From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 00:53:46 2011 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:53:46 -0400 Subject: [OT] Bittorrent and Networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EAF431A.1000202@gmail.com> On 31/10/11 11:19, Thomas Milne wrote: > I have two linux machines on my network, with a Linksys WRT54G router > (running Tomato). If I run Transmission bittorrent client on one > machine, it's okay, but if both are running Transmission, the whole > network grinds to a halt. Even if I put a speed limit on both clients, > so that each only uses a small percentage of the bandwidth (admittedly > slim at around 2 Mb), it is still impossible to do anything else on > the network. > > Has anyone encountered a situation like this? I am a total beginner > when it comes to configuring routers, beyond port forwarding. > Wouldn't it be better to run just one bittorrent client and use vnc on the other machine? Hmmmm, I wonder if there's a way to tell a running x client to switch which xserver it's connected to. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 01:40:31 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:40:31 -0400 Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much In-Reply-To: <20111031220342.GZ30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4EACE508.9050005@gmail.com> <20111031162349.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 04:18:56PM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: >> Ok Lennart even though I've been told you can't pour more water into a >> full glass, still I'm going to try. > > Well you keep talking about LSB even though it has nothing to do with > this. LSB Init Scripts are for boot ordering. Besides why is it so convienient to have access to the headers, as you mention below? How about fine grained control over exit status as one thought? > >> Debian is an organization made up of humans. Package maintainers are >> humans, although some might argue differently. The organization Debian >> realized that there are problems developing and maintaining packages >> in the current manner. >> >> Dealing with an event driven kernel requires some elegance in a >> solution, elegance and and a modicum of recycling of code, at least in >> transition. >> >> This is part of that decision process in terms of when and how to >> inject and monitor commands in the ?initialization of the OS. > > Sure. ?I know what the LSB headers do. ?Nothing to do with this. ?I know Nothing to do with customizing ordering, as in when to initialize udev in the init process? When to start it initially to populate a device file system? When to understand when the devices are connected to their respective inodes by static and symbolic links? > how sysvinit works, and how insserv works (which is what Debian uses now). > > The point of insserv is to speed up booting by starting services in > parallel when possible and to start things in the right order, which > was tricky to arrange using sysvinit's numerical ordering only. > > [snip more irrelevant LSB stuff] > >> You were the one that warned about not taking the advice of people who >> don't know what they are doing. > > Well the bug report you orriginally posted a "fix" from, was one such > person. ?And the package maintainer said so in the 3rd comment. > Ths "workaround" was wrong and should not be followed. Here's the third comment, all the maintainer said was he was sure the system was broken in some way, with an if, and it's a pretty big if, if after rebuilding initramfs it still doesn't work. "Rebuild the initramfs. If it still does not work then run its scripts step by step as explained in the man page to find out why udevd is not being killed when it should be. But I am quite sure that you broke your system in some way." But see for me now udevd is being killed correctly. I didn't have to rebuild anything. I renamed one file. > > A proper workaround would likely have been "insserv -d udev". ?Simply > reset the start/stop state of udev to the defaults as specified in it's > LSB header (rather convinient to have such defaults there). ?The renaming > workaround did not do that. ?Far from it. > >> Is this you admitting you didn't really have an idea, oh my god >> Lennart, get a grip on things. > > I did not get involved in trying to fix the odd keyboard behaviour, > since I had nothing to contribute to it. ?On the other hand when someone > says they found a solution that is clearly a bad idea, that I do have > something to contribute to. ?Having archives of problems out there with > incorrect solutions listed as "the fix" without someone pointing out > that is it wrong is not productive. > >> What was the right solution you speak of? This is what I got from that thread. >> >> "It seems that this bug is still not understood, and not readily >> reproducible, so I don't think we should delay squeeze for it. ?If/when >> a fix becomes available it can still be considered, either before the >> release or for a point update." > > From having read the bug report the state was: > > The cause of keyboard issues was trying to start udev twice. > > The udev package itself could never have caused this to happen. > > Someone had managed to make gnome's service manager create such an > incorrect duplicate symlink file that caused the problem. ?Whether this > was the only way it could happen is unknown. > > The original bug reporter suggested a work around involving renaming > one of the runlevel symlink files, which certainly stopped udev from > trying to start twice, but unfortunately should cause it to stop instead. The guy who posted the fix actually said to rename the scripts in two folders rc2.d and rc3.d > The package maintainer pointed out this was not the right way to fix it. > It was the package maintainer who snipped out the second one in his reply. That's why I don't like all this snipping of posts, it confuses things. > So the attempt at starting udev twice caused the problem. ?What caused > the extra start script for udev was unclear. > > So the correct solution is to remove the incorrect link for udev in > runlevels 2, 3, 4 and 5. ?The wrong solution is renaming the wrong link > to a stop link from a start link. ?The udev package never created those > links and does not work with them, so removing them makes sense. > > It doesn't solve how the wrong link came to be unfortunately, which is > what the bug report seems to be stuck at. > >> You see from my point of view, in all this there is no right or wrong, >> only functional and non-functional. > > On current debian systems, udev is by design supposed to start in runlevel > S (startup), and stay running. ?By renaming the extra start script in > runlevel 2 to a stop script, the setup now says to start udev in runlevel > S and then stop it when moving to runlevel 2. ?Clearly that is not how > the system was designed to run, so it is wrong. ?It would seem in this > case that perhaps that isn't what turns out to happen, but it is what > that configuration should cause to happen. ?So the configuration doesn't > match what should happen, hence it is wrong. This hardware is now working as it was before the IO problems, hence it is right. Or are you looking at this like the new math I had to learn in the 70's. It doesn't matter that the answer is wrong, as long as the work is shown to have been done correctly. > > I am tempted to create a virtual machine and go create the extra link > for udev and then rename it to try and figure out why it isn't doing > what is should be doing. ?It could be another bug after all, which if > fixed would turn the "bad" workaround into a broken system again. > >> Since both keyboards and mice work when they are plugged in, hot or on >> boot, as well as the other usb device's I had to fool with at the >> time, the usb Multi Function Unit and various usb dongles, what's >> broken here? > > The only thing broken seems to be the config and the fact that the > system appears to not be entirely following it. ?Clearly the keyboard > is working. ?Certainly the renaming work around does not put the system > back into the state a freshly installed system would be (which would only > have the udev links in rcS.d since udev never stops on normal systems). See maybe thats part of the problem, if you are not hot plugging anything and the static system is working, why bother with udev? >From what I see udev has some problems with uniformly re-identifying nodes when the bus is polled on a new trigger. It can take a bit of work to sort issues out when that happens. It's easier to figure out stuff now with udevadm attribute-walk but still, does udev need to run as a dameon, why not just kickstart it with some other kernel event. > It would not have any S or K scripts for udev in any other runlevel. > > lennartsorensen:~# ls -l /etc/*/*udev > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 8047 Jun ?4 20:35 /etc/init.d/udev > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root ? 14 May 13 ?2010 /etc/rcS.d/S02udev -> ../init.d/udev > > That's all I see on a normal install. > >> I can't tell from the hardware and neither can you from your theories. >> Yet you pontificate on the right solution, when you still don't >> understand the problem. >> >> That's what's broken here Lennart, you don't understand the problem. >> >> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=208010 > > What does LSB init scripts have to do with whether something creates an > extra link to udev's init script breaks things? So I can deal with udev the way I need to. Remember one person's bug is another person's feature. But hey, if you can get your virtual machine built and broken by next Sunday, I'll be up at buddies trying to explain to him why his real working computer is so abnormal. We can compare notes then. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 01:46:43 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:46:43 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you think this is what the problem is gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] If so I think I read about this somewhere, check the nautilus mime types for invalid entry's. On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I wan't paying attention when I did an update and said 'y' when I > should not have. So now I have this situation: > > node1:/home/joehill# apt-get upgrade > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these. > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > ?brasero-cdrkit : Depends: libbrasero-media3-1 (= 3.0.0-4) but it is > not installed > ?empathy : Depends: empathy-common (= 3.2.0.1-1) but 2.30.3-1 is installed > ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gstreamer0.10-gconf but it is not installed > ?evince : Depends: libevince3-3 (= 3.2.1-1) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? ?Depends: evince-common (>= 3.2) but 2.30.3-3 is installed > ?file-roller : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is > not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: nautilus-data (>= 3.0) but 2.30.1-3 is installed > ?gnome-disk-utility : Depends: libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 (>= 0.6.30) but it > is not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libgdu-gtk0 (>= 3.0.0) but 2.32.1-1 is installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but > it is not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libunique-3.0-0 (>= 2.90.1) but it is > not installed > ?nautilus : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: nautilus-data (>= 3.0) but 2.30.1-3 is installed > ?nautilus-actions : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it > is not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libunique-3.0-0 (>= 2.90.1) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Recommends: ksh but it is not installed > ?nautilus-open-terminal : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) > but it is not installed > ?nautilus-sendto-empathy : Depends: empathy-common (= 3.2.0.1-1) but > 2.30.3-1 is installed > ?sound-juicer : Depends: libbrasero-media3-1 (>= 2.91.91) but it is > not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 (>= 2.91.2) but > it is not installed > ?totem : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? Depends: libpeas-1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (>= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (< 3.1) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? Depends: totem-common (= 3.0.1-3) but 2.30.2-6 is installed > ?totem-plugins : Depends: libgdata11 (>= 0.8.0) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libpeas-1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (>= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (< 3.1) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 (>= 0.10.0) but it > is not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-totem-1.0 (= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-gtk-3.0 but it is not installed > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-peas-1.0 but it is not installed > E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f. > node1:/home/joehill# > node1:/home/joehill# apt-get -f install > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > Correcting dependencies... Done > The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: > ?liblash2 libclucene0ldbl csound-manpages libqca2 libqimageblitz4 > bind9 libqt4-assistant libhttp-access2-ruby1.8 libsolidcontrolifaces4 > libqzion0a > ?gadmin-openvpn-server python-clientform bind9utils oxygen-icon-theme > oxygencursors libgdata1.4-cil bluez-cups google-gadgets-common phonon > ?libggadget-qt-1.0-0b lockfile-progs libgps19 > shared-desktop-ontologies podsleuth python-pypdf google-gadgets-gst > libggadget-1.0-0b libntrack-qt4-1 > ?python2.5-dev libpango1.0-common libeina-svn-06 libeet1 > virtuoso-minimal libakonadiprivate1 libsoprano4 libqt4-webkit > libvirtodbc0 google-gadgets-xul > ?libxcb-render-util0-dev libntrack0 gadmin-openvpn-client > gadmin-rsync libstreamanalyzer0 libphonon4 libpkcs11-helper1 > thunar-data gadmin-samba > ?libfluidsynth1 libkephal4 phonon-backend-xine ksysguardd gadmin-bind > proftpd-basic python-gdbm libattica0 libakonadi-kabc4 libstk0c2a > akonadi-server > ?libstreams0 gadmin-proftpd libartsc0-dev openvpn python-pythonmagick > virtuoso-opensource-6.1-common libqedje0a soprano-daemon libiodbc2 > kaboom > ?virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin python-rdflib libwebkit1.1-cil libdigest-sha1-perl > Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. > The following extra packages will be installed: > ?brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common > gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 > gir1.2-json-1.0 > ?gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 > gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 > libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 > ?libgdata11 libgdu-gtk0 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev > libnautilus-extension-dev libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 > libpeas-common > ?libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 > libunique-3.0-0 nautilus-data totem-common > Suggested packages: > ?libgtk-3-doc > The following packages will be REMOVED: > ?libbrasero-media0 libnautilus-extension1 seahorse-plugins totem-coherence > The following NEW packages will be installed: > ?gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 > gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 > gir1.2-totem-1.0 > ?gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 > libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 libgdata11 > libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev > ?libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 libpeas-common > libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 > libunique-3.0-0 > The following packages will be upgraded: > ?brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common libgdu-gtk0 > libnautilus-extension-dev nautilus-data totem-common > 8 upgraded, 24 newly installed, 4 to remove and 650 not upgraded. > 14 not fully installed or removed. > Need to get 0 B/32.6 MB of archives. > After this operation, 24.8 MB of additional disk space will be used. > Do you want to continue [Y/n]? > Retrieving bug reports... Done > Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done > serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) > ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good > Summary: > ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) > Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] > > This is the same bug that I ignored before and let it go ahead. Should > I basically just wait until this bug is fixed and then this situation > will go away, or is there some corrective action I need to take right > now? The system seems to be working okay as far as I can tell, except > that Nautilus will not run. > > -- > Thomas Milne > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 02:28:00 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:28:00 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, yes, I know that's what the problem is. The bug, apparently, is just that one package needs to replace another but can't. My question is more about apt, I guess. Ie. whether the package manager will eventually resolve this by itself. On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: > Do you think this is what the problem is > > ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) > Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] > > If so I think I read about this somewhere, check the nautilus mime > types for invalid entry's. > > > > On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> I wan't paying attention when I did an update and said 'y' when I >> should not have. So now I have this situation: >> >> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get upgrade >> Reading package lists... Done >> Building dependency tree >> Reading state information... Done >> You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these. >> The following packages have unmet dependencies: >> ?brasero-cdrkit : Depends: libbrasero-media3-1 (= 3.0.0-4) but it is >> not installed >> ?empathy : Depends: empathy-common (= 3.2.0.1-1) but 2.30.3-1 is installed >> ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gstreamer0.10-gconf but it is not installed >> ?evince : Depends: libevince3-3 (= 3.2.1-1) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ?Depends: evince-common (>= 3.2) but 2.30.3-3 is installed >> ?file-roller : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is >> not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: nautilus-data (>= 3.0) but 2.30.1-3 is installed >> ?gnome-disk-utility : Depends: libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 (>= 0.6.30) but it >> is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libgdu-gtk0 (>= 3.0.0) but 2.32.1-1 is installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but >> it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libunique-3.0-0 (>= 2.90.1) but it is >> not installed >> ?nautilus : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: nautilus-data (>= 3.0) but 2.30.1-3 is installed >> ?nautilus-actions : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it >> is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libunique-3.0-0 (>= 2.90.1) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Recommends: ksh but it is not installed >> ?nautilus-open-terminal : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) >> but it is not installed >> ?nautilus-sendto-empathy : Depends: empathy-common (= 3.2.0.1-1) but >> 2.30.3-1 is installed >> ?sound-juicer : Depends: libbrasero-media3-1 (>= 2.91.91) but it is >> not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 (>= 2.91.2) but >> it is not installed >> ?totem : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? Depends: libpeas-1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (>= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (< 3.1) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? Depends: totem-common (= 3.0.1-3) but 2.30.2-6 is installed >> ?totem-plugins : Depends: libgdata11 (>= 0.8.0) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libpeas-1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (>= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (< 3.1) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 (>= 0.10.0) but it >> is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-totem-1.0 (= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-gtk-3.0 but it is not installed >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-peas-1.0 but it is not installed >> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f. >> node1:/home/joehill# >> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get -f install >> Reading package lists... Done >> Building dependency tree >> Reading state information... Done >> Correcting dependencies... Done >> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: >> ?liblash2 libclucene0ldbl csound-manpages libqca2 libqimageblitz4 >> bind9 libqt4-assistant libhttp-access2-ruby1.8 libsolidcontrolifaces4 >> libqzion0a >> ?gadmin-openvpn-server python-clientform bind9utils oxygen-icon-theme >> oxygencursors libgdata1.4-cil bluez-cups google-gadgets-common phonon >> ?libggadget-qt-1.0-0b lockfile-progs libgps19 >> shared-desktop-ontologies podsleuth python-pypdf google-gadgets-gst >> libggadget-1.0-0b libntrack-qt4-1 >> ?python2.5-dev libpango1.0-common libeina-svn-06 libeet1 >> virtuoso-minimal libakonadiprivate1 libsoprano4 libqt4-webkit >> libvirtodbc0 google-gadgets-xul >> ?libxcb-render-util0-dev libntrack0 gadmin-openvpn-client >> gadmin-rsync libstreamanalyzer0 libphonon4 libpkcs11-helper1 >> thunar-data gadmin-samba >> ?libfluidsynth1 libkephal4 phonon-backend-xine ksysguardd gadmin-bind >> proftpd-basic python-gdbm libattica0 libakonadi-kabc4 libstk0c2a >> akonadi-server >> ?libstreams0 gadmin-proftpd libartsc0-dev openvpn python-pythonmagick >> virtuoso-opensource-6.1-common libqedje0a soprano-daemon libiodbc2 >> kaboom >> ?virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin python-rdflib libwebkit1.1-cil libdigest-sha1-perl >> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. >> The following extra packages will be installed: >> ?brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common >> gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 >> gir1.2-json-1.0 >> ?gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 >> gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 >> libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 >> ?libgdata11 libgdu-gtk0 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev >> libnautilus-extension-dev libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 >> libpeas-common >> ?libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 >> libunique-3.0-0 nautilus-data totem-common >> Suggested packages: >> ?libgtk-3-doc >> The following packages will be REMOVED: >> ?libbrasero-media0 libnautilus-extension1 seahorse-plugins totem-coherence >> The following NEW packages will be installed: >> ?gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 >> gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 >> gir1.2-totem-1.0 >> ?gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 >> libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 libgdata11 >> libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev >> ?libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 libpeas-common >> libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 >> libunique-3.0-0 >> The following packages will be upgraded: >> ?brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common libgdu-gtk0 >> libnautilus-extension-dev nautilus-data totem-common >> 8 upgraded, 24 newly installed, 4 to remove and 650 not upgraded. >> 14 not fully installed or removed. >> Need to get 0 B/32.6 MB of archives. >> After this operation, 24.8 MB of additional disk space will be used. >> Do you want to continue [Y/n]? >> Retrieving bug reports... Done >> Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done >> serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) >> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >> Summary: >> ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) >> Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] >> >> This is the same bug that I ignored before and let it go ahead. Should >> I basically just wait until this bug is fixed and then this situation >> will go away, or is there some corrective action I need to take right >> now? The system seems to be working okay as far as I can tell, except >> that Nautilus will not run. >> >> -- >> Thomas Milne >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 02:31:21 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:31:21 -0400 Subject: [OT] Bittorrent and Networking In-Reply-To: <4EAF431A.1000202-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4EAF431A.1000202@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > > Hmmmm, I wonder if there's a way to tell a running x client to switch > which xserver it's connected to. > There's Xpra, but I haven't tried it: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Xpra -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 02:35:24 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:35:24 -0400 Subject: [OT] Bittorrent and Networking In-Reply-To: <4EAF431A.1000202-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4EAF431A.1000202@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > On 31/10/11 11:19, Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> I have two linux machines on my network, with a Linksys WRT54G router >> (running Tomato). If I run Transmission bittorrent client on one >> machine, it's okay, but if both are running Transmission, the whole >> network grinds to a halt. Even if I put a speed limit on both clients, >> so that each only uses a small percentage of the bandwidth (admittedly >> slim at around 2 Mb), it is still impossible to do anything else on >> the network. >> >> Has anyone encountered a situation like this? I am a total beginner >> when it comes to configuring routers, beyond port forwarding. >> > > Wouldn't it be better to run just one bittorrent client and use vnc on the > other machine? > > Hmmmm, I wonder if there's a way to tell a running x client to switch which > xserver it's connected to. > Bah, their only 20 feet apart, I'm not _that_ lazy ;) Normally, yes, you're correct, it's not really necessary to run two clients on the same network. Sometimes when I break something or cause some problem when tinkering, though...you know how it is. -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 02:36:42 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:36:42 -0400 Subject: [OT] Bittorrent and Networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Ori Idan wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> >> I have two linux machines on my network, with a Linksys WRT54G router >> (running Tomato). If I run Transmission bittorrent client on one >> machine, it's okay, but if both are running Transmission, the whole >> network grinds to a halt. Even if I put a speed limit on both clients, >> so that each only uses a small percentage of the bandwidth (admittedly >> slim at around 2 Mb), it is still impossible to do anything else on >> the network. >> >> Has anyone encountered a situation like this? I am a total beginner >> when it comes to configuring routers, beyond port forwarding. > > Did you limit both upload and download speeds? > It might be that two bittorents are sending a lot of data and that slows > down the network. > Yes, I apply speed limits to both up and down. > -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 02:40:14 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:40:14 -0400 Subject: [OT] Bittorrent and Networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That I have not tried, in fact I think at one point some time ago I might have _increased_ the number of connections on one of the clients. I'll experiment with that as well, thanks. In the end, though, what I'd like to try is a router configuration that guarantees a certain amount of bandwidth to each machine, or something like that. I'm hesitant to start tampering with the router too much without a bit more of a clue :-) On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Do-Ming Lum wrote: > In addition to limiting speed, did you also limit the number of connections > used by each client? ?I have found (on Windows not LInux), that if I limit > the number of connections that my bittorrent client uses to between 80 and > 160 connections, I don't actually need to limit the speed. > > On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Ori Idan wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Thomas Milne >> wrote: >>> >>> I have two linux machines on my network, with a Linksys WRT54G router >>> (running Tomato). If I run Transmission bittorrent client on one >>> machine, it's okay, but if both are running Transmission, the whole >>> network grinds to a halt. Even if I put a speed limit on both clients, >>> so that each only uses a small percentage of the bandwidth (admittedly >>> slim at around 2 Mb), it is still impossible to do anything else on >>> the network. >>> >>> Has anyone encountered a situation like this? I am a total beginner >>> when it comes to configuring routers, beyond port forwarding. >> >> Did you limit both upload and download speeds? >> It might be that two bittorents are sending a lot of data and that slows >> down the network. >> >> -- >> Ori Idan >> >>> >>> -- >>> Thomas Milne >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 02:42:31 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:42:31 -0400 Subject: [OT] Bittorrent and Networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I have two linux machines on my network, with a Linksys WRT54G router > (running Tomato). If I run Transmission bittorrent client on one > machine, it's okay, but if both are running Transmission, the whole > network grinds to a halt. Even if I put a speed limit on both clients, > so that each only uses a small percentage of the bandwidth (admittedly > slim at around 2 Mb), it is still impossible to do anything else on > the network. > > When you say "the network", are you referring to the LAN or just your Internet uplink? If the latter, then it could be the total number of connections issue. The old Linksys routers don't have much RAM, and each connection takes some memory to track. Maybe you're exhausting the available RAM on the router. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 02:52:27 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:52:27 -0400 Subject: [OT] Bittorrent and Networking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Andrej Marjan wrote: > On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> >> I have two linux machines on my network, with a Linksys WRT54G router >> (running Tomato). If I run Transmission bittorrent client on one >> machine, it's okay, but if both are running Transmission, the whole >> network grinds to a halt. Even if I put a speed limit on both clients, >> so that each only uses a small percentage of the bandwidth (admittedly >> slim at around 2 Mb), it is still impossible to do anything else on >> the network. >> > > When you say "the network", are you referring to the LAN or just your > Internet uplink? If the latter, then it could be the total number of > connections issue. The old Linksys routers don't have much RAM, and each > connection takes some memory to track. Maybe you're exhausting the available > RAM on the router. > Good question, yes, I meant using the Internet. For example, while two clients are running, things like Netflix just time out. I'll definitely look at the number of connections, it sure does seem like something is being, as you say, 'exhausted'. Thanks! -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 04:04:49 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 00:04:49 -0400 Subject: [OT] Bittorrent and Networking In-Reply-To: <4EAF431A.1000202-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4EAF431A.1000202@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > On 31/10/11 11:19, Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> I have two linux machines on my network, with a Linksys WRT54G router >> (running Tomato). If I run Transmission bittorrent client on one >> machine, it's okay, but if both are running Transmission, the whole >> network grinds to a halt. Even if I put a speed limit on both clients, >> so that each only uses a small percentage of the bandwidth (admittedly >> slim at around 2 Mb), it is still impossible to do anything else on >> the network. >> >> Has anyone encountered a situation like this? I am a total beginner >> when it comes to configuring routers, beyond port forwarding. >> > > Wouldn't it be better to run just one bittorrent client and use vnc on the > other machine? > > Hmmmm, I wonder if there's a way to tell a running x client to switch which > xserver it's connected to. I rather don't think so. What's sad about Transmission, in particular, is that it's so, so, so close to allowing a full multiplicity of kinds of connections. It *does* permit, concurrently: - Multiple instances of transmission-remote doing stuff on CLI or scripted; - Multiple web interface instances, so you can have *partial* control from web browsers in several places. - You can run these against a transmission instance, whether it's started up as a "GUI" instance or in the background. But it doesn't seem possible to hook up a transmission GUI to a pre-existing instance of transmission. Which is unfortunate, as that the GUI is a good way of managing, well, "everything." (Contrast that the web interface is pretty strictly limited; it lacks the ability to control configurable stuff such as per-torrent transmission rate limits as well as global policies.) If only the GUI could talk to a pre-existing transmission instance, that would be parfait. (I'd be happy to be proven wrong.) -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 12:37:33 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 08:37:33 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Well, yes, I know that's what the problem is. The bug, apparently, is > just that one package needs to replace another but can't. My question I saw this line in addition to the failed dependencies.. serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) > is more about apt, I guess. Ie. whether the package manager will > eventually resolve this by itself. >From what I've read I don't think it will. If it is what I suspect, you will have to edit the mime type by hand. I saw this while I was tracking down another problem about six months ago for my own video issues with transcoding files. For apt to fix it someone would have had to written a script to remove the wrong entry from your nautilus configuration file. Since it's hard for a script to evaluate what should and should not be present, it may require a human touch. You could try apt-get purge and start installing gstreamer again. You could try using apt -f as suggested to resolve all the individual failed dependencies. Or you might have to download and build gstreamer yourself as a backport, or could try apt-get dist-upgrade to upgrade the distribution files. But I think it would be better to investigate the mime types registered with nautilus. Does the file manager not run at all, or does it run but is glitchy. as in it is locked in one directory and unable to change directories? > > On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >> Do you think this is what the problem is >> >> ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) >> Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] >> >> If so I think I read about this somewhere, check the nautilus mime >> types for invalid entry's. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Thomas Milne >> wrote: >>> I wan't paying attention when I did an update and said 'y' when I >>> should not have. So now I have this situation: >>> >>> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get upgrade >>> Reading package lists... Done >>> Building dependency tree >>> Reading state information... Done >>> You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these. >>> The following packages have unmet dependencies: >>> ?brasero-cdrkit : Depends: libbrasero-media3-1 (= 3.0.0-4) but it is >>> not installed >>> ?empathy : Depends: empathy-common (= 3.2.0.1-1) but 2.30.3-1 is installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gstreamer0.10-gconf but it is not installed >>> ?evince : Depends: libevince3-3 (= 3.2.1-1) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ?Depends: evince-common (>= 3.2) but 2.30.3-3 is installed >>> ?file-roller : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is >>> not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: nautilus-data (>= 3.0) but 2.30.1-3 is installed >>> ?gnome-disk-utility : Depends: libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 (>= 0.6.30) but it >>> is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libgdu-gtk0 (>= 3.0.0) but 2.32.1-1 is installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but >>> it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libunique-3.0-0 (>= 2.90.1) but it is >>> not installed >>> ?nautilus : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: nautilus-data (>= 3.0) but 2.30.1-3 is installed >>> ?nautilus-actions : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it >>> is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libunique-3.0-0 (>= 2.90.1) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Recommends: ksh but it is not installed >>> ?nautilus-open-terminal : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) >>> but it is not installed >>> ?nautilus-sendto-empathy : Depends: empathy-common (= 3.2.0.1-1) but >>> 2.30.3-1 is installed >>> ?sound-juicer : Depends: libbrasero-media3-1 (>= 2.91.91) but it is >>> not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 (>= 2.91.2) but >>> it is not installed >>> ?totem : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? Depends: libpeas-1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (>= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (< 3.1) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? Depends: totem-common (= 3.0.1-3) but 2.30.2-6 is installed >>> ?totem-plugins : Depends: libgdata11 (>= 0.8.0) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libpeas-1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (>= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (< 3.1) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 (>= 0.10.0) but it >>> is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-totem-1.0 (= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-gtk-3.0 but it is not installed >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-peas-1.0 but it is not installed >>> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f. >>> node1:/home/joehill# >>> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get -f install >>> Reading package lists... Done >>> Building dependency tree >>> Reading state information... Done >>> Correcting dependencies... Done >>> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: >>> ?liblash2 libclucene0ldbl csound-manpages libqca2 libqimageblitz4 >>> bind9 libqt4-assistant libhttp-access2-ruby1.8 libsolidcontrolifaces4 >>> libqzion0a >>> ?gadmin-openvpn-server python-clientform bind9utils oxygen-icon-theme >>> oxygencursors libgdata1.4-cil bluez-cups google-gadgets-common phonon >>> ?libggadget-qt-1.0-0b lockfile-progs libgps19 >>> shared-desktop-ontologies podsleuth python-pypdf google-gadgets-gst >>> libggadget-1.0-0b libntrack-qt4-1 >>> ?python2.5-dev libpango1.0-common libeina-svn-06 libeet1 >>> virtuoso-minimal libakonadiprivate1 libsoprano4 libqt4-webkit >>> libvirtodbc0 google-gadgets-xul >>> ?libxcb-render-util0-dev libntrack0 gadmin-openvpn-client >>> gadmin-rsync libstreamanalyzer0 libphonon4 libpkcs11-helper1 >>> thunar-data gadmin-samba >>> ?libfluidsynth1 libkephal4 phonon-backend-xine ksysguardd gadmin-bind >>> proftpd-basic python-gdbm libattica0 libakonadi-kabc4 libstk0c2a >>> akonadi-server >>> ?libstreams0 gadmin-proftpd libartsc0-dev openvpn python-pythonmagick >>> virtuoso-opensource-6.1-common libqedje0a soprano-daemon libiodbc2 >>> kaboom >>> ?virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin python-rdflib libwebkit1.1-cil libdigest-sha1-perl >>> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. >>> The following extra packages will be installed: >>> ?brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common >>> gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 >>> gir1.2-json-1.0 >>> ?gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 >>> gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 >>> libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 >>> ?libgdata11 libgdu-gtk0 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev >>> libnautilus-extension-dev libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 >>> libpeas-common >>> ?libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 >>> libunique-3.0-0 nautilus-data totem-common >>> Suggested packages: >>> ?libgtk-3-doc >>> The following packages will be REMOVED: >>> ?libbrasero-media0 libnautilus-extension1 seahorse-plugins totem-coherence >>> The following NEW packages will be installed: >>> ?gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 >>> gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 >>> gir1.2-totem-1.0 >>> ?gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 >>> libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 libgdata11 >>> libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev >>> ?libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 libpeas-common >>> libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 >>> libunique-3.0-0 >>> The following packages will be upgraded: >>> ?brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common libgdu-gtk0 >>> libnautilus-extension-dev nautilus-data totem-common >>> 8 upgraded, 24 newly installed, 4 to remove and 650 not upgraded. >>> 14 not fully installed or removed. >>> Need to get 0 B/32.6 MB of archives. >>> After this operation, 24.8 MB of additional disk space will be used. >>> Do you want to continue [Y/n]? >>> Retrieving bug reports... Done >>> Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done >>> serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) >>> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >>> Summary: >>> ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) >>> Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] >>> >>> This is the same bug that I ignored before and let it go ahead. Should >>> I basically just wait until this bug is fixed and then this situation >>> will go away, or is there some corrective action I need to take right >>> now? The system seems to be working okay as far as I can tell, except >>> that Nautilus will not run. >>> >>> -- >>> Thomas Milne >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Thomas Milne > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 12:53:51 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 08:53:51 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 8:37 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: > On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> Well, yes, I know that's what the problem is. The bug, apparently, is >> just that one package needs to replace another but can't. My question > > I saw this line in addition to the failed dependencies.. > serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) Yeah, but this is the line that's important: ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >> is more about apt, I guess. Ie. whether the package manager will >> eventually resolve this by itself. > > From what I've read I don't think it will. If it is what I suspect, > you will have to edit the mime type by hand. I saw this while I was > tracking down another problem about six months ago for my own video > issues with transcoding files. For apt to fix it someone would have > had to written a script to remove the wrong entry from your nautilus > configuration file. Since it's hard for a script to evaluate what > should and should not be present, it may require a human touch. I see absolutely nothing in what I've posted that has anything to do with mime types. > You could try apt-get purge and start installing gstreamer again. > > You could try using apt -f as suggested to resolve all the individual > failed dependencies. Or you might have to download and build gstreamer > yourself as a backport, or could try apt-get dist-upgrade to upgrade > the distribution files. ?But I think it would be better to investigate > the mime types registered with nautilus. > > Does the file manager not run at all, or does it run but is glitchy. > as in it is locked in one directory and unable to change directories? Nautilus doesn't start because, along with 14 other packages identified in the messages from apt, it is not installed properly. Nautilus depends on packages that cannot be installed due to the gstreamer bug. And I did try using -f, as is obvious in what I posted. That is the point where I am currently holding. > >> >> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >>> Do you think this is what the problem is >>> >>> ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) >>> Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] >>> >>> If so I think I read about this somewhere, check the nautilus mime >>> types for invalid entry's. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Thomas Milne >>> wrote: >>>> I wan't paying attention when I did an update and said 'y' when I >>>> should not have. So now I have this situation: >>>> >>>> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get upgrade >>>> Reading package lists... Done >>>> Building dependency tree >>>> Reading state information... Done >>>> You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these. >>>> The following packages have unmet dependencies: >>>> ?brasero-cdrkit : Depends: libbrasero-media3-1 (= 3.0.0-4) but it is >>>> not installed >>>> ?empathy : Depends: empathy-common (= 3.2.0.1-1) but 2.30.3-1 is installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gstreamer0.10-gconf but it is not installed >>>> ?evince : Depends: libevince3-3 (= 3.2.1-1) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ?Depends: evince-common (>= 3.2) but 2.30.3-3 is installed >>>> ?file-roller : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is >>>> not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: nautilus-data (>= 3.0) but 2.30.1-3 is installed >>>> ?gnome-disk-utility : Depends: libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 (>= 0.6.30) but it >>>> is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libgdu-gtk0 (>= 3.0.0) but 2.32.1-1 is installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but >>>> it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libunique-3.0-0 (>= 2.90.1) but it is >>>> not installed >>>> ?nautilus : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: nautilus-data (>= 3.0) but 2.30.1-3 is installed >>>> ?nautilus-actions : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it >>>> is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libunique-3.0-0 (>= 2.90.1) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Recommends: ksh but it is not installed >>>> ?nautilus-open-terminal : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) >>>> but it is not installed >>>> ?nautilus-sendto-empathy : Depends: empathy-common (= 3.2.0.1-1) but >>>> 2.30.3-1 is installed >>>> ?sound-juicer : Depends: libbrasero-media3-1 (>= 2.91.91) but it is >>>> not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 (>= 2.91.2) but >>>> it is not installed >>>> ?totem : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? Depends: libpeas-1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (>= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (< 3.1) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? Depends: totem-common (= 3.0.1-3) but 2.30.2-6 is installed >>>> ?totem-plugins : Depends: libgdata11 (>= 0.8.0) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libpeas-1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (>= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (< 3.1) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 (>= 0.10.0) but it >>>> is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-totem-1.0 (= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-gtk-3.0 but it is not installed >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-peas-1.0 but it is not installed >>>> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f. >>>> node1:/home/joehill# >>>> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get -f install >>>> Reading package lists... Done >>>> Building dependency tree >>>> Reading state information... Done >>>> Correcting dependencies... Done >>>> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: >>>> ?liblash2 libclucene0ldbl csound-manpages libqca2 libqimageblitz4 >>>> bind9 libqt4-assistant libhttp-access2-ruby1.8 libsolidcontrolifaces4 >>>> libqzion0a >>>> ?gadmin-openvpn-server python-clientform bind9utils oxygen-icon-theme >>>> oxygencursors libgdata1.4-cil bluez-cups google-gadgets-common phonon >>>> ?libggadget-qt-1.0-0b lockfile-progs libgps19 >>>> shared-desktop-ontologies podsleuth python-pypdf google-gadgets-gst >>>> libggadget-1.0-0b libntrack-qt4-1 >>>> ?python2.5-dev libpango1.0-common libeina-svn-06 libeet1 >>>> virtuoso-minimal libakonadiprivate1 libsoprano4 libqt4-webkit >>>> libvirtodbc0 google-gadgets-xul >>>> ?libxcb-render-util0-dev libntrack0 gadmin-openvpn-client >>>> gadmin-rsync libstreamanalyzer0 libphonon4 libpkcs11-helper1 >>>> thunar-data gadmin-samba >>>> ?libfluidsynth1 libkephal4 phonon-backend-xine ksysguardd gadmin-bind >>>> proftpd-basic python-gdbm libattica0 libakonadi-kabc4 libstk0c2a >>>> akonadi-server >>>> ?libstreams0 gadmin-proftpd libartsc0-dev openvpn python-pythonmagick >>>> virtuoso-opensource-6.1-common libqedje0a soprano-daemon libiodbc2 >>>> kaboom >>>> ?virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin python-rdflib libwebkit1.1-cil libdigest-sha1-perl >>>> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. >>>> The following extra packages will be installed: >>>> ?brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common >>>> gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 >>>> gir1.2-json-1.0 >>>> ?gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 >>>> gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 >>>> libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 >>>> ?libgdata11 libgdu-gtk0 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev >>>> libnautilus-extension-dev libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 >>>> libpeas-common >>>> ?libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 >>>> libunique-3.0-0 nautilus-data totem-common >>>> Suggested packages: >>>> ?libgtk-3-doc >>>> The following packages will be REMOVED: >>>> ?libbrasero-media0 libnautilus-extension1 seahorse-plugins totem-coherence >>>> The following NEW packages will be installed: >>>> ?gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 >>>> gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 >>>> gir1.2-totem-1.0 >>>> ?gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 >>>> libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 libgdata11 >>>> libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev >>>> ?libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 libpeas-common >>>> libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 >>>> libunique-3.0-0 >>>> The following packages will be upgraded: >>>> ?brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common libgdu-gtk0 >>>> libnautilus-extension-dev nautilus-data totem-common >>>> 8 upgraded, 24 newly installed, 4 to remove and 650 not upgraded. >>>> 14 not fully installed or removed. >>>> Need to get 0 B/32.6 MB of archives. >>>> After this operation, 24.8 MB of additional disk space will be used. >>>> Do you want to continue [Y/n]? >>>> Retrieving bug reports... Done >>>> Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done >>>> serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) >>>> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >>>> Summary: >>>> ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) >>>> Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] >>>> >>>> This is the same bug that I ignored before and let it go ahead. Should >>>> I basically just wait until this bug is fixed and then this situation >>>> will go away, or is there some corrective action I need to take right >>>> now? The system seems to be working okay as far as I can tell, except >>>> that Nautilus will not run. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Thomas Milne >>>> -- >>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Thomas Milne >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 13:07:34 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:07:34 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 8:37 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Thomas Milne >> wrote: >>> Well, yes, I know that's what the problem is. The bug, apparently, is >>> just that one package needs to replace another but can't. My question >> >> I saw this line in addition to the failed dependencies.. >> serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) > > Yeah, but this is the line that's important: They are all important lines, sometime's you have to read between them. > > ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good > >>> is more about apt, I guess. Ie. whether the package manager will >>> eventually resolve this by itself. >> >> From what I've read I don't think it will. If it is what I suspect, >> you will have to edit the mime type by hand. I saw this while I was >> tracking down another problem about six months ago for my own video >> issues with transcoding files. For apt to fix it someone would have >> had to written a script to remove the wrong entry from your nautilus >> configuration file. Since it's hard for a script to evaluate what >> should and should not be present, it may require a human touch. > > I see absolutely nothing in what I've posted that has anything to do > with mime types. You mean your malfunctioning Nautilus doesn't use mime types? > >> You could try apt-get purge and start installing gstreamer again. >> >> You could try using apt -f as suggested to resolve all the individual >> failed dependencies. Or you might have to download and build gstreamer >> yourself as a backport, or could try apt-get dist-upgrade to upgrade >> the distribution files. ?But I think it would be better to investigate >> the mime types registered with nautilus. >> >> Does the file manager not run at all, or does it run but is glitchy. >> as in it is locked in one directory and unable to change directories? > > Nautilus doesn't start because, along with 14 other packages It doesn't start at all, or it starts and doesn't parse and display directory contents. > identified in the messages from apt, it is not installed properly. Unmet dependencies are not quite the same as not being installed properly. That message says in effect, it should work when you meet those dependencies. How you meet them is up to you. > Nautilus depends on packages that cannot be installed due to the > gstreamer bug. And I did try using -f, as is obvious in what I posted. > That is the point where I am currently holding. Each of those packages that apt cannot handle at this time may be compiled and installed one at a time to meet those unmet dependencies. Personally, I have never been able to keep a gnome system which deals with video and audio streaming without having to hand bomb something into the configuration. > >> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >>>> Do you think this is what the problem is >>>> >>>> ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) >>>> Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] >>>> >>>> If so I think I read about this somewhere, check the nautilus mime >>>> types for invalid entry's. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Thomas Milne >>>> wrote: >>>>> I wan't paying attention when I did an update and said 'y' when I >>>>> should not have. So now I have this situation: >>>>> >>>>> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get upgrade >>>>> Reading package lists... Done >>>>> Building dependency tree >>>>> Reading state information... Done >>>>> You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these. >>>>> The following packages have unmet dependencies: >>>>> ?brasero-cdrkit : Depends: libbrasero-media3-1 (= 3.0.0-4) but it is >>>>> not installed >>>>> ?empathy : Depends: empathy-common (= 3.2.0.1-1) but 2.30.3-1 is installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gstreamer0.10-gconf but it is not installed >>>>> ?evince : Depends: libevince3-3 (= 3.2.1-1) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ?Depends: evince-common (>= 3.2) but 2.30.3-3 is installed >>>>> ?file-roller : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is >>>>> not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: nautilus-data (>= 3.0) but 2.30.1-3 is installed >>>>> ?gnome-disk-utility : Depends: libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 (>= 0.6.30) but it >>>>> is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libgdu-gtk0 (>= 3.0.0) but 2.32.1-1 is installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but >>>>> it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libunique-3.0-0 (>= 2.90.1) but it is >>>>> not installed >>>>> ?nautilus : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: nautilus-data (>= 3.0) but 2.30.1-3 is installed >>>>> ?nautilus-actions : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it >>>>> is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libunique-3.0-0 (>= 2.90.1) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Recommends: ksh but it is not installed >>>>> ?nautilus-open-terminal : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) >>>>> but it is not installed >>>>> ?nautilus-sendto-empathy : Depends: empathy-common (= 3.2.0.1-1) but >>>>> 2.30.3-1 is installed >>>>> ?sound-juicer : Depends: libbrasero-media3-1 (>= 2.91.91) but it is >>>>> not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 (>= 2.91.2) but >>>>> it is not installed >>>>> ?totem : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? Depends: libpeas-1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (>= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (< 3.1) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? Depends: totem-common (= 3.0.1-3) but 2.30.2-6 is installed >>>>> ?totem-plugins : Depends: libgdata11 (>= 0.8.0) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libpeas-1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (>= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (< 3.1) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 (>= 0.10.0) but it >>>>> is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-totem-1.0 (= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-gtk-3.0 but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-peas-1.0 but it is not installed >>>>> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f. >>>>> node1:/home/joehill# >>>>> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get -f install >>>>> Reading package lists... Done >>>>> Building dependency tree >>>>> Reading state information... Done >>>>> Correcting dependencies... Done >>>>> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: >>>>> ?liblash2 libclucene0ldbl csound-manpages libqca2 libqimageblitz4 >>>>> bind9 libqt4-assistant libhttp-access2-ruby1.8 libsolidcontrolifaces4 >>>>> libqzion0a >>>>> ?gadmin-openvpn-server python-clientform bind9utils oxygen-icon-theme >>>>> oxygencursors libgdata1.4-cil bluez-cups google-gadgets-common phonon >>>>> ?libggadget-qt-1.0-0b lockfile-progs libgps19 >>>>> shared-desktop-ontologies podsleuth python-pypdf google-gadgets-gst >>>>> libggadget-1.0-0b libntrack-qt4-1 >>>>> ?python2.5-dev libpango1.0-common libeina-svn-06 libeet1 >>>>> virtuoso-minimal libakonadiprivate1 libsoprano4 libqt4-webkit >>>>> libvirtodbc0 google-gadgets-xul >>>>> ?libxcb-render-util0-dev libntrack0 gadmin-openvpn-client >>>>> gadmin-rsync libstreamanalyzer0 libphonon4 libpkcs11-helper1 >>>>> thunar-data gadmin-samba >>>>> ?libfluidsynth1 libkephal4 phonon-backend-xine ksysguardd gadmin-bind >>>>> proftpd-basic python-gdbm libattica0 libakonadi-kabc4 libstk0c2a >>>>> akonadi-server >>>>> ?libstreams0 gadmin-proftpd libartsc0-dev openvpn python-pythonmagick >>>>> virtuoso-opensource-6.1-common libqedje0a soprano-daemon libiodbc2 >>>>> kaboom >>>>> ?virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin python-rdflib libwebkit1.1-cil libdigest-sha1-perl >>>>> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. >>>>> The following extra packages will be installed: >>>>> ?brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common >>>>> gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 >>>>> gir1.2-json-1.0 >>>>> ?gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 >>>>> gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 >>>>> libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 >>>>> ?libgdata11 libgdu-gtk0 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev >>>>> libnautilus-extension-dev libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 >>>>> libpeas-common >>>>> ?libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 >>>>> libunique-3.0-0 nautilus-data totem-common >>>>> Suggested packages: >>>>> ?libgtk-3-doc >>>>> The following packages will be REMOVED: >>>>> ?libbrasero-media0 libnautilus-extension1 seahorse-plugins totem-coherence >>>>> The following NEW packages will be installed: >>>>> ?gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 >>>>> gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 >>>>> gir1.2-totem-1.0 >>>>> ?gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 >>>>> libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 libgdata11 >>>>> libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev >>>>> ?libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 libpeas-common >>>>> libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 >>>>> libunique-3.0-0 >>>>> The following packages will be upgraded: >>>>> ?brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common libgdu-gtk0 >>>>> libnautilus-extension-dev nautilus-data totem-common >>>>> 8 upgraded, 24 newly installed, 4 to remove and 650 not upgraded. >>>>> 14 not fully installed or removed. >>>>> Need to get 0 B/32.6 MB of archives. >>>>> After this operation, 24.8 MB of additional disk space will be used. >>>>> Do you want to continue [Y/n]? >>>>> Retrieving bug reports... Done >>>>> Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done >>>>> serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) >>>>> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >>>>> Summary: >>>>> ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) >>>>> Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] >>>>> >>>>> This is the same bug that I ignored before and let it go ahead. Should >>>>> I basically just wait until this bug is fixed and then this situation >>>>> will go away, or is there some corrective action I need to take right >>>>> now? The system seems to be working okay as far as I can tell, except >>>>> that Nautilus will not run. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Thomas Milne >>>>> -- >>>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thomas Milne >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Thomas Milne > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 14:20:47 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:20:47 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111101142047.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 08:53:51AM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > Yeah, but this is the line that's important: > > ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good Well that bug will certainly cause a problem for apt/dpkg, but not a problem for the actual program once installed. The suggestion of removing the gstreamer packages and installing them again would almost certainly get around this bug. If possible, remove 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good', then run 'apt-get -f install' again, and let it install the package (even though there is a bug report), then you should be able to install 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good'. Unfortunately removing 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good' will take out a large chunk of gnome among other things. Probably the simplest solution is to download the new version of gstreamer0.10-plugins-good and installing it, then running apt-get to fix the rest. So something like: wget http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gst-plugins-good0.10/gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb (or i386 if that is what you are running) dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb apt-get -f install Basicly the new version (0.10.30 rather than 0.10.24) no longer has the conflicting file that is preventing gstreamer0.10-gconf 0.10.30 from installing. > I see absolutely nothing in what I've posted that has anything to do > with mime types. I don't either. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 14:28:35 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:28:35 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111101142835.GB30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 09:07:34AM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: > They are all important lines, sometime's you have to read between them. Certainly true. Certainly in this case the important line would have been: E: /var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-gconf_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstgconfelements.so', which is also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.24-1 > You mean your malfunctioning Nautilus doesn't use mime types? I would hope it does. On the other hand mime types probably don't have anything to do with the package conflict in this case. They could be an issue later if something doesn't work with gstreamer (as is often the case). > It doesn't start at all, or it starts and doesn't parse and display > directory contents. Probably depends how far dpkg can before running into conflicts. > Unmet dependencies are not quite the same as not being installed > properly. That message says in effect, it should work when you meet > those dependencies. How you meet them is up to you. In the interest of future upgrades, meeting them through apt would make sense. Sure equivs can be used to convince apt that you have done so, but isn't usually the first choice. > Each of those packages that apt cannot handle at this time may be > compiled and installed one at a time to meet those unmet dependencies. It would be more productive to get the debian source package and fixing the control file to have the missing 'Replaces' that the bug report says it needs. Still would need compiling, but much less messy and easier to maintain. Meeting the dependancy of the code is one thing, but meeting the dependancies of the packaging system is another. > Personally, I have never been able to keep a gnome system which deals > with video and audio streaming without having to hand bomb something > into the configuration. Gnome and gstreamer certainly can be hassle. I think I usually end up using mplayer in the end after giving up on whatever gnome has tried to do. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 14:42:06 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:42:06 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: <20111101142835.GB30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111101142835.GB30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > Gnome and gstreamer certainly can be hassle. ?I think I usually end up > using mplayer in the end after giving up on whatever gnome has tried > to do. I dumped totem completely in favour of vlc on my own system. Ten or so years ago, when I was using Red Hat, I dumped Gnome in favour of Enlightenment, after gnome seemed to become a resource hog. It's better now but with so many developers, each working on their own little bit of things, uniformity is hard to come by. Aptitude is great, but it's not a panacea for problems. It's just another tool in the toolbox. Really, check the mime types Nautilus has registered. There was no mention that video streaming wasn't working only that Nautilus was malfunctioning. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 15:48:18 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 11:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: gnome 3 desktop annoyance fixed: showing date Message-ID: I've been running Fedora 15 on my desktop for a month or two. I held off for months because I didn't like what I heard about the new desktop (or what I heard about Unity, the Ubuntu analogue). I'm finding Gnome 3 mostly OK. I don't find it an improvement over the Gnome 2 desktop, but I can live with it. (I'm not a fan of running a distro's less-supported desktops, but that can be done.) You don't get to customize much. So, for instance, I cannot get a panel thingee to display CPU usage. One thing that I missed is that the clock doesn't show the date (it does show the day of the week). I looked around the GUI and could not see a way to change this. At a FSOSS talk on the weekend, the speaker (a Ubuntu employee!) told me that there is a way to configure this -- just google. Well here is the link that worked for me: $ gsettings set org.gnome.shell.clock show-date true The same thread also has this: you can also do this graphically in gnome-tweak-tool So I just installed it but saw nothing else that I wanted. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 15:56:43 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 11:56:43 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know if you are using Ubuntu. But this article mentiones Ubuntu-tweak with some background on glob parsing and magic numbers. http://www.packtpub.com/article/control-of-file-types-in-ubuntu On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 8:37 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Thomas Milne >> wrote: >>> Well, yes, I know that's what the problem is. The bug, apparently, is >>> just that one package needs to replace another but can't. My question >> >> I saw this line in addition to the failed dependencies.. >> serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) > > Yeah, but this is the line that's important: > > ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good > >>> is more about apt, I guess. Ie. whether the package manager will >>> eventually resolve this by itself. >> >> From what I've read I don't think it will. If it is what I suspect, >> you will have to edit the mime type by hand. I saw this while I was >> tracking down another problem about six months ago for my own video >> issues with transcoding files. For apt to fix it someone would have >> had to written a script to remove the wrong entry from your nautilus >> configuration file. Since it's hard for a script to evaluate what >> should and should not be present, it may require a human touch. > > I see absolutely nothing in what I've posted that has anything to do > with mime types. > >> You could try apt-get purge and start installing gstreamer again. >> >> You could try using apt -f as suggested to resolve all the individual >> failed dependencies. Or you might have to download and build gstreamer >> yourself as a backport, or could try apt-get dist-upgrade to upgrade >> the distribution files. ?But I think it would be better to investigate >> the mime types registered with nautilus. >> >> Does the file manager not run at all, or does it run but is glitchy. >> as in it is locked in one directory and unable to change directories? > > Nautilus doesn't start because, along with 14 other packages > identified in the messages from apt, it is not installed properly. > Nautilus depends on packages that cannot be installed due to the > gstreamer bug. And I did try using -f, as is obvious in what I posted. > That is the point where I am currently holding. > >> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >>>> Do you think this is what the problem is >>>> >>>> ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) >>>> Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] >>>> >>>> If so I think I read about this somewhere, check the nautilus mime >>>> types for invalid entry's. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Thomas Milne >>>> wrote: >>>>> I wan't paying attention when I did an update and said 'y' when I >>>>> should not have. So now I have this situation: >>>>> >>>>> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get upgrade >>>>> Reading package lists... Done >>>>> Building dependency tree >>>>> Reading state information... Done >>>>> You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these. >>>>> The following packages have unmet dependencies: >>>>> ?brasero-cdrkit : Depends: libbrasero-media3-1 (= 3.0.0-4) but it is >>>>> not installed >>>>> ?empathy : Depends: empathy-common (= 3.2.0.1-1) but 2.30.3-1 is installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gstreamer0.10-gconf but it is not installed >>>>> ?evince : Depends: libevince3-3 (= 3.2.1-1) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ?Depends: evince-common (>= 3.2) but 2.30.3-3 is installed >>>>> ?file-roller : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is >>>>> not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: nautilus-data (>= 3.0) but 2.30.1-3 is installed >>>>> ?gnome-disk-utility : Depends: libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 (>= 0.6.30) but it >>>>> is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libgdu-gtk0 (>= 3.0.0) but 2.32.1-1 is installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but >>>>> it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libunique-3.0-0 (>= 2.90.1) but it is >>>>> not installed >>>>> ?nautilus : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: nautilus-data (>= 3.0) but 2.30.1-3 is installed >>>>> ?nautilus-actions : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it >>>>> is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libunique-3.0-0 (>= 2.90.1) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Recommends: ksh but it is not installed >>>>> ?nautilus-open-terminal : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) >>>>> but it is not installed >>>>> ?nautilus-sendto-empathy : Depends: empathy-common (= 3.2.0.1-1) but >>>>> 2.30.3-1 is installed >>>>> ?sound-juicer : Depends: libbrasero-media3-1 (>= 2.91.91) but it is >>>>> not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 (>= 2.91.2) but >>>>> it is not installed >>>>> ?totem : Depends: libnautilus-extension1a (>= 2.91) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? Depends: libpeas-1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (>= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (< 3.1) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? Depends: totem-common (= 3.0.1-3) but 2.30.2-6 is installed >>>>> ?totem-plugins : Depends: libgdata11 (>= 0.8.0) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libpeas-1.0-0 (>= 1.0.0) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (>= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtotem0 (< 3.1) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 (>= 0.10.0) but it >>>>> is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-totem-1.0 (= 3.0.1-3) but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-gtk-3.0 but it is not installed >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Depends: gir1.2-peas-1.0 but it is not installed >>>>> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f. >>>>> node1:/home/joehill# >>>>> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get -f install >>>>> Reading package lists... Done >>>>> Building dependency tree >>>>> Reading state information... Done >>>>> Correcting dependencies... Done >>>>> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: >>>>> ?liblash2 libclucene0ldbl csound-manpages libqca2 libqimageblitz4 >>>>> bind9 libqt4-assistant libhttp-access2-ruby1.8 libsolidcontrolifaces4 >>>>> libqzion0a >>>>> ?gadmin-openvpn-server python-clientform bind9utils oxygen-icon-theme >>>>> oxygencursors libgdata1.4-cil bluez-cups google-gadgets-common phonon >>>>> ?libggadget-qt-1.0-0b lockfile-progs libgps19 >>>>> shared-desktop-ontologies podsleuth python-pypdf google-gadgets-gst >>>>> libggadget-1.0-0b libntrack-qt4-1 >>>>> ?python2.5-dev libpango1.0-common libeina-svn-06 libeet1 >>>>> virtuoso-minimal libakonadiprivate1 libsoprano4 libqt4-webkit >>>>> libvirtodbc0 google-gadgets-xul >>>>> ?libxcb-render-util0-dev libntrack0 gadmin-openvpn-client >>>>> gadmin-rsync libstreamanalyzer0 libphonon4 libpkcs11-helper1 >>>>> thunar-data gadmin-samba >>>>> ?libfluidsynth1 libkephal4 phonon-backend-xine ksysguardd gadmin-bind >>>>> proftpd-basic python-gdbm libattica0 libakonadi-kabc4 libstk0c2a >>>>> akonadi-server >>>>> ?libstreams0 gadmin-proftpd libartsc0-dev openvpn python-pythonmagick >>>>> virtuoso-opensource-6.1-common libqedje0a soprano-daemon libiodbc2 >>>>> kaboom >>>>> ?virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin python-rdflib libwebkit1.1-cil libdigest-sha1-perl >>>>> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. >>>>> The following extra packages will be installed: >>>>> ?brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common >>>>> gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 >>>>> gir1.2-json-1.0 >>>>> ?gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 >>>>> gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 >>>>> libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 >>>>> ?libgdata11 libgdu-gtk0 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev >>>>> libnautilus-extension-dev libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 >>>>> libpeas-common >>>>> ?libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 >>>>> libunique-3.0-0 nautilus-data totem-common >>>>> Suggested packages: >>>>> ?libgtk-3-doc >>>>> The following packages will be REMOVED: >>>>> ?libbrasero-media0 libnautilus-extension1 seahorse-plugins totem-coherence >>>>> The following NEW packages will be installed: >>>>> ?gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 >>>>> gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 >>>>> gir1.2-totem-1.0 >>>>> ?gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 >>>>> libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 libgdata11 >>>>> libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev >>>>> ?libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 libpeas-common >>>>> libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 >>>>> libunique-3.0-0 >>>>> The following packages will be upgraded: >>>>> ?brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common libgdu-gtk0 >>>>> libnautilus-extension-dev nautilus-data totem-common >>>>> 8 upgraded, 24 newly installed, 4 to remove and 650 not upgraded. >>>>> 14 not fully installed or removed. >>>>> Need to get 0 B/32.6 MB of archives. >>>>> After this operation, 24.8 MB of additional disk space will be used. >>>>> Do you want to continue [Y/n]? >>>>> Retrieving bug reports... Done >>>>> Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done >>>>> serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) >>>>> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >>>>> Summary: >>>>> ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) >>>>> Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] >>>>> >>>>> This is the same bug that I ignored before and let it go ahead. Should >>>>> I basically just wait until this bug is fixed and then this situation >>>>> will go away, or is there some corrective action I need to take right >>>>> now? The system seems to be working okay as far as I can tell, except >>>>> that Nautilus will not run. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Thomas Milne >>>>> -- >>>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Thomas Milne >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Thomas Milne > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 16:09:13 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:09:13 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111101160913.GC30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 11:56:43AM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: > I don't know if you are using Ubuntu. But this article mentiones > Ubuntu-tweak with some background on glob parsing and magic numbers. > > http://www.packtpub.com/article/control-of-file-types-in-ubuntu Hmm, looks useful. Fortunately this particular problem/bug was just a debian packaging one, and not one caused by gnome/nautilus. Maybe after the new version is installed there will be mime issues to solve. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 16:43:55 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 12:43:55 -0400 Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much In-Reply-To: References: <4EACE508.9050005@gmail.com> <20111031162349.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 09:40:31PM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: > LSB Init Scripts are for boot ordering. Besides why is it so > convienient to have access to the headers, as you mention below? Certainly handles ordering. It does not handle whether something should or should not be started, only what order it should happen if it should. > How about fine grained control over exit status as one thought? The exit status might be handy at times. Not sure it is that major an improvement. > Nothing to do with customizing ordering, as in when to initialize udev > in the init process? > When to start it initially to populate a device file system? > When to understand when the devices are connected to their respective > inodes by static and symbolic links? The LSB headers control when to do things within a given runlevel if asked to do something. So it controls when udev starts in runlevel S at startup relative to other things being started and stopped. It also controls when it starts/stops in runlevel 2 if (incorrectly) asked to do so. The only thing it doesn't control is if something should be started or stopped. The symlinks are still used for that. The numerical ordering of the symlinks in the runlevels no longer get used. > Here's the third comment, all the maintainer said was he was sure the > system was broken in some way, with an if, and it's a pretty big if, > if after rebuilding initramfs it still doesn't work. > > "Rebuild the initramfs. If it still does not work then run its scripts > step by step as explained in the man page to find out why udevd is not > being killed when it should be. > But I am quite sure that you broke your system in some way." Yeah this was before it was determined that the initramfs had nothing to do with it, but rather the errant symlink in rc2.d (and rc3.d) was the problem. > But see for me now udevd is being killed correctly. I didn't have to > rebuild anything. I renamed one file. The initramfs idea was an unfortunate wrong direction. It did make sense though since initramfs runs udev, then stops it, and then rcS.d runs udev, so if initramfs failed to stop udev, that could explain it starting twice. When it was discovered that there was another start script in rc2.d though that explained the second start attempt instead of the initramfs idea. So the initramfs was killing udev correctly, and rcS.d was starting it correctly. The unexplained link in rc2.d though that was trying to start it a second time was the problem. There was no need to kill udev, only a need to not try to start it again. > The guy who posted the fix actually said to rename the scripts in two > folders rc2.d and rc3.d It was probably in 4 and 5 as well then. Either way, renaming it to a stop script isn't the right way to go. Removing it when it shouldn't be there is. Asking insserv to reset the udev scripts to the default state would probably be an even safer way to fix it. > It was the package maintainer who snipped out the second one in his > reply. That's why I don't like all this snipping of posts, it confuses > things. Well it is standard operating procedure on mailing lists and avoids messages getting overly huge and unmanageable. > This hardware is now working as it was before the IO problems, hence > it is right. That is a rather simplistic and wrong way to look at things. So if your car drives, it is in perfect condition even if you have a flat tire or at least a very underinflated tire. Just because you don't see a problem doesn't mean there isn't any. > Or are you looking at this like the new math I had to learn in the > 70's. It doesn't matter that the answer is wrong, as long as the work > is shown to have been done correctly. Well if the work was done correctly at every step, the answer can't be wrong. Some step has to be done wrong to get the wrong answer. > See maybe thats part of the problem, if you are not hot plugging > anything and the static system is working, why bother with udev? Feel free to uninstall it if you don't think it is useful. Systems used to run fine without it, although there was some management of device nodes and module loading to be done. > From what I see udev has some problems with uniformly re-identifying > nodes when the bus is polled on a new trigger. It can take a bit of > work to sort issues out when that happens. It's easier to figure out > stuff now with udevadm attribute-walk but still, does udev need to run > as a dameon, why not just kickstart it with some other kernel event. To some extent the kernel could be made to kick things, but on the other hand the kernel developers do seem to like pushing decision making to user space whenever possible. It may also be more efficient to not have to load and initialize udev for every event. > So I can deal with udev the way I need to. Remember one person's bug > is another person's feature. > > But hey, if you can get your virtual machine built and broken by next > Sunday, I'll be up at buddies trying to explain to him why his real > working computer is so abnormal. > > We can compare notes then. I am installing a VM right now. I will have to go see about setting up a USB keyboard in KVM since I think the default is an AT or PS/2 keyboard which might not break the same way a USB keyboard would. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 17:11:28 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:11:28 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: <20111101142047.GA30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111101142047.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 08:53:51AM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> Yeah, but this is the line that's important: >> >> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good > > Well that bug will certainly cause a problem for apt/dpkg, but not > a problem for the actual program once installed. > > The suggestion of removing the gstreamer packages and installing them > again would almost certainly get around this bug. > > If possible, remove 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good', then run 'apt-get -f > install' again, and let it install the package (even though there is a bug > report), then you should be able to install 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good'. > Unfortunately removing 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good' will take out a > large chunk of gnome among other things. > > Probably the simplest solution is to download the new version of > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good and installing it, then running apt-get to > fix the rest. > > So something like: > wget http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gst-plugins-good0.10/gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb (or i386 if that is what you are running) > dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb > apt-get -f install > > Basicly the new version (0.10.30 rather than 0.10.24) no longer has > the conflicting file that is preventing gstreamer0.10-gconf 0.10.30 > from installing. Now I'm getting this: node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb dpkg: considering removing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... dpkg: no, cannot proceed with removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (--auto-deconfigure will help): libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is to be removed. dpkg: regarding gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb containing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good: gstreamer0.10-plugins-good conflicts with gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (<< 0.10.21.2) gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (version 0.10.19-2.1) is present and installed. dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb (--install): conflicting packages - not installing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good Errors were encountered while processing: gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb So I tried installing the newer version of plugins-bad: node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb (Reading database ... 315313 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.19-2.1 (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb (--install): trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstxvid.so', which is also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.0 dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) Errors were encountered while processing: gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb So then I tried the suggested --auto-deconfigure: node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i --auto-deconfigure gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb dpkg: considering removing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... dpkg: yes, will remove gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of gstreamer0.10-plugins-good. (Reading database ... 315313 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.24-1 (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb) ... De-configuring gnome-video-effects, to allow removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... De-configuring libgstfarsight0.10-0, to allow removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... De-configuring totem-xine, to allow removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... De-configuring libcheese1, to allow removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gstreamer0.10-plugins-good: gstreamer0.10-plugins-good depends on libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 (>= 0.10.33); however: Version of libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 on system is 0.10.32-2. dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (--install): dependency problems - leaving unconfigured dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libcheese1: libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (>= 0.10.23); however: Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. dpkg: error processing libcheese1 (--install): dependency problems - leaving unconfigured dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of totem-xine: totem-xine depends on totem (>= 2.27.1); however: Package totem is not configured yet. totem-xine depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. dpkg: error processing totem-xine (--install): dependency problems - leaving unconfigured dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libgstfarsight0.10-0: libgstfarsight0.10-0 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (>= 0.10.8); however: Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. libgstfarsight0.10-0 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (>= 0.10.17); however: Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. dpkg: error processing libgstfarsight0.10-0 (--install): dependency problems - leaving unconfigured dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gnome-video-effects: gnome-video-effects depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good; however: Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. gnome-video-effects depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. dpkg: error processing gnome-video-effects (--install): dependency problems - leaving unconfigured Processing triggers for gconf2 ... Errors were encountered while processing: gstreamer0.10-plugins-good libcheese1 totem-xine libgstfarsight0.10-0 gnome-video-effects and then apt-get -f install: node1:/home/joehill# apt-get -f install Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Correcting dependencies... Done The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: liblash2 libclucene0ldbl csound-manpages libqca2 libqimageblitz4 bind9 libqt4-assistant libhttp-access2-ruby1.8 libsolidcontrolifaces4 libqzion0a gadmin-openvpn-server python-clientform bind9utils oxygen-icon-theme oxygencursors libgdata1.4-cil bluez-cups google-gadgets-common phonon libggadget-qt-1.0-0b lockfile-progs libgps19 shared-desktop-ontologies podsleuth python-pypdf google-gadgets-gst libggadget-1.0-0b libntrack-qt4-1 python2.5-dev libpango1.0-common libeina-svn-06 libeet1 virtuoso-minimal libakonadiprivate1 libsoprano4 libqt4-webkit libvirtodbc0 google-gadgets-xul libxcb-render-util0-dev libntrack0 gadmin-openvpn-client gadmin-rsync libstreamanalyzer0 libphonon4 libpkcs11-helper1 thunar-data gadmin-samba libfluidsynth1 libkephal4 phonon-backend-xine ksysguardd gadmin-bind proftpd-basic python-gdbm libattica0 libakonadi-kabc4 libstk0c2a akonadi-server libstreams0 gadmin-proftpd libartsc0-dev openvpn python-pythonmagick virtuoso-opensource-6.1-common libqedje0a soprano-daemon libiodbc2 kaboom virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin libiptcdata0 python-rdflib libwebkit1.1-cil libdigest-sha1-perl Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. The following extra packages will be installed: brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 libgdata11 libgdu-gtk0 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev libgtk-3-dev libnautilus-extension-dev libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 libpeas-common libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 libunique-3.0-0 nautilus-data totem-common Suggested packages: libgtk-3-doc The following packages will be REMOVED: libbrasero-media0 libnautilus-extension1 seahorse-plugins totem-coherence The following NEW packages will be installed: gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 libgdata11 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 libpeas-common libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 libunique-3.0-0 The following packages will be upgraded: brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common libgdu-gtk0 libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev libnautilus-extension-dev nautilus-data totem-common 10 upgraded, 26 newly installed, 4 to remove and 657 not upgraded. 19 not fully installed or removed. Need to get 4,702 kB/37.3 MB of archives. After this operation, 32.0 MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Get:1 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 i386 0.10.35-1 [554 kB] Get:2 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev i386 0.10.35-1 [687 kB] Get:3 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 i386 0.10.35-1 [1,005 kB] Get:4 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad i386 0.10.22-3 [2,456 kB] Fetched 4,702 kB in 18s (255 kB/s) Retrieving bug reports... Done Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) #646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good Summary: gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] Extracting templates from packages: 100% Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10. (Reading database ... 315176 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 (from .../gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev 0.10.32-2 (using .../libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev ... Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 0.10.32-2 (using .../libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 ... Unpacking gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (from .../gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstxvid.so', which is also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.0 configured to not write apport reports dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-gtk-3.0. Unpacking gir1.2-gtk-3.0 (from .../gir1.2-gtk-3.0_3.0.12-2_i386.deb) ... Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-nautilus-3.0. Unpacking gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 (from .../gir1.2-nautilus-3.0_3.0.2-4_i386.deb) ... Selecting previously unselected package libgtk-3-dev. Unpacking libgtk-3-dev (from .../libgtk-3-dev_3.0.12-2_i386.deb) ... Preparing to replace libnautilus-extension-dev 2.30.1-3 (using .../libnautilus-extension-dev_3.0.2-4_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement libnautilus-extension-dev ... Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) I'm now hung up on the 'gstreamer-plugins-really-bad', which also wants to take most of gnome with it. >> I see absolutely nothing in what I've posted that has anything to do >> with mime types. > > I don't either. > -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 17:19:39 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:19:39 -0400 Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much In-Reply-To: <20111101164355.GD30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4EACE508.9050005@gmail.com> <20111031162349.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 12:43:55PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I am installing a VM right now. I will have to go see about setting up > a USB keyboard in KVM since I think the default is an AT or PS/2 keyboard > which might not break the same way a USB keyboard would. So it turns out insserv is being helpful. It politely ignores the user's request to stop udev in runlevel 2 or 3 because there are things to be started that depend on it. So insserv simply figures the user doesn't know what they are doing and makes the best of it. If insserv was not in use and the plain sysvinit was in use, then the kill of udev would have happened and the system would have been slightly worse off (I am not sure loosing udev after booting is really that huge a deal, but could be annoying). So the reason the kill script isn't breaking things is that udev is ignoring it for being incompatible with the other requests for the runlevel. It is however also not helping anything and could be confusing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 17:27:27 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:27:27 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142047.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111101172727.GF30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 01:11:28PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 08:53:51AM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > >> Yeah, but this is the line that's important: > >> > >> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good > > > > Well that bug will certainly cause a problem for apt/dpkg, but not > > a problem for the actual program once installed. > > > > The suggestion of removing the gstreamer packages and installing them > > again would almost certainly get around this bug. > > > > If possible, remove 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good', then run 'apt-get -f > > install' again, and let it install the package (even though there is a bug > > report), then you should be able to install 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good'. > > Unfortunately removing 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good' will take out a > > large chunk of gnome among other things. > > > > Probably the simplest solution is to download the new version of > > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good and installing it, then running apt-get to > > fix the rest. > > > > So something like: > > wget http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gst-plugins-good0.10/gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb (or i386 if that is what you are running) > > dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb > > apt-get -f install > > > > Basicly the new version (0.10.30 rather than 0.10.24) no longer has > > the conflicting file that is preventing gstreamer0.10-gconf 0.10.30 > > from installing. > > Now I'm getting this: > > node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb > dpkg: considering removing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... > dpkg: no, cannot proceed with removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad > (--auto-deconfigure will help): > libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is to be removed. > dpkg: regarding gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb > containing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good: > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good conflicts with gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad > (<< 0.10.21.2) > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (version 0.10.19-2.1) is present and installed. > dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb > (--install): > conflicting packages - not installing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good > Errors were encountered while processing: > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb > > So I tried installing the newer version of plugins-bad: > > node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb > (Reading database ... 315313 files and directories currently installed.) > Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.19-2.1 (using > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... > dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb (--install): > trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstxvid.so', which is > also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.0 > dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) > Errors were encountered while processing: > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb > > So then I tried the suggested --auto-deconfigure: > > node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i --auto-deconfigure > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb > dpkg: considering removing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... > dpkg: yes, will remove gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good. > (Reading database ... 315313 files and directories currently installed.) > Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.24-1 (using > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb) ... > De-configuring gnome-video-effects, to allow removal of > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... > De-configuring libgstfarsight0.10-0, to allow removal of > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... > De-configuring totem-xine, to allow removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... > De-configuring libcheese1, to allow removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... > Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... > dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gstreamer0.10-plugins-good: > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good depends on libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 > (>= 0.10.33); however: > Version of libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 on system is 0.10.32-2. > dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (--install): > dependency problems - leaving unconfigured > dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libcheese1: > libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (>= 0.10.23); however: > Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. > libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: > Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. > dpkg: error processing libcheese1 (--install): > dependency problems - leaving unconfigured > dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of totem-xine: > totem-xine depends on totem (>= 2.27.1); however: > Package totem is not configured yet. > totem-xine depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: > Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. > dpkg: error processing totem-xine (--install): > dependency problems - leaving unconfigured > dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libgstfarsight0.10-0: > libgstfarsight0.10-0 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (>= > 0.10.8); however: > Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. > libgstfarsight0.10-0 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (>= > 0.10.17); however: > Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. > dpkg: error processing libgstfarsight0.10-0 (--install): > dependency problems - leaving unconfigured > dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gnome-video-effects: > gnome-video-effects depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good; however: > Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. > gnome-video-effects depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: > Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. > dpkg: error processing gnome-video-effects (--install): > dependency problems - leaving unconfigured > Processing triggers for gconf2 ... > Errors were encountered while processing: > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good > libcheese1 > totem-xine > libgstfarsight0.10-0 > gnome-video-effects > > and then apt-get -f install: > > node1:/home/joehill# apt-get -f install > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > Correcting dependencies... Done > The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: > liblash2 libclucene0ldbl csound-manpages libqca2 libqimageblitz4 > bind9 libqt4-assistant libhttp-access2-ruby1.8 libsolidcontrolifaces4 > libqzion0a > gadmin-openvpn-server python-clientform bind9utils oxygen-icon-theme > oxygencursors libgdata1.4-cil bluez-cups google-gadgets-common phonon > libggadget-qt-1.0-0b lockfile-progs libgps19 > shared-desktop-ontologies podsleuth python-pypdf google-gadgets-gst > libggadget-1.0-0b libntrack-qt4-1 > python2.5-dev libpango1.0-common libeina-svn-06 libeet1 > virtuoso-minimal libakonadiprivate1 libsoprano4 libqt4-webkit > libvirtodbc0 google-gadgets-xul > libxcb-render-util0-dev libntrack0 gadmin-openvpn-client > gadmin-rsync libstreamanalyzer0 libphonon4 libpkcs11-helper1 > thunar-data gadmin-samba > libfluidsynth1 libkephal4 phonon-backend-xine ksysguardd gadmin-bind > proftpd-basic python-gdbm libattica0 libakonadi-kabc4 libstk0c2a > akonadi-server > libstreams0 gadmin-proftpd libartsc0-dev openvpn python-pythonmagick > virtuoso-opensource-6.1-common libqedje0a soprano-daemon libiodbc2 > kaboom > virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin libiptcdata0 python-rdflib > libwebkit1.1-cil libdigest-sha1-perl > Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. > The following extra packages will be installed: > brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common > gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 > gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 > gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 > gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad > libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 libgdata11 > libgdu-gtk0 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 > libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 > libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev libgtk-3-dev > libnautilus-extension-dev libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 > libpeas-common libpoppler-glib6 > libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 libunique-3.0-0 > nautilus-data totem-common > Suggested packages: > libgtk-3-doc > The following packages will be REMOVED: > libbrasero-media0 libnautilus-extension1 seahorse-plugins totem-coherence > The following NEW packages will be installed: > gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 > gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-json-1.0 > gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 > gir1.2-totem-1.0 gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbrasero-media3-1 > libevince3-3 libgdata11 > libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev libnautilus-extension1a > libpeas-1.0-0 libpeas-common libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 > libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 libunique-3.0-0 > The following packages will be upgraded: > brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common libgdu-gtk0 > libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev > libnautilus-extension-dev > nautilus-data totem-common > 10 upgraded, 26 newly installed, 4 to remove and 657 not upgraded. > 19 not fully installed or removed. > Need to get 4,702 kB/37.3 MB of archives. > After this operation, 32.0 MB of additional disk space will be used. > Do you want to continue [Y/n]? > Get:1 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main > gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 i386 0.10.35-1 [554 kB] > Get:2 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main > libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev i386 0.10.35-1 [687 kB] > Get:3 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main > libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 i386 0.10.35-1 [1,005 kB] > Get:4 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad i386 0.10.22-3 [2,456 kB] > Fetched 4,702 kB in 18s (255 kB/s) > Retrieving bug reports... Done > Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done > serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) > #646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good > Summary: > gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) > Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] > Extracting templates from packages: 100% > Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10. > (Reading database ... 315176 files and directories currently installed.) > Unpacking gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 (from > .../gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... > Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev 0.10.32-2 > (using .../libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev ... > Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 0.10.32-2 (using > .../libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 ... > Unpacking gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (from > .../gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... > dpkg: error processing > /var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb > (--unpack): > trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstxvid.so', which is > also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.0 > configured to not write apport reports > dpkg-deb: error: subprocess > paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) > Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-gtk-3.0. > Unpacking gir1.2-gtk-3.0 (from .../gir1.2-gtk-3.0_3.0.12-2_i386.deb) ... > Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-nautilus-3.0. > Unpacking gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 (from > .../gir1.2-nautilus-3.0_3.0.2-4_i386.deb) ... > Selecting previously unselected package libgtk-3-dev. > Unpacking libgtk-3-dev (from .../libgtk-3-dev_3.0.12-2_i386.deb) ... > Preparing to replace libnautilus-extension-dev 2.30.1-3 (using > .../libnautilus-extension-dev_3.0.2-4_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement libnautilus-extension-dev ... > Errors were encountered while processing: > /var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) > > I'm now hung up on the 'gstreamer-plugins-really-bad', which also > wants to take most of gnome with it. OK, it looks like with the files being rearranged between the gstreamer plugin packages (without the correct Replaces and Conflicts statements), it may be simplest to download all of those together and install them at once with a single dpkg -i command. So if you get gstreamer-plugins-really-bad gstreamer-plugins-bad and gstreamer-plugins-really-good with wget and install them at the same time, that might solve the problem. Or it might find yet another gstreamer plugin package that conflicts. My system currently has: ii gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.22-3 GStreamer plugins from the "bad" set ii gstreamer0.10-plugins-base 0.10.35-1 GStreamer plugins from the "base" set ii gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.30-1 GStreamer plugins from the "good" set ii gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly 0.10.18-3 GStreamer plugins from the "ugly" set I don't have gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 17:39:43 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:39:43 -0400 Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive Message-ID: >> The guy who posted the fix actually said to rename the scripts in two >> folders rc2.d and rc3.d > > It was probably in 4 and 5 as well then. ?Either way, renaming it to a I'll check the other directories on Sunday. > stop script isn't the right way to go. ?Removing it when it shouldn't > be there is. ?Asking insserv to reset the udev scripts to the default > state would probably be an even safer way to fix it. > >> It was the package maintainer who snipped out the second one in his >> reply. That's why I don't like all this snipping of posts, it confuses >> things. > > Well it is standard operating procedure on mailing lists and avoids > messages getting overly huge and unmanageable. > >> This hardware is now working as it was before the IO problems, hence >> it is right. > > That is a rather simplistic and wrong way to look at things. Simple yes. Wrong, I'm not so sure. Performance for purpose is the standard benchmark I have to use. > > So if your car drives, it is in perfect condition even if you have a > flat tire or at least a very underinflated tire. ?Just because you don't > see a problem doesn't mean there isn't any. Not the same thing. A flat tire defeats performance for purpose. An underinflated tire does so also, by affecting steering control or, the tire displays visible wear indicators. There are obvious characteristics to go by in troubleshooting the problem. Not so here. The system is functional, maybe not even optimally, but so far it's performing. > >> Or are you looking at this like the new math I had to learn in the >> 70's. It doesn't matter that the answer is wrong, as long as the work >> is shown to have been done correctly. > > Well if the work was done correctly at every step, the answer can't > be wrong. ?Some step has to be done wrong to get the wrong answer. In the case of the new math, if you were following the correct steps while you were learning the process, you didn't completely fail the question, you only partially failed. Right now on boot the only dmesg is related to ACPI and as far as I see thats not malfunctioning. > >> See maybe thats part of the problem, if you are not hot plugging >> anything and the static system is working, why bother with udev? > > Feel free to uninstall it if you don't think it is useful. ?Systems used > to run fine without it, although there was some management of device > nodes and module loading to be done. I like it, I don't like some of what I have to do to control how hooks into the bus are being handled. However HAL is apparently gone in the next stable release. > >> From what I see udev has some problems with uniformly re-identifying >> nodes when the bus is polled on a new trigger. It can take a bit of >> work to sort issues out when that happens. ?It's easier to figure out >> stuff now with udevadm attribute-walk but still, does udev need to run >> as a dameon, why not just kickstart it with some other kernel event. > > To some extent the kernel could be made to kick things, but on the other > hand the kernel developers do seem to like pushing decision making to > user space whenever possible. ?It may also be more efficient to not have > to load and initialize udev for every event. Customized logon's seems to be the goal. Might include a partial initialization sequence, similar to a terminate and stay resident program. Although those were some of the nightmarish reasons I didn't bother with MS products. A global udev event at start and systematic udev events on demand. > >> So I can deal with udev the way I need to. Remember one person's bug >> is another person's feature. >> >> But hey, if you can get your virtual machine built and broken by next >> Sunday, I'll be up at buddies trying to explain to him why his real >> working computer is so abnormal. >> >> We can compare notes then. > > I am installing a VM right now. ?I will have to go see about setting up > a USB keyboard in KVM since I think the default is an AT or PS/2 keyboard > which might not break the same way a USB keyboard would. I told my friend to try rebooting with different usb devices attached. Here's what's normally attached and now functioning. A ps2 keyboard; a usb mouse; a usb keyboard; a usb wireless mouse; a brother mult function unit. print/scan/fax That's all connected via a 5 point usb hub. I haven't enabled any detailed logging. I could have installed sshd, but I usually explain the implications on personal privacy and don't recommend it when I try to help people up the learning curve. Thanks for your response. I appreciate the help. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 17:46:44 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:46:44 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: <20111101172727.GF30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111101142047.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101172727.GF30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 01:11:28PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Lennart Sorensen >> wrote: >> > On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 08:53:51AM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> Yeah, but this is the line that's important: >> >> >> >> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >> > >> > Well that bug will certainly cause a problem for apt/dpkg, but not >> > a problem for the actual program once installed. >> > >> > The suggestion of removing the gstreamer packages and installing them >> > again would almost certainly get around this bug. >> > >> > If possible, remove 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good', then run 'apt-get -f >> > install' again, and let it install the package (even though there is a bug >> > report), then you should be able to install 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good'. >> > Unfortunately removing 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good' will take out a >> > large chunk of gnome among other things. >> > >> > Probably the simplest solution is to download the new version of >> > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good and installing it, then running apt-get to >> > fix the rest. >> > >> > So something like: >> > wget http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gst-plugins-good0.10/gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb (or i386 if that is what you are running) >> > dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb >> > apt-get -f install >> > >> > Basicly the new version (0.10.30 rather than 0.10.24) no longer has >> > the conflicting file that is preventing gstreamer0.10-gconf 0.10.30 >> > from installing. >> >> Now I'm getting this: >> >> node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >> dpkg: considering removing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... >> dpkg: no, cannot proceed with removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad >> (--auto-deconfigure will help): >> ?libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad >> ? gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is to be removed. >> dpkg: regarding gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >> containing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good: >> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good conflicts with gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad >> (<< 0.10.21.2) >> ? gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (version 0.10.19-2.1) is present and installed. >> dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >> (--install): >> ?conflicting packages - not installing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >> Errors were encountered while processing: >> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >> >> So I tried installing the newer version of plugins-bad: >> >> node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >> (Reading database ... 315313 files and directories currently installed.) >> Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.19-2.1 (using >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... >> Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >> dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb (--install): >> ?trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstxvid.so', which is >> also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.0 >> dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) >> Errors were encountered while processing: >> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >> >> So then I tried the suggested --auto-deconfigure: >> >> node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i --auto-deconfigure >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >> dpkg: considering removing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... >> dpkg: yes, will remove gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good. >> (Reading database ... 315313 files and directories currently installed.) >> Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.24-1 (using >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb) ... >> De-configuring gnome-video-effects, to allow removal of >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >> De-configuring libgstfarsight0.10-0, to allow removal of >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >> De-configuring totem-xine, to allow removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >> De-configuring libcheese1, to allow removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >> Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... >> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gstreamer0.10-plugins-good: >> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good depends on libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 >> (>= 0.10.33); however: >> ? Version of libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 on system is 0.10.32-2. >> dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (--install): >> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libcheese1: >> ?libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (>= 0.10.23); however: >> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. >> ?libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: >> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. >> dpkg: error processing libcheese1 (--install): >> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of totem-xine: >> ?totem-xine depends on totem (>= 2.27.1); however: >> ? Package totem is not configured yet. >> ?totem-xine depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: >> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. >> dpkg: error processing totem-xine (--install): >> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libgstfarsight0.10-0: >> ?libgstfarsight0.10-0 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (>= >> 0.10.8); however: >> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. >> ?libgstfarsight0.10-0 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (>= >> 0.10.17); however: >> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. >> dpkg: error processing libgstfarsight0.10-0 (--install): >> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gnome-video-effects: >> ?gnome-video-effects depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good; however: >> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. >> ?gnome-video-effects depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: >> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. >> dpkg: error processing gnome-video-effects (--install): >> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >> Processing triggers for gconf2 ... >> Errors were encountered while processing: >> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >> ?libcheese1 >> ?totem-xine >> ?libgstfarsight0.10-0 >> ?gnome-video-effects >> >> and then apt-get -f install: >> >> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get -f install >> Reading package lists... Done >> Building dependency tree >> Reading state information... Done >> Correcting dependencies... Done >> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: >> ? liblash2 libclucene0ldbl csound-manpages libqca2 libqimageblitz4 >> bind9 libqt4-assistant libhttp-access2-ruby1.8 libsolidcontrolifaces4 >> libqzion0a >> ? gadmin-openvpn-server python-clientform bind9utils oxygen-icon-theme >> oxygencursors libgdata1.4-cil bluez-cups google-gadgets-common phonon >> ? libggadget-qt-1.0-0b lockfile-progs libgps19 >> shared-desktop-ontologies podsleuth python-pypdf google-gadgets-gst >> libggadget-1.0-0b libntrack-qt4-1 >> ? python2.5-dev libpango1.0-common libeina-svn-06 libeet1 >> virtuoso-minimal libakonadiprivate1 libsoprano4 libqt4-webkit >> libvirtodbc0 google-gadgets-xul >> ? libxcb-render-util0-dev libntrack0 gadmin-openvpn-client >> gadmin-rsync libstreamanalyzer0 libphonon4 libpkcs11-helper1 >> thunar-data gadmin-samba >> ? libfluidsynth1 libkephal4 phonon-backend-xine ksysguardd gadmin-bind >> proftpd-basic python-gdbm libattica0 libakonadi-kabc4 libstk0c2a >> akonadi-server >> ? libstreams0 gadmin-proftpd libartsc0-dev openvpn python-pythonmagick >> virtuoso-opensource-6.1-common libqedje0a soprano-daemon libiodbc2 >> kaboom >> ? virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin libiptcdata0 python-rdflib >> libwebkit1.1-cil libdigest-sha1-perl >> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. >> The following extra packages will be installed: >> ? brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common >> gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 >> gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 >> ? gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 >> gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad >> ? libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 libgdata11 >> libgdu-gtk0 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 >> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 >> ? libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev libgtk-3-dev >> libnautilus-extension-dev libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 >> libpeas-common libpoppler-glib6 >> ? libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 libunique-3.0-0 >> nautilus-data totem-common >> Suggested packages: >> ? libgtk-3-doc >> The following packages will be REMOVED: >> ? libbrasero-media0 libnautilus-extension1 seahorse-plugins totem-coherence >> The following NEW packages will be installed: >> ? gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 >> gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-json-1.0 >> gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 >> ? gir1.2-totem-1.0 gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbrasero-media3-1 >> libevince3-3 libgdata11 >> ? libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev libnautilus-extension1a >> libpeas-1.0-0 libpeas-common libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 >> ? libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 libunique-3.0-0 >> The following packages will be upgraded: >> ? brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common libgdu-gtk0 >> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev >> libnautilus-extension-dev >> ? nautilus-data totem-common >> 10 upgraded, 26 newly installed, 4 to remove and 657 not upgraded. >> 19 not fully installed or removed. >> Need to get 4,702 kB/37.3 MB of archives. >> After this operation, 32.0 MB of additional disk space will be used. >> Do you want to continue [Y/n]? >> Get:1 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main >> gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 i386 0.10.35-1 [554 kB] >> Get:2 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main >> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev i386 0.10.35-1 [687 kB] >> Get:3 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main >> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 i386 0.10.35-1 [1,005 kB] >> Get:4 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad i386 0.10.22-3 [2,456 kB] >> Fetched 4,702 kB in 18s (255 kB/s) >> Retrieving bug reports... Done >> Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done >> serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) >> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >> Summary: >> ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) >> Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] >> Extracting templates from packages: 100% >> Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10. >> (Reading database ... 315176 files and directories currently installed.) >> Unpacking gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 (from >> .../gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... >> Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev 0.10.32-2 >> (using .../libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... >> Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev ... >> Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 0.10.32-2 (using >> .../libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... >> Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 ... >> Unpacking gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (from >> .../gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... >> dpkg: error processing >> /var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >> (--unpack): >> ?trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstxvid.so', which is >> also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.0 >> configured to not write apport reports >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dpkg-deb: error: subprocess >> paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) >> Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-gtk-3.0. >> Unpacking gir1.2-gtk-3.0 (from .../gir1.2-gtk-3.0_3.0.12-2_i386.deb) ... >> Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-nautilus-3.0. >> Unpacking gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 (from >> .../gir1.2-nautilus-3.0_3.0.2-4_i386.deb) ... >> Selecting previously unselected package libgtk-3-dev. >> Unpacking libgtk-3-dev (from .../libgtk-3-dev_3.0.12-2_i386.deb) ... >> Preparing to replace libnautilus-extension-dev 2.30.1-3 (using >> .../libnautilus-extension-dev_3.0.2-4_i386.deb) ... >> Unpacking replacement libnautilus-extension-dev ... >> Errors were encountered while processing: >> ?/var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) >> >> I'm now hung up on the 'gstreamer-plugins-really-bad', which also >> wants to take most of gnome with it. > > OK, it looks like with the files being rearranged between the gstreamer > plugin packages (without the correct Replaces and Conflicts statements), > it may be simplest to download all of those together and install them > at once with a single dpkg -i command. > > So if you get gstreamer-plugins-really-bad gstreamer-plugins-bad and > gstreamer-plugins-really-good with wget and install them at the same time, > that might solve the problem. ?Or it might find yet another gstreamer > plugin package that conflicts. > > My system currently has: > ii ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ? ?0.10.22-3 ? GStreamer plugins from the "bad" set > ii ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-base ? 0.10.35-1 ? GStreamer plugins from the "base" set > ii ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ? 0.10.30-1 ? GStreamer plugins from the "good" set > ii ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly ? 0.10.18-3 ? GStreamer plugins from the "ugly" set > > I don't have gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad. > That one is in Debian Multimedia. However, not it's asking for: libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 (>= 0.10.33) but I can't find that in either the debian repo you linked to or Debian Multimedia. -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From zensunnit-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 17:59:45 2011 From: zensunnit-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (zensunnit) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CE66D72C86FE2F-278C-1304B7@webmail-m150.sysops.aol.com> unsubscribe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 18:12:43 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:12:43 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142047.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101172727.GF30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 01:11:28PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Lennart Sorensen >>> wrote: >>> > On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 08:53:51AM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>> >> Yeah, but this is the line that's important: >>> >> >>> >> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >>> > >>> > Well that bug will certainly cause a problem for apt/dpkg, but not >>> > a problem for the actual program once installed. >>> > >>> > The suggestion of removing the gstreamer packages and installing them >>> > again would almost certainly get around this bug. >>> > >>> > If possible, remove 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good', then run 'apt-get -f >>> > install' again, and let it install the package (even though there is a bug >>> > report), then you should be able to install 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good'. >>> > Unfortunately removing 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good' will take out a >>> > large chunk of gnome among other things. >>> > >>> > Probably the simplest solution is to download the new version of >>> > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good and installing it, then running apt-get to >>> > fix the rest. >>> > >>> > So something like: >>> > wget http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gst-plugins-good0.10/gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb (or i386 if that is what you are running) >>> > dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb >>> > apt-get -f install >>> > >>> > Basicly the new version (0.10.30 rather than 0.10.24) no longer has >>> > the conflicting file that is preventing gstreamer0.10-gconf 0.10.30 >>> > from installing. >>> >>> Now I'm getting this: >>> >>> node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >>> dpkg: considering removing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of >>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... >>> dpkg: no, cannot proceed with removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad >>> (--auto-deconfigure will help): >>> ?libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad >>> ? gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is to be removed. >>> dpkg: regarding gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >>> containing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good: >>> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good conflicts with gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad >>> (<< 0.10.21.2) >>> ? gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (version 0.10.19-2.1) is present and installed. >>> dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >>> (--install): >>> ?conflicting packages - not installing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >>> Errors were encountered while processing: >>> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >>> >>> So I tried installing the newer version of plugins-bad: >>> >>> node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >>> (Reading database ... 315313 files and directories currently installed.) >>> Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.19-2.1 (using >>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... >>> Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >>> dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb (--install): >>> ?trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstxvid.so', which is >>> also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.0 >>> dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) >>> Errors were encountered while processing: >>> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >>> >>> So then I tried the suggested --auto-deconfigure: >>> >>> node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i --auto-deconfigure >>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >>> dpkg: considering removing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of >>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... >>> dpkg: yes, will remove gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of >>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good. >>> (Reading database ... 315313 files and directories currently installed.) >>> Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.24-1 (using >>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb) ... >>> De-configuring gnome-video-effects, to allow removal of >>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >>> De-configuring libgstfarsight0.10-0, to allow removal of >>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >>> De-configuring totem-xine, to allow removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >>> De-configuring libcheese1, to allow removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >>> Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... >>> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gstreamer0.10-plugins-good: >>> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good depends on libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 >>> (>= 0.10.33); however: >>> ? Version of libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 on system is 0.10.32-2. >>> dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (--install): >>> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >>> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libcheese1: >>> ?libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (>= 0.10.23); however: >>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. >>> ?libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: >>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. >>> dpkg: error processing libcheese1 (--install): >>> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >>> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of totem-xine: >>> ?totem-xine depends on totem (>= 2.27.1); however: >>> ? Package totem is not configured yet. >>> ?totem-xine depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: >>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. >>> dpkg: error processing totem-xine (--install): >>> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >>> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libgstfarsight0.10-0: >>> ?libgstfarsight0.10-0 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (>= >>> 0.10.8); however: >>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. >>> ?libgstfarsight0.10-0 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (>= >>> 0.10.17); however: >>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. >>> dpkg: error processing libgstfarsight0.10-0 (--install): >>> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >>> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gnome-video-effects: >>> ?gnome-video-effects depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good; however: >>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. >>> ?gnome-video-effects depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: >>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. >>> dpkg: error processing gnome-video-effects (--install): >>> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >>> Processing triggers for gconf2 ... >>> Errors were encountered while processing: >>> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >>> ?libcheese1 >>> ?totem-xine >>> ?libgstfarsight0.10-0 >>> ?gnome-video-effects >>> >>> and then apt-get -f install: >>> >>> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get -f install >>> Reading package lists... Done >>> Building dependency tree >>> Reading state information... Done >>> Correcting dependencies... Done >>> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: >>> ? liblash2 libclucene0ldbl csound-manpages libqca2 libqimageblitz4 >>> bind9 libqt4-assistant libhttp-access2-ruby1.8 libsolidcontrolifaces4 >>> libqzion0a >>> ? gadmin-openvpn-server python-clientform bind9utils oxygen-icon-theme >>> oxygencursors libgdata1.4-cil bluez-cups google-gadgets-common phonon >>> ? libggadget-qt-1.0-0b lockfile-progs libgps19 >>> shared-desktop-ontologies podsleuth python-pypdf google-gadgets-gst >>> libggadget-1.0-0b libntrack-qt4-1 >>> ? python2.5-dev libpango1.0-common libeina-svn-06 libeet1 >>> virtuoso-minimal libakonadiprivate1 libsoprano4 libqt4-webkit >>> libvirtodbc0 google-gadgets-xul >>> ? libxcb-render-util0-dev libntrack0 gadmin-openvpn-client >>> gadmin-rsync libstreamanalyzer0 libphonon4 libpkcs11-helper1 >>> thunar-data gadmin-samba >>> ? libfluidsynth1 libkephal4 phonon-backend-xine ksysguardd gadmin-bind >>> proftpd-basic python-gdbm libattica0 libakonadi-kabc4 libstk0c2a >>> akonadi-server >>> ? libstreams0 gadmin-proftpd libartsc0-dev openvpn python-pythonmagick >>> virtuoso-opensource-6.1-common libqedje0a soprano-daemon libiodbc2 >>> kaboom >>> ? virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin libiptcdata0 python-rdflib >>> libwebkit1.1-cil libdigest-sha1-perl >>> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. >>> The following extra packages will be installed: >>> ? brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common >>> gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 >>> gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 >>> ? gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 >>> gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf >>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad >>> ? libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 libgdata11 >>> libgdu-gtk0 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 >>> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 >>> ? libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev libgtk-3-dev >>> libnautilus-extension-dev libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 >>> libpeas-common libpoppler-glib6 >>> ? libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 libunique-3.0-0 >>> nautilus-data totem-common >>> Suggested packages: >>> ? libgtk-3-doc >>> The following packages will be REMOVED: >>> ? libbrasero-media0 libnautilus-extension1 seahorse-plugins totem-coherence >>> The following NEW packages will be installed: >>> ? gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 >>> gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-json-1.0 >>> gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 >>> ? gir1.2-totem-1.0 gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf >>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbrasero-media3-1 >>> libevince3-3 libgdata11 >>> ? libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev libnautilus-extension1a >>> libpeas-1.0-0 libpeas-common libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 >>> ? libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 libunique-3.0-0 >>> The following packages will be upgraded: >>> ? brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common libgdu-gtk0 >>> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev >>> libnautilus-extension-dev >>> ? nautilus-data totem-common >>> 10 upgraded, 26 newly installed, 4 to remove and 657 not upgraded. >>> 19 not fully installed or removed. >>> Need to get 4,702 kB/37.3 MB of archives. >>> After this operation, 32.0 MB of additional disk space will be used. >>> Do you want to continue [Y/n]? >>> Get:1 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main >>> gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 i386 0.10.35-1 [554 kB] >>> Get:2 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main >>> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev i386 0.10.35-1 [687 kB] >>> Get:3 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main >>> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 i386 0.10.35-1 [1,005 kB] >>> Get:4 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main >>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad i386 0.10.22-3 [2,456 kB] >>> Fetched 4,702 kB in 18s (255 kB/s) >>> Retrieving bug reports... Done >>> Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done >>> serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) >>> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >>> Summary: >>> ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) >>> Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] >>> Extracting templates from packages: 100% >>> Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10. >>> (Reading database ... 315176 files and directories currently installed.) >>> Unpacking gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 (from >>> .../gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... >>> Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev 0.10.32-2 >>> (using .../libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... >>> Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev ... >>> Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 0.10.32-2 (using >>> .../libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... >>> Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 ... >>> Unpacking gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (from >>> .../gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... >>> dpkg: error processing >>> /var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >>> (--unpack): >>> ?trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstxvid.so', which is >>> also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.0 >>> configured to not write apport reports >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dpkg-deb: error: subprocess >>> paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) >>> Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-gtk-3.0. >>> Unpacking gir1.2-gtk-3.0 (from .../gir1.2-gtk-3.0_3.0.12-2_i386.deb) ... >>> Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-nautilus-3.0. >>> Unpacking gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 (from >>> .../gir1.2-nautilus-3.0_3.0.2-4_i386.deb) ... >>> Selecting previously unselected package libgtk-3-dev. >>> Unpacking libgtk-3-dev (from .../libgtk-3-dev_3.0.12-2_i386.deb) ... >>> Preparing to replace libnautilus-extension-dev 2.30.1-3 (using >>> .../libnautilus-extension-dev_3.0.2-4_i386.deb) ... >>> Unpacking replacement libnautilus-extension-dev ... >>> Errors were encountered while processing: >>> ?/var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >>> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) >>> >>> I'm now hung up on the 'gstreamer-plugins-really-bad', which also >>> wants to take most of gnome with it. >> >> OK, it looks like with the files being rearranged between the gstreamer >> plugin packages (without the correct Replaces and Conflicts statements), >> it may be simplest to download all of those together and install them >> at once with a single dpkg -i command. >> >> So if you get gstreamer-plugins-really-bad gstreamer-plugins-bad and >> gstreamer-plugins-really-good with wget and install them at the same time, >> that might solve the problem. ?Or it might find yet another gstreamer >> plugin package that conflicts. >> >> My system currently has: >> ii ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ? ?0.10.22-3 ? GStreamer plugins from the "bad" set >> ii ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-base ? 0.10.35-1 ? GStreamer plugins from the "base" set >> ii ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ? 0.10.30-1 ? GStreamer plugins from the "good" set >> ii ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly ? 0.10.18-3 ? GStreamer plugins from the "ugly" set >> >> I don't have gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad. >> > > That one is in Debian Multimedia. However, not it's asking for: > > libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 (>= 0.10.33) > > but I can't find that in either the debian repo you linked to or > Debian Multimedia. > Okay, found it (same dir as gstreamer plugins), but now this: node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad_0.10.22-0.2_i386.deb gstreamer0.10-plugins-base_0.10.35-1_i386.deb libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb (Reading database ... 315672 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.22-3 (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.30-1 (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.2 (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad_0.10.22-0.2_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad ... Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-base 0.10.35-1 (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-base_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-base ... Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 0.10.35-1 (using libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 ... dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad: gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad depends on libmjpegtools-2.0-0; however: Package libmjpegtools-2.0-0 is not installed. dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad (--install): dependency problems - leaving unconfigured Setting up libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 (0.10.35-1) ... Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-base (0.10.35-1) ... Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (0.10.22-3) ... Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (0.10.30-1) ... Processing triggers for libglib2.0-0 ... Errors were encountered while processing: gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad Goddamit! -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 18:13:16 2011 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:13:16 -0400 Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive In-Reply-To: <8CE66D72C86FE2F-278C-1304B7-n3SY6/QrmYWKNLp2mFNRrrQXJ8qk6zCwQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <8CE66D72C86FE2F-278C-1304B7@webmail-m150.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:59 PM, zensunnit wrote: > unsubscribe It's not possible to unsubscribe from this thread, or everyone would want to do it. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 18:14:16 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:14:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: a plea: trim quoted text & don't top-post In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142047.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101172727.GF30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I just got a 300 line message with 6 lines of added content in one lump. Please consider the reader and be selective in your quoting. I encourage you to not top post on this list. I guess that is covered by the previous point since top isn't selective. People on this list should already have recently seen what you are quoting. Interleaved selective quoting often helps pinpoint what you are referring to, but this is seldom the case for wholesale quoting. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 18:19:05 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:19:05 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142047.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101172727.GF30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen >> wrote: >>> On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 01:11:28PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Lennart Sorensen >>>> wrote: >>>> > On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 08:53:51AM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>>> >> Yeah, but this is the line that's important: >>>> >> >>>> >> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >>>> > >>>> > Well that bug will certainly cause a problem for apt/dpkg, but not >>>> > a problem for the actual program once installed. >>>> > >>>> > The suggestion of removing the gstreamer packages and installing them >>>> > again would almost certainly get around this bug. >>>> > >>>> > If possible, remove 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good', then run 'apt-get -f >>>> > install' again, and let it install the package (even though there is a bug >>>> > report), then you should be able to install 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good'. >>>> > Unfortunately removing 'gstreamer0.10-plugins-good' will take out a >>>> > large chunk of gnome among other things. >>>> > >>>> > Probably the simplest solution is to download the new version of >>>> > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good and installing it, then running apt-get to >>>> > fix the rest. >>>> > >>>> > So something like: >>>> > wget http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gst-plugins-good0.10/gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb (or i386 if that is what you are running) >>>> > dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb >>>> > apt-get -f install >>>> > >>>> > Basicly the new version (0.10.30 rather than 0.10.24) no longer has >>>> > the conflicting file that is preventing gstreamer0.10-gconf 0.10.30 >>>> > from installing. >>>> >>>> Now I'm getting this: >>>> >>>> node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >>>> dpkg: considering removing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of >>>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... >>>> dpkg: no, cannot proceed with removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad >>>> (--auto-deconfigure will help): >>>> ?libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad >>>> ? gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is to be removed. >>>> dpkg: regarding gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >>>> containing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good: >>>> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good conflicts with gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad >>>> (<< 0.10.21.2) >>>> ? gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (version 0.10.19-2.1) is present and installed. >>>> dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >>>> (--install): >>>> ?conflicting packages - not installing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >>>> Errors were encountered while processing: >>>> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >>>> >>>> So I tried installing the newer version of plugins-bad: >>>> >>>> node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >>>> (Reading database ... 315313 files and directories currently installed.) >>>> Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.19-2.1 (using >>>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... >>>> Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >>>> dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb (--install): >>>> ?trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstxvid.so', which is >>>> also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.0 >>>> dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) >>>> Errors were encountered while processing: >>>> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >>>> >>>> So then I tried the suggested --auto-deconfigure: >>>> >>>> node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i --auto-deconfigure >>>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >>>> dpkg: considering removing gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of >>>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... >>>> dpkg: yes, will remove gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad in favour of >>>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good. >>>> (Reading database ... 315313 files and directories currently installed.) >>>> Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.24-1 (using >>>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb) ... >>>> De-configuring gnome-video-effects, to allow removal of >>>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >>>> De-configuring libgstfarsight0.10-0, to allow removal of >>>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >>>> De-configuring totem-xine, to allow removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >>>> De-configuring libcheese1, to allow removal of gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >>>> Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... >>>> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gstreamer0.10-plugins-good: >>>> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good depends on libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 >>>> (>= 0.10.33); however: >>>> ? Version of libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 on system is 0.10.32-2. >>>> dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (--install): >>>> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >>>> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libcheese1: >>>> ?libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (>= 0.10.23); however: >>>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. >>>> ?libcheese1 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: >>>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. >>>> dpkg: error processing libcheese1 (--install): >>>> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >>>> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of totem-xine: >>>> ?totem-xine depends on totem (>= 2.27.1); however: >>>> ? Package totem is not configured yet. >>>> ?totem-xine depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: >>>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. >>>> dpkg: error processing totem-xine (--install): >>>> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >>>> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libgstfarsight0.10-0: >>>> ?libgstfarsight0.10-0 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (>= >>>> 0.10.8); however: >>>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. >>>> ?libgstfarsight0.10-0 depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (>= >>>> 0.10.17); however: >>>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. >>>> dpkg: error processing libgstfarsight0.10-0 (--install): >>>> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >>>> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gnome-video-effects: >>>> ?gnome-video-effects depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good; however: >>>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good is not configured yet. >>>> ?gnome-video-effects depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad; however: >>>> ? Package gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad is not installed. >>>> dpkg: error processing gnome-video-effects (--install): >>>> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >>>> Processing triggers for gconf2 ... >>>> Errors were encountered while processing: >>>> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >>>> ?libcheese1 >>>> ?totem-xine >>>> ?libgstfarsight0.10-0 >>>> ?gnome-video-effects >>>> >>>> and then apt-get -f install: >>>> >>>> node1:/home/joehill# apt-get -f install >>>> Reading package lists... Done >>>> Building dependency tree >>>> Reading state information... Done >>>> Correcting dependencies... Done >>>> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: >>>> ? liblash2 libclucene0ldbl csound-manpages libqca2 libqimageblitz4 >>>> bind9 libqt4-assistant libhttp-access2-ruby1.8 libsolidcontrolifaces4 >>>> libqzion0a >>>> ? gadmin-openvpn-server python-clientform bind9utils oxygen-icon-theme >>>> oxygencursors libgdata1.4-cil bluez-cups google-gadgets-common phonon >>>> ? libggadget-qt-1.0-0b lockfile-progs libgps19 >>>> shared-desktop-ontologies podsleuth python-pypdf google-gadgets-gst >>>> libggadget-1.0-0b libntrack-qt4-1 >>>> ? python2.5-dev libpango1.0-common libeina-svn-06 libeet1 >>>> virtuoso-minimal libakonadiprivate1 libsoprano4 libqt4-webkit >>>> libvirtodbc0 google-gadgets-xul >>>> ? libxcb-render-util0-dev libntrack0 gadmin-openvpn-client >>>> gadmin-rsync libstreamanalyzer0 libphonon4 libpkcs11-helper1 >>>> thunar-data gadmin-samba >>>> ? libfluidsynth1 libkephal4 phonon-backend-xine ksysguardd gadmin-bind >>>> proftpd-basic python-gdbm libattica0 libakonadi-kabc4 libstk0c2a >>>> akonadi-server >>>> ? libstreams0 gadmin-proftpd libartsc0-dev openvpn python-pythonmagick >>>> virtuoso-opensource-6.1-common libqedje0a soprano-daemon libiodbc2 >>>> kaboom >>>> ? virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin libiptcdata0 python-rdflib >>>> libwebkit1.1-cil libdigest-sha1-perl >>>> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. >>>> The following extra packages will be installed: >>>> ? brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common >>>> gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 >>>> gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 >>>> ? gir1.2-json-1.0 gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 gir1.2-totem-1.0 >>>> gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf >>>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad >>>> ? libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbrasero-media3-1 libevince3-3 libgdata11 >>>> libgdu-gtk0 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 >>>> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 >>>> ? libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev libgtk-3-dev >>>> libnautilus-extension-dev libnautilus-extension1a libpeas-1.0-0 >>>> libpeas-common libpoppler-glib6 >>>> ? libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 libunique-3.0-0 >>>> nautilus-data totem-common >>>> Suggested packages: >>>> ? libgtk-3-doc >>>> The following packages will be REMOVED: >>>> ? libbrasero-media0 libnautilus-extension1 seahorse-plugins totem-coherence >>>> The following NEW packages will be installed: >>>> ? gir1.2-clutter-1.0 gir1.2-cogl-1.0 gir1.2-coglpango-1.0 >>>> gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 gir1.2-gtk-3.0 gir1.2-json-1.0 >>>> gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 gir1.2-peas-1.0 >>>> ? gir1.2-totem-1.0 gir1.2-totem-plparser-1.0 gstreamer0.10-gconf >>>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad libavahi-ui-gtk3-0 libbrasero-media3-1 >>>> libevince3-3 libgdata11 >>>> ? libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgtk-3-dev libnautilus-extension1a >>>> libpeas-1.0-0 libpeas-common libpoppler-glib6 libseed-gtk3-0 libtotem0 >>>> ? libtracker-sparql-0.10-0 libunique-3.0-0 >>>> The following packages will be upgraded: >>>> ? brasero brasero-common empathy-common evince-common libgdu-gtk0 >>>> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev >>>> libnautilus-extension-dev >>>> ? nautilus-data totem-common >>>> 10 upgraded, 26 newly installed, 4 to remove and 657 not upgraded. >>>> 19 not fully installed or removed. >>>> Need to get 4,702 kB/37.3 MB of archives. >>>> After this operation, 32.0 MB of additional disk space will be used. >>>> Do you want to continue [Y/n]? >>>> Get:1 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main >>>> gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 i386 0.10.35-1 [554 kB] >>>> Get:2 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main >>>> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev i386 0.10.35-1 [687 kB] >>>> Get:3 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main >>>> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 i386 0.10.35-1 [1,005 kB] >>>> Get:4 http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable/main >>>> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad i386 0.10.22-3 [2,456 kB] >>>> Fetched 4,702 kB in 18s (255 kB/s) >>>> Retrieving bug reports... Done >>>> Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done >>>> serious bugs of gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1) >>>> ?#646325 - gstreamer0.10-gconf needs to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good >>>> Summary: >>>> ?gstreamer0.10-gconf(1 bug) >>>> Are you sure you want to install/upgrade the above packages? [Y/n/?/...] >>>> Extracting templates from packages: 100% >>>> Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10. >>>> (Reading database ... 315176 files and directories currently installed.) >>>> Unpacking gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10 (from >>>> .../gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-0.10_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... >>>> Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev 0.10.32-2 >>>> (using .../libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... >>>> Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev ... >>>> Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 0.10.32-2 (using >>>> .../libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... >>>> Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 ... >>>> Unpacking gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (from >>>> .../gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... >>>> dpkg: error processing >>>> /var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >>>> (--unpack): >>>> ?trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstxvid.so', which is >>>> also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.0 >>>> configured to not write apport reports >>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dpkg-deb: error: subprocess >>>> paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe) >>>> Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-gtk-3.0. >>>> Unpacking gir1.2-gtk-3.0 (from .../gir1.2-gtk-3.0_3.0.12-2_i386.deb) ... >>>> Selecting previously unselected package gir1.2-nautilus-3.0. >>>> Unpacking gir1.2-nautilus-3.0 (from >>>> .../gir1.2-nautilus-3.0_3.0.2-4_i386.deb) ... >>>> Selecting previously unselected package libgtk-3-dev. >>>> Unpacking libgtk-3-dev (from .../libgtk-3-dev_3.0.12-2_i386.deb) ... >>>> Preparing to replace libnautilus-extension-dev 2.30.1-3 (using >>>> .../libnautilus-extension-dev_3.0.2-4_i386.deb) ... >>>> Unpacking replacement libnautilus-extension-dev ... >>>> Errors were encountered while processing: >>>> ?/var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >>>> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) >>>> >>>> I'm now hung up on the 'gstreamer-plugins-really-bad', which also >>>> wants to take most of gnome with it. >>> >>> OK, it looks like with the files being rearranged between the gstreamer >>> plugin packages (without the correct Replaces and Conflicts statements), >>> it may be simplest to download all of those together and install them >>> at once with a single dpkg -i command. >>> >>> So if you get gstreamer-plugins-really-bad gstreamer-plugins-bad and >>> gstreamer-plugins-really-good with wget and install them at the same time, >>> that might solve the problem. ?Or it might find yet another gstreamer >>> plugin package that conflicts. >>> >>> My system currently has: >>> ii ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ? ?0.10.22-3 ? GStreamer plugins from the "bad" set >>> ii ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-base ? 0.10.35-1 ? GStreamer plugins from the "base" set >>> ii ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ? 0.10.30-1 ? GStreamer plugins from the "good" set >>> ii ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly ? 0.10.18-3 ? GStreamer plugins from the "ugly" set >>> >>> I don't have gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad. >>> >> >> That one is in Debian Multimedia. However, not it's asking for: >> >> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 (>= 0.10.33) >> >> but I can't find that in either the debian repo you linked to or >> Debian Multimedia. >> > > Okay, found it (same dir as gstreamer plugins), but now this: > > node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb > gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad_0.10.22-0.2_i386.deb > gstreamer0.10-plugins-base_0.10.35-1_i386.deb > libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb > (Reading database ... 315672 files and directories currently installed.) > Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.22-3 (using > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... > Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.30-1 (using > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... > Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.2 > (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad_0.10.22-0.2_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad ... > Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-base 0.10.35-1 (using > gstreamer0.10-plugins-base_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-base ... > Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 0.10.35-1 (using > libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 ... > dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of > gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad: > ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad depends on libmjpegtools-2.0-0; however: > ?Package libmjpegtools-2.0-0 is not installed. > dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad (--install): > ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured > Setting up libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 (0.10.35-1) ... > Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-base (0.10.35-1) ... > Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (0.10.22-3) ... > Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (0.10.30-1) ... > Processing triggers for libglib2.0-0 ... > Errors were encountered while processing: > ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad > > Goddamit! > node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad_0.10.22-0.2_i386.deb gstreamer0.10-plugins-base_0.10.35-1_i386.deb libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb libmjpegtools-2.0-0_2.0.0-0.4_i386.deb libquicktime2_1.2.3-0.2_i386.deb (Reading database ... 315688 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.22-3 (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.30-1 (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.2 (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad_0.10.22-0.2_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad ... Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-base 0.10.35-1 (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-base_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-base ... Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 0.10.35-1 (using libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 ... Preparing to replace libmjpegtools-2.0-0 1:2.0.0-0.4 (using libmjpegtools-2.0-0_2.0.0-0.4_i386.deb) ... Unpacking replacement libmjpegtools-2.0-0 ... Selecting previously unselected package libquicktime2. Unpacking libquicktime2 (from libquicktime2_1.2.3-0.2_i386.deb) ... Setting up libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 (0.10.35-1) ... dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libquicktime2: libquicktime2 depends on libavcodec53 (>= 5:0.8.4); however: Package libavcodec53 is not installed. libquicktime2 depends on libavutil51 (>= 5:0.8.4); however: Package libavutil51 is not installed. libquicktime2 depends on libswscale2 (>= 5:0.8.4); however: Package libswscale2 is not installed. libquicktime2 depends on libx264-118 (>= 3:0.118.2085+git8a62835); however: Package libx264-118 is not installed. dpkg: error processing libquicktime2 (--install): dependency problems - leaving unconfigured Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-base (0.10.35-1) ... dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libmjpegtools-2.0-0: libmjpegtools-2.0-0 depends on libquicktime2 (>= 3:1.2.3); however: Package libquicktime2 is not configured yet. dpkg: error processing libmjpegtools-2.0-0 (--install): dependency problems - leaving unconfigured Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (0.10.22-3) ... Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (0.10.30-1) ... dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad: gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad depends on libmjpegtools-2.0-0; however: Package libmjpegtools-2.0-0 is not configured yet. dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad (--install): dependency problems - leaving unconfigured Processing triggers for libglib2.0-0 ... Errors were encountered while processing: libquicktime2 libmjpegtools-2.0-0 gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad I think this is just going to go on forever. -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 18:21:16 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:21:16 -0400 Subject: a plea: trim quoted text & don't top-post In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142047.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101172727.GF30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:14 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I just got a 300 line message with 6 lines of added content in one > lump. ?Please consider the reader and be selective in your quoting. Ha, that was probably me with all the apt errors, right? Sorry, with GMail I don't see all that because quoted text is hidden by default. > I encourage you to not top post on this list. ?I guess that is covered > by the previous point since top isn't selective. I do not top post unless the thread is already dominated by top-posters. At that point it's hopeless to try anyway. > People on this list should already have recently seen what you are > quoting. ?Interleaved selective quoting often helps pinpoint what you are > referring to, but this is seldom the case for wholesale quoting. -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 18:36:33 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:36:33 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142047.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101172727.GF30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: chomp! > node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb > gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad_0.10.22-0.2_i386.deb > gstreamer0.10-plugins-base_0.10.35-1_i386.deb > libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb > libmjpegtools-2.0-0_2.0.0-0.4_i386.deb > libquicktime2_1.2.3-0.2_i386.deb > (Reading database ... 315688 files and directories currently installed.) > Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.22-3 (using > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... > Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.30-1 (using > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... > Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.2 > (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad_0.10.22-0.2_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad ... > Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-base 0.10.35-1 (using > gstreamer0.10-plugins-base_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-base ... > Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 0.10.35-1 (using > libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 ... > Preparing to replace libmjpegtools-2.0-0 1:2.0.0-0.4 (using > libmjpegtools-2.0-0_2.0.0-0.4_i386.deb) ... > Unpacking replacement libmjpegtools-2.0-0 ... > Selecting previously unselected package libquicktime2. > Unpacking libquicktime2 (from libquicktime2_1.2.3-0.2_i386.deb) ... > Setting up libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 (0.10.35-1) ... > dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libquicktime2: > ?libquicktime2 depends on libavcodec53 (>= 5:0.8.4); however: > ?Package libavcodec53 is not installed. > ?libquicktime2 depends on libavutil51 (>= 5:0.8.4); however: > ?Package libavutil51 is not installed. > ?libquicktime2 depends on libswscale2 (>= 5:0.8.4); however: > ?Package libswscale2 is not installed. > ?libquicktime2 depends on libx264-118 (>= 3:0.118.2085+git8a62835); however: > ?Package libx264-118 is not installed. > dpkg: error processing libquicktime2 (--install): > ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured > Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-base (0.10.35-1) ... > dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libmjpegtools-2.0-0: > ?libmjpegtools-2.0-0 depends on libquicktime2 (>= 3:1.2.3); however: > ?Package libquicktime2 is not configured yet. > dpkg: error processing libmjpegtools-2.0-0 (--install): > ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured > Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (0.10.22-3) ... > Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (0.10.30-1) ... > dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of > gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad: > ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad depends on libmjpegtools-2.0-0; however: > ?Package libmjpegtools-2.0-0 is not configured yet. > dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad (--install): > ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured > Processing triggers for libglib2.0-0 ... > Errors were encountered while processing: > ?libquicktime2 > ?libmjpegtools-2.0-0 > ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad > > I think this is just going to go on forever. > > -- > Thomas Milne > What if I just wait til someone fixes the bug in gstreamer0.10-gconf (-> 0.10.30-1), and then it should just proceed automagically, no? -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 18:45:48 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:45:48 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142047.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101172727.GF30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Thomas Milne >> wrote: > chomp! >> node1:/home/joehill# dpkg -i >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad_0.10.22-0.2_i386.deb >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-base_0.10.35-1_i386.deb >> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb >> libmjpegtools-2.0-0_2.0.0-0.4_i386.deb >> libquicktime2_1.2.3-0.2_i386.deb >> (Reading database ... 315688 files and directories currently installed.) >> Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 0.10.22-3 (using >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad_0.10.22-3_i386.deb) ... >> Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad ... >> Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.30-1 (using >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-good_0.10.30-1_i386.deb) ... >> Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-good ... >> Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.22-0.2 >> (using gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad_0.10.22-0.2_i386.deb) ... >> Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad ... >> Preparing to replace gstreamer0.10-plugins-base 0.10.35-1 (using >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-base_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... >> Unpacking replacement gstreamer0.10-plugins-base ... >> Preparing to replace libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 0.10.35-1 (using >> libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_i386.deb) ... >> Unpacking replacement libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 ... >> Preparing to replace libmjpegtools-2.0-0 1:2.0.0-0.4 (using >> libmjpegtools-2.0-0_2.0.0-0.4_i386.deb) ... >> Unpacking replacement libmjpegtools-2.0-0 ... >> Selecting previously unselected package libquicktime2. >> Unpacking libquicktime2 (from libquicktime2_1.2.3-0.2_i386.deb) ... >> Setting up libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 (0.10.35-1) ... >> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libquicktime2: >> ?libquicktime2 depends on libavcodec53 (>= 5:0.8.4); however: >> ?Package libavcodec53 is not installed. >> ?libquicktime2 depends on libavutil51 (>= 5:0.8.4); however: >> ?Package libavutil51 is not installed. >> ?libquicktime2 depends on libswscale2 (>= 5:0.8.4); however: >> ?Package libswscale2 is not installed. >> ?libquicktime2 depends on libx264-118 (>= 3:0.118.2085+git8a62835); however: >> ?Package libx264-118 is not installed. >> dpkg: error processing libquicktime2 (--install): >> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >> Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-base (0.10.35-1) ... >> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libmjpegtools-2.0-0: >> ?libmjpegtools-2.0-0 depends on libquicktime2 (>= 3:1.2.3); however: >> ?Package libquicktime2 is not configured yet. >> dpkg: error processing libmjpegtools-2.0-0 (--install): >> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >> Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad (0.10.22-3) ... >> Setting up gstreamer0.10-plugins-good (0.10.30-1) ... >> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of >> gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad: >> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad depends on libmjpegtools-2.0-0; however: >> ?Package libmjpegtools-2.0-0 is not configured yet. >> dpkg: error processing gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad (--install): >> ?dependency problems - leaving unconfigured >> Processing triggers for libglib2.0-0 ... >> Errors were encountered while processing: >> ?libquicktime2 >> ?libmjpegtools-2.0-0 >> ?gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad >> >> I think this is just going to go on forever. >> >> -- >> Thomas Milne >> > > What if I just wait til someone fixes the bug in gstreamer0.10-gconf > (-> 0.10.30-1), and then it should just proceed automagically, no? > > -- > Thomas Milne > I forgot I only needed to get the gstreamer stuff fixed, then run apt-get -f install. Now it worked. Damn, apt really is a miracle if it can untangle that mess. Thanks Lennart!! -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 19:24:47 2011 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 15:24:47 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu Canada IRC meeting tonight at 8:00pm EDT Message-ID: <4EB0477F.4050104@sobac.com> Hi all: Just wanted to mention that the Ubuntu Canada monthy IRC chat is happening tonight, free and open to everyone. Please join us in the #ubuntu-ca IRC channel on Freenode: irc://irc.freenode.net/#ubuntu-ca. Freenode Webchat at http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-ca Agenda (and eventually Minutes and Logs) at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Meetings/2011-11-01 --Bob. -- Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Voice: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cel: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office& Business Automation --- Consulting -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 19:34:30 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 15:34:30 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142835.GB30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: > >> Gnome and gstreamer certainly can be hassle. ?I think I usually end up >> using mplayer in the end after giving up on whatever gnome has tried >> to do. > > I dumped totem completely in favour of vlc on my own system. Ten or so > years ago, when I was using Red Hat, I dumped Gnome in favour of > Enlightenment, after gnome seemed to become a resource hog. It's > better now but with so many developers, each working on their own > little bit of things, uniformity is hard to come by. > > Aptitude is great, but it's not a panacea for problems. It's just > another tool in the toolbox. > This I totally disagree with. I used to hack away at solving problems, building things from source and hand-editing config files, and so on. I have been running Debian for a few years now, and I have never had to build anything from source. Debian Unstable is as up to date as I could possibly want, and apt never fails, ever. The only reason I had a problem this time was I ignored something apt was telling me that was clearly going to be a problem, or at least had a high risk of becoming one. Otherwise, this system has been through update after update, even dist upgrades, and never once had a problem. I no longer have the time to spend on making my system some highly customized and optimized thing, I just want it to work. I really can't imagine using anything else but Debian. With due respect to all the very knowledgeable RH, Ubuntu, and Gentoo users, I don't understand the reasoning behind using any other distribution, other than just taste I guess. -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 19:55:46 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 15:55:46 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: <20111101142835.GB30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111101142835.GB30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 09:07:34AM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: >> They are all important lines, sometime's you have to read between them. > > Certainly true. ?Certainly in this case the important line would have been: > E: /var/cache/apt/archives/gstreamer0.10-gconf_0.10.30-1_amd64.deb: > ?trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstgconfelements.so', > ?which is also in package gstreamer0.10-plugins-good 0.10.24-1 > >> You mean your malfunctioning Nautilus doesn't use mime types? > > I would hope it does. ?On the other hand mime types probably don't have > anything to do with the package conflict in this case. ?They could be > an issue later if something doesn't work with gstreamer (as is often > the case). > >> It doesn't start at all, or it starts and doesn't parse and display >> directory contents. > > Probably depends how far dpkg can before running into conflicts. > >> Unmet dependencies are not quite the same as not being installed >> properly. That message says in effect, it should work when you meet >> those dependencies. How you meet them is up to you. > > In the interest of future upgrades, meeting them through apt would make > sense. ?Sure equivs can be used to convince apt that you have done so, > but isn't usually the first choice. > >> Each of those packages that apt cannot handle at this time may be >> compiled and installed one at a time to meet those unmet dependencies. > > It would be more productive to get the debian source package and fixing > the control file to have the missing 'Replaces' that the bug report says > it needs. ?Still would need compiling, but much less messy and easier > to maintain. ?Meeting the dependancy of the code is one thing, but > meeting the dependancies of the packaging system is another. > >> Personally, I have never been able to keep a gnome system which deals >> with video and audio streaming without having to hand bomb something >> into the configuration. > > Gnome and gstreamer certainly can be hassle. ?I think I usually end up > using mplayer in the end after giving up on whatever gnome has tried > to do. MPlayer is an awesome application for the desktop, but on the system I use for streaming, it was an amazingly simple setup. All I did was install a default Gnome desktop on Debian Unstable and then installed XBMC. That machine can then stream from my WD MyBook, and it does a better job in most ways than the Playstation does. It plays almost any format, many more than any proprietary device, and it even allows for using a remote, though a wireless keyboard and mouse is cool too. Outside of XBMC, all I need is Google Chrome which lets me stream video from any site I can think of, like CBC, Democracy Now, Al Jazeera, YouTube, etc. I can't think of anything else I would need. There might be some esoteric formats I cannot handle with a default setup like this, but I haven't run into any yet. Actually, I don't think I can play BBC stuff because they have some weird proprietary player, but I download all my BBC documentaries from eztv.it anyway. The only real limitation I run into is the idiotic Canadian ban on streaming other country's TV shows, like from Comedy Central and so on. -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 21:02:20 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 17:02:20 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142047.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101172727.GF30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111101210220.GG30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 01:46:44PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > That one is in Debian Multimedia. However, not it's asking for: > > libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 (>= 0.10.33) http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gst-plugins-base0.10/libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0_0.10.35-1_amd64.deb Isn't that it? > but I can't find that in either the debian repo you linked to or > Debian Multimedia. Well I found it in debian main. What an awful long filename. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 21:04:26 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 17:04:26 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142047.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101172727.GF30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111101210426.GH30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 02:45:48PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > I forgot I only needed to get the gstreamer stuff fixed, then run > apt-get -f install. Now it worked. Damn, apt really is a miracle if it > can untangle that mess. Thanks Lennart!! Yay! Yeah all it really needed was the gstreamer file rearangement untangled (which dpkg would have done if the package maintainer had correctly tagged the packages). 'apt-get -f install' really is quite useful. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 21:13:49 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 17:13:49 -0400 Subject: SILC Message-ID: <20111101211349.GA24118@watson-wilson.ca> Greetings, Does anyone have any experience with SILC that they'd like to share. http://silcnet.org/general/ -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 21:36:13 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 17:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: electrons crossing national borders [was Re: Debian: Broken packages, bug] In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142835.GB30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Thomas Milne | The only real limitation I run into is the idiotic Canadian ban on | streaming other country's TV shows, like from Comedy Central and so | on. It's actually a Comedy Central ban on Canada, not a Canadian ban on Comedy Central. It's not actually idiotic: Comedy Central only has US licenses for the content it broadcasts and webcasts. Other boradcasters have licenses for Canadian distribution. I'd call it inconvenient. BTW, things may get even more inconvenient after the new copyright act is passed. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 21:59:37 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 17:59:37 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142835.GB30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > The only real limitation I run into is the idiotic Canadian ban on > streaming other country's TV shows, like from Comedy Central and so > on. The cause of this isn't any "idiotic ban," but rather the matter of copyright rights. Comedy Central sold rights to various of their programs to The Comedy Network, and, as part of the agreement, agreed not to broadcast the material directly to Canada. The law is an indirect operator here. It's not that the CRTC won't let Comedy Central do anything, rather, it's that if they *did* broadcast to us, they'd be violating contracts they signed with The Comedy Network. It may be disappointing to us as Canadian would-be-viewers. It's conceivably possible that Comedy Central has made foolish choices, though that is by no means obvious, particularly if they're getting paid decently by The Comedy Network. But it's more than just a stretch to characterize it as an "idiotic Canadian ban," when that's not likely to be correctively descriptive of what's going on, notably in the sense of being a "Canadian ban." -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 1 23:40:04 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 19:40:04 -0400 Subject: electrons crossing national borders [was Re: Debian: Broken packages, bug] In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142835.GB30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:36 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Thomas Milne > > | The only real limitation I run into is the idiotic Canadian ban on > | streaming other country's TV shows, like from Comedy Central and so > | on. > > It's actually a Comedy Central ban on Canada, not a Canadian ban on > Comedy Central. > > It's not actually idiotic: Comedy Central only has US licenses for the > content it broadcasts and webcasts. ?Other boradcasters have licenses > for Canadian distribution. Alright, alright, bad example! However, the content on many American sites _is_ blocked due to CanCon rules. That was the idea I was driving at. > I'd call it inconvenient. > > BTW, things may get even more inconvenient after the new copyright act > is passed. -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 00:19:15 2011 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:19:15 -0400 Subject: electrons crossing national borders [was Re: Debian: Broken packages, bug] In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142835.GB30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4EB08C83.80707@dinamis.com> On 11/01/2011 07:40 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Alright, alright, bad example! However, the content on many American > sites _is_ blocked due to CanCon rules. That was the idea I was > driving at. As far as I know, Canadian content rules only apply to radio and TV broadcasting, not the Internet. Blocked sites are due to licensing issues and the supposed lawlessness of Canada when it comes to copyright. The MPAA and RIAA want Canada to implement American style copyright legislation so they're the ones who push for the restrictions on streaming web content to Canadians. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 00:22:23 2011 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 20:22:23 -0400 Subject: Empty $_SESSION files??? Message-ID: <41de64b7e6e4fcc7edf3d25f06e6dcf2.squirrel@nray.ca> Hello all, My apache web server just dropped the ability to store a PHP $_SESSION cookie. All the files is /var/lib/php/sessions are empty. Any suggestions as to what would cause this and how to fix it? It appears to have occurred several hours after I last made any changes to the code. Thanks, Stephen ____________________ Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 00:31:57 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 20:31:57 -0400 Subject: Empty $_SESSION files??? In-Reply-To: <41de64b7e6e4fcc7edf3d25f06e6dcf2.squirrel-wtWqQT8woy8@public.gmane.org> References: <41de64b7e6e4fcc7edf3d25f06e6dcf2.squirrel@nray.ca> Message-ID: <20111102003157.GI30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 08:22:23PM -0400, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > My apache web server just dropped the ability to store a PHP $_SESSION > cookie. > All the files is /var/lib/php/sessions are empty. > > Any suggestions as to what would cause this and how to fix it? > It appears to have occurred several hours after I last made any changes to > the code. Any chance the permissions on the /var/lib/php/sessions got changed? Maybe a change to the global php config or a php config in a .htblah file (I forget what apache calls them). It has been years since I dealt with sessions in php though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 00:41:19 2011 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 20:41:19 -0400 Subject: Empty $_SESSION files??? In-Reply-To: <20111102003157.GI30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <41de64b7e6e4fcc7edf3d25f06e6dcf2.squirrel@nray.ca> <20111102003157.GI30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Len, They look OK to me. Not that I know for sure. The directory is set to root:apache and all the files in the directory are apache:apache If the permissions were wrong would I still get a file? The session creates a file it just has no content. It's zero bytes. The last session file with content is time-stamped at 7:46pm tonight? Stephen > On Tue, Nov 01, 2011 at 08:22:23PM -0400, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: >> My apache web server just dropped the ability to store a PHP $_SESSION >> cookie. >> All the files is /var/lib/php/sessions are empty. >> >> Any suggestions as to what would cause this and how to fix it? >> It appears to have occurred several hours after I last made any changes >> to >> the code. > > Any chance the permissions on the /var/lib/php/sessions got changed? > > Maybe a change to the global php config or a php config in a .htblah file > (I forget what apache calls them). > > It has been years since I dealt with sessions in php though. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > ____________________ Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 06:54:27 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 02:54:27 -0400 Subject: Empty $_SESSION files??? In-Reply-To: <41de64b7e6e4fcc7edf3d25f06e6dcf2.squirrel-wtWqQT8woy8@public.gmane.org> References: <41de64b7e6e4fcc7edf3d25f06e6dcf2.squirrel@nray.ca> Message-ID: <4EB0E923.5090206@ve3syb.ca> On 11-11-01 08:22 PM, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > My apache web server just dropped the ability to store a PHP $_SESSION > cookie. > All the files is /var/lib/php/sessions are empty. Check /etc/php5/apache2/php.ini and see if you have: session.save_handler =files or perhaps you have: session.use_only_cookies = 1 Scroll a bit further down and see what path is set for saving session data. Check permissions on the specified directory. Make sure it is writable by the webserver. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 10:24:30 2011 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 06:24:30 -0400 Subject: Empty $_SESSION files??? In-Reply-To: <4EB0E923.5090206-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <41de64b7e6e4fcc7edf3d25f06e6dcf2.squirrel@nray.ca> <4EB0E923.5090206@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <796dde08c9f78c018893cd37feff5248.squirrel@nray.ca> Kevin, Thanks for the suggestions. The php.ini file is configured as you suggest: session.save_handler =files session.use_only_cookies = 1 The privileges on the specified path are set to 770 for root:apache If it helps I'm using PHP 5.3.6 and apache2 on CentOS 5.6 stephen > On 11-11-01 08:22 PM, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: >> My apache web server just dropped the ability to store a PHP $_SESSION >> cookie. >> All the files is /var/lib/php/sessions are empty. > > Check /etc/php5/apache2/php.ini and see if you have: > session.save_handler =files > or perhaps you have: > session.use_only_cookies = 1 > > Scroll a bit further down and see what path is set for saving session > data. > Check permissions on the specified directory. Make sure it is writable by > the webserver. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > ____________________ Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 11:09:00 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 07:09:00 -0400 Subject: gnome 3 desktop annoyance fixed: showing date In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EB124CC.9060300@gmail.com> On 11-11-01 11:48 , D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > $ gsettings set org.gnome.shell.clock show-date true Oh boy; of all the things to copy from OS X, the idea of the 'defaults' command isn't a great one. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 11:48:02 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 07:48:02 -0400 Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much In-Reply-To: <20111101171939.GE30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4EACE508.9050005@gmail.com> <20111031162349.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > worse off (I am not sure loosing udev after booting is really that huge > a deal, but could be annoying). That's where I'm stuck on this. Unless you have a solid set of rules, devices re polled by udev seem to be reordered in assignment. That's a major complaint I see in the various blog's about udev. Udev diagnostic tools have improved but there are still some gaps and people still encounter problems. > > So the reason the kill script isn't breaking things is that udev is > ignoring it for being incompatible with the other requests for the > runlevel. ?It is however also not helping anything and could be confusing. Every time something new, like LSB init is introduced, there is a learning curve. I see this as a transitional state, not quite right, (according to convention) not quite wrong (according to function). I believe there is more that one right way to do things in Linux. Whether or not the chosen fix conforms with theory is demonstrated over time, assuming the machine doesn't grind to a halt when the fix (kludge) is applied. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 12:08:55 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 08:08:55 -0400 Subject: Debian: Broken packages, bug In-Reply-To: References: <20111101142835.GB30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > Aptitude is great, but it's not a panacea for problems. It's just >> another tool in the toolbox. >> > > This I totally disagree with. I used to hack away at solving problems, > building things from source and hand-editing config files, and so on. Twelve or so years ago CLUE chose Debian to pair down for use on 486's, which were to be given out to low income people, precisely because of aptitude. We got computers donated to agencies and some low income individuals. Like FreeGeek does now. I still support people using much older equipment and who come from the MS world with little troubleshooting experience even on the platform they are familiar with. When what happend to you, happens to them I generally but not always have to backport stuff. Assistive technologies notwithstanding, the demands of video and audio streaming have always been troublesome. I help people to use Linux, in part to keep legacy equipment from the landfill. > I have been running Debian for a few years now, and I have never had > to build anything from source. Debian Unstable is as up to date as I > could possibly want, and apt never fails, ever. The only reason I had > a problem this time was I ignored something apt was telling me that > was clearly going to be a problem, or at least had a high risk of > becoming one. Otherwise, this system has been through update after > update, even dist upgrades, and never once had a problem. I find their repository catalogue a little cumbersome. I work on lots of different hardware configurations and I invariably wind up downloading stuff and using dpkg to install and in the most severe cases, make from source. Most recently with the adoption of pulse audio into Debian, backporting alsa with some legacy sound and video and capture cards. > I no longer have the time to spend on making my system some highly > customized and optimized thing, I just want it to work. I really can't > imagine using anything else but Debian. With due respect to all the > very knowledgeable RH, Ubuntu, and Gentoo users, I don't understand > the reasoning behind using any other distribution, other than just > taste I guess. Different features and different bugs. In Mini-Deb we used aptitude to install rpm's, go figure that. > -- > Thomas Milne > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 13:04:48 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:04:48 -0400 Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive In-Reply-To: References: <8CE66D72C86FE2F-278C-1304B7@webmail-m150.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Michael Hill wrote: > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:59 PM, zensunnit wrote: > >> unsubscribe > > It's not possible to unsubscribe from this thread, or everyone would > want to do it. Yes it is. Use a simple filter Create a FilterHide filter options Choose search criteria Specify the criteria you'd like to use for determining what to do with a message as it arrives. Use "Test Search" to see which messages would have been filtered using these criteria. Messages in Spam and Trash will not be searched. From:rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org To:tlug.ss.org Subject: Has the words: Doesn't have: Has attachment Show current filtersCancelTest SearchNext Step ? Choose action - Now, select the action you'd like to take on messages that match the criteria you specified. When a message arrives that matches the search: from:(rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) to:(tlug.ss.org), do the following: Skip the Inbox (Archive it) Mark as read Star it Apply the label: Forward it You have no verified forwarding addresses.Manage your forwarding addresses X Delete it (See its easy) Never send it to Spam Always mark it as important Never mark it as important Show current filters Cancel? BackCreate Filter > > Mike > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 15:23:57 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 11:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: References: <4EACE508.9050005@gmail.com> <20111031162349.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Russell Reiter | | > worse off (I am not sure loosing udev after booting is really that huge | > a deal, but could be annoying). | | That's where I'm stuck on this. Unless you have a solid set of rules, | devices re polled by udev seem to be reordered in assignment. That's a | major complaint I see in the various blog's about udev. Udev | diagnostic tools have improved but there are still some gaps and | people still encounter problems. What do you mean by "devices re polled by udev seem to be reordered in assignment"? Are you talking about /dev entries for similar devices having unstable names? For example, /dev/sda and /dev/sdb might switch between devices in different boots? Or eth0 vs eth1? Or something else? Name instability seems to be an outcome of doing things in parallel (at least at at abstract level). The kernel folks think that this is a win (speed, elegance, and moving things out of the kernel, if I remember correctly). There are many workarounds. In the case of disks, /etc/fstab entries should now use UUIDs (or LABELs) to refer to partitions. Nicer in a lot of ways. In the case of TV tuner cards (my problem on my MythTV boxes), there are interesting entries in /dev that allow you to address them by PCI slot. Do "ls -d /dev/*/by-*" to see how you can get at particular devices by UUID or LABEL or PCI slot or whatever. In the case of ethernet interfaces (not in /dev, thanks to BSD brain damage 30 years ago), you can discriminate by way of MAC address, but I don't think that that is satisfactory since a card's MAC addresses can be changed. I've not yet bumped hard into this problem so I haven't searched for a better technique. I guess if the hardware is different you could discriminate via PCI device IDs. Any better solutions? I sure want my router to know very early in the boot sequence which interfaces are inward facing and which are outward facing. Heck, I'm so behind the times I still use ifconfig etc. that are long obsolete. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 16:22:58 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:22:58 -0700 Subject: Graphical bootloader /w mouse support Message-ID: Hey all, I have a decent amount of experience configuring GRUB(2)/LILO as bootloaders, but seem to remember that there were bootloader(s) out there with mouse support. Perhaps my memory is rusty, but would anyone happen to know of any such bootloaders, and where I could find documentation on them? Thanks, Tyler -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 16:27:23 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:27:23 -0700 Subject: Mouse not working until second login Message-ID: I'm thinking that this is somewhat unrelated to the previous uDev/keyboard issues that have been discussed recently, but it brought to mind a problem I've been having with one of my desktops. When the ubuntu desktop first boots up and I log in (or it auto-logs-in if I leave it), the mouse is initially a little apathetic. Sometimes I can click icons, sometimes it doesn't work. Opening firefox is decided finicky in regards to mouse/keyboard input in dialogs etc. If I log out, then log in again at the GDM login screen (same user or otherwise), everything works just fine after that. Since there shouldn't be any udev restarts across X sessions, I don't think it's related to the previously mentioned keyboard problems, but it has been an irritation on this one desktop for awhile... Any ideas? -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA "Computers don't make mistakes. They can, however, execute those provided to them very quickly" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 16:37:00 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 12:37:00 -0400 Subject: Graphical bootloader /w mouse support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hey all, > > I have a decent amount of experience configuring GRUB(2)/LILO as > bootloaders, but seem to remember that there were bootloader(s) out > there with mouse support. > Perhaps my memory is rusty, but would anyone happen to know of any > such bootloaders, and where I could find documentation on them? There's an old project that I remember, called XOSL but it's more of an extension than a real bootloader. It doesn't appear to have been worked on for about 10 years, and requires DOS and a FAT partition. Here's some screenshots: If you're feeling ambitious, you could always write one starting with something like and adding in a mouse driver derived from I'd be interested in hearing about other alternatives as well. ;-) -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 18:39:19 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:39:19 -0400 Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much In-Reply-To: References: <20111031162349.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111102183919.GJ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 02, 2011 at 07:48:02AM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: > That's where I'm stuck on this. Unless you have a solid set of rules, > devices re polled by udev seem to be reordered in assignment. That's a > major complaint I see in the various blog's about udev. Udev > diagnostic tools have improved but there are still some gaps and > people still encounter problems. Actually the reordering has always been a problem with linux since forever. udev in fact is probably the best thing ever at solving it since you can tell it what to name thigns based on characteristics of the device. It used to be quite commen that if you had two disk controllers, the load order could be completely random and hence the names could swap. Go from one kernel version to another and the order PCI devices got setup changed. Suddenly eth0 and eth1 swap for no apparent reason. udev nicely lets you say 'this mac addres is eth0, this other one is eth1'. But yes it still needs rules to do it, but at least it can. > Every time something new, like LSB init is introduced, there is a > learning curve. Well insserv (as Debian uses) is just one init system that can use the dependancy info in the LSB headers. It is by no means the only one that could be used and others might work differently. I don't know of any that do behave particularly differently though since parallel init based on dependancies do seem to be the popular style now. > I see this as a transitional state, not quite right, (according to > convention) not quite wrong (according to function). I believe there > is more that one right way to do things in Linux. Whether or not the > chosen fix conforms with theory is demonstrated over time, assuming > the machine doesn't grind to a halt when the fix (kludge) is applied. Well it seems the best fix is to get the system to the same state as a freshly installed one would be. In the case of udev that means only one symlinked script for starting it in rcS.d. It should not be anywhere else and with insserv won't do anything anyhow anywhere else. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 18:41:37 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 14:41:37 -0400 Subject: Graphical bootloader /w mouse support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111102184137.GK30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 02, 2011 at 09:22:58AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I have a decent amount of experience configuring GRUB(2)/LILO as > bootloaders, but seem to remember that there were bootloader(s) out > there with mouse support. > Perhaps my memory is rusty, but would anyone happen to know of any > such bootloaders, and where I could find documentation on them? Well grub2 has some usb support. Could it be made to use a mouse? Perhaps, but whyever would you want to? The keyboard is a much faster and more accurate selection device. Of course before USB, there were way too many different mouse protocols to deal with. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 19:28:05 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 15:28:05 -0400 Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: References: <4EACE508.9050005@gmail.com> <20111031162349.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > What do you mean by "devices re polled by udev seem to be reordered in > assignment"? > > Are you talking about /dev entries for similar devices having unstable > names? ?For example, /dev/sda and /dev/sdb might switch between > devices in different boots? ?Or eth0 vs eth1? ?Or something else? Sorry for the confusion. That's it mostly, although I have helped people deal with some weird issues in the last several months, as different people upgrade their distributions. In one case the screen would flicker and the keyboard would become unresponsive. Ten or so seconds later it would flicker again and the keyboard would come back. No effect on the usb mouse. It was however a PS2 keyboard. That one was hard to reproduce consistently on boot. I think it was a gdm bug but I'm not sure. I was looking into it but it seems to have been solved by an update. The joy of automation, also the pain. I'd kind of liked to know what's was going on. > > Name instability seems to be an outcome of doing things in parallel (at > least at at abstract level). ?The kernel folks think that this is a win > (speed, elegance, and moving things out of the kernel, if I remember > correctly). > > There are many workarounds. > > In the case of disks, /etc/fstab entries should now use UUIDs (or LABELs) > to refer to partitions. ?Nicer in a lot of ways. > > In the case of TV tuner cards (my problem on my MythTV boxes), > there are interesting entries in /dev that allow you to address them > by PCI slot. > > Do "ls -d /dev/*/by-*" to see how you can get at particular devices by > UUID or LABEL or PCI slot or whatever. Thanks that's very helpful. I had just dug out my ten year old copy of Unix Power Tools for inspiration. I'm going to try to use udev to tame Xsane after an update. That update broke a plugdev group. For now I'm using a sudo script to find the scanner and chmod a+w for Xsane. It's work that udev can handle but I needed a quik fix to send to the user. The script seems to work, for now. > > In the case of ethernet interfaces (not in /dev, thanks to BSD brain > damage 30 years ago), you can discriminate by way of MAC address, but > I don't think that that is satisfactory since a card's MAC addresses > can be changed. ?I've not yet bumped hard into this problem so I Could you elaborate a little more on BSD brain damage. Also, I assumed MAC address's were stored on prom's not eproms and so were permanently assigned by the manufacturer. > haven't searched for a better technique. ?I guess if the hardware is > different you could discriminate via PCI device IDs. ?Any better > solutions? ?I sure want my router to know very early in the boot > sequence which interfaces are inward facing and which are outward > facing. ?Heck, I'm so behind the times I still use ifconfig etc. that > are long obsolete. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 19:31:42 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 15:31:42 -0400 Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much In-Reply-To: <20111102183919.GJ30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111031162349.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111102183919.GJ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > Well it seems the best fix is to get the system to the same state as a > freshly installed one would be. ?In the case of udev that means only one > symlinked script for starting it in rcS.d. ?It should not be anywhere > else and with insserv won't do anything anyhow anywhere else. > I'll try deleting the script next Sunday and see what happens. > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 19:36:13 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 15:36:13 -0400 Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much In-Reply-To: References: <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111102183919.GJ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111102193613.GL30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 02, 2011 at 03:31:42PM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: > I'll try deleting the script next Sunday and see what happens. Well from playing with creating the script and renaming it, nothing what so ever will happen. Well you will free an inode. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 19:47:01 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 15:47:01 -0400 Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much In-Reply-To: <20111102193613.GL30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111102183919.GJ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111102193613.GL30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 02, 2011 at 03:31:42PM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: >> I'll try deleting the script next Sunday and see what happens. > > Well from playing with creating the script and renaming it, nothing what > so ever will happen. ?Well you will free an inode. :) I like your sense of humor. I'm going to try it anyway. Can use all the inodes I can get. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 2 20:13:43 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 16:13:43 -0400 Subject: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much In-Reply-To: References: <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111102183919.GJ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111102193613.GL30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111102201343.GM30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 02, 2011 at 03:47:01PM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: > I like your sense of humor. > > I'm going to try it anyway. Can use all the inodes I can get. Oh and since it is a symlink you will gain one block as well. A whole 4k (probably). And perhaps you save a microsecond of boot time since insserv won't have to look at the script and ignore it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 00:51:44 2011 From: slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 20:51:44 -0400 Subject: Mouse not working until second login In-Reply-To: (Tyler Aviss's message of "Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:27:23 -0700") References: Message-ID: <857h3im3if.fsf@azurservers.com> Tyler Aviss a ?crit profondement: | I'm thinking that this is somewhat unrelated to the previous | uDev/keyboard issues that have been discussed recently, but it brought | to mind a problem I've been having with one of my desktops. > | When the ubuntu desktop first boots up and I log in (or it | auto-logs-in if I leave it), the mouse is initially a little | apathetic. Sometimes I can click icons, sometimes it doesn't work. | Opening firefox is decided finicky in regards to mouse/keyboard input | in dialogs etc. > | If I log out, then log in again at the GDM login screen (same user or | otherwise), everything works just fine after that. Since there | shouldn't be any udev restarts across X sessions, I don't think it's | related to the previously mentioned keyboard problems, but it has been | an irritation on this one desktop for awhile... > > | Any ideas? My mouse if finicky too - It's happened on every box I've had so in /etc/rc.d/rc.local put: killall gpm /usr/sbin/gpm -R msc -m /dev/mouse -t imps2 -S "" Drop the -S "" if you don't want any fancy reboots or other slectable effects. If you hold leftbutton down and click the rightbutton three times you can reboot - it's better than hitting the power switch when all else fails. You might want to turn the above into a script if you habitually encounter recalcitrant rodents. -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 02:15:07 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 22:15:07 -0400 Subject: Graphical bootloader /w mouse support In-Reply-To: <20111102184137.GK30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111102184137.GK30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4EB1F92B.8030804@gmail.com> On 11-11-02 14:41 , Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Could it be made to use a mouse? Perhaps, but whyever would you want to? > The keyboard is a much faster and more accurate selection device. Bit ableist there, eh, Lennart? Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 02:52:05 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 22:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: References: <4EACE508.9050005@gmail.com> <20111031162349.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Russell Reiter | I strongly advocate selective snipping, but I do recommend including attribution so that the reader can tell whose voice they are reading. | > In the case of ethernet interfaces (not in /dev, thanks to BSD brain | > damage 30 years ago), you can discriminate by way of MAC address, but | > I don't think that that is satisfactory since a card's MAC addresses | > can be changed. ?I've not yet bumped hard into this problem so I | | Could you elaborate a little more on BSD brain damage. Also, I assumed | MAC address's were stored on prom's not eproms and so were permanently | assigned by the manufacturer. I guess I should have said Berkeley CSRG brain damage -- those were the people that designed the socket interface, for BSD (Berkeley Software Distribution). The sensible way of addressing devices, including networking interfaces, would have been through inodes named in /dev. See how Plan 9 does it -- eg. /net/ether0. Why invent a new name resolution mechanism? And a whole new API to deal with things using those names. The socket stuff is a lot of warts on the side of UNIX. Very useful warts, I admit. Old time UNIX purists don't like BSD and many of the extensions it added. They don't have the elegance of 7th Edition UNIX or Plan 9. But they did add functionality that is very important. BSD was the first UNIX with support for paging, for example. (I've been using UNIX heavily since 1975, so when I say old time, I mean it in that scale.) All of this is only of historic interest now. BSD won a long long time ago. It is good enough. I read Plan 9's marketplace failure as demonstrating that doing things right isn't enough of a win for folks to change. From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 03:09:36 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 23:09:36 -0400 Subject: SILC In-Reply-To: <20111101211349.GA24118-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111101211349.GA24118@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4EB205F0.2030508@utoronto.ca> On 01/11/11 05:13 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > Greetings, > > Does anyone have any experience with SILC that they'd like to share. > http://silcnet.org/general/ I used to run a silc server that was linked to a few others. It was a good idea in theory I suppose, but client support wasn't good, the configuration is a complete pain, and not many people outside a group of friends could use it. I'd suggest IRC with SSL, or better still, XMPP, since an XMPP server can act as a gateway to IRC. I guess it all depends on what you want SILC to do that other more common systems don't. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 03:41:56 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 23:41:56 -0400 Subject: Empty $_SESSION files??? In-Reply-To: <796dde08c9f78c018893cd37feff5248.squirrel-wtWqQT8woy8@public.gmane.org> References: <41de64b7e6e4fcc7edf3d25f06e6dcf2.squirrel@nray.ca> <4EB0E923.5090206@ve3syb.ca> <796dde08c9f78c018893cd37feff5248.squirrel@nray.ca> Message-ID: <4EB20D84.6010005@ve3syb.ca> On 11-11-02 06:24 AM, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > Thanks for the suggestions. The php.ini file is configured as you suggest: > session.save_handler =files > session.use_only_cookies = 1 > > The privileges on the specified path are set to 770 for root:apache > > If it helps I'm using PHP 5.3.6 and apache2 on CentOS 5.6 I have my session.save_path directory set to 1733 with owner of apache.apache. Are you running with SElinux enabled and rules that might prevent Apache from writing to the directory you have specified? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 12:17:50 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 08:17:50 -0400 Subject: SILC In-Reply-To: <4EB205F0.2030508-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20111101211349.GA24118@watson-wilson.ca> <4EB205F0.2030508@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20111103121750.GA28719@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Nov 02, 2011 at 11:09:36PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >I guess it all depends on what you want SILC to do that other more >common systems don't. The security aspect is what attracted me. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 13:14:46 2011 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 09:14:46 -0400 Subject: Empty $_SESSION files??? In-Reply-To: <4EB20D84.6010005-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <41de64b7e6e4fcc7edf3d25f06e6dcf2.squirrel@nray.ca> <4EB0E923.5090206@ve3syb.ca> <796dde08c9f78c018893cd37feff5248.squirrel@nray.ca> <4EB20D84.6010005@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <99786c83ca7f5dce646662e11021c56d.squirrel@nray.ca> Kevin, Thanks for your suggestions. Looks like this line of reasoning was taking us in the wrong direction. Turns out that the apache log files were out of control and getting so large they actually filled the HDD. No available disk space means the session files have no content. (Doh!) Stephen > On 11-11-02 06:24 AM, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: >> Thanks for the suggestions. The php.ini file is configured as you >> suggest: >> session.save_handler =files >> session.use_only_cookies = 1 >> >> The privileges on the specified path are set to 770 for root:apache >> >> If it helps I'm using PHP 5.3.6 and apache2 on CentOS 5.6 > > I have my session.save_path directory set to 1733 with owner of > apache.apache. Are you running with SElinux enabled and rules that might > prevent Apache from writing to the directory you have specified? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > ____________________ Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 13:16:21 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 09:16:21 -0400 Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: References: <4EACE508.9050005@gmail.com> <20111031162349.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:52 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Russell Reiter > > | > > I strongly advocate selective snipping, but I do recommend including > attribution so that the reader can tell whose voice they are reading. Thanks, I forgot that. Sometimes I think I've forgotten too much appropriate stuff and remember too much inappropriate stuff. > > > | > In the case of ethernet interfaces (not in /dev, thanks to BSD brain > | > damage 30 years ago), you can discriminate by way of MAC address, but > | > I don't think that that is satisfactory since a card's MAC addresses > | > can be changed. ?I've not yet bumped hard into this problem so I > | > | Could you elaborate a little more on BSD brain damage. Also, I assumed > | MAC address's were stored on prom's not eproms and so were permanently > | assigned by the manufacturer. > > I guess I should have said Berkeley CSRG brain damage -- those were > the people that designed the socket interface, for BSD (Berkeley > Software Distribution). > > The sensible way of addressing devices, including networking > interfaces, would have been through inodes named in /dev. ?See how > Plan 9 does it -- eg. /net/ether0. ?Why invent a new name resolution > mechanism? ?And a whole new API to deal with things using those names. > > The socket stuff is a lot of warts on the side of UNIX. ?Very useful > warts, I admit. Not trying to sound trite here. But the way I see it is, if someone spend's a great deal of time learning how to create a programming interface, that's what they want to do, start creating applications via that interface. If your only tool is a hammer, pretty soon everything starts to look like a nail. In terms of capacity planning, keeping an architecture, soft or hard, small and closed enough for current capacity while still preserving future development forking, seems to me to be almost political and hardly scientific. In fact it is the dynamic relationships between the various people on the committee's planning for development, which charts that course of development. There are a number of people on this list who discuss those political aspects of Linux in a great deal of depth. For me I'm grateful that IBM chose not to completely close off it's complex architecture while those manufacturing using reduced architecture sets did close theirs, by way of fee simple. You have to pay to play. > > Old time UNIX purists don't like BSD and many of the extensions it > added. ?They don't have the elegance of 7th Edition UNIX or Plan 9. > But they did add functionality that is very important. ?BSD was the > first UNIX with support for paging, for example. ?(I've been using > UNIX heavily since 1975, so when I say old time, I mean it in that > scale.) I didn't even know there was a Unix until well after 1992. That was when I bought the assembly language rom cart for the TRS-80 my girlfriends dad had bought for her. I tried to teach myself 6808 assembly language. Boy did that make my head hurt. I never did do what I was intending to do. Now, these years later, I know I was trying to write an API. > > All of this is only of historic interest now. ?BSD won a long long > time ago. ?It is good enough. ?I read Plan 9's marketplace failure as > demonstrating that doing things right isn't enough of a win for folks > to change. I like history it helps to plan for the future. How did Minix fit into things? Was it a precursor for Plan 9? Isn't that what Linus Torvalds was working from when he started writing the drivers for intel chipsets? I understand that Minix was developed, maybe not entirely but at least in part here in Toronto at UofT. Thanks I appreciate your comments. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 15:31:05 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:31:05 -0400 Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: References: <4EACE508.9050005@gmail.com> <20111031162349.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:52 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> All of this is only of historic interest now. ?BSD won a long long >> time ago. ?It is good enough. ?I read Plan 9's marketplace failure as >> demonstrating that doing things right isn't enough of a win for folks >> to change. > > I like history it helps to plan for the future. > > How did Minix fit into things? Was it a precursor for Plan 9? Isn't > that what Linus Torvalds was working from when he started writing the > drivers for intel chipsets? > > I understand that Minix was developed, maybe not entirely but at least > in part here in Toronto at UofT. At UofT? Hardly. It was developed at Vrije Universiteit by Andrew Tanembaum. No material Toronto connections. There's a connection with Linux, in that Linus Torvalds created Linux as something of a followup to Minix, as he was keen on hacking on 80386 stuff, and Tanembaum wasn't keen on that kind of non-portability. Plan 9 comes from a quite completely different direction; it was created at Bell Labs as a successor to UNIX. Linux has adopted a few bits of Plan 9, but it's of a radically different "lineage;" no common 'genetic material.' -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 15:36:25 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:36:25 -0400 Subject: Mouse not working until second login In-Reply-To: <857h3im3if.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <857h3im3if.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <20111103153625.GN30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 02, 2011 at 08:51:44PM -0400, Slack Rat wrote: > My mouse if finicky too - It's happened on every box I've had so in > /etc/rc.d/rc.local put: Would probably be /etc/rc.local on ubuntu. > killall gpm > /usr/sbin/gpm -R msc -m /dev/mouse -t imps2 -S "" Wouldn't /etc/init.d/gpm restart do that same thing except actually use the config you have already done on the system? This method seems clumsy. Of course on most systems these days X uses /dev/input/mice and not GPM repeater mode, so I am not sure why restarting gpm would make a difference. Doesn't mean it won't though (it might still reset the mouse somehow). > Drop the -S "" if you don't want any fancy reboots or other slectable > effects. If you hold leftbutton down and click the rightbutton three > times you can reboot - it's better than hitting the power switch when > all else fails. What's wrong with the acpi shutdown event the power button generates? Neat feature though. I don't think I have looked what new features gpm has added in years. > You might want to turn the above into a script if you habitually > encounter recalcitrant rodents. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 15:39:08 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:39:08 -0400 Subject: Graphical bootloader /w mouse support In-Reply-To: <4EB1F92B.8030804-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111102184137.GK30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4EB1F92B.8030804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111103153908.GO30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 02, 2011 at 10:15:07PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 11-11-02 14:41 , Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > >Could it be made to use a mouse? Perhaps, but whyever would you want to? > >The keyboard is a much faster and more accurate selection device. > > Bit ableist there, eh, Lennart? But it is. I would also think making an input device to do up/down/select would be simpler than one that can handle mouse movements. I still think the main reason it hasn't really been done is that there are too many mouse protocols and bugs to deal with and boot laoders are trying to be fairly lean code. They have limited space to install in usually. So wasting precious code space on something that is of no value what so ever and pretty hard to get to work right in all cases does seem rather pointless (no pun intended). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 15:46:00 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:46:00 -0400 Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: References: <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111103154600.GP30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 02, 2011 at 10:52:05PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I guess I should have said Berkeley CSRG brain damage -- those were > the people that designed the socket interface, for BSD (Berkeley > Software Distribution). > > The sensible way of addressing devices, including networking > interfaces, would have been through inodes named in /dev. See how > Plan 9 does it -- eg. /net/ether0. Why invent a new name resolution > mechanism? And a whole new API to deal with things using those names. > > The socket stuff is a lot of warts on the side of UNIX. Very useful > warts, I admit. Yeah out of all the devices, networking does seem to be the only one that doesn't use the 'everything is a file' concept. > Old time UNIX purists don't like BSD and many of the extensions it > added. They don't have the elegance of 7th Edition UNIX or Plan 9. > But they did add functionality that is very important. BSD was the > first UNIX with support for paging, for example. (I've been using > UNIX heavily since 1975, so when I say old time, I mean it in that > scale.) > > All of this is only of historic interest now. BSD won a long long > time ago. It is good enough. I read Plan 9's marketplace failure as > demonstrating that doing things right isn't enough of a win for folks > to change. Yeah BSD won, and now I would say it appears to have lost. I think Linux has won. In terms of supporting hardware and new features BSD is so far behind Linux these days. That wasn't the case in the past. You don't see commercial software vendors deal with BSD anymore (they used to), not they only deal with Linux out of the "non proprietary" unixes. Not sure that's the right way to seperate solaris/aix/hpux from linux/bsd. BSDi was pretty proprietary as far as i remember. Have you seen BSD on a cell phone? How about a 100000 CPU supercomputer cluster? a 2048 cpu single system image monster? Linux runs all of those, so I do think Linux won at this point in time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 15:47:34 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:47:34 -0400 Subject: Graphical bootloader /w mouse support In-Reply-To: <4EB1F92B.8030804-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111102184137.GK30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4EB1F92B.8030804@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:15 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 11-11-02 14:41 , Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> Could it be made to use a mouse? ?Perhaps, but whyever would you want to? >> The keyboard is a much faster and more accurate selection device. > > Bit ableist there, eh, Lennart? Hmm. More likely the converse. It takes rather more physical dexterity to control the position a mouse than it does to manipulate a switch. Even the severely disabled retain control over the soft palette, which can be used to control a switch. They'd be hard pressed to get a mouse to move. And the coding to recognize signals from the plethora of mice out there (have you looked at the page of different hardware options for xorg lately?) is rather larger than is needed for recognizing keyboard control. I'd not be surprised if adding mouse support would multiply the size of the code base for a bootloader, dwarfing the other code. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 15:54:06 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:54:06 -0400 Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: <20111103154600.GP30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111103154600.GP30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 02, 2011 at 10:52:05PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> The socket stuff is a lot of warts on the side of UNIX. ?Very useful >> warts, I admit. > > Yeah out of all the devices, networking does seem to be the only one > that doesn't use the 'everything is a file' concept. Graphics, too. http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/3/draw > Have you seen BSD on a cell phone? ?How about a 100000 CPU supercomputer > cluster? ?a 2048 cpu single system image monster? ?Linux runs all of > those, so I do think Linux won at this point in time. iPhones are BSD underneath, so that case isn't quite so obvious. Yes, proprietary, but it's still BSD... -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 15:55:23 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:55:23 -0400 Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: References: <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111103155523.GQ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 09:16:21AM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: > Not trying to sound trite here. But the way I see it is, if someone > spend's a great deal of time learning how to create a programming > interface, that's what they want to do, start creating applications > via that interface. If your only tool is a hammer, pretty soon > everything starts to look like a nail. Or you use the hammer to make more tools. > In terms of capacity planning, keeping an architecture, soft or hard, > small and closed enough for current capacity while still preserving > future development forking, seems to me to be almost political and > hardly scientific. In fact it is the dynamic relationships between the > various people on the committee's planning for development, which > charts that course of development. There are a number of people on > this list who discuss those political aspects of Linux in a great deal > of depth. I am impressed at how well Linus has managed this gigantic project, especially without any idea where it was supposed to be heading. > For me I'm grateful that IBM chose not to completely close off it's > complex architecture while those manufacturing using reduced > architecture sets did close theirs, by way of fee simple. You have to > pay to play. x86 PC or powerpc? > I didn't even know there was a Unix until well after 1992. That was > when I bought the assembly language rom cart for the TRS-80 my > girlfriends dad had bought for her. I tried to teach myself 6808 > assembly language. Boy did that make my head hurt. I never did do what > I was intending to do. Now, these years later, I know I was trying to > write an API. Well I dealt a bit with QNX on the Unisys Icons in the early 90s, which is certainly unix like as far as the user interface at the command line is concerned (but nothing like it internally). And when I saw a "Free unix like OS" on a BBS that had usenet feeds (SLS 1.03 specificly), I just had to try it. Many days at 2400 baud later... > I like history it helps to plan for the future. As long as you don't try to predict the future. > How did Minix fit into things? Was it a precursor for Plan 9? Isn't > that what Linus Torvalds was working from when he started writing the > drivers for intel chipsets? I believe he did start with minix and replace a piece at a time until he had replaced it all and had a basic working system, which he then added more features to. > I understand that Minix was developed, maybe not entirely but at least > in part here in Toronto at UofT. It's possible although I doubt it. It was mainly developed (at least originally) by Andrew S. Tanenbaum who is at Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam, so it seems unlikely. Now porting it to other architectures likely could have been done by various people in various places. > Thanks I appreciate your comments. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 15:55:23 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:55:23 -0400 Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: References: <4EACE508.9050005@gmail.com> <20111031162349.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031173656.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:31 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: >> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:52 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >>> All of this is only of historic interest now. ?BSD won a long long >>> time ago. ?It is good enough. ?I read Plan 9's marketplace failure as >>> demonstrating that doing things right isn't enough of a win for folks >>> to change. >> >> I like history it helps to plan for the future. >> >> How did Minix fit into things? Was it a precursor for Plan 9? Isn't >> that what Linus Torvalds was working from when he started writing the >> drivers for intel chipsets? >> >> I understand that Minix was developed, maybe not entirely but at least >> in part here in Toronto at UofT. > > At UofT? ?Hardly. > > It was developed at Vrije Universiteit by Andrew Tanembaum. ?No > material Toronto connections. I think I recall Rasmus Lernorf, or maybe somebody in the audience mentioning it when he was here talking about developing PHP while working at UofT a few years ago. I think he moved on to bell labs and tweaked PHP while he was there. This was the lecture in English. I skipped the GSU afterward as that was more likely to have been in Klingon. I skipped next years return lecture as well, as it was to have be held entirely in Klingon. > > There's a connection with Linux, in that Linus Torvalds created Linux > as something of a followup to Minix, as he was keen on hacking on > 80386 stuff, and Tanembaum wasn't keen on that kind of > non-portability. > > Plan 9 comes from a quite completely different direction; it was > created at Bell Labs as a successor to UNIX. ?Linux has adopted a few > bits of Plan 9, but it's of a radically different "lineage;" no common > 'genetic material.' > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 15:57:51 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:57:51 -0400 Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: References: <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111103155751.GR30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 11:55:23AM -0400, Russell Reiter wrote: > I think I recall Rasmus Lernorf, or maybe somebody in the audience > mentioning it when he was here talking about developing PHP while > working at UofT a few years ago. I think he moved on to bell labs and > tweaked PHP while he was there. This was the lecture in English. I > skipped the GSU afterward as that was more likely to have been in > Klingon. I skipped next years return lecture as well, as it was to > have be held entirely in Klingon. Well at least UofT has Stephen Cook. That counts for something in computer science. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 16:02:44 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 12:02:44 -0400 Subject: Graphical bootloader /w mouse support In-Reply-To: References: <20111102184137.GK30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4EB1F92B.8030804@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > > Hmm. ?More likely the converse. No. You can't gainsay the needs or preferences of others. There are devices which don't look anything like mice, but appear as such to the system. If someone needs to use one of these things, you can't discount that. Stewart -- http://scruss.com/blog/ - 73 de VA3PID -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 16:08:15 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 12:08:15 -0400 Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: References: <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111103154600.GP30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111103160815.GS30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 11:54:06AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > Graphics, too. > http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/3/draw True the graphics are not a file either. Maybe someone will fix that some day. > iPhones are BSD underneath, so that case isn't quite so obvious. Yes, > proprietary, but it's still BSD... They also run mach underneath that, so not even a traditional BSD. And they also have nextstep on top which rather changes the API. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 16:31:53 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 09:31:53 -0700 Subject: Graphical bootloader /w mouse support In-Reply-To: References: <20111102184137.GK30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4EB1F92B.8030804@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 10:15 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: >> On 11-11-02 14:41 , Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> >>> Could it be made to use a mouse? ?Perhaps, but whyever would you want to? >>> The keyboard is a much faster and more accurate selection device. >> >> Bit ableist there, eh, Lennart? > > Hmm. ?More likely the converse. > > It takes rather more physical dexterity to control the position a > mouse than it does to manipulate a switch. > > Even the severely disabled retain control over the soft palette, which > can be used to control a switch. ?They'd be hard pressed to get a > mouse to move. > > And the coding to recognize signals from the plethora of mice out > there (have you looked at the page of different hardware options for > xorg lately?) is rather larger than is needed for recognizing keyboard > control. ?I'd not be surprised if adding mouse support would multiply > the size of the code base for a bootloader, dwarfing the other code. > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > For staged bootloaders such as GRUB, this probably wouldn't be too big a deal as required common module(s) could be kept /boot/grub or whatever. Certainly one would *not* want to try loading code into the MBR for that sort of thing. Mainly, it was for the benefit of relatives that I've installed a dual-boot configuration for. When you start getting into a lot of OS's/kernels, a mouse might actually be a bit handy While looking this up, I did notice the "burg" project (a grub addon?) http://linux-software-news-tutorials.blogspot.com/2010/06/burgbeautify-your-bootloader.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVeVjb1aO68 Being able to click an icon and/or the select the appropriate kernel, etc might actually be quite nice with a bootloader like this. The clicking about with the keyboard seems a bit clunky in some cases. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 20:07:01 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:07:01 -0400 Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: References: <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111103200701.GA7070@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 11:31:05AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote > > It was developed at Vrije Universiteit by Andrew Tanembaum. No > material Toronto connections. > > There's a connection with Linux, in that Linus Torvalds created Linux > as something of a followup to Minix, as he was keen on hacking on > 80386 stuff, and Tanembaum wasn't keen on that kind of > non-portability. There were a few disagreements between Torvalds and Tanenbaum. Tanenbaum criticized the linux kernel for being too monolithic, while Torvalds thought Minix was stupid for blocking and being non-responsive whilst doing disk IO. It boiled down to different goals for different audiences. Torvalds wanted an OS that actually worked for everyday use, whilst Tanenbaum wanted a simple introductort "my first OS" that university students could understand. During the SCO fiasco Tannenbaum gave some more details. See http://www2.technobabble.com.au/article-78--0-0.html for Andy Tanenbaum's Notes on the 'Who wrote Linux' Kerfuffle. He had no resentment that Linux took the spotlight from Minix. If anything, he was glad to see an end to... > 200 e-mails a day (at a time when only the chosen few had e-mail at > all) saying things like: "I need pseudoterminals and I need them by > Friday." My answer was generally quick and to the point: "No." The > reason for my frequent "no" was that everyone was trying to turn > MINIX into a production-quality UNIX system and I didn't want it > to get so complicated that it would become useless for my purpose, > namely, teaching it to students. Remember that he was a full-time university professor, with a wife and child, who wrote Minix in the evenings after putting his kid to bed. He did not have enough time to support a commercial OS. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 20:22:01 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: udev reorders assignment [was Re: Solved Debian update - keyboard responsive, Lennart Sorrenson not so much] In-Reply-To: <20111103200701.GA7070-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111103200701.GA7070@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | There were a few disagreements between Torvalds and Tanenbaum. | Tanenbaum criticized the linux kernel for being too monolithic, while | Torvalds thought Minix was stupid for blocking and being non-responsive | whilst doing disk IO. Off of the top of my head: Minix used the BIOS calls for disk I/O. This was sensible since it meant it didn't have to have a large set of hard to write and maintain device drivers. But the BIOS isn't reentrant. So Minix had to block while doing disk I/O. Minix worked on Atari STs too. I never tried it but always intended to. Real UNIX was so much better. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 20:24:48 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: everything is a file [was Re: udev reorders assignment ...] In-Reply-To: <20111103160815.GS30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111031220342.GZ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111103154600.GP30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111103160815.GS30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | | On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 11:54:06AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: | > Graphics, too. | > http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/3/draw | | True the graphics are not a file either. Maybe someone will fix that | some day. Do you mean "someone will fix that IN LINUX some day."? Because the Plan 9 manpage link shows that it is already done that way in Plan 9. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 3 20:37:04 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 16:37:04 -0400 Subject: everything is a file [was Re: udev reorders assignment ...] In-Reply-To: References: <20111101164355.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111101171939.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111103154600.GP30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111103160815.GS30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111103203704.GT30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 04:24:48PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Do you mean "someone will fix that IN LINUX some day."? Because the > Plan 9 manpage link shows that it is already done that way in Plan 9. Well yes, of course that's what I meant. :) Besides what does plan 9 actually do that I would want? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 4 04:34:17 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 00:34:17 -0400 Subject: Empty $_SESSION files??? In-Reply-To: <99786c83ca7f5dce646662e11021c56d.squirrel-wtWqQT8woy8@public.gmane.org> References: <41de64b7e6e4fcc7edf3d25f06e6dcf2.squirrel@nray.ca> <4EB0E923.5090206@ve3syb.ca> <796dde08c9f78c018893cd37feff5248.squirrel@nray.ca> <4EB20D84.6010005@ve3syb.ca> <99786c83ca7f5dce646662e11021c56d.squirrel@nray.ca> Message-ID: <4EB36B49.2080308@ve3syb.ca> On 11-11-03 09:14 AM, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > Turns out that the apache log files were out of control and getting so > large they actually filled the HDD. You should set up logwatch so you can get daily e-mail reports with a summary of information from various system log files including information about your diskspace. It would allow you to see when the drives are getting full. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 4 17:54:19 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 13:54:19 -0400 Subject: S## and K## In-Reply-To: <20111031143936.GW30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4EACE508.9050005@gmail.com> <20111031143936.GW30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111104175419.GA3624@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 10:39:36AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 08:25:29AM +0200, Ori Idan wrote: > > As much as I remember, scripts prefix with K are executed as stop > > only when you exit a runlevel,, that means that in this case udev is > > killed when you exit the system (or switch runlevel) > > No, actually all scripts in a run level are executed when you enter > that runlevel. Most are executed as start scripts, some as stop. That means, it has to know previous runlevel. I was under the impression that K## runs on exit. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 4 17:58:47 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 13:58:47 -0400 Subject: S## and K## In-Reply-To: <20111104175419.GA3624-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4EACE508.9050005@gmail.com> <20111031143936.GW30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111104175419.GA3624@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20111104175847.GU30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 01:54:19PM -0400, William Park wrote: > That means, it has to know previous runlevel. I was under the > impression that K## runs on exit. No, S and K run when you enter a runlevel. It is the admin's job to take care of making transitions work. Init does know what runlevel it came from of course, but that really doesn't make any difference in what happens when you change runlevels. insserv and other modern dependancy based init systems do keep track of what was started already so they don't have to do it again in the new runlevel that asks for the same services. Even the old sysvinit seemd capable of doing that too at least in some implementations. I haven't looked into how it does it, since it works. After all if you want service foo running in runlevel 2 and 3, but not 4, having a kill in 2 and 3 would mean leaving 2 to go to 3 would stop the service, and then have to start it again. That's not practical so it doesn't work that way. Everything in a runlevel is what to do when going to that runlevel. Note how runlevel 0 (shutdown) and 6 (reboot) has lots of K## scripts. That's what stops things. There are very few K## scripts in any other runlevel. Mostly S## scripts. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 4 21:09:26 2011 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 17:09:26 -0400 Subject: Gmail Backup Message-ID: Hi all ... I have started to investigate different tools for creating a full backup of a Gmail account. Requirements include the ability to run in the console and be setup as a cron job on my home server. Also I want to synch in only *one* direction - Gmail->LocalFolder - (I don't want to misconfigure something and end up corrupting or wiping out my Gmail archive). This is strictly a backup that is stored locally and can be browsed in read-only mode. I plan to keep using the Gmail web interface. I configured my Gmail account for IMAP access and tried getmail - http://pyropus.ca/software/getmail/configuration.html - and after running it for the first time appears to do what I want with one exception: after all messages are downloaded to my local server they are all marked in my Gmail account as having been read. This is what the program's developer intended and has no plans to change - http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.mail.getmail.user/4081 ... Considering the way I handle my mail this is not a big deal to me but it would be a dealbreaker for a few other people I would help backup their own Gmail accounts. OfflineIMAP is another consideration ... but by default it appears to sync folders in both directions. Maybe that can be changed. I am curious ... Do other list members backup their Gmail accounts and what tools do you like to use? Thanks Daniel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 4 21:23:41 2011 From: cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Charles Philip Chan) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 17:23:41 -0400 Subject: Gmail Backup In-Reply-To: (Daniel Wayne Armstrong's message of "Fri, 4 Nov 2011 17:09:26 -0400") References: Message-ID: Daniel Wayne Armstrong writes: > OfflineIMAP is another consideration ... but by default it appears to > sync folders in both directions. Maybe that can be changed. Imapcopy: https://code.google.com/p/imapcopy/ Charles -- "Calling EMACS an editor is like calling the Earth a hunk of dirt." -- Chris DiBona on Dirt (Open Sources, 1999 O'Reilly and Associates) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 4 21:36:12 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 17:36:12 -0400 Subject: Gmail Backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Charles Philip Chan wrote: > Daniel Wayne Armstrong writes: > >> OfflineIMAP is another consideration ... but by default it appears to >> sync folders in both directions. Maybe that can be changed. > > Imapcopy: > > https://code.google.com/p/imapcopy/ Haven't used it, but you might also consider Imapcopy: http://home.arcor.de/armin.diehl/imapcopy/imapcopy.html The latter has a Debian package. An interesting question, I suppose, is which IMAP server one might prefer for this purpose. For backup purposes, I think I'd prefer an option that, by hook or by crook, compresses messages. A file-based IMAP that compresses files would be attractive. One that stows message bodies in big-ish columns in Postgres would take advantage of TOAST (which really is the best thing since sliced bread ;-)). http://developer.postgresql.org/pgdocs/postgres/storage-toast.html -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 5 01:40:43 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:40:43 -0400 Subject: Fedora 15 3D Accelerated Video Message-ID: <20111104214043.c4dae75c.hgibson@eol.ca> I have just installed Fedora 15 on my desktop, and my video 3D acceleration has shut off. This disables a number of things, including Gnome_3. If there was ever a good case against 3D accelerated user interfaces, this is it. The 3D video worked at first. Then, Gnome_3 stopped working. Then I installed FlightGear and I found the 3D video was not working. Then I tried Gnome_3 again, and after a very long wait, I got a message to the effect that it needed 3D accelerated video to work properly. I am searching my directories and Google for something that will work. Does anybody know how I can get into video configuration for Fedora_15? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 5 01:41:49 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:41:49 -0400 Subject: Fedora 15 3D Accelerated Video In-Reply-To: <20111104214043.c4dae75c.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20111104214043.c4dae75c.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20111105014149.GA2108@watson-wilson.ca> What video card are you using? -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 5 02:15:02 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 22:15:02 -0400 Subject: Fedora 15 3D Accelerated Video In-Reply-To: <20111105014149.GA2108-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111104214043.c4dae75c.hgibson@eol.ca> <20111105014149.GA2108@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20111104221502.ab693de0.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:41:49 -0400 Neil Watson wrote: > What video card are you using? I have an Asus P5GC-MS/1333 motherboard with the video built into it. It worked fine with FC12. It worked fine just after I installed Fedora_15. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 5 11:15:28 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 07:15:28 -0400 Subject: Fedora 15 3D Accelerated Video In-Reply-To: <20111104221502.ab693de0.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20111104214043.c4dae75c.hgibson@eol.ca> <20111105014149.GA2108@watson-wilson.ca> <20111104221502.ab693de0.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: You may have to disable Kernel Mode Setting, or XV or update the driver. Have a look at this, see if it helps. http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Intel_Graphics_Media_Accelerator_950 >From the site: Disabling KMS If KMS causes you problems, you can disable it and return to user mode setting (UMS) by booting with the nomodeset kernel boot option. Note that this is no longer an option starting with version 2.10 of the Intel Xorg driver as UMS support has been dropped. On 11/4/11, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:41:49 -0400 > Neil Watson wrote: > >> What video card are you using? > > I have an Asus P5GC-MS/1333 motherboard with the video built into it. > It worked fine with FC12. It worked fine just after I installed Fedora_15. > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 6 15:47:59 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 10:47:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora 15 3D Accelerated Video In-Reply-To: References: <20111104214043.c4dae75c.hgibson@eol.ca> <20111105014149.GA2108@watson-wilson.ca> <20111104221502.ab693de0.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: | From: Howard Gibson | I have just installed Fedora 15 on my desktop, and my video 3D | acceleration has shut off. This disables a number of things, | including Gnome_3. If there was ever a good case against 3D | accelerated user interfaces, this is it. I assume that you mean that it disables Gnome 3 desktop shell. Gnome 3 itself must still be going. Fedora 15 has a fallback shell for systems without 3D hardware support. Could you be more explicit about what you observe? What stopped working? What do you mean by "shut off" -- did your system freeze? Many people dislike the Gnome 3 shell and think that the fallback is better. I've been using the Gnome 3 shell and Fedora 15 for a couple of months and am not sure that it is a Good Thing. | The 3D video worked at first. What caused it to break? Was it applying updates? I guess I should refine the above question. If you knew what caused it to break, you'd fix it. What salient events preceded the breakage? Have you applied all the Fedora 15 updates (there are a lot, and they keep on coming)? I'm a firm believer in applying all distro-supplied updates (despite all the scars I've gotten from doing so). In what sense did it break? I infer that hardware acceleration stopped happening. I imagine that 3D still works through OpenGL software but is slow (but I don't know that). | Then, Gnome_3 stopped working. I presume that you mean that the Gnome 3 desktop shell stopped working. | Does anybody know how I can get into video configuration for | Fedora_15? I assume you mean one that uses 3D hardware acceleration. | TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns Your message didn't wrap text below 80 columns. | From: Howard Gibson | On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 21:41:49 -0400 | Neil Watson wrote: | | > What video card are you using? | | I have an Asus P5GC-MS/1333 motherboard with the video built into | it. It worked fine with FC12. It worked fine just after I | installed Fedora_15. You didn't actually answer the question. But you did provide enough information that one can google to find the answer: The Intel 945GC graphics memory controller hub(GMCH) () I think (but don't know for sure) that Intel GMA support is pretty solid now. It went through a soft patch a while ago. In general, Intel has been the best supported graphics hardware under Linux even though it is the weakest. | From: Russell Reiter | You may have to disable Kernel Mode Setting, or XV or update the | driver. Have a look at this, see if it helps. | | http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Intel_Graphics_Media_Accelerator_950 | | >From the site: | | Disabling KMS | | If KMS causes you problems, you can disable it and return to user mode | setting (UMS) by booting with the nomodeset kernel boot option. Note | that this is no longer an option starting with version 2.10 of the | Intel Xorg driver as UMS support has been dropped. I don't imagine that he is having trouble with KMS, but who knows. - KMS has settled down a bunch in the last few years. - I think that KMS problem symptoms are more severe than I infer Howard is experiencing Good luck! Sorry I haven't actually got a solution for you. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 6 12:39:43 2011 From: faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Syed Faisal Akber) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 07:39:43 -0500 Subject: Gmail Backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111106073943.913024879chfnv2n@webmail.no-ip.com> Have you tried fetchmail? It is very similar in nature but should work to pull all of your e-mail from a remote IMAP/POP server. Also, you can also look at writing an application in python to use the API to pull down all of the e-mail without using IMAP/POP. That method will also allow you to backup everything including Docs, Calendar, etc... Faisal Akber Quoting Daniel Wayne Armstrong : > Hi all ... I have started to investigate different tools for creating > a full backup of a Gmail account. > > Requirements include the ability to run in the console and be setup as > a cron job on my home server. Also I want to synch in only *one* > direction - Gmail->LocalFolder - (I don't want to misconfigure > something and end up corrupting or wiping out my Gmail archive). This > is strictly a backup that is stored locally and can be browsed in > read-only mode. I plan to keep using the Gmail web interface. > > I configured my Gmail account for IMAP access and tried getmail - > http://pyropus.ca/software/getmail/configuration.html - and after > running it for the first time appears to do what I want with one > exception: after all messages are downloaded to my local server they > are all marked in my Gmail account as having been read. This is what > the program's developer intended and has no plans to change - > http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.mail.getmail.user/4081 ... Considering > the way I handle my mail this is not a big deal to me but it would be > a dealbreaker for a few other people I would help backup their own > Gmail accounts. > > OfflineIMAP is another consideration ... but by default it appears to > sync folders in both directions. Maybe that can be changed. > > I am curious ... Do other list members backup their Gmail accounts and > what tools do you like to use? > > Thanks > Daniel > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 6 18:20:01 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 13:20:01 -0500 Subject: Fedora 15 3D Accelerated Video In-Reply-To: References: <20111104214043.c4dae75c.hgibson@eol.ca> <20111105014149.GA2108@watson-wilson.ca> <20111104221502.ab693de0.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20111106132001.fea6fc00.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 10:47:59 -0500 (EST) "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > | From: Howard Gibson > > | I have just installed Fedora 15 on my desktop, and my video 3D > | acceleration has shut off. This disables a number of things, > | including Gnome_3. If there was ever a good case against 3D > | accelerated user interfaces, this is it. > > I assume that you mean that it disables Gnome 3 desktop shell. Gnome > 3 itself must still be going. Fedora 15 has a fallback shell for > systems without 3D hardware support. > > Could you be more explicit about what you observe? What stopped > working? What do you mean by "shut off" -- did your system freeze? > > Many people dislike the Gnome 3 shell and think that the fallback is > better. I've been using the Gnome 3 shell and Fedora 15 for a couple > of months and am not sure that it is a Good Thing. When I launch Gnome 3.0, I get my background screen, then nothing. On one occasion, I got distracted, and when I looked, I found I was in the fallback screen with a message telling me that I needed 3D acceleration. > | The 3D video worked at first. > > What caused it to break? Was it applying updates? > > I guess I should refine the above question. If you knew what caused > it to break, you'd fix it. What salient events preceded the breakage? I don't know. I have been running XFCE a bit. It has locked down my login screen so that if I want to run anything else, I must deliberately select it. The run-whatever-I-ran-last-time feature is disabled. Once, a long time ago, I tried out XFCE, and it screwed up my Gnome settings. On the whole, XFCE is a nice window manager, but I am suspicious. > Have you applied all the Fedora 15 updates (there are a lot, and they > keep on coming)? I'm a firm believer in applying all distro-supplied > updates (despite all the scars I've gotten from doing so). I am trying to install updates. I am running kpackagekit. It says I have 779 updates pending. When I try to install them all, I get an error message "An error occurred while running the transaction. More information is available in the detailed report." The detailed report identifies the offending package. If I delete that from the list, I get another offending package. It looks like I can do updates one at a time. Nine at a time seems to have worked. > Good luck! Sorry I haven't actually got a solution for you. Every bit helps. I am probably going to have re-install this thing, but it would be nice to know what I did wrong. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 6 18:55:54 2011 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 15:55:54 -0300 Subject: Gmail Backup In-Reply-To: <20111106073943.913024879chfnv2n-2RFepEojUI2QMrzro3nHSQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20111106073943.913024879chfnv2n@webmail.no-ip.com> Message-ID: You should take a look at this one: http://www.gmail-backup.com/ Works just fine for both, backup and restore. Used it to backup and restore more than 50 gmail accounts without problems. best regards. =================================================== Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha - Kalib Graduando em Sistemas de Informa??es - EST?CIO/FIC Usu?rio Linux #407564 | Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 Fortaleza - Cear? - Brazil Celular: +55 085 87620983 Certifica??es: ITIL V3 | CSM Minha Pessoa: Blog | Linkedin Projetos: Tux-CE | Archlinux-br | Chakra | KDE Brasil | TLUG | PUG-CE =================================================== Proteja meu endere?o como estou protegendo o seu. N?o revele e-mail dos correspondentes: use Cco (Copia Carbonada Oculta). Retire os endere?os antes de reenviar. Dificulte assim a dissemina??o de v?rus e spam. On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 9:39 AM, Syed Faisal Akber wrote: > Have you tried fetchmail? It is very similar in nature but should work to > pull all of your e-mail from a remote IMAP/POP server. > > Also, you can also look at writing an application in python to use the API > to pull down all of the e-mail without using IMAP/POP. That method will > also allow you to backup everything including Docs, Calendar, etc... > > Faisal Akber > > Quoting Daniel Wayne Armstrong : > > Hi all ... I have started to investigate different tools for creating >> a full backup of a Gmail account. >> >> Requirements include the ability to run in the console and be setup as >> a cron job on my home server. Also I want to synch in only *one* >> direction - Gmail->LocalFolder - (I don't want to misconfigure >> something and end up corrupting or wiping out my Gmail archive). This >> is strictly a backup that is stored locally and can be browsed in >> read-only mode. I plan to keep using the Gmail web interface. >> >> I configured my Gmail account for IMAP access and tried getmail - >> http://pyropus.ca/software/**getmail/configuration.html- and after >> running it for the first time appears to do what I want with one >> exception: after all messages are downloaded to my local server they >> are all marked in my Gmail account as having been read. This is what >> the program's developer intended and has no plans to change - >> http://comments.gmane.org/**gmane.mail.getmail.user/4081... Considering >> the way I handle my mail this is not a big deal to me but it would be >> a dealbreaker for a few other people I would help backup their own >> Gmail accounts. >> >> OfflineIMAP is another consideration ... but by default it appears to >> sync folders in both directions. Maybe that can be changed. >> >> I am curious ... Do other list members backup their Gmail accounts and >> what tools do you like to use? >> >> Thanks >> Daniel >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists >> >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 6 19:21:01 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 14:21:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora 15 3D Accelerated Video In-Reply-To: <20111106132001.fea6fc00.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20111104214043.c4dae75c.hgibson@eol.ca> <20111105014149.GA2108@watson-wilson.ca> <20111104221502.ab693de0.hgibson@eol.ca> <20111106132001.fea6fc00.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: | From: Howard Gibson | I don't know. I have been running XFCE a bit. It has locked down | my login screen so that if I want to run anything else, I must | deliberately select it. The run-whatever-I-ran-last-time feature is | disabled. Once, a long time ago, I tried out XFCE, and it screwed up | my Gnome settings. On the whole, XFCE is a nice window manager, but I | am suspicious. I've not tried XFCE but some Gnome 3 desktop shell refugees recommend it. I would have thought that it wasn't dangerous to the health of your system. | I am trying to install updates. I am running kpackagekit. It says | I have 779 updates pending. When I try to install them all, I get an | error message "An error occurred while running the transaction. More | information is available in the detailed report." The detailed report | identifies the offending package. If I delete that from the list, I | get another offending package. It looks like I can do updates one at a | time. Nine at a time seems to have worked. When in doubt, consider using "yum update" from the command line. For one thing, I expect any diagnostics to appear on stdout in a reasonable way. With that many updates, you might find that you've filled some filesystem. Linux generally behaves oddly when it is out of space. By that I mean: not only does it not work but the symptoms are often cryptic. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 6 22:14:16 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 17:14:16 -0500 Subject: Fedora 15 3D Accelerated Video In-Reply-To: References: <20111104214043.c4dae75c.hgibson@eol.ca> <20111105014149.GA2108@watson-wilson.ca> <20111104221502.ab693de0.hgibson@eol.ca> <20111106132001.fea6fc00.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20111106171416.dd76edd5.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 14:21:01 -0500 (EST) "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > When in doubt, consider using "yum update" from the command line. For > one thing, I expect any diagnostics to appear on stdout in a reasonable > way. > > With that many updates, you might find that you've filled some > filesystem. Linux generally behaves oddly when it is out of space. > By that I mean: not only does it not work but the symptoms are often > cryptic. Thank you. Update directly with yum and rebooting worked! Acclerated video, Gnome 3.0 and FlightGear are working. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 7 06:35:38 2011 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 01:35:38 -0500 Subject: small linux based answering machine Message-ID: <1320647738.9566.10.camel@jimslaptop> Hi, I'm looking for ideas to build a small linux based answering machine. I was hoping to use something like a Beagle Board, Gumstix or OpenWrt device with a usb voice modem. I was hoping I could use my synology NAS device but I haven't had any luck finding information on how to do it. I'd probably use vgetty in terms of software. Thanks for any suggestions. Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 7 16:28:05 2011 From: faisal-nMFrlatgk0VeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (Syed Faisal Akber) Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 11:28:05 -0500 Subject: small linux based answering machine In-Reply-To: <1320647738.9566.10.camel@jimslaptop> References: <1320647738.9566.10.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: <20111107112805.74452uw3vdey5ij9@webmail.no-ip.com> I've used vgetty in the past with a Hayes 56K Voice Modem and found it to be extremely unreliable. I would recommend something like an Asterisk based device with an FXS card. That would probably do much better than what you will experience with the vgetty based solutions. Faisal Quoting jim : > Hi, > I'm looking for ideas to build a small linux based answering machine. I > was hoping to use something like a Beagle Board, Gumstix or OpenWrt > device with a usb voice modem. I was hoping I could use my synology NAS > device but I haven't had any luck finding information on how to do it. > I'd probably use vgetty in terms of software. Thanks for any > suggestions. > Jim > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 7 16:47:19 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 11:47:19 -0500 Subject: small linux based answering machine In-Reply-To: <20111107112805.74452uw3vdey5ij9-2RFepEojUI2QMrzro3nHSQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <1320647738.9566.10.camel@jimslaptop> <20111107112805.74452uw3vdey5ij9@webmail.no-ip.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Syed Faisal Akber wrote: > I've used vgetty in the past with a Hayes 56K Voice Modem and found it to be > extremely unreliable. ?I would recommend something like an Asterisk based > device with an FXS card. ?That would probably do much better than what you > will experience with the vgetty based solutions. And sadly, that sounds like that's not likely to result in something that's fairly characterized as "small," notably in that it's not the simplest thing in the world to configure. I dropped "call answer" on my phone line in favor of a $15 answering machine several years ago, and haven't been disappointed at having been paid for it ~20x over in terms of savings. It ain't open source, but I haven't found I cared :-). FYI, here's another link to a possibility... It borrows drivers from Asterisk, but eshews the framework in favor of a 173 line C program. http://linuxgazette.net/120/smith.html -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 7 18:22:58 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:22:58 -0500 Subject: small linux based answering machine In-Reply-To: References: <1320647738.9566.10.camel@jimslaptop> <20111107112805.74452uw3vdey5ij9@webmail.no-ip.com> Message-ID: <20111107182258.GV30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 07, 2011 at 11:47:19AM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > And sadly, that sounds like that's not likely to result in something > that's fairly characterized as "small," notably in that it's not the > simplest thing in the world to configure. > > I dropped "call answer" on my phone line in favor of a $15 answering > machine several years ago, and haven't been disappointed at having > been paid for it ~20x over in terms of savings. It ain't open source, > but I haven't found I cared :-). > > FYI, here's another link to a possibility... It borrows drivers from > Asterisk, but eshews the framework in favor of a 173 line C program. > http://linuxgazette.net/120/smith.html While the price charged by phone companies here for voice mail is totally insane, it does have the advantage of being able to take messages while you are on the phone. But that's the only good thing it has. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 7 18:40:25 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:40:25 -0500 Subject: small linux based answering machine In-Reply-To: <20111107182258.GV30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1320647738.9566.10.camel@jimslaptop> <20111107112805.74452uw3vdey5ij9@webmail.no-ip.com> <20111107182258.GV30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111107184025.GB25845@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Nov 07, 2011 at 01:22:58PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >While the price charged by phone companies here for voice mail is totally >insane, it does have the advantage of being able to take messages while >you are on the phone. > >But that's the only good thing it has. It also works when the power it out. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 7 18:41:53 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 13:41:53 -0500 Subject: small linux based answering machine In-Reply-To: <20111107184025.GB25845-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1320647738.9566.10.camel@jimslaptop> <20111107112805.74452uw3vdey5ij9@webmail.no-ip.com> <20111107182258.GV30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111107184025.GB25845@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20111107184153.GW30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 07, 2011 at 01:40:25PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Nov 07, 2011 at 01:22:58PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >While the price charged by phone companies here for voice mail is totally > >insane, it does have the advantage of being able to take messages while > >you are on the phone. > > > >But that's the only good thing it has. > > It also works when the power it out. OK, make that two things. :) That is also the reason I won't switch to rogers or any VoIP for my phone line, and why I have one plain old phone in the house in addition to the cordless stuff. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 7 21:19:38 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 16:19:38 -0500 Subject: Unix Unanimous Meeting - Wednesday 9 November 2011 Message-ID: The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at 6:45 pm on Wednesday 9 November 2011, in room BA B024 in the basement of the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. George Street, on the University of Toronto campus. Unix Unanimous is an informal gathering of people interested in Unix and related topics. There are no fees or membership requirements, and the meeting is open to all. Participants typically include Unix professionals, students, and hobbyists. The meeting is always held on the second Wednesday of each month. A summary of what happens at a Unix Unanimous meeting can be seen here : http://gtalug.org/wiki/Unix_Unanimous -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 8 02:09:18 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:09:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: small linux based answering machine In-Reply-To: <20111107184153.GW30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1320647738.9566.10.camel@jimslaptop> <20111107112805.74452uw3vdey5ij9@webmail.no-ip.com> <20111107182258.GV30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111107184025.GB25845@watson-wilson.ca> <20111107184153.GW30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Mon, Nov 07, 2011 at 01:40:25PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: | > It also works when the power it out. | That is also the reason I won't switch to rogers or any VoIP for my | phone line, and why I have one plain old phone in the house in addition | to the cordless stuff. As I understand it, Rogers works very hard to make their VoIP phone work during power failures. (Their phone is VoIP, I think, but uses a different channel from broadband IP supplied to cable internet customers.) Their phone boxes include UPS. When we had a 6-hour Toronto Hydro Electric System failure last Friday, Rogers came around with generator trucks to power their whatever-boxes that live on telephone poles (or are they hydro poles?). I think my Rogers Cable TV and internet service would have worked if I had my modem, set top boxes, etc. on UPSes. Of course Rogers phone service is priced much more like Bell's than like other ITSPs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 8 14:26:56 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 09:26:56 -0500 Subject: small linux based answering machine In-Reply-To: References: <1320647738.9566.10.camel@jimslaptop> <20111107112805.74452uw3vdey5ij9@webmail.no-ip.com> <20111107182258.GV30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111107184025.GB25845@watson-wilson.ca> <20111107184153.GW30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111108142656.GX30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 07, 2011 at 09:09:18PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > As I understand it, Rogers works very hard to make their VoIP phone > work during power failures. (Their phone is VoIP, I think, but uses a > different channel from broadband IP supplied to cable internet > customers.) > > Their phone boxes include UPS. > > When we had a 6-hour Toronto Hydro Electric System failure last > Friday, Rogers came around with generator trucks to power their > whatever-boxes that live on telephone poles (or are they hydro > poles?). I think my Rogers Cable TV and internet service would have > worked if I had my modem, set top boxes, etc. on UPSes. What does that help when the battery in the adapter in your house only lasts 5 hours (and that's when new)? > Of course Rogers phone service is priced much more like Bell's than > like other ITSPs. Yeah they aren't exactly cheaper, so I will stick with something that simply works by design and doesn't involve UPSs and generator trucks driving around. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 8 16:47:41 2011 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 11:47:41 -0500 Subject: Kernel Panic panic Message-ID: <20111108164741.GA16902@amber> After upgrading to 3.1.0, one of my computers began randomly crashing, usually after a day or two. The first time it happened I jotted down the start of the message: Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason 2d on CPU0. Do you have a strange powersaving mode enabled? Dazed and confused, but trying to continue Process swapper... Kernel Panic -not syncing: softlockup: hung tasks PID:0, comm: swapper Not tainted 3.1.0-gentoo #1 The other crashes have uniformly mentioned swapper and softlockup, but not NMI. My understanding, after googling around, is that this error message is not uncommon and not informative -- it says that swapper (pid 0) has quit doing its job, which, since it runs everything, doesn't say much about where the particular problem could lie. The other crashes also identify swapper as the hung process. I reverted to 3.0.6, to see whether it was a kernel problem, but now the computer has crashed again. Perhaps a problem with the 3.x kernels? Next time I get physically near it I'll run an extended version of memtest, to see whether this is caused by flaky memory. A few months ago this computer was too touchy to accept either new gigabyte ethernet cards or new RAM. Perhaps the hardware is failing. Any ideas for further diagnostics? The log files are completely uninformative. The filesystems are not even close to being full, and, up until recently, it seemed to be running reliably. Thanks for any suggestions. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 8 17:04:43 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:04:43 -0500 Subject: Kernel Panic panic In-Reply-To: <20111108164741.GA16902@amber> References: <20111108164741.GA16902@amber> Message-ID: <20111108170443.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 11:47:41AM -0500, Peter King wrote: > After upgrading to 3.1.0, one of my computers began randomly crashing, usually > after a day or two. The first time it happened I jotted down the start of the > message: > > Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason 2d on CPU0. > Do you have a strange powersaving mode enabled? > Dazed and confused, but trying to continue > Process swapper... > > Kernel Panic -not syncing: softlockup: hung tasks > PID:0, comm: swapper Not tainted 3.1.0-gentoo #1 > > The other crashes have uniformly mentioned swapper and softlockup, but not NMI. > My understanding, after googling around, is that this error message is not uncommon > and not informative -- it says that swapper (pid 0) has quit doing its job, which, > since it runs everything, doesn't say much about where the particular problem > could lie. The other crashes also identify swapper as the hung process. > > I reverted to 3.0.6, to see whether it was a kernel problem, but now the computer > has crashed again. Perhaps a problem with the 3.x kernels? > > Next time I get physically near it I'll run an extended version of memtest, to see > whether this is caused by flaky memory. A few months ago this computer was too > touchy to accept either new gigabyte ethernet cards or new RAM. Perhaps the hardware > is failing. > > Any ideas for further diagnostics? The log files are completely uninformative. The > filesystems are not even close to being full, and, up until recently, it seemed to > be running reliably. Thanks for any suggestions. It seems to be an issue that has hit various people with 3.1, 3.0, 2.6.39, etc, back to around 2.6.37. Something to do with an NMI watchdog rewrite and some bad interaction with suspend/powermanagement. Seems it is still being worked on, since no one quite has figured out what happens. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hanoglu_b-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 8 18:17:54 2011 From: hanoglu_b-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Burhan Hanoglu) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 10:17:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Kernel Panic panic In-Reply-To: <20111108170443.GY30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111108164741.GA16902@amber> <20111108170443.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1320776274.52001.YahooMailNeo@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> You should be able to prevent crashes by disabling nmi watchdog using "nmi_watchdog=0" boot option. Sincerely, Burhan >________________________________ >From: Lennart Sorensen >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 12:04:43 PM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Kernel Panic panic > >On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 11:47:41AM -0500, Peter King wrote: >> After upgrading to 3.1.0, one of my computers began randomly crashing, usually >> after a day or two. The first time it happened I jotted down the start of the >> message: >> >>? Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason 2d on CPU0. >>? Do you have a strange powersaving mode enabled? >>? Dazed and confused, but trying to continue >>? Process swapper... >>? >>? Kernel Panic -not syncing: softlockup: hung tasks >>? PID:0, comm: swapper Not tainted 3.1.0-gentoo #1 >> >> The other crashes have uniformly mentioned swapper and softlockup, but not NMI. >> My understanding, after googling around, is that this error message is not uncommon >> and not informative -- it says that swapper (pid 0) has quit doing its job, which, >> since it runs everything, doesn't say much about where the particular problem >> could lie. The other crashes also identify swapper as the hung process. >> >> I reverted to 3.0.6, to see whether it was a kernel problem, but now the computer >> has crashed again. Perhaps a problem with the 3.x kernels? >> >> Next time I get physically near it I'll run an extended version of memtest, to see >> whether this is caused by flaky memory. A few months ago this computer was too >> touchy to accept either new gigabyte ethernet cards or new RAM. Perhaps the hardware >> is failing. >> >> Any ideas for further diagnostics? The log files are completely uninformative. The >> filesystems are not even close to being full, and, up until recently, it seemed to >> be running reliably. Thanks for any suggestions. > >It seems to be an issue that has hit various people with 3.1, 3.0, 2.6.39, >etc, back to around 2.6.37.? Something to do with an NMI watchdog rewrite >and some bad interaction with suspend/powermanagement. > >Seems it is still being worked on, since no one quite has figured out what happens. > >-- >Len Sorensen >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 12:05:53 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 07:05:53 -0500 Subject: OT Star news story Message-ID: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> SW50ZXJlc3RpbmcgY292ZXJhZ2Ugb2YgQnlyb24gU29tbWUncyB0cmlhbC4KCmh0dHA6Ly9tb2Jp bGUudGhlc3Rhci5jb20vbW9iaWxlL05FV1MvYXJ0aWNsZS8xMDgzNjI5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 14:20:54 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 09:20:54 -0500 Subject: OT Star news story In-Reply-To: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> Message-ID: <20111109142054.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 07:05:53AM -0500, Russ wrote: > Interesting coverage of Byron Somme's trial. > > http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083629N???'?????T????.???)??m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> <20111109142054.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Looks okay in Gmail (Android). Mike On Nov 9, 2011 9:21 AM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 07:05:53AM -0500, Russ wrote: > > Interesting coverage of Byron Somme's trial. > > > > http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083629N ???'?????T??? > ?.???)?? m???n????2? ????-???? h?',6??0?+j?^???? ?D?D??i??-j[?????)"???)??+- > > That link looks really messed up. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 14:26:37 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 09:26:37 -0500 Subject: OT Star news story In-Reply-To: References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> <20111109142054.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111109142637.GB30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 09:25:46AM -0500, Michael Hill wrote: > Looks okay in Gmail (Android). > > Mike > On Nov 9, 2011 9:21 AM, "Lennart Sorensen" > wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 07:05:53AM -0500, Russ wrote: > > > Interesting coverage of Byron Somme's trial. > > > > > > http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083629N ???'?????T??? > > ?.???)?? m???n????2? ????-???? h?',6??0?+j?^???? > ?D?D??i??-j[?????)"???)??+- I cut and pasted it as it was and it sure didn't work. I wonder if the character enconding is wrong on it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 14:33:46 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 09:33:46 -0500 Subject: OT Star news story In-Reply-To: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> Message-ID: <20111109143346.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 07:05:53AM -0500, Russ wrote: > Interesting coverage of Byron Somme's trial. > > http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083629N???'?????T????.???)??m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> <20111109143346.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111109143958.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 09:33:46AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 07:05:53AM -0500, Russ wrote: > > Interesting coverage of Byron Somme's trial. > > > > http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083629N???'?????T????.???)??m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? > Apparently the link is supposed to end at ...629, and the remaining line > noise has no reason to be in the message. I don't know what that is. > > Not sure why that needed base64 encoding in the first place either by > the sending mail client. > > I wonder if mutt has a bug in the base64 decoder for plain text messages > that get the length wrong somehow and had uninitialized memory shown. OK, I figured it out. It is the mailing list software that messed it up. Sticking the TLUG footer on the message in plain text when the message is in base64 utf8 encoding means there is now a chunk of garbage that the base64 decoder tries to make sense of. I guess gmail ignores it and simply lost the tlug footer. mutt did not and instead tried to decode it and got garbage. I guess people should either not use base64 encoding for plain text emails, or the mailing list software should use the same encoding when appending the list footer. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 14:48:24 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 09:48:24 -0500 Subject: OT Star news story In-Reply-To: <20111109143346.GD30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> <20111109143346.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I noticed some oddball characters after I sent the message from my phone. I checked the sent folder and at the time it was sent, the characters were appended to the link. However when I checked the sent folder again, both on the android device and from this terminal via gmail, the link displays correctly. I suspect some internal processing error on the phone's part. The app I was running on the phone is just called newspapers and it is what called gmail to send the link. Here's what's showing up on the tlug archive @ http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/ It's what I saw on my phone, which is not what shows in your email below, unless something is translating the characters. http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083629N???'????T????.???)?m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? wrote: > On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 07:05:53AM -0500, Russ wrote: >> Interesting coverage of Byron Somme's trial. >> >> http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083629N ???'?????T??? ?.???)?? m???n????2? ????-???? h?',6??0?+j?^???? > Apparently the link is supposed to end at ...629, and the remaining line > noise has no reason to be in the message. ?I don't know what that is. > > Not sure why that needed base64 encoding in the first place either by > the sending mail client. > > I wonder if mutt has a bug in the base64 decoder for plain text messages > that get the length wrong somehow and had uninitialized memory shown. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 14:52:55 2011 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 09:52:55 -0500 Subject: OT Star news story In-Reply-To: <20111109143346.GD30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> <20111109143346.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Good to know. On Nov 9, 2011 9:34 AM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 07:05:53AM -0500, Russ wrote: > > Interesting coverage of Byron Somme's trial. > > > > http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083629N ???'?????T??? > ?.???)?? m???n????2? ????-???? h?',6??0?+j?^???? ?D?D??i??-j[?????)"???)??+- > > Apparently the link is supposed to end at ...629, and the remaining line > noise has no reason to be in the message. I don't know what that is. > > Not sure why that needed base64 encoding in the first place either by > the sending mail client. > > I wonder if mutt has a bug in the base64 decoder for plain text messages > that get the length wrong somehow and had uninitialized memory shown. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 15:25:14 2011 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 10:25:14 -0500 Subject: OT Star news story In-Reply-To: <20111109143346.GD30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> <20111109143346.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Apparently the link is supposed to end at ...629... In Chrome on my desktop it looks fine and works... on my phone it looks fine but ends with 629N, and doesn't work until I backspace over the N in the browser address. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 16:13:50 2011 From: slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:13:50 -0500 Subject: OT Star news story In-Reply-To: <20111109143958.GE30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> (Lennart Sorensen's message of "Wed, 9 Nov 2011 09:39:58 -0500") References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> <20111109143346.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111109143958.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <85fwhxclyh.fsf@azurservers.com> Lennart Sorensen a ?crit profondement: | OK, I figured it out. It is the mailing list software that messed it up. It works OK with slack/emacs/gnus using seamonkey to load URLs -- Slackrat Flying the Flag of the English http://usera.imagecave.com/daveycrockett/englishdragon.jpg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 16:21:02 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 11:21:02 -0500 Subject: OT Star news story In-Reply-To: <85fwhxclyh.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> <20111109143346.GD30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111109143958.GE30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <85fwhxclyh.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <20111109162102.GF30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 11:13:50AM -0500, Slack Rat wrote: > Lennart Sorensen a ?crit profondement: > > | OK, I figured it out. It is the mailing list software that messed it up. > > It works OK with slack/emacs/gnus using seamonkey to load URLs Well the email is in fact corrupt. You are supposed to see the tlug footer at the bottom, and you don't. Some mail clients ignore the corrupt bit, and some in fact try to decode the corrupt bit and show garbage. Either way the mailing list software corrupted the message because of its encoding. There is no correct way to deal with the resulting message. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 17:54:05 2011 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:54:05 -0500 Subject: OT Star news story In-Reply-To: <20111109142054.GA30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> <20111109142054.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4EBABE3D.2060003@dinamis.com> On 11/09/2011 09:20 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 07:05:53AM -0500, Russ wrote: >> Interesting coverage of Byron Somme's trial. >> >> http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083629N???'?????T????.???)??m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? > That link looks really messed up. It's junk on Thunderbird 7 as well. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 18:21:56 2011 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 13:21:56 -0500 Subject: Kernel Panic panic In-Reply-To: <20111108164741.GA16902@amber> References: <20111108164741.GA16902@amber> Message-ID: <20111109182156.GA20459@amber> On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 11:47:41AM -0500, Peter King wrote: > After upgrading to 3.1.0, one of my computers began randomly crashing, usually > after a day or two. The first time it happened I jotted down the start of the > message: > > Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason 2d on CPU0. > Do you have a strange powersaving mode enabled? > Dazed and confused, but trying to continue > Process swapper... Turns out this was somewhat informative! Got to my office and found the computer completely dead and unresponsive -- not even any fans or lights. So the power supply must be completely dead, and these last few crashes its dying gasps. Now to decide whether it is worth resurrecting... -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 23:46:36 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 18:46:36 -0500 Subject: OT Testing android MUA Message-ID: <5x7g1ob6sqvk7oodg709vcqj.1320882396016@email.android.com> Thanks for your patience. I'm testing for trailing characters and associated MTA issues. http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083764 The topic of the story helps keep this somewhat Linux. From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 23:54:13 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:54:13 -0500 Subject: OT Testing android MUA In-Reply-To: <5x7g1ob6sqvk7oodg709vcqj.1320882396016-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <5x7g1ob6sqvk7oodg709vcqj.1320882396016@email.android.com> Message-ID: <20111109235413.GG30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 06:46:36PM -0500, Russ wrote: > Thanks for your patience. I'm testing for trailing characters and associated MTA issues. > > http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083764 > > The topic of the story helps keep this somewhat Linux. Given the content is: # ..more header stuff.. # Precedence: list # Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org # Status: RO # Content-Length: 463 # # VGhhbmtzIGZvciB5b3VyIHBhdGllbmNlLiBJJ20gdGVzdGluZyBmb3IgdHJhaWxpbmcgY2hhcmFj # dGVycyBhbmQgYXNzb2NpYXRlZCBNVEEgaXNzdWVzLgoKaHR0cDovL21vYmlsZS50aGVzdGFyLmNv # bS9tb2JpbGUvTkVXUy9hcnRpY2xlLzEwODM3NjQKClRoZSB0b3BpYyBvZiB0aGUgc3RvcnkgaGVs # cHMga2VlcCB0aGlzIHNvbWV3aGF0IExpbnV4Lg== # # -- # The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ # TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns # How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Clearly that is not all base64 encoded. I don't know what the mailing list software is, but apparently it breaks when you give it base64 encoded messages because it doesn't know how to correctly append to it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 10 01:02:27 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 20:02:27 -0500 Subject: OT Star news story In-Reply-To: <20111109142054.GA30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> <20111109142054.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111109200227.7c845772.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 09:20:54 -0500 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 07:05:53AM -0500, Russ wrote: > > Interesting coverage of Byron Somme's trial. > > > > http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083629N???'?????T????.???)??m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? > That link looks really messed up. Lennart, It looks okay in Sylpheed. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 10 01:48:33 2011 From: slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:48:33 -0500 Subject: Any More? Message-ID: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> The last two binary days of the Century are upon us 11.10.11 and 11.11.11 Just something to think about ;) -- Slackrat Flying the Flag of the English http://usera.imagecave.com/daveycrockett/englishdragon.jpg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 9 22:00:32 2011 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:00:32 +1000 (EST) Subject: OT Star news story In-Reply-To: <20111109142054.GA30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <2lw3bta7bcgu2qojqaj3q3b5.1320839816267@email.android.com> <20111109142054.GA30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 07:05:53AM -0500, Russ wrote: >> Interesting coverage of Byron Somme's trial. >> >> http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1083629N???'?????T????.???)??m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? > That link looks really messed up. I assumed he was dialed in over a modem and had NO CARRIER. :) Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Director, Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Free & Open Source: The revolution that quietly changed the world "One ought not to believe anything, save that which can be proven by nature and the force of reason" -- Frederick II (26 December 1194 ? 13 December 1250) From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 10 13:49:03 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:49:03 -0500 Subject: OT Star news story Message-ID: SW50ZXJlc3RpbmcuIFBlcmhhcHMgaW4gdGhlIHRpbWUgbGFnIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIE1VQSBhbmQg TVRBIGluaXRpYWxpemF0aW9uIG9uIHRoZSBkZXZpY2UsIGEgbm8gY2FycmllciBtZXNzYWdlIGlz IGJlaW5nIG1pc2hhbmRsZWQgYW5kIGluYWR2ZXJ0ZW50bHkgYmVpbmcgYXBwZW5kZWQgdG8gdGhl IGxpbmsuIEkgcGVyY2VpdmUgdGhlIGRldmljZSBjb25uZWN0aW9uIGFzIGFsd2F5cyBvbi4gSXQg YXBwZWFycyBtb3JlIGxpa2VseSB0byBiZSBjb25uZWN0IG9uIGRlbWFuZC4gSSB3YXMgZ29pbmcg dG8gdGFrZSBhIGxvb2sgaW5zaWRlIHRoZSBhcGsgdG8gc2VlIGhvdyBpdCBmdW5jdGlvbnMgaG93 ZXZlciBJIGFsc28gaGFkIGEgcG93ZXIgc3VwcGx5IGZhaWx1cmUgdGhpcyB3ZWVrLiAKCk15IHNx dWVlemUgc2FuZGJveCB3ZW50IGRvd24gaW4gc21va2UsIHdlbGwgYXQgbGVhc3QgdGhlIHNtZWxs IG9mIGJ1cm50IHZhcm5pc2guIFdoZW4gSSBvcmlnaW5hbGx5IHJlc3VyZWN0ZWQgdGhpcyBib3gg dGhlIFBTIGxvb2tlZCBsaWtlIGl0IGhhZCBhIGZhbWlseSBvZiBmdXJyeSBjYXRlcnBpbGxlcnMg bGl2aW5nIGluIGl0LiBJIGNsZWFuZWQgaXQgdXAgYW5kIGdvdCBhIHllYXIgb2Ygam95IG91dCBv ZiBpdC4KClJvYmVydCBCcm9ja3dheSA8cm9iZXJ0QHRpbWV0cmF2ZWxsZXIub3JnPiB3cm90ZToK Cj5PbiBXZWQsIDkgTm92IDIwMTEsIExlbm5hcnQgU29yZW5zZW4gd3JvdGU6Cj4KPj4gT24gV2Vk LCBOb3YgMDksIDIwMTEgYXQgMDc6MDU6NTNBTSAtMDUwMCwgUnVzcyB3cm90ZToKPj4+IEludGVy ZXN0aW5nIGNvdmVyYWdlIG9mIEJ5cm9uIFNvbW1lJ3MgdHJpYWwuCj4+Pgo+Pj4gaHR0cDovL21v YmlsZS50aGVzdGFyLmNvbS9tb2JpbGUvTkVXUy9hcnRpY2xlLzEwODM2MjlOFz8/Pyc/Pz8/P1Q/ Pz8aPy4/x54/KT8/G20/P+C1qW4/Pz8/Mj8aPz8/Py0/Pz8/G2g/Jyw2Pz8wPytqP14/P96WPzw/ PyU/aT8ePy0/Q1JQFD9EP0Q/P2k/Py1qWz8/Pz8/KSI/xqI/KT8/Ky0KPj4KPj4gVGhhdCBsaW5r IGxvb2tzIHJlYWxseSBtZXNzZWQgdXAuCj4KPkkgYXNzdW1lZCBoZSB3YXMgZGlhbGVkIGluIG92 ZXIgYSBtb2RlbSBhbmQgaGFkIE5PIENBUlJJRVIuCj4KPjopCj4KPlJvYgo+Cj4tLSAKPkVtYWls OiByb2JlcnRAdGltZXRyYXZlbGxlci5vcmcJCUxpbnV4IGNvdW50ZXIgSUQgIzE2NDQwCj5JUkM6 IFNvbHZlciAoT0ZUQyAmIEZyZWVub2RlKQo+V2ViOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnByYWN0aWNhbHN5c2Fk bWluLmNvbQo+RGlyZWN0b3IsIFNvZnR3YXJlIGluIHRoZSBQdWJsaWMgSW50ZXJlc3QgKGh0dHA6 Ly9zcGktaW5jLm9yZy8pCj5GcmVlICYgT3BlbiBTb3VyY2U6IFRoZSByZXZvbHV0aW9uIHRoYXQg cXVpZXRseSBjaGFuZ2VkIHRoZSB3b3JsZAo+Ik9uZSBvdWdodCBub3QgdG8gYmVsaWV2ZSBhbnl0 aGluZywgc2F2ZSB0aGF0IHdoaWNoIGNhbiBiZSBwcm92ZW4gYnkgbmF0dXJlIGFuZCB0aGUgZm9y Y2Ugb2YgcmVhc29uIiAtLSBGcmVkZXJpY2sgSUkgKDI2IERlY2VtYmVyIDExOTQg4oCTIDEzIERl Y2VtYmVyIDEyNTAp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 10 14:37:12 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:37:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <85ipmszr06.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011, Slack Rat wrote: > The last two binary days of the Century are upon us > > 11.10.11 and 11.11.11 I don't consider those to be dates; the year is 2011. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 10 15:29:42 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:29:42 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <20111110152942.GH30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 09:37:12AM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 9 Nov 2011, Slack Rat wrote: > > >The last two binary days of the Century are upon us > > > >11.10.11 and 11.11.11 > > I don't consider those to be dates; the year is 2011. Besides 11.10.11 was a month ago. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 10 18:00:45 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:00:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <20111110152942.GH30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110152942.GH30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Nov 2011, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 09:37:12AM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> On Wed, 9 Nov 2011, Slack Rat wrote: >> >>> The last two binary days of the Century are upon us >>> >>> 11.10.11 and 11.11.11 >> >> I don't consider those to be dates; the year is 2011. > > Besides 11.10.11 was a month ago. No, it was 2,000 years and 1 month ago! -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 10 18:12:45 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:12:45 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110152942.GH30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4EBC141D.7010202@rogers.com> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> Besides 11.10.11 was a month ago. > > No, it was 2,000 years and 1 month ago! Actually, even that was off by about 10 days or so, due to difference between Julian & Gregorian calendars. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 10 19:38:40 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:38:40 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <4EBC141D.7010202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110152942.GH30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4EBC141D.7010202@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20111110193840.GI30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 01:12:45PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Actually, even that was off by about 10 days or so, due to > difference between Julian & Gregorian calendars. I doubt either of those was in use at the time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 10 20:17:51 2011 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:17:51 -0500 Subject: Convert Email to RSS on a large scale? Message-ID: Right, short and sweet. I am processing hundreds of thousands of email messages using courier. These messages are then distributed to the 20 team members mail addresses on the mail server, and they then are pulling all this mail to usually 8 to 10 workstations using IMAP. This is insane, yes; my question is this: *Is there a tool who could convert the messages courier receives into a monster RSS feed? My goal is to stop duplicating this gigantic mess of messages for each user. john., -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 10 20:26:12 2011 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:26:12 -0500 Subject: Convert Email to RSS on a large scale? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EBC3364.7060707@rogers.com> On 10/11/11 3:17 PM, John Miles wrote: > I am processing hundreds of thousands of email messages using courier. > These messages are then distributed to the 20 team members mail > addresses on the mail server, and they then are pulling all this mail to > usually 8 to 10 workstations using IMAP. Instead of distributing to the 20 team members, send it to a mail archive with a web interface. Then the team can browse the mail archive. Or, set up the feed as a news group. Then a newsreader would let the users see what messages they've already looked at. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 10 20:47:54 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:47:54 -0500 Subject: Convert Email to RSS on a large scale? In-Reply-To: <4EBC3364.7060707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4EBC3364.7060707@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Yanni Chiu wrote: > On 10/11/11 3:17 PM, John Miles wrote: > >> I am processing hundreds of thousands of email messages using courier. >> These messages are then distributed to the 20 team members mail >> addresses on the mail server, and they then are pulling all this mail to >> usually 8 to 10 workstations using IMAP. >> > > Instead of distributing to the 20 team members, send it to a mail archive > with a web interface. Then the team can browse the mail archive. Or, set up the feed as a news group. Then a newsreader would let the users > see what messages they've already looked at. > Or put all the messages in a single IMAP account and give everyone read-only access to it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 01:55:51 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 20:55:51 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:37:12 -0500 (EST) "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > On Wed, 9 Nov 2011, Slack Rat wrote: > > > The last two binary days of the Century are upon us > > > > 11.10.11 and 11.11.11 > > I don't consider those to be dates; the year is 2011. Chris, I agree. The only number dates I recognize and trust are ISO format. The last binary date was 1111.11.11. A fairly long time ago, back before I was on the internet. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 01:58:43 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 20:58:43 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 09:37:12 -0500 (EST) > "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > >> On Wed, 9 Nov 2011, Slack Rat wrote: >> >> > The last two binary days of the Century are upon us >> > >> > 11.10.11 and 11.11.11 >> >> ? ? I don't consider those to be dates; the year is 2011. > > Chris, > > ? I agree. ?The only number dates I recognize and trust are ISO format. ?The last binary date was > > ? 1111.11.11. So, the next binary date would be... 10000.01.01 ... > ? A fairly long time ago, back before I was on the internet. > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 03:37:30 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 22:37:30 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <20111110193840.GI30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110152942.GH30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4EBC141D.7010202@rogers.com> <20111110193840.GI30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4EBC987A.1050201@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 01:12:45PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > >> Actually, even that was off by about 10 days or so, due to >> difference between Julian& Gregorian calendars. >> > I doubt either of those was in use at the time. > > Actually, the Julian calendar would have been, as it was in use from 45 BC* until the Gregorian calendar was implemented, which occurred at different times in different countries. *I guess back in those days, when you got a new calendar, the year number decremented from the previous. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 03:51:20 2011 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 22:51:20 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4EBC9BB8.4000508@rogers.com> On 10/11/11 8:58 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > > So, the next binary date would be... 10000.01.01 ... Then it's a good thing there's lots of palindrome dates to come. 20100102 and 20111102 just passed. 20200202 and 20211202 coming up. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 05:10:34 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 00:10:34 -0500 Subject: Convert Email to RSS on a large scale? In-Reply-To: <4EBC3364.7060707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4EBC3364.7060707@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20111111051034.GA3921@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 03:26:12PM -0500, Yanni Chiu wrote: > On 10/11/11 3:17 PM, John Miles wrote: > >I am processing hundreds of thousands of email messages using > >courier. These messages are then distributed to the 20 team members > >mail addresses on the mail server, and they then are pulling all this > >mail to usually 8 to 10 workstations using IMAP. > > Instead of distributing to the 20 team members, send it to a mail > archive with a web interface. Then the team can browse the mail > archive. Google Group comes to mind. > > Or, set up the feed as a news group. Then a newsreader would let the > users see what messages they've already looked at. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 06:01:25 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 01:01:25 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <4EBC9BB8.4000508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson@eol.ca> <4EBC9BB8.4000508@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4EBCBA35.4010104@ve3syb.ca> On 11-11-10 10:51 PM, Yanni Chiu wrote: > Then it's a good thing there's lots of palindrome dates to come. Another of the recent palindromic dates is 11022011. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 13:19:36 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:19:36 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4EBD20E8.8060304@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > The last binary date was > > 1111.11.11. > > A fairly long time ago, back before I was on the internet. > WOW!!! That was a long time ago. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 13:21:17 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:21:17 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4EBD214D.80304@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > So, the next binary date would be... 10000.01.01 ... > And the Leafs still won't have won Stanley Cup by then. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 13:24:11 2011 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:24:11 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <4EBD20E8.8060304-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson@eol.ca> <4EBD20E8.8060304@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4EBD21FB.2040601@rogers.com> On 11-11-11 08:19 AM, James Knott wrote: > Howard Gibson wrote: >> The last binary date was >> >> 1111.11.11. >> >> A fairly long time ago, back before I was on the internet. > > WOW!!! > > That was a long time ago. ;-) 111 1101 1011.1011.1011 Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 14:32:09 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:32:09 -0500 Subject: Convert Email to RSS on a large scale? In-Reply-To: <20111111051034.GA3921-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4EBC3364.7060707@rogers.com> <20111111051034.GA3921@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: WordPress allows you to import email to a blog . It's a blogging software so they have RSS, Atom, and RDF. If you want to make it private you could use HTTP Authentication plugin . On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:10 AM, William Park wrote: > On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 03:26:12PM -0500, Yanni Chiu wrote: >> On 10/11/11 3:17 PM, John Miles wrote: >> >I am processing hundreds of thousands of email messages using >> >courier. ?These messages are then distributed to the 20 team members >> >mail addresses on the mail server, and they then are pulling all this >> >mail to usually 8 to 10 workstations using IMAP. >> >> Instead of distributing to the 20 team members, send it to a mail >> archive with a web interface. Then the team can browse the mail >> archive. > > Google Group comes to mind. > >> >> Or, set up the feed as a news group. Then a newsreader would let the >> users see what messages they've already looked at. > > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 15:14:17 2011 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:14:17 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <4EBD21FB.2040601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson@eol.ca> <4EBD20E8.8060304@rogers.com> <4EBD21FB.2040601@rogers.com> Message-ID: >From the Goonshow scripts: http://www.thegoonshow.net/scripts_show.asp?title=s08e22_world_war_one Bloodnok: Don't worry Neddie folks. Look, here's a special offer: 10,000 unused 1904 calendars. Seagoon: 1904? But that's gone. Bloodnok: Ah, but if it ever comes back, you'll make a fortune! Seagoon: You loony military man! How can it come back? Bloodnok: Great larruping nurglers! Look here. Look, monday comes back once a week, december comes back once a year! Seagoon: Well? Bloodnok: Well, 1904 will come back, it just takes longer, that's all. j -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 15:43:27 2011 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:43:27 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson@eol.ca> <4EBD20E8.8060304@rogers.com> <4EBD21FB.2040601@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4EBD429F.7040208@the-wire.com> On 11/11/2011 10:14 AM, John Martin wrote: > [ ... ] > Bloodnok: > Well, 1904 will come back, it just takes longer, that's all. > :) http://pbfcomics.com/111/ Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 17:49:17 2011 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:49:17 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <4EBD214D.80304-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson@eol.ca> <4EBD214D.80304@rogers.com> Message-ID: Finally a comment worth reading ;) Renata Rocha http://renata.org On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 08:21, James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> So, the next binary date would be... 10000.01.01 ... >> > > And the Leafs still won't have won Stanley Cup by then. ?;-) > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 19:56:36 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:56:36 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20111111195636.GB27294@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 08:55:51PM -0500, Howard Gibson wrote > The only number dates I recognize and trust are ISO format. One date I remember from a few years ago is when I took posession of my current condo, and wrote out a cheque for the insurance policy. The cheques from TD Canada Trust use DDMMYYYY. So July 20th, 2007 worked out on the cheque to 20072007. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 20:21:55 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:21:55 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <4EBC987A.1050201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110152942.GH30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4EBC141D.7010202@rogers.com> <20111110193840.GI30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4EBC987A.1050201@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20111111202155.GJ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 10:37:30PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Actually, the Julian calendar would have been, as it was in use from > 45 BC* until the Gregorian calendar was implemented, which occurred > at different times in different countries. The Julian calendar was used, but it defines the length of months and leap years. It does not define what year it is. > *I guess back in those days, when you got a new calendar, the year > number decremented from the previous. ;-) Yeah, they had fully predicted the future. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 20:25:54 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:25:54 -0500 Subject: Any More? In-Reply-To: <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <85ipmszr06.fsf@azurservers.com> <20111110205551.18046369.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20111111202554.GK30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 08:55:51PM -0500, Howard Gibson wrote: > I agree. The only number dates I recognize and trust are ISO format. The last binary date was > > 1111.11.11. > > A fairly long time ago, back before I was on the internet. The last date that in an arbitrary decimal format happened to look like valid binary. Now the year 11111111111 month 111 day 11111 is a proper interesting binary date. That would be 2047-07-31. Might hopefully even be in my lifetime. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 11 21:55:35 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:55:35 -0500 Subject: Recovering openLDAP rootdn Message-ID: Pals, Is there a way one can over change openLDAP rootdn password without starting from scratch? I have googled for hours and I seem not to be in luck today? ldapadd -x -D "cn=admin,dc=example,dc=local" -W -f ppolicy.ldif SASL/DIGEST-MD5 authentication started ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: Invalid credentials (49) ldapmodify -r -D 'cn=admin,dc=example,dc=local' -W < ppolicy.ldif Enter LDAP Password: SASL/DIGEST-MD5 authentication started ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: Invalid credentials (49) william:~# sasldblistusers2 admin at william: userPassword kvoort at william: userPassword user at william: userPassword Just curious if there is someone out there who has had such an experience Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 12 23:47:07 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 18:47:07 -0500 Subject: Jack Audio In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On my way to soup last week, a HackLabber observed that a system called Jack Audio (see http://jackaudio.org/) was somehow worth looking at. It seems like a bit of interesting infrastructure if one has a keen need to manage a bunch of audio sources that are to share sound on a single Linux box. Not being in much need of such (I tend to use "appliances" to play music for me), I'm not sure Jack is truly of any interest to me. Am I missing some crucial application of it that I should be aware of? Has anyone else found it so useful as to care lots? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 13 00:42:23 2011 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 19:42:23 -0500 Subject: Jack Audio In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EBF126F.6080907@teksavvy.com> On 11/12/2011 06:47 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On my way to soup last week, a HackLabber observed that a system called > Jack Audio (see http://jackaudio.org/) was somehow worth looking at. > > It seems like a bit of interesting infrastructure if one has a keen need to > manage a bunch of audio sources that are to share sound on a single Linux > box. Not being in much need of such (I tend to use "appliances" to play > music for me), I'm not sure Jack is truly of any interest to me. Am I > missing some crucial application of it that I should be aware of? Has > anyone else found it so useful as to care lots? > If you want to do more than play music as is it might be of interest. E.g,, pipe softsynths, etc., into a multitrack recording studio app. One way I use Jack involves the Jack symbiot fJack (comes with iForth). -- clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 13 23:46:33 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:46:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Jack Audio In-Reply-To: <4EBF126F.6080907-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4EBF126F.6080907@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: | From: Elliott Chapin | On 11/12/2011 06:47 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: | > On my way to soup last week, a HackLabber observed that a system called | > Jack Audio (see http://jackaudio.org/) was somehow worth looking at. | If you want to do more than play music as is it might be of interest. | E.g,, pipe softsynths, etc., into a multitrack recording studio app. | One way I use Jack involves the Jack symbiot fJack (comes with iForth). The HackLabber that Chris and I met on the TTC was, in fact, Elliott. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 00:12:02 2011 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 19:12:02 -0500 Subject: Jack Audio In-Reply-To: References: <4EBF126F.6080907@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4EC05CD2.2000302@teksavvy.com> On 11/13/2011 06:46 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Elliott Chapin > > | On 11/12/2011 06:47 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > | > On my way to soup last week, a HackLabber observed that a system called > | > Jack Audio (see http://jackaudio.org/) was somehow worth looking at. > > | If you want to do more than play music as is it might be of interest. > | E.g,, pipe softsynths, etc., into a multitrack recording studio app. > | One way I use Jack involves the Jack symbiot fJack (comes with iForth). > > The HackLabber that Chris and I met on the TTC was, in fact, Elliott. Well, I'm just a Tues. nonmember. Not enough justification for membership. I feel that I need to have something of perceptible benefit to actual hacklabbers (working on it). -- clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 16:48:24 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:48:24 -0500 Subject: For colour hackers Message-ID: The ColorHug is a small accessory that measures displayed colors very accurately. It is held on your display and plugged into a spare USB port on the computer for the duration of the calibration. http://www.hughski.com/ All the code, including firmware and schematics, is available as free software: https://gitorious.org/colorhug -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 17:53:02 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:53:02 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: How to do this? I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got the last page. Solutions I find on Google all either refer to Acrobat or some other Windows software. One I found with Openoffice referred to inserting the PDF's into an ODT file then exporting, my Libreoffice doesn't have the ability to insert PDF. Any ideas? -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 18:02:28 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:02:28 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: IENoZWNrIG91dCBhIGNvbW1hbmQgbGluZSB0b29sIGNhbGxlZCBwZGYgYnVyc3QuIEl0IGNhbiBz ZXBhcmF0ZSB0byBpbmRpdmlkdWFsIHBhZ2VzIGFuZCByZWNvbWJpbmUgcGFnZXMgYXMgd2VsbC4K ClRob21hcyBNaWxuZSA8dGhvbWFzLmJydWNlLm1pbG5lQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cgo+SG93 IHRvIGRvIHRoaXM/Cj4KPkkgdHJpZWQgY2F0IGZpbGUxIGZpbGUyIGZpbGUyID4gZmlsZSwgYnV0 IHRoYXQgZGlkbid0IHdvcmssIEkgb25seSBnb3QKPnRoZSBsYXN0IHBhZ2UuCj4KPlNvbHV0aW9u cyBJIGZpbmQgb24gR29vZ2xlIGFsbCBlaXRoZXIgcmVmZXIgdG8gQWNyb2JhdCBvciBzb21lIG90 aGVyCj5XaW5kb3dzIHNvZnR3YXJlLiBPbmUgSSBmb3VuZCB3aXRoIE9wZW5vZmZpY2UgcmVmZXJy ZWQgdG8gaW5zZXJ0aW5nCj50aGUgUERGJ3MgaW50byBhbiBPRFQgZmlsZSB0aGVuIGV4cG9ydGlu ZywgbXkgTGlicmVvZmZpY2UgZG9lc24ndCBoYXZlCj50aGUgYWJpbGl0eSB0byBpbnNlcnQgUERG Lgo+Cj5BbnkgaWRlYXM/Cj4KPi0tIAo+VGhvbWFzIE1pbG5lCj4tLQo+VGhlIFRvcm9udG8gTGlu dXggVXNlcnMgR3JvdXAuICAgICAgTWVldGluZ3M6IGh0dHA6Ly9ndGFsdWcub3JnLwo+VExVRyBy ZXF1ZXN0czogTGludXggdG9waWNzLCBObyBIVE1MLCB3cmFwIHRleHQgYmVsb3cgODAgY29sdW1u cwo+SG93IHRvIFVOU1VCU0NSSUJFOiBodHRwOi8vZ3RhbHVnLm9yZy93aWtpL01haWxpbmdfbGlz dHMK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 18:12:27 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:12:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Thomas Milne | How to do this? | | I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got | the last page. Yikes. There is no way should that work. | Solutions I find on Google all either refer to Acrobat or some other | Windows software. One I found with Openoffice referred to inserting | the PDF's into an ODT file then exporting, my Libreoffice doesn't have | the ability to insert PDF. | | Any ideas? Google differently? The first two hits seem likely so I didn't look any farther. (I do this infrequently enough that the answer falls out of my cache (brain) before I need it again.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 18:23:49 2011 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:23:49 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111114182349.GD20729@amber> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:53:02PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > How to do this? > > I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got > the last page. > > Solutions I find on Google all either refer to Acrobat or some other > Windows software. One I found with Openoffice referred to inserting > the PDF's into an ODT file then exporting, my Libreoffice doesn't have > the ability to insert PDF. > > Any ideas? On the *NIX command line, there is a suite of tools pdftk (PDF ToolKit) that can do all that and more -- split files apart into pages, recombine them in different orders, join different files, and so on. It works well and reliably. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 18:32:29 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:32:29 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: <20111114182349.GD20729@amber> References: <20111114182349.GD20729@amber> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Peter King wrote: > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:53:02PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > >> How to do this? >> >> I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got >> the last page. >> >> Solutions I find on Google all either refer to Acrobat or some other >> Windows software. One I found with Openoffice referred to inserting >> the PDF's into an ODT file then exporting, my Libreoffice doesn't have >> the ability to insert PDF. >> >> Any ideas? > > On the *NIX command line, there is a suite of tools pdftk (PDF ToolKit) > that can do all that and more -- split files apart into pages, recombine > them in different orders, join different files, and so on. It works well > and reliably. > Awesome, thanks! There's even a Debian package. -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 18:34:48 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:34:48 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:12 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Thomas Milne > > | How to do this? > | > | I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got > | the last page. > > Yikes. ?There is no way should that work. I don't know why not, I've seen it work with things like video files, and of course text files. Why not PDF? > | Solutions I find on Google all either refer to Acrobat or some other > | Windows software. One I found with Openoffice referred to inserting > | the PDF's into an ODT file then exporting, my Libreoffice doesn't have > | the ability to insert PDF. > | > | Any ideas? > > Google differently? > The first two hits seem likely so I didn't look any farther. > > (I do this infrequently enough that the answer falls out of my cache > (brain) before I need it again.) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 19:00:08 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:00:08 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: You could also try the Libreoffice extension for pdf import. It is also possible to use cat, but you have to use sed to deal with the way adobe deals with EOF characters. Thomas Milne wrote: >On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Peter King wrote: >> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:53:02PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: >> >>> How to do this? >>> >>> I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got >>> the last page. >>> >>> Solutions I find on Google all either refer to Acrobat or some other >>> Windows software. One I found with Openoffice referred to inserting >>> the PDF's into an ODT file then exporting, my Libreoffice doesn't have >>> the ability to insert PDF. >>> >>> Any ideas? >> >> On the *NIX command line, there is a suite of tools pdftk (PDF ToolKit) >> that can do all that and more -- split files apart into pages, recombine >> them in different orders, join different files, and so on. It works well >> and reliably. >> > >Awesome, thanks! There's even a Debian package. > >-- >Thomas Milne >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 19:22:44 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:22:44 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: <20111114182349.GD20729@amber> Message-ID: <20111114192244.GL30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 01:32:29PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > Awesome, thanks! There's even a Debian package. Checkout the package 'pdfjam'. It has pdfjoin, and pdfnup and such. pdfjoin looks rather handy. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 19:23:43 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:23:43 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111114192343.GM30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 01:34:48PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > I don't know why not, I've seen it work with things like video files, > and of course text files. Why not PDF? Text is just text. MPEG files are designed by the spec to allow that. gzip is designed to allow that. PDF is not. Most file formats are not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 20:58:53 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:58:53 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: <20111114182349.GD20729@amber> References: <20111114182349.GD20729@amber> Message-ID: <4EC1810D.3080809@gmail.com> On 11-11-14 13:23 , Peter King wrote: > > On the *NIX command line, there is a suite of tools pdftk (PDF ToolKit) Yep, pdftk is never far from hand. It can be a bit of a sod to build, as it uses gcj + a bunch of odd dependencies in ways that I'd rather not have to deal with. If you happen to have an X509 certificate lying around, you can use pdftk + PortableSigner (http://portablesigner.sourceforge.net/) to make encrypted, signed PDFs. I have workflow that uses these tools to produce ~100 verifiable documents every month. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 14 21:23:29 2011 From: alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:23:29 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Any time I need to combine PDF files, I find it simplest to use Ghostscript. It's the most flexible way for me to do it, as I usually only want to combine PDF files, rather than selectively edit them during the merge. Here's one site with info on getting it done with Ghostscript. https://www.linux.com/news/software/applications/8229-putting-together-pdf-files Alex Gabriel Dimensia Design Studio alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:53, Thomas Milne wrote: > How to do this? > > I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got > the last page. > > Solutions I find on Google all either refer to Acrobat or some other > Windows software. One I found with Openoffice referred to inserting > the PDF's into an ODT file then exporting, my Libreoffice doesn't have > the ability to insert PDF. > > Any ideas? > > -- > Thomas Milne > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 03:34:34 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:34:34 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111114223434.4781b2e5.hgibson@eol.ca> On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:53:02 -0500 Thomas Milne wrote: > How to do this? > > I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got > the last page. $ cat file1 > file $ cat file2 >> file $ cat file3 >> file $ ... Your commnand line actually works for me. Are you sure there is data in the other files? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 03:53:44 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:53:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: <20111114223434.4781b2e5.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20111114223434.4781b2e5.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:53:02 -0500 > Thomas Milne wrote: > >> How to do this? >> >> I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got >> the last page. > > $ cat file1 > file > $ cat file2 >> file > $ cat file3 >> file > $ ... > > Your commnand line actually works for me. What type of files were you concatenating? -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 11:32:30 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 06:32:30 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: I often snag a single page out of a pdf document using gimp. It is possible to use the layers facility to take in an entire document and then output it as a mdf and convert that to pdf. Some more gimp info here. http://m.wikihow.com/Edit-PDF-Files-in-Linux-Using-GIMP "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: >On Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Howard Gibson wrote: > >> On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:53:02 -0500 >> Thomas Milne wrote: >> >>> How to do this? >>> >>> I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got >>> the last page. >> >> $ cat file1 > file >> $ cat file2 >> file >> $ cat file3 >> file >> $ ... >> >> Your commnand line actually works for me. > > What type of files were you concatenating? > >-- > Chris F.A. Johnson, > Author: > Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 14:40:38 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 09:40:38 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: <20111114223434.4781b2e5.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20111114223434.4781b2e5.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20111115144038.GN30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 10:34:34PM -0500, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:53:02 -0500 > Thomas Milne wrote: > > > How to do this? > > > > I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got > > the last page. > > $ cat file1 > file > $ cat file2 >> file > $ cat file3 >> file > $ ... > > Your commnand line actually works for me. Are you sure there is data in the other files? That is exactly the same as what he did. You can't join pdf's that way. Some viewers might deal with it, but not all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 15:34:09 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:34:09 -0500 Subject: 40 years of single chip CPUs Message-ID: A little bit of history, it is now 40 years since Intel placed an ad offering the world's first CPU on a single chip : http://www.extremetech.com/computing/105029-intel-4004-the-first-cpu-is-40-years-old-today -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 16:10:39 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:10:39 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: QWN0dWFsbHkgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIHBvc3RlciB1c2VkID4gd2hpY2ggb3ZlcndpdGVzIGV4aXN0 aW5nIGRhdGEsID4+IGFwcGVuZHMgbmV3IGRhdGEgdG8gdGhlIG9sZC4gSSdtIHN1cnByaXNlZCB0 aGF0IGhhdmluZyBtdWx0aXBsZSBwZGYgaGVhZGVycyBpbiB0aGUgYm9keSBvZiB0aGUgZG9jdW1l bnQgZG9lc24ndCBjYXVzZSBzb21lIGNvbmZ1c2lvbiwgYnV0IHBlcmhhcHMgbW9kZXJuIHBhcnNp bmcgc29mdHdhcmUgY2FuIGRlYWwgd2l0aCB0aGlzLiAKCmxzb3JlbnNlQGNzY2x1Yi51d2F0ZXJs b28uY2Egd3JvdGU6Cgo+T24gTW9uLCBOb3YgMTQsIDIwMTEgYXQgMTA6MzQ6MzRQTSAtMDUwMCwg SG93YXJkIEdpYnNvbiB3cm90ZToKPj4gT24gTW9uLCAxNCBOb3YgMjAxMSAxMjo1MzowMiAtMDUw MAo+PiBUaG9tYXMgTWlsbmUgPHRob21hcy5icnVjZS5taWxuZUBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+ PiAKPj4gPiBIb3cgdG8gZG8gdGhpcz8KPj4gPiAKPj4gPiBJIHRyaWVkIGNhdCBmaWxlMSBmaWxl MiBmaWxlMiA+IGZpbGUsIGJ1dCB0aGF0IGRpZG4ndCB3b3JrLCBJIG9ubHkgZ290Cj4+ID4gdGhl IGxhc3QgcGFnZS4KPj4gCj4+ICQgY2F0IGZpbGUxID4gZmlsZQo+PiAkIGNhdCBmaWxlMiA+PiBm aWxlCj4+ICQgY2F0IGZpbGUzID4+IGZpbGUKPj4gJCAuLi4KPj4gCj4+ICAgIFlvdXIgY29tbW5h bmQgbGluZSBhY3R1YWxseSB3b3JrcyBmb3IgbWUuICBBcmUgeW91IHN1cmUgdGhlcmUgaXMgZGF0 YSBpbiB0aGUgb3RoZXIgZmlsZXM/Cj4KPlRoYXQgaXMgZXhhY3RseSB0aGUgc2FtZSBhcyB3aGF0 IGhlIGRpZC4gIFlvdSBjYW4ndCBqb2luIHBkZidzIHRoYXQgd2F5Lgo+U29tZSB2aWV3ZXJzIG1p Z2h0IGRlYWwgd2l0aCBpdCwgYnV0IG5vdCBhbGwuCj4KPi0tIAo+TGVuIFNvcmVuc2VuCj4tLQo+ VGhlIFRvcm9udG8gTGludXggVXNlcnMgR3JvdXAuICAgICAgTWVldGluZ3M6IGh0dHA6Ly9ndGFs dWcub3JnLwo+VExVRyByZXF1ZXN0czogTGludXggdG9waWNzLCBObyBIVE1MLCB3cmFwIHRleHQg YmVsb3cgODAgY29sdW1ucwo+SG93IHRvIFVOU1VCU0NSSUJFOiBodHRwOi8vZ3RhbHVnLm9yZy93 aWtpL01haWxpbmdfbGlzdHMK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 16:14:32 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:14:32 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Russ wrote: > Actually the original poster used > which overwites existing data, >> > appends new data to the old. I'm surprised that having multiple pdf headers > in the body of the document doesn't cause some confusion, but perhaps > modern parsing software can deal with this. > >From the cat(1) manpage: ------------------------------------------------------- SYNOPSIS cat [OPTION]... [FILE]... DESCRIPTION Concatenate FILE(s), or standard input, to standard output. ------------------------------------------------------- The two commandlines are equivalent. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 16:28:13 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:28:13 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: The command is cat. It is the operator > or >> which controls whether or not existing data is preserved. Thats why he could only see the last page when he used > Each new page overwrote the previous one. Andrej Marjan wrote: >On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Russ wrote: > >> Actually the original poster used > which overwites existing data, >> >> appends new data to the old. I'm surprised that having multiple pdf headers >> in the body of the document doesn't cause some confusion, but perhaps >> modern parsing software can deal with this. >> > >From the cat(1) manpage: > >------------------------------------------------------- >SYNOPSIS > cat [OPTION]... [FILE]... > >DESCRIPTION > Concatenate FILE(s), or standard input, to standard output. >------------------------------------------------------- > >The two commandlines are equivalent. From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 16:38:55 2011 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:38:55 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC2959F.90602@rogers.com> On 15/11/11 11:28 AM, Russ wrote: > The command is cat. It is the operator> or>> which controls whether or not existing data is preserved. Thats why he could only see the last page when he used> > Each new page overwrote the previous one. The commands are equivalent. Just open a window and try: $ echo hello > f $ cat f f f > f3 Then have a look at what f and f3 contain. The 'cat' command takes multiple files, given on the command line, and concatenates them all to stdout. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 16:56:51 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 11:56:51 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: That works only if noclobber is set for the shell, otherwise it is clobbered. Yanni Chiu wrote: >On 15/11/11 11:28 AM, Russ wrote: >> The command is cat. It is the operator> or>> which controls whether or not existing data is preserved. Thats why he could only see the last page when he used> >> Each new page overwrote the previous one. > >The commands are equivalent. Just open a window and try: > >$ echo hello > f >$ cat f f f > f3 > >Then have a look at what f and f3 contain. > >The 'cat' command takes multiple files, given on the command line, and >concatenates them all to stdout. >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 17:11:35 2011 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 12:11:35 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC29D47.1080409@rogers.com> How does noclobber affect what 'cat' does with its arguments? On 15/11/11 11:56 AM, Russ wrote: > That works only if noclobber is set for the shell, otherwise it is clobbered. > > Yanni Chiu wrote: > >> On 15/11/11 11:28 AM, Russ wrote: >>> The command is cat. It is the operator> or>> which controls whether or not existing data is preserved. Thats why he could only see the last page when he used> >>> Each new page overwrote the previous one. >> >> The commands are equivalent. Just open a window and try: >> >> $ echo hello > f >> $ cat f f f > f3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 17:37:47 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 12:37:47 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: <1eb445nqmyputkgmtysra8ds.1321378265215@email.android.com> Everything is affected by the variables set by the shell when it is started. When the shell allows clobbering, existing file data is overwritten on cat something > somefile, when it doesn't, existing data is preserved. Yanni Chiu wrote: >How does noclobber affect what 'cat' does with its arguments? > >On 15/11/11 11:56 AM, Russ wrote: >> That works only if noclobber is set for the shell, otherwise it is clobbered. >> >> Yanni Chiu wrote: >> >>> On 15/11/11 11:28 AM, Russ wrote: >>>> The command is cat. It is the operator> or>> which controls whether or not existing data is preserved. Thats why he could only see the last page when he used> >>>> Each new page overwrote the previous one. >>> >>> The commands are equivalent. Just open a window and try: >>> >>> $ echo hello > f >>> $ cat f f f > f3 >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 18:10:26 2011 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:10:26 -0800 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: <1eb445nqmyputkgmtysra8ds.1321378265215-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <1eb445nqmyputkgmtysra8ds.1321378265215@email.android.com> Message-ID: Russ, you appear to be skimming, not really reading. On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Russ wrote: >?Everything is affected by the variables set by the shell when it is started. > When the shell allows clobbering, existing file data is overwritten on > cat something > somefile, when it doesn't, existing data is preserved. You're talking about this: cat oneInputFile > oneOutputFile Others on this thread are talking about this: cat oneInputFile anotherInputFile yetAnotherInputFile > oneOutputFile The above command line is fundamentally different from what you're talking about so please read it closely before replying. The difference is that cat is being given three arguments rather than one. The request of cat is that it catenate those three files together into standard out. Once the bytes are sent to standard out, the shell takes over and, in this case, redirects them to a file. At that point, the shell's clobbering settings kick in, possibly affecting the results in the output file. The shell's clobbering settings should have nothing to do with what cat does with multiple arguments, though. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 18:15:43 2011 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:15:43 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: <1eb445nqmyputkgmtysra8ds.1321378265215-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <1eb445nqmyputkgmtysra8ds.1321378265215@email.android.com> Message-ID: <4EC2AC4F.4000509@rogers.com> On 15/11/11 12:37 PM, Russ wrote: > Everything is affected by the variables set by the shell when it is > started. When the shell allows clobbering, existing file data is > overwritten on cat something> somefile, when it doesn't, existing > data is preserved. First, did you try doing: $ rm -f f f3 $ echo hello > f $ cat f f f > f3 with noclobber set and not set, and see that it made no difference? Of course, if you skip the 'rm -f f f3' AND have noclobber set on, then any existing file f or f3 will not be changed, so the 'cat' command will then have no affect. Second, try doing: $ rm -f f f3 $ echo hello > f $ cat f f f What do you see on your terminal window? It should be: $ rm -f f f3 $ echo hello > f $ cat f f f hello hello hello If you redirect stdout to file 'f3' using '> f3', why should it be anything different from what appears on the terminal, whether or not noclobber is set (and f3 does not already exist). Now back to the other alternative: $ echo hello > f $ cat f > f3 $ cat f >> f3 $ cat f >> f3 It is equivalent code, because the the first '> f3' clobbers f3 with the contents of f (assuming noclobber does not prevent the overwrite). The second and third '>> f3' will append a second and third copy of f. The '>>' is the shell's append operator. I'm not sure how to explain it any more clearly. You really have to try the commands in a terminal, and see the results yourself. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 18:19:04 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:19:04 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: ICAgSSdtIHJlcGx5aW5nIGluIHRoZSBjb250ZXh0IG9mIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBwcm9ibGVtIGFz IHBvc3RlZCBhbmQgd2h5IGhlIG9ubHkgc2F3IHRoZSBsYXN0IHBhZ2Ugb2YgdGhlIHBkZiBkb2N1 bWVudCBoZSB3YXMgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIGNyZWF0ZS4gWW91IGFyZSB0aGUgb25lIHNraW1taW5nLgoK SWFuIFBldGVyc2VuIDxpc3BldGVyc0BnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgoKPlJ1c3MsIHlvdSBhcHBl YXIgdG8gYmUgc2tpbW1pbmcsIG5vdCByZWFsbHkgcmVhZGluZy4KPgo+T24gVHVlLCBOb3YgMTUs IDIwMTEgYXQgOTozNyBBTSwgUnVzcyA8cnJlaXRlcjkxQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cj4+wqBF dmVyeXRoaW5nIGlzIGFmZmVjdGVkIGJ5IHRoZSB2YXJpYWJsZXMgc2V0IGJ5IHRoZSBzaGVsbCB3 aGVuIGl0IGlzIHN0YXJ0ZWQuCj4+IFdoZW4gdGhlIHNoZWxsIGFsbG93cyBjbG9iYmVyaW5nLCBl eGlzdGluZyBmaWxlIGRhdGEgaXMgb3ZlcndyaXR0ZW4gb24KPj4gY2F0IHNvbWV0aGluZyA+IHNv bWVmaWxlLCB3aGVuIGl0IGRvZXNuJ3QsIGV4aXN0aW5nIGRhdGEgaXMgcHJlc2VydmVkLgo+Cj5Z b3UncmUgdGFsa2luZyBhYm91dCB0aGlzOgo+Cj5jYXQgb25lSW5wdXRGaWxlID4gb25lT3V0cHV0 RmlsZQo+Cj5PdGhlcnMgb24gdGhpcyB0aHJlYWQgYXJlIHRhbGtpbmcgYWJvdXQgdGhpczoKPgo+ Y2F0IG9uZUlucHV0RmlsZSBhbm90aGVySW5wdXRGaWxlIHlldEFub3RoZXJJbnB1dEZpbGUgPiBv bmVPdXRwdXRGaWxlCj4KPlRoZSBhYm92ZSBjb21tYW5kIGxpbmUgaXMgZnVuZGFtZW50YWxseSBk aWZmZXJlbnQgZnJvbSB3aGF0IHlvdSdyZQo+dGFsa2luZyBhYm91dCBzbyBwbGVhc2UgcmVhZCBp dCBjbG9zZWx5IGJlZm9yZSByZXBseWluZy4KPgo+VGhlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2UgaXMgdGhhdCBjYXQg aXMgYmVpbmcgZ2l2ZW4gdGhyZWUgYXJndW1lbnRzIHJhdGhlciB0aGFuCj5vbmUuICBUaGUgcmVx dWVzdCBvZiBjYXQgaXMgdGhhdCBpdCBjYXRlbmF0ZSB0aG9zZSB0aHJlZSBmaWxlcwo+dG9nZXRo ZXIgaW50byBzdGFuZGFyZCBvdXQuICBPbmNlIHRoZSBieXRlcyBhcmUgc2VudCB0byBzdGFuZGFy ZCBvdXQsCj50aGUgc2hlbGwgdGFrZXMgb3ZlciBhbmQsIGluIHRoaXMgY2FzZSwgcmVkaXJlY3Rz IHRoZW0gdG8gYSBmaWxlLiAgQXQKPnRoYXQgcG9pbnQsIHRoZSBzaGVsbCdzIGNsb2JiZXJpbmcg c2V0dGluZ3Mga2ljayBpbiwgcG9zc2libHkKPmFmZmVjdGluZyB0aGUgcmVzdWx0cyBpbiB0aGUg b3V0cHV0IGZpbGUuICBUaGUgc2hlbGwncyBjbG9iYmVyaW5nCj5zZXR0aW5ncyBzaG91bGQgaGF2 ZSBub3RoaW5nIHRvIGRvIHdpdGggd2hhdCBjYXQgZG9lcyB3aXRoIG11bHRpcGxlCj5hcmd1bWVu dHMsIHRob3VnaC4KPgo+SWFuCj4tLQo+VGhlIFRvcm9udG8gTGludXggVXNlcnMgR3JvdXAuICAg ICAgTWVldGluZ3M6IGh0dHA6Ly9ndGFsdWcub3JnLwo+VExVRyByZXF1ZXN0czogTGludXggdG9w aWNzLCBObyBIVE1MLCB3cmFwIHRleHQgYmVsb3cgODAgY29sdW1ucwo+SG93IHRvIFVOU1VCU0NS SUJFOiBodHRwOi8vZ3RhbHVnLm9yZy93aWtpL01haWxpbmdfbGlzdHMK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 18:30:07 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:30:07 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: Again, going back to the basic problem, he only got the last of the three files in the pdf. If the first two weren't clobbered then where did they go? Yanni Chiu wrote: >On 15/11/11 12:37 PM, Russ wrote: > > Everything is affected by the variables set by the shell when it is > > started. When the shell allows clobbering, existing file data is > > overwritten on cat something> somefile, when it doesn't, existing > > data is preserved. > >First, did you try doing: > >$ rm -f f f3 >$ echo hello > f >$ cat f f f > f3 > >with noclobber set and not set, and see that it made no difference? Of >course, if you skip the 'rm -f f f3' AND have noclobber set on, then any >existing file f or f3 will not be changed, so the 'cat' command will >then have no affect. > >Second, try doing: > >$ rm -f f f3 >$ echo hello > f >$ cat f f f > >What do you see on your terminal window? It should be: > >$ rm -f f f3 >$ echo hello > f >$ cat f f f >hello >hello >hello > >If you redirect stdout to file 'f3' using '> f3', why should it be >anything different from what appears on the terminal, whether or not >noclobber is set (and f3 does not already exist). > >Now back to the other alternative: > >$ echo hello > f >$ cat f > f3 >$ cat f >> f3 >$ cat f >> f3 > >It is equivalent code, because the the first '> f3' clobbers f3 with the >contents of f (assuming noclobber does not prevent the overwrite). The >second and third '>> f3' will append a second and third copy of f. The >'>>' is the shell's append operator. > >I'm not sure how to explain it any more clearly. You really have to try >the commands in a terminal, and see the results yourself. >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 18:30:26 2011 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:30:26 -0800 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Russ wrote: > I'm replying in the context of the original problem as posted and why he > only saw the last page of the pdf document he was trying to create. > You are the one skimming. Uh, I don't want to fall into the trap of arguing with someone who is "wrong on the internet", but On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got > the last page. which looks to me more like my example than yours. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 18:39:30 2011 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:39:30 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC2B1E2.6000401@rogers.com> On 15/11/11 1:30 PM, Russ wrote: > Again, going back to the basic problem, he only got the last of the > three files in the pdf. If the first two weren't clobbered then where > did they go? He said he only got the last page? What do you think happened to his other pages, in your file clobbering scenario? Very likely, he got the three files concatenated (nothing clobbered). The resulting "pdf" was corrupted, but whatever pdf viewer he was using was able to display the last page. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 18:42:15 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:42:15 -0500 Subject: Semi OT: OFFER: CCNA Study Guide, 2nd edition, Yonge & Eglinton Message-ID: Not sure how this happened, but I have ended up the two copies of the "CCNA: Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide, Second Edition" by Todd Lammle, for exam 640-507. So, I am giving away my second copy. Do note that I gather there is a newer edition of this study guide out, so this should be seen as a good starting place for learning about dealing with Cisco routers, but it isn't fully up to date regarding the current exam. The book is free but you will have to come to my place (near Yonge & Eglinton) or arrange for some mutually acceptable meeting place elsewhere to pick up the book. If interested, let me know off list, thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wheagy1-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 18:45:40 2011 From: wheagy1-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Bill Heagy) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:45:40 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: <4EC2B1E2.6000401-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4EC2B1E2.6000401@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4EC2B354.9030103@rogers.com> I just did a quick experiment. With cat f1.pdf f2.pdf > f3.pdf, acroread f3.pdf showed the first file, xpdf f3.pdf showed the second file. Anyone who lived with DOS and eof markers on text files shouldn't be surprised that more structured files do not always concatenate. Yanni Chiu wrote: > On 15/11/11 1:30 PM, Russ wrote: >> Again, going back to the basic problem, he only got the last of the >> three files in the pdf. If the first two weren't clobbered then where >> did they go? > > He said he only got the last page? What do you think happened to his > other pages, in your file clobbering scenario? > > Very likely, he got the three files concatenated (nothing clobbered). > The resulting "pdf" was corrupted, but whatever pdf viewer he was using > was able to display the last page. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Bill Heagy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 19:12:33 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:12:33 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ditto. On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Russ wrote: >> I'm replying in the context of the original problem as posted and why he >> only saw the last page of the pdf document he was trying to create. >> You are the one skimming. > > Uh, I don't want to fall into the trap of arguing with someone who is > "wrong on the internet", but > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got >> the last page. > > which looks to me more like my example than yours. It's his example which doesn't work. You don't know what kernel, what shell or anything else about the environment he's using, yet you know that your cat command is absolutely able to run the way you say it does. Oh brave new world which has such people in it. > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 19:19:47 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:19:47 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111115191947.GO30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:10:39AM -0500, Russ wrote: > Actually the original poster used > which overwites existing data, >> appends new data to the old. I'm surprised that having multiple pdf headers in the body of the document doesn't cause some confusion, but perhaps modern parsing software can deal with this. cat file1 file2 file3 > output There is no problem there. Cat the 3 together all into one file. Exact same result. You won't get a universally supported pdf that way. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 19:32:44 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:32:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Russell Reiter | On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: | > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Thomas Milne | > wrote: | >> I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got | >> the last page. | It's his example which doesn't work. You don't know what kernel, what | shell or anything else about the environment he's using, yet you know | that your cat command is absolutely able to run the way you say it | does. Oh brave new world which has such people in it. He (Ian) just knows what the cat(1) manpage says. Any POSIX system that didn't match that manpage is truly and obviously broken. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 19:32:39 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:32:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Russell Reiter wrote: > Ditto. > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Russ wrote: >>> I'm replying in the context of the original problem as posted and why he >>> only saw the last page of the pdf document he was trying to create. >>> You are the one skimming. >> >> Uh, I don't want to fall into the trap of arguing with someone who is >> "wrong on the internet", but >> >> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Thomas Milne >> wrote: >>> I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got >>> the last page. >> >> which looks to me more like my example than yours. > > It's his example which doesn't work. You don't know what kernel, what > shell or anything else about the environment he's using, yet you know > that your cat command is absolutely able to run the way you say it > does. Oh brave new world which has such people in it. The kernel and shell make no difference; cat (which is not part of the shell) has worked the same way for decades. Redirection ditto. Concatenation will work for some files, but not for others. Imagine joining three passenger trains into a single consist. You wouldn't join it engine to caboose; you'd remove the caboose of the leading train and the leading engine of the following train then join them. Subway cars, on the other hand, can be joined end to end in any order. Some files are like trains, others like subway cars. (The new TTC subway trains may be different.) -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 20:11:36 2011 From: alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:11:36 -0300 Subject: Unable to set list to digest Message-ID: Hi People I was trying to set this list mail delivery for digest, but it seems that 'set tlug digest' request command and web interface at lists.ss.org are not operational or disabled (I get a command not recognized for 'set tlug digest'). Any way to get only digest mails from here? Best regards Alexandre Alencar Twitter @alexandreitpro http://blog.alexandrealencar.net/ http://www.alexandrealencar.net/ http://www.alexandrealencar.com http://www.servicosdeti.com.br/ COBIT, ITIL, CSM, LPI, MCP-I -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 20:13:52 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:13:52 -0500 Subject: Unable to set list to digest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111115201352.GP30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 05:11:36PM -0300, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar wrote: > I was trying to set this list mail delivery for digest, but it seems that > 'set tlug digest' request command and web interface at lists.ss.org are not > operational or disabled (I get a command not recognized for 'set tlug > digest'). > > Any way to get only digest mails from here? Maybe the option is disabled. I hate digests. If anyone replies to a digest, the threading is totally borked and it makes little sense quoted either. I never did understand why that was ever even an option or why anyone chooses it. Why does anyone want a digest version? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 20:19:32 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:19:32 -0500 Subject: Unable to set list to digest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar wrote: > Hi People > I was trying to set this list mail delivery for digest, but it seems that > 'set tlug digest' request command and web interface at lists.ss.org are not > operational or disabled (I get a command not recognized for 'set tlug > digest'). > Any way to get only digest mails from here? I've sent an e-mail on to the mailing list owner asking for comment. I'll let you know if I hear anything. > Best regards > Alexandre Alencar > Twitter @alexandreitpro > http://blog.alexandrealencar.net/ > http://www.alexandrealencar.net/ > http://www.alexandrealencar.com > http://www.servicosdeti.com.br/ > COBIT, ITIL, CSM, LPI, MCP-I > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 20:39:32 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:39:32 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In this case, no. Using >> made no difference at all. On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Russ wrote: > The command is cat. It is the operator > or >> which controls whether or not existing data is preserved. Thats why he could only see the last page when he used > > Each new page overwrote the previous one. > > Andrej Marjan wrote: > >>On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Russ wrote: >> >>> Actually the original poster used > which overwites existing data, >> >>> appends new data to the old. I'm surprised that having multiple pdf headers >>> in the body of the document doesn't cause some confusion, but perhaps >>> modern parsing software can deal with this. >>> >> > >From the cat(1) manpage: >> >>------------------------------------------------------- >>SYNOPSIS >> ? ? ? cat [OPTION]... [FILE]... >> >>DESCRIPTION >> ? ? ? Concatenate FILE(s), or standard input, to standard output. >>------------------------------------------------------- >> >>The two commandlines are equivalent. > -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 20:49:12 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:49:12 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:32 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Russell Reiter > > | On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: > > | > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Thomas Milne > | > wrote: > | >> I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got > | >> the last page. > > | It's his example which doesn't work. You don't know what kernel, what > | shell or anything else about the environment he's using, yet you know > | that your cat command is absolutely able to run the way you say it > | does. Oh brave new world which has such people in it. > > He (Ian) just knows what the cat(1) manpage says. ?Any POSIX system > that didn't match that manpage is truly and obviously broken. I understand what the man page says should happen, but people do things to their computers operating environment every day which confound what should happen according to the man page. I run across this situation a fair bit, it's what makes me try to think outside the box when I look for solutions. When someone posted that they were successful using the append operator, it appeared to me that clobbering could have been happening happening using >. It is possible that an environment was set up which had affected the way cat operates. That's all I was trying to point out. Although it does appear that the problem has more to do with PDF file format than file clobbering by cat. I know POSIX relates to the API, but is PDF format POSIX compliant? If PDF files use non unix format in the structure of the content of its files, what is broken, the file or the creating tool. There is no right or "wrong on the internet" as Ian said, only conditions which appear upon first investigation to be right or wrong. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 21:03:02 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:03:02 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Someone else had posted that: cat file1.pdf > out.pdf cat file2.pdf >>out.pdf cat file3.pdf>>out.pdf worked and they were able to see all three PDF pages. Before anyone jumps on this I know this is not the same as the following. cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf>out.pdf did not work, even though the man page says it should. I see only two possibilities, your environment changed the way cat works or your pdf parser couldn't do what the parser of the person who had success viewing the document could do, and that is deal with the multiple headers and eof characters in the resulting single document. On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > In this case, no. Using >> made no difference at all. > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Russ wrote: >> The command is cat. It is the operator > or >> which controls whether or not existing data is preserved. Thats why he could only see the last page when he used > >> Each new page overwrote the previous one. >> >> Andrej Marjan wrote: >> >>>On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Russ wrote: >>> >>>> Actually the original poster used > which overwites existing data, >> >>>> appends new data to the old. I'm surprised that having multiple pdf headers >>>> in the body of the document doesn't cause some confusion, but perhaps >>>> modern parsing software can deal with this. >>>> >>> >> >From the cat(1) manpage: >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------- >>>SYNOPSIS >>> ? ? ? cat [OPTION]... [FILE]... >>> >>>DESCRIPTION >>> ? ? ? Concatenate FILE(s), or standard input, to standard output. >>>------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>The two commandlines are equivalent. >> > > > > -- > Thomas Milne > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 21:07:25 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:07:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Russell Reiter wrote: > Someone else had posted that: cat file1.pdf > out.pdf cat file2.pdf >>> out.pdf cat file3.pdf>>out.pdf worked and they were able to see all > three PDF pages. Before anyone jumps on this I know this is not the > same as the following. > > cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf>out.pdf did not work, even though > the man page says it should. cat file1.pdf > out.pdf; cat file2.pdf >> out.pdf; cat file3.pdf >> out.pdf is exactly the same as cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf > out.pdf Both do exactly what the man page says they should. Whether is works with any particular type of file depends on the file structure, not on the cat command. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 21:09:28 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:09:28 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: > Someone else had posted that: cat file1.pdf > out.pdf cat file2.pdf > >>out.pdf cat file3.pdf>>out.pdf worked and they were able to see all > three PDF pages. Before anyone jumps on this I know this is not the > same as the following. > > cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf>out.pdf did not work, even though > the man page says it should. I see only two possibilities, your > environment changed the way cat works or your pdf parser couldn't do > what the parser of the person who had success viewing the document > could do, and that is deal with the multiple headers and eof > characters in the resulting single document. > > cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf>out.pdf worked just fine, just the way it was supposed to. The resulting out.pdf happens to violate the PDF spec, just like mindlessly concatenating multiple files of *any* structured format not designed for this will render invalid output files. *That* was the problem, *not* the behaviour of cat(1). As always, what happens when you try to process a garbage input file is implementation-dependent. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 21:14:03 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:14:03 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: <9a954pw10k8uik1765pfs4oc.1321391643446@email.android.com> VW5sZXNzIGNhdCBpcyBhbGlhc2VkIHRvIGRvIHNvbWV0aGluZyBlbHNlLCBsaWtlIGNsb2JiZXIg b24gPiBhbmQgYXBwZW5kIG9uID4+CgoiQ2hyaXMgRi5BLiBKb2huc29uIiA8Y2hyaXNAY2Zham9o bnNvbi5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgoKPk9uIFR1ZSwgMTUgTm92IDIwMTEsIFJ1c3NlbGwgUmVpdGVyIHdy b3RlOgo+Cj4+IFNvbWVvbmUgZWxzZSBoYWQgcG9zdGVkIHRoYXQ6IGNhdCBmaWxlMS5wZGYgPiBv dXQucGRmIGNhdCBmaWxlMi5wZGYKPj4+PiBvdXQucGRmIGNhdCBmaWxlMy5wZGY+Pm91dC5wZGYg d29ya2VkIGFuZCB0aGV5IHdlcmUgYWJsZSB0byBzZWUgYWxsCj4+IHRocmVlIFBERiBwYWdlcy4g QmVmb3JlIGFueW9uZSBqdW1wcyBvbiB0aGlzIEkga25vdyB0aGlzIGlzIG5vdCB0aGUKPj4gc2Ft ZSBhcyB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nLgo+Pgo+PiBjYXQgZmlsZTEucGRmIGZpbGUyLnBkZiBmaWxlMy5w ZGY+b3V0LnBkZiBkaWQgbm90IHdvcmssIGV2ZW4gdGhvdWdoCj4+IHRoZSBtYW4gcGFnZSBzYXlz IGl0IHNob3VsZC4KPgo+Y2F0IGZpbGUxLnBkZiA+IG91dC5wZGY7IGNhdCBmaWxlMi5wZGYgPj4g b3V0LnBkZjsgY2F0IGZpbGUzLnBkZiA+PiBvdXQucGRmCj4KPiAgICBpcyBleGFjdGx5IHRoZSBz YW1lIGFzCj4KPmNhdCBmaWxlMS5wZGYgZmlsZTIucGRmIGZpbGUzLnBkZiA+IG91dC5wZGYKPgo+ ICAgIEJvdGggZG8gZXhhY3RseSB3aGF0IHRoZSBtYW4gcGFnZSBzYXlzIHRoZXkgc2hvdWxkLgo+ Cj4gICAgV2hldGhlciBpcyB3b3JrcyB3aXRoIGFueSBwYXJ0aWN1bGFyIHR5cGUgb2YgZmlsZSBk ZXBlbmRzIG9uIHRoZQo+ICAgIGZpbGUgc3RydWN0dXJlLCBub3Qgb24gdGhlIGNhdCBjb21tYW5k Lgo+Cj4tLSAKPiAgICBDaHJpcyBGLkEuIEpvaG5zb24sIDxodHRwOi8vY2Zham9obnNvbi5jb20v Pgo+ICAgIEF1dGhvcjoKPiAgICBQcm8gQmFzaCBQcm9ncmFtbWluZzogU2NyaXB0aW5nIHRoZSBH TlUvTGludXggU2hlbGwgKDIwMDksIEFwcmVzcykKPiAgICBTaGVsbCBTY3JpcHRpbmcgUmVjaXBl czogQSBQcm9ibGVtLVNvbHV0aW9uIEFwcHJvYWNoICgyMDA1LCBBcHJlc3MpCj4tLQo+VGhlIFRv cm9udG8gTGludXggVXNlcnMgR3JvdXAuICAgICAgTWVldGluZ3M6IGh0dHA6Ly9ndGFsdWcub3Jn Lwo+VExVRyByZXF1ZXN0czogTGludXggdG9waWNzLCBObyBIVE1MLCB3cmFwIHRleHQgYmVsb3cg ODAgY29sdW1ucwo+SG93IHRvIFVOU1VCU0NSSUJFOiBodHRwOi8vZ3RhbHVnLm9yZy93aWtpL01h aWxpbmdfbGlzdHMK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 21:14:57 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:14:57 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: > Someone else had posted that: cat file1.pdf > out.pdf cat file2.pdf >>>out.pdf cat file3.pdf>>out.pdf worked and they were able to see all > three PDF pages. Before anyone jumps on this I know this is not the > same as the following. > > cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf>out.pdf did not work, even though > the man page says it should. I see only two possibilities, your > environment changed the way cat works or your pdf parser couldn't do > what the parser of the person who had success viewing the document > could do, and that is deal with the multiple headers and eof > characters in the resulting single document. The third possibility is that you are just wrong. -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 21:26:51 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:26:51 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: <9a954pw10k8uik1765pfs4oc.1321391643446-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <9a954pw10k8uik1765pfs4oc.1321391643446@email.android.com> Message-ID: <20111115212651.GQ30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 04:14:03PM -0500, Russ wrote: > Unless cat is aliased to do something else, like clobber on > and append on >> > > "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > > >On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Russell Reiter wrote: > > > >> Someone else had posted that: cat file1.pdf > out.pdf cat file2.pdf > >>>> out.pdf cat file3.pdf>>out.pdf worked and they were able to see all > >> three PDF pages. Before anyone jumps on this I know this is not the > >> same as the following. > >> > >> cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf>out.pdf did not work, even though > >> the man page says it should. > > > >cat file1.pdf > out.pdf; cat file2.pdf >> out.pdf; cat file3.pdf >> out.pdf > > > > is exactly the same as > > > >cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf > out.pdf > > > > Both do exactly what the man page says they should. > > > > Whether is works with any particular type of file depends on the > > file structure, not on the cat command. > > > >-- > > Chris F.A. Johnson, > > Author: > > Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) > > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > >-- > >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > N???'?????T????.???)??m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? References: <9a954pw10k8uik1765pfs4oc.1321391643446@email.android.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Russ wrote: > "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > >> On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Russell Reiter wrote: >> >>> Someone else had posted that: cat file1.pdf > out.pdf cat file2.pdf >>>>> out.pdf cat file3.pdf>>out.pdf worked and they were able to see all >>> three PDF pages. Before anyone jumps on this I know this is not the >>> same as the following. >>> >>> cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf>out.pdf did not work, even though >>> the man page says it should. >> >> cat file1.pdf > out.pdf; cat file2.pdf >> out.pdf; cat file3.pdf >> out.pdf >> >> is exactly the same as >> >> cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf > out.pdf >> >> Both do exactly what the man page says they should. > > Unless cat is aliased to do something else, like clobber on > and append on >> Anyone who aliases a standard command to anything that changes its basic behaviour deserves all the grief they can get. (I know some distros do that, but it's still stupid -- and sometimes dangerous!) 'clobber on > and append on >>' is the standard behaviour. If noclobber is set, then both will fail if file3.pdf exists and succeed if it doesn't. >> Whether is works with any particular type of file depends on the >> file structure, not on the cat command. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 21:58:19 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:58:19 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >> Someone else had posted that: cat file1.pdf > out.pdf cat file2.pdf >>>>out.pdf cat file3.pdf>>out.pdf worked and they were able to see all >> three PDF pages. Before anyone jumps on this I know this is not the >> same as the following. >> >> cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf>out.pdf did not work, even though >> the man page says it should. I see only two possibilities, your >> environment changed the way cat works or your pdf parser couldn't do >> what the parser of the person who had success viewing the document >> could do, and that is deal with the multiple headers and eof >> characters in the resulting single document. > > The third possibility is that you are just wrong. Wrong about what exactly? > > -- > Thomas Milne > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 22:25:29 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:25:29 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: <9a954pw10k8uik1765pfs4oc.1321391643446@email.android.com> Message-ID: > > ? Anyone who aliases a standard command to anything that changes its > ? basic behaviour deserves all the grief they can get. (I know some > ? distros do that, but it's still stupid -- and sometimes dangerous!) > > ? 'clobber on > and append on >>' is the standard behaviour. > > ? If noclobber is set, then both will fail if file3.pdf exists and > ? succeed if it doesn't. I understand this is the convention. I have however been trying to figure out the etymological, for lack of a better word, path from which my distros of interest have sprung. Some apparantly have stronger BSD like features than others. People with a lot more enterprise experience than I have know the in's and outs of these things. For the most part, I'm just a good hardware troubleshooter. Any programming I know is purely accidential which also seems to be the convention of unix I did dig out my old copy of unix power tools to try and figure out how I'm going to deal with an event driven kernel and programmable login features. Where in userspace these features are going to happen, seem to be popping up as bugs all over the place. I was trying to look up a bit of history on teaching versions of unix and I found the entirity of unix is the teaching version. > >>> ? Whether is works with any particular type of file depends on the >>> ? file structure, not on the cat command. > > > -- > ? Chris F.A. Johnson, > ? Author: > ? Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) > ? Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 23:11:51 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:11:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: <9a954pw10k8uik1765pfs4oc.1321391643446@email.android.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Russell Reiter wrote: ,,, >> Anyone who aliases a standard command to anything that changes its >> basic behaviour deserves all the grief they can get. (I know some >> distros do that, but it's still stupid -- and sometimes dangerous!) >> >> 'clobber on > and append on >>' is the standard behaviour. >> >> If noclobber is set, then both will fail if file3.pdf exists and >> succeed if it doesn't. > > I understand this is the convention. It is the specification, and it is consistent with the original Bourne shell, and all Bourne-type shells that followed it. (I think even csh follows the same rules.) -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 23:19:45 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:19:45 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: <5d72fye53yxtnc9smjd8cdr7.1321399185313@email.android.com> This is from power tools 2nd ed The C shell variable has one other feature that's worth noting Normally, the C shell lets you append to a file that you append to a file that doesn't exist. If doesn't exist. If is set under csh and tcsh , it won't; you can only append to files that already exist unless you use an exclamation point: "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: >On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Russell Reiter wrote: >,,, >>> Anyone who aliases a standard command to anything that changes its >>> basic behaviour deserves all the grief they can get. (I know some >>> distros do that, but it's still stupid -- and sometimes dangerous!) >>> >>> 'clobber on > and append on >>' is the standard behaviour. >>> >>> If noclobber is set, then both will fail if file3.pdf exists and >>> succeed if it doesn't. >> >> I understand this is the convention. > > It is the specification, and it is consistent with the original > Bourne shell, and all Bourne-type shells that followed it. (I think > even csh follows the same rules.) > >-- > Chris F.A. Johnson, > Author: > Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 00:15:16 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:15:16 -0500 Subject: Safe IO Message-ID: <2rglnu81ps6qy0r5vlj2ptd9.1321402516085@email.android.com> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 00:20:47 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:20:47 -0500 Subject: Safe IO Message-ID: U29ycnksIGZ1bWJsZWQgb24gYSBzbGlkZSBrZXlib2FyZC4gSGVyZXMgYSBsaW5rIHRvIHRoZSBv cmVpbGx5IGFydGljbGUuIFRoZSBwYXN0ZSBidWZmZXIgZHJvcHBlZCB0aGUgaXRhbGljaXNlZCBu b2Nsb2JiZXIuCmRvY3N0b3JlLm1pay51YS9vcmVsbHkvdW5peDMvdXB0L2NoNDNfMDYuaHRt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 00:35:11 2011 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:35:11 -0500 Subject: CRTC UBB Ruling Message-ID: <85a8622024847a4211e775b7c99409b6.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> The CRTC ruled in favor of the small independent ISP's http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/com100/2011/r111115.htm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 00:43:28 2011 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:43:28 -0500 Subject: CRTC UBB Ruling In-Reply-To: <85a8622024847a4211e775b7c99409b6.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <85a8622024847a4211e775b7c99409b6.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: These are Michael Geist's thoughts on it: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6132/125/ On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Jason Carson wrote: > The CRTC ruled in favor of the small independent ISP's > > http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/com100/2011/r111115.htm > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Sadiq S http://asininetech.com https://launchpad.net/~staticsafe https://github.com/staticsafe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 00:47:27 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:47:27 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC3081F.1000604@alteeve.com> On 11/15/2011 07:20 PM, Russ wrote: > Sorry, fumbled on a slide keyboard. Heres a link to the oreilly article. The paste buffer dropped the italicised noclobber. > docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN???'????T????.???)?m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? References: <4EC3081F.1000604@alteeve.com> Message-ID: What client are you using? Seems like the Gmail web client filters it out. Here is the link again - http://docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htm On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 11/15/2011 07:20 PM, Russ wrote: > > Sorry, fumbled on a slide keyboard. Heres a link to the oreilly article. > The paste buffer dropped the italicised noclobber. > > docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN > > Link is corrupt. > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > Freenode handle: digimer > Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org > "omg my singularity battery is dead again. > stupid hawking radiation." - epitron > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Sadiq S http://asininetech.com https://launchpad.net/~staticsafe https://github.com/staticsafe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 00:50:26 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:50:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: <4EC3081F.1000604-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4EC3081F.1000604@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Digimer wrote: > On 11/15/2011 07:20 PM, Russ wrote: >> Sorry, fumbled on a slide keyboard. Heres a link to the oreilly article. The paste buffer dropped the italicised noclobber. >> docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN?????????'????????????T????????????.???????)???m???????n????????????2???????????????-????????????h???',6??????0???+j???^?????????? > Link is corrupt. The link is fine (though perhaps a _non sequitur_): ; what follows it is (again) corrupt. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 00:54:51 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:54:51 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: References: <4EC3081F.1000604@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4EC309DB.90803@alteeve.com> Thunderbird on Fedora 16. On 11/15/2011 07:48 PM, Sadiq Saif wrote: > What client are you using? Seems like the Gmail web client filters it out. > Here is the link again - http://docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htm > > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Digimer > wrote: > > On 11/15/2011 07:20 PM, Russ wrote: > > Sorry, fumbled on a slide keyboard. Heres a link to the oreilly > article. The paste buffer dropped the italicised noclobber. > > docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN > > > Link is corrupt. > > -- > Digimer -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "omg my singularity battery is dead again. stupid hawking radiation." - epitron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 01:00:21 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:00:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: <4EC309DB.90803-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4EC3081F.1000604@alteeve.com> <4EC309DB.90803@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Digimer wrote: > Thunderbird on Fedora 16. The same with Alpine (on Mandriva 2010.2). > On 11/15/2011 07:48 PM, Sadiq Saif wrote: >> What client are you using? Seems like the Gmail web client filters it out. >> Here is the link again - http://docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htm >> >> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Digimer > > wrote: >> >> On 11/15/2011 07:20 PM, Russ wrote: >> > Sorry, fumbled on a slide keyboard. Heres a link to the oreilly >> article. The paste buffer dropped the italicised noclobber. >> > docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN >> >> >> Link is corrupt. >> >> -- >> Digimer > > > -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 01:54:43 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:54:43 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >>> Someone else had posted that: cat file1.pdf > out.pdf cat file2.pdf >>>>>out.pdf cat file3.pdf>>out.pdf worked and they were able to see all >>> three PDF pages. Before anyone jumps on this I know this is not the >>> same as the following. >>> >>> cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf>out.pdf did not work, even though >>> the man page says it should. I see only two possibilities, your >>> environment changed the way cat works or your pdf parser couldn't do >>> what the parser of the person who had success viewing the document >>> could do, and that is deal with the multiple headers and eof >>> characters in the resulting single document. >> >> The third possibility is that you are just wrong. > > Wrong about what exactly? cat simply does not work with all kinds of files, and does not work reliably with PDFs. I don't see any reason to assume that the "only two possibilities" are as you assume. -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 02:21:42 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:21:42 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: WW91IG1lYW4gSSBjYW50IHVzZSBjYXQgYW5kIHNlZCB0byBqb2luIHNldmVyYWwgcGRmIGZpbGVz IGludG8gb25lIHBkZiBmaWxlLiBUcnkgdGVsbGluZyB0aGF0IHRvIEtlcm5pZ2hhbiBhbmQgUGlr ZSB3aG8gdGVsbCB1cyB0aGF0IHRoZSBwb3dlciBvZiBhIHN5c3RlbSBjb21lcyBtb3JlIGZyb20g dGhlIHJlbGF0aW9uc2hpcHMgYW1vbmcgcHJvZ3JhbXMgdGhhbiB0aGUgcHJvZ3JhbXMgdGhlbXNl bHZlcy4KClRob21hcyBNaWxuZSA8dGhvbWFzLmJydWNlLm1pbG5lQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6 Cgo+T24gVHVlLCBOb3YgMTUsIDIwMTEgYXQgNDo1OCBQTSwgUnVzc2VsbCBSZWl0ZXIgPHJyZWl0 ZXI5MUBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+PiBPbiBUdWUsIE5vdiAxNSwgMjAxMSBhdCA0OjE0IFBN LCBUaG9tYXMgTWlsbmUKPj4gPHRob21hcy5icnVjZS5taWxuZUBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+ Pj4gT24gVHVlLCBOb3YgMTUsIDIwMTEgYXQgNDowMyBQTSwgUnVzc2VsbCBSZWl0ZXIgPHJyZWl0 ZXI5MUBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+Pj4+IFNvbWVvbmUgZWxzZSBoYWQgcG9zdGVkIHRoYXQ6 IGNhdCBmaWxlMS5wZGYgPiBvdXQucGRmIGNhdCBmaWxlMi5wZGYKPj4+Pj4+b3V0LnBkZiBjYXQg ZmlsZTMucGRmPj5vdXQucGRmIHdvcmtlZCBhbmQgdGhleSB3ZXJlIGFibGUgdG8gc2VlIGFsbAo+ Pj4+IHRocmVlIFBERiBwYWdlcy4gQmVmb3JlIGFueW9uZSBqdW1wcyBvbiB0aGlzIEkga25vdyB0 aGlzIGlzIG5vdCB0aGUKPj4+PiBzYW1lIGFzIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcuCj4+Pj4KPj4+PiBjYXQg ZmlsZTEucGRmIGZpbGUyLnBkZiBmaWxlMy5wZGY+b3V0LnBkZiBkaWQgbm90IHdvcmssIGV2ZW4g dGhvdWdoCj4+Pj4gdGhlIG1hbiBwYWdlIHNheXMgaXQgc2hvdWxkLiBJIHNlZSBvbmx5IHR3byBw b3NzaWJpbGl0aWVzLCB5b3VyCj4+Pj4gZW52aXJvbm1lbnQgY2hhbmdlZCB0aGUgd2F5IGNhdCB3 b3JrcyBvciB5b3VyIHBkZiBwYXJzZXIgY291bGRuJ3QgZG8KPj4+PiB3aGF0IHRoZSBwYXJzZXIg b2YgdGhlIHBlcnNvbiB3aG8gaGFkIHN1Y2Nlc3Mgdmlld2luZyB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQKPj4+PiBj b3VsZCBkbywgYW5kIHRoYXQgaXMgZGVhbCB3aXRoIHRoZSBtdWx0aXBsZSBoZWFkZXJzIGFuZCBl b2YKPj4+PiBjaGFyYWN0ZXJzIGluIHRoZSByZXN1bHRpbmcgc2luZ2xlIGRvY3VtZW50Lgo+Pj4K Pj4+IFRoZSB0aGlyZCBwb3NzaWJpbGl0eSBpcyB0aGF0IHlvdSBhcmUganVzdCB3cm9uZy4KPj4K Pj4gV3JvbmcgYWJvdXQgd2hhdCBleGFjdGx5Pwo+Cj5jYXQgc2ltcGx5IGRvZXMgbm90IHdvcmsg d2l0aCBhbGwga2luZHMgb2YgZmlsZXMsIGFuZCBkb2VzIG5vdCB3b3JrCj5yZWxpYWJseSB3aXRo IFBERnMuIEkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlIGFueSByZWFzb24gdG8gYXNzdW1lIHRoYXQgdGhlICJvbmx5Cj50 d28gcG9zc2liaWxpdGllcyIgYXJlIGFzIHlvdSBhc3N1bWUuCj4KPi0tIAo+VGhvbWFzIE1pbG5l Cj4tLQo+VGhlIFRvcm9udG8gTGludXggVXNlcnMgR3JvdXAuICAgICAgTWVldGluZ3M6IGh0dHA6 Ly9ndGFsdWcub3JnLwo+VExVRyByZXF1ZXN0czogTGludXggdG9waWNzLCBObyBIVE1MLCB3cmFw IHRleHQgYmVsb3cgODAgY29sdW1ucwo+SG93IHRvIFVOU1VCU0NSSUJFOiBodHRwOi8vZ3RhbHVn Lm9yZy93aWtpL01haWxpbmdfbGlzdHMK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 02:30:27 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:30:27 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No, I don't mean that. Don't make up things I didn't say so you can go off on some masturbatory riff. I never mentioned sed, or programming. I asked why cat didn't work the way I expected. I got an answer. Now you're just being annoying. On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Russ wrote: > You mean I cant use cat and sed to join several pdf files into one pdf file. Try telling that to Kernighan and Pike who tell us that the power of a system comes more from the relationships among programs than the programs themselves. > > Thomas Milne wrote: > >>On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Thomas Milne >>> wrote: >>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >>>>> Someone else had posted that: cat file1.pdf > out.pdf cat file2.pdf >>>>>>>out.pdf cat file3.pdf>>out.pdf worked and they were able to see all >>>>> three PDF pages. Before anyone jumps on this I know this is not the >>>>> same as the following. >>>>> >>>>> cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf>out.pdf did not work, even though >>>>> the man page says it should. I see only two possibilities, your >>>>> environment changed the way cat works or your pdf parser couldn't do >>>>> what the parser of the person who had success viewing the document >>>>> could do, and that is deal with the multiple headers and eof >>>>> characters in the resulting single document. >>>> >>>> The third possibility is that you are just wrong. >>> >>> Wrong about what exactly? >> >>cat simply does not work with all kinds of files, and does not work >>reliably with PDFs. I don't see any reason to assume that the "only >>two possibilities" are as you assume. >> >>-- >>Thomas Milne >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 15 21:47:45 2011 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:47:45 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: <4EC2B354.9030103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4EC2B1E2.6000401@rogers.com> <4EC2B354.9030103@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1321393666.12488.22.camel@cougar-natty> On Tue, 2011-11-15 at 13:45 -0500, Bill Heagy wrote: > I just did a quick experiment. With cat f1.pdf f2.pdf > f3.pdf, > acroread f3.pdf showed the first file, xpdf f3.pdf showed the second > file. Anyone who lived with DOS and eof markers on text files shouldn't > be surprised that more structured files do not always concatenate. I am reluctant to enter a discussion which is generating so much back-and-forth, especially when all I bring is possibly-flawed memory of a long-since-outdated (version 1.2 perhaps?) specification. Nevertheless, here goes. The .pdf format that I remember is to be interpreted from the tail end: the last thing is a pointer to a list earlier in the file, each element of that list points to objects presumably still earlier in the file. It was done this way to falicitate update by appending. Just append a list of pointers to the objects you want to be visible in your version; some of those may be in the file you started with, some may be ones that you added onto the end of the file you found. Okay. Time to don my nomex underwear. Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 02:37:45 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:37:45 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's the problem right here: you are completely wrong. cat file1 file2 > file will give you, with a compliant file type, the contents of _both_ file1 and file2. It will NOT overwrite the contents of file1 with file2. Using >> is for when the outfile already exists and you want to append to it instead of overwriting. On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Russ wrote: > The command is cat. It is the operator > or >> which controls whether or not existing data is preserved. Thats why he could only see the last page when he used > > Each new page overwrote the previous one. > > Andrej Marjan wrote: > >>On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Russ wrote: >> >>> Actually the original poster used > which overwites existing data, >> >>> appends new data to the old. I'm surprised that having multiple pdf headers >>> in the body of the document doesn't cause some confusion, but perhaps >>> modern parsing software can deal with this. >>> >> > >From the cat(1) manpage: >> >>------------------------------------------------------- >>SYNOPSIS >> ? ? ? cat [OPTION]... [FILE]... >> >>DESCRIPTION >> ? ? ? Concatenate FILE(s), or standard input, to standard output. >>------------------------------------------------------- >> >>The two commandlines are equivalent. > -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 02:39:02 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:39:02 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: No this is what you asked, how to do something, not how cat worked. Thomas Milne wrote: >How to do this? > >I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got >the last page. > >Solutions I find on Google all either refer to Acrobat or some other >Windows software. One I found with Openoffice referred to inserting >the PDF's into an ODT file then exporting, my Libreoffice doesn't have >the ability to insert PDF. > >Any ideas? > >-- >Thomas Milne >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 02:43:26 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:43:26 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: SW4gc29tZSBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMgeW91IGNhbm5vdCBhcHBlbmQgdG8gYSBmaWxlIHdoaWNoIGRv ZXMgbm90IHlldCBleGlzdC4gVHJ5IHVzaW5nIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUgb3ZlcnJpZGUgb3BlcmF0b3Jz IGZvciB0aGUgc2hlbGwsIGxpa2UgISBvciB8CgpUaG9tYXMgTWlsbmUgPHRob21hcy5icnVjZS5t aWxuZUBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgoKPkhlcmUncyB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbSByaWdodCBoZXJlOiB5 b3UgYXJlIGNvbXBsZXRlbHkgd3JvbmcuCj4KPmNhdCBmaWxlMSBmaWxlMiA+IGZpbGUgd2lsbCBn aXZlIHlvdSwgd2l0aCBhIGNvbXBsaWFudCBmaWxlIHR5cGUsIHRoZQo+Y29udGVudHMgb2YgX2Jv dGhfIGZpbGUxIGFuZCBmaWxlMi4gSXQgd2lsbCBOT1Qgb3ZlcndyaXRlIHRoZSBjb250ZW50cwo+ b2YgZmlsZTEgd2l0aCBmaWxlMi4gVXNpbmcgPj4gaXMgZm9yIHdoZW4gdGhlIG91dGZpbGUgYWxy ZWFkeSBleGlzdHMKPmFuZCB5b3Ugd2FudCB0byBhcHBlbmQgdG8gaXQgaW5zdGVhZCBvZiBvdmVy d3JpdGluZy4KPgo+T24gVHVlLCBOb3YgMTUsIDIwMTEgYXQgMTE6MjggQU0sIFJ1c3MgPHJyZWl0 ZXI5MUBnbWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+PiBUaGUgY29tbWFuZCBpcyBjYXQuIEl0IGlzIHRoZSBv cGVyYXRvciA+IG9yID4+IHdoaWNoIGNvbnRyb2xzIHdoZXRoZXIgb3Igbm90IGV4aXN0aW5nIGRh dGEgaXMgcHJlc2VydmVkLiBUaGF0cyB3aHkgaGUgY291bGQgb25seSBzZWUgdGhlIGxhc3QgcGFn ZSB3aGVuIGhlIHVzZWQgPgo+PiBFYWNoIG5ldyBwYWdlIG92ZXJ3cm90ZSB0aGUgcHJldmlvdXMg b25lLgo+Pgo+PiBBbmRyZWogTWFyamFuIDxhbmRyZWpAbWFyamFuLmNhPiB3cm90ZToKPj4KPj4+ T24gVHVlLCBOb3YgMTUsIDIwMTEgYXQgMTE6MTAgQU0sIFJ1c3MgPHJyZWl0ZXI5MUBnbWFpbC5j b20+IHdyb3RlOgo+Pj4KPj4+PiBBY3R1YWxseSB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgcG9zdGVyIHVzZWQgPiB3 aGljaCBvdmVyd2l0ZXMgZXhpc3RpbmcgZGF0YSwgPj4KPj4+PiBhcHBlbmRzIG5ldyBkYXRhIHRv IHRoZSBvbGQuIEknbSBzdXJwcmlzZWQgdGhhdCBoYXZpbmcgbXVsdGlwbGUgcGRmIGhlYWRlcnMK Pj4+PiBpbiB0aGUgYm9keSBvZiB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgZG9lc24ndCBjYXVzZSBzb21lIGNvbmZ1 c2lvbiwgYnV0IHBlcmhhcHMKPj4+PiBtb2Rlcm4gcGFyc2luZyBzb2Z0d2FyZSBjYW4gZGVhbCB3 aXRoIHRoaXMuCj4+Pj4KPj4+Cj4+ID5Gcm9tIHRoZSBjYXQoMSkgbWFucGFnZToKPj4+Cj4+Pi0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0KPj4+ U1lOT1BTSVMKPj4+IMKgIMKgIMKgIGNhdCBbT1BUSU9OXS4uLiBbRklMRV0uLi4KPj4+Cj4+PkRF U0NSSVBUSU9OCj4+PiDCoCDCoCDCoCBDb25jYXRlbmF0ZSBGSUxFKHMpLCBvciBzdGFuZGFyZCBp bnB1dCwgdG8gc3RhbmRhcmQgb3V0cHV0Lgo+Pj4tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tCj4+Pgo+Pj5UaGUgdHdvIGNvbW1hbmRsaW5lcyBh cmUgZXF1aXZhbGVudC4KPj4KPgo+Cj4KPi0tIAo+VGhvbWFzIE1pbG5lCj4tLQo+VGhlIFRvcm9u dG8gTGludXggVXNlcnMgR3JvdXAuICAgICAgTWVldGluZ3M6IGh0dHA6Ly9ndGFsdWcub3JnLwo+ VExVRyByZXF1ZXN0czogTGludXggdG9waWNzLCBObyBIVE1MLCB3cmFwIHRleHQgYmVsb3cgODAg Y29sdW1ucwo+SG93IHRvIFVOU1VCU0NSSUJFOiBodHRwOi8vZ3RhbHVnLm9yZy93aWtpL01haWxp bmdfbGlzdHMK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 02:54:20 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:54:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Russ wrote: > In some environments you cannot append to a file which does not yet exist. That was true on the Amiga, IIRC, but not in any Unix environment that I know of, and certainly not in GNU/Linux. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 03:07:59 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:07:59 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: SSBiZWxpZXZlIGlmIG5vY2xvYmJlciBpcyBzZXQsIGNzaCBhbmQgdGNzaCB3b24ndCBkbyBpdCB3 aXRob3V0ICEgb3IgfAoKIkNocmlzIEYuQS4gSm9obnNvbiIgPGNocmlzQGNmYWpvaG5zb24uY29t PiB3cm90ZToKCj5PbiBUdWUsIDE1IE5vdiAyMDExLCBSdXNzIHdyb3RlOgo+Cj4+IEluIHNvbWUg ZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzIHlvdSBjYW5ub3QgYXBwZW5kIHRvIGEgZmlsZSB3aGljaCBkb2VzIG5vdCB5 ZXQgZXhpc3QuCj4KPiAgIFRoYXQgd2FzIHRydWUgb24gdGhlIEFtaWdhLCBJSVJDLCBidXQgbm90 IGluIGFueSBVbml4IGVudmlyb25tZW50Cj4gICB0aGF0IEkga25vdyBvZiwgYW5kIGNlcnRhaW5s eSBub3QgaW4gR05VL0xpbnV4Lgo+Cj4tLSAKPiAgICBDaHJpcyBGLkEuIEpvaG5zb24sIDxodHRw Oi8vY2Zham9obnNvbi5jb20vPgo+ICAgIEF1dGhvcjoKPiAgICBQcm8gQmFzaCBQcm9ncmFtbWlu ZzogU2NyaXB0aW5nIHRoZSBHTlUvTGludXggU2hlbGwgKDIwMDksIEFwcmVzcykKPiAgICBTaGVs bCBTY3JpcHRpbmcgUmVjaXBlczogQSBQcm9ibGVtLVNvbHV0aW9uIEFwcHJvYWNoICgyMDA1LCBB cHJlc3MpCj4tLQo+VGhlIFRvcm9udG8gTGludXggVXNlcnMgR3JvdXAuICAgICAgTWVldGluZ3M6 IGh0dHA6Ly9ndGFsdWcub3JnLwo+VExVRyByZXF1ZXN0czogTGludXggdG9waWNzLCBObyBIVE1M LCB3cmFwIHRleHQgYmVsb3cgODAgY29sdW1ucwo+SG93IHRvIFVOU1VCU0NSSUJFOiBodHRwOi8v Z3RhbHVnLm9yZy93aWtpL01haWxpbmdfbGlzdHMK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 03:15:26 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:15:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Russ wrote: > "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > >> On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Russ wrote: >> >>> In some environments you cannot append to a file which does not yet exist. >> >> That was true on the Amiga, IIRC, but not in any Unix environment >> that I know of, and certainly not in GNU/Linux. > I believe if noclobber is set, csh and tcsh won't do it without ! or | True, but [t]csh shouldn't be used for scripting: Top Ten Reasons not to use the C shell: Csh problems: Csh Programming Considered Harmful: ...and it offers no improvement over bash at the command line. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 04:16:25 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:16:25 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: VGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgbGlua3MgYnV0IGkgaGFkIHRvIHRyaW0gc29tZSB0cmFpbGluZyBjaGFy YWN0ZXJzIHRvIG1ha2UgdGhlbSB3b3JrLiAKCkkgaGFkIGFub3RoZXIgbG9vayBhdCBvcmVpbGx5 LiBBcHBhcmFudGx5IGlmIG5vY2xvYmJlciBpcyBzZXQga3NoIGFuZCBiYXNoIG5lZWQgfCwgY3No IG5lZWRzICEgYW5kIHpzaCByZWNvZ25pemVzIGJvdGggb3ZlcnJpZGVzLgoKIkNocmlzIEYuQS4g Sm9obnNvbiIgPGNocmlzQGNmYWpvaG5zb24uY29tPiB3cm90ZToKCj5PbiBUdWUsIDE1IE5vdiAy MDExLCBSdXNzIHdyb3RlOgo+PiAiQ2hyaXMgRi5BLiBKb2huc29uIiA8Y2hyaXNAY2Zham9obnNv bi5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+Pgo+Pj4gT24gVHVlLCAxNSBOb3YgMjAxMSwgUnVzcyB3cm90ZToKPj4+ Cj4+Pj4gSW4gc29tZSBlbnZpcm9ubWVudHMgeW91IGNhbm5vdCBhcHBlbmQgdG8gYSBmaWxlIHdo aWNoIGRvZXMgbm90IHlldCBleGlzdC4KPj4+Cj4+PiAgIFRoYXQgd2FzIHRydWUgb24gdGhlIEFt aWdhLCBJSVJDLCBidXQgbm90IGluIGFueSBVbml4IGVudmlyb25tZW50Cj4+PiAgIHRoYXQgSSBr bm93IG9mLCBhbmQgY2VydGFpbmx5IG5vdCBpbiBHTlUvTGludXguCj4KPj4gSSBiZWxpZXZlIGlm IG5vY2xvYmJlciBpcyBzZXQsIGNzaCBhbmQgdGNzaCB3b24ndCBkbyBpdCB3aXRob3V0ICEgb3Ig fAo+Cj4gICBUcnVlLCBidXQgW3RdY3NoIHNob3VsZG4ndCBiZSB1c2VkIGZvciBzY3JpcHRpbmc6 Cj4KPiAgICAgVG9wIFRlbiBSZWFzb25zIG5vdCB0byB1c2UgdGhlIEMgc2hlbGw6Cj4gICAgIDxo dHRwOi8vd3d3LmdyeW1vaXJlLmNvbS9Vbml4L0NzaFRvcDEwLnR4dD4KPgo+ICAgICBDc2ggcHJv YmxlbXM6IDxodHRwOi8vd3d3LmdyeW1vaXJlLmNvbS9Vbml4L0NzaC5odG1sI3VoLTA+Cj4KPiAg ICAgQ3NoIFByb2dyYW1taW5nIENvbnNpZGVyZWQgSGFybWZ1bDoKPiAgICAgPGh0dHA6Ly93d3cu ZmFxcy5vcmcvZmFxcy91bml4LWZhcS9zaGVsbC9jc2gtd2h5bm90Lz4KPgo+ICAgLi4uYW5kIGl0 IG9mZmVycyBubyBpbXByb3ZlbWVudCBvdmVyIGJhc2ggYXQgdGhlIGNvbW1hbmQgbGluZS4KPgo+ Cj4tLSAKPiAgICBDaHJpcyBGLkEuIEpvaG5zb24sIDxodHRwOi8vY2Zham9obnNvbi5jb20vPgo+ ICAgIEF1dGhvcjoKPiAgICBQcm8gQmFzaCBQcm9ncmFtbWluZzogU2NyaXB0aW5nIHRoZSBHTlUv TGludXggU2hlbGwgKDIwMDksIEFwcmVzcykKPiAgICBTaGVsbCBTY3JpcHRpbmcgUmVjaXBlczog QSBQcm9ibGVtLVNvbHV0aW9uIEFwcHJvYWNoICgyMDA1LCBBcHJlc3MpCj4tLQo+VGhlIFRvcm9u dG8gTGludXggVXNlcnMgR3JvdXAuICAgICAgTWVldGluZ3M6IGh0dHA6Ly9ndGFsdWcub3JnLwo+ VExVRyByZXF1ZXN0czogTGludXggdG9waWNzLCBObyBIVE1MLCB3cmFwIHRleHQgYmVsb3cgODAg Y29sdW1ucwo+SG93IHRvIFVOU1VCU0NSSUJFOiBodHRwOi8vZ3RhbHVnLm9yZy93aWtpL01haWxp bmdfbGlzdHMK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 04:55:49 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:55:49 -0500 Subject: Suggestion on samba & anonymous FTP setup Message-ID: Hi pals, A quick question if anyone out here has done a similar thing. I have set up a ftp so that users can upload files anonymous, but they can not see the file after they have uploaded it. That has working fine. The problem is, once the files uploaded, one can only access them through console and the end user is not technical for such an interface. I was trying to find a way they can use these files without relying on me to copy them over to an easily accessible location. My plan was to somehow share the FTP data directory through samba. The FTP data directory is on an iscsi, so I count mount it on the FTP server rw and mount it on the samba file server as ro. On the ftp host, I have set up the ftp server so that the file permission are as follows ls -al /var/ftp/ drwx-wx---. 3 username1 ftp 4096 Nov 15 22:49 videos ls -al /var/ftp/videos/ -rw-------. 1 username1 ftp 244246 Nov 15 22:15 The economics of good looks- The line of beauty | The Economist.pdf mount /dev/sdb1 on /var/ftp/videos type ext3 (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,_netdev) On the samba host, I have mounted the same device but this time read only /dev/sdao1 on /media/storage/videos type ext3 (ro,noexec,nosuid,nodev,_netdev) My hope was, the user and group properties would remain the same. However, this is not the case ls -al /media/storage/videos -rw------- 1 500 staff 244246 2011-11-15 22:15 The economics of good looks- The line of beauty | The Economist.pdf Notice the file is now owned by userID 500? The group is different too despite being the same files system. Anyone know why this happened? The user username1 also exist on the samba host, so not sure why it was not mapped as it was on the FTP server Anyway, because of these changes, samba share has not worked. Not sure what I am missing here Any advice would be high appreciated. For example, what would be a better way of solving this problem? Thanks in advance William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 12:40:39 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 07:40:39 -0500 Subject: Suggestion on samba & anonymous FTP setup Message-ID: <924e2a3lhn0p7vc5gppbausp.1321446082255@email.android.com> SGF2ZSBhIGxvb2sgYXQgdXNpbmcgZm9yY2UgY3JlYXRlIG1vZGUgYW5kIGZvcmNlIGRpcmVjdG9y eSBtb2RlIGZvciB0aGUgc2hhcmUgeW91IGRlZmluZWQgaW4gc21iLmNvbmYuCgpEZWZhdWx0IHNt YmQgc2V0cyByIGJpdCBmb3Igb3duZXIgb2YgYSBmaWxlIGFuZCByd3ggZm9yIG93bmVyIG9mIGEg ZGlyZWN0b3J5IHdoZW4gY2hhbmdpbmcgcGVybWlzc2lvbnMgb3IgY3JlYXRpbmcgZmlsZSBzeXN0 ZW0gb2JqZWN0cywgcmVnYXJkbGVzcyBvZiB0aGUgY3JlYXRlIG1hc2sgb3IgZm9yY2UgY3JlYXRl IG1vZGUgcGFyYW1ldGVycy4KClR3ZWFraW5nIHRoZXNlIGZvdXIgbGluZXMgbWF5IGhlbHAgbWFr ZSB5b3VyIHBlcm1pc3Npb25zIHN0aWNrIGFjcm9zcyBzeW1ldHJpYyBtZXNzYWdlIGJsb2Nrcy4K CmNyZWF0ZSBtYXNrPTA2NjAKZm9yY2UgY3JlYXRlIG1vZGU9MDY2MApkaXJlY3RvcnkgbWFzaz0w NzcwCmZvcmNlIGRpcmVjdG9yeSBtb2RlPTA3NzAKClRoaXMgZXhhbXBsZSBmcm9tIHRlYWNoIHlv dXIgc2VsZiBzYW1iYSBpbiAyNCBocnMgcHJldmVudHMgYSB1c2VyIGZyb20gYmVpbmcgYWJsZSB0 byBjcmVhdGUgYSByZWFkIG9ubHkgZmlsZSBmb3Igc2VsZiBvciBncm91cC4KCiAgSFRICgpXaWxs aWFtIE11cmlpdGhpIDx3aWxsaWFtLm11cmlpdGhpQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cgo+SGkgcGFs cywKPgo+QSBxdWljayBxdWVzdGlvbiBpZiBhbnlvbmUgb3V0IGhlcmUgaGFzIGRvbmUgYSBzaW1p bGFyIHRoaW5nLgo+Cj5JIGhhdmUgc2V0IHVwIGEgZnRwIHNvIHRoYXQgdXNlcnMgY2FuIHVwbG9h ZCBmaWxlcyBhbm9ueW1vdXMsIGJ1dCB0aGV5Cj5jYW4gbm90IHNlZSB0aGUgZmlsZSBhZnRlciB0 aGV5IGhhdmUgdXBsb2FkZWQgaXQuICBUaGF0IGhhcyB3b3JraW5nCj5maW5lLiBUaGUgcHJvYmxl bSBpcywgb25jZSAgdGhlIGZpbGVzIHVwbG9hZGVkLCBvbmUgY2FuIG9ubHkgYWNjZXNzCj50aGVt IHRocm91Z2ggY29uc29sZSBhbmQgdGhlIGVuZCB1c2VyIGlzIG5vdCB0ZWNobmljYWwgZm9yIHN1 Y2ggYW4KPmludGVyZmFjZS4gIEkgd2FzIHRyeWluZyB0byBmaW5kIGEgd2F5IHRoZXkgY2FuIHVz ZSB0aGVzZSBmaWxlcwo+d2l0aG91dCByZWx5aW5nIG9uIG1lIHRvIGNvcHkgdGhlbSBvdmVyIHRv IGFuIGVhc2lseSBhY2Nlc3NpYmxlCj5sb2NhdGlvbi4KPgo+TXkgcGxhbiB3YXMgdG8gc29tZWhv dyBzaGFyZSB0aGUgRlRQIGRhdGEgZGlyZWN0b3J5IHRocm91Z2ggc2FtYmEuIFRoZQo+RlRQIGRh dGEgZGlyZWN0b3J5IGlzIG9uIGFuIGlzY3NpLCBzbyBJIGNvdW50IG1vdW50IGl0IG9uIHRoZSBG VFAKPnNlcnZlciBydyBhbmQgbW91bnQgaXQgb24gdGhlIHNhbWJhIGZpbGUgc2VydmVyIGFzIHJv Lgo+Cj5PbiB0aGUgZnRwIGhvc3QsIEkgaGF2ZSBzZXQgdXAgdGhlIGZ0cCBzZXJ2ZXIgc28gdGhh dCB0aGUgZmlsZQo+cGVybWlzc2lvbiBhcmUgYXMgZm9sbG93cwo+Cj5scyAtYWwgL3Zhci9mdHAv Cj5kcnd4LXd4LS0tLiAgMyB1c2VybmFtZTEgZnRwICA0MDk2IE5vdiAxNSAyMjo0OSB2aWRlb3MK Pgo+bHMgLWFsIC92YXIvZnRwL3ZpZGVvcy8KPi1ydy0tLS0tLS0uIDEgdXNlcm5hbWUxIGZ0cCAg IDI0NDI0NiBOb3YgMTUgMjI6MTUgVGhlIGVjb25vbWljcyBvZgo+Z29vZCBsb29rcy0gVGhlIGxp bmUgb2YgYmVhdXR5IHwgVGhlIEVjb25vbWlzdC5wZGYKPgo+IG1vdW50Cj4vZGV2L3NkYjEgb24g L3Zhci9mdHAvdmlkZW9zIHR5cGUgZXh0MyAocncsbm9leGVjLG5vc3VpZCxub2RldixfbmV0ZGV2 KQo+Cj5PbiB0aGUgc2FtYmEgaG9zdCwgSSBoYXZlIG1vdW50ZWQgdGhlIHNhbWUgZGV2aWNlIGJ1 dCB0aGlzIHRpbWUgcmVhZCBvbmx5Cj4KPi9kZXYvc2RhbzEgb24gL21lZGlhL3N0b3JhZ2Uvdmlk ZW9zIHR5cGUgZXh0MyAocm8sbm9leGVjLG5vc3VpZCxub2RldixfbmV0ZGV2KQo+Cj5NeSBob3Bl IHdhcywgdGhlIHVzZXIgYW5kIGdyb3VwIHByb3BlcnRpZXMgd291bGQgcmVtYWluIHRoZSBzYW1l Lgo+SG93ZXZlciwgdGhpcyBpcyBub3QgdGhlIGNhc2UKPgo+bHMgLWFsIC9tZWRpYS9zdG9yYWdl L3ZpZGVvcwo+LXJ3LS0tLS0tLSAgMSAgIDUwMCBzdGFmZiAgMjQ0MjQ2IDIwMTEtMTEtMTUgMjI6 MTUgVGhlIGVjb25vbWljcyBvZgo+Z29vZCBsb29rcy0gVGhlIGxpbmUgb2YgYmVhdXR5IHwgVGhl IEVjb25vbWlzdC5wZGYKPgo+Tm90aWNlIHRoZSBmaWxlIGlzIG5vdyBvd25lZCBieSB1c2VySUQg NTAwPyAgVGhlIGdyb3VwIGlzIGRpZmZlcmVudAo+dG9vIGRlc3BpdGUgYmVpbmcgdGhlIHNhbWUg ZmlsZXMgc3lzdGVtLiBBbnlvbmUga25vdyB3aHkgdGhpcwo+aGFwcGVuZWQ/ICBUaGUgdXNlciB1 c2VybmFtZTEgYWxzbyBleGlzdCBvbiB0aGUgc2FtYmEgaG9zdCwgc28gbm90Cj5zdXJlIHdoeSBp dCB3YXMgbm90IG1hcHBlZCBhcyBpdCB3YXMgb24gdGhlIEZUUCBzZXJ2ZXIKPgo+QW55d2F5LCBi ZWNhdXNlIG9mIHRoZXNlIGNoYW5nZXMsIHNhbWJhIHNoYXJlIGhhcyBub3Qgd29ya2VkLiBOb3Qg c3VyZQo+d2hhdCBJIGFtIG1pc3NpbmcgaGVyZQo+Cj5BbnkgYWR2aWNlIHdvdWxkIGJlIGhpZ2gg YXBwcmVjaWF0ZWQuICBGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgd2hhdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBhCj5iZXR0ZXIgd2F5IG9m IHNvbHZpbmcgdGhpcyBwcm9ibGVtPwo+Cj5UaGFua3MgaW4gYWR2YW5jZQo+Cj5XaWxsaWFtCj4t LQo+VGhlIFRvcm9udG8gTGludXggVXNlcnMgR3JvdXAuICAgICAgTWVldGluZ3M6IGh0dHA6Ly9n dGFsdWcub3JnLwo+VExVRyByZXF1ZXN0czogTGludXggdG9waWNzLCBObyBIVE1MLCB3cmFwIHRl eHQgYmVsb3cgODAgY29sdW1ucwo+SG93IHRvIFVOU1VCU0NSSUJFOiBodHRwOi8vZ3RhbHVnLm9y Zy93aWtpL01haWxpbmdfbGlzdHMK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 13:24:22 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:24:22 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC3B986.9090903@rogers.com> I've sent you a private email to you about this, but I'll say it again here. Your messages include junk at the bottom, as shown below. Some of your messages are nothing but junk. I don't see this from anyone else. Russ wrote: > Sorry, fumbled on a slide keyboard. Heres a link to the oreilly article. The paste buffer dropped the italicised noclobber. > docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN???'????T????.???)?m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? References: <4EC3081F.1000604@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4EC3BB0D.8080600@rogers.com> Digimer wrote: > On 11/15/2011 07:20 PM, Russ wrote: > >> Sorry, fumbled on a slide keyboard. Heres a link to the oreilly article. The paste buffer dropped the italicised noclobber. >> docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN???'????T????.???)?m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^????> > Link is corrupt. > > All his posts include that junk. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 14:07:12 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:07:12 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: <4EC3BB0D.8080600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4EC3081F.1000604@alteeve.com> <4EC3BB0D.8080600@rogers.com> Message-ID: Not everyone sees the junk. So is this my problem, your problem or the list management software as Len Sorrenson suggests. On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 8:30 AM, James Knott wrote: > Digimer wrote: >> >> On 11/15/2011 07:20 PM, Russ wrote: >> >>> >>> Sorry, fumbled on a slide keyboard. Heres a link to the oreilly article. >>> The paste buffer dropped the italicised noclobber. >>> docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN ???'????T??? ?.???)? >>> m???n????2? ????-???? h?',6??0?+j?^????>> ?D?D??i??-j[?????)"???)?+-s=== >>> >> >> Link is corrupt. >> >> > > All his posts include that junk. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 14:24:42 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 09:24:42 -0500 Subject: Suggestion on samba & anonymous FTP setup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:55 PM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Hi pals, > > A quick question if anyone out here has done a similar thing. > > I have set up a ftp so that users can upload files anonymous, but they > can not see the file after they have uploaded it. That has working > fine. The problem is, once the files uploaded, one can only access > them through console and the end user is not technical for such an > interface. I was trying to find a way they can use these files > without relying on me to copy them over to an easily accessible > location. > > My plan was to somehow share the FTP data directory through samba. The > FTP data directory is on an iscsi, so I count mount it on the FTP > server rw and mount it on the samba file server as ro. > > On the ftp host, I have set up the ftp server so that the file > permission are as follows > > ls -al /var/ftp/ > drwx-wx---. 3 username1 ftp 4096 Nov 15 22:49 videos > > ls -al /var/ftp/videos/ > -rw-------. 1 username1 ftp 244246 Nov 15 22:15 The economics of > good looks- The line of beauty | The Economist.pdf > > mount > /dev/sdb1 on /var/ftp/videos type ext3 (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,_netdev) > > On the samba host, I have mounted the same device but this time read only > > /dev/sdao1 on /media/storage/videos type ext3 > (ro,noexec,nosuid,nodev,_netdev) > > My hope was, the user and group properties would remain the same. > However, this is not the case > > ls -al /media/storage/videos > -rw------- 1 500 staff 244246 2011-11-15 22:15 The economics of > good looks- The line of beauty | The Economist.pdf > > Notice the file is now owned by userID 500? The group is different > too despite being the same files system. Anyone know why this > happened? The user username1 also exist on the samba host, so not > sure why it was not mapped as it was on the FTP server > It's not something I've done myself, but to me it seems that username1 has a diffrent ID on the samba host than the ftp host (and that the samba host has no user with ID 500). That said, it's been years since I've dealt with samba but I'm pretty sure it can be configured to ignore the underlying UNIX permissions on files. Or you could allow a group with an ID that's common on both hosts read access to all the files, and tell Samba to use that group. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 13:24:29 2011 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:24:29 -0500 Subject: do you like C puzzles? do you want to learn libusb? Message-ID: <201111160824.31299.icanprogram@295.ca> I am the facilitator for a 12 year old open source project aimed at bringing QNX style Send/Receive/Reply messaging to Linux users. (http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl). For a while I've been facinated by the possibilities of marrying the SIMPL toolkit to an embedded Linux device produced by a Canadian company in Calgary: Phidgets. (http://www.icanprogram.com/opndrs/phidgets). The current Phidgets library can be generously described as a complex C puzzle. The key to unraveling this puzzle and recasting things in the SIMPL framework involves a move from the current libusb-0.1 to libusb-1.0 ... neither of which I know much about. The Phidgets staff has taken the approach that "if it ain't broke ... don't mess with it" ... so unfortunately we are largely on our own to untangle the currrent code puzzle and recast it in a simpler way. If you like solving C puzzles and want to learn libusb stuff all the while working with an embedded Linux product, don't hesitate to contact me offlist. Alas everyone working on this project will be doing so gratis ... Thanks. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 15:31:26 2011 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:31:26 -0500 Subject: do you like C puzzles? do you want to learn libusb? In-Reply-To: <201111160824.31299.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <201111160824.31299.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <45b3f3ed3c94361e3cc814ff2b9bf29a.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Bob - You've highlighted the problem with the Phidgets devices. They would be much easier to use if they were based on a USB-Com port protocol, using the FTDI chips and drivers. Then the device can be accessed by simple com port commands, which will work from Linux, Mac and Windows. It's a tossup whether it's easier to reverse engineer their software or redesign their hardware ;) I'd vote for the hardware. Peter > I am the facilitator for a 12 year old open source project aimed at > bringing > QNX style Send/Receive/Reply messaging to Linux users. > (http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl). > > For a while I've been facinated by the possibilities of marrying the SIMPL > toolkit to an embedded Linux device produced by a Canadian company in > Calgary: Phidgets. (http://www.icanprogram.com/opndrs/phidgets). > > The current Phidgets library can be generously described as a complex C > puzzle. The key to unraveling this puzzle and recasting things in the > SIMPL > framework involves a move from the current libusb-0.1 to libusb-1.0 ... > neither of which I know much about. The Phidgets staff has taken the > approach that "if it ain't broke ... don't mess with it" ... so > unfortunately > we are largely on our own to untangle the currrent code puzzle and recast > it > in a simpler way. > > If you like solving C puzzles and want to learn libusb stuff all the while > working with an embedded Linux product, don't hesitate to contact me > offlist. Alas everyone working on this project will be doing so gratis > ... > > Thanks. > > bob > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 15:56:45 2011 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:56:45 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: References: <4EC3081F.1000604@alteeve.com> <4EC3BB0D.8080600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20111116155645.GA13319@amber> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 09:07:12AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: > Not everyone sees the junk. So is this my problem, your problem or the > list management software as Len Sorrenson suggests. I see the junk, using mutt and msmtp. Seems like some fancy email readers (e.g. Thunderbird) do some silent filtering, but the junk is really there, either from you are from the list management software. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 16:30:00 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:30:00 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: <20111116155645.GA13319@amber> References: <4EC3081F.1000604@alteeve.com> <4EC3BB0D.8080600@rogers.com> <20111116155645.GA13319@amber> Message-ID: I think it is coming from the time it takes the android device to connect to gmail. Some sort of TR error appends a no carrier message to the string, which then clobbers the footer being applied by the list software, but there is nothing I can do about it for the moment. On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Peter King wrote: > On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 09:07:12AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: > >> Not everyone sees the junk. So is this my problem, your problem or the >> list management software as Len Sorrenson suggests. > > I see the junk, using mutt and msmtp. Seems like some fancy email readers > (e.g. Thunderbird) do some silent filtering, but the junk is really there, > either from you are from the list management software. > > -- > Peter King ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Department of Philosophy > 170 St. George Street #521 > The University of Toronto ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (416)-978-4951 ofc > Toronto, ON ?M5R 2M8 > ? ? ? CANADA > > http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ > > ========================================================================= > GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC ?36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:09:04 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:09:04 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111116170904.GA6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 08:54:43PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > cat simply does not work with all kinds of files, and does not work > reliably with PDFs. I don't see any reason to assume that the "only > two possibilities" are as you assume. cat works fine. It joins chunks of bits together. The PDF format doesn't work with concatenated PDFs though. But still, cat works great on all file types, given it doesn't care what it is, it is just bits. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:10:31 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:10:31 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111116171031.GB6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:15:26PM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > True, but [t]csh shouldn't be used for scripting: I believe you meant to say: "True, but [t]csh shouldn't be used." -- LeN Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:13:22 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:13:22 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111116171322.GC6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 07:20:47PM -0500, Russ wrote: > Sorry, fumbled on a slide keyboard. Heres a link to the oreilly article. The paste buffer dropped the italicised noclobber. > docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN???'?????T????.???)??m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? References: <4EC3B986.9090903@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20111116171557.GD6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 08:24:22AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > I've sent you a private email to you about this, but I'll say it > again here. Your messages include junk at the bottom, as shown > below. Some of your messages are nothing but junk. I don't see > this from anyone else. Yes, the mailing list appends an ascii TLUG signature to the message. Since these message happen to be base64 encoded (why I have no idea, but they are), the ascii being appended results in garbage when you try to decode it as base64 data. So assuming base64 is a valid email encoding (seems to be), then the mailing list is at fault for appending ascii to a non ascii message. The mailing list software should obey the encoding when appending the footer. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:16:36 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:16:36 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: <20111116171322.GC6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111116171322.GC6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 07:20:47PM -0500, Russ wrote: >> Sorry, fumbled on a slide keyboard. Heres a link to the oreilly article. The paste buffer dropped the italicised noclobber. >> docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN ???'?????T??? ?.???)?? m???n????2? ????-???? h?',6??0?+j?^???? > We have got to fix either the mailing list software or your email client. > > Or at least have you 'sign' your messages at the bottom, so that your > signature gets junk appended rather than your message. Good idea, i'll set up a sig file with gmail. I wonder if it is possible to set up one for the device and another for when I use the web client? > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:20:03 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:20:03 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: <20111116171557.GD6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4EC3B986.9090903@rogers.com> <20111116171557.GD6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I'm replying to this to test if the sig file ameliorates the mime problem's I'm encountering with my android device. Thanks for the help Len. On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 08:24:22AM -0500, James Knott wrote: >> I've sent you a private email to you about this, but I'll say it >> again here. ?Your messages include junk at the bottom, as shown >> below. ?Some of your messages are nothing but junk. ?I don't see >> this from anyone else. > > Yes, the mailing list appends an ascii TLUG signature to the message. > Since these message happen to be base64 encoded (why I have no idea, > but they are), the ascii being appended results in garbage when you try > to decode it as base64 data. > > So assuming base64 is a valid email encoding (seems to be), then the > mailing list is at fault for appending ascii to a non ascii message. > The mailing list software should obey the encoding when appending > the footer. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org is trying to fix his broken android. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:21:38 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:21:38 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: References: <4EC3B986.9090903@rogers.com> <20111116171557.GD6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4EC3F122.8050903@rogers.com> Russell Reiter wrote: > I'm replying to this to test if the sig file ameliorates the mime > problem's I'm encountering with my android device. Thanks for the help > Len. > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > >> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 08:24:22AM -0500, James Knott wrote: >> >>> I've sent you a private email to you about this, but I'll say it >>> again here. Your messages include junk at the bottom, as shown >>> below. Some of your messages are nothing but junk. I don't see >>> this from anyone else. >>> >> Yes, the mailing list appends an ascii TLUG signature to the message. >> Since these message happen to be base64 encoded (why I have no idea, >> but they are), the ascii being appended results in garbage when you try >> to decode it as base64 data. >> >> So assuming base64 is a valid email encoding (seems to be), then the >> mailing list is at fault for appending ascii to a non ascii message. >> The mailing list software should obey the encoding when appending >> the footer. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > > > That appears better now. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:27:10 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:27:10 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: References: <4EC3B986.9090903@rogers.com> <20111116171557.GD6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > > rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org is trying to fix his broken android. > Your signature just made me realize something for the first time: Google's "Android" branding is actually a massive case of false advertising -- Google's "androids" are just pocket computers with cell phones attached; they're not even robots, much less humanoid ones! It would be so much cooler if you were actually trying to fix a real broken android... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:27:02 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:27:02 -0500 Subject: Testing Len's footer fix Message-ID: <3n5w6gmpyygg1x0rckobna23.1321464422164@email.android.com> SGVyZXMgdGhlIG9yZWlsbHkgbGluayBhZ2Fpbi4KCmRvY3N0b3JlLm1pay51YS9vcmVsbHkvdW5p eDMvdXB0L2NoNDNfMDYuaHRt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:31:42 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:31:42 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: References: <4EC3081F.1000604@alteeve.com> <4EC3BB0D.8080600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20111116173142.GE6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 09:07:12AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: > Not everyone sees the junk. So is this my problem, your problem or the > list management software as Len Sorrenson suggests. The fault lies with the list management software. The trigger is your email client or it's configuration. Why it uses base64 to send plain text makes no sense. It is more efficient to send plain text instead. It is certainly not the receivers fault (although it does become their problem unfortunately). There is no correct way to decode the invalid message that results when the sender uses base64 and the list management software appends ascii to it. The result is simply invalid. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:31:47 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:31:47 -0500 Subject: Testing Len's footer fix In-Reply-To: <3n5w6gmpyygg1x0rckobna23.1321464422164-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <3n5w6gmpyygg1x0rckobna23.1321464422164@email.android.com> Message-ID: <4EC3F383.4060508@alteeve.com> On 11/16/2011 12:27 PM, Russ wrote: > Heres the oreilly link again. > > docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN???'????T????.???)?m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? References: Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > How to do this? > > I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got > the last page. > > Solutions I find on Google all either refer to Acrobat or some other > Windows software. One I found with Openoffice referred to inserting > the PDF's into an ODT file then exporting, my Libreoffice doesn't have > the ability to insert PDF. > > Any ideas? Well, cat will happily append together whatever sets of files you ask it to append together. Whether or not a particular piece of software can cope with that is a separate question. PDF files have a structure that is intended to allow certain kinds of manipulations, and something like Acrobat or pdfkit may be of assistance in doing that. It's quite entertaining that xpdf and Adobe Reader do different things if you splice two PDFs together using /bin/cat; that tells me that the result of such splicing is somewhat ill-defined, and, furthermore, that trying to use /bin/cat to do this is pretty much a mistake. Just because the results are somewhat predictable doesn't mean it's wise to do it, and, actually, in view that each program turns out to *ignore* different parts of the resulting file shows that they both have undesirable behaviour. And it should be *somewhat* intuitive that it's silly to try to "cat" things together and to expect this to work out. - If I run "cat /bin/perl /bin/python > /bin/perl+python", should I expect to be able to run Perl and Python? - If I run "cat something.doc something.xml something.xls something.ps something.pdf > conglomerate", is that conglomerate meaningful, at all? - If I run "cat archive1.tar.bz2 archive2.tar.bz2 > archives.tar.bz2", can I expect to run tar *or* bunzip2 against this, meaningfully? There was a time at which people were imagining we might do stuff kind of like this; look up the history of OpenDoc, which imagined that we'd be building compound documents. KParts, in KDE, does something kind of similar, but this is one of the famous failed Apple projects. (With the successes, of late, people imagine Apple can Do No Wrong; I daresay that OpenDoc is a fine counterexample.) -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:33:30 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:33:30 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: References: <4EC3B986.9090903@rogers.com> <20111116171557.GD6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111116173330.GF6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:20:03PM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: > I'm replying to this to test if the sig file ameliorates the mime > problem's I'm encountering with my android device. Thanks for the help > Len. Well this mesage was NOT base64 encoded, and hence worked fine. > -- > rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org is trying to fix his broken android. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists No problem at all, when NOT base64. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:34:18 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:34:18 -0500 Subject: Safe IO In-Reply-To: References: <4EC3B986.9090903@rogers.com> <20111116171557.GD6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: In the spirit of Karl Capek, I could link it to my mindstorm robot :-) ?apek's first international success was Rossum?s Univeral Robots, a dystopian work about a bad day at a factory populated with sentient androids. The play was translated into English in 1922, and was being performed in the UK and America by 1923. Throughout the 1920s, ?apek worked in many writing genres, producing both fiction and non-fiction. On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Andrej Marjan wrote: >> rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org is trying to fix his broken android. > > Your signature just made me realize something for the first time: Google's > "Android" branding is actually a massive case of false advertising -- > Google's "androids" are just pocket computers with cell phones attached; > they're not even robots, much less humanoid ones! > > It would be so much cooler if you were actually trying to fix a real broken > android... > -- rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org is trying to fix his broken android. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:34:44 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:34:44 -0500 Subject: Testing Len's footer fix In-Reply-To: <3n5w6gmpyygg1x0rckobna23.1321464422164-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <3n5w6gmpyygg1x0rckobna23.1321464422164@email.android.com> Message-ID: <20111116173444.GG6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:27:02PM -0500, Russ wrote: > Heres the oreilly link again. > > docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN???'?????T????.???)??m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? References: Message-ID: <20111116173758.GH6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:32:40PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > Well, cat will happily append together whatever sets of files you ask > it to append together. > > Whether or not a particular piece of software can cope with that is a > separate question. PDF files have a structure that is intended to > allow certain kinds of manipulations, and something like Acrobat or > pdfkit may be of assistance in doing that. > > It's quite entertaining that xpdf and Adobe Reader do different things > if you splice two PDFs together using /bin/cat; that tells me that the > result of such splicing is somewhat ill-defined, and, furthermore, > that trying to use /bin/cat to do this is pretty much a mistake. Just > because the results are somewhat predictable doesn't mean it's wise to > do it, and, actually, in view that each program turns out to *ignore* > different parts of the resulting file shows that they both have > undesirable behaviour. > > And it should be *somewhat* intuitive that it's silly to try to "cat" > things together and to expect this to work out. > > - If I run "cat /bin/perl /bin/python > /bin/perl+python", should I > expect to be able to run Perl and Python? No. But it should run perl. > - If I run "cat something.doc something.xml something.xls something.ps > something.pdf > conglomerate", is that conglomerate meaningful, at > all? No. > - If I run "cat archive1.tar.bz2 archive2.tar.bz2 > archives.tar.bz2", > can I expect to run tar *or* bunzip2 against this, meaningfully? Yes. Both tar and bzip2 (and gzip for that matter) specificly allow that. > There was a time at which people were imagining we might do stuff kind > of like this; look up the history of OpenDoc, which imagined that we'd > be building compound documents. KParts, in KDE, does something kind > of similar, but this is one of the famous failed Apple projects. > (With the successes, of late, people imagine Apple can Do No Wrong; I > daresay that OpenDoc is a fine counterexample.) Some document formats are just designed to be nicer to deal with. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 17:40:40 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:40:40 -0500 Subject: Testing Len's footer fix In-Reply-To: <20111116173444.GG6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <3n5w6gmpyygg1x0rckobna23.1321464422164@email.android.com> <20111116173444.GG6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I did check gmails known bug list. I didn't see this specific problem but people were experiencing all sorts of errors when importing contact lists. One of the caveats was to ignore "" as by default gmail appends data to the beginning and end of the string. This was for data import and don't know if it really affects the MTA. On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:27:02PM -0500, Russ wrote: >> Heres the oreilly link again. >> >> docstore.mik.ua/orelly/unix3/upt/ch43_06.htmN ???'?????T??? ?.???)?? m???n????2? ????-???? h?',6??0?+j?^???? > I see no signature or anything else that would have fixed it. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org is trying to fix his broken android. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 16 20:20:30 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:20:30 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: <20111116170904.GA6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111116170904.GA6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 08:54:43PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: >> cat simply does not work with all kinds of files, and does not work >> reliably with PDFs. I don't see any reason to assume that the "only >> two possibilities" are as you assume. > > > cat works fine. ?It joins chunks of bits together. ?The PDF format > doesn't work with concatenated PDFs though. ?But still, cat works great > on all file types, given it doesn't care what it is, it is just bits. > > That's pretty pedantic...but I hear you :) -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 17 03:05:08 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:05:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: at and cron annoyingly different Message-ID: I want to run a cron job in a particular directory. Running the crontab(1) command from that directory isn't enough: the script will run with ~ as the current working directory. So I wrote the script file for cron in the directory of interest and told cron to run it. In that script, I used cd `dirname "$0" So the script would change the directory to the one containing the script. That worked well. For unrelated reasons, the script didn't work, so I fixed it up and tried to run it using at(1). - at(1) does remember the working directory in which it was run and it runs the script file with that current working directory. So my tricky cd command wasn't needed for at. - at(1) runs the script with $0 set to /bin/bash so my cd is actually very wrong for at. I don't want /bin as the working directory. All this I figured out by debugging. Since the runs were not frequent (once a day) debugging was stretched out. Surely these related commands could converge so that differences between scripts could be minimized. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 17 04:03:27 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 23:03:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: at and cron annoyingly different In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Nov 2011, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I want to run a cron job in a particular directory. Running the > crontab(1) command from that directory isn't enough: the script will > run with ~ as the current working directory. > > So I wrote the script file for cron in the directory of interest and > told cron to run it. In that script, I used > cd `dirname "$0" > So the script would change the directory to the one containing the > script. That worked well. > > For unrelated reasons, the script didn't work, so I fixed it up and > tried to run it using at(1). > > - at(1) does remember the working directory in which it was run and it > runs the script file with that current working directory. So my > tricky cd command wasn't needed for at. > > - at(1) runs the script with $0 set to /bin/bash so my cd is actually > very wrong for at. I don't want /bin as the working directory. > > All this I figured out by debugging. Since the runs were not frequent > (once a day) debugging was stretched out. > > Surely these related commands could converge so that differences > between scripts could be minimized. The two commands are very different. Crontab does not run a command; it inserts a command into a file which is later read by cron. Each line in a crontab file could have been entered when in a different directory; that information is not stored in the file. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 17 16:15:55 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:15:55 -0500 Subject: at and cron annoyingly different In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111117161555.GI6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 10:05:08PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I want to run a cron job in a particular directory. Running the > crontab(1) command from that directory isn't enough: the script will > run with ~ as the current working directory. > > So I wrote the script file for cron in the directory of interest and > told cron to run it. In that script, I used > cd `dirname "$0" > So the script would change the directory to the one containing the > script. That worked well. > > For unrelated reasons, the script didn't work, so I fixed it up and > tried to run it using at(1). > > - at(1) does remember the working directory in which it was run and it > runs the script file with that current working directory. So my > tricky cd command wasn't needed for at. > > - at(1) runs the script with $0 set to /bin/bash so my cd is actually > very wrong for at. I don't want /bin as the working directory. Reading the man page for bash, I don't quite see how at could do that. > All this I figured out by debugging. Since the runs were not frequent > (once a day) debugging was stretched out. > > Surely these related commands could converge so that differences > between scripts could be minimized. By design cron runs with a minimal well known environment. at commands by design are supposed to inherit everything from the environment where they were scheduled from. They are very very different and have very different purposes. They are not related at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 17 19:15:54 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:15:54 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: Lennart I appreciate your sense of humor, as reflected in this response. I must however point out a semantic error in one of your replys regarding cat and its use. It was your initial response in which you report certain file types as being cat compatable which was the pedantic one. It was the other one which was straightforward and easy to understand. Please stop spoon feeding the Trolls. It just makes them angry and confused. Also, it strips them of the ability to grok and grep for themselves should they be released to deal with the wild on their own. In the words of Stephen Fry: If you're the kind of person who insists on this or that 'correct' use... abandon your pedantry as I did mine. Dive into the open flowing waters and leave the stagnant canals be... Above all, let there be pleasure!" lsorense at csclub.uwaterloo.ca wrote: >On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 04:14:03PM -0500, Russ wrote: >> Unless cat is aliased to do something else, like clobber on > and append on >> >> >> "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: >> >> >On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Russell Reiter wrote: >> > >> >> Someone else had posted that: cat file1.pdf > out.pdf cat file2.pdf >> >>>> out.pdf cat file3.pdf>>out.pdf worked and they were able to see all >> >> three PDF pages. Before anyone jumps on this I know this is not the >> >> same as the following. >> >> >> >> cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf>out.pdf did not work, even though >> >> the man page says it should. >> > >> >cat file1.pdf > out.pdf; cat file2.pdf >> out.pdf; cat file3.pdf >> out.pdf >> > >> > is exactly the same as >> > >> >cat file1.pdf file2.pdf file3.pdf > out.pdf >> > >> > Both do exactly what the man page says they should. >> > >> > Whether is works with any particular type of file depends on the >> > file structure, not on the cat command. >> > >> >-- >> > Chris F.A. Johnson, >> > Author: >> > Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) >> > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) >> >-- >> >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> N???'?????T????.???)??m???n????2?????-????h?',6??0?+j?^???? >Oh great, another base64 encoded message. :) > >-- >Len Sorensen >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 17 19:22:00 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:22:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011, Russ wrote: > In the words of Stephen Fry: > > If you're the kind of person who insists on this or that 'correct' use... abandon your pedantry as I did mine. Dive into the open flowing waters and leave the stagnant canals be... Above all, let there be pleasure!" "Pedant is a word applied to those who value accuracy by those who don't." -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 17 19:46:16 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:46:16 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: Wikipedia says it used to mean teacher and that its common use today, is to mean someone overly concerned with academic language in explanations specifically in order to show off their knowledge of the subject matter. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedant#section_1 "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: >On Thu, 17 Nov 2011, Russ wrote: > >> In the words of Stephen Fry: >> >> If you're the kind of person who insists on this or that 'correct' use... abandon your pedantry as I did mine. Dive into the open flowing waters and leave the stagnant canals be... Above all, let there be pleasure!" > > "Pedant is a word applied to those who value accuracy by those who don't." > >-- > Chris F.A. Johnson, > Author: > Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 18 02:13:41 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:13:41 -0500 Subject: at and cron annoyingly different In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111118021341.GA4410@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 10:05:08PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > - at(1) runs the script with $0 set to /bin/bash so my cd is actually > very wrong for at. I don't want /bin as the working directory. Are you sure? Because $0 for a shell script is the filename of that script. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 18 02:17:15 2011 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:17:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1321582635.34403.YahooMailNeo@web88605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> How to do this? I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got the last page. Thomas, You can't concatenate PDF files, but you can concatenate PS (PostScript) files ("man pdf2ps" and "man ps2pdf", for details) . Converting from one to the other and back is quite trivial, using those two commands. I leave the rest up to you, sir, -David PS: To everyone else: I'm surprised in this whole long thread no one else has mentioned this! Shame on you! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 18 07:04:37 2011 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 02:04:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: at and cron annoyingly different In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Nov 2011, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I want to run a cron job in a particular directory. Running the > crontab(1) command from that directory isn't enough: the script will > run with ~ as the current working directory. > > So I wrote the script file for cron in the directory of interest and > told cron to run it. In that script, I used > cd `dirname "$0" > So the script would change the directory to the one containing the > script. That worked well. > > For unrelated reasons, the script didn't work, so I fixed it up and > tried to run it using at(1). > > - at(1) does remember the working directory in which it was run and it > runs the script file with that current working directory. So my > tricky cd command wasn't needed for at. > > - at(1) runs the script with $0 set to /bin/bash so my cd is actually > very wrong for at. I don't want /bin as the working directory. > > All this I figured out by debugging. Since the runs were not frequent > (once a day) debugging was stretched out. > > Surely these related commands could converge so that differences > between scripts could be minimized. They do work the same for '$0'. These work fine with `dirname "$0"` inside a script which yields '/tmp': echo /tmp/tmp1.sh | at now echo /tmp/tmp1.sh | batch And this crontab entry: * * * * * echo "dirname dollar0 is "`dirname $0` produces this mail: dirname dollar0 is /bin Of course, the environments are different; perhaps a 'cron-once' command would be good. My pet peeve is to have better integration between cron and anacron. And how about a simple method to have cron use UTC, instead of localtime with its politically arbitrary daylight saving time rules? -- Eric. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 18 09:08:54 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 04:08:54 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one Message-ID: <2r2drdhpuud6v1sf4llxmggq.1321606878487@email.android.com> You can concatenate PDF files, do a byte count after the action. The data will be there. It's just that PDF format was initially developed in an effort by Adobe to carve out their own propritary chunk of the MS DOS market. Catting the files and piping them through sed to remove unnecessary DOS eof markers and whatever other crap will work so that any unsophisticated parser will display the content. Apparantly more advanced ones can deal with the mess. DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: >How to do this? > > >I tried cat file1 file2 file2 > file, but that didn't work, I only got >the last page. > >Thomas, > >You can't concatenate PDF files, but you can concatenate PS (PostScript) files ("man pdf2ps" and "man ps2pdf", for details) . Converting from one to the other and back is quite trivial, using those two commands. I leave the rest up to you, sir, > >-David > >PS: To everyone else: I'm surprised in this whole long thread no one else has mentioned this! Shame on you! From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 18 13:12:46 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:12:46 -0500 Subject: joining multiple PDFs into one In-Reply-To: <1321582635.34403.YahooMailNeo-cTa2G3qg0ZGvYMxfvLqCK1Z8N9CAUha/QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1321582635.34403.YahooMailNeo@web88605.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4EC659CE.5000809@gmail.com> On 11-11-17 21:17 , DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: > > You can't concatenate PDF files, but you can concatenate PS (PostScript) > files ("man pdf2ps" and "man ps2pdf", for details). Except for very simple cases, you can't. PostScript is a very complex stack-based programming language. There's a recommended program structure (DSC) that helps with feature extraction/insertion, but doesn't guarantee that programs can be joined and still work. > Converting from one > to the other and back is quite trivial, using those two commands. I'm a former prepress code monkey. It's not remotely trivial, and I strongly advise against repeat PS <=> PDF conversions. It's not a lossless process; font encoding is often lost/mangled, and weird display errors can creep in. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 18 14:48:00 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:48:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: at and cron annoyingly different In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org | These work fine with `dirname "$0"` inside a script which yields '/tmp': | echo /tmp/tmp1.sh | at now | echo /tmp/tmp1.sh | batch Try at -f /tmp/tmp1.sh now You will get /bin. At least I do. And I was surprised. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 18 14:56:41 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:56:41 -0500 Subject: old school cats Message-ID: Cat without sed is kind of like pancakes without syrup in a POSIX manner of compliance. Some unix components are hardwired to do one thing and do it as well as possible. Neither cat nor sed are interactive as ed is. With line based editing you are allowed to g/re/p on a file in order to TRanslate from one format to another. Ghostscript can do it but is lossy as mentioned. Example from the internet. gs -q -sPAPERSIZE=letter - dNOPAUSE -dBATCH- sDEVICE=pdfwrite - sOutputFile=out.pdf Heck, you could tac the file use dd to skip the eof bytes, tac it again and see what happens. But you cannot under normal circumstances cat file1 file2>file2. No responsible sysadmin will allow it regardless of POSIX standard. UNIX is a set of student hacks glued together by god knows what, but there seems to be enough wiggle room for everybody. From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 19 03:34:13 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:34:13 -0500 Subject: Sonne coverage on OpenFile Message-ID: http://toronto.openfile.ca/toronto/text/lies-and-videotape-byron-sonne-trial-continues -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 19 21:28:47 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:28:47 -0500 Subject: phone debugging Message-ID: I'm trying to trace my trailing android garbage. This email is sent from the device using Dolphin Mini to log into the gmail website, instead of using the app bundled in the core. I'm thinking that the garbage is the result of a stack overrun by the mta and that is what is clobbering the tlug footer. Any trailing mess? -- rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org About me: My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. Things I occupy my time with: Hacking Linux with a white hat on. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 19 21:38:31 2011 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:38:31 +0000 Subject: phone debugging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No mess - looks good. Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:28:47 -0500 Subject: [TLUG]: phone debugging From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org I'm trying to trace my trailing android garbage. This email is sent from the device using Dolphin Mini to log into the gmail website, instead of using the app bundled in the core. I'm thinking that the garbage is the result of a stack overrun by the mta and that is what is clobbering the tlug footer. Any trailing mess? -- rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org About me: My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. Things I occupy my time with: Hacking Linux with a white hat on. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 19 22:00:18 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:18 -0500 Subject: phone debugging Message-ID: Tlug footer seems to be missing tho. I cant for the life of me figure why any mua would encode a plain text message in a mime format. Here's a link via the paste buffer. They're always noisey from the gmail app. This app is running on froyo 2.2 geekmind.net/2011/01/shortcuts-to-improve-your-bash-zsh.html john.moniz at sympatico.ca wrote: > >No mess - looks good. > >Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:28:47 -0500 >Subject: [TLUG]: phone debugging >From: rreiter91 at gmail.com >To: tlug at ss.org > >I'm trying to trace my trailing android garbage. This email is sent from the device using Dolphin Mini to log into the gmail website, instead of using the app bundled in the core. >I'm thinking that the garbage is the result of a stack overrun by the mta and that is what is clobbering the tlug footer. > > >Any trailing mess? > >-- >rreiter91 at gmail.com >About me: >My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. >Things I occupy my time with: >Hacking Linux with a white hat on. > From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 19 22:03:22 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:03:22 -0500 Subject: phone debugging Message-ID: I'm trying to trace my trailing android garbage. This email is sent from the device using Dolphin Mini to log into the gmail website, instead of using the app bundled in the core. I'm thinking that the garbage is the result of a stack overrun by the mta and that is what is clobbering the tlug footer. Any trailing mess? -- rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org About me: My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. Things I occupy my time with: Hacking Linux with a white hat on. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 19 22:07:02 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:07:02 -0500 Subject: phone debugging Message-ID: I'm trying to trace my trailing android garbage. This email is sent from the device using Dolphin Mini to log into the gmail website, instead of using the app bundled in the core. I'm thinking that the garbage is the result of a stack overrun by the mta and that is what is clobbering the tlug footer. Any trailing mess? -- rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org About me: My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. Things I occupy my time with: Hacking Linux with a white hat on. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 02:39:19 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:39:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: phone debugging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The message quoted below is the only one so far today with garbage. Notice that something on my system RedClaw converted base64 to 8bit. The other messages were multipart MIME encoded. Each had a plain text and an HTML part. And then the signature was tacked on (by TLUG) but was invisible in my browser. Oh, and the DKIM failed. But that could well be my fault: I have internal forwarding by a Mail Transfer Agent which does not deal with DKIM. Does anyone else notice DKIM failure? | Return-Path: | X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on redclaw.mimosa.com | X-Spam-Level: | X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, | T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 | Received: from gw-d.mimosa.com (redgate.mimosa.com [192.139.70.81]) | by redclaw.mimosa.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id pAJM0YGh023713 | for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:34 -0500 | Received: from rock.ss.org (asbestos.ss.org [206.108.5.1]) | by gw-d.mimosa.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id pAJM0YAR004362 | for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:34 -0500 | Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix) | id 1DEF7A2C01; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:30 -0500 (EST) | Delivered-To: route-tlug-JcsaL2wEbRNAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org | Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54) | id 149E2A2C07; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:30 -0500 (EST) | X-Original-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Delivered-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; | d=gmail.com; s=gamma; | h=date:subject:message-id:from:to:content-type | :content-transfer-encoding; | bh=GUhdXmmrdZXCkKxeqUTnw2wY6cAlAQmfhf8bQ0ssNLQ=; | b=LRtHWklh7Ws22SX+ov2GHRB+YquTjNrsrbKci/ZqklYYKTBUbY3PDZBE++FHRW2c36 | jDMULee5aDKUC7LqKvIYT2vB7EHJG3d+/aNlqTABs0Q27c3dg/69W+mylVvBEjV/9R3h | xAeYsS6rxHWY0mDj+VvDxv2s9z69AKdbuvh/4= | Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:18 -0500 | Subject: RE: [TLUG]: phone debugging | Message-ID: | From: Russ | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 | Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Precedence: list | Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit | X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by redclaw.mimosa.com id | pAJM0YGh023713 | | Tlug footer seems to be missing tho. I cant for the life of me figure why any mua would encode a plain text message in a mime format. Here's a link via the paste buffer. They're always noisey from the gmail app. | | This app is running on froyo 2.2 | | geekmind.net/2011/01/shortcuts-to-improve-your-bash-zsh.html | | john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: | | > | >No mess - looks good. | > | >Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:28:47 -0500 | >Subject: [TLUG]: phone debugging | >From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org | >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | > | >I'm trying to trace my trailing android garbage. This email is sent from the device using Dolphin Mini to log into the gmail website, instead of using the app bundled in the core. | >I'm thinking that the garbage is the result of a stack overrun by the mta and that is what is clobbering the tlug footer. | > | > | >Any trailing mess? | > | >-- | >rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org | >About me: | >My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. | >Things I occupy my time with: | >Hacking Linux with a white hat on. | > ???y:+?{h.)??K ??????1?x,?m???????????A?z?????.)???????6????????{Z0??(??z0??I at R ?????? Z????????"????)??X? | From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 14:28:46 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 09:28:46 -0500 Subject: phone debugging Message-ID: I got disracted in what I was attempting to figure out and sent the last email from the droid. It appears that gmail from the web app obeys the plain text request entirely, the droid does not. I wonder if this is in part due to the ARM internals and VLIW capabilities of the processor. With bandwith, storage and other factors taken into account it makes sense that a small device such as this one could choose to encode text as multi part mime. Would this make it easier to packet switch on 3G networks? I'm going to send this and then reset gmail to send utf-8 via the web conf page. I added more text to the sig for my own backtrace purposes. On 11/19/11, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The message quoted below is the only one so far today with garbage. > > Notice that something on my system RedClaw converted base64 to 8bit. > > The other messages were multipart MIME encoded. Each had a plain text and > an HTML part. And then the signature was tacked on (by TLUG) but was > invisible in my browser. > > Oh, and the DKIM failed. But that could well be my fault: I have internal > forwarding by a Mail Transfer Agent which does not deal with DKIM. > > Does anyone else notice DKIM failure? > > | Return-Path: > | X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on > redclaw.mimosa.com > | X-Spam-Level: > | X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, > | T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 > | Received: from gw-d.mimosa.com (redgate.mimosa.com [192.139.70.81]) > | by redclaw.mimosa.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id pAJM0YGh023713 > | for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:34 -0500 > | Received: from rock.ss.org (asbestos.ss.org [206.108.5.1]) > | by gw-d.mimosa.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id pAJM0YAR004362 > | for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:34 -0500 > | Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix) > | id 1DEF7A2C01; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:30 -0500 (EST) > | Delivered-To: route-tlug-JcsaL2wEbRNAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org > | Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54) > | id 149E2A2C07; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:30 -0500 (EST) > | X-Original-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > | Delivered-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > | DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; > | d=gmail.com; s=gamma; > | h=date:subject:message-id:from:to:content-type > | :content-transfer-encoding; > | bh=GUhdXmmrdZXCkKxeqUTnw2wY6cAlAQmfhf8bQ0ssNLQ=; > | > b=LRtHWklh7Ws22SX+ov2GHRB+YquTjNrsrbKci/ZqklYYKTBUbY3PDZBE++FHRW2c36 > | > jDMULee5aDKUC7LqKvIYT2vB7EHJG3d+/aNlqTABs0Q27c3dg/69W+mylVvBEjV/9R3h > | xAeYsS6rxHWY0mDj+VvDxv2s9z69AKdbuvh/4= > | Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:18 -0500 > | Subject: RE: [TLUG]: phone debugging > | Message-ID: > | From: Russ > | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > | Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > | Precedence: list > | Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > | Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > | X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by redclaw.mimosa.com id > | pAJM0YGh023713 > | > | Tlug footer seems to be missing tho. I cant for the life of me figure why > any mua would encode a plain text message in a mime format. Here's a link > via the paste buffer. They're always noisey from the gmail app. > | > | This app is running on froyo 2.2 > | > | geekmind.net/2011/01/shortcuts-to-improve-your-bash-zsh.html > | > | john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > | > | > > | >No mess - looks good. > | > > | >Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:28:47 -0500 > | >Subject: [TLUG]: phone debugging > | >From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > | >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > | > > | >I'm trying to trace my trailing android garbage. This email is sent from > the device using Dolphin Mini to log into the gmail website, instead of > using the app bundled in the core. > | >I'm thinking that the garbage is the result of a stack overrun by the mta > and that is what is clobbering the tlug footer. > | > > | > > | >Any trailing mess? > | > > | >-- > | >rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > | >About me: > | >My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. > | >Things I occupy my time with: > | >Hacking Linux with a white hat on. > | > ???y:+?{h.)??K ??????1?x,? m?????? > ?????A?z?????.)???????6????????{ [zZ0??(??z0??I at R ?????? > Z????????"????)??X? > | -- rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org About me: My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. Things I occupy my time with: Hacking Linux with a white hat on. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 15:06:49 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 10:06:49 -0500 Subject: phone debugging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC91789.4070004@rogers.com> Russell Reiter wrote: > I got disracted in what I was attempting to figure out and sent the > last email from the droid. It appears that gmail from the web app > obeys the plain text request entirely, the droid does not. > > I wonder if this is in part due to the ARM internals and VLIW > capabilities of the processor. With bandwith, storage and other > factors taken into account it makes sense that a small device such as > this one could choose to encode text as multi part mime. > > Would this make it easier to packet switch on 3G networks? > > Applications and transport are 2 completely different areas of the protocol stack. One should have absolutely no effect on the other. While TCP/IP doesn't match it exactly, read up on the OSI stack, to understand how the various layers provide transparent separation for this sort of thing. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/OSI_model -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 16:53:56 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 11:53:56 -0500 Subject: phone debugging Message-ID: this is from my nexus s, with a signature which follows. running 2.3.6. test Russell Reiter wrote: >I got disracted in what I was attempting to figure out and sent the >last email from the droid. It appears that gmail from the web app >obeys the plain text request entirely, the droid does not. > >I wonder if this is in part due to the ARM internals and VLIW >capabilities of the processor. With bandwith, storage and other >factors taken into account it makes sense that a small device such as >this one could choose to encode text as multi part mime. > >Would this make it easier to packet switch on 3G networks? > >I'm going to send this and then reset gmail to send utf-8 via the web >conf page. > >I added more text to the sig for my own backtrace purposes. > > >On 11/19/11, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> The message quoted below is the only one so far today with garbage. >> >> Notice that something on my system RedClaw converted base64 to 8bit. >> >> The other messages were multipart MIME encoded. Each had a plain text and >> an HTML part. And then the signature was tacked on (by TLUG) but was >> invisible in my browser. >> >> Oh, and the DKIM failed. But that could well be my fault: I have internal >> forwarding by a Mail Transfer Agent which does not deal with DKIM. >> >> Does anyone else notice DKIM failure? >> >> | Return-Path: >> | X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on >> redclaw.mimosa.com >> | X-Spam-Level: >> | X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, >> | T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 >> | Received: from gw-d.mimosa.com (redgate.mimosa.com [192.139.70.81]) >> | by redclaw.mimosa.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id pAJM0YGh023713 >> | for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:34 -0500 >> | Received: from rock.ss.org (asbestos.ss.org [206.108.5.1]) >> | by gw-d.mimosa.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id pAJM0YAR004362 >> | for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:34 -0500 >> | Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix) >> | id 1DEF7A2C01; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:30 -0500 (EST) >> | Delivered-To: route-tlug at rock.ss.org >> | Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54) >> | id 149E2A2C07; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:30 -0500 (EST) >> | X-Original-To: tlug at ss.org >> | Delivered-To: tlug at ss.org >> | DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; >> | d=gmail.com; s=gamma; >> | h=date:subject:message-id:from:to:content-type >> | :content-transfer-encoding; >> | bh=GUhdXmmrdZXCkKxeqUTnw2wY6cAlAQmfhf8bQ0ssNLQ=; >> | >> b=LRtHWklh7Ws22SX+ov2GHRB+YquTjNrsrbKci/ZqklYYKTBUbY3PDZBE++FHRW2c36 >> | >> jDMULee5aDKUC7LqKvIYT2vB7EHJG3d+/aNlqTABs0Q27c3dg/69W+mylVvBEjV/9R3h >> | xAeYsS6rxHWY0mDj+VvDxv2s9z69AKdbuvh/4= >> | Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:18 -0500 >> | Subject: RE: [TLUG]: phone debugging >> | Message-ID: >> | From: Russ >> | To: tlug at ss.org >> | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> | Sender: owner-tlug at ss.org >> | Precedence: list >> | Reply-To: tlug at ss.org >> | Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> | X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by redclaw.mimosa.com id >> | pAJM0YGh023713 >> | >> | Tlug footer seems to be missing tho. I cant for the life of me figure why >> any mua would encode a plain text message in a mime format. Here's a link >> via the paste buffer. They're always noisey from the gmail app. >> | >> | This app is running on froyo 2.2 >> | >> | geekmind.net/2011/01/shortcuts-to-improve-your-bash-zsh.html >> | >> | john.moniz at sympatico.ca wrote: >> | >> | > >> | >No mess - looks good. >> | > >> | >Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:28:47 -0500 >> | >Subject: [TLUG]: phone debugging >> | >From: rreiter91 at gmail.com >> | >To: tlug at ss.org >> | > >> | >I'm trying to trace my trailing android garbage. This email is sent from >> the device using Dolphin Mini to log into the gmail website, instead of >> using the app bundled in the core. >> | >I'm thinking that the garbage is the result of a stack overrun by the mta >> and that is what is clobbering the tlug footer. >> | > >> | > >> | >Any trailing mess? >> | > >> | >-- >> | >rreiter91 at gmail.com >> | >About me: >> | >My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. >> | >Things I occupy my time with: >> | >Hacking Linux with a white hat on. >> | > ???y:+?{h.)??K ??????1?x,? m?????? >> ?????A?z?????.)???????6????????{ [zZ0??(??z0??I at R ?????? >> Z????????"????)??X? >> | > > >-- >rreiter91 at gmail.com >About me: >My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. >Things I occupy my time with: >Hacking Linux with a white hat on. >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 17:28:37 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 12:28:37 -0500 Subject: phone debugging Message-ID: <32u7euuv9txfg54lptyxcbl8.1321810117241@email.android.com> This is from my device prefered gmail app. Changed my sig. Got all you quoted but didn't see your sig. Jamon Camisso wrote: >this is from my nexus s, with a signature which follows. running 2.3.6. >test > >Russell Reiter wrote: > >>I got disracted in what I was attempting to figure out and sent the >>last email from the droid. It appears that gmail from the web app >>obeys the plain text request entirely, the droid does not. >> >>I wonder if this is in part due to the ARM internals and VLIW >>capabilities of the processor. With bandwith, storage and other >>factors taken into account it makes sense that a small device such as >>this one could choose to encode text as multi part mime. >> >>Would this make it easier to packet switch on 3G networks? >> >>I'm going to send this and then reset gmail to send utf-8 via the web >>conf page. >> >>I added more text to the sig for my own backtrace purposes. >> >> >>On 11/19/11, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >>> The message quoted below is the only one so far today with garbage. >>> >>> Notice that something on my system RedClaw converted base64 to 8bit. >>> >>> The other messages were multipart MIME encoded. Each had a plain text and >>> an HTML part. And then the signature was tacked on (by TLUG) but was >>> invisible in my browser. >>> >>> Oh, and the DKIM failed. But that could well be my fault: I have internal >>> forwarding by a Mail Transfer Agent which does not deal with DKIM. >>> >>> Does anyone else notice DKIM failure? >>> >>> | Return-Path: >>> | X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on >>> redclaw.mimosa.com >>> | X-Spam-Level: >>> | X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, >>> | T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 >>> | Received: from gw-d.mimosa.com (redgate.mimosa.com [192.139.70.81]) >>> | by redclaw.mimosa.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id pAJM0YGh023713 >>> | for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:34 -0500 >>> | Received: from rock.ss.org (asbestos.ss.org [206.108.5.1]) >>> | by gw-d.mimosa.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id pAJM0YAR004362 >>> | for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:34 -0500 >>> | Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix) >>> | id 1DEF7A2C01; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:30 -0500 (EST) >>> | Delivered-To: route-tlug at rock.ss.org >>> | Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54) >>> | id 149E2A2C07; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:30 -0500 (EST) >>> | X-Original-To: tlug at ss.org >>> | Delivered-To: tlug at ss.org >>> | DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; >>> | d=gmail.com; s=gamma; >>> | h=date:subject:message-id:from:to:content-type >>> | :content-transfer-encoding; >>> | bh=GUhdXmmrdZXCkKxeqUTnw2wY6cAlAQmfhf8bQ0ssNLQ=; >>> | >>> b=LRtHWklh7Ws22SX+ov2GHRB+YquTjNrsrbKci/ZqklYYKTBUbY3PDZBE++FHRW2c36 >>> | >>> jDMULee5aDKUC7LqKvIYT2vB7EHJG3d+/aNlqTABs0Q27c3dg/69W+mylVvBEjV/9R3h >>> | xAeYsS6rxHWY0mDj+VvDxv2s9z69AKdbuvh/4= >>> | Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:18 -0500 >>> | Subject: RE: [TLUG]: phone debugging >>> | Message-ID: >>> | From: Russ >>> | To: tlug at ss.org >>> | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>> | Sender: owner-tlug at ss.org >>> | Precedence: list >>> | Reply-To: tlug at ss.org >>> | Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>> | X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by redclaw.mimosa.com id >>> | pAJM0YGh023713 >>> | >>> | Tlug footer seems to be missing tho. I cant for the life of me figure why >>> any mua would encode a plain text message in a mime format. Here's a link >>> via the paste buffer. They're always noisey from the gmail app. >>> | >>> | This app is running on froyo 2.2 >>> | >>> | geekmind.net/2011/01/shortcuts-to-improve-your-bash-zsh.html >>> | >>> | john.moniz at sympatico.ca wrote: >>> | >>> | > >>> | >No mess - looks good. >>> | > >>> | >Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:28:47 -0500 >>> | >Subject: [TLUG]: phone debugging >>> | >From: rreiter91 at gmail.com >>> | >To: tlug at ss.org >>> | > >>> | >I'm trying to trace my trailing android garbage. This email is sent from >>> the device using Dolphin Mini to log into the gmail website, instead of >>> using the app bundled in the core. >>> | >I'm thinking that the garbage is the result of a stack overrun by the mta >>> and that is what is clobbering the tlug footer. >>> | > >>> | > >>> | >Any trailing mess? >>> | > >>> | >-- >>> | >rreiter91 at gmail.com >>> | >About me: >>> | >My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. >>> | >Things I occupy my time with: >>> | >Hacking Linux with a white hat on. >>> | > ???y:+?{h.)??K ??????1?x,? m?????? >>> ?????A?z?????.)???????6????????{ [zZ0??(??z0??I at R ?????? >>> Z????????"????)??X? >>> | >> >> >>-- >>rreiter91 at gmail.com >>About me: >>My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. >>Things I occupy my time with: >>Hacking Linux with a white hat on. >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 17:26:46 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 12:26:46 -0500 Subject: phone debugging Message-ID: another test, this with logcat running to capture some debugging output test Jamon Camisso wrote: >this is from my nexus s, with a signature which follows. running 2.3.6. >test > >Russell Reiter wrote: > >>I got disracted in what I was attempting to figure out and sent the >>last email from the droid. It appears that gmail from the web app >>obeys the plain text request entirely, the droid does not. >> >>I wonder if this is in part due to the ARM internals and VLIW >>capabilities of the processor. With bandwith, storage and other >>factors taken into account it makes sense that a small device such as >>this one could choose to encode text as multi part mime. >> >>Would this make it easier to packet switch on 3G networks? >> >>I'm going to send this and then reset gmail to send utf-8 via the web >>conf page. >> >>I added more text to the sig for my own backtrace purposes. >> >> >>On 11/19/11, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >>> The message quoted below is the only one so far today with garbage. >>> >>> Notice that something on my system RedClaw converted base64 to 8bit. >>> >>> The other messages were multipart MIME encoded. Each had a plain text and >>> an HTML part. And then the signature was tacked on (by TLUG) but was >>> invisible in my browser. >>> >>> Oh, and the DKIM failed. But that could well be my fault: I have internal >>> forwarding by a Mail Transfer Agent which does not deal with DKIM. >>> >>> Does anyone else notice DKIM failure? >>> >>> | Return-Path: >>> | X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on >>> redclaw.mimosa.com >>> | X-Spam-Level: >>> | X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, >>> | T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 >>> | Received: from gw-d.mimosa.com (redgate.mimosa.com [192.139.70.81]) >>> | by redclaw.mimosa.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id pAJM0YGh023713 >>> | for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:34 -0500 >>> | Received: from rock.ss.org (asbestos.ss.org [206.108.5.1]) >>> | by gw-d.mimosa.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id pAJM0YAR004362 >>> | for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:34 -0500 >>> | Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix) >>> | id 1DEF7A2C01; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:30 -0500 (EST) >>> | Delivered-To: route-tlug at rock.ss.org >>> | Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54) >>> | id 149E2A2C07; Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:30 -0500 (EST) >>> | X-Original-To: tlug at ss.org >>> | Delivered-To: tlug at ss.org >>> | DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; >>> | d=gmail.com; s=gamma; >>> | h=date:subject:message-id:from:to:content-type >>> | :content-transfer-encoding; >>> | bh=GUhdXmmrdZXCkKxeqUTnw2wY6cAlAQmfhf8bQ0ssNLQ=; >>> | >>> b=LRtHWklh7Ws22SX+ov2GHRB+YquTjNrsrbKci/ZqklYYKTBUbY3PDZBE++FHRW2c36 >>> | >>> jDMULee5aDKUC7LqKvIYT2vB7EHJG3d+/aNlqTABs0Q27c3dg/69W+mylVvBEjV/9R3h >>> | xAeYsS6rxHWY0mDj+VvDxv2s9z69AKdbuvh/4= >>> | Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:00:18 -0500 >>> | Subject: RE: [TLUG]: phone debugging >>> | Message-ID: >>> | From: Russ >>> | To: tlug at ss.org >>> | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>> | Sender: owner-tlug at ss.org >>> | Precedence: list >>> | Reply-To: tlug at ss.org >>> | Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>> | X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by redclaw.mimosa.com id >>> | pAJM0YGh023713 >>> | >>> | Tlug footer seems to be missing tho. I cant for the life of me figure why >>> any mua would encode a plain text message in a mime format. Here's a link >>> via the paste buffer. They're always noisey from the gmail app. >>> | >>> | This app is running on froyo 2.2 >>> | >>> | geekmind.net/2011/01/shortcuts-to-improve-your-bash-zsh.html >>> | >>> | john.moniz at sympatico.ca wrote: >>> | >>> | > >>> | >No mess - looks good. >>> | > >>> | >Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:28:47 -0500 >>> | >Subject: [TLUG]: phone debugging >>> | >From: rreiter91 at gmail.com >>> | >To: tlug at ss.org >>> | > >>> | >I'm trying to trace my trailing android garbage. This email is sent from >>> the device using Dolphin Mini to log into the gmail website, instead of >>> using the app bundled in the core. >>> | >I'm thinking that the garbage is the result of a stack overrun by the mta >>> and that is what is clobbering the tlug footer. >>> | > >>> | > >>> | >Any trailing mess? >>> | > >>> | >-- >>> | >rreiter91 at gmail.com >>> | >About me: >>> | >My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. >>> | >Things I occupy my time with: >>> | >Hacking Linux with a white hat on. >>> | > ???y:+?{h.)??K ??????1?x,? m?????? >>> ?????A?z?????.)???????6????????{ [zZ0??(??z0??I at R ?????? >>> Z????????"????)??X? >>> | >> >> >>-- >>rreiter91 at gmail.com >>About me: >>My birthday is October 15 th. I'm a Libra. >>Things I occupy my time with: >>Hacking Linux with a white hat on. >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 17:59:56 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 12:59:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: phone debugging In-Reply-To: <32u7euuv9txfg54lptyxcbl8.1321810117241-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <32u7euuv9txfg54lptyxcbl8.1321810117241@email.android.com> Message-ID: Both Jamon and Russ sent messages in base 64 with the TLUG crap tacked on the end, in plain ASCII. That's the fundamental problem. My machine RedClaw's MTA converted it them to 8bit: | X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by redclaw.mimosa.com id | pAKGsNT1003313 (If the TLUG MTA did that conversion, before tacking on the footer, then all would be well.) Both said: | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 | Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't know where these lines are generated. I suspect the second one was generated by my MTA when it changed the encoding. Neither message was multi-part MIME (this time). Bits from Jamon's message: | Message-ID: | From: Jamon Camisso | >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists | ???y:+?{h.)??K ??????1?x,?m???????????A?z?????.)???????6????????{Z0??(??z0??I at R ?????? Z????????"????)??X? Bits from Russ' message: | Message-ID: <32u7euuv9txfg54lptyxcbl8.1321810117241-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org> | From: Russ | >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists | ???y:+?{h.)??K ??????1?x,?m???????????A?z?????.)???????6????????{Z0??(??z0??I at R ?????? Z????????"????)??X? From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 18:01:37 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:01:37 -0500 Subject: phone debugging In-Reply-To: <32u7euuv9txfg54lptyxcbl8.1321810117241-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <32u7euuv9txfg54lptyxcbl8.1321810117241@email.android.com> Message-ID: <4EC94081.50503@utoronto.ca> On 11/20/2011 12:28 PM, Russ wrote: > This is from my device prefered gmail app. Changed my sig. Got all you quoted but didn't see your sig. > > Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> this is from my nexus s, with a signature which follows. running 2.3.6. >> test 'test' was my signature. Here's the log that seems related to the issue we're seeing. D/Email ( 811): Upsyc triggered for message id=373 I/ActivityManager( 111): Starting: Intent { flg=0x4000000 cmp=com.android.email/.activity.MessageList (has extras) } from pid 811 I/ActivityManager( 111): Displayed com.android.email/.activity.MessageList: +278ms W/Email ( 811): Line 8: Unexpected end of headers detected. Boundary detected in header or EOF reached. W/Email ( 811): Line 8: Body part ended prematurely. Higher level boundary detected or EOF reached. D/Email ( 811): *** synchronizeMailboxGeneric *** The "Line 8: Unexpected end of headers detected" section seems relevant. However, that message doesn't reveal much online beyond folks commenting that their email app crashing all the time. It looks like it is coming from the org.apache.james.mime4j package, specifically MimeStreamParser.java. See: http://hi-android.info/src/org/apache/james/mime4j/MimeStreamParser.java.html It sounds like folks opt for one of two suggestions: 1) use the K9 email application since it is supposed to behave better, not sure if that has been suggested here or not. 2a) Otherwise, clearing caches is supposed to help, though that will require putting in your account details again: Applications>Manage Applications>All>Gmail>Clear data. 2b) Or if you have root, you can rm the cache files manually without having to recreate the account. But I leave that as an exercise to the reader to figure out. Of course in the case of the latter options the issue will likely reoccur unless you keep your inbox and folders clean. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 18:52:00 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:52:00 -0500 Subject: phone debugging Message-ID: <1q9nnygewfv0hkkot2ts1ovu.1321813120283@email.android.com> This is from my device hopefully with no sig, I like to stay anon anyway. If resetting the parent to utf-8 is what drop's my noise i'll be happy. I note the following from the link's you sent. I copied them in order to test the pattern buffer. Perhaps apache has something say re: line 811 raw mode {@link ** @param is the stream to parse.* @throws IOException on I/O errors. in raw mode all future entities* (messages or body parts) in the stream will be reported to the* {@link ContentHandler#raw(InputStream) handler method only.* The stream will contain the entire unparsed entity contents* including header fields and whatever is in the body. ARM architecture looks pretty raw to me. I'm now going to try and forward a link from the news app which gave rise to this thread and hope some obscure forking expect isnt running off the stack and clobbering parts of the buffer on send. Jamon Camisso wrote: >On 11/20/2011 12:28 PM, Russ wrote: >> This is from my device prefered gmail app. Changed my sig. Got all you quoted but didn't see your sig. >> >> Jamon Camisso wrote: >> >>> this is from my nexus s, with a signature which follows. running 2.3.6. >>> test > >'test' was my signature. Here's the log that seems related to the issue >we're seeing. > >D/Email ( 811): Upsyc triggered for message id=373 >I/ActivityManager( 111): Starting: Intent { flg=0x4000000 >cmp=com.android.email/.activity.MessageList (has extras) } from pid 811 > >I/ActivityManager( 111): Displayed >com.android.email/.activity.MessageList: +278ms > >W/Email ( 811): Line 8: Unexpected end of headers detected. Boundary >detected in header or EOF reached. > >W/Email ( 811): Line 8: Body part ended prematurely. Higher level >boundary detected or EOF reached. > >D/Email ( 811): *** synchronizeMailboxGeneric *** > >The "Line 8: Unexpected end of headers detected" section seems relevant. >However, that message doesn't reveal much online beyond folks commenting >that their email app crashing all the time. > >It looks like it is coming from the org.apache.james.mime4j package, >specifically MimeStreamParser.java. See: > >http://hi-android.info/src/org/apache/james/mime4j/MimeStreamParser.java.html > >It sounds like folks opt for one of two suggestions: 1) use the K9 email >application since it is supposed to behave better, not sure if that has >been suggested here or not. > >2a) Otherwise, clearing caches is supposed to help, though that will >require putting in your account details again: > >Applications>Manage Applications>All>Gmail>Clear data. > >2b) Or if you have root, you can rm the cache files manually without >having to recreate the account. But I leave that as an exercise to the >reader to figure out. > >Of course in the case of the latter options the issue will likely >reoccur unless you keep your inbox and folders clean. > >Jamon >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 18:54:54 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russ) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:54:54 -0500 Subject: Sharing a news story Message-ID: Here is todays horoscope. Any trailing noise? http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/horoscopes/article/1077955 From alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 19:20:24 2011 From: alexgabriel-Nmj6Sl6vboSovDFt+AQlJdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:20:24 +0000 Subject: Sharing a news story Message-ID: <341830090-1321816794-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1213988224-@b3.c8.bise6.blackberry> SSBzZWUgaXQgaGVyZSBvbiBteSBCQg0KLS0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tLQ0KRnJv bTogUnVzcw0KU2VuZGVyOiBvd25lci10bHVnQHNzLm9yZw0KVG86IHRsdWdAc3Mub3JnDQpSZXBs eVRvOiB0bHVnQHNzLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogW1RMVUddOiBTaGFyaW5nIGEgbmV3cyBzdG9yeQ0K U2VudDogTm92IDIwLCAyMDExIDEzOjU0DQoNCkhlcmUgaXMgdG9kYXlzIGhvcm9zY29wZS4gQW55 IHRyYWlsaW5nIG5vaXNlPw0KDQpodHRwOi8vbW9iaWxlLnRoZXN0YXIuY29tL21vYmlsZS9ob3Jv c2NvcGVzL2FydGljbGUvMTA3Nzk1NU4X06I/J9aCPz9UPz8/Gj8uP8eePyk/G20/P+C1qW7Cij8/ Mj8a16o/Py3QuMe7G2g/Jyw2Pz8wPytqP14/P96WPzw/PyU/aT8ePy0/Q1JQFD9EP0Q/P2k/Py1q Wz8/Pz8pIj/Goj8pPystDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgQmxhY2tCZXJyeSBkZXZpY2Ugb24gdGhlIFJv Z2VycyBXaXJlbGVzcyBOZXR3b3Jr -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 19:26:14 2011 From: slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 14:26:14 -0500 Subject: Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: (Russ's message of "Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:54:54 -0500") References: Message-ID: <85ty5yoas1.fsf@azurservers.com> Russ a ??crit profondement: | Here is todays horoscope. Any trailing noise? > | http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/horoscopes/article/1077955???y:+?{h.)??K??????1???x,?m??????????-A?z?????.)???)???6??0????m{Z0?G(????z0?? I at R ?m???? Z???????)"????)??X? > Here you go if this is any use to you. Using Emacs/gnus as mail client POP'ed off freeshell/lonestar/sdf [HEADERS+Original message as received] X-From-Line: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 13:55:28 2011 Return-Path: Received: from azurservers.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by azurservers.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id pAKItR0a027948 for ; Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:55:28 -0500 Received: from mx.freeshell.org by azurservers.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.17) for (single-drop); Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:55:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from rock.ss.org (drew-9nEPEk6UKML5OPYHOmv4JA at public.gmane.org [206.108.5.1]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.5/8.14.3) with ESMTP id pAKIt8cc019443 for ; Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:55:08 GMT Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix) id 093C7A2C01; Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:55:06 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: route-tlug-JcsaL2wEbRNAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org Received: by rock.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54) id 00740A2C07; Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:55:05 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Delivered-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:subject:message-id:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=zxUPHHfFOf8zD9BWNjau7LqCE3D3J1scxUjDwwrt1Dc=; b=geO9bM73iw2nR90Zd2OLvJ1eFcGEUCVfxogYubkGLza2yXwiq9/7SVGM8nh45hbCck FO2MrUwU5ENX+iHMpgFCed/pocS9iqHBEJ3vGYemndIw7uqoyc1Mkn75Corfi9388fpP hVHcb8NSI131JCciCQsPQcj9Iv0aJtvLg+Oek= Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:54:54 -0500 Subject: [TLUG]: Sharing a news story X-Gnus-Mail-Source: file:/var/spool/mail/inconnu Message-ID: From: Russ To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Precedence: list Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by sdf.lonestar.org id pAKIt8cc019443 Lines: 5 Xref: azurservers.com maillist.tlug:2156 [/HEADERS] Here is todays horoscope. Any trailing noise? http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/horoscopes/article/1077955???y:+?{h.)??K??????1???x,?m??????????-A?z?????.)???)???6??0????m{Z0?G(????z0?? I at R ?m???? Z???????)"????)??X? [/HEADERS+MESSAGE] -- Slackrat Flying the Flag of the English http://usera.imagecave.com/daveycrockett/englishdragon.jpg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 19:29:03 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 14:29:03 -0500 Subject: phone debugging In-Reply-To: <1q9nnygewfv0hkkot2ts1ovu.1321813120283-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <1q9nnygewfv0hkkot2ts1ovu.1321813120283@email.android.com> Message-ID: <4EC954FF.7010609@utoronto.ca> On 11/20/2011 01:52 PM, Russ wrote: > This is from my device hopefully with no sig, I like to stay anon anyway. If resetting the parent to utf-8 is what drop's my noise i'll be happy. > > I note the following from the link's you sent. I copied them in order to test the pattern buffer. Perhaps apache has something say re: line 811 raw mode {@link > > > ** @param is the stream to parse.* @throws IOException on I/O errors. > > in raw mode all future entities* (messages or body parts) in the stream will be reported to the* {@link > > ContentHandler#raw(InputStream) handler method only.* The stream will contain the entire unparsed entity contents* including header fields and whatever is in the body. > > ARM architecture looks pretty raw to me. I'm now going to try and forward a link from the news app which gave rise to this thread and hope some obscure forking expect isnt running off the stack and clobbering parts of the buffer on send. Here's the official bug, from 2009 and still unresolved.. Sounds like K9 is the best option: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=2630 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 19:35:39 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 14:35:39 -0500 Subject: phone debugging In-Reply-To: <4EC954FF.7010609-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1q9nnygewfv0hkkot2ts1ovu.1321813120283@email.android.com> <4EC954FF.7010609@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4EC9568B.9070900@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Here's the official bug, from 2009 and still unresolved.. Sounds like K9 > is the best option: > I thought he was using the GMail app. I used to have similar problems sending files, via a non-gmail account, using that app. However, for GMail, the GMail app works much better. I use the GMail app for GMail and K-9 for my Rogers account. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 20 19:37:20 2011 From: slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 14:37:20 -0500 Subject: Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: <85ty5yoas1.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> (Slack Rat's message of "Sun, 20 Nov 2011 14:26:14 -0500") References: <85ty5yoas1.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <85pqgmoa9j.fsf@azurservers.com> Slack Rat a ?crit profondement: And here's what happened when I sent the preceeding message Non-printable characters found. Continue sending? (d, r, i, e, ?): [2 times] Sending... Message contains characters with unknown encoding. Really send? (y or n) Use ASCII as charset? (y or n) Sending via mail... Opening STARTTLS connection to `smtp.free.fr:587'...done Most interesting is the "unknown encoding" warning since gnus attempts to pick an appropriate coding from an awfully long list of charsets/encoding alternatives. -- Slackrat Flying the Flag of the English http://usera.imagecave.com/daveycrockett/englishdragon.jpg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 00:25:01 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phone) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:25:01 -0500 Subject: phone debugging In-Reply-To: <4EC954FF.7010609-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1q9nnygewfv0hkkot2ts1ovu.1321813120283@email.android.com> <4EC954FF.7010609@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Thank's Jamon I just installed k9 to give it a try. I understand the reasoning put forth in the thread in respect of defaulting to base 64 encoding re: the problem being mostly in north america, but if I use a product which has a toggle to send in plain text, I kind of expect stuff to go in plain text. Thank's to all who posted headers and other info, it makes for some interesting reading. As far as the problem was panning out, this is what I was starting to consider, with not necessarily the most silly at the top of the list. Unknowns make me wary. ; ) Anyway here they are, the top N reasons my phone was getting so noisy: 1) It was infested with Tolls. 2) It was hacked by Austin Powers international man of mystery, for reasons of industrial espionage or national security. 3) Tom Christiansen told usenet "if you find yourself calling cat with just one argument, then you're probably doing something you shouldn't," and he slipped in a perl one liner that changed all the newlines to CRLF just to piss every one off. 4) Java is broken but we use it anyway. (Kind of like microshaft.) 5) IO::Socket would have been too easy: $socket = new IO: :Socket: :INET (PeerAddr => $remote_host, PeerPort => $remote_port, Proto => "tcp", Type => SOCK_STREAM) or die "Can't connect to $remote_host : $remote_port : $!\n"; 6) A PST was given to us by the NDP is too irreverent a way to remember how to hack the OSI stack. Four more and we could send this to Letterman, assuming he's not depracated yet. I'm going to try k9 before I try rooting the phone and installing ssh and mutt or pine. Actually if anybody is really interested in what I think the problem is, I feel its something to do with the mua's impatience while the mta connects and deals with syncing the buffer write. The UA's just being a little dopy and snarfing up data that should be directed to /dev/null. This is causing the schisim between the mime header and other content. My 02 cents anyway. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Jamon Camisso wrote: On 11/20/2011 01:52 PM, Russ wrote: > This is from my device hopefully with no sig, I like to stay anon anyway. If resetting the parent to utf-8 is what drop's my noise i'll be happy. > > I note the following from the link's you sent. I copied them in order to test the pattern buffer. Perhaps apache has something say re: line 811 raw mode {@link > > > ** @param is the stream to parse.* @throws IOException on I/O errors. > > in raw mode all future entities* (messages or body parts) in the stream will be reported to the* {@link > > ContentHandler#raw(InputStream) handler method only.* The stream will contain the entire unparsed entity contents* including header fields and whatever is in the body. > > ARM architecture looks pretty raw to me. I'm now going to try and forward a link from the news app which gave rise to this thread and hope some obscure forking expect isnt running off the stack and clobbering parts of the buffer on send. Here's the official bug, from 2009 and still unresolved.. Sounds like K9 is the best option: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=2630 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 00:51:34 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phone) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:51:34 -0500 Subject: Testing K9 Message-ID: <34937a0b-1368-49f4-8197-1ce2435ba825@email.android.com> Just want to see if it borks the tlug footer. -- About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." I held the record for attendence for someone not staff. Pass #1 as of 1971. They would let me play with the EM but not the microtome. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 01:54:40 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:54:40 -0500 Subject: Testing K9 In-Reply-To: <34937a0b-1368-49f4-8197-1ce2435ba825-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <34937a0b-1368-49f4-8197-1ce2435ba825@email.android.com> Message-ID: <4EC9AF60.6040306@utoronto.ca> On 11/20/2011 07:51 PM, Phone wrote: > Just want to see if it borks the tlug footer. There doesn't seem to be a footer.. Mutt sounds good, but now you've got me looking around and I think I'm inclined to go the K9 and APG route. This would get GPG encryption for mail coming straight out of the phone. See http://geekyschmidt.com/2010/12/09/gpg-on-your-android-phone for more. Might post here once I have it working. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 01:55:12 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:55:12 -0500 Subject: Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111121015511.GA32475@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 01:54:54PM -0500, Russ wrote > Here is todays horoscope. Any trailing noise? > > http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/horoscopes/article/1077955 No trailing garbage at all. FYI, here's the raw message, with leading space inserted to avoid screwing up simple MUA's... ===================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:54:54 -0500 Subject: [TLUG]: Sharing a news story Message-ID: From: Russ To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Precedence: list Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org X-Whitelist: Whitelisted (sender *@ss.org) SGVyZSBpcyB0b2RheXMgaG9yb3Njb3BlLiBBbnkgdHJhaWxpbmcgbm9pc2U/CgpodHRwOi8vbW9i aWxlLnRoZXN0YXIuY29tL21vYmlsZS9ob3Jvc2NvcGVzL2FydGljbGUvMTA3Nzk1NQ== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists ===================================================================== -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 02:04:33 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 21:04:33 -0500 Subject: Testing K9 In-Reply-To: <34937a0b-1368-49f4-8197-1ce2435ba825-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <34937a0b-1368-49f4-8197-1ce2435ba825@email.android.com> Message-ID: <20111121020433.GA32580@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 07:51:34PM -0500, Phone wrote > Just want to see if it borks the tlug footer. > -- > About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." I held the record for attendence for someone not staff. Pass #1 as of 1971. They would let me play with the EM but not the microtome. No footer visibile *WHEN READING IN MUTT*. Raw file follows. Note that I've inserted a leading space to protect all MUA's... ===================================================================== User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----V1S19X9AVGCPHVRBI9DOT0SYP5XAF W" Subject: [TLUG]: Testing K9 From: Phone Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:51:34 -0500 To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" Message-ID: <34937a0b-1368-49f4-8197-1ce2435ba825-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org> Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Precedence: list Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org X-Whitelist: Whitelisted (sender *@ss.org) ------V1S19X9AVGCPHVRBI9DOT0SYP5XAFW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just want to see if it borks the tlug footer. -- About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." I held the record for attendence for someone not staff. Pass #1 as of 1971. They would let me play with the EM but not the microtome. ------V1S19X9AVGCPHVRBI9DOT0SYP5XAFW Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just want to see if it borks the tlug footer.
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About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." I held the record for attendence for someone not staff. Pass #1 as of 1971. They would let me play with the EM but not the microtome. ------V1S19X9AVGCPHVRBI9DOT0SYP5XAFW-- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists ===================================================================== -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 02:06:51 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phone) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 21:06:51 -0500 Subject: Testing K9 In-Reply-To: <4EC9AF60.6040306-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <34937a0b-1368-49f4-8197-1ce2435ba825@email.android.com> <4EC9AF60.6040306@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Yep, it's borked. Thanks I'll check out the link. Let us know what you wind up with. I'm going to see what I can do about changing my display id from phone to Russ. Also make the sig sticky, it reverts to the K9 default every time I start a new message. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Jamon Camisso wrote: On 11/20/2011 07:51 PM, Phone wrote: > Just want to see if it borks the tlug footer. There doesn't seem to be a footer.. Mutt sounds good, but now you've got me looking around and I think I'm inclined to go the K9 and APG route. This would get GPG encryption for mail coming straight out of the phone. See http://geekyschmidt.com/2010/12/09/gpg-on-your-android-phone for more. Might post here once I have it working. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 02:15:52 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phone) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 21:15:52 -0500 Subject: Testing K9 In-Reply-To: <20111121020433.GA32580-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <34937a0b-1368-49f4-8197-1ce2435ba825@email.android.com> <20111121020433.GA32580@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <3893367c-999b-4a60-8b2d-99879bde1b9b@email.android.com> Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to try reverting from UTF-8 in gmail via a browser and see what K9 chooses natively. But not tonight, time to recharge. : ) -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 07:51:34PM -0500, Phone wrote > Just want to see if it borks the tlug footer. > -- > About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." I held the record for attendence for someone not staff. Pass #1 as of 1971. They would let me play with the EM but not the microtome. No footer visibile *WHEN READING IN MUTT*. Raw file follows. Note that I've inserted a leading space to protect all MUA's... _____________________________________________ User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----V1S19X9AVGCPHVRBI9DOT0SYP5XAF W" Subject: [TLUG]: Testing K9 From: Phone Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:51:34 -0500 To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" Message-ID: <34937a0b-1368-49f4-8197-1ce2435ba825-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org> Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Precedence: list Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org X-Whitelist: Whitelisted (sender *@ss.org) ------V1S19X9AVGCPHVRBI9DOT0SYP5XAFW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just want to see if it borks the tlug footer. -- About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." I held the record for attendence for someone not staff. Pass #1 as of 1971. They would let me play with the EM but not the microtome. ------V1S19X9AVGCPHVRBI9DOT0SYP5XAFW Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just want to see if it borks the tlug footer.
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About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." I held the record for attendence for someone not staff. Pass #1 as of 1971. They would let me play with the EM but not the microtome. ------V1S19X9AVGCPHVRBI9DOT0SYP5XAFW-- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _____________________________________________ -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 02:28:49 2011 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 21:28:49 -0500 Subject: Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: <20111121015511.GA32475-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111121015511.GA32475@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4EC9B761.7080200@sobac.com> On 11-11-20 08:55 PM, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > No trailing garbage at all. FYI, here's the raw message, with leading > space inserted to avoid screwing up simple MUA's... > > ===================================================================== > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:54:54 -0500 > Subject: [TLUG]: Sharing a news story > Message-ID: > From: Russ > To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Precedence: list > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > X-Whitelist: Whitelisted (sender *@ss.org) > > SGVyZSBpcyB0b2RheXMgaG9yb3Njb3BlLiBBbnkgdHJhaWxpbmcgbm9pc2U/CgpodHRwOi8vbW9i > aWxlLnRoZXN0YXIuY29tL21vYmlsZS9ob3Jvc2NvcGVzL2FydGljbGUvMTA3Nzk1NQ== > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > ===================================================================== It's a wonderful illustration of the problem: The headers declare that the text is Content-Transfer-Encoded with Base64 (a perfectly valid encoding for e-mail), but the contents of the message body includes the TLUG footer which is not encoded with Base64, thus corrupting the contents of the message body. The problem is not the MUA that Ross is using, but the behaviour of the mailing list software. If it is going to add a footer, it should first decode the Base64 message body, add the footer, and then (optionally) re-encode to Base64. Or the mailing list software could re-transmit the message with Content-Type set to Multi-part/mixed, with the message body in one part and the TLUG footer in another part. It is a different problem than trying to get a particular MUA to send with a particular Content-Transfer-Encoding, which seems to be what Ross et al. are trying to do. Even if you find a way to suppress Base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding on your MUA it does not solve the problem of the mailing list software corrupting messages. Perhaps this MUA testing could be taken off-line. --Bob. MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions) Part One: Mechanisms for Specifying and Describing the Format of Internet Message Bodies https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1521 The Base16, Base32, and Base64 Data Encodings https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4648 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 03:44:55 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phone) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:44:55 -0500 Subject: Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: <4EC9B761.7080200-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111121015511.GA32475@waltdnes.org> <4EC9B761.7080200@sobac.com> Message-ID: <7cd87772-4914-4e75-a6e2-0b67c950748a@email.android.com> Hi Bob thanks for the links. To tell you the truth if there wasn't such a catterwallin on the list the first time some dross showed up in one of my posts, I wouldn't care. I can live with a little dross myself. I note that RFC stands for request for comments. If I hadn't noticed that it appeared that charactars were being appended on send before being handled by the mail list software I might agree wholeheartedly that the list is at fault. Having made that comment, I'll also say this, if a linux hacker can't post to a hobbyist lug about making his linux device send plain text then where should they go. It's not like there's a huge enterprise relying on absolute accuracy here. If there is such a thing as absolutly uniform behaviour in cross platform applications, I hardly ever see much of that. As for taking this discussion offline, I could see that, if the list managers decide android is in fact not a linux. If it is, then we all know how to deal with list chatter we have no interest in. Respectfully, Ross -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Bob Jonkman wrote: On 11-11-20 08:55 PM, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > No trailing garbage at all. FYI, here's the raw message, with leading > space inserted to avoid screwing up simple MUA's... > >_____________________________________________ > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:54:54 -0500 > Subject: [TLUG]: Sharing a news story > Message-ID: > From: Russ > To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Precedence: list > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > X-Whitelist: Whitelisted (sender *@ss.org) > > SGVyZSBpcyB0b2RheXMgaG9yb3Njb3BlLiBBbnkgdHJhaWxpbmcgbm9pc2U/CgpodHRwOi8vbW9i > aWxlLnRoZXN0YXIuY29tL21vYmlsZS9ob3Jvc2NvcGVzL2FydGljbGUvMTA3Nzk1NQ== > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >_____________________________________________ It's a wonderful illustration of the problem: The headers declare that the text is Content-Transfer-Encoded with Base64 (a perfectly valid encoding for e-mail), but the contents of the message body includes the TLUG footer which is not encoded with Base64, thus corrupting the contents of the message body. The problem is not the MUA that Ross is using, but the behaviour of the mailing list software. If it is going to add a footer, it should first decode the Base64 message body, add the footer, and then (optionally) re-encode to Base64. Or the mailing list software could re-transmit the message with Content-Type set to Multi-part/mixed, with the message body in one part and the TLUG footer in another part. It is a different problem than trying to get a particular MUA to send with a particular Content-Transfer-Encoding, which seems to be what Ross et al. are trying to do. Even if you find a way to suppress Base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding on your MUA it does not solve the problem of the mailing list software corrupting messages. Perhaps this MUA testing could be taken off-line. --Bob. MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions) Part One: Mechanisms for Specifying and Describing the Format of Internet Message Bodies https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1521 The Base16, Base32, and Base64 Data Encodings https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4648 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 12:21:37 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R. Russell Reiter) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:21:37 -0500 Subject: unborking tlug sig Message-ID: Testing my kluge. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ ts: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns. How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 12:45:32 2011 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:45:32 -0500 Subject: htop reaches 1.0! Message-ID: htop has reached version 1.0 after 8 years of development. Really love this tool. ML message here - http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=28428307 -- Sadiq S http://asininetech.com https://launchpad.net/~staticsafe https://github.com/staticsafe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 13:36:56 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R. Russell Reiter) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:36:56 -0500 Subject: Sharing a news story Message-ID: Reset the parent to ascii. Kluged the tlug sig. Testing for trailing garbage. Any mess? No real tech news, but I can't resist a bad pun about cat, no matter how much I try. http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/facts-and-arguments/the-essay/ive-become-the-type-of-creepy-cat-person-i-used-to-mock/article2241598/?service=mobile -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ ts: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns. How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 14:06:47 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:06:47 -0500 Subject: Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ECA5AF7.6080407@alteeve.com> On 11/21/2011 08:36 AM, R. Russell Reiter wrote: > Reset the parent to ascii. Kluged the tlug sig. Testing for trailing > garbage. Any mess? > > No real tech news, but I can't resist a bad pun about cat, no matter how > much I try. > > http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/facts-and-arguments/the-essay/ive-become-the-type-of-creepy-cat-person-i-used-to-mock/article2241598/?service=mobile This worked for me. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "omg my singularity battery is dead again. stupid hawking radiation." - epitron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 13:47:58 2011 From: chipmand-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (DAVID CHIPMAN) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 05:47:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: unborking tlug sig In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1321883278.2333.YahooMailNeo@web88604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: R. Russell Reiter To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 7:21:37 AM Subject: [TLUG]: unborking tlug sig Testing my kluge. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ ts: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns. How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Hi Russ, Looks fine here. No garbage characters. I have seen garbage characters in earlier messages, so things are better now. I'm using Yahoo Webmail, -David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 14:45:41 2011 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:45:41 -0500 Subject: Trying to make a VNC connection from my LG android phone to one of my Linux computers Message-ID: <004301cca85c$3e79a980$bb6cfc80$@iprimus.ca> Hello I read an interesting article in Issue 105 of the Linux user and developer magazine, regarding connecting my Android cellphone to either of my Linux computers. I first added x11vnc to my Ubuntu box, started the service and disabled the firewall. I then added AndroidVNC to my Smartphone apps, pointed the phone towards the ip address and port in the Ubuntu box 192.168.3.103:5900 and tried to connect but the connection keeps failing. According to the article in the mag, and from similar threads (via Google) I have done everything right. Not sure what I am missing. Any ideas, folks ? Clive DaSilva Business Analyst Home: 416-421-2480|Mobile: 416-560-8820|Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 14:50:22 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:50:22 -0500 Subject: Trying to make a VNC connection from my LG android phone to one of my Linux computers In-Reply-To: <004301cca85c$3e79a980$bb6cfc80$@iprimus.ca> References: <004301cca85c$3e79a980$bb6cfc80$@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: I'm not sure if this will do what you want, I've never used it. It's an http proxy for android devices. HTH http://code.google.com/p/proxoid/ On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Clive DaSilva wrote: > Hello > > > > I read an interesting article in Issue 105 of the Linux user and developer > magazine, regarding connecting my Android cellphone to either of my Linux > computers. I first added x11vnc to my Ubuntu box, started the service and > disabled the firewall. I then added AndroidVNC to my Smartphone apps, > pointed the phone towards the ip address and port in the Ubuntu box > 192.168.3.103:5900 and tried to connect but the connection keeps failing. > According to the article in the mag, and from similar threads (via Google) I > have done everything right. Not sure what I am missing. > > > > Any ideas, folks ? > > > > > > Clive DaSilva > > Business Analyst > > Home:? 416-421-2480|Mobile: 416-560-8820|Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org > > -- About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." I hold the record for most attendences by someone not staff. I could play with the EM not the microtome. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 15:17:15 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:17:15 -0500 Subject: unborking tlug sig In-Reply-To: <1321883278.2333.YahooMailNeo-iHgbpqYj/AKvYMxfvLqCK1Z8N9CAUha/QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1321883278.2333.YahooMailNeo@web88604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No Tlug footer on your message. What client are you using. Wait a minute, my phone kludge footer appears in your response as does my gmail footer but the tlug footer is not appended. What's going on here, besides the fact that I'm a lousy speller. In an effort to back-trace the problem, I'm going to try to disable Latitude, GPS and Google location as I'm thinking that the co-ordinates used by for location, rather than being sent in plain text are being bundled into a mime format in order to be parsed by a GIS system which either cannot or will not recognize plain text. I refuse to believe that I cannot use linux to send a plain text message and I balk at having to root my device to do this. Thanks Russ On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 8:47 AM, DAVID CHIPMAN wrote: > > From: R. Russell Reiter > To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 7:21:37 AM > Subject: [TLUG]: unborking tlug sig > > Testing my kluge. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ ts: Linux > topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns. How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Hi Russ, > > Looks fine here. No garbage characters. I have seen garbage characters in > earlier messages, so things are better now. I'm using Yahoo Webmail, > > -David > > > -- About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." I hold the record for most attendences by someone not staff. I could play with the EM not the microtome. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 15:47:21 2011 From: sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Sammy Lao) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:47:21 -0500 Subject: Trying to make a VNC connection from my LG android phone to one of my Linux computers In-Reply-To: <004301cca85c$3e79a980$bb6cfc80$@iprimus.ca> References: <004301cca85c$3e79a980$bb6cfc80$@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <2823183058397806418@unknownmsgid> Funny. I am running into the same problem right now. On 2011-11-21, at 9:45, Clive DaSilva wrote: Hello I read an interesting article in Issue 105 of the Linux user and developer magazine, regarding connecting my Android cellphone to either of my Linux computers. I first added x11vnc to my Ubuntu box, started the service and disabled the firewall. I then added AndroidVNC to my Smartphone apps, pointed the phone towards the ip address and port in the Ubuntu box 192.168.3.103:5900 and tried to connect but the connection keeps failing. According to the article in the mag, and from similar threads (via Google) I have done everything right. Not sure what I am missing. Any ideas, folks ? Clive DaSilva Business Analyst Home: 416-421-2480|Mobile: 416-560-8820|Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 16:05:08 2011 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:05:08 -0500 Subject: Trying to make a VNC connection from my LG android phone to one of my Linux computers In-Reply-To: <2823183058397806418@unknownmsgid> References: <004301cca85c$3e79a980$bb6cfc80$@iprimus.ca> <2823183058397806418@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <001201cca867$57bc7c50$073574f0$@iprimus.ca> Thanks for your comments guys. I guess we will just keep plugging away. On a similar thread my TDBank Android app stopped working when my version of Android got upgraded to 2.2.2 From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Sammy Lao Sent: November-21-11 10:47 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Trying to make a VNC connection from my LG android phone to one of my Linux computers Funny. I am running into the same problem right now. On 2011-11-21, at 9:45, Clive DaSilva wrote: Hello I read an interesting article in Issue 105 of the Linux user and developer magazine, regarding connecting my Android cellphone to either of my Linux computers. I first added x11vnc to my Ubuntu box, started the service and disabled the firewall. I then added AndroidVNC to my Smartphone apps, pointed the phone towards the ip address and port in the Ubuntu box 192.168.3.103:5900 and tried to connect but the connection keeps failing. According to the article in the mag, and from similar threads (via Google) I have done everything right. Not sure what I am missing. Any ideas, folks ? Clive DaSilva Business Analyst Home: 416-421-2480|Mobile: 416-560-8820|Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 16:18:34 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:18:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: unborking tlug sig In-Reply-To: References: <1321883278.2333.YahooMailNeo@web88604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This seems like a Keystone Cops thread. Here's my simple theory that explains everything: 1) Android's email MUA never sends unencoded plain text. 1a) It uses base64, or 1b) MIME (and the MIME components are probably encoded too, but that is not relevant). 2) TLUG's mailing list software tacks a plain text sig on all emails. As if they were unencoded plain text messages (it would still work if they were encoded as quoted printable text). 3) (1) and (2) don't mix well. What the recipient sees of the wreck depends on the recipient's MUA 3a) (1a)+(2) in some MUAs shows up as crap at the end of the message. In others, it is just suppressed. The TLUG footer certainly isn't readable. 3b) (1b)+(2) seems to show up as no visible TLUG footer, but no APPARENT damage. I think that technically the message is broken because the TLUG footer is not properly MIME encapsulated. My MUA (Alpine) lets me look at the raw message to see what is going on. Surely yours does too. Look: don't guess. | From: Russell Reiter | No Tlug footer on your message. Not true. His was case 3b. The footer was in the message. Your MUA didn't show it to you. | In an effort to back-trace the problem, I'm going to try to disable | Latitude, GPS and Google location as I'm thinking that the | co-ordinates used by for location, rather than being sent in plain | text are being bundled into a mime format in order to be parsed by a | GIS system which either cannot or will not recognize plain text. I don't see how that could be at all related. But you never know. | I refuse to believe that I cannot use linux to send a plain text | message and I balk at having to root my device to do this. I agree with your sentiment. But Android, at this level (MUA), is not really Linux. And the error report seems to indicate that Google doesn't consider this always-encode-base64 a bug. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 16:18:14 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:18:14 -0500 Subject: Trying to make a VNC connection from my LG android phone to one of my Linux computers In-Reply-To: <004301cca85c$3e79a980$bb6cfc80$@iprimus.ca> References: <004301cca85c$3e79a980$bb6cfc80$@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <4ECA79C6.2070909@gmail.com> works fine for me, just tried it to make sure, i have vino-serv running on 5900 on my linux-mint DE box, and ip and port into AndroidVNC, works great. If you are going to a private local ip (you are), you need to be on wifi, if on mobile net, that will not work of course, you would need to go do your public IP (of modem) and do port forward on your router, i wouldn't advise that, unless use knock or vpn. -tl On 11/21/2011 09:45 AM, Clive DaSilva wrote: > > Hello > > I read an interesting article in Issue 105 of the Linux user and > developer magazine, regarding connecting my Android cellphone to > either of my Linux computers. I first added x11vnc to my Ubuntu box, > started the service and disabled the firewall. I then added AndroidVNC > to my Smartphone apps, pointed the phone towards the ip address and > port in the Ubuntu box 192.168.3.103:5900 and tried to connect but > the connection keeps failing. According to the article in the mag, and > from similar threads (via Google) I have done everything right. Not > sure what I am missing. > > Any ideas, folks ? > > Clive DaSilva > > Business Analyst > > Home: 416-421-2480|Mobile: 416-560-8820|Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 16:21:17 2011 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:21:17 -0500 Subject: Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ECA7A7D.4090401@rogers.com> On 21/11/11 8:36 AM, R. Russell Reiter wrote: > Reset the parent to ascii. Kluged the tlug sig. Testing for trailing > garbage. Any mess? The trailing garbage is gone, but instead there are now two copies of your message with different content types: Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Type: text/html; IMHO, this solution is just as bad than the original problem. Can you repost your OS and email client specs. Maybe someone can figure out how it should be configured to send plain text alone. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 16:35:39 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:35:39 -0500 Subject: phone debugging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111121163539.GJ6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 05:03:22PM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: > I'm trying to trace my trailing android garbage. This email is sent from > the device using Dolphin Mini to log into the gmail website, instead of > using the app bundled in the core. > I'm thinking that the garbage is the result of a stack overrun by the mta > and that is what is clobbering the tlug footer. > > Any trailing mess? The issue is very simple. Your client has been using 'base64' enconding. The mailing list software assumes ascii encoding when appending the 'TLUG' footer. That is the cause of the garbage. There is nothing to debug, you simply have to either make it not use base64 encoding, or get the TLUG mailing list software fixed. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 16:39:06 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:39:06 -0500 Subject: Testing K9 In-Reply-To: <20111121020433.GA32580-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <34937a0b-1368-49f4-8197-1ce2435ba825@email.android.com> <20111121020433.GA32580@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20111121163906.GK6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 09:04:33PM -0500, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 07:51:34PM -0500, Phone wrote > > Just want to see if it borks the tlug footer. > > -- > > About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." I held the record for attendence for someone not staff. Pass #1 as of 1971. They would let me play with the EM but not the microtome. > > No footer visibile *WHEN READING IN MUTT*. Raw file follows. Note > that I've inserted a leading space to protect all MUA's... > > ===================================================================== > User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----V1S19X9AVGCPHVRBI9DOT0SYP5XAF > W" > Subject: [TLUG]: Testing K9 > From: Phone > Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:51:34 -0500 > To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" > Message-ID: <34937a0b-1368-49f4-8197-1ce2435ba825-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org> > Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Precedence: list > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > X-Whitelist: Whitelisted (sender *@ss.org) > > ------V1S19X9AVGCPHVRBI9DOT0SYP5XAFW > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=UTF-8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Just want to see if it borks the tlug footer. > -- > About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." I held the > record for attendence for someone not staff. Pass #1 as of 1971. They would let > me play with the EM but not the microtome. > ------V1S19X9AVGCPHVRBI9DOT0SYP5XAFW > Content-Type: text/html; > charset=utf-8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Just want to see if it borks the tlug footer.
> --
> About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." > I held the record for attendence for someone not staff. Pass #1 as of 1971. They > would let me play with the EM but not the microtome. > ------V1S19X9AVGCPHVRBI9DOT0SYP5XAFW-- > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > ===================================================================== Great, the mailing list software doesn't even have a clue about multipart mime format. What crappy software is the list using? Anyone know? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 16:40:15 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:40:15 -0500 Subject: Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: <4ECA7A7D.4090401-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4ECA7A7D.4090401@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20111121164015.GL6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:21:17AM -0500, Yanni Chiu wrote: > On 21/11/11 8:36 AM, R. Russell Reiter wrote: > >Reset the parent to ascii. Kluged the tlug sig. Testing for trailing > >garbage. Any mess? > > The trailing garbage is gone, but instead there are now two copies > of your message with different content types: > > Content-Type: text/plain; > Content-Type: text/html; > > IMHO, this solution is just as bad than the original problem. > > Can you repost your OS and email client specs. Maybe someone can > figure out how it should be configured to send plain text alone. No, nothing wrong with multipart. Looked perfect to me. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 16:42:27 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:42:27 -0500 Subject: unborking tlug sig In-Reply-To: References: <1321883278.2333.YahooMailNeo@web88604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20111121164227.GM6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:18:34AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > This seems like a Keystone Cops thread. Here's my simple theory that > explains everything: > > 1) Android's email MUA never sends unencoded plain text. > 1a) It uses base64, or > 1b) MIME (and the MIME components are probably encoded too, but that > is not relevant). > > 2) TLUG's mailing list software tacks a plain text sig on all emails. > As if they were unencoded plain text messages (it would still work > if they were encoded as quoted printable text). > > 3) (1) and (2) don't mix well. What the recipient sees of the wreck > depends on the recipient's MUA > > 3a) (1a)+(2) in some MUAs shows up as crap at the end of the message. > In others, it is just suppressed. The TLUG footer certainly isn't > readable. > > 3b) (1b)+(2) seems to show up as no visible TLUG footer, but no > APPARENT damage. I think that technically the message is broken > because the TLUG footer is not properly MIME encapsulated. > > My MUA (Alpine) lets me look at the raw message to see what is going > on. Surely yours does too. Look: don't guess. > > | From: Russell Reiter > > | No Tlug footer on your message. > > Not true. His was case 3b. The footer was in the message. Your MUA > didn't show it to you. > > | In an effort to back-trace the problem, I'm going to try to disable > | Latitude, GPS and Google location as I'm thinking that the > | co-ordinates used by for location, rather than being sent in plain > | text are being bundled into a mime format in order to be parsed by a > | GIS system which either cannot or will not recognize plain text. > > I don't see how that could be at all related. But you never know. > > | I refuse to believe that I cannot use linux to send a plain text > | message and I balk at having to root my device to do this. > > I agree with your sentiment. But Android, at this level (MUA), is not > really Linux. And the error report seems to indicate that Google > doesn't consider this always-encode-base64 a bug. It doesn't count as a bug to me. The only bug discovered so far is the mailing list software in use for TLUG. It clearly doesn't have a clue how to handle proper emails when appending that footer unless they are plain old ascii. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 16:47:06 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:47:06 -0500 Subject: Testing K9 In-Reply-To: <20111121163906.GK6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <34937a0b-1368-49f4-8197-1ce2435ba825@email.android.com> <20111121020433.GA32580@waltdnes.org> <20111121163906.GK6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Great, the mailing list software doesn't even have a clue about multipart > mime format. ?What crappy software is the list using? ?Anyone know? I think it's Majordomo, though hacked pretty heavily. It's not impossible that it predates the definition of multipart MIME; I'm not sure when that took place. I've put an item on this onto the next board meeting agenda. There has been a plan, for a LONG time, to consider migrating to Mailman, which is probably a decade less crufty. There's a need for Round Tuits to get it done. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 16:48:00 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:48:00 -0500 Subject: unborking tlug sig In-Reply-To: References: <1321883278.2333.YahooMailNeo@web88604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:18 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > This seems like a Keystone Cops thread. ?Here's my simple theory that > explains everything: > > 1) Android's email MUA never sends unencoded plain text. > 1a) It uses base64, or > 1b) MIME (and the MIME components are probably encoded too, but that > ? ?is not relevant). > > 2) TLUG's mailing list software tacks a plain text sig on all emails. > ? As if they were unencoded plain text messages (it would still work > ? if they were encoded as quoted printable text). > > 3) (1) and (2) don't mix well. ?What the recipient sees of the wreck > ? depends on the recipient's MUA > > 3a) (1a)+(2) in some MUAs shows up as crap at the end of the message. > ? ?In others, it is just suppressed. ?The TLUG footer certainly isn't > ? ?readable. > > 3b) (1b)+(2) seems to show up as no visible TLUG footer, but no > ? ?APPARENT damage. ?I think that technically the message is broken > ? ?because the TLUG footer is not properly MIME encapsulated. > > My MUA (Alpine) lets me look at the raw message to see what is going > on. ?Surely yours does too. ?Look: don't guess. Sorry no, I'm sort of stranded in my android for now and just getting used to it. > > | From: Russell Reiter > > | No Tlug footer on your message. > > Not true. ?His was case 3b. ?The footer was in the message. ?Your MUA > didn't show it to you. > > | In an effort to back-trace the problem, I'm going to try to disable > | Latitude, GPS and Google location as I'm thinking that the > | co-ordinates used by for location, rather than being sent in plain > | text are being bundled into a mime format in order to be parsed by a > | GIS system which either cannot or will not recognize plain text. > > I don't see how that could be at all related. ?But you never know. Well I'm trying to figure out if I can coax the MUA to plain text. > > | I refuse to believe that I cannot use linux to send a plain text > | message and I balk at having to root my device to do this. > > I agree with your sentiment. ?But Android, at this level (MUA), is not > really Linux. ?And the error report seems to indicate that Google > doesn't consider this always-encode-base64 a bug. Perhaps the Keystone cops are Google but Android is Cecil B. DeMille. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- About me: From 1969 to 1977 my nickname was "the science centre kid." >From 1971 -75 Pass #1; I hold the record for most attendances by someone not staff. I could play with the Electron Microscope but not the microtome. In 1974 I borked an exhibit and designer Jon Voskuil created a new exhibit around it. Also, John put mirrors behind the windmill in the hall of communications so I could see the other side of things. ?:-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 16:49:35 2011 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:49:35 -0500 Subject: Trying to make a VNC connection from my LG android phone to one of my Linux computers In-Reply-To: <4ECA79C6.2070909-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <004301cca85c$3e79a980$bb6cfc80$@iprimus.ca> <4ECA79C6.2070909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002901cca86d$8d5ff700$a81fe500$@iprimus.ca> Thanks Ted Will give that a try From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Ted Sent: November-21-11 11:18 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Cc: Clive DaSilva Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Trying to make a VNC connection from my LG android phone to one of my Linux computers works fine for me, just tried it to make sure, i have vino-serv running on 5900 on my linux-mint DE box, and ip and port into AndroidVNC, works great. If you are going to a private local ip (you are), you need to be on wifi, if on mobile net, that will not work of course, you would need to go do your public IP (of modem) and do port forward on your router, i wouldn't advise that, unless use knock or vpn. -tl On 11/21/2011 09:45 AM, Clive DaSilva wrote: Hello I read an interesting article in Issue 105 of the Linux user and developer magazine, regarding connecting my Android cellphone to either of my Linux computers. I first added x11vnc to my Ubuntu box, started the service and disabled the firewall. I then added AndroidVNC to my Smartphone apps, pointed the phone towards the ip address and port in the Ubuntu box 192.168.3.103:5900 and tried to connect but the connection keeps failing. According to the article in the mag, and from similar threads (via Google) I have done everything right. Not sure what I am missing. Any ideas, folks ? Clive DaSilva Business Analyst Home: 416-421-2480|Mobile: 416-560-8820|Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 17:06:35 2011 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:06:35 -0500 Subject: Trying to make a VNC connection from my LG android phone to one of my Linux computers In-Reply-To: <002901cca86d$8d5ff700$a81fe500$@iprimus.ca> References: <004301cca85c$3e79a980$bb6cfc80$@iprimus.ca> <4ECA79C6.2070909@gmail.com> <002901cca86d$8d5ff700$a81fe500$@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <000901cca86f$ed3966a0$c7ac33e0$@iprimus.ca> Wow Ted That worked. Had to switch on the wireless as I was running on mobilenet. Thanks dude From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Clive DaSilva Sent: November-21-11 11:50 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: RE: [TLUG]: Trying to make a VNC connection from my LG android phone to one of my Linux computers Thanks Ted Will give that a try From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Ted Sent: November-21-11 11:18 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Cc: Clive DaSilva Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Trying to make a VNC connection from my LG android phone to one of my Linux computers works fine for me, just tried it to make sure, i have vino-serv running on 5900 on my linux-mint DE box, and ip and port into AndroidVNC, works great. If you are going to a private local ip (you are), you need to be on wifi, if on mobile net, that will not work of course, you would need to go do your public IP (of modem) and do port forward on your router, i wouldn't advise that, unless use knock or vpn. -tl On 11/21/2011 09:45 AM, Clive DaSilva wrote: Hello I read an interesting article in Issue 105 of the Linux user and developer magazine, regarding connecting my Android cellphone to either of my Linux computers. I first added x11vnc to my Ubuntu box, started the service and disabled the firewall. I then added AndroidVNC to my Smartphone apps, pointed the phone towards the ip address and port in the Ubuntu box 192.168.3.103:5900 and tried to connect but the connection keeps failing. According to the article in the mag, and from similar threads (via Google) I have done everything right. Not sure what I am missing. Any ideas, folks ? Clive DaSilva Business Analyst Home: 416-421-2480|Mobile: 416-560-8820|Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 17:24:51 2011 From: cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Charles Philip Chan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:24:51 -0500 Subject: Trying to make a VNC connection from my LG android phone to one of my Linux computers In-Reply-To: <004301cca85c$3e79a980$bb6cfc80$@iprimus.ca> (Clive DaSilva's message of "Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:45:41 -0500") References: <004301cca85c$3e79a980$bb6cfc80$@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: "Clive DaSilva" writes: > I then added AndroidVNC to my Smartphone apps, pointed the phone > towards the ip address and port in the Ubuntu box 192.168.3.103:5900 > and tried to connect but the connection keeps failing. I have no problem connecting AndroidVNC to my VNC server. Check the log file for the display that the VNC server is running on to make sure the port is correct. For example you will see something like: ,---- | 18/11/2011 07:53:20 Listening for VNC connections on TCP port 5920 `---- Try connecting to it with a local VNC client before trying it remotely. Also for security reasons you might want to connect through a ssh tunnel via Connectbot: http://shujinkou.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-to-vnc-from-android-phone-to-linux.html This is how I have mine setup. Charles -- "Are [Linux users] lemmings collectively jumping off of the cliff of reliable, well-engineered commercial software?" (By Matt Welsh) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 17:33:08 2011 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:33:08 -0500 Subject: Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: <20111121164015.GL6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4ECA7A7D.4090401@rogers.com> <20111121164015.GL6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4ECA8B54.9010207@rogers.com> On 21/11/11 11:40 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > No, nothing wrong with multipart. > > Looked perfect to me. Yes, it looks fine. I just don't like the concept of having the same plain text message appear twice in the email multiparts. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 17:47:06 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:47:06 -0500 Subject: Setting up a Small Server Room Message-ID: <20111121174706.GB1036@yam.witteman.ca> I've been asked to collaborate on a grant proposal which includes a small server room (1-2 racks, networking, cooling, UPS). I only know enough to have an idea of what goes into such a room, and I what I need is a set of costs. Can anyone on the list give me ballpark figures (and contact emails if we get the grant and hire you to implement) for the following: 2-3 high powered web servers Backup computer(s) and storage (actual data requirements are modest - under 5 Tb) Networking, firewalls, etc Cabling, racks Cooling UPS All of these rounded to the nearest 4 figures. Thanks! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 18:11:23 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:11:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: <4ECA8B54.9010207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4ECA7A7D.4090401@rogers.com> <20111121164015.GL6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ECA8B54.9010207@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Yanni Chiu | On 21/11/11 11:40 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: | > No, nothing wrong with multipart. | > | > Looked perfect to me. | | Yes, it looks fine. I just don't like the concept of having the same plain | text message appear twice in the email multiparts. The typical multipart posting has plain text (encoded) in one part and HTML (encoded) in the other part. Usually the text contains all the information of the HTML version. The sometimes-mangled TLUG footer clearly states: | TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns So yes, there is something wrong with multipart MIME messages to TLUG :-) I, for one, dislike HTML mail. It doesn't work with my workflow. Most mail that I get that is HTML is SPAM, marketing, or drivel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 18:15:11 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:15:11 -0500 Subject: Setting up a Small Server Room In-Reply-To: <20111121174706.GB1036-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111121174706.GB1036@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4ECA952F.9020808@alteeve.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/21/2011 12:47 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I've been asked to collaborate on a grant proposal which includes > a small server room (1-2 racks, networking, cooling, UPS). I only > know enough to have an idea of what goes into such a room, and I > what I need is a set of costs. > > Can anyone on the list give me ballpark figures (and contact emails > if we get the grant and hire you to implement) for the following: > > 2-3 high powered web servers Backup computer(s) and storage (actual > data requirements are modest - under 5 Tb) Networking, firewalls, > etc Cabling, racks Cooling UPS > > All of these rounded to the nearest 4 figures. > > Thanks! Certainly don't need 2 racks for this. The term "high powered" is quite vague... What kind of workloads? Database? If so, what kind? What kind of high availability do you need? Most of my builds these days use virtual machines on a redundant cluster. This is pretty straight forward to build, and I've got a tutorial up you can follow, if you're interested in. For the storage, you'll need to scope out what speeds are tolerable. Also be careful to note that platter drives, which you'll really need for ~5tb, are seriously constrained. If you decide to cluster the VMs for HA, you'll want to look at either having separate DRBD resources or strategically using smaller SSDs for disk-intensive applications (like a DB server's DB data directory). You'll have a hard time sticking under $10k if you want real HA, but if you can live with longer down-times, you could look at cheaper servers. Generally, I use 6x NICs, out-of-band/IPMI enabled mainboards and redundant power supplies. CPU/cores, RAM and whatnot depends on the resource needs. Having a couple decent switches and separate PDUs, plus a couple power supplies sufficient to hold up one server and switch for the required amount of time tops it off. Hard to go into much more detail without knowing more about the build. - -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "omg my singularity battery is dead again. stupid hawking radiation." - epitron -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJOypUcAAoJEPsFGGF/wnArWcUH/2RJtScLj8L/hGXsHS2Zfm/0 ko/klmjTD+VGs2GTRcAbS64HOhX0bx7D/nmojR8ZPSNUtrSiRb/C4NKbYnnQ6B7h Lsz1W3CJqSo1ZF7UscKTc4cCEggFgasAvv+N5eGD2szjyIfHO3KrSYdgDHe5zVzV G0k3MdWGt5hhWv7T+/ShmYssisIEYec/fqP+vgk403Uu7/UXK3RwdNm0hYw23zCh ONmezQXUL8mpysCh83vYw82QjTnBzaZDIBoDp35kEyqQPZ5Ax454tIHmvCnRc54z IWtdF83yDJO7uwz8XovQcU95veQGl6NNz5g3GSgtyQNhDcNdPej4dx1dF3Iivrk= =0/9F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 18:17:09 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:17:09 -0500 Subject: Setting up a Small Server Room In-Reply-To: <20111121174706.GB1036-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111121174706.GB1036@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4ECA95A5.5000006@gmail.com> don't need 2 racks for that. That's a HP blade system, 3/4 of a rack, ups, kvm, redundant, etc. I have designed a few, but i am intrigued by the latest claims of AC free low power servers. AC can be a nightmare as it will eventually break and leave your equipment in a sauna :(. Cost? HP based, with your own storage (as apposed to a NetApp, etc), 90k$ before cooling. If its worth doing, and down time would be costly for you, i would recommend only hp or ibm equipment. I would also recommend a additional unit as a backup to your backup, redundancy as dual, means you have none when your first piece fails :) If you want to build it yourself, and go cheap but quality, then 2-3 U cases with asus server boards. (be 60% the price, but use up more rack). Just my 0.02. In my experience with HP blade systems, 5years, 30+ blades, no failures. And multi-year uptimes. -tl On 11/21/2011 12:47 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I've been asked to collaborate on a grant proposal which includes a > small server room (1-2 racks, networking, cooling, UPS). I only know > enough to have an idea of what goes into such a room, and I what I need > is a set of costs. > > Can anyone on the list give me ballpark figures (and contact emails if > we get the grant and hire you to implement) for the following: > > 2-3 high powered web servers > Backup computer(s) and storage (actual data requirements are modest - > under 5 Tb) > Networking, firewalls, etc > Cabling, racks > Cooling > UPS > > All of these rounded to the nearest 4 figures. > > Thanks! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 18:32:28 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:32:28 -0500 Subject: Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: References: <4ECA7A7D.4090401@rogers.com> <20111121164015.GL6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ECA8B54.9010207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20111121183228.GN6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 01:11:23PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The typical multipart posting has plain text (encoded) in one part and > HTML (encoded) in the other part. Usually the text contains all the > information of the HTML version. > > The sometimes-mangled TLUG footer clearly states: > > So yes, there is something wrong with multipart MIME messages to TLUG :-) > > I, for one, dislike HTML mail. It doesn't work with my workflow. > Most mail that I get that is HTML is SPAM, marketing, or drivel. Oh certainly the HTML email is a waste of space and undesirable, but the format of the multipart was correct. It may violate policy of the list, but did not violate any standards. majordomo (or whatever is used) on the other hand is breaking things and violating standards. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 18:39:05 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:39:05 -0500 Subject: Setting up a Small Server Room In-Reply-To: <4ECA95A5.5000006-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111121174706.GB1036@yam.witteman.ca> <4ECA95A5.5000006@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111121183905.GO6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 01:17:09PM -0500, Ted wrote: > don't need 2 racks for that. > That's a HP blade system, 3/4 of a rack, ups, kvm, redundant, etc. > I have designed a few, but i am intrigued by the latest claims > of AC free low power servers. AC can be a nightmare as it will > eventually break and leave your equipment in a sauna :(. > Cost? HP based, with your own storage (as apposed to a NetApp, etc), > 90k$ before cooling. If its worth doing, and down time would be > costly for you, I was going to guess $50000, but I certainly wasn't thinking of blades. I know where I work we have one blade server, and if the IT department gets to have their way it will be the only one we ever have. They hate it for some reason. And I have no idea what AC costs to install either. > i would recommend only hp or ibm equipment. Never had an issue with IBM gear. I don't particularly like HP stuff. > I would also recommend a additional unit as a backup to your backup, > redundancy as dual, means you have none when your first piece fails :) > If you want to build it yourself, and go cheap but quality, then 2-3 U cases > with asus server boards. (be 60% the price, but use up more rack). > Just my 0.02. In my experience with HP blade systems, > 5years, 30+ blades, no failures. And multi-year uptimes. Can't disagree with that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 18:41:18 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:41:18 -0500 Subject: Setting up a Small Server Room In-Reply-To: <20111121183905.GO6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111121174706.GB1036@yam.witteman.ca> <4ECA95A5.5000006@gmail.com> <20111121183905.GO6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4ECA9B4E.8030103@alteeve.com> On 11/21/2011 01:39 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 01:17:09PM -0500, Ted wrote: >> don't need 2 racks for that. >> That's a HP blade system, 3/4 of a rack, ups, kvm, redundant, etc. >> I have designed a few, but i am intrigued by the latest claims >> of AC free low power servers. AC can be a nightmare as it will >> eventually break and leave your equipment in a sauna :(. >> Cost? HP based, with your own storage (as apposed to a NetApp, etc), >> 90k$ before cooling. If its worth doing, and down time would be >> costly for you, > > I was going to guess $50000, but I certainly wasn't thinking of blades. > I know where I work we have one blade server, and if the IT department > gets to have their way it will be the only one we ever have. They hate > it for some reason. And I have no idea what AC costs to install either. > >> i would recommend only hp or ibm equipment. > > Never had an issue with IBM gear. I don't particularly like HP stuff. > >> I would also recommend a additional unit as a backup to your backup, >> redundancy as dual, means you have none when your first piece fails :) >> If you want to build it yourself, and go cheap but quality, then 2-3 U cases >> with asus server boards. (be 60% the price, but use up more rack). >> Just my 0.02. In my experience with HP blade systems, >> 5years, 30+ blades, no failures. And multi-year uptimes. > > Can't disagree with that. > The main issue with the above is, I suspect, the "closest four digits" requirement. Anything HP/IBM will be, as you indicated, *way* over $10k. Also, on HPs, avoid the Proliant DL 1xx series. DL 36x G7 are good though. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "omg my singularity battery is dead again. stupid hawking radiation." - epitron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 18:44:07 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:44:07 -0500 Subject: Setting up a Small Server Room In-Reply-To: <20111121183905.GO6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111121174706.GB1036@yam.witteman.ca> <4ECA95A5.5000006@gmail.com> <20111121183905.GO6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4ECA9BF7.3090409@gmail.com> if your rack price and power hook up price isn't too high, i wouldn't go with blades (unless big budget and showcase needs), but sometimes those prices are SO high, that the blades can be competitive in the long run. -tl On 11/21/2011 01:39 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 01:17:09PM -0500, Ted wrote: >> don't need 2 racks for that. >> That's a HP blade system, 3/4 of a rack, ups, kvm, redundant, etc. >> I have designed a few, but i am intrigued by the latest claims >> of AC free low power servers. AC can be a nightmare as it will >> eventually break and leave your equipment in a sauna :(. >> Cost? HP based, with your own storage (as apposed to a NetApp, etc), >> 90k$ before cooling. If its worth doing, and down time would be >> costly for you, > I was going to guess $50000, but I certainly wasn't thinking of blades. > I know where I work we have one blade server, and if the IT department > gets to have their way it will be the only one we ever have. They hate > it for some reason. And I have no idea what AC costs to install either. > >> i would recommend only hp or ibm equipment. > Never had an issue with IBM gear. I don't particularly like HP stuff. > >> I would also recommend a additional unit as a backup to your backup, >> redundancy as dual, means you have none when your first piece fails :) >> If you want to build it yourself, and go cheap but quality, then 2-3 U cases >> with asus server boards. (be 60% the price, but use up more rack). >> Just my 0.02. In my experience with HP blade systems, >> 5years, 30+ blades, no failures. And multi-year uptimes. > Can't disagree with that. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 19:10:06 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:10:06 -0500 Subject: Setting up a Small Server Room In-Reply-To: <4ECA9B4E.8030103-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20111121174706.GB1036@yam.witteman.ca> <4ECA95A5.5000006@gmail.com> <20111121183905.GO6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ECA9B4E.8030103@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4ECAA20E.2040307@gmail.com> rounded to 4 digits, not a budget of 4 digits :) He just didn't want someone estimating to 100's of dollars of accuracy, i.e. spending a lot of time. -tl On 11/21/2011 01:41 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 11/21/2011 01:39 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 01:17:09PM -0500, Ted wrote: >>> don't need 2 racks for that. >>> That's a HP blade system, 3/4 of a rack, ups, kvm, redundant, etc. >>> I have designed a few, but i am intrigued by the latest claims >>> of AC free low power servers. AC can be a nightmare as it will >>> eventually break and leave your equipment in a sauna :(. >>> Cost? HP based, with your own storage (as apposed to a NetApp, etc), >>> 90k$ before cooling. If its worth doing, and down time would be >>> costly for you, >> I was going to guess $50000, but I certainly wasn't thinking of blades. >> I know where I work we have one blade server, and if the IT department >> gets to have their way it will be the only one we ever have. They hate >> it for some reason. And I have no idea what AC costs to install either. >> >>> i would recommend only hp or ibm equipment. >> Never had an issue with IBM gear. I don't particularly like HP stuff. >> >>> I would also recommend a additional unit as a backup to your backup, >>> redundancy as dual, means you have none when your first piece fails :) >>> If you want to build it yourself, and go cheap but quality, then 2-3 U cases >>> with asus server boards. (be 60% the price, but use up more rack). >>> Just my 0.02. In my experience with HP blade systems, >>> 5years, 30+ blades, no failures. And multi-year uptimes. >> Can't disagree with that. >> > The main issue with the above is, I suspect, the "closest four digits" > requirement. Anything HP/IBM will be, as you indicated, *way* over $10k. > > Also, on HPs, avoid the Proliant DL 1xx series. DL 36x G7 are good though. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 19:29:47 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:29:47 -0500 Subject: Setting up a Small Server Room In-Reply-To: <4ECA9B4E.8030103-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20111121174706.GB1036@yam.witteman.ca> <4ECA95A5.5000006@gmail.com> <20111121183905.GO6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ECA9B4E.8030103@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20111121192947.GA3983@yam.witteman.ca> Thanks to all. I know I don't need two racks for what I suggested, but it can be hard to build a room so small and still have adequate cooling, space for maintenance, etc. I appreciate the perspectives, because I have never deployed more than a webserver at a time, and always in existing infrastructure, so I needed more experience than I have - which I why I asked the list :-) I am not trying to set things up inexpensively - more like trying to get it done right - hiring someone to help work with us to chart out our potential requirements in detail, purchase, build and install the system and include an annual maintenance contract. Thanks again to all who responded. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 19:33:24 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:33:24 -0500 Subject: Setting up a Small Server Room In-Reply-To: <4ECAA20E.2040307-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111121174706.GB1036@yam.witteman.ca> <4ECA95A5.5000006@gmail.com> <20111121183905.GO6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ECA9B4E.8030103@alteeve.com> <4ECAA20E.2040307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111121193324.GA4430@yam.witteman.ca> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 02:10:06PM -0500, Ted wrote: >rounded to 4 digits, not a budget of 4 digits :) >He just didn't want someone estimating to 100's of dollars of >accuracy, i.e. spending a lot of time. Yes, exactly, thank you. Trying to figure out if I need to set aside $50k, $100k, $250k, etc. It looks like it'd be in the $100-200k range. That's a big help! I wouldn't know where to start, which is why I ask. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 19:47:43 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:47:43 -0500 Subject: Setting up a Small Server Room In-Reply-To: <20111121193324.GA4430-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111121174706.GB1036@yam.witteman.ca> <4ECA95A5.5000006@gmail.com> <20111121183905.GO6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ECA9B4E.8030103@alteeve.com> <4ECAA20E.2040307@gmail.com> <20111121193324.GA4430@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4ECAAADF.50107@gmail.com> one thing to add, that you reminded me off, with the HP and IBM "quotes", at least in what i experience with HP on my est. it includes 4 hour on premise service, which is obviously great, but factors in large to a HP (or IBM) estimate. You may not want that type of service. -tl On 11/21/2011 02:33 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 02:10:06PM -0500, Ted wrote: >> rounded to 4 digits, not a budget of 4 digits :) >> He just didn't want someone estimating to 100's of dollars of >> accuracy, i.e. spending a lot of time. > Yes, exactly, thank you. Trying to figure out if I need to set aside > $50k, $100k, $250k, etc. It looks like it'd be in the $100-200k range. > That's a big help! > > I wouldn't know where to start, which is why I ask. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 21:31:47 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:31:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Setting up a Small Server Room In-Reply-To: <20111121174706.GB1036-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111121174706.GB1036@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: | To: tlug | I've been asked to collaborate on a grant proposal which includes a | small server room (1-2 racks, networking, cooling, UPS). If this is for a U of T group, you might consider asking advice from various U of T groups. There is a U of T sysadmins group. Here's a list of mailing lists: Chris Siebenmann is a long-time U of T sysadmin and Unix guy. Also: Unix Unanimous used to be a place where sysadmins (including Chris) hung out. I only attend once a decade, so my knowledge is limited. There is *always* a question of whether to run your own server room or be hosted elsewhere on campus (or off). In fact, I remember fights about centralizing vs. distributing computing at the U of T dating back to the 1960s! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 21 21:33:38 2011 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:33:38 -0500 Subject: Gmail Backup In-Reply-To: References: <20111106073943.913024879chfnv2n@webmail.no-ip.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > You should take a look at this one:?http://www.gmail-backup.com/ Thanks all for the suggestions. I have bookmarked them for later investigation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 12:57:35 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R. Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:57:35 -0500 Subject: Debugging droid mta Message-ID: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9@email.android.com> I reviewed a couple of documents before sending this. The first was the tlug manefesto, in order to try and figure out if my debugging via the list resources was an abuse of list rules. http://gtalug.org/wiki/Manifesto I dunno, is my problem related to linux enough to continue to access this resource. You tell me, you are the many, I am the one. Majority rules etc... The other documents were related to whether or not the mta on android only sends in base 64. I have not as of yet seen any indication that this is the case. On the other hand there is a single clue in the history of the problem, in the link provided by Jamon, thanks by the way, the information in your links casts some light in an otherwise murky area. The response from gmail indicated that a single high bit character in the message would force the message to an encoded format rather than plain text. Debugging notes: Turned off parent sig. Turned off kluge sig. This message iniated from news app. Link inserted from clipboard budfer. Also, turned off latitude. Turned off google locate. Turned off gps and wireless networks. I take the right to personal privacy very seriously. In my mind this is a top security issue in the mobile environment. I abandoned MS fifteen years ago because I didn't want bill gates in my head. I sure didn't expect to trade him for google or any other of the other wannabe Illuminati skull and bonesers.<\grain of salt> Any trailer trash or borked text footer in this post? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15730499 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 14:34:40 2011 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:34:40 -0500 Subject: Debugging droid mta In-Reply-To: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9@email.android.com> Message-ID: <4ECBB300.8050008@gmail.com> On 22/11/2011 7:57 AM, R. Russell Reiter wrote: > I reviewed a couple of documents before sending this. The first was the > tlug manefesto, in order to try and figure out if my debugging via the > list resources was an abuse of list rules. > > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Manifesto > > I dunno, is my problem related to linux enough to continue to access > this resource. You tell me, you are the many, I am the one. Majority > rules etc... Bringing up the problem was cool, and the discussion about whether Android is on-topic or not was cool too. It looks like you're at the point where it's certainly a problem with the MUA not being able to send plain text messages to the list. > Any trailer trash or borked text footer in this post? > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15730499 The footer doesn't appear in Thunderbird, but it doesn't produce any junk. Your most recent message came through as dual-encoded. HTML and Plain Text. The sig is not part of the encoding, the list software is assuming plain text and doing a straight append. It'd be better if you could figure out how to get your software to post in plain text, but IMHO, unless somebody complains, it's a reasonable compromise for posting to the list. There was an old FAQ which explained it a *little* more, but somehow it got abandoned when the site got redesigned: http://gtalug.org/wiki/TLUG_Mailing_List_FAQ If I were in your shoes, I'd keep the settings you used for this recent post, then create my own test environment and take the discussion off-list. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 14:41:59 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:41:59 -0500 Subject: Debugging droid mta In-Reply-To: <4ECBB300.8050008-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9@email.android.com> <4ECBB300.8050008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ECBB4B7.9080305@utoronto.ca> On 11/22/2011 09:34 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: > The footer doesn't appear in Thunderbird, but it doesn't produce any > junk. Your most recent message came through as dual-encoded. HTML and > Plain Text. The sig is not part of the encoding, the list software is > assuming plain text and doing a straight append. > > It'd be better if you could figure out how to get your software to post > in plain text, but IMHO, unless somebody complains, it's a reasonable > compromise for posting to the list. There was an old FAQ which > explained it a *little* more, but somehow it got abandoned when the site > got redesigned: > > http://gtalug.org/wiki/TLUG_Mailing_List_FAQ > > If I were in your shoes, I'd keep the settings you used for this recent > post, then create my own test environment and take the discussion off-list. Christopher Browne mentioned raising the issue of a Majordomo -> Mailman migration at the next TLUG meeting. Seems like it would be a welcome change. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 15:40:34 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:40:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: (question) Loading/unloading C functions at runtime In-Reply-To: <1321976246.55416.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3OZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1321976246.55416.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1321976434.3358.YahooMailNeo@web113413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Opps... sent to wrong list.? Please disregard my previous post. :-) Hi All,?? just a question... Do you know any C application where you load and unload C functions at runtime?? The only thing that comes to my mind is Bash shell, where you can load/unload builtin functions (within *.so file) written by user. I'm interested in looking at other applications and see how they do it. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 15:44:38 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:44:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: privacy and Android [wsa Re: Debugging droid mta] In-Reply-To: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9@email.android.com> Message-ID: | From: R. Russell Reiter | I take the right to personal privacy very seriously. In | my mind this is a top security issue in the mobile environment. I | abandoned MS fifteen years ago because I didn't want bill gates in my | head. I sure didn't expect to trade him for google or any other of the | other wannabe Illuminati skull and bonesers.<\grain of salt> I don't know how to interpret , so I'll ignore it. I would like the right to privacy too. But on the other had, I reveal all sorts of stuff voluntarily (eg. postings to this list). The scary things I object to include: - involuntary loss of privacy. I include losses with pro forma submission. For example, when the entity can essentially force you to agree to get a necessary service (government, utilities, ...) - undisclosed loss of privacy. I include misuse of collected data. Example: Rogers knows what TV stations you are watching and when if you are using their Set Top Boxes. Have they ever admitted that? Or disclosed how they use the data or how they retain it? Now, on to cell phones in general and Android in particular. - the cell phone system knows where your phone is whenever it is in service. This is disclosed (at least) to government entities under certain protocols. It may well be disclosed other ways. Interestingly, this was justified for 911 purposes but the legislation requires it to be always-on, not just when 911 is dialled. - smart phones are moving towards location-aware services. That certainly involves location disclosure. You can often opt-out. Cynically, I wonder if that is provided because the effects of disclosure are visible to the suspect (local ads, etc.). - smart phones may well be bugged by the suppliers. For example: All the things that got said a decade or more ago about us living in Bentham's Panopticon seem to slowly becoming true. Consider, for example, Consider how the TTC is likely going to switch to smart cards -- way more traceable than tokens. Consider how much information charge card systems have about you compared with our old fashioned cash system. Notice how cash is being deprecated (try to rent a car or hotel room with cash). Consider what the banks are forced to report to the government under the rubric of fighting terrorism and organised crime. The ways we lose privacy are manifold but not manifest. Our understandings of privacy cannot encompass the complexity of the current and developing systems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 15:50:58 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:50:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: (question) Loading/unloading C functions at runtime In-Reply-To: <1321976434.3358.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOH6X00i2u5GFvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1321976246.55416.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1321976434.3358.YahooMailNeo@web113413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: William Park | Do you know any C application where you load and unload C functions | at runtime?? The only thing that comes to my mind is Bash shell, where | you can load/unload builtin functions (within *.so file) written by user. | I'm interested in looking at other applications and see how they do it. Anything called a "plugin" is likely an example. Browsers do this. The dynamic loader supports this kind of thing (i.e. *.so files). I don't know if unloading is supported. Think of Linux kernel modules. Other hacks are possible but are a lot of work and are fragile. Various things are using LLVM to generate on-the-fly code. Think of GIT compiling. The low performance way is to run a sub-process (eg. the system(3) function). From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 16:48:25 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:48:25 -0500 Subject: (question) Loading/unloading C functions at runtime In-Reply-To: <1321976434.3358.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOH6X00i2u5GFvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1321976246.55416.YahooMailNeo@web113402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1321976434.3358.YahooMailNeo@web113413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4ECBD259.9060400@ve3syb.ca> On 11-11-22 10:40 AM, William Park wrote: > Do you know any C application where you load and unload C functions > at runtime? GIMP loads plug-ins at run-time. TinyScheme can load extensions at run time. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 17:03:08 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:03:08 -0500 Subject: Debugging droid mta In-Reply-To: <4ECBB300.8050008-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9@email.android.com> <4ECBB300.8050008@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mike K. said: > If I were in your shoes, I'd keep the settings you used for this recent > post, then create my own test environment and take the discussion off-list. > Alas, my squeeze box's power supply went up in a puff of burnt varnish, so no test bed for the time being. Although I could pry the PS open to see if a 3 cent fused saved my components. The smell indicates not however. Interestingly enough a friend who has an understanding of analog electronics asked me "did it smell like a resistor." Anyone know what a burnt resistor smells like? > > -Mike > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 17:22:09 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:22:09 -0500 Subject: Debugging droid mta In-Reply-To: References: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9@email.android.com> <4ECBB300.8050008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111122172209.GP6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:03:08PM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: > Alas, my squeeze box's power supply went up in a puff of burnt > varnish, so no test bed for the time being. Although I could pry the > PS open to see if a 3 cent fused saved my components. The smell > indicates not however. > > Interestingly enough a friend who has an understanding of analog > electronics asked me "did it smell like a resistor." Anyone know what > a burnt resistor smells like? Unfortunately yes I do know. It is awful. Not sure how to describe it though. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 17:42:50 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:42:50 -0500 Subject: privacy and Android [wsa Re: Debugging droid mta] In-Reply-To: References: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9@email.android.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:44 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: R. Russell Reiter > > | I take the right to personal privacy very seriously. In > | my mind this is a top security issue in the mobile environment. I > | abandoned MS fifteen years ago because I didn't want bill gates in my > | head. I sure didn't expect to trade him for google or any other of the > | other wannabe Illuminati skull and bonesers.<\grain of salt> > > I don't know how to interpret , so I'll ignore it. Grain of salt is an old bakers term. To take something with a grain of salt is an indicator that, while salt on its own triggers receptors similar to bitter ones at the back of the tongue, you may add a little salt to a lesser amount of sugar in the recipe, the salt activates the tongue's side receptors and increases the sense of sweetness in the resulting product. The grain of salt in this is, my reference to who is collecting data, the way they are doing it and most importantly why they do it. > > I would like the right to privacy too. ?But on the other had, I reveal > all sorts of stuff voluntarily (eg. postings to this list). > > The scary things I object to include: > > - involuntary loss of privacy. ?I include losses with pro forma > ?submission. ?For example, when the entity can essentially force you > ?to agree to get a necessary service (government, utilities, ...) > > - undisclosed loss of privacy. ?I include misuse of collected data. > ?Example: Rogers knows what TV stations you are watching and when if > ?you are using their Set Top Boxes. ?Have they ever admitted that? ?Or > ?disclosed how they use the data or how they retain it? > > Now, on to cell phones in general and Android in particular. > > - the cell phone system knows where your phone is whenever it is in > ?service. ?This is disclosed (at least) to government entities under > ?certain protocols. ?It may well be disclosed other ways. > ?Interestingly, this was justified for 911 purposes but the > ?legislation requires it to be always-on, not just when 911 is > ?dialled. > > - smart phones are moving towards location-aware services. ?That > ?certainly involves location disclosure. ?You can often opt-out. > ?Cynically, I wonder if that is provided because the effects of > ?disclosure are visible to the suspect (local ads, etc.). You often cannot opt out. In the case of this android phone, apparently I cannot opt into a format which I can better control, in terms of self disclosure via email. I note that even after disabling the prominent "opt-in" choices, location, GPS etc, the weather clock, a part of the core services runs. Why bundle the two together except to tie everything to GIS content, the weather part, which may kick every communication from the device to base 64. It's one thing to do it for my needs, it's another to do it for google analytics. Please note this is my current working theory and until I have access to a test bed where I can install eclipse and have a virtual environment to work with, I will not be able to establish or refute it. I don't want to mod my phone, but I will if needs be. > > - smart phones may well be bugged by the suppliers. ?For example: > ? > > All the things that got said a decade or more ago about us living in > Bentham's Panopticon seem to slowly becoming true. ?Consider, for > example, > I call this running towards Orwell with arms wide open. Orwell didn't tell us that at first everyone loved big brother. It wasn't until the institution of the "two minute hate" that people started to balk. > > Consider how the TTC is likely going to switch to smart cards -- way > more traceable than tokens. > > Consider how much information charge card systems have about you > compared with our old fashioned cash system. ?Notice how cash is > being deprecated (try to rent a car or hotel room with cash). > > Consider what the banks are forced to report to the government under > the rubric of fighting terrorism and organised crime. Canadian banking rules are so much more tight lipped than other countries that when somebody in the Corsican mafia says they are coming to America they really mean Canada. N'drangheta have a significant stronghold, here in Toronto and in Montreal > > The ways we lose privacy are manifold but not manifest. ?Our > understandings of privacy cannot encompass the complexity of the > current and developing systems. As individuals we cannot "know it all" it is only in groups which foster open and sometimes out of the box discussion within the group, where adequate individual solutions/protections are developed. Just on a personal note I was quite dismayed that so many people who have the skills to block content by To: and From:, Subject and Body, chose rather to tell me to take my problem offline. I often forget that Open Source doesn't always evaluate to Open Mind. In fact a closed mind is often the prerequisite of appropriate sysadmin responsibility in enterprise solutions. However having said that, I don't take much of what happens on mail lists personally. It is easy to misread or misunderstand what is being said. I like to think I have a gentle good humor about things. As my Mom said "Russell, you're big enough, old enough and ugly enough to take care of yourself." In order to do this I sometimes use conflict resolution skills tools like SUDS (Subjective Units of Disclosure) when I venture into the wilds of Usenet. Thanks for your comments. I do value them and do think about what you say. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 18:50:28 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:50:28 -0500 Subject: privacy and Android [wsa Re: Debugging droid mta] In-Reply-To: References: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9@email.android.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:44 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I don't want to mod my phone, but I will if needs be. > >> >> - smart phones may well be bugged by the suppliers. ?For example: >> ? I'm in the same boat... and when I can get my hands on some additional hardware, I'm going for Plan 9 on my phone: >> All the things that got said a decade or more ago about us living in >> Bentham's Panopticon seem to slowly becoming true. ?Consider, for >> example, >> > > I call this running towards Orwell with arms wide open. Orwell didn't > tell us that at first everyone loved big brother. It wasn't until the > institution of the "two minute hate" that people started to balk. > >> >> Consider how the TTC is likely going to switch to smart cards -- way >> more traceable than tokens. Excellent example, and a reminder I need to finish an article. I brought this up to some msm writers & media types several weeks back (I'll save my story for the article ;-) - there does appear to be some interest from Toronto and Hamilton papers. When I first raised the issue, I referred to Cory Doctorow's "Little Brother": (I can't wait for the sequel!) >> >> The ways we lose privacy are manifold but not manifest. ?Our >> understandings of privacy cannot encompass the complexity of the >> current and developing systems. > > As individuals we cannot "know it all" it is only in groups which > foster open and sometimes out of the box discussion within the group, > where adequate individual solutions/protections are developed. ^ This: +1 -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 19:11:43 2011 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:11:43 -0500 Subject: Debugging droid mta In-Reply-To: References: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9@email.android.com> <4ECBB300.8050008@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 22 November 2011 12:03, Russell Reiter wrote: > Anyone know what a burnt resistor smells like? It depends on the type of resistor and the materials that it's made from. As Lennart stated, generally it's not very pleasant. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 22 20:22:18 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 15:22:18 -0500 Subject: Debugging droid mta In-Reply-To: References: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9@email.android.com> <4ECBB300.8050008@gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually that was a bit of a joke. What I believe happened is some of the transformer windings shorted out. Since they are wound as bare wires but then covered by a coat of varnish by the manufacturer, I think I can assume a short. The only data I have at hand re: transformers comes from an old tlug presentation from 2000, but the subject was latex markup and I kept the handout, my favorite haiku. :-) Yesterday it worked Today it does not Windows is like that What happened in my case was, I had just set up my new place after moving, computer first of course. I turned on the radio and made a cup of tea. What I didn't hear was the cooling fans winding up. What I did smell, I thought was coming from the burner. The lady who moved out had left the place spotless, I thought there was a little soap or other residue on the burner. The rest is history, so is PotAuFeu. Rescued from a harsh and abusively controlling OS you were a trusty old sod. I upgraded someone, got a sandbox out of the deal and Open Source got another Linux user. Under pressure I will set up dual boot for someone, but they have to talk me into it. On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Scott Allen wrote: > On 22 November 2011 12:03, Russell Reiter wrote: >> Anyone know what a burnt resistor smells like? > > It depends on the type of resistor and the materials that it's made > from. As Lennart stated, generally it's not very pleasant. > > -- > Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 06:52:55 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 01:52:55 -0500 Subject: privacy and Android [wsa Re: Debugging droid mta] In-Reply-To: References: <0edf269f-ec6e-4044-ac03-8eb3350468a9@email.android.com> Message-ID: <20111123065255.GA12953@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:44:38AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > The ways we lose privacy are manifold but not manifest. Our > understandings of privacy cannot encompass the complexity of the > current and developing systems. And of course, why spend billions setting up a tracking system, when people spill their guts on Facebook and Google+ and LinkedIn and Myspace etc, etc. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 13:58:49 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 08:58:49 -0500 Subject: Doom 3 is under GPL now... Message-ID: Small note, the first person shooter game Doom 3 has now been released under the GPL : https://github.com/TTimo/doom3.gpl The "catch" to all this is that the data files that define landscapes, monsters, sounds, music and weapons have not been made available under a public license. So, bad news for anyone wanting a free Doom 3, but great news for anyone wanting an excellent platform for creating their own games. My own take on Doom 3 can be seen here : ftp://ftp.linuxjournal.com/pub/tux/tux017.pdf . On bad days I've been known to claim that I was paid to play video games... Truth of course being that I got paid for writing an article, but before I could write the article I had to do some SERIOUS research :-) . After some of the 12 hour research sessions I did find my hands twitching a little ... :) . Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 15:34:22 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 07:34:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Doom 3 is under GPL now... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1322062462.71260.YahooMailNeo@web113411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Is there pre-compiled package (tar or rpm)? -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: Colin McGregor > To: tlug > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 8:58:49 AM > Subject: [TLUG]: Doom 3 is under GPL now... > > Small note, the first person shooter game Doom 3 has now been released > under the GPL : https://github.com/TTimo/doom3.gpl > > The "catch" to all this is that the data files that define landscapes, > monsters, sounds, music and weapons have not been made available under > a public license. So, bad news for anyone wanting a free Doom 3, but > great news for anyone wanting an excellent platform for creating their > own games. > > My own take on Doom 3 can be seen here : > ftp://ftp.linuxjournal.com/pub/tux/tux017.pdf . On bad days I've been > known to claim that I was paid to play video games... Truth of course > being that I got paid for writing an article, but before I could write > the article I had to do some SERIOUS research :-) . After some of the > 12 hour research sessions I did find my hands twitching a little ... > :) . > > > Colin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 16:33:33 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:33:33 -0500 Subject: Kernel Panic panic In-Reply-To: <20111108170443.GY30119-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111108164741.GA16902@amber> <20111108170443.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 8 November 2011 12:04, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 11:47:41AM -0500, Peter King wrote: >> After upgrading to 3.1.0, one of my computers began randomly crashing, usually >> after a day or two. The first time it happened I jotted down the start of the >> message: >> >> ? Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason 2d on CPU0. >> ? Do you have a strange powersaving mode enabled? >> ? Dazed and confused, but trying to continue >> ? Process swapper... >> ? >> ? Kernel Panic -not syncing: softlockup: hung tasks >> ? PID:0, comm: swapper Not tainted 3.1.0-gentoo #1 >> >> The other crashes have uniformly mentioned swapper and softlockup, but not NMI. >> My understanding, after googling around, is that this error message is not uncommon >> and not informative -- it says that swapper (pid 0) has quit doing its job, which, >> since it runs everything, doesn't say much about where the particular problem >> could lie. The other crashes also identify swapper as the hung process. >> >> I reverted to 3.0.6, to see whether it was a kernel problem, but now the computer >> has crashed again. Perhaps a problem with the 3.x kernels? >> >> Next time I get physically near it I'll run an extended version of memtest, to see >> whether this is caused by flaky memory. A few months ago this computer was too >> touchy to accept either new gigabyte ethernet cards or new RAM. Perhaps the hardware >> is failing. >> >> Any ideas for further diagnostics? The log files are completely uninformative. The >> filesystems are not even close to being full, and, up until recently, it seemed to >> be running reliably. Thanks for any suggestions. > > It seems to be an issue that has hit various people with 3.1, 3.0, 2.6.39, > etc, back to around 2.6.37. ?Something to do with an NMI watchdog rewrite > and some bad interaction with suspend/powermanagement. > > Seems it is still being worked on, since no one quite has figured out what happens. Sorry to revive an old thread, but thought my experience might be relevant to someone else. After this comment from Lennart and others in this thread, I switched from kernel 3.0.0 to kernel 2.6.32 and now suspend works just fine. I had guessed it was a kernel problem prior to this and changed kernels ... but I didn't go back far enough (I used 2.6.38). Essentially, suspend-to-ram would work 10 to 15 times. Then on the final suspend, it would fail to wake up - or worse, crash horribly. When I say "horribly," what happened was that the machine would immediately attempt to wake itself and then sleep again, and would power on and off every four seconds until I physically pulled the plug (even the power button long press and reset buttons didn't work). So yes, I was looking for a fix. What's frustrating about this is that the only reason I eventually found out about this bug was from reading GTALUG. It seems like a major bug that must have caused problems for a LOT of users, and yet it seems relatively unknown despite its longevity. At least I saw mention recently that a fix seems finally to have been found? I hope this is helpful to someone else ... -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 16:55:45 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 08:55:45 -0800 Subject: Kernel Panic panic In-Reply-To: References: <20111108164741.GA16902@amber> <20111108170443.GY30119@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I remember reading that recent kernel changes fixed a bunch of, long-standing power-related issues. Perhaps that was part of it On Nov 23, 2011 8:34 AM, "Giles Orr" wrote: > On 8 November 2011 12:04, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 08, 2011 at 11:47:41AM -0500, Peter King wrote: > >> After upgrading to 3.1.0, one of my computers began randomly crashing, > usually > >> after a day or two. The first time it happened I jotted down the start > of the > >> message: > >> > >> Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason 2d on CPU0. > >> Do you have a strange powersaving mode enabled? > >> Dazed and confused, but trying to continue > >> Process swapper... > >> > >> Kernel Panic -not syncing: softlockup: hung tasks > >> PID:0, comm: swapper Not tainted 3.1.0-gentoo #1 > >> > >> The other crashes have uniformly mentioned swapper and softlockup, but > not NMI. > >> My understanding, after googling around, is that this error message is > not uncommon > >> and not informative -- it says that swapper (pid 0) has quit doing its > job, which, > >> since it runs everything, doesn't say much about where the particular > problem > >> could lie. The other crashes also identify swapper as the hung process. > >> > >> I reverted to 3.0.6, to see whether it was a kernel problem, but now > the computer > >> has crashed again. Perhaps a problem with the 3.x kernels? > >> > >> Next time I get physically near it I'll run an extended version of > memtest, to see > >> whether this is caused by flaky memory. A few months ago this computer > was too > >> touchy to accept either new gigabyte ethernet cards or new RAM. Perhaps > the hardware > >> is failing. > >> > >> Any ideas for further diagnostics? The log files are completely > uninformative. The > >> filesystems are not even close to being full, and, up until recently, > it seemed to > >> be running reliably. Thanks for any suggestions. > > > > It seems to be an issue that has hit various people with 3.1, 3.0, > 2.6.39, > > etc, back to around 2.6.37. Something to do with an NMI watchdog rewrite > > and some bad interaction with suspend/powermanagement. > > > > Seems it is still being worked on, since no one quite has figured out > what happens. > > Sorry to revive an old thread, but thought my experience might be > relevant to someone else. > > After this comment from Lennart and others in this thread, I switched > from kernel 3.0.0 to kernel 2.6.32 and now suspend works just fine. I > had guessed it was a kernel problem prior to this and changed kernels > ... but I didn't go back far enough (I used 2.6.38). Essentially, > suspend-to-ram would work 10 to 15 times. Then on the final suspend, > it would fail to wake up - or worse, crash horribly. When I say > "horribly," what happened was that the machine would immediately > attempt to wake itself and then sleep again, and would power on and > off every four seconds until I physically pulled the plug (even the > power button long press and reset buttons didn't work). So yes, I was > looking for a fix. > > What's frustrating about this is that the only reason I eventually > found out about this bug was from reading GTALUG. It seems like a > major bug that must have caused problems for a LOT of users, and yet > it seems relatively unknown despite its longevity. > > At least I saw mention recently that a fix seems finally to have been > found? > > I hope this is helpful to someone else ... > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 19:15:52 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:15:52 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? Message-ID: I've been reviewing the GTALUG message archive looking for transient TR anomalies in posts related to my android problem. Also, I have been reviewing some of the bug reports and am exploring this theory in respect of the wisdom of reusing bash code when porting to ARM. Bash syntax is so well noted for it's quoting, that it may be rather a pain to port. Quoting with out authoritative reference, so to speak. I note that many of the reported errors on this bug, which google may be exploiting as a feature, involve the inability to correctly join parts of a message. Whether it is just mime or plain text as well, this part is still not clear to me, as I have as of yet been unable to coax the mta to plain text. It looks to me as if the google server upon receiving the droid's data, chokes on multiple mime pushes from the device. High bit characters are being orphaned as they pop off the stack. Instead of the bits being authoritatively collected for /dev/null, when initiated the mua, snarfs the high character bits up as part of any email message and then the transport server(s), not the device, lack the ability to adequately parse and recombine the different parts. Considering the number of mobile apps which must connect to the internet in order to work correctly and especially those which might involve GIS data formats, having a mta which handles only base 64 is a likely possibility. I've downloaded source for cyanogen mod for my Huawei U8100 and put it in my dropbox along with a more updated kernel here. http://db.tt/fmSwSLJ3 Should have a new squeeze box soon. If anybody has the same phone and gets to the mod before I do please let me know. I'm a real die hard. I expect to be able to make my linux to send plain text when I want it to. Russell -- About me: A poem went off this morning Like an old wind up clock on my mantle It shattered sleep and clattered it's way into consciousness -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 19:48:40 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:48:40 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: > > I'm a real die hard. I expect to be able to make my linux to send > plain text when I want it to. What do you mean by ?plain text?? Plain ASCII? That's harder to do these days ? input systems will [rightly, I believe] correct legacy ASCII characters into more typographically correct Unicode glyphs. What was done in the past as a typewriter approximation should not continue on for eternity. After all, it used to be correct to type ?l? for ?1? ? Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 20:03:47 2011 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:03:47 -0800 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: > I've been reviewing the GTALUG message archive looking for transient > TR anomalies in posts related to my android problem. Also, I have been > reviewing some of the bug reports and am exploring this theory in > respect of the wisdom of reusing bash code when porting to ARM. Can you explain what "reusing bash code when porting to ARM" has to do with a mail client or server that only sends base64-encoded text or a mailing list server that incorrectly appends non-encoded text to an encoded email? > Bash syntax is so well noted for it's quoting, that it may be rather a > pain to port. According to http://www.aosabook.org/en/bash.html, the Bash parser is implemented with Yacc or Bison, so I'd be very surprised if the relative ease of porting Bash has anything to do with its quoting abilities. > Considering the number of mobile apps which must connect to the > internet in order to work correctly and especially those which might > involve GIS data formats, having a mta which handles only base 64 is a > likely possibility. By GIS, do you mean "Geographic information system" as described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_information_system ? If so, can you explain why GIS data formats used on a random mobile device would impact SMTP in any way? > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists The signature came through this time, so I looked and this last mail of yours came through as text/plain, which the apparently-decrepit list software handles just fine; perhaps you've found the magic "plain text only" switch? Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 20:14:46 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:14:46 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Stewart Russell wrote: > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: >> >> I'm a real die hard. I expect to be able to make my linux to send >> plain text when I want it to. > > What do you mean by ?plain text?? Plain ASCII? That's harder to do Sorry yes, I meant ASCII. > these days ? input systems will [rightly, I believe] correct legacy > ASCII characters into more typographically correct Unicode glyphs. > What was done in the past as a typewriter approximation should not > continue on for eternity. After all, it used to be correct to type ?l? > for ?1? ?? I think that having the ability to send email in ASCII is a little like carrying a spare tire in the trunk. (travel spare) Even though you have puncture proof tires on your car, what do you do if the tire gets shredded by road conditions. In my opinion, universality of access shouldn't be deprecated, especially in open source environments. I think Jerry Peak referrers to this as "feeping creaturisim." Features are added without an understanding or regard for the underlying format on which their predecessors have been developed. Of course "out with the old, in with the new" and "a new broom sweeps clean" are the mantra of some futurists. Idiomatically my answer to this is "Make new friends but keep the old, one is sliver, the other is gold." Russell > > ?Stewart > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- About me: A poem went off this morning Like an old wind up clock on my mantle. It shattered sleep and clattered it's way into consciousness -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 20:26:56 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:26:56 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Russell Reiter wrote: >> I've been reviewing the GTALUG message archive looking for transient >> TR anomalies in posts related to my android problem. Also, I have been >> reviewing some of the bug reports and am exploring this theory in >> respect of the wisdom of reusing bash code when porting to ARM. > > Can you explain what "reusing bash code when porting to ARM" has to do > with a mail client or server that only sends base64-encoded text or a > mailing list server that incorrectly appends non-encoded text to an > encoded email? I don't know the mta only sends base-64. It looks like it should be able to handle ASCII as well. > >> Bash syntax is so well noted for it's quoting, that it may be rather a >> pain to port. > > According to http://www.aosabook.org/en/bash.html, the Bash parser is > implemented with Yacc or Bison, so I'd be very surprised if the > relative ease of porting Bash has anything to do with its quoting > abilities. I noted that in some of the bug reports in respect of how gmail handles data that "" was showing up as orphaned strings, in terms of recombining headers and data. Whether or not this is strictly with mime, or carries over to plain ASCII, I'm not sure. > >> Considering the number of mobile apps which must connect to the >> internet in order to work correctly and especially those which might >> involve GIS data formats, having a mta which handles only base 64 is a >> likely possibility. > > By GIS, do you mean "Geographic information system" as described here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_information_system ? > > If so, can you explain why GIS data formats used on a random mobile > device would impact SMTP in any way? The constant cartographic data, in respect of reporting device location by GPS and other methods, which is being pushed from the device, is overrunning the stack and clobbering the smtp pattern buffer with high bit characters. > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > The signature came through this time, so I looked and this last mail > of yours came through as text/plain, which the apparently-decrepit > list software handles just fine; perhaps you've found the magic "plain > text only" switch? Did both my sig and the appended tlug sig transport? Thanks Russell > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- About me: A poem went off this morning Like an old wind up clock on my mantle. It shattered sleep and clattered it's way into consciousness -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 21:10:26 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:10:26 -0500 Subject: Droid Testing for IFS vulnerability Message-ID: This code is from; Practicial UNIX $ Internet Security Simson Garfinkel & Gene Spafford I installed a terminal app on the droid. I'm going to run this tonight on the default shell, see what I get back. ============= cd /tmp cat > tmp <<'E-O-F' echo "Danger!" echo "Your shell does NOT reset the IFS variable!" E-O-F cat > foo <<"E-O-F" echo "Your shell appears well behaved." E-O-F cat > test$$ <<"E-O-F" /tmp/foo E-O-F chmod 700 tmp foo test$$ PATH=.:$PATH IFS="/$IFS" export PATH IFS test$$ rm -f tmp foo test$$ =========== IFS passwd Hack =========== #!/bin/sh IFS=":" while read acct passwd uid gid gcos homedir shell do echo $acct " " $homedir done < /etc/passwd =========== -- About me: A poem went off this morning Like an old wind up clock on my mantle. It shattered sleep and clattered it's way into consciousness -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 21:31:03 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:31:03 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console Message-ID: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> Greetings, I'm trying to install a Debian KVM guest over a console connection. I think that the key is -x option for virt-install. I have this: #!/bin/sh virt-install -n nwtest --description "Test host" -r 512 -vcpus 1 \ --os-type=linux --os-variant=debiansqueeze \ --disk /srv/virtual/nwtest,device=disk,bus=virtio,size=3 \ --cdrom /srv/virtual/debian-6.0.3-amd64-businesscard.iso \ --network bridge=br0,model=virtio \ --nographics --autostart -x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8" I also tried with the last line being: --nographics --autostart -x "install console=ttyS0,9600n8p" Each time I get this: ettin:/srv/virtual# /home/neil/neil/docs/it/kvm.sh Starting install... Allocating 'nwtest' Creating domain... Connected to domain nwtest Escape character is ^] Even after several minutes of waiting a console never appears. What have I done wrong? Sincerely, -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 22:04:06 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:04:06 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111123213103.GA11486-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4ECD6DD6.8030701@utoronto.ca> On 11/23/2011 04:31 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > I also tried with the last line being: > --nographics --autostart -x "install console=ttyS0,9600n8p" > > Each time I get this: > ettin:/srv/virtual# /home/neil/neil/docs/it/kvm.sh > Starting install... > Allocating > 'nwtest' > Creating > domain... > Connected to domain nwtest > Escape character is ^] > > Even after several minutes of waiting a console never appears. What have > I done wrong? It looks like ---nographics is causing the problem. From the man page: --nographics No graphical console will be allocated for the guest. Fully virtualized guests (Xen FV or QEmu/KVM) will need to have a text console configured on the first serial port in the guest (this can be done via the --extra-args option). Xen PV will set this up automatically. The command 'virsh console NAME' can be used to connect to the serial device. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 22:09:33 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:09:33 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <4ECD6DD6.8030701-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECD6DD6.8030701@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20111123220933.GA12860@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 05:04:06PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: >It looks like ---nographics is causing the problem. From the man page: That prevents the vnc viewer from popping up. I do not think it is related to the serial console. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 22:30:08 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:30:08 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111123213103.GA11486-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20111123223008.GQ6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 04:31:03PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > Greetings, > > I'm trying to install a Debian KVM guest over a console connection. > I think that the key is -x option for virt-install. I have this: > > #!/bin/sh > > virt-install -n nwtest --description "Test host" -r 512 -vcpus 1 \ > --os-type=linux --os-variant=debiansqueeze \ > --disk /srv/virtual/nwtest,device=disk,bus=virtio,size=3 \ > --cdrom /srv/virtual/debian-6.0.3-amd64-businesscard.iso \ > --network bridge=br0,model=virtio \ > --nographics --autostart -x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8" > > I also tried with the last line being: > --nographics --autostart -x "install console=ttyS0,9600n8p" > > Each time I get this: > ettin:/srv/virtual# /home/neil/neil/docs/it/kvm.sh > > Starting install... > Allocating 'nwtest' > Creating domain... > Connected to domain nwtest > Escape character is ^] > > Even after several minutes of waiting a console never appears. What have > I done wrong? I think trying to use the iso is your mistake. I don't think the iso works with a serial console on PCs. At least I don't know anyway to pass the console parameters through the cd boot loader to the kernel that way. unless virt-install is a lot better than it was last time I looked at it, I just don't see that working. Is it documented that it should work that way? They do have a lot of neat features, so who knows. Are you perhaps supposed to find the serial consolse using 'virsh console tty0' or something? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 23 22:38:58 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:38:58 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111123223008.GQ6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111123223008.GQ6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111123223858.GA13897@watson-wilson.ca> I think that KVM attempts the correct console connection. I can do it with existing guest installs, after altering the guest's kernel boot parameter. I believe that the Debian installer is the issue. Either it can't do it or it needs different parameters passed to it via the -x switch. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 03:31:03 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:31:03 -0500 Subject: gconf bug on Debian Unstable Message-ID: I've been delaying the usual upgrades to my Debian Unstable system because of this: Retrieving bug reports... Done Parsing Found/Fixed information... Done grave bugs of gconf2 (2.32.4-1 -> 3.2.3-1) #648836 - gnome-terminal: GConf Error: Configuration server couldn't be contacted Merged with: 648673 serious bugs of libgconf2-4 (2.32.4-1 -> 3.2.3-1) #649112 - ABI breakage without SONAME bump (gconf_engine_key_is_writable removed) Summary: gconf2(1 bug), libgconf2-4(1 bug) When I look at the bug report here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=648673 There are a few people who say that simply logging out and back in again solves the problem. Anyone on here with Debian Unstable confirm this? -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 13:41:43 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:41:43 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111123213103.GA11486-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> An update. The virt-install man page says: -x EXTRA, --extra-args=EXTRA Additional kernel command line arguments to pass to the installer when performing a guest install from "--location". So using the CDROM option with extra-args would fail. I tried the location option and an unexpected error was returned. ettin:/srv/virtual# /home/neil/neil/docs/it/kvm.sh ERROR Only one install method (--pxe, --location, --cdrom, --import) can be used ettin:/srv/virtual# cat !$ cat /home/neil/neil/docs/it/kvm.sh #!/bin/sh virt-install -n nwtest --description 'Test host' -r 512 -vcpus 1 \ --os-type=linux --os-variant=debiansqueeze \ --disk /srv/virtual/nwtest,device=disk,bus=virtio,size=3 \ --network bridge=br0,model=virtio \ --nographics \ --autostart \ -l http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/main/installer-amd64/ \ -x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8"eil Watson I have yet to understand what the error means. -- Neil H. Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 14:47:54 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:47:54 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111124134143.GA9132-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Incorrect variable interpolation on this line maybe? Whether or not it's coming from the logger or the process is a question I'd ask myself. Like where did the N in Neil go and what booted it out of the string? > ? ? ? ?-x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8"eil Watson > > I have yet to understand what the error means. > > -- > Neil H. Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- About me: A poem went off this morning Like an old wind up clock on my mantle. It shattered sleep and clattered it's way into consciousness -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 14:54:41 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:54:41 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20111124145441.GA11475@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 09:47:54AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: >Like where did the N in Neil go and what booted it out of the string? > >> ? ? ? ?-x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8"eil Watson Alas, that is just a paste error in the email. Correction: #!/bin/sh virt-install -n nwtest --description 'Test host' -r 512 -vcpus 1 \ --os-type=linux --os-variant=debiansqueeze \ --disk /srv/virtual/nwtest,device=disk,bus=virtio,size=3 \ --network bridge=br0,model=virtio \ --nographics \ --autostart \ -l http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ \ -x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8" -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 14:57:03 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:57:03 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111124145441.GA11475-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124145441.GA11475@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: What about the baud rate in this line? --nographics --autostart -x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8" On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 09:47:54AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: >> >> Like where did the N in Neil go and what booted it out of the string? >> >>> ? ? ? ?-x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8"eil Watson > > Alas, that is just a paste error in the email. ?Correction: > > #!/bin/sh > > virt-install -n nwtest --description 'Test host' -r 512 -vcpus 1 \ > ? ? ? ?--os-type=linux --os-variant=debiansqueeze \ > ? ? ? ?--disk /srv/virtual/nwtest,device=disk,bus=virtio,size=3 \ > ? ? ? ?--network bridge=br0,model=virtio \ > ? ? ? ?--nographics \ > ? ? ? ?--autostart \ > ? ? ? ?-l > http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ > \ > ? ? ? ?-x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8" > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- About me: A poem went off this morning Like an old wind up clock on my mantle. It shattered sleep and clattered it's way into consciousness -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 15:09:00 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:09:00 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124145441.GA11475@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20111124150900.GA11837@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 09:57:03AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: >What about the baud rate in this line? > >--nographics --autostart -x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8" I'm not sure what you mean. I changed to single quotes but that did not help. virt-install log shows this: [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (cli:192) Launched with command line: /usr/bin/virt-install -n nwtest --description Test host -r 512 -vcpus 1 --os-type=linux --os-variant=debiansqueeze --disk /srv/virtual/nwtest,device=disk,bus=virtio,size=3 --network bridge=br0,model=virtio --nographics --autostart -l http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ -x console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8 [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (cli:216) Requesting libvirt URI default [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (cli:218) Received libvirt URI qemu:///system [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (virt-install:473) Requesting virt method 'hvm', hv type 'default'. [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (virt-install:795) Received virt method 'hvm' [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (virt-install:796) Hypervisor name is 'kvm' [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (virt-install:330) parse_disk: returning {'format': None, 'bus': 'virtio', 'readOnly': False, 'volInstall': None, 'path': '/srv/virtual/nwtest', 'device': 'disk', 'volName': None, 'conn': , 'size': 3.0, 'driverCache': None, 'shareable': False, 'sparse': True} [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (VirtualDisk:864) Path '/srv/virtual' is target for pool 'neil'. Creating volume 'nwtest'. [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] ERROR (cli:196) Only one install method (--pxe, --location, --cdrom, --import) can be used -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 15:09:07 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:09:07 -0500 Subject: Suggestion on samba & anonymous FTP setup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Andrej, > > It's not something I've done myself, but to me it seems that username1 has a > diffrent ID on the samba host than the ftp host (and that the samba host has > no user with ID 500). > > That said, it's been years since I've dealt with samba but I'm pretty sure > it can be configured to ignore the underlying UNIX permissions on files. Or > you could allow a group with an ID that's common on both hosts read access > to all the files, and tell Samba to use that group. > Thank you a lot. This happened to be the problem. When I created a local user again and matched it to the LDAP uid, samba worked as I was expecting. It actually made sense now that initially, the directory was owned by user 500 - existed on FTP, but there was no user with that ID on samba server. So, the server replaced "username1" with uid 500 William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 15:11:11 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:11:11 -0500 Subject: Suggestion on samba & anonymous FTP setup In-Reply-To: <924e2a3lhn0p7vc5gppbausp.1321446082255-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <924e2a3lhn0p7vc5gppbausp.1321446082255@email.android.com> Message-ID: Russ On 16 November 2011 07:40, Russ wrote: > Have a look at using force create mode and force directory mode for the share you defined in smb.conf. > > Default smbd sets r bit for owner of a file and rwx for owner of a directory when changing permissions or creating file system objects, regardless of the create mask or force create mode parameters. > > Tweaking these four lines may help make your permissions stick across symetric message blocks. > > create mask=0660 > force create mode=0660 > directory mask=0770 > force directory mode=0770 > > This example from teach your self samba in 24 hrs prevents a user from being able to create a read only file for self or group. > This would not have worked as the directory was mounted read only. I am using ext3 and since you can not mount ext3 on two server read write, I was forced to mount it read only on samba server William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 15:14:41 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:14:41 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111124150900.GA11837-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124145441.GA11475@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124150900.GA11837@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 09:57:03AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: >> >> What about the baud rate in this line? Try changing 115200n8 to 115200 n8 1 somehow. >> >> --nographics --autostart -x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8" > > I'm not sure what you mean. ?I changed to single quotes but that did not > help. ?virt-install log shows this: > > [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (cli:192) Launched with > command line: > /usr/bin/virt-install -n nwtest --description Test host -r 512 -vcpus 1 > --os-type=linux --os-variant=debiansqueeze --disk > /srv/virtual/nwtest,device=disk,bus=virtio,size=3 --network > bridge=br0,model=virtio --nographics --autostart -l > http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ > -x console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8 > [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (cli:216) Requesting > libvirt URI default > [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (cli:218) Received > libvirt URI qemu:///system > [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (virt-install:473) > Requesting virt method 'hvm', hv type 'default'. > [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (virt-install:795) > Received virt method 'hvm' > [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (virt-install:796) > Hypervisor name is 'kvm' > [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (virt-install:330) > parse_disk: returning {'format': None, 'bus': 'virtio', 'readOnly': False, > 'volInstall': None, 'path': '/srv/virtual/nwtest', 'device': 'disk', > 'volName': None, 'conn': , 'size': > 3.0, 'driverCache': None, 'shareable': False, 'sparse': True} > [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (VirtualDisk:864) Path > '/srv/virtual' is target for pool 'neil'. Creating volume 'nwtest'. > [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] ERROR (cli:196) Only one > install method (--pxe, --location, --cdrom, --import) can be used > > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- About me: A poem went off this morning Like an old wind up clock on my mantle. It shattered sleep and clattered it's way into consciousness -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 15:21:41 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:21:41 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124145441.GA11475@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124150900.GA11837@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20111124152141.GA12402@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:14:41AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: >Try changing 115200n8 to 115200 n8 1 somehow. I can remove the entire -x line but still get the original error. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 15:49:02 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:49:02 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111124150900.GA11837-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124145441.GA11475@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124150900.GA11837@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 09:57:03AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: >> >> What about the baud rate in this line? >> >> --nographics --autostart -x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8" > > I'm not sure what you mean. ?I changed to single quotes but that did not > help. ?virt-install log shows this: > > [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] DEBUG (cli:192) Launched with > command line: > /usr/bin/virt-install -n nwtest --description Test host -r 512 -vcpus 1 > --os-type=linux --os-variant=debiansqueeze --disk > /srv/virtual/nwtest,device=disk,bus=virtio,size=3 --network > bridge=br0,model=virtio --nographics --autostart -l > http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ > -x console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8 Try removing n8 from the string. This will set the transmission rate parameter. Perhaps the virtual volume gets its sizing from this number. > [Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:05:09 virt-install 11889] ERROR (cli:196) This looks like a Common Language Interface error. Perhaps the TR function of some code is clobbering the space that really should exist between 115200 and N8. I don't know if the 1 is really necessary after the N8 to set the primary serial device. Only one > install method (--pxe, --location, --cdrom, --import) can be used Error messages are often cryptic. Perhaps the baud rate is defaulting to 9600 and it's evaluating the conflicting data incorrectly. > > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- About me: A poem went off this morning Like an old wind up clock on my mantle. It shattered sleep and clattered it's way into consciousness -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 15:52:56 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:52:56 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111124134143.GA9132-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20111124155256.GR6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 08:41:43AM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > An update. > > The virt-install man page says: > -x EXTRA, --extra-args=EXTRA > Additional kernel command line arguments to pass to the installer when performing a > guest install from "--location". > > So using the CDROM option with extra-args would fail. I tried the location > option and an unexpected error was returned. > > ettin:/srv/virtual# /home/neil/neil/docs/it/kvm.sh > ERROR Only one install method (--pxe, --location, --cdrom, --import) can be used > > ettin:/srv/virtual# cat !$ > cat /home/neil/neil/docs/it/kvm.sh > #!/bin/sh > > virt-install -n nwtest --description 'Test host' -r 512 -vcpus 1 \ > --os-type=linux --os-variant=debiansqueeze \ > --disk /srv/virtual/nwtest,device=disk,bus=virtio,size=3 \ > --network bridge=br0,model=virtio \ > --nographics \ > --autostart \ > -l http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/dists/squeeze/main/installer-amd64/ \ > -x "console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200n8"eil Watson > > I have yet to understand what the error means. -c = --cdrom So since you put -vcpus rather than --vcpus, it thinks you wanted -v and -c. Right now you have --cdrom set to 'pus' :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 15:59:44 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:59:44 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111124155256.GR6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124155256.GR6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111124155944.GA14200@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:52:56AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >-c = --cdrom >So since you put -vcpus rather than --vcpus, it thinks you wanted -v and -c. > >Right now you have --cdrom set to 'pus' :) Hurray, that was it. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 16:13:25 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:13:25 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111124155944.GA14200-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124155256.GR6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111124155944.GA14200@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20111124161325.GS6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:59:44AM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:52:56AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >-c = --cdrom > >So since you put -vcpus rather than --vcpus, it thinks you wanted -v and -c. > > > >Right now you have --cdrom set to 'pus' :) > > Hurray, that was it. It took adding debug prints to virt-install and getting cdrom=pus to spot it. It all looked right. So now it works? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 16:24:03 2011 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:24:03 -0500 Subject: gconf bug on Debian Unstable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > There are a few people who say that simply logging out and back in > again solves the problem. Anyone on here with Debian Unstable confirm > this? I briefly had GNOME 3 fallback mode running with unstable/experimental last night, and noticed Terminal was available as a menu selection, but not gnome-terminal. I'll verify the distinction as soon as I unclobber my video driver (I replaced the 2D nouveau with a non-working nvidia module). Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 16:41:14 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:41:14 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111124161325.GS6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124155256.GR6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111124155944.GA14200@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124161325.GS6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111124164114.GA15702@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:13:25AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >So now it works? I am closer. The boot starts and the console works. Now it's hanging at 'Downloading Release files' after a choose a mirror. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 16:57:05 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:57:05 -0800 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: <20111124164114.GA15702-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124155256.GR6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111124155944.GA14200@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124161325.GS6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111124164114.GA15702@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Are you behind a proxy? Did your machine get a valid IP/gateway config On Nov 24, 2011 8:41 AM, "Neil Watson" wrote: > On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:13:25AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> So now it works? >> > > I am closer. The boot starts and the console works. Now it's hanging > at 'Downloading Release files' after a choose a mirror. > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 18:07:42 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:07:42 -0500 Subject: Debian install over console In-Reply-To: References: <20111123213103.GA11486@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124134143.GA9132@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124155256.GR6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111124155944.GA14200@watson-wilson.ca> <20111124161325.GS6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111124164114.GA15702@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20111124180742.GA18455@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 08:57:05AM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Are you behind a proxy? Did your machine get a valid IP/gateway config No proxy. I suspect some sort of DHCP and MTU issue. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 18:45:09 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 13:45:09 -0500 Subject: MTU problem Message-ID: <20111124184509.GA19625@watson-wilson.ca> I have a Linux host that uses pppoe for an Internet connection. The interface ppp0 has a MTU of 1482. The same host also has some KMV guests attached to a bridge. They get their IP's from a DHCP server on this host. By default guest interfaces are set to an MTU of 1500. This leads slow or none working connections out to the internet. If I manually set the MTU to below ppp0 (1472) networking works normally. I did set the DHCP service to give out the 1472 MTU setting to clients. Now I'm trying to build more Debian guests. It seems that the Debian installer used the DHCP client but ignores the MTU setting. The interface is set to MTU 1500. This seemingly cause the download portion of the install to fail. Is there a better way to go about this? Have I used the wrong settings on DHCP? # # Sample configuration file for ISC dhcpd for Debian # # $Id: dhcpd.conf,v 1.4.2.2 2002/07/10 03:50:33 peloy Exp $ # # option definitions common to all supported networks... option domain-name "watson-wilson.ca"; option domain-name-servers 216.129.193.14, 216.129.193.130; option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0; option interface-mtu 1472; default-lease-time 600; max-lease-time 7200; subnet 192.168.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 { range 192.168.0.2 192.168.0.20; option broadcast-address 192.168.0.255; option routers 192.168.0.1; option interface-mtu 1472; } host pluto{ hardware ethernet 00:22:15:71:3c:ee; fixed-address 192.168.0.10; } host print0{ hardware ethernet 00:21:b7:a0:13:c8; fixed-address 192.168.0.19; } -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 19:58:33 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 14:58:33 -0500 Subject: Droid SMTP [padding the stack] TRansitional errors causing overflow? Message-ID: Some info and a couple of questions in pursuit of ASCII email messaging from my droid. Bare LF's in Message bodies are not allowed per RFC 2821: 2.3.7 Lines SMTP commands and, unless altered by a service extension, message data, are transmitted in "lines". Lines consist of zero or more data characters terminated by the sequence ASCII character "CR" (hex value 0D) followed immediately by ASCII character "LF" (hex value 0A). This termination sequence is denoted as in this document. Conforming implementations MUST NOT recognize or generate any other character or character sequence as a line terminator. Limits MAY be imposed on line lengths by servers (see section 4.5.3). In addition, the appearance of "bare" "CR" or "LF" characters in text (i.e., either without the other) has a long history of causing problems in mail implementations and applications that use the mail system as a tool. SMTP client implementations MUST NOT transmit these characters except when they are intended as line terminators and then MUST, as indicated above, transmit them only as a sequence. Is this actually a violation of the RFC? if a body is base64 encoded, the LF can not be mistakenly interpreted as an SMTP line terminator, can it? RFC 3548 2.3. Interpretation of non-alphabet characters in encoded data Base encoding uses a specific, reduced, alphabet to encode binary data. Non alphabet characters could exist within base encoded data, caused by data corruption or by design. Non alphabet characters may be exploited as a "covert channel", where non-protocol data can be sent for nefarious purposes. Non alphabet characters might also be sent in order to exploit implementation errors leading to, e.g., buffer overflow attacks. Implementations MUST reject the encoding if it contains characters outside the base alphabet when interpreting base encoded data, unless the specification referring to this document explicitly states otherwise. Such specifications may, as MIME does, instead state that characters outside the base encoding alphabet should simply be ignored when interpreting data ("be liberal in what you accept"). Note that this means that any CRLF constitute "non alphabet characters" and are ignored. Furthermore, such specifications may consider the pad character, "=", as not part of the base alphabet until the end of the string. If more than the allowed number of pad characters are found at the end of the string, e.g., a base 64 string terminated with "===", the excess pad characters could be ignored. What happens if they are not being ignored correctly? If the mta just sweeps up all the bits it sees and pushes them upstream, the transport server drops the ball on the first hop. It may not be able to handle the bits which begin with = or other parts thereof. Is it multiple concurrent pushing of mime content which is bleeding over to smtp or truly does android lack the ability to mail plain ascii text? -- Apologies to Simon Travaglia SCK=Science Centre Kid BOFH=Bash Operator From Hell SCK: Hey I can't get this bash script you gave me to work! BOFH: Try single quoting it. SCK: Ok, it's running. SCK: Hey, what's `rm -r .* '. do anyway? BOFH: hehehehehehe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 24 22:38:40 2011 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:38:40 -0500 Subject: gconf bug on Debian Unstable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > There are a few people who say that simply logging out and back in > again solves the problem. Anyone on here with Debian Unstable confirm > this? Okay, I have gconf2 3.2.3-1 running, although gnome-terminal is still 2.30.2-1. No problems with terminal or emacs, but evolution gives me a couple of these: (evolution:3117): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: g_object_get_property: object class `EShellSettings' has no property named `cal-primary-calendar' Everything else look fine. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 00:02:17 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:02:17 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 02:48:40PM -0500, Stewart Russell wrote > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Russell Reiter wrote: > > > > I'm a real die hard. I expect to be able to make my linux to send > > plain text when I want it to. > > What do you mean by ?plain text?? Are you using Microsoftie "smart quotes" ? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 03:32:46 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:32:46 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <20111125000217.GA13419-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> On 11-11-24 19:02 , waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Are you using Microsoftie "smart quotes" ? Nope, I was using UTF8 typographic quotes; along with em-dashes, non-break spaces and ellipses. Adhering to the "No HTML" list stipulation, but showing that plain text isn't as plain as most people think. MS smart quotes where those nasty things that lived in the "do not use" section of ISO-8859. They were a Unicode U+1F4A9* and no mistake. Stewart *: look it up, then immediate regret looking it up. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 09:24:11 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 04:24:11 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <4ECF0C5E.6030905-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:32:46PM -0500, Stewart C. Russell wrote > On 11-11-24 19:02 , waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > Are you using Microsoftie "smart quotes" ? > > Nope, I was using UTF8 typographic quotes; along with em-dashes, > non-break spaces and ellipses. Adhering to the "No HTML" list > stipulation, but showing that plain text isn't as plain as most people > think. > > MS smart quotes where those nasty things that lived in the "do not use" > section of ISO-8859. They were a Unicode U+1F4A9* and no mistake. UTF8 is getting beyond plain text. You could be doing Chinese, Japanese or Sanskrit in UTF8. Also, what do you really accomplish by using... * em-dashes * typographic quotes * non-break spaces * ellipses This is basically HTML "cuteness" via a backdoor. Way back when, "plain text" was implicitly assumed to be ASCII. Now, with the advent of UTF8, we may have to explicitly say ASCII, rather than merely saying "No HTML". -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 11:56:01 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R. Russell Reiter) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 06:56:01 -0500 Subject: Droid ascii test - Sharing a news story Message-ID: <1bdec1fe-cfe9-4f57-a54f-6464986e6c4a@email.android.com> Turned off parent and kluge sigs. Set K9 mua to "ascii" This message started from the newspaper application. If this doesn't work I guess the next step before modding is to write a wrapper to set the content type header to text/rfc822, so the ascii content header reflects the salted mime content. Any trailing mess? Any tlug footer? http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/business/article/1091155 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 13:00:49 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:00:49 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <20111125092411.GA13935-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> On 11-11-25 04:24 , Walter Dnes wrote: > > UTF8 is getting beyond plain text. You could be doing Chinese, > Japanese or Sanskrit in UTF8. Well, that's good news for the more than half of the world that isn't adequately represented by ASCII. > Also, what do you really accomplish by > using... They're the proper characters to use. The typewriter, then teletype, then ASCII, have a lot of wrongs to answer for. Two spaces after a period, f'rinstance ? > Way back when, "plain text" was implicitly assumed to be ASCII. Wayer backer whener, it could've been Baudot. I mean, who really needs more than five bits in a character set? Lower case is greatly overrated. If that's not plain enough, we should use Morse - and none of that wispy post-1859 International Morse, either, but the one that Samuel hath wrought. > Now, with the advent > of UTF8, we may have to explicitly say ASCII, rather than merely saying > "No HTML". You might not want to do that. Firstly, it's retrograde. Secondly, you can't properly represent names written in one of the official languages of Canada in ASCII, and there's this Charter thing. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 13:30:58 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:30:58 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <4ECF9181.5070709-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 11-11-25 04:24 , Walter Dnes wrote: >> >> ? UTF8 is getting beyond plain text. ?You could be doing Chinese, >> Japanese or Sanskrit in UTF8. > > Well, that's good news for the more than half of the world that isn't > adequately represented by ASCII. > >> ?Also, what do you really accomplish by >> using... > > They're the proper characters to use. The typewriter, then teletype, then > ASCII, have a lot of wrongs to answer for. Two spaces after a period, > f'rinstance ? > >> Way back when, "plain text" was implicitly assumed to be ASCII. > > Wayer backer whener, it could've been Baudot. I mean, who really needs more > than five bits in a character set? Lower case is greatly overrated. If The man who founded MS said who needs more than 640k or did he? http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9101699/The_640K_quote_won_t_go_away_but_did_Gates_really_say_it_ > that's not plain enough, we should use Morse - and none of that wispy > post-1859 International Morse, either, but the one that Samuel hath wrought. > >> Now, with the advent >> of UTF8, we may have to explicitly say ASCII, rather than merely saying >> "No HTML". > > You might not want to do that. Firstly, it's retrograde. Secondly, you can't > properly represent names written in one of the official languages of Canada > in ASCII, and there's this Charter thing. Retrograde or cornerstone of a plain language type? Like latin languages as opposed to English, French or German and then there's this french language signs only thing. If people have a right to agree to disagree, they should have the right for that message to get through. Hell if I can ever get my matter transmitter working, I'll be pitching lineotype slugs at this list. > > ?Stewart > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 13:44:47 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:44:47 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111125134447.GA18067@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 08:30:58AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: >If people have a right to agree to disagree, they should have the >right for that message to get through. > >Hell if I can ever get my matter transmitter working, I'll be pitching >lineotype slugs at this list. Then there'll be antipathy to your antimony :-) Sorry, I'm a bit sleep-deprived. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 14:05:18 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:05:18 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <20111125134447.GA18067-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> <20111125134447.GA18067@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: Antinomy accepted. On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 8:44 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 08:30:58AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: > >>If people have a right to agree to disagree, they should have the >>right for that message to get through. >> >>Hell if I can ever get my matter transmitter working, I'll be pitching >>lineotype slugs at this list. > > Then there'll be antipathy to your antimony :-) > > Sorry, I'm a bit sleep-deprived. You don't seem all that foggy to me. ;-) > -- > > yours, > > William > > cheers, Russell -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 14:34:46 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:34:46 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ECFA786.9000905@gmail.com> On 11-11-25 08:30 , Russell Reiter wrote: > > Retrograde or cornerstone of a plain language type? ASCII doesn't support long S (?be? in cla?s!?), eth or thorn, and those were cornerstones of plain language once. > If people have a right to agree to disagree, they should have the > right for that message to get through. To get through, or be understood? ;-) Plain text is tough; see tchrist's comment on ?unicode - Why does modern Perl avoid UTF-8 by default?? > Hell if I can ever get my matter transmitter working, I'll be pitching > lineotype slugs at this list. Let's keep it RoHS compliant, please. There may be readers in Europe or California, bless their little tin whiskers and brains unfogged by lead. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 15:10:20 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:10:20 -0500 Subject: Droid ascii test - Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: <1bdec1fe-cfe9-4f57-a54f-6464986e6c4a-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <1bdec1fe-cfe9-4f57-a54f-6464986e6c4a@email.android.com> Message-ID: <20111125151020.GT6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 06:56:01AM -0500, R. Russell Reiter wrote: > Turned off parent and kluge sigs. > Set K9 mua to "ascii" > > This message started from the newspaper application. > > If this doesn't work I guess the next step before modding is to write a wrapper to set the content type header to text/rfc822, so the ascii content header reflects the salted mime content. > > Any trailing mess? > Any tlug footer? > > > http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/business/article/1091155 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Oh look. A perfect message. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 15:15:45 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:15:45 -0500 Subject: Droid ascii test - Sharing a news story In-Reply-To: <20111125151020.GT6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1bdec1fe-cfe9-4f57-a54f-6464986e6c4a@email.android.com> <20111125151020.GT6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Yup. Shame the native client won't send one. Looks like andrioid is linux and can deal with plain text. It just doesn't want me to. On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 06:56:01AM -0500, R. Russell Reiter wrote: >> Turned off parent and kluge sigs. >> Set K9 mua to "ascii" >> >> This message started from the newspaper application. >> >> If this doesn't work I guess the next step before modding is to write a wrapper to set the content type header to text/rfc822, so the ascii content header reflects the salted mime content. >> >> Any trailing mess? >> Any tlug footer? >> >> >> http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/business/article/1091155 >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > Oh look. ?A perfect message. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 15:15:56 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:15:56 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <20111125092411.GA13935-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20111125151556.GU6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 04:24:11AM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > UTF8 is getting beyond plain text. You could be doing Chinese, > Japanese or Sanskrit in UTF8. Also, what do you really accomplish by > using... > * em-dashes > * typographic quotes > * non-break spaces > * ellipses > > This is basically HTML "cuteness" via a backdoor. Way back when, > "plain text" was implicitly assumed to be ASCII. Now, with the advent > of UTF8, we may have to explicitly say ASCII, rather than merely saying > "No HTML". At least utf8 is compatible with ascii so the mailing list software won't have issues with it. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/56412 shows the quotes rather nicely too. I certainly couldn't possibly be bothered to try and type fancy quotes, although I do have my keyboard layout setup to allow a lot of useful characters to be typed easily. -- Len S?rensen <- just because I can -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 15:18:39 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:18:39 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <4ECFA786.9000905-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> <4ECFA786.9000905@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ok. Maybe I was trying to bash a very small tack with a very long integer. But I believe there is a skelton key in every skeleton in the closet. I blame this cognitive dissonance on my early exposure to rock and roll math http://www.lyricsfreak.com/t/tom+lehrer/new+math_20138395.html and the sociology courses I skipped. http://www.lyricsfreak.com/t/tom+lehrer/national+brotherhood+week_20138394.html I won't try to bust the stack on my phone with the list resources.I promise. On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 11-11-25 08:30 , Russell Reiter wrote: >> >> Retrograde or cornerstone of a plain language type? > > ASCII doesn't support long S (?be? in cla?s!?), eth or thorn, and those were > cornerstones of plain language once. > >> If people have a right to agree to disagree, they should have the >> right for that message to get through. > > To get through, or be understood? ;-) > > Plain text is tough; see tchrist's comment on ?unicode - Why does modern > Perl avoid UTF-8 by default?? > > >> Hell if I can ever get my matter transmitter working, I'll be pitching >> lineotype slugs at this list. > > Let's keep it RoHS compliant, please. There may be readers in Europe or > California, bless their little tin whiskers and brains unfogged by lead. > > ?Stewart > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 15:23:12 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:23:12 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines Message-ID: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> Greetings, A somewhat theoretical situation. You are considering renting a physical host and rack space. The plan being to generate a few virtual machines for internet services. Getting a reliable host in a reliable data centre is attractive. However, you have never been comfortable with others having such close physical access to your data. Whole disk encryption may be a solution. Does one encrypt the physical host only or the virtual hosts or both? What are the options for protecting your data? Sincerely, -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 15:28:59 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:28:59 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111125152859.GV6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 08:30:58AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: > The man who founded MS said who needs more than 640k or did he? > > http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9101699/The_640K_quote_won_t_go_away_but_did_Gates_really_say_it_ Ah the old 640k issue. Yet another stupidity of the x86 design by intel. The reset address is F...F0 on x86 processors. That meant rom had to be at the end of address space. So that meant ram had to be somewhere else, so might as well be at the begining, although actually IO is at the very begining overlapping a few KB of the ram. When you later increase the address space, having your rom at the end of what used to be your address space is pretty inconvinient. Intel designs before the x86 had selectable reset addresses and often used 0. This does make it harder to catch accesses to address zero (which of often what NULL is defined to be after all). I believe 68k based systems all had rom much earlier in the address space which made it easier when the memory space went from 24 to 32bit since you could just expand ram. Of course many of those machines also had multiple types of ram in different ranges and the OS knew how to work with that, although most I have looked at had the generic memory at the end of address space so it was easy to expand later when the address space grew. Of course the 640k value was simply because of where the graphics card rom was places. Text only monochrome systems could have 704k or sometimes even more since they didn't have a rom right after 640k. > Retrograde or cornerstone of a plain language type? Like latin > languages as opposed to English, French or German and then there's > this french language signs only thing. > > If people have a right to agree to disagree, they should have the > right for that message to get through. > > Hell if I can ever get my matter transmitter working, I'll be pitching > lineotype slugs at this list. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 15:30:21 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:30:21 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <4ECFA786.9000905-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> <4ECFA786.9000905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111125153021.GW6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 09:34:46AM -0500, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Let's keep it RoHS compliant, please. There may be readers in Europe > or California, bless their little tin whiskers and brains unfogged > by lead. All electronics seem to be made leadfree these days. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 15:33:05 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:33:05 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20111125152312.GA23173-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4ECFB531.3070904@alteeve.com> On 11/25/2011 10:23 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > Greetings, > > A somewhat theoretical situation. You are considering renting a physical > host and rack space. The plan being to generate a few virtual machines > for internet services. Getting a reliable host in a reliable data centre > is attractive. However, you have never been comfortable with others > having such close physical access to your data. > > Whole disk encryption may be a solution. Does one encrypt the physical > host only or the virtual hosts or both? What are the options for > protecting your data? > > Sincerely, Some hosts, like us, rent 1/8th racks for customers who want private, locked space. Setting that aside; I've taken to creating unencrypted KVM VM hosts and then creating encrypted LVM LV's to create the servers I care about. This way, I can remote boot a host machine and get SSH access, then use that ssh access to enter the LV's passphrase. Alternatively, I leave the LVs as-is and do full disk encryption inside the VM. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "omg my singularity battery is dead again. stupid hawking radiation." - epitron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 16:11:07 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:11:07 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: <4ECFB531.3070904-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFB531.3070904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: That seems kind of pointless, because the host can always read encryption keys from shared memory. In theory it should be as easy as # grep "search_term" /dev/mem Then all you need to do is create a snapshot of a virtual machine's logical volume and copy all data. In the end you would have to either stop worrying about the company that provides you with hosting service going after your data, or you'll have to host your own hardware. Encrypting logical volumes on shared host is snake oil. Alex. On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Digimer wrote: > On 11/25/2011 10:23 AM, Neil Watson wrote: >> >> Greetings, >> >> A somewhat theoretical situation. You are considering renting a physical >> host and rack space. The plan being to generate a few virtual machines >> for internet services. Getting a reliable host in a reliable data centre >> is attractive. However, you have never been comfortable with others >> having such close physical access to your data. >> >> Whole disk encryption may be a solution. Does one encrypt the physical >> host only or the virtual hosts or both? What are the options for >> protecting your data? >> >> Sincerely, > > Some hosts, like us, rent 1/8th racks for customers who want private, locked > space. > > Setting that aside; I've taken to creating unencrypted KVM VM hosts and then > creating encrypted LVM LV's to create the servers I care about. This way, I > can remote boot a host machine and get SSH access, then use that ssh access > to enter the LV's passphrase. > > Alternatively, I leave the LVs as-is and do full disk encryption inside the > VM. > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: ? ? ? ? ? ? ?digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > Freenode handle: ? ? digimer > Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: ? ? ? http://nodeassassin.org > "omg my singularity battery is dead again. > stupid hawking radiation." - epitron > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 16:29:15 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:29:15 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFB531.3070904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20111125162915.GA25994@watson-wilson.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:11:07AM -0500, Alex Volkov wrote: >Encrypting logical volumes on shared host is snake oil. In my scenario the host is not shared. The hosting company has physical access to the host but no login. In such a case I think there is still value to encryption. It is just a question of how to apply it. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 16:42:16 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:42:16 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20111125162915.GA25994-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFB531.3070904@alteeve.com> <20111125162915.GA25994@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Sorry I wasn't specific-enough this was a reply to two posts at once. If you host the machine then there is definitely value in installing them using encryption, and I'd do the same thing as Digimier said, crete logical volumes on physical host for guest machines, which are seen as whole disk and then install lvm on guest machine and encrypt only volumes containing private data, no point encrypting root fs. Then you can control the machine with virt-manager over ssh, and that is where you enter volume password during boot. On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:11:07AM -0500, Alex Volkov wrote: >> >> Encrypting logical volumes on shared host is snake oil. > > In my scenario the host is not shared. ?The hosting company has physical > access to the host but no login. In such a case I think there is still > value to encryption. ?It is just a question of how to apply it. > > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 16:52:28 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:52:28 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20111125162915.GA25994-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFB531.3070904@alteeve.com> <20111125162915.GA25994@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4ECFC7CC.3070601@utoronto.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/25/2011 11:29 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:11:07AM -0500, Alex Volkov wrote: >> Encrypting logical volumes on shared host is snake oil. > > In my scenario the host is not shared. The hosting company has physical > access to the host but no login. In such a case I think there is still > value to encryption. It is just a question of how to apply it. I haven't used it, but TRESOR looks like a really valuable encryption tool for folks who run servers (or encrypted laptops with sensitive info): http://www1.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/tresor Briefly, it protects against cold boot attacks by running AES operations for disk encryption 100% outside of RAM (instead TRESOR uses CPU debug registers). This would mitigate against a cold boot attack in the event that a server was seized (mistakenly or otherwise) and powered off, or a laptop stolen and it's RAM contents dumped. Of course the usual proviso applies - that if an attacker is sophisticated enough to know how to deal with and defeat your encryption scheme, moving the key from RAM is just making an attack more difficult. But at least they can't power off the machine to carry one out immediately. Instead an attacker would have to pull off an evil maid attack and wait for you to access the machine. At that point, if your information is that sensitive then I'd expect the machine should be treated as compromised anyway.. Jamon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJOz8fEAAoJEDJp9n+rTckFkj8P/1jcxvsO6BhSw8Nq7jSeDZp6 BOrNP98XD6oRxyHLU6LnLDrBB58kGxTSOxdLvIJkHzVbl5NDi4A42wQAUcblc12I T/iruKfhdy4KqqI9B4hKBTMJBDQhq0Y+R925grr/R5UUUaNiXxM2oqEtUxAFo5Ic uXi+YF+c1AYBSa30MzRG6FyoerFo33J9rFnCqOkA/3IXW3I5Fq/Dq3JLg6lUFomQ VhF1iUspFDuJx8njJbcwIzjoBMTf46HZ+EQ4Tqo/dY2ClmJhA540PDSJQoM0i3za Qy18sbLoUdRheSTdrQHIKuPJ46Hn3fqBIZVs0fL2729rnfvQ5cjnlrCwxJbyk0xP 9HdwLm9B/YsGctooPvMNDY9jZsEPvcKDhzXDZiysPTsfYd141/PE+/YH4wz5eVOD QE2g9ly3aOKrtxwwMEq0me6sP8i6MFHGvSew2kC+XLvRQE2ftQf/+Dw8Rx5bwVkI fEmV31YGdZslzw8PNwQrKTfC61tOAyXH6KMXDPuSD5bdCIYFnBcrTYKOIeEyLWTU M9emX7AWf69aQ7vy29SFdYrfgBwzWaSqY9FUs1Ov5o58TKy7J4KmIpOB5dmeK8fY cLuGY53STczbOD2CPa+DEwoUxrdXNOTXqEd1nJKQuuWt7SqZ+J9yzMl5q0gViFpR g6QJDHPf+JKFLLF4ZSMH =tCMs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 16:57:49 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:57:49 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFB531.3070904@alteeve.com> <20111125162915.GA25994@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20111125165749.GA27326@watson-wilson.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:42:16AM -0500, Alex Volkov wrote: >If you host the machine then there is definitely value in installing >them using encryption, and I'd do the same thing as Digimier said, >crete logical volumes on physical host for guest machines, which are >seen as whole disk and then install lvm on guest machine and encrypt >only volumes containing private data, no point encrypting root fs. Some interesting questions come from this paragraph. What are the pros and cons of encrypting the raw volume at the host level versus encrypting on guest? On encrypting root fs, one might argue that with physical access one could replace a binary in /bin if it were not encrypted. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 17:13:31 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:13:31 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20111125165749.GA27326-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFB531.3070904@alteeve.com> <20111125162915.GA25994@watson-wilson.ca> <20111125165749.GA27326@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: There's two things I can think of that are going for encrypting on gues: * Performance: The less you encrypt, the less you decrypt the more performance you get. * Ease of use: While encrypting volumes under gues is easy -- you just set some options during the install that are no different than those during installation on physical host, I have no idea how you encrypt pysical volume on host and the install guest on it, in the sense, how virtualization and encryption software will play together. * You don't need to keep files in /bin secret all you need is to verify that they were downloaded from your vendor and weren't tampered with, there's a security term describing this situation, confidentiality vs. integrity? Every major distribution has tools for checking that. On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:42:16AM -0500, Alex Volkov wrote: >> >> If you host the machine then there is definitely value in installing >> them using encryption, and I'd do the same thing as Digimier said, >> crete logical volumes on physical host for guest machines, which are >> seen as whole disk and then install lvm on guest machine and encrypt >> only volumes containing private data, no point encrypting root fs. > > Some interesting questions come from this paragraph. ?What are the pros > and cons of encrypting the raw volume at the host level versus > encrypting on guest? On encrypting root fs, one might argue that with > physical access one could replace a binary in /bin if it were not > encrypted. > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 17:32:36 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:32:36 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: <4ECFB531.3070904-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFB531.3070904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4ECFD134.40600@alteeve.com> On 11/25/2011 10:33 AM, Digimer wrote: > On 11/25/2011 10:23 AM, Neil Watson wrote: >> Greetings, >> >> A somewhat theoretical situation. You are considering renting a physical >> host and rack space. The plan being to generate a few virtual machines >> for internet services. Getting a reliable host in a reliable data centre >> is attractive. However, you have never been comfortable with others >> having such close physical access to your data. >> >> Whole disk encryption may be a solution. Does one encrypt the physical >> host only or the virtual hosts or both? What are the options for >> protecting your data? >> >> Sincerely, > > Some hosts, like us, rent 1/8th racks for customers who want private, > locked space. > > Setting that aside; I've taken to creating unencrypted KVM VM hosts and > then creating encrypted LVM LV's to create the servers I care about. > This way, I can remote boot a host machine and get SSH access, then use > that ssh access to enter the LV's passphrase. > > Alternatively, I leave the LVs as-is and do full disk encryption inside > the VM. > If you do the encryption inside the VM (rather than the LV backing it), this should no longer be a concern. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "omg my singularity battery is dead again. stupid hawking radiation." - epitron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 17:35:38 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:35:38 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: <20111125152312.GA23173-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > Greetings, > > A somewhat theoretical situation. You are considering renting a physical > host and rack space. ?The plan being to generate a few virtual machines > for internet services. Getting a reliable host in a reliable data centre > is attractive. ?However, you have never been comfortable with others > having such close physical access to your data. > > Whole disk encryption may be a solution. ?Does one encrypt the physical > host only or the virtual hosts or both? What are the options for > protecting your data? I'd think that neither is actually terribly useful. A large portion of the data on your system isn't secret at all. For instance, much of the contents of /usr and /bin represent stuff installed as part of your Linux distribution, which isn't confidential data, in the slightest. There might be some value in tripwire-like rules where you do checksums on those files, so you have some hope of detecting if they have been tampered with. But the set of data that is *actually* confidential is rather smaller, and perhaps doesn't even represent much of your data set. http://www.wayner.org/node/46 "This new book, Translucent Databases, describes a different attitude toward protecting the information. Most databases provide elaborate control mechanisms for letting the right people in to see the right records. These tools are well-designed and thoroughly tested, but they can only provide so much support. If someone breaks into the operating system itself, all of the data on the hard disk is unveiled. If a clerk, a supervisor, or a system administrator decides to turn traitor, there's nothing anyone can do. Translucent databases provide better, deeper protection by scrambling the data with encryption algorithms. The solutions use the minimal amount of encryption to ensure that the database is still functional. In the best applications, the personal and sensitive information is protected but the database still delivers the information." The approach that Wayner's book takes is that data that is supposed to be secure is encrypted before it reaches the host, with the consequence that encryption keys never need to be on that host, which is essential to maintain trust when you *don't* trust the system administrator. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 18:03:09 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:03:09 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4ECFD85D.6090409@utoronto.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/25/2011 12:35 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > Translucent databases provide better, deeper protection by scrambling > the data with encryption algorithms. The solutions use the minimal > amount of encryption to ensure that the database is still functional. > In the best applications, the personal and sensitive information is > protected but the database still delivers the information." > > The approach that Wayner's book takes is that data that is supposed to > be secure is encrypted before it reaches the host, with the > consequence that encryption keys never need to be on that host, which > is essential to maintain trust when you *don't* trust the system > administrator. That's an interesting approach and makes sense for some use cases. However, it presumes that unencrypted data coming from source X never hits a disk somewhere. If X doesn't have disk encryption for every location where data might be written, then it is a weak point regardless of how secure the database is. For example, assuming physical access, what is to prevent someone from running a forensic recovery tool on say /var/spool files, or on a swap partition if either location handled data destined for the encrypted database? For me at least, while encrypting the whole disk is definitely a shot-gun approach, the overhead is slight and reduces complexity. I certainly don't notice any performance issues with AES on an SSD. Jamon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJOz9hYAAoJEDJp9n+rTckFvoQP/1oQEn1o4Ltq+iRAKyNH/9uj lY2MebNOMRjbP1lVxtjWsAZk9YmfJBEh2f1G3FD39fPC50AeC+W6xHL1J+lhwVK1 u1mmFwu5sIIB7eL32Wu0RPLSYqlJzl19JmmL/r+v3V5IIyFp0xxlZpavoAfeVXPu tuXSqLlWzjFmZs1oL638vd1NLoloxLuyacjQN9Q8mydXgj2Uci7ymH2BskEOmf1a FSRW3Aem8MTlVT/VM8R9Jn+2wn4MZAIQ4vbz9N9IXfBDlgWE76ge3nYb9DGTgkRw GTM5/yXZxbxU5Bcbn7AK4Xw2LFVMsUpiYKZ4FI2s8cdMF9oxLfyk1KGcICGsghH8 5rF63OSu9+V0gakgkhmnBomNBuMizl9h0ySkqAe689tZkXWFf3+8QYKMDtyhf6Ui kzNJk+gVuprgBlQcZubdYBkhcbCHKyPJEo/pm8cgKHlsZ8kd1DBmi6UO7EVB7JXP 0tsgsEEuxMtI5tpWMQIldz2SgpOrm12XdZPYFMlGsl6sf39vp1ILedO0ky21bNPW +jhuy9KgXDPt7eayjh0KMu0M0U9jrw4LIyzCgubR1/upbF09TYzM+drp6kdOD0AC lvwPfwDLFfR3h0AR0bTpyaRe/KE2S3+2R1HOTxigikZZKynpNTSg4wSzTacm51Yi NbkQOFiw0zi3fRGRFoPW =FA7w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 18:14:57 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:14:57 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFB531.3070904@alteeve.com> <20111125162915.GA25994@watson-wilson.ca> <20111125165749.GA27326@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20111125181457.GC29257@watson-wilson.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 12:13:31PM -0500, Alex Volkov wrote: >* You don't need to keep files in /bin secret all you need is to >verify that they were downloaded from your vendor and weren't tampered >with, there's a security term describing this situation, >confidentiality vs. integrity? Every major distribution has tools for >checking that. I'm actually cooking something up with Cfengine to do that. Rather than just warning about a changed binary Cfengine will also repair the seemingly damaged file with a copy from a master source. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 18:20:27 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:20:27 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: <4ECFD85D.6090409-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFD85D.6090409@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 11/25/2011 12:35 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> Translucent databases provide better, deeper protection by scrambling >> the data with encryption algorithms. The solutions use the minimal >> amount of encryption to ensure that the database is still functional. >> In the best applications, the personal and sensitive information is >> protected but the database still delivers the information." >> >> The approach that Wayner's book takes is that data that is supposed to >> be secure is encrypted before it reaches the host, with the >> consequence that encryption keys never need to be on that host, which >> is essential to maintain trust when you *don't* trust the system >> administrator. > > That's an interesting approach and makes sense for some use cases. > However, it presumes that unencrypted data coming from source X never > hits a disk somewhere. If X doesn't have disk encryption for every > location where data might be written, then it is a weak point regardless > of how secure the database is. No, it assumes that the data is encrypted before transmission. In that case, the server never receives it in unencrypted form, so that risk simply doesn't exist. > For example, assuming physical access, what is to prevent someone from > running a forensic recovery tool on say /var/spool files, or on a swap > partition if either location handled data destined for the encrypted > database? What prevents this is that the data was encrypted before it was received by this server. > For me at least, while encrypting the whole disk is definitely a > shot-gun approach, the overhead is slight and reduces complexity. I > certainly don't notice any performance issues with AES on an SSD. The problem is that encrypting the whole disk is the "Vitamin C as a cure for cancer" cure; it is quite likely that it only provides any protection in peoples' imaginations, rather than providing *actual* protection. In order for "whole disk" encryption to function requires that there be an encryption key on the server, and if that is so, then that key IS vulnerable to being found by the system administrators. Not "might be vulnerable" - it right well *IS* vulnerable to anyone with physical access, which makes any security being claimed into a mirage. It doesn't matter how many people think good thoughts about this form of "security", they may feel good about Sacro Cranial Therapy, or the merits of homeopathy. "Good feelings" don't make any of it effectual. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 18:45:16 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:45:16 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFD85D.6090409@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4ECFE23C.5020904@utoronto.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/25/2011 01:20 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > No, it assumes that the data is encrypted before transmission. In > that case, the server never receives it in unencrypted form, so that > risk simply doesn't exist. > >> For example, assuming physical access, what is to prevent someone from >> running a forensic recovery tool on say /var/spool files, or on a swap >> partition if either location handled data destined for the encrypted >> database? > > What prevents this is that the data was encrypted before it was > received by this server. > >> For me at least, while encrypting the whole disk is definitely a >> shot-gun approach, the overhead is slight and reduces complexity. I >> certainly don't notice any performance issues with AES on an SSD. > > The problem is that encrypting the whole disk is the "Vitamin C as a > cure for cancer" cure; it is quite likely that it only provides any > protection in peoples' imaginations, rather than providing *actual* > protection. > > In order for "whole disk" encryption to function requires that there > be an encryption key on the server, and if that is so, then that key > IS vulnerable to being found by the system administrators. Not "might > be vulnerable" - it right well *IS* vulnerable to anyone with physical > access, which makes any security being claimed into a mirage. > > It doesn't matter how many people think good thoughts about this form > of "security", they may feel good about Sacro Cranial Therapy, or the > merits of homeopathy. "Good feelings" don't make any of it effectual. So here we have two different trust models at work. In the first case, the assumption is that data is not being tampered with or siphoned off at the origin *before* encryption. The source data is assumed to be trustworthy. This assumes a number of things about the network, physical security, encryption being used etc. Crucially, this also entails trust in the person(s) administering the box. The second case is the human one, where the attempt is to mitigate against the possible actions rogue administrator. This entails that every system said administrator can access is locked down such that they cannot interfere with the encryption, either at the source or destination. But then who locks down the box in the first place? Another administrator? A policy based configuration tool? Who hires that administrator or controls those files? Do you hire 2 administrators to check each others' work? What it they team up and go rogue? The crux of the issue is that at some point, a) the law of diminishing returns kicks into effect, and b) you have to trust a person or a machine or a network at some point. No matter how much work is done, at a certain moment it becomes a leap of faith that the systems or the people around you are trustworthy. I much prefer trusting in the latter, however naive that might sound. Jamon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJOz+I0AAoJEDJp9n+rTckFgbUP/0BhsoH6ujnest9Oj8+68y8i ohHHGP8pRuuBXQHzBrMciT2JMOpaX72EUID6g77eE1Zkd6/vMZT8GBnQpk13YS58 L87VYWHOR96qTtc9Zlq5ghBto3GOvqrHEH9VcANbCI47MDkg8wz0cLLqwPBjeNK1 SNYss4p8xOx04NNRomOuIyp1dIgwEmQsOTUMBpULzm5ilxPd7E4MGB3kXuizMHyJ ZLq710UUFmjicCmOV5aIUNi+Y/gu2+GBuL3YxFWgGWEhOfLvc/Vh1t89QNckcm8R 5B2oJ77aGVFVdX4/Rmofifr+Qlzd/nwbZlgMYN23+NJdHpZg2Nkuibmfby0+hHgx rNUm7+wlP985gTQbk+PpBq5HaL4pH0OGFIme+BufNXFT+02XhilmL9VfXUBssLQJ SS5BzBoe9314KtPko7tPFB95Pl0yRVTyRRrp/fcM2rZ2RfZm+VmfnGeoj4UpBizz H9bAdRVc6bdLQUgZ+NiyBK85H3Zmn9VyJRHVUedlsGkfzeDzEdHxMZIUSmbA2IES L4ahQR2+I0PeeO+qmFX9hzWlDNw1sVr855AtOf7YRfo67Ogqvve1/l17kXKGy1/Z tA7sO2hKBvfhtsp4hPWbX5okKlubzGWtUFCjbEaFSxbVbypdlnhqRsz/6brhUkFg tVTsCqwjDajJTmo8wPU+ =7aPl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 19:19:50 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:19:50 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: <4ECFE23C.5020904-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFD85D.6090409@utoronto.ca> <4ECFE23C.5020904@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > On 11/25/2011 01:20 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> No, it assumes that the data is encrypted before transmission. ?In >> that case, the server never receives it in unencrypted form, so that >> risk simply doesn't exist. >> >>> For example, assuming physical access, what is to prevent someone from >>> running a forensic recovery tool on say /var/spool files, or on a swap >>> partition if either location handled data destined for the encrypted >>> database? >> >> What prevents this is that the data was encrypted before it was >> received by this server. >> >>> For me at least, while encrypting the whole disk is definitely a >>> shot-gun approach, the overhead is slight and reduces complexity. I >>> certainly don't notice any performance issues with AES on an SSD. >> >> The problem is that encrypting the whole disk is the "Vitamin C as a >> cure for cancer" cure; it is quite likely that it only provides any >> protection in peoples' imaginations, rather than providing *actual* >> protection. >> >> In order for "whole disk" encryption to function requires that there >> be an encryption key on the server, and if that is so, then that key >> IS vulnerable to being found by the system administrators. ?Not "might >> be vulnerable" - it right well *IS* vulnerable to anyone with physical >> access, which makes any security being claimed into a mirage. >> >> It doesn't matter how many people think good thoughts about this form >> of "security", they may feel good about Sacro Cranial Therapy, or the >> merits of homeopathy. ?"Good feelings" don't make any of it effectual. > > So here we have two different trust models at work. In the first case, > the assumption is that data is not being tampered with or siphoned off > at the origin *before* encryption. The source data is assumed to be > trustworthy. > > This assumes a number of things about the network, physical security, > encryption being used etc. Crucially, this also entails trust in the > person(s) administering the box. > > The second case is the human one, where the attempt is to mitigate > against the possible actions rogue administrator. This entails that > every system said administrator can access is locked down such that they > cannot interfere with the encryption, either at the source or > destination. But then who locks down the box in the first place? Another > administrator? A policy based configuration tool? Who hires that > administrator or controls those files? > > Do you hire 2 administrators to check each others' work? What it they > team up and go rogue? > > The crux of the issue is that at some point, a) the law of diminishing > returns kicks into effect, and b) you have to trust a person or a > machine or a network at some point. No matter how much work is done, at > a certain moment it becomes a leap of faith that the systems or the > people around you are trustworthy. I much prefer trusting in the latter, > however naive that might sound. The laws emerging surrounding health care data are pointing towards that trust being something you mightn't readily afford. And there are most definitely cases where you really, really, really, really cannot assume that kind of trust. http://www.wayner.org/node/15 Characteristic case: the rape crisis centre, where the admins in the back room have NO business having access to the data, prurient or otherwise. Victims won't talk freely if their skin crawls at the thought of unknown people reading their accounts - data simply won't get recorded unless it is secured against the admins, and that's not "one layer of admins, but not the others that we do trust", that's secured against access by ALL the admins. Your premise of an extra layer of administrators doesn't work. A less sensitive, but still interesting example is that of library data collection: "One of the bigger challenges for librarians is protecting the privacy of patrons while stopping them from stealing the books. In many cases, there's not much interesting in our reading choices, but sometimes there is. A spy might look for hints or clues in the list of books taken out by researchers from the nearby army base. A blackmailer may try to subvert some of the local police or security personnel by looking at what they read. This may be why some librarians are so careful to protect the choices of their customers. Is it possible to protect the reading choices of library patrons from hackers, insiders, and snoops while catching thieves? At first glance, this seems difficult because the library must keep track of the books on loan to defend itself against people who don't bring them back. Some libraries try to delete all records after a book is returned, but that doesn't stop the curious from looking at the list of books that are currently checked out. The surprising result is that the library doesn't need to keep a list of what people are reading to stop theft. A few simple one way functions can lock out even the most adept snoops. (A good one-way function is the Secure Hash Algorithm or SHA and many toolkits now come with implementations that implement it and a more general, metaprotocol, the HMAC.)" You don't store the list of individuals and the books they have borrowed, you store SHA1 digests of those. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 19:55:36 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:55:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: black-Friday notebook deal -- Linux! Message-ID: Dell is offering a 14" notebook with Linux at a good price: $297 Note: you need to use a coupon from the redflagdeals thread to get that price. Things I find interesting about this: + Ubuntu 11.04 (somewhat odd choice -- neither current nor LTS) + as cheap as a netbook, but mostly better (but larger and heavier) - the processor (Celeron 847) is one of those value-reduced (crippled) Intel specials. Here's a comparision with some other relevant Intel processors: Notice that this does have VT-x, unlike the otherwise-more-beefy Pentium B950 (found in a current Walmart special). I wonder if the difference in TDP (nominal top power consumption) differences between these chips is mostly due to different top clock rates. In other words, would the B850 use as little power as the Celron 847 if you clocked it identically? - no optical drive. Probably a good choice these days. - long running time on battery, according to reviews - solidly made chasis, aimed at a higher price point. - HDMI-out, 2 x USB 3, eSata connector, 1366 x 768 display If I needed a new notebook, and price mattered, I'd consider jumping on this deal. There are a lot of other good deals with different trade-offs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 19:57:49 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:57:49 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFD85D.6090409@utoronto.ca> <4ECFE23C.5020904@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4ECFF33D.9020707@utoronto.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/25/2011 02:19 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > Characteristic case: the rape crisis centre, where the admins in the > back room have NO business having access to the data, prurient or > otherwise. Victims won't talk freely if their skin crawls at the > thought of unknown people reading their accounts - data simply won't > get recorded unless it is secured against the admins, and that's not > "one layer of admins, but not the others that we do trust", that's > secured against access by ALL the admins. Your premise of an extra > layer of administrators doesn't work. That's a great example of how trust can be shifted from one party to another. But my point is that ultimately, there's still a leap of faith on everyone's part to trust in other parties. Otherwise a) no one would call, b) no one would be hired in the first place. The admins may not be trusted, but the staff or volunteers are. Presumably the training or vetting undergone by the staff could just as easily be administered to the admins. > A less sensitive, but still interesting example is that of library > data collection: > The surprising result is that the library doesn't need to keep a list > of what people are reading to stop theft. A few simple one way > functions can lock out even the most adept snoops. (A good one-way > function is the Secure Hash Algorithm or SHA and many toolkits now > come with implementations that implement it and a more general, > metaprotocol, the HMAC.)" > > You don't store the list of individuals and the books they have > borrowed, you store SHA1 digests of those. Sure you don't, but what stops the librarian from storing said list when you checkout a book? This is the whole point. Technical systems be damned, no matter how far you take it, you have to trust someone or something. That's all that I'm saying. The broader theme here is understanding where to place one's trust depending on the configuration of one's systems or staff, and evaluating those against the risk factors involved in a possible compromise. Jamon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJOz/M5AAoJEDJp9n+rTckFHVQQAMBV5ViglXQUpz541SaPVsNl fcY7IIuiCLfUqgZE7u4xmDlk9izOM/5+mQpp3C+TbH8FoWzdUUHxSh0hyoDs/INw FyR07VUOuJq+DRYZdx3PUDTbeALyy7NqU4bIeaDUe8K30PLbce/OR3rjkiljsHRg TmklRzivk4oGtBPUS4rlNYlqXz3aQYD4pnnCRAoExqWfD8nWMBofrd5hEnbwXvtg KqBhmh/Jo4E8S+IZ+EcLr443eAIdZAO8FSex/BGFPKlj8uqclMEPgYqBNSwtTZ9P c+qMyKYr1HryQMwoUkj/jOyQ7AkTN772sYpVAgCZgMDZQt4bmoSJC8CELybb5fzX PgwDZqPPRwwfz3VfeJ7Wdg17X3rCwAxiQ/oft1Hc/jECxDDtJFzDD8DrekB9qNMT lw8fIPz6sJneREgQB8l1DrT7WdioF0aw0uswlYTbFJXj3906nUngeZfsLpNygd3y GGJo0PUTqCy14mnikZRFd77MkQjR8C1zvD8HvORwOM3UjqZAHTD+FGy3zevWbdWp JKeBDea4/zJ2sCoI8Pvzmb9/zosvWw+Z/v07Srwf1QIzNiunbfNQgmsG+lP4Avp6 YIghiCcQI6CQSSXDM3vg8tpubWwXbzMXveQy+dj/YcPsAt4DTG+rFzeOLF9xmQvu UQj8JEAU3gNsMvjfATe4 =A2C3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 20:06:10 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:06:10 -0500 Subject: black-Friday notebook deal -- Linux! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111125200610.GY6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 02:55:36PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Dell is offering a 14" notebook with Linux at a good price: $297 > > Note: you need to use a coupon from the redflagdeals thread to get > that price. > > Things I find interesting about this: > > + Ubuntu 11.04 (somewhat odd choice -- neither current nor LTS) > > + as cheap as a netbook, but mostly better (but larger and heavier) > > - the processor (Celeron 847) is one of those value-reduced (crippled) > Intel specials. Here's a comparision with some other relevant Intel > processors: > > > > Notice that this does have VT-x, unlike the otherwise-more-beefy Pentium > B950 (found in a current Walmart special). > > I wonder if the difference in TDP (nominal top power consumption) > differences between these chips is mostly due to different top clock > rates. In other words, would the B850 use as little power as the > Celron 847 if you clocked it identically? > > - no optical drive. Probably a good choice these days. > > - long running time on battery, according to reviews > > - solidly made chasis, aimed at a higher price point. > > - HDMI-out, 2 x USB 3, eSata connector, 1366 x 768 display > > If I needed a new notebook, and price mattered, I'd consider jumping on > this deal. There are a lot of other good deals with different > trade-offs. But it is a Dell. I am not sure $free would be enough for me to want to deal with one. My wife's Lenovo Ideapad Y470 on the other hand is a lovely machine (except for the stupid canadian multilingual keyboard they insist canadians should have). Sure it is 3 times the cost, but it is also a much much faster machine (being that it is a Core i7M) and it has good speakers. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 21:13:32 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:13:32 -0500 Subject: black-Friday notebook deal -- Linux! In-Reply-To: <20111125200610.GY6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125200610.GY6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4ED004FC.90200@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > My wife's Lenovo Ideapad Y470 on the other hand is a lovely machine > (except for the stupid canadian multilingual keyboard they insist > canadians should have). Sure it is 3 times the cost, but it is also a > much much faster machine (being that it is a Core i7M) and it has good > speakers. > > I recently bought a Lenovo E520 ThinkPad that has the normal keyboard. A friend recently bought a Dell, but returned it because of that multilingual keyboard and got a ThinkPad instead, again with the normal keyboard. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 21:24:35 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:24:35 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <20111125152859.GV6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> <20111125152859.GV6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111125212435.GA15093@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 10:28:59AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 08:30:58AM -0500, Russell Reiter wrote: > > The man who founded MS said who needs more than 640k or did he? > > > > http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9101699/The_640K_quote_won_t_go_away_but_did_Gates_really_say_it_ > > Ah the old 640k issue. Yet another stupidity of the x86 design by intel. What Intel *REALLY* did wrong... * The original 8080 was a 16-bit processor that addressed 65,536 bytes * The 8086 (and the similar 8088) was the next version. To increase the adressable space, they used a 16-bit base register and a 16-bit offset register. The real stupidity was that the address was calculated as... (16 * base_register) + offset register See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_8086#Segmentation This meant that 2 16-bit registers combined to only 20 bits of address space (i.e. 1 megabyte) in real mode DOS. Throwing away 12 bits meant that there were 4096 ways to express the same address. It's a crying shame that Intel didn't use a base+offset scheme that went something like... (4096 * base_register) + offset register That would've given 28 bits of address space, (i.e. 256 megabytes) in real mode DOS. The history of DOS would've been totally different, without EMS and HIMEM garbage. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 21:42:17 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:42:17 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <20111125212435.GA15093-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> <20111125152859.GV6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111125212435.GA15093@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20111125214217.GZ6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 04:24:35PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > What Intel *REALLY* did wrong... > > * The original 8080 was a 16-bit processor that addressed 65,536 bytes > > * The 8086 (and the similar 8088) was the next version. To increase the > adressable space, they used a 16-bit base register and a 16-bit offset > register. The real stupidity was that the address was calculated as... > > (16 * base_register) + offset register Wasn't the 8085 in between? > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_8086#Segmentation This meant > that 2 16-bit registers combined to only 20 bits of address space > (i.e. 1 megabyte) in real mode DOS. Throwing away 12 bits meant that > there were 4096 ways to express the same address. It's a crying shame > that Intel didn't use a base+offset scheme that went something like... > > (4096 * base_register) + offset register > > That would've given 28 bits of address space, (i.e. 256 megabytes) in > real mode DOS. The history of DOS would've been totally different, > without EMS and HIMEM garbage. You wanted intel to plan ahead? Why would they do that? :) Certainly expanding from 16 to 20 to 24 to 32 bits of address space with each generation was pretty stupid. How long until you start to see a trend there and do it right. It's not like they had to add all the external address pins right away if they had gone to say 24 (or 28) bit right from 16. Of course since they used -16 as the reset address, they would have had to do something with the external address lines to allow the rom to be mapped to the end of address space though. That could have been done without having to add all the address pins right away. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 21:43:36 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:43:36 -0500 Subject: black-Friday notebook deal -- Linux! In-Reply-To: <4ED004FC.90200-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125200610.GY6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ED004FC.90200@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20111125214336.GA6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 04:13:32PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > I recently bought a Lenovo E520 ThinkPad that has the normal > keyboard. A friend recently bought a Dell, but returned it because > of that multilingual keyboard and got a ThinkPad instead, again with > the normal keyboard. On thinkpad models you get to pick. On Ideapad models you do not. It's stupid. Can't get a thinkpad with good speakers though, nor with a nice dedicated nvidia graphics chip. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 22:03:42 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:03:42 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <20111125214217.GZ6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> <20111125152859.GV6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111125212435.GA15093@waltdnes.org> <20111125214217.GZ6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4ED010BE.80207@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> What Intel*REALLY* did wrong... >> > >> > * The original 8080 was a 16-bit processor that addressed 65,536 bytes >> > >> > * The 8086 (and the similar 8088) was the next version. To increase the >> > adressable space, they used a 16-bit base register and a 16-bit offset >> > register. The real stupidity was that the address was calculated as... >> > >> > (16 * base_register) + offset register >> > Wasn't the 8085 in between? > > The 8085 was just an improved 8080, with a couple more instructions and better integration. However, the 8080 was not a 16 bit CPU. It was an 8 bit, that had a few 16 bit instructions. It's 16 bit arithmetic instructions were very limited and mainly for memory access. All the regular arithmetic and logic instructions were 8 bit. The 8088 & 8086 were 16 bit CPUs, capable of 16 bit arithmetic and logic operations. Both required the 8087 math co-processor, otherwise math had to be done in software. > Certainly expanding from 16 to 20 to 24 to 32 bits of address space with > each generation was pretty stupid. How long until you start to see a > trend there and do it right. > > It's not like they had to add all the external address pins right away > One thing they wanted to do was to make it easy to port software from the 8080/8085. Also, the technology of the day wasn't anywhere near where it is now and adding more function would mean more complex chips. They'd also be larger, which makes them more expensive. BTW, my first computer was an 8080 powered IMSAI 8080. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/IMSAI_8080 > if they had gone to say 24 (or 28) bit right from 16. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 22:09:59 2011 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:09:59 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <20111125214217.GZ6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> <20111125152859.GV6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111125212435.GA15093@waltdnes.org> <20111125214217.GZ6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 25 November 2011 16:42, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Wasn't the 8085 in between? The 8085 was basically just an 8080 that had extra hardware, so it was easier to interface to, and also only required a 5V power supply. It was still 8 bit and used the 8080 instruction set. The 8086/8088 series was the the jump to 16 bits. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 23:02:21 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:02:21 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> <20111125152859.GV6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111125212435.GA15093@waltdnes.org> <20111125214217.GZ6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111125230221.GB6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 05:09:59PM -0500, Scott Allen wrote: > On 25 November 2011 16:42, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > Wasn't the 8085 in between? > > The 8085 was basically just an 8080 that had extra hardware, so it was > easier to interface to, and also only required a 5V power supply. It > was still 8 bit and used the 8080 instruction set. > > The 8086/8088 series was the the jump to 16 bits. That's right, the 8085 was a 5V fed 8080 pretty much. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 23:02:44 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:02:44 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <4ED010BE.80207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> <20111125152859.GV6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111125212435.GA15093@waltdnes.org> <20111125214217.GZ6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ED010BE.80207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20111125230244.GC6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 05:03:42PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > One thing they wanted to do was to make it easy to port software > from the 8080/8085. Also, the technology of the day wasn't anywhere > near where it is now and adding more function would mean more > complex chips. They'd also be larger, which makes them more > expensive. > > BTW, my first computer was an 8080 powered IMSAI 8080. > https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/IMSAI_8080 My first was a 6502 based Vic20. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 25 23:53:28 2011 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:53:28 -0500 Subject: Droid issues - Legacy Bash IFS var clobbering VLIW offset? In-Reply-To: <20111125230244.GC6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125000217.GA13419@waltdnes.org> <4ECF0C5E.6030905@gmail.com> <20111125092411.GA13935@waltdnes.org> <4ECF9181.5070709@gmail.com> <20111125152859.GV6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111125212435.GA15093@waltdnes.org> <20111125214217.GZ6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ED010BE.80207@rogers.com> <20111125230244.GC6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 25 November 2011 18:02, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > My first was a 6502 based Vic20. So, are we hijacking this tread as "My first computer"? Polymorphic Systems Poly 88 8080 based, S-100 bus. Mine is the System 2 kit, purchased July 1977. I still have it. It still works (I think. I haven't powered it up in a few years). It doesn't run Linux. It only had 512 bytes of RAM. But, what do you expect for a system that only cost $939.75? I later paid over $300 for a 32K byte RAM board, also in kit form. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 26 01:50:36 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:50:36 -0800 Subject: black-Friday notebook deal -- Linux! In-Reply-To: <20111125214336.GA6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125200610.GY6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ED004FC.90200@rogers.com> <20111125214336.GA6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I've been pretty happy with my.Asus running linux. Core i7, plenty of RAM. Drivers work just fine.F or Asus laptops, you're gotta be careful about the ones with the "hybrid" graphics cards. The secondary (high-power) card is not really supported , although slash recently had an article on emerging support On Nov 25, 2011 1:44 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 04:13:32PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > > I recently bought a Lenovo E520 ThinkPad that has the normal > > keyboard. A friend recently bought a Dell, but returned it because > > of that multilingual keyboard and got a ThinkPad instead, again with > > the normal keyboard. > > On thinkpad models you get to pick. On Ideapad models you do not. > It's stupid. Can't get a thinkpad with good speakers though, nor with > a nice dedicated nvidia graphics chip. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 26 04:09:05 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 23:09:05 -0500 Subject: black-Friday notebook deal -- Linux! In-Reply-To: <4ED004FC.90200-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125200610.GY6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ED004FC.90200@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4ED06661.2030405@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > I recently bought a Lenovo E520 ThinkPad that has the normal keyboard. Forgot to mention, this computer works well with Linux. It's a type 1143-3BU and I've installed openSUSE 12.1 on it. All the hardware I've tried works, including WiFi, web cam, audio etc. http://canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=710_664_665&item_id=039067 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 26 04:43:20 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 23:43:20 -0500 Subject: gconf bug on Debian Unstable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Michael Hill wrote: > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 10:31 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: > >> There are a few people who say that simply logging out and back in >> again solves the problem. Anyone on here with Debian Unstable confirm >> this? > > Okay, I have gconf2 3.2.3-1 running, although gnome-terminal is still > 2.30.2-1. ?No problems with terminal or emacs, but evolution gives me > a couple of these: > > (evolution:3117): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: g_object_get_property: > object class `EShellSettings' has no property named > `cal-primary-calendar' > > Everything else look fine. > Well, then I risked it and went ahead with all the upgrades. Logged in to my shiny new Gnome 3 desktop, and no sign of anything not working. Gnome 3 is actually pretty cool, aside from a few minor annoyances. -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 26 08:00:41 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 03:00:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: chilling: Microsoft's attack on Barnes and Noble (i.e. Android) Message-ID: This is story is a couple of weeks old, but I'm just getting around to reading it now. I found it very interesting and infuriating: Microsoft is threatening B&N via very stupid / trivial patents. Threats include trying to block Nook imports into the US. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 26 12:00:30 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 07:00:30 -0500 Subject: chilling: Microsoft's attack on Barnes and Noble (i.e. Android) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:00 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > This is story is a couple of weeks old, but I'm just getting around to > reading it now. > > I found it very interesting and infuriating: > ? > > Microsoft is threatening B&N via very stupid / trivial patents. ?Threats > include trying to block Nook imports into the US. Man, if you get down to it, aren't ALL patents stupid on some level? I've been reading a lot about invention lately, and I've watched several BBC series on the history of science, math, and so on. It seems to me that everything is based on someone's prior work, and not in some trivial way. Babbage's computer is based on Jacquard's Loom and so on, down through history. Invention is a communal effort, the myth of the lone inventor is just that. Patents only seem to represent who got to a lawyer first. -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 26 12:29:55 2011 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 07:29:55 -0500 Subject: chilling: Microsoft's attack on Barnes and Noble (i.e. Android) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1378387.LhBv0XDscl@grouchy.120> It seems that a lot of this would be solved by insisting on comprehensive documentation on application, and a very short time for protection (at least for software), say, a year. Dunc On November 26, 2011 07:00:30 AM you wrote: > On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:00 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > This is story is a couple of weeks old, but I'm just getting around to > > reading it now. > > > > I found it very interesting and infuriating: > > > > > > Microsoft is threatening B&N via very stupid / trivial patents. Threats > > include trying to block Nook imports into the US. > > Man, if you get down to it, aren't ALL patents stupid on some level? > I've been reading a lot about invention lately, and I've watched > several BBC series on the history of science, math, and so on. It > seems to me that everything is based on someone's prior work, and not > in some trivial way. Babbage's computer is based on Jacquard's Loom > and so on, down through history. Invention is a communal effort, the > myth of the lone inventor is just that. Patents only seem to represent > who got to a lawyer first. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 26 12:43:56 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 07:43:56 -0500 Subject: chilling: Microsoft's attack on Barnes and Noble (i.e. Android) In-Reply-To: <1378387.LhBv0XDscl-sb60JjQlQz7I0729u30ZFQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1378387.LhBv0XDscl@grouchy.120> Message-ID: <4ED0DF0C.1000400@rogers.com> Duncan MacGregor wrote: > It seems that a lot of this would be solved by insisting on comprehensive > documentation on application, and a very short time for protection (at least > for software), say, a year. > > One problem with the Micros~1 attacks is their claims are vague and they require the victim to sign a non-disclosure agreement. Given that patents are supposed to be publicly available, why the non-disclosure? Patent infringementclaims should be fully documented up front and non-disclosure in them agreements banned. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 26 12:46:15 2011 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 14:46:15 +0200 Subject: chilling: Microsoft's attack on Barnes and Noble (i.e. Android) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Nov 26, 2011 2:00 PM, "Thomas Milne" wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:00 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > This is story is a couple of weeks old, but I'm just getting around to > > reading it now. > > > > I found it very interesting and infuriating: > > > > > > Microsoft is threatening B&N via very stupid / trivial patents. Threats > > include trying to block Nook imports into the US. > > Man, if you get down to it, aren't ALL patents stupid on some level? > I've been reading a lot about invention lately, and I've watched > several BBC series on the history of science, math, and so on. It > seems to me that everything is based on someone's prior work, and not > in some trivial way. Babbage's computer is based on Jacquard's Loom > and so on, down through history. Invention is a communal effort, the > myth of the lone inventor is just that. Patents only seem to represent > who got to a lawyer first. > Patents are ment to protect the inventors. in today's US patent system, it does the oposite. I wonder what's the situation in Canada. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 26 14:15:36 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Russell Reiter) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:15:36 -0500 Subject: chilling: Microsoft's attack on Barnes and Noble (i.e. Android) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:00 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > This is story is a couple of weeks old, but I'm just getting around to > reading it now. > > I found it very interesting and infuriating: > ? > > Microsoft is threatening B&N via very stupid / trivial patents. ?Threats > include trying to block Nook imports into the US. American "manifest destiny", as is recorded it in their own documentation, sticks in the craw of a lot of people, including some Americans. The idea that not only must I succeed but that all others must fail is so entrenched in that "robber baron" mentality that in one sense you must be a robber baron yourself, just to be able to compete. I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I haven't bought a Microsoft product for myself since dos 6.2. In that sense I consider myself a "privateer" :-) as after a brief exposure when I trained in systems integration, I learned how to use MS Windows by helping others who often were using non purchased copies of the software. I did use non purchased copies at one time but now do not. Ok that's not quite true, every once and a while I install a copy of another OS, just to see what the hype is all about, then I erase it. Nothing is ever as good as it is advertised. That's why the US has laws about how fine the fine print on a package may be, 6 or 8pt I believe. Oddly enough here in Canada we do not. It can be as teeny tiny as you want, except for smokes and beer's and certain medications, all the rest is "let the buyer beware". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 26 15:41:46 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:41:46 -0500 Subject: gnome-tweak-tool Message-ID: Very useful for Gnome 3 users: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeTweakTool Packaged on Debian :-) -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 26 16:04:18 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R. Russell Reiter) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:04:18 -0500 Subject: chilling: Microsoft's attack on Barnes and Noble (i.e. Android) Message-ID: <038c7e65-a424-4a93-b614-01d2e630b26c@email.android.com> >On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:00 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier >wrote: >> This is story is a couple of weeks old, but I'm just getting around >to >> reading it now. >> >> I found it very interesting and infuriating: >> ? >> >> Microsoft is threatening B&N via very stupid / trivial patents. >?Threats >> include trying to block Nook imports into the US. > American "manifest destiny", as is recorded it in their own documentation, sticks in the craw of a lot of people, including some Americans. The idea that not only must I succeed but that all others must fail is so entrenched in that "robber baron" mentality that in one sense you must be a robber baron yourself, just to be able to compete. I guess what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I haven't bought a Microsoft product for myself since dos 6.2. In that sense I consider myself a "privateer" :-) as after a brief exposure when I trained in systems integration, I learned how to use MS Windows by helping others who often were using non purchased copies of the software. I did use non purchased copies at one time but now do not. Ok that's not quite true, every once and a while I install a copy of another OS, just to see what the hype is all about, then I erase it. Nothing is ever as good as it is advertised. That's why the US has laws about how fine the fine print on a package may be, 6 or 8pt I believe. Oddly enough here in Canada we do not. It can be as teeny tiny as you want, except for smokes and beer's and certain medications, all the rest is "let the buyer beware". Third Heuristic Object Record Notation UML Class [RESERVATIONS] TODOS -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 26 16:14:33 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R. Russell Reiter) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 11:14:33 -0500 Subject: chilling: Microsoft's attack on Barnes and Noble (i.e. Android) In-Reply-To: <038c7e65-a424-4a93-b614-01d2e630b26c-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <038c7e65-a424-4a93-b614-01d2e630b26c@email.android.com> Message-ID: <9211f8c6-66bc-4500-9899-3ff37976104e@email.android.com> Ooops, sorry for the double posting. Slide keyboard again. I was trying to forward to another t contact from my list. Now to find the send in five minutes so I can change my mind option. Third Heuristic Object Record Notation UML Class [RESERVATIONS] TODOS #train the meetware -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 27 01:45:22 2011 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:45:22 +1100 Subject: gnome-tweak-tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1322358322.6614.1.camel@turminder-xuss.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 10:41 -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > Very useful for Gnome 3 users: > > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeTweakTool > Specifically, you need it (or at least, it make it dramatically easier) to manage extensions [where manage := turn on]. AfC Sydney -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 27 13:22:29 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R. Russell Reiter) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 08:22:29 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: <4ECFF33D.9020707-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFD85D.6090409@utoronto.ca> <4ECFE23C.5020904@utoronto.ca> <4ECFF33D.9020707@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: I think this conversation must be similar to one held by ARPA just before they pulled the plug on MULTICS funding. I'm a little weak on the details, but wasn't this the formative basis of the BSD code. I think it boils down to the fact that you cannot legislate or otherwise compel someone to moral behaviour, you can only punish immoral behaviour. Thats the "rub." There is no data security without trust. But who to trust and when to trust them is a question of the ages. Roman emperors wrapped strips of paper around cylinders of a certain diameter. They then wrote the message along the length of it and then unwrapped the paper. Only if the paper was wrapped around a same sized stick, could the message be deciphered. You can bet the messages and the sticks traveled by different routes and that no messenger had access to both. Jamon Camisso wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >On 11/25/2011 02:19 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> Characteristic case: the rape crisis centre, where the admins in the >> back room have NO business having access to the data, prurient or >> otherwise. Victims won't talk freely if their skin crawls at the >> thought of unknown people reading their accounts - data simply won't >> get recorded unless it is secured against the admins, and that's not >> "one layer of admins, but not the others that we do trust", that's >> secured against access by ALL the admins. Your premise of an extra >> layer of administrators doesn't work. > >That's a great example of how trust can be shifted from one party to >another. But my point is that ultimately, there's still a leap of faith >on everyone's part to trust in other parties. Otherwise a) no one would >call, b) no one would be hired in the first place. The admins may not >be >trusted, but the staff or volunteers are. Presumably the training or >vetting undergone by the staff could just as easily be administered to >the admins. > >> A less sensitive, but still interesting example is that of library >> data collection: > >> The surprising result is that the library doesn't need to keep a list >> of what people are reading to stop theft. A few simple one way >> functions can lock out even the most adept snoops. (A good one-way >> function is the Secure Hash Algorithm or SHA and many toolkits now >> come with implementations that implement it and a more general, >> metaprotocol, the HMAC.)" >> >> You don't store the list of individuals and the books they have >> borrowed, you store SHA1 digests of those. > >Sure you don't, but what stops the librarian from storing said list >when >you checkout a book? > >This is the whole point. Technical systems be damned, no matter how far >you take it, you have to trust someone or something. That's all that >I'm >saying. > >The broader theme here is understanding where to place one's trust >depending on the configuration of one's systems or staff, and >evaluating >those against the risk factors involved in a possible compromise. > >Jamon >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > >iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJOz/M5AAoJEDJp9n+rTckFHVQQAMBV5ViglXQUpz541SaPVsNl >fcY7IIuiCLfUqgZE7u4xmDlk9izOM/5+mQpp3C+TbH8FoWzdUUHxSh0hyoDs/INw >FyR07VUOuJq+DRYZdx3PUDTbeALyy7NqU4bIeaDUe8K30PLbce/OR3rjkiljsHRg >TmklRzivk4oGtBPUS4rlNYlqXz3aQYD4pnnCRAoExqWfD8nWMBofrd5hEnbwXvtg >KqBhmh/Jo4E8S+IZ+EcLr443eAIdZAO8FSex/BGFPKlj8uqclMEPgYqBNSwtTZ9P >c+qMyKYr1HryQMwoUkj/jOyQ7AkTN772sYpVAgCZgMDZQt4bmoSJC8CELybb5fzX >PgwDZqPPRwwfz3VfeJ7Wdg17X3rCwAxiQ/oft1Hc/jECxDDtJFzDD8DrekB9qNMT >lw8fIPz6sJneREgQB8l1DrT7WdioF0aw0uswlYTbFJXj3906nUngeZfsLpNygd3y >GGJo0PUTqCy14mnikZRFd77MkQjR8C1zvD8HvORwOM3UjqZAHTD+FGy3zevWbdWp >JKeBDea4/zJ2sCoI8Pvzmb9/zosvWw+Z/v07Srwf1QIzNiunbfNQgmsG+lP4Avp6 >YIghiCcQI6CQSSXDM3vg8tpubWwXbzMXveQy+dj/YcPsAt4DTG+rFzeOLF9xmQvu >UQj8JEAU3gNsMvjfATe4 >=A2C3 >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists R. Russell Reiter's Left Brain Messaging Matrix [Currently Under Development] Your mileage may vary. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 27 18:23:34 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 13:23:34 -0500 Subject: gnome-tweak-tool In-Reply-To: <1322358322.6614.1.camel-h+bEsSVjjEvomGmVskzo88GHMNzfLsLvu/SBMH9hmaLwNE34jsGUJe658FiBabzs@public.gmane.org> References: <1322358322.6614.1.camel@turminder-xuss.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Andrew Cowie wrote: > On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 10:41 -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: >> Very useful for Gnome 3 users: >> >> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeTweakTool >> > > Specifically, you need it (or at least, it make it dramatically easier) > to manage extensions [where manage := turn on]. > I can't get 3.2 in Debian Unstable yet, so I have to wait for extensions :( -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 27 21:31:44 2011 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 16:31:44 -0500 Subject: gnome-tweak-tool In-Reply-To: References: <1322358322.6614.1.camel@turminder-xuss.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I can't get 3.2 in Debian Unstable yet, so I have to wait for extensions :( I've added experimental to sources.list; does anyone know what to pin these days to get 3.2 installed? I still seem to have a mixture. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 27 21:55:09 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 16:55:09 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFD85D.6090409@utoronto.ca> <4ECFE23C.5020904@utoronto.ca> <4ECFF33D.9020707@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Well, the "security" of the rolls mostly depends on the attacker not knowing how it works, and the majority of the population being comprised of illiterate slaves. Having 3 or 4 rolls of different sizes would suffice for cracking most of this; knowing the fact of variable roll size is 99% of the trick. A considerable portion of security from encryption is achieved by minimizing the source text, notably to keep out readily guessable plain text. In WWII, British decryption efforts were helped plenty by German officers that considered it a "career limiting" factor *not* to end messages with "Heil Hitler". That perception mayn't have been wrong, but those bits of predictable plain text almost certainly caused the losses of German U-Boats, as it provided a vulnerability for Allied cryptographers to exploit. F. L. Bauer's book on cryptography describes other "politically necessary" sorts of cryptographic protocol failures - when messages contain fawning phrasing ("by order of the fuhrer") or spelling out some of the wacky long officer titles in high command, this all helps in attacking: A) individual messages B) message keys that will be used on other messages (Hence, the sloppy bozo may wind up getting others that are competent killed) C) the cipher system as a whole. Bauer observes that a *good* cryptograms clerk: - removes all unnecessary text - abbreviates heavily - misspells whatever they can That seems like it's likely to still be valid-ish. We do have stronger ciphers, today, but the notion that having known plaintext helps certainly persists in modern cryptanalysis. You'll see it a fair bit in Bruce Schneier's writing (sp?) On some extra reflection, there is a harmful aspect to encrypting your whole system, as this introduces a barrel load of known plaintext. Forget about a few references to Nazi haute, you are throwing in a dozen copies of the GPL, and as likely as not, a gigabyte of well-known binary and text data. Lots of material for cryptanalysis, quite possibly enough to meaningfully enhance a brute force attack. And when it's certain that the key for all that will be in the VM, a smart attacker won't bother with brute force when getting the key from the VM will provide the Keys To The Kingdom. Better still, once cracked, you can't fix it - changing the key requires rebuilding your VM. A *really* smart attacker may be sufficiently ready that they'll regain access before you can reboot into the new VM! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 28 11:05:07 2011 From: rreiter91-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R. Russell Reiter) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 06:05:07 -0500 Subject: Encryption, paranoia and virtual machines In-Reply-To: References: <20111125152312.GA23173@watson-wilson.ca> <4ECFD85D.6090409@utoronto.ca> <4ECFE23C.5020904@utoronto.ca> <4ECFF33D.9020707@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <9678ed11-4bb7-4128-b942-f3311eaae381@email.android.com> Ah, the enigma codes. The German esszett ligature (also called the scharfes s (sharp s)) ? evolved from the ligature"long s over round s". It is replaced by 'SS' in capitalized spelling and in alphabetic ordering. ? is only used in Germany and Austria, nowadays generally never in Switzerland. The code might have been a little harder to crack if there weren't apparantly orphaned SS's in messages. I wonder how tlug.?.org would resolve. Cheers, Ru?ell Christopher Browne wrote: >Well, the "security" of the rolls mostly depends on the attacker not >knowing how it works, and the majority of the population being >comprised of >illiterate slaves. Having 3 or 4 rolls of different sizes would >suffice >for cracking most of this; knowing the fact of variable roll size is >99% of >the trick. > >A considerable portion of security from encryption is achieved by >minimizing the source text, notably to keep out readily guessable plain >text. In WWII, British decryption efforts were helped plenty by German >officers that considered it a "career limiting" factor *not* to end >messages with "Heil Hitler". That perception mayn't have been wrong, >but >those bits of predictable plain text almost certainly caused the losses >of >German U-Boats, as it provided a vulnerability for Allied >cryptographers to >exploit. > >F. L. Bauer's book on cryptography describes other "politically >necessary" >sorts of cryptographic protocol failures - when messages contain >fawning >phrasing ("by order of the fuhrer") or spelling out some of the wacky >long >officer titles in high command, this all helps in attacking: >A) individual messages >B) message keys that will be used on other messages >(Hence, the sloppy bozo may wind up getting others that are competent >killed) >C) the cipher system as a whole. > >Bauer observes that a *good* cryptograms clerk: >- removes all unnecessary text >- abbreviates heavily >- misspells whatever they can > >That seems like it's likely to still be valid-ish. > >We do have stronger ciphers, today, but the notion that having known >plaintext helps certainly persists in modern cryptanalysis. You'll see >it >a fair bit in Bruce Schneier's writing (sp?) > >On some extra reflection, there is a harmful aspect to encrypting your >whole system, as this introduces a barrel load of known plaintext. >Forget >about a few references to Nazi haute, you are throwing in a dozen >copies of >the GPL, and as likely as not, a gigabyte of well-known binary and text >data. Lots of material for cryptanalysis, quite possibly enough to >meaningfully enhance a brute force attack. > >And when it's certain that the key for all that will be in the VM, a >smart >attacker won't bother with brute force when getting the key from the VM >will provide the Keys To The Kingdom. Better still, once cracked, you >can't fix it - changing the key requires rebuilding your VM. A >*really* >smart attacker may be sufficiently ready that they'll regain access >before >you can reboot into the new VM! R. Russell Reiter's Left Brain Messaging Matrix [Currently Under Development] Your mileage may vary. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 28 14:30:42 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:30:42 -0500 Subject: gnome-tweak-tool In-Reply-To: References: <1322358322.6614.1.camel@turminder-xuss.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Michael Hill wrote: > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: > >> I can't get 3.2 in Debian Unstable yet, so I have to wait for extensions :( > > I've added experimental to sources.list; does anyone know what to pin > these days to get 3.2 installed? ?I still seem to have a mixture. > I'm not sure about that, but when I was on #debian-gnome the other day someone was saying that 3.2 is coming to _Testing_ really soon, so we should not have to wait very long on Unstable, right? -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 28 16:05:09 2011 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:05:09 -0500 Subject: gnome-tweak-tool In-Reply-To: References: <1322358322.6614.1.camel@turminder-xuss.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Michael Hill wrote: >> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Thomas Milne >> wrote: >> >>> I can't get 3.2 in Debian Unstable yet, so I have to wait for extensions :( >> >> I've added experimental to sources.list; does anyone know what to pin >> these days to get 3.2 installed? ?I still seem to have a mixture. > > I'm not sure about that, but when I was on #debian-gnome the other day > someone was saying that 3.2 is coming to _Testing_ really soon, so we > should not have to wait very long on Unstable, right? Right! I was just hoping someone could tell me how to reconcile the pinning in /etc/apt/preferences.d/gnome from here: http://raphaelhertzog.com/2011/06/16/installing-gnome-3-on-debian-6-0-squeeze-no-sorry/ ...with the packages I need that are ready here: http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.2-status.html Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 28 18:53:08 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:53:08 -0500 Subject: black-Friday notebook deal -- Linux! In-Reply-To: References: <20111125200610.GY6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ED004FC.90200@rogers.com> <20111125214336.GA6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20111128185308.GD6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 05:50:36PM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I've been pretty happy with my.Asus running linux. Core i7, plenty of RAM. > Drivers work just fine.F > > or Asus laptops, you're gotta be careful about the ones with the "hybrid" > graphics cards. The secondary (high-power) card is not really supported , > although slash recently had an article on emerging support It is being worked on, but yes it can be a hassle. Some systems have a BIOS option to enable either the intel, the nvidia or dynamic switching. I believe linux is OK with it if set to one or the other for now. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 29 04:39:45 2011 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:39:45 -0500 Subject: black-Friday notebook deal -- Linux! In-Reply-To: <4ED06661.2030405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125200610.GY6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ED004FC.90200@rogers.com> <4ED06661.2030405@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:09 PM, James Knott wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> >> I recently bought a Lenovo E520 ThinkPad that has the normal keyboard. > > Forgot to mention, this computer works well with Linux. ?It's a type > 1143-3BU and I've installed openSUSE 12.1 on it. ?All the hardware I've > tried works, including WiFi, web cam, audio etc. > http://canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=710_664_665&item_id=039067 Good to know its Linux-friendly. My Dad will probably be looking for a laptop soon ... this machine looks like a good fit for him at a reasonable price. Normally I would steer him towards the Thinkpad T520 but its overkill for his needs and this Edge E520 would save him a few hundred dollars. Thanks for sharing. -- ? ? // [ - .- ] ?,< http://www.circuidipity.com [ ?# ?]\/ OOO -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 29 05:46:11 2011 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 00:46:11 -0500 Subject: black-Friday notebook deal -- Linux! In-Reply-To: <20111128185308.GD6035-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20111125200610.GY6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ED004FC.90200@rogers.com> <20111125214336.GA6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20111128185308.GD6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4ED471A3.5080009@gmail.com> On 28/11/11 13:53, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 05:50:36PM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> I've been pretty happy with my.Asus running linux. Core i7, plenty of RAM. >> Drivers work just fine.F >> >> or Asus laptops, you're gotta be careful about the ones with the "hybrid" >> graphics cards. The secondary (high-power) card is not really supported , >> although slash recently had an article on emerging support > > It is being worked on, but yes it can be a hassle. Some systems have a > BIOS option to enable either the intel, the nvidia or dynamic switching. > I believe linux is OK with it if set to one or the other for now. > I should add that these systems don't really have hybrid graphics cards. Usually the chip itself has the intel hd 3000 stuff and then there is nvidia graphics card as an addon. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 29 13:09:12 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:09:12 -0500 Subject: black-Friday notebook deal -- Linux! In-Reply-To: References: <20111125200610.GY6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ED004FC.90200@rogers.com> <4ED06661.2030405@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4ED4D978.4030802@rogers.com> Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: > On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:09 PM, James Knott wrote: > >> James Knott wrote: >> >>> I recently bought a Lenovo E520 ThinkPad that has the normal keyboard. >>> >> Forgot to mention, this computer works well with Linux. It's a type >> 1143-3BU and I've installed openSUSE 12.1 on it. All the hardware I've >> tried works, including WiFi, web cam, audio etc. >> http://canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=710_664_665&item_id=039067 >> > Good to know its Linux-friendly. My Dad will probably be looking for a > laptop soon ... this machine looks like a good fit for him at a > reasonable price. Normally I would steer him towards the Thinkpad T520 > but its overkill for his needs and this Edge E520 would save him a few > hundred dollars. > > Thanks for sharing. > > In order to get WiFi to work in openSUSE 12.1, I had to do the following: Install rfkill Edit /etc/sysconfig/network/ifcfg-wlan0 to change "WIRELESS_POWER="no" to "none" At root command prompt: rfmod -f acer_wmi rfkill unblock all echo "blacklist acer_wmi" >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 29 21:48:18 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:48:18 -0500 Subject: gnome-tweak-tool In-Reply-To: References: <1322358322.6614.1.camel@turminder-xuss.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Michael Hill wrote: > On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Michael Hill wrote: >>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Thomas Milne >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I can't get 3.2 in Debian Unstable yet, so I have to wait for extensions :( >>> >>> I've added experimental to sources.list; does anyone know what to pin >>> these days to get 3.2 installed? ?I still seem to have a mixture. >> >> I'm not sure about that, but when I was on #debian-gnome the other day >> someone was saying that 3.2 is coming to _Testing_ really soon, so we >> should not have to wait very long on Unstable, right? > > Right! ?I was just hoping someone could tell me how to reconcile the > pinning in /etc/apt/preferences.d/gnome from here: > > http://raphaelhertzog.com/2011/06/16/installing-gnome-3-on-debian-6-0-squeeze-no-sorry/ I think those instructions might be a bit out of date now, but I'm not the authority on that. > ...with the packages I need that are ready here: > > http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.2-status.html > > I tried it with pinning like so: /etc/apt/preferences Package: * Pin: release a=unstable Pin-Priority: 900 Package: * Pin: release a=experimental Pin-Priority: 600 #unstable deb http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib deb-src http://debian.mirror.iweb.ca/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org unstable main deb-src http://www.debian-multimedia.org unstable main #experimental deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian experimental main but got this: node1:/home/joehill# apt-get -t experimental install gnome-shell Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created or been moved out of Incoming. The following information may help to resolve the situation: The following packages have unmet dependencies: gnome-shell : Depends: gir1.2-folks-0.6 but it is not going to be installed Depends: gir1.2-gee-1.0 but it is not installable Depends: gir1.2-glib-2.0 (>= 1.31) but 0.10.8-2+b1 is to be installed Depends: gir1.2-gmenu-3.0 but it is not installable Depends: libedataserverui-3.0-1 (>= 3.2.1) but it is not going to be installed Depends: gir1.2-accountsservice-1.0 but it is not installable Depends: gir1.2-caribou-1.0 but it is not installable Recommends: gnome-contacts but it is not going to be installed E: Broken packages -- Thomas Milne -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 29 22:23:25 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:23:25 -0500 Subject: Where can I get older PCI video cards in the GTA? Message-ID: <20111129222325.GA2203@waltdnes.org> First a bit of background. After the revelation that the lead developers for udev want to require that /usr be on the same partition as / (or else use /initramfs) I looked for a way to dump udev entirely. Since I didn't know whether it would even boot up, I tested on an older Dell. Following instructions I picked up on the Gentoo Developers' list. I replaced udev with busybox's mdev under Gentoo, and it works just fine so far. I want to use it as my everyday machine for extended testing. The only problem is that I've subscribed to NHL GameCenter Live and the onboard GPU (82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics Controller) in this older Dell is not powerful enough to keep up with hockey in fullscreen mode. On my newer i3 machine, I've got a choice between 3 megabits and "adaptive" on the NHL control panel. On the older machine, that choice is greyed out, and the picture will often stutter in fullscreen mode. I said to myself "No problem, I've got a PCI video card kicking around. I'll stick it in and I'm set". Unfortunately, PCI slots seem to have changed over the years, and the video card doesn't fit into the slots on the older Dell. I don't know the names of the specs, but as they say "a picture is worth a thousand words". First a picture of the slots in the older Dell... http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/misc/slots.jpg Next is a snap of an older firewire card (left) which fits the slot, and the spare video card (right) which does not fit... http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/misc/cards.jpg Where can I get a PCI video card that fits into the PCI slots on the old Dell? And I'd obviously prefer something with opensource drivers for linux. It would be a shame to throw out an otherwise perfectly good machine. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 29 22:29:57 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:29:57 -0500 Subject: Where can I get older PCI video cards in the GTA? In-Reply-To: <20111129222325.GA2203-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111129222325.GA2203@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > > I said to myself "No problem, I've got a PCI video card kicking > around. I'll stick it in and I'm set". Unfortunately, PCI slots seem > to have changed over the years, and the video card doesn't fit into the > slots on the older Dell. I don't know the names of the specs, but as > they say "a picture is worth a thousand words". First a picture of the > slots in the older Dell... > http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/misc/slots.jpg > Next is a snap of an older firewire card (left) which fits the slot, and > the spare video card (right) which does not fit... > http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/misc/cards.jpg > That's an AGP video card, not PCI: http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/agpcompatibility.html And there were at least two variants of AGP connector, and about three different voltages the cards could work at. I think the black slot is also an AGP slot, but it's too old for your video card. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 29 22:28:51 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:28:51 -0500 Subject: Where can I get older PCI video cards in the GTA? In-Reply-To: <20111129222325.GA2203-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111129222325.GA2203@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4ED55CA3.40608@gmail.com> That's a AGP card slot ?? one is pci , one is AGP evolution of graphics cards was pci, agp, pci-express #.# IIRC On 11/29/2011 05:23 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > First a bit of background. After the revelation that the lead > developers for udev want to require that /usr be on the same partition > as / (or else use /initramfs) I looked for a way to dump udev entirely. > Since I didn't know whether it would even boot up, I tested on an older > Dell. Following instructions I picked up on the Gentoo Developers' > list. I replaced udev with busybox's mdev under Gentoo, and it works > just fine so far. I want to use it as my everyday machine for extended > testing. The only problem is that I've subscribed to NHL GameCenter > Live and the onboard GPU (82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics > Controller) in this older Dell is not powerful enough to keep up with > hockey in fullscreen mode. On my newer i3 machine, I've got a choice > between 3 megabits and "adaptive" on the NHL control panel. On the > older machine, that choice is greyed out, and the picture will often > stutter in fullscreen mode. > > I said to myself "No problem, I've got a PCI video card kicking > around. I'll stick it in and I'm set". Unfortunately, PCI slots seem > to have changed over the years, and the video card doesn't fit into the > slots on the older Dell. I don't know the names of the specs, but as > they say "a picture is worth a thousand words". First a picture of the > slots in the older Dell... > http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/misc/slots.jpg > Next is a snap of an older firewire card (left) which fits the slot, and > the spare video card (right) which does not fit... > http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/misc/cards.jpg > > Where can I get a PCI video card that fits into the PCI slots on the > old Dell? And I'd obviously prefer something with opensource drivers > for linux. It would be a shame to throw out an otherwise perfectly good > machine. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 29 22:30:59 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:30:59 -0500 Subject: Where can I get older PCI video cards in the GTA? In-Reply-To: <20111129222325.GA2203-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111129222325.GA2203@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4ED55D23.3020207@gmail.com> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=319&name=PCI-Video-Cards& take your pick, and they are all cheap. :) -tl On 11/29/2011 05:23 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > First a bit of background. After the revelation that the lead > developers for udev want to require that /usr be on the same partition > as / (or else use /initramfs) I looked for a way to dump udev entirely. > Since I didn't know whether it would even boot up, I tested on an older > Dell. Following instructions I picked up on the Gentoo Developers' > list. I replaced udev with busybox's mdev under Gentoo, and it works > just fine so far. I want to use it as my everyday machine for extended > testing. The only problem is that I've subscribed to NHL GameCenter > Live and the onboard GPU (82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics > Controller) in this older Dell is not powerful enough to keep up with > hockey in fullscreen mode. On my newer i3 machine, I've got a choice > between 3 megabits and "adaptive" on the NHL control panel. On the > older machine, that choice is greyed out, and the picture will often > stutter in fullscreen mode. > > I said to myself "No problem, I've got a PCI video card kicking > around. I'll stick it in and I'm set". Unfortunately, PCI slots seem > to have changed over the years, and the video card doesn't fit into the > slots on the older Dell. I don't know the names of the specs, but as > they say "a picture is worth a thousand words". First a picture of the > slots in the older Dell... > http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/misc/slots.jpg > Next is a snap of an older firewire card (left) which fits the slot, and > the spare video card (right) which does not fit... > http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/misc/cards.jpg > > Where can I get a PCI video card that fits into the PCI slots on the > old Dell? And I'd obviously prefer something with opensource drivers > for linux. It would be a shame to throw out an otherwise perfectly good > machine. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 29 23:08:17 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:08:17 -0500 Subject: Where can I get older PCI video cards in the GTA? In-Reply-To: <20111129222325.GA2203-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111129222325.GA2203@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20111129230817.GE6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 05:23:25PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > First a bit of background. After the revelation that the lead > developers for udev want to require that /usr be on the same partition > as / (or else use /initramfs) I looked for a way to dump udev entirely. > Since I didn't know whether it would even boot up, I tested on an older > Dell. Following instructions I picked up on the Gentoo Developers' > list. I replaced udev with busybox's mdev under Gentoo, and it works > just fine so far. I want to use it as my everyday machine for extended > testing. The only problem is that I've subscribed to NHL GameCenter > Live and the onboard GPU (82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics > Controller) in this older Dell is not powerful enough to keep up with > hockey in fullscreen mode. On my newer i3 machine, I've got a choice > between 3 megabits and "adaptive" on the NHL control panel. On the > older machine, that choice is greyed out, and the picture will often > stutter in fullscreen mode. > > I said to myself "No problem, I've got a PCI video card kicking > around. I'll stick it in and I'm set". Unfortunately, PCI slots seem > to have changed over the years, and the video card doesn't fit into the > slots on the older Dell. I don't know the names of the specs, but as > they say "a picture is worth a thousand words". First a picture of the > slots in the older Dell... > http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/misc/slots.jpg Can't be that old. That's a PCIe x16 slot. Any modern video card will fit. The other short black slot is a PCIe x1 slot. Good for sata controllers, USB3 cards, firewire, network cards, etc. The white slots are old PCI slots. Forget those for graphics. The one type you don't have, but which an old video card might use is AGP. Those are usually brown. > Next is a snap of an older firewire card (left) which fits the slot, and > the spare video card (right) which does not fit... > http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/misc/cards.jpg > > Where can I get a PCI video card that fits into the PCI slots on the > old Dell? And I'd obviously prefer something with opensource drivers > for linux. It would be a shame to throw out an otherwise perfectly good > machine. So that's a PCI firewire card, and an AGP video card. So simple, go buy a new PCIe x16 video card. Easy. Your video card is too old, or the machine is too new. Nice problem to have. The other way around would be much harder. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 30 01:06:49 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:06:49 -0500 Subject: Where can I get older PCI video cards in the GTA? In-Reply-To: <20111129222325.GA2203-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111129222325.GA2203@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20111130010649.GA3663@waltdnes.org> Wow, that was fast. Thanks for the quick responses guys. As you can tell, I've forgotten that AGP existed. I'll check out the Tigerdirect store near Weston and Hwy 7 tomorrow. I can get there by bus using the parts of York Region Transit that aren't on strike. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 30 15:03:26 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:03:26 -0500 Subject: Where can I get older PCI video cards in the GTA? In-Reply-To: <20111130010649.GA3663-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111129222325.GA2203@waltdnes.org> <20111130010649.GA3663@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20111130150326.GF6035@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 08:06:49PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > Wow, that was fast. Thanks for the quick responses guys. As you can > tell, I've forgotten that AGP existed. I'll check out the Tigerdirect > store near Weston and Hwy 7 tomorrow. I can get there by bus using the > parts of York Region Transit that aren't on strike. Or better yet to canada computers at rutherford and jane. Tigerdirect is useless and the staff are rude in many cases. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 30 15:40:28 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:40:28 -0500 Subject: openLDAP with slapd-config backend Message-ID: Morning guys, Curious, anyone here have had the "fun" of setting up openLDAP with the new dynamic backend? How the heck do we change the password for the oclRootDN? A little about the problem, it look like now, whenever you set up openLDAP, you have to explicitly add the super user password on the backend so that you can be able to bind and do further configuration either though ldapmodify or the GUI based tools? Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 30 16:00:19 2011 From: sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 11:00:19 -0500 Subject: Where can I get older PCI video cards in the GTA? In-Reply-To: <20111129222325.GA2203-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20111129222325.GA2203@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4ed65311.c40db60a.3d7a.49a7@mx.google.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: