From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 11:53:14 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 07:53:14 -0400 Subject: Where to find physically small USB memory keys. Message-ID: I've been playing around with an embedded style controller project, which I have working more-or-less the way I want, but because of the USB memory key is larger than I would like. Scott Sullivan has pointed me at a source of very small USB memory keys, but from a firm that only seems to do mail (web?) order in Canada, an issue as I would like to show this off early next week to some co-workers. So, does anyone know a source of VERY small 16+ GB USB memory keys in the GTA? Thanks. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 13:27:28 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 09:27:28 -0400 Subject: Where to find physically small USB memory keys. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1343827648.1949.6.camel@tecumseth3> On Wed, 2012-08-01 at 07:53 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I've been playing around with an embedded style controller project, > which I have working more-or-less the way I want, but because of the > USB memory key is larger than I would like. > > Scott Sullivan has pointed me at a source of very small USB memory > keys, but from a firm that only seems to do mail (web?) order in > Canada, an issue as I would like to show this off early next week to > some co-workers. > > So, does anyone know a source of VERY small 16+ GB USB memory keys in the GTA? How small, approximately? Way back when I got some Kingmax keys which were 34 x 12.4 x 2.2 mm including their plastic sleeve. Got them at the store at College&Spadina that was called A+ then. Only 2GB capacity, but that was years ago, and they could have advanced since. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 13:33:14 2012 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 09:33:14 -0400 Subject: Where to find physically small USB memory keys. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How small is "VERY small"? Does the Verbatim Tuff'n'tiny count? Capacity goes up to 32GB. http://www.verbatim.com/prod/usb-drives/everyday-usb-drives/tuff-n-tiny-sku-96816/ Vic Gedris - http://vic.gedris.org Toronto, Ontario, Canada - http://www.junctiontriangle.ca On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > I've been playing around with an embedded style controller project, > which I have working more-or-less the way I want, but because of the > USB memory key is larger than I would like. > > Scott Sullivan has pointed me at a source of very small USB memory > keys, but from a firm that only seems to do mail (web?) order in > Canada, an issue as I would like to show this off early next week to > some co-workers. > > So, does anyone know a source of VERY small 16+ GB USB memory keys in the GTA? > > Thanks. > > > Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 13:36:28 2012 From: davecramer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 09:36:28 -0400 Subject: Nokia N800 and N770 cheap Message-ID: I have one of each of these that have been sitting around. Make me an offer. Keep in mind I live in Orangeville. I won't be delivering them. Dave Cramer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 14:14:37 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 10:14:37 -0400 Subject: Where to find physically small USB memory keys. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Vic Gedris wrote: > How small is "VERY small"? Does the Verbatim Tuff'n'tiny count? > Capacity goes up to 32GB. > http://www.verbatim.com/prod/usb-drives/everyday-usb-drives/tuff-n-tiny-sku-96816/ Ideally this small or smaller : http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211545 Colin. > Vic Gedris - http://vic.gedris.org > Toronto, Ontario, Canada - http://www.junctiontriangle.ca > > > On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> I've been playing around with an embedded style controller project, >> which I have working more-or-less the way I want, but because of the >> USB memory key is larger than I would like. >> >> Scott Sullivan has pointed me at a source of very small USB memory >> keys, but from a firm that only seems to do mail (web?) order in >> Canada, an issue as I would like to show this off early next week to >> some co-workers. >> >> So, does anyone know a source of VERY small 16+ GB USB memory keys in the GTA? >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> Colin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 14:49:33 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 10:49:33 -0400 Subject: Where to find physically small USB memory keys. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120801144933.GY19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 07:53:14AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I've been playing around with an embedded style controller project, > which I have working more-or-less the way I want, but because of the > USB memory key is larger than I would like. > > Scott Sullivan has pointed me at a source of very small USB memory > keys, but from a firm that only seems to do mail (web?) order in > Canada, an issue as I would like to show this off early next week to > some co-workers. > > So, does anyone know a source of VERY small 16+ GB USB memory keys in the GTA? How small? I picked up a couple of these for use in the car: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=11_180_632&item_id=050116 I like them. Cheap, quite fast, very small. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 14:52:14 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 10:52:14 -0400 Subject: Where to find physically small USB memory keys. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120801145214.GZ19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 10:14:37AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Ideally this small or smaller : > http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211545 SD tends to make things slow. Although I think the one I linked to is actually about that size. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 14:57:44 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 10:57:44 -0400 Subject: Where to find physically small USB memory keys. In-Reply-To: <20120801145214.GZ19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120801145214.GZ19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120801145744.GA28063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 10:52:14AM -0400, wrote: > SD tends to make things slow. Although I think the one I linked to is > actually about that size. Of course for really small: http://www.memorydepot.com/details.asp?id=NANOUSB-16G I think that might be a canadian website. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chislon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 15:47:15 2012 From: chislon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Chow, Chislon) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 11:47:15 -0400 Subject: Where to find physically small USB memory keys. In-Reply-To: <20120801145744.GA28063-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120801145214.GZ19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120801145744.GA28063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I've had good experience shopping with ca.buy.com: Kingston DataTraveler Micro 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive $11.99 each http://ca.buy.com/PR/Product.aspx?sku=230610364 Free ship if you buy 3 Supposed to ship in 1 to 2 business days On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 10:52:14AM -0400, wrote: >> SD tends to make things slow. Although I think the one I linked to is >> actually about that size. > > Of course for really small: > > http://www.memorydepot.com/details.asp?id=NANOUSB-16G > > I think that might be a canadian website. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 16:24:27 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 12:24:27 -0400 Subject: Where to find physically small USB memory keys. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > I've been playing around with an embedded style controller project, > which I have working more-or-less the way I want, but because of the > USB memory key is larger than I would like. > > Scott Sullivan has pointed me at a source of very small USB memory > keys, but from a firm that only seems to do mail (web?) order in > Canada, an issue as I would like to show this off early next week to > some co-workers. > > So, does anyone know a source of VERY small 16+ GB USB memory keys in the GTA? Well, I used to be a fan of the "Kingmax" keys. http://www.kingmax.com/en-global/product/product/Model/Super_Stick_mini The Kingston DataTraveller is very slightly longer than the Kingmax ones, but seems more suitable to keychain usage: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=11_180_632&item_id=045155 For Really Small, see the DataTraveller Micro: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=11_180_632&item_id=33903R They don't seem to have those in stock; you'd have to get them shipped. But there are doubtless other vendors around with DataTraveller Micro. http://www.shopbot.ca/pp-kingston-datatraveler-micro-16gb-kingston-price-357560.html -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 16:41:36 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 12:41:36 -0400 Subject: Where to find physically small USB memory keys. In-Reply-To: References: <20120801145214.GZ19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120801145744.GA28063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Okay, the Kingston DataTraveler Micro looks about the size I want (well, a little smaller would be nice :-) ), next question, does anyone know a local store that has it in stock? Thanks. Colin. On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Chow, Chislon wrote: > I've had good experience shopping with ca.buy.com: > > Kingston DataTraveler Micro 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive > $11.99 each > http://ca.buy.com/PR/Product.aspx?sku=230610364 > > Free ship if you buy 3 > > Supposed to ship in 1 to 2 business days > > On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 10:52:14AM -0400, wrote: >>> SD tends to make things slow. Although I think the one I linked to is >>> actually about that size. >> >> Of course for really small: >> >> http://www.memorydepot.com/details.asp?id=NANOUSB-16G >> >> I think that might be a canadian website. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 17:06:28 2012 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 13:06:28 -0400 Subject: Wifi-enabled SD Cards Message-ID: Hi all, Now that my Raspberry Pi order has come in, I'm looking for a Canadian distributor for wifi-enabled SD cards, or better, a Toronto retailer with some in-stock. After a bunch of googling, I haven't turned up much of anything though. I'm looking for something along the lines of a Flu-card[1], though not specifically designed for cameras. (It's interesting to note that this card apparently runs Linux and provides a webserver.) The Eye-Fi is definitely out. Although they do have an inexpensive version (~ $30USD IIRC), according to wikipedia[2] all data and at least some private network info is forwarded to the company... ostensibly to enable cloud features. My use case is to run nightly builds of Pine[3] and run some automated tests on a Raspberry Pi. I don't really cherish the thought of having to manually change and reboot the unit daily. A wired variant (say USB), would be acceptable, but my initial searches didn't turn up anything useful. I'd also be interested in hearing thoughts and/or impressions from anyone that may have used a card like these. Best regards, - Scott. [1] [2] [3] -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 17:44:23 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 13:44:23 -0400 Subject: Wifi-enabled SD Cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1 August 2012 13:06, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Now that my Raspberry Pi order has come in, I'm looking for a Canadian > distributor for wifi-enabled SD cards, or better, a Toronto retailer > with some in-stock. After a bunch of googling, I haven't turned up > much of anything though. > > I'm looking for something along the lines of a Flu-card[1], though not > specifically designed for cameras. (It's interesting to note that > this card apparently runs Linux and provides a webserver.) > > The Eye-Fi is definitely out. Although they do have an inexpensive > version (~ $30USD IIRC), according to wikipedia[2] all data and at > least some private network info is forwarded to the company... > ostensibly to enable cloud features. > > My use case is to run nightly builds of Pine[3] and run some automated > tests on a Raspberry Pi. I don't really cherish the thought of having > to manually change and reboot the unit daily. A wired variant (say > USB), would be acceptable, but my initial searches didn't turn up > anything useful. > > I'd also be interested in hearing thoughts and/or impressions from > anyone that may have used a card like these. > > [1] > [2] > [3] A couple questions: 1) did you get a Model A Raspberry Pi (ie. without ethernet)? 2) wouldn't the more obvious option be ethernet-over-USB through a USB hub (or not)? Ethernet-over-USB seems easier and better supported by Linux (although I realize that it may not suit your situation). -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 17:59:36 2012 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 13:59:36 -0400 Subject: Wifi-enabled SD Cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > A couple questions: > 1) did you get a Model A Raspberry Pi (ie. without ethernet)? > 2) wouldn't the more obvious option be ethernet-over-USB through a USB > hub (or not)? > > Ethernet-over-USB seems easier and better supported by Linux (although > I realize that it may not suit your situation). These are model B's so they have ethernet. Currently Pine uses a Raspbian image (with some shell scripts that modify the default setup) but the goal is to roll a distribution specific to the project. My understanding is that the Pi will only boot from an SD card. What I'd like to do is trick it into thinking it has an SD card but have the disk's image on the dev machine. -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 18:12:56 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 14:12:56 -0400 Subject: Wifi-enabled SD Cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120801181256.GA19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 01:59:36PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > These are model B's so they have ethernet. Currently Pine uses a > Raspbian image (with some shell scripts that modify the default setup) > but the goal is to roll a distribution specific to the project. > > My understanding is that the Pi will only boot from an SD card. What > I'd like to do is trick it into thinking it has an SD card but have > the disk's image on the dev machine. Couldn't it just use NFS mount and have just the kernel on SD? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 18:13:52 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 14:13:52 -0400 Subject: Where to find physically small USB memory keys. In-Reply-To: References: <20120801145214.GZ19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120801145744.GA28063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120801181352.GB19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 11:47:15AM -0400, Chow, Chislon wrote: > I've had good experience shopping with ca.buy.com: > > Kingston DataTraveler Micro 16GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive > $11.99 each > http://ca.buy.com/PR/Product.aspx?sku=230610364 > > Free ship if you buy 3 > > Supposed to ship in 1 to 2 business days That looks nice. Not bad price either. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 18:18:39 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 14:18:39 -0400 Subject: Where to find physically small USB memory keys. In-Reply-To: References: <20120801145214.GZ19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120801145744.GA28063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120801181839.GC19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 12:41:36PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Okay, the Kingston DataTraveler Micro looks about the size I want > (well, a little smaller would be nice :-) ), next question, does > anyone know a local store that has it in stock? http://www.pc-canada.com/item/DTMCK%2F16GB.html?utm_source=shopbot&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopbot Does mississauga count as local store? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 1 18:25:09 2012 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 14:25:09 -0400 Subject: Wifi-enabled SD Cards In-Reply-To: <20120801181256.GA19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120801181256.GA19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 01:59:36PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> These are model B's so they have ethernet. Currently Pine uses a >> Raspbian image (with some shell scripts that modify the default setup) >> but the goal is to roll a distribution specific to the project. >> >> My understanding is that the Pi will only boot from an SD card. What >> I'd like to do is trick it into thinking it has an SD card but have >> the disk's image on the dev machine. > > Couldn't it just use NFS mount and have just the kernel on SD? Looks like that might be the way to go: I'll try to hook it up on the weekend and see how it turns out. Thanks Len! -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 2 13:13:24 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 09:13:24 -0400 Subject: kernel module for armel Message-ID: As mentioned at Ian Darwin's presentation, I have a Rikomagic(?) mk802 "Mini Android 4.0 Computer" (what's in quotes is ALL the information you get on the box). I've added a somewhat rambling page about it on my website if anyone is interested: http://www.gilesorr.com/misc/mk802.html . I'm not really recommending the page, but I know there was some interest in the device. I've got the Lubuntu armel distro ( http://rikomagic.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90 Ubuntu precise 12.04 ) working reasonably well on the mk802. But not all kernel modules are included. # uname -a Linux miniand 3.0.36-t1+ #14 PREEMPT Tue Jul 3 12:27:08 EST 2012 armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux I found a file in the distro, /lib/modules/3.0.36-t1+/modules.builtin , which I assume is the list of compiled-in modules? I have a - admittedly very old - Linksys USB100TX usb-to-ethernet adapter I've used successfully on a couple other distros. It's supported by the paradise.ko module, but that module isn't in the builtin list, or among the available modules. Is there a simple way to compile just the one module - or better yet, simply download it? I would also be willing to buy a newer (preferably cheap) usb-to-ethernet if there's a good reason to do so. I'd prefer to have this device running over a wire rather than on wireless. As a matter of personal interest: comments online suggest that the Allwinner A10 chip in this device would run armhf fine, but most of the distros for this device are based on armel, and that armhf would run faster. Is this true, and if so, why are the distros based on armel? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 2 15:29:22 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 11:29:22 -0400 Subject: kernel module for armel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120802152922.GD19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 02, 2012 at 09:13:24AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > As mentioned at Ian Darwin's presentation, I have a Rikomagic(?) mk802 > "Mini Android 4.0 Computer" (what's in quotes is ALL the information > you get on the box). I've added a somewhat rambling page about it on > my website if anyone is interested: > http://www.gilesorr.com/misc/mk802.html . I'm not really recommending > the page, but I know there was some interest in the device. > > I've got the Lubuntu armel distro ( > http://rikomagic.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90 Ubuntu precise > 12.04 ) working reasonably well on the mk802. But not all kernel > modules are included. > > # uname -a > Linux miniand 3.0.36-t1+ #14 PREEMPT Tue Jul 3 12:27:08 EST 2012 > armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux > > I found a file in the distro, /lib/modules/3.0.36-t1+/modules.builtin > , which I assume is the list of compiled-in modules? I have a - > admittedly very old - Linksys USB100TX usb-to-ethernet adapter I've > used successfully on a couple other distros. It's supported by the > paradise.ko module, but that module isn't in the builtin list, or > among the available modules. Is there a simple way to compile just > the one module - or better yet, simply download it? > > I would also be willing to buy a newer (preferably cheap) > usb-to-ethernet if there's a good reason to do so. I'd prefer to have > this device running over a wire rather than on wireless. > > As a matter of personal interest: comments online suggest that the > Allwinner A10 chip in this device would run armhf fine, but most of > the distros for this device are based on armel, and that armhf would > run faster. Is this true, and if so, why are the distros based on > armel? Because armhf is a rather new idea. Only a few years ago it was very common for arm processors to not have FPUs. Now because of all the multimedia video playback being done by most devices, the FPU is almost always present, hence building a more efficient distribution to take advantage of that has become worthwhile. Also using thumb2 instruction set (which armv7 supports, but armv6 does not), gives some code size (and hence cache usage) benefits without hurting performance (unlike thumb1). So armhf for armv7 with FPU makes sense. armv6 (which is pretty rare) made less sense to bother for, which is why the pi is left a bit to itself. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 2 15:52:41 2012 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 11:52:41 -0400 Subject: kernel module for armel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <501AA249.7040505@ss.org> On 08/02/2012 09:13 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > As a matter of personal interest: comments online suggest that the > Allwinner A10 chip in this device would run armhf fine, but most of > the distros for this device are based on armel, and that armhf would > run faster. Is this true, and if so, why are the distros based on > armel? > The dev's assosiated with Rhombus tech have nightly built "hardware packs" with uboot and kernel images for the MK802. http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/nightly_build_images/ Combine this with a Debian armhf rootfs image. I'm starting to feel like an ARM install-fest would be a great meet-up idea. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 15:41:22 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 08:41:22 -0700 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? Message-ID: Hey LUG'ers, I've currently got an Asus laptop. Beautiful power with a Core i7, 8GB of RAM, etc. However, I've been doing a lot of dev work lately, and the one falling point I've run into is that 1366x768 isn't a lot of real-estate screen-size I started looking at what's available for larger screens, and noticed this little guy with a 1920x1200 native LCD resolution. http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200599&Tpk=M6300 Obviously it's a bit older and the Core2 probably isn't going to keep up with my i7, but according to here the Linux compatibility is good: http://www.linlap.com/wiki/dell+precision+m6300 Anyone have one of these and/or know how well it performs on a recent linux distro? At $267 the price is quite nice... -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA "Computers don't make mistakes. They can, however, execute those provided to them very quickly" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 15:49:11 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 11:49:11 -0400 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120803154911.GE19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 08:41:22AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hey LUG'ers, > > I've currently got an Asus laptop. Beautiful power with a Core i7, 8GB > of RAM, etc. > > However, I've been doing a lot of dev work lately, and the one falling > point I've run into is that 1366x768 isn't a lot of real-estate > screen-size > > I started looking at what's available for larger screens, and noticed > this little guy with a 1920x1200 native LCD resolution. > > http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200599&Tpk=M6300 > > Obviously it's a bit older and the Core2 probably isn't going to keep > up with my i7, but according to here the Linux compatibility is good: > http://www.linlap.com/wiki/dell+precision+m6300 > > Anyone have one of these and/or know how well it performs on a recent > linux distro? At $267 the price is quite nice... The specs are not bad, screen seems nice. Of course it is a Dell laptop and those don't exactly have a reputation of being reliable (and the reputation is well deserved). But it is pretty cheap. RAM and HD is rather puny. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 16:00:36 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 12:00:36 -0400 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: <20120803154911.GE19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120803154911.GE19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <501BF5A4.2090108@alteeve.ca> On 08/03/2012 11:49 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 08:41:22AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Hey LUG'ers, >> >> I've currently got an Asus laptop. Beautiful power with a Core i7, 8GB >> of RAM, etc. >> >> However, I've been doing a lot of dev work lately, and the one falling >> point I've run into is that 1366x768 isn't a lot of real-estate >> screen-size >> >> I started looking at what's available for larger screens, and noticed >> this little guy with a 1920x1200 native LCD resolution. >> >> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200599&Tpk=M6300 >> >> Obviously it's a bit older and the Core2 probably isn't going to keep >> up with my i7, but according to here the Linux compatibility is good: >> http://www.linlap.com/wiki/dell+precision+m6300 >> >> Anyone have one of these and/or know how well it performs on a recent >> linux distro? At $267 the price is quite nice... > > The specs are not bad, screen seems nice. Of course it is a Dell laptop > and those don't exactly have a reputation of being reliable (and the > reputation is well deserved). > > But it is pretty cheap. > > RAM and HD is rather puny. DDR2 is going to be hard/expensive to find. It's nowhere near the price point, but if you're looking for more power, I've been rediculously happy with my Thinkpad W530. The new keyboard layout bugs me, but that's because I'm a traditionalist. They keys themselves are very responsive and have awesome feedback. The screen is a dream, too. I opted for the 1920x1080 screen. It's upgradeable to 32GB and supports the i7 quad core. I swapped out the HDD for an SSD after receiving it (their prices was unreasonable to do it at build time). Anyway, an option. As for Dell quality; I have to echo Lennart. My experience is very poor with Dell as a former support tech. I hated working on them. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 16:13:16 2012 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 09:13:16 -0700 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: <501BF5A4.2090108-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120803154911.GE19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <501BF5A4.2090108@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Digimer wrote: > On 08/03/2012 11:49 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 08:41:22AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: >>> >>> Hey LUG'ers, >>> >>> I've currently got an Asus laptop. Beautiful power with a Core i7, 8GB >>> of RAM, etc. >>> >>> However, I've been doing a lot of dev work lately, and the one falling >>> point I've run into is that 1366x768 isn't a lot of real-estate >>> screen-size >>> >>> I started looking at what's available for larger screens, and noticed >>> this little guy with a 1920x1200 native LCD resolution. >>> >>> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200599&Tpk=M6300 >>> >>> Obviously it's a bit older and the Core2 probably isn't going to keep >>> up with my i7, but according to here the Linux compatibility is good: >>> http://www.linlap.com/wiki/dell+precision+m6300 >>> >>> Anyone have one of these and/or know how well it performs on a recent >>> linux distro? At $267 the price is quite nice... >> >> >> The specs are not bad, screen seems nice. Of course it is a Dell laptop >> and those don't exactly have a reputation of being reliable (and the >> reputation is well deserved). >> >> But it is pretty cheap. >> >> RAM and HD is rather puny. > > > DDR2 is going to be hard/expensive to find. > > It's nowhere near the price point, but if you're looking for more power, > I've been rediculously happy with my Thinkpad W530. The new keyboard layout > bugs me, but that's because I'm a traditionalist. They keys themselves are > very responsive and have awesome feedback. The screen is a dream, too. I > opted for the 1920x1080 screen. It's upgradeable to 32GB and supports the i7 > quad core. I swapped out the HDD for an SSD after receiving it (their prices > was unreasonable to do it at build time). > > Anyway, an option. As for Dell quality; I have to echo Lennart. My > experience is very poor with Dell as a former support tech. I hated working > on them. I own one of those. Beautiful machine. Get the idiot insurance if it's available. The video card in mine died and it was going to be ~$400 for a new one. It seems to be a custom build for the laptop and you can't get it anywhere but Dell. Dell treats you pretty well, in my experience, once you've paid for the extended warranty. Rather than spend $400 on a new video card for an aging machine I decided to spend ~$800 on a whole new machine. Can't remember all the specs right now, but it's an Acer (I think) with an 18.4" 1920x1080 monitor and newer parts all around. It's nice, for what it is, but I *really* miss the 10% more vertical pixels on my old Dell. 1920x1200 monitors on laptops are hard to find but really awesome to have. I ran Gentoo on it when I bought it for ~$5,000 and it performed quite well but I don't really remember how well--it's been a while since it died. I do remember it stood up OK to running Eclipse, PostgreSQL, Apache, and JBoss all at the same time (it was my luggable dev box). I probably upgraded the RAM, though. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 16:21:12 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 09:21:12 -0700 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: <501BF5A4.2090108-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120803154911.GE19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <501BF5A4.2090108@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: DDR2 desktop RAM is a bit of a PITA to get at a good price. SOdimms are easier for some reason. For myself, I have a 2GB sodimm leftover from my old HP On Aug 3, 2012 9:03 AM, "Digimer" wrote: > On 08/03/2012 11:49 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 08:41:22AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >>> Hey LUG'ers, >>> >>> I've currently got an Asus laptop. Beautiful power with a Core i7, 8GB >>> of RAM, etc. >>> >>> However, I've been doing a lot of dev work lately, and the one falling >>> point I've run into is that 1366x768 isn't a lot of real-estate >>> screen-size >>> >>> I started looking at what's available for larger screens, and noticed >>> this little guy with a 1920x1200 native LCD resolution. >>> >>> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/**Product.aspx?Item=** >>> N82E16834200599&Tpk=M6300 >>> >>> Obviously it's a bit older and the Core2 probably isn't going to keep >>> up with my i7, but according to here the Linux compatibility is good: >>> http://www.linlap.com/wiki/**dell+precision+m6300 >>> >>> Anyone have one of these and/or know how well it performs on a recent >>> linux distro? At $267 the price is quite nice... >>> >> >> The specs are not bad, screen seems nice. Of course it is a Dell laptop >> and those don't exactly have a reputation of being reliable (and the >> reputation is well deserved). >> >> But it is pretty cheap. >> >> RAM and HD is rather puny. >> > > DDR2 is going to be hard/expensive to find. > > It's nowhere near the price point, but if you're looking for more power, > I've been rediculously happy with my Thinkpad W530. The new keyboard layout > bugs me, but that's because I'm a traditionalist. They keys themselves are > very responsive and have awesome feedback. The screen is a dream, too. I > opted for the 1920x1080 screen. It's upgradeable to 32GB and supports the > i7 quad core. I swapped out the HDD for an SSD after receiving it (their > prices was unreasonable to do it at build time). > > Anyway, an option. As for Dell quality; I have to echo Lennart. My > experience is very poor with Dell as a former support tech. I hated working > on them. > > -- > Digimer > Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 16:36:22 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 12:36:22 -0400 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: <501BF5A4.2090108-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120803154911.GE19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <501BF5A4.2090108@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <20120803163622.GF19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 12:00:36PM -0400, Digimer wrote: > DDR2 is going to be hard/expensive to find. > > It's nowhere near the price point, but if you're looking for more > power, I've been rediculously happy with my Thinkpad W530. The new > keyboard layout bugs me, but that's because I'm a traditionalist. > They keys themselves are very responsive and have awesome feedback. > The screen is a dream, too. I opted for the 1920x1080 screen. It's > upgradeable to 32GB and supports the i7 quad core. I swapped out the > HDD for an SSD after receiving it (their prices was unreasonable to > do it at build time). What specificly is wrong with the W530 keyboard? I have never seen one. > Anyway, an option. As for Dell quality; I have to echo Lennart. My > experience is very poor with Dell as a former support tech. I hated > working on them. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 16:47:43 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 12:47:43 -0400 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: <20120803163622.GF19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120803154911.GE19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <501BF5A4.2090108@alteeve.ca> <20120803163622.GF19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <501C00AF.40808@alteeve.ca> On 08/03/2012 12:36 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 12:00:36PM -0400, Digimer wrote: >> DDR2 is going to be hard/expensive to find. >> >> It's nowhere near the price point, but if you're looking for more >> power, I've been rediculously happy with my Thinkpad W530. The new >> keyboard layout bugs me, but that's because I'm a traditionalist. >> They keys themselves are very responsive and have awesome feedback. >> The screen is a dream, too. I opted for the 1920x1080 screen. It's >> upgradeable to 32GB and supports the i7 quad core. I swapped out the >> HDD for an SSD after receiving it (their prices was unreasonable to >> do it at build time). > > What specificly is wrong with the W530 keyboard? I have never seen one. > >> Anyway, an option. As for Dell quality; I have to echo Lennart. My >> experience is very poor with Dell as a former support tech. I hated >> working on them. Until this generation, the Thinkpads still had a mostly traditional 104-key keyboard layout, except that the insert key was moved to the left to make the del key double-height. The pg up/pg down, home/end and other keys were all in the usual 2x3 grid at the top-right of the keyboard. While every other OEM was moving to the macbook style "chicklet" keys, Thinkpad stayed traditional. So when the current xn30 line came out, like the T430 and W530, they mentioned they were changing to the chicklet-style keys as well. I was extremely concerned because the keyboard was always one of the biggest selling features of the thinkpads, to me. Every macbook (or similar key style) keyboard I have used sucked. I decided to give it a try anyway, after reading about the insane R&D they put into the new-style keyboard. The tactile feedback from the keys is amazing! I was very surprised at how nice it feels. I do still miss the traditional layout though... The 2x3 layout is now, in order, home - end - insert - delete on the top-right row and pgup and pgdown are directly above the left and right arrow keys, respectively. I got used to this pretty quickly, but I do still find myself hitting backspace when I want delete, and vice-versa. I'd still prefer the old layout, but it's not the show-stopper I had worried about. Something long-time thinkpad users and new converts might like; The Fn and l-ctrl keys have always been left/right, where almost all other laptops have l-ctrl on the left and Fn to it's right. Now you can swap the keys in the BIOS. I'm used to it, as I've used Thinkpads for >10 years, but it was something I had wanted back when I first started with them. As for the rest of the laptop... I could still fend off a small army with this thing. It runs very cool, even under load. It's missing eSATA, which is sad, but I suspect that's a gamble on USB3 taking over. Lastly; Fedora 17 "just works", save the fingerprint reader. Do note that I immediately disabled the nvidia gpu, as I prefer battery > graphics. That said, Gnome3 runs brilliantly on the Intel GPU. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 17:33:25 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 13:33:25 -0400 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: <501C00AF.40808-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20120803154911.GE19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <501BF5A4.2090108@alteeve.ca> <20120803163622.GF19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <501C00AF.40808@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: <20120803173325.GG19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 12:47:43PM -0400, Digimer wrote: > Until this generation, the Thinkpads still had a mostly traditional > 104-key keyboard layout, except that the insert key was moved to the > left to make the del key double-height. The pg up/pg down, home/end > and other keys were all in the usual 2x3 grid at the top-right of > the keyboard. While every other OEM was moving to the macbook style > "chicklet" keys, Thinkpad stayed traditional. > > So when the current xn30 line came out, like the T430 and W530, they > mentioned they were changing to the chicklet-style keys as well. I > was extremely concerned because the keyboard was always one of the > biggest selling features of the thinkpads, to me. Every macbook (or > similar key style) keyboard I have used sucked. > > I decided to give it a try anyway, after reading about the insane > R&D they put into the new-style keyboard. The tactile feedback from > the keys is amazing! I was very surprised at how nice it feels. > > I do still miss the traditional layout though... The 2x3 layout is > now, in order, home - end - insert - delete on the top-right row and > pgup and pgdown are directly above the left and right arrow keys, > respectively. I got used to this pretty quickly, but I do still find > myself hitting backspace when I want delete, and vice-versa. I'd > still prefer the old layout, but it's not the show-stopper I had > worried about. Well my thinkpad (an SL500) doesn't have that particular layout that you apparently like. I have pageup and page down to the left and right of the cursor up key. To me that is way more useful than the back and forward button that many other thinkpads seem to have. home/end/delete/insert are in a line at the top right in a bit of an odd layout, but I guess I have gotten used to them by now. I don't use them that often anyhow. My wife's ideapad has the chicklet keyboard. Originally it was french canadian, but it has been swapped for a US layout after a cat broke the spacebar. > Something long-time thinkpad users and new converts might like; The > Fn and l-ctrl keys have always been left/right, where almost all > other laptops have l-ctrl on the left and Fn to it's right. Now you > can swap the keys in the BIOS. I'm used to it, as I've used > Thinkpads for >10 years, but it was something I had wanted back when > I first started with them. Actually the location of fn and l-ctrl has swapped on thinkpads over time, although they did add that bios option. > As for the rest of the laptop... I could still fend off a small army > with this thing. It runs very cool, even under load. It's missing > eSATA, which is sad, but I suspect that's a gamble on USB3 taking > over. > > Lastly; Fedora 17 "just works", save the fingerprint reader. Do note > that I immediately disabled the nvidia gpu, as I prefer battery > > graphics. That said, Gnome3 runs brilliantly on the Intel GPU. Yeah the fingerprint scanner takes a bit of work to get going although it is supposed to be possible. I can't be bothered. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 3 17:52:03 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:52:03 -0400 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: <20120803173325.GG19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120803154911.GE19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <501BF5A4.2090108@alteeve.ca> <20120803163622.GF19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <501C00AF.40808@alteeve.ca> <20120803173325.GG19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <501C0FC3.3050303@alteeve.ca> On 08/03/2012 01:33 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 12:47:43PM -0400, Digimer wrote: >> Until this generation, the Thinkpads still had a mostly traditional >> 104-key keyboard layout, except that the insert key was moved to the >> left to make the del key double-height. The pg up/pg down, home/end >> and other keys were all in the usual 2x3 grid at the top-right of >> the keyboard. While every other OEM was moving to the macbook style >> "chicklet" keys, Thinkpad stayed traditional. >> >> So when the current xn30 line came out, like the T430 and W530, they >> mentioned they were changing to the chicklet-style keys as well. I >> was extremely concerned because the keyboard was always one of the >> biggest selling features of the thinkpads, to me. Every macbook (or >> similar key style) keyboard I have used sucked. >> >> I decided to give it a try anyway, after reading about the insane >> R&D they put into the new-style keyboard. The tactile feedback from >> the keys is amazing! I was very surprised at how nice it feels. >> >> I do still miss the traditional layout though... The 2x3 layout is >> now, in order, home - end - insert - delete on the top-right row and >> pgup and pgdown are directly above the left and right arrow keys, >> respectively. I got used to this pretty quickly, but I do still find >> myself hitting backspace when I want delete, and vice-versa. I'd >> still prefer the old layout, but it's not the show-stopper I had >> worried about. > > Well my thinkpad (an SL500) doesn't have that particular layout that > you apparently like. I have pageup and page down to the left and right > of the cursor up key. To me that is way more useful than the back and > forward button that many other thinkpads seem to have. > > home/end/delete/insert are in a line at the top right in a bit of an odd > layout, but I guess I have gotten used to them by now. I don't use them > that often anyhow. > > My wife's ideapad has the chicklet keyboard. Originally it was french > canadian, but it has been swapped for a US layout after a cat broke > the spacebar. > >> Something long-time thinkpad users and new converts might like; The >> Fn and l-ctrl keys have always been left/right, where almost all >> other laptops have l-ctrl on the left and Fn to it's right. Now you >> can swap the keys in the BIOS. I'm used to it, as I've used >> Thinkpads for >10 years, but it was something I had wanted back when >> I first started with them. > > Actually the location of fn and l-ctrl has swapped on thinkpads over time, > although they did add that bios option. > >> As for the rest of the laptop... I could still fend off a small army >> with this thing. It runs very cool, even under load. It's missing >> eSATA, which is sad, but I suspect that's a gamble on USB3 taking >> over. >> >> Lastly; Fedora 17 "just works", save the fingerprint reader. Do note >> that I immediately disabled the nvidia gpu, as I prefer battery > >> graphics. That said, Gnome3 runs brilliantly on the Intel GPU. > > Yeah the fingerprint scanner takes a bit of work to get going although > it is supposed to be possible. I can't be bothered. Ah, sorry. I should have clarified that when I say "Thinkpad", I'm referring to the models that are direct descendants on the IBM lines; T-series and W-Series specifically. As for the fingerprint reader; I took a quick look and the USB device is seen, but fprintd-enroll doesn't recognize it. I figured it's a udev rule away from fixing, but it's just not made it up my priority stack, despite enjoying it on my T400s. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 06:29:00 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 02:29:00 -0400 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Its a refurb steal! $200 cheaper than what paid for Compaq cq50 1.9 ghz dual core 1280 X 800 15.6 display in 2008. On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hey LUG'ers, > > > > I've currently got an Asus laptop. Beautiful power with a Core i7, 8GB > of RAM, etc. > > However, I've been doing a lot of dev work lately, and the one falling > point I've run into is that 1366x768 isn't a lot of real-estate > screen-size > > I started looking at what's available for larger screens, and noticed > this little guy with a 1920x1200 native LCD resolution. > > http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200599&Tpk=M6300 > > > Obviously it's a bit older and the Core2 probably isn't going to keep > up with my i7, but according to here the Linux compatibility is good: > http://www.linlap.com/wiki/dell+precision+m6300 > > > Anyone have one of these and/or know how well it performs on a recent > linux distro? At $267 the price is quite nice... > > > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA > > "Computers don't make mistakes. They can, however, execute those > provided to them very quickly" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 06:51:16 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 23:51:16 -0700 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My main concern was whether the old GPU will work on newer distro's/kernels (with the nvidia driver) On Aug 4, 2012 11:29 PM, "charles chris" wrote: > Its a refurb steal! $200 cheaper than what paid for Compaq cq50 1.9 ghz > dual core 1280 X 800 15.6 display in 2008. > > On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> Hey LUG'ers, >> >> >> >> I've currently got an Asus laptop. Beautiful power with a Core i7, 8GB >> of RAM, etc. >> >> However, I've been doing a lot of dev work lately, and the one falling >> point I've run into is that 1366x768 isn't a lot of real-estate >> screen-size >> >> I started looking at what's available for larger screens, and noticed >> this little guy with a 1920x1200 native LCD resolution. >> >> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200599&Tpk=M6300 >> >> >> Obviously it's a bit older and the Core2 probably isn't going to keep >> up with my i7, but according to here the Linux compatibility is good: >> http://www.linlap.com/wiki/dell+precision+m6300 >> >> >> Anyone have one of these and/or know how well it performs on a recent >> linux distro? At $267 the price is quite nice... >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tyler Aviss >> Systems Support >> LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA >> >> "Computers don't make mistakes. They can, however, execute those >> provided to them very quickly" >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > http://drpcdr.ca > http://jobcircle.ca > 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 12:52:12 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 08:52:12 -0400 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Almost all software is backward compatible. Some manufactures may be slow or may never provide drivers for the new OS, especially where older hardware is concerned. I remember many older printers did not have compatible drivers for Windows 7. However, most times a new OS will detect and install older device drivers automatically. On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 2:51 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > My main concern was whether the old GPU will work on newer > distro's/kernels (with the nvidia driver) > On Aug 4, 2012 11:29 PM, "charles chris" wrote: > >> Its a refurb steal! $200 cheaper than what paid for Compaq cq50 1.9 ghz >> dual core 1280 X 800 15.6 display in 2008. >> >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >>> Hey LUG'ers, >>> >>> >>> >>> I've currently got an Asus laptop. Beautiful power with a Core i7, 8GB >>> of RAM, etc. >>> >>> However, I've been doing a lot of dev work lately, and the one falling >>> point I've run into is that 1366x768 isn't a lot of real-estate >>> screen-size >>> >>> I started looking at what's available for larger screens, and noticed >>> this little guy with a 1920x1200 native LCD resolution. >>> >>> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200599&Tpk=M6300 >>> >>> >>> Obviously it's a bit older and the Core2 probably isn't going to keep >>> up with my i7, but according to here the Linux compatibility is good: >>> http://www.linlap.com/wiki/dell+precision+m6300 >>> >>> >>> Anyone have one of these and/or know how well it performs on a recent >>> linux distro? At $267 the price is quite nice... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tyler Aviss >>> Systems Support >>> LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA >>> >>> "Computers don't make mistakes. They can, however, execute those >>> provided to them very quickly" >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://drpcdr.ca >> http://jobcircle.ca >> 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 >> >> -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 14:37:22 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 10:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: charles chris [I've tried to undo some of the top-posting in this thread.] | >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: | >>> I started looking at what's available for larger screens, and noticed | >>> this little guy with a 1920x1200 native LCD resolution. | >>> | >>> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200599&Tpk=M6300 Wow. That's quite the notebook for the price. It costs less than almost any new monitor with that resolution (there are few monitors left at that resolution). I wonder if the screen is IPS ("LCD Features: Ultra Sharp"). This doesn't say: These folks don't seem to be excited (at a higher price point): The M6300 was announced in 2007 September so it is getting old. And I bet these refurbs have been used a lot of the time since then. A bit scary. | On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 2:51 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: | | > My main concern was whether the old GPU will work on newer | > distro's/kernels (with the nvidia driver) I imagine that googling would get you the answer but I haven't tried. Guessing is a bit risky. [back to Charles] | Almost all software is backward compatible. Some manufactures may be slow | or may never provide drivers for the new OS, especially where older | hardware is concerned. Linux is different. The kernel is constantly changing its internal interfaces. It's a hell of a ride for those trying to maintain binary-only video drivers. In fact, they often lag. And when they drop older hardware, it drops with a thud. The open source video drivers are mostly fine, and getting better all the time. But they often don't have great game or multimedia performance. And they sometimes have nits due to the difficulties of reverse engineering. | However, most times a new OS will detect and install older device drivers | automatically. That's not the Linux way. There is no provision for running older drivers. On balance, this is a Good Thing, but the shoe pinches in the video card area. In-tree drivers (i.e. open source drivers that have been accepted by Linus) are maintained very well until lack of interest kills them. Out-of-tree open source drivers are often OK but are (1) usually lower quality (2) may not be part of your distro (3) often get abandoned The neat thing about open source is that you have the power to fix these deficiencies. Binary drivers are to be avoided if possible. When they break, you are out of luck. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 15:08:47 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 08:08:47 -0700 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 5, 2012 7:38 AM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > > | From: charles chris > > [I've tried to undo some of the top-posting in this thread.] > > | >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > | >>> I started looking at what's available for larger screens, and noticed > | >>> this little guy with a 1920x1200 native LCD resolution. > | >>> > | >>> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200599&Tpk=M6300 > > Wow. That's quite the notebook for the price. It costs less than > almost any new monitor with that resolution (there are few monitors > left at that resolution). I wonder if the screen is IPS ("LCD > Features: Ultra Sharp"). This doesn't say: > < http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/wsm6300/en/UG/HTML/specs.htm#wp1085867 > > > These folks don't seem to be excited (at a higher price point): > < http://forum.notebookreview.com/dell-latitude-vostro-precision/674895-precision-m6300-refurbished-cheap-opinions-2.html > > > The M6300 was announced in 2007 September so it is getting old. And I bet > these refurbs have been used a lot of the time since then. A bit scary. > > | On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 2:51 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > | > | > My main concern was whether the old GPU will work on newer > | > distro's/kernels (with the nvidia driver) > > I imagine that googling would get you the answer but I haven't tried. > Guessing is a bit risky. > > [back to Charles] > | Almost all software is backward compatible. Some manufactures may be slow > | or may never provide drivers for the new OS, especially where older > | hardware is concerned. > > Linux is different. > > The kernel is constantly changing its internal interfaces. It's a > hell of a ride for those trying to maintain binary-only video drivers. > In fact, they often lag. And when they drop older hardware, it drops > with a thud. > > The open source video drivers are mostly fine, and getting better all > the time. But they often don't have great game or multimedia > performance. And they sometimes have nits due to the difficulties of > reverse engineering. > > | However, most times a new OS will detect and install older device drivers > | automatically. > > That's not the Linux way. There is no provision for running older > drivers. On balance, this is a Good Thing, but the shoe pinches in > the video card area. > > In-tree drivers (i.e. open source drivers that have been accepted by > Linus) are maintained very well until lack of interest kills them. > > Out-of-tree open source drivers are often OK but are > (1) usually lower quality > (2) may not be part of your distro > (3) often get abandoned > The neat thing about open source is that you have the power to fix > these deficiencies. > > Binary drivers are to be avoided if possible. When they break, you > are out of luck. Since I'm mainly looking at something for 3d graphics dev, having a binary accelerated driver that works with recent kernels/xorg is important. Sad that a 1997 laptop has better resolution than most newer laptops or even LCD's available today. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 15:09:34 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 08:09:34 -0700 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 5, 2012 8:08 AM, "Tyler Aviss" wrote: > > > On Aug 5, 2012 7:38 AM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > > > > | From: charles chris > > > > [I've tried to undo some of the top-posting in this thread.] > > > > | >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > > > | >>> I started looking at what's available for larger screens, and noticed > > | >>> this little guy with a 1920x1200 native LCD resolution. > > | >>> > > | >>> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200599&Tpk=M6300 > > > > Wow. That's quite the notebook for the price. It costs less than > > almost any new monitor with that resolution (there are few monitors > > left at that resolution). I wonder if the screen is IPS ("LCD > > Features: Ultra Sharp"). This doesn't say: > > < http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/wsm6300/en/UG/HTML/specs.htm#wp1085867 > > > > > These folks don't seem to be excited (at a higher price point): > > < http://forum.notebookreview.com/dell-latitude-vostro-precision/674895-precision-m6300-refurbished-cheap-opinions-2.html > > > > > The M6300 was announced in 2007 September so it is getting old. And I bet > > these refurbs have been used a lot of the time since then. A bit scary. > > > > | On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 2:51 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > | > > | > My main concern was whether the old GPU will work on newer > > | > distro's/kernels (with the nvidia driver) > > > > I imagine that googling would get you the answer but I haven't tried. > > Guessing is a bit risky. > > > > [back to Charles] > > | Almost all software is backward compatible. Some manufactures may be slow > > | or may never provide drivers for the new OS, especially where older > > | hardware is concerned. > > > > Linux is different. > > > > The kernel is constantly changing its internal interfaces. It's a > > hell of a ride for those trying to maintain binary-only video drivers. > > In fact, they often lag. And when they drop older hardware, it drops > > with a thud. > > > > The open source video drivers are mostly fine, and getting better all > > the time. But they often don't have great game or multimedia > > performance. And they sometimes have nits due to the difficulties of > > reverse engineering. > > > > | However, most times a new OS will detect and install older device drivers > > | automatically. > > > > That's not the Linux way. There is no provision for running older > > drivers. On balance, this is a Good Thing, but the shoe pinches in > > the video card area. > > > > In-tree drivers (i.e. open source drivers that have been accepted by > > Linus) are maintained very well until lack of interest kills them. > > > > Out-of-tree open source drivers are often OK but are > > (1) usually lower quality > > (2) may not be part of your distro > > (3) often get abandoned > > The neat thing about open source is that you have the power to fix > > these deficiencies. > > > > Binary drivers are to be avoided if possible. When they break, you > > are out of luck. > > Since I'm mainly looking at something for 3d graphics dev, having a binary accelerated driver that works with recent kernels/xorg is important. Sad that a 1997 laptop has better resolution than most newer laptops or even LCD's available today. Er, s/1997/2007/ > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 15:59:19 2012 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 11:59:19 -0400 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: References: <20120803154911.GE19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <501BF5A4.2090108@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: > I own one of those. Beautiful machine. I use one at work. In 2007 I started with an M90, same form factor and specs. We've had six Dell Mobile Precisions in my department (we call them CAD laptops), with a better-than-50% failure rate on the video card. When it died in my first M90, I switched to the spare and a Dell technician replaced the card in the first one. When it failed in the second M90, they told us the nVidia card was no longer available and replaced it with a whole new M6400. We purchased the M6300 in September 2008 and the latest M4600 (16GB RAM) about three months ago. In January last year, the replacement video card in the first M90 died and I switched to the M6300 as my desktop machine. The M6300 and M6400 are still running with their original nVidia cards; as if in anticipation of your question, the one in the three-month-old M4600 died and was replaced by Dell this past week. As for video drivers, I can't speak from experience because the machines have only run Linux as VMware or VirtualBox client, with XP as the host on all but the last one (Windows 7). My 2005 ThinkPad G41 has a 174-era nVidia card and had no issues with accelerated video using openSUSE 11.4's nouveau driver. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 17:51:38 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 13:51:38 -0400 Subject: Very OT: Who is behind vigilant citizen Message-ID: Hi, Happened to chat with someone today and at some point, the recent gun case at a movie theatre came up. I tried to explain that I believe it was just a case of someone frustrated by lack of a job and projecting his pain on society that he felt was not offering him a chance. However, according to her, its more complicated that that, apparently had to do with the movie industry involvement in dark religion and all that crap. So I asked her source and apparently its a website called vigilant citizen. This being the first time I heard of them, I was curious and checked it later. For me, it sound a tad off so I wanted to know who is behind it. http://vigilantcitizen.com/about/ Its a Canadian but he has done a good job of not revealing anything more than that. Anybody heard about him before? For example, I checked the owner of the domain and its hidden. Have not seen anybody who has written about his agenda but he seem to have a good number of followers. Anyway, I like the fact that Internet allow everyone to self publish, but some stuff are not too helpful. I do agree that, in general it if far more helpful than its downsides. Just wish people would be a little critical of what they read, both from mainstream media and small outlet there. William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 23:06:43 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: References: <20120803154911.GE19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <501BF5A4.2090108@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: | From: Ian Petersen | I own one of those. Beautiful machine. Get the idiot insurance if | it's available. The video card in mine died and it was going to be | ~$400 for a new one. It seems to be a custom build for the laptop and | you can't get it anywhere but Dell. Dell treats you pretty well, in | my experience, once you've paid for the extended warranty. | | Rather than spend $400 on a new video card for an aging machine I | decided to spend ~$800 on a whole new machine. I wonder if your problems are related to this: (certainly not the complete story.) nVidia mobile chips of a certain generation had a flaw. It could be ameliorated if they were kept cool, so the fix was to change BIOSes to run fans all the time -- ugh! I'm not sure which chips were affected but maybe yours was. says: In April 2009, a court consolidated multiple class action suits into one case, titled The Nvidia GPU Litigation.[20] Nvidia agreed to replace faulty chips in or reimburse purchasers who already spent to get their laptop repaired. Nvidia also gave replacement laptops to many users in lieu of making a repair. The replacements and payments were not made until the settlement was finalized in 2011. Users were required to show proof of purchase and mail in their original faulty laptop. The chips were present in a number of Dell and HP laptops, as well as two Apple MacBook Pro models. Although the settlement cost Nvidia millions of dollars, many of the individuals were unhappy with the settlement, and multiple websites and blogs reflected this. The website entitled Fair Nvidia Settlement [21] was one such site. Sounds a little whitewashed. For example, it doesn't mention the serious writedowns nVidia took. Some of the web sites have disappeared. Oh, here's a good one. Dell's "Chief Blogger": Summary: yes, M6300 is affected. In compensation, Dell extended the warranty for one year. Long over. I'd stay away from a M6300! | From: Michael Hill | I use one at work. In 2007 I started with an M90, same form factor and | specs. We've had six Dell Mobile Precisions in my department (we call | them CAD laptops), with a better-than-50% failure rate on the video | card. When it died in my first M90, I switched to the spare and a Dell | technician replaced the card in the first one. When it failed in the | second M90, they told us the nVidia card was no longer available and | replaced it with a whole new M6400. We purchased the M6300 in | September 2008 and the latest M4600 (16GB RAM) about three months ago. | In January last year, the replacement video card in the first M90 died | and I switched to the M6300 as my desktop machine. The M6300 and M6400 | are still running with their original nVidia cards; as if in | anticipation of your question, the one in the three-month-old M4600 | died and was replaced by Dell this past week. I wonder if your machines too were affected by this nVidia problem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 5 23:26:59 2012 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 19:26:59 -0400 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: References: <20120803154911.GE19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <501BF5A4.2090108@alteeve.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 7:06 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Michael Hill > | and I switched to the M6300 as my desktop machine. The M6300 and M6400 > | are still running with their original nVidia cards; as if in > | anticipation of your question, the one in the three-month-old M4600 > | died and was replaced by Dell this past week. > > I wonder if your machines too were affected by this nVidia problem. Hugh, I'd believe that if it hadn't happened to the new one this week; Dell/nVidia *have* to have figured out the problem in five years. Now I just suspect the fluorescent lighting or the network cable being connected through the phone. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 6 02:31:49 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 22:31:49 -0400 Subject: Very OT: Who is behind vigilant citizen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 1:51 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hi, > > Happened to chat with someone today and at some point, the recent gun > case at a movie theatre came up. I tried to explain that I believe it > was just a case of someone frustrated by lack of a job and projecting > his pain on society that he felt was not offering him a chance. > However, according to her, its more complicated that that, apparently > had to do with the movie industry involvement in dark religion and all > that crap. So I asked her source and apparently its a website called > vigilant citizen. > > This being the first time I heard of them, I was curious and checked > it later. For me, it sound a tad off so I wanted to know who is behind > it. > > http://vigilantcitizen.com/about/ > > Its a Canadian but he has done a good job of not revealing anything > more than that. Anybody heard about him before? For example, I > checked the owner of the domain and its hidden. Have not seen anybody > who has written about his agenda but he seem to have a good number of > followers. > > Anyway, I like the fact that Internet allow everyone to self publish, > but some stuff are not too helpful. I do agree that, in general it > if far more helpful than its downsides. Just wish people would be a > little critical of what they read, both from mainstream media and > small outlet there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you're_a_dog This guy would probably try to read some special semiotics into the choice of "dog" as symbol; that seems not uncommon amongst conspiracy theorists, who, instead of trying to cultivate "ceteris parabis" (the economist's attempt at independence of issues, "all other things being equal"), seem incapable of imagining that anything ever occurs without conscious purpose by the conspiracists. As Freud is thought to have said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." The author of that web site falls pretty quickly into fallacy... He points to the notion that Would-be Conspiracy Operators are keen on extreme degrees of use of symbology, which I think I'd be inclined to agree with. But then claims that "they recruit within their ranks the most prominent people of all fields of society: politics, law and public service." No doubt such organizations would *like* to do so. I remember seeing ads in the backs of magazines where the Rosicrucians were keen on hawking memberships on the basis that famous dead people like Francis Bacon, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Leonardo da Vinci, Isaac Newton were members. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2225/what-is-rosicrucianism-all-about If wishes were fishes, they'd have a *big* fish tale. Whether Freud said so or not, sometimes a cigar is "just a cigar," but there are doubtless people including your acquaintance that are incapable of accepting that. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 6 15:24:04 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:24:04 -0400 Subject: Drpcdr.ca Newsletter August 06, 2012 Message-ID: Drpcdr.ca Newsletter August 6, 2012 Optional upgrade XP SP2 to XP SP3. This may be required in order to connect tablets to Windows XP. Run update while disconnected from Internet: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=24 Optional upgrade Windows Media Player 9 to Windows Media Player 11. Some MP3 players need this! Run update while disconnected from Internet. For Win XP: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/6296723/Windows_Media_Player_11_%28100__Genuine__No_WGA%29 First disconnect Internet then upgrade java to version 1.7.0.4. This will disable LimeWire. LimeWire is junk anyway. Firefox 11.0 needs updated Java. http://www.filehippo.com/download_jre_32/12199/ First disconnect Internet then upgrade Firefox to version 11, March 2012: http://www.filehippo.com/download_firefox/11868/ First disconnect Internet then upgrade Internet Explorer from 7 to 8. Support for IE 7 is declining. For Windows XP: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/downloads/ie-8 First disconnect Internet then upgrade Internet Explorer from 8 to 9. Optional for Windows Vista and 7: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/internet-explorer/downloads/ie-9/worldwide-languages In order to play XviD videos you may need to update/install Xvid codec: http://www.xvidmovies.com/codec/ Upgrade to Net Framework 4 is sometimes required by some software applications: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=17718 Nero InCD allows you to drag and drop files to rewriteable disks: http://www.softpedia.com/get/CD-DVD-Tools/Data-CD-DVD-Burning/Nero-InCD.shtml July, 2012 I installed some Karaoke programs for burning, ripping and playing Karaoke disks. -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 6 15:27:23 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 11:27:23 -0400 Subject: Drpcdr.ca Newsletter August 06, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <501FE25B.40600@utoronto.ca> On 12-08-06 11:24 AM, charles chris wrote: > Drpcdr.ca Newsletter August 6, 2012 > > Optional upgrade XP SP2 to XP SP3. This may be required in order to > connect tablets to Windows XP. Run update while disconnected from Internet: I don't think this is the place to send such newsletters. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 6 15:28:16 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 11:28:16 -0400 Subject: Drpcdr.ca Newsletter August 06, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <501FE290.4010002@rogers.com> Given this is a Linux mailing list, why are you posting this stuff here? charles chris wrote: > > Drpcdr.ca Newsletter August 6, 2012 > > Optional upgrade XP SP2 to XP SP3.This may be required in order to > connect tablets to Windows XP. Run update while disconnected from > Internet: > > http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=24 > > Optional upgrade Windows Media Player 9 to Windows Media Player > 11.Some MP3 players need this!Run update while disconnected from > Internet.For Win XP: > > http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/6296723/Windows_Media_Player_11_%28100__Genuine__No_WGA%29 > > First disconnect Internet then upgrade java to version 1.7.0.4.This > will disable LimeWire.LimeWire is junk anyway.Firefox 11.0 needs > updated Java. > > http://www.filehippo.com/download_jre_32/12199/ > > First disconnect Internet then upgrade Firefox to version 11, March 2012: > > http://www.filehippo.com/download_firefox/11868/ > > First disconnect Internet then upgrade Internet Explorer from 7 to > 8.Support for IE 7 is declining. For Windows XP: > > http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/internet-explorer/downloads/ie-8 > > First disconnect Internet then upgrade Internet Explorer from 8 to > 9.Optional for Windows Vista and 7: > > http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/internet-explorer/downloads/ie-9/worldwide-languages > > In order to play XviD videos you may need to update/install Xvid codec: > > http://www.xvidmovies.com/codec/ > > Upgrade to Net Framework 4 is sometimes required by some software > applications: > > http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=17718 > > Nero InCD allows you to drag and drop files to rewriteable disks: > > http://www.softpedia.com/get/CD-DVD-Tools/Data-CD-DVD-Burning/Nero-InCD.shtml > > July, 2012 I installed some Karaoke programs for burning, ripping and > playing Karaoke disks. > > > > -- > http://drpcdr.ca > http://jobcircle.ca > 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 6 15:45:00 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 11:45:00 -0400 Subject: Drpcdr.ca Newsletter August 06, 2012 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This doesn't seem like it has any Linux relevance. You might want to take this to a Microsoft Windows(tm) user group list? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 19:35:26 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 15:35:26 -0400 Subject: Hi-res refurb Dell laptop. Comments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120807193526.GH19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 05, 2012 at 08:09:34AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > Since I'm mainly looking at something for 3d graphics dev, having a > binary accelerated driver that works with recent kernels/xorg is important. > Sad that a 1997 laptop has better resolution than most newer laptops or > even LCD's available today. > > Er, s/1997/2007/ There are plenty of laptops out there with 1920x1080 displays. They cost more, but you have to pay for better features after all. Lots of 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 screens too, and even a decent number of 2560x1600 and 2560x1440 screens. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 21:52:15 2012 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 17:52:15 -0400 Subject: GTK theme not applied in Gnome Shell Message-ID: Very minor complaint, but cannot find any useful info on Google, so maybe someone has some troubleshooting ideas on this? I'm on Debian Unstable, running Gnome Shell 3.4.2-1. Gnome apps are drawn using the default blocky gnome theme, even though in preferences for Gnome Shell the Adwaita GTK theme is selected. This has persisted over several updates to Gnome Shell, gnome-settings-daemon, etc. Any suggestions? Thanks! -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 22:02:05 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 15:02:05 -0700 Subject: X.org mouse click/focus woes Message-ID: I'm having issues in X where I can move the cursor with my mouse, click buttons with the keyboard, but not click/focus with the most. It happens in both gnome and KDE, with various mice (mouse?). I tried a fresh reinstall to fix it but it's still occurring, even after going from Ubuntu 10 to 12. It *does* seen to go away if I logout + logon, but returns after the next reboot. Google hasn't provided any useful hints yet. This is on a Zotac Ion box /w nforce chipset. Ideas? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 22:26:11 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 18:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: X.org mouse click/focus woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Tyler Aviss | I'm having issues in X where I can move the cursor with my mouse, click | buttons with the keyboard, but not click/focus with the most. s/most/mouse ? I assume that to click with the keyboard you also have to navigate with the keyboard: the mouse has no effect on which button is selected. | It happens in both gnome and KDE, with various mice (mouse?). I tried a | fresh reinstall to fix it but it's still occurring, even after going from | Ubuntu 10 to 12. | | It *does* seen to go away if I logout + logon, but returns after the next | reboot. | | Google hasn't provided any useful hints yet. | | This is on a Zotac Ion box /w nforce chipset. Some misbehaving applications? Some applications can grab control of the mouse and not let go. At least so it seems to me -- I don't actually know the X model from the programming side. You don't mention your distro or release. I use Acer Revos with Ion for HTPCs. Seem to work fine in this regard. They run Ubuntu 10.04. Your Zotac may use Ion2 which might be different. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 22:55:41 2012 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 18:55:41 -0400 Subject: GTK theme not applied in Gnome Shell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 7, 2012 5:52 PM, "Thomas Milne" wrote: > > Very minor complaint, but cannot find any useful info on Google, so > maybe someone has some troubleshooting ideas on this? > > I'm on Debian Unstable, running Gnome Shell 3.4.2-1. Gnome apps are > drawn using the default blocky gnome theme, even though in preferences > for Gnome Shell the Adwaita GTK theme is selected. This has persisted > over several updates to Gnome Shell, gnome-settings-daemon, etc. > > Any suggestions? Not sure if this helps, Thomas, but when I got this behaviour in the jhbuild environment, I needed to update gnome-themes-standard. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 23:04:24 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 16:04:24 -0700 Subject: X.org mouse click/focus woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 7, 2012 3:26 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > > | From: Tyler Aviss > > | I'm having issues in X where I can move the cursor with my mouse, click > | buttons with the keyboard, but not click/focus with the most. > > s/most/mouse > ? > Sorry, mouse > I assume that to click with the keyboard you also have to navigate > with the keyboard: the mouse has no effect on which button is > selected. > > | It happens in both gnome and KDE, with various mice (mouse?). I tried a > | fresh reinstall to fix it but it's still occurring, even after going from > | Ubuntu 10 to 12. > | > | It *does* seen to go away if I logout + logon, but returns after the next > | reboot. > | > | Google hasn't provided any useful hints yet. > | > | This is on a Zotac Ion box /w nforce chipset. > > Some misbehaving applications? Some applications can grab control of > the mouse and not let go. At least so it seems to me -- I don't > actually know the X model from the programming side. > DOesn't seen to be it. With keyboard, current window had focus, and the menu-bar icons couldn't be clicked either. Not sure on if it's ion/kind, will check. > You don't mention your distro or release. > > I use Acer Revos with Ion for HTPCs. Seem to work fine in this > regard. They run Ubuntu 10.04. Your Zotac may use Ion2 which might > be different. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 23:44:18 2012 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 19:44:18 -0400 Subject: GTK theme not applied in Gnome Shell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Michael Hill wrote: > > On Aug 7, 2012 5:52 PM, "Thomas Milne" wrote: >> >> Very minor complaint, but cannot find any useful info on Google, so >> maybe someone has some troubleshooting ideas on this? >> >> I'm on Debian Unstable, running Gnome Shell 3.4.2-1. Gnome apps are >> drawn using the default blocky gnome theme, even though in preferences >> for Gnome Shell the Adwaita GTK theme is selected. This has persisted >> over several updates to Gnome Shell, gnome-settings-daemon, etc. >> >> Any suggestions? > > Not sure if this helps, Thomas, but when I got this behaviour in the jhbuild > environment, I needed to update gnome-themes-standard. > > Mike Right now it's the same version as Gnome Shell. Thanks for the tip though. I'll keep an eye on that. :-) -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 7 23:43:52 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 19:43:52 -0400 Subject: X.org mouse click/focus woes Message-ID: I've had this happen mostly in Pidgin. I think there's a hidden modal window open somewhere, maybe an error message of some sort. Sometimes killing the app restores the mouse, but sometimes that's only temporary. --Bob. Tyler Aviss wrote: >On Aug 7, 2012 3:26 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: >> >> | From: Tyler Aviss >> >> | I'm having issues in X where I can move the cursor with my mouse, click >> | buttons with the keyboard, but not click/focus with the most. >> >> s/most/mouse >> ? >> >Sorry, mouse > >> I assume that to click with the keyboard you also have to navigate >> with the keyboard: the mouse has no effect on which button is >> selected. >> >> | It happens in both gnome and KDE, with various mice (mouse?). I tried a >> | fresh reinstall to fix it but it's still occurring, even after going >from >> | Ubuntu 10 to 12. >> | >> | It *does* seen to go away if I logout + logon, but returns after the >next >> | reboot. >> | >> | Google hasn't provided any useful hints yet. >> | >> | This is on a Zotac Ion box /w nforce chipset. >> >> Some misbehaving applications? Some applications can grab control of >> the mouse and not let go. At least so it seems to me -- I don't >> actually know the X model from the programming side. >> >DOesn't seen to be it. With keyboard, current window had focus, and the >menu-bar icons couldn't be clicked either. > >Not sure on if it's ion/kind, will check. > >> You don't mention your distro or release. >> >> I use Acer Revos with Ion for HTPCs. Seem to work fine in this >> regard. They run Ubuntu 10.04. Your Zotac may use Ion2 which might >> be different. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 02:08:21 2012 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 22:08:21 -0400 Subject: GTK theme not applied in Gnome Shell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 5:52 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Very minor complaint, but cannot find any useful info on Google, so > maybe someone has some troubleshooting ideas on this? > > I'm on Debian Unstable, running Gnome Shell 3.4.2-1. Gnome apps are > drawn using the default blocky gnome theme, even though in preferences > for Gnome Shell the Adwaita GTK theme is selected. This has persisted > over several updates to Gnome Shell, gnome-settings-daemon, etc. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks! Hi Thomas ... I don't run Gnome Shell but I run GTK apps in Fluxbox + Debian Unstable and to get my chosen GTK theme - "Zukitwo" - to work there are 2 files I had to create: * ~/.gtkrc-2.0 * ~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini ... plus some themes are only GTK2 and GTK3 apps will not be styled properly (Zukitwo supports both GTK2 + GTK3). Maybe check that both those files are present on your system and your chosen theme supports both versions of GTK? -- http://www.circuidipity.com .~. / /V\ // \\ /( )\ ^`~`^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 03:39:40 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 23:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bootable USB flash memory sticks for installation Message-ID: Flash memory sticks seem like a great installation medium. I know the adepts among us say that PXE is better, but I will ignore that for now. I would like a variety of bootable systems, several on one stick. (Speak softly and carry a big stick?) As far as I can make out, there are several schemes for making a bootable USB stick from a .iso, and I don't understand why. I think some use grub and some (more?) use syslinux. (The raw bootable .iso uses grub or more likely isolinux. ) I think some have a .iso file on a FAT filesystem and use loopback to access it, some others unpack the .iso onto the USB stick in some more expressive filesystem. Grub2 seems to support loop devices. But such a device cannot be passed to Linux: the grub driver is unrelated to the Linux loop driver. Typically the programs to create bootable USBs don't explain what they are doing. They can have mysterious failure modes too. This looks intriguing but seems to only run under Windows This looks a little dodgy but might be good The writeup suggests that it requires Ubuntu, an odd limitation. The script just installs multisystem.deb from their site -- magic. This looks instructive. Perhaps this recipe does manually what the above does automatically. It appears that all the magic is in the grub.cfg. And the grub entry doesn't do chain loading. So it must mimic what the bootable CD/DVD intended to do -- in other words, the .iso cannot be treated as a black box, parts must be copied into the grub.cfg. For example, any kernel flags must be put in the grub.cfg Does grub2 provide a similar runtime environment for the booted kernel as syslinux? I wish grub allowed the "configfile" command inside menu entries. Wait, reading "info grub" it looks as if it might be legal. If so, I have a new wish. When the grub configfile building routines on Fedora or Ubuntu run, they also look for bootable linuxes on other paritions. And they craft normal menu entries for each of them, with kernel and initrd lines WITH options suitable for this kernel, not the one to be booted. Since it is hard to discover the right options, and that partition might get changed (added or deleted kernels) without this partition's grub config update script being run, why not generate a chaining configfile command instead? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 18:41:26 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 14:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bootable USB flash memory sticks for installation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | As far as I can make out, there are several schemes for making a bootable | USB stick from a .iso, and I don't understand why. This page is useful for Fedora: It contains this warning: Ubuntu and derivative Linux distributions have a usb-creator program similar to Live USB Creator. This does not work with Fedora ISO images, it silently rejects them. usb-creator requires the ISO to have a Debian layout, with a /.disk/info file and a casper directory. Do not attempt to use this utility to write a Fedora ISO image. The livecd-iso-to-disk script is not meant to be run from a non-Fedora system. Even if it happens to run and write a stick apparently successfully from some other distribution, the stick may well fail to boot. Use of livecd-iso-to-disk on any distribution other than Fedora is unsupported and not expected to work: please use an alternative method described above. This implies that the task is a bit tricky. Also (earlier): With current Fedora releases you can also write the non-live Fedora installation images (the DVD and network installation images) to a USB stick, which many users find more convenient and faster than writing to an actual optical disc. Why would this not have always been the case? They were bootable, so why could they not be turned into USB sticks? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 21:32:29 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 17:32:29 -0400 Subject: Proposal for a Wireless Access authentication talk? Message-ID: Hey, Curious, any one here managed to configure their APs to authenticate through their centralized authentication system? (WP2) If so, mind offering a talk some day? describing the set up a bit, and what would be the painful section to watch out for? What are the APs that you are using? Would be extra cool if you are using some OSS products like freeradius and openLDAP Anyway, just something that would be call to share as a group. Casually checked it out this afternoon and it look intimidating than I initially thought Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 8 21:39:43 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 17:39:43 -0400 Subject: Proposal for a Wireless Access authentication talk? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:32 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Curious, any one here managed to configure their APs to authenticate > through their centralized authentication system? (WP2) > > If so, mind offering a talk some day? describing the set up a bit, and > what would be the painful section to watch out for? Hmm. The Board has been musing about a "router night" for a while, which has been looking like it's a series of small topics. Centralizing authentication sounds like an interesting addition. Certainly worth tossing onto the list. It still leaves open the question of who knows enough about it to talk about it, but if the scope is drawn down to "You've got 30 minutes", that might make it easier for someone to imagine themselves capable to be the speaker. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 02:18:12 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2012 22:18:12 -0400 Subject: Proposal for a Wireless Access authentication talk? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50231DE4.3000900@utoronto.ca> On 12-08-08 05:39 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:32 PM, William Muriithi > wrote: >> Curious, any one here managed to configure their APs to authenticate >> through their centralized authentication system? (WP2) >> >> If so, mind offering a talk some day? describing the set up a bit, and >> what would be the painful section to watch out for? > > Hmm. The Board has been musing about a "router night" for a while, > which has been looking like it's a series of small topics. > Centralizing authentication sounds like an interesting addition. > Certainly worth tossing onto the list. > > It still leaves open the question of who knows enough about it to talk > about it, but if the scope is drawn down to "You've got 30 minutes", > that might make it easier for someone to imagine themselves capable to > be the speaker. I'm no expert, but I could conceive of speaking about WPA2 + Freeradius given enough time to get a demo router flashed and create a presentation. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 16:57:23 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 09:57:23 -0700 Subject: X.org mouse click/focus woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So it turns out.... it was my mouse (or mice rather, as the initial replacement also had similar issues). For some reason, X detects my >3-button mouse as a "mac mouse" and does weird stuff to the button mapping. A logout/login fixes it until next reboot (why, I don't know). Added a cheap 3-button mouse, and all seems well. On Aug 7, 2012 3:02 PM, "Tyler Aviss" wrote: > I'm having issues in X where I can move the cursor with my mouse, click > buttons with the keyboard, but not click/focus with the most. > > It happens in both gnome and KDE, with various mice (mouse?). I tried a > fresh reinstall to fix it but it's still occurring, even after going from > Ubuntu 10 to 12. > > It *does* seen to go away if I logout + logon, but returns after the next > reboot. > > Google hasn't provided any useful hints yet. > > This is on a Zotac Ion box /w nforce chipset. > > Ideas? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 18:38:41 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 14:38:41 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. Message-ID: August 9, 2012 The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. Feedback from complaint #38212 regarding an incident on July 25, 2012 suggests TTC is supporting the heavy handed enforcement of rules regarding transfers. The rules stipulate that no stop overs are allowed and transfers must be used at transfer points. These idiotic rules stifle consumer spending, the life blood of our economy. Potential customers that travel via TTC are deterred from purchasing goods and services. Ma and Pa operations do NOT get funding from multiple levels of government that have collected taxes from the population. The abolition of these archaic rules regarding the use of transfers will NOT kill TTC revenue. Imagine a coffee shop operation getting most of its revenue from customers purchasing coffee. The owner of the business must process thousands of $2.00 transactions in order to pay thousands of dollars in rent every month not to mention cost of supplies, utilities and payroll. Every other transit authority in the GTA has less rigid policies regarding the use of transfers. Transfers can be used to ride transit anywhere within a two hour time period. The TTC must do its part to help stimulate the sluggish economy. These are tough times and oppressive rules regarding the use of transfers are NOT justified! The TTC has studied adopting the same transfer policy practiced by Mississauga, Vaughan, Markham, Richmond Hill, Brampton, etc. The TTC has chosen to aggressively enforce Draconian laws regarding the use of transfers! This MUST STOP NOW! On July 25, 2012 I forgot my metro pass at home. I had boarded the south bound 41 bus from Keele and Sheppard Ave. The bus driver refused to believe me when I told him of my mistake. So, to avoid the escalation I sensed the driver was eagerly anticipating, I paid my $3.00 fare. I received a transfer with a time of 3:30 PM. I got off at Lawrence. I purchased a lunch at Mr. Jerk and tried to board a 52 Lawrence east bound bus #1389 at the nearest bus stop, 1 stop east of Keele St. I placed my bicycle on the bike rack and entered the bus. I showed the driver my transfer. The driver refused to even inspect my transfer and stated my transfer was no good at this stop. I explained to the driver, a black female, that I subscribe to the TTC and just forgot my metro pass at home, that I had already paid double fare, that as a TTC subscriber of the metro pass I don't concern myself with transfer points. The driver insisted I remove my bicycle, go back 1 stop to Keele and wait for the next east bound bus. I refused! The bus driver escalated matters by calling the police and taking the bus out of service, inconveniencing several passengers on board. I waited for the police to arrive and I told them my story. I removed my bike from the rack, rode 1 stop west to Keele St and boarded another east bound bus. I showed the driver the same transfer and continued my journey to see my physician. Why does the TTC call police on law abiding fare paying customers? Not long ago TTC bus drivers called cops on me 5 times in an 8 day period. One driver was directly responsible for 3 such calls and indirectly responsible for a 4th. The 5th calling of police came from another driver. Now the TTC is NOT all bad. They allow strollers, pets and eating food on TTC vehicles. Also, recently, the TTC has extended its hours for customer service and the lost and found is now open on Saturdays with extended evening hours. This is great! Now the TTC needs to abandon Draconian laws for the use of transfers ASAP! Thanks for your consideration. Christopher C. Charles -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 18:55:29 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 14:55:29 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Charles > > Every other transit authority in the GTA has less rigid policies regarding > the use of > transfers. Transfers can be used to ride transit anywhere within a two hour > time period. I sympathise with you but you are not comparing the two systems properly. TTC do not have a time constraint on how long you are on their system. You can board a train and spend the whole day without anybody complaining. That's not the case for the others as you already mentioned. For that flexibility, they tend to be a bit inflexible in transfer usage. I think you should just have gone back to the spot the transfer was valid. The TTC driver was just following her employers directives and in my humble opinion, they sound sane William > > The TTC must do its part to help stimulate the sluggish economy. These are > tough times and > oppressive rules regarding the use of transfers are NOT justified! > > The TTC has studied adopting the same transfer policy practiced by > Mississauga, Vaughan, Markham, Richmond Hill, Brampton, etc. > The TTC has chosen to aggressively enforce Draconian laws regarding the use > of transfers! This MUST STOP NOW! > > On July 25, 2012 I forgot my metro pass at home. I had boarded the south > bound > 41 bus from Keele and Sheppard Ave. > > The bus driver refused to believe me when I told him of my mistake. So, to > avoid the > escalation I sensed the driver was eagerly anticipating, I paid my $3.00 > fare. > > I received a transfer with a time of 3:30 PM. I got off at Lawrence. I > purchased a lunch > at Mr. Jerk and tried to board a 52 Lawrence east bound bus #1389 at the > nearest bus stop, > 1 stop east of Keele St. I placed my bicycle on the bike rack and entered > the bus. > I showed the driver my transfer. > > The driver refused to even inspect my transfer and stated my transfer was no > good at this stop. > I explained to the driver, a black female, that I subscribe to the TTC and > just forgot my metro pass at home, > that I had already paid double fare, that as a TTC subscriber of the metro > pass I don't > concern myself with transfer points. > > The driver insisted I remove my bicycle, go back 1 stop to Keele and wait > for the next > east bound bus. > > I refused! The bus driver escalated matters by calling the police and > taking the bus out > of service, inconveniencing several passengers on board. > > I waited for the police to arrive and I told them my story. I removed my > bike from the rack, > rode 1 stop west to Keele St and boarded another east bound bus. I showed > the driver the same > transfer and continued my journey to see my physician. > > Why does the TTC call police on law abiding fare paying customers? Not long > ago TTC bus > drivers called cops on me 5 times in an 8 day period. One driver was > directly responsible > for 3 such calls and indirectly responsible for a 4th. The 5th calling of > police came from > another driver. > > Now the TTC is NOT all bad. They allow strollers, pets and eating food on > TTC vehicles. > > Also, recently, the TTC has extended its hours for customer service and the > lost and found is > now open on Saturdays with extended evening hours. This is great! > > Now the TTC needs to abandon Draconian laws for the use of transfers ASAP! > > Thanks for your consideration. > > Christopher C. Charles > > -- > http://drpcdr.ca > http://jobcircle.ca > 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 19:39:10 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 15:39:10 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120809193909.GI19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 09, 2012 at 02:55:29PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > I sympathise with you but you are not comparing the two systems > properly. TTC do not have a time constraint on how long you are on > their system. You can board a train and spend the whole day without > anybody complaining. That's not the case for the others as you already > mentioned. For that flexibility, they tend to be a bit inflexible in > transfer usage. Guess which of those two options is more useful to the users. Hint: It is not the one offered by the TTC. > I think you should just have gone back to the spot the transfer was > valid. The TTC driver was just following her employers directives and > in my humble opinion, they sound sane They are not sane. Certainly the drivers are just enforcing the stupid rules they are told to enforce. The only way to make the TTC practical to use is to have a pass. Paying fare and using transfers is highly inconvinient. It is amazingly stupid to not be able to go from point A to point B and make a 5 minute stop in the middle of that trip to pick up something at a store. Every other transit system lets you do that. Most transit systems in the world seem to do that. Also what do they do if you have to transfer 2 or 3 times on a trip? How do they know whether you walked a block somewhere earlier on that trip? Why should they care? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 19:41:06 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 15:41:06 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120809194106.GJ19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 09, 2012 at 02:55:29PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > I sympathise with you but you are not comparing the two systems > properly. TTC do not have a time constraint on how long you are on > their system. You can board a train and spend the whole day without > anybody complaining. That's not the case for the others as you already > mentioned. For that flexibility, they tend to be a bit inflexible in > transfer usage. Actually doing that violates TTC rules. Your fare covers your direct trip from your starting point to your end point. Going back and forth is against TTC rules as far as I understand them. Is anyone going to notice and check? Probably not, but it is still against their rules. So yes it is time limited. It is limited to the time it takes for you to get from the start of your trip to the end by a reasonably direct route. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 19:57:24 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 15:57:24 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: <20120809193909.GI19567-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120809193909.GI19567@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1344542244.4327.1.camel@tecumseth3> On Thu, 2012-08-09 at 15:39 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 09, 2012 at 02:55:29PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > > I sympathise with you but you are not comparing the two systems > > properly. TTC do not have a time constraint on how long you are on > > their system. You can board a train and spend the whole day without > > anybody complaining. That's not the case for the others as you already > > mentioned. For that flexibility, they tend to be a bit inflexible in > > transfer usage. > > Guess which of those two options is more useful to the users. Hint: > It is not the one offered by the TTC. Steve Munro has been watching TTC operation and policy for a while. He might have some guidance on questions like this. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen.a.gordon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 19:58:14 2012 From: stephen.a.gordon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stephen Gordon) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 15:58:14 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 2:38 PM, charles chris wrote: > The driver refused to even inspect my transfer and stated my transfer was no > good at this stop. > I explained to the driver, a black female, that I subscribe to the TTC and > just forgot my metro pass at home, > that I had already paid double fare, that as a TTC subscriber of the metro > pass I don't > concern myself with transfer points. Out of interest, what was the relevance of the driver being a black female? Steve -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 20:08:28 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 16:08:28 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <502418BC.2030108@rogers.com> charles chris wrote: > The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, > nonsensical and business unfriendly. > Feedback from complaint #38212 regarding an incident on July 25, 2012 > suggests TTC is > supporting the heavy handed enforcement of rules regarding transfers. Regardless of the policies, you chose to force the drivers to suit you. I have known of those policies for many, many years, even though it's been a very long time since I used the TTC to commute. BTW, IIRC, the transfer policies are printed on each and every one of them. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 20:13:48 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 16:13:48 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <502419FC.4060806@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > I sympathise with you but you are not comparing the two systems > properly. TTC do not have a time constraint on how long you are on > their system. In Mississauga, the transfer is valid for 3 hours from when the bus started that run. I live in Mississauga, on a run that starts in Brampton, so a significant amount of that 3 hours has already disappeared before I even get that transfer in my hands. Also, I recall the days of paying a 2nd fare when transferring between bus & subway at Warden. Back then the subway was in the Toronto zone and all the buses were for Scarborough, which was a different zone. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 21:13:26 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 17:13:26 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <502427F6.80605@utoronto.ca> On 12-08-09 02:38 PM, charles chris wrote: > August 9, 2012 > > The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical > and business unfriendly. > Feedback from complaint #38212 regarding an incident on July 25, 2012 > suggests TTC is > supporting the heavy handed enforcement of rules regarding transfers. Does the TTC use Linux? Perhaps you could ask them politely for data on transfers, run it through gretl & R and give them some empirical data supporting why they should change their policies. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 9 21:22:58 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 17:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: charles chris [I understand that the drivers have to enforce policy. Arguing with them isn't likely to lead to a good outcome. In fact, they are concerned about being assaulted by customers, something that apparently happens all too often, so it can lead to the police being called.] | The rules stipulate that ... transfers must be used at transfer points. On topic for TLUG: To go to TLUG, I used to travel south on the Yonge line, get off at College (with my transfer) and walk towards the U of T. If a street car came along, I'd board it. Otherwise, I'd walk the whole way. Each outcome happened perhaps 50% of the time. After doing that for a few years, the streetcar drivers started to refuse me a ride. Those are the rules. Since then, the College streetcar has been useless to me since it is so random and infrequent. More recently, I could go to a website to tell me when the next streetcar is coming, but I cannot consult it from the subway since there is no internet access there. Perhaps I could try when the train is at Rosedale (some cell connectivity). So: a bunch of interconnected annoyances. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 18:08:34 2012 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 14:08:34 -0400 Subject: Curious why Mars rover has such a dinky camera and computer? - Future of Tech on NBCNews.com Message-ID: http://m.futureoftech.msnbc.msn.com/technology/futureoftech/curious-why-mars-rover-has-such-dinky-camera-computer-934969 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 20:23:04 2012 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 16:23:04 -0400 Subject: Curious why Mars rover has such a dinky camera and computer? - Future of Tech on NBCNews.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50256DA8.6090900@alteeve.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > http://m.futureoftech.msnbc.msn.com/technology/futureoftech/curious-why-mars-rover-has-such-dinky-camera-computer-934969 > Hey! I'm just happy it's not just a wintel box. :P -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 20:32:22 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 16:32:22 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? Message-ID: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> I have to replace my flakey Athlon Phenom II system with something that I hope will be more reliable and more quiet. I've had very good luck with i7 systems, so I thought that would be a reasonable way to go. I also have an Asus Xonar sound card to migrate. But otherwise, I'm in the market for a new system: running quiet and running cool are important. Suggestions? What to buy? What to avoid? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 20:33:02 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 16:33:02 -0400 Subject: Curious why Mars rover has such a dinky camera and computer? - Future of Tech on NBCNews.com In-Reply-To: <50256DA8.6090900-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <50256DA8.6090900@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20120810203302.GA1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 04:23:04PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > I'm just happy it's not just a wintel box. :P For some reason I had thought the rovers were running linux, but apparently they use vxworks. I guess real time was useful. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 20:37:01 2012 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 16:37:01 -0400 Subject: Curious why Mars rover has such a dinky camera and computer? - Future of Tech on NBCNews.com In-Reply-To: <20120810203302.GA1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <50256DA8.6090900@alteeve.com> <20120810203302.GA1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Given the time frame when the specs on these were nailed down, I wonder if the version of vxworks is vulnerable to the root exploit via the wide open management port? :) Thanks -Ben On Aug 10, 2012 4:33 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 04:23:04PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > > I'm just happy it's not just a wintel box. :P > > For some reason I had thought the rovers were running linux, but > apparently they use vxworks. > > I guess real time was useful. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 20:46:26 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 16:46:26 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> Message-ID: <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 04:32:22PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > I have to replace my flakey Athlon Phenom II system with something that I > hope will be more reliable and more quiet. I've had very good luck with i7 > systems, so I thought that would be a reasonable way to go. I also have an > Asus Xonar sound card to migrate. But otherwise, I'm in the market for a new > system: running quiet and running cool are important. > > Suggestions? What to buy? What to avoid? Well I just upgraded my mythtv box. So far it is running very nicely. I got an Asus X79 Sabertooth with an intel core-i7 3820 and a 4x8GB pack of Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 ram. I got a SCBSK-2100 cpu fan since it has to fit in an HTPC case and height is a slight problem sometimes. Of course in my case the mythtv box is the central server of everything in the house. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 20:47:04 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 16:47:04 -0400 Subject: Curious why Mars rover has such a dinky camera and computer? - Future of Tech on NBCNews.com In-Reply-To: References: <50256DA8.6090900@alteeve.com> <20120810203302.GA1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120810204704.GC1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 04:37:01PM -0400, Ben Walton wrote: > Given the time frame when the specs on these were nailed down, I wonder if > the version of vxworks is vulnerable to the root exploit via the wide open > management port? :) Why don't you drop by and check the port on it. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 21:49:33 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:49:33 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120810204626.GB1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120810214933.GA652@amber> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 04:46:26PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 04:32:22PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > > > > Suggestions? What to buy? What to avoid? > > Well I just upgraded my mythtv box. So far it is running very nicely. > > I got an Asus X79 Sabertooth with an intel core-i7 3820 and a 4x8GB pack > of Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 ram. I got a SCBSK-2100 cpu fan since it has > to fit in an HTPC case and height is a slight problem sometimes. How is it for heat/noise? I'm perfectly willing to buy a case so if there is something you like that doesn't fit in an HTPC case... Oh, and cost (roughly)? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 21:51:49 2012 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:51:49 -0400 Subject: Curious why Mars rover has such a dinky camera and computer? - Future of Tech on NBCNews.com In-Reply-To: <20120810204704.GC1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <50256DA8.6090900@alteeve.com> <20120810203302.GA1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120810204704.GC1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Aug 10, 2012 4:47 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 04:37:01PM -0400, Ben Walton wrote: > > Given the time frame when the specs on these were nailed down, I wonder if > > the version of vxworks is vulnerable to the root exploit via the wide open > > management port? :) > > Why don't you drop by and check the port on it. :) I look forward to the day that that option exists! Thanks -Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 10 22:37:19 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:37:19 -0400 Subject: Curious why Mars rover has such a dinky camera and computer? - Future of Tech on NBCNews.com In-Reply-To: References: <50256DA8.6090900@alteeve.com> <20120810203302.GA1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120810204704.GC1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Ben > > > Given the time frame when the specs on these were nailed down, I wonder if > > > the version of vxworks is vulnerable to the root exploit via the wide open > > > management port? :) > > > > Why don't you drop by and check the port on it. :) > > I look forward to the day that that option exists! > I actually don't think that will happen in our life time if ever. It took USA back 2.5 billion dollars to deliver curiosity. If you were to deliver a human one way like curiosity , it would easily cost at least 10 times more as a lot safety features and survival weight will need to be deployed. If you try to organize for a return trip, the financial implications start looking scarcely. That and the risk of it failing despite all that preparation. If you look at the financial health of most countries across the globe now, its not hard to see why I think we can't obsorb such a financial weight. And frankly I think its not worth it, robots are far more effective in these kind of missions. William > Thanks > -Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 02:47:00 2012 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 22:47:00 -0400 Subject: Curious why Mars rover has such a dinky camera and computer? - Future of Tech on NBCNews.com In-Reply-To: References: <50256DA8.6090900@alteeve.com> <20120810203302.GA1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120810204704.GC1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 6:37 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > I actually don't think that will happen in our life time if ever. > If you look at the financial health of most countries across the globe now, > its not hard to see why I think we can't obsorb such a financial weight. > And frankly I think its not worth it, robots are far more effective in these > kind of missions. No worries - Reality TV will save us! Give it a couple years though and maybe (hopefully) someone will -- Scott Elcomb @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 12:04:47 2012 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 08:04:47 -0400 Subject: Curious why Mars rover has such a dinky camera and computer? - Future of Tech on NBCNews.com In-Reply-To: References: <50256DA8.6090900@alteeve.com> <20120810203302.GA1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120810204704.GC1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Aug 10, 2012 6:37 PM, "William Muriithi" wrote: > > Ben > > > > > Given the time frame when the specs on these were nailed down, I wonder if > > > > the version of vxworks is vulnerable to the root exploit via the wide open > > > > management port? :) > > > > > > Why don't you drop by and check the port on it. :) > > > > I look forward to the day that that option exists! > > > I actually don't think that will happen in our life time if ever. Maybe not as a quick round trip, I agree. I do think that one way trips eol start to become a reality within our lifetime though. Sadly it won't be NASA leading the way here but rather private enterprise... I hope that manned voyages to Mars become a reality, anyway...but sadly my wife had already told me that I can't go. :) Thanks -Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 15:34:38 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 11:34:38 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ttc thinks a switch to time based transfer will cost 12-20 million. 30% of this cost will be paid by metro toronto On 2012-08-09 5:23 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: | From: charles chris [I understand that the drivers have to enforce policy. Arguing with them isn't likely to lead to a good outcome. In fact, they are concerned about being assaulted by customers, something that apparently happens all too often, so it can lead to the police being called.] | The rules stipulate that ... transfers must be used at transfer points. On topic for TLUG: To go to TLUG, I used to travel south on the Yonge line, get off at College (with my transfer) and walk towards the U of T. If a street car came along, I'd board it. Otherwise, I'd walk the whole way. Each outcome happened perhaps 50% of the time. After doing that for a few years, the streetcar drivers started to refuse me a ride. Those are the rules. Since then, the College streetcar has been useless to me since it is so random and infrequent. More recently, I could go to a website to tell me when the next streetcar is coming, but I cannot consult it from the subway since there is no internet access there. Perhaps I could try when the train is at Rosedale (some cell connectivity). So: a bunch of interconnected annoyances. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 16:37:55 2012 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 12:37:55 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50268A63.4020402@gmail.com> On 12-08-11 11:34 AM, charles chris wrote: > Ttc thinks a switch to time based transfer will cost 12-20 million. 30% > of this cost will be paid by metro toronto This kind of genius is why we pay the fare collectors the 6 figure salaries. In Berlin, most subway stations are unmanned. It's much like the GO system, where it's proof-of-payment with a ticket stamp in the vehicle. Trained fare inspectors randomly check the vehicles, and the fines are set at reasonable levels. There's a ABC zone system. Inspectors make it possible to have flexible fares. There are special fares for bicycles, children or dogs, seniors and even short-trips. There are daypasses, weekly passes, monthly passes, multi-stamp tickets and normal single fare time-limited, good for a return trip ticket. There are SO many advantages to this kind of system. No more turnstiles, no more bottleneck at the TTC operator. Just walk on the train or streetcar. Note that streetcars don't open their doors when the traffic lights are green, but because the operator isn't wasting everyone's time collecting fares, everyone exits and boards within a single cycle of the lights. For those who haven't seen an ABC zone system, imagine the downtown core as zone A, the 401 forming a ring at zone B, and Markham, Vaughn, Mississauga etc. as Zone C. You can buy an AB ticket, a BC ticket, or an ABC ticket. Toronto's system is GROSSLY unfair for people living on minimum wage in outer Scarborough or Etobicoke. The streets are hostile for bicycles, and $6 to get to the laundromat and back means that people just load up their laundry buggies and grocery buggies and walk for a half hour to 45 minutes to get to the strip mall. Grr.. Deep breath. (I think I'm way off topic for the list. We should save this for a meeting.) -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 16:39:10 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 12:39:10 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Only 30%? I can't see any other government wanting to injure themselves by sending subsidies to Toronto. Of course, those inside the Toronto Reality Bending zone, that don't realize that it's not considered Toronto The Beloved outside the region, won't get that. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 18:15:18 2012 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 14:15:18 -0400 Subject: BeagleBoard.org hobbyists unleash 20 new "cape" plug-in boards, fueling Linux development on BeagleBone Message-ID: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/08/09/4709873/beagleboardorg-hobbyists-unleash.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 18:53:25 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 14:53:25 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: <50268A63.4020402-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50268A63.4020402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5026AA25.6080306@rogers.com> Mike Kallies wrote: > For those who haven't seen an ABC zone system, imagine the downtown core > as zone A, the 401 forming a ring at zone B, and Markham, Vaughn, > Mississauga etc. as Zone C. You can buy an AB ticket, a BC ticket, or > an ABC ticket. The TTC had zones up to about 1980 IIRC. When I lived in Scarborough, I had to pay a 2nd fare at Warden to transfer between bus & subway. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 19:56:15 2012 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 15:56:15 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Peter King wrote: > I have to replace my flakey Athlon Phenom II system with something that I > hope will be more reliable and more quiet. I've had very good luck with i7 > systems, so I thought that would be a reasonable way to go. I also have an > Asus Xonar sound card to migrate. But otherwise, I'm in the market for a new > system: running quiet and running cool are important. > > Suggestions? What to buy? What to avoid? Avoid anything on which UEFI secure boot cannot be disabled. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 11 21:03:10 2012 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 17:03:10 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So, a couple of you kids seem to have a hard time getting around Toronto. It's "Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly." Wow. What a crisis. Someone call Lester Pearson. The next time you whiners board your precious TTC bus, subway or streetcar, notice the little sign that's riveted beside the door. It states that part of the funding for the TTC is paid for by the Government of Ontario. That means that every taxpayer from Windsor to Waterloo to WaWa is forced to subsidize your gallivanting around T.O. So, here's a thought. Why don't you figure out what the true(!) cost of your trip is - and then voluntarily pay your fair share? I say that only after you do that for a couple of months - then you get the right to bitch... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 01:21:46 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 21:21:46 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5027052A.5090200@utoronto.ca> On 12-08-11 05:03 PM, Jon Thiele wrote: > The next time you whiners board your precious TTC bus, subway or streetcar, > notice the little sign that's riveted beside the door. It states that part > of the funding for the TTC is paid for by the Government of Ontario. That > means that every taxpayer from Windsor to Waterloo to WaWa is forced to > subsidize your gallivanting around T.O. So, here's a thought. Why don't > you figure out what the true(!) cost of your trip is - and then voluntarily > pay your fair share? I say that only after you do that for a couple of > months - then you get the right to bitch... This thread has never been OT, but now we're way off and bordering on hostile. However, please consider that your self-righteousness is entirely misplaced. I pay taxes that are used in part to construct and maintain roads all over the province that I do not, and will not ever use. I do not complain in the slightest. Part of having a functioning society is deciding collectively what is advantageous to the whole. In this case, funding transit makes it relatively more convenient to live in Toronto, where wages are generally higher than outside, which in turn leads to more tax revenue to pay for those pesky roads that I don't use.. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 02:56:27 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 22:56:27 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Actually, according to my understanding, large cities such as Toronto, provide much more tax revenue to the provincial and federal governments than they get back. (That seems to be a universal: it was a big complaint when I was in Shanghai.) I was up in Collingwood last weekend and noticed that the roads up there, and the highways between here and there, are in much better shape than the roads in, say, East York. So we in Toronto could kvetch that our tax revenues are subsidizing some rural riding roads. As well, one of my Oakville buddies complained that the taxes out there are much higher than they are in the city of Toronto. True, but the lots out there are much larger and the population density less. So when you have 100 foot frontage, compared to my 15 feet frontage, you have to pay for the extra road, hydro, water, sewage and so on... Peter > > So, a couple of you kids seem to have a hard time getting around Toronto. > It's "Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly." Wow. What a > crisis. Someone call Lester Pearson. > > The next time you whiners board your precious TTC bus, subway or > streetcar, > notice the little sign that's riveted beside the door. It states that > part > of the funding for the TTC is paid for by the Government of Ontario. > That > means that every taxpayer from Windsor to Waterloo to WaWa is forced to > subsidize your gallivanting around T.O. So, here's a thought. Why don't > you figure out what the true(!) cost of your trip is - and then > voluntarily > pay your fair share? I say that only after you do that for a couple of > months - then you get the right to bitch... > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 03:22:38 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 23:22:38 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120810204626.GB1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120812032238.GB23302@amber> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 04:46:26PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I got an Asus X79 Sabertooth with an intel core-i7 3820 and a 4x8GB pack Out of curiosity: Did you use the UEFI "bios" on the board, or go for legacy-BIOS mode? And whichever path you took, was it straightforward? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 06:01:36 2012 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 02:01:36 -0400 Subject: CDE Unix desktop open sourced Message-ID: <20120812020136.5621852f@herring_sucker.example.net> Just in case any diehards here still like it. http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/CDE-Unix-desktop-open-sourced-1661215.html -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org gstrom57-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 09:59:03 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 05:59:03 -0400 Subject: Straight from the horse's mouth Message-ID: <20120812095903.GB2435@waltdnes.org> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-August/006066.html ======================================================================== Well, we intent to continue to make it possible to run udevd outside of systemd. But that's about it. We will not polish that, or add new features to that or anything. OTOH we do polish behaviour of udev when used *within* systemd however, and that's our primary focus. And what we will certainly not do is compromise the uniform integration into systemd for some cosmetic improvements for non-systemd systems. (Yes, udev on non-systemd systems is in our eyes a dead end, in case you haven't noticed it yet. I am looking forward to the day when we can drop that support entirely.) Lennart -- Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc. ======================================================================== Plan B... toot... (blowing my own horn) https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev/Automount_USB -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 11:37:13 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 07:37:13 -0400 Subject: CDE Unix desktop open sourced In-Reply-To: <20120812020136.5621852f@herring_sucker.example.net> References: <20120812020136.5621852f@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 2:01 AM, Glen Strom wrote: > Just in case any diehards here still like it. > > http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/CDE-Unix-desktop-open-sourced-1661215.html Ah. CDE now available freely, no reason to continue with GNOME or KDE projects... -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 11:51:14 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 07:51:14 -0400 Subject: CDE Unix desktop open sourced In-Reply-To: References: <20120812020136.5621852f@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: <502798B2.50704@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 2:01 AM, Glen Strom wrote: >> >Just in case any diehards here still like it. >> > >> >http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/CDE-Unix-desktop-open-sourced-1661215.html > Ah. CDE now available freely, no reason to continue with GNOME or KDE > projects... > Great. Now that that's out of the way, they can concentrate on important stuff like 9 track tape stands. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 13:37:44 2012 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:37:44 -0400 Subject: CDE Unix desktop open sourced In-Reply-To: <20120812020136.5621852f@herring_sucker.example.net> References: <20120812020136.5621852f@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: I still remember thinking cde was a klunky user experience even when stacked against really early kde releases... We used to build kde for our sparc stations to avoid using cde. :) Thanks -Ben On Aug 12, 2012 2:01 AM, "Glen Strom" wrote: > Just in case any diehards here still like it. > > > http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/CDE-Unix-desktop-open-sourced-1661215.html > > -- > Glen Strom > gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org > gstrom57-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 14:22:25 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 10:22:25 -0400 Subject: CDE Unix desktop open sourced In-Reply-To: References: <20120812020136.5621852f@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 9:37 AM, Ben Walton wrote: > I still remember thinking cde was a klunky user experience even when > stacked against really early kde releases... > > We used to build kde for our sparc stations to avoid using cde. :) My favorite part is that people might want CDE for "use in some lightweight distributions." At the time... a) CDE and Motif were considered horribly heavyweight; b) One of the points of using a "DE" was supposed to be that since widgets and services would be widely reused, they ought to be lighter weight than their alternatives. Unfortunately, things went down a counter-Unix-Philosophy trail, where things became less scriptable, and everything got statically compiled into everything, to a fault. (Sure, there are dynamic libraries, but if you want to install a newer app, you need new dynamic libraries, so they might as well be statically linked, and you have the worst of worlds...) -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From voidpointer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 17:52:07 2012 From: voidpointer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Nicolaides) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 13:52:07 -0400 Subject: CDE Unix desktop open sourced In-Reply-To: References: <20120812020136.5621852f@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: Maybe it's my inexperience with CDE and commercial UNIX in general but I *like* the look and feel of CDE. I have always had a fascination with CDE to the point of configuring fvwm to look and behave similarly with a Front Panel like bar at the bottom. I think it's the fact that CDE looks nothing like Windows and only trivially to Mac OSX. These days most Desktop Environments like KDE or Xfce try too hard to be like Windows or Mac OSX, with the thought of trying to Linux easier and more familiar, perhaps. I like the distinctive look of CDE over this. Reading the Wiki for CDE on Sourceforge, it seems it will build only on certain distros. I think when I get some time I will install a supported platform and give it a whirl. On 12 August 2012 09:37, Ben Walton wrote: > I still remember thinking cde was a klunky user experience even when > stacked against really early kde releases... > > We used to build kde for our sparc stations to avoid using cde. :) > > Thanks > -Ben > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan.milway-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 18:19:06 2012 From: dan.milway-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dan Milway) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 14:19:06 -0400 Subject: System76 laptops Message-ID: I'm in the market for a new laptop and I'm intrigued by System76. I Can't find any real reviews though. Does anyone out there have any experience with System76 Hardware or any other preinstalled Linux laptops? Thanks, -Dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 21:05:36 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:05:36 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: Couple of things: 1. 1) The transition to time-based travel is not prohibitive, and it is probably inevitable. The TTC has committed to moving to the Presto card system , used everywhere in the region (including GO Transit) except for the TTC -- and even in the TTC it is in limited use (ie, Presto is accepted at College, Queen's Park and a few other subway stations, so I can take it home from TLUG but not going there). Much more convenient than tokens. The city is committed to widely implement Presto by the time the Vaughan subway extension is completed in 2015. That's to (amongst other things) allow the large GO terminal at York University to move up to the Jane/407 station. 2. The transfer system used by the TTC -- which has existed since before I moved to Toronto in the early 70s -- isn't sophisticated enough to enable the time-based system used in the 'burbs. For instance, the time on the transfer isn't the time you got on the bus, it's when the bus left its starting point. Real-time printing of entry times on transfers would indeed be prohibitively expensive, especially with Presto coming to replace that. 3. Toronto's bus-to-bus transfer system may be sub-optimal, but -- as anyone who's used transit in London or New York or Montreal will know -- its subway-to-bus transfer systems (with most subway stations being transfer-less) are actually quite sophisticated and speeds travel significantly when going between modes. For better or worse, the unit of measure used by the TTC is usually per-trip, not per-time (except for day or monthly passes) or per-kilometre (except for trips outside the Toronto boundary). We don't use zones like many cities, though that too may be coming once Presto allows for a more regional approach to transit use (ie, being able to seamlessly transfer between GO Transit and TTC within Toronto). What I found in Prague recently was they were able to effectively use the time-based fares to implement a kind of zone system, with a cheap fare for 30 minutes (ie, a local trip) and a standard fare for two hours. Presto will enable that too if the will exists to do that. TTC drivers are subject to substantial abuse from passengers, and I only recall on instance in the last few years where it was warranted. The driver is under no obligation to "take your word for it" that you left your pass at home, especially since passes are transferable. Indeed it would not surprise me if drivers were EXPLICITLY instructed not to accept such explanations. Under those conditions you use the rules that apply to taking a single trip. You have the right to appeal your situation to TTC management, but I wouldn't count on them being any more sympathetic than others here. - Evan PS: In years previous, Presto has a history of offering enticement dealsto encourage people to get cards, often held at events on occasions such as "back to school". It would not be surprising to see Presto promotions being held at colleges and universities around the region this September. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 21:21:20 2012 From: phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 17:21:20 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <5FD88867-ECFE-4E88-B266-C047BB4DA008@acm.org> On 2012-08-12, at 5:05 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > We don't use zones like many cities, though that too may be coming I'm old enough to remember a TTC zone system. Its passing was a cause for much rejoicing. It's possible that technological advances would allow a re-implementation that wasn't as painful. My personal TTC annoyance is the "bulk purchase" price. When I was taking TTC to work daily, the card cost was about equivalent to paying by ride, assuming a few non-work fares during the month. It *seems* that giving them the money in a lump sum early should have some reward beyond having to avoid certain entrances. :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 12 22:53:31 2012 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 18:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: <5FD88867-ECFE-4E88-B266-C047BB4DA008-HInyCGIudOg@public.gmane.org> References: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <5FD88867-ECFE-4E88-B266-C047BB4DA008@acm.org> Message-ID: <94bcaeccc7ac0c1448a91d899054da12@webmail.look.ca> Time-based transfers When the TTC began in 1921, there were *seven* different transit systems in Toronto each requiring a fare, so to the public, free TTC transfers were a very big deal. Over the years, the TTC has worked hard to build a system that makes transfers easy, with transfer-free interchanges. Time-based transfers have been in operation for about seven years on the St. Clair streetcar. The new LRT cars for the TTC will have five doors on each 'car', and fare handling and transfers will all be revised system-wide when the LRTs come in, along probably with new 'bendy buses'. The TTC material handed out at the LRT prototaype last year said that the TTC was going to a time-based system. Duncan > On 2012-08-12, at 5:05 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> We don't use zones like many cities, though that too may be coming > > I'm old enough to remember a TTC zone system. Its passing was a cause for > much rejoicing. > It's possible that technological advances would allow a re-implementation > that wasn't as painful. > > My personal TTC annoyance is the "bulk purchase" price. When I was taking > TTC to work daily, the card cost was about equivalent to paying by ride, > assuming a few non-work fares during the month. It *seems* that giving > them the money in a lump sum early should have some reward beyond having > to avoid certain entrances. :-) > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 00:19:39 2012 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 20:19:39 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120812032238.GB23302@amber> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120812032238.GB23302@amber> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Peter King wrote: > On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 04:46:26PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > [. . .] > > Out of curiosity: Did you use the UEFI "bios" on the board, or go for > legacy-BIOS mode? And whichever path you took, was it straightforward? I haven't actually bought a new system in several years. However, I understand that machines built for Windows 8 may make it difficult to run anything other than Windows 8 so if you plan to run Linux on it, be careful! I know this is likely to be a big issue for the Linux community. I have no sense of how the hardware makers are responding or what options they are providing. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 00:49:12 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 20:49:12 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20120813004912.GA3642@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 05:05:36PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote > For better or worse, the unit of measure used by the TTC is usually > per-trip, not per-time (except for day or monthly passes) or per-kilometre > (except for trips outside the Toronto boundary). We don't use zones like > many cities, though that too may be coming once Presto allows for a more > regional approach to transit use (ie, being able to seamlessly transfer > between GO Transit and TTC within Toronto). Zones do have disadvantages. E.g. when I lived+worked in Marpole (southern city limits of Vancouver proper) the closest major shopping mall was a 10-minute bus trip just over the Oak Street bridge, whereas the nearest major mall in Vancouver was a long ride in rush hours. But it was a 2-zone fare to Richmond, versus a 1-zone fare in Vancouver. http://www.translink.ca/~/media/images/content/fares/fare_zone_map/ctlhz_metro_vancouver_fare_zone_map.ashx > What I found in Prague recently was they were able to effectively > use the time-based fares to implement a kind of zone system, with a > cheap fare for 30 minutes (ie, a local trip) and a standard fare for > two hours. Presto will enable that too if the will exists to do that. Both time-based and zone-based systems require some form of "policing" to prevent people getting on with a "short fare" and taking the long ride. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 01:01:52 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 21:01:52 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <8d0e502255ea90a701ee5b65170f5ccc.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > The driver is under no obligation to "take your word for it" that you left your pass > at home, especially since passes are transferable. Indeed it would not > surprise me if drivers were EXPLICITLY instructed not to accept such > explanations. On one TTC trip, I discovered at the station I had forgotten my wallet. The station collector at this end, and then at the other end on the return trip, both allowed me to travel without paying, for which I was most grateful. I wouldn't want to count on that sort of 'generosity of strangers', however. The zone system that we used to have in Toronto was really crude. It penalized people who lived just to one side of the zone boundary. (My grandmother used to hike some distance to cross the zone boundary rather than pay, well into her 80's.) It's an approximation of 'paying according to distance travelled'. A system that charges according to distance is much fairer, although we could have an interesting discussion on whether one should pay according to distance travelled, at all. The London Underground has raised this to a fine art, where the fare between stations is entirely variable, depending on the two stations. It's also *much* more expensive, BTW. I found myself paying the equivalent of $4 to travel a distance of three underground stations. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 01:53:05 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 21:53:05 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120812032238.GB23302@amber> Message-ID: <20120813015305.GA26260@amber> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 08:19:39PM -0400, John Martin wrote: > > Out of curiosity: Did you use the UEFI "bios" on the board, or go for > > legacy-BIOS mode? And whichever path you took, was it straightforward? > > I haven't actually bought a new system in several years. However, I > understand that machines built for Windows 8 may make it difficult to > run anything other than Windows 8 so if you plan to run Linux on it, > be careful! Yes indeed. As far as I can tell, the Asus X79 offers the choice of disabling the UEFI and booting in legacy-BIOS mode (which gets around such problems). In addition, there is a gentoo-wiki page on how to set up a system with UEFI that gives me hope that this motherboard, at least, can be set up to run Linux. Since Lennart is using it, I'm sure that it can run Debian! -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 08:25:18 2012 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 18:25:18 +1000 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: <8d0e502255ea90a701ee5b65170f5ccc.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <8d0e502255ea90a701ee5b65170f5ccc.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1344846318.2196.8.camel@turminder-xuss.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> On Sun, 2012-08-12 at 21:01 -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > The London Underground has raised this to a fine art, where the fare > between stations is entirely variable, depending on the two stations. It's > also *much* more expensive, BTW. I found myself paying the equivalent of > $4 to travel a distance of three underground stations. Except, that there's a daily cap; after ?8.40 (somewhat less if off-peak) you stop paying more. Works out to ~3 trips in a day, after that it's capped. Brilliant if you're rushing about between meetings. (Specifically it is "Oyster automatically works out the cheapest fare for all your journeys in one day so you'll never pay more than the price of a Day Travelcard*") AfC Sydney -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 16:04:28 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:04:28 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: <20120813004912.GA3642-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20120813004912.GA3642@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120813160427.GD1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 08:49:12PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Zones do have disadvantages. E.g. when I lived+worked in Marpole > (southern city limits of Vancouver proper) the closest major shopping > mall was a 10-minute bus trip just over the Oak Street bridge, whereas > the nearest major mall in Vancouver was a long ride in rush hours. But > it was a 2-zone fare to Richmond, versus a 1-zone fare in Vancouver. > http://www.translink.ca/~/media/images/content/fares/fare_zone_map/ctlhz_metro_vancouver_fare_zone_map.ashx Perhaps if zoning was done like it is in york region it would be better. The zones in york region overlap, so it is possible to do a short trip into the zone change area while still being in one zone. Only if you start and end outside the overlapping area do you have to pay the extra $1 for the second zone. > Both time-based and zone-based systems require some form of "policing" > to prevent people getting on with a "short fare" and taking the long > ride. Sure. Works fine for VIVA and lots of other systems. Same system that would prevent people from riding with no fare. After all the driver isn't checking, since that's a waste of their time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 16:09:06 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:09:06 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120810214933.GA652@amber> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120810214933.GA652@amber> Message-ID: <20120813160906.GE1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 05:49:33PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > How is it for heat/noise? I'm perfectly willing to buy a case so if there > is something you like that doesn't fit in an HTPC case... So far the noise is slightly less than my Q6600 was making (with a very good fan on it). I sure don't hear it running. Maybe if I fired up folding at home for a while on all the cores it would make a bit more noise. > Oh, and cost (roughly)? Well the ram was $200, the CPU about $300 and the motherboard about $300 as well and then another $60 or so for the fan I think. With taxes about $1000. It is crazy fast though. Only thing not working well on it with linux is the USB3 ports. Those seem to have some driver issues still. I accidentally connected the HD-PVR to a USB3 port and it took down the box within a few hours with a lot of kernel log messsages complaining. I suspect the USB3 drivers will get fixed eventually. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 16:10:23 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:10:23 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120812032238.GB23302@amber> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120812032238.GB23302@amber> Message-ID: <20120813161023.GF1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 11:22:38PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > Out of curiosity: Did you use the UEFI "bios" on the board, or go for > legacy-BIOS mode? And whichever path you took, was it straightforward? I already had a debian install on the disks and it booted up just fine, so it is using legacy bios boot mode with grub2. I am sure I could install the efi version of grup2 and boot direct. The board certainly uses UEFI, but it does support legacy boot mode as well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 16:11:51 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:11:51 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120812032238.GB23302@amber> Message-ID: <20120813161151.GG1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 08:19:39PM -0400, John Martin wrote: > I haven't actually bought a new system in several years. However, I > understand that machines built for Windows 8 may make it difficult to > run anything other than Windows 8 so if you plan to run Linux on it, > be careful! If you buy a complete system that comes with windows, then it might be a problem, although the windows 8 logo certification says there must be an option to turn of secure boot. So if the complete system you buy with windows 8 on it has a windows 8 logo, then you should be fine. No one is going to sell a motherboard that will only accept a windows install. That would be insane. > I know this is likely to be a big issue for the Linux community. I > have no sense of how the hardware makers are responding or what > options they are providing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 16:13:21 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:13:21 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120813015305.GA26260@amber> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120812032238.GB23302@amber> <20120813015305.GA26260@amber> Message-ID: <20120813161321.GH1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 09:53:05PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > Yes indeed. As far as I can tell, the Asus X79 offers the choice of disabling > the UEFI and booting in legacy-BIOS mode (which gets around such problems). > In addition, there is a gentoo-wiki page on how to set up a system with UEFI > that gives me hope that this motherboard, at least, can be set up to run > Linux. Legacy boot support is automatic. It tries to boot with UEFI's EFI boot first, and then falls back to legacy emulation booting if needed. You don't even need to know it is happening, it just works. But you might save 2 or 3 seconds of boot time if you do EFI booting directly. > Since Lennart is using it, I'm sure that it can run Debian! Oh it certainly does. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 19:48:59 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 15:48:59 -0400 Subject: I have marked communications from Field Nation and Field Solutions as SPAM. I am NOT impressed by these organizations that do nothing for me! Message-ID: I have marked communications from Field Nation and Field Solutions as SPAM. I am NOT impressed by these organizations that do nothing for me! -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 19:49:52 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 15:49:52 -0400 Subject: I have marked communications from Field Nation and Field Solutions as SPAM. I am NOT impressed by these organizations that do nothing for me! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50295A60.1050608@alteeve.ca> On 08/13/2012 03:48 PM, charles chris wrote: > I have marked communications from Field Nation and Field Solutions as > SPAM. I am NOT impressed by these organizations that do nothing for me! How is this relevant to TLUG? -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 13 19:51:40 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 15:51:40 -0400 Subject: I have marked communications from Field Nation and Field Solutions as SPAM. I am NOT impressed by these organizations that do nothing for me! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50295ACC.30308@utoronto.ca> On 12-08-13 03:48 PM, charles chris wrote: > I have marked communications from Field Nation and Field Solutions as > SPAM. I am NOT impressed by these organizations that do nothing for me! This is relevant to the mailing list and Linux? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 00:09:19 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 20:09:19 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120810204626.GB1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120814000919.GA12425@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 04:46:26PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well I just upgraded my mythtv box. So far it is running very nicely. > > I got an Asus X79 Sabertooth with an intel core-i7 3820 and a 4x8GB > pack of Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 ram. I got a SCBSK-2100 cpu fan since > it has to fit in an HTPC case and height is a slight problem > sometimes. Question: Why did you choose Socket 2011 over Socket 1155? They're both i7, butSocket 2011 motherboard is more expensive and need video card. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 01:13:52 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 21:13:52 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120813161321.GH1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120812032238.GB23302@amber> <20120813015305.GA26260@amber> <20120813161321.GH1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120814011351.GB5339@amber> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:13:21PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Legacy boot support is automatic. It tries to boot with UEFI's EFI > boot first, and then falls back to legacy emulation booting if needed. > You don't even need to know it is happening, it just works. Excellent! There are times when "it just works" is exactly what I want to hear. From looking at the specs it looks like a terrific motherboard, and I can now go shopping cheerfully for a quiet case and a good deal. I expect to have it all built by Charles at Filtech, who is very good at this sort of thing. I can't quite expect my old disks to "just work" -- being a gentoo system there is the fun of reinstalling/recompiling for a new processor and new hardware. Ahh, processor cycles to burn. Did you try the SSD/mechanical hard drive caching option? It sounded rather interesting. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 12:26:59 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 08:26:59 -0400 Subject: GPG keys management Message-ID: Hi, I came across this statement from Linux journal. Quote: I used to use only non-aging keys but have become convinced that the pros of expiration dates outweigh the cons. Therefore, I recommend that you set your key to expire after no more than 18 or 24 months. For me, one year is too short (tempis fugit!), but I doubt that a key much older than a year and a half or two years can stand up to the inevitable advances in computing power and/or factoring technology (i.e., public-key cracking methods) that will have occurred over its lifetime. End Quote: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/4892 My question, lets say I have a key that I have managed to get 100s of people to sign and in the course of doing so developed an extensive web of trust, does it make sense to dump it every two years and start over again? In another word, would you agree with above? Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 12:46:24 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 08:46:24 -0400 Subject: GPG keys management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <502A48A0.1040707@utoronto.ca> On 12-08-14 08:26 AM, William Muriithi wrote: > My question, lets say I have a key that I have managed to get 100s of > people to sign and in the course of doing so developed an extensive > web of trust, does it make sense to dump it every two years and start > over again? In another word, would you agree with above? There's no need for a new key. Edit the existing key's expiry date and resend to a keyserver. See this example for more: http://wiki.kartbuilding.net/index.php/Gnupg#Extend_GPG_Expiry Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 14:39:19 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:39:19 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120814000919.GA12425-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120814000919.GA12425@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120814143919.GI1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 08:09:19PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Question: > Why did you choose Socket 2011 over Socket 1155? They're both i7, > butSocket 2011 motherboard is more expensive and need video card. Because I want to use my existing video card anyhow, and socket 2011 have a lot more memory bandwidth and can take more ram too. Quad channel ram beats dual channel ram for performance. I was also a bit limited in that I wanted a board without onboard video and which had 1 PCI slot (I still want to use my PVR500 card for a while). I also like boards built to last, which the sabertooth line is and the Z77 sabertooh has no PCI, while the X79 has exactly one and the X79 doesn't have onboard video, but does have firewire and lots of USB and all the other useful stuff. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 14:43:23 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:43:23 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120814011351.GB5339@amber> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120812032238.GB23302@amber> <20120813015305.GA26260@amber> <20120813161321.GH1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120814011351.GB5339@amber> Message-ID: <20120814144323.GJ1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 09:13:52PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > Excellent! There are times when "it just works" is exactly what I want to > hear. From looking at the specs it looks like a terrific motherboard, and > I can now go shopping cheerfully for a quiet case and a good deal. I expect > to have it all built by Charles at Filtech, who is very good at this sort > of thing. > > I can't quite expect my old disks to "just work" -- being a gentoo system > there is the fun of reinstalling/recompiling for a new processor and new > hardware. Ahh, processor cycles to burn. But it being the latest CPU will easily run all your existing code. Now if you want to optimize the last 0.1% out of it, then sure you can recompile again. > Did you try the SSD/mechanical hard drive caching option? It sounded rather > interesting. I did not. I expect it requires a windows only driver to work. I run root on a raid1 hardware mirror on a pair of 120GB SSDs and I run my mythtv recordings on a software raid5 over four 1TB WD blacks. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 15:07:19 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 11:07:19 -0400 Subject: Old (10+ years) used Dell Pentium 4 Laptops for sale at $140.00 each, tax included. Message-ID: Old (10+ years) used Dell Pentium 4 Laptops for sale at $140.00 each, tax included. 1.8 GHz, 512 RAM, 30 GB HD, DVD ROM, CD burner, wireless, working battery (short battery life) AC adapter, modem, Ethernet port, at least 1 USB port Comes with rescue kit and 1 year warranty Operating system, Linux Mint 9 LXDE on these laptops, CAN DO the following: Connect to Wireless Internet Play on-line flash games Play on-line DivX and Xvid movies YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Skype (without webcam) and Web mail Download torrents, YouTube videos and convert to MP3 IRC Chat with your Yahoo or Windows Live account Do basic word processing, spreadsheet and presentation Edit pictures and videos Burn, copy and rip CD NOT DVD unless you attach an external DVD burner via USB Play movies on DVD disks Copy music to your iPod Linux Mint 9 LXDE on these laptops CANNOT Do the following: Play most commercial video games Download full length movies because the hard disk is only 30 GB. You may attach larger external hard disk via USB. Run many commercial software designed for Windows, especially DJ, accounting and graphics applications Install most peripheral devices like printers and web cams Contact Chris of Drpcdr.ca at 647 453 3327 -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 15:32:18 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 11:32:18 -0400 Subject: Old (10+ years) used Dell Pentium 4 Laptops for sale at $140.00 each, tax included. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <502A6F82.1030603@alteeve.ca> On 08/14/2012 11:07 AM, charles chris wrote: > Old (10+ years) used Dell Pentium 4 Laptops for sale at $140.00 each, > tax included. > This isn't kijiji or craigslist. -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 15:35:59 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 11:35:59 -0400 Subject: CDE Unix desktop open sourced In-Reply-To: <20120812020136.5621852f@herring_sucker.example.net> References: <20120812020136.5621852f@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: And only 12 years too late.... - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 15:53:49 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 11:53:49 -0400 Subject: bootable USB flash memory sticks for installation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <502A748D.4060506@ve3syb.ca> On 12-08-07 11:39 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > As far as I can make out, there are several schemes for making a bootable > USB stick from a .iso, and I don't understand why. > > I think some use grub and some (more?) use syslinux. [snip] > Typically the programs to create bootable USBs don't explain what they are > doing. They can have mysterious failure modes too. When I was working on a project where I needed to make bootable USB devices I first tried using syslinux. The results were inconsistent. Sometimes the device would boot and sometimes it wouldn't. Partly due to the inconsistent results I got and also because I wanted to do the whole setup process from Linux I gave up on syslinux and tried grub. With grub I got consistent results. I never tried any of the other scripts mentioned here. I wrote up a web page detailing the steps I used to make a bootable USB device. The process is not that different from making a bootable hard drive. You can find my notes at http://www.ve3syb.ca/software/bootableusb.html and they include a few comments about remastering an ISO file for use on a memory stick. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 15:54:00 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 11:54:00 -0400 Subject: GPG keys management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 8:26 AM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hi, > > I came across this statement from Linux journal. > > Quote: > I used to use only non-aging keys but have become convinced that the > pros of expiration dates outweigh the cons. Therefore, I recommend > that you set your key to expire after no more than 18 or 24 months. > For me, one year is too short (tempis fugit!), but I doubt that a key > much older than a year and a half or two years can stand up to the > inevitable advances in computing power and/or factoring technology > (i.e., public-key cracking methods) that will have occurred over its > lifetime. > End Quote: > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/4892 > > My question, lets say I have a key that I have managed to get 100s of > people to sign and in the course of doing so developed an extensive > web of trust, does it make sense to dump it every two years and start > over again? In another word, would you agree with above? For the cases where I have developed *purposeful* webs of trust, it's fine to re-exchange keys every couple of years. The practical case for that about which I have Truly Cared has been in dealing with escrow services, and it's not overly troublesome to rebuild "the web" periodically. (Well, it *is* troublesome, as such vendors seem exceedingly procedurally-bound, and not in ways that involve them seeming to much understand cryptography or WOT. But it's not troublesome in any way in which initial setup isn't.) The notion of using broad WOT has never really taken off. On any given technical mailing list, I find it reasonably likely that I can expect to see *a* participant who signs all of his messages, and there's just enough interest in such that any time a new mail client comes along, someone builds an add-on to make it possible to GPG-sign their messages. But the notion of people generally checking signatures just doesn't happen. As consequence, the "value" of that is more of being a hobbyist that's keen on having hundreds of members of their WOT to prove that they can, as opposed to it being really useful. The one place where signatures get used more broadly is by signers of Debian packages. And there, there is a sufficiently giant set of developers that it's needful to have policies to cope with key expiry, and hence, for them, while too-rapid expiry might be bad, periodic expiry is a protection against keys getting cracked, and is somewhat more a feature than a bug. Note that it's NOT forcibly the case that all keys need to get dumped each time and re-negotiated from scratch. It's absolutely reasonable for me to use a new key to sign all the keys I have come to trust, and people *do* get into policies of accepting replacement keys when signed by the previously trusted key. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 15:59:02 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 11:59:02 -0400 Subject: CDE Unix desktop open sourced In-Reply-To: References: <20120812020136.5621852f@herring_sucker.example.net> Message-ID: <502A75C6.700@ve3syb.ca> On 12-08-14 11:35 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > And only 12 years too > late.... Wow. That takes me back. I haven't run Linux with a Motif style look/feel in years. I don't know if CDE is all that relevant or gets much interest these days but it can't hurt for it to be out in the wild. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 16:54:53 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 12:54:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bootable USB flash memory sticks for installation In-Reply-To: <502A748D.4060506-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <502A748D.4060506@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: | From: Kevin Cozens | When I was working on a project where I needed to make bootable USB devices I | first tried using syslinux. The results were inconsistent. Thanks for that info. Negative results are so rarely reported. | With grub I got consistent results. I never tried any of the other scripts | mentioned here. I wrote up a web page detailing the steps I used to make a | bootable USB device. Thanks. What .iso distros worked when transplanted (remastered) to ext2? Do they all? Or must they be using grub to start with? | The process is not that different from making a bootable | hard drive. That certainly should be true. Not that I've done that either. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 14 19:33:58 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:33:58 -0400 Subject: bootable USB flash memory sticks for installation In-Reply-To: References: <502A748D.4060506@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <502AA826.30308@ve3syb.ca> On 12-08-14 12:54 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > What .iso distros worked when transplanted (remastered) to ext2? Do > they all? Or must they be using grub to start with? I only tried a couple of Ubuntu or Debian ISOs. I think pretty much any Linux, or similar, distro should work if the CD was bootable to start with. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 04:42:30 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 00:42:30 -0400 Subject: "wireless carrier lost" -> complete network shutdown Message-ID: <20120815044230.GA13786@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi, I have D-Link DIR-655 wireless router, though I think it's Linux issue. I'm using kernel 3.5.1, but I had same problem with 3.2 and 3.4 as well. Time to time, I get "carrier lost" message on "wlan0", and then "dhcpcd" exits, followed by shutdown of all network connections, even statically assigned wired "eth0" is down. /var/log/debug: Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.507650] ieee80211 phy0: wlan0: No probe response from AP 00:18:e7:f6:6d:2e after 500ms, disconnecting. /var/log/message: Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 dhcpcd[1896]: wlan0: carrier lost Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.567663] cfg80211: Calling CRDA to update world regulatory domain Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981577] cfg80211: World regulatory domain updated: Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981582] cfg80211: (start_freq - end_freq @ bandwidth), (max_antenna_gain, max_eirp) Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981585] cfg80211: (2402000 KHz - 2472000 KHz @ 40000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm) Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981587] cfg80211: (2457000 KHz - 2482000 KHz @ 20000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm) Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981589] cfg80211: (2474000 KHz - 2494000 KHz @ 20000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm) Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981591] cfg80211: (5170000 KHz - 5250000 KHz @ 40000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm) Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981592] cfg80211: (5735000 KHz - 5835000 KHz @ 40000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm) Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 dhcpcd[11808]: sending signal 1 to pid 1896 Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 dhcpcd[1896]: received SIGHUP, releasing Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 dhcpcd[1896]: wlan0: removing interface Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 dhcpcd[11808]: waiting for pid 1896 to exit Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 kernel: [ 6093.291961] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not ready Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 kernel: [ 6093.529575] r8169 0000:01:00.0: eth0: link down Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 kernel: [ 6093.530422] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth0: link is not ready Aug 15 00:05:18 node1 kernel: [ 6098.052918] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not ready Has anyone encountered this kind of issue? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 10:17:11 2012 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 07:17:11 -0300 Subject: "wireless carrier lost" -> complete network shutdown In-Reply-To: <20120815044230.GA13786-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120815044230.GA13786@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: I saw a fea people with a similar problem, but I'm not sure if it's really the same situation, so let me ask you: 1- You have the same problem everywhere? I mean, on different places with different APs? 2- What are you using to manage your network connections? netcfg, networkmanager, wicd, ...? 3- If the answer for the first question is that you're having this trouble with only one connection (AP), is this one using WEP, WPA, WPA2.. ? best, =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 1:42 AM, William Park wrote: > Hi, > > I have D-Link DIR-655 wireless router, though I think it's Linux issue. > I'm using kernel 3.5.1, but I had same problem with 3.2 and 3.4 as well. > > Time to time, I get "carrier lost" message on "wlan0", and then "dhcpcd" > exits, followed by shutdown of all network connections, even statically > assigned wired "eth0" is down. > > /var/log/debug: > > Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.507650] ieee80211 phy0: wlan0: No > probe response from AP 00:18:e7:f6:6d:2e after 500ms, disconnecting. > > /var/log/message: > > Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 dhcpcd[1896]: wlan0: carrier lost > Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.567663] cfg80211: Calling CRDA to > update world regulatory domain > Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981577] cfg80211: World > regulatory domain updated: > Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981582] cfg80211: (start_freq - > end_freq @ bandwidth), (max_antenna_gain, max_eirp) > Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981585] cfg80211: (2402000 KHz > - 2472000 KHz @ 40000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm) > Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981587] cfg80211: (2457000 KHz > - 2482000 KHz @ 20000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm) > Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981589] cfg80211: (2474000 KHz > - 2494000 KHz @ 20000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm) > Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981591] cfg80211: (5170000 KHz > - 5250000 KHz @ 40000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm) > Aug 15 00:05:09 node1 kernel: [ 6089.981592] cfg80211: (5735000 KHz > - 5835000 KHz @ 40000 KHz), (300 mBi, 2000 mBm) > Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 dhcpcd[11808]: sending signal 1 to pid 1896 > Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 dhcpcd[1896]: received SIGHUP, releasing > Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 dhcpcd[1896]: wlan0: removing interface > Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 dhcpcd[11808]: waiting for pid 1896 to exit > Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 kernel: [ 6093.291961] IPv6: > ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not ready > Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 kernel: [ 6093.529575] r8169 0000:01:00.0: eth0: > link down > Aug 15 00:05:13 node1 kernel: [ 6093.530422] IPv6: > ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): eth0: link is not ready > Aug 15 00:05:18 node1 kernel: [ 6098.052918] IPv6: > ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not ready > > Has anyone encountered this kind of issue? > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 11:31:08 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 07:31:08 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? Message-ID: I haven't been down there in ages: http://www.blogto.com/deadpool/2012/08/linuxcaffe_looks_distinctly_deadpool/ Can anyone shed a little light? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 11:38:03 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 07:38:03 -0400 Subject: Pirate Box... Message-ID: Last evening I brought a portable pirate box (wireless file server) to the meeting to see what would happen. The details about the pirate box software can be seen here : http://wiki.daviddarts.com/PirateBox The hardware that I used consisted of a TP-Link MR3020 router (http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?model=TL-MR3020) with Open-WRT software (https://openwrt.org/) and then the Pirate box software installed on top of that. I bought the TP-Link MR3020 at Canada Computers. For a power supply I used a GoalZero Guide 10 Plus battery pack ( http://www.goalzero.com/shop/p/133/Guide-10-Plus-Battery-Pack/2:8/ ). The neat thing about this is that it can be recharged either from a wall outlet or an optional solar panel (and they offer multiple sizes of panels). I have not yet run the Goal Zero to exhaustion, but from last evening's test, I know I can run the unit for 3.5+ hours without getting the low battery warning. I bought the GoalZero Guide 10 Plus at a Bass Pro Shop (http://www.basspro.com/) in Denver, CO. Bass Pro also has a shop in Vaughan (but I have no idea if the Canadian shop carries these battery packs). But conceptually, with the right solar panel, battery pack, etc... you could build a file server that could run effectively forever off the grid.... File storage was to the smallest physical 16GB USB key I could find at the local computer shops (could have been just about any capacity, but 16GB keys are inexpensive enough these days...). Case was an old 10 CD carry case (bought at a dollar store). The fit was a little tighter than I was happy with, so I will be looking for another slightly larger case. Questions? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 11:47:07 2012 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 08:47:07 -0300 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Strange.. I'm not from Toronto (brazilian) so I can't visit the place, but I'm always (almost every day) online on their channel #linuxcaffe (freenode) and didn't see anyone talking about that. If this is true, I'll be a little disappointed. I'll visit Toronto next year (January) and I was planning to visit the place. :/ =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > I haven't been down there in ages: > > > http://www.blogto.com/deadpool/2012/08/linuxcaffe_looks_distinctly_deadpool/ > > Can anyone shed a little light? > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 12:03:08 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 08:03:08 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> Giles Orr wrote: > I haven't been down there in ages: > Me either. As I live in Mississauga, it's a bit off my path. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 12:08:35 2012 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 09:08:35 -0300 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <502B8FFC.9080609-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> Message-ID: Their site (linuxcaffe.ca) is also down. But the domain is not expired: Domain name: linuxcaffe.ca Domain status: registered Creation date: 2004/08/25 Expiry date: 2012/08/25 Updated date: 2011/08/27 =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 9:03 AM, James Knott wrote: > Giles Orr wrote: > >> I haven't been down there in ages: >> >> > Me either. As I live in Mississauga, it's a bit off my path. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tehowe-lJUvcdpYuyfIEIWhD7vHkg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 13:44:06 2012 From: tehowe-lJUvcdpYuyfIEIWhD7vHkg at public.gmane.org (Todd Howe) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 09:44:06 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> I'm really going to miss it. I think I moved into the neighbourhood just after the cafe's heydey as a hub for Linux events but I credit the visibility of the Linux 'brand' there every day as the final push that inspired me to try Wubi, and finally migrate all my devices. I can't say I picked up a lot of Linux info there but it became my office when I had to be out of the house. (My wife does counselling). These days I feel a little homeless during the day as a result oO From the little I've pieced together, Dave got busy with his film work and he passed the baton to a younger member of his family. Despite the new habit of their playing gangsta rap mid-day, the cafe still seemed to be flourishing, so not sure what precipitated the BS 'we're temporarily renovating' signs. The comments in the BlogTO article indicate the lease has already been transferred so sadly it looks like it's the end of an era. Are attachments allowed? I could snap a pic of what it looks like today if anyone's interested. Nice meeting folks last night btw Todd ----- Original message ----- > Their site (linuxcaffe.ca) is also down. > > But the domain is not expired: > > Domain name:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? linuxcaffe.ca > Domain status:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? registered > Creation date:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2004/08/25 > Expiry date:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2012/08/25 > Updated date:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2011/08/27 > > =================================================== > > Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib > > Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC > Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 > Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil > Celular: +55 085 87620983 > Certifica??es: ITIL > V3 >? | CSM | LPI-C1 | > LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell > CLA > Minha Pessoa: Blog > Projetos: Tux-CE | > Archlinux-br >? | Chakra | KDE Brasil > | TLUG | > PUG-CE > > =================================================== > > > Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. > N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). > Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a > dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 9:03 AM, James Knott > wrote: > > > Giles Orr wrote: > > > > > I haven't been down there in ages: > > > > > > > > Me either.? As I live in Mississauga, it's a bit off my path. > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > > http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 14:24:14 2012 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 07:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> Message-ID: <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Oddly enough you need to have a passport to have a .ca domain name for your privately owned company. That might be the reason their site is down. EK ________________________________ From: Todd Howe To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 9:44:06 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: RIP Linuxcaffe? I'm really going to miss it. I think I moved into the neighbourhood just after the cafe's heydey as a hub for Linux events but I credit the visibility of the Linux 'brand' there every day as the final push that inspired me to try Wubi, and finally migrate all my devices. I can't say I picked up a lot of Linux info there but it became my office when I had to be out of the house. (My wife does counselling). These days I feel a little homeless during the day as a result oO? From the little I've pieced together, Dave got busy with his film work and he passed the baton to a younger member of his family. Despite the new habit of their playing gangsta rap mid-day, the cafe still seemed to be flourishing, so not sure what precipitated the BS 'we're temporarily renovating' signs. The comments in the BlogTO article indicate the lease has already been transferred so sadly it looks like it's the end of an era. Are attachments allowed? I could snap a pic of what it looks like today if anyone's interested. Nice meeting folks last night btw Todd ----- Original message ----- > Their site (linuxcaffe.ca) is also down. > > But the domain is not expired: > > Domain name:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? linuxcaffe.ca > Domain status:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? registered > Creation date:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 2004/08/25 > Expiry date:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 2012/08/25 > Updated date:? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? 2011/08/27 > > =================================================== > > Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib > > Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC > Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 > Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil > Celular: +55 085 87620983 > Certifica??es: ITIL > V3 >?? | CSM | LPI-C1 | > LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell > CLA > Minha Pessoa: Blog > Projetos: Tux-CE | > Archlinux-br >?? | Chakra | KDE Brasil > | TLUG | > PUG-CE > > =================================================== > > > Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. > N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). > Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a > dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 9:03 AM, James Knott > wrote: > > > Giles Orr wrote: > > > > > I haven't been down there in ages: > > > > > > > > Me either.?? As I live in Mississauga, it's a bit off my path. > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? ? ?? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > > http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From do.ming.lum-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 14:35:20 2012 From: do.ming.lum-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Do-Ming Lum) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 10:35:20 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I meant to ask about this. I was down in the old neighbourhood a number of times in the last couple of weeks, and saw that the building was closed up and the windows papered over. If they are indeed closed, I will miss them -- they were a great place for tea, especially in the dead of winter. I got an early Ubuntu distro from them. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > I haven't been down there in ages: > > > http://www.blogto.com/deadpool/2012/08/linuxcaffe_looks_distinctly_deadpool/ > > Can anyone shed a little light? > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 15:11:20 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:11:20 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo-ysga9ygs+gUA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1345043480.2981.1.camel@tecumseth3> On Wed, 2012-08-15 at 07:24 -0700, E K wrote: > Oddly enough you need to have a passport to have a .ca domain name for > your privately owned company. That might be the reason their site is > down. Are you sure that's not old information? Nobody wanted to see a passport for my .ca domain. Things I've heard have led me to believe that requirements were more stringent many years ago. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 15:14:05 2012 From: alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:14:05 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <1345043480.2981.1.camel@tecumseth3> References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1345043480.2981.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: When I worked in the domain industry (up until May 2011), there was no mention of needing a passport to register a .CA domain. That may have been the case previously, but it is no longer a requirement. It's different if you're changing the information on a domain (i.e. your e-mail address is no longer valid), but registering it is a much simpler process. Alex Gabriel "Someone has to take a stand against evil, why should it not be me?" On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Mel Wilson wrote: > On Wed, 2012-08-15 at 07:24 -0700, E K wrote: > > Oddly enough you need to have a passport to have a .ca domain name for > > your privately owned company. That might be the reason their site is > > down. > > Are you sure that's not old information? Nobody wanted to see a > passport for my .ca domain. Things I've heard have led me to believe > that requirements were more stringent many years ago. > > Mel. > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 15:21:37 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:21:37 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> Message-ID: <1345044097.2981.5.camel@tecumseth3> On Wed, 2012-08-15 at 09:44 -0400, Todd Howe wrote: > [ ... ] From the little I've pieced together, Dave got busy with his film work [ ... ] Good for Dave, if that's the story. Bad for me. My other source of custard tarts .. well they're just not as good. And I had the intention of ambushing Dave to ask how an microcontroller could talk to a DMX-512 lighting desk. Not at the well-documented bit level, but in terms of what the pieces of equipment might have to say to each other. Oh well. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 15:25:06 2012 From: alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:25:06 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's a shame that this does seem to be an accurate story. I'd only been there once, but I rather enjoyed the atmosphere and the coffee. Hopefully someone else picks up the gauntlet in the city, and opens a similar venue. How about TLUG Caffe? Alex Gabriel "Someone has to take a stand against evil, why should it not be me?" On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > I haven't been down there in ages: > > > http://www.blogto.com/deadpool/2012/08/linuxcaffe_looks_distinctly_deadpool/ > > Can anyone shed a little light? > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 15:32:34 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:32:34 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Alex Gabriel wrote: > It's a shame that this does seem to be an accurate story. I'd only been > there once, but I rather enjoyed the atmosphere and the coffee. Hopefully > someone else picks up the gauntlet in the city, and opens a similar venue. > How about TLUG Caffe? It had a fascinating sensibility; I think it would require David Patrick to duplicate it, and I'm not even sure that duplicating it would necessarily be a good idea. The followup probably ought to head down the "trying to be good with coffee" side of the road. (Linuxcaffe didn't do *bad* coffee, but Sam James down the street was THE nearby coffee place!) Almost certainly starts with ZPM Nocturne , as an "open source cappuccino machine." But that's just a starting point. And the project would need a person with a vision. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 15:33:12 2012 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 12:33:12 -0300 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great... TLUG Caffe, by Alex Gabriel. [kalib at tuxcaverna ~]$ whois tlugcaffe.ca Domain name: tlugcaffe.ca Domain status: available Go for it dude. ;] =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Alex Gabriel wrote: > It's a shame that this does seem to be an accurate story. I'd only been > there once, but I rather enjoyed the atmosphere and the coffee. Hopefully > someone else picks up the gauntlet in the city, and opens a similar venue. > How about TLUG Caffe? > > Alex Gabriel > "Someone has to take a stand against evil, why should it not be me?" > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > >> I haven't been down there in ages: >> >> >> http://www.blogto.com/deadpool/2012/08/linuxcaffe_looks_distinctly_deadpool/ >> >> Can anyone shed a little light? >> >> -- >> Giles >> http://www.gilesorr.com/ >> gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 15:40:48 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:40:48 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <502BC300.8020001@rogers.com> Alex Gabriel wrote: > It's a shame that this does seem to be an accurate story. I'd only > been there once, but I rather enjoyed the atmosphere and the coffee. > Hopefully someone else picks up the gauntlet in the city, and opens a > similar venue. How about TLUG Caffe? Or maybe a Geek restaurant. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 15:49:11 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:49:11 -0400 Subject: "wireless carrier lost" -> complete network shutdown In-Reply-To: References: <20120815044230.GA13786@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120815154910.GA13120@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 07:17:11AM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > I saw a fea people with a similar problem, but I'm not sure if it's really > the same situation, so let me ask you: > > 1- You have the same problem everywhere? I mean, on different places with > different APs? It's home machine, so it connects to only that router (D-Link DIR-655). > 2- What are you using to manage your network connections? netcfg, > networkmanager, wicd, ...? I'm running Slackware-13.1 (about 2 years old) which came with KDE-4.4.3. I notice now that "wicd" is running. Strange, because I'm pretty sure "wicd" wasn't part of original Slackware. > 3- If the answer for the first question is that you're having this trouble > with only one connection (AP), is this one using WEP, WPA, WPA2.. ? It's using WPA2. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 15:55:02 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:55:02 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120815155502.GB13120@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:25:06AM -0400, Alex Gabriel wrote: > Hopefully someone else picks up the gauntlet in the city, and opens a > similar venue. How about TLUG Caffe? Well, the capital budgeting will require some interesting leverage! :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 15:56:50 2012 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 12:56:50 -0300 Subject: "wireless carrier lost" -> complete network shutdown In-Reply-To: <20120815154910.GA13120-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120815044230.GA13786@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120815154910.GA13120@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: When you say "I'm running Slackware-13.1 (about 2 years old) which came with KDE-4.4.3.", you mean the OS still the same? Without updates? Still with kde 4.4.3 and all the rest? For KDE, wicd is really better than network-manager, in my opinion. I would suggest you to remove your WPA2 protection, just for a single test and see if the same problem happens. Also, you could work as usual but running "tail -f /var/log/messages" to see what's going on when your interfaces get killed. If you say you don't remember about having wicd installed, perhaps you have some kind of cinflict between network manager and wicd, but I'm not sure about that. You need to check about this? Do you have network manager installed too? Could you check the running services? wicd is running? networkmanager is stoped? =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:49 PM, William Park wrote: > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 07:17:11AM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > I saw a fea people with a similar problem, but I'm not sure if it's > really > > the same situation, so let me ask you: > > > > 1- You have the same problem everywhere? I mean, on different places with > > different APs? > > It's home machine, so it connects to only that router (D-Link DIR-655). > > > 2- What are you using to manage your network connections? netcfg, > > networkmanager, wicd, ...? > > I'm running Slackware-13.1 (about 2 years old) which came with > KDE-4.4.3. I notice now that "wicd" is running. Strange, because I'm > pretty sure "wicd" wasn't part of original Slackware. > > > 3- If the answer for the first question is that you're having this > trouble > > with only one connection (AP), is this one using WEP, WPA, WPA2.. ? > > It's using WPA2. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 15:59:45 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:59:45 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1345043480.2981.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: This is the Internet, These things are easy to verify. There is required proof of Canadian presence for the owners of a .ca domain, proof of citizenship is one way of satisfying the requirement. The official policy is in a PDF, but there is also a simple linkdescribing it. - Evan On 15 August 2012 11:14, Alex Gabriel wrote: > When I worked in the domain industry (up until May 2011), there was no > mention of needing a passport to register a .CA domain. That may have been > the case previously, but it is no longer a requirement. It's different if > you're changing the information on a domain (i.e. your e-mail address is no > longer valid), but registering it is a much simpler process. > > Alex Gabriel > "Someone has to take a stand against evil, why should it not be me?" > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Mel Wilson wrote: > >> On Wed, 2012-08-15 at 07:24 -0700, E K wrote: >> > Oddly enough you need to have a passport to have a .ca domain name for >> > your privately owned company. That might be the reason their site is >> > down. >> >> Are you sure that's not old information? Nobody wanted to see a >> passport for my .ca domain. Things I've heard have led me to believe >> that requirements were more stringent many years ago. >> >> Mel. >> >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 16:21:59 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 12:21:59 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: <20120813160427.GD1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20120813004912.GA3642@waltdnes.org> <20120813160427.GD1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 13 August 2012 12:04, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 08:49:12PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > Zones do have disadvantages. E.g. when I lived+worked in Marpole > > (southern city limits of Vancouver proper) the closest major shopping > > mall was a 10-minute bus trip just over the Oak Street bridge, whereas > > the nearest major mall in Vancouver was a long ride in rush hours. But > > it was a 2-zone fare to Richmond, versus a 1-zone fare in Vancouver. > That's more a matter of crossing a municipal boundary, a jurisdictional issue than merely distance travelled. The TTC has multiple routes north that cross Steeles and collect another fare at that point. That's because the TTC, north of Steeles, is essentially a contractor of York Region Transit and must collect fares on their behalf. (I believe that YRT fares and transfers are accepted on TTC buses north of Steeles). In fact, since TTC fares are less than YRT, a token alone isn't enough for travel north of Steeles, you have to add 20 cents. I can't speak for BC Transit. but from Finch Avenue it costs more to get to Highway 7 than to go downtown because of the border crossing. There is also a single bus that links Lawrence West station with Westwood Mall in Missisauga, and west of the airport the TTC acts as a Mississauga Transit bus. http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/GTA_Zone_Fares.jsp > Both time-based and zone-based systems require some form of "policing" > > to prevent people getting on with a "short fare" and taking the long > > ride. > > Sure. Works fine for VIVA and lots of other systems. > It's been in use on GO trains for quite a while. In fact, the concept of having "proof of payment" on board, allowing people to be able to get on a vehicle through the back doors, and being occasionally patrolled by people checking proof and issuing offense notices (like parking tickets) for free riders is not new to the TTC. It's been in effect on the Queen streetcar for a while. http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Proof_of_payment.jsp This is the system used in many european transit systems. If you have a one-trip ticket, you validate it at the beginning of your trip, at a little time-stamp machine on all buses and subway platforms. It separates fare collection/enforcement from driving, which is a Good Thing. (Under Toronto POP, if you want to use a one-trip fare you still need to go to the front and get a transfer which is your 'proof'.) - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 16:40:53 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 12:40:53 -0400 Subject: "wireless carrier lost" -> complete network shutdown In-Reply-To: References: <20120815044230.GA13786@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120815154910.GA13120@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20120815164053.GA14605@node1.opengeometry.net> Thanks for prompt reply. Slackware does security updates, but it doesn't do updates just because version number got changed. So, yes, KDE is 4.4.3. I don't know how "wicd" got installed on my system. I didn't know what it was until recently. It seems that it showed up as Slackware package around May 2012. Before that, Slackware didn't have any network manager, because I remember I had to configure "wpa_supplicant" manually so that "dhcpcd" can connect to and get IP from the wireless router. I'll try disabling "wicd". Newer Slackware (soon to be released) will be better at this, I'm sure. -- William On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:56:50PM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > When you say "I'm running Slackware-13.1 (about 2 years old) which > came with KDE-4.4.3.", you mean the OS still the same? Without > updates? Still with kde 4.4.3 and all the rest? > > For KDE, wicd is really better than network-manager, in my opinion. > > I would suggest you to remove your WPA2 protection, just for a single > test and see if the same problem happens. Also, you could work as > usual but running "tail -f /var/log/messages" to see what's going on > when your interfaces get killed. > > If you say you don't remember about having wicd installed, perhaps you > have some kind of cinflict between network manager and wicd, but I'm > not sure about that. > > You need to check about this? Do you have network manager installed > too? > > Could you check the running services? wicd is running? networkmanager > is stoped? > > =================================================== > Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib > =================================================== > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:49 PM, William Park wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 07:17:11AM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > > I saw a fea people with a similar problem, but I'm not sure if > > > it's really the same situation, so let me ask you: > > > > > > 1- You have the same problem everywhere? I mean, on different > > > places with different APs? > > > > It's home machine, so it connects to only that router (D-Link > > DIR-655). > > > > > 2- What are you using to manage your network connections? netcfg, > > > networkmanager, wicd, ...? > > > > I'm running Slackware-13.1 (about 2 years old) which came with > > KDE-4.4.3. I notice now that "wicd" is running. Strange, because > > I'm pretty sure "wicd" wasn't part of original Slackware. > > > > > 3- If the answer for the first question is that you're having this > > > trouble with only one connection (AP), is this one using WEP, WPA, > > > WPA2.. ? > > > > It's using WPA2. > > -- > > William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 16:52:14 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 12:52:14 -0400 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver Message-ID: Hi all. I've taken delivery of a Nexus 7 tablet and am very happy with it (questions welcomed). One thing that I was hoping to do, when travelling with it, was to have some method of using wired Ethernet with it (typically, when staying in a hotel room that has a wired Ethernet drop but poor or no in-room wifi, this has happened a few times). Plan A is to use the USB "on the go" spec to attach an Ethernet-to-USB connector. Plan B is to get a cheap wifi router , which is more expensive and much bulkier. I've taken possession of item A, a $3 thing from eBay, cheap enough that it didn't work I would toss it. When I plug it in and run `lsusb` on the Nexus 7, the hardware is seen but there's no driver. I get Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0fe6:9700 When I plug the same device into Ubuntu, it works fine and from `lsusb` I get Bus 002 Device 011: ID 0fe6:9700 Kontron (Industrial Computer Source / ICS Advent) DM9601 Fast Ethernet Adapter I've been able to find Linux drivers for thisand in fact it's been made to work with the Motorola Xoom and Asus Transformer . Could some kind person here help me turn this driver into something usable on the stock N7 kernel? Thanks! -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 16:54:08 2012 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 13:54:08 -0300 Subject: "wireless carrier lost" -> complete network shutdown In-Reply-To: <20120815164053.GA14605-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120815044230.GA13786@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120815154910.GA13120@node1.opengeometry.net> <20120815164053.GA14605@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Let us know if you get things working by disabling wicd. =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM | LPI-C1 | LPI-C2 | LPI-C3 | Novell CLA Minha Pessoa: Blog Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 1:40 PM, William Park wrote: > Thanks for prompt reply. Slackware does security updates, but it > doesn't do updates just because version number got changed. So, yes, > KDE is 4.4.3. > > I don't know how "wicd" got installed on my system. I didn't know what > it was until recently. It seems that it showed up as Slackware package > around May 2012. Before that, Slackware didn't have any network > manager, because I remember I had to configure "wpa_supplicant" manually > so that "dhcpcd" can connect to and get IP from the wireless router. > > I'll try disabling "wicd". > > Newer Slackware (soon to be released) will be better at this, I'm sure. > -- > William > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:56:50PM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > When you say "I'm running Slackware-13.1 (about 2 years old) which > > came with KDE-4.4.3.", you mean the OS still the same? Without > > updates? Still with kde 4.4.3 and all the rest? > > > > For KDE, wicd is really better than network-manager, in my opinion. > > > > I would suggest you to remove your WPA2 protection, just for a single > > test and see if the same problem happens. Also, you could work as > > usual but running "tail -f /var/log/messages" to see what's going on > > when your interfaces get killed. > > > > If you say you don't remember about having wicd installed, perhaps you > > have some kind of cinflict between network manager and wicd, but I'm > > not sure about that. > > > > You need to check about this? Do you have network manager installed > > too? > > > > Could you check the running services? wicd is running? networkmanager > > is stoped? > > > > =================================================== > > Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib > > =================================================== > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:49 PM, William Park >wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 07:17:11AM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > > > I saw a fea people with a similar problem, but I'm not sure if > > > > it's really the same situation, so let me ask you: > > > > > > > > 1- You have the same problem everywhere? I mean, on different > > > > places with different APs? > > > > > > It's home machine, so it connects to only that router (D-Link > > > DIR-655). > > > > > > > 2- What are you using to manage your network connections? netcfg, > > > > networkmanager, wicd, ...? > > > > > > I'm running Slackware-13.1 (about 2 years old) which came with > > > KDE-4.4.3. I notice now that "wicd" is running. Strange, because > > > I'm pretty sure "wicd" wasn't part of original Slackware. > > > > > > > 3- If the answer for the first question is that you're having this > > > > trouble with only one connection (AP), is this one using WEP, WPA, > > > > WPA2.. ? > > > > > > It's using WPA2. > > > -- > > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 16:55:49 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 12:55:49 -0400 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <502BD495.8030301@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Plan B is to get a cheap wifi router > , which is more expensive and > much bulkier. > There are portable access points available from Asus & D-Link. They're small devices that come with a carrying case. They work well and also have other functions. For example, the Asus WL-330gE can be used to share a hot spot. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 17:10:09 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 13:10:09 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20120813004912.GA3642@waltdnes.org> <20120813160427.GD1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120815171009.GK1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:21:59PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > That's more a matter of crossing a municipal boundary, a jurisdictional > issue than merely distance travelled. > The TTC has multiple routes north that cross Steeles and collect another > fare at that point. That's because the TTC, north of Steeles, is > essentially a contractor of York Region Transit and must collect fares on > their behalf. (I believe that YRT fares and transfers are accepted on TTC > buses north of Steeles). They are, but of course if you use Presto in YRT, then you have no way to transfer to a TTC bus in york region because the TTC busses are not equiped to accept presto and hence can't tell you have already paid for your 2 hour fare. > In fact, since TTC fares are less than YRT, a token alone isn't enough for > travel north of Steeles, you have to add 20 cents. Hmm, when did they get out of sync? They used to be the same amount. > I can't speak for BC Transit. but from Finch Avenue it costs more to get to > Highway 7 than to go downtown because of the border crossing. Actually if you take a YRT bus from finch you only pay york region fare to go from finch to highway 7. YRT busses can't drop you off while heading north into york region and they can't pick you up south of steeles while heading into Toronto but they don't charge an extra fare to get you there (of course you also can't transfer to a TTC bus, so you would be paying the extra fare when you do that). TTC busses also go much further north of steeles than YRT busses go south. > There is also a single bus that links Lawrence West station with Westwood > Mall in Missisauga, and west of the airport the TTC acts as a Mississauga > Transit bus. > http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/GTA_Zone_Fares.jsp > > It's been in use on GO trains for quite a while. > > In fact, the concept of having "proof of payment" on board, allowing people > to be able to get on a vehicle through the back doors, and being > occasionally patrolled by people checking proof and issuing offense notices > (like parking tickets) for free riders is not new to the TTC. It's been in > effect on the Queen streetcar for a while. > http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Proof_of_payment.jsp > > This is the system used in many european transit systems. If you have a > one-trip ticket, you validate it at the beginning of your trip, at a little > time-stamp machine on all buses and subway platforms. It separates fare > collection/enforcement from driving, which is a Good Thing. (Under Toronto > POP, if you want to use a one-trip fare you still need to go to the front > and get a transfer which is your 'proof'.) I think that would be great to have on all TTC routes. It sure speeds up transfers and loading/unloading in general. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 17:12:33 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 13:12:33 -0400 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: <502BD495.8030301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <502BD495.8030301@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 15 August 2012 12:55, James Knott wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Plan B is to get a cheap wifi router , > which is more expensive and much bulkier. > > There are portable access points available from Asus & D-Link. They're > small devices that come with a carrying case. They work well and also have > other functions. For example, the Asus WL-330gE can be used to share a hot > spot. > I know. There are quite a few around. Because this is for travel purposes (ie, travelling small/light and trying to avoid powersupply issues) I need one that could be powered by USB, from a laptop or a USB cellphone charger I'm already packing. That's why the usual Asus and D-Links are unsuitable, they force carrying an extra wallwort and plug adaptor. They're also twice the price of the one I found in the link shown above. Cheaper and smaller still are this one or this one . My goal, however, is to make Plan A (connecting the Ethernet via USB/OTG) work if I possibly can. Can you help with that? - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 17:18:59 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 10:18:59 -0700 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How about the 3Rd-party kernels? Haven't tried one on my Nexus yet, but on my GS2 the Siyah kernel boosted my features and performance. On Aug 15, 2012 9:52 AM, "Evan Leibovitch" wrote: > Hi all. > > I've taken delivery of a Nexus 7 tablet and am very happy with it > (questions welcomed). > > One thing that I was hoping to do, when travelling with it, was to have > some method of using wired Ethernet with it (typically, when staying in a > hotel room that has a wired Ethernet drop but poor or no in-room wifi, this > has happened a few times). > > Plan A is to use the USB "on the go" spec to attach an Ethernet-to-USB > connector. > Plan B is to get a cheap wifi router , > which is more expensive and much bulkier. > > I've taken possession of item A, a $3 thing from eBay, > cheap enough that it didn't work I would toss it. > > When I plug it in and run `lsusb` on the Nexus 7, the hardware is seen but > there's no driver. I get > Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0fe6:9700 > > When I plug the same device into Ubuntu, it works fine and from `lsusb` I > get > Bus 002 Device 011: ID 0fe6:9700 Kontron (Industrial Computer Source / ICS > Advent) DM9601 Fast Ethernet Adapter > > I've been able to find Linux drivers for thisand in fact it's been made to work with the Motorola > Xoom and Asus > Transformer . > > Could some kind person here help me turn this driver into something usable > on the stock N7 kernel? > > Thanks! > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > Toronto Canada > > Em: evan at telly dot org > Sk: evanleibovitch > Tw: el56 > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 17:22:35 2012 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 13:22:35 -0400 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've heard great reviews from my coworker with a Nexus 7 using the Trinity Kernel: http://www.derkernel.com/jb-seven.php Not sure if it has the required drivers though. -jason On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > How about the 3Rd-party kernels? Haven't tried one on my Nexus yet, but on > my GS2 the Siyah kernel boosted my features and performance. > On Aug 15, 2012 9:52 AM, "Evan Leibovitch" wrote: > >> Hi all. >> >> I've taken delivery of a Nexus 7 tablet and am very happy with it >> (questions welcomed). >> >> One thing that I was hoping to do, when travelling with it, was to have >> some method of using wired Ethernet with it (typically, when staying in a >> hotel room that has a wired Ethernet drop but poor or no in-room wifi, this >> has happened a few times). >> >> Plan A is to use the USB "on the go" spec to attach an Ethernet-to-USB >> connector. >> Plan B is to get a cheap wifi router, >> which is more expensive and much bulkier. >> >> I've taken possession of item A, a $3 thing from eBay, >> cheap enough that it didn't work I would toss it. >> >> When I plug it in and run `lsusb` on the Nexus 7, the hardware is seen >> but there's no driver. I get >> Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0fe6:9700 >> >> When I plug the same device into Ubuntu, it works fine and from `lsusb` I >> get >> Bus 002 Device 011: ID 0fe6:9700 Kontron (Industrial Computer Source / >> ICS Advent) DM9601 Fast Ethernet Adapter >> >> I've been able to find Linux drivers for thisand in fact it's been made to work with the Motorola >> Xoom and Asus >> Transformer . >> >> Could some kind person here help me turn this driver into something >> usable on the stock N7 kernel? >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- >> Evan Leibovitch >> Toronto Canada >> >> Em: evan at telly dot org >> Sk: evanleibovitch >> Tw: el56 >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 17:28:02 2012 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 13:28:02 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1345043480.2981.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: I enjoyed the following: S) Her Majesty the Queen: Definition: Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second and her successors. Requirements: The Registrant's name must be that of Her Majesty the Queen or, after a succession, the name of her successor. So specific. BRB, will ask Her Majesty to register a domain name for me. Renata Rocha http://renata.org On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > This is the Internet, These things are easy to verify. > > There is required proof of Canadian presence for the owners of a .ca domain, > proof of citizenship is one way of satisfying the requirement. > The official policy is in a PDF, but there is also a simple link describing > it. > > - Evan > > > On 15 August 2012 11:14, Alex Gabriel wrote: >> >> When I worked in the domain industry (up until May 2011), there was no >> mention of needing a passport to register a .CA domain. That may have been >> the case previously, but it is no longer a requirement. It's different if >> you're changing the information on a domain (i.e. your e-mail address is no >> longer valid), but registering it is a much simpler process. >> >> Alex Gabriel >> "Someone has to take a stand against evil, why should it not be me?" >> >> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Mel Wilson wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, 2012-08-15 at 07:24 -0700, E K wrote: >>> > Oddly enough you need to have a passport to have a .ca domain name for >>> > your privately owned company. That might be the reason their site is >>> > down. >>> >>> Are you sure that's not old information? Nobody wanted to see a >>> passport for my .ca domain. Things I've heard have led me to believe >>> that requirements were more stringent many years ago. >>> >>> Mel. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > > > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > Toronto Canada > > Em: evan at telly dot org > Sk: evanleibovitch > Tw: el56 > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:07:33 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:07:33 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> I have been trying to tether my laptop (running gentoo) to my Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S non-rooted). According to the gentoo wiki page, one need only enable certain kernel options -- for USB network adapters, enable the multipurpose USB networking and then CDC ethernet, CDCEEM, simple USB links, and host for RNDIS, as well as embedded ARM linux -- and then plug in the phone to USB, select the "tethering" option from the settings menu, and you are good to go. And indeed, having done those things, I was rewarded with a usb0 networking device, on which I ran dhcpcd usb0 and got a network address and an entry in resolv.conf. Both route and ifconfig looked fine. Then, nothing. I could ping the phone from the computer, but no external sites. Nor did it work with a different set of nameservers, nor with ssh (for which there is no need for a DNS lookup). Nada. If I try to ping an external site, I do see the regular "4G" green up-arrow flashing, suggesting that data packets are leaving the phone, at least. Either I'm doing something wrong, which is likely since I'm an utter novice at this, or Rogers has figured out a way to block home tethering. I pay for a data plan, but not for separate tethering. But I don't see how they can tell when the phone is communicating on its own, so to speak, and when it is merely proxy for a computer behind it. Anyone know what the story is? Ideas, advice, suggestions? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:11:30 2012 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:11:30 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> Message-ID: What about tethering wirelessly? I know my stock Nexus S has had that capability since I got it, is that feature blocked in proprietary firmwares? On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Peter King wrote: > I have been trying to tether my laptop (running gentoo) to my Android phone > (Samsung Galaxy S non-rooted). According to the gentoo wiki page, one need > only enable certain kernel options -- for USB network adapters, enable the > multipurpose USB networking and then CDC ethernet, CDCEEM, simple USB > links, > and host for RNDIS, as well as embedded ARM linux -- and then plug in the > phone to USB, select the "tethering" option from the settings menu, and you > are good to go. And indeed, having done those things, I was rewarded with > a usb0 networking device, on which I ran dhcpcd usb0 and got a network > address > and an entry in resolv.conf. Both route and ifconfig looked fine. > > Then, nothing. > > I could ping the phone from the computer, but no external sites. Nor did it > work with a different set of nameservers, nor with ssh (for which there is > no need for a DNS lookup). Nada. > > If I try to ping an external site, I do see the regular "4G" green up-arrow > flashing, suggesting that data packets are leaving the phone, at least. > > Either I'm doing something wrong, which is likely since I'm an utter novice > at this, or Rogers has figured out a way to block home tethering. I pay for > a data plan, but not for separate tethering. But I don't see how they can > tell when the phone is communicating on its own, so to speak, and when it > is merely proxy for a computer behind it. > > Anyone know what the story is? Ideas, advice, suggestions? > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:12:39 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:12:39 -0400 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: References: <502BD495.8030301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120815181239.GL1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 01:12:33PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I know. There are quite a few around. Because this is for travel purposes > (ie, travelling small/light and trying to avoid powersupply issues) I need > one that could be powered by USB, from a laptop or a USB cellphone charger > I'm already packing. That's why the usual Asus and D-Links are unsuitable, > they force carrying an extra wallwort and plug adaptor. They're also twice > the price of the one I found in the link shown above. Cheaper and smaller > still are this one or this > one > . > > My goal, however, is to make Plan A (connecting the Ethernet via USB/OTG) > work if I possibly can. Can you help with that? This person here claims to have one that does work with Nexus 7: http://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Adapter-Android-Tablets-Windows/dp/B007RTACDM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1343114520&sr=8-3&keywords=bobjgear It sounds like anything with an AX88772 chip would work given that is what it uses. You apparently also have to disable wifi on android to get wired networking to work and won't get any indication that it is working other than it works in programs. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:19:53 2012 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:19:53 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> Message-ID: what is the routing? you would have to have some snat set up. .tl On Aug 15, 2012 2:09 PM, "Peter King" wrote: > I have been trying to tether my laptop (running gentoo) to my Android phone > (Samsung Galaxy S non-rooted). According to the gentoo wiki page, one need > only enable certain kernel options -- for USB network adapters, enable the > multipurpose USB networking and then CDC ethernet, CDCEEM, simple USB > links, > and host for RNDIS, as well as embedded ARM linux -- and then plug in the > phone to USB, select the "tethering" option from the settings menu, and you > are good to go. And indeed, having done those things, I was rewarded with > a usb0 networking device, on which I ran dhcpcd usb0 and got a network > address > and an entry in resolv.conf. Both route and ifconfig looked fine. > > Then, nothing. > > I could ping the phone from the computer, but no external sites. Nor did it > work with a different set of nameservers, nor with ssh (for which there is > no need for a DNS lookup). Nada. > > If I try to ping an external site, I do see the regular "4G" green up-arrow > flashing, suggesting that data packets are leaving the phone, at least. > > Either I'm doing something wrong, which is likely since I'm an utter novice > at this, or Rogers has figured out a way to block home tethering. I pay for > a data plan, but not for separate tethering. But I don't see how they can > tell when the phone is communicating on its own, so to speak, and when it > is merely proxy for a computer behind it. > > Anyone know what the story is? Ideas, advice, suggestions? > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:36:36 2012 From: sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Sammy Lao) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:36:36 -0400 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8545153404968955882@unknownmsgid> I have something like this for my tablet. http://ncix.com/products/?sku=26119 No messing around with drivers. Always work. Sent from my mobile On 2012-08-15, at 12:52, Evan Leibovitch wrote: Hi all. I've taken delivery of a Nexus 7 tablet and am very happy with it (questions welcomed). One thing that I was hoping to do, when travelling with it, was to have some method of using wired Ethernet with it (typically, when staying in a hotel room that has a wired Ethernet drop but poor or no in-room wifi, this has happened a few times). Plan A is to use the USB "on the go" spec to attach an Ethernet-to-USB connector. Plan B is to get a cheap wifi router , which is more expensive and much bulkier. I've taken possession of item A, a $3 thing from eBay, cheap enough that it didn't work I would toss it. When I plug it in and run `lsusb` on the Nexus 7, the hardware is seen but there's no driver. I get Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0fe6:9700 When I plug the same device into Ubuntu, it works fine and from `lsusb` I get Bus 002 Device 011: ID 0fe6:9700 Kontron (Industrial Computer Source / ICS Advent) DM9601 Fast Ethernet Adapter I've been able to find Linux drivers for thisand in fact it's been made to work with the Motorola Xoom and Asus Transformer . Could some kind person here help me turn this driver into something usable on the stock N7 kernel? Thanks! -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:35:05 2012 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:35:05 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Aaron Doucette wrote: > What about tethering wirelessly? I know my stock Nexus S has had that > capability since I got it, is that feature blocked in proprietary firmwares? > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Peter King wrote: >> >> I have been trying to tether my laptop (running gentoo) to my Android >> phone >> (Samsung Galaxy S non-rooted). According to the gentoo wiki page, one need >> only enable certain kernel options -- for USB network adapters, enable the I second Aaron. Forget about the USB tethering and use the portable hotspot feature. -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:39:32 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:39:32 -0400 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: <20120815181239.GL1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <502BD495.8030301@rogers.com> <20120815181239.GL1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 15 August 2012 14:12, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > This person here claims to have one that does work with Nexus 7: > > > http://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Adapter-Android-Tablets-Windows/dp/B007RTACDM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1343114520&sr=8-3&keywords=bobjgear > > It sounds like anything with an AX88772 chip would work given that is > what it uses. > I'm checking that out. Apparently that's a different chipset from the one I have, but it may be an option. For that price I may go with the small-router option, tho. > You apparently also have to disable wifi on android to get > wired networking to work and won't get any indication that it is working > other than it works in programs. > That's why I reprinted the 'lsusb' output to show that there was no driver recognized. There is a small subset of Linux commands like ifconfig that I can use to check on things even if it's not apparent in the GUI. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 18:42:18 2012 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 21:42:18 +0300 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 9:35 PM, Alejandro Imass wrote: > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Aaron Doucette > wrote: > > What about tethering wirelessly? I know my stock Nexus S has had that > > capability since I got it, is that feature blocked in proprietary > firmwares? > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Peter King > wrote: > >> > >> I have been trying to tether my laptop (running gentoo) to my Android > >> phone > >> (Samsung Galaxy S non-rooted). According to the gentoo wiki page, one > need > >> only enable certain kernel options -- for USB network adapters, enable > the > > > I second Aaron. Forget about the USB tethering and use the portable > hotspot feature. > Using the hotspot takes much more energy while tethering uses power from the computer. I don't think it makes any difference regarding connecting the internet. I sometimes got the same problems as he described and did not find a solution. Sometimes it work and sometimes it doesn't (I tried both tethering and hotspot). I would be happy to know how to solve this problem. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 20:39:38 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 16:39:38 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: <502BFEF0.80105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> <502BFEF0.80105@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120815203938.GM1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 03:56:32PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > I thought using USB would cause a performance hit, as it has to > handle each byte separately, rather than DMA as used by network > adapters. USB can do block transfers, but it is certainly a lot less efficient than a propery connected network device. So using the USB ethernet is likely to use a lot more CPU than the wifi, and could potentially actually use more power than wifi as a result. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:18:16 2012 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 15:18:16 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> Message-ID: If you are using it to provide service to a laptop, there's no reason you can't plug it in to the laptop to keep the charge topped up. I do this on the train where VIAs wifi gets sketchy (or I want to access a blocked service). The wifi hotspot capabilities are secure too (WPA2/PSK). On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Ori Idan wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 9:35 PM, Alejandro Imass wrote: > >> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Aaron Doucette >> wrote: >> > What about tethering wirelessly? I know my stock Nexus S has had that >> > capability since I got it, is that feature blocked in proprietary >> firmwares? >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Peter King >> wrote: >> >> >> >> I have been trying to tether my laptop (running gentoo) to my Android >> >> phone >> >> (Samsung Galaxy S non-rooted). According to the gentoo wiki page, one >> need >> >> only enable certain kernel options -- for USB network adapters, enable >> the >> >> >> I second Aaron. Forget about the USB tethering and use the portable >> hotspot feature. >> > > Using the hotspot takes much more energy while tethering uses power from > the computer. > I don't think it makes any difference regarding connecting the internet. > I sometimes got the same problems as he described and did not find a > solution. Sometimes it work and sometimes it doesn't (I tried both > tethering and hotspot). > I would be happy to know how to solve this problem. > > -- > Ori Idan > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:38:42 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 15:38:42 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> Message-ID: <502BFAC2.7060605@rogers.com> Peter King wrote: > Either I'm doing something wrong, which is likely since I'm an utter novice > at this, or Rogers has figured out a way to block home tethering. I pay for > a data plan, but not for separate tethering. But I don't see how they can > tell when the phone is communicating on its own, so to speak, and when it > is merely proxy for a computer behind it. > > Anyone know what the story is? Ideas, advice, suggestions? Why not use WiFi tethering? That's what I do. I enable the WiFi hotspot function of my phone and use that. Works well and I don't need any cables. Also, it supports tethering up to 8 devices. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 20:57:07 2012 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Doucette) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 16:57:07 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> <502BFAC2.7060605@rogers.com> Message-ID: Probably power/heat/performance. I can say that the phone heats up pretty good just running one wireless client off of it, I don't know what it would be like with 8. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 4:15 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: James Knott > > | Also, it supports tethering up to 8 devices. > > I wonder why it is limited to 8? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:44:37 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 15:44:37 -0400 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: References: <502BD495.8030301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <502BFC25.8080103@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I know. There are quite a few around. Because this is for travel > purposes (ie, travelling small/light and trying to avoid powersupply > issues) I need one that could be powered by USB, from a laptop or a > USB cellphone charger I'm already packing. That's why the usual Asus > and D-Links are unsuitable, they force carrying an extra wallwort and > plug adaptor. They're also twice the price of the one I found in the > link shown above. Cheaper and smaller still are this one > or this one > . > I have both the Asus WL-330gE and D-Link DAP-1350. Both can use USB power. The Asus does 802.11g and the D-Link 802.11n. I believe there's a later model Asus that also does 802.11n. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:54:03 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 15:54:03 -0400 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: <8545153404968955882@unknownmsgid> References: <8545153404968955882@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <502BFE5B.6000703@rogers.com> Sammy Lao wrote: > I have something like this for my tablet. > > http://ncix.com/products/?sku=26119 > > No messing around with drivers. > Always work. > I have one of those too, though I've seen it as low as $30. However the DAP-1350 is cheaper at Canada Computers and also does 802.11n -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 19:56:32 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 15:56:32 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> Message-ID: <502BFEF0.80105@rogers.com> Ori Idan wrote: > Using the hotspot takes much more energy while tethering uses power > from the computer. > I don't think it makes any difference regarding connecting the internet. I thought using USB would cause a performance hit, as it has to handle each byte separately, rather than DMA as used by network adapters. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 21:06:17 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:06:17 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <502C06C5.4050207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <502BC300.8020001@rogers.com> <502C06C5.4050207@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 4:29 PM, James Knott wrote: > John Moniz wrote: >>> >>> Or maybe a Geek restaurant. ;-) >>> >> Great idea, I love baklava. > > > I thought geeks ate cold pizza and Jolt. ;-) There are Greek Geeks (anyone who doubts this should have a word with Bill Thanis). As is, yes I have been known, when desperate, to eat cold pizza, but I think I've only tried Jolt once (was not impressed). Baklava on the other hand is very nice, not sure I would want it on a regular basis (a little too sweet...). Colin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 20:15:17 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 16:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: <502BFAC2.7060605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> <502BFAC2.7060605@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | Also, it supports tethering up to 8 devices. I wonder why it is limited to 8? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 20:23:27 2012 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 16:23:27 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <502BC300.8020001-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <502BC300.8020001@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 08/15/2012 11:40 AM, James Knott wrote: > Alex Gabriel wrote: >> It's a shame that this does seem to be an accurate story. I'd only >> been there once, but I rather enjoyed the atmosphere and the coffee. >> Hopefully someone else picks up the gauntlet in the city, and opens >> a similar venue. How about TLUG Caffe? > > Or maybe a Geek restaurant. ;-) > Great idea, I love baklava. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 20:28:18 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 16:28:18 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> <502BFAC2.7060605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <502C0662.6030009@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | Also, it supports tethering up to 8 devices. > > I wonder why it is limited to 8? No idea. However, as an experiment, I have had 5 connected. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 20:29:57 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 16:29:57 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502BC300.8020001@rogers.com> Message-ID: <502C06C5.4050207@rogers.com> John Moniz wrote: >> Or maybe a Geek restaurant. ;-) >> > Great idea, I love baklava. I thought geeks ate cold pizza and Jolt. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 21:21:07 2012 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1345043480.2981.1.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <1345065667.21698.YahooMailNeo@web164501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> What about proof of Ontario business registration? I offered that as I do not have a passport. However, they will not accept that. EK ________________________________ From: Evan Leibovitch To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 11:59:45 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: RIP Linuxcaffe? This is the Internet, These things are easy to verify. There is required proof of Canadian presence for the owners of a .ca domain, proof of citizenship is one way of satisfying the requirement. The official policy is in a PDF, but there is also a simple link describing it. - Evan On 15 August 2012 11:14, Alex Gabriel wrote: When I worked in the domain industry (up until May 2011), there was no mention of needing a passport to register a .CA domain. ?That may have been the case previously, but it is no longer a requirement. ?It's different if you're changing the information on a domain (i.e. your e-mail address is no longer valid), but registering it is a much simpler process. > >Alex Gabriel >"Someone has to take a stand against evil, why should it not be me?" > >On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Mel Wilson wrote: > >On Wed, 2012-08-15 at 07:24 -0700, E K wrote: >>> Oddly enough you need to have a passport to have a .ca domain name for >>> your privately owned company. That might be the reason their site is >>> down. >> >>Are you sure that's not old information? ?Nobody wanted to see a >>passport for my .ca domain. ?Things I've heard have led me to believe >>that requirements were more stringent many years ago. >> >>? ? ? ? Mel. >> >> >> >> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org >Sk: evanleibovitch >Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 21:50:34 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 17:50:34 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <1345065667.21698.YahooMailNeo-ysga9ygs+gWORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1345043480.2981.1.camel@tecumseth3> <1345065667.21698.YahooMailNeo@web164501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120815215034.GN1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 02:21:07PM -0700, E K wrote: > What about proof of Ontario business registration? > > I offered that as I do not have a passport. However, they will not accept that. I suspect you could have a business in ontario without being a resident of canada. Passport, birth certificate, imgration papers, etc. Those work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 22:23:32 2012 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 22:23:32 +0000 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 15 August 2012 16:52, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Plan A is to use the USB "on the go" spec to attach an Ethernet-to-USB connector. > Plan B is to get a cheap wifi router, which is more expensive and much > bulkier. Provided that you get a small travel router that can be USB powered and you're already carrying a USB power source (the cell charger you mentioned in another post) then I'd go the Plan B route (pun intended). You'll have to carry an Ethernet cable in either case but it could possibly be shorter because it doesn't have to reach all the way to the tablet. This, plus not needing to carry the USB to Etherenet adapter, might make up for some or all of the bulk of a router. Any extra bulk would probably be outweighed by the convenience of not having to have the tablet tethered to the wall. You'd be able to use it anywhere in the room and not have an awkward adapter and cable getting in your way, especially if you change the orientation of the tablet a lot. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 22:35:42 2012 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 22:35:42 +0000 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: References: <502BD495.8030301@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 15 August 2012 17:12, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I need one that could be powered by USB, from a laptop or a USB cellphone charger > cellphone charger I'm already packing. If you're already packing a laptop, why do you need an Ethernet adapter for the tablet? Is there something the tablet can do that the laptop can't? They both will have to be tethered to the wall, so the portability of the tablet doesn't help in this case. Another thought: Have you checked to see if it might be possible to run the laptop as a WiFi router to feed the tablet, in place of a separate router? -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 15 23:31:02 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 19:31:02 -0400 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 15 August 2012 18:23, Scott Allen wrote: > On 15 August 2012 16:52, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Provided that you get a small travel router that can be USB powered and > you're already carrying a USB power source (the cell charger you mentioned > in another post) then I'd go the Plan B route (pun intended). > > You'll have to carry an Ethernet cable in either case but it > could possibly be shorter because it doesn't have to reach all the way > to the tablet. This, plus not needing to carry the USB to Ethernet adapter, > might make up for some or all of the bulk of a router. > > Any extra bulk would probably be outweighed by the convenience of > not having to have the tablet tethered to the wall. You'd be able to useit > anywhere in the room and not have an awkward adapter and cable getting in > your way, especially if you change the orientation of the tablet a lot. > All excellent points, along with another -- a wifi access point could be used by more than one device at once (if the hotel gateway will allow it). And all of the travel routers have a repeater mode that allows them to strengthen weak signals. another frequent problem I find in hotels that have wifi but maybe only one or two access points per floor. The more I think about it, the less that recompiling and testing drivers, being tethered to the wall, being scared of ROM upgrades and having to muck with manually starting networking just seem like far more grief than the effort is worth. So plan B it is. I'm going to get the TP-Link TL-WR703N, which isn't sold retail outside China but is easily available on eBay. The similar WR702N is globally available, but has less flash memory and can't take the OpenWRT replacement ROM. - It's very small - Powered by a micro-USB connector, the same kind used to charge my phone and Nexus 7 (so no extra warts or cables to carry), consumes just .5W - At $23-25 (including shipping) it's almost half the price of the Asus or DLink units - It has a regular USB port and can be used as a wifi router for a USB 3G modem (such as a Rogers Rocketstick) - If I'm adventurous, it's supported by the OpenWRT program, which offers a replacement ROM that turns it into a full little Linux system(complete with Samba for sharing files on a USB key). Very Raspberry Pi-ish. (Who knows? with this setup I might just be able to get it to function as a Ethernet to USB adapter ANYWAY ;-) ) Thanks for the input, everyone. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 00:18:31 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 20:18:31 -0400 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: <502BFC25.8080103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <502BD495.8030301@rogers.com> <502BFC25.8080103@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120816001831.GA22705@amber> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 03:44:37PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > I have both the Asus WL-330gE and D-Link DAP-1350. Both can use USB For what it's worth -- I also have the Asus WL-330gE (bought in part by the high praise given on this list), and it has never worked at all. It sort of works, in that there is some web interface you can connect to and select options as though it were to do something. But it does nothing. Periodically I take it out and try to get it to work and it just doesn't. Too bad, since a device like that would be useful and I generally like ASUS products. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 00:41:27 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 20:41:27 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <1345044097.2981.5.camel@tecumseth3> References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345044097.2981.5.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <502C41B7.3070301@ve3syb.ca> On Wed, 2012-08-15 at 09:44 -0400, Todd Howe wrote: > From the little I've pieced together, Dave got busy with his film work I never dropped by Linuxcaffe as it was rather off my beaten track as I'm up in Markham. What film work has David done (or is doing)? I see six people listed in the IMDB with the same name as his. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 00:48:35 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 20:48:35 -0400 Subject: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver In-Reply-To: <20120816001831.GA22705@amber> References: <502BD495.8030301@rogers.com> <502BFC25.8080103@rogers.com> <20120816001831.GA22705@amber> Message-ID: <502C4363.6070606@rogers.com> Peter King wrote: > For what it's worth -- I also have the Asus WL-330gE (bought in part by the > high praise given on this list), and it has never worked at all. It sort of > works, in that there is some web interface you can connect to and select > options as though it were to do something. But it does nothing. Periodically > I take it out and try to get it to work and it just doesn't. Well, I don't know what to say. Mine works fine and always has. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 06:00:40 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 02:00:40 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: <20120815171009.GK1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20120813004912.GA3642@waltdnes.org> <20120813160427.GD1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120815171009.GK1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 15 August 2012 13:10, Lennart Sorensen wrote: (I believe that YRT fares and transfers are accepted on TTC > > buses north of Steeles). > > They are, but of course if you use Presto in YRT, then you have no way to > transfer to a TTC bus in york region because the TTC busses are not equiped > to accept presto and hence can't tell you have already paid for your 2 hour > fare. > True. There's even an FAQ entry on the YRT site about that. > I can't speak for BC Transit. but from Finch Avenue it costs more to get to > > Highway 7 than to go downtown because of the border crossing. > > Actually if you take a YRT bus from finch you only pay york region fare to > go from finch to highway 7. Guess I should have said Wilson or York Mills. ;-) > YRT busses can't drop you off while heading north into york region and > they can't pick you up south of steeles while heading into Toronto but they > don't charge an extra fare > to get you there (of course you also can't transfer to a TTC bus, so you > would be paying the extra fare when you do that). TTC busses also go much > further north of steeles than YRT busses go south. > One exception; if you have a valid TTC pass or transfer, you can take Viva Orange either way between Downsview Station and York University. This is especially useful nights and weekends when the 196 York U buses aren't every few minutes, and most people don't know about it. > This is the system used in many european transit systems. If you have a > > one-trip ticket, you validate it at the beginning of your trip, at a > little > > time-stamp machine on all buses and subway platforms. It separates fare > > collection/enforcement from driving, which is a Good Thing. (Under > Toronto > > POP, if you want to use a one-trip fare you still need to go to the front > > and get a transfer which is your 'proof'.) > > I think that would be great to have on all TTC routes. It sure speeds up > transfers and loading/unloading in general. > It's coming. The current plan is to have Presto system-wide in the TTC by 2015, before both the start of the Pan Am Games and the opening of the subway extension to the Vaughan Wal-Mart. (I'm still having a hard time calling that stop "Vaughan Corporate Centre" with a straight face) - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 14:14:11 2012 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 00:14:11 +1000 (EST) Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo-ysga9ygs+gUA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Aug 2012, E K wrote: > Oddly enough you need to have a passport to have a .ca domain name for > your privately owned company. That might be the reason their site is > down. Hi E K. Here are the rules for .ca registration: http://www.cira.ca/assets/Documents/Legal/Registrants/CPR.pdf As you can see, variou categories of people/corporations can hold .ca domains. I certainly held .ca domains as a Canadian permanent resident (I'm a citizen now) and I don't recall having to supply my PR card number, or any other number. More recently, I haven't had to supply my Canadian passport number either. Essentially a person or corporation must have a 'Connection to Canada' to register a .ca domain. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Director, Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) "Information is a gas" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 14:44:24 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 10:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: Robert Brockway | On Wed, 15 Aug 2012, E K wrote: | | > Oddly enough you need to have a passport to have a .ca domain name for your | > privately owned company. That might be the reason their site is down. | | Hi E K. Here are the rules for .ca registration: | | http://www.cira.ca/assets/Documents/Legal/Registrants/CPR.pdf At one point (perhaps 1992) I looked into .ca. I think that it was when UBC was the gatekeeper. The rules would not allow my Ontario-registered company to have a .ca domain if it didn't have some kind of presence in more than just Ontario. Otherwise, I was supposed to register in on.ca. Apparently those rules went away on 2000 November 8. E K: when did you try to register? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 14:47:58 2012 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio Neves) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 10:47:58 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, I have only a PR card and I have three .ca domains so far. Just look at the signature below... Fabio Neves (FZero) http://fzero.ca | http://nostep.ca | http://bitbang.ca On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:44 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Robert Brockway > > | On Wed, 15 Aug 2012, E K wrote: > | > | > Oddly enough you need to have a passport to have a .ca domain name for your > | > privately owned company. That might be the reason their site is down. > | > | Hi E K. Here are the rules for .ca registration: > | > | http://www.cira.ca/assets/Documents/Legal/Registrants/CPR.pdf > > At one point (perhaps 1992) I looked into .ca. I think that it was > when UBC was the gatekeeper. The rules would not allow my > Ontario-registered company to have a .ca domain if it didn't have some > kind of presence in more than just Ontario. Otherwise, I was supposed > to register in on.ca. Apparently those rules went away on 2000 > November 8. > > E K: when did you try to register? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 14:50:59 2012 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 10:50:59 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Of course you asked Her Majesty to register three domains for you. (or maybe the rules allow people with PR cards to register domains for themselves) Renata Rocha http://renata.org On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:47 AM, Fabio Neves wrote: > Well, I have only a PR card and I have three .ca domains so far. Just > look at the signature below... > > > Fabio Neves (FZero) > http://fzero.ca | http://nostep.ca | http://bitbang.ca > > > > On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:44 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> | From: Robert Brockway >> >> | On Wed, 15 Aug 2012, E K wrote: >> | >> | > Oddly enough you need to have a passport to have a .ca domain name for your >> | > privately owned company. That might be the reason their site is down. >> | >> | Hi E K. Here are the rules for .ca registration: >> | >> | http://www.cira.ca/assets/Documents/Legal/Registrants/CPR.pdf >> >> At one point (perhaps 1992) I looked into .ca. I think that it was >> when UBC was the gatekeeper. The rules would not allow my >> Ontario-registered company to have a .ca domain if it didn't have some >> kind of presence in more than just Ontario. Otherwise, I was supposed >> to register in on.ca. Apparently those rules went away on 2000 >> November 8. >> >> E K: when did you try to register? >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 14:55:44 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 10:55:44 -0400 Subject: The TTC bylaws regarding the use of transfers are Draconian, nonsensical and business unfriendly. In-Reply-To: References: <34a1a77b92bcf624f777162d36984814.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20120813004912.GA3642@waltdnes.org> <20120813160427.GD1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120815171009.GK1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120816145544.GO1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 02:00:40AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > One exception; if you have a valid TTC pass or transfer, you can take Viva > Orange either way between Downsview Station and York > University. > This is especially useful nights and weekends when the 196 York U buses > aren't every few minutes, and most people don't know about it. And of course the other exception that particular bus has is that is IS allowed to pick up at downsview and drop off at york university, which other YRT busses can't do until they cross steeles. Not that any other YRT bus goes to downsview that I know of. I think they all go to funch station instead, or don mills station. Always fun with exceptions. > It's coming. The current plan is to have Presto system-wide in the TTC by > 2015, before both the start of the Pan Am Games and the opening of the > subway extension to the Vaughan Wal-Mart. > > (I'm still having a hard time calling that stop "Vaughan Corporate Centre" > with a straight face) Yeah I know. Silly name. It's a Walmart, Lowe's, futureshop, a few hotels, Ikea, some pubs, a movie theatre, and Toromont pretty much. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 21:49:21 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Aug 2012, Fabio Neves wrote: > Well, I have only a PR card and I have three .ca domains so far. Just > look at the signature below... I have a .ca domain and I don't yet have a PR card. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 23:21:28 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 19:21:28 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <502D8078.9000903@ve3syb.ca> On 12-08-16 05:49 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > I have a .ca domain and I don't yet have a PR card. What is a PR card? -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 23:24:57 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 19:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <502D8078.9000903-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <502D8078.9000903@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Aug 2012, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 12-08-16 05:49 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> I have a .ca domain and I don't yet have a PR card. > > What is a PR card? Permanent Resident card. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 16 23:32:31 2012 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 09:32:31 +1000 (EST) Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <502C41B7.3070301-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345044097.2981.5.camel@tecumseth3> <502C41B7.3070301@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Aug 2012, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On Wed, 2012-08-15 at 09:44 -0400, Todd Howe wrote: >> From the little I've pieced together, Dave got busy with his film work > > I never dropped by Linuxcaffe as it was rather off my beaten track as I'm up > in Markham. What film work has David done (or is doing)? I see six people > listed in the IMDB with the same name as his. David was involved in the film industry long before LinuxCaffe. Given that he's a camera guy I believe these are both David: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2638517/ http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4847003/ One point-of-order on the story linked in the original post[1]. It claims LinuxCaffe opened in 2003. I helped David early on with the network and system design (before other TLUGers picked up and task and ran with it) and I recall these events occuring in 2005[2]. [1] http://www.blogto.com/deadpool/2012/08/linuxcaffe_looks_distinctly_deadpool/ [2] This page agrees with me: http://www.blogto.com/cafes/linuxcaffe Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Director, Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) "Information is a gas" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 15:40:54 2012 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1345218054.4300.YahooMailNeo@web164501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ________________________________ From: D. Hugh Redelmeier To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:44:24 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: RIP Linuxcaffe? | From: Robert Brockway | On Wed, 15 Aug 2012, E K wrote: | | > Oddly enough you need to have a passport to have a .ca domain name for your | > privately owned company. That might be the reason their site is down. | | Hi E K.? Here are the rules for .ca registration: | | http://www.cira.ca/assets/Documents/Legal/Registrants/CPR.pdf | At one point (perhaps 1992) I looked into .ca.? I think that it was | when UBC was the gatekeeper.? The rules would not allow my | Ontario-registered company to have a .ca domain if it didn't have some | kind of presence in more than just Ontario.? Otherwise, I was supposed | to register in on.ca.? Apparently those rules went away on 2000 | November 8. | | E K: when did you try to register? I had registered the domain name without any of the documentation, as far as I can remember. It was only this year that the CIRA contacted me to give them the document. The business registration that I submitted clearly indicates that the company address is in Toronto. Arguably, that address is more current than the address on any of the documents that they asked. Definately more current than the birth certificate. In the light of this case, their 'Canadian presence' reason didn't make sense to me. But, I have lived long enough to know that rules do not have to always be logical; only enforceable. EK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 15:56:33 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:56:33 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <1345218054.4300.YahooMailNeo-ysga9ygs+gWORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1345218054.4300.YahooMailNeo@web164501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > In the light of this case, their 'Canadian presence' reason didn't make > sense to me. But, I have lived long enough to know that rules do not have > to always be logical; only enforceable. > Considering the utter mess that some country-code domains have become, often willingly in a desperate grab for domain speculators' cash (Columbia and Montenegro are prime examples), the "Canadian presence" policy is an eminently good one IMO. The devil's in the details, of course. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 16:30:19 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:30:19 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1345218054.4300.YahooMailNeo@web164501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1345221019.3280.3.camel@tecumseth3> On Fri, 2012-08-17 at 11:56 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > In the light of this case, their 'Canadian presence' reason > didn't make sense to me. But, I have lived long enough to know > that rules do not have to always be logical; only > enforceable. > > > Considering the utter mess that some country-code domains have become, > often willingly in a desperate grab for domain speculators' cash > (Columbia and Montenegro are > prime examples), the "Canadian presence" policy is an eminently good > one IMO. The devil's in the details, of course. It was the pickiness that made me choose a .ca domain. I'd heard about retailer-registrars that keep ownership of the domain name for themselves, so that in law I, the customer, could lose the name if the retailer got a better offer. I found out at the CIRA booth at one of the IT360 shows that CIRA specifically does not allow this. So that was my choice, after they relaxed the rules so that I could get in at all. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 16:33:16 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:33:16 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1345218054.4300.YahooMailNeo@web164501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> In the light of this case, their 'Canadian presence' reason didn't make >> sense to me. But, I have lived long enough to know that rules do not have to >> always be logical; only enforceable. > > Considering the utter mess that some country-code domains have become, often > willingly in a desperate grab for domain speculators' cash (Columbia and > Montenegro are > prime examples), the "Canadian presence" policy is an eminently good one > IMO. The devil's in the details, of course. When .LA (Laos) tried to cash in, 'twas pretty funny. They were after prominent Los Angeles things. I don't think tried to make "ahnold.la" a 'premium' name, but there were other names with Entertaining Pricing... Some colleagues were joking about crips.la and bloods.la being promising possibilities. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 17 17:19:31 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 13:19:31 -0400 Subject: RIP Linuxcaffe? In-Reply-To: <1345218054.4300.YahooMailNeo-ysga9ygs+gWORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <502B8FFC.9080609@rogers.com> <1345038246.1768.6.camel@Nokia-N900> <1345040654.53193.YahooMailNeo@web164504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1345218054.4300.YahooMailNeo@web164501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have 3 .ca domains, drpcdr.ca, jobcircle.ca and afrogta.ca My web host said you must have a physical Canadian address, a rule stipulated by cira On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 11:40 AM, E K wrote: > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* D. Hugh Redelmeier > *To:* "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" > *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:44:24 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [TLUG]: RIP Linuxcaffe? > > | From: Robert Brockway > > | On Wed, 15 Aug 2012, E K wrote: > | > | > Oddly enough you need to have a passport to have a .ca domain name for > your > | > privately owned company. That might be the reason their site is down. > | > | Hi E K. Here are the rules for .ca registration: > | > | http://www.cira.ca/assets/Documents/Legal/Registrants/CPR.pdf > > | At one point (perhaps 1992) I looked into .ca. I think that it was > | when UBC was the gatekeeper. The rules would not allow my > | Ontario-registered company to have a .ca domain if it didn't have some > | kind of presence in more than just Ontario. Otherwise, I was supposed > | to register in on.ca. Apparently those rules went away on 2000 > | November 8. > | > | E K: when did you try to register? > > I had registered the domain name without any of the documentation, as far > as I can remember. It was only this year that the CIRA contacted me to give > them the document. The business registration that I submitted clearly > indicates that the company address is in Toronto. Arguably, that address is > more current than the address on any of the documents that they asked. > Definately more current than the birth certificate. > > In the light of this case, their 'Canadian presence' reason didn't make > sense to me. But, I have lived long enough to know that rules do not have > to always be logical; only enforceable. > > EK > -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 01:18:57 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:18:57 -0700 Subject: Trinity Kernel (was: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver) Message-ID: The website is a bit sparse on details. What's added/improved in this kernel? On Aug 15, 2012 10:23 AM, "Jason Shaw" wrote: > I've heard great reviews from my coworker with a Nexus 7 using the Trinity > Kernel: http://www.derkernel.com/jb-seven.php > > Not sure if it has the required drivers though. > > -jason > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> How about the 3Rd-party kernels? Haven't tried one on my Nexus yet, but >> on my GS2 the Siyah kernel boosted my features and performance. >> On Aug 15, 2012 9:52 AM, "Evan Leibovitch" wrote: >> >>> Hi all. >>> >>> I've taken delivery of a Nexus 7 tablet and am very happy with it >>> (questions welcomed). >>> >>> One thing that I was hoping to do, when travelling with it, was to have >>> some method of using wired Ethernet with it (typically, when staying in a >>> hotel room that has a wired Ethernet drop but poor or no in-room wifi, this >>> has happened a few times). >>> >>> Plan A is to use the USB "on the go" spec to attach an Ethernet-to-USB >>> connector. >>> Plan B is to get a cheap wifi router, >>> which is more expensive and much bulkier. >>> >>> I've taken possession of item A, a $3 thing from eBay, >>> cheap enough that it didn't work I would toss it. >>> >>> When I plug it in and run `lsusb` on the Nexus 7, the hardware is seen >>> but there's no driver. I get >>> Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0fe6:9700 >>> >>> When I plug the same device into Ubuntu, it works fine and from `lsusb` >>> I get >>> Bus 002 Device 011: ID 0fe6:9700 Kontron (Industrial Computer Source / >>> ICS Advent) DM9601 Fast Ethernet Adapter >>> >>> I've been able to find Linux drivers for thisand in fact it's been made to work with the Motorola >>> Xoom and Asus >>> Transformer . >>> >>> Could some kind person here help me turn this driver into something >>> usable on the stock N7 kernel? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> -- >>> Evan Leibovitch >>> Toronto Canada >>> >>> Em: evan at telly dot org >>> Sk: evanleibovitch >>> Tw: el56 >>> >>> >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 13:12:51 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 09:12:51 -0400 Subject: ZyXEL rack mount modems... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am looking for a new home for 16 14.4 kbps ZyXEL rack mount modems designed to fit into a standard 19" rack (ie: 1 power supply case with stupid back plane and 16 modems mounted in the rack). These 16 modems were in service with the Toronto Free-Net for a while, but for the last few years have been taking up space in my basement. The modems were working when pulled from service but have not been powered up for a few years. Anyone know of a good home for these or should I send out for recycling? Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bcopeland-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 16:31:25 2012 From: bcopeland-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Copeland) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 12:31:25 -0400 Subject: Proposal for a Wireless Access authentication talk? In-Reply-To: <50231DE4.3000900-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <50231DE4.3000900@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 12-08-08 05:39 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:32 PM, William Muriithi >> It still leaves open the question of who knows enough about it to talk >> about it, but if the scope is drawn down to "You've got 30 minutes", >> that might make it easier for someone to imagine themselves capable to >> be the speaker. > > I'm no expert, but I could conceive of speaking about WPA2 + Freeradius > given enough time to get a demo router flashed and create a presentation. I've set up EAP using hostapd and freeradius before as well and could probably assist / bluff my way through under similar circumstances. I only spent an hour or so on it at the time to see that it worked, so I can't speak with any expertise about real deployments. I do some work with wifi drivers in the kernel so I could talk about that as well. (I haven't been to a TLUG meeting yet, having moved to the area / country less than a year ago, so, hi.) -- Bob Copeland %% www.bobcopeland.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 17:05:26 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 13:05:26 -0400 Subject: Proposal for a Wireless Access authentication talk? In-Reply-To: <50231DE4.3000900-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <50231DE4.3000900@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 12-08-08 05:39 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:32 PM, William Muriithi >> wrote: >>> Curious, any one here managed to configure their APs to authenticate >>> through their centralized authentication system? (WP2) >>> >>> If so, mind offering a talk some day? describing the set up a bit, and >>> what would be the painful section to watch out for? >> >> Hmm. The Board has been musing about a "router night" for a while, >> which has been looking like it's a series of small topics. >> Centralizing authentication sounds like an interesting addition. >> Certainly worth tossing onto the list. >> >> It still leaves open the question of who knows enough about it to talk >> about it, but if the scope is drawn down to "You've got 30 minutes", >> that might make it easier for someone to imagine themselves capable to >> be the speaker. > > I'm no expert, but I could conceive of speaking about WPA2 + Freeradius > given enough time to get a demo router flashed and create a presentation. I have no doubt but that that the process of preparing an explanation for others would help cement some bit of expertise. If what you prepare is, "here are the 27 steps I went thru to do this; do the same", that would frankly be boring and irritating. (I do NOT want to know 27 steps on how to set up WPA2+Radius!) Distilling that to get somewhat more abstract descriptions will be useful; listeners will find "Why?" much more interesting than "What?" And the number of "Whys" should be fewer than the "Whats." :-) I notice one thing in looking at freeradius.org that I wanna gripe about; it's a little too recursive. "FreeRADIUS is a free RADIUS server." To which my retort is, "perhaps that should explain what RADIUS is, and why I should care?" (Their FAQ gets to the root of it, but there should be a better up-front answer!) Perhaps that even points towards a broader talk, along the lines of... "Why you should consider setting up FreeRADIUS to handle centralized authentication for various services, including for Linux users, WiFi, databases, and more!" But perhaps I'm being overambitious here. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 18:56:49 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 14:56:49 -0400 Subject: ZyXEL rack mount modems... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <502FE571.3040203@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > I am looking for a new home for 16 14.4 kbps ZyXEL rack mount modems > designed to fit into a standard 19" rack (ie: 1 power supply case with > stupid back plane and 16 modems mounted in the rack). These 16 modems > were in service with the Toronto Free-Net for a while, but for the > last few years have been taking up space in my basement. The modems > were working when pulled from service but have not been powered up for > a few years. > > Anyone know of a good home for these or should I send out for recycling? > > Thanks. > Modems??? Do people still use those? Also, 14.4 k modems were obsolete long before most people stopped using dial up. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 19:04:11 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:04:11 -0400 Subject: ZyXEL rack mount modems... In-Reply-To: <502FE571.3040203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <502FE571.3040203@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 2:56 PM, James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> I am looking for a new home for 16 14.4 kbps ZyXEL rack mount modems >> designed to fit into a standard 19" rack (ie: 1 power supply case with >> stupid back plane and 16 modems mounted in the rack). These 16 modems >> were in service with the Toronto Free-Net for a while, but for the >> last few years have been taking up space in my basement. The modems >> were working when pulled from service but have not been powered up for >> a few years. >> >> Anyone know of a good home for these or should I send out for recycling? >> >> Thanks. >> > > Modems??? Do people still use those? Also, 14.4 k modems were obsolete > long before most people stopped using dial up. People still use modems ... for sending/receiving faxes. Also, modems are still used in some specialized roles, like point of sale terminals. The modems I am offering could do fine in these roles. But rack mount modems were / are specialized bits of hardware that have always had a limited audience... Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 19:22:33 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:22:33 -0400 Subject: ZyXEL rack mount modems... In-Reply-To: References: <502FE571.3040203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <502FEB79.8060808@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > But > rack mount modems were / are specialized bits of hardware that have > always had a limited audience... Yep. Several years ago, I planned the installation of several bays of AT&T Paradyne modem shelves. IIRC, there were 8 shelves (16 modems each) per bay, along with a controller shelf. They had a common supervisory/admin bus that daisy chained between shelves. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 19:22:30 2012 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:22:30 +0000 Subject: ZyXEL rack mount modems... Message-ID: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> Kinda interesting stuff. They are much like serial consoles - you still use them a lot in the datacenter world. You know, I've often wondered whether amodem could be used to connect to a serial port. John. ------Original Message------ From: Colin McGregor Sender: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org ReplyTo: tlug at ss.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: ZyXEL rack mount modems... Sent: Aug 18, 2012 3:04 PM On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 2:56 PM, James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> I am looking for a new home for 16 14.4 kbps ZyXEL rack mount modems >> designed to fit into a standard 19" rack (ie: 1 power supply case with >> stupid back plane and 16 modems mounted in the rack). These 16 modems >> were in service with the Toronto Free-Net for a while, but for the >> last few years have been taking up space in my basement. The modems >> were working when pulled from service but have not been powered up for >> a few years. >> >> Anyone know of a good home for these or should I send out for recycling? >> >> Thanks. >> > > Modems??? Do people still use those? Also, 14.4 k modems were obsolete > long before most people stopped using dial up. People still use modems ... for sending/receiving faxes. Also, modems are still used in some specialized roles, like point of sale terminals. The modems I am offering could do fine in these roles. But rack mount modems were / are specialized bits of hardware that have always had a limited audience... Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 19:25:54 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:25:54 -0400 Subject: ZyXEL rack mount modems... In-Reply-To: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299--f98ek0+W9Kru0SvZEyS9JBekPp51BxWP@public.gmane.org> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <502FEC42.2090602@alteeve.ca> I've heard of folks using analog modems to control things remotely. Basically used them as banks of computer-attached relays for things like turning driveway heaters on and off. On 08/18/2012 03:22 PM, jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Kinda interesting stuff. > They are much like serial consoles - you still use them a lot in the datacenter world. > You know, I've often wondered whether amodem could be used to connect to a serial port. > > John. > ------Original Message------ > From: Colin McGregor > Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > ReplyTo: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: ZyXEL rack mount modems... > Sent: Aug 18, 2012 3:04 PM > > On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 2:56 PM, James Knott wrote: >> Colin McGregor wrote: >>> >>> I am looking for a new home for 16 14.4 kbps ZyXEL rack mount modems >>> designed to fit into a standard 19" rack (ie: 1 power supply case with >>> stupid back plane and 16 modems mounted in the rack). These 16 modems >>> were in service with the Toronto Free-Net for a while, but for the >>> last few years have been taking up space in my basement. The modems >>> were working when pulled from service but have not been powered up for >>> a few years. >>> >>> Anyone know of a good home for these or should I send out for recycling? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >> >> Modems??? Do people still use those? Also, 14.4 k modems were obsolete >> long before most people stopped using dial up. > > People still use modems ... for sending/receiving faxes. Also, modems > are still used in some specialized roles, like point of sale > terminals. The modems I am offering could do fine in these roles. But > rack mount modems were / are specialized bits of hardware that have > always had a limited audience... > > Colin McGregor > >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerryN???'?????T????.????)??m?????n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^????? -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 19:31:41 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:31:41 -0400 Subject: ZyXEL rack mount modems... In-Reply-To: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299--f98ek0+W9Kru0SvZEyS9JBekPp51BxWP@public.gmane.org> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 3:22 PM, wrote: > Kinda interesting stuff. > They are much like serial consoles - you still use them a lot in the datacenter world. > You know, I've often wondered whether a modem could be used to connect to a serial port. Yes modems could be used to connect to serial ports. The way the Toronto FreeNet set things up was to have racks of modems connected to terminal servers (when the Toronto Free-Net was supporting the modems I am looking to get rid of they had a Cisco terminal server and for a time they had 3 Livingston/Lucent Portmaster terminal servers). Colin. > John. > ------Original Message------ > From: Colin McGregor > Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > ReplyTo: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: ZyXEL rack mount modems... > Sent: Aug 18, 2012 3:04 PM > > On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 2:56 PM, James Knott wrote: >> Colin McGregor wrote: >>> >>> I am looking for a new home for 16 14.4 kbps ZyXEL rack mount modems >>> designed to fit into a standard 19" rack (ie: 1 power supply case with >>> stupid back plane and 16 modems mounted in the rack). These 16 modems >>> were in service with the Toronto Free-Net for a while, but for the >>> last few years have been taking up space in my basement. The modems >>> were working when pulled from service but have not been powered up for >>> a few years. >>> >>> Anyone know of a good home for these or should I send out for recycling? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >> >> Modems??? Do people still use those? Also, 14.4 k modems were obsolete >> long before most people stopped using dial up. > > People still use modems ... for sending/receiving faxes. Also, modems > are still used in some specialized roles, like point of sale > terminals. The modems I am offering could do fine in these roles. But > rack mount modems were / are specialized bits of hardware that have > always had a limited audience... > > Colin McGregor > >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 19:34:07 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:34:07 -0400 Subject: ZyXEL rack mount modems... In-Reply-To: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299--f98ek0+W9Kru0SvZEyS9JBekPp51BxWP@public.gmane.org> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <502FEE2F.50303@rogers.com> jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > They are much like serial consoles - you still use them a lot in the datacenter world. > You know, I've often wondered whether amodem could be used to connect to a serial port. Yes it can. Several years ago, I had dial up access to my Linux computer using a modem and PPP. I had to use proxy arp to give my remote computer an IP address on my LAN. Long before that, I used to dial into a VAX 11/780 at work, using my IMSAI 8080 as a terminal. BTW, interesting story about how I got my first modem. One day my wife was visiting me at my office and I showed her the Adventure game on the VAX. She asked if she could play it on my computer. I told her no, but if we had a modem... I was soon the proud owner of a 300B manual modem. :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 19:56:14 2012 From: alex-os5u1bLqfxy+Ff04BfjinA at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:56:14 -0400 Subject: Toronto FreeNet In-Reply-To: References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> .I've not heard that name in a while. Not since I worked at Interlog (circa 1999), to say the least. Are they still operational or have they gone the way of the dodo bird? There's still a web site, but I've not gone through it extensively. Gabriel "Someone has to take a stand against evil, why should it not be me?" -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Colin McGregor Sent: August-18-12 3:32 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: ZyXEL rack mount modems... On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 3:22 PM, wrote: > Kinda interesting stuff. > They are much like serial consoles - you still use them a lot in the datacenter world. > You know, I've often wondered whether a modem could be used to connect to a serial port. Yes modems could be used to connect to serial ports. The way the Toronto FreeNet set things up was to have racks of modems connected to terminal servers (when the Toronto Free-Net was supporting the modems I am looking to get rid of they had a Cisco terminal server and for a time they had 3 Livingston/Lucent Portmaster terminal servers). Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 20:03:58 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 16:03:58 -0400 Subject: Toronto FreeNet In-Reply-To: <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> Message-ID: The Toronto Free-Net is still alive and well. The Toronto Free-Net is looking for some additional volunteers, ideally with some ISP experience. If you would like to volunteer touch base with Iain Calder - dn097-0l1pH2CMacvuFKmmi/icCA at public.gmane.org Colin McGregor On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Alex Gabriel wrote: > .I've not heard that name in a while. Not since I worked at Interlog (circa > 1999), to say the least. Are they still operational or have they gone the > way of the dodo bird? There's still a web site, but I've not gone through it > extensively. > > Gabriel > "Someone has to take a stand against evil, why should it not be me?" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Colin > McGregor > Sent: August-18-12 3:32 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: ZyXEL rack mount modems... > > On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 3:22 PM, wrote: >> Kinda interesting stuff. >> They are much like serial consoles - you still use them a lot in the > datacenter world. >> You know, I've often wondered whether a modem could be used to connect to > a serial port. > > Yes modems could be used to connect to serial ports. The way the Toronto > FreeNet set things up was to have racks of modems connected to terminal > servers (when the Toronto Free-Net was supporting the modems I am looking to > get rid of they had a Cisco terminal server and for a time they had 3 > Livingston/Lucent Portmaster terminal servers). > > Colin > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 22:06:07 2012 From: torfree-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 23:06:07 +0100 Subject: Toronto FreeNet In-Reply-To: <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> (Alex Gabriel's message of "Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:56:14 -0400") References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> Message-ID: <84d32nsvn4.fsf@free.fr> "Alex Gabriel" a ?crit profondement: | .I've not heard that name in a while. Not since I worked at Interlog (circa | 1999), to say the least. Are they still operational or have they gone the | way of the dodo bird? There's still a web site, but I've not gone through it | extensively. > I believe they are ;) -- Slackrat Flying the Flag of the English -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 01:50:08 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:50:08 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> Message-ID: <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> Here's a question I should know the answer to but I'm too jet-lagged to think of it. I'm rebuilding a system, and I've set up a new boot disk, which involved creating a new everyday user (call him "joe"). I've mounted the old hard disk with lots of stuff on it that belonged to joe on the old failed system. But now while the files are identified as owned by joe as the user, the group id is not "joe" or "user" but "1002" (no such group). I suppose I could run a massive find-and-chgrp command, but I can't be the first person to face this problem, and there must be a simple solution, which I just can't think of right now. Anyone care to tell me the simple and obvious one-line solution? Even two lines would do. Thanks. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 02:02:14 2012 From: mwilson-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 22:02:14 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> Message-ID: <1345341734.4154.2.camel@tecumseth3> On Sat, 2012-08-18 at 21:50 -0400, Peter King wrote: > Here's a question I should know the answer to but I'm too jet-lagged to think > of it. I'm rebuilding a system, and I've set up a new boot disk, which involved > creating a new everyday user (call him "joe"). I've mounted the old hard disk > with lots of stuff on it that belonged to joe on the old failed system. But now > while the files are identified as owned by joe as the user, the group id is not > "joe" or "user" but "1002" (no such group). I suppose I could run a massive > find-and-chgrp command, but I can't be the first person to face this problem, > and there must be a simple solution, which I just can't think of right now. > Anyone care to tell me the simple and obvious one-line solution? Even two lines > would do. Thanks. Create a group 1002 on your new system and add joe to that group? Would that work? I did the same thing lately, but because the new user number and group number happened to be the same as the ones on the old disk, I just mounted the old disk and used the files, fat, dumb, and happy. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 02:32:28 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 22:32:28 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> Message-ID: > Anyone care to tell me the simple and obvious one-line solution? Even two lines > would do. Thanks. > > -- If you have the old shadow file, password file and group file, you can use them instead of creating users afresh. William > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 03:36:56 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 23:36:56 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> Message-ID: <20120819033656.GA22890@amber> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 10:32:28PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > If you have the old shadow file, password file and group file, you can > use them instead of creating users afresh. Ahhh... you mean, copy it over the new one? Tricky. I like it. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 03:40:08 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 23:40:08 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <1345341734.4154.2.camel@tecumseth3> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> <1345341734.4154.2.camel@tecumseth3> Message-ID: <20120819034008.GB22890@amber> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 10:02:14PM -0400, Mel Wilson wrote: > Create a group 1002 on your new system and add joe to that group? Would > that work? I did the same thing lately, but because the new user number > and group number happened to be the same as the ones on the old disk, I > just mounted the old disk and used the files, fat, dumb, and happy. Fat dumb and happy is the condition I'm aspiring to! But I think it's going to take a find-and-chgrp to make it moderately straightforward. Otherwise the new joe will just happen to belong to two different groups, and the files will therefore have different permissions/access rights. Don't know *why* I didn't have the same luck as you -- near as I can tell, joe is UID/GID = 1000 on both computers. (Hard to tell on the one that's failed, admittedly.) Perhaps it has something to do with how the disc is mounted... -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 03:45:27 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 23:45:27 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <20120819033656.GA22890@amber> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> <20120819033656.GA22890@amber> Message-ID: > > > If you have the old shadow file, password file and group file, you can > > use them instead of creating users afresh. > > Ahhh... you mean, copy it over the new one? Tricky. I like it. > > -- Did you try it? Its safe but understand if you are uncomfortable with it > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 04:06:56 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:06:56 -0700 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <20120819034008.GB22890@amber> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> <1345341734.4154.2.camel@tecumseth3> <20120819034008.GB22890@amber> Message-ID: Why not just groupmod the primary group to a new gid (1002) On Aug 18, 2012 8:40 PM, "Peter King" wrote: > On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 10:02:14PM -0400, Mel Wilson wrote: > > > Create a group 1002 on your new system and add joe to that group? Would > > that work? I did the same thing lately, but because the new user number > > and group number happened to be the same as the ones on the old disk, I > > just mounted the old disk and used the files, fat, dumb, and happy. > > Fat dumb and happy is the condition I'm aspiring to! But I think it's going > to take a find-and-chgrp to make it moderately straightforward. Otherwise > the > new joe will just happen to belong to two different groups, and the files > will > therefore have different permissions/access rights. > > Don't know *why* I didn't have the same luck as you -- near as I can tell, > joe is UID/GID = 1000 on both computers. (Hard to tell on the one that's > failed, admittedly.) Perhaps it has something to do with how the disc is > mounted... > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 17:02:46 2012 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 13:02:46 -0400 Subject: strange characters when cleaning HTML with tidy? Message-ID: hi, I am trying to use "tidy" to clean up the html generated by libreoffice from an odt document. Since most of my stuff now moves through the web, I usually just work in emacs and export to my blog. But for highly structured document I'm still using libreoffice, which is fine till I try to export that work to HTML and paste it into Wordpress. when I try that, the formatting ends up pretty terrible. so I tried using tidy as per this suggestion: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/opensource/how-to-convert-doc-and-odf-files-to-clean-and-lean-html/3708 The HTML is much much cleaner, but something wierd is happening with non-ascii characters like "curly quotes." You can see a minimal example here: 'History and its Publics in a Digital Age' should be surrounded in curly quotes, but instead I'm seeing ??? and ?? The original libreoffice odt and the libreoffice-generated HTML are both in Unicode (UTF-8), so I imagine there's some translation issue I don't understand. You can see the original export here: http://sandbox.hackinghistory.ca/syllabus-original-exported.html Anyone able to replicate this problem and/or ovfercome the problem? I wonder if the issue might be in my tidy config file, but it's pretty straightforward: clean: yes drop-proprietary-attributes: yes drop-empty-paras: yes output-html: yes join-classes: yes join-styles: yes show-body-only: yes force-output: yes preerve-entities: yes input-encoding: utf8 output-encoding: utf8 Any help is much appreciated! Thanks, Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 18:38:42 2012 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 14:38:42 -0400 Subject: strange characters when cleaning HTML with tidy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <503132B2.9060005@gmail.com> On 12-08-19 13:02 , Matt Price wrote: > > Anyone able to replicate this problem and/or ovfercome the problem? Whatever you're viewing and editing it in doesn't understand that your code is UTF-8. > output-html: yes maybe change that to: output-xhtml: yes and I'd replace the input and output encodings with: char-encoding: utf8 cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 19:46:57 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 15:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> Message-ID: | From: Peter King | Here's a question I should know the answer to but I'm too jet-lagged to think | of it. Don't sysadmin when jet-lagged. Go for a walk in the fresh air and sunshine. | I'm rebuilding a system, and I've set up a new boot disk, which involved | creating a new everyday user (call him "joe"). Always create user with the same UID and GID as they have on other systems. Your use case is a good motivating example. So are backups and NFS. I've done that since 1982. Got screwed by progress once: reserving 100 UIDs for the system was generous in 1982 so I started numbering at 101. Fedora and Ubuntu have grabbed the first 500 or 1000 UIDs in recent years. So I have a discontinuity. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 19 20:31:01 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 16:31:01 -0400 Subject: strange characters when cleaning HTML with tidy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50314D05.9030407@sobac.com> Is this a typo or a transcription error? It looks to be missing an "s": > preerve-entities: yes Without having checked the Tidy docs, I suspect it should be "preserve-entities: yes". Perhaps when entities are preserved some of the odd characters will be turned into — and the like. --Bob. On 19/08/2012 1:02 PM, Matt Price wrote: > hi, > > I am trying to use "tidy" to clean up the html generated by > libreoffice from an odt document. > > Since most of my stuff now moves through the web, I usually just work > in emacs and export to my blog. But for highly structured document > I'm still using libreoffice, which is fine till I try to export that > work to HTML and paste it into Wordpress. when I try that, the > formatting ends up pretty terrible. > > so I tried using tidy as per this suggestion: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/opensource/how-to-convert-doc-and-odf-files-to-clean-and-lean-html/3708 > > The HTML is much much cleaner, but something wierd is happening with > non-ascii characters like "curly quotes." You can see a minimal > example here: > > 'History and its Publics in a Digital Age' should be surrounded in > curly quotes, but instead I'm seeing > > ??? > > and > > ?? > > The original libreoffice odt and the libreoffice-generated HTML are > both in Unicode (UTF-8), so I imagine there's some translation issue I > don't understand. You can see the original export here: > http://sandbox.hackinghistory.ca/syllabus-original-exported.html > > Anyone able to replicate this problem and/or ovfercome the problem? I > wonder if the issue might be in my tidy config file, but it's pretty > straightforward: > > clean: yes > drop-proprietary-attributes: yes > drop-empty-paras: yes > output-html: yes > join-classes: yes > join-styles: yes > show-body-only: yes > force-output: yes > preerve-entities: yes > input-encoding: utf8 > output-encoding: utf8 > > Any help is much appreciated! Thanks, > Matt > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 00:41:03 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 20:41:03 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <20120819034008.GB22890@amber> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> <1345341734.4154.2.camel@tecumseth3> <20120819034008.GB22890@amber> Message-ID: <5031879F.9090200@ve3syb.ca> On 12-08-18 11:40 PM, Peter King wrote:> Don't know *why* I didn't have the same luck as you -- near as I can tell, > joe is UID/GID = 1000 on both computers. (Hard to tell on the one that's > failed, admittedly.) Perhaps it has something to do with how the disc is > mounted... Do you have an entry for GID=1000 in the /etc/group? -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 11:10:01 2012 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 07:10:01 -0400 Subject: strange characters when cleaning HTML with tidy? In-Reply-To: <50314D05.9030407-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <50314D05.9030407@sobac.com> Message-ID: I think that typo might have derailed tidy -- fixing it, and making the switch to char-encoding utf8 seems to have solved the problem. On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote: > Is this a typo or a transcription error? It looks to be missing an "s": > >> preerve-entities: yes > > > Without having checked the Tidy docs, I suspect it should be > "preserve-entities: yes". Perhaps when entities are preserved some of the > odd characters will be turned into — and the like. > > --Bob. > > > On 19/08/2012 1:02 PM, Matt Price wrote: >> >> hi, >> >> I am trying to use "tidy" to clean up the html generated by >> libreoffice from an odt document. >> >> Since most of my stuff now moves through the web, I usually just work >> in emacs and export to my blog. But for highly structured document >> I'm still using libreoffice, which is fine till I try to export that >> work to HTML and paste it into Wordpress. when I try that, the >> formatting ends up pretty terrible. >> >> so I tried using tidy as per this suggestion: >> >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/opensource/how-to-convert-doc-and-odf-files-to-clean-and-lean-html/3708 >> >> The HTML is much much cleaner, but something wierd is happening with >> non-ascii characters like "curly quotes." You can see a minimal >> example here: >> >> 'History and its Publics in a Digital Age' should be surrounded in >> curly quotes, but instead I'm seeing >> >> ??? >> >> and >> >> ?? >> >> The original libreoffice odt and the libreoffice-generated HTML are >> both in Unicode (UTF-8), so I imagine there's some translation issue I >> don't understand. You can see the original export here: >> http://sandbox.hackinghistory.ca/syllabus-original-exported.html >> >> Anyone able to replicate this problem and/or ovfercome the problem? I >> wonder if the issue might be in my tidy config file, but it's pretty >> straightforward: >> >> clean: yes >> drop-proprietary-attributes: yes >> drop-empty-paras: yes >> output-html: yes >> join-classes: yes >> join-styles: yes >> show-body-only: yes >> force-output: yes >> preerve-entities: yes >> input-encoding: utf8 >> output-encoding: utf8 >> >> Any help is much appreciated! Thanks, >> Matt >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 15:44:37 2012 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:44:37 -0400 Subject: Trinity Kernel (was: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've not used it, but my coworker has it on his Galaxy Nexus phone and Nexus 7 tablet, and has been able to reliably overclock them both without them becoming unstable, and increasing their battery life. Not sure the details on how all that works, but it's pretty well known in the Android hacking scene that most of the default kernel configs for devices aren't terribly optiimized. I was mostly meaning that with 3rd party kernels, you have more control over what modules are loaded, so you might have a chance of loading it more easily that way, but I have no "proof" of that, more of a hunch. -jason On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 9:18 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > The website is a bit sparse on details. What's added/improved in this > kernel? > On Aug 15, 2012 10:23 AM, "Jason Shaw" wrote: > >> I've heard great reviews from my coworker with a Nexus 7 using the >> Trinity Kernel: http://www.derkernel.com/jb-seven.php >> >> Not sure if it has the required drivers though. >> >> -jason >> >> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >>> How about the 3Rd-party kernels? Haven't tried one on my Nexus yet, but >>> on my GS2 the Siyah kernel boosted my features and performance. >>> On Aug 15, 2012 9:52 AM, "Evan Leibovitch" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all. >>>> >>>> I've taken delivery of a Nexus 7 tablet and am very happy with it >>>> (questions welcomed). >>>> >>>> One thing that I was hoping to do, when travelling with it, was to have >>>> some method of using wired Ethernet with it (typically, when staying in a >>>> hotel room that has a wired Ethernet drop but poor or no in-room wifi, this >>>> has happened a few times). >>>> >>>> Plan A is to use the USB "on the go" spec to attach an Ethernet-to-USB >>>> connector. >>>> Plan B is to get a cheap wifi router, >>>> which is more expensive and much bulkier. >>>> >>>> I've taken possession of item A, a $3 thing from eBay, >>>> cheap enough that it didn't work I would toss it. >>>> >>>> When I plug it in and run `lsusb` on the Nexus 7, the hardware is seen >>>> but there's no driver. I get >>>> Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0fe6:9700 >>>> >>>> When I plug the same device into Ubuntu, it works fine and from `lsusb` >>>> I get >>>> Bus 002 Device 011: ID 0fe6:9700 Kontron (Industrial Computer Source / >>>> ICS Advent) DM9601 Fast Ethernet Adapter >>>> >>>> I've been able to find Linux drivers for thisand in fact it's been made to work with the Motorola >>>> Xoom and Asus >>>> Transformer . >>>> >>>> Could some kind person here help me turn this driver into something >>>> usable on the stock N7 kernel? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Evan Leibovitch >>>> Toronto Canada >>>> >>>> Em: evan at telly dot org >>>> Sk: evanleibovitch >>>> Tw: el56 >>>> >>>> >>>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 15:47:52 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 08:47:52 -0700 Subject: Trinity Kernel (was: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have the "Siyah" kernel on my GS2. I don't overclock, but it did allow me to install busybox, openvpn, etc. It also gets better battery life than the corresponding stock kernel. On Aug 20, 2012 8:45 AM, "Jason Shaw" wrote: > I've not used it, but my coworker has it on his Galaxy Nexus phone and > Nexus 7 tablet, and has been able to reliably overclock them both without > them becoming unstable, and increasing their battery life. Not sure the > details on how all that works, but it's pretty well known in the Android > hacking scene that most of the default kernel configs for devices aren't > terribly optiimized. > > I was mostly meaning that with 3rd party kernels, you have more control > over what modules are loaded, so you might have a chance of loading it more > easily that way, but I have no "proof" of that, more of a hunch. > > -jason > > On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 9:18 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> The website is a bit sparse on details. What's added/improved in this >> kernel? >> On Aug 15, 2012 10:23 AM, "Jason Shaw" wrote: >> >>> I've heard great reviews from my coworker with a Nexus 7 using the >>> Trinity Kernel: http://www.derkernel.com/jb-seven.php >>> >>> Not sure if it has the required drivers though. >>> >>> -jason >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >>> >>>> How about the 3Rd-party kernels? Haven't tried one on my Nexus yet, but >>>> on my GS2 the Siyah kernel boosted my features and performance. >>>> On Aug 15, 2012 9:52 AM, "Evan Leibovitch" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all. >>>>> >>>>> I've taken delivery of a Nexus 7 tablet and am very happy with it >>>>> (questions welcomed). >>>>> >>>>> One thing that I was hoping to do, when travelling with it, was to >>>>> have some method of using wired Ethernet with it (typically, when staying >>>>> in a hotel room that has a wired Ethernet drop but poor or no in-room wifi, >>>>> this has happened a few times). >>>>> >>>>> Plan A is to use the USB "on the go" spec to attach an Ethernet-to-USB >>>>> connector. >>>>> Plan B is to get a cheap wifi router, >>>>> which is more expensive and much bulkier. >>>>> >>>>> I've taken possession of item A, a $3 thing from eBay, >>>>> cheap enough that it didn't work I would toss it. >>>>> >>>>> When I plug it in and run `lsusb` on the Nexus 7, the hardware is seen >>>>> but there's no driver. I get >>>>> Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0fe6:9700 >>>>> >>>>> When I plug the same device into Ubuntu, it works fine and from >>>>> `lsusb` I get >>>>> Bus 002 Device 011: ID 0fe6:9700 Kontron (Industrial Computer Source / >>>>> ICS Advent) DM9601 Fast Ethernet Adapter >>>>> >>>>> I've been able to find Linux drivers for thisand in fact it's been made to work with the Motorola >>>>> Xoom and Asus >>>>> Transformer >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> Could some kind person here help me turn this driver into something >>>>> usable on the stock N7 kernel? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Evan Leibovitch >>>>> Toronto Canada >>>>> >>>>> Em: evan at telly dot org >>>>> Sk: evanleibovitch >>>>> Tw: el56 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 18:06:25 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:06:25 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> Message-ID: <20120820180625.GP1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 09:50:08PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > Here's a question I should know the answer to but I'm too jet-lagged to think > of it. I'm rebuilding a system, and I've set up a new boot disk, which involved > creating a new everyday user (call him "joe"). I've mounted the old hard disk > with lots of stuff on it that belonged to joe on the old failed system. But now > while the files are identified as owned by joe as the user, the group id is not > "joe" or "user" but "1002" (no such group). I suppose I could run a massive > find-and-chgrp command, but I can't be the first person to face this problem, > and there must be a simple solution, which I just can't think of right now. > Anyone care to tell me the simple and obvious one-line solution? Even two lines > would do. Thanks. What does that have to do with old modems? Or did you just hijack the thread for fun? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 18:18:08 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:18:08 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <20120820180625.GP1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> <20120820180625.GP1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <50327F60.3020704@utoronto.ca> On 12-08-20 02:06 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 09:50:08PM -0400, Peter King wrote: >> Here's a question I should know the answer to but I'm too jet-lagged to think >> of it. I'm rebuilding a system, and I've set up a new boot disk, which involved >> creating a new everyday user (call him "joe"). I've mounted the old hard disk >> with lots of stuff on it that belonged to joe on the old failed system. But now >> while the files are identified as owned by joe as the user, the group id is not >> "joe" or "user" but "1002" (no such group). I suppose I could run a massive >> find-and-chgrp command, but I can't be the first person to face this problem, >> and there must be a simple solution, which I just can't think of right now. >> Anyone care to tell me the simple and obvious one-line solution? Even two lines >> would do. Thanks. > > What does that have to do with old modems? > > Or did you just hijack the thread for fun? Huh? That's a message that *is* the original thread. This jet-lag business seems contagious :p Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 18:51:51 2012 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:51:51 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <50327F60.3020704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> <20120820180625.GP1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50327F60.3020704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <50328747.3030300@rogers.com> On 20/08/12 2:18 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 12-08-20 02:06 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> What does that have to do with old modems? >> >> Or did you just hijack the thread for fun? > > Huh? That's a message that *is* the original thread. This jet-lag > business seems contagious :p It shows up under the old modem thread in my email reader too (Thunderbird) - probably because the new "thread" was started by using "Reply" and changing the subject line. Some email readers happen to show a new thread, but it looks like a hijacked thread here. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 18:54:03 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:54:03 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <50327F60.3020704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> <20120820180625.GP1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50327F60.3020704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20120820185403.GQ1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 02:18:08PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Huh? That's a message that *is* the original thread. This jet-lag > business seems contagious :p No it was clearly a followup to the modem thread as any threaded mail client would show. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 19:00:16 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:00:16 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <20120820185403.GQ1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> <20120820180625.GP1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50327F60.3020704@utoronto.ca> <20120820185403.GQ1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <50328940.3010800@utoronto.ca> On 12-08-20 02:54 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 02:18:08PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Huh? That's a message that *is* the original thread. This jet-lag >> business seems contagious :p > > No it was clearly a followup to the modem thread as any threaded mail > client would show. Ah ha! My ruthless daily purging of mailing lists doesn't show the original. But I think we can still excuse the OP given the first sentence is a disclaimer about jet lag.. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 19:00:35 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:00:35 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <20120820185403.GQ1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> <20120820180625.GP1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50327F60.3020704@utoronto.ca> <20120820185403.GQ1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > > Huh? That's a message that *is* the original thread. This jet-lag > > business seems contagious :p > > No it was clearly a followup to the modem thread as any threaded mail > client would show. > Interesting, its under the proper thread for those using gmail. He must have done something weird which is tripping some of the MUA William > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 19:11:05 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> <20120820180625.GP1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50327F60.3020704@utoronto.ca> <20120820185403.GQ1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi | Interesting, its under the proper thread for those using gmail. He must | have done something weird which is tripping some of the MUA No, your MUA is ignoring things that are clearly in the header: | From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 21:50:20 2012 | Message-ID: <20120819015007.GA22599 at amber> | References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299--f98ek0+W9Kru0SvZEyS9JBekPp51BxWP at public.gmane.org> | | <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> | | In-Reply-To: That references Colin's message: | From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 16:04:06 2012 | In-Reply-To: <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> | References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299--f98ek0+W9Kru0SvZEyS9JBekPp51BxWP at public.gmane.org> | | <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> | Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 16:03:58 -0400 | Message-ID: | Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Toronto FreeNet | From: Colin McGregor It is worthwhile learning to read mail headers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 19:42:45 2012 From: cccharlz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (charles chris) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:42:45 -0400 Subject: http://drpcdr.ca/drpcdr_newsletter_august_20_2012.pdf Message-ID: http://drpcdr.ca/drpcdr_newsletter_august_20_2012.pdf Just completed my newsletter for 2012 -- http://drpcdr.ca http://jobcircle.ca 416 398 3772 OR 647 453 3327 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 19:45:29 2012 From: lists-5ZoueyuiTZiw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:45:29 -0400 Subject: http://drpcdr.ca/drpcdr_newsletter_august_20_2012.pdf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <503293D9.6060908@alteeve.ca> On 08/20/2012 03:42 PM, charles chris wrote: > http://drpcdr.ca/drpcdr_newsletter_august_20_2012.pdf > > Just completed my newsletter for 2012 This has nothing to do with Linux in general or TLUG specifically. Why spam this list? -- Digimer Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 20:04:15 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:04:15 -0400 Subject: http://drpcdr.ca/drpcdr_newsletter_august_20_2012.pdf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:42 PM, charles chris wrote: > Just completed my newsletter for 2012 A list of links that seems to start with pointers to "pirated" versions of Windows and related software seems enormously inappropriate to this mailing list. Were you perhaps looking for the "W00t! W3'r3 all W1nd0z3 Pirates!" mailing list instead? This is the local LINUX users group list. Postings should preferably have some relevance to Linux. We sometimes diverge from that when some local community matter attracts interest. But the promotion of illegal activities relating to OTHER operating systems should pretty clearly be inappropriate. http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------------------------- This is a general purpose list -- for Linux announcements, technical questions, and other information. Subscribing to this list will automatically subscribe you to the GTALUG-Announce list. This list is for the discussion of Linux related issues, news, problems, and ideas. This list is not anyone's personal soapbox. It is not for the discussion of political, social, or religious issues, bad jokes, personal rants or similar non Linux related discussion. Unsolicited commercial advertising will not be tolerated. Any subscribers who offers or requests pirated software, license keys or cracks, and similar will be dropped from the list without warning. Off topic messages will not be tolerated or endorsed. First time offenders will be warned. Repeat offenders will be restricted from posting to the list for a 1 month period, or until such time that the list managers feel the offender is capable of following the rules. -------------------------------- Actually, according to the rules, it appears likely that posting that newsletter runs afoul of the more drastic "dropped from the list without warning" rule. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 20:04:22 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:04:22 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> <20120820180625.GP1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50327F60.3020704@utoronto.ca> <20120820185403.GQ1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120820200422.GA28063@amber> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 03:11:05PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | Interesting, its under the proper thread for those using gmail. He must > | have done something weird which is tripping some of the MUA > > No, your MUA is ignoring things that are clearly in the header: > > | From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 18 21:50:20 2012 > > | Message-ID: <20120819015007.GA22599 at amber> > | References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299--f98ek0+W9Kru0SvZEyS9JBekPp51BxWP at public.gmane.org> > | > | <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> > | > > | In-Reply-To: Mea culpa. I plead continuing jet-lag. That's what I get for using "reply" and changing the subject:. Odd that gmail doesn't catch this. Apologies, and no more hijackings. I solved the question I posted by doing a global find: $ find . -gid 1002 -exec chgrp joe {} + which ran very quickly and did the trick. The pre-emptive strategy (Chris?) of getting it right first is clearly the Right Thing, but this fix was a decent second-best. I don't have anything to contribute about modems. Apparently I have at least one in a laptop, but I don't even know if it works under Linux -- never had the need to find out. How the times have changed. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 20:25:07 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:25:07 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: <502BFAC2.7060605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> <502BFAC2.7060605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20120820202507.GA28897@amber> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 03:38:42PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Why not use WiFi tethering? That's what I do. I enable the WiFi > hotspot function of my phone and use that. Works well and I don't need > any cables. Also, it supports tethering up to 8 devices. Tried it, also doesn't work. I guess Rogers is a step ahead this time. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 20:29:54 2012 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:29:54 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120810204626.GB1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120820202953.GB28897@amber> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 04:46:26PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I got an Asus X79 Sabertooth with an intel core-i7 3820 and a 4x8GB pack > of Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 ram. I got a SCBSK-2100 cpu fan since it has > to fit in an HTPC case and height is a slight problem sometimes. I got something quite similar: Asus Sabertooth X79, Intel core-i7 3930k, and the same memory pack; I added an Intel 240G SSD and a CPU thermal cooler, all in a CoolerMaster HAF 951 (currently on sale). It runs very fast, reasonably quiet, and very cool. So far stable as can be. Haven't tried anything with USB3 yet. Thanks to all for advice! -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 20:39:29 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:39:29 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: <20120820202507.GA28897@amber> References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> <502BFAC2.7060605@rogers.com> <20120820202507.GA28897@amber> Message-ID: <5032A081.8040902@rogers.com> Peter King wrote: > >> >Why not use WiFi tethering? That's what I do. I enable the WiFi >> >hotspot function of my phone and use that. Works well and I don't need >> >any cables. Also, it supports tethering up to 8 devices. > Tried it, also doesn't work. I guess Rogers is a step ahead this time. Why do you say it doesn't work? Rogers promotes tethering in some of their ads. IIRC, only the smallest data plan doesn't allow tethering. Given your problems with both tethering and using a portable hot spot, I suspect your problems lie elsewhere. With my phone, I had to configure the hot spot feature and then enable it when I want to use it. Have you done that? To configure the hot spot feature on my phone, I had to enter a Network SSID, security type and password. Security type should be WPA2 PSK, unless you have older hardware that doesn't support it. Here's some info from the Rogers site: "What is tethering Tethering is the use of your phone as a wireless modem to connect to the Internet from your computer. If you subscribe to a data plan which includes at least 1GB of data transmission and if you have a compatible device, you may use tethering as part of the volume of data included in your plan at no additional charge." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 20:51:32 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:51:32 -0400 Subject: Probably over the edge... Message-ID: With the most recent posting to publicize a newsletter that seems to be promoting Windows "Warez" including pointers that seem to be to illegal copies of Windows binaries as well as keys to similar, it looks as though "craig chris" has leapt straight to activity that our mailing list documentation indicates leads to banning: "Any subscribers who offers or requests pirated software, license keys or cracks, and similar will be dropped from the list without warning." -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 20:53:52 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:53:52 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 3:46 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Peter King > > | Here's a question I should know the answer to but I'm too jet-lagged to think > | of it. > > Don't sysadmin when jet-lagged. Go for a walk in the fresh air and > sunshine. > > | I'm rebuilding a system, and I've set up a new boot disk, which involved > | creating a new everyday user (call him "joe"). > > Always create user with the same UID and GID as they have on other > systems. Your use case is a good motivating example. So are backups > and NFS. > > I've done that since 1982. Got screwed by progress once: reserving > 100 UIDs for the system was generous in 1982 so I started numbering at > 101. Fedora and Ubuntu have grabbed the first 500 or 1000 UIDs in > recent years. So I have a discontinuity. I have wound up "hacking" my /etc/hosts and /etc/groups files on new systems. This actually sounds like the sort of thing that would be interesting to have a system management tool handle for me. CFengine3 has a built-in thing for something like this: https://cfengine.com/manuals/cf3-solutions#Editing-password-or-group-files https://cfengine.com/manuals/cf3-solutions#Editing-password-or-group-files-custom The first URL indicates how to edit existing users/groups The second one indicates how one might add additional users. I imagine that this makes use of adduser, so that /etc/shadow is managed properly, if present. (And on some systems, the files aren't /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow...) I suppose this would not work on a system where you're using LDAP or RADIUS to manage users. That's probably a merit to using LDAP/RADIUS. CFengine2 had a way of indicating that files and directories should have particular owners, and, as it handled that symbolically, you could have a script handle a lot of files "en masse." That's a different aspect/approach. I wonder if there's a mechanism for "Kickstart-like" mechanisms to inject custom user requests early-on so as to avert those UIDs and GIDs being used for something else. Not evident in the Kickstart docs: -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 21:16:46 2012 From: andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Heagle) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:16:46 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> References: <235864859-1345317749-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-999093299-@b13.c24.bise6.blackberry> <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> Message-ID: A little late, but whatever You can do this: chown --from=joe:1002 -R joe:joe /path This would only change file ownerships that match the --from. Throw in a -v to log the changes if you like. Andrew On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 9:50 PM, Peter King wrote: > Here's a question I should know the answer to but I'm too jet-lagged to > think > of it. I'm rebuilding a system, and I've set up a new boot disk, which > involved > creating a new everyday user (call him "joe"). I've mounted the old hard > disk > with lots of stuff on it that belonged to joe on the old failed system. > But now > while the files are identified as owned by joe as the user, the group id > is not > "joe" or "user" but "1002" (no such group). I suppose I could run a massive > find-and-chgrp command, but I can't be the first person to face this > problem, > and there must be a simple solution, which I just can't think of right now. > Anyone care to tell me the simple and obvious one-line solution? Even two > lines > would do. Thanks. > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 21:31:24 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:31:24 -0400 Subject: UID, GID, and all that In-Reply-To: <20120820200422.GA28063@amber> References: <000001cd7d7b$871c7150$955553f0$@ca> <20120819015007.GA22599@amber> <20120820180625.GP1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <50327F60.3020704@utoronto.ca> <20120820185403.GQ1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120820200422.GA28063@amber> Message-ID: <20120820213124.GR1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 04:04:22PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > Mea culpa. I plead continuing jet-lag. That's what I get for using "reply" > and changing the subject:. Odd that gmail doesn't catch this. Apologies, and > no more hijackings. > > > I solved the question I posted by doing a global find: > > $ find . -gid 1002 -exec chgrp joe {} + > > which ran very quickly and did the trick. The pre-emptive strategy (Chris?) of > getting it right first is clearly the Right Thing, but this fix was a decent > second-best. Seems like an excellent solution. > I don't have anything to contribute about modems. Apparently I have at least > one in a laptop, but I don't even know if it works under Linux -- never had > the need to find out. How the times have changed. Oh right, winmodems were a problem for a long time and then modems went away. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 21:33:00 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:33:00 -0400 Subject: Probably over the edge... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120820213300.GS1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 04:51:32PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > With the most recent posting to publicize a newsletter that seems to > be promoting Windows "Warez" including pointers that seem to be to > illegal copies of Windows binaries as well as keys to similar, it > looks as though "craig chris" has leapt straight to activity that our > mailing list documentation indicates leads to banning: "Any > subscribers who offers or requests pirated software, license keys or > cracks, and similar will be dropped from the list without warning." GTALUG Board has the same email address as GTALUG? Nifty. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 21:35:32 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:35:32 -0400 Subject: Probably over the edge... In-Reply-To: <20120820213300.GS1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120820213300.GS1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 04:51:32PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >> With the most recent posting to publicize a newsletter that seems to >> be promoting Windows "Warez" including pointers that seem to be to >> illegal copies of Windows binaries as well as keys to similar, it >> looks as though "craig chris" has leapt straight to activity that our >> mailing list documentation indicates leads to banning: "Any >> subscribers who offers or requests pirated software, license keys or >> cracks, and similar will be dropped from the list without warning." > > GTALUG Board has the same email address as GTALUG? Nifty. Oopsie... :-) -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 21:37:03 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:37:03 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120820202953.GB28897@amber> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120820202953.GB28897@amber> Message-ID: <20120820213703.GT1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 04:29:54PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > I got something quite similar: Asus Sabertooth X79, Intel core-i7 3930k, > and the same memory pack; I added an Intel 240G SSD and a CPU thermal > cooler, all in a CoolerMaster HAF 951 (currently on sale). It runs very > fast, reasonably quiet, and very cool. So far stable as can be. Haven't > tried anything with USB3 yet. Thanks to all for advice! Oh one of the unlocked CPUs. I figured the 3820 was sufficiently fast for the job and a fair chunk cheaper. I do have a pair of Vortex 3 120GB drives in hardware raid1. They are nice and fast. The intel's should be even faster I would think. I do find the 32GB of ram to be quite something. I also just noticed that the mythfrontend seems to leak: 6103 mythtv 20 0 22.7g 14g 0 R 100.1 47.4 25919:58 mythfrontend Isn't that nice? Seems to be spinning on the CPU as well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 23:07:02 2012 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:07:02 -0400 Subject: Probably over the edge... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120820190702.3e05bd2d@herring_sucker.example.net> On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:51:32 -0400 Christopher Browne wrote: > With the most recent posting to publicize a newsletter that seems to > be promoting Windows "Warez" including pointers that seem to be to > illegal copies of Windows binaries as well as keys to similar, it > looks as though "craig chris" has leapt straight to activity that our > mailing list documentation indicates leads to banning: "Any > subscribers who offers or requests pirated software, license keys or > cracks, and similar will be dropped from the list without warning." > Perhaps many of you didn't remember his name. I did. He's been bounced off of this list at least twice before for this behaviour. In fact, I think the first time was way back when Jan Carlson was moderating the list. You might remember when he spammed the list a few years back with some dating service stuff. Since he's a repeat offender, perhaps a lifetime ban is in order? -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org gstrom57-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 20 23:51:56 2012 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:51:56 -0400 Subject: Probably over the edge... In-Reply-To: References: <20120820213300.GS1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120820195156.a1a78b5a706ed779a9a0d481@eol.ca> On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:35:32 -0400 Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 04:51:32PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > >> With the most recent posting to publicize a newsletter that seems to > >> be promoting Windows "Warez" including pointers that seem to be to > >> illegal copies of Windows binaries as well as keys to similar, it > >> looks as though "craig chris" has leapt straight to activity that our > >> mailing list documentation indicates leads to banning: "Any > >> subscribers who offers or requests pirated software, license keys or > >> cracks, and similar will be dropped from the list without warning." > > > > GTALUG Board has the same email address as GTALUG? Nifty. > > Oopsie... :-) > > > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" I don't think the Lone Ranger actually shoots people does he? We need someone nastier to handle pirate spammers. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org jhowardgibson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 00:51:55 2012 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 20:51:55 -0400 Subject: Probably over the edge... In-Reply-To: <20120820195156.a1a78b5a706ed779a9a0d481-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20120820213300.GS1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120820195156.a1a78b5a706ed779a9a0d481@eol.ca> Message-ID: On 20/08/12 07:51 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:35:32 -0400 > Christopher Browne wrote: > >> -- >> When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the >> question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > I don't think the Lone Ranger actually shoots people does he? > > We need someone nastier to handle pirate spammers. > What would Admiral Horatio Hornblower do? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 03:56:01 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 20:56:01 -0700 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20120820202953.GB28897@amber> References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120820202953.GB28897@amber> Message-ID: I've been looking at some of the socket fm1 boards with amd cpu/gpu combined. can anyone comment on how those work in 'nix? any driver issues? On Aug 20, 2012 1:30 PM, "Peter King" wrote: > On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 04:46:26PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > I got an Asus X79 Sabertooth with an intel core-i7 3820 and a 4x8GB pack > > of Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 ram. I got a SCBSK-2100 cpu fan since it has > > to fit in an HTPC case and height is a slight problem sometimes. > > I got something quite similar: Asus Sabertooth X79, Intel core-i7 3930k, > and the same memory pack; I added an Intel 240G SSD and a CPU thermal > cooler, all in a CoolerMaster HAF 951 (currently on sale). It runs very > fast, reasonably quiet, and very cool. So far stable as can be. Haven't > tried anything with USB3 yet. Thanks to all for advice! > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 04:14:09 2012 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 00:14:09 -0400 Subject: Rogers, Android, tethering... In-Reply-To: <5032A081.8040902-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20120815180732.GA22041@amber> <502BFAC2.7060605@rogers.com> <20120820202507.GA28897@amber> <5032A081.8040902@rogers.com> Message-ID: <50330B11.6000804@sobac.com> Maybe it's the phone or the firmware, not the carrier. I'm on Wind Mobile, which does support tethering. Unfortunately, the latest firmware I've put on my phone doesn't support USB tethering well (keeps dropping), and WiFi tethering doesn't work at all. It's an LG P999 phone and I'm currently running the Genesis ICS variation of Cyanogenmod. The stable CM7.2 release works fine, but it's a hog on power, and so *old*! Any suggestions for stable ICS or Jellybean firmware for the P999 are appreciated... --Bob. On 2012-08-20 16:39, James Knott wrote: > Peter King wrote: >>> >Why not use WiFi tethering? That's what I do. I enable the WiFi >>> >hotspot function of my phone and use that. Works well and I don't need >>> >any cables. Also, it supports tethering up to 8 devices. >> Tried it, also doesn't work. I guess Rogers is a step ahead this time. > > Why do you say it doesn't work? Rogers promotes tethering in some of > their ads. IIRC, only the smallest data plan doesn't allow tethering. > Given your problems with both tethering and using a portable hot spot, I > suspect your problems lie elsewhere. With my phone, I had to configure > the hot spot feature and then enable it when I want to use it. Have you > done that? > > To configure the hot spot feature on my phone, I had to enter a Network > SSID, security type and password. Security type should be WPA2 PSK, > unless you have older hardware that doesn't support it. > > > Here's some info from the Rogers site: > > "What is tethering > > Tethering is the use of your phone as a wireless modem to connect to the > Internet from your computer. If you subscribe to a data plan which > includes at least 1GB of data transmission and if you have a compatible > device, you may use tethering as part of the volume of data included in > your plan at no additional charge." > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 14:17:47 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:17:47 -0400 Subject: New computer, recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <20120810203222.GA32416@amber> <20120810204626.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120820202953.GB28897@amber> Message-ID: <20120821141747.GU1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 08:56:01PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I've been looking at some of the socket fm1 boards with amd cpu/gpu > combined. can anyone comment on how those work in 'nix? any driver issues? Well I certainly wouldn't try it. My experience with the ATI drivers was awful, and they also drop support for chips way sooner than is realistic (they drop support from the current drivers while still selling the hardware they are dropping). It's a shame AMD bought ATI since now you are stuck with ATI's chipsets and drivers to go along with the otehrwise very nice AMD CPUs. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 14:33:12 2012 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:33:12 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article Message-ID: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> I have tremendous respect and admiration for Poul-Henning Kamp, and his most recent article in the ACM queue has only bolstered it. He discusses some of the failings of the Bazaar software development model championed by the likes of Eric Raymond. Given his background and his lifelong involvement with free software like FreeBSD and Varnish, I think much of what he has to say rings true. For example, he shows an autoconf macro and then explains: "That is the sorry reality of the bazaar Raymond praised in his book: a pile of old festering hacks, endlessly copied and pasted by a clueless generation of IT "professionals" who wouldn't recognize sound IT architecture if you hit them over the head with it." http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2349257 Worth a read. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 15:38:19 2012 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:38:19 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <50339C28.5000704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: https://lwn.net/Articles/512422/On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I have tremendous respect and admiration for Poul-Henning Kamp, and his > most recent article in the ACM queue has only bolstered it. > > He discusses some of the failings of the Bazaar software development > model championed by the likes of Eric Raymond. Given his background and > his lifelong involvement with free software like FreeBSD and Varnish, I > think much of what he has to say rings true. > > For example, he shows an autoconf macro and then explains: "That is the > sorry reality of the bazaar Raymond praised in his book: a pile of old > festering hacks, endlessly copied and pasted by a clueless generation of > IT "professionals" who wouldn't recognize sound IT architecture if you > hit them over the head with it." > > http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2349257 > > Worth a read. > > Jamon > Commentary (including criticisms and rebuttals) on LWN is also worth a read: https://lwn.net/Articles/512422/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 15:47:48 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:47:48 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 21 August 2012 11:38, Andrej Marjan wrote: > https://lwn.net/Articles/512422/On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Jamon > Camisso wrote: >> >> I have tremendous respect and admiration for Poul-Henning Kamp, and his >> most recent article in the ACM queue has only bolstered it. >> >> He discusses some of the failings of the Bazaar software development >> model championed by the likes of Eric Raymond. Given his background and >> his lifelong involvement with free software like FreeBSD and Varnish, I >> think much of what he has to say rings true. >> >> For example, he shows an autoconf macro and then explains: "That is the >> sorry reality of the bazaar Raymond praised in his book: a pile of old >> festering hacks, endlessly copied and pasted by a clueless generation of >> IT "professionals" who wouldn't recognize sound IT architecture if you >> hit them over the head with it." >> >> http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2349257 >> >> Worth a read. >> >> Jamon > > > Commentary (including criticisms and rebuttals) on LWN is also worth a read: > https://lwn.net/Articles/512422/ I'm inclined to agree with the first line of that page: "Here's a troll of sorts by Poul-Henning Kamp ..." His opening paragraphs essentially say "99% of the people in IT are a bunch of morons." I'm not saying he's necessarily wrong in all his points, but when he started off by insulting the majority of his readership, I gave up reading. He seemed to be asserting that if you can't do portability you're incompetent. Portability is good, but a person isn't necessarily a bad programmer just because they've worked in one environment for their entire career. Whether or not non-portable programs written for one platform should be shared, and the problems that follow if they are - that's another question. I realize he's trying to address that question, but the way he's doing it isn't going to win friends. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 21 20:06:05 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 16:06:05 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <50339C28.5000704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I have tremendous respect and admiration for Poul-Henning Kamp, and his > most recent article in the ACM queue has only bolstered it. > > He discusses some of the failings of the Bazaar software development > model championed by the likes of Eric Raymond. Given his background and > his lifelong involvement with free software like FreeBSD and Varnish, I > think much of what he has to say rings true. > > For example, he shows an autoconf macro and then explains: "That is the > sorry reality of the bazaar Raymond praised in his book: a pile of old > festering hacks, endlessly copied and pasted by a clueless generation of > IT "professionals" who wouldn't recognize sound IT architecture if you > hit them over the head with it." > > http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2349257 > > Worth a read. And it's a bit unfair, too. Getting code to a state where it *can* be reused is a mighty difficult task. We got Unix as a followup from a number of systems that might be regarded as "failed" (which mightn't be entirely fair, but let me "go with this"...)... - MULTICS tried abstracting a lot of layers, and introduced the notion of building an OS in a high level language (PL/1 is readily arguable to be higher level than C!). - C followed BCPL and B. - Unix was originally written in assembly language, and redoing in C was a later stage. A lot of the things that are *good* about Unix are things that required experimentation and, effectively, *failed* earlier attempts that had to be discarded when implementing Unix. I agree that we're getting some hugely messy systems these days. I have been working on some RPM "spec" files, and building something that "works" seems to be a trial-and-error task where everyone I talk with uses recipes that they have discovered they could use, as opposed to knowing are intentionally valid. The docs haven't guided me nearly as much as I would have liked. Is the result well-engineered? Based on the things I don't know, I'm pretty sure not. I disagree with Kamp's assertion that a lack of understanding of portability is the root of the problems; that's an expression of the deeper problem that people haven't done quite enough abstraction to understand what problems they were trying to solve, and how to implement the solutions WELL. That's a difficult set of tasks, and while the IT industry may well have lots of idiots, the supposedly smarter, more ambitious folks don't necessarily do better. Ongoing standards efforts for C, C++, and C Standard Library show off a whopping lot of messiness, too, and they don't let idiots near those nearly as easily. I watch the goings-on surrounding Go with interest, as the implementers had involvement with Unix and C, and seem to be trying to create something cleaner. (Interesting recent essay on this: I don't think it explains the matter enough, but it's trying.) I'm watching what's going on with Puppet with interest, but a bit of a baleful eye, too. One of the "doctrines" seems to be that everything should be a defined package (which is why I'm writing RPM .spec files ;-)). I get the feeling that the doctrine has, behind it, the imagined principle that 'stuff that's managed via packages and thus fit into a distribution is better/more maintainable/usable/...' But the spawning (and, later, usually, deaths) of zillions of Linux distributions seem to put some lie to this; if RPM .spec files become a hot, in-language, I suspect a result of this is a lot of bad RPM packages. I see huge messes in two places, packaging (which Kamp observes on), and libraries (which I think he only touches very indirectly). Part of the proliferation of zillions of packages, and of the proliferation of dependencies (which Kamp notices, in his observation of the need for graphics/libtiff as a dependency for firefox) results from libraries being not thought through sufficiently carefully. I presume that the graphics/libtiff dependency he observes results from there being some other library that Firefox uses being one where it proved attractive to include graphics/libtiff, because, while Firefox mayn't really want to use .TIFF files, perhaps some other app might, and might want that usage integrated into library functionality. I think we've "blown" something here, and it isn't remotely just Firefox or libtiff that are affected. If you want to build Postgres, at configuration time, you need to pick from the following set of possible add-ons: --with-tcl build Tcl modules (PL/Tcl) --with-perl build Perl modules (PL/Perl) --with-python build Python modules (PL/Python) --with-gssapi build with GSSAPI support --with-krb5 build with Kerberos 5 support --with-pam build with PAM support --with-ldap build with LDAP support --with-bonjour build with Bonjour support --with-openssl build with OpenSSL support --with-selinux build with SELinux support --without-readline do not use GNU Readline nor BSD Libedit for editing --with-libedit-preferred prefer BSD Libedit over GNU Readline --with-ossp-uuid build contrib/uuid-ossp, requires OSSP UUID library --with-libxml build with XML support --with-libxslt use XSLT support when building contrib/xml2 --without-zlib do not use Zlib None of these optional additions are evil, but, given this set of options, there are 2^14*3, or 49152 different ways to configure Postgres, and whatever way you choose, you have to pick at compile time. What is a distribution maker to do? There are likely a *few* options that can be implied from the system (e.g. - no value to inclusion of SELinux support if running on FreeBSD), but just about any option left off is liable to make enemies, and hence, if you install something that depends on PostgreSQL, you're liable to be drawing in a series of libraries that you mightn't have expected. I think we've "blown it" in the sense that support for these sorts of things are NOT sufficiently abstracted that you can build without needing to pull in rather more dependencies than you wanted. And that's true for libraries and packages, both. We may be suffering a language problem, as our typical implementation languages, C and C++, have to statically resolve interfaces for the above sorts of things at compile time. The notable example of attempt to define dynamic interfaces came in CORBA, with Dynamic / "Any" interfaces. See . The implementation of this in C is just heinous, and that may be the root of some of the problem. Android has an interesting notion for interfacing to extra things in the form of what they call "Intents" I'm not sure I have more of a conclusion. I don't think using Android is an answer to the "problems of grubby bazaars." Go would be more nearly the shape of an answer, but reimplementing everything in a new language is a crummy thing to need to do. But *another* disease disease we have is the one of building things into gigantic monolithic applications. That's certainly a reasonable way to characterize the "desktop" pieces like web browsers, most email clients, the "integrated word processor/spreadsheet/presentation package", and, for that matter, a lot of the Desktop Environment apps for GNOME and KDE. To build things that are more keeping with Unix Philosophy might essentially require redesigning them, at which point, reimplementing in a new language might not be the biggest part of the task. -- "If Ada became the hot, in-language you would see a lot more bad code in Ada." -- Thaddeus L. Olczyk , comp.lang.C++ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 01:26:14 2012 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 21:26:14 -0400 Subject: Trinity Kernel (was: Need help for an Android Ethernet driver) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You don't need to install a new ROM or kernel to get busybox. Rooting is enough, which is all I've done so far. - Evan On 20 August 2012 11:47, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I have the "Siyah" kernel on my GS2. I don't overclock, but it did allow > me to install busybox, openvpn, etc. It also gets better battery life than > the corresponding stock kernel. > On Aug 20, 2012 8:45 AM, "Jason Shaw" wrote: > >> I've not used it, but my coworker has it on his Galaxy Nexus phone and >> Nexus 7 tablet, and has been able to reliably overclock them both without >> them becoming unstable, and increasing their battery life. Not sure the >> details on how all that works, but it's pretty well known in the Android >> hacking scene that most of the default kernel configs for devices aren't >> terribly optiimized. >> >> I was mostly meaning that with 3rd party kernels, you have more control >> over what modules are loaded, so you might have a chance of loading it more >> easily that way, but I have no "proof" of that, more of a hunch. >> >> -jason >> >> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 9:18 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >>> The website is a bit sparse on details. What's added/improved in this >>> kernel? >>> On Aug 15, 2012 10:23 AM, "Jason Shaw" wrote: >>> >>>> I've heard great reviews from my coworker with a Nexus 7 using the >>>> Trinity Kernel: http://www.derkernel.com/jb-seven.php >>>> >>>> Not sure if it has the required drivers though. >>>> >>>> -jason >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >>>> >>>>> How about the 3Rd-party kernels? Haven't tried one on my Nexus yet, >>>>> but on my GS2 the Siyah kernel boosted my features and performance. >>>>> On Aug 15, 2012 9:52 AM, "Evan Leibovitch" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've taken delivery of a Nexus 7 tablet and am very happy with it >>>>>> (questions welcomed). >>>>>> >>>>>> One thing that I was hoping to do, when travelling with it, was to >>>>>> have some method of using wired Ethernet with it (typically, when staying >>>>>> in a hotel room that has a wired Ethernet drop but poor or no in-room wifi, >>>>>> this has happened a few times). >>>>>> >>>>>> Plan A is to use the USB "on the go" spec to attach an >>>>>> Ethernet-to-USB connector. >>>>>> Plan B is to get a cheap wifi router, >>>>>> which is more expensive and much bulkier. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've taken possession of item A, a $3 thing from eBay, >>>>>> cheap enough that it didn't work I would toss it. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I plug it in and run `lsusb` on the Nexus 7, the hardware is >>>>>> seen but there's no driver. I get >>>>>> Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0fe6:9700 >>>>>> >>>>>> When I plug the same device into Ubuntu, it works fine and from >>>>>> `lsusb` I get >>>>>> Bus 002 Device 011: ID 0fe6:9700 Kontron (Industrial Computer Source >>>>>> / ICS Advent) DM9601 Fast Ethernet Adapter >>>>>> >>>>>> I've been able to find Linux drivers for thisand in fact it's been made to work with the Motorola >>>>>> Xoom and Asus >>>>>> Transformer >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> Could some kind person here help me turn this driver into something >>>>>> usable on the stock N7 kernel? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Evan Leibovitch >>>>>> Toronto Canada >>>>>> >>>>>> Em: evan at telly dot org >>>>>> Sk: evanleibovitch >>>>>> Tw: el56 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> -- Evan Leibovitch Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 04:03:39 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 00:03:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <50339C28.5000704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: | From: Jamon Camisso | I have tremendous respect and admiration for Poul-Henning Kamp, and his | most recent article in the ACM queue has only bolstered it. Some hits, some misses. "and even the genuine Unix clone Coherent from the paint company Mark Williams." Not a paint company. Apparently it was a soft drink company (according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Williams_Company). I knew two or three good UNIX folks who went to Mark Williams in the early days. One who went on to contribute to Plan-9. Autoconf is a disaster in all imaginable ways. "One of Brooks's many excellent points is that quality happens only if somebody has the responsibility for it, and that "somebody" can be no more than one single person?with an exception for a dynamic duo. I am surprised that Brooks does not cite Unix as an example of this claim, since we can pinpoint with almost surgical precision the moment that Unix started to fragment: in the early 1990s when AT&T spun off Unix to commercialize it, thereby robbing it of its architects." Fragmentation and quality are different things. Research UNIX was not all perfect. I remember looking at the source for ls(1) in 7th Edition and finding it repulsive. Just try looking at real troff. "More than once in recent years, others have reached the same conclusion as Brooks. Some have tried to impose a kind of sanity, or even to lay down the law formally in the form of technical standards, hoping to bring order and structure to the bazaar. So far they have all failed spectacularly, because the generation of lost dot-com wunderkinder in the bazaar has never seen a cathedral and therefore cannot even imagine why you would want one in the first place, much less what it should look like." That is the natural lament of a BSD person. BSDers have lived in a slow-moving, mostly high-quality cathedral world. As a result, they've been left in the dust. And left to try to import the cargo floating to their little islands from the big neighbouring continent (Linux). If the cathedral had worked, they would not have had to try to import those whales. You cannot have it both ways. [Is that enough metaphor hopping for you?] This is a common pattern. The new wave has more energy and less class than the old wave. - I have a friend who thinks the apogee of UNIX was 6th Edition. He lives in Plan-9 now. - I have a fondness for 7th edition, but it didn't even have TCP/IP! - my cohort lamented the yahoos of BSD. Now they are the old old^n guard. - PC's were crazy/horribly architected but they beat workstations. - serious system programmers wrote in assembly language when I started. Later C was a step up, but many lost touch with / understanding of what the machine actually did. Going to Python makes this worse. Heck, I actually used machine language for a bit. - the old-school classical education was "better" than the current one (my father learned Latin and Greek in school; I took typing instead). But it was aimed at an elite in a much simpler world. - in my generation, a CS degree was a good basis for a career. (Many of the best programmers were CS drop-outs.) The generation before were repurposed physicists and the like. The dot-com boom let in the self-taught, with mixed results (not all bad). Not all IT pros are programmers in recent years. So: nostalgia isn't constructive. There are lessons to be relearned from the past, but we should not try to go there. Maybe his article is too short. autoconf etc. are horrible. That hardly makes the whole of open source a failure. Dependencies are complex and escape casual analysis (he doesn't distinguish compile-time and run-time dependencies which make his claims suspect). Both those issues are worth launching crusades over. I'd join. | He discusses some of the failings of the Bazaar software development | model championed by the likes of Eric Raymond. Given his background and | his lifelong involvement with free software like FreeBSD and Varnish, I | think much of what he has to say rings true. But not the only truth. Remember: most BSD folks are quasi-dissenters. Semi-orthodox UNIX folks (if they were orthodox, they might be using Plan-9). | For example, he shows an autoconf macro and then explains: "That is the | sorry reality of the bazaar Raymond praised in his book: a pile of old | festering hacks, endlessly copied and pasted by a clueless generation of | IT "professionals" who wouldn't recognize sound IT architecture if you | hit them over the head with it." "IT professional" is a fluid term. In my early days, those would never touch something as radical as UNIX. But massive qualitative changes happen when most dimensions of IT have changed by orders of magnitude (just not individual human intelligence). "Poul-Henning Kamp (phk-HZy0K5TPuP5AfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org) has programmed computers for 26 years" I've programmed computers of 45 years. Elegance in computer science is simplicity. One early machine I used was the PDP-8: 4K words of core memory, each word 12 bits long. You could really master that machine. But it cannot do much of what I use computers for now. BTW, the comments on that article on the actual article page are quite good. From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 14:44:13 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 10:44:13 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20120822144413.GV1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:03:39AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Some hits, some misses. > > "and even the genuine Unix clone Coherent from the paint company Mark > Williams." > > Not a paint company. Apparently it was a soft drink company > (according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Williams_Company). > > I knew two or three good UNIX folks who went to Mark Williams in > the early days. One who went on to contribute to Plan-9. > > Autoconf is a disaster in all imaginable ways. Absolutely. > "One of Brooks's many excellent points is that quality happens only if > somebody has the responsibility for it, and that "somebody" can be no > more than one single person?with an exception for a dynamic > duo. I am surprised that Brooks does not cite Unix as an example of > this claim, since we can pinpoint with almost surgical precision the > moment that Unix started to fragment: in the early 1990s when AT&T > spun off Unix to commercialize it, thereby robbing it of its > architects." > > Fragmentation and quality are different things. Research UNIX was not > all perfect. I remember looking at the source for ls(1) in 7th Edition > and finding it repulsive. Just try looking at real troff. > > "More than once in recent years, others have reached the same > conclusion as Brooks. Some have tried to impose a kind of sanity, or > even to lay down the law formally in the form of technical standards, > hoping to bring order and structure to the bazaar. So far they have > all failed spectacularly, because the generation of lost dot-com > wunderkinder in the bazaar has never seen a cathedral and therefore > cannot even imagine why you would want one in the first place, much > less what it should look like." > > That is the natural lament of a BSD person. BSDers have lived in a > slow-moving, mostly high-quality cathedral world. As a result, > they've been left in the dust. And left to try to import the cargo > floating to their little islands from the big neighbouring continent > (Linux). If the cathedral had worked, they would not have had to try > to import those whales. You cannot have it both ways. [Is that > enough metaphor hopping for you?] Well I consider the linux kernel to be a cathedral style work. Perhaps ot os a cathedral of cathedrals. Whatever it is seems to be working very well. Can't say that for things like gnome, kde, firefox, etc. > This is a common pattern. The new wave has more energy and less class > than the old wave. > > - I have a friend who thinks the apogee of UNIX was 6th Edition. > He lives in Plan-9 now. > > - I have a fondness for 7th edition, but it didn't even have TCP/IP! > > - my cohort lamented the yahoos of BSD. Now they are the old old^n > guard. It's too bad we are stuck with the networking system BSD invented. They clearly had completely misunderstood unix (and hence their own OS) when they came up with that socket system. > - PC's were crazy/horribly architected but they beat workstations. Price always wins out it seems. > - serious system programmers wrote in assembly language when I > started. Later C was a step up, but many lost touch with / > understanding of what the machine actually did. Going to Python > makes this worse. Heck, I actually used machine language for a bit. Who had a machine with enough ram to even fit a good optimizing compiler? Of course writing assembly for a machine with 4k is a lot more feasible than writing assembly for things using 1GB. > - the old-school classical education was "better" than the current one > (my father learned Latin and Greek in school; I took typing > instead). But it was aimed at an elite in a much simpler world. > > - in my generation, a CS degree was a good basis for a career. (Many > of the best programmers were CS drop-outs.) The generation before > were repurposed physicists and the like. The dot-com boom let in > the self-taught, with mixed results (not all bad). Not all IT pros > are programmers in recent years. Not all bad, just mostly bad. I do think to be a good IT pro you need at least some programming knowledge. > So: nostalgia isn't constructive. There are lessons to be relearned > from the past, but we should not try to go there. > > Maybe his article is too short. autoconf etc. are horrible. That > hardly makes the whole of open source a failure. Dependencies are > complex and escape casual analysis (he doesn't distinguish > compile-time and run-time dependencies which make his claims suspect). The complains about the dependancies certainly indicates a lack of understanding of how the software works. If firefox wants libgraphicswrapper and libgraphicswrapper wants libgif, libpng, libjpeg and libtiff, then you can either configure libgraphicswrapper to only support the first three because that's all you think you will ever use (and certainly all firefox cares about), or you can let it compile libtiff as well and not libgraphicswrapper is all set for when you want to use some other program that does want tiff support. Certainly not the fault of firefox in any way. > Both those issues are worth launching crusades over. I'd join. Can we add gnu make (make in general as well) and gcc to the list? Oh and the FSF indentation style too. > But not the only truth. Remember: most BSD folks are > quasi-dissenters. Semi-orthodox UNIX folks (if they were orthodox, > they might be using Plan-9). I have a long list of what is wrong with BSD systems. I also have a short list of what they do well. > "IT professional" is a fluid term. In my early days, those would > never touch something as radical as UNIX. But massive qualitative > changes happen when most dimensions of IT have changed by orders of > magnitude (just not individual human intelligence). > > "Poul-Henning Kamp (phk-HZy0K5TPuP5AfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org) has programmed computers for 26 > years" > > I've programmed computers of 45 years. > > Elegance in computer science is simplicity. One early machine I used > was the PDP-8: 4K words of core memory, each word 12 bits long. You > could really master that machine. But it cannot do much of what I use > computers for now. > > BTW, the comments on that article on the actual article page are quite > good. Well some are. Better than a typical slashdot article gets for sure. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 14:56:13 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 10:56:13 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20120822145613.GW1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 04:06:05PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > And it's a bit unfair, too. Getting code to a state where it *can* be > reused is a mighty difficult task. > > We got Unix as a followup from a number of systems that might be > regarded as "failed" (which mightn't be entirely fair, but let me "go > with this"...)... > > - MULTICS tried abstracting a lot of layers, and introduced the notion > of building an OS in a high level language (PL/1 is readily arguable > to be higher level than C!). > > - C followed BCPL and B. > > - Unix was originally written in assembly language, and redoing in C > was a later stage. Well eventually rewriting assembly again and again gets to be a bit annoying. > A lot of the things that are *good* about Unix are things that > required experimentation and, effectively, *failed* earlier attempts > that had to be discarded when implementing Unix. Well the system call list sure hasn't changed much since the begining so at least the main API was rather well thought out from the start. > I agree that we're getting some hugely messy systems these days. I > have been working on some RPM "spec" files, and building something > that "works" seems to be a trial-and-error task where everyone I talk > with uses recipes that they have discovered they could use, as opposed > to knowing are intentionally valid. The docs haven't guided me nearly > as much as I would have liked. Is the result well-engineered? Based > on the things I don't know, I'm pretty sure not. I think .spec files for RPM is a design mistake. I much prefer dealing with debian packages. RPM was a vast improvement over slackware's crappy packaging system, but it is far from the well thought out design that .deb is. > I disagree with Kamp's assertion that a lack of understanding of > portability is the root of the problems; that's an expression of the > deeper problem that people haven't done quite enough abstraction to > understand what problems they were trying to solve, and how to > implement the solutions WELL. If you insist on having things portable then you essentially have to insist that APIs on systems can never change, so new development has to stop. That doesn't sound desirable. Change for the sake of change (which surprisingly Windows seems very fond of, while still trying to maintain backwards compatibility) is certainly not a good idea. > That's a difficult set of tasks, and while the IT industry may well > have lots of idiots, the supposedly smarter, more ambitious folks > don't necessarily do better. Ongoing standards efforts for C, C++, > and C Standard Library show off a whopping lot of messiness, too, and > they don't let idiots near those nearly as easily. I watch the > goings-on surrounding Go with interest, as the implementers had > involvement with Unix and C, and seem to be trying to create something > cleaner. (Interesting recent essay on this: > I don't > think it explains the matter enough, but it's trying.) C++ and the STL are a huge mess. I think both should be avoided. C does what it was meant to do, and should be handled with the care it requires as a result. > I'm watching what's going on with Puppet with interest, but a bit of a > baleful eye, too. One of the "doctrines" seems to be that everything > should be a defined package (which is why I'm writing RPM .spec files > ;-)). I get the feeling that the doctrine has, behind it, the > imagined principle that 'stuff that's managed via packages and thus > fit into a distribution is better/more maintainable/usable/...' > > But the spawning (and, later, usually, deaths) of zillions of Linux > distributions seem to put some lie to this; if RPM .spec files become > a hot, in-language, I suspect a result of this is a lot of bad RPM > packages. Well if you start out choosing to use RPM, then you will certainly end up with a lot of messy packages. Those are way too hard to make well. > I see huge messes in two places, packaging (which Kamp observes on), > and libraries (which I think he only touches very indirectly). Part > of the proliferation of zillions of packages, and of the proliferation > of dependencies (which Kamp notices, in his observation of the need > for graphics/libtiff as a dependency for firefox) results from > libraries being not thought through sufficiently carefully. > > I presume that the graphics/libtiff dependency he observes results > from there being some other library that Firefox uses being one where > it proved attractive to include graphics/libtiff, because, while > Firefox mayn't really want to use .TIFF files, perhaps some other app > might, and might want that usage integrated into library > functionality. I think we've "blown" something here, and it isn't > remotely just Firefox or libtiff that are affected. I think it is an indication of the library having been done right. Make a library that handles graphics formats and use the standard libraries for each format. Who cares if firefox doesn't want one of the formats, some other program does want it and they can use the same library. That's a good thing. > If you want to build Postgres, at configuration time, you need to pick > from the following set of possible add-ons: > > --with-tcl build Tcl modules (PL/Tcl) > --with-perl build Perl modules (PL/Perl) > --with-python build Python modules (PL/Python) > --with-gssapi build with GSSAPI support > --with-krb5 build with Kerberos 5 support > --with-pam build with PAM support > --with-ldap build with LDAP support > --with-bonjour build with Bonjour support > --with-openssl build with OpenSSL support > --with-selinux build with SELinux support > --without-readline do not use GNU Readline nor BSD Libedit for editing > --with-libedit-preferred > prefer BSD Libedit over GNU Readline > --with-ossp-uuid build contrib/uuid-ossp, requires OSSP UUID library > --with-libxml build with XML support > --with-libxslt use XSLT support when building contrib/xml2 > --without-zlib do not use Zlib > > None of these optional additions are evil, but, given this set of > options, there are 2^14*3, or 49152 different ways to configure > Postgres, and whatever way you choose, you have to pick at compile > time. > > What is a distribution maker to do? There are likely a *few* options > that can be implied from the system (e.g. - no value to inclusion of > SELinux support if running on FreeBSD), but just about any option left > off is liable to make enemies, and hence, if you install something > that depends on PostgreSQL, you're liable to be drawing in a series of > libraries that you mightn't have expected. Why not just turn on everything and don't worry about it? Or in the case of php, debian modularizes it and has packages for lots of the extensions for php as seperate packages that you can install if you want them and not install if you don't. Plugins can work, but does require extra coding effort. > I think we've "blown it" in the sense that support for these sorts of > things are NOT sufficiently abstracted that you can build without > needing to pull in rather more dependencies than you wanted. And > that's true for libraries and packages, both. Why are you building things yourself in the first place? > We may be suffering a language problem, as our typical implementation > languages, C and C++, have to statically resolve interfaces for the > above sorts of things at compile time. The notable example of attempt > to define dynamic interfaces came in CORBA, with Dynamic / "Any" > interfaces. See > . > The implementation of this in C is just heinous, and that may be the > root of some of the problem. > > Android has an interesting notion for interfacing to extra things in > the form of what they call "Intents" > It also uses java. > I'm not sure I have more of a conclusion. > > I don't think using Android is an answer to the "problems of grubby bazaars." > > Go would be more nearly the shape of an answer, but reimplementing > everything in a new language is a crummy thing to need to do. New languages don't solve bad design by bad developers. > But *another* disease disease we have is the one of building things > into gigantic monolithic applications. That's certainly a reasonable > way to characterize the "desktop" pieces like web browsers, most email > clients, the "integrated word processor/spreadsheet/presentation > package", and, for that matter, a lot of the Desktop Environment apps > for GNOME and KDE. To build things that are more keeping with Unix > Philosophy might essentially require redesigning them, at which point, > reimplementing in a new language might not be the biggest part of the > task. Well certainly kde consists of thousands of programs. It is not monolithic at all. It even consists of dozens if not hundreds of seperate source packages. firefox is a huge monolithic beast (and chrome even worse). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 21:05:57 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 17:05:57 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: An interesting read. However, it reminded me somewhat of those conversations I used to have in the faculty lounge, where another prof would lament about the abilities of the current crop of students, and how the world was going to hell in a handbasket. At that point, I'd sing the lines from the play 'By By Birdie': Why can't they be like we were, Perfect in every way. What's the matter with kids today? I also well remember the dot Com (although alas did not have the wit to exploit it financially), and a young kid telling me how he was going to put together an 'image over internet' company that would blow us old fogies out of the water. This without any working understanding of the concept of bandwidth. He's now repairing machinery in Ottawa. It takes time to learn the craft of software development. It also helps, early in the process, to have one of those out-of-control experiences, like training on a go-cart and then finding oneself at the wheel of a dual semi-trailer on a mountain road. You can't believe, doing some toy software exercises, that software is difficult at all, or requires much of a structure, or that You Need a Plan. I used to put my students through that with an exercise in machine language. (Navigating a robot through a maze.) ML is excellent for this experience, because it has absolutely no inherent structure, and you have to create it. You get into spaghetti monster of a program in only a few pages of code. Once they had that experience, and not before, they were ready to listen to ideas of modularization, magic numbers, controlled access to the hardware, and so on. Overall, I am just astonished by the quality and quantity of software that has been generated in the Bazaar. By 'quality', I refer to the reliability of the code, and the excellence of its user interfaces - not the beauty of the code inside. That's fine - most of us are drivers, not mechanical engineers. When was the last time you or your lay friends popped the hood on a car and marvelled at the layout of the engine compartment? Based on what I'm seeing, there is some really fine work being done. So yeah, let's slang the bad stuff. (Why is it that the ls command doesn't have an option of showing only directories? Sheesh. Oh, well, I'll just use the GUI version, which does it nicely.) Eventually the lousy stuff will get depreciated or dumped. Put me with the optimists. Peter > | From: Jamon Camisso > > | I have tremendous respect and admiration for Poul-Henning Kamp, and his > | most recent article in the ACM queue has only bolstered it. > > Some hits, some misses. > > "and even the genuine Unix clone Coherent from the paint company Mark > Williams." > > Not a paint company. Apparently it was a soft drink company > (according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Williams_Company). > > I knew two or three good UNIX folks who went to Mark Williams in > the early days. One who went on to contribute to Plan-9. > > Autoconf is a disaster in all imaginable ways. > > "One of Brooks's many excellent points is that quality happens only if > somebody has the responsibility for it, and that "somebody" can be no > more than one single person???with an exception for a dynamic > duo. I am surprised that Brooks does not cite Unix as an example of > this claim, since we can pinpoint with almost surgical precision the > moment that Unix started to fragment: in the early 1990s when AT&T > spun off Unix to commercialize it, thereby robbing it of its > architects." > > Fragmentation and quality are different things. Research UNIX was not > all perfect. I remember looking at the source for ls(1) in 7th Edition > and finding it repulsive. Just try looking at real troff. > > "More than once in recent years, others have reached the same > conclusion as Brooks. Some have tried to impose a kind of sanity, or > even to lay down the law formally in the form of technical standards, > hoping to bring order and structure to the bazaar. So far they have > all failed spectacularly, because the generation of lost dot-com > wunderkinder in the bazaar has never seen a cathedral and therefore > cannot even imagine why you would want one in the first place, much > less what it should look like." > > That is the natural lament of a BSD person. BSDers have lived in a > slow-moving, mostly high-quality cathedral world. As a result, > they've been left in the dust. And left to try to import the cargo > floating to their little islands from the big neighbouring continent > (Linux). If the cathedral had worked, they would not have had to try > to import those whales. You cannot have it both ways. [Is that > enough metaphor hopping for you?] > > This is a common pattern. The new wave has more energy and less class > than the old wave. > > - I have a friend who thinks the apogee of UNIX was 6th Edition. > He lives in Plan-9 now. > > - I have a fondness for 7th edition, but it didn't even have TCP/IP! > > - my cohort lamented the yahoos of BSD. Now they are the old old^n > guard. > > - PC's were crazy/horribly architected but they beat workstations. > > - serious system programmers wrote in assembly language when I > started. Later C was a step up, but many lost touch with / > understanding of what the machine actually did. Going to Python > makes this worse. Heck, I actually used machine language for a bit. > > - the old-school classical education was "better" than the current one > (my father learned Latin and Greek in school; I took typing > instead). But it was aimed at an elite in a much simpler world. > > - in my generation, a CS degree was a good basis for a career. (Many > of the best programmers were CS drop-outs.) The generation before > were repurposed physicists and the like. The dot-com boom let in > the self-taught, with mixed results (not all bad). Not all IT pros > are programmers in recent years. > > So: nostalgia isn't constructive. There are lessons to be relearned > from the past, but we should not try to go there. > > Maybe his article is too short. autoconf etc. are horrible. That > hardly makes the whole of open source a failure. Dependencies are > complex and escape casual analysis (he doesn't distinguish > compile-time and run-time dependencies which make his claims suspect). > > Both those issues are worth launching crusades over. I'd join. > > | He discusses some of the failings of the Bazaar software development > | model championed by the likes of Eric Raymond. Given his background and > | his lifelong involvement with free software like FreeBSD and Varnish, I > | think much of what he has to say rings true. > > But not the only truth. Remember: most BSD folks are > quasi-dissenters. Semi-orthodox UNIX folks (if they were orthodox, > they might be using Plan-9). > > | For example, he shows an autoconf macro and then explains: "That is the > | sorry reality of the bazaar Raymond praised in his book: a pile of old > | festering hacks, endlessly copied and pasted by a clueless generation of > | IT "professionals" who wouldn't recognize sound IT architecture if you > | hit them over the head with it." > > "IT professional" is a fluid term. In my early days, those would > never touch something as radical as UNIX. But massive qualitative > changes happen when most dimensions of IT have changed by orders of > magnitude (just not individual human intelligence). > > "Poul-Henning Kamp (phk-HZy0K5TPuP5AfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org) has programmed computers for 26 > years" > > I've programmed computers of 45 years. > > Elegance in computer science is simplicity. One early machine I used > was the PDP-8: 4K words of core memory, each word 12 bits long. You > could really master that machine. But it cannot do much of what I use > computers for now. > > BTW, the comments on that article on the actual article page are quite > good. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 21:31:28 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 17:31:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Aug 2012, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Why is it that the ls command doesn't > have an option of showing only directories? ls -d */ -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 22:32:47 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 18:32:47 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> >> Why is it that the ls command doesn't >> have an option of showing only directories? > > ls -d */ > > Sure, but why do I have to add the cryptic */ to this? Why not just ls -d? P. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 22:37:03 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 18:37:03 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: >>> Why is it that the ls command doesn't >>> have an option of showing only directories? >> >> ls -d */ >> >> > Sure, but why do I have to add the cryptic */ to this? Why not just ls -d? > > P. What happens when you do ls -d? You get '.' According to the manual entry: -d, --directory list directory entries instead of contents, and do not dereference symbolic links In other words, if you use ls -d, it tells you 'you are in the current directory', or more colloquially: you are where you are. That's not a huge amount of information. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 22:41:33 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 18:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Aug 2012, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >>> Why is it that the ls command doesn't >>> have an option of showing only directories? >> >> ls -d */ >> >> > Sure, but why do I have to add the cryptic */ to this? Because that's what you want. > Why not just ls -d? Because that does something different. I use this function to list directories: ld() #@ List directories { ld_dir=$1 set -- ${1:+"$1/"}*/ [ -d "${1:-.}" ] || return 5 ls -ld ${ld_dir:+$ld_dir/}*/ 2>/dev/null } -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 22:43:55 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 18:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Aug 2012, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >>>> Why is it that the ls command doesn't >>>> have an option of showing only directories? >>> >>> ls -d */ >>> >>> >> Sure, but why do I have to add the cryptic */ to this? Why not just ls -d? >> >> P. > > What happens when you do ls -d? You get '.' > > According to the manual entry: > > -d, --directory > list directory entries instead of contents, and do not > dereference symbolic links > > In other words, if you use ls -d, it tells you 'you are in the current > directory', or more colloquially: you are where you are. That's not a huge > amount of information. You didn't ask for any more information. ls -ld -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 22 23:39:31 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 19:39:31 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <50356DB3.8000709@ve3syb.ca> On 12-08-22 06:37 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > What happens when you do ls -d? You get '.' [snip] > In other words, if you use ls -d, it tells you 'you are in the current > directory', or more colloquially: you are where you are. That's not a huge > amount of information. Definitely not what one would call useful information. No matter where you are, you are always in the current directory. ;-) All it takes is for someone to be annoyed enough at a missing feature for them to go in and add the feature. So, where is the patch, Peter. ;-) Sometimes you can be in for a bit of a battle to get changes in to long standing programs. 'ls -d */' while not that intuitive works well. I learned something new today. :-) -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 00:01:15 2012 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 20:01:15 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <50356DB3.8000709-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50356DB3.8000709@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: > On 12-08-22 06:37 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> What happens when you do ls -d? You get '.' > [snip] >> In other words, if you use ls -d, it tells you 'you are in the current >> directory', or more colloquially: you are where you are. That's not a >> huge >> amount of information. > > Definitely not what one would call useful information. No matter where you > are, you are always in the current directory. ;-) > > All it takes is for someone to be annoyed enough at a missing feature for > them to go in and add the feature. So, where is the patch, Peter. ;-) > > Sometimes you can be in for a bit of a battle to get changes in to long > standing programs. 'ls -d */' while not that intuitive works well. I > learned > something new today. :-) > I wonder how many shell scripts would break if you changed the operation of ls -d? You'd have to make a new option. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 00:15:28 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 20:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50356DB3.8000709@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Aug 2012, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> On 12-08-22 06:37 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >>> What happens when you do ls -d? You get '.' >> [snip] >>> In other words, if you use ls -d, it tells you 'you are in the current >>> directory', or more colloquially: you are where you are. That's not a >>> huge >>> amount of information. >> >> Definitely not what one would call useful information. No matter where you >> are, you are always in the current directory. ;-) >> >> All it takes is for someone to be annoyed enough at a missing feature for >> them to go in and add the feature. So, where is the patch, Peter. ;-) >> >> Sometimes you can be in for a bit of a battle to get changes in to long >> standing programs. 'ls -d */' while not that intuitive works well. I >> learned >> something new today. :-) >> > > I wonder how many shell scripts would break if you changed the operation > of ls -d? You'd have to make a new option. Or write a wrapper function for ls that implements, say, -D. Or use the function I posted earlier. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 03:02:40 2012 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:02:40 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50356DB3.8000709@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <50359D50.6080702@ve3syb.ca> On 12-08-22 08:15 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > Or write a wrapper function for ls that implements, say, -D. -D is already in use. -D, --dired generate output designed for Emacs' dired mode -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include | --Chris Hardwick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 03:10:49 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <50359D50.6080702-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50356DB3.8000709@ve3syb.ca> <50359D50.6080702@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Aug 2012, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 12-08-22 08:15 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> Or write a wrapper function for ls that implements, say, -D. > > -D is already in use. > > -D, --dired > generate output designed for Emacs' dired mode Non-standard; no reason not to hijack it for other purposes. Or choose something else. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 16:49:06 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:49:06 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20120823164906.GX1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 05:05:57PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > An interesting read. However, it reminded me somewhat of those > conversations I used to have in the faculty lounge, where another prof > would lament about the abilities of the current crop of students, and how > the world was going to hell in a handbasket. > > At that point, I'd sing the lines from the play 'By By Birdie': > > Why can't they be like we were, > Perfect in every way. > What's the matter with kids today? > > I also well remember the dot Com (although alas did not have the wit to > exploit it financially), and a young kid telling me how he was going to > put together an 'image over internet' company that would blow us old > fogies out of the water. This without any working understanding of the > concept of bandwidth. He's now repairing machinery in Ottawa. > > It takes time to learn the craft of software development. It also helps, > early in the process, to have one of those out-of-control experiences, > like training on a go-cart and then finding oneself at the wheel of a dual > semi-trailer on a mountain road. You can't believe, doing some toy > software exercises, that software is difficult at all, or requires much of > a structure, or that You Need a Plan. I used to put my students through > that with an exercise in machine language. (Navigating a robot through a > maze.) ML is excellent for this experience, because it has absolutely no > inherent structure, and you have to create it. You get into spaghetti > monster of a program in only a few pages of code. Once they had that > experience, and not before, they were ready to listen to ideas of > modularization, magic numbers, controlled access to the hardware, and so > on. We usally call that assembly code since ML is a very nice language from the 60s with excellent type checking and polymorphism and other nice things. If you were actually writing the hex codes, well that's just mean (not that I haven't done that back in highschool). > Overall, I am just astonished by the quality and quantity of software that > has been generated in the Bazaar. By 'quality', I refer to the reliability > of the code, and the excellence of its user interfaces - not the beauty of > the code inside. That's fine - most of us are drivers, not mechanical > engineers. When was the last time you or your lay friends popped the hood > on a car and marvelled at the layout of the engine compartment? > > Based on what I'm seeing, there is some really fine work being done. So > yeah, let's slang the bad stuff. (Why is it that the ls command doesn't > have an option of showing only directories? Sheesh. Oh, well, I'll just > use the GUI version, which does it nicely.) Eventually the lousy stuff > will get depreciated or dumped. Put me with the optimists. Why should ls care about filetypes? It just lists what it is asked to list and that list actually comes from the shell (remember unlike DOS, the shell does the expansion which means all programs support wildcards, not the way in DOS only some programs supported wildcards and only in the way they chose to implement). On many shells you can do ls -d */ to just get directories. Of course find works well for it too. DOS' dir command had to have such options since command.com did nothing other than run programs with arguments. Figuring out what files were there and filtering them was up to each program. After all DOS couldn't do 'echo *' as a cheap replacement for dir. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 16:51:21 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:51:21 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20120823165121.GY1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 06:32:47PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Sure, but why do I have to add the cryptic */ to this? Why not just ls -d? Because the shell matches only directories with */ where as * matches everything (other than . files). ls has nothing to do with it. It just does what it is told. echo */ Nice and short. ls's job is actually to count the files, run stat on them to get dates, permissions, etc, and format it nicely. The list itself is the shell's job, unless you are doing a recursive ls or not specifying any files and reyling on ls doing something useful based on the current working directory. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 18:10:52 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 14:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <20120823165121.GY1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20120823165121.GY1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Aug 2012, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 06:32:47PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Sure, but why do I have to add the cryptic */ to this? Why not just ls -d? > > Because the shell matches only directories with */ where as * matches > everything (other than . files). > > ls has nothing to do with it. It just does what it is told. > > echo */ > > Nice and short. > > ls's job is actually to count the files, run stat on them to get dates, > permissions, etc, and format it nicely. The list itself is the shell's > job, unless you are doing a recursive ls or not specifying any files > and reyling on ls doing something useful based on the current working > directory. ls does generate the list if given a directory as an argument, without -d. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 19:44:46 2012 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:44:46 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 6:32 PM, wrote: >>> Why is it that the ls command doesn't >>> have an option of showing only directories? >> >> ls -d */ >> >> > Sure, but why do I have to add the cryptic */ to this? Why not just ls -d? Not to mention that this relies on shell globbing and isn't an ls feature at all. :) Thanks -Ben -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Walton Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 19:48:56 2012 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:48:56 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50356DB3.8000709@ve3syb.ca> <50359D50.6080702@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 22 Aug 2012, Kevin Cozens wrote: > >> On 12-08-22 08:15 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >>> >>> Or write a wrapper function for ls that implements, say, -D. >> >> >> -D is already in use. >> >> -D, --dired >> generate output designed for Emacs' dired mode > > > Non-standard; no reason not to hijack it for other purposes. > > Or choose something else. Having interacted with the coreutils (and the underpinning gnulib) folks a bit, I'd almost bet that a new option as opposed to changing the meaning of an existing one is the only way forward there. Getting any new option introduced to the coreutils programs requires a well written proposal and most of the time the code to back it. :) I should search the archives though as I can't imagine that nobody proposed such an option in the past. It is something people do frequently. Thanks -Ben -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Walton Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 20:56:37 2012 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 16:56:37 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50356DB3.8000709@ve3syb.ca> <50359D50.6080702@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Ben Walton wrote: > Having interacted with the coreutils (and the underpinning gnulib) > folks a bit, I'd almost bet that a new option as opposed to changing > the meaning of an existing one is the only way forward there. Getting > any new option introduced to the coreutils programs requires a well > written proposal and most of the time the code to back it. :) My sense on this is that it would be nice if only we could step back in time and eliminate some of the usages of /bin/ls, and be able to change its behaviour to be a bit more sensible. Rob Pike recently (January) twittered something a bit analogous about rm: Rob Pike ?@rob_pike rm: dir: is a directory. Seriously, guys? It's 2012 and rm still can't remove a directory? You should be ashamed. This gripe turned into a big "oh, but POSIX doesn't specify it that way!" fight. Or, to quote him directly: "Most of the responses were of three forms: teaching how to use rm, which I already know how to do, or telling me to setup an alias for rm -r (which is dangerous and not at all what I want), or telling me it's necessary for compatibility. My point was not made, but then I didn't really expect it to be." What he *really* meant, that it's safe and easy to change rm to remove an empty directory without requiring flags and without giving an error that reminds me to run a different command, rmdir. Unfortunately, "the horse has long, long, long, long bolted." People are *so* attached to thinking that directory deletion and file deletion require different commands, or that /bin/ls behaves in a given way that we probably have to treat these behaviours as givens that Can Not Be Changed despite being pretty stupid. More entertaining was the discovery that .hiding .files .by .putting .a .dot .on .the .front represents an outright bug that falls from a bad string comparison when looking for directories that was introduced in System 2, and which persists to this day. Either Ken or Dennis made this mistake, of coding (in assembler) the equivalent of: if (name[0] == '.') continue; rather than if (strcmp(name, ".") == 0 || strcmp(name, "..") == 0) continue; People started using hidden files for things, going as far as the fictional case, in DecWars, where Con Solo used this bug to hide the heroes from the Administrative Flunkies, and so we can't get rid of that blemish. These are very much "Bazaar" bits, and we've got plenty of them. And it takes some "cathedralizing" to clean them up that amounts to heading over to the Plan 9 'ghetto', or something of the sort. As much as there are attractive things about Plan 9, there's no port of Firefox or Chrome, so most people find that an unacceptable choice. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 23 21:56:53 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 17:56:53 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50356DB3.8000709@ve3syb.ca> <50359D50.6080702@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20120823215653.GZ1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 04:56:37PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > My sense on this is that it would be nice if only we could step back > in time and eliminate some of the usages of /bin/ls, and be able to > change its behaviour to be a bit more sensible. > > Rob Pike recently (January) twittered something a bit analogous about rm: > > Rob Pike ?@rob_pike > rm: dir: is a directory. Seriously, guys? It's 2012 and rm still can't > remove a directory? You should be ashamed. > > This gripe turned into a big "oh, but POSIX doesn't specify it that > way!" fight. Or, to quote him directly: > > "Most of the responses were of three forms: teaching how to use rm, > which I already know how to do, or telling me to setup an alias for rm > -r (which is dangerous and not at all what I want), or telling me it's > necessary for compatibility. My point was not made, but then I didn't > really expect it to be." So rm -r is dangerous, but an exception for empty directories is not? Why? What if a directory only containts other empty directories? Is that safe to rm? How far does the exception have to go? How about directories with only 0 byte files in it? Can it remove those? If not, why not? > What he *really* meant, that it's safe and easy to change rm to remove > an empty directory without requiring flags and without giving an error > that reminds me to run a different command, rmdir. A directory is NOT a file and rm by default does an unlink which removes one link to an inode from a directory. rm is a user interface to unlink(). rmdir is a unser interface to rmdir(). unlink simply removes a hard link to an inode and doesn't have to check anything else. rmdir has to do a bunch of checking before it is able to remove a directory. I think it's a good thing that rm doesn't try to guess what you meant. I like that unix systems do what I say, not what it thinks I meant. If I don't say what I mean, that's my problem. And changing rm is NOT safe. Some people are used to the fact rm only removes files so doing rm * will remove files, but not directories. If you change it you break stuff that currently has a known expected behaviour. > Unfortunately, "the horse has long, long, long, long bolted." People > are *so* attached to thinking that directory deletion and file > deletion require different commands, or that /bin/ls behaves in a > given way that we probably have to treat these behaviours as givens > that Can Not Be Changed despite being pretty stupid. They are different, so using different commands makes sense. > More entertaining was the discovery that .hiding .files .by .putting > .a .dot .on .the .front represents an outright bug that falls from a > bad string comparison when looking for directories that was introduced > in System 2, and which persists to this day. > > Either Ken or Dennis made this mistake, of coding (in assembler) the > equivalent of: > if (name[0] == '.') continue; > rather than > if (strcmp(name, ".") == 0 || strcmp(name, "..") == 0) continue; > > People started using hidden files for things, going as far as the > fictional case, in DecWars, where Con Solo used this bug to hide the > heroes from the Administrative Flunkies, and so we can't get rid of > that blemish. That's neat. I had not heard that before, but it sounds quite plausible. > These are very much "Bazaar" bits, and we've got plenty of them. And > it takes some "cathedralizing" to clean them up that amounts to > heading over to the Plan 9 'ghetto', or something of the sort. As > much as there are attractive things about Plan 9, there's no port of > Firefox or Chrome, so most people find that an unacceptable choice. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 01:42:03 2012 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 21:42:03 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <20120823215653.GZ1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <768a303e238f87a8875d65606d1ab511.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <50356DB3.8000709@ve3syb.ca> <50359D50.6080702@ve3syb.ca> <20120823215653.GZ1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > I think it's a good thing that rm doesn't try to guess what you meant. > I like that unix systems do what I say, not what it thinks I meant. > If I don't say what I mean, that's my problem. > > And changing rm is NOT safe. Some people are used to the fact rm only > removes files so doing rm * will remove files, but not directories. > If you change it you break stuff that currently has a known expected > behaviour. I agree here. Consider: rm somedir rm somedir/ rm somelink_to_dir rm somelink_to_dir/ (In each case, consider that the argument to rm has the same name.) In all cases, the target directory is empty. Case 1 and 2 are the treated same and currently result in the error condition. Case 3 currently sees rm remove the symlink. Case 4 currently complains about removing a directory because it dereferences the symlink. (*Lots of handwaving about the ficticious situation here*) Now, consider a script where case 2 is changed to case 4 by some agent you're not aware of...the semantics of the operation have now changed. Should it still remove the directory if empty? If nothing else, this opens up an opportunity for an attacker to take advantage of a script that relies on the current behaviour. Also, if case 1 is changed to case 3 by an agent, the semantics change again. The directory would remain but the symlink would be removed. Is that what you wanted? This is the type of behaviour change that has the potential to wreak havoc everywhere. Had they decided to make (empty) directory removal standard in 1974, maybe it would have been ok...now, I don't think it would be a good change. I'm not convinced it would have been a good choice in 1974 either. Thanks -Ben -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Walton Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 01:45:01 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 21:45:01 -0400 Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <20120822145613.GW1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <20120822145613.GW1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120824014500.GA19077@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 10:56:13AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > That's a difficult set of tasks, and while the IT industry may well > > have lots of idiots, the supposedly smarter, more ambitious folks > > don't necessarily do better. Ongoing standards efforts for C, C++, > > and C Standard Library show off a whopping lot of messiness, too, > > and they don't let idiots near those nearly as easily. I watch the > > goings-on surrounding Go with interest, as the implementers had > > involvement with Unix and C, and seem to be trying to create > > something cleaner. (Interesting recent essay on this: > > I don't > > think it explains the matter enough, but it's trying.) > > C++ and the STL are a huge mess. I think both should be avoided. C > does what it was meant to do, and should be handled with the care it > requires as a result. What I want is "New and Improved C". I gave up on Google's Go. It will take 10 years just to read and digest its documentations. And, I'm not sure what kind of problem they're trying to solve, other than that its designers have leftover thesis materials they want to field experiment on us. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 14:25:08 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:25:08 -0400 Subject: FSOSS accepting presentation proposals Message-ID: This is not an endorsed message, just a fan remembering to look up his favourite conference from last year: http://fsoss.senecac.on.ca/2012/ The Free Software and Open Source Symposium 2012, run by Seneca at York, is Thursday October 25 and Friday the 26th. They are currently accepting presentation proposals. Seneca at York is responsible for Processing.js and the Fedora Raspberry Pi distro (among other things). Their involvement in open source meant they had a number of very interesting speakers available even before they put out a call for presentations last year. Early registration was $40 last year. Registration for 2012 isn't open yet, but is expected in early September. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 15:57:00 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 11:57:00 -0400 Subject: Forking coreutils, WAS Re: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article Message-ID: On 23 August 2012 16:56, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Ben Walton wrote: >> Having interacted with the coreutils (and the underpinning gnulib) >> folks a bit, I'd almost bet that a new option as opposed to changing >> the meaning of an existing one is the only way forward there. Getting >> any new option introduced to the coreutils programs requires a well >> written proposal and most of the time the code to back it. :) > > My sense on this is that it would be nice if only we could step back > in time and eliminate some of the usages of /bin/ls, and be able to > change its behaviour to be a bit more sensible. > > Rob Pike recently (January) twittered something a bit analogous about rm: > > Rob Pike ?@rob_pike > rm: dir: is a directory. Seriously, guys? It's 2012 and rm still can't > remove a directory? You should be ashamed. > > This gripe turned into a big "oh, but POSIX doesn't specify it that > way!" fight. Or, to quote him directly: > > "Most of the responses were of three forms: teaching how to use rm, > which I already know how to do, or telling me to setup an alias for rm > -r (which is dangerous and not at all what I want), or telling me it's > necessary for compatibility. My point was not made, but then I didn't > really expect it to be." > > What he *really* meant, that it's safe and easy to change rm to remove > an empty directory without requiring flags and without giving an error > that reminds me to run a different command, rmdir. > > Unfortunately, "the horse has long, long, long, long bolted." People > are *so* attached to thinking that directory deletion and file > deletion require different commands, or that /bin/ls behaves in a > given way that we probably have to treat these behaviours as givens > that Can Not Be Changed despite being pretty stupid. > > More entertaining was the discovery that .hiding .files .by .putting > .a .dot .on .the .front represents an outright bug that falls from a > bad string comparison when looking for directories that was introduced > in System 2, and which persists to this day. > > Either Ken or Dennis made this mistake, of coding (in assembler) the > equivalent of: > if (name[0] == '.') continue; > rather than > if (strcmp(name, ".") == 0 || strcmp(name, "..") == 0) continue; If we can't change it under its current name, perhaps the "correct" thing to do is to fork rm as "nrm" (the New ReMove). With different and saner switches and no bugs-that-are-now-features. This works for higher profile projects like Firefox and Libre Office, but there's a persistent problem: utilities like "rm" just aren't glamorous enough and are far too well established. Since open source programmers are working for personal interest and recognition but not for cash, they tend to go for the glamour. And things where they actually think there will be some interest from others. The probability of anyone creating a successful fork of rm and/or coreutils is slim, even if anyone had the wherewithal to do it. The only really successful fork of something that low level that I can think of was LPRng - which sprung out of pretty broad agreement that LPR was too much of a dinosaur to live. And I'm not hearing that about rm or coreutils, not yet. Just some mild grumbling. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 16:18:19 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:18:19 -0400 Subject: Forking coreutils, WAS Re: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120824161819.GA1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 11:57:00AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > On 23 August 2012 16:56, Christopher Browne wrote: > > More entertaining was the discovery that .hiding .files .by .putting > > .a .dot .on .the .front represents an outright bug that falls from a > > bad string comparison when looking for directories that was introduced > > in System 2, and which persists to this day. > > > > Either Ken or Dennis made this mistake, of coding (in assembler) the > > equivalent of: > > if (name[0] == '.') continue; > > rather than > > if (strcmp(name, ".") == 0 || strcmp(name, "..") == 0) continue; > > If we can't change it under its current name, perhaps the "correct" > thing to do is to fork rm as "nrm" (the New ReMove). With different > and saner switches and no bugs-that-are-now-features. That was a shell bug, not an rm bug. nrm will still have to deal with . files being special. > This works for higher profile projects like Firefox and Libre Office, > but there's a persistent problem: utilities like "rm" just aren't > glamorous enough and are far too well established. Since open source > programmers are working for personal interest and recognition but not > for cash, they tend to go for the glamour. And things where they > actually think there will be some interest from others. The > probability of anyone creating a successful fork of rm and/or > coreutils is slim, even if anyone had the wherewithal to do it. The > only really successful fork of something that low level that I can > think of was LPRng - which sprung out of pretty broad agreement that > LPR was too much of a dinosaur to live. And I'm not hearing that > about rm or coreutils, not yet. Just some mild grumbling. Who would try to use nrm when it isn't present on all systems the way rm is? The "problems" you suggest fixing aren't even accepted by everyone as being "problems" in need of "fixing". As for successful forks. Well gcc, glibc (at least it is looking fairly successful so far), links, cdrecord, and probably some others. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 24 20:31:18 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 16:31:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Generation Lost in the Bazaar - Poul-Henning Kamp article In-Reply-To: <20120824014500.GA19077-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <50339C28.5000704@utoronto.ca> <20120822145613.GW1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120824014500.GA19077@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: | From: William Park | What I want is "New and Improved C". I don't see how that can be done. (I have been a peripheral member of the C standardization process for about 25 years.) | I gave up on Google's Go. It will | take 10 years just to read and digest its documentations. I've only glanced at a bit of the documentation. I didn't find it hard at all. What are you really objecting to? The documentation size? Or is this really a comment on the language size (my impression is that it is actually fairly small)? Or the runtime size? | And, I'm not | sure what kind of problem they're trying to solve, other than that its | designers have leftover thesis materials they want to field experiment | on us. Rob Pike's left over thesis (if any) was in the High Energy Physics Department at Cal-tech. Not sure how far he got. Nothing to do with programming languages. I have to admit that he was a little involved in language design there -- something that was a precursor to Mathematica. I don't think Ken Thompson was working on a PhD; he finished his Master's degree in 1966. I doubt the had left over thesis stuff for Go. I don't know Robert Griesemer. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 16:35:00 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [mythtv-gta]: Raspberry PI vs. VIA APC vs. ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Andrew Cagney | | Lack of MPEG-2 is fixed; you'll need just shy of two 'n' a half quid | to buy a licence. | http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1839 Thanks for the update. Also in that blog entry: CEC support. CEC is a standard that lets devices share control information over HDMI. Most video cards don't yet support it but the Raspberry Pi does. My first clue about CEC was when turning off my TV also truned off the BluRay player. Second: turning on the BluRay turns on the TV. The blog entry has a video showing how the remote for another device in the video configuration (AVR?) is able to control XBMC on the RaspberryPI, strictly through CEC over HDMI. Nice. I don't remember if Raspberry PI will run MythTV well. Perhaps it has too little RAM. Last I checked, XBMC no longer worked well as a frontend for MythTV. So I don't know the best ways to use Raspberry PI as a myth client. Rephrasing that last paragraph as a question: does Raspberry Pi work reasonably as a Myth client? If so, how? If not, are people working on it? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 25 22:06:36 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 18:06:36 -0400 Subject: NASA - Neil Armstrong: 1930-2012 Message-ID: <50394C6C.70807@rogers.com> http://www.nasa.gov/topics/people/features/armstrong_obit.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 27 22:38:24 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 15:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? Message-ID: <1346107104.91072.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi, I want to upgrade my wireless adapter to Wireless-N, because my router is already 300Mbps.? The only problem is physical orientation of my tower, ie. the back is facing away from the router.? Currently, I'm using external 8dBi antenna. Question is... 1. Most Wireless-N adapter cards have 2 or 3 antennas. Will they work with only 1 antenna, with the others removed? 2. Or, should I just go with USB adapter? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 28 13:18:25 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 09:18:25 -0400 Subject: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? In-Reply-To: <1346107104.91072.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3OZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1346107104.91072.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20120828131825.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 03:38:24PM -0700, William Park wrote: > I want to upgrade my wireless adapter to Wireless-N, because > my router is already 300Mbps.? The only problem is physical > orientation of my tower, ie. the back is facing away from the > router.? Currently, I'm using external 8dBi antenna. > > Question is... > > 1. Most Wireless-N adapter cards have 2 or 3 antennas. Will > they work with only 1 antenna, with the others removed? Some will. Some won't. At best you will get 150Mbps (and that's the theoretical max). Two antennas max out at 300, and three antennas max out at 450Mbps. > 2. Or, should I just go with USB adapter? That would probably not be very efficient. I have seen PCI and PCIe cards with external antenna pods on a wire, probably for the reason you have of being able to place the antenna somewhere good. I have been quite happy with a linksys WMP600N for a couple of years. Ralink 2860 chipset, linux drivers work great, two antenna design, both 2.4 and 5ghz and does abgn as a result (as long as you install the wifi regulatory database and tell it which country you are in). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 28 13:20:23 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 09:20:23 -0400 Subject: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? In-Reply-To: <20120828131825.GB1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1346107104.91072.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120828131825.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20120828132023.GC1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 09:18:25AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Some will. Some won't. At best you will get 150Mbps (and that's the > theoretical max). > > Two antennas max out at 300, and three antennas max out at 450Mbps. Also part of 802.11n is actually MIMO (multiple in, multiple out) which gives it longer range and better coverrage by using two or more antennas to use reflections for signal boosting. So by using one antenna (even if it is a good one) you are likely to get a much worse result. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 28 14:36:55 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 10:36:55 -0400 Subject: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? In-Reply-To: <20120828131825.GB1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1346107104.91072.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120828131825.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <503CD787.6080509@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Some will. Some won't. At best you will get 150Mbps (and that's the > theoretical max). > > Two antennas max out at 300, and three antennas max out at 450Mbps. I recently read a book about 802.11n and how it uses MIMO to gain bandwidth. It actually relies on multi-path propogation to do this. I wonder what would happen if a 3 antenna access point were to be connected to high gain directional antennas. The book didn't get into that situation, but the directional antennas would reduce the chance of multi-path. There are single antenna 802.11n access points, but they would lose much of the MIMO advantage. Also, if you use an interior grade access point or router, you'll have to protect it from the weather, as you don't want to use a long cable to connect it to the antenna. You may want to consider something like this: Canada Computers has a few models of outdoor access points. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 28 14:53:59 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 10:53:59 -0400 Subject: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? In-Reply-To: <503CD787.6080509-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1346107104.91072.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120828131825.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <503CD787.6080509@rogers.com> Message-ID: James, On Aug 28, 2012 10:37 AM, "James Knott" wrote: > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> Some will. Some won't. At best you will get 150Mbps (and that's the >> theoretical max). >> >> Two antennas max out at 300, and three antennas max out at 450Mbps. > > > I recently read a book about 802.11n and how it uses MIMO What was the name of this book? May try to browse through it when I get a chance William > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 28 15:11:32 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 11:11:32 -0400 Subject: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? In-Reply-To: References: <1346107104.91072.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120828131825.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <503CD787.6080509@rogers.com> Message-ID: <503CDFA4.6090306@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > > > I recently read a book about 802.11n and how it uses MIMO > > What was the name of this book? May try to browse through it when I > get a chance > 802.11n: A Survival Guide http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920021988.do However, you may want to read 802.11 Wireless Networks: The Definitive Guide first, as it provides the basics that the 802.11n book builds on. http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596001834.do -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 28 16:10:12 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 12:10:12 -0400 Subject: Slub/slab paging Message-ID: Morning, I have a quick question that Google is not being too helpful. I am trying to find if Linux do use SLUB for user space page management. Would anybody know if that's the case? I mean would you go looking under the slab statistics for application related memory stuff? After Googling a bit, I get a feeling only it only deal with kernel paging as I couldn't find any application related discussion. William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 28 18:03:08 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 14:03:08 -0400 Subject: Slub/slab paging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120828180308.GD1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 12:10:12PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > I have a quick question that Google is not being too helpful. I am trying > to find if Linux do use SLUB for user space page management. > > Would anybody know if that's the case? I mean would you go looking under > the slab statistics for application related memory stuff? > > After Googling a bit, I get a feeling only it only deal with kernel paging > as I couldn't find any application related discussion. The kernel supports multiple memory allocation systems. SLUB, SLAB and SLOB are the ones I know of. It is a configuration choice in the kernel for which one to use. I believe SLAB is the default these days, while SLUB used to be a few years ago. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 28 18:20:05 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 11:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? In-Reply-To: <20120828132023.GC1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1346107104.91072.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120828131825.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120828132023.GC1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1346178005.44046.YahooMailNeo@web113409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hmm... Has anyone used a wireless router as wireless adapter? Buying another wireless router (DIR-655 what I already have) would be cheaper than buying separate 3-antenna adapter and external 3-antenna. -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lennart Sorensen > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 9:20:23 AM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 09:18:25AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Some will.? Some won't.? At best you will get 150Mbps (and that's > the >> theoretical max). >> >> Two antennas max out at 300, and three antennas max out at 450Mbps. > > Also part of 802.11n is actually MIMO (multiple in, multiple out) which > gives it longer range and better coverrage by using two or more antennas > to use reflections for signal boosting.? So by using one antenna (even > if it is a good one) you are likely to get a much worse result. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 28 18:35:32 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 14:35:32 -0400 Subject: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? In-Reply-To: <1346178005.44046.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3M5A34FEqDeB/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1346107104.91072.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120828131825.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120828132023.GC1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1346178005.44046.YahooMailNeo@web113409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have used two early model Linksys WRT-54G (Linux capable) routers re-flashed with DD-WRT Linux to do wireless bridging (not quite what you are asking, but close). As long as you can live with the speed limits of 802.11g this is a good solution. On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:20 PM, William Park wrote: > Hmm... Has anyone used a wireless router as wireless adapter? > > Buying another wireless router (DIR-655 what I already have) > would be cheaper than buying separate 3-antenna adapter and > external 3-antenna. > -- > > William > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lennart Sorensen >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Cc: >> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 9:20:23 AM >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? >> >> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 09:18:25AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> Some will. Some won't. At best you will get 150Mbps (and that's >> the >>> theoretical max). >>> >>> Two antennas max out at 300, and three antennas max out at 450Mbps. >> >> Also part of 802.11n is actually MIMO (multiple in, multiple out) which >> gives it longer range and better coverrage by using two or more antennas >> to use reflections for signal boosting. So by using one antenna (even >> if it is a good one) you are likely to get a much worse result. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 28 18:35:52 2012 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 14:35:52 -0400 Subject: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? In-Reply-To: <1346178005.44046.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3M5A34FEqDeB/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1346107104.91072.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120828131825.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120828132023.GC1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1346178005.44046.YahooMailNeo@web113409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <503D0F88.5010807@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > Hmm... Has anyone used a wireless router as wireless adapter? > > Buying another wireless router (DIR-655 what I already have) > would be cheaper than buying separate 3-antenna adapter and > external 3-antenna. Yes, with most WiFi routers, it's a simple process to configure them as an access point. You can also buy access points without the router/firewall function. I have one, a TP-Link TL-WA901ND. However, the reason for the external antenna is to obtain better range than the built in antenna provides. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 28 20:10:09 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 13:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? In-Reply-To: <503D0F88.5010807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1346107104.91072.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20120828131825.GB1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20120828132023.GC1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1346178005.44046.YahooMailNeo@web113409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <503D0F88.5010807@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1346184609.19445.YahooMailNeo@web113411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It seems that "WDS bridge" is what I'm after.? Ok, here is what I found so far: ??? - I was hoping to buy another D-Link DIR-655 router, but ??? ? it seems that "bridge" feature was removed in the latest ????? firmware. ??? - TP-LINK TL-WR1043ND router has "WDS bridge" feature. Of course, the cheapest option is turn my tower around, but it's not as easy as it sounds. :-( -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: James Knott > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 2:35:52 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: (question) 3 antenna wireless card -- work with only 1 antenna? > > William Park wrote: >> Hmm... Has anyone used a wireless router as wireless adapter? >> >> Buying another wireless router (DIR-655 what I already have) >> would be cheaper than buying separate 3-antenna adapter and >> external 3-antenna. > > Yes, with most WiFi routers, it's a simple process to configure them as an > access point.? You can also buy access points without the router/firewall > function.? I have one, a TP-Link TL-WA901ND. However, the reason for the > external antenna is to obtain better range than the built in antenna provides. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Lmt0BfyYGMw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 29 01:29:57 2012 From: sciguy-Lmt0BfyYGMw at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Lmt0BfyYGMw at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 21:29:57 -0400 Subject: My struggle with getting small Linux distros installed on my laptop Message-ID: Hello For anyone with an HP TX2 Touchsmart laptop, I had a lot of time on my hands the past couple of days and attempted to try several live linux distros with a mind to install my best choice on to a Kingston 32GB USB stick. I ended up choosing Mint/Xfce despite a speed penalty. It did, after all, recognise the lion's share of devices on my laptop. I burned 11 distros on to 11 DVDs, and scored them based on some criteria I thought of "off the cuff": Wireless Touch Stylus Camera Sound Disk recognition Office software Ease of use (subjective scale 0(easy)-5(difficult)) Detection and use of Network printer Speed (subjective scale 1(slow) - 5(fast)) If this is of interest, check out my blog: http://bit.ly/NBobw4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 00:48:23 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 20:48:23 -0400 Subject: Don't make the mistake I made (new laptop) Message-ID: I just bought a Toshiba P850-057 - specs are a bit hard to come by as this model is "exclusive" to Future Shop. More on other configuration challenges in email(s) to follow. My mistake was in assuming that because it had a good Nvidia card (GeForce GT 630M) with 2GB of RAM that driving my Dell U3011 at its full resolution of 2560x1600 wouldn't be a problem. Because, after all, HDMI 1.4 supports 3840x2160. But. In looking at documentation (after I made the purchase) for various P850 type laptops with varying Nvidia cards, the max resolution out through the HDMI port is always noted as being 1920x1200. And that's all that appears to be supported by Windows or Linux on this machine. Looking at the HDMI specs, the max resolution of HDMI v1 is 1920x1200. Of course HDMI v1.3 is getting long in the tooth now and almost all devices (claim to) support v1.4. But I'm getting a bit of Bill Gates syndrome here: "1920x1200 should be enough for anyone!" Just a cautionary tale, with the usual punchline: "don't assume." I still think it was a reasonable assumption, but that requires the manufacturers to be reasonable. While the computer has two video outs (HDMI and VGA), it won't drive two external monitors and the internal monitor at the same time. However, it will drive two externals if the LVDS is turned off. That's fairly nice. And it's running a Samsung Syncmaster 2343 at its full resolution of 2048x1152 over VGA while also running the Dell at 1920x1200. And on this machine, Arandr is actually better behaved than Windows' screen configuration utility. Also on the plus side the laptop not only has four USB ports, but all four are USB3. And when I went looking for instructions on how to change the hard drive, I found a video on YouTube - posted by Toshiba Europe. So Apple is welding its devices shut, and Toshiba is telling you how to do it yourself. I can get behind that - in fact, it was a significant selling point. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 01:05:43 2012 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 18:05:43 -0700 Subject: Don't make the mistake I made (new laptop) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What's the native resolution on the internal LCD? On Aug 29, 2012 5:49 PM, "Giles Orr" wrote: > I just bought a Toshiba P850-057 - specs are a bit hard to come by as > this model is "exclusive" to Future Shop. More on other configuration > challenges in email(s) to follow. > > My mistake was in assuming that because it had a good Nvidia card > (GeForce GT 630M) with 2GB of RAM that driving my Dell U3011 at its > full resolution of 2560x1600 wouldn't be a problem. Because, after > all, HDMI 1.4 supports 3840x2160. But. In looking at documentation > (after I made the purchase) for various P850 type laptops with varying > Nvidia cards, the max resolution out through the HDMI port is always > noted as being 1920x1200. And that's all that appears to be supported > by Windows or Linux on this machine. > > Looking at the HDMI specs, the max resolution of HDMI v1 is 1920x1200. > Of course HDMI v1.3 is getting long in the tooth now and almost all > devices (claim to) support v1.4. But I'm getting a bit of Bill Gates > syndrome here: "1920x1200 should be enough for anyone!" > > Just a cautionary tale, with the usual punchline: "don't assume." I > still think it was a reasonable assumption, but that requires the > manufacturers to be reasonable. > > While the computer has two video outs (HDMI and VGA), it won't drive > two external monitors and the internal monitor at the same time. > However, it will drive two externals if the LVDS is turned off. > That's fairly nice. And it's running a Samsung Syncmaster 2343 at its > full resolution of 2048x1152 over VGA while also running the Dell at > 1920x1200. And on this machine, Arandr is actually better behaved > than Windows' screen configuration utility. > > Also on the plus side the laptop not only has four USB ports, but all > four are USB3. And when I went looking for instructions on how to > change the hard drive, I found a video on YouTube - posted by Toshiba > Europe. So Apple is welding its devices shut, and Toshiba is telling > you how to do it yourself. I can get behind that - in fact, it was a > significant selling point. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 13:02:15 2012 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:02:15 -0400 Subject: Don't make the mistake I made (new laptop) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 29 August 2012 21:05, Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Aug 29, 2012 5:49 PM, "Giles Orr" wrote: >> >> I just bought a Toshiba P850-057 - specs are a bit hard to come by as >> this model is "exclusive" to Future Shop. More on other configuration >> challenges in email(s) to follow. >> >> My mistake was in assuming that because it had a good Nvidia card >> (GeForce GT 630M) with 2GB of RAM that driving my Dell U3011 at its >> full resolution of 2560x1600 wouldn't be a problem. Because, after >> all, HDMI 1.4 supports 3840x2160. But. In looking at documentation >> (after I made the purchase) for various P850 type laptops with varying >> Nvidia cards, the max resolution out through the HDMI port is always >> noted as being 1920x1200. And that's all that appears to be supported >> by Windows or Linux on this machine. >> >> Looking at the HDMI specs, the max resolution of HDMI v1 is 1920x1200. >> Of course HDMI v1.3 is getting long in the tooth now and almost all >> devices (claim to) support v1.4. But I'm getting a bit of Bill Gates >> syndrome here: "1920x1200 should be enough for anyone!" >> >> Just a cautionary tale, with the usual punchline: "don't assume." I >> still think it was a reasonable assumption, but that requires the >> manufacturers to be reasonable. >> >> While the computer has two video outs (HDMI and VGA), it won't drive >> two external monitors and the internal monitor at the same time. >> However, it will drive two externals if the LVDS is turned off. >> That's fairly nice. And it's running a Samsung Syncmaster 2343 at its >> full resolution of 2048x1152 over VGA while also running the Dell at >> 1920x1200. And on this machine, Arandr is actually better behaved >> than Windows' screen configuration utility. >> >> Also on the plus side the laptop not only has four USB ports, but all >> four are USB3. And when I went looking for instructions on how to >> change the hard drive, I found a video on YouTube - posted by Toshiba >> Europe. So Apple is welding its devices shut, and Toshiba is telling >> you how to do it yourself. I can get behind that - in fact, it was a >> significant selling point. >> > What's the native resolution on the internal LCD? 1366x768. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 14:06:05 2012 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Don't make the mistake I made (new laptop) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Giles Orr | I just bought a Toshiba P850-057 - specs are a bit hard to come by as | this model is "exclusive" to Future Shop. I assume that you know that Future Shop has a really great return policy? If it is within 2 weeks (15 days?) of purchase, you can return a computer for even stupid reasons (I think that you have to state reason). Of course it sometimes takes more than two weeks to figure out that you have an intractable problem with a device. | More on other configuration | challenges in email(s) to follow. Thanks: we can all learn from this. | My mistake was in assuming that because it had a good Nvidia card | (GeForce GT 630M) with 2GB of RAM that driving my Dell U3011 at its | full resolution of 2560x1600 wouldn't be a problem. Because, after | all, HDMI 1.4 supports 3840x2160. That is the theory. Under what conditions does it actually work? (I don't just mean on your particular computer.) Does the U3011 support full resolution via HDMI? The magic gateway to higher resolution appears to be DisplayPort these days. My (old) 2560x1600 monitor only supports dual-link DVI but that appears to be obsolescent. A DisplayPort to dual-link DVI adapter costs about $100 and needs a USB connection to supply power. Yuck. | But. In looking at documentation | (after I made the purchase) for various P850 type laptops with varying | Nvidia cards, the max resolution out through the HDMI port is always | noted as being 1920x1200. And that's all that appears to be supported | by Windows or Linux on this machine. | | Looking at the HDMI specs, the max resolution of HDMI v1 is 1920x1200. | Of course HDMI v1.3 is getting long in the tooth now and almost all | devices (claim to) support v1.4. But I'm getting a bit of Bill Gates | syndrome here: "1920x1200 should be enough for anyone!" Consider yourself lucky that it isn't limited to 1920x1080. That seems to be the universal assumption. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 17:48:26 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 13:48:26 -0400 Subject: Is "2nd level indirection" possible in bash? Message-ID: <20120830174826.GA4687@waltdnes.org> I'm trying to do the same bash processing on 3 text files with different formats. The processing is linear. The main loop is... while read do dataline=${REPLY} # do a bunch of processing done < input.txt Everything is the same, except the column numbers of the various items I'm processing. I don't want to keep 3 copies of basically the same file, with column numbers changed. Here's my "Plan A"; * set up 3 separate "format files", e.g... f_yr="25:4" f_mo="32:2" f_dy="37:4" f_data="50:5" * "source" the appropriate "format file" for the text file I'm processing, and use those values in the script. Here's one function as an example # # Routine to assemble date in YYYYMMDD format, using column locations # imported in format file (i.e. 2nd parameter on commandline) calc_yyyymmdd() { yyyymmdd="${dataline:${f_yr}}${dataline:${f_mo}}${dataline:${f_dy}}" export yyyymmdd } This does not work. Is "2nd level indirection" allowed in bash? My "Plan B" is a heavy-handed hack... * Keep a master copy of the script with lines like... yyyymmdd="${dataline:f_yr}${dataline:f_mo}${dataline:f_dy}" * Replace the "format files" with scripts that run sed, and generate a temporary version to do the processing. E.g... #!/bin/bash sed "s/f_yr/25:4/ s/f_mo/32:2/ s/f_dy/37:4/ s/f_data/50:5/" fluxmaster.txt > f1 chmod 744 f1 * This changes the example script line to... yyyymmdd="${dataline:25:4}${dataline:32:2}${dataline:37:4}" * Then run the temporary copy (i.e. f1). Any ideas/suggestions/improvements? -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 17:53:17 2012 From: bdwalton-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ben Walton) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 13:53:17 -0400 Subject: Is "2nd level indirection" possible in bash? In-Reply-To: <20120830174826.GA4687-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120830174826.GA4687@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Hi Walter, > # Routine to assemble date in YYYYMMDD format, using column locations > # imported in format file (i.e. 2nd parameter on commandline) > calc_yyyymmdd() { > yyyymmdd="${dataline:${f_yr}}${dataline:${f_mo}}${dataline:${f_dy}}" > export yyyymmdd > } I think this is what you're after (assuming I understand what you're trying to do): ME=ben varname=ME echo ${!varname} You build up the variable you're after then then use the ! to dereference the name. Thanks -Ben -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ben Walton Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 18:25:42 2012 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 11:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is "2nd level indirection" possible in bash? In-Reply-To: <20120830174826.GA4687-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20120830174826.GA4687@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1346351142.34017.YahooMailNeo@web113411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Solution is ??? eval yyyymmdd="\${dataline:${f_yr}}\${dataline:${f_mo}}\${dataline:${f_dy}}" Perhaps, a better approach might be something like ??? yyyy=${dataline:25:4} ? ? mm=${dataline:32:2} ??? dd=${dataline:37:4} ??? yyyymmdd=$yyyy$mm$dd You would have to keep "f_yr", "f_mo", "f_dy" somewhere, so "yyyy", "mm", "dd" would be the same hassle. -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: Walter Dnes > To: Toronto Linux Users Group > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 1:48:26 PM > Subject: [TLUG]: Is "2nd level indirection" possible in bash? > > ? I'm trying to do the same bash processing on 3 text files with > different formats.? The processing is linear.? The main loop is... > ? while read > ? do > ? ? ? dataline=${REPLY} > # do a bunch of processing > ? done < input.txt > > ? Everything is the same, except the column numbers of the various items > I'm processing.? I don't want to keep 3 copies of basically the same > file, with column numbers changed.? Here's my "Plan A"; > > * set up 3 separate "format files", e.g... > > f_yr="25:4" > f_mo="32:2" > f_dy="37:4" > f_data="50:5" > > * "source" the appropriate "format file" for the text file > I'm > ? processing, and use those values in the script.? Here's one function > ? as an example > > # > # Routine to assemble date in YYYYMMDD format, using column locations > # imported in format file (i.e. 2nd parameter on commandline) > calc_yyyymmdd() { > ? > yyyymmdd="${dataline:${f_yr}}${dataline:${f_mo}}${dataline:${f_dy}}" > ? export yyyymmdd > } > > ? This does not work.? Is "2nd level indirection" allowed in bash?? My > "Plan B" is a heavy-handed hack... > > * Keep a master copy of the script with lines like... > > ? yyyymmdd="${dataline:f_yr}${dataline:f_mo}${dataline:f_dy}" > > * Replace the "format files" with scripts that run sed, and generate a > ? temporary version to do the processing.? E.g... > > #!/bin/bash > sed "s/f_yr/25:4/ > s/f_mo/32:2/ > s/f_dy/37:4/ > s/f_data/50:5/" fluxmaster.txt > f1 > chmod 744 f1 > > * This changes the example script line to... > > ? yyyymmdd="${dataline:25:4}${dataline:32:2}${dataline:37:4}" > > * Then run the temporary copy (i.e. f1). > > ? Any ideas/suggestions/improvements? > > -- > Walter Dnes > I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 20:19:40 2012 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:19:40 -0400 Subject: Is "2nd level indirection" possible in bash? In-Reply-To: References: <20120830174826.GA4687@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20120830201940.GA4994@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 01:53:17PM -0400, Ben Walton wrote > Hi Walter, > > > # Routine to assemble date in YYYYMMDD format, using column locations > > # imported in format file (i.e. 2nd parameter on commandline) > > calc_yyyymmdd() { > > yyyymmdd="${dataline:${f_yr}}${dataline:${f_mo}}${dataline:${f_dy}}" > > export yyyymmdd > > } > > I think this is what you're after (assuming I understand what you're > trying to do): > > ME=ben > varname=ME > echo ${!varname} > > You build up the variable you're after then then use the ! to > dereference the name. Thanks. That looks like what I want. -- Walter Dnes I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 20:33:51 2012 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:33:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Is "2nd level indirection" possible in bash? In-Reply-To: References: <20120830174826.GA4687@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Aug 2012, Ben Walton wrote: > Hi Walter, > >> # Routine to assemble date in YYYYMMDD format, using column locations >> # imported in format file (i.e. 2nd parameter on commandline) >> calc_yyyymmdd() { >> yyyymmdd="${dataline:${f_yr}}${dataline:${f_mo}}${dataline:${f_dy}}" >> export yyyymmdd >> } > > I think this is what you're after (assuming I understand what you're > trying to do): > > ME=ben > varname=ME > echo ${!varname} > > You build up the variable you're after then then use the ! to > dereference the name. In shells that don't support the indirect expansion, use eval: eval echo "\$$varname" -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 20:49:01 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:49:01 -0400 Subject: Don't make the mistake I made (new laptop) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120830204901.GE1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 08:48:23PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > I just bought a Toshiba P850-057 - specs are a bit hard to come by as > this model is "exclusive" to Future Shop. More on other configuration > challenges in email(s) to follow. > > My mistake was in assuming that because it had a good Nvidia card > (GeForce GT 630M) with 2GB of RAM that driving my Dell U3011 at its > full resolution of 2560x1600 wouldn't be a problem. Because, after > all, HDMI 1.4 supports 3840x2160. But. In looking at documentation > (after I made the purchase) for various P850 type laptops with varying > Nvidia cards, the max resolution out through the HDMI port is always > noted as being 1920x1200. And that's all that appears to be supported > by Windows or Linux on this machine. > > Looking at the HDMI specs, the max resolution of HDMI v1 is 1920x1200. > Of course HDMI v1.3 is getting long in the tooth now and almost all > devices (claim to) support v1.4. But I'm getting a bit of Bill Gates > syndrome here: "1920x1200 should be enough for anyone!" Well unfortunately since most video chips also do DVI and single link DVI signaling maxes out as 1920x1200, then that tends to be what you get. HDMI 1.4 can do higher resolution by increasing the signalling rate, which makes it no longer compatible with DVI. To get higher resolution on a laptop, buy one with displayport. Many devices support HDMI 1.4, but generally only to gain support for 3D and sometimes the network link. Very few devices actually support the higher signalling speeds needed for higher resolutions yet. HDMI 1.4 doesn't require support for higher resolutions, it just allows it. > Just a cautionary tale, with the usual punchline: "don't assume." I > still think it was a reasonable assumption, but that requires the > manufacturers to be reasonable. > > While the computer has two video outs (HDMI and VGA), it won't drive > two external monitors and the internal monitor at the same time. > However, it will drive two externals if the LVDS is turned off. > That's fairly nice. And it's running a Samsung Syncmaster 2343 at its > full resolution of 2048x1152 over VGA while also running the Dell at > 1920x1200. And on this machine, Arandr is actually better behaved > than Windows' screen configuration utility. > > Also on the plus side the laptop not only has four USB ports, but all > four are USB3. And when I went looking for instructions on how to > change the hard drive, I found a video on YouTube - posted by Toshiba > Europe. So Apple is welding its devices shut, and Toshiba is telling > you how to do it yourself. I can get behind that - in fact, it was a > significant selling point. I hope that usb3 is more stable than what I have seen under linux (which didn't work so well so far). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 30 20:58:16 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:58:16 -0400 Subject: Don't make the mistake I made (new laptop) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120830205816.GF1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:06:05AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I assume that you know that Future Shop has a really great return policy? > If it is within 2 weeks (15 days?) of purchase, you can return a > computer for even stupid reasons (I think that you have to state > reason). > > Of course it sometimes takes more than two weeks to figure out that > you have an intractable problem with a device. > > Thanks: we can all learn from this. > > That is the theory. Under what conditions does it actually work? (I > don't just mean on your particular computer.) > > Does the U3011 support full resolution via HDMI? No. Duallink DVI or displayport only. HDMI is limited to 1920x1200 on the U3011. So the laptop might even support the full resolution over HDMI, but the screen certainly does not. > The magic gateway to higher resolution appears to be DisplayPort these > days. > > My (old) 2560x1600 monitor only supports dual-link DVI but that > appears to be obsolescent. A DisplayPort to dual-link DVI adapter > costs about $100 and needs a USB connection to supply power. Yuck. > > Consider yourself lucky that it isn't limited to 1920x1080. That > seems to be the universal assumption. 1920x1200 is pretty common on computers. But yes 1920x1080 is quite a common limit too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 02:37:37 2012 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:37:37 -0400 Subject: Semi-Off Topic - The Geek Must Do Before You Die Checklist... Message-ID: Here something amusing : http://www.dailycupoftech.com/2009/05/04/the-geek-must-do-before-you-die-checklist/ . Items on the checklist are a mix of Linux and items from those other operating systems. I went through counting how many I have done my count is 44 (missing a bunch of "other" OS items). Enjoy. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 15:14:15 2012 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:14:15 -0400 Subject: Semi-Off Topic - The Geek Must Do Before You Die Checklist... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120831151415.GG1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:37:37PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Here something amusing : > http://www.dailycupoftech.com/2009/05/04/the-geek-must-do-before-you-die-checklist/ > . Items on the checklist are a mix of Linux and items from those other > operating systems. I went through counting how many I have done my > count is 44 (missing a bunch of "other" OS items). Seems rather mixed. A lot I have done many times, and some things I have no interest in ever doing (and see no point in anyone doing). I can't believe I have replaced 3 laptop keyboards this year alone though. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 15:34:10 2012 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:34:10 -0400 Subject: Semi-Off Topic - The Geek Must Do Before You Die Checklist... In-Reply-To: <20120831151415.GG1239-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20120831151415.GG1239@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <5040D972.5090300@gmail.com> On 12-08-31 11:14 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:37:37PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Here something amusing : >> http://www.dailycupoftech.com/2009/05/04/the-geek-must-do-before-you-die-checklist/ >> . Items on the checklist are a mix of Linux and items from those other >> operating systems. I went through counting how many I have done my >> count is 44 (missing a bunch of "other" OS items). > > Seems rather mixed. A lot I have done many times, and some things I > have no interest in ever doing (and see no point in anyone doing). > > I can't believe I have replaced 3 laptop keyboards this year alone > though. :) I've never actually replaced a laptop keyboard... I've removed, dismantled, repaired and replacd a few though. Ugly, quirky and not recommended, results are mixed, but if the machine is old, it's better than chucking the machine. They should add something about retro computing. For a while in the early 90's I had a passing interest in things like the Coco model 1, the TRS-80, the Timex Sinclair 1000, Commodore pet and C=64. The machines were mostly slightly before my time or, in the case of the C=64, I didn't have access to it when it was in its heyday. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 31 16:59:14 2012 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:59:14 -0400 Subject: Semi-Off Topic - The Geek Must Do Before You Die Checklist... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 30, 2012 10:38 PM, "Colin McGregor" wrote: > > Here something amusing : > http://www.dailycupoftech.com/2009/05/04/the-geek-must-do-before-you-die-checklist/ > . Items on the checklist are a mix of Linux and items from those other > operating systems. I went through counting how many I have done my > count is 44 (missing a bunch of "other" OS items). > > Enjoy. > > Colin. Can one permanently delete a Facebook account? I thought it was like hotel California, you can check out any time but you can never leave. Note I have never had a Facebook account so could be totally wrong. William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: