Ubuntu first time

[Alejandro Imass]

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Thomas Milne
<thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Alejandro Imass <aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Thomas Milne
>> <thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Alejandro Imass <aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 9:16 PM, Thomas Milne
>>>> <thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Alejandro Imass <aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Lennart Sorensen
>>>>>> <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 09, 2012 at 02:41:13PM -0500, Alejandro Imass wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>
>> [...]
>>

[...]

>> My seven year old son uses Debian Unstable. He navigates the menu and
>> clicks on things and plays games. Really, if you know how to run an
>> application, whether it's a game or an Xterm for Emacs, who cares?
>>Like I said, no one here, not even me the designated 'computer guy' in

EVERYTHING you said applies to ANY Linux-based system and practically
of ANY distro. Ease of use and stability is the reason why people who
switch to Linux hardly ever go back to Windows.

The greatness of Linux is not a Debian thing, sorry.

[...]

> I'm not saying anything is a piece of crap. I did point out that YOU
> said there were 'versions' of Ubuntu that you would not use, which is
> exactly why I don't use Ubuntu, and exactly why Ubuntu fails to meet a
> basic element of reliability: easy and safe upgrades. It has nothing

You may not use the word crap literally, but in this paragraph alone
you are contradicting yourself.

The fact that "easy and safe upgrades" may hold true for some doesn't
mean it's _the truth_. It depends on what you use your computer for
and the types and quantities of packages you have installed.

I for one, HAVE NEVER been able to get a dist-upgrade to work
correctly in Debian NOR Ubuntu. Notice that I am _particularly_
referring to dist-upgrade not regular upgrades. Similar mechanism
haven't worked for us in other distros either and that's because a
fundamental problem in the way ALL Linux distros are built, and BTW
one of the fundamental advantages of *BSD like systems.

Now, some people may come here and say I have a computer that I have
dist-upgraded since Woody, and that maybe perfectly true, but in my
humble 14 year experience with Linux, it is many times not the case.
If dist-upgrades work for you, then good for you. For us they haven't
and we partition our machines in a specific way to be able to
re-install new versions without much hassle, basically isolating /home
usually suffices, so we don't really care.

The ease of use, stability and easiness of upgrades is hardly a Debian
trait, it's a Linux trait, and the tons of great Open Source Software
projects around it.

> to do with my personal feelings one way or the other. If some people
> find that Ubuntu works for them, that's awesome. Some people want
> Skype, and I guess Skype is easier to install on Ubuntu. Great. Some
> people have laptops that need special drivers for wireless, and they
> say Ubuntu is easier for that. Perfect.
>

Yeah, well that has been my point all along: avoid unfair bashing and FUD.
And it's the _only_ reason I've kept answering this long, boring and
inflammatory thread.

> My only objection is your continued characterization of Debian
> Unstable, which just doesn't match up with facts, at least none that
> I've ever seen or heard of or experienced.
>

It's called a difference of opinion. Every usage scenario will have a
different set of facts. In my set of facts I wouldn't touch Debian
unstable with a ten foot pole, but I would install a fresh Ubuntu
regardless of the version. In your set of facts, it's just the
opposite, so let's be content with this fact and give this thread a
peaceful and deserved rest.

Once again may I stress: I also use and prefer Debian for other
situations (or Slack, CentOS, and even RHEL or whatever _better fits
the bill for that particular situation_[1]), but in either case I
would bash against anyone of them, because I love Linux, FreeBSD,
Perl, and Open Source in general, not Debian or Ubuntu in particular.

Cheers,

-- 
Alejandro Imass

[1] A typical (yet not the only) scenario for using RHEL is for
customers that hate Windows but love their Oracle. I've gotten Oracle
to run on Debian, but Oracle won't give you any support, so in this
particular case Debian is basically useless.
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