From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 00:08:54 2011 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 10:08:54 +1000 (EST) Subject: Best practice for network configuration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Jun 2011, Christopher Browne wrote: > But that being said, I don't like the idea terribly much. Me either. If you want to centralise management of your servers something like puppet is probably a better idea. At least it fails safe - ie if puppet falls over then you just can't update your servers until you restart it but they will continue to function in the mean time. I note that you mentioned cfengine laster in your post. > Of course, this might be a moot point if the death of DHCP means that > there aren't any clients coherently connected to the network. This argument can be generalised as "Functioning of these servers at this time is irrelevant as their principal reason for being does not currently apply". People sometimes use it as a justificiation for not properly separating nameservers too. I've never liked this argument. I think this argument has some flaws: (1) That you fully understand every function this server performs. You haven't forgotten any of them. (2) Failure or partial-failure of this server won't have worse outcomes than if it continued to run without anyone using it. I know you're not endorsing this. It was just a fine time to mention what I consider to be a logical trap that many sysadmins and architects are falling in to :) Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Contributing member of Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 02:41:58 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:41:58 -0400 Subject: Best practice for network configuration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 27 Jun 2011, Christopher Browne wrote: > >> But that being said, I don't like the idea terribly much. > > Me either. ?If you want to centralise management of your servers something > like puppet is probably a better idea. ?At least it fails safe - ie if > puppet falls over then you just can't update your servers until you restart > it but they will continue to function in the mean time. > > I note that you mentioned cfengine laster in your post. I used to be "cfengine partisan," and haven't actually grown into any liking of Puppet, but am a little more agnostic once the author decided that the *real* version of CFEngine ("Nova") was to be a proprietary thing, with the consequence that any new features that crop up that are deeply good are left out of the "community edition." "Fail safe" is something that's pretty natural for just about any pull-based configuration management system. It sure is nice if an "outage" of the central controller merely means you don't get updates for a while, as opposed to having your brains scooped out. >> Of course, this might be a moot point if the death of DHCP means that >> there aren't any clients coherently connected to the network. > > This argument can be generalised as "Functioning of these servers at this > time is irrelevant as their principal reason for being does not currently > apply". Certainly > People sometimes use it as a justificiation for not properly separating > nameservers too. I once saw this break down for the PostgreSQL project; a few years ago, they had an outage because the effectively authoritative pair of DNS servers were a little too close together. (They had, and still do have, ~4 NS records; at the time, two were primary, and when they got deranged, the other two were neither up to date nor particularly manageable.) People that are serious about DNS availability seem to prefer having permutations of: a) Not just one flavour of DNS server (e.g. - multiple of BIND, NSD, ...) b) Have NS records in multiple zones, so you're not vulnerable to one registry operator "oopsing" you. Thus, multiple of (com|net), (org|info|...others that Afilias are involved with), and perhaps some of (ca|uk|de|us|fr|jp) c) DNS servers not all in one ((legal|geographic) region|data centre) How much paranoia/redundancy to have is a good question without any single correct answer. if your web server's on one box in one data centre, then you lose little by depending on DNS servers sitting in the same subnet, which heads back to the same "moot point" about DHCP. > I've never liked this argument. ?I think this argument has some flaws: > > (1) That you fully understand every function this server performs. ?You > haven't forgotten any of them. I suspect that this may one may be in flux. With the ease of deploying virtual machines, it increasingly makes sense to deploy 15 services by setting up 15 VMs, each running a single service. If they all happen to run on one physical box, that's great; they may be distributed across hardware with little difficulty. (On the other hand, VMs also make it practical to take that mouldering old box running a long-out-of-support version of Mandrake with an unenumerated set of services that nobody knows much about, and that they're all too scared to touch, and keep it running.) > (2) Failure or partial-failure of this server won't have worse outcomes than > if it continued to run without anyone using it. > > I know you're not endorsing this. ?It was just a fine time to mention what I > consider to be a logical trap that many sysadmins and architects are falling > in to :) > > Cheers, Always a fun discussion. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 03:00:12 2011 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 23:00:12 -0400 Subject: Best practice for network configuration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110701030012.GG986@adb.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > (On the other hand, VMs also make it practical to take that mouldering > old box running a long-out-of-support version of Mandrake with an > unenumerated set of services that nobody knows much about, and that > they're all too scared to touch, and keep it running.) Although you _can_ pull a "simple" P2V migration, and escape from dusty failing hardware, or the need to free up the power or space it was using in the datacentre, having a crufty old "scared to touch it" server is an invitation to a really long downtime when something eventually breaks and you don't have it running as a reference for how it's supposed to work anymore. Periodically shifting a service to a fresh node is a way of proving you understand that service and that you can actually support it. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 06:19:01 2011 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 16:19:01 +1000 (EST) Subject: Best practice for network configuration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jun 2011, Christopher Browne wrote: > People that are serious about DNS availability seem to prefer having > permutations of: > a) Not just one flavour of DNS server (e.g. - multiple of BIND, NSD, ...) > b) Have NS records in multiple zones, so you're not vulnerable to one > registry operator "oopsing" you. Thus, multiple of (com|net), > (org|info|...others that Afilias are involved with), and perhaps some > of (ca|uk|de|us|fr|jp) > c) DNS servers not all in one ((legal|geographic) region|data centre) Quite right. I encourage 'physical and logical separation'. Logical separation should really mean address separation and domain separation. > How much paranoia/redundancy to have is a good question without any > single correct answer. Yep, it's a risk assessment. > if your web server's on one box in one data centre, then you lose > little by depending on DNS servers sitting in the same subnet, which > heads back to the same "moot point" about DHCP. I think the arguments I mentioned earlier are still relevant. All else being equal I'd like to avoid a potential problem, and setting up a dns secondary isn't exactly hard. >> I've never liked this argument. ?I think this argument has some flaws: >> >> (1) That you fully understand every function this server performs. ?You >> haven't forgotten any of them. > > I suspect that this may one may be in flux. With the ease of > deploying virtual machines, it increasingly makes sense to deploy 15 > services by setting up 15 VMs, each running a single service. If they Yes I nearly mentioned this in my previous email. I still prefer not to assume that it behaves exactly the way we think it does. I see the use of distributed DNS servers even if you think you don't need them as an application of 'reliability in depth'. > (On the other hand, VMs also make it practical to take that mouldering > old box running a long-out-of-support version of Mandrake with an > unenumerated set of services that nobody knows much about, and that > they're all too scared to touch, and keep it running.) Yes yes they do. Hopefully such hosts are hidden well away from the dangerous world that is fully of baddies that would love nothing more than to 0wn one of your hosts :) Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Contributing member of Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 06:23:40 2011 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 16:23:40 +1000 (EST) Subject: Best practice for network configuration In-Reply-To: <20110701030012.GG986-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20110701030012.GG986@adb.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jun 2011, Anthony de Boer wrote: > Although you _can_ pull a "simple" P2V migration, and escape from dusty > failing hardware, or the need to free up the power or space it was using > in the datacentre, having a crufty old "scared to touch it" server is an > invitation to a really long downtime when something eventually breaks and > you don't have it running as a reference for how it's supposed to work > anymore. Periodically shifting a service to a fresh node is a way of > proving you understand that service and that you can actually support it. True but virtualising it means that it's pretty hard to find yourself in a situation in which you cannot restore it to a known working state. As long as you take backups/snapshots of your VM and it is in any of the common and pseudo-open/open standard formats for VMs then being able to restart it even following the destruction of the hardware on which it lived is fairly easy. Indeed when I've designed DR plans in recent years I've relied on the ability to recover VMs even when the original hardware is a smoudering ruin. The downside of this is that it means a system can reliably live well past what should have been its used by date. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Contributing member of Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 17:46:43 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 13:46:43 -0400 Subject: Best practice for network configuration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110701174643.GA9412@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:41:58PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >I used to be "cfengine partisan," and haven't actually grown into any >liking of Puppet, but am a little more agnostic once the author >decided that the *real* version of CFEngine ("Nova") was to be a >proprietary thing, with the consequence that any new features that >crop up that are deeply good are left out of the "community edition." That is a bit to general. The community free version of Cfengine has most of the features that Nova does. Nova has some centralized reporting which is something that an enterprise organization would want to pay for. The core of both versions are exactly the same. To suggest that Mark Burgess has 'sold out' is a bit much. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 18:07:12 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 14:07:12 -0400 Subject: Hello Message-ID: <4E0F5E50.3060304@gmail.com> I've been away doing my own thing and just wanted to say Hi to everyone, hope you are all having a nice weekend. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 21:31:53 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 17:31:53 -0400 Subject: Atari computer(s) available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have available (disposing for a friend) an Atari 1040ST(FM) computer with a Atari SM124 B/W ~11" monitor, carrying case for both, and owner's manual. There may also be another 1040 and two more monitors available - I haven't got a firm answer on that yet. These are free. You'll have to pick them up, not sure exactly where, but north Toronto and not far off Yonge. Please email me off list if you're interested. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kylewinkler-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 3 01:37:42 2011 From: kylewinkler-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle Winkler) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 21:37:42 -0400 Subject: Atari computer(s) available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Does it come with a mouse and any software? On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > I have available (disposing for a friend) an Atari 1040ST(FM) computer with > a Atari SM124 B/W ~11" monitor, carrying case for both, and owner's manual. > There may also be another 1040 and two more monitors available - I haven't > got a firm answer on that yet. These are free. You'll have to pick them > up, not sure exactly where, but north Toronto and not far off Yonge. Please > email me off list if you're interested. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 3 01:54:45 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 21:54:45 -0400 Subject: Atari computer(s) available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E0FCBE5.8050001@alteeve.com> On 07/02/2011 05:31 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > I have available (disposing for a friend) an Atari 1040ST(FM) computer > with a Atari SM124 B/W ~11" monitor, carrying case for both, and owner's > manual. There may also be another 1040 and two more monitors available > - I haven't got a firm answer on that yet. These are free. You'll have > to pick them up, not sure exactly where, but north Toronto and not far > off Yonge. Please email me off list if you're interested. Lance collects these kinds of machines for a museum he is hoping to open. His collection is already extensive, so maybe he has these. In case not though, I wanted to put a by-proxy dibs in for him and I've cc'ed him on this. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "I feel confined, only free to expand myself within boundaries." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 3 12:52:37 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 08:52:37 -0400 Subject: google+ Message-ID: <4E106615.5090109@gmail.com> I'm on google+, is anyone else on? apparent google+ is close for new people ever after this story? http://gadgetplanet.info/google-plus-now-open-to-all-no-invite-required-update -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 3 13:28:22 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 09:28:22 -0400 Subject: google+ In-Reply-To: <4E106615.5090109-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E106615.5090109@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I'm on google+, is anyone else on? Yes, thanks to Fabio Neves (http://gtalug.org/wiki/Fabio_FZero) I got on. > apparent google+ is close for new people ever after this story? I gather that the demand for Google+ accounts surprised Google, so they have shut down account invites and new registration. This I gather however is a temporary situation, until Google figures out how to deal with the load, then they will open things up again. > http://gadgetplanet.info/google-plus-now-open-to-all-no-invite-required-update > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 3 13:42:44 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:42:44 -0400 Subject: google+ In-Reply-To: References: <4E106615.5090109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E1071D4.7090100@gmail.com> On 11-07-03 09:28 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> I'm on google+, is anyone else on? > Yes, thanks to Fabio Neves (http://gtalug.org/wiki/Fabio_FZero) I got on. Colin I was able to find out, however there are two Fibio Neves >> apparent google+ is close for new people ever after this story? > I gather that the demand for Google+ accounts surprised Google, so > they have shut down account invites and new registration. This I > gather however is a temporary situation, until Google figures out how > to deal with the load, then they will open things up again. That is my take on the situation too, hopefully this will get around to dealing with their capacity issue soon, before Facebook launches their next "Awesome" idea =P -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rajinderyadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 3 13:47:52 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:47:52 -0400 Subject: google+ In-Reply-To: <4E1071D4.7090100-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E106615.5090109@gmail.com> <4E1071D4.7090100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E107308.2070604@gmail.com> On 11-07-03 09:42 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > On 11-07-03 09:28 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Rajinder Yadav >> wrote: >>> I'm on google+, is anyone else on? >> Yes, thanks to Fabio Neves (http://gtalug.org/wiki/Fabio_FZero) I got >> on. > Colin I was able to find out, however there are two Fibio Neves typo that should be Fabio Neves >>> apparent google+ is close for new people ever after this story? >> I gather that the demand for Google+ accounts surprised Google, so >> they have shut down account invites and new registration. This I >> gather however is a temporary situation, until Google figures out how >> to deal with the load, then they will open things up again. > That is my take on the situation too, hopefully this will get around > to dealing with their capacity issue soon, before Facebook launches > their next "Awesome" idea =P > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 3 18:55:38 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 14:55:38 -0400 Subject: google+ In-Reply-To: <4E107308.2070604-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E106615.5090109@gmail.com> <4E1071D4.7090100@gmail.com> <4E107308.2070604@gmail.com> Message-ID: If anyone gets a Google+ Invite, please send me one. Would like to check it out :) On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > On 11-07-03 09:42 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> >> On 11-07-03 09:28 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Rajinder Yadav >>> ?wrote: >>>> >>>> I'm on google+, is anyone else on? >>> >>> Yes, thanks to Fabio Neves (http://gtalug.org/wiki/Fabio_FZero) I got on. >> >> Colin I was able to find out, however there are two Fibio Neves > > typo that should be Fabio Neves > >>>> apparent google+ is close for new people ever after this story? >>> >>> I gather that the demand for Google+ accounts surprised Google, so >>> they have shut down account invites and new registration. This I >>> gather however is a temporary situation, until Google figures out how >>> to deal with the load, then they will open things up again. >> >> That is my take on the situation too, hopefully this will get around to >> dealing with their capacity issue soon, before Facebook launches their next >> "Awesome" idea =P >> > > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 3 20:53:50 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 16:53:50 -0400 Subject: Cheap, Debian/NetBSD Compatible ARM Board Message-ID: Has anyone come across a cheap (less than $50) NetBSD/Debian compatible ARM board? I have been playing around with retro-fitted wyse clients for some time now and have become fascinated with the hackability of some of the ARM based devices on the market. I saw this on dealextreme, and I think all it needs is a serial port soldered to the mainboard to work, as it comes with u-boot. http://www.dealextreme.com/p/standalone-bittorrent-bt-downloader-usb-printer-sharing-network-lan-server-57591 Then there are these buffalo nas devices that go for $50 on ebay http://buffalo.nas-central.org/wiki/Main_Page that are extremely hackable.. I am a bit peeved that it clearly does not cost much to manufacture these devices, and I don't understand why manufacturers insist on locking out the consumer forcing us to take soldering irons to these devices to re-purpose them. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 3 23:48:32 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 19:48:32 -0400 Subject: Cheap, Debian/NetBSD Compatible ARM Board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110703234832.GA5446@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jul 03, 2011 at 04:53:50PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Has anyone come across a cheap (less than $50) NetBSD/Debian compatible ARM > board? > I have been playing around with retro-fitted wyse clients for some time now > and have become fascinated with the hackability of some of the ARM based > devices on the market. > > I saw this on dealextreme, and I think all it needs is a serial port > soldered to the mainboard to work, as it comes with u-boot. > http://www.dealextreme.com/p/standalone-bittorrent-bt-downloader-usb-printer-sharing-network-lan-server-57591 > > Then there are these buffalo nas devices that go for $50 on ebay > http://buffalo.nas-central.org/wiki/Main_Page that are extremely hackable.. > > I am a bit peeved that it clearly does not cost much to manufacture these > devices, and I don't understand why manufacturers insist on locking out the > consumer forcing us to take soldering irons to these devices to re-purpose > them. Same here. I just want to play with ARM motherboard, without having to buy $399-$599 tablets. But, I guess that's what they want, because every time a new model comes out, you have to buy the whole thing again. I guess, it's like "desktop" vs "laptop" argument. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 12:45:26 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 08:45:26 -0400 Subject: Cheap, Debian/NetBSD Compatible ARM Board In-Reply-To: <20110703234832.GA5446-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110703234832.GA5446@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: http://www.glomationinc.com For a small cheap board Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 7:48 PM, William Park wrote: > On Sun, Jul 03, 2011 at 04:53:50PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> Has anyone come across a cheap (less than $50) NetBSD/Debian compatible ARM >> board? >> I have been playing around with retro-fitted wyse clients for some time now >> and have become fascinated with the hackability of some of the ARM based >> devices on the market. >> >> I saw this on dealextreme, and I think all it needs is a serial port >> soldered to the mainboard to work, as it comes with u-boot. >> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/standalone-bittorrent-bt-downloader-usb-printer-sharing-network-lan-server-57591 >> >> Then there are these buffalo nas devices that go for $50 on ebay >> http://buffalo.nas-central.org/wiki/Main_Page that are extremely hackable.. >> >> I am a bit peeved that it clearly does not cost much to manufacture these >> devices, and I don't understand why manufacturers insist on locking out the >> consumer forcing us to take soldering irons to these devices to re-purpose >> them. > > Same here. ?I just want to play with ARM motherboard, without having to > buy $399-$599 tablets. ?But, I guess that's what they want, because > every time a new model comes out, you have to buy the whole thing again. > I guess, it's like "desktop" vs "laptop" argument. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 13:04:18 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:04:18 -0400 Subject: Cheap, Debian/NetBSD Compatible ARM Board In-Reply-To: References: <20110703234832.GA5446@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110704130418.GA31409@watson-wilson.ca> http://soekris.com/products/net5501.html http://soekris.com/net6501.htm Gigabit http://www.pcengines.ch/alix.htm http://www.advantech.com/products/FWA-1305/mod_6EC878A7-A16F-46F5-A129-EFFFF79AE2C8.aspx http://www.axiomtek.com/products/ListProduct.asp?ptype1=209&Ptype2=231&ptype3=232 http://www.ubnt.com/rspro Gigabit -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 13:05:33 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 09:05:33 -0400 Subject: Cheap, Debian/NetBSD Compatible ARM Board In-Reply-To: <20110704130418.GA31409-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20110703234832.GA5446@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110704130418.GA31409@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20110704130533.GB31409@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Jul 04, 2011 at 09:04:18AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: >http://soekris.com/products/net5501.html >http://soekris.com/net6501.htm Gigabit >http://www.pcengines.ch/alix.htm >http://www.advantech.com/products/FWA-1305/mod_6EC878A7-A16F-46F5-A129-EFFFF79AE2C8.aspx >http://www.axiomtek.com/products/ListProduct.asp?ptype1=209&Ptype2=231&ptype3=232 >http://www.ubnt.com/rspro Gigabit Correction. Some are not Arm. Some are MIPS or Atom but functionally they are very similar. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 16:37:38 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: New wireless router In-Reply-To: <20091028175403.GB11671-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20091028175403.GB11671@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart likes his wireless router. Here's his first message about it to the list. I'm mentioning this because it is on sale at $100, for today, at Infonec. That seems to be a good price -- $20ish less than other places. (I recently bought a refurbished Netgear WNDR3700 with similar specs: Note: there are two versions and they have slightly tradeoffs. Its successor, the WNDR4000 is starting to be available. But it is Broadcom-based :-( ) | From: Lennart Sorensen | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:54:03 -0400 | Subject: [TLUG]: New wireless router | Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | | So two days ago, my WL-500gP suddenly decided to stop doing its job, | and after pwoer cycling it it no longer booted. | | Reflashing it seemed to get it booting again, but not for long, and I | then discovered the WAN port had turned into a LAN port on the switch, | which meant the switch chip was no longer being configuring correctly. | | So time for a new router. After looking what was available at local | stores and researching them, I found out simultanious dual band routers | with 802.11n are actually getting affordable now, and some of them are | being worked on and will probably be supported by openwrt and the like | pretty soon. | | So I bought a D-Link DIR-825 rev B1 with 2.02NA firmware (all nicely | labeled on the outside of the box. Linksys could learn something here). | Very specificly NOT a rev A1 (which is apparently a piece of junk, with | totally different hardware and software inside). The rev A uses an ubicom | CPU (300MHz proprietary RISC chip), while the rev B uses a 680MHz atheros | 7161 MIPS 24k CPU. The rev B runs linux (the A does not apparently). | So with a 680MHz CPU and 64MB ram it is quite decent performance. | So far I am impressed. The signal strength for the various wifi enabled | machines in the house is much improved over the old router too. | | I really like the guest wifi feature. I now have it running as: | | wifi5 - WPA2/AES 5GHz 802.11 a/n | | wifi24 - WPA2/AES 2.4GHz 802.11 b/g/n | | wifi24ds - WEP 128bit 2.4GHz 802.11 b/g guest (firewalled from the | other wifi and hence internet only access). I run my Nintendo DS lite | on this now. I never had it able to connect to the internet before | because it doesn't do WPA. | | The only issues with the default settings are a couple of misfeatures. | The QoS support by default tries to measure the upstream bandwidth to | decide how to configure the QoS support. This takes a while, isn't that | accurate and slows down boot time by a noticeable amount. I turned | that off and set my 1Mbit upstream speed manually. Boot time is now | much better and nicer. The second misfeature, is a capcha at the login | screen in addition to the password. That is totally stupid, not even | a well done capcha, and I turned that off too. Everything else is great. | Well the blue LEDs for the ports and power and such are awfully bright. | I made mine face the wall for now. Apparently blue means working and | amber means not yet working on this thing rather than red/green. | | So I would certainly recommend the DIR0825 rev B for anyone that wants | the everything in one and at the same time wifi router. Once openwrt | and such hopefully one day runs on it, it will just get better. | | I also like the fact that the first thing you see when you open up the | box, is a printed copy of the GPL along with an offer of getting a disc | with the GPL parts of the code by writing them or sending an email. | You can also download it from the website ofcourse. The CD with the | windows software also has a note on the back for Mac and Linux (both | listed explicitly) users telling them where on the CD to find the | documentation files. | | -- | Len Sorensen | -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 00:36:49 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 20:36:49 -0400 Subject: Cheap, Debian/NetBSD Compatible ARM Board In-Reply-To: <20110704130533.GB31409-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20110703234832.GA5446@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110704130418.GA31409@watson-wilson.ca> <20110704130533.GB31409@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Excellent list. But all of these devices are over $100 at least when you factor in a case, board and flash. The devices I listed were all under $40 (shipping included). On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Jul 04, 2011 at 09:04:18AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > >> http://soekris.com/products/**net5501.html >> http://soekris.com/net6501.htm Gigabit >> http://www.pcengines.ch/alix.**htm >> http://www.advantech.com/**products/FWA-1305/mod_** >> 6EC878A7-A16F-46F5-A129-**EFFFF79AE2C8.aspx >> http://www.axiomtek.com/**products/ListProduct.asp?** >> ptype1=209&Ptype2=231&ptype3=**232 >> http://www.ubnt.com/rspro Gigabit >> > > Correction. Some are not Arm. Some are MIPS or Atom but functionally > they are very similar. > > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 00:36:58 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 20:36:58 -0400 Subject: Cheap, Debian/NetBSD Compatible ARM Board In-Reply-To: <20110704130533.GB31409-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20110703234832.GA5446@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110704130418.GA31409@watson-wilson.ca> <20110704130533.GB31409@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: Excellent list. But all of these devices are over $100 at least when you factor in a case, board and flash. The devices I listed were all under $40 (shipping included). On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Jul 04, 2011 at 09:04:18AM -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > >> http://soekris.com/products/**net5501.html >> http://soekris.com/net6501.htm Gigabit >> http://www.pcengines.ch/alix.**htm >> http://www.advantech.com/**products/FWA-1305/mod_** >> 6EC878A7-A16F-46F5-A129-**EFFFF79AE2C8.aspx >> http://www.axiomtek.com/**products/ListProduct.asp?** >> ptype1=209&Ptype2=231&ptype3=**232 >> http://www.ubnt.com/rspro Gigabit >> > > Correction. Some are not Arm. Some are MIPS or Atom but functionally > they are very similar. > > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 03:55:39 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 23:55:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Cheap, Debian/NetBSD Compatible ARM Board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Ansar Mohammed | Has anyone come across a cheap (less than $50) NetBSD/Debian compatible ARM | board? It really depends on what your objective function is? How important/valuable are various capabilities? I was very tempted by the $50 price on the Pogoplugs I saw at Bestbuy last Friday. (London Drugs was selling them a while back for $40.) I guess that this is related to Pogoplug dropping hardware products: Google seems to yield less information than last time I checked. I think that these have a 1.2GHz Mavell Sheva ARM chip, 256M RAM, 4 or so USB ports, 128M flash, 1GHz ethernet. Several Linux ports. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 13:43:05 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 06:43:05 -0700 Subject: OT: Unhashed passwords Message-ID: Anyone know if there's a listing of sites/domains that keep user passwords in an unhashed form? I just noticed that webex has a link to retreive (not reset) my password. Sad to see that decent-sized companies often still haven't figured out the simply security precautions that I've seen in even tiny startups. It would be nice to keep track of such places so that I can ensure using a more "throwaway" variety of passwords... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 13:47:26 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 09:47:26 -0400 Subject: OT: Unhashed passwords In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Anyone know if there's a listing of sites/domains that keep user passwords > in an unhashed form? I assume it's everyone, and so keep separate "hashed-by-me" passwords for any new service that needs a password. It's easy enough to encrypt your password list using (gpg|password safe|keepass|...), and you're reasonably protected from morons. At least, if the morons let your password out, it doesn't work for any *OTHER* service... -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 13:58:55 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 09:58:55 -0400 Subject: OT: Unhashed passwords In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I group my into essential site, which will have unique password, and don't care sites which i will use the same password On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Anyone know if there's a listing of sites/domains that keep user passwords > in an unhashed form? > > I just noticed that webex has a link to retreive (not reset) my password. > Sad to see that decent-sized companies often still haven't figured out the > simply security precautions that I've seen in even tiny startups. > > It would be nice to keep track of such places so that I can ensure using a > more "throwaway" variety of passwords... you can always find out yourself by requesting a forgot password at said site. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 14:38:59 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 10:38:59 -0400 Subject: OT: Unhashed passwords In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Anyone know if there's a listing of sites/domains that keep user passwords > in an unhashed form? > > I just noticed that webex has a link to retreive (not reset) my password. > Sad to see that decent-sized companies often still haven't figured out the > simply security precautions that I've seen in even tiny startups. > > It would be nice to keep track of such places so that I can ensure using a > more "throwaway" variety of passwords... Not really most web sites don't say if they are hashing their passwords or ever what hash they might use. Plain Text Offenders is a good place to start by looking at services that will send you a email with your password unencrypted. The "offenders" probably are store your password in plain text. -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 15:39:59 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 11:39:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Atari computer(s) available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Giles Orr | I have available (disposing for a friend) an Atari 1040ST(FM) computer with | a Atari SM124 B/W ~11" monitor, carrying case for both, and owner's manual. I must resist. I already have half a dozen. I will offer the taker a game to play with it too (free). It requires a colour monitor. I don't remember if all 140ST(FM) computers had the RF modulator to work with an analogue TV set. The game is "Borodino". I think that it is complete and unused. | There may also be another 1040 and two more monitors available - I haven't | got a firm answer on that yet. The mono monitors were great for "serious" work. That's what I first bought. But for games, the colour monitors were very important. At least a couple of others on the list used STs back in their day. There was a Linux port, but only to later STs -- ones with MMUs. That would be the TT and the Falcon. Neither of those sold very well. If anyone is disposing of a Falcon, I'd take it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 15:48:54 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 11:48:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Unhashed passwords In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Tyler Aviss | Anyone know if there's a listing of sites/domains that keep user passwords | in an unhashed form? You can never know that a site does not do that. A special case of the rule of testing: testing can never show that there are no bugs. Never recycle passwords. I always generate unique ones for each site. I use expect's mkpasswd. That maximizes entropy without consuming any from my brain. Mailman is pretty clear about the insecurity of its passwords. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 16:46:27 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 12:46:27 -0400 Subject: Atari computer(s) available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 11:39 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > At least a couple of others on the list used STs back in their day. I have a 1040STe that was upgraded to 2MB hiding in a closet. I think the monitor's still in Texas :-). > There was a Linux port, but only to later STs -- ones with MMUs. ?That > would be the TT and the Falcon. ?Neither of those sold very well. ?If > anyone is disposing of a Falcon, I'd take it. The Falcon was pretty nearly "legendary," in various relevant senses. I don't think they ever got a production line going, so any units out there are likely-hand-made prototypes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Falcon The Transputer-based ATW would also be interesting. Perfect for all your Occam needs! (Except that the ATW possibly didn't run Occam, and your Occam needs are likely better served by tock .) -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 17:18:22 2011 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 13:18:22 -0400 Subject: Atari computer(s) available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Atari ST is famous for being the computer that was used by most electronic music producers in the late 80s/early 90s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_ST I was really, *really* tempted, but it wouldn't make any sense for me to have one right now. :-) - Fabio On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 12:46, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 11:39 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> At least a couple of others on the list used STs back in their day. > > I have a 1040STe that was upgraded to 2MB hiding in a closet. ?I think > the monitor's still in Texas :-). > >> There was a Linux port, but only to later STs -- ones with MMUs. ?That >> would be the TT and the Falcon. ?Neither of those sold very well. ?If >> anyone is disposing of a Falcon, I'd take it. > > The Falcon was pretty nearly "legendary," in various relevant senses. > I don't think they ever got a production line going, so any units out > there are likely-hand-made prototypes. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Falcon > > The Transputer-based ATW would also be interesting. > ?Perfect > for all your Occam needs! ?(Except that the ATW possibly didn't run > Occam, and your Occam needs are likely better served by tock > .) > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 17:56:51 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 13:56:51 -0400 Subject: Offsite Backup Message-ID: Hello All, can anyone recommend a good offsite backup solution? I was thinking about rsync.net. Does anyone use their service? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 17:58:25 2011 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 13:58:25 -0400 Subject: Atari computer(s) available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I got an ST originally just because I liked the idea so much, and then started an informal user group so we could figure out together how to work the thing. The mono screen was light-years ahead of the usual TV set display at the time. Then I saw a demo of LaTex being used to typeset math on the Atari laser printer and was so impressed I went out and bought the printer the next day. It was about $1600 and had *no* intelligence whatsoever. LaTeX on the Atari was pretty painful by comparison with the modern working environment, compiling at a rate of a few seconds per line of text. But it did the job. The Atari ST also had the capability of genlocking to a video source, so you could do video overlays and such. Very impressive at the time. Quite expensive compared to the usual accessories, but a tiny fraction of the cost of a commercial unit. Peter > The Atari ST is famous for being the computer that was used by most > electronic music producers in the late 80s/early 90s. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_ST > > I was really, *really* tempted, but it wouldn't make any sense for me > to have one right now. :-) > > - Fabio > > On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 12:46, Christopher Browne > wrote: >> On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 11:39 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier >> wrote: >>> At least a couple of others on the list used STs back in their day. >> >> I have a 1040STe that was upgraded to 2MB hiding in a closet. ??I think >> the monitor's still in Texas :-). >> >>> There was a Linux port, but only to later STs -- ones with MMUs. ??That >>> would be the TT and the Falcon. ??Neither of those sold very well. ??If >>> anyone is disposing of a Falcon, I'd take it. >> >> The Falcon was pretty nearly "legendary," in various relevant senses. >> I don't think they ever got a production line going, so any units out >> there are likely-hand-made prototypes. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Falcon >> >> The Transputer-based ATW would also be interesting. >> ??Perfect >> for all your Occam needs! ??(Except that the ATW possibly didn't run >> Occam, and your Occam needs are likely better served by tock >> .) >> -- >> When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the >> question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ?? ?? ??Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 18:03:05 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 14:03:05 -0400 Subject: Offsite Backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110705180305.GB7848@watson-wilson.ca> I'm using a VPS host that I SSH my backups to. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 19:20:37 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 15:20:37 -0400 Subject: Autodesk toronto seeking a Linux sysadmin Message-ID: <20110705192037.GC8876@watson-wilson.ca> For any who are interested Autodesk is seeking a Linux sysadmin. I know Sam well. If he is still working there the place can't be half bad. Job Description Network Server Administrator: (Job Number: 110000015H) Description Summary: The Autodesk EIS (Enterprise Information Services) UNIX Server Team is empowered to ensure world class operations of the UNIX servers and related services that are essential to Autodesk's business critical applications and processes. The successful applicant will join a high performing global team that employs the "follow the sun" support model to ensure timely and efficient support of Autodesk Linux services. The successful candidate will design, implement, enhance, and/or modify existing services as well as initiate new services that are consistent with the integrated enterprise architectural model. Superlative technical, communication and customer support skills are required for you to be successful within this role. A "best practices", common sense approach to a global Linux Systems Administration role should be demonstrated in his or her previous work experiences and considered second nature to the applicant. A world leader in 3D design, engineering, and entertainment software, Autodesk delivers the broadest product portfolio to empower customers to digitally design, visualize, and simulate their ideas. Job Title: Network Server Administrator #11000000KG Location: San Rafael, CA, and Toronto or Montreal. Principal Duties and Responsibilities: .Senior Linux (RHEL, CentOS) engineer involved in server management: Install, secure, monitor, manage, maintain, and retire Linux servers, both physical and virtual in a global environment. Manage service requests within published SLA. .Manage and collaborate with vendors and cross-functional teams to minimize system downtime with timely & appropriate communication to customers and EIS management. .Provide and promote quality customer support and services to achieve operational excellence and customer satisfaction. .Ensure Linux standards, processes, procedure, and best practices are efficient, effective, documented, and adhered to. .Manage customer expectations by providing timely status updates (written and/or verbal), prioritize and categorize customer requests, and keep customer informed. .Automate processes where possible to improve efficiency. .Actively participate in assigned business/EIS driven projects as a Linux server representative. Provide subject matter expertise, contribution and execute to project plan, provide timely updates. .Work closely with EIS cross-functional teams to deliver optimal systems and solutions. .Maintain server lifecycle management with cost analysis, justification, and proposal with ROI. .Engage with business units to gather and document net new business system requirements, architect/design and obtain solution sign-off, and implement solution that meets established requirements and standards. Personal Skills: .Excellent problem solving and communication skills, along with the ability to work independently, as well as part of a cross-functional global team .Ability to work on complex problems where analysis of situations or data requires in-depth evaluation of various factors. .Sufficient written communications skills for report writing and business correspondences in an organized, complete and concise manner. .Ability to verbally present complex concepts and technical information to non-technical audience in a clear and concise fashion. .Strong interpersonal skills sufficient to conduct business with others in a diplomatic and professional manner. .Proven ability to compose & present technical proposal with justifications, options, recommendations and ROI .Ability to interact positively, clearly, and professionally with customers, peers and upper management. .Flexible, open minded, self motivated, fast learner, initiative, reliable, and a team player. .Ability to multi-task, work independently & calmly under pressure and/or stress .Good written and verbal English communication skills Technical Skills: .Degree in Computer Science or equivalent work experience .8+ years of working experience managing IT enterprise Linux/UNIX servers, Linux clusters & services .Solid knowledge of system management, such as LINUX RedHat "Satellite" and methodologies specifically related to Linux-based operating system, networking/distributed computing environment concepts, and systems security. .Ability to problem solve quickly and ability to propose viable tactical & strategic options & solution .Proven shell scripting skills using bash/Shell/Perl to automate processes. bash, sh, ksh, and tcl scripting ability is a plus. .Excellent & proven skills in analyzing, designing, implementing and system integration. .Thorough understanding and work experience with disk Volume Managers (SVM DiskSuite, Veritas Volume Manager), SSH, Sendmail, BIND DNS, VMWare, name resolution, and network firewall are a must. .Proficient in using MS Office, MS Project and Visio for project management & documentation. .Knowledge and/or experience with Apache HTTP servers, cgi-bin programming, ProFTPd, Webmin, CVS, NetApps storage, EMC storage, NetBackup, and Oracle/SQL database are a plus. Contact: Sam Jaffer Manager, EIS Windows Server Engineering Enterprise Information Services Sam Jaffer Autodesk, Inc. 210 King Street East, Toronto, ON. M5A 1J7 -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 04:42:17 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 00:42:17 -0400 Subject: Offsite Backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E153929.6080105@gmail.com> Amazon S3, it seems somewhat cheaper. On 05/07/11 01:56 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Hello All, > can anyone recommend a good offsite backup solution? I was thinking > about rsync.net . Does anyone use their service? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 14:54:45 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 10:54:45 -0400 Subject: Offsite Backup In-Reply-To: <4E153929.6080105-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E153929.6080105@gmail.com> Message-ID: Have you used S3? On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Alex Volkov wrote: > ** > Amazon S3, it seems somewhat cheaper. > > > On 05/07/11 01:56 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Hello All, > can anyone recommend a good offsite backup solution? I was thinking about > rsync.net. Does anyone use their service? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 15:06:34 2011 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 11:06:34 -0400 Subject: Offsite Backup In-Reply-To: References: <4E153929.6080105@gmail.com> Message-ID: I use S3. RIght now I have close to 60Gb worth of backup over there and I pay $5 a month. Not bad at all. On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 10:54, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Have you used S3? > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Alex Volkov wrote: >> >> Amazon S3, it seems somewhat cheaper. >> >> On 05/07/11 01:56 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> >> Hello All, >> can anyone recommend a good offsite backup solution? I was thinking about >> rsync.net. Does anyone use their service? > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 15:33:43 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 11:33:43 -0400 Subject: Offsite Backup In-Reply-To: References: <4E153929.6080105@gmail.com> Message-ID: What are you using to get your files on S3 (s3cmd)? How long does it take to do a backup? On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Fabio FZero wrote: > I use S3. RIght now I have close to 60Gb worth of backup over there > and I pay $5 a month. Not bad at all. > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 10:54, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> Have you used S3? >> >> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Alex Volkov wrote: >>> >>> Amazon S3, it seems somewhat cheaper. >>> >>> On 05/07/11 01:56 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >>> >>> Hello All, >>> can anyone recommend a good offsite backup solution? I was thinking about >>> rsync.net. Does anyone use their service? >> >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 15:38:28 2011 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 11:38:28 -0400 Subject: Offsite Backup In-Reply-To: References: <4E153929.6080105@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm using s3cmd, yes. It takes a long time, but it's my ISP's fault actually. If I upload from the office it's ridiculously fast. - FZ On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:33, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > What are you using to get your files on S3 (s3cmd)? How long does it > take to do a backup? > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Fabio FZero wrote: >> I use S3. RIght now I have close to 60Gb worth of backup over there >> and I pay $5 a month. Not bad at all. >> >> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 10:54, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >>> Have you used S3? >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Alex Volkov wrote: >>>> >>>> Amazon S3, it seems somewhat cheaper. >>>> >>>> On 05/07/11 01:56 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> can anyone recommend a good offsite backup solution? I was thinking about >>>> rsync.net. Does anyone use their service? >>> >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Myles Braithwaite > http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 17:35:33 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 13:35:33 -0400 Subject: Offsite Backup In-Reply-To: References: <4E153929.6080105@gmail.com> Message-ID: Not completely seriously just for testing. But it seemed to work really well with fuse and s3fs under Ubuntu 10.04 Sent from my mobile device. On Jul 7, 2011 10:55 AM, "Ansar Mohammed" wrote: > Have you used S3? > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Alex Volkov wrote: > >> ** >> Amazon S3, it seems somewhat cheaper. >> >> >> On 05/07/11 01:56 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> >> Hello All, >> can anyone recommend a good offsite backup solution? I was thinking about >> rsync.net. Does anyone use their service? >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 15:02:52 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 11:02:52 -0400 Subject: "Fanboy" series - IPv6 and NATs - YouTube Message-ID: <4E171C1C.5000009@rogers.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v26BAlfWBm8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 19:33:42 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:33:42 -0400 Subject: Blu Ray Playback Message-ID: How is Blu Ray playback in Linux? Google shows posts from 6 months ago on Ubuntu forums that say there is some shenanigans to go through. What's the current state? -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 9 18:21:58 2011 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 14:21:58 -0400 Subject: Looking for Speakers or Topics [for July and Aug.] In-Reply-To: <4DFFE423.6000502-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4DFFE423.6000502@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E189C46.5070801@yahoo.ca> I would like to attend something on this. Martin On 11-06-20 08:21 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I could do something on Ham Radio. My setup is entirely Linux-based, > which is pretty rare for amateur radio. > > cheers, > Stewart / VA3PID > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 18:38:38 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 14:38:38 -0400 Subject: Looking for Speakers or Topics [for July and Aug.] In-Reply-To: <4E189C46.5070801-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4DFFE423.6000502@gmail.com> <4E189C46.5070801@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <4E19F1AE.9060406@gmail.com> On 11-07-09 14:21 , marthter wrote: > I would like to attend something on this. Sure thing, Martin. Just working on my outline now. Some of the very Linux-specific things about ham radio - like AX25 packet support in the kernel - are no longer widely used, since wireless* and mobile technology are more common now. I'll do a bit on the why and how of licensing, setting up a station, then focus on Linux applications for rig programming and control, digital modes and logging. I'd hoped to have my SDR to show, but it seems to be delayed Ham radio is such a wide topic with a complex culture that there are aspects that might totally float your boat that most other people won't have heard of. If anyone has something they want me to cover, let me know, and I'll see what I can dig up. Stewart *: which was the term my grandparents used for radio. They'd always turn on the radio a few minutes before the news through force of habit of letting the valves warm up ... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 12:33:31 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 08:33:31 -0400 Subject: Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 13 Jul 2011 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Unix Unanimous Webmaster Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 12:01 AM Subject: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 13 Jul 2011 To: u-u-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at 6:45 pm on Wednesday 13 July 2011, in room BA 2135 on the 2nd floor of the the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. George Street, on the University of Toronto campus. Unix Unanimous is an informal gathering of people interested in Unix and related topics. There are no fees or membership requirements, and the meeting is open to all. Participants typically include Unix professionals, students, and hobbyists. This message will be repeated on the Monday before the meeting. If there are any items for the agenda, email u-u-owner-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org before then. The meeting is always held on the second Wednesday of each month. Special Announcements: A mailing list has been set up for this announcement. If you wish to receive notification via email, go to the web page https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u/ in order to subscribe yourself. A map of the area can be found at http://unixunanimous.org where this message is repeated, and will always contain the correct location and time of the next meeting. _______________________________________________ u-u mailing list u-u-sb41XHKw7bdvuSlQZN9BUtrUbErFZevf at public.gmane.org https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 13:20:05 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:20:05 -0400 Subject: MythTV Talk. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I will be giving a talk on MythTV at the FreeGeek warehouse/office (http://freegeektoronto.org/about-us/location/ ) this Thursday starting at 6:30 PM. I would be delighted to see anyone interested in learning how to set-up a PVR with free software. Since space is somewhat limited, there is a sign-up process noted below: --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 14:03:04 -0400 From: Ushnish Sengupta Subject: [FGT-gen] Announcing MythTV Class Thursday July 14th 6:30 to ? ? ? ?9:30 pm - TO REGISTER EMAIL learn-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org To: General Discussions *What: MythTV (building your own Personal Video Recorder) When: Thursday July 14th Time: 6:30 to 9:30 pm Location : Free Geek Toronto (51 Vine Avenue) To register for this course, send an email to** **learn-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org* * **Subject Line: (the course you are registering for)** ** **Email Body: Your Name and telephone number* This is an "Advanced" class, and some experience with Linux is recommended. Not required if you are just attending the seminar, but recommended: Bring your own computer if you want to do an on site install. Suggested minimums for a MythTV install can be seen below. Class Description from the instructor Colin: I will be giving a talk on building a PVR (personal video recorder) using Mythbuntu (a version of Ubuntu Linux tailored to installing the MythTV program). The talk is free to attend, but you must book a space in advance. You are responsible for any hardware costs if you want your own PVR box. Also, if you want TV listings on-screen you will need an account with a non-profit firm called Schedules Direct, and they charge up to $20 (US) per year for their service. My plan is to do an overview of the current analog/digital TV situation in Canada and a look at free PVR software. Followed by a walk-through of installing Mythbuntu, and showing various on-line resources. Then offering as much help as I can regarding helping people get their own boxes up and running. I will have some spare copies of the Mythbuntu install CDs for anyone who would like to make copies, just bring blank CD-ROMs. All the software on the CD is licensed under the GNU Public License (and other free software licenses), which means that it can be copied (with some conditions) with the permission of the copyright holders. Alternatively anyone with a high speed Internet connection can download a copy of Mythbuntu from their website : mythbuntu.org The main MythTV website can be seen here: www.mythtv.org A locally focused look at MythTV can be seen here : gtalug.org/wiki/MythTV MythTV box suggested minimums: For analog only TV: - Pentium III, 750 MHz (or better) - 1 GB+ of RAM - nVidia graphics card (GeForce 5200 or better) - 1 (or more) Linux supported analog TV tuner card(s) - 40+ GB of hard disk space - Linux supported sound card, Linux supported Ethernet card, keyboard, mouse, monitor, and speakers.] For digital (with the option of analog) TV: - Pentium 4, 3.2 GHz (or better) - 1.5 GB+ of RAM - nVidia graphics card with VDPAU feature (some GeForce 8xxx cards and effectively all 9xxx or better cards) - 1 (or more) Linux supported digital (and/or analog) TV tuner(s) - 160+ GB of hard disk space - Linux supported sound card, Linux supported Ethernet card, keyboard, mouse, monitor, and speakers.] *To register for this course, send an email to** **learn-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW8Xa4x6EXUF0 at public.gmane.orgg * * **Subject Line: (the course you are registering for)** ** **Email Body: Your Name and telephone number* _______________________________________________ CyberEquality mailing list CyberEquality-u7HHAIDsblY+5oARPCpHkw at public.gmane.org https://masses.tao.ca/lists/listinfo/cyberequality End of CyberEquality Digest, Vol 24, Issue 5 ******************************************** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 12 02:12:43 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:12:43 -0400 Subject: python talks Message-ID: <4E1BAD9B.3090606@gmail.com> Hello everyone, I've got a couple of python talks from pycon 2010, 2011 and europython 2011. I'm going to take them to the meeting tomorrow. If anyone wants them, bring a portable hdd. Europython 2011 - 25G videos_5-years-of-bad-ideas.mp4 videos_advanced-pickling-with-stackless-python-and-spickle.mp4 videos_advanced-python.mp4 videos_api-design-lessons-learned.mp4 videos_art-subclassing.mp4 videos_beyond-python-enhanched-generators.mp4 videos_building-a-hosting-platform-with-python.mp4 videos_combining-embedded-and-interactive-python-in-a-debugger-a-case-study.mp4 videos_data-driven-cache-invalidation.mp4 videos_debugging-and-profiling-techniques.mp4 videos_dependency-injection-is-your-friend.mp4 videos_deploying-web-applications-to-the-cloud-with-python.mp4 videos_derivatives-analytics-with-python-numpy.mp4 videos_developing-desktop-and-mobile-apps-with-pyside-and-qml.mp4 videos_distributing-python-programs-through-pyinstaller.mp4 videos_django-productivity-tips-and-tricks.mp4 videos_django-rdflib-and-postgresql-the-best-of-both-worlds.mp4 videos_exploit-your-gpu-power-with-cuda-and-friends.mp4 videos_flow-based-programming-made-easy-with-pyf-20.mp4 videos_fun-pythons-newer-tools.mp4 videos_getting-ready-for-postgresql-91.mp4 videos_good-api-design.mp4 videos_hacking-pylongobject-on-python-32.mp4 videos_high-performance-computing-gamer-pcs.mp4 videos_how-make-your-web-apps-intelligent.mp4 videos_how-to-build-complex-web-applications-having-fun.mp4 videos_implementing-distributed-applications-using-zeromq-python-and-other-bad-guys.mp4 videos_interoperability-from-python-to-clojure-and-the-other-way-round.mp4 videos_introducing-django-rest-framework.mp4 videos_introduction-to-gevent.mp4 videos_introduction-to-python-database-programming.mp4 videos_introduction-to-qt.mp4 videos_its-the-message-stupid.mp4 videos_json-data-input-rml-template-pdf-report.mp4 videos_leveraging-an-instant-messaging-protocol-to-build-a-scalable-cloud-architecture.mp4 videos_making-cpython-fast-using-trace-based-optimisations.mp4 videos_managing-the-cloud-with-libcloud.mp4 videos_merengue-the-new-surprising-and-refreshing-django-based-cms.mp4 videos_mig-a-complete-grid-middleware-mostly-in-python.mp4 videos_objects-and-classes-in-python-and-javascript.mp4 videos_openerp-100-pythonic-way-business-management.mp4 videos_openstack-computes-automated-testing.mp4 videos_paver-the-build-tool-you-missed.mp4 videos_pitfalls-of-continuous-deployment.mp4 videos_playing-tasks-with-django-celery.mp4 videos_plpython-python-inside-the-postgresql-rdbms.mp4 videos_postgresql-the-database-sister-of-python.mp4 videos_precompiling-and-deploying-python-to-any-linux-or-freebsd-system.mp4 videos_pricing-products-using-network-graphs-and-sets.mp4 videos_pypy-in-production.mp4 videos_python-103-mmmm-understanding-pythons-memory-model-mutability-and-methods.mp4 videos_python-3-the-next-generation-is-here-already.mp4 videos_python-design-patterns.mp4 videos_python-mapreduce-programming-with-pydoop.mp4 videos_python-tips-tricks-and-idioms.mp4 videos_refactoring-pychart.mp4 videos_saving-gaia-with-jquery-mobile-and-geodjango.mp4 videos_scraping-techniques-to-extract-advertisements-from.mp4 videos_snakes-on-a-cloud-a-presentation-of-the-openstack-project.mp4 videos_social-network-analysis-in-python.mp4 videos_source-code-processing-with-python.mp4 videos_sqlkit-empowering-database-access.mp4 videos_sqlmap-security-developing-in-python.mp4 videos_the-development-process-of-python.mp4 videos_the-political-implications-of-having-fun-while-programming-open-source.mp4 videos_ubuntu-and-the-opportunistic-programming.mp4 videos_using-storm-to-work-with-sql-databases.mp4 videos_visual-interactive-programming-environment.mp4 videos_visualization-and-analysis-of-large-scale-datasets-with-python.mp4 videos_what-makes-python-so-awesome.mp4 Pycon 2010 & 2011 - 22G Pycon-154.ogv Pycon-206.ogv Pycon-415.flv Pycon-444.ogv Pycon-466.ogv Pycon-669.ogv Pycon-718.ogv Pycon-725.flv Pycon-797.ogv Pycon-813.ogv Pycon-816.ogv Pycon-883.ogv Pycon-886.ogv Pycon-931.flv Pycon-939.ogv Pycon-951.ogv Pycon-989.ogv Pycon-DjangoDeploymentWorkshop734.flv Pycon-PyCon2010InterfacesAdaptersAndFactories181657.ogv Pycon-PyCon2010IntroductionToUnittestAkaPyUnit96996.ogv Pycon-PyCon2010ManagingTheWorldsOldestDjangoProject80325.ogv Pycon-PyCon2010OptimalResourceAllocationUsingPython36659.ogv Pycon-PyCon2011AnIntroductionToTornado437.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011AnOpenSuccessForTheCloudOpenStack644.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011APIDesignAntipatterns304.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011APIDesignLessonsLearned164.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011BackupIsHardLetsGoShopping100.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011BestPracticesForImpossibleDeadlines540.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011ContinuousDeployment913.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011CouchDBAndPythonInPractice398.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011DeployingWebApplicationsToTheCloud1of2113.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011DeployingWebApplicationsToTheCloud2of2344.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011DisqusServing400MillionPeopleWithPython178.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011DjangoPitfallsIEncounteredAndHowToAvoidThem207.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011ExhibitionOfAtrocity139.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011ExtremeNetworkProgrammingWithPythonAndLinux291.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011FunWithPythonsNewerTools386.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011GeneticProgrammingInPython353.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011GettingTheJobTheDosAndDontsOfLandingAPython956.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011HandlingRidiculousAmountsOfDataWithProbabilisti358.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011HookboxAllPythonWebframeworksNowRealtimeBatteri862.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011HTTPInPythonWhichLibraryForWhatTask393.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011JavascriptForPeopleWhoKnowPython665.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011PanelPythonVMs318.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011Python3TheNextGenerationIsHereAlready574.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011RunningDjangoAppsOnGoogleAppEngine927.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011TestingWithMock964.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011UnitsNeedTestingToo472.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011UsefulNamespacesContextManagersAndDecorators841.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011UsingCoroutinesToCreateEfficientHighConcurrency913.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011UsingPython3ToBuildACloudComputingServiceFor309.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011UsingPythonToDebugCAndCCodeUsingGdb729.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011WhyIsPythonSlowAndHowPyPyCanHelp563.mp4 Pycon-PyCon2011ZODBAPythonPersistenceSystem261.mp4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 12 13:54:18 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 09:54:18 -0400 Subject: python talks In-Reply-To: <4E1BAD9B.3090606-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E1BAD9B.3090606@gmail.com> Message-ID: You can also watch the US PyCon (2009, 2010, 2011) on Blip.TV: . On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Alex Volkov wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I've got a couple of python talks from pycon 2010, 2011 and europython 2011. > I'm going to take them to the meeting tomorrow. If anyone wants them, bring > a portable hdd. > > Europython 2011 - 25G > > videos_5-years-of-bad-ideas.mp4 > videos_advanced-pickling-with-stackless-python-and-spickle.mp4 > videos_advanced-python.mp4 > videos_api-design-lessons-learned.mp4 > videos_art-subclassing.mp4 > videos_beyond-python-enhanched-generators.mp4 > videos_building-a-hosting-platform-with-python.mp4 > videos_combining-embedded-and-interactive-python-in-a-debugger-a-case-study.mp4 > videos_data-driven-cache-invalidation.mp4 > videos_debugging-and-profiling-techniques.mp4 > videos_dependency-injection-is-your-friend.mp4 > videos_deploying-web-applications-to-the-cloud-with-python.mp4 > videos_derivatives-analytics-with-python-numpy.mp4 > videos_developing-desktop-and-mobile-apps-with-pyside-and-qml.mp4 > videos_distributing-python-programs-through-pyinstaller.mp4 > videos_django-productivity-tips-and-tricks.mp4 > videos_django-rdflib-and-postgresql-the-best-of-both-worlds.mp4 > videos_exploit-your-gpu-power-with-cuda-and-friends.mp4 > videos_flow-based-programming-made-easy-with-pyf-20.mp4 > videos_fun-pythons-newer-tools.mp4 > videos_getting-ready-for-postgresql-91.mp4 > videos_good-api-design.mp4 > videos_hacking-pylongobject-on-python-32.mp4 > videos_high-performance-computing-gamer-pcs.mp4 > videos_how-make-your-web-apps-intelligent.mp4 > videos_how-to-build-complex-web-applications-having-fun.mp4 > videos_implementing-distributed-applications-using-zeromq-python-and-other-bad-guys.mp4 > videos_interoperability-from-python-to-clojure-and-the-other-way-round.mp4 > videos_introducing-django-rest-framework.mp4 > videos_introduction-to-gevent.mp4 > videos_introduction-to-python-database-programming.mp4 > videos_introduction-to-qt.mp4 > videos_its-the-message-stupid.mp4 > videos_json-data-input-rml-template-pdf-report.mp4 > videos_leveraging-an-instant-messaging-protocol-to-build-a-scalable-cloud-architecture.mp4 > videos_making-cpython-fast-using-trace-based-optimisations.mp4 > videos_managing-the-cloud-with-libcloud.mp4 > videos_merengue-the-new-surprising-and-refreshing-django-based-cms.mp4 > videos_mig-a-complete-grid-middleware-mostly-in-python.mp4 > videos_objects-and-classes-in-python-and-javascript.mp4 > videos_openerp-100-pythonic-way-business-management.mp4 > videos_openstack-computes-automated-testing.mp4 > videos_paver-the-build-tool-you-missed.mp4 > videos_pitfalls-of-continuous-deployment.mp4 > videos_playing-tasks-with-django-celery.mp4 > videos_plpython-python-inside-the-postgresql-rdbms.mp4 > videos_postgresql-the-database-sister-of-python.mp4 > videos_precompiling-and-deploying-python-to-any-linux-or-freebsd-system.mp4 > videos_pricing-products-using-network-graphs-and-sets.mp4 > videos_pypy-in-production.mp4 > videos_python-103-mmmm-understanding-pythons-memory-model-mutability-and-methods.mp4 > videos_python-3-the-next-generation-is-here-already.mp4 > videos_python-design-patterns.mp4 > videos_python-mapreduce-programming-with-pydoop.mp4 > videos_python-tips-tricks-and-idioms.mp4 > videos_refactoring-pychart.mp4 > videos_saving-gaia-with-jquery-mobile-and-geodjango.mp4 > videos_scraping-techniques-to-extract-advertisements-from.mp4 > videos_snakes-on-a-cloud-a-presentation-of-the-openstack-project.mp4 > videos_social-network-analysis-in-python.mp4 > videos_source-code-processing-with-python.mp4 > videos_sqlkit-empowering-database-access.mp4 > videos_sqlmap-security-developing-in-python.mp4 > videos_the-development-process-of-python.mp4 > videos_the-political-implications-of-having-fun-while-programming-open-source.mp4 > videos_ubuntu-and-the-opportunistic-programming.mp4 > videos_using-storm-to-work-with-sql-databases.mp4 > videos_visual-interactive-programming-environment.mp4 > videos_visualization-and-analysis-of-large-scale-datasets-with-python.mp4 > videos_what-makes-python-so-awesome.mp4 > > Pycon 2010 & 2011 - 22G > > Pycon-154.ogv > Pycon-206.ogv > Pycon-415.flv > Pycon-444.ogv > Pycon-466.ogv > Pycon-669.ogv > Pycon-718.ogv > Pycon-725.flv > Pycon-797.ogv > Pycon-813.ogv > Pycon-816.ogv > Pycon-883.ogv > Pycon-886.ogv > Pycon-931.flv > Pycon-939.ogv > Pycon-951.ogv > Pycon-989.ogv > Pycon-DjangoDeploymentWorkshop734.flv > Pycon-PyCon2010InterfacesAdaptersAndFactories181657.ogv > Pycon-PyCon2010IntroductionToUnittestAkaPyUnit96996.ogv > Pycon-PyCon2010ManagingTheWorldsOldestDjangoProject80325.ogv > Pycon-PyCon2010OptimalResourceAllocationUsingPython36659.ogv > Pycon-PyCon2011AnIntroductionToTornado437.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011AnOpenSuccessForTheCloudOpenStack644.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011APIDesignAntipatterns304.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011APIDesignLessonsLearned164.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011BackupIsHardLetsGoShopping100.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011BestPracticesForImpossibleDeadlines540.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011ContinuousDeployment913.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011CouchDBAndPythonInPractice398.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011DeployingWebApplicationsToTheCloud1of2113.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011DeployingWebApplicationsToTheCloud2of2344.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011DisqusServing400MillionPeopleWithPython178.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011DjangoPitfallsIEncounteredAndHowToAvoidThem207.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011ExhibitionOfAtrocity139.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011ExtremeNetworkProgrammingWithPythonAndLinux291.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011FunWithPythonsNewerTools386.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011GeneticProgrammingInPython353.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011GettingTheJobTheDosAndDontsOfLandingAPython956.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011HandlingRidiculousAmountsOfDataWithProbabilisti358.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011HookboxAllPythonWebframeworksNowRealtimeBatteri862.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011HTTPInPythonWhichLibraryForWhatTask393.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011JavascriptForPeopleWhoKnowPython665.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011PanelPythonVMs318.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011Python3TheNextGenerationIsHereAlready574.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011RunningDjangoAppsOnGoogleAppEngine927.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011TestingWithMock964.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011UnitsNeedTestingToo472.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011UsefulNamespacesContextManagersAndDecorators841.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011UsingCoroutinesToCreateEfficientHighConcurrency913.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011UsingPython3ToBuildACloudComputingServiceFor309.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011UsingPythonToDebugCAndCCodeUsingGdb729.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011WhyIsPythonSlowAndHowPyPyCanHelp563.mp4 > Pycon-PyCon2011ZODBAPythonPersistenceSystem261.mp4 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 13 17:20:20 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:20:20 -0400 Subject: Talk about talks Message-ID: A couple of ideas for talks came up last night... There was quite a bit of interest in distributed filesystems. There seem to be two directions this could go, both legitimate: i) Clustered filesystems, like GFS / OCFS2 Much as with clustering as a general topic, questions that emerge include: - So what? - Why would I want this in the first place? Isn't NFS fine? - What would cause me to prefer GFS over OCFS2 or vice-versa? - What other options are there? - What would cause me to head back to local filesystems or NFS? ii) Distributed filesystems - Why would I want this in the first place? Isn't NFS fine? - Why would I prefer 9p? Or AFS? Or InterMezzo? - What aspects of these will make me prefer to poke burning needles in my eyes, and run back, crying, to NFS? - What about NFSv4? Something that struck me as interesting would be for Drew (perhaps along with Myles) to do a talk that might be entitled, "GTALUG Infrastructure: Keeping a free software based system running for 10 years." -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 13 17:25:31 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:25:31 -0400 Subject: Talk about talks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > A couple of ideas for talks came up last night... There was another that just came back to me... Scrum management. If there's someone that has gone thru certification and/or is managing scrums, that would be of interest. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 13 17:40:53 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:40:53 -0400 Subject: Talk about talks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E1DD8A5.40901@alteeve.com> On 07/13/2011 01:20 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > A couple of ideas for talks came up last night... > > There was quite a bit of interest in distributed filesystems. > > There seem to be two directions this could go, both legitimate: > > i) Clustered filesystems, like GFS / OCFS2 > > Much as with clustering as a general topic, questions that emerge include: > - So what? > - Why would I want this in the first place? Isn't NFS fine? NFS does not offer real-time replication of the data across systems. Lose the NFS host, lose the data. > - What would cause me to prefer GFS over OCFS2 or vice-versa? GFS2 and OCFS2 are, generally speaking, relatively equal. Personally, I don't trust Oracle with a salt shaker, never mind my files, so I used GFS2. > - What other options are there? In the realm of clustered filesystems, that's about it in the open source world (at least in so far as anything production-ready). Remember to keep replicated/distributed/clustered block devices separate from clustered filesystems! > - What would cause me to head back to local filesystems or NFS? NFS doesn't require a cluster, thus, is a simpler (and more limited) solution. > ii) Distributed filesystems > - Why would I want this in the first place? Isn't NFS fine? See above; NFS is not inherently real-time replicated. You can put it on DRBD or a SAN, but if you've gone that far, you're just a step or two away from a clustered filesystem anyway. > - Why would I prefer 9p? Or AFS? Or InterMezzo? > - What aspects of these will make me prefer to poke burning needles in > my eyes, and run back, crying, to NFS? Trying to build a cluster without a working, tested fence device. > - What about NFSv4? Cheers -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "I feel confined, only free to expand myself within boundaries." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 13 18:00:47 2011 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 14:00:47 -0400 Subject: Talk about talks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm absolutely interested in hearing more about Distributed Filesystems. I've been working with MooseFS (http://www.moosefs.org/) in a testing environment with the plan being to deploy it live in the next month or so. I'm not 100% certain that it's the best solution, as our current solution stores ~2 million small files, but we plan to eventually move larger files there as well. I'd love to hear other peoples' experiences with distributed filesystems vs NFS solutions. -jason On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > A couple of ideas for talks came up last night... > > There was quite a bit of interest in distributed filesystems. > > There seem to be two directions this could go, both legitimate: > > i) Clustered filesystems, like GFS / OCFS2 > > Much as with clustering as a general topic, questions that emerge include: > - So what? > - Why would I want this in the first place? Isn't NFS fine? > - What would cause me to prefer GFS over OCFS2 or vice-versa? > - What other options are there? > - What would cause me to head back to local filesystems or NFS? > > ii) Distributed filesystems > - Why would I want this in the first place? Isn't NFS fine? > - Why would I prefer 9p? Or AFS? Or InterMezzo? > - What aspects of these will make me prefer to poke burning needles in > my eyes, and run back, crying, to NFS? > - What about NFSv4? > > Something that struck me as interesting would be for Drew (perhaps > along with Myles) to do a talk that might be entitled, "GTALUG > Infrastructure: Keeping a free software based system running for 10 > years." > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 13 18:09:10 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 14:09:10 -0400 Subject: Talk about talks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E1DDF46.4080306@utoronto.ca> On 07/13/2011 02:00 PM, Jason Shaw wrote: > I'm absolutely interested in hearing more about Distributed Filesystems. > I've been working with MooseFS (http://www.moosefs.org/) in a testing > environment with the plan being to deploy it live in the next month or so. > I'm not 100% certain that it's the best solution, as our current solution > stores ~2 million small files, but we plan to eventually move larger files > there as well. I'm particularly interested in Lustre. Just unsure how the Oracle takeover is going to affect its development and availability. Though so far they've been playing nice on the OCFS2 front, so maybe it isn't all bad. Anyone used/tested it? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 13 19:33:23 2011 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:33:23 -0400 Subject: what is the best way to find local IP address/hostname from inside C program? Message-ID: <201107131533.24843.icanprogram@295.ca> I was revisiting some really old code in my SIMPL project recently. This logic helps determine whether or not a requested communication channel is opened locally via shared memory or remotely via TCP/IP surrogates. Although the code isn't written this cleanly, essentially the functionality required can be captured in a function something like: int isThisMe(char *mynode) where the mynode string can either be a dotted text respresentation of an IP address or a straight node name. ie. we return a 1 when the mynode matches the node info for the node on which the call is being made, or a 0 if there is no match. . Does anyone know the best practice for making this kind of determination these days? I can't recall the issues when this code was created in the 1999-2000 time frame. For example I don't recall why the gethostname() function was not used for part of the algorithm but instead the algorithm relies on a getenv("HOSTNAME") or parsing of /etc/hostname to get the local host name and the a gethostbyname() to generate an IPaddress representing this node. On another interesting sidebar, during my recent testing on several of the Linux systems I have access to the call: getenv("HOSTNAME") will return NULL even though echo $HOSTNAME from a shell returns a valid name. Any ideas why this no longer works in modern Linux distributions? Is there a special check inside the getenv code to bypass HOSTNAME? Thanks in advance for your help. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 14 01:17:01 2011 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 21:17:01 -0400 Subject: Talk about talks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110714011700.GL986@adb.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > A couple of ideas for talks came up last night... > > There was quite a bit of interest in distributed filesystems. > > There seem to be two directions this could go, both legitimate: > > i) Clustered filesystems, like GFS / OCFS2 > > Much as with clustering as a general topic, questions that emerge include: > - So what? > - Why would I want this in the first place? Isn't NFS fine? > - What would cause me to prefer GFS over OCFS2 or vice-versa? > - What other options are there? > - What would cause me to head back to local filesystems or NFS? > > ii) Distributed filesystems > - Why would I want this in the first place? Isn't NFS fine? > - Why would I prefer 9p? Or AFS? Or InterMezzo? > - What aspects of these will make me prefer to poke burning needles in > my eyes, and run back, crying, to NFS? > - What about NFSv4? Okay, that's five times you mention NFS there. NFS has its place. It can be a useful protocol, either within a group or cluster of machines, or as the product you're trying to export to eg. workstation users. I've done solutions that involved boxes receiving email and parking it in user maildirs in shared storage, so that another box could allow the user to access it (POP, IMAP, etc) and later delete it. NFS works nicely if a bunch of boxes want to read and write the same filesystem, especially so if you can dodge locking issues. However, if you're depending on it from the client level above it, you want sufficiently reliable NFS servers, and high-availability clustering techniques like Madison and the rest of us discussed last night may well be what provides that. (I should also note in passing that I've also done high-availability mail with two boxes doing very frequent Unison runs to keep their maildir trees and user configs in sync.) Anyway, further discussion of clustered and/or distributed filesystems would be a topic of interest to me. I'm not sure if I'll be able to make TLUG meetings in the fall, though. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 14 15:11:00 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 11:11:00 -0400 Subject: what is the best way to find local IP address/hostname from inside C program? In-Reply-To: <201107131533.24843.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <201107131533.24843.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <20110714151100.GP7146@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 03:33:23PM -0400, bob 295 wrote: > I was revisiting some really old code in my SIMPL project recently. This > logic helps determine whether or not a requested communication channel is > opened locally via shared memory or remotely via TCP/IP surrogates. > > Although the code isn't written this cleanly, essentially the functionality > required can be captured in a function something like: > > int isThisMe(char *mynode) > > where the mynode string can either be a dotted text respresentation of an IP > address or a straight node name. ie. we return a 1 when the mynode matches > the node info for the node on which the call is being made, or a 0 if there > is no match. . > > Does anyone know the best practice for making this kind of determination these > days? > > I can't recall the issues when this code was created in the 1999-2000 time > frame. For example I don't recall why the gethostname() function was not > used for part of the algorithm but instead the algorithm relies on a > getenv("HOSTNAME") or parsing of /etc/hostname to get the local host name and > the a gethostbyname() to generate an IPaddress representing this node. > > On another interesting sidebar, during my recent testing on several of the > Linux systems I have access to the call: > > getenv("HOSTNAME") > > will return NULL even though > > echo $HOSTNAME > > from a shell returns a valid name. Any ideas why this no longer works in > modern Linux distributions? Is there a special check inside the getenv code > to bypass HOSTNAME? > > Thanks in advance for your help. There is no requirement for a system to have it's hostname map to an IP. It's not and usually done, but not required. I suspect if you check the source and destination of the socket, if they are the same, then it is you, otherwise it is someone else in most cases. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 15 02:15:56 2011 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:15:56 +1000 (EST) Subject: Talk about talks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jul 2011, Christopher Browne wrote: > i) Clustered filesystems, like GFS / OCFS2 > > Much as with clustering as a general topic, questions that emerge include: > - So what? > - Why would I want this in the first place? Isn't NFS fine? Oh this one's easy. You've realised you have too much free time and need to spend more time debugging inane filesystem problems. Seriously, cluster filesystems are often not the right answer. You pay a price for using them (performance, perhaps stability). There's a long list of sysadmins who used to use clustering filesystems. Yeah I know you were raising points for the talk not for a discussion now but this is a LUG list so I couldn't help myself :) > - What other options are there? Something like HADOOP/HDFS that stores data in multiple locations _may_ be a better option in many cases. > - What would cause me to head back to local filesystems or NFS? A desire for peace and quiet ;) > ii) Distributed filesystems > - Why would I want this in the first place? Isn't NFS fine? > - Why would I prefer 9p? Or AFS? Or InterMezzo? 9p is cool. I wish Plan 9/Inferno was more popular. > Something that struck me as interesting would be for Drew (perhaps > along with Myles) to do a talk that might be entitled, "GTALUG > Infrastructure: Keeping a free software based system running for 10 > years." Nice. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Contributing member of Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 15 05:27:03 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 01:27:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: possible router platforms Message-ID: If you want to roll your own router (eg. run pfsense, or Linux with your own setup), it is handy to have more "guts" than a reflashed wireless router. This Supermicro Atom system seems interesting. Best part: two gig ethernet interfaces. Not really cheap: $279.99 for a "barebones" server. 1u, shallow. =========================== These Jetway daughter cards add 3 ethernets to certain Jetway motherboards (for a total of 4 ports). Too bad that they seem to be in poor distribution here. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 15 11:24:54 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:24:54 -0400 Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E202386.4010100@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > If you want to roll your own router (eg. run pfsense, or Linux with your > own setup), it is handy to have more "guts" than a reflashed wireless > router. > I've used "refurb" computers for my router/firewalls. My current one is an old Compaq P3 running openSUSE 11.3. It also runs a DHCP server, DNSMasq, VPN and a 6in4 tunnel for IPv6. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew.henriquez-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 15 15:11:06 2011 From: andrew.henriquez-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrew Henriquez) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 11:11:06 -0400 Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: <4E202386.4010100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E202386.4010100@rogers.com> Message-ID: sweet On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 7:24 AM, James Knott wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> If you want to roll your own router (eg. run pfsense, or Linux with your >> own setup), it is handy to have more "guts" than a reflashed wireless >> router. >> >> > > I've used "refurb" computers for my router/firewalls. My current one is an > old Compaq P3 running openSUSE 11.3. It also runs a DHCP server, DNSMasq, > VPN and a 6in4 tunnel for IPv6. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 15 16:04:35 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: <4E202386.4010100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E202386.4010100@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | I've used "refurb" computers for my router/firewalls. Me too. I use Compaq PII 350 SFF boxes built like tanks. Worked for the better part of a decade for me (replacing Pentium 100 boxes). Summer weather reminds me why that may be suboptimal. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 15 16:09:10 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:09:10 -0400 Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: References: <4E202386.4010100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4E206626.2090507@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Summer weather reminds me why that may be suboptimal. Yep. I also have an IBM Netfinity server that makes an excellent space heater. I only turn it on when I want to do something with it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 15 16:20:53 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:20:53 -0400 Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110715162053.GQ7146@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 01:27:03AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > If you want to roll your own router (eg. run pfsense, or Linux with your > own setup), it is handy to have more "guts" than a reflashed wireless > router. > > This Supermicro Atom system seems interesting. Best part: two gig > ethernet interfaces. And most likely not enough CPU to use even one. But enough for more than 100Mbit, so gigabit it is. :) > Not really cheap: $279.99 for a "barebones" server. > 1u, shallow. > > > > =========================== > > These Jetway daughter cards add 3 ethernets to certain Jetway motherboards > (for a total of 4 ports). Too bad that they seem to be in poor > distribution here. > > -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 15 16:39:01 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 12:39:01 -0400 Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: <20110715162053.GQ7146-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110715162053.GQ7146@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E206D25.2060306@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> This Supermicro Atom system seems interesting. Best part: two gig >> > ethernet interfaces. >> > And most likely not enough CPU to use even one. But enough for more > than 100Mbit, so gigabit it is.:) > > How many people have an internet connection that's better than 100 Mb/s? I expect many could get by with a 10 Mb NIC. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 15 17:13:24 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 13:13:24 -0400 Subject: possible router platforms Message-ID: I too use old p3 Compaq with 384 megs of ram and root filesystem on Compaq flash. Since you can get an old PC with three PCI cards and for thirty bucks I don't see a point of using server grade hardware plus small fans are increadibly noisy and you will probably be restricted to low profile cards only -- which is a bitch. Also I have a particular disdain for pfsense as there seems to be little development for it, it doesn't support IPV6 and you mostly restricted to the software they expect you to use, you can install some of the things from freebsd report but it too much work for what it supposed to be. So I use debian with several network cards and one wireless that runs 802.11 by, plus I have an old and failing hard drive for torrenting. Also if you want to go completely off the hinge you can get a couple of sun 100 mbit quad port cards or a dual Intel Gigabit for about thirty dollars on eBay. Sent from my mobile device. On Jul 15, 2011 1:27 AM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > If you want to roll your own router (eg. run pfsense, or Linux with your > own setup), it is handy to have more "guts" than a reflashed wireless > router. > > This Supermicro Atom system seems interesting. Best part: two gig > ethernet interfaces. > > Not really cheap: $279.99 for a "barebones" server. > 1u, shallow. > > > > =========================== > > These Jetway daughter cards add 3 ethernets to certain Jetway motherboards > (for a total of 4 ports). Too bad that they seem to be in poor > distribution here. > < http://www.jetway.com.tw/jw/ipcboard_view.asp?productid=174&proname=AD3RTLANG-LF > > < http://www.jetway.com.tw/jw/ipcboard_view.asp?productid=683&proname=AD3INLANG-LF > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 16 00:20:34 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 20:20:34 -0400 Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: <4E206D25.2060306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110715162053.GQ7146@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E206D25.2060306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110716002034.GA21778@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:39:01PM -0400, James Knott wrote > How many people have an internet connection that's better than 100 > Mb/s? I expect many could get by with a 10 Mb NIC. If you only have one computer, yes. But if you have more than one machine, and want to transfer files between them, a gigabit connection is nice. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 16 01:33:26 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 21:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: <20110716002034.GA21778-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110715162053.GQ7146@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E206D25.2060306@rogers.com> <20110716002034.GA21778@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:39:01PM -0400, James Knott wrote | | > How many people have an internet connection that's better than 100 | > Mb/s? I expect many could get by with a 10 Mb NIC. | | If you only have one computer, yes. But if you have more than one | machine, and want to transfer files between them, a gigabit connection | is nice. At least in my case, James has a point. I have two "outward facing" connections. They are consumer broadband so neither actually challenges 100Mb/s. Transfers within a network don't require the router to touch them. I also have a spare Acer Revo -- one 1Gb/s interface. I don't know how well it could drive a USB 2.0 ethernet interface. If it was efficient and effective, I could use those interfaces for facing outward. (Lennart has pointed out that USB is fairly high overhead. I should measure what the Revo can handle throug a USB ethernet interface.) At the moment, I have three internal networks. One is wireless so it doesn't count. The others should be 1Gb/s. I might add more networks. Currently, each outward facing connection has a separate router. It seemed to make the configuring simpler and the redundancy made the system a little more robust. I'd like to do this with one router. I rarely need to do gigabit transfers between my networks (i.e. with a router in the middle). I don't imagine that 802.11n pushes 100Mb/s very often. One work-around that I've considered is to gang a PC (like the Revo) with a cheap commodity wireless router. Use the PC's 1Gb/s interface to carry a bundle of VLANs that get demultiplexed by the hacked wireless router. I think that at least some wireless routers can do that demultiplexing in hardware (as opposed to firmware which would likely be too slow). But I haven't tried this. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 16 04:37:56 2011 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 14:37:56 +1000 (EST) Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Jul 2011, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > This Supermicro Atom system seems interesting. Best part: two gig > ethernet interfaces. > > Not really cheap: $279.99 for a "barebones" server. > 1u, shallow. I used my ShivaPlug as a router/firewall for a couple of years until the SSD card died (not a problem with the Shiva itself of course). It worked really well for typical Rogers home connection with the NIC on the local lan and a USB-RJ45 connecter for the world. Low low power requirements. It was running Debian 5.0 FWIW. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Contributing member of Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 16 19:04:52 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:04:52 -0400 Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: <20110716002034.GA21778-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110715162053.GQ7146@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E206D25.2060306@rogers.com> <20110716002034.GA21778@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4E21E0D4.8090402@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:39:01PM -0400, James Knott wrote > > >> How many people have an internet connection that's better than 100 >> Mb/s? I expect many could get by with a 10 Mb NIC. >> > If you only have one computer, yes. But if you have more than one > machine, and want to transfer files between them, a gigabit connection > is nice. > > Then you'd need Gb NICs on those computers. The NIC on the router is irrelevant for local traffic. It's only when you connect to the internet or another network that you'd pass through the router. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 17 04:13:20 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 00:13:20 -0400 Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: <4E21E0D4.8090402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110715162053.GQ7146@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E206D25.2060306@rogers.com> <20110716002034.GA21778@waltdnes.org> <4E21E0D4.8090402@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110717041320.GA22787@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 03:04:52PM -0400, James Knott wrote > Walter Dnes wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:39:01PM -0400, James Knott wrote > > > > > >> How many people have an internet connection that's better than 100 > >> Mb/s? I expect many could get by with a 10 Mb NIC. > >> > > If you only have one computer, yes. But if you have more than one > > machine, and want to transfer files between them, a gigabit connection > > is nice. > > > > > > Then you'd need Gb NICs on those computers. The NIC on the router is > irrelevant for local traffic. It's only when you connect to the > internet or another network that you'd pass through the router. I have only 1 router/modem, with 3 machines behind it. In addition to NATing my internet connection, the router/modem also handles traffic between my machines... _____________ ___ | machine A |- |R| ------------- \ |O| _____________ ---|U| internet | machine B |-----|T|==========> ------------- ___|E| _____________ / |R| | machine C |- --- ------------- Connecting to the internet uses the same cat5 cable and jacks and NIC as connecting to one of the other machines behind the router. What am I missing? Is there really an money saved by having 1 Gbit connections locally and 10 or 100 megabits on the internet side? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 17 12:53:42 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 08:53:42 -0400 Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: <20110717041320.GA22787-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110715162053.GQ7146@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E206D25.2060306@rogers.com> <20110716002034.GA21778@waltdnes.org> <4E21E0D4.8090402@rogers.com> <20110717041320.GA22787@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4E22DB56.6060707@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 03:04:52PM -0400, James Knott wrote > >> Walter Dnes wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:39:01PM -0400, James Knott wrote >>> >>> >>> >>>> How many people have an internet connection that's better than 100 >>>> Mb/s? I expect many could get by with a 10 Mb NIC. >>>> >>>> >>> If you only have one computer, yes. But if you have more than one >>> machine, and want to transfer files between them, a gigabit connection >>> is nice. >>> >>> >>> >> Then you'd need Gb NICs on those computers. The NIC on the router is >> irrelevant for local traffic. It's only when you connect to the >> internet or another network that you'd pass through the router. >> > I have only 1 router/modem, with 3 machines behind it. In addition to > NATing my internet connection, the router/modem also handles traffic > between my machines... > > _____________ ___ > | machine A |- |R| > ------------- \ |O| > _____________ ---|U| internet > | machine B |-----|T|==========> > ------------- ___|E| > _____________ / |R| > | machine C |- --- > ------------- > > Connecting to the internet uses the same cat5 cable and jacks and NIC > as connecting to one of the other machines behind the router. What am I > missing? Is there really an money saved by having 1 Gbit connections > locally and 10 or 100 megabits on the internet side? > > What you're missing is that most consumer routers have a built in 4 port Ethernet switch, which must be able to pass the desired bandwidth for local traffic. Behind that switch is the actual router. In the situation where you're using a computer for a router, as I do, the switch and router are separate boxes. The computer will have at least 2 Ethernet ports, one for the local network via the switch and one for the Internet connection. Since only traffic for the Internet passess through the router, it doesn't need NICs that are faster than the Internet connection. The computer mentioned in the original post had 2 Ethernet ports and would require a separate switch to connect more than one computer to the Internet. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 17 13:04:15 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 09:04:15 -0400 Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: <20110717041320.GA22787-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110715162053.GQ7146@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E206D25.2060306@rogers.com> <20110716002034.GA21778@waltdnes.org> <4E21E0D4.8090402@rogers.com> <20110717041320.GA22787@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4E22DDCF.1030504@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > Is there really an money saved by having 1 Gbit connections > locally and 10 or 100 megabits on the internet side? > With the cost of NICs these days, there's not much to be saved when buying new, if you can even find lower speed NICs. However, if you have a separate router, there's no need to replace older 100 Mb NICs with Gb, as it will make no difference to your Internet connections. For internal traffic, you can also upgrade NICs gradually, as the Ethernet switch (assuming it's capable of 1Gb) will handle the difference between Gb, 100 Mb and even 10 Mb devices. On my own home network, most devices have 100 Mb NIC. Only my main computer and one notebook can do 1 Gb. At the moment, my switch can only do 100 Mb, so that's the speed everything connects with. If I were to replace my switch with one capable of 1 Gb, then those two computers could communicate at 1 Gb and everything else, 100 Mb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 18 14:36:11 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 10:36:11 -0400 Subject: possible router platforms In-Reply-To: References: <20110715162053.GQ7146@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E206D25.2060306@rogers.com> <20110716002034.GA21778@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110718143611.GR7146@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 09:33:26PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > At least in my case, James has a point. I have two "outward facing" > connections. They are consumer broadband so neither actually > challenges 100Mb/s. > > Transfers within a network don't require the router to touch them. > > I also have a spare Acer Revo -- one 1Gb/s interface. I don't know > how well it could drive a USB 2.0 ethernet interface. If it was > efficient and effective, I could use those interfaces for facing > outward. (Lennart has pointed out that USB is fairly high overhead. > I should measure what the Revo can handle throug a USB ethernet > interface.) > > At the moment, I have three internal networks. One is wireless so it > doesn't count. The others should be 1Gb/s. I might add more > networks. > > Currently, each outward facing connection has a separate router. It > seemed to make the configuring simpler and the redundancy made the > system a little more robust. I'd like to do this with one router. > > I rarely need to do gigabit transfers between my networks (i.e. with a > router in the middle). I don't imagine that 802.11n pushes 100Mb/s > very often. On a 5GHz band I regularly pass 100Mbit/s throughput. I don't think I have ever passed 200Mbit/s though, so 100 wouldn't be much if a noticeable limiter. > One work-around that I've considered is to gang a PC (like the Revo) > with a cheap commodity wireless router. Use the PC's 1Gb/s interface > to carry a bundle of VLANs that get demultiplexed by the hacked > wireless router. I think that at least some wireless routers can do > that demultiplexing in hardware (as opposed to firmware which would > likely be too slow). But I haven't tried this. Certainly some can do it. Perfectly reasonable way to set things up. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 18 16:19:22 2011 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 12:19:22 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linuxfest Request for Presentation Proposals Message-ID: The Free Software and Open Source Symposium (FSOSS) / Toronto Linuxfest will take place October 27-29th, 2011 at the Seneca at York Campus. They are now accepting proposals for presentations (50 minutes) and workshops (90 minutes): http://fsoss.senecac.on.ca/2011/PresentationProposal Deadline for first round of submissions is July 25, 2011. -- (\__/) -- Daniel (=.= ) -- http://circuidipity.com (")_(") -- http://identi.ca/dwa -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 19 14:40:26 2011 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 10:40:26 -0400 Subject: Is it ok to post a job offer? I need a PHP dev Message-ID: Here we go: This position is a hands-on role. The PHP/Joomla Developer must be a team player and have strong web application skills, good troubleshooting and self-starting qualities with minimal supervision. He/she will work with other team members to work on new projects and support back-end and middle-tier and other batch applications in large and complex, transaction-heavy environments. Answers in PVT please. -- Renata Rocha http://renata.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 19 15:20:14 2011 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:20:14 -0400 Subject: Is it ok to post a job offer? I need a PHP dev In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: too late, if it isn't okay :) I think it's okay, though. --matt On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Renata Rocha wrote: > Here we go: > > This position is a hands-on role. The PHP/Joomla Developer must be a > team player and have strong web application skills, good > troubleshooting and self-starting qualities with minimal supervision. > He/she will work with other team members to work on new projects and > support back-end and middle-tier and other batch applications in large > and complex, transaction-heavy environments. > > Answers in PVT please. > > -- > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- G. Matthew Rice ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? gpg id: EF9AAD20 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 20 05:17:06 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 01:17:06 -0400 Subject: Is it ok to post a job offer? I need a PHP dev In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E2664D2.8090202@gmail.com> On 11-07-19 11:20 AM, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > too late, if it isn't okay :) > > I think it's okay, though. > > --matt you got to love it when someone asks for permission but does it first =) > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Renata Rocha wrote: >> Here we go: >> >> This position is a hands-on role. The PHP/Joomla Developer must be a >> team player and have strong web application skills, good >> troubleshooting and self-starting qualities with minimal supervision. >> He/she will work with other team members to work on new projects and >> support back-end and middle-tier and other batch applications in large >> and complex, transaction-heavy environments. >> >> Answers in PVT please. >> >> -- >> Renata Rocha >> http://renata.org >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 20 11:51:16 2011 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 07:51:16 -0400 Subject: Is it ok to post a job offer? I need a PHP dev In-Reply-To: <4E2664D2.8090202-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E2664D2.8090202@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > On 11-07-19 11:20 AM, G. Matthew Rice wrote: >> too late, if ?it isn't okay :) >> I think it's okay, though. > > you got to love it when someone asks for permission but does it first =) We all should, no? It was in IT that I learned the phrase, "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission." Regards, -- G. Matthew Rice ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? gpg id: EF9AAD20 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 22 02:25:56 2011 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 22:25:56 -0400 Subject: Looking for a web based file/document manager script/program. Message-ID: <4E28DFB4.8000802@alteeve.com> I'm looking for a Perl/Python or PHP script for a service site to allow clients to send files to there space, have the files downloaded by the service to be worked on. Then re-uploaded to the Client space for the clients to retrieve. All through the web server/browser. Of course the Clients can't access each others file spaces. There may be a need for a client boss account to look at there sub accounts, but still not others. Has anyone used something like this? Have suggestions? I know I could write something up, but it would take time and there is the whole reinventing the wheel thing. :) Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 22 02:48:49 2011 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 12:48:49 +1000 Subject: Looking for a web based file/document manager script/program. In-Reply-To: <4E28DFB4.8000802-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E28DFB4.8000802@alteeve.com> Message-ID: surely there is a wordpress/joomla/drupal module for that? On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > I'm looking for a Perl/Python or PHP script for a service site to allow > clients to send files to there space, have the files downloaded by the > service to be worked on. Then re-uploaded to the Client space for the > clients to retrieve. > > All through the web server/browser. > > Of course the Clients can't access each others file spaces. > > There may be a need for a client boss account to look at there sub > accounts, but still not others. > > Has anyone used something like this? > Have suggestions? > > I know I could write something up, but it would take time and there is the > whole reinventing the wheel thing. :) > > Lance F. Squire > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 22 02:55:11 2011 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 22:55:11 -0400 Subject: Looking for a web based file/document manager script/program. In-Reply-To: References: <4E28DFB4.8000802@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4E28E68F.8050703@alteeve.com> Timothy Hildred wrote: > surely there is a wordpress/joomla/drupal module for that? > You missed Django... None of those is known to be on the server, and the site is otherwise quite simple. Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From efmccurdy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 22 13:40:22 2011 From: efmccurdy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ed F. McCurdy) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:40:22 -0400 Subject: Looking for a web based file/document manager script/program. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 21 Jul 2011 22:25:56 EDT." <4E28DFB4.8000802-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E28DFB4.8000802@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <10874.1311342022@lowell> Zope or Plone can provide file storage via web forms or WebDAV with user or role based access control out of the box. http://www.zope.org/the-world-of-zope Regards, Ed -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 22 13:56:16 2011 From: alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:56:16 -0300 Subject: Looking for a web based file/document manager script/program. In-Reply-To: <4E28DFB4.8000802-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E28DFB4.8000802@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Hi, Take a look at http://extplorer.sourceforge.net/ Best Regards Alexandre Alencar Twitter @alexandreitpro http://blog.alexandrealencar.net/ http://www.alexandrealencar.net/ http://www.alexandrealencar.com http://www.servicosdeti.com.br/ COBIT, ITIL, CSM, LPI, MCP-I On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:25 PM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > I'm looking for a Perl/Python or PHP script for a service site to allow > clients to send files to there space, have the files downloaded by the > service to be worked on. Then re-uploaded to the Client space for the > clients to retrieve. > > All through the web server/browser. > > Of course the Clients can't access each others file spaces. > > There may be a need for a client boss account to look at there sub > accounts, but still not others. > > Has anyone used something like this? > Have suggestions? > > I know I could write something up, but it would take time and there is the > whole reinventing the wheel thing. :) > > Lance F. Squire > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 23 16:22:30 2011 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:22:30 -0400 Subject: Looking for a web based file/document manager script/program. In-Reply-To: References: <4E28DFB4.8000802@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4E2AF546.1080508@alteeve.com> Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar wrote: > Hi, > > Take a look at http://extplorer.sourceforge.net/ > > Best Regards > Perfect! That is Exactly what I was looking for. :) I was looking at the other options, but they all seemed to be swatting a fly with a mac truck. Out of the other options Zope3/Grok looked interesting, but some goggling suggested that Django would be about the same, and I'm already familiar with that. Either way, all those options would have taken time to re-implement the site in templates and code before even seeing if the file/document features would have worked. (All on my test bed of course.) However, this solution had already been tested, shown, approved and implemented. :) Much Thanks, Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 24 14:28:13 2011 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 14:28:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: About voice recording Message-ID: Hi, For voice recording, instead of the specialized voice recorder, I'm wondering what else have you been using and how good it is to record sounds at least 2 meters away. Especially, nowadays, many smart cell phone (ie iphone) can do sound recording. But I wonder how good they are because if they use the same mic that picks up you voice to pick up sounds for recording, I am afraid that it won't work well to pick up sounds 2 meters away. Please comment. Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 24 15:43:51 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:43:51 -0400 Subject: About voice recording In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E2C3DB7.7000501@rogers.com> Antonio T. Sun wrote: > Hi, > > For voice recording, instead of the specialized voice recorder, I'm > wondering what else have you been using and how good it is to record > sounds at least 2 meters away. > > Especially, nowadays, many smart cell phone (ie iphone) can do sound > recording. But I wonder how good they are because if they use the same mic > that picks up you voice to pick up sounds for recording, I am afraid that > it won't work well to pick up sounds 2 meters away. > > Please comment. > Many phones can be used in speaker phone mode, which means you don't have to hold the microphone close to the sound source. However, the further it is away, the more noise you'll also pick up. Normally, with a recorder, you'd use a directional microphone to reduce that problem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 24 15:58:55 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:58:55 -0400 Subject: About voice recording In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4510783216904759511@unknownmsgid> The iPhone's bidirectional mic is also used when you are using the telephone's mic for noise cancelation. It is great for picking up a meeting setting (i.e. a bunch of people around a table) If you want to use it to pick up sound far away from you, you will have to DIY a little hoody (I suggest two business card wrap around the top of the phone) to make it a directional mic. I have used that to pickup a lecture at the back of a conference hall before and it worked out quite while. Myles Braithwaite (via iPhone) On 2011-07-24, at 10:28 AM, "Antonio T. Sun" wrote: > Hi, > > For voice recording, instead of the specialized voice recorder, I'm > wondering what else have you been using and how good it is to record > sounds at least 2 meters away. > > Especially, nowadays, many smart cell phone (ie iphone) can do sound > recording. But I wonder how good they are because if they use the same mic > that picks up you voice to pick up sounds for recording, I am afraid that > it won't work well to pick up sounds 2 meters away. > > Please comment. > > Thanks > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 24 23:24:38 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:24:38 -0400 Subject: Norwegian happenings: geek connection Message-ID: No doubt people have heard about the shocking goings-on in Norway; there is an essay by one of the young people that was there, one Tore Bekkedal. I note that Tore is a Debian developer... The text with which he ends his essay seems like mighty fine comment to me: "I want to end this with a request to everyone who reads this, echoing a statement I read by one of my good friends and comrades: Please, don?t let me see any messages of hatred, wishes for the death penalty, anything like that. If anyone should be of the belief that anything will improve by murdering this sad little person, they would be profoundly wrong. All attention now should be plowed into caring for those victims and their relatives who did not share my luck, and not giving an audience to a perpetrator who wants one." -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 25 09:04:44 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 05:04:44 -0400 Subject: Norwegian happenings: geek connection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110725090444.GA3294@node1.opengeometry.net> One thing I found sort of strange is that, people were asked not to call those who are on the island, for fear that ringing cellphone might give away their location. -- William On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 07:24:38PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > No doubt people have heard about the shocking goings-on in Norway; > there is an essay by one of the young people that was there, one Tore > Bekkedal. > > I note that Tore is a Debian developer... > > > The text with which he ends his essay seems like mighty fine comment to me: > > "I want to end this with a request to everyone who reads this, echoing > a statement I read by one of my good friends and comrades: Please, > don?t let me see any messages of hatred, wishes for the death penalty, > anything like that. If anyone should be of the belief that anything > will improve by murdering this sad little person, they would be > profoundly wrong. All attention now should be plowed into caring for > those victims and their relatives who did not share my luck, and not > giving an audience to a perpetrator who wants one." > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 25 12:23:06 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:23:06 -0400 Subject: Norwegian happenings: geek connection In-Reply-To: <20110725090444.GA3294-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110725090444.GA3294@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4E2D602A.2000202@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > One thing I found sort of strange is that, people were asked not to call > those who are on the island, for fear that ringing cellphone might give > away their location. > Why is that so strange? Many people were hiding from that guy and a ringing phone would have attracted his attention. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 25 16:06:56 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:06:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Openoffice/Libreoffice... is it slow for you too? Message-ID: <1311610016.13573.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi All, Openoffice/Libreoffice has never been "fast".? But, when it's first launched, it's fast enough that I can't complain.? But, when I switch to text console (Ctrl-Alt-Fx) and come back to X, the monitor is black for few seconds (which is very long time, I might add).? After that, Openoffice/Libreoffice is so slow that it becomes unusable.? It's only Office that's slow, though.? X itself is okey, and other X applications (ie. xterm, firefox) are okey too. Has anyone experienced the same thing? ??? ??? Kernel-3.0.0 ??? ??? NVidia-275.21 ??? ??? Openoffice-3.0 ??? ??? Libreoffice-3.4.1 KWord (KDE) is way faster, but it doesn't have the features that I need. Anyways, I tried Lyx for the first time, yesterday.? I liked it.? Very intuitive, if you know LaTeX, of course.? I installed it at home and at work! -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 25 16:13:44 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:13:44 -0400 Subject: Openoffice/Libreoffice... is it slow for you too? In-Reply-To: <1311610016.13573.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOF+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1311610016.13573.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E2D9638.2020102@utoronto.ca> On 07/25/2011 12:06 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi All, > > Openoffice/Libreoffice has never been "fast". But, when it's first launched, it's fast enough that I can't complain. But, when I switch to text console (Ctrl-Alt-Fx) and come back to X, the monitor is black for few seconds (which is very long time, I might add). After that, Openoffice/Libreoffice is so slow that it becomes unusable. It's only Office that's slow, though. X itself is okey, and other X applications (ie. xterm, firefox) are okey too. > > Has anyone experienced the same thing? > Kernel-3.0.0 > NVidia-275.21 > Openoffice-3.0 > Libreoffice-3.4.1 > > KWord (KDE) is way faster, but it doesn't have the features that I need. > > Anyways, I tried Lyx for the first time, yesterday. I liked it. Very intuitive, if you know LaTeX, of course. I installed it at home and at work! I *really* like Kile - wrote my whole thesis with it. Great LaTeX editor. Regarding the slowdown, which Java JRE are you using? I have best results with sun-java6-jre for applications. openjdk-6-jre is great and all, but I run into a lot of KVM, lights out management applications and the like just won't run without the full on Oracle JRE. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 26 00:10:44 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 20:10:44 -0400 Subject: Openoffice/Libreoffice... is it slow for you too? In-Reply-To: <4E2D9638.2020102-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1311610016.13573.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E2D9638.2020102@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20110726001044.GA5790@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 12:13:44PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 07/25/2011 12:06 PM, William Park wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > Openoffice/Libreoffice has never been "fast". But, when it's first > > launched, it's fast enough that I can't complain. But, when I > > switch to text console (Ctrl-Alt-Fx) and come back to X, the monitor > > is black for few seconds (which is very long time, I might add). > > After that, Openoffice/Libreoffice is so slow that it becomes > > unusable. It's only Office that's slow, though. X itself is okey, > > and other X applications (ie. xterm, firefox) are okey too. > > > > Has anyone experienced the same thing? > > Kernel-3.0.0 > > NVidia-275.21 > > Openoffice-3.0 > > Libreoffice-3.4.1 > > > > KWord (KDE) is way faster, but it doesn't have the features that I need. > > > > Anyways, I tried Lyx for the first time, yesterday. I liked it. > > Very intuitive, if you know LaTeX, of course. I installed it at > > home and at work! > > I *really* like Kile - wrote my whole thesis with it. Great LaTeX editor. > > Regarding the slowdown, which Java JRE are you using? I have best > results with sun-java6-jre for applications. openjdk-6-jre is great and > all, but I run into a lot of KVM, lights out management applications and > the like just won't run without the full on Oracle JRE. I just upgraded from jre-6u20 (came with Slackware) to jre-6u26 (from Oracle site). Slightly better, but still too slow to be usable. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 26 01:11:54 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 21:11:54 -0400 Subject: Openoffice/Libreoffice... is it slow for you too? In-Reply-To: <1311610016.13573.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOF+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1311610016.13573.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 12:06 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi All, > > Openoffice/Libreoffice has never been "fast". But, when it's first > launched, it's fast enough that I can't complain. But, when I switch to > text console (Ctrl-Alt-Fx) and come back to X, the monitor is black for few > seconds (which is very long time, I might add). After that, > Openoffice/Libreoffice is so slow that it becomes unusable. It's only > Office that's slow, though. X itself is okey, and other X applications (ie. > xterm, firefox) are okey too. > > Has anyone experienced the same thing? > Kernel-3.0.0 > NVidia-275.21 > Openoffice-3.0 > Libreoffice-3.4.1 > > KWord (KDE) is way faster, but it doesn't have the features that I need. > > KDE user? I've had significant problems with some combinations of NVidia driver, KWin compositing, and OO/LO in the past. Try disabling compositing (A-S-F12), or even just toggling it off/on. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 26 05:54:39 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: war story (spoiler: dying power supply takes disk drive with it) In-Reply-To: <20101006220130.GO12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: [This war story might be boring. But some day you might have to follow my path.] Remember this thread? | From: Lennart Sorensen | Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 18:01:30 -0400 | Subject: [TLUG]: Why not to buy cheap power supplies | | Here is a "500W" power supply being tested at 420W load. | | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCwgK_fvZ6I | | It was the second one they tried just in case the first one was a fluke. One of my MythTV boxes made a funny noise when I powered it down one day last week. I powered it down via GUI, nothing as crude as a mechanical switch. When I tried to power it up, it wouldn't do anything. I have a cheap power supply tester. It said that the power supply wasn't supplying power any longer. Note: this is not a cheap power supply. It is a roughly five year old Antec SmartPower PS-450. But some others have problems with these too: I replaced the power supply with a CoolerMaster RP-650-PCAR that I happened to have in inventory. Still no joy. When I turned power on, the CPU fan would jiggle once but there was no other sign of life. When I unplugged all the peripherals, power seemed to work. A process of elimination showed that the problem came up only when I connected one of my Seagate 7200.11 drives. It seems that the power supply death agony caused the 12V TVS () to blow. I was able to get the disk working again (and the data recovered) by removing the dead TVS. See To get at the TVS, I needed to remove the drive's PC board. That required a TORX T6 tool which is moderately hard to find. I got one at Lowes. I measured the resistance (DVM on 200 ohm scale) across each TVS and found it to be close to 0 on the 12V TVS. I poked at the 12V TVS with a fingernail and it came off. I guess that that means that the circuit board was slightly fried there. But the drive now works. I don't know if the TVS ever protects without sacrificing itself. I imagine that it does. So I should probably rescue the data and treat the drive as junk / unreliable. Since the power supply warranty is only 3 years, I probably cannot get anything from Antec. Since the power supply killed the disk drive (and I did an operation on the drive), I don't see the drive being covered by the Seagate warranty (the drive was purchased on the last week that Seagate offered 5 year warranties on OEM drives). But I'm mad. I think that Antec should have recalled the power supply when they knew of the bad capacitor problem. (I haven't broken the PS's seal so I'm not sure that this is a bad cap problem.) Time for a class action suit. But I'm lazy. Anybody had experience with hidden warranties from Antec? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 26 18:29:35 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: war story (spoiler: dying power supply takes disk drive with it) In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | But I'm mad. I think that Antec should have recalled the power supply | when they knew of the bad capacitor problem. (I haven't broken the | PS's seal so I'm not sure that this is a bad cap problem.) Time for a | class action suit. But I'm lazy. Antec support says: - out of warranty -- we don't care - bad caps problem shows up within 6 months; since this is 5 years, cannot be bad caps - since TVS blown in only one drive, probably the drive broke the power supply, not the other way around [That's foolish. Power supplies can survive shorts on 12V rail. Example: the replacement drive survived being connected to the drive with no problem, multiple times.] I find this quite unsatisfactory. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 26 18:45:29 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: war story (spoiler: dying power supply takes disk drive with it) In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | I replaced the power supply with a CoolerMaster RP-650-PCAR that I | happened to have in inventory. Noisy. Gotta replace. Any recommendations for an inexpensive quiet modest power supply? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 26 18:48:55 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:48:55 -0400 Subject: war story (spoiler: dying power supply takes disk drive with it) In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E2F0C17.60803@utoronto.ca> On 07/26/2011 02:45 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier > > | I replaced the power supply with a CoolerMaster RP-650-PCAR that I > | happened to have in inventory. > > Noisy. Gotta replace. > > Any recommendations for an inexpensive quiet modest power supply? After having a couple Antecs fail on me (I used to swear by them), I'm really happy with OCZ now. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 26 19:32:08 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:32:08 -0400 Subject: war story (spoiler: dying power supply takes disk drive with it) In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110726193208.GA8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 02:45:29PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier > > | I replaced the power supply with a CoolerMaster RP-650-PCAR that I > | happened to have in inventory. > > Noisy. Gotta replace. > > Any recommendations for an inexpensive quiet modest power supply? What size of power supply? Antec Basiq BP500U http://ncix.com/products/?sku=36516&vpn=BP500U&manufacture=Antec They have 5 in stock in markham. $59. Reason I recommend it: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Antec-Basiq-BP500U-Power-Supply-Review/792 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 26 19:34:43 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:34:43 -0400 Subject: war story (spoiler: dying power supply takes disk drive with it) In-Reply-To: <4E2F0C17.60803-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E2F0C17.60803@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20110726193443.GB8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 02:48:55PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > After having a couple Antecs fail on me (I used to swear by them), I'm > really happy with OCZ now. Yeah Antec has some good ones and some bad ones. And the one I just recommended is in fact an Antec, but it is made by the right manufacturer. Antec doesn't actually make anything, they just brand and sell it. Most brands don't make power supplies. Antec Basiq BP500U is great. Antec Basiq BP450U is a piece of shit. Interesting how that works isn't it? The 450 is a different manufacturer and a totally different and much worse design. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 26 19:58:47 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:58:47 -0400 Subject: Need a wireless router recommendation to server 40+ people In-Reply-To: <20110625135302.GA15414-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110625135302.GA15414@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20110726195847.GA19361@yam.witteman.ca> On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 09:53:02AM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >I am providing tech support for a meeting next month, and we want to >offer wifi to the attendees - 40+ people. I've got wired gigabit to the >room, so the question is, which router can I buy that I can configure as >an open access point and will not barf under 40 people hitting a website >at once? Thanks! UPDATE: The event has come and gone and here is what I used and how it worked: Cisco Small Business WRV210 I ran this in b/g Mixed mode on channel 1 Linksys E2500 This is a simultaneous dual-band router, running b/g in Mixed mode on channel 12 and running n on the other radio One thing I found interesting was that I couldn't chain the two routers together - neither would work/pick up an IP from the other. I thought you could plug one into the wall drop and the other into the first one, but it never worked. I arranged to use 2 drops, which worked fine. The Cisco offers more IPs (150 IIRC) compared to the Linksys (50), but I felt like it was good to have both. Results: People mostly connected without difficulty, and the connections were solid all three days. I suspect I could have gotten away with one (the heaviest work we did online all week was Twitter polling), but neither router was expensive, and I was glad to have more than one thing to try when we have conflicts (one users laptop wanted a preset IP, and we had a collision, but it was easy to sort out). Thanks for everyone's help! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 26 21:55:01 2011 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 17:55:01 -0400 Subject: Need a wireless router recommendation to server 40+ people In-Reply-To: <20110726195847.GA19361-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110625135302.GA15414@yam.witteman.ca> <20110726195847.GA19361@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20110726215501.GC986@adb.ca> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > The Cisco offers more IPs (150 IIRC) compared to the Linksys (50), but I > felt like it was good to have both. Are those the default DHCP range sizes? If so they should be quite tunable. And, if your subnet is 10.0.0.0/8 you can offer most of that (four million or so addresses) as your potential pool. Good luck filling that. The main nasty is if you have a pool of eg. 50 but 51 or more devices try and claim an address. Things get ugly then; it's good to have comfortably more addresses than needed so that no contention occurs. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 26 22:50:53 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:50:53 -0400 Subject: Openoffice/Libreoffice... is it slow for you too? In-Reply-To: References: <1311610016.13573.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110726225053.GA3270@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 09:11:54PM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > KDE user? I've had significant problems with some combinations of NVidia > driver, KWin compositing, and OO/LO in the past. Try disabling compositing > (A-S-F12), or even just toggling it off/on. Can you tell me where in the KDE menu I can find it? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 26 23:08:58 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:08:58 -0400 Subject: Openoffice/Libreoffice... is it slow for you too? In-Reply-To: <20110726225053.GA3270-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1311610016.13573.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20110726225053.GA3270@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110726230858.GA3617@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 06:50:53PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 09:11:54PM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > > KDE user? I've had significant problems with some combinations of NVidia > > driver, KWin compositing, and OO/LO in the past. Try disabling compositing > > (A-S-F12), or even just toggling it off/on. > > Can you tell me where in the KDE menu I can find it? Found it... System Setting | Desktop. Yes, turning it off did the trick. Thanks. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 05:05:29 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 01:05:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: So I replaced the 1.5T Seagate 7200.11 drive with a 2T WD EARS drive. I cloned the old disk onto the new drive with a dd (took about 9 hours). Then I remembered: EARS drives secretly have large sectors. (Although the standard allows drives to declare larger-than-512 sectors, WD chose not to do this. Dumb.) So my cloned drive would have bad performance for the half of the partitions that were not aligned on an actual sector boundary. Recent Linux distros align partitions on large boundaries to get around this problem, and a worse one for SSDs. Anyway, wiped out the partition table on the new drive and used gparted to create larger but similar partitions. I'm now dd'ing each partition to do the cloning. I'll do an resize2fs to make each filesystem use its whole partition. Then I'll boot from a grub disk to boot the system (grub is probably not bootable on the new disk) and then ask grub to re-install itself. Is there a better way? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 06:57:33 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 02:57:33 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 01:05:29AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > So I replaced the 1.5T Seagate 7200.11 drive with a 2T WD EARS drive. > > I cloned the old disk onto the new drive with a dd (took about 9 > hours). > > Then I remembered: EARS drives secretly have large sectors. (Although > the standard allows drives to declare larger-than-512 sectors, WD > chose not to do this. Dumb.) > > So my cloned drive would have bad performance for the half of the > partitions that were not aligned on an actual sector boundary. > > Recent Linux distros align partitions on large boundaries to get around > this problem, and a worse one for SSDs. > > Anyway, wiped out the partition table on the new drive and used > gparted to create larger but similar partitions. I'm now dd'ing each > partition to do the cloning. > > I'll do an resize2fs to make each filesystem use its whole partition. > > Then I'll boot from a grub disk to boot the system (grub is probably > not bootable on the new disk) and then ask grub to re-install itself. > > Is there a better way? I've always been uncomfortable using 'dd', because I always needed to reinstall lilo/grub afterwards. If 'dd' copied faithfully, then I wouldn't have to reinstall bootloader. Also, newer filesystem may have newer info or bugfix which older filesystem doesn't have. How about 'mkfs' first, then 'cp -ax' ? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 14:11:41 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:11:41 -0400 Subject: Humble Indie Bundle #3 is on. Message-ID: <20110727141141.GC8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> More games at whatever price you like (which as usual is higher the further you get from running a mainstream commercial OS). http://www.humblebundle.com/ Native Windows, Mac and Linux and no DRM. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 14:13:22 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:13:22 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110727141322.GD8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 01:05:29AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > So I replaced the 1.5T Seagate 7200.11 drive with a 2T WD EARS drive. > > I cloned the old disk onto the new drive with a dd (took about 9 > hours). > > Then I remembered: EARS drives secretly have large sectors. (Although > the standard allows drives to declare larger-than-512 sectors, WD > chose not to do this. Dumb.) > > So my cloned drive would have bad performance for the half of the > partitions that were not aligned on an actual sector boundary. > > Recent Linux distros align partitions on large boundaries to get around > this problem, and a worse one for SSDs. > > Anyway, wiped out the partition table on the new drive and used > gparted to create larger but similar partitions. I'm now dd'ing each > partition to do the cloning. > > I'll do an resize2fs to make each filesystem use its whole partition. > > Then I'll boot from a grub disk to boot the system (grub is probably > not bootable on the new disk) and then ask grub to re-install itself. > > Is there a better way? Sounds about ideal. Could save time by rsync -aHx rather than dd'ing the whole drive (including free space). Would also allow changing to a different filesystem type if you so desire. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 14:14:02 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:14:02 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: <20110727065733.GA3010-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 02:57:33AM -0400, William Park wrote: > I've always been uncomfortable using 'dd', because I always needed to > reinstall lilo/grub afterwards. If 'dd' copied faithfully, then I > wouldn't have to reinstall bootloader. Also, newer filesystem may have > newer info or bugfix which older filesystem doesn't have. > > How about 'mkfs' first, then 'cp -ax' ? I think that breaks hardlinks. rsync -aHx works though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 14:14:50 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:14:50 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110727141450.GF8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 01:05:29AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > So I replaced the 1.5T Seagate 7200.11 drive with a 2T WD EARS drive. > > I cloned the old disk onto the new drive with a dd (took about 9 > hours). > > Then I remembered: EARS drives secretly have large sectors. (Although > the standard allows drives to declare larger-than-512 sectors, WD > chose not to do this. Dumb.) > > So my cloned drive would have bad performance for the half of the > partitions that were not aligned on an actual sector boundary. > > Recent Linux distros align partitions on large boundaries to get around > this problem, and a worse one for SSDs. > > Anyway, wiped out the partition table on the new drive and used > gparted to create larger but similar partitions. I'm now dd'ing each > partition to do the cloning. > > I'll do an resize2fs to make each filesystem use its whole partition. > > Then I'll boot from a grub disk to boot the system (grub is probably > not bootable on the new disk) and then ask grub to re-install itself. > > Is there a better way? Oh and please don't hijack threads. It is REALLY annoying when you actually use a proper threaded email client. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 14:23:37 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:23:37 -0400 Subject: Need a wireless router recommendation to server 40+ people In-Reply-To: References: <20110625135302.GA15414@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: I agree with everything Colin just wrote but would like to add two suggestion Only have one router (both the 802.11g and 802.11n routers if you are going that route) broadcasting an SSID. Having multiple access points broadcasting the same SSID will cause a lot of background noise, and will take down you signal strength. Also don't bother with repeaters they only extend range and don't help if you are adding more people to the network. On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 9:53 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman > wrote: >> I am providing tech support for a meeting next month, and we want to >> offer wifi to the attendees - 40+ people. ?I've got wired gigabit to the >> room, so the question is, which router can I buy that I can configure as >> an open access point and will not barf under 40 people hitting a website >> at once? ?Thanks! > > You have a bunch of problems here each with different flavors of ugly. > You should be able to assume all your attendees have laptops (or other > devices) that support 802.11g, and you can tell anyone that has an > 802.11b only device, sorry, but tough... Okay, I don't care who builds > it or what it is running, there are NO 802.11g routers out there that > could support 40 people hitting a media rich (read video) websites > without barfing, the 802.11g standard just doesn't offer enough > bandwidth. You could go to 802.11n but there are several issues here, > starting with the near certainty that some significantly large > percentage of your users will not support 802.11n so, 802.11g support > will likely be a must. Further, while 802.11n in the 5 GHz band might > be enough enough to support your people, there is no requirement that > 802.11n use the 5 GHz band, meaning some 802.11n devices use just use > 2.4 GHz other support 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. The 802.11n devices that just > support 2.4 GHz will be battling for bandwidth the 802.11g devices > (yuck!). > > Bottom line, if money wasn't a concern I would set-up multiple routers > as follows: > > - 1+ x 5 GHz 802.11n router(s) > - 3 x 2.4 GHz 802.11g routers on channels one each on channels 1, 6 and 11 > > The above would get your attendees as much bandwidth as is possible. > Get the people who have 5 GHz 802.11n support to go to 5GHz and then > try to get the 802.11g/802.11 2.4 GHz ?only people to spread out among > the 2.4 GHz channels. > > Beyond that, one of the Unix Unanimous group regulars (a big *BSD fan) > will happily tell you how he can make the Linux TCP/IP stack fall over > (under semi-extreme conditions). ?So, while not perfect, I do trust > the Linux TCP/IP stack far more than any proprietary software stack. > There are several 802.11g routers out there that can be made to run > 3rd party Linux distros, best known, but hardly only being the Linksys > WRT54GL... > > My $0.02 > > Colin. > >> -- >> >> yours, >> >> William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 15:17:37 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:17:37 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: <20110727141402.GE8564-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I think that breaks hardlinks. rsync -aHx works though. > I thought hard links were deprecated. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 15:22:19 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:22:19 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: <4E302C11.8020403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110727152219.GG8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 11:17:37AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >I think that breaks hardlinks. rsync -aHx works though. > > I thought hard links were deprecated. Ehm, no they are very very useful. Things like rsnapshot would use an enourmous amount of disk space if it wasn't for hardlinks. Many build scripts use hardlink tree copies to make a build directory without taking time or space for a copy, and yet still be able to apply patches without messing up the original source. Tons of uses. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 15:39:33 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:39:33 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: <20110727152219.GG8564-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> <20110727152219.GG8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E303135.8080904@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 11:17:37AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >>> I think that breaks hardlinks. rsync -aHx works though. >>> >> I thought hard links were deprecated. >> > Ehm, no they are very very useful. > > Things like rsnapshot would use an enourmous amount of disk space if it > wasn't for hardlinks. > > Many build scripts use hardlink tree copies to make a build directory > without taking time or space for a copy, and yet still be able to apply > patches without messing up the original source. > > Tons of uses. > > How does that differ from using symbolic links? IIRC, hard links do not work between partitions. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 15:44:03 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:44:03 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: <4E303135.8080904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> <20110727152219.GG8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E303135.8080904@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 11:39 AM, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Tons of uses. > > How does that differ from using symbolic links? ?IIRC, hard links do not > work between partitions. Hard links mean that you're really, really, really referencing the same thing. And there's no need for software to be aware that it's a symlink, as is frequently the case for symlinks. It means that MH captures just one file with a mail message in it, and might store that in multiple folders. None of those locations need to be considered authoritative - you delete from one spot, and that merely removes a reference, which is true for *EVERY* reference. Using symlinks would not be an improvement. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 15:48:08 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:48:08 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: <4E303135.8080904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> <20110727152219.GG8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E303135.8080904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110727154808.GH8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 11:39:33AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > How does that differ from using symbolic links? IIRC, hard links do > not work between partitions. If you symlink, then deleting the original breaks the link. If you hardlink it always stays working. The file only really is deleted when all links to the file are removed. All files have at least one hardlink to them at all times, unless you delete the file. That's why the link count ls -l shows is always at least 1 for all files. hardlinks can have different permissions on each link to the file, symlinks don't. But yes hardlinks don't work across partitions. Nothing wrong with that. For example: -rwxr-xr-x 3 root root 35460 Oct 5 2010 bunzip2 -rwxr-xr-x 3 root root 35460 Oct 5 2010 bzcat -rwxr-xr-x 3 root root 35460 Oct 5 2010 bzip2 Those are hardlinks to the same file with three names. None of them are the original file, unlike with symlinks where you need one real file to symlink to. All files are hardlinks, some just happen to share and inode between them. So hardlinks can't ever be obsolete since then you would not have files at all. The libc call for deleting a file is 'unlink' for a reason after all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 16:53:42 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: <4E302C11.8020403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | I thought hard links were deprecated. By whom? Perhaps someone who doesn't understand UNIX. Hard links were one of the great features since the beginning of UNIX. Symbolic links are a hacky but useful invention of the BSD folks. I avoid them when possible. They were not in 7th Edition UNIX. I imagine that they were in 10th Edition. I think they got added in System V, but I don't remember which release (certainly by 5.4). What's bad about symlinks? - you need two sets of operations on them: the ones that actually deal with the symlink, and ones that see through them to the referenced file. Think ls -L. So this one feature multiplied the complexity of the system. - symlinks can be dangling: the name exists but it references nothing. New odd condition. New error handling paths needed. - symlinks can create loops in the filesystem. Not something possible before. So a tree traversal of a filesystem needs to guard against that. - symbolic links are affected by the system in which they are interpreted. symlinks mixed with NFS can be very confusing. - there are absolute and releative symlinks. I don't actually have an accurate model of how to manipulate them, so I guess most people don't. On the good side, you can symlink to a directory, not something you are supposed to do with hard links. Neither kind of link can live in a Microsoft filesystem as far as I know. Perhaps NTFS. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 17:21:54 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:21:54 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110727172154.GI8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 12:53:42PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > By whom? Perhaps someone who doesn't understand UNIX. > > Hard links were one of the great features since the beginning of UNIX. > > Symbolic links are a hacky but useful invention of the BSD folks. I > avoid them when possible. > > They were not in 7th Edition UNIX. I imagine that they were in 10th > Edition. I think they got added in System V, but I don't remember > which release (certainly by 5.4). > > What's bad about symlinks? > > - you need two sets of operations on them: the ones that actually deal > with the symlink, and ones that see through them to the referenced > file. Think ls -L. So this one feature multiplied the complexity > of the system. > > - symlinks can be dangling: the name exists but it references nothing. > New odd condition. New error handling paths needed. > > - symlinks can create loops in the filesystem. Not something possible > before. So a tree traversal of a filesystem needs to guard against > that. > > - symbolic links are affected by the system in which they are > interpreted. symlinks mixed with NFS can be very confusing. > > - there are absolute and releative symlinks. I don't actually have an > accurate model of how to manipulate them, so I guess most people > don't. > > On the good side, you can symlink to a directory, not something you > are supposed to do with hard links. > > Neither kind of link can live in a Microsoft filesystem as far as I > know. Perhaps NTFS. Yes NTFS can do it, although most people don't. NT 3.5 was Posix compliant after all. It was a US government checklist requirement. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 18:00:41 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:00:41 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110727180041.GA4813@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 12:53:42PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > What's bad about symlinks? > > - you need two sets of operations on them: the ones that actually deal > with the symlink, and ones that see through them to the referenced > file. Think ls -L. So this one feature multiplied the complexity > of the system. > > - symlinks can be dangling: the name exists but it references nothing. > New odd condition. New error handling paths needed. > > - symlinks can create loops in the filesystem. Not something possible > before. So a tree traversal of a filesystem needs to guard against > that. > > - symbolic links are affected by the system in which they are > interpreted. symlinks mixed with NFS can be very confusing. > > - there are absolute and releative symlinks. I don't actually have an > accurate model of how to manipulate them, so I guess most people > don't. One bad thing about hardlink is that, after updating it for a while (say, compiling), you don't know which is new or old, or whether you did 'mv' or 'cp', or someone is editing it somewhere else, etc. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 18:33:57 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:33:57 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: <20110727180041.GA4813-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> <20110727180041.GA4813@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110727183357.GJ8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 02:00:41PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 12:53:42PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > What's bad about symlinks? > > > > - you need two sets of operations on them: the ones that actually deal > > with the symlink, and ones that see through them to the referenced > > file. Think ls -L. So this one feature multiplied the complexity > > of the system. > > > > - symlinks can be dangling: the name exists but it references nothing. > > New odd condition. New error handling paths needed. > > > > - symlinks can create loops in the filesystem. Not something possible > > before. So a tree traversal of a filesystem needs to guard against > > that. > > > > - symbolic links are affected by the system in which they are > > interpreted. symlinks mixed with NFS can be very confusing. > > > > - there are absolute and releative symlinks. I don't actually have an > > accurate model of how to manipulate them, so I guess most people > > don't. > > One bad thing about hardlink is that, after updating it for a while > (say, compiling), you don't know which is new or old, or whether you did > 'mv' or 'cp', or someone is editing it somewhere else, etc. And the symlink avoids this how? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 18:49:46 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:49:46 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: <20110727183357.GJ8564-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> <20110727180041.GA4813@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727183357.GJ8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110727184946.GA5711@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 02:33:57PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 02:00:41PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > One bad thing about hardlink is that, after updating it for a while > > (say, compiling), you don't know which is new or old, or whether you did > > 'mv' or 'cp', or someone is editing it somewhere else, etc. > > And the symlink avoids this how? I can do 'ls -l' and it shows where it's pointing to. With hardlink, I don't know where are the other files, and have to 'find -inum'. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 27 21:25:15 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 17:25:15 -0400 Subject: Arduino interested folk Message-ID: I just saw as part of the "new to Debian package stream" a link to Fritzing, a PC Board designer tool, which includes some Arduino templates. http://fritzing.org/ They have a service for fabbing such, at a not-too-lordly price for low quantities. (It's not *cheap*, but quantity 1 isn't cheap...) -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 00:20:46 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 20:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: <20110727184946.GA5711-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> <20110727180041.GA4813@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727183357.GJ8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727184946.GA5711@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: | From: William Park | I can do 'ls -l' and it shows where it's pointing to. With hardlink, I | don't know where are the other files, and have to 'find -inum'. With a hardlink, there are no other files. All are the same file. I think what you mean is "with a hardlink, I don't know what other pathnames designate the same file". Your wording suggests that you really haven't internalized the meaning of "file" in UNIX. On the other hand, with hardlinks, you know how many there are (the inode has a reference counter). Try that with symlinks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 01:16:21 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: war story (spoiler: dying power supply takes disk drive with it) In-Reply-To: <20110726193208.GA8564-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110726193208.GA8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 02:45:29PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Noisy. Gotta replace. | > | > Any recommendations for an inexpensive quiet modest power supply? | | What size of power supply? | | Antec Basiq BP500U | | http://ncix.com/products/?sku=36516&vpn=BP500U&manufacture=Antec | | They have 5 in stock in markham. $59. | | Reason I recommend it: | http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Antec-Basiq-BP500U-Power-Supply-Review/792 The size would be fine. The review looks OK. But is it reasonably quiet? lists a small number of models, mostly expensive. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 02:42:48 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:42:48 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: <20110727180041.GA4813-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> <20110727180041.GA4813@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 2:00 PM, William Park wrote: > One bad thing about hardlink is that, after updating it for a while > (say, compiling), you don't know which is new or old, or whether you did > 'mv' or 'cp', or someone is editing it somewhere else, etc. Hum? There's no notion of "new" or "old." They're all just links to the same contents. Stow new data in there and the file contains new data, and all the references are pointing to the same "new" contents. That doesn't seem to relate to hardlinks. I suppose there could be confusion if several processes have the same file open, That doesn't have anything to do with hardlinks, though - the confusion would be much the same even if all the processes have the same filename in mind. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 03:16:58 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 23:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: war story (spoiler: dying power supply takes disk drive with it) In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110726193208.GA8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | | From: Lennart Sorensen | | Antec Basiq BP500U | The size would be fine. The review looks OK. But is it reasonably | quiet? | | | lists a small number of models, mostly expensive. When in doubt, cheap out. I jumped at an apparently OK but cheap-this-week power supply: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 10:48:28 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:48:28 -0400 Subject: sipvicious Message-ID: My asterisk box has been compromised by some one, or thing running sipvicious. Any suggestions ? firewall, VPN ? Better passwords ? Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 11:03:14 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:03:14 -0400 Subject: draytek router for evaluation Message-ID: The canadian rep for draytek asked me if I wanted to try out the draytek 2920. Anyone here like to evaluate it ? I don't have cable, so I am going to try out the draytek 2820. Both of these are multi-SSID wireless devices. I'd like whoever this is to honestly evaluate it and send back reports to the list, good or bad. There's only 1 so I have no idea how to determine who gets it. Thoughts ? Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 15:27:29 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:27:29 -0400 Subject: war story (spoiler: dying power supply takes disk drive with it) In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110726193208.GA8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110728152729.GK8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 09:16:21PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The size would be fine. The review looks OK. But is it reasonably > quiet? I think so. Of course I do tend to use very good cases which will dampen a lot, so I tend to barely hear anything from my machines. > > lists a small number of models, mostly expensive. Silent and quiet are very different. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 15:29:21 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:29:21 -0400 Subject: war story (spoiler: dying power supply takes disk drive with it) In-Reply-To: References: <20101006220130.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110726193208.GA8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110728152921.GL8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 11:16:58PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > When in doubt, cheap out. I jumped at an apparently OK but > cheap-this-week power supply: > That's a really bad methodology. A bad power supply will quite literally kill the other components in your machine. Also a bad power supply can make your system unstable and cause lots of unexplained crashes. I have seen that a number of times. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 15:32:55 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:32:55 -0400 Subject: draytek router for evaluation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110728153255.GM8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 07:03:14AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > The canadian rep for draytek asked me if I wanted to try out the > draytek 2920. Anyone here like to evaluate it ? I don't have cable, so > I am going to try out the draytek 2820. Both of these are multi-SSID > wireless devices. > > I'd like whoever this is to honestly evaluate it and send back reports > to the list, good or bad. There's only 1 so I have no idea how to > determine who gets it. Thoughts ? Looks like a decent router for a small company. Probably total overkill for a home user. The backup links with USB cellular and such are different. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 15:58:31 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:58:31 -0400 Subject: Arduino interested folk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interesting. Also, to be clear, something that was not obvious at first glance, this program does produce files for standard PC Board manufacturing (ie: you do NOT have to use Fritzing board making service if you don't want to (and all other things being equal I would prefer a service closer to Toronto than Germany)). Bottom line in all of this, Fritzing makes it easier to build a design on a breadboard and then turn that design into a finished "product" (even if that finished product will only be done in quantities of 1 or 2). Frtizing has put a special emphasis on building Arduino add-on "shield" PC boards, but again you don't have to use it for that. On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > I just saw as part of the "new to Debian package stream" a link to > Fritzing, a PC Board designer tool, which includes some Arduino > templates. > > http://fritzing.org/ > > They have a service for fabbing such, at a not-too-lordly price for > low quantities. ?(It's not *cheap*, but quantity 1 isn't cheap...) > > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 16:20:45 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 12:20:45 -0400 Subject: draytek router for evaluation In-Reply-To: <20110728153255.GM8564-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110728153255.GM8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E318C5D.50904@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 07:03:14AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> The canadian rep for draytek asked me if I wanted to try out the >> draytek 2920. Anyone here like to evaluate it ? I don't have cable, so >> I am going to try out the draytek 2820. Both of these are multi-SSID >> wireless devices. >> >> I'd like whoever this is to honestly evaluate it and send back reports >> to the list, good or bad. There's only 1 so I have no idea how to >> determine who gets it. Thoughts ? >> > Looks like a decent router for a small company. Probably total overkill > for a home user. The backup links with USB cellular and such are > different. > > It mentions mulitple WiFi VLANs & mulitple SSID. However, I didn't see any mention of VLAN on the ethernet side. With multiple SSIDs, you'd normally have multiple VLANs on the local LAN too, although you could make use of 2 in the router for providing internet access to customers, while keeping your business network separate. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 16:54:49 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 12:54:49 -0400 Subject: draytek router for evaluation In-Reply-To: <4E318C5D.50904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110728153255.GM8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E318C5D.50904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110728165449.GN8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 12:20:45PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > It mentions mulitple WiFi VLANs & mulitple SSID. However, I didn't > see any mention of VLAN on the ethernet side. With multiple SSIDs, > you'd normally have multiple VLANs on the local LAN too, although > you could make use of 2 in the router for providing internet access > to customers, while keeping your business network separate. Certainly that's what the DIR-825 I use does with the second SSID on each band. Internet only for guests. I don't remember if it does anything with VLANs since I haven't had a need for those at home. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 17:11:32 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:11:32 -0400 Subject: draytek router for evaluation In-Reply-To: <20110728165449.GN8564-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110728153255.GM8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E318C5D.50904@rogers.com> <20110728165449.GN8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: So who wants to try it, no strings attached. Dave Cramer Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 12:20:45PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> It mentions mulitple WiFi VLANs & mulitple SSID. ?However, I didn't >> see any mention of VLAN on the ethernet side. ?With multiple SSIDs, >> you'd normally have multiple VLANs on the local LAN too, although >> you could make use of 2 in the router for providing internet access >> to customers, while keeping your business network separate. > > Certainly that's what the DIR-825 I use does with the second SSID on > each band. ?Internet only for guests. ?I don't remember if it does > anything with VLANs since I haven't had a need for those at home. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 17:44:59 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:44:59 -0400 Subject: draytek router for evaluation In-Reply-To: References: <20110728153255.GM8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E318C5D.50904@rogers.com> <20110728165449.GN8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110728174459.GO8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 01:11:32PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > So who wants to try it, no strings attached. Well given it appears to be 2.4GHz only, it would be a serious annoyance in my house compared to what I have, and none of the extra features would be anything I would be able to test. So I would be a useless tester. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 28 17:52:01 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:52:01 -0400 Subject: draytek router for evaluation In-Reply-To: References: <20110728153255.GM8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E318C5D.50904@rogers.com> <20110728165449.GN8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E31A1C1.50300@ve3syb.ca> On 11-07-28 01:11 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > So who wants to try it, no strings attached. Looks like an interesting item. I like playing with new "toys" but its way overkill for anything I need on a home LAN. Better suited for someone with a small office. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 29 00:21:17 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:21:17 -0400 Subject: cloning a drive [was: war story] In-Reply-To: References: <20110727065733.GA3010@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727141402.GE8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E302C11.8020403@rogers.com> <20110727180041.GA4813@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110727183357.GJ8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110727184946.GA5711@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110729002117.GA3526@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 08:20:46PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: William Park > > | I can do 'ls -l' and it shows where it's pointing to. With hardlink, I > | don't know where are the other files, and have to 'find -inum'. > > With a hardlink, there are no other files. All are the same file. > > I think what you mean is "with a hardlink, I don't know what other > pathnames designate the same file". > > Your wording suggests that you really haven't internalized the meaning > of "file" in UNIX. > > On the other hand, with hardlinks, you know how many there are (the > inode has a reference counter). Try that with symlinks. I know what is an inode and what is an entry in directory table. But, I'm talking about how we use file everyday. Given 2 files, /aa/bb/cc /xx/yy/zz you would never know if they are the same physical file, unless you see their inode numbers. This means 2 steps, ie. 'ls -il' and then 'find -inum'. Whereas with symlinks, 'ls -l' is enough, and I don't have to think anymore. Symlinks aren't all that bad. :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 29 00:48:34 2011 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:48:34 -0400 Subject: draytek router for evaluation In-Reply-To: References: <20110728153255.GM8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E318C5D.50904@rogers.com> <20110728165449.GN8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I'm interested. I have plenty of time on my hands to play around with this beast of a router. Regards, Sadiq Saif On Jul 28, 2011 1:11 PM, "Dave Cramer" wrote: > So who wants to try it, no strings attached. > > Dave Cramer > Visible Assets Inc. > www.visibleassets.com > > > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 12:20:45PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> It mentions mulitple WiFi VLANs & mulitple SSID. However, I didn't >>> see any mention of VLAN on the ethernet side. With multiple SSIDs, >>> you'd normally have multiple VLANs on the local LAN too, although >>> you could make use of 2 in the router for providing internet access >>> to customers, while keeping your business network separate. >> >> Certainly that's what the DIR-825 I use does with the second SSID on >> each band. Internet only for guests. I don't remember if it does >> anything with VLANs since I haven't had a need for those at home. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 29 17:35:09 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:35:09 -0400 Subject: Attn SysAdmin(s) Message-ID: Happy SysAdmin Day! -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists