Ubuntu first time

[Thomas Milne]

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Lennart Sorensen
<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:54:57AM -0500, Alejandro Imass wrote:
>> It does happen with Debian also and just saying it doesn't mean it's
>> true. You post is typical Debianite zealotry that ultimately leads to
>> errors like the ssh scandal, which you seem to have deliberately
>> ignored in my last post. They do happen in Debian, *very publicly and
>> shamefully so* - it was Debian stable, so don't say they don't happen
>> "Ever", because it undermines the credibility of your whole post.
>>
>> I can understand why Debianites are pissed off at Ubuntu but it
>> doesn't justify creating FUD on it, on ANY Linux distro for that
>> matter.
>
> My problem with Ubuntu is that their idiotic fixed release dates means
> they are releasing unstable and often broken software which frequently
> breaks things when upgrading.  I thoroughly believe in releasing stuff
> when it is ready and not before.  Ubuntu clearly doesn't care.
>
> Ubuntu had a lovely X server upgrade a few years ago that completely
> broke X for anyone using an intel video chip.  Apparently most Ubuntu
> developers don't use that.  Most users apaprently do.  I don't remember if
> it was a security update or not, but it was an update to a stable release.
>
>> I don't install _any_ software on it's point o version. In Ubuntu it
>> seems they have adopted Microsoft's approach to client beta testing
>> but at least they don't charge people for it. The .10 versions seem to
>> be quite stable, and people should wait for those.
>
> .10 means released in October.  No more, no less.  .04 means released
> in April.  No more, no less.
>
>> Oh my god! I have a typo, please spare my life!
>>
>> If you are a Debian user you know for a fact that Debian unstable is
>> so quirky it makes it unusable, un-usable, not-usable, or whatever you
>> wanna call it, like it's very name: unstable and hardly good for any
>> practical use.
>
> stable and unstable in Debian terms means 'packages don't change versions
> and packages do change versions'.
>
> If you want unstable software in Debian, you would at least have to go
> to experimental.  unstable is perfectly usable 99.9% of the time.

I wanted the latest Gnome Shell (I know, I know), so I'm now running
quite a bit of Experimental. Still, IT WILL NOT BREAK. Zero problems.
If I had a third machine I would love to try as much of Experimental
as possible, just to see.

This is perhaps one of the reasons Debian users might have earned a
rep for 'zealotry' over the years, I suppose. But from what I've seen
personally, it's entirely based on facts. I really have no reason to
even care, I would gladly try something else if I thought it would
work better.

>> "Testing" is quite good and probably the best choice for doing
>> anything on the desktop that requires some relatively new version of
>> anything. Stable is great for servers yet the packaging is so old it
>> can be challenging sometimes to get things done and you may wind up
>> compiling many things from source.
>>
>> Debian is a great OS, but so is Ubuntu and it's unfair to create this
>> FUD just because YOU think Debian is awesome and Ubuntu is crap,
>> because it's not. They satisfy different needs and to solve real-world
>> problems, and so do the other Linux distros, and non Linux OSes as
>> well.
>
> I do like some of what Ubuntu has done, and they certainly are helping
> Debian with many things (like multiarch).  I just want them to stop
> releasing things before they are tested and ready.
>
> Also what the heck were they thinking with Unity?
>
> --
> Len Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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-- 
Thomas Milne
--
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