From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 2 23:39:03 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 19:39:03 -0400 Subject: VoIP home phone from Teksavvy (TekTalk)? Message-ID: <20110802233903.GA3717@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi all, Has anyone tried VoIP home phone from teksavvy.com (called "TekTalk"), or from any other ISP? I'm wondering, for $9.95/month, what's the catch? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 3 04:24:31 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 00:24:31 -0400 Subject: VoIP home phone from Teksavvy (TekTalk)? In-Reply-To: <20110802233903.GA3717-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110802233903.GA3717@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4E38CD7F.1000407@ss.org> On 08/02/2011 07:39 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > Has anyone tried VoIP home phone from teksavvy.com (called "TekTalk"), > > or from any other ISP? I'm wondering, for $9.95/month, what's the > catch? The biggest gotcha is going to be the fact that if your DSL goes down, so does your VoIP. There are a lot of problems that can disrupt DSL, but not POTS (plain old telephone service). The quality of your DSL service also matters, phone signals can reach a LOT farther and still be usable on a dodgy line then DSL. DSL can also be much higher latency. ~10ms if you have a good quality line (for a Fast Channel profile) or ~40ms for poor quality (using an Interleave Profile to compensate). You best also make sure your ISP has an alternate contact number for when the send a Bell dispatch to fix the line (because it's almost all Bell infrastructure, no matter which ISP your with for DSL). If Bell can't get a hold of you they used to just drop the matter, but recent policy changes means they hand it off to the ISPs and say "You schedule your subscriber". It can work and be much cheaper if you already have DSL, but just be aware that a lot more can go wrong with DSL then just POTS. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 3 05:24:54 2011 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 08:24:54 +0300 Subject: VoIP home phone from Teksavvy (TekTalk)? In-Reply-To: <4E38CD7F.1000407-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <20110802233903.GA3717@node1.opengeometry.net> <4E38CD7F.1000407@ss.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 7:24 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > On 08/02/2011 07:39 PM, William Park wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Has anyone tried VoIP home phone from teksavvy.com (called "TekTalk"), >> >> > >> or from any other ISP? I'm wondering, for $9.95/month, what's the >> catch? >> > > The biggest gotcha is going to be the fact that if your DSL goes down, so > does your VoIP. > There are a lot of problems that can disrupt DSL, but not POTS (plain old > telephone service). > > The quality of your DSL service also matters, phone signals can reach a LOT > farther and still be usable on a dodgy line then DSL. > DSL can also be much higher latency. ~10ms if you have a good quality line > (for a Fast Channel profile) or ~40ms for poor quality (using an Interleave > Profile to compensate). > > You best also make sure your ISP has an alternate contact number for when > the send a Bell dispatch to fix the line (because it's almost all Bell > infrastructure, no matter which ISP your with for DSL). If Bell can't get a > hold of you they used to just drop the matter, but recent policy changes > means they hand it off to the ISPs and say "You schedule your subscriber". > > > It can work and be much cheaper if you already have DSL, but just be aware > that a lot more can go wrong with DSL then just POTS. > You are right POTS in theory should have much less problems but at least in Israel I have seen many times that DSL did work and phone did not (standard phone). As for VoIP phones, some company in Israel markets I think something similar but it connects between the line and the DSL modem. I don't have any personal experience with it but I heard people saying in caused problems with their Internet connection. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 3 21:19:31 2011 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 17:19:31 -0400 Subject: [OT] Re:VoIP home phone from Teksavvy (TekTalk)? In-Reply-To: <20110802233903.GA3717-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110802233903.GA3717@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 7:39 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > Has anyone tried VoIP home phone from teksavvy.com (called "TekTalk"), > ? ? > or from any other ISP? ?I'm wondering, for $9.95/month, what's the > catch? There is really no catch, it's just that the POTS are ripping people off. Canada still suffers from an oligopoly between Bell, Rogers and Telus but the tide seems to be turning. A DID (a fixed number) costs about $3 wholesale and the minute is on average 1 to 2 cents US. The are actually making 100% profit because most "unlimited" services are actually capped at 2-3K minutes, which constitutes "reasonable use" on your "unlimited" contract (this holds true for almost any voice provider whether POTS or VoIP). The company I work for offers a $5.99/mo CAD plan with 60 free minutes included and a flat rate of 0.02 CAD (incoming and outgoing) for US/CAN and international rates cheaper than Skype. We are still not full scale but have gotten great reviews from our existing customer base, and a lot of word-of-mouth business. At 5.99 we are still making good profit but we don't offer "unlimited"plans because they are a big bluff. Anyway, the point was that it's a very straight-forward business, we just buy and re-sell SIP services from wholesale providers and it's exactly what Acanac and TekSavvy are doing. Since we use Asterisk (most probably what Acanac and TekSavvy use) our operating costs are minimal since we save on all the up-front license costs you would get from Cisco, or similar. Contrary to popular belief the TCP/IP protocol is actually ideal for voice multiplexing and only requires about 60 kilobits (and less even) per call to work correctly. There are some QoS considerations and SIP is problematic for NAT and such, but as soon as IPv6 goes mainstream, many SIP problems will probably go away. We use both IAX and SIP which today gives us the ability to just plug and play, and also multiplex several calls over the same channel, and the IAX hardware is going down in price every day, but then again SIP is simpler and there is a lot of cheaper hw that supports SIP. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 4 12:45:14 2011 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 08:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Mass Layoffs in China Message-ID: Looks like a shakeup is coming in the assembly lines If the workers commit suicide because they can't live on their wages, replace them by 1M robots http://www.mathabba.net/news/?x=627808?rss -- Slackrat The original Slacker -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 4 12:49:26 2011 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:49:26 +0300 Subject: Mass Layoffs in China In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The right link is: http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=627808?rss On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:45 PM, SlackRat wrote: > Looks like a shakeup is coming in the assembly lines > > If the workers commit suicide because they can't live on their wages, > replace them by 1M robots > > http://www.mathabba.net/news/?**x=627808?rss > > -- > Slackrat > The original Slacker > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 4 13:11:03 2011 From: slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 09:11:03 -0400 Subject: Mass Layoffs in China In-Reply-To: (Ori Idan's message of "Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:49:26 +0300") References: Message-ID: <85d3gluxs0.fsf@azurservers.com> Ori Idan a ?crit profondement: | The right link is: http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=627808?rss > Sorry about that I can't copy text and mis-spelt the URL I still can't resolve my reverse lookup problem is why I have to jump through hoops to get mail out. I pay my money to a company called TekSavvy But my reverse lookup actually varies either distributel.net or 3webCorp Teksavvy don't respond to emails - apart from the automessage they send initially The only saving grace is that my connect speed is reasonable - 30.80 a minute ago 8/4/2011 4:23 AM GMT 206.188.66.146 20.26 Mb/s 0.93 Mb/s 8/4/2011 4:27 AM GMT 206.188.66.146 24.27 Mb/s 0.81 Mb/s 8/4/2011 4:29 AM GMT 206.188.66.146 18.26 Mb/s 0.57 Mb/s 8/4/2011 4:35 AM GMT 206.188.66.146 37.09 Mb/s 0.85 Mb/s 8/4/2011 8:59 AM GMT 206.188.66.146 32.66 Mb/s 0.98 Mb/s 8/4/2011 1:04 PM GMT 206.188.66.146 30.80 Mb/s 0.21 Mb/s -- Slackrat Flying the Flag of the English http://usera.imagecave.com/daveycrockett/englishdragon.jpg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 4 15:12:59 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 11:12:59 -0400 Subject: Mass Layoffs in China In-Reply-To: <85d3gluxs0.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <85d3gluxs0.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <20110804151259.GA8997@yam.witteman.ca> On Thu, Aug 04, 2011 at 09:11:03AM -0400, Slack Rat wrote: >Ori Idan a ?crit profondement: > >| The right link is: http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=627808?rss >> > >Sorry about that > >I can't copy text and mis-spelt the URL > >I still can't resolve my reverse lookup problem is why I have to jump >through hoops to get mail out. > >I pay my money to a company called TekSavvy > >But my reverse lookup actually varies >either distributel.net >or 3webCorp > >Teksavvy don't respond to emails - apart from the automessage they send >initially At the risk of drawing ire for responding to a hijacked thread, I always phone Teksavvy and get great customer service. 1-877-357-2889 -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 4 16:53:18 2011 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 12:53:18 -0400 Subject: Mass Layoffs in China In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E3ACE7E.7070709@rogers.com> On 04/08/11 8:49 AM, Ori Idan wrote: > The right link is: http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=627808?rss > > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:45 PM, SlackRat > wrote: > > Looks like a shakeup is coming in the assembly lines > > If the workers commit suicide because they can't live on their wages, > replace them by 1M robots > > http://www.mathabba.net/news/?__x=627808?rss > > > -- > Slackrat > The original Slacker Slackrat, The article says: "... is in the spotlight after a string of suicides of workers at its massive Chinese plants, which some blamed on tough working conditions." I don't understand how you concluded "the workers commit suicide because they can't live on their wages" from the article. What I get from the article is that there is ugly, dirty, strenuous, or repetitive work, which robots are better suited to do. Back in the '60's and '70's in North American auto plants, before the robots arrived, there was lots of tough work being done. We're still here, after the robots arrived. -- Yanni -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 5 03:29:08 2011 From: bjonkman-w5ExpX8uLjYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Bob Jonkman) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 23:29:08 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu Hour in Kitchener, Friday 6:30pm, Misty Mountain Coffee Company Message-ID: <4E3B6384.6010008@sobac.com> Hi all: A bit short notice, but Charles McColm (of Computer Recycling) will be hosting an Ubuntu Hour at the Misty Mountain Coffee Company, 33 Queen St. S. in Kitchener from 6:30pm to 8:00pm (or later) on Friday, 5 August 2011. Bring your laptop (or not), talk about Ubuntu (or not), drink some coffee (or a have a snack). Charles is a member of the Ubuntu CD Bribery Program, so there will be Ubuntu/Kubuntu and Server disks. Announcement: http://charlesmccolm.com/2011/08/04/friday-august-5-2011-ubuntu-hour-in-kitchener-ontario/ Registration (or not): http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ca/1122/detail/ Hope to see you there! --Bob. -- Bob Jonkman http://sobac.com/sobac/ SOBAC Microcomputer Services Voice: +1-519-669-0388 6 James Street, Elmira ON Canada N3B 1L5 Cel: +1-519-635-9413 Software --- Office& Business Automation --- Consulting -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 5 11:48:10 2011 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 07:48:10 -0400 Subject: LDAP how is Failover done? Message-ID: Hi, I need some direction on where to start with a solution for replacing some LDAP infrastructure. We presently have 1 LDAP server. My manager desires multiple LDAP servers (and so do I for failover/disaster recover) The largest issue appears to be keeping changes in user passwords in sync. What have you folks done to deal with that? Right now, there are 2 models we are debating: Model 1: 1 Master - 3 slaves Build a scenario where 3 slaves are used for the largest volume (reading) * the exception would be password changes which would require updates directly on the Master * administration would be on the Master (i.e. by me, and my sysadmin friends) Model 2: 3 Masters - 3 way replication All 3 servers can be written to * the problem is keeping them in sync in cases where something is changed on one, and then on another between replication cycles. Anyone have experience setting up something like this? Thank you! John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 5 12:57:23 2011 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 08:57:23 -0400 Subject: LDAP how is Failover done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E3BE8B3.2040401@gmail.com> On 05/08/11 7:48, John Miles wrote: > Hi, > > I need some direction on where to start with a solution for replacing some LDAP > infrastructure. > > We presently have 1 LDAP server. > > My manager desires multiple LDAP servers (and so do I for failover/disaster recover) > > The largest issue appears to be keeping changes in user passwords in sync. > > What have you folks done to deal with that? > > Right now, there are 2 models we are debating: > > Model 1: > 1 Master - 3 slaves > Build a scenario where 3 slaves are used for the largest volume (reading) > * the exception would be password changes which would require updates directly > on the Master > * administration would be on the Master (i.e. by me, and my sysadmin friends) > > Model 2: > 3 Masters - 3 way replication > All 3 servers can be written to > * the problem is keeping them in sync in cases where something is changed on > one, and then on another between replication cycles. > > Anyone have experience setting up something like this? > > Thank you! > > John. Have you considered clustering? We have a gtalug member who is an expert at that. She's even posted a tutorial here: https://alteeve.com/w/Red_Hat_Cluster_Service_2_Tutorial At first glance I prefer Model 1. Even for the postgres folk and Chris will correct me if I'm wrong, multi-mastering is a "hard" problem. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 5 13:11:52 2011 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:11:52 -0400 Subject: VoIP home phone from Teksavvy (TekTalk)? In-Reply-To: <20110802233903.GA3717-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110802233903.GA3717@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4E3BEC18.8050009@gmail.com> On 02/08/11 19:39, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > Has anyone tried VoIP home phone from teksavvy.com (called "TekTalk"), > > or from any other ISP? I'm wondering, for $9.95/month, what's the > catch? I have a friend on TekSavvy and VOIP from Vbuzzer. Unfortunately one needs a Windows client machine to modify the voicemail greeting. I had to fix another friend's netbook whose wireless was borked (an obscure setting in MS XP) so we quickly modified the voicemail with that. For the phone we're using regular Panasonic Cordless plugged into a Linksys PAP2T-NA device. The Phone service is U$60 a year. It's been a year and there has been no DSL outage (Friend lives in a condo) and the VOIP went down once. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 5 14:27:12 2011 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 10:27:12 -0400 Subject: LDAP how is Failover done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 7:48 AM, John Miles wrote: > Hi, > > I need some direction on where to start with a solution for replacing some > LDAP infrastructure. > > We presently have 1 LDAP server. > OpenLDAP? > My manager desires multiple LDAP servers (and so do I for failover/disaster > recover) > [...] > Model 1: [...] OpenLDAP supports several replication models including n-way replication, and should handle several thousand users on a single sever without a hiccup. Unless your set-up is extremely huge your proposed schemes seem overkill IMHO. The easiest scheme in my experience is master -> slave where the slave is just a passive warm stand-by server. When the master goes down, just change the IPs and the config files and re-start the slave as master while you fix the old master to create a new slave. The downtime is minimal and it's easily automate-able, and there are no other external components like an LDAP reverse proxy/balancer or anything like that. The truth is, that unless you partition your DIT and use referrals, etc. you will _always_ have a single point of failure so many elaborate schemes are just complications that will bite you down the line. > Anyone have experience setting up something like this? > If it's OpenLDAP I could help out more.Is this only LDAP or LDAP + Samba ? > Thank you! > > John. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 5 17:06:19 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dev Guy) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 13:06:19 -0400 Subject: OT: Cheap SSL certificate, where can I buy one Message-ID: Guys, I am researching where to buy a good SSL certificate, can anyone recommend me one. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 5 17:28:47 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 13:28:47 -0400 Subject: OT: Cheap SSL certificate, where can I buy one In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E3C284F.4070007@alteeve.com> On 08/05/2011 01:06 PM, Dev Guy wrote: > Guys, > > I am researching where to buy a good SSL certificate, can anyone > recommend me one. > I got mine from http://www.trustico.ca/ (reseller if http://RapidSSL.com). Best price I could find and pretty painless setup. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 5 18:39:22 2011 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 14:39:22 -0400 Subject: OT: Cheap SSL certificate, where can I buy one In-Reply-To: <4E3C284F.4070007-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E3C284F.4070007@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4E3C38DA.1090009@yahoo.ca> On 11-08-05 01:28 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 08/05/2011 01:06 PM, Dev Guy wrote: >> Guys, >> >> I am researching where to buy a good SSL certificate, can anyone >> recommend me one. >> > I got mine from http://www.trustico.ca/ (reseller if > http://RapidSSL.com). Best price I could find and pretty painless setup. Depending what you need it for, you may find this free one good enough: http://www.cacert.org It's root certificate is included already in a few distros but is still not in mainstream browsers (IE, FF) http://wiki.cacert.org/InclusionStatus . But it is handy for the way that I use it (need to first trust their root certificate at each new machine/OS/browser in our organization, and from then onwards all our issued certificates are trusted without prompting). Cheers. Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 5 21:05:04 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 17:05:04 -0400 Subject: Humble Indie Bundle #3 is on. In-Reply-To: <20110727141141.GC8564-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110727141141.GC8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110805210504.GP8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 10:11:41AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > More games at whatever price you like (which as usual is higher the > further you get from running a mainstream commercial OS). > > http://www.humblebundle.com/ > > Native Windows, Mac and Linux and no DRM. Now the bundle has 12 games total. The original 5, two bonus games, and the 5 from bundle 2 (bundle 2 games require paying at least the current average price). 4 days left on the deal. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 6 02:56:30 2011 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 22:56:30 -0400 Subject: LDAP how is Failover done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you Alejandro, Yes, we are using OpenLDAP, running on Ubuntu 10.04 On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Alejandro Imass wrote: > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 7:48 AM, John Miles wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I need some direction on where to start with a solution for replacing > some > > LDAP infrastructure. > > > > We presently have 1 LDAP server. > > > > OpenLDAP? > > > My manager desires multiple LDAP servers (and so do I for > failover/disaster > > recover) > > > > [...] > > > Model 1: > > [...] > > > OpenLDAP supports several replication models including n-way > replication, and should handle several thousand users on a single > sever without a hiccup. Unless your set-up is extremely huge your > proposed schemes seem overkill IMHO. > > The easiest scheme in my experience is master -> slave where the slave > is just a passive warm stand-by server. When the master goes down, > just change the IPs and the config files and re-start the slave as > master while you fix the old master to create a new slave. The > downtime is minimal and it's easily automate-able, and there are no > other external components like an LDAP reverse proxy/balancer or > anything like that. The truth is, that unless you partition your DIT > and use referrals, etc. you will _always_ have a single point of > failure so many elaborate schemes are just complications that will > bite you down the line. > > > Anyone have experience setting up something like this? > > > > If it's OpenLDAP I could help out more.Is this only LDAP or LDAP + Samba ? > > > Thank you! > > > > John. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 6 13:52:32 2011 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 09:52:32 -0400 Subject: LDAP how is Failover done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, so you have 2 options with config: a) keep using the old slapd.conf file b) use the new ldif format config structure I am personally more familiar with (a) although it's being deprecated but it's easily translatable to (b). So here are the important config options for simple master-slave config, YMMV of course.... Remember, this is a very simple warm slave exact replica, but with OpenLDAP you could do many other exotic things. GENERAL -------------- - Make sure you include the _exact_ same schemas on both sides. - Make sure the suffix is the same on both sides MASTER ------------- # Load the syncprov module and identify this server # Place right after any other module load moduleload syncprov serverID 1 # In your DB config... # Increase cache size to 256MB dbconfig set_cachesize 0 268435456 0 # for replication you must index at least these: index objectclass,entryCSN,entryUUID eq overlay syncprov # tailor these two to your specific needs syncprov-checkpoint 10 10 syncprov-sessionlog 10 # I reduce the checkpoint considerably, read docs and tailor to your needs checkpoint 10 10 # access rules follow.... SLAVE ---------- # right after the moduleloads, identify this server serverID 2 # note there is no need for syncprov # same cache size dbconfig set_cachesize 0 268435456 0 # same indexes index objectclass,entryCSN,entryUUID eq # sync details for slave syncrepl rid=001 provider=ldap://[MASTER IP HERE] bindmethod=simple binddn="[ADMIN CN HERE]" credentials=[ADMIN PASSWD HERE] searchbase="[REPL BASE NODE (note 1)]" schemachecking=on type=refreshAndPersist retry="20 +" # can leave lazy checkpoint here if you want checkpoint 512 30 HOW IT WORKS: 1) Set-up your master and load the data 2) Fire up the slave and wait a few seconds (or minutes, depending on the size) 3) Voil?, the slave should be a replica within seconds (or minutes) No need to load the data on the slave. It should load automagically. WHEN MASTER FAILS: 1) stop the slapd on both sides (your master may already be dead. 2) Swap the config files (note 2) 3) Change the IPs (slave has master IP now and vice-versa) 4) Start the new master. 5) Create a new slave (or fix old master and now turn it into slave) Notes: (1) For this simple example use the same root node suffix for this (2) how to do this with the new ldif config structure is for you to research, I'm not too clear on this For now, and to experiment with simple slapd.conf you can disable the ldif config altogether by changing the /etc/defaults/ldap to point to the slapd.conf and deleting the ldif config structure. I don't recommend this but rather research how all this works with the new ldif config structure and post it back here so I can learn how ;-) Best, -- Alejandro Imass On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 10:56 PM, John Miles wrote: > Thank you Alejandro, > > Yes, we are using OpenLDAP, running on Ubuntu 10.04 > > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Alejandro Imass > wrote: >> >> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 7:48 AM, John Miles wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > I need some direction on where to start with a solution for replacing >> > some >> > LDAP infrastructure. >> > >> > We presently have 1 LDAP server. >> > >> >> OpenLDAP? >> >> > My manager desires multiple LDAP servers (and so do I for >> > failover/disaster >> > recover) >> > >> >> [...] >> >> > Model 1: >> >> [...] >> >> >> OpenLDAP supports several replication models including n-way >> replication, and should handle several thousand users on a single >> sever without a hiccup. Unless your set-up is extremely huge your >> proposed schemes seem overkill IMHO. >> >> The easiest scheme in my experience is master -> slave where the slave >> is just a passive warm stand-by server. When the master goes down, >> just change the IPs and the config files and re-start the slave as >> master while you fix the old master to create a new slave. The >> downtime is minimal and it's easily automate-able, and there are no >> other external components like an LDAP reverse proxy/balancer or >> anything like that. The truth is, that unless you partition your DIT >> and use referrals, etc. you will _always_ have a single point of >> failure so many elaborate schemes are just complications that will >> bite you down the line. >> >> > Anyone have experience setting up something like this? >> > >> >> If it's OpenLDAP I could help out more.Is this only LDAP or LDAP + Samba ? >> >> > Thank you! >> > >> > John. >> > >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 6 16:03:09 2011 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2011 12:03:09 -0400 Subject: Mass Layoffs in China In-Reply-To: <4E3ACE7E.7070709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: , , <4E3ACE7E.7070709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4E3D2D7D.21808.1FE59737@sciguy.vex.net> It's still shocking, Yanni, even after you replace the phrase with "commit suicide due to tough working conditions." Rather than improve working conditions, they would sooner displace thousands of labourers, is the message I still get from the article. I still find that tragic. Paul King On 4 Aug 2011 at 12:53, Yanni Chiu wrote: > On 04/08/11 8:49 AM, Ori Idan wrote: > > The right link is: http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=627808?rss > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:45 PM, SlackRat > > wrote: > > > > Looks like a shakeup is coming in the assembly lines > > > > If the workers commit suicide because they can't live on their wages, > > replace them by 1M robots > > > > http://www.mathabba.net/news/?__x=627808?rss > > > > > > -- > > Slackrat > > The original Slacker > > Slackrat, > > The article says: "... is in the spotlight after a string of suicides of > workers at its massive Chinese plants, which some blamed on tough > working conditions." > > I don't understand how you concluded "the workers commit suicide because > they can't live on their wages" from the article. > > What I get from the article is that there is ugly, dirty, strenuous, or > repetitive work, which robots are better suited to do. Back in the '60's > and '70's in North American auto plants, before the robots arrived, > there was lots of tough work being done. We're still here, after the > robots arrived. > > -- > Yanni > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ NOD32 6348 (20110803) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 7 02:22:38 2011 From: edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (edward chin) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 22:22:38 -0400 Subject: Mass Layoffs in China In-Reply-To: <4E3D2D7D.21808.1FE59737-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E3ACE7E.7070709@rogers.com> <4E3D2D7D.21808.1FE59737@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: According to the following article, the robots are being used to improve working conditions and to reduce suicides. http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/robot-solution-to-chinese-suicides-20110802-1i9u1.html On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 12:03 PM, wrote: > It's still shocking, Yanni, even after you replace the phrase with > "commit suicide due to tough working conditions." Rather than improve > working conditions, they would sooner displace thousands of labourers, > is the message I still get from the article. I still find that tragic. > > Paul King > > On 4 Aug 2011 at 12:53, Yanni Chiu wrote: > >> On 04/08/11 8:49 AM, Ori Idan wrote: >> > The right link is: http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=627808?rss >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:45 PM, SlackRat > > > wrote: >> > >> > ? ? Looks like a shakeup is coming in the assembly lines >> > >> > ? ? If the workers commit suicide because they can't live on their wages, >> > ? ? replace them by 1M robots >> > >> > ? ? http://www.mathabba.net/news/?__x=627808?rss >> > ? ? >> > >> > ? ? -- >> > ? ? Slackrat >> > ? ? The original Slacker >> >> Slackrat, >> >> The article says: "... is in the spotlight after a string of suicides of >> workers at its massive Chinese plants, which some blamed on tough >> working conditions." >> >> I don't understand how you concluded "the workers commit suicide because >> they can't live on their wages" from the article. >> >> What I get from the article is that there is ugly, dirty, strenuous, or >> repetitive work, which robots are better suited to do. Back in the '60's >> and '70's in North American auto plants, before the robots arrived, >> there was lots of tough work being done. We're still here, after the >> robots arrived. >> >> -- >> Yanni >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> __________ NOD32 6348 (20110803) Information __________ >> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 8 11:59:01 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 07:59:01 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 10 Aug 2011 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Unix Unanimous Webmaster Date: Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:01 AM Subject: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 10 Aug 2011 To: u-u-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at 6:45 pm on Wednesday 10 August 2011, in room BA 2135 on the 2nd floor of the the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. George Street, on the University of Toronto campus. Unix Unanimous is an informal gathering of people interested in Unix and related topics. There are no fees or membership requirements, and the meeting is open to all. Participants typically include Unix professionals, students, and hobbyists. This message will be repeated on the Monday before the meeting. If there are any items for the agenda, email u-u-owner-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org before then. The meeting is always held on the second Wednesday of each month. Special Announcements: A mailing list has been set up for this announcement. If you wish to receive notification via email, go to the web page https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u/ in order to subscribe yourself. A map of the area can be found at http://unixunanimous.org where this message is repeated, and will always contain the correct location and time of the next meeting. _______________________________________________ u-u mailing list u-u-sb41XHKw7bdvuSlQZN9BUtrUbErFZevf at public.gmane.org https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 8 15:15:04 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 11:15:04 -0400 Subject: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 10 Aug 2011 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 7:59 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > FYI Ooops, the room number will be BA 2179 (NOT what is noted below...) > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Unix Unanimous Webmaster > Date: Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:01 AM > Subject: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 10 Aug 2011 > To: u-u-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org > > > > The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at 6:45 pm on > Wednesday 10 August 2011, in room BA 2135 on the 2nd floor of the > the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. George Street, > on the University of Toronto campus. > > Unix Unanimous is an informal gathering of people interested in > Unix and related topics. There are no fees or membership > requirements, and the meeting is open to all. Participants > typically include Unix professionals, students, and hobbyists. > > This message will be repeated on the Monday before the meeting. > If there are any items for the agenda, email u-u-owner-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org > before then. > > The meeting is always held on the second Wednesday of each month. > > > Special Announcements: > > A mailing list has been set up for this announcement. If you > wish to receive notification via email, go to the web page > https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u/ in order > to subscribe yourself. > > > A map of the area can be found at http://unixunanimous.org where this > message is repeated, and will always contain the correct location > and time of the next meeting. > > _______________________________________________ > u-u mailing list > u-u-sb41XHKw7bdvuSlQZN9BUtrUbErFZevf at public.gmane.org > https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 8 16:03:03 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 12:03:03 -0400 Subject: LDAP how is Failover done? In-Reply-To: <4E3BE8B3.2040401-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E3BE8B3.2040401@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > At first glance I prefer Model 1. Even for the postgres folk and Chris will > correct me if I'm wrong, multi-mastering is a "hard" problem. It's *really* hard for the RDBMS case, basically because foreign keys + triggers provide a large amount of "magic" where there may be more going on behind the scenes when you do an update, and keeping that consistent across nodes becomes much harder. Consider the case where you're managing inventory... - On node #1, you try taking 5 units of widget X out of inventory to satisfy a customer order, while, concurrently, - On node #2, a different customer is supposed to get 15 units of widget X. The DBMS might actually contain (e.g. - enforce) two constraints: a) Can't have less than 0 units of widget X, and, since there were only 7 in stock, both orders can't be handled. b) Customers can't go over their credit limits, and, actually, the customer buying 5 units is over their limit. (In fact, since one customer can't afford to pay, and there's not enough stock to satisfy the other one, the whole set of would-be sales have to get tossed out.) Coordinating the extra "balance bits", and making sure that constraints get satisfied, is what makes multimaster a problem, in the general case. LDAP is a bit of a different story; it certainly doesn't include those sorts of constraints or triggers, with the attendant consequence that people can't model that, and so don't have those sorts of challenges in their systems. As a DIRECTORY service, (the "D" in LDAP), you don't capture balances of things - what you're supposed to record are things that other systems might want to reference. And that fits reasonably well with the ability to 'go multimaster.' Now, the experiences I have had working with LDAP tend to make me wish that I had instead done something less unpleasant, like poking burning needles in my eyes. I don't quite know why this is; I don't think it's a "relational myopia" or anything such. But it appears that those that use LDAP for directories have reasonable success with its multimaster replication model. A data model that'll work successfully with LDAP is likely to be not too unfriendly to multimaster replication. My warning would surround "burning needles in eyes" and any other sorts of "despair-inducing" aspects of its general use and deployment. Once you've got a deployment you're confident with, I gather MM isn't that much more scary. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 8 16:25:01 2011 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 12:25:01 -0400 Subject: LDAP how is Failover done? In-Reply-To: References: <4E3BE8B3.2040401@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Ivan Avery Frey > wrote: > >> At first glance I prefer Model 1. Even for the postgres folk and Chris will >> correct me if I'm wrong, multi-mastering is a "hard" problem. > > It's *really* hard for the RDBMS case, basically because foreign keys > + triggers provide a large amount of "magic" where there may be more > going on behind the scenes when you do an update, and keeping that > consistent across nodes becomes much harder. > Depending on the type replication/clustering, technology/strategy you are using. In Pg for example there stuff like: - Slony (triggers, etc.), - WAL replication (native, warm slave copy) -PgCluster - best IMHO but complex set-up. > Consider the case where you're managing inventory... > [...] In any distributed computing env you have to deal with CAP theorem and a concept known as eventual consistency. If you are selling stuff, it is the business that will drive the consistency model. For your Inventory examples: For sales ------------ Ask any business owner and they'll tell you: make the sale first and then we'll deal with the back order. Other times, you just have to deal with stuff like negative quantities. Imagine your in a supermarket cashier and the teller can't process the sale because the guys in the receiving area did not input the receiving items although they are alreay on the shelves. Beleive it or not I have seen this happen in supermarket systems that don't support negative inventory qtys For maintenance ----------------------- If your inventory is for managing replacement parts in a CMMS/EAM then is completely different story: you better not accept over demand because it may cause a plant shutdown Anyway, using your inventory examples, it is the business that will determine your eventual consistency rules. If you need the best of both worlds, you will probably need to separate the write and read paths. Supposing you are in a Web-based env you can model your inventory items as real RESTful resources, so when you update (POST/PUT) you go through Pg, but when you read (GET,HEAD, etc.) you are looking at a de-normalized version of the data in a noSQL DB such as Couch. This will scale very nicely because if you look at any DB usage you will se that there are about 3-10 SELECTS per every INSERT/UPDATE in a typical RDBMS app. The trick is to update the noSQL DB when the RDBMS is updated and you can do this with simple stored procedures. In today's cloud computing envs we have to start thinking outside the RDBMS paradigm and combine our data layers with the best solution for each case: In terms of CAP - For CA use RDBMS like Pg - For AP use noSQL like Couch, Cassandra etc. - and LDAP where applicable You can link these worlds but you must think in terms of resources (de-normalized in the case of noSQL). LDAP can easily be linked to databases using the operational attribute entryUUID (RFC4530) > > LDAP is a bit of a different story; it certainly doesn't include those > sorts of constraints or triggers, with the attendant consequence that > people can't model that, and so don't have those sorts of challenges > in their systems. > That's because DAP is optimized for READ not for write, just like noSQL > As a DIRECTORY service, (the "D" in LDAP), you don't capture balances > of things - what you're supposed to record are things that other > systems might want to reference. ?And that fits reasonably well with > the ability to 'go multimaster.' > Agree, but a much better model is to divide your DIT and use referrals. This is because even with multimaster, or master-slave you will _always_ have a single point of failure. In the multi-master it will will be your LDAP proxy/balancer > Now, the experiences I have had working with LDAP tend to make me wish > that I had instead done something less unpleasant, like poking burning > needles in my eyes. ?I don't quite know why this is; I don't think > it's a "relational myopia" or anything such. > LDAP is just like any other DB. Again you must always weigh in the cost/benefit of every solution. Master/Slave with a warm standby and a downtime of a few minutes is probably fine for any organization. Heck, if they've put up with _hours_ downtime using MS solutions till now, I agree w/ you the cost/benefit if setting up a MM LDAP is probably not worth it. Best, -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 8 16:48:06 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 12:48:06 -0400 Subject: LDAP how is Failover done? In-Reply-To: References: <4E3BE8B3.2040401@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Alejandro Imass wrote: > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Ivan Avery Frey >> wrote: >> >>> At first glance I prefer Model 1. Even for the postgres folk and Chris will >>> correct me if I'm wrong, multi-mastering is a "hard" problem. >> >> It's *really* hard for the RDBMS case, basically because foreign keys >> + triggers provide a large amount of "magic" where there may be more >> going on behind the scenes when you do an update, and keeping that >> consistent across nodes becomes much harder. >> > > Depending on the type replication/clustering, technology/strategy you > are using. In Pg for example there stuff like: > > - Slony (triggers, etc.), > - WAL replication (native, warm slave copy) > -PgCluster - best IMHO but complex set-up. I'm fairly familiar with all three (I'm one of the 'core' devs for Slony!); none of these are properly multimaster replication systems. >> Consider the case where you're managing inventory... >> > > [...] > > In any distributed computing env you have to deal with CAP theorem and > a concept known as eventual consistency. "Eventual Consistency" is one of the strategies for coping with implications of CAP. It's more or less an altogether alternative to multimaster replication. > If you are selling stuff, it is the business that will drive the > consistency model. For your Inventory examples: > > For sales > ------------ > Ask any business owner and they'll tell you: make the sale first and > then we'll deal with the back order. > Other times, you just have to deal with stuff like negative quantities. > Imagine your in a supermarket cashier and the teller can't process the > sale because the guys in the receiving area did not input the > receiving items although they are alreay on the shelves. > Beleive it or not I have seen this happen in supermarket systems that > don't support negative inventory qtys The devil's in the business details. > Anyway, using your inventory examples, it is the business that will > determine your eventual consistency rules. Right. For the grocery store, there's enough shrinkage that you can't depend on an inventory system having authoritative information in it. That's a "technical" aspect, but not of a computing sort. Rather, "technically," food goes bad for a number of reasons that haven't much to do with computers. And the fuzziness is actually handled pretty appropriately: a grocery store's computers will use inventory information to control re-ordering, but it'll be pretty irrelevant to purchasing. If a customer has a block of Gouda cheese in their shopping cart, then it's pretty irrelevant what inventory the system imagines there is of Gouda cheese. The case I described wouldn't happen with a grocery store. > If you need the best of both worlds, you will probably need to > separate the write and read paths. Supposing you are in a Web-based > env you can model your inventory items as real RESTful resources, so > when you update (POST/PUT) you go through Pg, but when you read > (GET,HEAD, etc.) you are looking at a de-normalized version of the > data in a noSQL DB such as Couch. This will scale very nicely because > if you look at any DB usage you will se that there are about 3-10 > SELECTS per every INSERT/UPDATE in a typical RDBMS app. The trick is > to update the noSQL DB when the RDBMS is updated and you can do this > with simple stored procedures. It would be pretty plausible, in a grocery store case, to have three sorts of databases: a) An LDAP system, with a node at each store, feeding from a master node at HQ, which associates UPC codes with prices and descriptions (and probably tax data). b) Some sort of "message queueing" system which collects store data to push to HQ: i) When customers buy stuff, record the cash register information of what they purchased, and for how much ii) When stock comes in, record what's delivered to the store iii) When stock folk count cans and such, record how much inventory is in stock c) At head office, they might have several RDBMS-based systems to deal with: i) Accounting for purchases and sales ii) Managing prices (which then feeds to the LDAP "master") iii) Inventory management i) and iii) feed off of the data that comes in from the stores, and then determine what should get delivered to stores. There's not any particular value, in this context, for multimaster replication. It's pretty hierarchical, head office being "master" of everything. The business case for multimaster LDAP is a bit different. A characteristic case would be where an organization wants integrated control over a number of systems that feed off of LDAP, and has several locations, each of which is sufficiently "trusted" to be considered an authority.. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 8 17:27:51 2011 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 13:27:51 -0400 Subject: LDAP how is Failover done? In-Reply-To: References: <4E3BE8B3.2040401@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Alejandro Imass wrote: >> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Ivan Avery Frey [..] > A characteristic case would be where an organization wants integrated > control over a number of systems that feed off of LDAP, and has > several locations, each of which is sufficiently "trusted" to be > considered an authority.. Yes indeed a good case for MM. But in your opinion isn't better to delegate control and distribute the different parts of the DIT where required instead of replicating the whole DIT to the remote sites. I _think_ this MM ideas come mostly from MS AD's ways of doing things instead of properly defining a distributed DIT and use referrals or chaining instead? When people come from the MS AD world they usually see the Directory as a simple People, Computers, and Groups DIT structure, instead of a rich DIT that combines the best of the X500 org-based pattern with the DNS pattern. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 9 21:49:34 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 17:49:34 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer Message-ID: For those not on Facebook (and/or not connected to Jim Mercer), Jim Mercer posted the following about Unix Unanimous regular Grant Officer on Facebook: --------------------------------------- Grant had a motorcycle accident while on vacation in Thailand. He is currently in a coma in a hospital in Phuket. His brother is enroute to see to his care. Those are the details I have at the moment. Grant needs your positive vibes, please send. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 9 15:30:53 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 11:30:53 -0400 Subject: Looking for hard to find audio/video cable Message-ID: <4E4152AD.3050708@ve3syb.ca> Greetings everyone. This might be a bit off topic but I'm hoping someone on this list might be able to help me track down a local source for an audio/video cable I need to connect a small pocket camcorder to a pico projector. The ends need to be male mini phone connectors, 4-pole, 2.5mm on one end 3.5mm on the other. As to length, 3 foot would be plenty. The following URL shows the type of cable I need: http://www.kvconnection.com/product-p/k-254m354m-12.htm I've heard this type of cable can be used with iPods or some cell phones but the Best Buy at Markville Mall (the closest store to me) doesn't carry anything like it. I don't drive so I'm looking for a store along Highway 7, or one that does mail order. I can get one via eBay from a seller in Hong Kong, from a place in China, or someone else in Australia ($35 shipping), but there should be some place to get such a cable in Markham or the GTA. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 9 16:26:39 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 12:26:39 -0400 Subject: LDAP how is Failover done? In-Reply-To: References: <4E3BE8B3.2040401@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Alejandro Imass wrote: > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Alejandro Imass wrote: >>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Ivan Avery Frey > > [..] > >> A characteristic case would be where an organization wants integrated >> control over a number of systems that feed off of LDAP, and has >> several locations, each of which is sufficiently "trusted" to be >> considered an authority.. > > > Yes indeed a good case for MM. But in your opinion isn't better to > delegate control and distribute the different parts of the DIT where > required instead of replicating the whole DIT to the remote sites. I > _think_ this MM ideas come mostly from MS AD's ways of doing things > instead of properly defining a distributed DIT and use referrals or > chaining instead? When people come from the MS AD world they usually > see the Directory as a simple People, Computers, and Groups DIT > structure, instead of a rich DIT that combines the best of the X500 > org-based pattern with the DNS pattern. I haven't had *any* exposure to Microsoft "AD", so that's certainly not related to my thinking. Rather, I'm not keen to need to capture changes in a multiplicity of places when it can be captured just once, thereby eliminating that redundancy of capture. In my environment, we have several data centres, and while services are always being run in one or another of them, there is a quite conscious agnosticism as to where those services *ought* to be, as one of the purposes to the multiplicity is the ability to potentially failover services to a different site. Supposing we assume 3 sites, and a number of services that are supposed to be able to be shifted between those sites. For latency purposes, there certainly needs to be an LDAP server at each site, and for this to cope with failover, there needs to be replication of data from all 3 sites to all the "other" sites. If we were to to use your approach of delegating control, then I think we'd need to have 4 LDAP "masters": - 1 for centralized data across all sites - 3, one at each site, to capture the data "mastered" at that site. And that presumably turns into 12 LDAP servers, once the data gets replicated to the various destinations (failover, don'tcha know! :-)). This also introduces the need to debate, for any given piece of information, which of the 4 LDAP servers should be used to capture that information. And it introduces the risk that, if anyone gets confused in that debate, different states of that data might get captured on different LDAP masters, because one person thought it should go on "Global Master" and another thought it should go on "New York Master". (Worst case is where both at least seem to "get it right," and processes start depending on having this data synchronized on multiple masters.) Managing 8 replicas rather than 2 doesn't seem to be a big improvement to me. And having to puzzle over which, of 4 LDAP masters, should be used to store a piece of information seems like at least a 4-fold worsening of things. Particularly not when 80% of the sysadmins, for *all* these sites, are sitting in the same room. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 08:39:19 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 04:39:19 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? Message-ID: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> What I'm looking for... * unlocked Android (so I don't have to root it) * real USB and SD ports (not the "micro" versions) * decent camera * I'm willing to get a wifi-only version. If I need full internet, I'll get a WInd Mobile data stick. I have a candy-bar cellphone already. 1999 called, but they're not getting it back . * Motorola Xoom looks best so far, but I don't know them all Anything else to look for? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 12:01:47 2011 From: jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jarl Stefansson) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 08:01:47 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: <20110811083919.GA12057-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Might want to take a look at the Asus Eee Pad Transformer, with the dock you get a full keyboard turning it into a netbook of sorts. The tablet is the same price as the Motorola for 16/32GB versions but the dockable keyboard/battery is another $150 if you want it. Jarl On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:39 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?What I'm looking for... > * unlocked Android (so I don't have to root it) > * real USB and SD ports (not the "micro" versions) > * decent camera > * I'm willing to get a wifi-only version. ?If I need full internet, I'll > ?get a WInd Mobile data stick. ?I have a candy-bar cellphone already. > ?1999 called, but they're not getting it back . > * Motorola Xoom looks best so far, but I don't know them all > > ?Anything else to look for? > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Regards, Jarl Stefansson jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org +1-647-869-6908 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 12:06:42 2011 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 05:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: <20110811083919.GA12057-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1313064402.24980.YahooMailClassic@web88601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 8/11/11, Walter Dnes wrote: > ? What I'm looking for... > * unlocked Android (so I don't have to root it) > * real USB and SD ports (not the "micro" versions) > * decent camera > * I'm willing to get a wifi-only version.? If I need > full internet, I'll > ? get a WInd Mobile data stick.? I have a > candy-bar cellphone already. > ? 1999 called, but they're not getting it back > . > * Motorola Xoom looks best so far, but I don't know them > all > > ? Anything else to look for? Keyboard docking station? HDMI out? I recommend the ASUS Eee Transformer. With the docking station. The docking station is a keyboard, SD card port, 2 USB ports and additional battery. I use my Samsung Galaxy as a AP when I need the Internet. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 14:08:13 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 10:08:13 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: <1313064402.24980.YahooMailClassic-n30Hj28tiemvYMxfvLqCK1Z8N9CAUha/QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <1313064402.24980.YahooMailClassic@web88601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 11 August 2011 08:06, Stephen wrote: > --- On Thu, 8/11/11, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> ? What I'm looking for... >> * unlocked Android (so I don't have to root it) >> * real USB and SD ports (not the "micro" versions) >> * decent camera >> * I'm willing to get a wifi-only version.? If I need >> full internet, I'll >> ? get a WInd Mobile data stick.? I have a >> candy-bar cellphone already. >> ? 1999 called, but they're not getting it back >> . >> * Motorola Xoom looks best so far, but I don't know them >> all >> >> ? Anything else to look for? > > Keyboard docking station? ?HDMI out? > > I recommend the ASUS Eee Transformer. With the docking station. > > The docking station is a keyboard, SD card port, 2 USB ports and additional battery. > > I use my Samsung Galaxy as a AP when I need the Internet. I own a Asus Eee Transformer Tablet with keyboard, and I highly recommend it. It's not "unlocked," and good luck finding any tablet that is. I haven't rooted mine yet as the methods I've seen have been dodgy (I suppose they all are as they are, by their nature, security exploits) ... and the main one was going to wipe all data from the tablet. Asus has been quite prompt with updates, and I think I'm currently running the very latest version of Android (I'm now seeing new features that don't exist in older versions). My one frustration has been that I can't remap the keyboard: I'm a Dvorak user, and no one has offered a Dvorak keyboard map except via rooting the tablet. To address your points: - no, it's not unlocked - the "real" USB and SD ports are only on the keyboard: the tablet itself has microSD and no USB - the camera will, outside on a very sunny day, occasionally take good pictures: again, good luck finding any tablet with a "good" camera. Take a look at http://www.gilesorr.com/photography/201107/ - it's my most recent photo gallery, and several of the pictures (the ones whose names DON'T end in "OlympusFE26") are taken with the tablet camera. - the Transformer isn't available with phone data: it's wi-fi only - pretty much all reviewers thought the Transformer was substantially better than the Xoom, and personally I would probably have taken the Transformer anyway because of the keyboard As a closing note, with the keyboard attached the thing closes up like a netbook, and is in almost all ways indistinguishable from a netbook. It really does "transform," which also conveniently protects the screen (mine came with no case at all, I recycled a 10" neoprene netbook case that doesn't quite fit right). -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 14:31:40 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 10:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: <20110811083919.GA12057-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | * real USB and SD ports (not the "micro" versions) I'm not sure which have that. On top of that you may want to think of two kinds of USB ports: host and device. The Asus Transformer has a full sized host port I think. Never used it. To get a full sized SD, you need to buy the keyboard. The Asus Transformer keyboard is interesting. Bad and good points: - expensive ($150; $100 if you get it bundled with the Transformer) - some vendors sell only the bilingual keyboard which might throw you off - bulky: seems to double the size of the Transformer + protects the screen -- may no longer need a case/sleeve + adds full-size SD slot + more connectivity options (which I don't remember) + adds battery capacity + adds specific-to-Android keys that regular Bluetooth keyboards probably don't have. And a touchpad (odd concept in a tablet). | * decent camera It all depends on what you mean by decent. All are fixed focus, no flash, as far as I know. Not really decent. But useful. And some have better specs (megapixels) than others. | * I'm willing to get a wifi-only version. If I need full internet, I'll | get a WInd Mobile data stick. I have a candy-bar cellphone already. | 1999 called, but they're not getting it back . A datastick might not be a good way to go -- awkward, power sucking, expensive. Think hard about whether you want non-WiFi connectivity. I have used my iPad with a WiFi hotspot created by my Android cellphone. Useful but imperfect (may use a lot of battery power; connectivity seemed to go away when the phone decides to sleep; haven't used it enough to debug). | * Motorola Xoom looks best so far, but I don't know them all | | Anything else to look for? Funny as it sounds, I think size should be your first decision. A 10" tablet is probably way more useful than a 7" one. A 7" tablet is way more portable than a 10" one. Until you have one, it is hard to know how you'd use one. So I'll tell you how we use these things. We have two 10" tablets (my iPad, my wife's Asus Transformer). They are great around the house. I throw the iPad in my briefcase when I'm going out with a briefcase. Otherwise, it stays at home. My Android phone (which I don't (yet?) actually use as a phone) is much less usable, but I very often carry it when outside the house since it is so portable. I was really tempted a few months ago by the Color Nook. Inexpensive, small, reasonably powerful. I'm not sure if it is still a good choice -- a lot of new things have shown up since then. Web browsing on the iPad is a joy. Even though the screen is smaller than my desktop screen, the fluidity of resizing and scrolling make up for that. Flash is a problem, but I'm used to that -- none of my normal machines run Flash. Typing on the iPad is not something I want to do very much of. ssh works but is fairly painful. We have a Bluetooth keyboard that works with the tablets. We think we'll use it with the Transformer for portable-around-the-house data-entry but that is yet to be seen. Summary: choosing size is an important trade-off. You are the best one to guess which would work best for you. BTW, I haven't rooted our iPad, Transformer, or Android phone. I haven't learned of a reason why it would be worth my bother. I have hacked other things, so it isn't that I'm incapable. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 15:34:10 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 11:34:10 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 11 August 2011 10:31, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | * decent camera > > It all depends on what you mean by decent. ?All are fixed focus, no > flash, as far as I know. ?Not really decent. ?But useful. ?And some > have better specs (megapixels) than others. I have to disagree: the Transformer camera is definitely NOT "fixed focus." It will focus down to half an inch and possibly less, as you'll see from my flower photos referenced earlier in this thread. I believe it's fixed focal length: it zooms, but I think it's digital not mechanical. Is that what you meant? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 16:37:10 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 12:37:10 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > For those not on Facebook (and/or not connected to Jim Mercer), Jim > Mercer posted the following about Unix Unanimous regular Grant Officer > on Facebook: > > --------------------------------------- > > Grant had a motorcycle accident while on vacation in Thailand. > > He is currently in a coma in a hospital in Phuket. > > His brother is enroute to see to his care. > > Those are the details I have at the moment. > > Grant needs your positive vibes, please send. An update from Jim Mercer: ------------------------------- Grant's brother has been to the hospital and seen him. He remains unconscious, but the doctors are giving a good prognosis for recovery. With his facial injuries, he will have some challenges ahead, but knowing Grant, he'll work it out. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 17:44:44 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 13:44:44 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 10:31 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | * Motorola Xoom looks best so far, but I don't know them all > | > | ? Anything else to look for? > > Funny as it sounds, I think size should be your first decision. > > A 10" tablet is probably way more useful than a 7" one. > A 7" tablet is way more portable than a 10" one. That's definitely a good way to start the thinking process, and in informing your preferences. For sure, 7" is "way more portable," and 10" is "way more useful," and represents a trade-off that deserves some thought. > BTW, I haven't rooted our iPad, Transformer, or Android phone. ?I > haven't learned of a reason why it would be worth my bother. ?I have > hacked other things, so it isn't that I'm incapable. The "latest & greatest" Android tablets aren't as interesting to highly customize at this point, as the "Android 3" stuff hasn't been released as source (AFAIK), so people aren't doing highly customized builds of such; they are only doing "shallow" customizations. Root access has a few notable benefits: 1. Ability to do a *total* backup of *right well everything*. http://www.appbrain.com/app/titanium-backup-%E2%98%85-root/com.keramidas.TitaniumBackup 2. Accessing *everything*, so you can trim out those images / ringtones / ... that the vendor forced onto the device that you don't want cluttering up storage space. 3. There are some other apps that need root; less obviously useful :-(. http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/04/15/rooting-explained-top-5-benefits-of-rooting-your-android-phone/ It meant that I could put CM7 onto my Viewsonic gTablet, which is generally Android 2.3 + some stuff, a lot better than what came from the vendor. The "custom" Android replacements are all based on version 2.3 of the platform, which is missing the spectrum of 3.0 enhancements. There's a pretty compelling argument to be made that Android 3 isn't "open source," and hence is something we probably ought to feel at least a little bit uncomfortable about. I'm definitely not thrilled about the notion that the only place I can get *real* upgrades for an ASUS Transformer is ASUS. That seems not terribly different from buying an iPad, with the difference that I tend to think Apple's got a more competent set of developers than ASUS has. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 17:50:49 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 13:50:49 -0400 Subject: [u-u] Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11 August 2011 12:37, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> For those not on Facebook (and/or not connected to Jim Mercer), Jim >> Mercer posted the following about Unix Unanimous regular Grant Officer >> on Facebook: >> >> --------------------------------------- >> >> Grant had a motorcycle accident while on vacation in Thailand. >> >> He is currently in a coma in a hospital in Phuket. >> >> His brother is enroute to see to his care. >> >> Those are the details I have at the moment. >> >> Grant needs your positive vibes, please send. > > An update from Jim Mercer: > > ------------------------------- > > Grant's brother has been to the hospital and seen him. > > He remains unconscious, but the doctors are giving a good prognosis > for recovery. > > With his facial injuries, he will have some challenges ahead, but > knowing Grant, he'll work it out. I traveled in Southeast Asia for a while and had some contact with the hospitals in Thailand. I agree with the travel doctor I visited before I left: the hospitals in Thailand are first rate, possibly better than Canada. He'll get good care there. I hope he recovers well. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 18:35:59 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:35:59 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110811183559.GQ8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 11:34:10AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > I have to disagree: the Transformer camera is definitely NOT "fixed > focus." It will focus down to half an inch and possibly less, as > you'll see from my flower photos referenced earlier in this thread. I > believe it's fixed focal length: it zooms, but I think it's digital > not mechanical. Is that what you meant? Fixed focal length means fixed focus. Focus has nothing to do with zoom. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wheagy1-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 20:35:55 2011 From: wheagy1-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Bill Heagy) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 16:35:55 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: <20110811183559.GQ8564-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110811183559.GQ8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E443D2B.1080905@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 11:34:10AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >> I have to disagree: the Transformer camera is definitely NOT "fixed >> focus." It will focus down to half an inch and possibly less, as >> you'll see from my flower photos referenced earlier in this thread. I >> believe it's fixed focal length: it zooms, but I think it's digital >> not mechanical. Is that what you meant? > > Fixed focal length means fixed focus. > no - you change the focus by moving the lens relative to the "film" > Focus has nothing to do with zoom. (other than that it's hard to design a lens that doesn't change the focus when you change the focal length) > -- Bill Heagy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 23:15:23 2011 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 19:15:23 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 11 August 2011 11:34, Giles Orr wrote: > I have to disagree: the Transformer camera is definitely NOT "fixed > focus." ?It will focus down to half an inch and possibly less, as > you'll see from my flower photos referenced earlier in this thread. ?I > believe it's fixed focal length: it zooms, but I think it's digital > not mechanical. ?Is that what you meant? On 11 August 2011 14:35, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Fixed focal length means fixed focus. Fixed focal length and fixed focus are two different things. If the lens doesn't do optical zoom then it has a fixed focal length. A fixed focal length lens can still have variable focus. E.g. A common standard lens for an SLR camera is a 50mm single (fixed) focal length lens but it still has a ring (and/or electronics plus a motor) to allow it to be focused to a given distance (focal point). When viewing images from the Transformer camera in real time (video or "viewfinder" mode) and you pan from a distant object to a close object , does the close object first appear blurry and then snap into focus, while distant objects get blurry? If so, then the camera is not fixed focus and has auto focus. However, if close objects and distant objects are always all in focus at the same time, then the lens is probably fixed focus and has the focal point set to the hyperfocal distance. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 23:29:19 2011 From: ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org (Ken Heard) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 19:29:19 -0400 Subject: [u-u] Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E4465CF.6090703@heard.name> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Giles Orr wrote: > I traveled in Southeast Asia for a while and had some contact with the > hospitals in Thailand. I agree with the travel doctor I visited > before I left: the hospitals in Thailand are first rate, possibly > better than Canada. He'll get good care there. I hope he recovers > well. As someone who spends four months of the year in Thailand I can attest that not all are first rate. Over the years I have had bad experiences in two, and my spouse in two others. There is only one in Bangkok we would use, Bumrungrad. In Pattaya the only one we would use is the Bangkok-Pattaya Hospital. I have never been to Phuket, but I have been told that there is a good one there; let us hope he is at that one. I learned the hard way *never* to ride a motor bike in Thailand, either by myself or on a motor bike taxi with a Kamikaze driver. Every Thai person I know has been involved in at least one motor bike accident. Ken Heard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAk5EZc4ACgkQlNlJzOkJmTeL9wCfSR3Umw8KuWHKzyoDg2jifPNz A54AnA8SlG+W0YkAkzF5egVrPMviNJ1F =W1Nl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 11 23:29:40 2011 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 19:29:40 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Scott Allen wrote: > On 11 August 2011 11:34, Giles Orr wrote: >> I have to disagree: the Transformer camera is definitely NOT "fixed >> focus." ?It will focus down to half an inch and possibly less, as In other news, does anyone have a believable release date for the Transformer with 3G (TF101G, I believe). Regards, -- G. Matthew Rice ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? gpg id: EF9AAD20 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 12 02:15:41 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 22:15:41 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: <20110811083919.GA12057-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> Thanks for all the replies. One reason I wanted real USB (real SD nice but not necessary) is that once you have USB, you have access to all peripherals. E.g. keyboard+mouse (on a tablet!), SD reader, USB key, harddrive, etc, etc. I've got a small 1-to-4 USB port-multiplier, so multiple devices can be hung off it simultaneously, if need be. Stupid newbie question alert... how close is Android to linux? I.e. can I download a tarball, uncompress it, and... ./configure --with-various-options && make && make install From reading the web, I'm somewhat leary of stuff on little-known "app-markets". The larger communities (e.g. Cyanaogen Mod) appear to like the Opens Source community I'm used to, but the smaller sites can be dodgy. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 12 12:03:10 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 08:03:10 -0400 Subject: [u-u] Grant Officer In-Reply-To: <4E4465CF.6090703-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E4465CF.6090703@heard.name> Message-ID: <20110812120310.GB23018@watson-wilson.ca> I have friends in Hanoi. He is from Canada and finds the traffic unnerving. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebkogYErN3Y&feature=related -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 12 12:25:24 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 08:25:24 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> For those not on Facebook (and/or not connected to Jim Mercer), Jim >> Mercer posted the following about Unix Unanimous regular Grant Officer >> on Facebook: >> >> --------------------------------------- >> >> Grant had a motorcycle accident while on vacation in Thailand. >> >> He is currently in a coma in a hospital in Phuket. >> >> His brother is enroute to see to his care. >> >> Those are the details I have at the moment. >> >> Grant needs your positive vibes, please send. > > An update from Jim Mercer: > > ------------------------------- > > Grant's brother has been to the hospital and seen him. > > He remains unconscious, but the doctors are giving a good prognosis > for recovery. > > With his facial injuries, he will have some challenges ahead, but > knowing Grant, he'll work it out. Another update via Jim Mercer: --------------------------------------- Another CT scan was done today, and there is a slight improvement in the brain swelling. They are reducing his dependnence on the respirator, to get him breathing on his own more. It is estimated he will continue to be in the ICU for another week. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 12 13:25:10 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 09:25:10 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: <20110812021540.GA12776-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 11 August 2011 22:15, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?Thanks for all the replies. ?One reason I wanted real USB (real SD > nice but not necessary) is that once you have USB, you have access to > all peripherals. ?E.g. keyboard+mouse (on a tablet!), SD reader, USB > key, harddrive, etc, etc. ?I've got a small 1-to-4 USB port-multiplier, > so multiple devices can be hung off it simultaneously, if need be. I don't think this is a good assumption. Just because you can physically plug it in doesn't mean that the device will be understood by the OS. And - partly answering your next question - Android is not Linux. > ?Stupid newbie question alert... how close is Android to linux? ?I.e. > can I download a tarball, uncompress it, and... > > ./configure --with-various-options && make && make install Android uses a mostly Linux kernel. But the graphical interface is radically different, with the majority of programs built in Java. Beyond that I can't tell you much more ... except that "configure && make && make install" is extremely unlikely to work - especially if you don't have root. > ?From reading the web, I'm somewhat leary of stuff on little-known > "app-markets". ?The larger communities (e.g. Cyanaogen Mod) appear to > like the Opens Source community I'm used to, but the smaller sites can > be dodgy. The Chinese Android market(s) are loaded with Trojans, and that's made me quite cautious about the apps I install. I try to stick with ones with thousands of positive reviews. Which guarantees nothing, but helps a little. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 12 15:03:47 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:03:47 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: <20110812021540.GA12776-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 10:15:41PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Thanks for all the replies. One reason I wanted real USB (real SD > nice but not necessary) is that once you have USB, you have access to > all peripherals. E.g. keyboard+mouse (on a tablet!), SD reader, USB > key, harddrive, etc, etc. I've got a small 1-to-4 USB port-multiplier, > so multiple devices can be hung off it simultaneously, if need be. > > Stupid newbie question alert... how close is Android to linux? I.e. > can I download a tarball, uncompress it, and... > > ./configure --with-various-options && make && make install If it's one of the versions google has actually bothered to release, then in theory yes you could. At this point I don't consider it to be Linux. It is based on some version of Linux, but no longer is. It entirely fails at following the common development culture of Linux. > From reading the web, I'm somewhat leary of stuff on little-known > "app-markets". The larger communities (e.g. Cyanaogen Mod) appear to > like the Opens Source community I'm used to, but the smaller sites can > be dodgy. Yeah that one does look interesting. At this point I really hate android. They have managed to kill of all the projects that were actually making linux phones, and at the same time they are not being at all community oriented. They are probably at this point the worst example of how not to do embedded linux development for the long term. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 12 15:18:57 2011 From: peter.king.1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:18:57 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: <20110812150347.GR8564-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110812151857.GA26811@rebma> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 11:03:47AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > At this point I really hate android. They have managed to kill of all > the projects that were actually making linux phones, and at the same time > they are not being at all community oriented. They are probably at this > point the worst example of how not to do embedded linux development for > the long term. Google has repeatedly ignored or sidestepped requests from the open-source community to release its codebase (after they failed to muscle certain changes into the kernel), and they have managed to take over not only the phone market but also the burgeoning tablet market -- all this with a model that is pretty well closed (certainly not user-friendly). The prospects for genuine integration of Linux with telephony, which looked so promising just a few scant years ago, are effectively dead in the water. As for tablets, well, if I'm going to get what amounts to a closed system with "apps" available from some "market" I'll just get it from Apple (which does it better). It isn't only the software; it's how the software fits into the community -- a point Google deliberately chooses to overlook. Their motto may be "Do no evil" but they aren't very good at living up to it. -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 170 St. George Street #521 The University of Toronto (416)-978-4951 ofc Toronto, ON M5R 2M8 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 12 15:51:01 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:51:01 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > On 11 August 2011 22:15, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> ?Stupid newbie question alert... how close is Android to linux? ?I.e. >> can I download a tarball, uncompress it, and... >> >> ./configure --with-various-options && make && make install > > Android uses a mostly Linux kernel. ?But the graphical interface is > radically different, with the majority of programs built in Java. > Beyond that I can't tell you much more ... except that "configure && > make && make install" is extremely unlikely to work - especially if > you don't have root. Agree. Although it's possible to run perl scripts (and others) on Android with SL4A, there's no build system (that I'm aware of anyway). Perl hasn't gathered much traction on the platform because CPAN won't work. I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong. ;-) -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 13 15:13:21 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 11:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: <20110812150347.GR8564-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | At this point I really hate android. They have managed to kill of all | the projects that were actually making linux phones, and at the same time | they are not being at all community oriented. Agreed. HP's WebOS is built on Linux. Not sure if it is at all open -- I expect not. It's not dead yet. Intel and Nokia have Meego which might be somewhat open. As far as Nokia is concerned, it's a dead man walking. Intel appears to hope it is alive. Nokia was supposed to deliver the N9 with Meego but they announced a day or two ago that it won't be released in UK or US. I've heard some good things about the N9 -- perhaps that is bad for Nokia so they want to kill it. Apparently there is a Ubuntu port for the Transformer. I don't know if I trust this, but it is interesting. It can be "native" or on top of the Android kernel. It doesn't smell as if there is a lot of activity. | They are probably at this | point the worst example of how not to do embedded linux development for | the long term. There are a lot of competitors for that title. Many of the embedded are horrible. At least Google does code drops of the the GPLed parts. But their bad behaviour has the greatest impact because of their marketshare and mindshare. They've fooled many into thinking it is open source thereby scorching the earth for real opensource. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 13 16:59:29 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 12:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | Apparently there is a Ubuntu port for the Transformer. See also -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 14 04:11:53 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 00:11:53 -0400 Subject: Assigning different titles to 2 instances of GIMP? Message-ID: <20110814041153.GA26549@waltdnes.org> I'm not even going to try to explain my camera workflow. Let's just say that I need to have 2 instances of GIMP open. Switching to the right instance is painfull, because both instances show up with the same name on the dashboard and on the {ALT}{TAB} menu. Is there an incantation that will allow me to open an instance with a title bar other than the generic "GNU Image Manipulation Program". -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 14 13:56:50 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 09:56:50 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer Message-ID: Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Tomorrow (around 9:am Eastern), they will be operating to replace a faulty inter-cranial pressure monitor, as well as to start on the facial injuries. They have put a TV in grant's room, possibly to encourage sensory input. (if they really want to get him out of bed, they should tune it to Fox News) I am away for a few days, maybe without internet. Please don't take the lack of updates as something other than that. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david.vangeest-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 14 17:17:23 2011 From: david.vangeest-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David van Geest) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 13:17:23 -0400 Subject: OT: hourly contracting rate for a software engineer in GTA Message-ID: Hi all, A little off-topic, but thought this group could provide some good insight. My wife and I are planning to move to Toronto in the next couple months (back to the motherland!). I'm a software engineer, and the plan is for me to keep working on a contract basis for my current employer, who is based in Michigan. I can figure out an hourly wage based on current salary and some expense estimates, but I'm curious as to what the going rate is for contract software work in the GTA. Obviously the type of work and the contractor's level of experience play a large role, so if you have a number, it would be good to see some context. As for me, I do a wide variety of stuff, anything from C on embedded QNX platforms to Rails in the cloud. I'm 3 years out of my Bachelor of Science in Engineering. Any insight into this would be appreciated. Thanks! -David -- David van Geest http://davidvg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 15 16:03:50 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:03:50 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet? In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 11:13:21AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Agreed. Openmoko looked really interesting. > HP's WebOS is built on Linux. Not sure if it is at all open -- I > expect not. It's not dead yet. A proprietary user space running on a linux kernel is even worse than android, which does occationally release sources to its proprietary user space. > Intel and Nokia have Meego which might be somewhat open. As far as > Nokia is concerned, it's a dead man walking. Intel appears to hope it > is alive. Yeah good luck to intel on that. > Nokia was supposed to deliver the N9 with Meego but they announced > a day or two ago that it won't be released in UK or US. > > I've heard some good things about the N9 -- perhaps that is bad for > Nokia so they want to kill it. Well Microsoft paid Nokia a bunch of money to go to WP7, so clearly they are going that way now. Not that Nokia seems to have done anything right in the last few years. WP7 will almost certainly not be an exception to that. Rather sad to see Nokia go, but I think that's what is happening. > Apparently there is a Ubuntu port for the Transformer. I don't know > if I trust this, but it is interesting. It can be "native" or on top > of the Android kernel. > > > > It doesn't smell as if there is a lot of activity. Nope, not really. > There are a lot of competitors for that title. Many of the embedded > are horrible. At least Google does code drops of the the GPLed parts. Eventually. > But their bad behaviour has the greatest impact because of their > marketshare and mindshare. They've fooled many into thinking it is > open source thereby scorching the earth for real opensource. Exactly. And they are open source only by the loosest of definitions. They certainly are not open source in development. Good luck getting anything into android. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 15 16:24:36 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:24:36 -0400 Subject: OT: hourly contracting rate for a software engineer in GTA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110815162436.GB15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 01:17:23PM -0400, David van Geest wrote: > A little off-topic, but thought this group could provide some good insight. > > My wife and I are planning to move to Toronto in the next couple months > (back to the motherland!). I'm a software engineer, and the plan is for me > to keep working on a contract basis for my current employer, who is based in > Michigan. > > I can figure out an hourly wage based on current salary and some expense > estimates, but I'm curious as to what the going rate is for contract > software work in the GTA. Obviously the type of work and the contractor's > level of experience play a large role, so if you have a number, it would be > good to see some context. As for me, I do a wide variety of stuff, anything > from C on embedded QNX platforms to Rails in the cloud. I'm 3 years out of > my Bachelor of Science in Engineering. > > Any insight into this would be appreciated. Thanks! Remember to put aside money for taxes. Remember the lack of benefits and to take that cost into account. Remember there are rules about how much contract work you can do for one customer before you are essentially considered an employee of that company by revenue canada. As for money, I have seen claims as high as "Charger per hour what you would expect to be paid per day if you were working full time". After all contractors have to spend time looking for work, don't necesarily get to charge for all the hours, have to deal with insurance premiums, lack of benefits, accounting, taxes, and lots of other things. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 15 16:29:16 2011 From: jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jarl Stefansson) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:29:16 -0400 Subject: OT: hourly contracting rate for a software engineer in GTA In-Reply-To: <20110815162436.GB15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110815162436.GB15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: A personal rule of thumb for contracting work is to take regular salary and double it, if you are working less than 10 hours per month for that particular customer triple it. Jarl On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 01:17:23PM -0400, David van Geest wrote: >> A little off-topic, but thought this group could provide some good insight. >> >> My wife and I are planning to move to Toronto in the next couple months >> (back to the motherland!). ?I'm a software engineer, and the plan is for me >> to keep working on a contract basis for my current employer, who is based in >> Michigan. >> >> I can figure out an hourly wage based on current salary and some expense >> estimates, but I'm curious as to what the going rate is for contract >> software work in the GTA. ?Obviously the type of work and the contractor's >> level of experience play a large role, so if you have a number, it would be >> good to see some context. ?As for me, I do a wide variety of stuff, anything >> from C on embedded QNX platforms to Rails in the cloud. ?I'm 3 years out of >> my Bachelor of Science in Engineering. >> >> Any insight into this would be appreciated. ?Thanks! > > Remember to put aside money for taxes. > > Remember the lack of benefits and to take that cost into account. > > Remember there are rules about how much contract work you can do for > one customer before you are essentially considered an employee of that > company by revenue canada. > > As for money, I have seen claims as high as "Charger per hour what you > would expect to be paid per day if you were working full time". ?After all > contractors have to spend time looking for work, don't necesarily get > to charge for all the hours, have to deal with insurance premiums, > lack of benefits, accounting, taxes, and lots of other things. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Regards, Jarl Stefansson jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org +1-647-869-6908 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 15 16:34:37 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:34:37 -0400 Subject: Assigning different titles to 2 instances of GIMP? In-Reply-To: <20110814041153.GA26549-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110814041153.GA26549@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110815163437.GC15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 12:11:53AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm not even going to try to explain my camera workflow. Let's just > say that I need to have 2 instances of GIMP open. Switching to the > right instance is painfull, because both instances show up with the same > name on the dashboard and on the {ALT}{TAB} menu. Is there an > incantation that will allow me to open an instance with a title bar > other than the generic "GNU Image Manipulation Program". Given the gimp can handle multiple files at once, I am courious what circumstance would make having two instances useful. Now gtk options (as shown by gimp --help-all) seems to say gimp --name=FooGimp should work, but it does not. Seems the gimp doesn't actually obey the gtk options. Probably because it is multi window and explicitly controls the window titles. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 15 19:09:19 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 15:09:19 -0400 Subject: Assigning different titles to 2 instances of GIMP? In-Reply-To: <20110815163437.GC15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110814041153.GA26549@waltdnes.org> <20110815163437.GC15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I suspect Walt's need for two versions will be something to do with script compatibilty. His workflow is not my workflow, but his workflow is okay ;-) Stewart On 8/15/11, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 12:11:53AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >> I'm not even going to try to explain my camera workflow. Let's just >> say that I need to have 2 instances of GIMP open. Switching to the >> right instance is painfull, because both instances show up with the same >> name on the dashboard and on the {ALT}{TAB} menu. Is there an >> incantation that will allow me to open an instance with a title bar >> other than the generic "GNU Image Manipulation Program". > > Given the gimp can handle multiple files at once, I am courious what > circumstance would make having two instances useful. > > Now gtk options (as shown by gimp --help-all) seems to say gimp > --name=FooGimp should work, but it does not. Seems the gimp doesn't > actually obey the gtk options. Probably because it is multi window and > explicitly controls the window titles. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://scruss.com/blog/ - 73 de VA3PID -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 07:53:39 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 03:53:39 -0400 Subject: Assigning different titles to 2 instances of GIMP? In-Reply-To: References: <20110814041153.GA26549@waltdnes.org> <20110815163437.GC15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110816075339.GB29802@waltdnes.org> I think I've figured out a workaround. On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 03:09:19PM -0400, Stewart Russell wrote > I suspect Walt's need for two versions will be something to do with > script compatibilty. His workflow is not my workflow, but his workflow > is okay ;-) > On 8/15/11, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > Given the gimp can handle multiple files at once, I am courious what > > circumstance would make having two instances useful. What I do is... * go and shoot a bunch of photos somewhere * dump the RAW and JPG files off the camera's SD card to a "saved" directory on my harddrive and do the following loop 1) Open the next .DNG raw file with 1st GIMP instance 2) Decide whether I want to use that photo if not, GOTO 1 otherwise, CONTINUE 3) Tweak/crop as necessary 4) Save as a .PNG to working directory 5) bin the .PNG using imagemagick in a shell script. See binning explanation http://www.noao.edu/outreach/aop/glossary/binning.html The benefits are of binning... - binning by a factor of N reduces noise as if you had used a lower ISO when shooting. E.g. downsizing by 4 means 4309x2868 => 1077x717 for the raw files from my Pentax KX. An ISO 400 shot looks like it was shot as ISO 100. - the local camera club rules say submissions must not exceed X 1024 and Y 768. So I still have to crop the X. If I crop the original image, I might bin by a factor of of 2 or 3 instead. 6) open binned copy of file with 2nd GIMP instance and do final cropping and save as PNG 7) run another shell script that calls imagemagick to do final sharpening and save as JPG (camera club rules). 8) GOTO 1 Note that steps 1 and 6 open files in different directories. An instance of GIMP remembers what directory it last opened a file in. Navigating back and forth between directories can be painful. Sometimes the answer is so simple. My workaround, that I'll try next time, is to symlink all the raw DNG files into the work directory. This results in me working in the work directory only. I can open the "1st instance" using mc (Midnight Commander), and close after saving. The "2nd instance" will be persistant, i.e. I'll close the file window, but not the instance. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 13:10:05 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 09:10:05 -0400 Subject: Assigning different titles to 2 instances of GIMP? In-Reply-To: <20110816075339.GB29802-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110814041153.GA26549@waltdnes.org> <20110815163437.GC15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110816075339.GB29802@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:53 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > > 5) bin the .PNG using imagemagick in a shell script. ?See binning If you feel like digging into a little script-fu, this step could be so easily made into a plugin. There might already be a plugin that will do this. This would mean you could skip the directory changing bit altogether. But there might be something to IM's scaling algorithms you particularly like the look of. cheers, Stewart -- http://scruss.com/blog/ - 73 de VA3PID -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 13:14:50 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 09:14:50 -0400 Subject: NAS for sale Message-ID: I have a Synology DS110j one drive NAS / appliance for sale. It's about a year old, but has seen very little use: I was unable to set up permissions the way I wanted them and eventually stuffed it into storage. It currently sells for $150 at Canada Computers, I'm asking $80 (price becomes negotiable after a few days). Notable features: - SMB - NFS - 1000 Mbps network I've lost track of the manual ... if there was one to start with. If I find it, I'll pass it on to the purchaser. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 14:41:24 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 07:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Language question -- file = variable ? Message-ID: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi all, Is there a language which (natively or not) treats a filename like a variable in memory?? For example, to increment a counter stored in a file, you would write something like ??????? /tmp/counter = /tmp/counter + 1 which involves both read and write to a file.? If it were normal variable, then it would involve read/write to a memory instead. Python is the closest I can think of.? But, you need to create a method for read and another method for write.? And, typing more verbose than I would like. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 14:53:25 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:53:25 -0400 Subject: Language question -- file = variable ? In-Reply-To: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110816145325.GD15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 07:41:24AM -0700, William Park wrote: > Is there a language which (natively or not) treats a filename like a variable in memory?? For example, to increment a counter stored in a file, you would write something like > ??????? /tmp/counter = /tmp/counter + 1 > which involves both read and write to a file.? If it were normal variable, then it would involve read/write to a memory instead. > > Python is the closest I can think of.? But, you need to create a method for read and another method for write.? And, typing more verbose than I would like. So you want to language to open the file, read it, guess that you want it to treat its contents as an integer/hex/whatever and add one to it, then write it back as interger/hex/whatever and flush? That's an awful lot of assumptions for a language to make. I doubt any are silly enough to try that. How about error handling? Disk full, file permissions, file locks, etc? Adding 1 to a variable is something that can't fail, but if you do it to the contents of a file it certainly can. It's just not the same thing at all, and the same syntax makes no sense as a result since you have no way to do error handling with your syntax, and you will need to have error handling for it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard.dice-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 14:55:00 2011 From: richard.dice-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:55:00 -0400 Subject: Language question -- file = variable ? In-Reply-To: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <702D2141-CEA5-412A-97C6-849FC3BB30E5@gmail.com> Consider the CPAN module Tie::File in Perl. Read its docs at search.cpan.org. The only differences between your example and it are: * The filename is not the variable identifier. * The variable is an array, not a scalar (which makes sense considering that files can contain many rows) Cheers, Richard Sent from my iPad On 2011-08-16, at 10:41 AM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there a language which (natively or not) treats a filename like a variable in memory? For example, to increment a counter stored in a file, you would write something like > /tmp/counter = /tmp/counter + 1 > which involves both read and write to a file. If it were normal variable, then it would involve read/write to a memory instead. > > Python is the closest I can think of. But, you need to create a method for read and another method for write. And, typing more verbose than I would like. > > -- > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 15:03:38 2011 From: jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jarl Stefansson) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 11:03:38 -0400 Subject: Language question -- file = variable ? In-Reply-To: <702D2141-CEA5-412A-97C6-849FC3BB30E5-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <702D2141-CEA5-412A-97C6-849FC3BB30E5@gmail.com> Message-ID: How about a bash script? Regards Jarl On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Richard Dice wrote: > Consider the CPAN module Tie::File in Perl. ?Read its docs at search.cpan.org. ?The only differences between your example and it are: > > ?* The filename is not the variable identifier. > ?* The variable is an array, not a scalar (which makes sense considering that files can contain many rows) > > Cheers, > ?Richard > > Sent from my iPad > > On 2011-08-16, at 10:41 AM, William Park wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Is there a language which (natively or not) treats a filename like a variable in memory? ?For example, to increment a counter stored in a file, you would write something like >> ? ? ? ? /tmp/counter = /tmp/counter + 1 >> which involves both read and write to a file. ?If it were normal variable, then it would involve read/write to a memory instead. >> >> Python is the closest I can think of. ?But, you need to create a method for read and another method for write. ?And, typing more verbose than I would like. >> >> -- >> >> William >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Regards, Jarl Stefansson jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org +1-647-869-6908 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david.vangeest-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 15:14:39 2011 From: david.vangeest-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David van Geest) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 11:14:39 -0400 Subject: OT: hourly contracting rate for a software engineer in GTA In-Reply-To: References: <20110815162436.GB15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Jarl and Len, Thanks for the responses. Good points and things to remember, it definitely gives me somewhere to start from. -David -- David van Geest http://davidvg.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 15:16:54 2011 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 11:16:54 -0400 Subject: Language question -- file = variable ? In-Reply-To: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In python you can write a class that has a file descriptor as a member and then define __add__, __subtract__ and other methods BUT: * You can't have slashes in variable names so either you'll need to pass an actual filename when instantiating or do some metaclass trickery that would determine file path from object name, but then you'll have to have your own object naming convention. * It sounds like you're trying to solve a problem in a weir way. What are you trying to solve? * You can always write your own domain-specific language. Sent from my mobile device. On Aug 16, 2011 10:41 AM, "William Park" wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there a language which (natively or not) treats a filename like a variable in memory? For example, to increment a counter stored in a file, you would write something like > /tmp/counter = /tmp/counter + 1 > which involves both read and write to a file. If it were normal variable, then it would involve read/write to a memory instead. > > Python is the closest I can think of. But, you need to create a method for read and another method for write. And, typing more verbose than I would like. > > -- > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 15:27:18 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 11:27:18 -0400 Subject: Assigning different titles to 2 instances of GIMP? In-Reply-To: <20110816075339.GB29802-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110814041153.GA26549@waltdnes.org> <20110815163437.GC15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110816075339.GB29802@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 16 August 2011 03:53, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?I think I've figured out a workaround. > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 03:09:19PM -0400, Stewart Russell wrote >> I suspect Walt's need for two versions will be something to do with >> script compatibilty. His workflow is not my workflow, but his workflow >> is okay ;-) > >> On 8/15/11, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> > >> > Given the gimp can handle multiple files at once, I am courious what >> > circumstance would make having two instances useful. > > ?What I do is... > * go and shoot a bunch of photos somewhere > * dump the RAW and JPG files off the camera's SD card to a "saved" > ?directory on my harddrive > > and do the following loop > > 1) Open the next .DNG raw file with 1st GIMP instance > 2) Decide whether I want to use that photo > ? if not, GOTO 1 > ? otherwise, CONTINUE > 3) Tweak/crop as necessary > 4) Save as a .PNG to working directory > 5) bin the .PNG using imagemagick in a shell script. ?See binning > ? explanation http://www.noao.edu/outreach/aop/glossary/binning.html > ? The benefits are of binning... > ? - binning by a factor of N reduces noise as if you had used a lower > ? ? ISO when shooting. E.g. downsizing by 4 means 4309x2868 => 1077x717 > ? ? for the raw files from my Pentax KX. ?An ISO 400 shot looks like > ? ? it was shot as ISO 100. > ? - the local camera club rules say submissions must not exceed X 1024 > ? ? and Y 768. ?So I still have to crop the X. ?If I crop the original > ? ? image, I might bin by a factor of of 2 or 3 instead. > 6) open binned copy of file with 2nd GIMP instance and do final cropping > ? and save as PNG > 7) run another shell script that calls imagemagick to do final > ? sharpening and save as JPG (camera club rules). > 8) GOTO 1 > > ?Note that steps 1 and 6 open files in different directories. ?An > instance of GIMP remembers what directory it last opened a file in. > Navigating back and forth between directories can be painful. > > ?Sometimes the answer is so simple. ?My workaround, that I'll try next > time, is to symlink all the raw DNG files into the work directory. ?This > results in me working in the work directory only. ?I can open the "1st > instance" using mc (Midnight Commander), and close after saving. ?The > "2nd instance" will be persistant, i.e. I'll close the file window, but > not the instance. My workflow takes the photos from the camera to a dated folder for unedited photos. I then use an image viewer to go through all the photos: I edit a text file, making notes about which photos I want to work on. Then I do the actual editing in GIMP. The middle step is obviously where we differ: my camera produces JPG images, I don't know how Linux image viewer support is for DNG. And you might choose to just create soft links in another directory for the photos you wanted to work on rather than editing a text file - I find the text file useful as future notes. To me it makes more sense to do the choosing stage with a viewer (designed for viewing) rather than an editor (designed for editing) ... but you may be limited by DNG support. Hope this helps. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 15:31:29 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 11:31:29 -0400 Subject: OT: hourly contracting rate for a software engineer in GTA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:17 PM, David van Geest wrote: > Hi all, > A little off-topic, but thought this group could provide some good insight. > My wife and I are planning to move to Toronto in the next couple months > (back to the motherland!). ?I'm a software engineer, and the plan is for me > to keep working on a contract basis for my current employer, who is based in > Michigan. > I can figure out an hourly wage based on current salary and some expense > estimates, but I'm curious as to what the going rate is for contract > software work in the GTA. ?Obviously the type of work and the contractor's > level of experience play a large role, so if you have a number, it would be > good to see some context. ?As for me, I do a wide variety of stuff, anything > from C on embedded QNX platforms to Rails in the cloud. ?I'm 3 years out of > my Bachelor of Science in Engineering. > Any insight into this would be appreciated. ?Thanks! You can likely work backwards from a seemingly-analogous salary to work out what the rate ought to be. Supposing a salary of $80000 is what is being paid for salaried staff with similar qualifications, then consider... *] (/ 80000 (* 50 40)) 40 An hourly rate of $40/hr is thus equivalent to $80K. However, there are several disanalogies that point to charging rather more than $40/hr: 1. Salaried staff commonly have additional benefits that should be accounted for. 1.1 Vacation pay of at least 4% 1.2 Medical benefits are often non-zero; likely add 5-10% 1.3 You'll be paying "employer's share" of CPP on your wages yourself; you'll want to check rates, but I think that's not distant from 4% So, if you are anticipating that the contract will be full-time equivalent for the year, then it's likely that $50 might be plausible, although probably it should be somewhat higher than that to account for the fact that the contractee is free to let you go at almost a moment's notice. 2. If it's pretty regular but part-time, then you should be bouncing it up by some moderate increment (I'd WAG at 20%) to account for the fact that you need to be doing extra logistical work to deal with a multiplicity of clients. 3. If they call today, wanting to pull you in for 4 hours on Thursday morning, you ought to bounce up the multiple to at least 2x or 3x to account for the need for *sudden* scheduling, as you may need to cancel work elsewhere to satisfy their requirement. None of this should be too surprising, and the only *major* variance I'd expect between here and Michigan would be that down there, health benefit fees are likely to be radically higher than is the case here. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 15:44:02 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 11:44:02 -0400 Subject: OT: hourly contracting rate for a software engineer in GTA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E4A9042.1000507@gmail.com> Also as a contractor , O&E/Pro is 2k$/yr for 1M/1M coverage on normal programming work (i know as this is what i pay). You get paid for lunch as salary, not usually as contract. You don't get stat holidays, sick days, personal days. You don't get a bonus. You have to pay for your own computer, as well as time to do updates, installs, recoveries, etc,etc,etc. You have to pay for you phone, cell, pager, etc, etc. Salary / hr (as below) say 40$/hr, contract should be at least 55$, but 60-80 are more the norm (i.e. 50%-100% more then $/hr salary). Fortunately you don't have to worry about this formula, as its a free market, you'll get the best that you can competitively shop around for :) In California, out of school B.Sc grads with 0 exp. are getting equiv. 160k$/yr salary. So as a contractor (in Toronto) with degree and exp. shot for 1/5M - 1/3M a year. (semi serious/semi joking .... its definitely possible if you can get non-stop hours). -tl On 08/16/2011 11:31 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:17 PM, David van Geest > wrote: >> Hi all, >> A little off-topic, but thought this group could provide some good insight. >> My wife and I are planning to move to Toronto in the next couple months >> (back to the motherland!). I'm a software engineer, and the plan is for me >> to keep working on a contract basis for my current employer, who is based in >> Michigan. >> I can figure out an hourly wage based on current salary and some expense >> estimates, but I'm curious as to what the going rate is for contract >> software work in the GTA. Obviously the type of work and the contractor's >> level of experience play a large role, so if you have a number, it would be >> good to see some context. As for me, I do a wide variety of stuff, anything >> from C on embedded QNX platforms to Rails in the cloud. I'm 3 years out of >> my Bachelor of Science in Engineering. >> Any insight into this would be appreciated. Thanks! > You can likely work backwards from a seemingly-analogous salary to > work out what the rate ought to be. > > Supposing a salary of $80000 is what is being paid for salaried staff > with similar qualifications, then consider... > > *] (/ 80000 (* 50 40)) > 40 > > An hourly rate of $40/hr is thus equivalent to $80K. However, there > are several disanalogies that point to charging rather more than > $40/hr: > > 1. Salaried staff commonly have additional benefits that should be > accounted for. > > 1.1 Vacation pay of at least 4% > 1.2 Medical benefits are often non-zero; likely add 5-10% > 1.3 You'll be paying "employer's share" of CPP on your wages yourself; > you'll want to check rates, but I think that's not distant from 4% > > So, if you are anticipating that the contract will be full-time > equivalent for the year, then it's likely that $50 might be plausible, > although probably it should be somewhat higher than that to account > for the fact that the contractee is free to let you go at almost a > moment's notice. > > 2. If it's pretty regular but part-time, then you should be bouncing > it up by some moderate increment (I'd WAG at 20%) to account for the > fact that you need to be doing extra logistical work to deal with a > multiplicity of clients. > > 3. If they call today, wanting to pull you in for 4 hours on Thursday > morning, you ought to bounce up the multiple to at least 2x or 3x to > account for the need for *sudden* scheduling, as you may need to > cancel work elsewhere to satisfy their requirement. > > None of this should be too surprising, and the only *major* variance > I'd expect between here and Michigan would be that down there, health > benefit fees are likely to be radically higher than is the case here. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 16:38:48 2011 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 12:38:48 -0400 Subject: LDAP how is Failover done? In-Reply-To: References: <4E3BE8B3.2040401@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> [..] >> >>> A characteristic case would be where an organization wants integrated >>> control over a number of systems that feed off of LDAP, and has >>> several locations, each of which is sufficiently "trusted" to be >>> considered an authority.. >> >> >> Yes indeed a good case for MM. But in your opinion isn't better to >> delegate control and distribute the different parts of the DIT where >> required instead of replicating the whole DIT to the remote sites. I >> _think_ this MM ideas come mostly from MS AD's ways of doing things >> instead of properly defining a distributed DIT and use referrals or >> chaining instead? When people come from the MS AD world they usually >> see the Directory as a simple People, Computers, and Groups DIT >> structure, instead of a rich DIT that combines the best of the X500 >> org-based pattern with the DNS pattern. > > I haven't had *any* exposure to Microsoft "AD", so that's certainly > not related to my thinking. > I wasn't implying that you had! It's just that many multi-master requirements are not justified IMHO, they just follow the latest FAD imposed by MS or whoever. Many LDAP implementations are little more than centralized user/pass and in many cases only have LDAP because some software requires it (e.g. IT Asset mgmnt solution, BI package, ERP, etc.), so they could care less about good directory design and implementations strategies. For them it's just a necessary evil. Other times, LDAP is just there because of centralized mgmnt of Windoze envs using MS AD, but it's not really LDAP it's just MS AD. Some folks like to replace that with OpenLDAP+Samba but whilst it's a great move to get more Open Source in the organization, I think that is actually negative for both sides. For the Windoze side, Samba simply doesn't provide all the bells and whistles of MS AD, well not Samba 3 ate least and not with a lot of work. For the OpenLDAP side, it's negative because it limit's the powers of LDAP with a flat and poor DIT structure. It would be much better to create a real and rich LDAP server and keep using MS AD as slave. Furthermore, I think that many LDAP installations don't even consider referrals and continuations. For example it would be stupid IMHO to create a government-wide multi-master set-up, instead of creating independent inter-linked trees for each branch/dept/office. Again, I think that every implementation should model specific to their needs, instead of trying to adopt a model "just because". Multi-master, Master-Slave and distributed models need to be driven by business needs rather than technical ones. Usually, the more de-centralized and monolithic the better, but that is of course, not always the case. > In my environment, we have several data centres, and while services > are always being run in one or another of them, there is a quite > conscious agnosticism as to where those services *ought* to be, as one > of the purposes to the multiplicity is the ability to potentially > failover services to a different site. > Absolutely! In your case multi-master is more than justified and makes sense. But, my experience has been more on the SMB and govt side where many require multi-master when it's really not justified, and just because MS AD does it doesn't make it good! Furthermore, they use multi-master for all the wrong reasons, for example to have redundancy in a same physical location, where a simple master-slave solution would suffice. Note, that up to your posts, I didn't have any example where multi-master actually made sense, so it's been very enlightening indeed. -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 17:36:42 2011 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:36:42 -0400 Subject: Assigning different titles to 2 instances of GIMP? In-Reply-To: <20110816075339.GB29802-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110814041153.GA26549@waltdnes.org> <20110815163437.GC15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110816075339.GB29802@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110816173641.GP986@adb.ca> Walter Dnes wrote: > [ combination of alternate Gimp and Imagemagick steps ] Note that Gimp has scripting, so common sequences in your workflow should be amenable to automation, and it ought to be able to do nearly anything Imagemagick can do. I'd be looking to do it all in one trip in Gimp, from loading the raw image to saving in the desired end format, and cut out especially the intermediate trip to Imagemagick and back. (I use shell image-processing tools only in cases where I don't have need of looking at each image or doing anything manually: mass thumbnailing and that sort of thing.) -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 17:45:22 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:45:22 -0400 Subject: Assigning different titles to 2 instances of GIMP? In-Reply-To: <20110816173641.GP986-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <20110814041153.GA26549@waltdnes.org> <20110815163437.GC15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110816075339.GB29802@waltdnes.org> <20110816173641.GP986@adb.ca> Message-ID: <4E4AACB2.6010701@utoronto.ca> On 08/16/2011 01:36 PM, Anthony de Boer wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: >> [ combination of alternate Gimp and Imagemagick steps ] > > Note that Gimp has scripting, so common sequences in your workflow should > be amenable to automation, and it ought to be able to do nearly anything > Imagemagick can do. I'd be looking to do it all in one trip in Gimp, > from loading the raw image to saving in the desired end format, and cut > out especially the intermediate trip to Imagemagick and back. > > (I use shell image-processing tools only in cases where I don't have > need of looking at each image or doing anything manually: mass > thumbnailing and that sort of thing.) As a beginning to copying files off my SD cards, I use ufraw-batch to convert all raws into a quick preview JPG. I then view each quickly in eog and I delete the JPG if it isn't something that I like, can salvage, is a bad picture etc. >From there, I have a tiny bash script that simply looks at the raw (DNG, PEF) files on the card. If there is no corresponding JPG, the raw is deleted. Then it's on to actually opening the raw with ufraw and editing in earnest. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 19:02:23 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 15:02:23 -0400 Subject: Language question -- file =?utf-8?Q?=3D_?=variable ? In-Reply-To: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E9E5528273C4C688884A86EE5CF0252@mylesbraithwaite.com> The closest thing I could think of would be PowerShell: $a = (get-content counter.txt) $a + 1 | out-file -encoding ASCII counter.txt Pash (which is a extremely unfortunate name) is a reimplementation of PowerShell for all OS that support Mono. -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org On Tuesday, 16 August, 2011 at 10:41 AM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there a language which (natively or not) treats a filename like a variable in memory? For example, to increment a counter stored in a file, you would write something like > /tmp/counter = /tmp/counter + 1 > which involves both read and write to a file. If it were normal variable, then it would involve read/write to a memory instead. > > Python is the closest I can think of. But, you need to create a method for read and another method for write. And, typing more verbose than I would like. > > -- > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 19:26:19 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 15:26:19 -0400 Subject: Language question -- file = variable ? In-Reply-To: <4E9E5528273C4C688884A86EE5CF0252-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E9E5528273C4C688884A86EE5CF0252@mylesbraithwaite.com> Message-ID: <20110816192619.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 03:02:23PM -0400, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > The closest thing I could think of would be PowerShell: > > $a = (get-content counter.txt) > $a + 1 | out-file -encoding ASCII counter.txt > > Pash (which is a extremely unfortunate name) is a reimplementation of PowerShell for all OS that support Mono. bash (but not likely posix shell): x=`cat counter.txt` echo $((++x)) > counter.txt -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 19:51:26 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 15:51:26 -0400 Subject: Language question -- file = variable ? In-Reply-To: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 10:41 AM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there a language which (natively or not) treats a filename like a variable in memory?? For example, to increment a counter stored in a file, you would write something like > ??????? /tmp/counter = /tmp/counter + 1 > which involves both read and write to a file.? If it were normal variable, then it would involve read/write to a memory instead. > > Python is the closest I can think of.? But, you need to create a method for read and another method for write.? And, typing more verbose than I would like. Databases kind of do that, but I'm not sure you were looking for psql -c "select value from counter_table;" -d mydb psql -c "update counter_table set value = value + 1;" -d mydb :-) Common Lisp is the language where it's most natural to regard variables in this fashion; it has a formal notion of a "place" [1] which is "a form which is suitable for use as a generalized reference." Using some suitable macro expansion, you could have a "place" that is backed by whatever sort of storage you might like, so that a "read reference", my-place would draw the data from storage (where ever that is) and (incf my-place) would increment it by 1, irrespective of where it might be. I don't think I'd be keen to do this with files, per se; if doing this "in shell," I think I'd rather look at something like MongoDB which has an increment method, and ask it to increment object values. That addresses concurrency issues that would be troublesome with using a "plain file." [1] http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/05_aa.htm -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 16 20:28:43 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Language question -- file = variable ? In-Reply-To: References: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1313526523.29255.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Well, not really weird.? Just trying to recycle old solution. :-) Current hype about Facebook's Cassandra and Google's BigTable got me interested.? They are just "sparse matrix", or "key-value" where "key" is multi-dimension.? Familiar spreadsheet is a 2D version.? I'm interested in how, in the past, data moved within a spreadsheet and between spreadsheets.? Of course, you can enter "macro formula" into a cell.? But, what if that formula is stored in a file, like a script?? Taking one step more, what if all cells are broken into files?? Then, you'd have something that's older than SQL.? It's so old that it's new again... I have no idea how Facebook/Google implement theirs behind the scene.? Probably, SQL database for indexing and transaction control, even though they say it's "NoSQL".? -- William >________________________________ >From: Alex Volkov >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 11:16:54 AM >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Language question -- file = variable ? > > >In python you can write a class that has a file descriptor as a member and then define __add__, __subtract__ and other methods BUT: >* You can't have slashes in variable names so either you'll need to pass an actual filename when instantiating or do some metaclass trickery that would determine file path from object name, but then you'll have to have your own object naming convention. >* It sounds like you're trying to solve a problem in a weir way.? What are you trying to solve? >* You can always write your own domain-specific language. > >Sent from my mobile device. >On Aug 16, 2011 10:41 AM, "William Park" wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Is there a language which (natively or not) treats a filename like a variable in memory?? For example, to increment a counter stored in a file, you would write something like >> ??????? /tmp/counter = /tmp/counter + 1 >> which involves both read and write to a file.? If it were normal variable, then it would involve read/write to a memory instead. >> >> Python is the closest I can think of.? But, you need to create a method for read and another method for write.? And, typing more verbose than I would like. >> >> -- >> >> William >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group.??????Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wheagy1-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 17 02:33:30 2011 From: wheagy1-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Bill Heagy) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 22:33:30 -0400 Subject: Language question -- file = variable ? In-Reply-To: <1313526523.29255.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOF+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1313526523.29255.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E4B287A.6060905@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > Well, not really weird. Just trying to recycle old solution. :-) > > Current hype about Facebook's Cassandra and Google's BigTable got me interested. They are just "sparse matrix", or "key-value" where "key" is multi-dimension. Familiar spreadsheet is a 2D version. I'm interested in how, in the past, data moved within a spreadsheet and between spreadsheets. Of course, you can enter "macro formula" into a cell. But, what if that formula is stored in a file, like a script? Taking one step more, what if all cells are broken into files? Then, you'd have something that's older than SQL. It's so old that it's new again... > > > I have no idea how Facebook/Google implement theirs behind the scene. Probably, SQL database for indexing and transaction control, even though they say it's "NoSQL". > To get back to the original question, how about memory-mapped files - as in "mmap (2)"? -- Bill Heagy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 17 17:51:58 2011 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 13:51:58 -0400 Subject: NAS for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E4BFFBE.5050408@ve3syb.ca> On 11-08-16 09:14 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > I have a Synology DS110j one drive NAS / appliance for sale. [snip] > I've lost track of the manual ... if there was one to start with. http://www.synology.com/support/download.php?lang=enu&b=1%20bays&m=DS110j -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 17 19:40:18 2011 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 15:40:18 -0400 Subject: sub-net routing question Message-ID: <4E4C1922.4040500@yahoo.ca> Hey folks, Although I've set up many routers at small businesses and residentially for friends, when I've had more than one router at one site, I've always just turned on NAT instead of doing (what I gather is) the more advanced "proper" way to do it, with sub-netting. I.e. what I normally do is, if the first router (with external IP on its WAN) is giving LAN addresses 192.168.99.x, I'll hook the second router's WAN port to that .99.x LAN, and set the second router to, say, use LAN addresses 192.168.88.x. The second router uses NAT when its clients send traffic to the first LAN (or internet), and the first router also uses NAT when its clients send traffic to the internet. This works fine when basically all I need is just a bunch of machines to have internet access (and if there are any in-house servers, file shares, printers, etc, they are only on the first LAN). There is no manually added routing rule on the first router to allow hosts on the first LAN to reach hosts on the second LAN. I think I have a good handle on what a netmask of different lengths means and now I'm trying to put the theory to practice. Actually this is eventually for a VPN set-up but I'm trying with a LAN first to make sure I understand that. Picture three routers and two computers... "middle router" has (for now) nothing connected to WAN, just LAN "left router" has its WAN jack connected to a LAN jack of middle router "right router" has its WAN jack connected to a LAN jack of middle router "left computer" is connected to LAN jack of left router "right computer" is connected to LAN jack of right router I'm trying to stick to whatever "normal" routing rules are added in a vanilla consumer router when you set up its LAN and WAN ports. I.e. how do I do this with only setting addresses, netmasks, and gateways, no custom added routes? My understanding thus far (taking the 192.168.x.x private address space for example) is that the whole network could be 192.168.x.x/16, and the left sub-net could be 192.168.1.x/24, and the right sub-net could be 192.168.2.x/24. left computer: 192.168.1.10/24 (say, via DHCP from left router) left router LAN: 192.168.1.1/24 left router WAN: 192.168.1.2/16 middle router LAN: 192.168.0.1/16 middle router WAN: (un-used in this experiment, could naturally be external IP later, with normal vanilla NAT) right router LAN: 192.168.2.1/24 right router WAN: 192.168.2.2/16 right computer: 192.168.2.10/24 (say, via DHCP from right router) I guess the main thing I'm doubtful about is the left router (and same issue for right, but just take left for now)... Does it make sense or it is valid for it to have LAN .1.1/24, and WAN .1.2/16? i.e. do these final digits .1 and .2 need to be different? or could it validly have LAN .1.1/24 and WAN .1.1/16 and these are different enough because one is actually [network 192.168.1, host .1], and the other is actually [network 192.168, host .1.1] ? Now after phrasing the question, I'm thinking this is not possible without manually added routes(two?), at the very least on the middle router. Even though its full network (192.168.x.x/16) is "in-house" and "under" its LAN, it only knows for sure the addresses of the left and right router, not the left and right computer under those. So then if I'm right about that, what would the rule on the middle router be? and could the left and right router still just be set up with vanilla address/netmask/gateway and no further NAT or routing settings? On the third hand, I'm also thinking now that the left and right routers' WAN addresses should be in a different block of the big sub-net, not in blocks also covered by their sub-net LANs. Like 192.168.0.10, and .0.11. Thanks in advance for any insights you can share (including starting from scratch with totally different blocks of numbers; in fact that might be clearer than suggesting many changes to the above). Martin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 17 20:27:24 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 16:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: sub-net routing question In-Reply-To: <4E4C1922.4040500-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E4C1922.4040500@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: | From: marthter Thanks for your careful explanation. I have a bit of ADD today so I didn't read it all. Sorry if I missed something important. | Although I've set up many routers at small businesses and residentially for | friends, when I've had more than one router at one site, I've always just | turned on NAT instead of doing (what I gather is) the more advanced "proper" | way to do it, with sub-netting. Proper for what? NAPTing is forced on many of us due to not having a sufficient pool of globally routable IP addresses. NAPTing has many downsides. The internet was designed to be a network of peers. Things behind NAPT struggle to be anything besides clients. The struggle includes nasty things like STUN. | I.e. what I normally do is, if the first | router (with external IP on its WAN) is giving LAN addresses 192.168.99.x, | I'll hook the second router's WAN port to that .99.x LAN, and set the second | router to, say, use LAN addresses 192.168.88.x. The second router uses NAT | when its clients send traffic to the first LAN (or internet), and the first | router also uses NAT when its clients send traffic to the internet. This | works fine when basically all I need is just a bunch of machines to have | internet access (and if there are any in-house servers, file shares, printers, | etc, they are only on the first LAN). There is no manually added routing rule | on the first router to allow hosts on the first LAN to reach hosts on the | second LAN. This is the paragraph that I didn't spend the time to understand. Sorry. | I think I have a good handle on what a netmask of different lengths means and | now I'm trying to put the theory to practice. Actually this is eventually for | a VPN set-up but I'm trying with a LAN first to make sure I understand that. If that's really what you have in mind, it might be worth spelling it out. Or maybe not. | Picture three routers and two computers... | | "middle router" has (for now) nothing connected to WAN, just LAN | "left router" has its WAN jack connected to a LAN jack of middle router | "right router" has its WAN jack connected to a LAN jack of middle router | "left computer" is connected to LAN jack of left router | "right computer" is connected to LAN jack of right router I don't see any connection to the internet. That means that you don't need globally addressable IP addresses. That means address assignment is up to you. That makes the problem a lot easier. I'm pretty sure that this isn't really what you want. So you need to throw in a few more details. Like where the internet connections are. If the only connection is through the WAN side of the middle router then there is a simple solution that works out of the box with consumer routers: allow each router to do NAPT. Slightly ugly (double NAPTing) but it should work as well as any NAPTing works. | I'm trying to stick to whatever "normal" routing rules are added in a vanilla | consumer router when you set up its LAN and WAN ports. I.e. how do I do this | with only setting addresses, netmasks, and gateways, no custom added routes? Routing gets trickier when there are multiple paths to the internet and your router is tasked with choosing the path (think BGP etc.). At home I have two broadband connections and two routers. I statically each host (via DHCP) to use a specific gateway and thus I don't get all the advantages of redundant connections. But I don't think Rogers would let me run BGP. | My understanding thus far (taking the 192.168.x.x private address space for | example) is that the whole network could be 192.168.x.x/16, and the left | sub-net could be 192.168.1.x/24, and the right sub-net could be | 192.168.2.x/24. | | left computer: 192.168.1.10/24 (say, via DHCP from left router) | | left router LAN: 192.168.1.1/24 | left router WAN: 192.168.1.2/16 | | middle router LAN: 192.168.0.1/16 | middle router WAN: (un-used in this experiment, could naturally be external IP | later, with normal vanilla NAT) | | right router LAN: 192.168.2.1/24 | right router WAN: 192.168.2.2/16 | | right computer: 192.168.2.10/24 (say, via DHCP from right router) | | | I guess the main thing I'm doubtful about is the left router (and same issue | for right, but just take left for now)... Does it make sense or it is valid | for it to have LAN .1.1/24, and WAN .1.2/16? i.e. do these final digits .1 | and .2 need to be different? You only use NAT if you have to. What problem does this solve? If all your networking is on a modest LAN, and you don't need NATing on that, generally speaking a switch will do the job. As you scale, more may be needed. For example, for internal security. | or could it validly have LAN .1.1/24 and WAN .1.1/16 and these are different | enough because one is actually [network 192.168.1, host .1], and the other is | actually [network 192.168, host .1.1] ? | | Now after phrasing the question, I'm thinking this is not possible without | manually added routes(two?), at the very least on the middle router. Ordinary switches broadcast stuff on all their ports until they learn which port has each MAC address. This works fine on a LAN (to a point) but wastes bandwidth over links with costs and it has security implications. You haven't explained enough to know why switches wouldn't do for left and right. | Even | though its full network (192.168.x.x/16) is "in-house" and "under" its LAN, it | only knows for sure the addresses of the left and right router, not the left | and right computer under those. So then if I'm right about that, what would | the rule on the middle router be? and could the left and right router still | just be set up with vanilla address/netmask/gateway and no further NAT or | routing settings? | | On the third hand, I'm also thinking now that the left and right routers' WAN | addresses should be in a different block of the big sub-net, not in blocks | also covered by their sub-net LANs. Like 192.168.0.10, and .0.11. Why? I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't know the motivation. | Thanks in advance for any insights you can share (including starting from | scratch with totally different blocks of numbers; in fact that might be | clearer than suggesting many changes to the above). Globally routable IP addresses make many things better. There is a shortage of them unless you go the IPv6. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 17 21:22:16 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:22:16 -0400 Subject: sub-net routing question In-Reply-To: <4E4C1922.4040500-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E4C1922.4040500@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20110817212216.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 03:40:18PM -0400, marthter wrote: > Although I've set up many routers at small businesses and > residentially for friends, when I've had more than one router at one > site, I've always just turned on NAT instead of doing (what I gather > is) the more advanced "proper" way to do it, with sub-netting. I.e. > what I normally do is, if the first router (with external IP on its > WAN) is giving LAN addresses 192.168.99.x, I'll hook the second > router's WAN port to that .99.x LAN, and set the second router to, > say, use LAN addresses 192.168.88.x. The second router uses NAT > when its clients send traffic to the first LAN (or internet), and > the first router also uses NAT when its clients send traffic to the > internet. This works fine when basically all I need is just a bunch > of machines to have internet access (and if there are any in-house > servers, file shares, printers, etc, they are only on the first > LAN). There is no manually added routing rule on the first router > to allow hosts on the first LAN to reach hosts on the second LAN. > > I think I have a good handle on what a netmask of different lengths > means and now I'm trying to put the theory to practice. Actually > this is eventually for a VPN set-up but I'm trying with a LAN first > to make sure I understand that. > > Picture three routers and two computers... > > "middle router" has (for now) nothing connected to WAN, just LAN > "left router" has its WAN jack connected to a LAN jack of middle router > "right router" has its WAN jack connected to a LAN jack of middle router > "left computer" is connected to LAN jack of left router > "right computer" is connected to LAN jack of right router Are you actually using routers, or just your typical little one wan port and a switch type boxes? A lot of the cheap boxes can only route between a wan port and an internal switch (with one subnet on it). Some are more advanced and can setup vlan's for specific ports, which would allow you to have other switches on different ports with different subnets and route between them (there is no need for multiple routers to do that, just one decent router and some switches). If you do have multiple routers, some support using RIP or OSPF or ISIS to share the routing info with each other, so that you don't have to add each route manually to each router. It can also be used to create redundant routes in some cases so a cable or port failure won't take out the whole network. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 17 21:29:10 2011 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:29:10 -0400 Subject: sub-net routing question In-Reply-To: References: <4E4C1922.4040500@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <4E4C32A6.1030302@yahoo.ca> Hey Hugh, Thanks for the reply... On 11-08-17 04:27 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: marthter > > Thanks for your careful explanation. I have a bit of ADD today so I > didn't read it all. Sorry if I missed something important. > > | Although I've set up many routers at small businesses and residentially for > | friends, when I've had more than one router at one site, I've always just > | turned on NAT instead of doing (what I gather is) the more advanced "proper" > | way to do it, with sub-netting. > > Proper for what? "Proper" so that hosts on both LANs can reach each other, not just reach the internet. (i.e. one LAN closer-to-the-outside-internet, and the second LAN, whose router is a client of the first LAN, plus has more hosts within its LAN). That was just describing my "old" way of doing things, that I'm trying to move beyond. > NAPTing is forced on many of us due to not having a sufficient pool of > globally routable IP addresses. > > NAPTing has many downsides. The internet was designed to be a network > of peers. Things behind NAPT struggle to be anything besides clients. > The struggle includes nasty things like STUN. > > | I.e. what I normally do is, if the first > | router (with external IP on its WAN) is giving LAN addresses 192.168.99.x, > | I'll hook the second router's WAN port to that .99.x LAN, and set the second > | router to, say, use LAN addresses 192.168.88.x. The second router uses NAT > | when its clients send traffic to the first LAN (or internet), and the first > | router also uses NAT when its clients send traffic to the internet. This > | works fine when basically all I need is just a bunch of machines to have > | internet access (and if there are any in-house servers, file shares, printers, > | etc, they are only on the first LAN). There is no manually added routing rule > | on the first router to allow hosts on the first LAN to reach hosts on the > | second LAN. > > This is the paragraph that I didn't spend the time to understand. > Sorry. Yeah that paragraph wasn't crucial, as I said, it was just to explain what I'm used to, to give context of what level of understanding I'm at. > | I think I have a good handle on what a netmask of different lengths means and > | now I'm trying to put the theory to practice. Actually this is eventually for > | a VPN set-up but I'm trying with a LAN first to make sure I understand that. > > If that's really what you have in mind, it might be worth spelling it > out. Or maybe not. Yeah I'm thinking not. Mr. Stickney, my grade 9-10 math teacher used to say, "If you can't solve a problem, solve a simpler problem." I don't think I'm clear enough on my "simple" example network to add the VPN stuff yet. > | Picture three routers and two computers... > | > | "middle router" has (for now) nothing connected to WAN, just LAN > | "left router" has its WAN jack connected to a LAN jack of middle router > | "right router" has its WAN jack connected to a LAN jack of middle router > | "left computer" is connected to LAN jack of left router > | "right computer" is connected to LAN jack of right router > > I don't see any connection to the internet. That means that you don't > need globally addressable IP addresses. That means address assignment > is up to you. That makes the problem a lot easier. > > I'm pretty sure that this isn't really what you want. So you need to > throw in a few more details. Like where the internet connections are. This is literally on a work bench with 3 routers and 2 computers and no internet, so, yes this is what I want. > If the only connection is through the WAN side of the middle router At the moment, that is correct, NO internet, (but, yes, later could be on WAN of middle router). > then there is a simple solution that works out of the box with > consumer routers: allow each router to do NAPT. Slightly ugly (double > NAPTing) but it should work as well as any NAPTing works. yes that works for "left computer" and "right computer" to surf the net, but not to ping each other or access other network services on the other. > | I'm trying to stick to whatever "normal" routing rules are added in a vanilla > | consumer router when you set up its LAN and WAN ports. I.e. how do I do this > | with only setting addresses, netmasks, and gateways, no custom added routes? > > Routing gets trickier when there are multiple paths to the internet > and your router is tasked with choosing the path (think BGP etc.). > > At home I have two broadband connections and two routers. I > statically each host (via DHCP) to use a specific gateway and thus I > don't get all the advantages of redundant connections. But I don't > think Rogers would let me run BGP. > > | My understanding thus far (taking the 192.168.x.x private address space for > | example) is that the whole network could be 192.168.x.x/16, and the left > | sub-net could be 192.168.1.x/24, and the right sub-net could be > | 192.168.2.x/24. > | > | left computer: 192.168.1.10/24 (say, via DHCP from left router) > | > | left router LAN: 192.168.1.1/24 > | left router WAN: 192.168.1.2/16 > | > | middle router LAN: 192.168.0.1/16 > | middle router WAN: (un-used in this experiment, could naturally be external IP > | later, with normal vanilla NAT) > | > | right router LAN: 192.168.2.1/24 > | right router WAN: 192.168.2.2/16 > | > | right computer: 192.168.2.10/24 (say, via DHCP from right router) > | > | > | I guess the main thing I'm doubtful about is the left router (and same issue > | for right, but just take left for now)... Does it make sense or it is valid > | for it to have LAN .1.1/24, and WAN .1.2/16? i.e. do these final digits .1 > | and .2 need to be different? > > You only use NAT if you have to. What problem does this solve? > > If all your networking is on a modest LAN, and you don't need NATing > on that, generally speaking a switch will do the job. As you scale, > more may be needed. For example, for internal security. Yes I realize the three routers in my example network could be replaced with three switches, and thus left computer could access right computer and vice versa. But I'm trying to experiment with and understand the three-routers example so that later when some links are VPN links, I can apply it there. My thinking (in the LAN and WAN addresses/netmasks I proposed above) is that the middle router could be set so its LAN is set up as the big subnet (i.e. with a /16 netmask), and the left and right router have their WAN ports as clients of the middle router, and have their LAN ports to clients on smaller subnets (i.e. with /24 netmask). And I'm thinking (and perhaps this is the wrong part), that it is easier/better/cleaner/properer that the two smaller subnets be actual SUBNETS OF the big subnet of the middle router. > | or could it validly have LAN .1.1/24 and WAN .1.1/16 and these are different > | enough because one is actually [network 192.168.1, host .1], and the other is > | actually [network 192.168, host .1.1] ? > | > | Now after phrasing the question, I'm thinking this is not possible without > | manually added routes(two?), at the very least on the middle router. > > Ordinary switches broadcast stuff on all their ports until they learn > which port has each MAC address. This works fine on a LAN (to a > point) but wastes bandwidth over links with costs and it has security > implications. > > You haven't explained enough to know why switches wouldn't do for left > and right. > > | Even > | though its full network (192.168.x.x/16) is "in-house" and "under" its LAN, it > | only knows for sure the addresses of the left and right router, not the left > | and right computer under those. So then if I'm right about that, what would > | the rule on the middle router be? and could the left and right router still > | just be set up with vanilla address/netmask/gateway and no further NAT or > | routing settings? > | > | On the third hand, I'm also thinking now that the left and right routers' WAN > | addresses should be in a different block of the big sub-net, not in blocks > | also covered by their sub-net LANs. Like 192.168.0.10, and .0.11. > > Why? I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't know the motivation. I'm just saying I don't know if it is valid for the left router's LAN address to be 192.168.1.1 with /24 netmask, and its WAN address to be 192.168.1.2 with a /16 netmask. (and similarly for right router) > | Thanks in advance for any insights you can share (including starting from > | scratch with totally different blocks of numbers; in fact that might be > | clearer than suggesting many changes to the above). > > Globally routable IP addresses make many things better. There is a > shortage of them unless you go the IPv6. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 17 22:04:59 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 18:04:59 -0400 Subject: sub-net routing question In-Reply-To: <4E4C32A6.1030302-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E4C1922.4040500@yahoo.ca> <4E4C32A6.1030302@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20110817220459.GG15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 05:29:10PM -0400, marthter wrote: > Yes I realize the three routers in my example network could be > replaced with three switches, and thus left computer could access > right computer and vice versa. But I'm trying to experiment with > and understand the three-routers example so that later when some > links are VPN links, I can apply it there. > > My thinking (in the LAN and WAN addresses/netmasks I proposed above) > is that the middle router could be set so its LAN is set up as the > big subnet (i.e. with a /16 netmask), and the left and right router > have their WAN ports as clients of the middle router, and have their > LAN ports to clients on smaller subnets (i.e. with /24 netmask). That's NOT a good solution. It generally doesn't work. The problem is that every device in the large subnet connected to the middle router thinks everything is local for that large subnet, and don't know that some parts of the large subnet are in fact not local but rather behind some other routers. Then to solve that every client in the middle large subnet needs a route entry for each of the smaller subnets. That's a mess. > And I'm thinking (and perhaps this is the wrong part), that it is > easier/better/cleaner/properer that the two smaller subnets be > actual SUBNETS OF the big subnet of the middle router. Only if no devices are directly part of the larger subnet. So it would be OK to have: Main router +-------------192.168.0.254/24-----------+ | | | | | | 192.168.0.1/24 192.168.0.2/24 192.168.0.3/24 Router 1 Router 2 Router 3 192.168.1.254/24 192.168.2.254/24 192.168.3.254/24 | | | | | | | | | A1 A2 A3 B1 B2 B3 C1 C2 C3 The default route on Router 0, 1 and 2 is the main router (192.168.0.254) The default route of clients A1 through A3 would be 192.168.1.254 since that is their local router. The main router would have route entries saying 192.168.1.0/24 is through 192.168.0.1, and similar for the other two networks. This way anything from C1 for another subnet will be forwarded by router 3 to its default gateway (since it doesn't know where A1 is for example), and then the main router will know that it is through router 1, so it forwards it there, and router 1 knows where A1 is and sends the data there. Now if the main router had a link to someone above it, it would be fine for the one above it to have a route for 192.168.0.0/16 through main router, since main router knows where all the 192.168.x.0/24 networks are and can forward traffic to all of them. > I'm just saying I don't know if it is valid for the left router's > LAN address to be 192.168.1.1 with /24 netmask, and its WAN address > to be 192.168.1.2 with a /16 netmask. No it is not. After all if it had to send something to 192.168.1.3, would that be through the LAN or the WAN interface? It has no way to know. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 17 22:11:28 2011 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 18:11:28 -0400 Subject: sub-net routing question In-Reply-To: <20110817212216.GF15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4E4C1922.4040500@yahoo.ca> <20110817212216.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E4C3C90.6030609@yahoo.ca> Hi Lennart, Thank you for your reply... On 11-08-17 05:22 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 03:40:18PM -0400, marthter wrote: >> ... >> Picture three routers and two computers... >> >> "middle router" has (for now) nothing connected to WAN, just LAN >> "left router" has its WAN jack connected to a LAN jack of middle router >> "right router" has its WAN jack connected to a LAN jack of middle router >> "left computer" is connected to LAN jack of left router >> "right computer" is connected to LAN jack of right router > Are you actually using routers, or just your typical little one wan port > and a switch type boxes? um yes and no. No they are not 48 port rack mount routers. Yes they have one WAN port and four LAN ports (whether the LAN side is just a switch or more intelligent or not I don't know). They are running OpenWRT (which I guess makes this on-topic : - ) However that is not really the point of the question. I was trying to keep the question general, almost as a thought experiment.... if I can distill it maybe further it would be something like: How can one set up three routers and two computers in a hierarchical network? - if possible using just address/netmask/gateway settings (and whatever routes the computers and routers add for you automatically based on gateway) - but if necessary, with manually added route(s), preferably only on the middle router I guess from all the various networking stuff I've read and played with over the years (I mean I've been able to set up a lot of simple LANs for people but clearly I've read no Cisco textbooks), I always thought that the "right" (or most efficient) way to do this, was both to wire them in a tree layout, and to define the logical numbering of addresses and subnets in a tree layout that mimics the wiring. > A lot of the cheap boxes can only route between a wan port and an internal > switch (with one subnet on it). If I understand this, I think this means my left router and right router are still fine, and this is maybe an issue in my middle router, but it would just be broadcasting to its four LAN ports and would eventually switch packets to the right ports. > Some are more advanced and can setup vlan's for specific ports, which > would allow you to have other switches on different ports with different > subnets and route between them (there is no need for multiple routers > to do that, just one decent router and some switches). Maybe another way to phrase it is, aside from an all-switches network, what is the simplest "hello world" heirarchical network that would get the most mileage out of the basic address/netmask/gateway setup (which I'm most familiar with), and require the fewest custom/manual routing rules in the fewest places? > If you do have multiple routers, some support using RIP or OSPF or ISIS > to share the routing info with each other, so that you don't have to > add each route manually to each router. It can also be used to create > redundant routes in some cases so a cable or port failure won't take > out the whole network. I'd just like to know how to structure it first before improving the robustness or maintainability. Thank you -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 17 22:54:30 2011 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 18:54:30 -0400 Subject: sub-net routing question In-Reply-To: <20110817220459.GG15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4E4C1922.4040500@yahoo.ca> <4E4C32A6.1030302@yahoo.ca> <20110817220459.GG15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E4C46A6.9030807@yahoo.ca> Hi Lennart, I was replying to your other one before I saw that you'd sent this one. This one mostly answers my question, thanks. (with some follow ups).... On 11-08-17 06:04 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 05:29:10PM -0400, marthter wrote: >> Yes I realize the three routers in my example network could be >> replaced with three switches, and thus left computer could access >> right computer and vice versa. But I'm trying to experiment with >> and understand the three-routers example so that later when some >> links are VPN links, I can apply it there. >> >> My thinking (in the LAN and WAN addresses/netmasks I proposed above) >> is that the middle router could be set so its LAN is set up as the >> big subnet (i.e. with a /16 netmask), and the left and right router >> have their WAN ports as clients of the middle router, and have their >> LAN ports to clients on smaller subnets (i.e. with /24 netmask). > That's NOT a good solution. It generally doesn't work. The problem > is that every device in the large subnet connected to the middle router > thinks everything is local for that large subnet, and don't know that some > parts of the large subnet are in fact not local but rather behind some > other routers. Okay, that was my misunderstanding then, in thinking that was enough for the router that could deliver it to be local, not that the final destination needed to be local. > Then to solve that every client in the middle large subnet > needs a route entry for each of the smaller subnets. That's a mess. >> And I'm thinking (and perhaps this is the wrong part), that it is >> easier/better/cleaner/properer that the two smaller subnets be >> actual SUBNETS OF the big subnet of the middle router. > Only if no devices are directly part of the larger subnet. So it would > be OK to have: > > Main router > +-------------192.168.0.254/24-----------+ > | | | > | | | > 192.168.0.1/24 192.168.0.2/24 192.168.0.3/24 > Router 1 Router 2 Router 3 > 192.168.1.254/24 192.168.2.254/24 192.168.3.254/24 > | | | | | | | | | > A1 A2 A3 B1 B2 B3 C1 C2 C3 > > The default route on Router 0, 1 and 2 is the main router (192.168.0.254) > The default route of clients A1 through A3 would be 192.168.1.254 since > that is their local router. The main router would have route entries > saying 192.168.1.0/24 is through 192.168.0.1, and similar for the other > two networks. okay the above diagram basically looks like what I want. Thanks! I will try it. > This way anything from C1 for another subnet will be forwarded by > router 3 to its default gateway (since it doesn't know where A1 is for > example), and then the main router will know that it is through router 1, > so it forwards it there, and router 1 knows where A1 is and sends the > data there. > Now if the main router had a link to someone above it, it would be fine > for the one above it to have a route for 192.168.0.0/16 through main > router, since main router knows where all the 192.168.x.0/24 networks > are and can forward traffic to all of them. I see, so the 192.168.0.0/16 network/netmask might be used in routing RULES somewhere higher up, but no devices would actually have it in their interface definition? >> I'm just saying I don't know if it is valid for the left router's >> LAN address to be 192.168.1.1 with /24 netmask, and its WAN address >> to be 192.168.1.2 with a /16 netmask. > No it is not. After all if it had to send something to 192.168.1.3, would > that be through the LAN or the WAN interface? It has no way to know. > Yes that's why it didn't seem right but I couldn't picture anything that seemed better (although I was kind of creeping towards the answer in my "on the third hand" paragraph). Thanks again. Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 03:16:25 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 23:16:25 -0400 Subject: Emergency/Occational IT Backup Message-ID: <20110818031625.GA20409@yam.witteman.ca> I am the IT department at a small Toronto company. I am the sysadmin, the tech support and the IT purchasing. It is a good position to be in, and I get to do a lot of interesting things, but when I'm out of the office there is on one who can do what I do. What I am looking for is a person or small group that I could hire to learn to support my systems, and then occasionally cover for me when I am out of the office. The tasks they would be called on to do would be the few, time-sensitive things that might come up - a server goes down, a printer needs reinstallation, a remote user needs support, etc. Is there someone or a small group that could fill this role on the list? Skills needed are the usual - Linux, Apache, Postfix, Windows, MS Office, printing and networking. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 08:04:54 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 04:04:54 -0400 Subject: Where to get a smartphone *NOT* under contract? Message-ID: <20110818080454.GA1576@waltdnes.org> After doing some research, I've narrowed down the field to a few models. They all meet these criteria... * slightly larger than the standard "dinky-phones". I'm 6 feet tall, and I don't have the hands of a 12-year-old girl. * half-decent camera and camcorders. Yes, I know they're not DSLRs, but they're easier to lug around. Plus many events explicitly allow phone-cams, but not "professional cameras". * CyanogenMod support ( see http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices ) I'm mostly interested in Wifi, and may not bother connecting to a phone provider. (I already have a "POTS" candybar cellphone that I got in 2006.) The interesting models are... 1st choice HTC Sprint EVO 2nd tier choices ================ HTC Desire HD (Inspire) T-Mobile G2x (aka LG Optimus 2x) How difficult are they to get in Canada? Pacific Mall? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 11:28:52 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 07:28:52 -0400 Subject: OT: ISP Urgent Message-ID: <4E4CF774.8000200@gmail.com> Guys I just got rebilled, I have been with Acanac for about a year and I've been happy with them. I am wondering if anyone else has a better plan with another ISP I can look into quickly! I am paying $33,95 for DSL, 5mps down/ 800Kps up Thanks, -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 11:42:48 2011 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 07:42:48 -0400 Subject: OT: ISP Urgent In-Reply-To: <4E4CF774.8000200-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E4CF774.8000200@gmail.com> Message-ID: Last time I looked, Teksavvy had both a good rep and similar costs. I'm not on them, but I keep hearing from satisfied customers. On August 18, 2011 07:28:52 you wrote: > Guys I just got rebilled, I have been with Acanac for about a year and > I've been happy with them. I am wondering if anyone else has a better > plan with another ISP I can look into quickly! > > I am paying $33,95 for DSL, 5mps down/ 800Kps up > > Thanks, > > -- There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 11:46:41 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 07:46:41 -0400 Subject: OT: ISP Urgent In-Reply-To: References: <4E4CF774.8000200@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E4CFBA1.6010503@gmail.com> On 11-08-18 07:42 AM, Gary Layng wrote: > Last time I looked, Teksavvy had both a good rep and similar costs. I'm not on them, but I keep hearing from satisfied customers. > > On August 18, 2011 07:28:52 you wrote: >> Guys I just got rebilled, I have been with Acanac for about a year and >> I've been happy with them. I am wondering if anyone else has a better >> plan with another ISP I can look into quickly! >> >> I am paying $33,95 for DSL, 5mps down/ 800Kps up >> >> Thanks, >> >> Gary, thank, I checked them out, they are a bit more costly so making a switch doesn't work for me. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 13:02:19 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:02:19 -0400 Subject: Where to get a smartphone *NOT* under contract? In-Reply-To: <20110818080454.GA1576-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110818080454.GA1576@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 18 August 2011 04:04, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?After doing some research, I've narrowed down the field to a few > models. ?They all meet these criteria... > > * slightly larger than the standard "dinky-phones". ?I'm 6 feet tall, > ?and I don't have the hands of a 12-year-old girl. > > * half-decent camera and camcorders. ?Yes, I know they're not DSLRs, > ?but they're easier to lug around. ?Plus many events explicitly allow > ?phone-cams, but not "professional cameras". > > * CyanogenMod support ( see http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices ) > > ?I'm mostly interested in Wifi, and may not bother connecting to a > phone provider. ?(I already have a "POTS" candybar cellphone that I got > in 2006.) ?The interesting models are... > > 1st choice HTC Sprint EVO > > 2nd tier choices > ================ > HTC Desire HD (Inspire) > T-Mobile G2x (aka LG Optimus 2x) > > ?How difficult are they to get in Canada? ?Pacific Mall? "Pacific Mall" was my first thought (it's where my brother bought his unlocked smartphone), but my second was Newegg: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875502089 They don't seem to have the Evo, but that's the Desire. NCIX (another reliable Canadian source of electronics and computer gear) also seems to carry phones: http://ncix.com/products/index.php?minorcatid=1216 Good luck. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 13:33:54 2011 From: iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Isaac Connor) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:33:54 -0400 Subject: Emergency/Occational IT Backup In-Reply-To: <20110818031625.GA20409-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110818031625.GA20409@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <1313674434.4440.2.camel@perry.internal.point-one.com> I'm looking forward to seeing the replies, as I am in the same boat. I provide IT support services to printing companies mostly. I handle all the tasks you list and more. You can call on me anytime. cell: 647-883-5483 email: iconnor-8+tXeFxsjZXBNxJ6UmF5jlaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org Rates: $50/hr offsite, $75/hr onsite $100/hr weekends/holidays. On Wed, 2011-08-17 at 23:16 -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I am the IT department at a small Toronto company. I am the sysadmin, > the tech support and the IT purchasing. It is a good position to be in, > and I get to do a lot of interesting things, but when I'm out of the > office there is on one who can do what I do. > > What I am looking for is a person or small group that I could hire to > learn to support my systems, and then occasionally cover for me when I > am out of the office. The tasks they would be called on to do would be > the few, time-sensitive things that might come up - a server goes down, > a printer needs reinstallation, a remote user needs support, etc. > > Is there someone or a small group that could fill this role on the list? > > Skills needed are the usual - Linux, Apache, Postfix, Windows, MS > Office, printing and networking. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 14:44:38 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 10:44:38 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Ben reports that Grant is resting more comfortably, and opens his eye occasionally. They have removed some of the bandages and he is looking better. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 15:07:22 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 11:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Where to get a smartphone *NOT* under contract? In-Reply-To: <20110818080454.GA1576-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110818080454.GA1576@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | I'm mostly interested in Wifi, and may not bother connecting to a | phone provider. (I already have a "POTS" candybar cellphone that I got | in 2006.) Sure sounds like a tablet will do for you. They generally come unbundled. If you didn't need a camera, I'd suggest that you look at the Nook Color. B&N (official) refurbs are a steal at the moment ($169 but you need to get them through a US friend). The tablet market is changing very quickly at the moment. Who knows what it will look like in 6 months. Apparently all manufacturers but Apple have found sales to be less than shipments. I would imagine that this is a recipe for deep discounts to clear stock from stores. Beware: the phone market is segmented by frequencies. T-Mobile apparently uses the same frequencies as Wind, different from Bell and Rogers. (There is overlap, but having the wrong frequencies causes some problems.) I bought a cheap Android phone (LG Optimus One) through Koodo. Net cost somewhere around $50-75 (hard to figure out what to count) and no contract. Price is a little higher now. But this phone's capabilities are below your stated requirements. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 15:31:00 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 11:31:00 -0400 Subject: Where to get a smartphone *NOT* under contract? In-Reply-To: References: <20110818080454.GA1576@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 11:07 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Walter Dnes > > | ? I'm mostly interested in Wifi, and may not bother connecting to a > | phone provider. ?(I already have a "POTS" candybar cellphone that I got > | in 2006.) > > Sure sounds like a tablet will do for you. Indeed. One of the more unsung brands that seems rather good is Archos. They carry models that are about the size of a mobile phone: The latter is carried by Newegg.ca: I have been watching what's going on with Nexus S prices on Craigslist/Kijiji; that's how I got my last couple phones, and I haven't had any "transaction problems." -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 16:47:58 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 12:47:58 -0400 Subject: Where to get a smartphone *NOT* under contract? In-Reply-To: References: <20110818080454.GA1576@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 11:07 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > If you didn't need a camera, I'd suggest that you look at the Nook Color. > B&N (official) refurbs are a steal at the moment ($169 but you need to get > them through a US friend). I have one. They are pretty good once rooted (which takes about five minutes). They don't have a GPS and may or may not have Bluetooth. Only thing is that they are heavy. As the B&N Nook store works just fine for me in Toronto, and they'll happily ship accessories to Canada, it might be worth trying to order online. Stewart -- http://scruss.com/blog/ - 73 de VA3PID -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 16:56:51 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 12:56:51 -0400 Subject: sub-net routing question In-Reply-To: <4E4C46A6.9030807-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E4C1922.4040500@yahoo.ca> <4E4C32A6.1030302@yahoo.ca> <20110817220459.GG15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E4C46A6.9030807@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20110818165651.GH15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 06:54:30PM -0400, marthter wrote: > Okay, that was my misunderstanding then, in thinking that was enough > for the router that could deliver it to be local, not that the final > destination needed to be local. No, things generally don't broadcast. Too inefficient. It can be done using 'proxy arp'. To do that you would need router 1, 2 and 3 to proxy arp for the devices behind them. It's rather error prone and my experience with it isn't very good, although there are cases for ppp servers and such where proxy arp can be pretty handy to make a collection of remote ppp users appear local by proxying arp requests locally for those IPs. > I see, so the 192.168.0.0/16 network/netmask might be used in > routing RULES somewhere higher up, but no devices would actually > have it in their interface definition? Right. By splitting it, you are pretty much deciding that's how those subnets are. You can look at them as an aggregat collection from elsewhere that you want to talk about, but the combined network does not actually exist anywhere as a network. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 17:02:51 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:02:51 -0400 Subject: Where to get a smartphone *NOT* under contract? In-Reply-To: References: <20110818080454.GA1576@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110818170251.GI15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 11:31:00AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > Indeed. One of the more unsung brands that seems rather good is Archos. Too bad about 90% of android tablets currently violate the GPL. How nice of them. Archos is about 50% at having their models be compliant (for the kernel at least). > They carry models that are about the size of a mobile phone: > > > > The latter is carried by Newegg.ca: > > > I have been watching what's going on with Nexus S prices on > Craigslist/Kijiji; that's how I got my last couple phones, and I > haven't had any "transaction problems." -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 18:40:28 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:40:28 -0400 Subject: Where to get a smartphone *NOT* under contract? In-Reply-To: References: <20110818080454.GA1576@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 18 August 2011 11:31, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 11:07 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> Sure sounds like a tablet will do for you. > > Indeed. ?One of the more unsung brands that seems rather good is Archos. > > They carry models that are about the size of a mobile phone: > > > > The latter is carried by Newegg.ca: > Something to consider about Archos: their models are cheaper, but they do that by cutting some corners. Their compromises are often fairly reasonable, but it's worth reading the reviews and realizing that a number of their models have resistive (rather than capacitive) touch, and the screens sometimes look very bad off-angle. I'm not anti-Archos - I still have my Archos Studio 20 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archos_Jukebox_series ) and it was a fantastic mp3 player when it came out a decade ago ... just pointing out the limitations. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 19:00:06 2011 From: cpchan-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Charles Philip Chan) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:00:06 -0400 Subject: Where to get a smartphone *NOT* under contract? In-Reply-To: (Giles Orr's message of "Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:40:28 -0400") References: <20110818080454.GA1576@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Giles Orr writes: > Something to consider about Archos: their models are cheaper, but they > do that by cutting some corners. Their compromises are often fairly > reasonable, but it's worth reading the reviews and realizing that a > number of their models have resistive (rather than capacitive) touch, > and the screens sometimes look very bad off-angle. I am very happy with my Archos 101[1] (capacitive touch screen) with the developer's firmware installed, dual booting Android and Debian[2]. Charles Footnotes: [1] http://www.archos.com/products/ta/archos_101it/index.html?lang=en [2] http://www.debian-archos.com/download-debian-for-archos-gen8 -- "All language designers are arrogant. Goes with the territory..." (By Larry Wall) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 19:39:31 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:39:31 -0400 Subject: Where to get a smartphone *NOT* under contract? In-Reply-To: <20110818170251.GI15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110818080454.GA1576@waltdnes.org> <20110818170251.GI15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110818193931.GA28815@yam.witteman.ca> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 01:02:51PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 11:31:00AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >> Indeed. One of the more unsung brands that seems rather good is Archos. > >Too bad about 90% of android tablets currently violate the GPL. How nice >of them. I have heard this, but so far just from enemies of Android/Google. As for as I know there have been no enforcement actions. The Android devices I have looked at all have the GPL and source code available - though it usually takes some digging to find it. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 20:12:59 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:12:59 -0400 Subject: Where to get a smartphone *NOT* under contract? In-Reply-To: <20110818193931.GA28815-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110818080454.GA1576@waltdnes.org> <20110818170251.GI15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110818193931.GA28815@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:39 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 01:02:51PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 11:31:00AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >>> Indeed. ?One of the more unsung brands that seems rather good is Archos. >> >>Too bad about 90% of android tablets currently violate the GPL. ?How nice >>of them. > > I have heard this, but so far just from enemies of Android/Google. ?As > for as I know there have been no enforcement actions. ?The Android > devices I have looked at all have the GPL and source code available - > though it usually takes some digging to find it. I don't consider myself an "enemy," but I have to agree with the claim that they sure do *seem* to be violating the GPL. http://projectgus.com/2010/07/open-source-in-android-tablets/ I had a (now-non-functional, seems to be a power issue, but not sure) WITS A81e; none of those involved with vending it were willing to provide the kernel sources that they used, and, as consequence, even though there are quite a lot of them around, there aren't custom (and better-than-stock) user environments ala CyanogenMod. The Chinese manufacturers seem to be notably notorious for these violations. They live in an environment where Western laws are recognized strangely, if at all, and it appears they are reluctant to give their local competitors the leg-up of letting out information about device drivers. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 20:24:14 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:24:14 -0400 Subject: Where to get a smartphone *NOT* under contract? In-Reply-To: <20110818193931.GA28815-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110818080454.GA1576@waltdnes.org> <20110818170251.GI15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110818193931.GA28815@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20110818202414.GJ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 03:39:31PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have heard this, but so far just from enemies of Android/Google. As > for as I know there have been no enforcement actions. The Android > devices I have looked at all have the GPL and source code available - > though it usually takes some digging to find it. Well I did see the list someone is keeping, and the number that have no sources at all is nuts. But if I qualify as an enemy of Android, then so be it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 18 22:21:12 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 18:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?] In-Reply-To: <20110815160350.GA15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | > HP's WebOS is built on Linux. Not sure if it is at all open -- I | > expect not. It's not dead yet. | | A proprietary user space running on a linux kernel is even worse than | android, which does occationally release sources to its proprietary | user space. HP today announced it is dicontinuing its tablet and phones. I extrapolate that this means that WebOS is dead. "Exploring strategic alternatives for Personal Systems Group; shutting down operations for webOS devices and exploring strategic alternatives for webOS software " If there is not hardware for WebOS, I'm not sure that the software has any purpose. They are thinking of / working on spinning off or disposing their PC business. They've been selling the tablet for a month or two. Hard to imagine that they can figure market acceptance in such a short time. If I bought one, I'd be mad. I'd hope they'd buy it back. If it were open source, the owners could manage to keep software support going. Hardware support is another matter but I think that US law forces HP to provide 5 years of hardware support. HP should release WebOS source now, but I imagine that it won't and perhaps cannot. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 01:08:49 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 21:08:49 -0400 Subject: Language question -- file = variable ? In-Reply-To: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOGZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E4DB7A1.6040508@gmail.com> On 11-08-16 10:41 AM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there a language which (natively or not) treats a filename like a variable in memory? For example, to increment a counter stored in a file, you would write something like > /tmp/counter = /tmp/counter + 1 > which involves both read and write to a file. If it were normal variable, then it would involve read/write to a memory instead. > > Python is the closest I can think of. But, you need to create a method for read and another method for write. And, typing more verbose than I would like. > If the file was xml based you can parse it with any script language that supports xml parsing. In Ruby you can use active resource, which is part of ruby core, it allows you to access an xml file like a database. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 01:21:20 2011 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 21:21:20 -0400 Subject: Language question -- file = variable ? In-Reply-To: <4E4DB7A1.6040508-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1313505684.44042.YahooMailNeo@web113412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E4DB7A1.6040508@gmail.com> Message-ID: You could also use memory mapping in C and friends: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory-mapped_file --matt On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > On 11-08-16 10:41 AM, William Park wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Is there a language which (natively or not) treats a filename like a >> variable in memory? ?For example, to increment a counter stored in a file, >> you would write something like >> ? ? ? ? /tmp/counter = /tmp/counter + 1 >> which involves both read and write to a file. ?If it were normal variable, >> then it would involve read/write to a memory instead. >> >> Python is the closest I can think of. ?But, you need to create a method >> for read and another method for write. ?And, typing more verbose than I >> would like. >> > If the file was xml based you can parse it with any script language that > supports xml parsing. > > In Ruby you can use active resource, which is part of ruby core, it allows > you to access an xml file like a database. > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- G. Matthew Rice ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? gpg id: EF9AAD20 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 02:13:31 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:13:31 -0400 Subject: Where to get a smartphone *NOT* under contract? In-Reply-To: References: <20110818080454.GA1576@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110819021331.GA2799@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 11:07:22AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > Sure sounds like a tablet will do for you. > > They generally come unbundled. > > If you didn't need a camera... Actually I do. It's obviously not going to be great, but I do want outdoor daylight shots. And a tablet is a bit much to lug around all the time, anyways. > Beware: the phone market is segmented by frequencies. T-Mobile > apparently uses the same frequencies as Wind, different from Bell and > Rogers. (There is overlap, but having the wrong frequencies causes > some problems.) I'm aware that the new entrants (Wind, Mobilicity, and Public Mobile) all use the AWS spec. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 15:51:42 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 11:51:42 -0400 Subject: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?] In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110819155142.GK15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 06:21:12PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > HP today announced it is dicontinuing its tablet and phones. I > extrapolate that this means that WebOS is dead. > > > "Exploring strategic alternatives for Personal Systems Group; > shutting down operations for webOS devices and exploring strategic > alternatives for webOS software " > > If there is not hardware for WebOS, I'm not sure that the software has > any purpose. > > They are thinking of / working on spinning off or disposing their PC > business. > > They've been selling the tablet for a month or two. Hard to imagine > that they can figure market acceptance in such a short time. Best Buy US apparently has 250,000 in stock. That probably was a hint to HP about how well their tablet is (not) selling. > If I bought one, I'd be mad. I'd hope they'd buy it back. Seems no one has except a few early adapters that seem to like it. No one else cares. > If it were open source, the owners could manage to keep software > support going. Hardware support is another matter but I think that US > law forces HP to provide 5 years of hardware support. Well they have plenty to simply give as a swap if any of the sold ones break, so no problem there other than storage and shipping costs. > HP should release WebOS source now, but I imagine that it won't and > perhaps cannot. This is HP you are talking about. These are the guys still pushing the Itanium. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 17:50:21 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 13:50:21 -0400 Subject: Convert existing openLDAP password from SSHA to SHA-1 Message-ID: Afternoon, I got a question that I have not found a solution despite tinkering with it and googling for weeks. Would like to share it here and hopes someone could have a suggestion/solution or just a confirmation this may not be possible I would like to move some users to google services through a postini application called "Google Apps Directory Sync". This application only supports MD5 and SHA-1. It happen though openLDAP does not hash the password as either MD5 or SHA-1 and I am therefore getting an error "InvalidHashDigestLength" when I run the postini application. What I have been looking for is a mean of converting the existing password to SHA-1 and I have not been successful. Any pointer advice where I can start? Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 18:33:34 2011 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 11:33:34 -0700 Subject: Convert existing openLDAP password from SSHA to SHA-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 10:50 AM, William Muriithi wrote: > What I have been looking for is a mean of converting the existing > password to SHA-1 and I have not been successful. Any pointer advice > where I can start? You'd need the passwords in plain text to be able to do that. If you have, or can get, the plain text, you could then hash them with any tool that generates SHA-1s. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 18:44:58 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 14:44:58 -0400 Subject: Convert existing openLDAP password from SSHA to SHA-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110819184457.GL15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:33:34AM -0700, Ian Petersen wrote: > You'd need the passwords in plain text to be able to do that. If you > have, or can get, the plain text, you could then hash them with any > tool that generates SHA-1s. If you had the passwords in plain text then you are already doing passwords very wrong. Best thing to do is set a new hash to use for new passwords, and then as people change them they will be converted to a new hash. You could always force expiry for all passwords to force people to change them, but that might be a bit annoying. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 18:49:15 2011 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 11:49:15 -0700 Subject: Convert existing openLDAP password from SSHA to SHA-1 In-Reply-To: <20110819184457.GL15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110819184457.GL15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > If you had the passwords in plain text then you are already doing > passwords very wrong. Agreed! Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 19:15:18 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:15:18 -0400 Subject: Convert existing openLDAP password from SSHA to SHA-1 In-Reply-To: References: <20110819184457.GL15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Thanks a lot guys for the response On 19 August 2011 14:49, Ian Petersen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> If you had the passwords in plain text then you are already doing >> passwords very wrong. > > Agreed! Agree too. It would be really bad to save then in clear text. We are not doing that and do not plan to taking that route. So, essentially its correct to assume the current password will stay in their current form. Sorensen raised a good suggestion, change the default openLDAP hashing method so that password would be SHA-1 going forward. Would you know how one can go about doing that? I am assuming its a line that will need to be introduced on slapd.conf but have not figured it from the openldap documentation Thanks again guys for the help. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 19:30:11 2011 From: alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:30:11 -0300 Subject: Convert existing openLDAP password from SSHA to SHA-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Willian, you can do so by changing *password-hash *param from your slapd.conf file. This param takes one or more hashing functions to be used for storing password hashed version. As stated in slapd.conf (5) man page: {SHA} and {SSHA} use the SHA-1 algorithm (FIPS 160-1), the latter with a seed as of {MD5} and {SMD5} use the MD5 algorithm (RFC 1321), the latter with a seed. You can add the following to make your setup work password-hash {SSHA} {SHA} or password-hash {SSHA} {MD5} This will add a new userPassword attribute to objects when they call the LDAP Password Modify Extended Operations (RFC 3062). As of stated in man page: Note that this option does not alter the normal user applications handling of userPassword during LDAP Add, Modify, or other LDAP operations. After making the change in slapd.conf, you need to restart the deamon and let all users change their passwords (in normal fashion or forced by password expire). Best Regards Alexandre Alencar Twitter @alexandreitpro http://blog.alexandrealencar.net/ http://www.alexandrealencar.net/ http://www.alexandrealencar.com http://www.servicosdeti.com.br/ COBIT, ITIL, CSM, LPI, MCP-I On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 2:50 PM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Afternoon, > > I got a question that I have not found a solution despite tinkering > with it and googling for weeks. Would like to share it here and hopes > someone could have a suggestion/solution or just a confirmation this > may not be possible > > I would like to move some users to google services through a postini > application called "Google Apps Directory Sync". This application only > supports MD5 and SHA-1. It happen though openLDAP does not hash the > password as either MD5 or SHA-1 and I am therefore getting an error > "InvalidHashDigestLength" when I run the postini application. > > What I have been looking for is a mean of converting the existing > password to SHA-1 and I have not been successful. Any pointer advice > where I can start? > > Regards, > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 19:32:24 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:32:24 -0400 Subject: Convert existing openLDAP password from SSHA to SHA-1 In-Reply-To: References: <20110819184457.GL15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110819193224.GM15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 03:15:18PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Agree too. It would be really bad to save then in clear text. We are > not doing that and do not plan to taking that route. > > So, essentially its correct to assume the current password will stay > in their current form. They appear to be flagged with their current hash type, so it should continue to work fine. > Sorensen raised a good suggestion, change the default openLDAP hashing > method so that password would be SHA-1 going forward. Would you know > how one can go about doing that? I am assuming its a line that will > need to be introduced on slapd.conf but have not figured it from the > openldap documentation > > Thanks again guys for the help. The docs seem to indicate that the slapd.conf option password-hash does it, but only for modify operations (like ldappasswd and such). It doesn't mention what decides it for other things. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 19:34:08 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:34:08 -0400 Subject: Convert existing openLDAP password from SSHA to SHA-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110819193408.GN15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 04:30:11PM -0300, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar wrote: > Willian, you can do so by changing *password-hash *param from your > slapd.conf file. This param takes one or more hashing functions to be used > for storing password hashed version. > > As stated in slapd.conf (5) man page: > > {SHA} and {SSHA} use the SHA-1 algorithm (FIPS 160-1), the latter with a > seed as of {MD5} and {SMD5} use the MD5 algorithm (RFC 1321), the latter > with a seed. Of course the seed makes it vastly harder to crack and is hence recommended. So given the choice if you want hard to crack hashes, use SSHA, not SHA. Or use the available plugin and go to SHA2 instead. > You can add the following to make your setup work > > password-hash {SSHA} {SHA} > > or > > password-hash {SSHA} {MD5} > > This will add a new userPassword attribute to objects when they call the > LDAP Password Modify Extended Operations (RFC 3062). > > As of stated in man page: > > Note that this option does not alter the normal user applications handling > of userPassword during LDAP Add, Modify, or other LDAP operations. > > After making the change in slapd.conf, you need to restart the deamon and > let all users change their passwords (in normal fashion or forced by > password expire). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 19:42:32 2011 From: alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:42:32 -0300 Subject: Convert existing openLDAP password from SSHA to SHA-1 In-Reply-To: <20110819193408.GN15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110819193408.GN15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hi Lennart, Sure, but for this case, Google Directory Sync only support plain SHA-1 or MD5. Best Regards Alexandre Alencar Twitter @alexandreitpro http://blog.alexandrealencar.net/ http://www.alexandrealencar.net/ http://www.alexandrealencar.com http://www.servicosdeti.com.br/ COBIT, ITIL, CSM, LPI, MCP-I On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 04:30:11PM -0300, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar > wrote: > > Willian, you can do so by changing *password-hash *param from your > > slapd.conf file. This param takes one or more hashing functions to be > used > > for storing password hashed version. > > > > As stated in slapd.conf (5) man page: > > > > {SHA} and {SSHA} use the SHA-1 algorithm (FIPS 160-1), the latter with a > > seed as of {MD5} and {SMD5} use the MD5 algorithm (RFC 1321), the latter > > with a seed. > > Of course the seed makes it vastly harder to crack and is hence > recommended. So given the choice if you want hard to crack hashes, > use SSHA, not SHA. Or use the available plugin and go to SHA2 instead. > > > You can add the following to make your setup work > > > > password-hash {SSHA} {SHA} > > > > or > > > > password-hash {SSHA} {MD5} > > > > This will add a new userPassword attribute to objects when they call the > > LDAP Password Modify Extended Operations (RFC 3062). > > > > As of stated in man page: > > > > Note that this option does not alter the normal user applications > handling > > of userPassword during LDAP Add, Modify, or other LDAP operations. > > > > After making the change in slapd.conf, you need to restart the deamon and > > let all users change their passwords (in normal fashion or forced by > > password expire). > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 19:56:36 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:56:36 -0400 Subject: Ot: Router suggestions Message-ID: Hello, I am currently helping a non profit organization and was wondering if you could suggest a router. Being a non profit lower cost is better. The router needs to be able to take 2 wan connections and be able to fall back on one of it fails. I'm hoping to have 2 lan networks to separate traffic for security. I Each going on there own wan. If one of the wans fail for the lan it'll go to the working wan. The 2 wan would be cable and dsl. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 21:20:42 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 17:20:42 -0400 Subject: Ot: Router suggestions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110819212042.GO15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 03:56:36PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hello, > > I am currently helping a non profit organization and was wondering if you > could suggest a router. Being a non profit lower cost is better. The > router needs to be able to take 2 wan connections and be able to fall back > on one of it fails. That sounds a lot like that router someone was asking about testers for recently. > I'm hoping to have 2 lan networks to separate traffic for security. I Each > going on there own wan. If one of the wans fail for the lan it'll go to the > working wan. The 2 wan would be cable and dsl. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 21:24:00 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 17:24:00 -0400 Subject: Convert existing openLDAP password from SSHA to SHA-1 In-Reply-To: References: <20110819193408.GN15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Thanks guys On 19 August 2011 15:42, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar wrote: > Hi Lennart, > Sure, but for this case, Google Directory Sync only support plain SHA-1 or > MD5. Lennart, as Alexandre has mentioned google application do not support salted hashes. So essentially, the changes I am about to apply will weaken the password strength considering they are currently SSHA, but this look like the only way Directory Sync will be usable Thanks again for the help and great weekend! Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 21:55:14 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 17:55:14 -0400 Subject: Convert existing openLDAP password from SSHA to SHA-1 In-Reply-To: References: <20110819193408.GN15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Thanks guys On 19 August 2011 15:42, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar < alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Hi Lennart, > Sure, but for this case, Google Directory Sync only support plain SHA-1 or > MD5. Lennart, as Alexandre has mentioned google application do not support salted hashes. So essentially, the changes I am about to apply will weaken the password strength considering they are currently SSHA, but this look like the only way Directory Sync will be usable Thanks again for the help and great weekend! Regatds, William > Best Regards > Alexandre Alencar > Twitter @alexandreitpro > http://blog.alexandrealencar.net/ > http://www.alexandrealencar.net/ > http://www.alexandrealencar.com > http://www.servicosdeti.com.br/ > COBIT, ITIL, CSM, LPI, MCP-I > > > > > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> >> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 04:30:11PM -0300, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar >> wrote: >> > Willian, you can do so by changing *password-hash *param from your >> > slapd.conf file. This param takes one or more hashing functions to be >> > used >> > for storing password hashed version. >> > >> > As stated in slapd.conf (5) man page: >> > >> > {SHA} and {SSHA} use the SHA-1 algorithm (FIPS 160-1), the latter with a >> > seed as of {MD5} and {SMD5} use the MD5 algorithm (RFC 1321), the latter >> > with a seed. >> >> Of course the seed makes it vastly harder to crack and is hence >> recommended. So given the choice if you want hard to crack hashes, >> use SSHA, not SHA. Or use the available plugin and go to SHA2 instead. >> >> > You can add the following to make your setup work >> > >> > password-hash {SSHA} {SHA} >> > >> > or >> > >> > password-hash {SSHA} {MD5} >> > >> > This will add a new userPassword attribute to objects when they call the >> > LDAP Password Modify Extended Operations (RFC 3062). >> > >> > As of stated in man page: >> > >> > Note that this option does not alter the normal user applications >> > handling >> > of userPassword during LDAP Add, Modify, or other LDAP operations. >> > >> > After making the change in slapd.conf, you need to restart the deamon >> > and >> > let all users change their passwords (in normal fashion or forced by >> > password expire). >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 19 22:42:19 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:42:19 -0400 Subject: Ot: Router suggestions In-Reply-To: <20110819212042.GO15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110819212042.GO15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Dave I have the router let me see if I can get an evaluation unit for you Regards Dave Cramer On Aug 19, 2011 5:20 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 03:56:36PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I am currently helping a non profit organization and was wondering if you >> could suggest a router. Being a non profit lower cost is better. The >> router needs to be able to take 2 wan connections and be able to fall back >> on one of it fails. > > That sounds a lot like that router someone was asking about testers > for recently. > >> I'm hoping to have 2 lan networks to separate traffic for security. I Each >> going on there own wan. If one of the wans fail for the lan it'll go to the >> working wan. The 2 wan would be cable and dsl. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 14:51:32 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 10:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cheap HP tablets: [was: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?]] In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Futureshop is selling the HP tablet for $99.99 at the moment! That's great for the raw hardware. If only there were a cyanogen port. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 18:07:10 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 14:07:10 -0400 Subject: cheap HP tablets: [was: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?]] In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110820180710.GA5676@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:51:32AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Futureshop is selling the HP tablet for $99.99 at the moment! > That's great for the raw hardware. If only there were a cyanogen port. It's scam. All stores are out of stock. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 19:21:01 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:21:01 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer Message-ID: Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Ben will be meeting with the medevac doctor late next week to start planning Grant's return. The key factor seems to be respiration, an area where Grant continues to improve. He was breathing on his own for most of the day. He has an infection around one of his surgeries, but that is being attended to. His facial swelling has noticeably reduced. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 19:23:49 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:23:49 -0400 Subject: Free hardware Message-ID: <1662951091752197084@unknownmsgid> I have a pair of SPARC 10s with sunpci cards in them. 5 Wyse terminals with IDE headers (so you can plug in a laptop hard drive and run any x86 OS) About 5 p2/p3 class laptops. Please take them all :) Location: Brampton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 19:26:42 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:26:42 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E500A72.1050905@alteeve.com> On 08/20/2011 03:21 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ben will be meeting with the medevac doctor late next week to start > planning Grant's return. > > The key factor seems to be respiration, an area where Grant continues > to improve. > > He was breathing on his own for most of the day. He has an infection > around one of his surgeries, but that is being attended to. > > His facial swelling has noticeably reduced. I don't know if I ever met the guy, but I find myself really looking forward to progress reports. Thanks for keeping up the good work. When he gets back, we should ... ahem, "help decorate" his hospital room with geekly items. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 19:29:23 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:29:23 -0400 Subject: extending space Message-ID: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> My /home partition is almost out of space, I just bought a new drive, is there a way for me to increase the space on my /home partition buy creating a 2nd /home partition on the other drive and "double" mounting it? Can I do this on Linux to create a larger virtual /home partition? Over do I need to copy over everything to the new /home partition and only mount that under /home Thanks -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 19:32:50 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:32:50 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: <4E500B13.3070909-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E500BE2.6050401@alteeve.com> On 08/20/2011 03:29 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > My /home partition is almost out of space, I just bought a new drive, is > there a way for me to increase the space on my /home partition buy > creating a 2nd /home partition on the other drive and "double" mounting it? > > Can I do this on Linux to create a larger virtual /home partition? Over > do I need to copy over everything to the new /home partition and only > mount that under /home > > Thanks Depending on what backs /home, you may be able to grow it easily. Is it an LVM logical volume? If not, how did you add space? Did you replace drives in a software RAID array to get the new space? What filesystem do you have on /home? Details go a long way to getting help. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 19:33:40 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:33:40 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: <4E500A72.1050905-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500A72.1050905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 08/20/2011 03:21 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Ben will be meeting with the medevac doctor late next week to start >> planning Grant's return. >> >> The key factor seems to be respiration, an area where Grant continues >> to improve. >> >> He was breathing on his own for most of the day. He has an infection >> around one of his surgeries, but that is being attended to. >> >> His facial swelling has noticeably reduced. > > I don't know if I ever met the guy, but I find myself really looking > forward to progress reports. Thanks for keeping up the good work. When > he gets back, we should ... ahem, "help decorate" his hospital room with > geekly items. Sounds like a good idea. Grant is more an old school Unix guy than a Linux guy ... so, does anyone have say an old Sun Microsystems machine that could be used as a hospital decoration :-) . > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: ? ? ? ? ? ? ?digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > Freenode handle: ? ? digimer > Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: ? ? ? http://nodeassassin.org > "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, > a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab > through the sky with fire and math?" > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 19:35:28 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:35:28 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: <4E500B13.3070909-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110820193528.GA16516@watson-wilson.ca> If /home is a volume (LVM) you can add the new disk the volume group and extend the volume. Be warned if they each singles disks any one failing could be trouble. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 19:36:38 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:36:38 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: <4E500A72.1050905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4E500CC6.3080900@alteeve.com> On 08/20/2011 03:33 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Digimer wrote: >> On 08/20/2011 03:21 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Ben will be meeting with the medevac doctor late next week to start >>> planning Grant's return. >>> >>> The key factor seems to be respiration, an area where Grant continues >>> to improve. >>> >>> He was breathing on his own for most of the day. He has an infection >>> around one of his surgeries, but that is being attended to. >>> >>> His facial swelling has noticeably reduced. >> >> I don't know if I ever met the guy, but I find myself really looking >> forward to progress reports. Thanks for keeping up the good work. When >> he gets back, we should ... ahem, "help decorate" his hospital room with >> geekly items. > > Sounds like a good idea. Grant is more an old school Unix guy than a > Linux guy ... so, does anyone have say an old Sun Microsystems machine > that could be used as a hospital decoration :-) . Didn't someone just post an offer to give away some old Suns? -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 19:44:01 2011 From: asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Asaf Maruf) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:44:01 -0400 Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: <1662951091752197084@unknownmsgid> References: <1662951091752197084@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi Ansar I am interested, how much are you charging? Do the units come with adapters? Asaf Sent from my iPhone. Please reply to asaf-EkmVulN54SnhvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org Asaf Maruf On 2011-08-20, at 3:23 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > I have a pair of SPARC 10s with sunpci cards in them. > > 5 Wyse terminals with IDE headers (so you can plug in a laptop hard drive and run any x86 OS) > > About 5 p2/p3 class laptops. > > Please take them all :) > > Location: Brampton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 19:49:56 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:49:56 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: <4E500CC6.3080900-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500A72.1050905@alteeve.com> <4E500CC6.3080900@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 08/20/2011 03:33 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Digimer wrote: >>> On 08/20/2011 03:21 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >>>> Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Ben will be meeting with the medevac doctor late next week to start >>>> planning Grant's return. >>>> >>>> The key factor seems to be respiration, an area where Grant continues >>>> to improve. >>>> >>>> He was breathing on his own for most of the day. He has an infection >>>> around one of his surgeries, but that is being attended to. >>>> >>>> His facial swelling has noticeably reduced. >>> >>> I don't know if I ever met the guy, but I find myself really looking >>> forward to progress reports. Thanks for keeping up the good work. When >>> he gets back, we should ... ahem, "help decorate" his hospital room with >>> geekly items. >> >> Sounds like a good idea. Grant is more an old school Unix guy than a >> Linux guy ... so, does anyone have say an old Sun Microsystems machine >> that could be used as a hospital decoration :-) . > > Didn't someone just post an offer to give away some old Suns? Ahhh... didn't see that until after I posted... The machines are in Brampton which means they are not an option for me to pick-up. Anyone else want to get some Sun Sparc 10 machines for use (at least for a while) as hospital decorations :-) ? > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: ? ? ? ? ? ? ?digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > Freenode handle: ? ? digimer > Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: ? ? ? http://nodeassassin.org > "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, > a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab > through the sky with fire and math?" > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 19:50:12 2011 From: jarl.stefansson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jarl Stefansson) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:50:12 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: <20110820193528.GA16516-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> <20110820193528.GA16516@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: As has been pointed out without details it's hard to give concrete advice. If you currently have LVM (Centos/Fedora default) you can extend it with the new disk. If you don't have LVM and what you currently have is just one drive with multiple partitions you could format the new drive, mount it temporarily under say /mnt, copy everything from /home to the new drive, change /etc/fstab so that the new drive is automatically mounted under /home, remount it under /home and once you are sure everything is working you can reclaim the space used by the old /home, if it's a separate partition you could boot from a livecd and use something like gparted to resize another partition to occupy the space, if it's on the same partition as other things you could just delete the data which would free the space. Jarl On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > If /home is a volume (LVM) you can add the new disk the volume group and > extend the volume. ?Be warned if they each singles disks any one failing > could be trouble. > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 19:57:35 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:57:35 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> <20110820193528.GA16516@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4E5011AF.1070505@gmail.com> On 11-08-20 03:50 PM, Jarl Stefansson wrote: > As has been pointed out without details it's hard to give concrete advice. > > If you currently have LVM (Centos/Fedora default) you can extend it > with the new disk. > > If you don't have LVM and what you currently have is just one drive > with multiple partitions you could format the new drive, mount it > temporarily under say /mnt, copy everything from /home to the new > drive, change /etc/fstab so that the new drive is automatically > mounted under /home, remount it under /home and once you are sure > everything is working you can reclaim the space used by the old /home, > if it's a separate partition you could boot from a livecd and use > something like gparted to resize another partition to occupy the > space, if it's on the same partition as other things you could just > delete the data which would free the space. > > Jarl I am not using a raid of lvm, all partitions are on the same drive. I might just ended up mounting the /home partition onto the 2nd drive and copy over all the old stuff. As Neil states having one drive fail could mean trouble. Having said this, can I convert my existing drive into a LVM setup? I am using ext4 partition types. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 21:10:27 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:10:27 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: <4E500B13.3070909-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110820171027.a043b1b4.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 15:29:23 -0400 Rajinder Yadav wrote: > My /home partition is almost out of space, I just bought a new drive, is > there a way for me to increase the space on my /home partition buy > creating a 2nd /home partition on the other drive and "double" mounting it? > > Can I do this on Linux to create a larger virtual /home partition? Over > do I need to copy over everything to the new /home partition and only > mount that under /home > > Thanks Rajinder, How difficult is is it really to just re-install everything. You get a fresh install of the latest version of Linux. You work out an optimal partitioning system. If you spread your critical OS across two hard drives, failure of either drive will shut you down. Use the second hard drive as an archive, or a backup device. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 21:20:45 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 14:20:45 -0700 Subject: Free hardware Message-ID: <4595938835455369311@unknownmsgid> Everything has adapters Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: Asaf Maruf Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 3:44 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Free hardware Hi Ansar I am interested, how much are you charging? Do the units come with adapters? Asaf Sent from my iPhone. Please reply to asaf-EkmVulN54SnhvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org Asaf Maruf On 2011-08-20, at 3:23 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: I have a pair of SPARC 10s with sunpci cards in them. 5 Wyse terminals with IDE headers (so you can plug in a laptop hard drive and run any x86 OS) About 5 p2/p3 class laptops. Please take them all :) Location: Brampton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 21:21:24 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 14:21:24 -0700 Subject: Free hardware Message-ID: <3971133578539697202@unknownmsgid> And its free if you pick it up. ;) Sent from my Windows Phone ------------------------------ From: Asaf Maruf Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 3:44 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Free hardware Hi Ansar I am interested, how much are you charging? Do the units come with adapters? Asaf Sent from my iPhone. Please reply to asaf-EkmVulN54SnhvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org Asaf Maruf On 2011-08-20, at 3:23 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: I have a pair of SPARC 10s with sunpci cards in them. 5 Wyse terminals with IDE headers (so you can plug in a laptop hard drive and run any x86 OS) About 5 p2/p3 class laptops. Please take them all :) Location: Brampton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 21:25:52 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:25:52 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: <4E500B13.3070909-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110820212552.GA5988@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 03:29:23PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > My /home partition is almost out of space, I just bought a new drive, is > there a way for me to increase the space on my /home partition buy > creating a 2nd /home partition on the other drive and "double" mounting it? > > Can I do this on Linux to create a larger virtual /home partition? Over > do I need to copy over everything to the new /home partition and only > mount that under /home > > Thanks If you want just another directory for storage, then mount the new disk anywhere, say /home2 or /home/newdisk. If you want to have a single partition for some reason, then you probably need to copy /home over. Personally, I would just mount the new disk as /home2. Minimum work. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 21:26:29 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:26:29 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: <4E500B13.3070909-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E502685.6090004@rogers.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > My /home partition is almost out of space, I just bought a new drive, > is there a way for me to increase the space on my /home partition buy > creating a 2nd /home partition on the other drive and "double" > mounting it? > > Can I do this on Linux to create a larger virtual /home partition? > Over do I need to copy over everything to the new /home partition and > only mount that under /home > > Thanks > You can move the /home to the new drive. However, before you do that, you probably want to mount the new drive at a temporary mount point, so that you can copy the contents of /home to it. Once the new drive is in service, you can then free up the space used by the old /home. BTW, this indicates one of the benefits of logical volume management. With it, you'd just add the new drive to the volume and expand partitions to use the space. I did that a while ago, when I installed a much larger drive in a notebook computer. Rather than attempt to resize the existing system, I just added the new free space to the volume. The only caveat is /boot cannot be in the logical volume. I set up a server at work recently with 4 1 TB drives. I created a 2 GB slice of the first drive for /boot (yeah, I know, far more than required) and used the 1st 2 GB on the remaining 3 drives for swap. I then created a RAID 4 arrary of the remaining disk space, where I then created a LVM, which will allow me to adjust partition sizes as needed. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 21:29:33 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:29:33 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: <4E5011AF.1070505-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> <20110820193528.GA16516@watson-wilson.ca> <4E5011AF.1070505@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E50273D.1020306@rogers.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Having said this, can I convert my existing drive into a LVM setup? I > am using ext4 partition types. You'd have to back up everything (good time to install a new distro), blow away the existing partitions, set up LVM and then restore. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 21:32:04 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:32:04 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: <20110820171027.a043b1b4.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> <20110820171027.a043b1b4.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4E5027D4.8040408@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > Use the second hard drive as an archive, or a backup device. > Or /home. My home system has 2 60 GB drives. One contains the Linux installation and the 2nd, in a removable tray, contains only /home. I use LVM on the 1st drive. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 21:33:23 2011 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:33:23 -0400 Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: <4595938835455369311@unknownmsgid> References: <4595938835455369311@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4E502823.6030808@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Sent from my Windows Phone Unclean! Unclean!! ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 22:20:56 2011 From: sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Sammy Lao) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:20:56 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: <20110820212552.GA5988-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> <20110820212552.GA5988@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <7705184830068004753@unknownmsgid> Personally, I find moving the /home directory itself to be the easiest. Less maintainence work. Linux is really good like that. Sent from my mobile On 2011-08-20, at 17:26, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 03:29:23PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> My /home partition is almost out of space, I just bought a new drive, is >> there a way for me to increase the space on my /home partition buy >> creating a 2nd /home partition on the other drive and "double" mounting it? >> >> Can I do this on Linux to create a larger virtual /home partition? Over >> do I need to copy over everything to the new /home partition and only >> mount that under /home >> >> Thanks > > If you want just another directory for storage, then mount the new disk > anywhere, say /home2 or /home/newdisk. If you want to have a single > partition for some reason, then you probably need to copy /home over. > > Personally, I would just mount the new disk as /home2. Minimum work. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 22:32:06 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:32:06 -0400 Subject: cheap HP tablets: [was: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?]] In-Reply-To: <20110820180710.GA5676-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110820180710.GA5676@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Go to a store that has them and use PRICE MATCH option with them (Ie best buy)b On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 2:07 PM, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:51:32AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> Futureshop is selling the HP tablet for $99.99 at the moment! >> That's great for the raw hardware. ?If only there were a cyanogen port. > > It's scam. ?All stores are out of stock. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 22:32:46 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:32:46 -0400 Subject: cheap HP tablets: [was: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?]] In-Reply-To: <20110820180710.GA5676-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110820180710.GA5676@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Looks like best buy has them for the same price :) On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 2:07 PM, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:51:32AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> Futureshop is selling the HP tablet for $99.99 at the moment! >> That's great for the raw hardware. ?If only there were a cyanogen port. > > It's scam. ?All stores are out of stock. > -- > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 23:13:40 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 19:13:40 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: <4E502685.6090004-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> <4E502685.6090004@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4E503FA4.2080904@gmail.com> On 11-08-20 05:26 PM, James Knott wrote: > Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> My /home partition is almost out of space, I just bought a new drive, >> is there a way for me to increase the space on my /home partition buy >> creating a 2nd /home partition on the other drive and "double" >> mounting it? >> >> Can I do this on Linux to create a larger virtual /home partition? >> Over do I need to copy over everything to the new /home partition and >> only mount that under /home >> >> Thanks >> > You can move the /home to the new drive. However, before you do that, > you probably want to mount the new drive at a temporary mount point, > so that you can copy the contents of /home to it. Once the new drive > is in service, you can then free up the space used by the old /home. > BTW, this indicates one of the benefits of logical volume management. > With it, you'd just add the new drive to the volume and expand > partitions to use the space. I did that a while ago, when I installed > a much larger drive in a notebook computer. Rather than attempt to > resize the existing system, I just added the new free space to the > volume. The only caveat is /boot cannot be in the logical volume. I > set up a server at work recently with 4 1 TB drives. I created a 2 GB > slice of the first drive for /boot (yeah, I know, far more than > required) and used the 1st 2 GB on the remaining 3 drives for swap. I > then created a RAID 4 arrary of the remaining disk space, where I then > created a LVM, which will allow me to adjust partition sizes as needed. > Thanks all for your advice. I plan to move /home to the new drive. I am already using the latest distro of Kubuntu, and it's too much work to start all over just for lvm. Also as others have pointed out, I don't want to increase my exposure to multiple points of failure! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 23:19:49 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 19:19:49 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: <7705184830068004753@unknownmsgid> References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> <20110820212552.GA5988@node1.opengeometry.net> <7705184830068004753@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Sammy Lao wrote: > Personally, I find moving the /home directory itself to be the > easiest. Less maintainence work. Hear, hear! Attempts to do an "in-place conversion" will require a fair bit of 'binary magick,' and it seems to me that it's a *way* simpler thing to: a) Mount the new space some place new b) Use your existing backup mechanism to copy /home material to that new place c) Switch /home with the new place If you haven't got backups, well, that's a really serious problem that should get rectified first. If you have a backup system, then that's the *EASY* way to shift data to a new filesystem; no need to resort to anything requiring special binary data conversions. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 21 01:10:52 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 21:10:52 -0400 Subject: cheap HP tablets: [was: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?]] In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110820180710.GA5676@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110821011052.GA7994@node1.opengeometry.net> Again, all BestBuy stores are out of stock. Okey, I'll bite and show up tomorrow 11am sharp at local BestBuy. -- William On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 06:32:46PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Looks like best buy has them for the same price :) > > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 2:07 PM, William Park wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:51:32AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> Futureshop is selling the HP tablet for $99.99 at the moment! > >> That's great for the raw hardware. ?If only there were a cyanogen port. > > > > It's scam. ?All stores are out of stock. > > -- > > William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 21 02:14:06 2011 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:14:06 -0400 Subject: cheap HP tablets: [was: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?]] In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E5069EE.7060506@gmail.com> On 11-08-20 10:51 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Futureshop is selling the HP tablet for $99.99 at the moment! > That's great for the raw hardware. If only there were a cyanogen port. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists $100 for a brick is a steep price to pay! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 21:26:28 2011 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:26:28 -0400 Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: <3971133578539697202@unknownmsgid> References: <3971133578539697202@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <20110820212627.GD8539@mx1.linuxcaffe.ca> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 02:21:24PM -0700, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > 5 Wyse terminals with IDE headers (so you can plug in a laptop hard drive I'd be quite interested in those, especially if they're the sort with a serial connector.. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 21 02:28:27 2011 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:28:27 -0400 Subject: cheap HP tablets: [was: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?]] In-Reply-To: <4E5069EE.7060506-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E5069EE.7060506@gmail.com> Message-ID: > $100 for a brick is a steep price to pay! > > -- Hmm, think its a reasonable. One can use it as ebook reader. Does it have the amazon application by any chance? That assumes the amazon hardware cost more than 100 dollars William > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav | http://DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 20 21:21:49 2011 From: dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Gardiner) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 14:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: cheap HP tablets: [was: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?]] In-Reply-To: <20110820180710.GA5676-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110820180710.GA5676@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1313875309.68459.YahooMailClassic@web88606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> --- On Sat, 8/20/11, William Park wrote: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:51:32AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Futureshop is selling the HP tablet for $99.99 at the moment! > That's great for the raw hardware.? If only there were a cyanogen port. It's scam.? All stores are out of stock. Probably just out of stock. Apparently HP told all resellers to reduce the price and most are now sold out (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2391463,00.asp). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 21 13:36:07 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:36:07 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> <20110820212552.GA5988@node1.opengeometry.net> <7705184830068004753@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <20110821093607.af09bd2d.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 19:19:49 -0400 Christopher Browne wrote: > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Sammy Lao > wrote: > > Personally, I find moving the /home directory itself to be the > > easiest. Less maintainence work. > > Hear, hear! > > Attempts to do an "in-place conversion" will require a fair bit of > 'binary magick,' and it seems to me that it's a *way* simpler thing > to: > > a) Mount the new space some place new > b) Use your existing backup mechanism to copy /home material to that new place > c) Switch /home with the new place > > If you haven't got backups, well, that's a really serious problem that > should get rectified first. Christopher, My backup strategy is to use my second hard drive as a backup device. I can burn my latest backup to DVD whenever I want to. That way, two hard drives have to fail before I lose data. > -- > When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the > question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" Send Tonto out for sysadmin training? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 21 14:47:19 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cheap HP tablets: [was: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?]] In-Reply-To: <20110820180710.GA5676-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110820180710.GA5676@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: | From: William Park | It's scam. All stores are out of stock. What do you mean by the word "scam"? To me, it means a dishonest tricky deal. This doesn't look to be dishonest in any way. More like a "firesale" that created a feeding frenzy. See -- 4502 messages so far and 1121 folks reading the thread at the moment! It appears that they've sold out all available stock. They may subsequently find more stock somewhere in the supply chain, but they surely have halted manufacture of these units (there is an estimate that the Bill of Material cost to HP is $300; that seems high, but they are not making a profit at $100 retail). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 21 16:13:17 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 12:13:17 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer Message-ID: Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Grant is stable and improving. He is taking on more food, and is breathing on his own (albeit through a trache tube). The stitches were removed from his face, but much work remains to be done there. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 21 16:17:35 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 12:17:35 -0400 Subject: Honeycomb and MTP Message-ID: I've never checked the version numbers on the Android OS that came with the Asus Transformer tablet I own until now. I assumed it was v3.0 when I got it, and it's since got a couple upgrades pushed out by Asus that give it features consistent with v3.2 (and that's how the system settings read now). I've been lazy about setting up syncing the tablet data to my PC - a month ago or so I plugged the Transformer into my PC via USB and promptly got a mass storage device. I made what I thought was a reasonable assumption: I could do that again. But no: somewhere along the line, Google has converted from USB mass storage to Media Transfer Protocol. The aim is laudable (I understand that this means the Transformer can perform as a storage device to the PC while remaining usable as an Android tablet) but the results are questionable: chatter online suggests that Xoom and Transformer owners are having some trouble with the transition on Windows, and a lot of trouble with it on Linux. Technically, Linux has MTP support, but I've never used it and it's pretty clear that it's uneven, varying from device to device. So I'm posting this as a heads-up to tablet owners and potential tablet owners, and also as a plea for MTP-on-Linux information: a good tutorial for Debian users without GNOME/KDE would be ideal, but tips and tricks are more than welcome. There's also a rsync client for Android ... -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 21 17:03:03 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 13:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Honeycomb and MTP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Giles Orr | somewhere along the line, Google has converted from USB mass | storage to Media Transfer Protocol. The aim is laudable (I understand | that this means the Transformer can perform as a storage device to the | PC while remaining usable as an Android tablet) but the results are | questionable: chatter online suggests that Xoom and Transformer owners | are having some trouble with the transition on Windows, and a lot of | trouble with it on Linux. Interesting. I'm just setting up a Sansa Fuze ($29.00 at Tiger Direct for a refub 4G model). The first thing I did was go into its settings to choose MSC instead of MTP (actually, instead of AUTO which is supposed to switch between MSC and MTP depending on the host, but I don't trust it). It seems odd that the Transformer (Android) would take away MSC support and replace it with MTP support. I would have expected an option just like the Fuze has. | Technically, Linux has MTP support, but | I've never used it and it's pretty clear that it's uneven, varying | from device to device. I had a Creative Zen (V?) and had to delve into the horrors of MTP support. I ended up pushing patches for 64-bit portability back up to Gnomad2. But that was four years ago. I expect libmtp etc. are in better shape by now. | So I'm posting this as a heads-up to tablet owners and potential | tablet owners, and also as a plea for MTP-on-Linux information: a good | tutorial for Debian users without GNOME/KDE would be ideal, but tips | and tricks are more than welcome. There's also a rsync client for | Android ... Google leads me to confused postings. Some suggest the Transformer always was MTP. Others suggest that came with 3.1. Here's a possibly useful thread. Got better? Just before I read your message, I had googled to figure out playlist stuff for the Fuze. In the process I found references to mtpfs (MTP File System). Is it not useable? At one point, libmtp etc. were evolving quickly. Perhaps the Debian ones you are using are old. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 21 17:35:22 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 13:35:22 -0400 Subject: extending space In-Reply-To: <4E502685.6090004-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500B13.3070909@gmail.com> <4E502685.6090004@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110821173522.GP15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 05:26:29PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Rajinder Yadav wrote: > >My /home partition is almost out of space, I just bought a new > >drive, is there a way for me to increase the space on my /home > >partition buy creating a 2nd /home partition on the other drive > >and "double" mounting it? > > > >Can I do this on Linux to create a larger virtual /home partition? > >Over do I need to copy over everything to the new /home partition > >and only mount that under /home > > > >Thanks > > > You can move the /home to the new drive. However, before you do > that, you probably want to mount the new drive at a temporary mount > point, so that you can copy the contents of /home to it. Once the > new drive is in service, you can then free up the space used by the > old /home. BTW, this indicates one of the benefits of logical > volume management. With it, you'd just add the new drive to the > volume and expand partitions to use the space. I did that a while > ago, when I installed a much larger drive in a notebook computer. > Rather than attempt to resize the existing system, I just added the > new free space to the volume. The only caveat is /boot cannot be in > the logical volume. I set up a server at work recently with 4 1 TB > drives. I created a 2 GB slice of the first drive for /boot (yeah, > I know, far more than required) and used the 1st 2 GB on the > remaining 3 drives for swap. I then created a RAID 4 arrary of the > remaining disk space, where I then created a LVM, which will allow > me to adjust partition sizes as needed. I run with 25G raid1 / and 25G raid1 /home, and the remainder of the 4 drives as raid5 doing LVM. You can boot from software raid1, and having redundant boot is nice. If you are using LVM without raid underneath then you are living very very dangerously. I hope your backups are good and you don't value your time at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 21 17:38:01 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 13:38:01 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: <4E500A72.1050905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20110821173801.GQ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 03:33:40PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Sounds like a good idea. Grant is more an old school Unix guy than a > Linux guy ... so, does anyone have say an old Sun Microsystems machine > that could be used as a hospital decoration :-) . I have some Sun 3s, but they might cause back injuries to move very far. :) Not sure they even qualify as decorative. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 21 23:00:41 2011 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 19:00:41 -0400 Subject: cheap HP tablets: [was: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?]] In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org>, <20110820180710.GA5676@node1.opengeometry.net>, Message-ID: <4E5155D9.31358.53BB2E5@sciguy.vex.net> I am wondering if they are trying to make way for the HP Slate...? Look at: http://bit.ly/pb2hkc Paul King On 21 Aug 2011 at 10:47, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: William Park > > | It's scam. All stores are out of stock. > > What do you mean by the word "scam"? > > To me, it means a dishonest tricky deal. > > This doesn't look to be dishonest in any way. More like a "firesale" > that created a feeding frenzy. See > > -- 4502 messages so far and 1121 folks reading the thread at the > moment! It appears that they've sold out all available stock. > > They may subsequently find more stock somewhere in the supply chain, > but they surely have halted manufacture of these units (there is an > estimate that the Bill of Material cost to HP is $300; that seems > high, but they are not making a profit at $100 retail). > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ NOD32 6398 (20110821) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 21 22:59:03 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:59:03 -0400 Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: <20110820212627.GD8539-LeRHvRAqNwMrKQYAy0tNMPd9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <3971133578539697202@unknownmsgid> <20110820212627.GD8539@mx1.linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: they come with serial ports and they are very linux friendly. *www.wyse.com/service/discontd/netier/support/pdfs/8x11/NetXL.pdf* On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 5:26 PM, David J Patrick wrote: > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 02:21:24PM -0700, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > > > 5 Wyse terminals with IDE headers (so you can plug in a laptop hard drive > > I'd be quite interested in those, especially if they're the sort with a > serial connector.. > djp > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 00:50:22 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:50:22 -0400 Subject: [u-u]Re: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: <20110820201317.GG23937-MQx32DloWKtg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500A72.1050905@alteeve.com> <4E500CC6.3080900@alteeve.com> <20110820201317.GG23937@reptiles.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Jim Mercer wrote: > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 03:49:56PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Ahhh... didn't see that until after I posted... The machines are in >> Brampton which means they are not an option for me to pick-up. Anyone >> else want to get some Sun Sparc 10 machines for use (at least for a >> while) as hospital decorations :-) ? > > actually, i'm not sure he's that old-school. > > 8^) Fair enough :-) . But bottom line in all of this is, Grant has had a rough go of it recently and the question is what can we do to helping him feel a bit better? > i'm sure he'd be happier to see some old telephone key-system. Well anyone with an old telephone key-system :-) ? > --jim > > > -- > [ Jim Mercer ? ? Reptilian Research ? ? ?jim-MQx32DloWKtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org ? ? +1 416 410-5633 ] > [ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?true(1) ? ?Now, /bin/true always returns zero. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ] > [ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -- from Ultrix Release Notes 4.3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?] > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 03:23:17 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 23:23:17 -0400 Subject: cheap HP tablets: [was: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?]] In-Reply-To: References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110820180710.GA5676@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20110822032317.GA11645@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 10:47:19AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: William Park > > | It's scam. All stores are out of stock. > > What do you mean by the word "scam"? > > To me, it means a dishonest tricky deal. > > This doesn't look to be dishonest in any way. More like a "firesale" > that created a feeding frenzy. See > > -- 4502 messages so far and 1121 folks reading the thread at the > moment! It appears that they've sold out all available stock. > > They may subsequently find more stock somewhere in the supply chain, > but they surely have halted manufacture of these units (there is an > estimate that the Bill of Material cost to HP is $300; that seems > high, but they are not making a profit at $100 retail). It's old "bait and switch" tactic. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 04:02:51 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 00:02:51 -0400 Subject: cheap HP tablets: [was: WebOS dead [was: Recommendations for Android wifi tablet?]] In-Reply-To: <20110822032317.GA11645-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110811083919.GA12057@waltdnes.org> <20110812021540.GA12776@waltdnes.org> <20110812150347.GR8564@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110815160350.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110820180710.GA5676@node1.opengeometry.net> <20110822032317.GA11645@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 11:23 PM, William Park wrote: > On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 10:47:19AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> | From: William Park >> >> | It's scam. ?All stores are out of stock. >> >> What do you mean by the word "scam"? >> >> To me, it means a dishonest tricky deal. >> >> This doesn't look to be dishonest in any way. ?More like a "firesale" >> that created a feeding frenzy. ?See >> >> -- 4502 messages so far and 1121 folks reading the thread at the >> moment! ?It appears that they've sold out all available stock. >> >> They may subsequently find more stock somewhere in the supply chain, >> but they surely have halted manufacture of these units (there is an >> estimate that the Bill of Material cost to HP is $300; that seems >> high, but they are not making a profit at $100 retail). > > It's old "bait and switch" tactic. Not too likely. That would require that there be some way, after the fact, for HP to force these customers to spend a bunch more money later. There has to be money in the "switch." If HP were to say, "oh, you can't use that unless you send us *more* money," which is what "bait and switch" would imply, then: a) They'd get pilloried by the retailers that they've just screwed. b) Can you say "class action lawsuit"? c) The tablet only cost $100 - it's not that big a deal to discard it if they try to force some high fee. What this is underlining that is further unfortunate is that the realms of mobile phones and tablets are demonstrating that, if suitably layered with proprietary bits, "Linux" is not necessarily any more 'open' than, say, Windows. There's a "bait and switch" to be found there - people *imagine* that because (Android|Maemo) include Linux, that there's some freeness or freedom to be found there, and it's not necessarily so. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 04:29:15 2011 From: bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Bill Duncan, 416-697-9315) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 00:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [u-u]Re: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: from "Colin McGregor" at Aug 21, 2011 08:50:22 PM References: Message-ID: I have an ultrasparc 5 that may work, I'll check it out if there are no other ideas. I have both solaris 9 and 10 running on it. Haven't fired it up for awhile, but (if it still works) I'd be happy to loan it if it made him "feel more at home". When is he due back? Cheers. [Colin McGregor said:] > > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Jim Mercer wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 03:49:56PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > >> Ahhh... didn't see that until after I posted... The machines are in > >> Brampton which means they are not an option for me to pick-up. Anyone > >> else want to get some Sun Sparc 10 machines for use (at least for a > >> while) as hospital decorations :-) ? > > > > actually, i'm not sure he's that old-school. > > > > 8^) > > Fair enough :-) . > > But bottom line in all of this is, Grant has had a rough go of it > recently and the question is what can we do to helping him feel a bit > better? > > > i'm sure he'd be happier to see some old telephone key-system. > > Well anyone with an old telephone key-system :-) ? > > > --jim > > > > > > -- > > [ Jim Mercer =A0 =A0 Reptilian Research =A0 =A0 =A0jim-MQx32DloWKtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org =A0 = > =A0 +1 416 410-5633 ] > > [ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0true(1) =A0 =A0Now, /bin/true always ret= > urns zero. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ] > > [ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -- from Ultrix Rele= > ase Notes 4.3 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0] > > > _______________________________________________ > u-u mailing list > u-u-sb41XHKw7bdvuSlQZN9BUtrUbErFZevf at public.gmane.org > https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u > -- Bill Duncan, bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org +1 416 697-9315 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 09:39:19 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 05:39:19 -0400 Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: <4E502823.6030808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4595938835455369311@unknownmsgid> <4E502823.6030808@rogers.com> Message-ID: Ok, that was pretty funny :P. But yes, My name is Ansar. And I have a Windows Phone :) On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 5:33 PM, James Knott wrote: > Ansar Mohammed wrote: > >> Sent from my Windows Phone >> > > Unclean! Unclean!! ;-) > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/**Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 09:40:51 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 05:40:51 -0400 Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: <1662951091752197084@unknownmsgid> References: <1662951091752197084@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Just one additional clarification: its a pair of Sun *Ultrasparc* 10s. 1gb RAM and 2x80GB HD. They have Sun PCI Cards in them. SunPCI cards are basically a seperate x86 PC in a PCI slot of the Sparc (akin to a blade). that uses the disks on the Sparc 10 for storage. The laptops are too numerous to enumerate. Some of them are missing memory and Drives. On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > I have a pair of SPARC 10s with sunpci cards in them. > > 5 Wyse terminals with IDE headers (so you can plug in a laptop hard drive > and run any x86 OS) > > About 5 p2/p3 class laptops. > > Please take them all :) > > Location: Brampton > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 12:52:51 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:52:51 -0400 Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: References: <4595938835455369311@unknownmsgid> <4E502823.6030808@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20110822125251.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 05:39:19AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Ok, > that was pretty funny :P. > But yes, > My name is Ansar. And I have a Windows Phone :) Wow, so there does exist windows phone users. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 13:06:56 2011 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:06:56 +0300 Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: <20110822125251.GR15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4595938835455369311@unknownmsgid> <4E502823.6030808@rogers.com> <20110822125251.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 05:39:19AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Ok, > > that was pretty funny :P. > > But yes, > > My name is Ansar. And I have a Windows Phone :) > > Wow, so there does exist windows phone users. :) > I know such users exist, but it is a little strange to find one in a LUG mailing list :-) -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 13:54:26 2011 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:54:26 -0400 Subject: Linux Support Tech wanted, Richmond Hill Message-ID: <4E525F92.9080309@ss.org> Bill Thanis has gotten wind of a Linux Tech Support Position and request it be passed along. Contact: Don MacInnes 905-307-4357 don-7XZytnqxJB0AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org http://www.mbccs.com/ MBC Computer Solutions Ltd. 70 East Beaver Creek Rd., Unit 43 Richmond Hill Ontario Canada L4B 3B2 Phone: +1 (905) 307-HELP (4357) Fax: +1 (905) 307-9545 -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 13:59:19 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:59:19 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink Message-ID: Hello, an appeal to all the hardware buffs on the list. Is it possible to obtain just a new CPU fan for an Intel heatsink? I recently de-dusted a relative's computer, and the CPU fan is still making a horrible racket so I think the dust has gotten into the bearings. The CPU is an E4500, which I think is a first generation Core2, if it makes a difference. I haven't managed to find anything in my own searches, and I'm really hoping to avoid dismantling everything and replacing the heatsink. Thanks in advance. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 14:10:40 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 10:10:40 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110822141040.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 09:59:19AM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > Hello, an appeal to all the hardware buffs on the list. > > Is it possible to obtain just a new CPU fan for an Intel heatsink? I > recently de-dusted a relative's computer, and the CPU fan is still making a > horrible racket so I think the dust has gotten into the bearings. > > The CPU is an E4500, which I think is a first generation Core2, if it makes > a difference. > > I haven't managed to find anything in my own searches, and I'm really hoping > to avoid dismantling everything and replacing the heatsink. Replacing the heatsink is a lot better. Intel's heatsink design is barely good enough to cool the CPU and they do get very noisy over time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 14:14:07 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 10:14:07 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink In-Reply-To: <20110822141040.GS15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110822141040.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110822141407.GA31601@watson-wilson.ca> With the right heat sink and good case fans you might not even need a fan. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 14:44:18 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 10:44:18 -0400 Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: References: <4595938835455369311@unknownmsgid> <4E502823.6030808@rogers.com> <20110822125251.GR15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Its a good phone actually. Everybody at my company has one :) And yes, I am a bit of an unusual guy. On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Ori Idan wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Lennart Sorensen < > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 05:39:19AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> > Ok, >> > that was pretty funny :P. >> > But yes, >> > My name is Ansar. And I have a Windows Phone :) >> >> Wow, so there does exist windows phone users. :) >> > > I know such users exist, but it is a little strange to find one in a LUG > mailing list :-) > > -- > Ori Idan > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 14:49:03 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 10:49:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: References: <1662951091752197084@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: | From: Ansar Mohammed Thanks very much for offering these systems. Reuse is better than recycling. I've always felt that the more detail you include in your offer, the more likely an appropriate taker will come forward. | its a pair of Sun *Ultrasparc* 10s. 1gb RAM and 2x80GB HD. Those sound quite useable. It might be worth mentioning which CPUs they have and which video systems they have. I must resist: I already have an Ultra 5 that I'm not using. I notice that this link doesn't work any longer: I hope Oracle hasn't eaten too much of the online documentation. | They have Sun PCI Cards in them. SunPCI cards are basically a seperate x86 | PC in a PCI slot of the Sparc (akin to a blade). that uses the disks on the | Sparc 10 for storage. Which SunPCI card do they have? Don't take peoples comments about your phone seriously -- they're just joking. As we discussed on this list, no mainstream phone is open. The fact that Meego, WebOS, and Android are built on Linux hasn't been that liberating. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 14:54:15 2011 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 10:54:15 -0400 Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: References: <1662951091752197084@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: I also have a box filled with IO cards, (video, video capture, network, scsi, usb etc). Do you guys have a weekend meeting or something that I can bring them to? On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 10:49 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Ansar Mohammed > > Thanks very much for offering these systems. > Reuse is better than recycling. > > I've always felt that the more detail you include in your offer, the > more likely an appropriate taker will come forward. > > | its a pair of Sun *Ultrasparc* 10s. 1gb RAM and 2x80GB HD. > > Those sound quite useable. It might be worth mentioning which CPUs > they have and which video systems they have. > > > > I must resist: I already have an Ultra 5 that I'm not using. > > I notice that this link doesn't work any longer: > > I hope Oracle hasn't eaten too much of the online documentation. > > | They have Sun PCI Cards in them. SunPCI cards are basically a seperate > x86 > | PC in a PCI slot of the Sparc (akin to a blade). that uses the disks on > the > | Sparc 10 for storage. > > Which SunPCI card do they have? > > > > Don't take peoples comments about your phone seriously -- they're just > joking. As we discussed on this list, no mainstream phone is open. > The fact that Meego, WebOS, and Android are built on Linux hasn't been > that liberating. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 15:40:47 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:40:47 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink In-Reply-To: <20110822141040.GS15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110822141040.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 09:59:19AM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > > Hello, an appeal to all the hardware buffs on the list. > > > > Is it possible to obtain just a new CPU fan for an Intel heatsink? I > > recently de-dusted a relative's computer, and the CPU fan is still making > a > > horrible racket so I think the dust has gotten into the bearings. > > > > The CPU is an E4500, which I think is a first generation Core2, if it > makes > > a difference. > > > > I haven't managed to find anything in my own searches, and I'm really > hoping > > to avoid dismantling everything and replacing the heatsink. > > Replacing the heatsink is a lot better. Intel's heatsink design is > barely good enough to cool the CPU and they do get very noisy over time. > Better is a relative concept. For me, not having to waste the time to replace the heatsink would be better, even if it's a technically suboptimal solution. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 15:42:49 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:42:49 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink In-Reply-To: References: <20110822141040.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110822154249.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 11:40:47AM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > Better is a relative concept. For me, not having to waste the time to > replace the heatsink would be better, even if it's a technically suboptimal > solution. Replacing the fan on a heat sink is probably more work than replacing the whole heatsink. Turning four little mount tabs and lifting a complete heatsink off and putting on a new one and clicking it in place is less work than trying to find and replace a (hopefully) screwed on fan from a heatsink assembly. Now back when heatsinks had clips that had to be put on tabs on the cpu socket, life was a lot harder, but they don't do that on intel's anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 15:45:55 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:45:55 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 22 August 2011 09:59, Andrej Marjan wrote: > Hello, an appeal to all the hardware buffs on the list. > > Is it possible to obtain just a new CPU fan for an Intel heatsink? I > recently de-dusted a relative's computer, and the CPU fan is still making a > horrible racket so I think the dust has gotten into the bearings. > > The CPU is an E4500, which I think is a first generation Core2, if it makes > a difference. > > I haven't managed to find anything in my own searches, and I'm really hoping > to avoid dismantling everything and replacing the heatsink. > > Thanks in advance. I had the bearings go on an NVidia card cooling fan once. I pried the fan off, found a small aftermarket fan that fit the space, and put it in place with twist ties. Worked fine for a couple years until I took the computer out of service. Not sure I'd recommend this for a CPU, but it depends how long you want it to last and how critical the machine is. If the fan fails you may burn out the CPU entirely. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 16:04:59 2011 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:04:59 -0400 Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: References: <1662951091752197084@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 10:49 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > | its a pair of Sun *Ultrasparc* 10s. 1gb RAM and 2x80GB HD. > > Those sound quite useable. They were pretty spiffy when I arrived here in 2002. Only grizzle from Sun die-hards at the time was that the ATA was a bit of a processor-hog; in fact, I remember the CD-ROMs being really slow. If I absolutely didn't need it, I'd want it for the memories of debugging 8GB PostScript jobs in emacs... ;-) cheers, Stewart -- http://scruss.com/blog/ - 73 de VA3PID -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 16:44:46 2011 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:44:46 -0400 Subject: [u-u]Re: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: <20110821173801.GQ15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500A72.1050905@alteeve.com> <20110821173801.GQ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110822164445.GX986@adb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 03:33:40PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > Sounds like a good idea. Grant is more an old school Unix guy than a > > Linux guy ... so, does anyone have say an old Sun Microsystems machine > > that could be used as a hospital decoration :-) . > > I have some Sun 3s, but they might cause back injuries to move very > far. :) Not sure they even qualify as decorative. Y'know, eventually Grant is going to be recovering sufficiently to be catching up on his inbox and finding some amusement in the collection of ancient hardware folk are willing to unload to brighten up his room. I've got a DEC StorageWorks and an MAI 210, just to add to the pile. Good luck getting it all past the nurses. I trust those closest to him will figure out what'd actually be appropriate and useful, and know they can look to the rest of us for any help needed. Hi, Grant! Get Well Soon! -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 16:51:47 2011 From: bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Bill Duncan, 416-697-9315) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [u-u]Re: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: <20110822164445.GX986-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> from "Anthony de Boer" at Aug 22, 2011 12:44:46 PM References: <20110822164445.GX986@adb.ca> Message-ID: Well, for some real spiffy old hardware, I have several SGI Octanes.. ;-) Yes, get well soon Grant! [Anthony de Boer said:] > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 03:33:40PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > Sounds like a good idea. Grant is more an old school Unix guy than a > > > Linux guy ... so, does anyone have say an old Sun Microsystems machine > > > that could be used as a hospital decoration :-) . > > > > I have some Sun 3s, but they might cause back injuries to move very > > far. :) Not sure they even qualify as decorative. > > Y'know, eventually Grant is going to be recovering sufficiently to be > catching up on his inbox and finding some amusement in the collection of > ancient hardware folk are willing to unload to brighten up his room. > I've got a DEC StorageWorks and an MAI 210, just to add to the pile. > Good luck getting it all past the nurses. > > I trust those closest to him will figure out what'd actually be > appropriate and useful, and know they can look to the rest of us for > any help needed. > > Hi, Grant! Get Well Soon! > > -- > Anthony de Boer > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Bill Duncan, bduncan-m0FWaBiyNdxg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org +1 416 697-9315 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 16:55:25 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:55:25 -0400 Subject: [u-u]Re: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: <20110822164445.GX986-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <4E500A72.1050905@alteeve.com> <20110821173801.GQ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110822164445.GX986@adb.ca> Message-ID: <4E5289FD.9040109@alteeve.com> On 08/22/2011 12:44 PM, Anthony de Boer wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 03:33:40PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> Sounds like a good idea. Grant is more an old school Unix guy than a >>> Linux guy ... so, does anyone have say an old Sun Microsystems machine >>> that could be used as a hospital decoration :-) . >> >> I have some Sun 3s, but they might cause back injuries to move very >> far. :) Not sure they even qualify as decorative. > > Y'know, eventually Grant is going to be recovering sufficiently to be > catching up on his inbox and finding some amusement in the collection of > ancient hardware folk are willing to unload to brighten up his room. > I've got a DEC StorageWorks and an MAI 210, just to add to the pile. > Good luck getting it all past the nurses. > > I trust those closest to him will figure out what'd actually be > appropriate and useful, and know they can look to the rest of us for > any help needed. > > Hi, Grant! Get Well Soon! Hospital rooms often have just one chair. Build a second out of all these old machines. :D -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 16:55:42 2011 From: teddymills4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy4) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:55:42 -0400 Subject: Free hardware In-Reply-To: References: <1662951091752197084@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4E528A0E.7090004@gmail.com> Debugging 8GB postscript files? thats awesome (probably wasnt then :) On 08/22/2011 12:04 PM, Stewart Russell wrote: > On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 10:49 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> | its a pair of Sun *Ultrasparc* 10s. 1gb RAM and 2x80GB HD. >> >> Those sound quite useable. > They were pretty spiffy when I arrived here in 2002. Only grizzle from > Sun die-hards at the time was that the ATA was a bit of a > processor-hog; in fact, I remember the CD-ROMs being really slow. If I > absolutely didn't need it, I'd want it for the memories of debugging > 8GB PostScript jobs in emacs... ;-) > > cheers, > Stewart > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 17:02:19 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 13:02:19 -0400 Subject: [u-u]Re: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: <20110822164445.GX986@adb.ca> Message-ID: <20110822170219.GU15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 12:51:47PM -0400, Bill Duncan, 416-697-9315 wrote: > Well, for some real spiffy old hardware, I have several SGI Octanes.. Well while an Octane might be about a decade old, the Sun-3 is about 2.5 decades old. :) Makes the Octane practically modern hardware in comparison. The octane may even be useful, something the Sun-3 really doesn't seem to be. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 18:28:53 2011 From: andrej-igvx78u1SeH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:28:53 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink In-Reply-To: <20110822154249.GT15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110822141040.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110822154249.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Replacing the fan on a heat sink is probably more work than replacing the > whole heatsink. Turning four little mount tabs and lifting a complete > heatsink off and putting on a new one and clicking it in place is less > work than trying to find and replace a (hopefully) screwed on fan from > a heatsink assembly. > > Now back when heatsinks had clips that had to be put on tabs on the cpu > socket, life was a lot harder, but they don't do that on intel's anymore. > Stock heatsinks for core2's come with clip-on fans, so it would take about 30 sec. to swap it, assuming a replacement could be found. That said, since I can't find a replacement fan for the stock fan, I'll have to swap the whole thing out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 19:37:52 2011 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:37:52 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink In-Reply-To: <20110822154249.GT15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110822141040.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110822154249.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 22/08/2011, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Replacing the fan on a heat sink is probably more work than replacing the > whole heatsink. Turning four little mount tabs and lifting a complete > heatsink off and putting on a new one and clicking it in place is less > work than trying to find and replace a (hopefully) screwed on fan from > a heatsink assembly. But note, when you replace a heat sink you also have to clean the old heat sink grease or thermal melt gunk off of the CPU and apply new grease. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 19:45:48 2011 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:45:48 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink In-Reply-To: References: <20110822141040.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110822154249.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 22/08/2011, Andrej Marjan wrote: > That said, since I can't find a replacement fan for the stock fan, I'll have > to swap the whole thing out. Sometimes you can remove the sticker from the hub of the fan to expose the shaft and bearing, apply a few drop of oil in the hole, and then cover the area where the sticker was with a small piece of electrical tape. This may quiet the fan down for a while to give you more time to search for a replacement or wait for a deal on a new heat sink assembly. I've had fans, that got noisy, last for more than a year before they start acting up again, using this technique. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 21:27:29 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:27:29 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink In-Reply-To: References: <20110822141040.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110822154249.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110822212729.GV15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 03:37:52PM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: > But note, when you replace a heat sink you also have to clean the old > heat sink grease or thermal melt gunk off of the CPU and apply new > grease. Often the new heatsink comes with a new pad already attached. And often there is nothing to clean when the old heatsink used the pad, as I believe the intel ones tend to do. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 21:29:19 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:29:19 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink In-Reply-To: References: <20110822141040.GS15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110822154249.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110822212919.GW15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 03:45:48PM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: > Sometimes you can remove the sticker from the hub of the fan to expose > the shaft and bearing, apply a few drop of oil in the hole, and then > cover the area where the sticker was with a small piece of electrical > tape. This may quiet the fan down for a while to give you more time to > search for a replacement or wait for a deal on a new heat sink > assembly. > > I've had fans, that got noisy, last for more than a year before they > start acting up again, using this technique. I miss well made fans. :) My PC Power & Cooling fan I put in a 486 in 1993 is still running silently and as good as ever. The one I put on a Pentium Pro in 1997 is also still running perfectly and silently (both fans, since it had two for redundancy). No wonder those things came with 5 year warrenties. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 22 21:51:22 2011 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:51:22 -0400 Subject: OT: replacement fan for an Intel heatsink In-Reply-To: References: <20110822154249.GT15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <201108221751.22797.dbmacg@look.ca> You didn't say what Intel CPU you are trying to cool. What is making noise is the *fan*, which is is dusty and dirty, and now out- of-balance. Clean an oil it, and it won't make noise any more. If you don't want to disturb the heatsink, leave it in place, but clean it, and clean the fan: You need to clean the fan blades, and put a drop of light oil on the fan bearing. To do this, you need a screwdriver, and a can of compressed air. The fan is usually screwed onto the heatsink, and has a cord that is plugged into a socket in the motherboard. Unplug the fan cord from the motherboard. Unscrew the fan from the heatsink. Using a can of compressed air, blow the dustbunnies from the heatsink. Using can of compressed air, bow the dust off the fan blades. On the bottom of the fan, there will be a paper sticker. Peel it back and you will find an plastic disk set into the fan. pull open the disk to reveal the bearing. put a drop of 3-in-one oil on the bearing. Put the plastic disk back. Put the label back. Put the fan back on the heatsink using the screws. Plug the fan cord back into the motherboard. Good luck Dunc On August 22, 2011 03:37:52 pm you wrote: > On 22/08/2011, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Replacing the fan on a heat sink is probably more work than replacing the > > whole heatsink. Turning four little mount tabs and lifting a complete > > heatsink off and putting on a new one and clicking it in place is less > > work than trying to find and replace a (hopefully) screwed on fan from > > a heatsink assembly. > > But note, when you replace a heat sink you also have to clean the old > heat sink grease or thermal melt gunk off of the CPU and apply new > grease. -- Duncan MacGregor -- Toronto -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 23 18:58:34 2011 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:58:34 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting Message-ID: Last night at the GTALUG board meeting the idea of having a second annually "Smack Down" meeting in December . The topics that came up were IDE/Editors and Relational vs. Document vs. Key Value databases. Anyone else have suggestions for topics or would like to be on a panel? -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 23 19:04:39 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 15:04:39 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E53F9C7.9040601@utoronto.ca> On 08/23/2011 02:58 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Last night at the GTALUG board meeting the idea of having a second > annually "Smack Down" meeting in December > . The topics that came up > were IDE/Editors and Relational vs. Document vs. Key Value databases. > Anyone else have suggestions for topics or would like to be on a > panel? Type 1 vs. Type 2 hypervisors, or KVM/Xen/VirtualBox/LXC/UML/Jails/Zones Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 14:32:41 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 10:32:41 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer Message-ID: Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: -------------------------------------------------------------------- The surgeon removed the inter-cranial monitor yesterday, and Grant continues to improve in breathing and eating. Apparently he has excessive urine, but I wonder if that's because he is likely on a largely liquid/liquified diet. He remains unconscious, and may be so for some time, to promote brain healing due to the concussion. The medevac doctor feels Grant is stable enough to be flown back to Canada, but needs approval of the insurance company, and there are some other legal issues with the accident that Ben looks to deal with in the next while. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 15:27:18 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:27:18 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 23 August 2011 14:58, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Last night at the GTALUG board meeting the idea of having a second > annually "Smack Down" meeting in December > . The topics that came up > were IDE/Editors and Relational vs. Document vs. Key Value databases. > Anyone else have suggestions for topics or would like to be on a > panel? Gnome 2 vs. Gnome 3 vs. KDE vs. XFCE and any other window managers, and just where the hell do they think they're going with Gnome 3? :-) -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 15:59:27 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:59:27 -0400 Subject: Honeycomb and MTP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 21 August 2011 13:03, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Giles Orr > > | somewhere along the line, Google has converted from USB mass > | storage to Media Transfer Protocol. ?The aim is laudable (I understand > | that this means the Transformer can perform as a storage device to the > | PC while remaining usable as an Android tablet) but the results are > | questionable: chatter online suggests that Xoom and Transformer owners > | are having some trouble with the transition on Windows, and a lot of > | trouble with it on Linux. > > Interesting. > > I'm just setting up a Sansa Fuze ($29.00 at Tiger Direct for a refub > 4G model). ?The first thing I did was go into its settings to choose > MSC instead of MTP (actually, instead of AUTO which is supposed to > switch between MSC and MTP depending on the host, but I don't trust > it). > > It seems odd that the Transformer (Android) would take away MSC > support and replace it with MTP support. ?I would have expected an > option just like the Fuze has. Android v2.x had a switch in settings that allowed you to choose between MSC and MTP. It's not entirely clear when that option went away, but I can assure you you have no choice with Android v3.2 - it's MTP only. > | ?Technically, Linux has MTP support, but > | I've never used it and it's pretty clear that it's uneven, varying > | from device to device. > > I had a Creative Zen (V?) and had to delve into the horrors of MTP > support. ?I ended up pushing patches for 64-bit portability back up to > Gnomad2. ?But that was four years ago. ?I expect libmtp etc. are in better > shape by now. > > | So I'm posting this as a heads-up to tablet owners and potential > | tablet owners, and also as a plea for MTP-on-Linux information: a good > | tutorial for Debian users without GNOME/KDE would be ideal, but tips > | and tricks are more than welcome. ?There's also a rsync client for > | Android ... > > Google leads me to confused postings. ?Some suggest the Transformer > always was MTP. ?Others suggest that came with 3.1. > > > Here's a possibly useful thread. > > Got better? > > Just before I read your message, I had googled to figure out playlist > stuff for the Fuze. ?In the process I found references to mtpfs (MTP > File System). ?Is it not useable? ?At one point, libmtp etc. were > evolving quickly. ?Perhaps the Debian ones you are using are old. Debian wheezy has libmtp8. sid has libmtp9: I don't know if that would make any difference at all, but I can haul it in if people think it would make a difference. The Transformer mounts immediately and flawlessly on both XP and Win7 (my two work machines) and all content on both the internal memory and the microSD card are accessible. So not a hardware issue. And all the more frustrating that I'm having so much trouble under Linux. I did some experiments with Linux on Monday night, following various instructions I could find online about how to use MTP on Linux (a lot of that is old and possibly inaccurate) and how to use MTP on Linux with the Xoom (same OS, nearly identical hardware to the Transformer). In the threads a number of people saw success, and a number of others couldn't mount the device at all or got a mountpoint that had a single folder called "Playlists" inside it. I got both of the previous two results. I have more things to try, but I'm kind of disheartened. Still open to further suggestions. Examining the thread Hugh sent I realize that wasn't one of the pages I was looking at. Very similar to what I did, but does have some other suggestions I'll follow up on. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 16:14:39 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Giles Orr | Gnome 2 vs. Gnome 3 vs. KDE vs. XFCE and any other window managers, | and just where the hell do they think they're going with Gnome 3? :-) I'm certainly confused by "progress". I don't think that I want the current Fedora (Gnome 3)or Ubuntu (Unity?) on my desktop whereas the previous ones were fine. My desktop is 2560x1600; the new desktops seem to be optimized for unskilled users who are using undersized netbook screens. I've always avoided customizing my desktop or using a non-mainstream one since that's always seemed to lead to upgrade headaches. So where will I go? By December, there will be newer releases of both Fedora and Ubuntu. Perhaps the choices will be better (or worse). My desktop is currently Fedora 13 and that gets no more updates. I could move to Fedora 14 but it is already stale. Debian is possible, but it hasn't looked like the right choice: - stuff that's too old (maybe) - desktop that's no better than Fedora or Ubuntu since it is likely the same. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 16:58:13 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 12:58:13 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Having upgraded to 11.04, I really hate Ubuntu Unity. I was quite happy with the previous version. The new manager is a pain in the butt to work with. I'm probably going to uninstall unity and install the old manager when I get some time. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 12:14 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Giles Orr > > | Gnome 2 vs. Gnome 3 vs. KDE vs. XFCE and any other window managers, > | and just where the hell do they think they're going with Gnome 3? ?:-) > > I'm certainly confused by "progress". ?I don't think that I want the > current Fedora (Gnome 3)or Ubuntu (Unity?) on my desktop whereas the > previous ones were fine. ?My desktop is 2560x1600; the new desktops seem > to be optimized for unskilled users who are using undersized netbook > screens. > > I've always avoided customizing my desktop or using a non-mainstream > one since that's always seemed to lead to upgrade headaches. > > So where will I go? ?By December, there will be newer releases of both > Fedora and Ubuntu. ?Perhaps the choices will be better (or worse). > > My desktop is currently Fedora 13 and that gets no more updates. ?I could > move to Fedora 14 but it is already stale. > > Debian is possible, but it hasn't looked like the right choice: > > - stuff that's too old (maybe) > > - desktop that's no better than Fedora or Ubuntu since it is likely the > ?same. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ?Want to send emails that can't be read by someone else Some people ask "Why encrypt email?" The reason is simple: privacy. As it stands, getting access to an email message is very easy to do. Whether it's because of an email server being hacked, the email being intercepted, or even laws that allow governments to go through all electronic messages sent. You have a right to your privacy, but it's up to you to protect that right. * Encrypt with my pgp key which can be found here: * https://keyserver.pgp.com/vkd/GetWelcomeScreen.event -- For more info go here: http://www.gnupg.org/ for GNU Version ?? or here http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=pgp ?? for business implementation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 17:11:10 2011 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:11:10 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 24 August 2011 12:58, Dave Germiquet wrote: > The new manager is a pain in the butt to work with. I'm probably going > to uninstall unity and install the old manager when I get some time. There's no need to uninstall Unity (unless you want to recover some drive space). From the log in screen, click on your user name. On the menu bar at the bottom of the screen, click on "Ubuntu". Change it to "Ubuntu Classic". -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 17:13:08 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:13:08 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Last night at the GTALUG board meeting the idea of having a second > annually "Smack Down" meeting in December > . The topics that came up > were IDE/Editors and Relational vs. Document vs. Key Value databases. > Anyone else have suggestions for topics or would like to be on a > panel? How about X.org versus XFree86? :-) Actually, this is less interesting, as meeting topics go, as XFree86 hasn't released any code since 2008, which is exceedingly interesting, and rather sad, as it used to be a really vital piece of infrastructure. Quite a cautionary tale - it is remarkable how quickly something forkable can become effectively irrelevant, given suitably troublesome mistakes. Mind you, perhaps this *is* interesting, albeit difficult to have a talk on. XFree86 used to be Really Essential, and in the course of perhaps 2 years, it disappeared from all important distributions. The last place that it remained was on NetBSD, and even there, it was optional. It'll be interesting to see what happens with LibreOffice versus OpenOffice.org; I suspect that a similar dynamic is taking place, albeit for somewhat different reasons. And Mark Shuttleworth should certainly watch all of this with care; if Unity causes sufficient irritation, that could turn Ubuntu into a curiosity quicker than anyone would expect. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 17:27:11 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:27:11 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110824172711.GX15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 12:14:39PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm certainly confused by "progress". I don't think that I want the > current Fedora (Gnome 3)or Ubuntu (Unity?) on my desktop whereas the > previous ones were fine. My desktop is 2560x1600; the new desktops seem > to be optimized for unskilled users who are using undersized netbook > screens. > > I've always avoided customizing my desktop or using a non-mainstream > one since that's always seemed to lead to upgrade headaches. > > So where will I go? By December, there will be newer releases of both > Fedora and Ubuntu. Perhaps the choices will be better (or worse). > > My desktop is currently Fedora 13 and that gets no more updates. I could > move to Fedora 14 but it is already stale. > > Debian is possible, but it hasn't looked like the right choice: > > - stuff that's too old (maybe) The current release came out in January of this year. It's not that old. Debian testing is usually perfectly fine to use, and even unstable often is. I certainly run unstable on my desktop, including my work desktop without issues. I have less issues with that than many other distributions cause with their stable release versions (Pretty much proving that fixed release dates causes crappy releases). > - desktop that's no better than Fedora or Ubuntu since it is likely the > same. Debian includes lots of desktops. You pick whatever one you want. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 17:31:26 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:31:26 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 01:13:08PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > How about X.org versus XFree86? :-) > > Actually, this is less interesting, as meeting topics go, as XFree86 > hasn't released any code since 2008, which is exceedingly interesting, > and rather sad, as it used to be a really vital piece of > infrastructure. Quite a cautionary tale - it is remarkable how > quickly something forkable can become effectively irrelevant, given > suitably troublesome mistakes. Given the attitude the XFree86 maintainers were having, I am not surprised everyone abandoned them to their own issues, and went with Xorg. XFree86 was a mess, a huge monolithic monster, which made working on it very hard and not practical. Xorg is all modular and individual drivers and tools can be released when they are ready. Xorg has probably made more progress in the last 3 years than XFree86 had made in a decade. > Mind you, perhaps this *is* interesting, albeit difficult to have a talk on. > > XFree86 used to be Really Essential, and in the course of perhaps 2 > years, it disappeared from all important distributions. The last > place that it remained was on NetBSD, and even there, it was optional. > > It'll be interesting to see what happens with LibreOffice versus > OpenOffice.org; I suspect that a similar dynamic is taking place, > albeit for somewhat different reasons. > > And Mark Shuttleworth should certainly watch all of this with care; if > Unity causes sufficient irritation, that could turn Ubuntu into a > curiosity quicker than anyone would expect. Ubuntu has never been more than a curiosity to me. They have done some good things, and they have done some bad things. From a usable distribution point of view, the bad seem to be outweighing the good so far. It is a distribution I recommend people not run. Certainly I won't waste time trying to help people fix their mess. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 17:42:02 2011 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:42:02 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Last night at the GTALUG board meeting the idea of having a second > annually "Smack Down" meeting in December > . The topics that came up > were IDE/Editors and Relational vs. Document vs. Key Value databases. > Anyone else have suggestions for topics or would like to be on a > panel? How about an App Battle: Natives vs. teh Webs 'n Clouds? -- ? Scott Elcomb ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/ ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 18:06:03 2011 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 14:06:03 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: <20110824173126.GY15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Ubuntu has never been more than a curiosity to me. They have done some > good things, and they have done some bad things. From a usable > distribution point of view, the bad seem to be outweighing the good > so far. It is a distribution I recommend people not run. Certainly I > won't waste time trying to help people fix their mess. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- I'd be interested in hearing some example of what you think is good, and what is bad, about the Ubuntu distribution. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 18:08:35 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1314209315.16023.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> > And Mark Shuttleworth should certainly watch all of this with care; if > Unity causes sufficient irritation, that could turn Ubuntu into a > curiosity quicker than anyone would expect. Honestly, if I can't have Xterm within 1.5 mouse click, then that distro is not for me. ?In Ubuntu-11.04, I had to go through "search/find application" menu to get to Xterm. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 18:15:52 2011 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 14:15:52 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: <1314209315.16023.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOF+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1314209315.16023.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E553FD8.8060809@asininetech.com> On 24-08-11 14:08, William Park wrote: >> And Mark Shuttleworth should certainly watch all of this with >> care; if > >> Unity causes sufficient irritation, that could turn Ubuntu into a >> curiosity quicker than anyone would expect. > > Honestly, if I can't have Xterm within 1.5 mouse click, then that > distro is not for me. In Ubuntu-11.04, I had to go through > "search/find application" menu to get to Xterm. Alt-F2 -> xterm Superkey -> type xterm No mouse needed. :) Sadiq Saif http://asininetech.com #Entropynet on irc.entropynet.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 18:32:08 2011 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 14:32:08 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: <4E553FD8.8060809-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA@public.gmane.org> References: <1314209315.16023.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E553FD8.8060809@asininetech.com> Message-ID: <4E5543A8.9000800@alteeve.com> Sadiq Saif wrote: > > Alt-F2 -> xterm > Superkey -> type xterm > > No mouse needed. :) In my opinion the second you have to type on the keyboard you GUI has FAILED! You are now in GCML. (Graphical Command Line.) Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 18:58:04 2011 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 14:58:04 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: <1314209315.16023.YahooMailNeo-iGg6QNsgFOF+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1314209315.16023.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 24 August 2011 14:08, William Park wrote: > Honestly, if I can't have Xterm within 1.5 mouse click, then that distro is not for me. > ?In Ubuntu-11.04, I had to go through "search/find application" menu to get to Xterm. And then once it was opened, all you had to do was right click on its icon in the launcher bar and select "Keep In Launcher". -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 19:32:15 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 15:32:15 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 02:06:03PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'd be interested in hearing some example of what you think is good, and > what is bad, about the Ubuntu distribution. Good: They do very much try to make a new installation pretty much just work out of the box for many users, especially of laptops. Bad: Good luck actually upgrading a working install to the next version without something blowing up. And updated frequently breaks things rather badly due to lack of testing. I remember a few years ago an Xorg security update took out a huge number of intel video chips, which are amazingly common among ubuntu users, but not very common among ubuntu developers. Having upgraded a Debian 2.1 install through every version so far without any significant breakage ever happening, I expect upgrades to just work. In debian they do. In Ubuntu (and Fedora, and other fixed release date distributions) they very frequently do not, since there just isn't time to test properly and fix everything. Meeting the release date is more important to them, than releasing something that always (not just usually) works. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 19:33:36 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 15:33:36 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: <4E5543A8.9000800-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1314209315.16023.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E553FD8.8060809@asininetech.com> <4E5543A8.9000800@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20110824193336.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 02:32:08PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > In my opinion the second you have to type on the keyboard you GUI > has FAILED! I hate GUIs in general, so to me keyboard shortcuts are the best thing ever. Well actually I don't hate GUIs. I hate pointing devices. Way too slow to work with. > You are now in GCML. (Graphical Command Line.) My favourite. Most efficient way to work ever. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 24 21:56:08 2011 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 17:56:08 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: <20110824193336.GA15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1314209315.16023.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E553FD8.8060809@asininetech.com> <4E5543A8.9000800@alteeve.com> <20110824193336.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E557378.3020906@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I hate GUIs in general, so to me keyboard shortcuts are the best thing > ever. Then why pretend to use one and just have the terminal window open all the time. Don't even need the ALT->F2->type then. :) > Well actually I don't hate GUIs. I hate pointing devices. I've heard of people not liking mice etc. I happen to use a Trackball ,desk constraints. I'm sure many readers just winced, with the others wondering what one is! :) > Way too slow to work with. > Some how I find clicking 2 places vs typing 2+5 characters faster. >> You are now in GCML. (Graphical Command Line.) > > My favourite. Can't argue with that. :) Most efficient way to work ever. > Debatable and depends on the task. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 03:03:56 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 23:03:56 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: <4E557378.3020906-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1314209315.16023.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E553FD8.8060809@asininetech.com> <4E5543A8.9000800@alteeve.com> <20110824193336.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E557378.3020906@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20110825030356.GB15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 05:56:08PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > Then why pretend to use one and just have the terminal window open > all the time. Don't even need the ALT->F2->type then. :) Because graphical web browsers are hate to avoid. links only gets you so far. At least most browsers have shortcuts for the address line, and you can use pgup/down and space to scroll quickly. Tab between form fields is nice too. > I've heard of people not liking mice etc. I happen to use a > Trackball ,desk constraints. I'm sure many readers just winced, with > the others wondering what one is! :) I hate trackballs most of all. At least mice work well if you do happen to need to do something graphical. But I much prefer controlling things with a nice efficient accurate keyboard. > Some how I find clicking 2 places vs typing 2+5 characters faster. But it is move click move click. I can type those 7 characters a lot faster than that. > Can't argue with that. :) > > Debatable and depends on the task. Also depends on your typing speed and accuracy. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 12:38:17 2011 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 08:38:17 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: <20110825030356.GB15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1314209315.16023.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E553FD8.8060809@asininetech.com> <4E5543A8.9000800@alteeve.com> <20110824193336.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E557378.3020906@alteeve.com> <20110825030356.GB15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110825123817.GB12079@watson-wilson.ca> I am a long time mouse avoider. I'm a touch typist. Removing my hand from the home row to use the mouse slows me down. Of course we cannot avoid a mouse or other such pointing devices, but we can minimize. The Vimperator Firefox add-on makes Firefox respond to Vim key bindings. H,J,K and L scroll left, down, up and right. Ctrl-I opens Vim for editing text boxes. T opens the url in a new tab. O opens the url in the existing tab. If is not a url the text goes to Google for a search page. You can mark spots in pages and go to them, as you would in Vim. There are many more options but those are few that I use most. I started using tiling window managers. Now I'm on dwm but I have tried others. These types of window managers automatically fit all windows flush without over lap and without having to resize them. No mousing. Most window managers have their own keyboard short cut mechanism. For things like opening applications I stopped using them. Now I use xbindkeys. This is portable so no matter what window manager or desktop interface I use xbindkeys goes with me. All of my most common applications are just a key stroke away. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 13:00:25 2011 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 09:00:25 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: <20110825123817.GB12079-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1314209315.16023.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E553FD8.8060809@asininetech.com> <4E5543A8.9000800@alteeve.com> <20110824193336.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E557378.3020906@alteeve.com> <20110825030356.GB15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110825123817.GB12079@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > I am a long time mouse avoider. ?I'm a touch typist. ?Removing my hand > from the home row to use the mouse slows me down. ?Of course we cannot > avoid a mouse or other such pointing devices, but we can minimize. I'm pretty sure it slows everyone down mechanically, but for the masses point and click avoided the necessity to remember syntax Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 14:13:09 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 10:13:09 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: <20110824193215.GZ15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 02:06:03PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I'd be interested in hearing some example of what you think is good, and > > what is bad, about the Ubuntu distribution. > > Good: They do very much try to make a new installation pretty much just > work out of the box for many users, especially of laptops. > Actually I have had more luck with 'working out of the box' with Debian than I have with Ubuntu. Perhaps that's because in general I am using older hardware. > > Bad: Good luck actually upgrading a working install to the next version > without something blowing up. And updated frequently breaks things > rather badly due to lack of testing. I remember a few years ago an Xorg > security update took out a huge number of intel video chips, which are > amazingly common among ubuntu users, but not very common among ubuntu > developers. > > Having upgraded a Debian 2.1 install through every version so far without > any significant breakage ever happening, I expect upgrades to just work. > In debian they do. In Ubuntu (and Fedora, and other fixed release date > distributions) they very frequently do not, since there just isn't time > to test properly and fix everything. Meeting the release date is more > important to them, than releasing something that always (not just > usually) works. > > Big +1 from me. I have been running Debian for 4 or 5 years now, starting with Stable, upgrading to Testing for a couple of years, then up to Unstable. Never once was there any breakage, the system has been 100% working at all times. Any time I have tried Ubuntu on any machine there have been serious problems. Always some glitch to fix. Everything I hear about Ubuntu ends up being just hype. So far I have seen absolutely no reason to even try something like Fedora. I suppose diversity is a good thing as everyone always says, but Debian certainly qualifies as the Universal Operating System. -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 15:30:49 2011 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 11:30:49 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: The one thing I liked about Ubuntu is that it supported my wireless out of the box. (Using a ThinkPad X201). However debian, did not support my wireless out of the box..or I would have used that. Does debian have problems supporting newer hardware because of its release schedule? I didn't try unstable (think I just tried Stable) so that may have been the issue. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 15:41:20 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 11:41:20 -0400 Subject: keyboard-driven web browsing, WAS13th December "Smack Down" Meeting Message-ID: On 25 August 2011 08:38, Neil Watson wrote: > I am a long time mouse avoider. ?I'm a touch typist. ?Removing my hand > from the home row to use the mouse slows me down. ?Of course we cannot > avoid a mouse or other such pointing devices, but we can minimize. > > The Vimperator Firefox add-on makes Firefox respond to Vim key bindings. > H,J,K and L scroll left, down, up and right. ?Ctrl-I opens Vim for > editing text boxes. ?T opens the url in a new tab. O opens > the url in the existing tab. ?If is not a url the text goes to > Google for a search page. You can mark spots in pages and go to them, as > you would in Vim. There are many more options but those are few that I > use most. Most of the Vimperator developers appear to have forked off to Pentadactyl, and Vimperator is quietly stagnating. I had a lot of trouble with Pentadactyl initially (pieces of the screen simply disappeared), but it's now working well and is a substantial improvement over Vimperator - several small but significant fixes have been implemented. Ones I've noticed are that the status line collapses when not in use, and there's tab completion of Quick Searches (I particularly missed that in Vimperator). > I started using tiling window managers. ?Now I'm on dwm but I have tried > others. ?These types of window managers automatically fit all windows > flush without over lap and without having to resize them. ?No mousing. wmii rocks. dwm is good too. Look at i3 if you don't remap your keyboard (as soon as you hold down Ctrl i3 drops keyboard mappings!). P.S. I've seen complaints about hijacking threads on GTALUG. I've changed the Subject, but I have no idea if this is going to mess up threaded newsreaders. My apologies if it does. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 15:42:49 2011 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 11:42:49 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Does debian have problems supporting newer hardware because of its > release schedule? This is the "classic" challenge with Debian... Since stable releases take place fairly far apart, and have pretty large preparatory lead-times, it's pretty typical that the Linux kernels in Stable are somewhat old, with the consequence that they will lack support for "latest and greatest" hardware. Not that it's necessarily actually great hardware, rather just that some NICs currently getting deployed may be supported by subsequent kernels. When I got my last new desktop machine, this was an issue. I had to jump thru some hoops to get a newer kernel that recognized the network card. Basically, I went looking at the "unstable" installer to get one with newer kernel. -- When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 16:07:21 2011 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 12:07:21 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E567339.8060403@utoronto.ca> On 08/25/2011 11:30 AM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > The one thing I liked about Ubuntu is that it supported my wireless > out of the box. (Using a ThinkPad X201). > > However debian, did not support my wireless out of the box..or I would > have used that. > > Does debian have problems supporting newer hardware because of its > release schedule? > > I didn't try unstable (think I just tried Stable) so that may have > been the issue. You might be interested in Linux Mint, which has flavours based on Debian and Ubuntu (with a planned shift to being based on the former IIRC). It runs perfectly on my friend's X201 out of the box. I believe Mint is planning to shift to Debian as an upstream as well cf. current Ubuntu. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 16:06:58 2011 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 12:06:58 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > The one thing I liked about Ubuntu is that it supported my wireless > out of the box. (Using a ThinkPad X201). > > However debian, did not support my wireless out of the box..or I would > have used that. > > Does debian have problems supporting newer hardware because of its > release schedule? > > I didn't try unstable (think I just tried Stable) so that may have > been the issue. Debian does not include non-free firmware with its installer. After the install - on a Thinkpad X201 - download the missing package: apt-get install firmware-iwlwifi -- (\__/) -- Daniel (=.= ) -- http://circuidipity.com (")_(") -- http://identi.ca/dwa -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 16:27:23 2011 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 12:27:23 -0400 Subject: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting In-Reply-To: <20110825030356.GB15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1314209315.16023.YahooMailNeo@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E553FD8.8060809@asininetech.com> <4E5543A8.9000800@alteeve.com> <20110824193336.GA15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E557378.3020906@alteeve.com> <20110825030356.GB15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4E5677EB.6030700@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 05:56:08PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: >> Debatable and depends on the task. > > Also depends on your typing speed and accuracy. > So True, Mine is not stellar. :) Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 17:25:36 2011 From: adb-SACILpcuo74 at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 13:25:36 -0400 Subject: Honeycomb and MTP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110825172535.GB17017@adb.ca> Giles Orr wrote: > On 21 August 2011 13:03, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > ... > > Just before I read your message, I had googled to figure out playlist > > stuff for the Fuze. ?In the process I found references to mtpfs (MTP > > File System). ?Is it not useable? ?At one point, libmtp etc. were > > evolving quickly. ?Perhaps the Debian ones you are using are old. > > Debian wheezy has libmtp8. sid has libmtp9: I don't know if that > would make any difference at all, but I can haul it in if people think > it would make a difference. > > The Transformer mounts immediately and flawlessly on both XP and Win7 > (my two work machines) and all content on both the internal memory and > the microSD card are accessible. So not a hardware issue. And all > the more frustrating that I'm having so much trouble under Linux. FWIW, I was recently looking to provide media support for someone else's Transformer. In the case of having a server full of content on the WLAN, minidlna works nicely to provide access to the whole collection to play MP3s or videos or look at pictures on the tablet, via Android's "My Net" application. It does appear that some (AVI) video doesn't render on the Transformer, and that mediatomb (plus a gruntier server) might be wanted to transcode video to a compatibly playable format in realtime. (The application is almost unnecessarily modeful: if you're for example in video mode and go to a directory full of MP3s, it acts as if you're in an empty directory instead of showing and playing audio.) It appears that MTP is what you want when you're installing selected media into the device's own memory for playback offline, and almost misses the point since it'd involve browsing and making selections from the larger collection from the desktop rather than the tablet itself. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 18:03:59 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:03:59 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110825180359.GC15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 11:30:49AM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > The one thing I liked about Ubuntu is that it supported my wireless > out of the box. (Using a ThinkPad X201). My thinkpad's wireless worked out of the box, although I did explicitly order it with the intel wifi rather than the $10 cheaper default atheros wifi. Very much worth $10 extra. > However debian, did not support my wireless out of the box..or I would > have used that. > > Does debian have problems supporting newer hardware because of its > release schedule? Well of course. Although there have been some efforts over the last few years to release updated kernels for stable as an option for people that have new hardware. > I didn't try unstable (think I just tried Stable) so that may have > been the issue. Certainly unstable is very new, and supports a lot more hardware. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 18:06:18 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:06:18 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: <4E567339.8060403-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4E567339.8060403@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20110825180618.GD15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 12:07:21PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > You might be interested in Linux Mint, which has flavours based on > Debian and Ubuntu (with a planned shift to being based on the former IIRC). There is also the new (unofficial so far) CUT debian (Constantly Usable Testing). > It runs perfectly on my friend's X201 out of the box. > > I believe Mint is planning to shift to Debian as an upstream as well cf. > current Ubuntu. They have started to, but since their first one was 32bit only, I didn't even look at it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 18:07:01 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:07:01 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110825180701.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 12:06:58PM -0400, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: > Debian does not include non-free firmware with its installer. After > the install - on a Thinkpad X201 - download the missing package: They have an "unofficial" installer CD in non-free that does include the firmware to make life simpler. > apt-get install firmware-iwlwifi -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 22:21:03 2011 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:21:03 +1000 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: <20110825180701.GE15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110825180701.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: FWIW I have been running Ubuntu 10.04 on 2 of my machines for... possibly years, I can't remember. No dramas. I think that the thing to do with Ubuntu is always wait at least 4 months after the new release comes out before trying it. By that time, most of the fixing and polishing will have been done. Then, if there is anything you want to try, add the PPA. And furthermore, just because there is a new release, doesn't mean you need to run it. I hope all the "its broken" folks filed bugs. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 22:35:07 2011 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 18:35:07 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110825180701.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1661633104e040be469d306147d9346f.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > FWIW I have been running Ubuntu 10.04 on 2 of my machines for... possibly > years, I can't remember. No dramas. I think that the thing to do with > Ubuntu > is always wait at least 4 months after the new release comes out before > trying it. By that time, most of the fixing and polishing will have been > done. > > Then, if there is anything you want to try, add the PPA. And furthermore, > just because there is a new release, doesn't mean you need to run it. > > I hope all the "its broken" folks filed bugs. > I think that's good advice. At one point, a new release of Ubuntu broke the USB-Serial operation which our products require, and we had to do a fair amount of triage with early adopters to solve that problem. So, what is the 'PPA'? -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 25 22:38:58 2011 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:38:58 +1000 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: <1661633104e040be469d306147d9346f.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110825180701.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1661633104e040be469d306147d9346f.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: >>So, what is the 'PPA'? PPA is a way to install newer packages than the ones available in the repo for your current distro. Since some of the stuff in the 10.04 repo is older, I add the PPA of whatever newer package I want, and install from there. http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/ubuntu-ppa-technology-explained/ Very simple to use, 3 commands from terminal and away you go. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 26 00:56:19 2011 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 20:56:19 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu: Good and Bad. (Was: 13th December "Smack Down" Meeting) In-Reply-To: References: <20110824173126.GY15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3c4427232dbd7852a7e6cf68a2906b79.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20110824193215.GZ15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20110825180701.GE15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1661633104e040be469d306147d9346f.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <7023421c5eda7527915cd11ec11276b8.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> >>>So, what is the 'PPA'? > > PPA is a way to install newer packages than the ones available in the repo > for your current distro. Since some of the stuff in the 10.04 repo is > older, > I add the PPA of whatever newer package I want, and install from there. > > http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/ubuntu-ppa-technology-explained/ > > Very simple to use, 3 commands from terminal and away you go. > Very interesting. Thanks. P. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 26 13:01:47 2011 From: ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org (Ken Heard) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 09:01:47 -0400 Subject: Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet and Linux Message-ID: <4E57993B.7030408@heard.name> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Has anyone have any experience with this tablet, specifically whether any distribution of Linux can be installed on it, as apparently can be done with the Asus eee? I want to buy a tablet and these two are on my short list. (My Linux distribution of choice is Debian.) Regards, Ken Heard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAk5XmToACgkQlNlJzOkJmTeVVgCfdy2Rfxh0HcphgknauhYkTm1F 0UwAnjnacNLvJMpcRPrfRS0JL8GW2ZdN =D5eU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 26 14:23:48 2011 From: sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Sammy Lao) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:23:48 -0400 Subject: Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet and Linux In-Reply-To: <4E57993B.7030408-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E57993B.7030408@heard.name> Message-ID: Ken, Guys over at XDA got Ubuntu and Debian running. Ubuntu - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1145895 Debian - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=16807737 The Ubuntu method seems to have more work done on it. Also, I know Canonical has been working really hard to get the touch interface working. Not sure how much work the Debian team has been working on touch interfaces. On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Ken Heard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Has anyone have any experience with this tablet, specifically whether > any distribution of Linux can be installed on it, as apparently can be > done with the Asus eee? I want to buy a tablet and these two are on my > short list. (My Linux distribution of choice is Debian.) > > Regards, Ken Heard > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAk5XmToACgkQlNlJzOkJmTeVVgCfdy2Rfxh0HcphgknauhYkTm1F > 0UwAnjnacNLvJMpcRPrfRS0JL8GW2ZdN > =D5eU > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 27 01:08:53 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 21:08:53 -0400 Subject: Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet and Linux In-Reply-To: <4E57993B.7030408-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E57993B.7030408@heard.name> Message-ID: <20110827010853.GA3394@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 09:01:47AM -0400, Ken Heard wrote: > Has anyone have any experience with this tablet, specifically whether > any distribution of Linux can be installed on it, as apparently can be > done with the Asus eee? I want to buy a tablet and these two are on my > short list. (My Linux distribution of choice is Debian.) How much is this selling for? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 27 05:53:32 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 01:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Problem connecting to WiFi Message-ID: I am having problems connecting to the WiFi network in the house above my apartment. I am using an Asus PCI-G31 wireless card. When I first tried connecting with it, it worked for about a day. It disconnected and hasn't worked since. A screenshot of the network GUI (drakconnect) is at . iwconfig gives: wlan0 IEEE 802.11g ESSID:"Douchbag Express" Nickname:"localhost.localdomain" Mode:Managed Frequency:2.412 GHz Access Point: 00:1C:DF:CF:39:5C Bit Rate=36 Mb/s Tx-Power:20 dBm Sensitivity=-121 dBm RTS thr=2347 B Fragment thr=2346 B Power Management:off Link Quality:42/100 Signal level:-69 dBm Noise level:-96 dBm Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 I should probably by using iwconfig rather than the GUI, but I don't know enough about WiFi to figure out what needs to be done. Does anyone have any suggestions? (I'm currently using a shared connection on a borrowed laptop (running XP) which has no problem connecting. My system: System: Host: localhost.localdomain Kernel: 2.6.33.7-desktop-2mnb i686 (32 bit) Desktop N/A Distro: MandrivaLinux 2010.2 Henry_Farman Machine: Mobo: Gigabyte model: M61PME-S2P version: x.x Bios: Award version: F2 date: 12/30/2008 CPU: Dual core AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 svm) Clock Speeds: 1: 2700.00 MHz 2: 2700.00 MHz Graphics: Card: nVidia C61 [GeForce 6150SE nForce 430] X.Org: 1.7.7 drivers: v4l,nouveau Resolution: 1920x1080-UUltFZ4gxGY at public.gmane.org GLX Renderer: Rasterizer GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 7.8.1 Audio: Card: nVidia MCP61 High Definition Audio driver: HDA Intel Sound: ALSA ver: 1.0.21 Network: Card-1: RaLink RT2561/RT61 802.11g PCI driver: ndiswrapper IF: wlan0 state: dormant mac: 48:5b:39:be:3c:7c Card-2: nVidia MCP61 Ethernet driver: forcedeth IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: 00:24:1d:a1:e9:86 Drives: HDD Total Size: 2320.5GB (41.5% used) 1: /dev/sda Hitachi_HDT72503 320.1GB 2: /dev/sdb WDC_WD20EARS 2000.4GB Partition: ID: / size: 7.9G used: 6.1G (81%) fs: ext2 ID: /home size: 490G used: 164G (36%) fs: ext4 ID: swap-1 size: 4.19GB used: 0.03GB (1%) fs: swap Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 12.0C mobo: N/A Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A Info: Processes: 209 Uptime: 1 day Memory: 661.5/1960.5MB Client: Shell inxi: 1.7.23 -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 27 11:15:35 2011 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 07:15:35 -0400 Subject: Problem connecting to WiFi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 1:53 AM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > [...] > > iwconfig gives: > > wlan0 ?IEEE 802.11g ?ESSID:"Douchbag Express" > ?Nickname:"localhost.localdomain" > ? ? ? Mode:Managed ?Frequency:2.412 GHz ?Access Point: 00:1C:DF:CF:39:5C > ? ? ? Bit Rate=36 Mb/s ? Tx-Power:20 dBm ? Sensitivity=-121 dBm > ? ? ? RTS thr=2347 B ? Fragment thr=2346 B > ? ? ? Power Management:off > ? ? ? Link Quality:42/100 ?Signal level:-69 dBm ?Noise level:-96 dBm > ? ? ? Rx invalid nwid:0 ?Rx invalid crypt:0 ?Rx invalid frag:0 > ? ? ? Tx excessive retries:0 ?Invalid misc:0 ? Missed beacon:0 > If the ESSID you are effectively trying to connect to is "Douchbag Express" then from the results above you are in fact associated to the AP and with a decent signal level. So iwconfig is the first step in associating the device to the network, much like plugging in to a switch or hub... The next step is for the AP (or some other device on that network) to give you an IP or set one manually yourself. So you still need ifconfig and other tools like dhclient to configure the network interface. ifconfig wlan0 and see what you get. If you have an IP on wlan0 then it probably means everything is OK and maybe you have a routing table conflict between your cable NIC and your WiFi NIC. Do you by any chance have a network cable plugged in to a local networks at the same time you are trying to connect through the WiFi interface? If you don't have an ip, you could manually try dhclient wlan0 and see what happens. If you have access to the AP/router you could also see what is going on by looking at the status and logs of the AP. Also, while you do this it maybe wise to kill your GUI set-up tool. I don't have that much experience with Mandriva but when it was Mandrake I remember they used Gnome. If so, can you tell me if drakonnect is the default network manager tool in Mandriva and that you don't have Gnome's nm-applet also running?? -- Alejandro Imass -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 27 15:32:45 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 11:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Samsung Galaxy 10.1 tablet and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4E57993B.7030408@heard.name> Message-ID: | From: Sammy Lao | Guys over at XDA got Ubuntu and Debian running. | Ubuntu - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1145895 | Debian - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=16807737 | | The Ubuntu method seems to have more work done on it. Also, I know Canonical | has been working really hard to get the touch interface working. Not sure | how much work the Debian team has been working on touch interfaces. Al this is very neat. I think that there are native and chroot ports for the Asus Transformer too (I could be mistaken). BUT: I don't imagine that they are actually useful (yet?). I would not buy any tablet based on the promise that a Linux is going to be usable. Note too that Google has not released the source for Android 3.x which these tablets run. In theory, if you are going to ignore my advice, the Transformer with the optional keyboard would be the better choice since keyboard input is probably necessary. A bluetooth keyboard will work apparently, but perhaps only in the chrooted version (i.e. using Android's bluetooth support, not the Linux distro's). I do have a tablet running a normal Linux distro: a ThinkPad x61t. But I don't find that its tablets feature actually useful. For me, it is just a nice small notebook. I think that Apple did find a nice model with the iPad, one that is different from a notebook and needs different software. Funny thing: I find that I have to have a device to find out how it is going to be useful. I thought that the ThinkPad's tablet feature was going to be useful (it turned out not to be). I thought that the iPad was pretty questionable, but I find it great. I thought that the Transformer would be great (compared with the iPad) but it isn't a clear winner (or loser). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 27 19:15:08 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 15:15:08 -0400 Subject: Problem connecting to WiFi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110827191508.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 01:53:32AM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > I am having problems connecting to the WiFi network in the house above > my apartment. > > I am using an Asus PCI-G31 wireless card. When I first tried > connecting with it, it worked for about a day. It disconnected and hasn't worked > since. > > A screenshot of the network GUI (drakconnect) is at . > > iwconfig gives: > > wlan0 IEEE 802.11g ESSID:"Douchbag Express" Nickname:"localhost.localdomain" > Mode:Managed Frequency:2.412 GHz Access Point: 00:1C:DF:CF:39:5C > Bit Rate=36 Mb/s Tx-Power:20 dBm Sensitivity=-121 dBm > RTS thr=2347 B Fragment thr=2346 B > Power Management:off > Link Quality:42/100 Signal level:-69 dBm Noise level:-96 dBm > Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 > Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 > > > I should probably by using iwconfig rather than the GUI, but I don't > know enough about WiFi to figure out what needs to be done. > > > Does anyone have any suggestions? (I'm currently using a shared > connection on a borrowed laptop (running XP) which has no problem > connecting. > > > My system: > > > System: Host: localhost.localdomain Kernel: 2.6.33.7-desktop-2mnb i686 (32 bit) > Desktop N/A Distro: MandrivaLinux 2010.2 Henry_Farman > Machine: Mobo: Gigabyte model: M61PME-S2P version: x.x Bios: Award version: F2 date: 12/30/2008 > CPU: Dual core AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 svm) > Clock Speeds: 1: 2700.00 MHz 2: 2700.00 MHz > Graphics: Card: nVidia C61 [GeForce 6150SE nForce 430] X.Org: 1.7.7 drivers: v4l,nouveau Resolution: 1920x1080-UUltFZ4gxGY at public.gmane.org > GLX Renderer: Rasterizer GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 7.8.1 > Audio: Card: nVidia MCP61 High Definition Audio driver: HDA Intel Sound: ALSA ver: 1.0.21 > Network: Card-1: RaLink RT2561/RT61 802.11g PCI driver: ndiswrapper > IF: wlan0 state: dormant mac: 48:5b:39:be:3c:7c Whyever would anyone use ndiswrapper? Ralink has provided GPL drivers for years and they work great. You are doing it very wrong. And I wouldn't bother with iwconfig. network-manager really makes wifi management a whole lot simpler. > Card-2: nVidia MCP61 Ethernet driver: forcedeth > IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: 00:24:1d:a1:e9:86 > Drives: HDD Total Size: 2320.5GB (41.5% used) 1: /dev/sda Hitachi_HDT72503 320.1GB > 2: /dev/sdb WDC_WD20EARS 2000.4GB > Partition: ID: / size: 7.9G used: 6.1G (81%) fs: ext2 ID: /home size: 490G used: 164G (36%) fs: ext4 > ID: swap-1 size: 4.19GB used: 0.03GB (1%) fs: swap > Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 12.0C mobo: N/A > Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A > Info: Processes: 209 Uptime: 1 day Memory: 661.5/1960.5MB Client: Shell inxi: 1.7.23 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 27 19:56:14 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 15:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Problem connecting to WiFi In-Reply-To: <20110827191508.GF15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110827191508.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Whyever would anyone use ndiswrapper? Ralink has provided GPL drivers > for years and they work great. I tried it both with and without ndiswrapper; it made no difference. > You are doing it very wrong. > > And I wouldn't bother with iwconfig. network-manager really makes wifi > management a whole lot simpler. Not available in the Mandriva repositories. I'll look for it. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 27 22:00:19 2011 From: slackrat-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 18:00:19 -0400 Subject: Problem connecting to WiFi In-Reply-To: (Chris F. A. Johnson's message of "Sat, 27 Aug 2011 01:53:32 -0400 (EDT)") References: Message-ID: <85d3fq5xbo.fsf@azurservers.com> "Chris F.A. Johnson" a ?crit profondement: | I am having problems connecting to the WiFi network in the house above | my apartment. Will wpa_supplicant help at all? I have a Slackware system and use ndiswrapper and wpa_supplicant. 'iwlist wlan0 scan' will give you a listing of what's available -- Slackrat Flying the Flag of the English http://usera.imagecave.com/daveycrockett/englishdragon.jpg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 27 22:56:55 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 18:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Problem connecting to WiFii In-Reply-To: References: <20110827191508.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> And I wouldn't bother with iwconfig. network-manager really makes wifi >> management a whole lot simpler. > > Not available in the Mandriva repositories. I'll look for it. Found it, insalled it. All is now well. Thanks, Lennart! -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 28 01:46:37 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 21:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Problem connecting to WiFii In-Reply-To: References: <20110827191508.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> >>> And I wouldn't bother with iwconfig. network-manager really makes wifi >>> management a whole lot simpler. >> >> Not available in the Mandriva repositories. I'll look for it. > > Found it, insalled it. All is now well. Thanks, Lennart! I spoke too soon. After a couple of hours it disconnected and will not reconnect, even after a reboot. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 28 02:52:26 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 22:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Problem connecting to WiFi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Alejandro Imass wrote: > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 1:53 AM, Chris F.A. Johnson > wrote: >> > [...] > >> >> iwconfig gives: >> >> wlan0 ?IEEE 802.11g ?ESSID:"Douchbag Express" >> ?Nickname:"localhost.localdomain" >> ? ? ? Mode:Managed ?Frequency:2.412 GHz ?Access Point: 00:1C:DF:CF:39:5C >> ? ? ? Bit Rate=36 Mb/s ? Tx-Power:20 dBm ? Sensitivity=-121 dBm >> ? ? ? RTS thr=2347 B ? Fragment thr=2346 B >> ? ? ? Power Management:off >> ? ? ? Link Quality:42/100 ?Signal level:-69 dBm ?Noise level:-96 dBm >> ? ? ? Rx invalid nwid:0 ?Rx invalid crypt:0 ?Rx invalid frag:0 >> ? ? ? Tx excessive retries:0 ?Invalid misc:0 ? Missed beacon:0 >> > > If the ESSID you are effectively trying to connect to is "Douchbag > Express" then from the results above you are in fact associated to the > AP and with a decent signal level. No it's not. I should be connecting to UPJOHN. I cannot connect to Douchbag Express; I don't have the password. > So iwconfig is the first step in associating the device to the > network, much like plugging in to a switch or hub... And what args do I give it? > The next step is for the AP (or some other device on that network) to > give you an IP or set one manually yourself. So you still need > ifconfig and other tools like dhclient to configure the network > interface. > > ifconfig wlan0 and see what you get. If you have an IP on wlan0 then > it probably means everything is OK and maybe you have a routing table > conflict between your cable NIC and your WiFi NIC. wlan0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 48:5B:39:BE:3C:7C UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:6 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:7 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:1299 (1.2 KiB) TX bytes:1271 (1.2 KiB) Interrupt:16 Memory:fb000000-fb008000 > Do you by any > chance have a network cable plugged in to a local networks at the same > time you are trying to connect through the WiFi interface? I didn't, but I do now, so that I can send this email through the XP laptop. > If you don't have an ip, you could manually try dhclient wlan0 and see > what happens. Nothing happened. > If you have access to the AP/router you could also see > what is going on by looking at the status and logs of the AP. I don't. > Also, while you do this it maybe wise to kill your GUI set-up tool. Done. > I don't have that much experience with Mandriva but when it was > Mandrake I remember they used Gnome. If so, can you tell me if > drakonnect is the default network manager tool in Mandriva and that > you don't have Gnome's nm-applet also running?? I don't use Gnome (or KDE). -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 28 06:59:23 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 02:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Evolution wastes space Message-ID: I have a large mailbox on my CentOS 5 system. I never use Evolution. Except by accident: if I hit a mailto: link on my browser. The ~/.evolution directory is 120 megabytes! 90 megabytes is in a file called .evolution/mail/local/2004july08.sbd. I'm going to blow the whole thing away. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 28 12:50:16 2011 From: sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Sammy Lao) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 08:50:16 -0400 Subject: Evolution wastes space In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6425224590694264268@unknownmsgid> Uninstall evolution. I always do for my personal machines. Sent from my mobile On 2011-08-28, at 2:59, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > I have a large mailbox on my CentOS 5 system. > I never use Evolution. > Except by accident: if I hit a mailto: link on my browser. > > The ~/.evolution directory is 120 megabytes! > 90 megabytes is in a file called .evolution/mail/local/2004july08.sbd. > > I'm going to blow the whole thing away. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 28 14:06:16 2011 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Evolution wastes space In-Reply-To: <6425224590694264268@unknownmsgid> References: <6425224590694264268@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Sammy Lao wrote: > Uninstall evolution. > > I always do for my personal machines. > > Sent from my mobile > > On 2011-08-28, at 2:59, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > > > I have a large mailbox on my CentOS 5 system. > > I never use Evolution. > > Except by accident: if I hit a mailto: link on my browser. > > > > The ~/.evolution directory is 120 megabytes! > > 90 megabytes is in a file called .evolution/mail/local/2004july08.sbd. > > > > I'm going to blow the whole thing away. This is good to know. I never use Evolution too. I did a 'yum remove evolution' and then blew away '~/.evolution'. -- Eric. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 28 16:05:43 2011 From: sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Sammy Lao) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:05:43 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu now working on HP Touchpad Message-ID: There seems to be a sudden surge of interest on tablets of all sorts on the TLUG list recently. In case you didn't hear: http://gigaom.com/mobile/hp-touchpad-becomes-a-low-cost-ubuntu-tablet/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 28 17:56:12 2011 From: ori-RdxWQVHs3mjDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Ori Idan) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:56:12 +0300 Subject: Ubuntu now working on HP Touchpad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Sammy Lao wrote: > There seems to be a sudden surge of interest on tablets of all sorts on the > TLUG list recently. > In case you didn't hear: > > http://gigaom.com/mobile/hp-touchpad-becomes-a-low-cost-ubuntu-tablet/ > > > What future do you see for the HP tablet? I understand that HP are not going to manufacture them any more and I don't know who will. -- Ori Idan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 28 18:18:11 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 14:18:11 -0400 Subject: Evolution wastes space In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110828141811.446ea454.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 02:59:23 -0400 (EDT) "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > I have a large mailbox on my CentOS 5 system. > I never use Evolution. > Except by accident: if I hit a mailto: link on my browser. > > The ~/.evolution directory is 120 megabytes! > 90 megabytes is in a file called .evolution/mail/local/2004july08.sbd. > > I'm going to blow the whole thing away. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Hugh, Try setting the email tool in your browser. My browser brings up Sylpheed, which is the email tool I use. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard.gibson-PadmjKOQAFnQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 28 18:46:08 2011 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 14:46:08 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu now working on HP Touchpad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201108281446.08987.dbmacg@look.ca> Did HP make a tablet, or did they OEM one? Duncan On Sunday 28 August 2011 13:56:12 you wrote: > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Sammy Lao wrote: > > There seems to be a sudden surge of interest on tablets of all sorts on > > the TLUG list recently. > > In case you didn't hear: > > > > http://gigaom.com/mobile/hp-touchpad-becomes-a-low-cost-ubuntu- tablet/ > > What future do you see for the HP tablet? > I understand that HP are not going to manufacture them any more and I don't > know who will. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 28 22:26:54 2011 From: thomas.bruce.milne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:26:54 -0400 Subject: Problem connecting to WiFii In-Reply-To: References: <20110827191508.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> And I wouldn't bother with iwconfig. network-manager really makes wifi >>>> management a whole lot simpler. >>>> >>> >>> Not available in the Mandriva repositories. I'll look for it. >>> >> >> Found it, insalled it. All is now well. Thanks, Lennart! >> > > I spoke too soon. After a couple of hours it disconnected and will > not reconnect, even after a reboot. > > > Have you ruled out the hardware itself? Do you have another adapter you can try? -- Thomas Milne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 28 23:48:14 2011 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:48:14 -0400 Subject: Old PC's In-Reply-To: <313B6FBB-B1A5-4869-9732-27327DE1E4A8-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org> References: <313B6FBB-B1A5-4869-9732-27327DE1E4A8@freegeektoronto.org> Message-ID: <20110828194814.515b190f.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 12 May 2011 12:01:04 -0400 Sammy Lao wrote: > You can give it to us. > > We are a non-profit that refurb computers with Ubuntu. > > Most of the people serviced comes from a low income background. We teach them how to build a computer and how to use Linux for elementary computing needs. > > Many of the people at Free Geek are in TLUG. > > www.freegeektoronto.org Sammy, I am clearing out old emails here. I just clicked on your site with Firefox. Your site is being classified by Web Of Trust, as unstrustworthy. The note attached to the rating says you are a hacked domain. Your site looks interesting and worthwhile, and I have a perfectly functional PIII lying around. You should chat with the WOT folks. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 01:12:30 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 21:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu now working on HP Touchpad In-Reply-To: <201108281446.08987.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <201108281446.08987.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: | From: Duncan MacGregor | Did HP make a tablet, or did they OEM one? The acronym seems to be "ODM" in this world. There are only a small number of large ODMs and HP surely contracted one of them to make the HP TouchPad. But HP did much of the software engineering -- it isn't sold with another brand. This is just like Apple. One of Apple's ODM's is famously Foxconn. If there are other tablets with similar guts, it should be possible to find out by googling for "Snapdragon" -- most other high-end tablets use "Tegra" processors. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 01:23:21 2011 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 21:23:21 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu now working on HP Touchpad In-Reply-To: References: <201108281446.08987.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <201108282123.21510.dbmacg@look.ca> Ok, OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer So: ODM = Original Manufacturer Like Lenovo and IBM for Thinkpads. Dunc On Sunday 28 August 2011 21:12:30 you wrote: > | From: Duncan MacGregor > | > | Did HP make a tablet, or did they OEM one? > > The acronym seems to be "ODM" in this world. There are only a small > number of large ODMs and HP surely contracted one of them to make the > HP TouchPad. But HP did much of the software engineering -- it isn't > sold with another brand. > > This is just like Apple. One of Apple's ODM's is famously Foxconn. > > If there are other tablets with similar guts, it should be possible to > find out by googling for "Snapdragon" -- most other high-end tablets use > "Tegra" processors. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 01:33:24 2011 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 21:33:24 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu now working on HP Touchpad In-Reply-To: <201108282123.21510.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <201108281446.08987.dbmacg@look.ca> <201108282123.21510.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: On 28 August 2011 21:23, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > Ok, OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer > So: ODM = Original ? ? ? ? ?Manufacturer Design? -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 01:54:18 2011 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 21:54:18 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu now working on HP Touchpad In-Reply-To: References: <201108282123.21510.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <201108282154.18371.dbmacg@look.ca> On Sunday 28 August 2011 21:33:24 you wrote: > On 28 August 2011 21:23, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > > Ok, OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer > > So: ODM = Original Manufacturer > > Design? > Thank you. So HP, in this arrangement would have only modest connection to the actual 'Intellectual property' associated with the device and HP would be mostly lending the value of their 'Brand' to the product. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 03:15:45 2011 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 23:15:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu now working on HP Touchpad In-Reply-To: <201108282154.18371.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <201108282123.21510.dbmacg@look.ca> <201108282154.18371.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: | From: Duncan MacGregor | > | | Thank you. So HP, in this arrangement would have only modest | connection to the actual 'Intellectual property' associated with the | device and HP would be mostly lending the value of their 'Brand' to the | product. If you accept the Wikipedia definition. ODMs seem to do a lot of the hardware engineering, but not all. They don't do the software (example: Apple and Foxconn, an extreme case). I don't know about the HP TouchPad hardware, but HP very clearly engineered the software stack (if you include Palm as part of HP, which you should) called WebOS. ODMs have little or no consumer brand exposure/recognition. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 04:46:42 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 00:46:42 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu now working on HP Touchpad In-Reply-To: References: <201108281446.08987.dbmacg@look.ca> <201108282123.21510.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <20110829044642.GA10746@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 09:33:24PM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: > On 28 August 2011 21:23, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > > Ok, OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer > > So: ODM = Original ? ? ? ? ?Manufacturer > > Design? > Yes. OEM just makes products according to specs from brand-name clients. ODM does design also, and brand-name clients choose amongst the proposals submitted. Who owns what will depend on the details of contract. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 08:06:47 2011 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 04:06:47 -0400 Subject: Any smartphone-rooting-services and CyanogenMod installers? Message-ID: <20110829080647.GA9913@waltdnes.org> Last week I got an HTC Desire HD from an Ebay reseller. First, it mostly works great. But there are a few changes I'd like to make, so I'm looking into rooting it and installing CyanogenMod. I assume that the phone is unlocked but not rooted. I believe that rooting and unlocking are 2 separate items. To further complicate things, Telus puts in some tweaks so rooting is different versus an ordinary HTC Desire HD, according to... http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile/how-to-root-telus-htc-desire-hd/ Do you know anybody who will root and install CyanogenMod? Even though I do run linux, this is new territory for me. I'm willing to pay a reasonable amount. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 12:48:57 2011 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 08:48:57 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Grant is no longer on a respirator, he is breathing on his own. They are providing enriched oxygen through a hood, to help with healing. The CT scans of his head show noticeable improvements. Ben says he is more restless when he talks to him, even though he is still unconscious. ... The insurance company is tentatively looking at flying Grant to Toronto around the second week of September. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 12:58:13 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 08:58:13 -0400 Subject: Grant Officer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E5B8CE5.9080609@alteeve.com> On 08/29/2011 08:48 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Another update re: Grant Officer via Jim Mercer: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Grant is no longer on a respirator, he is breathing on his own. They > are providing enriched oxygen through a hood, to help with healing. > > The CT scans of his head show noticeable improvements. > > Ben says he is more restless when he talks to him, even though he is > still unconscious. > > ... > > The insurance company is tentatively looking at flying Grant to > Toronto around the second week of September. Great news! Please keep up the good work. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 15:49:31 2011 From: sammy.lao-OvU2V46eqDdvgyatUqoQW0B+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Sammy Lao) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:49:31 -0400 Subject: Any smartphone-rooting-services and CyanogenMod installers? In-Reply-To: <20110829080647.GA9913-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20110829080647.GA9913@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20110829153856.GA5855@pogoplugpink.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Walter, do you really need it to be rooted? There aren't many compelling reasons to root an android phone anymore. CyanogenMod is nice, but, there is a certain amount of techie-ness to update it after you have it installed. My general recommendation for android phones is that people should not root it unless they want to spend time tinkering with it. If you do want to tinker, I recommend that you do try rooting it yourself. It's a good exercise when you need to update Cyanogenmod. The rootkit may not work with Linux tho. ADB works great, but not sure about HTC Sync. On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 04:06:47AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Last week I got an HTC Desire HD from an Ebay reseller. First, it > mostly works great. But there are a few changes I'd like to make, so > I'm looking into rooting it and installing CyanogenMod. I assume that > the phone is unlocked but not rooted. I believe that rooting and > unlocking are 2 separate items. To further complicate things, Telus > puts in some tweaks so rooting is different versus an ordinary HTC > Desire HD, according to... > http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile/how-to-root-telus-htc-desire-hd/ > > Do you know anybody who will root and install CyanogenMod? Even > though I do run linux, this is new territory for me. I'm willing to pay > a reasonable amount. > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 15:54:14 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 08:54:14 -0700 Subject: Any smartphone-rooting-services and CyanogenMod installers? In-Reply-To: <20110829153856.GA5855-Z+pK6GCb6EWdIoqhcP47WetNOYkX6+2uxDRhNaKAnwpYzD5mSbZInQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20110829080647.GA9913@waltdnes.org> <20110829153856.GA5855@pogoplugpink.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: The main reason I would want root is to run one of the extended iptables-based firewall apps, such as "droidwall" OpenVPN support also requires root. AFAIK, there's no way to do so without rooting the phone. Android needs a build-in sudo or something. On Aug 29, 2011 8:50 AM, "Sammy Lao" wrote: > Walter, > do you really need it to be rooted? There aren't many compelling reasons to root an android phone anymore. CyanogenMod is nice, but, there is a certain amount of techie-ness to update it after you have it installed. > > My general recommendation for android phones is that people should not root it unless they want to spend time tinkering with it. > > If you do want to tinker, I recommend that you do try rooting it yourself. It's a good exercise when you need to update Cyanogenmod. The rootkit may not work with Linux tho. ADB works great, but not sure about HTC Sync. > > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 04:06:47AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >> Last week I got an HTC Desire HD from an Ebay reseller. First, it >> mostly works great. But there are a few changes I'd like to make, so >> I'm looking into rooting it and installing CyanogenMod. I assume that >> the phone is unlocked but not rooted. I believe that rooting and >> unlocking are 2 separate items. To further complicate things, Telus >> puts in some tweaks so rooting is different versus an ordinary HTC >> Desire HD, according to... >> http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile/how-to-root-telus-htc-desire-hd/ >> >> Do you know anybody who will root and install CyanogenMod? Even >> though I do run linux, this is new territory for me. I'm willing to pay >> a reasonable amount. >> >> -- >> Walter Dnes >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 16:01:04 2011 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:01:04 -0400 Subject: Any smartphone-rooting-services and CyanogenMod installers? In-Reply-To: References: <20110829080647.GA9913@waltdnes.org> <20110829153856.GA5855@pogoplugpink.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: This is TLUG; *everybody* here would benefit from rooting their Android phones. - Fabio On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 11:54, Tyler Aviss wrote: > The main reason I would want root is to run one of the extended > iptables-based firewall apps, such as "droidwall" > > OpenVPN support also requires root. > > AFAIK, there's no way to do so without rooting the phone. Android needs a > build-in sudo or something. > > On Aug 29, 2011 8:50 AM, "Sammy Lao" wrote: >> Walter, >> do you really need it to be rooted? There aren't many compelling reasons >> to root an android phone anymore. CyanogenMod is nice, but, there is a >> certain amount of techie-ness to update it after you have it installed. >> >> My general recommendation for android phones is that people should not >> root it unless they want to spend time tinkering with it. >> >> If you do want to tinker, I recommend that you do try rooting it yourself. >> It's a good exercise when you need to update Cyanogenmod. The rootkit may >> not work with Linux tho. ADB works great, but not sure about HTC Sync. >> >> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 04:06:47AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >>> Last week I got an HTC Desire HD from an Ebay reseller. First, it >>> mostly works great. But there are a few changes I'd like to make, so >>> I'm looking into rooting it and installing CyanogenMod. I assume that >>> the phone is unlocked but not rooted. I believe that rooting and >>> unlocking are 2 separate items. To further complicate things, Telus >>> puts in some tweaks so rooting is different versus an ordinary HTC >>> Desire HD, according to... >>> http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile/how-to-root-telus-htc-desire-hd/ >>> >>> Do you know anybody who will root and install CyanogenMod? Even >>> though I do run linux, this is new territory for me. I'm willing to pay >>> a reasonable amount. >>> >>> -- >>> Walter Dnes >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 16:01:53 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:01:53 -0400 Subject: Any smartphone-rooting-services and CyanogenMod installers? In-Reply-To: References: <20110829080647.GA9913@waltdnes.org> <20110829153856.GA5855@pogoplugpink.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <4E5BB7F1.7020702@gmail.com> I have same phone and bought it because people have installed ubuntu on it in a chroot. (it has enough ram to make it work). unlocked and rooted are different. unlocked is to move to another carrier. rooted is to install other stuff, modify rom , etc. There is also rom update to OS and rom update to "radio". You usually update the OS rom, and only update the "radio rom" if you need better reception and battery life and the radio rom actual works better. There is a android 3.0 port to the htc desire HD (perhaps only phone that has it), which is kind of cool as well. -tl On 08/29/2011 11:54 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > The main reason I would want root is to run one of the extended > iptables-based firewall apps, such as "droidwall" > > OpenVPN support also requires root. > > AFAIK, there's no way to do so without rooting the phone. Android > needs a build-in sudo or something. > > On Aug 29, 2011 8:50 AM, "Sammy Lao" > wrote: > > Walter, > > do you really need it to be rooted? There aren't many compelling > reasons to root an android phone anymore. CyanogenMod is nice, but, > there is a certain amount of techie-ness to update it after you have > it installed. > > > > My general recommendation for android phones is that people should > not root it unless they want to spend time tinkering with it. > > > > If you do want to tinker, I recommend that you do try rooting it > yourself. It's a good exercise when you need to update Cyanogenmod. > The rootkit may not work with Linux tho. ADB works great, but not sure > about HTC Sync. > > > > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 04:06:47AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> Last week I got an HTC Desire HD from an Ebay reseller. First, it > >> mostly works great. But there are a few changes I'd like to make, so > >> I'm looking into rooting it and installing CyanogenMod. I assume that > >> the phone is unlocked but not rooted. I believe that rooting and > >> unlocking are 2 separate items. To further complicate things, Telus > >> puts in some tweaks so rooting is different versus an ordinary HTC > >> Desire HD, according to... > >> http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile/how-to-root-telus-htc-desire-hd/ > >> > >> Do you know anybody who will root and install CyanogenMod? Even > >> though I do run linux, this is new territory for me. I'm willing to pay > >> a reasonable amount. > >> > >> -- > >> Walter Dnes > > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 16:19:05 2011 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:19:05 -0400 Subject: Android phone repair Message-ID: Since we're talking about Android phones... A few months ago I got tired of the protective case on my rooted HTC Desire, and took it off. I was cycling to work one day soon after and heard a sound like I'd run over a strap of metal; I circled back to investigate and found my phone divided into its three component parts, front, back and battery. There was a small scratch in one corner of the case, but no damage to the screen. I re-assembled it and continued using it with *no* noticeable effects. (I put the protective case back on.) On Friday, the phone slipped out of my hands in my apartment from a height of *possibly* half a metre and landed flat on its back *in* the protective case on the laminate floor; the life had gone out of the screen. If I press with varying degrees of pressure (sometimes a lot) with a knuckle from one hand against the middle of the battery, *through* the case, contact is made somewhere inside, I get a screen that works and can type with the other hand. (This is very inconvenient.) I wadded up a piece of paper and stuck it inside the case against the battery, but this didn't work for long. There are videos on YouTube about disassembling my particular model... does this sound like something that can be fixed by doing that? Is it something with which someone here has experience? If I haven't already voided the warranty by installing CyanogenMod, I'm pretty sure it's been more than a year since I bought it. I've also replaced a cooling fan in my ThinkPad, so I'm not afraid of taking the thing apart. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 17:54:28 2011 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:54:28 -0700 Subject: Android phone repair In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Along these lines... I got a USB micro adaptor that had a bad pinout or short (thanks XS cargo). It fragged the charging/USB circuit in my milestone, so it now recognizes the cable is connected, but does not show up on a PC and only actually charges on a charger which supplies > required current. There's a plug in the battery area that may be for charging or an antenna (not sure, which). Anyone know a way to fix the charging or use that little plug I'm the back? On Aug 29, 2011 9:19 AM, "Michael Hill" wrote: > Since we're talking about Android phones... > > A few months ago I got tired of the protective case on my rooted HTC > Desire, and took it off. I was cycling to work one day soon after and > heard a sound like I'd run over a strap of metal; I circled back to > investigate and found my phone divided into its three component parts, > front, back and battery. There was a small scratch in one corner of > the case, but no damage to the screen. I re-assembled it and > continued using it with *no* noticeable effects. (I put the > protective case back on.) > > On Friday, the phone slipped out of my hands in my apartment from a > height of *possibly* half a metre and landed flat on its back *in* the > protective case on the laminate floor; the life had gone out of the > screen. If I press with varying degrees of pressure (sometimes a lot) > with a knuckle from one hand against the middle of the battery, > *through* the case, contact is made somewhere inside, I get a screen > that works and can type with the other hand. (This is very > inconvenient.) I wadded up a piece of paper and stuck it inside the > case against the battery, but this didn't work for long. > > There are videos on YouTube about disassembling my particular model... > does this sound like something that can be fixed by doing that? Is it > something with which someone here has experience? If I haven't > already voided the warranty by installing CyanogenMod, I'm pretty sure > it's been more than a year since I bought it. I've also replaced a > cooling fan in my ThinkPad, so I'm not afraid of taking the thing > apart. > > Mike > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 19:09:18 2011 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:09:18 -0400 Subject: startx while specifying configuration? Message-ID: <20110829190918.GA6141@yam.witteman.ca> I have an nVidia-based video card. Most of the time, I would rather use the nouveau driver - it works, it's snappy, and it doesn't take any hoop-jumping to "just work". It doesn't do OpenGL, however, which I occasionally want. I'd like to specify with xorg.conf to use when I startx, rather than "mv"-ing configuration files around. Is there a way to do this? man startx and man xinitrc provide no guidance, and I couldn't find anything with the aid of Google. Thanks! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 19:41:29 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:41:29 -0400 Subject: startx while specifying configuration? In-Reply-To: <20110829190918.GA6141-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110829190918.GA6141@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20110829194129.GL15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 03:09:18PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have an nVidia-based video card. Most of the time, I would rather use > the nouveau driver - it works, it's snappy, and it doesn't take any > hoop-jumping to "just work". It doesn't do OpenGL, however, which I > occasionally want. I'd like to specify with xorg.conf to use when I > startx, rather than "mv"-ing configuration files around. Is there a way > to do this? > > man startx and man xinitrc provide no guidance, and I couldn't find > anything with the aid of Google. In the past you could do: startx -- Xserverarguments Like: startx -- :1 That would launch the X server with :1 as an argument. So if the 'X' has an option for configfile to use, that should work there. So startx options go before '--' and X server options go after '--'. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 21:05:45 2011 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: startx while specifying configuration? In-Reply-To: <20110829190918.GA6141-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20110829190918.GA6141@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <1314651945.80355.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Strange that it works for you.? My machine crashes during boot if I have 'nouveau' driver installed. -- William ----- Original Message ----- > From: William O'Higgins Witteman > To: tlug > Cc: > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 3:09:18 PM > Subject: [TLUG]: startx while specifying configuration? > > I have an nVidia-based video card.? Most of the time, I would rather use > the nouveau driver - it works, it's snappy, and it doesn't take any > hoop-jumping to "just work".? It doesn't do OpenGL, however, which > I > occasionally want.? I'd like to specify with xorg.conf to use when I > startx, rather than "mv"-ing configuration files around.? Is there a > way > to do this? > > man startx and man xinitrc provide no guidance, and I couldn't find > anything with the aid of Google. > > Thanks! > -- > > yours, > > William > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 29 21:33:06 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 17:33:06 -0400 Subject: startx while specifying configuration? In-Reply-To: <1314651945.80355.YahooMailNeo-CtIdhJAQs3OORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20110829190918.GA6141@yam.witteman.ca> <1314651945.80355.YahooMailNeo@web113401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110829213306.GM15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 02:05:45PM -0700, William Park wrote: > Strange that it works for you.? My machine crashes during boot if I have 'nouveau' driver installed. Well the nvidia binary driver can not be used after loading nouveau. A reboot is required. nouveau leaves the card in a state the nvidia driver simply doesn't tolerate. On debian the nvidia-glx package blacklists the nouveau kernel module since they just don't work together. It is one or the other in that case. If you were switching between nouveau and vesa, then it might work. Or two configs with different display options but the same driver choice. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 30 11:12:14 2011 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 07:12:14 -0400 Subject: startx while specifying configuration? In-Reply-To: <20110829194129.GL15312-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20110829190918.GA6141@yam.witteman.ca> <20110829194129.GL15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 29 August 2011 15:41, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 03:09:18PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> I have an nVidia-based video card. ?Most of the time, I would rather use >> the nouveau driver - it works, it's snappy, and it doesn't take any >> hoop-jumping to "just work". ?It doesn't do OpenGL, however, which I >> occasionally want. ?I'd like to specify with xorg.conf to use when I >> startx, rather than "mv"-ing configuration files around. ?Is there a way >> to do this? >> >> man startx and man xinitrc provide no guidance, and I couldn't find >> anything with the aid of Google. > > In the past you could do: > > startx -- Xserverarguments > > Like: startx -- :1 > > That would launch the X server with :1 as an argument. ?So if the 'X' > has an option for configfile to use, that should work there. > > So startx options go before '--' and X server options go after '--'. The Xorg man page says this: -config file Read the server configuration from file. This option will work for any file when the server is run as root (i.e, with real-uid 0), or for files relative to a directory in the config search path for all other users. So that should work something like "startx -- -config ./Xconfs/dualhead.txt". I say "should" because, while I think I've used it in the past, the handling of X and its associated files has changed immensely since the emergence of Xorg. Good luck. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 30 17:28:11 2011 From: ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org (Ken Heard) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 13:28:11 -0400 Subject: Old PC's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E5D1DAB.2080105@heard.name> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Another organization in Toronto which recycles old computers is http://www.rebootcanada.ca/ Ken Heard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAk5dHaoACgkQlNlJzOkJmTe4GACfX9+T/0pmO8sLwa/5qQagP4YH zqgAnR61y/o42bP43GQw98azugxc9nZD =tXys -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 30 19:48:15 2011 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 15:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Problem connecting to WiFii In-Reply-To: References: <20110827191508.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> I spoke too soon. After a couple of hours it disconnected and will >> not reconnect, even after a reboot. >> > Have you ruled out the hardware itself? Do you have another adapter you can > try? I was beginning to wonder about the card itself. I'll pick up another card in a day or two and try that. Are there any recommended cards, or cards to stay away from? -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 30 20:04:26 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 16:04:26 -0400 Subject: Problem connecting to WiFii In-Reply-To: References: <20110827191508.GF15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20110830200426.GN15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 03:48:15PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Thomas Milne wrote: > > >On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> I spoke too soon. After a couple of hours it disconnected and will > >> not reconnect, even after a reboot. > >> > >Have you ruled out the hardware itself? Do you have another adapter you can > >try? > > I was beginning to wonder about the card itself. I'll pick up > another card in a day or two and try that. > > Are there any recommended cards, or cards to stay away from? I used to have connection problems where rebooting the wifi AP would help. Eventually I replaced the AP and the problem went away. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 31 03:04:42 2011 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:04:42 -0400 Subject: For any data recovery experts out there... Message-ID: <4E5DA4CA.2020802@alteeve.com> I know someone who has/had a lot of picture files on an 8M Nexxtech usb flash drive. Unfortunately, when it is place in a Windows computer, it claims the drive is uninitiated and wants to format it. Is there any hope of recovering the pictures? (I'm guessing not... :( ) Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 31 03:08:40 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:08:40 -0400 Subject: For any data recovery experts out there... In-Reply-To: <4E5DA4CA.2020802-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E5DA4CA.2020802@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4E5DA5B8.5020207@gmail.com> exact same thing happened to me! i downloaded a free ware program that scans disk for files, i think it was one of those undelete programs, i got back 80%+. -tl On 08/30/2011 11:04 PM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > I know someone who has/had a lot of picture files on an 8M Nexxtech > usb flash drive. > > Unfortunately, when it is place in a Windows computer, it claims the > drive is uninitiated and wants to format it. > > Is there any hope of recovering the pictures? > (I'm guessing not... :( ) > > Lance > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 31 03:14:57 2011 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:14:57 -0400 Subject: For any data recovery experts out there... In-Reply-To: <4E5DA5B8.5020207-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E5DA4CA.2020802@alteeve.com> <4E5DA5B8.5020207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E5DA731.3060809@alteeve.com> Ted wrote: > exact same thing happened to me! i downloaded a free ware program that > scans disk for files, i think it was one of those undelete programs, > i got back 80%+. > Thanks, I'll have to try that. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 31 03:15:11 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:15:11 -0400 Subject: For any data recovery experts out there... In-Reply-To: <4E5DA4CA.2020802-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E5DA4CA.2020802@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4E5DA73F.8080200@alteeve.com> On 08/30/2011 11:04 PM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > I know someone who has/had a lot of picture files on an 8M Nexxtech usb > flash drive. > > Unfortunately, when it is place in a Windows computer, it claims the > drive is uninitiated and wants to format it. > > Is there any hope of recovering the pictures? > (I'm guessing not... :( ) > > Lance If you can bring it by the office, I'll take a look at it. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 31 03:17:30 2011 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:17:30 -0400 Subject: For any data recovery experts out there... In-Reply-To: <4E5DA731.3060809-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E5DA4CA.2020802@alteeve.com> <4E5DA5B8.5020207@gmail.com> <4E5DA731.3060809@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4E5DA7CA.6080106@alteeve.com> On 08/30/2011 11:14 PM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > Ted wrote: >> exact same thing happened to me! i downloaded a free ware program that >> scans disk for files, i think it was one of those undelete programs, >> i got back 80%+. >> > > Thanks, > > I'll have to try that. > > Lance Before you do, mount it under linux (or at least until it's seen by fdisk) and then 'dd' the data to a file on your machine. This way, if the shareware cacks out, you can try again. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Freenode handle: digimer Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org "At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially, a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 31 03:40:14 2011 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ted) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:40:14 -0400 Subject: For any data recovery experts out there... In-Reply-To: <4E5DA7CA.6080106-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E5DA4CA.2020802@alteeve.com> <4E5DA5B8.5020207@gmail.com> <4E5DA731.3060809@alteeve.com> <4E5DA7CA.6080106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4E5DAD1E.9040203@gmail.com> yup i did the dd first too. until i found the share ware, i was going to scan the bytes for jpg headers and try to get bytes back to jpg's. since it likely did a quick-format, most of the bytes of the pictures are on there, and most likely sequential. I actually looked at the raw bytes in a program and saw the jpg images, but saw breaks in the data, probably disk blocks, but then i googled, found that program, and it did its thing. Email me if you don't have luck find program, and i can see if i still have it, it was 2 years ago, so its not fresh in my mind. When you do dd, look at the bytes with od (or similar), make sure its not a 0's or some identical patterned data, i.e. 0x80, or whatever, that means it did a full format, then your SOL. -tl On 08/30/2011 11:17 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 08/30/2011 11:14 PM, Lance F. Squire wrote: >> Ted wrote: >>> exact same thing happened to me! i downloaded a free ware program that >>> scans disk for files, i think it was one of those undelete programs, >>> i got back 80%+. >>> >> Thanks, >> >> I'll have to try that. >> >> Lance > Before you do, mount it under linux (or at least until it's seen by > fdisk) and then 'dd' the data to a file on your machine. This way, if > the shareware cacks out, you can try again. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 31 12:44:12 2011 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 08:44:12 -0400 Subject: For any data recovery experts out there... In-Reply-To: <4E5DAD1E.9040203-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E5DA4CA.2020802@alteeve.com> <4E5DA5B8.5020207@gmail.com> <4E5DA731.3060809@alteeve.com> <4E5DA7CA.6080106@alteeve.com> <4E5DAD1E.9040203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110831124412.GO15312@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:40:14PM -0400, Ted wrote: > yup i did the dd first too. until i found the share ware, i was > going to scan the bytes for jpg headers and try to get bytes back to > jpg's. > since it likely did a quick-format, most of the bytes of the > pictures are on there, and most likely sequential. > I actually looked at the raw bytes in a program and saw the jpg > images, but saw breaks in the data, probably disk blocks, > but then i googled, found that program, and it did its thing. Email > me if you don't have luck find program, and i can see if i still > have it, > it was 2 years ago, so its not fresh in my mind. > When you do dd, look at the bytes with od (or similar), make sure > its not a 0's or some identical patterned data, i.e. 0x80, or > whatever, > that means it did a full format, then your SOL. The photorec tool in the testdisk package (at least on Debian) does an excellent job searching for jpeg headers in a broken disk image, including even merging fragmented files by finding disk blocks that fit together to form valid images. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 31 15:33:31 2011 From: aimass-EzYyMjUkBrFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Alejandro Imass) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:33:31 -0400 Subject: For any data recovery experts out there... In-Reply-To: <4E5DA4CA.2020802-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4E5DA4CA.2020802@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:04 PM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > I know someone who has/had a lot of picture files on an 8M Nexxtech usb > flash drive. > > Unfortunately, when it is place in a Windows computer, it claims the drive > is uninitiated and wants to format it. > > Is there any hope of recovering the pictures? > (I'm guessing not... :( ) > In Linux you will most probably be able to recover something. But WHATEVER YOU DO don't go to Data Retrieval Inc. in Toronto (dataretrieve.ca). In desperation we tend to fall into the hands of con artists on the Web and we overlook many details that when we are calm should stand out. Don't EVER do business with a data retrieval company that asks you for money up-front. These people ripped me off with a lot of technical mumbo-jumbo crap and they didn't recover the drive, in fact they damaged it even more. Fortunately, I had a second mirror drive which also crashed at the same time (which was kind of odd) and got recovered perfectly by real experts at Gilware Inc. in the US, and they were even cheaper than the con artists at Data Retrieval Inc. in Toronto. Gilware doesn't charge anything up front and the turn around was in days. Impeccable! -- Alejandro > Lance > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 31 15:39:38 2011 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:39:38 -0400 Subject: a car going to Ohio Linuxfest Message-ID: Hi everyone, I was thinking of driving to OH LF. If anyone wants a lift, we could probably arrange something. Planning to drive down early Friday and come home late Sunday... TTYL, -- G. Matthew Rice ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? gpg id: EF9AAD20 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 31 17:22:10 2011 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:22:10 -0400 Subject: a car going to Ohio Linuxfest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E5E6DC2.4050106@gmail.com> Hi Matt, If you can find space for me, I would like to go. I have my current Canadian passport and can cross the border no problem. Teddy On 08/31/2011 11:39 AM, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I was thinking of driving to OH LF. If anyone wants a lift, we could > probably arrange something. > > Planning to drive down early Friday and come home late Sunday... > > TTYL, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 31 17:39:20 2011 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:39:20 -0400 Subject: a car going to Ohio Linuxfest In-Reply-To: <4E5E6DC2.4050106-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4E5E6DC2.4050106@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 1:22 PM, teddy wrote: > If you can find space for me, I would like to go. > I have my current Canadian passport and can cross the border no problem. Contact me off-list, Teddy. ;) TTYS, --matt > Teddy > > > > On 08/31/2011 11:39 AM, G. Matthew Rice wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> I was thinking of driving to OH LF. ?If anyone wants a lift, we could >> probably arrange something. >> >> Planning to drive down early Friday and come home late Sunday... >> >> TTYL, > > -- G. Matthew Rice ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? gpg id: EF9AAD20 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 31 18:50:38 2011 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:50:38 -0400 Subject: Evolution wastes space In-Reply-To: <6425224590694264268@unknownmsgid> References: <6425224590694264268@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Evolution is only a theory. On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 08:50, Sammy Lao wrote: > Uninstall evolution. > > I always do for my personal machines. > > Sent from my mobile > > On 2011-08-28, at 2:59, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > >> I have a large mailbox on my CentOS 5 system. >> I never use Evolution. >> Except by accident: if I hit a mailto: link on my browser. >> >> The ~/.evolution directory is 120 megabytes! >> 90 megabytes is in a file called .evolution/mail/local/2004july08.sbd. >> >> I'm going to blow the whole thing away. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Renata Rocha http://renata.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists