From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 1 13:13:55 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 09:13:55 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Grant has developed some blood clots in his leg, which is being treated with blood thinners, and such. The expectation is that Grant's body will dissolve the clots in time. He is responding well to treatment for lung infection. They have checked his arteries and his heart, and everything is ok. ... No specific date on a return, but Grant continues to heal more each day, so there is no rush. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 1 16:32:05 2011 From: el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 12:32:05 -0400 Subject: Advice on obtaining a web certificate Message-ID: Greetings Luggers, I'm certain there are folks on the list experienced in obtaining certificates for yer typical Internet-facing apache installation. Can you offer suggestions, tips, favourite / least favourite cert authorities, etc.? Regards, Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 1 16:39:16 2011 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 19:39:16 +0300 Subject: Advice on obtaining a web certificate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Mike wrote: > Greetings Luggers, > > I'm certain there are folks on the list experienced in obtaining > certificates for yer typical Internet-facing apache installation. Can > you offer suggestions, tips, favourite / least favourite cert > authorities, etc.? > I got geotrust Quick SSL it was easy enough to install. At one time I had problems with the request and their support was good and helped me solve the problem and then reissue the certificate. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 1 16:53:18 2011 From: jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jarl Stefansson) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 12:53:18 -0400 Subject: Advice on obtaining a web certificate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think GoDaddy is probably the cheapest but they are a bit "evil", also keep in mind that if you will have old browsers or mobile devices connecting they might not have all the Certificate Authorities that modern browsers have and some have problems with Intermediate certificates or chains. Jarl On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Ori Idan wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Mike wrote: >> >> Greetings Luggers, >> >> I'm certain there are folks on the list experienced in obtaining >> certificates for yer typical Internet-facing apache installation. Can >> you offer suggestions, tips, favourite / least favourite cert >> authorities, etc.? > > I got geotrust Quick SSL it was easy enough to install. > At one time I had problems with the request and their support was good and > helped me solve the problem and then reissue the certificate. > > -- > Ori Idan > > -- Regards, Jarl Stefansson jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org +1-647-869-6908 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 1 17:42:01 2011 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 20:42:01 +0300 Subject: Advice on obtaining a web certificate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Jarl Stefansson wrote: > I think GoDaddy is probably the cheapest but they are a bit "evil", > also keep in mind that if you will have old browsers or mobile devices > connecting they might not have all the Certificate Authorities that > modern browsers have and some have problems with Intermediate > certificates or chains. > I have tried godaddy in the past. I am not sure they are the cheapest any more. Their service level is next to none (to say the least). -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 1 18:24:04 2011 From: ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Ian Garmaise) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 14:24:04 -0400 Subject: Advice on obtaining a web certificate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Hacker News crowd seems to like Namecheap, haven't tried it myself but probably worth a look. Ian On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Ori Idan wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Jarl Stefansson > wrote: > >> I think GoDaddy is probably the cheapest but they are a bit "evil", >> also keep in mind that if you will have old browsers or mobile devices >> connecting they might not have all the Certificate Authorities that >> modern browsers have and some have problems with Intermediate >> certificates or chains. >> > > I have tried godaddy in the past. I am not sure they are the cheapest any > more. > Their service level is next to none (to say the least). > > -- > Ori Idan > > -- ===== Ian Garmaise Consultant Phorix Solutions Group Inc. ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Skype: iantor Toronto: 416.432.2251 NYC: 917.512.9535 http://www.PhorixSol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 1 16:56:28 2011 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 12:56:28 -0400 Subject: Advice on obtaining a web certificate Message-ID: <201109011656.p81GuSZU016953@john.syonex.com> I bet DigiNotar will have some "fire sale" prices real soon now ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DigiNotar :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 2 17:51:54 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 13:51:54 -0400 Subject: Android/OpenGL programming question Message-ID: Hey there, A friend of mine posted this question on Facebook/Stackoverflow, thought I would pass it along: "Is it possible to create a MIP map in open gl es 1.x that only loads the texture resolution it is currently rendering? So instead of loading all the textures resolutions from the largest to the smallest at once, have the mipmap only store the one it is currently rendering. Then have the gl load the new resolution textures as I zoom in and out. This way I could load many large textures onto a surface and zoom out to view them all at once without having any VM budget issues. If gl doesn't have a way to do this, is it possible to override the onDraw function to determine what level of the mipmap is being requested to be rendered so I can manually load a new texture?" -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 2 20:43:46 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 16:43:46 -0400 Subject: Apache book recommendation Message-ID: Hi pal, Most of what I know about Apache has been through google search and reading apache manuals and in build apache documentation. That petty mean my knowledge is patchy as I tend to learn what is required as of that day. Its fine, but it make feel unable of how much I know of apache. I am thinking of fixing this and I need a good technical book that is also a bit entertaining. I do remember reading one in the bookstore a while back and was impressed, but it seem Indigo bookstore is not longer have it. They have nothing Apache specific at the moment. So I went online and Apache books looks dated and reviews a little unhelpful. For example, I had planned to pick "Apache: The definitive guide" but boy, it has a not too impressive review from a good number of people and not sure about it any more. Anyone read any Apache book that they felt was really helpful, and more Apache 2 centric? Would appreciate if you could share that information with us. Have a great long weekend Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 2 23:24:19 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 19:24:19 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian Message-ID: Hello Everyone, Does anyone here use Mint Debian? What are your thoughts..especially for those who have used regular debian? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 00:17:47 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 20:17:47 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E61722B.2070700@gmail.com> On 09/02/2011 07:24 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Does anyone here use Mint Debian? What are your thoughts..especially > for those who have used regular debian? > I have used it for about 8 months as my main desktop, has all the ubuntu/mint love yet rolling update. I haven't rolled much update yet however, it seems to work fine with the Dec 2010 release. Also keeps me away from some of the ubuntu changes going on. I can not trust doing a rolling update without a complete mirror backup that I can re-install assuming the worst. I have mint 10 on my wife's computer, and i don't notice any difference in that LMDE is more complex or less powerful, yet LMDE has the benefit, if i choose, to roll it more recent., and that is the charm of it. I guess I just don't want to be bothered with a update install or clean install i.e. ubuntu way. This reminds me that soon i should in fact roll an update on mine to the latest and greatest packages , but again i want a perfect backup and restore scheme in place first. I may even install LMDE on a temp box, do a a full update, see how it goes. I think its fast becoming the most popular linux distro. -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 01:34:36 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 21:34:36 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 07:24:19PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Does anyone here use Mint Debian? What are your thoughts..especially > for those who have used regular debian? Mint looks very nice, and is well put together, but since they only did 32bit to start, I didn't even care too give it a try. I only do 64bit installs these days. And I am still sticking with plain old Debian for my machines, but I would recommend Mint above Ubuntu any day for people looking for a Linux install that just works. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 01:52:29 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 21:52:29 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: <20110903013436.GP15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hey Lennart, I'm stuck. I'm trying debian stock with my X201, and I can't find a proper flash application. I've tried flash-pluginmoziilla(?), and i've tried adobe-flashplugin but the problem is the mozilla application is no where to be found and the Flash Plugin 10.3 beta is gone because adobe killed it off. Any suggestions? On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 07:24:19PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> Does anyone here use Mint Debian? What are your thoughts..especially >> for those who have used regular debian? > > Mint looks very nice, and is well put together, but since they only did > 32bit to start, I didn't even care too give it a try. ?I only do 64bit > installs these days. > > And I am still sticking with plain old Debian for my machines, but I > would recommend Mint above Ubuntu any day for people looking for a Linux > install that just works. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 02:04:14 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 22:04:14 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Should just be called flashplugin-nonfree. Or you could just use Chrome and it is built in. On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hey Lennart, > > I'm stuck. I'm trying debian stock with my X201, and I can't find a > proper flash application. I've tried flash-pluginmoziilla(?), and i've > tried adobe-flashplugin but the problem is the mozilla application is > no where to be found and the Flash Plugin 10.3 beta is gone because > adobe killed it off. > > Any suggestions? > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 07:24:19PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > >> Does anyone here use Mint Debian? What are your thoughts..especially > >> for those who have used regular debian? > > > > Mint looks very nice, and is well put together, but since they only did > > 32bit to start, I didn't even care too give it a try. I only do 64bit > > installs these days. > > > > And I am still sticking with plain old Debian for my machines, but I > > would recommend Mint above Ubuntu any day for people looking for a Linux > > install that just works. > > > > -- > > Len Sorensen > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else > > Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As > it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. > Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being > intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all > electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's > up to you to protect that right. > > * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: > * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event > -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version > or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp > for business implementation. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dave Germiquet > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 02:11:29 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 22:11:29 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: The flashplugin-nonfree wasn't working for me. It was complaining it couldn't be found.However I ended up using this: http://www.shcherbyna.com/?p=1491 On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Should just be called flashplugin-nonfree. Or you could just use Chrome and > it is built in. > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 9:52 PM, Dave Germiquet > wrote: >> >> Hey Lennart, >> >> I'm stuck. I'm trying debian stock with my X201, and I can't find a >> proper flash application. I've tried flash-pluginmoziilla(?), and i've >> tried adobe-flashplugin but the problem is the mozilla application is >> no where to be found and the Flash Plugin 10.3 beta is gone because >> adobe killed it off. >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Lennart Sorensen >> wrote: >> > On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 07:24:19PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> >> Does anyone here use Mint Debian? What are your thoughts..especially >> >> for those who have used regular debian? >> > >> > Mint looks very nice, and is well put together, but since they only did >> > 32bit to start, I didn't even care too give it a try. ?I only do 64bit >> > installs these days. >> > >> > And I am still sticking with plain old Debian for my machines, but I >> > would recommend Mint above Ubuntu any day for people looking for a Linux >> > install that just works. >> > >> > -- >> > Len Sorensen >> > -- >> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else >> >> Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As >> it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. >> Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being >> intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all >> electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's >> up to you to protect that right. >> >> * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: >> * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event >> -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version >> ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp >> ?? for business implementation. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Dave Germiquet >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > Thomas Milne > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 02:19:19 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 22:19:19 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: <20110903013436.GP15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Mint de is 64bit. -tl On Sep 2, 2011 9:34 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 07:24:19PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> Does anyone here use Mint Debian? What are your thoughts..especially >> for those who have used regular debian? > > Mint looks very nice, and is well put together, but since they only did > 32bit to start, I didn't even care too give it a try. I only do 64bit > installs these days. > > And I am still sticking with plain old Debian for my machines, but I > would recommend Mint above Ubuntu any day for people looking for a Linux > install that just works. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 03:24:39 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 23:24:39 -0400 Subject: Sleep mode. Message-ID: Does anyone know how to enable sleep mode with Squeeze? I think it may be called Suspend in linux. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 10:25:49 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 06:25:49 -0400 Subject: Sleep mode. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: GUI Tools are; System>Preferences>Power Management>On AC Power>Actions>Put Computer To Sleep When Inactive For: ....... On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Does anyone know how to enable sleep mode with Squeeze? I think it may > be called Suspend in linux. > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else > > Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As > it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. > Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being > intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all > electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's > up to you to protect that right. > > * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: > * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event > -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version > ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp > ?? for business implementation. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dave Germiquet > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 16:18:25 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 12:18:25 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110903161825.GQ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 09:52:29PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I'm stuck. I'm trying debian stock with my X201, and I can't find a > proper flash application. I've tried flash-pluginmoziilla(?), and i've > tried adobe-flashplugin but the problem is the mozilla application is > no where to be found and the Flash Plugin 10.3 beta is gone because > adobe killed it off. Well on Debian unstable I use: flashplugin-nonfree 1:2.8.3 It works fine (well as fine as dobe software can be expected to work). It's even 64bit these days. Once installed you can then run 'update-flashplugin-nonfree --install' whenever you want to get the latest version. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 16:19:00 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 12:19:00 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110903161900.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 10:19:19PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > Mint de is 64bit. It wasn't when they first did it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 16:59:59 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 12:59:59 -0400 Subject: Sleep mode. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks. I found it. On Sep 3, 2011 6:26 AM, "Russell Reiter" wrote: > GUI Tools are; > > System>Preferences>Power Management>On AC Power>Actions>Put Computer > To Sleep When Inactive For: ....... > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> Does anyone know how to enable sleep mode with Squeeze? I think it may >> be called Suspend in linux. >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else >> >> Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As >> it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. >> Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being >> intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all >> electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's >> up to you to protect that right. >> >> * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: >> * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event >> -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version >> or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp >> for business implementation. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Dave Germiquet >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 17:03:04 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:03:04 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: <20110903161900.GR15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110903161900.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hey lennart I tried that on the stable version. It installed the package but when it was running the download script it complained that the file was missing on people.debian.org. I think they haven't updated it for version 11. On Sep 3, 2011 12:19 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 10:19:19PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: >> Mint de is 64bit. > > It wasn't when they first did it. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 17:04:30 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:04:30 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110903161900.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Maybe I should have installed unstable. :) On Sep 3, 2011 1:03 PM, "Dave Germiquet" wrote: > Hey lennart > > I tried that on the stable version. It installed the package but when it > was running the download script it complained that the file was missing on > people.debian.org. I think they haven't updated it for version 11. > On Sep 3, 2011 12:19 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" > wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 10:19:19PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: >>> Mint de is 64bit. >> >> It wasn't when they first did it. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 17:33:08 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:33:08 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110903161900.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: What I find frustrating with debian and stable, is that they only have Firefox Browser 3.5.14. With the new release policy of browsers (Releasing new ones all the time), some web sites complain that you have too old of a version of a browser ie. Google Plus. . I tried using Firefox on Debian Stable and it complained on the Google Plus web site that it was too low of a version. IIcan see more sites doing this. I wonder if debian will change there policy on Web Browsers regarding what is stable or not to be more inlined with Web Browser release strategy? Either way Chrome still worked :) On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Maybe I should have installed unstable.? :) > > On Sep 3, 2011 1:03 PM, "Dave Germiquet" wrote: >> Hey lennart >> >> I tried that on the stable version. It installed the package but when it >> was running the download script it complained that the file was missing on >> people.debian.org. I think they haven't updated it for version 11. >> On Sep 3, 2011 12:19 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" >> wrote: >>> On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 10:19:19PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: >>>> Mint de is 64bit. >>> >>> It wasn't when they first did it. >>> >>> -- >>> Len Sorensen >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 17:42:05 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:42:05 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110903161900.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: So, I decided to try Mint Debian linux in a Virtual Box, to give it a shot before making it my Desktop or consdiering it. It's hanging on the Install Linux application trying to load the partitions section. So its stuck here "Select where you want to install Linux", just hangs. My guess its trying to load the partition table. I tried to Run it as Administrator mode, same thing happens. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get it to go through? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 18:32:23 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 14:32:23 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110903161900.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E6272B7.9010701@gmail.com> I had same issue, i solved it and posted it to Mint group, or sent it to Clem, can't remember, i can't remember what i did either, must be getting old :) I will try to find my solution. -tl On 09/03/2011 01:42 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > So, I decided to try Mint Debian linux in a Virtual Box, to give it a > shot before making it my Desktop or consdiering it. > > It's hanging on the Install Linux application trying to load the > partitions section. > > So its stuck here > > "Select where you want to install Linux", just hangs. My guess its > trying to load the partition table. > > I tried to Run it as Administrator mode, same thing happens. Does > anyone have any suggestions on how to get it to go through? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 3 18:37:04 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 14:37:04 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110903161900.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E6273D0.8060300@gmail.com> ok i found it, what its doing it mint backgrounds some tasks while doing the install, i.e. what city, country you are in, etc, so it appears hung at places, but its really off doing something in background, and it seems to only cause issue in vmware (for some reason), anyways i reboot tried install again, and again, then wait more then 3 minutes and it came back, and I continued. I guess they didn't read my post and look after the issue. -tl On 09/03/2011 01:42 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > So, I decided to try Mint Debian linux in a Virtual Box, to give it a > shot before making it my Desktop or consdiering it. > > It's hanging on the Install Linux application trying to load the > partitions section. > > So its stuck here > > "Select where you want to install Linux", just hangs. My guess its > trying to load the partition table. > > I tried to Run it as Administrator mode, same thing happens. Does > anyone have any suggestions on how to get it to go through? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 01:36:46 2011 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 21:36:46 -0400 Subject: Shell script help needed Message-ID: Folks - I have a mass of files with names like crw_0858.tiff that I need to convert to black an white using the following command line. convert crw_0858.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0858.tiff convert crw_0859.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0859.tiff etc This is beyond my shell-scripting capabilities. Can anyone suggest a simple shell script that can do this? Error checking is not required since I'm the only one to run this thing, and I do it manually. Thanks in advance... Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 01:39:23 2011 From: Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Alexander Short) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 21:39:23 -0400 Subject: Shell script help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dir /b > file.txt Open in excel Use concatenate formula then fill down Copy and paste into nix. No scripting req'd -- Alexander Short Associate Director, IT Operations Iovate Health Sciences Inc. 381 North Service Road West Oakville, ON L6M 0H4 www.iovate.com E-mail: alexander.short at iovate.com Phone: 905.678.4024 Toll-Free: 1.888.334.4448 x 4024 Cell: 416.317.9924 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic transmission and any attachments hereto are intended for the confidential use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential information belonging to Iovate. You are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action, based on the contents of this electronic transmission and without Iovate?s express authorization, is strictly prohibited. If you have reason to believe that you have received this transmission in error, please notify immediately by return e-mail and delete and destroy this communication. [Sent from a BlackBerry Wireless Device] ----- Original Message ----- From: phiscock at ee.ryerson.ca [mailto:phiscock at ee.ryerson.ca] Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 09:36 PM To: tlug at ss.org Subject: [TLUG]: Shell script help needed Folks - I have a mass of files with names like crw_0858.tiff that I need to convert to black an white using the following command line. convert crw_0858.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0858.tiff convert crw_0859.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0859.tiff etc This is beyond my shell-scripting capabilities. Can anyone suggest a simple shell script that can do this? Error checking is not required since I'm the only one to run this thing, and I do it manually. Thanks in advance... Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 01:42:16 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 21:42:16 -0400 Subject: Shell script help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 9:36 PM, wrote: > Folks - > > I have a mass of files with names like crw_0858.tiff that I need to > convert to black an white using the following command line. > > convert crw_0858.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0858.tiff > convert crw_0859.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0859.tiff > > etc > > This is beyond my shell-scripting capabilities. Can anyone suggest a > simple shell script that can do this? > > Error checking is not required since I'm the only one to run this thing, > and I do it manually. I'd use "cut", liberally... for i in crw_*.tiff; do bname=`echo $i | cut -d _ -f 2 | cut -d . -f 1` convert crw_${bname}.tiff -colorspace Gray output_${bname}.tiff done The idea, here, is to chop off the prefix and suffix; bname will contain values like "0858" and "0859". -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 01:44:07 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 21:44:07 -0400 Subject: Shell script help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E62D7E7.5010700@gmail.com> Save this to a file in the same directory where you store the images ============== #!/bin/sh for k in crw_*.tiff do output_name=output_$(echo $k | cut -f2- -d_) convert $k -colorspace Gray $output_name done ================ On 03/09/11 09:36 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Folks - > > I have a mass of files with names like crw_0858.tiff that I need to > convert to black an white using the following command line. > > convert crw_0858.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0858.tiff > convert crw_0859.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0859.tiff > > etc > > This is beyond my shell-scripting capabilities. Can anyone suggest a > simple shell script that can do this? > > Error checking is not required since I'm the only one to run this thing, > and I do it manually. > > Thanks in advance... > > Peter > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 01:51:54 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 21:51:54 -0400 Subject: Shell script help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E62D9BA.6060905@gmail.com> On 09/03/2011 09:36 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Folks - > > I have a mass of files with names like crw_0858.tiff that I need to > convert to black an white using the following command line. > > convert crw_0858.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0858.tiff > convert crw_0859.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0859.tiff > > etc > > This is beyond my shell-scripting capabilities. Can anyone suggest a > simple shell script that can do this? > > Error checking is not required since I'm the only one to run this thing, > and I do it manually. > > Thanks in advance... > > Peter > ls *.tiff | xargs -i convert {} -colorspace Gray output_{}.tiff but your get tiff.tiff at end of each file, odd, but not illegal, doesn't seem like you care about output name except that it has the numeric number still in it. -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 02:45:24 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 22:45:24 -0400 Subject: Problems with wireless Message-ID: Hi All, I have a Intel Corporation Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (rev 35), on my Thinkpad X201 and I'm having a problem with wireless was wondering if one of you could give me tips on how to fix it. The wireless adapter seems to work fine on Windows, however when I'm using it on Linux after awhile the connection slows down until it completely dies. Is there a way to debug this? Also the last time it totally lost connection to my router where it couldn't see the router at all. Rebooting into windows showed the router was still broadcasting and I could connect to it. I am also wondering if its related to the N version of the wifi. How can I force this linux computer to connect with G instead of N to test out my theory? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 02:49:13 2011 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 22:49:13 -0400 Subject: Shell script help needed: Thanks, Guys In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <228ab117855f614813c99567d8745af1.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Thanks guys, I should be able to make these work. It's also really interesting to see the different possible approaches to this - Peter > Folks - > > I have a mass of files with names like crw_0858.tiff that I need to > convert to black an white using the following command line. > > convert crw_0858.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0858.tiff > convert crw_0859.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0859.tiff > > etc > > This is beyond my shell-scripting capabilities. Can anyone suggest a > simple shell script that can do this? > > Error checking is not required since I'm the only one to run this thing, > and I do it manually. > > Thanks in advance... > > Peter > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 03:15:23 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 23:15:23 -0400 Subject: Problems with wireless In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110904031523.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 10:45:24PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I have a Intel Corporation Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (rev 35), on my > Thinkpad X201 and I'm having a problem with wireless was wondering if > one of you could give me tips on how to fix it. The wireless adapter > seems to work fine on Windows, however when I'm using it on Linux > after awhile the connection slows down until it completely dies. Is > there a way to debug this? Also the last time it totally lost > connection to my router where it couldn't see the router at all. > Rebooting into windows showed the router was still broadcasting and I > could connect to it. > > I am also wondering if its related to the N version of the wifi. How > can I force this linux computer to connect with G instead of N to test > out my theory? Which kernel version? Which iwl firmware version? Which AP? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 03:17:51 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 23:17:51 -0400 Subject: Shell script help needed In-Reply-To: <4E62D9BA.6060905-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E62D9BA.6060905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110904031751.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 09:51:54PM -0400, Ted wrote: > On 09/03/2011 09:36 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >Folks - > > > >I have a mass of files with names like crw_0858.tiff that I need to > >convert to black an white using the following command line. > > > >convert crw_0858.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0858.tiff > >convert crw_0859.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0859.tiff > > > >etc > > > >This is beyond my shell-scripting capabilities. Can anyone suggest a > >simple shell script that can do this? > > > >Error checking is not required since I'm the only one to run this thing, > >and I do it manually. > > > >Thanks in advance... > > > >Peter > > > ls *.tiff | xargs -i convert {} -colorspace Gray output_{}.tiff > > but your get tiff.tiff at end of each file, odd, but not illegal, > doesn't seem like you care about > output name except that it has the numeric number still in it. Why not ls *.tiff | xargs -i convert {} -colorspace Gray output_{} then and avoid .tiff.tiff? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 05:05:04 2011 From: jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jarl Stefansson) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 01:05:04 -0400 Subject: Shell script help needed In-Reply-To: <20110904031751.GT15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4E62D9BA.6060905@gmail.com> <20110904031751.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I personally like to use find for this sort of thing because you can do recursive work and get rid of all the pesky whitespace issues and such, here something i think should work (I have not tested it), only difference is the output filename. find . -type f -iname '*.tiff' -exec convert {} -colorspace Gray output_{} \; Jarl On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 09:51:54PM -0400, Ted wrote: >> On 09/03/2011 09:36 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >Folks - >> > >> >I have a mass of files with names like crw_0858.tiff that I need to >> >convert to black an white using the following command line. >> > >> >convert crw_0858.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0858.tiff >> >convert crw_0859.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0859.tiff >> > >> >etc >> > >> >This is beyond my shell-scripting capabilities. Can anyone suggest a >> >simple shell script that can do this? >> > >> >Error checking is not required since I'm the only one to run this thing, >> >and I do it manually. >> > >> >Thanks in advance... >> > >> >Peter >> > >> ls *.tiff | xargs -i convert {} -colorspace Gray output_{}.tiff >> >> but your get tiff.tiff at end of each file, odd, but not illegal, >> doesn't seem like you care about >> output name except that it has the numeric number still in it. > > Why not > ls *.tiff | xargs -i convert {} -colorspace Gray output_{} > then and avoid .tiff.tiff? > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Regards, Jarl Stefansson jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org +1-647-869-6908 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 05:38:09 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 01:38:09 -0400 Subject: Shell script help needed In-Reply-To: <20110904031751.GT15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4E62D9BA.6060905@gmail.com> <20110904031751.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E630EC1.1050300@gmail.com> i assumed the converter would want a tiff added to the resultant name of the name input, there by specifying the conversion type, but it may not be the case with "convert". -tl On 09/03/2011 11:17 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 09:51:54PM -0400, Ted wrote: >> On 09/03/2011 09:36 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >>> Folks - >>> >>> I have a mass of files with names like crw_0858.tiff that I need to >>> convert to black an white using the following command line. >>> >>> convert crw_0858.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0858.tiff >>> convert crw_0859.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0859.tiff >>> >>> etc >>> >>> This is beyond my shell-scripting capabilities. Can anyone suggest a >>> simple shell script that can do this? >>> >>> Error checking is not required since I'm the only one to run this thing, >>> and I do it manually. >>> >>> Thanks in advance... >>> >>> Peter >>> >> ls *.tiff | xargs -i convert {} -colorspace Gray output_{}.tiff >> >> but your get tiff.tiff at end of each file, odd, but not illegal, >> doesn't seem like you care about >> output name except that it has the numeric number still in it. > Why not > ls *.tiff | xargs -i convert {} -colorspace Gray output_{} > then and avoid .tiff.tiff? > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 07:10:03 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 03:10:03 -0400 Subject: Shell script help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110904071003.GA10183@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 09:36:46PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Folks - > > I have a mass of files with names like crw_0858.tiff that I need to > convert to black an white using the following command line. > > convert crw_0858.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0858.tiff > convert crw_0859.tiff -colorspace Gray output_0859.tiff > > etc > > This is beyond my shell-scripting capabilities. Can anyone suggest a > simple shell script that can do this? > > Error checking is not required since I'm the only one to run this thing, > and I do it manually. > > Thanks in advance... > > Peter for i in crw_*.tiff; do convert $i -colorspace Gray output_${i#crw_} done -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 17:23:13 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 13:23:13 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110903161900.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110904172313.GU15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 01:33:08PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > What I find frustrating with debian and stable, is that they only have > Firefox Browser 3.5.14. > > With the new release policy of browsers (Releasing new ones all the > time), some web sites complain that you have too old of a version of a > browser ie. Google Plus. Yes some websites are annoying. I guess the solution in cases of using a distribution that doesn't release every 5 minutes, is something like the debian backports or debian volatile, where packages are updated but compiled to be used with the current stable release. Lenny (old-stable) released with 3.0, and backports provided 3.5. Squeeze shipped with 3.5, but unfortunately no backport has been done of 3.6 or anything newer at this time. > I tried using Firefox on Debian Stable and it complained on the Google > Plus web site that it was too low of a version. IIcan see more sites > doing this. I wonder if debian will change there policy on Web > Browsers regarding what is stable or not to be more inlined with Web > Browser release strategy? I highly doubt debian will change the policy of what stable is, whether it is a web browser or anything else doesn't matter. The fact that chrome and firefox want to have a bonkers release cycle isn't Debian's problem to solve and they are not going to. There is always the constantly usable testing project (cut.debian.net I think it is). > Either way Chrome still worked :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From voidpointer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 19:04:25 2011 From: voidpointer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Nicolaides) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 15:04:25 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110903161900.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: If you want to run more up to date versions of Firefox on Debian stable you could always add in the Debian Mozilla Team's repos. http://mozilla.debian.net/ >From the site you can select what you want, add the lines to your sources.list and then apt-get your way to a newer browser. Keep in mind it will be branded Iceweasel since they are Debian packages but all the Firefox plugins should work. Not 100% sure though as I use Chromium on testing... ;) Cheers, Jason On 3 September 2011 13:33, Dave Germiquet wrote: > What I find frustrating with debian and stable, is that they only have > Firefox Browser 3.5.14. > > With the new release policy of browsers (Releasing new ones all the > time), some web sites complain that you have too old of a version of a > browser ie. Google Plus. > . > I tried using Firefox on Debian Stable and it complained on the Google > Plus web site that it was too low of a version. IIcan see more sites > doing this. I wonder if debian will change there policy on Web > Browsers regarding what is stable or not to be more inlined with Web > Browser release strategy? > > Either way Chrome still worked :) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 19:52:36 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 15:52:36 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110903161900.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E63D704.1070305@gmail.com> Or you can just go to mozilla site, download firefox and extract tar.gz into your /opt/ directory. On 04/09/11 03:04 PM, Jason Nicolaides wrote: > If you want to run more up to date versions of Firefox on Debian > stable you could always add in the Debian Mozilla Team's repos. > > http://mozilla.debian.net/ > > From the site you can select what you want, add the lines to your > sources.list and then apt-get your way to a newer browser. Keep in > mind it will be branded Iceweasel since they are Debian packages but > all the Firefox plugins should work. Not 100% sure though as I use > Chromium on testing... ;) > > Cheers, > Jason > > On 3 September 2011 13:33, Dave Germiquet > wrote: > > What I find frustrating with debian and stable, is that they only have > Firefox Browser 3.5.14. > > With the new release policy of browsers (Releasing new ones all the > time), some web sites complain that you have too old of a version of a > browser ie. Google Plus. > . > I tried using Firefox on Debian Stable and it complained on the Google > Plus web site that it was too low of a version. IIcan see more sites > doing this. I wonder if debian will change there policy on Web > Browsers regarding what is stable or not to be more inlined with Web > Browser release strategy? > > Either way Chrome still worked :) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From voidpointer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 20:07:24 2011 From: voidpointer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Nicolaides) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 16:07:24 -0400 Subject: Mint Debian In-Reply-To: <4E63D704.1070305-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110903013436.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110903161900.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E63D704.1070305@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, and that was actually what I used to do when i used Firefox on Debian. However I found that the newer binaries from the Firefox website were compiled against GTK libs that were newer than what was in stable. Using the repos you don't have to worry about that problem. Cheers, Jason On 4 September 2011 15:52, Alex Volkov wrote: > ** > Or you can just go to mozilla site, download firefox and extract tar.gz > into your /opt/ directory. > > > On 04/09/11 03:04 PM, Jason Nicolaides wrote: > > If you want to run more up to date versions of Firefox on Debian stable you > could always add in the Debian Mozilla Team's repos. > > http://mozilla.debian.net/ > > From the site you can select what you want, add the lines to your > sources.list and then apt-get your way to a newer browser. Keep in mind it > will be branded Iceweasel since they are Debian packages but all the Firefox > plugins should work. Not 100% sure though as I use Chromium on testing... > ;) > > Cheers, > Jason > > On 3 September 2011 13:33, Dave Germiquet wrote: > >> What I find frustrating with debian and stable, is that they only have >> Firefox Browser 3.5.14. >> >> With the new release policy of browsers (Releasing new ones all the >> time), some web sites complain that you have too old of a version of a >> browser ie. Google Plus. >> . >> I tried using Firefox on Debian Stable and it complained on the Google >> Plus web site that it was too low of a version. IIcan see more sites >> doing this. I wonder if debian will change there policy on Web >> Browsers regarding what is stable or not to be more inlined with Web >> Browser release strategy? >> >> Either way Chrome still worked :) >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 21:13:28 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 17:13:28 -0400 Subject: For any data recovery experts out there... In-Reply-To: <4E5DA4CA.2020802-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E5DA4CA.2020802@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4E63E9F8.7000407@rogers.com> Lance F. Squire wrote: > I know someone who has/had a lot of picture files on an 8M Nexxtech > usb flash drive. > > Unfortunately, when it is place in a Windows computer, it claims the > drive is uninitiated and wants to format it. > > Is there any hope of recovering the pictures? > (I'm guessing not... :( ) > What happens with a Linux box. Windows doesn't recognize Linux file systems, so if that drive has been formatted with etx3 etc., Windows will want to format it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 23:23:35 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 19:23:35 -0400 Subject: Problems with wireless In-Reply-To: <20110904031523.GS15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110904031523.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: root at debian64lap:/home/dave# iwconfig --version iwconfig Wireless-Tools version 30 Compatible with Wireless Extension v11 to v22. Kernel Currently compiled with Wireless Extension v22. root at debian64lap:/home/dave# uname -a Linux debian64lap 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Jun 14 09:42:28 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux Whats AP ? Access point? Draytek Router. I want to make sure its a linux driver problem or wireless card problem and not a router problem first. On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 10:45:24PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> I have a ?Intel Corporation Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (rev 35), on my >> Thinkpad X201 and I'm having a problem with wireless was wondering if >> one of you could give me tips on how to fix it. The wireless adapter >> seems to work fine on Windows, however when I'm using it on Linux >> after awhile the connection slows down until it completely dies. Is >> there a way to debug this? Also the last time it totally lost >> connection to my router where it couldn't see the router at all. >> Rebooting into windows showed the router was still broadcasting and I >> could connect to it. >> >> I am also wondering if its related to the N version of the wifi. How >> can I force this linux computer to connect with G instead of N to test >> out my theory? > > Which kernel version? > > Which iwl firmware version? > > Which AP? > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 23:25:07 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 19:25:07 -0400 Subject: Problems with wireless In-Reply-To: References: <20110904031523.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I'm using Debian Stable right now, if you think I should try testing or unstable, I can reinstall :) On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 7:23 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > root at debian64lap:/home/dave# iwconfig --version > iwconfig ?Wireless-Tools version 30 > ? ? ? ? ?Compatible with Wireless Extension v11 to v22. > > Kernel ? ?Currently compiled with Wireless Extension v22. > > root at debian64lap:/home/dave# uname -a > Linux debian64lap 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Jun 14 09:42:28 UTC 2011 > x86_64 GNU/Linux > > Whats AP ? Access point? > > Draytek Router. > > I want to make sure its a linux driver problem or wireless card > problem and not a router problem first. > > On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 10:45:24PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: >>> I have a ?Intel Corporation Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (rev 35), on my >>> Thinkpad X201 and I'm having a problem with wireless was wondering if >>> one of you could give me tips on how to fix it. The wireless adapter >>> seems to work fine on Windows, however when I'm using it on Linux >>> after awhile the connection slows down until it completely dies. Is >>> there a way to debug this? Also the last time it totally lost >>> connection to my router where it couldn't see the router at all. >>> Rebooting into windows showed the router was still broadcasting and I >>> could connect to it. >>> >>> I am also wondering if its related to the N version of the wifi. How >>> can I force this linux computer to connect with G instead of N to test >>> out my theory? >> >> Which kernel version? >> >> Which iwl firmware version? >> >> Which AP? >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else > > Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As > it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. > Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being > intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all > electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's > up to you to protect that right. > > * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: > * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event > -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version > ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp > ?? for business implementation. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dave Germiquet > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 23:30:01 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 19:30:01 -0400 Subject: Problems with wireless In-Reply-To: References: <20110904031523.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E6409F9.2030505@gmail.com> Try installing linux 3.0.1 kernel from testing see if that fixes it, I've got 6205 and it works flawlessly. On 04/09/11 07:25 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I'm using Debian Stable right now, if you think I should try testing > or unstable, I can reinstall :) > > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 7:23 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> root at debian64lap:/home/dave# iwconfig --version >> iwconfig Wireless-Tools version 30 >> Compatible with Wireless Extension v11 to v22. >> >> Kernel Currently compiled with Wireless Extension v22. >> >> root at debian64lap:/home/dave# uname -a >> Linux debian64lap 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Jun 14 09:42:28 UTC 2011 >> x86_64 GNU/Linux >> >> Whats AP ? Access point? >> >> Draytek Router. >> >> I want to make sure its a linux driver problem or wireless card >> problem and not a router problem first. >> >> On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Lennart Sorensen >> wrote: >>> On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 10:45:24PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: >>>> I have a Intel Corporation Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (rev 35), on my >>>> Thinkpad X201 and I'm having a problem with wireless was wondering if >>>> one of you could give me tips on how to fix it. The wireless adapter >>>> seems to work fine on Windows, however when I'm using it on Linux >>>> after awhile the connection slows down until it completely dies. Is >>>> there a way to debug this? Also the last time it totally lost >>>> connection to my router where it couldn't see the router at all. >>>> Rebooting into windows showed the router was still broadcasting and I >>>> could connect to it. >>>> >>>> I am also wondering if its related to the N version of the wifi. How >>>> can I force this linux computer to connect with G instead of N to test >>>> out my theory? >>> Which kernel version? >>> >>> Which iwl firmware version? >>> >>> Which AP? >>> >>> -- >>> Len Sorensen >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else >> >> Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As >> it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. >> Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being >> intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all >> electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's >> up to you to protect that right. >> >> * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: >> * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event >> -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version >> or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp >> for business implementation. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Dave Germiquet >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 23:33:59 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 19:33:59 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? Message-ID: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> Twice today I've had mysterious lockups on a computer that has generally run pretty well. I outfitted it with a new gigabit ethernet card that uses the e1000 driver, and set it up yesterday. This morning I found it locked up completely; the last log entries were a MARK around 1:00am (figures). No other clues. Hmm. I went to the office where the computer is installed, and sure enough, couldn't get a console. A reboot seemed to cure the problem. Except that it didn't. This afternoon I was updating the system via ssh when I noticed that it was running very slow. I managed to ssh in from another computer (while the compilation was running/frozen), and found that, of all things, syslog-ng was using 98% of the CPU according to top. I tried to kill it, but it would not respond to sudo /etc/init.d/syslog-ng stop (or restart); I tried killing it via its pid but no go there, either. A few minutes later the ssh connection was lost entirely. Must be something in syslog-ng, I thought. So I went back to the office where the computer is located, and upon checking the logs this time I found some record of a kernel oops. In each case there was no sign of the trigger, but the kernel module that seems implicated was e1000. All this under 3.0.3. Could a kernel oops cause syslog-ng to go haywire? I can replace the ethernet card easily enough, but I don't know whether I'm barking up the wrong tree and should instead be looking at problems with syslog-ng instead. Any ideas/suggestions/advice would be welcome. The system runs gentoo, and is an old Athlon64. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 23:43:19 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 19:43:19 -0400 Subject: For any data recovery experts out there... In-Reply-To: <4E63E9F8.7000407-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E5DA4CA.2020802@alteeve.com> <4E63E9F8.7000407@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4E640D17.9040302@ve3syb.ca> Lance F. Squire wrote: > I know someone who has/had a lot of picture files on an 8M Nexxtech usb > flash drive. > > Unfortunately, when it is place in a Windows computer, it claims the drive > is uninitiated and wants to format it. First thing that comes to mind is to make sure the Windows computer supports 8M flash drives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 4 23:53:00 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 16:53:00 -0700 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> Message-ID: Perhaps the "oops" is blasting out log info somewhere else and tying up syslog. Remote or local lodging for everything? On Sep 4, 2011 4:34 PM, "Peter King" wrote: > Twice today I've had mysterious lockups on a computer that has generally > run pretty well. I outfitted it with a new gigabit ethernet card that uses > the e1000 driver, and set it up yesterday. This morning I found it locked > up completely; the last log entries were a MARK around 1:00am (figures). No > other clues. Hmm. I went to the office where the computer is installed, and > sure enough, couldn't get a console. A reboot seemed to cure the problem. > > Except that it didn't. This afternoon I was updating the system via ssh when > I noticed that it was running very slow. I managed to ssh in from another > computer (while the compilation was running/frozen), and found that, of all > things, syslog-ng was using 98% of the CPU according to top. I tried to kill > it, but it would not respond to sudo /etc/init.d/syslog-ng stop (or restart); > I tried killing it via its pid but no go there, either. A few minutes later > the ssh connection was lost entirely. > > Must be something in syslog-ng, I thought. So I went back to the office where > the computer is located, and upon checking the logs this time I found some > record of a kernel oops. In each case there was no sign of the trigger, but > the kernel module that seems implicated was e1000. All this under 3.0.3. > > Could a kernel oops cause syslog-ng to go haywire? I can replace the ethernet > card easily enough, but I don't know whether I'm barking up the wrong tree and > should instead be looking at problems with syslog-ng instead. > > Any ideas/suggestions/advice would be welcome. The system runs gentoo, and is > an old Athlon64. > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 00:15:57 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 20:15:57 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> Message-ID: Is there a dmesg that you can go back to? On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Peter King wrote: > Twice today I've had mysterious lockups on a computer that has generally > run pretty well. I outfitted it with a new gigabit ethernet card that uses > the e1000 driver, and set it up yesterday. This morning I found it locked > up completely; the last log entries were a MARK around 1:00am (figures). No > other clues. Hmm. I went to the office where the computer is installed, and > sure enough, couldn't get a console. A reboot seemed to cure the problem. > > Except that it didn't. This afternoon I was updating the system via ssh when > I noticed that it was running very slow. I managed to ssh in from another > computer (while the compilation was running/frozen), and found that, of all > things, syslog-ng was using 98% of the CPU according to top. I tried to kill > it, but it would not respond to sudo /etc/init.d/syslog-ng stop (or restart); > I tried killing it via its pid but no go there, either. A few minutes later > the ssh connection was lost entirely. > > Must be something in syslog-ng, I thought. So I went back to the office where > the computer is located, and upon checking the logs this time I found some > record of a kernel oops. In each case there was no sign of the trigger, but > the kernel module that seems implicated was e1000. All this under 3.0.3. > > Could a kernel oops cause syslog-ng to go haywire? I can replace the ethernet > card easily enough, but I don't know whether I'm barking up the wrong tree and > should instead be looking at problems with syslog-ng instead. > > Any ideas/suggestions/advice would be welcome. The system runs gentoo, and is > an old Athlon64. > > -- > Peter King ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON ?M5R 2M8 > ? ? ? CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC ?36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 00:49:24 2011 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 20:49:24 -0400 Subject: For any data recovery experts out there... In-Reply-To: <4E63E9F8.7000407-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E5DA4CA.2020802@alteeve.com> <4E63E9F8.7000407@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4E641C94.3060603@alteeve.com> James Knott wrote: > > What happens with a Linux box. Windows doesn't recognize Linux file > systems, so if that drive has been formatted with etx3 etc., Windows > will want to format it. Unknown, It was formated and filled on Windows systems. I never did get a chance to try it on a Linux system. The owner of the flash drive had also alerted her Co.'s tech guy. I figured I'd let him have a go first, and he succeeded in recovering the files. I must thank all who answered and the information that it was possible to retrieve the files did lift her spirits in the interim. :) Again thanks, Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 01:08:21 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 21:08:21 -0400 Subject: Problems with wireless In-Reply-To: References: <20110904031523.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110905010821.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 07:25:07PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I'm using Debian Stable right now, if you think I should try testing > or unstable, I can reinstall :) Well the 6300 is pretty new. It may be the driver in 2.6.32 is just a bit too raw. You could upgrade to testing and see if it helps. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 01:09:00 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 21:09:00 -0400 Subject: Problems with wireless In-Reply-To: <20110905010821.GV15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110904031523.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110905010821.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110905010900.GW15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 09:08:21PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 07:25:07PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > I'm using Debian Stable right now, if you think I should try testing > > or unstable, I can reinstall :) > > Well the 6300 is pretty new. It may be the driver in 2.6.32 is just a > bit too raw. > > You could upgrade to testing and see if it helps. Or just grab the kernel from squeeze-backports. I think they have 2.6.39 at the moment. Less troule than upgrading everything. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 01:12:17 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 21:12:17 -0400 Subject: Problems with wireless In-Reply-To: <20110905010900.GW15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110904031523.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110905010821.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110905010900.GW15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Alright thanks guys i'll give it a shot.I noticed its just 802.11N causing the problems. Not 802.11G On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 09:08:21PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 07:25:07PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> > I'm using Debian Stable right now, if you think I should try testing >> > or unstable, I can reinstall :) >> >> Well the 6300 is pretty new. ?It may be the driver in 2.6.32 is just a >> bit too raw. >> >> You could upgrade to testing and see if it helps. > > Or just grab the kernel from squeeze-backports. ?I think they have 2.6.39 > at the moment. ?Less troule than upgrading everything. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 01:20:11 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 21:20:11 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> Message-ID: <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> The logs aren't entirely useless, although there is no hint of a problem in dmesg. Here is the offending stretch in /var/log/messages. Everything before the first entry is entirely mundane, and then the trouble seems to start... (parts anonymized) Sep 4 15:10:50 theseus cron[14260]: (root) MAIL (mailed 94 bytes of output but got status 0x004e Sep 4 15:10:50 theseus ) Sep 4 15:14:07 theseus sshd[15230]: SSH: Server;Ltype: Version;Remote: XXXXXXXXXXXXX;Protocol: 2.0;Client: OpenSSH_5.8p1-hpn13v10 Sep 4 15:14:07 theseus sshd[15230]: Accepted publickey for XXXXXX from XXXXXXXXXXX port XXX ssh2 Sep 4 15:14:07 theseus sshd[15230]: pam_unix(sshd:session): session opened for user XXXXXXXX by (uid=0) Sep 4 15:14:14 theseus sudo: pking : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/home/XXXXXXXX ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/bin/emerge -avuNDt world Sep 4 15:14:14 theseus sudo: pam_unix(sudo:session): session opened for user root by XXXXXXX (uid=1000) Sep 4 15:20:01 theseus cron[31327]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 15:29:39 theseus -- MARK -- Sep 4 15:30:01 theseus cron[20414]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 15:40:01 theseus cron[13297]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: BUG: unable to handle kernel paging request at ffffdfff Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: IP: [] __destroy_inode+0x29/0x62 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: *pde = 015e3067 *pte = 00000000 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Oops: 0002 [#1] SMP Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Modules linked in: e1000 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Pid: 16344, comm: sed Not tainted 3.0.3-gentoo #6 System Manufacturer System Name/A7V8X-X Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EIP: 0060:[] EFLAGS: 00210286 CPU: 0 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EIP is at __destroy_inode+0x29/0x62 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EAX: ffffdfff EBX: db04bb88 ECX: 00000003 EDX: ffffdffe Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: ESI: db04bb88 EDI: 00000000 EBP: db04bb88 ESP: ef6e7f44 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: DS: 007b ES: 007b FS: 00d8 GS: 0033 SS: 0068 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Process sed (pid: 16344, ti=ef6e6000 task=f5465be0 task.ti=ef6e6000) Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Stack: Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: db04bb88 c109214a db3dfb14 c108f389 db3dfb14 00000000 db04bb88 c10911a2 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: f4e4e6c0 00000010 db04bb88 c10831e8 00000020 f4e4e6c8 db3dfb14 f5416620 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: f4e4e6c0 00000000 f542d660 ef6e6000 c108091d f542d660 00000000 00000000 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Call Trace: Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? destroy_inode+0x16/0x37 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? d_kill+0x93/0xa5 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? dput+0xf7/0x100 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? fput+0x198/0x1b0 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? filp_close+0x54/0x5a Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? sys_close+0x58/0x85 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? sysenter_do_call+0x12/0x26 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Code: ff ff 53 89 c3 e8 a6 b0 00 00 85 c0 74 04 0f 0b eb fe 89 d8 e8 eb 37 01 00 8b 83 44 01 00 00 8d 50 ff 83 fa fd 77 13 85 c0 74 0f <3e> ff 08 0f 94 c2 84 d2 74 05 e8 9a d3 fe ff 8b 83 48 01 00 00 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EIP: [] __destroy_inode+0x29/0x62 SS:ESP 0068:ef6e7f44 Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: CR2: 00000000ffffdfff Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: ---[ end trace 7c661efb7a158895 ]--- Sep 4 15:50:01 theseus cron[25131]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 15:59:01 theseus cron[25143]: (root) CMD (rm -f /var/spool/cron/lastrun/cron.hourly) Sep 4 16:00:01 theseus cron[25145]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 16:00:04 theseus sudo: pking : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/home/XXXXXXXX ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/sbin/dispatch-conf Sep 4 16:00:04 theseus sudo: pam_unix(sudo:session): session opened for user root by pking(uid=1000) Sep 4 16:00:18 theseus sudo: pking : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/home/XXXXXXXX ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/bin/revdep-rebuild Sep 4 16:00:18 theseus sudo: pam_unix(sudo:session): session opened for user root by pking(uid=1000) Sep 4 16:01:20 theseus sudo: pking : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/home/XXXXXXXX ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/bin/revdep-rebuild -i Sep 4 16:01:20 theseus sudo: pam_unix(sudo:session): session opened for user root by XXXXXXXX (uid=1000) Sep 4 16:10:01 theseus cron[32228]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 16:20:01 theseus cron[9252]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 16:29:39 theseus -- MARK -- Sep 4 16:30:01 theseus cron[25723]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 16:40:01 theseus cron[23464]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 16:50:01 theseus cron[24496]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 16:59:01 theseus cron[25750]: (root) CMD (rm -f /var/spool/cron/lastrun/cron.hourly) Sep 4 17:00:01 theseus cron[25864]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 17:10:01 theseus cron[27020]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 17:20:01 theseus cron[28024]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 17:29:39 theseus -- MARK -- Sep 4 17:30:01 theseus cron[29532]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 17:40:01 theseus cron[18520]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at (null) Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: IP: [] 0xf564c0bf Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: *pde = 00000000 Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Oops: 0002 [#2] SMP Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Modules linked in: e1000 Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Pid: 17180, comm: emerge Tainted: G D 3.0.3-gentoo #6 System Manufacturer System Name/A7V8X-X Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EIP: 0060:[] EFLAGS: 00210256 CPU: 0 Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EIP is at 0xf564c0c0 Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EAX: 00000000 EBX: 0000013e ECX: f564c390 EDX: 00200286 ...and then silence. The machine has crashed and required a reboot at this point. Looks to me like there is a problem with a "kernel paging request" in SMP #1, leading to the first oops at 15:44. Then, amazingly, it chugs along more or less well until 17:42, when there is a "kernel NULL pointer dereference" in SMP #2, which brings the whole thing down. I can't get a sense from that whether it's the modules linked in (namely e1000), or syslog-ng, or something else. Anyone? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 01:45:11 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 21:45:11 -0400 Subject: Problems with wireless In-Reply-To: References: <20110904031523.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110905010821.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110905010900.GW15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Thanks Lennart, I think the new kernel is working now with my wifi card.We'll see. On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Alright thanks guys i'll give it a shot.I noticed its just 802.11N > causing the problems. Not 802.11G > > On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 09:08:21PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 07:25:07PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: >>> > I'm using Debian Stable right now, if you think I should try testing >>> > or unstable, I can reinstall :) >>> >>> Well the 6300 is pretty new. ?It may be the driver in 2.6.32 is just a >>> bit too raw. >>> >>> You could upgrade to testing and see if it helps. >> >> Or just grab the kernel from squeeze-backports. ?I think they have 2.6.39 >> at the moment. ?Less troule than upgrading everything. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else > > Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As > it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. > Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being > intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all > electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's > up to you to protect that right. > > * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: > * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event > -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version > ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp > ?? for business implementation. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dave Germiquet > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 01:57:07 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 21:57:07 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> Message-ID: <20110905015707.GX15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 09:20:11PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > The logs aren't entirely useless, although there is no hint of a problem > in dmesg. Here is the offending stretch in /var/log/messages. Everything > before the first entry is entirely mundane, and then the trouble seems to > start... (parts anonymized) > > Sep 4 15:10:50 theseus cron[14260]: (root) MAIL (mailed 94 bytes of output but got status 0x004e > Sep 4 15:10:50 theseus ) > Sep 4 15:14:07 theseus sshd[15230]: SSH: Server;Ltype: Version;Remote: XXXXXXXXXXXXX;Protocol: 2.0;Client: OpenSSH_5.8p1-hpn13v10 > Sep 4 15:14:07 theseus sshd[15230]: Accepted publickey for XXXXXX from XXXXXXXXXXX port XXX ssh2 > Sep 4 15:14:07 theseus sshd[15230]: pam_unix(sshd:session): session opened for user XXXXXXXX by (uid=0) > Sep 4 15:14:14 theseus sudo: pking : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/home/XXXXXXXX ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/bin/emerge -avuNDt world > Sep 4 15:14:14 theseus sudo: pam_unix(sudo:session): session opened for user root by XXXXXXX (uid=1000) > Sep 4 15:20:01 theseus cron[31327]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 15:29:39 theseus -- MARK -- > Sep 4 15:30:01 theseus cron[20414]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 15:40:01 theseus cron[13297]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: BUG: unable to handle kernel paging request at ffffdfff > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: IP: [] __destroy_inode+0x29/0x62 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: *pde = 015e3067 *pte = 00000000 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Oops: 0002 [#1] SMP > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Modules linked in: e1000 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Pid: 16344, comm: sed Not tainted 3.0.3-gentoo #6 System Manufacturer System Name/A7V8X-X > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EIP: 0060:[] EFLAGS: 00210286 CPU: 0 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EIP is at __destroy_inode+0x29/0x62 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EAX: ffffdfff EBX: db04bb88 ECX: 00000003 EDX: ffffdffe > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: ESI: db04bb88 EDI: 00000000 EBP: db04bb88 ESP: ef6e7f44 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: DS: 007b ES: 007b FS: 00d8 GS: 0033 SS: 0068 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Process sed (pid: 16344, ti=ef6e6000 task=f5465be0 task.ti=ef6e6000) > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Stack: > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: db04bb88 c109214a db3dfb14 c108f389 db3dfb14 00000000 db04bb88 c10911a2 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: f4e4e6c0 00000010 db04bb88 c10831e8 00000020 f4e4e6c8 db3dfb14 f5416620 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: f4e4e6c0 00000000 f542d660 ef6e6000 c108091d f542d660 00000000 00000000 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Call Trace: > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? destroy_inode+0x16/0x37 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? d_kill+0x93/0xa5 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? dput+0xf7/0x100 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? fput+0x198/0x1b0 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? filp_close+0x54/0x5a > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? sys_close+0x58/0x85 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? sysenter_do_call+0x12/0x26 So this was the interesting bit. Something called close on a file, which then caused an inode to be removed, and then the kernel blew up. Would have been nice if it had said what pid 16344 was. I thought it usually did. Maybe the kernel is missing some config for that. Strange how that Bug line above doesn't include a file and line number. Bug messages are supposed to do so. Perhaps this kernel compile is missing some of the rather useful debug features. > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Code: ff ff 53 89 c3 e8 a6 b0 00 00 85 c0 74 04 0f 0b eb fe 89 d8 e8 eb 37 01 00 8b 83 44 01 00 00 8d 50 ff 83 fa fd 77 13 85 c0 74 0f <3e> ff 08 0f 94 c2 84 d2 74 05 e8 9a d3 fe ff 8b 83 48 01 00 00 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EIP: [] __destroy_inode+0x29/0x62 SS:ESP 0068:ef6e7f44 > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: CR2: 00000000ffffdfff > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: ---[ end trace 7c661efb7a158895 ]--- > Sep 4 15:50:01 theseus cron[25131]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 15:59:01 theseus cron[25143]: (root) CMD (rm -f /var/spool/cron/lastrun/cron.hourly) > Sep 4 16:00:01 theseus cron[25145]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 16:00:04 theseus sudo: pking : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/home/XXXXXXXX ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/sbin/dispatch-conf > Sep 4 16:00:04 theseus sudo: pam_unix(sudo:session): session opened for user root by pking(uid=1000) > Sep 4 16:00:18 theseus sudo: pking : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/home/XXXXXXXX ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/bin/revdep-rebuild > Sep 4 16:00:18 theseus sudo: pam_unix(sudo:session): session opened for user root by pking(uid=1000) > Sep 4 16:01:20 theseus sudo: pking : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/home/XXXXXXXX ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/bin/revdep-rebuild -i > Sep 4 16:01:20 theseus sudo: pam_unix(sudo:session): session opened for user root by XXXXXXXX (uid=1000) > Sep 4 16:10:01 theseus cron[32228]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 16:20:01 theseus cron[9252]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 16:29:39 theseus -- MARK -- > Sep 4 16:30:01 theseus cron[25723]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 16:40:01 theseus cron[23464]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 16:50:01 theseus cron[24496]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 16:59:01 theseus cron[25750]: (root) CMD (rm -f /var/spool/cron/lastrun/cron.hourly) > Sep 4 17:00:01 theseus cron[25864]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 17:10:01 theseus cron[27020]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 17:20:01 theseus cron[28024]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 17:29:39 theseus -- MARK -- > Sep 4 17:30:01 theseus cron[29532]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 17:40:01 theseus cron[18520]: (root) CMD (test -x /usr/sbin/run-crons && /usr/sbin/run-crons ) > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at (null) > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: IP: [] 0xf564c0bf > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: *pde = 00000000 > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Oops: 0002 [#2] SMP > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Modules linked in: e1000 > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Pid: 17180, comm: emerge Tainted: G D 3.0.3-gentoo #6 System Manufacturer System Name/A7V8X-X > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EIP: 0060:[] EFLAGS: 00210256 CPU: 0 > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EIP is at 0xf564c0c0 > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EAX: 00000000 EBX: 0000013e ECX: f564c390 EDX: 00200286 This one strangely doesn't provide any useful info. > ...and then silence. The machine has crashed and required a reboot at this > point. Looks to me like there is a problem with a "kernel paging request" in > SMP #1, leading to the first oops at 15:44. Then, amazingly, it chugs along > more or less well until 17:42, when there is a "kernel NULL pointer dereference" > in SMP #2, which brings the whole thing down. > > I can't get a sense from that whether it's the modules linked in (namely e1000), > or syslog-ng, or something else. Anyone? SMP simply means symetric multi procesing, which pretty much all systems are these days. -- LEn Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 02:19:49 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 22:19:49 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110905015707.GX15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> <20110905015707.GX15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110905021949.GA8008@amber> On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 09:57:07PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Pid: 16344, comm: sed Not tainted 3.0.3-gentoo #6 System Manufacturer System Name/A7V8X-X > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EIP: 0060:[] EFLAGS: 00210286 CPU: 0 > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EIP is at __destroy_inode+0x29/0x62 > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EAX: ffffdfff EBX: db04bb88 ECX: 00000003 EDX: ffffdffe > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: ESI: db04bb88 EDI: 00000000 EBP: db04bb88 ESP: ef6e7f44 > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: DS: 007b ES: 007b FS: 00d8 GS: 0033 SS: 0068 > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Process sed (pid: 16344, ti=ef6e6000 task=f5465be0 task.ti=ef6e6000) > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Stack: > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: db04bb88 c109214a db3dfb14 c108f389 db3dfb14 00000000 db04bb88 c10911a2 > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: f4e4e6c0 00000010 db04bb88 c10831e8 00000020 f4e4e6c8 db3dfb14 f5416620 > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: f4e4e6c0 00000000 f542d660 ef6e6000 c108091d f542d660 00000000 00000000 > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Call Trace: > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? destroy_inode+0x16/0x37 > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? d_kill+0x93/0xa5 > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? dput+0xf7/0x100 > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? fput+0x198/0x1b0 > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? filp_close+0x54/0x5a > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? sys_close+0x58/0x85 > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? sysenter_do_call+0x12/0x26 > > So this was the interesting bit. Something called close on a file, > which then caused an inode to be removed, and then the kernel blew up. > > Would have been nice if it had said what pid 16344 was. I thought it > usually did. Maybe the kernel is missing some config for that. I take it, then, that it isn't sed (which is mentioned on the top line). It may well be that some debugging configuration is absent > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at (null) > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: IP: [] 0xf564c0bf > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: *pde = 00000000 > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Oops: 0002 [#2] SMP > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Modules linked in: e1000 > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Pid: 17180, comm: emerge Tainted: G D 3.0.3-gentoo #6 System Manufacturer System Name/A7V8X-X > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EIP: 0060:[] EFLAGS: 00210256 CPU: 0 > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EIP is at 0xf564c0c0 > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EAX: 00000000 EBX: 0000013e ECX: f564c390 EDX: 00200286 > > This one strangely doesn't provide any useful info. Again, I guess it isn't emerge, although I can attest that emerge was running at the time. > > ...and then silence. The machine has crashed and required a reboot at this > > point. Looks to me like there is a problem with a "kernel paging request" in > > SMP #1, leading to the first oops at 15:44. Then, amazingly, it chugs along > > more or less well until 17:42, when there is a "kernel NULL pointer dereference" > > in SMP #2, which brings the whole thing down. > > > > I can't get a sense from that whether it's the modules linked in (namely e1000), > > or syslog-ng, or something else. Anyone? > > SMP simply means symetric multi procesing, which pretty much all systems > are these days. I know about SMP, but I don't know why these are referenced to apparently different sources, since the processor is single-core. Perhaps because it's running make -j2. Well, now I'm less certain than ever where the problem lies. There were a few notes on kernel oopses and e1000, but mostly back in 2.4 days (although one in 2.6.26 IIRC). Puzzling. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 04:43:11 2011 From: jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jarl Stefansson) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 00:43:11 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110905021949.GA8008@amber> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> <20110905015707.GX15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110905021949.GA8008@amber> Message-ID: Looks to me like the first problem is at: BUG: unable to handle kernel paging request at ffffdfff This would indicate a memory issue, I would open the box and make sure all of your RAM modules are still properly seated and run a full memtest if you can. Jarl On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Peter King wrote: > On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 09:57:07PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Pid: 16344, comm: sed Not tainted 3.0.3-gentoo #6 System Manufacturer System Name/A7V8X-X >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EIP: 0060:[] EFLAGS: 00210286 CPU: 0 >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EIP is at __destroy_inode+0x29/0x62 >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EAX: ffffdfff EBX: db04bb88 ECX: 00000003 EDX: ffffdffe >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: ESI: db04bb88 EDI: 00000000 EBP: db04bb88 ESP: ef6e7f44 >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: DS: 007b ES: 007b FS: 00d8 GS: 0033 SS: 0068 >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Process sed (pid: 16344, ti=ef6e6000 task=f5465be0 task.ti=ef6e6000) >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Stack: >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: db04bb88 c109214a db3dfb14 c108f389 db3dfb14 00000000 db04bb88 c10911a2 >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: f4e4e6c0 00000010 db04bb88 c10831e8 00000020 f4e4e6c8 db3dfb14 f5416620 >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: f4e4e6c0 00000000 f542d660 ef6e6000 c108091d f542d660 00000000 00000000 >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Call Trace: >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? destroy_inode+0x16/0x37 >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? d_kill+0x93/0xa5 >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? dput+0xf7/0x100 >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? fput+0x198/0x1b0 >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? filp_close+0x54/0x5a >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? sys_close+0x58/0x85 >> > Sep ?4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? sysenter_do_call+0x12/0x26 >> >> So this was the interesting bit. ?Something called close on a file, >> which then caused an inode to be removed, and then the kernel blew up. >> >> Would have been nice if it had said what pid 16344 was. ?I thought it >> usually did. ?Maybe the kernel is missing some config for that. > > I take it, then, that it isn't sed (which is mentioned on the top line). It may well be that some > debugging configuration is absent > >> > Sep ?4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at ? (null) >> > Sep ?4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: IP: [] 0xf564c0bf >> > Sep ?4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: *pde = 00000000 >> > Sep ?4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Oops: 0002 [#2] SMP >> > Sep ?4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Modules linked in: e1000 >> > Sep ?4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: >> > Sep ?4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Pid: 17180, comm: emerge Tainted: G ? ? ?D ? ? 3.0.3-gentoo #6 System Manufacturer System Name/A7V8X-X >> > Sep ?4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EIP: 0060:[] EFLAGS: 00210256 CPU: 0 >> > Sep ?4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EIP is at 0xf564c0c0 >> > Sep ?4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EAX: 00000000 EBX: 0000013e ECX: f564c390 EDX: 00200286 >> >> This one strangely doesn't provide any useful info. > > Again, I guess it isn't emerge, although I can attest that emerge was running at the > time. > >> > ...and then silence. The machine has crashed and required a reboot at this >> > point. Looks to me like there is a problem with a "kernel paging request" in >> > SMP #1, leading to the first oops at 15:44. Then, amazingly, it chugs along >> > more or less well until 17:42, when there is a "kernel NULL pointer dereference" >> > in SMP #2, which brings the whole thing down. >> > >> > I can't get a sense from that whether it's the modules linked in (namely e1000), >> > or syslog-ng, or something else. Anyone? >> >> SMP simply means symetric multi procesing, which pretty much all systems >> are these days. > > I know about SMP, but I don't know why these are referenced to apparently different > sources, since the processor is single-core. Perhaps because it's running make -j2. > > Well, now I'm less certain than ever where the problem lies. There were a few notes > on kernel oopses and e1000, but mostly back in 2.4 days (although one in 2.6.26 IIRC). > Puzzling. > > -- > Peter King ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON ?M5R 2M8 > ? ? ? CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC ?36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -- Regards, Jarl Stefansson jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org +1-647-869-6908 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 13:39:02 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 09:39:02 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> Message-ID: <20110905133902.GA20590@watson-wilson.ca> Is the time in the logs set to GMT? My Athlon Opteron also froze yesterday. I don't think it's ever happened before. It happened at 1245 EDT. I am not using syslog-ng. Any freeze is often related to faulty hardware. You could try running another kernel if you suspect it. Sincerely, -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 15:22:52 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 11:22:52 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110905133902.GA20590-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> <20110905133902.GA20590@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20110905152252.GA10019@amber> On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 09:39:02AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > Is the time in the logs set to GMT? My Athlon Opteron also froze > yesterday. I don't think it's ever happened before. It happened at > 1245 EDT. I am not using syslog-ng. > > Any freeze is often related to faulty hardware. You could try running > another kernel if you suspect it. My logs are in local time, so it must be a coincidence. Quite the coincidence, though. I have made some hardware changes recently: (a) adding memory, (b) putting in a gigabit NIC. Both are suspect. The first memory sticks I bought, from Canada Computers, were bad -- running memtest overnight gave something like 71000 errors. The next sticks passed memtest, though. I had trouble getting the ethernet card configured, because I hadn't noticed that udev decided to rename it eth4 (why?), but that's my fault. There are reports of lockups/freezes with the e1000 driver. But there seem to be such reports with most gigabit NICs, apart from those made by Intel, which were not in stock at three stores I checked. I compiled a new kernel (3.0.4) with the e1000 driver compiled in, and ran through the syslog-ng configuration along with logrotate. Now I'm waiting to see what will happen. The past two times took about, ohhh, 18 hours from boot, so we'll come around to that this afternoon. If it goes bad, then I run memtest again, and if that passes I switch out the ethernet card. If it doesn't go bad I'll find some other hardware to play with instead ;-) -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 16:09:36 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:09:36 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110905021949.GA8008@amber> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> <20110905015707.GX15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110905021949.GA8008@amber> Message-ID: <20110905160936.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 10:19:49PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > On Sun, Sep 04, 2011 at 09:57:07PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Pid: 16344, comm: sed Not tainted 3.0.3-gentoo #6 System Manufacturer System Name/A7V8X-X > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EIP: 0060:[] EFLAGS: 00210286 CPU: 0 > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EIP is at __destroy_inode+0x29/0x62 > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: EAX: ffffdfff EBX: db04bb88 ECX: 00000003 EDX: ffffdffe > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: ESI: db04bb88 EDI: 00000000 EBP: db04bb88 ESP: ef6e7f44 > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: DS: 007b ES: 007b FS: 00d8 GS: 0033 SS: 0068 > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Process sed (pid: 16344, ti=ef6e6000 task=f5465be0 task.ti=ef6e6000) Oh there it is. sed is the process. How strange. Now of course it is entirely possible the kernel was doing some filesystem writes in the background flushing out the cache and sed just happened to be the active process when things went wrong. It might not be involved. > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Stack: > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: db04bb88 c109214a db3dfb14 c108f389 db3dfb14 00000000 db04bb88 c10911a2 > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: f4e4e6c0 00000010 db04bb88 c10831e8 00000020 f4e4e6c8 db3dfb14 f5416620 > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: f4e4e6c0 00000000 f542d660 ef6e6000 c108091d f542d660 00000000 00000000 > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: Call Trace: > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? destroy_inode+0x16/0x37 > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? d_kill+0x93/0xa5 > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? dput+0xf7/0x100 > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? fput+0x198/0x1b0 > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? filp_close+0x54/0x5a > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? sys_close+0x58/0x85 > > > Sep 4 15:44:00 theseus kernel: [] ? sysenter_do_call+0x12/0x26 > > > > So this was the interesting bit. Something called close on a file, > > which then caused an inode to be removed, and then the kernel blew up. > > > > Would have been nice if it had said what pid 16344 was. I thought it > > usually did. Maybe the kernel is missing some config for that. > > I take it, then, that it isn't sed (which is mentioned on the top line). It may well be that some > debugging configuration is absent Sure looks that way. Usually 'BUG' outputs that I have seen include line numbers and such which makes it much easier to track down. Of course that is a kernel config option so it appears to be disabled on this kernel. CONFIG_DEBUG_BUGVERBOSE=y is very useful. > > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at (null) > > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: IP: [] 0xf564c0bf > > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: *pde = 00000000 > > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Oops: 0002 [#2] SMP > > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Modules linked in: e1000 > > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: > > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: Pid: 17180, comm: emerge Tainted: G D 3.0.3-gentoo #6 System Manufacturer System Name/A7V8X-X > > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EIP: 0060:[] EFLAGS: 00210256 CPU: 0 > > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EIP is at 0xf564c0c0 > > > Sep 4 17:42:35 theseus kernel: EAX: 00000000 EBX: 0000013e ECX: f564c390 EDX: 00200286 > > > > This one strangely doesn't provide any useful info. > > Again, I guess it isn't emerge, although I can attest that emerge was running at the > time. > > > > ...and then silence. The machine has crashed and required a reboot at this > > > point. Looks to me like there is a problem with a "kernel paging request" in > > > SMP #1, leading to the first oops at 15:44. Then, amazingly, it chugs along > > > more or less well until 17:42, when there is a "kernel NULL pointer dereference" > > > in SMP #2, which brings the whole thing down. > > > > > > I can't get a sense from that whether it's the modules linked in (namely e1000), > > > or syslog-ng, or something else. Anyone? > > > > SMP simply means symetric multi procesing, which pretty much all systems > > are these days. > > I know about SMP, but I don't know why these are referenced to apparently different > sources, since the processor is single-core. Perhaps because it's running make -j2. > > Well, now I'm less certain than ever where the problem lies. There were a few notes > on kernel oopses and e1000, but mostly back in 2.4 days (although one in 2.6.26 IIRC). > Puzzling. This one does not look like a network related one. It very much looks filesystem related, although it could be a virtual filesystem one (like /proc or /sys). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 16:10:22 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:10:22 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> <20110905015707.GX15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110905021949.GA8008@amber> Message-ID: <20110905161022.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 12:43:11AM -0400, Jarl Stefansson wrote: > Looks to me like the first problem is at: > > BUG: unable to handle kernel paging request at ffffdfff > > This would indicate a memory issue, I would open the box and make sure > all of your RAM modules are still properly seated and run a full > memtest if you can. No it would indicate a bug. Some part of the code did something wrong, and passed a bad pointer. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 16:11:21 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:11:21 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110905152252.GA10019@amber> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> <20110905133902.GA20590@watson-wilson.ca> <20110905152252.GA10019@amber> Message-ID: <20110905161121.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 11:22:52AM -0400, Peter King wrote: > On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 09:39:02AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > > > Is the time in the logs set to GMT? My Athlon Opteron also froze > > yesterday. I don't think it's ever happened before. It happened at > > 1245 EDT. I am not using syslog-ng. > > > > Any freeze is often related to faulty hardware. You could try running > > another kernel if you suspect it. > > My logs are in local time, so it must be a coincidence. Quite the coincidence, > though. > > I have made some hardware changes recently: (a) adding memory, (b) putting in > a gigabit NIC. Both are suspect. The first memory sticks I bought, from Canada > Computers, were bad -- running memtest overnight gave something like 71000 errors. > The next sticks passed memtest, though. I had trouble getting the ethernet card > configured, because I hadn't noticed that udev decided to rename it eth4 (why?), > but that's my fault. There are reports of lockups/freezes with the e1000 driver. > But there seem to be such reports with most gigabit NICs, apart from those made > by Intel, which were not in stock at three stores I checked. Because of /etc/udev/rules.d/something persistent network. > I compiled a new kernel (3.0.4) with the e1000 driver compiled in, and ran through > the syslog-ng configuration along with logrotate. Now I'm waiting to see what will > happen. The past two times took about, ohhh, 18 hours from boot, so we'll come > around to that this afternoon. If it goes bad, then I run memtest again, and if > that passes I switch out the ethernet card. > > If it doesn't go bad I'll find some other hardware to play with instead ;-) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 16:59:08 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 12:59:08 -0400 Subject: What the heck happend with LibreOffice on Debian Unstable? Message-ID: Update before last one had a bunch of new libreoffice packages, nothing came up in apt-listbugs so I let it run. However, when I try to run libreoffice I get: /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin: error while loading shared libraries: libsofficeapp.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory I thought there might have been some mess laying around, so I tried uninstalling libreoffice from Synaptic, and reinstalling. However, even trying to remove libreoffice is causing a cascade of changes like removing gconf2 and installing packages called libextcat and libgraphite. How does it make sense that removing libreoffice would require _installing_ new packages? The whole thing is a complete mess. Anyone else seeing this disaster? -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 5 18:36:05 2011 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 14:36:05 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone want back issues of WiReD? Message-ID: Hi folks, I'm purging some old magazines in advance of selling my house, and I have a few back issues of Wired I'd like to get rid of: 2.04-2.12 3.02-3.12 4.01-4.12 5.01-5.12 6.01-6.12 7.01-7.03, 7.05-7.07, 7.09-7.12 8.01-8.12 9.01-9.09, 9.11, 9.12 10.01-10.08,10.10-10.12 11.01, 11.03, 11.05 Scenarios 1.01 I'd prefer you pick them up (Pape/Mortimer), but I will deliver within the GTA, especially if you take them all. Alex ps This was posted on the Toronto Perlmongers list yesterday -- and I got no response. Tomorrow I post on the Toronto Freecycle list, and after that, they go in the Blue Bin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 00:29:25 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 20:29:25 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110905161121.GA15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> <20110905133902.GA20590@watson-wilson.ca> <20110905152252.GA10019@amber> <20110905161121.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110906002925.GA11563@amber> Culprit found! (I think.) After some more testing and lockups, I swapped out the ethernet card. It then rebooted, but crashed under heavy load. Upon the reboot, well, lo and behold, this showed up in dmesg: Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Initializing CPU#0 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Pid: 0, comm: swapper Not tainted 3.0.4-gentoo #1 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Call Trace: Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? bad_page+0x9c/0xb1 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? free_pages_prepare+0x55/0xc5 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? __free_pages_ok+0x13/0x73 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? free_all_memory_core_early+0xb9/0x108 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? mem_init+0x23/0x218 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? start_kernel+0x136/0x28e Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? kernel_init+0xf2/0xf2 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Disabling lock debugging due to kernel taint Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Pid: 0, comm: swapper Tainted: G B 3.0.4-gentoo #1 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Call Trace: Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? bad_page+0x9c/0xb1 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? free_pages_prepare+0x55/0xc5 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? __free_pages_ok+0x13/0x73 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? free_all_memory_core_early+0xb9/0x108 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? mem_init+0x23/0x218 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? start_kernel+0x136/0x28e Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? kernel_init+0xf2/0xf2 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Pid: 0, comm: swapper Tainted: G B 3.0.4-gentoo #1 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Call Trace: Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? bad_page+0x9c/0xb1 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? free_pages_prepare+0x55/0xc5 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? __free_pages_ok+0x13/0x73 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? free_all_memory_core_early+0xb9/0x108 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? mem_init+0x23/0x218 Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? start_kernel+0x136/0x28e Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? kernel_init+0xf2/0xf2 ... and so on, for some 45 repetitions, before the kernel declares that it's initializing HighMem. So I think that nails it down: bad memory sticks. Back to Canada Computers. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 00:57:20 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 20:57:20 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone want back issues of WiReD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When I stuff like this, interesting but surplus to me need I will take it to a GTALug meeting and offer it there. Normally I come home empty handed :-) . Colin. On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm purging some old magazines in advance of selling my house, and I > have a few back issues of Wired I'd like to get rid of: > > 2.04-2.12 > 3.02-3.12 > 4.01-4.12 > 5.01-5.12 > 6.01-6.12 > 7.01-7.03, 7.05-7.07, 7.09-7.12 > 8.01-8.12 > 9.01-9.09, 9.11, 9.12 > 10.01-10.08,10.10-10.12 > 11.01, 11.03, 11.05 > Scenarios 1.01 > > I'd prefer you pick them up (Pape/Mortimer), but I will deliver within > the GTA, especially if you take them all. > > Alex > > ps This was posted on the Toronto Perlmongers list yesterday -- and I > got no response. Tomorrow I post on the Toronto Freecycle list, and > after that, they go in the Blue Bin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 01:12:23 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 21:12:23 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110906002925.GA11563@amber> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> <20110905133902.GA20590@watson-wilson.ca> <20110905152252.GA10019@amber> <20110905161121.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110906002925.GA11563@amber> Message-ID: <20110906011223.GB15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 08:29:25PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > Culprit found! (I think.) > > After some more testing and lockups, I swapped out the ethernet card. It then > rebooted, but crashed under heavy load. Upon the reboot, well, lo and behold, > this showed up in dmesg: > > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Initializing CPU#0 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Pid: 0, comm: swapper Not tainted 3.0.4-gentoo #1 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Call Trace: > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? bad_page+0x9c/0xb1 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? free_pages_prepare+0x55/0xc5 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? __free_pages_ok+0x13/0x73 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? free_all_memory_core_early+0xb9/0x108 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? mem_init+0x23/0x218 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? start_kernel+0x136/0x28e > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? kernel_init+0xf2/0xf2 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Disabling lock debugging due to kernel taint > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Pid: 0, comm: swapper Tainted: G B 3.0.4-gentoo #1 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Call Trace: > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? bad_page+0x9c/0xb1 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? free_pages_prepare+0x55/0xc5 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? __free_pages_ok+0x13/0x73 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? free_all_memory_core_early+0xb9/0x108 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? mem_init+0x23/0x218 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? start_kernel+0x136/0x28e > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? kernel_init+0xf2/0xf2 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Pid: 0, comm: swapper Tainted: G B 3.0.4-gentoo #1 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: Call Trace: > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? bad_page+0x9c/0xb1 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? free_pages_prepare+0x55/0xc5 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? __free_pages_ok+0x13/0x73 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? free_all_memory_core_early+0xb9/0x108 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? mem_init+0x23/0x218 > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? start_kernel+0x136/0x28e > Sep 5 18:35:54 theseus kernel: [] ? kernel_init+0xf2/0xf2 > > ... and so on, for some 45 repetitions, before the kernel declares that it's > initializing HighMem. So I think that nails it down: bad memory sticks. Back > to Canada Computers. Not buying memory on the motherboard compatibility list? What kind of motherboard and what kind of ram? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 05:06:05 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 01:06:05 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110906011223.GB15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> <20110905133902.GA20590@watson-wilson.ca> <20110905152252.GA10019@amber> <20110905161121.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110906002925.GA11563@amber> <20110906011223.GB15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110906050605.GA12192@amber> On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 09:12:23PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > initializing HighMem. So I think that nails it down: bad memory sticks. Back > > to Canada Computers. > > Not buying memory on the motherboard compatibility list? > > What kind of motherboard and what kind of ram? o Motherboard: ASUS A7V8X-X o RAM: 2 x 1GB Corsair DDR 333MHz DIMM (as per the motherboard manual) At first I tried 1GB ADATA Premier Series DDR 333 MHz DIMM, but that stick failed memtest pretty spectacularly, which is why I switched brands. I didn't go with 400MHz since only some brands are approved for that motherboard by ASUS (or only some when the manual was printed). On this count I plead not guilty. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 15:17:15 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 11:17:15 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> Message-ID: <20110906151715.GA14045@amber> In the end there seem to have been two culprits, each hardware-related. On the one hand, there seems to have been some bad memory, as shown by the page faults even on boot via dmesg. I pulled the new memory I had installed, put back in the old stick that had been in there, and so far no memory problems. The other culprit seems to have been the gigabyte ethernet cards -- I guess the system is too old to handle that speed, because with two different cards I kept getting lockups in ssh (or rsync over ssh). Again, I pulled all the gigabyte cards and reverted to the on-board 100Mbit ethernet controller. So far no lockups. No silk purse out of this computer sow's ear, I suppose. Thanks for the help and suggestions. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 16:52:23 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 12:52:23 -0400 Subject: OT: Python Courses Message-ID: Hello Fellow Tlugers, Can anyone suggest a good python course? Are community colleges good for these courses or would you suggest something else? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 17:00:32 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 13:00:32 -0400 Subject: OT: Python Courses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110906170032.GA11174@watson-wilson.ca> I would pickup a copy of OReilly's Learning Python and self study. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 12:17:19 2011 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 08:17:19 -0400 Subject: What the heck happend with LibreOffice on Debian Unstable? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1315311439.4506.1.camel@cougar-natty> Thomas, I have been following dev and discuss mail lists for LibreOffice, and I have not noticed your problem mentioned. If Debian support (I am not familiar with it) is not helpful, you might ask on the discuss list at The Document Foundation, discuss-DL+rna6QvqRRQ0oMI7lyI3G1qET/BF4J at public.gmane.org; IIRC you do not have to be subscribed to the the list, but it might be easiest: discuss+subscribe-DL+rna6QvqRRQ0oMI7lyIxlBQnHKHwzh at public.gmane.org This suggestion is a bit remote from your problem, but your question has gone unaddressed since yesterday, so I am throwing it out. HTH, Terry. On Mon, 2011-09-05 at 12:59 -0400, Thomas Milne wrote, under the subject heading "What the heck happend with LibreOffice on Debian Unstable?": > Update before last one had a bunch of new libreoffice packages, nothing came > up in apt-listbugs so I let it run. However, when I try to run libreoffice I > get: > > /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin: error while loading shared > libraries: libsofficeapp.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or > directory > > I thought there might have been some mess laying around, so I tried > uninstalling libreoffice from Synaptic, and reinstalling. However, even > trying to remove libreoffice is causing a cascade of changes like removing > gconf2 and installing packages called libextcat and libgraphite. How does it > make sense that removing libreoffice would require _installing_ new > packages? The whole thing is a complete mess. Anyone else seeing this > disaster? > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 17:07:43 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 13:07:43 -0400 Subject: OT: Python Courses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I heard good things about PyCamp Toronto but that usually in June. On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hello Fellow Tlugers, > > Can anyone suggest a good python course? > > Are community colleges good for these courses or would you suggest > something else? > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else > > Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As > it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. > Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being > intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all > electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's > up to you to protect that right. > > * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: > * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event > -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version > ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp > ?? for business implementation. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dave Germiquet > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 17:09:40 2011 From: jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jarl Stefansson) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 13:09:40 -0400 Subject: OT: Python Courses In-Reply-To: <20110906170032.GA11174-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20110906170032.GA11174@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: I would recommend learning python by using VPython http://vpython.org/ , it's the most fun way I can think of to learn a new programming language and when things are fun you tend to learn more and faster. Jarl On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > I would pickup a copy of OReilly's Learning Python and self study. > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Regards, Jarl Stefansson jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org +1-647-869-6908 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 17:40:42 2011 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 13:40:42 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion on making recuirters part of your LinkedIn network? Message-ID: Hi folks, I'm currently looking for a job, and have been talking to a number of recruiters (some of whom may be on this list). I received a couple of invitations to connect from these recruiters, but I haven't added any of them to my LinkedIn network unless I've actually worked with them, because I prefer that my network consist of people that I know and/or people I've worked with. Thoughts? Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 17:46:01 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 13:46:01 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion on making recuirters part of your LinkedIn network? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110906174601.GA12077@watson-wilson.ca> By connecting you share you can each share your contacts. Who comes out ahead of that is debatable. I've never had a recruiter place me more than once so I don't see much value in maintaining a relationship. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 17:46:36 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 13:46:36 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion on making recuirters part of your LinkedIn network? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm currently looking for a job, and have been talking to a number of > recruiters (some of whom may be on this list). > > I received a couple of invitations to connect from these recruiters, > but I haven't added any of them to my LinkedIn network unless I've > actually worked with them, because I prefer that my network consist of > people that I know and/or people I've worked with. Thoughts? My preferences seem conformant with yours; I prefer for my network to consist of people I actually know. Recruiters seem keen on engaging in a massive degree of "promiscuousness", linking to as many people as they possibly can. Unfortunately, while this may increase the likelihood of them being able to be a little closer on the network, the germane linkages aren't actually useful references, so it doesn't help the way I think they imagine it does. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 17:59:27 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 13:59:27 -0400 Subject: OT: Python Courses In-Reply-To: References: <20110906170032.GA11174@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Jarl, On 6 September 2011 13:09, Jarl Stefansson wrote: > I would recommend learning python by using VPython http://vpython.org/ > , it's the most fun way I can think of to learn a new programming > language and when things are fun you tend to learn more and faster. > How is it offered? One week full day or 3 months, 3 hours a week? Like classes that are paced in the later format to allow for time to absorb the previously taught materials. William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 18:15:22 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 14:15:22 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion on making recuirters part of your LinkedIn network? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: With recruiters it depends on which part of the cycle the economy is in. Are they working to fill a natural demand, or are they working to create a demand by headhunting; raiding companies for talent and so forth. Several years ago I was headhunted by a recruiter to be a recruiter for an agency. It turns out he just wanted me smuggle his book out of the office before he jumped ship. He figured I could snarf his data from the database and sneak it out past the firewall. The book being his list of companies and prospects. The way he got me interested in the job initially was to show me the commission cheques from the agents in the office, which fluctuate in percentages of wages depending on which side of the cycle the market is currently placed. I did not help him to purloin the company's data, it was theirs even though he created it. Neither did I stay a recruiter. I'm good on the phone, I'm just not cut out for cubicle life. Recruiting can be lucrative if you have the patience to get past the gatekeepers and mine company data, or place your prospects, or snatch someone away from a job for one of your jobs, but its not what it appears to be. Although the vast majority of hiring by companies is outsourced, its often a closed cycle of shuffling employment contracts around with little regard for whether or not the candidate is suitable for the position or vice versa. I look at it like hiring an agent. You want someone who's going to get on the phone and make all the calls you can't or don't know how to make. Good luck with the job hunt. Russell On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm currently looking for a job, and have been talking to a number of > recruiters (some of whom may be on this list). > > I received a couple of invitations to connect from these recruiters, > but I haven't added any of them to my LinkedIn network unless I've > actually worked with them, because I prefer that my network consist of > people that I know and/or people I've worked with. Thoughts? > > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 18:15:45 2011 From: jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jarl Stefansson) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 14:15:45 -0400 Subject: OT: Python Courses In-Reply-To: References: <20110906170032.GA11174@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: It's not a class or a book or anything like that, it's just Python bundled with a graphics module which enables you to very easily create 3D graphics and some pretty cool things. The documentation and examples are pretty good and because the 3D module is so easy to use you can start doing fun things right away and then build on them to develop your python skills, imagine trying to build a solar system with gravity or building a double helix. There is also a visual totorial here: http://www.youtube.com/vpythonvideos Jarl On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 1:59 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Jarl, > > On 6 September 2011 13:09, Jarl Stefansson wrote: >> I would recommend learning python by using VPython http://vpython.org/ >> , it's the most fun way I can think of to learn a new programming >> language and when things are fun you tend to learn more and faster. >> > > How is it offered? ?One week full day or 3 months, 3 hours a week? > > Like classes that are paced in the later format to allow for time to > absorb the previously taught materials. > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Regards, Jarl Stefansson jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org +1-647-869-6908 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 18:39:53 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 14:39:53 -0400 Subject: GTALUG Meeting on 13th September, 2011 at 7:30pm Message-ID: # This Healthy Geek with Clifford Ilkay Clifford Ilkay got a (non life threatening) wake up call last year and started really paying attention to his health. He has gone from a paunchy, middle-aged geek to a lean, athletic guy who I'm told looks 10 years younger. He will be covering: * Why sitting for extended periods of time is killing you slowly. * The relationship between stress, diet, sleep cycles and belly fat. * How to start and more importantly, stay on a fitness regimen. * The best fitness regimen. * What metrics are important? * Why now is better than later. The longer you delay, the harder it is to reverse the damage you've already caused to your body. What is that damage? * How to stay motivated. ## Location Room GB248, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto 35 St George St Toronto, Ontario M5S 3G8 University of Toronto or ## Schedule **6:00pm**: There is a get together of GTALUGers at Pho 88 restaurant at 270 Spadina Ave. (south of Dundas) for food and socializing. **7:30pm**: Meeting and presentation. **9:00pm**: After each meeting a group of GTALUGers move to the GSU Pub for beed and more socializing. # Upcoming Meetings **12th October 2011**: Atomic OS with Scott Elcomb **8th November, 2011**: Open Source 3D Printing with Christopher Olah **13th December, 2011**: Smack Down -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 18:50:33 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 14:50:33 -0400 Subject: OT: Python Courses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6 September 2011 13:07, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > I heard good things about PyCamp Toronto but that usually in June. > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> Can anyone suggest a good python course? >> >> Are community colleges good for these courses or would you suggest >> something else? I attended PyCamp this past June. It's grueling, but quite good. And very cheap. Ironically, it's mostly helped my Java programming at work because I've done very little Python at home as I intended to. I came from Bash and Pascal so I've always thought you should check input types before you used them, but Python and Java prefer to throw exceptions and deal with that sort of thing after the fact. I'd never got my head around that until PyCamp. I'd recommend PyCamp if you can wait until June - but check with Chris Calloway that he'll be coming back to Toronto. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 18:56:48 2011 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:56:48 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion on making recuirters part of your LinkedIn network? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E666CF0.6030803@the-wire.com> On 11-09-06 01:46 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: [ ... ] > Recruiters seem keen on engaging in a massive degree of > "promiscuousness", linking to as many people as they possibly can. > > Unfortunately, while this may increase the likelihood of them being > able to be a little closer on the network, the germane linkages aren't > actually useful references, so it doesn't help the way I think they > imagine it does. From the bit of experience I had with hiring lately, I formulated the rule-of-one-thousand: there's an order-of-magnitude drop at each stage from the number of resumes received, to the number of resumes read and studied, to the number of interviews held, to the number of people hired. If I were a recruiter, I'd be thinking that for every 1000 linkages I can maybe get a placement. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 19:12:28 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 15:12:28 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110906151715.GA14045@amber> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110906151715.GA14045@amber> Message-ID: <20110906191228.GC15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 06, 2011 at 11:17:15AM -0400, Peter King wrote: > In the end there seem to have been two culprits, each hardware-related. On > the one hand, there seems to have been some bad memory, as shown by the page > faults even on boot via dmesg. I pulled the new memory I had installed, put > back in the old stick that had been in there, and so far no memory problems. How many sticks total did you put in there? > The other culprit seems to have been the gigabyte ethernet cards -- I guess > the system is too old to handle that speed, because with two different cards > I kept getting lockups in ssh (or rsync over ssh). Again, I pulled all the > gigabyte cards and reverted to the on-board 100Mbit ethernet controller. So > far no lockups. The A7N8X-E-DX from the same era has gigabit onboard and works fine with it. So it should not be too slow for gigabit. It may not be able to use the speed fully, but it is still fine to use and much better than 100Mbit. > No silk purse out of this computer sow's ear, I suppose. Thanks for the help > and suggestions. I suppose the motherboard could be getting flacky in general. -- Len SOrensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 19:17:12 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 15:17:12 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110906050605.GA12192@amber> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110905012011.GA7797@amber> <20110905133902.GA20590@watson-wilson.ca> <20110905152252.GA10019@amber> <20110905161121.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110906002925.GA11563@amber> <20110906011223.GB15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110906050605.GA12192@amber> Message-ID: <20110906191712.GD15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 06, 2011 at 01:06:05AM -0400, Peter King wrote: > On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 09:12:23PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > initializing HighMem. So I think that nails it down: bad memory sticks. Back > > > to Canada Computers. > > > > Not buying memory on the motherboard compatibility list? > > > > What kind of motherboard and what kind of ram? > > o Motherboard: ASUS A7V8X-X > > o RAM: 2 x 1GB Corsair DDR 333MHz DIMM (as per the motherboard manual) > > At first I tried 1GB ADATA Premier Series DDR 333 MHz DIMM, but that stick > failed memtest pretty spectacularly, which is why I switched brands. I didn't > go with 400MHz since only some brands are approved for that motherboard by > ASUS (or only some when the manual was printed). On this count I plead not > guilty. Hmm, DDR memory really tends to be pretty simply. Not like DDR2 and DDR3 where the details start to matter. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 20:11:39 2011 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 16:11:39 -0400 Subject: GTALUG Meeting on 13th September, 2011 at 7:30pm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wonder if we should eat something healthier than Pho before this speech and attend a yoga class after :) As someone who lost 50lbs and became, too, a healthy geek, I endorse this talk. Renata Rocha http://renata.org On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 14:39, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > # This Healthy Geek with Clifford Ilkay > > Clifford Ilkay got a (non life threatening) wake up call last year and > started really paying attention to his health. He has gone from a > paunchy, middle-aged geek to a lean, athletic guy who I'm told looks > 10 years younger. He will be covering: > > * Why sitting for extended periods of time is killing you slowly. > * The relationship between stress, diet, sleep cycles and belly fat. > * How to start and more importantly, stay on a fitness regimen. > * The best fitness regimen. > * What metrics are important? > * Why now is better than later. The longer you delay, the harder it is > to reverse the damage you've already caused to your body. What is that > damage? > * How to stay motivated. > > ## Location > > Room GB248, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto > 35 St George St > Toronto, Ontario M5S 3G8 > University of Toronto > > or > > ## Schedule > > **6:00pm**: There is a get together of GTALUGers at Pho 88 > restaurant at 270 Spadina Ave. (south of Dundas) for > food and socializing. > **7:30pm**: Meeting and presentation. > **9:00pm**: After each meeting a group of GTALUGers move to the GSU > Pub for beed and more socializing. > > > > # Upcoming Meetings > > **12th October 2011**: Atomic OS with Scott Elcomb > **8th November, 2011**: Open Source 3D Printing with Christopher Olah > **13th December, 2011**: Smack Down > > -- > Myles Braithwaite > http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 20:20:24 2011 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 16:20:24 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone want back issues of WiReD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, the back issues have been claimed. Alex On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm purging some old magazines in advance of selling my house, and I > have a few back issues of Wired I'd like to get rid of: > > 2.04-2.12 > 3.02-3.12 > 4.01-4.12 > 5.01-5.12 > 6.01-6.12 > 7.01-7.03, 7.05-7.07, 7.09-7.12 > 8.01-8.12 > 9.01-9.09, 9.11, 9.12 > 10.01-10.08,10.10-10.12 > 11.01, 11.03, 11.05 > Scenarios 1.01 > > I'd prefer you pick them up (Pape/Mortimer), but I will deliver within > the GTA, especially if you take them all. > > Alex > > ps This was posted on the Toronto Perlmongers list yesterday -- and I > got no response. Tomorrow I post on the Toronto Freecycle list, and > after that, they go in the Blue Bin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 20:40:11 2011 From: iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Isaac Connor) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 16:40:11 -0400 Subject: Where's the culprit? In-Reply-To: <20110906191228.GC15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110904233359.GA7486@amber> <20110906151715.GA14045@amber> <20110906191228.GC15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E66852B.70707@connortechnology.com> You may wish to look closely at the capacitors on the MB. I have had a lot of that era MB's go bad due to the caps leaking/expanding. I also have a pile of that model and similar MB's+CPU's lying around. Would be happy to find a ne home for them. Isaac On 11-09-06 03:12 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 06, 2011 at 11:17:15AM -0400, Peter King wrote: >> In the end there seem to have been two culprits, each hardware-related. On >> the one hand, there seems to have been some bad memory, as shown by the page >> faults even on boot via dmesg. I pulled the new memory I had installed, put >> back in the old stick that had been in there, and so far no memory problems. > How many sticks total did you put in there? > >> The other culprit seems to have been the gigabyte ethernet cards -- I guess >> the system is too old to handle that speed, because with two different cards >> I kept getting lockups in ssh (or rsync over ssh). Again, I pulled all the >> gigabyte cards and reverted to the on-board 100Mbit ethernet controller. So >> far no lockups. > The A7N8X-E-DX from the same era has gigabit onboard and works fine > with it. So it should not be too slow for gigabit. It may not be able > to use the speed fully, but it is still fine to use and much better > than 100Mbit. > >> No silk purse out of this computer sow's ear, I suppose. Thanks for the help >> and suggestions. > I suppose the motherboard could be getting flacky in general. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 21:05:38 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:05:38 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? Message-ID: Hey Guys, I was wondering what your opinion is for best open source license to use? I'm planning on open sourcing a simple program that I created for Android as I don't have time to spend alot of effort on it and quite alot of people are still using it. (So maybe someone might actually benefit from it.) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 21:20:47 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 17:20:47 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E668EAF.2070906@gmail.com> You have to decide on the primary key point: will you force derived works to be shared, or that people can take your work and put in proprietary. i.e. BSD/MIT/MSPL vs. GPL2/3 type decision. If you feel people deriving from it are not likely to be using it in proprietary, the GPL3 it, if it will be very useful in proprietary software, and your ok with that, then BSD/MIT it. If you go GPL then you have to decide on whether you want GPL2 (tivo happy), or GPL3(non tivo happy) :) -tl On 09/06/2011 05:05 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hey Guys, > > I was wondering what your opinion is for best open source license to > use? I'm planning on open sourcing a simple program that I created for > Android as I don't have time to spend alot of effort on it and quite > alot of people are still using it. (So maybe someone might actually > benefit from it.) > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 21:37:36 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:37:36 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I was wondering what your opinion is for best open source license to > use? I'm planning on open sourcing a simple program that I created for > Android as I don't have time to spend alot of effort on it and quite > alot of people are still using it. (So maybe someone might actually > benefit from it.) What's your purpose in releasing it? If you'd like to control how it continues to evolve pretty tightly, then the GPL is likely preferable. If you'd like it to get used, as widely as possible, as a sort of 'reference implementation' that people might use as a template for their own, perhaps rather different, Android app, then there is considerable merit to the BSD license. There's some room in between for other licenses, too. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 21:43:55 2011 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:43:55 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is also the option of dual licensing your software. Here is a bit about doing that... http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk/resources/duallicence2.xml > Hey Guys, > > I was wondering what your opinion is for best open source license to > use? I'm planning on open sourcing a simple program that I created for > Android as I don't have time to spend alot of effort on it and quite > alot of people are still using it. (So maybe someone might actually > benefit from it.) > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else > > Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As > it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. > Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being > intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all > electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's > up to you to protect that right. > > * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: > * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event > -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version > ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp > ?? for business implementation. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dave Germiquet > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 21:44:25 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:44:25 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is my main reasons for open sourcing it: 1. I want people to be able to improve it and I can see what they have improved so I also can learn. 2. I want people to see how I did things and learn how to program with android with it (sorta like how I googled to find how to code different things in android 3. My current users are having problems or want things updated. Wouldn't mind seeing them be able to still use this program. On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> I was wondering what your opinion is for best open source license to >> use? I'm planning on open sourcing a simple program that I created for >> Android as I don't have time to spend alot of effort on it and quite >> alot of people are still using it. (So maybe someone might actually >> benefit from it.) > > What's your purpose in releasing it? > > If you'd like to control how it continues to evolve pretty tightly, > then the GPL is likely preferable. > > If you'd like it to get used, as widely as possible, as a sort of > 'reference implementation' that people might use as a template for > their own, perhaps rather different, Android app, then there is > considerable merit to the BSD license. > > There's some room in between for other licenses, too. > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 22:00:21 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 18:00:21 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110906220021.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 06, 2011 at 05:44:25PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Here is my main reasons for open sourcing it: > > 1. I want people to be able to improve it and I can see what they have > improved so I also can learn. OK that rules out the BSD license. BSD license has no requirement what so ever that they give any changes to anyone. I don't know if any of the standard open source licenses require sharing anything with the author. GPL requires sharing with users you give binaries to, but no more. > 2. I want people to see how I did things and learn how to program with > android with it (sorta like how I googled to find how to code > different things in android > 3. My current users are having problems or want things updated. > Wouldn't mind seeing them be able to still use this program. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 22:08:21 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 18:08:21 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? In-Reply-To: <20110906220021.GE15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110906220021.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hi Lennart, Yes. Thats why I was thinking GPLv2 or GPLv3. So it'll be more advantageous for them to use it and improve. The don't have to give source code if they use it just for them. On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 06, 2011 at 05:44:25PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> Here is my main reasons for open sourcing it: >> >> 1. I want people to be able to improve it and I can see what they have >> improved so I also can learn. > > OK that rules out the BSD license. ?BSD license has no requirement what > so ever that they give any changes to anyone. > > I don't know if any of the standard open source licenses require sharing > anything with the author. ?GPL requires sharing with users you give > binaries to, but no more. > >> 2. I want people to see how I did things and learn how to program with >> android with it (sorta like how I googled to find how to code >> different things in android >> 3. My current users are having problems or want things updated. >> Wouldn't mind seeing them be able to still use this program. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 22:53:14 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 18:53:14 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink In-Reply-To: References: <20110822141040.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110822154249.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Scott Allen wrote: > On 22/08/2011, Andrej Marjan wrote: > > That said, since I can't find a replacement fan for the stock fan, I'll > have > > to swap the whole thing out. > > Sometimes you can remove the sticker from the hub of the fan to expose > the shaft and bearing, apply a few drop of oil in the hole, and then > cover the area where the sticker was with a small piece of electrical > tape. This may quiet the fan down for a while to give you more time to > search for a replacement or wait for a deal on a new heat sink > assembly. > Thank you for pointing out the blindingly obvious! Funny how mental blocks work - I've oiled my printer's scanner assembly several times, but it just didn't occur to me to oil a CPU fan. That said, alas there's nothing underneath the sticker but plastic -- one has to remove the fan (with shaft) from the motor to get at the bearings, which is very difficult to do. So the computer now has a new cooler and since the Intel fan isn't needed anymore, I forced the fan out of the motor, but I mauled the soft insulating collar around the magnet in the fan in the process. If it's possible to oil one of these suckers without damaging it, it takes more skill and/or better tools than I have. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 6 23:56:48 2011 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 19:56:48 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? In-Reply-To: <20110906220021.GE15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110906220021.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110906235648.GD17017@adb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I don't know if any of the standard open source licenses require sharing > anything with the author. GPL requires sharing with users you give > binaries to, but no more. There's apparently a bit of a history of distros not necessarily feeding patches back upstream, though upstreams being problematic about accepting them may in some cases have caused people to not bother. Even within the GPL, there's the question of code ownership. If you want to contribute to gcc, for example, they've historically wanted you to sign a piece of paper actually transferring ownership of your patches to the FSF. This enabled them to later relicense under GPLv3, for example. By contrast, the Linux kernel didn't do that, and getting innumerable contributors (or in some cases their legal heirs) who each own their own bits to agree to a license change now would be basically impossible, so it's stuck with GPLv2 for better or for worse. Partly license choice is a matter of goals. Do you want a widely understood license? Do you want to be able to sell commercial copies of your code later? Does it bother you if a distro packages your code with significant changes (see the "iceweasel" saga) from your version, or even if someone else forks your code? Do you just want your code to stay out in public without anyone dragging it back to their cave and going proprietary with it? -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 00:19:03 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 20:19:03 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? In-Reply-To: <20110906235648.GD17017-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20110906220021.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110906235648.GD17017@adb.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Anthony de Boer wrote: > Partly license choice is a matter of goals. ?Do you want a widely > understood license? ?Do you want to be able to sell commercial copies of > your code later? ?Does it bother you if a distro packages your code with > significant changes (see the "iceweasel" saga) from your version, or even > if someone else forks your code? ?Do you just want your code to stay out > in public without anyone dragging it back to their cave and going > proprietary with it? I'll put a bit of a "BSD advocacy" in, here... If someone decides to drag it off to their cave, does that actually terribly much matter? There's a significant cost to "dragging it back to their cave" and using it, as described here (from several perspectives): http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2011/09/01/the-cost-of-going-it-alone/ If you *demand* attribution, and *demand* to assert ongoing ownership, that's excellent reason for people to look at the code, say "it's not THAT interesting," and walk away. If your code influences others, then you really have accomplished something, whether you get formally attributed credit or not, and whether you get paid a cent or not. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 12:48:57 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 08:48:57 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Someone made a great flow chart to help with this question: . But based on the fact it is for Android I would suggest releasing it under the Apache Licence. I try to stick with the license that is popular in the ecosystem. On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hey Guys, > > I was wondering what your opinion is for best open source license to > use? I'm planning on open sourcing a simple program that I created for > Android as I don't have time to spend alot of effort on it and quite > alot of people are still using it. (So maybe someone might actually > benefit from it.) > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else > > Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As > it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. > Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being > intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all > electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's > up to you to protect that right. > > * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: > * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event > -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version > ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp > ?? for business implementation. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dave Germiquet > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 14:23:35 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 10:23:35 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? In-Reply-To: <20110906235648.GD17017-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20110906220021.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110906235648.GD17017@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20110907142335.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 06, 2011 at 07:56:48PM -0400, Anthony de Boer wrote: > There's apparently a bit of a history of distros not necessarily feeding > patches back upstream, though upstreams being problematic about accepting > them may in some cases have caused people to not bother. > > Even within the GPL, there's the question of code ownership. If you want > to contribute to gcc, for example, they've historically wanted you to > sign a piece of paper actually transferring ownership of your patches to > the FSF. This enabled them to later relicense under GPLv3, for example. > By contrast, the Linux kernel didn't do that, and getting innumerable > contributors (or in some cases their legal heirs) who each own their own > bits to agree to a license change now would be basically impossible, so > it's stuck with GPLv2 for better or for worse. True, yet another reason lots of people can't be bothered to contribute to FSF projects. Too much hassle. Not that it prevents anyone from taking the code and forking it and maintaining their own patches and distributing it. egcs for example. > Partly license choice is a matter of goals. Do you want a widely > understood license? Do you want to be able to sell commercial copies of > your code later? Does it bother you if a distro packages your code with > significant changes (see the "iceweasel" saga) from your version, or even > if someone else forks your code? Do you just want your code to stay out > in public without anyone dragging it back to their cave and going > proprietary with it? iceweasel makes sense though. Distributions do NOT want programs to try and upgrade themselves. That's what the distribution packaging system is for, so clearly that crap has to be removed from the code, or at least disabled as a build option. And in the case of firefox specifically, the license does not permit the use of the name or graphics if any of that is changed, which makes it not qualify as free software (if you can't change the icons, then you aren't free to modify the program, so it isn't free software). So as a result, the icons and name has to change to make it free software. Fortunately the source code itself is free, so it can be done with minimal changes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 15:48:02 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 11:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: security issue: DigiNotar root certificate hacked Message-ID: Much security on the internet is based on a tree of digital certificates. The roots (note plural) are wired-in to browsers. The DigiNotar root certificate has been hacked so it should not be trusted. Browser updates will revoke the DigiNotar certificate. If you cannot update your browser, you can revoke DigiNotar's root certificate by hand. I just did that on my desktop (which is running a Fedora that is no longer supported). In Firefox: Edit: Preferences: Advanced: Encryption: View Certificates: Scan down for DigiNotar. Click on the triangle next to it to open it up. Click on the only cert in it. Click Delete. I think that will do the job. Better would be a Certificate Revocation List (CRL) entry, but I don't know how to do that. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 15:58:45 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:58:45 -0400 Subject: security issue: DigiNotar root certificate hacked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E6794B5.4010901@gmail.com> On chrome, you locate the cert. , but Delete is not option, so "Edit", allows you to uncheck what this cert. verifies. Not sure why chrome doesn't allow one to just delete it. Thanks for the info. I wonder if this is the first time a root cert got hacked? -tl On 09/07/2011 11:48 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Much security on the internet is based on a tree of digital certificates. > The roots (note plural) are wired-in to browsers. > > The DigiNotar root certificate has been hacked so it should not be > trusted. > > Browser updates will revoke the DigiNotar certificate. > > If you cannot update your browser, you can revoke DigiNotar's root > certificate by hand. I just did that on my desktop (which is running a > Fedora that is no longer supported). > > In Firefox: Edit: Preferences: Advanced: Encryption: View Certificates: > Scan down for DigiNotar. > Click on the triangle next to it to open it up. > Click on the only cert in it. > Click Delete. > > I think that will do the job. Better would be a Certificate Revocation > List (CRL) entry, but I don't know how to do that. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 16:05:36 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:05:36 -0400 Subject: security issue: DigiNotar root certificate hacked In-Reply-To: <4E6794B5.4010901-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E6794B5.4010901@gmail.com> Message-ID: This is most unfortunate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DigiNotar " July 10, 2011, DigiNotar issued a certificatefor Google to unknown persons in Iranthat was used for a man-in-the-middle attack against GMail .[6] [7] On August 28, 2011, problems were observed on multiple Internet service providersin Iran. [8] The fraudulent certificate was posted on pastebin .[ 9] According to a news release by Vasco, DigiNotar had detected an intrusion into its certificate authority infrastructure on July 19, 2011.[10]DigiNotar did not publicly reveal the security breach at the time." On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Ted wrote: > On chrome, you locate the cert. , but Delete is not option, so "Edit", > allows you to uncheck what this cert. verifies. > Not sure why chrome doesn't allow one to just delete it. > Thanks for the info. I wonder if this is the first time a root cert got > hacked? > > -tl > > > > On 09/07/2011 11:48 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> Much security on the internet is based on a tree of digital certificates. >> The roots (note plural) are wired-in to browsers. >> >> The DigiNotar root certificate has been hacked so it should not be >> trusted. >> >> Browser updates will revoke the DigiNotar certificate. >> >> If you cannot update your browser, you can revoke DigiNotar's root >> certificate by hand. I just did that on my desktop (which is running a >> Fedora that is no longer supported). >> >> In Firefox: Edit: Preferences: Advanced: Encryption: View Certificates: >> Scan down for DigiNotar. >> Click on the triangle next to it to open it up. >> Click on the only cert in it. >> Click Delete. >> >> I think that will do the job. Better would be a Certificate Revocation >> List (CRL) entry, but I don't know how to do that. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 16:06:01 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:06:01 -0400 Subject: security issue: DigiNotar root certificate hacked In-Reply-To: <4E6794B5.4010901-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E6794B5.4010901@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Ted wrote: > On chrome, you locate the cert. , but Delete is not option, so "Edit", > allows you to uncheck what this cert. verifies. > Not sure why chrome doesn't allow one to just delete it. > Thanks for the info. I wonder if this is the first time a root cert got > hacked? Nope. Comodo was nailed not that long ago. In fact it may have been the same person behind this one: -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 18:06:33 2011 From: steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (steven meyer) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 14:06:33 -0400 Subject: Anyone looking for a C programming position? Message-ID: <4E67B2A9.6010101@computer.org> Hi, For anyone interested, the company I am with has a full-time, junior/intermediate position for a Linux C software developer (University degree required). The company is located mid-Toronto on the subway. Please contact me off-list for details if you are interested. Regards, Steven steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 18:11:24 2011 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:11:24 -0400 Subject: Call from Wicrosoft Message-ID: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> I just had a call ostensibly from Microsoft in California. The gentleman (Chris Brown) says there is something wrong with my computer which is confusing their servers. He gave his phone number as 424-256-2700. Since I'm runing Suse Linux it does seem unlikely I'd be screwing over a Microsoft Server. Any suggestions what I should do with this apparent scam? Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 18:17:34 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 14:17:34 -0400 Subject: Call from Wicrosoft In-Reply-To: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4E67B53E.3040005@alteeve.com> On 09/07/2011 02:11 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I just had a call ostensibly from Microsoft in California. The gentleman > (Chris Brown) says there is something wrong with my computer which is > confusing their servers. > > He gave his phone number as 424-256-2700. > > Since I'm runing Suse Linux it does seem unlikely I'd be screwing over a > Microsoft Server. > > Any suggestions what I should do with this apparent scam? > > Peter It's a Verizon Wireless number, almost certainly a scam. Grab a recorder, call back and have some fun. ;) -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 18:27:14 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:27:14 -0400 Subject: Call from Wicrosoft In-Reply-To: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 2:11 PM, wrote: > I just had a call ostensibly from Microsoft in California. The gentleman > (Chris Brown) says there is something wrong with my computer which is > confusing their servers. > > He gave his phone number as 424-256-2700. > > Since I'm runing Suse Linux it does seem unlikely I'd be screwing over a > Microsoft Server. > > Any suggestions what I should do with this apparent scam? Did he give any description (specific services or pages? something else?) as to how you were confusing said servers? Also, if he asked for - and especially if you provided any - personal information, it might be worth reporting in the event that some form of identity theft occurs. (Personally I try to log dates, times & descriptions when strange incidents or communications pop up.) -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 18:47:13 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:47:13 -0400 Subject: Call from Wicrosoft In-Reply-To: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 2:11 PM, wrote: > I just had a call ostensibly from Microsoft in California. The gentleman > (Chris Brown) says there is something wrong with my computer which is > confusing their servers. > > He gave his phone number as 424-256-2700. > > Since I'm runing Suse Linux it does seem unlikely I'd be screwing over a > Microsoft Server. > > Any suggestions what I should do with this apparent scam? I asked them what my IP address was, and what they thought my Windows ID key was, and they seemed reluctant to provide such information, despite my telling them that, according to my security policies, I am not permitted to tell them anything further until they provide that information. (Yes, of course, there won't be any Windows ID key :-)!) When I escalated it to the manager, and informed them that they were a pack of fraudulent liars, as per the threat indications I have from the APWG (Anti Phishing Working Group; went to one of their conferences a few years ago, and am still on the mailing list), and that they were calling illegally, according to bill C-37, he took a notably profane turn, hurling nasty, nasty abuse at me, at which point I hung up. I'm surprised that you were called by someone from North America, as legal attacks would be reasonably plausible to be able to hit someone in the US. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 18:50:37 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:50:37 -0400 Subject: Call from Wicrosoft In-Reply-To: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 2:11 PM, wrote: > I just had a call ostensibly from Microsoft in California. The gentleman > (Chris Brown) says there is something wrong with my computer which is > confusing their servers. > > He gave his phone number as 424-256-2700. > > Since I'm runing Suse Linux it does seem unlikely I'd be screwing over a > Microsoft Server. I got one of these calls a few weeks ago and played it out for as long as I had the stomach to do so (my home has a mix of Debian, Ubuntu boxes, plus one Sun and one Mac to keep things interesting). Bottom line, the guy wanted me to go to a website download and install some software (I assume the software is some sort of Microsoft ultra-malware). Pretty safe bet these people are doing this to make some money, and the way to stop them is to make it all unprofitable for them. So, WASTE their time, pretend to be stupid about computers, drag things out, reduce the number of people this person can call per day.... > Any suggestions what I should do with this apparent scam? > > Peter > > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 20:10:36 2011 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 13:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Call from Wicrosoft In-Reply-To: References: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1315426236.53961.YahooMailNeo@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi, That looks like?http://www.therecord.com/news/local/article/579638--police-warn-of-phone-scam-offering-anti-virus-software? --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com >________________________________ >From: Colin McGregor >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 2:50:37 PM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Call from Wicrosoft > >On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 2:11 PM,? wrote: >> I just had a call ostensibly from Microsoft in California. The gentleman >> (Chris Brown) says there is something wrong with my computer which is >> confusing their servers. >> >> He gave his phone number as 424-256-2700. >> >> Since I'm runing Suse Linux it does seem unlikely I'd be screwing over a >> Microsoft Server. > >I got one of these calls a few weeks ago and played it out for as long >as I had the stomach to do so (my home has a mix of Debian, Ubuntu >boxes, plus one Sun and one Mac to keep things interesting). Bottom >line, the guy wanted me to go to a website download and install some >software (I assume the software is some sort of Microsoft >ultra-malware). Pretty safe bet these people are doing this to make >some money, and the way to stop them is to make it all unprofitable >for them. So, WASTE their time, pretend to be stupid about computers, >drag things out, reduce the number of people this person can call per >day.... > >> Any suggestions what I should do with this apparent scam? >> >> Peter >> >> >> -- >> Peter Hiscocks >> Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto >> http://www.syscompdesign.com >> USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator >> 647-839-0325 >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 7 21:09:11 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 17:09:11 -0400 Subject: Call from Wicrosoft In-Reply-To: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20110907170911.8936f0c8.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:11:24 -0400 phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I just had a call ostensibly from Microsoft in California. The gentleman > (Chris Brown) says there is something wrong with my computer which is > confusing their servers. > > He gave his phone number as 424-256-2700. > > Since I'm runing Suse Linux it does seem unlikely I'd be screwing over a > Microsoft Server. > > Any suggestions what I should do with this apparent scam? > > Peter Peter, I am getting phone calls from people claiming that my computer is broadcasting onto the internet. The big problem is not sounding too confident with these people. They twig to the fact that you are not running Windows. Here is the ultimate reaction to this crap... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7OgWcwgB50 -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 00:45:56 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 20:45:56 -0400 Subject: What the heck happend with LibreOffice on Debian Unstable? In-Reply-To: <1315311439.4506.1.camel@cougar-natty> References: <1315311439.4506.1.camel@cougar-natty> Message-ID: Turns out this is mainly just a problem with Synaptic, which is not surprising. What a mess. I kept going in circles for awhile, then uninstalled everything with Synaptic, closed that and did an 'apt-get install libreoffice', which went fine. I should have tried that right away, Synaptic is not the most reliable tool. On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Terrence Enger wrote: > Thomas, > > I have been following dev and discuss mail lists for > LibreOffice, and I have not noticed your problem mentioned. > > If Debian support (I am not familiar with it) is not > helpful, you might ask on the discuss list at The Document > Foundation, discuss-DL+rna6QvqRRQ0oMI7lyI3G1qET/BF4J at public.gmane.org; IIRC you do not > have to be subscribed to the the list, but it might be > easiest: discuss+subscribe-DL+rna6QvqRRQ0oMI7lyIxlBQnHKHwzh at public.gmane.org > > This suggestion is a bit remote from your problem, but your > question has gone unaddressed since yesterday, so I am > throwing it out. > > HTH, > Terry. > > > On Mon, 2011-09-05 at 12:59 -0400, Thomas Milne wrote, under > the subject heading "What the heck happend with LibreOffice > on Debian Unstable?": > > Update before last one had a bunch of new libreoffice packages, nothing > came > > up in apt-listbugs so I let it run. However, when I try to run > libreoffice I > > get: > > > > /usr/lib/libreoffice/program/soffice.bin: error while loading shared > > libraries: libsofficeapp.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file > or > > directory > > > > I thought there might have been some mess laying around, so I tried > > uninstalling libreoffice from Synaptic, and reinstalling. However, even > > trying to remove libreoffice is causing a cascade of changes like > removing > > gconf2 and installing packages called libextcat and libgraphite. How does > it > > make sense that removing libreoffice would require _installing_ new > > packages? The whole thing is a complete mess. Anyone else seeing this > > disaster? > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 02:00:15 2011 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 22:00:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? In-Reply-To: <20110907142335.GF15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110906220021.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110906235648.GD17017@adb.ca> <20110907142335.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110908020015.GG17017@adb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > ... And in the case of firefox specifically, > the license does not permit the use of the name or graphics if any of > that is changed, which makes it not qualify as free software (if you > can't change the icons, then you aren't free to modify the program, > so it isn't free software). So as a result, the icons and name has to > change to make it free software. Fortunately the source code itself is > free, so it can be done with minimal changes. I'd see that more as a clause that says that if you want to fork the software, you have to make it *CLEAR* that you're on a fork by also changing the name/icon/whatever. I've seen things as small and stupid as some luser giving a Squid developer grief because advice including the place the project put some of its files wasn't "correct" on a Red Hat box because the distro modified things to their Linuxy places. (The lack of agreement between various *ix flavours as to where stuff goes, /usr/local or /usr, /etc or /usr/local/etc, /opt, yadda yadda, is a mess in which would-be developers of portable software and users thereof can both blame the promulguators of this wide selection of standards.) -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 13:38:50 2011 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 09:38:50 -0400 Subject: Call from Wicrosoft In-Reply-To: <20110907170911.8936f0c8.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110907170911.8936f0c8.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: Or: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXjmmbDV1bk j On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Wed, 7 Sep 2011 14:11:24 -0400 > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> I just had a call ostensibly from Microsoft [. . .] >> >> Any suggestions what I should do with this apparent scam? >> >> Peter > > [. . .] > > ? Here is the ultimate reaction to this crap... > > ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7OgWcwgB50 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sina.eetezadi-UsiKwlUuF4aeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 14:20:15 2011 From: sina.eetezadi-UsiKwlUuF4aeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org (Sina Eetezadi) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 10:20:15 -0400 Subject: Using VPN at UoT with Network Manager? Message-ID: <4E68CF1F.4020402@mail.utoronto.ca> Hi guys, i just arrived in Toronto and I am a UoT PhD student in the pharma building working on cancer research. I use Ubuntu 10.04 and I would love to connect to the VPN via the Network manager. They offer the following tutorial: http://vpn.utoronto.ca/nix_install This already works. Now I took the .ovn file and copy and pasted the certificates into three different files so I can use them in the network manager. Yes, I installed the OpenVPN packet first. However, it doesn't work. It tries, does not ask for the username and then fails because of timeout. Mybe there is a detailled lofg somewhere I don't know about. Did any of you guys succeed to do that? Thank you. Sina -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 14:52:13 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 10:52:13 -0400 Subject: OT: Opinion, best open source license to use? In-Reply-To: <20110908020015.GG17017-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20110906220021.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110906235648.GD17017@adb.ca> <20110907142335.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110908020015.GG17017@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20110908145213.GG15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 07, 2011 at 10:00:15PM -0400, Anthony de Boer wrote: > I'd see that more as a clause that says that if you want to fork the > software, you have to make it *CLEAR* that you're on a fork by also > changing the name/icon/whatever. Well others take the clause to also say "You can't change these graphics in any way". > I've seen things as small and stupid as some luser giving a Squid > developer grief because advice including the place the project put some > of its files wasn't "correct" on a Red Hat box because the distro > modified things to their Linuxy places. Well stupid user then. Of course some projects really do have some odd choices. Anything by DJB for example. :) > (The lack of agreement between various *ix flavours as to where stuff > goes, /usr/local or /usr, /etc or /usr/local/etc, /opt, yadda yadda, > is a mess in which would-be developers of portable software and > users thereof can both blame the promulguators of this wide selection > of standards.) Unix is a mess. At least linux with LSB and FHS is in a much better state in general. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 15:39:40 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 11:39:40 -0400 Subject: Using VPN at UoT with Network Manager? In-Reply-To: <4E68CF1F.4020402-UsiKwlUuF4aeFQavDyXPBQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E68CF1F.4020402@mail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20110908153940.GH15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 08, 2011 at 10:20:15AM -0400, Sina Eetezadi wrote: > i just arrived in Toronto and I am a UoT PhD student in the pharma > building working on cancer research. I use Ubuntu 10.04 and > I would love to connect to the VPN via the Network manager. > > They offer the following tutorial: > http://vpn.utoronto.ca/nix_install Would have been much nicer if they told you how to configure openvpn rather than installing from source. Very rude and inconsiderate of them. > This already works. Now I took the .ovn file and copy and pasted the > certificates into three different files so I can use them in the network > manager. Yes, I installed the OpenVPN packet first. > > However, it doesn't work. It tries, does not ask for the username and > then fails because of timeout. Mybe there is a detailled lofg somewhere > I don't know about. > > Did any of you guys succeed to do that? Not being at UofT. Nope. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 15:41:00 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 11:41:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: What the heck happend with LibreOffice on Debian Unstable? In-Reply-To: References: <1315311439.4506.1.camel@cougar-natty> Message-ID: | From: Thomas Milne | Turns out this is mainly just a problem with Synaptic, which is not | surprising. What a mess. I use Synaptic on Ubuntu systems. So I'd love to be warned about what I might step into. Do you know of a writeup of what to watch for? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 16:10:51 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 12:10:51 -0400 Subject: Using VPN at UoT with Network Manager? In-Reply-To: <20110908153940.GH15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4E68CF1F.4020402@mail.utoronto.ca> <20110908153940.GH15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E68E90B.9010305@utoronto.ca> On 09/08/2011 11:39 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 08, 2011 at 10:20:15AM -0400, Sina Eetezadi wrote: >> i just arrived in Toronto and I am a UoT PhD student in the pharma >> building working on cancer research. I use Ubuntu 10.04 and >> I would love to connect to the VPN via the Network manager. >> >> They offer the following tutorial: >> http://vpn.utoronto.ca/nix_install > > Would have been much nicer if they told you how to configure openvpn > rather than installing from source. Very rude and inconsiderate of them. I sent them a fat patch a while ago to use rpms and debs depending on the distro. It didn't get implemented from what I saw last time I checked :( Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 16:24:48 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 12:24:48 -0400 Subject: Using VPN at UoT with Network Manager? In-Reply-To: <4E68E90B.9010305-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E68CF1F.4020402@mail.utoronto.ca> <20110908153940.GH15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E68E90B.9010305@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20110908162448.GI15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 08, 2011 at 12:10:51PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I sent them a fat patch a while ago to use rpms and debs depending on > the distro. It didn't get implemented from what I saw last time I checked :( The script does have code in it to identify debian and use packages, but it is disabled. Of course the fact they want to still mess with the init script, and don't name the tun modprobe.d file with .conf (which is now the standard in debian and will soon be required) doesn't help either. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 16:58:29 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 12:58:29 -0400 Subject: Using VPN at UoT with Network Manager? In-Reply-To: <20110908162448.GI15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4E68CF1F.4020402@mail.utoronto.ca> <20110908153940.GH15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E68E90B.9010305@utoronto.ca> <20110908162448.GI15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 8 September 2011 12:24, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 08, 2011 at 12:10:51PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> I sent them a fat patch a while ago to use rpms and debs depending on >> the distro. It didn't get implemented from what I saw last time I checked :( > > The script does have code in it to identify debian and use packages, > but it is disabled. Thats odd, why would someone take an effort to do that? > > Of course the fact they want to still mess with the init script, and > don't name the tun modprobe.d file with .conf (which is now the standard > in debian and will soon be required) doesn't help either. I do hate source install too. To fragile for anything long time. And I do not see good reason that would make them a better alternative. In fact, if I come across an article that suggest source install, I just move on as I have developed an opinion that such suggestion are from unexperienced users. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 17:15:39 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 13:15:39 -0400 Subject: Best practice for apache on ubuntu Message-ID: Hello I came across this article and the following sentence seem not to be helpful in what its trying to deliver. Google is not helping with a better article I keep getting the same explanation. Quote: httpd.conf: historically the main Apache2 configuration file, named after the httpd daemon. The file can be used for user specific configuration options that globally effect Apache2. End quote: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/httpd.html I am curious as to what should be the content of this file as its used in Ubuntu. If it was on Centos, this would be the main configuration file. On Ubuntu and I assume Debian, its empty. What is its intended use? For example, if I want to change the default MPM settings, should it be done on apache2.conf or httpd.conf? Its a user specific setting in my opinion. In short, I get a feeling apache2.conf should never be edited and all changes should be on httpd.conf, including change to root directory. Is this correct? Also, what is the best practice for ssl configuration? Should they go into vhost file, apache2.conf or httpd.conf? I tend to put them on vhost file, but there is a lot of redundancy with this setup and it tend to feel a tad inefficient. Thanks in advance Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 17:36:22 2011 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 10:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Best practice for apache on ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1315503382.58163.YahooMailNeo@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, I take "best practice" as what most people with experience do. For Debian/Ubuntu and Apache2 this is what I do and see most: Global server configurarion goes into apache2.conf and httpd.conf is empty. This is what comes with the package install too. Virtual servers (site-specific settings like DocumentRoot) go into sites_available directory, using the domain name as basis for the name of the file. Under sites_enabled directories are links to sites_available. Special configurations under conf.d directory (like security). And that's pretty much it. Some people like to put the SSL version of the virtual host on the same file, other people like to put it in a separate file.? ? --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Muriithi > To: TLUG mailing list > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 1:15:39 PM > Subject: [TLUG]: Best practice for apache on ubuntu > > Hello > > I came across this article and the following sentence seem not to be > helpful in what its trying to deliver. Google is not helping with a > better article I keep getting the same explanation. > > Quote: > httpd.conf: historically the main Apache2 configuration file, named > after the httpd daemon. The file can be used for user specific > configuration options that globally effect Apache2. > End quote: > > https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/httpd.html > > I am curious as to what should be the content of this file as its used > in Ubuntu.? If it was on Centos, this would be the main configuration > file.? On Ubuntu and I assume Debian, its empty.? What is its intended > use?? For example, if I want to change the default MPM settings, > should it be done on apache2.conf or httpd.conf?? Its a user specific > setting in my opinion.? In short, I get a feeling apache2.conf should > never be edited and all changes should be on httpd.conf, including > change to root directory.? Is this correct? > > Also, what is the best practice for ssl configuration?? Should they go > into vhost file, apache2.conf or httpd.conf?? I tend to put them on > vhost file, but there is a lot of redundancy with this setup and it > tend to feel a tad inefficient. > > Thanks in advance > > Regards, > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 17:49:33 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 13:49:33 -0400 Subject: Using VPN at UoT with Network Manager? In-Reply-To: References: <4E68CF1F.4020402@mail.utoronto.ca> <20110908153940.GH15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E68E90B.9010305@utoronto.ca> <20110908162448.GI15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110908174933.GJ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 08, 2011 at 12:58:29PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Thats odd, why would someone take an effort to do that? Maybe it wasn't quite working and rather than fix it they threw it all away. > I do hate source install too. To fragile for anything long time. And > I do not see good reason that would make them a better alternative. > In fact, if I come across an article that suggest source install, I > just move on as I have developed an opinion that such suggestion are > from unexperienced users. Yes it tends to be. If they would instead say: Here is how to configure openvpn for use with uoft's vpn that would be useful. But all that seems hidden away in their awful script. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 19:29:43 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:29:43 -0400 Subject: Best practice for apache on ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E6917A7.7010503@ve3syb.ca> On 11-09-08 01:15 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > httpd.conf: historically the main Apache2 configuration file, named > after the httpd daemon. The file can be used for user specific > configuration options that globally effect Apache2. If httpd.conf is empty, leave it that way. In the past it was the main configuration file for apache and may still be the main one for some web servers. > For example, if I want to change the default MPM settings, > should it be done on apache2.conf or httpd.conf? Its a user specific > setting in my opinion. In short, I get a feeling apache2.conf should > never be edited and all changes should be on httpd.conf, including > change to root directory. Is this correct? > Also, what is the best practice for ssl configuration? Add a symlink to mods-enabled to the ssl.* files in mods-available. You can make the changes you need to those files. If you are using virtual hosting there is a file to enable that feature. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 20:00:10 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 13:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: (question) Raid5 + Encryption -- which is first? Message-ID: <1315512010.3798.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi all, If I want to encrypt a whole filesystem which is Raid5, do I make Raid5 first and then mount it as "encrypted" partition?? (my guess is yes). But, that begs question.? What if I add a device to Raid5?? Will it be transparent to encryption layer, or will it screw it up? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 20:07:09 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 16:07:09 -0400 Subject: (question) Raid5 + Encryption -- which is first? In-Reply-To: <1315512010.3798.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOEA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1315512010.3798.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E69206D.7090104@gmail.com> On 09/08/2011 04:00 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > If I want to encrypt a whole filesystem which is Raid5, do I make Raid5 first and then mount it as "encrypted" partition? (my guess is yes). > > But, that begs question. What if I add a device to Raid5? Will it be transparent to encryption layer, or will it screw it up? encrypion happens at partition file system level, above raid. you can add a device, put you can't alter the partition the encryption is on. if you are adding a device that will fail over to, thats fine, the encryption level of this doesn't need to know or notice that. A raid drive can "rebuild" fine, and the encrypted fs on top of it will not be effected. But if you are talking about expanding size? i don't know of a encrypted fs that has expand capabilities for resize, but maybe there is, but if not, have to define new FS of new size, and copy over to. or on the R5 you can add a drive and make a new partition from unused space across the disk set, that is fine as well. Now you say "encrypted partition", but i think of only encrypted FS. If there is encrypted partition? my thinking goes out window. -tl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 20:12:46 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:12:46 -0400 Subject: (question) Raid5 + Encryption -- which is first? In-Reply-To: <1315512010.3798.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOEA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1315512010.3798.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:00 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > If I want to encrypt a whole filesystem which is Raid5, do I make Raid5 first and then mount it as "encrypted" partition?? (my guess is yes). > > But, that begs question.? What if I add a device to Raid5?? Will it be transparent to encryption layer, or will it screw it up? It begs a further question... How are you going to provide the decryption key? If it is to be placed somewhere where it will be read automatically upon bootup, then it is accessible to any decently competent attacker, and therefore your encryption is providing no real protection. It's like the distinction between "part of this good breakfast," and "adjacent to this good breakfast." Some boxed cereals have a lovely picture of a fine breakfast, consisting of: - Coffee - Several kinds of fruit - Milk - Toast, with toppings - Finally, a bowl of the breakfast cereal. Truly, that cereal is "adjacent to a good breakfast." If you replaced it with a bowl of styrofoam, the remainder of the items in the picture would still represent a splendid breakfast. Encryption, outside of use within a known to be useful protocol, is just "Cargo Cult administration." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 20:13:54 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:13:54 -0400 Subject: (question) Raid5 + Encryption -- which is first? In-Reply-To: <1315512010.3798.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOEA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1315512010.3798.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110908201354.GA19054@watson-wilson.ca> I think that you let RAID handle the raw devices. It will 'RAID' your bits, be the encrypted or not. RAID does not care what the higher level data is. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 20:15:42 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:15:42 -0400 Subject: (question) Raid5 + Encryption -- which is first? In-Reply-To: <1315512010.3798.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOEA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1315512010.3798.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110908201542.GK15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 08, 2011 at 01:00:10PM -0700, William Park wrote: > If I want to encrypt a whole filesystem which is Raid5, do I make Raid5 first and then mount it as "encrypted" partition?? (my guess is yes). I would certainly put the raid layer at the bottom. Otherwise you certainly have no way to resize it later. And you would be running one encryption session per disk, which seems silly. > But, that begs question.? What if I add a device to Raid5?? Will it be transparent to encryption layer, or will it screw it up? Well the block device would change size, but whether the encryption system supports resizing is another issue. Filesystems in general have that problem. That's why we ahve filesystem resize tools. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 20:19:16 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:19:16 -0400 Subject: Sad news at Project Gutenberg Message-ID: The founder of the project just passed away. Here is his obituary: http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Michael_S._Hart -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 8 21:30:45 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 17:30:45 -0400 Subject: Using VPN at UoT with Network Manager? In-Reply-To: <4E68CF1F.4020402-UsiKwlUuF4aeFQavDyXPBQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E68CF1F.4020402@mail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Try running vpn from command line. Just type # openvpn config_file_name By when running in foreground mode openvpn spits output to console. At that point it would probably show you the errors you've got -- that being a missing certificate or invalid command syntax. Once you fix the obvious errors, openvpn has a number of debug levels in configuration file add verbosity = 8 or debug = 8 I don't remember exactly. Then start decreasing that number until console error messages start to make sense. I also suggest to remove compiled source and reinstall from distro repository. Sent from my mobile device. On Sep 8, 2011 10:21 AM, "Sina Eetezadi" wrote: > > Hi guys, > > i just arrived in Toronto and I am a UoT PhD student in the pharma > building working on cancer research. I use Ubuntu 10.04 and > I would love to connect to the VPN via the Network manager. > > They offer the following tutorial: > http://vpn.utoronto.ca/nix_install > > This already works. Now I took the .ovn file and copy and pasted the > certificates into three different files so I can use them in the network > manager. Yes, I installed the OpenVPN packet first. > > However, it doesn't work. It tries, does not ask for the username and > then fails because of timeout. Mybe there is a detailled lofg somewhere > I don't know about. > > Did any of you guys succeed to do that? > > Thank you. > > Sina > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 9 02:26:58 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 22:26:58 -0400 Subject: Meet David Cake of Electronic Freedom Australia Message-ID: This Saturday evening David Cake ( http://www.efa.org.au/about/board/david-cake/ ) of Electronic Freedom Australia will be here in Toronto at a party hosted Catherine Crockett and Colin Heinz. David Cake is here in part due to DUFF (Down Under Fan Fund) a program that help northern hemisphere science fiction fans visit Australia and vice-verse. So, if you are into electronic freedom issues and/or science fiction this will be a party worth attending... The party details are: Saturday at 8:00pm - Sunday at 8:00am Party will be near Bloor and Bathurst. Toronto, ON If you wish to attend, please RSVP Catherine - crockett-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org - for the exact address. Do note that Catherine has requested that I promote this event as widely as I can (here is hoping that she doesn't regret that request...). Colin McGregor P.S., When I spoke to Catherine this afternoon I did warn her that this message MIGHT be read by 500+ people and she was okay with that... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 9 03:29:14 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: WilkiLeak US cable about Microsoft and Tunisian Government Message-ID: (This government has been overthrown, the first to fall in the Arab Spring.) I found this from Microsoft did a deal with the Tunisian government to ditch their open-source policy. "future GOT tenders for IT equipment will specify that the equipment must be Microsoft compatible, which is currently prohibited by the Tunisian open software policy. " "The fact that the government relied on open source software drastically limited business in Tunisia and prevented Microsoft from participating in GOT tenders." "even though Microsoft will be investing in Tunisia, the sum of investment will be lower than the cost of GOT purchases." "7. (C) Comment: Although the agreement has been hailed as a triumph for intellectual property rights, the negotiations and the brokered deal itself reveal a more complicated reality. Microsoft was able to broker the final agreement by appealing to GOT unemployment sensitivities as well as by adapting to the realities of doing business in Tunisia. Even as the goal of expanding employment opportunities for handicapped Tunisians is worthy, the program's affiliation with Leila Ben Ali's charity is indicative of the backroom maneuvering sometimes required to finalize a deal. Microsoft's reticence to fully disclose the details of the agreement further highlights the GOT emphasis on secrecy over transparency. In theory, increasing GOT law enforcement capability through IT training is positive, but given heavy-handed GOT interference in the internet, Post questions whether this will expand GOT capacity to monitor its own citizens. Ultimately, for Microsoft the benefits outweigh the costs. End Comment." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 9 12:20:00 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:20:00 -0400 Subject: What the heck happend with LibreOffice on Debian Unstable? In-Reply-To: References: <1315311439.4506.1.camel@cougar-natty> Message-ID: I haven't researched it. All I know is, apt-get will often succeed where Synaptic chokes. I don't know what they do differently with regard to dependencies. I also avoid aptitude. On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 11:41 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Thomas Milne > > | Turns out this is mainly just a problem with Synaptic, which is not > | surprising. What a mess. > > I use Synaptic on Ubuntu systems. So I'd love to be warned about > what I might step into. Do you know of a writeup of what to watch > for? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sina.eetezadi-UsiKwlUuF4aeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 9 13:34:23 2011 From: sina.eetezadi-UsiKwlUuF4aeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org (Sina Eetezadi) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 09:34:23 -0400 Subject: Using VPN at UoT with Network Manager? In-Reply-To: References: <4E68CF1F.4020402@mail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4E6A15DF.8030608@mail.utoronto.ca> hi! > Try running vpn from command line. Just type > > # openvpn config_file_name So I did that, this is the output. However, I don't really understand, what I could do now :/ Something maybe wrong with the "option string", but where can I fix that? #### START #### se at uglyduck:~$ openvpn --config 10_Interim/vpn/utorvpn.ovpn --verb 4 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4312 Current Parameter Settings: Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4412 config = '10_Interim/vpn/utorvpn.ovpn' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4433 mode = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4449 persist_config = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4465 persist_mode = 1 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4480 show_ciphers = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4495 show_digests = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4510 show_engines = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4524 genkey = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4539 key_pass_file = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4554 show_tls_ciphers = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4569 Connection profiles [default]: Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4585 proto = udp Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4600 local = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4615 local_port = 1194 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4630 remote = 'vpn.utoronto.ca' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4646 remote_port = 1194 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4661 remote_float = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4676 bind_defined = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4691 bind_local = ENABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4706 connect_retry_seconds = 5 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4720 connect_timeout = 10 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4735 connect_retry_max = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4750 socks_proxy_server = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4804 socks_proxy_port = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4829 socks_proxy_retry = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4855 Connection profiles END Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4879 remote_random = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4902 ipchange = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4927 dev = 'tun' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4953 dev_type = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=4978 dev_node = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5003 lladdr = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5029 topology = 3 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5054 tun_ipv6 = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5079 ifconfig_local = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5105 ifconfig_remote_netmask = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5130 ifconfig_noexec = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5156 ifconfig_nowarn = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5183 shaper = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5209 tun_mtu = 1500 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5233 tun_mtu_defined = ENABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5259 link_mtu = 1500 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5284 link_mtu_defined = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5311 tun_mtu_extra = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5337 tun_mtu_extra_defined = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5363 fragment = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5388 mtu_discover_type = -1 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5414 mtu_test = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5439 mlock = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5465 keepalive_ping = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5491 keepalive_timeout = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5517 inactivity_timeout = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5543 ping_send_timeout = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5569 ping_rec_timeout = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5594 ping_rec_timeout_action = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5620 ping_timer_remote = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5645 remap_sigusr1 = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5672 explicit_exit_notification = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5697 persist_tun = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5722 persist_local_ip = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5747 persist_remote_ip = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5779 persist_key = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5805 mssfix = 1450 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5830 passtos = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5856 resolve_retry_seconds = 1000000000 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5882 username = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5907 groupname = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5932 chroot_dir = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5958 cd_dir = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=5984 writepid = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6009 up_script = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6034 down_script = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6059 down_pre = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6080 up_restart = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6095 up_delay = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6110 daemon = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6125 inetd = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6139 log = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6154 suppress_timestamps = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6169 nice = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6183 verbosity = 4 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6226 mute = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6248 gremlin = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6264 status_file = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6278 status_file_version = 1 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6293 status_file_update_freq = 60 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6308 occ = ENABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6323 rcvbuf = 65536 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6337 sndbuf = 65536 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6352 sockflags = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6366 fast_io = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6381 route_script = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6395 route_default_gateway = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6410 route_default_metric = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6425 route_noexec = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6439 route_delay = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6454 route_delay_window = 30 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6469 route_delay_defined = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6484 route_nopull = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6498 route_gateway_via_dhcp = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6514 max_routes = 100 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6529 allow_pull_fqdn = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6544 management_addr = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6559 management_port = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6573 management_user_pass = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6589 management_log_history_cache = 250 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6604 management_echo_buffer_size = 100 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6619 management_write_peer_info_file = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6634 management_client_user = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6649 management_client_group = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6664 management_flags = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6680 shared_secret_file = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6695 key_direction = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6710 ciphername_defined = ENABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6725 ciphername = 'BF-CBC' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6740 authname_defined = ENABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6755 authname = 'SHA1' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6769 prng_hash = 'SHA1' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6785 prng_nonce_secret_len = 16 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6800 keysize = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6815 engine = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6830 replay = ENABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6845 mute_replay_warnings = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6861 replay_window = 64 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6875 replay_time = 15 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6890 packet_id_file = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6905 use_iv = ENABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6920 test_crypto = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6935 tls_server = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6949 tls_client = ENABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6964 key_method = 2 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6979 ca_file = '[[INLINE]]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=6994 ca_path = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7009 dh_file = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7023 cert_file = '[[INLINE]]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7038 priv_key_file = '[[INLINE]]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7053 pkcs12_file = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7068 cipher_list = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7082 tls_verify = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7098 tls_remote = 'UTORvpn-Server' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7112 crl_file = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7127 ns_cert_type = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7142 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7158 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7173 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7187 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7202 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7217 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7231 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7246 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7260 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7275 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7289 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7303 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7318 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7332 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7347 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7361 remote_cert_ku[i] = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7376 remote_cert_eku = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7391 tls_timeout = 2 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7405 renegotiate_bytes = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7420 renegotiate_packets = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7435 renegotiate_seconds = 3600 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7450 handshake_window = 120 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7465 transition_window = 3600 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7480 single_session = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7495 tls_exit = ENABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7510 tls_auth_file = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7540 server_network = 0.0.0.0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7557 server_netmask = 0.0.0.0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7574 server_bridge_ip = 0.0.0.0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7591 server_bridge_netmask = 0.0.0.0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7607 server_bridge_pool_start = 0.0.0.0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7624 server_bridge_pool_end = 0.0.0.0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7640 ifconfig_pool_defined = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7657 ifconfig_pool_start = 0.0.0.0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7673 ifconfig_pool_end = 0.0.0.0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7690 ifconfig_pool_netmask = 0.0.0.0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7705 ifconfig_pool_persist_filename = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7720 ifconfig_pool_persist_refresh_freq = 600 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7735 n_bcast_buf = 256 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7750 tcp_queue_limit = 64 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7764 real_hash_size = 256 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7779 virtual_hash_size = 256 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7794 client_connect_script = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7808 learn_address_script = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=7823 client_disconnect_script = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14219 client_config_dir = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14253 ccd_exclusive = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14281 tmp_dir = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14305 push_ifconfig_defined = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14328 push_ifconfig_local = 0.0.0.0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14351 push_ifconfig_remote_netmask = 0.0.0.0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14371 enable_c2c = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14390 duplicate_cn = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14410 cf_max = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14429 cf_per = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14449 max_clients = 1024 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14468 max_routes_per_client = 256 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14488 auth_user_pass_verify_script = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14508 auth_user_pass_verify_script_via_file = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14528 ssl_flags = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14547 port_share_host = '[UNDEF]' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14567 port_share_port = 0 Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14586 client = DISABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14605 pull = ENABLED Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14622 auth_user_pass_file = 'stdin' Fri Sep 9 09:27:27 2011 us=14649 OpenVPN 2.1_rc20 i686-pc-linux-gnu [SSL] [EPOLL] built on Sep 5 2011 Enter Auth Username:eetezadi Enter Auth Password: Fri Sep 9 09:27:34 2011 us=72382 WARNING: Make sure you understand the semantics of --tls-remote before using it (see the man page). Fri Sep 9 09:27:34 2011 us=72417 NOTE: OpenVPN 2.1 requires '--script-security 2' or higher to call user-defined scripts or executables Fri Sep 9 09:27:34 2011 us=73531 Control Channel MTU parms [ L:1541 D:138 EF:38 EB:0 ET:0 EL:0 ] Fri Sep 9 09:27:34 2011 us=75095 Data Channel MTU parms [ L:1541 D:1450 EF:41 EB:4 ET:0 EL:0 ] Fri Sep 9 09:27:34 2011 us=75143 Local Options String: 'V4,dev-type tun,link-mtu 1541,tun-mtu 1500,proto UDPv4,cipher BF-CBC,auth SHA1,keysize 128,key-method 2,tls-client' Fri Sep 9 09:27:34 2011 us=75161 Expected Remote Options String: 'V4,dev-type tun,link-mtu 1541,tun-mtu 1500,proto UDPv4,cipher BF-CBC,auth SHA1,keysize 128,key-method 2,tls-server' Fri Sep 9 09:27:34 2011 us=75201 Local Options hash (VER=V4): '3514370b' Fri Sep 9 09:27:34 2011 us=75227 Expected Remote Options hash (VER=V4): '239669a8' Fri Sep 9 09:27:34 2011 us=75257 Socket Buffers: R=[112640->131072] S=[112640->131072] Fri Sep 9 09:27:34 2011 us=75290 UDPv4 link local (bound): [undef]:1194 Fri Sep 9 09:27:34 2011 us=75310 UDPv4 link remote: 128.100.56.140:1194 Fri Sep 9 09:29:34 2011 us=572619 [UNDEF] Inactivity timeout (--ping-restart), restarting Fri Sep 9 09:29:34 2011 us=572839 TCP/UDP: Closing socket Fri Sep 9 09:29:34 2011 us=572895 SIGUSR1[soft,ping-restart] received, process restarting Fri Sep 9 09:29:34 2011 us=572921 Restart pause, 2 second(s) #### END #### -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 9 14:00:23 2011 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 10:00:23 -0400 Subject: Using VPN at UoT with Network Manager? In-Reply-To: <4E68CF1F.4020402-UsiKwlUuF4aeFQavDyXPBQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E68CF1F.4020402@mail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4E6A1BF7.7090103@the-wire.com> On 11-09-08 10:20 AM, Sina Eetezadi wrote: > > Hi guys, > > i just arrived in Toronto and I am a UoT PhD student in the pharma > building working on cancer research. I use Ubuntu 10.04 and > I would love to connect to the VPN via the Network manager. > > They offer the following tutorial: > http://vpn.utoronto.ca/nix_install > > This already works. Now I took the .ovn file and copy and pasted the > certificates into three different files so I can use them in the network > manager. Yes, I installed the OpenVPN packet first. > > However, it doesn't work. It tries, does not ask for the username and > then fails because of timeout. Mybe there is a detailled lofg somewhere > I don't know about. > > Did any of you guys succeed to do that? The one time I worked with OpenVPN, I used Mick Bauer's articles from Linux Journal: Maybe they'll help sort out what's happening. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 10 15:17:43 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 11:17:43 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer Message-ID: Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Grant opened his eye and looked around, then looked at the doctor. He then squeezed the doctor's hand on command. This is a very good sign. Most of his other issues, infection, blood clots, breathing, are under control. Still no word on a repatriation flight. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 11 14:43:48 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 10:43:48 -0400 Subject: Interesting Development Message-ID: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/09/hurt-locker-p2p-suits-begin-creeping-north-to-canada.ars "Canadian Internet users are getting a taste of the P2P lawyering that had previously been confined to the US and UK, as *Hurt Locker* lawsuits have begun moving up to the Great White North. Three ISPs have already been ordered to disclose the identities of users accused of downloading the film, and if the ISPs decide to comply, there could be plenty more lawsuits." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 11 16:03:10 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:03:10 -0400 Subject: Interesting Development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110911160310.GA6312@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 10:43:48AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/09/hurt-locker-p2p-suits-begin-creeping-north-to-canada.ars > > "Canadian Internet users are getting a taste of the P2P lawyering that had > previously been confined to the US and UK, as *Hurt Locker* lawsuits have > begun moving up to the Great White North. Three ISPs have already been > ordered to disclose the identities of users accused of downloading the film, > and if the ISPs decide to comply, there could be plenty more lawsuits." Thank God, most of my video sources are in Russia and China! :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 11 16:13:34 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 12:13:34 -0400 Subject: Easy IPv6 Message-ID: <4E6CDE2E.3030804@rogers.com> I recently received a gogoCPE, which is a device for adding IPv6 support to an IPv4 network. You just plug it into your network and within several seconds you can be running IPv6 to the internet, as well as on your network. It uses 6in4 tunnelling to carry IPv6 in IPv4 packets to a "tunnel broker" where the IPv4 headers are stripped off and the IPv6 sent out to the world. The gogoCPE can work behind a NAT firewall, but in that situation UDP is used to encapsulate the IPV6 packet, instead of IP protocol 41. I have been using their software client (both Linux & Windows) for over a year and it also works well. Both the gogoCPE and software client can provide a /56 subnet (2^72 or 4722366482869645213696 addresses) of which a /64 (2^64 addresses) is used for the local network. The other 255 /64 subnets can be routed elsewhere. gogoCPE http://gogoware.gogo6.com/4105/description.asp?product_id=180 6in4 tunnelling https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/6in4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 11 17:22:49 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 13:22:49 -0400 Subject: HP TouchPad screen can now support Android | Digital Media - CNET News Message-ID: <4E6CEE69.9020609@rogers.com> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-20102677-93/hp-touchpad-screen-can-now-support-android/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 11 17:36:34 2011 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 13:36:34 -0400 Subject: Interesting Development In-Reply-To: <20110911160310.GA6312-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110911160310.GA6312@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1315762594.18325.51.camel@el-grande> Thank God I don't use any of those large ISPs that are happy to give this sort of information out and are only looking to ensure they are 'fairly' compensated for their efforts. The smaller ISPs are more cognisant of their subscribers rights and in general have been a lot less inclined to co-operate. I suspect that if this does move north, it will only be subscribers to the large ISPs who are targeted anyway, since they are more cooperative. Yet another reason to dump Robbers and Hell, if you didn't already have enough reasons. On Sun, 2011-09-11 at 12:03 -0400, William Park wrote: > On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 10:43:48AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/09/hurt-locker-p2p-suits-begin-creeping-north-to-canada.ars > > > > "Canadian Internet users are getting a taste of the P2P lawyering that had > > previously been confined to the US and UK, as *Hurt Locker* lawsuits have > > begun moving up to the Great White North. Three ISPs have already been > > ordered to disclose the identities of users accused of downloading the film, > > and if the ISPs decide to comply, there could be plenty more lawsuits." > > Thank God, most of my video sources are in Russia and China! :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 11 17:40:32 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 13:40:32 -0400 Subject: Interesting Development In-Reply-To: <1315762594.18325.51.camel@el-grande> References: <20110911160310.GA6312@node1.opengeometry.net> <1315762594.18325.51.camel@el-grande> Message-ID: <4E6CF290.1010801@rogers.com> Darryl Moore wrote: > I suspect that if this does move north, it will only be subscribers to > the large ISPs who are targeted anyway, since they are more cooperative. > Yet another reason to dump Robbers and Hell, if you didn't already have > enough reasons. > > According to that article, the ISPs were ordered by the Federal Court to provide the info. Smaller ISPs are not likely to ignore a court order either. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 11 17:59:33 2011 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 13:59:33 -0400 Subject: Interesting Development In-Reply-To: <4E6CF290.1010801-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110911160310.GA6312@node1.opengeometry.net> <1315762594.18325.51.camel@el-grande> <4E6CF290.1010801@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1315763973.18325.55.camel@el-grande> Indeed, but were the ISPs actively fighting the requests or were they simply going through the necessary motions because that is what PIPEDA requires? http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5999/125/ "In this instance, the court cited PIPEDA as evidence that the personal information can be disclosed as well as federal court rules for the legitimacy of the claim and the necessity of acquiring the information for the lawsuit to proceed. There is no indication that the ISPs challenged the order or that there was an opportunity for a public interest intervention as was the case in the earlier CRIA lawsuits." While the smaller ISPs as well as Shaw have demonstrated that they will fight and challenge the evidence in court. Robbers and Hell have demonstrated that they will not! On Sun, 2011-09-11 at 13:40 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Darryl Moore wrote: > > I suspect that if this does move north, it will only be subscribers to > > the large ISPs who are targeted anyway, since they are more cooperative. > > Yet another reason to dump Robbers and Hell, if you didn't already have > > enough reasons. > > > > > > According to that article, the ISPs were ordered by the Federal Court to > provide the info. Smaller ISPs are not likely to ignore a court order > either. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 11 18:06:32 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 14:06:32 -0400 Subject: Interesting Development In-Reply-To: <4E6CF290.1010801-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110911160310.GA6312@node1.opengeometry.net> <1315762594.18325.51.camel@el-grande> <4E6CF290.1010801@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 1:40 PM, James Knott wrote: > Darryl Moore wrote: >> >> I suspect that if this does move north, it will only be subscribers to >> the large ISPs who are targeted anyway, since they are more cooperative. >> Yet another reason to dump Robbers and Hell, if you didn't already have >> enough reasons. > > According to that article, the ISPs were ordered by the Federal Court to > provide the info. ?Smaller ISPs are not likely to ignore a court order > either. IANAL but by my understanding is that once the Conservatives' omnibus crime bill (and the included "Lawful Access" provisions) receives Royal Assent and comes into force, court orders will no longer be necessary. With all the international trade pressure to "strengthen" copyright law (eg DRM) in agreements like ACTA or CETA, and with our Government's push to "modernize" our copyright system this is indeed a troubling development. I'm not worried for myself (the vast majority of my media downloads are PD or CC works and my public shares are controlled) but there are many, many Canadians (including politicians, lawyers & law enforcement) who don't restrict their filesharing habits in this way. -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 11 18:44:59 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 14:44:59 -0400 Subject: HP TouchPad screen can now support Android | Digital Media - CNET News In-Reply-To: <4E6CEE69.9020609-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E6CEE69.9020609@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sep 11, 2011 1:23 PM, "James Knott" wrote: > > > http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-20102677-93/hp-touchpad-screen-can-now-support-android/ Was impossible to get one anyway. Spent a bettee part of that weekend trying to acquire one. Happy to see it would have worked out. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 11 19:57:32 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:57:32 -0400 Subject: Unix Unanimous meeting... Message-ID: Unix Unanimous Meeting - Wednesday 14 September 2011 The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at 6:45 pm on Wednesday 14 September 2011, in room BA B024 in the basement of the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. George Street, on the University of Toronto campus. Unix Unanimous is an informal gathering of people interested in Unix and related topics. There are no fees or membership requirements, and the meeting is open to all. Participants typically include Unix professionals, students, and hobbyists. This message will be repeated on the Monday before the meeting. If there are any items for the agenda, please email u-u-owner-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org before then. The meeting is always held on the second Wednesday of each month. Special Announcements: - A mailing list has been set up for this announcement. If you wish to receive notification via email, go to https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u/ to add yourself to the list. - A map of the area can be found at http://unixunanimous.org, where this message is repeated, and will always contain the correct location and time of the next meeting. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 12 00:13:40 2011 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 20:13:40 -0400 Subject: Using VPN at UoT with Network Manager? In-Reply-To: <20110908174933.GJ15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4E68CF1F.4020402@mail.utoronto.ca> <20110908153940.GH15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E68E90B.9010305@utoronto.ca> <20110908162448.GI15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110908174933.GJ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110912001340.GK17017@adb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > If they would instead say: Here is how to configure openvpn for use with > uoft's vpn that would be useful. But all that seems hidden away in > their awful script. Awhile back I was at a gig that had a .doc file loosely describing the steps they wanted taken after each new Linux install, and I made a point that the document would be much more precise and better-tested and take less time if it was a plain text file starting with #!/bin/sh. Since they're giving you a script and not an executable binary, you *do* have a text file you can read and find out what's supposed to be done (under at least a narrow set of common circumstances) to achieve a working install. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 12 00:17:01 2011 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 20:17:01 -0400 Subject: Anyone want some old Commodore Monitors. Message-ID: <1315786621.16148.68.camel@jimslaptop> I have 5 working Commodore video monitors I want to get rid of. http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaniber/3027892522/ These are great in that they accept standard video input. I've used them in video art installations. Would prefer to get rid of the lot. Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 12 18:25:27 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 14:25:27 -0400 Subject: Anyone want some old Commodore Monitors. In-Reply-To: <1315786621.16148.68.camel@jimslaptop> References: <1315786621.16148.68.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: <20110912182527.GL15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 08:17:01PM -0400, jim wrote: > I have 5 working Commodore video monitors I want to get rid of. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaniber/3027892522/ These are great in > that they accept standard video input. I've used them in video art > installations. Would prefer to get rid of the lot. Ah the 1702. I always much prefered the 1084S, but it was a lot newer and way more useful to Amiga users. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tom-P9LCsnxcr+NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 12 19:11:38 2011 From: tom-P9LCsnxcr+NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Tom Low-Shang) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 15:11:38 -0400 Subject: Anyone want some old Commodore Monitors. In-Reply-To: <1315786621.16148.68.camel@jimslaptop> References: <1315786621.16148.68.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: <20110912191137.GC3079@goblin.lowshang.com> On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 08:17:01PM -0400, jim wrote: > I have 5 working Commodore video monitors I want to get rid of. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaniber/3027892522/ These are great in > that they accept standard video input. I've used them in video art > installations. Would prefer to get rid of the lot. > Jim I suggest you post it on the TPUG supermarket forum[1] if you can't find any takers here. I just got rid of all my Amiga stuff using the forum. [1] http://tpug.ca/forums/index.php -- Tom Low-Shang 416 857 7013 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 12 23:58:59 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:58:59 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... Message-ID: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> After persistant hangs and errors in one of my computers, I took out all the added memory and the gigabyte ethernet cards, reverting to some old DDR memory and the on-board via-rhine LAN. The memory has worked well. But I'm still having an occasional problem with ssh transfers -- specifically, when I transfer lots of files (no one of which is all that large), at some indeterminate point in the process, it just hangs. Before I blamed it on the gigabyte ethernet cards. But the on-board LAN is just a 10/100 connection. And I get it even when the computer is doing sending, not just when it's receiving. So where's the problem? Is it ssh or is it the ethernet card? It seems improbable that three distinct kernel drivers (two for the gigabyte cards and one for the on-board LAN) are each buggy in the same way. But google as I might, I don't find anything about ssh failing after, ohh, 8000 files or so. It has had problems with extremely large files, but that doesn't seem to be what's going on here. I set ssh verbosity to VERBOSE in the logfiles, and I get nothing. It just stops. Buggy hardware on the motherboard? Seems like it could be some kind of cache memory that fills up... I really have no clue at this point. All suggestions welcome. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 00:18:43 2011 From: alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 00:18:43 +0000 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> Message-ID: <1426242581-1315873125-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1799606992-@b5.c8.bise6.blackberry> TXkgZmlyc3QgcXVlc3Rpb24gd291bGQgYmUgd2hldGhlciB5b3UndmUgdGVzdGVkIHRoZSBuZXR3 b3JrIGNvbm5lY3Rpb24gdGhyb3VnaCBhbm90aGVyIG1lYW5zIHdoZW4gdGhlIFNTSCB0cmFuc2Zl ciBoYW5ncy4gSS5lLiBQdWxsIHVwIGEgd2ViIGJyb3dzZXIgb24gdGhlIG1hY2hpbmUgYW5kIGFj Y2VzcyBhbiBJbnRlcm5ldCBsb2NhdGlvbi4NCg0KSWYgdGhlIG5ldHdvcmsgY29ubmVjdGlvbiBp dHNlbGYgaXMgZG93biwgb2J2aW91c2x5IHRoZSBjdWxwcml0IGlzIHRoZSBuZXR3b3JrIGNhcmQu DQoNCkhhdmUgeW91IHRyaWVkIHdpdGggYSBzbWFsbGVyIG51bWJlciBvZiBmaWxlcz8gU2F5IDcw MDAgaW5zdGVhZCBvZiA4MDAwPw0KDQpJJ20gbm90IGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSB2b2x1bWUgbGltaXRz IHJlbGF0ZWQgdG8gU1NIIHNwZWNpZmljYWxseSwgYnV0IHlvdSBjb3VsZCB0cnkgc2VlaW5nIGlm IGl0IGFsd2F5cyBmYWlscyBhdCBhIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgZmlsZSwgb3IgYWZ0ZXIgYSBzcGVjaWZp YyBudW1iZXIgb2YgZmlsZXMgdHJhbnNmZXJyZWQuDQoNClRoaXMgc291bmRzIG1vcmUgbGlrZSBh biBpc3N1ZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBoYXJkd2FyZSBpdHNlbGYgYXMgb3Bwb3NlZCB0byB0aGUgc29mdHdh cmUsIHJlYWxseS4NCg0KSSdtIHN1cmUgb25lIG9mIHRoZSBvdGhlciwgdmFzdGx5IG1vcmUgZXhw ZXJpZW5jZWQgcGVvcGxlIG9uIGhlcmUgd2lsbCBiZSBvZiBtb3JlIGhlbHAsIGJ1dCBJIGZpZ3Vy ZWQgSSdkIHNlbmQgb2ZmIHdoYXQgY2FtZSB0byBtaW5kIGFzIHdheXMgdG8gdHJvdWJsZXNob290 IHRoZSBpc3N1ZS4NCkFsZXggR2FicmllbA0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgQmxhY2tCZXJyeSBkZXZp Y2Ugb24gdGhlIFJvZ2VycyBXaXJlbGVzcyBOZXR3b3JrDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2Fn ZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBQZXRlciBLaW5nIDxwZXRlci5raW5nLjFAZ21haWwuY29tPg0KU2VuZGVy OiBvd25lci10bHVnQHNzLm9yZw0KRGF0ZTogTW9uLCAxMiBTZXAgMjAxMSAxOTo1ODo1OSANClRv OiA8dGx1Z0Bzcy5vcmc+DQpSZXBseS1UbzogdGx1Z0Bzcy5vcmdTdWJqZWN0OiBbVExVR106IHNz aC9ldGhlcm5ldCBoYW5naW5nLi4uDQoNCkFmdGVyIHBlcnNpc3RhbnQgaGFuZ3MgYW5kIGVycm9y cyBpbiBvbmUgb2YgbXkgY29tcHV0ZXJzLCBJIHRvb2sgb3V0IGFsbCB0aGUNCmFkZGVkIG1lbW9y eSBhbmQgdGhlIGdpZ2FieXRlIGV0aGVybmV0IGNhcmRzLCByZXZlcnRpbmcgdG8gc29tZSBvbGQg RERSIG1lbW9yeQ0KYW5kIHRoZSBvbi1ib2FyZCB2aWEtcmhpbmUgTEFOLiAgVGhlIG1lbW9yeSBo YXMgd29ya2VkIHdlbGwuIEJ1dCBJJ20gc3RpbGwgaGF2aW5nDQphbiBvY2Nhc2lvbmFsIHByb2Js ZW0gd2l0aCBzc2ggdHJhbnNmZXJzIC0tIHNwZWNpZmljYWxseSwgd2hlbiBJIHRyYW5zZmVyIGxv dHMgb2YNCmZpbGVzIChubyBvbmUgb2Ygd2hpY2ggaXMgYWxsIHRoYXQgbGFyZ2UpLCBhdCBzb21l IGluZGV0ZXJtaW5hdGUgcG9pbnQgaW4gdGhlIA0KcHJvY2VzcywgaXQganVzdCBoYW5ncy4NCg0K QmVmb3JlIEkgYmxhbWVkIGl0IG9uIHRoZSBnaWdhYnl0ZSBldGhlcm5ldCBjYXJkcy4gQnV0IHRo ZSBvbi1ib2FyZCBMQU4gaXMganVzdA0KYSAxMC8xMDAgY29ubmVjdGlvbi4gQW5kIEkgZ2V0IGl0 IGV2ZW4gd2hlbiB0aGUgY29tcHV0ZXIgaXMgZG9pbmcgc2VuZGluZywgbm90DQpqdXN0IHdoZW4g aXQncyByZWNlaXZpbmcuIFNvIHdoZXJlJ3MgdGhlIHByb2JsZW0/IElzIGl0IHNzaCBvciBpcyBp dCB0aGUgZXRoZXJuZXQNCmNhcmQ/IEl0IHNlZW1zIGltcHJvYmFibGUgdGhhdCB0aHJlZSBkaXN0 aW5jdCBrZXJuZWwgZHJpdmVycyAodHdvIGZvciB0aGUgZ2lnYWJ5dGUNCmNhcmRzIGFuZCBvbmUg Zm9yIHRoZSBvbi1ib2FyZCBMQU4pIGFyZSBlYWNoIGJ1Z2d5IGluIHRoZSBzYW1lIHdheS4gQnV0 IGdvb2dsZSBhcw0KSSBtaWdodCwgSSBkb24ndCBmaW5kIGFueXRoaW5nIGFib3V0IHNzaCBmYWls aW5nIGFmdGVyLCBvaGgsIDgwMDAgZmlsZXMgb3Igc28uIEl0DQpoYXMgaGFkIHByb2JsZW1zIHdp dGggZXh0cmVtZWx5IGxhcmdlIGZpbGVzLCBidXQgdGhhdCBkb2Vzbid0IHNlZW0gdG8gYmUgd2hh dCdzDQpnb2luZyBvbiBoZXJlLg0KDQpJIHNldCBzc2ggdmVyYm9zaXR5IHRvIFZFUkJPU0UgaW4g dGhlIGxvZ2ZpbGVzLCBhbmQgSSBnZXQgbm90aGluZy4gSXQganVzdCBzdG9wcy4NCg0KQnVnZ3kg aGFyZHdhcmUgb24gdGhlIG1vdGhlcmJvYXJkPyBTZWVtcyBsaWtlIGl0IGNvdWxkIGJlIHNvbWUg a2luZCBvZiBjYWNoZSBtZW1vcnkNCnRoYXQgZmlsbHMgdXAuLi4gSSByZWFsbHkgaGF2ZSBubyBj bHVlIGF0IHRoaXMgcG9pbnQuIEFsbCBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucyB3ZWxjb21lLg0KDQotLSANClBldGVy IEtpbmcJCQkgCXBldGVyLmtpbmdAdXRvcm9udG8uY2ENCkRlcGFydG1lbnQgb2YgUGhpbG9zb3Bo eQ0KMTcwIFN0LiBHZW9yZ2UgU3RyZWV0ICM1MjENClRoZSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IG9mIFRvcm9udG8J CSAgICAoNDE2KS05NzgtNDk1MSBvZmMNClRvcm9udG8sIE9OICBNNVIgMk04DQogICAgICAgQ0FO QURBDQoNCmh0dHA6Ly9pbmRpdmlkdWFsLnV0b3JvbnRvLmNhL3BraW5nLw0KDQo9PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09DQpHUEcga2V5SUQgMHg3NTg3RUM0MiAoMkIxNCBBMzU1IDQ2QkMgMkExNiBEMEJDICAz NkY1IDFGRTYgRDMyQSA3NTg3IEVDNDIpDQpncGcgLS1rZXlzZXJ2ZXIgcGdwLm1pdC5lZHUgLS1y ZWN2LWtleXMgNzU4N0VDNDINCg0K -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 00:42:32 2011 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:42:32 +1000 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <1426242581-1315873125-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1799606992--YAKIAPh+Oao4vsPaiwzJqZmehUVaWg7C@public.gmane.org> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> <1426242581-1315873125-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1799606992-@b5.c8.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: Plus, I thought that's a know risk with ssh file transfers, which is why its advisable to use rsync to transfer many/big files. Also, do you have ssh keys setup? That might help. On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 10:18 AM, wrote: > My first question would be whether you've tested the network connection > through another means when the SSH transfer hangs. I.e. Pull up a web > browser on the machine and access an Internet location. > > If the network connection itself is down, obviously the culprit is the > network card. > > Have you tried with a smaller number of files? Say 7000 instead of 8000? > > I'm not aware of any volume limits related to SSH specifically, but you > could try seeing if it always fails at a particular file, or after a > specific number of files transferred. > > This sounds more like an issue with the hardware itself as opposed to the > software, really. > > I'm sure one of the other, vastly more experienced people on here will be > of more help, but I figured I'd send off what came to mind as ways to > troubleshoot the issue. > Alex Gabriel > > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter King > Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:58:59 > To: > Reply-To: tlug-CXWQD4r8zi01MepVCCEwxg at public.gmane.org: [TLUG]: ssh/ethernet hanging... > > After persistant hangs and errors in one of my computers, I took out all > the > added memory and the gigabyte ethernet cards, reverting to some old DDR > memory > and the on-board via-rhine LAN. The memory has worked well. But I'm still > having > an occasional problem with ssh transfers -- specifically, when I transfer > lots of > files (no one of which is all that large), at some indeterminate point in > the > process, it just hangs. > > Before I blamed it on the gigabyte ethernet cards. But the on-board LAN is > just > a 10/100 connection. And I get it even when the computer is doing sending, > not > just when it's receiving. So where's the problem? Is it ssh or is it the > ethernet > card? It seems improbable that three distinct kernel drivers (two for the > gigabyte > cards and one for the on-board LAN) are each buggy in the same way. But > google as > I might, I don't find anything about ssh failing after, ohh, 8000 files or > so. It > has had problems with extremely large files, but that doesn't seem to be > what's > going on here. > > I set ssh verbosity to VERBOSE in the logfiles, and I get nothing. It just > stops. > > Buggy hardware on the motherboard? Seems like it could be some kind of > cache memory > that fills up... I really have no clue at this point. All suggestions > welcome. > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 00:48:18 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:48:18 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <1426242581-1315873125-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1799606992--YAKIAPh+Oao4vsPaiwzJqZmehUVaWg7C@public.gmane.org> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> <1426242581-1315873125-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1799606992-@b5.c8.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <20110913004818.GA24963@amber> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 12:18:43AM +0000, alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org wrote: > My first question would be whether you've tested the network connection through another means when the SSH transfer hangs. I.e. Pull up a web browser on the machine and access an Internet location. > If the network connection itself is down, obviously the culprit is the network card. The network connection goes down. So I guess it's the cards -- all three of them. > Have you tried with a smaller number of files? Say 7000 instead of 8000? Smaller transfers are fine; it doesn't blink at several hundred, surely. > I'm not aware of any volume limits related to SSH specifically, but you could try seeing if it always fails at a particular file, or after a specific number of files transferred. It seems to vary with the number. I've tried different sets of files and I get the hang after some number. Don't know if it's the same number -- but it definitely isn't the same file. > This sounds more like an issue with the hardware itself as opposed to the software, really. Yes, it does. Where? Not in the cards (since it happens with several) or in the drivers (for the same reason) -- so I'm tempted to suspect something somewhere else in the system, such as an onboard cache or some buffer memory that gradually gets filled up. But those are the purest speculation. I don't remember having any such issues with this computer the last time it was in general service, which is now a few years ago. (In the meantime it's been doing simple print/samba server duty at home.) Maybe I should just retire the old hardware. But perhaps there is something that can be done... -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 01:01:39 2011 From: alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 21:01:39 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <20110913004818.GA24963@amber> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> <1426242581-1315873125-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1799606992-@b5.c8.bise6.blackberry> <20110913004818.GA24963@amber> Message-ID: <001301cc71b0$b327bb10$19773130$@com> Hmm...that's a bit of an odd problem, then. What distro/kernel combination are you running on that particular machine? If you can, I'd say try the transfers through a live CD to rule out the kernel's network module as a problem. KNOPPIX comes to mind as a good one to try for that. (Yes, I know that will take a while, but, it's worth trying, in my opinion.) I'm not a networking guru by any stretch, especially when it comes to Linux, but I did locate the following site that may be of use to you: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-tcp-tuning/ Alex Gabriel Dimensia Design Studio alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Peter King Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 8:48 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: ssh/ethernet hanging... On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 12:18:43AM +0000, alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org wrote: > My first question would be whether you've tested the network connection through another means when the SSH transfer hangs. I.e. Pull up a web browser on the machine and access an Internet location. > If the network connection itself is down, obviously the culprit is the network card. The network connection goes down. So I guess it's the cards -- all three of them. > Have you tried with a smaller number of files? Say 7000 instead of 8000? Smaller transfers are fine; it doesn't blink at several hundred, surely. > I'm not aware of any volume limits related to SSH specifically, but you could try seeing if it always fails at a particular file, or after a specific number of files transferred. It seems to vary with the number. I've tried different sets of files and I get the hang after some number. Don't know if it's the same number -- but it definitely isn't the same file. > This sounds more like an issue with the hardware itself as opposed to the software, really. Yes, it does. Where? Not in the cards (since it happens with several) or in the drivers (for the same reason) -- so I'm tempted to suspect something somewhere else in the system, such as an onboard cache or some buffer memory that gradually gets filled up. But those are the purest speculation. I don't remember having any such issues with this computer the last time it was in general service, which is now a few years ago. (In the meantime it's been doing simple print/samba server duty at home.) Maybe I should just retire the old hardware. But perhaps there is something that can be done... -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 03:37:58 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> Message-ID: | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Buggy hardware on the motherboard? Seems like it could be some kind of cache memory | that fills up... I really have no clue at this point. All suggestions welcome. The hardware is old. Stand back and decide if debugging this is worth your time. I know that I am guilty of chasing some problems too long. You seem to be doing everything right: changing one thing at a time and retesting. My recommendation would be to think of more things to change. For example, try an old distro. It may be that support for your old hardware has broken in recent distros and nobody has noticed because nobody uses it (or those that do are too lazy to report problems). For example, try another thing to stress the network. Like FTP perhaps. (I imagine nc could be useful but I don't really know it.) If you can boil it down to a really simple stress test that narrows the field. For example, go into the BIOS and reset all settings to the factory default (unless you know why they are set differently). Bad power supplies sometimes produce mysterious symptoms. Disconnect anything that isn't needed for the test. Consider even reducing the RAM complement to the minimum. Consider passing in odd kernel parameters that turn off magic features. Eg. noacpi. Sorry, I don't have a good list for you to try. Maybe someone else does. Lennart? Change the network topology? Add, remove, or exchange switches? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 06:04:26 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:04:26 -0700 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> Message-ID: What's the load like during transfer? We had one machine that had major load during scp, and it was NOT a timid box at all hardware-wise. On Sep 12, 2011 4:59 PM, "Peter King" wrote: > After persistant hangs and errors in one of my computers, I took out all the > added memory and the gigabyte ethernet cards, reverting to some old DDR memory > and the on-board via-rhine LAN. The memory has worked well. But I'm still having > an occasional problem with ssh transfers -- specifically, when I transfer lots of > files (no one of which is all that large), at some indeterminate point in the > process, it just hangs. > > Before I blamed it on the gigabyte ethernet cards. But the on-board LAN is just > a 10/100 connection. And I get it even when the computer is doing sending, not > just when it's receiving. So where's the problem? Is it ssh or is it the ethernet > card? It seems improbable that three distinct kernel drivers (two for the gigabyte > cards and one for the on-board LAN) are each buggy in the same way. But google as > I might, I don't find anything about ssh failing after, ohh, 8000 files or so. It > has had problems with extremely large files, but that doesn't seem to be what's > going on here. > > I set ssh verbosity to VERBOSE in the logfiles, and I get nothing. It just stops. > > Buggy hardware on the motherboard? Seems like it could be some kind of cache memory > that fills up... I really have no clue at this point. All suggestions welcome. > > -- > Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 > CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 09:59:10 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 05:59:10 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> Message-ID: <4E6F296E.7030102@rogers.com> Peter King wrote: > Buggy hardware on the motherboard? Seems like it could be some kind of cache memory > that fills up... I really have no clue at this point. All suggestions welcome. > > Run memtest for a long while, to see if there are problems with the memory or mom board. It could be something is flakey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 10:01:13 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 06:01:13 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <20110913004818.GA24963@amber> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> <1426242581-1315873125-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1799606992-@b5.c8.bise6.blackberry> <20110913004818.GA24963@amber> Message-ID: <4E6F29E9.7030402@rogers.com> Peter King wrote: > The network connection goes down. So I guess it's the cards -- all three of them. > Might also be a switch or cable issue. Run Wireshark to see if you're getting errors on the network. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 15:05:05 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:05:05 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> Message-ID: <20110913150505.GM15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:37:58PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The hardware is old. Stand back and decide if debugging this is worth > your time. I know that I am guilty of chasing some problems too long. > > You seem to be doing everything right: changing one thing at a time > and retesting. > > My recommendation would be to think of more things to change. > > For example, try an old distro. It may be that support for your old > hardware has broken in recent distros and nobody has noticed because > nobody uses it (or those that do are too lazy to report problems). > > For example, try another thing to stress the network. Like FTP > perhaps. (I imagine nc could be useful but I don't really know it.) > If you can boil it down to a really simple stress test that narrows > the field. > > For example, go into the BIOS and reset all settings to the factory > default (unless you know why they are set differently). > > Bad power supplies sometimes produce mysterious symptoms. > > Disconnect anything that isn't needed for the test. Consider even > reducing the RAM complement to the minimum. > > Consider passing in odd kernel parameters that turn off magic > features. Eg. noacpi. Sorry, I don't have a good list for you to > try. Maybe someone else does. Lennart? No, I have no idea what would make scp stop. Does rsync work? Does the target run low on disk space (I have seen reiserfs3 grind to a halt when nearing 100% full but not quite there. Things just took forever but didn't fail because it wasn't quite full yet). > Change the network topology? Add, remove, or exchange switches? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 17:13:52 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 13:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <20110913150505.GM15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> <20110913150505.GM15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:37:58PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Consider passing in odd kernel parameters that turn off magic | > features. Eg. noacpi. Sorry, I don't have a good list for you to | > try. Maybe someone else does. Lennart? | | No, I have no idea what would make scp stop. Actually, I was wondering if you had a nice set of suggested magic kernel parameters to try. | Does the target run low on disk space (I have seen reiserfs3 grind to | a halt when nearing 100% full but not quite there. Things just took | forever but didn't fail because it wasn't quite full yet). Very good point. I've had Linux behave mysteriously bad when / gets full (and perhaps other filesystems like /var). Not the first thing I check, but it should be. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 05:27:37 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 01:27:37 -0400 Subject: [OT] Wisdom of Crowds Message-ID: This is an absolutely fascinating book. He mentions the development of Linux as an example of the idea that a sufficiently large and diverse enough 'crowd' is more intelligent than the most expert among them. Really worth reading, with _amazing_ examples of crowdsourcing solutions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds It's available on Amazon for the Kindle, if you are so enabled :) -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 18:30:35 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:30:35 -0400 Subject: [OT] Wisdom of Crowds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110913183035.GA18923@watson-wilson.ca> I read somewhere about how this could be used to run corporations instead of 'C' officers. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 18:34:19 2011 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:34:19 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> <20110913150505.GM15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E6FA22B.3070801@dinamis.com> On 09/13/2011 01:13 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Very good point. I've had Linux behave mysteriously bad when / gets > full (and perhaps other filesystems like /var). Not the first thing I > check, but it should be. An OpenVZ container on which I'm setting up an anti-spam/anti-virus gateway just ran out of inodes. Peter, check df -i. I've also had strange behaviour like you're describing with disk problems. I was getting mysterious and random hard crashes. The culprit turned out to be the disk drive. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 20:06:20 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:06:20 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <4E6FA22B.3070801-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> <20110913150505.GM15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E6FA22B.3070801@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20110913200620.GA31268@amber> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 02:34:19PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 09/13/2011 01:13 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > Very good point. I've had Linux behave mysteriously bad when / gets > > full (and perhaps other filesystems like /var). Not the first thing I > > check, but it should be. Both filesystems -- being written from and being written to -- have plenty of space left. Linux gets peculiar when you get near 95% full, but both the source and target filesystems were at less than 60%. > An OpenVZ container on which I'm setting up an anti-spam/anti-virus > gateway just ran out of inodes. Peter, check df -i. That's a clever thought! But df -i tells me that I have no more than 15% usage of the inodes. So that doesn't seem to be it either. > I've also had strange behaviour like you're describing with disk > problems. I was getting mysterious and random hard crashes. The culprit > turned out to be the disk drive. Could be. I'll run some tests on the drives in question; I suppose a hiccup on one of them could produce the rsync / ssh "freeze" in question. But there isn't any trace in the logfiles of disk error. Time to run some read/write tests. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 20:08:25 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:08:25 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> Message-ID: <20110913200825.GB31268@amber> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:04:26PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > What's the load like during transfer? We had one machine that had major > load during scp, and it was NOT a timid box at all hardware-wise. The load runs up between 1.00 and 2.00, usually somewhere around 1.38. Enough to slow other processes down, but not to stop them. Back when there were some memory problems as well I had a runaway process that got up to 27.00 before I pulled the plug on it, but those problems seem to be long gone. Puzzling. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 20:12:17 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:12:17 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <4E6F296E.7030102-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> <4E6F296E.7030102@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110913201217.GC31268@amber> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 05:59:10AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Run memtest for a long while, to see if there are problems with the > memory or mom board. It could be something is flakey. That's good advice, especially since this board has had troubles with new memory just recently. Perhaps it never really recovered. It turns out that if you search on ASUS A7V8X-X, there are loads of complaints about just how sensitive it is to memory types, and how the production run quality is very uneven -- one person had eight or nine boards running, and two were terribly flaky as regards memory whereas the other six or seven were not... So even when the MB was new it wasn't a clear winner, it seems, and aging probably hasn't improved it. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 20:18:59 2011 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:18:59 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <20110913201217.GC31268@amber> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> <4E6F296E.7030102@rogers.com> <20110913201217.GC31268@amber> Message-ID: <4E6FBAB3.2030001@dinamis.com> On 09/13/2011 04:12 PM, Peter King wrote: > On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 05:59:10AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Run memtest for a long while, to see if there are problems with the >> memory or mom board. It could be something is flakey. > > That's good advice, especially since this board has had troubles with new > memory just recently. Perhaps it never really recovered. It turns out that > if you search on ASUS A7V8X-X, there are loads of complaints about just how > sensitive it is to memory types, and how the production run quality is very > uneven -- one person had eight or nine boards running, and two were terribly > flaky as regards memory whereas the other six or seven were not... So even > when the MB was new it wasn't a clear winner, it seems, and aging probably > hasn't improved it. If it's from the faulty capacitor era, that too could be causing weird problems. We had a Dell server that was doing random reboots which was finally resolved only after Dell eventually replaced the motherboard. We'd been through power supply, RAM, and CPU. In short, there wasn't much left to replace other than the disk drives and motherboard and the latter did the trick. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 20:21:38 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:21:38 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> Message-ID: <20110913202138.GD31268@amber> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:37:58PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > For example, try an old distro. It may be that support for your old > hardware has broken in recent distros and nobody has noticed because > nobody uses it (or those that do are too lazy to report problems). > > For example, try another thing to stress the network. Like FTP > perhaps. (I imagine nc could be useful but I don't really know it.) > If you can boil it down to a really simple stress test that narrows > the field. > > For example, go into the BIOS and reset all settings to the factory > default (unless you know why they are set differently). > > Bad power supplies sometimes produce mysterious symptoms. > > Disconnect anything that isn't needed for the test. Consider even > reducing the RAM complement to the minimum. > > Consider passing in odd kernel parameters that turn off magic > features. Eg. noacpi. Sorry, I don't have a good list for you to > try. Maybe someone else does. Lennart? All good suggestions. I think I'll run memtest for a day or two to make sure that there aren't problems there, and if it passes memtest then move on to the rest of the system: BIOS reset, stripping drives and parts, the usual isolation testing. Even if it is older hardware, it isn't *that* old: Motherboard: ASUS A7V8X-X Processor: AMD Athlon XP 2800+ Memory: DDR 333 (PC 2700), 1GB Network: ADMtek NC100 Network Everywhere (tulip.o) [after onboard via-rhine, e1000, and another gigabit NIC] Video card: Radeon HD 3650 Heck, I have a dual Pentium-II computer that still works perfectly. And my Sun UltraSparc 1E only quit because the battery *which is soldered to the motherboard* (!!!) finally died. Sometimes I do feel like I'm running the computer version of a retirement home, but this is one of the younger and more vigorous specimens. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 22:01:53 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:01:53 -0400 Subject: Dynamically activate an iSCSI partition/Logical Volume Message-ID: Good evening, william:~# cat /etc/issue Debian GNU/Linux squeeze/sid \n \l william:~# uname -a Linux willow 2.6.34.109jul-kv #4 Thu Mar 3 16:56:45 EST 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux william:~# dpkg -l | grep iscsi ii iscsitarget 1.4.20.1-3 iSCSI Enterprise Target userland tools ii iscsitarget-module-2.6.34.109jul-kv 1.4.20.1-3+2.6.34.109jul-kv-10.00.Custom iSCSI Enterprise Target module for Linux (ke ii iscsitarget-source 1.4.20.1-3 iSCSI Enterprise Target kernel module source ii open-iscsi 2.0.871.3-2 High performance, transport independent iSCS I have an iSCSI system that I am trying to add another partition. All is set and all that remain is to restart the iSCSI system, but that is not likely as it would mess up all the systems connected to the iSCSI array. Say, one way or the other, I have to enable this dynamically without restarting iSCSI. I have this as a volume group --- Logical volume --- LV Name /dev/FileShares/research VG Name FileShares LV UUID qBK8Kf-1L1L-tO4V-1EFA-E5PY-Un84-7zuyK6 LV Write Access read/write LV Status available # open 0 LV Size 60.00 GiB Current LE 15360 Segments 1 Allocation inherit Read ahead sectors auto - currently set to 256 Block device 254:38 >From this link, this can be done as follows: http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/45/idpl/15168629/numer/8/nazwa/ietadm ========== Quote: --op new --tid=[id] --lun=[lun] --params Path=[path] add a new logical unit with [lun] to specifictarget with [id]. The logical unit is offeredto the initiators. [path] must be block device files(including LVM and RAID devices) or regular files. End quote: ============== So, for my case, I am assuming I should have it as follows, ietadm --op new --lun=qBK8Kf-1L1L-tO4V-1EFA-E5PY-Un84-7zuyK6 --params Path=/dev/FileShares/research Is this correct? Has anybody done it in the past? I am just having a problem mapping --lun=[lun] --params Path=[path] to my problem and need confirmation from someone experienced. Would really appreciate any guidance Good evening and thanks in advance William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 13 22:59:08 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 18:59:08 -0400 Subject: ssh/ethernet hanging... In-Reply-To: <20110913202138.GD31268@amber> References: <20110912235859.GA24820@amber> <20110913202138.GD31268@amber> Message-ID: <20110913225908.GN15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 04:21:38PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > All good suggestions. I think I'll run memtest for a day or two to make > sure that there aren't problems there, and if it passes memtest then > move on to the rest of the system: BIOS reset, stripping drives and parts, > the usual isolation testing. Even if it is older hardware, it isn't *that* > old: > > Motherboard: ASUS A7V8X-X > Processor: AMD Athlon XP 2800+ > Memory: DDR 333 (PC 2700), 1GB > Network: ADMtek NC100 Network Everywhere (tulip.o) > [after onboard via-rhine, e1000, and another gigabit NIC] > Video card: Radeon HD 3650 > > Heck, I have a dual Pentium-II computer that still works perfectly. And my > Sun UltraSparc 1E only quit because the battery *which is soldered to the > motherboard* (!!!) finally died. Sometimes I do feel like I'm running the > computer version of a retirement home, but this is one of the younger and > more vigorous specimens. I have an SGI that died from dead battery. I unsoldered it, and put some wires on and taped a new battery of the right voltage to it. Works fine. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 04:54:28 2011 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 00:54:28 -0400 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? Message-ID: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi all, Is there a way to make an IP address outside the 127.x.x.x range (say, 192.168.56.101) map back to your own machine when accessed from your own machine, as if it were another alias for localhost? I'd like this to happen only on my own machine, and not interfere with anyone else's use of said IP address on the local network. This is for testing purposes only. I've been poring over the documentation for route, arp, tun/tap, etc., but don't have a deep enough understanding of Linux networking to know where to begin. Thanks, Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 04:57:53 2011 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 07:57:53 +0300 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there a way to make an IP address outside the 127.x.x.x range (say, > 192.168.56.101) map back to your own machine when accessed from your own > machine, as if it were another alias for localhost? I'd like this to happen > only on my own machine, and not interfere with anyone else's use of said IP > address on the local network. This is for testing purposes only. > > I've been poring over the documentation for route, arp, tun/tap, etc., but > don't have a deep enough understanding of Linux networking to know where to > begin. > > Thanks, > Amanda > I guess you only have to put a line in /etc/hosts like: 192.168.56.101 localhost -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 05:07:01 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 01:07:01 -0400 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4E703675.9050202@ss.org> On 09/14/2011 12:57 AM, Ori Idan wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Amanda Yilmaz > wrote: > > Hi all, > > Is there a way to make an IP address outside the 127.x.x.x range > (say, 192.168.56.101) map back to your own machine when accessed > from your own machine, as if it were another alias for localhost? > I'd like this to happen only on my own machine, and not interfere > with anyone else's use of said IP address on the local network. > This is for testing purposes only. > > I've been poring over the documentation for route, arp, tun/tap, > etc., but don't have a deep enough understanding of Linux > networking to know where to begin. > > Thanks, > Amanda > > > I guess you only have to put a line in /etc/hosts like: > 192.168.56.101 localhost > > -- > Ori Idan > Alternatively you can actually add mulitple IPs to the loopback interface. I'm not sure the correct terminology for this is, but sure someone on list can explain it. (I could find a meaningful answer quickly in the man page. ifconfig lo:1 192.168.56.101 I've tested this on my machine and it works. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 05:12:46 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 01:12:46 -0400 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: <4E703675.9050202-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4E703675.9050202@ss.org> Message-ID: <4E7037CE.1050202@ss.org> On 09/14/2011 01:07 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 09/14/2011 12:57 AM, Ori Idan wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Amanda Yilmaz > > wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Is there a way to make an IP address outside the 127.x.x.x range >> (say, 192.168.56.101) map back to your own machine when accessed >> from your own machine, as if it were another alias for localhost? >> I'd like this to happen only on my own machine, and not interfere >> with anyone else's use of said IP address on the local network. >> This is for testing purposes only. >> >> I've been poring over the documentation for route, arp, tun/tap, >> etc., but don't have a deep enough understanding of Linux >> networking to know where to begin. >> >> Thanks, >> Amanda >> >> >> I guess you only have to put a line in /etc/hosts like: >> 192.168.56.101 localhost >> >> -- >> Ori Idan >> > > Alternatively you can actually add mulitple IPs to the loopback > interface. > I'm not sure the correct terminology for this is, but sure someone on > list can explain it. (I could find a meaningful answer quickly in the > man page. > > ifconfig lo:1 192.168.56.101 > > > I've tested this on my machine and it works. > Okay, no more answer questions when it's time to sleep. s/could/could not/ Anyways, the correct term seems to be Aliasing. http://www.g-loaded.eu/2005/11/05/assign-virtual-ips-to-your-nic/ I wanted to say vlan, but that's the eth0.1 (dot) notation. All the above does is create and alias on the loopback network device instead of on say eth0 as would more likely happen. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 05:15:27 2011 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:15:27 +0300 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: <4E7037CE.1050202-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4E703675.9050202@ss.org> <4E7037CE.1050202@ss.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 09/14/2011 01:07 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > >> On 09/14/2011 12:57 AM, Ori Idan wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Amanda Yilmaz >> ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Is there a way to make an IP address outside the 127.x.x.x range >>> (say, 192.168.56.101) map back to your own machine when accessed >>> from your own machine, as if it were another alias for localhost? >>> I'd like this to happen only on my own machine, and not interfere >>> with anyone else's use of said IP address on the local network. >>> This is for testing purposes only. >>> >>> I've been poring over the documentation for route, arp, tun/tap, >>> etc., but don't have a deep enough understanding of Linux >>> networking to know where to begin. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Amanda >>> >>> >>> I guess you only have to put a line in /etc/hosts like: 192.168.56.101 >>> localhost >>> >>> -- >>> Ori Idan >>> >>> >> Alternatively you can actually add mulitple IPs to the loopback interface. >> I'm not sure the correct terminology for this is, but sure someone on list >> can explain it. (I could find a meaningful answer quickly in the man page. >> >> ifconfig lo:1 192.168.56.101 >> >> >> I've tested this on my machine and it works. >> >> > > Okay, no more answer questions when it's time to sleep. s/could/could not/ > > Anyways, the correct term seems to be Aliasing. > http://www.g-loaded.eu/2005/**11/05/assign-virtual-ips-to-**your-nic/ > > I wanted to say vlan, but that's the eth0.1 (dot) notation. > > All the above does is create and alias on the loopback network device > instead of on say eth0 as would more likely happen. > > I thought it was strange to see someone from Canada answering at such an hour... I am now in Israel and for me it is 8:00 am :-) -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 07:12:38 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 03:12:38 -0400 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4E703675.9050202@ss.org> <4E7037CE.1050202@ss.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Ori Idan wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: >> >> On 09/14/2011 01:07 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: >>> >>> On 09/14/2011 12:57 AM, Ori Idan wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Amanda Yilmaz >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> ? ?Hi all, >>>> >>>> ? ?Is there a way to make an IP address outside the 127.x.x.x range >>>> ? ?(say, 192.168.56.101) map back to your own machine when accessed >>>> ? ?from your own machine, as if it were another alias for localhost? >>>> ? ?I'd like this to happen only on my own machine, and not interfere >>>> ? ?with anyone else's use of said IP address on the local network. >>>> ? ?This is for testing purposes only. >>>> >>>> ? ?I've been poring over the documentation for route, arp, tun/tap, >>>> ? ?etc., but don't have a deep enough understanding of Linux >>>> ? ?networking to know where to begin. >>>> >>>> ? ?Thanks, >>>> ? ?Amanda >>>> >>>> >>>> I guess you only have to put a line in /etc/hosts like: 192.168.56.101 >>>> ?localhost >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ori Idan >>>> >>> >>> Alternatively you can actually add mulitple IPs to the loopback >>> interface. >>> I'm not sure the correct terminology for this is, but sure someone on >>> list can explain it. (I could find a meaningful answer quickly in the man >>> page. >>> >>> ifconfig lo:1 192.168.56.101 >>> >>> >>> I've tested this on my machine and it works. >>> >> >> >> Okay, no more answer questions when it's time to sleep. s/could/could not/ >> >> Anyways, the correct term seems to be Aliasing. >> http://www.g-loaded.eu/2005/11/05/assign-virtual-ips-to-your-nic/ >> >> I wanted to say vlan, but that's the eth0.1 (dot) notation. >> >> All the above does is create and alias on the loopback network device >> instead of on say eth0 as would more likely happen. > > I thought it was strange to see someone from Canada answering at such an > hour... > I am now in Israel and for me it is 8:00 am :-) > > -- > Ori Idan Some of us have insomnia from time to time :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 10:11:30 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 06:11:30 -0400 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4E707DD2.8010001@rogers.com> Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there a way to make an IP address outside the 127.x.x.x range (say, 192.168.56.101) map back to your own machine when accessed from your own machine, as if it were another alias for localhost? I'd like this to happen only on my own machine, and not interfere with anyone else's use of said IP address on the local network. This is for testing purposes only. > > I've been poring over the documentation for route, arp, tun/tap, etc., but don't have a deep enough understanding of Linux networking to know where to begin. > > Thanks, > Amanda > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > If you access the other computer with a host name rather than IP address, then just add it to your /etc/hosts file. Normally, the hosts file is checked before going to a DNS server. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 10:52:00 2011 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 06:52:00 -0400 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1315997520.3821.4.camel@el-grande> On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 07:57 +0300, Ori Idan wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Amanda Yilmaz > wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there a way to make an IP address outside the 127.x.x.x > range (say, 192.168.56.101) map back to your own machine when > accessed from your own machine, as if it were another alias > for localhost? I'd like this to happen only on my own machine, > and not interfere with anyone else's use of said IP address on > the local network. This is for testing purposes only. > > I've been poring over the documentation for route, arp, > tun/tap, etc., but don't have a deep enough understanding of > Linux networking to know where to begin. > > Thanks, > Amanda > > I guess you only have to put a line in /etc/hosts like: 192.168.56.101 > localhost > > -- > Ori Idan > > > Actually this will not work. It will tell your computer that the IP of localhost is 192.168.56.101. Your computer will query the network, (probably via the default gateway) to look for the computer with this IP. It will not in any way associate this IP with itself. Aliasing as mentioned in other replies is the correct answer. cheers, darryl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 07:51:50 2011 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:51:50 +1000 (EST) Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Sep 2011, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there a way to make an IP address outside the 127.x.x.x range (say, > 192.168.56.101) map back to your own machine when accessed from your own > machine, as if it were another alias for localhost? I'd like this to > happen only on my own machine, and not interfere with anyone else's use > of said IP address on the local network. This is for testing purposes > only. > > I've been poring over the documentation for route, arp, tun/tap, etc., > but don't have a deep enough understanding of Linux networking to know > where to begin. It actually turns out to be pretty simple. I know there have been a few posts already. You can assign an additional IP address to an existing real network interface (eg, eth0). The traffic will not transmit on the NIC and will instead be dealt with locally (subject to firewall rules, etc). If you don't want to put it on a real NIC you can use the dummy kernel module to make a dummy network interface. Dummy interfaces have been around on Linux since the 90s. I know they still work as I used one recently. I know a few people have mentioned putting it on localhost but the dummy interface was considered better for reasons that I don't remember right now. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Director, Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 15:25:00 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:25:00 -0400 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20110914152500.GO15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:54:28AM -0400, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > Is there a way to make an IP address outside the 127.x.x.x range (say, 192.168.56.101) map back to your own machine when accessed from your own machine, as if it were another alias for localhost? I'd like this to happen only on my own machine, and not interfere with anyone else's use of said IP address on the local network. This is for testing purposes only. > > I've been poring over the documentation for route, arp, tun/tap, etc., but don't have a deep enough understanding of Linux networking to know where to begin. /etc/hosts for things done by DNS name. Otherwise, destination NAT using iptables is in order I think. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 17:21:45 2011 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 10:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1316020905.45302.YahooMailNeo@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> ?ifconfig eth0:0 192.168.56.101 ? --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: Amanda Yilmaz > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 12:54:28 AM > Subject: [TLUG]: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? > > Hi all, > > Is there a way to make an IP address outside the 127.x.x.x range (say, > 192.168.56.101) map back to your own machine when accessed from your own > machine, as if it were another alias for localhost? I'd like this to happen > only on my own machine, and not interfere with anyone else's use of said IP > address on the local network. This is for testing purposes only. > > I've been poring over the documentation for route, arp, tun/tap, etc., but > don't have a deep enough understanding of Linux networking to know where to > begin. > > Thanks, > Amanda > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 17:27:06 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 13:27:06 -0400 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: <1316020905.45302.YahooMailNeo-3lJy/A3v08D5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1316020905.45302.YahooMailNeo@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110914172706.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 10:21:45AM -0700, Fernando Duran wrote: > ?ifconfig eth0:0 192.168.56.101 But now everyone on the network WILL see you as that address which is exactly what was not wanted. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 18:25:57 2011 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 11:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: <20110914172706.GP15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1316020905.45302.YahooMailNeo@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20110914172706.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1316024757.5034.YahooMailNeo@web65403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Ooops, you are right, didn't read the whole thing, then what about make it: ifconfig lo:0 192.168.56.101 ? --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lennart Sorensen > To: tlug at ss.org > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 1:27:06 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 10:21:45AM -0700, Fernando Duran wrote: >> ?ifconfig eth0:0 192.168.56.101 > > But now everyone on the network WILL see you as that address which is > exactly what was not wanted. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 18:30:58 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:30:58 -0400 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: <1316024757.5034.YahooMailNeo-Yr0EqNg043r5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1316020905.45302.YahooMailNeo@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20110914172706.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1316024757.5034.YahooMailNeo@web65403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110914183058.GQ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:25:57AM -0700, Fernando Duran wrote: > Ooops, you are right, didn't read the whole thing, then what about make it: > > ifconfig lo:0 192.168.56.101 I worry linux would still answer arp requests from the real network. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 18:20:58 2011 From: jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jarl Stefansson) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:20:58 -0400 Subject: Router/FW hardware w. low power consumption and low price Message-ID: Yesterday some of us were talking about good hardware to run a linux based router/fw/etc on and I promised to share the following hardware name/specs with the list: Ubiquity RouterStation Pro Gigabit Ethernet Switch (4 ports, use VLANs to split them up) 720/800MHz CPU (Atheros AR7161 MIPS) 128MB RAM 16MB Flash USB 2.0 Support 3x mini pci $79 USD (without an enclosure or psu, can use PoE or DC 48V) http://www.ubnt.com/rspro At the time I thought it was ARM based but as you can see it's MIPS, however if you prefer ARM the following two should fit the bill with 4+ gigabit ports at around $100 Linksys/Cisco WRT350N v2 D-Link DIR-665 -- Regards, Jarl Stefansson jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org +1-647-869-6908 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 19:01:08 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 12:01:08 -0700 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? Message-ID: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp -d !127.0.0.0/8 -j REDIRECT My syntax may be a bit off, but that, should be close. You may also want a similar rule for UDP On Sep 13, 2011 9:55 PM, "Amanda Yilmaz" wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 20:45:43 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 16:45:43 -0400 Subject: Router/FW hardware w. low power consumption and low price In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110914204543.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 02:20:58PM -0400, Jarl Stefansson wrote: > Yesterday some of us were talking about good hardware to run a linux based > router/fw/etc on and I promised to share the following hardware name/specs > with the list: > > Ubiquity RouterStation Pro > Gigabit Ethernet Switch (4 ports, use VLANs to split them up) > 720/800MHz CPU (Atheros AR7161 MIPS) > 128MB RAM > 16MB Flash > USB 2.0 Support > 3x mini pci > $79 USD (without an enclosure or psu, can use PoE or DC 48V) > http://www.ubnt.com/rspro Those are rather neat boxes. Same CPU as the DIR-825 I like (except it runs 680MHz and has 64MB ram and 8MB flash and comes in a box with a power supply and wifi). > At the time I thought it was ARM based but as you can see it's MIPS, however > if you prefer ARM the following two should fit the bill with 4+ gigabit > ports at around $100 MIPS is nice too. > Linksys/Cisco WRT350N v2 > D-Link DIR-665 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 14 23:05:12 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 19:05:12 -0400 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: <1316024757.5034.YahooMailNeo-Yr0EqNg043r5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1316020905.45302.YahooMailNeo@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20110914172706.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1316024757.5034.YahooMailNeo@web65403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110914230512.GA3005@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:25:57AM -0700, Fernando Duran wrote: > Ooops, you are right, didn't read the whole thing, then what about > make it: > > ifconfig lo:0 192.168.56.101 What about routing table? Does 'ifconfig' automatically update it? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 15 12:48:47 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:48:47 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Flights are confirmed. Grant will arrive in Toronto on Friday night. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 15 15:06:00 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:06:00 -0400 Subject: Map non-127.x.x.x address back to own machine? In-Reply-To: <20110914230512.GA3005-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1315976068.11614.140258140888949@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1316020905.45302.YahooMailNeo@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20110914172706.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1316024757.5034.YahooMailNeo@web65403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20110914230512.GA3005@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110915150600.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 07:05:12PM -0400, William Park wrote: > What about routing table? Does 'ifconfig' automatically update it? No, the kernel automatically does. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 16 00:59:33 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:59:33 -0400 Subject: New Humanitarian FOSS Club at U of T Message-ID: This message was originally directed to CrisisCommons Toronto. Cross-posting here as they are specifically looking for interested folks from the wider Toronto area tech community. -- Forwarded Message -- Students , mostly from Computer Science so far but expanding, have started a club to organize events supporting HFOSS projects and get people more involved in events like CrisisCamps and RHoK. It is also an opportunity to give life to some great ideas and projects that created on the typical weekend events but really need more time to be fully developed. YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE A STUDENT OR ALUMNI TO JOIN! We've got students from first year to PhD candidates involved and great support from faculty too. It would be great to get some members from the broader Toronto tech community to get involved. It's a great place to build some mentoring relationships and meet some up-and- coming stars if you are ever hiring at your own companies. You can join the Google group uoft-hfoss-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw at public.gmane.org to keep up with happenings. Just send a request. And you are all welcome to come to the first meeting Friday Sept 15th at 4pm. It will be in the Bahen Centre (BCIT) 40 St.George St. Room 2179. -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 16 19:23:53 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 15:23:53 -0400 Subject: (question) Raid5 + Encryption -- which is first? In-Reply-To: <1315512010.3798.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOEA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1315512010.3798.YahooMailNeo@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110916192353.GA4940@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Sep 08, 2011 at 01:00:10PM -0700, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > If I want to encrypt a whole filesystem which is Raid5, do I make > Raid5 first and then mount it as "encrypted" partition?? (my guess is > yes). > > But, that begs question.? What if I add a device to Raid5?? Will it > be transparent to encryption layer, or will it screw it up? I tried it this morning, and it worked. - start with 3-device RAID5 - put encryption layer on top - increase to 4-device RAID5 - put encryption layer on top - increase filesystem to max And, I get back the filesystem with increased size. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 17 23:57:07 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 19:57:07 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer Message-ID: Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: -------------------------------------------------------------------- I visited Grant today. While I was expecting to see half a face of hamburger, it appears that the surgeons in Thailand did an excellent job with his skin, there are no nasty scars related to stitches and all. Unfortunately, I think he's gonna need a bit more bone sculpture to fix up some issues with his jaw and nose, but that being said, he looks fine. He is still unconscious, and the doctors are not able to pass judgement on when he will come around. I was able to get him to open his eye a bit by shaking his knee, and I swear I saw his heart rate change when his mom was talking to him. He is currently in ICU, where they are reviewing the doctor's notes from Thailand, and doing some of their own tests to try to get a firm grip on his condition. They say he may be moved to a regular room later this week. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 18 14:08:36 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 10:08:36 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 7:57 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I visited Grant today. > > While I was expecting to see half a face of hamburger, it appears that > the surgeons in Thailand did an excellent job with his skin, there are > no nasty scars related to stitches and all. > > Unfortunately, I think he's gonna need a bit more bone sculpture to > fix up some issues with his jaw and nose, but that being said, he > looks fine. > > He is still unconscious, and the doctors are not able to pass > judgement on when he will come around. > > I was able to get him to open his eye a bit by shaking his knee, and I > swear I saw his heart rate change when his mom was talking to him. > > He is currently in ICU, where they are reviewing the doctor's notes > from Thailand, and doing some of their own tests to try to get a firm > grip on his condition. > > They say he may be moved to a regular room later this week. > I did touch base with Jim Mercer re: visiting Grant in hospital. Word is that until Grant is out of the intensive care unit, visitors are (due to general restrictions in the ICU) NOT wanted. This will change once Grant is moved to a regular room (which as noted will hopefully be within a week). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 03:18:42 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 23:18:42 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer (Cinda is Jim Mercer's wife): -------------------------------------------------------------------- Cinda and I stopped in to see Grant today. After shaking his leg for a bit, and talking to him, he opened his eye and followed Cinda and me while we talked to him. Previously his eye was closed, and it seemed moving around like he was dreaming or something. He kept his eye open for about 5 minutes, and squeezed Cinda's hand while we chatted. He then closed his eye and seemed to go back to sleep. Enough excitement for one day, I guess. 8^) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 12:25:07 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 08:25:07 -0400 Subject: laser printer for school Message-ID: My daughter needs a printer for school. I'm looking for a smallish laser printer. I have an old laser jet 6p that seems to print forever on a cartridge. Is there anything out there like that ? Smaller, more modern, ie USB ? Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 13:36:45 2011 From: Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Alexander Short) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 09:36:45 -0400 Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There are cheaper options, but I think for $79, this is a stellar printer. Replacement toner (high yield) is 32 bucks on skinnymargins, it supports wifi, bonjour, duplexing (not manual) http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/brother-brother-wireless-laser-printer-hl-2270dw-hl-2270dw/10159748.aspx?path=9f817051e965ca11395f612258cc3434en02 Alex -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Dave Cramer Sent: September-19-11 8:25 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: laser printer for school My daughter needs a printer for school. I'm looking for a smallish laser printer. I have an old laser jet 6p that seems to print forever on a cartridge. Is there anything out there like that ? Smaller, more modern, ie USB ? Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 15:59:56 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:59:56 -0400 Subject: Samba with OSX Message-ID: Hello This is just a FYI. For months, I have been hunting for a random permission issue that I think I have finally found a solution. Just want to share, may help some one in the group in future. Samba version 3.2.5 Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 A little a bit about the set up. The samba server host both private and shared folders. User authentication is through openLDAP running on another box. The private share never have problems, but once in a while, I do get report that users in a group can not access a file that was created by one of the group member. On checking, I notice that samba has disregarded the share For example drwx------ 9 jroberts creative 146 2010-11-29 09:58 BBC Earth wallpapers As you can see, only Robert, who created this directory can now read/write to it despite the fact it should be owned by the whole group. That is odd since the share is set up as follows: [creative] path = /home/creative read only = no guest ok = no printable = no comment = File Share for creative team create mask = 0660 directory mask = 0660 force create mode = 0660 force directory mode = 0660 writable = yes browsable = yes preexec= "echo preexec %T u.g=%u.%g, U.G=%U.%G >> /root/samba_permission.log" -> Me trying to figure whats going on force group = creative valid users = @creative >From the above, you would assume samba would respect the create mode configuration, so it left me scratching my head when I saw the file with wrong permission. It turn out that if samba was set up with "unix extensions = yes", all the above is ignored and the client can use what ever permission it feels like to create the file. I have now disabled it, but the question is, why did samba provide this facility? Isn't it a security risk? I really do not get it. Anyway, I will see if it get better going forward Thanks and great week William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 16:27:46 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:27:46 -0400 Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110919162746.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 09:36:45AM -0400, Alexander Short wrote: > There are cheaper options, but I think for $79, this is a stellar printer. Replacement toner (high yield) is 32 bucks on skinnymargins, it supports wifi, bonjour, duplexing (not manual) > > http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/brother-brother-wireless-laser-printer-hl-2270dw-hl-2270dw/10159748.aspx?path=9f817051e965ca11395f612258cc3434en02 Hmm, openprinting.org lists it as: Brother HL2270DW Black & White laser printer, this is a Paperweight While brother supposedly has some linux drivers, they are a mess it seems. Certainly not a trivial printer for Linux users. Now for Windows users, it is probably fine. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 16:58:47 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:58:47 -0400 Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: <20110919162746.GT15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110919162746.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Just went to that site, it is offline ?? Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 09:36:45AM -0400, Alexander Short wrote: >> There are cheaper options, but I think for $79, this is a stellar printer. ?Replacement toner (high yield) is 32 bucks on skinnymargins, it supports wifi, bonjour, duplexing (not manual) >> >> http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/brother-brother-wireless-laser-printer-hl-2270dw-hl-2270dw/10159748.aspx?path=9f817051e965ca11395f612258cc3434en02 > > Hmm, openprinting.org lists it as: > > ? ? ? ?Brother HL2270DW > > ? ? ? ?Black & White laser printer, this is a Paperweight > > While brother supposedly has some linux drivers, they are a mess it seems. > Certainly not a trivial printer for Linux users. > > Now for Windows users, it is probably fine. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 17:30:24 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 13:30:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: References: <20110919162746.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Dave Cramer | Just went to that site, it is offline ?? Yes. For example, go to http://www.openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi and you will see a sad explanation of how the site (including LinuxFoundation.org, Linux.com, and their subdomains) are down due to a security breach. Since september 8. Perhaps archive.org's wayback machine can help. Perhaps not. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 17:39:13 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 13:39:13 -0400 Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: References: <20110919162746.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110919173913.GU15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 12:58:47PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > Just went to that site, it is offline ?? Yes. I used google cache. The linux foundation is cleaning up from a hack on their web servers. > Dave Cramer > VP Software Development > Visible Assets Inc. > www.visibleassets.com > > > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 09:36:45AM -0400, Alexander Short wrote: > >> There are cheaper options, but I think for $79, this is a stellar printer. ?Replacement toner (high yield) is 32 bucks on skinnymargins, it supports wifi, bonjour, duplexing (not manual) > >> > >> http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/brother-brother-wireless-laser-printer-hl-2270dw-hl-2270dw/10159748.aspx?path=9f817051e965ca11395f612258cc3434en02 > > > > Hmm, openprinting.org lists it as: > > > > ? ? ? ?Brother HL2270DW > > > > ? ? ? ?Black & White laser printer, this is a Paperweight > > > > While brother supposedly has some linux drivers, they are a mess it seems. > > Certainly not a trivial printer for Linux users. > > > > Now for Windows users, it is probably fine. > > > > -- > > Len Sorensen > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 21:17:36 2011 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason A. Spiro) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 17:17:36 -0400 Subject: Geeks and health (was: GTALUG Meeting on 13th September, 2011 at 7:30pm) Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 2:39 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: [snip] > * Why sitting for extended periods of time is killing you slowly. > * The relationship between stress, diet, sleep cycles and belly fat. > * How to start and more importantly, stay on a fitness regimen. > * The best fitness regimen. > * What metrics are important? > * Why now is better than later. The longer you delay, the harder it is > to reverse the damage you've already caused to your body. What is that > damage? > * How to stay motivated. [snip] I unfortunately missed Clifford's talk about geeks and health. I did a web search for related information. I found a little bit, including http://www.pcworld.com/article/188211/health_tips_for_geeks.html and http://boagworld.com/reviews/health/. But those sites didn't cover as wide a range of topics as it seems Clifford did. Does anyone have a video, a recording, or slides of Clifford's talk? Please CC me if your reply. Thanks in advance, -- Jason Spiro: software/web developer, packager, trainer, IT consultant. I support Linux, UNIX, Windows, and more. Contact me to discuss your needs. +1 (416) 992-3445 / www.jspiro.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 21:54:31 2011 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 17:54:31 -0400 Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110919215431.GW17017@adb.ca> Dave Cramer wrote: > My daughter needs a printer for school. I'm looking for a smallish > laser printer. I have an old laser jet 6p that seems to print forever > on a cartridge. Is there anything out there like that ? Smaller, more > modern, ie USB ? I had a Brother HL-2030 that fits that bill quite nicely, but it's off in my son's dorm room now. Strange coincidence, that. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 23:14:45 2011 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 19:14:45 -0400 Subject: Geeks and health (was: Re: GTALUG Meeting on 13th September, 2011 at 7:30pm) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E77CCE5.2020405@dinamis.com> On 09/19/2011 05:17 PM, Jason A. Spiro wrote: > I unfortunately missed Clifford's talk about geeks and health. I did > a web search for related information. I found a little bit, including > http://www.pcworld.com/article/188211/health_tips_for_geeks.html and > http://boagworld.com/reviews/health/. > > But those sites didn't cover as wide a range of topics as it seems > Clifford did. Does anyone have a video, a recording, or slides of > Clifford's talk? Hi Jason, There were no slides since I don't like using them. I feel it puts up a barrier between me and the audience and I prefer a more informal presentation where audience participation is encouraged and we got exactly that. I don't know if anyone was recording the presentation. If they were, I'd love to have a copy, too. I made what some people thought was a controversial statement when I said that contrary to popular opinion, coconut oil is a healthy oil. One participant said that canola was in fact a healthy option. I didn't dispute the point because ultimately, everyone should be responsible for their own health and do their own homework. I was reminded of that discussion when I stumbled upon a few YouTube videos on the weekend on the topic of coconut oil's health benefits. Knowing that some of the subscribers to this list don't have the Flash plug-in installed, these articles should provide a good starting point for your research: and . Note that Dr. Mercola recommends oils that have NOT been hydrogenated, which I believe everyone in attendance who had an opinion on the subject, also knew. I consume only organic, cold-pressed, virgin, non-hydrogenated coconut oil. The only other oil I use is cold-pressed, extra virgin olive oil I purchase from a store that knows the provenance of the oil. There is a lot of fraud in olive oil where some of the brands aren't even olive oil at all and are inferior oils like canola with food colouring and artificial flavours added to make it taste like olive oil. Buyer beware! -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 23:29:00 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 19:29:00 -0400 Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E77D03C.5020702@ve3syb.ca> On 11-09-19 08:25 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'm looking for a smallish laser printer. I have an old laser jet 6p that > seems to print forever on a cartridge. Is there anything out there like > that ? Smaller, more modern, ie USB ? I recently picked up a Samsung ML1865W laser printer that was on sale at my local Best Buy. My other choice was an HP P1102W, both of similar size. The Samsung W model was (and still is) on sale, has built-in WiFi, and is less expensive than either the ML1865 (no WiFi) or the HP. The replacement toner cartridges for the Samsung are less expensive than the HP and has better support for Linux than the HP using drivers you can download from the Samsung website. So far, I'm happy with the printer although I don't do a lot of printing. It's a lot faster than my old Xerox WorkCenter xe80 printer/copier. I am also impressed with the accuracy of the positioning. If you want a box around the page that is 1/2" away from the edge of the page that is pretty much what you get. It is the first printer I've owned where the margins on the printed page are (almost) exactly as I had them in a word processing document. http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/samsung-samsung-wireless-laser-printer-ml-1865w-ml-1865w/10158923.aspx?path=24166f59d4ee70d700e0520ee39ceef4en02 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 19 23:54:50 2011 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 23:54:50 +0000 Subject: Other: Colo locations for one or two machines Message-ID: <1412624098-1316476490-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-607032827-@b15.c24.bise6.blackberry> Anyone have any recommendations for Colo facilities in the GTA? I have to move ours next month. I would have 2 servers there probably a total of 4U of rack space. Thanks, John. Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 01:26:32 2011 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 21:26:32 -0400 Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: <4E77D03C.5020702-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4E77D03C.5020702@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20110920012632.GA10868@amber> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 07:29:00PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On 11-09-19 08:25 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > > I'm looking for a smallish laser printer. I have an old laser jet 6p that > > seems to print forever on a cartridge. Is there anything out there like > > that ? Smaller, more modern, ie USB ? > > I recently picked up a Samsung ML1865W laser printer that was on sale at my > local Best Buy. My other choice was an HP P1102W, both of similar size. The > Samsung W model was (and still is) on sale, has built-in WiFi, and is less > expensive than either the ML1865 (no WiFi) or the HP. The replacement toner > cartridges for the Samsung are less expensive than the HP and has better > support for Linux than the HP using drivers you can download from the > Samsung website. I bought the HP 1102w, and I can testify that support for Linux isn't quite where it should be. I have it running with the Foomatic foo2zjs-z2, but the margins aren't quite right, and it doesn't permit much fine-grained handling. It works like a charm with OS X, so it isn't the printer. Unfortunately, the hplip drivers somehow can't cope with this printer. So it's second-rate output unless you get to the level of fussing with the details of the driver, which I haven't done yet, and don't really think I should have to do. If the Samsung is better supported, then don't bother with the HP. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 12:39:55 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 08:39:55 -0400 Subject: Other: Colo locations for one or two machines In-Reply-To: <1412624098-1316476490-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-607032827--qHxxVlIxvWbu0SvZEyS9JBekPp51BxWP@public.gmane.org> References: <1412624098-1316476490-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-607032827-@b15.c24.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <20110920123955.GA10082@watson-wilson.ca> http://www.caneris.com/Hosting -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 12:54:13 2011 From: iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Isaac Connor) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 08:54:13 -0400 Subject: Other: Colo locations for one or two machines In-Reply-To: <20110920123955.GA10082-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1412624098-1316476490-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-607032827-@b15.c24.bise6.blackberry> <20110920123955.GA10082@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4E788CF5.7040308@connortechnology.com> I use http://www.the-wire.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 13:01:14 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:01:14 -0400 Subject: eCommerce Provider? Message-ID: <20110920130114.GA4458@yam.witteman.ca> Can anyone recommend an eCommerce provider? I will be asked to add the ability to take money to my company's website, but I don't know who to work with, and I can see no good coming from implementing it myself. Thanks! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 13:31:32 2011 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:31:32 -0400 Subject: eCommerce Provider? In-Reply-To: <20110920130114.GA4458-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110920130114.GA4458@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: William, do you need a payment/merchant gateway (solution for accepting money and processing payments) and/or eCommerce software to handle selling goods/services? For the latter, I've always been a fan of OSCommerce as it's nice and easy, open source webstore software that runs on AMP, but is feature rich enough for most users. For the former, there are a lot of options. Obviously there're options like paypal and google checkout, but they take large percentages out of the payment. If your company already has a method of taking credit cards then contact your merchant for that and they might have suggestions. Authorize.net is a very reputable and common merchant gateway worth checking out. -jason On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 9:01 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Can anyone recommend an eCommerce provider? ?I will be asked to add the > ability to take money to my company's website, but I don't know who to > work with, and I can see no good coming from implementing it myself. > Thanks! > -- > > yours, > > William > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 15:26:22 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:26:22 -0400 Subject: eCommerce Provider? In-Reply-To: References: <20110920130114.GA4458@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20110920152622.GC5802@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 09:31:32AM -0400, Jason Shaw wrote: >William, do you need a payment/merchant gateway (solution for >accepting money and processing payments) and/or eCommerce software to >handle selling goods/services? What I'm looking for is a way to take conference registration fees. >For the latter, I've always been a fan of OSCommerce as it's nice and >easy, open source webstore software that runs on AMP, but is feature >rich enough for most users. > >For the former, there are a lot of options. Obviously there're options >like paypal and google checkout, but they take large percentages out >of the payment. If your company already has a method of taking credit >cards then contact your merchant for that and they might have >suggestions. Authorize.net is a very reputable and common merchant >gateway worth checking out. It is good to know that the big providers take a big cut - I'll have to look into how big a cut that would be. Thanks! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 15:32:37 2011 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:32:37 -0400 Subject: eCommerce Provider? In-Reply-To: <20110920152622.GC5802-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110920130114.GA4458@yam.witteman.ca> <20110920152622.GC5802@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: Something like OSCommerce should work for what you need there, although it might be overkill, however it does handle all of the communicating with a merchant gateway for you. Probably some smaller scale ones out there as well. I believe that both Paypal and Google Checkout take ~2.9%-3% of each transaction. Full blown Merchant Gateways like Authorize.net don't take a percentage, but instead have a registration fee and then charge a monthly fee and/or a per transaction fee, although I don't recall the numbers for that offhand. A few others you might want to have a look at are: beanstream bluepay iTransact Landmark Linkpoint PSIGate Some of them cater more towards international markets, but it's always nice to check out the alternatives. -jason On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 11:26 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 09:31:32AM -0400, Jason Shaw wrote: >>William, do you need a payment/merchant gateway (solution for >>accepting money and processing payments) and/or eCommerce software to >>handle selling goods/services? > > What I'm looking for is a way to take conference registration fees. > >>For the latter, I've always been a fan of OSCommerce as it's nice and >>easy, open source webstore software that runs on AMP, but is feature >>rich enough for most users. >> >>For the former, there are a lot of options. Obviously there're options >>like paypal and google checkout, but they take large percentages out >>of the payment. If your company already has a method of taking credit >>cards then contact your merchant for that and they might have >>suggestions. ?Authorize.net is a very reputable and common merchant >>gateway worth checking out. > > It is good to know that the big providers take a big cut - I'll have to > look into how big a cut that would be. ?Thanks! > -- > > yours, > > William > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 15:44:16 2011 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:44:16 -0400 Subject: eCommerce Provider? Message-ID: <201109201544.p8KFiGdW006561@john.syonex.com> Most payment providers (paypal, beanstream, etc) provide a web interface, so you can set up a registration form on your site, then toss people to the gateway site to collect payment details. You may not need a shopping cart or SSL yourself. Depending on how involved your event management needs are, you might find that something simple like http://guestlistapp.com/ meets your needs. They essentially let people sign up through their app, pay you via paypal, and track registration, etc. And if you're a not-for-profit, they don't charge anything (though Paypal will still take its cut). If it's a one-time event, you're likely best off with Paypal. Setting up a merchant account adds time and complexity. If you need a merchant account, Beanstream is likely your best choice in Canada. Hope that helps - cheers! John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 16:16:19 2011 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:16:19 -0400 Subject: Other: Colo locations for one or two machines In-Reply-To: <1412624098-1316476490-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-607032827--qHxxVlIxvWbu0SvZEyS9JBekPp51BxWP@public.gmane.org> References: <1412624098-1316476490-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-607032827-@b15.c24.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <4E78BC53.7010901@the-wire.com> On 11-09-19 07:54 PM, jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Anyone have any recommendations for Colo facilities in the GTA? > I have to move ours next month. > I would have 2 servers there probably a total of 4U of rack space. There's also vex.net , though I've only used their hosting service, not their co-location. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 16:45:09 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:45:09 -0400 Subject: OT disturbing call Message-ID: So I answered a survey which seemed to be a poll about the election, not 1 minute after I received a call from the party I had named as my likely choice. Anyone else had this happen, or heard about it ? Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 16:48:16 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 09:48:16 -0700 Subject: OT disturbing call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Where was the survey and how did you end up at it? On Sep 20, 2011 9:46 AM, "Dave Cramer" wrote: > So I answered a survey which seemed to be a poll about the election, > not 1 minute after I received a call from the party I had named as my > likely choice. > > Anyone else had this happen, or heard about it ? > > Dave Cramer > VP Software Development > Visible Assets Inc. > www.visibleassets.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 17:03:08 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 13:03:08 -0400 Subject: OT disturbing call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They phoned me, it was a call in Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Where was the survey and how did you end up at it? > > On Sep 20, 2011 9:46 AM, "Dave Cramer" wrote: >> So I answered a survey which seemed to be a poll about the election, >> not 1 minute after I received a call from the party I had named as my >> likely choice. >> >> Anyone else had this happen, or heard about it ? >> >> Dave Cramer >> VP Software Development >> Visible Assets Inc. >> www.visibleassets.com >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 17:51:00 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 10:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT disturbing call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1316541060.97746.YahooMailNeo@web113420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> And, you were surprised? -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave Cramer > To: tlug-BEuBXOPWo2E at public.gmane.orgg > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:03:08 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT disturbing call > >T hey phoned me, it was a call in > > Dave Cramer > VP Software Development > Visible Assets Inc. > www.visibleassets.com > > > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Where was the survey and how did you end up at it? >> >> On Sep 20, 2011 9:46 AM, "Dave Cramer" > wrote: >>> So I answered a survey which seemed to be a poll about the election, >>> not 1 minute after I received a call from the party I had named as my >>> likely choice. >>> >>> Anyone else had this happen, or heard about it ? >>> >>> Dave Cramer >>> VP Software Development >>> Visible Assets Inc. >>> www.visibleassets.com >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 18:05:59 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:05:59 -0400 Subject: OT disturbing call In-Reply-To: <1316541060.97746.YahooMailNeo-ywxMEV4duM8/JfqJOfUXs/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1316541060.97746.YahooMailNeo@web113420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was surprised at the speed which it happened. Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 1:51 PM, William Park wrote: > And, you were surprised? > -- > > William > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dave Cramer >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Cc: >> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:03:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT disturbing call >> >>T hey phoned me, it was a call in >> >> Dave Cramer >> VP Software Development >> Visible Assets Inc. >> www.visibleassets.com >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >>> ?Where was the survey and how did you end up at it? >>> >>> ?On Sep 20, 2011 9:46 AM, "Dave Cramer" >> wrote: >>>> ?So I answered a survey which seemed to be a poll about the election, >>>> ?not 1 minute after I received a call from the party I had named as my >>>> ?likely choice. >>>> >>>> ?Anyone else had this happen, or heard about it ? >>>> >>>> ?Dave Cramer >>>> ?VP Software Development >>>> ?Visible Assets Inc. >>>> ?www.visibleassets.com >>>> ?-- >>>> ?The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>> ?TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>> ?How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 18:12:50 2011 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:12:50 -0400 Subject: OT disturbing call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58503d6aa71bb20608a4975a255d70f5.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Why answer these questions at all? After all, your vote is secret for a reason. What use is this information to the people that are doing the asking? Perhaps it goes into a published poll, but what value is a published poll to the electoral process? It just fuels the herd instinct. No kidding, I've heard people say that they want to be part of the winning side, ie, vote with the majority, regardless. Or if it goes into a private poll, perhaps it's used to tailor strategy to entice voters. Is that desireable? Sometimes political parties call me to ask 'Can we count on your vote?' and I say that my vote is confidential. They usually backtrack like crazy, because they *know* that it's confidential, and they know why. The one time I would consider responding is when the poll is evidently being done by a group one disagrees with. Then you can feed misinformation to them... Peter > They phoned me, it was a call in > > Dave Cramer > VP Software Development > Visible Assets Inc. > www.visibleassets.com > > > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Where was the survey and how did you end up at it? >> >> On Sep 20, 2011 9:46 AM, "Dave Cramer" wrote: >>> So I answered a survey which seemed to be a poll about the election, >>> not 1 minute after I received a call from the party I had named as my >>> likely choice. >>> >>> Anyone else had this happen, or heard about it ? >>> >>> Dave Cramer >>> VP Software Development >>> Visible Assets Inc. >>> www.visibleassets.com >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 18:30:17 2011 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 14:30:17 -0400 Subject: OT disturbing call In-Reply-To: <58503d6aa71bb20608a4975a255d70f5.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <58503d6aa71bb20608a4975a255d70f5.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: Friend of mine received a call from a political party the other day. He responded with, "Oh, there's an election?" (He has a truly evil sense of humour.) "And is Obama running in my riding? No? Good. I hate the Republican party., so I'd never vote for him. I hear he's a Tea-Party supporter. I prefer coffee." "Is it too late for me to run?" (By now, the poor woman is convinced she's dealing with a lunatic.) "And you said you're from the Democrats? Oh, the Liberals? Can you tell me what your policies are? And the other parties who are running?" Fifteen minutes later... "And what about the Republicans and Democrats? Who are they running in my riding? Nobody? So I could run for one of those parties?" "Well, thank you very much for your time. Can I call you back if I have any more questions?" He's certain that the local Liberal candidate's people will NOT be calling HIM back any time soon. On September 20, 2011 14:12:50 you wrote: > Why answer these questions at all? After all, your vote is secret for a > reason. > > What use is this information to the people that are doing the asking? > Perhaps it goes into a published poll, but what value is a published poll > to the electoral process? It just fuels the herd instinct. No kidding, > I've heard people say that they want to be part of the winning side, ie, > vote with the majority, regardless. > > Or if it goes into a private poll, perhaps it's used to tailor strategy to > entice voters. Is that desireable? > > Sometimes political parties call me to ask 'Can we count on your vote?' > and I say that my vote is confidential. They usually backtrack like crazy, > because they *know* that it's confidential, and they know why. > > The one time I would consider responding is when the poll is evidently > being done by a group one disagrees with. Then you can feed misinformation > to them... > > Peter > > > They phoned me, it was a call in > > > > Dave Cramer > > VP Software Development > > Visible Assets Inc. > > www.visibleassets.com > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> Where was the survey and how did you end up at it? > >> > >> On Sep 20, 2011 9:46 AM, "Dave Cramer" wrote: > >>> So I answered a survey which seemed to be a poll about the election, > >>> not 1 minute after I received a call from the party I had named as my > >>> likely choice. > >>> > >>> Anyone else had this happen, or heard about it ? > >>> > >>> Dave Cramer > >>> VP Software Development > >>> Visible Assets Inc. > >>> www.visibleassets.com > >>> -- > >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 19:31:14 2011 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:31:14 -0400 Subject: OT disturbing call In-Reply-To: <58503d6aa71bb20608a4975a255d70f5.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <58503d6aa71bb20608a4975a255d70f5.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4E78EA02.9000303@dinamis.com> On 09/20/2011 02:12 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Why answer these questions at all? After all, your vote is secret for a > reason. > > What use is this information to the people that are doing the asking? > Perhaps it goes into a published poll, but what value is a published poll > to the electoral process? It just fuels the herd instinct. No kidding, > I've heard people say that they want to be part of the winning side, ie, > vote with the majority, regardless. The herd instinct also comes into play when people vote "strategically" and parties that would never have a hope of forming a government otherwise are surprised as anyone when they get the majority of the vote or they end up forming the official opposition. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 20:51:02 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:51:02 -0400 Subject: Geeks and health Message-ID: Clifford's presentation was on a subject I consider very important, and I thought I might have a few words to add ... It turned out to be rather more than "a few." Forgive my verbosity. Skip through and look at the headings to see if there's anything of interest to you. MY HISTORY I quit high school gym the instant I could. I had a bad knee, and I hated swimming and wrestling long before the latter brought out my knee problems. I was a science/math geek and didn't need to stay fit. A decade later I found myself in Montreal for a few months not knowing anyone, so I thought it would be cool to try Karate down the street at the Y. I really enjoyed Karate, so I stuck with it. A few months after I started I noticed the lack of something: I had been prone to mood swings, and the occasional random depression. Gone. I had heard that as you get more fit, you feel better: it had seemed a rather nebulous promise, but it definitely made good for me. Essentially (feel free to look this up, you can find a more accurate description) your body generates a better grade of chemicals and hormones when you're fit, and it makes you feel better. I continued to practice the martial arts in one form or another for quite a few years. I got into weight training, initially to protect my bad knee. Never liked the actual exercise, but it did help my knee and I really liked the improvements in body shape. I would recommend that those over about 35 approach martial arts (other than Tai Chi) with considerable caution: I tried to return to Kung Fu a couple years ago and found that, while I still love the sport, I bruise, strain, and sprain much more easily than I did 20 years ago, and it also takes me a lot longer to heal. By the same token, you need to be more cautious and warm up more for any sport as you age. FOOD One topic that's interested me over the years is our relationship to food. Nature programmed us to over-eat when there's an abundance of food: the extra is stored as fat, which protects us against the next famine. Unfortunately, Nature never programmed us to stop over-eating when we had stored enough reserves: it would have happened so infrequently that evolution didn't have an opportunity to weed out the constant over-eaters. And in the last fifty years or so we as a culture have found ourselves with abundant and cheap food, and a "get value for money" attitude that's dictated massive plates of food and 64 oz. Slurpies full of HFCS. We eat far too much. And this is why we've developed an obsession in roughly the same time period with "reducing fat." For eons, we ate fat in our food without problems. The main problem is more portion control than fat. We also have a fascination with refining or concentrating things: we take coca leaves, a gentle stimulant, and create cocaine from them. By the same logic, if caffeine is good, Red Bull is better. Refined sugar was a pretty bad idea too - as was refining whole wheat to white flour, and brown rice to white rice. And one of our worst ideas was High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS): read up on it, it's in incredibly wide-spread use and a some nutritionists refer to it as a poison (and the rest don't exactly think well of it). I believe very deeply in moderation. I try to eat less refined foods, but I do drink a can of soda most days (with my dose of HFCS). What I hope you're getting from this is to know what you're eating and reduce over-use of bad stuff. A lot of people attack their fitness issues by going cold turkey, or overdoing something ... Small changes over a long period will work much better for most people. EXERCISE If you're going to start exercising, the best advice I can give is to find an exercise you like. Or at the very least find a way to make a boring exercise palatable. Karate isn't great aerobic exercise, but I loved it and stuck to it - which is more important than its aerobic aspects. A few years ago my only real option was stationary bike: not exciting. I found what worked was to park the bike in front of a big TV with surround sound and use the library as a constant drip feed of movies. Worked great. Another alternative is to create unavoidable exercise. Distance from work has been a factor in the selection of my last two apartments: my previous apartment was selected in an area that would have me a half hour bike ride from work, and my latest place is a half hour walk from work. I deliberately don't ride my bike because the ride is too short to offer significant aerobic exercise. Don't go cheap on exercise equipment - whether it's a stationary bike, treadmill, or stairmaster, do your research and get a good one. But don't use the cost as a motivator either: "I paid $2000 for that treadmill so I have to use it" doesn't usually work. Use a short term gym membership to try out various types of equipment, then get your own. WORKING AT A DESK Clifford talked some about the problems of the computer geek work conditions. Look up the basics of ergonomics: that science exists for a reason. - get a good, comfortable chair - adjust the chair height so your thighs are parallel to the floor and your feet rest flat on the floor - the pointing device should be close, so it's not a stretch to reach it - adjust the keyboard height so your forearms are parallel to the floor - adjust the screen so the top is at your eye level - these are probably the most important things, but do your own research I've had back problems and I found the Herman Miller Aeron chair to be a big help. They're very expensive, but I own two: I paid out of my own pocket for my work chair. It's very unlikely you need a chair that expensive, but don't put up with an uncomfortable chair: get another one, because the uncomfortable one is almost certainly causing you damage. Clifford talked about "Why sitting for extended periods of time is killing you slowly." The best chair in the world won't save you from the problems of posture, muscle tension and muscle imbalance that he discussed. What he didn't cover is some relatively recent science that shows that some parts of our body (sorry, I can't remember which exactly: I think the lymph nodes) rely on our movement to power their transport system. One more reason to get up and move frequently. As was mentioned so often last night, "There's an app for that." For Linux there's the very simple and old-fashioned xwrits (which I use at home), and for Linux and Windows there's the much larger (but mostly better) Workrave (which I use at work). I look like a prairie dog, popping up every fifteen minutes for a short walk around my group's desks, but I have less problems with stiffness and eye strain. CHRONIC INJURIES AND PAIN In all sports, but weightlifting in particular, you learn to recognize certain types of pain. There's "the burn," which is good: your muscles are approaching exhaustion, meaning you're achieving your aim. You're likely to learn to work through it and finish the exercise. And then there's the pain of pulled muscles and other forms of physical damage. This becomes a difference that you'll recognize instantaneously ... but until you get to that point, proceed with caution and treat all pain as a reason to stop IMMEDIATELY. Anyone who advocates "working through the pain" without knowing your level of experience is an idiot - and endangering your health to boot. DIET VS. EXERCISE If you want to maintain or lose weight, you have to control your food intake. Exercise is unlikely to be enough. Here's why: when I was in my best shape, my stationary bike would tell me I was burning 700 calories in an hour. Since 3200 calories is roughly equal to one pound, I worked off less than a quarter pound in an hour. Your scale will tell you otherwise, because you also lost about two pounds of water - but I hope you'll drink that back up right away (stay hydrated!). Exercise will improve your physical and mental well-being, but is the smaller part of weight control. Diet is the larger part: as Clifford said, "80% diet and 20% exercise." You can do one without the other: it's better to do both, but again, do what works for you and what you can stick to. You'll see benefits from either one. And do your research. Educate yourself: this is your body and your life you're messing with. Clifford and I are giving advice with the best of intentions, but no one can judge better than you what will work for you. Good luck. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 20 21:17:02 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 17:17:02 -0400 Subject: Geeks and health In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > Clifford's presentation was on a subject I consider very important, > and I thought I might have a few words to add ... ?It turned out to be > rather more than "a few." ?Forgive my verbosity. ?Skip through and > look at the headings to see if there's anything of interest to you. > > I would recommend that those over about 35 approach martial arts > (other than Tai Chi) with considerable caution: I tried to return to This is a generalization as I have injured myself in tai chi as well. It's not as "gentle" as it appears > ? ?WORKING AT A DESK > > Clifford talked some about the problems of the computer geek work > conditions. ?Look up the basics of ergonomics: that science exists for > a reason. > > - get a good, comfortable chair > - adjust the chair height so your thighs are parallel to the floor and > your feet rest flat on the floor > - the pointing device should be close, so it's not a stretch to reach it > - adjust the keyboard height so your forearms are parallel to the floor > - adjust the screen so the top is at your eye level > - these are probably the most important things, but do your own research > > I've had back problems and I found the Herman Miller Aeron chair to be > a big help. ?They're very expensive, but I own two: I paid out of my > own pocket for my work chair. ?It's very unlikely you need a chair > that expensive, but don't put up with an uncomfortable chair: get > another one, because the uncomfortable one is almost certainly causing > you damage. OK, who doesn't own at least 1000 dollars worth of computers here? That's what an Herman Miller will set you back. Now you spend at least 8 hours a day in it. In my opinion it's 1k well spent. > > Clifford talked about "Why sitting for extended periods of time is > killing you slowly." ?The best chair in the world won't save you from > the problems of posture, muscle tension and muscle imbalance that he > discussed. ?What he didn't cover is some relatively recent science > that shows that some parts of our body (sorry, I can't remember which > exactly: I think the lymph nodes) rely on our movement to power their > transport system. ?One more reason to get up and move frequently. ?As yes, it is lymph nodes, and tai chi is a very old art that is designed to circulate the lymphatic system. > ? ? DIET VS. EXERCISE > > If you want to maintain or lose weight, you have to control your food > intake. ?Exercise is unlikely to be enough. ?Here's why: when I was in > my best shape, my stationary bike would tell me I was burning 700 > calories in an hour. ?Since 3200 calories is roughly equal to one > pound, I worked off less than a quarter pound in an hour. ?Your scale > will tell you otherwise, because you also lost about two pounds of > water - but I hope you'll drink that back up right away (stay > hydrated!). ?Exercise will improve your physical and mental > well-being, but is the smaller part of weight control. ?Diet is the > larger part: as Clifford said, "80% diet and 20% exercise." ?You can > do one without the other: it's better to do both, but again, do what > works for you and what you can stick to. ?You'll see benefits from > either one. For the most part I agree with this, except controlling the amount of food. I have recently seen a nutritionist who changed the food I was eating. I now eat much more food than I used to, but the right food. I have lost 30 lbs easily. One of the things she said is that if you are missing a single nutrient the body will hang on to the fat, however if you provide the body with all of the nutrients it requires it will gladly give it up. Alternatively if you don't it will find it from within, such as bones, cartilage, etc. Reducing caloric input is a very tough way to lose weight, proven every day by dieters around the world. FWIW, there is an open source nutrition program called nut http://nut.sourceforge.net/ > > And do your research. ?Educate yourself: this is your body and your > life you're messing with. ?Clifford and I are giving advice with the > best of intentions, but no one can judge better than you what will > work for you. > Agreed. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 02:06:07 2011 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 22:06:07 -0400 Subject: Other: Colo locations for one or two machines In-Reply-To: <4E78BC53.7010901-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1412624098-1316476490-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-607032827-@b15.c24.bise6.blackberry> <4E78BC53.7010901@the-wire.com> Message-ID: Great, thank you for all the suggestions. A quick question of protocol; is a mailing like this OK on TLUG, or is it best to avoid the discussion of not-so-linux related items? john. On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > On 11-09-19 07:54 PM, jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Anyone have any recommendations for Colo facilities in the GTA? >> I have to move ours next month. >> I would have 2 servers there probably a total of 4U of rack space. >> > > There's also vex.net >, > though I've only used their hosting service, not their co-location. > > Mel. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 03:06:14 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 23:06:14 -0400 Subject: Geeks and health In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Giles Orr wrote: >> Clifford's presentation was on a subject I consider very important, >> and I thought I might have a few words to add ... ?It turned out to be >> rather more than "a few." ?Forgive my verbosity. ?Skip through and >> look at the headings to see if there's anything of interest to you. > >> I would recommend that those over about 35 approach martial arts >> (other than Tai Chi) with considerable caution: I tried to return to > > This is a generalization as I have injured myself in tai chi as well. > It's not as "gentle" as it appears My hips hurt remarkably, in a "boy, there are some muscles that have never gotten used before!" way for about the first six months after starting. I'd reckon that *anything* can be done in a way that can injure yourself, but I'd put Tai Chi pretty low on the spectrum of things *likely* to easily cause injury. In contrast, I'd fully expect karate to be injury-ful for any of us relative "oldsters." What I find most interesting, after having done Tai Chi for a few years now, the experienced folk come out of a session sweating heavily, whereas newcomers generally don't. If you're doing it right, it's a *lot* more work than if you don't know what you're doing. Pulling from my notes... - When Clifford headed to a gym, he saw they were heavily hawking trainers to walk him through resistance training. A lot of what they were proposing was pretty ridiculous. I worked with a trainer for a while, myself, and there's *some* value to it, as weight machines can easily be ill-used leading to injury. In many cases, what you *think* you see isn't quite the same as what you should be doing. A bit like with Tai Chi, if you're doing weights properly, you don't need huge stacks of weight unless you're one of the "steroid mutants" that don't exist at GTALUG :-). - Clifford mentioned a notion of doing interval training. Brief sprints of high intensity, with limited recovery times. He pointed at exercise representing about 20% of the "causality mix", and proper diet representing the other 80%. There was some mention of proper sleep also being an important component; I suspect the mix might be more like (diet, sleep, exercise) ~ (20%, 10%, 70%). He noted some sorts of foods being particularly unhelpful, notably those with high glycemic indices. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic - High: anything "white" (white flour, breakfast cereals) - Medium: whole wheat-ish stuff - Low: most fruits & vegetables, nuts, whole grains He noted that fats are often not evaluated quite properly, and there's a traditional tendency to treat consuming fat as "bad," and a whole industry surrounding "fat free" when we really should be getting a fair bit of our energy from fat. - Bad fats tend to be solid at room temperature; - OK fats are, at that point, still liquid. - His preference is coconut oil, as long as he can validate the provenance. Apparently there are lots of problems with "olive oil" being constructed from non-olive combinations that are made to taste as if it's olive oil. - Milk fat tends to be pretty bad; he replaces that with almond 'milk'. - Avocado is pretty fatty, but of a good nature that you should consider consuming. One of the notions commended was to not try to "fix everything" by 'going on a diet', but rather to incrementally improve habits. It's no good if you do a 'crash' 6 week diet that loses you a bunch of weight, but which leaves you so starved that you immediately gain it all back afterwards. The gyms are terrible about this "sin"; they are keen on getting you to have super-ambitious goals that require extreme intervention and self-control. Incremental changes that you can keep to are way more worthwhile. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 14:31:48 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 10:31:48 -0400 Subject: Other: Colo locations for one or two machines In-Reply-To: References: <1412624098-1316476490-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-607032827-@b15.c24.bise6.blackberry> <4E78BC53.7010901@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <4E79F554.8060004@ss.org> On 09/20/2011 10:06 PM, John Miles wrote: > Great, thank you for all the suggestions. > A quick question of protocol; is a mailing like this OK on TLUG, or is > it best to avoid the discussion of not-so-linux related items? > > john. Generally I don't see much of a problem with these kinds of questions on list. There useful reference material should I need to go hunting later. Some folks will mark threads as "Off Topic" [OT], but for the most part the options for a conversation aren't restrained. If people don't want to read a particular thread, there more then welcome to mark it as such or update their kill file. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 21:18:46 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 17:18:46 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs Message-ID: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 21:24:41 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 17:24:41 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent or see : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/21/secure_boot_firmware_linux_exclusion_fears/ > -- > Thomas Milne > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 21:28:19 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 17:28:19 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 05:18:46PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent Of course we don't know that yet. So far it is just speculation. I do imagine some companies would love a method to prevent their machines from having rootkits installed (at least by currently known methods). Of course given existing windows versions aren't signed, any machine that requires this to work, won't work with existing windows versions, so the changes of that happening seems pretty slim. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 21:37:51 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 17:37:51 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <20110921212819.GV15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> Not sure i understand it. I can see a company not wanting a rootkit and essentially allowing for a insecure boot and other issues, I mean a linux distro could demand this (for valid security reasons) and lock out dual boot to windows? But, is it not the case that this signing issue would not have any effect on dual boot from separate drives? I know at times i have had dual boot be drive based and flipped in bios. I guess however this would be deemed a hassle to some? Given boot priority however, if you had drive drawers or power switch on drives, you could just dual boot by powering off the windows drive (or pop it, or bios change priority), and then it goes into linux? So seems to me its hardly a "block", if that was even attempt by MS, but rather maybe a slight annoyance at best? -tl On 09/21/2011 05:28 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 05:18:46PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent > Of course we don't know that yet. So far it is just speculation. > > I do imagine some companies would love a method to prevent their machines > from having rootkits installed (at least by currently known methods). > > Of course given existing windows versions aren't signed, any machine > that requires this to work, won't work with existing windows versions, > so the changes of that happening seems pretty slim. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 22:00:28 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:00:28 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <4E7A592F.2050207-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> Message-ID: The central point in all of this is that ANY OS that is not properly signed in Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) will not be allowed to boot. In other words, NO Linux will run (unless the hardware vendor has included a signature for YOUR Linux distro.), ditto old versions of Microsoft Windows, ditto other free OSs such as FreeBSD. The reason the hardware vendors would add UEFI is because they will not be able to use the Windows 8 logo without UEFI. Bottom line, this is Microsoft under the cover of "security" attacking Linux, other free OSs and old versions of Windows. Colin On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Ted wrote: > Not sure i understand it. > I can see a company not wanting a rootkit and essentially allowing for a > insecure boot and ?other issues, > I mean ?a linux distro could demand this (for valid security reasons) and > lock out dual boot to windows? > But, is it not the case that this signing issue would not have any effect on > dual boot from separate drives? > I know at times i have had dual boot be drive based and flipped in bios. > I guess however this would be deemed a hassle to some? Given boot priority > however, if you > had drive drawers or power switch on drives, you could just dual boot by > powering off the windows drive (or pop it, or bios change priority), > and then it goes into linux? > So seems to me its hardly a "block", if that was even attempt by MS, but > rather maybe a slight annoyance at best? > > -tl > > On 09/21/2011 05:28 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 05:18:46PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>> >>> >>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent >> >> Of course we don't know that yet. ?So far it is just speculation. >> >> I do imagine some companies would love a method to prevent their machines >> from having rootkits installed (at least by currently known methods). >> >> Of course given existing windows versions aren't signed, any machine >> that requires this to work, won't work with existing windows versions, >> so the changes of that happening seems pretty slim. >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 22:07:44 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:07:44 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <20110921212819.GV15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:28 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 05:18:46PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent > > Of course we don't know that yet. ?So far it is just speculation. > > I do imagine some companies would love a method to prevent their machines > from having rootkits installed (at least by currently known methods). My question is what will happen when relevant Certificate Authorities get "hacked" - ala DigiNotar and Comodo? -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 22:13:46 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:13:46 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E7A619A.7070102@gmail.com> i didn't realize that UEFI would mean that vendors would have to have signatures. Well seems to me if linux distro signatures can't be introduced to allow linux to dual boot, the HW manufactures would essentially be closing the HW off to only new windows, which is highly illegal, so why would MS do something like that? There isn't even your standard very corrupt (corporate) court in US that would allow it. It would be like saying you buy a ford, they only allow Goodyear tires on it, yet other tires are all proven acceptable. I would think the only way this is going to fly is if the HW vendors also , through what ever process, allow linux, sun, ESX, etc, to run via some security signing. Even if US courts allowed it , MS would be finished in Europe, 0 new sales, doesn't sound like a good idea to me (for MS). -tl On 09/21/2011 06:00 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > The central point in all of this is that ANY OS that is not properly > signed in Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) will not be > allowed to boot. In other words, NO Linux will run (unless the > hardware vendor has included a signature for YOUR Linux distro.), > ditto old versions of Microsoft Windows, ditto other free OSs such as > FreeBSD. The reason the hardware vendors would add UEFI is because > they will not be able to use the Windows 8 logo without UEFI. Bottom > line, this is Microsoft under the cover of "security" attacking Linux, > other free OSs and old versions of Windows. > > Colin > > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Ted wrote: >> Not sure i understand it. >> I can see a company not wanting a rootkit and essentially allowing for a >> insecure boot and other issues, >> I mean a linux distro could demand this (for valid security reasons) and >> lock out dual boot to windows? >> But, is it not the case that this signing issue would not have any effect on >> dual boot from separate drives? >> I know at times i have had dual boot be drive based and flipped in bios. >> I guess however this would be deemed a hassle to some? Given boot priority >> however, if you >> had drive drawers or power switch on drives, you could just dual boot by >> powering off the windows drive (or pop it, or bios change priority), >> and then it goes into linux? >> So seems to me its hardly a "block", if that was even attempt by MS, but >> rather maybe a slight annoyance at best? >> >> -tl >> >> On 09/21/2011 05:28 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 05:18:46PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>>> >>>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent >>> Of course we don't know that yet. So far it is just speculation. >>> >>> I do imagine some companies would love a method to prevent their machines >>> from having rootkits installed (at least by currently known methods). >>> >>> Of course given existing windows versions aren't signed, any machine >>> that requires this to work, won't work with existing windows versions, >>> so the changes of that happening seems pretty slim. >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 22:17:19 2011 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:17:19 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E7A626F.5050707@the-wire.com> On 11-09-21 06:07 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:28 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 05:18:46PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent >> >> Of course we don't know that yet. So far it is just speculation. >> >> I do imagine some companies would love a method to prevent their machines >> from having rootkits installed (at least by currently known methods). > > My question is what will happen when relevant Certificate Authorities > get "hacked" - ala DigiNotar and Comodo? Yeah. That's the $2**16 question for mass-produced hardware that tries to authenticate itself. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 22:36:36 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:36:36 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <4E7A619A.7070102-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <4E7A619A.7070102@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Ted wrote: > i didn't realize that UEFI would mean that vendors would have to have > signatures. > Well seems to me if linux distro signatures can't be introduced to allow > linux to dual boot, > the HW manufactures would essentially be closing the HW off to only new > windows, > which is highly illegal, so why would MS do something like that? But it isn't Microsoft that is doing this. The keys are in the hands of the hardware vendors, so if Vendor X adds support for Ubuntu 11.04 that would be fine (but Ubuntu 10.10 and 11.10 would not run without modifications to the UEFI). Next question being how many hardware vendors would add OSs other than the current version of Windows? Maybe a few. Okay, next question, of the vendors that do add support for at least one free OS, how many would go beyond say Red Hat and Ubuntu? For all practical purposes this move will eliminate access to inexpensive new PC hardware by most versions of Linux. The nasty point in this being that when hauled into court (as I hope they will be), Microsoft will be able to point at the hardware vendors, and say "If you want Debian, or Fedora, or ... on your computer talk to the hardware vendors". Further, while in court Microsoft will be able to spew tankers full of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) about Linux.... > There isn't even your standard very corrupt (corporate) court in US that > would allow it. > It would be like saying you buy a ford, they only allow Goodyear tires on > it, > yet other tires are all proven acceptable. > I would think the only way this is going to fly is if the HW vendors also , > through what ever process, > allow linux, sun, ESX, etc, to run via some security signing. > Even if US courts allowed it , MS would be finished in Europe, 0 new sales, > doesn't sound like a good idea to me (for MS). Sounds to me like evil brilliance if they can pull it off (and we need to figure out how to stop them... ). Colin > -tl > > > On 09/21/2011 06:00 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> The central point in all of this is that ANY OS that is not properly >> signed in Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) will not be >> allowed to boot. In other words, NO Linux will run (unless the >> hardware vendor has included a signature for YOUR Linux distro.), >> ditto old versions of Microsoft Windows, ditto other free OSs such as >> FreeBSD. The reason the hardware vendors would add UEFI is because >> they will not be able to use the Windows 8 logo without UEFI. Bottom >> line, this is Microsoft under the cover of "security" attacking Linux, >> other free OSs and old versions of Windows. >> >> Colin >> >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Ted ?wrote: >>> >>> Not sure i understand it. >>> I can see a company not wanting a rootkit and essentially allowing for a >>> insecure boot and ?other issues, >>> I mean ?a linux distro could demand this (for valid security reasons) and >>> lock out dual boot to windows? >>> But, is it not the case that this signing issue would not have any effect >>> on >>> dual boot from separate drives? >>> I know at times i have had dual boot be drive based and flipped in bios. >>> I guess however this would be deemed a hassle to some? Given boot >>> priority >>> however, if you >>> had drive drawers or power switch on drives, you could just dual boot by >>> powering off the windows drive (or pop it, or bios change priority), >>> and then it goes into linux? >>> So seems to me its hardly a "block", if that was even attempt by MS, but >>> rather maybe a slight annoyance at best? >>> >>> -tl >>> >>> On 09/21/2011 05:28 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 05:18:46PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent >>>> >>>> Of course we don't know that yet. ?So far it is just speculation. >>>> >>>> I do imagine some companies would love a method to prevent their >>>> machines >>>> from having rootkits installed (at least by currently known methods). >>>> >>>> Of course given existing windows versions aren't signed, any machine >>>> that requires this to work, won't work with existing windows versions, >>>> so the changes of that happening seems pretty slim. >>>> >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 23:04:16 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:04:16 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <4E7A619A.7070102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E7A6D70.60403@gmail.com> couldn't the ma and pop linux distro just run on a booted RH, SUSE, UBUNTU? hmmmm de-fracturing linux distros and standardizing on a few hmmmm, me like! 20,000 disros, i have always seen as excessive, just keep to 20-40 (everone join forces) :) Would the signing mean you couldn't mod the kernel (if redhat, suse, etc). Hopefully hackers would hack W8 offer as pirate OS, that you launch (partially), then it in turn starts and distro? Hopefully HW vendors just pass on the whole thing. -tl On 09/21/2011 06:36 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Ted wrote: >> i didn't realize that UEFI would mean that vendors would have to have >> signatures. >> Well seems to me if linux distro signatures can't be introduced to allow >> linux to dual boot, >> the HW manufactures would essentially be closing the HW off to only new >> windows, >> which is highly illegal, so why would MS do something like that? > But it isn't Microsoft that is doing this. The keys are in the hands > of the hardware vendors, so if Vendor X adds support for Ubuntu 11.04 > that would be fine (but Ubuntu 10.10 and 11.10 would not run without > modifications to the UEFI). Next question being how many hardware > vendors would add OSs other than the current version of Windows? Maybe > a few. Okay, next question, of the vendors that do add support for at > least one free OS, how many would go beyond say Red Hat and Ubuntu? > For all practical purposes this move will eliminate access to > inexpensive new PC hardware by most versions of Linux. The nasty > point in this being that when hauled into court (as I hope they will > be), Microsoft will be able to point at the hardware vendors, and say > "If you want Debian, or Fedora, or ... on your computer talk to the > hardware vendors". Further, while in court Microsoft will be able to > spew tankers full of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) about Linux.... > >> There isn't even your standard very corrupt (corporate) court in US that >> would allow it. >> It would be like saying you buy a ford, they only allow Goodyear tires on >> it, >> yet other tires are all proven acceptable. >> I would think the only way this is going to fly is if the HW vendors also , >> through what ever process, >> allow linux, sun, ESX, etc, to run via some security signing. >> Even if US courts allowed it , MS would be finished in Europe, 0 new sales, >> doesn't sound like a good idea to me (for MS). > > Sounds to me like evil brilliance if they can pull it off (and we need > to figure out how to stop them... ). > > Colin > >> -tl >> >> >> On 09/21/2011 06:00 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> The central point in all of this is that ANY OS that is not properly >>> signed in Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) will not be >>> allowed to boot. In other words, NO Linux will run (unless the >>> hardware vendor has included a signature for YOUR Linux distro.), >>> ditto old versions of Microsoft Windows, ditto other free OSs such as >>> FreeBSD. The reason the hardware vendors would add UEFI is because >>> they will not be able to use the Windows 8 logo without UEFI. Bottom >>> line, this is Microsoft under the cover of "security" attacking Linux, >>> other free OSs and old versions of Windows. >>> >>> Colin >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Ted wrote: >>>> Not sure i understand it. >>>> I can see a company not wanting a rootkit and essentially allowing for a >>>> insecure boot and other issues, >>>> I mean a linux distro could demand this (for valid security reasons) and >>>> lock out dual boot to windows? >>>> But, is it not the case that this signing issue would not have any effect >>>> on >>>> dual boot from separate drives? >>>> I know at times i have had dual boot be drive based and flipped in bios. >>>> I guess however this would be deemed a hassle to some? Given boot >>>> priority >>>> however, if you >>>> had drive drawers or power switch on drives, you could just dual boot by >>>> powering off the windows drive (or pop it, or bios change priority), >>>> and then it goes into linux? >>>> So seems to me its hardly a "block", if that was even attempt by MS, but >>>> rather maybe a slight annoyance at best? >>>> >>>> -tl >>>> >>>> On 09/21/2011 05:28 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>>>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 05:18:46PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent >>>>> Of course we don't know that yet. So far it is just speculation. >>>>> >>>>> I do imagine some companies would love a method to prevent their >>>>> machines >>>>> from having rootkits installed (at least by currently known methods). >>>>> >>>>> Of course given existing windows versions aren't signed, any machine >>>>> that requires this to work, won't work with existing windows versions, >>>>> so the changes of that happening seems pretty slim. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 23:42:59 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:42:59 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <4E7A592F.2050207-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110921234259.GW15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 05:37:51PM -0400, Ted wrote: > Not sure i understand it. > I can see a company not wanting a rootkit and essentially allowing > for a insecure boot and other issues, > I mean a linux distro could demand this (for valid security > reasons) and lock out dual boot to windows? > But, is it not the case that this signing issue would not have any > effect on dual boot from separate drives? > I know at times i have had dual boot be drive based and flipped in bios. > I guess however this would be deemed a hassle to some? Given boot > priority however, if you > had drive drawers or power switch on drives, you could just dual > boot by powering off the windows drive (or pop it, or bios change > priority), > and then it goes into linux? > So seems to me its hardly a "block", if that was even attempt by MS, > but rather maybe a slight annoyance at best? If you control the setup of the UEFI secure boot, then you can choose which keys to load in. So you could load a key to reocgnize microsoft signed binaries, as well as a key to recognize your own signed binaries and then go ahead and sign your grub binary and install it. If something tries to replace windows' boot code with a virus, or tries to replace your boot loader code, it will stop booting because it is no longer what you told it to allow. This sounds useful. If you don't control the setup of secure boot, you on the other hand no longer have a choice in what your machine can boot when secure boot is enabled. That sounds awful. So the real question comes down to whether you as the owner of the machine get to pick the keys on the box or not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 23:44:36 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:44:36 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110921234436.GX15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 06:00:28PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > The central point in all of this is that ANY OS that is not properly > signed in Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) will not be > allowed to boot. In other words, NO Linux will run (unless the > hardware vendor has included a signature for YOUR Linux distro.), > ditto old versions of Microsoft Windows, ditto other free OSs such as > FreeBSD. The reason the hardware vendors would add UEFI is because > they will not be able to use the Windows 8 logo without UEFI. Bottom > line, this is Microsoft under the cover of "security" attacking Linux, > other free OSs and old versions of Windows. Not quite. Only a boot loader signed by the person with an accepted signing key for the box will work. That could be you, or it could not be, depending on how the box was configured from the factory. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 23:45:24 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:45:24 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110921234524.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 06:00:28PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > The central point in all of this is that ANY OS that is not properly > signed in Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) will not be > allowed to boot. In other words, NO Linux will run (unless the > hardware vendor has included a signature for YOUR Linux distro.), > ditto old versions of Microsoft Windows, ditto other free OSs such as > FreeBSD. The reason the hardware vendors would add UEFI is because > they will not be able to use the Windows 8 logo without UEFI. Bottom > line, this is Microsoft under the cover of "security" attacking Linux, > other free OSs and old versions of Windows. But if they prevent unsigned code from running, they also prevent anything pre windows 8 from running. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 23:48:55 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:48:55 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <4E7A619A.7070102-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <4E7A619A.7070102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110921234855.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 06:13:46PM -0400, Ted wrote: > i didn't realize that UEFI would mean that vendors would have to > have signatures. UEFI version 2.3 has an optional feature called 'secure boot'. Microsoft says that to get a 'Windows 8 Compatible' logo on your box, it must have UEFI and support secure boot. UEFI has been around for years without this new feature. It's just a new optional feature that Microsoft would like to see made standard. > Well seems to me if linux distro signatures can't be introduced to > allow linux to dual boot, > the HW manufactures would essentially be closing the HW off to only > new windows, > which is highly illegal, so why would MS do something like that? > There isn't even your standard very corrupt (corporate) court in US > that would allow it. If they give you a "BIOS" option (well UEFI option) to disable the optional secure boot, then you can just turn it off and not worry about binaries being signed or not. Better yet if it DOES support the end user somehow adding there own key (and the secure boot spec certainly has a method for doing that as long as you have the original key that is added to the machine first), then you can actually use it to prevent booting a bootloader you didn't personally sign, or at least one not signed by a key you chose to add to the secure boot key list. > It would be like saying you buy a ford, they only allow Goodyear > tires on it, > yet other tires are all proven acceptable. > I would think the only way this is going to fly is if the HW vendors > also , through what ever process, > allow linux, sun, ESX, etc, to run via some security signing. > Even if US courts allowed it , MS would be finished in Europe, 0 new > sales, doesn't sound like a good idea to me (for MS). I suspect lack of implementation details so far is what is making this sensational. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sina.eetezadi-UsiKwlUuF4aeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 21 23:56:29 2011 From: sina.eetezadi-UsiKwlUuF4aeFQavDyXPBQ at public.gmane.org (Sina Eetezadi) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:56:29 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <20110921234855.GZ15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <4E7A619A.7070102@gmail.com> <20110921234855.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E7A79AD.9000809@mail.utoronto.ca> > I suspect lack of implementation details so far is what is making this > sensational. Word. Sina -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 22 13:03:57 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 09:03:57 -0400 Subject: Call from Wicrosoft In-Reply-To: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 2:11 PM, wrote: > I just had a call ostensibly from Microsoft in California. The gentleman > (Chris Brown) says there is something wrong with my computer which is > confusing their servers. > > He gave his phone number as 424-256-2700. > > Since I'm runing Suse Linux it does seem unlikely I'd be screwing over a > Microsoft Server. > > Any suggestions what I should do with this apparent scam? > > Peter Well, it seems a Microsoft Gold level partner has been dropped by Microsoft for pulling this scam, details to be seen here : http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/370054/microsoft-dumps-partner-over-support-call-scam I don't expect this to change much, but... > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 22 13:04:15 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 06:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1316696655.67221.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> >T he central point in all of this is that ANY OS that is not properly > signed in Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) will not be > allowed to boot. In other words, NO Linux will run (unless the > hardware vendor has included a signature for YOUR Linux distro.), > ditto old versions of Microsoft Windows, ditto other free OSs such as > FreeBSD. The reason the hardware vendors would add UEFI is because > they will not be able to use the Windows 8 logo without UEFI. Bottom > line, this is Microsoft under the cover of "security" attacking Linux, > other free OSs and old versions of Windows. Time for new computer.? God bless Microsoft. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 22 13:47:52 2011 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 09:47:52 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <1316696655.67221.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <1316696655.67221.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E7B3C88.50904@the-wire.com> On 11-09-22 09:04 AM, William Park wrote: >> T he central point in all of this is that ANY OS that is not properly > >> signed in Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) will not be >> allowed to boot. In other words, NO Linux will run (unless the >> hardware vendor has included a signature for YOUR Linux distro.), >> ditto old versions of Microsoft Windows, ditto other free OSs such as >> FreeBSD. The reason the hardware vendors would add UEFI is because >> they will not be able to use the Windows 8 logo without UEFI. Bottom >> line, this is Microsoft under the cover of "security" attacking Linux, >> other free OSs and old versions of Windows. > > Time for new computer. God bless Microsoft. I suspect it's time for an *old* computer, while they last. After that, I guess it'll be ARM9, ARM11 and Dragons if we're going to compute what we need to compute. Linux is a good platform for running programs. Windows is a good platform for buying programs. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 22 15:33:48 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 11:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <20110921234855.GZ15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <4E7A619A.7070102@gmail.com> <20110921234855.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Thanks for the heads-up, Collin. | From: Lennart Sorensen | Of course given existing windows versions aren't signed, any machine | that requires this to work, won't work with existing windows versions, | so the changes of that happening seems pretty slim. All that this requires is a phase-in period. Or MS's bootloader to enable this. Another example requiring a phase in period (which we are in): many of the restrictions enabled by the Protected Video Path. So this isn't unprecedented. | From: Ted | I can see a company not wanting a rootkit and essentially allowing for a | insecure boot and other issues, The word "company" is ambiguous. There are a bunch of entities involved: - the standards organization for UEFI - Microsoft, in its role mandating this security - the OS manufacturer (i.e. the one with the key that has signed the OS). Might be Microsoft or Redhat or whoever - The hardware manufacturer (eg. Asus or Dell) - the vendor (eg. Dell, Futureshop, Infonec, ...) - the VAR - the owner (eg. end user's employer) - the end user Right now, technically (but perhaps not administratively), all the power is in the end-user's hands since there is no protection. After this change, the power goes to the hardware manufacturer, but Microsoft has used its market force to move that power to Microsoft. There power flows downstream only in as much as Microsoft lets it. | I mean a linux distro could demand this (for valid security reasons) and lock | out dual boot to windows? Sure. But no manufacturer would bother to do this. No Linux distro has have the marketplace power in the consumer space. | But, is it not the case that this signing issue would not have any effect on | dual boot from separate drives? | So seems to me its hardly a "block", if that was even attempt by MS, but | rather maybe a slight annoyance at best? That in itself would be annoying. Numericallly few users are willing to buy a second drive for their machines and install it. But the keys are in the BIOS so the limitations would apply to all disks (including USB keys and CDROMS or it would be pointless). | From: Scott Elcomb | My question is what will happen when relevant Certificate Authorities | get "hacked" - ala DigiNotar and Comodo? There is no CA, at least according to the article referenced in the first post. And hacking like this gets you thrown in jail in the US (DMCA) and soon to be in Canada (on this fall's legislative agenda by all accounts). Hardly a basis for an above-board company's business model. | From: Ted | i didn't realize that UEFI would mean that vendors would have to have | signatures. | Well seems to me if linux distro signatures can't be introduced to allow linux | to dual boot, | the HW manufactures would essentially be closing the HW off to only new | windows, | which is highly illegal, so why would MS do something like that? As Collin pointed out, the action would be by hardware vendors, not Microsoft. Not clearly illegal. I hope it is. But it is under cover of "security". Legitimately. And that is second only to child porn as a justification for bad laws. Most hardware vendors in the personal computer space don't care at all about Linux. In fact, they might even want to fire us as customers because we bug them more than their Windows custormers. It is arguable that BeOS was killed by Microsoft forbidding manufacturers from delivering dual-boot (Windows and BeOS) systems. | From: Lennart Sorensen | If you control the setup of the UEFI secure boot, then you can choose | which keys to load in. So you could load a key to reocgnize microsoft | signed binaries, as well as a key to recognize your own signed binaries | and then go ahead and sign your grub binary and install it. If something | tries to replace windows' boot code with a virus, or tries to replace | your boot loader code, it will stop booting because it is no longer what | you told it to allow. This sounds useful. Yeah, but grub isn't secure. So an attacker could change grub.conf or whatever to get control. | If you don't control the setup of secure boot, you on the other hand | no longer have a choice in what your machine can boot when secure boot | is enabled. That sounds awful. | | So the real question comes down to whether you as the owner of the | machine get to pick the keys on the box or not. It's pretty clear to me that mainstream consumer hardware will go the way of least resistance and not care about locking anything they didn't deliver out. In fact, I imagine them even wanting to lock out even Microsoft upgrades-that-cost-money in such a way that they get a cut. I imagine that computer makers must be jealous of the way phone makers get away with locking down their product. | From: Lennart Sorensen | | But if they prevent unsigned code from running, they also prevent anything | pre windows 8 from running. An extra-cost option: a signed WinXP. Actually, high-end Win7 variants ("pro" and "ultimate"?) include vm support for old versions of Windows. That's probably the model. | From: Lennart Sorensen | UEFI has been around for years without this new feature. It's just a | new optional feature that Microsoft would like to see made standard. Like TPM, it can be used for good or ill. The bad thing is that it lets Microsoft gain control without even looking evil. | I suspect lack of implementation details so far is what is making this | sensational. If we don't get upset now, it will be a fait accompli before we can react. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 22 15:47:50 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 11:47:50 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <4E7A619A.7070102@gmail.com> <20110921234855.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:33 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Scott Elcomb > > | My question is what will happen when relevant Certificate Authorities > | get "hacked" - ala DigiNotar and Comodo? > > There is no CA, at least according to the article referenced in the > first post. OK, you got me... I didn't read the article Colin referred to - but had read several other articles before noticing the thread. Here's a relevant quote from The H: "This requires any firmware and boot process software ? including boot loaders as well as elements such as UEFI drivers for on-board components and expansion cards ? to be signed by a trusted Certificate Authority (CA)." Source: > And hacking like this gets you thrown in jail in the US (DMCA) and > soon to be in Canada (on this fall's legislative agenda by all > accounts). ?Hardly a basis for an above-board company's business > model. Oh, agreed. But, as evidenced by the DigiNotar hack (and plenty of other examples), that won't stop those who are not above-board. -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 22 16:50:01 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:50:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <4E7A619A.7070102@gmail.com> <20110921234855.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Scott Elcomb | On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:33 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > | From: Scott Elcomb | > | > | My question is what will happen when relevant Certificate Authorities | > | get "hacked" - ala DigiNotar and Comodo? | > | > There is no CA, at least according to the article referenced in the | > first post. | | OK, you got me... I didn't read the article Colin referred to - but | had read several other articles before noticing the thread. | | Here's a relevant quote from The H: | | "This requires any firmware and boot process software ? including boot | loaders as well as elements such as UEFI drivers for on-board | components and expansion cards ? to be signed by a trusted Certificate | Authority (CA)." | | Source: A public-key cryptosystem does not require certificates (certificates are almost always X.509 these days). Most people don't realize this. So much so that, as far as I know, FreeS/WAN (and its successors) are the only IPSec implementations that support bare public keys. (I bought a Linksys WRV200 because the manual said it supported bare public keys -- I knew that it had my code in it. When I got the router, it did not support them. It was running my code but they had blocked the feature (and didn't release the source for a long time, violating the GPL).) So: it was plausible that no CA was involved. But it may not be the case. I've not read the standard. | > And hacking like this gets you thrown in jail in the US (DMCA) and | > soon to be in Canada (on this fall's legislative agenda by all | > accounts). ?Hardly a basis for an above-board company's business | > model. | | Oh, agreed. But, as evidenced by the DigiNotar hack (and plenty of | other examples), that won't stop those who are not above-board. Right. My point was that the desktop Linux vendors would be driven out of business since they cannot reasonably base a business on illegal circumvention. From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 23 15:57:48 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:57:48 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent Here's Microsoft's response and explanation (I haven't read it yet): via /. -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 23 17:06:26 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 13:06:26 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent > > Here's Microsoft's response and explanation (I haven't read it yet): > > A Red Hat staff member has written a response to the above: http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/5850.html in other words the Microsoft commentary, while technically correct is misleading. > via /. > > > > -- > ? Scott Elcomb > ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca > > ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems > ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ > > ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada > ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 23 17:22:49 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 13:22:49 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110923172249.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:57:48AM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent > > Here's Microsoft's response and explanation (I haven't read it yet): > > Well certainly Microsoft's explanation matches what I thought the situation would be. > via /. > > -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 23 17:28:26 2011 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 13:28:26 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E7CC1BA.2000902@the-wire.com> On 11-09-23 01:06 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Thomas Milne >> wrote: >>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent >> >> Here's Microsoft's response and explanation (I haven't read it yet): >> >> > > A Red Hat staff member has written a response to the above: > > http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/5850.html > > in other words the Microsoft commentary, while technically correct is > misleading. MS seems to say basically that it's up to the hardware OEMs to allow the end-users to disable UEFI or not. Given that MS are who they are and want what they want, that's pretty much what you'd expect them to say. As far as I can see, the soft underbelly here is that every kernel and driver upgrade will have to be signed at some level. With such industrial scale signing going on world-wide, it's a matter of time before at least one of the private keys becomes known by the wrong people, and the security scheme is undermined. Multiple levels of signing can slow this down, but won't prevent it. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 23 17:47:22 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 13:47:22 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <4E7CC1BA.2000902-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E7CC1BA.2000902@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <20110923174722.GB15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 01:28:26PM -0400, Mel Wilson wrote: > MS seems to say basically that it's up to the hardware OEMs to allow > the end-users to disable UEFI or not. Given that MS are who they > are and want what they want, that's pretty much what you'd expect > them to say. That's what they say, and that is true. Now what decision the OEMs make and how Microsoft may influence those decisions is a seperate (but not entirely different) story. > As far as I can see, the soft underbelly here is that every kernel > and driver upgrade will have to be signed at some level. With such > industrial scale signing going on world-wide, it's a matter of time > before at least one of the private keys becomes known by the wrong > people, and the security scheme is undermined. Multiple levels of > signing can slow this down, but won't prevent it. The bootloader has to be signed with a key accepted by the secure boot system. Beyond that secure boot ends. The bootloader code can choose (and should to make secure boot useful) to check a signature on the OS and drivers. Of course for windows, microsoft controls the bootloader and can embed whatever keys they want in there, and require drivers to be signed by microsoft (which has been the case for years already). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 23 18:11:12 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 14:11:12 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <20110921212819.GV15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E7CCBC0.1050608@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Of course given existing windows versions aren't signed, any machine > that requires this to work, won't work with existing windows versions, > so the changes of that happening seems pretty slim. Perhaps MS considers it to be an "incentive" to buy another copy of Windows, whether you need it or not. Also, since most computers come with Windows, that really isn't much of a problem for new systems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 23 18:14:40 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 14:14:40 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <20110921234524.GY15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <20110921234524.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E7CCC90.6040203@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > But if they prevent unsigned code from running, they also prevent anything > pre windows 8 from running. MS might consider that an advantage. Can't have people reusing an OS they've already paid for, when they can be fleeced again. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 23 18:24:56 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 14:24:56 -0400 Subject: Call from Wicrosoft In-Reply-To: References: <99f444e4f16bd485b64c68de6ee28bc0.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4E7CCEF8.1080604@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Well, it seems a Microsoft Gold level partner has been dropped by > Microsoft for pulling this scam I guess MS doesn't want any competition. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 24 20:17:49 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 16:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash's globstar considered dumb (** not composable) Message-ID: In the shell, you can write a kind of regular expression to designate all files which match that expression. For example, "*.c" designates all filenames which end in ".c". Many years ago, I thought about how the notation ** isn't useful (it would just be a synonym for *). and how it could be given another interesting meaning. I thought: why not allow it to match files within subdirectories too. I mentioned this to Rob Pike and he responded: bad idea because the file structure might not be a tree: - a DAG (Directed Acyclic Graph) due to hard links for files - worse due to symlinks (which I still think of as evil) - there was some thought of allowing hard links to directories (hasn't yet happened) So I dropped the idea. Fast forward a couple of decades: BASH 4 has this very feature. Surely not due to my suggestion. I tried it for the first time today. I wrote "**.c". It didn't work the way I expected. But "**" did. Huh? According to :V4: when the shell option globstar is set, the glob ** will recursively match all files and directories. This glob isn't "configurable", i.e. you can't do something like **.c to recursively get all *.c filenames. The use of the word "configurable" seems really peculiar to me. For one thing, it is configurable: ** only works if you enable the "globstar" option. For another, what they clearly mean is composable: you cannot compose it with other regular expression operators (which includes literal elements). Not being composable seems really really dumb. Back to using the awkward but powerful find(1). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 24 21:34:14 2011 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 17:34:14 -0400 Subject: bash's globstar considered dumb (** not composable) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E7E4CD6.6040107@the-wire.com> On 11-09-24 04:17 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > In the shell, you can write a kind of regular expression to designate > all files which match that expression. For example, "*.c" designates > all filenames which end in ".c". > > Many years ago, I thought about how the notation ** isn't useful (it > would just be a synonym for *). and how it could be given another > interesting meaning. I thought: why not allow it to match files > within subdirectories too. Multics used the notation, but Multics filenames (actually segment names, but we're not going to quibble) were formally made up of components separated by '.' . "*" in a starname would match any single component or part of a component of a filename: "*.pl1" would match "a.pl1" or "b.pl1" but not "a.b.pl1" "a*.pl1" would match "a.pl1", "ab.pl1", "abc.pl1", etc. "*.*.pl1" would match "a.b.pl1" "a.*.pl1" would match "a.b.pl1" but not "a.b.c.pl1" "**" would match an number of components: "**.pl1" would match anything ending in ".pl1" "a.**.pl1" would match anything starting with "a." and ending in ".pl1" "a**" would match anything starting with "a" . (Sure hope I've remembered this right.) Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 25 18:52:43 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 14:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: big disk drives: a threshold Message-ID: I need to buy a new big disk drive. Slow is OK. 2T "green" drives seem to be a sweet spot. WD 2T is $70 this weekend Other brands are a little more expensive or have shorter warranties (Seagate). Samsung and Hitachi have the advantage over WD and Seagate that (I think) they let you set a bound on error recovery time, something you need to do if you are going to sensibly RAID the drives. Soon Samsung and Hitachi will disappear from the disk drive market (their disk drive divisions have been bought by WD and Seagate -- scary). WD 3T green is $120 this weekend Tempting, even though the price per byte is a bit higher. I don't think I can use the 3T drive. I hope I'm wrong. So I'll lay out my reasoning: - the WD30EZRX drive has 4K byte sectors. I don't think that it pretends to have 512 byte (earlier models did) - I don't think that older BIOSes (perhaps most without UEFI booting) understand booting from 4K sectors. Do new BIOSes get this right? - as far as I know, none of my computers has a BIOS that knows about UEFI. Other issues: - to use more than 2T, you need to use GPT partitioning OR larger than 512 byte sectors. - using GPT isn't a problem because it can be made to look enough like an old fashioned partition table to get a BIOS to boot from it. Once booted, Linux can handle GPT (and 4k sectors). But it does take care. - using larger than 512 byte sectors just to use the old fashioned partition table probably isn't useful because so many old things break with larger sectors anyway. Have I missed something? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 25 23:56:54 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 19:56:54 -0400 Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: <20110920012632.GA10868@amber> References: <4E77D03C.5020702@ve3syb.ca> <20110920012632.GA10868@amber> Message-ID: So ironically just the other day I walked by an hp Laserjet 2100 someone had thrown out. Just plugged it in and it prints fine. Now I have to find a cheap print server Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Peter King wrote: > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 07:29:00PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > >> On 11-09-19 08:25 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: >> > I'm looking for a smallish laser printer. I have an old laser jet 6p that >> > seems to print forever on a cartridge. Is there anything out there like >> > that ? Smaller, more modern, ie USB ? >> >> I recently picked up a Samsung ML1865W laser printer that was on sale at my >> local Best Buy. My other choice was an HP P1102W, both of similar size. The >> Samsung W model was (and still is) on sale, has built-in WiFi, and is less >> expensive than either the ML1865 (no WiFi) or the HP. The replacement toner >> cartridges for the Samsung are less expensive than the HP and has better >> support for Linux than the HP using drivers you can download from the >> Samsung website. > > I bought the HP 1102w, and I can testify that support for Linux isn't quite > where it should be. I have it running with the Foomatic foo2zjs-z2, but the > margins aren't quite right, and it doesn't permit much fine-grained handling. > It works like a charm with OS X, so it isn't the printer. Unfortunately, the > hplip drivers somehow can't cope with this printer. So it's second-rate output > unless you get to the level of fussing with the details of the driver, which > I haven't done yet, and don't really think I should have to do. If the Samsung > is better supported, then don't bother with the HP. > > -- > Peter King ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON ?M5R 2M8 > ? ? ? CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC ?36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 26 01:13:56 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 18:13:56 -0700 Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: References: <4E77D03C.5020702@ve3syb.ca> <20110920012632.GA10868@amber> Message-ID: What, no linux server running at home? :-) On Sep 25, 2011 4:58 PM, "Dave Cramer" wrote: > So ironically just the other day I walked by an hp Laserjet 2100 > someone had thrown out. Just plugged it in and it prints fine. > > Now I have to find a cheap print server > > Dave Cramer > VP Software Development > Visible Assets Inc. > www.visibleassets.com > > > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Peter King wrote: >> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 07:29:00PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: >> >>> On 11-09-19 08:25 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: >>> > I'm looking for a smallish laser printer. I have an old laser jet 6p that >>> > seems to print forever on a cartridge. Is there anything out there like >>> > that ? Smaller, more modern, ie USB ? >>> >>> I recently picked up a Samsung ML1865W laser printer that was on sale at my >>> local Best Buy. My other choice was an HP P1102W, both of similar size. The >>> Samsung W model was (and still is) on sale, has built-in WiFi, and is less >>> expensive than either the ML1865 (no WiFi) or the HP. The replacement toner >>> cartridges for the Samsung are less expensive than the HP and has better >>> support for Linux than the HP using drivers you can download from the >>> Samsung website. >> >> I bought the HP 1102w, and I can testify that support for Linux isn't quite >> where it should be. I have it running with the Foomatic foo2zjs-z2, but the >> margins aren't quite right, and it doesn't permit much fine-grained handling. >> It works like a charm with OS X, so it isn't the printer. Unfortunately, the >> hplip drivers somehow can't cope with this printer. So it's second-rate output >> unless you get to the level of fussing with the details of the driver, which >> I haven't done yet, and don't really think I should have to do. If the Samsung >> is better supported, then don't bother with the HP. >> >> -- >> Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org >> Department of Philosophy >> 170 St. George Street #521 >> The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc >> Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 >> CANADA >> >> http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ >> >> ========================================================================= >> GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) >> gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 26 01:22:49 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:22:49 -0400 Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: References: <4E77D03C.5020702@ve3syb.ca> <20110920012632.GA10868@amber> Message-ID: The goal was to give this to my daughter at school with a minimum of fuss. I certainly have a linux server doing my printing. Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > What, no linux server running at home? :-) > > On Sep 25, 2011 4:58 PM, "Dave Cramer" wrote: >> So ironically just the other day I walked by an hp Laserjet 2100 >> someone had thrown out. Just plugged it in and it prints fine. >> >> Now I have to find a cheap print server >> >> Dave Cramer >> VP Software Development >> Visible Assets Inc. >> www.visibleassets.com >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Peter King >> wrote: >>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 07:29:00PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: >>> >>>> On 11-09-19 08:25 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: >>>> > I'm looking for a smallish laser printer. I have an old laser jet 6p >>>> > that >>>> > seems to print forever on a cartridge. Is there anything out there >>>> > like >>>> > that ? Smaller, more modern, ie USB ? >>>> >>>> I recently picked up a Samsung ML1865W laser printer that was on sale at >>>> my >>>> local Best Buy. My other choice was an HP P1102W, both of similar size. >>>> The >>>> Samsung W model was (and still is) on sale, has built-in WiFi, and is >>>> less >>>> expensive than either the ML1865 (no WiFi) or the HP. The replacement >>>> toner >>>> cartridges for the Samsung are less expensive than the HP and has better >>>> support for Linux than the HP using drivers you can download from the >>>> Samsung website. >>> >>> I bought the HP 1102w, and I can testify that support for Linux isn't >>> quite >>> where it should be. I have it running with the Foomatic foo2zjs-z2, but >>> the >>> margins aren't quite right, and it doesn't permit much fine-grained >>> handling. >>> It works like a charm with OS X, so it isn't the printer. Unfortunately, >>> the >>> hplip drivers somehow can't cope with this printer. So it's second-rate >>> output >>> unless you get to the level of fussing with the details of the driver, >>> which >>> I haven't done yet, and don't really think I should have to do. If the >>> Samsung >>> is better supported, then don't bother with the HP. >>> >>> -- >>> Peter King ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org >>> Department of Philosophy >>> 170 St. George Street #521 >>> The University of Toronto ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (416)-978-4951 ofc >>> Toronto, ON ?M5R 2M8 >>> ? ? ? CANADA >>> >>> http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ >>> >>> ========================================================================= >>> GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC ?36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) >>> gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 26 03:02:15 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 23:02:15 -0400 Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: References: <4E77D03C.5020702@ve3syb.ca> <20110920012632.GA10868@amber> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > So ironically just the other day I walked by an hp Laserjet 2100 > someone had thrown out. Just plugged it in and it prints fine. > > Now I have to find a cheap print server > > Dave Cramer > VP Software Development > Visible Assets Inc. > www.visibleassets.com > I got an old jetdirect card from http://computation.to/ for my Laserjet 2200 a couple of years ago for $10. They had a bunch back then and they specialize in old stuff; maybe they still have some. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 26 04:37:19 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 00:37:19 -0400 Subject: bash's globstar considered dumb (** not composable) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110926043718.GA2607@node1.opengeometry.net> I think '**' came into Bash from Zsh. -- William On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 04:17:49PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > In the shell, you can write a kind of regular expression to designate > all files which match that expression. For example, "*.c" designates > all filenames which end in ".c". > > Many years ago, I thought about how the notation ** isn't useful (it > would just be a synonym for *). and how it could be given another > interesting meaning. I thought: why not allow it to match files > within subdirectories too. > > I mentioned this to Rob Pike and he responded: bad idea because the > file structure might not be a tree: > > - a DAG (Directed Acyclic Graph) due to hard links for files > > - worse due to symlinks (which I still think of as evil) > > - there was some thought of allowing hard links to directories (hasn't > yet happened) > > So I dropped the idea. > > Fast forward a couple of decades: BASH 4 has this very feature. > Surely not due to my suggestion. > > I tried it for the first time today. I wrote "**.c". It didn't work > the way I expected. But "**" did. Huh? According to > > > :V4: when the shell option globstar is set, the glob ** will > recursively match all files and directories. This glob isn't > "configurable", i.e. you can't do something like **.c to recursively > get all *.c filenames. > > The use of the word "configurable" seems really peculiar to me. For > one thing, it is configurable: ** only works if you enable the > "globstar" option. For another, what they clearly mean is composable: > you cannot compose it with other regular expression operators (which > includes literal elements). > > Not being composable seems really really dumb. > > Back to using the awkward but powerful find(1). > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 26 10:20:06 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 06:20:06 -0400 Subject: laser printer for school In-Reply-To: References: <4E77D03C.5020702@ve3syb.ca> <20110920012632.GA10868@amber> Message-ID: Thanks, That is the way to go . Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Andrej Marjan wrote: > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Dave Cramer > wrote: >> >> So ironically just the other day I walked by an hp Laserjet 2100 >> someone had thrown out. Just plugged it in and it prints fine. >> >> Now I have to find a cheap print server >> >> Dave Cramer >> VP Software Development >> Visible Assets Inc. >> www.visibleassets.com > > I got an old jetdirect card from http://computation.to/ for my Laserjet 2200 > a couple of years ago for $10. They had a bunch back then and they > specialize in old stuff; maybe they still have some. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 26 14:57:09 2011 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:57:09 -0400 Subject: An annoyance with Dolphin on Ubuntu Message-ID: <1317049029.14601.60.camel@jimslaptop> Hi does anyone know how I can fix my Dolphin installation on Ubuntu 11.04. For some reason it doesn't update unless I close and open it again. For example I know I put a new file in a folder but I can't see it in the folder in Dolphin. If I close and re-open Dolphin it shows up. Anyone have any thoughts on this. I would expect it to show my updated files immediately? Thanks. Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From voidpointer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 26 15:24:22 2011 From: voidpointer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Nicolaides) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 11:24:22 -0400 Subject: An annoyance with Dolphin on Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <1317049029.14601.60.camel@jimslaptop> References: <1317049029.14601.60.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: Hey Jim, I just started using Kubuntu 11.04 on my laptop and while I don't have the same issue you are you may want to try resetting your configuration for Dolphin. Close all Dolphin windows and delete the following: ~/.kde/share/config/dolphinrc ~/.kde/share/apps/dolphin When you restart Dolphin it will be back to defaults but it may clear yoru issue. Question: if you press the F5 key does the window update? Cheers, Jason On 26 September 2011 10:57, jim wrote: > Hi does anyone know how I can fix my Dolphin installation on Ubuntu > 11.04. For some reason it doesn't update unless I close and open it > again. For example I know I put a new file in a folder but I can't see > it in the folder in Dolphin. If I close and re-open Dolphin it shows up. > Anyone have any thoughts on this. I would expect it to show my updated > files immediately? > Thanks. > Jim > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 26 16:27:04 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 12:27:04 -0400 Subject: big disk drives: a threshold In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110926162704.GC15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 02:52:43PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I need to buy a new big disk drive. Slow is OK. > > 2T "green" drives seem to be a sweet spot. > > WD 2T is $70 this weekend > > > Other brands are a little more expensive or have shorter warranties > (Seagate). And a bad reputation for screwing up SATA drive firmware in very serious ways. > Samsung and Hitachi have the advantage over WD and Seagate that (I > think) they let you set a bound on error recovery time, something you > need to do if you are going to sensibly RAID the drives. Soon Samsung > and Hitachi will disappear from the disk drive market (their disk drive > divisions have been bought by WD and Seagate -- scary). WD used to have that, now they expect you to pay extra for a raid edition drive. > WD 3T green is $120 this weekend > > Tempting, even though the price per byte is a bit higher. > > I don't think I can use the 3T drive. I hope I'm wrong. So I'll lay > out my reasoning: > > - the WD30EZRX drive has 4K byte sectors. I don't think that it > pretends to have 512 byte (earlier models did) It apparently correctly shows as 4K physical sectors, 512 byte logical sectors. So that should be no problem. You do have to use a recent enough kernel that it supports drives over 2TB correctly. Apparently some older kernels at least on 32bit x86 are limited to 2^32 logical sectors, and hence 2TB. They will show the 3TB drive as 800GB. > - I don't think that older BIOSes (perhaps most without UEFI booting) > understand booting from 4K sectors. Do new BIOSes get this right? I believe all drives currently use 512 byte logical sectors, and the bios just uses those. As long as the bootloader is in the early part of the disk I would not expect any problems with that. > - as far as I know, none of my computers has a BIOS that knows about > UEFI. > > Other issues: > > - to use more than 2T, you need to use GPT partitioning OR larger than > 512 byte sectors. You really need to use GPT. > - using GPT isn't a problem because it can be made to look enough like > an old fashioned partition table to get a BIOS to boot from it. > Once booted, Linux can handle GPT (and 4k sectors). > But it does take care. Grub in the first sector of the disk using GPT works fine even if the BIOS has no clue about GPT. > - using larger than 512 byte sectors just to use the old fashioned > partition table probably isn't useful because so many old things > break with larger sectors anyway. I would certainly expect things to break. > Have I missed something? Not sure. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 26 18:19:16 2011 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:19:16 -0400 Subject: An annoyance with Dolphin on Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <1317049029.14601.60.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: <1317061156.25281.3.camel@jimslaptop> Thanks Jason > Hey Jim, > > > I just started using Kubuntu 11.04 on my laptop and while I don't have > the same issue you are you may want to try resetting your > configuration for Dolphin. Close all Dolphin windows and delete the > following: > > > ~/.kde/share/config/dolphinrc > ~/.kde/share/apps/dolphin > > > When you restart Dolphin it will be back to defaults but it may clear > yoru issue. > > > Question: if you press the F5 key does the window update? Yes this worked! I'll look into the preferences and see what I can do there to make the update automatic. Cheers, Jim > > On 26 September 2011 10:57, jim wrote: > Hi does anyone know how I can fix my Dolphin installation on > Ubuntu > 11.04. For some reason it doesn't update unless I close and > open it > again. For example I know I put a new file in a folder but I > can't see > it in the folder in Dolphin. If I close and re-open Dolphin it > shows up. > Anyone have any thoughts on this. I would expect it to show my > updated > files immediately? > Thanks. > Jim > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 27 17:33:09 2011 From: slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:33:09 -0400 Subject: Interesting Portable Message-ID: <85hb3xdh5e.fsf@azurservers.com> The shape of things to come? http://technologyinnovationsite.com/system-of-innovation-folding-portable-computer-rolltop -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 27 17:54:24 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:54:24 -0400 Subject: Interesting Portable In-Reply-To: <85hb3xdh5e.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <85hb3xdh5e.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <20110927175424.GD15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 01:33:09PM -0400, Slack Rat wrote: > The shape of things to come? > > http://technologyinnovationsite.com/system-of-innovation-folding-portable-computer-rolltop I hope not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 27 15:10:25 2011 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 11:10:25 -0400 Subject: Interesting Portable In-Reply-To: <20110927175424.GD15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <85hb3xdh5e.fsf@azurservers.com> <20110927175424.GD15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Related, Samsung announced a phone with a flexible AMOLED screen - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8790189/Flexible-Samsung-phone-to-be-issued-in-2012.html But that laptop looks impossible with our current tech. Sadiq Saif http://asininetech.com http://entropynet.net On Sep 27, 2011, at 1:54 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 01:33:09PM -0400, Slack Rat wrote: >> The shape of things to come? >> >> http://technologyinnovationsite.com/system-of-innovation-folding-portable-computer-rolltop > > I hope not. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 28 20:08:49 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 16:08:49 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer : -------------------------------------------------------------------- Grant has been moved out of ICU into a normal ward. He is still not fully conscious, although we have seen some activity on his part. Still a long road to go. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 00:15:59 2011 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:15:59 -0400 Subject: Nagios Configuration Tool - NConf Message-ID: Hi, I'm about to embark on a project to update our existing Nagios implementation. I've used NConf in a test environment and it seems pretty good. The problem is the latest version appears to have been from 2009, without any changes made since. Has anyone implemented any other Nagios configuration tools? I noticed there is a Webmin module for it too. Thank you! John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 00:19:02 2011 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:19:02 -0400 Subject: Nagios Configuration Tool - NConf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ugh.. I just noticed that the last update for Nconf was quite recent - May 31 2011. Doh. Well, anyone have any recommendations on other Nagios configuration tools? Thanks again, John. On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 8:15 PM, John Miles wrote: > Hi, > > I'm about to embark on a project to update our existing Nagios > implementation. > I've used NConf in a test environment and it seems pretty good. > The problem is the latest version appears to have been from 2009, without > any changes made since. > > Has anyone implemented any other Nagios configuration tools? > I noticed there is a Webmin module for it too. > > Thank you! > > John. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 02:09:59 2011 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 22:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Nagios Configuration Tool - NConf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Sep 2011, John Miles wrote: > Has anyone implemented any other Nagios configuration tools? > I noticed there is a Webmin module for it too. I have used NagiosQL (http://www.nagiosql.org/) in the past. Managed about 2500 checks with it. Found the grouping features really nice. Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 02:13:08 2011 From: rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rafael Carneiro) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 22:13:08 -0400 Subject: Nagios Configuration Tool - NConf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have been using Opsview for about 3 years now. I started off with plain nagios and shell/perl scripts to manage config files. I was ok with that, but it was always hard to get new people to understand nagios and not mess it up. The ease of management that Opsview provides, along with the already integrated plugins (performance data graphing, mrtg, nmis, ldap auth to name a few), made it a no brainer. It can also handle distributed monitoring in a master-slave configuration which is quite nice for external monitoring as well as large environments (I used to monitor 800+ hosts/10000+ services). They offer a paid (enterprise) version, which I never used. The community version does everything I need, and they monitor their forums - so you can get support there. Documentation is also good. Rafael On Wednesday, September 28, 2011, John Miles wrote: > Ugh.. I just noticed that the last update for Nconf was quite recent - May 31 2011. > Doh. > > Well, anyone have any recommendations on other Nagios configuration tools? > > Thanks again, > > John. > > On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 8:15 PM, John Miles wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I'm about to embark on a project to update our existing Nagios implementation. >> I've used NConf in a test environment and it seems pretty good. >> The problem is the latest version appears to have been from 2009, without any changes made since. >> >> Has anyone implemented any other Nagios configuration tools? >> I noticed there is a Webmin module for it too. >> >> Thank you! >> >> John. > > -- Rafael Carneiro, BEng http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rcarneiro -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 13:07:04 2011 From: slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 09:07:04 -0400 Subject: Rollup PC was a "No-No" Message-ID: <85pqij33an.fsf@azurservers.com> So how about this? At least "The Price is Right" <> Piccy: http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/09/28/56896133.html (Courtesy: TASS) Or This: http://thetechjournal.com/electronics/indian-tablet-maker-releases-another-ultra-cheap-device-the-50-allgo.xhtml -- Slackrat Flying the Flag of the English http://usera.imagecave.com/daveycrockett/englishdragon.jpg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 14:19:36 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:19:36 -0400 Subject: Interesting Portable In-Reply-To: References: <85hb3xdh5e.fsf@azurservers.com> <20110927175424.GD15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E847E78.2010408@ss.org> On 09/27/2011 11:10 AM, Sadiq Saif wrote: > Related, Samsung announced a phone with a flexible AMOLED screen - > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8790189/Flexible-Samsung-phone-to-be-issued-in-2012.html > > But that laptop looks impossible with our current tech. > > Sadiq Saif > http://asininetech.com > http://entropynet.net > That is correct. The Roll-up design was released as an Artists concept and I remember seeing 6-9 months ago. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 14:25:40 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:25:40 -0400 Subject: Rollup PC was a "No-No" In-Reply-To: <85pqij33an.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <85pqij33an.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <4E847FE4.4080108@ss.org> On 09/29/2011 09:07 AM, Slack Rat wrote: > So how about this? > > At least "The Price is Right" > > < the country?s Minister of Communications Kapil Sibal reports.>> > > Piccy: > http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/09/28/56896133.html > > (Courtesy: TASS) > > Or This: > http://thetechjournal.com/electronics/indian-tablet-maker-releases-another-ultra-cheap-device-the-50-allgo.xhtml > If they actually manage to ship it, great. But it's been a while since it was announced. They also have to hit rather high volumes to bring the price that low, something they aren't doing yet. With the One Laptop Per Child XO, many do regret the $100 moniker of it. It was a worthy goal price, and at an average production cost $150 they came far closer then most anyone else. But people still hold them to the $100 as if they failed. The now over a Million Kids who's lives have been improved by the existence of the projects surrounding his platform certainly don't care. It's already bought them better futures. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 15:57:11 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 11:57:11 -0400 Subject: Rollup PC was a "No-No" In-Reply-To: <4E847FE4.4080108-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <85pqij33an.fsf@azurservers.com> <4E847FE4.4080108@ss.org> Message-ID: <20110929155711.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:25:40AM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: > If they actually manage to ship it, great. But it's been a while since > it was announced. They also have to hit rather high volumes to bring the > price that low, something they aren't doing yet. > > With the One Laptop Per Child XO, many do regret the $100 moniker of it. > It was a worthy goal price, and at an average production cost $150 they > came far closer then most anyone else. But people still hold them to the > $100 as if they failed. > > The now over a Million Kids who's lives have been improved by the > existence of the projects surrounding his platform certainly don't care. > It's already bought them better futures. Have they been improved? What if the money spent buying them had been spent on something else to improve education in those areas? The OLPC project has always looked like some clueless idiot with money in the west trying to solve a problem he doesn't understand using technology he thinks he understands, but doesn't understand how could even be useful without the other parts of society around him. What good is a computer unless you have the infrastructure around it, with teachers that know how to use it and teach with it, and people to service them (although a few places the kids seem to have taken that upon themselves). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 16:29:47 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 12:29:47 -0400 Subject: Rollup PC was a "No-No" In-Reply-To: <20110929155711.GE15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <85pqij33an.fsf@azurservers.com> <4E847FE4.4080108@ss.org> <20110929155711.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:25:40AM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: > > If they actually manage to ship it, great. But it's been a while since > > it was announced. They also have to hit rather high volumes to bring the > > price that low, something they aren't doing yet. > > > > With the One Laptop Per Child XO, many do regret the $100 moniker of it. > > It was a worthy goal price, and at an average production cost $150 they > > came far closer then most anyone else. But people still hold them to the > > $100 as if they failed. > > > > The now over a Million Kids who's lives have been improved by the > > existence of the projects surrounding his platform certainly don't care. > > It's already bought them better futures. > > Have they been improved? > > What if the money spent buying them had been spent on something else to > improve education in those areas? > > The OLPC project has always looked like some clueless idiot with money in > the west trying to solve a problem he doesn't understand using technology > he thinks he understands, but doesn't understand how could even be useful > without the other parts of society around him. > > What good is a computer unless you have the infrastructure around it, > with teachers that know how to use it and teach with it, and people to > service them (although a few places the kids seem to have taken that > upon themselves). > I think that just like Snow Crash inspired hordes of programmers to work on virtual worlds, so The Diamond Age inspired the OLPC. What they missed was the humans embedded in the original Illustrated Primer, and the magical AI powering the mass-produced Illustrated Primers. Also a sound, proven educational model. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 16:58:58 2011 From: slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 12:58:58 -0400 Subject: Rollup PC was a "No-No" In-Reply-To: <4E847FE4.4080108-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> (Scott Sullivan's message of "Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:25:40 -0400") References: <85pqij33an.fsf@azurservers.com> <4E847FE4.4080108@ss.org> Message-ID: <85zkhnl1xx.fsf@azurservers.com> Scott Sullivan a ?crit profondement: | If they actually manage to ship it, great. But it's been a while since | it was announced. They also have to hit rather high volumes to bring the | price that low, something they aren't doing yet. the One Laptop Per Child XO, many do regret the $100 moniker of it. | It was a worthy goal price, and at an average production cost $150 they | came far closer then most anyone else. But people still hold them to the | $100 as if they failed. | The now over a Million Kids who's lives have been improved by the | existence of the projects surrounding his platform certainly don't care. | It's already bought them better futures. Thanks Scott. I travel very often and am fed up of transporting "LapTops", etc.. So I'm on the lookout for a cheap - Won't be Happy but not too Upset if it gets stolen - tiny box that I can put a basic Slack system on. Like packages "A"(system-essential, "L"(Lib) and "N"(Net), which will allow me to connect to my servers in France, etc. Searching around, it does appear that there's lots of VapourWare out there but not too much in the "Here and Now" as you pointed out. So I'm going to buy a cheap machine from. http://www.chinabuye.com/mini-7inch-laptop-lcd-win-ce-via-vt8650-600mhz-2gb-hd-wifi-netbook and see how that works out. I tested ChinaBuye out last week, buying a 4 band, dual SIM portable/cell phone and a pair of binoculars with built in camera, both of which items I need, or more realistically want, for $72 the lot, shipped, insured and tracked, and am happy with the products and the ChinaBuye Company itself. So there not apparently being anything I can handle before I buy, I'm going to stick my neck out for the above, or similar, box which will cost less than $75 (Shipping free, but insurance and tracking cost $2 - $3) (Incidentally they downscale the price and ship it as a "Gift" too). Thanks for your response. -- Slackrat Flying the Flag of the English http://usera.imagecave.com/daveycrockett/englishdragon.jpg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 17:38:02 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:38:02 -0400 Subject: Rollup PC was a "No-No" In-Reply-To: <85zkhnl1xx.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <85pqij33an.fsf@azurservers.com> <4E847FE4.4080108@ss.org> <85zkhnl1xx.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <20110929173802.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:58:58PM -0400, Slack Rat wrote: > Thanks Scott. > > I travel very often and am fed up of transporting "LapTops", etc.. > > So I'm on the lookout for a cheap - Won't be Happy but not too Upset if > it gets stolen - tiny box that I can put a basic Slack system on. Like > packages "A"(system-essential, "L"(Lib) and "N"(Net), which will allow > me to connect to my servers in France, etc. Slackware isn't exactly known for being the most ported of linux distributions. Being restricted to x86 would certainly limit options a lot. They do appear to have an arm and an ibm mainframe port. Not sure if they are complete, or which arm variants they support. Of course since I really don't miss the state of the art in linux distributions of 1993, I have no interest in slackware what so ever. > Searching around, it does appear that there's lots of VapourWare out there > but not too much in the "Here and Now" as you pointed out. > > So I'm going to buy a cheap machine from. > http://www.chinabuye.com/mini-7inch-laptop-lcd-win-ce-via-vt8650-600mhz-2gb-hd-wifi-netbook > and see how that works out. The specs are certainly incorrect. It is NOT a VIA VT8650 CPU. It is an ARM926 cpu, made by samsung as far as I can tell. The companion chip is likely a VIA VTsomething (there is no such thing as a VT8650 from VIA according to VIA's website). Seems they exist both with android 2.2 (but not official and not supported by google app store), and with windows ce. Not sure what use either one would be. > I tested ChinaBuye out last week, buying a 4 band, dual SIM > portable/cell phone and a pair of binoculars with built in camera, both > of which items I need, or more realistically want, for $72 the lot, > shipped, insured and tracked, and am happy with the products and the > ChinaBuye Company itself. > > So there not apparently being anything I can handle before I buy, I'm > going to stick my neck out for the above, or similar, box which will > cost less than $75 (Shipping free, but insurance and tracking cost > $2 - $3) > > (Incidentally they downscale the price and ship it as a "Gift" too). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 18:54:46 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 14:54:46 -0400 Subject: Nagios Configuration Tool - NConf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E84BEF6.7020204@utoronto.ca> On 09/28/2011 08:15 PM, John Miles wrote: > Hi, > > I'm about to embark on a project to update our existing Nagios > implementation. > I've used NConf in a test environment and it seems pretty good. > The problem is the latest version appears to have been from 2009, without > any changes made since. > > Has anyone implemented any other Nagios configuration tools? > I noticed there is a Webmin module for it too. nagios is being supplanted by a fork called icinga. Check it out - there are packages in Debian & Ubuntu and it is built by a community of ex-Nagios users who wanted to address some of the political, development, and architectural shortcomings of Nagios. https://www.icinga.org/nagios/feature-comparison/ There is a migration path as well, though I haven't had to resort to it: https://www.icinga.org/nagios/upgrade-from-nagios/ Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 29 19:24:40 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 15:24:40 -0400 Subject: Nagios Configuration Tool - NConf In-Reply-To: <4E84BEF6.7020204-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E84BEF6.7020204@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > nagios is being supplanted by a fork called icinga. Check it out - there > are packages in Debian & Ubuntu and it is built by a community of > ex-Nagios users who wanted to address some of the political, > development, and architectural shortcomings of Nagios. > > https://www.icinga.org/nagios/feature-comparison/ It is curious to take a peek at the flip side of this... http://exchange.nagios.org/directory/Comparisons/Nagios-Comparison-To-Icinga/details I expect that the "intellectual property law violations" aspect represents a complaint that Icinga mayn't have been sufficiently quick to run "sed s/Nagios/Icinga/g" against the source code; it sure sounds like FUD... -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 30 11:00:54 2011 From: alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 07:00:54 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <4E7CCC90.6040203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <20110921234524.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7CCC90.6040203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <004501cc7f60$3a3e9670$aebbc350$@com> Sorry for the late weigh in, but here are some of my thoughts on this matter. Having read the discourses on this topic on this and another list, and having read the article, I can see the reason for concern. As far as I understand the situation, this has not moved past the discussion phase. If it comes to pass, then Linux users will be required to be more selective in their choice of hardware distributor. There are quite a few businesses that sell prebuilt machines without an operating system. If Microsoft chooses to implement this idea and, by virtue of their buying power, to coerce vendors into adopting it, then those that sell systems without an operating system can only benefit from the increased sales caused thereby. While this does pose a restriction on the possible number of previously constructed computers available, why is this a bad thing? Selling Windows as part of the computer purchase drives up the cost to all parties, especially the consumer. Additionally, it increases the perceived market share of Microsoft because the numbers touted do not reflect instances where Windows is immediately removed by the user. As there's no central body to maintain figures on the prevalence of Linux, and not everyone will report their preferences, there's no relevant data on the adoption of Linux. Really, this isn't much different than the tactics employed by Apple in regard to their computers. They force you to buy their hardware if you want the operating system. Why is there no hue and cry against them? Overall, I see this as something, that, should it happen, will be painful, but will ultimately benefit the consumer as more companies will be required to fill the need for computers without Windows. Alex Gabriel alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of James Knott Sent: September-23-11 2:15 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs Lennart Sorensen wrote: > But if they prevent unsigned code from running, they also prevent anything > pre windows 8 from running. MS might consider that an advantage. Can't have people reusing an OS they've already paid for, when they can be fleeced again. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 30 11:42:30 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 07:42:30 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <004501cc7f60$3a3e9670$aebbc350$@com> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <20110921234524.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7CCC90.6040203@rogers.com> <004501cc7f60$3a3e9670$aebbc350$@com> Message-ID: <4E85AB26.3030600@rogers.com> Alex Gabriel wrote: > Really, this isn't much different than the tactics employed by Apple in > regard to their computers. They force you to buy their hardware if you want > the operating system. Why is there no hue and cry against them? > > Apple sells a complete package, computer and OS. On the other hand, it is often difficult to buy a computer without Windows, even though Microsoft had absolutely no role in building that computer. If this plays out as some claim, then when you buy a new computer, you will have no option but to run Windows 8. Even on the Mac, you can still install Linux or Windows if you wish. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 30 15:26:17 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:26:17 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <004501cc7f60$3a3e9670$aebbc350$@com> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <20110921234524.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7CCC90.6040203@rogers.com> <004501cc7f60$3a3e9670$aebbc350$@com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Alex Gabriel wrote: > Overall, I see this as something, that, should it happen, will be painful, > but will ultimately benefit the consumer as more companies will be required > to fill the need for computers without Windows. Putting other issues aside, I agree with this sentiment - it may in fact be a boon to the still young Open Hardware movement. Well, one can hope anyway! -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 30 15:51:22 2011 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 18:51:22 +0300 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <20110921234524.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7CCC90.6040203@rogers.com> <004501cc7f60$3a3e9670$aebbc350$@com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Alex Gabriel > wrote: > > Overall, I see this as something, that, should it happen, will be > painful, > > but will ultimately benefit the consumer as more companies will be > required > > to fill the need for computers without Windows. > > > Putting other issues aside, I agree with this sentiment - it may in > fact be a boon to the still young Open Hardware movement. Well, one > can hope anyway! > I am not sure, most computers come today with windows installed and there aren't many companies selling computers without operating systems not because there is no demand for it but more because of the agreements microsoft forced them to sign. I of course would be happy if this will give a boost to open hardware and computers sold without Windows, but I am not so optimistic. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 30 16:01:59 2011 From: ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Ian Garmaise) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 12:01:59 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <20110921234524.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7CCC90.6040203@rogers.com> <004501cc7f60$3a3e9670$aebbc350$@com> Message-ID: The fact is, over 1% of computer users use linux as their primary OS. With that kind of overwhelming demand, what manufacturer wouldn't jump at the chance to produce a line of compatible hardware? Ian On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Ori Idan wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 7:00 AM, Alex Gabriel >> wrote: >> > Overall, I see this as something, that, should it happen, will be >> painful, >> > but will ultimately benefit the consumer as more companies will be >> required >> > to fill the need for computers without Windows. >> >> >> Putting other issues aside, I agree with this sentiment - it may in >> fact be a boon to the still young Open Hardware movement. Well, one >> can hope anyway! >> > I am not sure, most computers come today with windows installed and there > aren't many companies selling computers without operating systems not > because there is no demand for it but more because of the agreements > microsoft forced them to sign. > I of course would be happy if this will give a boost to open hardware and > computers sold without Windows, but I am not so optimistic. > > -- > Ori Idan > > -- ===== Ian Garmaise Consultant Phorix Solutions Group Inc. ian.g-m+eCFz0Wf2kS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Skype: iantor Toronto: 416.432.2251 NYC: 917.512.9535 http://www.PhorixSol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 30 18:24:30 2011 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 14:24:30 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <004501cc7f60$3a3e9670$aebbc350$@com> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <20110921234524.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7CCC90.6040203@rogers.com> <004501cc7f60$3a3e9670$aebbc350$@com> Message-ID: <20110930182429.GH17017@adb.ca> Alex Gabriel wrote: > If it comes to pass, then Linux users will be required to be more selective > in their choice of hardware distributor. There are quite a few businesses > that sell prebuilt machines without an operating system. There was an M$ campaign against that a few years back, "Naked PC" or something like that, claiming that anyone buying hardware only was *obviously* going to install a pirated copy of Windows. Now, I'm not sure how much of that actually goes on, or the current state of the arms race there, but I wouldn't bet a lot of money on that being less prevalent than the number of Linux installs. > Selling Windows as part of the computer purchase drives up the cost to all > parties, especially the consumer. Additionally, it increases the perceived > market share of Microsoft because the numbers touted do not reflect > instances where Windows is immediately removed by the user. I've heard claims that the fees a hardware vendor collects for installing third-party demo-ware (30-day-free antivirus and such) more than offsets what they pay M$ for the underlying OS, so software is a profit centre for them and it ends up being more favourable to do that than sell a machine bare, with side benefit that installing something helps prove to their QA and to the customer that the hardware actually boots. I'm not sure it entirely bothers them if you install Linux on such a box, since they did get to count it as a Windows sale, but making it too easy to nuke the OS probably causes them support issues helping people get it reinstalled, and the necessity of offering such support and making Windows field-installable may be a toehold the pirates are using to get Windows installed on other hardware. > Really, this isn't much different than the tactics employed by Apple in > regard to their computers. They force you to buy their hardware if you want > the operating system. Why is there no hue and cry against them? Apple sells its own integrated systems, while there's a theoretically hands-off third-party relationship between Microsoft and the PC hardware vendors that ends up looking a tad cozy. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 30 20:14:39 2011 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:14:39 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <20110930182429.GH17017-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <20110921234524.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7CCC90.6040203@rogers.com> <004501cc7f60$3a3e9670$aebbc350$@com> <20110930182429.GH17017@adb.ca> Message-ID: <4E86232F.4000309@rogers.com> So what will this do to motherboard sales? You build your own computer, you can only install windows???? Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 30 20:24:41 2011 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:24:41 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: <4E86232F.4000309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <20110921234524.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7CCC90.6040203@rogers.com> <004501cc7f60$3a3e9670$aebbc350$@com> <20110930182429.GH17017@adb.ca> <4E86232F.4000309@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Stephen wrote: > So what will this do to motherboard sales? > > You build your own computer, you can only install windows???? Only if you give Microsoft their cut... otherwise you can't install anything. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 30 20:33:51 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:33:51 -0400 Subject: Microsoft tries to block Linux off Windows 8 PCs In-Reply-To: References: <20110921212819.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7A592F.2050207@gmail.com> <20110921234524.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E7CCC90.6040203@rogers.com> <004501cc7f60$3a3e9670$aebbc350$@com> <20110930182429.GH17017@adb.ca> <4E86232F.4000309@rogers.com> Message-ID: > > > So what will this do to motherboard sales? > > > > You build your own computer, you can only install windows???? > > Only if you give Microsoft their cut... otherwise you can't install anytime I think motherboard sale will be fine as most of their customers are a tad geeky and most likely to be put off by this development. Another way to go about it is just buy mac and dual boot/un install OSX Anyway will result to lots of stuff breaking so there is a remote chance they will back off William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: