From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 2 13:59:35 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 08:59:35 -0500 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer Message-ID: (from Slashdot) We've discussed Plug computers in the past, and this one looks marvelous: http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/2/1/new-it-announces-dreamplug-arm-box/ Assuming it's released over here, I think I may finally have found the plug computer I want. An interesting note: this is an UK site and an UK product, but the plug shown in the picture is North American ... The pre-order page offers both styles. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 2 14:41:51 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 09:41:51 -0500 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D496D2F.1020608@ss.org> On 02/02/2011 08:59 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > (from Slashdot) > We've discussed Plug computers in the past, and this one looks marvelous: > > http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/2/1/new-it-announces-dreamplug-arm-box/ > > Assuming it's released over here, I think I may finally have found the > plug computer I want. An interesting note: this is an UK site and an > UK product, but the plug shown in the picture is North American ... > The pre-order page offers both styles. > I was already to order on of these until I double checked my budget. I'll just have to get started with the PogoPlug I picked up just after Christmas for $69. For those that are just getting started with ARM devices: http://www.plugapps.com/ http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/ Debian provides arm install disks with along with the man ones. I've yet to pin down the difference between arm and armel (likely the level of instruction set supported from what I've been reading else where). -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 2 15:10:56 2011 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 15:10:56 +0000 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I always struggle to figure out how the average guy could use these plug computers at home. For example, my Debian home server died. It was a P2 with 128MB RAM (maybe 256) and a 40GB drive. It was all I needed for a file, mail and print server. Would one of these plug computers be a good replacement? I love the small size and the low power consumption. Could I add an external drive and configure the unit for a similar server as before? Or is this the wrong application altogether? Thanks, John. > Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 08:59:35 -0500 > Subject: [TLUG]: DreamPlug plug computer > From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > (from Slashdot) > We've discussed Plug computers in the past, and this one looks marvelous: > > http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/2/1/new-it-announces-dreamplug-arm-box/ > > Assuming it's released over here, I think I may finally have found the > plug computer I want. An interesting note: this is an UK site and an > UK product, but the plug shown in the picture is North American ... > The pre-order page offers both styles. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 2 15:23:33 2011 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 10:23:33 -0500 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer In-Reply-To: <4D496D2F.1020608-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4D496D2F.1020608@ss.org> Message-ID: <20110202152333.GA12758@amber> On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 09:41:51AM -0500, Scott Sullivan wrote: > Debian provides arm install disks with along with the man ones. I've yet > to pin down the difference between arm and armel (likely the level of arm = big-endian armel = little-endian -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 2 15:36:06 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 07:36:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: DreamPlug plug computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <233710.2772.qm@web113419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Without video, how do you install a distro? Or, do you have to use the distro that comes with it? -- William ----- Original Message ---- > From: Giles Orr > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 8:59:35 AM > Subject: [TLUG]: DreamPlug plug computer > > (from Slashdot) > We've discussed Plug computers in the past, and this one looks marvelous: > > http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/2/1/new-it-announces-dreamplug-arm-box/ > > Assuming it's released over here, I think I may finally have found the > plug computer I want. An interesting note: this is an UK site and an > UK product, but the plug shown in the picture is North American ... > The pre-order page offers both styles. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 2 15:38:07 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 10:38:07 -0500 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer OR Trim Slice In-Reply-To: <4D496D2F.1020608-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4D496D2F.1020608@ss.org> Message-ID: <4D497A5F.7020903@ss.org> On 02/02/2011 09:41 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 02/02/2011 08:59 AM, Giles Orr wrote: >> (from Slashdot) >> We've discussed Plug computers in the past, and this one looks >> marvelous: >> >> http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/2/1/new-it-announces-dreamplug-arm-box/ >> >> Assuming it's released over here, I think I may finally have found the >> plug computer I want. An interesting note: this is an UK site and an >> UK product, but the plug shown in the picture is North American ... >> The pre-order page offers both styles. >> > I was already to order on of these until I double checked my budget. > I'll just have to get started with the PogoPlug I picked up just after > Christmas for $69. > > For those that are just getting started with ARM devices: > > http://www.plugapps.com/ > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/ > > Debian provides arm install disks with along with the man ones. I've > yet to pin down the difference between arm and armel (likely the level > of instruction set supported from what I've been reading else where). > Also, if your willing to wait till about April there is the Trim Slice. http://www.fit-pc.com/trimslice/ Now that's an ARM device I would replace my desktop with! -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 2 15:41:34 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 10:41:34 -0500 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D497B2E.6070009@ss.org> On 02/02/2011 10:10 AM, john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > I always struggle to figure out how the average guy could use these > plug computers at home. For example, my Debian home server died. It > was a P2 with 128MB RAM (maybe 256) and a 40GB drive. It was all I > needed for a file, mail and print server. > > Would one of these plug computers be a good replacement? I love the > small size and the low power consumption. Could I add an external > drive and configure the unit for a similar server as before? Or is > this the wrong application altogether? That's exactly what there targeted at. If you look into some of the commercialization of Sheeva Plug (the Dev kit before the DreamPlug) you'll find a lot of Personal NAS and Print Server options. Plug Apps has a decent break down on the available units and instructions on how to install their distro on them (nothing stopping you from install something else though, just takes a little work). http://www.plugapps.com/index.php5?title=Portal:Hardware -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 2 15:46:29 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 10:46:29 -0500 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer In-Reply-To: <233710.2772.qm-iGg6QNsgFOE5A34FEqDeB/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <233710.2772.qm@web113419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D497C55.5060809@ss.org> On 02/02/2011 10:36 AM, William Park wrote: > Without video, how do you install a distro? > Or, do you have to use the distro that comes with it? Most times folks will break out a good old Serial Terminal connection on these things. Look up uucp and the cu command to get yourself started on that. Debian Installer supports Serial Consoles well and from what I've been reading is one of the distro's with the Best ARM support at the moment. Alternatively. Other folks just prepare a root file system on a USB drive and then boot that instead. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/SheevaplugUSB [See my other posts in thread for links to Plug Apps.] -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 2 16:05:49 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 08:05:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: DreamPlug plug computer OR Trim Slice In-Reply-To: <4D497A5F.7020903-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4D496D2F.1020608@ss.org> <4D497A5F.7020903@ss.org> Message-ID: <823125.57626.qm@web113418.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Much better. All it needs is eSATA, but I guess USB will do. If it can play Flash Video or movie, then it will definitely do. -- William ----- Original Message ---- > From: Scott Sullivan > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 10:38:07 AM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: DreamPlug plug computer OR Trim Slice > Also, if your willing to wait till about April there is the Trim Slice. > > http://www.fit-pc.com/trimslice/ > > Now that's an ARM device I would replace my desktop with! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 2 16:22:12 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 11:22:12 -0500 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:10 AM, wrote: > I always struggle to figure out how the average guy could use these plug > computers at home. For example, my Debian home server died. It was a P2 with > 128MB RAM (maybe 256) and a 40GB drive. It was all I needed for a file, mail > and print server. > > Would one of these plug computers be a good replacement? I love the small > size and the low power consumption. Could I add an external drive and > configure the unit for a similar server as before? Or is this the wrong > application altogether? I think that's the intent, though I, too, have found them a bit too "wimpy" thus far, and a lot of that is how they're being sold. They are surely plenty powerful enough to run Debian with a pretty fair array of services. They're pointedly *NOT* powerful enough (and rather too headless!) to run the other typical "desktop" distributions (e.g. - Ubuntu, RHAT, Centos, and such), with the consequence that the vendors seem fixated on pushing them out with "embedded distributions" that aren't nearly good enough. Stick Debian on it, and it's easy enough to "apt-get upgrade" to keep the device up to date with security patches and such, which, for this purpose, is reasonably important. And it's easy for me to add the 4 things that cbbrowne needs, and it's easy for you to add the 7 different things that you need, no muss or fuss. Stick [My Random EmbedLinux] on it, and keeping it up to date depends on the weakest link of a) vendor and b) whomever *actually* wrote [My Random EmbedLinux]. And supposing I want Git and cfengine, and they're not default packages, I may be compelled to build a cross-compiling environment (that only ever half works) on the "bigger server machine" that I rather wanted this to replace in the first place... A number of these "plugs" have acquired some support for installing Debian, but the indications I see thus far are that it requires jumping thru a few more hoops than leave me happy. The TrimSlice looks pretty neat, though it might still suffer from the same issues surrounding what gets sold. And it doesn't really exist until boxes are physically available at stores I'd shop at ;-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 2 16:24:00 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 11:24:00 -0500 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer In-Reply-To: <20110202152333.GA12758@amber> References: <4D496D2F.1020608@ss.org> <20110202152333.GA12758@amber> Message-ID: <20110202162400.GC347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 10:23:33AM -0500, Peter King wrote: > On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 09:41:51AM -0500, Scott Sullivan wrote: > > > Debian provides arm install disks with along with the man ones. I've yet > > to pin down the difference between arm and armel (likely the level of > > arm = big-endian > armel = little-endian No. arm = little endian, old ABI. Pretty much dead now. armel = little endian, new ABI (much faster floating point emulation by about a factor of 10, and still efficient on hardware floating point hardware). armeb = dead big endian port with old ABI. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 2 17:10:23 2011 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 17:10:23 +0000 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer OR Trim Slice In-Reply-To: <4D497A5F.7020903-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4D496D2F.1020608@ss.org>,<4D497A5F.7020903@ss.org> Message-ID: I can wait until April. I'd choose the device that would give me the best storage options. John. > Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 10:38:07 -0500 > From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: DreamPlug plug computer OR Trim Slice > > On 02/02/2011 09:41 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > > On 02/02/2011 08:59 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > >> (from Slashdot) > >> We've discussed Plug computers in the past, and this one looks > >> marvelous: > >> > >> http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/2/1/new-it-announces-dreamplug-arm-box/ > >> > >> Assuming it's released over here, I think I may finally have found the > >> plug computer I want. An interesting note: this is an UK site and an > >> UK product, but the plug shown in the picture is North American ... > >> The pre-order page offers both styles. > >> > > I was already to order on of these until I double checked my budget. > > I'll just have to get started with the PogoPlug I picked up just after > > Christmas for $69. > > > > For those that are just getting started with ARM devices: > > > > http://www.plugapps.com/ > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/ > > > > Debian provides arm install disks with along with the man ones. I've > > yet to pin down the difference between arm and armel (likely the level > > of instruction set supported from what I've been reading else where). > > > Also, if your willing to wait till about April there is the Trim Slice. > > http://www.fit-pc.com/trimslice/ > > Now that's an ARM device I would replace my desktop with! > > -- > Scott Sullivan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 02:28:45 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 18:28:45 -0800 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've been reading that the SheevaPlug has a tendency to have some pretty big heat and or PSU burnout issues. I wonder if this one is any better. On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > (from Slashdot) > We've discussed Plug computers in the past, and this one looks marvelous: > > http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/2/1/new-it-announces-dreamplug-arm-box/ > > Assuming it's released over here, I think I may finally have found the > plug computer I want. ?An interesting note: this is an UK site and an > UK product, but the plug shown in the picture is North American ... > The pre-order page offers both styles. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA "Computers don't make mistakes. They can, however, execute those provided to them very quickly" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 04:14:10 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 23:14:10 -0500 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D4A2B92.2020403@ss.org> On 02/02/2011 09:28 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I've been reading that the SheevaPlug has a tendency to have some > pretty big heat and or PSU burnout issues. I wonder if this one is any > better. If you have a look at the Features page, you'll see photos that show the PSU is now a detachable separate section. http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/skins/skin_1/images/dp_5.jpg As for heat, well if the got the PSU issue, we can at least hope they dealt with the issue as well. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 05:26:40 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 21:26:40 -0800 Subject: DreamPlug plug computer In-Reply-To: <4D4A2B92.2020403-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4D4A2B92.2020403@ss.org> Message-ID: At least this way, if the PSU dies, it can be easily replaced. Even better, it may make this sucker easy to mod for alternate power. With such low consumption it might do very well on batteries and solar... On 2011-02-02 8:14 PM, "Scott Sullivan" wrote: > On 02/02/2011 09:28 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> I've been reading that the SheevaPlug has a tendency to have some >> pretty big heat and or PSU burnout issues. I wonder if this one is any >> better. > If you have a look at the Features page, you'll see photos that show the > PSU is now a detachable separate section. > > http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/skins/skin_1/images/dp_5.jpg > > As for heat, well if the got the PSU issue, we can at least hope they > dealt with the issue as well. > > -- > Scott Sullivan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 17:36:18 2011 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 12:36:18 -0500 Subject: CRTC Internet Ruling To Be Reversed Message-ID: <4D4AE792.6090206@yaknet.ca> http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/932571--ottawa-threatens-to-reverse-crtc-decision-on-internet-billing This made my day. I have to wonder if my e-mail to the PMO had anything to do with it ;-) John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 17:38:40 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 12:38:40 -0500 Subject: CRTC Internet Ruling To Be Reversed In-Reply-To: <4D4AE792.6090206-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D4AE792.6090206@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <4D4AE820.4080106@rogers.com> John Myshrall wrote: > I have to wonder if my e-mail to the PMO had anything to do with it ;-) > No, it was my complaint that did it. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 18:04:01 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:04:01 -0500 Subject: CRTC Internet Ruling To Be Reversed In-Reply-To: <4D4AE820.4080106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4D4AE792.6090206@yaknet.ca> <4D4AE820.4080106@rogers.com> Message-ID: >> >> I have to wonder if my e-mail to the PMO had anything to do with it ;-) >> > > No, it was my complaint that did it. ?;-) Really great news. I saw it Friday somewhere in google news, but the language was not as strong. This sound better but we got to wait. It will be the second decision CRTC has made just to see it overturned within an year from each other. The good news is if they keep doing this, CRTC will become irrelevant, or at least make them shy of pushing the telcom interest too much at the expense of the consumer. Anyway, no decision yet so lets wait and see what will be born William > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 18:45:18 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:45:18 -0500 Subject: CRTC Internet Ruling To Be Reversed In-Reply-To: References: <4D4AE792.6090206@yaknet.ca> <4D4AE820.4080106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110203184518.GD347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 01:04:01PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > Really great news. I saw it Friday somewhere in google news, but the > language was not as strong. This sound better but we got to wait. > > It will be the second decision CRTC has made just to see it overturned > within an year from each other. The good news is if they keep doing > this, CRTC will become irrelevant, or at least make them shy of > pushing the telcom interest too much at the expense of the consumer. Well my wife claims the CRTC is just doing their job interpreting the current laws as they see them. If parliment thinks they are doing it wrong they should go fix the broken laws the CRTC is basing their decisions on. After all, would someone like teksavvy be permitted to build their own cable network in toronto and start offering competing service to Rogers and Bell or do they somehow have a monopoly on that? Is there anywhere that has more than one cable TV network in the same street? I know Bell is starting to roll out fiber based TV, although using ADSL2 over the telephone line for the last little bit, so they aren't really putting new infastructure in place where rogers has cable. > Anyway, no decision yet so lets wait and see what will be born Yep. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 19:37:56 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:37:56 -0500 Subject: Debian Squeeze Parties this weekend Message-ID: Apparently, the next release of Debian is scheduled for this weekend. And there are parties happening: http://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartySqueeze Alas, none are located in Toronto :-( -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 19:40:33 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 11:40:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: CRTC Internet Ruling To Be Reversed In-Reply-To: <20110203184518.GD347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4D4AE792.6090206@yaknet.ca> <4D4AE820.4080106@rogers.com> <20110203184518.GD347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <683355.99351.qm@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> WiFi cloud over GTA would be the cheapest solution. But, I think Google tried something like that and failed. -- William ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lennart Sorensen > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Thu, February 3, 2011 1:45:18 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: CRTC Internet Ruling To Be Reversed > > On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 01:04:01PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > > Really great news. I saw it Friday somewhere in google news, but the > > language was not as strong. This sound better but we got to wait. > > > > It will be the second decision CRTC has made just to see it overturned > > within an year from each other. The good news is if they keep doing > > this, CRTC will become irrelevant, or at least make them shy of > > pushing the telcom interest too much at the expense of the consumer. > > Well my wife claims the CRTC is just doing their job interpreting the > current laws as they see them. If parliment thinks they are doing > it wrong they should go fix the broken laws the CRTC is basing their > decisions on. > > After all, would someone like teksavvy be permitted to build their own > cable network in toronto and start offering competing service to Rogers > and Bell or do they somehow have a monopoly on that? Is there anywhere > that has more than one cable TV network in the same street? I know Bell > is starting to roll out fiber based TV, although using ADSL2 over the > telephone line for the last little bit, so they aren't really putting > new infastructure in place where rogers has cable. > > > Anyway, no decision yet so lets wait and see what will be born > > Yep. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 19:52:30 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:52:30 -0500 Subject: Debian Squeeze Parties this weekend In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110203195230.GE347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 02:37:56PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > Apparently, the next release of Debian is scheduled for this weekend. > > And there are parties happening: > http://wiki.debian.org/ReleasePartySqueeze > Alas, none are located in Toronto :-( Conviniently right before the superbowl. I wonder if that causes any scheduling conflicts. :) As for none in Toronto, I am sure someone could fix that. Montreal appears to be the only one in Canada so far. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 19:57:50 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:57:50 -0500 Subject: CRTC Internet Ruling To Be Reversed In-Reply-To: <683355.99351.qm-iGg6QNsgFOF+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <4D4AE792.6090206@yaknet.ca> <4D4AE820.4080106@rogers.com> <20110203184518.GD347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <683355.99351.qm@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110203195750.GF347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 11:40:33AM -0800, William Park wrote: > WiFi cloud over GTA would be the cheapest solution. > But, I think Google tried something like that and failed. Cheap? Really? Crappy is what it would be. Wifi really sucks when it comes to bandwidth. Way more bandwidth when you can seperate things into seperate cables that don't interfere with each other. Fiber optics are probably ideal for bandwidth. I suspect One fibre optic cable could carry more data than combining all the wifi spectrum you could get below 10Ghz. After all lab tests have pushed 100Pbps through a single fiber optic cable. Tbps speeds are trivial on fibre these days. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 21:54:50 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 16:54:50 -0500 Subject: CRTC Internet Ruling To Be Reversed In-Reply-To: References: <4D4AE792.6090206@yaknet.ca> <4D4AE820.4080106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110203215450.GA23982@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 01:04:01PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote > It will be the second decision CRTC has made just to see it overturned > within an year from each other. The good news is if they keep doing > this, CRTC will become irrelevant, or at least make them shy of > pushing the telcom interest too much at the expense of the consumer. If the Conservatives want a majority government, abolishing the the CRTC and letting in US satellite for legal subscriptions in Canada would just about guarantee it. > Anyway, no decision yet so lets wait and see what will be born Comcast in the US with 250 gigs/month is a good start. And bandwidth costs the Bell/Rogers more like a dime a gigabyte, not two dollars. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 22:07:52 2011 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:07:52 -0500 Subject: CRTC Internet Ruling To Be Reversed In-Reply-To: <20110203215450.GA23982-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4D4AE792.6090206@yaknet.ca> <4D4AE820.4080106@rogers.com> <20110203215450.GA23982@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Michael Geist, like usual, has a good write up on the situation. I am warning you though, the site is kind of slow as it was Slashdotted earlier, so it may or may not be back up to speed. http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5615/125/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 22:28:52 2011 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:28:52 -0500 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?OT=3A_Don=E2=80=99t_fear_the_beard?= Message-ID: Just found this, it's a blog post talking about FOSS & beards: http://larrythefreesoftwareguy.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/dont-fear-the-beard/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 23:02:00 2011 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 18:02:00 -0500 Subject: CRTC Internet Ruling To Be Reversed In-Reply-To: References: <4D4AE792.6090206@yaknet.ca> <4D4AE820.4080106@rogers.com> <20110203215450.GA23982@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: So, the CRTC just delayed it's ruling for 60 days past the March 1st deadline, however, Clement said they have to decide by the first or he'll step in. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 3 23:06:55 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 18:06:55 -0500 Subject: CRTC Internet Ruling To Be Reversed In-Reply-To: References: <4D4AE792.6090206@yaknet.ca> <4D4AE820.4080106@rogers.com> <20110203215450.GA23982@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4D4B350F.7000604@alteeve.com> On 02/03/2011 06:02 PM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > So, the CRTC just delayed it's ruling for 60 days past the March 1st > deadline, however, Clement said they have to decide by the first or > he'll step in. This is my fear... They will stall and wait, then try again later. This has to be put to bed conclusively. Keep the pressure on your local MPs. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 00:34:34 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 19:34:34 -0500 Subject: OT: wind ruling sides with crtc Message-ID: Hello, Do you guys think wind will be sold or decommissioned with the newest ruling? http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2011/02/04/crtc-globalive-harper.html?ref=rss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 01:44:56 2011 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 20:44:56 -0500 Subject: OT: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Don=E2=80=99t_fear_the_beard?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <454a6c97921e9ca6bb11152c13458a40.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> He forgot about Alan Cox (and probably others)... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Alan_Cox_at_FOSS_2007.jpg ...that's a beard worth mentioning I think. :-) > Just found this, it's a blog post talking about FOSS & beards: > > http://larrythefreesoftwareguy.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/dont-fear-the-beard/ > > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 03:25:47 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 22:25:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: UBB and more explained very well Message-ID: This submission to the cabinet seems like an excellent in-depth description of the issues. 27 pages that I was very glad to read. Small example: the Bell "Acceptable Use Policy" now applies to other ISP's customers. Outrageous. Example: no servers. Email only for non-commercial purposes. Egads. Technical note: the government is legally referred to as "governor in council". The Governor General is advised by his ministers (the council) and will almost always do what they recommend. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 04:29:24 2011 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 23:29:24 -0500 Subject: UBB and more explained very well In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2854ebf59a7c9b1a2d54ff16c0040cbd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> I'm with TekSavvy and have a 200GB cap but I have always had the option of switching to their unlimited service. On average I use 80GB/month and that is with 3 people using the connection as well as running a server. There are two issues I have with the new UBB rules. First I would be limited to a paltry 25GB/month, which isn't nearly enough. Second we are being overcharged for the small amount of bandwidth we are limited too. Bell charges $31.95 for those 25GB/month. According to Steve Anderson of openmedia.ca the Telecoms costs are less than $0.01/GB (give or take) which means you are paying around $1.28/GB. If you go over your monthly limit they charge your $1.90/GB! All this and their cost is about a penny! Obviously they are ripping us off big time. At these prices the argument that the heavy users are subsidized by the lite users is shaky at best. Even if someone where to go to the extreme and download 1000GB the cost to the Telecoms is only $10.00 meaning they could still charge $31.95 and make a hefty profit. I suspect if they had offered reasonable prices for reasonable allotments of bandwidth the Telecoms would have gotten away with bandwidth caps. Now I have another issue. As you just mentioned, no servers. Why should they dictate to me how I use the bandwidth I pay for? > This submission to the cabinet seems like an excellent in-depth > description of the issues. > > > 27 pages that I was very glad to read. > > Small example: the Bell "Acceptable Use Policy" now applies to other ISP's > customers. Outrageous. Example: no servers. Email only for > non-commercial > purposes. Egads. > > Technical note: the government is legally referred to as "governor in > council". The Governor General is advised by his ministers (the > council) and will almost always do what they recommend. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 04:53:19 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 23:53:19 -0500 Subject: DDR3-1333 vs. DDR3-16000 Message-ID: <20110205045319.GA4107@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi all, I have basic overclocking question... Most CPU specs say DDR3-1333 (i7 upto DDR3-1066), and most motherboard specs say DDR3-1600 or higher. What's the point of using DDR3-1600 memory when the CPU (memory controller inside) can only do DDR3-1333 ? Common answer seems to be for better overclocking. But, specs for both 2.8GHz and 3.2GHz CPUs say DDR3-1333. So, I don't get it. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 06:03:24 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 01:03:24 -0500 Subject: DDR3-1333 vs. DDR3-16000 In-Reply-To: <20110205045319.GA4107-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110205045319.GA4107@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4D4CE82C.4000904@ss.org> On 02/04/2011 11:53 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > I have basic overclocking question... > > Most CPU specs say DDR3-1333 (i7 upto DDR3-1066), and most motherboard > specs say DDR3-1600 or higher. What's the point of using DDR3-1600 > memory when the CPU (memory controller inside) can only do DDR3-1333 ? > > Common answer seems to be for better overclocking. But, specs for both > 2.8GHz and 3.2GHz CPUs say DDR3-1333. So, I don't get it. DDR3-1333 is the default maximum "safe" speed by spec for DDR3 Memory. Anything over that is outside of spec, but there is sufficient demand for over clocking that Memory is now built to handle those higher speeds. It is up to the owner of the system to change the BIOS settings to enable those higher speeds. It is up to the person doing the overclocking to verify compatibility choose the appropriate voltages and timings. It's very similar to running your CPU at a higher frequency, it just not considered "safe default" to do so unless you know what your doing. I've done this once before when I built a machine for a friend. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 06:20:05 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 01:20:05 -0500 Subject: DDR3-1333 vs. DDR3-16000 In-Reply-To: <4D4CE82C.4000904-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20110205045319.GA4107@node1.opengeometry.net> <4D4CE82C.4000904@ss.org> Message-ID: <20110205062005.GA4541@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Feb 05, 2011 at 01:03:24AM -0500, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 02/04/2011 11:53 PM, William Park wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >I have basic overclocking question... > > > >Most CPU specs say DDR3-1333 (i7 upto DDR3-1066), and most motherboard > >specs say DDR3-1600 or higher. What's the point of using DDR3-1600 > >memory when the CPU (memory controller inside) can only do DDR3-1333 ? > > > >Common answer seems to be for better overclocking. But, specs for both > >2.8GHz and 3.2GHz CPUs say DDR3-1333. So, I don't get it. > DDR3-1333 is the default maximum "safe" speed by spec for DDR3 Memory. > Anything over that is outside of spec, but there is sufficient demand > for over clocking that Memory is now built to handle those higher > speeds. It is up to the owner of the system to change the BIOS settings > to enable those higher speeds. It is up to the person doing the > overclocking to verify compatibility choose the appropriate voltages and > timings. > > It's very similar to running your CPU at a higher frequency, it just not > considered "safe default" to do so unless you know what your doing. > > I've done this once before when I built a machine for a friend. Does that mean CPU frequency and Memory frequency move proportionally, say by 10% each? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 04:28:49 2011 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 23:28:49 -0500 Subject: UBB and more explained very well In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88e3839d3ca33643cc7ee7aa456cb2c7.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Very interesting. Although I'm very suspicious of Bell (and Rogers, from whom I had two sales calls this evening in spite of being on the Do Not Call list), I was not aware of the specifics and this is very helpful in clarifying the issues. One minor point: I think 'while' should be 'white' at several places in the document. Peter > This submission to the cabinet seems like an excellent in-depth > description of the issues. > > > 27 pages that I was very glad to read. > > Small example: the Bell "Acceptable Use Policy" now applies to other ISP's > customers. Outrageous. Example: no servers. Email only for > non-commercial > purposes. Egads. > > Technical note: the government is legally referred to as "governor in > council". The Governor General is advised by his ministers (the > council) and will almost always do what they recommend. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 10:56:30 2011 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 05:56:30 -0500 Subject: UBB and more explained very well In-Reply-To: <2854ebf59a7c9b1a2d54ff16c0040cbd.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <2854ebf59a7c9b1a2d54ff16c0040cbd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: > I'm with TekSavvy and have a 200GB cap but I have always had the option of > switching to their unlimited service. On average I use 80GB/month and that > is with 3 people using the connection as well as running a server. > > There are two issues I have with the new UBB rules. First I would be > limited to a paltry 25GB/month, which isn't nearly enough. Second we are > being overcharged for the small amount of bandwidth we are limited too. > Bell charges $31.95 for those 25GB/month. > > According to Steve Anderson of openmedia.ca the Telecoms costs are less > than $0.01/GB (give or take) which means you are paying around $1.28/GB. > If you go over your monthly limit they charge your $1.90/GB! All this and > their cost is about a penny! Obviously they are ripping us off big time. The above paragraph should read as follows, sorry for the typos... According to Steve Anderson of openmedia.ca the Telecoms costs are less than $0.01/GB (give or take) and you are paying around $1.28/GB. If you go over your monthly limit they charge you $1.90/GB! All this and their cost is about a penny! Obviously they are ripping us off big time. > At these prices the argument that the heavy users are subsidized by the > lite users is shaky at best. Even if someone where to go to the extreme > and download 1000GB the cost to the Telecoms is only $10.00 meaning they > could still charge $31.95 and make a hefty profit. I suspect if they had > offered reasonable prices for reasonable allotments of bandwidth the > Telecoms would have gotten away with bandwidth caps. > > Now I have another issue. As you just mentioned, no servers. Why should > they dictate to me how I use the bandwidth I pay for? > >> This submission to the cabinet seems like an excellent in-depth >> description of the issues. >> >> >> 27 pages that I was very glad to read. >> >> Small example: the Bell "Acceptable Use Policy" now applies to other >> ISP's >> customers. Outrageous. Example: no servers. Email only for >> non-commercial >> purposes. Egads. >> >> Technical note: the government is legally referred to as "governor in >> council". The Governor General is advised by his ministers (the >> council) and will almost always do what they recommend. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 13:25:08 2011 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (aaron d) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 08:25:08 -0500 Subject: DDR3-1333 vs. DDR3-16000 In-Reply-To: <20110205062005.GA4541-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110205045319.GA4107@node1.opengeometry.net> <4D4CE82C.4000904@ss.org> <20110205062005.GA4541@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On my AMD system, at least, memory and CPU are set by FSB and multipliers. RAM has a separate multiplier than the CPU, so I am able to run it at it's stock speed(ddr3-1600). I can also tighten the timings to those stated in the literature for my RAM. All this doesnt effect the CPU speed at all. One thing to note is that it is very hard to find DDR3 that aruns at the SPEC voltage (1.5). While most baords will support giving more juice, you have to pay attention. IF you know what kind of RAM voltage settings your current board has, that is good. On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 1:20 AM, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Feb 05, 2011 at 01:03:24AM -0500, Scott Sullivan wrote: > > On 02/04/2011 11:53 PM, William Park wrote: > > >Hi all, > > > > > >I have basic overclocking question... > > > > > >Most CPU specs say DDR3-1333 (i7 upto DDR3-1066), and most motherboard > > >specs say DDR3-1600 or higher. What's the point of using DDR3-1600 > > >memory when the CPU (memory controller inside) can only do DDR3-1333 ? > > > > > >Common answer seems to be for better overclocking. But, specs for both > > >2.8GHz and 3.2GHz CPUs say DDR3-1333. So, I don't get it. > > DDR3-1333 is the default maximum "safe" speed by spec for DDR3 Memory. > > Anything over that is outside of spec, but there is sufficient demand > > for over clocking that Memory is now built to handle those higher > > speeds. It is up to the owner of the system to change the BIOS settings > > to enable those higher speeds. It is up to the person doing the > > overclocking to verify compatibility choose the appropriate voltages and > > timings. > > > > It's very similar to running your CPU at a higher frequency, it just not > > considered "safe default" to do so unless you know what your doing. > > > > I've done this once before when I built a machine for a friend. > > Does that mean CPU frequency and Memory frequency move proportionally, > say by 10% each? > > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 14:28:30 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 09:28:30 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work Message-ID: Hey there, Anyone using GMail to receive texts on their mobile? I tried to set up GMail to forward mail to my phone, but apparently there's an ongoing problem. GMail sends a confirmation code and it gets cut off by the phone because it is too long. People have been harassing Google to fix this, it looks like, but I could not find any answer or solution. Anyone have this working? -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 15:20:46 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 10:20:46 -0500 Subject: OT: wind ruling sides with crtc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 February 2011 19:34, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hello, > > Do you guys think wind will be sold or decommissioned with the newest > ruling? > > http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2011/02/04/crtc-globalive-harper.html?ref=rss Hmm, as Lennart had said, it look like these pains has to do with horrible laws, or at least, laws that have been superseded by time. Now, the question is, which is the path of least resistance for the government. I am not being objective here as I am a wind customer. I am more inclined to think there is very little chance of them forcing wind out of business for several reasons:- Wind is already in business and forcing it out of business would be very transparent to even people who never follows news closely. That would be politically sensitive as it would force them back to the unpopular carriers and people in turn would take their disapproval to the ballot box. That was not the case when Wind was not operating yet. Second, you can not "sell" under duress. That essentially will not meet the definition of selling as far as contract is concerned. So, if the government opt to force them off the market, they will have to reimburse Wind somehow. The price will be determined by Wind alone as anything else will only result to Wind suing the government for not respecting private properties. It would be akin to the same complains we hard about Russia not respecting investors when they took over some oil company. Personally, I thought that was the right thing since that oil company was acquired illegally, but that is a discussion for another day. With that in mind, I do not see Canadian government trying to close down Wind. The road of least resistance is to seat down in parliament and pass a couple of amendments that will allow Wind to stay. I really cannot see how closing down Wind would not be politically explosive, unless I have been living in a cave. Anyway, as I said, I am not that objective here considering I have an interest on one side already Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 17:11:13 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 12:11:13 -0500 Subject: UBB and more explained very well In-Reply-To: <88e3839d3ca33643cc7ee7aa456cb2c7.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <88e3839d3ca33643cc7ee7aa456cb2c7.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:28 PM, wrote: > Very interesting. Although I'm very suspicious of Bell (and Rogers, from > whom I had two sales calls this evening in spite of being on the Do Not > Call list), Have you done any business with Rogers recently? If so they may be able to call you regardless of your status on the DNC*. If not, you could lodge a complaint (ugh... with the CRTC); several thousand people did just that due to Bell's telemarketing tactics. By way of example, see . * From the "Who Can Still Call You" DNC page: Telemarketing calls from organizations with whom you have an existing business relationship are also exempt. You are considered to have an existing business relationship with a telemarketer if you: - Purchased, leased, or rented a product or service in the last eighteen (18) months from the telemarketer; - Have a written contract with the telemarketer for a service that is still in effect or expired within the last eighteen (18) months; and/or - Asked a telemarketer about a product or service within the last six (6) months. (The section "What can you do to reduce telemarketing calls that are exempt from the National DNCL Rules?" may also be relevant) -- ? Scott Elcomb ? http://www.psema4.com/?? @psema4 ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 17:26:14 2011 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 12:26:14 -0500 Subject: UBB and more explained very well In-Reply-To: References: <88e3839d3ca33643cc7ee7aa456cb2c7.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4aa06f99bcd829ee84e39b50a387200f.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Very interesting. Indeed. we are currently subscribed to Rogers cable, so I guess they are allowed to call. Ugh. It's the 'buy something from us and we have a license to harass you for ever' business model. At one point, I was receiving *several* mailings per week from American Express. It felt like an assault. I contacted them and said that I wanted them to *never*, under *any circumstances* to communicate with me again. The woman said 'We have a list for people like you.' (I didn't explore what 'like you' implied, but I'll bet it wasn't good.) Anyway, from that day forward I have not had anything from American Express. Thank god. I'll contact Rogers and ask to be put on a Rogers 'do not call' list. Thanks for the information. Peter > On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 11:28 PM, wrote: >> Very interesting. Although I'm very suspicious of Bell (and Rogers, from >> whom I had two sales calls this evening in spite of being on the Do Not >> Call list), > > Have you done any business with Rogers recently? If so they may be > able to call you regardless of your status on the DNC*. If not, you > could lodge a complaint (ugh... with the CRTC); several thousand > people did just that due to Bell's telemarketing tactics. By way of > example, see > . > > * From the "Who Can Still Call You" DNC page: > > > Telemarketing calls from organizations with whom you have an existing > business relationship are also exempt. You are considered to have an > existing business relationship with a telemarketer if you: > > - Purchased, leased, or rented a product or service in the last > eighteen (18) months from the telemarketer; > - Have a written contract with the telemarketer for a service that is > still in effect or expired within the last eighteen (18) months; > and/or > - Asked a telemarketer about a product or service within the last six > (6) months. > > (The section "What can you do to reduce telemarketing calls that are > exempt from the National DNCL Rules?" may also be relevant) > > -- > ? Scott Elcomb > ? http://www.psema4.com/?? @psema4 > > ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada > ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 5 20:46:09 2011 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 15:46:09 -0500 Subject: UBB and more explained very well In-Reply-To: <2854ebf59a7c9b1a2d54ff16c0040cbd.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <2854ebf59a7c9b1a2d54ff16c0040cbd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <4D4DB711.9080604@dinamis.com> On 02/04/2011 11:29 PM, Jason Carson wrote: > I'm with TekSavvy and have a 200GB cap but I have always had the option of > switching to their unlimited service. On average I use 80GB/month and that > is with 3 people using the connection as well as running a server. > > There are two issues I have with the new UBB rules. First I would be > limited to a paltry 25GB/month, which isn't nearly enough. Second we are > being overcharged for the small amount of bandwidth we are limited too. > Bell charges $31.95 for those 25GB/month. > > According to Steve Anderson of openmedia.ca the Telecoms costs are less > than $0.01/GB (give or take) which means you are paying around $1.28/GB. > If you go over your monthly limit they charge your $1.90/GB! All this and > their cost is about a penny! Obviously they are ripping us off big time. If this issue becomes one of haggling over price, we've lost. I wish that the only problem with this "usage" based billing was the usurious pricing. You should read the Vaxination document Hugh referenced earlier to understand why. There is a wonderful analogy in that document I'll quote below which succinctly describes one of the biggest problems with UBB. Even accepting that what Bell and Rogers want is "usage" based billing plays into their hands. It's double speak of the worst kind and unfortunately, all too common coming from Bell and Rogers. "In the various proceedings since 2008, Bell Canada has consistently complained that end users of ISPs used "disproportionate" amounts of network capacity. In the 2010-803 proceeding, Bell stated that GAS end users represented 17% of total DSL users, yet generated 31% of the traffic. This statement is best explained with chocolate chip cookies. Competing cookie makers would use different amounts of chocolate chips in their recipes, some use more chips and advertise their product as a premium quality, while others may wish to offer low cost cookies with just one chip per cookie. They can differentiate their products and target different consumers. As long as the bakers pay for the amount of chocolate chips they use, there is absolutely nothing wrong with one buying twice as many chocolate chips as another to make the same number of cookies. Forcing all bakers to use the same number of chocolate chips in their cookies would go against basic competitive principles." -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 05:44:03 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 00:44:03 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Hey there, > > Anyone using GMail to receive texts on their mobile? I tried to set up > GMail to forward mail to my phone, but apparently there's an ongoing > problem. GMail sends a confirmation code and it gets cut off by the > phone because it is too long. People have been harassing Google to fix > this, it looks like, but I could not find any answer or solution. > > Anyone have this working? > Okay, clearly this method is going nowhere. Is there _any_ webmail that someone has successfully forwarded to their mobile gateway? I tried Hotmail, for some reason it's 'not supported' for Virgin Mobile, tried Yahoo but they only allow forwarding if you pay for Plus. Any other suggestions? -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 12:55:11 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 07:55:11 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D4FEBAF.4090603@rogers.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Thomas Milne > wrote: > >> Hey there, >> >> Anyone using GMail to receive texts on their mobile? I tried to set up >> GMail to forward mail to my phone, but apparently there's an ongoing >> problem. GMail sends a confirmation code and it gets cut off by the >> phone because it is too long. People have been harassing Google to fix >> this, it looks like, but I could not find any answer or solution. >> >> Anyone have this working? >> >> > Okay, clearly this method is going nowhere. > > Is there _any_ webmail that someone has successfully forwarded to > their mobile gateway? I tried Hotmail, for some reason it's 'not > supported' for Virgin Mobile, tried Yahoo but they only allow > forwarding if you pay for Plus. Any other suggestions? > > GMail certainly works well on Android devices. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 13:47:06 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:47:06 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110207134706.GA3515@yam.witteman.ca> On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 12:44:03AM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > >Is there _any_ webmail that someone has successfully forwarded to >their mobile gateway? I tried Hotmail, for some reason it's 'not >supported' for Virgin Mobile, tried Yahoo but they only allow >forwarding if you pay for Plus. Any other suggestions? I have a bunch of users accessing their Google Apps email accounts with their Blackberries or iPhones - but I'm not sure that they are forwarding, they may be just checking it directly. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 16:02:04 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 11:02:04 -0500 Subject: DDR3-1333 vs. DDR3-16000 In-Reply-To: <20110205045319.GA4107-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110205045319.GA4107@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110207160204.GG347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 04, 2011 at 11:53:19PM -0500, William Park wrote: > I have basic overclocking question... > > Most CPU specs say DDR3-1333 (i7 upto DDR3-1066), and most motherboard > specs say DDR3-1600 or higher. What's the point of using DDR3-1600 > memory when the CPU (memory controller inside) can only do DDR3-1333 ? It is officially specced by intel for one thing, but that doesn't mean things can't be overclocked. Often at 1600 you can only run one dimm per channel rather than two though, so it's a tradeoff. Also the faster ram doesn't really seem to gain anything much. > Common answer seems to be for better overclocking. But, specs for both > 2.8GHz and 3.2GHz CPUs say DDR3-1333. So, I don't get it. The memory controller can be overclocked just like the core of the CPU. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 16:04:05 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 11:04:05 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110207160405.GH347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 12:44:03AM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > Okay, clearly this method is going nowhere. > > Is there _any_ webmail that someone has successfully forwarded to > their mobile gateway? I tried Hotmail, for some reason it's 'not > supported' for Virgin Mobile, tried Yahoo but they only allow > forwarding if you pay for Plus. Any other suggestions? I just use the gmail client app to read my mail on my phone. Of course that doesn't send me notifications about new email but I never considered that an issue. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 16:22:09 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 11:22:09 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: <20110207160405.GH347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110207160405.GH347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4D501C31.2030702@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I just use the gmail client app to read my mail on my phone. Of course > that doesn't send me notifications about new email but I never considered > that an issue. I have GMail set up on my Nexus One. It beeps whenever I get new email. There is also notification in the status bar. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 16:36:39 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 11:36:39 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: <4D501C31.2030702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110207160405.GH347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D501C31.2030702@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110207163639.GI347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 11:22:09AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > I have GMail set up on my Nexus One. It beeps whenever I get new email. > There is also notification in the status bar. Well I only have a dumb phone, so gmail only runs when I explicitly run it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 17:57:46 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 12:57:46 -0500 Subject: Looking for a Speaker for tomorrows GTALUG meeting Message-ID: The Speaker for tomorrows GTALUG meeting has called in sick. Would anyone like to setup to the plate? Or we could do a round of short talks. -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 19:32:34 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 14:32:34 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: <20110207163639.GI347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110207160405.GH347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D501C31.2030702@rogers.com> <20110207163639.GI347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 7 February 2011 11:36, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 11:22:09AM -0500, James Knott wrote: >> I have GMail set up on my Nexus One. ?It beeps whenever I get new email. >> There is also notification in the status bar. > > Well I only have a dumb phone, so gmail only runs when I explicitly > run it. Hmm, I thought any phone that you can install gmail client would be considered a smart phone? By the way, I get a feeling Thomas was attempting to forward gmail emails to his phone as SMS. I get that idea as that is the only way the carrier can control the length of the text. If its purely IP, I think that is outside the control of your carrier Virgin. If its true you are attempting to send an email to the phone as text, the problem is not on google end but mostly something to do with your carrier. That would mean any alternative webmail service will encounter the same problem. Thomas, If I have misread this, would you mind explaining what you mean by mobile gateway please? William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 19:59:30 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 14:59:30 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: <20110207160405.GH347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D501C31.2030702@rogers.com> <20110207163639.GI347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110207195930.GJ347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 02:32:34PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > Hmm, I thought any phone that you can install gmail client would be > considered a smart phone? Nope. Any phone that can run a java app can run the small gmail client. That doesn't make it a smart phone. Still only has a WAP browser after all. > By the way, I get a feeling Thomas was attempting to forward gmail > emails to his phone as SMS. I get that idea as that is the only way > the carrier can control the length of the text. If its purely IP, I > think that is outside the control of your carrier Virgin. > > If its true you are attempting to send an email to the phone as text, > the problem is not on google end but mostly something to do with your > carrier. That would mean any alternative webmail service will > encounter the same problem. > > Thomas, If I have misread this, would you mind explaining what you > mean by mobile gateway please? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 20:07:36 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 15:07:36 -0500 Subject: Smart Phone sales Message-ID: Hi This is an interesting article. What I found interesting is the profit graph at the bottom. Seem like Apple is getting half of the smart phones profit share. That is despite selling only half of the android volume. Since a non subsidized iphone cost $700 and most of the android phones cost $550 to $700, -Not a big price difference, it imply Apple manufacturing process may be far more efficient. Its kind of odd, how they pull that out as all manufacture their phones from China. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2011/02/android_topples_symb.html The android market size also has another implication. Its now highly likely that WebM may actually get entrenched at the expense of H.264 Anyway, just thought it may be of interest to you Regards, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 20:31:26 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 12:31:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: Flash Video -- help! Message-ID: <59232.53834.qm@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> To those who are watching Flash Video without any problem, I'd appreciate some insights and pointers! My problem: Flash Video is slightly choppy at full screen. My monitor is 1600x1200, so I guess the full screen video is 1600x900. What I have: - Athlon II X2 260 (dual-core, 3.2GHz, 2MB) - nVidia GeForce 8500 - Firefox 4 (beta) - Adobe Flash Player 64-bit "square" preview version - kernel 2.6.37 (x86_64, SMP, preemptive) What I want: Smooth Flash Video at full screen. What should I do? 1. Should I upgrade the video card to GeForce 430 ? I borrowed GeForce 250, and did see some improvement but not that much. GeForce 430 is advertised to be better at "multimedia" things. 2. Should I get a whole new computer? Eg. i7-870 quad-core which goes up to 3.6GHz, assuming Turbo Boost works. My current computer is already 3.2GHz dual-core, so I don't think similar i3/i5 will bring a substantial speedup. Then, again, may be they might. I don't know. Any advice will be appreciated. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 21:30:46 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 16:30:46 -0500 Subject: Smart Phone sales In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110207213046.GK347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 03:07:36PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > This is an interesting article. What I found interesting is the > profit graph at the bottom. Seem like Apple is getting half of the > smart phones profit share. That is despite selling only half of the > android volume. Since a non subsidized iphone cost $700 and most of > the android phones cost $550 to $700, -Not a big price difference, it > imply Apple manufacturing process may be far more efficient. Its kind > of odd, how they pull that out as all manufacture their phones from > China. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2011/02/android_topples_symb.html If apple sells 1 million units of one model, that distributes the development costs of the circuit board, custom connectors, case molds, etc, as well as getting nice volume discounts on the screen and such. If 2 million android phones are sold, but is spread of 20 models, each one only has 100000 units to distribute those same costs over. That's not nearly as profitable in the end. The android phones may well turn smartphones into a commodity. Commodities are not where you make huge profits however. > The android market size also has another implication. Its now highly > likely that WebM may actually get entrenched at the expense of H.264 But apple and Microsoft have H.264 patent royalties to worry about (customer interest doesn't matter nearly as much of course). > Anyway, just thought it may be of interest to you -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 21:35:14 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 16:35:14 -0500 Subject: Flash Video -- help! In-Reply-To: <59232.53834.qm-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <59232.53834.qm@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110207213514.GL347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 12:31:26PM -0800, William Park wrote: > To those who are watching Flash Video without any problem, I'd appreciate some > insights and pointers! > > My problem: > > Flash Video is slightly choppy at full screen. My monitor is 1600x1200, > so I guess the full screen video is 1600x900. > > What I have: > > - Athlon II X2 260 (dual-core, 3.2GHz, 2MB) > - nVidia GeForce 8500 > - Firefox 4 (beta) > - Adobe Flash Player 64-bit "square" preview version > - kernel 2.6.37 (x86_64, SMP, preemptive) > > What I want: > > Smooth Flash Video at full screen. > > What should I do? Get hardware accaleration for video playback in flash. Adobe claims to be working on adding vdpau support, but who knows if/when that will happen. > 1. Should I upgrade the video card to GeForce 430 ? I borrowed GeForce > 250, and did see some improvement but not that much. GeForce 430 is advertised > to be better at "multimedia" things. I highly doubt that matters. > 2. Should I get a whole new computer? Eg. i7-870 quad-core which goes > up to 3.6GHz, assuming Turbo Boost works. My current computer is already 3.2GHz > dual-core, so I don't think similar i3/i5 will bring a substantial speedup. > Then, again, may be they might. I don't know. I doubt it. Adobe flash is simply shit, especially on Linux. > Any advice will be appreciated. Well the simplest method is: Run windows, it has hardware accaleration in flash. Since that's not what you want, well, there may not be much you can do. Now assuming you aren't wasting CPU on tons of other crap, I am actually surprised it can't handle that. I can run a 24" 1920x1200 screen externally on my laptop and get smooth flash (as long as I kill firefox regularly to clean up the crappiness in it), and I only hafve a Core 2 Duo 2ghz in the laptop, and a geforce 105M video chip. I run the nvidia binary drivers, but I don't believe flash takes any advantage of that yet. I don't use full screen flash very often, so maybe it isn't always smooth. Maybe the higher res videos would be a problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 21:35:52 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 16:35:52 -0500 Subject: Flash Video -- help! In-Reply-To: <59232.53834.qm-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <59232.53834.qm@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110207213552.GA4130@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 12:31:26PM -0800, William Park wrote > 1. Should I upgrade the video card to GeForce 430 ? > I borrowed GeForce 250, and did see some improvement but not that > much. GeForce 430 is advertised to be better at "multimedia" things. > > 2. Should I get a whole new computer? Eg. i7-870 quad-core > which goes up to 3.6GHz, assuming Turbo Boost works. My current > computer is already 3.2GHz dual-core, so I don't think similar i3/i5 > will bring a substantial speedup. Before you buy anything new, make sure you're using your current gear to its max. I had issues recently getting live HDTV 1920x1080 streams from my HDHomerun tuner to play smoothly on my notebook. The problem is most likely in your implementation of drivers for your card. In my case, it involved loading the firmware blob for the Radeon chip. And I can now follow live HDTV on the laptop. First step is to plow through your... 1) bootup logfile /var/log/dmesg 2) X session startup logfile /var/log/Xorg.0.log file ...and look for problems. If you're unsure, try file-attaching the log files so we can pore over them. While we're at it; if someone could point me to a comprehensible explanation/tutorial on how to set up MTRR, I would greatly appreciate it. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 7 23:15:05 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 15:15:05 -0800 Subject: Smart Phone sales In-Reply-To: <20110207213046.GK347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110207213046.GK347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: However, with the large part of OS development being done by google, the actual phone manufacturers only have to worry about hardware, and possibly drivers On 2011-02-07 1:31 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 03:07:36PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: >> This is an interesting article. What I found interesting is the >> profit graph at the bottom. Seem like Apple is getting half of the >> smart phones profit share. That is despite selling only half of the >> android volume. Since a non subsidized iphone cost $700 and most of >> the android phones cost $550 to $700, -Not a big price difference, it >> imply Apple manufacturing process may be far more efficient. Its kind >> of odd, how they pull that out as all manufacture their phones from >> China. >> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2011/02/android_topples_symb.html > > If apple sells 1 million units of one model, that distributes the > development costs of the circuit board, custom connectors, case molds, > etc, as well as getting nice volume discounts on the screen and such. > > If 2 million android phones are sold, but is spread of 20 models, > each one only has 100000 units to distribute those same costs over. > That's not nearly as profitable in the end. The android phones may well > turn smartphones into a commodity. Commodities are not where you make > huge profits however. > >> The android market size also has another implication. Its now highly >> likely that WebM may actually get entrenched at the expense of H.264 > > But apple and Microsoft have H.264 patent royalties to worry about > (customer interest doesn't matter nearly as much of course). > >> Anyway, just thought it may be of interest to you > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 00:36:04 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 19:36:04 -0500 Subject: Flash Video -- help! In-Reply-To: <20110207213552.GA4130-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <59232.53834.qm@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20110207213552.GA4130@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110208003604.GM347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 04:35:52PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > Before you buy anything new, make sure you're using your current gear > to its max. I had issues recently getting live HDTV 1920x1080 streams > from my HDHomerun tuner to play smoothly on my notebook. The problem is > most likely in your implementation of drivers for your card. In my > case, it involved loading the firmware blob for the Radeon chip. And I > can now follow live HDTV on the laptop. First step is to plow through > your... > > 1) bootup logfile /var/log/dmesg > > 2) X session startup logfile /var/log/Xorg.0.log file > > ...and look for problems. If you're unsure, try file-attaching the log > files so we can pore over them. > > While we're at it; if someone could point me to a comprehensible > explanation/tutorial on how to set up MTRR, I would greatly appreciate > it. You don't. The MTRR is obsolete. Modern CPUs use PATs instead. You should have no reason to mess with that manually. It should just work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 00:36:38 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 19:36:38 -0500 Subject: Smart Phone sales In-Reply-To: References: <20110207213046.GK347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110208003638.GN347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 03:15:05PM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: > However, with the large part of OS development being done by google, the > actual phone manufacturers only have to worry about hardware, and possibly > drivers Sure, but that's probably a minor issue cost wise. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 01:44:20 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:44:20 -0500 Subject: WARNING: Debian 6.0 aka: Squeeze is now out Message-ID: For those who want to see a lot of time vaporize, Debian 6.0 aka: Squeeze has been released, and yes, I will have some first impressions available at tomorrow's GTALug meeting... Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 03:05:29 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:05:29 -0500 Subject: Get Well Soon. Message-ID: Scott, I hope and trust that I speak for everyone on the GTALug board mailing list when I say "Get Well Soon". Also, can we put you down for doing your Plan 9 talk in April? Thanks. Again, all the best and I hope to hear your feeling better soon. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 11:54:47 2011 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 06:54:47 -0500 Subject: Flash Video -- help! In-Reply-To: <20110207213514.GL347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <59232.53834.qm@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20110207213514.GL347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 7 February 2011 16:35, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I can run a 24" 1920x1200 screen externally on my laptop and get smooth flash [...] Do you think it would still run smoothly on, say, a 27" 1920x1200 screen? ;-) -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 12:59:06 2011 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 07:59:06 -0500 Subject: Flash Video -- help! In-Reply-To: <59232.53834.qm-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <59232.53834.qm@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Are you using the NV or nvidia drivers? I find that the stock NV driver isn't very good. Use the one from nvidia.com or if you are on fedora or CentOS, grab it from atrpms. On Feb 7, 2011 3:31 PM, "William Park" wrote: > To those who are watching Flash Video without any problem, I'd appreciate some > insights and pointers! > > My problem: > > Flash Video is slightly choppy at full screen. My monitor is 1600x1200, > so I guess the full screen video is 1600x900. > > What I have: > > - Athlon II X2 260 (dual-core, 3.2GHz, 2MB) > - nVidia GeForce 8500 > - Firefox 4 (beta) > - Adobe Flash Player 64-bit "square" preview version > - kernel 2.6.37 (x86_64, SMP, preemptive) > > What I want: > > Smooth Flash Video at full screen. > > What should I do? > > 1. Should I upgrade the video card to GeForce 430 ? I borrowed GeForce > 250, and did see some improvement but not that much. GeForce 430 is advertised > to be better at "multimedia" things. > > 2. Should I get a whole new computer? Eg. i7-870 quad-core which goes > up to 3.6GHz, assuming Turbo Boost works. My current computer is already 3.2GHz > dual-core, so I don't think similar i3/i5 will bring a substantial speedup. > Then, again, may be they might. I don't know. > > Any advice will be appreciated. > -- > William > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 14:48:09 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 06:48:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Flash Video -- help! In-Reply-To: References: <59232.53834.qm@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <639239.28975.qm@web113409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I'm using binary driver from nvidia.com. I'm told that my GeForce 8500GT may be suspect, so I'll upgrade to GeForce GTS450 and see. Anything more will require new power supply, motherboard, and ram, which I want to reserve for SandyBridge. -- William > >From: Ijaaz A. Ullah >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 7:59:06 AM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Flash Video -- help! > > >Are you using the NV or nvidia drivers? I find that the stock NV driver isn't >very good. Use the one from nvidia.com or if you are on fedora or CentOS, grab >it from atrpms. >On Feb 7, 2011 3:31 PM, "William Park" wrote: >> To those who are watching Flash Video without any problem, I'd appreciate some > >> insights and pointers! >> >> My problem: >> >> Flash Video is slightly choppy at full screen. My monitor is >>1600x1200, >> >> so I guess the full screen video is 1600x900. >> >> What I have: >> >> - Athlon II X2 260 (dual-core, 3.2GHz, 2MB) >> - nVidia GeForce 8500 >> - Firefox 4 (beta) >> - Adobe Flash Player 64-bit "square" preview version >> - kernel 2.6.37 (x86_64, SMP, preemptive) >> >> What I want: >> >> Smooth Flash Video at full screen. >> >> What should I do? >> >> 1. Should I upgrade the video card to GeForce 430 ? I borrowed GeForce >> >> 250, and did see some improvement but not that much. GeForce 430 is advertised >> >> to be better at "multimedia" things. >> >> 2. Should I get a whole new computer? Eg. i7-870 quad-core which goes > >> up to 3.6GHz, assuming Turbo Boost works. My current computer is already >>3.2GHz >> >> dual-core, so I don't think similar i3/i5 will bring a substantial speedup. >> Then, again, may be they might. I don't know. >> >> Any advice will be appreciated. >> -- >> William >> >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 16:03:30 2011 From: andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:03:30 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Thomas Milne wrote > > Anyone using GMail to receive texts on their mobile? I tried to set up > GMail to forward mail to my phone, ... I'm trying to replicate this but don't see where exactly you enable SMS forwarding. I looked at the 'Forwarding and POP/IMAP' tab in the Gmail settings and see the option to select an email address to forward to but nothing about SMS. I also looked through the 'create filter' screens. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 16:16:02 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:16:02 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gmail doesn't support forwarding to SMS persay. You have to forward to your SMS's gateway email address which is different per service. [10digitnumber]@txt.bell.ca [10digitnumber]@pcs.rogers.com [10digitnumber]@fido.ca It may cost some extra money to do this. --- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org On 2011-02-08, at 11:03 AM, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Thomas Milne > wrote >> >> Anyone using GMail to receive texts on their mobile? I tried to set up >> GMail to forward mail to my phone, ... > > I'm trying to replicate this but don't see where exactly you enable > SMS forwarding. I looked at the 'Forwarding and POP/IMAP' tab in the > Gmail settings and see the option to select an email address to > forward to but nothing about SMS. I also looked through the 'create > filter' screens. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 16:16:44 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:16:44 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D516C6C.404@rogers.com> Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Thomas Milne > wrote > >> Anyone using GMail to receive texts on their mobile? I tried to set up >> GMail to forward mail to my phone, ... >> > I'm trying to replicate this but don't see where exactly you enable > SMS forwarding. I looked at the 'Forwarding and POP/IMAP' tab in the > Gmail settings and see the option to select an email address to > forward to but nothing about SMS. I also looked through the 'create > filter' screens. > You can often email to SMS. For example, with Rogers, you'd send the email to @pcs.rogers.com (IIRC). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 16:52:55 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:52:55 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D5174E7.10408@rogers.com> Myles Braithwaite wrote: > It may cost some extra money to do this. One thing I've noticed with Rogers is they send you a message advising that the SMS is available. Since that message also identifies the source, I don't bother receiving the SMS message, so no charge. I use this to be notified of voice mail on my home phone. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 17:57:10 2011 From: andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 12:57:10 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: <4D5174E7.10408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5174E7.10408@rogers.com> Message-ID: @Myles & James: Thanks, email sending from Gmail to @pcs.rogers.com works for me. For some reason triggering forwarding using a filter doesn't but that's for another day. @Thomas: I didn't have any issues with the confirmation code. It was only 8 characters long. On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 11:52 AM, James Knott wrote: > Myles Braithwaite wrote: >> >> It may cost some extra money to do this. > > One thing I've noticed with Rogers is they send you a message advising that > the SMS is available. ?Since that message also identifies the source, I > don't bother receiving the SMS message, so no charge. ?I use this to be > notified of voice mail on my home phone. FYI: you can ask Rogers tech to disable the notifications so you get the emails directly. Most people won't want this unless you're sure your emails are short! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 18:39:41 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:39:41 -0500 Subject: Flash Video -- help! In-Reply-To: <59232.53834.qm-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <59232.53834.qm@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 3:31 PM, William Park wrote: > > To those who are watching Flash Video without any problem, I'd appreciate some > insights and pointers! > > My problem: > > ? ? ? ?Flash Video is slightly choppy at full screen. ?My monitor is 1600x1200, > so I guess the ?full screen video is 1600x900. Do you have compositing enabled? I have a slow video card (a 7300, was the cheapest dual DVI card at the time) and I've had problems in the past with choppy fullscreen Flash in conjunction with compositing. The ultimate fix for me, with anything flash-related, is to download the video file and play it in *any* video player. CPU usage goes from obscene to negligible, even with compositing, and standalone video players don't crash like flash does. I have a different problem with fullscreen flash, though: many flash-based video players, like Youtube's, don't actually scale the video to fullscreen anymore. I haven't bothered investigating it; maybe flash hates twinview... Some players still get it right, though. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 18:35:28 2011 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 21:35:28 +0300 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D518CF0.1030505@gmail.com> On 08/02/11 07:16 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Gmail doesn't support forwarding to SMS persay. You have to forward to your SMS's gateway email address which is different per service. > > [10digitnumber]@txt.bell.ca > [10digitnumber]@pcs.rogers.com > [10digitnumber]@fido.ca To what an extend this is reliable? Did anything change? When I worked about 2 years ago as a software developer (a sort of commercial web site - service, for the use of a broad community) we wanted to use SMS notifications. But that worked horribly. The web site was planned to be used by US and Canadians. So many internet providers. Some SMS addresses change without notice. Some do not work at all as advertised. We had also a big problem with Rogers as well. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 22:25:51 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:25:51 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, this is what I was trying to do. Unfortunately, GMail has blundered this one HUGE. What they did is implement a security feature where they send a confirmation code to your phone. Unfortunately, the code comes _after_ the 140 character limit on SMS messages. Pure, unadulterated stupidity, which they have known about for at least a year. GMail and Google forums are replete with people begging them to fix it, to no avail. Yahoo charges a fee to forward to SMS (???), and Hotmail for some reason supports every provider except Virgin. God forbid they just let you forward to the SMS email gateway manually, but you know Microsoft. So far I have not been able to find anyone who will forward to SMS without some kind of insane hassle. Facebook will begin it's e-mail messaging system soon, and they easily forward to SMS. I'll just use that. I'm certainly not going to pay 10 or 15 dollars a month for a data plan just so I can get a few e-mails. On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Gmail doesn't support forwarding to SMS persay. You have to forward to your SMS's gateway email address which is different per service. > > [10digitnumber]@txt.bell.ca > [10digitnumber]@pcs.rogers.com > [10digitnumber]@fido.ca > > It may cost some extra money to do this. > > --- > Myles Braithwaite > http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > > On 2011-02-08, at 11:03 AM, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > >> On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Thomas Milne >> wrote >>> >>> Anyone using GMail to receive texts on their mobile? I tried to set up >>> GMail to forward mail to my phone, ... >> >> I'm trying to replicate this but don't see where exactly you enable >> SMS forwarding. ?I looked at the 'Forwarding and POP/IMAP' tab in the >> Gmail settings and see the option to select an email address to >> forward to but nothing about SMS. ?I also looked through the 'create >> filter' screens. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 22:19:58 2011 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:19:58 -0500 Subject: High Speed ISP chart Message-ID: <6CA9DAC4-8C86-4E35-ADAE-CBF3B16F5D87@sarg.ryerson.ca> This might be of interest to some. http://themeter.ca/ It raises the question of whether anyone has experience with http://www.acanac.ca/ Thanks ../Dave-- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 8 22:30:06 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:30:06 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: <4D5174E7.10408@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > @Myles & James: ?Thanks, email sending from Gmail to number>@pcs.rogers.com works for me. ?For some reason triggering > forwarding using a filter doesn't but that's for another day. > > @Thomas: I didn't have any issues with the confirmation code. ?It was > only 8 characters long. Yeah but it comes _after_ the 140 character limit, so it's impossible to retrieve. If you know of some other way to retrieve the code, there are about ten thousand GMail users who would very much like to know it. Some people claim that there was some way to get it to show up in the subject line, but even then you only get the first five numbers. Seriously, check it out: http://tinyurl.com/6jzga2y > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 11:52 AM, James Knott wrote: >> Myles Braithwaite wrote: >>> >>> It may cost some extra money to do this. >> >> One thing I've noticed with Rogers is they send you a message advising that >> the SMS is available. ?Since that message also identifies the source, I >> don't bother receiving the SMS message, so no charge. ?I use this to be >> notified of voice mail on my home phone. > > FYI: ?you can ask Rogers tech to disable the notifications so you get > the emails directly. ? Most people won't want this unless you're sure > your emails are short! > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 03:05:46 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:05:46 -0500 Subject: High Speed ISP chart In-Reply-To: <6CA9DAC4-8C86-4E35-ADAE-CBF3B16F5D87-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <6CA9DAC4-8C86-4E35-ADAE-CBF3B16F5D87@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4D52048A.8090000@ve3syb.ca> Dave Mason wrote: > http://themeter.ca/ Some of the information in that table is inaccurate or out of date. In the case of Rogers, if you exceed your monthly transfer limit there is a cap on the maximum amount you pay above the monthly fee. Makes it a bit harder to use the information they provide as it brings its accuracy in to question. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 03:21:55 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 22:21:55 -0500 Subject: High Speed ISP chart In-Reply-To: <4D52048A.8090000-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <6CA9DAC4-8C86-4E35-ADAE-CBF3B16F5D87@sarg.ryerson.ca> <4D52048A.8090000@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: yeah, i noticed that too, my rogers is 55$ for 95GB, 1$/gb extra, capped at 50$ (max extra), and of course with rogers you get 5% off if you also have cable tv with them, 10% if have rogers mobile, and 15% if all that and home phone, so really I don't have any complaints, its cheap, and fast (but not so reliable as I am out in the sticks, get maybe four 4 hour outages a year, many related to weather). (in oakville i had maybe 2 hours of outage a year on average). tl On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Dave Mason wrote: >> >> http://themeter.ca/ > > Some of the information in that table is inaccurate or out of date. In the > case of Rogers, if you exceed your monthly transfer limit there is a cap on > the maximum amount you pay above the monthly fee. Makes it a bit harder to > use the information they provide as it brings its accuracy in to question. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 05:15:18 2011 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 00:15:18 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D5222E6.6000402@dinamis.com> On 02/08/2011 05:25 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Yahoo charges a fee to forward to SMS (???), and Hotmail for some > reason supports every provider except Virgin. God forbid they just > let you forward to the SMS email gateway manually, but you know > Microsoft. So far I have not been able to find anyone who will > forward to SMS without some kind of insane hassle. > > Facebook will begin it's e-mail messaging system soon, and they > easily forward to SMS. I'll just use that. I'm certainly not going to > pay 10 or 15 dollars a month for a data plan just so I can get a few > e-mails. FYI: WIND Mobile doesn't have an email to SMS gateway, apparently. I don't care about that but judging by the complaints on their forums, many people do. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 13:19:37 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 08:19:37 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: <4D5222E6.6000402-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5222E6.6000402@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 12:15 AM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 02/08/2011 05:25 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> Yahoo charges a fee to forward to SMS (???), and Hotmail for some >> reason supports every provider except Virgin. God forbid they just >> let you forward to the SMS email gateway manually, but you know >> Microsoft. So far I have not been able to find anyone who will >> forward to SMS without some kind of insane hassle. >> >> Facebook will begin it's e-mail messaging system soon, and they >> easily forward to SMS. I'll just use that. I'm certainly not going to >> pay 10 or 15 dollars a month for a data plan just so I can get a few >> e-mails. > > FYI: WIND Mobile doesn't have an email to SMS gateway, apparently. I don't > care about that but judging by the complaints on their forums, many people > do. If I believed in conspiracies, I would be suspicious that these companies were trying to encourage people to move away from using SMS to using the web and data plans that are 5 times as expensive ;) -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 15:14:56 2011 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 10:14:56 -0500 Subject: More on Bandwidth Caps Message-ID: <67d3c18c4dbc96064bd5f987f2c3f53a.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/tech-news/ubb-internet/ paying-so-much-for-bandwidth-getting-so-little/article1899506/ -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevjmorris-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 15:52:17 2011 From: kevjmorris-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Kevin Morris) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 10:52:17 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router Message-ID: Hi, My current wireless router is acting up, lots of dropped connections, very frustrating, can't wait to take a hammer to it :) Any suggestions/recommendations for a good wireless router for home use in a condo that is about 1000 sq feet. Cheers Kevin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 16:26:50 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 11:26:50 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Kevin Morris wrote: > Hi, > > My current wireless router is acting up, lots of dropped connections, very > frustrating, can't wait to take a hammer to it :) > > Any suggestions/recommendations for a good wireless router for home use in a > condo that is about 1000 sq feet. > > Cheers > Kevin Well, given the group your on, honor sort of demands that you be pointed at routers that can run some of the projects listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wireless_router_firmware_projects In my case I am running Tomato Linux (http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato) on one of the old (pre-version 5) Linksys WRT54G routers. I am happy with the combination I have. If I were shopping for new hardware right now, I would if money was tight go for a Linksys WRT54GL. If money wasn't so tight I would look at dual band Linux supporting routers, some of which are listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linksys_routers . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 16:28:19 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 11:28:19 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D52C0A3.9090404@gmail.com> TP-Link TL-WR1043ND http://canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_365&item_id=026991 8MB Flash, 32MB Ram, 4x Gigabit Ports, 1x Usb 2.0; well supported by OpenWRT and reflashes pretty easily. http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/tl-wr1043nd?s[]=tl&s[]=wr1043nd And if you want to boost the signal a little, you can always add these: http://canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_359&item_id=026201 Alex. On 09/02/11 10:52 AM, Kevin Morris wrote: > Hi, > > My current wireless router is acting up, lots of dropped connections, > very frustrating, can't wait to take a hammer to it :) > > Any suggestions/recommendations for a good wireless router for home > use in a condo that is about 1000 sq feet. > > Cheers > Kevin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 16:36:13 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 11:36:13 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110209163613.GO347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 11:26:50AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Well, given the group your on, honor sort of demands that you be > pointed at routers that can run some of the projects listed here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wireless_router_firmware_projects > > In my case I am running Tomato Linux > (http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato) on one of the old (pre-version 5) > Linksys WRT54G routers. I am happy with the combination I have. If I > were shopping for new hardware right now, I would if money was tight > go for a Linksys WRT54GL. If money wasn't so tight I would look at > dual band Linux supporting routers, some of which are listed here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linksys_routers . I love my Dlink DIR-825. Runs way cooler than any linksys I have ever used, and has very nice hardware in it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 16:48:40 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 11:48:40 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <20110209163613.GO347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110209163613.GO347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4D52C568.3060606@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I love my Dlink DIR-825. Runs way cooler than any linksys I have ever > used, and has very nice hardware in it. > It also supports IPv6 and runs GPL code (Linux?). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 16:52:22 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 11:52:22 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <4D52C568.3060606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110209163613.GO347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D52C568.3060606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110209165222.GP347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 11:48:40AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> I love my Dlink DIR-825. Runs way cooler than any linksys I have ever >> used, and has very nice hardware in it. >> > > It also supports IPv6 and runs GPL code (Linux?). It's Linux (the rev B that is) and openwrt (and others) support it. Dual band, 680Mhz MIPS 24k CPU, 64MB ram, 8MB flash, USB 2.0 as far as I recall. I don't remember if it does IPv6, but I think it actually might. The latest firmware mentions fixing 6in4 tunnel support, so I guess it should. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 17:02:27 2011 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 12:02:27 -0500 Subject: Embedded videos Message-ID: I'd love to know what causes embedded videos videos to crash Firefox and crash the video plug-in nspluginviewer in Konqueror. Example sites: Right now, http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ It does not seem to be Youtube videos that are causing this. I notice it with CNN videos - I've had CNN's website crash Firefox and crash the video plug-in in Konqueror. They don't crash Konqueror itself, just the plug-in. Anyone else experiencing this? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 17:05:45 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 12:05:45 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <20110209165222.GP347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110209163613.GO347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D52C568.3060606@rogers.com> <20110209165222.GP347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4D52C969.9050203@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I don't remember if it does IPv6, but I think it actually might. > The latest firmware mentions fixing 6in4 tunnel support, so I guess > it should. > According to the manual, it does support IPv6. It supports a variety of methods to get IPv6 to it, even if not directly supported by the ISP. Those methods include 6in4 tunnelling, 6to4 tunnelling and PPPoE. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 17:06:18 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 09:06:18 -0800 Subject: Embedded videos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I rarely have crash issues in FF since a 64-bit native plugin came out, but nspluginviewer used to die frequently. CPU-pegging can still be an issue though. On 2011-02-09 9:02 AM, "Gary Layng" wrote: > I'd love to know what causes embedded videos videos to crash Firefox and crash > the video plug-in nspluginviewer in Konqueror. > > Example sites: Right now, http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ > > It does not seem to be Youtube videos that are causing this. I notice it with > CNN videos - I've had CNN's website crash Firefox and crash the video plug-in > in Konqueror. > > They don't crash Konqueror itself, just the plug-in. > > Anyone else experiencing this? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew.henriquez-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 17:51:25 2011 From: andrew.henriquez-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrew Henriquez) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 13:51:25 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Kevin, Before buying a new one check out: http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/index and see if you can salvage your current router. Andrew On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Kevin Morris wrote: > Hi, > > My current wireless router is acting up, lots of dropped connections, very > frustrating, can't wait to take a hammer to it :) > > Any suggestions/recommendations for a good wireless router for home use in > a condo that is about 1000 sq feet. > > Cheers > Kevin > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 18:15:37 2011 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 13:15:37 -0500 Subject: OT: Paying so much for bandwidth, getting so little - The Globe and Mail Message-ID: <4D52D9C9.7090500@gmail.com> Interesting commentary on Bell's UBB. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/tech-news/ubb-internet/paying-so-much-for-bandwidth-getting-so-little/article1899506/ BTW, UBB stands for, wait for it... Unbelievable Business Baloney!!! Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 9 19:15:38 2011 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:15:38 -0500 Subject: OT: Paying so much for bandwidth, getting so little - The Globe and Mail In-Reply-To: <4D52D9C9.7090500-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4D52D9C9.7090500@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4c814776cb35c66cfaf58c2946d48087.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> The CRTC is accepting comments on this issue here... https://services.crtc.gc.ca/pub/instances-proceedings/Default.aspx?Status=Open&PubArea=Tel&PubType=NofConsul&PubSubType=All&Lang=eng > Interesting commentary on Bell's UBB. > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/tech-news/ubb-internet/paying-so-much-for-bandwidth-getting-so-little/article1899506/ > > BTW, UBB stands for, wait for it... Unbelievable Business Baloney!!! > > Ivan. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ss-tWm8UfAypx3iB9QmIjCX8w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 01:16:31 2011 From: ss-tWm8UfAypx3iB9QmIjCX8w at public.gmane.org (Sadiq S) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 20:16:31 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D533C6F.5030209@sadiqs.info> DD-WRT is really nice. I replaced the stock Linksys firmware on my WRT160N with DD-WRT. Runs very smoothly. That said, as suggested before I would look for routers that support various other firmwares (Tomato, OpenWRT, DD-WRT etc.) Regards, Sadiq S On 9-02-11 12:51 PM, Andrew Henriquez wrote: > Hello Kevin, > > Before buying a new one check out: > http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/index and see if you can salvage your > current router. > > Andrew > > On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Kevin Morris > wrote: > > Hi, > > My current wireless router is acting up, lots of dropped > connections, very frustrating, can't wait to take a hammer to it :) > > Any suggestions/recommendations for a good wireless router for > home use in a condo that is about 1000 sq feet. > > Cheers > Kevin > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 01:19:49 2011 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 20:19:49 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <4D533C6F.5030209-tWm8UfAypx3iB9QmIjCX8w@public.gmane.org> References: <4D533C6F.5030209@sadiqs.info> Message-ID: I have the Fonera 2.0N router and with their latest firmware it's really solid and works great. http://corp.fon.com/en/products/ -jason On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Sadiq S wrote: > DD-WRT is really nice. I replaced the stock Linksys firmware on my WRT160N with DD-WRT. Runs very smoothly. > > That said, as suggested before I would look for routers that support various other firmwares (Tomato, OpenWRT, DD-WRT etc.) > > Regards, > Sadiq S > > > On 9-02-11 12:51 PM, Andrew Henriquez wrote: > > Hello Kevin, > > Before buying a new one check out: http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/index and > see if you can salvage your current router. > > Andrew > > On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Kevin Morris wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> My current wireless router is acting up, lots of dropped connections, very >> frustrating, can't wait to take a hammer to it :) >> >> Any suggestions/recommendations for a good wireless router for home use in >> a condo that is about 1000 sq feet. >> >> Cheers >> Kevin >> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 02:54:51 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 21:54:51 -0500 Subject: Git & OpenDocument Message-ID: <4D53537B.60100@gmail.com> Hello everyone, A follow up on a question raised yesterday -- diffs on open office documents. After a quick googling I found a solution: * Install odt2txt package * add following lines to ~/.gitconfig [diff "odf"] textconv=odt2txt * add following lines to .gitattributes or $GIT_DIR/info/attributes *.ods diff=odf *.odt diff=odf *.odp diff=odf And you're done. Formatting looks a bit interesting and a line of text shows up in 'git diff' only if it is followed by an empty line, but generally it works. Source: http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/opendocument/ Alex. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-+oaQStku59NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 02:47:18 2011 From: hugh-+oaQStku59NWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Hugh Gamble) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 21:47:18 -0500 Subject: Linux phones challenge RIM as #2 behind Symbian In-Reply-To: References: <4D533C6F.5030209@sadiqs.info> Message-ID: <015501cbc8cc$d66025a0$832070e0$@com> http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Gartner-IDC-and-ComScore-4Q-smartpho ne-reports/?kc=LNXDEVNL020911 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 15:03:37 2011 From: andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:03:37 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: References: <4D533C6F.5030209@sadiqs.info> Message-ID: OpenWRT's Buyer's Guide with popular devices at the bottom: http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/toh/buyerguide -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 15:17:38 2011 From: redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (dave jackson) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 07:17:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event Message-ID: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> -come& get 'em tlugers! cheers, dj http://www.thinkpadtoday.com/1000-thinkpad-canada-coupon-code-employee-pricing-event.htm To cash in on these unbelievable deals just use this ThinkPad L Series Coupon Code, ThinkPad T Series Coupon Code, ThinkPad X201 Coupon Code or this ThinkPad W Series Coupon Code. References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D540257.6060407@alteeve.com> On 02/10/2011 10:17 AM, dave jackson wrote: > -come& get 'em tlugers! > cheers, > dj > > > http://www.thinkpadtoday.com/1000-thinkpad-canada-coupon-code-employee-pricing-event.htm > > To cash in on these unbelievable deals just use this ThinkPad L Series Coupon Code, ThinkPad T Series Coupon Code, ThinkPad X201 Coupon Code or this ThinkPad W Series Coupon Code. > > > This Lenovo Employee Pricing Event expires February 13, 2011. > > Use the ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code CAPEMPLOYEEPRICINGEVENT at checkout. Can anyone vouch for Dave? Name isn't familiar to me, and I'm catching a wiff of spam. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 15:45:08 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:45:08 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: <4D540257.6060407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D540257.6060407@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4D540804.4030600@utoronto.ca> On 02/10/2011 10:20 AM, Digimer wrote: > Can anyone vouch for Dave? Name isn't familiar to me, and I'm catching a > wiff of spam. Coupon works when I try configuring a T410s. Doesn't stack with anything else though, but that is normal. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 15:46:46 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:46:46 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: <4D540804.4030600-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D540257.6060407@alteeve.com> <4D540804.4030600@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Hmm.. What is everyone's opinion of the X201? Is this legit? On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 02/10/2011 10:20 AM, Digimer wrote: > > Can anyone vouch for Dave? Name isn't familiar to me, and I'm catching a > > wiff of spam. > > Coupon works when I try configuring a T410s. Doesn't stack with anything > else though, but that is normal. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 15:47:52 2011 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:47:52 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: <372804.62045.qm-F1oYYhGF9fCvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:17 AM, dave jackson wrote: > -come& get 'em tlugers! > cheers, > dj > > > http://www.thinkpadtoday.com/1000-thinkpad-canada-coupon-code-employee-pricing-event.htm > > To cash in on these unbelievable deals just use this ThinkPad L Series Coupon Code, ThinkPad T Series Coupon Code, ThinkPad X201 Coupon Code or this ThinkPad W Series Coupon Code. > > > This Lenovo Employee Pricing Event expires February 13, 2011. > > Use the ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code CAPEMPLOYEEPRICINGEVENT at checkout. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > There's been a thread on RedFlagDeals for the last year that outlines the latest deal on the Lenovo Employee site. I've purchased almost 10 laptops over the last year using the employee site (http://shoplenovo.i2.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/ibmeppfriendca/StdAffinityPortal/en_CA/Lenovo:EnterStdAffinity?affinity=ibmeppfriendca&passcode=FNDEPP) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 15:48:12 2011 From: andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:48:12 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: <4D5174E7.10408@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: >> @Myles & James: ?Thanks, email sending from Gmail to > number>@pcs.rogers.com works for me. ?For some reason triggering >> forwarding using a filter doesn't but that's for another day. >> >> @Thomas: I didn't have any issues with the confirmation code. ?It was >> only 8 characters long. > > Yeah but it comes _after_ the 140 character limit, so it's impossible > to retrieve. If you know of some other way to retrieve the code, there > are about ten thousand GMail users who would very much like to know > it. The confirmation text I copied from my phone (HTC Dream) starts as follows: "Gmail Team (Gmail Forwarding Confirmation (#54074357) - Rec)". The confirmation code starts at 45 characters from the beginning. Do you have a Samsung Corby Pro? These phones have an issue of misformatting SMS so messages take up more characters than they should until a text format setting somewhere is changed from Unicode to GSM Alpha. > Some people claim that there was some way to get it to show up in the > subject line, but even then you only get the first five numbers. > > Seriously, check it out: > > http://tinyurl.com/6jzga2y These search results stop after July of 2010. Apparently Google fixed the problem, so whatever is happening for you is something different. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 15:49:00 2011 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:49:00 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Ijaaz A. Ullah wrote: > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:17 AM, dave jackson > wrote: >> -come& get 'em tlugers! >> cheers, >> dj >> >> >> http://www.thinkpadtoday.com/1000-thinkpad-canada-coupon-code-employee-pricing-event.htm >> >> To cash in on these unbelievable deals just use this ThinkPad L Series Coupon Code, ThinkPad T Series Coupon Code, ThinkPad X201 Coupon Code or this ThinkPad W Series Coupon Code. >> >> > >> This Lenovo Employee Pricing Event expires February 13, 2011. >> >> Use the ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code CAPEMPLOYEEPRICINGEVENT at checkout. >> > > There's been a thread on RedFlagDeals for the last year that outlines > the latest deal on the Lenovo Employee site. ?I've purchased almost 10 > laptops over the last year using the employee site > (http://shoplenovo.i2.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/ibmeppfriendca/StdAffinityPortal/en_CA/Lenovo:EnterStdAffinity?affinity=ibmeppfriendca&passcode=FNDEPP) > sorry, forgot to include the RFD link: http://forums.redflagdeals.com/lenovo-thinkpad-x-series-30-off-t-series-27-off-top-epp-no-min-777107/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 16:09:21 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:09:21 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: <372804.62045.qm-F1oYYhGF9fCvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4D540DB1.7070203@ve3syb.ca> dave jackson wrote: > To cash in on these unbelievable deals just use this ThinkPad L Series > Coupon Code, ThinkPad T Series Coupon Code, ThinkPad X201 Coupon Code or > this ThinkPad W Series Coupon Code. Sounds like a great deal if one is in the market for a laptop. Makes you wonder a bit if someone made a mistake in allowing anyone to get in on these deals by just providing a code and not having to prove employee status. Better get them while you can (before someone wises up to the mistake). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 16:09:54 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:09:54 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: References: <4D533C6F.5030209@sadiqs.info> Message-ID: <20110210160954.GQ347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:03:37AM -0500, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > OpenWRT's Buyer's Guide with popular devices at the bottom: > > http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/toh/buyerguide The buffalo one is hard to find as far as I can tell, but has lots of flash space (for a router). Not as fast a CPU as the DIR825, but cheaper and more flash. Quite nice. The netgear wndr3700 is basicly the same as the DIR-825 (same cpu and speed and ram), although in the v2 now has 16MB flash, which is better. Looks nice. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 16:13:59 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:13:59 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <383791E6C7EB4FF6897A288FF95785DF@mylesbraithwaite.com> I use a Linksys WAG325N with DD-WRT installed and I also have two Linksys WRE54G range extenders setup so I can get good coverage. -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org On Wednesday, February 9, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Kevin Morris wrote: > Hi, > > My current wireless router is acting up, lots of dropped connections, very frustrating, can't wait to take a hammer to it :) > > Any suggestions/recommendations for a good wireless router for home use in a condo that is about 1000 sq feet. > > Cheers > Kevin > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 16:21:36 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:21:36 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: <4D540257.6060407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D540257.6060407@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20110210162136.GR347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:20:55AM -0500, Digimer wrote: > Can anyone vouch for Dave? Name isn't familiar to me, and I'm catching a > wiff of spam. The coupon is valid. I got that in the lenovo email this morning. As for the 'Compensated Affiliate' link bit, I have no idea. I got my thinkpad almost two years ago with one of these coupon sales. If getting one to run linux I would make sure to: - Get nvidia or intel graphics, not ati/amd. Note that if it is a very new model with nvidia graphics with 'optimus' support, then linux can NOT use the nvidia at this time, only the intel. Hopefully nvidia will fix that eventually. The 'optimus' has both intel and nvidia graphics and switches between them depending on the current 3D demands. - Get intel wifi (5100 or 5300 works perfectly, I think 1000 works, but never tried it, and 6000 series hopefully work by now as well, but again I haven't tried it). Other brands are hit and miss in linux. - Fingerprint scanners can be made to work in linux with some effort (which I haven't bothered to do yet), if such a thing seems at all useful to you. - I think it is crazy to NOT get a CPU that has virtualization support, so picking the right CPU option can matter. Picking a power efficient CPU can extend the battery life a lot, without having to go to the larger battery (or make the larger battery even better). I spent an extra $100 (- coupon) for a low power CPU when I got mine, which certainly helps the battery life. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 16:23:05 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:23:05 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: <4D540DB1.7070203-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D540DB1.7070203@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > dave jackson wrote: >> >> To cash in on these unbelievable deals just use this ThinkPad L Series >> Coupon Code, ThinkPad T Series Coupon Code, ThinkPad X201 Coupon Code or >> this ThinkPad W Series Coupon Code. > > Sounds like a great deal if one is in the market for a laptop. Makes you > wonder a bit if someone made a mistake in allowing anyone to get in on these > deals by just providing a code and not having to prove employee status. > > Better get them while you can (before someone wises up to the mistake). If they're making money on it, and it leads to "crazy extra sales," Lenovo mayn't consider it a mistake. Seems interesting-ish. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 17:59:39 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:59:39 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <20110210160954.GQ347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4D533C6F.5030209@sadiqs.info> <20110210160954.GQ347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4D54278B.2030609@utoronto.ca> On 02/10/2011 11:09 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:03:37AM -0500, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: >> OpenWRT's Buyer's Guide with popular devices at the bottom: >> >> http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/toh/buyerguide > > The buffalo one is hard to find as far as I can tell, but has lots of > flash space (for a router). Not as fast a CPU as the DIR825, but cheaper > and more flash. Quite nice. > > The netgear wndr3700 is basicly the same as the DIR-825 (same cpu and > speed and ram), although in the v2 now has 16MB flash, which is better. > Looks nice. > I would not suggest DD-WRT on a DIR-825. OpenWRT is fine, but any DD-WRT build that I have tried has issues with randomly crashing or locking up http interfaces. OpenWRT however, runs just fine. And both radios work as separate SSIDs despite their documentation noting that only one will work because of spectrum licensing issues. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 18:54:49 2011 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 13:54:49 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D540DB1.7070203@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: If I only had a credit card, or a job.... -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 20:41:53 2011 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 15:41:53 -0500 Subject: Un-Bricking Linux Plug Computers Message-ID: Here's a tutorial for those of you considering getting one of those plug computers: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/tutorials/7292/1/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 20:44:21 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 15:44:21 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: <4D540DB1.7070203-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D540DB1.7070203@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20110210204421.GS347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:09:21AM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Sounds like a great deal if one is in the market for a laptop. Makes you > wonder a bit if someone made a mistake in allowing anyone to get in on > these deals by just providing a code and not having to prove employee > status. Employees always get this price. This coupon is a sale to consumers giving them the same prices employees already get. > Better get them while you can (before someone wises up to the mistake). Not a mistake. I got the coupon in my email from lenovo this morning. It is even on the front page: http://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/index.html -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 22:29:01 2011 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:29:01 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: <20110210204421.GS347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D540DB1.7070203@ve3syb.ca> <20110210204421.GS347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4D5466AD.8000402@yaknet.ca> On 10/02/11 15:44, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:09:21AM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: >> Sounds like a great deal if one is in the market for a laptop. Makes you >> wonder a bit if someone made a mistake in allowing anyone to get in on >> these deals by just providing a code and not having to prove employee >> status. > Employees always get this price. This coupon is a sale to consumers > giving them the same prices employees already get. > >> Better get them while you can (before someone wises up to the mistake). > Not a mistake. I got the coupon in my email from lenovo this morning. > > It is even on the front page: > http://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/index.html > I stumbled upon this recently. According to the Linux foundation you get employee pricing from the likes of Dell, HP and Lenovo when you become a member. Anyone a member that can shed some light on this? http://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/join/individual/join. The Linus August 25, 1991 e-mail T-shirt is cool IMHO. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 22:55:20 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:55:20 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: <4D5174E7.10408@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: >>> @Myles & James: ?Thanks, email sending from Gmail to >> number>@pcs.rogers.com works for me. ?For some reason triggering >>> forwarding using a filter doesn't but that's for another day. >>> >>> @Thomas: I didn't have any issues with the confirmation code. ?It was >>> only 8 characters long. >> >> Yeah but it comes _after_ the 140 character limit, so it's impossible >> to retrieve. If you know of some other way to retrieve the code, there >> are about ten thousand GMail users who would very much like to know >> it. > > The confirmation text I copied from my phone (HTC Dream) starts as > follows: ?"Gmail Team (Gmail Forwarding Confirmation (#54074357) - > Rec)". ?The confirmation code starts at 45 characters from the > beginning. That's completely different from the text I get. I use a custom domain with GMail, so I've put 'domain.org' in place of the real one. mail-noreply-rwNdu3Xx/YEdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org [Domain.org Forwarding Confirmati...] tbrucemilne-rwNdu3Xx/YEdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org has requested to automatically f > Do you have a Samsung Corby Pro? ?These phones have an issue of > misformatting SMS so messages take up more characters than they should > until a text format setting somewhere is changed from Unicode to GSM > Alpha. No, it's very simple. The text I get is exactly 140 characters, and it does not contain the confirmation code. >> Some people claim that there was some way to get it to show up in the >> subject line, but even then you only get the first five numbers. >> >> Seriously, check it out: >> >> http://tinyurl.com/6jzga2y > > These search results stop after July of 2010. ?Apparently Google fixed > the problem, so whatever is happening for you is something different. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 10 21:10:00 2011 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 16:10:00 -0500 Subject: libusb programming Message-ID: <201102101610.02673.icanprogram@295.ca> I'm trying to educate myself on libusb programming. So I grabbed some real life libusb code for a product I'm interested in: Phidgets (http://www.phidgets.com). Now I like puzzles. Even code puzzles. The Phidget library is a pretty typical pthreaded puzzle and my head is beginning to spin. Has anyone on this list had any experience coding for USB in Linux? libusb? If so contact me off list and maybe with some strategic coaching I can gain a toehold on this learning curve. Thanks in advance. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 03:15:27 2011 From: andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 22:15:27 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: <4D54278B.2030609-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4D533C6F.5030209@sadiqs.info> <20110210160954.GQ347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D54278B.2030609@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 02/10/2011 11:09 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:03:37AM -0500, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: >>> OpenWRT's Buyer's Guide with popular devices at the bottom: >>> >>> http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/toh/buyerguide >> >> The buffalo one is hard to find as far as I can tell, but has lots of >> flash space (for a router). ?Not as fast a CPU as the DIR825, but cheaper >> and more flash. ?Quite nice. A few years ago I ordered a Buffalo from the DD-WRT store in Germany. I do recall it took a few weeks for delivery. Otherwise, it seems better-constructed than most other routers and has worked fine since. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 15:17:30 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 10:17:30 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: <4D5466AD.8000402-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D540DB1.7070203@ve3syb.ca> <20110210204421.GS347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5466AD.8000402@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: Hmm. Does that coupon code still work? I'm noticing no difference in price when using it. On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 5:29 PM, John Myshrall wrote: > On 10/02/11 15:44, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:09:21AM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: >> >>> Sounds like a great deal if one is in the market for a laptop. Makes you >>> wonder a bit if someone made a mistake in allowing anyone to get in on >>> these deals by just providing a code and not having to prove employee >>> status. >>> >> Employees always get this price. This coupon is a sale to consumers >> giving them the same prices employees already get. >> >> Better get them while you can (before someone wises up to the mistake). >>> >> Not a mistake. I got the coupon in my email from lenovo this morning. >> >> It is even on the front page: >> http://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/index.html >> >> I stumbled upon this recently. According to the Linux foundation you get > employee pricing from the likes of Dell, HP and Lenovo when you become a > member. Anyone a member that can shed some light on this? > > http://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/join/individual/join. > > The Linus August 25, 1991 e-mail T-shirt is cool IMHO. > > John > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 15:53:28 2011 From: andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 10:53:28 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: <4D5174E7.10408@rogers.com> Message-ID: @Thomas I have a Google Apps domain (I suppose that's what you have) so I tried forwarding with it. Now I see what you're talking about. Looks like they fixed the issue for regular accounts back in July but still haven't for user domains. I wonder how they could have let a bug that would be so trivial to fix go on so long. For what it's worth, I filled a support request. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 15:53:49 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 10:53:49 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: <4D5174E7.10408@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: >> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Thomas Milne >> wrote: >>> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: >>>> @Myles & James: ?Thanks, email sending from Gmail to >>> number>@pcs.rogers.com works for me. ?For some reason triggering >>>> forwarding using a filter doesn't but that's for another day. >>>> >>>> @Thomas: I didn't have any issues with the confirmation code. ?It was >>>> only 8 characters long. >>> >>> Yeah but it comes _after_ the 140 character limit, so it's impossible >>> to retrieve. If you know of some other way to retrieve the code, there >>> are about ten thousand GMail users who would very much like to know >>> it. >> >> The confirmation text I copied from my phone (HTC Dream) starts as >> follows: ?"Gmail Team (Gmail Forwarding Confirmation (#54074357) - >> Rec)". ?The confirmation code starts at 45 characters from the >> beginning. > > That's completely different from the text I get. I use a custom domain > with GMail, so I've put 'domain.org' in place of the real one. > > mail-noreply-rwNdu3Xx/YEdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org [Domain.org Forwarding Confirmati...] > tbrucemilne-rwNdu3Xx/YEdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org has requested to automatically f > >> Do you have a Samsung Corby Pro? ?These phones have an issue of >> misformatting SMS so messages take up more characters than they should >> until a text format setting somewhere is changed from Unicode to GSM >> Alpha. > > No, it's very simple. The text I get is exactly 140 characters, and it > does not contain the confirmation code. And if I try it from a regular GMail account, this is what comes through: mail-noreply-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org [Gmail Forwarding Confirmation (#31179...] >>> Some people claim that there was some way to get it to show up in the >>> subject line, but even then you only get the first five numbers. >>> >>> Seriously, check it out: >>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/6jzga2y >> >> These search results stop after July of 2010. ?Apparently Google fixed >> the problem, so whatever is happening for you is something different. LOL! Yeah, obviously...even though it's _exactly_ the same. There are other pages with similar complaints that go right up to the present, including what I describe above. What you need to understand is that although it did not happen to _you_, it can still happen to other people, and it doesn't mean they're retarded if it does. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 16:44:53 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:44:53 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: <4D5174E7.10408@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > @Thomas > > I have a Google Apps domain (I suppose that's what you have) so I > tried forwarding with it. ?Now I see what you're talking about. > > Looks like they fixed the issue for regular accounts back in July but > still haven't for user domains. ? I wonder how they could have let a > bug that would be so trivial to fix go on so long. ? For what it's > worth, I filled a support request. Thanks but so have a thousand other people at this point. It looks like Google's sol'n was to move the confirmation code to the subject line, but for some reason they still put it after a bunch of text, so someone in between GMail and the SMS gateway is truncating the subject line as well. I've seen posts on this subject that it is something to do with Bell Canada (that I would not doubt it in the least, they really are fully equipped idiots). So even if they 'fix' the issue for custom domains, it won't help me unless they move the confirmation code to the beginning of the text/subject. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 16:47:47 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:47:47 -0500 Subject: GMail to Mobile won't work In-Reply-To: References: <4D5174E7.10408@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: >> @Thomas >> >> I have a Google Apps domain (I suppose that's what you have) so I >> tried forwarding with it. ?Now I see what you're talking about. >> >> Looks like they fixed the issue for regular accounts back in July but >> still haven't for user domains. ? I wonder how they could have let a >> bug that would be so trivial to fix go on so long. ? For what it's >> worth, I filled a support request. > > Thanks but so have a thousand other people at this point. It looks > like Google's sol'n was to move the confirmation code to the subject > line, but for some reason they still put it after a bunch of text, so > someone in between GMail and the SMS gateway is truncating the subject > line as well. I've seen posts on this subject that it is something to > do with Bell Canada (that I would not doubt it in the least, they > really are fully equipped idiots). > > So even if they 'fix' the issue for custom domains, it won't help me > unless they move the confirmation code to the beginning of the > text/subject. > Reminds me of a lesson I learned a long time ago, not just in technical matters, and one that GMail clearly needs to learn: If you apply half a solution, you will likely get twice the problems. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 17:54:08 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 12:54:08 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D540DB1.7070203@ve3syb.ca> <20110210204421.GS347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5466AD.8000402@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <20110211175408.GT347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:17:30AM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hmm. Does that coupon code still work? I'm noticing no difference in price > when using it. I just tried it. A T510 just went from: Regular $1628 On sale $1288 With coupon CAPEMPLOYEEPRICINGEVENT $966 Seems like that works to me. It only applies to certain models of course. I just somewhat randomly picked: T510 with intergrated graphics Added bluetooth Upgraded to intel 6300 AGN wifi (excellent linux support) Upgraded screen to 1600x900 (You can never have too many pixels). Upgraded disk to 320GB 5400rpm. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 19:24:12 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:24:12 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 Message-ID: Hmm, I may be missing something, but is there a chance of this working out? I mean, the whole engineering culture between the two firms is really different. I see a lot of Nokia developers not staying long with that company, but I could be wrong. Its a great deal for Microsoft though, but I highly doubt it will turn well for Nokia. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12427680 Time will tell Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 19:41:35 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:41:35 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 2:24 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hmm, > > I may be missing something, but is there a chance of this working out? > ?I mean, the whole engineering culture between the two firms is really > different. ?I see a lot of Nokia developers not staying long with that > company, but I could be wrong. > > Its a great deal for Microsoft though, but I highly doubt it will turn > well for Nokia. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12427680 > > Time will tell It seems rather suicidal to me, for Nokia. It makes their cellular business *highly* dependent on Microsoft, and vulnerable to any disadvantages that may accrue from changes in MSFT strategy. It reduces their profit margin, which, when they're "tops" at selling phones into low margin markets, could be fatal. I have little difficulty agreeing with the new CEO's claim that they're on a "burning platform." But even if you're "standing on a burning platform," you've got to look pretty carefully before you leap, lest there be outcomes even worse than getting singed. (Recall that on 9/11, there were folk that fled a "burning platform" to a many-story fatal fall.) I'm rather curious as to why, after consciously "open sourcing" parts of all their ongoing platforms (e.g. - Maemo, Symbian, Qt), it *didn't* appear that Android would fit well. There are certainly reasons of *pride* to resist a migration towards Android. (But such reasons would apply every bit as nicely to resisting a move to Windows.) I wonder if there's a massive amount of behind-the-scenes influence that mayn't ever be obvious. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 19:48:18 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:48:18 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: makes perfect sense, if they and intel (and the community) didn't really get moving on Meego it wouldn't be a stellar platform. I was hoping Meego would rule the day (the mobile OS of choice for Linux Fundation, i.e. "the" linux mobile OS). But as it was stated in the article, nokia wants to differentiate, so they either had to rule the world with Meego (and in doing so unseat android - is this likely to happen?), or make phones for Apple (no can do), so that left the only choice, be the main Win7 mobile phone, which fortunately if Win7 mobile is as an improvement as Win7 is over XP, it may work well for them. It may not increase their market share, but it will probably halt their down turn of late. If its a good partnership it will appeal to many business that will not look to iPhone or Droid because they want some windows (perceived) connectivity, synergy. Since I develop on mono/moonlight (.net/silverlight), doesn't matter to me really, as there is mono for iphone, mono-droid, and of course mono/moonlight naturally on Windows, so I can deploy to anything, BUT apple restrictions enforce their GUI calls within apps, so mono-touch (mono's iphone platform) required special version of app for iphone, so the only thing I hope for is that iPhone dies, and dies quick, which fortunately with androids growth should happen sooner then later. Of course nearing iPhones death, they will naturally open it up, and then cater to devs and say how wonderfully open it is, but by then too little too late. So i will just stick to moonlight and deploy just fine to just about everything device except iPhone, and then with iPhones my non-gui code will work, just have to make iPhone based gui rework of app. I am hoping for an app. i am building now, that doesn't have to be IPhone Store approved, that I can deploy it "pure mono" to Iphone, but not sure that is doable yet, and not sure if Apple will allow silverlight on its platform (eventually), or that mono community will make a "non approved" version, similar to how they provide mono to PowerPC macs, where as MS provides .net/silverlight to IntelMac. tl On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 2:24 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hmm, > > I may be missing something, but is there a chance of this working out? > ?I mean, the whole engineering culture between the two firms is really > different. ?I see a lot of Nokia developers not staying long with that > company, but I could be wrong. > > Its a great deal for Microsoft though, but I highly doubt it will turn > well for Nokia. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12427680 > > Time will tell > > Regards, > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 20:27:16 2011 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:27:16 -0500 Subject: UBB Cancelled Message-ID: <5bc0d5a114ec9d6630c13ba150cca5ae.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> I just received some good news from TekSavvy, UBB is no more and my plan just jumped from 200GB to 300GB. Here is a copy of the email they sent me... Dear TekSavvy Customer, Because of your support and participation in reaching out to the various MPs and the Minister of Industry we're pleased to announce that the March 1st UBB implementation date has been suspended indefinitely. With over 460,000 signatures having been sent to Parliament Minister Clement and the Industry committee requested the CRTC review its recent decision in full, which it has obliged and are now doing.? Until this review has occurred UBB over DSL has been completely shelved.? Minister Clement also added they would overturn the review should it resemble in any way to the previous outcome! So, congratulations to all who've spoken up about this issue, you've made a huge difference.? As a Canadian, today, I can honestly say it's refreshing to know politicians do listen and will affect change when the public at large shows concern! Effective March 1st we are going to move forward and make changes to the Usage, but we're going to make it a positive one! We are reinstating the Unlimited package but the 200GB package will be changed... to 300GB!? UBB is about Internet Costs, and as a result of lower costs with our providers (Peer1, Lime Light, etc...), costs outside our relationship with companies like Bell, we are extending the savings on to you, the clients... Enjoy! PS - To view your usage or receive more details on reinstated/upgraded packages go to http://myworld.teksavvy.com. Please note that usage on the Customer Portal is currently only available to DSL users. We are working towards adding this option to all of our Cable users. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 20:50:09 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:50:09 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D55A101.6010002@rogers.com> http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/111645/20110211/nokia-workers-walk-off-the-job-to-protest-microsoft-deal.htm William Muriithi wrote: > Hmm, > > I may be missing something, but is there a chance of this working out? > I mean, the whole engineering culture between the two firms is really > different. I see a lot of Nokia developers not staying long with that > company, but I could be wrong. > > Its a great deal for Microsoft though, but I highly doubt it will turn > well for Nokia. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12427680 > > Time will tell > > Regards, > > William > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 20:59:09 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:59:09 -0500 Subject: $1k ThinkPad Canada Coupon Code | Employee Pricing Event In-Reply-To: <20110210162136.GR347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <372804.62045.qm@web31302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D540257.6060407@alteeve.com> <20110210162136.GR347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:20:55AM -0500, Digimer wrote: > > Can anyone vouch for Dave? Name isn't familiar to me, and I'm catching a > > wiff of spam. > > The coupon is valid. I got that in the lenovo email this morning. > > As for the 'Compensated Affiliate' link bit, I have no idea. > > I got my thinkpad almost two years ago with one of these coupon sales. > If getting one to run linux I would make sure to: > > - Get nvidia or intel graphics, not ati/amd. Note that if it is a very > new model with nvidia graphics with 'optimus' support, then linux can > NOT use the nvidia at this time, only the intel. Hopefully nvidia will > fix that eventually. The 'optimus' has both intel and nvidia graphics > and switches between them depending on the current 3D demands. > > - Get intel wifi (5100 or 5300 works perfectly, I think 1000 works, > but never tried it, and 6000 series hopefully work by now as well, > but again I haven't tried it). Other brands are hit and miss in linux. > > - Fingerprint scanners can be made to work in linux with some effort > (which I haven't bothered to do yet), if such a thing seems at all useful > to you. > > - I think it is crazy to NOT get a CPU that has virtualization support, > so picking the right CPU option can matter. Picking a power efficient > CPU can extend the battery life a lot, without having to go to the larger > battery (or make the larger battery even better). I spent an extra $100 > (- coupon) for a low power CPU when I got mine, which certainly helps > the battery life. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 22:04:39 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 17:04:39 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 2:24 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hmm, > > I may be missing something, but is there a chance of this working out? > ?I mean, the whole engineering culture between the two firms is really > different. ?I see a lot of Nokia developers not staying long with that > company, but I could be wrong. > > Its a great deal for Microsoft though, but I highly doubt it will turn > well for Nokia. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12427680 > > Time will tell > It's funny, I read the other day that smart phone sales were higher than PC sales last year, and I thought 'jeez, what is Microshaft going to do?'. ...and here we are. Yeah, they have no choice but to get their OS onto as many phones as possible as soon as possible or they are history. Microsoft simply cannot function unless they are at least a near-monopoly, so watch for some interesting shenanigans in the near future. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 22:26:02 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 17:26:02 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: it's a sad day to be a QT developer and a Nokia software engineer, I was ramping up my C++ QT cross-platform skills for the past 4 weeks and then Nokia drops this bombshell today today nokia basically killed the QT developer eco-system for MS .Net I've developed using C++ with MS MFC to build GUI Window client app, and I can tell you that QT is a far superior GUI development framework to use, more so because you can build once and run it on Linux, Windows and Mac desktop. I really don't care too much for the mobile hardware platform, and not sure what TrollTech is going to do with QT, hopefully they will just fork the project out of Nokia + MS death grip -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 22:31:05 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 17:31:05 -0500 Subject: New Debian out Message-ID: Just realised today that Debian 6.0 has been released! I am sure it's solid as ever, congrats to the community! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 22:38:35 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 17:38:35 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i havn't used qt dev in a while, but i find it hard to believe for gui design anything even comes close to Expression Blend (4). The segmentation of coder to designer is insanely cool and clean (xaml), and the rapidness of development is also unbelievable. (and have you tried sketchflow for presentation of work?) If you MS MFC with C++, have you ever Expression Blend'ed with c# (or maybe managed c++ if its supported, i can't remember). If you want a true open platform that deploys everywhere with performance of C just go with moonlight/silverlight so your good to hit apple iphone/pad, apple Power, apple intel, windows, windows mobile, linux, meego, andriod, sun, ....... tl On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > it's a sad day to be a QT developer and a Nokia software engineer, I > was ramping up my C++ QT cross-platform skills for the past 4 weeks > and then Nokia drops this bombshell today > > today nokia basically killed the QT developer eco-system for MS .Net > > I've developed using C++ with MS MFC to build GUI Window client app, > and I can tell you that QT is a far superior GUI development framework > to use, more so because you can build once and run it on Linux, > Windows and Mac desktop. > > I really don't care too much for the mobile hardware platform, and not > sure what TrollTech is going to do with QT, hopefully they will just > fork the project out of Nokia + MS death grip > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely > > GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic > Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 > Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 23:06:19 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 18:06:19 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110211230619.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 05:38:35PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > i havn't used qt dev in a while, but i find it hard to believe for gui > design anything > even comes close to Expression Blend (4). The segmentation of coder to > designer is insanely cool and clean (xaml), > and the rapidness of development is also unbelievable. (and have you > tried sketchflow for presentation of work?) > If you MS MFC with C++, have you ever Expression Blend'ed with c# (or > maybe managed c++ if its supported, i can't remember). > If you want a true open platform that deploys everywhere with > performance of C just go with moonlight/silverlight so your > good to hit apple iphone/pad, apple Power, apple intel, windows, > windows mobile, linux, meego, andriod, sun, ....... Silverlight does not work on linux. moonlight does OK for silverlight 2, but 3 and 4 are non existant, and parts of 4 will never happen because they are for Windows only APIs. So, no it really would be a very stupid idea. Even java would work better than that and I wouldn't recommend it either. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 11 23:13:54 2011 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 18:13:54 -0500 Subject: UBB Cancelled In-Reply-To: <5bc0d5a114ec9d6630c13ba150cca5ae.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <5bc0d5a114ec9d6630c13ba150cca5ae.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: That does not mean it's cancelled, the CRTC have given themselves 60 days to review. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 12 00:15:31 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:15:31 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: <20110211230619.GU347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110211230619.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: 3 is working, mono versions don't track MS exactly, mono has stuff in say 3 that MS is only announcing in 5. 4 is in a few months, its about 60%-70% (according to a blog in late dec). MS SilverLight isn't as fast a moving target now, and not so many new features, as has pretty much kitchen sink now, only draw back is no covenant protect announced yet for SL5, but 3-4 does everything i need now. but this is actually talking SL specific, so really more comparable to java, flash competition, I don't know if i would ever use EB4 for WPF specific apps, as not platform compat. but mono is going with out-of-brower ML as a recommendation to some one who would consider WPF particular to MS. Silverlight works on Linux just fine to 2, 3 is basically there, and 4 is close. It doesn't fit for all project (not yet), but good for most. Not sure what would be better, MS makes sure C# is feature equal (and some extra ) to Java, C and C++ are long dead as far as new features and usability, plus C# has almost all C ability in it anyways (pointers and such), and will become a faster run time as per C limitations of not having JIT compiler specifics to the CPU instruction sets basically make C/C++ useless going forward, i.e. my compiled C/C++ program isn't going to make use of SSE X instruction that I don't compile to now, because maybe they doen't even exist yet because they are in the intel cpu release 6 month from now, and I am not going to keep compiling my app (especially commercial) to track new CPU instruction sets, rather get in this century, compile once, and have it speed up as the CPU get better, and get it all for free, as well not have different binaries for different platforms, and naturally not cater to all of them, as its to messy (time consuming). Rather just compile once, and know it will/could outperform C on arm, intel, amd, , and I don't have to futz with it. Having said that, of course I will have to recompile to say make use of a new PhysX feature, but that would be same for any platform, but if amd puts out a cpu with 64 register (of a certain type for example, (they have 32 or 16 now) I know i will get the benefit if my app. is deployed on it (provided mono/.net runtime is installed that supports said feature.) Having said all this, the mono community has lagged far behind, especially years ago, but they are much closer now to tracking MS on .net/SL. Intel also is building a .net runtime environment, not sure their progress. tl On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 05:38:35PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: >> i havn't used qt dev in a while, but i find it hard to believe for gui >> design anything >> even comes close to Expression Blend (4). The segmentation of coder to >> designer is insanely cool and clean (xaml), >> and the ?rapidness of development is also unbelievable. ?(and have you >> tried sketchflow for presentation of work?) >> If you MS MFC with C++, have you ever Expression Blend'ed with c# ?(or >> maybe managed c++ if its supported, i can't remember). >> If you want a true open platform that deploys everywhere with >> performance of C ?just go with moonlight/silverlight so your >> good to hit apple iphone/pad, apple Power, apple intel, windows, >> windows mobile, linux, meego, andriod, sun, ?....... > > Silverlight does not work on linux. > > moonlight does OK for silverlight 2, but 3 and 4 are non existant, > and parts of 4 will never happen because they are for Windows only APIs. > > So, no it really would be a very stupid idea. ?Even java would work > better than that and I wouldn't recommend it either. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 12 13:09:46 2011 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 08:09:46 -0500 Subject: UBB Cancelled In-Reply-To: References: <5bc0d5a114ec9d6630c13ba150cca5ae.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <67ea44ad57f7945be8c1b3517c5ac988.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Well, the email I received from TekSavvy had a subject line that said "canceled" and the email says "suspended indefinitely" but that aside Tony Clement said the government would overturn the decision if the CRTC did not. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/crtc-will-rescind-unlimited-use-internet-decision-or-ottawa-will-overturn-it/article1892522/ That link is over a week old so if the government has been changed its position please let me know. > That does not mean it's cancelled, the CRTC have given themselves 60 > days to review. > > > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 12 13:18:31 2011 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 08:18:31 -0500 Subject: UBB Cancelled In-Reply-To: <67ea44ad57f7945be8c1b3517c5ac988.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <5bc0d5a114ec9d6630c13ba150cca5ae.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <67ea44ad57f7945be8c1b3517c5ac988.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <910f5b037734cd4d722f98f6744b250d.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> "Until this review has occurred UBB over DSL has been completely shelved" Sorry, seems you are right about the 60 days, but what is the point when Tony Clement says he wants Market Choice allowing the smaller ISPs to offer unlimited access and that the government will overturn the UBB decision if the CRTC does not. > Well, the email I received from TekSavvy had a subject line that said > "canceled" and the email says "suspended indefinitely" but that aside Tony > Clement said the government would overturn the decision if the CRTC did > not. > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/crtc-will-rescind-unlimited-use-internet-decision-or-ottawa-will-overturn-it/article1892522/ > > That link is over a week old so if the government has been changed its > position please let me know. > >> That does not mean it's cancelled, the CRTC have given themselves 60 >> days to review. >> >> >> -- >> Sincerely, >> >> Michael Lauzon >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 12 19:49:14 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 14:49:14 -0500 Subject: Arduino... Message-ID: Last fall I took an on-line course that used the Arduino micro controller. Really slick little inexpensive controller with software development tools available for Linux, (as well as Mac OS X, and that other OS). Here is a look at why the Arduino has become as popular as it has: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/02/why-the-arduino-won-and-why-its-here-to-stay.html Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 12 19:50:52 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 14:50:52 -0500 Subject: Arduino... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D56E49C.5050203@alteeve.com> On 02/12/2011 02:49 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Last fall I took an on-line course that used the Arduino micro > controller. Really slick little inexpensive controller with software > development tools available for Linux, (as well as Mac OS X, and that > other OS). Here is a look at why the Arduino has become as popular as > it has: > > http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/02/why-the-arduino-won-and-why-its-here-to-stay.html > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists I use the Arduino as the basis for my Node Assassin cluster fence device. It's an incredibly awesome board. Just got the Mega Uno and a new network shield with the SD reader to build a new version with a web interface. Fantastic little device, and totally open hardware. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 12 19:58:20 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 14:58:20 -0500 Subject: Arduino... In-Reply-To: <4D56E49C.5050203-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D56E49C.5050203@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4D56E65C.9070804@utoronto.ca> On 2/12/2011 2:50 PM, Digimer wrote: > I use the Arduino as the basis for my Node Assassin cluster fence > device. It's an incredibly awesome board. Just got the Mega Uno and a > new network shield with the SD reader to build a new version with a web > interface. Fantastic little device, and totally open hardware. I used one with a simple ID-12 RFID chip for a thesis project. Great way to get started with RFID for ~$50. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 12 20:53:49 2011 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 15:53:49 -0500 Subject: Arduino... In-Reply-To: <4D56E65C.9070804-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4D56E49C.5050203@alteeve.com> <4D56E65C.9070804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Speaking of Arduino, hacklab.to is hosting part two of an Intro to Arduino on Monday, 21 February at their space in Kensington Market. I attended their Intro to PCB Soldering a few weeks back and it was pretty awesome, so I'm willing to bet that this class will be a fun time as well. All you need to bring is $20 and an Arduino: http://hacklab.to/archives/tickets-for-arduino-workshop-ii/ I meant to attend part 1 but then forgot about it. -jason On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 2/12/2011 2:50 PM, Digimer wrote: > >> I use the Arduino as the basis for my Node Assassin cluster fence >> device. It's an incredibly awesome board. Just got the Mega Uno and a >> new network shield with the SD reader to build a new version with a web >> interface. Fantastic little device, and totally open hardware. >> > > I used one with a simple ID-12 RFID chip for a thesis project. Great way to > get started with RFID for ~$50. > > Jamon > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 12 20:54:52 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 15:54:52 -0500 Subject: Arduino... In-Reply-To: References: <4D56E49C.5050203@alteeve.com> <4D56E65C.9070804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4D56F39C.5080802@alteeve.com> On 02/12/2011 03:53 PM, Jason Shaw wrote: > Speaking of Arduino, hacklab.to is hosting part two > of an Intro to Arduino on Monday, 21 February at their space in > Kensington Market. > > I attended their Intro to PCB Soldering a few weeks back and it was > pretty awesome, so I'm willing to bet that this class will be a fun time > as well. All you need to bring is $20 and an > Arduino: http://hacklab.to/archives/tickets-for-arduino-workshop-ii/ > > I meant to attend part 1 but then forgot about it. > > -jason I think there is limited space (due to physical space limits), so check first before going. :) -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 12 21:15:45 2011 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 16:15:45 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 14:24, William Muriithi wrote: > Hmm, > > I may be missing something, but is there a chance of this working out? Actually, yes. Let's put the prejudice against MS aside for a while: have you guys seen Windows Phone 7 UI? I have. I'm surprised to be saying this, but it's honestly the absolute BEST user experience in mobile devices ever. Period. Neither Android nor the iPhone have anything nearly as good. It's actually so good that some elements of the Win7Phone UI are slowly being incorporated by some programmers into iPhone and Android apps. Scary, huh? The problem is that the previous Windows Mobile was so bad that it's going to take some work for it to be taken seriously, but with it could work with some serious hardware behind it. I was hoping Nokia would choose Android, but I knew the chances were slim. > ?I mean, the whole engineering culture between the two firms is really > different. ?I see a lot of Nokia developers not staying long with that > company, but I could be wrong. The problem is that Symbian absolutely sucks by today's standards (and has sucked for a good, long while) and Maemo never really became anything comparable to Android/iOS. To make things worse, MeeGo took to long to be released and it's basically being scrapped too. I know people that work both on Nokia and Intel. The Nokia guys had an attitude that can be summed up as "LALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING!" when you tried to discuss the shortcomings of their platforms. Intel, on the other hand, really doesn't understand anything outside hardware. I can't understand why they got involved with MeeGo to begin with. - FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 12 22:51:15 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:51:15 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yup, MS is starting to do some good shit, i use Expression blend to design apps, will use a similar app once available on linux, but for now. Your email really has me wanting to go out and see a MS mobile 7 device now. Having said that, everyone is ape shit for iPhone, but honestly, its good for non-tecnies or apple techies, or for techs that want more of a phone unc., or need a iPhone app, but apple stuff for a poweruser (especially also to have some level of openness) isn't good IMHO. I wonder how open the app store will be for MS7mobile and how bitchy they will be on accepted apps and api access and such . But if mono-droid and moonlight on a droid can deploys as good as MS7m (moonligth/silverlight) i will still go for a droid for sure. Just waiting for a intel android (with a gig ram) as i want to tri boot linux, osx, windows, just want to be able to win every argument with anyone about "yes my phone is better then your phone" :) Especially iPhone users, i want to be able to say, hey why do you have a crappy Iphone, and they will say, why what do you have, "oh just a full OSX running on my phone, and linux and win7", which will be followed by much silence and a jaw hitting floor. tl On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Fabio FZero wrote: > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 14:24, William Muriithi > wrote: >> Hmm, >> >> I may be missing something, but is there a chance of this working out? > > Actually, yes. Let's put the prejudice against MS aside for a while: > have you guys seen Windows Phone 7 UI? > > I have. I'm surprised to be saying this, but it's honestly the > absolute BEST user experience in mobile devices ever. Period. Neither > Android nor the iPhone have anything nearly as good. > > It's actually so good that some elements of the Win7Phone UI are > slowly being incorporated by some programmers into iPhone and Android > apps. Scary, huh? > > The problem is that the previous Windows Mobile was so bad that it's > going to take some work for it to be taken seriously, but with it > could work with some serious hardware behind it. > > I was hoping Nokia would choose Android, but I knew the chances were slim. > >> ?I mean, the whole engineering culture between the two firms is really >> different. ?I see a lot of Nokia developers not staying long with that >> company, but I could be wrong. > > The problem is that Symbian absolutely sucks by today's standards (and > has sucked for a good, long while) and Maemo never really became > anything comparable to Android/iOS. To make things worse, MeeGo took > to long to be released and it's basically being scrapped too. > > I know people that work both on Nokia and Intel. The Nokia guys had an > attitude that can be summed up as "LALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING!" when > you tried to discuss the shortcomings of their platforms. Intel, on > the other hand, really doesn't understand anything outside hardware. I > can't understand why they got involved with MeeGo to begin with. > > - FZ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 12 23:35:35 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:35:35 -0500 Subject: Anyone get Acer laptop internal microphone working in linux? Message-ID: <20110212233534.GA5499@waltdnes.org> I got an Acer Aspire 4551-2728 earlier this year, and now I have some spare time on my hands, and I've got it almost 100% functional under 64 bit Gentoo linux. The networking was dead easy, as was the video (once I was pointed to the instructions). The webcam took some digging, but I figured it out, with "Mr. Google's" help. The last item that doesn't work yet is the internal microphone. Has anybody gotten an internal microphone on any Acer laptop working? My Google searches have found a couple of references to "it works out of the box" under some versions of Ubuntu, but no technical details, which doesn't really help. Here are a few snippets from alsa-info... !!DMI Information !!--------------- Manufacturer: Acer Product Name: Aspire 4551 !!Kernel Information !!------------------ Kernel release: 2.6.36-gentoo-r5 Operating System: GNU/Linux Architecture: x86_64 Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) II P320 Dual-Core Processor SMP Enabled: Yes !!Soundcards recognised by ALSA !!----------------------------- 0 [SB ]: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB HDA ATI SB at 0xd0400000 irq 16 1 [HDMI ]: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI HDMI HDA ATI HDMI at 0xd0110000 irq 19 !!PCI Soundcards installed in the system !!-------------------------------------- 00:14.2 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) (rev 40) 01:05.1 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc Device 970f !!Advanced information - PCI Vendor/Device/Susbsystem ID's !!-------------------------------------------------------- 00:14.2 0403: 1002:4383 (rev 40) Subsystem: 1025:0372 -- 01:05.1 0403: 1002:970f Subsystem: 1025:0372 !!HDA-Intel Codec information !!--------------------------- --startcollapse-- Codec: Realtek ALC272X Address: 0 AFG Function Id: 0x1 (unsol 1) Vendor Id: 0x10ec0272 Subsystem Id: 0x10250372 Revision Id: 0x100001 !!Aplay/Arecord output !!------------ APLAY **** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices **** card 0: SB [HDA ATI SB], device 0: ALC272X Analog [ALC272X Analog] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 card 1: HDMI [HDA ATI HDMI], device 3: ATI HDMI [ATI HDMI] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 ARECORD **** List of CAPTURE Hardware Devices **** card 0: SB [HDA ATI SB], device 0: ALC272X Analog [ALC272X Analog] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 13 02:57:44 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 21:57:44 -0500 Subject: Arduino... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110213025744.GA5561@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 02:49:14PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Last fall I took an on-line course that used the Arduino micro > controller. Really slick little inexpensive controller with software > development tools available for Linux, (as well as Mac OS X, and that > other OS). Here is a look at why the Arduino has become as popular as > it has: > > http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/02/why-the-arduino-won-and-why-its-here-to-stay.html Do you have something for "show-and-tell"? I'm curious as to how this is different from Heathkit of old days. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 13 03:00:36 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 22:00:36 -0500 Subject: Arduino... In-Reply-To: <20110213025744.GA5561-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110213025744.GA5561@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4D574954.5050700@alteeve.com> On 02/12/2011 09:57 PM, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 02:49:14PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Last fall I took an on-line course that used the Arduino micro >> controller. Really slick little inexpensive controller with software >> development tools available for Linux, (as well as Mac OS X, and that >> other OS). Here is a look at why the Arduino has become as popular as >> it has: >> >> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2011/02/why-the-arduino-won-and-why-its-here-to-stay.html > > Do you have something for "show-and-tell"? > I'm curious as to how this is different from Heathkit of old days. If you want to see the application of one, here is the firmware for my Node Assassin. It's basically a stripped down C++ called a "sketch". http://wiki.alteeve.com/index.php/NAOS_v1.1.4.x I did all of the development in Linux, and never once had a problem. It's a fantastic little platform with a low barrier to entry. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 13 04:04:55 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:04:55 -0500 Subject: Arduino... In-Reply-To: <20110213025744.GA5561-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110213025744.GA5561@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4D575867.3060405@gmail.com> On 11-02-12 21:57 , William Park wrote: > > Do you have something for "show-and-tell"? > I'm curious as to how this is different from Heathkit of old days. It's different in that there are thousands of very active users with an incredible community online. Unlike the Heathkit, anyone can make an Arduino-compatible - the designs and code are open source. There are tiny Arduinos (Solarbotics Ardweeny, barely larger than the AVR microcontroller itself), wearable Arduinos, and specialized ones for applications like model aircraft and scale railway. If there's a sensor or protocol out there, someone's at least tried to get it working with Arduino, and documented the results. Things I've done with it so far include: * made a clock from a GPS unit salvaged from a remaindered MS Streets & Trips kit and a Nokia phone display * built a GPS logger that logs to microSD every second * attempted to (hey, not everything works first time) read the signals broadcast by a home power meter * made soft drinks containers of the world play the national anthem of their country of origin. Did I say they had to be *sensible* applications? I haven't been this keen on programming for decades. It's enormous fun. If you're looking for the modules themselves, Creatron at College & Spadina have them. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 13 04:11:49 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:11:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | I'm rather curious as to why, ... | I wonder if there's a massive amount of behind-the-scenes influence | that mayn't ever be obvious. In September, Nokia hired Elop (a Canadian) to replace their CEO (a 30-year Nokia veteran). Elop had been head of Microsoft's Business unit. I don't know whether the board hired him to bring WinPho7 or that was his own "idea". Here's another article about that hiring: Balmer said: "I appreciate the way that Stephen has been a good steward of the brand and business in his time here, and look forward to continuing to work with him in his new role at Nokia." Also note: "Nokia Oyj, the world?s biggest maker of mobile phones, tumbled the most in almost 19 months on investor concern that a partnership with Microsoft Corp. won?t be enough in its battle with Google Inc. and Apple Inc. " Nokia shares fell 14%. ?My first thought is to sell Nokia stock because Nokia has just given themselves away for free and Google and Apple are laughing all the way to a duopoly,? said Neil Campling, an analyst at Aviate Global LLP in London. That whole article is interesting. This seems peculiar: Nokia will bring out a device this year on MeeGo, a high- end operating system it?s developing with Intel Corp., to gauge market reaction, Elop said. MeeGo engineers will then be shifted to work on innovations that can help Nokia leapfrog rivals. Why would it be interesting to "gauge market reactions" to something you appear to be shooting in the head? Elop said while he did explore the Android option, differentiation would have been difficult. How can you differentiate with WinPho7? Has Microsoft given them some kind of exclusive? From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 13 05:50:25 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:50:25 -0500 Subject: Flash Video -- help! In-Reply-To: <639239.28975.qm-CtIdhJAQs3M5A34FEqDeB/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <59232.53834.qm@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <639239.28975.qm@web113409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110213055025.GA4822@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 06:48:09AM -0800, William Park wrote: > I'm using binary driver from nvidia.com. I'm told that my GeForce > 8500GT may be suspect, so I'll upgrade to GeForce GTS450 and see. > Anything more will require new power supply, motherboard, and ram, > which I want to reserve for SandyBridge. - upgraded from GeForce 8500GT to GTS450. I barely notice the improvement. - tried 4 lines shell script "alternative" to 200-line "cgroup" patch. I didn't notice much. - tried 2.6.38-rc4. Much better. It's not as smooth or clean as I would like, but good enough for now. I think 16ms response time of my Dell monitor might not be ideal for watching video. - I was able to download Flash Video using Firefox add-on. When I played it with MPlayer, it was very good. And, whether I play default screen size or full screen, the change in CPU load was not noticeable. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 13 17:05:01 2011 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 12:05:01 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 23:11, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > ? ?Elop said while he did explore the Android option, differentiation > ? ?would have been difficult. > > How can you differentiate with WinPho7? ?Has Microsoft given them some > kind of exclusive? This is the bit that I find hard to believe too. I personally have used three alternative Android ROMs and they can change quite radically the way the phone works. The Win7 Phone interface, on the other hand, follows a very well defined set of guidelines. While this is good for consistency, it will certainly hurts customization. If MS lets Nokia customize the Win7 UI too much, this it's going to be a disaster. Why? Just look at that UI disaster that is Symbian. I hope they're wise enough to strike a balance on this. - FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 13 17:11:53 2011 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 12:11:53 -0500 Subject: Arduino... In-Reply-To: <4D575867.3060405-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110213025744.GA5561@node1.opengeometry.net> <4D575867.3060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: The music geeks are all over this too. There's a cross between two open-source hardware project -- Arduinome = Monome + Arduino -- that's generating some very interesting results. http://flipmu.noisepages.com/work/arduinome/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzBfXTAE1ss&feature=related - FZ On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 23:04, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 11-02-12 21:57 , William Park wrote: >> >> Do you have something for "show-and-tell"? >> I'm curious as to how this is different from Heathkit of old days. > > It's different in that there are thousands of very active users with an > incredible community online. Unlike the Heathkit, anyone can make an > Arduino-compatible - the designs and code are open source. There are > tiny Arduinos (Solarbotics Ardweeny, barely larger than the AVR > microcontroller itself), wearable Arduinos, and specialized ones for > applications like model aircraft and scale railway. > > If there's a sensor or protocol out there, someone's at least tried to > get it working with Arduino, and documented the results. Things I've > done with it so far include: > > * made a clock from a GPS unit salvaged from a remaindered MS Streets & > Trips kit and a Nokia phone display > > * built a GPS logger that logs to microSD every second > > * attempted to (hey, not everything works first time) read the signals > broadcast by a home power meter > > * made soft drinks containers of the world play the national anthem of > their country of origin. Did I say they had to be *sensible* applications? > > I haven't been this keen on programming for decades. It's enormous fun. > > If you're looking for the modules themselves, Creatron at College & > Spadina have them. > > cheers, > ?Stewart > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 13 18:54:36 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:54:36 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Fabio FZero wrote: > On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 23:11, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> ? ?Elop said while he did explore the Android option, differentiation >> ? ?would have been difficult. >> >> How can you differentiate with WinPho7? ?Has Microsoft given them some >> kind of exclusive? > > This is the bit that I find hard to believe too. I personally have > used three alternative Android ROMs and they can change quite > radically the way the phone works. The Win7 Phone interface, on the > other hand, follows a very well defined set of guidelines. While this > is good for consistency, it will certainly hurts customization. > > If MS lets Nokia customize the Win7 UI too much, this it's going to be > a disaster. Why? Just look at that UI disaster that is Symbian. > > I hope they're wise enough to strike a balance on this. That doesn't make much sense. The one mobile platform out there right now that really *is* customizable is, as you say, Android. The "launcher/home" application is perhaps the root of this, and rather reminiscent of the X notion of window managers, where this "component that manages how you access windows" may be replaced with any of a variety of pretty radically different options. I agree with many of the premises behind the notion of Nokia changing platforms... - They are getting their lunch "eaten" by, on various sides: - Android - selling more phones than Nokia, "at last" - Apple - which has been eating the "high profit" portion of the market - Cheap Chinese phone makers (see: http://www.asymco.com/2010/12/27/the-85-smartphone/) Symbian is mighty creaky, and probably isn't able to be remedied into something suitable for a future. Sadly, I don't think they put nearly enough effort into the would-be alternatives; Maemo was an interesting experiment, and I don't have a big problem with them concluding that wasn't quite ready to "bet the company" on. They weren't moving nearly quickly enough on Meego for that to become a realistic future platform any time soon. At this point, the whole "burning platform" metaphor fits pretty well. Neither Maemo nor Meego were the thing they were truly invested in. I expect that the majority of the engineering staff are fans of staying with Symbian, and that's just going to leave them in a scorched place. I saw an interesting article that presents an opposing view, that Windows Mobile is a wise move: http://scobleizer.com/2011/02/11/dear-nokia-fans-youre-nuts/ It's interesting, but not necessarily presenting a useful outcome for Nokia. Sure, it's "all about the apps" (at least for Apple & Android, with tens of thousands of 3rd party apps in their respective 'stores'). But Microsoft isn't actually offering an "app store" with tens of thousands of 3rd party apps - while I'm sure it's on MSFT radar, it's not there yet, and if Nokia has to wait until 2013 to get a "Microsoft Apps Store," they'll be dead meat. And back to the "cheap chipsets" side of things, nothing about this deal helps increase Nokia phone prices, nor does it provide them a cheap chipset to heavily reuse to make better phones for less, to ward off the "cheap Chinese phones." They don't get a better customizable phone OS; HTC has already been demonstrating on Android that they get that *there.* My suspicion is that going Android would have been a wiser move, and keeping an oar in the Meego waters would provide backup. That still doesn't protect against the "$85 smartphone" problem, of course. This is a splendid deal for Microsoft, to finally have a large captive market for Windows Mobile. There mayn't be much of Nokia left, at the end. I step back to the initial "wonder about backroom influence" part. Sure, Elop's ex-Microsoft, the notion that he came with a "buy from my old buddies" proposal is hardly surprising. But he had to convince Nokia executives to go along with the proposal. And it's not evident that any of them were Microsofties. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 13 20:59:26 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:59:26 -0500 Subject: Software to forward to SMS/receive from SMS Message-ID: Can anyone recommend software that lets me do fun things with SMS? Like perhaps sending messages to and/or from my home computer, or otherwise interacting with a home system over SMS? At first I was just looking for a way to get e-mail to SMS, but I found this list: http://tuxmobil.org/phones_linux_sms.html and some of it sounds kinda fun. Just don't want to 'trial and error' if someone already has some experience :-) -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 13 21:04:55 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:04:55 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110213210455.GA4007@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 01:54:36PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > I agree with many of the premises behind the notion of Nokia changing > platforms... > > - They are getting their lunch "eaten" by, on various sides: > - Android - selling more phones than Nokia, "at last" > - Apple - which has been eating the "high profit" portion of the market > - Cheap Chinese phone makers (see: > http://www.asymco.com/2010/12/27/the-85-smartphone/) My money is on the Chinese. If Chinese companies were allowed to build cell infrastructures (ie. putting up the poles), then it's game over. Because, all I really care about is $$$/min. :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 13 21:52:59 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:52:59 -0500 Subject: Guy Open Souces his DNA. Message-ID: An open source developer has released his DNA under an open source license. -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 00:50:19 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 19:50:19 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110214005019.GA8807@waltdnes.org> Nokia made damn good "dumbphones". I've had a Nokia 6015i "candybar" for years, and it's still going strong. It has an ability to make and receive phone calls that "smartphones" can't match. Oh, and I can't "hold it the wrong way" either . Someone has already pointed to the article at... http://www.asymco.com/2010/12/27/the-85-smartphone/ but that won't be the real cause of the demise of "dumbphones". The real cause will be the greedy incumbent cellcos. Just *TRY* getting a smartphone from a cellco ^WITHOUT A DATA PLAN*. The ultimate in greed so far has to be the Verizon/Xoom fiasco. Wanna buy a Xoom? OK, but you can't use the wifi *UNLESS YOU BUY AT LEAST ONE MONTH OF A DATA PLAN WITH VERIZON*!!! See... http://www.examiner.com/technology-in-columbus/verizon-locking-wifi-on-the-motorola-xoom-until-one-month-of-data-is-purchased and http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/Motorola-Xoom-Pricing-Confounds-Consumers-Analysts-804337/ The ultimate goal for BRAT (Bell, Rogets, And Telus) is a situation where you can't get voice-only cell service, but will be required to pay for a data plan that you don't want/need. They have stopped purchasing "dumbphones", and therefore the market is evaporating. I wonder how long my Nokia 6015i will last. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 02:58:54 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 21:58:54 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D589A6E.1040902@rogers.com> Take a look at this. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/13/nokia-microsoft-news_n_822574.html William Muriithi wrote: > Hmm, > > I may be missing something, but is there a chance of this working out? > I mean, the whole engineering culture between the two firms is really > different. I see a lot of Nokia developers not staying long with that > company, but I could be wrong. > > Its a great deal for Microsoft though, but I highly doubt it will turn > well for Nokia. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12427680 > > Time will tell > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 15:31:42 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:31:42 -0500 Subject: Arduino... In-Reply-To: References: <20110213025744.GA5561@node1.opengeometry.net> <4D575867.3060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Fabio FZero wrote: > The music geeks are all over this too. There's a cross between two > open-source hardware project -- Arduinome = Monome + Arduino -- that's > generating some very interesting results. > > http://flipmu.noisepages.com/work/arduinome/ > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzBfXTAE1ss&feature=related Yes, a number of artistic areas have found ways to use the Arduino. Here are some examples: Want to connect an electronic keyboard to an Arduino: http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-MIDI-in-shield/ "Smart" clothing : http://www.instructables.com/id/Programmable-LilyPad-EL-Wire-Dress/ Smart sculpture: http://www.instructables.com/id/working-progress-n-how-to-make-a-multilayered-a/ Further, since the design is all free there are Arduino knock-offs available, the most extreme example I know of is : http://www.instructables.com/id/Perfboard-Hackduino-Arduino-compatible-circuit/ . An Arduino compatible for under $8 (U.S.) ... okay, so it has a number of limitations the original doesn't have, but for some projects it would do just fine... Colin. > - FZ > > On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 23:04, Stewart C. Russell wrote: >> On 11-02-12 21:57 , William Park wrote: >>> >>> Do you have something for "show-and-tell"? >>> I'm curious as to how this is different from Heathkit of old days. >> >> It's different in that there are thousands of very active users with an >> incredible community online. Unlike the Heathkit, anyone can make an >> Arduino-compatible - the designs and code are open source. There are >> tiny Arduinos (Solarbotics Ardweeny, barely larger than the AVR >> microcontroller itself), wearable Arduinos, and specialized ones for >> applications like model aircraft and scale railway. >> >> If there's a sensor or protocol out there, someone's at least tried to >> get it working with Arduino, and documented the results. Things I've >> done with it so far include: >> >> * made a clock from a GPS unit salvaged from a remaindered MS Streets & >> Trips kit and a Nokia phone display >> >> * built a GPS logger that logs to microSD every second >> >> * attempted to (hey, not everything works first time) read the signals >> broadcast by a home power meter >> >> * made soft drinks containers of the world play the national anthem of >> their country of origin. Did I say they had to be *sensible* applications? >> >> I haven't been this keen on programming for decades. It's enormous fun. >> >> If you're looking for the modules themselves, Creatron at College & >> Spadina have them. >> >> cheers, >> ?Stewart >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yxm946-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 17:11:13 2011 From: yxm946-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter Marks) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:11:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 Message-ID: <798778.99125.qm@web114513.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> >From my perspective, the combination of features on Nokia handsets make them, for me, the only "smart" phones available outside of Japan now. No other handsets available here can provide all of this out-of-the-box right now: - Full bluetooth stack (for wireless file transfers to and from the handset, for example) - Builtin SIP (for VoIP without needing to run an application like Skype) - Builtin DLNA/UPnP (for multimedia streaming to and from the handset, without having to buy Apple TV) - Real multitasking (take-a-snapshot-and-email-it-to-the-person-to-whom-you're-talking-while-you're-still-talking multitasking) - Mount remote webDAV folders - USB-on-the-Go (plug in USB drives and other devices) - OTA firmware and software updates (completley independent of a desktop computer) - SyncML support (I sync contacts, calendar events, and tasks with my Linux box OTA with ease) - Internet radio - Hardware GPS (no data needed, as with A-GPS, though A-GPS is also available on the handsets) - Maps with free walk-or-drive voice navigation and maps preloaded on the handset (no data plan or Internet connection at all required to use maps, unlike with, say, Google Maps; still can't believe that Nokia handed this "crown jewel" to MS; Nokia was never able to tell the OVI maps story; MS apparently fully understood what it is though) I've had those features on my Nokia handsets for years (save for USB-on-the-Go, which is available only on the handsets introduced last year), without needing 3rd party applications. (Add two applications - Joiku-spot and SMBSync - and I've had Wi-Fi sharing and the ability to browse Windows, Linux, and Mac PCs from my phone, and my phone from those computers, since 2007). And now Nokia is moving to an OS that doesn't have a fraction of those features (not even copy-and-paste for goodness sakes), though undoubtedly it will be prettier ("animated transitions!"). I suspect that consumers and the carriers don't really want "smart" phones. They want phones with web browsers. In which case, Nokia's play may just meet with success. (As for the supposed difficulty or complexity of the Symbian UI, all I can say is my wife, who is decidedly non-technical, has no trouble using her current S^3 device, including VoIP, email, file transfers and Internet radio. And this without a data plan at all, by the way, just Wi-Fi. In fact, she can use the handset for calls and email without even having a SIM card in the handset, which I imagine is not something that enamoured Nokia Symbian handsets to North American carriers.) Nokia was never able to tell its "smart" phone story here (North America). Apple adds copy-and-paste and (limited) multimedia streaming and everyone knows about it. Even many owners of Nokia handsets don't know what it can do (yes, partly the fault of the UI I grant, but marketing also played a big part, in my opinion), so they install Skype instead of just signing up for, say, voipcheap. PM ____________________________________________________________________________________ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 18:47:04 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 13:47:04 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: <20110211230619.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110214184704.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 07:15:31PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > 3 is working, mono versions don't track MS exactly, mono has stuff in > say 3 that MS is only announcing in 5. > 4 is in a few months, its about 60%-70% (according to a blog in late dec). > MS SilverLight isn't as fast a moving target now, and not so many new > features, as has pretty much kitchen sink now, > only draw back is no covenant protect announced yet for SL5, but 3-4 > does everything i need now. > but this is actually talking SL specific, so really more comparable to > java, flash competition, > I don't know if i would ever use EB4 for WPF specific apps, as not > platform compat. > but mono is going with out-of-brower ML as a recommendation to some > one who would consider WPF particular to MS. > > Silverlight works on Linux just fine to 2, 3 is basically there, and 4 > is close. It doesn't fit for all project (not yet), but good for most. > Not sure what would be better, MS makes sure C# is feature equal (and > some extra ) to Java, C and C++ are long dead as far as new features > and usability, plus C# has almost all C ability in it anyways > (pointers and such), and will become a faster run time as per C > limitations of not having > JIT compiler specifics to the CPU instruction sets basically make > C/C++ useless going forward, i.e. my compiled C/C++ program > isn't going to make use of SSE X instruction that I don't compile to > now, because maybe they doen't even exist yet because they > are in the intel cpu release 6 month from now, and I am not going to > keep compiling my app (especially commercial) to track new > CPU instruction sets, rather get in this century, compile once, and > have it speed up as the CPU get better, and get it all for free, as > well > not have different binaries for different platforms, and naturally not > cater to all of them, as its to messy (time consuming). Well the one place I have needed silverlight (moonlight) was for something that drew a gant chart. It didn't work and crashed the browser. Demo pages that do silverlight 1 and 2 stuff work, nothing higher has ever worked when I tried, and always crashed instead. > Rather just compile once, and know it will/could outperform C on arm, > intel, amd, , and I don't have to futz with it. > Having said that, of course I will have to recompile to say make use > of a new PhysX feature, but that would be same for any platform, > but if amd puts out a cpu with 64 register (of a certain type for > example, (they have 32 or 16 now) I know i will get the benefit if my > app. is deployed on it (provided mono/.net runtime is installed that > supports said feature.) > > Having said all this, the mono community has lagged far behind, > especially years ago, but they are much closer now to tracking MS on > .net/SL. > Intel also is building a .net runtime environment, not sure their progress. I still consider silverlight hopeless. Not supporting machines without SSE is moronic. There were lots of machines with Ahtlon CPUs (pre Athlon XP) running Windows XP in active use when they released silverlight. Worse yet they couldn't be bothered to make it give a useful error message or put in the system requirements that it needed SSE. Flash doesn't have such nonsense (and I hate flash too). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevjmorris-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 19:43:01 2011 From: kevjmorris-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Kevin Morris) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:43:01 -0500 Subject: [TLUG] Wireless Router In-Reply-To: References: ,,<4D533C6F.5030209@sadiqs.info>,,,<20110210160954.GQ347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,<4D54278B.2030609@utoronto.ca>, Message-ID: Thanks for all the responses. I will make comparisons of all the routers suggested and then get one that will best suit my needs Kevin > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 22:15:27 -0500 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [TLUG] Wireless Router > From: andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Jamon Camisso > wrote: > > On 02/10/2011 11:09 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:03:37AM -0500, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > >>> OpenWRT's Buyer's Guide with popular devices at the bottom: > >>> > >>> http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/toh/buyerguide > >> > >> The buffalo one is hard to find as far as I can tell, but has lots of > >> flash space (for a router). Not as fast a CPU as the DIR825, but cheaper > >> and more flash. Quite nice. > > A few years ago I ordered a Buffalo from the DD-WRT store in Germany. > I do recall it took a few weeks for delivery. Otherwise, it seems > better-constructed than most other routers and has worked fine since. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 21:26:57 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:26:57 -0500 Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld Message-ID: <4D599E21.10908@rogers.com> http://www.infoworld.com/t/unix/nine-traits-the-veteran-unix-admin-276 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 21:46:35 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:46:35 -0500 Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld In-Reply-To: <4D599E21.10908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4D599E21.10908@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 14 February 2011 16:26, James Knott wrote: > http://www.infoworld.com/t/unix/nine-traits-the-veteran-unix-admin-276 While there's a fair amount of truth to the article, I found it read more like "nine-reasons-why-im-cool." Come on - vim is the one true vi? Yes, you have to know vi, but that next conclusion does not follow. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE vim. But vim only fails to look bloated because it's being compared to emacs. Vim is a 20MB package these days! Not exactly ideal for small systems - and not generally a default, either. I could continue quibbling, but I'll leave it at that. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 21:52:21 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:52:21 -0500 Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld In-Reply-To: References: <4D599E21.10908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4D59A415.5050500@alteeve.com> On 02/14/2011 04:46 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > On 14 February 2011 16:26, James Knott wrote: >> http://www.infoworld.com/t/unix/nine-traits-the-veteran-unix-admin-276 > > While there's a fair amount of truth to the article, I found it read > more like "nine-reasons-why-im-cool." Come on - vim is the one true > vi? Yes, you have to know vi, but that next conclusion does not > follow. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE vim. But vim only fails to look > bloated because it's being compared to emacs. Vim is a 20MB package > these days! Not exactly ideal for small systems - and not generally a > default, either. I could continue quibbling, but I'll leave it at > that. I have to agree, that came off as pretty arrogant. Thumbs down. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 22:09:14 2011 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:09:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld In-Reply-To: <4D599E21.10908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4D599E21.10908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <920852.74142.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 2/14/11, James Knott wrote: > From: James Knott > Subject: [TLUG]: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld > To: "tlug" > Received: Monday, February 14, 2011, 4:26 PM > > http://www.infoworld.com/t/unix/nine-traits-the-veteran-unix-admin-276 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > That is funny but true! Particularly, the last one. Well, I use 'sudo bash' which is effectively is equivalent to su. Too lazy to assign a password to root:-) Also, a system without root password is a little more secure than one with root password. EK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 22:28:44 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:28:44 -0500 Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld In-Reply-To: References: <4D599E21.10908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110214222844.GW347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 04:46:35PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote: > On 14 February 2011 16:26, James Knott wrote: > > http://www.infoworld.com/t/unix/nine-traits-the-veteran-unix-admin-276 > > While there's a fair amount of truth to the article, I found it read > more like "nine-reasons-why-im-cool." Come on - vim is the one true > vi? Yes, you have to know vi, but that next conclusion does not > follow. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE vim. But vim only fails to look > bloated because it's being compared to emacs. Vim is a 20MB package > these days! Not exactly ideal for small systems - and not generally a > default, either. I could continue quibbling, but I'll leave it at > that. vim certainly is pretty big once you add all the syntax highlighting and documentation. Of course you can turn off many features and end up with a much smaller vim too that is still very useful. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 22:29:38 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:29:38 -0500 Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld In-Reply-To: <4D599E21.10908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4D599E21.10908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110214222938.GX347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 04:26:57PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > http://www.infoworld.com/t/unix/nine-traits-the-veteran-unix-admin-276 Wow, I actually agree with all of it. In fact I personally do all of them without exception. That's a bit hard to believe. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 22:31:05 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:31:05 -0500 Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld In-Reply-To: <920852.74142.qm-JnPC7FIEsd35nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4D599E21.10908@rogers.com> <920852.74142.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110214223105.GY347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 02:09:14PM -0800, E K wrote: > That is funny but true! Particularly, the last one. > > Well, I use 'sudo bash' which is effectively is equivalent to su. Too lazy to assign a password to root:-) Also, a system without root password is a little more secure than one with root password. And how do you deal with 'you need to run fsck manually, please enter root password to continue'? sudo only is a nice theory, but no more than that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 22:45:59 2011 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:45:59 -0500 Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld In-Reply-To: <20110214223105.GY347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4D599E21.10908@rogers.com> <920852.74142.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20110214223105.GY347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: This is the exact reasoning I gave for needing to know root passwords at a recent job interview where the current admin said he didn't remember the last time he typed a root password. -jason On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 02:09:14PM -0800, E K wrote: > > That is funny but true! Particularly, the last one. > > > > Well, I use 'sudo bash' which is effectively is equivalent to su. Too > lazy to assign a password to root:-) Also, a system without root password is > a little more secure than one with root password. > > And how do you deal with 'you need to run fsck manually, please enter > root password to continue'? > > sudo only is a nice theory, but no more than that. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 14 23:16:43 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:16:43 -0500 Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld In-Reply-To: <20110214223105.GY347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4D599E21.10908@rogers.com> <920852.74142.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20110214223105.GY347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 02:09:14PM -0800, E K wrote: >> That is funny but true! Particularly, the last one. >> >> Well, I use 'sudo bash' which is effectively is equivalent to su. Too lazy to assign a password to root:-) Also, a system without root password is a little more secure than one with root password. > > And how do you deal with 'you need to run fsck manually, please enter > root password to continue'? > > sudo only is a nice theory, but no more than that. Sudo is fine if you have an environment that is sufficiently stable that all required actions are well documented. Unfortunately, that's not "true yet" at install time, and all bets are off if any kind of major disaster should strike. In the DBMS world, it is often desired to apply analogous kinds of policies to accesses by DB administrative users, but that doesn't always work. The fun bit of authentication policy that gets the "strong password freaks" really freaked out is to set up host based authentication such that for connections coming from certain places, there is no password required. What the "need strong password" folk tend to fail to grasp is that there are administrative processes that need to get in, and if they are required to use passwords, then you're stuck blathering copies of passwords onto all the servers, making them much more vulnerable to capture and abuse. They imagine that strong passwords are giving them stronger security, when reality is that they have to be passed around so much that the security is an illusion. Slavish overuse of sudo is much the same. It shoves the problem to a different spot, namely in: a) Managing the sudo configuration, and b) Granting users access to sudo. And if they need a zillion sudo rules, the likelihood of things breaking because you did it wrong goes way up. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 01:01:33 2011 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 20:01:33 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy Message-ID: Anyone catch Jeopardy tonight. It was the two best Jeopardy players (Ken Jennings and Brad Rutter) against an IBM Machine called Watson. http://www.jeopardy.com/minisites/watson/ It tied for first place in the first round. The second round will be played tomorrow. Very impressive. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 01:05:22 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 20:05:22 -0500 Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld In-Reply-To: <20110214223105.GY347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4D599E21.10908@rogers.com> <920852.74142.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20110214223105.GY347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110215010522.GA6029@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 05:31:05PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote > And how do you deal with 'you need to run fsck manually, please > enter root password to continue'? > > sudo only is a nice theory, but no more than that. I'd boot from a boot CD or USB stick, and run fsck from there. Having said that, I'm not doctrinaire about sudo. I've set up certain commands that I need on accasion to run via sudo, without a password. Here is my /etc/sudoers.d/001 on my machine (i3). Note that I'm the only person on my machine. And yes, I do have a password for root. # Copy appropriate ssmtp.conf for 295.ca and initiate dialup session waltdnes i3 = (root) NOPASSWD: /bin/cp -f /etc/ssmtp/295.ssmtp.conf /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf waltdnes i3 = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/pon u295.ca # End dialup session, and restore ssmtp.conf for Teksavvy waltdnes i3 = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/poff waltdnes i3 = (root) NOPASSWD: /bin/cp -f /etc/ssmtp/teksavvy.ssmtp.conf /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf # Get and set datetime, and save to hardware clock too waltdnes i3 = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/rdate time.nrc.ca -s waltdnes i3 = (root) NOPASSWD: /sbin/hwclock --systohc # hibernate/shutdown/reboot waltdnes i3 = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/hibernate waltdnes i3 = (root) NOPASSWD: /sbin/poweroff waltdnes i3 = (root) NOPASSWD: /sbin/reboot # For when I'm playing around with a USB stick or new USB drive waltdnes i3 = (root) NOPASSWD: /sbin/fdisk -l -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 03:04:34 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:04:34 -0500 Subject: Re-offer satellite hardware to give away Message-ID: To recap, last December 13th I offered 4 Echostar DP301 satellite receivers and a JVC 7400 satellite receiver for free on this list. The JVC and three of the Echostars went quickly, easily and painlessly. The last Echostar was requested by one of the people on this list, but for two months I've been getting reasons why this person can't come to my place, meet up at GTALug meetings, offers to take the receiver downtown (where this person lives) have been ignored, etc. .... I'm just tired of this. So, I'm re-offering an Echostar DP301 satellite receiver just take it off my hands in a way that is painless to me. Below is the summary I wrote in December about the receivers: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Several weeks ago I got several Echostar DP301 satellite receivers. Before getting them I had done a very quick search on "Echostar DP301" and "free" thinking these receivers could be used for FTA (Free To Air) use... Turns out folks with the DP301 talk free they are talking pirated stuff. I have no issues with the FTA stuff, where the signal is free with the blessing of the broadcaster, but I do have an issue with "free" as in pirated, just not a space I am interested in operating in... So, anyone on this list want to take one or more (up to four) Echostar DP301 satellite receivers off my hands? Also, I have one JVC 7400 satellite receiver with the same issues as the Echostar DP301 to get rid of. I have the boxes, without manuals / remote controls. If you want to play in pirate space, or are looking for parts to be stripped for other electronic projects I don't care, I just want these units gone with as little hassle to myself as possible. I will be at the GTALug meeting on 14th of Dec. and could bring the boxes there, or I would be game for other arrangements... If interested let me know how we could best cross paths. Colin. P.S. If anyone has a dish antenna suitable for FTA use (70+ cm) that they would like to get rid of, let me know as I could be very interested... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 03:32:23 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:32:23 -0500 Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld In-Reply-To: <20110215010522.GA6029-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4D599E21.10908@rogers.com> <920852.74142.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20110214223105.GY347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110215010522.GA6029@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4D59F3C7.8010607@utoronto.ca> On 2/14/2011 8:05 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 05:31:05PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote > >> And how do you deal with 'you need to run fsck manually, please >> enter root password to continue'? >> >> sudo only is a nice theory, but no more than that. > > I'd boot from a boot CD or USB stick, and run fsck from there. Having > said that, I'm not doctrinaire about sudo. I've set up certain commands > that I need on accasion to run via sudo, without a password. Here is my > /etc/sudoers.d/001 on my machine (i3). Note that I'm the only person on > my machine. And yes, I do have a password for root. Easier to boot using init=/bin/bash as an argument (on the kernel line) in Grub. fsck can then be run since / will be mounted ro. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 15:37:54 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 10:37:54 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110215153754.GZ347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 08:01:33PM -0500, Jason Carson wrote: > Anyone catch Jeopardy tonight. It was the two best Jeopardy players (Ken > Jennings and Brad Rutter) against an IBM Machine called Watson. > > http://www.jeopardy.com/minisites/watson/ > > It tied for first place in the first round. The second round will be > played tomorrow. Very impressive. Yeah that was neat. Interesting to see watson's top three answers. Even when it didn't buzz in first it usually had the right answer ranked highest. A few times it had the right answer at a lower rank, and sometimes it was just totally off in the weeds and didn't even have an answer that was valid for the category (like a year for a category asking for decades). Also too bad it has no way to know what other players answered if they get it wrong (hence the duplicate answer provided). It seems to only get the clue, whether its answer is right or wrong, and what the right answer was. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 17:27:30 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 12:27:30 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> Jason Carson wrote: > Anyone catch Jeopardy tonight. It was the two best Jeopardy players (Ken > Jennings and Brad Rutter) against an IBM Machine called Watson. I don't watch Jeopardy with any regularity. The website indicates there have been promos for this over the last month or two. Its the first time I have heard about it and one of my parents who watches the program every night didn't think to mention it to me. Thanks for mentioning this, Jason. I have set up MythTV to record the next two episodes. I'll do some looking on the net to try and find the first episode. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 18:02:05 2011 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:02:05 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In case anyone was wondering, it runs Linux... http://www.novell.com/promo/suse/ibm-watson.html > Anyone catch Jeopardy tonight. It was the two best Jeopardy players (Ken > Jennings and Brad Rutter) against an IBM Machine called Watson. > > http://www.jeopardy.com/minisites/watson/ > > It tied for first place in the first round. The second round will be > played tomorrow. Very impressive. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From solarflow99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 18:55:18 2011 From: solarflow99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (solarflow99) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:55:18 -0500 Subject: Re-offer satellite hardware to give away In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: can anyone do pirated TV anymore? it used to run rampant for the longest time ever since bell express vu came out. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > To recap, last December 13th I offered 4 Echostar DP301 satellite > receivers and a JVC 7400 satellite receiver for free on this list. The > JVC and three of the Echostars went quickly, easily and painlessly. > The last Echostar was requested by one of the people on this list, but > for two months I've been getting reasons why this person can't come to > my place, meet up at GTALug meetings, offers to take the receiver > downtown (where this person lives) have been ignored, etc. .... I'm > just tired of this. So, I'm re-offering an Echostar DP301 satellite > receiver just take it off my hands in a way that is painless to me. > Below is the summary I wrote in December about the receivers: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Several weeks ago I got several Echostar DP301 satellite receivers. > Before getting them I had done a very quick search on "Echostar DP301" > and "free" thinking these receivers could be used for FTA (Free To > Air) use... Turns out folks with the DP301 talk free they are talking > pirated stuff. I have no issues with the FTA stuff, where the signal > is free with the blessing of the broadcaster, but I do have an issue > with "free" as in pirated, just not a space I am interested in > operating in... > > So, anyone on this list want to take one or more (up to four) Echostar > DP301 satellite receivers off my hands? Also, I have one JVC 7400 > satellite receiver with the same issues as the Echostar DP301 to get > rid of. I have the boxes, without manuals / remote controls. If you > want to play in pirate space, or are looking for parts to be stripped > for other electronic projects I don't care, I just want these units > gone with as little hassle to myself as possible. I will be at the > GTALug meeting on 14th of Dec. and could bring the boxes there, or I > would be game for other arrangements... > > If interested let me know how we could best cross paths. > > > Colin. > > P.S. If anyone has a dish antenna suitable for FTA use (70+ cm) that > they would like to get rid of, let me know as I could be very > interested... > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 18:59:39 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:59:39 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <4D5AB782.9070207-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Thanks for mentioning this, Jason. I have set up MythTV to record the next > two episodes. I'll do some looking on the net to try and find the first > episode. It's on YouTube: (via BoingBoing ) Cheers, -- ? Scott Elcomb ? http://www.psema4.com/?? @psema4 ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 19:03:28 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:03:28 -0500 Subject: Re-offer satellite hardware to give away In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:55 PM, solarflow99 wrote: > can anyone do pirated TV anymore? ?it used to run rampant for the > longest time ever since bell express vu came out. A few Google searches tell me that pirated TV is still happening. How common it is I don't know (and to be blunt I don't think I want to know...). Colin McGregor > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> To recap, last December 13th I offered 4 Echostar DP301 satellite >> receivers and a JVC 7400 satellite receiver for free on this list. The >> JVC and three of the Echostars went quickly, easily and painlessly. >> The last Echostar was requested by one of the people on this list, but >> for two months I've been getting reasons why this person can't come to >> my place, meet up at GTALug meetings, offers to take the receiver >> downtown (where this person lives) have been ignored, etc. .... I'm >> just tired of this. So, I'm re-offering an Echostar DP301 satellite >> receiver just take it off my hands in a way that is painless to me. >> Below is the summary I wrote in December about the receivers: >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Several weeks ago I got several Echostar DP301 satellite receivers. >> Before getting them I had done a very quick search on "Echostar DP301" >> and "free" thinking these receivers could be used for FTA (Free To >> Air) use... Turns out folks with the DP301 talk free they are talking >> pirated stuff. I have no issues with the FTA stuff, where the signal >> is free with the blessing of the broadcaster, but I do have an issue >> with "free" as in pirated, just not a space I am interested in >> operating in... >> >> So, anyone on this list want to take one or more (up to four) Echostar >> DP301 satellite receivers off my hands? Also, I have one JVC 7400 >> satellite receiver with the same issues as the Echostar DP301 to get >> rid of. I have the boxes, without manuals / remote controls. If you >> want to play in pirate space, or are looking for parts to be stripped >> for other electronic projects I don't care, I just want these units >> gone with as little hassle to myself as possible. I will be at the >> GTALug meeting on 14th of Dec. and could bring the boxes there, or I >> would be game for other arrangements... >> >> If interested let me know how we could best cross paths. >> >> >> Colin. >> >> P.S. If anyone has a dish antenna suitable for FTA use (70+ cm) that >> they would like to get rid of, let me know as I could be very >> interested... >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From solarflow99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 19:10:49 2011 From: solarflow99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (solarflow99) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:10:49 -0500 Subject: Re-offer satellite hardware to give away In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:55 PM, solarflow99 wrote: >> can anyone do pirated TV anymore? ?it used to run rampant for the >> longest time ever since bell express vu came out. > > A few Google searches tell me that pirated TV is still happening. How > common it is I don't know (and to be blunt I don't think I want to > know...). haha, the swat team is going to break in and come for you now.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 21:54:58 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:54:58 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> Scott Elcomb wrote: > It's on YouTube: > > (via BoingBoing > ) Thanks, but the first was a nice background piece on Watson and the second was a practice session. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 22:02:45 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:02:45 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <4D5AF632.7060905-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Scott Elcomb wrote: >> >> It's on YouTube: >> >> (via BoingBoing >> ) > > Thanks, but the first was a nice background piece on Watson and the second > was a practice session. I didn't verify the link, but FTA: "Over at PBS NewsHour, science correspondent Miles O'Brien did a fun piece where he challenged the machine to a "Jeopardy!" duel. The segment aired last night, and is embedded above (video link / transcript). As an aside, the piece includes often-Boinged personalities Marvin Minsky and Ray Kurzweil, and as a bonus, includes some wonderful old sci-fi film clips (can you ID them all?)" where "is embedded above" points to the first link. I simply took the author at their word and posted. Sorry 'bout that. -- ? Scott Elcomb ? http://www.psema4.com/?? @psema4 ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 15 23:42:21 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 18:42:21 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <4D5AF632.7060905-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 04:54:58PM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Thanks, but the first was a nice background piece on Watson and the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PSPvHcLnN0 is the first half of the show. The game starts about 6:30 in. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 00:45:16 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 19:45:16 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <20110215234221.GA347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PSPvHcLnN0 is the first half of the show. > The game starts about 6:30 in. Brilliant. Thank you, Lennart. By checking the other postings of the person who uploaded part 1 I found part 2. For anyone else interested, the URL is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtHlxzOXgYs -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 04:22:16 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 23:22:16 -0500 Subject: Re-offer satellite hardware to give away In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just to note this hardware has now been taken. Thanks. Colin. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > To recap, last December 13th I offered 4 Echostar DP301 satellite > receivers and a JVC 7400 satellite receiver for free on this list. The > JVC and three of the Echostars went quickly, easily and painlessly. > The last Echostar was requested by one of the people on this list, but > for two months I've been getting reasons why this person can't come to > my place, meet up at GTALug meetings, offers to take the receiver > downtown (where this person lives) have been ignored, etc. .... I'm > just tired of this. So, I'm re-offering an Echostar DP301 satellite > receiver just take it off my hands in a way that is painless to me. > Below is the summary I wrote in December about the receivers: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Several weeks ago I got several Echostar DP301 satellite receivers. > Before getting them I had done a very quick search on "Echostar DP301" > and "free" thinking these receivers could be used for FTA (Free To > Air) use... Turns out folks with the DP301 talk free they are talking > pirated stuff. I have no issues with the FTA stuff, where the signal > is free with the blessing of the broadcaster, but I do have an issue > with "free" as in pirated, just not a space I am interested in > operating in... > > So, anyone on this list want to take one or more (up to four) Echostar > DP301 satellite receivers off my hands? Also, I have one JVC 7400 > satellite receiver with the same issues as the Echostar DP301 to get > rid of. I have the boxes, without manuals / remote controls. If you > want to play in pirate space, or are looking for parts to be stripped > for other electronic projects I don't care, I just want these units > gone with as little hassle to myself as possible. I will be at the > GTALug meeting on 14th of Dec. and could bring the boxes there, or I > would be game for other arrangements... > > If interested let me know how we could best cross paths. > > > Colin. > > P.S. If anyone has a dish antenna suitable for FTA use (70+ cm) that > they would like to get rid of, let me know as I could be very > interested... > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From web-d7rjRpVnz4HL3mmD008VJw at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 06:04:04 2011 From: web-d7rjRpVnz4HL3mmD008VJw at public.gmane.org (Ellie Frost) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 01:04:04 -0500 Subject: Software to forward to SMS/receive from SMS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 13 February 2011 15:59, Thomas Milne wrote: > Can anyone recommend software that lets me do fun things with SMS? > Like perhaps sending messages to and/or from my home computer, or > otherwise interacting with a home system over SMS? > > At first I was just looking for a way to get e-mail to SMS, but I > found this list: > > http://tuxmobil.org/phones_linux_sms.html > > and some of it sounds kinda fun. Just don't want to 'trial and error' > if someone already has some experience :-) I've seen a couple of neat hacks [1][2] using a web service called Twilio (twilio.com). It's basically a web gateway that allows you to easily integrate voice/sms into other applications. It's not free (as is to be expected, really) but you get 1500 free texts off the bat ($30 / .02/message) that should be enough for quite a while. Ellie [1] http://anerroroccurredwhileprocessingthisdirective.com/2011/01/01/opening-a-door-via-text-message/ [2] http://sunlightlabs.com/blog/2010/more-about-door/ > -- > TBM > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 12:34:01 2011 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 07:34:01 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <4D5B1E1C.1020509-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> On 11-02-15 07:45 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PSPvHcLnN0 is the first half of the >> show. >> The game starts about 6:30 in. > > Brilliant. Thank you, Lennart. By checking the other postings of the > person who uploaded part 1 I found part 2. For anyone else interested, > the URL is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtHlxzOXgYs I watched last nights episode. Very impressive. I will not mention details of the results but it was hilarious at some points. I have my DVR set to record tonight's episode. Hopefully IBM is serious about utilizing this technology to help people. What would be totally amazing if some philanthropist would buy out the technology and make it open source. Imagine every hospital having their own Dr House on staff that gets the diagnoses correct in the first minute. It might might make for boring TV but quality of life and wait times would surely go down. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 12:51:05 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 07:51:05 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <4D5BC439.6000402-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> On 11-02-16 07:34 , John Myshrall wrote: > > I watched last nights episode. Very impressive. Yeah, but now a computer can do it, it's another thing we don't need to. Like long division. Kind of reminds me of this comic from a local artist: (caution, mild swearies) Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 15:40:27 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:40:27 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <4D5BC839.2050904-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 11-02-16 07:34 , John Myshrall wrote: >> >> I watched last nights episode. Very impressive. > > Yeah, but now a computer can do it, it's another thing we don't need to. > Like long division. Well, I watched it as well. Good show, but of course where the computer got things wrong was arguably more interesting than where it was right, which last night included the final question. For those who don't watch Jeopardy, contestants have to come up with questions that would solicit the answers given by the show host, Alex Trebek... Last night's final answer was: U.S. CITIES: ITS LARGEST AIRPORT NAMED FOR A WORLD WAR II HERO; ITS SECOND LARGEST FOR A WORLD WAR II BATTLE The two human players came up with "What is Chicago?", the computer came up with "What is Toronto????". Now, the final answer didn't matter in this case, as the computer had built up enough of a lead in the first part of the program that a wrong question at the end didn't stop the machine from winning. Still, lets see, Toronto is: - Not a U.S. city - Largest airport named after former Prime Minister Person, who during World War II was a diplomat (not a World War II hero). - Officially the Island airport is named after Billy Bishop, a World War I (not World War II) fighter pilot and combat hero. In other words fails on all points. One could sort of understand a response like say New York City where two of the three points are satisfied: - A U.S. city - Largest airport named after President Kennedy who during World War II commanded PT-109 and saw combat (so, not what he is best known for, but a World War II hero) - Second largest airport LaGuardia is named after a former Mayor Colin. > Kind of reminds me of this comic from a local artist: > > (caution, mild swearies) > > ?Stewart > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 15:56:38 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:56:38 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110216155638.GB347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:40:27AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Well, I watched it as well. Good show, but of course where the > computer got things wrong was arguably more interesting than where it > was right, which last night included the final question. For those who > don't watch Jeopardy, contestants have to come up with questions that > would solicit the answers given by the show host, Alex Trebek... > > Last night's final answer was: > > U.S. CITIES: ITS LARGEST AIRPORT NAMED FOR A WORLD WAR II HERO; ITS > SECOND LARGEST FOR A WORLD WAR II BATTLE > > The two human players came up with "What is Chicago?", the computer > came up with "What is Toronto????". Now, the final answer didn't > matter in this case, as the computer had built up enough of a lead in > the first part of the program that a wrong question at the end didn't > stop the machine from winning. Still, lets see, Toronto is: > > - Not a U.S. city > - Largest airport named after former Prime Minister Person, who during > World War II was a diplomat (not a World War II hero). > - Officially the Island airport is named after Billy Bishop, a World > War I (not World War II) fighter pilot and combat hero. > > In other words fails on all points. One could sort of understand a > response like say New York City where two of the three points are > satisfied: > > - A U.S. city > - Largest airport named after President Kennedy who during World War > II commanded PT-109 and saw combat (so, not what he is best known for, > but a World War II hero) > - Second largest airport LaGuardia is named after a former Mayor In watson's defence, it did put a lot of question marks to indicate it was not at all happy with its answer. Now the fact Toronto is a rather unique city name in the world, and doesn't fit the category, one would have thought it could have found a better guess. Still the fact it knew it was almost certainly wrong is important. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 16:07:14 2011 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:07:14 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D5BF632.3080404@yaknet.ca> On 11-02-16 10:40 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: >> On 11-02-16 07:34 , John Myshrall wrote: >>> I watched last nights episode. Very impressive. >> Yeah, but now a computer can do it, it's another thing we don't need to. >> Like long division. > Well, I watched it as well. Good show, but of course where the > computer got things wrong was arguably more interesting than where it > was right, which last night included the final question. For those who > don't watch Jeopardy, contestants have to come up with questions that > would solicit the answers given by the show host, Alex Trebek... > > Last night's final answer was: > > U.S. CITIES: ITS LARGEST AIRPORT NAMED FOR A WORLD WAR II HERO; ITS > SECOND LARGEST FOR A WORLD WAR II BATTLE > > The two human players came up with "What is Chicago?", the computer > came up with "What is Toronto????". Now, the final answer didn't > matter in this case, as the computer had built up enough of a lead in > the first part of the program that a wrong question at the end didn't > stop the machine from winning. Still, lets see, Toronto is: > > - Not a U.S. city > - Largest airport named after former Prime Minister Person, who during > World War II was a diplomat (not a World War II hero). > - Officially the Island airport is named after Billy Bishop, a World > War I (not World War II) fighter pilot and combat hero. > > In other words fails on all points. One could sort of understand a > response like say New York City where two of the three points are > satisfied: > > - A U.S. city > - Largest airport named after President Kennedy who during World War > II commanded PT-109 and saw combat (so, not what he is best known for, > but a World War II hero) > - Second largest airport LaGuardia is named after a former Mayor > > Colin. > >> Kind of reminds me of this comic from a local artist: >> >> (caution, mild swearies) >> >> Stewart >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > OK I didn't let the cat out of the bag about what happened you did. ;-) I wonder if Watson was joking or being merciful if that is even remotely possible or that someone on IBM intervened. Watson pwned the entire match. IIRC the only other wrong answer it gave, the other contestants got wrong as well. Toronto was so far out in left field it fails on the first litmus test. The answer was followed by many question marks and it only wager <$1000.00 yet it had a $25000.00 lead. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 16:31:01 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:31:01 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <4D5BF632.3080404-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> <4D5BF632.3080404@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <20110216163101.GC347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:07:14AM -0500, John Myshrall wrote: > OK I didn't let the cat out of the bag about what happened you did. ;-) > > I wonder if Watson was joking or being merciful if that is even remotely > possible or that someone on IBM intervened. Watson pwned the entire > match. IIRC the only other wrong answer it gave, the other contestants > got wrong as well. > > Toronto was so far out in left field it fails on the first litmus test. > The answer was followed by many question marks and it only wager > <$1000.00 yet it had a $25000.00 lead. Final jeopardy is much harder, so why bet very much? It is a very common tactic to bet very little when you have a huge lead. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 16:34:56 2011 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:34:56 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <4D5BF632.3080404-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> <4D5BF632.3080404@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <20110216163456.GA22910@amber> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:07:14AM -0500, John Myshrall wrote: > Toronto was so far out in left field it fails on the first litmus test. > The answer was followed by many question marks and it only wager > <$1000.00 yet it had a $25000.00 lead. Ahhh, you're not a diehard Jeopardy fan! The rules are that you make your Final Jeopardy wager after you know the category, but before you hear the "answer" to which you respond with a "question". Note that Watson came up with an incorrect answer on Monday that similarly ignored the information included in the category -- I think it was a single year for a category that needed a response by a decade. I've been very impressed by Watson's ability to parse natural-language queries of almost all sorts (puns, jokes, riddles, etc.). That's a large step towards passing the Turing Test. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 16:52:41 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:52:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: For the 3D animators, $10 & $40 deal on messiahStudio5 Message-ID: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel@acheron.ss.org> Seems the makers of messiahStudio5 decide to try an alternate pricing model based on reaching a minimum goal of interested parties. This goal has been reached. There might be some in the crowd that would like to take a stab at 3D animating and this deal puts the software in the impulse Buy category. Normally I'd opt for an Open Source Application like Blender, but I'm picking up a copy because Linux under Wine is explicitly supported. At the time of this email the Deal has only a little over 11 hours left. http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shop.html -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 17:14:16 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:14:16 -0500 Subject: For the 3D animators, $10 & $40 deal on messiahStudio5 In-Reply-To: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: thanks, just grabbed the 40$ version (who could resist). tl On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:52 AM, wrote: > Seems the makers of messiahStudio5 decide to try an alternate pricing > model based on reaching a minimum goal of interested parties. This goal > has been reached. > > There might be some in the crowd that would like to take a stab at 3D > animating and this deal puts the software in the impulse Buy category. > > Normally I'd opt for an Open Source Application like Blender, but I'm > picking up a copy because Linux under Wine is explicitly supported. > > At the time of this email the Deal has only a little over 11 hours left. > > http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shop.html > -- > Scott Sullivan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 17:22:45 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:22:45 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <20110216163456.GA22910@amber> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> <4D5BF632.3080404@yaknet.ca> <20110216163456.GA22910@amber> Message-ID: <20110216172245.GD347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:34:56AM -0500, Peter King wrote: > Ahhh, you're not a diehard Jeopardy fan! The rules are that you make your > Final Jeopardy wager after you know the category, but before you hear the > "answer" to which you respond with a "question". > > Note that Watson came up with an incorrect answer on Monday that similarly > ignored the information included in the category -- I think it was a single > year for a category that needed a response by a decade. That's right, but it was not certain enough to even buzz in in that case. > I've been very impressed by Watson's ability to parse natural-language > queries of almost all sorts (puns, jokes, riddles, etc.). That's a large > step towards passing the Turing Test. It very well might already be better at that than some humans. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 18:15:20 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 13:15:20 -0500 Subject: For the 3D animators, $10 & $40 deal on messiahStudio5 In-Reply-To: References: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 12:14 PM, ted leslie wrote: > thanks, just grabbed the 40$ version (who could resist). I couldn't justify pro version, but I did grab the basic $10 version. Thanks Scott! -- ? Scott Elcomb ? http://www.psema4.com/?? @psema4 ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 19:39:15 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:39:15 -0500 Subject: For the 3D animators, $10 & $40 deal on messiahStudio5 In-Reply-To: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: <4D5C27E3.30304@ve3syb.ca> scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Seems the makers of messiahStudio5 decide to try an alternate pricing > model based on reaching a minimum goal of interested parties. Looks like an interesting package. Of course, if you want (or need) to do animation involving hair or fur you need the "expensive" pro package. It is certainly tempting to pick up the package as an impulse buy. It would be nice to have the hair and fur features and point animation module but I'd probably just go for the $10 version. I'm not sure if/when I would have the time to do much with it. I still want to spend more time with Blender one of these days. One thing I can't determine from their website. What file formats can the program import/export? I wonder if it would fit in with a workflow involving Rhino and Blender. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 19:53:50 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:53:50 -0500 Subject: For the 3D animators, $10 & $40 deal on messiahStudio5 In-Reply-To: <4D5C27E3.30304-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel@acheron.ss.org> <4D5C27E3.30304@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: when i installed it gave license issue, i emailed them, they said they are swamped and don't expect license until Saturday. (i am fine with that) I debated value of purchase, i first i thought they probably have V6 right around corner, but googing shows v5 is very recent, so I think the 40$ gets one a viable recent release software for a couple of years. i wonder if they were facing financial issues and this plan saved their bacon. I also wonder if one could sell the license on ebay for 100$ a bit later if one doesn't use it much, and make 60$? tl On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:39 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >> Seems the makers of messiahStudio5 decide to try an alternate pricing >> model based on reaching a minimum goal of interested parties. > > Looks like an interesting package. Of course, if you want (or need) to do > animation involving hair or fur you need the "expensive" pro package. It is > certainly tempting to pick up the package as an impulse buy. It would be > nice to have the hair and fur features and point animation module but I'd > probably just go for the $10 version. I'm not sure if/when I would have the > time to do much with it. I still want to spend more time with Blender one of > these days. > > One thing I can't determine from their website. What file formats can the > program import/export? I wonder if it would fit in with a workflow involving > Rhino and Blender. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 20:41:05 2011 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:41:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld In-Reply-To: <20110214223105.GY347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110214223105.GY347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <174769.67128.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 2/14/11, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > From: Lennart Sorensen > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Monday, February 14, 2011, 5:31 PM > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 02:09:14PM > -0800, E K wrote: > > That is funny but true! Particularly, the last one. > > > > Well, I use 'sudo bash' which is effectively is > equivalent to su. Too lazy to assign a password to root:-) > Also, a system without root password is a little more secure > than one with root password. > > And how do you deal with 'you need to run fsck manually, > please enter > root password to continue'? > Never gotten that. But, live CD's and compact distros like puppy are for times like that. > sudo only is a nice theory, but no more than that. > > -- > Len Sorensen Well, we have different views on sudo. I think of it as a way of renaming the supper username from root, others use it to elevate privilege every time they need it and clearly you don't like it. That is why someone said "Unix is different for different people. it is never everything for anyone." EK > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 21:35:26 2011 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 16:35:26 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <4D5BF632.3080404-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> <4D5BF632.3080404@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <4D5C431E.5050704@rogers.com> On 16/02/11 11:07 AM, John Myshrall wrote: > > I wonder if Watson was joking or being merciful if that is even remotely > possible or that someone on IBM intervened. I had the same feeling - that some person put the brakes on. With so many right answers prior, it seems impossible that its best guess would be Toronto. Any U.S. city with two airports would have been a better guess. There weren't many opportunities to observe the response when the machine is actually stumped. Maybe this is the fail safe response - try and be funny. > Toronto was so far out in left field it fails on the first litmus test. > The answer was followed by many question marks and it only wager > <$1000.00 yet it had a $25000.00 lead. I thought the final wager was way too low. The previous "double jeopardy" wagers seemed too low, as well. I don't think any human player would have bet so low, knowing how the game has been going, and their own abilities. I didn't see the first show, so I can't figure out how the humans could have been so close in score from the previous day. It seemed to me that some fine tuning had gone on between the first day and the second day, to maximize the response time. It seemed to me that the computer had super-human ability to hit the buzzer as soon as it had it's response ready. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 21:53:18 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 16:53:18 -0500 Subject: Nine traits of the veteran Unix admin | Unix - InfoWorld In-Reply-To: <174769.67128.qm-RAMfZiXnulf5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20110214223105.GY347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <174769.67128.qm@web65614.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110216215318.GE347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 12:41:05PM -0800, E K wrote: > Never gotten that. But, live CD's and compact distros like puppy are for times like that. > > Well, we have different views on sudo. I think of it as a way of renaming the supper username from root, others use it to elevate privilege every time they need it and clearly you don't like it. That is why someone said "Unix is different for different people. it is never everything for anyone." sudo has a few good uses. But if I actually need to do a few things as root, I will 'su -' then do stuff as root, then exit. Having to type the password to su to me means I don't do stuff as root without thinking. sudo actually makes becoming root too easy and sticking sudo in front of things can become a bad habit. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 16 21:56:03 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 16:56:03 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <4D5C431E.5050704-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> <4D5BF632.3080404@yaknet.ca> <4D5C431E.5050704@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110216215603.GF347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 04:35:26PM -0500, Yanni Chiu wrote: > On 16/02/11 11:07 AM, John Myshrall wrote: >> >> I wonder if Watson was joking or being merciful if that is even remotely >> possible or that someone on IBM intervened. > > I had the same feeling - that some person put the brakes on. With so > many right answers prior, it seems impossible that its best guess would > be Toronto. Any U.S. city with two airports would have been a better > guess. > > There weren't many opportunities to observe the response when the > machine is actually stumped. Maybe this is the fail safe response - try > and be funny. > >> Toronto was so far out in left field it fails on the first litmus test. >> The answer was followed by many question marks and it only wager >> <$1000.00 yet it had a $25000.00 lead. > > I thought the final wager was way too low. The previous "double > jeopardy" wagers seemed too low, as well. I don't think any human player > would have bet so low, knowing how the game has been going, and their > own abilities. Remember that for final jeopardy and daily doubles, you have to bet before you know the clue. That's risky. With normal clues you only have to buzz in and take a chance if you are fairly sure of your answer. The final jeopardy bet was actually very much in line with how humans often bet when they have a huge lead. > I didn't see the first show, so I can't figure out how the humans could > have been so close in score from the previous day. It seemed to me that > some fine tuning had gone on between the first day and the second day, > to maximize the response time. It seemed to me that the computer had > super-human ability to hit the buzzer as soon as it had it's response > ready. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 00:17:36 2011 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 19:17:36 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D5C6920.4020402@gmail.com> On 16/02/11 10:40, Colin McGregor wrote: ------------ cut -------------------------- > The two human players came up with "What is Chicago?", the computer > came up with "What is Toronto????". Now, the final answer didn't > matter in this case, as the computer had built up enough of a lead in > the first part of the program that a wrong question at the end didn't > stop the machine from winning. Still, lets see, Toronto is: > > - Not a U.S. city > - Largest airport named after former Prime Minister Person, who during > World War II was a diplomat (not a World War II hero). > - Officially the Island airport is named after Billy Bishop, a World > War I (not World War II) fighter pilot and combat hero. > ----------------------------------- cut -------------------------------- There is a Toronto OH: http://osm.org/go/ZWnI_h -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 00:41:53 2011 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 19:41:53 -0500 Subject: No pre-compiled kernel images in Debian more recent than 2.6.32? Message-ID: Why are there - as of 2011.02.16 - no pre-compiled kernel images in Debian more recent than 2.6.32? Not even in "experimental"? I have a netbook that I have freshly installed Debian unstable and there are known issues with xserver-xorg-video-intel and the 2.6.32 kernel. I want to run a more recent kernel and I have compiled from source downloaded from kernel.org in the past and created a *.deb and installed for my local system ... but then I lose all those useful Debian kernel patches. Most recent stable version is 2.6.37. What are some preferred methods used by Debian users to run more recent kernels? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 04:02:27 2011 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:02:27 +1000 Subject: anyone running a diaspora server? Message-ID: I'm about to install one on my sheevaplug, just to see how it stacks up against facebook. is anyone out there running diaspora, or using it for social networking purposes? any creative ideas on how to increase uptake in the general facebook user world (i.e. amongst those who only just realized that everyone could look at their albums because they didn't bother with privacy settings)? most of the people i want to socially network with are many things, but security/tech savvy is rarely one of them. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 14:10:48 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 09:10:48 -0500 Subject: DIY Cluster... In-Reply-To: References: <2D7219A2CC9B494AA3E0B17D6373F3D7@scaffold> Message-ID: Lee Andrew MacNeill is putting together a cluster at FreeGeek Toronto (near Keele and Dundas St. W.) and is looking for people who would be interested in cluster building. The project has technical and non-technical facets, so all skillsets are welcome. Anyone interested in helping should drop Lee at note at: cq585-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 15:24:44 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 07:24:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: DIY Cluster... In-Reply-To: References: <2D7219A2CC9B494AA3E0B17D6373F3D7@scaffold> Message-ID: <601854.60418.qm@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> What kind of "cluster"? -- William ----- Original Message ---- > From: Colin McGregor > To: tlug > Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 9:10:48 AM > Subject: [TLUG]: DIY Cluster... > > Lee Andrew MacNeill is putting together a cluster at FreeGeek Toronto > (near Keele and Dundas St. W.) and is looking for people who would be > interested in cluster building. > > The project has technical and non-technical facets, so all skillsets > are welcome. > > Anyone interested in helping should drop Lee at note at: cq585-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org > > > Colin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 16:05:06 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:05:06 -0500 Subject: No pre-compiled kernel images in Debian more recent than 2.6.32? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110217160506.GG347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 07:41:53PM -0500, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: > Why are there - as of 2011.02.16 - no pre-compiled kernel images in Debian > more recent than 2.6.32? Not even in "experimental"? I already got 2.6.35, and later 2.6.37-rc from experimental. Since they are not there currently, the kernel team must have removed them for some reason. > I have a netbook that I have freshly installed Debian unstable and there are > known issues with xserver-xorg-video-intel and the 2.6.32 kernel. I want to > run a more recent kernel and I have compiled from source downloaded from > kernel.org in the past and created a *.deb and installed for my local system > ... but then I lose all those useful Debian kernel patches. > > Most recent stable version is 2.6.37. What are some preferred methods used > by Debian users to run more recent kernels? Wait for it to hit unstable (or experimental if you are desperate). You could make your own using make-kpkg, but that's a lot more work. Now in this case it turns out it disappeard from experimental because it is in the middle of being uploaded to unstable. You can find it here until that happens: http://snapshot.debian.org/package/linux-2.6/2.6.37-1/ -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 16:29:14 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:29:14 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <4D5C6920.4020402-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> <4D5C6920.4020402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D5D4CDA.1010209@ve3syb.ca> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > There is a Toronto OH: > > http://osm.org/go/ZWnI_h Change zoom to 12 when using that link and you will see it. So we learn something new. Toronto was still wrong as it doesn't seem to have any airports. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 16:36:33 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:36:33 -0500 Subject: DIY Cluster... In-Reply-To: References: <2D7219A2CC9B494AA3E0B17D6373F3D7@scaffold> Message-ID: <4D5D4E91.1030502@ve3syb.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > Lee Andrew MacNeill is putting together a cluster at FreeGeek Toronto > (near Keele and Dundas St. W.) and is looking for people who would be > interested in cluster building. IIRC, there was a Google Summer of Code project to create a bootable CD to create a cluster. It might be worth a look. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 16:43:57 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:43:57 -0500 Subject: For the 3D animators, $10 & $40 deal on messiahStudio5 In-Reply-To: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: <4D5D504D.7020802@ve3syb.ca> scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Seems the makers of messiahStudio5 decide to try an alternate pricing > model based on reaching a minimum goal of interested parties. This goal > has been reached. [snip] > At the time of this email the Deal has only a little over 11 hours left. > > http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shop.html Its been almost 24 hours since the above was posted and the web page is still showing the reduced price. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 16:58:18 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:58:18 -0500 Subject: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? Message-ID: <4D5D53AA.8070008@ve3syb.ca> Greetings, all. My father has asked me about installing Linux on his computer. I'm not sure what sparked the request but I'm happy to set it up to dual boot. His computer is running Windows 7. I booted the machine using a live CD of Ubuntu and verified that everything appeared to be working including the printer and the WiFi adapter. My concern is about whether the OEM version of Windows 7 that came with the machine is going to complain about the change in partitions and/or partition sizes and think it may not be an authentic install of the MS OS. I am hoping it is ok but I read about issues with recent versions of Windows and how some (a few?) system changes can lead to requiring the purchase of a new copy of Windows as it will no longer accept its a valid copy running on the same system. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 17:02:55 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 12:02:55 -0500 Subject: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? In-Reply-To: <4D5D53AA.8070008-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5D53AA.8070008@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4D5D54BF.9010409@alteeve.com> On 02/17/2011 11:58 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Greetings, all. > > My father has asked me about installing Linux on his computer. I'm not > sure what sparked the request but I'm happy to set it up to dual boot. > His computer is running Windows 7. I booted the machine using a live CD > of Ubuntu and verified that everything appeared to be working including > the printer and the WiFi adapter. > > My concern is about whether the OEM version of Windows 7 that came with > the machine is going to complain about the change in partitions and/or > partition sizes and think it may not be an authentic install of the MS OS. > > I am hoping it is ok but I read about issues with recent versions of > Windows and how some (a few?) system changes can lead to requiring the > purchase of a new copy of Windows as it will no longer accept its a > valid copy running on the same system. I've shrunken it in the past with success. Of course, always ensure a good backup is done before hand. Also, if the system didn't come with the windows recovery disks, generate them before starting. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 17:20:43 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 12:20:43 -0500 Subject: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? In-Reply-To: <4D5D53AA.8070008-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5D53AA.8070008@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20110217172043.GH347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:58:18AM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: > My father has asked me about installing Linux on his computer. I'm not > sure what sparked the request but I'm happy to set it up to dual boot. > His computer is running Windows 7. I booted the machine using a live CD > of Ubuntu and verified that everything appeared to be working including > the printer and the WiFi adapter. > > My concern is about whether the OEM version of Windows 7 that came with > the machine is going to complain about the change in partitions and/or > partition sizes and think it may not be an authentic install of the MS > OS. > > I am hoping it is ok but I read about issues with recent versions of > Windows and how some (a few?) system changes can lead to requiring the > purchase of a new copy of Windows as it will no longer accept its a valid > copy running on the same system. If you use windows itself to shrink the disk, it certainly won't complain. Other tools might upset the boot loader (which can then be fixed using a bootable windows 7 repair disk). http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows7/Create-a-system-repair-disc Some installations can't do that for some reason, but there are plenty of iso images out there that people have put up that you can use. So after resizing with something other than windows' storage manager, you would probably have to use the 'repair boot' option on the recovery disc. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 18:55:03 2011 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:55:03 -0500 Subject: No pre-compiled kernel images in Debian more recent than 2.6.32? In-Reply-To: <20110217160506.GG347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110217160506.GG347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 07:41:53PM -0500, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: >> Why are there - as of 2011.02.16 - no pre-compiled kernel images in Debian >> more recent than 2.6.32? Not even in "experimental"? > > I already got 2.6.35, and later 2.6.37-rc from experimental. ?Since they > are not there currently, the kernel team must have removed them for > some reason. > >> I have a netbook that I have freshly installed Debian unstable and there are >> known issues with xserver-xorg-video-intel and the 2.6.32 kernel. I want to >> run a more recent kernel and I have compiled from source downloaded from >> kernel.org in the past and created a *.deb and installed for my local system >> ... but then I lose all those useful Debian kernel patches. >> >> Most recent stable version is 2.6.37. What are some preferred methods used >> by Debian users to run more recent kernels? > > Wait for it to hit unstable (or experimental if you are desperate). > > You could make your own using make-kpkg, but that's a lot more work. > > Now in this case it turns out it disappeard from experimental because > it is in the middle of being uploaded to unstable. ?You can find it here > until that happens: > > http://snapshot.debian.org/package/linux-2.6/2.6.37-1/ Hi Lennart ... Thanks for the information. I ended up compiling my own kernel last night using make-kpkg, but I will load the Debian 2.6.37 package when it hits unstable. I didn't know about the snapshot site. Cool. I was just curious about why every release was on the 2.6.32 kernel. Turns out I just happened to pay a visit to Debian when they were in the middle of re-arranging the furniture. :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 19:12:28 2011 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:12:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? In-Reply-To: <20110217172043.GH347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110217172043.GH347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <465210.80825.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 2/17/11, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > From: Lennart Sorensen > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 12:20 PM > On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:58:18AM > -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: > > My father has asked me about installing Linux on his > computer. I'm not > > sure what sparked the request but I'm happy to set it > up to dual boot. > > His computer is running Windows 7. I booted the > machine using a live CD > > of Ubuntu and verified that everything appeared to be > working including > > the printer and the WiFi adapter. > > > > My concern is about whether the OEM version of Windows > 7 that came with > > the machine is going to complain about the change in > partitions and/or > > partition sizes and think it may not be an authentic > install of the MS > > OS. > > > > I am hoping it is ok but I read about issues with > recent versions of > > Windows and how some (a few?) system changes can lead > to requiring the > > purchase of a new copy of Windows as it will no longer > accept its a valid > > copy running on the same system. > > If you use windows itself to shrink the disk, it certainly > won't complain. > Other tools might upset the boot loader (which can then be > fixed using > a bootable windows 7 repair disk). > > http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows7/Create-a-system-repair-disc > > Some installations can't do that for some reason, but there > are plenty > of iso images out there that people have put up that you > can use. > > So after resizing with something other than windows' > storage manager, you > would probably have to use the 'repair boot' option on the > recovery disc. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Or you can install either Oracle's VirtualBox or VMWare server and install Linux as a guest system. By so doing you avoid dual booting all together and can switch between the OSes as you wish. EK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 19:14:26 2011 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:14:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: DIY Cluster... In-Reply-To: <601854.60418.qm-iGg6QNsgFOEA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <601854.60418.qm@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <329887.7257.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 2/17/11, William Park wrote: > From: William Park > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: DIY Cluster... > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: cq585-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org > Received: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 10:24 AM > What kind of "cluster"? > -- > William And when is it? EK > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Colin McGregor > > To: tlug > > Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 9:10:48 AM > > Subject: [TLUG]: DIY Cluster... > > > > Lee Andrew MacNeill is putting together a cluster at > FreeGeek Toronto > > (near? Keele and Dundas St. W.) and is looking > for people who would be > > interested in? cluster building. > > > > The project has technical and non-technical facets, > so? all skillsets > > are welcome. > > > > Anyone interested in helping should drop? Lee at > note at: cq585-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org > > > > > > Colin. > > -- > > The? Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? > ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG? requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to? UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 21:31:07 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 16:31:07 -0500 Subject: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? In-Reply-To: <465210.80825.qm-Q9ppC46l1fv5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20110217172043.GH347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <465210.80825.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 17 February 2011 14:12, E K wrote: > > > --- On Thu, 2/17/11, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> From: Lennart Sorensen >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Received: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 12:20 PM >> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:58:18AM >> -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: >> > My father has asked me about installing Linux on his >> computer. I'm not >> > sure what sparked the request but I'm happy to set it >> up to dual boot. >> > His computer is running Windows 7. I booted the >> machine using a live CD >> > of Ubuntu and verified that everything appeared to be >> working including >> > the printer and the WiFi adapter. >> > >> > My concern is about whether the OEM version of Windows >> 7 that came with >> > the machine is going to complain about the change in >> partitions and/or >> > partition sizes and think it may not be an authentic >> install of the MS >> > OS. >> > >> > I am hoping it is ok but I read about issues with >> recent versions of >> > Windows and how some (a few?) system changes can lead >> to requiring the >> > purchase of a new copy of Windows as it will no longer >> accept its a valid >> > copy running on the same system. >> >> If you use windows itself to shrink the disk, it certainly >> won't complain. >> Other tools might upset the boot loader (which can then be >> fixed using >> a bootable windows 7 repair disk). >> >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows7/Create-a-system-repair-disc >> >> Some installations can't do that for some reason, but there >> are plenty >> of iso images out there that people have put up that you >> can use. >> >> So after resizing with something other than windows' >> storage manager, you >> would probably have to use the 'repair boot' option on the >> recovery disc. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. >> Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 >> columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > Or you can install either Oracle's VirtualBox or VMWare server and install Linux as a guest system. By so doing you avoid dual booting all together and can switch between the OSes as you wish. > > EK I find it better to set it up as dual boot or if it has to be virtualized, I have Windows running on Linux. The main reason I like setting it up this way is because when Window fails as will often happen, the user can still get his files without my assistance I have too resized Window 7 NTFS for Linux installation without a problem. As someone said, you need to do backup first in case something go wrong. William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devonrose-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 22:03:11 2011 From: devonrose-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (DEVON AITKEN) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 17:03:11 -0500 Subject: (unknown) Message-ID: <20110217220311.7905C181C0@ms2.vianet.ca> I bought a laptop a a couple weeks ago. When I bought the computer, I was told there was only one account and that this account was the super-user. But, I tried to delete a printer using "CUPS" (the printer manager) but I am told this is forbidden. Can I make a root account from my account or somehow get more control on my present account? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 22:11:25 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 17:11:25 -0500 Subject: New laptop In-Reply-To: <20110217220311.7905C181C0-QC8nOcZ24QzbQjhCxjW6FA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110217220311.7905C181C0@ms2.vianet.ca> Message-ID: <4D5D9D0D.2030307@alteeve.com> On 02/17/2011 05:03 PM, DEVON AITKEN wrote: > I bought a laptop a a couple weeks ago. When I bought the computer, I > was told there was only one account and that this account was the > super-user. But, I tried to delete a printer using "CUPS" (the printer > manager) but I am told this is forbidden. Can I make a root account from > my account or somehow get more control on my present account? What operating system? -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 22:47:22 2011 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 17:47:22 -0500 Subject: laptop Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 5:03 PM, DEVON AITKEN wrote: > I bought a laptop a a couple weeks ago. When I bought the computer, I was > told there was only one account and that this account was the super-user. > But, I tried to delete a printer using "CUPS" (the printer manager) but I am > told this is forbidden. Can I make a root account from my account or somehow > get more control on my present account? Devon: What's the make and model of the laptop? Do you know what Linux Distro they installed. Suggestion. Boot the system using a LiveCD and mount your drive. Then you should be able to remove root password from the /etc/shadow 2.3 Format of the shadow file The /etc/shadow file contains the following information: username:passwd:last:may:must:warn:expire:disable:reserved Just leave the password area blank and then you will be able to login as root and change the root password. -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 17 23:44:12 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:44:12 -0500 Subject: For the 3D animators, $10 & $40 deal on messiahStudio5 In-Reply-To: <4D5D504D.7020802-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel@acheron.ss.org> <4D5D504D.7020802@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4D5DB2CC.70000@ss.org> On 02/17/2011 11:43 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Seems the makers of messiahStudio5 decide to try an alternate pricing >> model based on reaching a minimum goal of interested parties. This goal >> has been reached. > [snip] >> At the time of this email the Deal has only a little over 11 hours left. >> >> http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shop.html > > Its been almost 24 hours since the above was posted and the web page > is still showing the reduced price. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists I've noticed that too, the "Estimated time till offer end" seems to be running in reverse. When I posted the original message it did say 11 hours, but if it's being extended that's not such a bad thing. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 00:16:50 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 16:16:50 -0800 Subject: DNS weirdness Message-ID: I have a server setup like the following server01 DNS1 (resolves some local DNS addresses, forwards to DNS 2) DNS2 (forward only to 2 other internal NS's I don't control, NS-1 & NS2) dig or nslookup from DNS2 to NS1/NS2 is quick dig from DNS1 to DNS2 for an external name tends to time out. Ditto connections from server01-DNS1-DNS2 A tcpdump (in the slow case) while trying to resolve aol.ca shows seconds between getting cname results, so that it (usually) times out before resolving. No iptables rules on DNS2 blocking incoming udp either (and AFAIK no other fw rules to affect this). The results do make it back, just seconds too slow when the whole thing should be done in millisecs. Any ideas? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 00:19:25 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 16:19:25 -0800 Subject: In-Reply-To: <20110217220311.7905C181C0-QC8nOcZ24QzbQjhCxjW6FA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110217220311.7905C181C0@ms2.vianet.ca> Message-ID: Can you do one of these from commandline? sudo -s sudo su sudo su - If so you can use "passwd" to change/set a root pw. On 2011-02-17 2:03 PM, "DEVON AITKEN" wrote: > I bought a laptop a a couple weeks ago. When I bought the computer, I was > told there was only one account and that this account was the super-user. > But, I tried to delete a printer using "CUPS" (the printer manager) but I > am told this is forbidden. Can I make a root account from my account or > somehow get more control on my present account? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 02:37:18 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 21:37:18 -0500 Subject: For the 3D animators, $10 & $40 deal on messiahStudio5 In-Reply-To: <4D5DB2CC.70000-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel@acheron.ss.org> <4D5D504D.7020802@ve3syb.ca> <4D5DB2CC.70000@ss.org> Message-ID: <4D5DDB5E.3060806@ve3syb.ca> Scott Sullivan wrote: > I've noticed that too, the "Estimated time till offer end" seems to be > running in reverse. > > When I posted the original message it did say 11 hours, but if it's > being extended that's not such a bad thing. I noticed that too when I when I first checked out the site shortly after the initial posting to this mailing list. About two more days to go before we find out if they really will send out the licence keys. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 02:45:14 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 21:45:14 -0500 Subject: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? In-Reply-To: <4D5D53AA.8070008-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5D53AA.8070008@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20110218024514.GA24772@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:58:18AM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Greetings, all. > > My father has asked me about installing Linux on his computer. I'm not sure > what sparked the request but I'm happy to set it up to dual boot. His > computer is running Windows 7. I booted the machine using a live CD of > Ubuntu and verified that everything appeared to be working including the > printer and the WiFi adapter. > > My concern is about whether the OEM version of Windows 7 that came with the > machine is going to complain about the change in partitions and/or > partition sizes and think it may not be an authentic install of the MS OS. > > I am hoping it is ok but I read about issues with recent versions of > Windows and how some (a few?) system changes can lead to requiring the > purchase of a new copy of Windows as it will no longer accept its a valid > copy running on the same system. Don't touch the harddisk. OEM versions often creates partitions other than for Windows. Furthermore, if you do "factory install" in the future for some reason, you'll lose Linux partition. I would - install Linux on USB harddisk, and boot from it. Of course, this depends on BIOS being able to boot from USB disk. - (as already mentioned) install VirtualBox on Windows, and install Linux inside VM. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 03:28:01 2011 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 22:28:01 -0500 Subject: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? In-Reply-To: <4D5D53AA.8070008-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5D53AA.8070008@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Greetings, all. > > My father has asked me about installing Linux on his computer. I'm not sure > what sparked the request but I'm happy to set it up to dual boot. His > computer is running Windows 7. I booted the machine using a live CD of > Ubuntu and verified that everything appeared to be working including the > printer and the WiFi adapter. > > My concern is about whether the OEM version of Windows 7 that came with the > machine is going to complain about the change in partitions and/or partition > sizes and think it may not be an authentic install of the MS OS. > > I am hoping it is ok but I read about issues with recent versions of Windows > and how some (a few?) system changes can lead to requiring the purchase of a > new copy of Windows as it will no longer accept its a valid copy running on > the same system. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > You should be able to resize the partition gparted but often you will need to run chkdsk /f on the drive after the resize to fix any problems with it. You can run chkdsk from the windows rescue boot. -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 03:45:11 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 22:45:11 -0500 Subject: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? In-Reply-To: <20110218024514.GA24772-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5D53AA.8070008@ve3syb.ca> <20110218024514.GA24772@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4D5DEB47.5080208@alteeve.com> On 02/17/2011 09:45 PM, William Park wrote: > Don't touch the harddisk. OEM versions often creates partitions other > than for Windows. Furthermore, if you do "factory install" in the > future for some reason, you'll lose Linux partition. I would If you use the installed tool to make the recovery disks, they will also recreate the oem partition if run. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 04:33:55 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 23:33:55 -0500 Subject: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? In-Reply-To: <20110218024514.GA24772-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5D53AA.8070008@ve3syb.ca> <20110218024514.GA24772@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4D5DF6B3.9020808@gmail.com> On 11-02-17 21:45 , William Park wrote: > > ... I would > - install Linux on USB harddisk, and boot from it. Of course, this > depends on BIOS being able to boot from USB disk. > - (as already mentioned) install VirtualBox on Windows, and install > Linux inside VM. Hey, is WUBI getting no love here? For several years I ran a Linux box out of WUBI, which hosts the fs in the native Windows fs. It's basically dual-boot without the reformatting. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 04:58:56 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 23:58:56 -0500 Subject: Need help with mencoder or ffmpeg for recording audio? Message-ID: <20110218045856.GA23795@waltdnes.org> I've got everything except audio recording working on an Acer Aspire One 4551 notebook running 64-bit Gentoo. Here's what arecord shows... [aa1][waltdnes][~] arecord -l **** List of CAPTURE Hardware Devices **** card 0: SB [HDA ATI SB], device 0: ALC272X Analog [ALC272X Analog] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 I've unmuted everything that shows up in "alsamixer". Applying enough boost to "microphone" generates a hissing sound. I've tried various commands I found via Google, but nothing seems to work, either with the built-in mike or external. This may be simply unfamiliarity on my part. I've got the built-in webcam working, but it does drop a lot of frames during the recording process. Any ideas? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 05:13:06 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 00:13:06 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera Message-ID: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> There was an article on Slashdot a day or so ago about yet more cra^H^H^H "features" that the Mozilla people will be stuffing into Firefox. Arrrrrgh. The final straw came when setting up my notebook. This is a relatively new laptop, with just 64-bit Gentoo linux, X, and a few apps installed. Gentoo generally downloads source tarballs, except for a few binaries. Here's what I get when doing "emerge -pv" (a "pretend" install in verbose mode) with *MINIMAL* dependancies for each of the browsers... Opera Total: 5 packages: 12,154 kB Firefox Total: 19 packages: 114,170 kB Chromium Total: 37 packages: 229,649 kB No, the Opera download number is *NOT* missing a digit . See below for the gory details. [aa1][root][~] emerge -pv opera These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild N ] dev-util/gperf-3.0.4 961 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcursor-1.1.11 USE="-static-libs" 267 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/xcb-util-0.3.6 USE="-debug -test" 287 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.3 USE="-doc -static-libs" 241 kB [ebuild N ] www-client/opera-11.01.1190 USE="-gstreamer -gtk -kde" LINGUAS="-be -bg -cs -da -de -el -en_GB -es_ES -es_LA -et -fi -fr -fr_CA -fy -hi -hr -hu -id -it -ja -ka -ko -lt -mk -nb -nl -nn -pl -pt -pt_BR -ro -ru -sk -sr -sv -ta -te -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN -zh_HK -zh_TW" 10,399 kB Total: 5 packages (5 new), Size of downloads: 12,154 kB [aa1][root][~] emerge -pv firefox These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nspr-4.8.6 USE="-debug" 1,175 kB [ebuild NS ] sys-devel/autoconf-2.13 [2.65-r1] 434 kB [ebuild N ] app-arch/zip-3.0 USE="-bzip2 -crypt -unicode" 1,258 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libIDL-0.8.14 USE="-debug" 418 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libevent-1.4.14b 464 kB [ebuild N ] app-dicts/myspell-en-20081002 6,881 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcursor-1.1.11 USE="-static-libs" 267 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/atk-1.30.0 USE="-doc (-introspection)" 729 kB [ebuild N ] x11-misc/shared-mime-info-0.80 568 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.3 USE="-doc -static-libs" 241 kB [ebuild N ] app-vim/gtk-syntax-20091024 145 kB [ebuild N ] dev-db/sqlite-3.7.2 USE="-debug -doc -extensions -fts3 -icu -readline -secure-delete -soundex -tcl -test -threadsafe -unlock-notify" 1,464 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/cairo-1.10.2-r1 USE="X opengl svg (-aqua) -debug -directfb -doc (-drm) (-gallium) (-openvg) -qt4 -static-libs -xcb" 23,007 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nss-3.12.8 USE="-utils" 5,813 kB [ebuild N ] app-text/hunspell-1.2.11 USE="-ncurses -nls -readline" LINGUAS="-af -bg -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en -eo -es -et -fo -fr -ga -gl -he -hr -hu -id -it -ku -lt -lv -mk -ms -nb -nl -nn -pl -pt -ro -ru -sk -sl -sv -sw -tn -uk -zu" 905 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/pango-1.28.3 USE="X -debug -doc (-introspection) -test" 1,475 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.20.1-r1 USE="jpeg tiff vim-syntax (-aqua) -cups -debug -doc (-introspection) -jpeg2k -test -xinerama" 18,642 kB [ebuild N ] net-libs/xulrunner-1.9.2.13 USE="-alsa -custom-optimization -dbus -debug -gnome -ipc -java -libnotify -startup-notification -system-sqlite -wifi" 50,288 kB [ebuild N ] www-client/firefox-3.6.13 USE="-alsa -bindist -custom-optimization -dbus -gnome -ipc -java -libnotify -startup-notification -system-sqlite -wifi" LINGUAS="-af -ar -as -be -bg -bn -bn_BD -bn_IN -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en -en_GB -en_US -eo -es -es_AR -es_CL -es_ES -es_MX -et -eu -fa -fi -fr -fy -fy_NL -ga -ga_IE -gl -gu -gu_IN -he -hi -hi_IN -hr -hu -id -is -it -ja -ka -kk -kn -ko -ku -lt -lv -mk -ml -mr -nb -nb_NO -nl -nn -nn_NO -oc -or -pa -pa_IN -pl -pt -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru -si -sk -sl -sq -sr -sv -sv_SE -ta -ta_LK -te -th -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN -zh_TW" 6 kB Total: 19 packages (18 new, 1 in new slot), Size of downloads: 114,170 kB [aa1][root][~] emerge -pv www-client/chromium These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild N ] dev-util/gperf-3.0.4 961 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/icu-4.6 USE="-debug -doc -examples -static-libs" 15,180 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nspr-4.8.6 USE="-debug" 1,175 kB [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-NamespaceSupport-1.11 51 kB [ebuild N ] x11-misc/shared-mime-info-0.80 568 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libevent-1.4.14b 464 kB [ebuild N ] dev-util/chromium-tools-0.1.6 USE="-subversion" 3 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXtst-1.2.0 USE="-doc -static-libs" 276 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2.1 USE="-static-libs" 263 kB [ebuild N ] media-libs/libvpx-0.9.5 USE="mmx sse sse2 threads (-altivec) -debug -doc -postproc -sse3 -ssse3" 1,222 kB [ebuild N ] x11-apps/xprop-1.2.0 126 kB [ebuild N ] dev-util/desktop-file-utils-0.17 USE="-emacs" 274 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXxf86misc-1.0.3 USE="-static-libs" 250 kB [ebuild N ] x11-proto/fontcacheproto-0.1.3 83 kB [ebuild N ] sys-apps/dbus-1.4.1 USE="X -debug -doc (-selinux) -static-libs -test" 1,807 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcursor-1.1.11 USE="-static-libs" 267 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/atk-1.30.0 USE="-doc (-introspection)" 729 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.3 USE="-doc -static-libs" 241 kB [ebuild N ] app-vim/gtk-syntax-20091024 145 kB [ebuild N ] dev-db/sqlite-3.7.2 USE="-debug -doc -extensions -fts3 -icu -readline -secure-delete -soundex -tcl -test -threadsafe -unlock-notify" 1,464 kB [ebuild N ] x11-themes/hicolor-icon-theme-0.12 38 kB [ebuild N ] perl-core/Storable-2.20 174 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/cairo-1.10.2-r1 USE="X opengl svg (-aqua) -debug -directfb -doc (-drm) (-gallium) (-openvg) -qt4 -static-libs -xcb" 23,007 kB [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-SAX-0.16 59 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nss-3.12.8 USE="-utils" 5,813 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.88 USE="-bash-completion -debug -doc -static-libs -test" 673 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXfontcache-1.0.5 USE="-debug" 235 kB [ebuild N ] virtual/perl-Storable-2.20 0 kB [ebuild N ] x11-apps/xset-1.2.1 122 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/pango-1.28.3 USE="X -debug -doc (-introspection) -test" 1,475 kB [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-LibXML-1.70 332 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.20.1-r1 USE="jpeg tiff vim-syntax (-aqua) -cups -debug -doc (-introspection) -jpeg2k -test -xinerama" 18,642 kB [ebuild N ] x11-misc/xdg-utils-1.0.2_p20100618 USE="-doc" 298 kB [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-Simple-2.18 70 kB [ebuild N ] x11-misc/icon-naming-utils-0.8.90 69 kB [ebuild N ] x11-themes/gnome-icon-theme-2.30.3 15,610 kB [ebuild N ] www-client/chromium-9.0.597.94 USE="-cups -gecko-mediaplayer -gnome -gnome-keyring -system-sqlite (-system-v8)" 137,501 kB Total: 37 packages (37 new), Size of downloads: 229,649 kB -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 13:54:48 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 08:54:48 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <20110218051306.GB23795-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: One of the nice things about Chrome is that it is starting to include a PDF viewer and a Flash player in it's default install, which could explain it large size. Also nothing pisses off a web developer more than having to support a browser that only 2.5% of a very vocal population uses. On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?There was an article on Slashdot a day or so ago about yet more > cra^H^H^H "features" that the Mozilla people will be stuffing into > Firefox. ?Arrrrrgh. > > ?The final straw came when setting up my notebook. ?This is a > relatively new laptop, with just 64-bit Gentoo linux, X, and a few apps > installed. ?Gentoo generally downloads source tarballs, except for a few > binaries. ?Here's what I get when doing "emerge -pv" (a "pretend" > install in verbose mode) with *MINIMAL* dependancies for each of the > browsers... > > Opera Total: 5 packages: 12,154 kB > Firefox Total: 19 packages: 114,170 kB > Chromium Total: 37 packages: 229,649 kB > > ?No, the Opera download number is *NOT* missing a digit . ?See below > for the gory details. > > [aa1][root][~] emerge -pv opera > These are the packages that would be merged, in order: > > Calculating dependencies... done! > [ebuild N ] dev-util/gperf-3.0.4 961 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcursor-1.1.11 USE="-static-libs" 267 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/xcb-util-0.3.6 USE="-debug -test" 287 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.3 USE="-doc -static-libs" 241 kB > [ebuild N ] www-client/opera-11.01.1190 USE="-gstreamer -gtk -kde" LINGUAS="-be -bg -cs -da -de -el -en_GB -es_ES -es_LA -et -fi -fr -fr_CA -fy -hi -hr -hu -id -it -ja -ka -ko -lt -mk -nb -nl -nn -pl -pt -pt_BR -ro -ru -sk -sr -sv -ta -te -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN -zh_HK -zh_TW" 10,399 kB > > Total: 5 packages (5 new), Size of downloads: 12,154 kB > > [aa1][root][~] emerge -pv firefox > These are the packages that would be merged, in order: > > Calculating dependencies... done! > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nspr-4.8.6 USE="-debug" 1,175 kB > [ebuild NS ] sys-devel/autoconf-2.13 [2.65-r1] 434 kB > [ebuild N ] app-arch/zip-3.0 USE="-bzip2 -crypt -unicode" 1,258 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libIDL-0.8.14 USE="-debug" 418 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libevent-1.4.14b 464 kB > [ebuild N ] app-dicts/myspell-en-20081002 6,881 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcursor-1.1.11 USE="-static-libs" 267 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/atk-1.30.0 USE="-doc (-introspection)" 729 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-misc/shared-mime-info-0.80 568 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.3 USE="-doc -static-libs" 241 kB > [ebuild N ] app-vim/gtk-syntax-20091024 145 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-db/sqlite-3.7.2 USE="-debug -doc -extensions -fts3 -icu -readline -secure-delete -soundex -tcl -test -threadsafe -unlock-notify" 1,464 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/cairo-1.10.2-r1 USE="X opengl svg (-aqua) -debug -directfb -doc (-drm) (-gallium) (-openvg) -qt4 -static-libs -xcb" 23,007 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nss-3.12.8 USE="-utils" 5,813 kB > [ebuild N ] app-text/hunspell-1.2.11 USE="-ncurses -nls -readline" LINGUAS="-af -bg -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en -eo -es -et -fo -fr -ga -gl -he -hr -hu -id -it -ku -lt -lv -mk -ms -nb -nl -nn -pl -pt -ro -ru -sk -sl -sv -sw -tn -uk -zu" 905 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/pango-1.28.3 USE="X -debug -doc (-introspection) -test" 1,475 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.20.1-r1 USE="jpeg tiff vim-syntax (-aqua) -cups -debug -doc (-introspection) -jpeg2k -test -xinerama" 18,642 kB > [ebuild N ] net-libs/xulrunner-1.9.2.13 USE="-alsa -custom-optimization -dbus -debug -gnome -ipc -java -libnotify -startup-notification -system-sqlite -wifi" 50,288 kB > [ebuild N ] www-client/firefox-3.6.13 USE="-alsa -bindist -custom-optimization -dbus -gnome -ipc -java -libnotify -startup-notification -system-sqlite -wifi" LINGUAS="-af -ar -as -be -bg -bn -bn_BD -bn_IN -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en -en_GB -en_US -eo -es -es_AR -es_CL -es_ES -es_MX -et -eu -fa -fi -fr -fy -fy_NL -ga -ga_IE -gl -gu -gu_IN -he -hi -hi_IN -hr -hu -id -is -it -ja -ka -kk -kn -ko -ku -lt -lv -mk -ml -mr -nb -nb_NO -nl -nn -nn_NO -oc -or -pa -pa_IN -pl -pt -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru -si -sk -sl -sq -sr -sv -sv_SE -ta -ta_LK -te -th -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN -zh_TW" 6 kB > > Total: 19 packages (18 new, 1 in new slot), Size of downloads: 114,170 kB > > [aa1][root][~] emerge -pv www-client/chromium > These are the packages that would be merged, in order: > > Calculating dependencies... done! > [ebuild N ] dev-util/gperf-3.0.4 961 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/icu-4.6 USE="-debug -doc -examples -static-libs" 15,180 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nspr-4.8.6 USE="-debug" 1,175 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-NamespaceSupport-1.11 51 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-misc/shared-mime-info-0.80 568 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libevent-1.4.14b 464 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-util/chromium-tools-0.1.6 USE="-subversion" 3 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXtst-1.2.0 USE="-doc -static-libs" 276 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2.1 USE="-static-libs" 263 kB > [ebuild N ] media-libs/libvpx-0.9.5 USE="mmx sse sse2 threads (-altivec) -debug -doc -postproc -sse3 -ssse3" 1,222 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-apps/xprop-1.2.0 126 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-util/desktop-file-utils-0.17 USE="-emacs" 274 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXxf86misc-1.0.3 USE="-static-libs" 250 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-proto/fontcacheproto-0.1.3 83 kB > [ebuild N ] sys-apps/dbus-1.4.1 USE="X -debug -doc (-selinux) -static-libs -test" 1,807 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcursor-1.1.11 USE="-static-libs" 267 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/atk-1.30.0 USE="-doc (-introspection)" 729 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.3 USE="-doc -static-libs" 241 kB > [ebuild N ] app-vim/gtk-syntax-20091024 145 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-db/sqlite-3.7.2 USE="-debug -doc -extensions -fts3 -icu -readline -secure-delete -soundex -tcl -test -threadsafe -unlock-notify" 1,464 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-themes/hicolor-icon-theme-0.12 38 kB > [ebuild N ] perl-core/Storable-2.20 174 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/cairo-1.10.2-r1 USE="X opengl svg (-aqua) -debug -directfb -doc (-drm) (-gallium) (-openvg) -qt4 -static-libs -xcb" 23,007 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-SAX-0.16 59 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nss-3.12.8 USE="-utils" 5,813 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.88 USE="-bash-completion -debug -doc -static-libs -test" 673 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXfontcache-1.0.5 USE="-debug" 235 kB > [ebuild N ] virtual/perl-Storable-2.20 0 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-apps/xset-1.2.1 122 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/pango-1.28.3 USE="X -debug -doc (-introspection) -test" 1,475 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-LibXML-1.70 332 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.20.1-r1 USE="jpeg tiff vim-syntax (-aqua) -cups -debug -doc (-introspection) -jpeg2k -test -xinerama" 18,642 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-misc/xdg-utils-1.0.2_p20100618 USE="-doc" 298 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-Simple-2.18 70 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-misc/icon-naming-utils-0.8.90 69 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-themes/gnome-icon-theme-2.30.3 15,610 kB > [ebuild N ] www-client/chromium-9.0.597.94 USE="-cups -gecko-mediaplayer -gnome -gnome-keyring -system-sqlite (-system-v8)" 137,501 kB > > Total: 37 packages (37 new), Size of downloads: 229,649 kB > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 15:11:13 2011 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 10:11:13 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <20110218051306.GB23795-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110218151113.GA2773@amber> On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 12:13:06AM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > installed. Gentoo generally downloads source tarballs, except for a few > binaries. Here's what I get when doing "emerge -pv" (a "pretend" > install in verbose mode) with *MINIMAL* dependancies for each of the > browsers... > > Opera Total: 5 packages: 12,154 kB > Firefox Total: 19 packages: 114,170 kB > Chromium Total: 37 packages: 229,649 kB > > No, the Opera download number is *NOT* missing a digit . See below > for the gory details. I believe opera comes as binary package for gentoo -- statically linked for the most part and just wrapped up in a ebuild with a few added dependencies that can be expected on a typical system -- so comparing the number of dependencies it has to those of other browsers is somewhat misleading, especially in the case of chromium where a lot of special-purpose libraries etc. have to be installed. But there is no question that opera is faster and more reponsive than firefox in almost all respects: quicker to load initially, faster to load websites, and a cleaner and snappier interface all-round. Though if I recall correctly it had much the same RAM footprint and system-resource usage as firefox. I only ditched opera for another browser in order to get more control from the keyboard. For what it's worth, after trying uzbl, surf, jumanji, etc. I finally opted for firefox + pentadacyl (the successor to vimperator), though I too think firefox is largely bloatware. Nothing else comes close to it. Without pentadactyl, I'd go back to opera; the other lightweight browsers can't cope with the variety of websites I need to access professionally. When I can, I just use links. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 16:48:20 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 11:48:20 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <20110218051306.GB23795-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?There was an article on Slashdot a day or so ago about yet more > cra^H^H^H "features" that the Mozilla people will be stuffing into > Firefox. ?Arrrrrgh. > > ?The final straw came when setting up my notebook. ?This is a > relatively new laptop, with just 64-bit Gentoo linux, X, and a few apps > installed. ?Gentoo generally downloads source tarballs, except for a few > binaries. ?Here's what I get when doing "emerge -pv" (a "pretend" > install in verbose mode) with *MINIMAL* dependancies for each of the > browsers... > > Opera Total: 5 packages: 12,154 kB > Firefox Total: 19 packages: 114,170 kB > Chromium Total: 37 packages: 229,649 kB > > ?No, the Opera download number is *NOT* missing a digit . ?See below > for the gory details. > > [aa1][root][~] emerge -pv opera > These are the packages that would be merged, in order: > > Calculating dependencies... done! > [ebuild N ] dev-util/gperf-3.0.4 961 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcursor-1.1.11 USE="-static-libs" 267 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/xcb-util-0.3.6 USE="-debug -test" 287 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.3 USE="-doc -static-libs" 241 kB > [ebuild N ] www-client/opera-11.01.1190 USE="-gstreamer -gtk -kde" LINGUAS="-be -bg -cs -da -de -el -en_GB -es_ES -es_LA -et -fi -fr -fr_CA -fy -hi -hr -hu -id -it -ja -ka -ko -lt -mk -nb -nl -nn -pl -pt -pt_BR -ro -ru -sk -sr -sv -ta -te -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN -zh_HK -zh_TW" 10,399 kB > > Total: 5 packages (5 new), Size of downloads: 12,154 kB > > [aa1][root][~] emerge -pv firefox > These are the packages that would be merged, in order: > > Calculating dependencies... done! > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nspr-4.8.6 USE="-debug" 1,175 kB > [ebuild NS ] sys-devel/autoconf-2.13 [2.65-r1] 434 kB > [ebuild N ] app-arch/zip-3.0 USE="-bzip2 -crypt -unicode" 1,258 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libIDL-0.8.14 USE="-debug" 418 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libevent-1.4.14b 464 kB > [ebuild N ] app-dicts/myspell-en-20081002 6,881 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcursor-1.1.11 USE="-static-libs" 267 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/atk-1.30.0 USE="-doc (-introspection)" 729 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-misc/shared-mime-info-0.80 568 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.3 USE="-doc -static-libs" 241 kB > [ebuild N ] app-vim/gtk-syntax-20091024 145 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-db/sqlite-3.7.2 USE="-debug -doc -extensions -fts3 -icu -readline -secure-delete -soundex -tcl -test -threadsafe -unlock-notify" 1,464 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/cairo-1.10.2-r1 USE="X opengl svg (-aqua) -debug -directfb -doc (-drm) (-gallium) (-openvg) -qt4 -static-libs -xcb" 23,007 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nss-3.12.8 USE="-utils" 5,813 kB > [ebuild N ] app-text/hunspell-1.2.11 USE="-ncurses -nls -readline" LINGUAS="-af -bg -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en -eo -es -et -fo -fr -ga -gl -he -hr -hu -id -it -ku -lt -lv -mk -ms -nb -nl -nn -pl -pt -ro -ru -sk -sl -sv -sw -tn -uk -zu" 905 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/pango-1.28.3 USE="X -debug -doc (-introspection) -test" 1,475 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.20.1-r1 USE="jpeg tiff vim-syntax (-aqua) -cups -debug -doc (-introspection) -jpeg2k -test -xinerama" 18,642 kB > [ebuild N ] net-libs/xulrunner-1.9.2.13 USE="-alsa -custom-optimization -dbus -debug -gnome -ipc -java -libnotify -startup-notification -system-sqlite -wifi" 50,288 kB > [ebuild N ] www-client/firefox-3.6.13 USE="-alsa -bindist -custom-optimization -dbus -gnome -ipc -java -libnotify -startup-notification -system-sqlite -wifi" LINGUAS="-af -ar -as -be -bg -bn -bn_BD -bn_IN -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en -en_GB -en_US -eo -es -es_AR -es_CL -es_ES -es_MX -et -eu -fa -fi -fr -fy -fy_NL -ga -ga_IE -gl -gu -gu_IN -he -hi -hi_IN -hr -hu -id -is -it -ja -ka -kk -kn -ko -ku -lt -lv -mk -ml -mr -nb -nb_NO -nl -nn -nn_NO -oc -or -pa -pa_IN -pl -pt -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru -si -sk -sl -sq -sr -sv -sv_SE -ta -ta_LK -te -th -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN -zh_TW" 6 kB > > Total: 19 packages (18 new, 1 in new slot), Size of downloads: 114,170 kB > > [aa1][root][~] emerge -pv www-client/chromium > These are the packages that would be merged, in order: > > Calculating dependencies... done! > [ebuild N ] dev-util/gperf-3.0.4 961 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/icu-4.6 USE="-debug -doc -examples -static-libs" 15,180 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nspr-4.8.6 USE="-debug" 1,175 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-NamespaceSupport-1.11 51 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-misc/shared-mime-info-0.80 568 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libevent-1.4.14b 464 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-util/chromium-tools-0.1.6 USE="-subversion" 3 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXtst-1.2.0 USE="-doc -static-libs" 276 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2.1 USE="-static-libs" 263 kB > [ebuild N ] media-libs/libvpx-0.9.5 USE="mmx sse sse2 threads (-altivec) -debug -doc -postproc -sse3 -ssse3" 1,222 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-apps/xprop-1.2.0 126 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-util/desktop-file-utils-0.17 USE="-emacs" 274 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXxf86misc-1.0.3 USE="-static-libs" 250 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-proto/fontcacheproto-0.1.3 83 kB > [ebuild N ] sys-apps/dbus-1.4.1 USE="X -debug -doc (-selinux) -static-libs -test" 1,807 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcursor-1.1.11 USE="-static-libs" 267 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/atk-1.30.0 USE="-doc (-introspection)" 729 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.3 USE="-doc -static-libs" 241 kB > [ebuild N ] app-vim/gtk-syntax-20091024 145 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-db/sqlite-3.7.2 USE="-debug -doc -extensions -fts3 -icu -readline -secure-delete -soundex -tcl -test -threadsafe -unlock-notify" 1,464 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-themes/hicolor-icon-theme-0.12 38 kB > [ebuild N ] perl-core/Storable-2.20 174 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/cairo-1.10.2-r1 USE="X opengl svg (-aqua) -debug -directfb -doc (-drm) (-gallium) (-openvg) -qt4 -static-libs -xcb" 23,007 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-SAX-0.16 59 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nss-3.12.8 USE="-utils" 5,813 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.88 USE="-bash-completion -debug -doc -static-libs -test" 673 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXfontcache-1.0.5 USE="-debug" 235 kB > [ebuild N ] virtual/perl-Storable-2.20 0 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-apps/xset-1.2.1 122 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/pango-1.28.3 USE="X -debug -doc (-introspection) -test" 1,475 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-LibXML-1.70 332 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.20.1-r1 USE="jpeg tiff vim-syntax (-aqua) -cups -debug -doc (-introspection) -jpeg2k -test -xinerama" 18,642 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-misc/xdg-utils-1.0.2_p20100618 USE="-doc" 298 kB > [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-Simple-2.18 70 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-misc/icon-naming-utils-0.8.90 69 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-themes/gnome-icon-theme-2.30.3 15,610 kB > [ebuild N ] www-client/chromium-9.0.597.94 USE="-cups -gecko-mediaplayer -gnome -gnome-keyring -system-sqlite (-system-v8)" 137,501 kB > > Total: 37 packages (37 new), Size of downloads: 229,649 kB > Firefox is bloated. Not news. Chromium includes a lot of extras, if I'm not mistaken, including the Flash player and .. a PDF viewer built in ... I think. In any case, on my ancient P4 it has no problems whatsoever. Anyway, my first concern with applications is not how small they are, but how good the experience is and how useful they are. I've tried Opera, but there was nothing compelling. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 16:53:43 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 11:53:43 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: >> ?There was an article on Slashdot a day or so ago about yet more >> cra^H^H^H "features" that the Mozilla people will be stuffing into >> Firefox. ?Arrrrrgh. >> >> ?The final straw came when setting up my notebook. ?This is a >> relatively new laptop, with just 64-bit Gentoo linux, X, and a few apps >> installed. ?Gentoo generally downloads source tarballs, except for a few >> binaries. ?Here's what I get when doing "emerge -pv" (a "pretend" >> install in verbose mode) with *MINIMAL* dependancies for each of the >> browsers... >> >> Opera Total: 5 packages: 12,154 kB >> Firefox Total: 19 packages: 114,170 kB >> Chromium Total: 37 packages: 229,649 kB >> >> ?No, the Opera download number is *NOT* missing a digit . ?See below >> for the gory details. >> >> [aa1][root][~] emerge -pv opera >> These are the packages that would be merged, in order: >> >> Calculating dependencies... done! >> [ebuild N ] dev-util/gperf-3.0.4 961 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcursor-1.1.11 USE="-static-libs" 267 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/xcb-util-0.3.6 USE="-debug -test" 287 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.3 USE="-doc -static-libs" 241 kB >> [ebuild N ] www-client/opera-11.01.1190 USE="-gstreamer -gtk -kde" LINGUAS="-be -bg -cs -da -de -el -en_GB -es_ES -es_LA -et -fi -fr -fr_CA -fy -hi -hr -hu -id -it -ja -ka -ko -lt -mk -nb -nl -nn -pl -pt -pt_BR -ro -ru -sk -sr -sv -ta -te -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN -zh_HK -zh_TW" 10,399 kB >> >> Total: 5 packages (5 new), Size of downloads: 12,154 kB >> >> [aa1][root][~] emerge -pv firefox >> These are the packages that would be merged, in order: >> >> Calculating dependencies... done! >> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nspr-4.8.6 USE="-debug" 1,175 kB >> [ebuild NS ] sys-devel/autoconf-2.13 [2.65-r1] 434 kB >> [ebuild N ] app-arch/zip-3.0 USE="-bzip2 -crypt -unicode" 1,258 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libIDL-0.8.14 USE="-debug" 418 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libevent-1.4.14b 464 kB >> [ebuild N ] app-dicts/myspell-en-20081002 6,881 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcursor-1.1.11 USE="-static-libs" 267 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/atk-1.30.0 USE="-doc (-introspection)" 729 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-misc/shared-mime-info-0.80 568 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.3 USE="-doc -static-libs" 241 kB >> [ebuild N ] app-vim/gtk-syntax-20091024 145 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-db/sqlite-3.7.2 USE="-debug -doc -extensions -fts3 -icu -readline -secure-delete -soundex -tcl -test -threadsafe -unlock-notify" 1,464 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/cairo-1.10.2-r1 USE="X opengl svg (-aqua) -debug -directfb -doc (-drm) (-gallium) (-openvg) -qt4 -static-libs -xcb" 23,007 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nss-3.12.8 USE="-utils" 5,813 kB >> [ebuild N ] app-text/hunspell-1.2.11 USE="-ncurses -nls -readline" LINGUAS="-af -bg -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en -eo -es -et -fo -fr -ga -gl -he -hr -hu -id -it -ku -lt -lv -mk -ms -nb -nl -nn -pl -pt -ro -ru -sk -sl -sv -sw -tn -uk -zu" 905 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/pango-1.28.3 USE="X -debug -doc (-introspection) -test" 1,475 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.20.1-r1 USE="jpeg tiff vim-syntax (-aqua) -cups -debug -doc (-introspection) -jpeg2k -test -xinerama" 18,642 kB >> [ebuild N ] net-libs/xulrunner-1.9.2.13 USE="-alsa -custom-optimization -dbus -debug -gnome -ipc -java -libnotify -startup-notification -system-sqlite -wifi" 50,288 kB >> [ebuild N ] www-client/firefox-3.6.13 USE="-alsa -bindist -custom-optimization -dbus -gnome -ipc -java -libnotify -startup-notification -system-sqlite -wifi" LINGUAS="-af -ar -as -be -bg -bn -bn_BD -bn_IN -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en -en_GB -en_US -eo -es -es_AR -es_CL -es_ES -es_MX -et -eu -fa -fi -fr -fy -fy_NL -ga -ga_IE -gl -gu -gu_IN -he -hi -hi_IN -hr -hu -id -is -it -ja -ka -kk -kn -ko -ku -lt -lv -mk -ml -mr -nb -nb_NO -nl -nn -nn_NO -oc -or -pa -pa_IN -pl -pt -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru -si -sk -sl -sq -sr -sv -sv_SE -ta -ta_LK -te -th -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN -zh_TW" 6 kB >> >> Total: 19 packages (18 new, 1 in new slot), Size of downloads: 114,170 kB >> >> [aa1][root][~] emerge -pv www-client/chromium >> These are the packages that would be merged, in order: >> >> Calculating dependencies... done! >> [ebuild N ] dev-util/gperf-3.0.4 961 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/icu-4.6 USE="-debug -doc -examples -static-libs" 15,180 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nspr-4.8.6 USE="-debug" 1,175 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-NamespaceSupport-1.11 51 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-misc/shared-mime-info-0.80 568 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libevent-1.4.14b 464 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-util/chromium-tools-0.1.6 USE="-subversion" 3 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXtst-1.2.0 USE="-doc -static-libs" 276 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2.1 USE="-static-libs" 263 kB >> [ebuild N ] media-libs/libvpx-0.9.5 USE="mmx sse sse2 threads (-altivec) -debug -doc -postproc -sse3 -ssse3" 1,222 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-apps/xprop-1.2.0 126 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-util/desktop-file-utils-0.17 USE="-emacs" 274 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXxf86misc-1.0.3 USE="-static-libs" 250 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-proto/fontcacheproto-0.1.3 83 kB >> [ebuild N ] sys-apps/dbus-1.4.1 USE="X -debug -doc (-selinux) -static-libs -test" 1,807 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcursor-1.1.11 USE="-static-libs" 267 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/atk-1.30.0 USE="-doc (-introspection)" 729 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXcomposite-0.4.3 USE="-doc -static-libs" 241 kB >> [ebuild N ] app-vim/gtk-syntax-20091024 145 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-db/sqlite-3.7.2 USE="-debug -doc -extensions -fts3 -icu -readline -secure-delete -soundex -tcl -test -threadsafe -unlock-notify" 1,464 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-themes/hicolor-icon-theme-0.12 38 kB >> [ebuild N ] perl-core/Storable-2.20 174 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/cairo-1.10.2-r1 USE="X opengl svg (-aqua) -debug -directfb -doc (-drm) (-gallium) (-openvg) -qt4 -static-libs -xcb" 23,007 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-SAX-0.16 59 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/nss-3.12.8 USE="-utils" 5,813 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.88 USE="-bash-completion -debug -doc -static-libs -test" 673 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXfontcache-1.0.5 USE="-debug" 235 kB >> [ebuild N ] virtual/perl-Storable-2.20 0 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-apps/xset-1.2.1 122 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/pango-1.28.3 USE="X -debug -doc (-introspection) -test" 1,475 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-LibXML-1.70 332 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.20.1-r1 USE="jpeg tiff vim-syntax (-aqua) -cups -debug -doc (-introspection) -jpeg2k -test -xinerama" 18,642 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-misc/xdg-utils-1.0.2_p20100618 USE="-doc" 298 kB >> [ebuild N ] dev-perl/XML-Simple-2.18 70 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-misc/icon-naming-utils-0.8.90 69 kB >> [ebuild N ] x11-themes/gnome-icon-theme-2.30.3 15,610 kB >> [ebuild N ] www-client/chromium-9.0.597.94 USE="-cups -gecko-mediaplayer -gnome -gnome-keyring -system-sqlite (-system-v8)" 137,501 kB >> >> Total: 37 packages (37 new), Size of downloads: 229,649 kB >> > > Firefox is bloated. Not news. > > Chromium includes a lot of extras, if I'm not mistaken, including the > Flash player and .. a PDF viewer built in ... I think. In any case, on > my ancient P4 it has no problems whatsoever. Oh, and support for the new WebGL, very cool idea :-) > Anyway, my first concern with applications is not how small they are, > but how good the experience is and how useful they are. I've tried > Opera, but there was nothing compelling. > > > -- > TBM > -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 17:11:29 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 12:11:29 -0500 Subject: For the 3D animators, $10 & $40 deal on messiahStudio5 In-Reply-To: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <46498.192.139.81.98.1297875161.squirrel@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: <4D5EA841.2080100@ve3syb.ca> scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Seems the makers of messiahStudio5 decide to try an alternate pricing > model based on reaching a minimum goal of interested parties. This goal > has been reached. The web page now indicates the offer has ended. The links at the bottom still take you to PayPal with the $10 and $40 amounts to pay. Its not clear whether the price would still be honoured or not. They should have disabled the "Buy" links on the page if the offer is no longer available. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 18:47:06 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:47:06 -0500 Subject: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? In-Reply-To: <20110218024514.GA24772-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5D53AA.8070008@ve3syb.ca> <20110218024514.GA24772@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110218184706.GA9493@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:45:14PM -0500, William Park wrote: > Don't touch the harddisk. OEM versions often creates partitions other > than for Windows. Furthermore, if you do "factory install" in the > future for some reason, you'll lose Linux partition. I would > - install Linux on USB harddisk, and boot from it. Of course, this > depends on BIOS being able to boot from USB disk. > - (as already mentioned) install VirtualBox on Windows, and install > Linux inside VM. OP didn't mention if it's desktop or laptop. Assuming it's desktop, you can install harddisk enclosure, and insert Linux harddisk when you want to boot Linux. I have and I like very much because it doesn't need additional "tray". You can insert/remove harddisk like floppy. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 18 19:19:42 2011 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 14:19:42 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <20110218051306.GB23795-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 00:13, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?There was an article on Slashdot a day or so ago about yet more > cra^H^H^H "features" that the Mozilla people will be stuffing into > Firefox. ?Arrrrrgh. > > ?The final straw came when setting up my notebook. ?This is a > relatively new laptop, with just 64-bit Gentoo linux, X, and a few apps > installed. ?Gentoo generally downloads source tarballs, except for a few > binaries. ?Here's what I get when doing "emerge -pv" (a "pretend" > install in verbose mode) with *MINIMAL* dependancies for each of the > browsers... > > Opera Total: 5 packages: 12,154 kB > Firefox Total: 19 packages: 114,170 kB > Chromium Total: 37 packages: 229,649 kB > > ?No, the Opera download number is *NOT* missing a digit . ?See below > for the gory details. AFAIK Opera is NOT open source software - but rather "freeware" - , so you're comparing a pre-compiled binary with packages you will download the source and compile. If your point is to download the smallest amount of data, I see no point in using Gentoo, which targets in downloading full sources and optimizing them for better performance. BTW I suggest giving Funtoo (Daniel Robbins current fork of Gentoo) a try. I liked it when I tried. But now I'm a traitor and I use Steve Jobs full of fancy stuff software, so I can't tell if it's still worth it. -- Renata Rocha http://renata.org http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 19 03:04:45 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 22:04:45 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110219030445.GA25387@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 11:48:20AM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote > Chromium includes a lot of extras, if I'm not mistaken, including the > Flash player and .. a PDF viewer built in ... I think. In any case, on > my ancient P4 it has no problems whatsoever. For once I agree with Steve Jobs, and I'd like to see Schlockwave Trash die a quick death. I've used xpdf for quite a while, even before the bad guys started exploiting Adobe's reader regularly. I got sick and tired of a big menu bar taking up space telling me that "There's more to Acrobat than blahblahblah". And xpdf is faster and safer than Adobe. Remember how Sun was going to make the OS irrelavant on the web, by making everything a Java app? Write once, and run anywhere... anywhere you have Java 1.2.3.4.5 loaded... not Java 1.2.3.4.4 or 1.2.3.4.6 but just 1.2.3.4.5. Oh, and lots of exploits too. And then AOL was going to make the OS irrelevant on the web, by making everything a browser app? That excercise in futility basically destroyed Netscape, and handed to web over to IE for years. Here we go again... http://www.conceivablytech.com/5673/products/firefox-4-in-march-a-first-look-at-firefox-5/ and http://areweprettyyet.com/5/desktopApps/ -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 19 06:22:33 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 01:22:33 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <20110218051306.GB23795-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110219012233.21e4b3df.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 00:13:06 -0500 "Walter Dnes" wrote: > There was an article on Slashdot a day or so ago about yet more > cra^H^H^H "features" that the Mozilla people will be stuffing into > Firefox. Arrrrrgh. > > The final straw came when setting up my notebook. This is a > relatively new laptop, with just 64-bit Gentoo linux, X, and a few apps > installed. Gentoo generally downloads source tarballs, except for a few > binaries. Here's what I get when doing "emerge -pv" (a "pretend" > install in verbose mode) with *MINIMAL* dependancies for each of the > browsers... Walter, I have used Opera extensively until recently. It is fast, and it has a nice user interface. Recently, Opera has been crashing my Fedora desktop. I am back to Firefox. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 19 14:01:54 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:01:54 -0500 Subject: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? In-Reply-To: References: <4D5D53AA.8070008@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: On 17 February 2011 22:28, Mark Lane wrote: > On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote: >> Greetings, all. >> >> My father has asked me about installing Linux on his computer. I'm not sure >> what sparked the request but I'm happy to set it up to dual boot. His >> computer is running Windows 7. I booted the machine using a live CD of >> Ubuntu and verified that everything appeared to be working including the >> printer and the WiFi adapter. >> >> My concern is about whether the OEM version of Windows 7 that came with the >> machine is going to complain about the change in partitions and/or partition >> sizes and think it may not be an authentic install of the MS OS. >> >> I am hoping it is ok but I read about issues with recent versions of Windows >> and how some (a few?) system changes can lead to requiring the purchase of a >> new copy of Windows as it will no longer accept its a valid copy running on >> the same system. > > You should be able to resize the partition gparted but often you will > need to run chkdsk /f on the drive after the resize to fix any > problems with it. You can run chkdsk from the windows rescue boot. Yesterday I repartitioned a Windows disk precisely as the original poster would be doing. I bought an Acer Aspire One netbook from the Source (good deal right now, check it out). As expected, Windows 7 Starter said "yeah, sure, I can reduce the size of my own partition. Here, I'm using 20GB, so obviously the max my partition can be reduced to is 120GB." Greedy bugger. So I booted Knoppix from an external DVD drive and used gparted to reduce it to 50GB. Windows got a bit of a surprise when it woke up after that, but it ran chkdsk itself (no need to do it by hand) and it's fine. Both OSes are now happy (and I'm using GRUB on the MBR). -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 19 16:01:40 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 11:01:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re-offer satellite hardware to give away In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor | To recap, last December 13th I offered 4 Echostar DP301 satellite | receivers and a JVC 7400 satellite receiver for free on this list. The | JVC and three of the Echostars went quickly, easily and painlessly. I took one of the Echostars (I think) off of Colin at a TLUG meeting. I figured that I'd save him carrying it home. I'm done with it. It didn't look to be worth my time to try hacking it. I, like Colin, am not interested in unauthorized signals so my hacking was going to be for any possible repurposing. If anyone wants it, they can have it. Otherwise it is being pitched. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 19 16:06:00 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 11:06:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: House of Commons requires Microsoft Message-ID: MPs are not allowed to expense iPads. The reason: they aren't from Microsoft. Wow. Note: iPads can fit into an MS ecosystem: just run iTunes software under Windows. They don't fit into a Linux ecosystem nearly as well. What hope does Linux have in such a bizarre environment. PS: I would reluctantly understand "we don't support". I don't understand "you cannot expense". Surely MPs ought to be treated as adults. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 19 17:49:20 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 12:49:20 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <20110219030445.GA25387-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> <20110219030445.GA25387@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 11:48:20AM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote > >> Chromium includes a lot of extras, if I'm not mistaken, including the >> Flash player and .. a PDF viewer built in ... I think. In any case, on >> my ancient P4 it has no problems whatsoever. > > ?For once I agree with Steve Jobs, and I'd like to see Schlockwave > Trash die a quick death. ?I've used xpdf for quite a while, even before > the bad guys started exploiting Adobe's reader regularly. ?I got sick > and tired of a big menu bar taking up space telling me that "There's > more to Acrobat than blahblahblah". ?And xpdf is faster and safer than > Adobe. Well, you'll get no argument from me there :-) I didn't mean to imply I was a huge fan of Adobe in any way, just that Chrome's size wasn't comparable. Keep in mind, re Steve Jobs, he doesn't give a crap about promoting open standards like HTML5. He just doesn't want to have anyone else with their hands in his cookie jar. Also, Flash on Linux is not the same experience as Flash on Windows or on Mac. Flash on Linux, for whatever reason, is crap. It is slow, it crashes constantly, leaks memory, etc. I don't know why this is, but it certainly colours the perception of Flash for Linux users. I've been terribly lucky, on my system (Debian, perhaps that explains it) Flash is eminently tolerable. I would love to see things like WebGL and HTML5 take off, obviously. It will take a lot more than Steve Jobs and the iPad/iPhone ecology to kill Flash, tho. I mean, seriously, Youtube is like the number three site on the web, and it's totally married to Flash forever, no? Reminds me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg > ?Remember how Sun was going to make the OS irrelavant on the web, by > making everything a Java app? ?Write once, and run anywhere... anywhere > you have Java 1.2.3.4.5 loaded... not Java 1.2.3.4.4 or 1.2.3.4.6 but > just 1.2.3.4.5. ?Oh, and lots of exploits too. > > ?And then AOL was going to make the OS irrelevant on the web, by making > everything a browser app? ?That excercise in futility basically > destroyed Netscape, and handed to web over to IE for years. > > ?Here we go again... > http://www.conceivablytech.com/5673/products/firefox-4-in-march-a-first-look-at-firefox-5/ > and http://areweprettyyet.com/5/desktopApps/ > -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 19 17:51:02 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 12:51:02 -0500 Subject: House of Commons requires Microsoft In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Even worse you can't load your tim card on a Mac ;) Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 11:06 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > > MPs are not allowed to expense iPads. ?The reason: they aren't > from Microsoft. ?Wow. > > Note: iPads can fit into an MS ecosystem: just run iTunes software under > Windows. ?They don't fit into a Linux ecosystem nearly as well. > > What hope does Linux have in such a bizarre environment. > > PS: I would reluctantly understand "we don't support". ?I don't understand > "you cannot expense". ?Surely MPs ought to be treated as adults. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 19 19:15:18 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:15:18 -0500 Subject: Can Windows 7 tolerate changes in partition sizes? In-Reply-To: References: <4D5D53AA.8070008@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4D6016C6.2030803@ve3syb.ca> Giles Orr wrote: > Yesterday I repartitioned a Windows disk precisely as the original > poster would be doing. [snip] > So I booted Knoppix from an external > DVD drive and used gparted to reduce it to 50GB. Windows got a bit of > a surprise when it woke up after that, but it ran chkdsk itself (no > need to do it by hand) and it's fine. Thank you to Giles and everyone else who responded to my query. The only time I touch Windows 7 is the rare time my father needs help with something on his computer. The stuff I hear about recent versions of Windows and what they do to verify they are running genuine copies of the MS OS made me want to be sure I wasn't going to run in to any nasty surprises. I will make sure the computer is fully backed up on to the external hard drive he has and check if the backup DVD's were made. IIRC, the machine came with a separate partition containing system setup and recovery software (similar to the setup of my own computer). I also make a note of the original partition sizes and make a backup copy of sector 0 of the HD as an extra precaution in case things go screwy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 19 20:21:21 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 15:21:21 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110219202120.GA4071@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 02:19:42PM -0500, Renata Rocha wrote > AFAIK Opera is NOT open source software - but rather "freeware" - , so > you're comparing a pre-compiled binary with packages you will download > the source and compile. If your point is to download the smallest > amount of data, I see no point in using Gentoo, which targets in > downloading full sources and optimizing them for better performance. OK, let's do an apples-to-apples comparison... Opera versus Firefox-bin. I had to do this in a 32-bit Gentoo guest inside KVM, because there is no pure 64-bit Firefox-bin available. Firefox wants dbus and gtk and cairo and pango and sqlite (either built-in or standalone), which Opera doesn't need. Here's the output from "emerge -pv firefox-bin" These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies ... done! [ebuild N ] media-sound/alsa-headers-1.0.23 3,260 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/cairo-1.8.10 USE="X cleartype opengl svg (-aqua) -debug -directfb -doc -glitz -lcdfilter -xcb" 6,944 kB [ebuild N ] app-text/build-docbook-catalog-1.4 3 kB [ebuild N ] media-libs/alsa-lib-1.0.23 USE="-alisp -debug -doc -python" ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS="-adpcm -alaw -asym -copy -dmix -dshare -dsnoop -empty -extplug -file -hooks -iec958 -ioplug -ladspa -lfloat -linear -meter -mmap_emul -mulaw -multi -null -plug -rate -route -share -shm -softvol" 790 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/atk-1.30.0 USE="-doc (-introspection)" 729 kB [ebuild N ] x11-misc/shared-mime-info-0.80 568 kB [ebuild N ] app-vim/gtk-syntax-20091024 145 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libxslt-1.1.26 USE="-crypt -debug -python" 3,322 kB [ebuild N ] app-text/sgml-common-0.6.3-r5 75 kB [ebuild N ] sys-apps/dbus-1.4.1 USE="X -debug -doc (-selinux) -static-libs -test" 1,807 kB [ebuild N ] app-text/docbook-xsl-stylesheets-1.75.2 1,507 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.88 USE="-bash-completion -debug -doc -static-libs -test" 673 kB [ebuild N ] app-text/docbook-xml-dtd-4.3-r1 82 kB [ebuild N ] dev-util/gtk-doc-am-1.15 770 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/pango-1.28.3 USE="X -debug -doc (-introspection) -test" 1,475 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/gtk+-2.20.1-r1 USE="jpeg tiff vim-syntax (-aqua) -cups -debug -doc (-introspection) -jpeg2k -test -xinerama" 18,642 kB [ebuild N ] www-client/firefox-bin-3.6.13 USE="-startup-notification" LINGUAS="-af -ar -as -be -bg -bn -bn_BD -bn_IN -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en -en_GB -en_US -eo -es -es_AR -es_CL -es_ES -es_MX -et -eu -fa -fi -fr -fy -fy_NL -ga -ga_IE -gl -gu -gu_IN -he -hi -hi_IN -hr -hu -id -is -it -ja -ka -kk -kn -ko -ku -lt -lv -mk -ml -mr -nb -nb_NO -nl -nn -nn_NO -oc -or -pa -pa_IN -pl -pt -pt_BR -pt_PT -rm -ro -ru -si -sk -sl -sq -sr -sv -sv_SE -ta -ta_LK -te -th -tr -uk -vi -zh -zh_CN -zh_TW" 10,481 kB Total: 17 packages (17 new), Size of downloads: 51,266 kB Here's the output from "emerge -pv opera" These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies ... done! [ebuild N ] dev-util/gperf-3.0.4 961 kB [ebuild N ] x11-proto/xcb-proto-1.6-r1 91 kB [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libxslt-1.1.26 USE="-crypt -debug -python" 3,322 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libxcb-1.7 USE="-doc (-selinux) -static-libs" 312 kB [ebuild N ] x11-libs/xcb-util-0.3.6 USE="-debug -test" 287 kB [ebuild N ] www-client/opera-11.01.1190 USE="-gstreamer -gtk -kde" LINGUAS="-be -bg -cs -da -de -el -en_GB -es_ES -es_LA -et -fi -fr -fr_CA -fy -hi -hr -hu -id -it -ja -ka -ko -lt -mk -nb -nl -nn -pl -pt -pt_BR -ro -ru -sk -sr -sv -ta -te -tr -uk -vi -zh_CN -zh_HK -zh_TW" 9,680 kB Total: 6 packages (6 new), Size of downloads: 14,651 kB -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 19 20:32:26 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 15:32:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <20110218051306.GB23795-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Feb 2011, Walter Dnes wrote: > There was an article on Slashdot a day or so ago about yet more > cra^H^H^H "features" that the Mozilla people will be stuffing into > Firefox. Arrrrrgh. I find that Opera takes up more resources than Firefox. I don't use it frequently, but I often have it minimized, and it can really slow the system down, even then, after it has been running for a few days. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 20 02:17:38 2011 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 21:17:38 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <20110219202120.GA4071-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> <20110219202120.GA4071@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4D6079C2.7050202@dinamis.com> On 02/19/2011 03:21 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Here's the output from "emerge -pv firefox-bin" > Total: 17 packages (17 new), Size of downloads: 51,266 kB [snip] > Here's the output from "emerge -pv opera" [snip] > Total: 6 packages (6 new), Size of downloads: 14,651 kB Disk space being so expensive, I see your point. :) FYI, I've never found Opera to have any appreciable advantage over Firefox in terms of speed or resource utilization. They both get piggy if you have many tabs open, especially if Flash is involved. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 20 13:31:46 2011 From: andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 08:31:46 -0500 Subject: No pre-compiled kernel images in Debian more recent than 2.6.32? In-Reply-To: References: <20110217160506.GG347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: > > I ended up compiling my own kernel last night using make-kpkg, but I > will load the Debian 2.6.37 package when it hits unstable. I didn't > know about the snapshot site. Cool. > I didn't know about the snapshot site either. Double cool. Perfect for rolling back from a buggy version of an installed package to an prior version. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 20 17:51:10 2011 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 12:51:10 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <4D6079C2.7050202-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> <20110219202120.GA4071@waltdnes.org> <4D6079C2.7050202@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 21:17, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 02/19/2011 03:21 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: >> >> Here's the output from "emerge -pv firefox-bin" >> Total: 17 packages (17 new), Size of downloads: 51,266 kB > > [snip] >> >> Here's the output from "emerge -pv opera" > > [snip] >> >> Total: 6 packages (6 new), Size of downloads: 14,651 kB > > Disk space being so expensive, I see your point. :) Here's the solution for the expensiveness of disk space and our limited bandwidth http://www.tinycorelinux.com/ -- Renata Rocha http://renata.org http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 20 17:57:17 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 12:57:17 -0500 Subject: [OT] VPN service for accessing blocked video streams Message-ID: I've been reading some stuff about people using a VPN service like PureVPN so that they get a US or UK IP address, and then can access sites like Hulu or even BBC streams that are usually blocked in Canada. Has anyone tried this? -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 20 20:02:37 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 15:02:37 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 2:24 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Its a great deal for Microsoft though, but I highly doubt it will turn > well for Nokia. Quite entertaining is "The Elopocalypse: Nokia Chooses Microsoft" http://bethesignal.org/blog/2011/02/11/elopocalypse-nokia-chooses-microsoft/ It's worth browsing the list of "former Microsoft Strategic Partners" for Windows Mobile: It's interesting how often such partners wind up bankrupt... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 21 04:13:32 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 23:13:32 -0500 Subject: [OT] VPN service for accessing blocked video streams In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: just get a rackspace cloud instance for 1.5 cent per hour, and you get root, run iptables (to SNAT ip ) and do whatever you want for next to no price, and have a whole server instance to boot. if you use it all the time, then there are 5$/mon VPS that you can also SNAT on. I have heard of free services, but i think they tend to be pretty fly by night. tl On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I've been reading some stuff about people using a VPN service like > PureVPN so that they get a US or UK IP address, and then can access > sites like Hulu or even BBC streams that are usually blocked in > Canada. > > Has anyone tried this? > > -- > TBM > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 21 04:27:39 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 23:27:39 -0500 Subject: Nokia to use Window mobile 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Christopher, On 20 February 2011 15:02, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 2:24 PM, William Muriithi > wrote: >> Its a great deal for Microsoft though, but I highly doubt it will turn >> well for Nokia. > > Quite entertaining is > ?"The Elopocalypse: Nokia Chooses Microsoft" > ?http://bethesignal.org/blog/2011/02/11/elopocalypse-nokia-chooses-microsoft/ Correct, its a great read. Actually, it one of the best analysis among the number of articles that I have read about this deal. The most interesting is that even those articles that thought the deal was good for Nokia found it hard to come up with a good reason. Economist.com actually reported that Nokia stocks went up! I think the only reason they went with Window 7 may be the advertisement deal. Apparently, they will be getting a large part of the advertisement revenue generated from the smart phones, while google refused to cooperate on that regard. If things do not work well, I can see another Carly Fiorino here. He really took a big risk as I believe more than 70% of the employees are not mentally for the deal. That could be a major problem. > > It's worth browsing the list of "former Microsoft Strategic Partners" > for Windows Mobile: > > ?It's interesting how often such partners wind up bankrupt... On Microsoft defense here, I do not think they are going to follow their past trend. Remember they are also in trouble, unlike the past when they were the kings. They are very likely to be supportive on Nokia as that would give Window 7 a chance. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 21 17:42:09 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 12:42:09 -0500 Subject: Burning 2 DVD simultaneously... slow Message-ID: <20110221174208.GA4651@node1.opengeometry.net> I usually burn 1 DVD at a time, so I didn't noticed this before. When burning 2 DVD-RW simultaneously (one SATA burner and one USB burner), the speed crawls and fluctuates. I would've thought modern computer is more than capable of handling 2 DVDs at the same time. Anyone experienced this? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 21 17:53:23 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 09:53:23 -0800 Subject: Burning 2 DVD simultaneously... slow In-Reply-To: <20110221174208.GA4651-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110221174208.GA4651@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: What speeds and CPU usage? Maybe you're thrashing your HDD's? On 2011-02-21 9:42 AM, "William Park" wrote: > I usually burn 1 DVD at a time, so I didn't noticed this before. When > burning 2 DVD-RW simultaneously (one SATA burner and one USB burner), > the speed crawls and fluctuates. I would've thought modern computer is > more than capable of handling 2 DVDs at the same time. Anyone > experienced this? > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 21 18:04:36 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 13:04:36 -0500 Subject: Burning 2 DVD simultaneously... slow In-Reply-To: <20110221174208.GA4651-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110221174208.GA4651@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:42 PM, William Park wrote: > I usually burn 1 DVD at a time, so I didn't noticed this before. ?When > burning 2 DVD-RW simultaneously (one SATA burner and one USB burner), > the speed crawls and fluctuates. ?I would've thought modern computer is > more than capable of handling 2 DVDs at the same time. ?Anyone > experienced this? I haven't tried; i imagine you're overpowering the bandwidth of something, whether: a) SATA b) USB c) How fast can you read from the source? d) Possible Linux-ism... Likely the output is passing through a single SCSI interface within the kernel, which *should* be fine, but perhaps not? -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 21 20:20:50 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:20:50 -0500 Subject: Burning 2 DVD simultaneously... slow In-Reply-To: <20110221174208.GA4651-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110221174208.GA4651@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: I have set up a box to do 4 at a time, and experienced similar. the issue was, that in the burning, the process is assembling the iso (on the HD or in memory as it goes) and this takes CPU, at the time i just had single core. if you have the ISO's all on hd, then to do 2 dvd burns you are just reading from the HD (2 iso's concurrently) and writing to your two dvd burners, but if you don't burn from pre-assembled iso files, you are asking the burn process (both of them) so read the files from HD and assemble them on fly, then out to the DVD. If you have lots of small files as well you are looking at a lot of head movement on the HD, and also DVD burners can be quite fast, not as fast as a HD , but still pretty quick. To rule out iso assembly issues, you should attempt the dual burn from just ISO files, and if your HD is say 2x faster then the combined throughtput burn of your dvd burners, then you would expect the dual burn to take about as fast as a single. tl On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:42 PM, William Park wrote: > I usually burn 1 DVD at a time, so I didn't noticed this before. ?When > burning 2 DVD-RW simultaneously (one SATA burner and one USB burner), > the speed crawls and fluctuates. ?I would've thought modern computer is > more than capable of handling 2 DVDs at the same time. ?Anyone > experienced this? > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devonrose-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 21 20:34:52 2011 From: devonrose-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (DEVON AITKEN) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:34:52 -0500 Subject: New laptop In-Reply-To: <4D5D9D0D.2030307-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110217220311.7905C181C0@ms2.vianet.ca> <4D5D9D0D.2030307@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20110221203452.AD5EE181B8@ms2.vianet.ca> [TLUG]: Re: New laptop writes: > On 02/17/2011 05:03 PM, DEVON AITKEN wrote: >> I bought a laptop a a couple weeks ago. When I bought the computer, I >> was told there was only one account and that this account was the >> super-user. But, I tried to delete a printer using "CUPS" (the printer >> manager) but I am told this is forbidden. Can I make a root account from >> my account or somehow get more control on my present account? > > What operating system? Ubuntu 10.10 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 21 21:41:16 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 16:41:16 -0500 Subject: Linuxfest 2011 Message-ID: Just got word that there will be a Linuxfest 2011 that will be headed up by Ushnish Sengupta and the folks at FreeGeek Toronto. More details to follow. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 21 22:24:02 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 14:24:02 -0800 Subject: New laptop In-Reply-To: <20110221203452.AD5EE181B8-QC8nOcZ24QzbQjhCxjW6FA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110217220311.7905C181C0@ms2.vianet.ca> <4D5D9D0D.2030307@alteeve.com> <20110221203452.AD5EE181B8@ms2.vianet.ca> Message-ID: Ubuntu doesn't have a root PW by default. AFAIK, you should be able to manage printers with the default user and password, but if not try using the sudo cmd I mentioned in a previous email to set the root password. On 2011-02-21 12:35 PM, "DEVON AITKEN" wrote: > [TLUG]: Re: New laptop writes: > >> On 02/17/2011 05:03 PM, DEVON AITKEN wrote: >>> I bought a laptop a a couple weeks ago. When I bought the computer, I >>> was told there was only one account and that this account was the >>> super-user. But, I tried to delete a printer using "CUPS" (the printer >>> manager) but I am told this is forbidden. Can I make a root account from >>> my account or somehow get more control on my present account? >> >> What operating system? > > Ubuntu 10.10 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 21 22:43:42 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 17:43:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Burning 2 DVD simultaneously... slow In-Reply-To: References: <20110221174208.GA4651@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: | From: ted leslie [I think that I'm agreeing with you but I'm not sure.] | I have set up a box to do 4 at a time, and experienced similar. | the issue was, that in the burning, the process is assembling the iso | (on the HD or in memory as it goes) and this takes CPU, at the time | i just had single core. I don't imagine that assembling the iso actually takes much CPU. As you point out later, it can cause a lot of seeking on the hard drive. Do note that Lennart says the USB takes a fair bit of CPU. I don't know whether "a fair bit" is actually significant in this particular workload. | If you have lots of small files as well | you are looking at a lot of head movement on the HD, | and also DVD burners can be quite fast, not as fast as a | HD , but still pretty quick. Sequential access to a DVD burner might be faster than random access to the hard drive. I've not tested or measured this so it is suspect. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 21 23:00:45 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 18:00:45 -0500 Subject: Truecrypt kernel issues Message-ID: Hello Sometime back 2005?, I do recall truecrypt was in the kernel. That was just about the same time AES got in the kernel. Shortly after that, there was controversy, do not recall the details but truecrypt ended up being yanked out of the kernel. I have done a bit of googling to refresh myself of the episode, but google does not seem to pick anything to do with that affair. Anyway one recall why truecrypt was removed from the kernel? Or at least, anyone able to get a link about that commotion? I was interested to check it to see if that issue still exist in the current version of truecrypt Regards William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 00:35:27 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:35:27 -0500 Subject: Linuxfest 2011 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110222003527.GA4019@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 04:41:16PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Just got word that there will be a Linuxfest 2011 that will be headed > up by Ushnish Sengupta and the folks at FreeGeek Toronto. More details > to follow. Names are confusing. Is this continuation of what used to be held near Airport? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 00:40:35 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:40:35 -0500 Subject: Truecrypt kernel issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D630603.2010105@utoronto.ca> On 2/21/2011 6:00 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hello > > Sometime back 2005?, I do recall truecrypt was in the kernel. That > was just about the same time AES got in the kernel. Shortly after > that, there was controversy, do not recall the details but truecrypt > ended up being yanked out of the kernel. I have done a bit of > googling to refresh myself of the episode, but google does not seem to > pick anything to do with that affair. > > Anyway one recall why truecrypt was removed from the kernel? Or at > least, anyone able to get a link about that commotion? I was > interested to check it to see if that issue still exist in the current > version of truecrypt The consensus seems to be that the truecrypt license isn't a full-on FOSS compatible license: https://lkml.org/lkml/2007/11/6/29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueCrypt#Licensing http://www.truecrypt.org/legal/license Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 01:03:14 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:03:14 -0500 Subject: Burning 2 DVD simultaneously... slow In-Reply-To: References: <20110221174208.GA4651@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110222010314.GB4019@node1.opengeometry.net> My CPU is 3.2GHz dual-core, and I was burning Debian-6.0 DVD 1-8 actually. My HD is ubiquitous 500GB SATA, so it should be fast enough. The command I use is growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=debian-6.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso Maybe it's the program, because it's designed for generating ISO structure on the fly. But, I'm reading straight ISO files without doing anything. -- William On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 03:20:50PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > I have set up a box to do 4 at a time, and experienced similar. > the issue was, that in the burning, the process is assembling the iso > (on the HD or in memory as it goes) and this takes CPU, at the time > i just had single core. > if you have the ISO's all on hd, then to do 2 dvd burns you are just > reading from the HD (2 iso's concurrently) and writing to your two dvd burners, > but if you don't burn from pre-assembled iso files, > you are asking the burn process (both of them) so read > the files from HD and assemble them on fly, > then out to the DVD. If you have lots of small files as well > you are looking at a lot of head movement on the HD, > and also DVD burners can be quite fast, not as fast as a > HD , but still pretty quick. To rule out iso assembly issues, > you should attempt the dual burn from just ISO files, > and if your HD is say 2x faster then the combined throughtput burn > of your dvd burners, then you would expect the dual burn to take about > as fast as a single. > > tl > > On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:42 PM, William Park wrote: > > I usually burn 1 DVD at a time, so I didn't noticed this before. ?When > > burning 2 DVD-RW simultaneously (one SATA burner and one USB burner), > > the speed crawls and fluctuates. ?I would've thought modern computer is > > more than capable of handling 2 DVDs at the same time. ?Anyone > > experienced this? > > -- > > William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 01:17:48 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 20:17:48 -0500 Subject: Burning 2 DVD simultaneously... slow In-Reply-To: <20110222010314.GB4019-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110221174208.GA4651@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110222010314.GB4019@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: make sure your dvd burners are operating dma mode. if the dvd you are creating is 10,000 of files having to be accessed and formatted into ISO fs format, hmmm may be enough work (doing two at a time) to reasonable (and no surprise) bottle neck something. but if you are reading straight iso files then sounds like not-dma to me. could also be dvd drives are working with a burn-proof (or variant) that is having issues. Download a free copy of Nero for linux (30 day eval) see how it does .. not sure about dual burning with it, or have it burn one, while using grow for the other, try k3b and brasero as well, maybe with one you will find some clues. tl On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 8:03 PM, William Park wrote: > My CPU is 3.2GHz dual-core, and I was burning Debian-6.0 DVD 1-8 > actually. ?My HD is ubiquitous 500GB SATA, so it should be fast enough. > The command I use is > > ? ?growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=debian-6.0.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso > > Maybe it's the program, because it's designed for generating ISO > structure on the fly. ?But, I'm reading straight ISO files without doing > anything. > -- > William > > On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 03:20:50PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: >> I have set up a box to do 4 at a time, and experienced similar. >> the issue was, that in the burning, the process is assembling the iso >> (on the HD or in memory as it goes) and this takes CPU, at the time >> i just had single core. >> if you have the ISO's all on hd, then to do 2 dvd burns you are just >> reading from the HD (2 iso's concurrently) and writing to your two dvd burners, >> but if you don't burn from pre-assembled iso files, >> you are asking the burn process (both of them) so read >> the files from HD and assemble them on fly, >> then out to the DVD. If you have lots of small files as well >> you are looking at a lot of head movement on the HD, >> and also DVD burners can be quite fast, not as fast as a >> HD , but still pretty quick. To rule out iso assembly issues, >> you should attempt the dual burn from just ISO files, >> and if your HD is say 2x faster then the combined throughtput burn >> of your dvd burners, then you would expect the dual burn to take about >> as fast as a single. >> >> tl >> >> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:42 PM, William Park wrote: >> > I usually burn 1 DVD at a time, so I didn't noticed this before. ?When >> > burning 2 DVD-RW simultaneously (one SATA burner and one USB burner), >> > the speed crawls and fluctuates. ?I would've thought modern computer is >> > more than capable of handling 2 DVDs at the same time. ?Anyone >> > experienced this? >> > -- >> > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 02:03:23 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:03:23 -0500 Subject: Linuxfest 2011 In-Reply-To: <20110222003527.GA4019-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222003527.GA4019@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 7:35 PM, William Park wrote: > On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 04:41:16PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Just got word that there will be a Linuxfest 2011 that will be headed >> up by Ushnish Sengupta and the folks at FreeGeek Toronto. More details >> to follow. > > Names are confusing. ?Is this continuation of what used to be held near > Airport? This is a different group planning to do something similar to the old event that was held by the airport. Colin. > -- > William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 02:15:36 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:15:36 -0500 Subject: Truecrypt kernel issues In-Reply-To: <4D630603.2010105-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4D630603.2010105@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Jamon, > > The consensus seems to be that the truecrypt license isn't a full-on FOSS > compatible license: > I think there was license changed after it was removed from the kernel. There was a time it was actually in the kernel and then replaced by dmcrypt. If the license was the issue all along, then it would not have got in the kernel in early 2000s > https://lkml.org/lkml/2007/11/6/29 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueCrypt#Licensing > http://www.truecrypt.org/legal/license > > Jamon > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 07:55:27 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 02:55:27 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... Message-ID: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> ...is that it works out of the box. I've been running Gentoo for a few years, so I'm not afraid to tweak kernel options. I finally got an Acer Aspire 4551 notebook fully functional in 64-bit Gentoo, but the process was "an epic saga". Once you know what has to be done it's dead easy. Finding out what has to be done is the problem. I'm unofficially retired, burning off some accumulated leave, so I have some spare time on my hands. I don't recommend this for the average user, unless they get a machine with linux pre-loaded. Here are are the issues I ran into... 1) Getting USB mice and keyboards and other low-speed USB devices to work requires the USB OHCI driver be installed alongside the USB EHCI driver. Tthe "Root Hub Transaction Translators" item is *SUPPOSED* to provide OHCI support via the EHCI driver. But for this machine, it doesn't work. 2) An additional entry in the kernel is required to get the Broadcom Tigon 3 gigabit ethernet working. 3) Power management (remember, this is a notebook) is a wiki article in itself. 4) Setting up the ATI/Radeon video card to enable full hardware acceleration requires downloading a firmware blob and entering the directory into the kernel config. 5) The webcam doesn't show up under "lspci". It's connected internally via USB, and shows up under "lsusb". 6) The microphone (built-in or external plugged in) will not function if the standard Intel HDA sound driver (Realtek codec) is compiled into the kernel. If the sound driver is built as a module (no other changes), the microphone will work. How many of you know how to turn on capture mode using alsamixer? This process, or equivalant, is required to get sound recordings working. 7) The basic command for recording sound in ALSA mode is... ffmpeg -y -f alsa -i plughw:0,0 audio1.wav How many of you have ever heard of "plughw:0,0"? The OSS mode version ffmpeg -y -f oss -i /dev/dsp audio2.wav is more readable. I'm not denying that people would have problems installing Windows 7 on a blank machine. But Windows users don't normally have to. Many linux users have to install linux on a blank machine. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 13:27:37 2011 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:27:37 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu / Gnome / panel oddness Message-ID: Hi TLUG, A puzzle for you .. the panel at the bottom of my desktop shows a map of my virtual desktops, next to the recycle bin. I use a 5x2 pattern of virtual desktops. --------------- [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] --------------- It worked fine until something went BLARG a few days ago, and the windows on my five or six desktops were suddenly merged into a single desktop, and my 5x2 pattern had become a 2x1 pattern. ------ [ ][ ] ------ I opened up properties and added a row ------ [ ][ ] [ ][ ] ------ and then started moving things back to where I could get back to work. Later I reconfigured the properties and expanded it back to a 5x2 pattern, eventually I logged off. On logging back on, I discovered my map had changed to --------------- E ]E ]E ]E ]E ] --------------- Each E ] was two virtual desktops -- all ten of my virtual desktops are now contained in the top half of the map, and the bottom half of the map is empty. Any suggestions on how to fix this? Thanks! -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 15:11:00 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:11:00 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu / Gnome / panel oddness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:27 AM, Alex Beamish wrote: > > Any suggestions on how to fix this? Thanks! I've noticed that recent Gnome updates have stomped all over my preferences. Just opening the System -> Preferences -> Appearance menu reverts most of them to what I want. This might work for you. Stewart -- http://scruss.com/blog/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 15:49:13 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:49:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110222075527.GA9955-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | years, so I'm not afraid to tweak kernel options. I finally got an Acer | Aspire 4551 notebook fully functional in 64-bit Gentoo, but the process | was "an epic saga". Once you know what has to be done it's dead easy. | Finding out what has to be done is the problem. Yes. Some notebooks are way harder than others. Some devices are way harder than others. Some distros do better than others for particular hardware. Over the many years that I've used Linux, installations have gotten a lot friendlier. One side-effect is that when something goes wrong it is actually harder to deal with. On the other hand, a lot of cases just work. Notebooks are tough. They have a lot of oddball integrated peripherals. Some aren't worth figuring out (eg. my ThinkPad has a fingerprint reader that can be supported but I don't care enough to figure that out). Ubuntu claims (claimed?) to have put a lot of work into making their distro work on all the notebooks they could get their hands on. I used to use http://www.linux-laptop.net/ to share hints about particular notebooks. Bad feature: they expect you to host the content and that doesn't work well. Ubuntu has an equivalent, I think. Please record you findings somewhere that people will discover via Google. My impression is that Gentoo is a DIY distro so things might be more work but you might be able to solve more problems. That opinion is not worth much because I've never tried Gentoo. | 1) Getting USB mice and keyboards and other low-speed USB devices to | work requires the USB OHCI driver be installed alongside the USB EHCI | driver. Tthe "Root Hub Transaction Translators" item is *SUPPOSED* to | provide OHCI support via the EHCI driver. But for this machine, it | doesn't work. I don't remember anything like this problem with the distros I've used. | 2) An additional entry in the kernel is required to get the Broadcom | Tigon 3 gigabit ethernet working. I don't know what an "entry" is. Enabling another switch in the kernel config file? | 3) Power management (remember, this is a notebook) is a wiki article in | itself. These days I've not had much trouble. But I agree that "sleep" and "hybernate" can be intractable. The BIOS ACPI tables are often buggy. | 4) Setting up the ATI/Radeon video card to enable full hardware | acceleration requires downloading a firmware blob and entering the | directory into the kernel config. I don't know what you mean by "firmware blog". To fully use the hardware I think that you need the ATI proprietary driver (which may or may not involve a firmware blob, but that is its business). | 5) The webcam doesn't show up under "lspci". It's connected internally | via USB, and shows up under "lsusb". Not surprising to me. | 7) The basic command for recording sound in ALSA mode is... | | ffmpeg -y -f alsa -i plughw:0,0 audio1.wav | | How many of you have ever heard of "plughw:0,0"? The OSS mode version | | ffmpeg -y -f oss -i /dev/dsp audio2.wav | | is more readable. Surely ffmpeg is not a basic command. There must be something more basic. ffmpeg's flags are not simple either. I generally let Pulseaudio handle sound these days. Many people detest it. I admit that I spent an hour or two last night struggling with MythTV front-end problems that turned out to be related to sound. The symptoms were pretty odd (including the front-end hanging with a black screen). So sound is NOT as simple and straightforward as one would expect. For the record: the frontend was using the audio output device setting "ALSA:default" and it needed to use "ALSA:pulse". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 16:45:36 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 11:45:36 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <20110219202120.GA4071-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> <20110219202120.GA4071@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110222164536.GI347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 03:21:21PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > OK, let's do an apples-to-apples comparison... Opera versus Firefox-bin. > I had to do this in a 32-bit Gentoo guest inside KVM, because there is > no pure 64-bit Firefox-bin available. Firefox wants dbus and gtk and > cairo and pango and sqlite (either built-in or standalone), which Opera > doesn't need. No pure 64bit firefox? Really? /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.2/xulrunner-stub: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped /home/lennartsorensen/firefox/firefox-bin: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, stripped I don't see it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 16:50:37 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 11:50:37 -0500 Subject: Burning 2 DVD simultaneously... slow In-Reply-To: <20110221174208.GA4651-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110221174208.GA4651@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110222165037.GJ347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:42:09PM -0500, William Park wrote: > I usually burn 1 DVD at a time, so I didn't noticed this before. When > burning 2 DVD-RW simultaneously (one SATA burner and one USB burner), > the speed crawls and fluctuates. I would've thought modern computer is > more than capable of handling 2 DVDs at the same time. Anyone > experienced this? USB (except USB3) is highly CPU intensive. So I am not surprised at all in fact. USB is convinient, but also complete crap. eSATA is good, firewire is good, USB3 is good. USB1 and USB2 are crap. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 17:04:52 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 09:04:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Burning 2 DVD simultaneously... slow In-Reply-To: <20110222165037.GJ347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110221174208.GA4651@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110222165037.GJ347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <282009.26501.qm@web113417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> How is USB3 different from USB1&2 ? I thought they are using the same chipset, except faster down the wire. -- William ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lennart Sorensen > Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 11:50:37 AM > > On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:42:09PM -0500, William Park wrote: > > I usually burn 1 DVD at a time, so I didn't noticed this before. When > > burning 2 DVD-RW simultaneously (one SATA burner and one USB burner), > > the speed crawls and fluctuates. I would've thought modern computer is > > more than capable of handling 2 DVDs at the same time. Anyone > > experienced this? > > USB (except USB3) is highly CPU intensive. So I am not surprised at > all in fact. > > USB is convinient, but also complete crap. > > eSATA is good, firewire is good, USB3 is good. USB1 and USB2 are crap. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 17:21:56 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 12:21:56 -0500 Subject: Burning 2 DVD simultaneously... slow In-Reply-To: <282009.26501.qm-iGg6QNsgFOFeqboJWQvT7/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20110221174208.GA4651@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110222165037.GJ347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <282009.26501.qm@web113417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110222172156.GK347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 09:04:52AM -0800, William Park wrote: > How is USB3 different from USB1&2 ? I thought they are using the same chipset, > except faster down the wire. No, very different. One of the biggest mistakes in USB1 and 2 was the lack of an interrupt system. USB 3 has interrupts. So where USB 1 and 2 had to constantly poll devices to see if they were done, with USB 3 the device can simply send an interrupt when it has completed a task. I believe USB 3 also adds some DMA capabilities (using the interrupt system) which should help offload the CPU, which at 4.8Gbps is pretty much required. So USB 3 chips are completely new, although they have USB 2 and USB 1 backwards compatibility support, just as USB 2 was backwards compatible with USB 1. USB 3 also has new wires, in fact two pairs, one transmit, one receive, so it is full duplex. USB 1 and 2 has only one pair of wires which is used to both send and receive (the other two wires in USB1/2 are power). USB 3 uses the power wires from USB1/2 and can do some signalling as well as backwards compatibility work on the USB1/2 data line, while using the new signals for the high speed stuff. Being full duplex is part of what allows the interrupt system since there is a dedicated path for sending messages to the host rather than having to wait for the host to ask a question. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 17:29:06 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 12:29:06 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <20110222164536.GI347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> <20110219202120.GA4071@waltdnes.org> <20110222164536.GI347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110222172906.GA11268@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:45:36AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote > No pure 64bit firefox? Really? Because the post I was replying to said that I was comparing source-code versus compiled executable, I deliberately chose firefox-bin. The Gentoo ebuild, at least, appears to require 32-bit compatability support in a 64-bit install. That's not "pure 64-bit" as far as I'm concerned. Do you have 32-bit multilib support enabled? Here's what I got when trying to emerge firefox-bin in a 64-bit environment with no 32-bit multilib support... ===================================================================== [i3][root][~] emerge -pv firefox-bin These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! !!! All ebuilds that could satisfy "firefox-bin" have been masked. !!! One of the following masked packages is required to complete your request: - www-client/firefox-bin-3.6.13 (masked by: package.mask) /usr/portage/profiles/features/64bit-native/package.mask: # AMD64 Team # Mask packages that rely on amd64 multilib For more information, see the MASKED PACKAGES section in the emerge man page or refer to the Gentoo Handbook. ===================================================================== -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 18:02:42 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:02:42 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <4D5BC839.2050904-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > On 11-02-16 07:34 , John Myshrall wrote: >> >> I watched last nights episode. Very impressive. > > Yeah, but now a computer can do it, it's another thing we don't need to. > Like long division. > > Kind of reminds me of this comic from a local artist: > > (caution, mild swearies) And here's the "Linux gag" on Watson... http://9gag.com/gag/82232 (Sadly, "fsck doesn't do that"... Slightly disappointing they didn't use mkfs...) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 18:09:06 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:09:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <20110222172906.GA11268-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> <20110219202120.GA4071@waltdnes.org> <20110222164536.GI347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110222172906.GA11268@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:45:36AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote | | > No pure 64bit firefox? Really? | | Because the post I was replying to said that I was comparing | source-code versus compiled executable, I deliberately chose | firefox-bin. The Gentoo ebuild, at least, appears to require 32-bit | compatability support in a 64-bit install. That's not "pure 64-bit" as | far as I'm concerned. Do you have 32-bit multilib support enabled? | Here's what I got when trying to emerge firefox-bin in a 64-bit | environment with no 32-bit multilib support... What does that mean? A process, as far as I know, is either 32-bit or 64-bit. Requiring multilib support (i.e. two copies of selected libraries, one version 32-bit and one version 64-bit) suggests some 32-bit programs are expected to be run. What could they be? Most probably some plugin adapter to run Adobe Flash (because it is only available in binary form and usually only in 32-bit at that). So this is likely some kind of Gentoo packager's choice. Since I avoid Flash, I don't have much sympathy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 18:32:59 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:32:59 -0500 Subject: Why I've switched to Opera In-Reply-To: <20110222172906.GA11268-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110218051306.GB23795@waltdnes.org> <20110219202120.GA4071@waltdnes.org> <20110222164536.GI347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110222172906.GA11268@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110222183259.GL347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:29:06PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:45:36AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote > > > No pure 64bit firefox? Really? > > Because the post I was replying to said that I was comparing > source-code versus compiled executable, I deliberately chose > firefox-bin. The Gentoo ebuild, at least, appears to require 32-bit > compatability support in a 64-bit install. That's not "pure 64-bit" as > far as I'm concerned. Do you have 32-bit multilib support enabled? > Here's what I got when trying to emerge firefox-bin in a 64-bit > environment with no 32-bit multilib support... Some plugins may still be 32bit, although I am not sure I have any of those installed anymore. > ===================================================================== > [i3][root][~] emerge -pv firefox-bin > > These are the packages that would be merged, in order: > > Calculating dependencies... done! > > !!! All ebuilds that could satisfy "firefox-bin" have been masked. > !!! One of the following masked packages is required to complete your > request: > - www-client/firefox-bin-3.6.13 (masked by: package.mask) > /usr/portage/profiles/features/64bit-native/package.mask: > # AMD64 Team > # Mask packages that rely on amd64 multilib > > For more information, see the MASKED PACKAGES section in the emerge > man page or refer to the Gentoo Handbook. > ===================================================================== The debian package for firefox does not depend on any 32bit lib support, which to me means it is a pure 64bit package these days. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 18:37:37 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:37:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: clocksource=hpet Message-ID: <688074.71770.qm@web113414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> FYI... Ever since I upgraded from single-core (2.4GHz) to dual-core (3.2GHz), I've been experiencing - hanging during boot, sometimes for short time, sometimes for long time, sometimes forever. - reboot during boot, leaving nothing in /var/log/messages. - flaky operation for CPU freq scaling, ie. poorer performance with no freq scaling. At first, I thought it was due to VESA framebuffer, because ordinary VGA (vga=normal) boots okey. I tried all variations of "vga=NNN", but it was unpredictable. Sometimes, vga=773 will boot, and sometimes it will not. I was about to give up, until I caught a glimpse of Clocksource tsc unstable scrolling by. Googling a bit, solution was kernel parameter clocksource=hpet Still doesn't solve my poor Flash Video playing, or inability to burn 2 DVDs, though. Try that before putting hammer to your machine. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 18:54:56 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:54:56 -0500 Subject: Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: References: <4D5AB782.9070207@ve3syb.ca> <4D5AF632.7060905@ve3syb.ca> <20110215234221.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4D5B1E1C.1020509@ve3syb.ca> <4D5BC439.6000402@yaknet.ca> <4D5BC839.2050904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110222185456.GM347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 01:02:42PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > And here's the "Linux gag" on Watson... > http://9gag.com/gag/82232 > > (Sadly, "fsck doesn't do that"... Slightly disappointing they didn't > use mkfs...) Sheesh, if they are going to try and be funny, at least try to be correct. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 19:01:32 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 14:01:32 -0500 Subject: NOT Watson and Jeopardy Message-ID: On Thursday, CBC will be airing a documentary called "Remote Control War" which looks into the current and near-future state of the militarization of AI. Trailer at: I look forward to conversation about this in light of Watson's achievement. -- ? Scott Elcomb ? http://www.psema4.com/?? @psema4 ? Clerk of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 19:52:52 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 14:52:52 -0500 Subject: NOT Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110222195252.GN347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 02:01:32PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Thursday, CBC will be airing a documentary called "Remote Control > War" which looks into the current and near-future state of the > militarization of AI. > > > > Trailer at: > > I look forward to conversation about this in light of Watson's achievement. Why? Watson is not an AI, and never claimed to be as far as I know. Now AI is neat, but not really at all the same thing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 20:04:48 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 15:04:48 -0500 Subject: NOT Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: <20110222195252.GN347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222195252.GN347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 02:01:32PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> On Thursday, CBC will be airing a documentary called "Remote Control >> War" which looks into the current and near-future state of the >> militarization of AI. >> >> >> >> Trailer at: >> >> I look forward to conversation about this in light of Watson's achievement. > > Why? ?Watson is not an AI, and never claimed to be as far as I know. > > Now AI is neat, but not really at all the same thing. "Watson is an artificial intelligence computer system capable of answering questions posed in natural language, developed in IBM's DeepQA project by a research team led by principal investigator David Ferrucci. Watson was named for IBM's first president, Thomas J. Watson. The program operates on POWER7 processor-based systems. In 2011, as a test of its abilities, Watson competed on the quiz show Jeopardy!, in the show's first and only human-versus-machine matchup." Later in the overview, the entry states "Watson is a question answering (QA) computing system built by IBM. IBM describes it as 'an application of advanced Natural Language Processing, Information Retrieval, Knowledge Representation and Reasoning, and Machine Learning technologies to the field of open domain question answering' which is 'built on IBM's DeepQA technology for hypothesis generation, massive evidence gathering, analysis, and scoring.'" I believe Watson falls squarely under the umbrella term of Artificial Intelligence. -- ? Scott Elcomb ? http://www.psema4.com/?? @psema4 ? Clerk of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 20:15:55 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 15:15:55 -0500 Subject: NOT Watson and Jeopardy In-Reply-To: References: <20110222195252.GN347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110222201555.GO347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 03:04:48PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > "Watson is an artificial intelligence computer system capable of > answering questions posed in natural language, developed in IBM's > DeepQA project by a research team led by principal investigator David > Ferrucci. Watson was named for IBM's first president, Thomas J. > Watson. The program operates on POWER7 processor-based systems. OK, not what I consider AI. Well what do I know about AI anyhow then. :) > In 2011, as a test of its abilities, Watson competed on the quiz show > Jeopardy!, in the show's first and only human-versus-machine matchup." > > > > Later in the overview, the entry states "Watson is a question > answering (QA) computing system built by IBM. IBM describes it as 'an > application of advanced Natural Language Processing, Information > Retrieval, Knowledge Representation and Reasoning, and Machine > Learning technologies to the field of open domain question answering' > which is 'built on IBM's DeepQA technology for hypothesis generation, > massive evidence gathering, analysis, and scoring.'" > > I believe Watson falls squarely under the umbrella term of Artificial > Intelligence. Hmm, OK. I stand corrected. I didn't think what it did would qualify as AI. Watson is very very impressive either way. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Feb 22 21:09:29 2011 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:09:29 -0500 Subject: OT VGA Matrix Switchers Message-ID: Sorry for this off topic but are there any physical stores in Toronto that sell VGA Matrix Switches. For anybody who doesn't know, a 2x2 VGA Matrix Switch to use one example can take 2 vga inputs and 2 vga displays. So if we call the two inputs A and B and the two outputs A and B, then the matrix switch allows to see input A on outputs A and B or input B on outputs A and B or input A on output A and input B on output B and viceversa all without swapping cables. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 23 00:03:34 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:03:34 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110223000334.GA11422@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 10:49:13AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > Please record you findings somewhere that people will discover via > Google. See http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/238950 for the full scoop on my "excellent adventure". > | ffmpeg -y -f alsa -i plughw:0,0 audio1.wav > | > | How many of you have ever heard of "plughw:0,0"? The OSS mode version > | > | ffmpeg -y -f oss -i /dev/dsp audio2.wav > | > | is more readable. > > Surely ffmpeg is not a basic command. There must be something more > basic. ffmpeg's flags are not simple either. The commands I show here are basic. They can get a lot uglier. Another reason I used ffmpeg in the sound recording examples is that I also used it in the video (from the webcam) recording examples, not to mention the combined video+audio recording example. No point in using yet another program to complicate things. > I generally let Pulseaudio handle sound these days. Many people > detest it. Pulseaudio simplifies dealing with sound... in return for the added complexity of dealing with Pulseaudio. I'm neutral about sound daemons... I hate them all. ARTS, ESD, and now Pulseaudio. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 23 01:21:39 2011 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 20:21:39 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu / Gnome / panel oddness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Stewart Russell wrote: > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:27 AM, Alex Beamish wrote: >> >> Any suggestions on how to fix this? Thanks! > > I've noticed that recent Gnome updates have stomped all over my > preferences. Just opening the System -> Preferences -> Appearance menu > reverts most of them to what I want. This might work for you. Excellent -- I deleted the goofed up thing, then right-clicked on the panel and added it back in. All fixed now. Many thanks! -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 23 13:16:46 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 08:16:46 -0500 Subject: PG East Message-ID: Anyone planning to go to this ? Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 23 17:03:57 2011 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 12:03:57 -0500 Subject: Tom's Definitive Linux Software Roundup: Audio AppsIntroduction Message-ID: <4D653DFD.5030405@gmail.com> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ubuntu-linux-audio-software,2856.html Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 23 23:28:40 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 18:28:40 -0500 Subject: new kvm usb troubles - help! Message-ID: I just bought a 4 port dual view dual-dvi kvm from iogear 1644 The first bad but not surprising news is that the hot keys don't work, i have to actually press the port select on the device to get it to route my monitors to the selected computer. The reason for this is, my keyboard and mouse is a all in one unit (single usb connect), so it plugs to the usb peripherals jack on the kvm (this kvm switches usb, audio, keyboard, mouse, and video), but the device (confirmed by tech support call just now), only recognized the hot key from the usb keyboard port (on kvm), and not a keyboard on a generic usb (i.e. mine is keyboard mouse all in one). But this isn't to bad provided i can place the unit wthin arms-fingers reach (and i have another idea - more later). (i worry however that over the years i may wear out buttons on the devices console as apposed to using keyboard issued hot keys). The serious issue i have is, on the switch between ports (computers), the usb devices are reoffered, but the order is problematic. If i switch using the kvm, the mouse stops when i come back to my main linux machine. If i physically unplug the usb at the computer (cable between kvm and computer), it comes back, and the device order is opposite (see below), if i issue a soft usb reset from the hot keys (on a second keyboard into the kvm in keyboard port) it also works, but it doesn't work (usb device come up in opposite order) if i use kvm port switch. xinput shows the usbPS2 devices and ATEN but i can not get xsetpointer of xinput set-pointer to work as device names are same , and if i use device # it fails as well. usb black list doesn't seem to help, because from what i see, it is for modules only, and that doesn't work for me. I also tried removing the hid usb module and reinserting but this has it come up in the wrong order again :( it's odd that depending on how i reset the usb bus, the order is consistently different, i.e.: phyiscal usb cable in/out comes up with order i want, kvm port switch not the right order, kvm usb bus soft reset is right order, linux module out/in wrong order. SO, my question is, can i some how in linux control the order, or better yet get it to not accept the ATEN device? Also, if i plug my mouse/keyboard combo into the dedicated keyboard or mouse jack i (not so surprisingly) only get the one functionality, but (ok maybe dumb question here), isn't a usb device a usb device? if i plug my combo keyboard and mouse into the "keyboard kvm port", why can't it intercept my keyboard strokes (for hot key detection), and pass across whatever "mouse" data is on it too? If i can just get control over the usb device order (or blacklist ATEN) i can fix this one issue, any suggestions? b.t.w. the soft reset issued from the keyboard is a pain as it involves a hold this, hold this, release, release, press type pain-in-the-ass keyboard combination (and i don't want to have to have a 2nd keyboard present just to issue kvm hot key sequences). and on a really why out thought, could i get a usb port on my computer to act as a keyboard usb device to the kvm? i.e. connect a usb to usb cable from pc to kvm (in kvm dedicated keyboard usb jack), and I can feed the usb data to the kvm (not by a keyboard , but from a usb port on computer faking as a keyboard)? (ok i did say "why out thought here!"). the iogear 1644 kvm does however do the core piece i needed, which is KVM for dual monitor dual-dvi two monitors ( at 2560x1600 res) to 3 or more (it can route upto 4 computers) to share the dual dual dvi view set up. unfortunately on the switching, the monitors (or is it the unit, i don't know), its about a 1/3-2/3 of a second to switch between views, which is a little disappointing (last i used a kvm on crt monitor, monitor switching had no detectable switching lag, i am guessing the dvi add some lag in the loop for some hand shaking or something). I couldn't find any other kvm devices close to the 550$ price range of this one, so not sure there are others that work better. To solve the hot key issue, i may get a programmable keyboard (hopefully find a cheap one), that i could program the port switch keyboard sequence in a macro and get it to fire on a singe keypress, but i have to solve the linux usb order detection issue first. below is dmesg , one where it works (notice order), and one where doesn't: DOESNT WORK [4814267.775320] input: ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11? as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.4/2-5.4:1.0/input/input103 [4814267.800288] generic-usb 0003:0557:2213.0063: input,hidraw2: USB HID v1.00 Keyboard [ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11?] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.4/input0 [4814267.820815] input: ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11? as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.4/2-5.4:1.1/input/input104 [4814267.852309] generic-usb 0003:0557:2213.0064: input,hidraw3: USB HID v1.00 Mouse [ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11?] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.4/input1 [4814982.125905] usb 2-5.2: USB disconnect, address 46 [4814989.252313] usb 2-5.1: new low speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 48 [4814989.368340] usb 2-5.1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice [4814989.371921] input: USBPS2 as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.1/2-5.1:1.0/input/input105 [4814989.400282] generic-usb 0003:0D3D:0001.0065: input,hidraw0: USB HID v1.00 Keyboard [USBPS2] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.1/input0 [4814989.404536] input: USBPS2 as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.1/2-5.1:1.1/input/input106 [4814989.448434] generic-usb 0003:0D3D:0001.0066: input,hidraw1: USB HID v1.00 Mouse [USBPS2] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.1/input1 WORKS [4815033.912365] input: USBPS2 as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.1/2-5.1:1.0/input/input107 [4815033.936282] generic-usb 0003:0D3D:0001.0067: input,hidraw0: USB HID v1.00 Keyboard [USBPS2] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.1/input0 [4815033.940429] input: USBPS2 as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.1/2-5.1:1.1/input/input108 [4815033.988347] generic-usb 0003:0D3D:0001.0068: input,hidraw1: USB HID v1.00 Mouse [USBPS2] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.1/input1 [4815039.725105] usb 2-5.4: USB disconnect, address 47 [4815042.252326] usb 2-5.4: new low speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 50 [4815042.415105] usb 2-5.4: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice [4815042.435925] input: ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11? as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.4/2-5.4:1.0/input/input109 [4815042.460282] generic-usb 0003:0557:2213.0069: input,hidraw2: USB HID v1.00 Keyboard [ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11?] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.4/input0 [4815042.480161] input: ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11? as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.4/2-5.4:1.1/input/input110 [4815042.520317] generic-usb 0003:0557:2213.006A: input,hidraw3: USB HID v1.00 Mouse [ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11?] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.4/input1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 23 23:38:22 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 18:38:22 -0500 Subject: new kvm usb troubles - help! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: this program allows me to kick the usb device (reset) and this gives me back mouse control, but its not ideal because i have to run it each time i return to my linux pc (on kvm), and the device # in proc changes every time i port switch the kvm (it increments). I can lsusb to find it and then run the reset program below. The program below also take a couple of seconds to reset the usb and give me back mouse control. got to be a easier way, i.e. just don't allow it to accept the ATEN usb device period. hopefully someone will have an idea that works well. tl /* usbreset -- send a USB port reset to a USB device */ #include #include #include #include #include #include int main(int argc, char **argv) { const char *filename; int fd; int rc; if (argc != 2) { fprintf(stderr, "Usage: usbreset device-filename\n"); return 1; } filename = argv[1]; fd = open(filename, O_WRONLY); if (fd < 0) { perror("Error opening output file"); return 1; } printf("Resetting USB device %s\n", filename); rc = ioctl(fd, USBDEVFS_RESET, 0); if (rc < 0) { perror("Error in ioctl"); return 1; } printf("Reset successful\n"); close(fd); return 0; } On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 6:28 PM, ted leslie wrote: > I just bought a 4 port dual view dual-dvi kvm from iogear 1644 > The first bad but not surprising news is that the hot keys don't work, > i have to actually press the port select on the device to get it to > route my monitors to the selected computer. The reason for this is, my > keyboard and mouse is a all in one unit (single usb connect), > so it plugs to the usb peripherals jack on the kvm (this kvm switches > usb, audio, keyboard, mouse, and video), > but the device (confirmed by tech support call just now), only > recognized the hot key from the usb keyboard port (on kvm), > and not a keyboard on a generic usb (i.e. mine is keyboard ? mouse all in one). > But this isn't to bad provided i can place the unit wthin arms-fingers > reach (and i have another idea - more later). > (i worry however that over the years i ?may wear out buttons on the > devices console as apposed to using keyboard issued hot keys). > > The serious issue i have is, on the switch between ports (computers), > the usb devices are reoffered, but the order is problematic. > If i switch using the kvm, the mouse stops when i come back to my main > linux machine. If i physically unplug the ?usb at the computer (cable > between kvm and computer), > it comes back, and the device order is opposite (see below), if i > issue a soft usb reset from the hot keys (on a second keyboard into > the kvm in keyboard port) > it also works, but it doesn't work (usb device come up in opposite > order) if i use kvm port switch. > xinput shows the usbPS2 devices and ATEN but i can ?not get > xsetpointer of xinput set-pointer to work as device names are same , > and if i use device # it fails as well. > > usb black list doesn't seem to help, because from what i see, it is > for modules only, and that doesn't work for me. I also tried removing > the hid usb module and reinserting > but this has it come up in the wrong order again :( ?it's odd that > depending on how i reset the usb bus, the order is consistently > different, i.e.: > > phyiscal usb cable in/out ?comes up with order i want, > ?kvm port switch not the right order, > ?kvm usb bus soft reset is right order, > ?linux module out/in wrong order. > > > SO, my question is, can i some how in linux control the order, or > better yet get it to not accept the ATEN device? > > Also, if i plug my mouse/keyboard combo into the dedicated keyboard or > mouse jack i (not so surprisingly) only get the one functionality, > but (ok maybe dumb question here), isn't a usb device a usb device? if > i plug my combo keyboard and mouse into ? ?the "keyboard kvm port", > why can't it intercept my keyboard strokes (for hot key detection), > and pass across whatever "mouse" data is on it too? > > If i can just get control over the usb device order (or blacklist > ATEN) i can fix this one issue, any suggestions? > b.t.w. the soft reset issued from the keyboard is a pain as it > involves a hold this, hold this, release, release, press type > pain-in-the-ass keyboard combination > (and i don't want to have to have a 2nd keyboard present just to issue > kvm hot key sequences). > > and on a really why out thought, could i get a usb port on my computer > to act as a keyboard usb device to the kvm? > i.e. connect a usb to usb cable from pc to kvm (in kvm dedicated > keyboard usb jack), and I can feed the usb data to > the kvm (not by a keyboard , but from a usb port on computer faking as > a keyboard)? (ok i did say "why out thought here!"). > > the iogear 1644 kvm does however do the core piece i needed, which is > KVM for dual monitor dual-dvi ?two monitors ( at 2560x1600 res) to 3 > or more (it can route upto 4 computers) to share the dual dual dvi > view set up. > unfortunately on the switching, the monitors (or is it the unit, i > don't know), its about a 1/3-2/3 of a second to switch between views, > which is a little disappointing (last i used a kvm on crt monitor, > monitor switching had no detectable switching lag, i am guessing the > dvi add some lag in the loop for some hand shaking or something). > I couldn't find any other kvm devices close to the 550$ price range of > this one, so not sure there are others that work better. > To solve the hot key issue, i may get a programmable keyboard > (hopefully find a cheap one), that i could program the port switch > keyboard sequence in a macro and get it to fire on a singe keypress, > but i have to solve the linux usb order detection issue first. > > below is dmesg , one where it works (notice order), and one where doesn't: > DOESNT WORK > [4814267.775320] input: ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11? as > /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.4/2-5.4:1.0/input/input103 > [4814267.800288] generic-usb 0003:0557:2213.0063: input,hidraw2: USB > HID v1.00 Keyboard [ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11?] on > usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.4/input0 > [4814267.820815] input: ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11? as > /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.4/2-5.4:1.1/input/input104 > [4814267.852309] generic-usb 0003:0557:2213.0064: input,hidraw3: USB > HID v1.00 Mouse [ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11?] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.4/input1 > [4814982.125905] usb 2-5.2: USB disconnect, address 46 > [4814989.252313] usb 2-5.1: new low speed USB device using ehci_hcd > and address 48 > [4814989.368340] usb 2-5.1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice > [4814989.371921] input: USBPS2 as > /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.1/2-5.1:1.0/input/input105 > [4814989.400282] generic-usb 0003:0D3D:0001.0065: input,hidraw0: USB > HID v1.00 Keyboard [USBPS2] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.1/input0 > [4814989.404536] input: USBPS2 as > /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.1/2-5.1:1.1/input/input106 > [4814989.448434] generic-usb 0003:0D3D:0001.0066: input,hidraw1: USB > HID v1.00 Mouse [USBPS2] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.1/input1 > > > > WORKS > [4815033.912365] input: USBPS2 as > /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.1/2-5.1:1.0/input/input107 > [4815033.936282] generic-usb 0003:0D3D:0001.0067: input,hidraw0: USB > HID v1.00 Keyboard [USBPS2] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.1/input0 > [4815033.940429] input: USBPS2 as > /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.1/2-5.1:1.1/input/input108 > [4815033.988347] generic-usb 0003:0D3D:0001.0068: input,hidraw1: USB > HID v1.00 Mouse [USBPS2] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.1/input1 > [4815039.725105] usb 2-5.4: USB disconnect, address 47 > [4815042.252326] usb 2-5.4: new low speed USB device using ehci_hcd > and address 50 > [4815042.415105] usb 2-5.4: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice > [4815042.435925] input: ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11? as > /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.4/2-5.4:1.0/input/input109 > [4815042.460282] generic-usb 0003:0557:2213.0069: input,hidraw2: USB > HID v1.00 Keyboard [ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11?] on > usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.4/input0 > [4815042.480161] input: ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11? as > /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.4/2-5.4:1.1/input/input110 > [4815042.520317] generic-usb 0003:0557:2213.006A: input,hidraw3: USB > HID v1.00 Mouse [ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11?] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.4/input1 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Feb 23 23:50:37 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 18:50:37 -0500 Subject: new kvm usb troubles - help! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: just dawned on me, if i can get an event to fire when usb subsystem has a change, i can just get it to run this reset (below). also the c program when run, it returns mouse to me immediate, it just takes a few seconds to return to shell (so thats not an issue). so falling a more elegant solution, if i can intercept a usb subsystem change, and have to execute a script i write, i would get what i want, all be it a super kludge. tl On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 6:38 PM, ted leslie wrote: > this program allows me to kick the usb device (reset) and this gives > me back mouse control, > but its not ideal because i have to run it each time i return to my > linux pc (on kvm), and > the device # in proc changes every time i port switch the kvm (it > increments). I can lsusb to find it and > then run the reset program below. The program below also take a couple > of seconds to reset the usb and give > me back mouse control. got to be a easier way, i.e. just don't allow > it to accept the ATEN usb device period. > hopefully someone will have an idea that works well. > > tl > > /* usbreset -- send a USB port reset to a USB device */ > > #include > #include > #include > #include > #include > > #include > > > int main(int argc, char **argv) > { > ? ? ? ?const char *filename; > ? ? ? ?int fd; > ? ? ? ?int rc; > > ? ? ? ?if (argc != 2) { > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?fprintf(stderr, "Usage: usbreset device-filename\n"); > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return 1; > ? ? ? ?} > ? ? ? ?filename = argv[1]; > > ? ? ? ?fd = open(filename, O_WRONLY); > ? ? ? ?if (fd < 0) { > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?perror("Error opening output file"); > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return 1; > ? ? ? ?} > > ? ? ? ?printf("Resetting USB device %s\n", filename); > ? ? ? ?rc = ioctl(fd, USBDEVFS_RESET, 0); > ? ? ? ?if (rc < 0) { > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?perror("Error in ioctl"); > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return 1; > ? ? ? ?} > ? ? ? ?printf("Reset successful\n"); > > ? ? ? ?close(fd); > ? ? ? ?return 0; > } > > > On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 6:28 PM, ted leslie wrote: >> I just bought a 4 port dual view dual-dvi kvm from iogear 1644 >> The first bad but not surprising news is that the hot keys don't work, >> i have to actually press the port select on the device to get it to >> route my monitors to the selected computer. The reason for this is, my >> keyboard and mouse is a all in one unit (single usb connect), >> so it plugs to the usb peripherals jack on the kvm (this kvm switches >> usb, audio, keyboard, mouse, and video), >> but the device (confirmed by tech support call just now), only >> recognized the hot key from the usb keyboard port (on kvm), >> and not a keyboard on a generic usb (i.e. mine is keyboard ? mouse all in one). >> But this isn't to bad provided i can place the unit wthin arms-fingers >> reach (and i have another idea - more later). >> (i worry however that over the years i ?may wear out buttons on the >> devices console as apposed to using keyboard issued hot keys). >> >> The serious issue i have is, on the switch between ports (computers), >> the usb devices are reoffered, but the order is problematic. >> If i switch using the kvm, the mouse stops when i come back to my main >> linux machine. If i physically unplug the ?usb at the computer (cable >> between kvm and computer), >> it comes back, and the device order is opposite (see below), if i >> issue a soft usb reset from the hot keys (on a second keyboard into >> the kvm in keyboard port) >> it also works, but it doesn't work (usb device come up in opposite >> order) if i use kvm port switch. >> xinput shows the usbPS2 devices and ATEN but i can ?not get >> xsetpointer of xinput set-pointer to work as device names are same , >> and if i use device # it fails as well. >> >> usb black list doesn't seem to help, because from what i see, it is >> for modules only, and that doesn't work for me. I also tried removing >> the hid usb module and reinserting >> but this has it come up in the wrong order again :( ?it's odd that >> depending on how i reset the usb bus, the order is consistently >> different, i.e.: >> >> phyiscal usb cable in/out ?comes up with order i want, >> ?kvm port switch not the right order, >> ?kvm usb bus soft reset is right order, >> ?linux module out/in wrong order. >> >> >> SO, my question is, can i some how in linux control the order, or >> better yet get it to not accept the ATEN device? >> >> Also, if i plug my mouse/keyboard combo into the dedicated keyboard or >> mouse jack i (not so surprisingly) only get the one functionality, >> but (ok maybe dumb question here), isn't a usb device a usb device? if >> i plug my combo keyboard and mouse into ? ?the "keyboard kvm port", >> why can't it intercept my keyboard strokes (for hot key detection), >> and pass across whatever "mouse" data is on it too? >> >> If i can just get control over the usb device order (or blacklist >> ATEN) i can fix this one issue, any suggestions? >> b.t.w. the soft reset issued from the keyboard is a pain as it >> involves a hold this, hold this, release, release, press type >> pain-in-the-ass keyboard combination >> (and i don't want to have to have a 2nd keyboard present just to issue >> kvm hot key sequences). >> >> and on a really why out thought, could i get a usb port on my computer >> to act as a keyboard usb device to the kvm? >> i.e. connect a usb to usb cable from pc to kvm (in kvm dedicated >> keyboard usb jack), and I can feed the usb data to >> the kvm (not by a keyboard , but from a usb port on computer faking as >> a keyboard)? (ok i did say "why out thought here!"). >> >> the iogear 1644 kvm does however do the core piece i needed, which is >> KVM for dual monitor dual-dvi ?two monitors ( at 2560x1600 res) to 3 >> or more (it can route upto 4 computers) to share the dual dual dvi >> view set up. >> unfortunately on the switching, the monitors (or is it the unit, i >> don't know), its about a 1/3-2/3 of a second to switch between views, >> which is a little disappointing (last i used a kvm on crt monitor, >> monitor switching had no detectable switching lag, i am guessing the >> dvi add some lag in the loop for some hand shaking or something). >> I couldn't find any other kvm devices close to the 550$ price range of >> this one, so not sure there are others that work better. >> To solve the hot key issue, i may get a programmable keyboard >> (hopefully find a cheap one), that i could program the port switch >> keyboard sequence in a macro and get it to fire on a singe keypress, >> but i have to solve the linux usb order detection issue first. >> >> below is dmesg , one where it works (notice order), and one where doesn't: >> DOESNT WORK >> [4814267.775320] input: ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11? as >> /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.4/2-5.4:1.0/input/input103 >> [4814267.800288] generic-usb 0003:0557:2213.0063: input,hidraw2: USB >> HID v1.00 Keyboard [ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11?] on >> usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.4/input0 >> [4814267.820815] input: ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11? as >> /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.4/2-5.4:1.1/input/input104 >> [4814267.852309] generic-usb 0003:0557:2213.0064: input,hidraw3: USB >> HID v1.00 Mouse [ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11?] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.4/input1 >> [4814982.125905] usb 2-5.2: USB disconnect, address 46 >> [4814989.252313] usb 2-5.1: new low speed USB device using ehci_hcd >> and address 48 >> [4814989.368340] usb 2-5.1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice >> [4814989.371921] input: USBPS2 as >> /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.1/2-5.1:1.0/input/input105 >> [4814989.400282] generic-usb 0003:0D3D:0001.0065: input,hidraw0: USB >> HID v1.00 Keyboard [USBPS2] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.1/input0 >> [4814989.404536] input: USBPS2 as >> /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.1/2-5.1:1.1/input/input106 >> [4814989.448434] generic-usb 0003:0D3D:0001.0066: input,hidraw1: USB >> HID v1.00 Mouse [USBPS2] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.1/input1 >> >> >> >> WORKS >> [4815033.912365] input: USBPS2 as >> /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.1/2-5.1:1.0/input/input107 >> [4815033.936282] generic-usb 0003:0D3D:0001.0067: input,hidraw0: USB >> HID v1.00 Keyboard [USBPS2] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.1/input0 >> [4815033.940429] input: USBPS2 as >> /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.1/2-5.1:1.1/input/input108 >> [4815033.988347] generic-usb 0003:0D3D:0001.0068: input,hidraw1: USB >> HID v1.00 Mouse [USBPS2] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.1/input1 >> [4815039.725105] usb 2-5.4: USB disconnect, address 47 >> [4815042.252326] usb 2-5.4: new low speed USB device using ehci_hcd >> and address 50 >> [4815042.415105] usb 2-5.4: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice >> [4815042.435925] input: ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11? as >> /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.4/2-5.4:1.0/input/input109 >> [4815042.460282] generic-usb 0003:0557:2213.0069: input,hidraw2: USB >> HID v1.00 Keyboard [ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11?] on >> usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.4/input0 >> [4815042.480161] input: ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11? as >> /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-5/2-5.4/2-5.4:1.1/input/input110 >> [4815042.520317] generic-usb 0003:0557:2213.006A: input,hidraw3: USB >> HID v1.00 Mouse [ATEN CS1644 V1.2.11?] on usb-0000:00:1d.7-5.4/input1 >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 00:51:19 2011 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 19:51:19 -0500 Subject: Hard Drive Recovery Message-ID: <4D65AB87.7030507@yaknet.ca> I just had a USB back up drive die recently and was going to invest $40.00 and try to replace the PCB so I can recover data. In a nut shell, neither of my systems will not power on with this drive installed. Both have good power supplies. I have also tried a USB to sata connector without any luck. Any suggestions? Why am I trying to recover a back up drive? = long stupid story. BTW I have most likely seen all the how to fix your hard drive videos on You Tube. Hammers don't work....... really! I have sent a request for further information from these guys. http://www.onepcbsolution.com/index.html Anyone dealt with them? TIA John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devonrose-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 02:21:02 2011 From: devonrose-Bm8TULXj0r/3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (DEVON AITKEN) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 21:21:02 -0500 Subject: laptop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110224022102.F101618218@ms2.vianet.ca> [TLUG]: Re: laptop writes: > On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 5:03 PM, DEVON AITKEN wrote: >> I bought a laptop a a couple weeks ago. When I bought the computer, I was >> told there was only one account and that this account was the super-user. >> But, I tried to delete a printer using "CUPS" (the printer manager) but I am >> told this is forbidden. Can I make a root account from my account or somehow >> get more control on my present account? > > Devon: > > What's the make and model of the laptop? Do you know what Linux Distro > they installed. > > Suggestion. Boot the system using a LiveCD and mount your drive. Then > you should be able to remove root password from the /etc/shadow > > 2.3 Format of the shadow file > > The /etc/shadow file contains the following information: > > username:passwd:last:may:must:warn:expire:disable:reserved > > Just leave the password area blank and then you will be able to login > as root and change the root password. > devon at DLT:~$ sudo su root at DLT:/home/devon# passwd Enter new UNIX password: Retype new UNIX password: passwd: password updated successfully I did this so now I have a root password. I will try to log in as root. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 13:58:58 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 08:58:58 -0500 Subject: xbindkeys Message-ID: I've just discovered xbindkeys and xbindkeys-config, which allow me to create hot keys that I can take with me from window manager to window manager without having to master the syntax of a new WM config file every time. But I'm running into a problem: when I run "xbindkeys" (or "xbindkeys &") in my ~/.xinitrc file, I get one key-press ("hot-key-press?") and it goes dead. If I run "xbindkeys" from a terminal, all is good thereafter. Any thoughts on getting it to launch consistently and properly? I'm currently running Debian wheezy i386 on the netbook in question, and the wmii window manager. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 15:07:49 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 10:07:49 -0500 Subject: xbindkeys In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110224150749.GA5195@watson-wilson.ca> My xinitrc file: /usr/X11R6/bin/numlockx rwp ~/wallpapers & xbindkeys # # dwm # dwm -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 15:21:43 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 10:21:43 -0500 Subject: xbindkeys In-Reply-To: <20110224150749.GA5195-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20110224150749.GA5195@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On 24 February 2011 10:07, Neil Watson wrote: > My xinitrc file: > > /usr/X11R6/bin/numlockx > rwp ~/wallpapers & > xbindkeys > > # > # dwm > # > dwm Could I ask what distro and version of Linux you're using? Did you have to do any tweaks when you set this up, or did it "just work?" Thanks. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 15:34:47 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 07:34:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hard Drive Recovery In-Reply-To: <4D65AB87.7030507-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D65AB87.7030507@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <368035.76554.qm@web113409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> If you're talking about PCB attached to the harddisk, then you're only option is to get identical disk and swap the PCB. But, I'm not sure how many points you have to solder. -- William ----- Original Message ---- > From: John Myshrall > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 7:51:19 PM > Subject: [TLUG]: Hard Drive Recovery > > I just had a USB back up drive die recently and was going to invest $40.00 and >try to replace the PCB so I can recover data. In a nut shell, neither of my >systems will not power on with this drive installed. Both have good power >supplies. I have also tried a USB to sata connector without any luck. Any >suggestions? > > Why am I trying to recover a back up drive? = long stupid story. BTW I have >most likely seen all the how to fix your hard drive videos on You Tube. >Hammers don't work....... really! > > I have sent a request for further information from these guys. >http://www.onepcbsolution.com/index.html > > Anyone dealt with them? > > TIA > > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 16:04:00 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:04:00 -0500 Subject: xbindkeys In-Reply-To: References: <20110224150749.GA5195@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20110224160400.GA30944@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:21:43AM -0500, Giles Orr wrote: >Could I ask what distro and version of Linux you're using? Did you >have to do any tweaks when you set this up, or did it "just work?" >Thanks. I'm using Debian. Has worked as is for a few years. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 17:52:14 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 12:52:14 -0500 Subject: Hard Drive Recovery In-Reply-To: <4D65AB87.7030507-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4D65AB87.7030507@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <20110224175214.GP347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 07:51:19PM -0500, John Myshrall wrote: > I just had a USB back up drive die recently and was going to invest > $40.00 and try to replace the PCB so I can recover data. In a nut > shell, neither of my systems will not power on with this drive > installed. Both have good power supplies. I have also tried a USB to > sata connector without any luck. Any suggestions? OK, you seem to have said that both your machines power on fine, which is good, except I don't think that's what you meant. If the drive is somehow shorting the power to the point that the power supply refuses to turn on when the drive is connected, then I highly doubt a PCB change will help. You may have lost the drive motor. > Why am I trying to recover a back up drive? = long stupid story. BTW I > have most likely seen all the how to fix your hard drive videos on You > Tube. Hammers don't work....... really! > > I have sent a request for further information from these guys. > http://www.onepcbsolution.com/index.html > > Anyone dealt with them? No idea. I just always remember my policy: Any data only stored in one place is by definition not important. Also a backup drive is a backup and the loss of the backup is hence never a problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 19:41:24 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:41:24 -0500 Subject: Nice screen sale (if you have any use for a 30" monster). Message-ID: <20110224194124.GR347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors_Flat_Panel_Widescreen/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=bsd&cs=cabsdt1&sku=224-9949 30" Dell reduced from $1600 to $1200. These things are nice. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 20:30:27 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:30:27 -0500 Subject: vlc in Debian Testing Message-ID: <20110224203027.GA17563@yam.witteman.ca> This morning I ran an apt-get dist-upgrade, and vlc (and its friends) got uninstalled because of a borked dependency. This is fine, and happens from time to time in Debian - usually you just reinstall the lost program and it comes in with all its new requirements. Today however, I've been getting this (reformatted for width): -- Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created or been moved out of Incoming. The following information may help to resolve the situation: The following packages have unmet dependencies: vlc : Depends: vlc-nox (= 1.1.3-1squeeze2) but it is not going to be installed Recommends: vlc-plugin-notify (= 1.1.3-1squeeze2) but it is not going to be installed Recommends: vlc-plugin-pulse (= 1.1.3-1squeeze2) but it is not going to be installed E: Broken packages -- It appears that vlc-nox depends on a package that is now unintstallable, causing me to lose my video player. I have two thoughts about this. One, ask the list it anyone else is having this problem, and if they can solve it. The other is to change my "testing" status to "unstable", install vlc and then change it back. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 20:36:31 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:36:31 -0500 Subject: vlc in Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <20110224203027.GA17563-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110224203027.GA17563@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20110224203631.GS347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 03:30:27PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > This morning I ran an apt-get dist-upgrade, and vlc (and its friends) > got uninstalled because of a borked dependency. This is fine, and > happens from time to time in Debian - usually you just reinstall the > lost program and it comes in with all its new requirements. > > Today however, I've been getting this (reformatted for width): > > -- > > Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have > requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable > distribution that some required packages have not yet been created > or been moved out of Incoming. > The following information may help to resolve the situation: > > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > vlc : Depends: vlc-nox (= 1.1.3-1squeeze2) but it is not going to be > installed > Recommends: vlc-plugin-notify (= 1.1.3-1squeeze2) but it is not > going to be installed > Recommends: vlc-plugin-pulse (= 1.1.3-1squeeze2) but it is not > going to be installed > E: Broken packages > > -- > > It appears that vlc-nox depends on a package that is now unintstallable, > causing me to lose my video player. > > I have two thoughts about this. One, ask the list it anyone else is > having this problem, and if they can solve it. The other is to change > my "testing" status to "unstable", install vlc and then change it back. > Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks. Testing is rather susseptible to this when transitions are in progress. It is one of the places unstable often works better. It will usually resolve itself within a couple of days whenever it happens. You can try doing: apt-get install vlc-nox, and see why it says that isn't going to be installed. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 20:56:30 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:56:30 -0500 Subject: vlc in Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <20110224203631.GS347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110224203027.GA17563@yam.witteman.ca> <20110224203631.GS347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110224205630.GA18040@yam.witteman.ca> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 03:36:31PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 03:30:27PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> This morning I ran an apt-get dist-upgrade, and vlc (and its friends) >> got uninstalled because of a borked dependency. This is fine, and >> happens from time to time in Debian - usually you just reinstall the >> lost program and it comes in with all its new requirements. >Testing is rather susseptible to this when transitions are in progress. >It is one of the places unstable often works better. > >It will usually resolve itself within a couple of days whenever it happens. > >You can try doing: >apt-get install vlc-nox, and see why it says that isn't going to be >installed. The following packages have unmet dependencies: vlc-nox : Depends: libavcodec52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not going to be installed or libavcodec-extra-52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not installable Depends: libavformat52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not going to be installed or libavformat-extra-52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not installable E: Broken packages Further down the rabbit hole is this: # apt-show-versions libavcodec52 libavcodec52/unknown uptodate 5:0.6.1+svn20101128-0.2 It is a funny little situation. Normally, as I wrote, these are easily unwedged, but perhaps not today. I'll bump to unstable if I want to watch anything tonight. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 21:31:28 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:31:28 -0500 Subject: vlc in Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <20110224205630.GA18040-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110224203027.GA17563@yam.witteman.ca> <20110224203631.GS347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110224205630.GA18040@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20110224213128.GT347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 03:56:30PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > vlc-nox : Depends: libavcodec52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not going to > be installed or > libavcodec-extra-52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not > installable > Depends: libavformat52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not going to > be installed or > libavformat-extra-52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not > installable > E: Broken packages > > Further down the rabbit hole is this: > > # apt-show-versions libavcodec52 > libavcodec52/unknown uptodate 5:0.6.1+svn20101128-0.2 > > It is a funny little situation. Normally, as I wrote, these are easily > unwedged, but perhaps not today. I'll bump to unstable if I want to > watch anything tonight. Yeah you might have to. apt-get install libavcodec52 libavformat52 libavformat-extra-52 doesn't work either? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 21:56:44 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:56:44 -0500 Subject: vlc in Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <20110224213128.GT347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110224203027.GA17563@yam.witteman.ca> <20110224203631.GS347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110224205630.GA18040@yam.witteman.ca> <20110224213128.GT347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110224215644.GA18399@yam.witteman.ca> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 04:31:28PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 03:56:30PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> The following packages have unmet dependencies: >> vlc-nox : Depends: libavcodec52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not going to >> be installed or >> libavcodec-extra-52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not >> installable >> Depends: libavformat52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not going to >> be installed or >> libavformat-extra-52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not >> installable >> E: Broken packages >> >> Further down the rabbit hole is this: >> >> # apt-show-versions libavcodec52 >> libavcodec52/unknown uptodate 5:0.6.1+svn20101128-0.2 >> >> It is a funny little situation. Normally, as I wrote, these are easily >> unwedged, but perhaps not today. I'll bump to unstable if I want to >> watch anything tonight. > >Yeah you might have to. > >apt-get install libavcodec52 libavformat52 libavformat-extra-52 doesn't >work either? Package libavformat-extra-52 is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source So, good question, but no. It looks like they are rearranging the package and its dependencies, but they aren't done yet. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu Feb 24 22:47:35 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:47:35 -0500 Subject: vlc in Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <20110224215644.GA18399-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110224203027.GA17563@yam.witteman.ca> <20110224203631.GS347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110224205630.GA18040@yam.witteman.ca> <20110224213128.GT347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110224215644.GA18399@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 4:56 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 04:31:28PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 03:56:30PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >>> The following packages have unmet dependencies: >>> ?vlc-nox : Depends: libavcodec52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not going to >>> ? ? ? ? ? ?be installed or >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? libavcodec-extra-52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? installable >>> ? ? ? ? ? ?Depends: libavformat52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not going to >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? be installed or >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? libavformat-extra-52 (>= 4:0.5.1-1) but it is not >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? installable >>> E: Broken packages >>> >>> Further down the rabbit hole is this: >>> >>> # apt-show-versions libavcodec52 >>> libavcodec52/unknown uptodate 5:0.6.1+svn20101128-0.2 >>> >>> It is a funny little situation. ?Normally, as I wrote, these are easily >>> unwedged, but perhaps not today. ?I'll bump to unstable if I want to >>> watch anything tonight. >> >>Yeah you might have to. >> >>apt-get install libavcodec52 libavformat52 libavformat-extra-52 doesn't >>work either? > > Package libavformat-extra-52 is not available, but is referred to by > another package. > This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or > is only available from another source > > So, good question, but no. ?It looks like they are rearranging the > package and its dependencies, but they aren't done yet. VLC is great, not disputing that, but while that's getting sorted (instead of doing a wholesale upgrade to unstable), what's so bad about MPlayer? I use mplayer-nogui, and I've never met a video it didn't like. Also it always gets the resolution correct, which is something I can't say for every other player :-\ Nice keyboard shortcuts too, subtitle support, audio/video sync is easy to play with. Only thing that bugs me is that it refuses to include a default icon...weird and irritating. For what it's worth, I also was having many problems with VLC on my Testing system, but since I am not as dedicated to it I didn't pursue a solution. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 14:16:13 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:16:13 -0500 Subject: Suspend-to-disk Message-ID: Is there a way to get GRUB to indicate that there's a suspended-to-disk session floating around in your swap partition? I recently booted my netbook to Tiny Core (very interesting, but a real PITA if you're familiar with any other Linux because its behaviour is so different), then rebooted to Debian ... and it came up with a suspended session I'd clearly forgotten. Two things come immediately to mind: Tiny Core didn't use any swap or I wouldn't have recovered that session, and I could use two separate swap partitions ... But I would rather GRUB kept me informed if that's possible. Any ideas? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 15:15:51 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 10:15:51 -0500 Subject: [OT] How your notebook can save millions of lives Message-ID: The Quake-Catcher Network is a collaborative initiative for developing the world's largest, low-cost strong-motion seismic network by utilizing sensors in and attached to internet-connected computers. With your help, the Quake-Catcher Network can provide better understanding of earthquakes, give early warning to schools, emergency response systems, and others. The Quake-Catcher Network also provides educational software designed to help teach about earthquakes and earthquake hazards. http://qcn.stanford.edu/ -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 16:42:03 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:42:03 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110222075527.GA9955-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 02:55:27AM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > 4) Setting up the ATI/Radeon video card to enable full hardware > acceleration requires downloading a firmware blob and entering the > directory into the kernel config. Hi Walter, Can you post more detail on this? When I install NVidia's binary driver, I simply do ./NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-260.19.36.run and I don't touch kernel config, at all. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 16:55:57 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:55:57 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110225164203.GA5657-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:42:03AM -0500, William Park wrote: > Can you post more detail on this? > > When I install NVidia's binary driver, I simply do > ./NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-260.19.36.run > and I don't touch kernel config, at all. Well in that case, your kernel source must have been somewhere /lib/modules//build/ links to. Of course any sensible distrution would have packages for that driver and install it in a controlled manner rather than overwriting random files in the system. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 17:18:55 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:18:55 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110225165557.GU347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:55:57AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:42:03AM -0500, William Park wrote: > > Can you post more detail on this? > > > > When I install NVidia's binary driver, I simply do > > ./NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-260.19.36.run > > and I don't touch kernel config, at all. > > Well in that case, your kernel source must have been somewhere > /lib/modules//build/ links to. Yes. I thought Walter meant 'config-2.6.38' file. One reasone I want to try AMD/ATI is that NVidia is on the way out. They're being squeezed by AMD and Intel from the bottom, so NVidia is concentrating on higher end. But, this is typical route that many other business went, before pricing themselves right out of the market. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 17:26:53 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:26:53 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110225171855.GA12811-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 12:18:55PM -0500, William Park wrote: > Yes. I thought Walter meant 'config-2.6.38' file. > > One reasone I want to try AMD/ATI is that NVidia is on the way out. > They're being squeezed by AMD and Intel from the bottom, so NVidia is > concentrating on higher end. But, this is typical route that many other > business went, before pricing themselves right out of the market. Nvidia is doing just fine. They are getting very involved in the mobile market with arm based devices. Also, unlike ATI/AMD, Nvidia writes reliable drivers. Nvidia is also doing quite well in the super computer market with their Tesla cards (which are of course based on the same chip design as their graphics cards). I am not at all worried about Nvidia. You will be seeing a lot of Nvidia Tegra devices this year. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 19:19:20 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 14:19:20 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110225172653.GV347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110225191920.GA2774@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 12:26:53PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 12:18:55PM -0500, William Park wrote: > > Yes. I thought Walter meant 'config-2.6.38' file. > > > > One reasone I want to try AMD/ATI is that NVidia is on the way out. > > They're being squeezed by AMD and Intel from the bottom, so NVidia > > is concentrating on higher end. But, this is typical route that > > many other business went, before pricing themselves right out of the > > market. > > Nvidia is doing just fine. They are getting very involved in the > mobile market with arm based devices. Also, unlike ATI/AMD, Nvidia > writes reliable drivers. Nvidia is also doing quite well in the super > computer market with their Tesla cards (which are of course based on > the same chip design as their graphics cards). I am not at all > worried about Nvidia. Those super computers... well, I think you can count the number of sales on your hand. > > You will be seeing a lot of Nvidia Tegra devices this year. But, none of those will be motherboard that I can play with. I'm not going to pay $700 for a device with 32MB ram. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 19:46:22 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 14:46:22 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110225191920.GA2774-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225191920.GA2774@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110225194622.GW347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 02:19:20PM -0500, William Park wrote: > Those super computers... well, I think you can count the number of sales > on your hand. There are a lot of machines out there with a couple of tesla cards. Even Dell sells them. They are a lot more common that you think. Nvidia has realized that competing with intel in the chipset business is a pain, given intel won't share that market, and when AMD bought ATI, nvidia rightfully lost interest in the AMD market (which from a users point of view is a shame because nvidia's chipsets were excellent for the AMD CPUs). In the mid to high end graphics market, nvidia is the leader, and there is good money to be made there (unlike the low end, where you make almost nothing and have to make it up in volumes). Being able to reuse the same designs as high end computing devices that sell for 10 times of what a high end graphics card costs is just a bonus. Being able to reuse some of the design features in mobile chips that can sell by the millions for cell phone and other mobile devices is going to be great for nvidia. AMD/ATI can fight intel over the embedded graphics/chipset/x86 market. Nvidia will happily take the high margin graphics business and go attack the mobile market instead, and take $300 million a year from intel in patent royalties while they are at it. > But, none of those will be motherboard that I can play with. I'm not > going to pay $700 for a device with 32MB ram. I don't think any of them have only 32MB ram. Try 1GB on your typical tegra device. The mobile market is huge. There is a reason intel is trying to get into it with the atom, although I don't think they are being that successful yet. Even microsoft is starting to figure it out, which is why they are saying Windows 8 will also ship in an ARM version. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 21:20:40 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:20:40 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110225172653.GV347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 12:18:55PM -0500, William Park wrote: >> Yes. ?I thought Walter meant 'config-2.6.38' file. >> >> One reasone I want to try AMD/ATI is that NVidia is on the way out. >> They're being squeezed by AMD and Intel from the bottom, so NVidia is >> concentrating on higher end. ?But, this is typical route that many other >> business went, before pricing themselves right out of the market. > > Nvidia is doing just fine. ?They are getting very involved in the mobile > market with arm based devices. ?Also, unlike ATI/AMD, Nvidia writes > reliable drivers. ?Nvidia is also doing quite well in the super computer > market with their Tesla cards (which are of course based on the same > chip design as their graphics cards). ?I am not at all worried about > Nvidia. > > You will be seeing a lot of Nvidia Tegra devices this year. > and drooling like crazy over them. I was _blown away_ by the demos at CES, what they could accomplish in a device the size of a smartphone. This was definitely NVidia's year. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 21:34:09 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:34:09 -0500 Subject: Awesome Debian Tips Message-ID: http://raphaelhertzog.com/ -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 22:44:22 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:44:22 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110225224422.GX347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 04:20:40PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > and drooling like crazy over them. I was _blown away_ by the demos at > CES, what they could accomplish in a device the size of a smartphone. > > This was definitely NVidia's year. The new ones being dual or even quad core ARM Cortex chips with rather impressive 3D graphics support will be impressive. Vastly more so than intel's pathetic video on their atom systems. Of course anyone that wants a good atom buys one with an nvidia ion chipset. Gee, seems nvidia hasn't completely left the x86 chipset business after all, they are just focusing on where there is demand for efficient high performance graphics and especially video playback support. Anyone that thinks what happens in the PC market is particularly relevant is just not aware of the reality. When Apple went from PowerPc to intel people went "It's the end of the powerPC". It didn't even make a blip. Apple was completely irrelevant to the PowerPC market. The x86 is completely irrelevant to the electronics market as a whole. There are more ARM devices sold in a year than there have been x86 machines ever made. There were 6.1 billion ARM chips sold in 2010. 95% of smart phones (and a fair number of the not smart phones) are ARM based. If nvidia could manage to grab 10% of the ARM market for cell phones and such especially the high end models that do lots of multimedia stuff, they are going to be making some decent money. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 22:55:38 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:55:38 -0500 Subject: USB mouse -> 50% CPU load ? Message-ID: <20110225225538.GA5193@node1.opengeometry.net> I usually use "top" or "w" for system load, but was curious to try out "System Monitor" that comes with KDE-4.4.3. Simply moving my USB mouse uses 50% of my dual-core 3.2GHz cpu. I just can't believe this. Anyone experienced similar thing? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 23:09:21 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:09:21 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110225224422.GX347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225224422.GX347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > If nvidia could manage to grab 10% of the ARM market for cell phones and > such especially the high end models that do lots of multimedia stuff, > they are going to be making some decent money. And there's a server-relevant side to this, as well. Amazon's EC2 service is renting this out as service. http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/ Look for: "Cluster GPU Quadruple Extra Large Instance" What they notably include, GPU-wise, is: 2 x NVIDIA Tesla ?Fermi? M2050 GPUs They characterize this as being for "high performance rendering needs," but there are likely other use cases possible, and if this sort of thing takes off, it certainly offers NVIDIA an expanded market in server deployments where they generally have had *no* real place thus far. I'll note that there's one product relevant at Canada Computers: This motherboard can accept up to 4 Tesla GPUs. (Mind you, it's not evident you can buy anything from Canada Computers to *populate* the slots...) Also interesting, and *much* pricier, is this 448-core add on board: At about $4000, this won't likely go on your desktop :-). But this would be *mighty* interesting to get sold into server space... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 23:19:19 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:19:19 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110225224422.GX347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225224422.GX347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 04:20:40PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: >> and drooling like crazy over them. I was _blown away_ by the demos at >> CES, what they could accomplish in a device the size of a smartphone. >> >> This was definitely NVidia's year. > > The new ones being dual or even quad core ARM Cortex chips with rather > impressive 3D graphics support will be impressive. ?Vastly more so than > intel's pathetic video on their atom systems. ?Of course anyone that > wants a good atom buys one with an nvidia ion chipset. ?Gee, seems nvidia > hasn't completely left the x86 chipset business after all, they are just > focusing on where there is demand for efficient high performance graphics > and especially video playback support. > > Anyone that thinks what happens in the PC market is particularly relevant > is just not aware of the reality. Yes, I read that smartphones outsold all PC's combined last year. By a huge margin, I think. I know quite a few younger people who don't own a PC, which is of course a huge change from a few years ago. At most they have a notebook, but some of them might only have a smartphone, and that's their entire experience of computing, it's all they need. Literally everyone I see with a mobile has a smartphone, either an iPhone or an Android or Blackberry. I rarely see people with 'primitives' anymore. I have needed a new PC for a few years now, but I keep spending my money on other devices, PS3, iPods, NAS, and other specialized units. >?When Apple went from PowerPc to intel > people went "It's the end of the powerPC". ?It didn't even make a blip. > Apple was completely irrelevant to the PowerPC market. ?The x86 is > completely irrelevant to the electronics market as a whole. ?There are > more ARM devices sold in a year than there have been x86 machines > ever made. Jeez. >?There were 6.1 billion ARM chips sold in 2010. ?95% of smart > phones (and a fair number of the not smart phones) are ARM based. > > If nvidia could manage to grab 10% of the ARM market for cell phones and > such especially the high end models that do lots of multimedia stuff, > they are going to be making some decent money. > People are going to buy those Tegra-based things like they're the secret to eternal youth, no doubt. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Feb 25 23:40:58 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:40:58 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110225224422.GX347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225224422.GX347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110225234058.GA5233@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 05:44:22PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 04:20:40PM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > > and drooling like crazy over them. I was _blown away_ by the demos at > > CES, what they could accomplish in a device the size of a smartphone. > > > > This was definitely NVidia's year. > > The new ones being dual or even quad core ARM Cortex chips with rather > impressive 3D graphics support will be impressive. Vastly more so than > intel's pathetic video on their atom systems. Of course anyone that > wants a good atom buys one with an nvidia ion chipset. Gee, seems nvidia > hasn't completely left the x86 chipset business after all, they are just > focusing on where there is demand for efficient high performance graphics > and especially video playback support. > > Anyone that thinks what happens in the PC market is particularly relevant > is just not aware of the reality. When Apple went from PowerPc to intel > people went "It's the end of the powerPC". It didn't even make a blip. > Apple was completely irrelevant to the PowerPC market. The x86 is > completely irrelevant to the electronics market as a whole. There are > more ARM devices sold in a year than there have been x86 machines > ever made. There were 6.1 billion ARM chips sold in 2010. 95% of smart > phones (and a fair number of the not smart phones) are ARM based. > > If nvidia could manage to grab 10% of the ARM market for cell phones and > such especially the high end models that do lots of multimedia stuff, > they are going to be making some decent money. Consider this (something I've heard): What if netbooks come with cell phone builtin? Degree of integration with host computer will affect useability, but I'm sure it will be ironed out pretty fast. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 00:52:55 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 19:52:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225224422.GX347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | Also interesting, and *much* pricier, is this 448-core add on board: | | | At about $4000, this won't likely go on your desktop :-). But this | would be *mighty* interesting to get sold into server space... That's the .com link. The .ca link lists it as $4,999.00. It is two slots wide so you cannot fit too many in your box. Things I'd want to know before making these available on a cloud platform: - is there a high-bandwidth way for a process to talk to the such a card without compromising kernel or other process security? This may be possible with the latest IOMMU improvements. - is there a way to partition a card so that two processes could use different parts without endangering each other? - is there a way to virtualize the card without serious performance costs? I'm not even sure whether the kernel is safe from a process that has raw access to a "video card". Perhaps recent versions of IOMMUs make it safe. I don't know if there is a high-bandwidth non-raw way for a process to talk to a video card. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 01:07:20 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 20:07:20 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225224422.GX347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110226010720.GA2283@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 06:09:21PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: >And there's a server-relevant side to this, as well. > >Amazon's EC2 service is renting this out as service. >http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/ > >Look for: > "Cluster GPU Quadruple Extra Large Instance" > >What they notably include, GPU-wise, is: > 2 x NVIDIA Tesla ?Fermi? M2050 GPUs > >They characterize this as being for "high performance rendering >needs," but there are likely other use cases possible, and if this >sort of thing takes off, it certainly offers NVIDIA an expanded market >in server deployments where they generally have had *no* real place >thus far. I read this[1] post a few months ago that mentioned using GPUs for a sorting algorithm, achieving sorting rates of 482 million fixed-length key-value pairs per second. Being able to offload hash-based sorts of this kind of magnitude will become more and more useful in big-data situations or highly parallel processing tasks. It's not a problem I've got today, but it might be one I have tomorrow. [1] http://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2010/12/16/GPGPUSorting.aspx -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 01:16:03 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 20:16:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110225224422.GX347-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225224422.GX347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | > This was definitely NVidia's year. | The new ones being dual or even quad core ARM Cortex chips with rather | impressive 3D graphics support will be impressive. Vastly more so than | intel's pathetic video on their atom systems. I know very little about that world. Intel's Poulsbo chip for the Atom (available for years) does have 3d acceleration (I think). We Linux folks hate it because there is no decent open source driver. That's because Intel licensed the PowerVR SGX 535 graphics core and didn't get the right to disclose specs of it. I understand that there are a number of graphics cores used in the non-PC space, that most or all of them are closed, and we rarely hear about them. ATI was in this space but sold off that part of their business. | Of course anyone that | wants a good atom buys one with an nvidia ion chipset. Only a small percentage of Atoms are sold for systems with IONs (but I have some). I blame Intel. In the ION's space, ATI's new Fusion stuff looks interesting. See this netbook, for example (it has been cheaper): | If nvidia could manage to grab 10% of the ARM market for cell phones and | such especially the high end models that do lots of multimedia stuff, | they are going to be making some decent money. I've never understood the making money side of this stuff. nVidia and ATI have rarely made much money if I remember correctly. Capturing geek mindshare certainly isn't strongly related to making money. (Just a guess: Apple was probably a customer that PowerPC vendors should have fired. I bet the cost money to the vendors.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 04:17:23 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 23:17:23 -0500 Subject: Byron Sonne.... Message-ID: A court case that I have been following to some degree is the one against Byron Sonne, an IT security expert who was arrested before the G20 meeting last year. In late January I spent about a half hour watching a small part of his preliminary hearing (where the Crown (government) Prosecutor has to prove to a judge that they have enough evidence that when they do reach trial they will not be laughed out). The preliminary hearing is over and here is what happened: http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/945221--most-charges-dropped-against-g20-accused-in-jail-since-last-june Bottom line, most of the charges against Byron Sonne have been dropped. Based on what little I saw the only thing that surprises me is that any of the charges are still in place. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 04:35:41 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 23:35:41 -0500 Subject: Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D68831D.5000501@alteeve.com> On 02/25/2011 11:17 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > A court case that I have been following to some degree is the one > against Byron Sonne, an IT security expert who was arrested before the > G20 meeting last year. In late January I spent about a half hour > watching a small part of his preliminary hearing (where the Crown > (government) Prosecutor has to prove to a judge that they have enough > evidence that when they do reach trial they will not be laughed out). > The preliminary hearing is over and here is what happened: > > http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/945221--most-charges-dropped-against-g20-accused-in-jail-since-last-june > > Bottom line, most of the charges against Byron Sonne have been > dropped. Based on what little I saw the only thing that surprises me > is that any of the charges are still in place. > > > Colin McGregor Hi Colin, Having been to all of the hearings, I am somewhat limited in what I can legally say in public. With that said; The preliminary inquiry stage has a very low threshold for what can be entered in as evidence. Things like the admissibility of evidence is not considered. The prelim judge does not have jurisdiction to consider civil rights violations. The crown's presentation of the evidence must be accepted and the defence's can't be considered. With this, the prelim judge must decide if it is *possible* that a conviction could be won. Despite having all this against Byron, he had all but one of the original charges tossed out. They did manage to add a new, amorphous charge called "counseling the commission of a crime not committed", which we fully expect to fail along with the explosives charge. Anyone interested in the private right to hack, to make, to investigate, to reverse engineer or do security research should come to the hearings. We, as private citizens, can make a difference by simply being engaged. Come to the court when the trial starts. Listen for yourself what can get you thrown in jail for over eight months (and counting). Listen for yourself just how little the government needs to destroy your life. Be engaged. Protect the right to be curious. More coverage from today: - http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/02/25/majority-of-g20-charges-against-security-consultant-byron-sonne-dropped/ - http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2011/02/25/17414541.html -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 04:48:33 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 23:48:33 -0500 Subject: Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: <4D68831D.5000501-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D68831D.5000501@alteeve.com> Message-ID: If all the charges are dropped, what options does he have to recover from this? Meaning; is there any process he can go through to hold those accountable for this abuse of process? On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 02/25/2011 11:17 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > > A court case that I have been following to some degree is the one > > against Byron Sonne, an IT security expert who was arrested before the > > G20 meeting last year. In late January I spent about a half hour > > watching a small part of his preliminary hearing (where the Crown > > (government) Prosecutor has to prove to a judge that they have enough > > evidence that when they do reach trial they will not be laughed out). > > The preliminary hearing is over and here is what happened: > > > > > http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/945221--most-charges-dropped-against-g20-accused-in-jail-since-last-june > > > > Bottom line, most of the charges against Byron Sonne have been > > dropped. Based on what little I saw the only thing that surprises me > > is that any of the charges are still in place. > > > > > > Colin McGregor > > Hi Colin, > > Having been to all of the hearings, I am somewhat limited in what I > can legally say in public. With that said; > > The preliminary inquiry stage has a very low threshold for what can be > entered in as evidence. Things like the admissibility of evidence is not > considered. The prelim judge does not have jurisdiction to consider > civil rights violations. The crown's presentation of the evidence must > be accepted and the defence's can't be considered. With this, the prelim > judge must decide if it is *possible* that a conviction could be won. > > Despite having all this against Byron, he had all but one of the > original charges tossed out. They did manage to add a new, amorphous > charge called "counseling the commission of a crime not committed", > which we fully expect to fail along with the explosives charge. > > Anyone interested in the private right to hack, to make, to > investigate, to reverse engineer or do security research should come to > the hearings. We, as private citizens, can make a difference by simply > being engaged. Come to the court when the trial starts. Listen for > yourself what can get you thrown in jail for over eight months (and > counting). Listen for yourself just how little the government needs to > destroy your life. > > Be engaged. Protect the right to be curious. > > More coverage from today: > > - > > http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/02/25/majority-of-g20-charges-against-security-consultant-byron-sonne-dropped/ > - > > http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2011/02/25/17414541.html > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 04:59:26 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 23:59:26 -0500 Subject: Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: References: <4D68831D.5000501@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4D6888AE.8070904@alteeve.com> On 02/25/2011 11:48 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > If all the charges are dropped, what options does he have to recover > from this? > > Meaning; is there any process he can go through to hold those > accountable for this abuse of process? As I understand it, simply being charged and then later found innocent is not enough to trigger compensation. Civil rights violations, abuse of the system and so forth is. It would not surprise me if Byron explores his options later, but for now, everyone's attention is focused on the upcoming trial. Once his name is clear and the truth is out, then other issues can be considered. It will be entirely up to Byron himself. I can say though that I sure hope he does and that he wins. He has lost everything and his family have been forced to dig deep into their life savings. It's just disgusting what some in our government can do. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 05:07:42 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 00:07:42 -0500 Subject: Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: <4D6888AE.8070904-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D68831D.5000501@alteeve.com> <4D6888AE.8070904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Its so ironic that people who come to this country to escape persecution and tyranny, would find it here. On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:59 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 02/25/2011 11:48 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > If all the charges are dropped, what options does he have to recover > > from this? > > > > Meaning; is there any process he can go through to hold those > > accountable for this abuse of process? > > As I understand it, simply being charged and then later found innocent > is not enough to trigger compensation. Civil rights violations, abuse of > the system and so forth is. It would not surprise me if Byron explores > his options later, but for now, everyone's attention is focused on the > upcoming trial. > > Once his name is clear and the truth is out, then other issues can be > considered. It will be entirely up to Byron himself. I can say though > that I sure hope he does and that he wins. He has lost everything and > his family have been forced to dig deep into their life savings. It's > just disgusting what some in our government can do. > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 05:19:31 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 00:19:31 -0500 Subject: Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: References: <4D68831D.5000501@alteeve.com> <4D6888AE.8070904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4D688D63.5010003@alteeve.com> On 02/26/2011 12:07 AM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Its so ironic that people who come to this country to escape persecution > and tyranny, would find it here. Canada is still a very, very good country. But cracks are forming, and we must close them as soon and as aggressively as we can. This is what Byron was trying to do. The thing is, as geeks, we live on the periphery of society. This has always been true. There is something of a fear in some people that they need to rely on people like us to make their daily high tech lives work. All the while, most of us just want to be left alone so that we can code, tinker and study. They think what they might do if they had the power they perceive in us (rightly or wrongly), and that breeds fear. What we have going for us here is that people are standing up and making sure that those who would abuse their power are held to account. It's *nothing* like what is happening in the Arab Awakening, but it's our country and it's our fight. Be engaged and Canada will remain the haven it has traditionally been. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 12:47:01 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 07:47:01 -0500 Subject: Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In the brief amount i followed this when it happened, is it not simply the case that he baited law-enforcement, took resources away from making sure Canadians were secure, and thus his actions put us all in danger, and he needs a much deserved stay at the big house?(or some psychological help?) I know some people think what he did was obviously a joke, but the law can't make that assumption, as if he actually did in the end do (aid) in something, heads would roll and the people would get very upset. I hope he gets a few months a the health spa (we call the Canadian prison/jail system) (and time already served counted), and he hopefully will realize what he did was just so stupid. He is just lucky in the end there wasn't a "action" at the G20, and his mis-steering of important resources didn't result in getting innocent people getting killed, but, it could have been the case, and I am sure he wouldn't be too proud of that. Now I understand how he was treated after the fact, may be the main concern here (his rights), but personally what he did was so stupid, I am glad he got put through the ringer. If we had many people like him in this country, then we would be totally screwed, as our security people wouldn't be able to do any sort of job. Having said all this, I know little about the case, just the high level stuff spoken on here and in the news (on tv) at the time. I would hope that if his actions were misunderstood, and there was "mistakes" in the system, did he not get a warning, which he ignored? I guess my main concern is, if he really did detour resources, and in general the authorities had to take with even 1% possibility, that he may in fact have been plotting (or aiding in something), seems to me, it all went down as it should have, and the system handled it correctly and we can take great pride in the system. I am sure if there is more to the story, facts i need to know that would show me in fact in no way did he do anything to taught/deceive/detour law-enforcement, I am guessing people will be posting it here. But my main issue is, if he detoured resources (even if morally wrong, not directly legally wrong), he should pay, as if everyone did that, we would be SOL as a country. tl On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > A court case that I have been following to some degree is the one > against Byron Sonne, an IT security expert who was arrested before the > G20 meeting last year. In late January I spent about a half hour > watching a small part of his preliminary hearing (where the Crown > (government) Prosecutor has to prove to a judge that they have enough > evidence that when they do reach trial they will not be laughed out). > The preliminary hearing is over and here is what happened: > > http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/945221--most-charges-dropped-against-g20-accused-in-jail-since-last-june > > Bottom line, most of the charges against Byron Sonne have been > dropped. Based on what little I saw the only thing that surprises me > is that any of the charges are still in place. > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 17:38:32 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 12:38:32 -0500 Subject: [OT] Discussing Byron Sonne's case In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D693A98.4090505@alteeve.com> In light of the recent thread, I wanted to put an offer out there for TLUG members. The publication ban allows for face to face discussion on the case. I've traveled as far as Montreal to talk about this case at hacker groups. I would like to offer the same to TLUG members now. Before you come though, be aware of the responsibility of what legal obligations you will have under the Canadian law (as I understand it being a lay-person, in other words, IANAL). - Violating a publication ban is a reverse-onus crime. That means that, should you be accused of it, you need to prove your innocence. - The offense is "broadcasting" protected information. In turn, we've defined that as anything other that being within the hearing range of a person's voice. No smoke signals or above. No private IRC or IM discussions, etc. - The publication ban was requested by the defence and it is allowed on simple request because of what can be said by the crown before trial. There is essentially no barrier to what can be accused at the bail stage, and the bar only moves up a bit at the prelim. The law recognizes this and offers the publication ban to protect the accused from accusations that are proven false before trial. This has been extremely important in this case. All of this protects the tainting of a jury pool and protects the accused person's name and reputation. To have this discussion, it can not be open to the public (that would be broadcasting). I would suggest that membership in this list (before today) would be a suitable requirement. If there is interest, let me know. :) -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 20:16:15 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:16:15 -0500 Subject: [OT] Re:Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: References: <4D69383F.8020706@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4D695F8F.5070900@alteeve.com> On 02/26/2011 02:05 PM, ted leslie wrote: > Yes your last statement (and it sounds like there will be some interesting stuff > to read about when the ban is lifted .. and there is a ban why?) > i support, but, its our "under funded system" > that unfortunately is at times a huge part of why > legal issues can drag out for way to long (and appear unjust, lazy and > mistake ridden), > would it have helped if Byron's case were already fully tried months ago? > obviously, and we seem to only have the tax paying voter to > blame for that. I would love to pay more taxes, much more > taxes to get a health system that is better then our > third world one we have now, and a legal system that > isn't so backed up, but doesn't seem to be a party i can > vote for that wants to tax me more (and my fellow Canadians) to fix this stuff. > (and i am not dishing any of the parties in particular.. probably its just > a knock on Canadians in general as a group that would rather have > broken stuff, but lower taxes. Of course better management of > what we do pay, would also be nice, on all levels of government). > > tl As for why there is a ban, please see: http://freebyron.org/index.php/Main_Page#Why_is_There_a_Publication_Ban.3F In the case of the G20, there was ~$900 million spent on security. That is orders of magnitude more than previous G8/G20 meetings, so the "underfunded" argument simply doesn't apply here. In fact, that overspending is part of the reason people were angry. As for the speed of trial, yes, we'd all have loved for the trial to have been completed months ago. That just isn't realistic though... We were warned to expect 18~24 months at least minimum for this case to go to trial. As it stands, things have been moving very fast by normal standards. Further complicating things is that the crown is fighting tooth and nail in this case. Every stage of the process has been record setting in it's length. As for the tax comments... well, that's a whole other conversation that is even more off-topic than this one. :) Cheers -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 19:14:43 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 14:14:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: really cheap and inexpensive system, today only Message-ID: http://www.pcvonline.com/ProductDetails.aspx?prodID=7763 $100 for a Sempron desktop. New, minimal everything, no OS (doesn't bother us!). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 20:36:08 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:36:08 -0500 Subject: Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Can you even tell me what it was he did that was wrong? You don't seem to mention anything specifically, but you claim that he deserved his punishment. Amazing, because even the courts haven't come to a decision yet, but you have. What you've written is shockingly ignorant on several levels, and to anyone who might be a friend of Byron's, unforgivably insensitive. On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 7:47 AM, ted leslie wrote: > In the brief amount i followed this when it happened, > is it not simply the case that he baited law-enforcement, > took resources away from making sure Canadians were secure, > and thus his actions put us all in danger, and he needs a much > deserved stay at the big house?(or some psychological help?) > ?I know some people think > what he did was obviously a joke, but the law can't make > that assumption, as if he actually did in the end > do (aid) in something, heads would roll and the people > would get very upset. I hope he gets a few months > a the health spa (we call the Canadian prison/jail system) > (and time already served counted), and he hopefully > will realize what he did was just so stupid. > He is just lucky in the end there wasn't a "action" at the > G20, and his mis-steering of important resources didn't result > in getting innocent people getting killed, but, it could > have been the case, and I am sure he wouldn't be > too proud of that. Now I understand how he was treated > after the fact, may be the main concern here (his rights), > but personally what he did was so stupid, I am glad he > got put through the ringer. If we had many people like him > in this country, then we would be totally screwed, as our > security people wouldn't be able to do any sort of job. > > Having said all this, I know little about the case, just the high > level stuff spoken on here and in the news (on tv) at the time. > I would hope that if his actions were misunderstood, > and there was "mistakes" in the system, ?did he not > get a warning, which he ignored? > > I guess my main concern is, if he really did > detour resources, and in general the authorities > had to take with even 1% possibility, that he may > in fact have been plotting (or aiding in something), > seems to me, it all went down as it should have, > and the system handled it correctly and we can > take great pride in the system. > > I am sure if there is more to the story, facts i need to know > that would show me in fact in no way did he do anything to > taught/deceive/detour law-enforcement, I am guessing > people will be posting it here. ?But my main issue is, if > he detoured resources (even if morally ?wrong, not directly legally > wrong), he should pay, > as if everyone did that, we ?would be SOL as a country. > > tl > > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> A court case that I have been following to some degree is the one >> against Byron Sonne, an IT security expert who was arrested before the >> G20 meeting last year. In late January I spent about a half hour >> watching a small part of his preliminary hearing (where the Crown >> (government) Prosecutor has to prove to a judge that they have enough >> evidence that when they do reach trial they will not be laughed out). >> The preliminary hearing is over and here is what happened: >> >> http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/945221--most-charges-dropped-against-g20-accused-in-jail-since-last-june >> >> Bottom line, most of the charges against Byron Sonne have been >> dropped. Based on what little I saw the only thing that surprises me >> is that any of the charges are still in place. >> >> >> Colin McGregor >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 20:31:26 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:31:26 -0500 Subject: Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: References: <4D68831D.5000501@alteeve.com> Message-ID: LOL! No. Not the slightest chance. The only hope that any of these thugs will ever face the consequences of their criminal behaviour is for the public to, as Digimer suggested, become more involved. The legal system is for the protection of private wealth and privilege, not human rights. For that you need to go out in the streets. On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:48 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > If all the charges are dropped,?what options does he have to recover from > this? > > Meaning; is there any process he can go through to hold those accountable > for this abuse of process? > > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Digimer wrote: >> >> On 02/25/2011 11:17 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> > A court case that I have been following to some degree is the one >> > against Byron Sonne, an IT security expert who was arrested before the >> > G20 meeting last year. In late January I spent about a half hour >> > watching a small part of his preliminary hearing (where the Crown >> > (government) Prosecutor has to prove to a judge that they have enough >> > evidence that when they do reach trial they will not be laughed out). >> > The preliminary hearing is over and here is what happened: >> > >> > >> > http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/945221--most-charges-dropped-against-g20-accused-in-jail-since-last-june >> > >> > Bottom line, most of the charges against Byron Sonne have been >> > dropped. Based on what little I saw the only thing that surprises me >> > is that any of the charges are still in place. >> > >> > >> > Colin McGregor >> >> Hi Colin, >> >> ?Having been to all of the hearings, I am somewhat limited in what I >> can legally say in public. With that said; >> >> ?The preliminary inquiry stage has a very low threshold for what can be >> entered in as evidence. Things like the admissibility of evidence is not >> considered. The prelim judge does not have jurisdiction to consider >> civil rights violations. The crown's presentation of the evidence must >> be accepted and the defence's can't be considered. With this, the prelim >> judge must decide if it is *possible* that a conviction could be won. >> >> ?Despite having all this against Byron, he had all but one of the >> original charges tossed out. They did manage to add a new, amorphous >> charge called "counseling the commission of a crime not committed", >> which we fully expect to fail along with the explosives charge. >> >> ?Anyone interested in the private right to hack, to make, to >> investigate, to reverse engineer or do security research should come to >> the hearings. We, as private citizens, can make a difference by simply >> being engaged. Come to the court when the trial starts. Listen for >> yourself what can get you thrown in jail for over eight months (and >> counting). Listen for yourself just how little the government needs to >> destroy your life. >> >> ?Be engaged. Protect the right to be curious. >> >> More coverage from today: >> >> - >> >> http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/02/25/majority-of-g20-charges-against-security-consultant-byron-sonne-dropped/ >> - >> >> http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2011/02/25/17414541.html >> >> -- >> Digimer >> E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org >> AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com >> Node Assassin: ?http://nodeassassin.org >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 20:27:24 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:27:24 -0500 Subject: [OT] Re:Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: <4D695F8F.5070900-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D69383F.8020706@alteeve.com> <4D695F8F.5070900@alteeve.com> Message-ID: spending on the summit and spending on canada's legal system are as related as a piece of chicken and a mars rock. however the spending for the summit was excessive, especially given I don't personally think we should have them (these high profile summit events) in the first place, its just fluff. If the case will go 24 months and he has to veg in the can for that whole time, then that is pretty F'd up, as you can get 24 months for a fully served murder in this country (say as a minor). Strap a transponder on his ankle and have him return home if its going to take so long. tl On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 02/26/2011 02:05 PM, ted leslie wrote: >> Yes your last statement (and it sounds like there will be some interesting stuff >> to read about when the ban is lifted .. and there is a ban why?) >> i support, but, its our "under funded system" >> that unfortunately is at times a huge part of why >> legal issues can drag out for way to long (and appear unjust, lazy and >> mistake ridden), >> would it have helped if Byron's case were already fully tried ?months ago? >> obviously, and we seem to only have the tax paying voter to >> blame for that. I would love to pay more taxes, much more >> taxes to get a health system that is better then our >> third world one we have now, and a legal system that >> isn't so backed up, but doesn't ?seem to be a party i can >> vote for that wants to tax me more (and my fellow Canadians) to fix this stuff. >> (and i am not dishing any of the parties in particular.. probably its just >> a knock on Canadians in general as a group that would rather have >> broken stuff, but lower taxes. Of course better management of >> what we do pay, would also be nice, on all levels of government). >> >> tl > > As for why there is a ban, please see: > http://freebyron.org/index.php/Main_Page#Why_is_There_a_Publication_Ban.3F > > In the case of the G20, there was ~$900 million spent on security. That > is orders of magnitude more than previous G8/G20 meetings, so the > "underfunded" argument simply doesn't apply here. In fact, that > overspending is part of the reason people were angry. > > As for the speed of trial, yes, we'd all have loved for the trial to > have been completed months ago. That just isn't realistic though... We > were warned to expect 18~24 months at least minimum for this case to go > to trial. As it stands, things have been moving very fast by normal > standards. Further complicating things is that the crown is fighting > tooth and nail in this case. Every stage of the process has been record > setting in it's length. > > As for the tax comments... well, that's a whole other conversation that > is even more off-topic than this one. :) > > Cheers > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: ?http://nodeassassin.org > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 17:28:31 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 12:28:31 -0500 Subject: [OT] Re:Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D69383F.8020706@alteeve.com> On 02/26/2011 07:47 AM, ted leslie wrote: > In the brief amount i followed this when it happened, > is it not simply the case that he baited law-enforcement, > took resources away from making sure Canadians were secure, > and thus his actions put us all in danger, and he needs a much > deserved stay at the big house?(or some psychological help?) > I know some people think > what he did was obviously a joke, but the law can't make > that assumption, as if he actually did in the end > do (aid) in something, heads would roll and the people > would get very upset. I hope he gets a few months > a the health spa (we call the Canadian prison/jail system) > (and time already served counted), and he hopefully > will realize what he did was just so stupid. > He is just lucky in the end there wasn't a "action" at the > G20, and his mis-steering of important resources didn't result > in getting innocent people getting killed, but, it could > have been the case, and I am sure he wouldn't be > too proud of that. Now I understand how he was treated > after the fact, may be the main concern here (his rights), > but personally what he did was so stupid, I am glad he > got put through the ringer. If we had many people like him > in this country, then we would be totally screwed, as our > security people wouldn't be able to do any sort of job. > > Having said all this, I know little about the case, just the high > level stuff spoken on here and in the news (on tv) at the time. > I would hope that if his actions were misunderstood, > and there was "mistakes" in the system, did he not > get a warning, which he ignored? > > I guess my main concern is, if he really did > detour resources, and in general the authorities > had to take with even 1% possibility, that he may > in fact have been plotting (or aiding in something), > seems to me, it all went down as it should have, > and the system handled it correctly and we can > take great pride in the system. > > I am sure if there is more to the story, facts i need to know > that would show me in fact in no way did he do anything to > taught/deceive/detour law-enforcement, I am guessing > people will be posting it here. But my main issue is, if > he detoured resources (even if morally wrong, not directly legally > wrong), he should pay, > as if everyone did that, we would be SOL as a country. > > tl It is impossible for me to answer anything you've said here without violating the publication ban. I will say that you are not alone in feeling the way you do, and I will even go so far as to say that, as the story has been told, I couldn't fault you for feeling that way. That said, the facts of this case are not public. What led to Byron getting arrested certainly isn't out there. The reason he was treated so harshly and even what "harshly" is in this case is all still under the pub ban. So let me speak in generalities rather that this case specifically. First and foremost, everyone in this country is innocent until proven guilty. The statements you have made depend entirely on the assumption that he is, in fact, guilty. Next, in a democracy, there is the right to decent. Arguably, ever protester diverted resources away from security of the fence. I know I am being extreme with this, but would you say that every one of the 1,100 protester deserved be kettled, arrested and held? 900 of which were never charged in the end. Most of the remaining have had their charges thrown out. A collective period in time where the police actions were described by the Ontario Ombudsman as the worst violation of civil liberties in Canadian history? The reason I am arguing this point is because "Security", "National Security" and "Safety" are very common crutches of wrong-doing nations. An extreme, blank-and-white example is how Gaddafi is cracking down violently on the Libyan people justifying it with "public safety". I doubt you or any other rational person would disagree at the terrible atrocities being committed there and that "national security" is hand-waving his desire to stay in power. So what then of the middle ground? How does a person, who sees what they perceive to be a corrupt or broken system, make their voices heard? Now what if that person has hobbies well outside the norm, like amateur science? How does a person make a political statement on what he or she sees as an over-bearing security system that has crossed a line? Back to Byron's case; I assure you, there is much, much more to this story. The details will not come out until the publication ban has been lifted, which will be when the trial begins (or ends, depending). A final statement on your last comment; A "free" country is not, inherently, a safe country. A free country is one where individuals are free from oppression by the government. It means being free from illegal detention, illegal search and seizure. To this end, our legal system is supposed to be one where it is better to let a guilty person go free than an innocent person be sent to jail. By that fact, every time a guilty person goes free, the country is less safe. It is a trade-off we decided to make when we, as a country, decided that "Freedom" was more important than "Safety". -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 27 03:58:22 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:58:22 -0500 Subject: Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i stated in my email i didn't have the facts, i stated what i heard, it took up a decent amount for press, he (somehow) attracted attention as someone who "could" have caused a problem at the summit http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/02/25/majority-of-g20-charges-against-security-consultant-byron-sonne-dropped/ irregardless of whether he did it or not, my point was (at a minimum), was he warned and did he continue, morally (if he was warned, and did continue), he was morally wrong in detouring resources that could have saved lives if there was an issue. He obviously did focus a lot of attention on himself, maybe in the end, this is exactly what he wanted to happen (a big deal made of it) because he was frustrated with the system and couldn't think of any other way. I will reserve my judgment until the facts come out. but, someone deserves to serve some time, him, or a police chief, whoever - chuck someone in prison. someone screwed up and endangered Canadians lives, and needs to pay. If terrorists antraxed union station, and it wasn't caught because of a "wild goose chase", now that would just be dam peachy wouldn't it? There are major idiots in the legal system and in government but I like to think there are some check and balances that mean this couldn't have gotten this far without some teeth - yeah I know "wishful thinking". If he was set up, someone framed him? then hey, he will get 20 million for his time spent, not so bad i suppose, i'd take 20M for 8-24 in a health spa, and he will have promoted his cause too (whatever it is). But I hope he gets fair due process, I hope (if he is innocent), he gets his 20M (to which i will pay my 4$ of it), and I hope whoever in the system screwed up, get prison time (to which i will be paying another .40$ for their incarceration each year). Fortunately my last paragraph clears me of any "shockingly ignorant on several levels" and being "unforgivably insensitive" tl On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Can you even tell me what it was he did that was wrong? You don't seem > to mention anything specifically, but you claim that he deserved his > punishment. Amazing, because even the courts haven't come to a > decision yet, but you have. > > What you've written is shockingly ignorant on several levels, and to > anyone who might be a friend of Byron's, unforgivably insensitive. > > On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 7:47 AM, ted leslie wrote: >> In the brief amount i followed this when it happened, >> is it not simply the case that he baited law-enforcement, >> took resources away from making sure Canadians were secure, >> and thus his actions put us all in danger, and he needs a much >> deserved stay at the big house?(or some psychological help?) >> ?I know some people think >> what he did was obviously a joke, but the law can't make >> that assumption, as if he actually did in the end >> do (aid) in something, heads would roll and the people >> would get very upset. I hope he gets a few months >> a the health spa (we call the Canadian prison/jail system) >> (and time already served counted), and he hopefully >> will realize what he did was just so stupid. >> He is just lucky in the end there wasn't a "action" at the >> G20, and his mis-steering of important resources didn't result >> in getting innocent people getting killed, but, it could >> have been the case, and I am sure he wouldn't be >> too proud of that. Now I understand how he was treated >> after the fact, may be the main concern here (his rights), >> but personally what he did was so stupid, I am glad he >> got put through the ringer. If we had many people like him >> in this country, then we would be totally screwed, as our >> security people wouldn't be able to do any sort of job. >> >> Having said all this, I know little about the case, just the high >> level stuff spoken on here and in the news (on tv) at the time. >> I would hope that if his actions were misunderstood, >> and there was "mistakes" in the system, ?did he not >> get a warning, which he ignored? >> >> I guess my main concern is, if he really did >> detour resources, and in general the authorities >> had to take with even 1% possibility, that he may >> in fact have been plotting (or aiding in something), >> seems to me, it all went down as it should have, >> and the system handled it correctly and we can >> take great pride in the system. >> >> I am sure if there is more to the story, facts i need to know >> that would show me in fact in no way did he do anything to >> taught/deceive/detour law-enforcement, I am guessing >> people will be posting it here. ?But my main issue is, if >> he detoured resources (even if morally ?wrong, not directly legally >> wrong), he should pay, >> as if everyone did that, we ?would be SOL as a country. >> >> tl >> >> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> A court case that I have been following to some degree is the one >>> against Byron Sonne, an IT security expert who was arrested before the >>> G20 meeting last year. In late January I spent about a half hour >>> watching a small part of his preliminary hearing (where the Crown >>> (government) Prosecutor has to prove to a judge that they have enough >>> evidence that when they do reach trial they will not be laughed out). >>> The preliminary hearing is over and here is what happened: >>> >>> http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/945221--most-charges-dropped-against-g20-accused-in-jail-since-last-june >>> >>> Bottom line, most of the charges against Byron Sonne have been >>> dropped. Based on what little I saw the only thing that surprises me >>> is that any of the charges are still in place. >>> >>> >>> Colin McGregor >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > TBM > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Feb 26 19:05:56 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 14:05:56 -0500 Subject: [OT] Re:Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: <4D69383F.8020706-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D69383F.8020706@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Yes your last statement (and it sounds like there will be some interesting stuff to read about when the ban is lifted .. and there is a ban why?) i support, but, its our "under funded system" that unfortunately is at times a huge part of why legal issues can drag out for way to long (and appear unjust, lazy and mistake ridden), would it have helped if Byron's case were already fully tried months ago? obviously, and we seem to only have the tax paying voter to blame for that. I would love to pay more taxes, much more taxes to get a health system that is better then our third world one we have now, and a legal system that isn't so backed up, but doesn't seem to be a party i can vote for that wants to tax me more (and my fellow Canadians) to fix this stuff. (and i am not dishing any of the parties in particular.. probably its just a knock on Canadians in general as a group that would rather have broken stuff, but lower taxes. Of course better management of what we do pay, would also be nice, on all levels of government). tl On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 02/26/2011 07:47 AM, ted leslie wrote: >> In the brief amount i followed this when it happened, >> is it not simply the case that he baited law-enforcement, >> took resources away from making sure Canadians were secure, >> and thus his actions put us all in danger, and he needs a much >> deserved stay at the big house?(or some psychological help?) >> ?I know some people think >> what he did was obviously a joke, but the law can't make >> that assumption, as if he actually did in the end >> do (aid) in something, heads would roll and the people >> would get very upset. I hope he gets a few months >> a the health spa (we call the Canadian prison/jail system) >> (and time already served counted), and he hopefully >> will realize what he did was just so stupid. >> He is just lucky in the end there wasn't a "action" at the >> G20, and his mis-steering of important resources didn't result >> in getting innocent people getting killed, but, it could >> have been the case, and I am sure he wouldn't be >> too proud of that. Now I understand how he was treated >> after the fact, may be the main concern here (his rights), >> but personally what he did was so stupid, I am glad he >> got put through the ringer. If we had many people like him >> in this country, then we would be totally screwed, as our >> security people wouldn't be able to do any sort of job. >> >> Having said all this, I know little about the case, just the high >> level stuff spoken on here and in the news (on tv) at the time. >> I would hope that if his actions were misunderstood, >> and there was "mistakes" in the system, ?did he not >> get a warning, which he ignored? >> >> I guess my main concern is, if he really did >> detour resources, and in general the authorities >> had to take with even 1% possibility, that he may >> in fact have been plotting (or aiding in something), >> seems to me, it all went down as it should have, >> and the system handled it correctly and we can >> take great pride in the system. >> >> I am sure if there is more to the story, facts i need to know >> that would show me in fact in no way did he do anything to >> taught/deceive/detour law-enforcement, I am guessing >> people will be posting it here. ?But my main issue is, if >> he detoured resources (even if morally ?wrong, not directly legally >> wrong), he should pay, >> as if everyone did that, we ?would be SOL as a country. >> >> tl > > It is impossible for me to answer anything you've said here without > violating the publication ban. I will say that you are not alone in > feeling the way you do, and I will even go so far as to say that, as the > story has been told, I couldn't fault you for feeling that way. > > That said, the facts of this case are not public. What led to Byron > getting arrested certainly isn't out there. The reason he was treated so > harshly and even what "harshly" is in this case is all still under the > pub ban. > > So let me speak in generalities rather that this case specifically. > > First and foremost, everyone in this country is innocent until proven > guilty. The statements you have made depend entirely on the assumption > that he is, in fact, guilty. > > Next, in a democracy, there is the right to decent. Arguably, ever > protester diverted resources away from security of the fence. I know I > am being extreme with this, but would you say that every one of the > 1,100 protester deserved be kettled, arrested and held? 900 of which > were never charged in the end. Most of the remaining have had their > charges thrown out. A collective period in time where the police actions > were described by the Ontario Ombudsman as the worst violation of civil > liberties in Canadian history? > > The reason I am arguing this point is because "Security", "National > Security" and "Safety" are very common crutches of wrong-doing nations. > An extreme, blank-and-white example is how Gaddafi is cracking down > violently on the Libyan people justifying it with "public safety". I > doubt you or any other rational person would disagree at the terrible > atrocities being committed there and that "national security" is > hand-waving his desire to stay in power. > > So what then of the middle ground? How does a person, who sees what they > perceive to be a corrupt or broken system, make their voices heard? Now > what if that person has hobbies well outside the norm, like amateur > science? How does a person make a political statement on what he or she > sees as an over-bearing security system that has crossed a line? > > Back to Byron's case; I assure you, there is much, much more to this > story. The details will not come out until the publication ban has been > lifted, which will be when the trial begins (or ends, depending). > > A final statement on your last comment; > > A "free" country is not, inherently, a safe country. A free country is > one where individuals are free from oppression by the government. It > means being free from illegal detention, illegal search and seizure. To > this end, our legal system is supposed to be one where it is better to > let a guilty person go free than an innocent person be sent to jail. By > that fact, every time a guilty person goes free, the country is less > safe. It is a trade-off we decided to make when we, as a country, > decided that "Freedom" was more important than "Safety". > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: ?http://nodeassassin.org > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 27 06:33:50 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 01:33:50 -0500 Subject: really cheap and inexpensive system, today only In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110227063350.GA26658@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 02:14:43PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > http://www.pcvonline.com/ProductDetails.aspx?prodID=7763 > $100 for a Sempron desktop. New, minimal everything, no OS (doesn't > bother us!). I'm trying to save lunch money for SandyBridge. With my luck, AMD will come out with Bulldozer 1 week after I buy Intel. :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 27 06:41:51 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 01:41:51 -0500 Subject: [OT] Discussing Byron Sonne's case In-Reply-To: <4D693A98.4090505-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D693A98.4090505@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20110227064151.GB26658@node1.opengeometry.net> Sure, I'm interested. But, determining who is a member can be tricky. Do we show our id card at the door? Or, do we do "I know him"? -- William On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 12:38:32PM -0500, Digimer wrote: > In light of the recent thread, I wanted to put an offer out there for > TLUG members. > > The publication ban allows for face to face discussion on the case. I've > traveled as far as Montreal to talk about this case at hacker groups. I > would like to offer the same to TLUG members now. > > Before you come though, be aware of the responsibility of what legal > obligations you will have under the Canadian law (as I understand it > being a lay-person, in other words, IANAL). > > - Violating a publication ban is a reverse-onus crime. That means that, > should you be accused of it, you need to prove your innocence. > > - The offense is "broadcasting" protected information. In turn, we've > defined that as anything other that being within the hearing range of a > person's voice. No smoke signals or above. No private IRC or IM > discussions, etc. > > - The publication ban was requested by the defence and it is allowed on > simple request because of what can be said by the crown before trial. > There is essentially no barrier to what can be accused at the bail > stage, and the bar only moves up a bit at the prelim. The law recognizes > this and offers the publication ban to protect the accused from > accusations that are proven false before trial. This has been extremely > important in this case. All of this protects the tainting of a jury pool > and protects the accused person's name and reputation. > > To have this discussion, it can not be open to the public (that would be > broadcasting). I would suggest that membership in this list (before > today) would be a suitable requirement. > > If there is interest, let me know. :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 27 06:43:33 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 01:43:33 -0500 Subject: [OT] Discussing Byron Sonne's case In-Reply-To: <20110227064151.GB26658-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D693A98.4090505@alteeve.com> <20110227064151.GB26658@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4D69F295.7020206@alteeve.com> On 02/27/2011 01:41 AM, William Park wrote: > Sure, I'm interested. But, determining who is a member can be tricky. > Do we show our id card at the door? Or, do we do "I know him"? It doesn't have to be so strict, I think. The main thing is that it's "not open to the public". So don't advertise it on the website or anything and we should be fine. If they know of it, then they're likely a member of this ML or a friend. In which case, as I understand it, it's all good. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 27 13:17:08 2011 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 08:17:08 -0500 Subject: Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: <4D68831D.5000501-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D68831D.5000501@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4D6A4ED4.4040604@gmail.com> On 25/02/11 23:35, Digimer wrote: --------------------------------- snip ----------------------------- > > More coverage from today: > > - > http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/02/25/majority-of-g20-charges-against-security-consultant-byron-sonne-dropped/ > - > http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2011/02/25/17414541.html Notice how the Sun's Joe Warmington got the story wrong. Reading his article one gets the impression Byron was arrested for protesting at Queen's Park. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 27 14:17:33 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 09:17:33 -0500 Subject: Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: <4D6A4ED4.4040604-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4D68831D.5000501@alteeve.com> <4D6A4ED4.4040604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D6A5CFD.4020206@alteeve.com> On 02/27/2011 08:17 AM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > On 25/02/11 23:35, Digimer wrote: > --------------------------------- snip ----------------------------- >> >> More coverage from today: >> >> - >> http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/02/25/majority-of-g20-charges-against-security-consultant-byron-sonne-dropped/ >> >> - >> http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2011/02/25/17414541.html >> > > Notice how the Sun's Joe Warmington got the story wrong. Reading his > article one gets the impression Byron was arrested for protesting at > Queen's Park. > > Ivan. It seems like the dismissal of Byron's charges was tossed in there at the last minute. I suppose part of why I included it was that even The Sun is exasperated at what happened during the G20. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 27 15:10:45 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 10:10:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OT] Re:Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: <4D69383F.8020706-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D69383F.8020706@alteeve.com> Message-ID: | From: Digimer | A "free" country is not, inherently, a safe country. A free country is | one where individuals are free from oppression by the government. It | means being free from illegal detention, illegal search and seizure. Don't use the word "illegal" here because governments pass arbitrary laws. An example: the concept called "lawful access". But I do agree with your point. One thing that is fundamental to good government is Rule of Law. Most people mention "voting" as the key item but Rule of Law comes first. | It is a trade-off we decided to make when we, as a country, | decided that "Freedom" was more important than "Safety". Actually, the decision seems to have gone the other way since 911. But not in a reasoned or democratic way. | From: ted leslie | he (somehow) attracted attention as someone who "could" have caused a | problem at the summit I imagine that this is the system's problem, not his. The system is evidently crap and should be fixed. | http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/02/25/majority-of-g20-charges-against-security-consultant-byron-sonne-dropped/ | irregardless of whether he did it or not, my point was (at a minimum), | was he warned and did he continue, | morally (if he was warned, and did continue), he was morally wrong in | detouring resources that could | have saved lives if there was an issue. I think that you mean "regardless". Who, in our society, has the right to command someone to stop doing something that is legal? I can certainly think of narrow examples, but this doesn't appear to be one (I have no more inside knowledge than you do, so we are both speculating). I saw no mention of "warning" in the article you linked. Any surveilance system ought to be able to handle on-going false positives. | someone screwed up and endangered Canadians lives, and needs to pay. It sure isn't clear that anyone endangered Canadian lives. Unless you consider taking away more that half a year of someone's life "endangering". | If terrorists antraxed union station, and it wasn't caught because of | a "wild goose chase", | now that would just be dam peachy wouldn't it? Surveilance isn't zero-sum. A better system (which I imagine Byron arguing for) is just better. | There are major idiots in the legal system and in government but I | like to think there are some | check and balances that mean this couldn't have gotten this far | without some teeth - yeah I know | "wishful thinking". It is very likely that no individual is in the wrong, just that the system doesn't work very well. Legal proceedings take a long time even when the resources are available (and they are often not there). | If he was set up, someone framed him? then hey, he | will get 20 million for his time spent, | not so bad i suppose, i'd take 20M for 8-24 in a health spa, and he | will have promoted his cause too (whatever it is). I have never heard a claim of "framing". I would be surprised if anything is clear-cut enough that Byron could claim such compensation. But as I said, I have no inside knowledge. | From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 27 09:17:57 2011 | >> http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2011/02/25/17414541.html | It seems like the dismissal of Byron's charges was tossed in there at | the last minute. I suppose part of why I included it was that even The | Sun is exasperated at what happened during the G20. True. Amazing. ================ I watched this week's "Fifth Estate". It was about the police reactions to the G20 protests. Normally I don't like that the Fifth Estate because they get worked up about stories that they present in an unbalanced way. Not that the stories have no merit, but that the spin makes them muckraking. In this case, I thought they did a good job. Perhaps that means simply that they reflected my biases. The title of the episode was "You Should Have Stayed at Home". Apparently, most people think that the protestors brought this on themselves by not staying home. This is the worst possible result. I am getting the sense that democracy and good government are slipping away from us with our collective consent. Things that bother me: - G20 securty costs - heavy-handed G20 security (to put it nicely) - public reaction to heavy-handed G20 security - system's reaction to heavy-handed G20 security When it was in Vancouver ("For me, pepper, I put it on my plate") I chose to shrug it off. This time I'm deeply troubled. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 27 16:00:31 2011 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 11:00:31 -0500 Subject: [OT] Re:Byron Sonne.... In-Reply-To: <4D69383F.8020706-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D69383F.8020706@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4D6A751F.8050408@gmail.com> On 2/26/2011 12:28 PM, Digimer wrote: > Next, in a democracy, there is the right to decent. Arguably, ever > protester diverted resources away from security of the fence. I know I > am being extreme with this, but would you say that every one of the > 1,100 protester deserved be kettled, arrested and held? 900 of which > were never charged in the end. Hello Digimer, I hate to pick on this, but you're falling into the media's language trap. There were very, very, very few "protestors" We were mostly "demonstrators." There were a lot of different ideas on the ground, but they shared a theme. Families and friends of people from countries around the world who were living in oppressive governments hit the streets and demonstrated how harmless freedom of speech and expression was. In turn the Canadian government showed the world that Canada does not value freedom of expression, that even if you proclaim to be a free society, it's okay to pass temporary, secret laws and arrest people without cause. That firing teargas on crowds is okay, that military like posturing of police forces is what a freedom loving society does, and that there needs to be a barrier between the halls of government and the people of a democracy. Oppressive nations of the world came away with videos and anecdotes fuelling propaganda, supporting their positions and were given no reason to listen to the families of the people they were oppressing. It was a lost opportunity. We all as Canadians share a deep, deep shame. Even those who don't believe that we did anything wrong. All this said, Byron was in a minority, but he's a good anecdote for China to say "Well, you know, Canada had this guy who was testing the system, and they locked him away for a long time. We do the same. We're much like Canada, a freedom loving society." -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From solarflow99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 27 16:33:14 2011 From: solarflow99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (solarflow99) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 11:33:14 -0500 Subject: really cheap and inexpensive system, today only In-Reply-To: <20110227063350.GA26658-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110227063350.GA26658@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: hope you would get one with the CPU fix.. or just wait for ivy bridge 22nm On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 1:33 AM, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 02:14:43PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> http://www.pcvonline.com/ProductDetails.aspx?prodID=7763 >> $100 for a Sempron desktop. ?New, minimal everything, no OS (doesn't >> bother us!). > > I'm trying to save lunch money for SandyBridge. ?With my luck, AMD will > come out with Bulldozer 1 week after I buy Intel. :-) > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 27 17:27:24 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 12:27:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: really cheap and inexpensive system, today only In-Reply-To: References: <20110227063350.GA26658@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: | From: solarflow99 | On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 1:33 AM, William Park wrote: | > I'm trying to save lunch money for SandyBridge. ?With my luck, AMD will | > come out with Bulldozer 1 week after I buy Intel. :-) | hope you would get one with the CPU fix.. or just wait for ivy bridge 22nm [I hope you don't mind that I've fixed your top-posting.] Intel has been very good about disclosing this problem and attempting very expensive rectification. A few systems have not been recalled because it was determined that the bug (something to do with the SATA interface) would not affect those systems. (I still have a pair of P60 processor chips, one with the infamous FDIV bug and one without. I got rid of the boxes last year but kept the processors. The FDIV bug fiasco taught Intel some lessons.) From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Feb 27 22:47:11 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 17:47:11 -0500 Subject: really cheap and inexpensive system, today only In-Reply-To: References: <20110227063350.GA26658@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110227224711.GA2774@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 11:33:14AM -0500, solarflow99 wrote: > hope you would get one with the CPU fix.. or just wait for ivy bridge 22nm > > > On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 1:33 AM, William Park wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 02:14:43PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> http://www.pcvonline.com/ProductDetails.aspx?prodID=7763 > >> $100 for a Sempron desktop. ?New, minimal everything, no OS (doesn't > >> bother us!). > > > > I'm trying to save lunch money for SandyBridge. ?With my luck, AMD will > > come out with Bulldozer 1 week after I buy Intel. :-) "CPU fix"? You mean there's problem with CPU itself? Or, do you mean the recent recall of P67/H67 "Cougar Point" chipset? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 28 02:33:54 2011 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:33:54 -0500 Subject: [OT] Discussing Byron Sonne's case In-Reply-To: <4D69F295.7020206-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4D693A98.4090505@alteeve.com> <20110227064151.GB26658@node1.opengeometry.net> <4D69F295.7020206@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 1:43 AM, Digimer wrote: > On 02/27/2011 01:41 AM, William Park wrote: >> Sure, I'm interested. ?But, determining who is a member can be tricky. >> Do we show our id card at the door? ?Or, do we do "I know him"? > > It doesn't have to be so strict, I think. The main thing is that it's > "not open to the public". So don't advertise it on the website or > anything and we should be fine. If they know of it, then they're likely > a member of this ML or a friend. In which case, as I understand it, it's > all good. > I would be very interested in hearing more about Byron's case. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 28 02:41:42 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:41:42 -0500 Subject: [OT] Discussing Byron Sonne's case In-Reply-To: References: <4D693A98.4090505@alteeve.com> <20110227064151.GB26658@node1.opengeometry.net> <4D69F295.7020206@alteeve.com> Message-ID: >> It doesn't have to be so strict, I think. The main thing is that it's >> "not open to the public". So don't advertise it on the website or >> anything and we should be fine. If they know of it, then they're likely >> a member of this ML or a friend. In which case, as I understand it, it's >> all good. >> > > I would be very interested in hearing more about Byron's case. Count me in too. Also, would you happen to have a tentative date when it will take place? May be out of town for two weeks, so I am just hoping it will not be at that time William > > -- > TBM > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 28 02:47:41 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:47:41 -0500 Subject: [OT] Discussing Byron Sonne's case In-Reply-To: References: <4D693A98.4090505@alteeve.com> <20110227064151.GB26658@node1.opengeometry.net> <4D69F295.7020206@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4D6B0CCD.1090308@alteeve.com> On 02/27/2011 09:41 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Count me in too. Also, would you happen to have a tentative date when > it will take place? May be out of town for two weeks, so I am just > hoping it will not be at that time > > William Depending on how many more people are interested, I can tentatively say 6pm on the 4th at my office, 25 Adelaide St. East. If the number swells, then I might need help getting space. Regardless, I will cap it at ~20 members simply to avoid it being too big. Google Calendar invites have been sent to you guys. Please pass the word out to other members who may not be following this list who could be interested. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 28 05:00:57 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 00:00:57 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225224422.GX347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 8:16 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | > This was definitely NVidia's year. > > | The new ones being dual or even quad core ARM Cortex chips with rather > | impressive 3D graphics support will be impressive. ?Vastly more so than > | intel's pathetic video on their atom systems. > > I know very little about that world. ?Intel's Poulsbo chip for the > Atom (available for years) does have 3d acceleration (I think). ?We > Linux folks hate it because there is no decent open source driver. > That's because Intel licensed the PowerVR SGX 535 graphics core and > didn't get the right to disclose specs of it. > > I understand that there are a number of graphics cores used in the > non-PC space, that most or all of them are closed, and we rarely hear > about them. ?ATI was in this space but sold off that part of their > business. No doubt NVIDIA is keen on finding a variety of kinds of sales. The Tegra stuff seems like a good way of getting a lot of rather cheap CPUs deployed. Pretty low margin, but there's possibility of a LOT of them, and pennies on hundreds of millions of units do add up. The server side is an opportunity for much higher margins, if they can succeed at selling them. > | ?Of course anyone that > | wants a good atom buys one with an nvidia ion chipset. > > Only a small percentage of Atoms are sold for systems with IONs (but I > have some). ?I blame Intel. I suspect Microsoft may also be a participant in the policies that lead to it. ;-). > In the ION's space, ATI's new Fusion stuff looks interesting. ?See > this netbook, for example (it has been cheaper): > > > | If nvidia could manage to grab 10% of the ARM market for cell phones and > | such especially the high end models that do lots of multimedia stuff, > | they are going to be making some decent money. > > I've never understood the making money side of this stuff. ?nVidia and > ATI have rarely made much money if I remember correctly. > > Capturing geek mindshare certainly isn't strongly related to making > money. Yeah. Just because we like it doesn't mean it's profitable. (Indeed, often our liking may be negatively correlated with profitability!) > (Just a guess: Apple was probably a customer that PowerPC vendors > should have fired. ?I bet the cost money to the vendors.) Perhaps. Indications are that Jobs would play spectacular hardball when negotiating with hardware vendors. On the other hand, Apple's a mighty credible reference, so perhaps there's value in getting sales based on that reference. But certainly they'd lose the usual "early adopter premium", as Apple was pretty jealous to keep that premium to themselves. I wonder how things are going with Intel, negotiations-wise. I'd imagine that Apple can't play as much of a prima-donna there. Though they'll doubtless be playing games surrounding "oh, we've got our own chip design, better treat us right! -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 28 05:09:15 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 00:09:15 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110226010720.GA2283-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225224422.GX347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110226010720.GA2283@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 8:07 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 06:09:21PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > >>And there's a server-relevant side to this, as well. >> >>Amazon's EC2 service is renting this out as service. >>http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/ >> >>Look for: >> ? "Cluster GPU Quadruple Extra Large Instance" >> >>What they notably include, GPU-wise, is: >> ? 2 x NVIDIA Tesla ?Fermi? M2050 GPUs >> >>They characterize this as being for "high performance rendering >>needs," but there are likely other use cases possible, and if this >>sort of thing takes off, it certainly offers NVIDIA an expanded market >>in server deployments where they generally have had *no* real place >>thus far. > > I read this[1] post a few months ago that mentioned using GPUs for a > sorting algorithm, achieving sorting rates of 482 million fixed-length > key-value pairs per second. ?Being able to offload hash-based sorts of > this kind of magnitude will become more and more useful in big-data > situations or highly parallel processing tasks. ?It's not a problem I've > got today, but it might be one I have tomorrow. > > [1] http://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2010/12/16/GPGPUSorting.aspx There has been research on this ongoing for some time. The neat result I've seen is that shifting sorts over to the GPU can pay off even though there's a not-inconsiderable cost in copying the data into place for the GPU to access. I imagine that the NSA would be keenly interested in "lotsa GPU" boards to build DSP analysis systems. Applications like the infamous Echelon require a lot of signal analysis, and this kind of hardware should be mighty good at that. 448 cores on one board is nothing to sniff at! It mayn't be of general use, though, for the "many many GPU cores" case. A sorting application won't be able to harness that many GPUs, because the amount of work done on each byte of data that needs to be transferred between the "general purpose" side to the GPUs isn't enough to warrant it. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 28 16:33:29 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:33:29 -0500 Subject: USB mouse -> 50% CPU load ? In-Reply-To: <20110225225538.GA5193-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110225225538.GA5193@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110228163329.GY347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 05:55:38PM -0500, William Park wrote: > I usually use "top" or "w" for system load, but was curious to try out > "System Monitor" that comes with KDE-4.4.3. Simply moving my USB mouse > uses 50% of my dual-core 3.2GHz cpu. I just can't believe this. Anyone > experienced similar thing? Well moving the mouse causes lost of X events to be sent to the applications you move over. I certainly see the load of Xorg and a few other things go up when I move the mouse, but not 50%. Maybe 10%. May depend on the application of course, and your X driver. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 28 16:36:19 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:36:19 -0500 Subject: really cheap and inexpensive system, today only In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110228163619.GZ347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 02:14:43PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > http://www.pcvonline.com/ProductDetails.aspx?prodID=7763 > $100 for a Sempron desktop. New, minimal everything, no OS (doesn't > bother us!). Minimal for sure. In fact almost everything in the box is junk. It will quite likely not be very reliable. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 28 16:37:32 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:37:32 -0500 Subject: really cheap and inexpensive system, today only In-Reply-To: <20110227224711.GA2774-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110227063350.GA26658@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110227224711.GA2774@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110228163732.GA347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 05:47:11PM -0500, William Park wrote: > "CPU fix"? You mean there's problem with CPU itself? Or, do you mean > the recent recall of P67/H67 "Cougar Point" chipset? Yeah it is a chipset problem, not a CPU problem. I don't recall hearing about any actual problem with the CPU itself. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 28 16:38:47 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:38:47 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: <20110225234058.GA5233-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225224422.GX347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225234058.GA5233@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110228163847.GB347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 06:40:58PM -0500, William Park wrote: > Consider this (something I've heard): > What if netbooks come with cell phone builtin? > Degree of integration with host computer will affect useability, but I'm > sure it will be ironed out pretty fast. I really don't want a 5x8" cell phone. Hard to use. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 28 16:47:51 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:47:51 -0500 Subject: The main advantage of a pre-loaded OS... In-Reply-To: References: <20110222075527.GA9955@waltdnes.org> <20110225164203.GA5657@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225165557.GU347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225171855.GA12811@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110225172653.GV347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110225224422.GX347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110228164751.GC347@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 08:16:03PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I know very little about that world. Intel's Poulsbo chip for the > Atom (available for years) does have 3d acceleration (I think). We > Linux folks hate it because there is no decent open source driver. > That's because Intel licensed the PowerVR SGX 535 graphics core and > didn't get the right to disclose specs of it. > > I understand that there are a number of graphics cores used in the > non-PC space, that most or all of them are closed, and we rarely hear > about them. ATI was in this space but sold off that part of their > business. > > Only a small percentage of Atoms are sold for systems with IONs (but I > have some). I blame Intel. Well adding the ION chipset probably increases the production cost by $20 or so, which at the price point the atom devices are at, is a lot. And the power consumption probably goes up a bit, which reduces battery life (although greatly increases the usefulness of the device for video and graphics). > In the ION's space, ATI's new Fusion stuff looks interesting. See > this netbook, for example (it has been cheaper): > Yes the fusion looks interesting, but I still dread the ATI drivers being involved. I hope they are getting better at it. > I've never understood the making money side of this stuff. nVidia and > ATI have rarely made much money if I remember correctly. Well they spend a lot on research and competing with each other. If one of them went away, high end graphics would get expensive and/or stop improving at the current rate. > Capturing geek mindshare certainly isn't strongly related to making > money. > > (Just a guess: Apple was probably a customer that PowerPC vendors > should have fired. I bet the cost money to the vendors.) Well originally turning the power architecture into a single chip CPU was a joint project between IBM, Motorola and Apple. Of course apple was using mostly Motorola made 601, 603 and 604 chips at the start, and later other motorola PPC chips. IBM went more high end because they wanted the chips for what the power architecture was originally for, the RS/6000 workstations, and later the AS/400 systems (now the i series I believe). Even the z series mainframes are based on the powerpc chips now (although they are not powerpc machines as such, at least not yet). Apple did eventually use IBM chips in the G5 (IBM's 970 series), but complained they ran too hot and would never go in a laptop. Motorola spun off the chip business as freescale, which now sells piles of embedded powerpc chips for various uses (Given Ciscos are powerpc boxes, I imagine they are all freescale chip based). Of course IBM has made other powerpc chips besides the ones they use themselves, such as the one in the Nintendo Gabecube, the Wii, the Xbox 360, and of course working with Toshiba and Sony, the Cell in the PS3, although IBM has dropped use of the Cell, and Sony just took over ownership of the production of the Cell processor. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Feb 28 21:31:42 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 13:31:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Forcing HTML rendering in Firefox... how? Message-ID: <613514.82222.qm@web113413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi all, When browsing local filesystem using Firefox, if a file doesn't end in recognized ending, Firefox reads it as text. How do I force HTML interpretation by Firefox? Lynx equivalent would be '-force_html' option. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists