today is the day

Christopher Browne cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
Wed Oct 27 16:45:59 UTC 2010


On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Robert Brockway
<robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hmm.. When I play Simcity[1] I always put in a good public transport system
>  but I've never played with a deliberate bias away from cars (despite my
> real-world views on this).  I'm going to try that :)

Which may be somewhat interesting, but with the caveat that it will
indicate whatever model the authors encoded into Simcity, as opposed
to forcibly being a reflection of reality.

I must say that the debate on transit that has taken place *AFTER* the
election has been lively and worthy of thought.  And it's the sort of
debate that should have taken BEFORE the election :-(.

I think I've seen *some* clueless comment, but there are conflicting
issues that have been mentioned where it's not obvious that there's
anything that is safe to be dismissed.

It seems to me that:

- Extending the subway system is a hideously expensive answer.  It's
quite possibly worthwhile, but it requires committing to a decade
worth of billions in spending per year to do it.

If Toronto can't afford to pay for it, it seems hardly just to expect
people in Kamloops or Timmins to pay for it.  That points at it
seeming reasonable that provincial and federal governments are
reluctant to throw money at this sort of thing.

In any case, Ford's "on crack" if he imagines he can "cut costs" and
do this at the same time.

- Above-ground trains are disruptive of all kinds of nearby traffic,
so, while they appear cheaper than going underground, they're not a
great answer.

And there are some clearly disputable issues surrounding this.  It's
well deserving of more debate.

- It's quite clear that we're observing two positions, which have
appeared not-infrequently in GTALUG debate surrounding locations of
things (and which means that this really does connect legitimately to
the "proper business of GTALUG")...

--> There are carless people that connect thru the core that perceive
the world as if roads and cars are a plague, and that any place that
isn't within easy walking distance of a subway station isn't a
"legitimate" part of Toronto.  (If I engage in a little hyperbole
here, I hope I can be forgiven.  I have *heard* statements this
adamant!)

--> To people that reside in more suburban parts of the GTA, it's an
annoyance to need to interface with the traffic constrictions,
expensive parking, and such that result from interfacing with parts of
Toronto that are too close to the "dense subway bits."

Ford might call cyclists "a plague," which goes too far.  But I think
there are decent arguments to be made that removing car lanes in
favour of bike lanes isn't likely to be too useful.

Those that consider Ford "a plague" should keep in mind that he's, in
effect, a natural consequence of the amalgamation of various cities
into Toronto.  Those voters in Scarborough, North York, and Etobicoke
have peskily different interests than those in Old Toronto.

It looks a lot like Toronto politics have been focused on O.T., and
the pendulum is swinging in the opposite direction.  There's plenty
bad about that - but it shouldn't be so much of a surprise.  And if
Etobicokians are getting their way, that's NOT an inherently broken
thing.
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