles, small data centre, etc..etc.. If you have any personal experience and recommendations for a particular company that works in the GTA, specifically Mississauga, please let me know (you can reply off-list too). Much appreciated. -Vic Vic Gedris - http://vic.gedris.org Toronto, Ontario, Canada - http://www.junctiontriangle.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 5 18:58:09 2012 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 13:58:09 -0500 Subject: Network cable installers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Phillip Peters. 416 995 9185 Small company, but they do awesome work. On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Vic Gedris wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Apologies if this is a bit off-topic, but I'm looking for any > suggestions of network cable vendors / installers. ?Someone who can > re-wire an office environment with cubicles, small data centre, > etc..etc.. > > If you have any personal experience and recommendations for a > particular company that works in the GTA, specifically Mississauga, > please let me know (you can reply off-list too). > > Much appreciated. > > -Vic > > Vic Gedris - http://vic.gedris.org > Toronto, Ontario, Canada - http://www.junctiontriangle.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 5 18:58:25 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 13:58:25 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <4F518C1B.10306-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1330638763.16091.YahooMailNeo@web113403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> <20120302164937.GC22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302191309.GD22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302211356.GE22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F518C1B.10306@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120305185825.GA14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 10:12:27PM -0500, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > ARM 9, actually, at 1.2GHz. Hopeless floating point performance, but > I've had one doing sterling duty for the last 2+ years as a simple home > server. ARMv5 means the instruction set version. Currently up to ARMv7 exists (I believe ARMv8 is 64bit stuff in progress). ARM11 is ARMv6 as far as I remember. ARM9 would be ARMv5 instructions. > The only drawback of these tiny machines is that they don't really have > enough RAM to run a dev toolchain. My SheevaPlug has twice the RAM of a > Raspberry Pi, and I usually have to rely on a swapfile (on a USB > external HD; ssllooww) to compile anything. That's where your i.MX53 QSB > has the edge. Yep, which is why I wanted one. Some years ago I was doing compiles on a 64MB 400MHz PXA255. That was pretty slow. ARMv5 instruction set as well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 5 19:21:22 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 14:21:22 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <4F52830E.7040900-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> <20120302164937.GC22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302191309.GD22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302211356.GE22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F518C1B.10306@gmail.com> <4F52830E.7040900@ss.org> Message-ID: <20120305192122.GB14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Mar 03, 2012 at 03:46:06PM -0500, Scott Sullivan wrote: > What we see here is a common source of confusion. > > Lennart is speaking of the instructions set version, while Stewart > is speaking of the ARM Core Design version. Both are values are > correct for the DreamPlug's Kirkwood SoC. > > Most modern ARM SoCs are ARM-11 designs, which use the ARMv7 > instruction set. Most modern ARM SoC are Cortex-A8 or A9. ARM11 is ARMv6 (the only ARMv6 design really it seems). ARMv7 is pretty similar to ARMv6 though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 5 19:32:24 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 14:32:24 -0500 Subject: CBC News and the Raspberry Pi In-Reply-To: <20120305192122.GB14855-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120302034411.GA3524@node1.opengeometry.net> <4F50DEC0.4030000@the-wire.com> <20120302164937.GC22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302191309.GD22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120302211356.GE22243@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F518C1B.10306@gmail.com> <4F52830E.7040900@ss.org> <20120305192122.GB14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4F5514C8.5000003@ss.org> On 03/05/2012 02:21 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Mar 03, 2012 at 03:46:06PM -0500, Scott Sullivan wrote: [...] >> Most modern ARM SoCs are ARM-11 designs, which use the ARMv7 >> instruction set. > > Most modern ARM SoC are Cortex-A8 or A9. ARM11 is ARMv6 (the only ARMv6 > design really it seems). ARMv7 is pretty similar to ARMv6 though. > Right, I had a feeling I was off somewhere in there. Thanks. As a side note, there as been some outside work of an ARMv5tel build of the RHEL-6 sources (Alpha Release Quality, No Docs yet.). Currently the only kernel is for the Kirkwood SoCs. http://ftp.redsleeve.org/pub/yum/os/ Having a handful of Kickwood based Devices, I'm going try and give this a test whirl on the weekend. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 5 20:19:25 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 12:19:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Presentation topic Message-ID: <1330978765.83814.YahooMailNeo@web113419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Myles/Colin, If there are interest, I would like to give technical overview of Appgen (www.appgen.com).? It's an old Unix ERP software. Too old really, but it's the only one, other than SAP and Oracle at the top, at least in Linux market.? My goal is to show the "looks and feels" of this particular ERP implementation, and hopefully, it may serve as a reference point for future ERP development and marketing. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 5 22:13:05 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 17:13:05 -0500 Subject: Network cable installers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gedris, > If you have any personal experience and recommendations for a > particular company that works in the GTA, specifically Mississauga, > please let me know (you can reply off-list too). Try this guy. I have worked with him and liked his work George Dietrich FX Communications Mobile: 416-509-7292 > > Much appreciated. > > -Vic > William > Vic Gedris - http://vic.gedris.org > Toronto, Ontario, Canada - http://www.junctiontriangle.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 03:00:53 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 22:00:53 -0500 Subject: Binning web advertisers and trackers Message-ID: The recent release of Mozilla's Collusion plug-in for Firefox has inspired me to go after web advertisers and trackers. I already use both AdBlock Plus and NoScript, and yet after a couple days of browsing Collusion is showing sites like imrworldwide, 2o7.net, quantserve, and scorecardresearch tracking my movement on the web. This is because there are several sites on which I have to enable JavaScript to get reasonable functionality - Slashdot comes to mind (and yes, they do use trackers). I think the ideal solution would be privoxy, but I looked at it recently and found both the initial configuration and the ongoing maintenance cost (particularly as a replacement for AdBlock) quite daunting. So I thought about dumping all the offending servers into /etc/hosts with pointers to a null host. I seem to recall a recent discussion on GTALUG (I couldn't find it) saying that that wasn't as elegant or as effective a solution as is possible. Which made me think: I always have an Apache server running, I could set it up to answer at 127.0.0.2 so any calls from advertiser scripts would get a 404 rather than waiting to time out. Would that be more effective? This would also mean that if I did something extreme like binning facebook.com, when I thought "why isn't that working?" and put "facebook.com" into my browser, it could come up with a default page on 127.0.0.2 that said "this site has been binned" which would help remind me of what the hell is going on. Any thoughts? Thanks. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 11:36:18 2012 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 06:36:18 -0500 Subject: server distros Message-ID: Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. Comments ? My goal is ease of upgrading. Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 12:57:37 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 07:57:37 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. > > Comments ? What you are asking is likely to provoke discussions with quasi-religious fervor... My personal preference would be for Debian, but that is just my take on things. Easy to upgrade, well supported , and very stable. Colin McGregor > My goal is ease of upgrading. > > Dave Cramer > VP Software Development > Visible Assets Inc. > www.visibleassets.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 13:08:41 2012 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 08:08:41 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120306130841.GA11307@watson-wilson.ca> Debian offers in place upgrades. With Centos you have to install fresh to go from 6 yo 7. Ubuntu has newer packages than Debian stable, does in place upgrades like Debian but, is often leading edge enough to trouble you with bugs. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 13:15:11 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 08:15:11 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120306131511.GA20300@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 06:36:18AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. > > Comments ? > > My goal is ease of upgrading. Answer: Any distro that you're already familiar with. Just enable what you want, and disable what you don't want. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 13:23:05 2012 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 08:23:05 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: >> Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. >> >> Comments ? > > What you are asking is likely to provoke discussions with > quasi-religious fervor... I'm aware of the above My personal preference would be for Debian, > but that is just my take on things. Easy to upgrade, well supported , > and very stable. > > Colin McGregor > >> My goal is ease of upgrading. >> >> Dave Cramer >> VP Software Development >> Visible Assets Inc. >> www.visibleassets.com >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 13:51:29 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 08:51:29 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120306135129.GB8651@amber> On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 06:36:18AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. For a server? OpenBSD. Seriously secure, lovely network stack, very well-maintained upgrades, in widespread use. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 14:52:49 2012 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 09:52:49 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F5624C1.5030608@gmail.com> Both make excellent cases as a server distro of choice. Number of production servers on both distros. Cannot choose between the 2. On 3/6/2012 6:36 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. > > Comments ? > > My goal is ease of upgrading. > > Dave Cramer > VP Software Development > Visible Assets Inc. > www.visibleassets.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 16:09:56 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:09:56 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. > > Comments ? > > My goal is ease of upgrading. Ubuntu gives you somewhat more of a chance of doing an in-place version-to-version upgrade to a new major version; it's not as good as Debian at that, but it does inherit *some* capability from Debian in that regard. But if you're more comfortable with CentOS, then you might be happier with "keep crucial data on filesystems that don't get reformatted when you re-install." -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 17:05:16 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 12:05:16 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120306170516.GC14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 06:36:18AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. > > Comments ? > > My goal is ease of upgrading. Then Debian is the obvious choice. Ease of upgrading is not Ubuntu's strength by any means, and not particularly Centos either (although it is somewhat better at it). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 17:13:02 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 12:13:02 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <20120306135129.GB8651@amber> References: <20120306135129.GB8651@amber> Message-ID: <20120306171302.GD14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 08:51:29AM -0500, Peter King wrote: > For a server? OpenBSD. Seriously secure, lovely network stack, very > well-maintained upgrades, in widespread use. Secure yes Nice network stack, yes Well maintained, well reasonably Widespread use, probably not that much anymore Of course I personally would add to that (and I have very much used it): Painful user space Painful package management Seriously outdated hardware support. Of course I do tend to expect perfection, and never accept "that's how we have always done it" as a reason to continue to do anything. Too bad Debian only has a freebsd and netbsd version, not openbsd, otherwise you could at least fix two of the three problems. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 17:25:27 2012 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 12:25:27 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <20120306170516.GC14855-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306170516.GC14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4F564887.1010704@the-wire.com> On 03/06/2012 12:05 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 06:36:18AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >> Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. >> >> Comments ? >> >> My goal is ease of upgrading. > Then Debian is the obvious choice. > > Ease of upgrading is not Ubuntu's strength by any means, and not > particularly Centos either (although it is somewhat better at it). I did a bugfix upgrade on a Ubuntu Server once, and it seemed easy. If VMWare hadn't been misconfigured it would have been seamless. As it was it made for a very long afternoon. Any warnings you can share briefly? Thanks, Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 17:35:53 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 12:35:53 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <4F564887.1010704-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306170516.GC14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F564887.1010704@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <20120306173553.GE14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 12:25:27PM -0500, Mel Wilson wrote: > I did a bugfix upgrade on a Ubuntu Server once, and it seemed easy. > If VMWare hadn't been misconfigured it would have been seamless. As > it was it made for a very long afternoon. > > Any warnings you can share briefly? I have seen what happens when you try upgrading one version to another of Ubuntu. It has issues more often than not it seems. My wife was using Ubuntu at UofT for her machine there because that's what it came with. It has had a lot of issues with upgrades over the years. One upgrade made X go away. She was unimpressed. I seem to recall she reinstalled from scratch to fix that. Another time an upgrade changed the network port arrangement, taking the machine of the network. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 19:11:29 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 14:11:29 -0500 Subject: Binning web advertisers and trackers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120306191129.GA14549@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 10:00:53PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote > The recent release of Mozilla's Collusion plug-in for Firefox has > inspired me to go after web advertisers and trackers. I already use > both AdBlock Plus and NoScript, and yet after a couple days of > browsing Collusion is showing sites like imrworldwide, 2o7.net, > quantserve, and scorecardresearch tracking my movement on the web. > This is because there are several sites on which I have to enable > JavaScript to get reasonable functionality - Slashdot comes to mind > (and yes, they do use trackers). Try the "Ghostery" plugin for Firefox https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ghostery/ -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 19:27:26 2012 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 14:27:26 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <20120306173553.GE14855-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306170516.GC14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F564887.1010704@the-wire.com> <20120306173553.GE14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Ok, so now my priority shifts towards virtualization technology. I see centos uses XEN which supports paravirtualization, whereas KVM does not. Comments ? Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 12:25:27PM -0500, Mel Wilson wrote: >> I did a bugfix upgrade on a Ubuntu Server once, and it seemed easy. >> If VMWare hadn't been misconfigured it would have been seamless. ?As >> it was it made for a very long afternoon. >> >> Any warnings you can share briefly? > > I have seen what happens when you try upgrading one version to another > of Ubuntu. ?It has issues more often than not it seems. > > My wife was using Ubuntu at UofT for her machine there because that's what > it came with. ?It has had a lot of issues with upgrades over the years. > > One upgrade made X go away. ?She was unimpressed. ?I seem to recall she > reinstalled from scratch to fix that. ?Another time an upgrade changed > the network port arrangement, taking the machine of the network. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 19:43:15 2012 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 14:43:15 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <20120306170516.GC14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F564887.1010704@the-wire.com> <20120306173553.GE14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120306194315.GA18745@watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 02:27:26PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >I see centos uses XEN which supports paravirtualization, whereas KVM >does not. Comments ? Does Centos6 support Xen out of the box? RH began to favour KVM over Xen in RHEL5. In KVM the virtio drivers are used for paravirtualization. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 20:22:23 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 15:22:23 -0500 Subject: Binning web advertisers and trackers In-Reply-To: <20120306191129.GA14549-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306191129.GA14549@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 6 March 2012 14:11, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 10:00:53PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote >> The recent release of Mozilla's Collusion plug-in for Firefox has >> inspired me to go after web advertisers and trackers. ?I already use >> both AdBlock Plus and NoScript, and yet after a couple days of >> browsing Collusion is showing sites like imrworldwide, 2o7.net, >> quantserve, and scorecardresearch tracking my movement on the web. >> This is because there are several sites on which I have to enable >> JavaScript to get reasonable functionality - Slashdot comes to mind >> (and yes, they do use trackers). > > ?Try the "Ghostery" plugin for Firefox > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ghostery/ I uninstalled Ghostery when they were bought out by a company that claims to be about consumer privacy but gets its money from companies that sell advertising. They appear to have been doing a reasonable job with Ghostery, but I have to admit to considerable pessimism about that continuing. So I'd prefer to find another solution. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 20:27:32 2012 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 15:27:32 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <20120306194315.GA18745-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306170516.GC14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F564887.1010704@the-wire.com> <20120306173553.GE14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120306194315.GA18745@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 02:27:26PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >> >> I see centos uses XEN which supports paravirtualization, whereas KVM >> does not. Comments ? > > > Does Centos6 support Xen out of the box? ?RH began to favour KVM over > Xen in RHEL5. ?In KVM the virtio drivers are used for > paravirtualization. This http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/Virtualization/Introduction suggests otherwise -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen.a.gordon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 20:32:58 2012 From: stephen.a.gordon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stephen Gordon) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 15:32:58 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <20120306194315.GA18745-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306170516.GC14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F564887.1010704@the-wire.com> <20120306173553.GE14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120306194315.GA18745@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 02:27:26PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >> >> I see centos uses XEN which supports paravirtualization, whereas KVM >> does not. Comments ? > > > Does Centos6 support Xen out of the box? ?RH began to favour KVM over > Xen in RHEL5. ?In KVM the virtio drivers are used for > paravirtualization. No, Centos would have dropped it after 5.4, as did RHEL. Steve -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 20:46:28 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 15:46:28 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <20120306170516.GC14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F564887.1010704@the-wire.com> <20120306173553.GE14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120306194315.GA18745@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4F5677A4.6070902@ss.org> On 03/06/2012 03:27 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Neil Watson wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 02:27:26PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >>> >>> I see centos uses XEN which supports paravirtualization, whereas KVM >>> does not. Comments ? >> >> >> Does Centos6 support Xen out of the box? RH began to favour KVM over >> Xen in RHEL5. In KVM the virtio drivers are used for >> paravirtualization. > > > This http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/Virtualization/Introduction > suggests otherwise That page hasn't been updated since 2010-12-02, so its too old to take into account CentOS 6 at all. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 20:59:16 2012 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 15:59:16 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <4F5677A4.6070902-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306170516.GC14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F564887.1010704@the-wire.com> <20120306173553.GE14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120306194315.GA18745@watson-wilson.ca> <4F5677A4.6070902@ss.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 03/06/2012 03:27 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: >> >> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Neil Watson >> ?wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 02:27:26PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I see centos uses XEN which supports paravirtualization, whereas KVM >>>> does not. Comments ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Does Centos6 support Xen out of the box? ?RH began to favour KVM over >>> Xen in RHEL5. ?In KVM the virtio drivers are used for >>> paravirtualization. >> >> >> >> This http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/Virtualization/Introduction >> suggests otherwise > > > That page hasn't been updated since 2010-12-02, so its too old to take into > account CentOS 6 at all. So is CentOS supporting XEN then ? > > -- > Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 21:47:55 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:47:55 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <20120306170516.GC14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F564887.1010704@the-wire.com> <20120306173553.GE14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120306214755.GF14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 02:27:26PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > Ok, so now my priority shifts towards virtualization technology. > > I see centos uses XEN which supports paravirtualization, whereas KVM > does not. Comments ? RHEL moved to KVM, so I would think Centos did too. I believe SuSE is the main XEN pusher left. KVM does support paravirtualization for networking and such as far as I can tell, or at least something very similar. The FAQ says KVM does paravirt for drivers but not CPU. CPU requires hardware that supports virtualization (VT-x for example). This should not be a problem on modern hardware. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 6 22:21:46 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:21:46 -0500 Subject: KVM vs Xen support. (Was: server distros) In-Reply-To: References: <20120306170516.GC14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F564887.1010704@the-wire.com> <20120306173553.GE14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120306194315.GA18745@watson-wilson.ca> <4F5677A4.6070902@ss.org> Message-ID: <4F568DFA.1010108@ss.org> On 03/06/2012 03:59 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Scott Sullivan wrote: [...] >>> >>> This http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/Virtualization/Introduction >>> suggests otherwise >> >> >> That page hasn't been updated since 2010-12-02, so its too old to take into >> account CentOS 6 at all. > > So is CentOS supporting XEN then ? CentOS's primary goal is to follow upstream, which is RedHat Enterprise Linux (PNAELV[1] for those who like the "He whom must not be named" approach). RHEL 6 is supporting KVM as their Visualization technology, ergo so is CentOS 6. This in part has to due with the Kernel version which was selected for RHEL 6. The Xen dev teams skipped over that branch of the kernel for support. This came to great annoyance of a colleague of mine who is heavily involved with the Cluster Suite for High Availability Virtual Machines [2]. Any significant support for Xen on CentOS 6 will not be coming from upstream. [1]: http://www.pnaelv.net/ [2]: https://alteeve.com/w/2-Node_Red_Hat_KVM_Cluster_Tutorial -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 7 21:14:18 2012 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 13:14:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Dave, If your goal is ease of upgrading then go Ubuntu or Debian; they are "upgradable" in place if you do a bit of preparation ?(I've done this for example):?http://rimuhosting.com/knowledgebase/linux/distros/dist-upgrade? RedHat / Centos are not upgradable AFAIK. This together with better package management is why I like Debian/Ubuntu a bit better over RedHat/Centos although it's not without its drawbacks (no init iptables script for Ubuntu, have to write my own). In any case main server distros are basically the same for me, just pick whichever you are most familiar with.? ? --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave Cramer > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 6:36:18 AM > Subject: [TLUG]: server distros > > Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. > > Comments ? > > My goal is ease of upgrading. > > Dave Cramer > VP Software Development > Visible Assets Inc. > www.visibleassets.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 7 21:24:51 2012 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 16:24:51 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo-Tm7EnexblBL5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120307212451.GA16809@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Mar 07, 2012 at 01:14:18PM -0800, Fernando Duran wrote: >Debian/Ubuntu a bit better over RedHat/Centos although it's not without >its drawbacks (no init iptables script for Ubuntu, have to write my >own). In any case main server distros are basically the same for me, >just pick whichever you are most familiar with.? Since I discovered Shorewall, iptables has never been an issue again. I can even distributed firewall rules to all nodes via Cfengine. IPV6 included. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 7 22:09:07 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 17:09:07 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo-Tm7EnexblBL5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> Fernando Duran wrote: > If your goal is ease of upgrading then go Ubuntu or Debian; they are "upgradable" in place if you do a bit of preparation (I've done this for example):http://rimuhosting.com/knowledgebase/linux/distros/dist-upgrade > I believe openSUSE can also be upgraded in place, if the Tumbleweed repostitory is used. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 7 22:39:00 2012 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 17:39:00 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <4F57DC83.8060505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 5:09 PM, James Knott wrote: > Fernando Duran wrote: > >> If your goal is ease of upgrading then go Ubuntu or Debian; they are >> "upgradable" in place if you do a bit of preparation (I've done this for >> example):http://rimuhosting.**com/knowledgebase/linux/** >> distros/dist-upgrade >> >> > I believe openSUSE can also be upgraded in place, if the Tumbleweed > repostitory is used. Tumbleweed is a rolling update distribution, so upgrading is ongoing. I've upgraded an openSUSE desktop in place with zypper and it worked, but it was less mature than Debian for sure. Debian's been doing it the longest by far, so it stands to reason that they'd be the best at it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 7 23:30:08 2012 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 18:30:08 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Andrej Marjan wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 5:09 PM, James Knott wrote: >> >> Fernando Duran wrote: >>> >>> If your goal is ease of upgrading then go Ubuntu or Debian; they are >>> "upgradable" in place if you do a bit of preparation ?(I've done this for >>> example):http://rimuhosting.com/knowledgebase/linux/distros/dist-upgrade >>> >> >> I believe openSUSE can also be upgraded in place, if the Tumbleweed >> repostitory is used. > > > Tumbleweed is a rolling update distribution, so upgrading is ongoing. > > I've upgraded an openSUSE desktop in place with zypper and it worked, but it > was less mature than Debian for sure. Debian's been doing it the longest by > far, so it stands to reason that they'd be the best at it. I installed debian today, was disappointed that kvm requires manual setup. ubuntu has an option when installing and sets everything up for you. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 7 23:42:05 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 18:42:05 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120307234205.GG14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 07, 2012 at 06:30:08PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > I installed debian today, was disappointed that kvm requires manual > setup. ubuntu has an option when installing and sets everything up for > you. What besides 'apt-get install kvm' do you need to do? What setup? kvm --options works for me. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 00:01:46 2012 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 19:01:46 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <20120307234205.GG14855-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> <20120307234205.GG14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Mar 07, 2012 at 06:30:08PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >> I installed debian today, was disappointed that kvm requires manual >> setup. ubuntu has an option when installing and sets everything up for >> you. > > What besides 'apt-get install kvm' do you need to do? ?What setup? > > kvm --options works for me. Setting up the bridge adapter for one. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 00:07:21 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 19:07:21 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> <20120307234205.GG14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120308000721.GH14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 07, 2012 at 07:01:46PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > Setting up the bridge adapter for one. Default kvm doesn't use one. Default is host nat interface. So if you happen to want bridging on some interface (how the distribution should know I have no idea), then you can set that up. I find that distributions that try to guess what I want tend to break things. If they ask, I can help with the right answer of course. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 00:08:17 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 19:08:17 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <20120308000721.GH14855-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> <20120307234205.GG14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120308000721.GH14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120308000817.GI14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 07, 2012 at 07:07:21PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Default kvm doesn't use one. > > Default is host nat interface. In fact personally I use vde_switch with kvm, to deal with multiple vlans. bridge by itself isn't enough. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 03:00:31 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 22:00:31 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> <20120307234205.GG14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4F5820CF.8030802@utoronto.ca> On 12-03-07 07:01 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 07, 2012 at 06:30:08PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >>> I installed debian today, was disappointed that kvm requires manual >>> setup. ubuntu has an option when installing and sets everything up for >>> you. >> >> What besides 'apt-get install kvm' do you need to do? What setup? >> >> kvm --options works for me. > > Setting up the bridge adapter for one. IIRC, Xen with bridged networking in most distros is the same (by default, bridging is not configured). NAT seems the easiest for most virtualization tools to preconfigure since it doesn't require messing around with physical/virtual ethernet devices. Those are really hard to guess. Moreover, bridged networking requires an ethernet device work in promiscuous mode. So the sane thing to do is not enable bridged networking on install for any virtualization tool until the admin/user in question explicitly needs it. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 16:38:43 2012 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 11:38:43 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 07:57, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: >> Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. >> >> Comments ? > > What you are asking is likely to provoke discussions with > quasi-religious fervor... That is the perfect answer for this question. Also, unless you want the complexity (as in "complicated") of enterprise without the enterprise benefits (people doing the dirty job for you), don't go for CentOS. I'd do anything debian-based these days, and I like Ubuntu server - it is surprisingly good. (someone is going to read this, save, point at me and laugh. I've been know to make fun at debian users in the past. I know, people change, distros change) And here I am feeding the troll... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 18:36:36 2012 From: alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 18:36:36 +0000 Subject: server distros Message-ID: <1131778529-1331231799-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-739971898-@b17.c8.bise6.blackberry> I know I'm top posting, but it's a little difficult not to do so from my BlackBerry. My preference is for Red Hat Enteprise Linux, insofar as enterprise distros are concerned. I find the package management simple, administration tasks are easy, and support is always good. Then again, given the price for self supported editions versus the Red Hat supported versions, it may be outside your price range. I've also had good experience with SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, although it, too has various price points for varying levels of support. If you're looking for a free distro to run, I have to agree with the recommendations for Debian based systems (e.g. Ubuntu) as a server distro. I like the tasksel option available in Ubuntu Server, although similar behaviour is available in other distros, if my knowledge is correct. Ultimately, it all depends on your expertise with the platform, and your willingness to pay for support. ------Original Message------ From: Renata Rocha Sender: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org ReplyTo: tlug at ss.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: server distros Sent: Mar 8, 2012 11:38 AM On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 07:57, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: >> Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. >> >> Comments ? > > What you are asking is likely to provoke discussions with > quasi-religious fervor... That is the perfect answer for this question. Also, unless you want the complexity (as in "complicated") of enterprise without the enterprise benefits (people doing the dirty job for you), don't go for CentOS. I'd do anything debian-based these days, and I like Ubuntu server - it is surprisingly good. (someone is going to read this, save, point at me and laugh. I've been know to make fun at debian users in the past. I know, people change, distros change) And here I am feeding the troll... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 19:18:05 2012 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 14:18:05 -0500 Subject: MySQL book recommendation Message-ID: I need a MySQL Enterprise administration book recommendation, targeted to Linux admins. Preferably one with a kindle version. Thanks! Renata Rocha http://renata.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 19:42:07 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 14:42:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <20120306131511.GA20300-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306131511.GA20300@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: | From: William Park | On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 06:36:18AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: | > Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. | > | > Comments ? | > | > My goal is ease of upgrading. | | Answer: | Any distro that you're already familiar with. This is a very useful answer. All distros have strengths and weaknesses. You are often best off not being surprised. I don't do anything stressful on a server, so my opinion isn't well tested. I like CentOS. - very stable - well supported (by Red Hat) - facilities are familiar to me: much like the Red Hat products that I've been using for over 15 years. (But not a rollercoaster like Fedora.) - although upgrades (major version changes) are not easy, they are very infrequent and support lasts for a long long time (quite often longer than the hardware you using) I also use Ubuntu LTS. I've not been as impressed. Support isn't as long, nor is it as good. LTS feels like an afterthought. When it comes down to it, Red Hat has way more staff working on their product. Why, then, do I use Ubuntu LTS? (1) for MythTV. Mythbuntu seems to be the best canned MythTV support. (2) for stable desktops (i.e. for people that don't want to do an upgrade every six months or a year). Ubuntu comes with most of the candy without having to work at configuring it (eg. MP/3 players). Right now, if you install CentOS 6, you can expect a long future for it. Ubuntu 10.04 LTS will be superceded in a month (by 12.04 LTS). I don't actually like the way Ubuntu (or Fedora) desktops are heading and 12.04 LTS will likely get you into the middle of that swamp. I've not used Debian directly very often. I expect that it is very good for server deployments. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 20:55:56 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 15:55:56 -0500 Subject: Above All Surplus Resurfaces Message-ID: <9a6f8c4c5cb4a4659fa6f012419154af.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> I thought these guys had thrown in the towel, but they haven't, they've relocated a bit west of the original location, now on the south side of Bloor. (They were originally a block or two west of Bathurst and Bloor, on the north side of Bloor). I haven't been in the new store yet. (It was raining and I was on my bike ;). -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 22:13:32 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 14:13:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Telnet question -- how to go back to telnet after ^] Message-ID: <1331244812.3149.YahooMailNeo@web113413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> When you send ^] (default escape char) in Telnet, it goes into command mode.? Normally, I type "quit" to quit.? But, if I want to go back to telnet mode, what command do I type? -- William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 22:17:30 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 17:17:30 -0500 Subject: MySQL book recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Renata, On 8 March 2012 14:18, Renata Rocha wrote: > I need a MySQL Enterprise administration book recommendation, targeted > to Linux admins. Preferably one with a kindle version. > I would recommend this book, I found it really enjoyable read and the authors know their way around mysql very well High Performance MySQL, 2nd Edition Optimization, Backups, Replication, and More Publisher: O'Reilly Media Released: June 2008 Pages: 712 http://www.amazon.com/High-Performance-MySQL-Optimization-Replication/dp/0596101716 Not sure the Kindle thing, I still read my books from a dead tree :) > Thanks! > > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 22:31:47 2012 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 17:31:47 -0500 Subject: MySQL book recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8 March 2012 17:17, William Muriithi wrote: > Not sure the Kindle thing, I still read my books from a dead tree :) Be careful that the branch you sit on doesn't break ;-) -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 23:06:23 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 18:06:23 -0500 Subject: Telnet question -- how to go back to telnet after ^] In-Reply-To: <1331244812.3149.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOH6X00i2u5GFvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1331244812.3149.YahooMailNeo@web113413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F593B6F.8090508@utoronto.ca> On 12-03-08 05:13 PM, William Park wrote: > When you send ^] (default escape char) in Telnet, it goes into > command mode. Normally, I type "quit" to quit. But, if I want > to go back to telnet mode, what command do I type? Hit return once. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 8 23:29:06 2012 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 18:29:06 -0500 Subject: Above All Surplus Resurfaces In-Reply-To: <9a6f8c4c5cb4a4659fa6f012419154af.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <9a6f8c4c5cb4a4659fa6f012419154af.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4F5940C2.2050403@the-wire.com> On 03/08/2012 03:55 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I thought these guys had thrown in the towel, but they haven't, they've > relocated a bit west of the original location, now on the south side of > Bloor. > (They were originally a block or two west of Bathurst and Bloor, on the > north side of Bloor). > > I haven't been in the new store yet. (It was raining and I was on my bike ;). > Smaller, but same stuff, and same great service. Seems harder to spot, somehow. I had to make two passes to find it yesterday. If you get to Honest Ed's, or to Christie, you've gone too far. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 00:02:35 2012 From: el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 19:02:35 -0500 Subject: Above All Surplus Resurfaces In-Reply-To: <4F5940C2.2050403-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <9a6f8c4c5cb4a4659fa6f012419154af.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4F5940C2.2050403@the-wire.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > On 03/08/2012 03:55 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >> I thought these guys had thrown in the towel, but they haven't, they've >> relocated a bit west of the original location, now on the south side of >> Bloor. >> (They were originally a block or two west of Bathurst and Bloor, on the >> north side of Bloor). >> >> I haven't been in the new store yet. (It was raining and I was on my bike >> ;). >> > Smaller, but same stuff, and same great service. ?Seems harder to spot, > somehow. ?I had to make two passes to find it yesterday. ?If you get to > Honest Ed's, or to Christie, you've gone too far. > I kind of ran past on my way to noodles recently, and was happy to see him there. The place does look wee tho - does he still have a decent assortment of, let's say, non-computer-specific components etc.? I remember picking up a pair of healthy power toroids there cheep! Also definitely check out the used book store nearby and on the same side of Bloor. So few of them left... Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 00:17:25 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 19:17:25 -0500 Subject: Above All Surplus Resurfaces In-Reply-To: References: <9a6f8c4c5cb4a4659fa6f012419154af.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4F5940C2.2050403@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <1fba95e68fea1013a816ba215552b6ba.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > > I kind of ran past on my way to noodles recently, and was happy to see > him there. The place does look wee tho - does he still have a decent > assortment of, let's say, non-computer-specific components etc.? I > remember picking up a pair of healthy power toroids there cheep! > > Also definitely check out the used book store nearby and on the same > side of Bloor. So few of them left... > There are three used book stores on Roncesvalles, east side, south of the Dundas Y junction. One of them, 'She Said Boom', has a very good collection of science books, as does the SSB branch on College. What a wierd name. I must ask them about that. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 11:14:47 2012 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 06:14:47 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <20120306131511.GA20300@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:42 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: William Park > > | On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 06:36:18AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > | > Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. > | > > | > Comments ? > | > > | > My goal is ease of upgrading. > | > | Answer: > | ? ? Any distro that you're already familiar with. > > This is a very useful answer. > > All distros have strengths and weaknesses. ?You are often best off not > being surprised. > > I don't do anything stressful on a server, so my opinion isn't well > tested. > > I like CentOS. > > - very stable > > - well supported (by Red Hat) > > - facilities are familiar to me: much like the Red Hat products that I've > ?been using for over 15 years. ?(But not a rollercoaster like > ?Fedora.) > > - although upgrades (major version changes) are not easy, they are > ?very infrequent and support lasts for a long long time (quite often > ?longer than the hardware you using) > > I also use Ubuntu LTS. ?I've not been as impressed. ?Support isn't as > long, nor is it as good. ?LTS feels like an afterthought. ?When it > comes down to it, Red Hat has way more staff working on their product. > > Why, then, do I use Ubuntu LTS? > > (1) for MythTV. ?Mythbuntu seems to be the best canned MythTV support. > > (2) for stable desktops (i.e. for people that don't want to do an > ? ?upgrade every six months or a year). ?Ubuntu comes with most of > ? ?the candy without having to work at configuring it (eg. MP/3 players). > > Right now, if you install CentOS 6, you can expect a long future for > it. ?Ubuntu 10.04 LTS will be superceded in a month (by 12.04 LTS). ?I > don't actually like the way Ubuntu (or Fedora) desktops are heading > and 12.04 LTS will likely get you into the middle of that swamp. > > I've not used Debian directly very often. ?I expect that it is very > good for server deployments. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists I have been leaning towards ubuntu, however what happened to inittab ? Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 14:21:48 2012 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 06:21:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <20120306131511.GA20300@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1331302908.35163.YahooMailNeo@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > I have been leaning towards ubuntu, however what happened to inittab ?? ? Replaced by upstart?http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ (I'm a top-poster btw, makes more sense to me for short replies not to re-read a wall of text) --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave Cramer > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 6:14:47 AM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: server distros > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:42 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier > wrote: >> | From: William Park >> >> | On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 06:36:18AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >> | > Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. >> | > >> | > Comments ? >> | > >> | > My goal is ease of upgrading. >> | >> | Answer: >> | ? ? Any distro that you're already familiar with. >> >> This is a very useful answer. >> >> All distros have strengths and weaknesses. ?You are often best off not >> being surprised. >> >> I don't do anything stressful on a server, so my opinion isn't well >> tested. >> >> I like CentOS. >> >> - very stable >> >> - well supported (by Red Hat) >> >> - facilities are familiar to me: much like the Red Hat products that > I've >> ?been using for over 15 years. ?(But not a rollercoaster like >> ?Fedora.) >> >> - although upgrades (major version changes) are not easy, they are >> ?very infrequent and support lasts for a long long time (quite often >> ?longer than the hardware you using) >> >> I also use Ubuntu LTS. ?I've not been as impressed. ?Support isn't > as >> long, nor is it as good. ?LTS feels like an afterthought. ?When it >> comes down to it, Red Hat has way more staff working on their product. >> >> Why, then, do I use Ubuntu LTS? >> >> (1) for MythTV. ?Mythbuntu seems to be the best canned MythTV support. >> >> (2) for stable desktops (i.e. for people that don't want to do an >> ? ?upgrade every six months or a year). ?Ubuntu comes with most of >> ? ?the candy without having to work at configuring it (eg. MP/3 players). >> >> Right now, if you install CentOS 6, you can expect a long future for >> it. ?Ubuntu 10.04 LTS will be superceded in a month (by 12.04 LTS). ?I >> don't actually like the way Ubuntu (or Fedora) desktops are heading >> and 12.04 LTS will likely get you into the middle of that swamp. >> >> I've not used Debian directly very often. ?I expect that it is very >> good for server deployments. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > I have been leaning towards ubuntu, however what happened to inittab ? > > Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 14:36:58 2012 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 09:36:58 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <1331302908.35163.YahooMailNeo-hghbPWfArVb5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306131511.GA20300@node1.opengeometry.net> <1331302908.35163.YahooMailNeo@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Fernando Duran wrote: >> I have been leaning towards ubuntu, however what happened to inittab ? > > > Replaced by upstart?http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ > > (I'm a top-poster btw, makes more sense to me for short replies not to re-read a wall of text) > Yes, I found that after I posted this. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 14:50:28 2012 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 09:50:28 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <1331302908.35163.YahooMailNeo-hghbPWfArVb5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306131511.GA20300@node1.opengeometry.net> <1331302908.35163.YahooMailNeo@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 9 March 2012 09:21, Fernando Duran wrote: > (I'm a top-poster btw, makes more sense to me for short replies not to re-read a wall of text) So strip down the "wall of text" and just quote what you're responding to (like I just did). -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 15:26:15 2012 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 07:26:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <20120306131511.GA20300@node1.opengeometry.net> <1331302908.35163.YahooMailNeo@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1331306775.75082.YahooMailNeo@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Allen > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 9:50:28 AM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: server distros > > On 9 March 2012 09:21, Fernando Duran wrote: >> (I'm a top-poster btw, makes more sense to me for short replies not to > re-read a wall of text) > > So strip down the "wall of text" and just quote what you're > responding > to (like I just did). that's what I did :-) ? --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com > > -- > Scott > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 16:25:33 2012 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 11:25:33 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <20120306131511.GA20300@node1.opengeometry.net> <1331302908.35163.YahooMailNeo@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F5A2EFD.8020106@dinamis.com> On 03/09/2012 09:50 AM, Scott Allen wrote: > On 9 March 2012 09:21, Fernando Duran wrote: >> (I'm a top-poster btw, makes more sense to me for short replies not to re-read a wall of text) > > So strip down the "wall of text" and just quote what you're responding > to (like I just did). Top-posting or bottom-posting is very much a cultural thing. Non-geeks don't seem to understand interspersed commenting or responses at the bottom because they overwhelmingly use email clients that default to top-posting. Email clients that start the quoted text with "----- Original Message -----" and then show the From, To, Cc:, Date, and Subject lines before they show you the body of the response make it especially difficult to do anything but top-post. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 17:28:14 2012 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 12:28:14 -0500 Subject: Teksavvy cable modems Message-ID: Hello All, I have Teksavvy cable and I have a few questions. Right now the cable modem is connected directly to a dedicated ethernet port on my firewall. My firewall connects to the internal network with a second dedicated ethernet port. Yesterday I setup a dedicated VLAN and plugged both the cable modem and my firewall into it. For some rather odd reason, the external interface of the firewall does not get an IP Address from DHCP. The requests are sent out but no responses come back. I also see tons of arp requests from the cable modem. Any ideas why I am not getting an IP Address? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 17:33:37 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 12:33:37 -0500 Subject: Teksavvy cable modems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F5A3EF1.2080105@ss.org> On 03/09/2012 12:28 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Yesterday I setup a dedicated VLAN and plugged both the cable modem > and my firewall into it. Can you tell use what kind of network hardware you using to setup the Vlan and how it's configured? -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 17:43:40 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 12:43:40 -0500 Subject: Ever came across a case where cmod 777 was a valid solution Message-ID: Afternoon, Over time, I have came across cases where someone has "fixed" a problem or suggested changing file permission to 777 and have always ended up ranting about it. That got me thinking today, could there be a solution that would genuinely need read, write and execute permission for user, group and others? I sincerely can not think of any and wonder if any of us here have come across such a case. Please educate me. William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 17:43:50 2012 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 09:43:50 -0800 Subject: Teksavvy cable modems Message-ID: <-6549588396850847968@unknownmsgid> I am using a netgear gs108e. VLAN1 is my internal network. VLAN2 is my external network. I tested the vlans and they are properly configured Sent from my Windows Phone From: Scott Sullivan Sent: 09/03/2012 12:33 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Teksavvy cable modems On 03/09/2012 12:28 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Yesterday I setup a dedicated VLAN and plugged both the cable modem > and my firewall into it. Can you tell use what kind of network hardware you using to setup the Vlan and how it's configured? -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 17:49:49 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 12:49:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Teksavvy cable modems In-Reply-To: <4F5A3EF1.2080105-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4F5A3EF1.2080105@ss.org> Message-ID: | From: Scott Sullivan | Can you tell use what kind of network hardware you using to setup the Vlan and | how it's configured? Yeah. The first question I'd ask is: are packets as seen by either device tagged? VLAN tags might confuse or change the bhaviour of the firewall or the Rogers equipment. I guess the zeroth question might be: which VLAN standard is being used. I assume 802.1q Is the switch adding other crud like QOS? Any other packet munging? (I'm just starting to learn about VLAN's. I just bought a Netgear GS108e. I don't completely know what it's capable of since the manuals seem to assume you already know what they should be telling you. I know what I want to do but the manuals don't say whether it is possible and Netgear's support forums for it require you to own one to read or post!) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 17:50:46 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 12:50:46 -0500 Subject: Ever came across a case where cmod 777 was a valid solution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F5A42F6.5040604@utoronto.ca> On 12-03-09 12:43 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Afternoon, > > Over time, I have came across cases where someone has "fixed" a > problem or suggested changing file permission to 777 and have always > ended up ranting about it. That got me thinking today, could there be > a solution that would genuinely need read, write and execute > permission for user, group and others? I sincerely can not think of > any and wonder if any of us here have come across such a case. Take a look at /tmp, /var/tmp, /run, /var/run, /var/lock and others. Note the sticky bit is set on those directories, which allows global access but prevents anyone but a file owner from deleting other user' files. But yes, in general, 777 is a brute force approach to permissions where a better solution likely exists e.g. figure out the uid/gid of a user or daemon and alter permissions accordingly, and or make sure said user or daemon is in the proper groups. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ldb-WHg6oj5YxnY at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 18:34:41 2012 From: ldb-WHg6oj5YxnY at public.gmane.org (Linda) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 13:34:41 -0500 Subject: server distros Message-ID: <0ssvmXGbrxg5.pvts4mGL@barred.owltree.ca> Z -original message- Subject: Re: [TLUG]: server distros From: Fernando Duran Date: 03/09/2012 09:22 > I have been leaning towards ubuntu, however what happened to inittab ? Replaced by upstart http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ (I'm a top-poster btw, makes more sense to me for short replies not to re-read a wall of text) --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave Cramer > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 6:14:47 AM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: server distros > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:42 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier > wrote: >> | From: William Park >> >> | On Tue, Mar 06, 2012 at 06:36:18AM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >> | > Looking currently at centos, or ubuntu. >> | > >> | > Comments ? >> | > >> | > My goal is ease of upgrading. >> | >> | Answer: >> | Any distro that you're already familiar with. >> >> This is a very useful answer. >> >> All distros have strengths and weaknesses. You are often best off not >> being surprised. >> >> I don't do anything stressful on a server, so my opinion isn't well >> tested. >> >> I like CentOS. >> >> - very stable >> >> - well supported (by Red Hat) >> >> - facilities are familiar to me: much like the Red Hat products that > I've >> been using for over 15 years. (But not a rollercoaster like >> Fedora.) >> >> - although upgrades (major version changes) are not easy, they are >> very infrequent and support lasts for a long long time (quite often >> longer than the hardware you using) >> >> I also use Ubuntu LTS. I've not been as impressed. Support isn't > as >> long, nor is it as good. LTS feels like an afterthought. When it >> comes down to it, Red Hat has way more staff working on their product. >> >> Why, then, do I use Ubuntu LTS? >> >> (1) for MythTV. Mythbuntu seems to be the best canned MythTV support. >> >> (2) for stable desktops (i.e. for people that don't want to do an >> upgrade every six months or a year). Ubuntu comes with most of >> the candy without having to work at configuring it (eg. MP/3 players). >> >> Right now, if you install CentOS 6, you can expect a long future for >> it. Ubuntu 10.04 LTS will be superceded in a month (by 12.04 LTS). I >> don't actually like the way Ubuntu (or Fedora) desktops are heading >> and 12.04 LTS will likely get you into the middle of that swamp. >> >> I've not used Debian directly very often. I expect that it is very >> good for server deployments. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > I have been leaning towards ubuntu, however what happened to inittab ? > > Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 19:12:52 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 14:12:52 -0500 Subject: Teksavvy cable modems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120309191252.GJ14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 12:28:14PM -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > I have Teksavvy cable and I have a few questions. > > Right now the cable modem is connected directly to a dedicated > ethernet port on my firewall. My firewall connects to the internal > network with a second dedicated ethernet port. > > Yesterday I setup a dedicated VLAN and plugged both the cable modem > and my firewall into it. For some rather odd reason, the external > interface of the firewall does not get an IP Address from DHCP. The > requests are sent out but no responses come back. I also see tons of > arp requests from the cable modem. > > Any ideas why I am not getting an IP Address? We need a diagram of the wiring to understand this. What should work: +--------------------------------------------+ | switch | | vlan1 +---vlan2---+ | | | | | | | | | | P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 | +----|----|-----------------|---|---|---|----+ | | | | | | Cable -+ +---Router--------+ | | | | | | Clients This works if all vlan's are set to 'untagged'. You could use a shared port for the router with tagged vlan1 and vlan2 traffic, and then use vlan interfaces in linux for getting the traffic from each. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 19:14:03 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 14:14:03 -0500 Subject: Ever came across a case where cmod 777 was a valid solution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120309191403.GK14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 12:43:40PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > Afternoon, > > Over time, I have came across cases where someone has "fixed" a > problem or suggested changing file permission to 777 and have always > ended up ranting about it. That got me thinking today, could there be > a solution that would genuinely need read, write and execute > permission for user, group and others? I sincerely can not think of > any and wonder if any of us here have come across such a case. > > Please educate me. Possibly for something like /dev/null And as someone else said, if the sticky bit is set as well, then OK. Otherwise it is always solving the problem in the wrong way. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 19:24:37 2012 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 14:24:37 -0500 Subject: Teksavvy cable modems In-Reply-To: <20120309191252.GJ14855-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120309191252.GJ14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Thats pretty much my exact configuration.One additional note, I am using 801.q VLANs. If you are having issues getting the GS108E to work ping me offline and I will show you my config. I do have VLAN trunking enabled. I tested the VLANs without the router and they appear to be properly configured. I guess the fundamental questions here are 1. If I plug my Cable modem and firewall into a hub or switch, will they work just as if i connected them "back to back". i.e. I am issued a non RFC 1918 address and I am "on" the internet. 2. If I plug my cable modem onto a network segment with more than one system that is configured with DHCP how many IP Addresses will Teksavvy issue to me? Thanks all for the help so far. On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 12:28:14PM -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> I have Teksavvy cable and I have a few questions. >> >> Right now the cable modem is connected directly to a dedicated >> ethernet port on my firewall. My firewall connects to the internal >> network with a second dedicated ethernet port. >> >> Yesterday I setup a dedicated VLAN and plugged both the cable modem >> and my firewall into it. For some rather odd reason, the external >> interface of the firewall does not get an IP Address from DHCP. The >> requests are sent out but no responses come back. I also see tons of >> arp requests from the cable modem. >> >> Any ideas why I am not getting an IP Address? > > We need a diagram of the wiring to understand this. > > What should work: > > ?+--------------------------------------------+ > ?| ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? switch ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | > ?| ? ? vlan1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? +---vlan2---+ ? ?| > ?| ? ? | ? | ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | ? | ? | ? | ? ?| > ?| ? ?P1 ? P2 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?P3 ?P4 ?P5 ?P6 ? | > ?+----|----|-----------------|---|---|---|----+ > ? ? ? | ? ?| ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | ? | ? | ? | > Cable -+ ? ?+---Router--------+ ? | ? | ? | > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| ? | ? | > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Clients > > This works if all vlan's are set to 'untagged'. > > You could use a shared port for the router with tagged vlan1 and vlan2 > traffic, and then use vlan interfaces in linux for getting the traffic > from each. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 19:34:45 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 14:34:45 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <4F5A2EFD.8020106-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306131511.GA20300@node1.opengeometry.net> <1331302908.35163.YahooMailNeo@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F5A2EFD.8020106@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4F5A5B55.7050608@ve3syb.ca> On 12-03-09 11:25 AM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Top-posting or bottom-posting is very much a cultural thing. Non-geeks don't > seem to understand interspersed commenting or responses at the bottom > because they overwhelmingly use email clients that default to top-posting. In addition to the top/bottom posting issue are the geeks and non-geeks that reply to a message and don't edit out the parts that aren't relevant to the comment(s) they are adding. It is not uncommon to see a message with around a hundred lines in it and the additional text is a one liner saying, in essence, "I agree". -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 20:19:52 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 15:19:52 -0500 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <4F5A5B55.7050608-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306131511.GA20300@node1.opengeometry.net> <1331302908.35163.YahooMailNeo@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F5A2EFD.8020106@dinamis.com> <4F5A5B55.7050608@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4F5A65E8.4020404@ss.org> On 03/09/2012 02:34 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > [...] It is not uncommon to see a > message with around a hundred lines in it and the additional text is a > one liner saying, in essence, "I agree". > +1 -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 21:00:45 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 16:00:45 -0500 Subject: Ever came across a case where cmod 777 was a valid solution In-Reply-To: <20120309191403.GK14855-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120309191403.GK14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 9 March 2012 14:14, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 12:43:40PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: >> Afternoon, >> >> Over time, I have came across cases where someone has "fixed" a >> problem or suggested changing file permission to 777 and have always >> ended up ranting about it. ?That got me thinking today, could there be >> a solution that would genuinely need read, write and execute >> permission for user, group and others? ?I sincerely can not think of >> any and wonder if any of us here have come across such a case. >> >> Please educate me. > > Possibly for something like /dev/null > > And as someone else said, if the sticky bit is set as well, then OK. > Otherwise it is always solving the problem in the wrong way. Many years ago a more experienced sysadmin referred to 666 file permissions as "permissions of the beast." It stuck with me and acted as a vivid reminder that if I thought about solving something that way I was doing it wrong. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 22:33:49 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:33:49 -0500 Subject: Teksavvy cable modems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F5A854D.7040806@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Hello All, > I have Teksavvy cable and I have a few questions. > > Right now the cable modem is connected directly to a dedicated > ethernet port on my firewall. My firewall connects to the internal > network with a second dedicated ethernet port. > > Yesterday I setup a dedicated VLAN and plugged both the cable modem > and my firewall into it. For some rather odd reason, the external > interface of the firewall does not get an IP Address from DHCP. The > requests are sent out but no responses come back. I also see tons of > arp requests from the cable modem. > > Any ideas why I am not getting an IP Address? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Are you setting up a VLAN on the modem site of the firewall? There shouldn't be any need for one there. You normally use a VLAN on the local network to keep different types of service separate. For example, I have set up networks where VoIP is on a separate VLAN than the regular network traffice or where public WiFi access does cannot connect to the local LAN. Also, VLANs are typically on different subnets. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 22:40:01 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:40:01 -0500 Subject: Teksavvy cable modems In-Reply-To: <-6549588396850847968@unknownmsgid> References: <-6549588396850847968@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4F5A86C1.1030305@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > VLAN2 is my external network. I tested the vlans and they are properly > configured With VLANs, VLAN tagging is used on Ethernet frames and any device that you want to communicate with has to be able to handle VLAN tags. So, unless the modem interface is set for no VLAN, it won't see the traffic intended for it. If you had a managed switch, you could assign a switch port to any VLAN and the modem wouldn't know the difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLAN_Tagging -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 22:41:29 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:41:29 -0500 Subject: Teksavvy cable modems In-Reply-To: <20120309191252.GJ14855-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120309191252.GJ14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4F5A8719.7080402@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > What should work: > > +--------------------------------------------+ > | switch | > | vlan1 +---vlan2---+ | > | | | | | | | | > | P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 | > +----|----|-----------------|---|---|---|----+ > | | | | | | > Cable -+ +---Router--------+ | | | > | | | > Clients > > That will not work, unless the modem understands VLAN tags and is configured to use VLAN 1. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 9 23:13:54 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 18:13:54 -0500 Subject: Teksavvy cable modems In-Reply-To: <4F5A8719.7080402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120309191252.GJ14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F5A8719.7080402@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120309231354.GL14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 05:41:29PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >What should work: > > > > +--------------------------------------------+ > > | switch | > > | vlan1 +---vlan2---+ | > > | | | | | | | | > > | P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 | > > +----|----|-----------------|---|---|---|----+ > > | | | | | | > >Cable -+ +---Router--------+ | | | > > | | | > > Clients > > > > > That will not work, unless the modem understands VLAN tags and is > configured to use VLAN 1. I did say 'ports configured for untagged traffic'. So the traffic outside the switch does not carry tags. The vlan is purely used to issolate ports from each other inside the switch. So I am right. :) This is actually how many home routers work. It is not unusualy to see: CPU Ethernet port | (trunk) | switch==chip | | | | | WAN -+ | | | | P1 P2 P3 P4 The CPU uses tagged traffic on the trunk to the switch chip with vlan1 and vlan2, and vlan1 is the "WAN" port, while vlan2 is P1 through P4. All traffic outside the box is untagged. It means a CPU with only one port can by using a switch chip provide issolated interfaces for cheap. Some boxes do have two actual ports on the CPU and hence don't connect the WAN port through the switch chip. My favorite DIR-825 for example. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 10 03:54:39 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:54:39 -0500 Subject: Ever came across a case where cmod 777 was a valid solution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F5AD07F.5040800@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > Afternoon, > > Over time, I have came across cases where someone has "fixed" a > problem or suggested changing file permission to 777 and have always > ended up ranting about it. That got me thinking today, could there be > a solution that would genuinely need read, write and execute > permission for user, group and others? I sincerely can not think of > any and wonder if any of us here have come across such a case. > > Please educate me. > > Symbolic links often have 777, but they would follow the permissions of the file they link to. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 10 20:24:25 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 15:24:25 -0500 Subject: Teksavvy cable modems In-Reply-To: <4F5A3EF1.2080105-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4F5A3EF1.2080105@ss.org> Message-ID: <4F5BB879.5040002@rogers.com> Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 03/09/2012 12:28 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> >> Yesterday I setup a dedicated VLAN and plugged both the cable modem >> and my firewall into it. > > Can you tell use what kind of network hardware you using to setup the > Vlan and how it's configured? > Wassa matter? Your crystal ball on the fritz? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 10 20:31:11 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 15:31:11 -0500 Subject: Teksavvy cable modems In-Reply-To: References: <20120309191252.GJ14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4F5BBA0F.9030009@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Thats pretty much my exact configuration.One additional note, I am > using 801.q VLANs. If you are having issues getting the GS108E to work > ping me offline and I will show you my config. I do have VLAN trunking > enabled. > > I tested the VLANs without the router and they appear to be properly > configured. > > I guess the fundamental questions here are > 1. If I plug my Cable modem and firewall into a hub or switch, will > they work just as if i connected them "back to back". i.e. I am issued > a non RFC 1918 address and I am "on" the internet. > 2. If I plug my cable modem onto a network segment with more than one > system that is configured with DHCP how many IP Addresses will > Teksavvy issue to me? The fundemental question is how is the port the modem is connected to configured? If a "trunk" port, then it will passs VLAN tags, which may confuse the modem. If an "edge" or "access" port, then it's assigned to a specific VLAN and will not pass the tag to the modem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 11 06:30:53 2012 From: mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org (Molly Tournquist) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 01:30:53 -0500 Subject: Above All Surplus Resurfaces Message-ID: <20120311063054.166410@gmx.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org > Sent: 03/08/12 07:17 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Above All Surplus Resurfaces > > > > > I kind of ran past on my way to noodles recently, and was happy to see > > him there. The place does look wee tho - does he still have a decent > > assortment of, let's say, non-computer-specific components etc.? I > > remember picking up a pair of healthy power toroids there cheep! > > > > Also definitely check out the used book store nearby and on the same > > side of Bloor. So few of them left... > > > There are three used book stores on Roncesvalles, east side, south of the > Dundas Y junction. One of them, 'She Said Boom', has a very good > collection of science books, as does the SSB branch on College. > > What a wierd name. I must ask them about that. However, the closest used bookstore is Seekers Books, which, ironically enough, focuses strongly on esoteric material. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 11 09:41:11 2012 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 05:41:11 -0400 Subject: OpenStreetMap Developer Weekend Message-ID: OpenStreetMap has a tradition of awesome weekend developer events, called Hack Weekends. Many of the improvements to OpenStreetMap, large and small, saw first light at previous Hack Weekends, including editors, API improvements, adding internationalization to the web site, and many more. If you are an OSM developer, want to be an OSM developer, or just want to know more about OSM, we have something for you this weekend. Read on. All Hack Weekends prior to 2012 have been held in Europe, but things are changing[1]. The first Canadian OSM Hack Weekend is being held in Toronto, this week. Join us Friday through Sunday, 16 - 18 March 2012 for social and technical events involving the international OSM community. Introductory event An Introduction to OpenStreetMap presentation, and extended Q&A expert panel will be held Friday afternoon at Ryerson University[2]. You should attend this if you want to learn more about OpenStreetMap as a user, F/LOSS advocate, or as a developer. What's all the fuss? Why does the UN think OSM is so cool? Why have GeoCaching.com, Foursquare.com, Apple and many others all moved to OSM, recently? How do I get involved in OpenStreetMap and why would I? The introductory presentation and Q&A is Friday afternoon, 2pm - 4pm at Ryerson University[2] Social event You should attend the social event if you want to know more about OpenStreetMap and the people involved in it. The goal of the social event is for the developers to get to know each other. Developers from three countries are already registered. Now you can get to know some of the developers too. The social event is hosted by members of the Toronto OpenStreetMap community. Join us Friday night from 7pm - 9pm [3]. These social meetings happen every month so keep an eye on the calendar. Technical event You should attend the technical event if you are already committing code to one or more of the tools in the OSM stack. You should attend if you are user of the OSM stack, and have an idea of what you want to improve, and how to make that improvement. The main goal of the hack is to put developers in a room to improve OSM code. Saturday and Sunday will see collaborative and individual projects advancing at breakneck speeds. Register to attend the Hack Weekend on the OSM wiki. [4] Thanks to the good folks at The Ryerson University Department of Geography, Master of Spatial Analysis (MSA) program, and the Student Association of Geographic Analysis for providing the awesome venue where our developers will meet. [1] The first North American Hack Weekend was held in Washington DC, in February. [2] 380 Victoria Street, room POD-348, Map http://osm.org/go/ZX6Bt0sGI--?m [3] http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Toronto/ [4] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Toronto_Hack_Weekend_March_2012 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 12 12:45:11 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 08:45:11 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 14 Mar 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Unix Unanimous Webmaster Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 12:01 AM Subject: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 14 Mar 2012 To: u-u-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at 6:45 pm on Wednesday 14 March 2012, in room BA 2179 in the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. George Street, on the University of Toronto campus. Unix Unanimous is an informal gathering of people interested in Unix and related topics. There are no fees or membership requirements, and the meeting is open to all. Participants typically include Unix professionals, students, and hobbyists. This message will be repeated on the Monday before the meeting. If there are any items for the agenda, email u-u-owner-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org before then. The meeting is always held on the second Wednesday of each month. Special Announcements: A mailing list has been set up for this announcement. If you wish to receive notification via email, go to the web page https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u/ in order to subscribe yourself. A map of the area can be found at http://unixunanimous.org where this message is repeated, and will always contain the correct location and time of the next meeting. _______________________________________________ u-u mailing list u-u-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 12 14:11:11 2012 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 10:11:11 -0400 Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? Message-ID: This is a quote from an article about this Pierre Poutine business: "When he went back and analyzed the data on that server, he realized that the person who?d uploaded the fake calls had used a phony IP address. But when that user signed off, Meier told me, he left behind a tell-tale ?cookie?, which left a trail of what you might call digital cookie crumbs, that led, in turn, to the real IP address." I swear I had read in discussions on here before that it was impossible to 'fake' an IP address. You could hide behind someone elses, ie. use a zombie or proxy or something, but in the end your IP is your IP, right? -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 12 14:59:14 2012 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 10:59:14 -0400 Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F5E0F42.1090608@gmail.com> On 12/03/2012 10:11 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > This is a quote from an article about this Pierre Poutine business: > > "When he went back and analyzed the data on that server, he realized > that the person who?d uploaded the fake calls had used a phony IP > address. But when that user signed off, Meier told me, he left behind > a tell-tale ?cookie?, which left a trail of what you might call > digital cookie crumbs, that led, in turn, to the real IP address." > > I swear I had read in discussions on here before that it was > impossible to 'fake' an IP address. You could hide behind someone > elses, ie. use a zombie or proxy or something, but in the end your IP > is your IP, right? The articles in the papers are for non-technical audiences. They were probably talking about the IP address of his cash-acquired cell phone. It sounds like whatever he did, he used an unclean workstation for the crime and it leaked a cookie from a previous visit. The cookie could be connected to a previous session in the logs, revealing the IP address of that previous session. You can fake an IP address, but it's useless in most transport-layer protocols. It's essentially impossible in a TCP handshake, so web browsing and stuff is impossible. But other transport layer stuff, doesn't do a 3-way. You can fake an IP in UDP, ICMP (and maybe others), if you 1. have an ISP which isn't filtering on that stuff and 2. don't need a response packet. There are lots of other gotchas and caveats, so for normal traffic it's true, you can't forge an IP address. But if you're poisoning a DNS server, or lobbing in a broadcast ping, although you need to guess the transaction ID, you don't need a reply packet... so forging an IP is useful in some circumstances. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 12 15:05:20 2012 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 11:05:20 -0400 Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <028999E2-0BEA-4921-8551-0A741B862359@mylesbraithwaite.com> On 2012-03-12, at 10:11 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I swear I had read in discussions on here before that it was > impossible to 'fake' an IP address. You could hide behind someone > elses, ie. use a zombie or proxy or something, but in the end your IP > is your IP, right? The article seems to be saying he used a system like Tor (which would 'fake' your IP address) for the attack but forgot to clear his cookies when they revisited the website. It sounds like they were more of a script kiddy than a master criminal. --- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org-- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 12 18:51:08 2012 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:51:08 -0400 Subject: Above All Surplus Resurfaces In-Reply-To: <20120311063054.166410-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20120311063054.166410@gmx.com> Message-ID: <4F5E459C.5020302@the-wire.com> On 03/11/2012 01:30 AM, Molly Tournquist wrote: >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org >> Sent: 03/08/12 07:17 PM >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Above All Surplus Resurfaces >> >>> I kind of ran past on my way to noodles recently, and was happy to see >>> him there. The place does look wee tho - does he still have a decent >>> assortment of, let's say, non-computer-specific components etc.? I >>> remember picking up a pair of healthy power toroids there cheep! >>> >>> Also definitely check out the used book store nearby and on the same >>> side of Bloor. So few of them left... >>> >> There are three used book stores on Roncesvalles, east side, south of the >> Dundas Y junction. One of them, 'She Said Boom', has a very good >> collection of science books, as does the SSB branch on College. >> >> What a wierd name. I must ask them about that. > However, the closest used bookstore is Seekers Books, which, ironically enough, focuses strongly on esoteric material. Not quite. I think he meant Bob Miller Bookstore which is quite near.. maybe on the Christie side. Has the look of having moved there lately. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 12 19:03:18 2012 From: el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:03:18 -0400 Subject: Above All Surplus Resurfaces In-Reply-To: <4F5E459C.5020302-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20120311063054.166410@gmx.com> <4F5E459C.5020302@the-wire.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > On 03/11/2012 01:30 AM, Molly Tournquist wrote: >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org >>> Sent: 03/08/12 07:17 PM >>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Above All Surplus Resurfaces >>> >>>> I kind of ran past on my way to noodles recently, and was happy to see >>>> him there. The place does look wee tho - does he still have a decent >>>> assortment of, let's say, non-computer-specific components etc.? I >>>> remember picking up a pair of healthy power toroids there cheep! >>>> >>>> Also definitely check out the used book store nearby and on the same >>>> side of Bloor. So few of them left... >>>> >>> There are three used book stores on Roncesvalles, east side, south of the >>> Dundas Y junction. One of them, 'She Said Boom', has a very good >>> collection of science books, as does the SSB branch on College. >>> >>> What a wierd name. I must ask them about that. >> >> However, the closest used bookstore is Seekers Books, which, ironically >> enough, focuses strongly on esoteric material. > > > Not quite. ?I think he meant Bob Miller Bookstore which is quite near.. > maybe on the Christie side. ?Has the look of having moved there lately. > That must be the one. Good, densely packed little book store, run by a traditional Torontonian. Yes - I think he did move there not long ago. Within a stone's throw of good noodles, bulgoki, electronic surplus, and even some fine tacos. I do miss downtown Toronto... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 12 21:43:31 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:43:31 -0400 Subject: Raspberry Pi in the Toronto Sun. Message-ID: Here is the Toronto Sun's take on the Raspberry Pi (nicely done) : http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/12/huge-demand-for-credit-card-sized-computer Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 00:36:55 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:36:55 -0400 Subject: EFF hiring a webdev Message-ID: <4F5E96A7.3090807@alteeve.ca> Saw this on the hackerspaces list, thought I'd repost it here. https://www.eff.org/opportunities/jobs/web-developer -- Alteeve's Niche! Madison Kelly 647-501-5200 Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 01:46:46 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:46:46 -0400 Subject: EFF hiring a webdev In-Reply-To: <4F5E96A7.3090807-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4F5E96A7.3090807@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Digimer wrote: > Saw this on the hackerspaces list, thought I'd repost it here. > > https://www.eff.org/opportunities/jobs/web-developer I'm not certain the salary is enough to cover anything beyond rent in San Francisco; that's not a cheap city to live in. Hope it's a promising opportunity for someone. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 03:03:15 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 23:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Raspberry Pi in the Toronto Sun. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor | Here is the Toronto Sun's take on the Raspberry Pi (nicely done) : | http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/12/huge-demand-for-credit-card-sized-computer Not the Sun's take, Reuters': Told from a British perspective: the two distributors are British. But I went to the Sun site and looked around. Boy does that paper have an ugly attitude. Only its readers' comments are uglier. - Jann Arden got kicked off a train at Oshawa, part way through a trip, tweets that she was let off "in the middle of nowhere", and gets really ragged for that comment. I'd have called it "the middle of nowhere" too in the context of leaving Toronto for an Ottawa concert and being dropped in Oshawa. - The Liberal candidate in Guelph used robocalls to discredit the conservative candidate. This is equated to the calls that misdirected voters to the wrong poling stations. Hardly -- they failed to point out that the Liberal candidate's calls were factual: about the Conservative candidate's position on abortion. From another source (not the Sun), I've heard that the Liberal candidate's calls did violate the Election in that they did not clearly say that they were authorized by the Liberal candidate. A pathetic article - A very contemptuous article about "a legal application to remove Toronto Mayor Rob Ford from office". So contemptuous that it was hard to tell what the issue is. These were just the first three "Top Stories" with headlines that interested me. Interestingly, the RaspberryPI article was much more pleasant than the others. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 06:07:00 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 08:07:00 +0200 Subject: Raspberry Pi in the Toronto Sun. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 5:03 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > These were just the first three "Top Stories" with headlines that > interested me. > > Interestingly, the RaspberryPI article was much more pleasant than the > others. > > > Probably because the origianl article was written by Reuters and not by a Sun's correspondent. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 12:00:08 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 08:00:08 -0400 Subject: Raspberry Pi in the Toronto Sun. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F5F36C8.2080506@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > But I went to the Sun site and looked around. Boy does that paper > have an ugly attitude. Only its readers' comments are uglier. You can't accuse the Sun of being a "newspaper". However, it is good for lining the bottom of a bird cage. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 13:33:55 2012 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:33:55 +1000 (EST) Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2012, Thomas Milne wrote: > I swear I had read in discussions on here before that it was > impossible to 'fake' an IP address. You could hide behind someone > elses, ie. use a zombie or proxy or something, but in the end your IP > is your IP, right? Hi Thomas. It is possible. It's called IP spoofing. In general it is difficult to do successfully. One way TCP connections protect against spoofing is to make their connection sequence numbers difficult to predict. Many years ago the method used to generate TCP sequence numbers in the BSD network code was found to be much more easily predicted that previously thought. Anyone using BSD network code was potentially vulnerable. That turned out to be pretty much everyone and over a period of weeks/months every susceptible OS had its networking code patched to fix the problem. One problem with IP spoofing is that the responding system will respond to the system being spoofed, not the one doing the spoofing (after all, that is who it thinks it is talking to). So the spoofing system must either: (a) not need response packets to do its evil work (b) intercept the responses to do its evil work (c) guess the responses and respond blindly, to do its evil work Spoofing can be generally defeated by appropriately strong cryptographic signing of data (at L3, L4 or even higher). Spoofing is a big topic as the chances of success and impact vary a lot depending on what the baddie is doing and what they are trying to achieve. There is a lot of info available online on this interesting topic. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Director, Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Free & Open Source: The revolution that quietly changed the world "One ought not to believe anything, save that which can be proven by nature and the force of reason" -- Frederick II (26 December 1194 ? 13 December 1250) From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 14:40:10 2012 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:40:10 -0400 Subject: Raspberry Pi in the Toronto Sun. In-Reply-To: <4F5F36C8.2080506-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F5F36C8.2080506@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4F5F5C4A.5050405@the-wire.com> On 03/13/2012 08:00 AM, James Knott wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> But I went to the Sun site and looked around. Boy does that paper >> have an ugly attitude. Only its readers' comments are uglier. > > You can't accuse the Sun of being a "newspaper". However, it is good > for lining the bottom of a bird cage. ;-) For real? Or is this the real-life origin of the phrase "Angry Birds"? I think you want to be careful what you expose them to. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 16:10:24 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 12:10:24 -0400 Subject: Raspberry Pi in the Toronto Sun. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F5F7170.4030107@ve3syb.ca> On 12-03-12 05:43 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Here is the Toronto Sun's take on the Raspberry Pi (nicely done) : > http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/12/huge-demand-for-credit-card-sized-computer Not bad. Interesting to read that the interest has spread to the US but, apparently, not to Canada. Seems typical of some journalism to say US and mean US and Canada. Unless there really hasn't been any interest shown from Canada. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 16:15:59 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 12:15:59 -0400 Subject: Raspberry Pi in the Toronto Sun. In-Reply-To: <4F5F7170.4030107-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4F5F7170.4030107@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4F5F72BF.9070302@ss.org> On 03/13/2012 12:10 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 12-03-12 05:43 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Here is the Toronto Sun's take on the Raspberry Pi (nicely done) : >> http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/12/huge-demand-for-credit-card-sized-computer >> > > Not bad. Interesting to read that the interest has spread to the US but, > apparently, not to Canada. Seems typical of some journalism to say US > and mean US and Canada. Unless there really hasn't been any interest > shown from Canada. > There is indeed a fair amount of interest in Toronto at the very minimum. The Fedora Remix for Raspberry Pi release event ended up being a rather high profile press event with some 50+ people. It was standing room only and personal got to chat with some high-level educational interests, including a representative of the TDSB board. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 17:32:35 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:32:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: rambling notes on a full / Message-ID: / filled up on one of my Mythbuntu servers. This isn't good because it's hard to know what damage this caused: any logging writes likely failed. The original symptom that I noted was that mythweb could not find any of the recordings I'd made (note: those recordings are not on /) (it could find the metadata -- it knew what was recorded). The symptom was hard to relate to the disease. This is actually common for full filesystems: odd symptoms show up that don't directly suggest the, uh, root of the problem. I made some room on / and ignored the as-yet-undetected consequences. I figured that the reason the disk filled up is that I never removed old kernels so eventually there were enough to fill up /. / is allocated 15G. After deleting all but two kernels and rebooting, I have 5.8G free. So those kernels are fat! Synaptic says: on disk size download size name 76.2 MB 10 MB linux-headers 128 MB 31 MB linux-image Each package is amazingly more compact than the installed size. Each kernel version costs about 200 MB. I removed 5. I should have recovered about 1 GB. So how come I got 5.8 GB back? Something doesn't add up. To investigate, I removed a kernel package on another Mythbuntu server (same release and architecture). According to df, I saved 221 MB. So synaptic's estimate was off by less than 10%. That leaves a mystery: why, then, was / full? Oh well. Perhaps the reboot fixed everything. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 17:57:13 2012 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:57:13 -0400 Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? In-Reply-To: <4F5E0F42.1090608-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4F5E0F42.1090608@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: > On 12/03/2012 10:11 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: >> This is a quote from an article about this Pierre Poutine business: >> >> "When he went back and analyzed the data on that server, he realized [...] > true, you can't forge an IP address. ?But if you're poisoning a DNS > server, or lobbing in a broadcast ping, although you need to guess the > transaction ID, you don't need a reply packet... so forging an IP is > useful in some circumstances. > Yeah, I am no expert but even in these cases you need to be the man in the middle or at least in the same network segment. Most modern switches will automatically detect and block ARP poisoning but there are a lot which don't . Anyway as you say it is highly unlikely as the perpetrator must be (a) on the same segment/mask, (b) the network infrastructure be old/cheap/hub , (c) OR the perpetrator has control over a router/gateway where the poisoning is most effective. Even for sniffing you need to be quite proficient and basically useless outside a specific network segment. -- Alejandro Imass > > > -Mike > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 17:57:35 2012 From: alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:57:35 +0000 Subject: rambling notes on a full / Message-ID: <980813362-1331661459-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-862071632-@b17.c8.bise6.blackberry> The first culprit I'd examine would have been the /tmp directory, if it was off /. I've seen that fill up very quickly, especially with applications that cause core dumps to be saved. ------Original Message------ From: D. Hugh Redelmeier Sender: owner-tlug at ss.org To: Toronto Linux Users Group ReplyTo: tlug at ss.org Subject: [TLUG]: rambling notes on a full / Sent: Mar 13, 2012 1:32 PM / filled up on one of my Mythbuntu servers. This isn't good because it's hard to know what damage this caused: any logging writes likely failed. The original symptom that I noted was that mythweb could not find any of the recordings I'd made (note: those recordings are not on /) (it could find the metadata -- it knew what was recorded). The symptom was hard to relate to the disease. This is actually common for full filesystems: odd symptoms show up that don't directly suggest the, uh, root of the problem. I made some room on / and ignored the as-yet-undetected consequences. I figured that the reason the disk filled up is that I never removed old kernels so eventually there were enough to fill up /. / is allocated 15G. After deleting all but two kernels and rebooting, I have 5.8G free. So those kernels are fat! Synaptic says: on disk size download size name 76.2 MB 10 MB linux-headers 128 MB 31 MB linux-image Each package is amazingly more compact than the installed size. Each kernel version costs about 200 MB. I removed 5. I should have recovered about 1 GB. So how come I got 5.8 GB back? Something doesn't add up. To investigate, I removed a kernel package on another Mythbuntu server (same release and architecture). According to df, I saved 221 MB. So synaptic's estimate was off by less than 10%. That leaves a mystery: why, then, was / full? Oh well. Perhaps the reboot fixed everything. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 18:09:37 2012 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:09:37 -0400 Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 12 Mar 2012, Thomas Milne wrote: > >> I swear I had read in discussions on here before that it was >> impossible to 'fake' an IP address. You could hide behind someone [...] > Spoofing can be generally defeated by appropriately strong cryptographic > signing of data (at L3, L4 or even higher). > Not at all. 99.999999% of users are so stupid they will type or click YES _every single time_. I conducted a private study in a high-profile govt / police scenario. And ALL the users clicked YES to my spoofed Ethercap HTTPS certs. The certs look identical and users assume it's some network glitch. They are so used to proxy configuration errors and bad internal IT service that they just assume it's a technical problem. All in all we demonstrated by taking control of the main Linux-based firewall, a single point of all trafiic, we could posses everyone's passwords with something as simple as Ethercap. I mean folks, this was using amateur demo-style ethercap stuff. > Spoofing is a big topic as the chances of success and impact vary a lot > depending on what the baddie is doing and what they are trying to achieve. Yes. The real threat is not from outside crackers, it's 90% from the inside, usually working in concert with the outside. I honestly don't know of any real successful spoofing at a public IP level, except for those cases that the crackers have taken possession of a router and you happen to be in their path. As Robert is pointing out, if the connections are SSL you will also need to spoof the certs and have someone stupid assert to continue. In my experience 99% of attacks are inside jobs, weak passwords and weak Web-based application software. Most everything else is very rare. I mean the threat is out there, but it's not as easy as many people think. The most important factor is the cost/benefit factor, and that to me is the key thing to look for. -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 18:25:46 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:25:46 -0400 Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? In-Reply-To: References: <4F5E0F42.1090608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F5F912A.2000007@utoronto.ca> On 12-03-13 01:57 PM, Alejandro Imass wrote: > Yeah, I am no expert but even in these cases you need to be the man in > the middle or at least in the same network segment. Most modern > switches will automatically detect and block ARP poisoning but there > are a lot which don't . Anyway as you say it is highly unlikely as the > perpetrator must be (a) on the same segment/mask, (b) the network > infrastructure be old/cheap/hub , (c) OR the perpetrator has control > over a router/gateway where the poisoning is most effective. Even for > sniffing you need to be quite proficient and basically useless outside > a specific network segment. metasploit was hijacked via ARP poisoning a few years ago: http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2008/Jun/13 If it can happen to Mr. Moore, it can happen to anyone. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 18:35:29 2012 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:35:29 -0400 Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? In-Reply-To: <4F5F912A.2000007-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F5E0F42.1090608@gmail.com> <4F5F912A.2000007@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 12-03-13 01:57 PM, Alejandro Imass wrote: [...] > > metasploit was hijacked via ARP poisoning a few years ago: > http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2008/Jun/13 > > If it can happen to Mr. Moore, it can happen to anyone. > Yep, by taking possession of a router. It's always a cost/benefit equation. A high-ranking cracker will do this to obtain something in return, usually in the form of money or recognition. The possibilities of this type of attack happening to the majority of servers out there is rare. Most attacks are either by brute force and can be mitigated by something as simple and effective like fail2ban. The rest are mostly exploits on poorly designed PHP software. Very rarely you will see sophisticated attacks on your common server, unless you happen to be in the path of a bigger fish. Following the money is usually a good guide to your level of exposure. Most servers today are being hijacked to mass mail, or perpetrate other attacks. -- Alejandro Imass > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 20:06:41 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:06:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Alejandro Imass | Ethercap Ettercap? | those cases that the crackers have taken possession of a router and My picture is that there are two really technically weak links: - DNS (until DNSsec is deployed and used) - the global routing system. Just advertise a low cost route to the ASN and you'll hijack traffic. Instant man-in-the-middle. Not easy to keep secret and requires significant hardware. This has been (is being) done by countries. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 13 21:33:51 2012 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:33:51 -0400 Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? In-Reply-To: References: <4F5E0F42.1090608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F5FBD3F.6040005@gmail.com> On 13/03/2012 1:57 PM, Alejandro Imass wrote: > On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: >> On 12/03/2012 10:11 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: >>> This is a quote from an article about this Pierre Poutine business: >>> >>> "When he went back and analyzed the data on that server, he realized > [...] >> true, you can't forge an IP address. But if you're poisoning a DNS >> server, or lobbing in a broadcast ping, although you need to guess the >> transaction ID, you don't need a reply packet... so forging an IP is >> useful in some circumstances. >> > > Yeah, I am no expert but even in these cases you need to be the man in > the middle or at least in the same network segment. Most modern > switches will automatically detect and block ARP poisoning but there > are a lot which don't . Anyway as you say it is highly unlikely as the > perpetrator must be (a) on the same segment/mask, (b) the network > infrastructure be old/cheap/hub , (c) OR the perpetrator has control > over a router/gateway where the poisoning is most effective. Even for > sniffing you need to be quite proficient and basically useless outside > a specific network segment. > Strangely, you don't need to be in the same network segment for this or a man in the middle. ARP spoofing, yes, but forging an IP, no. Many ISPs don't filter on packets originating from their networks, and once you get enough hops of non-filtering (say 1 or 2) , then filtering is too costly and complex. e.g., if Rogers receives a packet on an interface where normally traffic from Algeria arrives, and the source IP is an Amercian address, the router is not going to know or care, it will forward it. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 02:18:20 2012 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:18:20 -0400 Subject: Raspberry Pi in the Toronto Sun. In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4F5FC7AC.24274.86D115A@sciguy.vex.net> I don't think anyone has ever accused the Sun as being anything above an advertising flyer with news in it. To say the Sun has an "ugly attitude" is like saying the Pope is Catholic. You just expect it, and make a point to buy yourself either the Star or the Globe, end of story. This is why they've gone out of business multiple times and have stuck to their same failed "ugly attitude" business model, thinking it's going to sell. I just don't take them seriously, and I don't think most people do either. Paul King On 12 Mar 2012 at 23:03, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Colin McGregor > > | Here is the Toronto Sun's take on the Raspberry Pi (nicely done) : > | http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/12/huge-demand-for-credit-card-sized-computer > > Not the Sun's take, Reuters': > > Told from a British perspective: the two distributors are British. > > But I went to the Sun site and looked around. Boy does that paper > have an ugly attitude. Only its readers' comments are uglier. > > - Jann Arden got kicked off a train at Oshawa, part way through a > trip, tweets that she was let off "in the middle of nowhere", and > gets really ragged for that comment. I'd have called it "the middle > of nowhere" too in the context of leaving Toronto for an Ottawa > concert and being dropped in Oshawa. > > > - The Liberal candidate in Guelph used robocalls to discredit the > conservative candidate. This is equated to the calls that > misdirected voters to the wrong poling stations. Hardly -- they > failed to point out that the Liberal candidate's calls were factual: > about the Conservative candidate's position on abortion. > > From another source (not the Sun), I've heard that the Liberal > candidate's calls did violate the Election in that they did not > clearly say that they were authorized by the Liberal candidate. > > A pathetic article > > > - A very contemptuous article about "a legal application to remove > Toronto Mayor Rob Ford from office". So contemptuous that it was > hard to tell what the issue is. > > > > These were just the first three "Top Stories" with headlines that > interested me. > > Interestingly, the RaspberryPI article was much more pleasant than the > others. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 02:50:12 2012 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:50:12 -0400 Subject: Raspberry Pi in the Toronto Sun. In-Reply-To: <4F5FC7AC.24274.86D115A-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: , <4F5FC7AC.24274.86D115A@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <4F600764.5000909@gmail.com> On 03/13/2012 10:18 PM, sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org wrote: > I don't think anyone has ever accused the Sun as being anything above > an advertising flyer with news in it. To say the Sun has an "ugly > attitude" is like saying the Pope is Catholic. You just expect it, and > make a point to buy yourself either the Star or the Globe, end of > story. This is why they've gone out of business multiple times and have > stuck to their same failed "ugly attitude" business model, thinking > it's going to sell. I just don't take them seriously, and I don't think > most people do either. Which is made very odd by the fact that Peter Worthington is wiser then all the other Canadian Journalist put together x 10, but, yes it does have a lot of Stereo and Tv adds :) It is an odd home for Pete (even more odd, he co-founded the thing!) -tl > Paul King > > On 12 Mar 2012 at 23:03, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> | From: Colin McGregor >> >> | Here is the Toronto Sun's take on the Raspberry Pi (nicely done) : >> | http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/12/huge-demand-for-credit-card-sized-computer >> >> Not the Sun's take, Reuters': >> >> Told from a British perspective: the two distributors are British. >> >> But I went to the Sun site and looked around. Boy does that paper >> have an ugly attitude. Only its readers' comments are uglier. >> >> - Jann Arden got kicked off a train at Oshawa, part way through a >> trip, tweets that she was let off "in the middle of nowhere", and >> gets really ragged for that comment. I'd have called it "the middle >> of nowhere" too in the context of leaving Toronto for an Ottawa >> concert and being dropped in Oshawa. >> >> >> - The Liberal candidate in Guelph used robocalls to discredit the >> conservative candidate. This is equated to the calls that >> misdirected voters to the wrong poling stations. Hardly -- they >> failed to point out that the Liberal candidate's calls were factual: >> about the Conservative candidate's position on abortion. >> >> From another source (not the Sun), I've heard that the Liberal >> candidate's calls did violate the Election in that they did not >> clearly say that they were authorized by the Liberal candidate. >> >> A pathetic article >> >> >> - A very contemptuous article about "a legal application to remove >> Toronto Mayor Rob Ford from office". So contemptuous that it was >> hard to tell what the issue is. >> >> >> >> These were just the first three "Top Stories" with headlines that >> interested me. >> >> Interestingly, the RaspberryPI article was much more pleasant than the >> others. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 04:08:05 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 00:08:05 -0400 Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120314040805.GA3373@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:33:55PM +1000, Robert Brockway wrote > Hi Thomas. It is possible. It's called IP spoofing. In general it is > difficult to do successfully. One way TCP connections protect against > spoofing is to make their connection sequence numbers difficult to > predict. > > Many years ago the method used to generate TCP sequence numbers in the BSD > network code was found to be much more easily predicted that previously > thought. Anyone using BSD network code was potentially vulnerable. That > turned out to be pretty much everyone and over a period of weeks/months > every susceptible OS had its networking code patched to fix the problem. > > One problem with IP spoofing is that the responding system will respond to > the system being spoofed, not the one doing the spoofing (after all, that > is who it thinks it is talking to). So the spoofing system must either: > > (a) not need response packets to do its evil work > (b) intercept the responses to do its evil work > (c) guess the responses and respond blindly, to do its evil work > > Spoofing can be generally defeated by appropriately strong cryptographic > signing of data (at L3, L4 or even higher). > > Spoofing is a big topic as the chances of success and impact vary a lot > depending on what the baddie is doing and what they are trying to achieve. > > There is a lot of info available online on this interesting topic. On an anti-spam newsgroup, years ago, there was a spammer strategy explained. Back before the days of botnets, spammers had to use their own connections, which would get taken down after a couple of days. It required... * a broadband ISP account that does not do egress filtering. You do not want to lose this account * a throwaway dialup account (they were cheap back then), preferably billed to a compromised credit card * a spamming program with sophisticated IP stack management The way it worked was... * connect the broadband account, e.g. IP address 10.0.0.1 (mock example) * connect the dialup account, e.g. IP address 192.168.0.1 (mock example) * use the broadband account to do the spamming, but fake outgoing IP address to match the dialup * the dialup account receives the 3-way-handshakes, and they can be acknowledged properly The destination mailservers would see a "dialup account" spewing spam at 500 or 600 kbits/sec. It would often begin Friday evening. When the dialup ISP received reports of spam, and the employees came in on Monday, they would remove the offending dialup account sometime during Monday. The dialup account was burned, but the valuable broadband account was never implicated. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 07:22:21 2012 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:22:21 +1000 (EST) Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2012, Alejandro Imass wrote: >> Spoofing can be generally defeated by appropriately strong cryptographic >> signing of data (at L3, L4 or even higher). >> > > Not at all. 99.999999% of users are so stupid they will type or click > YES _every single time_. I conducted a private study in a high-profile I said nothing about users :) The cryptographic signing I'm talking about is handled entirely transparently to the user (eg IPSec, or SSH host key auth or some application level auth that never gives the user an option to override). The key here is whether the client and server trust each other, not what the user may or may not trust. > govt / police scenario. And ALL the users clicked YES to my spoofed > Ethercap HTTPS certs. The certs look identical and users assume it's > some network glitch. They are so used to proxy configuration errors > and bad internal IT service that they just assume it's a technical > problem. As a separate topic, yes this is a huge issue. I always try to discourage people from accepting untrusted certs blindly. It's a losing battle. And the CAs themselves have shown themselves to be vulnerable in various ways. I always ask people why they trust CAs :) Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Director, Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Free & Open Source: The revolution that quietly changed the world "One ought not to believe anything, save that which can be proven by nature and the force of reason" -- Frederick II (26 December 1194 ? 13 December 1250) From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 07:28:49 2012 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:28:49 +1000 (EST) Subject: Can you 'fake' an IP address? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2012, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > My picture is that there are two really technically weak links: > > - DNS (until DNSsec is deployed and used) > > - the global routing system. Just advertise a low cost route to the > ASN and you'll hijack traffic. Instant man-in-the-middle. Not > easy to keep secret and requires significant hardware. This has > been (is being) done by countries. There is work in this area. RPKI is being worked on actively by the IETF and the RIRs. Right now it can authenticate end points but they plan on making it authenticate the entire route to avoid Man-in-the-middle attacks. We live in interesting times :) Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Director, Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Free & Open Source: The revolution that quietly changed the world "One ought not to believe anything, save that which can be proven by nature and the force of reason" -- Frederick II (26 December 1194 ? 13 December 1250) From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 18:46:47 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 18:46:47 +0000 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem Message-ID: Hi all; I'm at my in-laws updating their ubuntu 10.04 and such - it hadn't been updated for a while. I updated over 250 packages. I ran into a few annoying problems, such as Firefox no longer working. I was able to fix most of them (although firefox has crashed at least once) but now I'm stuck with a printing problem that I just can't leave without fixing it. I can't access the cupps server with http://localhost:631 and get the following error when I restart CUPS: sudo /etc/init.d/cups restart * Restarting Common Unix Printing System: cupsd /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory libkrb5.so.3.3 is there, but not libkrb5.so.3. I'm not sure what to do here, and googling didn't help. Thanks for any assistance, would like to get home... John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 18:55:22 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 18:55:22 +0000 Subject: UPDATE: [FW: Stuck with Printing Problem] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Firefox is crashing like mad, not sure if these postings are getting through. From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 18:46:47 +0000 Hi all; I'm at my in-laws updating their ubuntu 10.04 and such - it hadn't been updated for a while. I updated over 250 packages. I ran into a few annoying problems, such as Firefox no longer working. I was able to fix most of them (although firefox has crashed at least once) but now I'm stuck with a printing problem that I just can't leave without fixing it. I can't access the cupps server with http://localhost:631 and get the following error when I restart CUPS: sudo /etc/init.d/cups restart * Restarting Common Unix Printing System: cupsd /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory libkrb5.so.3.3 is there, but not libkrb5.so.3. I'm not sure what to do here, and googling didn't help. Thanks for any assistance, would like to get home... John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 18:56:24 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:56:24 +0200 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:46 PM, wrote: > Hi all; > > I'm at my in-laws updating their ubuntu 10.04 and such - it hadn't been > updated for a while. I updated over 250 packages. > > I ran into a few annoying problems, such as Firefox no longer working. I > was able to fix most of them (although firefox has crashed at least once) > but now I'm stuck with a printing problem that I just can't leave without > fixing it. I can't access the cupps server with http://localhost:631 and > get the following error when I restart CUPS: > > sudo /etc/init.d/cups restart > * Restarting Common Unix Printing System: > cupsd > > /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: > cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > libkrb5.so.3.3 is there, but not libkrb5.so.3. I'm not sure what to do > here, and googling didn't help. > > Thanks for any assistance, would like to get home... > > John. > I would try the broote force here, add a link from libkrb5.so.3 to librb5.so.3.3 -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 19:20:49 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 19:20:49 +0000 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:56:24 +0200 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:46 PM, wrote: Hi all; I'm at my in-laws updating their ubuntu 10.04 and such - it hadn't been updated for a while. I updated over 250 packages. I ran into a few annoying problems, such as Firefox no longer working. I was able to fix most of them (although firefox has crashed at least once) but now I'm stuck with a printing problem that I just can't leave without fixing it. I can't access the cupps server with http://localhost:631 and get the following error when I restart CUPS: sudo /etc/init.d/cups restart * Restarting Common Unix Printing System: cupsd /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory libkrb5.so.3.3 is there, but not libkrb5.so.3. I'm not sure what to do here, and googling didn't help. Thanks for any assistance, would like to get home... John. I would try the broote force here, add a link from libkrb5.so.3 to librb5.so.3.3 I get a segmentation fault with that - same as when I tried to rename the file (after a back-up). Anything else? -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 19:25:25 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:25:25 +0200 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:20 PM, wrote: > > > ------------------------------ > From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:56:24 +0200 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:46 PM, wrote: > > Hi all; > > I'm at my in-laws updating their ubuntu 10.04 and such - it hadn't been > updated for a while. I updated over 250 packages. > > I ran into a few annoying problems, such as Firefox no longer working. I > was able to fix most of them (although firefox has crashed at least once) > but now I'm stuck with a printing problem that I just can't leave without > fixing it. I can't access the cupps server with http://localhost:631 and > get the following error when I restart CUPS: > > sudo /etc/init.d/cups restart > * Restarting Common Unix Printing System: > cupsd > > /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: > cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > libkrb5.so.3.3 is there, but not libkrb5.so.3. I'm not sure what to do > here, and googling didn't help. > > Thanks for any assistance, would like to get home... > > John. > > I would try the broote force here, add a link from libkrb5.so.3 to > librb5.so.3.3 > > I get a segmentation fault with that - same as when I tried to rename the > file (after a back-up). > > Anything else? > > -- > Ori Idan > > Sorry I am out of ideas. Myabe try to remove cups using apt-get purge cups not just apt-get remove and then install it again. Hope you will make it, It seems frustrating working on a computer that is not yours and running into such problems. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 19:30:57 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 19:30:57 +0000 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: ,, Message-ID: From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:25:25 +0200 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:20 PM, wrote: From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:56:24 +0200 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:46 PM, wrote: Hi all; I'm at my in-laws updating their ubuntu 10.04 and such - it hadn't been updated for a while. I updated over 250 packages. I ran into a few annoying problems, such as Firefox no longer working. I was able to fix most of them (although firefox has crashed at least once) but now I'm stuck with a printing problem that I just can't leave without fixing it. I can't access the cupps server with http://localhost:631 and get the following error when I restart CUPS: sudo /etc/init.d/cups restart * Restarting Common Unix Printing System: cupsd /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory libkrb5.so.3.3 is there, but not libkrb5.so.3. I'm not sure what to do here, and googling didn't help. Thanks for any assistance, would like to get home... John. I would try the broote force here, add a link from libkrb5.so.3 to librb5.so.3.3 I get a segmentation fault with that - same as when I tried to rename the file (after a back-up). Anything else? -- Ori Idan Sorry I am out of ideas. Myabe try to remove cups using apt-get purge cups not just apt-get remove and then install it again. Hope you will make it, It seems frustrating working on a computer that is not yours and running into such problems. You are so right! It's especially frustrating when all I did was upgrade packages and I'm tight for time. John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 19:32:09 2012 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 15:32:09 -0400 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:20 PM, wrote: > I would try the broote force here, add a link from libkrb5.so.3 to > librb5.so.3.3 > > I get a segmentation fault with that - same as when I tried to rename the > file (after a back-up). > > Anything else? > > -- > It's been a while since I've used apt and dpkg, but I'm pretty sure there's a way to tell it to verify your system against the package manifests. Sounds to me like something didn't install correctly, and the verification should show you which packages are misconfigured and need to be re-installed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 19:57:30 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 19:57:30 +0000 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: ,, Message-ID: From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:25:25 +0200 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:20 PM, wrote: From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:56:24 +0200 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:46 PM, wrote: Hi all; I'm at my in-laws updating their ubuntu 10.04 and such - it hadn't been updated for a while. I updated over 250 packages. I ran into a few annoying problems, such as Firefox no longer working. I was able to fix most of them (although firefox has crashed at least once) but now I'm stuck with a printing problem that I just can't leave without fixing it. I can't access the cupps server with http://localhost:631 and get the following error when I restart CUPS: sudo /etc/init.d/cups restart * Restarting Common Unix Printing System: cupsd /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory libkrb5.so.3.3 is there, but not libkrb5.so.3. I'm not sure what to do here, and googling didn't help. Thanks for any assistance, would like to get home... John. I would try the broote force here, add a link from libkrb5.so.3 to librb5.so.3.3 I get a segmentation fault with that - same as when I tried to rename the file (after a back-up). Anything else? -- Ori Idan Sorry I am out of ideas. Myabe try to remove cups using apt-get purge cups not just apt-get remove and then install it again. It didn't work - still getting error: /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 20:04:08 2012 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:04:08 -0400 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:57 PM, wrote: > /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: cannot > open shared object file: No such file or directory Maybe you need to install or reinstall the libkrb5-3 package? -Vic -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 20:06:36 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 22:06:36 +0200 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:57 PM, wrote: > > From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:25:25 +0200 > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:20 PM, wrote: > > > > ------------------------------ > From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:56:24 +0200 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:46 PM, wrote: > > Hi all; > > I'm at my in-laws updating their ubuntu 10.04 and such - it hadn't been > updated for a while. I updated over 250 packages. > > I ran into a few annoying problems, such as Firefox no longer working. I > was able to fix most of them (although firefox has crashed at least once) > but now I'm stuck with a printing problem that I just can't leave without > fixing it. I can't access the cupps server with http://localhost:631 and > get the following error when I restart CUPS: > > sudo /etc/init.d/cups restart > * Restarting Common Unix Printing System: > cupsd > > /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: > cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > libkrb5.so.3.3 is there, but not libkrb5.so.3. I'm not sure what to do > here, and googling didn't help. > > Thanks for any assistance, would like to get home... > > John. > > I would try the broote force here, add a link from libkrb5.so.3 to > librb5.so.3.3 > > I get a segmentation fault with that - same as when I tried to rename the > file (after a back-up). > > Anything else? > > -- > Ori Idan > > Sorry I am out of ideas. > Myabe try to remove cups using apt-get purge cups not just apt-get remove > and then install it again. > > > It didn't work - still getting error: > > /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: > cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > > John. > ?That is why CUPS stands for Can't Usually Print Something :-) But is seems that Ubuntu cups maintainer really fucked up this time. You can try removing cups again and install it from source code, when you run configure on the source code it will probably ask you for the right version of some packages. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 22:06:52 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 22:06:52 +0000 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: , ,, Message-ID: From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 22:06:36 +0200 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:57 PM, wrote: From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:25:25 +0200 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:20 PM, wrote: From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:56:24 +0200 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:46 PM, wrote: Hi all; I'm at my in-laws updating their ubuntu 10.04 and such - it hadn't been updated for a while. I updated over 250 packages. I ran into a few annoying problems, such as Firefox no longer working. I was able to fix most of them (although firefox has crashed at least once) but now I'm stuck with a printing problem that I just can't leave without fixing it. I can't access the cupps server with http://localhost:631 and get the following error when I restart CUPS: sudo /etc/init.d/cups restart * Restarting Common Unix Printing System: cupsd /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory libkrb5.so.3.3 is there, but not libkrb5.so.3. I'm not sure what to do here, and googling didn't help. Thanks for any assistance, would like to get home... John. I would try the broote force here, add a link from libkrb5.so.3 to librb5.so.3.3 I get a segmentation fault with that - same as when I tried to rename the file (after a back-up). Anything else? -- Ori Idan Sorry I am out of ideas. Myabe try to remove cups using apt-get purge cups not just apt-get remove and then install it again. It didn't work - still getting error: /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory John. ?That is why CUPS stands for Can't Usually Print Something :-) But is seems that Ubuntu cups maintainer really fucked up this time. You can try removing cups again and install it from source code, when you run configure on the source code it will probably ask you for the right version of some packages. I'm home now, had to leave. I guess they'll be without a printer for a little while. Very annoying. CUPS wasn't the only problem. I had to re-install Firefox also. Thanks for your help. John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 14 22:21:27 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 18:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2012, Ori Idan wrote: > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:46 PM, wrote: > >> Hi all; >> >> I'm at my in-laws updating their ubuntu 10.04 and such - it hadn't been >> updated for a while. I updated over 250 packages. >> >> I ran into a few annoying problems, such as Firefox no longer working. I >> was able to fix most of them (although firefox has crashed at least once) >> but now I'm stuck with a printing problem that I just can't leave without >> fixing it. I can't access the cupps server with http://localhost:631 and >> get the following error when I restart CUPS: >> >> sudo /etc/init.d/cups restart >> * Restarting Common Unix Printing System: >> cupsd >> >> /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: >> cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory >> >> libkrb5.so.3.3 is there, but not libkrb5.so.3. I'm not sure what to do >> here, and googling didn't help. >> >> Thanks for any assistance, would like to get home... >> >> John. >> > I would try the broote force here, add a link from libkrb5.so.3 to > librb5.so.3.3 Try using ldconfig as root to create the necessary links. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 15 13:58:05 2012 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 07:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Accessibility (slow keys) in Gnome3 login screen - cannot deactivate. Message-ID: Hi! For some reason some accessibility features (specifically slow keys and sticky keys) in my Gnome3 login screen turn on, and I cannot seems to deactivate / disable / turn-off / reset it. I tried turn them off from the accessibility menu at top right, looks like turned off from the menu, but as soon as I back to login dialog box, the feature still on (if I back to the menu the feature is back on). I tried use shortcut (press shift 8 seconds), dialog box came up, I choose "deactivate", but the feature still on! Anybody know what else to do? Ideally, I like to know how to turn off accessibility features from command line (I can ssh into the machine and have normal access), especially for login screen, although if you know how to do it for users it will be wonderful addition. Thank you! -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 15 15:23:00 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 17:23:00 +0200 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2012/3/15 > > > ------------------------------ > From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 22:06:36 +0200 > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:57 PM, wrote: > > > From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:25:25 +0200 > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:20 PM, wrote: > > > > ------------------------------ > From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:56:24 +0200 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:46 PM, wrote: > > Hi all; > > I'm at my in-laws updating their ubuntu 10.04 and such - it hadn't been > updated for a while. I updated over 250 packages. > > I ran into a few annoying problems, such as Firefox no longer working. I > was able to fix most of them (although firefox has crashed at least once) > but now I'm stuck with a printing problem that I just can't leave without > fixing it. I can't access the cupps server with http://localhost:631 and > get the following error when I restart CUPS: > > sudo /etc/init.d/cups restart > * Restarting Common Unix Printing System: > cupsd > > /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: > cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > libkrb5.so.3.3 is there, but not libkrb5.so.3. I'm not sure what to do > here, and googling didn't help. > > Thanks for any assistance, would like to get home... > > John. > > I would try the broote force here, add a link from libkrb5.so.3 to > librb5.so.3.3 > > I get a segmentation fault with that - same as when I tried to rename the > file (after a back-up). > > Anything else? > > -- > Ori Idan > > Sorry I am out of ideas. > Myabe try to remove cups using apt-get purge cups not just apt-get remove > and then install it again. > > > It didn't work - still getting error: > > /usr/sbin/cupsd: error while loading shared libraries: libkrb5.so.3: > cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > > John. > > ?That is why CUPS stands for Can't Usually Print Something :-) > But is seems that Ubuntu cups maintainer really fucked up this time. > You can try removing cups again and install it from source code, when you > run configure on the source code it will probably ask you for the right > version of some packages. > > > I'm home now, had to leave. I guess they'll be without a printer for a > little while. Very annoying. > CUPS wasn't the only problem. I had to re-install Firefox also. > Thanks for your help. > > John. > > > I checked my desktop computer that runs Ubuntu Linux 11.10 I have libkrb5.so.3 which is a link to libkrb5.so.3.3 I have no problems with printing although I never tried localhost:631 I am using printers from the setup menu. I have heard many horror stories regarding Ubuntu upgrading. I know many people reinstall Ubuntu from scratch instead of upgrading. This can be easily done if you have your /home in a separate partition. I am working with Ubuntu since 2009 and hardly had problems upgrading it. I guess I was lucky. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 15 17:52:31 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:52:31 -0400 Subject: GTALug (Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group) POG (Political Outreach Group). In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Right now we are facing some bills (C-11 and C-30) that could have unpleasant side effects for the open source community. What (if anything) to do about them? Well there is the GTALug (Greater Toronto Area Linux User Group) POG (Political Outreach Group). Just to note that the next GTALug POG meeting will be : March 19th 2012, 7:00 PM at my place (near Yonge and Eglinton). This will be discussions about where open source and politics cross paths. Anyone interested in attending please let me know, and I will send the exact address (this is because my living room is ... not huge and I would like to know how many people to expect). Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 15 20:35:13 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:35:13 -0400 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F625281.7020209@ve3syb.ca> On 12-03-15 11:23 AM, Ori Idan wrote: > I have no problems with printing although I never tried localhost:631 I am > using printers from the setup menu. IIRC, Ubuntu doesn't use (or stopped using) localhost:631. It has the Printing menu entry under Administration for configuring printers. > I have heard many horror stories regarding Ubuntu upgrading. I know many > people reinstall Ubuntu from scratch instead of upgrading. This can be > easily done if you have your /home in a separate partition. I have heard people saying they have heard stories of problems upgrading Ubuntu. When I used to run Fedora I found it was often safer to upgrade it by doing a fresh install. If updating from previous release it may be ok but if you were skipping a release upgrades tended to be more problematic. I have had much better luck doing upgrades under Ubuntu. I haven't yet had to do a fresh install of Ubuntu to upgrade. The only problems I currently have are minor ones and might have been due to my removing all packages relating to Unity (in 11.04) then installing packages for Gnome 2 after booting 11.04 for the first time and quickly realizing I couldn't live with Unity. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 15 20:45:07 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:45:07 -0400 Subject: Low-cost web-hosting recommendations? Message-ID: <20120315204507.GA3642@waltdnes.org> I want to set up a low-traffic website. It'll probably be too much traffic and too large for my "personal webspace" on Teksavvy, so I need a webhosting service. I'm not looking for databases/CGI/etc. I just want to put up a simple web page. I already have a domain name with Tucows/Hover, and I intend to point it at the website. I want to be able to upload with either scp or passive ftp. I don't have Front Page and I don't think it exists for linux. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 15 20:46:30 2012 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:46:30 -0400 Subject: Low-cost web-hosting recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120315204507.GA3642-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120315204507.GA3642@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: I recommend these guys - https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/ On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > I want to set up a low-traffic website. It'll probably be too much > traffic and too large for my "personal webspace" on Teksavvy, so I need > a webhosting service. I'm not looking for databases/CGI/etc. I just > want to put up a simple web page. I already have a domain name with > Tucows/Hover, and I intend to point it at the website. I want to be > able to upload with either scp or passive ftp. I don't have Front Page > and I don't think it exists for linux. > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Sadiq S http://asininetech.com https://launchpad.net/~staticsafe https://github.com/staticsafe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 15 21:12:20 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 17:12:20 -0400 Subject: Low-cost web-hosting recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120315204507.GA3642-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120315204507.GA3642@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4F625B34.90102@alteeve.ca> On 03/15/2012 04:45 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > I want to set up a low-traffic website. It'll probably be too much > traffic and too large for my "personal webspace" on Teksavvy, so I need > a webhosting service. I'm not looking for databases/CGI/etc. I just > want to put up a simple web page. I already have a domain name with > Tucows/Hover, and I intend to point it at the website. I want to be > able to upload with either scp or passive ftp. I don't have Front Page > and I don't think it exists for linux. I've been using these guys; http://www.hetzner.de/en/ Specifically, their X2 offering and have been happy so far. Double-plus is that they're in a country with semi-sane privacy laws. -- Alteeve's Niche! Madison Kelly 647-501-5200 Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 15 21:19:58 2012 From: sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Sammy Lao) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 17:19:58 -0400 Subject: Low-cost web-hosting recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120315204507.GA3642-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120315204507.GA3642@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <-8745395612425801007@unknownmsgid> Walter, A lot of people are using Github for this purpose. You might want to look that up. Sent from my mobile On 2012-03-15, at 16:45, Walter Dnes wrote: > I want to set up a low-traffic website. It'll probably be too much > traffic and too large for my "personal webspace" on Teksavvy, so I need > a webhosting service. I'm not looking for databases/CGI/etc. I just > want to put up a simple web page. I already have a domain name with > Tucows/Hover, and I intend to point it at the website. I want to be > able to upload with either scp or passive ftp. I don't have Front Page > and I don't think it exists for linux. > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 16 04:12:31 2012 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 00:12:31 -0400 Subject: Low-cost web-hosting recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120315204507.GA3642-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120315204507.GA3642@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120316001231.377fd2f0.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:45:07 -0400 "Walter Dnes" wrote: > I want to set up a low-traffic website. It'll probably be too much > traffic and too large for my "personal webspace" on Teksavvy, so I need > a webhosting service. I'm not looking for databases/CGI/etc. I just > want to put up a simple web page. I already have a domain name with > Tucows/Hover, and I intend to point it at the website. I want to be > able to upload with either scp or passive ftp. I don't have Front Page > and I don't think it exists for linux. Walter, I have been using http://myID.ca for a hiking club. $5/month. No scripts. http://www.WebPagesThatSuck.com used to list Front Page as a serious web page design error. Stick with vi. :) -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 16 07:02:00 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:02:00 +0200 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: <4F625281.7020209-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4F625281.7020209@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 12-03-15 11:23 AM, Ori Idan wrote: > >> I have no problems with printing although I never tried localhost:631 I am >> using printers from the setup menu. >> > > IIRC, Ubuntu doesn't use (or stopped using) localhost:631. It has the > Printing menu entry under Administration for configuring printers. > > I did not know there is an alternative interface to cups not using port 631. > > I have heard many horror stories regarding Ubuntu upgrading. I know many >> people reinstall Ubuntu from scratch instead of upgrading. This can be >> easily done if you have your /home in a separate partition. >> > > I have heard people saying they have heard stories of problems upgrading > Ubuntu. When I used to run Fedora I found it was often safer to upgrade it > by doing a fresh install. If updating from previous release it may be ok > but if you were skipping a release upgrades tended to be more problematic. > > I have had much better luck doing upgrades under Ubuntu. I haven't yet had > to do a fresh install of Ubuntu to upgrade. The only problems I currently > have are minor ones and might have been due to my removing all packages > relating to Unity (in 11.04) then installing packages for Gnome 2 after > booting 11.04 for the first time and quickly realizing I couldn't live with > Unity. > > I myself also had only minor problems upgrading Ubuntu. I never upgraded from a release other then the previous one. When I had such a situation I performed two upgrades, that's of course time consuming but seems to me safer. I have read in other mailing lists people telling horror stories about Ubuntu upgrades. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 16 11:12:13 2012 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 07:12:13 -0400 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: <4F625281.7020209-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4F625281.7020209@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On 15 March 2012 16:35, Kevin Cozens wrote: > IIRC, Ubuntu doesn't use (or stopped using) localhost:631. It has the > Printing menu entry under Administration for configuring printers. localhost:631 works with a fairly fresh install of Ubuntu 11.10 on my Asus netbook and Compaq laptop, and older Ubuntu versions on other systems. Though the admin printing menu is there as well and probably the recommended way of doing it. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 16 14:34:32 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 14:34:32 +0000 Subject: Stuck with Printing Problem In-Reply-To: <4F625281.7020209-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: ,<4F625281.7020209@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:35:13 -0400 > From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Stuck with Printing Problem > > On 12-03-15 11:23 AM, Ori Idan wrote: > > I have no problems with printing although I never tried localhost:631 I am > > using printers from the setup menu. > > IIRC, Ubuntu doesn't use (or stopped using) localhost:631. It has the > Printing menu entry under Administration for configuring printers. The Printing utility is not doing anything. It tries to start, then disappears. That's probably because the cups server won't start up (not finding the shared library). localhost:631 cannot get a connection. > > > I have heard many horror stories regarding Ubuntu upgrading. I know many > > people reinstall Ubuntu from scratch instead of upgrading. This can be > > easily done if you have your /home in a separate partition. > > I have heard people saying they have heard stories of problems upgrading > Ubuntu. When I used to run Fedora I found it was often safer to upgrade it > by doing a fresh install. If updating from previous release it may be ok but > if you were skipping a release upgrades tended to be more problematic. > > I have had much better luck doing upgrades under Ubuntu. I haven't yet had > to do a fresh install of Ubuntu to upgrade. The only problems I currently > have are minor ones and might have been due to my removing all packages > relating to Unity (in 11.04) then installing packages for Gnome 2 after > booting 11.04 for the first time and quickly realizing I couldn't live with > Unity. I wasn't upgrading ubuntu, only updating packages listed on the update manager. My in-laws don't do any updating (they usually forget everything I've said as soon as I go out the door), so there were over 250 packages to download. Besides printing, I also lost all function in firefox (had to remove and re-install - then it crashed a bunch of times), and lost the gnome clock aplet (after a few tries gave up trying to add it back to the panel). There could be other failures I haven't run into. John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 16 14:46:26 2012 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 07:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Low-cost web-hosting recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120315204507.GA3642-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120315204507.GA3642@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1331909186.47419.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi, A VPS (Virtual Private Server, full Linux OS with dedicated RAM & disk space on shared physical host) with the "gold standard" Rackspace starts at about $12/month. There's a lot of cheaper VPS hosting although the savings?may?not be worth it when considering reliability and features. For free you may get away with Heroku or Github (there are constrains) or hosting blog platforms like wordpress.com etc. Amazon offers a free micro instance for a year?http://aws.amazon.com/free/? but after that it may get pricey. ? --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: Walter Dnes > To: Toronto Linux Users Group > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 4:45:07 PM > Subject: [TLUG]: Low-cost web-hosting recommendations? > > ? I want to set up a low-traffic website.? It'll probably be too much > traffic and too large for my "personal webspace" on Teksavvy, so I > need > a webhosting service.? I'm not looking for databases/CGI/etc.? I just > want to put up a simple web page.? I already have a domain name with > Tucows/Hover, and I intend to point it at the website.? I want to be > able to upload with either scp or passive ftp.? I don't have Front Page > and I don't think it exists for linux. > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 16 15:35:16 2012 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 11:35:16 -0400 Subject: Low-cost web-hosting recommendations? In-Reply-To: <1331909186.47419.YahooMailNeo-Tm7EnexblBL5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20120315204507.GA3642@waltdnes.org> <1331909186.47419.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Fernando Duran wrote: > Amazon offers a free micro instance for a year?http://aws.amazon.com/free/? but after that it may get pricey. Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3) -http://aws.amazon.com/s3/ - now has the capability of hosting static web pages. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 16 16:09:24 2012 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 12:09:24 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy cable modems In-Reply-To: <4F5BBA0F.9030009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120309191252.GJ14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F5BBA0F.9030009@rogers.com> Message-ID: So anyway I figured out what the issue was. I had thee systems connected on the external VLAN (Cable modem, existing firewall and my new firewall). The new firewall will not get a DHCP lease if the old one still has a valid lease. It seems that Teksavvy won't allow more than one system with a public IP behind the cable modem. I had to set the existing firewall with a static IP and power recycle the cable modem. Just a bit of a background: My new firewall is a thin client running FreeBSD 8.2 with a single 100Mb/s interface. I use VLAN trunking to the thin client and then create psuedo-interfaces on FreeBSD. On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 3:31 PM, James Knott wrote: > Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> >> Thats pretty much my exact configuration.One additional note, I am >> using 801.q VLANs. If you are having issues getting the GS108E to work >> ping me offline and I will show you my config. I do have VLAN trunking >> enabled. >> >> I tested the VLANs without the router and they appear to be properly >> configured. >> >> I guess the fundamental questions here are >> 1. If I plug my Cable modem and firewall into a hub or switch, will >> they work just as if i connected them "back to back". i.e. I am issued >> a non RFC 1918 address and I am "on" the internet. >> 2. If I plug my cable modem onto a network segment with more than one >> system that is configured with DHCP how many IP Addresses will >> Teksavvy issue to me? > > > The fundemental question is how is the port the modem is connected to > configured? ?If a "trunk" port, then it will passs VLAN tags, which may > confuse the modem. ?If an "edge" or "access" port, then it's assigned to a > specific VLAN and will not pass the tag to the modem. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 16 16:32:32 2012 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Low-cost web-hosting recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <20120315204507.GA3642@waltdnes.org> <1331909186.47419.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1331915552.72744.YahooMailNeo@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> >> Amazon offers a free micro instance for a year?http://aws.amazon.com/free/? > but after that it may get pricey. > > Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3) -http://aws.amazon.com/s3/ -? now > has the capability of hosting static web pages. > -- Nice, this seems a very attractive option in terms of price and reliability for a static web site that doesn't have a huge traffic. --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 17 10:01:03 2012 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 10:01:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Communication and communication company ownership in Canada Message-ID: I was under the impression that some new law was passed recently concerning the ownership of Canadian communications companies by foreign companies. I can't find references on it now. But I found this: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/03/16/media-ownership-concentration-bell-astral_n_1353596.html How come there can be an effective duopoly in Canadian internet infrastructure providers when, at the same time, drastic anti monopoly regulations as shown in the article I cited have been implemented for decades? puzzled, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 17 20:55:50 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 16:55:50 -0400 Subject: Communication and communication company ownership in Canada In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F64FA56.1090507@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > I was under the impression that some new law was passed recently concerning the > ownership of Canadian communications companies by foreign companies. I can't > find references on it now. But I found this: > > http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/03/16/media-ownership-concentration-bell-astral_n_1353596.html I am also concerned about that deal. However, if it goes through, I hope they do something about that irritating noise that passes for music on 99.9 in Toronto. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 18 08:57:26 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 04:57:26 -0400 Subject: Communication and communication company ownership in Canada In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120318085726.GC10451@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 10:01:03AM +0000, Peter wrote > I was under the impression that some new law was passed recently > concerning the ownership of Canadian communications companies by > foreign companies. I can't find references on it now. I think you mean http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/03/14/paradis-industry.html > Paradis said Ottawa will lift restrictions on foreign investment in > firms with less than 10 per cent of market share by revenue. So it will only apply to small players in the market, like Wind/Mobilicity/PublicMobile/etc. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 19 15:48:24 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: nice paper on FireFox memory usage reduction In-Reply-To: <4F2EE767.8020503-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4F2EE767.8020503@dinamis.com> Message-ID: | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY | Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2012 15:32:39 -0500 | On 02/04/2012 11:42 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > When I type "about:memory" into my firefox I get a lot of surprises. | The Ghostery add-on | will disable all manner of things, not just +1 and FB. It's quite instructive | to see what it's blocking, or not. You control what it blocks and what it | doesn't. Since I started using it, Firefox feels snappy again. I got around to trying ghostery recently. My FF got sluggish again (about:memory wouldn't complete), so I restarted it, and did an about:memory. Now ghostery is taking 26MB, about 50 times! Total: 1.517 GB. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 19 16:12:38 2012 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 12:12:38 -0400 Subject: nice paper on FireFox memory usage reduction In-Reply-To: References: <4F2EE767.8020503@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 11:48 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > I got around to trying ghostery recently. > > My FF got sluggish again (about:memory wouldn't complete), so I > restarted it, and did an about:memory. Now ghostery is taking 26MB, > about 50 times! Total: 1.517 GB. > What version of FF? Do you have other extensions that are conflicting with it? I've got 15 tabs open in FF 11 right now, and 21 extensions installed, and it's using about 360 MB. about:memory shows one worker for ghostery, using 5.13 MB. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 19 22:09:47 2012 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 18:09:47 -0400 Subject: nice paper on FireFox memory usage reduction In-Reply-To: References: <4F2EE767.8020503@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4F67AEAB.1090105@dinamis.com> On 03/19/2012 11:48 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY > | Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2012 15:32:39 -0500 > > | On 02/04/2012 11:42 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > |> When I type "about:memory" into my firefox I get a lot of surprises. > > | The Ghostery add-on > | will disable all manner of things, not just +1 and FB. It's quite instructive > | to see what it's blocking, or not. You control what it blocks and what it > | doesn't. Since I started using it, Firefox feels snappy again. > > I got around to trying ghostery recently. > > My FF got sluggish again (about:memory wouldn't complete), so I > restarted it, and did an about:memory. Now ghostery is taking 26MB, > about 50 times! Total: 1.517 GB. Definitely something wacky going on there. I have about 150 tabs open right now. Firefox is consuming about 1.6GB in total. Ghostery appears about a dozen times in the tree and consumes about 55MB. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 02:13:49 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 22:13:49 -0400 Subject: SSH with -N and -f in an upstart job Message-ID: <4F67E7DD.9050406@utoronto.ca> I'm attempting to use upstart to start up a bunch of ssh port forwarding mappings so that I can check Munin over SSH only (Munin 2.0 has this functionality but isn't ready yet). So far, if I create a simple bash script with a series of commands like the following, I can run munin server locally and have it poll the remote munin-nodes no problem. sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node1 -L 5001:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node2 -L 5002:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node3 -L 5003:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f The problem is that if I put these into exec statements in an upstart job, only the first one executes, the other two do not. I've also tried calling a bash script containing the commands, but upstart just hangs in that case. Anyone here who has written upstart jobs that might be able to point me in the right direction? I'm trying to use upstart instead of an init.d script or rc.local because it seems like a reasonably clean way to run processes like this on startup. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 02:21:32 2012 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 22:21:32 -0400 Subject: SSH with -N and -f in an upstart job In-Reply-To: <4F67E7DD.9050406-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F67E7DD.9050406@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4F67E9AC.2090605@gmail.com> You sure its running? or is it prompting for password that you don't see because its run from a different user? -tl On 03/19/2012 10:13 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I'm attempting to use upstart to start up a bunch of ssh port forwarding > mappings so that I can check Munin over SSH only (Munin 2.0 has this > functionality but isn't ready yet). > > So far, if I create a simple bash script with a series of commands like > the following, I can run munin server locally and have it poll the > remote munin-nodes no problem. > > sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node1 -L 5001:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f > sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node2 -L 5002:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f > sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node3 -L 5003:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f > > The problem is that if I put these into exec statements in an upstart > job, only the first one executes, the other two do not. > > I've also tried calling a bash script containing the commands, but > upstart just hangs in that case. > > Anyone here who has written upstart jobs that might be able to point me > in the right direction? > > I'm trying to use upstart instead of an init.d script or rc.local > because it seems like a reasonably clean way to run processes like this > on startup. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 02:27:26 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 22:27:26 -0400 Subject: SSH with -N and -f in an upstart job In-Reply-To: <1227_1332210214_q2K2NXdT003185_4F67E9AC.2090605-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4F67E7DD.9050406@utoronto.ca> <1227_1332210214_q2K2NXdT003185_4F67E9AC.2090605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F67EB0E.5040606@utoronto.ca> On 12-03-19 10:21 PM, Ted wrote: > On 03/19/2012 10:13 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> I'm attempting to use upstart to start up a bunch of ssh port forwarding >> mappings so that I can check Munin over SSH only (Munin 2.0 has this >> functionality but isn't ready yet). >> >> So far, if I create a simple bash script with a series of commands like >> the following, I can run munin server locally and have it poll the >> remote munin-nodes no problem. >> >> sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node1 -L 5001:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f >> sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node2 -L 5002:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f >> sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node3 -L 5003:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f >> >> The problem is that if I put these into exec statements in an upstart >> job, only the first one executes, the other two do not. >> >> I've also tried calling a bash script containing the commands, but >> upstart just hangs in that case. >> >> Anyone here who has written upstart jobs that might be able to point me >> in the right direction? >> >> I'm trying to use upstart instead of an init.d script or rc.local >> because it seems like a reasonably clean way to run processes like this >> on startup. > > You sure its running? or is it prompting for password that you don't > see because its run from a different user? Absolutely - SSH keys, fingerprints, and authorized_keys files are in place and work. Like I said, calling the exact same commands manually or in a bash script is fine. Upstart just seems to stop with the first successful port forwarding attempt, which makes me think it may not be suited to serially executing commands. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 02:31:26 2012 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 19:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SSH with -N and -f in an upstart job In-Reply-To: <4F67E7DD.9050406-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F67E7DD.9050406@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1332210686.41278.YahooMailNeo@web88602.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ________________________________ From: Jamon Camisso To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:13:49 PM Subject: [TLUG]: SSH with -N and -f in an upstart job I'm attempting to use upstart to start up a bunch of ssh port forwarding mappings so that I can check Munin over SSH only (Munin 2.0 has this functionality but isn't ready yet). So far, if I create a simple bash script with a series of commands like the following, I can run munin server locally and have it poll the remote munin-nodes no problem. sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node1 -L 5001:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node2 -L 5002:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node3 -L 5003:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f The problem is that if I put these into exec statements in an upstart job, only the first one executes, the other two do not. I've also tried calling a bash script containing the commands, but upstart just hangs in that case. Anyone here who has written upstart jobs that might be able to point me in the right direction? I'm trying to use upstart instead of an init.d script or rc.local because it seems like a reasonably clean way to run processes like this on startup. Jamon Jamon, is there a reason to use "exec"? Doesn't that replace the process that called the exec? Shouldn't you leave "exec" out of those comamnds? I notice that "exec" doesn't appear in those three command lines you have above. Just wondering, -David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 02:39:37 2012 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 19:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SSH with -N and -f in an upstart job In-Reply-To: <4F67E7DD.9050406-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F67E7DD.9050406@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1332211177.89669.YahooMailNeo@web88611.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> ________________________________ From: Jamon Camisso To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:13:49 PM Subject: [TLUG]: SSH with -N and -f in an upstart job I'm attempting to use upstart to start up a bunch of ssh port forwarding mappings so that I can check Munin over SSH only (Munin 2.0 has this functionality but isn't ready yet). So far, if I create a simple bash script with a series of commands like the following, I can run munin server locally and have it poll the remote munin-nodes no problem. sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node1 -L 5001:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node2 -L 5002:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node3 -L 5003:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f The problem is that if I put these into exec statements in an upstart job, only the first one executes, the other two do not. I've also tried calling a bash script containing the commands, but upstart just hangs in that case. Anyone here who has written upstart jobs that might be able to point me in the right direction? I'm trying to use upstart instead of an init.d script or rc.local because it seems like a reasonably clean way to run processes like this on startup. Jamon Sorry abou the HTML... Why don't you use a regular shell script, and call that from the upsatrt script using a single exec? -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 14:26:22 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:26:22 -0400 Subject: SSH with -N and -f in an upstart job In-Reply-To: <1332211177.89669.YahooMailNeo-baQkSA5mcWyvYMxfvLqCK1Z8N9CAUha/QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4F67E7DD.9050406@utoronto.ca> <1332211177.89669.YahooMailNeo@web88611.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F68938E.4020708@utoronto.ca> On 12-03-19 10:39 PM, DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: > From: Jamon Camisso > sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node1 -L 5001:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f > sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node2 -L 5002:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f > sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node3 -L 5003:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f > > The problem is that if I put these into exec statements in an upstart > job, only the first one executes, the other two do not. > > I've also tried calling a bash script containing the commands, but > upstart just hangs in that case. > > Anyone here who has written upstart jobs that might be able to point me > in the right direction? > > I'm trying to use upstart instead of an init.d script or rc.local > because it seems like a reasonably clean way to run processes like this > on startup. > > Jamon > Sorry abou the HTML... Why don't you use a regular shell script, and call that from the upsatrt script using a single exec? I tried that as well - I noted that when called as a script, upstart just hangs indefinitely and doesn't even establish a single SSH session. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 14:30:01 2012 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:30:01 -0400 Subject: SSH with -N and -f in an upstart job In-Reply-To: <4F68938E.4020708-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F67E7DD.9050406@utoronto.ca> <1332211177.89669.YahooMailNeo@web88611.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F68938E.4020708@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4F689469.3090802@gmail.com> put a >> /tmp/log.1 2>> /tmp/log.2 on end of first one, maybe glean some info. I mentioned before about the fact it may be prompting for password, but i didn't mean for the ssh command but rather the sudo, as if run by another user, and also ssh may involve other resources that may render present sudoer file setting not adequate enough? -tl On 03/20/2012 10:26 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 12-03-19 10:39 PM, DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: >> From: Jamon Camisso >> sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node1 -L 5001:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f >> sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node2 -L 5002:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f >> sudo -u munin ssh muninuser at node3 -L 5003:127.0.0.1:4949 -N -f >> >> The problem is that if I put these into exec statements in an upstart >> job, only the first one executes, the other two do not. >> >> I've also tried calling a bash script containing the commands, but >> upstart just hangs in that case. >> >> Anyone here who has written upstart jobs that might be able to point me >> in the right direction? >> >> I'm trying to use upstart instead of an init.d script or rc.local >> because it seems like a reasonably clean way to run processes like this >> on startup. >> >> Jamon >> Sorry abou the HTML... Why don't you use a regular shell script, and call that from the upsatrt script using a single exec? > I tried that as well - I noted that when called as a script, upstart > just hangs indefinitely and doesn't even establish a single SSH session. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 14:34:42 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:34:42 -0400 Subject: SSH with -N and -f in an upstart job In-Reply-To: <20964_1332253932_q2KEWBeC029971_4F689469.3090802-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4F67E7DD.9050406@utoronto.ca> <1332211177.89669.YahooMailNeo@web88611.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F68938E.4020708@utoronto.ca> <20964_1332253932_q2KEWBeC029971_4F689469.3090802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F689582.10104@utoronto.ca> On 12-03-20 10:30 AM, Ted wrote: > put a > >>> /tmp/log.1 2>> /tmp/log.2 > on end of first one, maybe glean some info. > > I mentioned before about the fact it may be prompting for password, but > i didn't mean for the ssh command but rather the sudo, > as if run by another user, and also ssh may involve other resources that > may render present sudoer file setting not adequate enough? Good idea to debug that way, though the upstart job is running as root. Moreover, if there is just a single command in the upstart job, it completes successfully. It is almost like the first command is being run but improperly forked. Am currently investigating fork/daemonize options. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 14:41:05 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:41:05 -0500 Subject: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 Message-ID: I can connect to my wep wireless connection in Windows but NOT in Linux. Linux keeps asking for password and will NOT authenticate Please can somebody solve this? I need a solution before Thursday March 22, 2012 I will come to you with the laptop Call me, Chris, 647 453 3327 ASAP Thanks in advance -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 14:57:58 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:57:58 -0400 Subject: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F689AF6.6030904@rogers.com> charles chris wrote: > I can connect to my wep wireless connection in Windows but NOT in Linux. Why are you still using WEP? It's easily broken. You should be using WPA2 or at least WPA. BTW, it might help if you mentioned your distro. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 15:29:24 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:29:24 -0500 Subject: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 In-Reply-To: <4F689AF6.6030904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F689AF6.6030904@rogers.com> Message-ID: Linux Mint 9 LXDE WEP works for older wireless network adapters that cant authenticate via WPA On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 9:57 AM, James Knott wrote: > charles chris wrote: > >> I can connect to my wep wireless connection in Windows but NOT in Linux. >> > > Why are you still using WEP? It's easily broken. You should be using > WPA2 or at least WPA. > > BTW, it might help if you mentioned your distro. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 16:33:49 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: <4F689AF6.6030904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1332261229.2591.YahooMailNeo@web113411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I don't think WEP, WPA, WPA2 are determined by the card. -- William >________________________________ > From: charles chris >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:29:24 AM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 > > >Linux Mint 9 LXDE > >WEP works for older wireless network adapters that cant authenticate via WPA > > >On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 9:57 AM, James Knott wrote: > >charles chris wrote: >> >>I can connect to my wep wireless connection in Windows but NOT in Linux. >>> >> Why are you still using WEP? ?It's easily broken. ?You should be using WPA2 or at least WPA. >> >>BTW, it might help if you mentioned your distro. >> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > >-- >http://drpcdr.ca >http://jobcircle.ca >416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 20 16:45:13 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:45:13 -0500 Subject: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 In-Reply-To: <1332261229.2591.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOGORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <4F689AF6.6030904@rogers.com> <1332261229.2591.YahooMailNeo@web113411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes some older cards cant do WPA. That's a fact jack! Either it's the hardware limitation or the driver On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 11:33 AM, William Park wrote: > I don't think WEP, WPA, WPA2 are determined by the card. > -- > William > > ------------------------------ > *From:* charles chris > *To:* tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:29:24 AM > *Subject:* Re: [TLUG]: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card > to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 > > Linux Mint 9 LXDE > > WEP works for older wireless network adapters that cant authenticate via > WPA > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 9:57 AM, James Knott wrote: > > charles chris wrote: > > I can connect to my wep wireless connection in Windows but NOT in Linux. > > > Why are you still using WEP? It's easily broken. You should be using > WPA2 or at least WPA. > > BTW, it might help if you mentioned your distro. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > http://drpcdr.ca > http://jobcircle.ca > 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 > > > > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 01:51:20 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 21:51:20 -0400 Subject: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F693418.9030205@gmail.com> On 12-03-20 10:41 , charles chris wrote: > I can connect to my wep wireless connection in Windows but NOT in Linux. Best bet is ndiswrapper and the Windows driver. Trendnet say there is no native driver for Linux. Check very carefully the hardware revision, 'cos Trendnet had a habit of keeping the same model number but switching out the chipset. If you have the driver CD for windows you could well be sorted. I had a PCI 421 that was a Marvell 8000C. Worked like a champ with ndiswrapper*. Didn't work with 64-bit OSs. cheers, Stewart *: as much as ndiswrapper can work. I mean, for user-level network stuff it worked fine, but I wouldn't have put it in a server. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 13:09:48 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:09:48 -0500 Subject: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 In-Reply-To: <4F693418.9030205-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4F693418.9030205@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Stewart: Thanks for your reply. Yes I have the Windows drivers on CD for the Trendnet PCMCIA wireless network card I wish Linux was more like Windows in that most things work straight out of the box, especially the installation of device drivers. While creating images for Linux, I am learning a lot about Linux. I have been reading stuff posted to the Ubuntu forums. However, I have NOT tried any of the suggestions yet. I have taken notes and will visit freegeektoronto today and let an expert there resolve the issue. If they cannot resolve the issue then I will put windows on it which I hate to do because this laptop, HP Omnibook 6000 is a Pentium III, 1GHz (I think), Max 512 RAM. My image of Windows XP Pro SP2 almost crawls on this hardware. Linux runs better on low spec computers! I also have problem with internal webcam on old macbook pro and I have researched this, found the driver and made notes but have not tried to install it yet. Again I will leave that to experts at FreeGeekToronto. Armed with the drivers and my notes they should be able to resolve the webcam issue also. Cheers! On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 12-03-20 10:41 , charles chris wrote: > > I can connect to my wep wireless connection in Windows but NOT in Linux. > > Best bet is ndiswrapper and the Windows driver. Trendnet say there is no > native driver for Linux. Check very carefully the hardware revision, > 'cos Trendnet had a habit of keeping the same model number but switching > out the chipset. If you have the driver CD for windows you could well be > sorted. > > I had a PCI 421 that was a Marvell 8000C. Worked like a champ with > ndiswrapper*. Didn't work with 64-bit OSs. > > cheers, > Stewart > > *: as much as ndiswrapper can work. I mean, for user-level network stuff > it worked fine, but I wouldn't have put it in a server. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 13:15:48 2012 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:15:48 -0400 Subject: Desktop GUI concept Message-ID: http://www.punchgraphicdesign.com/blog/2009/10/19/future-of-the-desktop-interface.html -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 13:38:55 2012 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:38:55 -0400 Subject: Desktop GUI concept In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120321093855.c1188f1f.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:15:48 -0400 Thomas Milne wrote: > http://www.punchgraphicdesign.com/blog/2009/10/19/future-of-the-desktop-interface.html I am still running FVWM2 here. Do current desktops really and truly not work? I can give you a good example here of a similar solution. I took typing in school, a disturbing number of years ago. I am fully trained on the QWERTY keyboard. The Dvorak keyboard is probably better, but I have better things to do with my time than learn how to type again. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 14:45:23 2012 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:45:23 -0500 Subject: learning libusb 1.0 on a Phidgets SBC Message-ID: <201203210945.24678.icanprogram@295.ca> I've been plugging along up the USB and libusb learning curve using my Phidgets SBC as the toy. This is all part of my open source project documented here: http://www.icanprogram.com/opndrs/phidgets I recently modified some libusb supplied sample code which does async I/O on an interrupt endpoint ... which is exactly what I need for the Phidgets SBC integrated 8/8/8 Interface Kit. If I display the endpoint parameters associated with this USB endpoint it tells me that it will poll out at 8ms intervals. However, when I introduce the poll() call as per this code snip: http://www.icanprogram.com/opndrs/phidgets/2012Mar21.html I see the poll delay being 7ms. The period between my interrupt callbacks is still the expected 8ms. The other curious thing is that my poll call returns with the POLLOUT bit set rather than the POLLIN bit I would have expected. My Linux resources says that POLLOUT is "Writing now will not block". Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks in advance for your help. bob PS. If anyone is interested in helping out with this little project, by all means contact me offlist. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 14:19:57 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:19:57 -0400 Subject: SSH with -N and -f in an upstart job In-Reply-To: <4F689582.10104-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F67E7DD.9050406@utoronto.ca> <1332211177.89669.YahooMailNeo@web88611.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F68938E.4020708@utoronto.ca> <20964_1332253932_q2KEWBeC029971_4F689469.3090802@gmail.com> <4F689582.10104@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4F69E38D.9030206@utoronto.ca> On 03/20/2012 10:34 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 12-03-20 10:30 AM, Ted wrote: >> put a >> >>>> /tmp/log.1 2>> /tmp/log.2 >> on end of first one, maybe glean some info. >> >> I mentioned before about the fact it may be prompting for password, but >> i didn't mean for the ssh command but rather the sudo, >> as if run by another user, and also ssh may involve other resources that >> may render present sudoer file setting not adequate enough? > > Good idea to debug that way, though the upstart job is running as root. > Moreover, if there is just a single command in the upstart job, it > completes successfully. It is almost like the first command is being run > but improperly forked. Am currently investigating fork/daemonize options. Nothing gets written when logging, I've tried a combination of stdout, and stdout 2>&1 stderr redirection. Next step seems like strace or ltrace would be a way to get more info. I also tried using 'script' and 'expect fork' but neither changed the behaviour of either locking up, or only executing one of the port forwarding SSH tunnels. UnfortunatelyI think it is rc.local for now. Thanks all, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 14:21:49 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:21:49 -0400 Subject: Desktop GUI concept In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F69E3FD.6000501@rogers.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > http://www.punchgraphicdesign.com/blog/2009/10/19/future-of-the-desktop-interface.html > What we need are those "tablets" that can be pulled out of thin air, just like the aliens had on "V". ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 14:59:45 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:59:45 -0400 Subject: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: <4F693418.9030205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120321145945.GA10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 08:09:48AM -0500, charles chris wrote: > Hi Stewart: > > Thanks for your reply. > > Yes I have the Windows drivers on CD for the Trendnet PCMCIA wireless > network card > > I wish Linux was more like Windows in that most things work straight out of > the box, especially the installation of device drivers. Linux is in many cases better than windows. I have a linksys 802.11bg PCI wifi card. Works with XP, works with linux, does not work with vista or windows 7 (unless you brute force the install of the ralink reference driver). HP inkjet all in one from about 8 years ago. No drivers for vista or windows 7. Plug it into linux and it just works. Once something works with linux, it stays working. On windows it stays working as long as the manufacturor is willing to write drivers for new windows versions, which often they are not. > While creating images for Linux, I am learning a lot about Linux. > > I have been reading stuff posted to the Ubuntu forums. However, I have NOT > tried any of the suggestions yet. > > I have taken notes and will visit freegeektoronto today and let an expert > there resolve the issue. > > If they cannot resolve the issue then I will put windows on it which I hate > to do because this laptop, HP Omnibook 6000 is a Pentium III, 1GHz (I > think), Max 512 RAM. > > My image of Windows XP Pro SP2 almost crawls on this hardware. > > Linux runs better on low spec computers! > > I also have problem with internal webcam on old macbook pro and I have > researched this, found the driver and made notes but have not tried to > install it yet. Again I will leave that to experts at FreeGeekToronto. > Armed with the drivers and my notes they should be able to resolve the > webcam issue also. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 15:22:12 2012 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:22:12 -0400 Subject: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: <4F693418.9030205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F69F224.1090404@the-wire.com> On 03/21/2012 09:09 AM, charles chris wrote: > Yes I have the Windows drivers on CD for the Trendnet PCMCIA wireless > network card > > I wish Linux was more like Windows in that most things work straight > out of the box, especially the installation of device drivers. Yeah. When you buy Windows you do get that for your hundred-odd bucks. Microsoft will have twisted manufacturers' arms to get device drivers. Lately my HP printer will only print PDF and Postscript images properly if I connect it to a WinXP machine and run the files through Samba and IrfanView. If I try on Ubuntu I get one or two lines of printing and a long, long wait. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From voidpointer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 16:16:05 2012 From: voidpointer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Nicolaides) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:16:05 -0400 Subject: Desktop GUI concept In-Reply-To: <4F69E3FD.6000501-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F69E3FD.6000501@rogers.com> Message-ID: That computer interface in Minority Report was pretty swanky. :D In regards to the link, I kept thinking to myself, "so you reinvented the tiling window manager?" On 21 March 2012 10:21, James Knott wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: > >> http://www.punchgraphicdesign.**com/blog/2009/10/19/future-of-** >> the-desktop-interface.html >> >> > What we need are those "tablets" that can be pulled out of thin air, just > like the aliens had on "V". ;-) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 17:46:26 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Desktop GUI concept In-Reply-To: <20120321093855.c1188f1f.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120321093855.c1188f1f.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Mar 2012, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:15:48 -0400 > Thomas Milne wrote: > >> http://www.punchgraphicdesign.com/blog/2009/10/19/future-of-the-desktop-interface.html > > I am still running FVWM2 here. Do current desktops really and truly not work? I have no trouble with my desktop (Windowmaker); I have none of the problems described in that video. Multitouch technology? That's what I have been using since 1963; it's called a keyboard. > I can give you a good example here of a similar solution. I took > typing in school, a disturbing number of years ago. I am fully > trained on the QWERTY keyboard. I don't touch type, but I type fast enough to have worked as a typesetter in various places over the years. > The Dvorak keyboard is probably better, but I have better things > to do with my time than learn how to type again. Studies do not show that the Dvorak layout gives any significant advantage. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 18:06:42 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:06:42 -0400 Subject: Desktop GUI concept In-Reply-To: <20120321093855.c1188f1f.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120321093855.c1188f1f.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:15:48 -0400 > Thomas Milne wrote: > >> http://www.punchgraphicdesign.com/blog/2009/10/19/future-of-the-desktop-interface.html > > ? I am still running FVWM2 here. ?Do current desktops really and truly not work? I watched a bit of the video, sans sound. It showed off some problems with the *recent* developments (e.g. - touch-based screens, which have pretty anti-ergonomic properties), but it's not evident that it torpedoes the more elderly desktop notions. > ? I can give you a good example here of a similar solution. ?I took typing in school, a disturbing number of years ago. ?I am fully trained on the QWERTY keyboard. ?The Dvorak keyboard is probably better, but I have better things to do with my time than learn how to type again. The pro-Dvorak propaganda suffers from the problem that it was produced by salescritters that were trying to win contracts to sell Dvorak keyboards. So the "research" proving superiority is better characterized as "marketing propaganda" than as "carefully vetted research." And that applies pretty well to a whole lot of HCI research: quite frequently it is self-serving to support hawking the organization's products. Apple has raised this to a fine art, as their product releases, these days, are extremely finely crafted propaganda to support people believing that whatever they presently have for sale has the best HCI presently in existence. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 18:06:49 2012 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:06:49 -0400 Subject: Desktop GUI concept In-Reply-To: References: <20120321093855.c1188f1f.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 21 Mar 2012, Howard Gibson wrote: > >> On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:15:48 -0400 >> Thomas Milne wrote: >> [...] > ? ?Studies do not show that the Dvorak layout gives any significant > ? ?advantage. > Depends on the lang... E.g. the French use it as standard and it's supposed to be a lot better for French. -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 21 20:34:54 2012 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:34:54 -0400 Subject: Printing/CUPS problem Message-ID: I have an MP250 attached to my computer by USB. It is detected by my system, and I can use the scanner just fine. However, when I try to add the printer, it opens a message that says it is searching for drivers, and then I get an error like so: CUPS Server Error: There was an error during the CUPS operation: 'server-error-service-unavailable'. It looks like the CUPS service is not running, so root at rebelone:/home/joehill# /etc/init.d/cups start Starting Common Unix Printing System: cupsd. root at rebelone:/home/joehill# but still the same error. I did a search on the error, and all I came up with were suggestions about network printers. Any tips? Thanks! -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 22 06:00:39 2012 From: mollytournquist-ifvz4xmYPRU at public.gmane.org (Molly Tournquist) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 02:00:39 -0400 Subject: Desktop GUI concept Message-ID: <20120322060040.166420@gmx.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alejandro Imass > Sent: 03/21/12 02:06 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Desktop GUI concept > > On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson > wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Mar 2012, Howard Gibson wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:15:48 -0400 > >> Thomas Milne wrote: > >> > > [...] > > > ? ?Studies do not show that the Dvorak layout gives any significant > > ? ?advantage. > > > > Depends on the lang... E.g. the French use it as standard and it's > supposed to be a lot better for French. > > > -- > Alejandro Imass > -- Dvorak is not for French. That's what Bepo is for. Dvorak just isn't better enough these days, and linux even has built in Colemak support, so it only has an advantage if you're attached to some products of highly proprietary companies that insist on only supporting qwerty and Dvorak. Except if Dvorak's status as the official alternative counts as a meaningful advantage to you. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 22 18:16:23 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AMD gives up? Message-ID: <1332440183.26144.YahooMailNeo@web113408.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Don't you wish they would just come out and admit it? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 22 18:24:25 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:24:25 -0700 Subject: AMD gives up? In-Reply-To: <1332440183.26144.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3MP4eY3Ra60wvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1332440183.26144.YahooMailNeo@web113408.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Depends on what you're looking for. Most gaming kit seems to depend more heavily on RAM+GPU than CPU. For $300, Tiger has a 6-core AMD, 8GB of RAM, 500GB HDD etc. Everything except the OS and a better graphics card. Same page, a quad-core i7 is over $300. That's just the CPU... never mind the case, RAM, HDD, motherboard, etc (and the Intel-compatible mobo's tend to be more too). Yes, the i7 will outperform the AMD for CPU-based computation... but if you want an affordable but decent PC then AMD is definitely still a contender. On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 11:16 AM, William Park wrote: > Don't you wish they would just come out and admit it? > > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA "Computers don't make mistakes. They can, however, execute those provided to them very quickly" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 23 15:33:38 2012 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:33:38 -0400 Subject: Desktop GUI concept In-Reply-To: <20120322060040.166420-KK0ffGbhmjU@public.gmane.org> References: <20120322060040.166420@gmx.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:00 AM, Molly Tournquist wrote: >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Alejandro Imass >> Sent: 03/21/12 02:06 PM >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Desktop GUI concept >> [...] > Dvorak is not for French. That's what Bepo is for. Dvorak just isn't better enough these days, and linux even has built in Colemak support, so it only has an advantage if you're attached to some products of highly proprietary companies that insist on only supporting qwerty and Dvorak. Except if Dvorak's status as the official alternative counts as a meaningful advantage to you. I didn't say it was for French. I said the French (as in France) use it because it's supposed to be better for Latin-based languages. I don't really know if that's true or not, all I know is I did some work in France and Dvorak keyboards were widely used and people there said it was better; some hadn't even seen a qwerty keyboard! I personally found it very perplexing and frustrating coming from the qwerty world. -- Alejandro Imass > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 23 16:04:58 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 12:04:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: AMD gives up? In-Reply-To: References: <1332440183.26144.YahooMailNeo@web113408.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: Tyler Aviss | Yes, the i7 will outperform the AMD for CPU-based computation... but | if you want an affordable but decent PC then AMD is definitely still a | contender. [Note: I have no inside knowledge. This is guesswork on my part.] If they didn't price their chips so low, nobody would buy them. But they price them so low that they don't make money. Not a game that can be played forever. They tried to "pivot" with fusion: OK processors fused with decent video. Good idea. It just hasn't been enough. And it came after too long a delay. - for Linux users, there have been annoying driver problems. + It took a year before the open driver code could handle sound over HDMI. It took reverse engineering rather than the promised AMD disclosure. + the closed source driver has not been updated to match kernel changes in a timely way. + on Ubuntu, my go to distro for closed source driver support, some Ubuntu bug has prevented loading the AMD driver on my HTPC box for many months (six?). - There is a reasonable HTPC niche that Atom + ION filled but the E-350 could have replaced with ease. Didn't happen. Is it because that niche is more apparent than real? Even the Atom + ION offerings seem to have shrunk. - Ditto for the netbook world: the C-60 is a great chip and isn't hobbled by restrictions placed by Intel to protect the market for their higher-end chips. But the netbook market seems to be disappearing. I don't understand why. Perhaps because regular notebooks have become so inexpensive. Maybe they never sold well but vendors pushed them as the next big thing. Perhaps because the mindshare has been taken over by tablets. This one is a real puzzle to me. You really had to look for a C-50 or C-60 based netbook. I bought one last summer. It only cost $229 because the mainline stores (Best Buy / Future Shop, Staples) didn't realize that this was actually a premium device and could not wait to drop it (unlike ordinary netbooks, this had 1280x720 screen, HDMI-out, decent video chip). - One success: a lot of low-end notebooks have E-350 or even E-300 processors. This surprises me since I don't think that they are powerful enough for what I expect of a notebook. - Most scary: Intel's built-in graphics HD-3000 seems quite powerful enough for most ordinary tasks. In a couple of months Intel will introduce new chips with much improved built-in graphics. So AMD's particular edge is going to be diminished. - apparently AMD has had a lot of trouble with the chip foundries. Global Foundries, spun out from AMD years ago, hasn't delivered chip volumes in a timely fashion nor with decent yields. TSMC has had troubles too. AMD just spent a small fortune totally cutting the cord with GF. Intel has their own fabs and is considered to be the industry leader. I feel that we really need an x86 source other than Intel. I think that x86's success is due to how AMD and Intel have pushed each other to greater and greater performance. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 23 16:13:46 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 12:13:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Desktop GUI concept In-Reply-To: References: <20120322060040.166420@gmx.com> Message-ID: | From: Alejandro Imass | On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:00 AM, Molly Tournquist | wrote: | > Dvorak is not for French. That's what Bepo is for. | I didn't say it was for French. I said the French (as in France) use | it because it's supposed to be better for Latin-based languages. I | don't really know if that's true or not, all I know is I did some work | in France and Dvorak keyboards were widely used and people there said | it was better; some hadn't even seen a qwerty keyboard! I personally | found it very perplexing and frustrating coming from the qwerty world. Where we use QWERTY, French use AZERTY. But that isn't Dvorak or Dvorak-fr (or Bepo). I've always (well, for 30 years) called it AZERTY and it seems some others do too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 23 16:57:35 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 12:57:35 -0400 Subject: AMD gives up? In-Reply-To: References: <1332440183.26144.YahooMailNeo@web113408.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hugh, Top posting as I am not responding to any particular paragraph. That was a very good update on what has been happening with AMD. Wish I read last month, I picked up an Intel netbook, I should have shopped around for an AMD netbook. Hope they will stay in the market, else Intel plan for Itanium will be fulfilled, which would be a sad thing. That being said, I think they would not get too comfortable either way because of ARM effect. That company actually seem to be what is influencing their strategies these days Regards, William > > [Note: I have no inside knowledge. ?This is guesswork on my part.] > > If they didn't price their chips so low, nobody would buy them. ?But they > price them so low that they don't make money. ?Not a game that can be > played forever. > > They tried to "pivot" with fusion: OK processors fused with decent video. > Good idea. ?It just hasn't been enough. ?And it came after too long a > delay. > > - for Linux users, there have been annoying driver problems. > > ?+ It took a year before the open driver code could handle sound over > ? ?HDMI. ?It took reverse engineering rather than the promised AMD > ? ?disclosure. > > ?+ the closed source driver has not been updated to match kernel > ? ?changes in a timely way. > > ?+ on Ubuntu, my go to distro for closed source driver support, some > ? ?Ubuntu bug has prevented loading the AMD driver on my HTPC box > ? ?for many months (six?). > > - There is a reasonable HTPC niche that Atom + ION filled but the > ?E-350 could have replaced with ease. ?Didn't happen. ?Is it because > ?that niche is more apparent than real? ?Even the Atom + ION > ?offerings seem to have shrunk. > > - Ditto for the netbook world: the C-60 is a great chip and isn't > ?hobbled by restrictions placed by Intel to protect the market for > ?their higher-end chips. > > ?But the netbook market seems to be disappearing. ?I don't understand > ?why. ?Perhaps because regular notebooks have become so inexpensive. > ?Maybe they never sold well but vendors pushed them as the next big > ?thing. ?Perhaps because the mindshare has been taken over by > ?tablets. ?This one is a real puzzle to me. > > ?You really had to look for a C-50 or C-60 based netbook. ?I bought > ?one last summer. ?It only cost $229 because the mainline stores > ?(Best Buy / Future Shop, Staples) didn't realize that this was > ?actually a premium device and could not wait to drop it (unlike > ?ordinary netbooks, this had 1280x720 screen, HDMI-out, decent video > ?chip). > > > - One success: a lot of low-end notebooks have E-350 or even E-300 > ?processors. ?This surprises me since I don't think that they are > ?powerful enough for what I expect of a notebook. > > - Most scary: Intel's built-in graphics HD-3000 seems quite powerful > ?enough for most ordinary tasks. ?In a couple of months Intel will > ?introduce new chips with much improved built-in graphics. ?So AMD's > ?particular edge is going to be diminished. > > - apparently AMD has had a lot of trouble with the chip foundries. > ?Global Foundries, spun out from AMD years ago, hasn't delivered chip > ?volumes in a timely fashion nor with decent yields. ?TSMC has had > ?troubles too. ?AMD just spent a small fortune totally cutting the > ?cord with GF. ?Intel has their own fabs and is considered to be the > ?industry leader. > > I feel that we really need an x86 source other than Intel. ?I think > that x86's success is due to how AMD and Intel have pushed each other > to greater and greater performance. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 23 21:44:50 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 17:44:50 -0400 Subject: Desktop GUI concept In-Reply-To: References: <20120322060040.166420@gmx.com> Message-ID: <20120323214450.GB10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:13:46PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Where we use QWERTY, French use AZERTY. But that isn't Dvorak or > Dvorak-fr (or Bepo). I've always (well, for 30 years) called it > AZERTY and it seems some others do too. > > Absolutely. Nothing to do with dvorak at all. QWERTY, QWERTZ, AZERTY and QZERTY are all common in europe depending on the language. Some layouts swap Y and Z, some swap A and Q, some swap W and Z, and various combinations of those. Some of them also move around L, M and N (AZERTY for example does that). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 23 21:47:47 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 17:47:47 -0400 Subject: Desktop GUI concept In-Reply-To: References: <20120321093855.c1188f1f.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20120323214747.GC10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 02:06:49PM -0400, Alejandro Imass wrote: > Depends on the lang... E.g. the French use it as standard and it's > supposed to be a lot better for French. I don't think there is any language where Dvorak has ever really become popular. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 23 22:42:08 2012 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 18:42:08 -0400 Subject: Desktop GUI concept In-Reply-To: References: <20120322060040.166420@gmx.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:13 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Alejandro Imass > > | On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:00 AM, Molly Tournquist > | wrote: > > | > Dvorak is not for French. That's what Bepo is for. > > | I didn't say it was for French. I said the French (as in France) use > | it because it's supposed to be better for Latin-based languages. I > | don't really know if that's true or not, all I know is I did some work > | in France and Dvorak keyboards were widely used and people there said > | it was better; some hadn't even seen a qwerty keyboard! I personally > | found it very perplexing and frustrating coming from the qwerty world. > > Where we use QWERTY, French use AZERTY. ?But that isn't Dvorak or > Dvorak-fr (or Bepo). ?I've always (well, for 30 years) called it > AZERTY and it seems some others do too. > You are correct sir, and it is I who am mistaken. Most of the ones I saw were AZERTY keyboards you describe, yet I also encountered the use of funny keyboards with all the vowels stuck together, and they proudly explained they were Dvorak and much easier to type with. Heck, I didn't even know Dvorak until then so I guess I just assumed they were all variations of the Dvorak keyboard, but now I can see they are totally different!! -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 23 23:53:01 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:53:01 -0400 Subject: Binning web advertisers and trackers In-Reply-To: <20120306191129.GA14549-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120306191129.GA14549@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4F6D0CDD.4050204@ve3syb.ca> On 12-03-06 02:11 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Try the "Ghostery" plugin for Firefox > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ghostery/ I recently started using it. It is amazing how many trackers it blocks on any given website. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 24 02:33:41 2012 From: anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Verevkin) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 22:33:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Binning web advertisers and trackers In-Reply-To: <4F6D0CDD.4050204-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4F6D0CDD.4050204@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: > > Try the "Ghostery" plugin for Firefox > > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ghostery/ I was looking for a long time for the ultimate plugin and I found it for myself. But first I tried to describe what I wanted and then I just found a plugin which did that - it is RequestPolicy. What it does is it's stopping the page from loading the content from other domains. Any content. Cause the way tracking works is - you enter the site with legit content and it gives you a cookie. And you are good with it, cause it's a part of your interaction with this site. But then the site is telling you - go check a banner (or even just a one dot picture) from my partners. And your browser goes for it (to google-analytics, etc). And then it interacts with that Ad site and accepts a cookie from it (and at this point it's already not a cross-domain cookie as you requested some content from that site). But the whole thing with getting content from another site which is not the site you were requesting is no good. Yes, the plugin breaks some things, but you then set the exclusions on the SiteA-to-SiteB basis. Works for me. Regards, Anthony -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 24 14:49:10 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 10:49:10 -0400 Subject: Binning web advertisers and trackers In-Reply-To: References: <4F6D0CDD.4050204@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On 23 March 2012 22:33, Anthony Verevkin wrote: >> > ? ?Try the "Ghostery" plugin for Firefox >> > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ghostery/ > > I was looking for a long time for the ultimate plugin and I found it > for myself. But first I tried to describe what I wanted and then I just > found a plugin which did that - it is RequestPolicy. What it does is > it's stopping the page from loading the content from other domains. > Any content. > > Cause the way tracking works is - you enter the site with legit content > and it gives you a cookie. And you are good with it, cause it's a part > of your interaction with this site. But then the site is telling you - > go check a banner (or even just a one dot picture) from my partners. > And your browser goes for it (to google-analytics, etc). And then it > interacts with that Ad site and accepts a cookie from it (and at this > point it's already not a cross-domain cookie as you requested some > content from that site). But the whole thing with getting content from > another site which is not the site you were requesting is no good. > > Yes, the plugin breaks some things, but you then set the exclusions on > the SiteA-to-SiteB basis. Works for me. This is almost exactly what I was looking for, looks great. Thanks Anthony - I've installed it. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 01:52:52 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 21:52:52 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy Message-ID: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> I finally got around to switching to teksavvy from rogers cable. I had been too lazy to bother. I only got cablemodem because Bell didn't offer ADSL when I bought the house 7 years ago, and then it went from 6Mbps to eventually 10Mbps, and ADSL was only 5 or 6Mbps. Well VDSL2 changed that. Free install (during some part of March), and I now have 25Mbps down, and 7Mbps up (speedtest.net confirms it is reliably doing that), for about the same monthly price I was paying rogers for 10Mbps down and 1Mbps up. Quite how cat3 or worse phone line can do that, I am not sure. I had considered moving to teksavvy cablemodem about a year ago, just to get a cheaper service for the same speed and a higher transfer quota per month, but now I am happy I waited. Seeing this is certainly nice: Fetched 62.4 MB in 27s (2,298 kB/s) Makes apt-get updated nice and fast. I have seen it as high as 3000 kB/s. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 04:44:02 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 00:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: <20120325015252.GD10303-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen Thanks for the report of your experience. | Well VDSL2 | changed that. Free install (during some part of March), and I now have | 25Mbps down, and 7Mbps up (speedtest.net confirms it is reliably doing | that), for about the same monthly price I was paying rogers for 10Mbps | down and 1Mbps up. I have common garden variety ADSL from Telnet Communications. I'm not going to change my supplier. But I got a call yesterday saying that I could upgrade to higher speeds and, only this month, dodge installation fees. So I'm considering. Up to 6Mb downstream/800Kb upstream for $39.95/mo <== what I have Up to 12Mb downstream/1Mb upstream for $47.95 Up to 16Mb downstream/1Mb upstream for $57.95 Up to 25Mb downstream/7Mb upstream for $67.95 I think that the first two are ADSL (perhaps ADSL2+). I think that the last two are VDSL2, so I'd need a new modem. It looks to me as if going to the second is a no-brainer. The faster ones, not so clear. The last one really improves the upstream. Any idea if VDSL has operational advantages beyond speed? Reliability? Are the same filters used for ADSL and VDSL? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 04:54:26 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 00:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: <20120325015252.GD10303-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Well VDSL2 | changed that. I forgot to ask: does it use essentially the same PPPoE as ADSL? I use my own router (a PC) to handle the PPPoE for my ADSL and I'd like to continue. Not that I love PPPoE but I don't want to be behind NAT (I have a /24 network routed through my ADSL connection). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 11:52:18 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 07:52:18 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: <20120325015252.GD10303-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4F6F06F2.30903@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Quite how cat3 or worse phone line can do that, I am not sure. Modulation methods have improved greatly over the years and you also have to be close to Bell's fibre. Generally, they'll bring the fibre into your neighborhood and connect to the copper pair into your home. CAT3 has been in common use for many years, though I'm not sure about the overhead drop cables. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 15:17:27 2012 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen Thornton) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:17:27 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: <20120325015252.GD10303-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1332688647.1810.0.camel@crystal> What are your transfer caps? On Sat, 2012-03-24 at 21:52 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I finally got around to switching to teksavvy from rogers cable. > > I had been too lazy to bother. I only got cablemodem because Bell didn't > offer ADSL when I bought the house 7 years ago, and then it went from > 6Mbps to eventually 10Mbps, and ADSL was only 5 or 6Mbps. Well VDSL2 > changed that. Free install (during some part of March), and I now have > 25Mbps down, and 7Mbps up (speedtest.net confirms it is reliably doing > that), for about the same monthly price I was paying rogers for 10Mbps > down and 1Mbps up. > > Quite how cat3 or worse phone line can do that, I am not sure. > > I had considered moving to teksavvy cablemodem about a year ago, just > to get a cheaper service for the same speed and a higher transfer quota > per month, but now I am happy I waited. > > Seeing this is certainly nice: > > Fetched 62.4 MB in 27s (2,298 kB/s) > > Makes apt-get updated nice and fast. I have seen it as high as 3000 kB/s. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 16:02:23 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:02:23 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120325160223.GE10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 12:44:02AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I have common garden variety ADSL from Telnet Communications. I'm not > going to change my supplier. But I got a call yesterday saying that I > could upgrade to higher speeds and, only this month, dodge > installation fees. So I'm considering. Yeah the $95 installation fees being waived is nice. > Up to 6Mb downstream/800Kb upstream for $39.95/mo <== what I have > Up to 12Mb downstream/1Mb upstream for $47.95 > Up to 16Mb downstream/1Mb upstream for $57.95 > Up to 25Mb downstream/7Mb upstream for $67.95 > > I think that the first two are ADSL (perhaps ADSL2+). > I think that the last two are VDSL2, so I'd need a new modem. 25/7 is VDSL2. 12/1 and 16/1 are ADSL2. You can use your own modem for the 12 and 16, but you must rent a cellpipe 7130 from Bell for the 25/7. > It looks to me as if going to the second is a no-brainer. The faster > ones, not so clear. > > The last one really improves the upstream. Yes, quite a bit. > Any idea if VDSL has operational advantages beyond speed? > Reliability? Well since VDSL2 is the Bell Fibe system, it is actually much closer to you thn ADSL is. They run fiber to the node near you and then have the DSLAM equipment there to provide the VDSL2 link to your phone line. So a much shorter haul of analog for the internet bit. VDSL2 can't go nearly as far as ADSL obviously, hence why they had to do it this way to get that kind of speed. When I had ADSL, bell could enable it on a line by moving a cable back at the CO. For VDSL2 they have to come and move a line in the distribution box down the street (which is where the fiber terminates in this case. In some areas you can actually get fiber to your house, but I don't think they do that most places). > Are the same filters used for ADSL and VDSL? Don't need any. There is a line splitter installed near the incoming line that filters. Otherwise yes the same filters would work if they were needed. So the jack running the VDSL2 modem doesn't work for a phone anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 16:05:48 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:05:48 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120325160548.GF10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 12:54:26AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I forgot to ask: does it use essentially the same PPPoE as ADSL? Yes. Exactly the same setup. > I use my own router (a PC) to handle the PPPoE for my ADSL and I'd > like to continue. Not that I love PPPoE but I don't want to be behind > NAT (I have a /24 network routed through my ADSL connection). If you ask the cellpipe 7130 to reset to factory defaults, then go in and disable the wifi and hpna, and do NOT configure the VDSL settings at all, then you can use pppoe from one of the switch ports instead (so my router connect to port 1 on the cellpipe 7130 switch and runs pppoe and it works fine). I didn't want the cellpipe doing wifi and other stuff since I have a much better router already. The cellpipe 7130 has a 4 port switch (don't remember if 100Mbit or gigabit since I didn't care, a 2.4GHz 802.11bgn wifi, and HPNA (television cable connection) for feeding bell TV to receiver boxes in the house for those actually using Fibe TV (which I don't since I am on teksavvy). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 16:07:12 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:07:12 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: <4F6F06F2.30903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F6F06F2.30903@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120325160712.GG10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 07:52:18AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Modulation methods have improved greatly over the years and you also > have to be close to Bell's fibre. Generally, they'll bring the > fibre into your neighborhood and connect to the copper pair into > your home. CAT3 has been in common use for many years, though I'm > not sure about the overhead drop cables. The house is from the mid 1970s, so whatever cable bell put in the ground back then is what is here. Pretty sure the fiber goes to bell's box down the street, so not far. So yes it isn't that long a cable run they are doing high speed on anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 16:08:25 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:08:25 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: <1332688647.1810.0.camel@crystal> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1332688647.1810.0.camel@crystal> Message-ID: <20120325160825.GH10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 11:17:27AM -0400, Maureen Thornton wrote: > What are your transfer caps? 300GB/month. For another $25 or so per month they have a plan that is unlimited. Standard teksavvy quotas. I get the impression they only count peak hours traffic in the cap though, at least looking at the usage info page. I haven't found out what counts as peak yet. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tom-P9LCsnxcr+NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 17:03:24 2012 From: tom-P9LCsnxcr+NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Tom Low-Shang) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:03:24 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: <20120325160825.GH10303-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1332688647.1810.0.camel@crystal> <20120325160825.GH10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120325170324.GC6430@goblin.lowshang.com> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 12:08:25PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I get the impression they only count peak hours traffic in the cap > though, at least looking at the usage info page. I haven't found out > what counts as peak yet. Traffic between 2am and 8am is not counted. -- Tom Low-Shang Cell 416 857 7013 Skype tomlowshang -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 17:06:02 2012 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:06:02 -0400 Subject: Fedora 16 Gnome and KDE - problems with D-bus and Qt Message-ID: I recently installed KDE desktop. Kaffeine seems to run much smoother in the KDE runtime environment. When I start kaffeine in Gnome or KDE I get - QDBusConnection: session D-Bus connection created before QCoreApplication. Application may misbehave. When I select a channel in kaffeine I get - No accelerated IMDCT transform found. Not really a problem except that I occasionally lose sound on a weaker channel. My desktop env shows QT_IM_MODULE=xim Is case sensitivity an issue or should this be set to i-bus or something else/newer in order for X to handle D-bus and Qt properly? After a kernel upgrade to 3.3.0-4.fc16.i686 the KDE crash reporter started working and I got this back trace in respect of the kmixer not working. Application: KMix (kmix), signal: Segmentation fault Using host libthread_db library "/lib/libthread_db.so.1". [Current thread is 1 (Thread 0xb773fa80 (LWP 1750))] Thread 2 (Thread 0xad0ffb40 (LWP 1770)): #0 0x4bd73001 in __GI_clock_gettime (clock_id=1, tp=0xad0fef68) at ../sysdeps/unix/clock_gettime.c:116 #1 0x41a38e06 in do_gettime (frac=0xad0fef60, sec=0xad0fef58) at tools/qelapsedtimer_unix.cpp:123 #2 qt_gettime () at tools/qelapsedtimer_unix.cpp:140 #3 0x41b22bf7 in QTimerInfoList::updateCurrentTime (this=0xac701abc) at kernel/qeventdispatcher_unix.cpp:343 #4 0x41b22f5b in QTimerInfoList::timerWait (this=0xac701abc, tm=...) at kernel/qeventdispatcher_unix.cpp:450 #5 0x41b217a3 in timerSourcePrepareHelper (src=, timeout=0xad0ff06c) at kernel/qeventdispatcher_glib.cpp:136 #6 0x41b2183d in timerSourcePrepare (source=0xac701a88, timeout=) at kernel/qeventdispatcher_glib.cpp:169 #7 0x4be43c4c in g_main_context_prepare (context=0xac700520, priority=0xad0ff0c8) at gmain.c:2762 #8 0x4be44a08 in g_main_context_iterate (context=0xac700520, block=1, dispatch=1, self=0xac700468) at gmain.c:3069 #9 0x4be4501f in g_main_context_iteration (context=0xac700520, may_block=1) at gmain.c:3152 #10 0x41b22317 in QEventDispatcherGlib::processEvents (this=0xac7004a8, flags=...) at kernel/qeventdispatcher_glib.cpp:426 #11 0x41aee4ee in QEventLoop::processEvents (this=0xad0ff200, flags=...) at kernel/qeventloop.cpp:149 #12 0x41aee799 in QEventLoop::exec (this=0xad0ff200, flags=...) at kernel/qeventloop.cpp:204 #13 0x419d6b2c in QThread::exec (this=0x91016f0) at thread/qthread.cpp:501 #14 0x41acb35e in QInotifyFileSystemWatcherEngine::run (this=0x91016f0) at io/qfilesystemwatcher_inotify.cpp:248 #15 0x419da0b1 in QThreadPrivate::start (arg=0x91016f0) at thread/qthread_unix.cpp:298 #16 0x4bd51cd3 in start_thread (arg=0xad0ffb40) at pthread_create.c:309 #17 0x4bc8ea2e in clone () at ../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/i386/clone.S:133 Thread 1 (Thread 0xb773fa80 (LWP 1750)): [KCrash Handler] #7 0x42213ae6 in MDWSlider::update (this=0x90f6680) at /usr/src/debug/kdemultimedia-4.8.1/kmix/gui/mdwslider.cpp:1001 #8 0x4220f523 in ViewDockAreaPopup::refreshVolumeLevels (this=0x90f5f68) at /usr/src/debug/kdemultimedia-4.8.1/kmix/gui/viewdockareapopup.cpp:168 #9 0x4220c113 in qt_static_metacall (_a=0xbff6dd70, _id=3, _o=0x90f5f68, _c=) at /usr/src/debug/kdemultimedia-4.8.1/i686-redhat-linux-gnu/kmix/viewbase.moc:64 #10 ViewBase::qt_static_metacall (_o=0x90f5f68, _c=QMetaObject::InvokeMetaMethod, _id=3, _a=0xbff6dd70) at /usr/src/debug/kdemultimedia-4.8.1/i686-redhat-linux-gnu/kmix/viewbase.moc:55 #11 0x41b04ea1 in QMetaObject::activate (sender=0x906c530, m=0x4224fc28, local_signal_index=1, argv=0x0) at kernel/qobject.cpp:3547 #12 0x4222f766 in Mixer::controlChanged (this=0x906c530) at /usr/src/debug/kdemultimedia-4.8.1/i686-redhat-linux-gnu/kmix/mixer.moc:117 #13 0x41b04ea1 in QMetaObject::activate (sender=0x90ae268, m=0x4224db24, local_signal_index=0, argv=0x0) at kernel/qobject.cpp:3547 #14 0x421e4366 in Mixer_Backend::controlChanged (this=0x90ae268) at /usr/src/debug/kdemultimedia-4.8.1/i686-redhat-linux-gnu/kmix/mixer_backend.moc:107 #15 0x421e4670 in Mixer_Backend::readSetFromHW (this=0x90ae268) at /usr/src/debug/kdemultimedia-4.8.1/kmix/backends/mixer_backend.cpp:155 #16 0x421f147b in Mixer_PULSE::triggerUpdate (this=0x90ae268) at /usr/src/debug/kdemultimedia-4.8.1/kmix/backends/mixer_pulse.cpp:1286 #17 0x421f7e15 in sink_cb (c=0x90b1160, i=0x0, eol=1) at /usr/src/debug/kdemultimedia-4.8.1/kmix/backends/mixer_pulse.cpp:191 #18 0x44184c51 in context_get_sink_info_callback (pd=0x8f4b208, command=2, tag=405, t=0x90cad20, userdata=0x90b2918) at pulse/introspect.c:263 #19 0x4414123e in run_action (pd=0x8f4b208, r=0x90b2ca0, command=2, ts=0x90cad20) at pulsecore/pdispatch.c:274 #20 0x44141640 in pa_pdispatch_run (pd=0x8f4b208, packet=0x918e920, creds=0x90805b0, userdata=0x90b1160) at pulsecore/pdispatch.c:326 #21 0x4417c87e in pstream_packet_callback (p=0x90804e8, packet=0x918e920, creds=0x90805b0, userdata=0x90b1160) at pulse/context.c:346 #22 0x44146ca3 in do_read (p=0x90804e8) at pulsecore/pstream.c:816 #23 do_something (p=0x90804e8) at pulsecore/pstream.c:184 #24 0x44130fe3 in callback (m=0x90b3014, e=0x90dfe00, fd=11, f=PA_IO_EVENT_INPUT, userdata=0x8fea9b0) at pulsecore/iochannel.c:119 #25 0x424dcb7a in dispatch_func (source=0x90b2fe0, callback=0, userdata=0x0) at pulse/glib-mainloop.c:585 #26 0x4be4462f in g_main_dispatch (context=0x8e9a470) at gmain.c:2441 #27 g_main_context_dispatch (context=0x8e9a470) at gmain.c:3011 #28 0x4be44d70 in g_main_context_iterate (context=0x8e9a470, block=1273313296, dispatch=1, self=0x8e9a678) at gmain.c:3089 #29 0x4be4501f in g_main_context_iteration (context=0x8e9a470, may_block=1) at gmain.c:3152 #30 0x41b222b8 in QEventDispatcherGlib::processEvents (this=0x8e6e740, flags=...) at kernel/qeventdispatcher_glib.cpp:424 #31 0x43055a9b in QGuiEventDispatcherGlib::processEvents (this=0x8e6e740, flags=...) at kernel/qguieventdispatcher_glib.cpp:207 #32 0x41aee4ee in QEventLoop::processEvents (this=0xbff6e8a4, flags=...) at kernel/qeventloop.cpp:149 #33 0x41aee799 in QEventLoop::exec (this=0xbff6e8a4, flags=...) at kernel/qeventloop.cpp:204 #34 0x41af393b in QCoreApplication::exec () at kernel/qcoreapplication.cpp:1148 #35 0x42f9ef35 in QApplication::exec () at kernel/qapplication.cpp:3811 #36 0x421fdeb3 in kdemain (argc=3, argv=0xbff6eb04) at /usr/src/debug/kdemultimedia-4.8.1/kmix/apps/main.cpp:76 #37 0x0804861c in main (argc=3, argv=0xbff6eb04) at /usr/src/debug/kdemultimedia-4.8.1/i686-redhat-linux-gnu/kmix/kmix_dummy.cpp:3 Oddly enough I can't start selinux troubleshooter from the desktop icon, however it does occasionally pop up with an error. It popped up and suggested this grep colord /var/log/audit/audit.log | audit2allow -M mypol semodule -i mypol.pp Which I ran and kmix which wasn't able to run on the desktop does run, selinux however does not. Any suggestions in aid of a solution appreciated. Russell -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 17:26:20 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:26:20 -0400 Subject: TASK Meeting on working in Information Security... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This month's TASK (Toronto Area Security Klatch) meeting will deal with "Working in IS - The Skills You REALLY Need" >From their website here is the summary of the planned meeting: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wednesday, 28 March 2012 6:00PM ? 9:00PM Leslie Dan Pharmacy Building, University of Toronto 144 College Street ? Room PB B150 Topic 1: Executive Roundtable Spring is here, and information security companies are hiring! ?Senior executives from local security companies (CMS Consulting, DigitalDefence, eSentire, SentryMetrics) will be presenting their perspective on how successfully enter the market. ?The discussion will cover subjects such as: ? ?The state of the local (GTA) security market, as well as Canada overall. ? ?The different types of security jobs available. ? ?How do you find the entry level jobs? ? ?What are security companies looking for? ? ?Education and certifications.... what do you need? ? ?Interviewing for a job (and yes, including resumes) ? ?I don't have experience, and all of the jobs are asking for "experience?... Make sure you come prepared to ask questions and participate - the goal of the roundtable is to help you identify the security marketplace, and your role as a "product" in the marketplace. Topic 2: Positioning yourself as a "Security Product" - A Practical Approach Michelle Warren (mwresearch.ca) The ability to communicate well is critical to the success any job. You must be able to express yourself both confidently and effectively. Without that winning combination, it can be almost impossible to break into the information security market. ?And once you're there, it is fundamental in demonstrating your value to an organization or to members of your team. Michelle Warren will be presenting a dynamic, informative, and interactive mini-workshop to help you position yourself. As a professional communications coach with over 10 years of leading workshops and seminars, she uses her IT industry experience to help IT individuals to set and achieve goals, communicate more effectively, and be more productive at work. ?In addition, she is a pioneer in the use of social networking tools to help individuals with marketing, branding, and self-promotion. ?She is excited to be working again with TASK members to help with career development and hone their communication skills. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Beyond what is noted above, the meetings are free to attend. I have found average turnout at a TASK meeting is about 75 people (and these meetings are held in a large lecture hall). Something that threw me the first time I went to a TASK meeting, the B in the room number indicates "basement", so when you come into the building you will be looking for either the stairs (or if you have mobility issues), elevator down. The lecture hall is new enough that if you want to plug in a laptop to keep notes, you will find that most (not quite all) of the seats have a 110 volt AC plug built into the armrest. Map and further details can be seen here: http://www.task.to/calendar/vw/3/itemid/81/d/20120328.aspx -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tom-P9LCsnxcr+NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 18:10:59 2012 From: tom-P9LCsnxcr+NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Tom Low-Shang) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 14:10:59 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: <20120325160223.GE10303-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120325160223.GE10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120325181059.GD6430@goblin.lowshang.com> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 12:02:23PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > 25/7 is VDSL2. 12/1 and 16/1 are ADSL2. You can use your own modem > for the 12 and 16, but you must rent a cellpipe 7130 from Bell for the > 25/7. The single vendor lock-in for the modem is the main reason I went with the 16Mb service. > Well since VDSL2 is the Bell Fibe system, it is actually much closer > to you thn ADSL is. They run fiber to the node near you and then have > the DSLAM equipment there to provide the VDSL2 link to your phone > line. So a much shorter haul of analog for the internet bit. VDSL2 > can't go nearly as far as ADSL obviously, hence why they had to do it > this way to get that kind of speed. Most people on 12 or 16Mb ADSL2 service are also connected to a remote DSLAM. The remotes are not exclusively for VDSL. -- Tom Low-Shang Cell 416 857 7013 Skype tomlowshang -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 18:26:27 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 14:26:27 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: <20120325181059.GD6430-RqvtDOqfSGaKV7X0E1fEy0EOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120325160223.GE10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120325181059.GD6430@goblin.lowshang.com> Message-ID: <20120325182627.GI10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 02:10:59PM -0400, Tom Low-Shang wrote: > The single vendor lock-in for the modem is the main reason I went with > the 16Mb service. I figure if I am upgrading, I might as well get decent upstream speed finally. I imagine at some point VDSL2 modems will actually be available for sale as well. > Most people on 12 or 16Mb ADSL2 service are also connected to a remote > DSLAM. The remotes are not exclusively for VDSL. That does make some sense. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 25 18:38:03 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 14:38:03 -0400 Subject: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: <4F693418.9030205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F6F660B.2060905@ve3syb.ca> On 12-03-21 09:09 AM, charles chris wrote: > I can connect to my wep wireless connection in Windows but NOT in Linux. > > Linux keeps asking for password and will NOT authenticate [snip] > I need a solution before Thursday March 22, 2012 Did you get your problem solved in time or did you have to resort to putting Windows on the machine? > I wish Linux was more like Windows in that most things work straight out of > the box, especially the installation of device drivers. I have usually found Ubuntu does a decent job of getting the support right for devices unless you have something quite new. The main problem regarding device drivers is due to hardware manufacturers being unable or unwilling to consider making drivers available for other than Windows (and Mac). If they also do not want to give out details of the hardware to make it easy (or easier) to for someone else to write a driver, the Linux user suffers. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 02:57:17 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:57:17 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: <20120325182627.GI10303-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120325160223.GE10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120325181059.GD6430@goblin.lowshang.com> <20120325182627.GI10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4F6FDB0D.3000007@ss.org> On 03/25/2012 02:26 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 02:10:59PM -0400, Tom Low-Shang wrote: >> The single vendor lock-in for the modem is the main reason I went with >> the 16Mb service. > > I figure if I am upgrading, I might as well get decent upstream speed > finally. I imagine at some point VDSL2 modems will actually be available > for sale as well. I'm not so optimistic. There is apparently a Bug in the DSLAMs Bell is using that makes the current model VDSL2 modem the only one that works with them. A co-worker of mine had made an attempt to use a independent VDSL2 modem with the service without success. But this may change over a longer time. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 13:11:46 2012 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:11:46 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: <4F6FDB0D.3000007-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120325160223.GE10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120325181059.GD6430@goblin.lowshang.com> <20120325182627.GI10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F6FDB0D.3000007@ss.org> Message-ID: <20120326131146.GA5182@watson-wilson.ca> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 10:57:17PM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: >I'm not so optimistic. There is apparently a Bug in the DSLAMs Bell >is using that makes the current model VDSL2 modem the only one that >works with them. A co-worker of mine had made an attempt to use a >independent VDSL2 modem with the service without success. I spoke with a colleague, who runs a small ISP. He told me that the modem lock-in is a Bell flimflam and that there will be a CRTC hearing about it later this year. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 14:09:50 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:09:50 -0400 Subject: Finally on teksavvy In-Reply-To: <20120326131146.GA5182-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120325160223.GE10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120325181059.GD6430@goblin.lowshang.com> <20120325182627.GI10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F6FDB0D.3000007@ss.org> <20120326131146.GA5182@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4F7078AE.5010101@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 10:57:17PM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: >> I'm not so optimistic. There is apparently a Bug in the DSLAMs Bell >> is using that makes the current model VDSL2 modem the only one that >> works with them. A co-worker of mine had made an attempt to use a >> independent VDSL2 modem with the service without success. > > I spoke with a colleague, who runs a small ISP. He told me that the > modem lock-in is a Bell flimflam and that there will be a CRTC hearing > about it later this year. > Hopefully that hearing will extend to Rogers. They currently supply a couple of DOCSIS 3 modem/routers, which do not have a reputation for quality. It is possible, but very difficult to get them to connect to other DOCSIS 3 modems. Again, this is due to an arbitrary decision by Rogers and not due to technical reasons. After all the driving force behind DOCSIS was to have a common standard and get away from supplier dependencies. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 15:20:57 2012 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:20:57 -0400 Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader Message-ID: Hello All, I bought an iPad for my wife a few months ago. The only thing she liked about it was the iBooks app and how easy it was to read and turn pages. Is there an Android app that has the same look and feel as iBooks? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 15:30:06 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:30:06 +0000 Subject: Android Friendly 3.3 Kernel Message-ID: This appears to be good news.... http://www.itworldcanada.com/news/android-friendly-linux-3-3-released/145095?sub=601139&utm_source=601139&utm_medium=top5&utm_campaign=TD+ John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 15:37:15 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:37:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F708D2B.2040200@rogers.com> On 12-03-26 11:20 AM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Hello All, > I bought an iPad for my wife a few months ago. The only thing she > liked about it was the iBooks app and how easy it was to read and turn > pages. > > Is there an Android app that has the same look and feel as iBooks? I have an ASUS Eee Transformer. The standard eBook reader works very well. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 15:50:45 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:50:45 -0400 Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Hello All, > I bought an iPad for my wife a few months ago. The only thing she > liked about it was the iBooks app and how easy it was to read and turn > pages. > > Is there an Android app that has the same look and feel as iBooks? There are a number of book readers on Android; their makers would presumably get hit with "cease and desist" lawsuits from a demonstrably litigious company were their "look and feel" to be excessively similar to that of said litigious company's application. Thus, I think that few Android application makers would be so stupid as to produce something that tries to behave identically to iBooks. I most frequently find myself using FBReader, which has versions running on a number of platforms. http://www.fbreader.org/ I do not know how similar it is to iBooks; I do find that I like its UI reasonably well. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 16:02:43 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:02:43 +0200 Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Hello All, > > I bought an iPad for my wife a few months ago. The only thing she > > liked about it was the iBooks app and how easy it was to read and turn > > pages. > > > > Is there an Android app that has the same look and feel as iBooks? > > There are a number of book readers on Android; their makers would > presumably get hit with "cease and desist" lawsuits from a > demonstrably litigious company were their "look and feel" to be > excessively similar to that of said litigious company's application. > > Thus, I think that few Android application makers would be so stupid > as to produce something that tries to behave identically to iBooks. > > I most frequently find myself using FBReader, which has versions > running on a number of platforms. http://www.fbreader.org/ I do not > know how similar it is to iBooks; I do find that I like its UI > reasonably well. > > I use LumiRead on my Acer iconia tablet. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 18:08:36 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:08:36 -0400 Subject: Android Friendly 3.3 Kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120326180836.GJ10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 03:30:06PM +0000, john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > This appears to be good news.... > > http://www.itworldcanada.com/news/android-friendly-linux-3-3-released/145095?sub=601139&utm_source=601139&utm_medium=top5&utm_campaign=TD+ It's a good start. I don't get the impression that Google was much help in that though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 18:50:39 2012 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:50:39 -0400 Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do they all have the "page turning" effect like iBooks? I know it sounds stupid, but it does add to the experience of reading. On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Ori Idan wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Christopher Browne > wrote: >> >> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> > Hello All, >> > I bought an iPad for my wife a few months ago. The only thing she >> > liked about it was the iBooks app and how easy it was to read and turn >> > pages. >> > >> > Is there an Android app that has the same look and feel as iBooks? >> >> There are a number of book readers on Android; their makers would >> presumably get hit with "cease and desist" lawsuits from a >> demonstrably litigious company were their "look and feel" to be >> excessively similar to that of said litigious company's application. >> >> Thus, I think that few Android application makers would be so stupid >> as to produce something that tries to behave identically to iBooks. >> >> I most frequently find myself using FBReader, which has versions >> running on a number of platforms. ?http://www.fbreader.org/ ? I do not >> know how similar it is to iBooks; I do find that I like its UI >> reasonably well. >> > > I use LumiRead on my Acer iconia tablet. > > -- > Ori Idan > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 18:53:12 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:53:12 +0200 Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Do they all have the "page turning" effect like iBooks? > I know it sounds stupid, but it does add to the experience of reading. > I have never seen iBooks so I don't know the page turning effect it has. LumiRead (that I use) have a page turning effect. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 20:08:05 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:08:05 -0400 Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F70CCA5.4000609@ve3syb.ca> On 12-03-26 02:50 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Do they all have the "page turning" effect like iBooks? I don't know how you turn pages in an iBook reader. On the (Android based) Sony PRS-T1 eReader device I have, I just use a finger (or stylus) to swipe from right to left to advance to the next page (or the opposite direction to go to the previous page). -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 21:06:19 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:06:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Ansar Mohammed | I bought an iPad for my wife a few months ago. The only thing she | liked about it was the iBooks app and how easy it was to read and turn | pages. If the only thing your are doing is reading books (you didn't say that exactly), and the books don't have colour pictures, then I really think that the e-ink readers are a much better choice than an iPad or similar tablet. Obvious wins: - much less expensive - lighter - thinner - battery lasts a LOT longer (month vs. days) Loses: - cannot do colour which would be nice for some books - 10" screen (of iPad and other tablets) is nicer than 6", especially for PDFs - screen refresh is quite slow. OK for page turning but impossible to do the liquid zooming and panning that is possible on iPad. Animation (like iBook in page turning) isn't possible. - cannot reasonably run a web browser There are many ebook reader programs in Google Play (the new name for Android Market). The most prominent are tied to particular DRM platforms. Google Play Books, Kindle (Amazon), Kobo (several, including Chapters Indigo), Nook (Barnes and Noble) all come to mind. (Did I mention that I hate DRM?) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 21:27:10 2012 From: cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Charles Philip Chan) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:27:10 -0400 Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader In-Reply-To: (Ansar Mohammed's message of "Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:50:39 -0400") References: Message-ID: Ansar Mohammed writes: > Do they all have the "page turning" effect like iBooks? A number of them do. Currently I use Moon+ Reader, but once the Open Sourced CoolReader have epub TOC support- I will switch to it. Charles -- "Whip me. Beat me. Make me maintain AIX." (By Stephan Zielinski) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 26 23:13:50 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:13:50 +0000 Subject: Android Friendly 3.3 Kernel In-Reply-To: <20120326180836.GJ10303-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: ,<20120326180836.GJ10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:08:36 -0400 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Android Friendly 3.3 Kernel > From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org > > On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 03:30:06PM +0000, john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > This appears to be good news.... > > > > http://www.itworldcanada.com/news/android-friendly-linux-3-3-released/145095?sub=601139&utm_source=601139&utm_medium=top5&utm_campaign=TD+ > > It's a good start. > > I don't get the impression that Google was much help in that though. It made mention that the effort was to Google's benefit. John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 27 12:31:20 2012 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:31:20 -0400 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <20120308000721.GH14855-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> <20120307234205.GG14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120308000721.GH14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 7:07 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Mar 07, 2012 at 07:01:46PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >> Setting up the bridge adapter for one. > > Default kvm doesn't use one. > > Default is host nat interface. > > So if you happen to want bridging on some interface (how the distribution > should know I have no idea), then you can set that up. > > I find that distributions that try to guess what I want tend to break > things. ?If they ask, I can help with the right answer of course. > > -- > Len Sorensen Len, This http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Networking link suggests that using host nat interface while being the default is the slowest. I am wondering why you would suggest this ? Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 27 12:55:51 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:55:51 -0400 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> <20120307234205.GG14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120308000721.GH14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4F71B8D7.6000206@utoronto.ca> On 12-03-27 08:31 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 7:07 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 07, 2012 at 07:01:46PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: >>> Setting up the bridge adapter for one. >> >> Default kvm doesn't use one. >> >> Default is host nat interface. >> >> So if you happen to want bridging on some interface (how the distribution >> should know I have no idea), then you can set that up. >> >> I find that distributions that try to guess what I want tend to break >> things. If they ask, I can help with the right answer of course. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen > > > Len, > > This http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Networking link suggests that using > host nat interface while being the default is the slowest. > > I am wondering why you would suggest this ? NAT out of the box isn't going to mess with your host's networking to the point of breaking it. Anything else, like Lennart pointed out, all bets are off. A packager has no way of knowing what your network interfaces look like e.g. do you want a bridge on eth0, eth0, tun0, wlan0? That and bridged networking entails promiscuous mode as I pointed out, which may not be suitable for some environments. NAT is the low hanging fruit and gets a working virtualization stack up and running with minimal effort on the packager's and user's behalves. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 27 12:56:22 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:56:22 -0400 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> <20120307234205.GG14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120308000721.GH14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120327125622.GK10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 08:31:20AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > This http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Networking link suggests that using > host nat interface while being the default is the slowest. > > I am wondering why you would suggest this ? Because it is simple, doesn't require root, and is the default. Yes it is the slowest, so if high throughput networking is important (often it isn't), then you want to do one of the other options. Setting up bridging if needed isn't hard at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 27 13:31:02 2012 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 09:31:02 -0400 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: <20120327125622.GK10303-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> <20120307234205.GG14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120308000721.GH14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120327125622.GK10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 08:31:20AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> This http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Networking link suggests that using >> host nat interface while being the default is the slowest. >> >> I am wondering why you would suggest this ? > > Because it is simple, doesn't require root, and is the default. > > Yes it is the slowest, so if high throughput networking is important > (often it isn't), then you want to do one of the other options. > > Setting up bridging if needed isn't hard at all. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Fair enough One more question: is it possible to mix bridged and nat'd guests on the same host ? Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 27 15:21:42 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:21:42 -0500 Subject: I need help getting Trendnet TEW-421PC PCMCIA card to function properly in Linux Mint 9 LXDE before Thursday March 22, 2012 In-Reply-To: <4F6F660B.2060905-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4F693418.9030205@gmail.com> <4F6F660B.2060905@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: I have been experimenting with Linux by creating images deployable on almost anything. My goal is to resurrect OLD near DEAD PC and Mac hardware with new up to date software! Thus the terms, Frank-Intel and Franken-Tosh. Checkout my short video: http://drpcdr.ca/frank_intel_franken_tosh/frank_intel_franken_tosh.html http://www.drpcdr.ca/pics/HP_Omnibook_6000.jpg http://www.drpcdr.ca/pics/IBM_Thinkpad_600X.jpg http://www.drpcdr.ca/pics/2006_Macbook.jpg http://drpcdr.ca/mac_story/mac_story.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had too many problems with the Wireless on the HP Omnibook. It proved to be unreliable! So I did what I had suggested to the customer from day 0. I reduced the repair bill by $20.00 and removed the PCMCIA wireless network adapter. On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 12-03-21 09:09 AM, charles chris wrote: > >> I can connect to my wep wireless connection in Windows but NOT in Linux. >> >> Linux keeps asking for password and will NOT authenticate >> > [snip] > > I need a solution before Thursday March 22, 2012 >> > > Did you get your problem solved in time or did you have to resort to > putting Windows on the machine? > > > I wish Linux was more like Windows in that most things work straight out >> of >> the box, especially the installation of device drivers. >> > > I have usually found Ubuntu does a decent job of getting the support right > for devices unless you have something quite new. The main problem regarding > device drivers is due to hardware manufacturers being unable or unwilling > to consider making drivers available for other than Windows (and Mac). If > they also do not want to give out details of the hardware to make it easy > (or easier) to for someone else to write a driver, the Linux user suffers. > > -- > Cheers! > > Kevin. > > http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that > distract > Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're > | powerful!" > #include | --Chris Hardwick > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 27 16:29:33 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:29:33 -0400 Subject: VDSL2 on the Bell DSL network. (Was: Finally on teksavvy) In-Reply-To: <20120326131146.GA5182-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120325015252.GD10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120325160223.GE10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120325181059.GD6430@goblin.lowshang.com> <20120325182627.GI10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4F6FDB0D.3000007@ss.org> <20120326131146.GA5182@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4F71EAED.8070902@ss.org> On 03/26/2012 09:11 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 10:57:17PM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: >> I'm not so optimistic. There is apparently a Bug in the DSLAMs Bell is >> using that makes the current model VDSL2 modem the only one that works >> with them. A co-worker of mine had made an attempt to use a >> independent VDSL2 modem with the service without success. > > I spoke with a colleague, who runs a small ISP. He told me that the > modem lock-in is a Bell flimflam and that there will be a CRTC hearing > about it later this year. > I did some digging into this. The Alcatel 7330 ISAM is the VDSL2 slam that Bell has been deploying for the last few years to provide the FTTN (VDSL2 / 25Mbps) Service to customers. The majority of those slams out there are running a pre-finalized version of the VDSL2 spec which they got wrong. This is the reason only Bell's provided modems will work. Working for an Independent DSL ISP, I can say that I do see the 7330 as a very common equipment type for many customer and I've not yet seen a an FTTN (> 6Mbps) on anything else (*). This document[2] lists a 7330 ISLAM safe mode as a feature, providing some evidence to support this. [1]: http://broadbandsoho.com/FTTx/Alcatel_7330_ISAM.pdf [2]: http://www.oracul.kiev.ua/pdf/41_Prelim_6_06_rev400.pdf (*) The 7330 also do ADSL2+, which is anything below 25Mbps without a 7Mbps upload. If anyone can find an independent VDSL2 modem that works with these SLAMs I would very much like to know. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 27 16:30:15 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:30:15 -0400 Subject: server distros In-Reply-To: References: <1331154858.17543.YahooMailNeo@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4F57DC83.8060505@rogers.com> <20120307234205.GG14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120308000721.GH14855@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120327125622.GK10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120327163015.GL10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 09:31:02AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > Fair enough > > One more question: is it possible to mix bridged and nat'd guests on > the same host ? Sure. Each kvm/qemu instace get to specify their own network choices. If they want to tap to a bridge, they can, if they want to do nat (the default) they can. If they want to use vde, they can. I have run all three on one host machine. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 13:48:43 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:48:43 -0400 Subject: How important is TXT and VT-d? Message-ID: My desktop is getting a little long in the tooth and I'm thinking about eventually replacing it with a laptop. I'd like the laptop to be an i7 quad core - which probably means either poor battery life or a very heavy battery, but that's okay as it would mostly be a desktop replacement rather than something to carry around. Right at the moment the majority of readily available laptops that have a quad core Intel have the Core i7 2670QM processor, which according to Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors ) doesn't support TXT or Intel VT-d. Given that the first thing I'd do is install Linux on the thing, the loss of TXT doesn't sound too onerous (correct me if I'm wrong, that's why I'm sending this email). The other part, VT-d ... as I read it, that means I'd have VT-x, but virtual machines wouldn't have direct access to hardware. Am I reading this correctly? And, given that I've never used processor level virtualization before and, honestly, I might never (but would like to have the option), should I really care about this? There are a couple other quad core i7s commonly available on the consumer market, but they're also lacking TXT and VT-d so this question doesn't seem likely to go away. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 15:07:06 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:07:06 -0400 Subject: How important is TXT and VT-d? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120328150706.GM10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:48:43AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > My desktop is getting a little long in the tooth and I'm thinking > about eventually replacing it with a laptop. I'd like the laptop to > be an i7 quad core - which probably means either poor battery life or > a very heavy battery, but that's okay as it would mostly be a desktop > replacement rather than something to carry around. Right at the > moment the majority of readily available laptops that have a quad core > Intel have the Core i7 2670QM processor, which according to Wikipedia > ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors > ) doesn't support TXT or Intel VT-d. Given that the first thing I'd > do is install Linux on the thing, the loss of TXT doesn't sound too > onerous (correct me if I'm wrong, that's why I'm sending this email). > The other part, VT-d ... as I read it, that means I'd have VT-x, but > virtual machines wouldn't have direct access to hardware. Am I > reading this correctly? And, given that I've never used processor > level virtualization before and, honestly, I might never (but would > like to have the option), should I really care about this? VT-d is really only useful if you want to give a physical piece of hardware to a virtual machine. So if you wanted to dedicate a PCI network card to a virtual machine and not have the host machine use it, VT-d allows that to be done. I have no idea why anyone would need TXT for anything other than DRM. > There are a couple other quad core i7s commonly available on the > consumer market, but they're also lacking TXT and VT-d so this > question doesn't seem likely to go away. I consider the CPU virtualization extensions essential. The device virtualization extensions (vt-d) are merely interesting, but far from essential. Now if you needed to dedicate a piece of hardware to a VM you would probably consider it essential. Of course you can already assign a USB device to a virtual machine as far as I remember without any need for VT-d which I consider to cover the cases I would care about. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 15:36:01 2012 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:36:01 -0400 Subject: Undeleteable file??? Message-ID: Hello all, I've deleted a file (rm -f filename) but it keeps showing up with ls. When I try to edit it with vi I get a new file and can even create a second file with the same name. Both files show up with ls. Permissions are 644. Owner is root:root and I'm logged in as root. Has anybody else seen this? The machine is using CentOS 5.7 if that helps. Thanks, Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 15:45:02 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 11:45:02 -0400 Subject: Undeleteable file??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120328154502.GN10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 11:36:01AM -0400, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > I've deleted a file (rm -f filename) but it keeps showing up with ls. > When I try to edit it with vi I get a new file and can even create a > second file with the same name. Both files show up with ls. Permissions > are 644. Owner is root:root and I'm logged in as root. > > Has anybody else seen this? > The machine is using CentOS 5.7 if that helps. Are you sure the filename doesn't end in a space or something? Does rm without -f work for that filename? How about: rm -i filename* -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 15:54:18 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:54:18 -0700 Subject: Undeleteable file??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: does the modified date change after deletion? On Mar 28, 2012 8:44 AM, "Stephen W. Clarke" wrote: > Hello all, > > I've deleted a file (rm -f filename) but it keeps showing up with ls. > When I try to edit it with vi I get a new file and can even create a > second file with the same name. Both files show up with ls. Permissions > are 644. Owner is root:root and I'm logged in as root. > > Has anybody else seen this? > The machine is using CentOS 5.7 if that helps. > > Thanks, > Stephen > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 16:18:13 2012 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 12:18:13 -0400 Subject: Undeleteable file??? In-Reply-To: <20120328154502.GN10303-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20120328154502.GN10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Len, That did it! Thanks. I will now review the -i tag for rm. :) Stephen > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 11:36:01AM -0400, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: >> I've deleted a file (rm -f filename) but it keeps showing up with ls. >> When I try to edit it with vi I get a new file and can even create a >> second file with the same name. Both files show up with ls. Permissions >> are 644. Owner is root:root and I'm logged in as root. >> >> Has anybody else seen this? >> The machine is using CentOS 5.7 if that helps. > > Are you sure the filename doesn't end in a space or something? > > Does rm without -f work for that filename? > > How about: > > rm -i filename* > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > ____________________ Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 17:32:45 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 13:32:45 -0400 Subject: Undeleteable file??? In-Reply-To: References: <20120328154502.GN10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120328173245.GO10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 12:18:13PM -0400, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > Len, > > That did it! Thanks. > I will now review the -i tag for rm. :) interactive. I think you had a space at the end of the filename, so rm -f filename didn't delete anything. rm filename should have said 'no such file'. Quite likely rm "filename " would have worked. So perfectly deletable as long as you specify the actual filename. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 17:46:24 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:46:24 +0000 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: OK, so there's a lot of egg on my face right now. I can only excuse myself for the fact that I'm fresh out of surgery convalescing at home and enjoying the effects that diminishing drug levels have in my brain function. At least I don't think I offended anyone - hope I didn't. If so, an apology would be probably ineffectual at this point. John. From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org To: daniel.moniz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Subject: FW: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:36:30 +0000 Hi Daniel; I don't know if you might be interested in joining this session. If nothing else, it may give you ideas of some items to research. I should warn you that the value of some of these sessions can sometimes be degraded by members of the audience who love to tell everyone how they do things and derail the presentation; or the presenter goes in there winging it and is totally unprepared. At other times, the sessions are great. A lot depends on the skill of the presenter and these guys are volunteers. I've only been to a couple of these, so most of what I'm saying is hearsay and may be old information. Dad. > Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:38:46 -0400 > Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm > From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > To: tlug-announce-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > # U Got Some Tubes In Ur Webs with _Scott Elcomb_ > > In this talk, Scott will walk you through a rabbit hole and into a > strange new world wide web. Discussion will include in-browser system > virtualization & emulation, browser-based P2P networks & > anti-censorship routing, and building distributed computing and > massively multiuser worlds into your web pages. Specific technologies > to be covered include Node.js, JS/Linux, Atomic OS, a decade-old > research OS from Nintendo, Web Workers, WebRTC and WebGL. > > ## Location > > Room GB248, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto > 35 St George St Toronto, Ontario M5S 3G8 > > or > > Parking at Galbraith: . > > ## Schedule > > * 6:00 pm - There is a get together of GTALUGers at Pho 88 restaurant > 270 Spadina Ave (South of Dundas) for food and socializing. > Information and Parking: . > * 7:30 pm - Meeting and presentation. > * 9:00 pm - After each meeting (at 9:00 pm) a group of GTALUGers > move to the GSU Pub for beverages and more socializing. > > Retrieved from: > > -- > Myles Braithwaite > http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 17:58:47 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:58:47 +0000 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: ,, Message-ID: My brain is mush. This was suppose to be targeted at specific individuals. I think I have to stop emailing for a few days before I cause bad damage to myself. From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: RE: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:46:24 +0000 OK, so there's a lot of egg on my face right now. I can only excuse myself for the fact that I'm fresh out of surgery convalescing at home and enjoying the effects that diminishing drug levels have in my brain function. At least I don't think I offended anyone - hope I didn't. If so, an apology would be probably ineffectual at this point. John. From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org To: daniel.moniz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Subject: FW: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:36:30 +0000 Hi Daniel; I don't know if you might be interested in joining this session. If nothing else, it may give you ideas of some items to research. I should warn you that the value of some of these sessions can sometimes be degraded by members of the audience who love to tell everyone how they do things and derail the presentation; or the presenter goes in there winging it and is totally unprepared. At other times, the sessions are great. A lot depends on the skill of the presenter and these guys are volunteers. I've only been to a couple of these, so most of what I'm saying is hearsay and may be old information. Dad. > Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:38:46 -0400 > Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm > From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > To: tlug-announce-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > # U Got Some Tubes In Ur Webs with _Scott Elcomb_ > > In this talk, Scott will walk you through a rabbit hole and into a > strange new world wide web. Discussion will include in-browser system > virtualization & emulation, browser-based P2P networks & > anti-censorship routing, and building distributed computing and > massively multiuser worlds into your web pages. Specific technologies > to be covered include Node.js, JS/Linux, Atomic OS, a decade-old > research OS from Nintendo, Web Workers, WebRTC and WebGL. > > ## Location > > Room GB248, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto > 35 St George St Toronto, Ontario M5S 3G8 > > or > > Parking at Galbraith: . > > ## Schedule > > * 6:00 pm - There is a get together of GTALUGers at Pho 88 restaurant > 270 Spadina Ave (South of Dundas) for food and socializing. > Information and Parking: . > * 7:30 pm - Meeting and presentation. > * 9:00 pm - After each meeting (at 9:00 pm) a group of GTALUGers > move to the GSU Pub for beverages and more socializing. > > Retrieved from: > > -- > Myles Braithwaite > http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 18:29:54 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:29:54 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey John, Don't sweat it. Personally, I thought you were pretty accurate. It's a tough crowd. Enjoy what's left of your meds. ;-) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 19:13:16 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:13:16 -0400 Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F7362CC.107@ve3syb.ca> On 12-03-26 05:06 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Loses: > > - 10" screen (of iPad and other tablets) is nicer than 6", especially for > PDFs 6" is fine if you don't mind small print or if the reader can autocrop some (or all) of the whitespace from the outside edge of the pages. A 7" device (possibly aided with auto-cropping?) would be about the same as if you were looking at a standard sized (small) paper back book. > - screen refresh is quite slow. OK for page turning but impossible to do > the liquid zooming and panning that is possible on iPad. Full refresh is a bit slow. The Sony PRS-T1 eReader allows you to zoom and pan the display. It may not be as fast as on a regular LCD display but it works. > Animation (like iBook in page turning) isn't possible. > - cannot reasonably run a web browser What do you mean by "reasonably"? The PRS-T1 has a web browser built in. I've used it on a few occasions to check out the website of a local library, a book store, and a couple of other sites and haven't noticed any real problems other than the text can be a bit small but you can rotate the screen or zoom in. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 19:43:55 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:43:55 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:46 PM, wrote: > At least I don't think I offended anyone - hope I didn't. If so, an apology > would be probably ineffectual at this point. There were bad old days when the things you describe were quite, quite, quite true. There was the "infamous" Java talk which went from bad to worse. Of course, that was close to ten years ago, and it would be unfair to assume that things haven't changed since then. There is truth to the notion that there are people that frequently attend that do like to hear themselves talk. (It's even conceivable that I myself have occasionally been guilty of this.) There is merit to the idea that those that attend should, before speaking up about something, take a moment to ask themselves if they: a) Have something to say that others want to hear; b) Are trying, perhaps without being quite aware of it, to upstage the speaker who was, after all, invited to come and speak, and whom is the person that *OTHERS* came to listen to. As a not-so-loose rule for Gentle Listeners to consider... It's well and fine to have a question/comment. If you follow up to your own question or comment, multiple times in a row, that's steering firmly away from well and fine. (I actually have a particular individual in mind who might be steering towards needing for someone to have a little chat with him about this.) If we had wanted for you to monopolize the discussion, we would have assigned *you* as the speaker. Some of the very cleverest speakers figure out how to use the audience to do part of their talk :-). I recall a conference near Baltimore a few years ago where, in one of the sessions, the speaker pretty consciously drew out myself and another of the erstwhile listeners to explain some deep details. (He was doing a talk on database schema management; I was the Slony replication system developer in the crowd, and the other guy was responsible for implementing recursive SQL in Postgres...) In that case, it would have been rude for me *not* to step in and do part of his talk! :-) There seems to be a certain tendency in the hacker community for a touch of Asperger's Syndrome, so I think it may be unrealistic to have *none* of this... -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 20:31:59 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 20:31:59 +0000 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: ,,, Message-ID: > Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:43:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: RE: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm > From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 1:46 PM, wrote: > > At least I don't think I offended anyone - hope I didn't. If so, an apology > > would be probably ineffectual at this point. > > There were bad old days when the things you describe were quite, > quite, quite true. There was the "infamous" Java talk which went from > bad to worse. Of course, that was close to ten years ago, and it > would be unfair to assume that things haven't changed since then. I'm glad the atmosphere has changed for the better. I did state that the information I had may be old, so was trying to be fair and not imply it was unchanged. I have to admit to a perverse nostalgia for the heated posts from those days - some complained about the situation, others (no doubt the culprits) defended the behaviour with equal fervour. But it was truly an intolerable situation for anyone wanting to learn something. Aah, the beauty of history... that doesn't repeat itself :-). John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 28 20:35:52 2012 From: el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:35:52 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > > As a not-so-loose rule for Gentle Listeners to consider... ?It's well > and fine to have a question/comment. ?If you follow up to your own > question or comment, multiple times in a row, that's steering firmly > away from well and fine. ?(I actually have a particular individual in > mind who might be steering towards needing for someone to have a > little chat with him about this.) ?If we had wanted for you to > monopolize the discussion, we would have assigned *you* as the > speaker. > You guys are so genteel - this *must* be Toronto ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 29 01:30:56 2012 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:30:56 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> On 03/28/2012 03:43 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > There is merit > to the idea that those that attend should, before speaking up about > something, take a moment to ask themselves if they: > a) Have something to say that others want to hear; > b) Are trying, perhaps without being quite aware of it, to upstage the > speaker who was, after all, invited to come and speak, and whom is the > person that *OTHERS* came to listen to. And c) Whether the burningly salient issue that has leapt into one's mind is actually something that the speaker will deal with in a minute or two. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 29 02:06:30 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:06:30 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: <4F73BB50.9060205-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <4F73C3A6.3000701@ss.org> On 03/28/2012 09:30 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > On 03/28/2012 03:43 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> There is merit >> to the idea that those that attend should, before speaking up about >> something, take a moment to ask themselves if they: >> a) Have something to say that others want to hear; >> b) Are trying, perhaps without being quite aware of it, to upstage the >> speaker who was, after all, invited to come and speak, and whom is the >> person that *OTHERS* came to listen to. > And c) Whether the burningly salient issue that has leapt into one's > mind is actually something that the speaker will deal with in a minute > or two. That last one is why I find "I'll talk about that later." should be one of the first things speakers should be taught. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 29 06:27:01 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:27:01 +0200 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: <4F73C3A6.3000701-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> <4F73C3A6.3000701@ss.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 4:06 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 03/28/2012 09:30 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > >> On 03/28/2012 03:43 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> >>> There is merit >>> to the idea that those that attend should, before speaking up about >>> something, take a moment to ask themselves if they: >>> a) Have something to say that others want to hear; >>> b) Are trying, perhaps without being quite aware of it, to upstage the >>> speaker who was, after all, invited to come and speak, and whom is the >>> person that *OTHERS* came to listen to. >>> >> And c) Whether the burningly salient issue that has leapt into one's >> mind is actually something that the speaker will deal with in a minute >> or two. >> > > That last one is why I find "I'll talk about that later." should be one of > the first things speakers should be taught. > And I thought that Canadians are more polite and not shouting things at the face of that speaker. I thought such things happen only where I come from (Israel). :-) -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 29 13:29:56 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:29:56 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> <4F73C3A6.3000701@ss.org> Message-ID: <4F7463D4.7050301@ss.org> On 03/29/2012 02:27 AM, Ori Idan wrote: > And I thought that Canadians are more polite and not shouting things at > the face of that speaker. > I thought such things happen only where I come from (Israel). :-) > Bulls*!t It's not that we aren't rude from time to time, it's just that we are polite about being rude as well. There is also a difference between shouting and not knowing when to shut-up. It is that latter is what I've had to deal with on the occasions I've been a speaker. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 30 14:27:10 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:27:10 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: <4F7463D4.7050301-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> <4F73C3A6.3000701@ss.org> <4F7463D4.7050301@ss.org> Message-ID: I would like to do a presentation on deploying Linux onto low spec and Apple hardware! On 3/29/12, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 03/29/2012 02:27 AM, Ori Idan wrote: >> And I thought that Canadians are more polite and not shouting things at >> the face of that speaker. >> I thought such things happen only where I come from (Israel). :-) >> > > Bulls*!t > > It's not that we aren't rude from time to time, it's just that we are > polite about being rude as well. > > There is also a difference between shouting and not knowing when to > shut-up. It is that latter is what I've had to deal with on the > occasions I've been a speaker. > > -- > Scott Sullivan > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 30 17:42:46 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:42:46 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: <4F73BB50.9060205-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <20120330174246.GA5886@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:30:56PM -0400, Mel Wilson wrote: > On 03/28/2012 03:43 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > >There is merit to the idea that those that attend should, before > >speaking up about something, take a moment to ask themselves if they: > >a) Have something to say that others want to hear; > >b) Are trying, perhaps without being quite aware of it, to upstage > >the speaker who was, after all, invited to come and speak, and whom > >is the person that *OTHERS* came to listen to. > And c) Whether the burningly salient issue that has leapt into one's > mind is actually something that the speaker will deal with in a minute > or two. I think this is just a symptom of what constitutes TLUG. There are 2 groups in TLUG: - one group attends TLUG meetings regularly. For them, this month meeting is continuation of last month, and the discussion will continue at the next month meeting. Regardless of the topic at hand! :-) - the other group only attends for a particular topic. I know it's irritating to hear about something you already know. But, you have to keep in mind that everyone has something to contribute. For example, you would think that "accounting" has nothing to do with Linux, but you'd be surprised. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 30 17:53:43 2012 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:53:43 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: <20120330174246.GA5886-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> <20120330174246.GA5886@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120330175343.GA24176@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 01:42:46PM -0400, William Park wrote: >I think this is just a symptom of what constitutes TLUG. There are 2 >groups in TLUG: > - one group attends TLUG meetings regularly. For them, this month > meeting is continuation of last month, and the discussion will > continue at the next month meeting. Regardless of the topic at > hand! :-) > - the other group only attends for a particular topic. I think there is a third group, who for various reasons (kids, distance, competing commitments) *never* come to meetings, but regularly read the list and occasionally contribute or pose questions. I haven't been to a meeting in 10 years at least. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 30 18:38:51 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:38:51 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: <20120330174246.GA5886-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> <20120330174246.GA5886@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120330183851.GP10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 01:42:46PM -0400, William Park wrote: > I think this is just a symptom of what constitutes TLUG. There are 2 > groups in TLUG: > - one group attends TLUG meetings regularly. For them, this month > meeting is continuation of last month, and the discussion will > continue at the next month meeting. Regardless of the topic at > hand! :-) > - the other group only attends for a particular topic. How about the third type that just lurks on the mailing list and hasn't ever made it to a meeting? > I know it's irritating to hear about something you already know. But, > you have to keep in mind that everyone has something to contribute. For > example, you would think that "accounting" has nothing to do with Linux, > but you'd be surprised. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 30 19:32:48 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:32:48 -0700 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: given the way some discussions in this group have gone, I'd say that most people are fairly forgiving :-) On Mar 28, 2012 10:47 AM, wrote: > OK, so there's a lot of egg on my face right now. I can only excuse > myself for the fact that I'm fresh out of surgery convalescing at home and > enjoying the effects that diminishing drug levels have in my brain function. > > At least I don't think I offended anyone - hope I didn't. If so, an > apology would be probably ineffectual at this point. > > John. > > ------------------------------ > From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org > To: daniel.moniz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > Subject: FW: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 > at 7:30 pm > Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:36:30 +0000 > > Hi Daniel; > > I don't know if you might be interested in joining this session. If > nothing else, it may give you ideas of some items to research. > > I should warn you that the value of some of these sessions can sometimes > be degraded by members of the audience who love to tell everyone how they > do things and derail the presentation; or the presenter goes in there > winging it and is totally unprepared. At other times, the sessions are > great. A lot depends on the skill of the presenter and these guys are > volunteers. I've only been to a couple of these, so most of what I'm saying > is hearsay and may be old information. > > Dad. > > > > Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:38:46 -0400 > > Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at > 7:30 pm > > From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > > To: tlug-announce-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > > # U Got Some Tubes In Ur Webs with _Scott Elcomb_ > > > > In this talk, Scott will walk you through a rabbit hole and into a > > strange new world wide web. Discussion will include in-browser system > > virtualization & emulation, browser-based P2P networks & > > anti-censorship routing, and building distributed computing and > > massively multiuser worlds into your web pages. Specific technologies > > to be covered include Node.js, JS/Linux, Atomic OS, a decade-old > > research OS from Nintendo, Web Workers, WebRTC and WebGL. > > > > ## Location > > > > Room GB248, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto > > 35 St George St Toronto, Ontario M5S 3G8 > > > > or > > > > Parking at Galbraith: . > > > > ## Schedule > > > > * 6:00 pm - There is a get together of GTALUGers at Pho 88 restaurant > > 270 Spadina Ave (South of Dundas) for food and socializing. > > Information and Parking: . > > * 7:30 pm - Meeting and presentation. > > * 9:00 pm - After each meeting (at 9:00 pm) a group of GTALUGers > > move to the GSU Pub for beverages and more socializing. > > > > Retrieved from: > > > > -- > > Myles Braithwaite > > http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 30 19:36:52 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:36:52 -0700 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: <20120330183851.GP10303-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> <20120330174246.GA5886@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120330183851.GP10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: that would be me. :-) As I no longer live in Toronto (or even Ontario), attending would be difficult. I just stay on the list because a) my local LUG is somewhat less active/interesting b) Nobody has kicked me out yet ^^ It sucks to see some of the talks appear quite interesting, but I can't attend On Mar 30, 2012 11:39 AM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 01:42:46PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > I think this is just a symptom of what constitutes TLUG. There are 2 > > groups in TLUG: > > - one group attends TLUG meetings regularly. For them, this month > > meeting is continuation of last month, and the discussion will > > continue at the next month meeting. Regardless of the topic at > > hand! :-) > > - the other group only attends for a particular topic. > > How about the third type that just lurks on the mailing list and hasn't > ever made it to a meeting? > > > I know it's irritating to hear about something you already know. But, > > you have to keep in mind that everyone has something to contribute. For > > example, you would think that "accounting" has nothing to do with Linux, > > but you'd be surprised. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 30 21:37:48 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:37:48 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: <20120330175343.GA24176-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> <20120330174246.GA5886@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120330175343.GA24176@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4F7627AC.7080905@rogers.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 01:42:46PM -0400, William Park wrote: > >> I think this is just a symptom of what constitutes TLUG. There are 2 >> groups in TLUG: >> - one group attends TLUG meetings regularly. For them, this month >> meeting is continuation of last month, and the discussion will >> continue at the next month meeting. Regardless of the topic at >> hand! :-) >> - the other group only attends for a particular topic. > I think there is a third group, who for various reasons (kids, distance, > competing commitments) *never* come to meetings, but regularly read the > list and occasionally contribute or pose questions. > > I haven't been to a meeting in 10 years at least. I used to come to the meetings regularly, but stopped because of all the hecklers interrupting the presentation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 30 22:49:00 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:49:00 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: <4F7627AC.7080905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> <20120330174246.GA5886@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120330175343.GA24176@yam.witteman.ca> <4F7627AC.7080905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120330224900.GA12976@amber> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 05:37:48PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > I used to come to the meetings regularly, but stopped because of all the > hecklers interrupting the presentation. Ditto. Too much plain rudeness for my liking. There was nothing like this at all in the two other LUGs I've belonged to in the past. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 30 23:56:41 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:56:41 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: <20120330183851.GP10303-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> <20120330174246.GA5886@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120330183851.GP10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hmm, > > How about the third type that just lurks on the mailing list and hasn't > ever made it to a meeting? > That explain why I have not yet been able to put a face on you and William name > > I know it's irritating to hear about something you already know. But, > > you have to keep in mind that everyone has something to contribute. For > > example, you would think that "accounting" has nothing to do with Linux, > > but you'd be surprised. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 31 00:51:34 2012 From: alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 00:51:34 +0000 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: <4F73BB50.9060205@the-wire.com> <20120330174246.GA5886@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120330183851.GP10303@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1340082498-1333155092-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-703126822-@b28.c8.bise6.blackberry> Personally, I never attend the meetings due to conflicts with my work schedule. If there were other times for the meetings, then I'd have no problem attending one or more of them. There have been a number of topics of interest to me, though I haven't been able to attend any of the talks. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: William Muriithi Sender: owner-tlug at ss.org Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:56:41 To: Reply-To: tlug at ss.orgSubject: Re: [TLUG]: RE: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting on Tuesday 10th April, 2012 at 7:30 pm Hmm, > > How about the third type that just lurks on the mailing list and hasn't > ever made it to a meeting? > That explain why I have not yet been able to put a face on you and William name > > I know it's irritating to hear about something you already know. But, > > you have to keep in mind that everyone has something to contribute. For > > example, you would think that "accounting" has nothing to do with Linux, > > but you'd be surprised. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 31 03:56:30 2012 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:56:30 -0400 Subject: Fedora 16 and Gnome 3 Tested and Reviewed Message-ID: <4F76806E.3080903@gmail.com> An excellent article. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fedora-16-gnome-3-review,3155.html Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 31 06:19:55 2012 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 02:19:55 -0400 Subject: http://www.linuxfordevices.com (alternative?) Message-ID: <4F76A20B.4050900@gmail.com> This site hasn't update in more then a month or so. I have to assume its all but dead. Anyone have an alternative site for this type of content? (Linux in the HW space). -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 31 15:59:20 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Cheap man's version of 8-bay disk array? Message-ID: <1333209560.70928.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I'm running out of disk space, mainly because of backups. What I need is something like ??? Does anyone know any company selling just the circuit board in ATX/mATX form factor? I can set up a backup server, but that requires motherboard, cpu, ram, and OS, all of which I really don't want to deal with.? I already have case and power supply.? All I want to do is swap out the motherboard. Maybe I'm dreaming. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 31 17:59:52 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:59:52 -0700 Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: e-ink is more visible and easier on the eyes than any tablet I've seen. On Mar 26, 2012 2:06 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > | From: Ansar Mohammed > > | I bought an iPad for my wife a few months ago. The only thing she > | liked about it was the iBooks app and how easy it was to read and turn > | pages. > > If the only thing your are doing is reading books (you didn't say > that exactly), and the books don't have colour pictures, then I really > think that the e-ink readers are a much better choice than an iPad or > similar tablet. > > Obvious wins: > > - much less expensive > > - lighter > > - thinner > > - battery lasts a LOT longer (month vs. days) > > > Loses: > > - cannot do colour which would be nice for some books > > - 10" screen (of iPad and other tablets) is nicer than 6", > especially for PDFs > > - screen refresh is quite slow. OK for page turning but impossible to > do the liquid zooming and panning that is possible on iPad. > Animation (like iBook in page turning) isn't possible. > > - cannot reasonably run a web browser > > There are many ebook reader programs in Google Play (the new name for > Android Market). The most prominent are tied to particular DRM > platforms. Google Play Books, Kindle (Amazon), Kobo (several, > including Chapters Indigo), Nook (Barnes and Noble) all come to mind. > (Did I mention that I hate DRM?) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 31 19:32:25 2012 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:32:25 -0400 Subject: Fedora 16 and Gnome 3 Tested and Reviewed In-Reply-To: <4F76806E.3080903-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4F76806E.3080903@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:56 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > An excellent article. > > http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fedora-16-gnome-3-review,3155.html Thanks, terrific! Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 31 21:17:27 2012 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:17:27 -0400 Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 31 March 2012 13:59, Tyler Aviss wrote: > e-ink is more visible and easier on the eyes than any tablet I've seen. U -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 31 21:23:15 2012 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:23:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Android tablet epub Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 31 March 2012 13:59, Tyler Aviss wrote: > e-ink is more visible and easier on the eyes than any tablet I've seen. Unless you're in the dark. E-ink isn't generally back lit and needs ambient light to be visible. Tablets are generally back lit (and usually are hard to read in bright light, such as sunlight). P.S. Sorry for the last single character post. I must have hit return or accidentally hit the touchpad or something. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists