From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 1 14:58:51 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 10:58:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MySQL eats all CPU today Message-ID: Apparently the leap second upset MySQL. It goes into a CPU burning mode. see This happened on two of my three MythTV backends. The process eating the CPU isn't necessarily mysql -- in my case, it was a client. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 1 15:21:41 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 11:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MySQL eats all CPU today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Reading more, it seems as if this is a kernel bug. MySQL and Java seem to provoke it or get entangled in it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 1 16:37:18 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 12:37:18 -0400 Subject: MySQL eats all CPU today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FF07CBE.8070909@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Apparently the leap second upset MySQL. It goes into a CPU burning mode. > see > > > This happened on two of my three MythTV backends. > > The process eating the CPU isn't necessarily mysql -- in my case, it was a > client. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists That would explain why mysql was maxing out my system yesterday. At least now I know. A few days previous, the kernel was updated, along with Firefox (which uses mysql IIRC) and Seamonkey, along with a few other things. I wondered if one of those updates had caused the problem. I just rebooted my computer to clear the problem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 17:13:18 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 13:13:18 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure Message-ID: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> http://www.itworldcanada.com/news/linux-blamed-for-leap-second-that-humbled-internet/145702?sub=146611&utm_source=146611&utm_medium=dailyitwire&utm_campaign=enews -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 17:31:26 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 10:31:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <4FF3282E.5020009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> They blame the kernel, but only software affected are Java-based. :-) ----- Original Message ----- > From: James Knott > To: TLUG > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 1:13:18 PM > Subject: [TLUG]: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure > > > http://www.itworldcanada.com/news/linux-blamed-for-leap-second-that-humbled-internet/145702?sub=146611&utm_source=146611&utm_medium=dailyitwire&utm_campaign=enews > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 17:34:36 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 13:34:36 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3OORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4FF32D2C.9040901@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > They blame the kernel, but only software affected are Java-based.:-) And mysql. My own computer was bogged down on Saturday evening, with mysql hogging the CPU. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 17:54:50 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 13:54:50 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3OORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4FF331EA.7050407@ve3syb.ca> On 12-07-03 01:31 PM, William Park wrote: > They blame the kernel, but only software affected are Java-based. :-) So why where people reporting issues with MySQL? I find the whole thing a bit puzzling. I've know about leap seconds for years. They aren't new or even that rare as they seem to occur on a regular basis. I've heard quite a few of them when listening to WWV on shortwave. Why did this recent one cause so many headaches. The article reports that Firefox and Thunderbird were also affect but I didn't notice any issues with either program and I have both of them running when my computer is on. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 17:55:06 2012 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 13:55:06 -0400 Subject: Linux is culprit in leap-second lapses, says Cassandra exec - Computerworld Message-ID: Anyone have some insights on this? http://m.computerworld.com/s/article/9228743/Linux_is_culprit_in_leap_second_lapses_says_Cassandra_exec?taxonomyId=122 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 17:58:28 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 13:58:28 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <4FF32D2C.9040901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FF32D2C.9040901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FF332C4.306@ve3syb.ca> On 12-07-03 01:34 PM, James Knott wrote: > And mysql. My own computer was bogged down on Saturday evening, with mysql > hogging the CPU. Was the effect short-lived? Did it resolve itself eventually or did it require program restarts or system reboot? -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen.a.gordon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 17:59:45 2012 From: stephen.a.gordon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stephen Gordon) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 13:59:45 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3OORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:31 PM, William Park wrote: > They blame the kernel, but only software affected are Java-based. :-) So the patches made to the kernel as a result are just to make Java look good? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 18:03:06 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 14:03:06 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <4FF332C4.306-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FF32D2C.9040901@rogers.com> <4FF332C4.306@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4FF333DA.5080201@rogers.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 12-07-03 01:34 PM, James Knott wrote: >> And mysql. My own computer was bogged down on Saturday evening, with >> mysql >> hogging the CPU. > > Was the effect short-lived? Did it resolve itself eventually or did it > require program restarts or system reboot? > I didn't time it, but it was solid. According to System Monitor, mysql was taking 100% of the CPU. I rebooted my computer. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 18:03:16 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:03:16 +0300 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <4FF332C4.306-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FF32D2C.9040901@rogers.com> <4FF332C4.306@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 12-07-03 01:34 PM, James Knott wrote: > >> And mysql. My own computer was bogged down on Saturday evening, with >> mysql >> hogging the CPU. >> > > Was the effect short-lived? Did it resolve itself eventually or did it > require program restarts or system reboot? Strange that I did not notice it at all, I have two servers running Ubuntu 10.04 kernel version 2.6.32 My servers are running apach and mysql and few scripts in PHP or perl. Is it only with version 3.0.x of the kernel? -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 18:07:59 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 14:07:59 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <4FF331EA.7050407-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FF331EA.7050407@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4FF334FF.3070506@utoronto.ca> On 12-07-03 01:54 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 12-07-03 01:31 PM, William Park wrote: >> They blame the kernel, but only software affected are Java-based. :-) > > So why where people reporting issues with MySQL? > > I find the whole thing a bit puzzling. I've know about leap seconds for > years. They aren't new or even that rare as they seem to occur on a > regular basis. I've heard quite a few of them when listening to WWV on > shortwave. Why did this recent one cause so many headaches. I believe google setup their ntp servers to gradually add a few milliseconds over the days leading up to the leap second and as such weren't affected. https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/1/203 seems to be the root cause analysis, seems like it has been around since 2.6.22 kernel. Running date -s "$(date)" was enough to fix it - just needed to give the clock a kick is all. A reboot worked too. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 18:36:57 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 14:36:57 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3OORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120703183657.GA19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 10:31:26AM -0700, William Park wrote: > They blame the kernel, but only software affected are Java-based. :-) And mysql. My poor mythtv backend was very upset. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 18:37:49 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 14:37:49 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FF32D2C.9040901@rogers.com> <4FF332C4.306@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20120703183749.GB19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 09:03:16PM +0300, Ori Idan wrote: > Strange that I did not notice it at all, I have two servers running Ubuntu > 10.04 kernel version 2.6.32 > My servers are running apach and mysql and few scripts in PHP or perl. > Is it only with version 3.0.x of the kernel? Are you running ntp? If not, how would you even know a leap second should happen? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 18:40:12 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:40:12 +0300 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <20120703183749.GB19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FF32D2C.9040901@rogers.com> <4FF332C4.306@ve3syb.ca> <20120703183749.GB19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 09:03:16PM +0300, Ori Idan wrote: > > Strange that I did not notice it at all, I have two servers running > Ubuntu > > 10.04 kernel version 2.6.32 > > My servers are running apach and mysql and few scripts in PHP or perl. > > Is it only with version 3.0.x of the kernel? > > Are you running ntp? > > If not, how would you even know a leap second should happen? > I am using NTP. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 18:45:53 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 14:45:53 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FF32D2C.9040901@rogers.com> <4FF332C4.306@ve3syb.ca> <20120703183749.GB19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120703184553.GC19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 09:40:12PM +0300, Ori Idan wrote: > I am using NTP. Well it seems that you had to have something using the high res timers in order to hit it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 18:47:41 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:47:41 +0300 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <20120703184553.GC19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FF32D2C.9040901@rogers.com> <4FF332C4.306@ve3syb.ca> <20120703183749.GB19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120703184553.GC19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 09:40:12PM +0300, Ori Idan wrote: > > I am using NTP. > > Well it seems that you had to have something using the high res timers > in order to hit it. > I see. As much as I know no program I use is using high res timers. -- Ori Idan > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 18:49:40 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 14:49:40 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FF32D2C.9040901@rogers.com> <4FF332C4.306@ve3syb.ca> <20120703183749.GB19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Ori Idan wrote: > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> >> On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 09:03:16PM +0300, Ori Idan wrote: >> > Strange that I did not notice it at all, I have two servers running >> > Ubuntu >> > 10.04 kernel version 2.6.32 >> > My servers are running apach and mysql and few scripts in PHP or perl. >> > Is it only with version 3.0.x of the kernel? >> >> Are you running ntp? >> >> If not, how would you even know a leap second should happen? > > I am using NTP. Which implies that the interaction is curiouser still... Nobody knows that there's a leap second unless they're running some software that's aware of that. (ergo, NTP.) And the software on the other end has to have some "falsehood believed about time"... http://infiniteundo.com/post/25326999628/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-time -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 20:57:43 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 16:57:43 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <4FF3282E.5020009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120703205742.GA27541@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 01:13:18PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > http://www.itworldcanada.com/news/linux-blamed-for-leap-second-that-humbled-internet/145702?sub=146611&utm_source=146611&utm_medium=dailyitwire&utm_campaign=enews In my /var/log/message, I see Jun 30 19:59:59 node1 kernel: [768741.907404] Clock: inserting leap second 23:59:60 UTC -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 21:04:10 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 17:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux Suite for Guitar Message-ID: http://linuxsuite.org/ by Steve Shorter -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 22:59:52 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 18:59:52 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3OORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4FF37968.5090700@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > They blame the kernel, but only software affected are Java-based. Perhaps they leaped to a conclusion. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 3 23:08:38 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 19:08:38 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <4FF37968.5090700-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FF37968.5090700@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FF37B76.6060700@utoronto.ca> On 12-07-03 06:59 PM, James Knott wrote: > William Park wrote: >> They blame the kernel, but only software affected are Java-based. > > Perhaps they leaped to a conclusion. ;-) Now wait just a second.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 4 04:42:42 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 21:42:42 -0700 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <4FF32D2C.9040901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FF32D2C.9040901@rogers.com> Message-ID: Must be some specific circumstances to trigger it, even with mysql. MySQL on my home box was unaffected. I manage a few corporate boxen running RHEL and mysql was fine on those too. On Jul 3, 2012 10:59 AM, "James Knott" wrote: > William Park wrote: > >> They blame the kernel, but only software affected are Java-based.:-) >> > > And mysql. My own computer was bogged down on Saturday evening, with > mysql hogging the CPU. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 4 11:42:26 2012 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 07:42:26 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <20120703184553.GC19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF3282E.5020009@rogers.com> <1341336686.69152.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4FF32D2C.9040901@rogers.com> <4FF332C4.306@ve3syb.ca> <20120703183749.GB19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120703184553.GC19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120704114225.GG32452@adb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well it seems that you had to have something using the high res timers > in order to hit it. There's reason to use those in software video playback, animation, interactive games, and the like. However, I'm suspicious of whether most Java software (especially stuff running on the server side) had a valid excuse and _really_ wonder what MySQL was smoking. Most well-written software should wait on data arriving in one form or another and consume zero CPU cycles meanwhile. I'm also thinking that integer time should probably have followed a true linear model, and put leap seconds in the tz data instead. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 4 21:11:56 2012 From: anthony-P5WJPa9AKEcsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Anthony Verevkin) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 17:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <435522c5-fe8b-43fa-b83e-8b4e4156ce00@zimbra> > Must be some specific circumstances to trigger it, even with mysql. > > MySQL on my home box was unaffected. I manage a few corporate boxen > running RHEL and mysql was fine on those too. >From what I saw, in order to be affected your system must have been running ntpd in the daemon mode (not ntpdate and not ntpd as an occasional cronjob). In that case ntpd would tell the kernel that tonight we are going to add an extra second and that's where the kernel gets screwed up. Regards, Anthony -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 01:12:17 2012 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 18:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <435522c5-fe8b-43fa-b83e-8b4e4156ce00@zimbra> References: <435522c5-fe8b-43fa-b83e-8b4e4156ce00@zimbra> Message-ID: <1341450737.82149.YahooMailNeo@web122201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Must be some specific circumstances to trigger it, even with mysql. > > MySQL on my home box was unaffected. I manage a few corporate boxen > running RHEL and mysql was fine on those too. >From what I saw, in order to be affected your system must have been running ntpd in the daemon mode (not ntpdate and not ntpd as an occasional cronjob). In that case ntpd would tell the kernel that tonight we are going to add an extra second and that's where the kernel gets screwed up. Has anybody pinpointed where the problem code is? What version of the software is/are affected? Thanks, -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 05:37:09 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 22:37:09 -0700 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <435522c5-fe8b-43fa-b83e-8b4e4156ce00@zimbra> References: <435522c5-fe8b-43fa-b83e-8b4e4156ce00@zimbra> Message-ID: wouldn't that also mean that if your clock was 1s+ off and NTP corrected it, a similar issue would occur? On Jul 4, 2012 2:13 PM, "Anthony Verevkin" wrote: > > > Must be some specific circumstances to trigger it, even with mysql. > > > > MySQL on my home box was unaffected. I manage a few corporate boxen > > running RHEL and mysql was fine on those too. > > From what I saw, in order to be affected your system must have been > running ntpd in the daemon mode (not ntpdate and not ntpd as an occasional > cronjob). In that case ntpd would tell the kernel that tonight we are > going to add an extra second and that's where the kernel gets screwed up. > > Regards, > Anthony > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 09:44:55 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 05:44:55 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: References: <435522c5-fe8b-43fa-b83e-8b4e4156ce00@zimbra> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 1:37 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > wouldn't that also mean that if your clock was 1s+ off and NTP corrected > it, a similar issue would occur? No, there's something special about a leap second. That leads to the situation where, rather than 23:59:59 being followed by 00:00:00, it is, instead, followed by 23:59:60, and apparently something got deranged about that. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 15:19:20 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:19:20 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: References: <435522c5-fe8b-43fa-b83e-8b4e4156ce00@zimbra> Message-ID: <20120705151920.GF19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 10:37:09PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > wouldn't that also mean that if your clock was 1s+ off and NTP corrected > it, a similar issue would occur? That would cause a 'time was set' event, which makes things work (hence why date -s could fix systems affected by this). leap seconds really are special. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 15:27:30 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 11:27:30 -0400 Subject: Linux blamed for 'leap second' that humbled Internet - Page 1 - Enterprise Infrastructure In-Reply-To: <1341450737.82149.YahooMailNeo-4ZeFpYMgp3oIL6oRCX9nZJOW+3bF1jUfVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <435522c5-fe8b-43fa-b83e-8b4e4156ce00@zimbra> <1341450737.82149.YahooMailNeo@web122201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120705152730.GG19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 06:12:17PM -0700, DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: > From what I saw, in order to be affected your system must have been > running ntpd in the daemon mode (not ntpdate and not ntpd as an occasional > cronjob). In that case ntpd would tell the kernel that tonight we are > going to add an extra second and that's where the kernel gets screwed up. > > Has anybody pinpointed where the problem code is? What version of the software is/are affected? https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/6/30/122 seems to discuss the issue. Even ksoftirqd kernel threads were effected (which might explain why I saw those eating a ton of CPU as well on my machine). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 16:31:31 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:31:31 -0400 Subject: text indexing on Linux? Message-ID: <20120705163130.GA2573@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi all, Suppose all your files are text files and contain 10 words max. What program would you use to index them based on contents? That is, given a set of words, it has to return the name of files that contain those words. I know of "updatedb" and "locate", but they index only filenames, not the content. For my need, "grep" is still faster than any SQL solution, but I'm curious as to what is the correct approach. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 16:37:45 2012 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:37:45 -0400 Subject: text indexing on Linux? In-Reply-To: <20120705163130.GA2573-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120705163130.GA2573@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: > I know of "updatedb" and "locate", but they index only filenames, not > the content. ?For my need, "grep" is still faster than any SQL solution, > but I'm curious as to what is the correct approach. I don't know if correct is the right word in this case as "working" could imply "correctness." You could look at a command line interface to a xapian database though. It's a good indexing/search library. I'm not sure if there is anything that would work off the shelf or if you'd need to hack something up with ruby/python though. Also, if the number of files is small, grep is likely adequate anyway. Thanks -Ben -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Walton Take the risk of thinking for yourself. ?Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 16:37:27 2012 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:37:27 -0400 Subject: text indexing on Linux? In-Reply-To: <20120705163130.GA2573-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120705163130.GA2573@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Well, postgresql has a builtin text search, so I'm not convinced that grep is actually faster. Dave Cramer On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 12:31 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > Suppose all your files are text files and contain 10 words max. What > program would you use to index them based on contents? That is, given a > set of words, it has to return the name of files that contain those > words. > > I know of "updatedb" and "locate", but they index only filenames, not > the content. For my need, "grep" is still faster than any SQL solution, > but I'm curious as to what is the correct approach. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 16:38:55 2012 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:38:55 -0400 Subject: text indexing on Linux? In-Reply-To: <20120705163130.GA2573-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120705163130.GA2573@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4FF5C31F.3060309@gmail.com> are the contents basically completely random dictionary words, i.e. a set of "words" that can be from 600k+ words? Or is the contents a small subset of "words". Also , how many files are you talking about? -tl On 07/05/2012 12:31 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > Suppose all your files are text files and contain 10 words max. What > program would you use to index them based on contents? That is, given a > set of words, it has to return the name of files that contain those > words. > > I know of "updatedb" and "locate", but they index only filenames, not > the content. For my need, "grep" is still faster than any SQL solution, > but I'm curious as to what is the correct approach. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 16:45:48 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:45:48 -0400 Subject: text indexing on Linux? In-Reply-To: <20120705163130.GA2573-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120705163130.GA2573@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 12:31 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > Suppose all your files are text files and contain 10 words max. What > program would you use to index them based on contents? That is, given a > set of words, it has to return the name of files that contain those > words. > > I know of "updatedb" and "locate", but they index only filenames, not > the content. For my need, "grep" is still faster than any SQL solution, > but I'm curious as to what is the correct approach. There are a number of "text database" systems that might be suitable for this sort of thing. Desktop environments have "gone here"... See Beagle... , unfortunately seems to have 'died.' The KDE-ish flavour of this is Strigi: http://sourceforge.net/projects/strigi/ Strigi can use a number of backends for storing the indexes, including - Apache Lucerne - Xapian See also... http://fallabs.com/estraier/ http://fallabs.com/hyperestraier/ It is common now for relational databases to include full text search capabilities. http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/textsearch.html -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 17:23:14 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:23:14 -0400 Subject: text indexing on Linux? In-Reply-To: <9901_1341505925_q65GW5a0010250_20120705163130.GA2573-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <9901_1341505925_q65GW5a0010250_20120705163130.GA2573@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4FF5CD82.3020006@utoronto.ca> On 05/07/12 12:31 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > Suppose all your files are text files and contain 10 words max. What > program would you use to index them based on contents? That is, given a > set of words, it has to return the name of files that contain those > words. > > I know of "updatedb" and "locate", but they index only filenames, not > the content. For my need, "grep" is still faster than any SQL solution, > but I'm curious as to what is the correct approach. Seems like a document store like mongodb would be a good tool for this if you have a lot of files. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 18:14:08 2012 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 14:14:08 -0400 Subject: text indexing on Linux? In-Reply-To: References: <20120705163130.GA2573@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120705141408.3b158d92@herring_sucker.example.org> On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 12:45:48 -0400 Christopher Browne wrote: > There are a number of "text database" systems that might be suitable > for this sort of thing. > > Desktop environments have "gone here"... > > See Beagle... , > unfortunately seems to have 'died.' > > The KDE-ish flavour of this is Strigi: > http://sourceforge.net/projects/strigi/ > > Strigi can use a number of backends for storing the indexes, including > > - Apache Lucerne > - Xapian > > See also... > http://fallabs.com/estraier/ > http://fallabs.com/hyperestraier/ > > It is common now for relational databases to include full text search > capabilities. > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/textsearch.html There's also Recoll. http://www.lesbonscomptes.com/recoll/ -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org gstrom57-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 5 22:42:43 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 18:42:43 -0400 Subject: text indexing on Linux? In-Reply-To: <4FF5C31F.3060309-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20120705163130.GA2573@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FF5C31F.3060309@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120705224243.GA3909@node1.opengeometry.net> Number of "files" can be millions, and "words" would come from everyday English usage. Even though my case is not file related, I posed the problem as such, because the problem is essentially the same. In my case, records contain - item description, sku, price, etc. - customer name, address, etc. - vendor name, address, etc. So, if I give a subset of above data, I want to get back the relevant record keys. If PostgreSQL is already employed, then that would be the answer. But, if glibc has something similar, then I'd prefer that. -- William On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 12:38:55PM -0400, Ted wrote: > are the contents basically completely random dictionary words, i.e. a > set of "words" that can be from 600k+ words? > Or is the contents a small subset of "words". > Also , how many files are you talking about? > > -tl > > On 07/05/2012 12:31 PM, William Park wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >Suppose all your files are text files and contain 10 words max. What > >program would you use to index them based on contents? That is, > >given a set of words, it has to return the name of files that contain > >those words. > > > >I know of "updatedb" and "locate", but they index only filenames, not > >the content. For my need, "grep" is still faster than any SQL > >solution, but I'm curious as to what is the correct approach. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 00:42:05 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 20:42:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers Message-ID: You now have to ceded control to Linksys' cloud service. (The CellPipe modem's for Bell's VDSL2 suffer from a similar problem. You have no control over firmware updates. The current version is buggy and there is no relief.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 02:04:42 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 22:04:42 -0400 Subject: text indexing on Linux? In-Reply-To: <3614_1341528187_q65Mh6Rj003854_20120705224243.GA3909-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120705163130.GA2573@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FF5C31F.3060309@gmail.com> <3614_1341528187_q65Mh6Rj003854_20120705224243.GA3909@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4FF647BA.6060907@utoronto.ca> On 05/07/12 06:42 PM, William Park wrote: > Number of "files" can be millions, and "words" would come from everyday > English usage. > > Even though my case is not file related, I posed the problem as such, > because the problem is essentially the same. In my case, records > contain > - item description, sku, price, etc. > - customer name, address, etc. > - vendor name, address, etc. > So, if I give a subset of above data, I want to get back the relevant > record keys. > > If PostgreSQL is already employed, then that would be the answer. But, > if glibc has something similar, then I'd prefer that. Can you give us a representative (sanitized) sample? How well formed are these files, and how consistent are they in their fields and completeness? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 11:21:08 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 07:21:08 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:42 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > You now have to ceded control to Linksys' cloud service. I don't have an issue with buying Linksys hardware. I would have a problem with running Linksys software. In other words, I wouldn't get Linksys hardware that I can't reflash to something like Tomato Linux :-) . > (The CellPipe modem's for Bell's VDSL2 suffer from a similar problem. You > have no control over firmware updates. The current version is buggy and > there is no relief.) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 14:11:18 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:11:18 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FF6F206.4040700@utoronto.ca> On 06/07/12 07:21 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:42 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> >> You now have to ceded control to Linksys' cloud service. > > I don't have an issue with buying Linksys hardware. I would have a > problem with running Linksys software. In other words, I wouldn't get > Linksys hardware that I can't reflash to something like Tomato Linux > :-) . That's a terrifically *bad* way to reward a company. That's like saying I don't like your software, but here, take my money anyways and continue making poor executive decisions, and software.. That's like staying in a bad relationship with someone when you know everything about them except their physical appearance is incompatible with you.. Also, tomato runs on more than just Linksys. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 15:07:16 2012 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 11:07:16 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: <4FF6F206.4040700-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF6F206.4040700@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Speaking of which, I just purchased an ASUS RT-N16 to replace my aging wrt54gl. I have heard great things, and the Tomato-USB devs(and devs of other forks/firmwares) are using this. On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 06/07/12 07:21 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:42 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier > wrote: > >> < > http://www.extremetech.com/computing/132142-ciscos-cloud-vision-mandatory-monetized-and-killed-at-their-discretion > > > >> You now have to ceded control to Linksys' cloud service. > > > > I don't have an issue with buying Linksys hardware. I would have a > > problem with running Linksys software. In other words, I wouldn't get > > Linksys hardware that I can't reflash to something like Tomato Linux > > :-) . > > That's a terrifically *bad* way to reward a company. That's like saying > I don't like your software, but here, take my money anyways and continue > making poor executive decisions, and software.. That's like staying in a > bad relationship with someone when you know everything about them except > their physical appearance is incompatible with you.. > > Also, tomato runs on more than just Linksys. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 15:17:08 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 11:17:08 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: <4FF6F206.4040700-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF6F206.4040700@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 6 July 2012 10:11, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 06/07/12 07:21 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:42 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >>> >>> You now have to ceded control to Linksys' cloud service. >> >> I don't have an issue with buying Linksys hardware. I would have a >> problem with running Linksys software. In other words, I wouldn't get >> Linksys hardware that I can't reflash to something like Tomato Linux >> :-) . > > That's a terrifically *bad* way to reward a company. That's like saying > I don't like your software, but here, take my money anyways and continue > making poor executive decisions, and software.. That's like staying in a > bad relationship with someone when you know everything about them except > their physical appearance is incompatible with you.. > > Also, tomato runs on more than just Linksys. I'm inclined to agree that it would be better to vote with your money and buy something not Linksys/Cisco, but so long as Linksys doesn't actively interfere with people flashing better firmware onto their products I don't think an outright ban is called for. Although encouraging your less technical friends (ie. those who don't know how to / don't want to deal with flashing routers) to buy elsewhere would be good. I'd suggest looking at TP-Link. They're chewing up the low end of the market with equipment that (in my admittedly limited experience) seems to be proving quite reliable. And more than half their line appears to be flashable with OpenWRT at a noticeably lower cost than the equivalent Linksys equipment. The only downside is the theoretical possibility that the Chinese government may have insisted that Shenzhen manufacturers make the hardware "phone home." I'm somewhat skeptical about this as I think the Chinese government would prefer to dominate the world financially rather than cripple their companies' competitiveness by requiring extra, unnecessary circuitry. And besides, that "threat" also extends to pretty much any piece of hardware that includes Chinese chips ... which is everything. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 15:23:43 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 11:23:43 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: <4FF6F206.4040700-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF6F206.4040700@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: > > > > I don't have an issue with buying Linksys hardware. I would have a > > problem with running Linksys software. In other words, I wouldn't get > > Linksys hardware that I can't reflash to something like Tomato Linux > > :-) . > > That's a terrifically *bad* way to reward a company. That's like saying > I don't like your software, but here, take my money anyways and continue > making poor executive decisions, and software.. That's like staying in a > bad relationship with someone when you know everything about them except > their physical appearance is incompatible with you.. > > Also, tomato runs on more than just Linksys. > Totally agree with you here. We should vote with our wallet. This is not different from nvidia and other hostile hardware company and even if there is a way around it, they should not gain financially when you aware of stuff like this. If its not financially painful for them, what to prevent everyone of them doing the same? I think buying somewhere else make sense long term William > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 15:27:46 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 11:27:46 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: References: <4FF6F206.4040700@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4FF703F2.1050904@rogers.com> Aaron Doucette wrote: > Speaking of which, I just purchased an ASUS RT-N16 to replace my aging > wrt54gl. I have heard great things, and the Tomato-USB devs(and devs > of other forks/firmwares) are using this. > My firewall is an old computer running Linux. It gives me flexibility to set up things like a caching DNS, 6in4 IPv6 tunnel, VPN and more. For WiFi, I use a TP-Link TL-WA901ND, which supports "N" and PoE, so I can mount it in a location where power is not convenient. It also runs Linux. http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_1056_356&item_id=031082 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 15:30:45 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 11:30:45 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120706153045.GH19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 08:42:05PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > You now have to ceded control to Linksys' cloud service. At least for some models affected they do offer the ability to "downgrade" to the old firmware interface. It does seem Cisco has very much screwed up here. How are you supposed to fix your router to get on the internet if you have to be on the internet to connect to the configuration system for your router? Seems a lot of users are not impressed. Should probably just go buy a Buffalo router instead that comes with DD-WRT from the factory. Cheaper, more features, better performance, and non crazy firmware. > (The CellPipe modem's for Bell's VDSL2 suffer from a similar problem. You > have no control over firmware updates. The current version is buggy and > there is no relief.) I just hit the factory reset button on mine, went in and disabled wifi and HPNA, and then connected my router to the first network port and setup PPPoE on my router. Works great in bypass mode that way. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 15:32:23 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 11:32:23 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: <4FF6F206.4040700-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF6F206.4040700@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20120706153223.GI19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 06, 2012 at 10:11:18AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > That's a terrifically *bad* way to reward a company. That's like saying > I don't like your software, but here, take my money anyways and continue > making poor executive decisions, and software.. That's like staying in a > bad relationship with someone when you know everything about them except > their physical appearance is incompatible with you.. > > Also, tomato runs on more than just Linksys. Linksys is also one of those companies that will change a product in completely incompatible ways, keep the name, but give it a new revision and not put that revision on the box. At least D-Link and Asus clearly label revisions on the box so you can tell what you are buying. Also Linksys boxes tend to run very hot in my experience. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 17:15:25 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 13:15:25 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: <4FF6F206.4040700-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FF6F206.4040700@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 06/07/12 07:21 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:42 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >>> >>> You now have to ceded control to Linksys' cloud service. >> >> I don't have an issue with buying Linksys hardware. I would have a >> problem with running Linksys software. In other words, I wouldn't get >> Linksys hardware that I can't reflash to something like Tomato Linux >> :-) . > > That's a terrifically *bad* way to reward a company. That's like saying > I don't like your software, but here, take my money anyways and continue > making poor executive decisions, and software.. That's like staying in a > bad relationship with someone when you know everything about them except > their physical appearance is incompatible with you.. No, more like I like the house, the location, the layout and the price, but I HATE the colour. As long as re-painting the house isn't going to be a big issue, then the house is worth considering. If they block changing the colour then there are issues. If the hardware is good, at a decent price and can be easily adapted to what I want I don't see an issue. > Also, tomato runs on more than just Linksys. True, I have heard a number of nice things said about products from several other firms. The big advantage at present with Linksys is that they seem to be EVERYWHERE at reasonable prices. Still, to follow-up on some of the other comments noted here, I would have trouble recommending a Linksys router to someone that wasn't going to get re-flashed (ie: non-techie friends and family). > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 17:19:34 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 13:19:34 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FF71E26.4050204@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > You now have to ceded control to Linksys' cloud service. > Apparently they've changed their mind: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 18:14:53 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 14:14:53 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: References: <4FF6F206.4040700@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20120706181453.GJ19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 06, 2012 at 01:15:25PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > No, more like I like the house, the location, the layout and the > price, but I HATE the colour. As long as re-painting the house isn't > going to be a big issue, then the house is worth considering. If they > block changing the colour then there are issues. If the hardware is > good, at a decent price and can be easily adapted to what I want I > don't see an issue. Painting your house doesn't void the warranty. > True, I have heard a number of nice things said about products from > several other firms. The big advantage at present with Linksys is that > they seem to be EVERYWHERE at reasonable prices. For the features and specs, buffalo is cheaper. Harder to find, but worth it. > Still, to follow-up on some of the other comments noted here, I would > have trouble recommending a Linksys router to someone that wasn't > going to get re-flashed (ie: non-techie friends and family). Also does linksys cancel your warranty if you reflash it with something else? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 6 22:36:52 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 18:36:52 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: <20120706153045.GH19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120706153045.GH19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120706223652.GA13342@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 06, 2012 at 11:30:45AM -0400, wrote: > At least for some models affected they do offer the ability to "downgrade" > to the old firmware interface. > > It does seem Cisco has very much screwed up here. How are you supposed to > fix your router to get on the internet if you have to be on the internet > to connect to the configuration system for your router? Seems a lot of > users are not impressed. That didn't last long: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/06/cisco_connect_cloud_linksys/ Seems the PR disaster was just way too expensive to deal with. Routers are being returned to their former state now, and they won't push updates anymore without being asked to, and the cloud management will now be optional rather than mandetory. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 8 14:19:09 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 10:19:09 -0400 Subject: Offering old "Byte" Magazine Message-ID: I've got a large number of "Byte" magazines from the the late 1970s though the mid-1980s to offer. Obviously I love to see these do better than end up in a recycle bin, but I no longer want to give the space over to these magazines. Anyone interested? I can bring some of them to the next GTALug meeting, but there are enough of these magazines that I could not bring them all to the meeting (ie: I would be asking anyone who wants them all to swing by my home (near Yonge & Eglinton) to grab the bulk of the magazines. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 8 15:17:40 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 11:17:40 -0400 Subject: Offering old "Byte" Magazine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FF9A494.9030808@gmail.com> On 12-07-08 10:19 , Colin McGregor wrote: > I've got a large number of "Byte" magazines from the the late 1970s > though the mid-1980s to offer. See if any of them aren't already in the scanned archive: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/167235-byte-magazine/ You can probably recycle the dupes in good faith. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 8 16:18:29 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 12:18:29 -0400 Subject: Offering old "Byte" Magazine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FF9B2D5.8090504@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > I've got a large number of "Byte" magazines from the the late 1970s > though the mid-1980s to offer. Obviously I love to see these do better > than end up in a recycle bin, but I no longer want to give the space > over to these magazines. > > Anyone interested? I can bring some of them to the next GTALug > meeting, but there are enough of these magazines that I could not > bring them all to the meeting (ie: I would be asking anyone who wants > them all to swing by my home (near Yonge & Eglinton) to grab the bulk > of the magazines. > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists I happen to have the entire run of paper issues on the shelf behind me. I picked up the first three issues from Wayne Greene, the original publisher, at an amateur radio convention in Oct. 1975. I then subscribed up until they stopped the paper version. Topics listed on the cover of Issue #1, from Sept 1975, price $1.50: Which Microprocessor for you? Cassette Interface - Your key to inexpensive bulk memory Assembling Your Assembler Can YOU use these SURPLUS KEYBOARDS? (You bet you can!) And, at the bottom of the front cover: COMPUTERS - the World's Greatest Toy! Wayne Greene was the publisher of the amateur radio magazine "73", among others magazines and books. He lost Byte, because he had put it in his wife's name and she left him. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 8 18:38:01 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 14:38:01 -0400 Subject: MagPi, a Raspberry Pi magazine is out... Message-ID: FYI: There is now a Raspberry Pi magazine out, issues available as downloads : http://www.themagpi.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 8 19:27:51 2012 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 15:27:51 -0400 Subject: Offering old "Byte" Magazine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FF9DF37.9090400@dinamis.com> On 07/08/2012 10:19 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > I've got a large number of "Byte" magazines from the the late 1970s > though the mid-1980s to offer. And if anyone wants to have a more or less complete set of BYTE magazine, I have issues from roughly the mid-80s to the last paper issues. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3230 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 03:21:38 2012 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:21:38 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4FFA1602.13165.1AAA0D83@sciguy.vex.net> I was thinking of flashing the firmware on my Linksys router to something else. Sad that Tomato won't work on my WRT610N :-( Also, it seems that dd-wrt is fraught with known bugs. On 6 Jul 2012 at 7:21, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:42 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > > > You now have to ceded control to Linksys' cloud service. > > I don't have an issue with buying Linksys hardware. I would have a > problem with running Linksys software. In other words, I wouldn't get > Linksys hardware that I can't reflash to something like Tomato Linux > :-) . > > > (The CellPipe modem's for Bell's VDSL2 suffer from a similar problem. You > > have no control over firmware updates. The current version is buggy and > > there is no relief.) > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 03:24:48 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 23:24:48 -0400 Subject: think twice about buying Linksys routers In-Reply-To: <4FFA1602.13165.1AAA0D83-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: , <4FFA1602.13165.1AAA0D83@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <4FFA4F00.2090008@utoronto.ca> On 12-07-08 11:21 PM, sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org wrote: > I was thinking of flashing the firmware on my Linksys router to > something else. > > Sad that Tomato won't work on my WRT610N :-( > > Also, it seems that dd-wrt is fraught with known bugs. If you have version 1.0 of that unit OpenWRT looks like it will work: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/linksys/wrt610n Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 13:26:55 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 06:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Compressed partition or block device? Message-ID: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I want to try "compressed partition or block device" (just like RAID or encryption layer) on top of which would go your regular filesystem.? Is there such thing?? Any keywords to get me started? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 14:53:16 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:53:16 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile Message-ID: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> I have been getting intermittent packet loss and called Rogers. It was a 15 minute wait so I tried their Live Agent. You have to be using Windows or a MAC so I used my Windows laptop. And you have to connect directly from your modem to your computer. So I had to kill my first connection, change the wires and connect again. I inquired about people who run Linux and I was advised that they had to use Windows or a MAC to get support. My guess is this Live Agent is a way for Rogers to conceal the heavy accents of their support staff from their customers. -- Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 14:55:59 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 17:55:59 +0300 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: <4FFAF05C.1020403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Stephen wrote: > I have been getting intermittent packet loss and called Rogers. It was a > 15 minute wait so I tried their Live Agent. > > You have to be using Windows or a MAC so I used my Windows laptop. > > And you have to connect directly from your modem to your computer. So I > had to kill my first connection, change the wires and connect again. > > I inquired about people who run Linux and I was advised that they had to > use Windows or a MAC to get support. > > My guess is this Live Agent is a way for Rogers to conceal the heavy > accents of their support staff from their customers. You mean the heavy Indian accent? I like their accent, it's a little bit funny sometimes but I like it. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 15:18:07 2012 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:18:07 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: <4FFAF05C.1020403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Stephen wrote: > I have been getting intermittent packet loss and called Rogers. It was a 15 > minute wait so I tried their Live Agent. > > You have to be using Windows or a MAC so I used my Windows laptop. > > And you have to connect directly from your modem to your computer. So I had > to kill my first connection, change the wires and connect again. > > I inquired about people who run Linux and I was advised that they had to use > Windows or a MAC to get support. > Most ISPs are like all over the world, not just here. But Rogers blows in every sense. I wouldn't use them even if they gave me Internet for free. > My guess is this Live Agent is a way for Rogers to conceal the heavy accents > of their support staff from their customers. > >From what I've heard, the majority of Rogers' staff are not even employees, so what do they care. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 15:18:07 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:18:07 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: >> My guess is this Live Agent is a way for Rogers to conceal the heavy >> accents of their support staff from their customers. Not necessary to read this as Linux hostile, most company's support people are only familiar with Windows, so as long as you can make them feel you are on Windows and translate whatever they are advising to Linux equivalent, you may be fine > > > You mean the heavy Indian accent? I like their accent, it's a little bit > funny sometimes but I like it. > Ha, remind me of an article I read recently about the accent premium. Have a look at it here http://www.economist.com/node/21557350 This part is a little sad for anyone who have accent :( And they aren?t drawn to Manila by cheap labour. Wages in the Philippines are slightly higher than in India since the Filipino accent commands a premium. Regards, William > -- > Ori Idan > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 15:24:09 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:24:09 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FFAF799.9040303@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > Not necessary to read this as Linux hostile, most company's support > people are only familiar with Windows, so as long as you can make them > feel you are on Windows and translate whatever they are advising to > Linux equivalent, you may be fine > Actaully, I've talked to some Linux knowledgeable support people at Rogers. I've always found Rogers support to be far superior Bell's. At least you can understand them and escalate if necessary. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 15:27:44 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:27:44 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FFAF870.4000506@rogers.com> Alejandro Imass wrote: > Most ISPs are like all over the world, not just here. But Rogers blows > in every sense. I wouldn't use them even if they gave me Internet for > free. I have worked with both Rogers and Bell for many business users. Rogers is by far the better. Bell Internet support is *HORRIBLE*. On the personal side, it's been close to 4 years that I stopped doing business with them and I made it quite clear that I don't ever want to get a telemarketing call from them. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 15:41:36 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:41:36 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: <4FFAF05C.1020403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120709154136.GA13234@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 10:53:16AM -0400, Stephen wrote: > I inquired about people who run Linux and I was advised that they had > to use Windows or a MAC to get support. I think this points main problem with Linux. There are only "one" Windows and "one" Mac, whereas there are gazillions Linux. OS version is different issue. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 15:44:11 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:44:11 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: <20120709154136.GA13234-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <20120709154136.GA13234@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4FFAFC4B.4000003@rogers.com> On 12-07-09 11:41 AM, William Park wrote: > On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 10:53:16AM -0400, Stephen wrote: >> I inquired about people who run Linux and I was advised that they had >> to use Windows or a MAC to get support. > > I think this points main problem with Linux. There are only "one" > Windows and "one" Mac, whereas there are gazillions Linux. OS version > is different issue. What happened to JAVA? -- Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 15:56:32 2012 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:56:32 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: <4FFAF870.4000506-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <4FFAF870.4000506@rogers.com> Message-ID: We recently introduced Rogers Communications into our building. Their tech support is so-so, their customer support is a horrible contradiction in terms - and both were clearly North American, probably Canadian. After telling the woman at Customer Support five times that I didn't need a service call to install Rogers Cable as (1) I had it for months as part of a "bulk building" contract and (2) a team of eight techies were downstairs handing out digital converter boxes and (3) tech support said that all Customer Support had to do was register the box on my account, she still insisted I didn't HAVE Rogers Cable and she'd have to schedule a tech to come to my unit. I finally told her I'd solve it myself and marched back downstairs, butted in line and had the techs solve it there - using only a laptop to register the the box on my account properly. Why they employ deaf people on their customer support call desks escapes me. (The reason why the techies were downstairs handing out converter boxes? Apparently Customer Support couldn't figure out how to get us our free digital converter boxes themselves. I despise Rogers.) On 09/07/12 11:27 AM, James Knott wrote: > Alejandro Imass wrote: >> Most ISPs are like all over the world, not just here. But Rogers blows >> in every sense. I wouldn't use them even if they gave me Internet for >> free. > > I have worked with both Rogers and Bell for many business users. > Rogers is by far the better. Bell Internet support is *HORRIBLE*. On > the personal side, it's been close to 4 years that I stopped doing > business with them and I made it quite clear that I don't ever want to > get a telemarketing call from them. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- There are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 15:57:19 2012 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:57:19 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: <4FFAFC4B.4000003-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <20120709154136.GA13234@node1.opengeometry.net> <4FFAFC4B.4000003@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 09/07/12 11:44 AM, Stephen wrote: > On 12-07-09 11:41 AM, William Park wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 10:53:16AM -0400, Stephen wrote: >>> I inquired about people who run Linux and I was advised that they had >>> to use Windows or a MAC to get support. >> >> I think this points main problem with Linux. There are only "one" >> Windows and "one" Mac, whereas there are gazillions Linux. OS version >> is different issue. > > What happened to JAVA? > I drank it. I needed the caffeine. -- There are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 15:59:57 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:59:57 -0400 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: <4FDD0B7D.3020404@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:42 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Intel has apparently abandonded Meego for Tizen. The transition has > been very bad. Qt seems to have been sidelined. There is a Mer > project in which voluteers work forward from Meego. > > A dizzying amuont of branding changes. Who knows about the code. Note that there have been some happenings, of sorts, in the last day... http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/meego-diaspora/ There's a new venture trying to revive Meego. Apparently, a bunch of ex-Nokians are trying to raise capital to build a new phone, venture called Jolla... http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2406831,00.asp http://tech2.in.com/news/smartphones/former-nokia-employees-start-jolla-to-resurrect-the-meego-platform/323162 http://www.itworld.com/mobile-wireless/285216/jolla-rows-away-burning-nokia http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2012/07/09/jolla-meego-smartphone-to-create-a-sustainable-business/ I'm skeptical that mobile carriers will be keen on buying it in any quantity, but it's encouraging that they're trying. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 16:06:15 2012 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:06:15 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: <4FFAF870.4000506-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <4FFAF870.4000506@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 11:27 AM, James Knott wrote: > Alejandro Imass wrote: >> >> Most ISPs are like all over the world, not just here. But Rogers blows >> in every sense. I wouldn't use them even if they gave me Internet for >> free. > > > I have worked with both Rogers and Bell for many business users. Rogers is > by far the better. Bell Internet support is *HORRIBLE*. On the personal > side, it's been close to 4 years that I stopped doing business with them and > I made it quite clear that I don't ever want to get a telemarketing call > from them. > As with all ISPs YMMV. I had the exact same yet opposite experience between Bell and Rogers and found Bell to be the least bad. The Bell fibe network I have now is far superior to anything on cable from Rogers that I have personal contact with. In my personal experience, the Bell fibe network is so blazing fast that when I had recently got it, I hit my cap by downloading XCode several times thinking that it had not downloaded. That was when I had fibe 6, and later bumped it to fibe 12 and I am honestly very happy with Bell, though I must admit I have never had to call support, which I guess says a lot about the Bell network as well. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 16:11:21 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 12:11:21 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <4FFAF870.4000506@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FFB02A9.5080308@rogers.com> Alejandro Imass wrote: > As with all ISPs YMMV. I had the exact same yet opposite experience > between Bell and Rogers and found Bell to be the least bad. The Bell > fibe network I have now is far superior to anything on cable from > Rogers that I have personal contact with. My comments were about the support quality. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 16:36:53 2012 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:36:53 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: <4FFB02A9.5080308-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <4FFAF870.4000506@rogers.com> <4FFB02A9.5080308@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 12:11 PM, James Knott wrote: > Alejandro Imass wrote: >> >> As with all ISPs YMMV. I had the exact same yet opposite experience >> between Bell and Rogers and found Bell to be the least bad. The Bell >> fibe network I have now is far superior to anything on cable from >> Rogers that I have personal contact with. > > > My comments were about the support quality. > Yeah, I can't comment on the Bell support but IMHO all ISP support suck big time, they have their little recipe and what I usually do is diagnose the problem previously and then put them on speaker and do something else whilst I am making them think I am doing what they want me to test and I just follow along like I was using Windows, yet I am actually getting some real work done in a real OS ;-) The trick is to sound like an ignorant final user and get _them_ to work a lot and exhaust their script flowchart and get to the "escalate" box, or simply get tired of hearing "nope, nothing..." and with a little luck and patience you can eventually connect with someone you can actually talk to. If you act like an expert they will give you hell __guaranteed__, and you will _never_ get to the next level. I've done work in many countries and it's always the same crap with all ISPs, but the script exhaustion trick works almost every time, all you have to do is get accross the first couple of layers of help-desk human automata. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 17:04:55 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 20:04:55 +0300 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 6:18 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > >> My guess is this Live Agent is a way for Rogers to conceal the heavy > >> accents of their support staff from their customers. > Not necessary to read this as Linux hostile, most company's support > people are only familiar with Windows, so as long as you can make them > feel you are on Windows and translate whatever they are advising to > Linux equivalent, you may be fine > > > > > > You mean the heavy Indian accent? I like their accent, it's a little bit > > funny sometimes but I like it. > > > Ha, remind me of an article I read recently about the accent premium. > Have a look at it here > > http://www.economist.com/node/21557350 > This part is a little sad for anyone who have accent :( > And they aren?t drawn to Manila by cheap labour. Wages in the > Philippines are slightly higher than in India since the Filipino > accent commands a premium. > > I now live in Israel and since the language spoken here is not English, non of the ISP's or other companies out source the support to other countries. This does not change the fact that customer support and even technical support hardly have any idea of what Linux is and sometimes can't even solve windows related problems :-) -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 17:15:19 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 13:15:19 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Ori Idan wrote: > I now live in Israel and since the language spoken here is not English, non > of the ISP's or other companies out source the support to other countries. > This does not change the fact that customer support and even technical > support hardly have any idea of what Linux is and sometimes can't even solve > windows related problems :-) Interesting... I wonder what happens if you call in to Rogers and say "Bonjour! Est-ce que vous pouvez m'aider?" (Of course, that means you need to have enough conversational French to work your way through your issue! :-).) -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 17:20:35 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 20:20:35 +0300 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Ori Idan wrote: > > I now live in Israel and since the language spoken here is not English, > non > > of the ISP's or other companies out source the support to other > countries. > > This does not change the fact that customer support and even technical > > support hardly have any idea of what Linux is and sometimes can't even > solve > > windows related problems :-) > > Interesting... > > I wonder what happens if you call in to Rogers and say "Bonjour! > Est-ce que vous pouvez m'aider?" > > (Of course, that means you need to have enough conversational French > to work your way through your issue! :-).) > Well I guess Rogers has some French speaking support people. In Israel they mostly have Hebrew speaking support persons, most of them will be able to give you support in English (My Hebrew is good enough so I never tried to talk to them in English) some of them speak also Arabic. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 17:21:46 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 13:21:46 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FFB132A.7080603@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > I wonder what happens if you call in to Rogers and say "Bonjour! > Est-ce que vous pouvez m'aider?" For service in English, please press 1. For service in French, please hang up. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 17:25:13 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 13:25:13 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FFB13F9.50900@ss.org> On 07/09/2012 01:15 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Ori Idan wrote: >> I now live in Israel and since the language spoken here is not English, non >> of the ISP's or other companies out source the support to other countries. >> This does not change the fact that customer support and even technical >> support hardly have any idea of what Linux is and sometimes can't even solve >> windows related problems :-) > > Interesting... > > I wonder what happens if you call in to Rogers and say "Bonjour! > Est-ce que vous pouvez m'aider?" > > (Of course, that means you need to have enough conversational French > to work your way through your issue! :-).) This is actually a very effective strategy. Because of the need to find French support their are a lot of call centres in Montreal and Ottawa, and most of those French speakers also speak English and don't have a problem switching. And this isn't just tech support, I've had it work for The Bay as well. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 17:25:34 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 20:25:34 +0300 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: <4FFB132A.7080603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <4FFB132A.7080603@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 8:21 PM, James Knott wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > >> I wonder what happens if you call in to Rogers and say "Bonjour! >> Est-ce que vous pouvez m'aider?" >> > For service in English, please press 1. > For service in French, please hang up. ;-) For service in French please call Rogers Quibeck :-) -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 17:37:27 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 13:37:27 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: <4FFB132A.7080603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <4FFB132A.7080603@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4FFB16D7.7010607@rogers.com> On 12-07-09 01:21 PM, James Knott wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: >> I wonder what happens if you call in to Rogers and say "Bonjour! >> Est-ce que vous pouvez m'aider?" > For service in English, please press 1. > For service in French, please hang up. ;-) I like to tease Americans that soon they will hear: Para el servicio en espa?ol, por favor, pulse uno -- Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 18:05:10 2012 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 14:05:10 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: <4FFB132A.7080603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <4FFB132A.7080603@rogers.com> Message-ID: My brother-in-law is fluently bilingual. He finds his ISP has better and faster tech support in French. The amusing thing is, he presses 2 for French, then after greeting the guy asks if he speaks English too. The answer is invariably "yes", and the two proceed to happily resolve the problem in Canada's other official language, "Press 1". On 09/07/12 01:21 PM, James Knott wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: >> I wonder what happens if you call in to Rogers and say "Bonjour! >> Est-ce que vous pouvez m'aider?" > For service in English, please press 1. > For service in French, please hang up. ;-) > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- There are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 18:28:56 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 14:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <4FFAF870.4000506@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Alejandro Imass [talking about the product, not the support.] | As with all ISPs YMMV. I had the exact same yet opposite experience | between Bell and Rogers and found Bell to be the least bad. The Bell | fibe network I have now is far superior to anything on cable from | Rogers that I have personal contact with. | | In my personal experience, the Bell fibe network is so blazing fast | that when I had recently got it, I hit my cap by downloading XCode | several times thinking that it had not downloaded. I am amused that you say how good the service is when inadvertantly showing how bad it is: how quickly you hit the cap. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Lmt0BfyYGMw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 18:31:28 2012 From: gyre-Lmt0BfyYGMw at public.gmane.org (Eric B) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 14:31:28 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [NewTlug] Tlug Meeting, 7/10/2012, 7:30 pm] Message-ID: Does anyone know who manages this NewTlug list? I got no response from the mail list and the link below, 'http://tlug.linux.ca', is dead. ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: [NewTlug] Tlug Meeting, 7/10/2012, 7:30 pm From: NewTlug-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org Date: Sun, July 8, 2012 19:31 To: NewTlug-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reminder from: NewTlug Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewTlug/cal Tlug Meeting Tuesday July 10, 2012 7:30 pm - 10:00 pm Notes: Browse to http://tlug.linux.ca and Click "Meetings" to learn the topic, time, place... All Rights Reserved Copyright ?? 2012 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 19:00:04 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 15:00:04 -0400 Subject: Compressed partition or block device? In-Reply-To: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOEHBU+L9ui1Svu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120709190004.GK19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 06:26:55AM -0700, William Park wrote: > I want to try "compressed partition or block device" (just > like RAID or encryption layer) on top of which would go your > regular filesystem.? Is there such thing?? Any keywords > to get me started? That probably exists but could be rather tricky. After all you don't want to just compress the disk from one end to the other, since then any change in the middle would require recompressing everything after it. So that means it needs more of a per block level of compression, but now the question is how to place compressed blocks on the disk in an efficient manner given they will vary in size. Compressed read only is much simpler. Just compress it and store it and decompress pieces as needed on read. Fragmentation and such is a non issue. Read only is of course not likely to be what you want. To some extent due to the size of disks and the overhead and complexity of compression, I really don't think anyone cares much for compression at the block device anymore. Deduplication on the other hand is huge. Compression at the filesystem level rather than block device works better since the filesystem can take care of allocations for the compressed data, and the meta data can stay uncompressed. There are at least patches around for ext2 that does this that are being maintained for current kernel versions. e2compr for example. But other than some 'fuse' program I don't know of anything that works at the block level since it is quite simply the wrong place to do it. You need to handle running out of space if the data doesn't compress which is much easier to do if the filesystem is aware of the compression (and in fact responsible for it). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 20:11:16 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 16:11:16 -0400 Subject: Compressed partition or block device? In-Reply-To: <20120709190004.GK19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120709190004.GK19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4FFB3AE4.5000609@utoronto.ca> On 12-07-09 03:00 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Deduplication on the other hand is huge. > > Compression at the filesystem level rather than block device works better > since the filesystem can take care of allocations for the compressed data, > and the meta data can stay uncompressed. There are at least patches > around for ext2 that does this that are being maintained for current > kernel versions. e2compr for example. > > But other than some 'fuse' program I don't know of anything that works > at the block level since it is quite simply the wrong place to do it. > You need to handle running out of space if the data doesn't compress > which is much easier to do if the filesystem is aware of the compression > (and in fact responsible for it). There is a ZFS port that runs in kernel space, which is actively maintained by Brian Behlendorf (of Apache, Mozilla fame). If someone was going to port ZFS to Linux, he's one of the few I'd expect to be able to do it correctly. It works well since it is a port of ZFS proper. Consider this /sites/git directory that I use on an EXT4 filesystem, it is 479MB: git at zeus:pts/10:/git % du -sh /sites/git 479M /sites/pwp Now look at the same files (copied over with rsync) on a ZFS volume: git at zeus:pts/10:/BACKUPS/git % zfs get compressratio BACKUPS/git NAME PROPERTY VALUE SOURCE BACKUPS/git compressratio 1.24x - git at zeus:pts/10:/BACKUPS/git % du -sh /BACKUPS/git 352M /BACKUPS/git That's a 127mb savings. You can even use disk image files as your zpool devices, so you don't need to use an entire disk or partition if you just want to try things out. http://zfsonlinux.org/ Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 20:24:20 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 16:24:20 -0400 Subject: Compressed partition or block device? In-Reply-To: <20120709190004.GK19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120709190004.GK19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120709202420.GA20029@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 03:00:04PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 06:26:55AM -0700, William Park wrote: > > I want to try "compressed partition or block device" (just > > like RAID or encryption layer) on top of which would go your > > regular filesystem.? Is there such thing?? Any keywords > > to get me started? > > That probably exists but could be rather tricky. > > After all you don't want to just compress the disk from one end to the > other, since then any change in the middle would require recompressing > everything after it. So that means it needs more of a per block level > of compression, but now the question is how to place compressed blocks > on the disk in an efficient manner given they will vary in size. > > ... Hmm, good point. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 20:51:02 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 16:51:02 -0400 Subject: Compressed partition or block device? In-Reply-To: <4FFB3AE4.5000609-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120709190004.GK19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4FFB3AE4.5000609@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20120709205102.GL19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 04:11:16PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > There is a ZFS port that runs in kernel space, which is actively > maintained by Brian Behlendorf (of Apache, Mozilla fame). If someone was > going to port ZFS to Linux, he's one of the few I'd expect to be able to > do it correctly. > > It works well since it is a port of ZFS proper. Consider this /sites/git > directory that I use on an EXT4 filesystem, it is 479MB: > > git at zeus:pts/10:/git % du -sh /sites/git > 479M /sites/pwp > > Now look at the same files (copied over with rsync) on a ZFS volume: > > git at zeus:pts/10:/BACKUPS/git % zfs get compressratio BACKUPS/git > NAME PROPERTY VALUE SOURCE > BACKUPS/git compressratio 1.24x - > > git at zeus:pts/10:/BACKUPS/git % du -sh /BACKUPS/git > 352M /BACKUPS/git > > That's a 127mb savings. > > You can even use disk image files as your zpool devices, so you don't > need to use an entire disk or partition if you just want to try things out. > > http://zfsonlinux.org/ But again that is filesystem compression, not block device compression (which is what was requested). Also the ZFS lincese isn't compatible with the GPL, and hence while you can play with ZFS on your own system, you can't distribute it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 20:53:55 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 16:53:55 -0400 Subject: Compressed partition or block device? In-Reply-To: <20120709205102.GL19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120709190004.GK19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4FFB3AE4.5000609@utoronto.ca> <20120709205102.GL19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4FFB44E3.6020803@utoronto.ca> On 12-07-09 04:51 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 04:11:16PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> There is a ZFS port that runs in kernel space, which is actively >> maintained by Brian Behlendorf (of Apache, Mozilla fame). If someone was >> going to port ZFS to Linux, he's one of the few I'd expect to be able to >> do it correctly. >> >> It works well since it is a port of ZFS proper. Consider this /sites/git >> directory that I use on an EXT4 filesystem, it is 479MB: >> >> git at zeus:pts/10:/git % du -sh /sites/git >> 479M /sites/pwp >> >> Now look at the same files (copied over with rsync) on a ZFS volume: >> >> git at zeus:pts/10:/BACKUPS/git % zfs get compressratio BACKUPS/git >> NAME PROPERTY VALUE SOURCE >> BACKUPS/git compressratio 1.24x - >> >> git at zeus:pts/10:/BACKUPS/git % du -sh /BACKUPS/git >> 352M /BACKUPS/git >> >> That's a 127mb savings. >> >> You can even use disk image files as your zpool devices, so you don't >> need to use an entire disk or partition if you just want to try things out. >> >> http://zfsonlinux.org/ > > But again that is filesystem compression, not block device compression > (which is what was requested). > > Also the ZFS lincese isn't compatible with the GPL, and hence while you > can play with ZFS on your own system, you can't distribute it. > It is block level compression & deduplication. It can be distributed however you please as long as it is not a part of the Linux kernel, since that would be considered a derived work. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 21:15:47 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 17:15:47 -0400 Subject: Compressed partition or block device? In-Reply-To: <20120709202420.GA20029-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120709190004.GK19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120709202420.GA20029@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 4:24 PM, William Park wrote: >> After all you don't want to just compress the disk from one end to the >> other, since then any change in the middle would require recompressing >> everything after it. So that means it needs more of a per block level >> of compression, but now the question is how to place compressed blocks >> on the disk in an efficient manner given they will vary in size. >> ... > > Hmm, good point. There's another issue... If the entire disk was a single compressed stream, then *any* disk failure would lead to utter destruction of the whole filesystem. Generally speaking, later bits are dependent on earlier bits, and so losing a few bits near the beginning means you can't decompress the later material. That's a pretty horrible risk to take! If you compress on a per-file basis, that risk gets spread out so that it's more of a "dull roar" rather than "betting the filesystem." -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 21:22:57 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 17:22:57 -0400 Subject: Compressed partition or block device? In-Reply-To: <4FFB44E3.6020803-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120709190004.GK19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4FFB3AE4.5000609@utoronto.ca> <20120709205102.GL19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4FFB44E3.6020803@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20120709212257.GM19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 04:53:55PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > It is block level compression & deduplication. It can be distributed > however you please as long as it is not a part of the Linux kernel, > since that would be considered a derived work. Distributing as an external module should be OK. At least a number of companies are betting on that being the case. It still isn't what was originally asked for which was: A block device level compression that you could put some random filesystem on top of. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 21:32:50 2012 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 17:32:50 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <4FFAF870.4000506@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 2:28 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Alejandro Imass > > [talking about the product, not the support.] > > | As with all ISPs YMMV. I had the exact same yet opposite experience > | between Bell and Rogers and found Bell to be the least bad. The Bell > | fibe network I have now is far superior to anything on cable from > | Rogers that I have personal contact with. > | > | In my personal experience, the Bell fibe network is so blazing fast > | that when I had recently got it, I hit my cap by downloading XCode > | several times thinking that it had not downloaded. > > I am amused that you say how good the service is when inadvertantly > showing how bad it is: how quickly you hit the cap. At the time I had 25GB cap and that day I downloaded Xcode like 8 times which was around 10GB. Currently I have 50GB and I hardly ever use more than 35GB. I'm not all that against caps because a lot of people abuse the bandwidth so I'd rather have blazing fast speed and have people that use more pay more. Rogers has caps and their cable Internet bandwidth is pretty bad, so I think Bell is a better choice (of course if Bell in your area has fibe). Smaller companies don't have caps but their bandwidth is usually very limited, not always the case though. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 22:48:00 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:48:00 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <4FFAF870.4000506@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120709224800.GA29070@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 05:32:50PM -0400, Alejandro Imass wrote: > At the time I had 25GB cap and that day I downloaded Xcode like 8 > times which was around 10GB. Currently I have 50GB and I hardly ever > use more than 35GB. I'm not all that against caps because a lot of > people abuse the bandwidth so I'd rather have blazing fast speed and > have people that use more pay more. Rogers has caps and their cable > Internet bandwidth is pretty bad, so I think Bell is a better choice > (of course if Bell in your area has fibe). Smaller companies don't > have caps but their bandwidth is usually very limited, not always the > case though. I have Teksavvy Cable. 300GB cap. If you go over that, you need to go out more. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 22:48:35 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 18:48:35 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <4FFAF870.4000506@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120709224835.GN19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 05:32:50PM -0400, Alejandro Imass wrote: > At the time I had 25GB cap and that day I downloaded Xcode like 8 > times which was around 10GB. Currently I have 50GB and I hardly ever > use more than 35GB. I'm not all that against caps because a lot of > people abuse the bandwidth so I'd rather have blazing fast speed and > have people that use more pay more. Rogers has caps and their cable > Internet bandwidth is pretty bad, so I think Bell is a better choice > (of course if Bell in your area has fibe). Smaller companies don't > have caps but their bandwidth is usually very limited, not always the > case though. Well I have a cap of 300GB per month and 25/7Mbps speed, which it certainly delivers. That is using teksavvy running on Bell's fibe network. Of course that means I pay less than Bell would charge, get more, and have tech support with a clue should I ever need them. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 9 23:42:51 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 19:42:51 -0400 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Microsoft=92s_Downfall=3A_Inside_the_Ex?= =?windows-1252?Q?ecutive_E-mails_and_Cannibalistic_Culture_Tha?= =?windows-1252?Q?t_Felled_a_Tech_Giant?= Message-ID: <4FFB6C7B.1060205@rogers.com> This is a link to an article in the current issue if Vanity fair: http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer.print I found this an interesting read. Hope some of you do as well. -- Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 10 02:58:04 2012 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 22:58:04 -0400 Subject: Compressed partition or block device? In-Reply-To: <20120709205102.GL19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120709190004.GK19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4FFB3AE4.5000609@utoronto.ca> <20120709205102.GL19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120710025804.GL32452@adb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Also the ZFS lincese isn't compatible with the GPL, and hence while you > can play with ZFS on your own system, you can't distribute it. Well, you _can_ if your system is running FreeBSD, or whatever OpenSolaris is calling itself this week, but that starts getting off-topic for a Linux list. But then a ZFS+NFS storage box can sit behind a workstation or application server running Linux, or you can run a Linux virtual on one of those systems (Debian GNU/kFreeBSD ought to fit in a FreeBSD jail). And the GPL isn't the only license with interesting teeth; apparently Oracle can't use the latest ZFS and other Solaris stuff from the free community because of CDDL issues. I like being able to snapshot all my stuff in only a few seconds! -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 10 04:21:58 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 21:21:58 -0700 Subject: Compressed partition or block device? In-Reply-To: <20120710025804.GL32452-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120709190004.GK19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4FFB3AE4.5000609@utoronto.ca> <20120709205102.GL19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120710025804.GL32452@adb.ca> Message-ID: reminds me of the old "doublespace" days... On Jul 9, 2012 7:58 PM, "Anthony de Boer" wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Also the ZFS lincese isn't compatible with the GPL, and hence while you > > can play with ZFS on your own system, you can't distribute it. > > Well, you _can_ if your system is running FreeBSD, or whatever > OpenSolaris is calling itself this week, but that starts getting > off-topic for a Linux list. > > But then a ZFS+NFS storage box can sit behind a workstation or > application server running Linux, or you can run a Linux virtual on one > of those systems (Debian GNU/kFreeBSD ought to fit in a FreeBSD jail). > > And the GPL isn't the only license with interesting teeth; apparently > Oracle can't use the latest ZFS and other Solaris stuff from the free > community because of CDDL issues. > > I like being able to snapshot all my stuff in only a few seconds! > > -- > Anthony de Boer > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stan-IWrolz/j94yY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 10 05:07:47 2012 From: stan-IWrolz/j94yY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Stan Witkowski) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 01:07:47 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: <20120709224835.GN19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> <4FFAF870.4000506@rogers.com> <20120709224835.GN19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120710050827.C974DA2C01@lethe.ss.org> At 06:48 PM 2012-07-09, Len Sorensen wrote: >Well I have a cap of 300GB per month and 25/7Mbps speed, which it >certainly delivers. >That is using teksavvy running on Bell's fibe network. Of course that >means I pay less than Bell would charge, get more, and have tech support >with a clue should I ever need them. Agreed. Teksavvy = "actually have a clue". AND during 2am - 8am seven days a week anything you download is not counted against one's cap, so you can actually get (300 GB + much more)!!! Stan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 10 15:34:33 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 11:34:33 -0400 Subject: Compressed partition or block device? In-Reply-To: References: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120709190004.GK19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4FFB3AE4.5000609@utoronto.ca> <20120709205102.GL19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120710025804.GL32452@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20120710153433.GO19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 09:21:58PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > reminds me of the old "doublespace" days... Yep. Doublespace/Drivespace, Stacker, etc. They all had issues with fragmentation because they compressed clusters,j and then stored those in the host FAT filesystem by trying to pack multiple compressed clusters into one cluster. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 11 14:08:48 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:08:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: =?ISO-8859-7?Q?Re=3A_=5BTLUG=5D=3A_Microsoft=A2s_Downfall=3A_Inside_the_Executive_E-mails_and_Cannibalistic_Culture_That_Felled_a_Tech_Giant?= In-Reply-To: <4FFB6C7B.1060205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFB6C7B.1060205@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Stephen | This is a link to an article in the current issue if Vanity fair: | | http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer.print Actually it is a link to a teaser for an article. I think you have to buy the paper copy to read it. But maybe there is a way you can pay to read an electronic copy. Or maybe you can wait for some cooling-off period and then the article will appear online. In that teaser was a link to an excerpt of Paul Allen's memoir. I thought that was interesting. The excerpt is an article from the May issue. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 11 15:41:45 2012 From: jamesemcintosh-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Mcintosh) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 08:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtUTFVHXTogTWljcm9zb2Z04oCZcyBEb3duZmFsbDogSW5zaWRlIHRo?= =?utf-8?B?ZSBFeGVjdXRpdmUgRS1tYWlscyBhbmQgQ2FubmliYWxpc3RpYyBDdWx0dXJl?= =?utf-8?B?IFRoYXQgRmVsbGVkIGEgVGVjaCBHaWFudA==?= In-Reply-To: References: <4FFB6C7B.1060205@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1342021305.35304.YahooMailNeo@web140704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The article (or excerpt of the article) mentions "stack ranking", the compelled rating of employees, and its harmful effects. ? I doubt that this process is unique to Microsoft. ? I think that I first heard of it about Wang, and business periodicals praised it back when Wang seemed to have potential. ? In terms of technology, their operating system was superior to IBM's DOS/VSE and MVS, and their COBOL was superior to IBM's COBOL and CICS. ? James E. McIntosh JamesEMcIntosh-Iimme/3Z544 at public.gmane.orgm From: D. Hugh Redelmeier To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:08:48 AM Subject: [TLUG]: Re: [TLUG]: Microsoft?s Downfall: Inside the Executive E-mails and Cannibalistic Culture That Felled a Tech Giant | From: Stephen | This is a link to an article in the current issue if Vanity fair: | | http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer.print Actually it is a link to a teaser for an article.? I think you have to buy the paper copy to read it.? But maybe there is a way you can pay to read an electronic copy.? Or maybe you can wait for some cooling-off period and then the article will appear online. In that teaser was a link to an excerpt of Paul Allen's memoir.? I thought that was interesting.? The excerpt is an article from the May issue. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 11 15:47:29 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 11:47:29 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: =?UTF-8?B?TWljcm9zb2Z04oCZcyBEb3duZmFsbDo=?= =?UTF-8?B?IEluc2lkZSB0aGUgRXhlY3V0aXZlIEUtbWFpbHMgYW5kIENhbm5pYmFsaXN0aWM=?= =?UTF-8?B?IEN1bHR1cmUgVGhhdCBGZWxsZWQgYSBUZWNoIEdpYW50?= In-Reply-To: <1342021305.35304.YahooMailNeo-WXK5sLB/SxjK0anN2EpufZEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFB6C7B.1060205@rogers.com> <1342021305.35304.YahooMailNeo@web140704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4FFDA011.7020302@rogers.com> James Mcintosh wrote: > I think that I first heard of it about Wang, and business periodicals > praised it back when Wang seemed to have potential. Where is Wang these day??? Also, there have been many destructive business practices that have been praised over the years. They sounded good at the time, but in retrospect were not so good in the long run. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 11 16:02:36 2012 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:02:36 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: =?UTF-8?Q?Microsoft=E2=80=99s?= Downfall: Inside the Executive E-mails and Cannibalistic Culture That Felled a Tech Giant In-Reply-To: <1342021305.35304.YahooMailNeo-WXK5sLB/SxjK0anN2EpufZEhsgyP+Z75VpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <4FFB6C7B.1060205@rogers.com> <1342021305.35304.YahooMailNeo@web140704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1342022556.2466.10.camel@tecumseth3> On Wed, 2012-07-11 at 08:41 -0700, James Mcintosh wrote: > The article (or excerpt of the article) mentions "stack ranking", the > compelled rating of employees, and its harmful effects. > > I doubt that this process is unique to Microsoft. > > I think that I first heard of it about Wang, and business periodicals > praised it back when Wang seemed to have potential. In academia it's called "grading on the curve". On reflection, it's a very strange thing to do. When Laplace started putting probability theory together, he was dealing explicitly with gambling, and physics in a big world, and situations generally where information had to be incomplete. Why use it in situations where you know as much as can be known? The employees are right there; the students are right there; the year's results are right there. Calling on probability is a tacit admission that you're only guessing at the output of your own process. Some time ago nakedcapitalism.com got up-in-arms about financial regulations that tried to treat policy implementation as though it were something like industrial materials handling. Regulations stipulated that if instances of fraud fell below a certain rate, then legal action would not be taken. Astonishing! Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 11 17:40:58 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 13:40:58 -0400 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_=5BTLUG=5D=3A_Re=3A_=5BTLUG=5D=3A_Microsoft=92s_Downfall=3A_Insi?= =?windows-1252?Q?de_the_Executive_E=2Dmails_and_Cannibalistic_Culture_That_Fell?= =?windows-1252?Q?ed_a_Tech_Giant?= In-Reply-To: <1342022556.2466.10.camel@tecumseth3> References: <4FFB6C7B.1060205@rogers.com> <1342021305.35304.YahooMailNeo@web140704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1342022556.2466.10.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: Hi, -0700, James Mcintosh wrote: > > The article (or excerpt of the article) mentions "stack ranking", the > > compelled rating of employees, and its harmful effects. > > > > I doubt that this process is unique to Microsoft. > > > > I think that I first heard of it about Wang, and business periodicals > > praised it back when Wang seemed to have potential. > > In academia it's called "grading on the curve". > > On reflection, it's a very strange thing to do. When Laplace started > putting probability theory together, he was dealing explicitly with > gambling, and physics in a big world, and situations generally where > information had to be incomplete. Why use it in situations where you > know as much as can be known? The employees are right there; the > students are right there; the year's results are right there. Calling > on probability is a tacit admission that you're only guessing at the > output of your own process. Very good observations here. When I read the article last week, it reminded me of Jack Welsh of General Electric. The guy took this to a whole new level. There is some business books out praising his management skills and the market at that time thought it was a great idea too. When I read about it back at business school, I thought it was not a good idea and always suspect GE could be even better long run if they did not have Welsh as CEO. Market and actually even governments are short minded these days and no one want to think long term. I always swing my head when I hear someone talking about efficiency to the extreme, I mean the 5 sigma stuff. Take a case of Volkswagen, they are doing great because they looked at thing long term even when it was not profitable then. Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say is these guys should give Microsoft a break. History is full of companies that made the same mistakes and they wrote how great an idea it was. Microsoft problems are external and these internal problems would not be a big deal if external factors were not too bad. And you can't expect every CEO to win as Job. That is to repeat the same mistake the article is whining about. Regards William > > Some time ago nakedcapitalism.com got up-in-arms about financial > regulations that tried to treat policy implementation as though it were > something like industrial materials handling. Regulations stipulated > that if instances of fraud fell below a certain rate, then legal action > would not be taken. Astonishing! > > Mel. > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 11 17:54:43 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 13:54:43 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: Re: =?utf-8?B?W1RM?= =?utf-8?Q?UG=5D=3A_Microsoft=E2=80=99s_Downfall=3A_Inside_the_Executiv?= =?utf-8?Q?e?= E-mails and Cannibalistic Culture That Felled a Tech Giant In-Reply-To: References: <4FFB6C7B.1060205@rogers.com> <1342021305.35304.YahooMailNeo@web140704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1342022556.2466.10.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <20120711175443.GP19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 01:40:58PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Very good observations here. When I read the article last week, it reminded > me of Jack Welsh of General Electric. The guy took this to a whole new > level. There is some business books out praising his management skills and > the market at that time thought it was a great idea too. When I read about > it back at business school, I thought it was not a good idea and always > suspect GE could be even better long run if they did not have Welsh as CEO. > > Market and actually even governments are short minded these days and no one > want to think long term. I always swing my head when I hear someone talking > about efficiency to the extreme, I mean the 5 sigma stuff. Take a case of > Volkswagen, they are doing great because they looked at thing long term > even when it was not profitable then. > > Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say is these guys should give > Microsoft a break. History is full of companies that made the same > mistakes and they wrote how great an idea it was. > > Microsoft problems are external and these internal problems would not be a > big deal if external factors were not too bad. And you can't expect every > CEO to win as Job. That is to repeat the same mistake the article is > whining about. Well Windows 8 (the UI part of it specificly) is as obviously a bad idea as the Pentium 4 was. It is simply obvious looking at it that it is a bad idea. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 11 20:49:22 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 16:49:22 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: Re: [TLUG]: =?windows-1252?Q?Microsoft=92?= =?windows-1252?Q?s_Downfall=3A_Inside_the_Executive_E-mails_?= =?windows-1252?Q?and_Cannibalistic_Culture_That_Felled_a_Tec?= =?windows-1252?Q?h_Giant?= In-Reply-To: References: <4FFB6C7B.1060205@rogers.com> <1342021305.35304.YahooMailNeo@web140704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1342022556.2466.10.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <4FFDE6D2.9010201@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > Very good observations here. When I read the article last week, it > reminded me of Jack Welsh of General Electric. The guy took this to a > whole new level. There is some business books out praising his > management skills and the market at that time thought it was a great > idea too. When I read about it back at business school, I thought it > was not a good idea and always suspect GE could be even better long > run if they did not have Welsh as CEO. He has apparently since realized he was wrong back then -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 12 16:47:39 2012 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:47:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Downloading tariff supreme court ruling Message-ID: Is this ruling good or bad? I understand that it curbs some extra tariffs charged previously for downloading material? http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/12/supreme-court-rules-no-tariffs- for-downloading-music/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 12 16:55:01 2012 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:55:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: Christopher Browne writes: > Interesting... > I wonder what happens if you call in to Rogers and say "Bonjour! > Est-ce que vous pouvez m'aider?" That begs 'la question', where Quebec telecoms outsource their support to. I read something about French Polynesia being really big on phone support. Would be nice to measure ping time to the remote site using some half covert method (clap once and listen for the echo which will be very faint or absent, and several tens of msec later if using a sat link or 6000km of fiber both ways). -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 12 17:08:57 2012 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:08:57 -0400 Subject: Rogers goes Linux Hostile In-Reply-To: References: <4FFAF05C.1020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: Last I checked, videotron's was still in QC. At least, they were when I was a sub. They too had terrible customer service. Is there a big telco that doesn't?? On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Peter wrote: > Christopher Browne writes: > > Interesting... > > I wonder what happens if you call in to Rogers and say "Bonjour! > > Est-ce que vous pouvez m'aider?" > > That begs 'la question', where Quebec telecoms outsource their support to. > I > read something about French Polynesia being really big on phone support. > Would > be nice to measure ping time to the remote site using some half covert > method > (clap once and listen for the echo which will be very faint or absent, and > several tens of msec later if using a sat link or 6000km of fiber both > ways). > > -- Peter > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 12 17:27:03 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:27:03 -0400 Subject: UoT and Internet security Message-ID: Hey Came across this and thought I share for those who would want to get involved. Looks interesting though I honestly did not understand what they are offering https://citizenlab.org/2012/06/university-of-torontos-canada-centre-and-citizen-lab-announce-the-cyber-stewards-program/ I have noticed a couple of people here work for University of Toronto, would you know what they are offering from above? Security training? Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 12 18:05:46 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:05:46 -0400 Subject: Intel GMA500 Poulsbo works with recent kernels. Message-ID: <20120712180546.GA3613@waltdnes.org> Many linux users who bought early netbooks with Intel GMA Poulsbo GPUs ended up kicking themselves in the rear. If you got rid of yours, you may end up kicking yourself in the rear even more. According to http://blog.bodhizazen.net/linux/linux-gma500-poulsbo-driver-moved-out-of-staging/ ================================================================== Good news for people with an Intel GMA500 (Poulsbo) graphics card, support is now in the mainline Linux kernel. In the Linux 3.3-rc1 (mainline) kernel the driver has moved out of staging and re-named. It is now located under Device Drivers -> Graphics support -> DRM (Direct Rendering Manager) -> Intel GMA5/600 KMS Framebuffer and is now called "gma500_gfx". Once the kernel team with your distribution of choice makes the adjustment, the GMA500 should work "out of the box" on any Linux Distribution using kernel 3.3 or higher. ================================================================== I run Gentoo linux. Since the latest stable gentoo-sources is 3.2.21, I keyworded 3.3.8 and ran "emerge --sync" on my brick^H^H^H^H old netbook and built the kernel with the options indicated above. ***IMPORTANT*** I had to emerge x11-drivers/xf86-video-fbdev as the X11 video driver. I believe that x11-drivers/xf86-video-psb is the old deprecated Poulsbo driver... and I never could get the bleeping thing to build anyways. Initial quick review... 1) It woiks!!! The netbook is now displaying 1366x768. 2) No xorg.conf required. And udev is not sniffing anything out, because the machine is running on mdev. 3) Performance is decent for an early Atom. I used Youtube for quick-n-dirty torture testing... - 480p Youtube videos are OK, even at fullscreen - 720p Youtube videos are OK on the standard player and large player, but stutter slightly at fullscreen - 1080p - fuggedaboutit 4) Getting brightness control, etc, to work is still hit-and-miss. 5) Hibernate (suspend-to-disk) does not work. Reading comments at the blog, that appears to be a known problem with the GPU and the kernel driver. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 12 18:47:28 2012 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:47:28 -0400 Subject: Downloading tariff supreme court ruling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Peter wrote: > Is this ruling good or bad? I understand that it curbs some extra tariffs > charged previously for downloading material? > > http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/12/supreme-court-rules-no-tariffs- > for-downloading-music/ I won't have a chance to seriously look at the SCC decisions until tonight, but the answer to your question will almost certainly depend on who you ask and what their views on copyright are, sensible or otherwise. My initial thoughts are that this is good for consumers and for online music in general. Copyright collectives, lobbyists, as well as a number of artists and labels are not likely be impressed. I'm sure there will be much more thorough analysis done (for and against) from better qualified people and online in the next day or two. -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 12 18:57:14 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 14:57:14 -0400 Subject: Downloading tariff supreme court ruling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120712185714.GA3723@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 04:47:39PM +0000, Peter wrote > Is this ruling good or bad? I understand that it curbs some extra > tariffs charged previously for downloading material? > > http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/12/supreme-court-rules-no-tariffs-for-downloading-music/ The headline is a bit misleading. More info at http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/07/12/pol-supreme-court-copyright-rulings.html I see it as a triumph for common sense. When phone a store and buy a CD, or a videogame with music on it, the artists/sonwriters/etc are compensated for each copy by the music companies and videogame publishers respectively. Everybody agrees that should be the case. But, nobody seriously argues that the store should pay an additional tariff for the act of delivering the music to you via mail or courier. But the Canadian Copyright Board ruled that online stores that deliver the music (or video games containing music) should pay *A SECOND ROYALTY* (i.e. streaming) for the act of delivery. That is double-dipping. This is not like an "internet readio" streaming service where the only royalty is for the streaming. To summarize... downloading via the internet as part of a transaction is *NOT* subject to a second royalty for "internet streaming". What we need is a shakeup of the Copyright Board. They seem to have been doing a lot of money-grabs recently, that have to be fought all the way to the Supreme Court. Since they're government-funded, they don't care about the costs of litigation. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 12 20:57:29 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:57:29 -0400 Subject: Downloading tariff supreme court ruling In-Reply-To: <20120712185714.GA3723-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120712185714.GA3723@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4FFF3A39.5070909@sobac.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12-07-12 02:57 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > To summarize... downloading via the internet as part of a > transaction is *NOT* subject to a second royalty for "internet > streaming". Technically, there is no difference between "streaming" and "downloading". The difference lies in the client software used to receive the bits coming down the pipe, and in some minor sense, the software used to put those bits on the pipe. So, those people who can "stream" their music from a "download" site don't need to pay this royalty, but people who "download" their music from a "streaming" site do. I haven't yet read the decision either, but I'm interested in the definitions the Court applies to "streaming" and "downloading". And for those citationists among you, here's Cory Doctorow on the subject: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/dec/08/music-streaming-cory-doctorow - --Bob. On 12-07-12 02:57 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 04:47:39PM +0000, Peter wrote >> Is this ruling good or bad? I understand that it curbs some >> extra tariffs charged previously for downloading material? >> >> http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/12/supreme-court-rules-no-tariffs-for-downloading-music/ > >> >> >> > The headline is a bit misleading. More info at > http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/07/12/pol-supreme-court-copyright-rulings.html > > > > I see it as a triumph for common sense. When phone a store and buy a > CD, or a videogame with music on it, the artists/sonwriters/etc > are compensated for each copy by the music companies and videogame > publishers respectively. Everybody agrees that should be the > case. > > But, nobody seriously argues that the store should pay an > additional tariff for the act of delivering the music to you via > mail or courier. But the Canadian Copyright Board ruled that > online stores that deliver the music (or video games containing > music) should pay *A SECOND ROYALTY* (i.e. streaming) for the act > of delivery. That is double-dipping. This is not like an > "internet readio" streaming service where the only royalty is for > the streaming. > > To summarize... downloading via the internet as part of a > transaction is *NOT* subject to a second royalty for "internet > streaming". What we need is a shakeup of the Copyright Board. They > seem to have been doing a lot of money-grabs recently, that have to > be fought all the way to the Supreme Court. Since they're > government-funded, they don't care about the costs of litigation. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability iEYEARECAAYFAk//OjgACgkQuRKJsNLM5erz1ACgytWE5kd0huTXOZWGS2aB1lp2 auQAn1fZfsI+1vlITcyM/Tf6J3xhOB9N =G2ns -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 12 21:42:58 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 17:42:58 -0400 Subject: Downloading tariff supreme court ruling In-Reply-To: <4FFF3A39.5070909-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20120712185714.GA3723@waltdnes.org> <4FFF3A39.5070909@sobac.com> Message-ID: <20120712214258.GA4129@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 04:57:29PM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 12-07-12 02:57 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > To summarize... downloading via the internet as part of a > > transaction is *NOT* subject to a second royalty for "internet > > streaming". > > Technically, there is no difference between "streaming" and > "downloading". The difference lies in the client software used to > receive the bits coming down the pipe, and in some minor sense, the > software used to put those bits on the pipe. > > So, those people who can "stream" their music from a "download" site > don't need to pay this royalty, but people who "download" their music > from a "streaming" site do. The whole point is that there should be only one royalty levied for the transaction. You pay either the downloading royalty or the streaming royalty, but not both. The major difference between streaming and downloading is that... * streaming - you hear music once "live" or "realtime" and that's it * downloading - you download a file once, and keep it. You can play it back later, as often as you want You get into shades of grey with Youtube, where a file gets downloaded to your browser's cache and played back, to look like streaming. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 13 00:44:26 2012 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:44:26 -0400 Subject: raspberry pi exhibit at rhpl Message-ID: I've presumptuously offered to show off the Raspberry Pi at the Richmond Hill Public Library Technology Fair on September 15. Worse, I've been accepted. Please see my plea for help at: http://www.meetup.com/Raspberry-Pi/events/73044222/ Thanks. John Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 13 01:29:19 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: UoT and Internet security In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi | Came across this and thought I share for those who would want to get | involved. Looks interesting though I honestly did not understand what | they are offering | | https://citizenlab.org/2012/06/university-of-torontos-canada-centre-and-citizen-lab-announce-the-cyber-stewards-program/ Most of us are not invited since we don't live in the Global South (Central America, Caribbean, South America, sub-Saharan Africa, Middle East and North Africa, and Asia). | I have noticed a couple of people here work for University of Toronto, | would you know what they are offering from above? Security training? The thing is worded very awkwardly. Full of jargon. They are offering some help for "South-based scholars and practitioners". They don't completely say what the help is for since they think that it is more empowering for those SBS&P folks to determine their own goals, agendas, etc. I think that I know what they are trying to do from reading the document and from what I think I know about the Citizen Lab. Generally speaking, they do interesting things that I support. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 14 01:31:44 2012 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:31:44 -0400 Subject: kind of off-topic: Sex-crazed penguins in Antarctica caused Edwardian angst Message-ID: <20120713213144.6592690e@herring_sucker.example.org> I don't know: they sound like the average Linux geek. ;-> http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1226127--sex-crazed-penguins-in-antarctica-caused-edwardian-angst -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org gstrom57-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 15 00:15:38 2012 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 20:15:38 -0400 Subject: More Allwinner A10 Goodness Message-ID: Similar specs to the MK802 Android/Linux stick presented at Tuesday's GTALUG Android talk ... this one includes a remote: http://liliputing.com/2012/07/mini-x-tv-box-runs-android-linux-for-under-100.html -- http://www.circuidipity.com .~. / /V\ // \\ /( )\ ^`~`^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 15 07:55:49 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 03:55:49 -0400 Subject: Scheduling lockup crash? Message-ID: <20120715075549.GA16660@amber> I'm trying to diagnose a computer problem at a distance. Periodically, under heavy cpu usage (which also raise its core temperature), it seems to lock up and exhibit other distressing symptoms; and I find in my logfiles the following message repeated many many times: Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200303] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU { 2} (t=60001 jiffies) Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200310] Pid: 27468, comm: sh Not tainted 3.4.4-gentoo #1 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200311] Call Trace: Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200313] [] __rcu_pending+0xab/0x39c Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200323] [] rcu_check_callbacks+0x69/0xa7 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200327] [] update_process_times+0x3c/0x73 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200331] [] tick_sched_timer+0x6d/0x96 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200335] [] __run_hrtimer+0xb4/0x13d Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200337] [] ? tick_nohz_handler+0xd6/0xd6 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200340] [] hrtimer_interrupt+0xcf/0x192 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200344] [] smp_apic_timer_interrupt+0x72/0x85 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200348] [] apic_timer_interrupt+0x67/0x70 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200349] [] ? rb_insert_color+0x61/0xe1 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200354] [] ? rb_insert_color+0xb8/0xe1 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200358] [] __vma_link_rb+0x2b/0x2d Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200361] [] dup_mm+0x2e0/0x440 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200363] [] copy_process+0x987/0x1224 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200365] [] do_fork+0xeb/0x25a Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200368] [] ? __set_task_blocked+0x61/0x68 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200371] [] ? need_resched+0x1e/0x28 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200373] [] ? should_resched+0x9/0x29 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200376] [] sys_clone+0x23/0x25 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200378] [] stub_clone+0x13/0x20 Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200380] [] ? system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b Jul 12 16:38:23 machine kernel: [339379.902578] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU { 2} (t=240004 jiffies) Jul 12 16:38:23 machine kernel: [339379.902581] Pid: 27468, comm: sh Not tainted 3.4.4-gentoo #1 Jul 12 16:38:23 machine kernel: [339379.902585] Call Trace: Jul 12 16:38:23 machine kernel: [339379.902586] [] __rcu_pending+0xab/0x39c Jul 12 16:38:23 machine kernel: [339379.902590] [] rcu_check_callbacks+0x69/0xa7 Jul 12 16:38:23 machine kernel: [339379.902592] [] update_process_times+0x3c/0x73 . . . Until, after at least forty or so iterations at three-minute intervals (why?), I get what looks like a segfault. Then the machine has to be rebooted by hand, at which point it is fine -- until it goes under heavy cpu load again. It looks like the relevant information is found in "rcu_sched self-detected stall" on CPU 2 (it's an AMD Phenom quad-core). Can someone explain to me just how that translates into operational English? Is it the kernel's way of saying, time to buy a new computer? or, perhaps, congratulations on finding a compiler bug? or something else? I have run memtester at a distance, and in the second loop I did get some failures -- but this might be attributable to high temperature. Or maybe not. When I get physically close to the machine again I'll try swapping out the memory. But this error doesn't look like it's caused by the memory... -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 15 13:00:32 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 09:00:32 -0400 Subject: Compressed partition or block device? In-Reply-To: <20120710153433.GO19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1341840415.83320.YahooMailNeo@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120709190004.GK19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4FFB3AE4.5000609@utoronto.ca> <20120709205102.GL19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120710025804.GL32452@adb.ca> <20120710153433.GO19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 10 July 2012 11:34, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jul 09, 2012 at 09:21:58PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> reminds me of the old "doublespace" days... > > Yep. Doublespace/Drivespace, Stacker, etc. > > They all had issues with fragmentation because they compressed clusters,j > and then stored those in the host FAT filesystem by trying to pack > multiple compressed clusters into one cluster. > http://video.linux.com/videos/btrfs-filesystem-status-and-new-features Not a solution for what was originally asked but somehow related and you may find it very interesting. William > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 15 13:11:44 2012 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 09:11:44 -0400 Subject: Back to DR-DOS again Message-ID: <50028950.5583.2A112A3@sciguy.vex.net> Hello The machine in question has an ASUS K7SOM+ motherboard supporting an AMD Athlon dual core processor. I have had this machine for at least 5- 7 years. The BIOS seemed to have reset itself as it rebooted today, and I was greeted with DR-DOS, and A: as the default drive. And no, I had no floppies in A:. Resetting the BIOS to "hard drive" as the first boot disk fixed it. In DR-DOS, I could see C: drive. but I didn't try to do too much with it. I am concluding that it must have been a virtual drive, but does anyone know where it could have come from? I imagine it must have been stored on a rom chip somewhere on the MB, but where? In the BIOS? Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 15 17:03:08 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 13:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Back to DR-DOS again In-Reply-To: <50028950.5583.2A112A3-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <50028950.5583.2A112A3@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: | From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org | I imagine it must have been stored on a rom chip somewhere on the MB, | but where? In the BIOS? Did you have a CDROM in the drive? El-Torito booting can optionally fake a floppy for booting. DOS isn't too good at large disks. Or cdroms. There are variouis work-arounds. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 16 04:23:27 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 00:23:27 -0400 Subject: How do I set email attachment reading by extension? Message-ID: <20120716042327.GA12123@waltdnes.org> I use epdfview to read pdf docs. Earlier this year, Teksavvy's email senser switched from "application/pdf" to "application/octet-stream". Here's how the old and new formats look at the bottom of mutt... [-- Attachment #2: ARRCPT.pdf --] [-- Type: application/pdf, Encoding: base64, Size: 47K --] [-- application/pdf is unsupported (use 'v' to view this part) --] [-- Attachment #2: TekSavvy_Invoice_CIDXXXXX_20120725.pdf --] [-- Type: application/octet-stream, Encoding: base64, Size: 104K --] [-- application/octet-stream is unsupported (use 'v' to view this part) --] Trying to read the application/pdf launches epdfview, and can read the invoice. The newer application/octet-stream version fails. I merely comes out as binary gobbledygook. What can I set on my system to force reading by extension, rather than "application/whatever"? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 16 12:51:40 2012 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 08:51:40 -0400 Subject: Scheduling lockup crash? In-Reply-To: <20120715075549.GA16660@amber> References: <20120715075549.GA16660@amber> Message-ID: This appears to be a logic failure in core 2 of the cpu, as indicated by the End Of Interrupt "rb_insert_color". Most probably heat related as you indicate the problem just started happening. In the short term when you have physical access you could try under-clocking the cpu and see if the problem persists. You could also try beefing up the cpu cooling or just applying a new layer of thermal bond between the existing cpu and heat sync. In my mind heat problems in integrated components are either environmental or entropic. My thought is that this would be how a microscopic flaw in manufacturing would expose itself prior to exhibiting more serious End Of Life indications. Without knowing the unit history I can't say much more other that it might be time to replace the cpu. Hope this helps Russell On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 3:55 AM, Peter King wrote: > I'm trying to diagnose a computer problem at a distance. Periodically, > under heavy cpu usage (which also raise its core temperature), it seems > to lock up and exhibit other distressing symptoms; and I find in my > logfiles the following message repeated many many times: > > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200303] INFO: rcu_sched > self-detected stall on CPU { 2} (t=60001 jiffies) > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200310] Pid: 27468, comm: sh Not > tainted 3.4.4-gentoo #1 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200311] Call Trace: > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200313] > [] __rcu_pending+0xab/0x39c > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200323] [] > rcu_check_callbacks+0x69/0xa7 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200327] [] > update_process_times+0x3c/0x73 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200331] [] > tick_sched_timer+0x6d/0x96 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200335] [] > __run_hrtimer+0xb4/0x13d > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200337] [] ? > tick_nohz_handler+0xd6/0xd6 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200340] [] > hrtimer_interrupt+0xcf/0x192 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200344] [] > smp_apic_timer_interrupt+0x72/0x85 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200348] [] > apic_timer_interrupt+0x67/0x70 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200349] > [] ? rb_insert_color+0x61/0xe1 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200354] [] ? > rb_insert_color+0xb8/0xe1 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200358] [] > __vma_link_rb+0x2b/0x2d > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200361] [] > dup_mm+0x2e0/0x440 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200363] [] > copy_process+0x987/0x1224 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200365] [] > do_fork+0xeb/0x25a > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200368] [] ? > __set_task_blocked+0x61/0x68 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200371] [] ? > need_resched+0x1e/0x28 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200373] [] ? > should_resched+0x9/0x29 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200376] [] > sys_clone+0x23/0x25 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200378] [] > stub_clone+0x13/0x20 > Jul 12 16:35:23 machine kernel: [339200.200380] [] ? > system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b > Jul 12 16:38:23 machine kernel: [339379.902578] INFO: rcu_sched > self-detected stall on CPU { 2} (t=240004 jiffies) > Jul 12 16:38:23 machine kernel: [339379.902581] Pid: 27468, comm: sh Not > tainted 3.4.4-gentoo #1 > Jul 12 16:38:23 machine kernel: [339379.902585] Call Trace: > Jul 12 16:38:23 machine kernel: [339379.902586] > [] __rcu_pending+0xab/0x39c > Jul 12 16:38:23 machine kernel: [339379.902590] [] > rcu_check_callbacks+0x69/0xa7 > Jul 12 16:38:23 machine kernel: [339379.902592] [] > update_process_times+0x3c/0x73 > . > . > . > > Until, after at least forty or so iterations at three-minute intervals > (why?), > I get what looks like a segfault. Then the machine has to be rebooted by > hand, at which point it is fine -- until it goes under heavy cpu load > again. > > It looks like the relevant information is found in "rcu_sched self-detected > stall" on CPU 2 (it's an AMD Phenom quad-core). Can someone explain to me > just > how that translates into operational English? Is it the kernel's way of > saying, > time to buy a new computer? or, perhaps, congratulations on finding a > compiler > bug? or something else? > > I have run memtester at a distance, and in the second loop I did get some > failures -- but this might be attributable to high temperature. Or maybe > not. When I get physically close to the machine again I'll try swapping out > the memory. But this error doesn't look like it's caused by the memory... > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 16 16:12:57 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Intel GMA500 Poulsbo works with recent kernels. In-Reply-To: <20120712180546.GA3613-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120712180546.GA3613@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | Many linux users who bought early netbooks with Intel GMA Poulsbo GPUs | ended up kicking themselves in the rear. If you got rid of yours, you | may end up kicking yourself in the rear even more. According to | http://blog.bodhizazen.net/linux/linux-gma500-poulsbo-driver-moved-out-of-staging/ My understanding is that this is frame-buffer-only (with kernel mode switching). A big step forward, but no acceleration. This is important because Intel is starting to integrate this on-chip with the Atom. If you care about video in the Atom space, ION is better. (Expensive, probably eats more power, not common except for HTPC) Or get an AMD CPU+GPU chip (C-60 or E-350). (Not very available but I don't understand why.) Or get a low power i3 system (more money). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 16 16:55:25 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:55:25 -0400 Subject: Intel GMA500 Poulsbo works with recent kernels. In-Reply-To: References: <20120712180546.GA3613@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <5004477D.80409@ss.org> On 07/16/2012 12:12 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Or get an AMD CPU+GPU chip (C-60 or E-350). (Not very available but I > don't understand why.) E-350 has been replaced with the E-450 (it's mainly a die revision with very so slight better specs.) Also, I pretty sure that this chips are only coming in BGA packages (ie. not meant for pin sockets) which means they are soldered to the main-board. This means you best place to look for them is in laptops or miniITX boards. Like so: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_CPU_on_Board http://www.zotac.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=182&Itemid=100308&lang=en -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 16 17:48:21 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Intel GMA500 Poulsbo works with recent kernels. In-Reply-To: <5004477D.80409-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20120712180546.GA3613@waltdnes.org> <5004477D.80409@ss.org> Message-ID: | From: Scott Sullivan | | On 07/16/2012 12:12 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Or get an AMD CPU+GPU chip (C-60 or E-350). (Not very available but I | > don't understand why.) | | E-350 has been replaced with the E-450 (it's mainly a die revision with very | so slight better specs.) Right. | Also, I pretty sure that this chips are only coming in BGA packages (ie. not | meant for pin sockets) which means they are soldered to the main-board. This | means you best place to look for them is in laptops or miniITX boards. Right. Sorry that I wasn't clearer. Just like Atom. Actually the Atom is worse: it comes with a licensing agreement which limits what you (the OEM board-maker) can allow the system to do. The E-350 and E-450 chips take a fair bit more power than the atom (double?) and have better performance. So the C-60 is a better parallel. I have a netbook with a C-50. | http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_CPU_on_Board | http://www.zotac.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=182&Itemid=100308&lang=en I see a fair number of low-end laptops with E-450. My impression is that its CPU performs more like an Atom than an i3. We have three of these E-350 based nettops: I really liked them at $100 (no RAM, no HDD) last year but I'm not quite as excited at $166 (current Newegg.ca price including shipping). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 16 19:40:05 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:40:05 -0400 Subject: Scheduling lockup crash? In-Reply-To: References: <20120715075549.GA16660@amber> Message-ID: <20120716194005.GA20993@amber> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 08:51:40AM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: > This appears to be a logic failure in core 2 of the cpu, as indicated > by the End Of Interrupt "rb_insert_color". Most probably heat related > as you indicate the problem just started happening. > > In the short term when you have physical access you could try > under-clocking the cpu and see if the problem persists. You could also > try beefing up the cpu cooling or just applying a new layer of thermal > bond between the existing cpu and heat sync. > In my mind heat problems in integrated components are either > environmental or entropic. My thought is that this would be how a > microscopic flaw in manufacturing would expose itself prior to > exhibiting more serious End Of Life indications. Without knowing the > unit history I can't say much more other that it might be time to > replace the cpu. Thanks. The machine has shown mild signs of flakiness in the past when called upon for CPU-intensive tasks (say compiling gcc) -- random segfaults that would go away if I let it cool down a bit. Now it glitches on compiling gimp or some qt libraries. Mind you, it has been a hot summer, and the ambient temperature in the room in which it is located is about 26C. But lm-sensors doesn't show an abnormally high core temperature. I'll try to cool it down to see whether that matters, but it sounds like it's time to think about getting a more reliable (and well-cooled) computer. Time to post a general query. Thanks for the help! -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 17 07:40:50 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 03:40:50 -0400 Subject: Fieldnation.com is branching out into Canada Message-ID: http://fieldnation.com is branching out into Canada. Unfortunately, I never connect to work because others respond to email alerts faster than I or clients choose other techs. Sometimes callers prefer a repair shop fix their computers and sometimes callers seek help elsewhere before I return their call. FOOLS! Busy repair shops can't afford the time to give your computer the TLC it deserves! Drpcdr.ca spends 3+ hours fixing 1 computer. -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 17 07:59:41 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 03:59:41 -0400 Subject: Scheduling lockup crash? In-Reply-To: <20120716194005.GA20993@amber> References: <20120715075549.GA16660@amber> <20120716194005.GA20993@amber> Message-ID: One major cause of excessive heat is excessive dust on the heat sink, cpu fan and power supply. Is the heat sink making proper contact with cpu? Try applying some thermal grease. Also,you may install a case fan. On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Peter King wrote: > On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 08:51:40AM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: > > > This appears to be a logic failure in core 2 of the cpu, as indicated > > by the End Of Interrupt "rb_insert_color". Most probably heat related > > as you indicate the problem just started happening. > > > > In the short term when you have physical access you could try > > under-clocking the cpu and see if the problem persists. You could also > > try beefing up the cpu cooling or just applying a new layer of thermal > > bond between the existing cpu and heat sync. > > In my mind heat problems in integrated components are either > > environmental or entropic. My thought is that this would be how a > > microscopic flaw in manufacturing would expose itself prior to > > exhibiting more serious End Of Life indications. Without knowing the > > unit history I can't say much more other that it might be time to > > replace the cpu. > > Thanks. The machine has shown mild signs of flakiness in the past when > called > upon for CPU-intensive tasks (say compiling gcc) -- random segfaults that > would > go away if I let it cool down a bit. Now it glitches on compiling gimp or > some > qt libraries. Mind you, it has been a hot summer, and the ambient > temperature > in the room in which it is located is about 26C. But lm-sensors doesn't > show > an abnormally high core temperature. > > I'll try to cool it down to see whether that matters, but it sounds like > it's > time to think about getting a more reliable (and well-cooled) computer. > Time > to post a general query. > > Thanks for the help! > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 17 17:15:14 2012 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:15:14 -0400 Subject: Northgate Omnikey Message-ID: <20120717171514.GA18175@yam.witteman.ca> If you've got a fondness for buckling-spring keyboards and a willingness to try repair/cleaning, I have a Northgate Omnikey keyboard that I want to get rid of. The "C" key seems to be buffering a bit - it'll not register, and you'll hit it a few more times, and then you get a bunch of "c"s at once. Still interested, send me an email offlist. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 18 02:37:22 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:37:22 -0400 Subject: Intel GMA500 Poulsbo works with recent kernels. In-Reply-To: References: <20120712180546.GA3613@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120718023722.GA12399@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 12:12:57PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > | From: Walter Dnes > > | Many linux users who bought early netbooks with Intel GMA Poulsbo GPUs > | ended up kicking themselves in the rear. If you got rid of yours, you > | may end up kicking yourself in the rear even more. According to > | http://blog.bodhizazen.net/linux/linux-gma500-poulsbo-driver-moved-out-of-staging/ > > My understanding is that this is frame-buffer-only (with kernel mode > switching). This is probably why I had to also install the xf86-video-fbdev driver, > If you care about video in the Atom space, ION is better. (Expensive, > probably eats more power, not common except for HTPC) > > Or get an AMD CPU+GPU chip (C-60 or E-350). (Not very available but I > don't understand why.) > > Or get a low power i3 system (more money). If I was doing it all over again, I would've known better. Hindsight is always 20/20. This post was for those of us who mistakenly bought what turned out to be almost a doorstop under linux. I have a real laptop plus the netbook. Before the new driver, the netbook could do at best a painfully slow 1024x768 X Window using the VESA driver. It was better as text-console-only device. Now, it's half-decent at 1366x768 One semi-related question for text mode; is there a source somewhere for free ISO8859-1 wide *TEXT CONSOLE* fonts that are 16 or 17 pixels wide? I am *NOT* talking about X Window fonts. I can set append = "video=640x480" in /etc/lilo.conf and set consolefont="lat1-10" in /etc/conf.d/consolefont for a nice crisp 80x48 text diesplay. The 10 pixel-high font is actually much easier on the eyes than 8 pixel-high font in the VGA50 mode (640x400 with 8x8 font). With other drivers on other machines, the text console resolution is independant of the X Window resolution. With this driver, setting text consoles 640x480 sets the X Window resolution to 640x480. The standard VGA 8x16 font produces and unreadably tiny 170x48 textmode. 1366x768 -------- = 170x48 8x16 The only way to get the best of both worlds is to leave video at the default (1366x768) and select a larger font. There is an "iso01-12x22" which is better (113x34) but I'd like something closer to 80 columns across. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 18 11:22:18 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 07:22:18 -0400 Subject: boot question -- USB stick vs. DVD Message-ID: <20120718112218.GA22920@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi all, I was running out of DVD to burn, so I tried dd'ing the iso image to a USB stick. It booted okay. My question is, can you put any iso image to USB stick (or spare harddisk) and boot? Or, does it only work for specially prepared iso? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 18 14:40:22 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:40:22 -0400 Subject: boot question -- USB stick vs. DVD In-Reply-To: <20120718112218.GA22920-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718112218.GA22920@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120718144022.GA13870@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 07:22:18AM -0400, William Park wrote > Hi all, > > I was running out of DVD to burn, so I tried dd'ing the iso image to a > USB stick. It booted okay. My question is, can you put any iso image > to USB stick (or spare harddisk) and boot? Or, does it only work for > specially prepared iso? It has to be specially prepared. If it's not already prepared you can - install syslinux on your system and - run the "isohybrid" utility that's part of syslinux Detailed instructions are on the man page and in Google, e.g. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-811070-start-0.html -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 18 15:11:19 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:11:19 -0400 Subject: boot question -- USB stick vs. DVD In-Reply-To: <20120718144022.GA13870-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718112218.GA22920@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120718144022.GA13870@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120718151119.GA32030@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 10:40:22AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 07:22:18AM -0400, William Park wrote > > Hi all, > > > > I was running out of DVD to burn, so I tried dd'ing the iso image to a > > USB stick. It booted okay. My question is, can you put any iso image > > to USB stick (or spare harddisk) and boot? Or, does it only work for > > specially prepared iso? > > It has to be specially prepared. If it's not already prepared you can > - install syslinux on your system and > - run the "isohybrid" utility that's part of syslinux > > Detailed instructions are on the man page and in Google, e.g. > http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-811070-start-0.html Thanks. Bookmarked. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 18 15:17:27 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:17:27 -0400 Subject: Posting of Ian Darwin's Talk? In-Reply-To: <5006CF4C.6020006-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <5006CF4C.6020006@ss.org> Message-ID: Ian's talk was really excellent. He mentioned that it would be posted on the TLUG website. Has that happened? If so, can someone post the URL? Thanks - Peter > # Notices > > GTALUG would like to thank Ian Darwin for speaking at this months meeting. > > For those who missed his talk, he will be delivering it again tomorrow > at the Toronto Java Users Group. http://tjug.ca > > Excerpt: > > Toronto Java Users Group Meeting - Android: Architecture and API > When: Thu, July 19, 7pm ? 10pm > Where: Free Times Cafe, 320 College Street > Description: > Regular monthly meeting of the Toronto Java Users Group. > > Android: Architecture and API > > Ian Darwin Covers the big picture quickly, then drills down to the > components used, discusses what each part does and when/where to use it. > Ends with code samples, where we can dive as deep as people's interest > requires. To find out more, visit http://tjug.ca > > ## Upcoming meetings. > > Tuesday 14th August, 2012 at 7:30 pm > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2012-08 > Cfengine w/ Neil Watson > > Tuesday 11th September, 2012 at 7:30 pm > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2012-09 > Bin has bin w/ David Tilbrook > > Tuesday 9th October, 2012 at 7:30 pm > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2012-10 > Dynamic Protocol Stacks in the Linux Kernel w/ Daniel Borkmann, ETH Zurich > > > -- > Scott Sullivan > GTALUG Board Member / Talks Coordinator > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 18 15:19:11 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:19:11 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? Message-ID: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> I plan do some travelling and take along my netbook or laptop, I want to be able to download+send email. Web UI sucks. I vastly prefer downloading via "getmail". The problem is that getmail's rc files have userid+password in plain text for each account. The risks of losing the netbook/laptop are obvious. What I'm thinking of doing is something like so... - instead of actual rc files in ~/.getmail, have symlinks pointing to non-existant files in /dev/shm (pseudo ramdrive) - the email retrival script would - decrypt the rc files onto /dev/shm (after asking for a passphrase). This would make the symlinks in ~/.getmail valid - download email, using the symlinked rc files in ~/.getmail - and then immediately delete the real rc files in /dev/shm The symlinks in ~/.getmail would again be pointing to non-existant files. Does this sound feasable, and what encryption program should I use? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 18 15:35:17 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Intel GMA500 Poulsbo works with recent kernels. In-Reply-To: <20120718023722.GA12399-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120712180546.GA3613@waltdnes.org> <20120718023722.GA12399@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | Before the new driver, the netbook could do at | best a painfully slow 1024x768 X Window using the VESA driver. It was | better as text-console-only device. Now, it's half-decent at 1366x768 Which netbook? Few Atom-base netbooks do 1366x768 (licensing reasons!). Generally, the few that do are expensive. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 18 15:37:42 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:37:42 -0400 Subject: Posting of Ian Darwin's Talk? In-Reply-To: References: <5006CF4C.6020006@ss.org> Message-ID: <5006D846.5040900@ss.org> On 07/18/2012 11:17 AM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Ian's talk was really excellent. He mentioned that it would be posted on > the TLUG website. Has that happened? If so, can someone post the URL? > > Thanks - > Peter Hello Peter, Thank you for the reminder, I've sent an email to Ian to follow up on that. I'll post more information once I have it. -- Scott Sullivan GTALUG Board Member / Talks Coordinator -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 18 16:32:59 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:32:59 -0400 Subject: Posting of Ian Darwin's Talk? In-Reply-To: <5006D846.5040900-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <5006CF4C.6020006@ss.org> <5006D846.5040900@ss.org> Message-ID: <5006E53B.9030906@ss.org> On 07/18/2012 11:37 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 07/18/2012 11:17 AM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Ian's talk was really excellent. He mentioned that it would be posted on >> the TLUG website. Has that happened? If so, can someone post the URL? >> >> Thanks - >> Peter > > Hello Peter, > > Thank you for the reminder, I've sent an email to Ian to follow up on > that. I'll post more information once I have it. > Ian has provided a copy of slides which has now been added to the GTALUG wiki and can be download from the meeting page for his talk. http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2012-07 -- Scott Sullivan GTALUG Board Member / Talks Coordinator -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 18 18:26:44 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:26:44 -0400 Subject: Intel GMA500 Poulsbo works with recent kernels. In-Reply-To: References: <20120712180546.GA3613@waltdnes.org> <20120718023722.GA12399@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120718182644.GA14086@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:35:17AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > Which netbook? Acer Aspire AO751h (all-black version) http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptop/acer-apire-one-ao751h.aspx > Few Atom-base netbooks do 1366x768 (licensing reasons!). Generally, > the few that do are expensive. It's an 11" model with 2 gigs of ram. It was half the price of a 15" laptop when I bought it. Mind you, prices have plummetted since then. The installed Windows XP Home was painfully slow, maybe due to all the craplets. Anyhow, I blew it away and installed Gentoo, which optimizes for the specific CPU, and it runs fine. For full specs, see... http://support.acer.com/acerpanam/netbook/0000/acer/aspireoneao751h/aspireoneao751hsp2.shtml The CPU is a dual core Atom. Output from /proc/cpuinfo... processor : 1 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 28 model name : Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU Z520 @ 1.33GHz stepping : 2 microcode : 0x211 cpu MHz : 800.000 cache size : 512 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 2 core id : 0 cpu cores : 1 apicid : 1 initial apicid : 1 fdiv_bug : no hlt_bug : no f00f_bug : no coma_bug : no fpu : yes fpu_exception : yes cpuid level : 10 wp : yes flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 xtpr pdcm movbe lahf_lm dts tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority bogomips : 2660.01 clflush size : 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 32 bits physical, 32 bits virtual power management: -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 18 18:40:02 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:40:02 -0400 Subject: Posting of Ian Darwin's Talk? In-Reply-To: <5006E53B.9030906-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <5006CF4C.6020006@ss.org> <5006D846.5040900@ss.org> <5006E53B.9030906@ss.org> Message-ID: <9359161a1b47d0681e76dcfacf00b1ce.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > > Ian has provided a copy of slides which has now been added to the GTALUG > wiki and can be download from the meeting page for his talk. > > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2012-07 > > -- > Scott Sullivan > GTALUG Board Member / Talks Coordinator Great! Thanks, Scott and Ian. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 00:25:08 2012 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David Germiquet) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 20:25:08 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Hp3050a Message-ID: Just bought a 3050a hp printer from best buy.it works well with Linux even The wired connection works too it connects to my network. Is hp really that Linux friendly.the printer only costed 50 dollars -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 02:26:27 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: Hp3050a In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: David Germiquet | Just bought a 3050a hp printer from best buy.it works well with Linux | even The wired connection works too it connects to my network. Is hp | really that Linux friendly.the printer only costed 50 dollars Friendly comes in several forms. HP does not have Linux support for scanners released in the last few years. HP printer support is from drivers provided by HP. I don't know if they are open source (even though it matters). I think that they are. I'm struggling with a Brother DCP-7065dn printer/scanner. Brother has released closed source Linux drivers. The scanner driver is misbehaving but it isn't clear that there is any support for the drivers from Brother (I'll see). I got sucked in by a rush to a bargain: - laser printer, duplex (i.e. able to print on both sides of a sheet) - flatbed scanner - automatic document feeder for scanner - wired networking - Linux support. I didn't realize that both printer and scanner drivers were binary-only. All my other Brother printers worked without proprietary drivers. - all for $100. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 11:06:06 2012 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:06:06 -0400 Subject: Back to DR-DOS again In-Reply-To: References: <50028950.5583.2A112A3@sciguy.vex.net>, Message-ID: <5007B1DE.2608.99C11FC@sciguy.vex.net> I believe there was a CD, which I removed from the drive. When I rebooted, it still gave me Dr-DOS. Only changing the BIOS made it normal again. On 15 Jul 2012 at 13:03, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org > > | I imagine it must have been stored on a rom chip somewhere on the MB, > | but where? In the BIOS? > > Did you have a CDROM in the drive? El-Torito booting can optionally > fake a floppy for booting. > > DOS isn't too good at large disks. Or cdroms. There are variouis > work-arounds. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From shinoj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 11:50:26 2012 From: shinoj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Shinoj VG) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:20:26 +0530 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <20120718151910.GB13870-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Sounds possible.Try truecrypt and let us know how it goes. Regards, Shinoj. > From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org > Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:19:11 -0400 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: What is the best file encryption for linux? > > I plan do some travelling and take along my netbook or laptop, I want > to be able to download+send email. Web UI sucks. I vastly prefer > downloading via "getmail". The problem is that getmail's rc files have > userid+password in plain text for each account. The risks of losing the > netbook/laptop are obvious. > > What I'm thinking of doing is something like so... > > - instead of actual rc files in ~/.getmail, have symlinks pointing to > non-existant files in /dev/shm (pseudo ramdrive) > > - the email retrival script would > - decrypt the rc files onto /dev/shm (after asking for a passphrase). > This would make the symlinks in ~/.getmail valid > - download email, using the symlinked rc files in ~/.getmail > - and then immediately delete the real rc files in /dev/shm > > The symlinks in ~/.getmail would again be pointing to non-existant > files. Does this sound feasable, and what encryption program should I > use? > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 13:43:31 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 09:43:31 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: >> The symlinks in ~/.getmail would again be pointing to non-existant >> files. Does this sound feasable, and what encryption program should I >> use? >> I would just activate the native operating system file-system encryption. That way, your experience working with the application does not change as encryption will be transparent after you boot up. That, and the fact that I feel its the most safest way of keeping the data save. In another word, use of dm-crypt is the best solution in my humble opinion William >> -- >> Walter Dnes >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 14:19:08 2012 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:19:08 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <20120718151910.GB13870-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <5008175C.5020208@gmail.com> On 12-07-18 11:19 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > I plan do some travelling and take along my netbook or laptop, I want > to be able to download+send email. Web UI sucks. I vastly prefer > downloading via "getmail". The problem is that getmail's rc files have > userid+password in plain text for each account. The risks of losing the > netbook/laptop are obvious. Whole Disk Encryption is the best. Truecrypt, dm-crypt, etc. Your drive's HDD password may provide encryption too. Check the manufacturer specs. Hitachi drives normally have encryption built-in. A few other manufacturers do too. http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/bulk_faqs.htm It's black-box encryption though. To the paranoid, it only makes the disk less valuable than the replacement cost. Even if the drive doesn't have built-in encryption, the HDD password alone might be all you need. It's not easy to circumvent, but it can be circumvented. The advantage of these passwords is that they're quick, easy and don't degrade performance. Not as secure as whole-disk encryption though. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 14:26:58 2012 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:26:58 -0300 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <5008175C.5020208-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> <5008175C.5020208@gmail.com> Message-ID: As Mike said, the best is to encrypt the whole disk, but if this is nt what you want, and you really wanna play only with specific files, I would suggest you to take a look at GNUPG. http://www.gnupg.org/ It's the GNU's implementation of OpenPGP. =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: > On 12-07-18 11:19 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > > I plan do some travelling and take along my netbook or laptop, I want > > to be able to download+send email. Web UI sucks. I vastly prefer > > downloading via "getmail". The problem is that getmail's rc files have > > userid+password in plain text for each account. The risks of losing the > > netbook/laptop are obvious. > > Whole Disk Encryption is the best. Truecrypt, dm-crypt, etc. > > Your drive's HDD password may provide encryption too. Check the > manufacturer specs. Hitachi drives normally have encryption built-in. > A few other manufacturers do too. > > http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/bulk_faqs.htm > > It's black-box encryption though. To the paranoid, it only makes the > disk less valuable than the replacement cost. > > Even if the drive doesn't have built-in encryption, the HDD password > alone might be all you need. It's not easy to circumvent, but it can be > circumvented. > > The advantage of these passwords is that they're quick, easy and don't > degrade performance. Not as secure as whole-disk encryption though. > > -Mike > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 15:44:19 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:44:19 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <5008175C.5020208-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> <5008175C.5020208@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: > On 12-07-18 11:19 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: >> I plan do some travelling and take along my netbook or laptop, I want >> to be able to download+send email. Web UI sucks. I vastly prefer >> downloading via "getmail". The problem is that getmail's rc files have >> userid+password in plain text for each account. The risks of losing the >> netbook/laptop are obvious. > > Whole Disk Encryption is the best. Truecrypt, dm-crypt, etc. Security isn't a single point; it's a set of trade-offs. I'd expect Whole Disk Encryption to have one of two notable vulnerabilities: a) If it DOES NOT use CFB mode (Cipher Feed Back), then it will tend to be vulnerable to repeated string attacks. That is, if two files begin with the same prefix, there would be repeated identical prefixes, thereby providing some "traffic analysis-like" material, as well as a point for cryptanalytical attack. b) If it DOES use CFB, then the resulting filesystem will be rather "brittle," such that any corruption of data might "shatter" the entire filesystem. "Oops, a block went bad, and the whole filesystem is now inaccessible." Note that "denial of service" is one of the classes of security problems. Inability to access your filesystem is a "lack of security." My preference has long been cfs, due to Matt Blaze. (Notable crypto researcher who has been a reasonably frequent presenter on security at Usenix...) cfs implements an NFS server that encrypts on a file-by-file basis. The fact that a pretty smart guy, who had a variety of options available, picked per-file encryption, suggests that it's worth thinking more broadly than a single point on a continuum. http://www.crypto.com/software/ http://packages.debian.org/sid/cfs cfs is pretty old, now, uses pretty old encryption algorithms, so I think that there are aspects of it as solution that aren't particularly good today. But it seems like a viable "point in the continuum of choices." -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 17:20:19 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:20:19 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <20120718151910.GB13870-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <500841D3.5040804@sobac.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Can you use full-disk encryption (I use an encrypted partition with LVM), or encrypt your home folder with ecryptfs? - --Bob. On 12-07-18 11:19 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability iEYEARECAAYFAlAIQdEACgkQuRKJsNLM5epa7ACgo8/A18IJswsMFT+/pJhoJX91 decAoIaMIe6xEdHjiV55z5+J9uXaHpPE =H+8O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 18:20:50 2012 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:20:50 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> <5008175C.5020208@gmail.com> Message-ID: <50085002.60003@gmail.com> On 12-07-19 11:44 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: >> On 12-07-18 11:19 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: >>> I plan do some travelling and take along my netbook or laptop, I want >>> to be able to download+send email. Web UI sucks. I vastly prefer >>> downloading via "getmail". The problem is that getmail's rc files have >>> userid+password in plain text for each account. The risks of losing the >>> netbook/laptop are obvious. >> >> Whole Disk Encryption is the best. Truecrypt, dm-crypt, etc. > > Security isn't a single point; it's a set of trade-offs. .... Security is risk management. A thorough discussion on risk and workstation security is probably out of scope for the question :-) If you're planning a trip and are trying to protect your hard disk, a well-tested, modern whole disk encryption system will fix your free space problem, protect your /tmp and swap. There might be too great a risk in installing and configuring somethign new when you're about to head out the door, so if you just want to protect against random badguys stealing the machine, then a HDD password can be deployed quickly and reliably. To defend Truecrypt et al.: Modern block level encryption schemes are not symmetrically encrypted block-for-block with a single key. There are initialization vector schemes which have a similar function as cipher feedback without the brittleness you describe: http://www.jetico.com/bcve_web_help/html/02_standards/03_mode.htm http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=system-encryption File level encryption schemes have major pitfalls in that they don't address previously deleted files, /tmp files, file names and metadata (usually) and your encryption key may be written plain text to swap or your hibernation file. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 18:50:19 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:50:19 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <20120718151910.GB13870-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120719185019.GA2244@node1.opengeometry.net> As others have said, I'm aware of 2 kinds: 1. cryptsetup -- block layer under the filesystem 2. ecryptfs -- kernel module mounted on top of directory Both will be transparent while mounted, so probably the easiest to use. If your thief steals it while turned on, then all bets are off. :-) -- William On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:19:11AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I plan do some travelling and take along my netbook or laptop, I want > to be able to download+send email. Web UI sucks. I vastly prefer > downloading via "getmail". The problem is that getmail's rc files have > userid+password in plain text for each account. The risks of losing the > netbook/laptop are obvious. > > What I'm thinking of doing is something like so... > > - instead of actual rc files in ~/.getmail, have symlinks pointing to > non-existant files in /dev/shm (pseudo ramdrive) > > - the email retrival script would > - decrypt the rc files onto /dev/shm (after asking for a passphrase). > This would make the symlinks in ~/.getmail valid > - download email, using the symlinked rc files in ~/.getmail > - and then immediately delete the real rc files in /dev/shm > > The symlinks in ~/.getmail would again be pointing to non-existant > files. Does this sound feasable, and what encryption program should I > use? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 19:06:08 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:06:08 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <20120719185019.GA2244-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> <20120719185019.GA2244@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: > > As others have said, I'm aware of 2 kinds: > 1. cryptsetup -- block layer under the filesystem > 2. ecryptfs -- kernel module mounted on top of directory > Both will be transparent while mounted, so probably the easiest to use. > If your thief steals it while turned on, then all bets are off. :-) > -- Very true. There is 9 to 1 chance your thief will be a Windows guy and hence likely to get confused and restart the system. Actually this make me wonder, doesn't this mean the system is unprotected when in suspend mode? William > William > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:19:11AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > I plan do some travelling and take along my netbook or laptop, I want > > to be able to download+send email. Web UI sucks. I vastly prefer > > downloading via "getmail". The problem is that getmail's rc files have > > userid+password in plain text for each account. The risks of losing the > > netbook/laptop are obvious. > > > > What I'm thinking of doing is something like so... > > > > - instead of actual rc files in ~/.getmail, have symlinks pointing to > > non-existant files in /dev/shm (pseudo ramdrive) > > > > - the email retrival script would > > - decrypt the rc files onto /dev/shm (after asking for a passphrase). > > This would make the symlinks in ~/.getmail valid > > - download email, using the symlinked rc files in ~/.getmail > > - and then immediately delete the real rc files in /dev/shm > > > > The symlinks in ~/.getmail would again be pointing to non-existant > > files. Does this sound feasable, and what encryption program should I > > use? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 19:11:21 2012 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:11:21 -0300 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> <20120719185019.GA2244@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: > > Very true. There is 9 to 1 chance your thief will be a Windows guy and > hence likely to get confused and restart the system. > > Actually this make me wonder, doesn't this mean the system is unprotected > when in suspend mode? > William > Well, the only thing You'll have to protect you in this case is your password. If your password isn't something like 123456, you'll probably have a simple security, but enough to keep your files protected from 99% of the thiefs, who wouldn't have enough knowledge to break into it. =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 4:06 PM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > > As others have said, I'm aware of 2 kinds: > > 1. cryptsetup -- block layer under the filesystem > > 2. ecryptfs -- kernel module mounted on top of directory > > Both will be transparent while mounted, so probably the easiest to use. > > If your thief steals it while turned on, then all bets are off. :-) > > -- > > Very true. There is 9 to 1 chance your thief will be a Windows guy and > hence likely to get confused and restart the system. > > Actually this make me wonder, doesn't this mean the system is unprotected > when in suspend mode? > > William > > William > > > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:19:11AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > > I plan do some travelling and take along my netbook or laptop, I want > > > to be able to download+send email. Web UI sucks. I vastly prefer > > > downloading via "getmail". The problem is that getmail's rc files have > > > userid+password in plain text for each account. The risks of losing > the > > > netbook/laptop are obvious. > > > > > > What I'm thinking of doing is something like so... > > > > > > - instead of actual rc files in ~/.getmail, have symlinks pointing to > > > non-existant files in /dev/shm (pseudo ramdrive) > > > > > > - the email retrival script would > > > - decrypt the rc files onto /dev/shm (after asking for a passphrase). > > > This would make the symlinks in ~/.getmail valid > > > - download email, using the symlinked rc files in ~/.getmail > > > - and then immediately delete the real rc files in /dev/shm > > > > > > The symlinks in ~/.getmail would again be pointing to non-existant > > > files. Does this sound feasable, and what encryption program should I > > > use? > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 20:33:03 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:33:03 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> <20120719185019.GA2244@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120719203302.GA6404@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 03:06:08PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Very true. There is 9 to 1 chance your thief will be a Windows guy and > hence likely to get confused and restart the system. > > Actually this make me wonder, doesn't this mean the system is unprotected > when in suspend mode? Depends whether you're asked for password to get back to normal operation. Another option you may consider is to run your laptop from USB stick. Once the USB stick is removed, then your laptop is just a hardware. Again, if your thief steals your USB stick along with laptop... Of course, this reminds me... don't use thumbprint bio security. They'll just steal your thumbs. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 22:13:10 2012 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:13:10 -0400 Subject: boot question -- USB stick vs. DVD In-Reply-To: <20120718112218.GA22920-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718112218.GA22920@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <50088676.7010203@dinamis.com> On 07/18/2012 07:22 AM, William Park wrote: > My question is, can you put any iso image > to USB stick (or spare harddisk) and boot? I'm reminded of a USB key that I found at a park near my home that had obviously been out there long enough for the tip to be rusted. I thought I might be able to identify its owner from the contents so I brought it home. Imagine my surprise when I saw what was obviously a bootable Linux key. There was no way to identify the owner, by the way. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3230 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 22:24:52 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:24:52 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <20120718151910.GB13870-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120719222452.GB17163@waltdnes.org> This discussion hasn't gone the way I expected. Maybe I should go into more detail. Whole-disk-encryption is overkill, and risks total disk loss. There is nothing illegal on the netbook, or embarressing. This is only a small netbook for travel. I'm not taking my entire life story on it. I'd have no problem with police searching it. Having it stolen would "only" cost me money to replace, and time to re-install on the new system. The only stuff I do want to protect are the plain text userID+passwords to a few accounts. I intend to... - copy ~/.getmail/ to a directory on /dev/shm - tar or zip the directory to a single encrypted file on disc or USB key - delete the directory ~/.getmail/, and replace with a symlink to the directory on /dev/shm When I download email, I'll decode and pipe to untar/unzip the directory to /dev/shm so that the ~/.getmail/ symlink is valid, and getmail can find the appropriate rc files with plain text userID and password strings. The last line of the email download script will wipe the directory in /dev/shm. I only need to encrypt one file (zip or tarball or whatever). -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 19 23:58:23 2012 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 19:58:23 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <5008175C.5020208-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> <5008175C.5020208@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120719195823.08799f1a53422e0644cc7607@eol.ca> On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:19:08 -0400 Mike Kallies wrote: > > Whole Disk Encryption is the best. Truecrypt, dm-crypt, etc. I encrypted my laptop's /home partition. My install notes are online, complete with my notes and remarks about encryption. http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson/Romin How badly does one get harassed at the border with an encrypted laptop? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 20 00:58:04 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 20:58:04 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <20120719195823.08799f1a53422e0644cc7607-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> <5008175C.5020208@gmail.com> <20120719195823.08799f1a53422e0644cc7607@eol.ca> Message-ID: <5008AD1C.8050105@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > How badly does one get harassed at the border with an encrypted laptop? I was carrying 2 computers when I came back from the U.S. a few months ago. They didn't even look at them. On the way down, the only interest was when I was recording a few devices on a green card that lists what I took out of the country with me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 20 01:19:19 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 21:19:19 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <20120719222452.GB17163-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> <20120719222452.GB17163@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <5008B217.7030309@ve3syb.ca> On 12-07-19 06:24 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > The only stuff I do want to protect are the plain text > userID+passwords to a few accounts. vi allows you to encrypt a file and OpenOffice/LibreOffice has a means to password protect a file so either approach might be something to consider. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 20 02:02:46 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:02:46 -0400 Subject: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <20120719195823.08799f1a53422e0644cc7607-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> <5008175C.5020208@gmail.com> <20120719195823.08799f1a53422e0644cc7607@eol.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:19:08 -0400 > Mike Kallies wrote: >> >> Whole Disk Encryption is the best. Truecrypt, dm-crypt, etc. > > I encrypted my laptop's /home partition. My install notes are online, complete with my notes and remarks about encryption. > > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson/Romin > > How badly does one get harassed at the border with an encrypted laptop? Now that "There's an app for that" (e.g. - plenty of password management apps for mobile phones), and SanDisk sells "encrypted USB keys", it's no longer at all suspicious for someone to be carrying encrypted material. They're incredibly unlikely to ask. If they have some reason to be suspicious of you, imagining one of the FBI bugaboos (e.g. - spying or Doing Bad Things To Children), then anything at all that's potentially interpretable as suspicious will be reason to get out the Rubber Hose To Encourage Splainin', however minor it might be in other circumstances. Airports are sufficiently "US-Constitution-Free" zones that you have to regard them as being potentially pretty capricious. There's a pretty good argument to be made in favour of trying to keep yourself "sanitized" of anything that might arouse suspicion. There's little call to carry possibly-sensitive data when: a) If you're *not* paranoid, you might stow it on DropBox or such; b) If you're *somewhat* paranoid, you might stow it, strongly encrypted, on DropBox or such; c) Your favorite server is just an "scp" away. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 20 02:54:56 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: boot question -- USB stick vs. DVD In-Reply-To: <50088676.7010203-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718112218.GA22920@node1.opengeometry.net> <50088676.7010203@dinamis.com> Message-ID: | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY | I'm reminded of a USB key that I found at a park near my home that had | obviously been out there long enough for the tip to be rusted. A famous way of infiltrating "impenetrable" organizations. Like the Iranian enrichment facility (rumoured). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 20 03:00:28 2012 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:00:28 -0400 Subject: boot question -- USB stick vs. DVD In-Reply-To: References: <20120718112218.GA22920@node1.opengeometry.net> <50088676.7010203@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <5008C9CC.2000406@dinamis.com> On 07/19/2012 10:54 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY > > | I'm reminded of a USB key that I found at a park near my home that had > | obviously been out there long enough for the tip to be rusted. > > A famous way of infiltrating "impenetrable" organizations. Like the > Iranian enrichment facility (rumoured). > I didn't attempt to boot from it. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3230 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 20 10:01:54 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 06:01:54 -0400 Subject: boot question -- USB stick vs. DVD In-Reply-To: <5008C9CC.2000406-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718112218.GA22920@node1.opengeometry.net> <50088676.7010203@dinamis.com> <5008C9CC.2000406@dinamis.com> Message-ID: > > On 07/19/2012 10:54 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> >> | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY >> >> | I'm reminded of a USB key that I found at a park near my home that had >> | obviously been out there long enough for the tip to be rusted. >> >> A famous way of infiltrating "impenetrable" organizations. Like the >> Iranian enrichment facility (rumoured). >> > > > I didn't attempt to boot from it. > > -- Lol, You didn't have to be defensive. Before reading this article, I am certain I would have done the same thing. And I would say I am a bit paranoid and security aware, yet came up as an idiot in this case. :( Yet another reason not to use the root account. That would mitigate the likelyhood of the keyboard and Linux don't run anything unless you explicitly make it executable William > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay > Dinamis > 1419-3230 Yonge St. > Toronto, ON > Canada M4N 3P6 > > > +1 416-410-3326 > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 22 00:11:54 2012 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:11:54 -0400 Subject: Linux friendly continuous ink supply system. Message-ID: <500B454A.5010805@gmail.com> Hello everyone, I'm thinking of getting one of this system, I have considered colour laser printer, but I do need higher resolution graphics without breaking the bank. So I have a couple of question -- Is there an Linux-friendly inkjet printer that would work nicely with a continuous ink supply system and have anyone ever used it? Or should i just shut up and get a Phaser? Alex. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 22 00:21:39 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:21:39 -0400 Subject: Linux friendly continuous ink supply system. In-Reply-To: <500B454A.5010805-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <500B454A.5010805@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, you can get cheaper inkjet printers, but ink tends to be really really really expensive. On laser, color pigment is merely ridiculously expensive. Laser Is better in a different way - it doesn't smudge. I would bias to laser if you plan to do any quantity of printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 22 00:53:15 2012 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 20:53:15 -0400 Subject: Linux friendly continuous ink supply system. In-Reply-To: References: <500B454A.5010805@gmail.com> Message-ID: The who point of a CIS is to negate the high costs, by buying both larger quantities of ink, and getting it from 3rd parties. OP: the big variable here is linux support, though you didn't mention that your printing requirements include professional photo printing. That is usually the monkey wrench. If you just need STD b/w and colour prints, you should be fine with anything from the big 3. OS aside, Epson make great printers and have the most third party options for ink/cis. Aaron On Jul 21, 2012 8:21 PM, "Christopher Browne" wrote: > Well, you can get cheaper inkjet printers, but ink tends to be really > really really expensive. > > On laser, color pigment is merely ridiculously expensive. > > Laser Is better in a different way - it doesn't smudge. > > I would bias to laser if you plan to do any quantity of printing. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 22 02:05:29 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 22:05:29 -0400 Subject: Linux friendly continuous ink supply system. In-Reply-To: <500B454A.5010805-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <500B454A.5010805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <500B5FE9.5070209@rogers.com> Alex Volkov wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I'm thinking of getting one of this system, I have considered colour > laser printer, but I do need higher resolution graphics without > breaking the bank. So I have a couple of question -- Is there an > Linux-friendly inkjet printer that would work nicely with a continuous > ink supply system and have anyone ever used it? Or should i just shut > up and get a Phaser? > You might want to consider those solid ink jet printers. They use ink in the form of crayons that can be added while the printer is in use. They apparently produce excellent quality. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 22 02:26:51 2012 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 22:26:51 -0400 Subject: Linux friendly continuous ink supply system. In-Reply-To: <500B5FE9.5070209-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <500B454A.5010805@gmail.com> <500B5FE9.5070209@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Jul 21, 2012 10:05 PM, "James Knott" wrote: > You might want to consider those solid ink jet printers. They use ink in the form of crayons that can be added while the printer is in use. They apparently produce excellent quality. I have a solid ink jet printer and the quality of the prints are amazing. Plus the ink won't bleed. The ink is kind of expensive (less than a laser more than an ink jet) and extremely fragile. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 22 14:14:23 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 10:14:23 -0400 Subject: U of T to offer free online computer science courses to the world Message-ID: <500C0ABF.60000@rogers.com> Here's something that may of interest to some. http://web.cs.toronto.edu/news/current/coursera_UofT.htm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 22 15:08:22 2012 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 11:08:22 -0400 Subject: U of T to offer free online computer science courses to the world In-Reply-To: <500C0ABF.60000-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <500C0ABF.60000@rogers.com> Message-ID: Im signed up already (both for coursera and specifically these classes). Though I'm already comfortable (or rather BECAUSE I'm already comfortable) with python, I decided this would be a good test to see how informative these classes are, how much extra help you can get, etc. There are other courses that could be good, but I really want to test the format first. -aaron On Jul 22, 2012 10:14 AM, "James Knott" wrote: > Here's something that may of interest to some. > > http://web.cs.toronto.edu/**news/current/coursera_UofT.htm > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 22 15:29:31 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 11:29:31 -0400 Subject: U of T to offer free online computer science courses to the world In-Reply-To: <500C0ABF.60000-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <500C0ABF.60000@rogers.com> Message-ID: Thank you James for sharing this info On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 10:14 AM, James Knott wrote: > Here's something that may of interest to some. > > http://web.cs.toronto.edu/**news/current/coursera_UofT.htm > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 22 23:08:49 2012 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 19:08:49 -0400 Subject: U of T to offer free online computer science courses to the world In-Reply-To: References: <500C0ABF.60000@rogers.com> Message-ID: Thanks James. On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 11:29 AM, charles chris wrote: > Thank you James for sharing this info > > > On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 10:14 AM, James Knott > wrote: >> >> Here's something that may of interest to some. >> >> http://web.cs.toronto.edu/news/current/coursera_UofT.htm >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > http://drpcdr.ca > http://jobcircle.ca > 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 23 05:45:54 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 01:45:54 -0400 Subject: [Redux]: What is the best file encryption for linux? In-Reply-To: <20120718151910.GB13870-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120718151910.GB13870@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120723054554.GA1219@waltdnes.org> What I settled on was... * move directory ~/.getmail/ to /dev/shm and make a symlink to ~/.getmail from /dev/shm/.getmail/ * I also moved /etc/ppp/pap-secrets (for my dialup account with 295.ca) to /dev/shm/.getmail/pap-secrets and created a symlink at the original location * I moved another file with sensitive data into /dev/shm/.getmail * Then I zipped /dev/shm/.getmail/ and gpg-encrypted the zip file with a long passphrase * I renamed the encrypted file to something totally unrelated, including a different file type * There's one copy of the file on a USB key and one copy on the netbook "hidden in plain sight". * I wiped /dev/shm clean and did the decoding+unzipping to get the /dev/shm/.getmail/ directory back, complete with files. * I tested the dialup connection, and downloaded email (I use cotse.net) Things seem to be working OK. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 23 14:23:46 2012 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:23:46 -0400 Subject: [OT] Continuing Rogers Internet Problems Message-ID: <500D5E72.4060105@rogers.com> I need some help from the network experts here. Losing a packet is now rare, but some have times two orders of magnitude higher than most of the stream: 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=1 ttl=58 time=11.5 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=2 ttl=58 time=24.9 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=3 ttl=58 time=9.22 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=4 ttl=58 time=276 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=5 ttl=58 time=836 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=6 ttl=58 time=8.83 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=7 ttl=58 time=9.31 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=8 ttl=58 time=10.6 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=9 ttl=58 time=8.93 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=10 ttl=58 time=9.99 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=11 ttl=58 time=22.5 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=12 ttl=58 time=16.0 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=13 ttl=58 time=4054 ms ***************************** 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=14 ttl=58 time=3058 ms ***************************** 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=15 ttl=58 time=2060 ms ***************************** 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=16 ttl=58 time=1079 ms ***************************** 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=17 ttl=58 time=79.4 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=18 ttl=58 time=9.84 ms 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=19 ttl=58 time=10.1 ms This still creates havoc when downloading a large file or watching a YouTube video. Before I call Rogers again, I am seeking advise on how to address this issue with them. I am concerned that they will say that as long as all the packets arrive there is no problem. Thanks -- Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 23 14:31:11 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:31:11 -0400 Subject: [OT] Continuing Rogers Internet Problems In-Reply-To: <500D5E72.4060105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <500D5E72.4060105@rogers.com> Message-ID: <500D602F.80705@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > Before I call Rogers again, I am seeking advise on how to address this > issue with them. I am concerned that they will say that as long as all > the packets arrive there is no problem. > Run traceroute to get a list of routers along the route. Then try pinging them individually , to see where the problem originals. Start with your rogers gateway. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 23 14:39:52 2012 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:39:52 -0400 Subject: [OT] Continuing Rogers Internet Problems In-Reply-To: <500D602F.80705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <500D5E72.4060105@rogers.com> <500D602F.80705@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 10:31 AM, James Knott wrote: > Stephen wrote: >> >> Before I call Rogers again, I am seeking advise on how to address this >> issue with them. I am concerned that they will say that as long as all the >> packets arrive there is no problem. >> > > Run traceroute to get a list of routers along the route. Then try pinging > them individually , to see where the problem originals. Start with your > rogers gateway. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists This can be easily done with a tool like mtr [0]. Should be in your distro's repos (In Debian the package is called mtr-tiny). [0] - http://www.bitwizard.nl/mtr/ -- Sadiq S O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 23 14:42:36 2012 From: alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:42:36 -0400 Subject: [OT] Continuing Rogers Internet Problems In-Reply-To: <500D5E72.4060105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <500D5E72.4060105@rogers.com> Message-ID: This would be my recommendation as well. You can use the ARIN database to determine who controls which IP range, in the event there isn't a name in the traceroute result. If the problem begins before the packet enters the Rogers network, the only option would be to notify the company responsible for maintaining the problem gateway. I'm uncertain whether this would produce tangible results but it's worth trying anyway. Alex Gabriel On Jul 23, 2012 10:23 AM, "Stephen" wrote: > I need some help from the network experts here. > > Losing a packet is now rare, but some have times two orders of magnitude > higher than most of the stream: > > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=1 ttl=58 > time=11.5 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=2 ttl=58 > time=24.9 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=3 ttl=58 > time=9.22 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=4 ttl=58 > time=276 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=5 ttl=58 > time=836 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=6 ttl=58 > time=8.83 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=7 ttl=58 > time=9.31 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=8 ttl=58 > time=10.6 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=9 ttl=58 > time=8.93 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=10 ttl=58 > time=9.99 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=11 ttl=58 > time=22.5 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=12 ttl=58 > time=16.0 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=13 ttl=58 > time=4054 ms ***************************** > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=14 ttl=58 > time=3058 ms ***************************** > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=15 ttl=58 > time=2060 ms ***************************** > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=16 ttl=58 > time=1079 ms ***************************** > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=17 ttl=58 > time=79.4 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=18 ttl=58 > time=9.84 ms > 64 bytes from hp10.hostpapa.com (69.90.160.115): icmp_req=19 ttl=58 > time=10.1 ms > > > This still creates havoc when downloading a large file or watching a > YouTube video. > > Before I call Rogers again, I am seeking advise on how to address this > issue with them. I am concerned that they will say that as long as all the > packets arrive there is no problem. > > Thanks > > -- > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 23 14:44:55 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:44:55 -0400 Subject: Linux friendly continuous ink supply system. In-Reply-To: <500B454A.5010805-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <500B454A.5010805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120723144455.GQ19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 08:11:54PM -0400, Alex Volkov wrote: > I'm thinking of getting one of this system, I have considered colour > laser printer, but I do need higher resolution graphics without > breaking the bank. So I have a couple of question -- Is there an > Linux-friendly inkjet printer that would work nicely with a > continuous ink supply system and have anyone ever used it? Or should > i just shut up and get a Phaser? I am going to assume that by phaser you mean the solid wax printer, not one of the laser printers that xerox also uses the phaser name on. The solid wax phasers do have very pretty output. They can be very cheap to run, if you use them the way they are intended to be used. Otherwise they can be extremely expensive to run. You have to print a lot. 30000+ pages a month. You have to have reliable power. A power failure costs you about $5 in wax. A large UPS is not a bad idea if your power isn't reliable. Don't turn it off. If you turn it off, there goes $5 in wax again. It's standby mode keeps the wax in the head just hot enough to not need flushing. Unless your voltage is a bit lower than nominal, in which case it sometimes needs to flush anyhow, in which case there goes $5 of wax again. You have to accept that the printout can be scrathed off the paper in many cases. It is wax after all. The printing sitting on top of the paper is a really pretty look, but it's not as robust as laser printing, and to some extent not even inkjet I guess. I have dealt with one of these a few years ago, and it was painful to see how much wax it wasted because of power issues and not being used enough. Xerox did update the specs to put a minimum usage in on newer models, and it was very much needed. As for continuous ink, there are companies that build those for lots of inkjet printers many of which work with linux. I have an epson R260 printer that works great with linux, and I see that getting a continuous feed for it is not difficult. I don't print very much though so no point getting one of those for me. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 23 14:55:10 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:55:10 -0400 Subject: [OT] Continuing Rogers Internet Problems In-Reply-To: <500D5E72.4060105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <500D5E72.4060105@rogers.com> Message-ID: > Before I call Rogers again, I am seeking advise on how to address this > issue with them. In the spirit of continuous quality improvement (of emails) I point out that advise is a verb, and is used as in 'to advise someone'. The noun is 'advice' as in 'I would like to ask for advice'. These two are often confused. Further, they should not be confused with 'a vice' which is either (a) bad behaviour or (b) a machine tool. P. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 23 15:19:12 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 11:19:12 -0400 Subject: [OT] Continuing Rogers Internet Problems In-Reply-To: References: <500D5E72.4060105@rogers.com> Message-ID: <500D6B70.1000308@ve3syb.ca> On 12-07-23 10:55 AM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Further, they should not be confused with 'a vice' which is either (a) bad > behaviour or (b) a machine tool. Actually, the machine tool is called a vise. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 23 15:28:53 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 11:28:53 -0400 Subject: [OT] Continuing Rogers Internet Problems In-Reply-To: References: <500D5E72.4060105@rogers.com> Message-ID: <500D6DB5.6090704@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > These two are often confused. > Thanks for the advise. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 23 22:39:25 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 18:39:25 -0400 Subject: Interesting new drive models from WD Message-ID: <20120723223925.GR19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> WD now has a line of drives called red. They are supposedly for use in NAS devices. The nice thing appears to be that they are designed for use in RAID, so they have time limits on recovery attempts, and they are supposed to run cool and handle 24/7 operation. They also cost less than the current RE4 (which have a yellow label) drives while having a faster interface too. Could be interesting. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 24 17:43:26 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:43:26 -0400 Subject: Anyone know why this feature was removed from the kernel Message-ID: Afternoon, I just came across this statement from the iptables man page and for no immediate practical reason, got curious why the kernel developers decided to remove this feature. Quote: In Kernels up to 2.6.10, you can add several --to-source options. For those kernels, if you specify more than one source address, either via an address range or multiple --to-source options, a simple round-robin (one after another in cycle) takes place between these addresses. Later Kernels (>= 2.6.11-rc1) don?t have the ability to NAT to multiple ranges any- more. End Quote Unfortunately, I can't think of a single reason. I am suspecting security reasons, but I frankly can't see how that would be the case. Any one privy of what happened? Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 24 17:54:42 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:54:42 -0400 Subject: Anyone know why this feature was removed from the kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <500EE162.6080306@utoronto.ca> On 12-07-24 01:43 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Afternoon, > > I just came across this statement from the iptables man page and for > no immediate practical reason, got curious why the kernel developers > decided to remove this feature. > > Quote: > In Kernels up to 2.6.10, you can add several > --to-source options. For those kernels, if you specify more than one > source > address, either via an address range or multiple > --to-source options, a simple round-robin (one after another in > cycle) > takes place between these addresses. Later Kernels (>= > 2.6.11-rc1) don?t have the ability to NAT to multiple ranges any- > more. > End Quote > > Unfortunately, I can't think of a single reason. I am suspecting > security reasons, but I frankly can't see how that would be the case. > Any one privy of what happened? Quoting from changelog: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ChangeLog-2.6.11 [PATCH] Remove NAT to multiple ranges The NAT code has the concept of multiple ranges: you can say "map this connection onto IP 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.4, 192.168.1.7 ports 1024-65535, and 192.168.1.10". I implemented this because we could. But it's not actually *used* by many (any?) people, and you can approximate this by a random match (from patch-o-matic) if you really want to. It adds complexity to the code. Signed-off-by: Rusty Russell Signed-off-by: Linus Torvalds Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 24 17:57:22 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:57:22 -0400 Subject: Anyone know why this feature was removed from the kernel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 24 July 2012 13:43, William Muriithi wrote: > Afternoon, > > I just came across this statement from the iptables man page and for > no immediate practical reason, got curious why the kernel developers > decided to remove this feature. > > Quote: > In Kernels up to 2.6.10, you can add several > --to-source options. For those kernels, if you specify more than one > source > address, either via an address range or multiple > --to-source options, a simple round-robin (one after another in > cycle) > takes place between these addresses. Later Kernels (>= > 2.6.11-rc1) don?t have the ability to NAT to multiple ranges any- > more. > End Quote > Formatting is kind of messed up. Trying again Quote: In Kernels up to 2.6.10, you can add several --to-source options. For those kernels, if you specify more than one source address, either via an address range or multiple --to-source options, a simple round-robin (one after another in cycle) takes place between these addresses. Later Kernels (>= 2.6.11-rc1) don?t have the ability to NAT to multiple ranges any-more. End Quote: And the context of the above would be as follow Before 2.6.10 this was possible iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to-source 192.168.0.0/24 iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to-source 192.168.1.2 --to-source 192.168.1.3 After 2.6.10, you can only do iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j SNAT --to-source 192.168.1.2 Hope this is more clear. William > Unfortunately, I can't think of a single reason. I am suspecting > security reasons, but I frankly can't see how that would be the case. > Any one privy of what happened? > > Regards, > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 24 18:03:58 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:03:58 -0400 Subject: Anyone know why this feature was removed from the kernel In-Reply-To: <500EE162.6080306-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <500EE162.6080306@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: > The NAT code has the concept of multiple ranges: you can say "map this > connection onto IP 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.4, 192.168.1.7 ports > 1024-65535, and 192.168.1.10". I implemented this because we could. > > But it's not actually *used* by many (any?) people, and you can > approximate this by a random match (from patch-o-matic) if you really > want to. It adds complexity to the code. > > Signed-off-by: Rusty Russell > Signed-off-by: Linus Torvalds > > Jamon Ah, thanks. That was quick. Look like they just wanted to simply the code logic. Thanks again. William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 11:25:50 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 07:25:50 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next Message-ID: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> I have a desktop system that can't get through a build of gdb-7.4.1 without locking up the desktop, and, apparently, all other processing. System is MSI G41M-P26 memory 3.9 GB, dual-processor Intel Pentium 4 3.20GHz O/S Ubuntu 10.04, kernel 2.6.32-41-generic-pae, GNOME 2.30.2 I check that it's running with a system monitor window on top, and watching the crawl of the CPU usage graph. After the crawl stops, the system also stops responding to the mouse and keyboard. The last run I also had an ssh process open from another machine, and it froze at the same time everything else did. Pinging the dead system claimed that the destination was unreachable, and that persisted until the hung system had been rebooted. Memory doesn't seem to be a problem, usually only about 10% gets used. After the reboot, I can't find anything in syslog or messages that look like trouble, but I could be failing to recognize something. I wonder if it couldn't be an over-temp problem. The build makes heavy use of both processors, and often (though not always) hangs with both CPUs pinned at 100%. The retailer says the system is fine, but it occurs to me that he has very pleasant air conditioning in the shop, and I have none here at home. Any good packages for monitoring CPU temperature? Tomorrow I'll be able to say whether doing the build at night helps (No. Tried again at 5AM. Toronto Island said 19C. Same story.) ISTR seeing ./configure options somewhere that would limit the number of simultaneous processes forked by the build, but I don't see anything like that as an option for this gdb build. The system usually seems rock solid doing light work like reading news, web surfing, or drafting email. All hints appreciated. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 13:46:26 2012 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: About possible overtemp problem: I have an AMD AM2 motherboard, with a dual-processor CPU. After a number of system hangs, I toook a look inside the box, and found that the heatsink/fan assembly was no longer held tightly to the CPU. It seems the plastic heatsink-holder that went around the CPU was broken, and the heatsink clip could no hold the assembly tightly to the CPU. I found that "CPU retention clips" were available on EBay for this type of motherboard for about 4 bucks. After replacing that clip, that fixed the problem for me. (I had to completely remove the motherboard, replace the clip and reconnect and reinstall everything, but it worked. Dunc > I have a desktop system that can't get through a build of gdb-7.4.1 > without locking up the desktop, and, apparently, all other processing. > > System is MSI G41M-P26 > memory 3.9 GB, dual-processor Intel Pentium 4 3.20GHz > > O/S Ubuntu 10.04, kernel 2.6.32-41-generic-pae, GNOME 2.30.2 > > I check that it's running with a system monitor window on top, and > watching the crawl of the CPU usage graph. After the crawl stops, the > system also stops responding to the mouse and keyboard. The last run I > also had an ssh process open from another machine, and it froze at the > same time everything else did. Pinging the dead system claimed that the > destination was unreachable, and that persisted until the hung system > had been rebooted. > > Memory doesn't seem to be a problem, usually only about 10% gets used. > > After the reboot, I can't find anything in syslog or messages that look > like trouble, but I could be failing to recognize something. > > I wonder if it couldn't be an over-temp problem. The build makes heavy > use of both processors, and often (though not always) hangs with both > CPUs pinned at 100%. The retailer says the system is fine, but it > occurs to me that he has very pleasant air conditioning in the shop, and > I have none here at home. Any good packages for monitoring CPU > temperature? Tomorrow I'll be able to say whether doing the build at > night helps (No. Tried again at 5AM. Toronto Island said 19C. Same > story.) > ISTR seeing ./configure options somewhere that would limit > the number of simultaneous processes forked by the build, but I don't > see anything like that as an option for this gdb build. > > The system usually seems rock solid doing light work like reading news, > web surfing, or drafting email. > > All hints appreciated. > > Mel. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 13:52:59 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 06:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <1343224379.73534.YahooMailNeo@web113413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> My guess is heat and power (in that order).? Check your CPU fan/heatsink for dust or loose contact.? Then, check your power supply. -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mel Wilson > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 7:25:50 AM > Subject: [TLUG]: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next > > I have a desktop system that can't get through a build of gdb-7.4.1 > without locking up the desktop, and, apparently, all other processing. > > System is MSI G41M-P26 > memory 3.9 GB, dual-processor Intel Pentium 4 3.20GHz > > O/S? Ubuntu 10.04, kernel 2.6.32-41-generic-pae, GNOME 2.30.2 > > I check that it's running with a system monitor window on top, and > watching the crawl of the CPU usage graph.? After the crawl stops, the > system also stops responding to the mouse and keyboard.? The last run I > also had an ssh process open from another machine, and it froze at the > same time everything else did.? Pinging the dead system claimed that the > destination was unreachable, and that persisted until the hung system > had been rebooted. > > Memory doesn't seem to be a problem, usually only about 10% gets used. > > After the reboot, I can't find anything in syslog or messages that look > like trouble, but I could be failing to recognize something. > > I wonder if it couldn't be an over-temp problem.? The build makes heavy > use of both processors, and often (though not always) hangs with both > CPUs pinned at 100%.? The retailer says the system is fine, but it > occurs to me that he has very pleasant air conditioning in the shop, and > I have none here at home.? Any good packages for monitoring CPU > temperature?? Tomorrow I'll be able to say whether doing the build at > night helps (No.? Tried again at 5AM.? Toronto Island said 19C. Same story.)? > ISTR seeing ./configure options somewhere that would limit > the number of simultaneous processes forked by the build, but I don't > see anything like that as an option for this gdb build. > > The system usually seems rock solid doing light work like reading news, > web surfing, or drafting email. > > All hints appreciated. > > ??? Mel. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 15:05:25 2012 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:05:25 -0400 Subject: [OT] Continuing Rogers Internet Problems In-Reply-To: <500D6B70.1000308-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <500D5E72.4060105@rogers.com> <500D6B70.1000308@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <50100B35.1000300@dinamis.com> On 07/23/2012 11:19 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 12-07-23 10:55 AM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Further, they should not be confused with 'a vice' which is either (a) >> bad >> behaviour or (b) a machine tool. > > Actually, the machine tool is called a vise. Vice is the common spelling in the UK, apparently, so both are valid. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3230 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 15:19:43 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:19:43 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <1343229583.2323.10.camel@tecumseth3> On Wed, 2012-07-25 at 09:46 -0400, dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org wrote: > About possible overtemp problem: > I have an AMD AM2 motherboard, with a dual-processor CPU. After a number > of system hangs, I toook a look inside the box, and found that the > heatsink/fan assembly was no longer held tightly to the CPU. It seems the > plastic heatsink-holder that went around the CPU was broken, and the > heatsink clip could no hold the assembly tightly to the CPU. Thanks. (Did you post about this before?) Following something I remembered from the list, I tried that. Thought I would put in a little more heat-sink compound and see. Broke a fastener before I learned how the fan/heatsink came off. That's how the retailer got a second look. In this instance, the physical connection turned out to be pretty solid. The whole saga has been one d*mn thing after another. Sometime I'll have to do an organized test to see whether uninstalling the Ubuntu One package means you'll never get past the login screen again. Got a new hard drive for the re-install so that I wouldn't risk my existing data. In the shop saw obvious corrosion on filter caps on the existing motherboard, so got a new motherboard along with the new disk, and replaced the power supply, which was quite a few years old. William Park suggests power troubles -- should I cook up something with an Arduino or some comparators and a DSO? I suppose that could be done. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 15:23:01 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:23:01 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: <1343224379.73534.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOH6X00i2u5GFvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> <1343224379.73534.YahooMailNeo@web113413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1343229781.2323.14.camel@tecumseth3> On Wed, 2012-07-25 at 06:52 -0700, William Park wrote: > My guess is heat and power (in that order). Check your CPU > fan/heatsink for dust or loose contact. Then, check your power > supply. William, Thanks for the suggestion. Any suggestions on PSU monitoring? I'm thinking I could lash up a circuit for that with a DSO. I put a few more details in my reply to Duncan MacGregor -- perhaps you've seen them. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 15:55:42 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:55:42 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <20120725155542.GS19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 07:25:50AM -0400, Mel Wilson wrote: > I have a desktop system that can't get through a build of gdb-7.4.1 > without locking up the desktop, and, apparently, all other processing. > > System is MSI G41M-P26 > memory 3.9 GB, dual-processor Intel Pentium 4 3.20GHz > > O/S Ubuntu 10.04, kernel 2.6.32-41-generic-pae, GNOME 2.30.2 > > I check that it's running with a system monitor window on top, and > watching the crawl of the CPU usage graph. After the crawl stops, the > system also stops responding to the mouse and keyboard. The last run I > also had an ssh process open from another machine, and it froze at the > same time everything else did. Pinging the dead system claimed that the > destination was unreachable, and that persisted until the hung system > had been rebooted. > > Memory doesn't seem to be a problem, usually only about 10% gets used. > > After the reboot, I can't find anything in syslog or messages that look > like trouble, but I could be failing to recognize something. If it hangs, the error won't have a chance to get logged. > I wonder if it couldn't be an over-temp problem. The build makes heavy > use of both processors, and often (though not always) hangs with both > CPUs pinned at 100%. The retailer says the system is fine, but it > occurs to me that he has very pleasant air conditioning in the shop, and > I have none here at home. Any good packages for monitoring CPU > temperature? Tomorrow I'll be able to say whether doing the build at > night helps (No. Tried again at 5AM. Toronto Island said 19C. Same story.) > ISTR seeing ./configure options somewhere that would limit > the number of simultaneous processes forked by the build, but I don't > see anything like that as an option for this gdb build. Certainly could be. Pentium 4's are after all among the worst things for heat ever made. Unstable dying power supply could also have issues with heavy loads. By default it will almost certainly not do parallel builds. Generally you have to ask for it when you run make. configure has nothing to do with it. > The system usually seems rock solid doing light work like reading news, > web surfing, or drafting email. > > All hints appreciated. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 16:47:40 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:47:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: | From: Mel Wilson | I have a desktop system that can't get through a build of gdb-7.4.1 | without locking up the desktop, and, apparently, all other processing. PC systems can go flakey so many ways. They don't usually tell you why. Googling is great but your system's symptoms are so non-specific that I cannot see it helping until you get something more. I've fixed a small number of PCs -- I'm not a pro. It is easy and cheap to run memtest86+ overnight and see what it sees. Memory is the problem more often than one would think. If it isn't the problem, it is nice to know that too. Memtest86+ seems to be a boot option on my Ubuntu 10.04 system, so you don't have to look far to find it. There is a bunch of stuff to do temperature monitoring (lmsensors). I've never figured it out and each motherboard has a slightly different configuration. It sounds as if it could be useful for you. It is *really* handy to have spares to swap in and out to see if it makes a difference Power supplies fail for me more often than I'd expect. Sometimes subtly. A spare power supply is nice to have. I admit that it takes an annoying amount of work to swap one. So I put it off to well down on my list of experiments. My memory isn't what it used to be. So I keep a lab book to record details so that I can look back to see any pattern that forms. Of course it is hard to know what details are worth observing and recording. Can you do the problematic build, but switch (before the lockup) to the old-fashioned text console? There is a chance that kernel oopses or panics might show up there (but be hidden by a normal X server). There are also SysReq key combinations that do kernel diagnostic things, best done from a text console. See, for example, Do tell us what you learn. Experience is the best teacher; other people's experience is cheaper than ones own. Negative results (non-results) are useful too, and are very much under-reported. A P4 system isn't a great prize. At some point it is better to cut and run than solve a problem. This should be especially obvious if you are actually paying someone for the problem solving. This is advice that I ignore way too often. Way, way too often. Good luck! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 17:36:13 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 13:36:13 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <20120725173613.GT19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:47:40PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Mel Wilson > > | I have a desktop system that can't get through a build of gdb-7.4.1 > | without locking up the desktop, and, apparently, all other processing. > > PC systems can go flakey so many ways. They don't usually tell you > why. > > Googling is great but your system's symptoms are so non-specific that > I cannot see it helping until you get something more. > > I've fixed a small number of PCs -- I'm not a pro. > > It is easy and cheap to run memtest86+ overnight and see what it sees. > Memory is the problem more often than one would think. If it isn't the > problem, it is nice to know that too. Memtest86+ seems to be a boot > option on my Ubuntu 10.04 system, so you don't have to look far to > find it. Would be nice to know, but it can't tell you that. memtest can only tell you that your ram is bad. It can not tell you that it isn't bad since you might just not be testing in the manner that shows the failure. > There is a bunch of stuff to do temperature monitoring (lmsensors). > I've never figured it out and each motherboard has a slightly > different configuration. It sounds as if it could be useful for you. Certainly in really bad cases if the motherboard has voltage monitors, those can be useful. > It is *really* handy to have spares to swap in and out to see if it > makes a difference Certainly the most effective method in general. > Power supplies fail for me more often than I'd expect. Sometimes > subtly. A spare power supply is nice to have. I admit that it takes > an annoying amount of work to swap one. So I put it off to well down > on my list of experiments. > > My memory isn't what it used to be. So I keep a lab book to record > details so that I can look back to see any pattern that forms. Of > course it is hard to know what details are worth observing and > recording. I have had memory sticks fail and I have had power supplies fail (although in my situation they usually fail completely, but I have seen cases where they were just not working right). > Can you do the problematic build, but switch (before the lockup) to > the old-fashioned text console? There is a chance that kernel oopses > or panics might show up there (but be hidden by a normal X server). > There are also SysReq key combinations that do kernel diagnostic > things, best done from a text console. See, for example, > Serial consoles are handy so you can capture on another machine anything the kernel prints. > Do tell us what you learn. Experience is the best teacher; other > people's experience is cheaper than ones own. Negative results > (non-results) are useful too, and are very much under-reported. > > A P4 system isn't a great prize. At some point it is better to cut > and run than solve a problem. This should be especially obvious if > you are actually paying someone for the problem solving. This is > advice that I ignore way too often. Way, way too often. I am upgrading my mythtv box tonight since the hardware in it has been crashing way too often. I suspect ram/cpu/motherboard problem. So it is going from a Q6600+Asus P5K(-R)+4GB to a i7-3860+X79 sabertooh+32GB. I hope it stops crashing (and gets a wee bit faster too). My desktop can receive the old parts to replace the athlon 2800. It is allowed to be a bit unstable if I can't figure out the cause. Doing swapping of DDR2 ram, socket 775 cpu or a mainboard isn't really an option since I don't have any others of any of those. I have a machine with DDR-400, one with DDR3, and a couple with laptop ram. No help there. Also the crashes can go a few minutes, a few hours, or a few days, or even sometimes a few weeks or months. Completely unpredictable. I do think it happens more when it is hotter, but I haven't kept any logs so who knows. These things are complicated to figure out after all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 19:54:14 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: <20120725173613.GT19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> <20120725173613.GT19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:47:40PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: I forgot to mention: many failures are in connections. Just unplugging and reconnecting (or even better: permuting) every connection sometimes fixes things. Or sometimes it makes things worse, which is also good if you are trying to debug. For example: if you have two DIMMs, swap them. | > | From: Mel Wilson | > It is easy and cheap to run memtest86+ overnight and see what it sees. | > Memory is the problem more often than one would think. If it isn't the | > problem, it is nice to know that too. Memtest86+ seems to be a boot | > option on my Ubuntu 10.04 system, so you don't have to look far to | > find it. | | Would be nice to know, but it can't tell you that. memtest can only | tell you that your ram is bad. It can not tell you that it isn't bad | since you might just not be testing in the manner that shows the failure. You are right. Every debugging technique can show the presence of bugs but not their absence. But I've had a pretty good experience with memtest86+, run for many hours. Rarely, but sometimes, bugs have shown up hours in (if I recall correctly). | > It is *really* handy to have spares to swap in and out to see if it | > makes a difference | | Certainly the most effective method in general. Do remember that a swap also exercises the connectors. So if a swap changes behaviour, it does not prove that the component is the problem. | I have had memory sticks fail and I have had power supplies fail | (although in my situation they usually fail completely, but I have seen | cases where they were just not working right). I have had both subtle memory failure and subtle power supply failure. | > Can you do the problematic build, but switch (before the lockup) to | > the old-fashioned text console? There is a chance that kernel oopses | > or panics might show up there (but be hidden by a normal X server). | > There are also SysReq key combinations that do kernel diagnostic | > things, best done from a text console. See, for example, | > | | Serial consoles are handy so you can capture on another machine anything | the kernel prints. Serial console is useful but: - it slows down things because the kernel blocks (at least some things) while the message is being transmitted. - it only works on conventional serial ports (a dying capability) and expansion boards or USB to serial dongles don't count. A P4 system is old enough to have a traditional serial port. - it probably isn't any better than an old-fashioned text console if the problem is a freeze. In a freeze, any messages are likely preserved. A serial console is better if subsequent events (eg. a spontaneous reboot) would wipe the display. - a serial console is a bit arcane to set up and requires another device (eg. an ASR-33 :-)) to be at the other end of the serial cable. | I am upgrading my mythtv box tonight since the hardware in it has been | crashing way too often. I suspect ram/cpu/motherboard problem. So it | is going from a Q6600+Asus P5K(-R)+4GB to a i7-3860+X79 sabertooh+32GB. | I hope it stops crashing (and gets a wee bit faster too). My desktop | can receive the old parts to replace the athlon 2800. It is allowed to | be a bit unstable if I can't figure out the cause. Gosh, you do use serious hardware for Myth. Mine's the reverse: my desktop is a Q6600 and I have a Myth backend on an Athlon 1700. All other things being equal, I would like a Myth box that takes less energy: it is on all the time. Besides, fan noise intrudes on the TV experience. Having said that, the Athlon box's power supply went south, I replaced it (as I mentioned in this list), and now have a much noisier system. Hey: the Athlon 2800 could be handed off to Mel :-) (I'm recollecting that you don't hoard useless PCs the way I do.) | Doing swapping of DDR2 ram, socket 775 cpu or a mainboard isn't really | an option since I don't have any others of any of those. Since you surely have multiple DIMMs, you can at least permute them. Or even run for a while with a half-complement. | These things are complicated to figure out after all. Yeah. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 21:06:48 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:06:48 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> <20120725173613.GT19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120725210648.GU19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 03:54:14PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Serial console is useful but: > > - it slows down things because the kernel blocks (at least some > things) while the message is being transmitted. > > - it only works on conventional serial ports (a dying capability) and > expansion boards or USB to serial dongles don't count. A P4 system > is old enough to have a traditional serial port. > > - it probably isn't any better than an old-fashioned text console if > the problem is a freeze. In a freeze, any messages are likely > preserved. A serial console is better if subsequent events (eg. a > spontaneous reboot) would wipe the display. > > - a serial console is a bit arcane to set up and requires another > device (eg. an ASR-33 :-)) to be at the other end of the serial > cable. All true. Never mind that the devices I work on at work all have serial consoles (and in fact no other console at all). Plain old serial isn't a bad thing to have. > Gosh, you do use serious hardware for Myth. Mine's the reverse: my > desktop is a Q6600 and I have a Myth backend on an Athlon 1700. Well my box is both backend and frontend, and runs two SD tuners and an HD tuner, as well as handling file serving for the network, some web serving, runs a bittorrent client once in a while (sometimes a show fails to record after all), etc. > All other things being equal, I would like a Myth box that takes less > energy: it is on all the time. Besides, fan noise intrudes on the TV > experience. It is really quiet. I don't have a stock intel fan in it however. 4 1TB WD blacks and 2 120GB vertex 3s don't seem to make any noticeable noise. > Having said that, the Athlon box's power supply went south, I replaced > it (as I mentioned in this list), and now have a much noisier system. > > Hey: the Athlon 2800 could be handed off to Mel :-) > (I'm recollecting that you don't hoard useless PCs the way I do.) I seem to hoard useless non-PCs instead. I do still have a 486 just because I really appreciate the effort it has made over the years. It still works great. > Since you surely have multiple DIMMs, you can at least permute them. > Or even run for a while with a half-complement. If the crashes were predictable, perhaps. Dropping ram reduces caching a lot though, and it really does seem to like using the cache. It used to have 6GB ram, but one of the 2GB sticks died. Machine wouldn't even power on if it was in the box. I will do the testing once I put it in the desktop case instead. The P5K board also has an unfortunate network chip that while 64bit capable, requires that all buffers be in the same 32bit segment of ram, which is really really stupid, since all the buffers share a single 32bit register for the upper part of the address. The SATA controller in intels chipset isn't 64bit capable if you run in IDE mode, and isn't allowed to run in AHCI mode unless you have the 'R' version of the chipset (which supports "raid"), although by using the bios for the 'R' version I am running in AHCI mode which makes the disk not have an issue with 4+ GB of ram. I am not surprised the P5K line was short lived. It has issues. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 21:06:21 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:06:21 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: <1343229583.2323.10.camel@tecumseth3> References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> <1343229583.2323.10.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: On 07/25/2012 11:19 AM, Mel Wilson wrote: > On Wed, 2012-07-25 at 09:46 -0400, dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org wrote: >> About possible overtemp problem: >> I have an AMD AM2 motherboard, with a dual-processor CPU. After a number >> of system hangs, I toook a look inside the box, and found that the >> heatsink/fan assembly was no longer held tightly to the CPU. It seems the >> plastic heatsink-holder that went around the CPU was broken, and the >> heatsink clip could no hold the assembly tightly to the CPU. > Thanks. (Did you post about this before?) Following something I > remembered from the list, I tried that. Thought I would put in a little > more heat-sink compound and see. Broke a fastener before I learned how > the fan/heatsink came off. That's how the retailer got a second look. > In this instance, the physical connection turned out to be pretty solid. > > The whole saga has been one d*mn thing after another. Sometime I'll > have to do an organized test to see whether uninstalling the Ubuntu One > package means you'll never get past the login screen again. Got a new > hard drive for the re-install so that I wouldn't risk my existing data. > In the shop saw obvious corrosion on filter caps on the existing > motherboard, so got a new motherboard along with the new disk, and > replaced the power supply, which was quite a few years old. > > William Park suggests power troubles -- should I cook up something with > an Arduino or some comparators and a DSO? I suppose that could be done. > > Mel. Have you checked that the motherboard isn't shorting on anything? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 21:33:57 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:33:57 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> <1343229583.2323.10.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <1343252037.17731.3.camel@tecumseth3> On Wed, 2012-07-25 at 17:06 -0400, John Moniz wrote: > > William Park suggests power troubles -- should I cook up something with > > an Arduino or some comparators and a DSO? I suppose that could be done. > Have you checked that the motherboard isn't shorting on anything? A cursory look shows nothing obviously wrong. The thing it, it will run for days, as long as I don't try to run a big build like gdb or summon-arm-toolchain . Even building openocd doesn't seem to be enough to bring it down. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 25 22:17:31 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:17:31 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: <1343252037.17731.3.camel@tecumseth3> References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> <1343229583.2323.10.camel@tecumseth3> <1343252037.17731.3.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <20120725221731.GV19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 05:33:57PM -0400, Mel Wilson wrote: > A cursory look shows nothing obviously wrong. The thing it, it will run > for days, as long as I don't try to run a big build like gdb or > summon-arm-toolchain . Even building openocd doesn't seem to be enough > to bring it down. gdb likely runs a pretty heavy testsuite as part of the build. Overheating/bad power is still very likely the problem. Does it like a kernel build with make -j4? Perhaps a loop doing make clean and make -j4 of the kernel for a while. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 26 00:38:54 2012 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:38:54 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: <1343252037.17731.3.camel@tecumseth3> References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> <1343229583.2323.10.camel@tecumseth3> <1343252037.17731.3.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <5010919E.7000902@gmail.com> On 12-07-25 5:33 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > On Wed, 2012-07-25 at 17:06 -0400, John Moniz wrote: > >>> William Park suggests power troubles -- should I cook up something with >>> an Arduino or some comparators and a DSO? I suppose that could be done. > >> Have you checked that the motherboard isn't shorting on anything? > > A cursory look shows nothing obviously wrong. The thing it, it will run > for days, as long as I don't try to run a big build like gdb or > summon-arm-toolchain . Even building openocd doesn't seem to be enough > to bring it down. Underclocking might be a lame way to address heat issues. The board seems to have a following with the overclockers. Maybe you can bring it down a few notches instead. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 26 02:21:56 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 22:21:56 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: Mel try my image of linux on drpcdr.ca On 2012-07-25 7:26 AM, "Mel Wilson" wrote: I have a desktop system that can't get through a build of gdb-7.4.1 without locking up the desktop, and, apparently, all other processing. System is MSI G41M-P26 memory 3.9 GB, dual-processor Intel Pentium 4 3.20GHz O/S Ubuntu 10.04, kernel 2.6.32-41-generic-pae, GNOME 2.30.2 I check that it's running with a system monitor window on top, and watching the crawl of the CPU usage graph. After the crawl stops, the system also stops responding to the mouse and keyboard. The last run I also had an ssh process open from another machine, and it froze at the same time everything else did. Pinging the dead system claimed that the destination was unreachable, and that persisted until the hung system had been rebooted. Memory doesn't seem to be a problem, usually only about 10% gets used. After the reboot, I can't find anything in syslog or messages that look like trouble, but I could be failing to recognize something. I wonder if it couldn't be an over-temp problem. The build makes heavy use of both processors, and often (though not always) hangs with both CPUs pinned at 100%. The retailer says the system is fine, but it occurs to me that he has very pleasant air conditioning in the shop, and I have none here at home. Any good packages for monitoring CPU temperature? Tomorrow I'll be able to say whether doing the build at night helps (No. Tried again at 5AM. Toronto Island said 19C. Same story.) ISTR seeing ./configure options somewhere that would limit the number of simultaneous processes forked by the build, but I don't see anything like that as an option for this gdb build. The system usually seems rock solid doing light work like reading news, web surfing, or drafting email. All hints appreciated. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 26 02:34:21 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 22:34:21 -0400 Subject: Dtrace and containers ported to Linux Message-ID: FYI Just noticed that it look like dtrace and containers will be part of Linux soon. We are too spoiled with choices may be ? https://oss.oracle.com/ol6/docs/RELEASE-NOTES-UEK2-en.html#btrfs Technology Preview Features In addition to the features listed above, the Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel Release 2 includes the following features which are still under development, but are already made available for testing/evaluation purposes. Kernel module signing facility: Applies cryptographic signature checking to modules on module load, checking the signature against a ring of public keys compiled into the kernel. GPG is used to do the cryptographic work and determines the format of the signature and key data. Linux Containers (lxc): Based on the Linux Cgroups and name spaces functionality, containers allow you to safely and securely run multiple applications or instances of an operating system on a single host without risking them interfering with each other. Containers are lightweight and resource-friendly, which saves both rack space and power. In order to get started with containers, you need to install the "lxc" package, which is included in the package repository of the Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel. Transcendent memory: Transcendent Memory (tmem for short) provides a new approach for improving the utilization of physical memory in a virtualized environment by claiming underutilized memory in a system and making it available where it is most needed. From the perspective of an operating system, tmem is fast pseudo-RAM of indeterminate and varying size that is useful primarily when real RAM is in short supply. To learn more about this technology and its use cases, see the Transcendent Memory project page on oss.oracle.com: http://oss.oracle.com/projects/tmem/ DTrace: DTrace is a comprehensive dynamic tracing framework that was initially developed for the Oracle Solaris operating system; it is being ported to Linux by Oracle. DTrace provides a powerful infrastructure to permit administrators, developers, and service personnel to concisely answer arbitrary questions about the behavior of the operating system and user programs in real time. DTrace feature previews will be published as a separate set of kernel packages, it is not yet included in the regular Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel distribution. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 26 02:39:37 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 22:39:37 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: <1343229583.2323.10.camel@tecumseth3> References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> <1343229583.2323.10.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <20120726023937.GA32377@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 11:19:43AM -0400, Mel Wilson wrote: > On Wed, 2012-07-25 at 09:46 -0400, dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org wrote: > > About possible overtemp problem: > > I have an AMD AM2 motherboard, with a dual-processor CPU. After a number > > of system hangs, I toook a look inside the box, and found that the > > heatsink/fan assembly was no longer held tightly to the CPU. It seems the > > plastic heatsink-holder that went around the CPU was broken, and the > > heatsink clip could no hold the assembly tightly to the CPU. > > Thanks. (Did you post about this before?) Following something I > remembered from the list, I tried that. Thought I would put in a little > more heat-sink compound and see. Broke a fastener before I learned how > the fan/heatsink came off. That's how the retailer got a second look. > In this instance, the physical connection turned out to be pretty solid. > > The whole saga has been one d*mn thing after another. Sometime I'll > have to do an organized test to see whether uninstalling the Ubuntu One > package means you'll never get past the login screen again. Got a new > hard drive for the re-install so that I wouldn't risk my existing data. > In the shop saw obvious corrosion on filter caps on the existing > motherboard, so got a new motherboard along with the new disk, and > replaced the power supply, which was quite a few years old. > > William Park suggests power troubles -- should I cook up something with > an Arduino or some comparators and a DSO? I suppose that could be done. If you replaced motherboard, disk, and power supplies, then what about memory? After that, the only thing left is cpu, which is unlikely but could happen. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 26 02:49:53 2012 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 22:49:53 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <20120726024953.GZ32452@adb.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Power supplies fail for me more often than I'd expect. Sometimes > subtly. And sometimes not, though since I knew which machine had just dropped off the net before jogging over to the computer room I really didn't need the plume of smoke coming out the PSU fan to help point it out to me. Years ago, and I can still remember the smell of it. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 26 02:58:37 2012 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 22:58:37 -0400 Subject: Dtrace and containers ported to Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120726025837.GA32452@adb.ca> William Muriithi wrote: > Just noticed that it look like dtrace and containers will be part of > Linux soon. We are too spoiled with choices may be ? > > https://oss.oracle.com/ol6/docs/RELEASE-NOTES-UEK2-en.html#btrfs > ... > Kernel module signing facility: Applies cryptographic signature > checking to modules on module load, checking the signature against a > ring of public keys compiled into the kernel. GPG is used to do the > cryptographic work and determines the format of the signature and key > data. Ah, but the tricky question is whether it's for them or for us: will you be able to build a third-party module and load it into your Oracle kernel? Will this be the ultimate taint check? > Linux Containers (lxc): Based on the Linux Cgroups and name spaces ... While Oracle wasn't looking, at least Debian, Gentoo, and Fedora users have already been playing with LXC, or even using them in production. It's still relatively new functionality, but it works and it's making it into the mainstream. > Transcendent memory: Transcendent Memory (tmem for short) provides a > new approach for improving the utilization of physical memory in a > virtualized environment ... Could be useful. Most virtualization models carve off chunks of RAM for VMs and don't have much by way of co-operation between host and guest in memory management. > DTrace: DTrace is a comprehensive dynamic tracing framework that was > initially developed for the Oracle Solaris operating system; it is > being ported to Linux by Oracle. ... And are they releasing source? Last I heard that was a complicated issue. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 26 11:45:47 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 07:45:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dtrace and containers ported to Linux In-Reply-To: <20120726025837.GA32452-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20120726025837.GA32452@adb.ca> Message-ID: | From: Anthony de Boer | William Muriithi wrote: | > DTrace: DTrace is a comprehensive dynamic tracing framework that was | > initially developed for the Oracle Solaris operating system; it is | > being ported to Linux by Oracle. ... | | And are they releasing source? Last I heard that was a complicated | issue. Good question. They pretty much have to release the kernel part. Unless it is packaged as modules, in which case they'll get an argument (some think modules are derived works, some assume not). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 26 16:26:13 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:26:13 -0400 Subject: Dtrace and containers ported to Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120726162613.GW19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 10:34:21PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Just noticed that it look like dtrace and containers will be part of > Linux soon. We are too spoiled with choices may be ? > > https://oss.oracle.com/ol6/docs/RELEASE-NOTES-UEK2-en.html#btrfs > > Technology Preview Features > > In addition to the features listed above, the Unbreakable Enterprise > Kernel Release 2 includes the following features which are still under > development, but are already made available for testing/evaluation > purposes. > > Kernel module signing facility: Applies cryptographic signature > checking to modules on module load, checking the signature against a > ring of public keys compiled into the kernel. GPG is used to do the > cryptographic work and determines the format of the signature and key > data. Redhat has been doing that for years. Or at least something similar. > Linux Containers (lxc): Based on the Linux Cgroups and name spaces > functionality, containers allow you to safely and securely run > multiple applications or instances of an operating system on a single > host without risking them interfering with each other. Containers are > lightweight and resource-friendly, which saves both rack space and > power. In order to get started with containers, you need to install > the "lxc" package, which is included in the package repository of the > Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel. This has been around a while. We use it on Debian already. > Transcendent memory: Transcendent Memory (tmem for short) provides a > new approach for improving the utilization of physical memory in a > virtualized environment by claiming underutilized memory in a system > and making it available where it is most needed. From the perspective > of an operating system, tmem is fast pseudo-RAM of indeterminate and > varying size that is useful primarily when real RAM is in short > supply. To learn more about this technology and its use cases, see the > Transcendent Memory project page on oss.oracle.com: > http://oss.oracle.com/projects/tmem/ Interesting but complex idea it seems. > DTrace: DTrace is a comprehensive dynamic tracing framework that was > initially developed for the Oracle Solaris operating system; it is > being ported to Linux by Oracle. DTrace provides a powerful > infrastructure to permit administrators, developers, and service > personnel to concisely answer arbitrary questions about the behavior > of the operating system and user programs in real time. DTrace feature > previews will be published as a separate set of kernel packages, it is > not yet included in the regular Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel > distribution. I wonder what license it is under this time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 26 19:31:36 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:31:36 -0400 Subject: Apache access list - Does order matter ? Message-ID: Afternoon, I have read that apache access list order matter but I am sometimes get confused as I have seen plenty of place where allow is ahead of deny. Now, I got to say that a bit inconsistent. Does it actually matter? Would it be safe to allows use "deny all" before allowing specific IPs? How does apache process them? Or rather at what instance should once start with "allow all" before then using deny? See example below from the apache documentations. ============= Access control by environment variable mod_authz_host, in conjunction with mod_setenvif, can be used to restrict access to your website based on the value of arbitrary environment variables. This is done with the Allow from env= and Deny from env= syntax. SetEnvIf User-Agent BadBot GoAway=1 Order allow,deny Allow from all Deny from env=GoAway Warning: Access control by User-Agent is an unreliable technique, since the User-Agent header can be set to anything at all, at the whim of the end user. In the above example, the environment variable GoAway is set to 1 if the User-Agent matches the string BadBot. Then we deny access for any request when this variable is set. This blocks that particular user agent from the site. An environment variable test can be negated using the =! syntax: Allow from env=!GoAway ========================= William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 26 19:41:39 2012 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:41:39 -0400 Subject: Apache access list - Does order matter ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi William, > How does apache process them? Or rather at what instance should once > start with "allow all" before then using deny? >From the apache manual: The Order directive, along with the Allow and Deny directives, controls a three-pass access control system. The first pass processes either all Allow or all Deny directives, as specified by the Order directive. The second pass parses the rest of the directives (Deny or Allow). The third pass applies to all requests which do not match either of the first two. The case of allow all and then deny could be used as a whack-a-mole style pest block. Most people are fine but some network isn't honouring your robot.txt file, for example, so you block them without affecting anyone else. The more common case is deny and then allow though. > SetEnvIf User-Agent BadBot GoAway=1 > Order allow,deny > Allow from all > Deny from env=GoAway I looked at this, but I used the rewrite engine instead for a pest block: RewriteEngine On RewriteCond %{HTTP_USER_AGENT} 80legs RewriteRule ^.* - [F,L] These guys are a distributed, for hire, search engine and they really pissed me off a few times. They no longer get to contact us. :) Thanks -Ben -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Walton Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 27 13:46:28 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:46:28 -0400 Subject: OT: VMFS performance Message-ID: Morning This may be slightly off topic as it has nothing to do with Linux, but since vmware seem to be popular, we may have something to share. I do not like vmware and my beef with it is lack of visibility. My current problem is making sure that we are not I/O bound. On xen or kvm, this would be a walk in the park. On vmware, well don't know how to be certain of that. I have checked esxtop but it seem only to show read write throughput, not whether the system is I/O saturated. I usually get that information from utilization when using iostat. So the question is, how do you guys monitor vmfs performance? Have there benchmarks between vmfs against any of the Linux based file systems ? I am suspecting it perform a bit slowly that for example ext4 Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 27 13:54:34 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:54:34 -0400 Subject: OT: VMFS performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50129D9A.1040205@utoronto.ca> On 27/07/12 09:46 AM, William Muriithi wrote: > Morning > > This may be slightly off topic as it has nothing to do with Linux, but > since vmware seem to be popular, we may have something to share. I do > not like vmware and my beef with it is lack of visibility. > > My current problem is making sure that we are not I/O bound. On xen > or kvm, this would be a walk in the park. On vmware, well don't know > how to be certain of that. I have checked esxtop but it seem only to > show read write throughput, not whether the system is I/O saturated. > I usually get that information from utilization when using iostat. > > So the question is, how do you guys monitor vmfs performance? Have > there benchmarks between vmfs against any of the Linux based file > systems ? I am suspecting it perform a bit slowly that for example > ext4 One thing to check is that you have your schedulers all optimized. Usually for me on Xen with a fast storage backend, I make sure to use noop on all domUs, and then adjust the dom0 scheduler according to the workload. I don't see why doing the same with Vmware would be a problem. At least then you have controlled for VMs thinking they know better. One less variable to have to troubleshoot. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 27 15:47:34 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:47:34 -0400 Subject: Problem: my desktop system hangs. Question: what to do next In-Reply-To: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> References: <1343215550.2067.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <1343404054.6026.6.camel@tecumseth3> On Wed, 2012-07-25 at 07:25 -0400, Mel Wilson wrote: > I have a desktop system that can't get through a build of gdb-7.4.1 > without locking up the desktop, and, apparently, all other processing. Many thanks to everybody who replied, and everybody who thought about my troubles. The problem seems to be solved: I turned of Hyperthreading. The gdb build just finished after 5 minutes or so. It makes sense. When I was watching the "dual" CPU crawl from System Monitor, I was struck by the symmetry: CPU0 usage went down when CPU1 usage went up, and vice versa. Seems obvious now that I realize I was looking at one dual-threaded core. Similarly when the system locked with both CPUs pinned at 100%, I'm looking at one core pinned at 200%, or at a reporting artifact based on some impossible hardware state. "Elementary," said he. Thanks again, Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 30 19:39:01 2012 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 15:39:01 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan Message-ID: Does anyone have the details on this ? Dave Cramer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 30 20:06:01 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:06:01 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5016E929.4000604@rogers.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > Does anyone have the details on this ? The info is on the Rogers site: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 30 21:41:37 2012 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: <5016E929.4000604-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5016E929.4000604@rogers.com> Message-ID: <0a69a758dbf734bfab2326279ee26202@webmail.look.ca> That's a CAP of 6GB. Little more than one DVD of data for sixty bucks. > Dave Cramer wrote: >> Does anyone have the details on this ? > > > The info is on the Rogers site: > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 30 21:52:31 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:52:31 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: <0a69a758dbf734bfab2326279ee26202-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <5016E929.4000604@rogers.com> <0a69a758dbf734bfab2326279ee26202@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20120730215231.GX19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 05:41:37PM -0400, dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org wrote: > That's a CAP of 6GB. Little more than one DVD of data for sixty bucks. Along with phone service, unlimited weekends and evenings, etc. You are not just paying for the data service after all -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 30 21:58:58 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:58:58 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: <0a69a758dbf734bfab2326279ee26202-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <5016E929.4000604@rogers.com> <0a69a758dbf734bfab2326279ee26202@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <501703A2.3010600@rogers.com> dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org wrote: > That's a CAP of 6GB. Little more than one DVD of data for sixty bucks. On a smart phone, 6 GB is a lot. You don't use anywhere near as much as you would with a desktop computer. I've had a 6 GB plan for about 2 years and never come anywhere that amount, even though I occasionally tether my notebook computer to my phone. It's even cheaper to use VoIP over data than the regular cell phone minutes. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 30 22:02:27 2012 From: alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:02:27 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: <20120730215231.GX19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <5016E929.4000604@rogers.com> <0a69a758dbf734bfab2326279ee26202@webmail.look.ca> <20120730215231.GX19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I've been on a 6GB plan with Rogers for at least 2 years now. In my experience there's never been an issue with data, but I suppose that's because I use my phone for its original purpose: telephone calls. Yes, I do occasionally surf the web and check the odd video on my phone, but that's only when a full computer isn't available. If you're planning to use it for tethering, I can see the cap being an issue. I don't use this feature, and since I run an Android phone, wireless networking is available by default. If I really want Internet access, I join the closest available network and do my surfing that way. Alex Gabriel "We will code a sinister empire through performance nachos." On Jul 30, 2012 5:52 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 05:41:37PM -0400, dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org wrote: > > That's a CAP of 6GB. Little more than one DVD of data for sixty bucks. > > Along with phone service, unlimited weekends and evenings, etc. > > You are not just paying for the data service after all > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 30 22:28:43 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:28:43 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: References: <5016E929.4000604@rogers.com> <0a69a758dbf734bfab2326279ee26202@webmail.look.ca> <20120730215231.GX19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <50170A9B.8060908@rogers.com> Alex Gabriel wrote: > > I've been on a 6GB plan with Rogers for at least 2 years now. In my > experience there's never been an issue with data, but I suppose that's > because I use my phone for its original purpose: telephone calls. > > Yes, I do occasionally surf the web and check the odd video on my > phone, but that's only when a full computer isn't available. > > If you're planning to use it for tethering, I can see the cap being an > issue. I don't use this feature, and since I run an Android phone, > wireless networking is available by default. If I really want > Internet access, I join the closest available network and do my > surfing that way. > When I got my 6 GB data plan, there was a special on which made it only $5/month more expensive than the smallest plan (500 MB IIRC), so I went with it then. However, it's nice to know, even with tethering, that I'm unlikely to come anywhere near the limit. I also use WiFi with my Android phone when available. But even if it wasn't, I'm still not worried. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 30 23:08:33 2012 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 19:08:33 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <501713F1.4040602@gmail.com> i have a 6gb data plan with bell, plus 2000 LD minutes. free evening and weekend, and other perks. Its 80$/mon. Wonder what else Rogers offers with that plan, if its 60$/mon.? -tl On 07/30/2012 03:39 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > Does anyone have the details on this ? > > > Dave Cramer > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 30 23:11:12 2012 From: alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 19:11:12 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: <50170A9B.8060908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5016E929.4000604@rogers.com> <0a69a758dbf734bfab2326279ee26202@webmail.look.ca> <20120730215231.GX19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50170A9B.8060908@rogers.com> Message-ID: So it seems you got your plan around the same time as I did. I recall thinking at the time that the extra $5.00 in fees was well worth gaining an additional 5.5GB of additional traffic. I think the most I have ever used is about 750mb, and that was due to tethering. It's my opinion that most smart phone users aren't ever going to come to that limit, at least without the use of tethering. Alex Gabriel "We will code a sinister empire through performance nachos." On Jul 30, 2012 6:28 PM, "James Knott" wrote: > Alex Gabriel wrote: > >> >> I've been on a 6GB plan with Rogers for at least 2 years now. In my >> experience there's never been an issue with data, but I suppose that's >> because I use my phone for its original purpose: telephone calls. >> >> Yes, I do occasionally surf the web and check the odd video on my phone, >> but that's only when a full computer isn't available. >> >> If you're planning to use it for tethering, I can see the cap being an >> issue. I don't use this feature, and since I run an Android phone, wireless >> networking is available by default. If I really want Internet access, I >> join the closest available network and do my surfing that way. >> >> > When I got my 6 GB data plan, there was a special on which made it only > $5/month more expensive than the smallest plan (500 MB IIRC), so I went > with it then. However, it's nice to know, even with tethering, that I'm > unlikely to come anywhere near the limit. I also use WiFi with my Android > phone when available. But even if it wasn't, I'm still not worried. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 30 23:12:08 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 19:12:08 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: <16145_1343689677_q6UN7utU017053_501713F1.4040602-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <16145_1343689677_q6UN7utU017053_501713F1.4040602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <501714C8.6020405@utoronto.ca> On 12-07-30 07:08 PM, Ted wrote: > i have a 6gb data plan with bell, plus 2000 LD minutes. free evening and > weekend, and other perks. > Its 80$/mon. Wonder what else Rogers offers with that plan, if its > 60$/mon.? $40 with Wind for unlimited calling, data, long distance, and text. Geographically speaking things are a bit limited. I've chewed through 5GB of data numerous times while working in Barrie (I tether with VPN for work) and the only penalty is a speed decrease. No overage fees. I couldn't be happier with them. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 31 01:19:49 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 21:19:49 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: <501713F1.4040602-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <501713F1.4040602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <501732B5.10808@rogers.com> Ted wrote: > i have a 6gb data plan with bell, plus 2000 LD minutes. free evening > and weekend, and other perks. > Its 80$/mon. Wonder what else Rogers offers with that plan, if its > 60$/mon.? There's unlimited SMS, your choice of 10 Canadian numbers with unlimited calls. Unlimited evenings & weekends, 200 day time minutes. As for long distance minutes, there's nothing to stop you from using Dell Voice to have free long distance to most of Canada. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 31 01:21:58 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 21:21:58 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: <501714C8.6020405-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <16145_1343689677_q6UN7utU017053_501713F1.4040602@gmail.com> <501714C8.6020405@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <50173336.2020704@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > $40 with Wind for unlimited calling, data, long distance, and text. > Geographically speaking things are a bit limited. I've chewed through > 5GB of data numerous times while working in Barrie (I tether with VPN > for work) and the only penalty is a speed decrease. No overage fees. What happens when you have to roam (on Rogers IIRC). Rogers customers have to leave the country to roam. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 31 01:26:14 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 21:26:14 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: <50173336.2020704-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <16145_1343689677_q6UN7utU017053_501713F1.4040602@gmail.com> <501714C8.6020405@utoronto.ca> <50173336.2020704@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50173436.5090002@utoronto.ca> On 12-07-30 09:21 PM, James Knott wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: >> $40 with Wind for unlimited calling, data, long distance, and text. >> Geographically speaking things are a bit limited. I've chewed through >> 5GB of data numerous times while working in Barrie (I tether with VPN >> for work) and the only penalty is a speed decrease. No overage fees. > > What happens when you have to roam (on Rogers IIRC). Rogers customers > have to leave the country to roam. It switches to Rogers. So far though, Wind from Niagra to Barrie and Montreal have all been fine for me. They seem to be in major urban corridors. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 31 01:30:58 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 21:30:58 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: <50173436.5090002-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <16145_1343689677_q6UN7utU017053_501713F1.4040602@gmail.com> <501714C8.6020405@utoronto.ca> <50173336.2020704@rogers.com> <50173436.5090002@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <50173552.3020007@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: >> What happens when you have to roam (on Rogers IIRC). Rogers customers >> >have to leave the country to roam. > It switches to Rogers. So far though, Wind from Niagra to Barrie and > Montreal have all been fine for me. They seem to be in major urban > corridors. I was thinking more of costs, available services etc. when roaming. IIRC, some Wind phones are only 2G when roaming. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 31 02:24:10 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 22:24:10 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: <50173552.3020007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <16145_1343689677_q6UN7utU017053_501713F1.4040602@gmail.com> <501714C8.6020405@utoronto.ca> <50173336.2020704@rogers.com> <50173436.5090002@utoronto.ca> <50173552.3020007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <501741CA.1090501@utoronto.ca> On 12-07-30 09:30 PM, James Knott wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: >>> What happens when you have to roam (on Rogers IIRC). Rogers customers >>> >have to leave the country to roam. >> It switches to Rogers. So far though, Wind from Niagra to Barrie and >> Montreal have all been fine for me. They seem to be in major urban >> corridors. > > I was thinking more of costs, available services etc. when roaming. > IIRC, some Wind phones are only 2G when roaming. No idea - I don't use data while in transit and have my phone setup to disable it entirely when on 2g. I will use it for calls while at the cottage if absolutely necessary, but even then the usual $0.15-0.25/minute fees are fine for emergency calls compared to what I save overall. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 31 03:03:20 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 23:03:20 -0400 Subject: rogers offering a 6G data plan In-Reply-To: <501732B5.10808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <501713F1.4040602@gmail.com> <501732B5.10808@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50174AF8.2080604@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Ted wrote: >> i have a 6gb data plan with bell, plus 2000 LD minutes. free evening >> and weekend, and other perks. >> Its 80$/mon. Wonder what else Rogers offers with that plan, if its >> 60$/mon.? > There's unlimited SMS, your choice of 10 Canadian numbers with > unlimited calls. Unlimited evenings & weekends, 200 day time > minutes. As for long distance minutes, there's nothing to stop you > from using Dell Voice to have free long distance to most of Canada. > > One other thing. This plan includes LTE, which previously was significantly more expensive than 3G. It won't make any difference for me with my 2 year old Google Nexus One, but newer phones now support LTE, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 31 18:01:14 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:01:14 -0400 Subject: ISC Diary | End of Days for MS-CHAPv2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI Look like its not prudent to use PPTP any more, just in case someone depends on it http://isc.sans.edu/diary/End+of+Days+for+MS-CHAPv2/13807 William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: