Ubuntu first time

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 08:38:11AM -0500, Alejandro Imass wrote:
> First of all I am not upset, and don't turn this around on me. If you
> read back on the thread you will realize the point here is my
> objection on your unfair criticism on Ubuntu and the position that
> Debian is the greatest thing ever. You can criticize the choices made
> by Ubuntu but you shouldn't dismiss it as a piece of crap.
> 
> To answer your question is very simple: As a business, I would not use
> Debian unstable on a typical workstation because of the support costs
> associated with it, but I would (and do) use Ubuntu because the
> support resources are vast and my employees can usually solve problems
> on their own.
> 
> On the contrary, when using Debian unstable you are basically on your
> own, an this goes not only for Debian, but also when using _any_
> unstable version of anything, including FreeBSD or any other. For
> unstable versions, it is expected from the communities that you are
> hacking your way through with the bleeding edge and you can't (and
> shouldn't) expect a great level of support. On the contrary, it is
> expected that you contribute by finding, reporting and perhaps fixing
> the bugs. This is fine, and perhaps exciting, if you are an
> experienced hacker, but it's not when that's not your business
> objective.

I find the support of Debian's mailing lists excellent, and hence not
a problem for running unstable.

> In that sense, Debian unstable "is hardly good for any practical use"
> other than being used by an expert-level user, and in that sense
> Ubuntu is superior than Debian unstable. It's better for business,
> period. And that is __exactly__ what I said.

The thing is the Ubuntu machines I have experience with (such as the
machine my wife has on her desk at school) involves serious breakages on
many upgrades from one version to another, to the point where reinstalling
the machine was apparently the simplest way out.  That is far worse that
I encounter with Debian unstable.  So from what I have seen and read of
Ubuntu upgrade disasters, I would choose debian unstable over Ubuntu if
I was running an IT department and had to support the workstations.
It would be less work from what I have seen.

Of course testing would probably be an even better choice.

So in my experience and from what I have from other people using Ubuntu,
Ubuntu would NOT be better for business because it would not be easier
to support.  So there is no benefit in that case.

> Now on the other hand, if I'm going to deploy a few dozen appliances
> and I need long-term reliability I wouldn't use Ubuntu but rather
> Debian stable and in this case Debian is better for business. So
> whether one or the other is "good" or not depends very much on the
> application.
> 
> The whole point I've been trying to convey is that each one has it's
> pros and cons and it's unfair to bash against one just because you
> don't like it. I would do the same if someone comes here and implies
> that Debian or any other distro or Open Source OS is a piece of crap.
> 
> Hope this answers your question.

Yes, but I don't agree with your facts.  They don't match my data.

To me it is simple.

If your hardware supports it, run Debian stable.  If you need a few
packages of newer versions for some reason, then use debian backports.

If your hardware is too new for stable (it happens), then either use
stable with the backport kernel if possible, or use testing if necesary.

If you want to play around and try new stuff and know what you are doing,
have fun with unstable.  Just pay attension during upgrades since
sometimes apt will happily remove gnome to satisfy some other dependancies
during a transition to a new version of something major.  In that case
it might be better to put something on hold, or to upgrade later, unless
you don't want gnome or whatever else is going to be removed.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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