[OT] Public Transit

[D. Hugh Redelmeier]

| From: James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>

| The problem is no matter how much public transit there is, there will still be
| a need for roads.  For many, public transit is simply not an option.

Not really.  Sure roads are necessary but we already have them.

The question is: how much road capacity do we need.

Since using the roads is kind of free (if you already have a car and
ignore the cost of gas), the limitation that kicks in is capacity.

If we priced the use of roads and users were rational, we could reduce
traffic to the extent that it would not cause slowdowns.  I'm *not*
saying that that is the right choice, just that it is possible.

| Regardless, Toronto's public transit would be much better, if so many plans
| hadn't been killed over the years.

I think so.  But an unimplemented plan hasn't been tested: some could
have turned out to be bad.

Some of the weaknesses of getting to a good subway system:

- deserves careful design, rather than politically motivated approaches
  (It isn't at all clear to me that the route to York has been
  justified on the basis of traffic, current or projected.  I have
  suspicions of how it got done.)

- is awesomely expensive (a billion dollars for a mile or two?).  I
  think it creates value (eg. real estate value) but the government
  hasn't been able to figure out how to capture enough of this to
  finance the building.  So folks on a subway (like me!) are being
  subsidized by folks elsewhere (like Cornerbrook or Kamloops).

- it has a tremendous lead-time.  You cannot solve current problems by
  building a subway.  You don't actually know the needs by the time
  the system is delivered.  With luck, the promise of a subway can
  cause the appropriate adjustment of development in the area served
  (e.g. perhaps in Vaughan with the new extension).

- subways are not flexible.  Bus routes are much easier to add or
  change (assuming you can grab existing road capacity).

- our current system doesn't scale.  Some "express" system is needed
  if it is to service a larger area.

  Even in the current system this shows: downtown subway stops are
  very comfortably spaced for pedestrians but that's not true at the
  north end: the stops are one concession apart (except for the North
  York City Centre add-on).

  (The 1.25mi concession grid structure of much of Ontario dates back
  to Governor Simcoe!)

- the current system feels shabby and the seats are too narrow for many.  
  During rush hour, the trains are uncomfortably crowded.
  The result is that many middle-class people feel that the subway
  isn't for them.

- cars are mass produced.  Transit equipment seems to be custom made
  and hence a lot more expensive.  See, for example, what the auditor
  general said about the Canadian helicopter purchases: prices went up
  (roughly) a factor of two for what appear to be minor upgrades.

- during an individual trip, the cost in time and convenience of switching 
  between a bus and a subway is way too high.  As a contrast, I find 
  switching between the Spadina streetcar and the subway to have much less 
  overhead.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists