From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 10:29:10 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 06:29:10 -0400 Subject: encrypted code Message-ID: Is there an available package/standard for encrypting code ? What I am looking to do is to encrypt the file using ssl or some other mechanism and to have to get the key to decrypt it from the server, then execute it. Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From David.Collier-Brown-ghy6y1RO5ssFyWsGDH9TEg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 15:16:28 2010 From: David.Collier-Brown-ghy6y1RO5ssFyWsGDH9TEg at public.gmane.org (Collier-Brown, David (LNG-CAN)) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:16:28 -0400 Subject: Importing Outlook PST files? In-Reply-To: References: <20101031190339.GA11504@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: I think there is a process using Netscape-based mail clients on Windows, described in Chapter 6 of David Pogue's "Switching to the Mac" from O'Reilly, at http://my.safaribooksonline.com/9781449377335/transferring_email_amp_con tacts ________________________________ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tyler Aviss Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 3:39 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Importing Outlook PST files? Usually what I've done is add a secondary IMAP account and drag+drop folders from the old outlook one. Doesn't scale well, but ok if you're just doing a few users... On 2010-10-31 12:02 PM, "Walter Dnes" wrote: Are there any simple converters that will import Outlook PST files into qmail or mbox format? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 16:03:31 2010 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:03:31 +0000 Subject: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative Message-ID: I've been using F-Spot for a while now, mainly to import pictures from the camera. I like the way it stores them into date directories. Now I am organizing my photos using the tags facility it provides. But the capabilities are a bit limiting. A key component missing is the ability to display photos in albums sorted any way I want. I can make up albums simply by making use of the tags in certain ways, but it has very little flexibility in the way the photos are displayed other than the default (chronological by date stamp) or in reverse. There are suppose to be options to sort by file size, which my F-Spot doesn't have, but that isn't the same as displaying in any desired order. The F-Spot manual doesn't have a way to do this and I couldn't find a solution through Google, which means there probably isn't one. I'm left with looking for alternatives. Is anyone using a program that does the above well? Picasa Web gallery caught my eye, not sure it's the right tool though. I would still use F-Spot, but albums maybe could be uploaded to Picasa web. Before I get a google account to try it out, it would be great to get some opinions. Thanks, John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 16:06:09 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:06:09 -0400 Subject: encrypted code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101101160609.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 06:29:10AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > Is there an available package/standard for encrypting code ? What I am > looking to do is to encrypt the file using ssl or some other mechanism > and to have to get the key to decrypt it from the server, then execute > it. I think the simple answer is: No. What exactly is the purpose of doing it? What are you trying to accomplish? You would probably need to have a wrapper binary that does the communications and then decrypts some other binary (which probably means writing it decrypted somewhere in other to execute it), or decrypts to ram and executes the decrypted code (which modern systems don't permit since allowing execution of data is a major source of security holes). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 16:07:42 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:07:42 -0400 Subject: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101101160742.GW12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 04:03:31PM +0000, john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > I've been using F-Spot for a while now, mainly to import pictures from the camera. I like the way it stores them into date directories. > > Now I am organizing my photos using the tags facility it provides. But the capabilities are a bit limiting. A key component missing is the ability to display photos in albums sorted any way I want. I can make up albums simply by making use of the tags in certain ways, but it has very little flexibility in the way the photos are displayed other than the default (chronological by date stamp) or in reverse. There are suppose to be options to sort by file size, which my F-Spot doesn't have, but that isn't the same as displaying in any desired order. > > The F-Spot manual doesn't have a way to do this and I couldn't find a solution through Google, which means there probably isn't one. I'm left with looking for alternatives. Is anyone using a program that does the above well? Picasa Web gallery caught my eye, not sure it's the right tool though. I would still use F-Spot, but albums maybe could be uploaded to Picasa web. Before I get a google account to try it out, it would be great to get some opinions. How about picassa? No idea if it does exsactly what you want but they do have a linux version of it and it does seem to be very handy at tagging and organizing pictures. I have never looked at their web gallery though, only the application. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 16:09:02 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:09:02 -0400 Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 01:14:40AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > A: Because DEC 25 = OCT 31 > > Ok how many of you confirmed the result? :) I think your joke is a couple od decades out of date. Who uses octal anymore? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 16:12:19 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:12:19 -0400 Subject: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:03 PM, wrote: > I've been using F-Spot for a while now, mainly to import pictures from the > camera. I like the way it stores them into date directories. You should probably also consider: - Picasa has a desktop client that does run on Linux - KDE has "digikam" - kphotoalbum - Shotwell The last time I looked at this, I was happy enough with Shotwell, which has replaced F-Spot in some distributions. I'll note that there's a whole bunch more options: -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 11:56:17 2010 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 07:56:17 -0400 Subject: encrypted code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: any programming language in particular? On 2010-11-01, at 6:29, Dave Cramer wrote: > Is there an available package/standard for encrypting code ? What I am > looking to do is to encrypt the file using ssl or some other mechanism > and to have to get the key to decrypt it from the server, then execute > it. > > > Dave Cramer > VP Software Development > Visible Assets Inc. > www.visibleassets.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 16:29:50 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:29:50 -0400 Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: <20101101160902.GX12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 01:14:40AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: >> A: Because DEC 25 = OCT 31 >> >> Ok how many of you confirmed the result? :) > > I think your joke is a couple od decades out of date. ?Who uses octal > anymore? Might be a question, when is the last time you had to deal with octal numbers on a regular basis? For myself the answer was mid-1990s, the Toronto Free-Net had a Cisco ASM terminal server as part of the dial-up modem pool which insisted on numbering off all the modems in octal. This sort of worked out okay, as each rack of modems contained 16 modems, which we could treat as 1-20 (octal)... Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 17:07:00 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:07:00 -0400 Subject: encrypted code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Language can be C, java is also a possibility. Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > > any programming language in particular? > > On 2010-11-01, at 6:29, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> Is there an available package/standard for encrypting code ? What I am >> looking to do is to encrypt the file using ssl or some other mechanism >> and to have to get the key to decrypt it from the server, then execute >> it. >> >> >> Dave Cramer >> VP Software Development >> Visible Assets Inc. >> www.visibleassets.com >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 17:34:08 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:34:08 -0400 Subject: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use digKam for my photo's. Its pretty good. Not sure if it does what you want though. On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:03 PM, wrote: > > I've been using F-Spot for a while now, mainly to import pictures from > the > > camera. I like the way it stores them into date directories. > > You should probably also consider: > - Picasa has a desktop client that does run on Linux > - KDE has "digikam" > - kphotoalbum > - Shotwell > > The last time I looked at this, I was happy enough with Shotwell, > which has replaced F-Spot in some distributions. > > I'll note that there's a whole bunch more options: > > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 17:58:32 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:58:32 -0400 Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: References: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101101175832.GY12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:29:50PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Might be a question, when is the last time you had to deal with octal > numbers on a regular basis? For myself the answer was mid-1990s, the > Toronto Free-Net had a Cisco ASM terminal server as part of the > dial-up modem pool which insisted on numbering off all the modems in > octal. This sort of worked out okay, as each rack of modems contained > 16 modems, which we could treat as 1-20 (octal)... And with hex it would have been one digit (if you started with 0). :) The only place I ever use octal seems to be umask settings. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 18:02:48 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 14:02:48 -0400 Subject: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CCF00C8.50805@dinamis.com> On 11/01/2010 12:03 PM, john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'm left with looking for alternatives. Is anyone using a program that does the > above well? Digikam can sort any number of ways, do fuzzy searches, find duplicates, etc. I quite like it. We've used it in unusual ways for web development, too. One of our clients needed to get thousands of product photos categorized and into a product catalogue that we were building for him. We had FreeNX running on a server and gave him access to a machine with Digikam so that he could tag the photos in various ways. Once he was finished, it was a matter of accessing the sqlite db in which Digikam stored the data and creating the data in the format we needed for the on-line catalogue. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 21:13:23 2010 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 21:13:23 +0000 Subject: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative In-Reply-To: <4CCF00C8.50805-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: ,<4CCF00C8.50805@dinamis.com> Message-ID: > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 14:02:48 -0400 > From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative > > On 11/01/2010 12:03 PM, john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I'm left with looking for alternatives. Is anyone using a program that does the > > above well? > > Digikam can sort any number of ways, do fuzzy searches, find duplicates, > etc. I quite like it. We've used it in unusual ways for web development, > too. One of our clients needed to get thousands of product photos > categorized and into a product catalogue that we were building for him. > We had FreeNX running on a server and gave him access to a machine with > Digikam so that he could tag the photos in various ways. Once he was > finished, it was a matter of accessing the sqlite db in which Digikam > stored the data and creating the data in the format we needed for the > on-line catalogue. > -- > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay Looking at all of the mentioned programs, it looks like Picasa will do what I need. It would have been nice if the Linux client had kept up with the latest versions released, but it's quite behind the windows version (3.0 vs 3.8). I went through the digikam manual and couldn't quite tell whether it does what I'm looking for. From what you say, it probably does. It's quite the program by the looks of it. Shotwell seems to be at par with F-Spot. Too bad, but it doesn't do what I'm looking for. kphotoalbum also seems to fall short. Now I just have to decide between Picasa and digikam. Thanks to all who replied. As an added benefit, while I was looking through google for manuals for the suggested apps, I bumped into a couple of programs to make videos out of photos, which I really want (PhotoFilmStrip and Imagination). So I spent most of the afternoon downloading and experimenting with these. What fun... Except a lot of stuff I should have been doing got pushed to tomorrow. If anyone is using the above two, let me know what you think. John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 22:43:17 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:43:17 -0400 Subject: encrypted code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101101224316.GA4128@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 06:29:10AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > Is there an available package/standard for encrypting code ? What I am > looking to do is to encrypt the file using ssl or some other mechanism > and to have to get the key to decrypt it from the server, then execute > it. >From top of my head, do what nVidia binary driver or Java install script do. 1. Append encrypted program at the end of shell script or embed in C program. 2. At run time, write it to a file, get key from remote server, decrypt it, and run it. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 22:47:09 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:47:09 -0400 Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: <20101101160902.GX12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101101224709.GB4128@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:09:02PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 01:14:40AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > A: Because DEC 25 = OCT 31 > > > > Ok how many of you confirmed the result? :) > > I think your joke is a couple od decades out of date. Who uses octal > anymore? Actually, a lot, especially if you're surrounded by people who can't program, yet somehow get paid more money than you. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From web-d7rjRpVnz4HL3mmD008VJw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 1 22:49:35 2010 From: web-d7rjRpVnz4HL3mmD008VJw at public.gmane.org (Eliot Frost) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 18:49:35 -0400 Subject: Public Transit (was: today is the day) In-Reply-To: References: <4CC5D4F6.9090402@gmail.com> <20101025193130.GT12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101026032716.GA4388@node1.opengeometry.net> <4CC66C98.80909@rogers.com> <20101027045739.GA4222@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: That's nothing. I hear Richard Branson commutes to work on the space shuttle. FROM HIS MOON BASE. (moon was an inside job) Eliot On 29 October 2010 10:15, Fabio FZero wrote: > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 08:51, Renata Rocha wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 00:57, William Park > wrote: > > > >> 100km is 1 hour drive, which is nothing. You can drive to London and > >> back with the time you typically spend in grid-locked GTA commute. > >> Solution to traffic jam is reduction in population density, not more > >> public transit. > > > > THAT'S NOTHING > > > > 500km is a 1 hour flight. That means you can fly from YYZ to Montr?al > > in one hour. Think ahead, government should spend money in RENTAL JETS > > for those who commute daily between the two cities! > > Ok, now imagine that... with CONCORDES! > > PROBLEM. FSCKING. SOLVED. > > - FZ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 2 02:20:45 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2010 22:20:45 -0400 Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: <20101101175832.GY12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101101175832.GY12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CCF757D.7070607@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The only place I ever use octal seems to be umask settings. > > Years ago, I used octal a lot on my IMSAI 8080. The instruction set worked out better in octal than hex. I also used it a lot when I was working on Data General computers, but hex on DEC gear. Back in those days, I could do hex and octal arithmetic in my head and sometimes mentally shifted from decimal to octal or hex to make a calculation easier. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 2 02:59:14 2010 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 22:59:14 -0400 Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: <20101101160902.GX12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101101225914.2efa2de7.hgibson@eol.ca> On Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:09:02 -0400 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 01:14:40AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > A: Because DEC 25 = OCT 31 > > > > Ok how many of you confirmed the result? :) > > I think your joke is a couple od decades out of date. Who uses octal > anymore? Lennart, The funny thing is that I have the book The Human Science of Phrenology, by O.S.Fowler. I cannot make out the publication date, but it appears to be sometime in the 1880s. The book is completely comprehensive, going as far as to advocate that the Octal system of arithmetic far surpasses the decimal system. I am not sure that this has to do with the science of phrenology. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 2 14:03:03 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 10:03:03 -0400 Subject: encrypted code In-Reply-To: <20101101224316.GA4128-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101101224316.GA4128@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20101102140303.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 06:43:17PM -0400, William Park wrote: > From top of my head, do what nVidia binary driver or Java install script > do. > 1. Append encrypted program at the end of shell script or embed in C > program. > 2. At run time, write it to a file, get key from remote server, > decrypt it, and run it. Which leaves a decrypted file on the disk, which pretty much defeats the purpose of encrypting it I suspect. It really depends WHY the encryption is considered necesary. Certainly neither java nor nvidia do encryption, they just have a shell script with a shell archive appended or something similar. Getting the encrypted binary and a wrapper delivered is the trivial bit. Actually doing the decryption and running without leaving secret bits lying around is the hard bit. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 2 14:13:57 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 10:13:57 -0400 Subject: encrypted code In-Reply-To: <20101102140303.GZ12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101101224316.GA4128@node1.opengeometry.net> <20101102140303.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 06:43:17PM -0400, William Park wrote: >> From top of my head, do what nVidia binary driver or Java install script >> do. >> ? ? 1. Append encrypted program at the end of shell script or embed in C >> ? ? program. >> ? ? 2. At run time, write it to a file, get key from remote server, >> ? ? decrypt it, and run it. > > Which leaves a decrypted file on the disk, which pretty much defeats the > purpose of encrypting it I suspect. ?It really depends WHY the encryption > is considered necesary. > > Certainly neither java nor nvidia do encryption, they just have a shell > script with a shell archive appended or something similar. > > Getting the encrypted binary and a wrapper delivered is the trivial bit. > Actually doing the decryption and running without leaving secret bits > lying around is the hard bit. > > -- I think it's possible to delete the file and still have the program that deleted it still access it. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 2 14:14:57 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 10:14:57 -0400 Subject: encrypted code In-Reply-To: <20101102140303.GZ12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101101224316.GA4128@node1.opengeometry.net> <20101102140303.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 06:43:17PM -0400, William Park wrote: >> From top of my head, do what nVidia binary driver or Java install script >> do. >> ? ? 1. Append encrypted program at the end of shell script or embed in C >> ? ? program. >> ? ? 2. At run time, write it to a file, get key from remote server, >> ? ? decrypt it, and run it. > > Which leaves a decrypted file on the disk, which pretty much defeats the > purpose of encrypting it I suspect. ?It really depends WHY the encryption > is considered necesary. > > Certainly neither java nor nvidia do encryption, they just have a shell > script with a shell archive appended or something similar. > > Getting the encrypted binary and a wrapper delivered is the trivial bit. > Actually doing the decryption and running without leaving secret bits > lying around is the hard bit. The only way I know of to do this sort of thing that isn't just pretending to have security is to embed the encryption into tamper-resistant hardware. That Wikipedia article at least alludes to the point that it's trouble some to "run without leaving secret bits lying around," as you say. There are fitful doses of discussion on the Postgres hackers list about the notion of encrypting stored functions, which is logically equivalent to what Dave Cramer is looking for (though likely not a direct substitute), and the reaction is always to the effect of "if we automate it, then you're only getting something feigning to be security." If you *really do* have this sort of security, then it is at odds with the simultaneous expectation that "it needs to be Highly Available." You can't have both at once - the things needed to make the system Truly Secure are a latent Denial of Service attack. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 2 14:22:40 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 10:22:40 -0400 Subject: encrypted code In-Reply-To: References: <20101101224316.GA4128@node1.opengeometry.net> <20101102140303.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101102142240.GA12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 02, 2010 at 10:13:57AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > I think it's possible to delete the file and still have the program > that deleted it still access it. Yes, and it is also possible to access that file through /proc// as well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 2 14:22:46 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 10:22:46 -0400 Subject: encrypted code In-Reply-To: References: <20101101224316.GA4128@node1.opengeometry.net> <20101102140303.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:13 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I think it's possible to delete the file and still have the program > that deleted it still access it. Sure, I've done DOS attacks on servers (by accident!) in much this way; I had a fax service which was writing into a log file, and did "rm /fax/server/log/file.log", which made the file seem to disappear, but the file continued to grow (to the point of filling all disk space :-( ) until I shut down the fax service. That happened to be on Digital OSF/1, but should occur perfectly nicely on Linux. But as security goes, this is a mirage. Root can go into /proc, and find the file descriptors, and access the data. So the file really is still there, and a suitably privileged user can get at it. One might naively think that "if it's just in memory, then who can get at it?" Unfortunately, /proc has an interface for that, too. Really, the only answer to *truly* secure the code is to make sure it is only decrypted on a server that the adversary cannot tamper with. There are cryptographic coprocessors built for this kind of purpose. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 2 20:10:43 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 16:10:43 -0400 Subject: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0ce1ebbebc2bfd8d014a39fd56c5aa79.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Another alternative if you have a LAMP server available is to use Gallery... http://gallery.menalto.com ...I use it for all my photos and my Mother/Brother love it because its easy to use. Version 3 was released a few weeks ago. > > I've been using F-Spot for a while now, mainly to import pictures from the > camera. I like the way it stores them into date directories. > > Now I am organizing my photos using the tags facility it provides. But the > capabilities are a bit limiting. A key component missing is the ability to > display photos in albums sorted any way I want. I can make up albums > simply by making use of the tags in certain ways, but it has very little > flexibility in the way the photos are displayed other than the default > (chronological by date stamp) or in reverse. There are suppose to be > options to sort by file size, which my F-Spot doesn't have, but that isn't > the same as displaying in any desired order. > > The F-Spot manual doesn't have a way to do this and I couldn't find a > solution through Google, which means there probably isn't one. I'm left > with looking for alternatives. Is anyone using a program that does the > above well? Picasa Web gallery caught my eye, not sure it's the right tool > though. I would still use F-Spot, but albums maybe could be uploaded to > Picasa web. Before I get a google account to try it out, it would be great > to get some opinions. > > Thanks, > > John. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 00:36:20 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 20:36:20 -0400 Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: <20101101160902.GX12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101103003620.GA15404@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:09:02PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > I think your joke is a couple od decades out of date. Who uses > octal anymore? I have one or 2 personal bash scripts that I have to go out of my way to *PREVENT* octal. They parse/manipulate/calculate numbers that get pulled in from a fixed format text file. And leading zeros royally screw things up, because they switch the numbers from base 10 to base 8. Here's a function I use a lot... # bash treats leading zeros as indicating octal, freaks out on # on 08 or 09, and numbers 010 and above are just plain wrong. # So strip leading zeros. strip_leading_0() { stripped="$1" # # Leave plain "0" alone. Only strip zeros if string is longer # than one character. while [[ ${#stripped} -gt 1 ]] && [[ "${stripped:0:1}" == "0" ]] do stripped=${stripped:1} done export stripped } It gets called like so... xday=${dataline:6:2} strip_leading_0 "${xday}" xday=${stripped} -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 02:19:15 2010 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 02:19:15 +0000 Subject: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative In-Reply-To: <0ce1ebbebc2bfd8d014a39fd56c5aa79.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: ,<0ce1ebbebc2bfd8d014a39fd56c5aa79.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 16:10:43 -0400 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative > From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Another alternative if you have a LAMP server available is to use Gallery... > > http://gallery.menalto.com > > ...I use it for all my photos and my Mother/Brother love it because its > easy to use. Version 3 was released a few weeks ago. > It would be kind of cool to set up a photo gallery in my own server. Looking at the info on the web site, it doesn't look like it does what I want, which is to manually sequence the photos in an album any way I feel like, not by date or file size or any predetermined sorting. And certainly not by having to change file names to force a specific sequence. Have you been able to do this? I couldn't see it. Thanks, John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 02:29:24 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 22:29:24 -0400 Subject: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative In-Reply-To: References: ,<0ce1ebbebc2bfd8d014a39fd56c5aa79.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <3fa2d3aaed3ee2348ed8ec1357bf4742.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> > > > >> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 16:10:43 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative >> From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> >> Another alternative if you have a LAMP server available is to use >> Gallery... >> >> http://gallery.menalto.com >> >> ...I use it for all my photos and my Mother/Brother love it because its >> easy to use. Version 3 was released a few weeks ago. >> > It would be kind of cool to set up a photo gallery in my own server. > Looking at the info on the web site, it doesn't look like it does what I > want, which is to manually sequence the photos in an album any way I feel > like, not by date or file size or any predetermined sorting. And certainly > not by having to change file names to force a specific sequence. > > Have you been able to do this? I couldn't see it. > > Thanks, > > John. > > You can setup the photos any way you want. All you do is create an album (and sub-albums) and upload whatever pictures you want to whatever album you want. Once you have installed Gallery, created albums and uploaded pictures there is an album option to "Organize album" which lets you organize your photos anyway you like. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 02:42:42 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 22:42:42 -0400 Subject: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative In-Reply-To: References: ,<0ce1ebbebc2bfd8d014a39fd56c5aa79.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: > > > >> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 16:10:43 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative >> From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> >> Another alternative if you have a LAMP server available is to use >> Gallery... >> >> http://gallery.menalto.com >> >> ...I use it for all my photos and my Mother/Brother love it because its >> easy to use. Version 3 was released a few weeks ago. >> > It would be kind of cool to set up a photo gallery in my own server. > Looking at the info on the web site, it doesn't look like it does what I > want, which is to manually sequence the photos in an album any way I feel > like, not by date or file size or any predetermined sorting. And certainly > not by having to change file names to force a specific sequence. > > Have you been able to do this? I couldn't see it. > > Thanks, > > John. > > A quick look at the Gallery website and it seems they haven't updated the features/requirements/etc on the front page to reflect Gallery 3 but you can display your pictures anyway you want with it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 02:50:07 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 22:50:07 -0400 Subject: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative In-Reply-To: References: ,<0ce1ebbebc2bfd8d014a39fd56c5aa79.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <7c80c9cdfbeee49586aee648a2239868.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> > > > >> Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 16:10:43 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative >> From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> >> Another alternative if you have a LAMP server available is to use >> Gallery... >> >> http://gallery.menalto.com >> >> ...I use it for all my photos and my Mother/Brother love it because its >> easy to use. Version 3 was released a few weeks ago. >> > It would be kind of cool to set up a photo gallery in my own server. > Looking at the info on the web site, it doesn't look like it does what I > want, which is to manually sequence the photos in an album any way I feel > like, not by date or file size or any predetermined sorting. And certainly > not by having to change file names to force a specific sequence. > > Have you been able to do this? I couldn't see it. > > Thanks, > > John. > > Here are the system requirements for Gallery 3... http://codex.gallery2.org/Gallery3:Requirements -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 03:36:35 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 23:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: <20101103003620.GA15404-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101103003620.GA15404@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Nov 2010, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:09:02PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > >> I think your joke is a couple od decades out of date. Who uses >> octal anymore? > > I have one or 2 personal bash scripts that I have to go out of my way > to *PREVENT* octal. They parse/manipulate/calculate numbers that get > pulled in from a fixed format text file. And leading zeros royally > screw things up, because they switch the numbers from base 10 to base 8. > Here's a function I use a lot... > > # bash treats leading zeros as indicating octal, freaks out on > # on 08 or 09, and numbers 010 and above are just plain wrong. > # So strip leading zeros. > strip_leading_0() { > stripped="$1" > # > # Leave plain "0" alone. Only strip zeros if string is longer > # than one character. > while [[ ${#stripped} -gt 1 ]] && [[ "${stripped:0:1}" == "0" ]] > do > stripped=${stripped:1} > done > export stripped > } > > It gets called like so... > > xday=${dataline:6:2} > strip_leading_0 "${xday}" > xday=${stripped} $ a=08 $ b=09 $ echo $(( 10#$a + 10#$b )) 17 Or, if there can only be a single leading zero (as often happens when manipulating dates): echo $(( ${a#0} + ${b#0} )) -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 14:55:41 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 10:55:41 -0400 Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: <20101103003620.GA15404-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101103003620.GA15404@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20101103145541.GB12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 02, 2010 at 08:36:20PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I have one or 2 personal bash scripts that I have to go out of my way > to *PREVENT* octal. They parse/manipulate/calculate numbers that get > pulled in from a fixed format text file. And leading zeros royally > screw things up, because they switch the numbers from base 10 to base 8. > Here's a function I use a lot... > > # bash treats leading zeros as indicating octal, freaks out on > # on 08 or 09, and numbers 010 and above are just plain wrong. > # So strip leading zeros. > strip_leading_0() { > stripped="$1" > # > # Leave plain "0" alone. Only strip zeros if string is longer > # than one character. > while [[ ${#stripped} -gt 1 ]] && [[ "${stripped:0:1}" == "0" ]] > do > stripped=${stripped:1} > done > export stripped > } > > It gets called like so... > > xday=${dataline:6:2} > strip_leading_0 "${xday}" > xday=${stripped} Would it be simpler to just prepend 10# to the number? For example: y="0001234" let "x = 10#$y" echo $x -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 15:19:41 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 11:19:41 -0400 Subject: Photo Management - F-Spot or Alternative In-Reply-To: References: ,<0ce1ebbebc2bfd8d014a39fd56c5aa79.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <4CD17D8D.5070506@ve3syb.ca> john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: >> From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org >> >> Another alternative if you have a LAMP server available is to use >> Gallery... >> >> http://gallery.menalto.com [snip] > Looking at the info on the web site, it doesn't look like it does what I > want, which is to manually sequence the photos in an album any way I > feel like, not by date or file size or any predetermined sorting. You can sort the pictures any way you want. Take a look at http://gallery.menalto.com/node/71914 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 17:22:49 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:22:49 -0400 Subject: key mapping Message-ID: How do I remap keys under X (on my keyboard), there is a way to view the keycode, i forget what that app is called, and where best to remap the keys so my change takes when i log in? i tried google and can't find a how to, Thanks! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 17:25:45 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:25:45 -0400 Subject: key mapping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > How do I remap keys under X (on my keyboard), there is a way to view > the keycode, i forget what that app is called, and where best to remap > the keys so my change takes when i log in? > > i tried google and can't find a how to, xmodmap is the program, how to automatically run it is likely a matter for your shell or your .xsession file. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 17:27:07 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:27:07 -0400 Subject: key mapping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101103172707.GC12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 01:22:49PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > How do I remap keys under X (on my keyboard), there is a way to view > the keycode, i forget what that app is called, and where best to remap > the keys so my change takes when i log in? > > i tried google and can't find a how to, man xmodmap Applications work based on KEYSYMNAMEs and the keyboard generates keycodes. xmodmap sets up the mapping from keycodes to keysyms. xev is handy to determine the keycode of a given key and what it currently generates as a keysym. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 17:39:09 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:39:09 -0400 Subject: key mapping In-Reply-To: <20101103172707.GC12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101103172707.GC12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 01:22:49PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> How do I remap keys under X (on my keyboard), there is a way to view >> the keycode, i forget what that app is called, and where best to remap >> the keys so my change takes when i log in? >> >> i tried google and can't find a how to, > > man xmodmap > > Applications work based on KEYSYMNAMEs and the keyboard generates > keycodes. ?xmodmap sets up the mapping from keycodes to keysyms. > > xev is handy to determine the keycode of a given key and what it currently > generates as a keysym. > > -- > Len Sorensen i kept coming across xmodmap, but no one was saying anything about xev =) that's helps thanks! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 18:17:41 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 11:17:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: <20101103145541.GB12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101103003620.GA15404@waltdnes.org> <20101103145541.GB12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <852154.26759.qm@web113416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ---- > From: Lennart Sorensen > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 10:55:41 AM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween >mixed up? > > On Tue, Nov 02, 2010 at 08:36:20PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > I have one or 2 personal bash scripts that I have to go out of my way > > to *PREVENT* octal. They parse/manipulate/calculate numbers that get > > pulled in from a fixed format text file. And leading zeros royally > > screw things up, because they switch the numbers from base 10 to base 8. > > Here's a function I use a lot... > > > > # bash treats leading zeros as indicating octal, freaks out on > > # on 08 or 09, and numbers 010 and above are just plain wrong. > > # So strip leading zeros. > > strip_leading_0() { > > stripped="$1" > > # > > # Leave plain "0" alone. Only strip zeros if string is longer > > # than one character. > > while [[ ${#stripped} -gt 1 ]] && [[ "${stripped:0:1}" == "0" ]] > > do > > stripped=${stripped:1} > > done > > export stripped > > } > > > > It gets called like so... > > > > xday=${dataline:6:2} > > strip_leading_0 "${xday}" > > xday=${stripped} > > Would it be simpler to just prepend 10# to the number? > > For example: > > y="0001234" > let "x = 10#$y" > echo $x Or, if you have recent Bash or Ksh, shopt -s extglob echo ${x##+(0)} -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 19:13:33 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 15:13:33 -0400 Subject: key mapping In-Reply-To: References: <20101103172707.GC12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 01:22:49PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>> How do I remap keys under X (on my keyboard), there is a way to view >>> the keycode, i forget what that app is called, and where best to remap >>> the keys so my change takes when i log in? >>> >>> i tried google and can't find a how to, >> >> man xmodmap >> >> Applications work based on KEYSYMNAMEs and the keyboard generates >> keycodes. ?xmodmap sets up the mapping from keycodes to keysyms. >> >> xev is handy to determine the keycode of a given key and what it currently >> generates as a keysym. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen > > i kept coming across xmodmap, but no one was saying anything about xev > =) that's helps thanks! > ok i sort of figured it out, if I type the following in xtem, the mapping works xmodmap -e "keycode 108 = Alt_R" where do i put this so it will work after login? i tried using ~/.xmodmap and ~/.xmodmaprc with the following entry !keycode 108 = Alt_R however after a reboot, it does nothing. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 20:10:51 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 16:10:51 -0400 Subject: key mapping In-Reply-To: References: <20101103172707.GC12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101103201051.GA23273@yam.witteman.ca> On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 03:13:33PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >ok i sort of figured it out, if I type the following in xtem, the mapping works > >xmodmap -e "keycode 108 = Alt_R" > >where do i put this so it will work after login? i tried using >~/.xmodmap and ~/.xmodmaprc with the following entry > >!keycode 108 = Alt_R > >however after a reboot, it does nothing. I found that as well, but rather than figuring it out, I just put the xmodmap calls in my .xinitrc - it seems to work. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 20:14:17 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 16:14:17 -0400 Subject: key mapping In-Reply-To: <20101103201051.GA23273-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101103172707.GC12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101103201051.GA23273@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 4:10 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 03:13:33PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > >>ok i sort of figured it out, if I type the following in xtem, the mapping works >> >>xmodmap -e "keycode 108 = Alt_R" >> >>where do i put this so it will work after login? ?i tried using >>~/.xmodmap and ~/.xmodmaprc with the following entry >> >>!keycode ?108 = Alt_R >> >>however after a reboot, it does nothing. > > I found that as well, but rather than figuring it out, I just put the > xmodmap calls in my .xinitrc - it seems to work. > -- > > yours, > > William > I got it working like it should, I had to remove the '!' bang in front of keycode. Here is a nice howto http://cweiske.de/howto/xmodmap/allinone.html -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 21:17:39 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 17:17:39 -0400 Subject: key mapping In-Reply-To: References: <20101103172707.GC12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101103211739.GD12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 03:13:33PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > ok i sort of figured it out, if I type the following in xtem, the mapping works > > xmodmap -e "keycode 108 = Alt_R" > > where do i put this so it will work after login? i tried using > ~/.xmodmap and ~/.xmodmaprc with the following entry > > !keycode 108 = Alt_R > > however after a reboot, it does nothing. Well it depends if your desktop manager/window manager/desktop environment loads it. Otherwise you may have to create a .xsession file to run the xmodmap command with the script. I think gnome and kde might have their own interfaces for doing the same kind of xmodmap config work, which you could use instead. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 3 21:29:14 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 17:29:14 -0400 Subject: OT today is the day In-Reply-To: References: <4CC5D4F6.9090402@gmail.com> <20101025193130.GT12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101026032716.GA4388@node1.opengeometry.net> <4CC787BF.4040206@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: This is a good read related to this old thread http://www.economist.com/node/17363399/print That is from a magazine that lean to the right William On 27 October 2010 09:07, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 10:00 PM, marthter wrote: >> On 10-10-25 11:27 PM, William Park wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 03:31:30PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 03:05:26PM -0400, Mike Kallies wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I vehemently oppose Rob Ford because of his preposterous transit plan. >>>>> Everything else on this campaign is fluff. >>>> >>>> Well anyone that thinks street cards should be replaced by busses >>>> because leaving room for cars is a good thing is nuts. ?Your best bet >>>> is to elliminate most cars from downtown. ?Other major cities around >>>> the world have done it and boy does it make things better. >>>> >>>> If transit worked well, people would not want to drive into downtown. >>>> So the solution is to fix transit, not make it better for cars (because >>>> you can never make enough room for cars in downtown toronto to avoid >>>> traffic problems, and the streetcars are not the problem). ?If you want >>>> cars to have an easier time, elliminate pedestrians. ?They get in the >>>> way of cars all the time. ?:) >>> >>> I live in Mississauga, and commute 100km per day. ?So, I may be biased, >>> but I'm utterly opposed to Public Transit. ?If city wants to assist >>> people with transportation, then city can run "public car rental". >> >> This more than just biased, this is the kind of selfish attitude that, in my >> experience, is typical of most conservative politics and its supporters... >> >> "_I_ don't go to the library so cut library budget." >> >> "_I_ don't have school age kids so cut education funding." >> >> "_I_ don't go to the public swimming pools so there does not need to be a >> parks and rec budget." >> >> "_I_ don't go to the museum, art gallery, theatre so there is no need for >> cultural and arts funding." >> >> Having these things contributes to the well-being of the society as a whole, >> whether you in particular use them or not. ?And, I'm sorry but if people who >> are "utterly opposed to public transit" got their way, many of the people >> pumping your gas and serving your drive-through coffee couldn't get to their >> work so that YOU can commute to your work. >> >> I'd much rather live in a civilization than just in an economy. > > I like that. Well said. > > -- > TBM > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 02:54:57 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 22:54:57 -0400 Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: References: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101103003620.GA15404@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20101104025457.GA17636@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Nov 02, 2010 at 11:36:35PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote > Or, if there can only be a single leading zero (as often happens > when manipulating dates): > > echo $(( ${a#0} + ${b#0} )) I need something generic that can handle multiple leading zeros. This works with all sorts of zero-padded data. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 06:20:02 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 02:20:02 -0400 Subject: key mapping In-Reply-To: <20101103211739.GD12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101103172707.GC12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101103211739.GD12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CD25092.5070203@gmail.com> On 10-11-03 05:17 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 03:13:33PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> ok i sort of figured it out, if I type the following in xtem, the mapping works >> >> xmodmap -e "keycode 108 = Alt_R" >> >> where do i put this so it will work after login? i tried using >> ~/.xmodmap and ~/.xmodmaprc with the following entry >> >> !keycode 108 = Alt_R >> >> however after a reboot, it does nothing. > > Well it depends if your desktop manager/window manager/desktop environment > loads it. Otherwise you may have to create a .xsession file to run the > xmodmap command with the script. > > I think gnome and kde might have their own interfaces for doing the same > kind of xmodmap config work, which you could use instead. > That's exactly what I had to do, in my previous reply I posted a link on a howto I found. It works both on Xubuntu and Kubuntu, I don't know why the Ubuntu installer seems to map the right ALT key to something stupid? I bought a bluetooth keyboard, it has a FN key that I want to map to something else, and move the FN key to the otherside. However when I run xev and press the key nothing is being detected. The keyboard I am using with my laptop running Xubuntu in VMware over Win7. Is there any other raw way to read key press and do key mapping? -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 10:55:12 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 06:55:12 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? Message-ID: Hi eveyone, I'm trying to do something that seems really simple to me but i still don't know how to do. I want to draw a timeline that represents the stages of a research project (inception, research, presentation, writing, submission, publication...) and I would like it to look something like this: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- \ \ \ \ inception research only I want it to be pretty, say with little circular nodes connecting the digonal lines to the main horizontl lines, and with the text aligned diagonally along the lines. Shouldn't this be easy to do, either in Openoffice (ick) or with another tool? in fact shouldn't i be able to generate this automatically from a set of terms, say, in a spreadsheet? and yet I haven't been able to do it. I will resort to gimp if i have to but for me that means hours of fiddling with the arcane interface... Thanks as always for your help! Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 11:17:10 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 07:17:10 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 November 2010 06:55, Matt Price wrote: > ? in fact shouldn't i be able to generate this automatically from a set of terms, say, in a spreadsheet? You should be able to do this with a script or you language of choice using either ImageMagick or the GD library -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gron.arthur-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 12:36:29 2010 From: gron.arthur-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Gron Arthur) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 08:36:29 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Apparently GIMP does export pictures to ascii, why not Inkscape for a nice vector graphic? On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 7:17 AM, Scott Allen wrote: > On 4 November 2010 06:55, Matt Price wrote: >> ? in fact shouldn't i be able to generate this automatically from a set of terms, say, in a spreadsheet? > > You should be able to do this with a script or you language of choice > using either > ImageMagick > or > the GD library > > -- > Scott > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 12:40:04 2010 From: lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Julian C. Dunn) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 08:40:04 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CD2A9A4.3030302@aquezada.com> On 11/04/2010 06:55 AM, Matt Price wrote: > I'm trying to do something that seems really simple to me but i still > don't know how to do. I want to draw a timeline that represents the > stages of a research project (inception, research, presentation, > writing, submission, publication...) and I would like it to look > something like this: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > \ \ > \ \ > inception research > > only I want it to be pretty, say with little circular nodes connecting > the digonal lines to the main horizontl lines, and with the text aligned > diagonally along the lines. Shouldn't this be easy to do, either in > Openoffice (ick) or with another tool? in fact shouldn't i be able to > generate this automatically from a set of terms, say, in a spreadsheet? Matt, What about GraphViz? Note: I haven't used it, but I know it can do this sort of thing programatically. http://www.graphviz.org/ - Julian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 12:54:25 2010 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 08:54:25 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: <4CD2A9A4.3030302-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD2A9A4.3030302@aquezada.com> Message-ID: Another option is dia http://live.gnome.org/Dia as it's purpose is to create diagrams and to be a lightweight Visio replacement. I've been using it to draw network diagrams and it works fine for that. On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On 11/04/2010 06:55 AM, Matt Price wrote: > > > I'm trying to do something that seems really simple to me but i still > > don't know how to do. I want to draw a timeline that represents the > > stages of a research project (inception, research, presentation, > > writing, submission, publication...) and I would like it to look > > something like this: > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > \ \ > > \ \ > > inception research > > > > only I want it to be pretty, say with little circular nodes connecting > > the digonal lines to the main horizontl lines, and with the text aligned > > diagonally along the lines. Shouldn't this be easy to do, either in > > Openoffice (ick) or with another tool? in fact shouldn't i be able to > > generate this automatically from a set of terms, say, in a spreadsheet? > > Matt, > > What about GraphViz? Note: I haven't used it, but I know it can do this > sort of thing programatically. > > http://www.graphviz.org/ > > - Julian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 13:37:14 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 09:37:14 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101104133714.GA30364@yam.witteman.ca> I would second the recommendations for dia and graphviz. I use dia whenever I need a 1-off diagram, and I use graphviz when I need something that is either going to have frequent textual changes, or will be reused with small changes a lot, or something that can be programmed. For your purposes, take a look at the dot tool in the graphviz package. PS. By the way, if you like the flex of dia but occasionally need programmability, the dia file format is an XML structure that looks amenable to programmatic tweaking. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 14:37:55 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 10:37:55 -0400 Subject: key mapping In-Reply-To: <4CD25092.5070203-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101103172707.GC12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101103211739.GD12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CD25092.5070203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101104143755.GE12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 04, 2010 at 02:20:02AM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > That's exactly what I had to do, in my previous reply I posted a link on > a howto I found. It works both on Xubuntu and Kubuntu, I don't know why > the Ubuntu installer seems to map the right ALT key to something stupid? > > I bought a bluetooth keyboard, it has a FN key that I want to map to > something else, and move the FN key to the otherside. However when I run > xev and press the key nothing is being detected. > > The keyboard I am using with my laptop running Xubuntu in VMware over Win7. > > Is there any other raw way to read key press and do key mapping? Look at dumpkeys, loadkeys, showkey, getkeycodes, and setkeycodes. Most likely the kernel doesn't generate a keycode for that key. Of course it could also be a hardcoded feature of the keyboard and hence not even accessible to software as a normal key. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 15:01:00 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 08:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <549943.95680.qm@web113415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Not sure what kind of tools you should use... but isn't vertical direction easier than horizontal? -- William > >From: Matt Price >To: TLUG >Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 6:55:12 AM >Subject: [TLUG]: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? > >Hi eveyone, > >I'm trying to do something that seems really simple to me but i still don't know >how to do. I want to draw a timeline that represents the stages of a research >project (inception, research, presentation, writing, submission, >publication...) and I would like it to look something like this: > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >\ \ > \ \ > inception research > >only I want it to be pretty, say with little circular nodes connecting the >digonal lines to the main horizontl lines, and with the text aligned diagonally >along the lines. Shouldn't this be easy to do, either in Openoffice (ick) or >with another tool? in fact shouldn't i be able to generate this automatically >from a set of terms, say, in a spreadsheet? > >and yet I haven't been able to do it. I will resort to gimp if i have to but >for me that means hours of fiddling with the arcane interface... > > >Thanks as always for your help! >Matt > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 15:54:16 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 11:54:16 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's a quick and dirty example of creating a gif file of what you want, with a bash script using ImageMagick. Of course you would want to make a subroutine for the mogrify commands that accepted an X coordinate offset and text as variables, then call it for each stage. You probably would also want to add colours, specific fonts, etc. Doing this with any other ImageMagick supported language would also be quite easy. ---------- #! /bin/bash convert -size 500x75 -draw 'line 10,10 490,10' xc: timeline.gif mogrify -draw 'circle 15,10 20,10' \ -draw 'line 15,10 65,60' \ -annotate 45x45+30+20 'Inception' \ timeline.gif mogrify -draw 'circle 55,10 60,10' \ -draw 'line 55,10 105,60' \ -annotate 45x45+70+20 'Research' \ timeline.gif mogrify -draw 'circle 255,10 260,10' \ -draw 'line 255,10 315,70' \ -annotate 45x45+270+20 'Presentation' \ timeline.gif ---------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 16:56:42 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 12:56:42 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CD2E5CA.90901@dinamis.com> On 11/04/2010 06:55 AM, Matt Price wrote: > Hi eveyone, > > I'm trying to do something that seems really simple to me but i still > don't know how to do. I want to draw a timeline that represents the > stages of a research project (inception, research, presentation, > writing, submission, publication...) and I would like it to look > something like this: Hi Matt, I recently learned how to use Graphviz so that I could have fancy diagrams in the Trac wiki. I've also used Kivio and Dia, which both work quite well, though I prefer the interface of Kivio. The Graphviz plug-in for Trac enabled me to create diagrams that could be viewed right in the wiki without having to download an attachment. I could have done that by exporting a Kivio diagram to PNG too, but the advantage of the Graphviz plug-in is that I can have hyperlinks in the various symbols to other diagrams, Trac tickets, Trac wiki pages, changesets, any web site, in short, anything that has a URL. You express the elements and relationships between those elements textually and Graphviz lays out the graphs using dot. I was fine with the layout it generated so I didn't have to tweak it at all but I did have the option of changing the layout if I wanted to. Here is a very simple graph that has four boxes with arrows joining them laid out vertically. {{{ #!graphviz digraph C { node [shape=box, fontsize=12, height=1, width=1.5]; { node [label="Start Process"] start_process; node [label="Create Listing", URL="classifieds-system/create-listing", style="filled", fillcolor="pink", color="black"] create_listing; node [label="Login and Pay", URL="classifieds-system/login-and-pay", style="filled", fillcolor="pink", color="black"] login_and_pay; node [label="End Process", URL="", fillcolor="white", color="black"] end_process; } start_process->create_listing; create_listing->login_and_pay; login_and_pay->end_process; } }}} The triple braces trigger the Trac Graphiz plug-in macro processor. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 17:09:17 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 13:09:17 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: <4CD2E5CA.90901-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD2E5CA.90901@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 4 November 2010 12:56, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 11/04/2010 06:55 AM, Matt Price wrote: >> Hi eveyone, >> >> I'm trying to do something that seems really simple to me but i still >> don't know how to do. ?I want to draw a timeline that represents the >> stages of a research project (inception, research, presentation, >> writing, submission, publication...) ?and I would like it to look >> something like this: > > Hi Matt, > > I recently learned how to use Graphviz so that I could have fancy diagrams > in the Trac wiki. I've also used Kivio and Dia, which both work quite well, > though I prefer the interface of Kivio. > > The Graphviz plug-in for Trac enabled me to create diagrams that could be > viewed right in the wiki without having to download an attachment. I could > have done that by exporting a Kivio diagram to PNG too, but the advantage of > the Graphviz plug-in is that I can have hyperlinks in the various symbols to > other diagrams, Trac tickets, Trac wiki pages, changesets, any web site, in > short, anything that has a URL. You express the elements and relationships > between those elements textually and Graphviz lays out the graphs using dot. > I was fine with the layout it generated so I didn't have to tweak it at all > but I did have the option of changing the layout if I wanted to. > > Here is a very simple graph that has four boxes with arrows joining them > laid out vertically. > > {{{ > #!graphviz > digraph C { > > ?node [shape=box, fontsize=12, height=1, width=1.5]; { > ? ?node [label="Start Process"] start_process; > ? ?node [label="Create Listing", URL="classifieds-system/create-listing", > style="filled", fillcolor="pink", color="black"] create_listing; > ? ?node [label="Login and Pay", URL="classifieds-system/login-and-pay", > style="filled", fillcolor="pink", color="black"] login_and_pay; > ? ?node [label="End Process", URL="", fillcolor="white", color="black"] > end_process; > ? ?} > > ?start_process->create_listing; > ?create_listing->login_and_pay; > ?login_and_pay->end_process; > } > }}} > > The triple braces trigger the Trac Graphiz plug-in macro processor. I'll add my voice to the recommendations for GraphViz and Dia (not familiar with Kivio). But I'm also writing to clarify the difference between the two: in Dia you explicitly place boxes, circles, and various other objects on a drawing space, and then link them. In GraphViz, you create a text file that says "I want a circle that says 'foo' in it, and a square that says 'bar' in it. Then draw a line between the two." Graphviz makes the decisions about physical spacing and presentation. So Dia is probably a lot better for one-offs and small diagrams, whereas GraphViz is better for the big stuff and things you're going to maintain and update. It also has the steeper learning curve - but it's proven worthwhile for me. Which is better for you is going to depend on what you plan on doing with this diagram in the future. As a quick demo of graphviz output (this could well convince you to use dia!, but I can't imagine maintaining it in that program), take a look at: http://www.gilesorr.com/wm/bloodlines.svg . -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 18:19:58 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 14:19:58 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: <4CD2E5CA.90901-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD2E5CA.90901@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:56 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > The Graphviz plug-in for Trac enabled me to create diagrams that could be > viewed right in the wiki without having to download an attachment. I could > have done that by exporting a Kivio diagram to PNG too, but the advantage of > the Graphviz plug-in is that I can have hyperlinks in the various symbols to > other diagrams, Trac tickets, Trac wiki pages, changesets, any web site, in > short, anything that has a URL. That's rather cool! It doesn't *quite* press me to look into Trac, (Which, by the way, is also an early macro programming language from the 1960s! ) But I like Graphviz plenty well. > You express the elements and relationships > between those elements textually and Graphviz lays out the graphs using dot. > I was fine with the layout it generated so I didn't have to tweak it at all > but I did have the option of changing the layout if I wanted to. Any time I have tried to do better than Graphviz, in its layout, I wind up losing! ;-) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 18:33:02 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 14:33:02 -0400 Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: References: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CD2FC5E.4080100@ve3syb.ca> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen >> I think your joke is a couple od decades out of date. Who uses octal >> anymore? In other words, you know you have been around computers for a long time if you get the joke? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 20:42:59 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 13:42:59 -0700 Subject: OT: Question about pre-recorded calls Message-ID: I figured somebody out there may have the answer to this... Every now and then I get calls from "The Brick" (ever since I bought furniture there last year, which was a nightmare in itself) about upcoming sales etc. It's always a pre-recorded message from whomever happens to be running the store at the time. I had *thought* that making robo-calls without an actually person on the other end was not legal. Can anyone clarify whether this is the case? -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 4 20:57:24 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 16:57:24 -0400 Subject: Q: Why do programmers always get Christmas and Halloween mixed up? In-Reply-To: <4CD2FC5E.4080100-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20101101160902.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CD2FC5E.4080100@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20101104205724.GF12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 04, 2010 at 02:33:02PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen >>> I think your joke is a couple od decades out of date. Who uses octal >>> anymore? > > In other words, you know you have been around computers for a long time > if you get the joke? ;-) Ehm, yeah I guess so. :) I can't be getting old yet. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 02:07:44 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 22:07:44 -0400 Subject: key mapping In-Reply-To: <20101104143755.GE12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101103172707.GC12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101103211739.GD12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CD25092.5070203@gmail.com> <20101104143755.GE12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 04, 2010 at 02:20:02AM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> That's exactly what I had to do, in my previous reply I posted a link on >> a howto I found. It works both on Xubuntu and Kubuntu, I don't know why >> the Ubuntu installer seems to map the right ALT key to something stupid? >> >> I bought a bluetooth keyboard, it has a FN key that I want to map to >> something else, and move the FN key to the otherside. However when I run >> xev and press the key nothing is being detected. >> >> The keyboard I am using with my laptop running Xubuntu in VMware over Win7. >> >> Is there any other raw way to read key press and do key mapping? > > Look at dumpkeys, loadkeys, showkey, getkeycodes, and setkeycodes. > > Most likely the kernel doesn't generate a keycode for that key. ?Of course > it could also be a hardcoded feature of the keyboard and hence not even > accessible to software as a normal key. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- the FN special key is not getting read, however i have a workaround but not sure how to do the following. I want to map a key combination [win]+pageup -> home [win]+pagedown -> end i know the keycode, but how to i combine 2 keycodes and produce a translated keycode ? thanks -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 11:42:51 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 07:42:51 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have no experience at all with this (just came across it on Freshmeat) but it looks like Asymptote may be another alternative to consider. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 12:55:17 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 08:55:17 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101105125517.GA12999@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 07:42:51AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: >I have no experience at all with this (just came across it on >Freshmeat) but it looks like Asymptote may be another alternative to >consider. > I think you'll find that this tool is close, but doesn't quite get there. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 13:57:04 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 09:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses Message-ID: I bought an Acer Aspire Revo 3610 a couple of months ago. It came with 4G of RAM (as advertised). But it doesn't make all of it available to the OS. I found this odd. I figured that this was a BIOS bug. So I bugged Acer. After much tooing and frowing, they said that it was a limitation of the Atom processor. I didn't think the Atom had such a limitation. One reason: I have another Atom box with 4G of RAM, all usable. Another: that limitation would be dumb. But then I read the spec sheet. The Atom 330 has enough address pins for 32G of physical address space. But there is a slight hint that it only drives enough of those pins for 4G. That means that less than 4G of RAM can be supported (an address window must be left for other devices). See Page 28 shows pins A[35:3]# but page 31 only specifies A[32:3]#. Apparently this was a modification to the specifications. Yuck! My Atom box with 4G that works uses a D510 CPU. That does not excuse Acer for advertising 4G when only 3.25G can be used. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 14:43:19 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2010 10:43:19 -0400 Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CD41807.7040301@gmail.com> On 11/5/2010 9:57 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: ... > That does not excuse Acer for advertising 4G when only 3.25G can be > used. Strangely, if it shipped with Windows XP, people are used to only seeing 3.25G when they're promised 4GB. They can blame the OS. If you load Linux, they can say that the OS is not supported. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 15:22:42 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 11:22:42 -0400 Subject: key mapping In-Reply-To: References: <20101103172707.GC12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101103211739.GD12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CD25092.5070203@gmail.com> <20101104143755.GE12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101105152242.GG12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 04, 2010 at 10:07:44PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > the FN special key is not getting read, however i have a workaround > but not sure how to do the following. I want to map a key combination > > [win]+pageup -> home > [win]+pagedown -> end > > i know the keycode, but how to i combine 2 keycodes and produce a > translated keycode ? I believe you can define the win key as a modifier (if it isn't already in X) and then define what pageup should do when modifier win is active. It may be that you need to get into modifying the keyboard layout to implement such a thing though. Look at setxkbmap and xkbcomp. I have never tried doing what you want, but I am sure it can be done somehow. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 15:29:08 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 11:29:08 -0400 Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 09:57:04AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I bought an Acer Aspire Revo 3610 a couple of months ago. It came > with 4G of RAM (as advertised). But it doesn't make all of it > available to the OS. > > I found this odd. I figured that this was a BIOS bug. So I bugged > Acer. After much tooing and frowing, they said that it was a > limitation of the Atom processor. > > I didn't think the Atom had such a limitation. One reason: I have > another Atom box with 4G of RAM, all usable. Another: that limitation > would be dumb. > > But then I read the spec sheet. The Atom 330 has enough address pins > for 32G of physical address space. But there is a slight hint that it > only drives enough of those pins for 4G. That means that less than 4G > of RAM can be supported (an address window must be left for other > devices). > > See > Page 28 shows pins A[35:3]# but page 31 only specifies A[32:3]#. > Apparently this was a modification to the specifications. > > Yuck! > > My Atom box with 4G that works uses a D510 CPU. > > That does not excuse Acer for advertising 4G when only 3.25G can be > used. The Atom 330 mobile versions are only 32bit capable. Desktop editions can do 64bit. Who knows which one acer used in their box. A 32bit version would only do up to 4GB address space after all. As for what Acer advertises, well it does have 4GB ram installed. The fact you can't use it all is a different issue. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 16:19:09 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 12:19:09 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: <20101105125517.GA12999-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101105125517.GA12999@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On 5 November 2010 08:55, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: (Re: using Asymptote to create the requested timeline) > I think you'll find that this tool is close, but doesn't quite get > there. Why not? It didn't take me long to learn Asymptote enough to produce something similar to my ImageMagick example (this time using a function to draw each stage at the proper position). I'm sure it could be improved with a little more experience. timeline.asy: ---------- int org=10; int h=100; int length=400; draw((org,h)--(length,h)); void drawstage(int x, int slen, string ltext) { int sstart=org+x; pair spr=(sstart, h); path spath=(spr--(sstart+slen, h-slen)); filldraw(circle(spr, 3)); draw(spath); label(rotate(-45)*ltext, spath, align=ENE); }; drawstage(0, 52, "Inception"); drawstage(60, 50, "Research"); drawstage(200, 65, "Presentation"); drawstage(320, 48, "Writing"); ---------- -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 16:38:16 2010 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:38:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? References: Message-ID: Matt Price writes: > Hi eveyone,I'm trying to do something that seems really simple to me but i still don't know how to do.? I want to draw a timeline that represents the stages of a research project (inception, research, presentation, writing, submission, publication...) The type of graph you are trying to draw looks like a Gantt chart. Searching for Gantt chart on the net will yield a lot of results. As others have pointed out, vertical Gantt charts are very popular if you need to cover any length of time beyond 4-5 'stops'. Last, the pic tool that works with roff/groff can help you make simple annotated graphs very fast. It is easy to learn and use and works on any *nix system. -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 17:49:10 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 13:49:10 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: <20101105125517.GA12999@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20101105174910.GA13986@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 12:19:09PM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: >On 5 November 2010 08:55, William O'Higgins Witteman > wrote: >(Re: using Asymptote to create the requested timeline) >> I think you'll find that this tool is close, but doesn't quite get >> there. > >Why not? It didn't take me long to learn Asymptote enough to produce >something similar to my ImageMagick example (this time using a >function to draw each stage at the proper position). I'm sure it could >be improved with a little more experience. I should have included a smiley :-) It looks like the tool would be fine - I was making a joke. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 18:07:48 2010 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 14:07:48 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Peter wrote: > > Last, the pic tool that works with roff/groff can help you > make simple annotated graphs very fast. It is easy to learn and use and works on > any *nix system. pic is remarkably powerful. I was hoping to find more on http://www.troff.org/ about it, but there might be something in the Books section. Stewart -- http://scruss.com/blog/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 18:22:28 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 14:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: <20101105152908.GH12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Mike Kallies | Strangely, if it shipped with Windows XP, people are used to only seeing | 3.25G when they're promised 4GB. They can blame the OS. It shipped with WIn7 home premium 64-bit. So they cannot blame the OS (some support folk tried anyway). Win7 says 4.0 G of RAM, 3.0 available. The shared video memory accounts for 0.25G on top of that. So 0.75G is missing. | If you load Linux, they can say that the OS is not supported. Oh yeah. I told them that I booted a live Linux CD and they demanded that I reinstall Win7 to fix Win7 in case I had broken it. With a live CD! Linux sees 3.25G which, with the 0.25G shared video memory, leaves 0.5G missing (based on reading the MTRRs). I don't know why Linux sees more than Windows. | From: Lennart Sorensen | The Atom 330 mobile versions are only 32bit capable. Desktop editions | can do 64bit. Who knows which one acer used in their box. A 32bit | version would only do up to 4GB address space after all. This is non-mobile: it runs x86-64 software (Win7 and Linux). Even 32-bit hardware, since the Pentium Pro, has had PAE to allow more that 32-bit physical addresses. I imagine that this hardware has PAE but just doesn't drive the pins. | As for what Acer advertises, well it does have 4GB ram installed. | The fact you can't use it all is a different issue. :) I would call it misleading. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 18:29:29 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 14:29:29 -0400 Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101105182929.GI12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 02:22:28PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Mike Kallies > > | Strangely, if it shipped with Windows XP, people are used to only seeing > | 3.25G when they're promised 4GB. They can blame the OS. > > It shipped with WIn7 home premium 64-bit. So they cannot blame the OS > (some support folk tried anyway). > > Win7 says 4.0 G of RAM, 3.0 available. The shared video memory > accounts for 0.25G on top of that. So 0.75G is missing. > > | If you load Linux, they can say that the OS is not supported. > > Oh yeah. I told them that I booted a live Linux CD and they demanded > that I reinstall Win7 to fix Win7 in case I had broken it. With a > live CD! Well they get what they pay for in support people, which is not much. > Linux sees 3.25G which, with the 0.25G shared video memory, leaves > 0.5G missing (based on reading the MTRRs). I don't know why Linux > sees more than Windows. > > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | The Atom 330 mobile versions are only 32bit capable. Desktop editions > | can do 64bit. Who knows which one acer used in their box. A 32bit > | version would only do up to 4GB address space after all. > > This is non-mobile: it runs x86-64 software (Win7 and Linux). > > Even 32-bit hardware, since the Pentium Pro, has had PAE to allow more > that 32-bit physical addresses. I imagine that this hardware has PAE > but just doesn't drive the pins. I am not sure if that atom uses a chipset for memory controller or if it has it onboard. Certainly the earlier atoms used chipsets for it and those were generally older style low end laptop chipsets that were limited to 4GB address space and didn't support remapping above 4GB. Intel annoyingly took forever too get around to adding remapping to desktop chipsets, while AMD had it early on. > | As for what Acer advertises, well it does have 4GB ram installed. > | The fact you can't use it all is a different issue. :) > > I would call it misleading. Sure. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 18:31:13 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 14:31:13 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101105183113.GA4612@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 02:07:48PM -0400, Stewart Russell wrote: > On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Peter wrote: > > > > Last, the pic tool that works with roff/groff can help you > > make simple annotated graphs very fast. It is easy to learn and use and works on > > any *nix system. > > pic is remarkably powerful. I was hoping to find more on > http://www.troff.org/ about it, but there might be something in the > Books section. I don't know why *roff didn't take off. It could be that paragraphs are difficult to read due all the markups (you know what I mean if you ever read the manpage source), but you can say that for LaTeX or HTML also. If I win a lottery, "document" is one area I'll throw money at. Another area being, "accounting". :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 20:03:27 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: <20101105182929.GI12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101105182929.GI12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | I am not sure if that atom uses a chipset for memory controller or if | it has it onboard. Certainly the earlier atoms used chipsets for it | and those were generally older style low end laptop chipsets that were | limited to 4GB address space and didn't support remapping above 4GB. | Intel annoyingly took forever too get around to adding remapping to | desktop chipsets, while AMD had it early on. The Acer Revo uses the nVidia ION chipset. I understand that it handles more than 4G of physical address space. But no matter: the CPU won't deliver (if I understand the specs properly, and I admit that the wording isn't clear). I guess I should poke Intel to see if my interpretation of the spec is correct. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 21:00:45 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 17:00:45 -0400 Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101105182929.GI12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101105210045.GJ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 04:03:27PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The Acer Revo uses the nVidia ION chipset. I understand that it > handles more than 4G of physical address space. But no matter: the > CPU won't deliver (if I understand the specs properly, and I admit > that the wording isn't clear). It is limited to 4GB. > I guess I should poke Intel to see if my interpretation of the spec is > correct. The Atom 330 (and 230) certainly do not support memory remapping, so you will loose some ram between 3 and 4GB no matter what. The number of address lines listed in the data sheet have apparently been somewhat messed up with different editions showing different values. Apparently atoms were 32bit address only. Not sure if newer models can address more memory, but certainly the 230/330 can not. Some have 64bit code support, but they did not have 64bit address support. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 21:12:13 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 17:12:13 -0400 Subject: An Outliner application for Linux that can read and write OPML files. Message-ID: I have been writing Outlines in a text editor using the Markdown syntax of years. But I would like to move to an OPML base system. I have seen Org-Mode and VimOutliner and nether of them can natively read or write to an OPML file. So does anyone know an Outlining software that runs on Linux (preferably on that is in the Debian repository) that can open OPML files? -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 5 22:04:22 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2010 18:04:22 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: <4CD2E5CA.90901@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4CD47F66.6010502@dinamis.com> On 11/04/2010 02:19 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:56 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY > wrote: >> The Graphviz plug-in for Trac enabled me to create diagrams that could be >> viewed right in the wiki without having to download an attachment. I could >> have done that by exporting a Kivio diagram to PNG too, but the advantage of >> the Graphviz plug-in is that I can have hyperlinks in the various symbols to >> other diagrams, Trac tickets, Trac wiki pages, changesets, any web site, in >> short, anything that has a URL. > > That's rather cool! It doesn't *quite* press me to look into Trac, There are plenty of other reasons to use Trac, like a configurable ticket workflow that we use quite effectively. We use Trac milestones to represent two week iterations (in "agile" parlance). Tickets are opened for defects, enhancement requests, tasks, or requests for information and we use the ticket owner for "ball in court" handling. The ticket states that I remember (without checking) are: new, assigned, wip (work in progress), pending_approval, approved, ready_for_testing, needs_work, closed. With a custom Trac report, project participants have a very good overview of the status of the project all in one place. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 6 16:37:34 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 12:37:34 -0400 Subject: kernel panic after fresh install Message-ID: <4CD5844E.6090305@gmail.com> Guys I am having a problem after a fresh installed of Xubuntu 10.10 on my old server. I get a kernel panic, the 1st line of the message says: Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0) Here is a copy of the boot info script output, can someone tell me how I might be able to get my system to bootup? I am able to boot into my system and mount my root / filesystem. Boot Info Script 0.55 dated February 15th, 2010 ============================= Boot Info Summary: ============================== => Grub 2 is installed in the MBR of /dev/sda and looks on the same drive in partition #1 for (,msdos1)/boot/grub. sda1: _________________________________________________________________________ File system: ext4 Boot sector type: - Boot sector info: Operating System: Ubuntu 10.10 Boot files/dirs: /boot/grub/grub.cfg /etc/fstab /boot/grub/core.img sda2: _________________________________________________________________________ File system: Extended Partition Boot sector type: Unknown Boot sector info: sda5: _________________________________________________________________________ File system: swap Boot sector type: - Boot sector info: =========================== Drive/Partition Info: ============================= Drive: sda ___________________ _____________________________________________________ Disk /dev/sda: 30.8 GB, 30758289408 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 3739 cylinders, total 60074784 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Partition Boot Start End Size Id System /dev/sda1 * 2,048 59,887,615 59,885,568 83 Linux /dev/sda2 59,889,662 60,073,983 184,322 5 Extended /dev/sda5 59,889,664 60,073,983 184,320 82 Linux swap / Solaris blkid -c /dev/null: ____________________________________________________________ Device UUID TYPE LABEL /dev/sda1 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 ext4 root /dev/sda2: PTTYPE="dos" /dev/sda5 8a9cba64-836f-4bff-abc0-46d53200658d swap /dev/sda: PTTYPE="dos" ============================ "mount | grep ^/dev output: =========================== Device Mount_Point Type Options /dev/sda1 / ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro,barrier=1,data=ordered) /dev/scd0 /media/cdrom iso9660 (ro,relatime) =========================== sda1/boot/grub/grub.cfg: =========================== # # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE # # It is automatically generated by grub-mkconfig using templates # from /etc/grub.d and settings from /etc/default/grub # ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/00_header ### if [ -s $prefix/grubenv ]; then set have_grubenv=true load_env fi set default="0" if [ "${prev_saved_entry}" ]; then set saved_entry="${prev_saved_entry}" save_env saved_entry set prev_saved_entry= save_env prev_saved_entry set boot_once=true fi function savedefault { if [ -z "${boot_once}" ]; then saved_entry="${chosen}" save_env saved_entry fi } function recordfail { set recordfail=1 if [ -n "${have_grubenv}" ]; then if [ -z "${boot_once}" ]; then save_env recordfail; fi; fi } function load_video { insmod vbe insmod vga } insmod part_msdos insmod ext2 set root='(hd0,msdos1)' search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 if loadfont /usr/share/grub/unicode.pf2 ; then set gfxmode=640x480 load_video insmod gfxterm fi terminal_output gfxterm insmod part_msdos insmod ext2 set root='(hd0,msdos1)' search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 set locale_dir=($root)/boot/grub/locale set lang=C.UTF-8 insmod gettext if [ "${recordfail}" = 1 ]; then set timeout=-1 else set timeout=10 fi ### END /etc/grub.d/00_header ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ### set menu_color_normal=white/black set menu_color_highlight=black/light-gray ### END /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ### menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 2.6.35-22-generic' --class ubuntu --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os { recordfail insmod part_msdos insmod ext2 set root='(hd0,msdos1)' search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic root=UUID=54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 ro quiet splash initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic } menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 2.6.35-22-generic (recovery mode)' --class ubuntu --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os { recordfail insmod part_msdos insmod ext2 set root='(hd0,msdos1)' search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 echo 'Loading Linux 2.6.35-22-generic ...' linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic root=UUID=54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 ro single echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...' initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic } ### END /etc/grub.d/10_linux ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen ### ### END /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ ### menuentry "Memory test (memtest86+)" { insmod part_msdos insmod ext2 set root='(hd0,msdos1)' search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 linux16 /boot/memtest86+.bin } menuentry "Memory test (memtest86+, serial console 115200)" { insmod part_msdos insmod ext2 set root='(hd0,msdos1)' search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 linux16 /boot/memtest86+.bin console=ttyS0,115200n8 } ### END /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ### if [ "x${timeout}" != "x-1" ]; then if keystatus; then if keystatus --shift; then set timeout=-1 else set timeout=0 fi else if sleep --interruptible 3 ; then set timeout=0 fi fi fi ### END /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/40_custom ### # This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply type the # menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be careful not to change # the 'exec tail' line above. ### END /etc/grub.d/40_custom ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/41_custom ### if [ -f $prefix/custom.cfg ]; then source $prefix/custom.cfg; fi ### END /etc/grub.d/41_custom ### =============================== sda1/etc/fstab: =============================== # /etc/fstab: static file system information. # # Use 'blkid -o value -s UUID' to print the universally unique identifier # for a device; this may be used with UUID= as a more robust way to name # devices that works even if disks are added and removed. See fstab(5). # # proc /proc proc nodev,noexec,nosuid 0 0 # / was on /dev/sda1 during installation UUID=54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 / ext4 errors=remount-ro 0 1 # swap was on /dev/sda5 during installation UUID=8a9cba64-836f-4bff-abc0-46d53200658d none swap sw 0 0 =================== sda1: Location of files loaded by Grub: =================== 10.8GB: boot/grub/core.img 10.8GB: boot/grub/grub.cfg .4GB: boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic 10.8GB: boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic .4GB: initrd.img 10.8GB: vmlinuz =========================== Unknown MBRs/Boot Sectors/etc ======================= Unknown BootLoader on sda2 00000000 a4 ff 8b 54 24 54 89 14 24 ff d0 84 c0 74 b8 8b |...T$T..$....t..| 00000010 4c 24 78 8b 01 89 0c 24 ff 90 c8 00 00 00 8b 4c |L$x....$.......L| 00000020 24 70 8b 11 8b 4c 24 74 89 44 24 0c 8b 44 24 48 |$p...L$t.D$..D$H| 00000030 89 4c 24 04 89 44 24 08 8b 44 24 70 89 04 24 ff |.L$..D$..D$p..$.| 00000040 92 94 00 00 00 83 c4 5c 5b 5e 5f 5d c3 8b 54 24 |.......\[^_]..T$| 00000050 70 8b 02 89 14 24 ff 90 90 00 00 00 89 44 24 58 |p....$.......D$X| 00000060 e9 f9 fd ff ff 90 8d 76 00 8d bc 27 00 00 00 00 |.......v...'....| 00000070 83 ec 4c 89 74 24 40 8b 74 24 54 89 5c 24 3c 89 |..L.t$@.t$T.\$<.| 00000080 7c 24 44 89 6c 24 48 8b 06 e8 39 a9 a5 ff 81 c3 ||$D.l$H...9.....| 00000090 8e 39 74 00 89 34 24 ff 90 d8 05 00 00 89 44 24 |.9t..4$.......D$| 000000a0 34 8b 06 89 34 24 ff 90 e0 05 00 00 89 44 24 38 |4...4$.......D$8| 000000b0 8b 06 89 34 24 ff 90 e8 05 00 00 89 c5 8b 06 89 |...4$...........| 000000c0 34 24 ff 90 f0 05 00 00 89 c7 8b 06 89 34 24 ff |4$...........4$.| 000000d0 90 d0 05 00 00 89 7c 24 1c 89 6c 24 18 89 34 24 |......|$..l$..4$| 000000e0 89 44 24 2c 8b 44 24 6c 89 44 24 28 8b 44 24 68 |.D$,.D$l.D$(.D$h| 000000f0 89 44 24 24 8b 44 24 64 89 44 24 20 8b 44 24 38 |.D$$.D$d.D$ .D$8| 00000100 89 44 24 14 8b 44 24 34 89 44 24 10 8b 44 24 60 |.D$..D$4.D$..D$`| 00000110 89 44 24 0c 8b 44 24 5c 89 44 24 08 8b 44 24 58 |.D$..D$\.D$..D$X| 00000120 89 44 24 04 e8 7b 1c a5 ff 8b 5c 24 3c 8b 74 24 |.D$..{....\$<.t$| 00000130 40 8b 7c 24 44 8b 6c 24 48 83 c4 4c c3 90 66 90 |@.|$D.l$H..L..f.| 00000140 55 57 56 53 e8 7e a8 a5 ff 81 c3 d3 38 74 00 83 |UWVS.~......8t..| 00000150 ec 5c 8b 83 c0 c2 ff ff 89 04 24 e8 74 91 a3 ff |.\........$.t...| 00000160 8b b3 40 5f ff ff 89 34 24 e8 46 f0 a3 ff 89 44 |.. at _...4$.F....D| 00000170 24 3c 89 04 24 e8 ca 83 a5 ff 89 34 24 e8 32 f0 |$<..$......4$.2.| 00000180 a3 ff 89 c5 89 04 24 e8 b8 83 a5 ff 8b 54 24 70 |......$......T$p| 00000190 8b 02 89 14 24 ff 90 bc 03 00 00 89 34 24 89 44 |....$.......4$.D| 000001a0 24 58 e8 0d f0 a3 ff 89 44 24 38 89 04 24 e8 91 |$X......D$8..$..| 000001b0 83 a5 ff 8b 4c 24 70 8b 01 89 0c 24 ff 50 00 fe |....L$p....$.P..| 000001c0 ff ff 82 fe ff ff 02 00 00 00 00 d0 02 00 00 00 |................| 000001d0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................| * 000001f0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 aa |..............U.| 00000200 -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From wheagy1-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 6 17:28:21 2010 From: wheagy1-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Bill Heagy) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 13:28:21 -0400 Subject: kernel panic after fresh install In-Reply-To: <4CD5844E.6090305-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD5844E.6090305@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CD59035.6000305@rogers.com> I had that problem after I upgraded from 10.04. I could run with the old kernels, so I lived with it for awhile, but then I just uninstalled the new kernel image and reinstalled it, and everything has been fine since then. Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Guys I am having a problem after a fresh installed of Xubuntu 10.10 on > my old server. I get a kernel panic, the 1st line of the message says: > > Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on > unknown-block(0,0) > > Here is a copy of the boot info script output, can someone tell me how I > might be able to get my system to bootup? I am able to boot into my > system and mount my root / filesystem. > > > Boot Info Script 0.55 dated February 15th, 2010 > > ============================= Boot Info Summary: > ============================== > > => Grub 2 is installed in the MBR of /dev/sda and looks on the same > drive in > partition #1 for (,msdos1)/boot/grub. > > sda1: > _________________________________________________________________________ > > File system: ext4 > Boot sector type: - > Boot sector info: > Operating System: Ubuntu 10.10 > Boot files/dirs: /boot/grub/grub.cfg /etc/fstab /boot/grub/core.img > > sda2: > _________________________________________________________________________ > > File system: Extended Partition > Boot sector type: Unknown > Boot sector info: > > sda5: > _________________________________________________________________________ > > File system: swap > Boot sector type: - > Boot sector info: > > =========================== Drive/Partition Info: > ============================= > > Drive: sda ___________________ > _____________________________________________________ > > Disk /dev/sda: 30.8 GB, 30758289408 bytes > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 3739 cylinders, total 60074784 sectors > Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes > Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > > Partition Boot Start End Size Id System > > /dev/sda1 * 2,048 59,887,615 59,885,568 83 Linux > /dev/sda2 59,889,662 60,073,983 184,322 5 Extended > /dev/sda5 59,889,664 60,073,983 184,320 82 Linux swap / Solaris > > > blkid -c /dev/null: > ____________________________________________________________ > > Device UUID TYPE LABEL > > /dev/sda1 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 ext4 root > /dev/sda2: PTTYPE="dos" > /dev/sda5 8a9cba64-836f-4bff-abc0-46d53200658d swap > /dev/sda: PTTYPE="dos" > > ============================ "mount | grep ^/dev output: > =========================== > > Device Mount_Point Type Options > > /dev/sda1 / ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro,barrier=1,data=ordered) > /dev/scd0 /media/cdrom iso9660 (ro,relatime) > > > =========================== sda1/boot/grub/grub.cfg: > =========================== > > # > # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE > # > # It is automatically generated by grub-mkconfig using templates > # from /etc/grub.d and settings from /etc/default/grub > # > > ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/00_header ### > if [ -s $prefix/grubenv ]; then > set have_grubenv=true > load_env > fi > set default="0" > if [ "${prev_saved_entry}" ]; then > set saved_entry="${prev_saved_entry}" > save_env saved_entry > set prev_saved_entry= > save_env prev_saved_entry > set boot_once=true > fi > > function savedefault { > if [ -z "${boot_once}" ]; then > saved_entry="${chosen}" > save_env saved_entry > fi > } > > function recordfail { > set recordfail=1 > if [ -n "${have_grubenv}" ]; then if [ -z "${boot_once}" ]; then > save_env recordfail; fi; fi > } > > function load_video { > insmod vbe > insmod vga > } > > insmod part_msdos > insmod ext2 > set root='(hd0,msdos1)' > search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 > if loadfont /usr/share/grub/unicode.pf2 ; then > set gfxmode=640x480 > load_video > insmod gfxterm > fi > terminal_output gfxterm > insmod part_msdos > insmod ext2 > set root='(hd0,msdos1)' > search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 > set locale_dir=($root)/boot/grub/locale > set lang=C.UTF-8 > insmod gettext > if [ "${recordfail}" = 1 ]; then > set timeout=-1 > else > set timeout=10 > fi > ### END /etc/grub.d/00_header ### > > ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ### > set menu_color_normal=white/black > set menu_color_highlight=black/light-gray > ### END /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ### > > ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ### > menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 2.6.35-22-generic' --class ubuntu --class > gnu-linux --class gnu --class os { > recordfail > insmod part_msdos > insmod ext2 > set root='(hd0,msdos1)' > search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 > linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic > root=UUID=54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 ro quiet splash > initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic > } > menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 2.6.35-22-generic (recovery mode)' --class > ubuntu --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os { > recordfail > insmod part_msdos > insmod ext2 > set root='(hd0,msdos1)' > search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 > echo 'Loading Linux 2.6.35-22-generic ...' > linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic > root=UUID=54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 ro single > echo 'Loading initial ramdisk ...' > initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic > } > ### END /etc/grub.d/10_linux ### > > ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen ### > ### END /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen ### > > ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ ### > menuentry "Memory test (memtest86+)" { > insmod part_msdos > insmod ext2 > set root='(hd0,msdos1)' > search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 > linux16 /boot/memtest86+.bin > } > menuentry "Memory test (memtest86+, serial console 115200)" { > insmod part_msdos > insmod ext2 > set root='(hd0,msdos1)' > search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 > linux16 /boot/memtest86+.bin console=ttyS0,115200n8 > } > ### END /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ ### > > ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ### > if [ "x${timeout}" != "x-1" ]; then > if keystatus; then > if keystatus --shift; then > set timeout=-1 > else > set timeout=0 > fi > else > if sleep --interruptible 3 ; then > set timeout=0 > fi > fi > fi > ### END /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ### > > ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/40_custom ### > # This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply type > the > # menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be careful not to change > # the 'exec tail' line above. > ### END /etc/grub.d/40_custom ### > > ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/41_custom ### > if [ -f $prefix/custom.cfg ]; then > source $prefix/custom.cfg; > fi > ### END /etc/grub.d/41_custom ### > > =============================== sda1/etc/fstab: > =============================== > > # /etc/fstab: static file system information. > # > # Use 'blkid -o value -s UUID' to print the universally unique identifier > # for a device; this may be used with UUID= as a more robust way to name > # devices that works even if disks are added and removed. See fstab(5). > # > # > proc /proc proc nodev,noexec,nosuid 0 0 > # / was on /dev/sda1 during installation > UUID=54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 / ext4 errors=remount-ro 0 1 > # swap was on /dev/sda5 during installation > UUID=8a9cba64-836f-4bff-abc0-46d53200658d none swap sw 0 0 > > =================== sda1: Location of files loaded by Grub: > =================== > > > 10.8GB: boot/grub/core.img > 10.8GB: boot/grub/grub.cfg > .4GB: boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic > 10.8GB: boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic > .4GB: initrd.img > 10.8GB: vmlinuz > =========================== Unknown MBRs/Boot Sectors/etc > ======================= > > Unknown BootLoader on sda2 > > 00000000 a4 ff 8b 54 24 54 89 14 24 ff d0 84 c0 74 b8 8b |...T$T..$....t..| > 00000010 4c 24 78 8b 01 89 0c 24 ff 90 c8 00 00 00 8b 4c |L$x....$.......L| > 00000020 24 70 8b 11 8b 4c 24 74 89 44 24 0c 8b 44 24 48 |$p...L$t.D$..D$H| > 00000030 89 4c 24 04 89 44 24 08 8b 44 24 70 89 04 24 ff |.L$..D$..D$p..$.| > 00000040 92 94 00 00 00 83 c4 5c 5b 5e 5f 5d c3 8b 54 24 |.......\[^_]..T$| > 00000050 70 8b 02 89 14 24 ff 90 90 00 00 00 89 44 24 58 |p....$.......D$X| > 00000060 e9 f9 fd ff ff 90 8d 76 00 8d bc 27 00 00 00 00 |.......v...'....| > 00000070 83 ec 4c 89 74 24 40 8b 74 24 54 89 5c 24 3c 89 |..L.t$@.t$T.\$<.| > 00000080 7c 24 44 89 6c 24 48 8b 06 e8 39 a9 a5 ff 81 c3 ||$D.l$H...9.....| > 00000090 8e 39 74 00 89 34 24 ff 90 d8 05 00 00 89 44 24 |.9t..4$.......D$| > 000000a0 34 8b 06 89 34 24 ff 90 e0 05 00 00 89 44 24 38 |4...4$.......D$8| > 000000b0 8b 06 89 34 24 ff 90 e8 05 00 00 89 c5 8b 06 89 |...4$...........| > 000000c0 34 24 ff 90 f0 05 00 00 89 c7 8b 06 89 34 24 ff |4$...........4$.| > 000000d0 90 d0 05 00 00 89 7c 24 1c 89 6c 24 18 89 34 24 |......|$..l$..4$| > 000000e0 89 44 24 2c 8b 44 24 6c 89 44 24 28 8b 44 24 68 |.D$,.D$l.D$(.D$h| > 000000f0 89 44 24 24 8b 44 24 64 89 44 24 20 8b 44 24 38 |.D$$.D$d.D$ .D$8| > 00000100 89 44 24 14 8b 44 24 34 89 44 24 10 8b 44 24 60 |.D$..D$4.D$..D$`| > 00000110 89 44 24 0c 8b 44 24 5c 89 44 24 08 8b 44 24 58 |.D$..D$\.D$..D$X| > 00000120 89 44 24 04 e8 7b 1c a5 ff 8b 5c 24 3c 8b 74 24 |.D$..{....\$<.t$| > 00000130 40 8b 7c 24 44 8b 6c 24 48 83 c4 4c c3 90 66 90 |@.|$D.l$H..L..f.| > 00000140 55 57 56 53 e8 7e a8 a5 ff 81 c3 d3 38 74 00 83 |UWVS.~......8t..| > 00000150 ec 5c 8b 83 c0 c2 ff ff 89 04 24 e8 74 91 a3 ff |.\........$.t...| > 00000160 8b b3 40 5f ff ff 89 34 24 e8 46 f0 a3 ff 89 44 |.. at _...4$.F....D| > 00000170 24 3c 89 04 24 e8 ca 83 a5 ff 89 34 24 e8 32 f0 |$<..$......4$.2.| > 00000180 a3 ff 89 c5 89 04 24 e8 b8 83 a5 ff 8b 54 24 70 |......$......T$p| > 00000190 8b 02 89 14 24 ff 90 bc 03 00 00 89 34 24 89 44 |....$.......4$.D| > 000001a0 24 58 e8 0d f0 a3 ff 89 44 24 38 89 04 24 e8 91 |$X......D$8..$..| > 000001b0 83 a5 ff 8b 4c 24 70 8b 01 89 0c 24 ff 50 00 fe |....L$p....$.P..| > 000001c0 ff ff 82 fe ff ff 02 00 00 00 00 d0 02 00 00 00 |................| > 000001d0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................| > * > 000001f0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 aa |..............U.| > 00000200 > > > -- Bill Heagy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 6 19:05:52 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 15:05:52 -0400 Subject: kernel panic after fresh install In-Reply-To: <4CD59035.6000305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD5844E.6090305@gmail.com> <4CD59035.6000305@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CD5A710.6040905@gmail.com> On 10-11-06 01:28 PM, Bill Heagy wrote: > I had that problem after I upgraded from 10.04. I could run with the old > kernels, so I lived with it for awhile, but then I just uninstalled the > new kernel image and reinstalled it, and everything has been fine since > then. > silly q, how can i uninstall and reinstall kernel image? i can only boot into command-line rescue mode since i can only install using the alternative non-gui CD -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 6 19:18:07 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 15:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: <20101105210045.GJ12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101105182929.GI12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101105210045.GJ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 04:03:27PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > The Acer Revo uses the nVidia ION chipset. I understand that it | > handles more than 4G of physical address space. But no matter: the | > CPU won't deliver (if I understand the specs properly, and I admit | > that the wording isn't clear). | | It is limited to 4GB. "It" == ION? Where did you get that information? I have not found it with a few minutes of googling. | > I guess I should poke Intel to see if my interpretation of the spec is | > correct. | | The Atom 330 (and 230) certainly do not support memory remapping, so | you will loose some ram between 3 and 4GB no matter what. My (possibly misinformed) understanding is that the physical addresses go across the Front-Side Bus "in the raw". So remapping would be the job of the ION chipset. After all, memory and most other things that can be addressed are attached via the chipset (perhaps some CPU resources can be addressed without going across the FSB). The remapping would be set up by the BIOS. But it would be pointless: anything above 4G could not be addressed by the brain-damaged Atom 330. Why do I say brain damaged? Because it supports the Intel FSB spec except for the missing (undriven) address bits. The pins are there but are not driven. This same FSB is used by Atom, Core, etc. so the same chipsets work with it (some newer Atoms use CMOS instead of GTL+ signalling on the FSB). | The number | of address lines listed in the data sheet have apparently been somewhat | messed up with different editions showing different values. Apparently | atoms were 32bit address only. Not sure if newer models can address | more memory, but certainly the 230/330 can not. Some have 64bit code | support, but they did not have 64bit address support. Of course 64-bit Atoms have wide virtual address support. Otherwise 64-bit operating systems would not work. AMD64 currently limits virtual addresses to 48 bits and I guess that Intel 64 is the same. All that the Atom can be missing is drivers for the top bits for physical addresses (and the very few upstream logic blocks associated only with them). This smells like intentional crippling. I'm sure that at least some newer Atoms can address more memory: I have an Atom D510 system that does this. It does not have an ION chipset. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 6 21:05:54 2010 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 21:05:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? References: <20101105183113.GA4612@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: William Park writes: > I don't know why *roff didn't take off. It could be that paragraphs are ... Why would you say that? 95% of unix online manpages are *roff source and served compiled on-the-fly whenever one looks at a man page. The number of installed systems must be in the double digit millions. I would call that "flying pretty well", even for a 30+ (?) year old system that was not particularly highly regarded even by those who made it as far as I can tell. Just throwing plain text at groff without markup yields stunning results (hyphenated and all) on account of the sane defaults built into the default installations. Just for fun try References: <4CD5844E.6090305@gmail.com> <4CD59035.6000305@rogers.com> <4CD5A710.6040905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CD5D30E.1090809@gmail.com> On 10-11-06 03:05 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > On 10-11-06 01:28 PM, Bill Heagy wrote: >> I had that problem after I upgraded from 10.04. I could run with the old >> kernels, so I lived with it for awhile, but then I just uninstalled the >> new kernel image and reinstalled it, and everything has been fine since >> then. >> > > silly q, how can i uninstall and reinstall kernel image? i can only boot > into command-line rescue mode since i can only install using the > alternative non-gui CD > > pull down the kernel source and in the process of building a new kernel for the system, will report back if this fixes the problem i am seeing -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 6 22:17:54 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 18:17:54 -0400 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: <20101105183113.GA4612@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20101106221754.GA5490@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Nov 06, 2010 at 09:05:54PM +0000, Peter wrote: > William Park writes: > > I don't know why *roff didn't take off. It could be that paragraphs are > ... > > Why would you say that? 95% of unix online manpages are *roff source and served > compiled on-the-fly whenever one looks at a man page. The number of installed > systems must be in the double digit millions. I would call that "flying pretty > well", even for a 30+ (?) year old system that was not particularly highly > regarded even by those who made it as far as I can tell. > > Just throwing plain text at groff without markup yields stunning results > (hyphenated and all) on account of the sane defaults built into the default > installations. Just for fun try yield the corresponding nicely formatted page. loret is a pretty harsh test > because nothing hyphenates Latin correctly now - or ever? (not that I'd see any > mistakes - my "Latin" knowledge comes from one year or that in school crutched > up by speaking 2 modern Romance languages). And yes groff seems to have made > right guesses at hyphenating even Latin, which is regular etc., but still... > chapeau. > > I never did anything serious with PIC but I played with it and I like it very > much for simple flowcharts and diagrams. When was last time you actually wrote *roff document from scratch? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 6 23:57:10 2010 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 19:57:10 -0400 Subject: kernel panic after fresh install In-Reply-To: <4CD5844E.6090305-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD5844E.6090305@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1289087830.20994.1403961445@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 12:37 -0400, "Rajinder Yadav" wrote: > Guys I am having a problem after a fresh installed of Xubuntu 10.10 on > my old server. I get a kernel panic, the 1st line of the message says: > > Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on > unknown-block(0,0) > > Here is a copy of the boot info script output, can someone tell me how I > might be able to get my system to bootup? I am able to boot into my > system and mount my root / filesystem. This may be going out on a limb, but just how old is your server? In particular, what kind of processor does it have? Maverick is the first *ubuntu to require a P6-class processor; P5-class machines such as the Pentium MMX, AMD K6 series, Cyrix MII, etc. need not apply. What is the output of /proc/cpuinfo? Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 7 00:55:09 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 20:55:09 -0400 Subject: kernel panic after fresh install In-Reply-To: <1289087830.20994.1403961445-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD5844E.6090305@gmail.com> <1289087830.20994.1403961445@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4CD5F8ED.6010004@gmail.com> On 10-11-06 07:57 PM, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 12:37 -0400, "Rajinder Yadav" > wrote: >> Guys I am having a problem after a fresh installed of Xubuntu 10.10 on >> my old server. I get a kernel panic, the 1st line of the message says: >> >> Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on >> unknown-block(0,0) >> >> Here is a copy of the boot info script output, can someone tell me how I >> might be able to get my system to bootup? I am able to boot into my >> system and mount my root / filesystem. > > This may be going out on a limb, but just how old is your server? In > particular, what kind of processor does it have? Maverick is the first > *ubuntu to require a P6-class processor; P5-class machines such as the > Pentium MMX, AMD K6 series, Cyrix MII, etc. need not apply. > > What is the output of /proc/cpuinfo? > > Amanda I am in the lost process of building the kernel. But I know the CPU is AMD Athlon 1000+, I can install Debian 5.0 just fine. I installed Xubuntu on my laptop in VMWare and I really like the simple clean feel, so I thought it would be good to throw it on my old box that I am using as a test server. Also I can boot off the (alternative) install CD I am using, drop into console mode after I mount my / root filesystem. So if that kernel image works for me, what the heck is going wrong? I can't figure this out. I've tried google and nothing really helpful about Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0) -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 7 01:16:24 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 21:16:24 -0400 Subject: kernel panic after fresh install In-Reply-To: <4CD5F8ED.6010004-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD5844E.6090305@gmail.com> <1289087830.20994.1403961445@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4CD5F8ED.6010004@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 8:55 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > On 10-11-06 07:57 PM, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: >> >> On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 12:37 -0400, "Rajinder Yadav" >> wrote: >>> >>> Guys I am having a problem after a fresh installed of Xubuntu 10.10 on >>> my old server. I get a kernel panic, the 1st line of the message says: >>> >>> Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on >>> unknown-block(0,0) >>> >>> Here is a copy of the boot info script output, can someone tell me how I >>> might be able to get my system to bootup? I am able to boot into my >>> system and mount my root / filesystem. >> >> This may be going out on a limb, but just how old is your server? In >> particular, what kind of processor does it have? Maverick is the first >> *ubuntu to require a P6-class processor; P5-class machines such as the >> Pentium MMX, AMD K6 series, Cyrix MII, etc. need not apply. >> >> What is the output of /proc/cpuinfo? >> >> Amanda > > I am in the lost process of building the kernel. But I know the CPU is AMD > Athlon 1000+, I can install Debian 5.0 just fine. > > I installed Xubuntu on my laptop in VMWare and I really like the simple > clean feel, so I thought it would be good to throw it on my old box that I > am using as a test server. > > Also I can boot off the (alternative) install CD I am using, drop into > console mode after I mount my / root filesystem. So if that kernel image > works for me, what the heck is going wrong? I can't figure this out. I've > tried google and nothing really helpful about > > Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on > unknown-block(0,0) It sounds like your grub line is wrong.. What does grub.cfg show? it sounds like the root entry is wrong. boot off of the live cd, mount your root partition (mount /boot if needed) run: grub-install --root-directory= /dev/sdX where X is the drive i.e. grub-install --root-directory=/mnt /dev/sda unmount the partition(s) and try to boot from the drive. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 7 02:55:11 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 22:55:11 -0400 Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CD6150F.8090804@ve3syb.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > It shipped with WIn7 home premium 64-bit. So they cannot blame the OS > (some support folk tried anyway). > Win7 says 4.0 G of RAM, 3.0 available. The shared video memory > accounts for 0.25G on top of that. So 0.75G is missing. Only 3 out of 4 is rather low. I have usually seen about 3.5G on a 4G machine that only supports 32-bit. The fact the machine came with a 64-bit OS has more to do with the internal operation of the CPU. It may have 64-bit internal registers but that doesn't tell you about its external hardware interface capabilities. This situation reminds me of the days of the 386DX vs. 386SX. They are both 32-bit processors but the SX used a 16-bit data bus with only 24-bits on the address bus. The two chips could still run the same 32-bit OS and programs. > | As for what Acer advertises, well it does have 4GB ram installed. > | The fact you can't use it all is a different issue. :) > > I would call it misleading. Just like in the days of the hard drive wars. You could buy a drive that states a capacity of 100GB on the box. You had to check the fine print to find out if that is the formatted or unformatted capacity of the drive. The average computer purchaser won't usually care about these things but for those of us who do, we have to remember to task the right questions to ensure we get what we want so there are no unexpected surprises later on. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 7 06:38:17 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 01:38:17 -0500 Subject: kernel panic after fresh install In-Reply-To: References: <4CD5844E.6090305@gmail.com> <1289087830.20994.1403961445@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4CD5F8ED.6010004@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CD64959.4000207@gmail.com> On 10-11-06 09:16 PM, Ijaaz A. Ullah wrote: > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 8:55 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> On 10-11-06 07:57 PM, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 12:37 -0400, "Rajinder Yadav" >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Guys I am having a problem after a fresh installed of Xubuntu 10.10 on >>>> my old server. I get a kernel panic, the 1st line of the message says: >>>> >>>> Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on >>>> unknown-block(0,0) >>>> >>>> Here is a copy of the boot info script output, can someone tell me how I >>>> might be able to get my system to bootup? I am able to boot into my >>>> system and mount my root / filesystem. >>> >>> This may be going out on a limb, but just how old is your server? In >>> particular, what kind of processor does it have? Maverick is the first >>> *ubuntu to require a P6-class processor; P5-class machines such as the >>> Pentium MMX, AMD K6 series, Cyrix MII, etc. need not apply. >>> >>> What is the output of /proc/cpuinfo? >>> >>> Amanda >> >> I am in the lost process of building the kernel. But I know the CPU is AMD >> Athlon 1000+, I can install Debian 5.0 just fine. >> >> I installed Xubuntu on my laptop in VMWare and I really like the simple >> clean feel, so I thought it would be good to throw it on my old box that I >> am using as a test server. >> >> Also I can boot off the (alternative) install CD I am using, drop into >> console mode after I mount my / root filesystem. So if that kernel image >> works for me, what the heck is going wrong? I can't figure this out. I've >> tried google and nothing really helpful about >> >> Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on >> unknown-block(0,0) > > It sounds like your grub line is wrong.. What does grub.cfg show? it > sounds like the root entry is wrong. > > boot off of the live cd, mount your root partition (mount /boot if needed) > run: > > grub-install --root-directory= /dev/sdX > > where X is the drive > > i.e. grub-install --root-directory=/mnt /dev/sda > > unmount the partition(s) and try to boot from the drive. I've tried that several times it doesn't fix the problem, even with a rebuilt kernel i am still seeing the problem. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 7 19:02:08 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 14:02:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: <20101105183113.GA4612-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101105183113.GA4612@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: | From: William Park | I don't know why *roff didn't take off. It could be that paragraphs are | difficult to read due all the markups (you know what I mean if you ever | read the manpage source), but you can say that for LaTeX or HTML also. It did take off in the UNIX world. In fact, it was the justification for UNIX in the early days: the first business application was preparing Bell copyright applications (beware: this is from my mouldy memory). The design was inhumane. And the author (Joe Osanna) died early. - the extension capabilities (macros) are quite awkward - names of things were one or two letters in a global per-kind namespace - it had no model of document structure SoftQuad's version of troff was better but it cost money. I assume groff is also better, but it came a bit late. Theoretically, Brian Reid's Script(TM) system was better. The markup told the system the document structure and formatting was the processor's job. I assume Script had style-sheets. Script was expensive and only available on large machines (DECSystem 10?). But it was much imitated. For example, LaTeX appears to be an imitation implemented in TeX macros. I used Perfect Writer, a Scribe knock-off that came bundled with my Kaypro II (a Z80 system with 64K of RAM). That product evolved into Borland's Sprint before it died. Speaking of TeX. It was done by a perfectionist to scratch his own itch. Better than troff in many ways but worse in others. The macro mechanism isn't quite good enough to make LaTeX's implementation look good. MS Word has some of the Script religion, but only if you look for it. It is swamped by WYSIWYG cruft. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 7 21:40:43 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 16:40:43 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian Message-ID: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> I gave up on xubuntu, I ended up installing Debian 5.0.6 server only. 1) However, i'm wondering is there an easy way for me to add the latest xfce desktop. I guess I will also need to add X window support. How can I do this easily. 2) Also I want to configure my Debian system so it always boot into console server, I don't want to start X. How can I do this? 3) I added the following source, are there other source I can add for package management that is worth noting? http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free Thanks, -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 7 22:01:25 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 17:01:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: kernel panic after fresh install In-Reply-To: <4CD5844E.6090305-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD5844E.6090305@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Rajinder Yadav | Guys I am having a problem after a fresh installed of Xubuntu 10.10 on my old | server. I get a kernel panic, the 1st line of the message says: | | Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0) I think this means that the kernel does not know where the root filesystem is. | =========================== sda1/boot/grub/grub.cfg: | =========================== | ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ### | menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 2.6.35-22-generic' --class ubuntu --class | gnu-linux --class gnu --class os { | recordfail | insmod part_msdos | insmod ext2 | set root='(hd0,msdos1)' | search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set | 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 | linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic | root=UUID=54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 ro quiet splash | initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic | } I assume that various lines are broken by your MUA and are fine on your disk. Do check. I wonder if this would work: linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic root=/dev/sda1 ro (I replaced UUID with a device name. I got rid of "quiet" and "splash" because that should put more about the boot process on the screen.) Also: you can experiment by typing commands to grub during booting. Well, maybe. The 10.10 grub won't listen to me on the one system I've tried it on. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 00:42:32 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 19:42:32 -0500 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 5:55 AM, Matt Price wrote: > Hi eveyone, > > I'm trying to do something that seems really simple to me but i still don't > know how to do.? I want to draw a timeline that represents the stages of a > research project (inception, research, presentation, writing, submission, > publication...)? and I would like it to look something like this: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > \???????????????????????????? \ > ?\???????????????????????????? \ > ? inception??????????????? research > > only I want it to be pretty, say with little circular nodes connecting the > digonal lines to the main horizontl lines, and with the text aligned > diagonally along the lines.? Shouldn't this be easy to do, either in > Openoffice (ick) or with another tool?? in fact shouldn't i be able to > generate this automatically from a set of terms, say, in a spreadsheet? > > and yet I haven't been able to do it.? I will resort to gimp if i have to > but for me that means hours of fiddling with the arcane interface... > > Thanks as always for your help! Hi Matt, I wish I had a canned solution for you. This is similar to what I imagine you want, and is built from a database on a web site, so I imagine that it would be simple[1] to build your time lines as needed. I was blown away by their results. http://78.46.81.38/misc/showroom.svg Sadly I don't have any details for you beyond the discussion by the participants in this list. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-transit/2010-February/000900.html [1]after the wee matter of learning the tools and adapting the data schema. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 02:13:39 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 21:13:39 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: <4CD71CDB.9010102-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101108021339.GA29476@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Nov 07, 2010 at 04:40:43PM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote > 1) However, i'm wondering is there an easy way for me to add the > latest xfce desktop. I guess I will also need to add X window > support. How can I do this easily. Have you tried "apt-get xfce"? > 2) Also I want to configure my Debian system so it always boot into > console server, I don't want to start X. How can I do this? I've never used any auto X startup script, so the following is based on theory, not practice. Execute "rc-update show". It should show xdm/kdm/gdm/whatever as one of the services that come up at either "boot" or "default". Remove that sevice, and it won't come up. I always start X manually with the "startx" command. My ~/.xinitrc file looks like so... #!/bin/bash /usr/bin/xterm -bg black -fg cyan -geometry 50x10+0+0 -fn -*-fixed-medium-*-*-*-*-200-*-*-*-*-iso8859-1 & /usr/bin/xterm -bg black -fg cyan -geometry +0+0 -fn -*-fixed-medium-*-*-*-*-200-*-*-*-*-iso8859-1 & xhost +192.168.123.249 exec /usr/bin/icewm > ~/.icewm.log 2>&1 In place of icewm, substitute your favourite window manager or desktop environment. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 02:11:57 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 21:11:57 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: <4CD71CDB.9010102-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I gave up on xubuntu, I ended up installing Debian 5.0.6 server only. > > 1) However, i'm wondering is there an easy way for me to add the latest xfce > desktop. I guess I will also need to add X window support. How can I do this > easily. su apt-get install xfce4 Lists of available Debian packages can be found in : www.debian.org/distrib/packages > 2) Also I want to configure my Debian system so it always boot into console > server, I don't want to start X. How can I do this? Here is an explanation : www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145082 > 3) I added the following source, are there other source I can add for > package management that is worth noting? > > http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free Sounds good to me. > Thanks, > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely > > GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic > Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 > Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 02:17:20 2010 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 21:17:20 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: <4CD71CDB.9010102-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101107211720.c8da2033.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sun, 07 Nov 2010 16:40:43 -0500 Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I gave up on xubuntu, I ended up installing Debian 5.0.6 server only. > > 1) However, i'm wondering is there an easy way for me to add the latest > xfce desktop. I guess I will also need to add X window support. How can > I do this easily. > > 2) Also I want to configure my Debian system so it always boot into > console server, I don't want to start X. How can I do this? Rajinder, Take a look at /etc/inittab. This shows your run levels on booting. Level_5 is X11. Level_3 is multiuser, which is, I think, what you want. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 02:39:15 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 21:39:15 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: <4CD71CDB.9010102-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: Make sure you don't have xdm, gdm, wdm, and such installed and X won't automatically start up. I think gdm is the usual default. And apt-get install xfce Should do that trick :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 02:56:20 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 21:56:20 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > Make sure you don't have xdm, gdm, wdm, and such installed and X won't > automatically start up.? I think gdm is the usual default. > > And > apt-get install xfce > Should do that trick :-) Nope, while there may have been a xfce package at one time, it is no more. In the current stable release ("Lenny") you want to be looking at package xfce4 which is described here: packages.debian.org/lenny/xfce4 Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 02:56:58 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 21:56:58 -0500 Subject: WD TV Live Plus HD Media Player Message-ID: <4CD766FA.2060404@utoronto.ca> I purchased a Western Digital TV Live Plus HD Media Player[1] a couple months ago with the intent of flashing it with a custom firmware since the code for the units is released under the GPL[2]. I successfully flashed mine over the weekend using the WDLXTV-Live firmware, which is described as "a souped up unofficial firmware for the Western Digital WD TV Live. It is based off of the 1.02.21 firmware, but with many extra features. This is a permanent flash, just like an official upgrade. It enables a wide range of extra functionality which is missing from the official firmware, such as bittorrent, webserver, NZB, SSH, FTP, NFS, etc[3]". The custom firmware even ships with /proc/config.gz, which is a nice touch for being able to see how to compile a new kernel for the unit. The flashing process is dead easy, just extract the firmware to a USB stick, plug it into the unit, and power the unit on. The player then prompts for an upgrade, then a reboot, and then it is all ready to go. I highly recommend picking one up, because they are quite useful, and because Western Digital has done a good thing (imo) in using Linux on these units, and adhering to the GPL. Some basic specs: # uname -a Linux WDTVLIVE 2.6.22.19-19-4 #28 PREEMPT Mon Mar 22 20:08:14 CST 2010 mips GNU/Linux # cat /proc/cpuinfo system type : Sigma Designs TangoX processor : 0 cpu model : MIPS 24K V7.12 FPU V0.0 Initial BogoMIPS : 332.59 wait instruction : yes microsecond timers : yes tlb_entries : 32 extra interrupt vector : yes hardware watchpoint : yes ASEs implemented : mips16 shadow register sets : 1 VCED exceptions : not available VCEI exceptions : not available System bus frequency : 333000000 Hz CPU frequency : 499500000 Hz DSP frequency : 333000000 Hz # lsusb -vs 001:001 Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 Device Descriptor: bLength 18 bDescriptorType 1 bcdUSB 2.00 bDeviceClass 9 Hub bDeviceSubClass 0 Unused bDeviceProtocol 1 Single TT bMaxPacketSize0 64 idVendor 0x0000 idProduct 0x0000 bcdDevice 2.06 iManufacturer 3 Linux 2.6.22.19-19-4 tangox-ehci-hcd iProduct 2 TangoX USB 2.0 iSerial 1 tangox-ehci-hcd # ls /sys/module/ 8250 em8xxx keyboard mac80211 psmouse sr_mod tangox_ohci_hcd usbcore atkbd fctrl libata mousedev rcupdate sunrpc tcp_cubic usbhid cdrom hid llad ohci_hcd scsi_mod tango3dog ufsd vt cifs ide_cd lockd printk sg tangox_ehci_hcd uhci_hcd wd_led_rst ehci_hcd irkernel loop proc_pipe sigmablock tangox_enet usb_storage [1]http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=735 [2]The GPL code is available here: http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=1006&sid=129&lang=en [3]http://b-rad.cc/wdlxtv-live/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 03:21:01 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 22:21:01 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CD76C9D.6050408@gmail.com> On 10-11-07 09:11 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> I gave up on xubuntu, I ended up installing Debian 5.0.6 server only. >> >> 1) However, i'm wondering is there an easy way for me to add the latest xfce >> desktop. I guess I will also need to add X window support. How can I do this >> easily. > > su > apt-get install xfce4 > > Lists of available Debian packages can be found in : > www.debian.org/distrib/packages > >> 2) Also I want to configure my Debian system so it always boot into console >> server, I don't want to start X. How can I do this? > > Here is an explanation : www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145082 > >> 3) I added the following source, are there other source I can add for >> package management that is worth noting? >> >> http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free > > Sounds good to me. > >> Thanks, >> Thanks all, got more confidence to force ahead! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 05:58:39 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 00:58:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: WD TV Live Plus HD Media Player In-Reply-To: <4CD766FA.2060404-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD766FA.2060404@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: | From: Jamon Camisso Thanks for the posting. I bought one of these a while back to use as a front end for myth and to hack. But I've done neither :-( The WD sees my Myth server (via UPnP). It sees the recorded files. It will not play them because it doesn't recognize the format. Really? MPEG-2 would seem easy. But the diagnostic says nothing useful and neither does the manual. As for hacking: it's never gotten to the top of my stack of projects. Have you built firmware from source? Is that possible? I wonder if it is possible to diagnose the Myth problem by instrumenting the code. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 06:05:29 2010 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 01:05:29 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: <4CD71CDB.9010102-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > 3) I added the following source, are there other source I can add for > package management that is worth noting? > > http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free For extra multimedia stuff you might want to add Marillat's multimedia pkg archive: 1/ Download and install archive encryption key for debian-multimedia packages ... wget -c http://www.debian-multimedia.org/pool/main/d/debian-multimedia-keyring/debian-multimedia-keyring_2008.10.16_all.deb sudo dpkg -i debian-multimedia-keyring_2008.10.16_all.deb 2/ Edit /etc/apt/sources.list by adding a new package repository: deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ lenny main non-free 3/ Save the changes and update/upgrade the list of packages: aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade -- (\__/) -- Daniel (=.= ) -- http://circuidipity.com (")_(") -- http://twitter.com/dwatronic -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 16:08:19 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 11:08:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: <4CD71CDB.9010102-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Nov 2010, Rajinder Yadav wrote: The other items have been covered nicely. > http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free Here is the list of repos I normally use: # Stable, from Canada deb http://ftp3.nrc.ca/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free # Security deb http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main contrib non-free # Volatile - used for data that changes rapidly like virus signature files deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile lenny/volatile main # Debian Multimedia for desktop systems deb http://debian.dc-uoit.net/debian-multimedia/ lenny main contrib non-free # VirtualBox deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian lenny non-free # Backports deb http://www.backports.org/debian lenny-backports main contrib non-free Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Contributing member of Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 18:25:20 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 13:25:20 -0500 Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101105182929.GI12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101105210045.GJ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101108182520.GK12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 06, 2010 at 03:18:07PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > "It" == ION? The Atom 330. I have seen references to 16GB for the Ion, but only if the CPU supports it. > Where did you get that information? I have not found it with a few > minutes of googling. > > My (possibly misinformed) understanding is that the physical addresses > go across the Front-Side Bus "in the raw". So remapping would be the > job of the ION chipset. After all, memory and most other things that > can be addressed are attached via the chipset (perhaps some CPU > resources can be addressed without going across the FSB). They go in the raw, but if your CPU only supports 4GB of addressing, and the PCI bus and BIOS and other devices have to be in that 4GB, then that's all you get. > The remapping would be set up by the BIOS. But it would be pointless: > anything above 4G could not be addressed by the brain-damaged Atom > 330. Right. Now the ION doesn't do remapping at all. So even if the atom could access more than 4GB, you would still loose some ram between 3 and 4GB, even if you had more ram above 4GB that the cpu could address. > Why do I say brain damaged? Because it supports the Intel FSB spec > except for the missing (undriven) address bits. The pins are there > but are not driven. This same FSB is used by Atom, Core, etc. so the > same chipsets work with it (some newer Atoms use CMOS instead of GTL+ > signalling on the FSB). Yeah very common for intel. > Of course 64-bit Atoms have wide virtual address support. Otherwise > 64-bit operating systems would not work. AMD64 currently limits > virtual addresses to 48 bits and I guess that Intel 64 is the same. I think early intel em64t were 40 bit but I think they are 48 now. > All that the Atom can be missing is drivers for the top bits for > physical addresses (and the very few upstream logic blocks associated > only with them). This smells like intentional crippling. Very likely. > I'm sure that at least some newer Atoms can address more memory: I > have an Atom D510 system that does this. It does not have an ION > chipset. Certainly some of the newer ones are likely to be able to. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 18:26:21 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 13:26:21 -0500 Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: <4CD6150F.8090804-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CD6150F.8090804@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20101108182621.GL12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 06, 2010 at 10:55:11PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Just like in the days of the hard drive wars. You could buy a drive that > states a capacity of 100GB on the box. You had to check the fine print to > find out if that is the formatted or unformatted capacity of the drive. Wrong. You have to check the fine print for how they define GB. There is no such thing as formatted versus unformatted capacity. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 18:31:41 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 13:31:41 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: <4CD71CDB.9010102-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101108183141.GM12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 07, 2010 at 04:40:43PM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I gave up on xubuntu, I ended up installing Debian 5.0.6 server only. > > 1) However, i'm wondering is there an easy way for me to add the latest > xfce desktop. I guess I will also need to add X window support. How can > I do this easily. If backports.debian.org has it, then you can use that. Otherwise, you probably don't want to. > 2) Also I want to configure my Debian system so it always boot into > console server, I don't want to start X. How can I do this? Don't install xdm/gdm/kdm/wdm. Then just use startx when you want X. > 3) I added the following source, are there other source I can add for > package management that is worth noting? > > http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free Well there is debian-multimedia.org -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 18:39:10 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 13:39:10 -0500 Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: <20101108182621.GL12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CD6150F.8090804@ve3syb.ca> <20101108182621.GL12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Nov 06, 2010 at 10:55:11PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: >> Just like in the days of the hard drive wars. You could buy a drive that >> states a capacity of 100GB on the box. You had to check the fine print to >> find out if that is the formatted or unformatted capacity of the drive. > > Wrong. ?You have to check the fine print for how they define GB. > There is no such thing as formatted versus unformatted capacity. The thing I got bit on, some years ago, was the problem of applications defining disk requirements in terms of GB = 1024x1024x1024, when the others involved (e.g. - those selling disk space) chose to define them in terms of 1000x1000x1000. Every time we increase to another level (e.g. - K --> MB --> GB --> TB), we wind up losing another 2.4% to the measurement difference. With TB, there's very nearly a 10% difference between "binary measurements" and "decimal measurements." That is, to the vendors, 1TB = 1000000000000 bytes. But to many of the rest of us, 1TB = 1099511627776 bytes, which differs by 90GB. The one time I built an SAP server, the 7.5% difference at the GB level bit me, because the machine was spec'ed in decimal, whereas requirements were expressed in "binary" (ala 1024^3), and I didn't have enough disk space :-(. It taught me to make sure this sort of thing was described with better specificity! -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 18:50:18 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 13:50:18 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: <20101107211720.c8da2033.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> <20101107211720.c8da2033.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20101108185018.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 07, 2010 at 09:17:20PM -0500, Howard Gibson wrote: > Rajinder, > > Take a look at /etc/inittab. This shows your run levels on booting. Level_5 is X11. Level_3 is multiuser, which is, I think, what you want. Only if you live in redhat/suse world. Real distributions let the admin decide what their runlevels mean. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 18:51:43 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 13:51:43 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101108185143.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 08, 2010 at 11:08:19AM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 7 Nov 2010, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > The other items have been covered nicely. > >> http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free > > Here is the list of repos I normally use: > > # Stable, from Canada > deb http://ftp3.nrc.ca/debian/ lenny main contrib non-free > > # Security > deb http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main contrib non-free > > # Volatile - used for data that changes rapidly like virus signature files > deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile lenny/volatile main > > # Debian Multimedia for desktop systems > deb http://debian.dc-uoit.net/debian-multimedia/ lenny main contrib non-free > > # VirtualBox > deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian lenny non-free > > # Backports > deb http://www.backports.org/debian lenny-backports main contrib non-free That one should now be backports.debian.org instead. It has become official. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 19:04:35 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 14:04:35 -0500 Subject: kernel panic after fresh install In-Reply-To: <4CD5844E.6090305-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD5844E.6090305@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101108190435.GP12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 06, 2010 at 12:37:34PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Guys I am having a problem after a fresh installed of Xubuntu 10.10 on > my old server. I get a kernel panic, the 1st line of the message says: > > Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on > unknown-block(0,0) > > Here is a copy of the boot info script output, can someone tell me how I > might be able to get my system to bootup? I am able to boot into my > system and mount my root / filesystem. > > > Boot Info Script 0.55 dated February 15th, 2010 > > > ============================= Boot Info Summary: > ============================== > > => Grub 2 is installed in the MBR of /dev/sda and looks on the same > drive in > partition #1 for (,msdos1)/boot/grub. There is no drive number. That's not valid. (hd0,msdos1) would be correct. I saw a machine recently get completely confused and fail to boot because a compact flash card was in a USB card reader and the BIOS declared that hd0. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 19:18:09 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 14:18:09 -0500 Subject: WD TV Live Plus HD Media Player In-Reply-To: References: <4CD766FA.2060404@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20101108191807.GD2710@phaedrus.isageek.ca> On Mon, Nov 08, 2010 at 12:58:39AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Jamon Camisso > > Thanks for the posting. > > I bought one of these a while back to use as a front end for myth and > to hack. But I've done neither :-( > > The WD sees my Myth server (via UPnP). It sees the recorded files. > It will not play them because it doesn't recognize the format. > Really? MPEG-2 would seem easy. But the diagnostic says nothing > useful and neither does the manual. > > As for hacking: it's never gotten to the top of my stack of projects. > > Have you built firmware from source? Is that possible? I have not tried yet, but there is a VMware image floating around: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/wdtvtools/wiki I am not sure if building a new kernel is feasible, it sounds like Western Digital *might* be signing kernel images. However, building modules will work according to that page. Apart from that, one feature I want to experiment with is ext3 boot, which will allow for easy installing/editing of firmwares, without having to do a complete reflash cycle for every change. Lots more info available on official and unofficial firmware on the forum at http://www.wdtvforum.com/main Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 19:24:19 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 14:24:19 -0500 Subject: Solaris + Switches + VLANs = wtf? Message-ID: Hey guys! I am attempting to put a solaris box that is currently on 2 subnets using two interfaces and one switch onto a third subnet using a second switch and a second nic. However, I cannot for the life of me bring it online in the third subnet. i have the first nic (two interfaces: e1000g0 and e1000g1) online in two subnets; 192.168.XX5.13 and 192.168.XX6.13, netmask 255.255.255.0. This is plugged into an HP switch with the appropriate vlans assigned to the ports on the switch where the ethernet is plugged in. i have the second nic (bnx0) plugged into the second switch, the appropriate vlan set, and the ip statically set to 172.XX.237.21 with a netmask of 255.255.254.0 Here is the routing table from another box with a similar arrangement that works that i would like to emulate: Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 192.168.X15.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 172.XX.236.0 * 255.255.254.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 172.XX.0.0 172.XX.236.1 255.255.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth1 169.254.0.0 * 255.255.0.0 U 0 0 0 eth1 default woot.local 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 Here is the routing table from the solaris box i am having trouble with: IRE Table: IPv4 Destination Mask Gateway Device Mxfrg Rtt Ref Flg Out In/Fwd -------------------- --------------- -------------------- ------ ----- ----- --- --- ----- ------ default 0.0.0.0 192.168.X15.1 1500* 0 1 UG 5 0 172.XX.236.0 255.255.254.0 172.XX.236.21 bnx0 1500* 0 1 U 0 0 192.168.X15.0 255.255.255.0 192.168.X15.13 e1000g0 1500* 0 1 U 28 0 192.168.X16.0 255.255.255.0 192.168.X16.13 e1000g1 1500* 0 1 U 28 0 224.0.0.0 240.0.0.0 192.168.X15.13 e1000g0 1500* 0 1 U 0 0 127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 127.0.0.1 lo0 8232* 0 5 UH 118 0 Any networking gurus that can weigh in on this one? Please? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 19:49:20 2010 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (aaron d) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 14:49:20 -0500 Subject: Solaris + Switches + VLANs = wtf? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The gateway is himself (if I read you correctly)?? On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Timothy Hildred wrote: i have the second nic (bnx0) plugged into the second switch, the appropriate > vlan set, and the ip statically set to 172.XX.237.21 with a netmask of > 255.255.254.0 > > ... > Destination Mask Gateway Device Mxfrg > Rtt Ref Flg Out In/Fwd > -------------------- --------------- -------------------- ------ ----- > ----- --- --- ----- ------ > 172.XX.236.0 255.255.254.0 172.XX.236.21 bnx0 1500* > 0 1 U 0 0 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 19:50:30 2010 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (aaron d) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 14:50:30 -0500 Subject: Solaris + Switches + VLANs = wtf? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry I just realized my eyes are bad :P Let me look again at your first post. On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 2:49 PM, aaron d wrote: > The gateway is himself (if I read you correctly)?? > > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Timothy Hildred wrote: > > i have the second nic (bnx0) plugged into the second switch, the >> appropriate vlan set, and the ip statically set to 172.XX.237.21 with a >> netmask of 255.255.254.0 >> >> > ... > > >> Destination Mask Gateway Device Mxfrg >> Rtt Ref Flg Out In/Fwd >> -------------------- --------------- -------------------- ------ ----- >> ----- --- --- ----- ------ >> 172.XX.236.0 255.255.254.0 172.XX.236.21 bnx0 1500* >> 0 1 U 0 0 >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 19:57:52 2010 From: andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 14:57:52 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? Message-ID: I'm running Android 2.1 on an Rogers HTC Magic I just got from a friend. I've got the 6GB data plan from Rogers. I want to tether to my Debian Squeeze laptop and also to my Nokia N800. I know I can get native tethering my installing the latestest CyangenMod (based on Android 2.2 which includes it) if this is not risky or I'd get an app from the Marketplace if someone here can suggest one. I'm new to Android and don't want to get into a major project if I can help it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 19:58:23 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 14:58:23 -0500 Subject: Solaris + Switches + VLANs = wtf? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: thanks for looking at all, i am banging my head against a wall. On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 2:50 PM, aaron d wrote: > Sorry I just realized my eyes are bad :P > > Let me look again at your first post. > > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 2:49 PM, aaron d wrote: > >> The gateway is himself (if I read you correctly)?? >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Timothy Hildred wrote: >> >> i have the second nic (bnx0) plugged into the second switch, the >>> appropriate vlan set, and the ip statically set to 172.XX.237.21 with a >>> netmask of 255.255.254.0 >>> >>> >> ... >> >> >>> Destination Mask Gateway Device Mxfrg >>> Rtt Ref Flg Out In/Fwd >>> -------------------- --------------- -------------------- ------ ----- >>> ----- --- --- ----- ------ >>> 172.XX.236.0 255.255.254.0 172.XX.236.21 bnx0 >>> 1500* 0 1 U 0 0 >>> >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 20:10:36 2010 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (aaron d) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:10:36 -0500 Subject: Solaris + Switches + VLANs = wtf? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No worries. Im not a network guru, tbh. But that gateway still bugs me: 172.XX.236.0 255.255.254.0 172.XX.236.21 bnx0 1500* 0 1 U 0 0 If you are ON that subnet directly with an interface, what do you need a gateway (on that subnet FOR that subnet) for? Can you ping 172.XX.236.21? What exactly is the problem, you cant access ANY resources on that subnet? Can you post the interface config? thanks, aaron On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Timothy Hildred wrote: > thanks for looking at all, i am banging my head against a wall. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 20:18:37 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:18:37 -0500 Subject: Solaris + Switches + VLANs = wtf? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > If you are ON that subnet directly with an interface, what do you need a gateway (on that subnet FOR that subnet) for? I am only ON that subnet in theory; i set a static IP on that subnet. >Can you ping 172.XX.236.21? What exactly is the problem, you cant access ANY resources on that subnet? I cannot ping .21 from any other boxes on the 172 subnet, nor can i access any resources on the 172 subnet from the solaris box that i have statically assigned .21 on that 172 subnet >Can you post the interface config? sure: bash-3.00# ifconfig -a lo0: flags=2001000849 mtu 8232 index 1 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask ff000000 bnx0: flags=1000803 mtu 1500 index 2 inet 172.XX.236.21 netmask fffffe00 broadcast 172.XX.237.255 ether 0:1c:c4:6a:bb:10 e1000g0: flags=1000843 mtu 1500 index 3 inet 192.168.X15.13 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 192.168.X15.255 ether 0:1b:78:5d:c9:1e e1000g1: flags=1000843 mtu 1500 index 4 inet 192.168.X16.13 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 192.168.X16.255 ether 0:1b:78:5d:c9:1f One thing that is obvious here is that the RUNNING flag is not set on the interface in question. I don't know if thats because it has been incorrectly configured, or because it has not connection. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 20:28:28 2010 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (aaron d) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:28:28 -0500 Subject: Solaris + Switches + VLANs = wtf? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, now I am thoroughly confused. You stated in the first post that the IP of this box, on the 172.xx.236.0/23, was 172.xx.237.21, not 236.21 (note that 6 != 7) So your "gateway" is wrong for that subnet: >> 172.XX.236.0 255.255.254.0 172.XX.236.21 bnx0 1500* 0 1 U 0 0 The gateway (third column) is the IP of that very HOST, on the aforementioned subnet. bnx0: flags=1000803 mtu 1500 index 2 > inet 172.XX.236.21 netmask fffffe00 broadcast 172.XX.237.255 > ether 0:1c:c4:6a:bb:10 > This is wrong. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 20:33:25 2010 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (aaron d) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:33:25 -0500 Subject: Solaris + Switches + VLANs = wtf? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually, again looking closer, I see I could be mistaken here. that "gateway" being to local interfaces IP is actually just saying ("Im directly connected to this subnet via infterface blah"). This is the same as the '*' in linux routing tables for the gateway, I assume. I've never really looked at solaris routing tables, so I apologize. That being said, it all looks good. Perhaps some issues with the switch port/vlans? aaron On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:28 PM, aaron d wrote: > OK, now I am thoroughly confused. > > You stated in the first post that the IP of this box, on the > 172.xx.236.0/23, was 172.xx.237.21, not 236.21 (note that 6 != 7) > > So your "gateway" is wrong for that subnet: > > >> 172.XX.236.0 255.255.254.0 172.XX.236.21 bnx0 1500* > 0 1 U 0 0 > > The gateway (third column) is the IP of that very HOST, on the > aforementioned subnet. > > bnx0: flags=1000803 mtu 1500 index 2 >> inet 172.XX.236.21 netmask fffffe00 broadcast 172.XX.237.255 >> ether 0:1c:c4:6a:bb:10 >> > > This is wrong. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 20:36:09 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:36:09 -0500 Subject: Solaris + Switches + VLANs = wtf? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: aaron, i am an idiot, i just realized my mistake, sorry for wasting your time! it was a simple diagram issue. On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:28 PM, aaron d wrote: > OK, now I am thoroughly confused. > > You stated in the first post that the IP of this box, on the > 172.xx.236.0/23, was 172.xx.237.21, not 236.21 (note that 6 != 7) > > So your "gateway" is wrong for that subnet: > > >> 172.XX.236.0 255.255.254.0 172.XX.236.21 bnx0 1500* > 0 1 U 0 0 > > The gateway (third column) is the IP of that very HOST, on the > aforementioned subnet. > > bnx0: flags=1000803 mtu 1500 index 2 >> inet 172.XX.236.21 netmask fffffe00 broadcast 172.XX.237.255 >> ether 0:1c:c4:6a:bb:10 >> > > This is wrong. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 20:38:08 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:38:08 -0500 Subject: Solaris + Switches + VLANs = wtf? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101108203808.GQ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 08, 2010 at 03:18:37PM -0500, Timothy Hildred wrote: > > If you are ON that subnet directly with an interface, what do you need a > gateway (on that subnet FOR that subnet) for? > > I am only ON that subnet in theory; i set a static IP on that subnet. > > >Can you ping 172.XX.236.21? What exactly is the problem, you cant access > ANY resources on that subnet? > > I cannot ping .21 from any other boxes on the 172 subnet, nor can i access > any resources on the 172 subnet from the solaris box that i have statically > assigned .21 on that 172 subnet > > >Can you post the interface config? > > sure: > bash-3.00# ifconfig -a > lo0: flags=2001000849 mtu 8232 > index 1 > inet 127.0.0.1 netmask ff000000 > bnx0: flags=1000803 mtu 1500 index 2 > inet 172.XX.236.21 netmask fffffe00 broadcast 172.XX.237.255 > ether 0:1c:c4:6a:bb:10 > e1000g0: flags=1000843 mtu 1500 index 3 > inet 192.168.X15.13 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 192.168.X15.255 > ether 0:1b:78:5d:c9:1e > e1000g1: flags=1000843 mtu 1500 index 4 > inet 192.168.X16.13 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 192.168.X16.255 > ether 0:1b:78:5d:c9:1f > > One thing that is obvious here is that the RUNNING flag is not set on the > interface in question. I don't know if thats because it has been incorrectly > configured, or because it has not connection. It normally means no link. Does the card even have a link light on? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 20:39:20 2010 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:39:20 -0500 Subject: Solaris + Switches + VLANs = wtf? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd suggest hooking a different box up to that port with the basic routing information to operate only on that VLAN and make certain that it can communicate properly. That will help to narrow down the scope of the issue by removing the switch/VLAN config from the problem. -jason On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:33 PM, aaron d wrote: > Actually, again looking closer, I see I could be mistaken here. that > "gateway" being to local interfaces IP is actually just saying ("Im directly > connected to this subnet via infterface blah"). This is the same as the '*' > in linux routing tables for the gateway, I assume. > I've never really looked at solaris routing tables, so I apologize. > > That being said, it all looks good. Perhaps some issues with the switch > port/vlans? > > aaron > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:28 PM, aaron d wrote: > >> OK, now I am thoroughly confused. >> >> You stated in the first post that the IP of this box, on the >> 172.xx.236.0/23, was 172.xx.237.21, not 236.21 (note that 6 != 7) >> >> So your "gateway" is wrong for that subnet: >> >> >> 172.XX.236.0 255.255.254.0 172.XX.236.21 bnx0 1500* >> 0 1 U 0 0 >> >> The gateway (third column) is the IP of that very HOST, on the >> aforementioned subnet. >> >> bnx0: flags=1000803 mtu 1500 index 2 >>> inet 172.XX.236.21 netmask fffffe00 broadcast 172.XX.237.255 >>> ether 0:1c:c4:6a:bb:10 >>> >> >> This is wrong. >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 20:45:27 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:45:27 -0500 Subject: Solaris + Switches + VLANs = wtf? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I figured it out, the actual problem is to embarassing to mention here. thanks to everyone who looked! On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Jason Shaw wrote: > I'd suggest hooking a different box up to that port with the basic routing > information to operate only on that VLAN and make certain that it can > communicate properly. That will help to narrow down the scope of the issue > by removing the switch/VLAN config from the problem. > > -jason > > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:33 PM, aaron d wrote: > >> Actually, again looking closer, I see I could be mistaken here. that >> "gateway" being to local interfaces IP is actually just saying ("Im directly >> connected to this subnet via infterface blah"). This is the same as the '*' >> in linux routing tables for the gateway, I assume. >> I've never really looked at solaris routing tables, so I apologize. >> >> That being said, it all looks good. Perhaps some issues with the switch >> port/vlans? >> >> aaron >> >> On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:28 PM, aaron d wrote: >> >>> OK, now I am thoroughly confused. >>> >>> You stated in the first post that the IP of this box, on the >>> 172.xx.236.0/23, was 172.xx.237.21, not 236.21 (note that 6 != 7) >>> >>> So your "gateway" is wrong for that subnet: >>> >>> >> 172.XX.236.0 255.255.254.0 172.XX.236.21 bnx0 >>> 1500* 0 1 U 0 0 >>> >>> The gateway (third column) is the IP of that very HOST, on the >>> aforementioned subnet. >>> >>> bnx0: flags=1000803 mtu 1500 index 2 >>>> inet 172.XX.236.21 netmask fffffe00 broadcast 172.XX.237.255 >>>> ether 0:1c:c4:6a:bb:10 >>>> >>> >>> This is wrong. >>> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 20:45:53 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:45:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: <20101108182621.GL12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CD6150F.8090804@ve3syb.ca> <20101108182621.GL12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | There is no such thing as formatted versus unformatted capacity. There used to be, in the days of MFM. Most recent manifestation: floppy disks. Perhaps this comes up when the controller is sold separately from the medium. Since hard disks have been sold with integrated SCSI or IDE controllers, this problem has not appeared. Of course "formatted" has a couple of meanings. For most users, the filesystem overhead could be called the difference between formatted and unformatted capactity. I would not do so. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 8 21:14:17 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 16:14:17 -0500 Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CD6150F.8090804@ve3syb.ca> <20101108182621.GL12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101108211417.GR12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 08, 2010 at 03:45:53PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | There is no such thing as formatted versus unformatted capacity. > > There used to be, in the days of MFM. Most recent manifestation: > floppy disks. True, but it has nothing to do with modern hard sectored hard disks. Yet some people keep using that excuse to explain a simple difference in units. > Perhaps this comes up when the controller is sold separately from the > medium. Since hard disks have been sold with integrated SCSI or IDE > controllers, this problem has not appeared. > > Of course "formatted" has a couple of meanings. For most users, the > filesystem overhead could be called the difference between formatted > and unformatted capactity. I would not do so. Back when you bought 2MB floppies and got a formatted capacity of 1440KB (unless you just a non standard formatting), then there was such a thing. It did not apply to harddisks other than a few odd ones early on. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 00:20:28 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 19:20:28 -0500 Subject: problems with teksavvy Message-ID: Hello Everyone, I've been having alot of problems with teksavvy. I've had 0.35 MBit downloads for about a month and they haven't given me an ETA. Everytime I call they give me the run around and blame rogers dupont POI. They do not have any alternatives for me using the internet that being said, I'm thinking of getting the Wind Mobile Stick, does this work with linux? http://shop.windmobile.ca/ProductCatalog/Handsets/DatastickDetails.aspx?id=Huawei+E181+Data+Stick&color=orange I'm thinking of hooking that up to my linux desktop. Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 00:23:23 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 19:23:23 -0500 Subject: problems with teksavvy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I found this link: http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1652171-Huawei-e181-Data-Stick-on-Ubuntu Does anyone use it on tlug? On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I've been having alot of problems with teksavvy. I've had 0.35 MBit > downloads for about a month and they haven't given me an ETA. Everytime I > call they give me the run around and blame rogers dupont POI. They do not > have any alternatives for me using the internet that being said, > > I'm thinking of getting the Wind Mobile Stick, does this work with linux? > > > http://shop.windmobile.ca/ProductCatalog/Handsets/DatastickDetails.aspx?id=Huawei+E181+Data+Stick&color=orange > > I'm thinking of hooking that up to my linux desktop. > > > Dave Germiquet > > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 00:34:08 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 19:34:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: <20101108211417.GR12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CD6150F.8090804@ve3syb.ca> <20101108182621.GL12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101108211417.GR12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Mon, Nov 08, 2010 at 03:45:53PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > | From: Lennart Sorensen | > | > | There is no such thing as formatted versus unformatted capacity. | > | > There used to be, in the days of MFM. Most recent manifestation: | > floppy disks. | | True, but it has nothing to do with modern hard sectored hard disks. Customers don't know or need to know if "modern" hard drives are hard sectored. My guess is that they are not. This is not something exposed on the interface. Before IDE, it was exposed on the interface between the controller and the drive (note: I don't mean host adaptor). As far as I remember, no consumer hard drives were hard sectored. Some but not all early floppy drives were hard sectored -- mostly for CP/M machines. That was one reason that disks were not interchangeable between all CP/M systems. | Back when you bought 2MB floppies and got a formatted capacity of 1440KB | (unless you just a non standard formatting), then there was such a thing. | It did not apply to harddisks other than a few odd ones early on. Essentially all disks before IDE had this characteristic. I don't remember which came first: IDE or SCSI controllers integrated with the drive but it was close in time. IBM Mainframe drives let different files have different blocksizes! Each track was like a short length of tape. The idea was that a programmer could trade RAM for storage density. Dumb. Especially since different models had tracks with different capacity. I remember that 7200 bytes was a good block size for a model 2314 drive (one per track). This feature might have disappeared in the 30+ years since I used those machines (but the Z series lives on). I still have a few hard drives that predate IDE: for my Sun 3/60 (ESDI), for Atari STs (RLL), and for my Nabu 1600 (MFM). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 00:48:02 2010 From: mdhillca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 19:48:02 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > I'm running Android 2.1 on an Rogers HTC Magic I just got from a > friend. ?I've got the 6GB data plan from Rogers. ?I want to tether to > my Debian Squeeze laptop and also to my Nokia N800. > > I know I can get native tethering my installing the latestest > CyangenMod (based on Android 2.2 which includes it) if this is not > risky or I'd get an app from the Marketplace if someone here can > suggest one. ? I'm new to Android and don't want to get into a major > project if I can help it. I'm running CyanogenMod on my Telus HTC Desire... the installation was pretty straightforward once I followed the right instructions, and when I initially followed the *wrong* instructions (AMOLED driver when SLCD was required), recovering from the non-working installation was trivial. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 00:49:53 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 19:49:53 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm running CyanogenMod 6.1 RC 1 and its working great. FM Radio works...its really fantastic..no problems so far. It was pretty easy to install as well. On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 7:48 PM, Michael Hill wrote: > On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Andrew Malcolmson > wrote: > > > I'm running Android 2.1 on an Rogers HTC Magic I just got from a > > friend. I've got the 6GB data plan from Rogers. I want to tether to > > my Debian Squeeze laptop and also to my Nokia N800. > > > > I know I can get native tethering my installing the latestest > > CyangenMod (based on Android 2.2 which includes it) if this is not > > risky or I'd get an app from the Marketplace if someone here can > > suggest one. I'm new to Android and don't want to get into a major > > project if I can help it. > > I'm running CyanogenMod on my Telus HTC Desire... the installation was > pretty straightforward once I followed the right instructions, and > when I initially followed the *wrong* instructions (AMOLED driver when > SLCD was required), recovering from the non-working installation was > trivial. > > Mike > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 01:19:23 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 20:19:23 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CD8A19B.7060307@gmail.com> On 10-11-08 01:05 AM, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: > On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> 3) I added the following source, are there other source I can add for >> package management that is worth noting? >> >> http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free > > For extra multimedia stuff you might want to add Marillat's multimedia > pkg archive: > > 1/ Download and install archive encryption key for debian-multimedia > packages ... > > wget -c http://www.debian-multimedia.org/pool/main/d/debian-multimedia-keyring/debian-multimedia-keyring_2008.10.16_all.deb > sudo dpkg -i debian-multimedia-keyring_2008.10.16_all.deb > > 2/ Edit /etc/apt/sources.list by adding a new package repository: > > deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ lenny main non-free > > 3/ Save the changes and update/upgrade the list of packages: > > aptitude update&& aptitude full-upgrade > Daniel thanks for the multimedia tip. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 01:40:10 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 20:40:10 -0500 Subject: problems with teksavvy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101109014010.GC18815@watson-wilon.ca> I have the 181 stick and use it on Wind. Wind service is very spotty. Make sure you have coverage in your area. There are many dead spots. If you use it one place it seems reliable. Moving from place to place, e.g. Go train is much worse. It does work on Linux. I've heard that the Rogers Teksavvy relationship is tough. It is my understand that Rogers was ordered to lease lines to third parties and now do so in a work to rule spirit. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 01:49:37 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 20:49:37 -0500 Subject: problems with teksavvy In-Reply-To: <20101109014010.GC18815-8agRmHhQ+n0LFV1hc+Bozg@public.gmane.org> References: <20101109014010.GC18815@watson-wilon.ca> Message-ID: Ya, TekSavvy offers great rates. Rogers is frustrating :( Hope they fix it soon. Its driving me nuts having this, with no end in site. I'll try Wind as a temporary fix. Thanks for letting me know that the usb stick works. :) On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > I have the 181 stick and use it on Wind. Wind service is very spotty. > Make sure you have coverage in your area. There are many dead spots. > If you use it one place it seems reliable. Moving from place to place, > e.g. Go train is much worse. It does work on Linux. > > I've heard that the Rogers Teksavvy relationship is tough. It is my > understand that Rogers was ordered to lease lines to third parties and > now do so in a work to rule spirit. > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 01:50:01 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 20:50:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: problems with teksavvy In-Reply-To: <20101109014010.GC18815-8agRmHhQ+n0LFV1hc+Bozg@public.gmane.org> References: <20101109014010.GC18815@watson-wilon.ca> Message-ID: | From: Neil Watson | I've heard that the Rogers Teksavvy relationship is tough. It is my | understand that Rogers was ordered to lease lines to third parties and | now do so in a work to rule spirit. They were ordered to do that by the CRTC something like 10 years ago. Obviously they jumped at the chance. (3web actually got to resell Rogers stuff some years ago; I take it that this was not really a 3rd party arrangement.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 02:08:39 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 21:08:39 -0500 Subject: problems with teksavvy In-Reply-To: References: <20101109014010.GC18815@watson-wilon.ca> Message-ID: I feel bad though for TekSavvy, because everyone who is on the DUPONT poi is practically screwed until rogers fixes it. The main issue is that because its not there technology there at rogers mercy. So there are many people having this problem, and are at dialup/low end speeds until its resolved. On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 8:50 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Neil Watson > > | I've heard that the Rogers Teksavvy relationship is tough. It is my > | understand that Rogers was ordered to lease lines to third parties and > | now do so in a work to rule spirit. > > They were ordered to do that by the CRTC something like 10 years ago. > Obviously they jumped at the chance. (3web actually got to resell > Rogers stuff some years ago; I take it that this was not really a 3rd > party arrangement.) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 02:13:05 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 21:13:05 -0500 Subject: problems with teksavvy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CD8AE31.2010209@alteeve.com> On 10-11-08 07:20 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I've been having alot of problems with teksavvy. I've had 0.35 MBit > downloads for about a month and they haven't given me an ETA. Everytime > I call they give me the run around and blame rogers dupont POI. They do > not have any alternatives for me using the internet that being said, > > I'm thinking of getting the Wind Mobile Stick, does this work with linux? > > http://shop.windmobile.ca/ProductCatalog/Handsets/DatastickDetails.aspx?id=Huawei+E181+Data+Stick&color=orange > > > I'm thinking of hooking that up to my linux desktop. > > > Dave Germiquet This might be too far off topic, but I use Wind with my nexus one. I tether it (wireless AP mode) to my laptop and I know that, on phones at least, they block many ports which I was told flat out that they did not do. Since then, I've been told that they don't filter their sticks, hence the confusion. That said, I've found latency is a bit high, but not critically so unless you play sensitive online video games. It's fine for VoIP. Before you buy, get a 3G phone (a friend, if you don't have one yourself) and make sure that you can get 3G reception in your house, particularly where you plan to setup you computer. I don't get a 3G signal in the basement (not a huge surprise). Given that it's also my phone though, I had to setup a VoIP and forward calls to it when I lost my signal. Works well, but it was an unexpected expense. Anyway, overall I am happy with Wind. I've not used their internet stick though, so this may all be of minimal use. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 02:17:14 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 21:17:14 -0500 Subject: problems with teksavvy In-Reply-To: <4CD8AE31.2010209-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD8AE31.2010209@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20101109021714.GD18815@watson-wilon.ca> I run ssh and IPSEC tunnels out through the Wind internet service. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 03:17:12 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 22:17:12 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Forgot to mention I'm using it with nexus one and tethering with macbook due to my provider being down. I modified my build.prop to get faster speeds. Im on virgin mobile. Though its not necessary ... On 2010-11-08 7:49 PM, "Dave Germiquet" wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 03:23:56 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 22:23:56 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > I'm running Android 2.1 on an Rogers HTC Magic I thought Android 2.1 supported WiFi and USB tethering. Have you checked to see whether it's there? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 03:29:52 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 22:29:52 -0500 Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CD6150F.8090804@ve3syb.ca> <20101108182621.GL12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101108211417.GR12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CD8C030.2040909@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Some but not all early floppy drives were hard sectored -- mostly for > CP/M machines. DEC and Data General also used hard sector 8" floppies. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 03:33:49 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 22:33:49 -0500 Subject: problems with teksavvy In-Reply-To: <4CD8AE31.2010209-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD8AE31.2010209@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4CD8C11D.1040404@rogers.com> Digimer wrote: > I know that, on phones at > least, they block many ports which I was told flat out that they did not > do. How do you know they block those ports. WiFi tethering uses NAT to share an address with multiple devices. That NAT will block ports and I don't know of any way to get around it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 03:34:49 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 22:34:49 -0500 Subject: problems with teksavvy In-Reply-To: <20101109021714.GD18815-8agRmHhQ+n0LFV1hc+Bozg@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD8AE31.2010209@alteeve.com> <20101109021714.GD18815@watson-wilon.ca> Message-ID: <4CD8C159.1090707@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > I run ssh and IPSEC tunnels out through the Wind internet service. I have also run OpenVPN and a 6in4 IPv6 tunnel over my Nexus One on Rogers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 03:35:35 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 22:35:35 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: <4CD8BECC.7030708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 10:23 PM, James Knott wrote: > Andrew Malcolmson wrote: >> >> I'm running Android 2.1 on an Rogers HTC Magic > > I thought Android 2.1 supported WiFi and USB tethering. ?Have you checked to > see whether it's there? Worth checking; quite possible that Rogers may have declined to include it. (That's the "power" of "open sores"...) It is certainly built-in on CyanogenMod, which includes Android 2.2, these days. I'd think CM6 to be a pretty good idea. That's what I'm running on my Dream/G1. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 03:41:03 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 22:41:03 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CD8C2CF.7070009@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > Worth checking; quite possible that Rogers may have declined to > include it. It's in the phone settings, near WiFi configuration. My Nexus One came with Android 2.0, which was later upgraded to 2.1 & 2.2. Since I bought it direct from Google, I didn't have to worry about Rogers messing things up. It's also unlocked. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 04:44:40 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 23:44:40 -0500 Subject: problems with teksavvy In-Reply-To: <4CD8C11D.1040404-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD8AE31.2010209@alteeve.com> <4CD8C11D.1040404@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CD8D1B8.6050101@alteeve.com> On 10-11-08 10:33 PM, James Knott wrote: > Digimer wrote: >> I know that, on phones at >> least, they block many ports which I was told flat out that they did not >> do. > How do you know they block those ports. WiFi tethering uses NAT to > share an address with multiple devices. That NAT will block ports and I > don't know of any way to get around it. I've got the Nexus one which acts as an AP. When I spoke to Wind after getting their service, I worked my way up the support ladder and reached a tech who confirmed that "non-standard ports are blocked". This was also who confirmed that the basic Internet stick is the one with no blocked ports. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 05:31:17 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 00:31:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Grub2 grumbles Message-ID: Context: I'm installing Ubuntu 10.10 on my Acer Revo to use as a Home Theatre PC. Mostly as a MythTV client. Sadly, I expect I might use the Win7 on it to get a performant Flash (the ION makes video fast but Flash on Linux doesn't exploit that whereas Flash on Win7 does). For peculiar reasons that I've mentioned previously, I'm intending to use XBMC as a Myth client for now. The XBMC ppa's don't support Ubuntu 10.10 -- still 10.04. I found that building XBMC for 10.10 wasn't trivial. So: I installed Ubuntu 10.04 for now Summary: I need to triple boot: Ubuntu 10.10 Ubuntu 10.04 Windows 7 I use 10.10's Grub2 as the bootloader that chooses amongst these things. Complaints: grub-set-default with a label doesn't seem to work. Perhaps it will work with a number, but talk about fragile! (I just tested: a number doesn't work either) With Grub1, I used to be able to edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to customize the menu. Now the equivalent (/boot/grub/grub.cfg) is automatically generated and not to be touched. There is no clean and simple way for me to take control (I don't count writing those arcane scripts as a solution) Consequences: - I need to run grub on 10.10 whenever I update a kernel on 10.04. That's because the grub configuration thinks it knows how to load 10.04's kernel rather than just chainloading - I expect this will break down when the 10.10 and 10.04 kernels diverge in parameters. After all, the 10.10 grub configuration is supplying the parameters to the 10.04 kernel - the labels update-grub generates for the menu entries are not good. I could do much better if it would let me. It goofs up on the Windows partitions. It calls the "recovery partition" (the one that can wipe your system back to the state it was delivered in): Windows Vista (loader) (on /dev/sda1) and the real Win7 partition: Windows 7 (loader) (on /dev/sda2) Those are quite ugly and increase the chance someone will blow away the system. I'd like to be able to suppress the recovery partition menu item. It doesn't bother to mention the version of the release in the label. So 10.10 and 10.04 kernels look alike (but it does mention the partition, so those who remember what is in /dev/sda6 will be OK). These seem so stupid that perhaps I'm missing something. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 07:42:43 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 02:42:43 -0500 Subject: Setting up Debian In-Reply-To: <4CD71CDB.9010102-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD71CDB.9010102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CD8FB73.30601@gmail.com> On 10-11-07 04:40 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I gave up on xubuntu, I ended up installing Debian 5.0.6 server only. > > 1) However, i'm wondering is there an easy way for me to add the latest > xfce desktop. I guess I will also need to add X window support. How can > I do this easily. > > 2) Also I want to configure my Debian system so it always boot into > console server, I don't want to start X. How can I do this? > > 3) I added the following source, are there other source I can add for > package management that is worth noting? > > http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free > > Thanks, > If anyone is interested I did come across this site that generates package source list: http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/index.php -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 08:03:26 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 03:03:26 -0500 Subject: Grub2 grumbles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> On 10-11-09 12:31 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Context: > > I'm installing Ubuntu 10.10 on my Acer Revo to use as a Home Theatre PC. > Mostly as a MythTV client. > > Sadly, I expect I might use the Win7 on it to get a performant Flash (the > ION makes video fast but Flash on Linux doesn't exploit that whereas Flash > on Win7 does). > > For peculiar reasons that I've mentioned previously, I'm intending to use > XBMC as a Myth client for now. > > The XBMC ppa's don't support Ubuntu 10.10 -- still 10.04. I found > that building XBMC for 10.10 wasn't trivial. > > So: I installed Ubuntu 10.04 for now > > Summary: I need to triple boot: > Ubuntu 10.10 > Ubuntu 10.04 > Windows 7 > > I use 10.10's Grub2 as the bootloader that chooses amongst these > things. > > Complaints: > > grub-set-default with a label doesn't seem to work. Perhaps it will > work with a number, but talk about fragile! (I just tested: a > number doesn't work either) > > With Grub1, I used to be able to edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to customize > the menu. Now the equivalent (/boot/grub/grub.cfg) is automatically > generated and not to be touched. There is no clean and simple way for > me to take control (I don't count writing those arcane scripts as a > solution) > > Consequences: > > - I need to run grub on 10.10 whenever I update a kernel on 10.04. > That's because the grub configuration thinks it knows how to load > 10.04's kernel rather than just chainloading > > - I expect this will break down when the 10.10 and 10.04 kernels > diverge in parameters. After all, the 10.10 grub configuration > is supplying the parameters to the 10.04 kernel > > - the labels update-grub generates for the menu entries are not good. > I could do much better if it would let me. > > It goofs up on the Windows partitions. It calls the "recovery > partition" (the one that can wipe your system back to the state > it was delivered in): > Windows Vista (loader) (on /dev/sda1) > and the real Win7 partition: > Windows 7 (loader) (on /dev/sda2) > Those are quite ugly and increase the chance someone will blow away > the system. I'd like to be able to suppress the recovery partition > menu item. > > It doesn't bother to mention the version of the release in the > label. So 10.10 and 10.04 kernels look alike (but it does mention > the partition, so those who remember what is in /dev/sda6 will > be OK). > True /boot/grub/grub.cfg is automatically generated each time you install grub 2, however once you have it, you can edit it by hand, don't let the warning scare you. If you mess up you can generate the grub config file again FYI: you can remove menu entries you don't want of re-arrange them, place win-7 sys recovery at the bottom! just look for menuentry, something like this menuentry "Microsoft Windows XP Professional (on /dev/sda1)" { insmod part_msdos insmod ntfs set root='(hd0,msdos1)' search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set aa1ccf831ccf48d1 drivemap -s (hd0) ${root} chainloader +1 } Here is some info on grub 2: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#Reinstalling%20GRUB%202 basic steps to re-install grub 2 drop into rescue mode, mount your / root filesystem make sure you mount your /boot partition if it's on a separate partition. regenerate grub install config list: sudo update-grub grub-probe -t device /boot/grub sudo grub-install /dev/ sudo grub-install --recheck /dev/ where is the partition to your /boot or / root if you didn't create a separate /boot partition incidentally should be the same partition that grub-probe spit out -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 10:39:32 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 05:39:32 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: <4CD8C2CF.7070009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> <4CD8C2CF.7070009@rogers.com> Message-ID: tethering works fine with rogers and nexus one. actually quite fast. Dave Cramer VP Software Development Visible Assets Inc. www.visibleassets.com On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 10:41 PM, James Knott wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: >> >> Worth checking; quite possible that Rogers may have declined to >> include it. > > It's in the phone settings, near WiFi configuration. ?My Nexus One came with > Android 2.0, which was later upgraded to 2.1 & 2.2. ?Since I bought it > direct from Google, I didn't have to worry about Rogers messing things up. > ?It's also unlocked. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 12:03:50 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 07:03:50 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> <4CD8C2CF.7070009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CD938A6.5080504@rogers.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > tethering works fine with rogers and nexus one. actually quite fast. > Yep. I've seen over 6 Mb/s down, compared to 10 at home and 1.25 up vs 1 at home. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 12:34:18 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 07:34:18 -0500 Subject: problems with teksavvy In-Reply-To: <4CD8C11D.1040404-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD8AE31.2010209@alteeve.com> <4CD8C11D.1040404@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20101109123418.GA32537@watson-wilon.ca> On Mon, Nov 08, 2010 at 10:33:49PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > How do you know they block those ports. WiFi tethering uses NAT to > share an address with multiple devices. That NAT will block ports and I > don't know of any way to get around it. Outbound ports are blocked. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 12:35:29 2010 From: andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 07:35:29 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: <4CD938A6.5080504-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> <4CD8C2CF.7070009@rogers.com> <4CD938A6.5080504@rogers.com> Message-ID: Glad to hear everyone's happy with CyangenMod. I was pretty sure that tethering wasn't in 2.1 but am checking again. I find lots of settings in Settings/Wi-Fi & Networks but don't see anything that sounds like tethering. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 13:36:17 2010 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 05:36:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Remote root exploit for Plesk / ProFTPD Message-ID: <534090.41289.qm@web65410.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> If anyone is running ProFTPD patch it ASAP: http://www.mnxsolutions.com/linux/proftpd-remote-code-execution-vulnerability-and-exploit.html --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 14:53:19 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 09:53:19 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> <4CD8C2CF.7070009@rogers.com> <4CD938A6.5080504@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CD9605F.50307@rogers.com> Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > I was pretty sure that tethering wasn't in 2.1 but am checking again. > I find lots of settings in Settings/Wi-Fi& Networks but don't see > anything that sounds like tethering. > Under Wireless & networks I have Airplane mode Wi-Fi Bluetooth Bluetooth settings Tethering & portable hotspot ... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 14:56:29 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 09:56:29 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: <4CD9605F.50307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> <4CD8C2CF.7070009@rogers.com> <4CD938A6.5080504@rogers.com> <4CD9605F.50307@rogers.com> Message-ID: I don't think it was on my Stock Nexus One...is it possible you have CyanogenMod 5.3 on that? On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 9:53 AM, James Knott wrote: > Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > >> I was pretty sure that tethering wasn't in 2.1 but am checking again. >> I find lots of settings in Settings/Wi-Fi& Networks but don't see >> anything that sounds like tethering. >> >> > Under Wireless & networks I have > Airplane mode > Wi-Fi > Bluetooth > Bluetooth settings > Tethering & portable hotspot > ... > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 15:01:40 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 10:01:40 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> <4CD8C2CF.7070009@rogers.com> <4CD938A6.5080504@rogers.com> <4CD9605F.50307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CD96254.60609@rogers.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > I don't think it was on my Stock Nexus One...is it possible you have > CyanogenMod 5.3 on that? No. It's completed unmodified, other than Android updates. It came with Android 2.0 and has since been updated to 2.1 and 2.2. Tethering came in with 2.1. I bought my phone directly from Google, so Rogers had no opportunity to tamper with it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 15:12:36 2010 From: andmalc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 10:12:36 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: <4CD9605F.50307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> <4CD8C2CF.7070009@rogers.com> <4CD938A6.5080504@rogers.com> <4CD9605F.50307@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 9:53 AM, James Knott wrote: > Under Wireless & networks I have > Airplane mode > Wi-Fi > Bluetooth > Bluetooth settings > Tethering & portable hotspot Yup, not on mine so must have been removed by Rogers. Now I am determined to put on CyangenMod. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 16:08:09 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 11:08:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Grub2 grumbles In-Reply-To: <4CD9004E.4090102-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Rajinder Yadav | True /boot/grub/grub.cfg is automatically generated each time you install grub | 2, however once you have it, you can edit it by hand, don't let the warning | scare you. If you mess up you can generate the grub config file again Yes, but... Any changes will get washed away any time you install or remove a kernel (that process runs update-grub again) and should be blown away any time you add or remove a kernel on another partition unless you switch to chain loading (you need to run the update-grub manually). So that will work but it is a hack and rather fragile. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 16:17:37 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 11:17:37 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> <4CD8C2CF.7070009@rogers.com> <4CD938A6.5080504@rogers.com> <4CD9605F.50307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CD97421.9060900@rogers.com> Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > Yup, not on mine so must have been removed by Rogers. I fail to understand why Rogers offers large data plans and not provide phones that support tethering. I have a 6 GB plan and would be very hard pressed to use more than a tiny fraction of that without tethering. Now, instead of looking for a hotspot where I can connect my notebook computer, I just fire up the portable hotspot on my Nexus One. Incidentally, the phone will support up to 8 computers via WiFi. When I met some friends for breakfast, a couple of months ago, we had 5 computers and other devices connecting through it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 16:35:27 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 11:35:27 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: <4CD97421.9060900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> <4CD8C2CF.7070009@rogers.com> <4CD938A6.5080504@rogers.com> <4CD9605F.50307@rogers.com> <4CD97421.9060900@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:17 AM, James Knott wrote: > Andrew Malcolmson wrote: >> >> Yup, not on mine so must have been removed by Rogers. > > I fail to understand why Rogers offers large data plans and not provide > phones that support tethering. ?I have a 6 GB plan and would be very hard > pressed to use more than a tiny fraction of that without tethering. ?Now, > instead of looking for a hotspot where I can connect my notebook computer, I > just fire up the portable hotspot on my Nexus One. ?Incidentally, the phone > will support up to 8 computers via WiFi. ?When I met some friends for > breakfast, a couple of months ago, we had 5 computers and other devices > connecting through it. They like having their cake ("fees that you pay") and eating it too ("not needing to supply you with the extra GB of bandwidth that you might have imagined you paid for"). If there's an app in the App Market that helps with tethering, they still "win"; they get to collect some fee for selling you the app, and restrict tethering to the rather fewer people that jump through the hoops of figuring out it exists, and downloading and paying for it. All just an evidence of Not Inconsiderable Evil on the part of Robellus... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 17:48:51 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:48:51 -0500 Subject: Grub2 grumbles In-Reply-To: References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: So instead of editing the grub.cfg you edit /etc/boot.d/40_custom to include an entry like the one described above: menuentry "Microsoft Windows XP Professional (on /dev/sda1)" { insmod part_msdos insmod ntfs set root='(hd0,msdos1)' search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set aa1ccf831ccf48d1 drivemap -s (hd0) ${root} chainloader +1 } and then run your update-grub. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 19:02:29 2010 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 14:02:29 -0500 Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: I just thought I'd run a quick opinion survey with regard to peoples favourite webmail client for their email servers. I've been using SquirrelMail for quite some time (6-7 years) and have been quite please with it myself. But lately I have been getting some push back from staff wanting to have a more flexible client for composing in html. The SquirrelMail html plug-in works but it requires people to do some things in a very specific order. A quick Web search turned up the following 5 clients. Do any of you have any opinions about any of these? or something else entirely? BlueMamba IlohaMail RoundCube SquirrelMail UebiMiau Thanks, Stephen -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 19:41:18 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 14:41:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Stephen W. Clarke | But lately I have been getting some push back from staff | wanting to have a more flexible client for composing in html. Don't send HTML mail. Problem solved. The world is a better place for that solution. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 19:41:45 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 14:41:45 -0500 Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101109194145.GS12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 09, 2010 at 02:02:29PM -0500, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > I just thought I'd run a quick opinion survey with regard to peoples > favourite webmail client for their email servers. I've been using > SquirrelMail for quite some time (6-7 years) and have been quite please > with it myself. But lately I have been getting some push back from staff > wanting to have a more flexible client for composing in html. The > SquirrelMail html plug-in works but it requires people to do some things > in a very specific order. > > A quick Web search turned up the following 5 clients. Do any of you have > any opinions about any of these? or something else entirely? > BlueMamba > IlohaMail > RoundCube > SquirrelMail > UebiMiau The only webmail UI I like (because it has great searching and nice keyboard navigation support) is gmail. I have used horde/imp, squirrelmail and probably a couple others and they were all hopeless. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 19:51:42 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 14:51:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Grub2 grumbles In-Reply-To: References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Timothy Hildred | So instead of editing the grub.cfg you edit /etc/boot.d/40_custom to include | an entry like the one described above: | | menuentry "Microsoft Windows XP Professional (on /dev/sda1)" { | insmod part_msdos | insmod ntfs | set root='(hd0,msdos1)' | search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set aa1ccf831ccf48d1 | drivemap -s (hd0) ${root} | chainloader +1 | } | | and then run your update-grub. Yes, but... I wrote in my original message: There is no clean and simple way for me to take control (I don't count writing those arcane scripts as a solution) As far as I know, the only clean way of configuring is to add scripts to /etc/boot.d/ (as you suggest). If I modify scripts there, I'm fiddling with files owned by something (probably the grub package). Such changes are likely to be compromised in some way by updating the grub package. This directory is analogous to the System V startup scripts in /etc/init.d (also on many Linux distros). On Red Hat systems there are tools designed to manipulate that directory (netsysv, chkconfig). I know of no such tools for /etc/boot.d . Many of the problems I mentioned are not missing entries but entries that are not done the way I want. That is awkward to fix. I don't even know if scripts added to the directory will survive grub package updates. One would hope so. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 21:34:52 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 16:34:52 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> <4CD8C2CF.7070009@rogers.com> <4CD938A6.5080504@rogers.com> <4CD9605F.50307@rogers.com> <4CD97421.9060900@rogers.com> Message-ID: Stock android 2.1 does not support wifi tethering. It was introduced in froyo (2.2). Its quite possible that the nexus one had it early, but I was under the impression that they just got 2.2 before everyone else. I currently run leedeoid on my htc desire because it gives me better exchange integration. Prior to froyo, there was no sufi On 2010-11-09 8:35 AM, "Christopher Browne" wrote: > On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:17 AM, James Knott wrote: >> Andrew Malcolmson wrote: >>> >>> Yup, not on mine so must have been removed by Rogers. >> >> I fail to understand why Rogers offers large data plans and not provide >> phones that support tethering. I have a 6 GB plan and would be very hard >> pressed to use more than a tiny fraction of that without tethering. Now, >> instead of looking for a hotspot where I can connect my notebook computer, I >> just fire up the portable hotspot on my Nexus One. Incidentally, the phone >> will support up to 8 computers via WiFi. When I met some friends for >> breakfast, a couple of months ago, we had 5 computers and other devices >> connecting through it. > > They like having their cake ("fees that you pay") and eating it too > ("not needing to supply you with the extra GB of bandwidth that you > might have imagined you paid for"). > > If there's an app in the App Market that helps with tethering, they > still "win"; they get to collect some fee for selling you the app, and > restrict tethering to the rather fewer people that jump through the > hoops of figuring out it exists, and downloading and paying for it. > > All just an evidence of Not Inconsiderable Evil on the part of Robellus... > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 21:52:23 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 16:52:23 -0500 Subject: CyangenMod or Android Market for tethering? In-Reply-To: References: <4CD8BECC.7030708@rogers.com> <4CD8C2CF.7070009@rogers.com> <4CD938A6.5080504@rogers.com> <4CD9605F.50307@rogers.com> <4CD97421.9060900@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CD9C297.8040809@rogers.com> Ijaaz A. Ullah wrote: > Stock android 2.1 does not support wifi tethering. It was introduced > in froyo (2.2). Its quite possible that the nexus one had it early, > but I was under the impression that they just got 2.2 before everyone > else. My mistake. I've had two Android updates on this phone since I got it. The phone originally had 2.1 and has since been upgraded to 2.2 and 2.2.1. I was thinking 2.2 & 2.1. However, I should be getting 2.3 in the next little while. http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Android-23-Gingerbread-Headed-for-Google-Nexus-One-Report-730786/?kc=EWKNLEDP11092010B -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 22:18:14 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 17:18:14 -0500 Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: Gmail. Really. I don't even use regular mailers anymore. Just set it to work with IMAP and that's it. Of course there will be someone here saying OH MY PRIVACY IS DEAD OMG CORPORATE AMERICA THINK OF THE CHILDREN, but it's a fact: there isn't anything even close to the level of polish of Gmail's interface out there right now. - Fabio On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 14:02, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > I just thought I'd run a quick opinion survey with regard to peoples > favourite webmail client for their email servers. I've been using > SquirrelMail for quite some time (6-7 years) and have been quite please > with it myself. But lately I have been getting some push back from staff > wanting to have a more flexible client for composing in html. The > SquirrelMail html plug-in works but it requires people to do some things > in a very specific order. > > A quick Web search turned up the following 5 clients. Do any of you have > any opinions about any of these? or something else entirely? > BlueMamba > IlohaMail > RoundCube > SquirrelMail > UebiMiau > > Thanks, > Stephen > > -- > Stephen W. Clarke > Marketing and Communications Officer > Nray Services Inc. > 56A Head Street > Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 > CANADA > > (905) 627-1302 x14 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 22:20:50 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 17:20:50 -0500 Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CD9C942.30003@alteeve.com> On 10-11-09 05:18 PM, Fabio FZero wrote: > Gmail. > > Really. I don't even use regular mailers anymore. Just set it to work > with IMAP and that's it. > > Of course there will be someone here saying OH MY PRIVACY IS DEAD OMG > CORPORATE AMERICA THINK OF THE CHILDREN, but it's a fact: there isn't > anything even close to the level of polish of Gmail's interface out > there right now. > > - Fabio I believe that they sell gmail appliances that you can host yourself and use with your domain. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 22:31:31 2010 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 17:31:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Atom 330 drives only enough pins for 32-bit physical addresses In-Reply-To: References: <20101105152908.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CD6150F.8090804@ve3syb.ca> <20101108182621.GL12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: ... > > Wrong. You have to check the fine print for how they define GB. > > There is no such thing as formatted versus unformatted capacity. > > The thing I got bit on, some years ago, was the problem of > applications defining disk requirements in terms of GB = > 1024x1024x1024, when the others involved (e.g. - those selling disk > space) chose to define them in terms of 1000x1000x1000. > > Every time we increase to another level (e.g. - K --> MB --> GB --> > TB), we wind up losing another 2.4% to the measurement difference. > With TB, there's very nearly a 10% difference between "binary > measurements" and "decimal measurements." I blame the group of computer engineers who promoted this idea in the first place. Metric/SI prefixes were already well established, but "someone" thought it would be nifty to reuse the same prefixes instead of creating new ones. Of course, everyone knows the problem now, but it wasn't difficult to see the problem from the beginning. Anything technical that is so dependent on context is probably going to cause a mixup down the line (think Mars Climate Orbiter). Now, we are post-fixing a historical mistake by using the newer binary IEC notation. So, great, I know what GiB mean, but still I don't know what GB means (in all cases). I need to make multiple assumptions about the writer and the context in order to figure that out. -- Eric Battersby -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 22:49:36 2010 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 17:49:36 -0500 Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101109224936.GB11435@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> On Tue, Nov 09, 2010 at 05:18:14PM -0500, Fabio FZero wrote: > Gmail. > Really. I don't even use regular mailers anymore. Just set it to work > with IMAP and that's it. How do you follow threaded discussions on high volume mailing lists? Seriously. I'd been misled by all the false claims out there that gmail does threading, and was sorely disappointed to discover that conversations are not threads. Even on smallish threads (say about two dozen emails, with reasonable branching), I have a hard time figuring out who's replying to whom. Especially with top posting (where the quoting is hidden) or with no quoting. So how do you do it? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ss-tWm8UfAypx3iB9QmIjCX8w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 9 23:48:08 2010 From: ss-tWm8UfAypx3iB9QmIjCX8w at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 18:48:08 -0500 Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've had good experiences with Roundcube. It works great, and the HTML support is perfect. I have not tried any of the other ones so I don't know about them. On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > I just thought I'd run a quick opinion survey with regard to peoples > favourite webmail client for their email servers. I've been using > SquirrelMail for quite some time (6-7 years) and have been quite please > with it myself. But lately I have been getting some push back from staff > wanting to have a more flexible client for composing in html. The > SquirrelMail html plug-in works but it requires people to do some things > in a very specific order. > > A quick Web search turned up the following 5 clients. Do any of you have > any opinions about any of these? or something else entirely? > BlueMamba > IlohaMail > RoundCube > SquirrelMail > UebiMiau > > Thanks, > Stephen > > -- > Stephen W. Clarke > Marketing and Communications Officer > Nray Services Inc. > 56A Head Street > Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 > CANADA > > (905) 627-1302 x14 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Sadiq Saif http://staticsafe.me http://asininetech.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 00:12:00 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 19:12:00 -0500 Subject: Hello got the E181 device from wind Message-ID: Hello, I have the E181 device from wind but now im having problems getting an ip address or seeing one or getting it connected in ubuntu. Any help would be appreciated... My computer see's the device Bus 001 Device 006: ID 12d1:1001 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. E620 USB Modem dmesg output.. 453.466171] option 1-1:1.0: GSM modem (1-port) converter detected [ 453.466270] usb 1-1: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB0 [ 453.466612] option 1-1:1.1: GSM modem (1-port) converter detected [ 453.466673] usb 1-1: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB1 [ 453.469552] option 1-1:1.2: GSM modem (1-port) converter detected [ 453.469673] usb 1-1: GSM modem (1-port) converter now attached to ttyUSB2 My Mobile Broadband appears in kde to configure. I enter the information however its still not working.... How do i see or tell it to connect? Please.. Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 02:26:55 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 21:26:55 -0500 Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: <20101109224936.GB11435-XQvu0L+U/ChdoKsW+d1WxEDMw1b21574@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> <20101109224936.GB11435@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 17:49, Andrej Marjan wrote: > On Tue, Nov 09, 2010 at 05:18:14PM -0500, Fabio FZero wrote: >> Gmail. > >> Really. I don't even use regular mailers anymore. Just set it to work >> with IMAP and that's it. > > How do you follow threaded discussions on high volume mailing lists? > Seriously. > > I'd been misled by all the false claims out there that gmail does > threading, and was sorely disappointed to discover that conversations > are not threads. Even on smallish threads (say about two dozen emails, > with reasonable branching), I have a hard time figuring out who's > replying to whom. Especially with top posting (where the quoting is > hidden) or with no quoting. > > So how do you do it? Well, while Gmail encourages top posting, you're not forced to do it. Here I am replying at the bottom. :-) I don't know what you're doing there, but threading just works(tm) here. Your message is neatly grouped with all the other replies. Answering your question, I just let Gmail handle most of it automagically. I add a bit of filtering to keep things organized -- for instance, making all discussion lists skip the Inbox and receive corresponding labels -- but that's it. The priority inbox only made thing more interesting, but I'm still "training" it (and it can be turned off anyway). I used to subscribe lists with MUCH more traffic than TLUG, and that's where Gmail shined even more. Since the labels are *not* folders -- i.e., a single message can have lots of labels -- I used some smart filtering to guess to a pretty good extent which ones were the messages worth reading and which could be thrown out without regrets. I wrote a post about this on my blog, but it's in portuguese; maybe it's time to translate it. This would also be a good theme for a lightning talk. (BTW, why don't we do that in one of the TLUG meetings? It certainly would be interesting. We could follow the O'Reilly ignite model: http://ignite.oreilly.com). - Fabio -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 03:53:06 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 22:53:06 -0500 Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CDA1722.5040904@gmail.com> On 10-11-09 02:02 PM, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > I just thought I'd run a quick opinion survey with regard to peoples > favourite webmail client for their email servers. I've been using > SquirrelMail for quite some time (6-7 years) and have been quite please > with it myself. But lately I have been getting some push back from staff > wanting to have a more flexible client for composing in html. The > SquirrelMail html plug-in works but it requires people to do some things > in a very specific order. > > A quick Web search turned up the following 5 clients. Do any of you have > any opinions about any of these? or something else entirely? > BlueMamba > IlohaMail > RoundCube > SquirrelMail > UebiMiau > > Thanks, > Stephen > lol awesome you just hijacked a thread =P. fyi create a new email to start a new thread, i am seeing all webmail thread under the grub thread D. Hugh started -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 04:03:34 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 23:03:34 -0500 Subject: Grub2 grumbles In-Reply-To: References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CDA1996.5030802@gmail.com> On 10-11-09 12:48 PM, Timothy Hildred wrote: > So instead of editing the grub.cfg you edit /etc/boot.d/40_custom to > include an entry like the one described above: > > > menuentry "Microsoft Windows XP Professional (on /dev/sda1)" { > insmod part_msdos > insmod ntfs > set root='(hd0,msdos1)' > search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set aa1ccf831ccf48d1 > drivemap -s (hd0) ${root} > chainloader +1 > } > > and then run your update-grub. Timothy is right, read up on grub, if i recall you can define your own custom stuff in a template config file, grub will use it when generating a new config file. also i moved my window boot menu by editing the grub.cfg by hand, and have performed many updates. after each kernel update and one upgrade from 10.04 to 10.10 my window menu placement has not changed. could be coincident, not 100% sure! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 12:35:44 2010 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:35:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? References: <20101105183113.GA4612@node1.opengeometry.net> <20101106221754.GA5490@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: William Park writes: > When was last time you actually wrote *roff document from scratch? Sorry for the late answer. I wrote manpages for utilities I wrote since about 1997 or so and current. The last edit to one such page occurred less than a month ago. No problems writing and no problem editing. Of course I used the man macros. But, as I said, (g)roff without -man produces decent results due to the sane builtin defaults. MUCH saner than wyswyg editors. -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 13:03:27 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 08:03:27 -0500 Subject: Hello got the E181 device from wind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101110130327.GD32307@watson-wilon.ca> What is set for the APN? -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 13:54:08 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 08:54:08 -0500 Subject: Hello got the E181 device from wind In-Reply-To: <20101110130327.GD32307-8agRmHhQ+n0LFV1hc+Bozg@public.gmane.org> References: <20101110130327.GD32307@watson-wilon.ca> Message-ID: Hey I tried two different ones broadband.windmobile.ca and internet.broadband.ca. On 2010-11-10 8:03 AM, "Neil Watson" wrote: > What is set for the APN? > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 15:29:27 2010 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:29:27 -0500 Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: <4CDA1722.5040904-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> <4CDA1722.5040904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7100717392fcfe0d3fdb5b25027d628e.squirrel@nray.ca> > On 10-11-09 02:02 PM, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: >> I just thought I'd run a quick opinion survey with regard to peoples >> favourite webmail client for their email servers. I've been using >> SquirrelMail for quite some time (6-7 years) and have been quite please >> with it myself. But lately I have been getting some push back from staff >> wanting to have a more flexible client for composing in html. The >> SquirrelMail html plug-in works but it requires people to do some things >> in a very specific order. >> >> A quick Web search turned up the following 5 clients. Do any of you have >> any opinions about any of these? or something else entirely? >> BlueMamba >> IlohaMail >> RoundCube >> SquirrelMail >> UebiMiau >> >> Thanks, >> Stephen >> > > lol awesome you just hijacked a thread =P. fyi create a new email to > start a new thread, i am seeing all webmail thread under the grub thread > D. Hugh started > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely > Wow. Learn something new every day. :) Sorry about that. And here I thought threads were based on the subject line. Go figure. Thanks for letting me know. -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 15:32:43 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:32:43 -0500 Subject: Grub2 grumbles In-Reply-To: <4CDA1996.5030802-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> <4CDA1996.5030802@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 9 November 2010 23:03, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > On 10-11-09 12:48 PM, Timothy Hildred wrote: >> >> So instead of editing the grub.cfg you edit /etc/boot.d/40_custom to >> include an entry like the one described above: >> >> >> menuentry "Microsoft Windows XP Professional (on /dev/sda1)" { >> ? ? ? ?insmod part_msdos >> ? ? ? ?insmod ntfs >> ? ? ? ?set root='(hd0,msdos1)' >> ? ? ? ?search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set aa1ccf831ccf48d1 >> ? ? ? ?drivemap -s (hd0) ${root} >> ? ? ? ?chainloader +1 >> } >> >> and then run your update-grub. > > Timothy is right, read up on grub, if i recall you can define your own > custom stuff in a template config file, grub will use it when generating a > new config file. > > also i moved my window boot menu by editing the grub.cfg by hand, and have > performed many updates. after each kernel update and one upgrade from 10.04 > to 10.10 my window menu placement has not changed. could be coincident, not > 100% sure! I'm with Hugh on this. Your choices are 1) write very complex scripts, if you have the time and the knowledge, in /etc/boot.d/ that the next GRUB update will blow away (yes, yes, you can tell it not to but then you may break the update), 2) edit grub.cfg manually and have it blown away every time you install a new kernel, or 3) use 40_custom to create permanent extra entries ... except that the autogenerated entries Hugh and I DON'T WANT still precede our custom entries from 40_custom on the boot list. I understand the motivation behind the move to GRUB2. But the execution has SUCKED. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 16:25:59 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 11:25:59 -0500 Subject: Hello got the E181 device from wind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101110162559.GA4621@watson-wilon.ca> Is there a config file? If so I can send you mine. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 16:45:09 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 11:45:09 -0500 Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: <7100717392fcfe0d3fdb5b25027d628e.squirrel-wtWqQT8woy8@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> <4CDA1722.5040904@gmail.com> <7100717392fcfe0d3fdb5b25027d628e.squirrel@nray.ca> Message-ID: <20101110164509.GT12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:29:27AM -0500, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > Wow. Learn something new every day. :) Sorry about that. And here I > thought threads were based on the subject line. Go figure. Thanks for > letting me know. But subjects change, and subject doesn't provide thread info. That's why email clients put a tag in to indicate what message the reply is for. That's why using a reply with a new subject simply attaches to the existing thread as it should, because that's what you teld your email client to do when you told it to make a reply to the existing thread. A crappy mail client might try to use subjects to join conversations, but not a proper threading one. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 17:51:08 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:51:08 -0500 Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: <7100717392fcfe0d3fdb5b25027d628e.squirrel-wtWqQT8woy8@public.gmane.org> References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> <4CDA1722.5040904@gmail.com> <7100717392fcfe0d3fdb5b25027d628e.squirrel@nray.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > >> On 10-11-09 02:02 PM, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: >>> I just thought I'd run a quick opinion survey with regard to peoples >>> favourite webmail client for their email servers. I've been using >>> SquirrelMail for quite some time (6-7 years) and have been quite please >>> with it myself. But lately I have been getting some push back from staff >>> wanting to have a more flexible client for composing in html. The >>> SquirrelMail html plug-in works but it requires people to do some things >>> in a very specific order. >>> >>> A quick Web search turned up the following 5 clients. Do any of you have >>> any opinions about any of these? or something else entirely? >>> BlueMamba >>> IlohaMail >>> RoundCube >>> SquirrelMail >>> UebiMiau >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Stephen >>> >> >> lol awesome you just hijacked a thread =P. fyi create a new email to >> start a new thread, i am seeing all webmail thread under the grub thread >> D. Hugh started >> >> -- >> Kind Regards, >> Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely >> > > Wow. Learn something new every day. :) Sorry about that. And here I > thought threads were based on the subject line. Go figure. Thanks for > letting me know. > this is the first time i saw it happen =P, ya i thought it was also the subject line used for threading. > -- > Stephen W. Clarke > Marketing and Communications Officer > Nray Services Inc. > 56A Head Street > Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 > CANADA > > (905) 627-1302 x14 > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 19:02:30 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:02:30 -0500 Subject: kernel panic after fresh install In-Reply-To: References: <4CD5844E.6090305@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 5:01 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Rajinder Yadav > > | Guys I am having a problem after a fresh installed of Xubuntu 10.10 on my old > | server. I get a kernel panic, the 1st line of the message says: > | > | Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0) > > I think this means that the kernel does not know where the root > filesystem is. > > | =========================== sda1/boot/grub/grub.cfg: > | =========================== > > | ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ### > | menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 2.6.35-22-generic' --class ubuntu --class > | gnu-linux --class gnu --class os { > | ? ? ? recordfail > | ? ? ? insmod part_msdos > | ? ? ? insmod ext2 > | ? ? ? set root='(hd0,msdos1)' > | ? ? ? search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set > | ? ? ? 54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 > | ? ? ? linux ? /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic > | root=UUID=54f645ad-c340-4618-9657-39ceade647a7 ro ? quiet splash > | ? ? ? initrd ?/boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic > | } > > I assume that various lines are broken by your MUA and are fine on > your disk. ?Do check. > > I wonder if this would work: > ? ? ? ?linux ? /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic root=/dev/sda1 ro > (I replaced UUID with a device name. ?I got rid of "quiet" and > "splash" because that should put more about the boot process on the > screen.) > > Also: you can experiment by typing commands to grub during booting. > Well, maybe. ?The 10.10 grub won't listen to me on the one system I've > tried it on. > -- i tried that but eventually gave up on ubuntu for my older box, i decided to install debian server only, no X, no window manager. everything works great. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 19:15:40 2010 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:15:40 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux Message-ID: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> I knew there was a problem with my computer Every distro I tried would not install (input/output errors during the CD install) I thought it may have been Ubuntu 10.10 or Xubuntu 10.10 that was flaky. I tried replacing DVDs, media and all kinds of various distros. I did not replace the computer since the computer seemed to work fine. A quick examine of the PC showed some blown capacitors. Replaced the computer. All good. I find it troubling that I was so quick to blame a new Ubuntu instead of old hardware. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 19:27:25 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:27:25 -0500 Subject: RHEL 6 is out! Message-ID: <4CDAF21D.4060404@alteeve.com> *happy happy happy*, *joy joy joy* :D -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 19:32:12 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:32:12 -0500 Subject: RHEL 6 is out! In-Reply-To: <4CDAF21D.4060404-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDAF21D.4060404@alteeve.com> Message-ID: What major features is everyone looking forward to? On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Digimer wrote: > *happy happy happy*, *joy joy joy* > > :D > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 19:33:39 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:33:39 -0500 Subject: RHEL 6 is out! In-Reply-To: References: <4CDAF21D.4060404@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4CDAF393.3050104@alteeve.com> On 10-11-10 02:32 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > What major features is everyone looking forward to? Personally, cluster stable 3. I've been using Fedora as a stop-gap. Will be very happy to be back on a proper server distro. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 19:37:46 2010 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:37:46 -0500 Subject: What's your Favourite Webmail Client In-Reply-To: References: <4CD9004E.4090102@gmail.com> <20101109224936.GB11435@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> Message-ID: <20101110193746.GA25894@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> On Tue, Nov 09, 2010 at 09:26:55PM -0500, Fabio FZero wrote: > Well, while Gmail encourages top posting, you're not forced to do it. > Here I am replying at the bottom. :-) > I don't know what you're doing there, but threading just works(tm) > here. Your message is neatly grouped with all the other replies. I think what I'm really asking is, what's the gmail analogue of the sorts of structural patterns described at http://joey.kitenet.net/blog/entry/thread_patterns/ Note that the tree structure there is what's generally accepted as "threading". Gmail's stack of pancakes UI doesn't present the same structural information. That sort of thing lets me ignore certain high volume lists for weeks at a time and then batch process the backlog with a minimum of time and effort. Gmail seems to just flatten stuff out with its card metaphor, so I don't see where to recover any sort of structure (such as, in the banal case, who's replying to whom in a thread of a couple dozen emails). I'm obviously missing something. > I wrote a post about this on my blog, but it's in portuguese; maybe > it's time to translate it. This would also be a good theme for a > lightning talk. That would be very interesting, to me at least. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 21:05:44 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 13:05:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: RHEL 6 is out! In-Reply-To: <4CDAF21D.4060404-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDAF21D.4060404@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <366954.68408.qm@web113413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Isn' that 5.6 instead of 6.0? ----- Original Message ---- > From: Digimer > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 2:27:25 PM > Subject: [TLUG]: RHEL 6 is out! > > *happy happy happy*, *joy joy joy* > > :D > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 10 21:06:44 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 16:06:44 -0500 Subject: RHEL 6 is out! In-Reply-To: <366954.68408.qm-iGg6QNsgFOH6X00i2u5GFvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDAF21D.4060404@alteeve.com> <366954.68408.qm@web113413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CDB0964.4060309@alteeve.com> Nope, 5.6 is beta. http://www.redhat.com/rhel/server/details/ On 10-11-10 04:05 PM, William Park wrote: > Isn' that 5.6 instead of 6.0? > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Digimer >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 2:27:25 PM >> Subject: [TLUG]: RHEL 6 is out! >> >> *happy happy happy*, *joy joy joy* >> >> :D -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 00:55:33 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 19:55:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: <4CDAEF5C.9060407-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: teddy mills | Every distro I tried would not install (input/output errors during the CD | install) | Replaced the computer. All good. | I find it troubling that I was so quick to blame a new Ubuntu instead of old | hardware. Can I have your old computer? :-) I seem to remember you have high-end machines and I bet it can be repaired. Perhaps a new optical drive. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 02:18:51 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 21:18:51 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 7:55 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: teddy mills > > | Every distro I tried would not install (input/output errors during the CD > | install) > > | Replaced the computer. All good. > | I find it troubling that I was so quick to blame a new Ubuntu instead of > old > | hardware. > > Can I have your old computer? :-) > > I seem to remember you have high-end machines and I bet it can be > repaired. Perhaps a new optical drive. > um, not if there are blown caps. that's a motherboard problem... matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 02:22:39 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 21:22:39 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Matt Price wrote: >> I seem to remember you have high-end machines and I bet it can be >> repaired. ?Perhaps a new optical drive. > > um, not if there are blown caps.? that's a motherboard problem... > matt A dead motherboard isn't the worst thing in the world... $100 gets you a pretty decent mobo, and likely a lot of the other components *aren't* blown out. I had much the same happen to me many moons ago (1997, I believe), where caps blew out on a motherboard. I had to replace mobo+CPU, but the other components all served fine for several years afterwards. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 02:45:59 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 21:45:59 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> Matt Price wrote: > > I seem to remember you have high-end machines and I bet it can be > repaired. Perhaps a new optical drive. > > > um, not if there are blown caps. that's a motherboard problem... > matt Caps are replacable, for those of us with board repair skills. Over the years, I have replaced thousands of components. Capacitors tend to be among the easiest to replace. I have also replaced many surface mount chips with well over 100 pins. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 03:17:32 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 22:17:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Matt Price | On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 7:55 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Can I have your old computer? :-) | > | > I seem to remember you have high-end machines and I bet it can be | > repaired. Perhaps a new optical drive. | > | | um, not if there are blown caps. that's a motherboard problem... | matt Yeah, well, I didn't read very carefully. Chris defends my position (thanks!), but the fact is I didn't read. There was a period a number of years ago when a lot of motherboards had quickly-deteriorating capacitors. A tale of intrique (industrial espionage that wasn't good enough). If the motherboard is a victim of that problem, the whole system is probably not of great current interest. If you don't know the story, I think that is is worth learning because it could hit you. This seems like a reasonable summary. If it isn't fix it! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 03:38:25 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 22:38:25 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: <4CDB58E7.80201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 9:45 PM, James Knott wrote: > Matt Price wrote: > >> >> I seem to remember you have high-end machines and I bet it can be >> repaired. Perhaps a new optical drive. >> >> >> um, not if there are blown caps. that's a motherboard problem... >> matt >> > Caps are replacable, for those of us with board repair skills. Over the > years, I have replaced thousands of components. Capacitors tend to be among > the easiest to replace. I have also replaced many surface mount chips with > well over 100 pins. > > maybe we could do a workshop on board repair, say at freegeek osmetime? I'd love to learn how to do that, if only for fun. matt > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 03:59:06 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 22:59:06 -0500 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: <20101105183113.GA4612@node1.opengeometry.net> <20101106221754.GA5490@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20101111035906.GA4071@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 12:35:44PM +0000, Peter wrote: > William Park writes: > > When was last time you actually wrote *roff document from scratch? > > Sorry for the late answer. I wrote manpages for utilities I wrote since about > 1997 or so and current. The last edit to one such page occurred less than a > month ago. No problems writing and no problem editing. Of course I used the man > macros. > > But, as I said, (g)roff without -man produces decent results due to the sane > builtin defaults. MUCH saner than wyswyg editors. I use TeX/LaTeX for multi page documents, and MS-Word for single pagers. One thing that I couldn't get over is, the way paragraphs are broken up by .xx formats. It's very difficult to write, read, and edit. It's like reading Forth program. Forth/RPN is okey for calculators, but crazy for anything real. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 15:55:23 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 10:55:23 -0500 Subject: How to win friends Message-ID: Me: Your web page crashed when I was trying to order parts. Future Electronic Support Person: What were you doing when it crashed? M: Well, the first time, I entered a purchase order number with a dash in it. F: You can't do that. M: Shouldn't you fix your web page so that you *can* do that? Or warn the customers that they can't do that? F: I will report your problem to our IT department. M: Do you have some sort of system that catches these crashes and automatically reports them to the software people? F: No, We prefer our customers to report problems to us. What happended on the second crash? M: I have no idea. I had just completed the address information and selected checkout. The screen filled with technical error messages. I hit the back button and my information was erased. I don't have these problems on the web pages of other companies. F: Well, all company web pages have their quirks.. M: I don't have these problems on the Digikey, Avnet, Mouser or Newark order pages. Can I please speak to a human being who can take my order? F: I will refer you to a sales agent. However, you should be warned that some of the prices may be higher, and minimum quantity requirements may be higher. ================================================== Doesn't that conversation give you the warm fuzzies? Don't you really want to deal with them again? I thought so. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 16:04:31 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:04:31 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101111160431.GU12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 07:55:33PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: teddy mills > > | Every distro I tried would not install (input/output errors during the CD > | install) > > | Replaced the computer. All good. > | I find it troubling that I was so quick to blame a new Ubuntu instead of old > | hardware. > > Can I have your old computer? :-) > > I seem to remember you have high-end machines and I bet it can be > repaired. Perhaps a new optical drive. It sounded more like 'new mainboard capacitors'. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 16:19:59 2010 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:19:59 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CDC17AF.3080908@the-wire.com> On 10-11-11 10:55 AM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: [ ... reminds me indirectly somehow of Ryan's Dunder Mifflin website in _The Office_ ... ] > Doesn't that conversation give you the warm fuzzies? Don't you really want > to deal with them again? I've had good dealings with They can bill in Canadian dollars, and ship from Canada, avoiding some large nuisances. They are a small outfit, though, so you have to want what they have. There is a glitch in their website where clicking the "BUY" button on the catalog page not only gets you to the order entry page, but actually adds 1 item to the shopping cart, From there, the "ADD TO ORDER" button really does what it says. So, wanting 4, I clicked "BUY", changed the quantity to 4, clicked "ADD TO ORDER", and wound up with 5 in the cart. Good results from the pages that edited the line items back to what I wanted, so it wasn't a transaction killer. I haven't got around to telling them about this. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 16:41:52 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:41:52 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20101111164152.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:38:25PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > > maybe we could do a workshop on board repair, say at freegeek osmetime? > I'd love to learn how to do that, if only for fun. Unfortunately surface mount with visible pins is practically gone these days. Everything is going to BGA which is really not something you go replace. It can be done with much effort and often doesn't work out. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 16:53:45 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:53:45 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <4CDC17AF.3080908-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDC17AF.3080908@the-wire.com> Message-ID: Lately I've been doing this: 1. Look around on the internet and try to get an idea of the price of whatever I want to buy (www.wishabi.ca is a good place to start). 2. Go to College/Spadina, find the same item (or a better one) much cheaper and buy it. 3. There's no step three. The last time I did this, I went out to buy an LCD monitor and went home with a LED one. Yep, it was cheaper than on the internet. By the way, it's a bit surprising to find out that, excepting Amazon.ca, e-commerce works better in Brazil. o_O - Fabio. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 16:55:14 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:55:14 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: <20101111164152.GV12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> <20101111164152.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CDC1FF2.3090002@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Everything is going to BGA which is really not something > you go replace. Even "J" leads, which curl under the chip can be "fun". I've never had occasion to work with BGA. The SMT leads that extend out from the chip are fairly easy to work with, even with over 100 of them. You just have to be careful. The easiest way to remove one of those is to simply use a utility knife to cut all the leads, then wipe them off the board with a soldering iron. Then place the replacement in position, with a small amount of liquid flux under the leads, and solder an opposite pair of pins and then, after verifying the correct placement, solder the rest. I got to the point where I could change one of those 100+ pin chips in about 10 minutes. The J lead chips require a special removal tool that heats all the pins at the same time. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 16:56:56 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:56:56 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: References: <4CDC17AF.3080908@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <4CDC2058.903@rogers.com> Fabio FZero wrote: > I went out to buy an LCD monitor and went > home with a LED one. LED monitors are LCD. The difference is they use LEDs for the backlight, instead of fluorescent lamps. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 17:06:35 2010 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:06:35 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: References: <4CDC17AF.3080908@the-wire.com> Message-ID: On Nov 11, 2010, at 11:53, Fabio FZero wrote: > By the way, it's a bit surprising to find out that, excepting > Amazon.ca, e-commerce works better in Brazil. and, of course, the Amazon is mostly in Brazil, os e-commerce in Brazil rocks! ../Dave-- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 17:27:18 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 12:27:18 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <4CDC2058.903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDC17AF.3080908@the-wire.com> <4CDC2058.903@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:56, James Knott wrote: > Fabio FZero wrote: >> >> I went out to buy an LCD monitor and went >> home with a LED one. > > LED monitors are LCD. ?The difference is they use LEDs for the backlight, > instead of fluorescent lamps. Yes. I meant the the other one was of the suckier kind. - Fabio -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 20:00:06 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 15:00:06 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: References: <4CDC17AF.3080908@the-wire.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 12:06, Dave Mason wrote: > > On Nov 11, 2010, at 11:53, Fabio FZero wrote: > >> By the way, it's a bit surprising to find out that, excepting >> Amazon.ca, e-commerce works better in Brazil. > > and, of course, the Amazon is mostly in Brazil, os e-commerce in Brazil rocks! www.instantrimshot.com - Fabio -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 21:43:52 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 16:43:52 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 10:55 AM, wrote: > Me: Your web page crashed when I was trying to order parts. > > Future Electronic Support Person: What were you doing when it crashed? > > M: Well, the first time, I entered a purchase order number with a dash in it. > > F: You can't do that. > > M: Shouldn't you fix your web page so that you *can* do that? Or warn the > customers that they can't do that? > > F: I will report your problem to our IT department. > > M: Do you have some sort of system that catches these crashes and > automatically reports them to the software people? > > F: No, We prefer our customers to report problems to us. What happended on > the second crash? > > M: I have no idea. I had just completed the address information and > selected checkout. The screen filled with technical error messages. I hit > the back button and my information was erased. I don't have these problems > on the web pages of other companies. > > F: Well, all company web pages have their quirks.. > > M: I don't have these problems on the Digikey, Avnet, Mouser or Newark > order pages. Can I please speak to a human being who can take my order? > > F: I will refer you to a sales agent. However, you should be warned that > some of the prices may be higher, and minimum quantity requirements may be > higher. > > ================================================== > > Doesn't that conversation give you the warm fuzzies? Don't you really want > to deal with them again? > > I thought so. > > > > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 imho opportunity lost for them, they could have given you a small discount, apologised for the inconvenience, thanked you for your time to call. that one act alone would have won you over, instilled trusts and in spilt of their crappy website you might have provided a lead through word of mouth -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 11 22:20:36 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:20:36 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <590bb1c27af8a4170d4849e27564c771.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > > imho opportunity lost for them, they could have given you a small > discount, apologised for the inconvenience, thanked you for your time > to call. > > that one act alone would have won you over, instilled trusts and in > spilt of their crappy website you might have provided a lead through > word of mouth I do customer support for our company and my approach is to apologize to the customer for the problem: up front. Then, if it does sound like a solid problem with our stuff, I promise to fix it and get back to them. We turn around bug fixes in a day or two. I encountered a bug on another company's web site (it wouldn't take a credit card security code beginning with zero). The first email to them went into a black hole somewhere so I was a bit crabby in the second email to them. The second one got a support guy to reply. He apologized profusely for missing the first email and for the problem and got it fixed in a few hours. That's the right way to do it. Engineers and programmers understand that 'bad stuff happens' and are almost always willing to give the company a chance to fix it. But they sure don't like being told that it's the customer's problem or being stonewalled or being ignored. P. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 00:03:45 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 19:03:45 -0500 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Matt, We've not heard from you on this subject since your first post. With all the replies, I'd be interested in what you finally ended up doing. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 04:19:08 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:19:08 -0500 Subject: draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Scott Allen wrote: > Matt, > > We've not heard from you on this subject since your first post. With > all the replies, I'd be interested in what you finally ended up doing. > > hey scott, mostly i've been spinning my wheels fruitlessly on a grant application! Dia's interface is usable, much more so than Openoffice or the Gimp for this sort of thing. Graphviz looks much much cooler, but I didn't have the 15 minutes to look at the documentation... I think I want to use GraphVi -- more on principle than anything else -- but I am deathly stressed right now and unfocussed on it. I promise to report back in 10 dyas or so when I have some breathe to spare? thanks to eveyrone, matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 05:41:15 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 00:41:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Grub2 grumbles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | Context: | | Summary: I need to triple boot: | Ubuntu 10.10 | Ubuntu 10.04 | Windows 7 | | I use 10.10's Grub2 as the bootloader that chooses amongst these | things. Giving up, I have decided to use 10.04's bootloader as the bootloader. So: I want to put 10.10's boot sector on 10.10's partition's boot sector (not the Master Boot Record). Here's grub2 being unwilling: $ sudo grub-setup '(hd0,5)' [sudo] password for hugh: grub-setup: warn: Attempting to install GRUB to a partition instead of the MBR. This is a BAD idea.. grub-setup: warn: Embedding is not possible. GRUB can only be installed in this setup by using blocklists. However, blocklists are UNRELIABLE and their use is discouraged.. grub-setup: error: if you really want blocklists, use --force. $ Note: old grub would have let me use /dev/sda5 as an alternative to (hd0,4). Oh: and that 4 isn't a typo: grub1 and grub2 number partitions differently. I cannot really understand that message. Installing a boot block on a partition is perfectly normal and reasonable. If grub2 cannot handle that, it is pathetic. I'm *guessing* that grub2 wants to install parts of itself in the gap before the first partition starts. And that kind of gap doesn't exist within each partition. See this paritioning: $ sudo fdisk -u -l Disk /dev/sda: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders, total 976773168 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk identifier: 0x3c46f452 Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 2048 39847935 19922944 27 Unknown /dev/sda2 * 39847936 40052735 102400 7 HPFS/NTFS /dev/sda3 40052736 244852735 102400000 7 HPFS/NTFS /dev/sda4 244854782 976771071 365958145 5 Extended /dev/sda5 244854784 283914239 19529728 83 Linux /dev/sda6 283916288 322975743 19529728 83 Linux /dev/sda7 322977792 332740607 4881408 82 Linux swap / Solaris /dev/sda8 332742656 976771071 322014208 83 Linux There is a gap of over 2000 sectors (almost a megabyte) before the first partition starts. I'm getting seriously annoyed with grub2. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 05:44:36 2010 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 00:44:36 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 10:55:23 -0500 phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Me: Your web page crashed when I was trying to order parts. > > Future Electronic Support Person: What were you doing when it crashed? > > M: Well, the first time, I entered a purchase order number with a dash in it. > > F: You can't do that > > ... Peter, This sounds like a daily sucker on http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 13:06:06 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:06:06 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 10:55:23 -0500 > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Me: Your web page crashed when I was trying to order parts. >> >> Future Electronic Support Person: What were you doing when it crashed? >> >> M: Well, the first time, I entered a purchase order number with a dash >> in it. >> >> F: You can't do that >> >> ... > > Peter, > > This sounds like a daily sucker on http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com. > Yeah, now that I know how to crash their site, I could enter a hyphen into the purchase order number field and then do a screen capture of the resulting javascript error messages. I guess one could argue that it's no longer a web site at that point ;). P. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 14:39:13 2010 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:39:13 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:06:06 -0500 phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Peter, > > > > This sounds like a daily sucker on http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com. > > > Yeah, now that I know how to crash their site, I could enter a hyphen into > the purchase order number field and then do a screen capture of the > resulting javascript error messages. > > I guess one could argue that it's no longer a web site at that point ;). > > P. Peter, No. I mean that if you send it in and it gets featured, you will feel better. Vincent Flanders does emphasize the importance of websites attracting and keeping customers. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 15:00:09 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:00:09 -0500 Subject: Grub2 grumbles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101112150009.GW12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:41:15AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier > > | Context: > | > | Summary: I need to triple boot: > | Ubuntu 10.10 > | Ubuntu 10.04 > | Windows 7 > | > | I use 10.10's Grub2 as the bootloader that chooses amongst these > | things. > > Giving up, I have decided to use 10.04's bootloader as the bootloader. > > So: I want to put 10.10's boot sector on 10.10's partition's boot > sector (not the Master Boot Record). > > Here's grub2 being unwilling: > > $ sudo grub-setup '(hd0,5)' > [sudo] password for hugh: > grub-setup: warn: Attempting to install GRUB to a partition instead of the MBR. This is a BAD idea.. > grub-setup: warn: Embedding is not possible. GRUB can only be installed in this setup by using blocklists. However, blocklists are UNRELIABLE and their use is discouraged.. > grub-setup: error: if you really want blocklists, use --force. > $ > > Note: old grub would have let me use /dev/sda5 as an alternative to > (hd0,4). Oh: and that 4 isn't a typo: grub1 and grub2 number > partitions differently. > > I cannot really understand that message. Installing a boot block on a > partition is perfectly normal and reasonable. If grub2 cannot handle > that, it is pathetic. No, it really is absolutely correct. grub1 had a small stage 1.5 for each filesystem which it would blockmap (or embed if it fit) and install stage1 with that blockmap so that grub could boot. If you ever touched those files, grub broke until you reinstalled the stage1 in the boot sector. grub2 is modular instead of being monolithic. Not to avoid the breakage issue, grub2 wants to avoid blockmaps (since those break if the files are ever touched without reinstalling grub to the boot sector, just as lilo was easily broken, since it too was blockmapped, but lilo was worse in that it also blockmapped the kernel and ramdisks). The way grub usually does this, is to make an image with the modules required by the current system (so raid, ext2/3/4 filesystem, lvm, msdos partitions, etc) and puts that into the first track of the harddisk between the partition table and the first partition (there is almost always 62 sectors available there, unless you use EFI style GPT partitions in which case there isn't really any room, but GPT has a dedicated boot partition type that grub uses instead in that case). Now as the message says, if you really want to go back to the old unreliable way of doing things, go right ahead, but you have to explicitly tell it to force that bad idea to happen. > I'm *guessing* that grub2 wants to install parts of itself in the > gap before the first partition starts. And that kind of gap doesn't > exist within each partition. > > See this paritioning: > > $ sudo fdisk -u -l > > Disk /dev/sda: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes > 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders, total 976773168 sectors > Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes > Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > Disk identifier: 0x3c46f452 > > Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System > /dev/sda1 2048 39847935 19922944 27 Unknown > /dev/sda2 * 39847936 40052735 102400 7 HPFS/NTFS > /dev/sda3 40052736 244852735 102400000 7 HPFS/NTFS > /dev/sda4 244854782 976771071 365958145 5 Extended > /dev/sda5 244854784 283914239 19529728 83 Linux > /dev/sda6 283916288 322975743 19529728 83 Linux > /dev/sda7 322977792 332740607 4881408 82 Linux swap / Solaris > /dev/sda8 332742656 976771071 322014208 83 Linux > > There is a gap of over 2000 sectors (almost a megabyte) before the first > partition starts. Exactly 1MB I suspect. Modern windows versions aligh partitions on 1MB. > I'm getting seriously annoyed with grub2. You are annoyed that they got rid of a major source of breakage? Just use that 1MB of space you are wasting anyhow, and it will work much better and be much more reliable. It's not like you can use it for anything else useful. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 15:14:03 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:14:03 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:06:06 -0500 > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> > Peter, >> > >> > This sounds like a daily sucker on http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com. >> > >> Yeah, now that I know how to crash their site, I could enter a hyphen >> into >> the purchase order number field and then do a screen capture of the >> resulting javascript error messages. >> >> I guess one could argue that it's no longer a web site at that point ;). >> >> P. > > Peter, > > No. > > I mean that if you send it in and it gets featured, you will feel > better. Vincent Flanders does emphasize the importance of websites > attracting and keeping customers. > I remember reading their book many years ago. My impression was that they were rating visual appearance and organization. The Future website is no better or worse in that department, but it commits suicide on certain inputs. I'll have a look at their web page later today and see if they have a category for that specific suckance. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 15:40:51 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:40:51 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > but it commits suicide on certain > inputs. A few months ago, I was filling in an online form, that wouldn't accept email addresses, such as mine that have a period in the name part. Fortunately, I have another address, which I wound up using. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 16:44:01 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:44:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <4CDD6003.9080900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Nov 2010, James Knott wrote: > A few months ago, I was filling in an online form, that wouldn't accept email > addresses, such as mine that have a period in the name part. Fortunately, I > have another address, which I wound up using. A couple of times I've had to enter details on websites that insist on having the phone number in a particular format but decline to state what that format is. Options include dashes, spaces, brackets around area code and the plus sign. I suppose a bunch of their sysadmins/devs are sitting back laughing over a beer as the poor user tries in vain to enter the number in a valid format :) Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Contributing member of Software in the Public Interest (http://spi-inc.org/) Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 16:38:37 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:38:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <4CDD6003.9080900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | A few months ago, I was filling in an online form, that wouldn't accept email | addresses, such as mine that have a period in the name part. Fortunately, I | have another address, which I wound up using. A lot don't take + in email address usernames. + is perfectly legal according to the RFC. + has an interesting effect, at least with sendmail. For delivering, sendmail ignores but preserves everything after the +. You can use this create variants of your email address and use them to track down who passed your email address around. So, for example, you could tell Future that your email address is peter+future-hcDgGtZH8xPowKkBSvOlow at public.gmane.org Mail to that address would be delivered to peter-hcDgGtZH8xPowKkBSvOlow at public.gmane.org But you would know that any mail to peter+future-hcDgGtZH8xNBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org came because Future gave out your address. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 18:03:23 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:03:23 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20101112180323.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:38:37AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > A lot don't take + in email address usernames. + is perfectly legal > according to the RFC. > > + has an interesting effect, at least with sendmail. For delivering, > sendmail ignores but preserves everything after the +. You can use > this create variants of your email address and use them to track down > who passed your email address around. So, for example, you could tell > Future that your email address is peter+future-hcDgGtZH8xPowKkBSvOlow at public.gmane.org Mail to > that address would be delivered to peter-hcDgGtZH8xPowKkBSvOlow at public.gmane.org But you would > know that any mail to peter+future-hcDgGtZH8xNBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org came because Future > gave out your address. gmail nicely allows that too. Very annoying that many websites don't allow + in the email, given it is very much legal. So many useless website designers out there. :( -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 21:11:30 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:11:30 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> Message-ID: > A lot don't take + in email address usernames. + is perfectly legal > according to the RFC. > > + has an interesting effect, at least with sendmail. For delivering, > sendmail ignores but preserves everything after the +. You can use > this create variants of your email address and use them to track down > who passed your email address around. So, for example, you could tell > Future that your email address is peter+future-hcDgGtZH8xPowKkBSvOlow at public.gmane.org Mail to > that address would be delivered to peter-hcDgGtZH8xPowKkBSvOlow at public.gmane.org But you would > know that any mail to peter+future-hcDgGtZH8xNBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org came because Future > gave out your address. > -- Very interesting. I might use that... P. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 21:31:15 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:31:15 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CDDB223.7090809@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> A lot don't take + in email address usernames. + is perfectly legal >> according to the RFC. >> >> + has an interesting effect, at least with sendmail. For delivering, >> sendmail ignores but preserves everything after the +. You can use >> this create variants of your email address and use them to track down >> who passed your email address around. So, for example, you could tell >> Future that your email address is peter+future-hcDgGtZH8xPowKkBSvOlow at public.gmane.org Mail to >> that address would be delivered to peter-hcDgGtZH8xPowKkBSvOlow at public.gmane.org But you would >> know that any mail to peter+future-hcDgGtZH8xNBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org came because Future >> gave out your address. >> -- >> > Very interesting. I might use that... > > P. > > I just tried it and it didn't work. I received a delivery failure notice due to no user. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 21:52:36 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:52:36 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <4CDDB223.7090809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> <4CDDB223.7090809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20101112215236.GY12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 04:31:15PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >>> A lot don't take + in email address usernames. + is perfectly legal >>> according to the RFC. >>> >>> + has an interesting effect, at least with sendmail. For delivering, >>> sendmail ignores but preserves everything after the +. You can use >>> this create variants of your email address and use them to track down >>> who passed your email address around. So, for example, you could tell >>> Future that your email address is peter+future-hcDgGtZH8xPowKkBSvOlow at public.gmane.org Mail to >>> that address would be delivered to peter-hcDgGtZH8xPowKkBSvOlow at public.gmane.org But you would >>> know that any mail to peter+future-hcDgGtZH8xNBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org came because Future >>> gave out your address. >>> -- >>> >> Very interesting. I might use that... >> >> P. >> >> > I just tried it and it didn't work. I received a delivery failure > notice due to no user. Does the target site run sendmail? If so which version? Is the feature enabled (it is almost certainly optional)? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 23:28:27 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 18:28:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Grub2 grumbles In-Reply-To: <20101112150009.GW12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112150009.GW12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:41:15AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | > | > | Context: | > | | > | Summary: I need to triple boot: | > | Ubuntu 10.10 | > | Ubuntu 10.04 | > | Windows 7 | > | | > | I use 10.10's Grub2 as the bootloader that chooses amongst these | > | things. | > | > Giving up, I have decided to use 10.04's bootloader as the bootloader. | > | > So: I want to put 10.10's boot sector on 10.10's partition's boot | > sector (not the Master Boot Record). | > | > Here's grub2 being unwilling: | > | > $ sudo grub-setup '(hd0,5)' | > [sudo] password for hugh: | > grub-setup: warn: Attempting to install GRUB to a partition instead of the MBR. This is a BAD idea.. | > grub-setup: warn: Embedding is not possible. GRUB can only be installed in this setup by using blocklists. However, blocklists are UNRELIABLE and their use is discouraged.. | > grub-setup: error: if you really want blocklists, use --force. | > $ That message isn't clear. If a clear message won't fit, include a URI for a reasonable description. It turns out that with --force this works and is probably (not sure) as robust as with grub-legacy. | > I cannot really understand that message. Installing a boot block on a | > partition is perfectly normal and reasonable. If grub2 cannot handle | > that, it is pathetic. | | No, it really is absolutely correct. | | grub1 had a small stage 1.5 for each filesystem which it would blockmap | (or embed if it fit) and install stage1 with that blockmap so that grub | could boot. If you ever touched those files, grub broke until you | reinstalled the stage1 in the boot sector. You are using the same jargon as is confusing in that message. "Embed", the English word, does not mean "stick in an otherwise normally unused portion of a disk drive". "blockmap" means a list of physical block addresses (refinement: extents) so that the bootloader can find a particular file in a filesystem without actually understanding the filesystem. A simple bootloader can be neutral (OS-instance-agnostic). A complex one cannot. Since it is tied to a particular bootable partition, it ought to be able to live in that bootable partition. Look at the use cases that I presented (partially implicitly) in my first message. If a boot loader must use "embedding", then likely only one can exist on a disk. Since I have multiple bootable systems on my disk, each with different configurations and procedures, I need multiple boot loaders. Bzzzt, we have a problem. LILO needed to have a blockmap, not only for bootstrapping itself in, but for accessing the kernel image. This was very inconvenient because one had to run the lilo installer whenever adding or deleting a kernel so that the blockmaps could be built. Grub-legacy only needed a blockmap to bootstrap itself. The blockmap would need to be rebuilt only when a new grub was installed. Grub-legacy understood filesystems sufficiently to load a kernel by name and not by blockmap. This was a pretty pleasant tradeoff. After all, grub changes rarely and an update package's script could handle that. | grub2 is modular instead of being monolithic. Not to avoid the breakage | issue, grub2 wants to avoid blockmaps (since those break if the files are | ever touched without reinstalling grub to the boot sector, just as lilo | was easily broken, since it too was blockmapped, but lilo was worse in | that it also blockmapped the kernel and ramdisks). The way grub usually | does this, is to make an image with the modules required by the current | system (so raid, ext2/3/4 filesystem, lvm, msdos partitions, etc) and puts | that into the first track of the harddisk between the partition table and | the first partition (there is almost always 62 sectors available there, | unless you use EFI style GPT partitions in which case there isn't really | any room, but GPT has a dedicated boot partition type that grub uses | instead in that case). | | Now as the message says, if you really want to go back to the old | unreliable way of doing things, go right ahead, but you have to explicitly | tell it to force that bad idea to happen. So: is or is not grub2 with blockmap more fragile than grub-legacy? It need not be. | > There is a gap of over 2000 sectors (almost a megabyte) before the first | > partition starts. | | Exactly 1MB I suspect. Modern windows versions aligh partitions on 1MB. 1MB less the boot sector (i.e. almost a megabyte). | > I'm getting seriously annoyed with grub2. | | You are annoyed that they got rid of a major source of breakage? Because they tell me not to do something that is reasonable to do. And that I used to be able to do. And telling me in obscure language. | Just use that 1MB of space you are wasting anyhow, and it will work much | better and be much more reliable. It's not like you can use it for | anything else useful. If I can live with a single bootloader. I cannot. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 12 23:38:52 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 18:38:52 -0500 Subject: Grub2 grumbles In-Reply-To: References: <20101112150009.GW12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101112233852.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 06:28:27PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > That message isn't clear. If a clear message won't fit, include a URI > for a reasonable description. > > It turns out that with --force this works and is probably (not sure) > as robust as with grub-legacy. > > You are using the same jargon as is confusing in that message. > > "Embed", the English word, does not mean "stick in an otherwise > normally unused portion of a disk drive". > > "blockmap" means a list of physical block addresses (refinement: > extents) so that the bootloader can find a particular file in a > filesystem without actually understanding the filesystem. > > A simple bootloader can be neutral (OS-instance-agnostic). A complex > one cannot. Since it is tied to a particular bootable partition, it > ought to be able to live in that bootable partition. Look at the use > cases that I presented (partially implicitly) in my first message. Well grub2 on efi systems and on powerpc systems in fact uses a dedicated boot partition to be embedded in. It does NOT install in any way to a partition that contains the OS to boot. So in fact it should usually NOT install on the partition where the OS is. You can in fact have multiple boot partitions on those setups, so you have a boot partition per OS with a bootloader installed. You could use GPT and use that setup. Works quite well apparently. > If a boot loader must use "embedding", then likely only one can exist > on a disk. Since I have multiple bootable systems on my disk, each > with different configurations and procedures, I need multiple boot > loaders. Bzzzt, we have a problem. See GPT option above. > LILO needed to have a blockmap, not only for bootstrapping itself in, > but for accessing the kernel image. This was very inconvenient > because one had to run the lilo installer whenever adding or deleting > a kernel so that the blockmaps could be built. > > Grub-legacy only needed a blockmap to bootstrap itself. The blockmap > would need to be rebuilt only when a new grub was installed. > Grub-legacy understood filesystems sufficiently to load a kernel by > name and not by blockmap. This was a pretty pleasant tradeoff. After > all, grub changes rarely and an update package's script could handle > that. But still fragile. Any changes to the filesystem (resizing, moving, etc) could break the blockmap. It was fragile, although much less so than lilo. > So: is or is not grub2 with blockmap more fragile than grub-legacy? > It need not be. No grub2 with a blockmap is exactly the same as grub-legacy. > 1MB less the boot sector (i.e. almost a megabyte). True. > | > I'm getting seriously annoyed with grub2. > | > | You are annoyed that they got rid of a major source of breakage? > > Because they tell me not to do something that is reasonable to do. > And that I used to be able to do. And telling me in obscure language. It was not that obscure, and just because they used to do it doesn't mean it was a good idea, it was just the best they had at the time (and a vast improvement over lilo). They are trying to make things better, and they are trying to not silently do a suboptimal install, by telling you that what you are about to do has consequences and making you confirm your intent. > If I can live with a single bootloader. I cannot. I honestly can't imagine wanting more than one bootloader on a machine. If I ever want to play with other linux distributions than the one on my machine, I will use a virtual machine. My machine only has the OS installed that I use. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 13 02:32:31 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:32:31 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <20101112215236.GY12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> <4CDDB223.7090809@rogers.com> <20101112215236.GY12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CDDF8BF.2090301@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> I just tried it and it didn't work. I received a delivery failure >> > notice due to no user. >> > Does the target site run sendmail? If so which version? Is the feature > enabled (it is almost certainly optional)? > > I tried it to my own account on Rogers. I have no idea what they use. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 13 02:53:47 2010 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 21:53:47 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <20101112180323.GX12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> <20101112180323.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:38:37AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> A lot don't take + in email address usernames. ?+ is perfectly legal >> according to the RFC. >> >> > > gmail nicely allows that too. ?Very annoying that many websites don't > allow + in the email, given it is very much legal. I've been using this feature increasingly over the last couple years and find it incredibly handy. > So many useless website designers out there. :( The issue can be worked around on some sites by url-encoding the address before submitting it (replace "+" with "%2B"); it's hit and miss though. -- ? Scott Elcomb ? http://www.psema4.com/?? @psema4 ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 13 14:11:05 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 09:11:05 -0500 Subject: Why Trac Rocks (was draw a pretty timeline graphic w/ text?) In-Reply-To: References: <4CD2E5CA.90901@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4CDE9C79.9010500@dinamis.com> On 11/04/2010 02:19 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:56 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY > wrote: >> The Graphviz plug-in for Trac enabled me to create diagrams that could be >> viewed right in the wiki without having to download an attachment. I could >> have done that by exporting a Kivio diagram to PNG too, but the advantage of >> the Graphviz plug-in is that I can have hyperlinks in the various symbols to >> other diagrams, Trac tickets, Trac wiki pages, changesets, any web site, in >> short, anything that has a URL. > > That's rather cool! It doesn't *quite* press me to look into Trac, I just made extensive modifications to the Trac ticket workflow to more closely model the way that we actually work with our clients. Trac ships with a script that will generate a PDF from the ticket workflow expresses in trac.ini. It failed with "cannot find kpdf" on the server on which I ran it but I noticed that it had generated a .dot file, which from my recent experience with Graphviz, I thought was something I could use. Sure enough, there was a complete digraph expressing the workflow which I copied/pasted into a Trac wiki page that I created to document the ticket workflow. It took five minutes all told to document the changes I had made and that included fixing an error that I only noticed when I examined the resultant graph. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 13 17:20:22 2010 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:20:22 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <20101112180323.GX12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> <20101112180323.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CDEC8D6.9030001@yahoo.ca> On 10-11-12 01:03 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:38:37AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> A lot don't take + in email address usernames. + is perfectly legal >> according to the RFC. >> ... > gmail nicely allows that too. Very annoying that many websites don't > allow + in the email, given it is very much legal. > > So many useless website designers out there. :( qmail has a similar feature too, except it uses a minus sign instead of a plus sign. It is enabled by having an (empty) .qmail-default file in the user's home directory. I think minus sign is a little more often accepted by sloppily validated web forms too. Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 13 18:39:06 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 13:39:06 -0500 Subject: Are you running Linux as your desktop? In-Reply-To: <20101021001929.19f1f815.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101021001929.19f1f815.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: >> Just to note, the following folks are attempting to refute the claim >> that Linux is on less than 1% of all desktops... If you are running >> Linux on your desktop PC you may want to add your vote: >> >> http://www.dudalibre.com/gnulinuxcounter?lang=en > > ? 0.0186248% and counting! ?:( > > ? The Windows machines have virii that automatically log in and vote. ?That is my story, and I am sticking to it. http://www.economist.com/node/21012729 A different version of the same stuff The guy got so many fact wrong I do not know where to start. For example, apparently, XP is still widely used not because of human natural inertia to change, but because of wide selection of drivers. > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 13 19:08:42 2010 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:08:42 -0500 Subject: Are you running Linux as your desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <20101021001929.19f1f815.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20101113140842.d9d951c4.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 13:39:06 -0500 William Muriithi wrote: > > http://www.economist.com/node/21012729 > > A different version of the same stuff > > The guy got so many fact wrong I do not know where to start. For > example, apparently, XP is still widely used not because of human > natural inertia to change, but because of wide selection of drivers. William, The guy is partially right. Telnet _is_ a security hole, and you should not install it. There is no need for it on a consumer's computer, and it should be offered on a designated user-friendly Linux distro. A major problem with Windows Vista is that lack of IE6 support. So many companies out there have written online applications that require it. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 13 21:36:37 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 16:36:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Are you running Linux as your desktop? In-Reply-To: <20101113140842.d9d951c4.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101021001929.19f1f815.hgibson@eol.ca> <20101113140842.d9d951c4.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: | From: Howard Gibson | The guy is partially right. Telnet _is_ a security hole, and you | should not install it. There is no need for it on a consumer's | computer, and it should be offered on a designated user-friendly | Linux distro. I don't think any mainstream distro of this millenium installs or suggests installing a telnet server. I doubt the author asked to install a telnet server, so he is most likely wrong about having the telnet port open. | A major problem with Windows Vista is that lack of IE6 support. So | many companies out there have written online applications that | require it. The article wasn't about Vista. The article was approximately true, just like most journalism. Thus quite misleading. I was surprised that most of the reader comments were reasonable -- not at all like to Globe and Mail online comments. There are good reasons to use XP. The ones that come to mind involve reducing effort: - the machine came with XP. That eliminates any installation effort, even if a Linux install is easier than an XP install - the vendor "owes" you Windows support (I've not had much luck at this). - everyone has a circle of friends that can help them with Windows problems - workplaces generally use XP so if you are taking work home, XP is likely to be the easiest platform for work brought home - as the majority platform, there are a lot of other benefits from the network effect Linux fans (like me) don't always add up the time we spend to do things the better way. (Example from today: RHEL 5 / CentOS 5 introduced a kernel bug a year and a half ago that causes one of my boxes to fail to lower the CPU speed when idle. I'm the only one reporting the bug. The kernel.org kernels don't have this bug -- it's from a backport the RHEL of half a change. It isn't going to get fixed (note: RH was willing to fix it but I suggested that the chances of breaking something outweighed the inconvenience to me (I'm not even a customer)). So whenever there is a CentOS kernel update, I have to build a fixed kernel and install it. Today was such a day.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 14 12:53:06 2010 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 07:53:06 -0500 Subject: any recommendations for GPS logger suitable for OpenStreetMap work? Message-ID: <201011140753.06826.icanprogram@295.ca> I'm looking to map the many walking trails in and around where I live. I've never owned a GPS much less a GPS logger. Any thoughts on what type I should purchase? I was hoping to stay under $100 if possible. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 14 13:10:30 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 08:10:30 -0500 Subject: any recommendations for GPS logger suitable for OpenStreetMap work? In-Reply-To: <201011140753.06826.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <201011140753.06826.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: I'm using a GPS receiver from Microsoft Streets and Trips with a netbook, with my own Tcl software to display and record the data from the receiver. Not a suitable solution for walking, but it fits into a carrier on the back of a bicycle. The 'prune' GPS data editing program is really excellent for plotting the data. Peter > I'm looking to map the many walking trails in and around where I live. > I've > never owned a GPS much less a GPS logger. Any thoughts on what type I > should purchase? I was hoping to stay under $100 if possible. > > Thanks in advance for your suggestions. > > bob > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 14 13:39:28 2010 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 08:39:28 -0500 Subject: any recommendations for GPS logger suitable for OpenStreetMap work? In-Reply-To: <201011140753.06826.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <201011140753.06826.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <4CDFE690.2030705@gmail.com> On 10-11-14 07:53 , bob 295 wrote: > I'm looking to map the many walking trails in and around where I live. I've > never owned a GPS much less a GPS logger. Any thoughts on what type I > should purchase? I was hoping to stay under $100 if possible. I think Richard Weait's on the list, but basically you need something: 1) that can log a trackpoint every second 2) that has a decent antenna 3) that can store a lot of trackpoints. My Blackberry, running bbtracker, does 1 & 3 well, but fails so badly on 2 that it's useless for generating tracks. It wanders +/- 20m or so even with a good signal. I'd compare what you can get at Canada GPS with the OSM user reviews at . I use a big old (expensive, alas) Garmin unit myself, but if I were getting a GPS logger, I'd probably spring for something that could at least display the time. Without a time display, it's harder to sync your camera to the GPS track. The Holux M-241, though not the very newest chipset, looks adequately hackable, and is under $100. Haven't used it myself, though. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 16:58:30 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:58:30 -0500 Subject: Are you running Linux as your desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <20101021001929.19f1f815.hgibson@eol.ca> <20101113140842.d9d951c4.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20101115165830.GA12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 04:36:37PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Howard Gibson > > | The guy is partially right. Telnet _is_ a security hole, and you > | should not install it. There is no need for it on a consumer's > | computer, and it should be offered on a designated user-friendly > | Linux distro. > > I don't think any mainstream distro of this millenium installs or > suggests installing a telnet server. I doubt the author asked to > install a telnet server, so he is most likely wrong about having the > telnet port open. > > | A major problem with Windows Vista is that lack of IE6 support. So > | many companies out there have written online applications that > | require it. > > The article wasn't about Vista. > > > The article was approximately true, just like most journalism. Thus > quite misleading. I was surprised that most of the reader comments > were reasonable -- not at all like to Globe and Mail online comments. > > > There are good reasons to use XP. The ones that come to mind involve > reducing effort: > > - the machine came with XP. That eliminates any installation effort, > even if a Linux install is easier than an XP install > > - the vendor "owes" you Windows support (I've not had much luck at > this). Yeah lots of hardware doesn't have drivers for anything newer than XP, even though the hardware was sold in the last couple of years. > - everyone has a circle of friends that can help them with Windows > problems > > - workplaces generally use XP so if you are taking work home, XP is > likely to be the easiest platform for work brought home > > - as the majority platform, there are a lot of other benefits from the > network effect > > Linux fans (like me) don't always add up the time we spend to do > things the better way. > > (Example from today: RHEL 5 / CentOS 5 introduced a kernel bug a year > and a half ago that causes one of my boxes to fail to lower the CPU > speed when idle. I'm the only one reporting the bug. The kernel.org > kernels don't have this bug -- it's from a backport the RHEL of half a > change. It isn't going to get fixed (note: RH was willing to fix it > but I suggested that the chances of breaking something outweighed the > inconvenience to me (I'm not even a customer)). So whenever there is a > CentOS kernel update, I have to build a fixed kernel and install it. > Today was such a day.) I would say you were wrong. The chances half a change backported breaks something is rather high. It broke your machine after all. They should very much have fixed it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 16:59:37 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 11:59:37 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <4CDDF8BF.2090301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> <4CDDB223.7090809@rogers.com> <20101112215236.GY12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDDF8BF.2090301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20101115165937.GB12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 09:32:31PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > I tried it to my own account on Rogers. I have no idea what they use. I believe they use yahoo mail, whatever they are using. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 17:22:58 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:22:58 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <20101115165937.GB12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112004436.cf75d8ed.hgibson@eol.ca> <5d9c856d406d8aa2ab7fad6bad2798f2.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> <4CDDB223.7090809@rogers.com> <20101112215236.GY12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDDF8BF.2090301@rogers.com> <20101115165937.GB12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CE16C72.5090705@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 09:32:31PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > >> I tried it to my own account on Rogers. I have no idea what they use. >> > I believe they use yahoo mail, whatever they are using. > > Yes, they are using Yahoo have have for a few years now. Regardless, they still don't like that "+". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 17:34:54 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:34:54 -0500 Subject: How to win friends In-Reply-To: <4CE16C72.5090705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101112093913.9231d268.hgibson@eol.ca> <71323b3e5c806d95d622249c7cbb1186.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4CDD6003.9080900@rogers.com> <4CDDB223.7090809@rogers.com> <20101112215236.GY12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDDF8BF.2090301@rogers.com> <20101115165937.GB12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CE16C72.5090705@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20101115173454.GC12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 12:22:58PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Yes, they are using Yahoo have have for a few years now. Regardless, > they still don't like that "+". Yahoo doesn't even have imap support, what makes you think they would have a useful feature like that? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 19:25:18 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 14:25:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: RHEL kernel patch backport [was Re: Are you running Linux as your desktop?] In-Reply-To: <20101115165830.GA12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101021001929.19f1f815.hgibson@eol.ca> <20101113140842.d9d951c4.hgibson@eol.ca> <20101115165830.GA12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 04:36:37PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Linux fans (like me) don't always add up the time we spend to do | > things the better way. | > | > (Example from today: RHEL 5 / CentOS 5 introduced a kernel bug a year | > and a half ago that causes one of my boxes to fail to lower the CPU | > speed when idle. I'm the only one reporting the bug. The kernel.org | > kernels don't have this bug -- it's from a backport the RHEL of half a | > change. It isn't going to get fixed (note: RH was willing to fix it | > but I suggested that the chances of breaking something outweighed the | > inconvenience to me (I'm not even a customer)). So whenever there is a | > CentOS kernel update, I have to build a fixed kernel and install it. | > Today was such a day.) | | I would say you were wrong. The chances half a change backported breaks | something is rather high. It broke your machine after all. They should | very much have fixed it. The story is long and probably boring to most folks. But sometimes one can learn from others travails, so here's a summary. My original summary "half a change" isn't accurtate enough. Even this new summary won't be 100% accurate since I'm basing it on my decaying memory. My CentOS box is an old first-generation HP AMD64 box. Optional boring details about my computer; skip if you feel like it: I bought it in 2004 or 2005 from the precursor of TechSource, debranded and refurbished It was probably a customer return from a US retail store, sold off in bulk. "Debranded" meant that the HP branding was covered up or removed and no software was included, not even Windows. An awesomely inexpensive way for me to get into the AMD64 world. The motherboard was made for HP by Asus. It turns out to be a great box: quiet and reliable. I use it as a server now, hence CentOS. The ACPI system allows the BIOS to export functionality to any willing OS. This is a great idea: the original way of exporting functionality, code entry-points accessed through INT instructions, required that your CPU be in the stupidest mode (i.e. 16-bit mode with no memory mapping). The way ACPI does this is to use a specified pseudo-machine code and have each OS include an interpreter for this machine code. Intel even provides and maintains tools for this ACPI machine code that work in Linux and Windows (assemblers, disassemblers, and interpreters). It is up to the machine maker to write/customize/maintain the ACPI code itself that is embedded in the BIOS. Sadly, like all BIOS functionality, most manufacturers whack on the code until MS Windows seems to work and then never look back. It turns out that that leaves several problems for Linux machines. Linux ACPI support has to deal with broken ACPI code: otherwise the machines won't be supported. My machine's ACPI has a kind of breakage (I think). There are two ways of determining the number of entries in the table that specifies how many power states there are. By one method, all is well. By another, there are bad entries at the end that must be ignored. No problem: the Linux kernel's AMD64 ACPI code ignores bad entries (at least the kind I have). Apparently the Linux kernel's Intel 64 ACPI code does not ignore bad entries. At some point, some Xeon BIOSes were produced with such bad entries. The Linux kernel hung on those machines. As a fix, the Linux kernel folks put sanity checks in for these table entries, common to AMD64 and Intel 64, upstream of where the control diverges. This sanity check says: if any entry is bad, consider the whole table to be bad. With the table ignored, Linux would no longer run my server at less than full clock rate. More precisely, Linux didn't know how to change the clock rate so it left it in the initial speed, full. With the kernel.org Kernel, a second change was made. Before the sanity check was done, the length of the table was calculated to be the lesser of the lengths yielded by the two ways of determining table size. Since the bad entries on my machine are beyond one of these lengths, my machine would operate as expected if this second change were included. Unfortunately, RHEL only backported the first change. So my computer does not get properly throttled on RHEL or CentOS. This showed up about a year and a half ago -- 4+ years into the life of the computer. Probably few of them are still in service running RHEL/CentOS. Googling found me no other reports of this problem. Figuring this out took me a long time. Convincing others took me a long time. I eventually reported it to the kernel.org Kernel bugzilla only to have the experts come back and point out that it couldn't happen in that kernel (due to the second change). I then took that report back to Red Hat and that was enough to get them to finally see that there was a problem. Reporting this to CentOS was worse than useless. They will not diverge from RHEL (a good thing). But reporting and discussing did take my time (and theirs). Red Hat seems fairly open to reports of bugs from CentOS users. Wow. My CentOS bug report: RHEL bz that culminated in the fix that broke my system: My RHEL bz entry: My kernel.org bz entry. Oops. Note: Zhang Rui and Bob Moore are at Intel and are kernel developers. Should Red Hat backport the second change? - kernel patch backporting can be dangerous. Heck, my problem is an example of that. Skilled/experienced kernel folks are already busy so it might fall onto an inexpereinced person. - the current situation is only known to hurt one non-customer who knows a work-around. True, others may experience this, but where's the evidence? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 22:18:28 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 14:18:28 -0800 Subject: Use and capture of the "time" command Message-ID: I'm trying to time some commands and dump the output to a running log. For some reason unknown to me, the time command always seems to spit directly to my terminal, even when I'm redirecting stdout and stderr. Anyone know what's going on. For example, this should be dumping to a file, not my screen like... root at linux: ~# time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 real 0m0.037s user 0m0.000s sys 0m0.040s Perhaps I'm just short of caffeine and doing something incredibly dumb, but it doesn't seem right I checked the man-page and it says any arguments after the command following "time" are considered arguments of said command, so I thought perhaps it was interpreting it like time $( dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) In that case, I should have be able to override using... echo $( time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) But I get the same thing. output to the screen and nada in /tmp/foo.txt Anyone know what's up with this? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 22:20:32 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 14:20:32 -0800 Subject: Use and capture of the "time" command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Responding to myself, but FYI I am aware that time has arguments to write/append a file, it's just annoying if I want to do something like assign the result to a variable or existing open FH, etc... On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I'm ?trying to time some commands and dump the output to a running > log. For some reason unknown to me, the time command always seems to > spit directly to my terminal, even when I'm redirecting stdout and > stderr. > > Anyone know what's going on. For example, this should be dumping to a > file, not my screen like... > > > root at linux: ~# time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 > > real ? ?0m0.037s > user ? ?0m0.000s > sys ? ? 0m0.040s > > Perhaps I'm just short of caffeine and doing something incredibly > dumb, but it doesn't seem right > > I checked the man-page and it says any arguments after the command > following "time" are considered arguments of said command, so I > thought perhaps it was interpreting it like > > time $( dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) > > In that case, I should have be able to override using... > > echo $( time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) > > > But I get the same thing. output to the screen and nada in /tmp/foo.txt > Anyone know what's up with this? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 22:22:22 2010 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 14:22:22 -0800 Subject: Use and capture of the "time" command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 2:20 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Responding to myself, but FYI I am aware that time has arguments to > write/append a file, it's just annoying if I want to do something like > assign the result to a variable or existing open FH, etc... What happens if you use that option to write to /dev/stdout? Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 22:25:05 2010 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 17:25:05 -0500 Subject: Use and capture of the "time" command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I believe that when you run the "time" command within bash, it's running a built-in command. It looks like that messes with the redirection for some reason (maybe someone else can explain it?). If you run: /usr/bin/time dd.... You will probably get something more like you expect. -Vic Vic Gedris - http://vic.gedris.org Toronto, Ontario, Canada - http://www.junctiontriangle.ca On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I'm trying to time some commands and dump the output to a running > log. For some reason unknown to me, the time command always seems to > spit directly to my terminal, even when I'm redirecting stdout and > stderr. > > Anyone know what's going on. For example, this should be dumping to a > file, not my screen like... > > > root at linux: ~# time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 > > real 0m0.037s > user 0m0.000s > sys 0m0.040s > > Perhaps I'm just short of caffeine and doing something incredibly > dumb, but it doesn't seem right > > I checked the man-page and it says any arguments after the command > following "time" are considered arguments of said command, so I > thought perhaps it was interpreting it like > > time $( dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) > > In that case, I should have be able to override using... > > echo $( time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) > > > But I get the same thing. output to the screen and nada in /tmp/foo.txt > Anyone know what's up with this? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 22:26:55 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 14:26:55 -0800 Subject: Use and capture of the "time" command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow... actually that option doesn't even work. Seems like the debian/ubuntu version of time is perhaps a bit messed up. root at linux: ~# time -o /tmp/foo.txt dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 -o: command not found real 0m0.178s user 0m0.150s sys 0m0.010s root at linux:~# time --output=/tmp/foo.txt dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 bash: --output=/tmp/foo.txt: No such file or directory real 0m0.002s user 0m0.000s sys 0m0.000s On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 2:20 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Responding to myself, but FYI I am aware that time has arguments to >> write/append a file, it's just annoying if I want to do something like >> assign the result to a variable or existing open FH, etc... > > What happens if you use that option to write to /dev/stdout? > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 22:28:54 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 14:28:54 -0800 Subject: Use and capture of the "time" command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yup. Looks like bash has a built-in but somewhat different version of "time" built-in. Thanks for catching it, I thought I was crazy! On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Vic Gedris wrote: > > I believe that when? you run the "time" command within bash, it's running a > built-in command.? It looks like that messes with the redirection for some > reason (maybe someone else can explain it?). > > If you run: > /usr/bin/time dd.... > You will probably get something more like you expect. > > -Vic > > Vic Gedris - http://vic.gedris.org > Toronto, Ontario, Canada - http://www.junctiontriangle.ca > > > > On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> I'm ?trying to time some commands and dump the output to a running >> log. For some reason unknown to me, the time command always seems to >> spit directly to my terminal, even when I'm redirecting stdout and >> stderr. >> >> Anyone know what's going on. For example, this should be dumping to a >> file, not my screen like... >> >> >> root at linux: ~# time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 >> >> real ? ?0m0.037s >> user ? ?0m0.000s >> sys ? ? 0m0.040s >> >> Perhaps I'm just short of caffeine and doing something incredibly >> dumb, but it doesn't seem right >> >> I checked the man-page and it says any arguments after the command >> following "time" are considered arguments of said command, so I >> thought perhaps it was interpreting it like >> >> time $( dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) >> >> In that case, I should have be able to override using... >> >> echo $( time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) >> >> >> But I get the same thing. output to the screen and nada in /tmp/foo.txt >> Anyone know what's up with this? >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 22:33:44 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 17:33:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Use and capture of the "time" command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Nov 2010, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I'm trying to time some commands and dump the output to a running > log. For some reason unknown to me, the time command always seems to > spit directly to my terminal, even when I'm redirecting stdout and > stderr. > > Anyone know what's going on. For example, this should be dumping to a > file, not my screen like... > > > root at linux: ~# time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 > > real 0m0.037s > user 0m0.000s > sys 0m0.040s > > Perhaps I'm just short of caffeine and doing something incredibly > dumb, but it doesn't seem right > > I checked the man-page and it says any arguments after the command > following "time" are considered arguments of said command, so I > thought perhaps it was interpreting it like > > time $( dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) > > In that case, I should have be able to override using... > > echo $( time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) > > > But I get the same thing. output to the screen and nada in /tmp/foo.txt > Anyone know what's up with this? x=$( (( time cd ../../../cfajohnson.com/amorasutol/image ) 2>&1) ) -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 22:55:39 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 14:55:39 -0800 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: <4CDC1FF2.3090002-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> <20101111164152.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDC1FF2.3090002@rogers.com> Message-ID: BGA seems to have been the case of a lot of premature death in various gaming consoles too. I know that a *LOT* of the 360's had GPU failures due to heat causing the chip to lose connection. You could have the chip reballed and it would work again (a temp fix was to actually overheat the unit intentionally near the GPU, causing a temporary reflow, which actually did work but fried things worse over time). I believe the PS3 had some similar issues, though not nearly as bad as the 360. For myself, I've wondered what the advantage of such a setup is VS the old "slot-and-pin" style we've come to know and love. On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 8:55 AM, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> Everything is going to BGA which is really not something >> you go replace. > > Even "J" leads, which curl under the chip can be "fun". ?I've never had > occasion to work with BGA. ?The SMT leads that extend out from the chip are > fairly easy to work with, even with over 100 of them. ?You just have to be > careful. ?The easiest way to remove one of those is to simply use a utility > knife to cut all the leads, then wipe them off the board with a soldering > iron. ?Then place the replacement in position, with a small amount of liquid > flux under the leads, and solder an opposite pair of pins and then, after > verifying the correct placement, solder the rest. ?I got to the point where > I could change one of those 100+ pin chips in about 10 minutes. ?The J lead > chips require a special removal tool that heats all the pins at the same > time. > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 23:00:22 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 15:00:22 -0800 Subject: Google search page (WAS Re:Use and capture of the "time" command) Message-ID: Just a quick question. I don't do much on the computer at home these days (too many chores), but it seems that google has been unusually slow. The previous project was actually a script that runs "curl" and times how long a page takes to load. Anyone else seeing a bunch of random slowdown in google during the daylight hours? --- Site "http://www.google.ca" --- Attempt #1: 0.16 secs Attempt #2: 7.98 secs Attempt #3: 5.35 secs Attempt #4: 2.66 secs Attempt #5: 0.26 secs On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 15 Nov 2010, Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> I'm ?trying to time some commands and dump the output to a running >> log. For some reason unknown to me, the time command always seems to >> spit directly to my terminal, even when I'm redirecting stdout and >> stderr. >> >> Anyone know what's going on. For example, this should be dumping to a >> file, not my screen like... >> >> >> root at linux: ~# time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 >> >> real ? ?0m0.037s >> user ? ?0m0.000s >> sys ? ? 0m0.040s >> >> Perhaps I'm just short of caffeine and doing something incredibly >> dumb, but it doesn't seem right >> >> I checked the man-page and it says any arguments after the command >> following "time" are considered arguments of said command, so I >> thought perhaps it was interpreting it like >> >> time $( dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) >> >> In that case, I should have be able to override using... >> >> echo $( time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) >> >> >> But I get the same thing. output to the screen and nada in /tmp/foo.txt >> Anyone know what's up with this? > > x=$( (( time cd ../../../cfajohnson.com/amorasutol/image ) 2>&1) ) > > -- > ? Chris F.A. Johnson, > ? Author: > ? Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) > ? Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 23:06:36 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:06:36 -0500 Subject: RHEL kernel patch backport [was Re: Are you running Linux as your desktop?] In-Reply-To: References: <20101021001929.19f1f815.hgibson@eol.ca> <20101113140842.d9d951c4.hgibson@eol.ca> <20101115165830.GA12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101115230636.GD12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 02:25:18PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The story is long and probably boring to most folks. But sometimes > one can learn from others travails, so here's a summary. > > My original summary "half a change" isn't accurtate enough. Even this new > summary won't be 100% accurate since I'm basing it on my decaying memory. > > My CentOS box is an old first-generation HP AMD64 box. > > > Optional boring details about my computer; skip if you feel like it: > > I bought it in 2004 or 2005 from the precursor of TechSource, > debranded and refurbished > It was probably > a customer return from a US retail store, sold off in bulk. > "Debranded" meant that the HP branding was covered up or removed > and no software was included, not even Windows. An awesomely > inexpensive way for me to get into the AMD64 world. The > motherboard was made for HP by Asus. It turns out to be a great > box: quiet and reliable. I use it as a server now, hence CentOS. > > The ACPI system allows the BIOS to export functionality to any willing > OS. This is a great idea: the original way of exporting > functionality, code entry-points accessed through INT instructions, > required that your CPU be in the stupidest mode (i.e. 16-bit mode with > no memory mapping). The way ACPI does this is to use a specified > pseudo-machine code and have each OS include an interpreter for this > machine code. Intel even provides and maintains tools for this ACPI > machine code that work in Linux and Windows (assemblers, > disassemblers, and interpreters). > > It is up to the machine maker to write/customize/maintain the ACPI > code itself that is embedded in the BIOS. Sadly, like all BIOS > functionality, most manufacturers whack on the code until MS Windows > seems to work and then never look back. It turns out that that leaves > several problems for Linux machines. > > Linux ACPI support has to deal with broken ACPI code: otherwise the > machines won't be supported. > > My machine's ACPI has a kind of breakage (I think). There are two > ways of determining the number of entries in the table that specifies > how many power states there are. By one method, all is well. By > another, there are bad entries at the end that must be ignored. No > problem: the Linux kernel's AMD64 ACPI code ignores bad entries (at > least the kind I have). > > Apparently the Linux kernel's Intel 64 ACPI code does not ignore bad > entries. At some point, some Xeon BIOSes were produced with such bad > entries. The Linux kernel hung on those machines. As a fix, the > Linux kernel folks put sanity checks in for these table entries, > common to AMD64 and Intel 64, upstream of where the control diverges. > This sanity check says: if any entry is bad, consider the whole table > to be bad. > > With the table ignored, Linux would no longer run my server at less > than full clock rate. More precisely, Linux didn't know how to change > the clock rate so it left it in the initial speed, full. > > With the kernel.org Kernel, a second change was made. Before the sanity > check was done, the length of the table was calculated to be the > lesser of the lengths yielded by the two ways of determining table > size. Since the bad entries on my machine are beyond one of these > lengths, my machine would operate as expected if this second change > were included. > > Unfortunately, RHEL only backported the first change. So my computer > does not get properly throttled on RHEL or CentOS. > > > This showed up about a year and a half ago -- 4+ years into the life > of the computer. Probably few of them are still in service running > RHEL/CentOS. > > Googling found me no other reports of this problem. > > Figuring this out took me a long time. Convincing others took me a > long time. I eventually reported it to the kernel.org Kernel bugzilla only > to have the experts come back and point out that it couldn't happen in > that kernel (due to the second change). I then took that report back > to Red Hat and that was enough to get them to finally see that there > was a problem. > > Reporting this to CentOS was worse than useless. They will not > diverge from RHEL (a good thing). But reporting and discussing did > take my time (and theirs). Red Hat seems fairly open to reports of > bugs from CentOS users. Wow. > > My CentOS bug report: > > > RHEL bz that culminated in the fix that broke my system: > > > My RHEL bz entry: > > > My kernel.org bz entry. Oops. > > Note: Zhang Rui and Bob Moore are at Intel and are kernel > developers. > > Should Red Hat backport the second change? > > - kernel patch backporting can be dangerous. Heck, my problem is an > example of that. Skilled/experienced kernel folks are already busy > so it might fall onto an inexpereinced person. > > - the current situation is only known to hurt one non-customer who > knows a work-around. True, others may experience this, but where's > the evidence? Well if it was an old HP AMD64 (probably with an ATI chipset, as HP often used that), then yeah those did tend to be quite a pain and I do remember tons of kernel patches attempting to fix those types of problems, usually not very successfully. Probably not the kind of hardware people would normally buy for business use. Fair enough then I suppose, I must admit, I am not convinced redhat's kernel choice for RHEL is the right one. Sticking with one kernel for 5 to 7 years and continuously backporting new features and drivers to it just doesn't make sense to me. Either stick with the kernel as is and say this release is for hardware that was available at release time, and newer hardware will need to use a newer releease or at least a newer kernel, or just upgrade the kernel once in a while. After all those backports can be risky, quite possibly more so than a complete new kernel would be. I think they are giving people a false sense of stability by keeping the old kernel version. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 23:09:50 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:09:50 -0500 Subject: Use and capture of the "time" command In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101115230950.GE12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 02:18:28PM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I'm trying to time some commands and dump the output to a running > log. For some reason unknown to me, the time command always seems to > spit directly to my terminal, even when I'm redirecting stdout and > stderr. > > Anyone know what's going on. For example, this should be dumping to a > file, not my screen like... > > > root at linux: ~# time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 > > real 0m0.037s > user 0m0.000s > sys 0m0.040s > > Perhaps I'm just short of caffeine and doing something incredibly > dumb, but it doesn't seem right > > I checked the man-page and it says any arguments after the command > following "time" are considered arguments of said command, so I > thought perhaps it was interpreting it like > > time $( dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) > > In that case, I should have be able to override using... > > echo $( time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000 > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 ) > > But I get the same thing. output to the screen and nada in /tmp/foo.txt > Anyone know what's up with this? Use /usr/bin/time instead. time is a bash builtin and hence not quite affected by normal shell commands. Or try: (time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=5000) > /tmp/foo.txt 2>&1 Since time is part of the subshell, the output will be part of that subshell's output and hence redirectable by your current shell. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 15 23:14:44 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:14:44 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> <20101111164152.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDC1FF2.3090002@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20101115231444.GF12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 02:55:39PM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: > BGA seems to have been the case of a lot of premature death in various > gaming consoles too. I know that a *LOT* of the 360's had GPU failures > due to heat causing the chip to lose connection. You could have the > chip reballed and it would work again (a temp fix was to actually > overheat the unit intentionally near the GPU, causing a temporary > reflow, which actually did work but fried things worse over time). I thought the xbox issue was actually bad assembly of the die to the package inside the chip, not the connection to the mainboard. Plenty of things use BGA without issues these days, so there is no reason it can't be built properly. > I believe the PS3 had some similar issues, though not nearly as bad as the 360. > For myself, I've wondered what the advantage of such a setup is VS the > old "slot-and-pin" style we've come to know and love. BGA chips take a lot less space. A 20mmx20mm chip with pins on the edge (quad pack I think they are often called), might have 250 pins. a 20mmx20mm BGA chip can easily have 800 pins in the same space since it doesn't just have pins at the edge, but under most of the chip. The first systems using the surface mount chips with pins on the edge also had issues and had people whining about why they didn't just stick with throughhole chips because you knew those worked. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 16 05:51:07 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 00:51:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: RHEL kernel patch backport [was Re: Are you running Linux as your desktop?] In-Reply-To: <20101115230636.GD12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101021001929.19f1f815.hgibson@eol.ca> <20101113140842.d9d951c4.hgibson@eol.ca> <20101115165830.GA12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101115230636.GD12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Well if it was an old HP AMD64 (probably with an ATI chipset, as HP | often used that), then yeah those did tend to be quite a pain and I do | remember tons of kernel patches attempting to fix those types of problems, | usually not very successfully. The chipset was an nVidia nForce3 150 SPP This predates ATI getting into the chipset business. | Probably not the kind of hardware people | would normally buy for business use. Fair enough then I suppose, Businesses are conservative. They didn't buy AMD64 machines at that time. | I must admit, I am not convinced redhat's kernel choice for RHEL is the | right one. Sticking with one kernel for 5 to 7 years and continuously | backporting new features and drivers to it just doesn't make sense to me. | Either stick with the kernel as is and say this release is for hardware | that was available at release time, and newer hardware will need to use | a newer releease or at least a newer kernel, or just upgrade the kernel | once in a while. After all those backports can be risky, quite possibly | more so than a complete new kernel would be. I think they are giving | people a false sense of stability by keeping the old kernel version. Red Hat's product seems to make their customers comfortable: it is the most successful commercial Linux (excluding embedded stuff for obvious reasons). Their kernel strategy is probably part of what makes their customers happy. At least they must think so: it costs them a lot to maintain. I like the stability of CentOS for some purposes. But I don't like that it is getting so stale. RHEL 6.0 is out so CentOS 6.0 ought to follow soonish. I admit that I don't have a feel for Debian. It might be as good or better than CentOS for my purposes. The closest I get is that I use Ubuntu as a sort of appliance distro: easy to pour onto a system (or use live) and slick, but somewhat clashing with my culture. I'm pretty sure that I'd like the Debian culture better. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 16 13:36:10 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:36:10 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> <20101111164152.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDC1FF2.3090002@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CE288CA.8030801@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > I believe the PS3 had some similar issues, though not nearly as bad as the 360. > For myself, I've wondered what the advantage of such a setup is VS the > old "slot-and-pin" style we've come to know and love. > The big issue is the number of leads that have to connect to the chip. There are now so many that there's not enough room around the edge of the chip for all of them. Even "through the hole" pins aren't suitable for that many leads. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 16 13:38:39 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:38:39 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: <20101115231444.GF12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> <20101111164152.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDC1FF2.3090002@rogers.com> <20101115231444.GF12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CE2895F.8010303@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The first systems using the surface mount chips with pins on the edge > also had issues and had people whining about why they didn't just stick > with throughhole chips because you knew those worked. > Some people made the same argument when transistors replaced vacuum tubes. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 16 13:32:34 2010 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:32:34 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> <20101111164152.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDC1FF2.3090002@rogers.com> Message-ID: i have a ps3 that has BGA lift. In researching it, it appears all the old original fat PS3 will die. Its certainly a defect that sony should cover, but it would break them if they admitted it. So as bad as the 360 is, not every 360 is going to die, where as all PS3 will die (the fat type). Some people are on their 3rd ones. I think after a certain amount of on off cycles then the BGA lifts. Everything i have read says the PS3 is many time worst then 360 in ultimate failure, however 360 is probably worst in soft failures and dvd head alignment issues. (check ebay for PS3 for sale that need reflows, or people offering ps3 reflow services, its unbelievable) tl On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 5:55 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > BGA seems to have been the case of a lot of premature death in various > gaming consoles too. I know that a *LOT* of the 360's had GPU failures > due to heat causing the chip to lose connection. You could have the > chip reballed and it would work again (a temp fix was to actually > overheat the unit intentionally near the GPU, causing a temporary > reflow, which actually did work but fried things worse over time). > > I believe the PS3 had some similar issues, though not nearly as bad as the 360. > For myself, I've wondered what the advantage of such a setup is VS the > old "slot-and-pin" style we've come to know and love. > > > On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 8:55 AM, James Knott wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> >>> Everything is going to BGA which is really not something >>> you go replace. >> >> Even "J" leads, which curl under the chip can be "fun". ?I've never had >> occasion to work with BGA. ?The SMT leads that extend out from the chip are >> fairly easy to work with, even with over 100 of them. ?You just have to be >> careful. ?The easiest way to remove one of those is to simply use a utility >> knife to cut all the leads, then wipe them off the board with a soldering >> iron. ?Then place the replacement in position, with a small amount of liquid >> flux under the leads, and solder an opposite pair of pins and then, after >> verifying the correct placement, solder the rest. ?I got to the point where >> I could change one of those 100+ pin chips in about 10 minutes. ?The J lead >> chips require a special removal tool that heats all the pins at the same >> time. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA > > ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 16 15:19:50 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 10:19:50 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: <4CE2895F.8010303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> <20101111164152.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDC1FF2.3090002@rogers.com> <20101115231444.GF12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CE2895F.8010303@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20101116151950.GG12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 08:38:39AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Some people made the same argument when transistors replaced vacuum > tubes. ;-) Of course, but I am not that old. Imagine the jobs lost because you didn't have to keep replacing vacuum tubes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 16 16:38:23 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 11:38:23 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: <20101116151950.GG12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> <20101111164152.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDC1FF2.3090002@rogers.com> <20101115231444.GF12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CE2895F.8010303@rogers.com> <20101116151950.GG12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CE2B37F.8090603@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Imagine the jobs lost because you didn't have to keep replacing vacuum > tubes. > Many years ago, while working in as a tech in the telecommunications industry, I often had to support tube equipment. That equipment often failed and also needed frequent alignment. Modern gear is much more compact, power efficient, powerful and reliable. You just set it up and let it run. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 16 21:59:27 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 16:59:27 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: <20101116151950.GG12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> <20101111164152.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDC1FF2.3090002@rogers.com> <20101115231444.GF12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CE2895F.8010303@rogers.com> <20101116151950.GG12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <93c3a4b07d1303e2fe7a135a7e2bda5b.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Imagine the jobs lost because you didn't have to keep replacing vacuum > tubes. > There were hundreds of little TV and radio repair shops. Schomberg, a tiny hamlet when I grew up there, had two TV repair shops. One of them was very helpful in steering leftover bits to me. From Mr. Jackson I learned that a tube amplifier needed to have a power supply to function. Every drug store had a 'tube tester', with a bunch of tubes for sale in the bottom part of the stand. Anyone moderately handy would extract the tubes from their set and take them down to be tested. Mr. Jackson provided me with my first TV, it was an enormous wooden case with a round CRT about 8 inches in diameter. If the temperature was just right, the picture would stop rolling over. It wasn't much good for entertainment (we had two TV stations with such fare as the Juliette show and Mark Kenny's Ranch.) but it was excellent for raising the temperature in my bedroom in the winter. There are still a few electronics repair shops, but they are a dying trade. I think most of them are re-employed de-lousing computers and recovering data. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 16 23:15:12 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 15:15:12 -0800 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: <4CE2B37F.8090603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> <20101111164152.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDC1FF2.3090002@rogers.com> <20101115231444.GF12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CE2895F.8010303@rogers.com> <20101116151950.GG12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CE2B37F.8090603@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 8:38 AM, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> Imagine the jobs lost because you didn't have to keep replacing vacuum >> tubes. >> > > Many years ago, while working in as a tech in the telecommunications > industry, I often had to support tube equipment. ?That equipment often > failed and also needed frequent alignment. ?Modern gear is much more > compact, power efficient, powerful and reliable. ?You just set it up and let > it run. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Modern stuff is also often comparably "cheap." An everyday computer - in addition to being incredibly powerful compared to when I first started computing - is also incredibly cheap. As such, the quality of manufacture is also quite cheap. Higher-end stuff (though price doesn't always indicate quality) still does tend to be better though... one of the good reasons to assembly stuff yourself if you can, rather than buying a prebuilt... or at least replace the inevitably crappy PSU that most stuff comes with :-) Those that complain about modern stuff being crap compared to old stuff often either have rose-coloured glasses or they're buying cheap/disposable stuff :-) -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 16 23:39:56 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 18:39:56 -0500 Subject: Cognitive Dissonance and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4CDAEF5C.9060407@gmail.com> <4CDB58E7.80201@rogers.com> <20101111164152.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CDC1FF2.3090002@rogers.com> <20101115231444.GF12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CE2895F.8010303@rogers.com> <20101116151950.GG12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CE2B37F.8090603@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Those that complain about modern stuff being crap compared to old > stuff often either have rose-coloured glasses or they're buying > cheap/disposable stuff :-) There's definitely a mix, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. Back in the "olden, golden" days, when a fancy machine might cost a million dollars, it wasn't a big deal to spend a substantial amount of money engineerinqg the case (and PSU and cables and ...). Whether we go upscale or downscale, there were some splendidly engineered pieces of hardware where that extra cost allowed making Mighty Nice cases and such. My favorite downscale example was the Digital Multia. It wasn't terribly powerful (there were effectively some design errors), but it fit a lot of nice hardware into a well-packed little box. When Russell Crook did his talk on the Sun Niagara/Rock it became pretty clear to me that Sun was going to get badly slammed on their product line. The Niagara was very interesting; a 8-way massively threading CPU on a chip. But there's a downside to having a $50K box that is powerful as what used to cost $500K - Sun can't afford, on $450K less, per box, to cover: - A fancy case - Bulletproof power - Flying out engineers to fix issues - Flying out engineers to help you install it Mind you, for $500K, you could buy 10 of them, and cover reliability by different means. But in any case, a $50K box is going to be a whole lot more "disposable" than a $500K box, and that sort of thing is likely to extend up and down the price chain. -- output = reverse("gro.mca" "@" "enworbbc") http://linuxdatabases.info/info/slony.html Rules of the Evil Overlord #18. "I will not have a son. Although his laughably under-planned attempt to usurp power would easily fail, it would provide a fatal distraction at a crucial point in time." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 17 03:22:03 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 22:22:03 -0500 Subject: Libre Graphics Magazine, first issue Message-ID: <20101117032200.GA9718@phaedrus.isageek.ca> A friend of mine is an editor of Libre Graphics Magazine and they have released their first issue. Quoting: "It's about (yes!) Free/Libre Open Source Software and the relationships that people have with their tools." Take a look, send some feedback, or feel free to post a link to other lists as well. The next issue comes out in February from what I've heard. http://libregraphicsmag.com Cheers, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 18 00:33:05 2010 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 19:33:05 -0500 Subject: Admiral Ackbar Cereal Wordpress Message-ID: <4CE47441.5090009@gmail.com> http://tmis.ca/wp/?paged=2 Admiral Ackbar/SW/Robot Chicken/Cereal I am getting a high number of comments about one particular post. The comments are from all various sources. Looks spamish. Is there a WP plugin that filters out WP comments from spam sources ? BTW, Family Guy StarWars and Robot Chicken SW are too funny. My fav is when Bobba Fett falls into the pit. Meant to do it! Are you crying man? Im ok! lol. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 18 04:54:16 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 23:54:16 -0500 Subject: Admiral Ackbar Cereal Wordpress In-Reply-To: <4CE47441.5090009-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE47441.5090009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101118045416.GA25689@yam.witteman.ca> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 07:33:05PM -0500, teddy mills wrote: >I am getting a high number of comments about one particular post. >The comments are from all various sources. Looks spamish. > >Is there a WP plugin that filters out WP comments from spam sources ? Akismet. Works like a charm. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 18 04:55:40 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 23:55:40 -0500 Subject: Admiral Ackbar Cereal Wordpress In-Reply-To: <4CE47441.5090009-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE47441.5090009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CE4B1CC.5030907@alteeve.com> On 11/17/2010 07:33 PM, teddy mills wrote: > http://tmis.ca/wp/?paged=2 > > Admiral Ackbar/SW/Robot Chicken/Cereal > > I am getting a high number of comments about one particular post. > The comments are from all various sources. Looks spamish. > > Is there a WP plugin that filters out WP comments from spam sources ? > > BTW, > Family Guy StarWars and Robot Chicken SW are too funny. > My fav is when Bobba Fett falls into the pit. > Meant to do it! Are you crying man? Im ok! lol. Do they post a link or URL in the website field? If so, it's probably link-back spam. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 18 12:12:50 2010 From: phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 07:12:50 -0500 Subject: Admiral Ackbar Cereal Wordpress In-Reply-To: <20101118045416.GA25689-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE47441.5090009@gmail.com> <20101118045416.GA25689@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <56231872-C97D-4669-930E-59E6860079C1@acm.org> On 2010-11-17, at 11:54 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 07:33:05PM -0500, teddy mills wrote: >> >> >> Is there a WP plugin that filters out WP comments from spam sources ? > > Akismet. Works like a charm. True. Also WP-Ban if you want to block recurring spam source addresses so that Akismet doesn't even see their garbage. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 18 14:25:53 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 09:25:53 -0500 Subject: Nokia CS-18 Rocket stick from Rogers In-Reply-To: References: <20100929000357.13f90917.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On 30 September 2010 12:29, Giles Orr wrote: > On 29 September 2010 01:21, Eliot Frost wrote: >> If you happen to be located in downtown Toronto, Mobilicty and Wind both >> offer unlimited plans. Mobilicty's all you can eat data is $40/month, but >> with their spotty coverage I'm not sure if it's worth it over your current >> provider. I have cell service with them, and I have to set my phone on the >> windowsill to get a decent signal in my room. YMMV, of course. > > Mobilicity's "unlimited" includes a progressive throttling as you use > more data in any given month. > > And as a head's up to the person who was going to buy a phone separate > from the phone plan: most of the time this is fine but a good friend > of mine (the same person who supplied the above info) had an Android > phone he'd ordered from the States that was evidently eating SIM > cards. ?Mobilicity was decent about it and supplied him with three or > four(!) new SIM cards, but both the phone supplier and Mobilicity > claimed the other was at fault. ?After a couple weeks of hell he > returned the phone for a refund and went with a Mobilicity-provided > phone (admittedly not quite as good a phone). ?If the phone is > provided by the same people who sell the plan, the provider _will_ fix > the problem because the problem is clearly theirs. ?But if you have > separate providers, it's far too easy to shift the blame. A friend on the list asked me about this recently, and I suddenly realized that the above mentioned friend's provider is Wind, not Mobilicity (now verified). So everything I said is accurate to the best of my knowledge ... but about Wind, not Mobilicity. My apologies for the incorrect information. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 18 15:03:21 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 10:03:21 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Event: Green Tech PC Toss In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI: ----------------------------------------------- Event: Green Tech Computer Toss Learn about recycling computers, watch a free movie, join a jam session, and donate your old used computers to be put to good use. Date: Saturday Nov 20th Time: 1:00 pm to 5:00 pm Location:51 Vine Avenue, near Keele and Dundas Description: 1:00 pm: PRESENTATION: Recycling Computers 101 2:00 pm: MOVIE: "Garbage! - The Revolution starts at home" Snacks and refreshments will be available from Toronto Dollar. 4:00 pm: Acoustic Jam Session! Drop off your OLD COMPUTERS, MONITORS, KEYBOARDS, and other COMPUTER ACCESSORIES, working or not! We will REUSE them, REFURBISH them and give them to the needy, or RECYCLE ethically. THIS IS A FREE EVENT, FREE PARKING AVAILABLE at 51 Vine Sponsored by: Free Geek Toronto and Toronto Dollar www.freegeektoronto.org www.torontodollar.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 18 21:49:41 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:49:41 -0500 Subject: OpenVPN to the U of T Network? Message-ID: <20101118214941.GA876@yam.witteman.ca> Can anyone point me to an idiot's guide to using OpenVPN, especially connecting to U of T? I have in the past installed and run the setup recommended by the University, but as far as I can tell it doesn't *do* anything except cut me off the network (I can no longer access anything on the Internet). Obviously, I am missing some aspect of understanding about the process. On a related note - my desktop is also a server; if I connect to a VPN, do I disappear from the public Internet? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 18 21:52:54 2010 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:52:54 -0500 Subject: OpenVPN to the U of T Network? In-Reply-To: <20101118214941.GA876-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101118214941.GA876@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: is it IPSEC they want? if you are active with a VPN, there is a set of routes that will denote those routes be ESP'd, everything else will go out as normal. There are some vpn clients i have seen, that as an option you can prevent all other traffic, but its an option, not the norm. tl On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 4:49 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Can anyone point me to an idiot's guide to using OpenVPN, especially > connecting to U of T? ?I have in the past installed and run the setup > recommended by the University, but as far as I can tell it doesn't *do* > anything except cut me off the network (I can no longer access anything > on the Internet). > > Obviously, I am missing some aspect of understanding about the process. > > On a related note - my desktop is also a server; if I connect to a VPN, > do I disappear from the public Internet? > -- > > yours, > > William > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFM5Z90HQtmiuz+KT8RArWWAJ9ooF3EOpJvN7dw54m4clozd7DXIACfZg3X > xkQwKCPP+MfdKJ1QXfbQ2XI= > =wLZg > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 18 22:03:32 2010 From: avolkov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Volkov) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:03:32 -0500 Subject: OpenVPN to the U of T Network? In-Reply-To: <20101118214941.GA876-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101118214941.GA876@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: It probably pushes its routing table and dns server information, which may cause problems. I configured client/server read the docs for both it would help you to at least grasp the concept. http://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/VPN_Capability_OpenVPN On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 4:49 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman < william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Can anyone point me to an idiot's guide to using OpenVPN, especially > connecting to U of T? I have in the past installed and run the setup > recommended by the University, but as far as I can tell it doesn't *do* > anything except cut me off the network (I can no longer access anything > on the Internet). > > Obviously, I am missing some aspect of understanding about the process. > > On a related note - my desktop is also a server; if I connect to a VPN, > do I disappear from the public Internet? > -- > > yours, > > William > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFM5Z90HQtmiuz+KT8RArWWAJ9ooF3EOpJvN7dw54m4clozd7DXIACfZg3X > xkQwKCPP+MfdKJ1QXfbQ2XI= > =wLZg > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 18 22:16:53 2010 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:16:53 -0500 Subject: OpenSWAN+OpenVPN In-Reply-To: <20101118214941.GA876-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101118214941.GA876@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4CE5A5D5.8020600@gmail.com> Just this week I setup some OpenSWAN IPSECs between using Ubuntu 10.10/Amazon EC2/Juniper NetScreen. Amazon said IPSEC is not supported, but we made it work. I have used OpenVPN a fair bit in the past. OpenVPN is an SSL VPN. OpenSWAN/StrongSWAN/FreeSWAN(deprecated) are true IPSEC vpns. Most VPN hardware like Cisco will only talk IPSEC. Some hardware VPNs may talk OpenVPNs language SSL/VPN. Get as much info about the right side (UofT) connection as possible. If it is a public accessible VPN, I will connect. If not, maybe someone on TLUG will want to setup some OpenVPN or OpenSWAN VPNs between A+B. Teddy On 11/18/2010 04:49 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Can anyone point me to an idiot's guide to using OpenVPN, especially > connecting to U of T? I have in the past installed and run the setup > recommended by the University, but as far as I can tell it doesn't *do* > anything except cut me off the network (I can no longer access anything > on the Internet). > > Obviously, I am missing some aspect of understanding about the process. > > On a related note - my desktop is also a server; if I connect to a VPN, > do I disappear from the public Internet? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 19 01:10:42 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:10:42 -0500 Subject: OpenVPN to the U of T Network? In-Reply-To: References: <20101118214941.GA876@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20101119011039.GA10430@phaedrus.isageek.ca> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 05:03:32PM -0500, Alex Volkov wrote: > It probably pushes its routing table and dns server information, which may > cause problems. > > I configured client/server read the docs for both it would help you to at > least grasp the concept. It is just a matter of running the utorvpn setup, point your openvpn client at the generated U of T config, and update your resolv.conf. That last part is what you are missing, try adding the nameservers manually and you should be all set (using the IPs of ns1/2/3 in resolv.conf will work, it does for me over unsecured wifi). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 19 16:06:03 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:06:03 -0500 Subject: Quick word of advice for all of you looking for a job Message-ID: I'm interviewing some people to work as developers. We had some good people and bad people, but yesterday we brought in a guy that I think it's worth of note. He clearly knew how to program. While he wasn't a genius, he could get stuff done. Either way, after some deliberation, me and my boss decided not to hire him. Why? Well, he just had a serious problem interacting with people. Part of working as a programmer in a team is discussing problems, explaining what you're doing and collaborating. He clearly couldn't do any of these things easily and would certainly become a problem really quickly. So, people, please work on your communication skills. Learn how to present and explain what you're doing and what you're trying to achieve. Be more social. Talking to people is part of the job. I made sure we brought the guy for a second interview so we could be sure of what we were doing, but he simply wouldn't work in a place with loose hierarchy and where you basically have to decide what you'll do next by yourself. This is even more important if you want to work as a freelancer/contractor, since you'll have to be your own marketing/sales department too. I think my point is that the age of the 100% socially recluse geek has forcefully come to an end. Soft skills really matter these days. (Remember I'm NOT an HR person; we only involve HR when we've already made the decision to hire.) Take care and good luck. - Fabio -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 19 17:20:07 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:20:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Are you running Linux as your desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <20101021001929.19f1f815.hgibson@eol.ca> <20101113140842.d9d951c4.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | Linux fans (like me) don't always add up the time we spend to do | things the better way. Example from last night: I wanted to put a newer release on a notebook. I chose Ubuntu 10.04 LTS because I don't want to be constantly doing this. No matter what I tried (selecting nomodeset etc.) the live CD would present me a blank screen well into booting (perhaps at the end). Probably an Intel X driver bug. This wasted perhaps an hour. So I switched to Ubuntu 10.10. This worked better. But when I tried to run gparted, it would abort. To add to the annoyance, the error reporting automation would get most of the way through and then balk. Anyway, I found an apparently matching error report, including a provisional update to gparted (not yet in the repos), installed it (on the live instance!) and was away. This wasted perhaps another hour or two. The bug gparted report is Message 68 points at a .deb that worked for me. So you can see it took a lot of reading to get to a solution (not to mention the time it took to decide that was a solution). Also: look at all the bug reports that are linked as duplicates (26 of them!). Apparently this bug was introduced by Debian, not Ubuntu, not the gparted project. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 19 17:46:01 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:46:01 -0500 Subject: Quick word of advice for all of you looking for a job In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101119174601.GA5822@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:06:03AM -0500, Fabio FZero wrote: > I think my point is that the age of the 100% socially recluse geek has > forcefully come to an end. Soft skills really matter these days. That has been the case always. Unless you're printing your own money, you always have to deal with 2 things: - "client" (ie. whoever pays you, could be your customer or boss) - "client's money" (ie. what you get paid) You have go through "client" in order to get to "money" part. :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 19 17:47:16 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:47:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Are you running Linux as your desktop? In-Reply-To: References: <20101021001929.19f1f815.hgibson@eol.ca> <20101113140842.d9d951c4.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | Message 68 points at a .deb that worked for me. Oops: Message 58. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 19 22:31:26 2010 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 17:31:26 -0500 Subject: Open Media? Message-ID: <20101119223126.GA25325@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> Hello all, This week I got a mass email from an outfit I'd never heard of - OpenMedia.ca. It was about a CRTC rule change for ISP billing and a petition at http://openmedia.ca/metre Does anyone know (of) them? Is this a legitimate group (unsolicited emails notwithstanding)? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 20 05:26:17 2010 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 00:26:17 -0500 Subject: OT: Nonprofits Review Technology Failures In-Reply-To: <4C6ABEF5.5040207-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C6ABEF5.5040207@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <01EE466B-7670-4ED6-B7B8-98C2B66EBF41@sarg.ryerson.ca> On 2010-Aug-17, at 12:55 , Mel Wilson wrote: > $1000 seems good -- you can avoid the industrial squalor pitfall at > $1000. There are other industrial pitfalls; you can read the Club > of Rome report, or you can read B. Traven (who wrote _The Treasure > of the Sierra Madre_.) In a collection called "The Night Visitor" > he published a brilliant, funny short story called _Assembly Line_ > with a Mexican peon, a visiting American businessman, and a strange, > inverting quantity-discount curve. I've already said it's > brilliant, haven't I? http://libcom.org/library/assembly-line-b-traven and it *is* brilliant ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 20 08:12:03 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 03:12:03 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: <20101119223126.GA25325-XQvu0L+U/ChdoKsW+d1WxEDMw1b21574@public.gmane.org> References: <20101119223126.GA25325@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> Message-ID: <94b3a4746b62f93171b4702aa9a2104d.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> I just watched a documentary on CBC investigating whether we have become "digital dummies"... http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/doczone/2010/digitaldummies/ ...Then the CRTC rules that ISP`s can charge per byte... http://www.cbc.ca/smartshift/2010/10/crtc-green-lights-usage-based-internet-billing.html ...So the internet will become more expensive. This would mean we use the internet less thus avoiding becoming "digital dummies". Which really is not a bad thing. But that aside I still don`t want to have to pay by the byte. I run my own email server and personal web page on my DSL connection and although I don`t have a large amount of traffic to the site or a large volume of email. The little traffic I do get would now cost me money. > Hello all, > > This week I got a mass email from an outfit I'd never heard of - > OpenMedia.ca. It was about a CRTC rule change for ISP billing and a > petition at http://openmedia.ca/metre > > Does anyone know (of) them? Is this a legitimate group (unsolicited > emails notwithstanding)? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 20 20:01:45 2010 From: ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org (Ken Heard) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:01:45 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)] Message-ID: <4CE82929.3030005@heard.name> I sent the forwarded message to tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org from my normal e-mail address ken-qoNZw2a/gFtdfMqftFriWw at public.gmane.org I am forwarded it from my gmail address in the hope that TLUG will receive it and that someone will be able to explain what it is all about and what to do about it. It is the first time I have seen anything like this. Ken Heard -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Mail Delivery System" Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) Date: 20 Nov 2010 14:53:47 -0500 Size: 5404 URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 20 21:56:32 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:56:32 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: <94b3a4746b62f93171b4702aa9a2104d.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <20101119223126.GA25325@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> <94b3a4746b62f93171b4702aa9a2104d.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <4CE84410.9080108@rogers.com> Jason Carson wrote: > But that aside I still don`t want to have to pay by the byte. I run my own > email server and personal web page on my DSL connection and although I > don`t have a large amount of traffic to the site or a large volume of > email. The little traffic I do get would now cost me money. > Actually, usage based billing has a lot in favour of it. With flat rate billing, the light user is subsidizing the heavy user. Why should someone who only reads a bit of email and does a bit of surfing pay as much as someone who's constantly downloading large files, videos etc. Perhaps a better way would be to have a separate connection fee, well below what we currently pay and then pick from a selection of data block sizes. It would also allow over use at fees that, if encountered frequently, would encourage one to go for the next size up. Throughout the history of telecom, usage based billing has been far more common than flat rate. Flat rate local phones have been pretty much unique to North America and other packet based networks, such as X.25, frame relay, ATM were typically usage based billing. However, if the ISPs decide to charge UBB on top of what we currently pay, then we'd certainly have cause to complain. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 20 22:36:17 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 17:36:17 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CE84410.9080108-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101119223126.GA25325@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> <94b3a4746b62f93171b4702aa9a2104d.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <4CE84410.9080108@rogers.com> Message-ID: <7856f3e9e307009f1bfc7928e8b02362.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> > Jason Carson wrote: >> But that aside I still don`t want to have to pay by the byte. I run my >> own >> email server and personal web page on my DSL connection and although I >> don`t have a large amount of traffic to the site or a large volume of >> email. The little traffic I do get would now cost me money. >> > Actually, usage based billing has a lot in favour of it. With flat rate > billing, the light user is subsidizing the heavy user. Why should > someone who only reads a bit of email and does a bit of surfing pay as > much as someone who's constantly downloading large files, videos etc. > Perhaps a better way would be to have a separate connection fee, well > below what we currently pay and then pick from a selection of data block > sizes. I guess I would have to see what the rates are before I support that business model. The big downloads I have are Linux ISO's and game updates. Both of which don't happen all that often but I wouldn't want to be hit with a big bill for downloading them. >It would also allow over use at fees that, if encountered > frequently, would encourage one to go for the next size up. Throughout > the history of telecom, usage based billing has been far more common > than flat rate. Flat rate local phones have been pretty much unique to > North America and other packet based networks, such as X.25, frame > relay, ATM were typically usage based billing. However, if the ISPs > decide to charge UBB on top of what we currently pay, then we'd > certainly have cause to complain. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 20 23:22:29 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 18:22:29 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CE84410.9080108-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101119223126.GA25325@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> <94b3a4746b62f93171b4702aa9a2104d.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <4CE84410.9080108@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CE85835.5040503@dinamis.com> On 11/20/2010 04:56 PM, James Knott wrote: > Actually, usage based billing has a lot in favour of it. With flat rate > billing, the light user is subsidizing the heavy user. Why should > someone who only reads a bit of email and does a bit of surfing pay as > much as someone who's constantly downloading large files, videos etc. > Perhaps a better way would be to have a separate connection fee, well > below what we currently pay and then pick from a selection of data block > sizes. It would also allow over use at fees that, if encountered > frequently, would encourage one to go for the next size up. Throughout > the history of telecom, usage based billing has been far more common > than flat rate. Flat rate local phones have been pretty much unique to > North America and other packet based networks, such as X.25, frame > relay, ATM were typically usage based billing. However, if the ISPs > decide to charge UBB on top of what we currently pay, then we'd > certainly have cause to complain. I would be happy to pay UBB if and only if I had real choice for Internet connectivity. As long as two media companies masquerading as ISPs continue to have a choke hold on the "last mile", we will not have any choice and they will succeed in ruining Internet access just like they've ruined mobile phone "service" in this country. We need to have dark fiber optic cable to the node provided by a public utility and then we'll have a choice from many providers who will be happy to sell IP and bandwidth at much more reasonable prices. If people want the "value added" services that Rogers and Bell offer, they'll pay for them. If they don't, it's obvious that there was no value being added and they'll die a well-deserved death. I'd like to see both of these companies forced out of the "last mile" business. Of course if we leave this to federal politicians, it will never happen. They'll get bogged down in discussions about how to can provide broadband access to northern communities and we'll have the perverse situation where Nunavut, with a population density of 0.015 people/sq. km., will hold up a solution for the GTA, population density 3972 people/sq. km. This is something that we need to do municipally. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 21 02:30:49 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 21:30:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CE85835.5040503-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101119223126.GA25325@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> <94b3a4746b62f93171b4702aa9a2104d.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <4CE84410.9080108@rogers.com> <4CE85835.5040503@dinamis.com> Message-ID: | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY | | I would be happy to pay UBB if and only if I had real choice for Internet | connectivity. As long as two media companies masquerading as ISPs continue to | have a choke hold on the "last mile", we will not have any choice and they | will succeed in ruining Internet access just like they've ruined mobile phone | "service" in this country. Good point. I don't mind paying something related to the cost of providing service. This is a "comodity" pricing model. True competition drives prices down to the cost of providing them. I don't like "value" pricing model, the one monopolies want to charge. In other words, monopolies want to squeeze the customers to pay as much as they are willing, which is based on the value of the service to the customer. Usage based billing could be based on either model. Clearly, we are in a monopoly regime and we are not headed out of it. And another thing: The cost of the last mile is not at all related to traffic. So UBB should not apply. The backhaul costs (from last mile to third party ISP connection point) are pretty low. So UBB should be really low. The cost from the ISP to the cloud turns out not to be very expensive (but more than the backhaul costs) so modest UBB would make sense. Note: Bell should not get very much UBB for third-party ISP customers. They could charge their own retail customers more. But competition should keep that in check. | We need to have dark fiber optic cable to the node | provided by a public utility and then we'll have a choice from many providers | who will be happy to sell IP and bandwidth at much more reasonable prices. That is the only way I see out of the monopoly regime. And it doesn't look too likely. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 21 14:48:31 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 09:48:31 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: <7856f3e9e307009f1bfc7928e8b02362.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <20101119223126.GA25325@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> <94b3a4746b62f93171b4702aa9a2104d.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <4CE84410.9080108@rogers.com> <7856f3e9e307009f1bfc7928e8b02362.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <4CE9313F.1010005@rogers.com> Jason Carson wrote: > I guess I would have to see what the rates are before I support that > business model. The big downloads I have are Linux ISO's and game updates. > Both of which don't happen all that often but I wouldn't want to be hit > with a big bill for downloading them. > Currently we have a very crude form of UBB. I'm on Rogers and have a 90 GB cap, with overage charges. It's 6 GB on my smart phone plan. However, the overage charges are punitive. It'd be better is customers had a choice of plans and then be charged enough on going over that if they do it frequently, they'd go for the next plan. Flat rates can encourage abuse. We saw that with dial up access and now with broadband. One example I read about was in Wellington NZ, where ethenet access is sold as a utility, where you pay for the desired bandwidth, and then arrange for whatever ISP you wish. http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8073?page=0,0 BTW, I have never gone over my cap on either cable or smartphone. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 21 14:57:08 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 09:57:08 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: References: <20101119223126.GA25325@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> <94b3a4746b62f93171b4702aa9a2104d.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <4CE84410.9080108@rogers.com> <4CE85835.5040503@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4CE93344.5000202@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The cost of the last mile is not at all related to traffic. So UBB > should not apply. > That's why I said a connection cost plus data > The backhaul costs (from last mile to third party ISP connection > point) are pretty low. So UBB should be really low. > It's cheap, but not free*. It also affect how much data an ISP can provide to it's customers. If an ISP finds capacity is not sufficient, then more hardware etc. has to be purchased, installed and maintained. It's in this area where UBB kicks in, rather than the "last mile". For many years, business users paid more for a basic telephone line than residential users, on the understanding that they'd use the phone more. The actual installation of a phone and cable pairs etc. would be similar for business & residential users. *In the case of wireless providers, there's also a limit on available bandwidth. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 21 14:59:30 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 09:59:30 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: References: <20101119223126.GA25325@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> <94b3a4746b62f93171b4702aa9a2104d.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <4CE84410.9080108@rogers.com> <4CE85835.5040503@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4CE933D2.2090703@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The cost of the last mile is not at all related to traffic. So UBB > should not apply. > Actually, for a share medium, such as cable or wireless, it does apply. With ADSL, you still share bandwidth at the DSLAM and beyond. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 21 23:05:06 2010 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:05:06 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Open Media? Message-ID: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net> ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: Self To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Open Media? Date sent: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:02:06 -0500 On 20 Nov 2010 at 3:12, Jason Carson wrote: > ...Then the CRTC rules that ISP`s can charge per byte... > > http://www.cbc.ca/smartshift/2010/10/crtc-green-lights-usage-based-internet-billing.html > > But that aside I still don`t want to have to pay by the byte. I run my own > email server and personal web page on my DSL connection and although I > don`t have a large amount of traffic to the site or a large volume of > email. The little traffic I do get would now cost me money. > Would this mean that an ISP can charge both the website owner and the client for the same traffic being transported across its routers? Paul ------- End of forwarded message ------- ------- End of forwarded message ------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 21 23:39:44 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:39:44 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org wrote: > Would this mean that an ISP can charge both the website owner and the > client for the same traffic being transported across its routers? > It's entirely possible that there are more than one ISP involved. The point is that bandwidth costs money, though it's a lot cheaper than it used to be. Flat rate encourages abuse. UBB doesn't. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 03:53:08 2010 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 22:53:08 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CE9ADC0.3060205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net>, <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CE9E924.23186.1D26D5DD@sciguy.vex.net> I'm not sure if you understand my question. I meant that, would the new ruling mean that both the website owner and the person who visits it be charged for the same traffic, in effect, allowing the ISP to collect revenue twice for the same bytes being transported? That would definitely sound abusive. I have no idea what you construe as abuse, apart from spam, I suppose. I get a freakin' ton of it, and I've learned to cope with it years ago, as I believe most people would have by now. Would there really be anything more compelling than spam that would cause me to sign up with an ISP that charges by the byte, and would it really get rid of all that spam that mostly comes from foreign countries? Paul On 21 Nov 2010 at 18:39, James Knott wrote: > sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Would this mean that an ISP can charge both the website owner and the > > client for the same traffic being transported across its routers? > > > It's entirely possible that there are more than one ISP involved. The > point is that bandwidth costs money, though it's a lot cheaper than it > used to be. Flat rate encourages abuse. UBB doesn't. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ NOD32 5637 (20101121) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 11:58:14 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 06:58:14 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CE9E924.23186.1D26D5DD-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net> <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> <4CE9E924.23186.1D26D5DD@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: On 21 November 2010 22:53, wrote: > I'm not sure if you understand my question. I meant that, would the new > ruling mean that both the website owner and the person who visits it be > charged for the same traffic, in effect, allowing the ISP to collect > revenue twice for the same bytes being transported? That would > definitely sound abusive. So do you feel that this is abusive for cell phones, for which this is almost always the case? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 13:01:38 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:01:38 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CE9E924.23186.1D26D5DD-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net>, <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> <4CE9E924.23186.1D26D5DD@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <4CEA69B2.7000701@rogers.com> sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'm not sure if you understand my question. I meant that, would the new > ruling mean that both the website owner and the person who visits it be > charged for the same traffic, in effect, allowing the ISP to collect > revenue twice for the same bytes being transported? That would > definitely sound abusive. > You pay for the bandwidth that you use, in either direction. There are costs to providing bandwidth within an ISP and between ISPs. > I have no idea what you construe as abuse, apart from spam, I suppose. > I get a freakin' ton of it, and I've learned to cope with it years ago, > as I believe most people would have by now. Would there really be > anything more compelling than spam that would cause me to sign up with > an ISP that charges by the byte, and would it really get rid of all > that spam that mostly comes from foreign countries? > I was thinking of those who figure they're entitled to unlimited use, when rates and service levels are based on average or typical users. This means those heavy users are subsidized by others. Why should someone who runs a busy file server pay the same as someone who has a bit of email and does a bit of surfing. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 14:11:26 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 09:11:26 -0500 Subject: Debian Testing Upgrade Problem (amd64) Message-ID: <20101122141126.GA18751@yam.witteman.ca> If you are running Debian testing on a 64-bit architecture with Flash, you may run into a conflict in a upgrade to ia32-libs, pushed last night. This updated package conflicts with ia32-libs-workaround-499043, which some may have installed to get Flash working. If this is you, here is how I resolved the issue last night: apt-get dist-upgrade FUBAR! .. much research and hunting for solutions dpkg -i --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/ia32-libs_20101117_amd64.deb apt-get -f install Works! I apologize for the long line - most of you will be using mailreaders which gracefully accept my indiscretion, and hopefully not having a line break will help out some user, somewhere. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 14:48:09 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 09:48:09 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CEA69B2.7000701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net>, <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> <4CE9E924.23186.1D26D5DD@sciguy.vex.net> <4CEA69B2.7000701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CEA82A9.7060000@gmail.com> On 11/22/2010 8:01 AM, James Knott wrote: ... > I was thinking of those who figure they're entitled to unlimited use, > when rates and service levels are based on average or typical users. > This means those heavy users are subsidized by others. Why should > someone who runs a busy file server pay the same as someone who has a > bit of email and does a bit of surfing. For years ISPs have been addressing this by offering "lite" packages. Packages which are undesirable for heavy users. The system has worked for years , we don't need the CRTC to step in and enforce a bizzare form of single-sided* collusion. * On a radio interview, the CEO of Teksavvy indicated that under this scheme, it appears that Bell pays wholesale and charges the third parties retail. To compete, third parties must pass on the retail costs and swallow the collection fees and non-payments. Bell profits are guaranteed. Third party losses are guaranteed. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 17:09:48 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 12:09:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: <20101119223126.GA25325-XQvu0L+U/ChdoKsW+d1WxEDMw1b21574@public.gmane.org> References: <20101119223126.GA25325@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> Message-ID: | From: Andrej Marjan | This week I got a mass email from an outfit I'd never heard of - | OpenMedia.ca. It was about a CRTC rule change for ISP billing and a | petition at http://openmedia.ca/metre | | Does anyone know (of) them? Is this a legitimate group (unsolicited | emails notwithstanding)? To answer your original question: I think that they are legitimate. I've not studied their positions to see if I agree with them. I know that I agree with some. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 17:34:21 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 12:34:21 -0500 Subject: Debian Testing Upgrade Problem (amd64) In-Reply-To: <20101122141126.GA18751-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101122141126.GA18751@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20101122173421.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 09:11:26AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > If you are running Debian testing on a 64-bit architecture with Flash, > you may run into a conflict in a upgrade to ia32-libs, pushed last > night. > > This updated package conflicts with ia32-libs-workaround-499043, which > some may have installed to get Flash working. If this is you, here is > how I resolved the issue last night: > > apt-get dist-upgrade > FUBAR! > .. much research and hunting for solutions > > dpkg -i --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/ia32-libs_20101117_amd64.deb > apt-get -f install > > Works! > > I apologize for the long line - most of you will be using mailreaders > which gracefully accept my indiscretion, and hopefully not having a line > break will help out some user, somewhere. Congratulations on messing up your system. Don't use --force ever. The correct answer is: dpkg -r ia32-libs-workaround-499043, which is no longer needed. -- len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 17:36:14 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 12:36:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [GW-C] Re:Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CE93344.5000202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101119223126.GA25325@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> <94b3a4746b62f93171b4702aa9a2104d.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <4CE84410.9080108@rogers.com> <4CE85835.5040503@dinamis.com> <4CE93344.5000202@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > The cost of the last mile is not at all related to traffic. So UBB | > should not apply. | > | That's why I said a connection cost plus data As you pointed out, and I neglected to, the last mile cost has some relationship to cost for some technologies: IP over cable and wireless. I was talking about / thinking about ADSL since that is where the flashpoint is. | > The backhaul costs (from last mile to third party ISP connection | > point) are pretty low. So UBB should be really low. | > | | It's cheap, but not free*. | *In the case of wireless providers, there's also a limit on available | bandwidth. In the case of wireless, I expect that the major cost is the last mile. Maintaining all those cell towers and buying the limited amount of spectrum. I could be wrong. If nothing else, UBB for wireless can be used to rationally divide divide the pie. The outrageously high cost of long distance from cell phone providers shows clearly that they are charging based on value, not cost (I explained previously what I meant by those terms). The incremental cost of providing long distance is vanishingly small these days (I get it retail for a penny or two a minute within Canada and US, including termination, from a couple of VoIP providers who make money at that rate). I've heard that the cost of the internet infrastructure goes down by a factor of 10 for each level you go closer to the core. So my guess is that backhaul cost is in the noise. | It also affect how much data an ISP can provide to | it's customers. If an ISP finds capacity is not sufficient, then more | hardware etc. has to be purchased, installed and maintained. It's in this | area where UBB kicks in, rather than the "last mile". Sure, but we're not talking about UBB from the ISP, we're talking UBB from Bell to the ISP, for the last mile + backhaul. | For many years, | business users paid more for a basic telephone line than residential users, on | the understanding that they'd use the phone more. The actual installation of a | phone and cable pairs etc. would be similar for business & residential users. That isn't my understanding. The regulatory regime decided that cross-subsidization would be good for social goals: - rural lines were heavily subsidized - businesses subsidized consumers - private line subscribers subsidized party-line customers - long distance traffic subsidized local lines (and increasingly so!) - DTMF customers subsidize pulse dial customers - (in my youth) those with coloured phones subsidized those with black phones That model kind of worked but it prevented innovation and it depended on monopoly. Any opening up of the field would allow competitors, unless similarly shackled, to cherry pick their customers. | From: James Knott | D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > The cost of the last mile is not at all related to traffic. So UBB | > should not apply. | | Actually, for a share medium, such as cable or wireless, it does apply. | With ADSL, you still share bandwidth at the DSLAM and beyond. Right. Some ISP's want to be able to colocate in the COs but I think Bell is blocking this. That makes the backhaul costs somewhat self-inflicted. But I really think that the backhaul costs are or should be vanishingly small. After all, there are rougly four orders of magnitude fewer COs than retail customers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 17:59:10 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 12:59:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: (Fwd) Re:Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CE9ADC0.3060205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net> <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org wrote: | > Would this mean that an ISP can charge both the website owner and the | > client for the same traffic being transported across its routers? | > | It's entirely possible that there are more than one ISP involved. The point | is that bandwidth costs money, though it's a lot cheaper than it used to be. | Flat rate encourages abuse. UBB doesn't. "abuse" is a loaded term (Bell uses that rhetoric way too often). Pricing should be rational and encourage rational choices by the customer. A better term might be "distortion". Distortion arises when prices don't reflect costs. If pricing reflects cost, there will be no abuse. (Of course the costs ought to be reasonable: if your system makes it expensive to provide something (say, using homing pigeons for backhaul), you should fix that first. Competition normally forces this but we're talking about a monopoly.) If there really is a cost per byte, charge that amount (plus a modest markup). Remember: Bell is rushing to be able to provide HD TV over IP. The required bandwidth is much higher than levels they are labelling abuse now. Pure guess at average subscriber use: 5 gigbytes per hour (better quality than DVD, worse than BluRay) times 4 hours a night times 30 nights in a month is 600 gigabytes per month, 10 times what they are calling abuse from their broadband customers. Note: any multicasting efficiency has no effect on the last mile since it isn't shared. Oh: and they have to pay licensing for the content in TV. Summary: if the CRTC allows Bell UBB to ISPs, then it should reflect the cost of providing backhaul, and that should be modest. I don't think that that will be what happens. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 18:15:52 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 13:15:52 -0500 Subject: Advice for a document management system In-Reply-To: <491f66a50902060608o4e30e85i109f020dd95af2ef-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <498B2C3A.6030900@linuxcaffe.ca> <20090205223658.5b7ffa09.hgibson@eol.ca> <77C08E56-CB1A-4F40-9ED7-EFB4151E4317@gmail.com> <491f66a50902060608o4e30e85i109f020dd95af2ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'm not sure if you are looking for a document management system, or a > document editing system. I found this very interesting though. > > http://www.alfresco.com/ > > Allows for collaborative editing, and management. Saw an article on this subject today that points to 7 document management systems that might be plausible: http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20101114192433367/DocumentManagementSystems.html -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 18:30:54 2010 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 13:30:54 -0500 Subject: PCI and traffic lights Message-ID: <4CEAB6DE.2020009@gmail.com> I had to enable PCI Certification on some servers. I think PCI Certification is a good idea. Security certifications like PCI Compliancy is just like traffic and traffic lights. It is not the traffic lights that make you safe, it is the lack of traffic that makes you safe. It is not PCI certification that makes you safe, it is the lack of vulnerabilities that make you safe. So I was wondering if there were some opensource scanners like OpenVAS or AlienVault or similar that can do a PCI compliant equivalent scan. They may not be certified by PCI Security Council, but if it is equivalent, it should pass the PCI tests. I don't know the best PCI Compliant Scanners. The servers get a PASS from Comodo+MacAfee PCI tests, but fail the Qualysys. I reviewed Qualysys reports and they are referring to vulnerabilities patched 5 to 7 years ago. I don't trust Qualsys yet. I think it is a lot of false positives. Teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 19:07:52 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:07:52 -0500 Subject: PCI and traffic lights In-Reply-To: <4CEAB6DE.2020009-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEAB6DE.2020009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101122190752.GI12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 01:30:54PM -0500, teddy mills wrote: > > I had to enable PCI Certification on some servers. > I think PCI Certification is a good idea. > > Security certifications like PCI Compliancy is just like traffic and > traffic lights. > It is not the traffic lights that make you safe, it is the lack of > traffic that makes you safe. > > It is not PCI certification that makes you safe, it is the lack of > vulnerabilities that make you safe. > > So I was wondering if there were some opensource scanners like OpenVAS > or AlienVault or similar > that can do a PCI compliant equivalent scan. > > They may not be certified by PCI Security Council, but if it is > equivalent, it should pass the PCI tests. > > > I don't know the best PCI Compliant Scanners. > The servers get a PASS from Comodo+MacAfee PCI tests, but fail the Qualysys. > > I reviewed Qualysys reports and they are referring to vulnerabilities > patched 5 to 7 years ago. > I don't trust Qualsys yet. I think it is a lot of false positives. I doubt you could make a scanner for that. After all a lot has to do with how you process things in order to comply with the rules. A scanner can't tell if your programmer was an idiot or not and handled things insecurely. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 19:22:10 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:22:10 -0500 Subject: PCI and traffic lights In-Reply-To: <20101122190752.GI12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEAB6DE.2020009@gmail.com> <20101122190752.GI12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CEAC2E2.3090608@dinamis.com> On 11/22/2010 02:07 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > A scanner can't tell if your programmer was an idiot or not and handled > things insecurely. Neither can the PCI scanners that I've encountered. As far as I can tell, PCI scanning is a license to print money, like being a certificate authority. Passing a PCI scan doesn't mean there aren't gaping security holes in the custom code powering the web site. It is, to use a phrase that is in vogue in another context these days, "security theatre". One such scan told us that every single PHP package the scanner detected on an updated Debian stable box we inherited when we started on the project was "insecure" and in the boilerplate report, pointed us to php.net to download PHP 6. Good thing our software had no dependencies on PHP or we'd have been in real trouble. I have no idea how anyone building e-commerce sites with PHP passes PCI scans. Our solution to pass the scan was to remove anything to do with PHP off the server, which was probably a good idea in any event. Once that was done, we were good to go. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 19:59:49 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:59:49 -0500 Subject: Debian Testing Upgrade Problem (amd64) In-Reply-To: <20101122173421.GH12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101122141126.GA18751@yam.witteman.ca> <20101122173421.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101122195949.GA20824@yam.witteman.ca> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 12:34:21PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 09:11:26AM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> If you are running Debian testing on a 64-bit architecture with Flash, >> you may run into a conflict in a upgrade to ia32-libs, pushed last >> night. >> >> This updated package conflicts with ia32-libs-workaround-499043, which >> some may have installed to get Flash working. If this is you, here is >> how I resolved the issue last night: >> >> apt-get dist-upgrade >> FUBAR! >> .. much research and hunting for solutions >> >> dpkg -i --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/ia32-libs_20101117_amd64.deb >> apt-get -f install >> >> Works! >> >> I apologize for the long line - most of you will be using mailreaders >> which gracefully accept my indiscretion, and hopefully not having a line >> break will help out some user, somewhere. > >Congratulations on messing up your system. > >Don't use --force ever. > >The correct answer is: dpkg -r ia32-libs-workaround-499043, which is no >longer needed. The "correct" answer doesn't work. Removing the now-unneeded package does not unwedge the system. The actual correct answer is for the testers in experimental and unstable to report the conflict and set the rules to sort it out - they didn't and now someone has to report a method which works. The other correct answer is to live in a work without Flash - but the web is not yet in that world. As soon as I can use the video sites without Flash, I will uninstall it. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 20:43:47 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:43:47 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Open Media? In-Reply-To: References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net> <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CEAD603.2050108@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Remember: Bell is rushing to be able to provide HD TV over IP. The > required bandwidth is much higher than levels they are labelling abuse > now. One major difference is that many people may be watching the same channel at the same time, unlike internet or phone use, where you you have unique content for each user. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 20:48:02 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:48:02 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CEAD603.2050108-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net> <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> <4CEAD603.2050108@rogers.com> Message-ID: Hi, We actually have HD TV over IP Now that people are currently using Net Flix. I use Net Flix for movies and shows and I myself am worried about the costs. Are they raising prices per usage to get rid of competition like netflix? I don't know. People don't have to run file servers but, watch tv. Net Flix is a comparable to having cable or satellite, but you don't want to use it. Does Rogers over charge for cable because there a monopoly? Does Bell over charge because they are a monopoly? Are there people saving money by not having cable and using services like netflix? On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 3:43 PM, James Knott wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> Remember: Bell is rushing to be able to provide HD TV over IP. The >> required bandwidth is much higher than levels they are labelling abuse >> now. >> > One major difference is that many people may be watching the same channel > at the same time, unlike internet or phone use, where you you have unique > content for each user. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 20:49:00 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:49:00 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Open Media? In-Reply-To: References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net> <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> <4CEAD603.2050108@rogers.com> Message-ID: The question is, will Rogers and Bell raise the prices for internet, now that people can use Services like NetFlix,Hulu PLUS and so forth, therefore conquering their competition. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 20:52:45 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:52:45 -0500 Subject: Debian Testing Upgrade Problem (amd64) In-Reply-To: <20101122195949.GA20824-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101122141126.GA18751@yam.witteman.ca> <20101122173421.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101122195949.GA20824@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20101122205245.GJ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 02:59:49PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > The "correct" answer doesn't work. Removing the now-unneeded package > does not unwedge the system. The actual correct answer is for the > testers in experimental and unstable to report the conflict and set the > rules to sort it out - they didn't and now someone has to report a > method which works. > > The other correct answer is to live in a work without Flash - but the > web is not yet in that world. As soon as I can use the video sites > without Flash, I will uninstall it. Given ia32-libs-workaround-499043 isn't a debian package, it really isn't debian's problem to fix. It was how I updated my system and I used to have that hack installed. Removing it did in fact unwedge the system just fine. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 20:55:52 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 15:55:52 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CEAD603.2050108-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net> <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> <4CEAD603.2050108@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 3:43 PM, James Knott wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> >> Remember: Bell is rushing to be able to provide HD TV over IP. ?The >> required bandwidth is much higher than levels they are labelling abuse >> now. > > One major difference is that many people may be watching the same channel at > the same time, unlike internet or phone use, where you you have unique > content for each user. But it isn't obvious to me that they'd be likely to be able to take advantage of that fact. It's only really possible if they can put little "caching servers" near the customers, and force customers to do some combination of: a) Pull only the programming that's on a cache near you b) Enforce "broadcast" by requiring that you share programming via having you and 15 other nearby customers start pulling at the same time If Bell doesn't have an "app server" layer at which to put that "sharable cache" that's near to customers (and far from the central place), then they're left with doing point-to-point transmissions for everyone, and reverting to the huge level of required bandwidth that Hugh suggests. >From what I see of the behaviours of the Bell portal software, I can't see them architecting their customer facing network to make it easy to cache reusable material. They've got too strong a set of habits surrounding buying "portal software" from other vendors and kludging such into place; that approach is totally inconsistent with running any sort of "tight" network. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 21:04:35 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:04:35 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Open Media? In-Reply-To: References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net> <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> <4CEAD603.2050108@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20101122210435.GK12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 03:55:52PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > But it isn't obvious to me that they'd be likely to be able to take > advantage of that fact. > > It's only really possible if they can put little "caching servers" > near the customers, and force customers to do some combination of: > a) Pull only the programming that's on a cache near you > b) Enforce "broadcast" by requiring that you share programming via > having you and 15 other nearby customers start pulling at the same > time > > If Bell doesn't have an "app server" layer at which to put that > "sharable cache" that's near to customers (and far from the central > place), then they're left with doing point-to-point transmissions for > everyone, and reverting to the huge level of required bandwidth that > Hugh suggests. > > From what I see of the behaviours of the Bell portal software, I can't > see them architecting their customer facing network to make it easy to > cache reusable material. They've got too strong a set of habits > surrounding buying "portal software" from other vendors and kludging > such into place; that approach is totally inconsistent with running > any sort of "tight" network. Certainly the impression I get from a quick search is that live TV is in fact multicast on FIOS TV. Bell Canada isn't the only place using FIOS. Video on demand on the other hand is not multicast by the looks of it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 21:15:42 2010 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart Russell) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:15:42 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Open Media? In-Reply-To: References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net> <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> <4CEAD603.2050108@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Are there people saving money by not having cable and using services like > netflix? Yep; we've never had cable, and only recently got a TV so we could play Wii. Netflix through the Wii - though not HD - is now pretty good. Stewart -- http://scruss.com/blog/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Lmt0BfyYGMw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 22:23:10 2010 From: sciguy-Lmt0BfyYGMw at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Lmt0BfyYGMw at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:23:10 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: References: <4CE9A5A2.32383.1C1F23F7@sciguy.vex.net> <4CE9ADC0.3060205@rogers.com> <4CE9E924.23186.1D26D5DD@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <7be52cd1985a87303c787b1df7bd8639.squirrel@mail.vex.net> Absolutely. That's why I despise using cell phones. But cell phones have bytes going back and forth in nearly equal amounts. I was referring to the Internet, where bytes are only going one way, for the most part. > On 21 November 2010 22:53, wrote: >> I'm not sure if you understand my question. I meant that, would the new >> ruling mean that both the website owner and the person who visits it be >> charged for the same traffic, in effect, allowing the ISP to collect >> revenue twice for the same bytes being transported? That would >> definitely sound abusive. > > So do you feel that this is abusive for cell phones, for which this is > almost always the case? > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 23 05:42:54 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:42:54 -0500 Subject: OT: openoffice - embed spreadsheet w/ *#$! grid lines!!! Message-ID: Hi folks, In hte last 12-hour stretch of a $200K grant application and trying to get a fricking calc spreadsheet to embed properly in a writer document. I can get the datea there easily enough: select range in calc. copy. change focus to write document. paste. Now I have the OLE object, looking perfect but NO GRID LINES!! and as far as I can tell theres seems to be no way around this. Does anyone else have a hint? tyring to use DDE instead gives me veyr ugly results. gaah! help! thanks, matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 23 07:45:45 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:45:45 -0500 Subject: OT: openoffice - embed spreadsheet w/ *#$! grid lines!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CEB7129.8020600@gmail.com> On 11/23/2010 12:42 AM, Matt Price wrote: > Hi folks, > > In hte last 12-hour stretch of a $200K grant application and trying to > get a fricking calc spreadsheet to embed properly in a writer document. > > I can get the datea there easily enough: > > select range in calc. copy. > > change focus to write document. paste. > > Now I have the OLE object, looking perfect but NO GRID LINES!! and as > far as I can tell theres seems to be no way around this. Does anyone > else have a hint? tyring to use DDE instead gives me veyr ugly > results. gaah! help! The grid lines wouldn't show in Calc if you printed, and Writer is WYSIWYG, so it's the behaviour I would expect. If I wanted grid lines, I'd highlight the area in Writer, right-click and hit "format cells", specify a border thickness and a line arrangement of "set outer border and all inner lines". -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 23 08:56:03 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 03:56:03 -0500 Subject: OT: openoffice - embed spreadsheet w/ *#$! grid lines!!! In-Reply-To: <4CEB7129.8020600-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEB7129.8020600@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 2:45 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: > On 11/23/2010 12:42 AM, Matt Price wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > > In hte last 12-hour stretch of a $200K grant application and trying to > > get a fricking calc spreadsheet to embed properly in a writer document. > > > > I can get the datea there easily enough: > > > > select range in calc. copy. > > > > change focus to write document. paste. > > > > Now I have the OLE object, looking perfect but NO GRID LINES!! and as > > far as I can tell theres seems to be no way around this. Does anyone > > else have a hint? tyring to use DDE instead gives me veyr ugly > > results. gaah! help! > > The grid lines wouldn't show in Calc if you printed, and Writer is > WYSIWYG, so it's the behaviour I would expect. > > If I wanted grid lines, I'd highlight the area in Writer, right-click > and hit "format cells", specify a border thickness and a line > arrangement of "set outer border and all inner lines". > > ah. tht did it. and it was so simple... thanks, m i think i was fooled b/c i have 'print gririd lines' set to yes somewhere in the optinions. m > -Mike > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 23 17:09:30 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:09:30 -0500 Subject: Making disc images Message-ID: <20101123170930.GA30329@yam.witteman.ca> I have to set up ten Acer netbooks, with Windows XP (sorry) and software and correct configuration, and I hoped that rather than setting up each machine manually I could configure one the way I like it and then clone the disk on the other machines. Has anyone got a tutorial and a set of software that they would recommend for this purpose? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 23 17:23:01 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:23:01 -0500 Subject: Making disc images In-Reply-To: <20101123170930.GA30329-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101123170930.GA30329@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4CEBF875.1070906@alteeve.com> On 11/23/2010 12:09 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have to set up ten Acer netbooks, with Windows XP (sorry) and software > and correct configuration, and I hoped that rather than setting up each > machine manually I could configure one the way I like it and then clone > the disk on the other machines. > > Has anyone got a tutorial and a set of software that they would > recommend for this purpose? Thanks. If you've got access to Microsoft's (forgot the name, network for resellers), they have, I believe, a tool for creating custom installation media. It would allow you to customize everything and then just prompt for the OS license key and user accounts. Sorry I can't be more specific. I've seen it, but never used it. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 23 17:36:37 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:36:37 -0500 Subject: Making disc images In-Reply-To: <20101123170930.GA30329-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101123170930.GA30329@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4CEBFBA5.4090902@dinamis.com> On 11/23/2010 12:09 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have to set up ten Acer netbooks, with Windows XP (sorry) and software > and correct configuration, and I hoped that rather than setting up each > machine manually I could configure one the way I like it and then clone > the disk on the other machines. > > Has anyone got a tutorial and a set of software that they would > recommend for this purpose? Thanks. I've used Unattended , though it's not an imaging technology. Since you have identical machines, imaging technology should work. I've heard of but never used Acronis for this. It's worthwhile learning to use Unattended if you anticipate having to do such installations for other machines since you can script those installations, too. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 23 17:47:41 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:47:41 -0500 Subject: Making disc images In-Reply-To: <20101123170930.GA30329-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101123170930.GA30329@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20101123174741.GL12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:09:30PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have to set up ten Acer netbooks, with Windows XP (sorry) and software > and correct configuration, and I hoped that rather than setting up each > machine manually I could configure one the way I like it and then clone > the disk on the other machines. > > Has anyone got a tutorial and a set of software that they would > recommend for this purpose? Thanks. I haven't done it, but maybe partimage would do it well. Package: partimage Priority: optional Section: admin Installed-Size: 964 Maintainer: Michael Biebl Architecture: powerpc Version: 0.6.8-1 Depends: libbz2-1.0, libc6 (>= 2.4), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.2.1), libnewt0.52, libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1), libslang2 (>= 2.0.7-1), libssl0.9.8 (>= 0.9.8f-5), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.3.3.dfsg) Conflicts: partimage-doc (<= 20020126-6), partimage-server (<< 0.6.0) Filename: pool/main/p/partimage/partimage_0.6.8-1_powerpc.deb Size: 298160 MD5sum: 809f02bd75afd10c70c6ea199bbeb0f9 SHA1: 208e9ac2da5c75487f8544121f4909ecc69933c7 SHA256: 71abccf42fd4493f68510b7dd5c715c1842ae89f5de538dbf31a55679bf10b99 Description: backup partitions into a compressed image file Partition Image is a partition imaging utility. It has support for the following file systems: * Ext2/3, the Linux standard * ReiserFS, a journalised and powerful file system * FAT16/32, DOS and Windows file systems * HPFS, IBM OS/2 file system * JFS, journalised file system, from IBM, used on AIX * XFS, another journalised and efficient file system, from SGI, used on Irix * UFS (beta), Unix file system * HFS (beta), MacOS File system * NTFS (experimental), Windows NT, 2000 and XP Only used blocks are copied and stored into an image file. The image file can be compressed in the GZIP/BZIP2 formats to save disk space, and split into multiple files to be copied onto removable media (ZIP for example), burned on a CD-R, etc. . This makes it possible to save a full Linux/Windows system with a single operation. In case of a problem (virus, crash, error, etc.), you just have to restore, and after several minutes, your entire system is restored (boot, files, etc.), and fully working. . This is very useful when installing the same software on many machines: just install one of them, create an image, and restore the image on all other machines. Homepage: http://www.partimage.org -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 23 18:06:29 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 13:06:29 -0500 Subject: Making disc images In-Reply-To: <20101123174741.GL12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101123170930.GA30329@yam.witteman.ca> <20101123174741.GL12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 23 November 2010 12:47, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:09:30PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> I have to set up ten Acer netbooks, with Windows XP (sorry) and software >> and correct configuration, and I hoped that rather than setting up each >> machine manually I could configure one the way I like it and then clone >> the disk on the other machines. >> >> Has anyone got a tutorial and a set of software that they would >> recommend for this purpose? ?Thanks. > > I haven't done it, but maybe partimage would do it well. > > Package: partimage > Priority: optional > Section: admin > Installed-Size: 964 > Maintainer: Michael Biebl > Architecture: powerpc > Version: 0.6.8-1 > Depends: libbz2-1.0, libc6 (>= 2.4), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.2.1), libnewt0.52, libpam0g (>= 0.99.7.1), libslang2 (>= 2.0.7-1), libssl0.9.8 (>= 0.9.8f-5), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.3.3.dfsg) > Conflicts: partimage-doc (<= 20020126-6), partimage-server (<< 0.6.0) > Filename: pool/main/p/partimage/partimage_0.6.8-1_powerpc.deb > Size: 298160 > MD5sum: 809f02bd75afd10c70c6ea199bbeb0f9 > SHA1: 208e9ac2da5c75487f8544121f4909ecc69933c7 > SHA256: 71abccf42fd4493f68510b7dd5c715c1842ae89f5de538dbf31a55679bf10b99 > Description: backup partitions into a compressed image file > ?Partition Image is a partition imaging utility. It has support for the > ?following file systems: > ?* Ext2/3, the Linux standard > ?* ReiserFS, a journalised and powerful file system > ?* FAT16/32, DOS and Windows file systems > ?* HPFS, IBM OS/2 file system > ?* JFS, journalised file system, from IBM, used on AIX > ?* XFS, another journalised and efficient file system, from SGI, used on Irix > ?* UFS (beta), Unix file system > ?* HFS (beta), MacOS File system > ?* NTFS (experimental), Windows NT, 2000 and XP > ?Only used blocks are copied and stored into an image file. > ?The image file can be compressed in the GZIP/BZIP2 formats to save disk space, > ?and split into multiple files to be copied onto removable media (ZIP for > ?example), burned on a CD-R, etc. > ?. > ?This makes it possible to save a full Linux/Windows system with a single > ?operation. In case of a problem (virus, crash, error, etc.), you just have > ?to restore, and after several minutes, your entire system is restored > ?(boot, files, etc.), and fully working. > ?. > ?This is very useful when installing the same software on many machines: just > ?install one of them, create an image, and restore the image on all other > ?machines. > Homepage: http://www.partimage.org I've used partimage for both Linux and Windows partitions and it worked well. One thing to keep in mind when cloning Windows is that it does use some unique identifiers (the only ones that come to mind right now are the IP address if you're not using DHCP and the Windows license number) that need to be changed by hand on each install. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 23 18:35:03 2010 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 13:35:03 -0500 Subject: Making disc images In-Reply-To: <20101123170930.GA30329-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101123170930.GA30329@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4CEC0957.5060008@the-wire.com> On 10-11-23 12:09 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have to set up ten Acer netbooks, with Windows XP (sorry) and software > and correct configuration, and I hoped that rather than setting up each > machine manually I could configure one the way I like it and then clone > the disk on the other machines. > > Has anyone got a tutorial and a set of software that they would > recommend for this purpose? Thanks. I've used Clonezilla for this, and it's worked well, and seems fairly easy to use. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 23 19:50:50 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 14:50:50 -0500 Subject: Making disc images In-Reply-To: <4CEC0957.5060008-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101123170930.GA30329@yam.witteman.ca> <4CEC0957.5060008@the-wire.com> Message-ID: We use clonezilla at work too. Infact, we have a pxe image on our build network that we use to deploy desktops via clonezilla. On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > On 10-11-23 12:09 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> >> I have to set up ten Acer netbooks, with Windows XP (sorry) and software >> and correct configuration, and I hoped that rather than setting up each >> machine manually I could configure one the way I like it and then clone >> the disk on the other machines. >> >> Has anyone got a tutorial and a set of software that they would >> recommend for this purpose? ?Thanks. > > I've used Clonezilla for this, and it's worked > well, and seems fairly easy to use. > > ? ? ? ?Mel. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mccuddendan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 24 00:40:46 2010 From: mccuddendan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dan McCudden) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 19:40:46 -0500 Subject: Missing icons Message-ID: <-8742832369494812338@unknownmsgid> I have a Dell d610 with Ubuntu 10.04 on and I have lost my network and battery icons. I have no idea how to fix this and I have no way to go online with this laptop as of now. I am extremely frustrated and just want the damn thing to work right without me having to type 10 pages of code in terminal. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 24 03:29:16 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:29:16 -0500 Subject: Open Media? In-Reply-To: <4CE93344.5000202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101119223126.GA25325@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> <94b3a4746b62f93171b4702aa9a2104d.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <4CE84410.9080108@rogers.com> <4CE85835.5040503@dinamis.com> <4CE93344.5000202@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CEC868C.8070809@dinamis.com> On 11/21/2010 09:57 AM, James Knott wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> The cost of the last mile is not at all related to traffic. So UBB >> should not apply. > That's why I said a connection cost plus data > >> The backhaul costs (from last mile to third party ISP connection >> point) are pretty low. So UBB should be really low. > > It's cheap, but not free*. It also affect how much data an ISP can > provide to it's customers. If an ISP finds capacity is not sufficient, > then more hardware etc. has to be purchased, installed and maintained. > It's in this area where UBB kicks in, rather than the "last mile". For > many years, business users paid more for a basic telephone line than > residential users, on the understanding that they'd use the phone more. > The actual installation of a phone and cable pairs etc. would be similar > for business & residential users. > > *In the case of wireless providers, there's also a limit on available > bandwidth. All this is largely irrelevant in the context of the problem at hand, which is that we have an duopoly consisting of Rogers and Bell that have a vested interest in protecting their broken business model. The CRTC had directed both companies to open their networks to resellers. Those networks have been and continue to be subsidized with public funds. For reasons that I don't understand, Rogers has been able to get away with defying that directive for a long time but there was at least the illusion of competition in the DSL space on the Bell network. Bell started turning the screws on their wholesale resellers and (mis)treated them exactly the same way they were (mis)treating their own retail customers, by doing deep-packet inspection and traffic-shaping ostensibly to protect their network from "bandwidth hogs". The impact of those so-called bandwidth hogs on the network, according to credible documents I've read (but can't find right now), was essentially nil. Within weeks of implementing DPI and bemoaning how the "bandwidth hogs" were supposedly saturating their network, Bell announced BellTV. The latest CRTC ruling effectively kills any semblance of competition because Bell gets to charge *retail* rates to their wholesalers. It's a sure-fire losing proposition for the wholesalers. Before this UBB nonsense, if a wholesaler/reseller like TekSavvy, wanted to offer packages that differed in terms of data transfer, or even "unlimited" packages, they could do so. They were responsible for the bandwidth charges at wholesale rates and apparently, their cost structure was low enough that they could still make a profit. Bell certainly wasn't losing money on their resellers. It's not like the reseller were stealing the bandwidth. They contracted and paid for it. If they didn't pay, they were cut off and out of business. The real problem wasn't that Bell lost money on the resellers. The real problem was and remains that both Bell and Rogers are deathly afraid of torrents, Netflix, Hulu, Google TV, Apple TV, and other such services that will eventually appear because they represent a huge threat to their cash cow, cable and satellite TV, respectively. The only people who will eventually continue paying $60/month for a bunch of channels that they don't watch or care about when they could in effect create their own "package" by using one or more of the preceding are those who value the convenience of someone else aggregating the content for them or are too befuddled by all this newfangled computer stuff to move away from old school cable TV. For some subset of the population, even satellite TV might represent too big a technological leap. We've seen what competition has done for telephone service. Bell still remains stupidly expensive while there are a host of competitive offerings ranging from the absurd "deals" like Rogers Home Phone to cheap and cheerful offerings from various smaller VOIP providers. Unless we have that kind of competition in the ISP market, Canada is doomed to be more of a backwater than it already is for Internet service. In more than a few places around the world, you can get "triple play" service (Internet, IPTV, VOIP) for ~$70/month and you can be sure they're not talking about faux "broadband" that is 10M/down, 512k/up with a stupid 60GB transfer cap. They get 100M bi-directional service. In some places, the next step is Gigabit service. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 22 01:54:26 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 20:54:26 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)] In-Reply-To: <4CE82929.3030005-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE82929.3030005@heard.name> Message-ID: <51976bbbbe168065162672c54ebf39f4.squirrel@www.jasoncarson.ca> I believe Sadiq had the same error using Google Apps about a month ago and solved it by using the following SPF entry (It's all one line)... v=spf1 a mx ptr mx:ALT1.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM mx:ALT2.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM mx:ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM mx:ASPMX2.GOOGLEMAIL.COM mx:ASPMX3.GOOGLEMAIL.COM -all ...check the archives from about a month ago and you should find the thread. GoDaddy has some help here... http://help.godaddy.com/article/5783 Jason > I sent the forwarded message to tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org from my normal e-mail > address ken-qoNZw2a/gFtdfMqftFriWw at public.gmane.org I am forwarded it from my gmail address in the > hope that TLUG will receive it and that someone will be able to explain > what it is all about and what to do about it. It is the first time I > have seen anything like this. > > Ken Heard > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 25 04:38:31 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 23:38:31 -0500 Subject: Missing icons In-Reply-To: <-8742832369494812338@unknownmsgid> References: <-8742832369494812338@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Dan McCudden wrote: > I have a Dell d610 with Ubuntu 10.04 on and I have lost my network and > battery icons. I have no idea how to fix this and I have no way to go > online with this laptop as of now. I am extremely frustrated and just > want the damn thing to work right without me having to type 10 pages > of code in terminal. I don't use Ubuntu, or a laptop for that matter, so not sure how to help specifically, but one thing you might want to try is Ubuntus' support forums which are linked here: http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community You can also find live chat support there if that is to your liking. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mccuddendan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 25 04:40:49 2010 From: mccuddendan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dan McCudden) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 23:40:49 -0500 Subject: Missing icons In-Reply-To: References: <-8742832369494812338@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <-5475740443198681056@unknownmsgid> Thanks, I tried them already. They were a bit cryptic for a novice like me. I just installed Ubuntu 10.10 and that fixed it. Rather like demolishing a building to fix one room but whatever. On 2010-11-24, at 11:39 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Dan McCudden wrote: >> I have a Dell d610 with Ubuntu 10.04 on and I have lost my network and >> battery icons. I have no idea how to fix this and I have no way to go >> online with this laptop as of now. I am extremely frustrated and just >> want the damn thing to work right without me having to type 10 pages >> of code in terminal. > > I don't use Ubuntu, or a laptop for that matter, so not sure how to > help specifically, but one thing you might want to try is Ubuntus' > support forums which are linked here: > > http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community > > You can also find live chat support there if that is to your liking. > > -- > TBM > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexgabriel-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 25 11:36:28 2010 From: alexgabriel-CzeTG9NwML0 at public.gmane.org (Alex Gabriel) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 11:36:28 +0000 Subject: Missing icons Message-ID: <955797090-1290684988-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1723139680-@bda695.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I think what you were missing was the indicator applet. If it happens again where they are removed right click the panel, select add to panel, then select the indicator applet. ------Original Message------ From: Dan McCudden Sender: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org ReplyTo: tlug at ss.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Missing icons Sent: Nov 24, 2010 11:40 PM Thanks, I tried them already. They were a bit cryptic for a novice like me. I just installed Ubuntu 10.10 and that fixed it. Rather like demolishing a building to fix one room but whatever. On 2010-11-24, at 11:39 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Dan McCudden wrote: >> I have a Dell d610 with Ubuntu 10.04 on and I have lost my network and >> battery icons. I have no idea how to fix this and I have no way to go >> online with this laptop as of now. I am extremely frustrated and just >> want the damn thing to work right without me having to type 10 pages >> of code in terminal. > > I don't use Ubuntu, or a laptop for that matter, so not sure how to > help specifically, but one thing you might want to try is Ubuntus' > support forums which are linked here: > > http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community > > You can also find live chat support there if that is to your liking. > > -- > TBM > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Alex Gabriel Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 25 18:27:23 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:27:23 -0500 Subject: Moving an HD from one comp to another In-Reply-To: <1f13df281001070836p598cf51fje487e936b8cef927-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df281001060849j1fc0829ahbcf5fa626da1f26c@mail.gmail.com> <20100106171723.GG8606@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df281001070836p598cf51fje487e936b8cef927@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >> USB is slow and very cpu intensive compared to pretty much any other >> interface you could connect a disk to. >> >> firewire, SATA, UDMA IDE, etc all have DMA to offload the cpU. >> >> Given netbooks usually use atom CPUs, you don't have much cpu available >> to begin with. ?Also 1.8" disks are generally rather slow compared to >> bigger disks. ?Also the SSD has the advantage of no access time to worry >> about, while a 1.8" disk will have a rather long access time because of >> the low rotation speed. > > I've always known that USB caused very high CPU loads. ?Now I know why > - thanks. ?As I said - it's slow, but tolerable so I'll probably > continue to use it. ?It's a trade-off I'm willing to make. How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Was very grateful to learn this when it was posted a while back. Explained why whenever I am offloading some data from the server to an USB drive, it always tend to trigger high load nagios alert. Its even odd that USB 2 using polling instead on interrupts That said, it looks like they have fixed both the lack of DMA and interrupts with USB 3. I have just scanned through USB 3 specification and I wonder if I got this fact right William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 25 23:32:33 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 18:32:33 -0500 Subject: Moving an HD from one comp to another In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df281001060849j1fc0829ahbcf5fa626da1f26c@mail.gmail.com> <20100106171723.GG8606@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df281001070836p598cf51fje487e936b8cef927@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101125233233.GM12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 01:27:23PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > Was very grateful to learn this when it was posted a while back. > Explained why whenever I am offloading some data from the server to an > USB drive, it always tend to trigger high load nagios alert. Its even > odd that USB 2 using polling instead on interrupts > > That said, it looks like they have fixed both the lack of DMA and > interrupts with USB 3. I have just scanned through USB 3 > specification and I wonder if I got this fact right I would hope so. I highly doubt they could pull off 4.8Gbit/s without DMA. For USB1 it was OK. For USB2 it was a crappy design choice (Firewire already had DMA done right which is why 400 and 800Mbit/s firewire works great with very little CPU load). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 25 23:51:04 2010 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 15:51:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Quick word of advice for all of you looking for a job In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <620897.14422.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> That is, assuming employers are good communicators. EK --- On Fri, 11/19/10, Fabio FZero wrote: > From: Fabio FZero > Subject: [TLUG]: Quick word of advice for all of you looking for a job > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Friday, November 19, 2010, 11:06 AM > I'm interviewing some people to work > as developers. We had some good > people and bad people, but yesterday we brought in a guy > that I think > it's worth of note. > > He clearly knew how to program. While he wasn't a genius, > he could get > stuff done. Either way, after some deliberation, me and my > boss > decided not to hire him. > > Why? Well, he just had a serious problem interacting with > people. Part > of working as a programmer in a team is discussing > problems, > explaining what you're doing and collaborating. He clearly > couldn't do > any of these things easily and would certainly become a > problem really > quickly. > > So, people, please work on your communication skills. Learn > how to > present and explain what you're doing and what you're > trying to > achieve. Be more social. Talking to people is part of the > job. I made > sure we brought the guy for a second interview so we could > be sure of > what we were doing, but he simply wouldn't work in a place > with loose > hierarchy and where you basically have to decide what > you'll do next > by yourself. > > This is even more important if you want to work as a > freelancer/contractor, since you'll have to be your own > marketing/sales department too. > > I think my point is that the age of the 100% socially > recluse geek has > forcefully come to an end. Soft skills really matter these > days. > > (Remember I'm NOT an HR person; we only involve HR when > we've already > made the decision to hire.) > > Take care and good luck. > > - Fabio > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 07:16:42 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 02:16:42 -0500 Subject: ups power supply Message-ID: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> I am considering purchasing a ups power supply, I have 2 box with 2 monitors, once it CRT, the other is a LCD. I want to spend at most $100, and really need it to protect my system from sudden power loss. I just need enough time to be able to shut down the system properly, 20 min max running off battery. Is anyone here using a UPS, do you have any suggestions? Thanks! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 12:01:45 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 07:01:45 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <4CEF5EDA.3080205-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 26 November 2010 02:16, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I just need enough time to be able to shut down the system properly, > 20 min max running off battery. If you get one that can be monitored and controlled by Network UPS Tools (NUT), you can have all your systems run until the UPS reports that the battery is nearly exhausted and then shutdown automatically. This way, if you just want time for a proper shutdown, you could get away with one that only has a 5 or 10 minute capacity. -- Scott -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 12:35:04 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 07:35:04 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <4CEF5EDA.3080205-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 26 November 2010 02:16, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I am considering purchasing a ups power supply, I have 2 box with 2 > monitors, once it CRT, the other is a LCD. I want to spend at most $100, and > really need it to protect my system from sudden power loss. I just need > enough time to be able to shut down the system properly, 20 min max running > off battery. > > Is anyone here using a UPS, do you have any suggestions? I think your specs are way too high for the money you're willing to spend. For $50-80 you'll generally get a UPS that will support one box without wall power for 10-15 minutes - and that's with an LCD monitor. CRTs draw three times the power that LCDs do (generally around 65w as opposed to 20w). Standard desktop boxes will draw anywhere from 60w to 100w ... possibly more if you have a P4? If you don't have more money, I would suggest picking one machine to designate "critical," attach the LCD and the UPS to it, and save frequently on the other machine. I've found that with EXT3, crashes pretty much never result in filesystem problems: it's been a huge improvement on EXT2. And don't, whatever you do, hook a laser printer to your UPS: their start-up draw will break anything but an industrial size UPS. Even when wall power is on. Good luck. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 13:40:17 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 08:40:17 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <4CEF5EDA.3080205-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CEFB8C1.1080605@rogers.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Is anyone here using a UPS, do you have any suggestions? Use one UPS per computer. That way, you can easily set it up to tell the computer to shut down. Also, while you can use the UPS for a LCD display, CRT monitors draw a lot more power and shouldn't be on the UPS. Of course, the more you have plugged into a UPS the shorter time it'll last. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 16:37:25 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:37:25 -0500 Subject: Making disc images In-Reply-To: <20101123170930.GA30329-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101123170930.GA30329@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20101126163725.GA31903@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:09:30PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >I have to set up ten Acer netbooks, with Windows XP (sorry) and software >and correct configuration, and I hoped that rather than setting up each >machine manually I could configure one the way I like it and then clone >the disk on the other machines. > >Has anyone got a tutorial and a set of software that they would >recommend for this purpose? Thanks. I looked at all the solutions suggested - thanks - and went with clonezilla. I used the unetbootin tool to create a clonezilla (which uses partimage) bootable USB stick, and was able to make a clone of my example machine relatively painlessly - reading and writing to and from an NTFS-formatted USB drive without difficulties. I am impressed and pleased. Just running the install and updates on the example machine took several hours, not including cruft removal and software installation, but restoring the image to a new machine tool less than half an hour. Thanks again! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 16:56:31 2010 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:56:31 -0500 Subject: Making disc images In-Reply-To: <20101126163725.GA31903-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101123170930.GA30329@yam.witteman.ca> <20101126163725.GA31903@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4CEFE6BF.8000308@the-wire.com> On 10-11-26 11:37 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: [ ... ] > I looked at all the solutions suggested - thanks - and went with > clonezilla. I used the unetbootin tool to create a clonezilla (which > uses partimage) bootable USB stick, and was able to make a clone of my > example machine relatively painlessly - reading and writing to and from > an NTFS-formatted USB drive without difficulties. I am impressed and > pleased. > > Just running the install and updates on the example machine took several > hours, not including cruft removal and software installation, but > restoring the image to a new machine tool less than half an hour. On our first try with USB sticks we couldn't get our Mini-ITX board to boot, so we punted and left our Clonezilla images on an NFS server on the LAN. I'll take a look at unetbootin and see if we can get farther. Many thanks for your follow-up. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 17:34:10 2010 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:34:10 -0500 Subject: PDA for Linux admin Message-ID: <4CEFEF92.3080300@gmail.com> I am not up to date on PDAs. I would like a PDA that has Basic phone services IMAP/Email SSH terminal client with functional keyboard Basic web browser Internet/Email/Web/Remote/SSH is far more important to me than any Phone service. If I have to compromise on the PDA, I think a netbook+WIMAX card would be best. Using a Kindle3/web browser/ShellinaBox may work, but keyboard would be difficult to use and I would have to find a wireless hotspot all the time. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 17:36:16 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:36:16 -0500 Subject: PDA for Linux admin In-Reply-To: <4CEFEF92.3080300-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEFEF92.3080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CEFF010.10603@alteeve.com> On 11/26/2010 12:34 PM, teddy mills wrote: > > I am not up to date on PDAs. > > I would like a PDA that has > > Basic phone services > IMAP/Email > SSH terminal client with functional keyboard > Basic web browser > > > Internet/Email/Web/Remote/SSH is far more important to me than any Phone > service. > > If I have to compromise on the PDA, > I think a netbook+WIMAX card would be best. > > Using a Kindle3/web browser/ShellinaBox may work, > but keyboard would be difficult to use and I would have to find a > wireless hotspot all the time. I've used my Nexus One for ssh several times. It's not as good as a computer, obviously, but it certainly did the job. ConnectBot is the Android tool you want. Could probably connect to a USB keyboard, if you wanted. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 17:41:10 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:41:10 -0500 Subject: PDA for Linux admin In-Reply-To: <4CEFF010.10603-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEFEF92.3080300@gmail.com> <4CEFF010.10603@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4CEFF136.1000105@alteeve.com> On 11/26/2010 12:36 PM, Digimer wrote: > I've used my Nexus One for ssh several times. It's not as good as a > computer, obviously, but it certainly did the job. ConnectBot is the > Android tool you want. Could probably connect to a USB keyboard, if you > wanted. s/usb/bluetooth/ -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 17:41:44 2010 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:41:44 -0500 Subject: PDA for Linux admin In-Reply-To: <4CEFF010.10603-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEFEF92.3080300@gmail.com> <4CEFF010.10603@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Along similar lines as the Nexus One, the Samsung Galaxy Tab could be handy for this. Really, there are a lot of Android based tablets on the market that could work. -jason On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 11/26/2010 12:34 PM, teddy mills wrote: > >> >> I am not up to date on PDAs. >> >> I would like a PDA that has >> >> Basic phone services >> IMAP/Email >> SSH terminal client with functional keyboard >> Basic web browser >> >> >> Internet/Email/Web/Remote/SSH is far more important to me than any Phone >> service. >> >> If I have to compromise on the PDA, >> I think a netbook+WIMAX card would be best. >> >> Using a Kindle3/web browser/ShellinaBox may work, >> but keyboard would be difficult to use and I would have to find a >> wireless hotspot all the time. >> > > I've used my Nexus One for ssh several times. It's not as good as a > computer, obviously, but it certainly did the job. ConnectBot is the Android > tool you want. Could probably connect to a USB keyboard, if you wanted. > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 17:55:59 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:55:59 -0500 Subject: PDA for Linux admin In-Reply-To: <4CEFEF92.3080300-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEFEF92.3080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CEFF4AF.6090505@rogers.com> teddy mills wrote: > I would like a PDA that has > > Basic phone services > IMAP/Email > SSH terminal client with functional keyboard > Basic web browser > > > Internet/Email/Web/Remote/SSH is far more important to me than any > Phone service. > > If I have to compromise on the PDA, > I think a netbook+WIMAX card would be best. > > Using a Kindle3/web browser/ShellinaBox may work, > but keyboard would be difficult to use and I would have to find a > wireless hotspot all the time. An Android phone running v.2.2 or later should do what you want. With 2.2, you get WiFi & USB tethering, which will allow you to connect other devices to the internet via 3G. I have a Google Nexus One, which works well. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 18:09:48 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:09:48 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > On 26 November 2010 02:16, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> I am considering purchasing a ups power supply, I have 2 box with 2 >> monitors, once it CRT, the other is a LCD. I want to spend at most $100, and >> really need it to protect my system from sudden power loss. I just need >> enough time to be able to shut down the system properly, 20 min max running >> off battery. >> >> Is anyone here using a UPS, do you have any suggestions? > > I think your specs are way too high for the money you're willing to > spend. ?For $50-80 you'll generally get a UPS that will support one > box without wall power for 10-15 minutes - and that's with an LCD > monitor. ?CRTs draw three times the power that LCDs do (generally > around 65w as opposed to 20w). ?Standard desktop boxes will draw > anywhere from 60w to 100w ... possibly more if you have a P4? > > If you don't have more money, I would suggest picking one machine to > designate "critical," attach the LCD and the UPS to it, and save > frequently on the other machine. ?I've found that with EXT3, crashes > pretty much never result in filesystem problems: it's been a huge > improvement on EXT2. > > And don't, whatever you do, hook a laser printer to your UPS: their > start-up draw will break anything but an industrial size UPS. ?Even > when wall power is on. > > Good luck. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- good suggestion, i plan to only have one system running(most of the time). i can just hook the pc to the UPS and keep monitor and printer on a separate surge protected power bar. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 18:15:57 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:15:57 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Scott Allen wrote: > On 26 November 2010 02:16, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> I just need enough time to be able to shut down the system properly, >> 20 min max running off battery. > > If you get one that can be monitored and controlled by Network UPS > Tools (NUT), you can have all your systems run until the UPS reports > that the battery is nearly exhausted and then shutdown automatically. > This way, if you just want time for a proper shutdown, you could get > away with one that only has a 5 or 10 minute capacity. > > > > -- > Scott > -- Scott thanks for the link, that an interesting project! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 18:36:49 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 10:36:49 -0800 Subject: USB3 (wasMoving an HD from one comp to another) Message-ID: So if you connect a USB2 device to a computer's USB3 bus, does it work happily without crapping out the CPU, or only enable DMA/interrupt for USB3 enabled devices? I haven't bought any USB3-enabled boards yet. What's the state of linux-friendliness of the controllers. I know i've had a lot of USB2 devices that would drop-off on various boards in 'nix but not in windows for some reason... On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 01:27:23PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: >> Was very grateful to learn this when it was posted a while back. >> Explained why whenever I am offloading some data from the server to an >> USB drive, it always tend to trigger high load nagios alert. ?Its even >> odd that USB 2 using polling instead on interrupts >> >> That said, it looks like they have fixed both the lack of DMA and >> interrupts ?with USB 3. ?I have just scanned through USB 3 >> specification and I wonder if I got this fact right > > I would hope so. ?I highly doubt they could pull off 4.8Gbit/s without > DMA. > > For USB1 it was OK. ?For USB2 it was a crappy design choice (Firewire > already had DMA done right which is why 400 and 800Mbit/s firewire works > great with very little CPU load). > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 18:48:22 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:48:22 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <4CEF5EDA.3080205-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 02:16:42AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I am considering purchasing a ups power supply, I have 2 box with 2 > monitors, once it CRT, the other is a LCD. I want to spend at most $100, > and really need it to protect my system from sudden power loss. I just > need enough time to be able to shut down the system properly, 20 min max > running off battery. > > Is anyone here using a UPS, do you have any suggestions? Do your machines have power supplies with active power factor correction? If they do, then many require sine wave input to function properly, and may turn off or fail (or make loud buzzing sounds from the power supply) if they are fed stepped sine wave simulation instead of a proper sine wave. How affected they are various by design. A UPS with proper sine wave (rather than a simulated sine wave) are no where near $100. This is why I still haven't got one for my wife's machine. I wish Dell would have a $200 sale on the APC SU1500 again, like they used to often have, but they no longer seem to do that. $600 for one is a bit out of my current budget. I have found one that would work for $300-$400 range but I haven't bought one yet (still hoping for that sale thing to happen again some day). Running two computers and two screens would probably require a 1000 to 1500VA range UPS depending on the power requirements of the two computers. You aren't likely to get more than 10 to 15 minutes run time either with a load like that unless you buy something very big and expensive (which probably requires more than a 15A outlet then). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 18:50:50 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:50:50 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <20101126184822.GN12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 01:48:22PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Do your machines have power supplies with active power factor correction? As a general rule, if you have a switch to select between 115 and 230V, then you do NOT have active PFC. If you have no selector switch, then you probably do. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 18:56:27 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:56:27 -0500 Subject: USB3 (wasMoving an HD from one comp to another) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101126185627.GP12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 10:36:49AM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: > So if you connect a USB2 device to a computer's USB3 bus, does it work > happily without crapping out the CPU, or only enable DMA/interrupt for > USB3 enabled devices? No. A USB3 port is really two ports in one. It is a USB2 port with all the regular pins and an EHCI+OHCI/UHCI controller, and then it is an XHCI controller as well using seperate data lines for USB3 devices. Devices start out talking to the USB2 part of the port, and if the device and the port and any hubs along the way are all able to do USB3, then they enable the USB3 part of the link for data transfers. Some control messages will still use the USB2 part of the link at times apparently. A USB3 port will not make any change in behaviour to USB1 or 2 devices. The USB1/2 protocol has no concept of interrupts or DMA. USB3 has a lot more in the protocol, but only USB3 devices and ports support the new features. > I haven't bought any USB3-enabled boards yet. What's the state of > linux-friendliness of the controllers. I know i've had a lot of USB2 > devices that would drop-off on various boards in 'nix but not in > windows for some reason... Linux has XHCI controller support for a while now. Probably had it a while before windows did. That was the case with USB2's EHCI in the past as well. Linux had it first. Some USB2 controllers were badly made, and there were a few kernel bugs some years ago too that affected some implementations (SiS chip sets were especially effected) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 19:00:52 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:00:52 -0800 Subject: USB3 (wasMoving an HD from one comp to another) In-Reply-To: <20101126185627.GP12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101126185627.GP12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: That's what I was afraid of. Ah well, I guess I'll just have to hold out for USB3 boards and then get a USB3 drive-enclosure. Until then there's always eSATA as well, which is becoming fairly popular it seems (probably due the USB2-IO=suck issues mentioned) Thanks for the info though, it's very informative! On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 10:36:49AM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> So if you connect a USB2 device to a computer's USB3 bus, does it work >> happily without crapping out the CPU, or only enable DMA/interrupt for >> USB3 enabled devices? > > No. ?A USB3 port is really two ports in one. ?It is a USB2 port with > all the regular pins and an EHCI+OHCI/UHCI controller, and then it is > an XHCI controller as well using seperate data lines for USB3 devices. > Devices start out talking to the USB2 part of the port, and if the device > and the port and any hubs along the way are all able to do USB3, then > they enable the USB3 part of the link for data transfers. ?Some control > messages will still use the USB2 part of the link at times apparently. > > A USB3 port will not make any change in behaviour to USB1 or 2 devices. > The USB1/2 protocol has no concept of interrupts or DMA. ?USB3 has a > lot more in the protocol, but only USB3 devices and ports support the > new features. > >> I haven't bought any USB3-enabled boards yet. What's the state of >> linux-friendliness of the controllers. I know i've had a lot of USB2 >> devices that would drop-off on various boards in 'nix but not in >> windows for some reason... > > Linux has XHCI controller support for a while now. ?Probably had it a > while before windows did. ?That was the case with USB2's EHCI in the > past as well. ?Linux had it first. > > Some USB2 controllers were badly made, and there were a few kernel bugs > some years ago too that affected some implementations (SiS chip sets > were especially effected) > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 19:15:41 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 14:15:41 -0500 Subject: PDA for Linux admin In-Reply-To: <4CEFF4AF.6090505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEFEF92.3080300@gmail.com> <4CEFF4AF.6090505@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:55 PM, James Knott wrote: > teddy mills wrote: >> >> I would like a PDA that has >> >> Basic phone services >> IMAP/Email >> SSH terminal client with functional keyboard >> Basic web browser >> >> >> Internet/Email/Web/Remote/SSH is far more important to me than any Phone >> service. >> >> If I have to compromise on the PDA, >> I think a netbook+WIMAX card would be best. >> >> Using a Kindle3/web browser/ShellinaBox may work, >> but keyboard would be difficult to use and I would have to find a wireless >> hotspot all the time. > > An Android phone running v.2.2 or later should do what you want. ?With 2.2, > you get WiFi & USB tethering, which will allow you to connect other devices > to the internet via 3G. ?I have a Google Nexus One, which works well. > Android is the way to go. Any newish Android phone would work wonders. I have an HTC Desire from Telus and I've used it to push releases to our production environment via ssh. The HTC Sense email application is better than the stock Android with regards to Exchange support. I have full access to my calendars and company directory. (Exchange support is limited in stock Android, hopefully 2.3 will address that) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 20:22:11 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 15:22:11 -0500 Subject: PDA for Linux admin In-Reply-To: <4CEFEF92.3080300-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEFEF92.3080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:34 PM, teddy mills wrote: > > I am not up to date on PDAs. > > I would like a PDA that has > > Basic phone services > IMAP/Email > SSH terminal client with functional keyboard > Basic web browser A reasonably recent Android-based phone (e.g. - running version 2.0+) should in principle offer the things you're asking for. I've been playing with tablets (see URL below); mine doesn't presently support Bluetooth keyboards. On the other hand, my HTC G1 (which is ancient) running CyanogenMod (based on Android 2.2) supports Bluetooth nicely. Your options notably include: a) Android, as mentioned above, ought to be pretty suitable. b) iPhone. I think there's a terminal client + ssh at the "App Store. It appears that Bluetooth keyboards are supported on newer units; best to check with Apple on that. Everything else would be there... c) N900 / Maemo Around $500 these days on CL... Offers everything you ask for... It's possible that the latest PalmOS/WebOS would work out; not sure. I don't think Nokia/Symbian would be quite what you're after, nor Windows Mobile. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/a81.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 20:24:45 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 15:24:45 -0500 Subject: PDA for Linux admin In-Reply-To: <4CEFEF92.3080300-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEFEF92.3080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: Get an Android phone with a qwerty keyboard and you're all set. I have the HTC Desire (no keyboard) which I love and it does all that. The keyboard version is the Desire Z. It's out on Bell right now. - Fabio On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:34, teddy mills wrote: > > I am not up to date on PDAs. > > I would like a PDA that has > > Basic phone services > IMAP/Email > SSH terminal client with functional keyboard > Basic web browser > > > Internet/Email/Web/Remote/SSH is far more important to me than any Phone > service. > > If I have to compromise on the PDA, > I think a netbook+WIMAX card would be best. > > Using a Kindle3/web browser/ShellinaBox may work, > but keyboard would be difficult to use and I would have to find a wireless > hotspot all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 20:32:06 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 15:32:06 -0500 Subject: PDA for Linux admin In-Reply-To: <4CEFEF92.3080300-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEFEF92.3080300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101126203206.GQ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:34:10PM -0500, teddy mills wrote: > I am not up to date on PDAs. > > I would like a PDA that has > > Basic phone services > IMAP/Email > SSH terminal client with functional keyboard > Basic web browser > > Internet/Email/Web/Remote/SSH is far more important to me than any Phone > service. > > If I have to compromise on the PDA, > I think a netbook+WIMAX card would be best. > > Using a Kindle3/web browser/ShellinaBox may work, > but keyboard would be difficult to use and I would have to find a > wireless hotspot all the time. My wife uses a Nokia E63 ($150 from newegg.ca on sale at the time, today it is $170). it does nice email and supports imap as far as I can tell. The browser is rather nice, and opera and opera mini are also available for it. Putty for symbian should work on it too (never tried). The keyboard is very good on it. It makes phone calls. On rogers they treat it as a "smart phone", which means you need some data plan to use it for any network access, so my wife has the 150MB/month for $15 add on to our regular phone plan and so far hasn't managed to use more than 20MB in a month. I am sure they have much bigger data plans for more serious users. The gmail app runs nicely on it too of course. This page claims ssh works on the E63 at least: http://digitalpbk.com/e63-ssh/installing-putty-ssh-client-nokia-e63 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 20:34:27 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 15:34:27 -0500 Subject: USB3 (wasMoving an HD from one comp to another) In-Reply-To: References: <20101126185627.GP12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101126203427.GR12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 11:00:52AM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: > That's what I was afraid of. Ah well, I guess I'll just have to hold > out for USB3 boards and then get a USB3 drive-enclosure. Until then > there's always eSATA as well, which is becoming fairly popular it > seems (probably due the USB2-IO=suck issues mentioned) > > Thanks for the info though, it's very informative! Yeah USB1 and USB2 simple suck by design. USB3 is a better design, but can't fix existing stuff. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 20:59:20 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 15:59:20 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF01FA8.8010308@rogers.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > i can just hook the pc to the UPS and keep monitor and printer > on a separate surge protected power bar. Many UPSs have surge protected outlets as well as UPS. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 23:10:14 2010 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:10:14 -0500 Subject: X11 forwarding and iptables question Message-ID: <201011261810.15433.icanprogram@295.ca> I recently locked down my ports using some iptables rules to DROP all INPUT and FORWARD packets and then accept only on certain ports. My most of my stuff is working as expected except for X11 forwarding (ie. by logging in with ssh -X and running stuff like xclock). I noticed that ports 177 and 6000:6007 are X11 related. I opened these up on the INPUT chain but X11 forwarding still doesn't work. What iptable rule should I be invoking to allow X11 forwarding? Thanks in advance for your help. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 23:15:38 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:15:38 -0500 Subject: X11 forwarding and iptables question In-Reply-To: <201011261810.15433.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <201011261810.15433.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <4CF03F9A.9090200@rogers.com> bob 295 wrote: > I recently locked down my ports using some iptables rules to DROP all INPUT > and FORWARD packets and then accept only on certain ports. > > My most of my stuff is working as expected except for X11 forwarding (ie. by > logging in with ssh -X and running stuff like xclock). > > I noticed that ports 177 and 6000:6007 are X11 related. I opened these up on > the INPUT chain but X11 forwarding still doesn't work. > > What iptable rule should I be invoking to allow X11 forwarding? > > Thanks in advance for your help. > As I understand it, you don't want to be running X unsecured over the public internet. I've often used it via VPN to my home network. Also, if you only want individual apps, rather than the entire desktop, you can use X forwarding over ssh, which is also secure. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 26 23:24:21 2010 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:24:21 -0500 Subject: X11 forwarding and iptables question Message-ID: <201011262324.oAQNOLZt021160@john.syonex.com> If X apps work for you locally, then they should also work with X11 forwarding over ssh, unless you have very strange iptables settings (e.g. rules on lo0/127.0.0.1/localhost). Check the remote end's sshd_config file to make sure that X11Forwarding is allowed. My sshd_config(5) man page says that the default is no. Check your DISPLAY environment variable in your ssh session (via echo $DISPLAY). Ssh should set it to something like localhost:10.0 if forwarding is working. Check that the remote end has an xauth(1) command. See if verbose ssh (with -v) tells you anything interesting. Hope that helps! John | I recently locked down my ports using some iptables rules to DROP all INPUT | and FORWARD packets and then accept only on certain ports. | | My most of my stuff is working as expected except for X11 forwarding (ie. by | logging in with ssh -X and running stuff like xclock). | | I noticed that ports 177 and 6000:6007 are X11 related. I opened these up on | the INPUT chain but X11 forwarding still doesn't work. | | What iptable rule should I be invoking to allow X11 forwarding? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 27 12:38:57 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 07:38:57 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <20101126185050.GO12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> On 10-11-26 01:50 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 01:48:22PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Do your machines have power supplies with active power factor correction? > > As a general rule, if you have a switch to select between 115 and 230V, > then you do NOT have active PFC. If you have no selector switch, then > you probably do. > wow getting a basic UPS is more complicated and expensive than I figured, will have to do more reading up on it. thanks for the info! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 27 15:08:04 2010 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 10:08:04 -0500 Subject: X11 forwarding and iptables question In-Reply-To: <201011262324.oAQNOLZt021160-Jipd69o+pMeeO54lu/exkA@public.gmane.org> References: <201011262324.oAQNOLZt021160@john.syonex.com> Message-ID: <201011271008.05990.icanprogram@295.ca> I have my default policy to DROP packets. It turns out to enable X11 forwarding over ssh I needed to enable the local loopback interface as well as ssh port 22. ie. iptables -A INPUT -i lo -p all -j ACCEPT seems to have done the trick. Thanks again for your help. bob On Friday 26 November 2010 06:24 pm, John Sellens wrote: > If X apps work for you locally, then they should also work with X11 > forwarding over ssh, unless you have very strange iptables settings > (e.g. rules on lo0/127.0.0.1/localhost). > > Check the remote end's sshd_config file to make sure that X11Forwarding > is allowed. My sshd_config(5) man page says that the default is no. > > Check your DISPLAY environment variable in your ssh session (via echo > $DISPLAY). Ssh should set it to something like localhost:10.0 if > forwarding is working. > > Check that the remote end has an xauth(1) command. > > See if verbose ssh (with -v) tells you anything interesting. > > Hope that helps! > > John > > | I recently locked down my ports using some iptables rules to DROP all > | INPUT and FORWARD packets and then accept only on certain ports. > | > | My most of my stuff is working as expected except for X11 forwarding (ie. > | by logging in with ssh -X and running stuff like xclock). > | > | I noticed that ports 177 and 6000:6007 are X11 related. I opened these > | up on the INPUT chain but X11 forwarding still doesn't work. > | > | What iptable rule should I be invoking to allow X11 forwarding? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 27 17:47:06 2010 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 12:47:06 -0500 Subject: Gnu C Math Libraries Message-ID: <20101127124706.4374a63a.hgibson@eol.ca> I am trying to write a C program using some math functions like log10 and floor. I am calling up #include , but it comes back and claims that the math functions are undefined references. The man and info pages claim that these functions are part of the math library. When I search /usr/include/math.h, there is no reference to them. Does anybody know what is happening here, and what I can do about it? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 27 18:13:34 2010 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:13:34 -0500 Subject: Gnu C Math Libraries In-Reply-To: <20101127124706.4374a63a.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101127124706.4374a63a.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: you are including the header file, but to link to the library you need to compile with -l and/or -L options to point to those libraries, been a while since i made a make file for C (or compiled from CL), but -lmath ? or something like that. tl On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: > ? I am trying to write a C program using some math functions like log10 and floor. ?I am calling up #include , but it comes back and claims that the math functions are undefined references. ?The man and info pages claim that these functions are part of the math library. ?When I search /usr/include/math.h, there is no reference to them. > > ? Does anybody know what is happening here, and what I can do about it? > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 27 18:15:10 2010 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:15:10 -0500 Subject: Gnu C Math Libraries In-Reply-To: References: <20101127124706.4374a63a.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: just looked it up to include standard math library -lm On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 1:13 PM, ted leslie wrote: > you are including the header file, but to link to the library you need > to compile with -l and/or -L options to point to those libraries, > been a while since i made a make file for C (or compiled from CL), but > ?-lmath ?? or something like that. > > tl > On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: >> ? I am trying to write a C program using some math functions like log10 and floor. ?I am calling up #include , but it comes back and claims that the math functions are undefined references. ?The man and info pages claim that these functions are part of the math library. ?When I search /usr/include/math.h, there is no reference to them. >> >> ? Does anybody know what is happening here, and what I can do about it? >> >> -- >> Howard Gibson >> hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org >> howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org >> http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 27 20:00:07 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 15:00:07 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <4CF0FBE1.2000506-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF16347.1040204@rogers.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > wow getting a basic UPS is more complicated and expensive than I > figured, will have to do more reading up on it. thanks for the info! And when you get that all figured out, you can go buy one at the UPS Store. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 06:53:54 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 01:53:54 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <20101126184822.GN12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101128065354.GA4283@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 01:48:22PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote > Running two computers and two screens would probably require a 1000 > to 1500VA range UPS depending on the power requirements of the two > computers. You aren't likely to get more than 10 to 15 minutes run > time either with a load like that unless you buy something very big > and expensive (which probably requires more than a 15A outlet then). I'm happy with 5 to 10 minutes. My main problem isn't extended power outages, but 2 or 3 second outages that reboot the computer. A few days ago we had moderately high winds in the GTA that brought down tree branches, which took down some power lines. Twice that evening, the lights flickered on-and-off in my condo, while hydro power got rerouted. Those flickers would've rebooted my system. The UPS did its job. Each time the lights flickered, I heard it click in and out. I have my LCD monitor plugged in to the UPS. It's kind of hard to do a manual shut down without a screen . The LCD monitor also provides faint illumination while I run to the bedroom and fetch my flashlight. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 07:02:55 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:02:55 -0500 Subject: Mobile internet in GTA? (not Rogers/Bell/Telus) Message-ID: <20101128070254.GB4283@waltdnes.org> I've looked at the BRAT (Bell Rogers And Telus) websites, and their mobile internet prices are rather high, to say the least. Wind and Mobilicity look promising. Are there any other providers? By the way, Wind's website crashed my linux system twice on Saturday evening. The second time, I couldn't even shut down gracefully with MagicSysReq. I have a couple of questions... 1. How is their coverage and signal strength in the GTA? 2. Do their USB mobile internet sticks work with linux? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 15:29:33 2010 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 10:29:33 -0500 Subject: RAID Controllers in GTA Message-ID: I'm in need of a reasonably priced ($150-$200) PCI-e SATA RAID controller for a VMWware ESXi server. My client is in a bit of a rush to get this together, so I'm wondering what brick and mortar stores you might recommend for such a controller that are in the GTA? I found one supported controller in the price range at Canada Computers but it is back-ordered, so I can't grab it today. Thanks in advance! -jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 15:49:13 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 10:49:13 -0500 Subject: Mobile internet in GTA? (not Rogers/Bell/Telus) In-Reply-To: <20101128070254.GB4283-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20101128070254.GB4283@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4CF279F9.8080900@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > I've looked at the BRAT (Bell Rogers And Telus) websites, and their > mobile internet prices are rather high I recently got a $30/6GB plan on Rogers. Apparently, they run that special occasionally. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 16:03:54 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:03:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <20101126184822.GN12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Running two computers and two screens would probably require a 1000 to | 1500VA range UPS depending on the power requirements of the two computers. | You aren't likely to get more than 10 to 15 minutes run time either | with a load like that unless you buy something very big and expensive | (which probably requires more than a 15A outlet then). I was casually looking at UPS units at a Tiger Direct yesterday. All the boxes give VA (Volt Ampere) ratings so you can figure out how many devices to hook up. But none seemed to give Watt hour ratings. They gave stupid claims like "will run devices up to half an hour" which is no rating at all. How do you tell what a UPS's deliverable energy capacity is? Is UPS behaviour more complicated than my simple model: it can deliver so many Watt hours when fully charged? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 16:01:48 2010 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:01:48 -0500 Subject: Gnu C Math Libraries In-Reply-To: References: <20101127124706.4374a63a.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20101128110148.de79bd74.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:15:10 -0500 ted leslie wrote: > just looked it up > to include standard math library > > -lm Ted, Thank you. That worked. It also works for linking, as long as it is at the end of the command line. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 16:07:43 2010 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:07:43 -0500 Subject: Mobile internet in GTA? (not Rogers/Bell/Telus) In-Reply-To: <4CF279F9.8080900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20101128070254.GB4283@waltdnes.org> <4CF279F9.8080900@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CF27E4F.7060208@teksavvy.com> On 11/28/2010 10:49 AM, James Knott wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: >> I've looked at the BRAT (Bell Rogers And Telus) websites, and their >> mobile internet prices are rather high > > I recently got a $30/6GB plan on Rogers. Apparently, they run that > special occasionally. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > WIND? -- Elliott Chapin http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 16:45:52 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:45:52 -0500 Subject: RAID Controllers in GTA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did you check to see if NCIX's Toronto store has them? Michael On 2010-11-28 10:29 AM, "Jason Shaw" wrote: I'm in need of a reasonably priced ($150-$200) PCI-e SATA RAID controller for a VMWware ESXi server. My client is in a bit of a rush to get this together, so I'm wondering what brick and mortar stores you might recommend for such a controller that are in the GTA? I found one supported controller in the price range at Canada Computers but it is back-ordered, so I can't grab it today. Thanks in advance! -jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 16:56:54 2010 From: rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rafael Carneiro) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:56:54 -0500 Subject: RAID Controllers in GTA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have one of these (it's been running for about 2 years - ESXi 3.5, 4.0 and more recently 4.1): http://ncix.com/products/?sku=222268243&vpn=LSI00168&manufacture=LSI%20Logic Rafael On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Jason Shaw wrote: > I'm in need of a reasonably priced ($150-$200) PCI-e SATA RAID controller > for a VMWware ESXi server. My client is in a bit of a rush to get this > together, so I'm wondering what brick and mortar stores you might recommend > for such a controller that are in the GTA? > > I found one supported controller in the price range at Canada Computers but > it is back-ordered, so I can't grab it today. > > Thanks in advance! > -jason > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 17:00:04 2010 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 12:00:04 -0500 Subject: RAID Controllers in GTA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I hadn't looked NCIX until you mentioned it, Michael, thanks. I was primarily looking at the College Street shops, which don't really have anything I'm looking for. Rafael, that's one of the models I'm looking at. It works well and doesn't require any sort of custom oem file or anything in ESXi 4.1? If that's the case, I'll pick one up asap. Thanks! -jason On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Rafael Carneiro wrote: > I have one of these (it's been running for about 2 years - ESXi 3.5, 4.0 > and more recently 4.1): > > http://ncix.com/products/?sku=222268243&vpn=LSI00168&manufacture=LSI%20Logic > > Rafael > > > > On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Jason Shaw wrote: > >> I'm in need of a reasonably priced ($150-$200) PCI-e SATA RAID controller >> for a VMWware ESXi server. My client is in a bit of a rush to get this >> together, so I'm wondering what brick and mortar stores you might recommend >> for such a controller that are in the GTA? >> >> I found one supported controller in the price range at Canada Computers >> but it is back-ordered, so I can't grab it today. >> >> Thanks in advance! >> -jason >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 17:10:39 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 12:10:39 -0500 Subject: Mobile internet in GTA? (not Rogers/Bell/Telus) In-Reply-To: <20101128070254.GB4283-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20101128070254.GB4283@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4CF28D0F.2070308@alteeve.com> On 11/28/2010 02:02 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > I've looked at the BRAT (Bell Rogers And Telus) websites, and their > mobile internet prices are rather high, to say the least. Wind and > Mobilicity look promising. Are there any other providers? By the way, > Wind's website crashed my linux system twice on Saturday evening. The > second time, I couldn't even shut down gracefully with MagicSysReq. I > have a couple of questions... > > 1. How is their coverage and signal strength in the GTA? > 2. Do their USB mobile internet sticks work with linux? I've been using Wind for some months now with my Nexus One, which I very frequently tether my laptop to both using USB and as a Wireless AP. Their coverage is good, but not awesome. There are two spots on the Go train's Lakeshore West corridor where I often drop, but they are fairly small. As I understand it, their Internet stick works fine under Linux and it has no port restrictions. When on a phone though, non-standard ports are blocked. As most of our servers use non-standard SSH ports, I've had to setup SSH on 22 at home (static IP), and I route to all my server connections through there. Wind's "Home Zone" requires 3G. In my basement, I lose 3G. As a phone, this was not good. However, I just got a super-cheap VoIP number from Unlimitel, installed Siproid and I and told my phone to forward calls to it whenever I lose reception. This works very well, and I don't have to think about it any more as the switch is automatic. The take-away message is; Wind is good, and I've found ways around the less perfect bits without trouble. For the peace of mind of unlimited bandwidth, I still think it is the best option currently available. Doubly so when you look at the other carrier's frightening overage charges. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 18:31:29 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:31:29 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <4CF0FBE1.2000506-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF2A001.40204@ve3syb.ca> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > wow getting a basic UPS is more complicated and expensive than I > figured, will have to do more reading up on it. You also need to look at how a UPS provides AC power to the devices plugged in to it. The method used determines various operational factors such as time to switch between hydro and backup power, and the ability to handle brownouts, over voltage conditions, and power spikes and noise on the hydro AC line. There is some good information about different types of UPS in Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 18:35:57 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:35:57 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <4CF0FBE1.2000506-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF2A10D.3020204@ve3syb.ca> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > wow getting a basic UPS is more complicated and expensive than I > figured, will have to do more reading up on it. I also forgot to mention that some UPS used to have a serial port on them to provide a means to notify a computer of a power fail allowing automatic system shutdown. Most computers no longer include a serial port. Modern USP's may provide some other way (USB or ethernet) to sent the power fail notification to an external computer system. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 28 19:01:03 2010 From: scruss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:01:03 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <4CF2A001.40204-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> <4CF2A001.40204@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4CF2A6EF.4060303@gmail.com> On 10-11-28 13:31 , Kevin Cozens wrote: > > You also need to look at how a UPS provides AC power to the devices > plugged in to it. The method used determines various operational factors > ... You do if you're specifying a UPS for a mission critical server. But otherwise, just go buy an APC unit that you can actually carry, plug it in, and marvel how your computer rides through glitches like never before. You'll also marvel how maddeningly beepy UPSs are when the power's out - it's not like you wouldn't know, what with the lights out and all. My advice on UPS usage: * Advise all in your household that the temptingly open socket on the UPS shouldn't be used for the vacuum cleaner. * The battery has a finite life; a couple of years or so. Amazingly, all the domestic UPSs I've had pegged out in a mess of beeping at 3:30am. * The tiniest APC unit uses a hard-to-find replacement battery. The next one (or so) up uses a standard 12V 7Ah gel cell that every emergency light or fire alarm seems to use, and can be replaced cheaply. * Using a laptop avoids all the above. Built-in UPS a go go! Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 04:37:02 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:37:02 -0500 Subject: Mobile internet in GTA? (not Rogers/Bell/Telus) In-Reply-To: <4CF27E4F.7060208-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101128070254.GB4283@waltdnes.org> <4CF279F9.8080900@rogers.com> <4CF27E4F.7060208@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20101129043702.GA6924@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:07:43AM -0500, Elliott Chapin wrote > WIND? See http://shop.windmobile.ca/ and http://shop.windmobile.ca/ProductCatalog/DataPlans/ -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 15:27:05 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 10:27:05 -0500 Subject: Mobile internet in GTA? (not Rogers/Bell/Telus) In-Reply-To: <20101129043702.GA6924-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20101128070254.GB4283@waltdnes.org> <4CF279F9.8080900@rogers.com> <4CF27E4F.7060208@teksavvy.com> <20101129043702.GA6924@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: If anyone wants the Nexus One. They have it at mobilicity :) A competitor to wind. http://mobilicity.ca/products/ On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:07:43AM -0500, Elliott Chapin wrote > > > WIND? > > See http://shop.windmobile.ca/ and > http://shop.windmobile.ca/ProductCatalog/DataPlans/ > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 16:20:52 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 11:20:52 -0500 Subject: Tape Backup Prices Message-ID: Hello Fellow Tlugers, I am looking to purchase a Tape Backup, and am unsure the prices and good providers with cost for value. The tape backup is for a small non-profit organization. I will be using Bacula for the Tape Backups so it would have to be supported. Any suggestions that people might have would be appreciated. -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 16:55:16 2010 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 11:55:16 -0500 Subject: Writing over a drive using /dev/zero Message-ID: I wanted to estimate how much time it would take to write over a 1TB external hard drive connected by USB using "dd" and /dev/zero ... so I generated a sample 1GB file using: touch zero_erase && /usr/bin/time -av -o zero_erase dd if=/dev/zero of=file1g_zero.tmp bs=1M count=1024 User time (seconds): 0.00 System time (seconds): 0.93 Percent of CPU this job got: 15% Elapsed (wall clock) time (h:mm:ss or m:ss): 0:06.06 Extrapolating from the sample I estimated it would take roughly 2 hours to fill a 1TB drive. But the actual result was: /usr/bin/time -av -o zero_erase dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=1M User time (seconds): 1.11 System time (seconds): 889.01 Percent of CPU this job got: 2% Elapsed (wall clock) time (h:mm:ss or m:ss): 10:09:45 Quite a difference. Two factors I think might account for it: * test sample was created on the local disk ... external disk might be slower due to the USB connection? * CPU usage is much lower writing to the external disk vs the sample file... would increasing the priority and CPU usage increase the speed of the dd command? Any thoughts? Thanks! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 17:02:59 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:02:59 -0500 Subject: Writing over a drive using /dev/zero In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: > I wanted to estimate how much time it would take to write over a 1TB > external hard drive connected by USB using "dd" and /dev/zero ... so I > generated a sample 1GB file using: > > touch zero_erase && /usr/bin/time -av -o zero_erase dd if=/dev/zero > of=file1g_zero.tmp bs=1M count=1024 > > User time (seconds): 0.00 > System time (seconds): 0.93 > Percent of CPU this job got: 15% > Elapsed (wall clock) time (h:mm:ss or m:ss): 0:06.06 > > Extrapolating from the sample I estimated it would take roughly 2 > hours to fill a 1TB drive. But the actual result was: > > /usr/bin/time -av -o zero_erase dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=1M > > User time (seconds): 1.11 > System time (seconds): 889.01 > Percent of CPU this job got: 2% > Elapsed (wall clock) time (h:mm:ss or m:ss): 10:09:45 > > Quite a difference. Two factors I think might account for it: > > * test sample was created on the local disk ... external disk might be > slower due to the USB connection? > > * CPU usage is much lower writing to the external disk vs the sample > file... would increasing the priority and CPU usage increase the speed > of the dd command? > > Any thoughts? Thanks! Another thought, cache. The drive (and/or the driver) might report back that it had written the 1 GB file even if the physical writing was not yet complete. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 17:03:17 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:03:17 -0500 Subject: Writing over a drive using /dev/zero In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: > I wanted to estimate how much time it would take to write over a 1TB > external hard drive connected by USB using "dd" and /dev/zero ... so I > generated a sample 1GB file using: > > touch zero_erase && /usr/bin/time -av -o zero_erase dd if=/dev/zero > of=file1g_zero.tmp bs=1M count=1024 > > User time (seconds): 0.00 > System time (seconds): 0.93 > Percent of CPU this job got: 15% > Elapsed (wall clock) time (h:mm:ss or m:ss): 0:06.06 > > Extrapolating from the sample I estimated it would take roughly 2 > hours to fill a 1TB drive. But the actual result was: > > /usr/bin/time -av -o zero_erase dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=1M > > User time (seconds): 1.11 > System time (seconds): 889.01 > Percent of CPU this job got: 2% > Elapsed (wall clock) time (h:mm:ss or m:ss): 10:09:45 > > Quite a difference. Two factors I think might account for it: > > * test sample was created on the local disk ... external disk might be > slower due to the USB connection? > > * CPU usage is much lower writing to the external disk vs the sample > file... would increasing the priority and CPU usage increase the speed > of the dd command? > > Any thoughts? Thanks! Yeah, you have to synch at the end for any meaningful data. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 17:05:47 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:05:47 -0500 Subject: Tape Backup Prices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101129170547.GS12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:20:52AM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I am looking to purchase a Tape Backup, and am unsure the prices and good > providers with cost for value. The tape backup is for a small non-profit > organization. I will be using Bacula for the Tape Backups so it would have > to be supported. > > Any suggestions that people might have would be appreciated. Well how much data needs backing up? Tape drives tend to be not cheap at all. Bacula will work with pretty much any tape linux supports as a /dev/nst* or /dev/st* External USB drives are much cheaper to backup to, but not as durable as tape of course. Remote rsync to another location is often the cheapest and best backup method you can have, if you happen to have someone else you can swap data with (I do it with my parents personally). Means no one has to remember to do the backups, they just happen at night. And unless someone remembers to bring the backup off site, it isn't a backup. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 17:09:21 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:09:21 -0500 Subject: Writing over a drive using /dev/zero In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101129170921.GT12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:55:16AM -0500, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: > I wanted to estimate how much time it would take to write over a 1TB > external hard drive connected by USB using "dd" and /dev/zero ... so I > generated a sample 1GB file using: > > touch zero_erase && /usr/bin/time -av -o zero_erase dd if=/dev/zero > of=file1g_zero.tmp bs=1M count=1024 > > User time (seconds): 0.00 > System time (seconds): 0.93 > Percent of CPU this job got: 15% > Elapsed (wall clock) time (h:mm:ss or m:ss): 0:06.06 > > Extrapolating from the sample I estimated it would take roughly 2 > hours to fill a 1TB drive. But the actual result was: > > /usr/bin/time -av -o zero_erase dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=1M > > User time (seconds): 1.11 > System time (seconds): 889.01 > Percent of CPU this job got: 2% > Elapsed (wall clock) time (h:mm:ss or m:ss): 10:09:45 > > Quite a difference. Two factors I think might account for it: > > * test sample was created on the local disk ... external disk might be > slower due to the USB connection? > > * CPU usage is much lower writing to the external disk vs the sample > file... would increasing the priority and CPU usage increase the speed > of the dd command? > > Any thoughts? Thanks! Did you remember to sync to finish the write to disk as part of our measurement? For 1TB though, it probably becomes just noise in the end given how long it already takes. If it is USB2, then you can probably figure about 25MB/s, so 40 seconds per GB, so 40000 seconds for a TB. So about 11 or 12 hours. Might do it in 10 if you get lucky. eSATA can probably do 80MB/s on a decent 1TB drive, so maybe 4 hours. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 17:18:05 2010 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:18:05 -0500 Subject: Writing over a drive using /dev/zero In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Daniel Wayne Armstrong > wrote: >> I wanted to estimate how much time it would take to write over a 1TB >> external hard drive connected by USB using "dd" and /dev/zero ... so I >> generated a sample 1GB file using: >> >> touch zero_erase && /usr/bin/time -av -o zero_erase dd if=/dev/zero >> of=file1g_zero.tmp bs=1M count=1024 > > Another thought, cache. The drive (and/or the driver) might report > back that it had written the 1 GB file even if the physical writing > was not yet complete. Ahh... good point. Going back and running "sync" afterwards does add a few seconds. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 17:21:57 2010 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:21:57 -0500 Subject: Writing over a drive using /dev/zero In-Reply-To: <20101129170921.GT12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101129170921.GT12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:55:16AM -0500, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: >> I wanted to estimate how much time it would take to write over a 1TB >> external hard drive connected by USB using "dd" and /dev/zero ... so I >> generated a sample 1GB file using: >> >> touch zero_erase && /usr/bin/time -av -o zero_erase dd if=/dev/zero >> of=file1g_zero.tmp bs=1M count=1024 >> >> User time (seconds): 0.00 >> System time (seconds): 0.93 >> Percent of CPU this job got: 15% >> Elapsed (wall clock) time (h:mm:ss or m:ss): 0:06.06 >> >> Extrapolating from the sample I estimated it would take roughly 2 >> hours to fill a 1TB drive. But the actual result was: >> >> /usr/bin/time -av -o zero_erase dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=1M >> >> User time (seconds): 1.11 >> System time (seconds): 889.01 >> Percent of CPU this job got: 2% >> Elapsed (wall clock) time (h:mm:ss or m:ss): 10:09:45 >> >> Quite a difference. Two factors I think might account for it: >> >> * test sample was created on the local disk ... external disk might be >> slower due to the USB connection? >> >> * CPU usage is much lower writing to the external disk vs the sample >> file... would increasing the priority and CPU usage increase the speed >> of the dd command? >> >> Any thoughts? Thanks! > > Did you remember to sync to finish the write to disk as part of our > measurement? > > For 1TB though, it probably becomes just noise in the end given how long > it already takes. > > If it is USB2, then you can probably figure about 25MB/s, so 40 seconds > per GB, so 40000 seconds for a TB. ?So about 11 or 12 hours. ?Might do > it in 10 if you get lucky. ?eSATA can probably do 80MB/s on a decent > 1TB drive, so maybe 4 hours. USB2 connection is a limiting factor... I see. Thanks Lennart! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 17:32:12 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:32:12 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <4CF0FBE1.2000506-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101129173211.GU12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 07:38:57AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > On 10-11-26 01:50 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 01:48:22PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> Do your machines have power supplies with active power factor correction? >> >> As a general rule, if you have a switch to select between 115 and 230V, >> then you do NOT have active PFC. If you have no selector switch, then >> you probably do. >> > > wow getting a basic UPS is more complicated and expensive than I > figured, will have to do more reading up on it. thanks for the info! Exactly. Rather painful when you want one, but don't really want to spend that kind of money. The cyberpower PP1500SWT2 is the cheapest 1500VA (1000W) I have found, which is $350 at greytech.com and claims 3 minutes at full load, 11 minutes at half load. Well cheapest with pure sinewave output. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 17:35:24 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:35:24 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <4CF2A6EF.4060303-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> <4CF2A001.40204@ve3syb.ca> <4CF2A6EF.4060303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101129173524.GV12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 02:01:03PM -0500, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > You do if you're specifying a UPS for a mission critical server. But > otherwise, just go buy an APC unit that you can actually carry, plug it > in, and marvel how your computer rides through glitches like never > before. You'll also marvel how maddeningly beepy UPSs are when the > power's out - it's not like you wouldn't know, what with the lights out > and all. I like APC (I have a number of them). But if you need one for an active PFC power supply, then you have to get a smart-ups. None of the back-ups models will work reliably. That means a much higher price (but also a much better UPS). > My advice on UPS usage: > > * Advise all in your household that the temptingly open socket on the > UPS shouldn't be used for the vacuum cleaner. How is an outlet facing the wall on the back of a brick temptingly open? > * The battery has a finite life; a couple of years or so. Amazingly, all > the domestic UPSs I've had pegged out in a mess of beeping at 3:30am. > > * The tiniest APC unit uses a hard-to-find replacement battery. The next > one (or so) up uses a standard 12V 7Ah gel cell that every emergency > light or fire alarm seems to use, and can be replaced cheaply. > > * Using a laptop avoids all the above. Built-in UPS a go go! Yep, not that the laptop keeps the internet up and running. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 17:49:31 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:49:31 -0500 Subject: RAID Controllers in GTA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101129174931.GW12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 10:29:33AM -0500, Jason Shaw wrote: > I'm in need of a reasonably priced ($150-$200) PCI-e SATA RAID controller > for a VMWware ESXi server. My client is in a bit of a rush to get this > together, so I'm wondering what brick and mortar stores you might recommend > for such a controller that are in the GTA? > > I found one supported controller in the price range at Canada Computers but > it is back-ordered, so I can't grab it today. Hardware raid I would assume. How many ports does it need? There are some Areca 2 and 4 port cards for $200-$300 range at greytech, and they seem to be able to get them to you in a couple of days. I highly doubt any store would stock such items in store in general. In general, adaptec, promise and all the generic brands (bytecc, soma, etc) are not hardware raid, and are often a pain to use with linux. A few of their cards are hardware raid, but it can be hard to find out which ones that is. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 17:54:03 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:54:03 -0500 Subject: RAID Controllers in GTA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101129175403.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:56:54AM -0500, Rafael Carneiro wrote: > I have one of these (it's been running for about 2 years - ESXi 3.5, 4.0 > and more recently 4.1): > http://ncix.com/products/?sku=222268243&vpn=LSI00168&manufacture=LSI%20Logic That's a decent card too by the looks of it. I forgot about LSI. Not in store of course, and looks like they expect 1 to 2 week to deliver one. Now given it is in their toronto warehouse, maybe it won't actually take that long. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 17:56:22 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 12:56:22 -0500 Subject: Gnu C Math Libraries In-Reply-To: <20101128110148.de79bd74.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101127124706.4374a63a.hgibson@eol.ca> <20101128110148.de79bd74.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20101129175622.GY12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:01:48AM -0500, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:15:10 -0500 > ted leslie wrote: > > > just looked it up > > to include standard math library > > > > -lm > > Ted, > > Thank you. That worked. > > It also works for linking, as long as it is at the end of the command line. As the man page for floor says: #include double floor(double x); float floorf(float x); long double floorl(long double x); Link with -lm. That last line was important. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 18:03:36 2010 From: grazer-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Shaw) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 13:03:36 -0500 Subject: RAID Controllers in GTA In-Reply-To: <20101129175403.GX12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101129175403.GX12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: That's the card my client is going with. The problem we ran into is that his Dell SC1425 server has a CERC software assisted SATA RAID controller on it, which ESXi does not support. For the time being, I have just installed CentOS 5.5 on it along with VMware Server 2.0.2. CentOS recognized the raid mirroring and plays nicely with it out of the box, so we have redundancy, which was the main concern. Once the RAID controller comes in, we'll backup the virtual machines to another box, run them there temporarily, install the new controller in this box, build the array, install ESXi, copy the VMs back over and be good to go! Thanks for the input everyone. I'm somewhat new to the city and so I don't know where to pickup the good deals in town. NCIX looks to be a decent place to mailorder from, assuming they have the stock here in Toronto. -jason On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:56:54AM -0500, Rafael Carneiro wrote: >> I have one of these (it's been running for about 2 years - ?ESXi 3.5, 4.0 >> and more recently 4.1): >> http://ncix.com/products/?sku=222268243&vpn=LSI00168&manufacture=LSI%20Logic > > That's a decent card too by the looks of it. ?I forgot about LSI. > > Not in store of course, and looks like they expect 1 to 2 week to > deliver one. ?Now given it is in their toronto warehouse, maybe it won't > actually take that long. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 18:53:40 2010 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:53:40 +0300 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? Message-ID: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> Would you be able to comment on this? Please? http://www.osnews.com/story/24074/US_Government_Censors_70_Websites zb. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:05:04 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:05:04 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF3F6B4.7090506-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> Message-ID: the only thing that you can really be sure of is that its going to get worse before it gets better. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Would you be able to comment on this? Please? > > http://www.osnews.com/story/24074/US_Government_Censors_70_Websites > > zb. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:05:14 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:05:14 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF3F6B4.7090506-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> On 11/29/2010 01:53 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Would you be able to comment on this? Please? > > http://www.osnews.com/story/24074/US_Government_Censors_70_Websites > > zb. Simple: It's time to de-centralize control of core Internet functions so that no one group or country has control. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:11:16 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:11:16 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF3F96A.9090907-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: I remember someone once wanted the UN to take control of the 'Net, that way it would be controlled by all countries. I don't think that would work. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:12:35 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:12:35 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF3F96A.9090907-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Simple: It's time to de-centralize control of core Internet functions so that no one group or country has control. Or better yet: centralize control at Hogwarts, where the best and brightest from the Wizarding community can take control. Now that Voldermorts been... it should be safe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:18:05 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:18:05 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF3F976.7040101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> <4CF3F976.7040101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF3FC6D.7080206@alteeve.com> On 11/29/2010 02:05 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On 29/11/10 10:05 PM, Digimer wrote: >> On 11/29/2010 01:53 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>> Would you be able to comment on this? Please? >>> >>> http://www.osnews.com/story/24074/US_Government_Censors_70_Websites >>> >>> zb. >> >> Simple: It's time to de-centralize control of core Internet functions >> so that no one group or country has control. >> > So far I may understand. Any more comments, please? I am not in Canada. > It it always more difficult understanding the situation from far away. > > zb. It's not a Canadian issue, it's a global one. What is needed are root servers for various services, like DNS, whose authority is granted via a "web of trust". As new servers come online and gain reputation, they will be used. When a root server acts improperly, be it by purpose or fault, it's trust is removed. Clients can then check with various servers and disregard responses from untrusted servers. In this case, the US-owned root DNS servers could have their global trust revoked, this triggering clients to disregard them in favour of root servers with higher trust. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:14:55 2010 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 22:14:55 +0300 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4CF3FBAF.4010108@gmail.com> On 29/11/10 10:12 PM, Timothy Hildred wrote: > Simple: It's time to de-centralize control of core Internet functions > so that no one group or country has control. > > Or better yet: centralize control at Hogwarts, where the best and > brightest from the Wizarding community can take control. Now that > Voldermorts been... it should be safe. I am not sure if I can understand. I am not that good in English. "Hogwarts", "the best and brightest from the Wizarding", "Voldermorts" ? zb. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:20:18 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:20:18 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF3FB0E.6080402-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> <4CF3F976.7040101@gmail.com> <4CF3FB15.6020802@alteeve.com> <4CF3FB0E.6080402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF3FCF2.6010100@alteeve.com> On 11/29/2010 02:12 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Madison, > > But anyway, someone will have a control of that? Who and how? > > Though I did met with that issue, but do not remember details. That's the trick, no one person or group would be in charge. It would be distributed. Authority comes from consensus and can be revoked if enough peers lose trust. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:22:34 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:22:34 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF3F6B4.7090506-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Would you be able to comment on this? Please? > > http://www.osnews.com/story/24074/US_Government_Censors_70_Websites I have mixed feelings here... Many of the sites grabbed were selling clearly counterfeit goods, cheap knock-offs of very expensive handbags, watches, etc.. While I think that someone would have to have more money than brains to pay what some of those brand name product firms charge, I also think those firms have a right to protect their brand names. So, I don't have an issue with the grabbing of the counterfeit goods sales websites. Where I do have an issue is with censoring the torrent indexing websites. In the case of the indexes they are not providing counterfeit or otherwise improper material, just telling you where to find such material. Unless the US Government is also willing to go after Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc. because you can find out about various sorts of criminal / terrorism tools and toys through them I see this as being a little two faced... Colin McGregor > zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:24:18 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:24:18 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF3FBAF.4010108-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> <4CF3FBAF.4010108@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On 29/11/10 10:12 PM, Timothy Hildred wrote: > > Simple: It's time to de-centralize control of core Internet functions so > that no one group or country has control. > > Or better yet: centralize control at Hogwarts, where the best and brightest > from the Wizarding community can take control. Now that Voldermorts been... > it should be safe. > > I am not sure if I can understand. I am not that good in English. > "Hogwarts", "the best and brightest from the Wizarding", "Voldermorts" ? References to the "Harry Potter" series of books and movies : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter Colin McGregor > zb. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:29:27 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:29:27 -0500 Subject: Tape Backup Prices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hello Fellow Tlugers, > I am looking to purchase a Tape Backup, and am unsure the prices and good > providers with cost for value. The tape backup is for a small non-profit > organization. I will be using Bacula for the Tape Backups so it would have > to be supported. > Any suggestions that people might have would be appreciated. I doubt compatibility is much of an issue anymore - any tape drives you can get these days speak SCSI, and the "cheap proprietary WinPC stuff" have gone away. Good tape drives have always been expensive (e.g. - some number of thousands of dollars), and good tapes have always been expensive (e.g. - on the order of $100). - DAT starts at ~ $600 - DLT starts at about $1K - LTO starts at around $1K - AIT starts around $3K Tapes tend to be between $50 and $100, and you likely need to spend nearly the price of the drive on tapes each year to have reasonably fresh tapes if doing daily backups. And you need a systematic scheme to get fragile tapes to some robust offsite location. (Consider that if someone drops a tape on the floor, it's probably broken.) For $3K I could buy a whole bunch of ADATA USB drives: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=15_213_602&item_id=029207 I think I'd rather set up a large scale backup regimen like this using USB disk drives than using tape. Frankly, I expect it to be cheaper and more readily verified. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:34:14 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:34:14 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF3FD47.3030908-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> <4CF3F976.7040101@gmail.com> <4CF3FB15.6020802@alteeve.com> <4CF3FB0E.6080402@gmail.com> <4CF3FCF2.6010100@alteeve.com> <4CF3FD47.3030908@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF40036.3070904@alteeve.com> On 11/29/2010 02:21 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On 29/11/10 10:20 PM, Digimer wrote: >> On 11/29/2010 02:12 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>> Madison, >>> >>> But anyway, someone will have a control of that? Who and how? >>> >>> Though I did met with that issue, but do not remember details. >> >> That's the trick, no one person or group would be in charge. It would >> be distributed. Authority comes from consensus and can be revoked if >> enough peers lose trust. >> > > But anyway, which group will decide? Some details? *No* group. By concensus. Each server decides which peers he/she trusts. Each trust gives the server a vote. Enough votes and the server is "trusted". So for example, when a DNS client sends a request, it checks the trust level of the responding server. If the trust is too low, the answer is discarded and a request is made to another server. Trusted servers could publish the list of other servers that they trust, so clients can keep an up to date list of trusted servers. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:37:39 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:37:39 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF3FC6D.7080206-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> <4CF3F976.7040101@gmail.com> <4CF3FC6D.7080206@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Digimer wrote: > In this case, the US-owned root DNS servers could have their global trust > revoked, this triggering clients to disregard them in favour of root servers > with higher trust. I don't think this was done at the DNS server level, even though that's what the story may have said. After all, the root servers wouldn't respond to any of the requests in question, such as for torrent-finder.com. The root servers only respond for requests for top level domains, such as .com, .net, .edu, .org, info, .aero, .museum, and the 200-ish country code TLDs. DNS for torrent-finder.com is handled via the operator of .com, namely Verisign. I presume that what happened is that the US government served Verisign, a US-based company, with the "takedown request." And I observe that the entire list of names thus far (http://torrentfreak.com/u-s-government-seizes-bittorrent-search-engine-domain-and-more-101126/) are all in .com and .net. The procedure would presumably be different (perhaps to the point of not functioning) for a name registered through a registry not based in the United States. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:35:10 2010 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 22:35:10 +0300 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF40036.3070904-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> <4CF3F976.7040101@gmail.com> <4CF3FB15.6020802@alteeve.com> <4CF3FB0E.6080402@gmail.com> <4CF3FCF2.6010100@alteeve.com> <4CF3FD47.3030908@gmail.com> <4CF40036.3070904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4CF4006E.50406@gmail.com> On 29/11/10 10:34 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 11/29/2010 02:21 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> On 29/11/10 10:20 PM, Digimer wrote: >>> On 11/29/2010 02:12 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>> Madison, >>>> >>>> But anyway, someone will have a control of that? Who and how? >>>> >>>> Though I did met with that issue, but do not remember details. >>> >>> That's the trick, no one person or group would be in charge. It would >>> be distributed. Authority comes from consensus and can be revoked if >>> enough peers lose trust. >>> >> >> But anyway, which group will decide? Some details? > > *No* group. By concensus. Each server decides which peers he/she > trusts. Each trust gives the server a vote. Enough votes and the > server is "trusted". > > So for example, when a DNS client sends a request, it checks the trust > level of the responding server. If the trust is too low, the answer is > discarded and a request is made to another server. > > Trusted servers could publish the list of other servers that they > trust, so clients can keep an up to date list of trusted servers. > But this is not true that there is no group of people who will decide. These who have friendly connections together will decide. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:39:36 2010 From: ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org (Ken Heard) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:39:36 -0500 Subject: The myth of 1% Linux market share. Message-ID: <4CF40178.9060309@heard.name> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In reference to recent chatter on the list about Linux market share, my own view is that that share is -- perhaps willfully in some quarters -- underestimated. The major difficulty is that Linux is not for sale. Microsoft and Apple operating systems are for sale; consequently there is a reference point -- the numbers sold. A further difficulty is that some huge but indeterminable number of computers sold today have a Windows OS already installed on them. Consequently an equally indeterminable number of computer buyers who want to use Linux find themselves forced to buy those computers. After sale they discard the Windows OS and install their favourite flavour of Linux. Statistically however these buyers are numbered with the users of Windows OS users, I myself being among them. Other anecdotal evidence indicates a percentage much higher than 1%. For example, virtually the entire scientific and technological community of all the universities I have ever been associated with are exclusive *nix users. Universities everywhere are Linux repositories. My guess is that world wide, Linux market share for desktops and laptops exceeds 10%. One result of the lack of accurate, verifiable statistics on market share is the perception -- encouraged by Microsoft because Microsoft is probably afraid of Linux -- that only "geeks" -- not "normal" people -- can get Linux to work. Consequently, in spite of the superiority of Linux "nobody" uses it. For further anecdotal information google "market share Linux" and see what Steve Balmer among others has to say about the subject. Ken Heard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkz0AXYACgkQlNlJzOkJmTcRbQCeOo/vbNvqoZoTBTXJkZurBOxl AqEAnAlgJWKWyskseT3etmuZAb36ogTD =olKo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:45:00 2010 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:45:00 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> <4CF3F976.7040101@gmail.com> <4CF3FC6D.7080206@alteeve.com> Message-ID: if you are backing up 50gb (raw) or about 2x-3x that compressed, bluray is a consideration (its what i use), or if large, and ok with multipart. i use panasonic re 50gb bluray with 100year life span, they are a bit pricey now, but should drop alot in next year. I don't trust tapes or harddrives, bluray is simple ( a huge standard), and easy to make a copy and store off site.When you want to upgrade later, you use the old bluray for a pvr system or something similar (it has value). If you are doing more then 100gb raw, and don't want to split up (assuming dual bluray), then maybe its not the best solution, but db backups tend to be quite compressible. tl On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Digimer wrote: >> In this case, the US-owned root DNS servers could have their global trust >> revoked, this triggering clients to disregard them in favour of root servers >> with higher trust. > > I don't think this was done at the DNS server level, even though > that's what the story may have said. > > After all, the root servers wouldn't respond to any of the requests in > question, such as for torrent-finder.com. > > The root servers only respond for requests for top level domains, such > as .com, .net, .edu, .org, info, .aero, .museum, and the 200-ish > country code TLDs. > > DNS for torrent-finder.com is handled via the operator of .com, namely Verisign. > > I presume that what happened is that the US government served > Verisign, a US-based company, with the "takedown request." > > And I observe that the entire list of names thus far > (http://torrentfreak.com/u-s-government-seizes-bittorrent-search-engine-domain-and-more-101126/) > are all in .com and .net. > > The procedure would presumably be different (perhaps to the point of > not functioning) for a name registered through a registry not based in > the United States. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 19:58:37 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:58:37 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> <4CF3F976.7040101@gmail.com> <4CF3FC6D.7080206@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4CF405ED.40508@alteeve.com> On 11/29/2010 02:37 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Digimer wrote: >> In this case, the US-owned root DNS servers could have their global trust >> revoked, this triggering clients to disregard them in favour of root servers >> with higher trust. > > I don't think this was done at the DNS server level, even though > that's what the story may have said. > > After all, the root servers wouldn't respond to any of the requests in > question, such as for torrent-finder.com. > > The root servers only respond for requests for top level domains, such > as .com, .net, .edu, .org, info, .aero, .museum, and the 200-ish > country code TLDs. > > DNS for torrent-finder.com is handled via the operator of .com, namely Verisign. > > I presume that what happened is that the US government served > Verisign, a US-based company, with the "takedown request." > > And I observe that the entire list of names thus far > (http://torrentfreak.com/u-s-government-seizes-bittorrent-search-engine-domain-and-more-101126/) > are all in .com and .net. > > The procedure would presumably be different (perhaps to the point of > not functioning) for a name registered through a registry not based in > the United States. I was making a suggestion in response to a question asked when I proposed de-centralizing control of core Internet resources. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 21:16:03 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 16:16:03 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> <4CF3FBAF.4010108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF41813.3070806@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: >> I am not sure if I can understand. I am not that good in English. >> > "Hogwarts", "the best and brightest from the Wizarding", "Voldermorts" ? >> > References to the "Harry Potter" series of books and movies : > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter > He must be a muggle. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 21:26:05 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 16:26:05 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF41813.3070806-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> <4CF3FBAF.4010108@gmail.com> <4CF41813.3070806@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:16 PM, James Knott wrote: > He must be a muggle. ?;-) Not being into marijuana (the classic use of the term "muggle") or Harry Potter, I'm not directly familiar with such. I suspect, however, that this is a corruption of the perfectly good existing term, "mundane." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundane -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 21:28:23 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 16:28:23 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <20101129173211.GU12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> <20101129173211.GU12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 07:38:57AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> On 10-11-26 01:50 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 01:48:22PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>>> Do your machines have power supplies with active power factor correction? >>> >>> As a general rule, if you have a switch to select between 115 and 230V, >>> then you do NOT have active PFC. ?If you have no selector switch, then >>> you probably do. >>> >> >> wow getting a basic UPS is more complicated and expensive than I >> figured, will have to do more reading up on it. thanks for the info! > > Exactly. ?Rather painful when you want one, but don't really want to > spend that kind of money. > > The cyberpower PP1500SWT2 is the cheapest 1500VA (1000W) I have found, > which is $350 at greytech.com and claims 3 minutes at full load, 11 > minutes at half load. ?Well cheapest with pure sinewave output. $350 is well over 300% what I was planning on paying. It's a steep price to pay, if the battery life is only a few years and my stuff is not mission critical. It's more cheaper to buy a 2nd drive and simply backup my data. My only concerns are a HD crash or data corruption. 3 min on a full load is not enough time to shut down a system properly imho, 10 min sounds reasonable. From this discussion, I am thinking I don't want to drop $100 for something that sucks as a UPS. Anything higher I don't want to consider right now. > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 21:40:31 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 16:40:31 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> <4CF3FBAF.4010108@gmail.com> <4CF41813.3070806@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 16:26, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:16 PM, James Knott wrote: >> He must be a muggle. ?;-) > > Not being into marijuana (the classic use of the term "muggle") or > Harry Potter, I'm not directly familiar with such. > > I suspect, however, that this is a corruption of the perfectly good > existing term, "mundane." > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundane Now you need to read Fables -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fables_(comics) -- because they consider anyone who is not from their worlds to be Mundanes. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 22:11:04 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:11:04 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF424F8.9080804@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > In the case of the indexes they are not providing > counterfeit or otherwise improper material, just telling you where to > find such material. If they are knowingly sending people to those places for the purpose of selling counterfeit goods, then they are aiding criminal activity. What would you think about someone wandering around telling people where they can get a real deal on a Rolex watch? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 22:12:57 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:12:57 -0800 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF3F96A.9090907@alteeve.com> <4CF3FBAF.4010108@gmail.com> <4CF41813.3070806@rogers.com> Message-ID: Ditto Xanth (Piers Anthony) :-) On 2010-11-29 1:41 PM, "Michael Lauzon" wrote: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 16:26, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010... Now you need to read Fables -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fables_(comics) -- because they consider anyone who is not from their worlds to be Mundanes. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 22:13:04 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:13:04 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF424F8.9080804-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF424F8.9080804@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CF42570.7070209@alteeve.com> On 11/29/2010 05:11 PM, James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> In the case of the indexes they are not providing >> counterfeit or otherwise improper material, just telling you where to >> find such material. > > If they are knowingly sending people to those places for the purpose of > selling counterfeit goods, then they are aiding criminal activity. What > would you think about someone wandering around telling people where they > can get a real deal on a Rolex watch? It's not a question of what the website is alledged to be doing. It's: a) The US is making a decision and imposing on third-party jurisdictions b) They websites are being seized on allegation, not convictions. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 22:13:53 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:13:53 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> <20101129173211.GU12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101129221353.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 04:28:23PM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > $350 is well over 300% what I was planning on paying. It's a steep > price to pay, if the battery life is only a few years and my stuff is > not mission critical. It's more cheaper to buy a 2nd drive and simply > backup my data. My only concerns are a HD crash or data corruption. > > 3 min on a full load is not enough time to shut down a system properly > imho, 10 min sounds reasonable. From this discussion, I am thinking I > don't want to drop $100 for something that sucks as a UPS. Anything > higher I don't want to consider right now. Well that is pretty much why I haven't got one for the last machine in the house yet. Now it is unlikely you will be pulling full load (1000W), so the 10 minute range is much more likely. I am not sure how wrong your machine setup has to be to make shutdown take 3 minutes. But as I said earlier, if your power supply has a switch to select the voltage, then there are lots of power supplies for less money you can buy. It's for machine with high efficiency power supplies that you need a good UPS. And it is the electronics in the UPS you are paying for, not really the battery and hence runtime. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 22:19:57 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:19:57 -0500 Subject: Tape Backup Prices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101129221957.GA12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 02:29:27PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > I doubt compatibility is much of an issue anymore - any tape drives > you can get these days speak SCSI, and the "cheap proprietary WinPC > stuff" have gone away. > > Good tape drives have always been expensive (e.g. - some number of > thousands of dollars), and good tapes have always been expensive (e.g. > - on the order of $100). > > - DAT starts at ~ $600 > - DLT starts at about $1K > - LTO starts at around $1K > - AIT starts around $3K DAT is crap (helical scan tapes don't last). I think DLT is dead (replaced by LTO). AIT is dead (again replaced by LTO) as far as I understand it. So LTO is the only long term choice with a future that isn't crap. They are seriously fast too. > Tapes tend to be between $50 and $100, and you likely need to spend > nearly the price of the drive on tapes each year to have reasonably > fresh tapes if doing daily backups. > > And you need a systematic scheme to get fragile tapes to some robust > offsite location. (Consider that if someone drops a tape on the > floor, it's probably broken.) Actually if it is in the case, an LTO tape is likely to survive that. Might break the case, but I doubt the tape cartridge would suffer. No heads in there after all (not like a harddisk). > For $3K I could buy a whole bunch of ADATA USB drives: > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=15_213_602&item_id=029207 > > I think I'd rather set up a large scale backup regimen like this using > USB disk drives than using tape. Frankly, I expect it to be cheaper > and more readily verified. USB is simpler, and slower than tape. USB is also much cheaper (if you use magnetic disks). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 22:34:49 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:34:49 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF424F8.9080804-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF424F8.9080804@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 5:11 PM, James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> In the case of the indexes they are not providing >> counterfeit or otherwise improper material, just telling you where to >> find such material. > > If they are knowingly sending people to those places for the purpose of > selling counterfeit goods, then they are aiding criminal activity. ?What > would you think about someone wandering around telling people where they can > get a real deal on a Rolex watch? If a respected major newspaper does a story on crime in the city that talks about: - It is generally known that on any given evening you can find prostitutes at the intersection of X St. and Y Ave.. - It is generally known that on any given evening you can find drug dealers at the intersection of A St. and B Ave.. - The XYZ Store at 123 Alpha St.has been in trouble with law enforcement for selling stolen goods. would you have said newspaper shut down for helping people find criminal activity? I hope the answer is NO. So long as the newspaper or website announcing about the criminal activity are not making money directly from the crime (ie: selling ad. space is not the same as getting a percentage from each counterfeit item sold) I can live with this. The issue here for me is one of freedom of speech, so long as they are only talking about crime I'm okay with that. Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 22:38:32 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:38:32 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF424F8.9080804@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4CF42B68.50705@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > would you have said newspaper shut down for helping people find > criminal activity? No. In my example it was of someone actually participating with the intent of selling them fraudulent goods, not someone who just happens to report it, with no other interest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 29 23:02:59 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 18:02:59 -0500 Subject: sezing ICANN ??? In-Reply-To: <4CF42B68.50705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF3F6B4.7090506@gmail.com> <4CF424F8.9080804@rogers.com> <4CF42B68.50705@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 5:38 PM, James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> would you have said newspaper shut down for helping people find >> criminal activity? > > No. ?In my example it was of someone actually participating with the intent > of selling them fraudulent goods, not someone who just happens to report it, > with no other interest. So, back to the original issue the 70 domains grabbed by the US Government. I don't have a problem with the government grabbing the domains that were selling counterfeit designer goods (where the website owners were making $$ off each knock-off sold). Where I have a problem is with grabbing sites which were just indexes to where you could find material under copyright, posted without the copyright holders permission. Obviously newspapers doing stories on crime or the people who list of torrent indexing websites hope to make $$ by selling advertising space, but that isn't the same thing as making money off the crime itself. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From david.vangeest-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 00:25:19 2010 From: david.vangeest-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (David van Geest) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 19:25:19 -0500 Subject: The myth of 1% Linux market share. In-Reply-To: <4CF40178.9060309-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF40178.9060309@heard.name> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Ken Heard wrote: > In reference to recent chatter on the list about Linux market share, my > own view is that that share is -- perhaps willfully in some quarters -- > underestimated. ?The major difficulty is that Linux is not > for sale. Microsoft and Apple operating systems are for sale; > consequently there is a reference point -- the numbers sold. > > A further difficulty is that some huge but indeterminable number of > computers sold today have a Windows OS already installed on them. > Consequently an equally indeterminable number of computer buyers who > want to use Linux find themselves forced to buy those computers. ?After > sale they discard the Windows OS and install their favourite flavour of > Linux. Statistically however these buyers are numbered with the users of > Windows OS users, I myself being among them. That's all well and good, but the most common method of measuring OS share is based on the User Agent string from connecting web clients. I don't think anyone has used sale numbers for estimating the 1%. That said, estimating market share based on website stats is also flawed. This article contents that websites that pay to be counted are more likely to be visited by Windows users: http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/09/debunking-the-1-myth.html. I'm not sure the logic is airtight there, but we can certainly agree that the numbers are likely to be skewed. For example, Windows users could make more web requests on average than Linux users..... I don't think that's true, but it's an obvious example of how the stats could be biased. The article above also quotes Steve Ballmer and Microsoft estimating Linux share at 8%, and saying Linux is a competitor. I'm not sure it that's what you're referring to, but it would seem that MS does indeed see Linux as a competitor and isn't underestimating its market share. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 01:42:43 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 20:42:43 -0500 Subject: Tape Backup Prices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101130014243.GA9733@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:20:52AM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote > Hello Fellow Tlugers, > > I am looking to purchase a Tape Backup, and am unsure the prices and good > providers with cost for value. The tape backup is for a small non-profit > organization. I will be using Bacula for the Tape Backups so it would have > to be supported. Why tape? It's so 20th century. A 32 gig USB key is approx $65. Try pricing out 32 gigs worth of reliable tapes, not to mention tape drives. Tapes are an expensive anachronism. Check out the prices at Canada Computers or where ever. This is bog-standard technology, not weird proprietary tech. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 01:53:20 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 20:53:20 -0500 Subject: Writing over a drive using /dev/zero In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101130015320.GB9733@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:55:16AM -0500, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote > Any thoughts? Thanks! The only thing I have to add is that if you're trying to securely wipe a drive, you should use /dev/urandom instead of /dev/zero. And if CSIS or CIA really want the data, they might still be able to retreive most of it. If you really, really want to guarantee the data won't be retreived, you have to take out the platters and disolve them in a vat of acid. If the data on the disk isn't *THAT* sensitive, 3 or 4 passes with /dev/urandom will usually do the trick. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 02:08:22 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 21:08:22 -0500 Subject: The myth of 1% Linux market share. In-Reply-To: References: <4CF40178.9060309@heard.name> Message-ID: <20101130020822.GC9733@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 07:25:19PM -0500, David van Geest wrote > That's all well and good, but the most common method of measuring OS > share is based on the User Agent string from connecting web clients. Let's not forget some idiot websites that deliberately block browsers with client strings other than IE, even though Firefox on Mozilla is perfectly capable of rendering them. It's not as bad as it used to be, but there are still some sites that do it. Linux users who still want to go to those websites masquarade their user agents as IE on Windows in order to get in. Since it's a pain to remember to change user agents each time they visit, these linux users will simply leave their user agents set to IE on Windows all the time. This is another factor that skews statistics. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 03:41:58 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 22:41:58 -0500 Subject: Writing over a drive using /dev/zero In-Reply-To: <20101130015320.GB9733-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20101130015320.GB9733@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 8:53 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:55:16AM -0500, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote > >> Any thoughts? Thanks! > > ?The only thing I have to add is that if you're trying to securely wipe > a drive, you should use /dev/urandom instead of /dev/zero. ?And if CSIS > or CIA really want the data, they might still be able to retreive most > of it. ?If you really, really want to guarantee the data won't be > retreived, you have to take out the platters and disolve them in a vat > of acid. ?If the data on the disk isn't *THAT* sensitive, 3 or 4 passes > with /dev/urandom will usually do the trick. You're quite right that /dev/urandom (or similar - anything that's generating random-ish values) should be pretty good at securely wiping things. It's rather less obvious that it's possible to realistically get "most of the data." Perhaps the NSA has a machine that can en-masse do the kind of differential analysis needed to draw data off an apparently-erased disk. They'd need a special machine that's not available to the commercial disk recovery industry. Yes, an examination under special instruments could get bits off, even after attempted erasure; the trouble is that modern drives have several complications: a) Error correcting encodings lead to there being massively different mappings between where the data physically is and what's being reported to filesystems and applications, and the mappings mayn't be evident. b) Known methods aren't notably fast, and require multiple reads in order to get the variations in magnetic charges needed to get around the erasure. It's liable to take weeks to get data off last generation disks, and worse for terabyte disks. c) Machinery for this will be super-expensive, because, much like the way tape drives are expensive, anything that's not being widely commercially used, but which, rather, is custom, is high-priced. This won't help encourage high performance... It's *conceivable* that there could be some super-secret NSA machine to do the job, but there would be *massive* commercial value in making this available to the commercial data recovery industry, quite likely more than it's worth to keep the technology secret. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 04:58:43 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 20:58:43 -0800 Subject: Writing over a drive using /dev/zero In-Reply-To: References: <20101130015320.GB9733@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: I've always been a fan of DBAN for secure-wiping disks. It have many levels to choose from to ensure it ain't coming back. Of course nothing quite beats thermite, but it's not the safest thing for users ^^ On 2010-11-29 7:42 PM, "Christopher Browne" wrote: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 8:53 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 a... You're quite right that /dev/urandom (or similar - anything that's generating random-ish values) should be pretty good at securely wiping things. It's rather less obvious that it's possible to realistically get "most of the data." Perhaps the NSA has a machine that can en-masse do the kind of differential analysis needed to draw data off an apparently-erased disk. They'd need a special machine that's not available to the commercial disk recovery industry. Yes, an examination under special instruments could get bits off, even after attempted erasure; the trouble is that modern drives have several complications: a) Error correcting encodings lead to there being massively different mappings between where the data physically is and what's being reported to filesystems and applications, and the mappings mayn't be evident. b) Known methods aren't notably fast, and require multiple reads in order to get the variations in magnetic charges needed to get around the erasure. It's liable to take weeks to get data off last generation disks, and worse for terabyte disks. c) Machinery for this will be super-expensive, because, much like the way tape drives are expensive, anything that's not being widely commercially used, but which, rather, is custom, is high-priced. This won't help encourage high performance... It's *conceivable* that there could be some super-secret NSA machine to do the job, but there would be *massive* commercial value in making this available to the commercial data recovery industry, quite likely more than it's worth to keep the technology secret. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 05:42:07 2010 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 00:42:07 -0500 Subject: Writing over a drive using /dev/zero In-Reply-To: References: <20101130015320.GB9733@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I've always been a fan of DBAN for secure-wiping disks. It have many levels > to choose from to ensure it ain't coming back. Of course nothing quite beats > thermite, but it's not the safest thing for users ^^ I have used DBAN in the past as well... but my understanding is that it doesn't work at detecting/erasing external drives connected via USB? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 07:27:20 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 02:27:20 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <20101129221353.GZ12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> <20101129173211.GU12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101129221353.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CF4A758.8010806@gmail.com> On 10-11-29 05:13 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 04:28:23PM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> $350 is well over 300% what I was planning on paying. It's a steep >> price to pay, if the battery life is only a few years and my stuff is >> not mission critical. It's more cheaper to buy a 2nd drive and simply >> backup my data. My only concerns are a HD crash or data corruption. >> >> 3 min on a full load is not enough time to shut down a system properly >> imho, 10 min sounds reasonable. From this discussion, I am thinking I >> don't want to drop $100 for something that sucks as a UPS. Anything >> higher I don't want to consider right now. > > Well that is pretty much why I haven't got one for the last machine in > the house yet. > > Now it is unlikely you will be pulling full load (1000W), so the 10 > minute range is much more likely. > > I am not sure how wrong your machine setup has to be to make shutdown > take 3 minutes. > > But as I said earlier, if your power supply has a switch to select the > voltage, then there are lots of power supplies for less money you can buy. > It's for machine with high efficiency power supplies that you need a > good UPS. And it is the electronics in the UPS you are paying for, > not really the battery and hence runtime. > My system take less than 1 minute to shut down. If the shut-down happens without my involvement, 3 minutes should be OK. If however I am away from my Linux box and I need to initiate a shutdown, save stuff I am working on, a 10 min window would be tolerable. I read a few comments online (from buyers) that the battery goes pretty fast as you stated, that's not comforting. Most of the other comments seem to be from people who just purchased the UPS and pretty much it's they typical omg it worked, I got it up and running in x minutes. Comments like that are useless =) I would love if someone actually pulled the plug on their UPS and reported back what happens, etc. their setup. I read one person complain about a APC UPS making a loud beeping noise every 30 sec and said do you really need that when you're in a blackout and trying to sleep. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 13:10:04 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:10:04 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <4CF4A758.8010806-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> <20101129173211.GU12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101129221353.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF4A758.8010806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF4F7AC.9020003@rogers.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I read a few comments online (from buyers) that the battery goes > pretty fast as you stated, that's not comforting. The intent is to keep the computer up over short interruptions and then cause a graceful shutdown before the battery dies on longer breaks. UPS systems that keep everything running through extended power failures are expensive. When I was at Unitel, we had a battery plant that could keep things going for about 3 days and that was backed up by diesel & turbine generators. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 13:28:57 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:28:57 -0500 Subject: xkcd: Circuit Diagram Message-ID: <4CF4FC19.9040805@rogers.com> For EE types. ;-) http://xkcd.com/730/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 16:15:35 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:15:35 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <4CF4A758.8010806-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> <20101129173211.GU12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101129221353.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF4A758.8010806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101130161535.GB12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 02:27:20AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > My system take less than 1 minute to shut down. If the shut-down happens > without my involvement, 3 minutes should be OK. If however I am away > from my Linux box and I need to initiate a shutdown, save stuff I am > working on, a 10 min window would be tolerable. Pretty much all UPSs work with nut or apcupsd these days, which means you get automatic shutdown when the battery level drops below a programmed level (so setting it to shutdown when there is 3 minutes left on the battery is handy. it won't shutdown on a 5 second power loss, but will for a longer one). > I read a few comments online (from buyers) that the battery goes pretty > fast as you stated, that's not comforting. Most of the other comments > seem to be from people who just purchased the UPS and pretty much it's > they typical omg it worked, I got it up and running in x minutes. > Comments like that are useless =) > > I would love if someone actually pulled the plug on their UPS and > reported back what happens, etc. their setup. I read one person complain > about a APC UPS making a loud beeping noise every 30 sec and said do you > really need that when you're in a blackout and trying to sleep. If you have an APC and use apcupsd, you can in the config tell it to silence the UPS. It is entirely configurable. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 16:22:47 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:22:47 -0500 Subject: Writing over a drive using /dev/zero In-Reply-To: <20101130015320.GB9733-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20101130015320.GB9733@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20101130162247.GC12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 08:53:20PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > The only thing I have to add is that if you're trying to securely wipe > a drive, you should use /dev/urandom instead of /dev/zero. And if CSIS > or CIA really want the data, they might still be able to retreive most > of it. If you really, really want to guarantee the data won't be > retreived, you have to take out the platters and disolve them in a vat > of acid. If the data on the disk isn't *THAT* sensitive, 3 or 4 passes > with /dev/urandom will usually do the trick. I have also read from some security experts that the overwriting with random data is a load of crap that they wish people would stop advising. Who is right I don't know. I don't think I have ever had any data that I didn't consider sufficiently wiped by /dev/zero. To some extent, I think there are easier ways to get at your data than using electron microscopes and the like to find out what your data was before you erased it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 16:25:41 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:25:41 -0500 Subject: Tape Backup Prices In-Reply-To: <20101130014243.GA9733-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20101130014243.GA9733@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20101130162541.GD12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 08:42:43PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > Why tape? It's so 20th century. A 32 gig USB key is approx $65. Try > pricing out 32 gigs worth of reliable tapes, not to mention tape drives. > Tapes are an expensive anachronism. Check out the prices at Canada > Computers or where ever. This is bog-standard technology, not weird > proprietary tech. And an LTO-4 holds 800GB per tape. That's a lot of USB stick swapping. USB stick probably writes at 20MB/s for a good one. The LTO-4 writes at 120MB/s. They are hard to compare. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 16:25:57 2010 From: ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org (Ken Heard) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:25:57 -0500 Subject: The myth of 1% Linux market share. In-Reply-To: References: <4CF40178.9060309@heard.name> Message-ID: <4CF52595.5070400@heard.name> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 David van Geest wrote: > That said, estimating market share based on website stats is also > flawed. This article contents that websites that pay to be counted > are more likely to be visited by Windows users: > http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/09/debunking-the-1-myth.html. I'm > not sure the logic is airtight there, but we can certainly agree that > the numbers are likely to be skewed. For example, Windows users could > make more web requests on average than Linux users..... I don't think > that's true, but it's an obvious example of how the stats could be > biased. Before my original post I had not read the article referred to above but had read some of the references in it which I found independently, in particular those relating to Steve Ballmer. The points I made are reinforced in this article and the comments thereon. > The article above also quotes Steve Ballmer and Microsoft estimating > Linux share at 8%, and saying Linux is a competitor. I'm not sure it > that's what you're referring to, Yes. > but it would seem that MS does indeed > see Linux as a competitor and isn't underestimating its market share. All in all, I think my guess of 10%+ is closer to the mark that Ballmer's 8%. Also of interest is that the Linux market share is "significantly" above Mac's, but software, drivers, etc., for Macs are eagerly supplied by manufacturers. Why? Because Bill Gates at a critical moment kept Mac afloat so that he could claim that Microsoft is not really a monopoly. Until Linux gets more respect, we Linux users have to fight to be able to use hardware. The survival of so many manufacturers depends on that all-important Microsoft certification; in addition they cater to Mac with Microsoft's tacit approval. Because however of the power of Microsoft, many probably feel that if they cater to Linux as well they may suffer financially -- a sort of self-regulation is probably at work here. Ken Heard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkz1JZQACgkQlNlJzOkJmTc+7gCfWs+dvkfRdjl3gy5ldDiULkgQ 238Anj+DiQXMPPaYmiC8JbvWS8M8/g2h =2/9/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 16:36:37 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:36:37 -0500 Subject: Tape Backup Prices In-Reply-To: <20101130162541.GD12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101130014243.GA9733@waltdnes.org> <20101130162541.GD12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4CF52815.2040506@alteeve.com> On 11/30/2010 11:25 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 08:42:43PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: >> Why tape? It's so 20th century. A 32 gig USB key is approx $65. Try >> pricing out 32 gigs worth of reliable tapes, not to mention tape drives. >> Tapes are an expensive anachronism. Check out the prices at Canada >> Computers or where ever. This is bog-standard technology, not weird >> proprietary tech. > > And an LTO-4 holds 800GB per tape. That's a lot of USB stick swapping. 800gb native or 2:1 compressed? > USB stick probably writes at 20MB/s for a good one. The LTO-4 writes > at 120MB/s. > > They are hard to compare. My biggest problem with tape has always been their tendency to silently fail. Sure, doing monthly mock restores help to catch this, but clients rarely remember to do so. These days, I'd recommend an external drive carrier with eSATA for backup. You should easily get 40+MB/sec. Use rsync and backups happen very quickly. If you really want speed, then install an SSD into the eSATA carrier. Even modest SSDs boast ~200MB/sec write speeds. -- Digimer E-Mail: digimer-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 16:42:36 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:42:36 -0500 Subject: Writing over a drive using /dev/zero In-Reply-To: References: <20101130015320.GB9733@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: > You're quite right that /dev/urandom (or similar - anything that's > generating random-ish values) should be pretty good at securely wiping > things. > > It's rather less obvious that it's possible to realistically get "most > of the data." > > Perhaps the NSA has a machine that can en-masse do the kind of > differential analysis needed to draw data off an apparently-erased > disk. ?They'd need a special machine that's not available to the > commercial disk recovery industry. > > Yes, an examination under special instruments could get bits off, even > after attempted erasure; the trouble is that modern drives have > several complications: > a) Error correcting encodings lead to there being massively different > mappings between where the data physically is and what's being > reported to filesystems and applications, and the mappings mayn't be > evident. > b) Known methods aren't notably fast, and require multiple reads in > order to get the variations in magnetic charges needed to get around > the erasure. ?It's liable to take weeks to get data off last > generation disks, and worse for terabyte disks. > c) Machinery for this will be super-expensive, because, much like the > way tape drives are expensive, anything that's not being widely > commercially used, but which, rather, is custom, is high-priced. ?This > won't help encourage high performance... > > It's *conceivable* that there could be some super-secret NSA machine > to do the job, but there would be *massive* commercial value in making > this available to the commercial data recovery industry, quite likely > more than it's worth to keep the technology secret. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Well said Christopher. This is something I am very doubtful about. In fact, I am reasonably as in 80 % sure it impossible to extract data from a drive that has been overwritten with zeros using dd. You do not have to fill it, lets say overwrite 60% of the drive. I once got curious and decided to do my most and look for any information on how its done. I googled for ever, went to the library and scanned through any possible book I could see about data recovery. As far as I can tell, nobody has ever written anything informative about this. Sure, it could be top secret, but if it was possible, someone in the civilian world would have come up with something close, just as it happened with public cryptography. Actually now that I have mentioned cryptography, I have just realized this is also an information theory problem. If it is eventually proved to be practical for one to reconstruct data from a drive filled with zeros, that will be the day Shannon theory will also die. I have also tried to find where this story originated in the past, and I could not find its origin. I suspect though it could be from a hard disk manufacture. They have benefited a lot from this unproven theory. That is my opinion however William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 17:01:53 2010 From: ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org (Ken Heard) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 12:01:53 -0500 Subject: SPF registration In-Reply-To: <51976bbbbe168065162672c54ebf39f4.squirrel-WP0MdrOK9TXNee2asFQpfbDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <4CE82929.3030005@heard.name> <51976bbbbe168065162672c54ebf39f4.squirrel@www.jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <4CF52E01.8040603@heard.name> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jason Carson wrote: > I believe Sadiq had the same error using Google Apps about a month ago and > solved it by using the following SPF entry (It's all one line)... > > v=spf1 a mx ptr mx:ALT1.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM mx:ALT2.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM > mx:ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM mx:ASPMX2.GOOGLEMAIL.COM mx:ASPMX3.GOOGLEMAIL.COM > -all I put this string in my browser (Iceweasel) opening line after http://www.openspf.org/Why?, with no space between the question mark and the "v", and hit "enter". Since Sadiq said that it takes up to 48 hours to be effective, I waited three days to post to TLUG. I have since made three successful posts including this one; so it appears what I did worked. I am not sure I understand what I did. While I use teksavvy as my ISP, for outgoing mail I use smtp.gmail.com with SSL set and port 465. Perhaps because I was using that outgoing mail server I needed all those google references in the string. Thanks for the tip. Ken Heard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkz1LgAACgkQlNlJzOkJmTcNNgCfWiYjf1mw/QwE0wT6lrBgi8cQ J+cAnA6GBuchSfCt0gNxR4ZL34cSZjtU =QBBL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 17:04:38 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 12:04:38 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <20101130161535.GB12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> <20101129173211.GU12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101129221353.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF4A758.8010806@gmail.com> <20101130161535.GB12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 30 November 2010 11:15, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 02:27:20AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> My system take less than 1 minute to shut down. If the shut-down happens >> without my involvement, 3 minutes should be OK. If however I am away >> from my Linux box and I need to initiate a shutdown, save stuff I am >> working on, a 10 min window would be tolerable. > > Pretty much all UPSs work with nut or apcupsd these days, which means you > get automatic shutdown when the battery level drops below a programmed > level (so setting it to shutdown when there is 3 minutes left on the > battery is handy. ?it won't shutdown on a 5 second power loss, but will > for a longer one). > >> I read a few comments online (from buyers) that the battery goes pretty >> fast as you stated, that's not comforting. Most of the other comments >> seem to be from people who just purchased the UPS and pretty much it's >> they typical omg it worked, I got it up and running in x minutes. >> Comments like that are useless =) >> >> I would love if someone actually pulled the plug on their UPS and >> reported back what happens, etc. their setup. I read one person complain >> about a APC UPS making a loud beeping noise every 30 sec and said do you >> really need that when you're in a blackout and trying to sleep. > > If you have an APC and use apcupsd, you can in the config tell it to > silence the UPS. ?It is entirely configurable. You can also get out your soldering iron (or maybe just wire snippers) and remove the beeper from the main board of the UPS, as a friend of mine did this past weekend with two of his UPSes. If you're not using it with a computer (a phone system or video perhaps?) this may even be necessary if you want it silent. Be careful: the inside of a UPS is much more likely to have high voltage points than the inside of a regular computer. Also, a note about batteries: as discussed, they're usually pretty easy to replace when they die, and cost significantly less than replacing the entire unit. No soldering involved. I've done this at least once (my memory says twice, but I'm a little shaky on that), and the after-market battery was better than the original battery was even in its new state. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 17:14:25 2010 From: ted.leslie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 12:14:25 -0500 Subject: The myth of 1% Linux market share. In-Reply-To: <4CF52595.5070400-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4CF40178.9060309@heard.name> <4CF52595.5070400@heard.name> Message-ID: Its no where near 10% or 8%. In both neighborhoods i have lived in recently were I have talked to neighbors about computers, I was only linux user. In my family, cousins, uncles, parents, brothers, etc .... 3 linux users (that includes my wife), 4 mac users, ~100 windows users. In my job were i supported a linux boot CD/DVD to a work force of 100's (1000's but i actually only interfaced with 100's) 1 linux user (a son of one of employees), but that was of a populous made up of work at home people 80% female. HP published something way back about 2% linux users in tech support. Factoring outside NA, i would guess +/- .5% , linux desktop/MID/netbook use at 2%, in NA i would guess 1% to 1.5% (+/- .5%). If it was anywhere close to 8-10%, you wouldn't call up rogers , or bell, or your bank , with tech support issues, and have them treat you like you were from another planet. As well ubuntu's download number, and other distro's even factoring in that one download, can led to a few installs, etc, etc, it is hard to get it above 2%. You can believe it is 8-10%, but I am 99.9999% sure you are way way off base. If linux can dominate PVR, cellphones, MIDS, fridges, TV's, etc, etc, yeah it can grow to 10+%, but you are going outside the "desktop" use. The problem Linux has is, Vista was BAD, apple has marketing money, they went from <1% to 6-8% (with help too from their i-crap products), but Linux doesn't market, so they can't generally succeed in a space that involved marketing to gain growth. I bought Win7 because it is brutal using VISTA, and i have to use Visio because linux has nothing even in the same universe as Visio (unfortunately). And, guess what, Win7 is actually "OK", and I can tell you its now not a product that people have to escape from , if they are MS cool-aid drinkers. Win7 doesn't crash, its fairly fast startup/shutdown, sleep/hiber work well, security warning are reasonable. Having said that, there is bugs in Visio that they should fix, but that is an app. issue. Bottom line is Win7 is very usable, and Vista was not. There is no reason for your typical pablum feed Windows user to now seek out a alternative. Linux will only now gain traction in the small device (and embedded) market, which is probably why Mark Shuttleworth is doing the desktop gui changes to Ubuntu, its directed at that segment. In fact, I would guess Linux and especially Mac may actually lose some on the desktop going forward, as for the first time in a long time, MS isn't selling pure crap now. (and with intel catching up on the MID device chips, that opens up for Windows too unfortunately, makes having to use Win on MIDS less of a engineering issue). Now having said all that, if Russia, and others really are standardizing their country on Linux, well obviously that will led to greater % of adoption in time as well. anyways, its 2% (you heard it hear first) :) call up 500 people at random from a phone book of GTA, do a poll, if you get more then 10 linux users in that poll, i'd be really surprised. That is a way you can easily get your answer. tl On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Ken Heard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > David van Geest wrote: > >> That said, estimating market share based on website stats is also >> flawed. ?This article contents that websites that pay to be counted >> are more likely to be visited by Windows users: >> http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/09/debunking-the-1-myth.html. ?I'm >> not sure the logic is airtight there, but we can certainly agree that >> the numbers are likely to be skewed. ?For example, Windows users could >> make more web requests on average than Linux users..... I don't think >> that's true, but it's an obvious example of how the stats could be >> biased. > > Before my original post I had not read the article referred to above but > had read some of the references in it which I found independently, in > particular those relating to Steve Ballmer. ?The points I made are > reinforced in this article and the comments thereon. > >> The article above also quotes Steve Ballmer and Microsoft estimating >> Linux share at 8%, and saying Linux is a competitor. ?I'm not sure it >> that's what you're referring to, > > Yes. > >> but it would seem that MS does indeed >> see Linux as a competitor and isn't underestimating its market share. > > All in all, I think my guess of 10%+ is closer to the mark that > Ballmer's 8%. ?Also of interest is that the Linux market share is > "significantly" above Mac's, but software, drivers, etc., for Macs are > eagerly supplied by manufacturers. ?Why? ?Because Bill Gates at a > critical moment kept Mac afloat so that he could claim that Microsoft is > not really a monopoly. > > Until Linux gets more respect, we Linux users have to fight to be able > to use hardware. ?The survival of so many manufacturers depends on that > all-important Microsoft certification; in addition they cater to Mac > with Microsoft's tacit approval. ?Because however of the power of > Microsoft, many probably feel that if they cater to Linux as well they > may suffer financially -- a sort of self-regulation is probably at work > here. > > Ken Heard > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkz1JZQACgkQlNlJzOkJmTc+7gCfWs+dvkfRdjl3gy5ldDiULkgQ > 238Anj+DiQXMPPaYmiC8JbvWS8M8/g2h > =2/9/ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 20:22:41 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:22:41 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> <20101129173211.GU12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101129221353.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF4A758.8010806@gmail.com> <20101130161535.GB12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101130202241.GE12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:04:38PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote: > You can also get out your soldering iron (or maybe just wire snippers) > and remove the beeper from the main board of the UPS, as a friend of > mine did this past weekend with two of his UPSes. If you're not using > it with a computer (a phone system or video perhaps?) this may even be > necessary if you want it silent. Be careful: the inside of a UPS is > much more likely to have high voltage points than the inside of a > regular computer. At least the APC Smart-UPS have a config option for it that you can set with a computer and save in the eeprom of the UPS. So you can change the behaviour without permanent damage. > Also, a note about batteries: as discussed, they're usually pretty > easy to replace when they die, and cost significantly less than > replacing the entire unit. No soldering involved. I've done this at > least once (my memory says twice, but I'm a little shaky on that), and > the after-market battery was better than the original battery was even > in its new state. Certainly worth doing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 20:32:12 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:32:12 -0500 Subject: The myth of 1% Linux market share. In-Reply-To: References: <4CF40178.9060309@heard.name> <4CF52595.5070400@heard.name> Message-ID: <20101130203212.GF12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:14:25PM -0500, ted leslie wrote: > Its no where near 10% or 8%. > In both neighborhoods i have lived in recently were I have talked to > neighbors about computers, I was only linux user. > In my family, cousins, uncles, parents, brothers, etc .... 3 linux > users (that includes my wife), 4 mac users, ~100 windows users. > In my job were i supported a linux boot CD/DVD to a work force of > 100's (1000's but i actually only interfaced with 100's) 1 linux user > (a son of one of employees), > but that was of a populous made up of work at home people 80% female. > HP published something way back about 2% linux users in tech support. > Factoring outside NA, i would guess +/- .5% , linux > desktop/MID/netbook use at 2%, > in NA i would guess 1% to 1.5% (+/- .5%). > If it was anywhere close to 8-10%, you wouldn't call up rogers , or > bell, or your bank , with tech support issues, and have them treat you > like you were from another planet. > As well ubuntu's download number, and other distro's even factoring in > that one download, can led to a few installs, etc, etc, it is hard to > get it above 2%. > You can believe it is 8-10%, but I am 99.9999% sure you are way way off base. > If linux can dominate PVR, cellphones, MIDS, fridges, TV's, etc, etc, > yeah it can grow to 10+%, but you are going outside the "desktop" use. > The problem Linux has is, Vista was BAD, apple has marketing money, > they went from <1% to 6-8% (with help too from their i-crap products), > but Linux doesn't market, so they can't generally succeed in a space > that involved marketing to gain growth. > I bought Win7 because it is brutal using VISTA, and i have to use > Visio because linux has nothing even in the same universe as Visio > (unfortunately). > And, guess what, Win7 is actually "OK", and I can tell you its now not > a product that people have to escape from , if they are MS cool-aid > drinkers. > Win7 doesn't crash, its fairly fast startup/shutdown, sleep/hiber work > well, security warning are reasonable. Having said that, there is bugs > in Visio that they should fix, > but that is an app. issue. Bottom line is Win7 is very usable, and > Vista was not. There is no reason for your typical pablum feed Windows > user to now seek out a alternative. > Linux will only now gain traction in the small device (and embedded) > market, which is probably why Mark Shuttleworth is doing the desktop > gui changes to Ubuntu, its directed at that segment. > In fact, I would guess Linux and especially Mac may actually lose some > on the desktop going forward, as for the first time in a long time, MS > isn't selling pure crap now. > (and with intel catching up on the MID device chips, that opens up for > Windows too unfortunately, makes having to use Win on MIDS less of a > engineering issue). > > Now having said all that, if Russia, and others really are > standardizing their country on Linux, well obviously that will led to > greater % of adoption in time as well. > > anyways, its 2% (you heard it hear first) :) > > call up 500 people at random from a phone book of GTA, do a poll, if > you get more then 10 linux users in that poll, i'd be really > surprised. > That is a way you can easily get your answer. How many companies are using linux? Where I am we have a lot of linux machines. How many servers? Almost all wifi routers that people have out there are linux. How many android phones are there now? How many little home NAS units are out there? Do you only count if it is a desktop machine? If so, then the fact the desktop may some day be irrelevant means you are measuring a useless value. it is just like people thinking x86 machines are the main thing out there. Well there were over a billion ARM devices sold this year. More than half those were cell phones. That's a lot of computers. As for whether Microsoft is selling crap or not, who knows. At least they are charging way too much for a desktop OS. You pay almost as much for the OS as the hardware in many cases these days. That's just wrong. Unless you are a share holder in Microsoft, which is of course the only case they care much about you. Measuring desktop users reminds me of statistics on who plays computer games. People complain that there aren't enough women playing computer games. Of course when gathering statistics, the first thing they do is say "flash games like bejewled and such aren't real games, so those don't count'. Well there goes 80% of the games being played and most of the female gamers (who if you include those flash games actually outnumber male computer game players). So once you screw up the statistics, you can then proceed to complain that there aren't enough female gamers. Well duh, you just decided that the majority of them didn't count as gamers. So by deciding linux users don't count unless they are running kde or gnome and firefox as a desktop machine and doing word processing, well then you have in fact already decided what you wanted the result to be. Microsoft likes the desktop business and will fight hard to keep that business even as google and others try to move applications online and make the desktop irrelevant and only a user interface device. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 20:54:36 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 15:54:36 -0500 Subject: SMTP Question Message-ID: <20101130205436.GA18060@yam.witteman.ca> Here is the question: I want to set up some laptops to send email (Thunderbird) from wherever they are. Can I set up Postfix to do this for me with SASL+TLS so I don't end up on a blacklist for being a spam relay? If this is the right approach, can someone point me at a set of instructions up found useful (Debian, postfix, dovecot)? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 21:08:35 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:08:35 -0500 Subject: java ssl management - keytool assistance Message-ID: Hello Got a quick question. I got an tomcat running on a box and currently uses a self signed certificate. We purchases a real PKCS certificate recently and I am struggling swapping the old self signed certificate for the verisign issued certificate. Actually, java seem to have accepted the certificate, but after restarting tomcat, pointing firefox to the tomcat server still make the browser complain that the certificate is not valid - in another word, tomcat is still using the old certificate. This is how I went about it /usr/java/jdk1.6.0_21/bin/keytool -import -alias tomcat -keystore /usr/java/jdk1.6.0_21/jre/lib/security/cacerts -file key_pkcs3.txt This run successfully and when I run it again, failed with an error message that the certificate is already installed. Which is a positive thing I guess. When I run /usr/java/jdk1.6.0_21/bin/keytool -list -keystore /usr/java/jdk1.6.0_21/jre/lib/security/cacerts I can see the certificate on the list. I have removed the alias that I had used to install the self signed certificate, but this have not helped. What could I be missing here? William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 21:31:42 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:31:42 -0500 Subject: SMTP Question In-Reply-To: <20101130205436.GA18060-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20101130205436.GA18060@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4CF56D3E.6040308@dinamis.com> On 11/30/2010 03:54 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Here is the question: > > I want to set up some laptops to send email (Thunderbird) from wherever > they are. Can I set up Postfix to do this for me with SASL+TLS so I don't > end up on a blacklist for being a spam relay? > > If this is the right approach, can someone point me at a set of > instructions up found useful (Debian, postfix, dovecot)? Thanks. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 21:34:09 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:34:09 -0500 Subject: Tape Backup Prices In-Reply-To: <4CF52815.2040506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101130014243.GA9733@waltdnes.org> <20101130162541.GD12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF52815.2040506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20101130213409.GG12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:36:37AM -0500, Digimer wrote: > 800gb native or 2:1 compressed? Native. > My biggest problem with tape has always been their tendency to silently > fail. Sure, doing monthly mock restores help to catch this, but clients > rarely remember to do so. LTO has the read head behind the write head and does an immediate read verify as part of the write cycle. So no silent failures on LTO. In fact if will write out extra error recovery code and copies of the data if it detects small read errors on the tape. DDS/DAT tapes on the other hand do fail a lot, and silently. Most people don't do read after write checking because it doubles the backup time (LTO was VERY clever in their drive design), and being helical scan there is lots of wear on the tape and drive head. LTO is linear and has almost no wear on the tape and head. Tapes last much longer on LTO and rarely fail, and because you can even deal with bad spots on a tape transparently at write time, the tape really does stay useable much longer. One thing you can't do with LTO is bulk erase. There are permanent servo tracks on the tape that the bulk eraser gets rid off turning the tape useless. Very effective to permanently erase your tape, but you aren't able to ever reuse it again. I have a box sitting on my shelf that says "Do not degauss this package!" on it. > These days, I'd recommend an external drive carrier with eSATA for > backup. You should easily get 40+MB/sec. Use rsync and backups happen > very quickly. If you really want speed, then install an SSD into the > eSATA carrier. Even modest SSDs boast ~200MB/sec write speeds. eSATA is certainly nice. USB is too slow to compare with decent tape drives. rsync is nice too, but it does mean that as a trade off in making a backup update much much faster, you don't actually check that the existing data on the drive really is what it should be, unless you tell rsync to verify everything by reading, although that certainly slows it down a lot. That's the tradeoff. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 21:58:27 2010 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:58:27 -0500 Subject: java ssl management - keytool assistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe try: 1. cd $JAVA_HOME/jre/lib/security 2. $JAVA_HOME/jre/bin/keytool -delete -alias youralias -keystore jssecacerts -storepass yourpassword 3. $JAVA_HOME/jre/bin/keytool -importcert -alias youralias -keystore jssecacerts -storepass yourpassword -file key_pkcs3.txt Randy On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:08 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hello > > Got a quick question. ?I got an tomcat running on a box and currently > uses a self signed certificate. We purchases a real PKCS certificate > recently and I am struggling swapping the old self signed certificate > for the verisign issued certificate. ?Actually, java seem to have > accepted the certificate, but after restarting tomcat, pointing > firefox to the tomcat server still make the browser complain that the > certificate is not valid - in another word, tomcat is still using the > old certificate. > > This is how I went about it > > /usr/java/jdk1.6.0_21/bin/keytool -import -alias tomcat ?-keystore > /usr/java/jdk1.6.0_21/jre/lib/security/cacerts -file key_pkcs3.txt > > This run successfully and when I run it again, failed with an error > message that the certificate is already installed. ?Which is a > positive thing I guess. > > When I run > > /usr/java/jdk1.6.0_21/bin/keytool -list ?-keystore > /usr/java/jdk1.6.0_21/jre/lib/security/cacerts > > I can see the certificate on the list. > > I have removed the alias that I had used to install the self signed > certificate, but this have not helped. > > What could I be missing here? > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 22:23:25 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 17:23:25 -0500 Subject: Tape Backup Prices In-Reply-To: <20101130162541.GD12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20101130014243.GA9733@waltdnes.org> <20101130162541.GD12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20101130222325.GA17870@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:25:41AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 08:42:43PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > > Why tape? It's so 20th century. A 32 gig USB key is approx $65. Try > > pricing out 32 gigs worth of reliable tapes, not to mention tape drives. > > Tapes are an expensive anachronism. Check out the prices at Canada > > Computers or where ever. This is bog-standard technology, not weird > > proprietary tech. > > And an LTO-4 holds 800GB per tape. That's a lot of USB stick swapping. > > USB stick probably writes at 20MB/s for a good one. The LTO-4 writes > at 120MB/s. > > They are hard to compare. eSATA or USB3 should bring the harddisk option into the same ball park... okey, factor of 2. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 22:39:05 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 17:39:05 -0500 Subject: ups power supply In-Reply-To: <20101130202241.GE12911-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4CEF5EDA.3080205@gmail.com> <20101126184822.GN12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101126185050.GO12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF0FBE1.2000506@gmail.com> <20101129173211.GU12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101129221353.GZ12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4CF4A758.8010806@gmail.com> <20101130161535.GB12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101130202241.GE12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:04:38PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote: >> You can also get out your soldering iron (or maybe just wire snippers) >> and remove the beeper from the main board of the UPS, as a friend of >> mine did this past weekend with two of his UPSes. ?If you're not using >> it with a computer (a phone system or video perhaps?) this may even be >> necessary if you want it silent. ?Be careful: the inside of a UPS is >> much more likely to have high voltage points than the inside of a >> regular computer. > > At least the APC Smart-UPS have a config option for it that you can set > with a computer and save in the eeprom of the UPS. ?So you can change > the behaviour without permanent damage. > >> Also, a note about batteries: as discussed, they're usually pretty >> easy to replace when they die, and cost significantly less than >> replacing the entire unit. ?No soldering involved. ?I've done this at >> least once (my memory says twice, but I'm a little shaky on that), and >> the after-market battery was better than the original battery was even >> in its new state. > > Certainly worth doing. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- I'll check out the APC units, about battery replacement, I am assuming you need to have the tower ones =) I had another one of those 1 sec power outage and it shutdown my system. So it looks like I will need to get one or risk damage to my system if this continues. I wish those things would go on sale already! Thank for all the feedback everyone. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav | DevMentor.org | Do Good! ~ Share Freely GNU/Linux: 2.6.35-22-generic Kubuntu x86_64 10.10 | KDE 4.5.1 Ruby 1.9.2p0 | Rails 3.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 30 23:09:45 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 18:09:45 -0500 Subject: Tape Backup Prices In-Reply-To: <20101130222325.GA17870-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20101130014243.GA9733@waltdnes.org> <20101130162541.GD12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20101130222325.GA17870@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20101130230945.GH12911@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 05:23:25PM -0500, William Park wrote: > eSATA or USB3 should bring the harddisk option into the same ball > park... okey, factor of 2. You can certainly get harddisks that do 80MB/s. Not sure about 120 (and some LTO drives are up in the 140 to 150MB/s I believe). Of course to use an LTO drive you need either a SCSI or more likely SAS connection. Not something every machine is likely to have. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists