From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 01:11:24 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Just a test Message-ID: I sent an email to the list but I never received a copy of it... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 02:08:00 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:08:00 -0400 Subject: Just a test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BDB8D00.4040702@rogers.com> Jason Carson wrote: > I sent an email to the list but I never received a copy of it... > I didn't see it either. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 02:43:12 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Just a test In-Reply-To: <4BDB8D00.4040702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BDB8D00.4040702@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1f4db6d1fcea3f40097de6624866abd3.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Hmmm... I didn't receive the email I sent but you did. For some reason I am not receiving any of the emails I send to this list or another list I am on. Both are using different mailing lists software. Anyone have any idea why? > Jason Carson wrote: >> I sent an email to the list but I never received a copy of it... >> > > I didn't see it either. ;-) > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From shinoj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 02:54:21 2010 From: shinoj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (shinoj vg) Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 08:24:21 +0530 Subject: Just a test In-Reply-To: <1f4db6d1fcea3f40097de6624866abd3.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: ,<4BDB8D00.4040702@rogers.com>,<1f4db6d1fcea3f40097de6624866abd3.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: May be the mail client config is the problem ;) > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:43:12 -0400 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Just a test > From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Hmmm... > > I didn't receive the email I sent but you did. > > For some reason I am not receiving any of the emails I send to this list > or another list I am on. Both are using different mailing lists software. > > Anyone have any idea why? > > > Jason Carson wrote: > >> I sent an email to the list but I never received a copy of it... > >> > > > > I didn't see it either. ;-) > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Bollywood This Decade http://entertainment.in.msn.com/bollywoodthisdecade/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 03:20:31 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:20:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Just a test In-Reply-To: References: ,<4BDB8D00.4040702@rogers.com>,<1f4db6d1fcea3f40097de6624866abd3.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <0862dd6eb4cb47004d19be4f00f77d56.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> I'll check it out and see if that is the problem, thanks for the suggestion. > > > May be the mail client config is the problem ;) > > > >> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:43:12 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Just a test >> From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> >> Hmmm... >> >> I didn't receive the email I sent but you did. >> >> For some reason I am not receiving any of the emails I send to this list >> or another list I am on. Both are using different mailing lists >> software. >> >> Anyone have any idea why? >> >> > Jason Carson wrote: >> >> I sent an email to the list but I never received a copy of it... >> >> >> > >> > I didn't see it either. ;-) >> > >> > -- >> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > _________________________________________________________________ > Bollywood This Decade > http://entertainment.in.msn.com/bollywoodthisdecade/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 03:28:38 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Just a test In-Reply-To: References: ,<4BDB8D00.4040702@rogers.com>,<1f4db6d1fcea3f40097de6624866abd3.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <48d2a97a62e136787f405edb3ce0af5f.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> What I don't understand is that you guys all receive the emails I send. Yahoo/Gmail/Hotmail all receive emails I send. I receive the emails you guys and others write but for some reason the emails I send to 2 different mailing lists never appear for me??? > > > May be the mail client config is the problem ;) > > > >> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:43:12 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Just a test >> From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> >> Hmmm... >> >> I didn't receive the email I sent but you did. >> >> For some reason I am not receiving any of the emails I send to this list >> or another list I am on. Both are using different mailing lists >> software. >> >> Anyone have any idea why? >> >> > Jason Carson wrote: >> >> I sent an email to the list but I never received a copy of it... >> >> >> > >> > I didn't see it either. ;-) >> > >> > -- >> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > _________________________________________________________________ > Bollywood This Decade > http://entertainment.in.msn.com/bollywoodthisdecade/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 03:34:22 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:34:22 -0400 Subject: Just a test In-Reply-To: <48d2a97a62e136787f405edb3ce0af5f.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <48d2a97a62e136787f405edb3ce0af5f.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <20100501033422.GA5112@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 11:28:38PM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: > What I don't understand is that you guys all receive the emails I send. > Yahoo/Gmail/Hotmail all receive emails I send. I receive the emails you > guys and others write but for some reason the emails I send to 2 different > mailing lists never appear for me??? Well, I receive my own emails to TLUG. So, I don't think it's a problem with TLUG mailing list software. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 16:41:58 2010 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 12:41:58 -0400 Subject: Just a test In-Reply-To: <48d2a97a62e136787f405edb3ce0af5f.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: ,<4BDB8D00.4040702@rogers.com>,<1f4db6d1fcea3f40097de6624866abd3.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <48d2a97a62e136787f405edb3ce0af5f.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <4BDC59D6.8000607@alteeve.com> Jason Carson wrote: > What I don't understand is that you guys all receive the emails I send. > Yahoo/Gmail/Hotmail all receive emails I send. I receive the emails you > guys and others write but for some reason the emails I send to 2 different > mailing lists never appear for me??? > > Could it be you spam filtered emails addressed From yourself? (I did this once...) Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teecee-3xpccZqdWRo7lZ9V/NTDHw at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 16:46:01 2010 From: teecee-3xpccZqdWRo7lZ9V/NTDHw at public.gmane.org (TeeCee) Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 12:46:01 -0400 Subject: Laptop Repair Recommendation - Apology In-Reply-To: <4BD5B107.10103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100421173041.GA24289@yam.witteman.ca> <8CCB3630B564C73-144C-119E@web-mmc-m09.sysops.aol.com> <4BD5B107.10103@rogers.com> Message-ID: <8CCB764EAD380AF-1AA8-1CF8@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> Sorry for the bad grammar. The Medical Arts building should stop intermittently disappearing by the end of the day, depending on your knowledge. I keep forgetting that bad grammar and coding don't mix. I can't say the same for the rain stopping though. Linux In The Park your on your own. Hopefully one of you guys can craft up a perl one liner to take care of things. TC -----Original Message----- From: James Knott To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 11:28 am Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Laptop Repair Recommendation TeeCee wrote: > I know this response is a little stale to the topic, but if you are > downtown and know the corner of Augusta and College, there is a big > mostly medical arts building And if you don't know the corner there is no medical arts building? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 20:34:25 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 16:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Just a test In-Reply-To: <4BDC59D6.8000607-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: ,<4BDB8D00.4040702@rogers.com>,<1f4db6d1fcea3f40097de6624866abd3.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <48d2a97a62e136787f405edb3ce0af5f.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <4BDC59D6.8000607@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <58afff76daf6bbba22e287ac0a94458c.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> > Jason Carson wrote: >> What I don't understand is that you guys all receive the emails I send. >> Yahoo/Gmail/Hotmail all receive emails I send. I receive the emails you >> guys and others write but for some reason the emails I send to 2 >> different >> mailing lists never appear for me??? >> >> > > Could it be you spam filtered emails addressed From yourself? > (I did this once...) > I just checked in case this was the problem but it wasn't. I'm baffled. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 20:58:27 2010 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 16:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Just a test Message-ID: <201005012058.o41KwR6U097205@gc0.generalconcepts.com> | > Jason Carson wrote: | >> What I don't understand is that you guys all receive the emails I send. | >> Yahoo/Gmail/Hotmail all receive emails I send. I receive the emails you | >> guys and others write but for some reason the emails I send to 2 | >> different | >> mailing lists never appear for me??? Mailing list software can be configured to send you a copy of your own messages, or to not send you a copy of your own messages. Mailman, for example, uses the "not metoo" setting to indicate that you should not receive copies of your own postings. Perhaps the mailing lists you are on don't send you copies of your own posts by default. In some cases that may be a global setting, in others a per-subscriber setting. I don't know what mailing list software the tlug list uses. In many cases, you may be able to check if your messages are getting to the list by examining the list archives. The tlug archives are at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/ Sometimes a messgae that says "test message" may be thought to be spam, or noise, and be either rejected, or held for review by the list owner. Or even by your own spam filters. Similarly, messages to mailing lists that include lines indicating a desire to join or leave the list are often rejected. There are very few cases in which it makes any sense at all for a list member to send a "test message" to everyone else on a mailing list. If you suspect you're having problems with a list, contact the list owner, who is likely in the best position to help you. For all the other people on the list, it's just useless noise. Hope that helps. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 01:54:29 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 21:54:29 -0400 Subject: Just a test In-Reply-To: <201005012058.o41KwR6U097205-KXptd8nw1xHC8fiuoqhjLId3RwegZlz3@public.gmane.org> References: <201005012058.o41KwR6U097205@gc0.generalconcepts.com> Message-ID: <8C10E87C-8D10-4B49-A99C-CB0D6F6CA57A@gmail.com> On 2010-05-01, at 16:58, John Sellens wrote: > | > Jason Carson wrote: > | >> What I don't understand is that you guys all receive the emails > I send. > | >> Yahoo/Gmail/Hotmail all receive emails I send. I receive the > emails you > | >> guys and others write but for some reason the emails I send to 2 > | >> different > | >> mailing lists never appear for me??? > > Mailing list software can be configured to send you a copy of your > own messages, or to not send you a copy of your own messages. > Mailman, for example, uses the "not metoo" setting to indicate > that you should not receive copies of your own postings. > > Perhaps the mailing lists you are on don't send you copies > of your own posts by default. In some cases that may be a > global setting, in others a per-subscriber setting. > > I don't know what mailing list software the tlug list uses. It has been using Majordomo for lo many years, with some antispam customization. There gave been plans to migrate to Mailman for several years, but it awaits Drew having enough Round Tuits :-). I don't imagine there's too much magic behind the scenes - I'm pretty sure it isn't filtering on the basis of seeing "Test" as subject, particularly when we're seeing the messages! But it is quite possible, nay likely, that it's leaving the sender off the list of recipients on the basis that sender has obviously already seen the message. I think that's what I normally observe (or, I suppose, don't!) > In many cases, you may be able to check if your messages > are getting to the list by examining the list archives. > The tlug archives are at: > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/ > > Sometimes a messgae that says "test message" may be thought > to be spam, or noise, and be either rejected, or held for > review by the list owner. Or even by your own spam filters. > Similarly, messages to mailing lists that include lines > indicating a desire to join or leave the list are often rejected. > > There are very few cases in which it makes any sense at all > for a list member to send a "test message" to everyone else > on a mailing list. If you suspect you're having problems > with a list, contact the list owner, who is likely in the > best position to help you. For all the other people on > the list, it's just useless noise The list isn't read by the admin (which strikes me as a potential sore point, tho I leave it pretty unexamined), so I wouldn't be too inclined to be terribly critical of this as "misuse" of the list. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 02:53:22 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 22:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Just a test In-Reply-To: <8C10E87C-8D10-4B49-A99C-CB0D6F6CA57A-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <201005012058.o41KwR6U097205@gc0.generalconcepts.com> <8C10E87C-8D10-4B49-A99C-CB0D6F6CA57A@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 May 2010, Christopher Browne wrote: > But it is quite possible, nay likely, that it's leaving the sender off the > list of recipients on the basis that sender has obviously already seen the > message. I think that's what I normally observe (or, I suppose, don't!) I certainly do see my posts to this list, which is how I like it for all lists. On 2010-05-01, at 16:58, John Sellens wrote: >> There are very few cases in which it makes any sense at all >> for a list member to send a "test message" to everyone else >> on a mailing list. If you suspect you're having problems >> with a list, contact the list owner, who is likely in the >> best position to help you. For all the other people on >> the list, it's just useless noise On the few cases that I've felt the need to send a test message (ie, alternatives like contacting the list admin have failed) I disguise it as a joke. I get to see my message back and (hopefully) everyone gets a laugh. A lot of lists will filter out posts that have "test" in the subject line, so sending a raw test message may return false data anyway :) Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org IRC: Solver Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 21:03:53 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 17:03:53 -0400 Subject: Belkin N150 router wireless light won't come on Message-ID: <20100502210353.GA8034@waltdnes.org> I'm trying to connect to a Belkin N150 wireless router with a netbook running Gentoo. I know that that the netbook's wireless works, because I've surfed the web at a Toronto Public Library free wifi hotspot. My home setup. I have an ST546 4-port ADSL modem/router connected to my ISP. My home LAN is 192.168.123.248/29 (range from .248 to .255). The external interface is 192.168.123.252/29, and internally it's 192.168.2.1/24. The Belkin's yellow ethernet port is connected to the ST546. For testing, my netbook is connected to the N150 via the wired jack as 192.168.2.2/24. ___________________________ | ST 546 192.168.123.254 | -|-----------------------|-- ______________________ | | |netbook 192.168.2.2 | | | --|------------------- | | | _____________________ _|_______|_____________ | PC 192.168.123.251| | WAN 192.168.123.252 | --------------------- | LAN 192.168.2.1 | N150 ----------------------- The wired setup works perfectly; I can ssh from the netbook to the PC, and from the PC to the netbook. Both machines can surf the web, etc. My problem is the wireless setup. I've manually set up the WPA-PSK as per the instructions. I've enabled DHCP with range of 1 address 192.168.2.9, since I only expect the one client. I've enabled b/g/n (my netbook is b/g). but I'll cut it down to g-only once I figure things out. For my passphrase I've enabled all printable characters from ascii 32 to 126. I've turned off the Belkin's firewall and netbook's firewall while testing. No difference. I've changed the essid to "linksys1234" to confuse the enemy. It shows up in a wlan0 scan like so... Cell 02 - Address: 00:22:75:BA:24:BB Channel:4 Frequency:2.427 GHz (Channel 4) Quality=70/70 Signal level=-32 dBm Encryption key:on ESSID:"linksys1234" Bit Rates:1 Mb/s; 2 Mb/s; 5.5 Mb/s; 11 Mb/s; 18 Mb/s 24 Mb/s; 36 Mb/s; 54 Mb/s Bit Rates:6 Mb/s; 9 Mb/s; 12 Mb/s; 48 Mb/s Mode:Master Extra:tsf=000000035a59826f Extra: Last beacon: 1122ms ago IE: Unknown: 000B6C696E6B73797331323334 IE: Unknown: 010882848B9624B0486C IE: Unknown: 030104 IE: Unknown: 2A0100 IE: Unknown: 2F0100 IE: IEEE 802.11i/WPA2 Version 1 Group Cipher : TKIP Pairwise Ciphers (2) : CCMP TKIP Authentication Suites (1) : PSK IE: Unknown: 32048C129860 IE: Unknown: DD090010180200F0010000 IE: WPA Version 1 Group Cipher : TKIP Pairwise Ciphers (2) : CCMP TKIP My startup script is similar to the successful script I ran at the library hotspot. It goes like so... #!/bin/bash sudo /sbin/rmmod ath5k sudo /sbin/modprobe ath5k sudo /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 restart sudo /sbin/ifconfig wlan0 up sudo /sbin/iwconfig wlan0 essid any channel auto sudo /usr/bin/killall -3 wpa_supplicant sudo /usr/sbin/wpa_supplicant -B -iwlan0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf.home sudo /sbin/dhcpcd -C resolv.conf -C mtu wlan0 When I run it, dhcpcd fails like so... wlan0: dhcpcd 4.0.15 starting wlan0: waiting for carrier wlan0: timed out The config file /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf.home (generated with the help of wpa_passphrase) contains... network={ scan_ssid=1 #psk=63 character gobbledygook passphrase psk=a long series of hex numbers } To generate a gobbledygook passphrase, I use... head -c 2048 /dev/urandom | tr -dc \ -~ | head -c 63 -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 21:02:51 2010 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 17:02:51 -0400 Subject: Change we can believe in? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/posted/archive/2010/04/27/pirate-party-of-canada-gains-party-status.aspx > > > Earlier this month Canada's chief electoral officer gave the Pirate Party of > Canada party status, which means the burgeoning party can field candidates > in the next election, raise money and issue tax receipts. > > The party, which advocates copyright and patent reform, net neutrality and > privacy among its key platform planks, first started in Sweden but now has > branches in the U.K., Australia and many other European countries. I'm in, but I'm also a little biased. :-) We did get some publicity in the last week, and earlier today I did an interview with CHCH News. That'll air on CHCH News at 6pm (and 11pm) for those who're interested. Cheers, - Scott -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 04:21:52 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 00:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Jobs may be threatening Ogg Theora Message-ID: It looks as if Jobs replied to this open letter (could be a hoax). See the first reply. "A patent pool is being assembled to go after Theora and other ?open source? codecs now." You don't need a patent pool to "go after" an open source codec. Each patent holder can do that. Why would you form a pool? Oh, and the first thing you need to do is issue a cease and desist letter. Letting a violation continue, without notice, hurts your case in law I think (not sure about that). According to , indirect infringement requires knowledge of the infringement and that would seem to require notice for certainty. >From : "A threat to bring a patent infringement action is highly likely to influence the commercial conduct of the person threatened, which is why the law of some countries, including the UK, provides that the making of a groundless threat to sue is, within certain carefully prescribed limits, an actionable wrong in itself." [10] Very odd. From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 13:48:04 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 09:48:04 -0400 Subject: Jobs may be threatening Ogg Theora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's a bluff, obviously. But most of the press is not versed in patent laws, so the FUD is already there. Microsoft made this sort of thing into an art, and now Apple (or whoever wrote this) is simply following suit. - FZ On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 00:21, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > > It looks as if Jobs replied to this open letter (could be a hoax). ?See > the first reply. > > ? ?"A patent pool is being assembled to go after Theora and other > ? ??open source? codecs now." > > You don't need a patent pool to "go after" an open source codec. ?Each > patent holder can do that. ?Why would you form a pool? > > Oh, and the first thing you need to do is issue a cease and desist letter. > Letting a violation continue, without notice, hurts your case in law I > think (not sure about that). ?According to > , > indirect infringement requires knowledge of the infringement and that > would seem to require notice for certainty. > > From : > > ? ?"A threat to bring a patent infringement action is highly likely > ? ?to influence the commercial conduct of the person threatened, > ? ?which is why the law of some countries, including the UK, provides > ? ?that the making of a groundless threat to sue is, within certain > ? ?carefully prescribed limits, an actionable wrong in itself." [10] > > Very odd. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 16:58:04 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 12:58:04 -0400 Subject: Jobs may be threatening Ogg Theora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100503165804.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 03, 2010 at 09:48:04AM -0400, Fabio FZero wrote: > It's a bluff, obviously. > > But most of the press is not versed in patent laws, so the FUD is > already there. Microsoft made this sort of thing into an art, and now > Apple (or whoever wrote this) is simply following suit. Well after all H.264 is what apple has hardware decoding support for, so that's what they want people to use. Their hardware can't decode theora so they would loose huge amounts of battery life if they had to support that. Better to make sure people don't start getting any ideas. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 18:34:37 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 14:34:37 -0400 Subject: Maxtor Drive issue... Message-ID: A friend of mine from WAY back has just arrive in Toronto with a dead Maxtor drive. The drive was in an external USB case, and by mistake he connected an 18 volt power supply to the 12 volt connector... I had hoped when I spoke to my friend that the only thing damaged would be the USB to EIDE adapter, but there is visible damage to one of the chips on the drive itself. So as I see his options: - Find another Maxtor MaXLine II 300GB ATA/133 HD and attempt a drive control replacement (can anyone help here?). - Turn it over to a professional data recovery firm (any suggestions as to who is good / local / reasonably prices). Thanks. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 18:41:47 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 14:41:47 -0400 Subject: Maxtor Drive issue... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > A friend of mine from WAY back has just arrive in Toronto with a dead > Maxtor drive. The drive was in an external USB case, and by mistake he > connected an 18 volt power supply to the 12 volt connector... I had > hoped when I spoke to my friend that the only thing damaged would be > the USB to EIDE adapter, but there is visible damage to one of the > chips on the drive itself. So as I see his options: > > - Find another Maxtor MaXLine II 300GB ATA/133 HD and attempt a drive > control replacement (can anyone help here?). > - Turn it over to a professional data recovery firm (any suggestions > as to who is good / local / reasonably prices). Perhaps post a close-up photo of the damaged chip and neighbourhood? If it is "just" the onboard regulator or a common part you might find somebody to do a chip swap. But yes, board swap sounds good if available. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 21:04:34 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 17:04:34 -0400 Subject: Maxtor Drive issue... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100503210434.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 03, 2010 at 02:34:37PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > A friend of mine from WAY back has just arrive in Toronto with a dead > Maxtor drive. The drive was in an external USB case, and by mistake he > connected an 18 volt power supply to the 12 volt connector... I had > hoped when I spoke to my friend that the only thing damaged would be > the USB to EIDE adapter, but there is visible damage to one of the > chips on the drive itself. So as I see his options: The USB adapter part is actually powered by the USB bus. Only the drive is powered by the power connector. > - Find another Maxtor MaXLine II 300GB ATA/133 HD and attempt a drive > control replacement (can anyone help here?). There are so many things that could go wrong there. Firmware version differences, whether the defect block map is stored on the drive or in flash on the controller board, etc. > - Turn it over to a professional data recovery firm (any suggestions > as to who is good / local / reasonably prices). I have never had to use one, so no idea. Certainly the platter ought to be in perfect condition in this case. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 21:32:29 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 17:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Maxtor Drive issue... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor | Maxtor drive. The drive was in an external USB case, and by mistake he | connected an 18 volt power supply to the 12 volt connector... I had | hoped when I spoke to my friend that the only thing damaged would be | the USB to EIDE adapter, but there is visible damage to one of the | chips on the drive itself. So as I see his options: | | - Find another Maxtor MaXLine II 300GB ATA/133 HD and attempt a drive | control replacement (can anyone help here?). Maybe this would work, maybe not. You probably need a more precise model number. Perhaps 5A300J0 Perhaps googling around this forum might help: Or this one: | - Turn it over to a professional data recovery firm (any suggestions | as to who is good / local / reasonably prices). Very expensive for a good job, I've heard. You can also pay a lot for a bad job. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 21:37:36 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 17:37:36 -0400 Subject: Maxtor Drive issue... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:32 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Colin McGregor > > | Maxtor drive. The drive was in an external USB case, and by mistake he > | connected an 18 volt power supply to the 12 volt connector... I had > | hoped when I spoke to my friend that the only thing damaged would be > | the USB to EIDE adapter, but there is visible damage to one of the > | chips on the drive itself. So as I see his options: > | > | - Find another Maxtor MaXLine II 300GB ATA/133 HD and attempt a drive > | control replacement (can anyone help here?). > > Maybe this would work, maybe not. > > You probably need a more precise model number. ?Perhaps 5A300J0 > > Perhaps googling around this forum might help: > ? > Or this one: > ? > > | - Turn it over to a professional data recovery firm (any suggestions > | as to who is good / local / reasonably prices). > > Very expensive for a good job, I've heard. ?You can also pay a lot for > a bad job. Lawyers trying to get data from clients hard drives for court drive the price up. There are FLOSS tools for this. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 22:30:49 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 18:30:49 -0400 Subject: Maxtor Drive issue... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:32 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> | From: Colin McGregor >> >> | Maxtor drive. The drive was in an external USB case, and by mistake he >> | connected an 18 volt power supply to the 12 volt connector... I had >> | hoped when I spoke to my friend that the only thing damaged would be >> | the USB to EIDE adapter, but there is visible damage to one of the >> | chips on the drive itself. So as I see his options: >> | >> | - Find another Maxtor MaXLine II 300GB ATA/133 HD and attempt a drive >> | control replacement (can anyone help here?). >> >> Maybe this would work, maybe not. >> >> You probably need a more precise model number. ?Perhaps 5A300J0 >> >> Perhaps googling around this forum might help: >> ? >> Or this one: >> ? >> >> | - Turn it over to a professional data recovery firm (any suggestions >> | as to who is good / local / reasonably prices). >> >> Very expensive for a good job, I've heard. ?You can also pay a lot for >> a bad job. > > Lawyers trying to get data from clients hard drives for court drive > the price up. > > There are FLOSS tools for this. The Floss tools still require a working drive. A good recovery shop will be able to take a broken drive apart and spin up the platters with special hardware to read them. -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 10:53:11 2010 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 06:53:11 -0400 Subject: Belkin N150 router wireless light won't come on In-Reply-To: <20100502210353.GA8034-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>; from waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org on Sun, May 02, 2010 at 17:03:53 -0400 References: <20100502210353.GA8034@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100504105311.GA1851@localhost> Since I haven't seen any other replies, I'll offer some generic advice. Start with the simplest setup and work your way up. - Disconnect the N150 from eveything so that it is "stand alone". This way, if anyone tries to attack you during testing, they can only get to the N150 itself, and possibly the netbook (back up the netbook). - Disable all security/encryption then try to connect to the N150 in unsecured mode. Also disable DHCP and just set static IP addresses in the N150 and netbook. Get to the point that you can ping the N150 and talk to its HTTP configuration interface. - Now enable DHCP and get that working so that, again, the netbook can communicate with the N150. - Next, enable encryption and get things working again. You may want to try WEP encryption before getting WPA working. If you have trouble anywhere above, you might wan't to try a few live CD or USB distributions on the netbook in case it's a problem specific to your Gentoo setup. - Once you can talk to the N150 itself over a secure wireless link, you can re-connect the N150 to the ST546. Now get the netbook talking to the ST546 (through ping, web interface, ssh, whatever). - Finally, work on netbook to PC communication. Note that since the netbook is on a different network than the ST546 and PC, you may need to set up static routes in one or more of the devices, or use a routing protocol (such as RIP or OSPF). This may not be necessary if you're using NAT/PAT on the N150. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 18:25:57 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 14:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux Symposium Message-ID: I again encourage everyone to consider going to the Linux Symposium in Ottawa July 13-16. It's a great conference. I think that I've only missed two years, so I'm speaking from experience. It's *not* a trade show. No booths hawking snake-oil. Lots of talks about Linux technology by the people who built it or want to improve it. It's also great to get into informal discussions with these folks, speakers or not. I've screwed up my courage on a few occasions to invite interesting people to share a meal. Well worth the potential embarrassment. Beer-drinking is a useful but not mandatory skill. The conference proceeding (printed versions of talks) are available online for many previous years. Here's the web page: The best thing on that page is the sentence with my name :-) Several TLUGers have gone in previous years but not as many as I would hope. This year I know I'm going and so is Lennart. Hey, there's a draw: almost none of you have met Lennart -- here's your chance! It's great to support a local-ish venue like this. The next best conference might be Linux Conference Australia, which is a lot less convenient for almost all of us (even when they hold it in New Zealand). Hints (i.e. things that have worked for me): - I like to go by train. Carpool is good too. RedFlag Deals has helped me find good Via Rail deals a few times. I flew one year because of an amazing seat sale. - OC Transpo is a reasonable bus system. Some busses are particularly fast because they have dedicated rights-of-way. I mostly use it to get from and to the train station. Stupidity: you need tickets or exact change (I think) and yet they don't sell tickets at the train station. - I like to stay in the University of Ottawa residence. Rent a Suite because the regular rooms lack airconditioning and can be unbearable. Ask for the conference rate. You get two bedrooms and a kitchen, so room sharing is a good idea. About $100 a night, split two ways, is quite reasonable. A 10 or 15 minute walk to the conference. - Others have found good rates with various hotel-booking websites. - The youth hostel in the old jail is really close to the conference but it doesn't sound as attractive. - Les Suites is good and close but more expensive. So: who else is going? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 18:45:29 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 14:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: deal: HP Touchsmart touchscreen all-in-one desktop computer $699 Message-ID: I think that this is an interesting form-factor for a computer: 22" LCD touchscreen with built-in decent computer (not an Atom). Things to note: - comes with Vista; Win7 is probably a better choice for touch screens - used to be a bit of a struggle to put Ubuntu on it but 10.04 seems to work right out of the box. See I'm assuming that the IQ506 and IQ516 are the same in this respect. - the TV tuner is probably not supported by Linux - The CPU does not have VT - the touch screen is "multitouch" (bi-touch?) and I have no idea what X does with that. As a desktop, this seems well kitted-out. A bit like an iMac, but with a touchscreen, and cheaper. I'd like to play with one, but I cannot think of a reason/excuse that it would be particularly useful for me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 19:15:53 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 12:15:53 -0700 Subject: Touchscreens (was: Touchsmart touchscreen all-in-one desktop computer $699) Message-ID: I'd be happy to find LCD touchscreen stuff that I know would work with 'nix. I have a 7" Lilliput that *used* to work years ago when I had a 2.4 kernel with X11 (Debian). It had a driver which I had to compile, but other than editing a source file to swap the X&Y it worked great. Now I've got a newer kernel and X.org, and with the eGalax driver, and the darn thing will NOT calibrate properly. I've manually entered values, tried using "evtouch" with the configurator, etc etc. No luck. Usually it starts OK at the top and then by about halfway down the cursor is off in la-la-land. Anyone know what touchscreen drivers exist that don't suck (other than, assumedly, WACOM, of course... and even those seem touchy at times)? On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:45 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > > I think that this is an interesting form-factor for a computer: 22" > LCD touchscreen with built-in decent computer (not an Atom). > > Things to note: > > - comes with Vista; Win7 is probably a better choice for touch screens > > - used to be a bit of a struggle to put Ubuntu on it but 10.04 seems to > ?work right out of the box. ?See > > ?I'm assuming that the IQ506 and IQ516 are the same in this respect. > > - the TV tuner is probably not supported by Linux > > - The CPU does not have VT > > - the touch screen is "multitouch" (bi-touch?) and I have no idea what > ?X does with that. > > As a desktop, this seems well kitted-out. ?A bit like an iMac, but > with a touchscreen, and cheaper. > > I'd like to play with one, but I cannot think of a reason/excuse that > it would be particularly useful for me. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 20:12:27 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 16:12:27 -0400 Subject: Linux Symposium In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100504201227.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 04, 2010 at 02:25:57PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I again encourage everyone to consider going to the Linux Symposium in > Ottawa July 13-16. > > It's a great conference. I think that I've only missed two years, so I'm > speaking from experience. > > It's *not* a trade show. No booths hawking snake-oil. Lots of talks > about Linux technology by the people who built it or want to improve it. > > It's also great to get into informal discussions with these folks, > speakers or not. I've screwed up my courage on a few occasions to invite > interesting people to share a meal. Well worth the potential > embarrassment. Beer-drinking is a useful but not mandatory skill. > > The conference proceeding (printed versions of talks) are available online > for many previous years. > > > Here's the web page: > The best thing on that page is the sentence with my name :-) > > Several TLUGers have gone in previous years but not as many as I would > hope. This year I know I'm going and so is Lennart. Hey, there's a draw: > almost none of you have met Lennart -- here's your chance! I want to go. I paid (but can get a refund by June if I can't go). I figured pay early to get the lowest rate, and work out the details later. I went the last two years and it was very useful and a great learning experience. I have always learned something that has been useful for my work. I hope my job will let me go again. > It's great to support a local-ish venue like this. The next best > conference might be Linux Conference Australia, which is a lot less > convenient for almost all of us (even when they hold it in New Zealand). > > Hints (i.e. things that have worked for me): > > - I like to go by train. Carpool is good too. RedFlag Deals has > helped me find good Via Rail deals a few times. I flew one year > because of an amazing seat sale. > > - OC Transpo is a reasonable bus system. Some busses are particularly > fast because they have dedicated rights-of-way. I mostly use it to > get from and to the train station. Stupidity: you need tickets or > exact change (I think) and yet they don't sell tickets at the train > station. I believe Vancouver airport has a similar problem. > - I like to stay in the University of Ottawa residence. Rent a > Suite because the regular rooms lack airconditioning and can be > unbearable. Ask for the conference rate. You get two bedrooms and a > kitchen, so room sharing is a good idea. About $100 a night, split > two ways, is quite reasonable. A 10 or 15 minute walk to the > conference. > > - Others have found good rates with various hotel-booking websites. > > - The youth hostel in the old jail is really close to the conference > but it doesn't sound as attractive. Oh, I walked by that when at the show two years ago and wondered what that was about. > - Les Suites is good and close but more expensive. > > So: who else is going? Well I am hoping. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 22:36:44 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 15:36:44 -0700 Subject: Geeks and covert insults Message-ID: A co-worker passed this one by me. It's a bit dated, but while it is initially somewhat amusing, it seems that an "infantile prank" can quickly degrade into a rather serious discussion, and then back into a rather infantile discussion about whether it's appropriate to issue an essentially out-of-phase update for removal. Looking at this, it makes me again think about what types of things we leave as our "legacy" online. In the day and age of blogging, logging, and archiving, do we really want to limit our professional reputations by having one of our legacies be a piece of code asking somebody to, as paraphrased by Leif be "consuming buckets of phalli" Certainly not the type of thing I'd want my future (or current) employer to find when looking up code I'd committed, or things I'd posted in a forum/newsgroup/etc http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=477454 Anyhow. Just an item for thought and discussion. -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA "You can't herd cats, but you can move their food" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 23:14:17 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 19:14:17 -0400 Subject: Linux Symposium In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:25 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I again encourage everyone to consider going to the Linux Symposium in > Ottawa July 13-16. I don't see myself being able to make it to that event, but I have added a link to Linux Symposium to the GTALug list of upcoming events here: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Events [snip] Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 00:14:19 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 20:14:19 -0400 Subject: Geeks and covert insults In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 6:36 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > A co-worker passed this one by me. It's a bit dated, but while it is > initially somewhat amusing, it seems that an "infantile prank" can > quickly degrade into a rather serious discussion, and then back into a > rather infantile discussion about whether it's appropriate to issue an > essentially out-of-phase update for removal. It would not leave me thinking well of the coder responsible, and the world is small enough for there to be a likelihood of adverse effects. This would give the fellow a good couple strikes against if doing job search. Indeed, i'd be generally unkeen on collaboration with such.? A project with such dysfunction has a problem. There used to be an essay by some of the red-bean/Subversion devs about this; they suggested the thought that if there are people that are problematic to work with, projects shouldn't be going out of their way to accommodate them. Life's too short to accept dealing with jerks, and it's worth considering that if you don't want to work with them, you mayn't be alone, and this is liable to injure the project's ability to attract helpful people. > Looking at this, it makes me again think about what types of things we > leave as our "legacy" online. In the day and age of blogging, logging, > and archiving, do we really want to limit our professional reputations > by having one of our legacies be a piece of code asking somebody to, > as paraphrased by Leif be "consuming buckets > of phalli" > > Certainly not the type of thing I'd want my future (or current) > employer to find when looking up code I'd committed, or things I'd > posted in a forum/newsgroup/etc > ?http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=477454 I saw this a long time ago, and it rang mighty true. "never post anything you don't want to see on your resume..." -- Martin Minow There's certainly a difference between disagreeing and being disagreeable. As much as the code in that bug report may cause some giggling, it definitely comes down on the "disagreeable" side! -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 00:21:27 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 20:21:27 -0400 Subject: Linux Symposium In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:25 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> I again encourage everyone to consider going to the Linux Symposium in >> Ottawa July 13-16. > > I don't see myself being able to make it to that event, but I have > added a link to Linux Symposium to the GTALug list of upcoming events > here: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Events It's getting rather late for logistics, but there are two other significant Ottawa events upcoming: a) BSDCan, May 13-14. http://bsdcan.org b) PGCon, May 20-21 http://pgcon.org I'm on the program committee for the latter :-). Both are listed on the the wiki, and attract the "core teams" for their respective specialties, so are quite authoritative for their development communities. It's a little disappointing that OLS isn't formally the "core Linux folk" event, but I comprehend their desire to spread that around. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 02:19:33 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 22:19:33 -0400 Subject: Maxtor Drive issue... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > A friend of mine from WAY back has just arrive in Toronto with a dead > Maxtor drive. The drive was in an external USB case, and by mistake he > connected an 18 volt power supply to the 12 volt connector... I had > hoped when I spoke to my friend that the only thing damaged would be > the USB to EIDE adapter, but there is visible damage to one of the > chips on the drive itself. So as I see his options: > > - Find another Maxtor MaXLine II 300GB ATA/133 HD and attempt a drive > control replacement (can anyone help here?). > - Turn it over to a professional data recovery firm (any suggestions > as to who is good / local / reasonably prices). > > Thanks. > > Colin. I just wanted to say thanks to everyone. My friend is on his way back home and will be taking the drive in to an Ottawa based data recovery firm for a quote (Ottawa and Montreal are closer to him than Toronto). Fingers crossed the Ottawa firm can sort things out for him... Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 02:25:56 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 22:25:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Geeks and covert insults In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 May 2010, Christopher Browne wrote: > Life's too short to accept dealing with jerks, and it's worth Absolutely. Whenever I see insults like that over something related to a computer, I always think (and often suggest) that the person turn their computer off and go outside for a while. They need to keep things in perspective. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org IRC: Solver Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 12:24:54 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 08:24:54 -0400 Subject: Linux Symposium In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BE16396.1080607@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I again encourage everyone to consider going to the Linux Symposium in > Ottawa July 13-16. "Symposium" Etymology: Latin, from Greek symposion, from sympinein to drink together, from syn- + pinein to drink Cheers! ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 13:53:46 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 09:53:46 -0400 Subject: Linux Symposium In-Reply-To: <4BE16396.1080607-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE16396.1080607@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 08:24, James Knott wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> >> I again encourage everyone to consider going to the Linux Symposium in >> Ottawa July 13-16. > > "Symposium" > Etymology: Latin, from Greek symposion, from sympinein to drink together, > from syn- + pinein to drink > > Cheers! ?;-) Professor Hubert Farnsworth: Good news, everyone. Tomorrow, you'll all be making a delivery to Ebola 9, the virus planet. Hermes: Why can't they go today? Professor Hubert Farnsworth: Because tonight's a special night and I want you all to be alive. It's the Academy of Inventors annual symposium. Fry: Wow, I love symposia! - FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 16:25:34 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 12:25:34 -0400 Subject: deal: HP Touchsmart touchscreen all-in-one desktop computer $699 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 May 2010 14:45, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > > I think that this is an interesting form-factor for a computer: 22" > LCD touchscreen with built-in decent computer (not an Atom). > > Things to note: > > - comes with Vista; Win7 is probably a better choice for touch screens > > - used to be a bit of a struggle to put Ubuntu on it but 10.04 seems to > ?work right out of the box. ?See > > ?I'm assuming that the IQ506 and IQ516 are the same in this respect. > > - the TV tuner is probably not supported by Linux > > - The CPU does not have VT > > - the touch screen is "multitouch" (bi-touch?) and I have no idea what > ?X does with that. Multitouch has been supported in X for since mid-2008. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPX) Of course that doesn't mean the drivers are there, but it's moving along. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 16:47:42 2010 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 12:47:42 -0400 Subject: CBC galleries now dysfunctional ? Message-ID: <4BE1A12E.1070901@linuxcaffe.ca> I occasionally peruse CBC.ca and sometimes look atthe image galleries. now they don't seem to work (ubuntu+firefox+flash10) work for anyone else on a similar platform ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 16:55:33 2010 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 12:55:33 -0400 Subject: CBC galleries now dysfunctional ? In-Reply-To: <4BE1A12E.1070901-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE1A12E.1070901@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4BE1A305.1020004@linuxcaffe.ca> On 10-05-05 12:47 PM, David J Patrick wrote: > I occasionally peruse CBC.ca and sometimes look atthe image galleries. > > now they don't seem to work (ubuntu+firefox+flash10) i just found a big pile of this; LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared library /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/lib/i386/IcedTeaPlugin.so [libxul.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory] soooooo.... mystery solved ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 19:31:28 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 15:31:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CBC galleries now dysfunctional ? In-Reply-To: <4BE1A12E.1070901-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE1A12E.1070901@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: | From: David J Patrick | I occasionally peruse CBC.ca and sometimes look atthe image galleries. | | now they don't seem to work (ubuntu+firefox+flash10) | | work for anyone else on a similar platform ? I don't know if it is relevant (it is about videos), but have a look at this. And send your complaint to the CBC (I have). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 19:41:56 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 15:41:56 -0400 Subject: CBC galleries now dysfunctional ? In-Reply-To: References: <4BE1A12E.1070901@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: The following might be relevant as well, as I just found this recently: http://hackademix.net/2010/05/04/bug-in-ubuntu-1004-crashing-your-desktop-via-firefox-noscript/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 01:45:58 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 21:45:58 -0400 Subject: May OpenStreetMap meetups Message-ID: Dear All, If you think OpenStreetMap is interesting, well, you are correct. We have OSM meetups every once in a while. Beginner and experienced mappers are welcome. Things are very casual and largely Q&A. There is no charge to attend but you should probably buy a coffee and or a pastry from our nice hosts at the coffee shop. The next two OSM Meetups are: Waterloo, Tuesday 11 May 2010 http://www.meetup.com/Waterloo-OSM/ Toronto, Tuesday 18 May 2010 http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Toronto/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 02:51:11 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 22:51:11 -0400 Subject: Tenda W311U and Debian Message-ID: I purchased two Tenda W311U wireless-N USB sticks this past weekend. I bought the second because they were $15US and the first one "just worked" (well - I had to blacklist a kernel module) with Ubuntu Karmic on an older Dell laptop. Unfortunately I'm having a great deal less luck with Debian (squeeze, kernel 2.6.32 - in this case on an Atom netbook, but similar behaviour on an older Compaq Pavilion with Celeron 1133 and squeeze). When I plug it in, the stick is recognized: [ 33.784132] usb 1-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 3 [ 33.941924] usb 1-2: New USB device found, idVendor=148f, idProduct=3070 [ 33.949060] usb 1-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 [ 33.956238] usb 1-2: Product: 802.11 n WLAN [ 33.963380] usb 1-2: Manufacturer: Ralink [ 33.970477] usb 1-2: SerialNumber: 1.0 [ 33.979437] usb 1-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice [ 34.062544] rt2870sta: module is from the staging directory, the quality is unknown, you have been warned. [ 34.088727] rtusb init ---> [ 34.092826] [ 34.092829] [ 34.092831] === pAd = f8c37000, size = 566752 === [ 34.092834] [ 34.106437] <-- RTMPAllocAdapterBlock, Status=0 [ 34.112838] usbcore: registered new interface driver rt2870 And the kernel modules are loaded (rt2870sta and a dependency). I've blacklisted rt2800usb as that was required under Ubuntu - it would load that as well as rt2870sta and the stick wouldn't work. I've also installed the package "firmware-ralink" which includes /lib/firmware/rt2870.bin . I'm getting the same behaviour on the Celeron laptop, although I haven't tested with firmware on that one. Any thoughts? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 13:04:56 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 09:04:56 -0400 Subject: Tenda W311U and Debian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100506130456.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 10:51:11PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > I purchased two Tenda W311U wireless-N USB sticks this past weekend. > I bought the second because they were $15US and the first one "just > worked" (well - I had to blacklist a kernel module) with Ubuntu Karmic > on an older Dell laptop. Unfortunately I'm having a great deal less > luck with Debian (squeeze, kernel 2.6.32 - in this case on an Atom > netbook, but similar behaviour on an older Compaq Pavilion with > Celeron 1133 and squeeze). > > When I plug it in, the stick is recognized: > > [ 33.784132] usb 1-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 3 > [ 33.941924] usb 1-2: New USB device found, idVendor=148f, idProduct=3070 > [ 33.949060] usb 1-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 > [ 33.956238] usb 1-2: Product: 802.11 n WLAN > [ 33.963380] usb 1-2: Manufacturer: Ralink > [ 33.970477] usb 1-2: SerialNumber: 1.0 > [ 33.979437] usb 1-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice > [ 34.062544] rt2870sta: module is from the staging directory, the > quality is unknown, you have been warned. > [ 34.088727] rtusb init ---> > [ 34.092826] > [ 34.092829] > [ 34.092831] === pAd = f8c37000, size = 566752 === > [ 34.092834] > [ 34.106437] <-- RTMPAllocAdapterBlock, Status=0 > [ 34.112838] usbcore: registered new interface driver rt2870 > > And the kernel modules are loaded (rt2870sta and a dependency). I've > blacklisted rt2800usb as that was required under Ubuntu - it would > load that as well as rt2870sta and the stick wouldn't work. I've also > installed the package "firmware-ralink" which includes > /lib/firmware/rt2870.bin . I'm getting the same behaviour on the > Celeron laptop, although I haven't tested with firmware on that one. > > Any thoughts? Is the hardware revision the same on both? Do both sticks work with ubuntu and both fail with debian? In fact is it not working? Nothing in what you wrote shows anything wrong. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 13:40:13 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 09:40:13 -0400 Subject: Ryzom coming to Linux and FreeBSD? Message-ID: Got a note from the Free Software Foundation that a massively multi-player game Ryzom is being released as free software .. sort of. Ryzom is a game where you explore an alien landscape, doing various quests (ie: retrieve the treasure at ...). All the software required to run a Ryzom server and clients is being released. 13 GB of artwork is being released under a creative commons license. What isn't being released is the music and sound effects (the company behind Ryzom doesn't have the rights to release those). What also isn't being released is terrain description files, "special" object files and quest definition files. In other words what we are looking at is a tool kit for building games like Ryzom, with a few critical, but replaceable, pieces missing... Details to be seen here: http://dev.ryzom.com/news/13 and at http://www.fsf.org/news/free-ryzom-1 My questions are, how long before the Ryzom client is ported to Linux and/or FreeBSD? Also, how long before you can do a usable totally free Ryzom server? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 14:16:20 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 10:16:20 -0400 Subject: Tenda W311U and Debian In-Reply-To: <20100506130456.GM17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100506130456.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 6 May 2010 09:04, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 10:51:11PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >> I purchased two Tenda W311U wireless-N USB sticks this past weekend. >> I bought the second because they were $15US and the first one "just >> worked" (well - I had to blacklist a kernel module) with Ubuntu Karmic >> on an older Dell laptop. ?Unfortunately I'm having a great deal less >> luck with Debian (squeeze, kernel 2.6.32 - in this case on an Atom >> netbook, but similar behaviour on an older Compaq Pavilion with >> Celeron 1133 and squeeze). >> >> When I plug it in, the stick is recognized: >> >> [ ? 33.784132] usb 1-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 3 >> [ ? 33.941924] usb 1-2: New USB device found, idVendor=148f, idProduct=3070 >> [ ? 33.949060] usb 1-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 >> [ ? 33.956238] usb 1-2: Product: 802.11 n WLAN >> [ ? 33.963380] usb 1-2: Manufacturer: Ralink >> [ ? 33.970477] usb 1-2: SerialNumber: 1.0 >> [ ? 33.979437] usb 1-2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice >> [ ? 34.062544] rt2870sta: module is from the staging directory, the >> quality is unknown, you have been warned. >> [ ? 34.088727] rtusb init ---> >> [ ? 34.092826] >> [ ? 34.092829] >> [ ? 34.092831] === pAd = f8c37000, size = 566752 === >> [ ? 34.092834] >> [ ? 34.106437] <-- RTMPAllocAdapterBlock, Status=0 >> [ ? 34.112838] usbcore: registered new interface driver rt2870 >> >> And the kernel modules are loaded (rt2870sta and a dependency). ?I've >> blacklisted rt2800usb as that was required under Ubuntu - it would >> load that as well as rt2870sta and the stick wouldn't work. ?I've also >> installed the package "firmware-ralink" which includes >> /lib/firmware/rt2870.bin . ?I'm getting the same behaviour on the >> Celeron laptop, although I haven't tested with firmware on that one. >> >> Any thoughts? > > Is the hardware revision the same on both? > > Do both sticks work with ubuntu and both fail with debian? > > In fact is it not working? ?Nothing in what you wrote shows anything > wrong. Sorry, I didn't say: what's wrong is that I have no network interface despite the appearance that everything is working correctly. I've tried "ifconfig ra0 up" as root (that's the interface name that showed on the Ubuntu laptop) just in case that would help, but it didn't. You're also correct that I should check both sticks with the Ubuntu laptop to verify that they both work and see if I can determine if they're functionally the same. I'll try to do that tonight. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 14:39:24 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 10:39:24 -0400 Subject: Ryzom coming to Linux and FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100506143924.GN17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 09:40:13AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Got a note from the Free Software Foundation that a massively > multi-player game Ryzom is being released as free software .. sort of. > Ryzom is a game where you explore an alien landscape, doing various > quests (ie: retrieve the treasure at ...). All the software required > to run a Ryzom server and clients is being released. 13 GB of artwork > is being released under a creative commons license. What isn't being > released is the music and sound effects (the company behind Ryzom > doesn't have the rights to release those). What also isn't being > released is terrain description files, "special" object files and > quest definition files. > > In other words what we are looking at is a tool kit for building games > like Ryzom, with a few critical, but replaceable, pieces missing... > Details to be seen here: > > http://dev.ryzom.com/news/13 and at > http://www.fsf.org/news/free-ryzom-1 > > My questions are, how long before the Ryzom client is ported to Linux > and/or FreeBSD? Also, how long before you can do a usable totally free > Ryzom server? Well it says in the source that the NeL framework is developed and tested on windows and linux. It has OpenGL and OpenAL support in addition to DirectX. So it may be pretty close already. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 14:41:26 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 10:41:26 -0400 Subject: Tenda W311U and Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20100506130456.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100506144126.GO17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 10:16:20AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > Sorry, I didn't say: what's wrong is that I have no network interface > despite the appearance that everything is working correctly. I've > tried "ifconfig ra0 up" as root (that's the interface name that showed > on the Ubuntu laptop) just in case that would help, but it didn't. > > You're also correct that I should check both sticks with the Ubuntu > laptop to verify that they both work and see if I can determine if > they're functionally the same. I'll try to do that tonight. ifconfig -a. Does it call it eth or wlan or something? Recent kernels have changed a lot of the wireless cards to use more standard names. I tend to use network manager for wifi these days, in which case nm-tool is pretty handy for viewing state of things. It's a bit hard to configure without the gnome gui tool unfortunately. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 15:10:57 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 11:10:57 -0400 Subject: Tenda W311U and Debian In-Reply-To: <20100506144126.GO17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100506130456.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100506144126.GO17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 6 May 2010 10:41, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 10:16:20AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >> Sorry, I didn't say: what's wrong is that I have no network interface >> despite the appearance that everything is working correctly. ?I've >> tried "ifconfig ra0 up" as root (that's the interface name that showed >> on the Ubuntu laptop) just in case that would help, but it didn't. >> >> You're also correct that I should check both sticks with the Ubuntu >> laptop to verify that they both work and see if I can determine if >> they're functionally the same. ?I'll try to do that tonight. > > ifconfig -a. ?Does it call it eth or wlan or something? ?Recent kernels > have changed a lot of the wireless cards to use more standard names. > > I tend to use network manager for wifi these days, in which case nm-tool > is pretty handy for viewing state of things. ?It's a bit hard to configure > without the gnome gui tool unfortunately. And ... problem solved! "ifconfig -a" showed that the interface was there but called "wlan1" because the netbook already has an onboard wireless card. All I had to do was "ifconfig wlan1 up" and we're away. After 15 years of using Linux, it's the staggering array of command line switches I _don't_ know that really kill me. This one I hope to remember. Thanks again Lennart. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 19:45:01 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 15:45:01 -0400 Subject: Tenda W311U and Debian In-Reply-To: References: <20100506130456.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100506144126.GO17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100506194501.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 11:10:57AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > And ... problem solved! > > "ifconfig -a" showed that the interface was there but called "wlan1" > because the netbook already has an onboard wireless card. All I had > to do was "ifconfig wlan1 up" and we're away. > > After 15 years of using Linux, it's the staggering array of command > line switches I _don't_ know that really kill me. This one I hope to > remember. Thanks again Lennart. Of course since ifconfig is deprecated (good riddance), 'ip link' would be a better command to remember. Other options you could have used include: cat /proc/net/dev ls /sys/class/net/ ls /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/ etc... -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 19:55:08 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 15:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ryzom coming to Linux and FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8d252538420aab5b137ab01a02070fe9.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> I tried Ryzom a while back and it was ok but the one thing I didn't like was that if you have, for example, 5 people in your party you would need to kill the boss 5 times. Waiting for respawns got boring fast. This is what drove me away. > Got a note from the Free Software Foundation that a massively > multi-player game Ryzom is being released as free software .. sort of. > Ryzom is a game where you explore an alien landscape, doing various > quests (ie: retrieve the treasure at ...). All the software required > to run a Ryzom server and clients is being released. 13 GB of artwork > is being released under a creative commons license. What isn't being > released is the music and sound effects (the company behind Ryzom > doesn't have the rights to release those). What also isn't being > released is terrain description files, "special" object files and > quest definition files. > > In other words what we are looking at is a tool kit for building games > like Ryzom, with a few critical, but replaceable, pieces missing... > Details to be seen here: > > http://dev.ryzom.com/news/13 and at > http://www.fsf.org/news/free-ryzom-1 > > My questions are, how long before the Ryzom client is ported to Linux > and/or FreeBSD? Also, how long before you can do a usable totally free > Ryzom server? > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 20:33:07 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 16:33:07 -0400 Subject: Ryzom coming to Linux and FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <8d252538420aab5b137ab01a02070fe9.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <8d252538420aab5b137ab01a02070fe9.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Jason Carson wrote: > I tried Ryzom a while back and it was ok but the one thing I didn't like > was that if you have, for example, 5 people in your party you would need > to kill the boss 5 times. Waiting for respawns got boring fast. This is > what drove me away. Okay, so how would you fix this is, now that the option of fixing this is available :-) ? Make the boss nasties adjust their strength based on how many players are attacking them, or... ? Bottom line, fixing issues that bother YOU is now an option, as opposed to when Ryzom was all proprietary software... Over the next little bit I expect there will be people working on adding the parts needed to turn Ryzom into a usable free game, creating music, sound effects, terrain definition files, quests and the "special" objects. This would be the perfect time to slip in a rule change and get it widely adopted... Colin McGregor >> Got a note from the Free Software Foundation that a massively >> multi-player game Ryzom is being released as free software .. sort of. >> Ryzom is a game where you explore an alien landscape, doing various >> quests (ie: retrieve the treasure at ...). All the software required >> to run a Ryzom server and clients is being released. 13 GB of artwork >> is being released under a creative commons license. What isn't being >> released is the music and sound effects (the company behind Ryzom >> doesn't have the rights to release those). What also isn't being >> released is terrain description files, "special" object files and >> quest definition files. >> >> In other words what we are looking at is a tool kit for building games >> like Ryzom, with a few critical, but replaceable, pieces missing... >> Details to be seen here: >> >> http://dev.ryzom.com/news/13 and at >> http://www.fsf.org/news/free-ryzom-1 >> >> My questions are, how long before the Ryzom client is ported to Linux >> and/or FreeBSD? Also, how long before you can do a usable totally free >> Ryzom server? >> >> >> Colin McGregor >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 20:33:57 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 16:33:57 -0400 Subject: Ryzom coming to Linux and FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <8d252538420aab5b137ab01a02070fe9.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <8d252538420aab5b137ab01a02070fe9.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <20100506203357.GQ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 03:55:08PM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: > I tried Ryzom a while back and it was ok but the one thing I didn't like > was that if you have, for example, 5 people in your party you would need > to kill the boss 5 times. Waiting for respawns got boring fast. This is > what drove me away. That doesn't make sense. Five killing a thing is much easier than one killing a thing. Doing something easier 5 times does not make it as hard as one killing that thing. They could have made the fight 5 times harder instead and that would have made some sense for balancing concerns. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 20:34:56 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 16:34:56 -0400 Subject: Ryzom coming to Linux and FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: References: <8d252538420aab5b137ab01a02070fe9.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <20100506203456.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 04:33:07PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Okay, so how would you fix this is, now that the option of fixing this > is available :-) ? Make the boss nasties adjust their strength based > on how many players are attacking them, or... ? > > Bottom line, fixing issues that bother YOU is now an option, as > opposed to when Ryzom was all proprietary software... Over the next > little bit I expect there will be people working on adding the parts > needed to turn Ryzom into a usable free game, creating music, sound > effects, terrain definition files, quests and the "special" objects. > This would be the perfect time to slip in a rule change and get it > widely adopted... No the client and server code is now available. The scripts and data files for their particular game implementation is not. So no you can't fix that. You can make your own game and do it differently though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 21:09:09 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 17:09:09 -0400 Subject: Ryzom coming to Linux and FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <20100506203456.GR17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <8d252538420aab5b137ab01a02070fe9.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20100506203456.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 04:33:07PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Okay, so how would you fix this is, now that the option of fixing this >> is available :-) ? Make the boss nasties adjust their strength based >> on how many players are attacking them, or... ? >> >> Bottom line, fixing issues that bother YOU is now an option, as >> opposed to when Ryzom was all proprietary software... Over the next >> little bit I expect there will be people working on adding the parts >> needed to turn Ryzom into a usable free game, creating music, sound >> effects, terrain definition files, quests and the "special" objects. >> This would be the perfect time to slip in a rule change and get it >> widely adopted... > > No the client and server code is now available. ?The scripts and data > files for their particular game implementation is not. ?So no you can't > fix that. > > You can make your own game and do it differently though. To clarify. There still is a commercial, subscription based Ryzom server system running. If you want to play a usable version of Ryzom RIGHT NOW you will need a copy of MS-Windows, a copy of the client software and a subscription to the commercial Ryzom server. What happened today was the release of the source code for the Ryzom client and Ryzom server. Also released was the artwork used in the game. Some of the other key support files were not released. I expect that even now there is a busy bunch of people getting together to create replacements for those missing files, and not that long down the road a few commands in your favorite Linux / FreeBSD / etc. package / ports management system will get a copy of the Ryzom client and/or server software installed, along with all newly created free versions of the key support files. Okay, so unless you are an employee of "Winch Gate Property" (the firm that developed Ryzom and runs the commercial server) you can not change what is running on the commercial server, this was true 1 year ago, and will almost certainly be true 1 year from now. But now is the time to slip in changes to things the bother you regarding the free version of the game... Colin McGregor > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 15:46:23 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 11:46:23 -0400 Subject: indy game pack - pay what you can results Message-ID: Every time I see one of these, they end the same way. Linux users value software more than windows users. http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Linux-users-contribute-twice-as-much-as-Windows-users -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 15:56:12 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 11:56:12 -0400 Subject: indy game pack - pay what you can results In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100507155612.GS17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 11:46:23AM -0400, Richard Weait wrote: > Every time I see one of these, they end the same way. > > Linux users value software more than windows users. > http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Linux-users-contribute-twice-as-much-as-Windows-users I was just noticing the same thing a minute ago. So like why are we not seeing more games developed for linux again? :) Apparently given the choice, windows users don't want to spend money. Linux users will if given quality products (no DRM and such). I am trying to decide what to do. I already bought world of goo when they did something similar last year. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 19:40:30 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 15:40:30 -0400 Subject: Apache configuration riddle Message-ID: Hi I am just in the process of setting up a low traffic web server to be used internally, and in the course of doing it, decided to tighten the default configuration - basic security stuff. Its on doing so that got to think a little bit about sever pool size regulations and I got the impression the default configuration does not make sense. Basically, my problem is both prefork and worker MPM are enabled. When I googled on the topic, these two features seems exclusive. Prefork would be more ideal for system with single or dual CPU. Its apparently is also recommended when you are running software which is not thread safe. On the other side, workers would be used on system with let say more than 8 CPUs The odd thing though, prefork is statically compiled. This is the default rpm shipped with Centos 5. Why do they then offer a configuration file that imply you can enable worker MPM? How does apache handle a configuration file that has both MPM enabled? I am missing something obvious? httpd -l Compiled in modules: core.c prefork.c http_core.c mod_so.c # prefork MPM # StartServers: number of server processes to start # MinSpareServers: minimum number of server processes which are kept spare # MaxSpareServers: maximum number of server processes which are kept spare # ServerLimit: maximum value for MaxClients for the lifetime of the server # MaxClients: maximum number of server processes allowed to start # MaxRequestsPerChild: maximum number of requests a server process serves StartServers 8 MinSpareServers 5 MaxSpareServers 20 ServerLimit 256 MaxClients 256 MaxRequestsPerChild 4000 # worker MPM # StartServers: initial number of server processes to start # MaxClients: maximum number of simultaneous client connections # MinSpareThreads: minimum number of worker threads which are kept spare # MaxSpareThreads: maximum number of worker threads which are kept spare # ThreadsPerChild: constant number of worker threads in each server process # MaxRequestsPerChild: maximum number of requests a server process serves StartServers 2 MaxClients 150 MinSpareThreads 25 MaxSpareThreads 75 ThreadsPerChild 25 MaxRequestsPerChild 0 William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 21:22:08 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 17:22:08 -0400 Subject: Apache configuration riddle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 3:40 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hi > > I am just in the process of setting up a low traffic web server to be > used internally, and in the course of doing it, decided to tighten the > default configuration - basic security stuff. Its on doing so that got > to think a little bit about sever pool size regulations and I got the > impression the default configuration does not make sense. > > Basically, my problem is both prefork and worker MPM are enabled. When > I googled on the topic, these two features seems exclusive. ?Prefork > would be more ideal for system with single or dual CPU. Its apparently > is also recommended when you are running software which is not thread > safe. On the other side, workers would be used on system with let say > more than 8 CPUs > > The odd thing though, prefork is statically compiled. This is the > default rpm shipped with Centos 5. Why do they then offer a > configuration file that imply you can ?enable worker MPM? ?How does > apache handle a configuration file that has both MPM enabled? I am > missing something obvious? > > httpd -l > Compiled in modules: > ?core.c > ?prefork.c > ?http_core.c > ?mod_so.c > > > > # prefork MPM > # StartServers: number of server processes to start > # MinSpareServers: minimum number of server processes which are kept spare > # MaxSpareServers: maximum number of server processes which are kept spare > # ServerLimit: maximum value for MaxClients for the lifetime of the server > # MaxClients: maximum number of server processes allowed to start > # MaxRequestsPerChild: maximum number of requests a server process serves > > StartServers ? ? ? 8 > MinSpareServers ? ?5 > MaxSpareServers ? 20 > ServerLimit ? ? ?256 > MaxClients ? ? ? 256 > MaxRequestsPerChild ?4000 > > > # worker MPM > # StartServers: initial number of server processes to start > # MaxClients: maximum number of simultaneous client connections > # MinSpareThreads: minimum number of worker threads which are kept spare > # MaxSpareThreads: maximum number of worker threads which are kept spare > # ThreadsPerChild: constant number of worker threads in each server process > # MaxRequestsPerChild: maximum number of requests a server process serves > > StartServers ? ? ? ? 2 > MaxClients ? ? ? ? 150 > MinSpareThreads ? ? 25 > MaxSpareThreads ? ? 75 > ThreadsPerChild ? ? 25 > MaxRequestsPerChild ?0 > > > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Take a look at /etc/sysconfig/httpd this will indicate which MPM is being used. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 8 01:29:06 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 21:29:06 -0400 Subject: IPv6 access over IPv4 ISP Message-ID: <4BE4BE62.1010507@rogers.com> I've been experimenting with IPv6 recently. Since my ISP does not provide IPv6, I used a gateway, which I tunnel to via IPv4 UDP. Clients for this are available for Linux, Mac, BSD, Solaris etc., even Windows. The service and client are free after you sign up. The Windows client is an executable and requires .NET. The rest have to be compiled for the appropriate platform. I have tried it on both OpenSUSE 11.0 (32 & 64 bit) and XP. It appears to work fine with both. You can use ipv6.google.com to test the client, as that site is not available via IPv4. The gogonet site is accessible via both IPv4 & IPv6. You can sign up and get the client here: http://gogonet.gogo6.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat May 8 03:55:42 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 23:55:42 -0400 Subject: [SOLVED]: Belkin N150 router wireless light won't come on In-Reply-To: <20100502210353.GA8034-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100502210353.GA8034@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100508035542.GA18120@waltdnes.org> On Sun, May 02, 2010 at 05:03:53PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote > I'm trying to connect to a Belkin N150 wireless router with a netbook > running Gentoo. I know that that the netbook's wireless works, because > I've surfed the web at a Toronto Public Library free wifi hotspot. I was getting ready to make a post about my setup for dealing with UBB, and how I intended to offload email and system updates to dialup, while still using ADSL for the heavy-duty realtime stuff. Originally, dialup could not co-exist with eth0. I had to bring down eth0 before dialing out and establishing ppp0. Then I had a Homer Simpson "dohhhhhhhhhh" moment. I was trying to connect via wlan0 to the wireless router, while eth0 was still running. What if I brought down eth0 first? Guess what, instant success on the wireless connection. Some time ago, I had gotten annoyed at losing the connection to the LAN while doing dialup. I eventually figured out that by... * setting the default route to metric 2 * and setting the route to my LAN to metric 0 ...I can run dialup and eth0 to the LAN simultaneously, and not have to tear down eth0. Here's my /etc/conf.d/net (Gentoo-specific). config_eth0="192.168.123.251 broadcast 192.168.123.255 netmask 255.255.255.240 mtu 1452" routes_eth0=( "default via 192.168.123.254 metric 2" "192.168.123.248/29 via 192.168.123.254 metric 0" ) I assume something similar would allow eth0 and wlan0 to co-exist on my netbook. I'll try that later. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 8 13:54:55 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 09:54:55 -0400 Subject: Apache configuration riddle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> > > Take a look at /etc/sysconfig/httpd this will indicate which MPM is being used. Ah, got you. That also implicitly imply the main httpd.conf file is never considered by apache as far as MPM is concerned, correct? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 8 16:25:08 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 12:25:08 -0400 Subject: Retrieving data from an unmounted mysql database Message-ID: <20100508162508.GA2606@yam.witteman.ca> A while ago I have a server that died. I have the hard drive, but I do not have all of the data off of the mysql database that was running on the machine. Can anyone tell me how I can get a database dump of a mysql database that is not running? Does that make sense? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 8 19:44:54 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 15:44:54 -0400 Subject: Retrieving data from an unmounted mysql database In-Reply-To: <20100508162508.GA2606-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100508162508.GA2606@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 12:25 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > A while ago I have a server that died. ?I have the hard drive, but I do > not have all of the data off of the mysql database that was running on > the machine. > > Can anyone tell me how I can get a database dump of a mysql database > that is not running? ?Does that make sense? ?Thanks. > -- > I am pretty sure you will need a running MySQL to perform a dump of the old database(s). Each MySQL database has it's own directory so you would need to copy those to a working install of MySQL Server then set the server up to access those databases. I would use a test system. You said your server died right. I assume that was a hardware failure? If the Linux install on the Drive is still good, you could just throw the drive in another system and boot it up to run MySQL Server and do your dump. To be safe, you don't even need to put the machine on a network. Just dump the sql to that drive, another hard disk or a flash drive (if that Linux install supports flash drives). -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sat May 8 19:46:55 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 19:46:55 +0000 Subject: Retrieving data from an unmounted mysql database In-Reply-To: <20100508162508.GA2606-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100508162508.GA2606@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <1028420002-1273348016-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-785533584-@bda111.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Couldn't you just copy /var/lib/mysql to another machine? Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -----Original Message----- From: William O'Higgins Witteman Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 12:25:08 To: tlug Subject: [TLUG]: Retrieving data from an unmounted mysql database A while ago I have a server that died. I have the hard drive, but I do not have all of the data off of the mysql database that was running on the machine. Can anyone tell me how I can get a database dump of a mysql database that is not running? Does that make sense? Thanks. -- yours, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 8 19:56:27 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 15:56:27 -0400 Subject: Retrieving data from an unmounted mysql database In-Reply-To: <1028420002-1273348016-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-785533584--yA6BAJA9D23jL2gL5RxOEzYg3SYOavFBmZ6FRVpaDsI@public.gmane.org> References: <20100508162508.GA2606@yam.witteman.ca> <1028420002-1273348016-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-785533584-@bda111.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 3:46 PM, wrote: > Couldn't you just copy /var/lib/mysql to another machine? > > Yeah, I have probably done that before. Just remember any common files will be overwritten. -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 13:43:34 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 09:43:34 -0400 Subject: IPv6 access over IPv4 ISP In-Reply-To: <4BE4BE46.6090202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE4BE46.6090202@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BE6BC06.1040403@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > I've been experimenting with IPv6 recently. Since my ISP does not > provide IPv6, I used a gateway, which I tunnel to via IPv4 UDP. > Clients for this are available for Linux, Mac, BSD, Solaris etc., even > Windows. The service and client are free after you sign up. The > Windows client is an executable and requires .NET. The rest have to > be compiled for the appropriate platform. I have tried it on both > OpenSUSE 11.0 (32 & 64 bit) and XP. It appears to work fine with > both. You can use ipv6.google.com to test the client, as that site is > not available via IPv4. The gogonet site is accessible via both IPv4 > & IPv6. > > You can sign up and get the client here: http://gogonet.gogo6.com/ > RPMs for the Linux client can be found here: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/ars3niy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 02:50:06 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 22:50:06 -0400 Subject: Retrieving data from an unmounted mysql database In-Reply-To: <1028420002-1273348016-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-785533584--yA6BAJA9D23jL2gL5RxOEzYg3SYOavFBmZ6FRVpaDsI@public.gmane.org> References: <20100508162508.GA2606@yam.witteman.ca> <1028420002-1273348016-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-785533584-@bda111.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <20100510025006.GA3455@yam.witteman.ca> On Sat, May 08, 2010 at 07:46:55PM +0000, ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org wrote: >Couldn't you just copy /var/lib/mysql to another machine? No, at least not in this case - when mysql tried to start it made an effort and then barfed. The solution was that I still had a bootable hard drive from the dead server (it was MB failure that killed it), and I was able to boot it on another machine and do a dump, then pull the dump off to a USB stick and put everything back together again. Thanks for the help! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 12:43:53 2010 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 12:43:53 +0000 Subject: Toner Cartridges For Free - Old HP Message-ID: I have two toner cartridges that I don't need, one full and one empty. They are good for the HP LaserJet II, IID, III & IIID. If anyone still owns one of these classic printers and are interested in the cartridges, please let me know. John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 13:27:26 2010 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 09:27:26 -0400 Subject: LPI course materials Message-ID: <4BE809BE.3010609@totaltravelmarketing.com> Hi List, Just wondering if there is an updated book for LPI training, I got the LPI, I've got the "LPIC I Exam Cram 2: Linux Professional Institute Certification Exams 101 and 102", but seems outdated by today's standarts (I think I got this one like 4 years ago or so), could you recommend any newer book? Thanks in advance for your time and comments Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 14:36:46 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 10:36:46 -0400 Subject: Wireless from the Debian command line Message-ID: Following on to my post about a new USB wireless-N adapter ... I've previously connected to the WPA-enabled wireless router in my house with a script like this: ifconfig wlan0 up wpa_supplicant -i wlan0 -c /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -D wext & iwconfig wlan0 essid mock dhclient3 wlan0 /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf looks like this: ctrl_interface=/var/run/wpa_supplicant ctrl_interface_group=0 eapol_version=1 ap_scan=1 fast_reauth=1 network={ scan_ssid=1 psk="xxx xxxx" ssid="mock" priority=9 } Until recently, this has worked fine. I believe some default configuration has changed recently in Debian squeeze, because now - across three laptops (two squeeze, one Ubuntu 10.04) with a variety of hardware (not just the wireless-N stick), I get continuous errors similar to this: Trying to associate with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN (SSID='mock' freq=2442 MHz) Associated with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN Authentication with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN timed out. CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys Trying to associate with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN (SSID='mock' freq=2442 MHz) Associated with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN Authentication with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN timed out. CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys (I admit that the above box has yet to achieve working wireless ... but the other two have and are now problematic.) The Ubuntu Lucid Lynx box works beautifully with wireless-g/GNOME/NetworkManager , but when I try this script and configuration under Ubuntu, I get Trying to associate with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN (SSID='mock' freq=2442 MHz) Association request to the driver failed Associated with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys It's different, but similar. And perhaps the solution isn't the same, but the similarity is quite interesting. I've googled like mad, but haven't found a good guide to command line wireless (well, several that recreate the script and config I already have that's failing). And believe me, a couple of the machines I'm using are NOT going to run well (or possibly at all) with GNOME, so that solution is out. "wicd" doesn't seem to be a solution either (it fails to connect). Unencrypted wireless seems to be fine, I believe this is entirely wpa_supplicant-related. As always, assistance is much appreciated. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 15:16:59 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 11:16:59 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall Message-ID: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> In June I start work on a ten month project for a company that makes network equipment for ISPs. I expect that they have a very tight firewall and web proxy. I want to be able to get out from it, of course. Nothing more than email and accessing photography web sites that are banned on most proxies. I have read about httptunnel. Is this the way to go? I will have an XP machine as client, and have a Linux server with a public IP at home. All thoughts welcome! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 15:23:43 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 11:23:43 -0400 Subject: Wireless from the Debian command line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > As always, assistance is much appreciated. Alas, no suggestions; I'm certainly watching with interest. I haven't been too satisfied by the GUI-based wifi management tools; they leave too much as "magick" that they don't encourage one to understand, even in shallow fashion. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 15:26:16 2010 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 11:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall Message-ID: <201005101526.o4AFQGjA020028@gc0.generalconcepts.com> | In June I start work on a ten month project for a company that makes | network equipment for ISPs. | | I expect that they have a very tight firewall and web proxy. | | I want to be able to get out from it, of course. Instead of publically planning to circumvent company policy before you even start, perhaps you might be better off if you ask your new employer about network policies. Be a shame to get in trouble before you even start work ... John P.S. cough, ssh, cough -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 15:29:30 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 08:29:30 -0700 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> Message-ID: Try talking nicely to the IT department? Perhaps you could get an exemption from the proxy. We have some cases where we do that here, either with a higher-level authoration account or a firewall rule. Circumventing without authorization for personal stuff may be a good way to reduce your term to 1 month if you get caught. If it's really necessary to get out and not going to get hou in trouble, then I usually connect to an outside box running openvpn on a permitted port, or just use my smartphone (one of those city-wifi/cellular sticks would also work well). On 2010-05-10 8:18 AM, "Stephen" wrote: In June I start work on a ten month project for a company that makes network equipment for ISPs. I expect that they have a very tight firewall and web proxy. I want to be able to get out from it, of course. Nothing more than email and accessing photography web sites that are banned on most proxies. I have read about httptunnel. Is this the way to go? I will have an XP machine as client, and have a Linux server with a public IP at home. All thoughts welcome! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 15:39:56 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 08:39:56 -0700 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <201005101526.o4AFQGjA020028-KXptd8nw1xHC8fiuoqhjLId3RwegZlz3@public.gmane.org> References: <201005101526.o4AFQGjA020028@gc0.generalconcepts.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 8:26 AM, John Sellens wrote: > | In June I start work on a ten month project for a company that makes > | network equipment for ISPs. > | > | I expect that they have a very tight firewall and web proxy. > | > | I want to be able to get out from it, of course. > > Instead of publically planning to circumvent company policy before > you even start, perhaps you might be better off if you ask your new > employer about network policies. > > Be a shame to get in trouble before you even start work ... > > John > > P.S. cough, ssh, cough > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Not only that, but now there's a nice post on the internet that will be archived for years into the future describing your intent to circumvent company security. It might seem like a light thing now, but for a potential employer looking you up online, it's possibly going to look like you're a loose cannon or security liability, especially since you haven't tried normal channels or confirmed that your upcoming employer does indeed have a draconian security policy. Most places I know aren't *that* bad. They filter known bad sites, log some others, and restrict SSL on non-authorized domains (but email providers often get a pass). As one of the "IT enforcers," I'd have to say that a smile and friendly request go a long way. We've had bad luck with people randomly flaunting the rules, but tend to play a lot nicer when we know what's going on. If something goes weird, your machine will be on the radar to be checked for odd traffic, etc. But if you go it on your own, and they then find you have a virus + have circumvented security.... bad news. Heck, we've even gone out of the way to create special firewall rules and exemptions for things like people who listen to "CBC radio 2" (for which the flash applet completely ignores proxy settings and tries to direct-connect). -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 15:42:33 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 11:42:33 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <201005101526.o4AFQGjA020028-KXptd8nw1xHC8fiuoqhjLId3RwegZlz3@public.gmane.org> References: <201005101526.o4AFQGjA020028@gc0.generalconcepts.com> Message-ID: <4BE82969.5080409@rogers.com> On 10-05-10 11:26 AM, John Sellens wrote: > | In June I start work on a ten month project for a company that makes > | network equipment for ISPs. > | > | I expect that they have a very tight firewall and web proxy. > | > | I want to be able to get out from it, of course. > > Instead of publically planning to circumvent company policy before > you even start, perhaps you might be better off if you ask your new > employer about network policies. > > Be a shame to get in trouble before you even start work ... > > John > > P.S. cough, ssh, cough > 1) I have no idea what, if any, policies they may have. 2) In my experience, IT departments have all the flexibility of a block of granite. 3) I will be working as an independent contractor, and do not expect to be signing a network access agreement 4) I am pretty sure port 22 would be monitored. I am thinking port 443. 5) It is easier to ask forgiveness than obtain permission. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 15:44:02 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 11:44:02 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BE829C2.5020401@rogers.com> On 10-05-10 11:29 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > Try talking nicely to the IT department? Perhaps you could get an > exemption from the proxy. We have some cases where we do that here, > either with a higher-level authoration account or a firewall rule. > > Circumventing without authorization for personal stuff may be a good > way to reduce your term to 1 month if you get caught. > > If it's really necessary to get out and not going to get hou in > trouble, then I usually connect to an outside box running openvpn on a > permitted port, or just use my smartphone (one of those > city-wifi/cellular sticks would also work well). > > The cell stick is my back-up plan. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 15:49:11 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 08:49:11 -0700 Subject: LPI course materials In-Reply-To: <4BE809BE.3010609-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE809BE.3010609@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 6:27 AM, Jose wrote: > Hi List, > > Just wondering if there is an updated book for LPI training, I got the LPI, > I've got the "LPIC I Exam Cram 2: Linux Professional Institute Certification > Exams 101 and 102", but seems outdated by today's standarts (I think I got > this one like 4 years ago or so), could you recommend any ?newer book? > > Thanks in advance for your time and comments > > Jose > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > The "cram books" aren't bad if you already know the technical stuff about LPI and need to get the memorization parts in (seriously, memorizing flags is lame, what's what -? /? or --help are for), but the test has changed - I believe since your book came out - and it may not be so helpful anymore. The older test actually had quite a few inaccuracies in regards to modern 'nix, limitations that no longer applied or had changed were the "correct" answers in the test (fine for older versions of RHEL, but not so correct with newer versions or other distros). Assuming those have been fixed in the current exam, then the older cram book is probably going to give you the wrong answer. -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 15:53:12 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 11:53:12 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <4BE82969.5080409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <201005101526.o4AFQGjA020028@gc0.generalconcepts.com> <4BE82969.5080409@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Stephen wrote: > 5) It is easier to ask forgiveness than obtain permission. Sadly, in these days when "security considerations" have, as a consequence of hysteria surrounding a certain series of crashed aircraft, trumped common sense, it's not difficult for such things to snowball into Badness . -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 16:00:06 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 12:00:06 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <4BE8236B.1070007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BE82D86.3040807@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > In June I start work on a ten month project for a company that makes > network equipment for ISPs. > > I expect that they have a very tight firewall and web proxy. > > I want to be able to get out from it, of course. > > Nothing more than email and accessing photography web sites that are > banned on most proxies. > > I have read about httptunnel. Is this the way to go? > > I will have an XP machine as client, and have a Linux server with a > public IP at home. > > All thoughts welcome! > Can you get out with ssh? If so, you can use that to access your linux box. Then you can use Xming to run x apps, including a browser or email app, over ssh. Failing that, find a nearby Boingo hotspot (Starbucks, Second Cup etc.) and get up to one hour free access per day, as a Rogers internet customer. With many email apps, you can work off line and sync when an internet connection is available. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 15:59:51 2010 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 11:59:51 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <4BE8236B.1070007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BE82D77.70902@tmis.ca> Network admins need access. By bypassing the ISP firewall in order to fix stuff. If they dont have that firewall bypass feature, tell them it is essential. If they have the firewall bypass feature and you are not authorized, respect that decision. Circumventing network security is a good way to get terminated. http://linuxers.org/article/reverse-ssh-tunneling-bypassing-firewalls-and-nat Reminds me of the NET's GateKeeper firewall. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 16:00:59 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 09:00:59 -0700 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <4BE82969.5080409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <201005101526.o4AFQGjA020028@gc0.generalconcepts.com> <4BE82969.5080409@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Stephen wrote: > On 10-05-10 11:26 AM, John Sellens wrote: >> >> | In June I start work on a ten month project for a company that makes >> | network equipment for ISPs. >> | >> | I expect that they have a very tight firewall and web proxy. >> | >> | I want to be able to get out from it, of course. >> >> Instead of publically planning to circumvent company policy before >> you even start, perhaps you might be better off if you ask your new >> employer about network policies. >> >> Be a shame to get in trouble before you even start work ... >> >> John >> >> P.S. cough, ssh, cough >> > > 1) I have no idea what, if any, policies they may have. > > 2) In my experience, IT departments have all the flexibility of a block of > granite. > > 3) I will be working as an independent contractor, and do not expect to be > signing a network access agreement > > 4) I am pretty sure port 22 would be monitored. I am thinking port 443. > > 5) It is easier to ask forgiveness than obtain permission. > > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > For #5 It's also pretty easy to: iptables -A FORWARD -p tcp -m mac --mac-source ${THATNEWGUY} -j DROP For #2, isn't posting that on a list of techs/sysadmins somewhat equivilent to walking into a biker bar and saying "Bikers are @ssh*les*?" :-) -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 16:03:37 2010 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 16:03:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Wireless from the Debian command line References: Message-ID: Giles Orr writes: > Until recently, this has worked fine. I believe some default > configuration has changed recently in Debian squeeze, because now - > across three laptops (two squeeze, one Ubuntu 10.04) with a variety of > hardware (not just the wireless-N stick), I get continuous errors > similar to this: I had similar problems in the past but it was misconfiguration on my part. Did you try to use -K -dd etc in the wpa_supplicant options? I am also interested in this problem and in its solutions. -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 16:16:12 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 12:16:12 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <4BE8236B.1070007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Stephen wrote: > In June I start work on a ten month project for a company that makes network > equipment for ISPs. > > I expect that they have a very tight firewall and web proxy. > > I want to be able to get out from it, of course. > > Nothing more than email and accessing photography web sites that are banned > on most proxies. > > I have read about httptunnel. Is this the way to go? > > I will have an XP machine as client, and have a Linux server with a public > IP at home. > > All thoughts welcome! Last fall I did some contract work at one of the major banks. The bank did NOT permit any non-bank owned hardware to connect to their network. There was no issue bringing in your own laptop to the office, other than security (it was strongly recommended that everyone lock their laptop to desk). So, there were some options, there was the likes of the Roger's Rocket Stick (hhtp://Rogers.com/RocketStick), or the Bell Turbo Stick (http://mobilebusiness.bell.ca/en/Common/Wireless-products/Mobile-Internet-devices_Category_56.aspx), which some of the MS-Windows using contractors used (not sure what the Linux support is for these devices). Being in the downtown core some of the people in the building could use One Zone (http://www.onezone.ca/), which meant almost any 802.11g device supported by your OS. Then at lunch time there were the nearby coffee shops with WiFi... Me, I was happy enough with the contract work that while I did take a Linux running laptop into the office, I basically just used it as reference book, as I was writing Linux documentation, and at times I wanted to double check command line options (even today, the man command with its reference pages can be your friend). I also used my laptop as an over sized MP3 player (headphones playing some soft music to drown out office noise and let me focus on writing...). Going without personal internet access for 9 hours/day is really not that big a deal. I didn't want to risk messing up a good contract job... Bottom line, if your job REQUIRES changes to the corporate firewall rules explain that to the employer and get the exception(s) you need to do the job at hand. If extra internet access is in the "it would be good if...", then play nice and DON'T try to do an end-run around their rules on their network ... unless you want this to be a SHORT contract ... Colin. > Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 16:22:17 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 12:22:17 -0400 Subject: Wireless from the Debian command line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100510162217.GT17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:36:46AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > Following on to my post about a new USB wireless-N adapter ... > > I've previously connected to the WPA-enabled wireless router in my > house with a script like this: > > ifconfig wlan0 up > wpa_supplicant -i wlan0 -c /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf -D wext & > iwconfig wlan0 essid mock > dhclient3 wlan0 > > /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf looks like this: > > ctrl_interface=/var/run/wpa_supplicant > ctrl_interface_group=0 > eapol_version=1 > ap_scan=1 > fast_reauth=1 > > network={ > scan_ssid=1 > psk="xxx xxxx" > ssid="mock" > priority=9 > } > > Until recently, this has worked fine. I believe some default > configuration has changed recently in Debian squeeze, because now - > across three laptops (two squeeze, one Ubuntu 10.04) with a variety of > hardware (not just the wireless-N stick), I get continuous errors > similar to this: > > Trying to associate with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN (SSID='mock' freq=2442 MHz) > Associated with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN > Authentication with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN timed out. > CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys > CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys > CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys > Trying to associate with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN (SSID='mock' freq=2442 MHz) > Associated with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN > Authentication with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN timed out. > CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys > CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys > CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys > > > (I admit that the above box has yet to achieve working wireless ... > but the other two have and are now problematic.) > > The Ubuntu Lucid Lynx box works beautifully with > wireless-g/GNOME/NetworkManager , but when I try this script and > configuration under Ubuntu, I get > > Trying to associate with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN (SSID='mock' freq=2442 MHz) > Association request to the driver failed > Associated with NN:NN:NN:NN:NN:NN > CTRL-EVENT-DISCONNECTED - Disconnect event - remove keys > > > It's different, but similar. And perhaps the solution isn't the same, > but the similarity is quite interesting. I've googled like mad, but > haven't found a good guide to command line wireless (well, several > that recreate the script and config I already have that's failing). > And believe me, a couple of the machines I'm using are NOT going to > run well (or possibly at all) with GNOME, so that solution is out. > "wicd" doesn't seem to be a solution either (it fails to connect). > > Unencrypted wireless seems to be fine, I believe this is entirely > wpa_supplicant-related. > > As always, assistance is much appreciated. Which wireless chip/driver and which kernel version? There were some serious wifi problems for many chips in early 2.6.32 kernels that were fixed in later 2.6.32 updates. The -11 package in debian finally fixed my intel 5100 wifi, which worked fine with 2.6.31 and older but not with 2.6.32 until the -11 update. It would connect, transfer packets for a few seconds and die. I could then force a disconnect/reconnect and get a few more seconds of traffic. Now it works great again. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 16:56:51 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 12:56:51 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <4BE8236B.1070007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> Message-ID: Download PortableApps[1] to a USB key. It would be easier to configure everything when it is on your terms. Take a look at using the Proxy Server thing built into Putty (I would suggest you installing this on the USB drive with PortaPutty), there is a good blog post about securing Firefox and Pidgin (at that time GAIM)[2]. The nice thing about having all this on a USB key is that if they for what ever reason take away your workstation you don't have to be worried about any files left behind and all your configuration is on the USB key. [1]: [2]: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Stephen wrote: > In June I start work on a ten month project for a company that makes network > equipment for ISPs. > > I expect that they have a very tight firewall and web proxy. > > I want to be able to get out from it, of course. > > Nothing more than email and accessing photography web sites that are banned > on most proxies. > > I have read about httptunnel. Is this the way to go? > > I will have an XP machine as client, and have a Linux server with a public > IP at home. > > All thoughts welcome! > > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 18:10:33 2010 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 14:10:33 -0400 Subject: LPI course materials In-Reply-To: References: <4BE809BE.3010609@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <4BE84C19.1040607@totaltravelmarketing.com> On 5/10/2010 11:49 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 6:27 AM, Jose wrote: >> Hi List, >> >> Just wondering if there is an updated book for LPI training, I got the LPI, >> I've got the "LPIC I Exam Cram 2: Linux Professional Institute Certification >> Exams 101 and 102", but seems outdated by today's standarts (I think I got >> this one like 4 years ago or so), could you recommend any newer book? >> >> Thanks in advance for your time and comments >> >> Jose >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > The "cram books" aren't bad if you already know the technical stuff > about LPI and need to get the memorization parts in (seriously, > memorizing flags is lame, what's what -? /? or --help are for), but > the test has changed - I believe since your book came out - and it may > not be so helpful anymore. > > The older test actually had quite a few inaccuracies in regards to > modern 'nix, limitations that no longer applied or had changed were > the "correct" answers in the test (fine for older versions of RHEL, > but not so correct with newer versions or other distros). Assuming > those have been fixed in the current exam, then the older cram book is > probably going to give you the wrong answer. > > Hi Tyler, Thanks for your comments, this confirms what I've been thinking about this book, but is there anything newer I could use? Thanks Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 18:42:03 2010 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 14:42:03 -0400 Subject: Home web server Message-ID: Hi all... Anybody hosting their own web server from home? As a learning exercise I am considering setting up a server with this configuration: Hardware: Asus EeePC 900HA (built-in UPS! :-) OS: Debian Squeeze Web Server: nginx serving up some static web pages created in ikiwiki Router: Linksys WRT54GL running Tomato 1.27 ISP: Teksavvy (whose Terms of Use allow running home servers) A few questions: 1/ Good registrar? I saw the earlier thread about registering *.ca domains... any reason to pay a bit more at domainsatcost.ca vs - for example - godaddy to register a *.com domain? 2/ For a home server... has experience proved it pays to put the server on a separate subnet vs basic forwarding of port 80? I found a good tutorial for creating another VLAN in Tomato: http://www.seiichiro0185.org/doku.php/blog:creating_a_seperate_guest_network_with_tomato Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 18:53:30 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 11:53:30 -0700 Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Hi all... Anybody hosting their own web server from home? > > As a learning exercise I am considering setting up a server with this > configuration: > > Hardware: Asus EeePC 900HA (built-in UPS! :-) > OS: Debian Squeeze > Web Server: nginx serving up some static web pages created in ikiwiki > Router: Linksys WRT54GL running Tomato 1.27 > ISP: Teksavvy (whose Terms of Use allow running home servers) > > A few questions: > > 1/ Good registrar? I saw the earlier thread about registering *.ca > domains... any reason to pay a bit more at domainsatcost.ca vs - for > example - godaddy to register a *.com domain? > Do you need a .com? Are you using a fixed IP with TS? If not, go to dyndns.org, and install the daemon to update the DNS via your IP. For my home box I just a "myname.homeip.net" domain, which works fine. My actual server-out-in-the-world has a .COM, but for a test box you don't really need it? > 2/ For a home server... has experience proved it pays to put the > server on a separate subnet vs basic forwarding of port 80? I found a > good tutorial for creating another VLAN in Tomato: > > http://www.seiichiro0185.org/doku.php/blog:creating_a_seperate_guest_network_with_tomato > > Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated. If you're not very experienced with running a server yet, it may be an idea to physically separate it from the rest of the network (VLAN it or put it on the outside of the router) so if something goes wrong it won't do "bad things" on your home network. Port forwarding can be annoying if you find you want to use an alternate port for something. Also, switch SSH to a port other than 22. You'll get less sniffing attacks. Add IP's you commonly want access from (home network, work IP) to /etc/hosts.allow, and then install the "denyhosts" package to auto-block those that are attempting to jack your box. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 18:54:57 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 14:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2010, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Hi all... Anybody hosting their own web server from home? Yes, though it looks like it didn't come back up after yesterday's power failure. > As a learning exercise I am considering setting up a server with this > configuration: > > Hardware: Asus EeePC 900HA (built-in UPS! :-) > OS: Debian Squeeze > Web Server: nginx serving up some static web pages created in ikiwiki > Router: Linksys WRT54GL running Tomato 1.27 > ISP: Teksavvy (whose Terms of Use allow running home servers) > > A few questions: > > 1/ Good registrar? I saw the earlier thread about registering *.ca > domains... any reason to pay a bit more at domainsatcost.ca vs - for > example - godaddy to register a *.com domain? I'm using easydns.com as my registrar. They seem decent. YMMV. > 2/ For a home server... has experience proved it pays to put the > server on a separate subnet vs basic forwarding of port 80? I found a > good tutorial for creating another VLAN in Tomato: > > http://www.seiichiro0185.org/doku.php/blog:creating_a_seperate_guest_network_with_tomato Always put your webserver on a separate subnet and configure your router so that the web server is a DMZ. This way, you can connect to the web server from your other compuers, but you can't connect in the other direction. This prevents someone hacking your web server from gaining access to your other computers. I don't have Tomato experience...I'm running another P3 Lnux computer as my firewall/router. Perhaps someone else can comment. Ken B. > Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 18:48:53 2010 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 22:48:53 +0400 Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BE85515.7030605@gmail.com> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Hi all... Anybody hosting their own web server from home? > > Not now. I did that for years. Even, what may sounds funny, I hosted at home a server of real company [a backup], when troubles happened with the real one. > As a learning exercise I am considering setting up a server with this > configuration: > > Hardware: Asus EeePC 900HA (built-in UPS! :-) > OS: Debian Squeeze > Web Server: nginx serving up some static web pages created in ikiwiki > Router: Linksys WRT54GL running Tomato 1.27 > ISP: Teksavvy (whose Terms of Use allow running home servers) > > If the traffic is not going to be large, you may host it on a box that possibly could cost less than 100 $. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 19:03:18 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 12:03:18 -0700 Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: <4BE85515.7030605-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE85515.7030605@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Daniel Armstrong wrote: >> >> Hi all... Anybody hosting their own web server from home? >> >> > > Not now. I did that for years. Even, what may sounds funny, I hosted at home > a server of real company [a backup], when troubles happened with the real > one. > >> As a learning exercise I am considering setting up a server with this >> configuration: >> >> Hardware: Asus EeePC 900HA (built-in UPS! :-) >> OS: Debian Squeeze >> Web Server: nginx serving up some static web pages created in ikiwiki >> Router: Linksys WRT54GL running Tomato 1.27 >> ISP: Teksavvy (whose Terms of Use allow running home servers) >> >> > > If the traffic is not going to be large, you may host it on a box that > possibly could cost less than 100 $. > > zb. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Mini-ITX /w a via C7 processor and 1GB of RAM (which would be excessive except that it also does Samba, LDAP, etc etc). I've had the same cruddy little APC ups for *years* and the thing never seems to go down in a power outage. There's something to be said for low-power-consumption rigs, even if it also tends to mean they're a little pokey at times if you need to recompile the kernel or mogrify a bunch of pictures. I don't know if I'd run an EEE laptop 24/7 though. They tend to get a bit finicky when they're running warm for awhile (or at least mine does). -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 19:07:15 2010 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:07:15 -0400 Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BE85963.8020706@tmis.ca> If it is for business. dont run a home server. Most home connections push 80k to120k/sec, which is very slow. Plus you are almost guaranteed of not getting a static IP from your provider. I think you would be much better off getting a dedicated or virtual server from a web hosting company and using a static ip. If you do decide to run the server from home,.set it up so it can be relocated to a datacenter when that time arrives. Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Hi all... Anybody hosting their own web server from home? > > As a learning exercise I am considering setting up a server with this > configuration: > > Hardware: Asus EeePC 900HA (built-in UPS! :-) > OS: Debian Squeeze > Web Server: nginx serving up some static web pages created in ikiwiki > Router: Linksys WRT54GL running Tomato 1.27 > ISP: Teksavvy (whose Terms of Use allow running home servers) > > A few questions: > > 1/ Good registrar? I saw the earlier thread about registering *.ca > domains... any reason to pay a bit more at domainsatcost.ca vs - for > example - godaddy to register a *.com domain? > > 2/ For a home server... has experience proved it pays to put the > server on a separate subnet vs basic forwarding of port 80? I found a > good tutorial for creating another VLAN in Tomato: > > http://www.seiichiro0185.org/doku.php/blog:creating_a_seperate_guest_network_with_tomato > > Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 19:21:26 2010 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:21:26 -0400 Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Daniel Armstrong wrote: >> Hi all... Anybody hosting their own web server from home? > > Do you need a .com? > Are you using a fixed IP with TS? If not, go to dyndns.org, and > install the daemon to update the DNS via your IP. > For my home box I just a "myname.homeip.net" domain, which works fine. > My actual server-out-in-the-world has a .COM, but for a test box you > don't really need it? Hi Tyler... I am going to be using my own *.com and I have a static IP from Teksavvy. > >> 2/ For a home server... has experience proved it pays to put the >> server on a separate subnet vs basic forwarding of port 80? I found a >> good tutorial for creating another VLAN in Tomato: >> >> http://www.seiichiro0185.org/doku.php/blog:creating_a_seperate_guest_network_with_tomato >> >> Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated. > > If you're not very experienced with running a server yet, it may be an > idea to physically separate it from the rest of the network (VLAN it > or put it on the outside of the router) so if something goes wrong it > won't do "bad things" on your home network. Port forwarding can be > annoying if you find you want to use an alternate port for something. > > Also, switch SSH to a port other than 22. You'll get less sniffing > attacks. Add IP's you commonly want access from (home network, work > IP) to /etc/hosts.allow, and then install the "denyhosts" package to > auto-block those that are attempting to jack your box. > Yes... I am definitely leaning towards the VLAN option. Good point about the SSH. I already use a non-standard port on my Linksys to reach SSH running on my desktop box. I will check out the denyhosts package. Thanks! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 19:28:15 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:28:15 -0400 Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100510152815.35e91662.tleslie@tcn.net> yeah i looked at doing this too. I already discovered in my travels: You have to force off the screen (can do it, google for it), you have to put it on a fan-bed (they sell these things for notebooks), you can get them to power from usb. I have also experimented with usb gigabit adapter on it, and was happy. No need for the linksys in the loop. I was going to use it as a home router, had 4 ethernets working on it, and blasted files across the zones and was very happy. Of course it would also make a nice web server. Fan makes a whinny sound, and i guess would break in time, but a good fan set up should allow it to stay working with even a dead fan. But I was tempted to open it up and see if I could do better, as i wasn't convinced i'd get 10 years mean time between crash/failures. May also want to consider a cisco with linux on it. If price isn't too much of a concern, also check out linuxdevices.com for fanless low power draw devices. Has built in ups, but will wind down to nothing in a few year. I would still put in the wart and put it to a ups as well (redundant ups!), and then look to switch out batteries in both as needed. Only unknown would be, after 24/7 for a year(s), would something just go on it due to a heat pocket somewhere. tl On Mon, 10 May 2010 14:42:03 -0400 Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Hi all... Anybody hosting their own web server from home? > > As a learning exercise I am considering setting up a server with this > configuration: > > Hardware: Asus EeePC 900HA (built-in UPS! :-) > OS: Debian Squeeze > Web Server: nginx serving up some static web pages created in ikiwiki > Router: Linksys WRT54GL running Tomato 1.27 > ISP: Teksavvy (whose Terms of Use allow running home servers) > > A few questions: > > 1/ Good registrar? I saw the earlier thread about registering *.ca > domains... any reason to pay a bit more at domainsatcost.ca vs - for > example - godaddy to register a *.com domain? > > 2/ For a home server... has experience proved it pays to put the > server on a separate subnet vs basic forwarding of port 80? I found a > good tutorial for creating another VLAN in Tomato: > > http://www.seiichiro0185.org/doku.php/blog:creating_a_seperate_guest_network_with_tomato > > Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 19:25:57 2010 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:25:57 -0400 Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: > > On Mon, 10 May 2010, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > >> Hi all... Anybody hosting their own web server from home? > > Yes, though it looks like it didn't come back up after yesterday's power > failure. > > Always put your webserver on a separate subnet and configure your router so > that the web server is a DMZ. ?This way, you can connect to the web server > from your other compuers, but you can't connect in the other direction. > ?This prevents someone hacking your web server from gaining access to your > other computers. Thamks Ken... I will have to read up on some basic iptables rules to get this going. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 19:29:53 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:29:53 -0400 Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: <4BE85963.8020706-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE85963.8020706@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20100510192953.GA21879@yam.witteman.ca> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 03:07:15PM -0400, teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org wrote: > >If it is for business. dont run a home server. >Most home connections push 80k to120k/sec, which is very slow. >Plus you are almost guaranteed of not getting a static IP from your >provider. The OP's provider is Teksavvy, which does allow both servers and static IPs. >I think you would be much better off getting a dedicated or virtual >server from a web hosting company and using a static ip. >If you do decide to run the server from home,.set it up so it can be >relocated to a datacenter when that time arrives. This is far from free, whereas a home server is much closer to free. >>1/ Good registrar? I saw the earlier thread about registering *.ca >>domains... any reason to pay a bit more at domainsatcost.ca vs - for >>example - godaddy to register a *.com domain? I second the recommendation of easydns - they are not as cheap, but they have a local office and their service and domain management are very good. You don't have to register with them, of course, but I like that my DNS is hosted there. I have been running a home server for many years, and it works very well, even with ports 80, 443 and 25 open. I use a non-standard ssh port, because no one but me needs to know it. I have out-sourced my server a few times (ADSL upload speeds are slow, and so some of my sites are slower than I'd like), but I keep bringing it back home so that if it breaks I can do something about it. Good luck, and have fun. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 19:30:26 2010 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:30:26 -0400 Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: References: <4BE85515.7030605@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I don't know if I'd run an EEE laptop 24/7 though. They tend to get a > bit finicky when they're running warm for awhile (or at least mine > does). > Well... I am going to find out. :-) What make and model do you have? Mine is the Asus 900HA and it seems to idle around 50C. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 19:39:42 2010 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:39:42 -0400 Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: <20100510152815.35e91662.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100510152815.35e91662.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:28 PM, ted leslie wrote: > yeah i looked at doing this too. > I already discovered in my travels: > You have to force off the screen (can do it, google for it), > you have to put it on a fan-bed (they sell these things for notebooks), Good point about the fan-bed... I will take a look around College/Spadina. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 19:45:05 2010 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:45:05 -0400 Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: <20100510192953.GA21879-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE85963.8020706@tmis.ca> <20100510192953.GA21879@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:29 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 03:07:15PM -0400, teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >>If it is for business. dont run a home server. >>Most home connections push 80k to120k/sec, which is very slow. >>Plus you are almost guaranteed of not getting a static IP from your >>provider. > > The OP's provider is Teksavvy, which does allow both servers and static > IPs. Hi William... Yes I have a static IP. > >>I think you would be much better off getting a dedicated or virtual >>server from a web hosting company and using a static ip. >>If you do decide to run the server from home,.set it up so it can be >>relocated to a datacenter when that time arrives. > > This is far from free, whereas a home server is much closer to free. > >>>1/ Good registrar? I saw the earlier thread about registering *.ca >>>domains... any reason to pay a bit more at domainsatcost.ca vs - for >>>example - godaddy to register a *.com domain? > > I second the recommendation of easydns - they are not as cheap, but they > have a local office and their service and domain management are very > good. ?You don't have to register with them, of course, but I like that > my DNS is hosted there. > > I have been running a home server for many years, and it works very > well, even with ports 80, 443 and 25 open. ?I use a non-standard ssh > port, because no one but me needs to know it. > > I have out-sourced my server a few times (ADSL upload speeds are slow, > and so some of my sites are slower than I'd like), but I keep bringing > it back home so that if it breaks I can do something about it. > > Good luck, and have fun. Thanks for the information! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 19:59:11 2010 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:59:11 -0400 Subject: routers that include openvpn bridges Message-ID: <4BE8658F.2050108@tmis.ca> I have made a few openvpn bridges and roadwarrior vpn users. I portforward 1194/udp from the router to the NAT address of the openvpn server. Its a solution that works. If I used a router that includes openvpn-bridge in the firmware, I could get rid of the openvpn server box. I believe there is a fork of Tomato that does this. I think there are some other open source router firmwares that are able to make openvpn-bridges. Is there any routers and opensource firmwares that will do this? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 20:00:51 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 16:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61b416d3a1c81a2e112f03bf4da940c7.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> > Hi all... Anybody hosting their own web server from home? Yeah, I run my personal website and mail server from my home. All you need is a static IP from TekSavvy. > As a learning exercise I am considering setting up a server with this > configuration: > > Hardware: Asus EeePC 900HA (built-in UPS! :-) > OS: Debian Squeeze > Web Server: nginx serving up some static web pages created in ikiwiki > Router: Linksys WRT54GL running Tomato 1.27 > ISP: Teksavvy (whose Terms of Use allow running home servers) I use my Linux box as a router/webserver/mailserver/samba/Wireless Access Point/DNS. I am currently using Gentoo. > A few questions: > > 1/ Good registrar? I saw the earlier thread about registering *.ca > domains... any reason to pay a bit more at domainsatcost.ca vs - for > example - godaddy to register a *.com domain? I registered my .ca at http://www.netfirms.ca > 2/ For a home server... has experience proved it pays to put the > server on a separate subnet vs basic forwarding of port 80? I found a > good tutorial for creating another VLAN in Tomato: > > http://www.seiichiro0185.org/doku.php/blog:creating_a_seperate_guest_network_with_tomato > > Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 20:43:43 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 16:43:43 -0400 Subject: Upcoming GTALUG Talks Message-ID: 8th June - Distributed Databases with Chris Browne http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2010-06 13th July - Node.js with Myles Braithwaite http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2010-07 10th August - Distributed FS with Madison Kelly http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2010-08 14th September - Mass Linux Desktop Deploy with Colin McGregor http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2010-09 12th October - Amazon EC2 with Fabio FZero http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2010-10 9th November - Stress tests and performance with open source tools with Renata Rocha http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2010-11 14th December - Dynamic Languages Smack Down http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2010-12 -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 03:11:33 2010 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 23:11:33 -0400 Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: <61b416d3a1c81a2e112f03bf4da940c7.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <61b416d3a1c81a2e112f03bf4da940c7.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Jason Carson wrote: >> Hi all... Anybody hosting their own web server from home? > > Yeah, I run my personal website and mail server from my home. All you need > is a static IP from TekSavvy. > > I use my Linux box as a router/webserver/mailserver/samba/Wireless Access > Point/DNS. I am currently using Gentoo. Hi Jason... Yes I have a static IP from Teksavvy. Do you run all these services on your Linux desktop box? Or do you have a dedicated Linux server box separate from your desktop? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 03:00:56 2010 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 23:00:56 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <4BE8236B.1070007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100510230056.3f4a7cd5.hgibson@eol.ca> On Mon, 10 May 2010 11:16:59 -0400 Stephen wrote: > In June I start work on a ten month project for a company that makes > network equipment for ISPs. > > I expect that they have a very tight firewall and web proxy. > > I want to be able to get out from it, of course. > > Nothing more than email and accessing photography web sites that are > banned on most proxies. > > I have read about httptunnel. Is this the way to go? > > I will have an XP machine as client, and have a Linux server with a > public IP at home. > > All thoughts welcome! > > Stephen Stephen, Try to see your employer's point of view. They need to protect their network. The biggest threat to their networks exists been keyboards and chairs. First, they make an exception for you, then they make an exception for Tyler Aviss, then they make an exception for James Knott, and so on. Then they get infected with a virus, and they have to recall all their network equipment. Do you need access to photography websites during the day, or do you want access to photography websites during the day? It sounds like you can do all this stuff from your computer at home. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 03:48:33 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 20:48:33 -0700 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <20100510230056.3f4a7cd5.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> <20100510230056.3f4a7cd5.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: Hey, how'd I get in this example? :-) On 2010-05-10 8:29 PM, "Howard Gibson" wrote: On Mon, 10 May 2010 11:16:59 -0400 Stephen wrote: > In June I start work on a ten month project for a company that makes > network equipment for ISPs... Stephen, Try to see your employer's point of view. They need to protect their network. The biggest threat to their networks exists been keyboards and chairs. First, they make an exception for you, then they make an exception for Tyler Aviss, then they make an exception for James Knott, and so on. Then they get infected with a virus, and they have to recall all their network equipment. Do you need access to photography websites during the day, or do you want access to photography websites during the day? It sounds like you can do all this stuff from your computer at home. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 03:50:09 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 23:50:09 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <20100510230056.3f4a7cd5.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> <20100510230056.3f4a7cd5.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20100511035009.GA4760@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:00:56PM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 2010 11:16:59 -0400 > Stephen wrote: > > > In June I start work on a ten month project for a company that makes > > network equipment for ISPs. > > > > I expect that they have a very tight firewall and web proxy. > > > > I want to be able to get out from it, of course. > > > > Nothing more than email and accessing photography web sites that are > > banned on most proxies. > > > > I have read about httptunnel. Is this the way to go? > > > > I will have an XP machine as client, and have a Linux server with a > > public IP at home. > > > > All thoughts welcome! > > > > Stephen > > Stephen, > > Try to see your employer's point of view. They need to protect > their network. The biggest threat to their networks exists been > keyboards and chairs. First, they make an exception for you, then > they make an exception for Tyler Aviss, then they make an exception > for James Knott, and so on. Then they get infected with a virus, > and they have to recall all their network equipment. > > Do you need access to photography websites during the day, or do > you want access to photography websites during the day? > > It sounds like you can do all this stuff from your computer at home. Seconded. Don't do it. 1. It's unethical. 2. It's cause for dismissal. 3. I'm sure it's learning experience. But, I'm also sure that you can learn just as much some other way. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 03:53:15 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 20:53:15 -0700 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <20100511035009.GA4760-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> <20100510230056.3f4a7cd5.hgibson@eol.ca> <20100511035009.GA4760@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: 4. Hope that your boss and/or the IT dept don't read TLUG archives: -) On 2010-05-10 8:50 PM, "William Park" wrote: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:00:56PM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 2010 11:16:59 -0400 ... Seconded. Don't do it. 1. It's unethical. 2. It's cause for dismissal. 3. I'm sure it's learning experience. But, I'm also sure that you can learn just as much some other way. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 04:01:24 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 00:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Home web server In-Reply-To: References: <61b416d3a1c81a2e112f03bf4da940c7.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <0b0f15dc920f80bcc1c76b24b91104ad.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> > On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Jason Carson > wrote: >>> Hi all... Anybody hosting their own web server from home? >> >> Yeah, I run my personal website and mail server from my home. All you >> need >> is a static IP from TekSavvy. >> >> I use my Linux box as a router/webserver/mailserver/samba/Wireless >> Access >> Point/DNS. I am currently using Gentoo. > > Hi Jason... Yes I have a static IP from Teksavvy. > > Do you run all these services on your Linux desktop box? Or do you > have a dedicated Linux server box separate from your desktop? I have a dedicated server running Gentoo for those services. As for my desktop box I dual boot Win7/Kubuntu. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 04:40:37 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 00:40:37 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> <20100510230056.3f4a7cd5.hgibson@eol.ca> <20100511035009.GA4760@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:53 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > 4. Hope that your boss and/or the IT dept don't read TLUG archives: -) 5. It should not be cause for termination, but it sure could be reason for extra scrutiny, and a need to Tread Particularly Carefully for the duration of the contract. It's not as if this is the world of Philip K Dick's "Paycheck", where you're signing your memories from the last two years away, and they'll make sure you don't remember what you worked on. If they're paying to do Internet Photography, then it's reasonable to expect them to provide access to that. If they're paying to work on an Internet appliance, then doing non-appliancy things at work isn't part of the job. Working at one's work for 10 months, when at the office, is not a notably heinous thing. There's extra justification for not bringing work home, too. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 13:03:02 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 09:03:02 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> <20100510230056.3f4a7cd5.hgibson@eol.ca> <20100511035009.GA4760@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Speaking as someone who recently had to deal with this kind of stuff (the employee in question was looking at that Adult Friend Finder type sites). I simple blocked the website at the DNS level to redirect to a internal web server with a simple splash page saying "This website has been blocked by the SysAdmin". No ever contacted the employee and after this block was put in place we even noticed a pickup in his sales. Most companies don't measure you work in hours worked but if you are actually getting the job done (speaking of most desk jobs). Most wouldn't mind if you spend 30 minutes a day looking at different photography sites (which by the way are the most common to be blocked). On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:40 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:53 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> 4. Hope that your boss and/or the IT dept don't read TLUG archives: -) > > 5. ?It should not be cause for termination, but it sure could be > reason for extra scrutiny, and a need to Tread Particularly Carefully > for the duration of the contract. > > It's not as if this is the world of Philip K Dick's "Paycheck", where > you're signing your memories from the last two years away, and they'll > make sure you don't remember what you worked on. > > If they're paying to do Internet Photography, then it's reasonable to > expect them to provide access to that. ?If they're paying to work on > an Internet appliance, then doing non-appliancy things at work isn't > part of the job. > > Working at one's work for 10 months, when at the office, is not a > notably heinous thing. > > There's extra justification for not bringing work home, too. > > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 13:23:00 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 09:23:00 -0400 Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> <20100510230056.3f4a7cd5.hgibson@eol.ca> <20100511035009.GA4760@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4BE95A34.8070106@rogers.com> Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Speaking as someone who recently had to deal with this kind of stuff > (the employee in question was looking at that Adult Friend Finder type > sites). I simple blocked the website at the DNS level to redirect to a > internal web server with a simple splash page saying "This website has > been blocked by the SysAdmin". No ever contacted the employee and > after this block was put in place we even noticed a pickup in his > sales. > > Most companies don't measure you work in hours worked but if you are > actually getting the job done (speaking of most desk jobs). Most > wouldn't mind if you spend 30 minutes a day looking at different > photography sites (which by the way are the most common to be > blocked). > I am an independent contractor, and I have both a consulting business and a photography business. I receive messages to my account on the photography web site. I want to be able to access and reply to them at lunch time. But the site is blocked at most businesses I have been at. I do not want to browse the site on my laptop computer inside the business network. I want to use VNC over SSH to my home computer, and browse the web from there. In my experience people who know how to do this kind of thing frighten many IT staff. If I am lucky there will be some really good IT people, but I have rarely been lucky in this way. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 15:12:14 2010 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <4BE95A34.8070106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE8236B.1070007@rogers.com> <20100510230056.3f4a7cd5.hgibson@eol.ca> <20100511035009.GA4760@node1.opengeometry.net> <4BE95A34.8070106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <976661.65701.qm@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Technical: A simple option to the ssh/vnc to your home computer is just to use logmein.com (free for personal use). It goes through web (ssl) so if there's a web proxy it may be blocked though. Human: without getting into legal/ethical issues I think it's "bad" to try and circumvent a company's network/security policy without their knowledge. You can try and see after a few days how the Internet is used (for example people browsing during lunch may be fine) and then for example comment that you are going to browse too but through your home desktop, since you have your settings there and it's safer for them (no stuff downloaded locally etc). Try to see this from the company's and their IT guys' point of view. I wouldn't have a problem with people doing some personal browsing in my company (they can do whatever they want as long as the jobs is done) but I would have a serious issue with somebody that purposely and without asking tries and goes around the policy and other people's work; it's a breach of trust. --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Stephen To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Tue, May 11, 2010 9:23:00 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Speaking as someone who recently had to deal with this kind of stuff > (the employee in question was looking at that Adult Friend Finder type > sites). I simple blocked the website at the DNS level to redirect to a > internal web server with a simple splash page saying "This website has > been blocked by the SysAdmin". No ever contacted the employee and > after this block was put in place we even noticed a pickup in his > sales. > > Most companies don't measure you work in hours worked but if you are > actually getting the job done (speaking of most desk jobs). Most > wouldn't mind if you spend 30 minutes a day looking at different > photography sites (which by the way are the most common to be > blocked). > I am an independent contractor, and I have both a consulting business and a photography business. I receive messages to my account on the photography web site. I want to be able to access and reply to them at lunch time. But the site is blocked at most businesses I have been at. I do not want to browse the site on my laptop computer inside the business network. I want to use VNC over SSH to my home computer, and browse the web from there. In my experience people who know how to do this kind of thing frighten many IT staff. If I am lucky there will be some really good IT people, but I have rarely been lucky in this way. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 15:41:04 2010 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 08:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall In-Reply-To: <976661.65701.qm-Tm7EnexblBL5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <976661.65701.qm@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <434610.92760.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Good reminder, Fernando. I bet many of us in the corporate world have signed all sorts of documents stating we'll be abiding by these various policies. Be aware that by circumventing the corporate firewall you may be breaking some agreement you've signed. --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Fernando Duran wrote: > From: Fernando Duran > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [OT] Getting out from behind a corporate firewall > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 3:12 PM > Technical: A simple option to the > ssh/vnc to your home computer is just to use logmein.com > (free for personal use). It goes through web (ssl) so if > there's a web proxy it may be blocked though. > > Human: without getting into legal/ethical issues I think > it's "bad" to try and circumvent a company's > network/security policy without their knowledge. You can try > and see after a few days how the Internet is used (for > example people browsing during lunch may be fine) and then > for example comment that you are going to browse too but > through your home desktop, since you have your settings > there and it's safer for them (no stuff downloaded locally > etc).? > > Try to see this from the company's and their IT guys' point > of view. I wouldn't have a problem with people doing some > personal browsing in my company (they can do whatever they > want as long as the jobs is done) but I would have a serious > issue with somebody that purposely and without asking tries > and goes around the policy and other people's work; it's a > breach of trust. > --------------------- > Fernando Duran > http://www.fduran.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Stephen > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Tue, May 11, 2010 9:23:00 AM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [OT] Getting out from behind a > corporate firewall > > Myles Braithwaite wrote: > > Speaking as someone who recently had to deal with this > kind of stuff > > (the employee in question was looking at that Adult > Friend Finder type > > sites). I simple blocked the website at the DNS level > to redirect to a > > internal web server with a simple splash page saying > "This website has > > been blocked by the SysAdmin". No ever contacted the > employee and > > after this block was put in place we even noticed a > pickup in his > > sales. > > > > Most companies don't measure you work in hours worked > but if you are > > actually getting the job done (speaking of most desk > jobs). Most > > wouldn't mind if you spend 30 minutes a day looking at > different > > photography sites (which by the way are the most > common to be > > blocked). > >? > I am an independent contractor, and I have both a > consulting business and a photography business. > > I receive messages to my account on the photography web > site. I want to be able to access and reply to them at lunch > time. But the site is blocked at most businesses I have been > at. > > I do not want to browse the site on my laptop computer > inside the business network. > > I want to use VNC over SSH to my home computer, and browse > the web from there. > > In my experience people who know how to do this kind of > thing frighten many IT staff. > > If I am lucky there will be some really good IT people, but > I have rarely been lucky in this way. > > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 16:00:59 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 12:00:59 -0400 Subject: need some networking help! Message-ID: Hey folks, I'm hoping there's someone out there who can help me with a networking problem; I kind of doubt the issue is linux-based byt i suppose it's possible. Here's the deal: I am building an ubuntu-based computer centre in the basement of a social housing building in Kensington Market. The internet here comesi n via dsl to an 8-port router and is farmed out from there to various computers and I believe a wireless outer somewhere else in the building. I was hoping to connect a donated hub (thanks PlanetGeek!) to the router and use the hub to serve out internet service to the computers in our little cluster,but try as i might I can't get a dhcp connection to work. here's a little more info: the hub is a D-link DES-1024R 10/100 switch. there's no serial console & nothing in the manual about setting the switch up. (manual is here:http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CBIQFjAA&url=ftp%3A%2F%2Fftp.dlink.co.uk%2Fswitches%2Fdes-1016r%2Fdes-1016r_manual_v.02.pdf&ei=V33pS8ytDIP68Aahw9TmDg&usg=AFQjCNG9XxOyyCFBtkqn7JP5wZnVJJtFqA&sig2=EE4ha-MwDs8kkOZCU_Ep6g) Attaching a straight-through cat-5 cable from the router to either the uplink or one of the standard ports, I get solid green on both lights for that port, indicating an active link. attaching another cable from one of the other ports to my laptop, i get two more green lights on that port, again indicating an active link. unfortunately, network-manager fails to connect (this is under ubuntu lucid, so a recent n-m). the same cables work fine for me if i hook my laptop directly into the hub, so i know that's not the issue. logs indicate that i'm getting a dhcp timeout; i've attached a sample output from /var/log/daemon.log so you cna see what I mean. Anyway, if anyone can help i'd be really grateful. This is a volunteer project, too -- if you feel like volunteering some time -- or if you think my switch is broken & you havea better one -- by all means let me know! thanks much, matt /var/log/daemon.log: May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) starting connection 'Auto eth0' May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: (eth0): device state change: 3 -> 4 (reason 0) May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 1 of 5 (Device Prepare) scheduled... May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 1 of 5 (Device Prepare) started... May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 2 of 5 (Device Configure) scheduled... May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 1 of 5 (Device Prepare) complete. May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 2 of 5 (Device Configure) starting... May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: (eth0): device state change: 4 -> 5 (reason 0) May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 2 of 5 (Device Configure) successful. May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 3 of 5 (IP Configure Start) scheduled. May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 2 of 5 (Device Configure) complete. May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 3 of 5 (IP Configure Start) started... May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: (eth0): device state change: 5 -> 7 (reason 0) May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Beginning DHCP transaction (timeout in 45 seconds) May 11 11:56:16 roke dhclient: Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Client V3.1.3 May 11 11:56:16 roke dhclient: Copyright 2004-2009 Internet Systems Consortium. May 11 11:56:16 roke dhclient: All rights reserved. May 11 11:56:16 roke dhclient: For info, please visit https://www.isc.org/software/dhcp/ May 11 11:56:16 roke dhclient: May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: dhclient started with pid 9719 May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 4 of 5 (IP6 Configure Get) scheduled... May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 3 of 5 (IP Configure Start) complete. May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 4 of 5 (IP6 Configure Get) started... May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 4 of 5 (IP6 Configure Get) complete. May 11 11:56:16 roke NetworkManager: DHCP: device eth0 state changed normal exit -> preinit May 11 11:56:16 roke dhclient: Listening on LPF/eth0/00:26:2d:f3:77:c8 May 11 11:56:16 roke dhclient: Sending on LPF/eth0/00:26:2d:f3:77:c8 May 11 11:56:16 roke dhclient: Sending on Socket/fallback May 11 11:56:20 roke dhclient: DHCPREQUEST of 192.168.25.59 on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 May 11 11:56:27 roke dhclient: DHCPREQUEST of 192.168.25.59 on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 May 11 11:56:40 roke dhclient: DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 6 May 11 11:56:46 roke dhclient: DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 9 May 11 11:56:55 roke dhclient: DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 21 May 11 11:57:02 roke NetworkManager: (eth0): DHCP transaction took too long, stopping it. May 11 11:57:02 roke NetworkManager: (eth0): canceled DHCP transaction, dhcp client pid 9719 May 11 11:57:02 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 4 of 5 (IP4 Configure Timeout) scheduled... May 11 11:57:02 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 4 of 5 (IP4 Configure Timeout) started... May 11 11:57:02 roke NetworkManager: (eth0): device state change: 7 -> 9 (reason 5) May 11 11:57:02 roke NetworkManager: Marking connection 'Auto eth0' invalid. May 11 11:57:02 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) failed. May 11 11:57:02 roke NetworkManager: Activation (eth0) Stage 4 of 5 (IP4 Configure Timeout) complete. May 11 11:57:02 roke NetworkManager: (eth0): device state change: 9 -> 3 (reason 0) May 11 11:57:02 roke NetworkManager: (eth0): deactivating device (reason: 0). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 19:05:11 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 15:05:11 -0400 Subject: Help get DRBD added to RHEL6! Message-ID: <4BE9AA67.6050509@alteeve.com> Red Hat is trying to say that it is "too late" to add DRBD support, which is BS. Please post to this bug and show your support for DRBD! https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=585309 -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 19:41:18 2010 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 15:41:18 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Turn your printer into a mini wind generator Message-ID: <1273606878.1553.459.camel@jimslaptop> I thought this may be of interest to some TLUGers as I know some of you have dead printers in your basement. As part of it's festival which explores sustainability as its theme this year, Subtle Technologies http://www.subtletechnologies.com in partnership with the Sustainability Office, and Learning Zone at the Ontario College of Art and Design is organizing the workshop "Junk to Juice: DIY power generation on the cheap". It is being facilitated by Hackett from the Madagascar Institute. Some of you you may know Hackett for his jet powered bikes and carousels (check out the recent Popular Mechanics article http://tinyurl.com/24t572v ) however at this workshop he will be doing something a little different. This workshop will show you how to take apart a broken scanner or printer and turn it into a mini wind generator. For the full workshop description check out the workshop link on the Subtle Technologies site. There will be a few broken devices on hand to use but now is your chance to make use of that old printer in the basement. Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 19:41:50 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 15:41:50 -0400 Subject: need some networking help! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BE9B2FE.8040905@utoronto.ca> On 05/11/2010 12:00 PM, Matt Price wrote: > Hey folks, > > I'm hoping there's someone out there who can help me with a networking > problem; I kind of doubt the issue is linux-based byt i suppose it's > possible. > > Here's the deal: I am building an ubuntu-based computer centre in the > basement of a social housing building in Kensington Market. The > internet here comesi n via dsl to an 8-port router and is farmed out > from there to various computers and I believe a wireless outer > somewhere else in the building. I was hoping to connect a donated hub > (thanks PlanetGeek!) to the router and use the hub to serve out > internet service to the computers in our little cluster,but try as i > might I can't get a dhcp connection to work. > > here's a little more info: > > the hub is a D-link DES-1024R 10/100 switch. there's no serial console > & nothing in the manual about setting the switch up. > (manual is here:http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CBIQFjAA&url=ftp%3A%2F%2Fftp.dlink.co.uk%2Fswitches%2Fdes-1016r%2Fdes-1016r_manual_v.02.pdf&ei=V33pS8ytDIP68Aahw9TmDg&usg=AFQjCNG9XxOyyCFBtkqn7JP5wZnVJJtFqA&sig2=EE4ha-MwDs8kkOZCU_Ep6g) > > Attaching a straight-through cat-5 cable from the router to either the > uplink or one of the standard ports, I get solid green on both lights > for that port, indicating an active link. > attaching another cable from one of the other ports to my laptop, i > get two more green lights on that port, again indicating an active > link. > > unfortunately, network-manager fails to connect (this is under ubuntu > lucid, so a recent n-m). > > the same cables work fine for me if i hook my laptop directly into the > hub, so i know that's not the issue. > > logs indicate that i'm getting a dhcp timeout; i've attached a sample > output from /var/log/daemon.log so you cna see what I mean. > > Anyway, if anyone can help i'd be really grateful. This is a > volunteer project, too -- if you feel like volunteering some time -- > or if you think my switch is broken & you havea better one -- by all > means let me know! thanks much, Not sure I understand the topology you're describing. In one place you refer to an 8 port router, another hub, and another switch. Technically those are 3 separate pieces of hardware. However, the 8 port router likely combines switch+hub for you so I think your network looks like this? | DSL In | | 8 port router | / \ / \ WiFi | | DES-1024R So, my suggestion would be to first figure out where clients that do get a DHCP address are receiving it from. Put tcpdump or Wireshark to work on a system that is attached to each of the router/wifi/switch to see how the traffic flows through and is broadcast on the network. Also, to test the functionality of the DES-1024R itself, disconnect it from the uplink and run a DHCP server of your laptop etc. and see if another system on one of the switch's ports receives an IP (again, use Wireshark to capture the traffic). Just some things to try, good luck! Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 20:09:27 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 16:09:27 -0400 Subject: Help get DRBD added to RHEL6! In-Reply-To: <4BE9AA67.6050509-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE9AA67.6050509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Digimer wrote: > Red Hat is trying to say that it is "too late" to add DRBD support, which is > BS. Please post to this bug and show your support for DRBD! Are you sure that spamming them will cause a desirable outcome? I don't think it's at all obvious that this will turn out in a good way. I don't imagine that they were totally arbitrary in declining to do the work to add DRBD for this release. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 20:23:23 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 16:23:23 -0400 Subject: Help get DRBD added to RHEL6! In-Reply-To: <4BE9AA67.6050509-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE9AA67.6050509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20100511202323.GA11274@watson-wilon.ca> Considering that RHEL 6 beta has now been released I don't see how it is not too late. Wouldn't adding DRBD involve kernel changes? -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 20:29:36 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 16:29:36 -0400 Subject: Help get DRBD added to RHEL6! In-Reply-To: References: <4BE9AA67.6050509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4BE9BE30.30907@utoronto.ca> On 05/11/2010 04:09 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Digimer wrote: >> Red Hat is trying to say that it is "too late" to add DRBD support, which is >> BS. Please post to this bug and show your support for DRBD! > > Are you sure that spamming them will cause a desirable outcome? I > don't think it's at all obvious that this will turn out in a good way. > > I don't imagine that they were totally arbitrary in declining to do > the work to add DRBD for this release. DRBD is in mainstream kernel.org sources so if it is needed that badly building it shouldn't be too much trouble. But then I'd expect if you or your company have a/an RHEL subscription DRBD isn't in widespread use on your network at the moment anyways. As such since it sounds like a nice to have feature rather than a requirement, build it from source until RedHat are will to lend it their commercial support, at which point you can expect to receive and require support for it. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 21:02:53 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 17:02:53 -0400 Subject: need some networking help! In-Reply-To: <4BE9B2FE.8040905-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE9B2FE.8040905@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 05/11/2010 12:00 PM, Matt Price wrote: >> Hey folks, >> >> I'm hoping there's someone out there who can help me with a networking >> problem; I kind of doubt the issue is linux-based byt i suppose it's >> possible. >> >> Here's the deal: ?I am building an ubuntu-based computer centre in the >> basement of a social housing building in Kensington Market. ?The >> internet here comesi n via dsl to an 8-port router and is farmed out >> from there to various computers and I believe a wireless outer >> somewhere else in the building. I was hoping to connect a donated hub >> (thanks PlanetGeek!) to the router and use the hub to serve out >> internet service to the computers in our little cluster,but try as i >> might I can't get a dhcp connection to work. >> >> here's a little more info: >> >> the hub is a D-link DES-1024R 10/100 switch. there's no serial console >> & nothing in the manual about setting the switch up. >> (manual is here:http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CBIQFjAA&url=ftp%3A%2F%2Fftp.dlink.co.uk%2Fswitches%2Fdes-1016r%2Fdes-1016r_manual_v.02.pdf&ei=V33pS8ytDIP68Aahw9TmDg&usg=AFQjCNG9XxOyyCFBtkqn7JP5wZnVJJtFqA&sig2=EE4ha-MwDs8kkOZCU_Ep6g) >> >> Attaching a straight-through cat-5 cable from the router to either the >> uplink or one of the standard ports, I get solid green on both lights >> for that port, indicating an active link. >> attaching another cable from one of the other ports to my laptop, i >> get two more green lights on that port, again indicating an active >> link. >> >> unfortunately, network-manager fails to connect (this is under ubuntu >> lucid, so a recent n-m). >> >> the same cables work fine for me if i hook my laptop directly into the >> hub, so i know that's not the issue. >> >> logs indicate that i'm getting a dhcp timeout; i've attached a sample >> output from /var/log/daemon.log so you cna see what I mean. >> >> Anyway, if anyone can help i'd be really grateful. ?This is a >> volunteer project, too -- if you feel like volunteering some time -- >> or if you think my switch is broken & you havea ?better one -- by all >> means let me know! ?thanks much, > > Not sure I understand the topology you're describing. In one place you > refer to an 8 port router, another hub, and another switch. Technically > those are 3 separate pieces of hardware. However, the 8 port router > likely combines switch+hub for you so I think your network looks like this? > > ? ? ? ? | > ? ? ? DSL In > ? ? ? ? | > ? ? ? ? | > ? 8 port router > ? ? ? ? | > ? ? ? ?/ \ > ? ? ? / ? \ > ? ? WiFi ? | > ? ? ? ? ? ?| > ? ? ? ?DES-1024R > > So, my suggestion would be to first figure out where clients that do get > a DHCP address are receiving it from. Put tcpdump or Wireshark to work > on a system that is attached to each of the router/wifi/switch to see > how the traffic flows through and is broadcast on the network. > > Also, to test the functionality of the DES-1024R itself, disconnect it > from the uplink and run a DHCP server of your laptop etc. and see if > another system on one of the switch's ports receives an IP (again, use > Wireshark to capture the traffic). > > Just some things to try, good luck! > I'm pretty sure what he's saying is that he has a hub/switch between the router and clients. Nevertheless your advice is accurate, and it is confusing to me when he says that "the same cables work fine for me if i hook my laptop directly into the hub, so i know that's not the issue.". Does that mean he gets connected to the 'Net? and without any interaction with the router? That makes no sense to me, but it's been awhile, so... -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 21:03:01 2010 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 17:03:01 -0400 Subject: Globe and Mail request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Some of you may be interested in responding to this. I'd love to participate, but my kids are too old. Having comments from parents who are open-source-cluefull will be valuable. - Evan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anderssen, Erin Date: 11 May 2010 16:32 Subject: Globe and Mail request To: "evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org" Hello, I am a feature writer with the Globe and Mail working on a story for this week on internet downloading and ?what-constitutes-piracy? debate. I am looking for parents with kids in Grade School (between the ages of 7 and 13) who download freely themselves and have discussed the copyright issue with their kids, exploring when it?s okay and when it?s not. Given the nature of the subject, identities will be protected and names will not be used, when requested. The story is quite specific ? we?d like to hear how parents are approaching the ethics and legal aspect of this issue with sons and daughters who are not yet teenagers. My deadline is Thursday afternoon. The best way to contact me is by email: eanderssen-tPyU6gFVlc87lZ9V/NTDH+G/Ez6ZCGd0 at public.gmane.org I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks very much for your time, Erin Anderssen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 21:08:23 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 17:08:23 -0400 Subject: need some networking help! In-Reply-To: References: <4BE9B2FE.8040905@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4BE9C747.8050801@rogers.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Jamon Camisso > wrote: > >> On 05/11/2010 12:00 PM, Matt Price wrote: >> >>> Hey folks, >>> >>> I'm hoping there's someone out there who can help me with a networking >>> problem; I kind of doubt the issue is linux-based byt i suppose it's >>> possible. >>> >>> Here's the deal: I am building an ubuntu-based computer centre in the >>> basement of a social housing building in Kensington Market. The >>> internet here comesi n via dsl to an 8-port router and is farmed out >>> from there to various computers and I believe a wireless outer >>> somewhere else in the building. I was hoping to connect a donated hub >>> (thanks PlanetGeek!) to the router and use the hub to serve out >>> internet service to the computers in our little cluster,but try as i >>> might I can't get a dhcp connection to work. >>> >>> here's a little more info: >>> >>> the hub is a D-link DES-1024R 10/100 switch. there's no serial console >>> & nothing in the manual about setting the switch up. >>> (manual is here:http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CBIQFjAA&url=ftp%3A%2F%2Fftp.dlink.co.uk%2Fswitches%2Fdes-1016r%2Fdes-1016r_manual_v.02.pdf&ei=V33pS8ytDIP68Aahw9TmDg&usg=AFQjCNG9XxOyyCFBtkqn7JP5wZnVJJtFqA&sig2=EE4ha-MwDs8kkOZCU_Ep6g) >>> >>> Attaching a straight-through cat-5 cable from the router to either the >>> uplink or one of the standard ports, I get solid green on both lights >>> for that port, indicating an active link. >>> attaching another cable from one of the other ports to my laptop, i >>> get two more green lights on that port, again indicating an active >>> link. >>> >>> unfortunately, network-manager fails to connect (this is under ubuntu >>> lucid, so a recent n-m). >>> >>> the same cables work fine for me if i hook my laptop directly into the >>> hub, so i know that's not the issue. >>> >>> logs indicate that i'm getting a dhcp timeout; i've attached a sample >>> output from /var/log/daemon.log so you cna see what I mean. >>> >>> Anyway, if anyone can help i'd be really grateful. This is a >>> volunteer project, too -- if you feel like volunteering some time -- >>> or if you think my switch is broken& you havea better one -- by all >>> means let me know! thanks much, >>> >> Not sure I understand the topology you're describing. In one place you >> refer to an 8 port router, another hub, and another switch. Technically >> those are 3 separate pieces of hardware. However, the 8 port router >> likely combines switch+hub for you so I think your network looks like this? >> >> | >> DSL In >> | >> | >> 8 port router >> | >> / \ >> / \ >> WiFi | >> | >> DES-1024R >> >> So, my suggestion would be to first figure out where clients that do get >> a DHCP address are receiving it from. Put tcpdump or Wireshark to work >> on a system that is attached to each of the router/wifi/switch to see >> how the traffic flows through and is broadcast on the network. >> >> Also, to test the functionality of the DES-1024R itself, disconnect it >> from the uplink and run a DHCP server of your laptop etc. and see if >> another system on one of the switch's ports receives an IP (again, use >> Wireshark to capture the traffic). >> >> Just some things to try, good luck! >> >> > I'm pretty sure what he's saying is that he has a hub/switch between > the router and clients. Nevertheless your advice is accurate, and it > is confusing to me when he says that "the same cables work fine for me > if i hook my laptop directly into the > hub, so i know that's not the issue.". Does that mean he gets > connected to the 'Net? and without any interaction with the router? > That makes no sense to me, but it's been awhile, so... > > > The simplest thing is to try the router by itself, without any hub or switch and then work from there. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 23:37:13 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 19:37:13 -0400 Subject: need some networking help! In-Reply-To: References: <4BE9B2FE.8040905@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Jamon Camisso > wrote: >> On 05/11/2010 12:00 PM, Matt Price wrote: >>> Hey folks, >>> >>> I'm hoping there's someone out there who can help me with a networking >>> problem; I kind of doubt the issue is linux-based byt i suppose it's >>> possible. >>> >>> Here's the deal: ?I am building an ubuntu-based computer centre in the >>> basement of a social housing building in Kensington Market. ?The >>> internet here comesi n via dsl to an 8-port router and is farmed out >>> from there to various computers and I believe a wireless outer >>> somewhere else in the building. I was hoping to connect a donated hub >>> (thanks PlanetGeek!) to the router and use the hub to serve out >>> internet service to the computers in our little cluster,but try as i >>> might I can't get a dhcp connection to work. >>> >>> here's a little more info: >>> >>> the hub is a D-link DES-1024R 10/100 switch. there's no serial console >>> & nothing in the manual about setting the switch up. >>> (manual is here:http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CBIQFjAA&url=ftp%3A%2F%2Fftp.dlink.co.uk%2Fswitches%2Fdes-1016r%2Fdes-1016r_manual_v.02.pdf&ei=V33pS8ytDIP68Aahw9TmDg&usg=AFQjCNG9XxOyyCFBtkqn7JP5wZnVJJtFqA&sig2=EE4ha-MwDs8kkOZCU_Ep6g) >>> >>> Attaching a straight-through cat-5 cable from the router to either the >>> uplink or one of the standard ports, I get solid green on both lights >>> for that port, indicating an active link. >>> attaching another cable from one of the other ports to my laptop, i >>> get two more green lights on that port, again indicating an active >>> link. >>> >>> unfortunately, network-manager fails to connect (this is under ubuntu >>> lucid, so a recent n-m). >>> >>> the same cables work fine for me if i hook my laptop directly into the >>> hub, so i know that's not the issue. >>> >>> logs indicate that i'm getting a dhcp timeout; i've attached a sample >>> output from /var/log/daemon.log so you cna see what I mean. >>> >>> Anyway, if anyone can help i'd be really grateful. ?This is a >>> volunteer project, too -- if you feel like volunteering some time -- >>> or if you think my switch is broken & you havea ?better one -- by all >>> means let me know! ?thanks much, >> >> Not sure I understand the topology you're describing. In one place you >> refer to an 8 port router, another hub, and another switch. Technically >> those are 3 separate pieces of hardware. However, the 8 port router >> likely combines switch+hub for you so I think your network looks like this? >> >> ? ? ? ? | >> ? ? ? DSL In >> ? ? ? ? | >> ? ? ? ? | >> ? 8 port router >> ? ? ? ? | >> ? ? ? ?/ \ >> ? ? ? / ? \ >> ? ? WiFi ? | >> ? ? ? ? ? ?| >> ? ? ? ?DES-1024R >> >> So, my suggestion would be to first figure out where clients that do get >> a DHCP address are receiving it from. Put tcpdump or Wireshark to work >> on a system that is attached to each of the router/wifi/switch to see >> how the traffic flows through and is broadcast on the network. >> >> Also, to test the functionality of the DES-1024R itself, disconnect it >> from the uplink and run a DHCP server of your laptop etc. and see if >> another system on one of the switch's ports receives an IP (again, use >> Wireshark to capture the traffic). >> >> Just some things to try, good luck! >> > > I'm pretty sure what he's saying is that he has a hub/switch between > the router and clients. Nevertheless your advice is accurate, and it > is confusing to me when he says that "the same cables work fine for me > if i hook my laptop directly into the > hub, so i know that's not the issue.". Does that mean he gets > connected to the 'Net? and without any interaction with the router? > That makes no sense to me, but it's been awhile, so... hey folks, stupidly switched my tlug mail to gmail and so am not sure i'm replying to the right subthread, but: apologies to esp. jamon and thomas for the confused terminology. I meant to say "the same cables work fine for me if i hook my laptop directly into the ROUTER" -- as usual i was typing in a hurry, this time bc i was being kicked out of the basement over at the site. The word "hub" shouldn't have been used at all the topology is (forgive non-monospaced diagram): DSL | ROUTER | \ \ | \ \ | \ Other Stuff | \ 802.11 My Switch | | Ubuntu Desktops/My Test Laptop The router provides dhcp to everyone else, including (I think) the 802.11 wireless service, which I shouldn't have mentioned anyway since it has no bearing on this problem. if i bypass the switch by hooking in directly to the router I can connect directly to the 'Net, no problem. However, the DHCP client on my laptop fails to connect if I wire things as shown above. My main question is, at what point should I consider the problem to be an issue with the switch? If the uplink port has an issue, shouldn't I just be able to plug the router into one of the other switch ports? I thought most switches would sort of automagically route traffic to the outgoing port. anyway thanks to both of you; Jamon, I will try wireshark & tcpdump when I get back to the site on thursday. best, matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 00:42:22 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 20:42:22 -0400 Subject: OT: Does Anyone Have A Working Food Processor...? Message-ID: I just had the last of my dental surgery, I now no longer have any teeth left in my mouth, so I'll need to eat pureed food, so I am in desperate need of a food processor; does anyone have one..?! -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 01:33:39 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 21:33:39 -0400 Subject: Looking to use SIM card reader Message-ID: <20100512013339.GA5807@yam.witteman.ca> I just bought a SIM card reader, in hopes of using it to back up phone settings, numbers, etc. I hope I can make it work under Linux (it was $4, so I thought it would be worth a try). Near as I can tell from dmesg it is being treated like a serial device: [172293.344009] usb 4-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 3 [172293.506999] usb 4-1: New USB device found, idVendor=067b, idProduct=2303 [172293.507003] usb 4-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0 [172293.507005] usb 4-1: Product: USB-Serial Controller [172293.507007] usb 4-1: Manufacturer: Prolific Technology Inc. [172293.507099] usb 4-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice [172293.510067] pl2303 4-1:1.0: pl2303 converter detected [172293.522086] usb 4-1: pl2303 converter now attached to ttyUSB0 The next question - how do you talk to serial devices? I was sort of hoping that this device, which looks like a USB card reader, would allow me to view the SIM card as storage, but no :-( Anyone have any pointers? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 01:35:39 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 21:35:39 -0400 Subject: MSI laptops Message-ID: I saw these MSI laptops, and they seem to have pretty good specs relative to what I had seen recommended on here. One example I saw in a store on College came with Core 2 duo, 4GB, 500 BG HDD, Dual layer DVD - RW, ATI 4330 Graphic card, etc. for $730.00 I don't like the ATI, but it's not for me, and it's going to be running Win 7 anyway :-( Anyone know or have experience with MSI? -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 03:49:45 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 23:49:45 -0400 Subject: Cluster Workshop Message-ID: <4BEA2559.10804@alteeve.com> Hi all, First, thank you to all who showed up to this evening's talk. I apologize for not covering an example use of the cluster, but I am happy that we got to the end of the initial cluster start up. :) Clustering isn't hard, but it is a large topic. To this end, I've been thinking of running a Cluster Boot Camp this summer. Basically, a day or two where you could come with your hardware and leave with a cluster. To pull this off though, I would need to have a good idea of how many people are interested. The number would effect where I would be able to host such an event. If there were only a few people or groups interested, I could probably host it for free. If I need more space, I will need to see what space I could get and, if there was a fee, how much I would need to ask to cover that fee (my time would be free). I'll flush the idea out more as interest is (or isn't) expressed. Cheers! -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 04:00:47 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 00:00:47 -0400 Subject: Retrieving data from an unmounted mysql database In-Reply-To: <20100510025006.GA3455-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100508162508.GA2606@yam.witteman.ca> <1028420002-1273348016-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-785533584-@bda111.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <20100510025006.GA3455@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: I'm pleased that worked out... As aftermath. I urge that you make sure backups are brought up to "spec" so that the answer to as many such questions as possible can become... "And I solve this by restoring my backup." I'm not familiar with MyISAM internals (let alone other engines like Solid, InnoDB, and such, which'll add to the opacity), but have fiddled little bits with Postgres and filesystems, and expect similar... If you get stuck recovering a failed DB/FS, it's near certain that all you really get is a set of more or less shattered fragments, as opposed to an actual database or filesystem. It's like dropping a plate... Even if you are lucky enough to find all the pieces, you'll not likely ever be serving meals on it again. Fancier porcelain may survive a bit more, but shattering is still shattering, and the metaphor fits pretty well. On May 9, 2010 10:50 PM, "William O'Higgins Witteman" < william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote: On Sat, May 08, 2010 at 07:46:55PM +0000, ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org wrote: >Couldn't you just copy /v... No, at least not in this case - when mysql tried to start it made an effort and then barfed. The solution was that I still had a bootable hard drive from the dead server (it was MB failure that killed it), and I was able to boot it on another machine and do a dump, then pull the dump off to a USB stick and put everything back together again. Thanks for the help! -- yours, William -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFL53ReHQtmiuz+KT8RAoH/AKCo3aMhlXh15KLPRRz4obE6XiQkCQCbBkhr bqd9n2A9v5aYLJHxiQVLLw4= =Ixu9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 06:03:40 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 02:03:40 -0400 Subject: Wireless from the Debian command line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100512060340.GA898@waltdnes.org> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:36:46AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote > Unencrypted wireless seems to be fine, I believe this is entirely > wpa_supplicant-related. I had a similar problem, where open access points worked, but not my wireless router. It was caused by my eth0 route over-riding my wlan0 route, which "is not a good thing". For a quick-n-dirty test, tear down your eth0 with "/etc/init.d/net.eth0 stop" (or Debian equivalant), and then try to connect to your wireless router. If that works, then it's a routing problem. You can modify your route statements to allow multiple routes to co-exist. The key is the "metric" option. The higher the number, the lower priority it has. My home setup is like so... ST546 4-port ADSL router modem with internal network 192.168.123.248/29 which can also be written as 192.168.123.248 netmask 255.255.255.248. The numbers inside the LAN are... 192.168.123.250 Dell d530 desktop 192.168.123.251 Dell d530 desktop 192.168.123.252 external address of Belkin router 192.168.123.254 ST546 internal address My netbook is hooked up to different wired networks at different times, so things get ugly. I sometimes hook it up to an ethernet jack on the Belkin wired+wireless router, to configure the wireless. The internal net behind the Belkin is 192.168.2.0 netmask 255.255.255.0. The Belkin shows up internally as 192.168.2.1, and I assign 192.168.2.2 to my netbook. I've recently purchased an HDHomerun dual-ATSC-tuner, which can be run from the command line in linux (and Windows and Mac). The HDHomerun does *NOT* have static IP addressing, so it uses zeroconf (aka link-local) addresses in 169.254.0.0/16. I need my netbook to be able to connect to it. So I also assign it IP address 169.254.1.1. Here is my /etc/conf.d/net (Gentoo-specific; Debian may differ). #################################################################### config_eth0=( "192.168.2.2 broadcast 192.168.2.255 netmask 255.255.255.0 mtu 1452" "169.254.1.1 broadcast 169.254.0.255 netmask 255.255.0.0" ) routes_eth0=( "default via 192.168.2.1 metric 2" "192.168.123.248/29 via 192.168.2.1 metric 0" "169.254.0.0/16 via 196.254.1.1 metric 0" ) modules=( "wpa_supplicant" ) config_wlan0=( "null" ) wpa_supplicant_wlan0="-Dwext" wpa_timeout_wlan0=15 #################################################################### The netbooks's eth0 has 2 static IP addresses with different networks. The wireless (wlan0) IP address is dynamically assigned. Here's how I think it works... * the highest priority is "metric 0". * Any attempt to ssh to my desktops will go via the wired connection of the Belkin, which is plugged into the ST546 router * Any attempt to talk to the HDHomerun tuner goes via eth0 direct to the tuner * next priority is "metric 1". Dialup and wireless appear to be assigned that value. * lowest in my config is "metric 2". Any packets that aren't specified elsewhere will be taken by the "default route". This is usually used when I'm updating Gentoo on the netbook, and have to talk via the wired connection of the Belkin. * Since I have only 1 physical ethernet jack, at least one of the wired networks is always unreachable, so I get a "network unreachable" warning at bootup. That is not a problem. Debian's conf may be different, but the logic should be the same. I first figured out this stuff when I became annoyed at having to tear down eth0 to allow dialup (ppp0) to connect properly. It looks like I may end up using it in a different way soon. Given Bell's UBB victory, I'll force email and Gentoo updates via dialup, and reserve my ADSL bandwidth for internet radio. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 06:15:17 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 02:15:17 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? Message-ID: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> Before anyone asks... wireless is not an option. Problem 1) I am currently setting up and testing my HDHomerun dual tuner using my netbook. I occasionally need to check something on Google or the support forum for the tuner. That requires connecting to my ADSL router modem in another room. Wireless works fine when I get home from work. The wireless router blasts through a solid concrete wall, and only 4 or 5 access points show up on a scan. Later... that very same evening... all my neighbours in the condo fire up their wireless systems, 16 or more access points show up on a scan, and there are no free channels, and my connection drops due to interference. Problem 2) I'll eventually set up a desktop to control the HDHomerun, and record movies, etc. A 1920x1080 high-definition TV signal uses close to 9 gigabytes per hour for recording OUCH!!! If I want to move recordings over to the desktop PC in my computer den, or watch something live on my PC 24" LCD monitor, a flakey wireless connection is not going to be usable. So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. Will ethernet work over that? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 09:09:29 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 05:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: building a new kernel for ubuntu 10.04 Message-ID: quick and dirty wiki page for building a new kernel for ubuntu 10.04: http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/New_kernel_on_Ubuntu_10.04 let me know if i missed anything critical. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 10:39:26 2010 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 06:39:26 -0400 Subject: Looking to use SIM card reader In-Reply-To: <20100512013339.GA5807-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>; from william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org on Tue, May 11, 2010 at 21:33:39 -0400 References: <20100512013339.GA5807@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100512103926.GA1469@localhost> On Tue May 11,2010 09:33:39 PM William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > The next question - how do you talk to serial devices? Unfortunately, that's roughly the same as asking "How do you talk to an ethernet device". You have to know the higher level protocol that this device uses. E.g. most "dial-up" type modems use "AT" protocol to initiate calls. I don't know if there is a standard protocol in the world of SIM card readers. If they're vendor specific then you might need to get the documentation for this device. Once you know what has to be sent and received to talk to the reader, I may be able to help with configuring the port and communicating with the device. You would treat ttyUSB0 the same as a real serial port, such as ttyS0. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 11:09:47 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 07:09:47 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <20100512061517.GB898-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4BEA8C7B.1020908@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. > Will ethernet work over that? > > Ethernet is rated for up to 100M (330') over CAT 5 cable, but CAT 6 may be better if you're running gigabit. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 11:21:51 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 07:21:51 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <20100512061517.GB898-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Ethernet is spec'd well past 60 feet, something in the neighourhood of 1000 feet, so 60 should not bother it. Dave On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 2:15 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Before anyone asks... wireless is not an option. > > Problem 1) I am currently setting up and testing my HDHomerun dual tuner > using my netbook. ?I occasionally need to check something on Google or > the support forum for the tuner. ?That requires connecting to my ADSL > router modem in another room. ?Wireless works fine when I get home from > work. ?The wireless router blasts through a solid concrete wall, and only > 4 or 5 access points show up on a scan. ?Later... that very same > evening... all my neighbours in the condo fire up their wireless > systems, 16 or more access points show up on a scan, and there are no > free channels, and my connection drops due to interference. > > Problem 2) I'll eventually set up a desktop to control the HDHomerun, > and record movies, etc. ?A 1920x1080 high-definition TV signal uses close > to 9 gigabytes per hour for recording OUCH!!! ?If I want to move > recordings over to the desktop PC in my computer den, or watch something > live on my PC 24" LCD monitor, a flakey wireless connection is not going > to be usable. > > So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. > Will ethernet work over that? > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 11:36:45 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 07:36:45 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4BEA92CD.7010708@rogers.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > Ethernet is spec'd well past 60 feet, something in the neighourhood of > 1000 feet, so 60 should not bother it. It's 100M or 330' max over CAT 5 or 6. The original 10base5, 10 Mbit ethernet would go about 500M over coaxial cable (Thicknet). Much greater distances are possible with fibre. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 11:54:11 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 07:54:11 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEA92CD.7010708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <4BEA92CD.7010708@rogers.com> Message-ID: Thanks, I was guessing ... Dave On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 7:36 AM, James Knott wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: >> >> Ethernet is spec'd well past 60 feet, something in the neighourhood of >> 1000 feet, so 60 should not bother it. > > It's 100M or 330' max over CAT 5 or 6. ?The original 10base5, 10 Mbit > ethernet would go about 500M over coaxial cable (Thicknet). ?Much greater > distances are possible with fibre. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 12:32:08 2010 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 08:32:08 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <20100512061517.GB898-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Last week I cut myself a 200 foot cable. It worked beautifully. -j On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 2:15 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. > Will ethernet work over that? > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 17:51:03 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 13:51:03 -0400 Subject: MSI laptops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100512175103.GU17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 09:35:39PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > I saw these MSI laptops, and they seem to have pretty good specs > relative to what I had seen recommended on here. > > One example I saw in a store on College came with Core 2 duo, 4GB, 500 > BG HDD, Dual layer DVD - RW, ATI 4330 Graphic card, etc. for $730.00 > > I don't like the ATI, but it's not for me, and it's going to be > running Win 7 anyway :-( > > Anyone know or have experience with MSI? I think I have seen better spec lenovo's on sale at lenovo.com for less than that. I stopped using ATI because of their windows drivers (or lack thereof), not because of linux. So buyer beware. I still don't trust them to write software of any kind. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 17:53:27 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 13:53:27 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <20100512061517.GB898-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100512175327.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 02:15:17AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Before anyone asks... wireless is not an option. > > Problem 1) I am currently setting up and testing my HDHomerun dual tuner > using my netbook. I occasionally need to check something on Google or > the support forum for the tuner. That requires connecting to my ADSL > router modem in another room. Wireless works fine when I get home from > work. The wireless router blasts through a solid concrete wall, and only > 4 or 5 access points show up on a scan. Later... that very same > evening... all my neighbours in the condo fire up their wireless > systems, 16 or more access points show up on a scan, and there are no > free channels, and my connection drops due to interference. > > Problem 2) I'll eventually set up a desktop to control the HDHomerun, > and record movies, etc. A 1920x1080 high-definition TV signal uses close > to 9 gigabytes per hour for recording OUCH!!! If I want to move > recordings over to the desktop PC in my computer den, or watch something > live on my PC 24" LCD monitor, a flakey wireless connection is not going > to be usable. > > So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. > Will ethernet work over that? You are allowed 100m of CAT-5 for 100Mbit operation by the spec. It does work in my experience too (200m does not by the way, as would be expected). So 60 feet is nothing. You are allowed 5 times that. Gigabit is a different story. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 17:55:11 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 13:55:11 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEA92CD.7010708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <4BEA92CD.7010708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100512175511.GW17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 07:36:45AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: >> Ethernet is spec'd well past 60 feet, something in the neighourhood of >> 1000 feet, so 60 should not bother it. > It's 100M or 330' max over CAT 5 or 6. The original 10base5, 10 Mbit > ethernet would go about 500M over coaxial cable (Thicknet). Much > greater distances are possible with fibre. And 10base2 (the coax everyone actually used) was allowed 200m. The base# indicated how long the cable run could be in hundreds of meters. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 18:10:18 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:10:18 -0700 Subject: Looking to use SIM card reader In-Reply-To: References: <20100512013339.GA5807@yam.witteman.ca> <20100512103926.GA1469@localhost> Message-ID: Maybe something from "ccid-utils" or the "SCEZ" project on freshmeat might help) On 2010-05-12 3:42 AM, "Scott Allen" wrote: On Tue May 11,2010 09:33:39 PM William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > The next question - how do you ... Unfortunately, that's roughly the same as asking "How do you talk to an ethernet device". You have to know the higher level protocol that this device uses. E.g. most "dial-up" type modems use "AT" protocol to initiate calls. I don't know if there is a standard protocol in the world of SIM card readers. If they're vendor specific then you might need to get the documentation for this device. Once you know what has to be sent and received to talk to the reader, I may be able to help with configuring the port and communicating with the device. You would treat ttyUSB0 the same as a real serial port, such as ttyS0. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 18:11:31 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 14:11:31 -0400 Subject: Looking to use SIM card reader In-Reply-To: <20100512013339.GA5807-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512013339.GA5807@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100512181131.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 09:33:39PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I just bought a SIM card reader, in hopes of using it to back up phone > settings, numbers, etc. > > I hope I can make it work under Linux (it was $4, so I thought it would > be worth a try). Near as I can tell from dmesg it is being treated like > a serial device: > > [172293.344009] usb 4-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and > address 3 > [172293.506999] usb 4-1: New USB device found, idVendor=067b, > idProduct=2303 > [172293.507003] usb 4-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, > SerialNumber=0 > [172293.507005] usb 4-1: Product: USB-Serial Controller > [172293.507007] usb 4-1: Manufacturer: Prolific Technology Inc. > [172293.507099] usb 4-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice > [172293.510067] pl2303 4-1:1.0: pl2303 converter detected > [172293.522086] usb 4-1: pl2303 converter now attached to ttyUSB0 > > The next question - how do you talk to serial devices? > > I was sort of hoping that this device, which looks like a USB card > reader, would allow me to view the SIM card as storage, but no :-( > > Anyone have any pointers? Thanks. /dev/ttyUSB0 is the serial port. Try minicom or something. Of course you would have to know the sim card protocol to talk to it I expect. Check out pySIM (it talks to sim card readers over serial, so that is probably what you want). http://www.ladyada.net/make/simreader/download.html -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 18:15:05 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 14:15:05 -0400 Subject: building a new kernel for ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100512181505.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 05:09:29AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > quick and dirty wiki page for building a new kernel for ubuntu > 10.04: > > http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/New_kernel_on_Ubuntu_10.04 > > let me know if i missed anything critical. How about missing out the making it into a .deb using make-kpkg. That seems like a major step to leave out. make install and make module_install on the other hand should be left out of course. That would also take care of update-initramfs and update-grub for you, and it is trivial to uninstall and clean up later. Essentially your whole installation section is wrong and should be replaced with a make-kpkg and dpkg -i step. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 19:00:13 2010 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 15:00:13 -0400 Subject: Best place to buy 120 USB sticks? Message-ID: I need to buy 120 USB sticks (don't need to be bigger than 1GB) to give to conference attendees in place of a massive kit of paper. Any suggestions on the best places in Toronto in which to get a bulk deal? -- - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:03:45 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:03:45 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <20100512175327.GV17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100512175327.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BEB09A1.2090408@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 02:15:17AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >> >> So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. >> Will ethernet work over that? > > You are allowed 100m of CAT-5 for 100Mbit operation by the spec. > It does work in my experience too (200m does not by the way, as would > be expected). > > So 60 feet is nothing. You are allowed 5 times that. I put in a 50 foot run of CAT-5 through my basement a long time ago. It worked, then I got wireless. Then the wireless hub went flaky. When I tried the cable again, I couldn't get it to work, and gave up (did without until I replaced the wireless hub). If I wanted to get the wired connection working again, where should I start. I don't have any cable debugging tools, just normal household stuff. I suspect I made bad terminal connections, or handled the wire too roughly during installation. If I were to do it over again, I'd buy a pre-made 100-ft cable, instead of connectors and boxes. -- Yanni -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:05:19 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:05:19 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <20100512175511.GW17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <4BEA92CD.7010708@rogers.com> <20100512175511.GW17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BEB09FF.60200@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 07:36:45AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Dave Cramer wrote: >> >>> Ethernet is spec'd well past 60 feet, something in the neighourhood of >>> 1000 feet, so 60 should not bother it. >>> >> It's 100M or 330' max over CAT 5 or 6. The original 10base5, 10 Mbit >> ethernet would go about 500M over coaxial cable (Thicknet). Much >> greater distances are possible with fibre. >> > And 10base2 (the coax everyone actually used) was allowed 200m. The base# > indicated how long the cable run could be in hundreds of meters. > > Now, do you know the maximum distance allowed? Many people confuse this with cable length. Back in the days of coax or hubs, collisions were likely. To properly handle collisions, they had to occur within 64 bytes or 512 bits. This works out to about 50 uS (actually, 51.2). That is also round trip time. In 50 uS, light will travel 15 Km. Divide by 2 for round trip = 7.5 Km. After allowing for cable velocity factor, you're down to about 5 Km end to end. Of course, repeaters etc. also consume time and reduce that distance, but it is reachable with fibre. However all those concerns disappeared with full duplex switches, as collisions do not occur with them. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:06:43 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:06:43 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEB09A1.2090408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100512175327.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB09A1.2090408@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Yanni Chiu wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 02:15:17AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >>> >>> So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. >>> Will ethernet work over that? >> >> You are allowed 100m of CAT-5 for 100Mbit operation by the spec. >> It does work in my experience too (200m does not by the way, as would >> be expected). >> >> So 60 feet is nothing. ?You are allowed 5 times that. > > I put in a 50 foot run of CAT-5 through my basement a long time ago. It > worked, then I got wireless. Then the wireless hub went flaky. When I tried > the cable again, I couldn't get it to work, and gave up (did without until I > replaced the wireless hub). > > If I wanted to get the wired connection working again, where should I start. > I don't have any cable debugging tools, just normal household stuff. > > I suspect I made bad terminal connections, or handled the wire too roughly > during installation. If I were to do it over again, I'd buy a pre-made > 100-ft cable, instead of connectors and boxes. > > -- > Yanni > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > You could: 1. cut both ends 2. join the solid/striped wires 3. use a 9 volt battery to test the pairs (or any circuit tester/voltmeter/etc) 4. recrimp re-crimping the ends may be enough to solve your problem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:08:54 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:08:54 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEB09A1.2090408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100512175327.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB09A1.2090408@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BEB0AD6.6080302@rogers.com> Yanni Chiu wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 02:15:17AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >>> >>> So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. >>> Will ethernet work over that? >> >> You are allowed 100m of CAT-5 for 100Mbit operation by the spec. >> It does work in my experience too (200m does not by the way, as would >> be expected). >> >> So 60 feet is nothing. You are allowed 5 times that. > > I put in a 50 foot run of CAT-5 through my basement a long time ago. > It worked, then I got wireless. Then the wireless hub went flaky. When > I tried the cable again, I couldn't get it to work, and gave up (did > without until I replaced the wireless hub). > > If I wanted to get the wired connection working again, where should I > start. I don't have any cable debugging tools, just normal household > stuff. > > I suspect I made bad terminal connections, or handled the wire too > roughly during installation. If I were to do it over again, I'd buy a > pre-made 100-ft cable, instead of connectors and boxes. > Assuming you haven't driven a nail or something through the cable, bad connections are the likely cause. Just cut off the plugs and carefully put new ones on. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:25:05 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:25:05 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEB09FF.60200-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <4BEA92CD.7010708@rogers.com> <20100512175511.GW17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB09FF.60200@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100512202505.GZ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:05:19PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 07:36:45AM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> >>> Dave Cramer wrote: >>> >>>> Ethernet is spec'd well past 60 feet, something in the neighourhood of >>>> 1000 feet, so 60 should not bother it. >>>> >>> It's 100M or 330' max over CAT 5 or 6. The original 10base5, 10 Mbit >>> ethernet would go about 500M over coaxial cable (Thicknet). Much >>> greater distances are possible with fibre. >>> >> And 10base2 (the coax everyone actually used) was allowed 200m. The base# >> indicated how long the cable run could be in hundreds of meters. >> >> > Now, do you know the maximum distance allowed? Many people confuse this > with cable length. > > Back in the days of coax or hubs, collisions were likely. To properly > handle collisions, they had to occur within 64 bytes or 512 bits. This > works out to about 50 uS (actually, 51.2). That is also round trip > time. In 50 uS, light will travel 15 Km. Divide by 2 for round trip = > 7.5 Km. After allowing for cable velocity factor, you're down to about > 5 Km end to end. Of course, repeaters etc. also consume time and reduce > that distance, but it is reachable with fibre. However all those > concerns disappeared with full duplex switches, as collisions do not > occur with them. With hubs, the maximum in a chain I believe was 5. So from one client to another at most 5 hubs could be in between, with whatever cable length in between each device depending on the cable technology (so 200m for 10base2, 100m for 10baseT/100baseTX, 500m for 10base5). To go further requires a switch or router, not a hub. 5 might be wrong, it might be 4. Hubs really aren't interesting anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:27:32 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:27:32 -0400 Subject: building a new kernel for ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: <20100512181505.GY17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512181505.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BEB0F34.2080001@utoronto.ca> On 05/12/2010 02:15 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 05:09:29AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: >> >> quick and dirty wiki page for building a new kernel for ubuntu >> 10.04: >> >> http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/New_kernel_on_Ubuntu_10.04 >> >> let me know if i missed anything critical. > > How about missing out the making it into a .deb using make-kpkg. > That seems like a major step to leave out. make install and make > module_install on the other hand should be left out of course. That would > also take care of update-initramfs and update-grub for you, and it is > trivial to uninstall and clean up later. > > Essentially your whole installation section is wrong and should be > replaced with a make-kpkg and dpkg -i step. > For make add -j to parallelize processes and speed up the compile, e.g. make -j $(($(grep processor /proc/cpuinfo -c) + 1)) make -j $(awk -F "-" '{printf $2+2}' /sys/devices/system/cpu/possible) Bash folk, syntax sanity check? No point in wasting all but one of those cores in that fancy quad or octal core box sitting under your desk ;) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:32:35 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:32:35 -0400 Subject: Best place to buy 120 USB sticks? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100512203235.GA17443@yam.witteman.ca> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 03:00:13PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >I need to buy 120 USB sticks (don't need to be bigger than 1GB) to give to >conference attendees in place of a massive kit of paper. > >Any suggestions on the best places in Toronto in which to get a bulk deal? I just spoke to the purchaser at the U of T bookstore, and they quoted $11 for 120 2Gb Verbatim sticks. They were going to follow up with their vendor to see if they can do better. I would imagine that Canada Computers does better volumes, and something might be arranged through them, but I don't know them, so I cannot confirm. Hope that helps. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:37:16 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: building a new kernel for ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: <20100512181505.GY17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512181505.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 05:09:29AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > > > quick and dirty wiki page for building a new kernel for ubuntu > > 10.04: > > > > http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/New_kernel_on_Ubuntu_10.04 > > > > let me know if i missed anything critical. > > How about missing out the making it into a .deb using make-kpkg. > That seems like a major step to leave out. make install and make > module_install on the other hand should be left out of course. > That would also take care of update-initramfs and update-grub for > you, and it is trivial to uninstall and clean up later. > > Essentially your whole installation section is wrong and should be > replaced with a make-kpkg and dpkg -i step. yes, i'm actually going to update that shortly. i just started with what i knew. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:50:33 2010 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:50:33 -0400 Subject: Best place to buy 120 USB sticks? In-Reply-To: <20100512203235.GA17443-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512203235.GA17443@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <201005121650.33603.dbmacg@look.ca> TechDirect has 4G units at $7.99 http://techdirectcanada.ca/flyer/ On May 12, 2010 04:32:35 pm you wrote: > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 03:00:13PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >I need to buy 120 USB sticks (don't need to be bigger than 1GB) to give to > >conference attendees in place of a massive kit of paper. > > > >Any suggestions on the best places in Toronto in which to get a bulk deal? > > > I just spoke to the purchaser at the U of T bookstore, and they quoted $11 > for 120 2Gb Verbatim sticks. They were going to follow up with their > vendor to see if they can do better. > > I would imagine that Canada Computers does better volumes, and something > might be arranged through them, but I don't know them, so I cannot > confirm. > > Hope that helps. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:50:56 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:50:56 -0400 Subject: building a new kernel for ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: <4BEB0F34.2080001-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512181505.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB0F34.2080001@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20100512205056.GA17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:27:32PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > For make add -j to parallelize processes and speed up the compile, e.g. > make -j $(($(grep processor /proc/cpuinfo -c) + 1)) > make -j $(awk -F "-" '{printf $2+2}' /sys/devices/system/cpu/possible) > > Bash folk, syntax sanity check? > > No point in wasting all but one of those cores in that fancy quad or > octal core box sitting under your desk ;) The kernel prefers using the environment MAKEFLAGS=-j# instead. Safer apparently. Also works with things like make-kpkg of course. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:52:45 2010 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:52:45 -0400 Subject: Best place to buy 120 USB sticks? In-Reply-To: <201005121650.33603.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512203235.GA17443@yam.witteman.ca> <201005121650.33603.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <201005121652.46002.dbmacg@look.ca> Also http://www.usbsmartstor.com/products/miniature-usb.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:57:25 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 16:57:25 -0400 Subject: Best place to buy 120 USB sticks? In-Reply-To: <20100512203235.GA17443-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512203235.GA17443@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100512205725.GA17988@yam.witteman.ca> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:32:35PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 03:00:13PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >>I need to buy 120 USB sticks (don't need to be bigger than 1GB) to give to >>conference attendees in place of a massive kit of paper. >> >>Any suggestions on the best places in Toronto in which to get a bulk deal? > > >I just spoke to the purchaser at the U of T bookstore, and they quoted $11 >for 120 2Gb Verbatim sticks. They were going to follow up with their >vendor to see if they can do better. > >I would imagine that Canada Computers does better volumes, and something >might be arranged through them, but I don't know them, so I cannot >confirm. Update: They can do $9.49 for 120. Near as I can tell, there are no deeply discounted USB sticks of any quality to be had. If you discover otherwise, please let me know too. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 21:02:16 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 17:02:16 -0400 Subject: Best place to buy 120 USB sticks? In-Reply-To: <20100512203235.GA17443-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512203235.GA17443@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 4:32 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 03:00:13PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >>I need to buy 120 USB sticks (don't need to be bigger than 1GB) to give to >>conference attendees in place of a massive kit of paper. >> >>Any suggestions on the best places in Toronto in which to get a bulk deal? > > > I just spoke to the purchaser at the U of T bookstore, and they quoted $11 > for 120 2Gb Verbatim sticks. ?They were going to follow up with their > vendor to see if they can do better. > > I would imagine that Canada Computers does better volumes, and something > might be arranged through them, but I don't know them, so I cannot > confirm. It could even be worth looking at wholesaler types. Here's an option that's a little cheaper still, albeit with fairly substantial shipping times, as they ship from Hong Kong. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10603 There are companies that do labelled USB sticks; you'd pay something of a premium for that, unfortunately. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 21:26:46 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 17:26:46 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <20100512202505.GZ17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <4BEA92CD.7010708@rogers.com> <20100512175511.GW17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB09FF.60200@rogers.com> <20100512202505.GZ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BEB1D16.5000808@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > With hubs, the maximum in a chain I believe was 5. So from one client to > another at most 5 hubs could be in between, with whatever cable length > in between each device depending on the cable technology (so 200m for > 10base2, 100m for 10baseT/100baseTX, 500m for 10base5). To go further > requires a switch or router, not a hub. > There's the 5-4-3 rule. Five segments, 4 repeaters (or hubs) and max 3 segments can be populated with computers or other devices. A bridge, like a switch, creates a new collision domain. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 22:11:24 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 18:11:24 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEB1D16.5000808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <4BEA92CD.7010708@rogers.com> <20100512175511.GW17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB09FF.60200@rogers.com> <20100512202505.GZ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB1D16.5000808@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100512221124.GB17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 05:26:46PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > There's the 5-4-3 rule. Five segments, 4 repeaters (or hubs) and max 3 > segments can be populated with computers or other devices. A bridge, > like a switch, creates a new collision domain. Yeah that's it. Max 4 hubs. I didn't remember the 3 part, although given I never had more than 2 hubs I didn't have a problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 19:11:29 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 15:11:29 -0400 Subject: Best place to buy 120 USB sticks? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3ecad39b44bff36b1988d780ca0e8f28.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> It's not Toronto, but I received this yesterday. Our experiences buying overseas have been quite positive..so far ;). Peter ---------------------------------------------------- (HK)SamTow Group is USB memory product'factory in china,doing OEM business to customers for many years. Today's prices are getting down as below: USB Flash Drive: 512MB:US$5.25 1GB:US$5.75 2GB:US$6.15 4GB:US$7.95 8GB:US$16.75 16GB:US$33.25 32GB:US$65.50 We provide OEM usb flash drive/sd card/cf card/tf card for customer,print logo by any ways of screen/engrave/glue. If you want to get picture of logo sample to check,pls contact. Also other products'offer,like:laptop??MP3??Mobile-phone??Gps??LCD etc,pls contact me to get catalogue. Jason MSN:samtow_sales-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------- > I need to buy 120 USB sticks (don't need to be bigger than 1GB) to give to > conference attendees in place of a massive kit of paper. > > Any suggestions on the best places in Toronto in which to get a bulk deal? > > -- > - Evan > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 03:33:37 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 23:33:37 -0400 Subject: Peppermint OS One Message-ID: Anyone heard about this yet, it appears to be a Ubuntu derivative. Here is a brief excerpt from the article about it: "I?ve covered a lot of remastered versions of Ubuntu since DLR launched. But, every once in a while, I bump into one that is particularly interesting to review. Peppermint OS One is definitely in that category. "Peppermint OS One is a web-centric Ubuntu remaster that passes up common desktop applications like OpenOffice.org in favor of web-based alternatives such as Google Docs. And it doesn?t stop with office applications either; Peppermint OS One integrates video sites like YouTube and Hulu right into the desktop experience." http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/2010/05/12/peppermint-os-one/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 03:38:13 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 23:38:13 -0400 Subject: Net Neutrality Message-ID: <058872af2de2c5b8df67a43c98e0794a.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> The fear campaign against Net Neutrality http://dailykos.com/ -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 04:37:28 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 00:37:28 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <20100512061517.GB898-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 02:15:17AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote > So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. > Will ethernet work over that? Thanks to all for the replies. I got home after work, read the replies, re-measured the length, and found that 50 feet would be sufficient. Then I walked over to the local Home Depot, and picked up a 50-foot cable, *WITH CONNECTORS*, for $20.48 plus tax. It works. In addition to electrical wiring, they also have baluns, coax cable, TV remote controls. HDMI cables, etc. And they don't charge "monstrous" prices for HDMI cables either. I've gotten into the habit of checking them first when I need computer or TV cabling. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 05:04:08 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 01:04:08 -0400 Subject: building a new kernel for ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: <4BEB0F34.2080001-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512181505.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB0F34.2080001@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20100513050408.GD3159@waltdnes.org> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:27:32PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote > For make add -j to parallelize processes and speed up the compile, e.g. > make -j $(($(grep processor /proc/cpuinfo -c) + 1)) > make -j $(awk -F "-" '{printf $2+2}' /sys/devices/system/cpu/possible) I run Gentoo, so let's just say that I've done a lot of builds over the past few years. I eventually changed to... MAKEOPTS="-j1" ...notwithstanding that the Gentoo manual says that you can *USUALLY* do OK with N equal to twice the number of cpus or cores. Every once in a while, I would run into a build that mysteriously failed at slightly different locations every time. The gurus looking at the build output would notice that a procedure went like so... step 1) build a temporary file required for step 2 step 2) do whatever step 3) delete the file created in step 1 Sometimes, "parallel execution" would result in step 3 starting before step 2 was finished... oops!!! Since the build takes place in another term, I don't care that it takes a bit longer with j1. The time saved in not banging my head against a brick wall over mysterious build failures easily makes up for that. The final binary is just as fast, which is all that a "sane Gentoo ricer" is concerned about. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 05:05:00 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 01:05:00 -0400 Subject: Net Neutrality In-Reply-To: <058872af2de2c5b8df67a43c98e0794a.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <058872af2de2c5b8df67a43c98e0794a.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:38 PM, wrote: > The fear campaign against Net Neutrality > > http://dailykos.com/ dailykos.com being a news/opinion website has stories that scroll down fairly fast due to newer items. Here is a link to the Net Neutrality story: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/5/12/865911/-The-fear-campaign-against-Net-Neutrality Colin McGregor > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 12:34:38 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 08:34:38 -0400 Subject: headless vm host Message-ID: I'd like to setup a vm server to host a number of different vm's. This server will be in a colo, I'd prefer to run everything headless. VirtualBox can do this. KVM may be able to do it, but there are some indications that it won't. Looking for advice. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 13:27:22 2010 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:27:22 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What indications have you seen that KVM would have a problem with this? ?virt-manager has a cli that can be used for pretty much anything you'd want to do in terms of setting up and running your virtual machines. Example: at my workplace we have a machine sitting in the server room which only runs virtual machines. ?Each team member can log in over ssh. ?Whomever set up the machine made wrapper scripts (which basically call the various virt-xxxx commands) to make the common tasks of managing of our VM's even easier. ?If we need a gui on a VM, we use vnc. Note: I am only a user on this system, I would not be the "expert" to ask for how to set something similar up. cheers, jon On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'd like to setup a vm server to host a number of different vm's. This > server will be in a colo, I'd prefer to run everything headless. > VirtualBox can do this. KVM may be able to do it, but there are some > indications that it won't. > > Looking for advice. > > Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 13:40:07 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:40:07 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BEC0137.1040505@utoronto.ca> On 05/13/2010 09:27 AM, Jon VanAlten wrote: > What indications have you seen that KVM would have a problem with > this? virt-manager has a cli that can be used for pretty much > anything you'd want to do in terms of setting up and running your > virtual machines. > > Example: at my workplace we have a machine sitting in the server room > which only runs virtual machines. Each team member can log in over > ssh. Whomever set up the machine made wrapper scripts (which > basically call the various virt-xxxx commands) to make the common > tasks of managing of our VM's even easier. If we need a gui on a VM, > we use vnc. > > Note: I am only a user on this system, I would not be the "expert" to > ask for how to set something similar up. virt-manager is what you're after for a GUI. It works with remote KVM or XEN hosts. Take a look here: http://virt-manager.et.redhat.com/screenshots.html Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 13:48:32 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:48:32 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: <4BEC0137.1040505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BEC0137.1040505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 05/13/2010 09:27 AM, Jon VanAlten wrote: >> What indications have you seen that KVM would have a problem with >> this? ?virt-manager has a cli that can be used for pretty much >> anything you'd want to do in terms of setting up and running your >> virtual machines. >> >> Example: at my workplace we have a machine sitting in the server room >> which only runs virtual machines. ?Each team member can log in over >> ssh. ?Whomever set up the machine made wrapper scripts (which >> basically call the various virt-xxxx commands) to make the common >> tasks of managing of our VM's even easier. ?If we need a gui on a VM, >> we use vnc. >> >> Note: I am only a user on this system, I would not be the "expert" to >> ask for how to set something similar up. > > virt-manager is what you're after for a GUI. It works with remote KVM or > XEN hosts. Take a look here: > http://virt-manager.et.redhat.com/screenshots.html > > Jamon I did manage to get kvm working headless but when I went to install centos 5.4 64bit it hung. It appears that CentOS is using a fairly old version of kvm and even newer versions seem to have problems with 64 bit guests. I'm back to looking at virtual box. Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 13:56:38 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:56:38 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: References: <4BEC0137.1040505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4BEC0516.4040101@utoronto.ca> On 05/13/2010 09:48 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I did manage to get kvm working headless but when I went to install > centos 5.4 64bit it hung. > > It appears that CentOS is using a fairly old version of kvm and even > newer versions seem to have problems with 64 bit guests. > > I'm back to looking at virtual box. Is Xen not an option? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 14:01:52 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:01:52 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: <4BEC0516.4040101-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BEC0137.1040505@utoronto.ca> <4BEC0516.4040101@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 05/13/2010 09:48 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: >> I did manage to get kvm working headless but when I went to install >> centos 5.4 64bit it hung. >> >> It appears that CentOS is using a fairly old version of kvm and even >> newer versions seem to have problems with 64 bit guests. >> >> I'm back to looking at virtual box. > > Is Xen not an option? > Yeah, but I have some familiarity with vbox so I will go with it. Dave > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 14:23:43 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:23:43 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100513142343.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 08:34:38AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'd like to setup a vm server to host a number of different vm's. This > server will be in a colo, I'd prefer to run everything headless. > VirtualBox can do this. KVM may be able to do it, but there are some > indications that it won't. > > Looking for advice. Well kvm is entirely commandline based, at least if you use vnc or serial console as the interface to the machine. The VNC method works very well for me. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 14:44:43 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:44:43 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: References: <4BEC0137.1040505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20100513144443.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 09:48:32AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > I did manage to get kvm working headless but when I went to install > centos 5.4 64bit it hung. > > It appears that CentOS is using a fairly old version of kvm and even > newer versions seem to have problems with 64 bit guests. > > I'm back to looking at virtual box. Hmm, I thought I had run a 64bit OS as a guest on kvm. Of course I am running 0.12.3 with 2.6.32 kernel, so it is quite new. If the Centos's netinstall wasn't so flacky (having recently installed the 32bit version under kvm) I would try it out, but it is way too much effort to get going. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 14:47:51 2010 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 14:47:51 +0000 Subject: headless vm host Message-ID: <386013403-1273762072-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-219010914-@bda710.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> We run several virtual hosts using KVM without a display configured. One thing that might be handy is a virtual serial terminal setup in case the machine boots up and stops waiting for a manual fsck to be run. You may also be able to trigger a SYSRQ command in case the guest OS crashes from within a SOL session. ------Original Message------ From: Dave Cramer Sender: owner-tlug at ss.org To: tlug at ss.org ReplyTo: tlug at ss.org Subject: [TLUG]: headless vm host Sent: May 13, 2010 8:34 AM I'd like to setup a vm server to host a number of different vm's. This server will be in a colo, I'd prefer to run everything headless. VirtualBox can do this. KVM may be able to do it, but there are some indications that it won't. Looking for advice. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 14:49:57 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:49:57 -0400 Subject: building a new kernel for ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: <20100513050408.GD3159-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512181505.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB0F34.2080001@utoronto.ca> <20100513050408.GD3159@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100513144957.GE17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 01:04:08AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I run Gentoo, so let's just say that I've done a lot of builds over > the past few years. I eventually changed to... > > MAKEOPTS="-j1" > > ...notwithstanding that the Gentoo manual says that you can *USUALLY* do > OK with N equal to twice the number of cpus or cores. Every once in a > while, I would run into a build that mysteriously failed at slightly > different locations every time. The gurus looking at the build output > would notice that a procedure went like so... > step 1) build a temporary file required for step 2 > step 2) do whatever > step 3) delete the file created in step 1 > > Sometimes, "parallel execution" would result in step 3 starting before > step 2 was finished... oops!!! Since the build takes place in another > term, I don't care that it takes a bit longer with j1. The time saved > in not banging my head against a brick wall over mysterious build > failures easily makes up for that. The final binary is just as fast, > which is all that a "sane Gentoo ricer" is concerned about. Some makefiles are crap. That's life. Proper makefiles should work with parallel builds. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 14:50:43 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:50:43 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: <20100513142343.GC17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100513142343.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 08:34:38AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> I'd like to setup a vm server to host a number of different vm's. This >> server will be in a colo, I'd prefer to run everything headless. >> VirtualBox can do this. KVM may be able to do it, but there are some >> indications that it won't. >> >> Looking for advice. > > Well kvm is entirely commandline based, at least if you use vnc or serial > console as the interface to the machine. ?The VNC method works very well > for me. > If it would have booted 64bit centos I'd be happy VirtualBox had no such problems Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:02:59 2010 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:02:59 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BEC14A3.6000104@tmis.ca> VBox cli I found cumbersome. Xen is for linux vm's only i believe. I have not used KVM I have used vmware ESXI. I like vmware ESXI since it works very well at the colo/datacenter Does all the linux distros and windows and many other os's as well. Plus the VIClient Virtual Infrastructure client is very easy to use. I found vmware esxi the fastest and easiest to setup. And once setup, very quick+easy to install and admin new vm's Just make sure 1) all your hardware supports VMWare ESXI 2) you have lots of DDR2 (cheaper than DDR1) 3) lots of diskspace Dave Cramer wrote: > I'd like to setup a vm server to host a number of different vm's. This > server will be in a colo, I'd prefer to run everything headless. > VirtualBox can do this. KVM may be able to do it, but there are some > indications that it won't. > > Looking for advice. > > Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:11:43 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:11:43 -0400 Subject: Net Neutrality In-Reply-To: <058872af2de2c5b8df67a43c98e0794a.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <058872af2de2c5b8df67a43c98e0794a.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4BEC16AF.8020209@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > The fear campaign against Net Neutrality > > http://dailykos.com/ > > I've often said ISPs should be considered common carriers, which means they won't be allowed to tamper with internet use. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:13:26 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:13:26 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <20100513043728.GC3159-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4BEC1716.5040900@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 02:15:17AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote > > >> So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. >> Will ethernet work over that? >> > Thanks to all for the replies. I got home after work, read the > replies, re-measured the length, and found that 50 feet would be > sufficient. Then I walked over to the local Home Depot, and picked up a > 50-foot cable, *WITH CONNECTORS*, for $20.48 plus tax. It works. > > In addition to electrical wiring, they also have baluns, coax cable, > TV remote controls. HDMI cables, etc. And they don't charge > "monstrous" prices for HDMI cables either. I've gotten into the habit > of checking them first when I need computer or TV cabling. > > As you have noticed, it's often best to buy ethernet cables, unless you have to run longer lengths or put the connectors on after installation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:14:06 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:14:06 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: <20100513144443.GD17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4BEC0137.1040505@utoronto.ca> <20100513144443.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 09:48:32AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> I did manage to get kvm working headless but when I went to install >> centos 5.4 64bit it hung. >> >> It appears that CentOS is using a fairly old version of kvm and even >> newer versions seem to have problems with 64 bit guests. >> >> I'm back to looking at virtual box. > > Hmm, I thought I had run a 64bit OS as a guest on kvm. ?Of course I am > running 0.12.3 with 2.6.32 kernel, so it is quite new. > > If the Centos's netinstall wasn't so flacky (having recently installed > the 32bit version under kvm) I would try it out, but it is way too much > effort to get going. > > -- I'm trying to avoid the bleeding edge here ... using CentOS 5.4 as the base system The biggest problem with the bleeding edge is upgrading hosts This is a subject I would like to see covered at sometime. Upgrading distros Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:18:32 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:18:32 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: References: <20100513142343.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100513151832.GF17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:50:43AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > Well kvm is entirely commandline based, at least if you use vnc or serial > > console as the interface to the machine. ?The VNC method works very well > > for me. > > > > If it would have booted 64bit centos I'd be happy > > VirtualBox had no such problems Well I just booted the Centos 5.4 x86_64 livecd under kvm and no crashes yet. Lovely desktop is currently showing. I gave it 4 CPU cores and 2GB ram and it sees all that. So no problem under this version of KVM at least. # kvm --help|head -n1 QEMU PC emulator version 0.12.3 (qemu-kvm-0.12.3), Copyright (c) 2003-2008 Fabrice Bellard # uname -a Linux rceng01 2.6.32-bpo.4-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Apr 13 00:05:30 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:23:14 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:23:14 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: <4BEC14A3.6000104-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4BEC14A3.6000104@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20100513152314.GG17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:02:59AM -0400, teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org wrote: > VBox cli I found cumbersome. > Xen is for linux vm's only i believe. > I have not used KVM You should try it. > I have used vmware ESXI. > I like vmware ESXI since it works very well at the colo/datacenter > Does all the linux distros and windows and many other os's as well. > Plus the VIClient Virtual Infrastructure client is very easy to use. Well I run win2k3 server, xp, 2k, bsd, and various other things under kvm. No problems so far. > I found vmware esxi the fastest and easiest to setup. > And once setup, very quick+easy to install and admin new vm's Well kvm is pretty simple to setup, and almost certainly will outperform vmware (except for the graphics, which I think a still being worked on). > Just make sure > > 1) all your hardware supports VMWare ESXI > 2) you have lots of DDR2 (cheaper than DDR1) These days with have kernel shared memory to help too, at least if you actually run linux on the hardware. > 3) lots of diskspace Personally I would much rather deal with kvm than vmware. I am fed up with VMware's total lack of service and complete disregard for the wishes of paying customers. I know I have payed my last money to vmware. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:24:15 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:24:15 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100512175327.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB09A1.2090408@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BEC199F.7010806@rogers.com> Ijaaz A. Ullah wrote: > You could: > 1. cut both ends > 2. join the solid/striped wires > 3. use a 9 volt battery to test the pairs (or any circuit tester/voltmeter/etc) > 4. recrimp > > re-crimping the ends may be enough to solve your problem. Perfect - joining the solid/striped wires, that's the trick. And, after I do the test, I'll have to re-crimp - which is probably what's wrong (unless I have managed to put a nail through the cable). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:25:05 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:25:05 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: <4BEC14A3.6000104-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4BEC14A3.6000104@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4BEC19D1.6050007@utoronto.ca> On 05/13/2010 11:02 AM, teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org wrote: > VBox cli I found cumbersome. > Xen is for linux vm's only i believe. Xen supports both paravirtualized and fully-virtualized guests. Running Linux, Windows, Solaris, BSDs etc. is not a problem. So it is equally capable. > I have not used KVM > > I have used vmware ESXI. > I like vmware ESXI since it works very well at the colo/datacenter > Does all the linux distros and windows and many other os's as well. > Plus the VIClient Virtual Infrastructure client is very easy to use. > > I found vmware esxi the fastest and easiest to setup. > And once setup, very quick+easy to install and admin new vm's > > Just make sure > > 1) all your hardware supports VMWare ESXI > 2) you have lots of DDR2 (cheaper than DDR1) > 3) lots of diskspace Everything here applies equally well to Xen, or any other hypervisor. Xen is FOSS and has a great community going for it, as well as commercial backing from Citrix ;) and developers working on it for SuSE. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:25:31 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:25:31 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: References: <4BEC0137.1040505@utoronto.ca> <20100513144443.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100513152531.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:14:06AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'm trying to avoid the bleeding edge here ... using CentOS 5.4 as the > base system > > The biggest problem with the bleeding edge is upgrading hosts > > This is a subject I would like to see covered at sometime. Upgrading distros Well I am running debian stable, with only the kernel and kvm taken from the backports archive. Hardly bleeding edge. Very reliable and very effective though. Much easier to deal with than anything based on Redhat too. As far as I can tell, kvm is where most of the linux distributions are betting now, with maybe one or two still clinging to xen. No one but sun seems to care for virtual box (although for windows users it is an excellent alternative to vmware, and probably better than virtualPC). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:30:03 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:30:03 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEC1716.5040900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> <4BEC1716.5040900@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:13 AM, James Knott wrote: > As you have noticed, it's often best to buy ethernet cables, unless you have > to run longer lengths or put the connectors on after installation. I used to have a box of 10BaseT wiring kicking around, and a crimping tool. It seemed like a frugal idea at the time, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. You have to redo enough connectors (greatly worsened if there are cables you regularly manipulate) that the bit of savings just doesn't seem worthwhile, particularly when you have to invest in a crimping tool at at least $40. I see that Canada Computers sells 1000' of cable for $150, versus $30 for a 100' cable. The 100% premium must be discounted for: a) The improved reliability of having a snagless connector melted onto each end, b) The fact that the $15 price doesn't include connectors (probably $1 each???) c) Labour time in crimping cables. Doesn't seem at all worth it these days. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:33:45 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:33:45 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> <4BEC1716.5040900@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BEC1BD9.8020205@dinamis.com> On 05/13/2010 11:30 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > I see that Canada Computers sells 1000' of cable for $150, versus > $30 for a 100' cable. The 100% premium must be discounted for: a) > The improved reliability of having a snagless connector melted onto > each end, b) The fact that the $15 price doesn't include connectors > (probably $1 each???) c) Labour time in crimping cables. I just saw an email from a wholesaler in Markham where a 100' crossover cable, with snagless RJ45 connectors, was $3.99. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:57:23 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEC1BD9.8020205-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> <4BEC1716.5040900@rogers.com> <4BEC1BD9.8020205@dinamis.com> Message-ID: | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY | I just saw an email from a wholesaler in Markham where a 100' crossover cable, | with snagless RJ45 connectors, was $3.99. Nice price! Is it CAT5E or CAT6? I try not to buy anything less these days. I thought crossover cables were essentially dead: - they don't always work with modern handshaking (I've been told this but don't know what it means) - many new switches figure out which way they can interoperate with the other side. I think that this is called "automatic MDI/MDI-X configuration" or "auto sensing". - having two types of cable that look the same is confusing and leads to yet another networking problem to be debugged. Or maybe it is just me. This is just inference from an amateur. I welcome insights on this. I have a box of CAT5e, connectors, crimper, and tester, all bought from surplus stores. Cheap and nasty, but they work. But making patch cables from this is not optimal. For one thing, such cable isn't pliable. Better used for wiring a building, which I may get around to one of these decades. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 15:59:26 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [kwlug-disc]building a new kernel for ubuntu 10.04 In-Reply-To: References: <20100512181505.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2010, Kyle Spaans wrote: > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > On Wed, 12 May 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > >> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 05:09:29AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > >> > > >> > ? quick and dirty wiki page for building a new kernel for ubuntu > >> > 10.04: > >> > > >> > http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/New_kernel_on_Ubuntu_10.04 > >> > > >> > let me know if i missed anything critical. > >> > >> How about missing out the making it into a .deb using make-kpkg. > >> That seems like a major step to leave out. ?make install and make > >> module_install on the other hand should be left out of course. > >> That would also take care of update-initramfs and update-grub for > >> you, and it is trivial to uninstall and clean up later. > >> > >> Essentially your whole installation section is wrong and should be > >> replaced with a make-kpkg and dpkg -i step. > > > > ? yes, i'm actually going to update that shortly. ?i just started > > with what i knew. > > Is your article supposed to be about the distro-specific way to > build the kernel? > If not, I'd disagree with Lennart. But if so, I'll go back to the > peanut gallery. :) lennart is correct -- if ubuntu supplies a reliable packaging utility, i should use it. i'll add it to the page ASAP. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:03:34 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:03:34 -0400 Subject: headless vm host In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BEC22D6.1050300@dinamis.com> On 05/13/2010 08:34 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'd like to setup a vm server to host a number of different vm's. > This server will be in a colo, I'd prefer to run everything > headless. VirtualBox can do this. KVM may be able to do it, but there > are some indications that it won't. > > Looking for advice. We use Debian stable for the bare metal installation and run OpenVZ for virtualization. OpenVZ is very lightweight and tuneable and it's similar in concept to Solaris Zones or FreeBSD Jails. We also use Xen but that's a bit heavier. Based on what I've been reading on various mailing lists, KVM still strikes me as less mature than OpenVZ or Xen, though it is improving rapidly because it's blessed by Red Hat and others. It's also uncharted territory for us. We've been using both OpenVZ and Xen since 2005 and both have been rock-solid. Creating a new OpenVZ VPS is as simple as: vzctl create 1000 --ostemplate debian-5.0-amd64-dinamis vzctl set 1000 --ipadd NNN.NNN.NNN.NNN --save vzctl set 1000 --hostname bla.bla.com --save vzctl set 1000 --nameserver NNN.NNN.NNN.NNN --save vzctl set 1000 --diskspace 20G --save Resource limits, IP addresses, etc. can all be changed without restarting the VPS. The VPS can even be migrated from one hardware node to another while it's running. The --ostemplate can be any Linux distro. I have no idea, nor do I care, if *BSD or Windows is supported with OpenVZ. Creating and updating OS templates is very easy. With Debian and derivatives, you can manually create one with debootstrap, or download one of the precreated templates < http://wiki.openvz.org/Download/template/precreated>. With other distros, you can do a local installation and create a tarball of the entire filesystem from / and down while excluding some directories, like /proc for instance. The "debian-5.0-amd64-dinamis" template above is one that we created by taking the minimal precreated Debian template, updating it, and adding a few packages that we like to have in all VPS, and putting things we want on each VPS in /etc/skel/. If you'd like to use a web interface to do all this, you can use Proxmox VE . I looked at it and decided against it because we already have scripts to do the various steps to create containers and I didn't want to introduce a layer that is used by a small minority of OpenVZ users into the mix. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:04:50 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:04:50 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> <4BEC1716.5040900@rogers.com> <4BEC1BD9.8020205@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4BEC2322.3060906@dinamis.com> On 05/13/2010 11:57 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY > > | I just saw an email from a wholesaler in Markham where a 100' crossover cable, > | with snagless RJ45 connectors, was $3.99. > > Nice price! Is it CAT5E or CAT6? I try not to buy anything less > these days. It doesn't say. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:09:18 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Oracle's direction for Sun Message-ID: as mangled by the Globe "Larry Ellison details Sun changes " It doesn't sound as if it will make Sun more useful to us. For example, I don't see how OpenOffice would fit in this picture. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:20:08 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:20:08 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> <4BEC1716.5040900@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BEC26B8.2000303@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > You have to redo enough connectors It helps to use a decent quality crimper and also carefully examing the connector, prior to crimping, to ensure the wires are in the correct location and fully inserted into the plug. Also use the appropriate plug i.e for solid or stranded wire. There are also "universal" plugs available, but I don't know if they're as reliable as the proper ones. I have made up many cable in my time and rarely have problems with them. I also have a cable continuity tester that shows whether any wires are open or crossed. Better testers will even show which end is bad. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:21:33 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:21:33 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEC1BD9.8020205-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> <4BEC1716.5040900@rogers.com> <4BEC1BD9.8020205@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4BEC270D.5000202@rogers.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 05/13/2010 11:30 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> I see that Canada Computers sells 1000' of cable for $150, versus >> $30 for a 100' cable. The 100% premium must be discounted for: a) >> The improved reliability of having a snagless connector melted onto >> each end, b) The fact that the $15 price doesn't include connectors >> (probably $1 each???) c) Labour time in crimping cables. > > I just saw an email from a wholesaler in Markham where a 100' > crossover cable, with snagless RJ45 connectors, was $3.99. While I'm all in favour of saving money, there comes a point where the price is just too low for a decent quality product. If those are surplus items, they may be OK, but perhaps not, if cheaply made in China. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:27:15 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:27:15 -0700 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEB09A1.2090408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100512175327.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB09A1.2090408@rogers.com> Message-ID: Hmmm. I do recommend having a proper jack or box over a loose "tail." They tend to get run over, stretched, tabs broken off, etc etc Having a box in the wall is nice. You can add a longer patch if needed, replace broken patch-cables, unplug for cleaning etc etc. Much nicer IMHO On 2010-05-12 1:05 PM, "Yanni Chiu" wrote: Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 02:15:17AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > >> > >> > >> So my only option, other than "sneakernet", is 60 feet of CAT-5 cable. > >> Will ethernet wor... > I put in a 50 foot run of CAT-5 through my basement a long time ago. It worked, then I got wireless. Then the wireless hub went flaky. When I tried the cable again, I couldn't get it to work, and gave up (did without until I replaced the wireless hub). If I wanted to get the wired connection working again, where should I start. I don't have any cable debugging tools, just normal household stuff. I suspect I made bad terminal connections, or handled the wire too roughly during installation. If I were to do it over again, I'd buy a pre-made 100-ft cable, instead of connectors and boxes. -- Yanni -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:33:35 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:33:35 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEC270D.5000202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> <4BEC1716.5040900@rogers.com> <4BEC1BD9.8020205@dinamis.com> <4BEC270D.5000202@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BEC29DF.6090703@dinamis.com> On 05/13/2010 12:21 PM, James Knott wrote: > CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> On 05/13/2010 11:30 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: >>> I see that Canada Computers sells 1000' of cable for $150, versus >>> $30 for a 100' cable. The 100% premium must be discounted for: a) >>> The improved reliability of having a snagless connector melted onto >>> each end, b) The fact that the $15 price doesn't include connectors >>> (probably $1 each???) c) Labour time in crimping cables. >> >> I just saw an email from a wholesaler in Markham where a 100' >> crossover cable, with snagless RJ45 connectors, was $3.99. > While I'm all in favour of saving money, there comes a point where the > price is just too low for a decent quality product. If those are surplus > items, they may be OK, but perhaps not, if cheaply made in China. Considering that it's difficult to find computer components NOT made in China, it seems a futile exercise to care about the country of origin of cables. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:39:53 2010 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:39:53 -0400 Subject: LPI course materials In-Reply-To: <4BE809BE.3010609-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE809BE.3010609@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <4BEC2B59.5040500@gmail.com> On 10/05/10 9:27, Jose wrote: > Hi List, > > Just wondering if there is an updated book for LPI training, I got the > LPI, I've got the "LPIC I Exam Cram 2: Linux Professional Institute > Certification Exams 101 and 102", but seems outdated by today's > standarts (I think I got this one like 4 years ago or so), could you > recommend any newer book? IBM DeveloperWorks is redoing all their LPIC tutorials. http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-lpic1-v3-map/index.html Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:51:44 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:51:44 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> <4BEC1716.5040900@rogers.com> <4BEC1BD9.8020205@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20100513165144.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:57:23AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Nice price! Is it CAT5E or CAT6? I try not to buy anything less > these days. > > I thought crossover cables were essentially dead: They are. Might explain the price. > - they don't always work with modern handshaking (I've been told this > but don't know what it means) Well they often only include two pairs, and gigabit needs all four. Gigabit also doesn't need crossover ever. > - many new switches figure out which way they can interoperate with > the other side. I think that this is called "automatic MDI/MDI-X > configuration" or "auto sensing". Probably just about all do now. > - having two types of cable that look the same is confusing and leads > to yet another networking problem to be debugged. Or maybe it is > just me. Yes it does. I don't think I have any cross over cables at home anymore. > This is just inference from an amateur. I welcome insights on this. > > I have a box of CAT5e, connectors, crimper, and tester, all bought > from surplus stores. Cheap and nasty, but they work. But making > patch cables from this is not optimal. For one thing, such cable isn't > pliable. Better used for wiring a building, which I may get around to > one of these decades. Doesn't any wiring you put in the wall have to be plenum rated due to fire code? So an off the shelf pre made cable probably isn't allowed to be used inside the wall. Not quite sure how those rules work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 17:22:59 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 13:22:59 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100512175327.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB09A1.2090408@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BEC3573.80707@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hmmm. I do recommend having a proper jack or box over a loose "tail." > They tend to get run over, stretched, tabs broken off, etc etc > > Having a box in the wall is nice. You can add a longer patch if needed, > replace broken patch-cables, unplug for cleaning etc etc. Much nicer IMHO I thought the box would be better too, for much the same reasons. I installed a surface mount box. But for a single cable run (the "grand" plan was for more than one), I don't think it's worth it. And, I think making reliable connections at the box is harder than it looks. You can get much the same effect by using a two-way splitter, and attaching it to the baseboard. I only thought of this later, sadly. The one problem I see with using a patch cable is that you have to drill a bigger hole to get the connector through. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 17:53:00 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 13:53:00 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEC3573.80707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100512175327.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB09A1.2090408@rogers.com> <4BEC3573.80707@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100513175300.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 01:22:59PM -0400, Yanni Chiu wrote: > I thought the box would be better too, for much the same reasons. I > installed a surface mount box. But for a single cable run (the "grand" > plan was for more than one), I don't think it's worth it. And, I think > making reliable connections at the box is harder than it looks. > > You can get much the same effect by using a two-way splitter, and > attaching it to the baseboard. I only thought of this later, sadly. The > one problem I see with using a patch cable is that you have to drill a > bigger hole to get the connector through. Many plates simply have a jack on both sides, so the connection is really simple to do. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 18:26:46 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 14:26:46 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <20100513175300.GJ17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100512175327.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB09A1.2090408@rogers.com> <4BEC3573.80707@rogers.com> <20100513175300.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 01:22:59PM -0400, Yanni Chiu wrote: >> I thought the box would be better too, for much the same reasons. I >> installed a surface mount box. But for a single cable run (the "grand" >> plan was for more than one), I don't think it's worth it. And, I think >> making reliable connections at the box is harder than it looks. >> >> You can get much the same effect by using a two-way splitter, and >> attaching it to the baseboard. I only thought of this later, sadly. The >> one problem I see with using a patch cable is that you have to drill a >> bigger hole to get the connector through. > > Many plates simply have a jack on both sides, so the connection is really > simple to do. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > You can also look at keystones from monoprice.com (or locally) you just match the colours on the back of the keystone and clip it in (no tool needed), then plug the keystone into a plate. BTW, you can get 1000ft of cable from factory direct for $60. I've used the cable before and have had no problems. http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/category_list.php?cat=C110 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 20:59:52 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 16:59:52 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> <4BEC1716.5040900@rogers.com> <4BEC1BD9.8020205@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4BEC6848.10804@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I thought crossover cables were essentially dead: > > - they don't always work with modern handshaking (I've been told this > but don't know what it means) > They are still used. While many switches can auto detect the connection, not all can. The switch is supposed to determine whether the connected device is a computer or another switch and connect accordingly. All a crossover will do is make one look like the other. > - having two types of cable that look the same is confusing and leads > to yet another networking problem to be debugged. Or maybe it is > just me. Normally, there'd be some sort of marker or tag on the cable. I try to buy them in different colours from straight through cables. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 21:05:00 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 17:05:00 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEC29DF.6090703-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> <4BEC1716.5040900@rogers.com> <4BEC1BD9.8020205@dinamis.com> <4BEC270D.5000202@rogers.com> <4BEC29DF.6090703@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4BEC697C.9070400@rogers.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Considering that it's difficult to find computer components NOT made > in China, it seems a futile exercise to care about the country of > origin of cables. Please note I said "cheaply" made. There is a lot of absolute junk coming from China. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 21:06:56 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 17:06:56 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <20100513165144.GI17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100513043728.GC3159@waltdnes.org> <4BEC1716.5040900@rogers.com> <4BEC1BD9.8020205@dinamis.com> <20100513165144.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BEC69F0.4000002@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Doesn't any wiring you put in the wall have to be plenum rated due to > fire code? Plenum rated cable has to be used in air ducts and under raised floors or where ever air is circulated. In a wall etc. does not require it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 21:09:42 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 17:09:42 -0400 Subject: Will a 60-foot run of CAT-5 ethernet cable work? In-Reply-To: <4BEC3573.80707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100512061517.GB898@waltdnes.org> <20100512175327.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BEB09A1.2090408@rogers.com> <4BEC3573.80707@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BEC6A96.2030901@rogers.com> Yanni Chiu wrote: > I thought the box would be better too You don't even need a box for low voltage signal wires. You can get "mud rings" that clip into a hole cut in the drywall and provide the screw holes required for mounting the jacks. You can also get surface mount blocks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 12:14:56 2010 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 08:14:56 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card Message-ID: Hi folks, My current home NFS server is failing, and I'm working on replacing it with a new machine, but I'm concerned about the disk boot order on the new machine. The original NFS server has IDE drives, with the OS on the smaller, original drive (primary master) and the two data disks on the primary slave and secondary slave (it made sense to me to have the two data drives on separate channels). My motivation to change is that the secondary channel has been dead on this machine for some time. I can still get at the files, but I'd like to get things working properly again. The intended replacement is a P4 3GHz Dell machine which has a single 80G SATA drive. I was planning on buying two 500G or 1T SATA drives as the data disks (RAID 1, mirrored), and installing an IDE card for a small, inexpensive system disk. However, now I'm wondering whether the BIOS on this new machine will be flexible enough to be able to boot off the IDE disk; I'm new to SATA drive machines. Anyway, that's plan A, and my preferred solution. Plan B would be to leave the original SATA drive where it is in the new machine, use it as the system disk, and just move the original IDE data drives over to the new machine. The original NFS server is running openSolaris and the drives are using ZFS, in case anyone's curious. Thoughts? Comments? -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 13:21:19 2010 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:21:19 -0400 Subject: LPI course materials In-Reply-To: <4BEC2B59.5040500-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BE809BE.3010609@totaltravelmarketing.com> <4BEC2B59.5040500@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BED4E4F.6070903@totaltravelmarketing.com> On 5/13/2010 12:39 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > On 10/05/10 9:27, Jose wrote: >> Hi List, >> >> Just wondering if there is an updated book for LPI training, I got the >> LPI, I've got the "LPIC I Exam Cram 2: Linux Professional Institute >> Certification Exams 101 and 102", but seems outdated by today's >> standarts (I think I got this one like 4 years ago or so), could you >> recommend any newer book? > IBM DeveloperWorks is redoing all their LPIC tutorials. > > http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-lpic1-v3-map/index.html > > Ivan. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Thanks for the link, I would taking a close look to it -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 13:30:25 2010 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:30:25 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BED5071.1070303@totaltravelmarketing.com> On 5/14/2010 8:14 AM, Alex Beamish wrote: > Hi folks, > > My current home NFS server is failing, and I'm working on replacing it > with a new machine, but I'm concerned about the disk boot order on the > new machine. > > The original NFS server has IDE drives, with the OS on the smaller, > original drive (primary master) and the two data disks on the primary > slave and secondary slave (it made sense to me to have the two data > drives on separate channels). My motivation to change is that the > secondary channel has been dead on this machine for some time. I can > still get at the files, but I'd like to get things working properly > again. > > The intended replacement is a P4 3GHz Dell machine which has a single > 80G SATA drive. I was planning on buying two 500G or 1T SATA drives as > the data disks (RAID 1, mirrored), and installing an IDE card for a > small, inexpensive system disk. However, now I'm wondering whether the > BIOS on this new machine will be flexible enough to be able to boot > off the IDE disk; I'm new to SATA drive machines. Anyway, that's plan > A, and my preferred solution. > > Plan B would be to leave the original SATA drive where it is in the > new machine, use it as the system disk, and just move the original IDE > data drives over to the new machine. The original NFS server is > running openSolaris and the drives are using ZFS, in case anyone's > curious. > > Thoughts? Comments? > I had the same problem, but depending on your BIOS, you can set it up as IDE and SATA, SATA only, mine is like your option B, kind of, weird arragement for playing witht he machine, I boot (grub) from the SATA but I actually have the OS on one of the IDE drives, but mine is linux not Solaris, you could try to install grub on your SATa and configure it to boiot from your IDE drives, should work -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 14:27:18 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 10:27:18 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100514142718.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 08:14:56AM -0400, Alex Beamish wrote: > My current home NFS server is failing, and I'm working on replacing it > with a new machine, but I'm concerned about the disk boot order on the > new machine. > > The original NFS server has IDE drives, with the OS on the smaller, > original drive (primary master) and the two data disks on the primary > slave and secondary slave (it made sense to me to have the two data > drives on separate channels). My motivation to change is that the > secondary channel has been dead on this machine for some time. I can > still get at the files, but I'd like to get things working properly > again. > > The intended replacement is a P4 3GHz Dell machine which has a single > 80G SATA drive. I was planning on buying two 500G or 1T SATA drives as > the data disks (RAID 1, mirrored), and installing an IDE card for a > small, inexpensive system disk. However, now I'm wondering whether the > BIOS on this new machine will be flexible enough to be able to boot > off the IDE disk; I'm new to SATA drive machines. Anyway, that's plan > A, and my preferred solution. > > Plan B would be to leave the original SATA drive where it is in the > new machine, use it as the system disk, and just move the original IDE > data drives over to the new machine. The original NFS server is > running openSolaris and the drives are using ZFS, in case anyone's > curious. > > Thoughts? Comments? The order of drives at boot is up to the BIOS. Now once linux loads different issues occour. The only sane thing to do in linux is to use UUID (or LABEL) to refer to drives when mounting. UUID is by far preferable. Most distributions do this by default on new installs these days (at least I believe Fedora does it and I know Debian does). The advantage of UUID (or LABEL) is that it doesn't matter what drive is sda or sdc or whatever, you always refer to the right filesystem. The only tricky bit is installing the bootloader on the correct disk. udev might be able to take care of keeping the drive order consistent as well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 16:29:46 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 12:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Alex Beamish | The original NFS server is | running openSolaris and the drives are using ZFS, in case anyone's | curious. I'm not really plugged into the OpenSolaris world, but I wonder how much longer it will be supported. The few things I've heard from Oracle don't make me optimistic. If you are building a new box, perhaps FreeBSD would be a better platform. It supports ZFS. I have no idea if it understands raw OpenSolaris disks. | The intended replacement is a P4 3GHz Dell machine which has a single | 80G SATA drive. I was planning on buying two 500G or 1T SATA drives as | the data disks (RAID 1, mirrored), and installing an IDE card for a | small, inexpensive system disk. However, now I'm wondering whether the | BIOS on this new machine will be flexible enough to be able to boot | off the IDE disk; I'm new to SATA drive machines. Anyway, that's plan | A, and my preferred solution. Dell boxes can sometimes surprise you with things that they are missing. Check if there are places to mount all the drives you want. Check if there are enough SATA ports (probably). Check if there is already a PATA port (sometimes they exist for optical drives). Think about cooling. See what booting options your BIOS provides. If you plan on running the server 24/7, you might think about power consumption and heat too. The fewer spinning disks, the better. The fewer P4 processors, the better (0 is optimal). The incremental cost of a larger SATA disk may be similar to than the cost of an IDE (parallel ATA) card. Getting larger disks rather than an IDE card might reduce the bother and you should end up with a bigger NFS partition because the OS would only take a tiny fraction of the additional space. (Or you could use the same size disk and forgo a few gigs of NFS space to allow for the OS installation. But I'm greedy: you can never have too much disk space (until it comes time to back it up or fsck it).) Consider getting two 1.5T drives, using the first (modest) partition on each for the OS, unmirrored, and using the rest of each drive in RAID1. Note: I've not tried this; I'm just assuming that it can work. Why two OS partitions? 1. symmetry -- the drives will have identical partitioning. 2. I always have at least two OS partitions so I can install a new OS without blowing away the old one. Real disk space is so cheap that it isn't much of a waste (10G/$, so an OS partition costs a dollar or two). It is true that there might be contention between OS partition accesses and the RAID partition accesses. If the thing is only an NFS server, I'd expect most OS partition accesses to be satisfied from the filesystem cache so contention ought to be minimal. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 17:28:06 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 13:28:06 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100514172806.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:29:46PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Alex Beamish > > | The original NFS server is > | running openSolaris and the drives are using ZFS, in case anyone's > | curious. > > I'm not really plugged into the OpenSolaris world, but I wonder how > much longer it will be supported. The few things I've heard from > Oracle don't make me optimistic. > > If you are building a new box, perhaps FreeBSD would be a better > platform. It supports ZFS. I have no idea if it understands raw > OpenSolaris disks. > > | The intended replacement is a P4 3GHz Dell machine which has a single > | 80G SATA drive. I was planning on buying two 500G or 1T SATA drives as > | the data disks (RAID 1, mirrored), and installing an IDE card for a > | small, inexpensive system disk. However, now I'm wondering whether the > | BIOS on this new machine will be flexible enough to be able to boot > | off the IDE disk; I'm new to SATA drive machines. Anyway, that's plan > | A, and my preferred solution. > > Dell boxes can sometimes surprise you with things that they are > missing. Check if there are places to mount all the drives you want. > Check if there are enough SATA ports (probably). Check if there is > already a PATA port (sometimes they exist for optical drives). Think > about cooling. See what booting options your BIOS provides. > > If you plan on running the server 24/7, you might think about power > consumption and heat too. The fewer spinning disks, the better. The > fewer P4 processors, the better (0 is optimal). > > The incremental cost of a larger SATA disk may be similar to than the > cost of an IDE (parallel ATA) card. Getting larger disks rather than > an IDE card might reduce the bother and you should end up with a > bigger NFS partition because the OS would only take a tiny fraction of > the additional space. > > (Or you could use the same size disk and forgo a few gigs of NFS space > to allow for the OS installation. But I'm greedy: you can never have > too much disk space (until it comes time to back it up or fsck it).) > > Consider getting two 1.5T drives, using the first (modest) partition > on each for the OS, unmirrored, and using the rest of each drive in > RAID1. Note: I've not tried this; I'm just assuming that it can work. > > Why two OS partitions? > > 1. symmetry -- the drives will have identical partitioning. > > 2. I always have at least two OS partitions so I can install a new OS > without blowing away the old one. Real disk space is so cheap that > it isn't much of a waste (10G/$, so an OS partition costs a > dollar or two). > > It is true that there might be contention between OS partition > accesses and the RAID partition accesses. If the thing is only an NFS > server, I'd expect most OS partition accesses to be satisfied from the > filesystem cache so contention ought to be minimal. Why would anyone not raid everything? Do you like wasting half a day reinstalling the OS when the drive fails? Sure you didn't loose your data because it was on raid, but you lost access to your data, which is almost as bad. People who think swap and the OS don't need to be on raid when the data is are just amazingly stupid. If the machine crashses in the middle of an access, it doesn't matter that your data is on raid, you can still screw it up. You put it all on raid or you don't bother. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:05:20 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:05:20 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: <20100514172806.GL17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100514172806.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100514180520.GA7355@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 01:28:06PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Why would anyone not raid everything? Do you like wasting half a day > reinstalling the OS when the drive fails? Sure you didn't loose your > data because it was on raid, but you lost access to your data, which is > almost as bad. > > People who think swap and the OS don't need to be on raid when the data > is are just amazingly stupid. If the machine crashses in the middle of > an access, it doesn't matter that your data is on raid, you can still > screw it up. > > You put it all on raid or you don't bother. How do you put OS partition on a raid? Don't you have to use either hardware raid card or builtin chipset on motherboard? If so, how do you move your disks to another computer, if your raid card or motherboard dies? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:15:51 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 11:15:51 -0700 Subject: OT: Password sharing Message-ID: A question. How many people here share your password at home. For example with your family and/or significant-other. Do you have a private login, or do you just let them at everything or use a shared account? Either way, what are your reasons? -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:18:27 2010 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:18:27 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: <20100514180520.GA7355-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100514172806.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100514180520.GA7355@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4BED93F3.50001@totaltravelmarketing.com> On 5/14/2010 2:05 PM, William Park wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 01:28:06PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Why would anyone not raid everything? Do you like wasting half a day >> reinstalling the OS when the drive fails? Sure you didn't loose your >> data because it was on raid, but you lost access to your data, which is >> almost as bad. >> >> People who think swap and the OS don't need to be on raid when the data >> is are just amazingly stupid. If the machine crashses in the middle of >> an access, it doesn't matter that your data is on raid, you can still >> screw it up. >> >> You put it all on raid or you don't bother. > > How do you put OS partition on a raid? > > Don't you have to use either hardware raid card or builtin chipset on > motherboard? If so, how do you move your disks to another computer, if > your raid card or motherboard dies? > you can raid mirror using linux OS, check raidtools -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:18:46 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:18:46 -0400 Subject: OT: Password sharing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BED9406.1000100@alteeve.com> On 10-05-14 02:15 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > A question. How many people here share your password at home. For > example with your family and/or significant-other. Do you have a > private login, or do you just let them at everything or use a shared > account? > > Either way, what are your reasons? I share mine pretty freely. For example, my bf, a couple friends and my boss all have my main and root passwords. The biggest caveat is that I trust them. Second to that, if they need to get something from one of my systems (ie: my web or backup servers) then it's a lot less hassle to let them get it themselves. Further, if anything ever happens to me, I want to make sure anyone interest could gain access to whatever they needed. TL;DR - Yes, because I trust them. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:20:10 2010 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:20:10 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: <20100514180520.GA7355-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100514172806.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100514180520.GA7355@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4BED945A.1060207@totaltravelmarketing.com> On 5/14/2010 2:05 PM, William Park wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 01:28:06PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Why would anyone not raid everything? Do you like wasting half a day >> reinstalling the OS when the drive fails? Sure you didn't loose your >> data because it was on raid, but you lost access to your data, which is >> almost as bad. >> >> People who think swap and the OS don't need to be on raid when the data >> is are just amazingly stupid. If the machine crashses in the middle of >> an access, it doesn't matter that your data is on raid, you can still >> screw it up. >> >> You put it all on raid or you don't bother. > > How do you put OS partition on a raid? > > Don't you have to use either hardware raid card or builtin chipset on > motherboard? If so, how do you move your disks to another computer, if > your raid card or motherboard dies? > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Software-RAID-HOWTO-5.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:20:26 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 11:20:26 -0700 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: <20100514180520.GA7355-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100514172806.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100514180520.GA7355@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 11:05 AM, William Park wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 01:28:06PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Why would anyone not raid everything? ?Do you like wasting half a day >> reinstalling the OS when the drive fails? ?Sure you didn't loose your >> data because it was on raid, but you lost access to your data, which is >> almost as bad. >> >> People who think swap and the OS don't need to be on raid when the data >> is are just amazingly stupid. ?If the machine crashses in the middle of >> an access, it doesn't matter that your data is on raid, you can still >> screw it up. >> >> You put it all on raid or you don't bother. > > How do you put OS partition on a raid? > > Don't you have to use either hardware raid card or builtin chipset on > motherboard? ?If so, how do you move your disks to another computer, if > your raid card or motherboard dies? > > -- > William > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > A bunch of our machines here use software RAID in case a drive goes kablooey. We had some "issues" with LILO, but after swapping the problematic machines to GRUB it's been fine. There's not actually a lot of data on them, so the primary intent is that if one drive crashes, it can still boot from the other and not require a bunch of time to reinstall/reconfigure the OS. Backups (at least of /etc) are nice too though... corruption or dual-drive-failure can still occur, and we have had one fail followed by another within a day period, but it does save time on single-drive-failure issues. -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:26:13 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:26:13 -0400 Subject: OT: Password sharing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My password is freely shared at home as well. My wife has it, Most people who come to my house have it however its hard to remember so they probably forget it But I trust the people I let in my house, and my wife :) On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > A question. How many people here share your password at home. For > example with your family and/or significant-other. Do you have a > private login, or do you just let them at everything or use a shared > account? > > Either way, what are your reasons? > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA > > ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that > is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:32:00 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:32:00 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: <20100514180520.GA7355-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100514172806.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100514180520.GA7355@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100514183200.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 02:05:20PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 01:28:06PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Why would anyone not raid everything? Do you like wasting half a day > > reinstalling the OS when the drive fails? Sure you didn't loose your > > data because it was on raid, but you lost access to your data, which is > > almost as bad. > > > > People who think swap and the OS don't need to be on raid when the data > > is are just amazingly stupid. If the machine crashses in the middle of > > an access, it doesn't matter that your data is on raid, you can still > > screw it up. > > > > You put it all on raid or you don't bother. > > How do you put OS partition on a raid? > > Don't you have to use either hardware raid card or builtin chipset on > motherboard? If so, how do you move your disks to another computer, if > your raid card or motherboard dies? Well given I just installed one today, it is rather trivial. The debian installer certainly had no problem with it. You simply use software raid1. Grub2 can boot that just fine. When it asks where to install grub, tell it the MBR of both sda and sdb. Now either disk can be the boot drive. So in this case I set it up as: sda1 50GB + sdb1 50GB software raid1 for root (md0) sda2 200GB + sdb2 200GB software raid1 for lvm (md1) I then created a volume group and crated a logical volume for swap, /home and /data in the lvm. Grub2 got installed to sda and sdb and everything just works. Trivial really. I can put these drives in any other PC and it will still boot and still have raid. I have done it this way for close to 10 years. It has always been possible, although in the past you had to manually take care of installing the bootloader to both drives. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:33:35 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:33:35 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: <20100514172806.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100514180520.GA7355@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100514183335.GN17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 11:20:26AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > A bunch of our machines here use software RAID in case a drive goes > kablooey. We had some "issues" with LILO, but after swapping the > problematic machines to GRUB it's been fine. > > There's not actually a lot of data on them, so the primary intent is > that if one drive crashes, it can still boot from the other and not > require a bunch of time to reinstall/reconfigure the OS. Backups (at > least of /etc) are nice too though... corruption or dual-drive-failure > can still occur, and we have had one fail followed by another within a > day period, but it does save time on single-drive-failure issues. Certainly corruption can happen. raid is to protect against disk failures, not to protect against filesystem errors (after all the filesystem should be identically stored on both drives in raid1). It is no substitute for backups. It just prevents annoying downtime and reinstallation in case a disk fails. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:35:51 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:35:51 -0400 Subject: OT: Password sharing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100514183551.GO17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 11:15:51AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > A question. How many people here share your password at home. For > example with your family and/or significant-other. Do you have a > private login, or do you just let them at everything or use a shared > account? > > Either way, what are your reasons? My passwords are my passwords. My wife knows the root password to the mythtv box since we both do things on it and sometimes it does crash. I don't know her admin passwords and she doesn't know mine. Of course with physical access to a machine there really is no security, so I could bypass any admin password needs if I ever had a need to, but otherwise why would I need them. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:37:33 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 11:37:33 -0700 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: <20100514183335.GN17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100514172806.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100514180520.GA7355@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100514183335.GN17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 11:20:26AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> A bunch of our machines here use software RAID in case a drive goes >> kablooey. We had some "issues" with LILO, but after swapping the >> problematic machines to GRUB it's been fine. >> >> There's not actually a lot of data on them, so the primary intent is >> that if one drive crashes, it can still boot from the other and not >> require a bunch of time to reinstall/reconfigure the OS. Backups (at >> least of /etc) are nice too though... corruption or dual-drive-failure >> can still occur, and we have had one fail followed by another within a >> day period, but it does save time on single-drive-failure issues. > > Certainly corruption can happen. ?raid is to protect against disk > failures, not to protect against filesystem errors (after all the > filesystem should be identically stored on both drives in raid1). > It is no substitute for backups. ?It just prevents annoying downtime > and reinstallation in case a disk fails. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Yup. Oh, and performance-wise, you might want to skip the RAID for any scratch or temp space (/tmp) etc. Or if you've got RAM, mount that as a ramdisk. -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:43:29 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:43:29 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: <20100514172806.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100514180520.GA7355@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100514183335.GN17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100514184329.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 11:37:33AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Oh, and performance-wise, you might want to skip the RAID for any > scratch or temp space (/tmp) etc. Or if you've got RAM, mount that as > a ramdisk. Certainly tmpfs for /tmp is nice. Of course raid1 often reads twice as fast as a single disk (since linux software raid does interleaved reads from both disks), and you usually read more than you write, you usually gain performance. Not true of any other raid level (raid0 isn't raid so I won't even consider that one). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:54:15 2010 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:54:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Password sharing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I live alone - aside from my cat, and no I don't share my password with her either. I trust my cat to be as secretive with my password as Mr. Bush should trust his Irish setter to be secretive about the family recipe for Bush's Baked Beans. I have a guest account as well as my personal account. When I have friends over AND the computer on, I switch to the guest account. It can access the browser and games, but doesn't have anything else configured. On Friday 14 May 2010 14:15:51 you wrote: > A question. How many people here share your password at home. For > example with your family and/or significant-other. Do you have a > private login, or do you just let them at everything or use a shared > account? > > Either way, what are your reasons? > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 19:16:07 2010 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 19:16:07 +0000 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: Cluster Workshop In-Reply-To: <1273858009.16859.3.camel-ScVzN+evPNggsBAKwltoeQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1273858009.16859.3.camel@silver.ss.org> Message-ID: > Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: Cluster Workshop > From: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-announce-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 13:26:49 -0400 > > Madison Kelly is looking for interest in doing: > > Cluster Workshop - Build a 2-Node Cluster! > > -=] What: > > You or your group would come with two bare servers and leave with a > fully-functioning 2-Node cluster. > Does a cluster have any useful purpose in a home environment (ie. web; email; office suite; photo management...)? Would any of the software in a typical home be able to use a cluster? John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 19:31:22 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 15:31:22 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: Cluster Workshop In-Reply-To: References: <1273858009.16859.3.camel@silver.ss.org> Message-ID: <20100514193122.GQ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 07:16:07PM +0000, john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: Cluster Workshop > > From: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > To: tlug-announce-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 13:26:49 -0400 > > > > Madison Kelly is looking for interest in doing: > > > > Cluster Workshop - Build a 2-Node Cluster! > > > > -=] What: > > > > You or your group would come with two bare servers and leave with a > > fully-functioning 2-Node cluster. > > > Does a cluster have any useful purpose in a home environment (ie. web; > email; office suite; photo management...)? Would any of the software in a > typical home be able to use a cluster? I believe the answer is quite simply: No. At least that was what we told people on IRC in the late 90s when beowulf came out and everyone was asking how to use beowulf with their pile of 386 and 486 machines. As soon as you told them it would not speed up their web browser they tended to go away. Somehow people assumed it would magically make one fast computer. Most everything using a cluster needs to use OpenMPI or similar to pass messages around to synchronize a parallel job. Obviously most software doesn't do this. Plenty of software doesn't even use threads. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 19:55:35 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 15:55:35 -0400 Subject: OT: Password sharing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 14:15, Tyler Aviss wrote: > A question. How many people here share your password at home. For > example with your family and/or significant-other. Do you have a > private login, or do you just let them at everything or use a shared > account? > > Either way, what are your reasons? Me and Renata know a couple of passwords from each other, and this comes in quite handy when something happens. But, as Madison said, it's only because we trust each other. I wouldn't extend this to anyone else. FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 20:04:00 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 16:04:00 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: <20100514183200.GM17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100514172806.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100514180520.GA7355@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100514183200.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100514200400.GA12526@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 02:32:00PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Well given I just installed one today, it is rather trivial. The debian >installer certainly had no problem with it. > >You simply use software raid1. Grub2 can boot that just fine. When it >asks where to install grub, tell it the MBR of both sda and sdb. >Now either disk can be the boot drive. > >So in this case I set it up as: > >sda1 50GB + sdb1 50GB software raid1 for root (md0) >sda2 200GB + sdb2 200GB software raid1 for lvm (md1) > >I then created a volume group and crated a logical volume for swap, >/home and /data in the lvm. > >Grub2 got installed to sda and sdb and everything just works. > >Trivial really. > >I can put these drives in any other PC and it will still boot and still >have raid. I have done it this way for close to 10 years. It has always >been possible, although in the past you had to manually take care of >installing the bootloader to both drives. Any chance you could post this in a bit more detail as a HOW-TO? I'd love to do this on my next machine, and I daresay with a good document to work from more would do the same. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 20:09:55 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 16:09:55 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: Cluster Workshop In-Reply-To: <20100514193122.GQ17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1273858009.16859.3.camel@silver.ss.org> <20100514193122.GQ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BEDAE13.4080906@alteeve.com> On 10-05-14 03:31 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Does a cluster have any useful purpose in a home environment (ie. web; >> email; office suite; photo management...)? Would any of the software in a >> typical home be able to use a cluster? > > I believe the answer is quite simply: No. > > At least that was what we told people on IRC in the late 90s when beowulf > came out and everyone was asking how to use beowulf with their pile of > 386 and 486 machines. As soon as you told them it would not speed up > their web browser they tended to go away. Somehow people assumed it > would magically make one fast computer. > > Most everything using a cluster needs to use OpenMPI or similar to pass > messages around to synchronize a parallel job. Obviously most software > doesn't do this. Plenty of software doesn't even use threads. For "cluster = performance", Lennart is right. For high-availability, it may have use. Generally speaking though, a good backup is all a home needs, unless you're gunning for the geek factor. :P -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 20:14:28 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 16:14:28 -0400 Subject: OT: Password sharing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100514201428.GB12526@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 11:15:51AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: >A question. How many people here share your password at home. For >example with your family and/or significant-other. Do you have a >private login, or do you just let them at everything or use a shared >account? > >Either way, what are your reasons? I have a bunch of passwords for home and work that I don't share, but which are stored in an envelope with my will. My GPG password is not shared nor written down anywhere. When I am responsible for a group of machines, I keep their passwords safe, and also allow for easy transfer of responsibility if I am removed from responsibility. Certainly none of the machines are safe if someone has physical access, but both at home and at work I am the only one with the expertise to access them - so I need to allow my replacement/wife an easy way in. I don't use GPG for anything other than signing email, so no one other than me ever needs that password. This is a bit of a pain, as I do change passwords regularly, and I may never know if it is worth it, but at least I have a method. I have had to grant access to a couple of machines that I didn't have passwords for - either when someone left without transferring access, or when someone has died, and in each case the people left behind didn't know who they would have asked if I had not been able to help. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 20:16:55 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 16:16:55 -0400 Subject: OT: Password sharing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BEDAFB7.9010003@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > A question. How many people here share your password at home. For > example with your family and/or significant-other. Do you have a > private login, or do you just let them at everything or use a shared > account? > > Only my cat knows my passwords, but he doesn't use them very often. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 20:22:58 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 16:22:58 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: <20100514200400.GA12526-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100514172806.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100514180520.GA7355@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100514183200.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100514200400.GA12526@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100514202258.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 04:04:00PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 02:32:00PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >Well given I just installed one today, it is rather trivial. The debian > >installer certainly had no problem with it. > > > >You simply use software raid1. Grub2 can boot that just fine. When it > >asks where to install grub, tell it the MBR of both sda and sdb. > >Now either disk can be the boot drive. > > > >So in this case I set it up as: > > > >sda1 50GB + sdb1 50GB software raid1 for root (md0) > >sda2 200GB + sdb2 200GB software raid1 for lvm (md1) > > > >I then created a volume group and crated a logical volume for swap, > >/home and /data in the lvm. > > > >Grub2 got installed to sda and sdb and everything just works. > > > >Trivial really. > > > >I can put these drives in any other PC and it will still boot and still > >have raid. I have done it this way for close to 10 years. It has always > >been possible, although in the past you had to manually take care of > >installing the bootloader to both drives. > > Any chance you could post this in a bit more detail as a HOW-TO? I'd > love to do this on my next machine, and I daresay with a good document > to work from more would do the same. There really is no more to it. The standard Debian installer offers everything needed. Partition both disks the same, setup raid1 on the partition pairs. Use the raid1 devices to install on and install grub to the MBR of both drives. That's all the steps. The LVM bit is just convinient. Root on LVM can be done, but it makes recovering from problems and booting a lot more complicated. I don't know why fedora likes to do that by default. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 20:36:59 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 16:36:59 -0400 Subject: Distros for old old laptop Message-ID: <20100514203659.GA8036@node1.opengeometry.net> Does anyone know of Ubuntu-related distro which doesn't do "live CD"? I just want to install to harddisk, and run it from there. I tried Ubuntu and SimplyMEPIS, and both boot up as "live CD", and then you click "install" icon. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 20:39:32 2010 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 16:39:32 -0400 Subject: SNMP over OpenVPN Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I'm testing Zenoss as a management application for our environment. One thing that has me stumped is how to collect SNMP data over an OpenVPN connection. I can collect data via SNMP 1, 2, 3 over a physical network connection in our LAN (just changed an option in /etc/defaults/snmpd), however, over our machines connected to the office via OpenVPN I can't seem to get it to work. Has anyone done this? Thanks, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 20:59:20 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 16:59:20 -0400 Subject: Distros for old old laptop In-Reply-To: <20100514203659.GA8036-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100514203659.GA8036@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4BEDB9A8.9080402@alteeve.com> On 10-05-14 04:36 PM, William Park wrote: > Does anyone know of Ubuntu-related distro which doesn't do "live CD"? I > just want to install to harddisk, and run it from there. I tried Ubuntu > and SimplyMEPIS, and both boot up as "live CD", and then you click > "install" icon. > Debian? -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 21:07:24 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 17:07:24 -0400 Subject: SNMP over OpenVPN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BEDBB8C.9040601@utoronto.ca> On 05/14/2010 04:39 PM, John Miles wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I'm testing Zenoss as a management application for our environment. > One thing that has me stumped is how to collect SNMP data over an OpenVPN > connection. > I can collect data via SNMP 1, 2, 3 over a physical network connection in > our LAN (just changed an option in /etc/defaults/snmpd), however, over our > machines connected to the office via OpenVPN I can't seem to get it to work. > > Has anyone done this? Does this help? http://readlist.com/lists/mailman.vyatta.com/vyatta-users/0/865.html Sounds like you might have your SNMP daemon listening on all interfaces? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 21:10:15 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 17:10:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Password sharing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > A question. How many people here share your password at home. For > example with your family and/or significant-other. Do you have a > private login, or do you just let them at everything or use a shared > account? > > Either way, what are your reasons? Me, myself, and I, and no cat, have my passwords :-). My tendancy has been to head towards: - ssh keys used where possible, so that I normally don't care about password values - for the horde of web apps, I generate gibberish passwords that nobody could ever remember, encrypting and distributing to hosts/laptops/mobile phone so I can get at them. - Same strategy works for the passwords that are seldom used for those Unixy things The passwords aren't worth giving to anyone, in effect. I think the best presentation of the dilemmas here were presented on Seinfeld. http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheSecretCode2.htm George decides he won't give his PIN # to his girlfriend: Jerry and George are at the coffee shop. Jerry: So why didn't you tell her the code? George: No. No way. Jerry: George, you're gonna marry this woman. Most likely. George: It says very clearly, 'for your protection, do not give your secret code to anyone.' Jerry: So you're taking relationship advice from Chemical Bank now? >From a technical perspective, I think there's a FINE argument to be made in favour of George's position. If you're sharing a bank account with someone, you can both have cards controlled by your respective PINs. No need to share the PIN. Of course, on TV, trouble and hilarity ensue from this choice. Real life is usually less witty. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 21:37:32 2010 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 17:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: <20100514142718.GK17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100514142718.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The order of drives at boot is up to the BIOS. Now once linux loads > different issues occour. The only sane thing to do in linux is to > use UUID (or LABEL) to refer to drives when mounting. UUID is by far > preferable. Most distributions do this by default on new installs these > days (at least I believe Fedora does it and I know Debian does). Len, Why do you say that UUID is by far preferable (to LABEL)? -- Eric B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 21:41:44 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:41:44 -0700 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: <20100514142718.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: No accidental name collisions or name-changes. On the other hand a UUID config can't be reused on a replacement drive... On 2010-05-14 2:37 PM, "Eric Battersby" wrote: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The order of drives at boot is up to the BIOS. Now ... Len, Why do you say that UUID is by far preferable (to LABEL)? -- Eric B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 21:48:07 2010 From: rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rafael Carneiro) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 17:48:07 -0400 Subject: SNMP over OpenVPN In-Reply-To: <4BEDBB8C.9040601-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BEDBB8C.9040601@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: I really don't think there's a problem with SNMP. It sounds more like a firewall issue. First of all, can you snmpwalk the host from another host on the same network? (on debian/ubuntu, you have to edit /etc/default/snmpd to allow connections to any IPs other than localhost/127.0.0.1) If that works fine, it should just work over the VPN as well. Rafael On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 05/14/2010 04:39 PM, John Miles wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > I'm testing Zenoss as a management application for our environment. > > One thing that has me stumped is how to collect SNMP data over an OpenVPN > > connection. > > I can collect data via SNMP 1, 2, 3 over a physical network connection in > > our LAN (just changed an option in /etc/defaults/snmpd), however, over > our > > machines connected to the office via OpenVPN I can't seem to get it to > work. > > > > Has anyone done this? > > Does this help? > http://readlist.com/lists/mailman.vyatta.com/vyatta-users/0/865.html > > Sounds like you might have your SNMP daemon listening on all interfaces? > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 23:50:54 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 19:50:54 -0400 Subject: btrfs by default in Maverick? Message-ID: Anyone read this? Here is a brief excerpt: "UDS is over! And in the customary wrap-up I stood up and told the audience what the Foundations team have been discussing all week. One of the items is almost certainly going to get a little bit of publicity. "We are going to be doing the work to have btrfs as an installation option, and we have not ruled out making it the default." http://www.netsplit.com/2010/05/14/btrfs-by-default-in-maverick/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tang_mengd-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 01:24:34 2010 From: tang_mengd-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Meng Tang) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 21:24:34 -0400 Subject: btrfs by default in Maverick? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: unsubscribe _________________________________________________________________ Win a $10,000 shopping spree from Hotmail! Enter now. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9729711 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 01:40:07 2010 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 21:40:07 -0400 Subject: OT: Password sharing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100514214007.5ae8c259.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 14 May 2010 14:54:15 -0400 Gary Layng wrote: > I live alone - aside from my cat, and no I don't share my password with her > either. I trust my cat to be as secretive with my password as Mr. Bush should > trust his Irish setter to be secretive about the family recipe for Bush's > Baked Beans. Gary, Agreed. I don't let my cat have my password, either. As George Jonas points out, cats are psychopaths. We like them. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 02:00:53 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 22:00:53 -0400 Subject: btrfs by default in Maverick? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > "We are going to be doing the work to have btrfs as an installation > option, and we have not ruled out making it the default." It mayn't work out in time (there's extra Grub tooling needed), but it seems like a good thing for them to aim high. What with Oracle's mussing about with the remains of Sun, it's looking better and better that the Linux kernel folk didn't get too wrapped up with the "ZFS! ZFS! ZFS!" chanting of last year. Even if they do not succeed at getting btrfs as a "near-default" option, it's pretty sure that they'll make it an *easier* option for people to consider, and it helps get it deployable six months further down the road, which is hardly a waste of time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 21:52:48 2010 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Distros for old old laptop Message-ID: <881373.23681.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Fri, 5/14/10, Digimer wrote: From: Digimer Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Distros for old old laptop To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Received: Friday, May 14, 2010, 4:59 PM On 10-05-14 04:36 PM, William Park wrote: > Does anyone know of Ubuntu-related distro which doesn't do "live CD"?? I > just want to install to harddisk, and run it from there.? I tried Ubuntu > and SimplyMEPIS, and both boot up as "live CD", and then you click > "install" icon. > Debian? -- Digimer E-Mail:? ? ? ???linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin:? http://nodeassassin.org You can use Ubuntu alternate CD. EK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 10:19:41 2010 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 10:19:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Best place to buy 120 USB sticks? References: Message-ID: Take a look at The Source etc, they have 2GB sticks reduced to under $8 frequently. 120 pieces of them would not be a problem from what I saw at the time. I actually bought one and it's ok. Also beating the path in the College Street area might be worthwhile. In despite of rumors to the contrary, not all good deals are on the net and struggling small businesses in that area might be able to give you a good deal. 120 is close to one gross... The units from The Source are not too flamboyant or kitschy and they could be labeled if needed, using a printed wrap-around sticker, for example, I think. -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 12:34:17 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 08:34:17 -0400 Subject: best way to share user data in a computer centre? Message-ID: Hi, I've just had the pleasure of building a computer centre for and with the tenants of a social housing building in Kensington Market (everything's working but the internet -- thanks for the help Rafael!). What I have are 5 machines, sturdy but perhaps somewhat plodding by today's standards, currently all running bog-standard isntalls of Ubuntu Lucid. Currently the machines are completely independent of one another, and I had initially thought I would just maintain one admin account and one guest account on each machine; but as I watch the users work, I think more and more that they will want to be able to access their own files from any machine -- most of these folks do not have computers of their own, so it doesn't make all that much sense to ask them to save their work on a usb drive or whatever. Something I really don't want to have to do is to run ltsp in the cluster -- i've tried setting up LTSP before and at the time it seemed like there were tons of headaches. Also I want the tenants to be able to more or less administer the computer centre on their own, and I don't feel I understand ltsp well enough to teach it to them. So I'm wondering if other people use simpler solutinos for similar problems? For instance, -how horrible would it be, in terms of performance, to put /home on a networked disk? -how would i combine this with user authentication (googling around I guess OpenLDAP & NIS are the two most common solutions, can someone give me advice as to which is the simplest and easiest to maintain? I'm not looking for tons of flexibility, just something that will mostly work when I'm not around) As always I appreciate the help! matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 13:07:34 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 09:07:34 -0400 Subject: best way to share user data in a computer centre? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BEE9C96.90801@gmail.com> Matt Price wrote: > Hi, > ... > -how horrible would it be, in terms of performance, to put /home on a > networked disk? > -how would i combine this with user authentication (googling around I > guess OpenLDAP & NIS are the two most common solutions, can someone > give me advice as to which is the simplest and easiest to maintain? > I'm not looking for tons of flexibility, just something that will > mostly work when I'm not around) > > As always I appreciate the help! > matt This sounds like it can be done very old-school. Export /home as NFS on one machine, then have every other machine mount /home as an NFS share. Since the users don't have root access on any of the systems, there's no risk of them accidentally circumventing the NFS and Unix permissions. But if somebody drops a notebook on the network and impersonates one of the clients, they'd have full access to the files. 100Mbps Ethernet for the home directory should be unnnoticible for most tasks, but I wouldn't recommend it for multimedia. Youtube clips and playing MP3s will hiccup, probably, high res digital photos would be okay... but there would be lag. Disk activity on the server machine would be higher than the others. The nice part about NFS is how robust it is for applications. Even if you reboot the server, most apps will just sit and hang waiting for the filesystem to respond... when the export re-appears on the network, it will carry on like nothing happened. Hopefully they won't be rebooting boxes though :-) Note that because NFS uses UID and GID, you'll need to ensure consistency of those values in the /etc/passwd files among the machines. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 15:45:58 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 11:45:58 -0400 Subject: best way to share user data in a computer centre? In-Reply-To: <4BEE9C96.90801-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BEE9C96.90801@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BEEC1B6.5060007@utoronto.ca> On 05/15/2010 09:07 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: > Note that because NFS uses UID and GID, you'll need to ensure > consistency of those values in the /etc/passwd files among the machines. Sounds like NIS is the perfect candidate since that's what it is designed for :) Also, since the machines on the network are largely isolated from the outside by way of NAT, securing the directory shouldn't be much work at all. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 00:30:46 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 20:30:46 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [mumu-ca] Meet, 5/18/2010, 7:00 pm In-Reply-To: <1273964134.14.12018.m3-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org> References: <1273964134.14.12018.m3@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: The Mississauga Ubuntu users are meeting on Tuesday, details as follows: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Sat, May 15, 2010 at 6:55 PM Subject: [mumu-ca] Meet, 5/18/2010, 7:00 pm To: mumu-ca-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org Reminder from: ? mumu-ca Yahoo! Group Title: ? Meet Date: ? Tuesday May 18, 2010 Time: ? 7:00 pm - 10:00 pm Repeats: ? This event repeats every month on the third Tuesday. Location: ? Mulligan's Pub and Grill Street: ? 2458 Dundas Street West City State Zip: ? Mississauga -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 15:20:47 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 11:20:47 -0400 Subject: The Unix Beard. Message-ID: http://dilbert.com/fast/2010-05-16/ Side note: As I told some of you, we don't have many unix-beards in Brazil, basically because the average age of the *nix hacker in Brazil is probably 25. - FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 15:46:21 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 11:46:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The Unix Beard. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 May 2010, Fabio FZero wrote: > http://dilbert.com/fast/2010-05-16/ > > Side note: As I told some of you, we don't have many unix-beards in > Brazil, basically because the average age of the *nix hacker in Brazil > is probably 25. Beard? That's not a beard! -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 15:53:00 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 11:53:00 -0400 Subject: The Unix Beard. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Fabio FZero wrote: > http://dilbert.com/fast/2010-05-16/ > > Side note: As I told some of you, we don't have many unix-beards in > Brazil, basically because the average age of the *nix hacker in Brazil > is probably 25. > > - FZ Good cartoon, here are some more Linux / Unix related cartoons: http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/ Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 16:32:36 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 12:32:36 -0400 Subject: best way to share user data in a computer centre? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BF01E24.4090905@rogers.com> Matt Price wrote: > -how horrible would it be, in terms of performance, to put /home on a > networked disk? > -how would i combine this with user authentication (googling around I > guess OpenLDAP& NIS are the two most common solutions, can someone > give me advice as to which is the simplest and easiest to maintain? > I'm not looking for tons of flexibility, just something that will > mostly work when I'm not around) > I don't have any experience with authenticating users on multiple computers, but putting /home on a server is easy to do. Just mount an NFS share there. However, that will cover up any existing user directories, so you may want to temporarily move them. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 17:01:21 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:01:21 -0400 Subject: best way to share user data in a computer centre? In-Reply-To: <4BEE9C96.90801-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BEE9C96.90801@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: > Since the users don't have root access on any of > the systems, there's no risk of them accidentally circumventing the NFS > and Unix permissions. ?But if somebody drops a notebook on the network > and impersonates one of the clients, they'd have full access to the files. To avoid the problem of unauthorised access, Ubuntu allows you to specify that user's home directories are encrypted. You can also set up just an encrypted "Private" folder for each user. Note, though, that if the passphrase for the encrypted data is lost, no one, not even root, will be able to decode it. -- Scott A. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 17:46:06 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The Unix Beard. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 May 2010, Colin McGregor wrote: > Good cartoon, here are some more Linux / Unix related cartoons: > > http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/ I love the pics at the bottom :) It's interesting that the author postulates 1999 as the year the general public started to take note of OSS. My position is that they still haven't. Despire OSS being integral to the modern world most people have apparently never heard of it or don't have a clue about it even if they have. See my sig. It might be arguable that 1999 was around the time that business started to take more notice though. Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 18:03:16 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 14:03:16 -0400 Subject: best way to share user data in a computer centre? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wish that distributed filesystems like Coda (which later got redone as InterMezzo, then toasted by MSR) had progressed, as we might have something decent by now. Sharing options suck fairly badly. NFS seems about the most workable option. I wish I could suggest more alternatives. 9p from Plan 9 seems widely implemented, but making it work seems problematic. CFS let's you do Microsoft-centric filesystem sharing, seeming rather hateful. I'm not sure Coda still works... it was interesting. AFS is way too complex for the scenario described. I'd be keen on hearing of plausible alternatives. On May 15, 2010 8:34 AM, "Matt Price" wrote: Hi, I've just had the pleasure of building a computer centre for and with the tenants of a social housing building in Kensington Market (everything's working but the internet -- thanks for the help Rafael!). What I have are 5 machines, sturdy but perhaps somewhat plodding by today's standards, currently all running bog-standard isntalls of Ubuntu Lucid. Currently the machines are completely independent of one another, and I had initially thought I would just maintain one admin account and one guest account on each machine; but as I watch the users work, I think more and more that they will want to be able to access their own files from any machine -- most of these folks do not have computers of their own, so it doesn't make all that much sense to ask them to save their work on a usb drive or whatever. Something I really don't want to have to do is to run ltsp in the cluster -- i've tried setting up LTSP before and at the time it seemed like there were tons of headaches. Also I want the tenants to be able to more or less administer the computer centre on their own, and I don't feel I understand ltsp well enough to teach it to them. So I'm wondering if other people use simpler solutinos for similar problems? For instance, -how horrible would it be, in terms of performance, to put /home on a networked disk? -how would i combine this with user authentication (googling around I guess OpenLDAP & NIS are the two most common solutions, can someone give me advice as to which is the simplest and easiest to maintain? I'm not looking for tons of flexibility, just something that will mostly work when I'm not around) As always I appreciate the help! matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 19:11:33 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 15:11:33 -0400 Subject: The Unix Beard. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 16 May 2010, Colin McGregor wrote: > >> Good cartoon, here are some more Linux / Unix related cartoons: >> >> http://folk.uio.no/hpv/linuxtoons/ > > I love the pics at the bottom :) > > It's interesting that the author postulates 1999 as the year the general > public started to take note of OSS. ?My position is that they still haven't. > ?Despire OSS being integral to the modern world most people have apparently > never heard of it or don't have a clue about it even if they have. ?See my > sig. Something I noted on the mythgta (http://gtalug.org/wiki/MythTV) mailing list... I've been looking at the Free-To-Air (FTA) satellite stuff, this is where the broadcasters transmit TV un-encrypted via satellite (this all part of my I'm not happy with Rogers stuff...). Anyone with the right hardware (and in a location where they can see one or more of the FTA satellites) is welcome to watch what is on. In my searching I turned up an English language magazine published in Germany about FTA: http://www.tele-satellite.com/eng/ Back issues to 2006 are available as PDF files that are free to download. Interesting to see several firms who advertise in TELE-Satellite view running running Linux as a selling point to note in their ads... Not sure how many people reading the above magazine get the value of having Tux the Penguin on the front of their set-top box... But the word is getting out there, slowly, painfully slowly... Colin > It might be arguable that 1999 was around the time that business started to > take more notice though. > > Rob > > -- > Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org > IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) > Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com > Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 19:39:22 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 15:39:22 -0400 Subject: Debian York U down? Message-ID: Can't get any repo info from York U for the last hour, anyone suggest one for Toronto to use for today? -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 19:54:37 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 15:54:37 -0400 Subject: Debian York U down? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BF04D7D.8040406@utoronto.ca> On 05/16/2010 03:39 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Can't get any repo info from York U for the last hour, anyone suggest > one for Toronto to use for today? Their mirror has been throwing 403 errors for a couple days. Try mirror.iweb.ca or mirror.peer1.net Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 00:26:33 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 20:26:33 -0400 Subject: Debian York U down? In-Reply-To: <4BF04D7D.8040406-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF04D7D.8040406@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 05/16/2010 03:39 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: >> Can't get any repo info from York U for the last hour, anyone suggest >> one for Toronto to use for today? > > Their mirror has been throwing 403 errors for a couple days. Try > mirror.iweb.ca or mirror.peer1.net > Awesome, works like a charm. Thanks! -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 00:32:48 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 20:32:48 -0400 Subject: iPod Touch and Linux Message-ID: Anyone using this device with Linux, in particular with Debian? I looked at a couple of tutorials but they're aimed at Ubuntu (like seemingly everything), so some of the steps have me adding Ubuntu sources. I was looking over the release notes for Gnome 2.30 and its supposed to have good support for iPhone/Touch, just wondering how nasty are the hoops I have to jump through. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 01:04:33 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 01:04:33 +0000 Subject: iPod Touch and Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Anyone using this device with Linux, in particular with Debian? > > I looked at a couple of tutorials but they're aimed at Ubuntu (like > seemingly everything), so some of the steps have me adding Ubuntu > sources. > > I was looking over the release notes for Gnome 2.30 and its supposed > to have good support for iPhone/Touch, just wondering how nasty are > the hoops I have to jump through. If you want to do terribly much on it, you'll want it jailbroken. I found the "ifuse" installation to be somewhat flakey/non-fun. There *are* packages of reasonably late-breaking versions of the tooling in Debian/testing, so there's hope of it "all working." But iTunes has the habit of overriding things, so the following desirable scenario doesn't work out: - Sync some stuff onto iPod from Win/Mac via iTunes - Sync more stuff onto iPod from Linux via GnuPod/similar - Sync back on Win/Mac iTunes instance, and get the "union of syncs." Unfortunately, that third step doesn't work :-(. Sync again, and you can expect to watch whatever you added from the Linux side disappear, as iTunes "heals the errors" (and deems anything not done using iTunes as An Error). GnuPod isn't unfriendly in that way; it'll happily regenerate its XML file based on what files (music/video) it finds on the device. I can't speak for Amarok or the Gnome-related stuff; there *may* be some friendlier bits. I'm pretty sure you'll want to look up ifuse, tho. And don't have high expectations as to how much interaction you can have between the free tools and the extremely-not-free iTunes. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 01:21:12 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 21:21:12 -0400 Subject: iPod Touch and Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> Anyone using this device with Linux, in particular with Debian? >> >> I looked at a couple of tutorials but they're aimed at Ubuntu (like >> seemingly everything), so some of the steps have me adding Ubuntu >> sources. >> >> I was looking over the release notes for Gnome 2.30 and its supposed >> to have good support for iPhone/Touch, just wondering how nasty are >> the hoops I have to jump through. > > If you want to do terribly much on it, you'll want it jailbroken. All I want to do for now is transfer some music, and none of the recent turorials I've seen even mention having to jailbreak. > I found the "ifuse" installation to be somewhat flakey/non-fun. ?There > *are* packages of reasonably late-breaking versions of the tooling in > Debian/testing, so there's hope of it "all working." I'm on Testing/Unstable, with Gnome in Unstable, so I'm pretty sure I have the right versions of iFuse and libgpod, but there are some packages like iProxy that I can't find and only seem to come from Ubunut, but then again I don't know if i even really need iProxy. > But iTunes has the habit of overriding things, so the following > desirable scenario doesn't work out: > > ?- Sync some stuff onto iPod from Win/Mac via iTunes > ?- Sync more stuff onto iPod from Linux via GnuPod/similar > ?- Sync back on Win/Mac iTunes instance, and get the "union of syncs." Ideally I would never have to use iTunes after the initial setup. > Unfortunately, that third step doesn't work :-(. ?Sync again, and you > can expect to watch whatever you added from the Linux side disappear, > as iTunes "heals the errors" (and deems anything not done using iTunes > as An Error). > > GnuPod isn't unfriendly in that way; it'll happily regenerate its XML > file based on what files (music/video) it finds on the device. > > I can't speak for Amarok or the Gnome-related stuff; there *may* be > some friendlier bits. ?I'm pretty sure you'll want to look up ifuse, > tho. > > And don't have high expectations as to how much interaction you can > have between the free tools and the extremely-not-free iTunes. > Basically I just want it to be recognized so I can transfer music to it. The rest can be done over WiFi. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 06:03:52 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 02:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Multiple SSL Certificates Message-ID: <54b14e1f183dc2c41d513b4a16b0b401.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Hello everyone, I currently have 2 domain names running on one IP address. Is it possible to setup two SSL certificates, one for each domain? Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 10:35:36 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 06:35:36 -0400 Subject: Multiple SSL Certificates In-Reply-To: <54b14e1f183dc2c41d513b4a16b0b401.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <54b14e1f183dc2c41d513b4a16b0b401.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <20100517103536.GA10842@yam.witteman.ca> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 02:03:52AM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >Hello everyone, > >I currently have 2 domain names running on one IP address. Is it possible >to setup two SSL certificates, one for each domain? No, because of the way that SSL works (as I understand it). Here's a reference: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/ssl/ssl_faq.html#vhosts -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 12:10:33 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 08:10:33 -0400 Subject: best way to share user data in a computer centre? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1274098233.16720.12.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Disclaimer: I've only skimmed through this thread and have not read it thoroughly. Sharing /home may be problematic since the directory may contain files particular to a machine (for example, socket files for some applications). So I would not try sharing all of /home. If you want to share a subdirectory of /home, I would concur with Mr. Browne that NFS is the most obvious approach...provided you understand the problems of NFS (for example, if your NFS server machine fails, it is a single point of failure that takes out all the computers. This is one of the reasons people don't use NFS on servers.) Last I checked, Coda was still marked as "not ready for serious use". Another possibility, as your number of machines is small, is to share one or more subdirectories of /home using sshfs. I described setting that up in my article on VirtualBox (http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_october_2009.html). If the odds of the users switching between different computers on the same day is low, you might want to simply do a nightly cron file copy with rsync or unison. Ken B. On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 14:03 -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > I wish that distributed filesystems like Coda (which later got redone > as InterMezzo, then toasted by MSR) had progressed, as we might have > something decent by now. > > Sharing options suck fairly badly. NFS seems about the most workable > option. > > I wish I could suggest more alternatives. > > 9p from Plan 9 seems widely implemented, but making it work seems > problematic. > > CFS let's you do Microsoft-centric filesystem sharing, seeming rather > hateful. > > I'm not sure Coda still works... it was interesting. > > AFS is way too complex for the scenario described. > > I'd be keen on hearing of plausible alternatives. > > > On May 15, 2010 8:34 AM, "Matt Price" wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I've just had the pleasure of building a computer centre for and > > with > > the tenants of a social housing building in Kensington Market > > (everything's working but the internet -- thanks for the help > > Rafael!). What I have are 5 machines, sturdy but perhaps somewhat > > plodding by today's standards, currently all running bog-standard > > isntalls of Ubuntu Lucid. Currently the machines are completely > > independent of one another, and I had initially thought I would just > > maintain one admin account and one guest account on each machine; > > but > > as I watch the users work, I think more and more that they will want > > to be able to access their own files from any machine -- most of > > these > > folks do not have computers of their own, so it doesn't make all > > that > > much sense to ask them to save their work on a usb drive or > > whatever. > > > > Something I really don't want to have to do is to run ltsp in the > > cluster -- i've tried setting up LTSP before and at the time it > > seemed > > like there were tons of headaches. Also I want the tenants to be > > able > > to more or less administer the computer centre on their own, and I > > don't feel I understand ltsp well enough to teach it to them. So > > I'm > > wondering if other people use simpler solutinos for similar > > problems? > > For instance, > > > > -how horrible would it be, in terms of performance, to put /home on > > a > > networked disk? > > -how would i combine this with user authentication (googling around > > I > > guess OpenLDAP & NIS are the two most common solutions, can someone > > give me advice as to which is the simplest and easiest to maintain? > > I'm not looking for tons of flexibility, just something that will > > mostly work when I'm not around) > > > > As always I appreciate the help! > > matt > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 12:27:14 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 08:27:14 -0400 Subject: best way to share user data in a computer centre? In-Reply-To: <1274098233.16720.12.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1274098233.16720.12.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <1274099234.17217.0.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> By "/home" I mean, of course, "/home/someuser". KB On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 08:10 -0400, Ken Burtch wrote: > Disclaimer: I've only skimmed through this thread and have not read it > thoroughly. > > Sharing /home may be problematic since the directory may contain files > particular to a machine (for example, socket files for some > applications). So I would not try sharing all of /home. > > If you want to share a subdirectory of /home, I would concur with Mr. > Browne that NFS is the most obvious approach...provided you understand > the problems of NFS (for example, if your NFS server machine fails, it > is a single point of failure that takes out all the computers. This is > one of the reasons people don't use NFS on servers.) > > Last I checked, Coda was still marked as "not ready for serious use". > > Another possibility, as your number of machines is small, is to share > one or more subdirectories of /home using sshfs. I described setting > that up in my article on VirtualBox > (http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_october_2009.html). > > If the odds of the users switching between different computers on the > same day is low, you might want to simply do a nightly cron file copy > with rsync or unison. > > Ken B. > > On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 14:03 -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > I wish that distributed filesystems like Coda (which later got redone > > as InterMezzo, then toasted by MSR) had progressed, as we might have > > something decent by now. > > > > Sharing options suck fairly badly. NFS seems about the most workable > > option. > > > > I wish I could suggest more alternatives. > > > > 9p from Plan 9 seems widely implemented, but making it work seems > > problematic. > > > > CFS let's you do Microsoft-centric filesystem sharing, seeming rather > > hateful. > > > > I'm not sure Coda still works... it was interesting. > > > > AFS is way too complex for the scenario described. > > > > I'd be keen on hearing of plausible alternatives. > > > > > On May 15, 2010 8:34 AM, "Matt Price" wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I've just had the pleasure of building a computer centre for and > > > with > > > the tenants of a social housing building in Kensington Market > > > (everything's working but the internet -- thanks for the help > > > Rafael!). What I have are 5 machines, sturdy but perhaps somewhat > > > plodding by today's standards, currently all running bog-standard > > > isntalls of Ubuntu Lucid. Currently the machines are completely > > > independent of one another, and I had initially thought I would just > > > maintain one admin account and one guest account on each machine; > > > but > > > as I watch the users work, I think more and more that they will want > > > to be able to access their own files from any machine -- most of > > > these > > > folks do not have computers of their own, so it doesn't make all > > > that > > > much sense to ask them to save their work on a usb drive or > > > whatever. > > > > > > Something I really don't want to have to do is to run ltsp in the > > > cluster -- i've tried setting up LTSP before and at the time it > > > seemed > > > like there were tons of headaches. Also I want the tenants to be > > > able > > > to more or less administer the computer centre on their own, and I > > > don't feel I understand ltsp well enough to teach it to them. So > > > I'm > > > wondering if other people use simpler solutinos for similar > > > problems? > > > For instance, > > > > > > -how horrible would it be, in terms of performance, to put /home on > > > a > > > networked disk? > > > -how would i combine this with user authentication (googling around > > > I > > > guess OpenLDAP & NIS are the two most common solutions, can someone > > > give me advice as to which is the simplest and easiest to maintain? > > > I'm not looking for tons of flexibility, just something that will > > > mostly work when I'm not around) > > > > > > As always I appreciate the help! > > > matt > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 > "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 12:41:58 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 08:41:58 -0400 Subject: Multiple SSL Certificates In-Reply-To: <20100517103536.GA10842-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <54b14e1f183dc2c41d513b4a16b0b401.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20100517103536.GA10842@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4BF13996.6010403@utoronto.ca> On 17/05/10 06:35 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 02:03:52AM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> I currently have 2 domain names running on one IP address. Is it possible >> to setup two SSL certificates, one for each domain? > > No, because of the way that SSL works (as I understand it). Here's a > reference: > > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/ssl/ssl_faq.html#vhosts Using Server Name Indication (SNI) allows hosting multiple named ssl virtual hosts on a single IP. mod_gnutls supports SNI, and I think recent versions of mod_ssl do too. Take a look here: http://www.outoforder.cc/projects/apache/mod_gnutls/ http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/NameBasedSSLVHostsWithSNI The one caveat is that older browsers like IE6 don't support SNI. more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication#Browsers Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 13:04:23 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 09:04:23 -0400 Subject: Multiple SSL Certificates In-Reply-To: <4BF13996.6010403-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <54b14e1f183dc2c41d513b4a16b0b401.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20100517103536.GA10842@yam.witteman.ca> <4BF13996.6010403@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20100517130423.GA12223@yam.witteman.ca> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 08:41:58AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >On 17/05/10 06:35 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >>On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 02:03:52AM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >>>Hello everyone, >>> >>>I currently have 2 domain names running on one IP address. Is it possible >>>to setup two SSL certificates, one for each domain? >> >>No, because of the way that SSL works (as I understand it). Here's a >>reference: >> >>http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/ssl/ssl_faq.html#vhosts > >Using Server Name Indication (SNI) allows hosting multiple named ssl >virtual hosts on a single IP. mod_gnutls supports SNI, and I think >recent versions of mod_ssl do too. Take a look here: > >http://www.outoforder.cc/projects/apache/mod_gnutls/ >http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/NameBasedSSLVHostsWithSNI Ooo, neat, thank you. >The one caveat is that older browsers like IE6 don't support SNI. >more here: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication#Browsers Drat, IE6 is still way too prevalent. Maybe soon. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 14:35:41 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 10:35:41 -0400 Subject: OT: Wacom Tablet Message-ID: This weekend I acquired a Wacom Intuos 6x8 tablet ... without the pointing devices. It's possibly the very first model ever made. I have a low-end Graphire(?) from about a decade ago, but the Intuos doesn't sense the pointing devices from the Graphire. I was wondering if anyone has spare Intuos pointing devices they could pass on? If you have the pointing devices and a desperate need for the tablet itself, we can talk: I've barely used the Graphire in a decade of ownership so this goes more under "fun" than "necessary" for me. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 15:10:08 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 11:10:08 -0400 Subject: best way to share user data in a computer centre? In-Reply-To: <4BEEC1B6.5060007-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BEE9C96.90801@gmail.com> <4BEEC1B6.5060007@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20100517151008.GS17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 11:45:58AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 05/15/2010 09:07 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: > > Note that because NFS uses UID and GID, you'll need to ensure > > consistency of those values in the /etc/passwd files among the machines. > > Sounds like NIS is the perfect candidate since that's what it is > designed for :) Also, since the machines on the network are largely > isolated from the outside by way of NAT, securing the directory > shouldn't be much work at all. NIS is also compeltely awful. LDAP is much more robust, but also much harder to setup. NIS is just not worth it though. I would rather setup cron jobs to rsync password files around than deal with NIS ever again (which was in fact what I did the last time I had to deal with NIS problems). LDAP is the modern and supported way to do it. NIS is just a bad joke on the part of SUN (to go along with portmap and NFS). They are all awful. Unfortunately we don't seem to have any good replacements for NFS yet, but we certainly have better choices than NIS. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 15:24:57 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 11:24:57 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: <20100514142718.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100517152457.GT17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 05:37:32PM -0400, Eric Battersby wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > The order of drives at boot is up to the BIOS. Now once linux loads > > different issues occour. The only sane thing to do in linux is to > > use UUID (or LABEL) to refer to drives when mounting. UUID is by far > > preferable. Most distributions do this by default on new installs these > > days (at least I believe Fedora does it and I know Debian does). > > Len, > > Why do you say that UUID is by far preferable (to LABEL)? Because it is quite likely to have a usb drive plugged in some day with the same LABEL as one of your internal drives. With UUID this just won't happen. So LABEL collisions are likely, UUID collisions are not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 15:26:29 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 11:26:29 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: <20100514142718.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100517152629.GU17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 02:41:44PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > No accidental name collisions or name-changes. > > On the other hand a UUID config can't be reused on a replacement drive... Actually yes they can. tune2fs can set the UUID of an ext[234] filesystem. Other tools can do the same for other things. They are perfectly setable, they just happen to be automatically generated for every filesystem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 15:43:37 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 11:43:37 -0400 Subject: Best Linux Virtuallization Framework for Running Windows? Message-ID: <20100517154337.GA13365@yam.witteman.ca> Which virtual machine framework is the best one for running multiple versions of Windows on top of Linux? I've seen KVM, xen, qemu, and there may be others - does anyone have any experience running Windows on these? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 15:49:42 2010 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 11:49:42 -0400 Subject: Multiple SSL Certificates In-Reply-To: <4BF13996.6010403-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <54b14e1f183dc2c41d513b4a16b0b401.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20100517103536.GA10842@yam.witteman.ca> <4BF13996.6010403@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4BF16596.1090205@yahoo.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 17/05/10 06:35 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 02:03:52AM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> I currently have 2 domain names running on one IP address. Is it >>> possible >>> to setup two SSL certificates, one for each domain? >> >> No, because of the way that SSL works (as I understand it). Here's a >> reference: >> >> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/ssl/ssl_faq.html#vhosts > > Using Server Name Indication (SNI) allows hosting multiple named ssl > virtual hosts on a single IP. mod_gnutls supports SNI, and I think > recent versions of mod_ssl do too. Take a look here: > > http://www.outoforder.cc/projects/apache/mod_gnutls/ > http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/NameBasedSSLVHostsWithSNI > > The one caveat is that older browsers like IE6 don't support SNI. more > here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication#Browsers > There is also the "Subject Alt Name" which allows you to put multiple domain/host names into the same certificate. Not sure if that's just an older name for SNI or what but I've definitely done it with certificates through CACert. http://wiki.cacert.org/VhostTaskForce Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 15:53:04 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 11:53:04 -0400 Subject: best way to share user data in a computer centre? In-Reply-To: <20100517151008.GS17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4BEE9C96.90801@gmail.com> <4BEEC1B6.5060007@utoronto.ca> <20100517151008.GS17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BF16660.3090408@utoronto.ca> On 05/17/2010 11:10 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 11:45:58AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> On 05/15/2010 09:07 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: >>> Note that because NFS uses UID and GID, you'll need to ensure >>> consistency of those values in the /etc/passwd files among the machines. >> >> Sounds like NIS is the perfect candidate since that's what it is >> designed for :) Also, since the machines on the network are largely >> isolated from the outside by way of NAT, securing the directory >> shouldn't be much work at all. > > NIS is also compeltely awful. > > LDAP is much more robust, but also much harder to setup. NIS is just > not worth it though. I would rather setup cron jobs to rsync password > files around than deal with NIS ever again (which was in fact what I > did the last time I had to deal with NIS problems). > > LDAP is the modern and supported way to do it. NIS is just a bad joke > on the part of SUN (to go along with portmap and NFS). They are all > awful. Unfortunately we don't seem to have any good replacements for > NFS yet, but we certainly have better choices than NIS. For what Matt has described, NFS+NIS is simple, and will work. I agree that LDAP would be better, but it doesn't sound like there's much time to spend setting things up. Also, NFS works for pushing directories and data around on a home network, and on commercially supported 10GbE NAS units from major vendors. What's the issue with it? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 15:55:25 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 11:55:25 -0400 Subject: Best Linux Virtuallization Framework for Running Windows? In-Reply-To: <20100517154337.GA13365-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100517154337.GA13365@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: I only tried running windows on Virtualbox. Works pretty well. Of course it depends on what exaclty you want to do. I don't know if VBox is the best option for servers, for instance. - FZ On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:43, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Which virtual machine framework is the best one for running multiple > versions of Windows on top of Linux? > > I've seen KVM, xen, qemu, and there may be others - does anyone have any > experience running Windows on these? ?Thanks. > -- > > yours, > > William > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFL8WQpHQtmiuz+KT8RArp1AJ9AIxGjVRzP33Kgu33lOUWfEJmiewCfbCra > ZgMiAMoNm5jlPVimH01P7pI= > =0szs > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 16:01:17 2010 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 12:01:17 -0400 Subject: Multiple SSL Certificates In-Reply-To: <4BF16596.1090205-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <54b14e1f183dc2c41d513b4a16b0b401.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20100517103536.GA10842@yam.witteman.ca> <4BF13996.6010403@utoronto.ca> <4BF16596.1090205@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <4BF1684D.20702@yahoo.ca> marthter wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: >> On 17/05/10 06:35 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 02:03:52AM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >>>> Hello everyone, >>>> >>>> I currently have 2 domain names running on one IP address. Is it >>>> possible >>>> to setup two SSL certificates, one for each domain? >>> >>> No, because of the way that SSL works (as I understand it). Here's a >>> reference: >>> >>> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/ssl/ssl_faq.html#vhosts >> >> Using Server Name Indication (SNI) allows hosting multiple named ssl >> virtual hosts on a single IP. mod_gnutls supports SNI, and I think >> recent versions of mod_ssl do too. Take a look here: >> >> http://www.outoforder.cc/projects/apache/mod_gnutls/ >> http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/NameBasedSSLVHostsWithSNI >> >> The one caveat is that older browsers like IE6 don't support SNI. >> more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication#Browsers >> > There is also the "Subject Alt Name" which allows you to put multiple > domain/host names into the same certificate. Not sure if that's just > an older name for SNI or what but I've definitely done it with > certificates through CACert. > > http://wiki.cacert.org/VhostTaskForce > > Martin Before some overly literal person (none of those here right : - ) quibbles about this... This does not, strictly speaking, answer the question you asked, in that it does not give you "two SSL certificates, one for each domain". However I think it will do what you want in that it gives you one certificate that works for both domains on the same IP address. I've got one working for about 5 domains on the same IP address. Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 16:24:08 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 12:24:08 -0400 Subject: best way to share user data in a computer centre? In-Reply-To: <4BF16660.3090408-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BEE9C96.90801@gmail.com> <4BEEC1B6.5060007@utoronto.ca> <20100517151008.GS17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF16660.3090408@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20100517162408.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:53:04AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > For what Matt has described, NFS+NIS is simple, and will work. I agree > that LDAP would be better, but it doesn't sound like there's much time > to spend setting things up. I just remember the amount of trouble NIS caused on Solaris (which of all places is where it should work). What a nightmare. So unreliable. > Also, NFS works for pushing directories and data around on a home > network, and on commercially supported 10GbE NAS units from major > vendors. What's the issue with it? It uses portmap. It uses uid/gid for mapping users. It trusts the client implicitly for authentication. Need anymore problems? I still don't know of something better widely supported unfortunately. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 16:26:00 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 12:26:00 -0400 Subject: Best Linux Virtuallization Framework for Running Windows? In-Reply-To: <20100517154337.GA13365-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100517154337.GA13365@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100517162600.GW17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:43:37AM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Which virtual machine framework is the best one for running multiple > versions of Windows on top of Linux? > > I've seen KVM, xen, qemu, and there may be others - does anyone have any > experience running Windows on these? Thanks. KVM/qemu are essentially one thing these days. qemu by itself would be software emulation and probably very slow. With kvm it is the fastest option around. Windows runs perfectly fine on kvm. We have XP, 2003 and 2008 running on KVM here. It works great. No idea about xen. It always looked to ackward for me to even look at it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 16:32:37 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 12:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Best Linux Virtuallization Framework for Running Windows? In-Reply-To: <20100517162600.GW17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100517154337.GA13365@yam.witteman.ca> <20100517162600.GW17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > KVM/qemu are essentially one thing these days. qemu by itself would be > software emulation and probably very slow. With kvm it is the fastest > option around. Windows runs perfectly fine on kvm. We have XP, 2003 > and 2008 running on KVM here. It works great. QEMU is quite nice. I used to use it extensive before the KVM imtegration and am getting back in to it. It comes with a nice format conversion tool. A couple of times I've used the QEMU conversion tool to convert formats between two other emulators because their tools were inadequate. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 16:32:52 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 12:32:52 -0400 Subject: Best Linux Virtuallization Framework for Running Windows? In-Reply-To: References: <20100517154337.GA13365@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100517163252.GB13365@yam.witteman.ca> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:55:25AM -0400, Fabio FZero wrote: >I only tried running windows on Virtualbox. Works pretty well. > >Of course it depends on what exaclty you want to do. I don't know if >VBox is the best option for servers, for instance. You let Windows boxes on the Internet? Really? No, this is for multiple versions of IE testing, because having more than one version of IE on a Windows box is a pain, and having a Windows box at all just for occasional testing always seems like a waste. Good to know about Virtualbox, thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 17:12:44 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 13:12:44 -0400 Subject: Best Linux Virtuallization Framework for Running Windows? In-Reply-To: <20100517163252.GB13365-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100517154337.GA13365@yam.witteman.ca> <20100517163252.GB13365@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4BF1790C.9000402@dinamis.com> On 05/17/2010 12:32 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > No, this is for multiple versions of IE testing, because having more > than one version of IE on a Windows box is a pain, and having a Windows > box at all just for occasional testing always seems like a waste. We use MultipleIE to run IE7 and IE8 on the same newer ThinkPad running XP and a circa 2001 IBM ThinkPad running XP for IE6. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 17:30:24 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 13:30:24 -0400 Subject: Best Linux Virtuallization Framework for Running Windows? In-Reply-To: <20100517163252.GB13365-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100517154337.GA13365@yam.witteman.ca> <20100517163252.GB13365@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:32, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >>Of course it depends on what exaclty you want to do. I don't know if >>VBox is the best option for servers, for instance. > > You let Windows boxes on the Internet? ?Really? Well, *I* don't, but the world is full of masochists and crazy people. :-) - FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 17:45:53 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 13:45:53 -0400 Subject: iPod Touch and Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> Anyone using this device with Linux, in particular with Debian? >> >> I looked at a couple of tutorials but they're aimed at Ubuntu (like >> seemingly everything), so some of the steps have me adding Ubuntu >> sources. >> >> I was looking over the release notes for Gnome 2.30 and its supposed >> to have good support for iPhone/Touch, just wondering how nasty are >> the hoops I have to jump through. > > If you want to do terribly much on it, you'll want it jailbroken. > > I found the "ifuse" installation to be somewhat flakey/non-fun. ?There > *are* packages of reasonably late-breaking versions of the tooling in > Debian/testing, so there's hope of it "all working." > > But iTunes has the habit of overriding things, so the following > desirable scenario doesn't work out: > > ?- Sync some stuff onto iPod from Win/Mac via iTunes > ?- Sync more stuff onto iPod from Linux via GnuPod/similar > ?- Sync back on Win/Mac iTunes instance, and get the "union of syncs." > > Unfortunately, that third step doesn't work :-(. ?Sync again, and you > can expect to watch whatever you added from the Linux side disappear, > as iTunes "heals the errors" (and deems anything not done using iTunes > as An Error). > > GnuPod isn't unfriendly in that way; it'll happily regenerate its XML > file based on what files (music/video) it finds on the device. > > I can't speak for Amarok or the Gnome-related stuff; there *may* be > some friendlier bits. ?I'm pretty sure you'll want to look up ifuse, > tho. This seems to be the latest and greatest: libimobiledevice.org/ >From there the hardest part is building libgpod, which is pretty easy. Now if I could just find one damned working computer with iTunes, I'd be ready to go. > And don't have high expectations as to how much interaction you can > have between the free tools and the extremely-not-free iTunes. > -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 18:25:00 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 14:25:00 -0400 Subject: Setting environment variables for libraries Message-ID: Now that I'm using Debian I _try_ to do things the proper way, so right now I'm trying to set it up so that I can use some custom built libs in /usr/local. I checked in ld.so.conf and ld.so.conf.d, not sure what to mess with in there, or if I even should. I'm thinking this is one of those things I can 'set', but I"ve never done this before. Is it safe to just run something like LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib, or will I make things worse? -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 19:06:08 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 15:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: <20100517152629.GU17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100514142718.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100517152629.GU17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 02:41:44PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > No accidental name collisions or name-changes. > > > > On the other hand a UUID config can't be reused on a replacement drive... > > Actually yes they can. tune2fs can set the UUID of an ext[234] > filesystem. Other tools can do the same for other things. They are > perfectly setable, they just happen to be automatically generated for > every filesystem. If they are setable, they they have the same potential for name collisions. My own dislike stems from the fact that I have no idea what drive a particular UUID refers to. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 20:22:49 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 13:22:49 -0700 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: <20100514142718.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100517152629.GU17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 17 May 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 02:41:44PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> > No accidental name collisions or name-changes. >> > >> > On the other hand a UUID config can't be reused on a replacement drive... >> >> Actually yes they can. ?tune2fs can set the UUID of an ext[234] >> filesystem. ?Other tools can do the same for other things. ?They are >> perfectly setable, they just happen to be automatically generated for >> every filesystem. > > ? If they are setable, they they have the same potential for name > ? collisions. > > ? My own dislike stems from the fact that I have no idea what drive a > ? particular UUID refers to. > > -- > ? Chris F.A. Johnson, > ? Author: > ? Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) > ? Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Yes. I seemed to have been spreading misinformation. I had been led to believe that part of the UUID incorporated a hard-identifier/serial for a given disk, but if that is not the case then it doesn't seem much more useful than LABEL. That being said, do drive incorporate some sort of hard serial that can be read (and how to do so)? -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 20:29:04 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 13:29:04 -0700 Subject: iPod Touch and Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Thomas Milne >> wrote: >>> Anyone using this device with Linux, in particular with Debian? >>> >>> I looked at a couple of tutorials but they're aimed at Ubuntu (like >>> seemingly everything), so some of the steps have me adding Ubuntu >>> sources. >>> >>> I was looking over the release notes for Gnome 2.30 and its supposed >>> to have good support for iPhone/Touch, just wondering how nasty are >>> the hoops I have to jump through. >> >> If you want to do terribly much on it, you'll want it jailbroken. > > All I want to do for now is transfer some music, and none of the > recent turorials I've seen even mention having to jailbreak. > >> I found the "ifuse" installation to be somewhat flakey/non-fun. ?There >> *are* packages of reasonably late-breaking versions of the tooling in >> Debian/testing, so there's hope of it "all working." > > I'm on Testing/Unstable, with Gnome in Unstable, so I'm pretty sure I > have the right versions of iFuse and libgpod, but there are some > packages like iProxy that I can't find and only seem to come from > Ubunut, but then again I don't know if i even really need iProxy. > >> But iTunes has the habit of overriding things, so the following >> desirable scenario doesn't work out: >> >> ?- Sync some stuff onto iPod from Win/Mac via iTunes >> ?- Sync more stuff onto iPod from Linux via GnuPod/similar >> ?- Sync back on Win/Mac iTunes instance, and get the "union of syncs." > > Ideally I would never have to use iTunes after the initial setup. > >> Unfortunately, that third step doesn't work :-(. ?Sync again, and you >> can expect to watch whatever you added from the Linux side disappear, >> as iTunes "heals the errors" (and deems anything not done using iTunes >> as An Error). >> >> GnuPod isn't unfriendly in that way; it'll happily regenerate its XML >> file based on what files (music/video) it finds on the device. >> >> I can't speak for Amarok or the Gnome-related stuff; there *may* be >> some friendlier bits. ?I'm pretty sure you'll want to look up ifuse, >> tho. >> >> And don't have high expectations as to how much interaction you can >> have between the free tools and the extremely-not-free iTunes. >> > > Basically I just want it to be recognized so I can transfer music to > it. The rest can be done over WiFi. > > -- > TBM > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I used to use VirtualBox for some of those windows-centric tasks like syncing iTunes and such. However, I found that iTunes *really* dogged on my laptop, and assumed it didn't run well in the VM for some reason, or didn't like the USB "bridge" that VirtualBox used. Then I tried it in an actual windows machine. Multi-core CPU, 2GB of RAM, windows XP without a VM, and it STILL made the machine run like a dog. Having a working linux app for my phone would be great. I've used the FUSE methods but I I'm going to try a box with Ubuntu 10 and see if that works better since it looks like that had libimobiledevice.... -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 20:32:08 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 13:32:08 -0700 Subject: Setting environment variables for libraries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I believe you can just add a custom config to /etc/ld.so.conf.d (gee, everything seems to be going with directory-includes these days). Something like /etc/ld.so.conf.d/custom.conf, containing # Begin custom.conf /usr/local/lib # End custom conf (and then run "ldconfig" after) On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Now that I'm using Debian I _try_ to do things the proper way, so > right now I'm trying to set it up so that I can use some custom built > libs in /usr/local. > > I checked in ld.so.conf and ld.so.conf.d, not sure what to mess with > in there, or if I even should. > > I'm thinking this is one of those things I can 'set', but I"ve never > done this before. > > Is it safe to just run something like LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib, > or will I make things worse? > > -- > TBM > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?Even enemies will help each other if they are together on a boat that is in trouble. ? ? Sun Tzu -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 20:37:02 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 16:37:02 -0400 Subject: Tylersberg chipset opinion Message-ID: Pal Curious, I have been reading on the new Intel chipset - Tylersber and how it compare with AMD chipset RN50 ( Shipped with Dell 2970 servers). Unfortunately, I have not seen any document out there that mention performance difference between the two chipset. I know, its one of those very general questions, but do you guys have an opinion how the two above compare. We are evaluating if it is worth picking Dell R710 - With the Intel chipset or just pick another Dell 2970? Before R710, it was an easy pick as Dell 2950 was far inferior. R710 has QPI (Quick Path Interconnect) which bring it at par with 2970. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 20:44:32 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 16:44:32 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: <20100514142718.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100517152629.GU17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BF1AAB0.1050306@utoronto.ca> On 05/17/2010 04:22 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Yes. I seemed to have been spreading misinformation. I had been led to > believe that part of the UUID incorporated a hard-identifier/serial > for a given disk, but if that is not the case then it doesn't seem > much more useful than LABEL. > > > That being said, do drive incorporate some sort of hard serial that > can be read (and how to do so)? Take a look at /dev/disk/by-id/ for a semi-human readable name that you can use in . Not sure how persistent those are though, since I think udev generates the names. smartctl -i /dev/sdX where X is your drive will show vendor specific information about a drive like it's firmware, serial, model etc. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 20:55:45 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 16:55:45 -0400 Subject: Tylersberg chipset opinion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BF1AD51.3040105@utoronto.ca> On 05/17/2010 04:37 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Pal > > Curious, I have been reading on the new Intel chipset - Tylersber and > how it compare with AMD chipset RN50 ( Shipped with Dell 2970 > servers). Unfortunately, I have not seen any document out there that > mention performance difference between the two chipset. > > I know, its one of those very general questions, but do you guys have > an opinion how the two above compare. We are evaluating if it is worth > picking Dell R710 - With the Intel chipset or just pick another Dell > 2970? Before R710, it was an easy pick as Dell 2950 was far inferior. > R710 has QPI (Quick Path Interconnect) which bring it at par with > 2970. Depends, does your workload benefit from hyper-threading or not? If so, it might be worth the extra cost (8 cpus = 16 virtual, versus 12 cpus with the AMD). Also, how much memory per cpu do you want? Seems the triple-channel stuff is a bit trickier with pricing to get the ranks matched correctly. Finally, do you need anything more than what you currently have and know works or would more of the same be adequate? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 21:45:05 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 17:45:05 -0400 Subject: ffmpeg and Ubuntu Message-ID: Man, havin a rough couple of days here. Okay, want to convert some videos for my iPod, using ffmpeg. The Ubuntu version is crippled, of course, and for some reason Medibuntu doesn't have it. And now, thanks to some dispute about something called 'SONAME', ffmpeg built from svn no longer works. Anyone know where Ubuntu can get to non-crippled binaries? -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 21:47:38 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 17:47:38 -0400 Subject: best way to share user data in a computer centre? In-Reply-To: <4BF16660.3090408-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BEE9C96.90801@gmail.com> <4BEEC1B6.5060007@utoronto.ca> <20100517151008.GS17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF16660.3090408@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 05/17/2010 11:10 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 11:45:58AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >>> On 05/15/2010 09:07 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: >>>> Note that because NFS uses UID and GID, you'll need to ensure >>>> consistency of those values in the /etc/passwd files among the machines. >>> >>> Sounds like NIS is the perfect candidate since that's what it is >>> designed for :) Also, since the machines on the network are largely >>> isolated from the outside by way of NAT, securing the directory >>> shouldn't be much work at all. >> >> NIS is also compeltely awful. >> >> LDAP is much more robust, but also much harder to setup. ?NIS is just >> not worth it though. ?I would rather setup cron jobs to rsync password >> files around than deal with NIS ever again (which was in fact what I >> did the last time I had to deal with NIS problems). >> >> LDAP is the modern and supported way to do it. ?NIS is just a bad joke >> on the part of SUN (to go along with portmap and NFS). ?They are all >> awful. ?Unfortunately we don't seem to have any good replacements for >> NFS yet, but we certainly have better choices than NIS. > > For what Matt has described, NFS+NIS is simple, and will work. I agree > that LDAP would be better, but it doesn't sound like there's much time > to spend setting things up. the main issue is not that there are strict time limits -- though i'm behind on am illion hings right now so yes, the les time spent the better- - but that i want it to be relatively easy for non-experts to undestand and, eventually, maintain. that my be asking too much, really, even with NIS. The other option is to tap into the already-existing Active Directory that is used at this site for the staff computers -- but i'm not sure that's desirable, and they may not want us hving access anyway. Also i've never worked with that stuff and i'm not at all sure how you integrate with AD more or less seamlessly. > > Also, NFS works for pushing directories and data around on a home > network, and on commercially supported 10GbE NAS units from major > vendors. What's the issue with it? lennart's criticisms of nfs don't really impact me here, though i can see their importance. thanks gain y'all. matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 22:21:08 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:21:08 -0400 Subject: ffmpeg and Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BF1C154.9070605@rogers.com> On 10-05-17 05:45 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Man, havin a rough couple of days here. > > Okay, want to convert some videos for my iPod, using ffmpeg. The > Ubuntu version is crippled, of course, and for some reason Medibuntu > doesn't have it. And now, thanks to some dispute about something > called 'SONAME', ffmpeg built from svn no longer works. > > Anyone know where Ubuntu can get to non-crippled binaries? > > Give this a try: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=786095 If it does not work I can get my binaries to you. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 22:36:45 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:36:45 -0400 Subject: ffmpeg and Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4BF1C154.9070605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF1C154.9070605@rogers.com> Message-ID: You also may want to download hand brake its a great tool for iPod On 17 May 2010 18:23, "Stephen" wrote: On 10-05-17 05:45 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > > Man, havin a rough couple of days here. > > Okay, want... Give this a try: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=786095 If it does not work I can get my binaries to you. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 23:29:05 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 19:29:05 -0400 Subject: Setting environment variables for libraries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100517232905.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 02:25:00PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > Now that I'm using Debian I _try_ to do things the proper way, so > right now I'm trying to set it up so that I can use some custom built > libs in /usr/local. > > I checked in ld.so.conf and ld.so.conf.d, not sure what to mess with > in there, or if I even should. > > I'm thinking this is one of those things I can 'set', but I"ve never > done this before. > > Is it safe to just run something like LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib, > or will I make things worse? I thought /usr/local/lib was normally already in /etc/ld.so.conf If it isn't, adding /etc/ld.so.conf.d/local containing /usr/local/lib should be fine. Then run ldconfig. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 23:34:05 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 19:34:05 -0400 Subject: Tylersberg chipset opinion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100517233405.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 04:37:02PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Curious, I have been reading on the new Intel chipset - Tylersber and > how it compare with AMD chipset RN50 ( Shipped with Dell 2970 > servers). Unfortunately, I have not seen any document out there that > mention performance difference between the two chipset. > > I know, its one of those very general questions, but do you guys have > an opinion how the two above compare. We are evaluating if it is worth > picking Dell R710 - With the Intel chipset or just pick another Dell > 2970? Before R710, it was an easy pick as Dell 2950 was far inferior. > R710 has QPI (Quick Path Interconnect) which bring it at par with > 2970. No they are not on par. The intel has a much much better design now. QPI is much better than HT (unfortunately for AMD), and intel chipsets are certainly better than what ATI/AMD makes. Also the core i7/i5 based chips are quite a bit faster than the athlon 64/phenom/opteron design. Since the Core 2 came out (and now the Core i7), I have not bought an AMD CPU. There is no point in doing so. Prior to that, there was no point ever buying a P4 of course, so I bought AMD CPUs. The fact nvidia no longer seems interested in making chipsets for AMD doesn't help things. Now there are no good chipsets for the AMD that I am aware of. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 23:36:29 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 19:36:29 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: <20100514142718.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100517152629.GU17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100517233629.GZ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 03:06:08PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > If they are setable, they they have the same potential for name > collisions. Lots of people will LABEL something ROOT. Not a lot of people will pick the same UUID. So UUID collisions means you purposely cloned a disk UUID. LABEL collisions simply happen because they are meant to be human readable. > My own dislike stems from the fact that I have no idea what drive a > particular UUID refers to. The same one it always refers to. I access my drives by mount point, not UUID. They mount by UUID however. Just like I don't care which is sda, sdb or sdc. It's the filesystems and where they are mounted that matter. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 23:38:11 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 19:38:11 -0400 Subject: Booting order / SATA onboard / IDE card In-Reply-To: References: <20100514142718.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100517152629.GU17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100517233811.GA17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 01:22:49PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Yes. I seemed to have been spreading misinformation. I had been led to > believe that part of the UUID incorporated a hard-identifier/serial > for a given disk, but if that is not the case then it doesn't seem > much more useful than LABEL. > > > That being said, do drive incorporate some sort of hard serial that > can be read (and how to do so)? /dev/disk/by-id/ has serial number based references. /dev/disk/by-path/ has it by the bus/controller/port the device uses. You can probably guess what /dev/disk/by-label/ and /dev/disk/by-uuid/ does. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 02:55:43 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 22:55:43 -0400 Subject: Tylersberg chipset opinion In-Reply-To: <20100517233405.GY17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100517233405.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Len Sorensen > > No they are not on par. ?The intel has a much much better design now. > QPI is much better than HT (unfortunately for AMD), and intel chipsets > are certainly better than what ATI/AMD makes. ?Also the core i7/i5 based > chips are quite a bit faster than the athlon 64/phenom/opteron design. > > Since the Core 2 came out (and now the Core i7), I have not bought an > AMD CPU. ?There is no point in doing so. ?Prior to that, there was no > point ever buying a P4 of course, so I bought AMD CPUs. ?The fact nvidia > no longer seems interested in making chipsets for AMD doesn't help things. > Now there are no good chipsets for the AMD that I am aware of. Thanks, I envy you knowledge and tend to feel comfortable with your suggestion so I will recommend R710. Kind of sad though since I like AMD in general. Jamon, the current hardware perform fine and its not a replacement. Its a new database server and none of the current hardware is being decommissioned. However, being in the market, its good to evaluate the current offering as Intel stuff have changed since the last purchase William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 02:57:47 2010 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 22:57:47 -0400 Subject: [OT] Re:Best Linux Virtuallization Framework for Running Windows? In-Reply-To: References: <20100517154337.GA13365@yam.witteman.ca> <20100517163252.GB13365@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4BF2022B.1010503@the-wire.com> Fabio FZero wrote: > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:32, William O'Higgins Witteman > wrote: >>> Of course it depends on what exaclty you want to do. I don't know if >>> VBox is the best option for servers, for instance. >> You let Windows boxes on the Internet? Really? > > Well, *I* don't, but the world is full of masochists and crazy people. :-) Of course, Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 03:16:28 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 23:16:28 -0400 Subject: Cisco Study Group. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Those of you who were at diner before the last GTALug meeting might have heard the discussion that started around doing a Cisco certification study group. This was an idea that appears to have both succeeded and failed... It seems the person organizing the study group ended up with too many people interested given the space available, so ... would there be enough interest to do a second (and conceivably a third) study group? If you are interested in a Cisco certification group meeting let me know, along with which evening(s) are good for you and we will go from there. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 12:51:54 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 08:51:54 -0400 Subject: Setting environment variables for libraries In-Reply-To: <20100517232905.GX17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100517232905.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 02:25:00PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> Now that I'm using Debian I _try_ to do things the proper way, so >> right now I'm trying to set it up so that I can use some custom built >> libs in /usr/local. >> >> I checked in ld.so.conf and ld.so.conf.d, not sure what to mess with >> in there, or if I even should. >> >> I'm thinking this is one of those things I can 'set', but I"ve never >> done this before. >> >> Is it safe to just run something like LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib, >> or will I make things worse? > > I thought /usr/local/lib was normally already in /etc/ld.so.conf > > If it isn't, adding /etc/ld.so.conf.d/local containing > /usr/local/lib > > should be fine. ?Then run ldconfig. > That did it, awesome! joehill at node1:~$ ldd /usr/bin/gtkpod | grep libgpod libgpod.so.4 => /usr/local/lib/libgpod.so.4 (0xb75b9000) Thanks :-) -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 13:31:57 2010 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:31:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: The Unix Beard. References: Message-ID: Colin, group: On of the best resources for FTA satellite information is http://www.lyngsat.com/ . It has information by country and by satellite. FTA boxes running Linux are advertised (and this is a feature) because it is known that they are programmable and relatively high quality vs. non Linux boxes. In Europe boxes like Dreambox 2000, 5000 8000 etc are very popular, and both most run Linux or can be flashed with Linux. See the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreambox -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 14:08:40 2010 From: rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rafael Carneiro) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 10:08:40 -0400 Subject: Cisco Study Group. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is this for CCNA or CCNP? I would be interested in a CCNP study group. If it is CCNA, I might be able to show up a few evenings to help if there's interest. Rafael On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Those of you who were at diner before the last GTALug meeting might > have heard the discussion that started around doing a Cisco > certification study group. > > This was an idea that appears to have both succeeded and failed... It > seems the person organizing the study group ended up with too many > people interested given the space available, so ... would there be > enough interest to do a second (and conceivably a third) study group? > > If you are interested in a Cisco certification group meeting let me > know, along with which evening(s) are good for you and we will go from > there. > > > Colin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 14:16:44 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 10:16:44 -0400 Subject: Tylersberg chipset opinion In-Reply-To: References: <20100517233405.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100518141644.GB17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:55:43PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Thanks, I envy you knowledge and tend to feel comfortable with your > suggestion so I will recommend R710. Kind of sad though since I like > AMD in general. Me too. AMD has been an impressive underdog against intel. The Athlon 64 based line is still nice, but the intel line is nicer. My big issue with AMD CPUs now is that the only chipsets avaialble are the AMD (formerly ATI) ones, and certainly in the past they were absolutely awful. VIA and Nvidia chipsets weren't always perfect but they were generally quite good. Maybe the new AMD ones are better, but I haven't had any reason to consider them, given the intel CPUs are currently much better. > Jamon, the current hardware perform fine and its not a replacement. > Its a new database server and none of the current hardware is being > decommissioned. However, being in the market, its good to evaluate the > current offering as Intel stuff have changed since the last purchase My wife is very happy with her core i7 box at least, except the night a lightning strike apparently took out the power supply. It took a few days for the smell to clear. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 15:44:09 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 11:44:09 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect Message-ID: I've recently ordered something online with tigerdirect. They send a flyer which advertised a code to input. When I got to the checkout there was no place to enter the code. I decided I would fix it after. So I emailed them with the problem. They now say the item is shipped and there is nothing they can do about it. At this point I am going to refuse shipment and challenge the credit card Anyone else have poor experience with TG ? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 16:00:58 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:00:58 -0400 Subject: android g1 dev phone for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have upgraded to a nexus one. So my G1 dev phone is up for sale. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 16:04:06 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:04:06 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I've recently ordered something online with tigerdirect. They send a > flyer which advertised a code to input. When I got to the checkout > there was no place to enter the code. I decided I would fix it after. > > So I emailed them with the problem. They now say the item is shipped > and there is nothing they can do about it. > > At this point I am going to refuse shipment and challenge the credit card > > Anyone else have poor experience with TG ? At their retail outlets I've never had any issues. What I find with TigerDirect is their prices are higher than the usual College/Spadina suspects, on the other hand they carry some home theater PC products that I can not find elsewhere. So, I don't do much in the way of shopping at TigerDirect. On-line it has been a few years since I ordered anything from them, but I don't recall any issues. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 16:11:01 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:11:01 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BF2BC15.7090901@alteeve.com> On 10-05-18 11:44 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I've recently ordered something online with tigerdirect. They send a > flyer which advertised a code to input. When I got to the checkout > there was no place to enter the code. I decided I would fix it after. > > So I emailed them with the problem. They now say the item is shipped > and there is nothing they can do about it. > > At this point I am going to refuse shipment and challenge the credit card > > Anyone else have poor experience with TG ? Ya, In my one and only order from them, one hard drive carrier was physically damaged and they shipped me a USB1.1 PCI card instead of the USB2.0 I ordered. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 16:08:25 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:08:25 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:04, Colin McGregor wrote: > (...) What I find with > TigerDirect is their prices are higher than the usual College/Spadina > suspects (...) > Care to elaborate for us newcomers? :-) I really want to know where to buy good'n'cheap hardware on physical stores around Toronto! - FZ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 16:54:15 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:54:15 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:08:25PM -0400, Fabio FZero wrote: > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:04, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > (...) What I find with > > TigerDirect is their prices are higher than the usual College/Spadina > > suspects (...) > > > > Care to elaborate for us newcomers? :-) I really want to know where to buy > good'n'cheap hardware on physical stores around Toronto! Canada Computers. Simple as that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 16:57:16 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:57:16 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: <20100518165415.GC17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BF2C6EC.3040900@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:08:25PM -0400, Fabio FZero wrote: > >> Care to elaborate for us newcomers? :-) I really want to know where to buy >> good'n'cheap hardware on physical stores around Toronto! >> > > Canada Computers. Simple as that. > > In the York University area I recommend Computers & Peripherals. South side of Steeles, East of Keele 1/2 block Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 17:00:04 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:00:04 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Fabio FZero wrote: > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:04, Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> (...) What I find with >> TigerDirect is their prices are higher than the usual College/Spadina >> suspects (...) > > Care to elaborate for us newcomers? :-) I really want to know where to buy > good'n'cheap hardware on physical stores around Toronto! Sure. There is a cluster of computer shops around the intersection of College St. and Spadina Ave.. Most of the shops are on College between Spadina and Bathurst, but there are a few just north, just south and just east of College and Spadina. The shops are within 1 block north, 1 block south, 1 block east and 4 blocks west of College and Spadina. When I am shopping for commodity PC hardware, like memory, low end cases, most motherboards or CPU chips, I'll take a walk around to the various shops near College and Spadina... Comparing prices is easy. For commodity hardware I know I will end up with a better deal than Tiger Direct. On the other hand for some home theater hardware, like high end PC cases or TV tuner cards, things seem to boil down to Tiger Direct (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/) or Canada Computers (http://www.canadacomputers.com). It is worth noting that Canada Computers has put one of their retail stores at 366 College St, 4 blocks west of College and Spadina (when I am walking around College & Spadina, the Canada Computers shop is the western most that I will visit). For for a step above commodity PC hardware I will look at Tiger Direct, and Canada Computers, which I end up going with will depend on the item... Colin > - FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 17:02:19 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:02:19 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: <20100518165415.GC17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I have found Filtech to be pretty good (south/east corner of spadina and college) On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:08:25PM -0400, Fabio FZero wrote: >> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:04, Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> > (...) What I find with >> > TigerDirect is their prices are higher than the usual College/Spadina >> > suspects (...) >> > >> >> Care to elaborate for us newcomers? :-) I really want to know where to buy >> good'n'cheap hardware on physical stores around Toronto! > > Canada Computers. ?Simple as that. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 17:04:52 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:04:52 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I have found Filtech to be pretty good (south/east corner of spadina > and college) For things like of memory, Filtech, on Spadina just south of College is good. Colin. > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:08:25PM -0400, Fabio FZero wrote: >>> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:04, Colin McGregor wrote: >>> >>> > (...) What I find with >>> > TigerDirect is their prices are higher than the usual College/Spadina >>> > suspects (...) >>> > >>> >>> Care to elaborate for us newcomers? :-) I really want to know where to buy >>> good'n'cheap hardware on physical stores around Toronto! >> >> Canada Computers. ?Simple as that. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > > > > Dave Germiquet > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 17:08:20 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I ordered an IDE-to-SATA adaptor from them last week and it was fine. Of course, that's not exactly something that would be easy to screw up. Now I can plug my Blu-ray writer into my old motherboard (hurray). I know of people who use TigerDirect but I don't recall hearing of advertsing code problems. It would seem to be that refusing shipment over an advertising code is a pretty extreme response, unless you're talking hundreds of dollars. Have you considered other, less antagonistic alternatives? It's been a while since I've been down to College and Spadina. There's a bunch of discount computer stores that way that deal mainly with university students. You can get cheap prices on hard drives. It's also a good place if you're looking for rare items, like memory upgrades for old laptops, again probably due to the student clientel. Generally speaking, when buying high priced items, I like to deal with humans where I can see the merchandise and can ask questions like "when do I get my discount?" Ken B. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 18 May 2010, Dave Cramer wrote: > I've recently ordered something online with tigerdirect. They send a > flyer which advertised a code to input. When I got to the checkout > there was no place to enter the code. I decided I would fix it after. > > So I emailed them with the problem. They now say the item is shipped > and there is nothing they can do about it. > > At this point I am going to refuse shipment and challenge the credit card > > Anyone else have poor experience with TG ? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 17:14:05 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:14:05 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: <20100518165415.GC17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:08:25PM -0400, Fabio FZero wrote: >> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:04, Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> > (...) What I find with >> > TigerDirect is their prices are higher than the usual College/Spadina >> > suspects (...) >> > >> >> Care to elaborate for us newcomers? :-) I really want to know where to buy >> good'n'cheap hardware on physical stores around Toronto! > > Canada Computers. ?Simple as that. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I'm a big fan of ncix (pricematching with newegg.ca). In general the shipping costs are offset by the tax savings (NCIX is in BC). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 17:20:59 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:20:59 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know of people who use TigerDirect but I don't recall hearing of > advertsing code problems. > > It would seem to be that refusing shipment over an advertising code is a > pretty extreme response, unless you're talking hundreds of dollars. ?Have > you considered other, less antagonistic alternatives? > Yes, I have. I have sent email to their customer support. Their response was that they could do nothing about it. What would you propose ? Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 17:30:23 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 10:30:23 -0700 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The said the same thing to me after I bought my TV. Months later, I got another "thanks for your purchase" email and found that they'd "purchased" the recycle/disposal fee for me, without authorization. It was never shown in the original invoice (and for some merchants it's often rolled into the price). Talking to TD's service reps, and even a manager, was useless... nevermind that unauthorized charges to a credit card are a pretty big deal. In my case, Visa took my dispute and refunded the unauthed charge, but I no longer trust TD. For your case, if it was the price on the invoice and not a mail-in-rebate, you'll likely not get much assistance from visa... On 2010-05-18 10:21 AM, "Dave Cramer" wrote: I know of people who use TigerDirect but I don't recall hearing of > advertsing code problems. > > I... Yes, I have. I have sent email to their customer support. Their response was that they could do nothing about it. What would you propose ? Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 18:01:51 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 14:01:51 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Talking to TD's service reps, and even a manager, was useless... nevermind > that unauthorized charges to a credit card are a pretty big deal. In my > case, Visa took my dispute and refunded the unauthed charge, but I no longer > trust TD. For your case, if it was the price on the invoice and not a > mail-in-rebate, you'll likely not get much assistance from visa... Well If I never receive the item, then I should not get billed for it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 18:18:57 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 14:18:57 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100518181857.GA29735@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 01:04:52PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> I have found Filtech to be pretty good (south/east corner of spadina >> and college) > >For things like of memory, Filtech, on Spadina just south of College is good. I have had several computers assembled at Filtech, and they have all lasted well. They only offer Gigabyte and Asus motherboards (maybe MSI too) because they don't want to deal with the problems that cheap motherboards lead to. I appreciate that stance. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 18:45:37 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 14:45:37 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BF2E051.9050204@rogers.com> Ijaaz A. Ullah wrote: > I'm a big fan of ncix (pricematching with newegg.ca). In general the > shipping costs are offset by the tax savings (NCIX is in BC). > For six more weeks :) Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 18:48:52 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 11:48:52 -0700 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100518181857.GA29735@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: I've had good experience with Filtech. Good prices, decent quality On 2010-05-18 11:19 AM, "William O'Higgins Witteman" < william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 01:04:52PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Da... I have had several computers assembled at Filtech, and they have all lasted well. They only offer Gigabyte and Asus motherboards (maybe MSI too) because they don't want to deal with the problems that cheap motherboards lead to. I appreciate that stance. -- yours, William -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFL8toRHQtmiuz+KT8RAiquAJ9LqgBjMAta9mMvMRWpfMVO9ySR8gCbBXVh TJ2wIe8iKF6msTrIjaco49Q= =JwJr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 19:03:21 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Dave Cramer | | I've recently ordered something online with tigerdirect. They send a | flyer which advertised a code to input. When I got to the checkout | there was no place to enter the code. I decided I would fix it after. | | So I emailed them with the problem. They now say the item is shipped | and there is nothing they can do about it. If it were me, I'd be annoyed but accept that I did make that order. Consider phoning. I've had pleasant conversations with TD sales people. But then I wasn't asking anything threatening. I've bought a number of things from TD. Most often off the internet. Generally the reason has been an extreme sale or something that wasn't available elsewhere. Of the top of my head, in historical order: - a Sharp Zaurus PDA. Not available in Canada. TD would sell it to me anyway - Linksys wrtsl54gs wireless router - (in store) a very good price on a low-end AMD CPU, part of last fall's "Black Friday" sale - an LG netbook (that I touted on this list) - (in the US, for US delivery) a refurb high-end Gateway desktop. Their dealing has been reasonable. But I'm careful: their idea of a good price and mine usually differ and their shipping costs seem high. Their stores are, uh, interesting. Unlike any other. Sometimes things there are worth buying. I've had one interesting transaction. My most recent purchase was a netbook. Roughly a week after I ordered it, they advertised a slightly lower price. I phoned to see if they'd reduce what they had already charged me. They looked into it, found that the adversised price was a mistake and changed the ad back to the price I had payed AND refunded me the difference. I was pretty surprised. All of this was by phone, with the same agent. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 19:05:43 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:05:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Ken O. Burtch | I ordered an IDE-to-SATA adaptor from them last week and it was fine. Of | course, that's not exactly something that would be easy to screw up. Oh yes it is! There are a number of reports of crappy ones. I'd say more if I had actually sorted out the issues. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 19:09:34 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Ijaaz A. Ullah | I'm a big fan of ncix (pricematching with newegg.ca). In general the | shipping costs are offset by the tax savings (NCIX is in BC). That isn't actually legal (although you are not likely to be caught, it does happen). You are supposed to pay the PST directly to the Ontario Government in such cases. For mailorder, Bewawa.ca, a newcomer, has a lot of good deals on its front page. Delivery is fast and free in most of the GTA (pizza delivery model). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 19:11:56 2010 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:11:56 -0400 Subject: Display Dimming When I Don't Want It To Message-ID: <1274209916.1599.248.camel@jimslaptop> Hi, I recently updated to Lucid on my laptop and for some reason when I increase the brightness of my screen it just ramps down to minimum by itself again. Not sure if this has something to do with Gnome Power Manager. I made sure the settings look ok. It should only dim on low battery but this is happening when on AC power. My laptop , an Asus, has a light sensor that should set display brightness by itself. Maybe that is interfering. If so it doesn't work properly because changing the light level on the sensor doesn't seem to affect the display brightness. The icon for brightness shows I am full brightness even though I am actually at minimum brightness. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 19:19:05 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:19:05 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:09 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > For mailorder, Bewawa.ca, a newcomer, has a lot of good deals on its > front page. ?Delivery is fast and free in most of the GTA (pizza > delivery model). They seem to be a "parked" GoDaddy page right now... So perhaps they have already come and gone? -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 19:33:21 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 2010, Dave Cramer wrote: > Anyone else have poor experience with TG ? Not long after I came to Canada in 2003 I ordered something online from them. They initially accepted the order (and sent a confirmation email) and then blocked the order on the basis that I had used a foreign CC. I wouldn't have minded this too much actually but they did it silently. No calls, no emails, nada. After about a week I called them and they eventually found the problem. I did proceed with that purchase (with a different CC) but I didn't do any business with them for a couple of years after that. Since about 2005 I have dealt with them occassionally and been happy enough. Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 19:36:26 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 2010, Fabio FZero wrote: > Care to elaborate for us newcomers? :-) I really want to know where to buy > good'n'cheap hardware on physical stores around Toronto! Follow these steps... #1) Go to the corner of College & Spadina. Not terribly far from where we have the meetings infact. #2) Visually identify the large number of 'white box' computer retailers. #3) Proceed from store to store pricing what you want. #4) Return to the cheapest store to effect purchase. :) NB: Canada Computers is not as centrally located as it once was so you might have to walk for an extra minute to get there. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 20:10:53 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 16:10:53 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: <4BF2C6EC.3040900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF2C6EC.3040900@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100518201053.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 12:57:16PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > In the York University area I recommend Computers & Peripherals. > > South side of Steeles, East of Keele 1/2 block They are not bad, but they are a tiny place compared to canada computers and no match on price or selection in any way. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 20:12:46 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 16:12:46 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100518201246.GE17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 01:14:05PM -0400, Ijaaz A. Ullah wrote: > I'm a big fan of ncix (pricematching with newegg.ca). In general the > shipping costs are offset by the tax savings (NCIX is in BC). I have ordered from ncix and bestdirect.ca from BC as well. And in some cases they have had free shipping over $500, which certainly makes it cheaper than buying locally. But you have to wait to get your stuff. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 21:28:44 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 17:28:44 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BF3068C.5050308@rogers.com> Ijaaz A. Ullah wrote: > I'm a big fan of ncix (pricematching with newegg.ca). In general the > shipping costs are offset by the tax savings (NCIX is in BC). > I believe that will change when the HST kicks in. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 21:36:31 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 17:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: <20100518165415.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | | On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:09 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > For mailorder, Bewawa.ca, a newcomer, has a lot of good deals on its | > front page. ?Delivery is fast and free in most of the GTA (pizza | > delivery model). | | They seem to be a "parked" GoDaddy page right now... So perhaps they | have already come and gone? No, just that my memory is bad. http://www.bewawa.com/ From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 22:19:57 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 18:19:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <538c9f150adf29c344479719e494c023.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> I've bought some mice and a webcam from TD but they were a little on the expensive side. A Canada Computers opened up a few minutes away so I have been shopping there lately. I've also ordered from NCIX and never had a problem. > I've recently ordered something online with tigerdirect. They send a > flyer which advertised a code to input. When I got to the checkout > there was no place to enter the code. I decided I would fix it after. > > So I emailed them with the problem. They now say the item is shipped > and there is nothing they can do about it. > > At this point I am going to refuse shipment and challenge the credit card > > Anyone else have poor experience with TG ? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 03:10:54 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 23:10:54 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100519031054.GA17564@waltdnes.org> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:44:09AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote > Anyone else have poor experience with TG ? My one experience with them has been positive. I got a USB dialup modem from them because... a) it was only available online b) the ad specifically stated that the modem is linux-compatable http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3718719&sku=U13-4292 The modem works great after I did some Google/RTFM and built the appropriate kernel driver. Also, I had checked the "receive email offers" checkbox. A few weeks later when I decided I didn't want any more, I selected the "unsubscribe" link and got taken off the email list immediately. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 13:14:38 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:14:38 -0400 Subject: Cannot mount USB devices Message-ID: I installed some newer gvfs packages, specifically gvfs-fuse, and now I'm having trouble mounting anything. Anything I try and connect, I'll see this is syslog: May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ 260.772031] usb 1-6: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 4 May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ 260.915815] usb 1-6: New USB device found, idVendor=0930, idProduct=6545 May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ 260.915823] usb 1-6: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ 260.915827] usb 1-6: Product: USB Flash Memory May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ 260.915830] usb 1-6: Manufacturer: May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ 260.915833] usb 1-6: SerialNumber: 5B850D000095 May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ 260.915968] usb 1-6: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ 260.920986] scsi1 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ 260.944939] usb-storage: device found at 4 May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ 260.944943] usb-storage: waiting for device to settle before scanning May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ 265.944323] usb-storage: device scan complete May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ 265.975194] scsi 1:0:0:0: Direct-Access USB Flash Memory PMAP PQ: 0 ANSI: 0 CCS May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ 266.206837] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] 15659008 512-byte hardware sectors: (8.01 GB/7.46 GiB) May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ 266.207277] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ 266.207282] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 23 00 00 00 May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ 266.207286] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] Assuming drive cache: write through May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ 266.210902] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] Assuming drive cache: write through May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ 266.210914] sda: sda1 May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ 266.253755] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI removable disk However, nothing appears in Nautilus, and I cannot see a mountpoint in /media or /mnt. Not sure where to even go with this, I tried asking on #nautilus, no response at all. Any tips? -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 13:32:36 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 06:32:36 -0700 Subject: Cannot mount USB devices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 6:14 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I installed some newer gvfs packages, specifically gvfs-fuse, and now > I'm having trouble mounting anything. > > Anything I try and connect, I'll see this is syslog: > > May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.772031] usb 1-6: new high speed > USB device using ehci_hcd and address 4 > May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.915815] usb 1-6: New USB device > found, idVendor=0930, idProduct=6545 > May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.915823] usb 1-6: New USB device > strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 > May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.915827] usb 1-6: Product: USB Flash Memory > May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.915830] usb 1-6: Manufacturer: > May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.915833] usb 1-6: SerialNumber: 5B850D000095 > May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.915968] usb 1-6: configuration #1 > chosen from 1 choice > May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.920986] scsi1 : SCSI emulation > for USB Mass Storage devices > May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.944939] usb-storage: device found at 4 > May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.944943] usb-storage: waiting for > device to settle before scanning > May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?265.944323] usb-storage: device scan complete > May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?265.975194] scsi 1:0:0:0: > Direct-Access ? ? ? ? ? ? ?USB Flash Memory PMAP PQ: 0 ANSI: 0 CCS > May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.206837] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] > 15659008 512-byte hardware sectors: (8.01 GB/7.46 GiB) > May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.207277] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] Write > Protect is off > May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.207282] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] Mode > Sense: 23 00 00 00 > May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.207286] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] > Assuming drive cache: write through > May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.210902] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] > Assuming drive cache: write through > May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.210914] ?sda: sda1 > May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.253755] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] > Attached SCSI removable disk > > However, nothing appears in Nautilus, and I cannot see a mountpoint in > /media or /mnt. > > Not sure where to even go with this, I tried asking on #nautilus, no > response at all. > > Any tips? I've noticed that with my phone and some larger flash-based devices, it takes awhile before gnome etc find and mount the device. Can you still manage to do it manually as root? mkdir /mnt/usb mount vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt/usb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 13:36:49 2010 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:36:49 -0400 Subject: OT experiences with tigerdirect In-Reply-To: <20100519031054.GA17564-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100519031054.GA17564@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4BF3E971.9000100@totaltravelmarketing.com> On 5/18/2010 11:10 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:44:09AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote > >> Anyone else have poor experience with TG ? > I had had both kind, one good and a couple of awful, the awful were on their premises a few years back, I don't know what was with their staff back then, that they had this "I am too good for you" attitude across the floor, second one I was there only to advise a friend about some ram sticks he need it for his computer, and we got the same attitude to the point that my friend actually said the store was full of j#$@ks; I had to come back a few years later and something got change as their staff was actually willing to serve and help you, online as long as I know and I am sure what I am ordering is what I need it's been okay (their return-pay restocking fee sucks), I bought some camera from them and had to call in and they were okay, not the best compared to some other more expensive retailers (bestbuy). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 13:55:32 2010 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 13:55:32 +0000 Subject: Display Dimming When I Don't Want It To In-Reply-To: <1274209916.1599.248.camel@jimslaptop> References: <1274209916.1599.248.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: > Subject: [TLUG]: Display Dimming When I Don't Want It To > From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:11:56 -0400 > > Hi, > > I recently updated to Lucid on my laptop and for some reason when I > increase the brightness of my screen it just ramps down to minimum by > itself again. Not sure if this has something to do with Gnome Power > Manager. I made sure the settings look ok. It should only dim on low > battery but this is happening when on AC power. My laptop , an Asus, has > a light sensor that should set display brightness by itself. Maybe that > is interfering. If so it doesn't work properly because changing the > light level on the sensor doesn't seem to affect the display brightness. > The icon for brightness shows I am full brightness even though I am > actually at minimum brightness. Any thoughts? > Thanks, > Jim I've noticed some dimming also, but mainly with the OO spreadsheet. The visible cells dim, almost turn into a purplish hue, and won't brighten again. That never happened before the upgrade. A more annoying problem is that I can't switch users more than once, it seems. If I switch back to the original user, the entire screen turns black and the login window is not visible. It's still there (sometimes you can see a vague outline and the cursor changes shape when rolled over the input section), but noting will bring it back except to go to a console screen and restart or kill processes. Ctrl-Alt-Backspace does nothing. I think there's a bug listed for it already. Now I have to log off, then log on to a different user. And you can only log off if you know their password. John. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 14:48:12 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 10:48:12 -0400 Subject: Cannot mount USB devices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 6:14 AM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> I installed some newer gvfs packages, specifically gvfs-fuse, and now >> I'm having trouble mounting anything. >> >> Anything I try and connect, I'll see this is syslog: >> >> May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.772031] usb 1-6: new high speed >> USB device using ehci_hcd and address 4 >> May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.915815] usb 1-6: New USB device >> found, idVendor=0930, idProduct=6545 >> May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.915823] usb 1-6: New USB device >> strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 >> May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.915827] usb 1-6: Product: USB Flash Memory >> May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.915830] usb 1-6: Manufacturer: >> May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.915833] usb 1-6: SerialNumber: 5B850D000095 >> May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.915968] usb 1-6: configuration #1 >> chosen from 1 choice >> May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.920986] scsi1 : SCSI emulation >> for USB Mass Storage devices >> May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.944939] usb-storage: device found at 4 >> May 19 09:10:15 node1 kernel: [ ?260.944943] usb-storage: waiting for >> device to settle before scanning >> May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?265.944323] usb-storage: device scan complete >> May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?265.975194] scsi 1:0:0:0: >> Direct-Access ? ? ? ? ? ? ?USB Flash Memory PMAP PQ: 0 ANSI: 0 CCS >> May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.206837] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] >> 15659008 512-byte hardware sectors: (8.01 GB/7.46 GiB) >> May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.207277] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] Write >> Protect is off >> May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.207282] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] Mode >> Sense: 23 00 00 00 >> May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.207286] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] >> Assuming drive cache: write through >> May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.210902] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] >> Assuming drive cache: write through >> May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.210914] ?sda: sda1 >> May 19 09:10:20 node1 kernel: [ ?266.253755] sd 1:0:0:0: [sda] >> Attached SCSI removable disk >> >> However, nothing appears in Nautilus, and I cannot see a mountpoint in >> /media or /mnt. >> >> Not sure where to even go with this, I tried asking on #nautilus, no >> response at all. >> >> Any tips? > I've noticed that with my phone and some larger flash-based devices, > it takes awhile before gnome etc find and mount the device. It's been over an hour now...Gnome is slow sometimes, but ;) > Can you still manage to do it manually as root? > > mkdir /mnt/usb > mount vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt/usb That works fine, I think it's just gvfs that's fuxored. No idea where to go with that, though. There's a bunch of different gvfs packages, don't even know which one is responsible. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 14:59:42 2010 From: slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 10:59:42 -0400 Subject: Cannot mount USB devices In-Reply-To: (Thomas Milne's message of "Wed\, 19 May 2010 09\:14\:38 -0400") References: Message-ID: <87mxvw3pk1.fsf@azurservers.com> Thomas Milne a ?crit profondement: | I installed some newer gvfs packages, specifically gvfs-fuse, and now | I'm having trouble mounting anything. | TRY THIS First make a simple script to save repeated typing and/or to call up the UUID listing if you forget the exact syntax call it 'getuuid' and put it in /usr/local/bin or wherever you put your scripts barebones script; ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid The following examples are from part of my system - modify them to suit yourself Execute getuuid It shows this: [your list may not be ordered as I Cooked this ;)] total 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 15:16 7AC4B6EDC4B6AAB1-> ../../sda1 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 15:16 1ADB-0F8C -> ../../sda2 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 15:16 2eb54981-5631-462c-950f-b66a86748239 -> ../../sda3 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 15:16 b64f9ecb-b643-4221-955d-9d7f3c04191f -> ../../sda4 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 3947f95b-5be5-4ab3-a562-3121af3fe269 -> ../../sdb1 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 d4738dee-116a-4c17-9c17-703f4044ed2c -> ../../sdb2 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 ccc5f159-5506-46cf-bc70-9a69a1a71d1a -> ../../sdb3 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 0fe8cbfe-e87b-4a12-9a36-e0956968c934 -> ../../sdb4 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 4B2E-30DD -> ../../sdc1 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 1b7548e1-47c9-4cff-a915-0f7be5c18dd0 -> ../../sdc2 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 bd8d3706-0b44-4ba0-bbfa-88796b36bc7d -> ../../sdc3 At this stage you should be able to figure out which drive is which - if not do them one by one so you are sure Now physically mark them - I have several but only show two USB plus the internal here as an example - a bit of paper stuck on with adhesive tape is great Now I use scripts to mount/umount because drives get moved from box to box SDA is internal and I mount it in fstab which looks like this # INTERNAL HARD DRIVE - sda3 is / and sda4 is swap UUID=7AC4B6EDC4B6AAB1 /mnt/sda1 ntfs defaults 1 0 UUID=1ADB-0F8C /mnt/sda2 vfat defaults 1 1 UUID=2eb54981-5631-462c-950f-b66a86748239 / ext4 defaults 1 1 UUID=b64f9ecb-b643-4221-955d-9d7f3c04191f swap swap defaults 0 0 # INTERNAL CD DRIVE #/dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom auto noauto,owner,ro 0 0 # EXTERNAL HARD DRIVES mount by scripts in /usr/local/bin devpts /dev/pts devpts gid=5,mode=620 0 0 proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs defaults 0 0 For sdb and sdc I use the following scripts SDB - note I don't use the driveID for the mount points as the driveiD can change [no /mnt/sdb1 etc or all kinds of horribles can happen] #! /bin/sh mkdir -p /mnt/b1 1>/dev/null 2>&1 [use something you will recognize instead of 'b1' etc] mkdir -p /mnt/b2 1>/dev/null 2>&1 mkdir -p /mnt/b3 1>/dev/null 2>&1 mkdir -p /mnt/b4 1>/dev/null 2>&1 mount -t ext3 UUID=3947f95b-5be5-4ab3-a562-3121af3fe269 /mnt/b1 mount -t ext3 UUID=d4738dee-116a-4c17-9c17-703f4044ed2c /mnt/b2 mount -t ext3 UUID=ccc5f159-5506-46cf-bc70-9a69a1a71d1a /mnt/b3 mount -t ext3 UUID=0fe8cbfe-e87b-4a12-9a36-e0956968c934 /mnt/b4 # EOF AND SDC #! /bin/sh mkdir -p /mnt/c1 1>/dev/null 2>&1 mkdir -p /mnt/c2 1>/dev/null 2>&1 mkdir -p /mnt/c3 1>/dev/null 2>&1 mount -t vfat UUID=4B2E-30DD /mnt/c1 mount -t ext3 UUID=1b7548e1-47c9-4cff-a915-0f7be5c18dd0 /mnt/c2 mount -t ext3 UUID=bd8d3706-0b44-4ba0-bbfa-88796b36bc7d /mnt/c3 # EOF You will be able to figurre out for yourself how to unmount them Good Luck Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 16:31:27 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 12:31:27 -0400 Subject: Cannot mount USB devices In-Reply-To: <87mxvw3pk1.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <87mxvw3pk1.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Slack Rat wrote: > Thomas Milne a ?crit profondement: > > | I installed some newer gvfs packages, specifically gvfs-fuse, and now > | I'm having trouble mounting anything. > | > > TRY THIS > > First make a simple script to save repeated typing ?and/or to call up the UUID > listing if you forget the exact syntax > > call it 'getuuid' and put it in /usr/local/bin or wherever you put > your scripts > > barebones script; > ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid > > The following examples are from part of my system - modify them to suit yourself > > Execute getuuid > > It shows this: [your list may not be ordered as I Cooked this ;)] > total 0 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 15:16 7AC4B6EDC4B6AAB1-> ../../sda1 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 15:16 1ADB-0F8C -> ../../sda2 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 15:16 2eb54981-5631-462c-950f-b66a86748239 -> ../../sda3 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 15:16 b64f9ecb-b643-4221-955d-9d7f3c04191f -> ../../sda4 > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 3947f95b-5be5-4ab3-a562-3121af3fe269 -> ../../sdb1 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 d4738dee-116a-4c17-9c17-703f4044ed2c -> ../../sdb2 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 ccc5f159-5506-46cf-bc70-9a69a1a71d1a -> ../../sdb3 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 0fe8cbfe-e87b-4a12-9a36-e0956968c934 -> ../../sdb4 > > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 4B2E-30DD -> ../../sdc1 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 1b7548e1-47c9-4cff-a915-0f7be5c18dd0 -> ../../sdc2 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2010-05-18 19:17 bd8d3706-0b44-4ba0-bbfa-88796b36bc7d -> ../../sdc3 > > > > At this stage you should be able to figure out which drive is which - if > not do them one by one so you are sure > > Now physically mark them - I have several but only show two USB plus the > internal here as an example - a bit of paper stuck on with adhesive tape > is great > > > Now I use scripts to mount/umount because drives get moved from box > to box > > SDA is internal and I mount it in fstab which looks like this > > # INTERNAL HARD DRIVE - sda3 is / and sda4 is swap > UUID=7AC4B6EDC4B6AAB1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? /mnt/sda1 ? ? ? ?ntfs ? ? ? ?defaults ? ? ? ? 1 ? 0 > UUID=1ADB-0F8C ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/mnt/sda2 ? ? ? ?vfat ? ? ? ?defaults ? ? ? ? 1 ? 1 > UUID=2eb54981-5631-462c-950f-b66a86748239 ? ? ? / ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ext4 ? ? ? ?defaults ? ? ? ? 1 ? 1 > UUID=b64f9ecb-b643-4221-955d-9d7f3c04191f ? ? ? swap ? ? ? ? ? ? swap ? ? ? ?defaults ? ? ? ? 0 ? 0 > # INTERNAL CD DRIVE > #/dev/cdrom ? ? ?/mnt/cdrom ? ? ? auto ? ? ? ?noauto,owner,ro ?0 ? 0 > # EXTERNAL HARD DRIVES mount by scripts in /usr/local/bin > devpts ? ? ? ? ? /dev/pts ? ? ? ? devpts ? ? ?gid=5,mode=620 ? 0 ? 0 > proc ? ? ? ? ? ? /proc ? ? ? ? ? ?proc ? ? ? ?defaults ? ? ? ? 0 ? 0 > tmpfs ? ? ? ? ? ?/dev/shm ? ? ? ? tmpfs ? ? ? defaults ? ? ? ? 0 ? 0 > > For sdb and sdc I use the following scripts > > SDB - note I don't use the driveID for the mount points as the driveiD > can change [no /mnt/sdb1 etc or all kinds of horribles can happen] > > #! /bin/sh > mkdir -p /mnt/b1 1>/dev/null 2>&1 > ?[use something you will recognize instead of 'b1' etc] > mkdir -p /mnt/b2 ?1>/dev/null 2>&1 > mkdir -p /mnt/b3 ?1>/dev/null 2>&1 > mkdir -p /mnt/b4 ?1>/dev/null 2>&1 > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mount -t ext3 UUID=3947f95b-5be5-4ab3-a562-3121af3fe269 /mnt/b1 > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mount -t ext3 UUID=d4738dee-116a-4c17-9c17-703f4044ed2c /mnt/b2 > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mount -t ext3 UUID=ccc5f159-5506-46cf-bc70-9a69a1a71d1a /mnt/b3 > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mount -t ext3 UUID=0fe8cbfe-e87b-4a12-9a36-e0956968c934 /mnt/b4 > # EOF > > AND SDC > > #! /bin/sh > mkdir -p /mnt/c1 ?1>/dev/null 2>&1 > mkdir -p /mnt/c2 ?1>/dev/null 2>&1 > mkdir -p /mnt/c3 ?1>/dev/null 2>&1 > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mount -t vfat UUID=4B2E-30DD /mnt/c1 > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mount -t ext3 UUID=1b7548e1-47c9-4cff-a915-0f7be5c18dd0 /mnt/c2 > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?mount -t ext3 UUID=bd8d3706-0b44-4ba0-bbfa-88796b36bc7d ?/mnt/c3 > > # EOF > > You will be able to figurre out for yourself how to unmount them > > Good Luck > I kinda want to fix gvfs. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 16:33:45 2010 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 12:33:45 -0400 Subject: Display Dimming When I Don't Want It To In-Reply-To: <1274209916.1599.248.camel@jimslaptop> References: <1274209916.1599.248.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:11 PM, jim wrote: > Hi, > > I recently updated to Lucid on my laptop and for some reason when I > increase the brightness of my screen it just ramps down to minimum by > itself again. Not sure if this has something to do with Gnome Power > Manager. I made sure the settings look ok. It should only dim on low > battery but this is happening when on AC power. My laptop , an Asus, has > a light sensor that should set display brightness by itself. Maybe that > is interfering. If so it doesn't work properly because changing the > light level on the sensor doesn't seem to affect the display brightness. > The icon for brightness shows I am full brightness even though I am > actually at minimum brightness. Any thoughts? Hi Jim... I recently picked up a Asus 1001P-MU17 netbook and tried out Lucid on it (now running Debian) and the screen brightness was all over the map. I fixed it by modifying the line /etc/default/grub to: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet acpi_osi=Linux acpi_backlight=vendor" and rebooting. To get maximum brightness the first time after rebooting you may need to modify the brightness by hand... on my eeepc netbook its: echo 15 > /sys/class/backlight/eeepc/brightness Your path with be different but thats the general idea. Hope this helps to point you towards a solution! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 16:43:59 2010 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 12:43:59 -0400 Subject: Display Dimming When I Don't Want It To In-Reply-To: References: <1274209916.1599.248.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Hi Jim... I recently picked up a Asus 1001P-MU17 netbook and tried out > Lucid on it (now running Debian) and the screen brightness was all > over the map. I fixed it by modifying the line /etc/default/grub to: > > GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet acpi_osi=Linux acpi_backlight=vendor" > > and rebooting. To get maximum brightness the first time after > rebooting you may need to modify the brightness by hand... on my eeepc > netbook its: Forgot to add... after editing /etc/default/grub you need to run: update-grub2 ... before rebooting. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 19:44:55 2010 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 15:44:55 -0400 Subject: Display Dimming When I Don't Want It To In-Reply-To: References: <1274209916.1599.248.camel@jimslaptop> Message-ID: <1274298295.6706.46.camel@jimslaptop> > > Hi Jim... I recently picked up a Asus 1001P-MU17 netbook and tried out > > Lucid on it (now running Debian) and the screen brightness was all > > over the map. I fixed it by modifying the line /etc/default/grub to: > > > > GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet acpi_osi=Linux acpi_backlight=vendor" > > > > and rebooting. To get maximum brightness the first time after > > rebooting you may need to modify the brightness by hand... on my eeepc > > netbook its: > > Forgot to add... after editing /etc/default/grub you need to run: > > update-grub2 > > ... before rebooting. Thanks for all the help. I found out by running gconf-editor and going to apps > gnome-power-manager > backlight I was able to set the dimming when on AC to 100% . Strange that setting this in preferences for gnome-power-manager didn't work. I had to use gconf-editor to get it to stick?? Jim > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 21:17:03 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 17:17:03 -0400 Subject: WebM and VP8 Free and Open multimedia on the web Message-ID: Forwarded from another list. [Context: proprietary codecs and formats suck] On a related note Google,Mozilla and Opera have joined to announce[1] a new open video format called webm [2]. It?s licensed using a BSD-style license. ?WebM and the codecs it supports (VP8 video and Vorbis audio) require no royalty payments of any kind. Chromium, Firefox, and Opera builds are available today[3]. Chrome builds will shortly follow. No statement yet from Microsoft or Apple regarding support in their platforms. 1.http://webmproject.blogspot.com/2010/05/introducing-webm-open-web-media-project.html 2. http://www.webmproject.org/about/ 3. http://www.webmproject.org/users/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 12:32:23 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 08:32:23 -0400 Subject: [OT] How to Diagnose Problem Inboud Connect Through Router? Message-ID: <4BF52BD7.8000602@rogers.com> I have set up OpenSSH on my Linux server and Putty as a client on my Windows laptop. They connect just fine at home. I set the router's firewall to forward port 22 to the Linux server. I can ping the router just fine. But I get unable to connect errors when trying to connect using SSH. How can I diagnose this? I am thinking that I connect the laptop to the WAN port on the router, hard code IP's for the wan port and the laptop and go from there. Am I on the right track? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 13:57:27 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:57:27 -0400 Subject: [OT] How to Diagnose Problem Inboud Connect Through Router? In-Reply-To: <4BF52BD7.8000602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF52BD7.8000602@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 20 May 2010 08:32, Stephen wrote: > I am thinking that I connect the laptop to the WAN port on the router, hard > code IP's for the wan port and the laptop and go from there. Am I on the > right track? Yes, if this works it indicates that probably port 22 is being blocked somewhere along your Internet path. If it doesn't work, I suggest running WireShark on both the Linux server an the laptop to help trace the problem. Note that with your laptop connected to the WAN port with hard coded IP addresses, you probably won't have a DNS so you'll have to use IP addresses for the destination(s), not domain names. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 14:02:19 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 10:02:19 -0400 Subject: [OT] How to Diagnose Problem Inboud Connect Through Router? In-Reply-To: <4BF52BD7.8000602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF52BD7.8000602@rogers.com> Message-ID: You probably already know this but, if you connect your laptop to the WAN port of the router make sure that the fixed IP addresses and mask that you use are on a different network than your internal LAN. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 15:42:24 2010 From: rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rafael Carneiro) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 11:42:24 -0400 Subject: [OT] How to Diagnose Problem Inboud Connect Through Router? In-Reply-To: <4BF52BD7.8000602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF52BD7.8000602@rogers.com> Message-ID: You can use telnet to find out if you have connectivity to an open TCP port. So *telnet 22* should just open with a banner like "SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.3p1 Debian-3ubuntu3". It should just work from any machine within your own network (granted that you properly forwarded that port and disabled any firewalls). If that works, then you should test it from somewhere else, which should also work but then you depend on port TCP/22 being allowed (outbound) wherever you decide to run that from. If you're considering leaving SSH open to the world, make sure you have a strong password and not obvious username as well as iptables/fail2ban or something of that nature to protect yourself. There are a lot of wannabe hackers out there scanning public IPs. Rafael On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Stephen wrote: > I have set up OpenSSH on my Linux server and Putty as a client on my > Windows laptop. > > They connect just fine at home. > > I set the router's firewall to forward port 22 to the Linux server. > > I can ping the router just fine. But I get unable to connect errors when > trying to connect using SSH. > > How can I diagnose this? > > I am thinking that I connect the laptop to the WAN port on the router, hard > code IP's for the wan port and the laptop and go from there. Am I on the > right track? > > Thanks > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Rafael Carneiro http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rcarneiro -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 15:56:29 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 11:56:29 -0400 Subject: [OT] How to Diagnose Problem Inboud Connect Through Router? In-Reply-To: <4BF52BD7.8000602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF52BD7.8000602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BF55BAD.3020304@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > I have set up OpenSSH on my Linux server and Putty as a client on my > Windows laptop. > > They connect just fine at home. > > I set the router's firewall to forward port 22 to the Linux server. > > I can ping the router just fine. But I get unable to connect errors > when trying to connect using SSH. > > How can I diagnose this? > > I am thinking that I connect the laptop to the WAN port on the router, > hard code IP's for the wan port and the laptop and go from there. Am I > on the right track? > > Hi Stephen. Would you like me to try connecting? If so, create a user name jknott on the Linux box and I'll see what happens. I'll connect with Linux and can watch what happens with Wireshark. If that's successful, I can try with Putty. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 15:58:56 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 11:58:56 -0400 Subject: [OT] How to Diagnose Problem Inboud Connect Through Router? In-Reply-To: References: <4BF52BD7.8000602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BF55C40.4050305@rogers.com> Scott Allen wrote: > On 20 May 2010 08:32, Stephen wrote: > >> I am thinking that I connect the laptop to the WAN port on the router, hard >> code IP's for the wan port and the laptop and go from there. Am I on the >> right track? >> > Yes, if this works it indicates that probably port 22 is being blocked > somewhere along your Internet path. If it doesn't work, I suggest > running WireShark on both the Linux server an the laptop to help trace > the problem. > That may be it. I can use ssh from places like Starbucks, but not the Mississauga library. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 16:02:58 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 12:02:58 -0400 Subject: [OT] How to Diagnose Problem Inboud Connect Through Router? In-Reply-To: References: <4BF52BD7.8000602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BF55D32.2050302@rogers.com> Rafael Carneiro wrote: > If you're considering leaving SSH open to the world, make sure you > have a strong password Or better yet, use public/secret key, instead of a password. That way, there's no way anyone can connect without the secret key. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 07:55:47 2010 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 03:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] How to Diagnose Problem Inboud Connect Through Router? In-Reply-To: <4BF55D32.2050302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF52BD7.8000602@rogers.com> <4BF55D32.2050302@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 May 2010, James Knott wrote: > Rafael Carneiro wrote: > > If you're considering leaving SSH open to the world, make sure you have a > > strong password > Or better yet, use public/secret key, instead of a password. That way, > there's no way anyone can connect without the secret key. Is there a way to configure SSHD to require both the private key and a remote password? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 12:36:42 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 08:36:42 -0400 Subject: [OT] How to Diagnose Problem Inboud Connect Through Router? In-Reply-To: <4BF52BD7.8000602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF52BD7.8000602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BF67E5A.5080702@rogers.com> Thank to all who responded. I checked the router settings more closely and found that it was not sufficient to just specify the port forwarding. There is this radio button ..... and the setting was at default: Disable I connected just fine this morning. I am using keys, and I have disabled SSH with a password login. Now to get VNC working! Cheers Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 14:17:03 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 10:17:03 -0400 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? Message-ID: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> I want to do a big rename of files on my Linux system. I have ripped a large number of CD's, and the filenames start with the track number. But they go 1,2,3 ...10,11,12 When my PS3 accesses my (Linux) media server, it sees these as 10,11,12,1,2.... So to get the right order I want to change the files to 01,02,03... The files are in directories: /home/stephen/music/*artist*/*album*/filenames What should I look at? BASH??? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 14:22:37 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 10:22:37 -0400 Subject: [OT] How to Diagnose Problem Inboud Connect Through Router? In-Reply-To: References: <4BF52BD7.8000602@rogers.com> <4BF55D32.2050302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100521142237.GB9762@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 03:55:47AM -0400, Eric Battersby wrote: >Is there a way to configure SSHD to require both the private key >and a remote password? You make sure that you only create keys that are themselves encrypted and require a password. Puttygen for Windows can help you with this, otherwise when you generate your key pair, be sure to require a password. That way a password is required, but never transmitted over the wire. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 14:36:42 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 14:36:42 +0000 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? In-Reply-To: <4BF695DF.2000901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Stephen wrote: > I want to do a big rename of files on my Linux system. Bash would presumably be a reasonable choice... You can get REXX, actually. apt-get install regina-rexx -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 14:36:49 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 10:36:49 -0400 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? In-Reply-To: <4BF695DF.2000901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BF69A81.8020209@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > I want to do a big rename of files on my Linux system. > > I have ripped a large number of CD's, and the filenames start with the > track number. But they go 1,2,3 ...10,11,12 > > When my PS3 accesses my (Linux) media server, it sees these as > 10,11,12,1,2.... > > So to get the right order I want to change the files to 01,02,03... > > > The files are in directories: > > /home/stephen/music/*artist*/*album*/filenames > > What should I look at? > > BASH??? > http://www.linux.org/apps/AppId_8860.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 14:38:11 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 10:38:11 -0400 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? In-Reply-To: <4BF695DF.2000901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100521143811.GC9762@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:17:03AM -0400, Stephen wrote: >I want to do a big rename of files on my Linux system. > >I have ripped a large number of CD's, and the filenames start with >the track number. But they go 1,2,3 ...10,11,12 > >When my PS3 accesses my (Linux) media server, it sees these as >10,11,12,1,2.... > >So to get the right order I want to change the files to 01,02,03... > > >The files are in directories: > >/home/stephen/music/*artist*/*album*/filenames > >What should I look at? > >BASH??? If you have a favourite scripting language, use that. For instance, in Python (my favoured tool) you would use the os module to walk the filesystem and generate sensible filenames (with padded numerical values). Example Pythonic pseudocode (no time to write/test a real script this morning (sorry)): import os basedir = "/home/stephen/music" for root, directory, file in os.path.walk(basedir): for artist in directory: for album in artist: trackdir_location = os.path.join(root,os.path.join(directory,os.path.join(artist,album))) tracks = os.listdir(trackdir_location) for track in tracks: " Assuming the files are called ##.ogg or somesuch tracknameparts = track.split(".ogg") newtrackname = artist + "_" + album + "_" + str("%\d2",int(tracknameparts[0])) os.rename(os.path.join(trackdir_location,track),os.path.join(trackdir_location,newtrackname)) That's off the top of my head, but it is at least an approach. Remember to make a copy to test on :-) Good luck! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 14:38:22 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 10:38:22 -0400 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? In-Reply-To: <4BF695DF.2000901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BF69ADE.9040907@dinamis.com> On 05/21/2010 10:17 AM, Stephen wrote: > I want to do a big rename of files on my Linux system. KRename will do that. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 14:57:48 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 10:57:48 -0400 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? In-Reply-To: <20100521143811.GC9762-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> <20100521143811.GC9762@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: I have to say this: os.path.walk saved my life a couple of times when I worked with mobile content. I used to receive lots of video files without any naming convention and a CSV which listed which file had which format(s). Using a combination of os.path.walk with the CSV python module, I sorted out this mess two times a week in less than one minute. I love you os.path.walk. If you were a girl, I would marry you. xoxo FZero On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:38, William O'Higgins Witteman < william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:17:03AM -0400, Stephen wrote: > >I want to do a big rename of files on my Linux system. > > > >I have ripped a large number of CD's, and the filenames start with > >the track number. But they go 1,2,3 ...10,11,12 > > > >When my PS3 accesses my (Linux) media server, it sees these as > >10,11,12,1,2.... > > > >So to get the right order I want to change the files to 01,02,03... > > > > > >The files are in directories: > > > >/home/stephen/music/*artist*/*album*/filenames > > > >What should I look at? > > > >BASH??? > > If you have a favourite scripting language, use that. For instance, in > Python (my favoured tool) you would use the os module to walk the > filesystem and generate sensible filenames (with padded numerical values). > > Example Pythonic pseudocode (no time to write/test a real script this > morning (sorry)): > > import os > > basedir = "/home/stephen/music" > > for root, directory, file in os.path.walk(basedir): > for artist in directory: > for album in artist: > trackdir_location = > os.path.join(root,os.path.join(directory,os.path.join(artist,album))) > tracks = os.listdir(trackdir_location) > for track in tracks: > " Assuming the files are called ##.ogg or somesuch > tracknameparts = track.split(".ogg") > newtrackname = artist + "_" + album + "_" + > str("%\d2",int(tracknameparts[0])) > > os.rename(os.path.join(trackdir_location,track),os.path.join(trackdir_location,newtrackname)) > > That's off the top of my head, but it is at least an approach. Remember > to make a copy to test on :-) > > Good luck! > -- > > yours, > > William > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFL9prTHQtmiuz+KT8RAnP2AJ40UUYxLeL+I5G+dfCLSmbrC+xU4gCfdyiG > Db/w4RBp+siANnsEDqcCQ10= > =NQzY > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 15:12:55 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 11:12:55 -0400 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? In-Reply-To: <4BF695DF.2000901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100521151255.GF17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:17:03AM -0400, Stephen wrote: > I want to do a big rename of files on my Linux system. > > I have ripped a large number of CD's, and the filenames start with the > track number. But they go 1,2,3 ...10,11,12 > > When my PS3 accesses my (Linux) media server, it sees these as > 10,11,12,1,2.... > > So to get the right order I want to change the files to 01,02,03... > > The files are in directories: > > /home/stephen/music/*artist*/*album*/filenames > > What should I look at? Well if the files were for example 1_blah.mp3 2_blah.mp3 etc. Then you could do: rename 's/^([0-9])_/0$1_/' * in each directory. To make it work with directories maybe: find . -type f |xargs rename 's%/([1-9])(_[^/]*)$%/0$1$2%' That changed: ./test1 ./test1/10_foo ./test1/11_foo ./test1/12_foo ./test1/1_foo ./test1/2_foo ./test1/3_foo ./test1/4_foo ./test1/5_foo ./test1/6_foo ./test1/7_foo ./test1/8_foo ./test1/9_foo ./test2 ./test2/10_foo ./test2/11_foo ./test2/12_foo ./test2/1_foo ./test2/2_foo ./test2/3_foo ./test2/4_foo ./test2/5_foo ./test2/6_foo ./test2/7_foo ./test2/8_foo ./test2/9_foo into ./test1 ./test1/01_foo ./test1/02_foo ./test1/03_foo ./test1/04_foo ./test1/05_foo ./test1/06_foo ./test1/07_foo ./test1/08_foo ./test1/09_foo ./test1/10_foo ./test1/11_foo ./test1/12_foo ./test2 ./test2/01_foo ./test2/02_foo ./test2/03_foo ./test2/04_foo ./test2/05_foo ./test2/06_foo ./test2/07_foo ./test2/08_foo ./test2/09_foo ./test2/10_foo ./test2/11_foo ./test2/12_foo -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 15:18:03 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 11:18:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: <20091028175403.GB11671-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20091028175403.GB11671@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart has recommended this router. It is certainly not the cheapest, but there is a one-day sale on it at Infonec: This appears to be about 10% less than the best other local price. I've enclosed one of Lennart's postings on this router. Before that, here's a bit from a later discussion. 64M in an off-the-shelf wireless router seems remarkable. Invaluable if you intend to build custom firmware with an abnormal amount of software. | Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:25:06 -0500 | From: Lennart Sorensen | Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Announcing OpenWrt/MLPPP - multilink firmware for | consumer routers - Caneris & Acanac | | On Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 01:53:03PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > | From: Lennart Sorensen | > | > | Actually some DIR-825 rev B seem to have 64MB according to the dd-wrt | > | developers. Some have 32MB. No one seems to know why this is. | > | > Nice! It would be nice to know if you could some how tell before you | > buy. | | None that I know of. It seems dlink considers them equivelant and it's | just a build variation. Not sure if they need a different FCC id if | they change the ram like that, so perhaps there is a difference. On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: | Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:54:03 -0400 | From: Lennart Sorensen | Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Subject: [TLUG]: New wireless router | | So two days ago, my WL-500gP suddenly decided to stop doing its job, | and after pwoer cycling it it no longer booted. | | Reflashing it seemed to get it booting again, but not for long, and I | then discovered the WAN port had turned into a LAN port on the switch, | which meant the switch chip was no longer being configuring correctly. | | So time for a new router. After looking what was available at local | stores and researching them, I found out simultanious dual band routers | with 802.11n are actually getting affordable now, and some of them are | being worked on and will probably be supported by openwrt and the like | pretty soon. | | So I bought a D-Link DIR-825 rev B1 with 2.02NA firmware (all nicely | labeled on the outside of the box. Linksys could learn something here). | Very specificly NOT a rev A1 (which is apparently a piece of junk, with | totally different hardware and software inside). The rev A uses an ubicom | CPU (300MHz proprietary RISC chip), while the rev B uses a 680MHz atheros | 7161 MIPS 24k CPU. The rev B runs linux (the A does not apparently). | So with a 680MHz CPU and 64MB ram it is quite decent performance. | So far I am impressed. The signal strength for the various wifi enabled | machines in the house is much improved over the old router too. | | I really like the guest wifi feature. I now have it running as: | | wifi5 - WPA2/AES 5GHz 802.11 a/n | | wifi24 - WPA2/AES 2.4GHz 802.11 b/g/n | | wifi24ds - WEP 128bit 2.4GHz 802.11 b/g guest (firewalled from the | other wifi and hence internet only access). I run my Nintendo DS lite | on this now. I never had it able to connect to the internet before | because it doesn't do WPA. | | The only issues with the default settings are a couple of misfeatures. | The QoS support by default tries to measure the upstream bandwidth to | decide how to configure the QoS support. This takes a while, isn't that | accurate and slows down boot time by a noticeable amount. I turned | that off and set my 1Mbit upstream speed manually. Boot time is now | much better and nicer. The second misfeature, is a capcha at the login | screen in addition to the password. That is totally stupid, not even | a well done capcha, and I turned that off too. Everything else is great. | Well the blue LEDs for the ports and power and such are awfully bright. | I made mine face the wall for now. Apparently blue means working and | amber means not yet working on this thing rather than red/green. | | So I would certainly recommend the DIR0825 rev B for anyone that wants | the everything in one and at the same time wifi router. Once openwrt | and such hopefully one day runs on it, it will just get better. | | I also like the fact that the first thing you see when you open up the | box, is a printed copy of the GPL along with an offer of getting a disc | with the GPL parts of the code by writing them or sending an email. | You can also download it from the website ofcourse. The CD with the | windows software also has a note on the back for Mac and Linux (both | listed explicitly) users telling them where on the CD to find the | documentation files. | | -- | Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 16:59:41 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 12:59:41 -0400 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? In-Reply-To: <20100521151255.GF17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> <20100521151255.GF17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 21 May 2010 11:12, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Then you could do: > > rename 's/^([0-9])_/0$1_/' * Note that there is more than one version of rename on Linux systems. Their usage and syntax varies. I believe Stephen is using Ubuntu 10.04. If so the one Lennart describes will match. There is a different version provided in the util-linux-ng package. In Ubuntu 10.04 the command for this version is rename.ul but in other distributions it may be what you get if you just use rename. Try "rename -h" first to find verify that it works the way you expect. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 17:02:21 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 13:02:21 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: References: <20091028175403.GB11671@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BF6BC9D.5070701@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > wifi24ds - WEP 128bit 2.4GHz 802.11 b/g guest (firewalled from the > | other wifi and hence internet only access). Is that guest mode WEP only? Or can it be unencrypted or WPA2? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 17:25:46 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 13:25:46 -0400 Subject: Fwd: UG News: *Free to Choose* Ebook Deal of the Day. Any O'Reilly ebook. Only $9.99. In-Reply-To: <1274461855.7476.0.211735-HpEIymqFz0ygfV3Yru/wKg@public.gmane.org> References: <1274461855.7476.0.211735@post.oreilly.com> Message-ID: Of possible interest, O'Reilly is doing a special on eBooks, for today only... Colin. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Marsee Henon Date: Fri, May 21, 2010 at 1:10 PM Subject: UG News: *Free to Choose* Ebook Deal of the Day. Any O'Reilly ebook. Only $9.99. To: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org If you cannot read the information below, click here. Free to Choose Ebook Deal of the Day ? Only $9.99 Our Ebook Deal of the Day is so popular, we want to make sure you know about it, and give you the chance to choose. Download in 4 DRM-free formats: PDF, .epub, Kindle-compatible .mobi, and Android .apk. Learn more. Only $9.99. Choose any O'Reilly ebook from our list of over 2,000 titles. (Microsoft Press titles are excluded from this offer.) Enter code FAVFA in the O'Reilly cart. One Day Only: 5/21/2010 Spreading the knowledge of innovators oreilly.com You are receiving this email because you are a User Group contact with O'Reilly Media. Forward this announcement. If you would like to stop receiving these newsletters or announcements from O'Reilly, send an email to marsee-jwAc06hyVjXowKkBSvOlow at public.gmane.org O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472 (707) 827-7000 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 17:56:11 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 13:56:11 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: References: <20091028175403.GB11671@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100521175611.GG17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 11:18:03AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Lennart has recommended this router. It is certainly not the > cheapest, but there is a one-day sale on it at Infonec: > > > This appears to be about 10% less than the best other local price. > > I've enclosed one of Lennart's postings on this router. > > Before that, here's a bit from a later discussion. 64M in an > off-the-shelf wireless router seems remarkable. Invaluable if you intend > to build custom firmware with an abnormal amount of software. Well from what I have found online, some have 32MB ram, some have 64MB. Not sure which is more common. It certainly is far superior to the linksys wrt54gl. The fact it runs a 2.6 kernel (not 2.4) and has no crappy broadcom chips in it, and way more flash and ram and much faster cpu and usb and dual band wifi and 802.11abgn is just a bonus. Nice price for it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 17:56:46 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 13:56:46 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: <4BF6BC9D.5070701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091028175403.GB11671@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF6BC9D.5070701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100521175646.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 01:02:21PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> wifi24ds - WEP 128bit 2.4GHz 802.11 b/g guest (firewalled from the >> | other wifi and hence internet only access). > Is that guest mode WEP only? Or can it be unencrypted or WPA2? Anything you want. I happen to use it for a Nintendo DS which only does WEP. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 17:59:39 2010 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 17:59:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> <20100521143811.GC9762@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: Fabio FZero writes: > I have to say this: os.path.walk saved my life a couple of times when I worked > with mobile content. Usually anything written in Python in 100LOC can be written in Bash in 3 lines. Apart from that man ftw(3) lets you do it even in C. Py is a great scripting language but it excels at large projects (such as Blender), not at nitty-gritty shell work. -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 18:04:39 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 14:04:39 -0400 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? In-Reply-To: <4BF695DF.2000901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100521180439.GA4744@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:17:03AM -0400, Stephen wrote: > I want to do a big rename of files on my Linux system. > > I have ripped a large number of CD's, and the filenames start with the > track number. But they go 1,2,3 ...10,11,12 > > When my PS3 accesses my (Linux) media server, it sees these as > 10,11,12,1,2.... > > So to get the right order I want to change the files to 01,02,03... > > > The files are in directories: > > /home/stephen/music/*artist*/*album*/filenames > > What should I look at? > > BASH??? Could you not do something like 'ls -v' ? If not, then rename them like find /home/stephen/music/*artist*/*album*/filenames \ -type f -name '[0-9][^0-9]*' -execdir mv '{}' '0{}' ';' This will not catch single digit filename. To catch those, do second run. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 20:27:25 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 16:27:25 -0400 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? In-Reply-To: References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> <20100521143811.GC9762@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: Agreed. But every time I have to do complex string manipulations in bash, I want to kill myself. Hence Python (or Ruby). - FZ On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 13:59, Peter wrote: > Fabio FZero writes: > > I have to say this: os.path.walk saved my life a couple of times when I > worked > > with mobile content. > > Usually anything written in Python in 100LOC can be written in Bash in 3 > lines. > Apart from that man ftw(3) lets you do it even in C. > Py is a great scripting language but it excels at large projects (such as > Blender), not at nitty-gritty shell work. > > -- Peter > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 20:43:11 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 16:43:11 -0400 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? In-Reply-To: References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> <20100521143811.GC9762@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100521204311.GA12643@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 05:59:39PM +0000, Peter wrote: >Fabio FZero writes: >> I have to say this: os.path.walk saved my life a couple of times when I worked >> with mobile content. > >Usually anything written in Python in 100LOC can be written in Bash in 3 lines. >Apart from that man ftw(3) lets you do it even in C. >Py is a great scripting language but it excels at large projects (such as >Blender), not at nitty-gritty shell work. I agree, but I find that when I write a bit of Python I end up with a tool I may adapt and reuse, but when I do stuff in bash I don't remember it as well, and can't reuse it across platforms. The saving grace for me with Python is that I can take the same tools to Windows or OS X machines and they still work - more LOC, but more portable too. I'm sure you could replace me with a very small shell script, but at work and at home I appear to be a miracle-worker with prophet-like powers. I don't do things like the problem posted often enough to remember the relevant bash-isms, but I do use Python a whole bunch for other things, and the skills map. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 20:50:28 2010 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 16:50:28 -0400 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? In-Reply-To: <20100521204311.GA12643-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> <20100521143811.GC9762@yam.witteman.ca> <20100521204311.GA12643@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4BF6F214.4010808@the-wire.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I agree, but I find that when I write a bit of Python I end up with a > tool I may adapt and reuse, but when I do stuff in bash I don't remember > it as well, and can't reuse it across platforms. The saving grace for > me with Python is that I can take the same tools to Windows or OS X > machines and they still work - more LOC, but more portable too. Me too. The main time I regret my choice is when I have to tangle with something inside /etc/init.d . Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 21:03:06 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 17:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fwd: UG News: *Free to Choose* Ebook Deal of the Day. Any O'Reilly ebook. Only $9.99. In-Reply-To: References: <1274461855.7476.0.211735@post.oreilly.com> Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor | Of possible interest, O'Reilly is doing a special on eBooks, for today only... Thanks. Seems like a very good deal. After looking through their catalogue, I realize that they are not publishing as much good stuff as they used to. These look interesting to me: SQL and Relational Theory Building Embedded Linux Systems 97 Things Every Programmer Should Know Erlang Programming -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 21:14:36 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 17:14:36 -0400 Subject: Fwd: UG News: *Free to Choose* Ebook Deal of the Day. Any O'Reilly ebook. Only $9.99. In-Reply-To: References: <1274461855.7476.0.211735@post.oreilly.com> Message-ID: <4BF6F7BC.5030402@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Colin McGregor > > | Of possible interest, O'Reilly is doing a special on eBooks, for today only... > > Thanks. Seems like a very good deal. > > After looking through their catalogue, I realize that they are not > publishing as much good stuff as they used to. > > These look interesting to me: > SQL and Relational Theory > Building Embedded Linux Systems > 97 Things Every Programmer Should Know > Erlang Programming > I decided to go for this one: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596100582 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 22:13:00 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 18:13:00 -0400 Subject: Tools for processing "template"? Message-ID: <20100521221300.GA5887@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi all, This seems to be recurring task. What tools to you use to process "template"? That is, you have a template file (say, a text file) with bunch of placeholders, and you need to replace those placeholders with actual data (say, generated by script, extracted from other files, calculated by formula, etc). The reason why I'm asking is that getting the "actual data" to insert is not that easy to do in PHP, Perl, or Python, even if I were to write C-extensions to those languages. This could be for many reasons, ie. development time, maintenance/support issue, hardware/system constraint, 3rd-party application quirks, etc. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 23:06:21 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 19:06:21 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: <20100521175646.GH17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091028175403.GB11671@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF6BC9D.5070701@rogers.com> <20100521175646.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BF711ED.40406@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 01:02:21PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> >>> wifi24ds - WEP 128bit 2.4GHz 802.11 b/g guest (firewalled from the >>> | other wifi and hence internet only access). >>> >> Is that guest mode WEP only? Or can it be unencrypted or WPA2? >> > Anything you want. I happen to use it for a Nintendo DS which only > does WEP. > > Does the guest mode have it's own SSID? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 23:21:12 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 19:21:12 -0400 Subject: Tools for processing "template"? In-Reply-To: <20100521221300.GA5887-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100521221300.GA5887@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4BF71568.10102@utoronto.ca> On 05/21/2010 06:13 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > This seems to be recurring task. What tools to you use to process > "template"? > > That is, you have a template file (say, a text file) with bunch of > placeholders, and you need to replace those placeholders with actual > data (say, generated by script, extracted from other files, calculated > by formula, etc). > > The reason why I'm asking is that getting the "actual data" to insert is > not that easy to do in PHP, Perl, or Python, even if I were to write > C-extensions to those languages. This could be for many reasons, ie. > development time, maintenance/support issue, hardware/system constraint, > 3rd-party application quirks, etc. Ask djp, he's been using werc with rc templates to do some pretty cool stuff for linuxcaffe documentation. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 23:24:59 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 19:24:59 -0400 Subject: Tools for processing "template"? In-Reply-To: <20100521221300.GA5887-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100521221300.GA5887@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4BF7164B.4080800@dinamis.com> On 05/21/2010 06:13 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > This seems to be recurring task. What tools to you use to process > "template"? > > That is, you have a template file (say, a text file) with bunch of > placeholders, and you need to replace those placeholders with actual > data (say, generated by script, extracted from other files, calculated > by formula, etc). Django page templates and Cheetah templates are both quite easy to use. > The reason why I'm asking is that getting the "actual data" to insert is > not that easy to do in PHP, Perl, or Python, even if I were to write > C-extensions to those languages. This could be for many reasons, ie. > development time, maintenance/support issue, hardware/system constraint, > 3rd-party application quirks, etc. I don't understand what you mean. The data to fill in the templates could come from anything, a socket, a text file, spreadsheet, database. All of those things can be handled by various programming languages. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 00:37:31 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 20:37:31 -0400 Subject: Tools for processing "template"? In-Reply-To: <20100521221300.GA5887-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100521221300.GA5887@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4BF7274B.10405@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > This seems to be recurring task. What tools to you use to process > "template"? > ... [deleted stuff] Do you have a static set of templates? Are there standard placeholders, or are they different for different templates? Is it for a one-off, or is it to be run repeatedly? Where is the data coming from? Everywhere? What format is it in? All kinds? I think the question is far too vague to get a useful answer. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 01:03:22 2010 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 21:03:22 -0400 Subject: REXX equivalent in (Ubuntu) Linux? In-Reply-To: <4BF695DF.2000901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF695DF.2000901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100521210322.0681778e.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 21 May 2010 10:17:03 -0400 Stephen wrote: > I want to do a big rename of files on my Linux system. > > I have ripped a large number of CD's, and the filenames start with the > track number. But they go 1,2,3 ...10,11,12 > > When my PS3 accesses my (Linux) media server, it sees these as > 10,11,12,1,2.... > > So to get the right order I want to change the files to 01,02,03... > > > The files are in directories: > > /home/stephen/music/*artist*/*album*/filenames > > What should I look at? > > BASH??? Stephen, The computing language for any task is the one you already know. If this were my problem, the solution would be written in Perl. Perl has all sorts of cool text processing commands. There is no problem capturing directories. Redirecting `ls -ld` gives you a list, for starters. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 01:30:42 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 21:30:42 -0400 Subject: Tools for processing "template"? In-Reply-To: <20100521221300.GA5887-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100521221300.GA5887@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: There's more then one way to do it! 1. You could use PHP from the command-line. Yep, you can write PHP scripts as you would with Perl, Python or Ruby. Just start the script with... #!/usr/bin/php -q ...and write al your code between . The command-line arguments will be in $_SERVER['argv']. From then on you can use explode() and implode() (or regexes) to make the substitutions. 2. Perl, of course. 3. You can use many of the classes and gems available for Ruby to deal with this. Everything you can use for the web (ERB seems perfect for your case) is available to use anywhere else. Ruby's string methods are *at least* as good as Perl's. About ERB: http://www.ensta.fr/~diam/ruby/online/ruby-doc-stdlib/libdoc/erb/rdoc/index.html 4. That stands true for Python too, but can be little bit more long-winded if you want t use regular expressions. On the other hand, the string.Formatter is awesome http://docs.python.org/library/string.html 5. You could always use awk or successive calls to sed, but that would be painful and slow. Anyway, if you're a bash fan who likes write-only code and have time to spare, this could be for you! - FZero On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 18:13, William Park wrote: > > Hi all, > > This seems to be recurring task. ?What tools to you use to process > "template"? > > That is, you have a template file (say, a text file) with bunch of > placeholders, and you need to replace those placeholders with actual > data (say, generated by script, extracted from other files, calculated > by formula, etc). > > The reason why I'm asking is that getting the "actual data" to insert is > not that easy to do in PHP, Perl, or Python, even if I were to write > C-extensions to those languages. ?This could be for many reasons, ie. > development time, maintenance/support issue, hardware/system constraint, > 3rd-party application quirks, etc. > > -- > William > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 01:38:56 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 21:38:56 -0400 Subject: Tools for processing "template"? In-Reply-To: References: <20100521221300.GA5887@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: (Sorry, I pressed the send button too soon!) By the way, I can't understand why the data gathering part would be a problem. If you can put it on a file, the process can always be done two steps. If you absolutely can't, pipes are there to be used. On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 21:30, Fabio FZero wrote: > There's more then one way to do it! > > 1. You could use PHP from the command-line. Yep, you can write PHP > scripts as you would with Perl, Python or Ruby. Just start the script > with... > > #!/usr/bin/php -q > > ...and write al your code between . The command-line > arguments will be in $_SERVER['argv']. From then on you can use > explode() and implode() (or regexes) to make the substitutions. > > 2. Perl, of course. > > 3. You can use many of the classes and gems available for Ruby to deal > with this. Everything you can use for the web (ERB seems perfect for > your case) is available to use anywhere else. Ruby's string methods > are *at least* as good as Perl's. > > About ERB: > http://www.ensta.fr/~diam/ruby/online/ruby-doc-stdlib/libdoc/erb/rdoc/index.html > > 4. That stands true for Python too, but can be little bit more > long-winded if you want t use regular expressions. On the other hand, > the string.Formatter is awesome > > http://docs.python.org/library/string.html > > 5. You could always use awk or successive calls to sed, but that would > be painful and slow. Anyway, if you're a bash fan who likes write-only > code and have time to spare, this could be for you! > > - FZero > > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 18:13, William Park wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> This seems to be recurring task. ?What tools to you use to process >> "template"? >> >> That is, you have a template file (say, a text file) with bunch of >> placeholders, and you need to replace those placeholders with actual >> data (say, generated by script, extracted from other files, calculated >> by formula, etc). >> >> The reason why I'm asking is that getting the "actual data" to insert is >> not that easy to do in PHP, Perl, or Python, even if I were to write >> C-extensions to those languages. ?This could be for many reasons, ie. >> development time, maintenance/support issue, hardware/system constraint, >> 3rd-party application quirks, etc. >> >> -- >> William >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 03:43:44 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 23:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Tools for processing "template"? In-Reply-To: <20100521221300.GA5887-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100521221300.GA5887@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: | From: William Park | This seems to be recurring task. What tools to you use to process | "template"? In a sense you are not specific enough (as expressed by others). In another sense, your question might be too specific: you assume that your problem (whatever it is) is best solved by some template system. The old-school UNIX way of doing what you seem to be asking is to use m4 (a macro processor). Only a very few people would recommend that now. But I might use it. m4 is really simple but that means you need to be inventive to use it: the primitives are, well, primitive. People not up to that challenge often tried to abuse the C preprocessor. That really isn't a good idea. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 04:44:28 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 00:44:28 -0400 Subject: Tools for processing "template"? In-Reply-To: <4BF7274B.10405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100521221300.GA5887@node1.opengeometry.net> <4BF7274B.10405@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100522044428.GA6359@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 08:37:31PM -0400, Yanni Chiu wrote: > William Park wrote: > >This seems to be recurring task. What tools to you use to process > >"template"? > >... [deleted stuff] > > Do you have a static set of templates? > Are there standard placeholders, or are they different for different > templates? > Is it for a one-off, or is it to be run repeatedly? > Where is the data coming from? Everywhere? > What format is it in? All kinds? > > I think the question is far too vague to get a useful answer. The template itself is static. But, the final data will be as simple as variable substitutions, or as complicated as firing off a script to run database reports. This "itch" has been bugging me enough that I wouldn't mind patching source code to get what I want (though I would prefer not to). I just want to get a feel for what other people are using. Hopefully, this will give me starting point. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 11:31:47 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 07:31:47 -0400 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? Message-ID: Has anyone read this article "Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu?", if so, what are your thoughts, if you haven't here is a brief excerpt with a link to the full 6 page article to follow: "Often when we are preparing for cross-distribution comparisons or benchmarks of different operating systems (like our recent Mac OS X 10.6 vs. Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu 10.04 benchmarks) we are often asked to include Arch Linux in the mix. This is usually on the basis of including a rolling-release distribution to provide a performance look at a constantly evolving distribution with many of the most recent open-source packages rather than a traditional distribution with packages that may be months older. Many of those requesting Arch be included in our testing mix also claim that Arch performs significantly faster than Ubuntu and our usual test candidates. The main reason we do not deliver many benchmarks of Arch, Gentoo, or other distributions that use a rolling release approach is that they are not very reproducible with their results since their packages are frequently changing and there are more end-user customizations going on compared to most other distributions. However, to test the performance claims of Arch versus others, we have compared the performance of the newest Arch 2010.05 media against Ubuntu Linux." http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_arch_faster&num=1 -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 13:17:36 2010 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 10:17:36 -0300 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It depends.. I'm an Arch user. I love this distro and it's performance. If you're an user who understands your system and knows which services should be running, etc... you won't have this kind of problem with any distro you want. For example.. For default Arch is faster than almost every distro. Why? Because it comes with almost nothing. YOU, and nobody else, will choose what to install.. services, modules, etc... After install almost everything the system will start to be less faster. This new version of ubuntu is much more fast then the others. That's a fact. But in my case, I do still prefer my Arch. After the whole system is up and running (including GUI) Arch still faster IF you don't install a lot of services and modules unnecessary. As I said.. I don't really trust this kind of article sayind that distro X is faster or better than distro Y. It's ALWAYS up to you. You are the user. If you can control and configure your system as you want.. your system will be perfect for your needs. Best regards... --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > Has anyone read this article "Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than > Ubuntu?", if so, what are your thoughts, if you haven't here is a > brief excerpt with a link to the full 6 page article to follow: > > "Often when we are preparing for cross-distribution comparisons or > benchmarks of different operating systems (like our recent Mac OS X > 10.6 vs. Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu 10.04 benchmarks) we are often asked to > include Arch Linux in the mix. This is usually on the basis of > including a rolling-release distribution to provide a performance look > at a constantly evolving distribution with many of the most recent > open-source packages rather than a traditional distribution with > packages that may be months older. Many of those requesting Arch be > included in our testing mix also claim that Arch performs > significantly faster than Ubuntu and our usual test candidates. The > main reason we do not deliver many benchmarks of Arch, Gentoo, or > other distributions that use a rolling release approach is that they > are not very reproducible with their results since their packages are > frequently changing and there are more end-user customizations going > on compared to most other distributions. However, to test the > performance claims of Arch versus others, we have compared the > performance of the newest Arch 2010.05 media against Ubuntu Linux." > > http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_arch_faster&num=1 > > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 12:22:11 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 08:22:11 -0400 Subject: LoneCoder: A Server by Any Other Name Message-ID: <1274530931.10247.3.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Published another Lone Coder article called "A Server by Any Other Name", http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_may2_2010.html "What about choosing a hostname for a computer. This is another problem receiving little time or attention from computer professionals. When the install program displays "Hostname?", a sys admin might spend all of three seconds before typing "anubis" (Wikipedia) and clicking next. Mythological references, cartoon characters, animal names, and allusions to science fiction or fantasy literature are the most popular hostname categories (Web Hosting Top.) Some people do even less, using names like "production1" or even using random numbers like "a14232". I mean, come on, it's just a hostname. Is it worth money or time to decide what makes a good one?..." -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 17:45:36 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 13:45:36 -0400 Subject: LoneCoder: A Server by Any Other Name In-Reply-To: <1274530931.10247.3.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1274530931.10247.3.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: Here at home it's all videogame caracters. It's been Homestar Runner for some time before that. :-) - FZ On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 08:22, Ken Burtch wrote: > > Published another Lone Coder article called "A Server by Any Other > Name", http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_may2_2010.html > > "What about choosing a hostname for a computer. This is another problem > receiving little time or attention from computer professionals. When the > install program displays "Hostname?", a sys admin might spend all of > three seconds before typing "anubis" (Wikipedia) and clicking next. > Mythological references, cartoon characters, animal names, and allusions > to science fiction or fantasy literature are the most popular hostname > categories (Web Hosting Top.) Some people do even less, using names like > "production1" or even using random numbers like "a14232". I mean, come > on, it's just a hostname. Is it worth money or time to decide what makes > a good one?..." > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ken O. Burtch ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Phone: 905-562-0848 > ?"Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 18:08:20 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 14:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: interesting hackable device? Message-ID: I've just stumbled on this and have not looked into it at all. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 18:09:43 2010 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 22:09:43 +0400 Subject: GPRS on Linux? Message-ID: <4BF81DE7.2050604@gmail.com> Anyone has experience? Not that I can not find info by googling. But a one or two voices based on practical experience could encourage me to go that way. I am, as you may remember, in Russia. Now I use DSL, but must change the place of living. I am not sure if at the new place a telephone or TV cable can be made. In general. GPRS is available here, often at high speeds and costs are reasonable. But... are there no problems using it on linux? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 19:15:49 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 15:15:49 -0400 Subject: interesting hackable device? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Around $100 for a wifi device with an 18cm screen which can run some portion of the Android app base is interesting, for sure. It's not evident that there's a way to get at the direct code base (e.g. - so one might customize at lower layers as can be done with Android projects such as CyanogenMod). Without that, it seems more like mere curiosity to me. (And that includes an implication of "it runs Linux" also being a curiosity largely devoid of relevance.) I fully expect to see lots more of these, and better, if iPad demonstrates a market. My inclination is to wait for more eye-popping options, but I do watch with interest. I noticed it independently. On May 22, 2010 2:08 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: < http://forums.redflagdeals.com/dxa-7-google-android-1-6-tablet-ebook-reader-music-pictures-109usd-shipped-892851/ > I've just stumbled on this and have not looked into it at all. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun May 23 09:49:45 2010 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 05:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] How to Diagnose Problem Inboud Connect Through Router? In-Reply-To: <20100521142237.GB9762-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF52BD7.8000602@rogers.com> <4BF55D32.2050302@rogers.com> <20100521142237.GB9762@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2010, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 03:55:47AM -0400, Eric Battersby wrote: > >Is there a way to configure SSHD to require both the private key > >and a remote password? > > You make sure that you only create keys that are themselves encrypted > and require a password. Puttygen for Windows can help you with this, > otherwise when you generate your key pair, be sure to require a > password. That way a password is required, but never transmitted over > the wire. Thanks, but I know about using a local password. That's why I asked about a remote password. -- Eric B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sun May 23 19:49:56 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 15:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: into embedded linux? free electrons is now on twitter Message-ID: a couple internet-type colleagues of mine run the embedded linux site and training/consulting organization http://free-electrons.com, and i just browbeat one of them into registering on twitter: https://twitter.com/free_electrons (note "_", not "-" in name). so if you're on twitter and that sort of thing interests you, follow them. the more followers they have, the more it will guilt them into tweeting stuff. :-) rday disclaimer: i'm about to start working with them in updating some of their online docs. but you should take them seriously, anyway. -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 24 13:47:19 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 09:47:19 -0400 Subject: interesting hackable device? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is a link to the first readily acquirable ARM-based laptop that I've seen: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39391 The huge oddity is that it comes with Wince; that seems likely to be remarkably unuseful, as there aren't terribly many apps deployed there. It's not terribly powerful, with just a 266MHz CPU, which seems slower than what's being deployed on phones these days. It is entirely possible that this will be wiped from interest by devices that followup the Eken M001. (Which is the one that Hugh referenced, which *is* capable of hosting Debian and a cut-down Ubuntu.) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 24 15:26:34 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 11:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: interesting hackable device? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | Here is a link to the first readily acquirable ARM-based laptop that I've seen: | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39391 It's really unfortunate for us that all this hardware innovation seems to happen on a distant continent in a distant language. I don't see a good way for us to participate in the process as anything other than consumers. First things I'd change if I could: - clearer hardware specs - more open firmware - smaller bezels - at least the option of more generous RAM - community liaison I don't really know what Android is. Linux kernel but completely different and unique userland? There seem to be a lot of half-promising hardware platforms coming out of Shenzhen (just across the non-border from Hong Kong). ================ I just bought a Kobo. One of the promising things is that the software (to some extent) is done in Toronto. They even advertise for a Scrum Master. The "About" screen goes on for pages and pages. The bulk is a copy of the LGPL and GPL. Although it is thought to be running Linux, Linux isn't listed there. I've not found where they distribute the source that they are required to. It might be hackable some day. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 24 15:50:51 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 11:50:51 -0400 Subject: interesting hackable device? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <515eedb6c18569c1aa097c1658378e43.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> How about this? http://netbook-review.com/pandora/pandora/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_(console) Apparently available for $330. We keep an eye on these things as possible platforms for our instruments. The usual stumbling blocks are screen size and the ability to run Tcl/Tk, which requires large storage. Peter Who top posts *deliberately* ;) > | From: Christopher Browne > > | Here is a link to the first readily acquirable ARM-based laptop that > I've seen: > | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39391 > > It's really unfortunate for us that all this hardware innovation seems > to happen on a distant continent in a distant language. I don't see a > good way for us to participate in the process as anything other than > consumers. > > First things I'd change if I could: > > - clearer hardware specs > > - more open firmware > > - smaller bezels > > - at least the option of more generous RAM > > - community liaison > > I don't really know what Android is. Linux kernel but completely > different and unique userland? > > There seem to be a lot of half-promising hardware platforms coming out > of Shenzhen (just across the non-border from Hong Kong). > > ================ > > I just bought a Kobo. One of the promising things is that the > software (to some extent) is done in Toronto. They even advertise for > a Scrum Master. > > The "About" screen goes on for pages and pages. The bulk is a copy of > the LGPL and GPL. Although it is thought to be running Linux, Linux > isn't listed there. I've not found where they distribute the source > that they are required to. > > It might be hackable some day. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 24 18:41:38 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 14:41:38 -0400 Subject: Britain's Digital Economy Act (long) Message-ID: <4947bf8b4411d1288dbcc3656fe7d7c8.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Today in Daily Kos: http://dailykos.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Britain's Digital Economy Act is coming to America by brooklynbadboy Mon May 24, 2010 at 07:00:03 AM PDT It didn't make much news on this side of the pond, but one of the most significant pieces of legislation in the digital era was passed in the United Kingdom just prior to the recent national election. It is called the Digital Economy Act, pushed by a powerful coalition of media interests. It is a sweeping piece of legislation. Notably, its odious provisions are headed for America and the world. The Electronic Frontier Foundation recently noted: The Digital Economy Bill has been the subject of heavy entertainment industry lobbying and widespread concern amongst U.K. citizens and telecommunications companies because it included provisions that would allow the U.K. government to censor websites considered "likely to be used for or in connection with an activity that infringes copyright," and disconnect the Internet connection of any household in the U.K. with an IP address alleged to have engaged in copyright infringement. That means YOU, Wikileaks. Other powers granted by the new law include: * Although proof is required before disconnection, the evidence does not have to relate to you: you can be punished for the actions of a friend or even a neighbour who has used your Internet connection. * Rights holders could have the power to demand that sites they believe to contravene copyright law be blocked by ISPs. Right now, we don't know what the govrnment will propose, as they have yet to draft their new proposal. * As it is not the perpetrator that is punished, as you might expect, but the owner of the connection, and others using it, caf?s and bars may have to stop providing wifi. You could go to your local coffeeshop tea room and use their WiFi. Some other user at that shop is using BitTorrent or some other P2P software to download music or a movie. Under the DEA, that WiFi network can be disconnected from the internet. Permanently. More ominously, if a right holder, such as News Corp. or Halliburton believes that certain websites are likely to be used to publish copywritten materials, that website can be blocked from the internet. Whoa. Not an actual incident of copyright infringement, but the likeliness of it happening allows the holder of that copyright to request that website's ISP block it. For more analysis of the law and its implications, read this. Similar provisions included in the DEA are being negotiated, in secret, by a consortium of nations in a new trade agreement called the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement. The United States is part of the negotiations which recently concluded their eighth round in New Zealand. Thanks to pressure from civil society and privacy activists, the first public draft of the new law is available. The draft provisions look remarkably like the DEA: In civil judicial proceedings concerning the enforcement of [copyright or related rights and trademarks] [intellectual property rights], each Party shall provide that its judicial authorities shall have the authority [subject to any statutory limitations under its domestic law] to issue [against the infringer an injunction aimed at prohibiting the continuation of the] [an order to a party to desist from an] infringement, including an order to prevent infringing goods from entering into the channels of commerce [and to prevent their exportation]. [2. The Parties [may] shall also ensure that right holders are in a position to apply for an injunction against [infringing] intermediaries whose services are used by a third party to infringe an intellectual property right.8]9 What this legalese means is every party to the trade agreement must adopt policies that give "judicial authorities" the authority to not only go after the person who infringes on the copyright at the behest of the right holder, but also against "intermediaries." That could mean ISPs. That could mean your unsecured WiFi network. That could mean sites that act as publishing platforms for the general public. And then there is this: [X. Each Party shall provide that its judicial authorities shall have the authority, at the request of the applicant, to issue an interlocutory injunction intended to prevent any imminent infringement of an intellectual property right [copyright or related rights or trademark]. An interlocutory injunction may also be issued, under the same conditions, against an [infringing] intermediary whose services are being used by a third party to infringe an intellectual property right. Each Party shall also provide that provisional measures may be issued, even before the commencement of proceedings on the merits, to preserve relevant evidence in respect of the alleged infringement. Such measures may include inter alia the detailed description, the taking of samples or the physical seizure of documents or of the infringing goods.] 1. Each Party shall [provide][ensure] that its judicial authorities [shall ]act [expeditiously][ on requests] for provisional measures inaudita altera parte, and shall endeavor to make a decision[ on such requests] without undue delay, except in exceptional cases. Emphasis mine. Now, it seems reasonable to me that courts should have the power to issue injunctions to prevent imminent infringement by a copyright abuser. But to also grant the power to disconnect intermediaries, seize evidence inter alia of said intermediaries, and to do it all ex parte is beyond odious. This is all being done in the name of ending online software and content piracy, which is certainly a reasonable goal. This response, however, is draconian. Since it is expensive to go after each and every person who downloads a music file for free, the media conglomerates must slowdown or shutdown any network where it is or might possibly take place. This will have the effect of forcing ISPs to police what their users are doing and that is where the Internet experience start to feel like watching cable: lots of stuff on but nothing worth seeing. The EFF strongly opposes ACTA much as it opposed the awful Digital Economy Act in Britian. Liberal Democrat leader, now Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg promised to repeal it if elected. However, the new Conservative minister responsible for the law has made it clear it is here to stay. You can take action against ACTA by first fighting for sunlight. Oh...almost forgot: Because ACTA is being negotiated as anExecutive Agreement, it will not be subject to the Congressional oversight mechanisms that have applied to recent bilateral free trade agreements, even though it appears likely to have a far greater impact on the global knowledge economy than any of those. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 10:35:09 2010 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 06:35:09 -0400 Subject: Upgrade to Ubuntu 10.4 results in failure to boot into Windows Message-ID: <1274783709.2018.7.camel@aragorn> Hello Over the weekend, I upgraded my Linux partition to Ubuntu 10.4, and now I am finding that while grub acknowledges my Windows partition and lists it in the boot menu; and while I can mount my windows partition and see the files (/dev/sda1), choosing windows results in a blinking cursor on the top left of the screen, with nothing happening. I can still reboot with CTRL+ALT+DEL. I recall, when first upgrading, answering some installation questions about grub that I wasn't ready for (in other words, I wasn't careful). As a result, I am not sure of what got written to the MBR. Any help would be appreciated. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 14:23:43 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 10:23:43 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: <4BF711ED.40406-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091028175403.GB11671@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF6BC9D.5070701@rogers.com> <20100521175646.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF711ED.40406@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100525142343.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 07:06:21PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 01:02:21PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> >>> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >>> >>>> wifi24ds - WEP 128bit 2.4GHz 802.11 b/g guest (firewalled from the >>>> | other wifi and hence internet only access). >>>> >>> Is that guest mode WEP only? Or can it be unencrypted or WPA2? >>> >> Anything you want. I happen to use it for a Nintendo DS which only >> does WEP. >> >> > Does the guest mode have it's own SSID? Yes. Mine are currently: wifi5, wifi24 and wifi24ds. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 14:33:25 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 10:33:25 -0400 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 10:17:36AM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > It depends.. > > I'm an Arch user. I love this distro and it's performance. If you're an user > who understands your system and knows which services should be running, > etc... you won't have this kind of problem with any distro you want. > > For example.. For default Arch is faster than almost every distro. Why? > Because it comes with almost nothing. YOU, and nobody else, will choose what > to install.. services, modules, etc... Debian does the same. A base install has nothing but a base system. A distribution would have to come up with one incredibly good packaging system to make ot move away from debian. Every distribution change I have done over the years has been to move to a system with a better package manager and better quality. I have stuck with Debian for 11 years now. I am sure some day I will move to something even better, but I haven't seen anything even approach it yet. > After install almost everything the system will start to be less faster. > > This new version of ubuntu is much more fast then the others. That's a fact. > But in my case, I do still prefer my Arch. After the whole system is up and > running (including GUI) Arch still faster IF you don't install a lot of > services and modules unnecessary. Maybe gcc 4.5 is actually an improvement. Or maybe the newer kernel is. As for not installing things you don't need, well of course. That should be true of any distribution. Some just have better default choices than others. > As I said.. I don't really trust this kind of article sayind that distro X > is faster or better than distro Y. It's ALWAYS up to you. You are the user. > If you can control and configure your system as you want.. your system will > be perfect for your needs. This particular article seems to show very clearly that they are the same speed, as any person with a clue would have expected. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 14:40:35 2010 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:40:35 -0300 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20100525143325.GJ17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: That's true Lennart. That's why I didn't say that Arch is better.. or ubuntu is better... As I said (and you agree) depends on how do you use your system. You said you do like to try new distros and new package managements. Well, did you try Arch? You should try it. It's a nice distro and I'm sure you will not be disappointed with our package manager (pacman). It's really good. I'm also an Debian fan. I'm an network administrator and all the servers here (company) are running Debian. But in my laptop I do prefer Arch.Give it a chance. ;] Best Regards, --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 10:17:36AM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > It depends.. > > > > I'm an Arch user. I love this distro and it's performance. If you're an > user > > who understands your system and knows which services should be running, > > etc... you won't have this kind of problem with any distro you want. > > > > For example.. For default Arch is faster than almost every distro. Why? > > Because it comes with almost nothing. YOU, and nobody else, will choose > what > > to install.. services, modules, etc... > > Debian does the same. A base install has nothing but a base system. > A distribution would have to come up with one incredibly good packaging > system to make ot move away from debian. Every distribution change I have > done over the years has been to move to a system with a better package > manager and better quality. I have stuck with Debian for 11 years now. > I am sure some day I will move to something even better, but I haven't > seen anything even approach it yet. > > > After install almost everything the system will start to be less faster. > > > > This new version of ubuntu is much more fast then the others. That's a > fact. > > But in my case, I do still prefer my Arch. After the whole system is up > and > > running (including GUI) Arch still faster IF you don't install a lot of > > services and modules unnecessary. > > Maybe gcc 4.5 is actually an improvement. Or maybe the newer kernel is. > > As for not installing things you don't need, well of course. That should > be true of any distribution. Some just have better default choices > than others. > > > As I said.. I don't really trust this kind of article sayind that distro > X > > is faster or better than distro Y. It's ALWAYS up to you. You are the > user. > > If you can control and configure your system as you want.. your system > will > > be perfect for your needs. > > This particular article seems to show very clearly that they are the > same speed, as any person with a clue would have expected. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 14:56:04 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 10:56:04 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: <20100525142343.GI17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091028175403.GB11671@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF6BC9D.5070701@rogers.com> <20100521175646.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF711ED.40406@rogers.com> <20100525142343.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BFBE504.6050905@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> Does the guest mode have it's own SSID? >> > Yes. > > Mine are currently: wifi5, wifi24 and wifi24ds. > > Why the different SSIDs for the 2 bands? When I've set up dual band access points, I've always used the same SSID to make things easier for the users. When I've configured multiple SSIDs, they connected to different VLANs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 15:12:02 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:12:02 -0400 Subject: OT: Email recall - What was the point? Message-ID: Hi Once in a while, I get to assist someone who need recalling a mail. I have never seen one work. Personally, I would not even bother with it. However, it look like everybody know about the feature which mean it was well marketed, so the best way is to attempt it so that the user does not blame us for not attempting it. Which bring the question, why did Microsoft ever place such a useless feature on their application? When was it ever able to work? I suspect it was only for local mail, but they should have put the disclaimer along the feature Anyway, not really a question, but a morning rant. William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 15:25:58 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:25:58 -0400 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:40:35AM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > That's true Lennart. > > That's why I didn't say that Arch is better.. or ubuntu is better... > > As I said (and you agree) depends on how do you use your system. > > You said you do like to try new distros and new package managements. Well, > did you try Arch? You should try it. It's a nice distro and I'm sure you > will not be disappointed with our package manager (pacman). It's really > good. I'm also an Debian fan. I'm an network administrator and all the > servers here (company) are running Debian. But in my laptop I do prefer > Arch.Give it a chance. ;] Having just read the installation instructions, it reminds me too much of installing SLS (the first distribution I ever installed). Way too much manual work which shouldn't be necesary. I think I fundamentally disagree with the premise. Certainly the description of "The Arch Way", makes me not even want to try installing it in a KVM session. Their aim is wrong. I have no need to go back to the way things were 17 years ago. Anyone thinking modern distributions (of which apparently Arch Linux is NOT one) are too complex simply doesn't understand how they work and hence would not be able to make a better system. Simpler is not better. Simpler is just simpler. To me the key of a distribution is: Don't make me (and ever other user) do something trivial that the package maintainer (who knows the package better than most of the users) could have already done automatically. It is inefficient and a waste of time. This is not to say that you should do what windows does and make it imposible for the user to get at the details and do it themselves if they want to. Also I don't believe in optimizing for i686, given the amount of hardware I have that won't run that. Never mind being x86 only (which would also be a big problem for me). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 15:27:49 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:27:49 -0400 Subject: OT: Email recall - What was the point? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100525152749.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:12:02AM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Once in a while, I get to assist someone who need recalling a mail. I > have never seen one work. Personally, I would not even bother with it. > However, it look like everybody know about the feature which mean it > was well marketed, so the best way is to attempt it so that the user > does not blame us for not attempting it. > > Which bring the question, why did Microsoft ever place such a useless > feature on their application? When was it ever able to work? I > suspect it was only for local mail, but they should have put the > disclaimer along the feature > > Anyway, not really a question, but a morning rant. I have only ever heard of the feature on outlook, so yes it almost certainly only works with exchange and probably only locally. Users really ought to clue into the fact that once you send an email, it is sent and there is no undo or recall because it is now on someone elses server and it isn't your decision anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 15:30:12 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:30:12 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: <4BFBE504.6050905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091028175403.GB11671@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF6BC9D.5070701@rogers.com> <20100521175646.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF711ED.40406@rogers.com> <20100525142343.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFBE504.6050905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100525153012.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:56:04AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> >>> Does the guest mode have it's own SSID? >>> >> Yes. >> >> Mine are currently: wifi5, wifi24 and wifi24ds. >> >> > Why the different SSIDs for the 2 bands? When I've set up dual band > access points, I've always used the same SSID to make things easier for > the users. When I've configured multiple SSIDs, they connected to > different VLANs. Because using one is a @#$#@$@# pain in the ass. It is hard to control which band you connect to from the client if the SSID is the same. I want the 5GHz connection, even if the 2.4GHz has a better signal strength. Signal strength doesn't matter, the 5GHz is way faster and more reliable. Screw signal strength. Anyone assigning one SSID for both is clueless. So you are completely wrong. Using one SSID makes it harder for the user. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 15:32:37 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:32:37 -0400 Subject: Tools for processing "template"? In-Reply-To: <20100522044428.GA6359-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100521221300.GA5887@node1.opengeometry.net> <4BF7274B.10405@rogers.com> <20100522044428.GA6359@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100525153237.GN17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 12:44:28AM -0400, William Park wrote: > The template itself is static. But, the final data will be as simple as > variable substitutions, or as complicated as firing off a script to > run database reports. > > This "itch" has been bugging me enough that I wouldn't mind patching > source code to get what I want (though I would prefer not to). I just > want to get a feel for what other people are using. Hopefully, this > will give me starting point. I am not a big fan of XML myself, but some people think XSLT (and hence xsltproc) is great for applying templates to formated data. It can do some quite impressive stuff I must admit. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 15:39:37 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:39:37 -0400 Subject: OT: Email recall - What was the point? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BFBEF39.9000908@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > Which bring the question, why did Microsoft ever place such a useless > feature on their application? When was it ever able to work? The useful scenario I've seen is where an email is sent out to a large group (e.g. company wide), but there's wrong information or missing/wrong attachment. People who've already read the email before the recall, will have it in their inbox. Others, who have not yet retrieved the email, will never know of the incorrect version, and won't be bothered with the incorrect information. If the mistake is caught and fixed early, only a small percentage of the 100's or more recipients will see the mistake. -- Yanni -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 15:44:13 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:44:13 -0400 Subject: OT: Email recall - What was the point? In-Reply-To: <4BFBEF39.9000908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFBEF39.9000908@rogers.com> Message-ID: Well, gmail has "Undo send", but it only works for 5 seconds after you hit send (more if you configure is differently). Anyway this is *completely* different from recalling an email after it has been sent - and totally useless if you send something like... To: all-//Bz/+gSJx1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org From: me-//Bz/+gSJx1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Subject: UR ALL ASSHOLEZ! LOLZ! - FZ On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:39, Yanni Chiu wrote: > William Muriithi wrote: >> >> Which bring the question, why did Microsoft ever place such a useless >> feature on their application? When was it ever able to work? > > The useful scenario I've seen is where an email is sent out to a large group > (e.g. company wide), but there's wrong information or missing/wrong > attachment. People who've already read the email before the recall, will > have it in their inbox. Others, who have not yet retrieved the email, will > never know of the incorrect version, and won't be bothered with the > incorrect information. > > If the mistake is caught and fixed early, only a small percentage of the > 100's or more recipients will see the mistake. > > -- > Yanni > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 15:49:28 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:49:28 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: <20100525153012.GM17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091028175403.GB11671@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF6BC9D.5070701@rogers.com> <20100521175646.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF711ED.40406@rogers.com> <20100525142343.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFBE504.6050905@rogers.com> <20100525153012.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BFBF188.8090107@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > So you are completely wrong. Using one SSID makes it harder for the user. > > When I've set up dual band equipment, it has been for business customers, where the user shouldn't have to know about the WiFi bands. As I mentioned in the other note, when I use multiple IDs, it's to connect for different VLANs, as some places may have for staff & visitor use. The visitor SSID & VLAN is configured to be similar to that guest mode, where the visitors can only access the internet and not the corporate LAN. > I want > the 5GHz connection, even if the 2.4GHz has a better signal strength It's been my experience that the band is chosen according to the order of the connection in the connection list. However, this experience has only been with Windows, as I haven't had the occasion to try it in Linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 16:22:36 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 12:22:36 -0400 Subject: OT: Email recall - What was the point? In-Reply-To: References: <4BFBEF39.9000908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100525122236.75501791.tleslie@tcn.net> i would love that option of undo in gmail, as sometimes some key slip i make sends the email before i am finished, but i looked for the setting you mentioned, and can't find it. ??? tl On Tue, 25 May 2010 11:44:13 -0400 Fabio FZero wrote: > Well, gmail has "Undo send", but it only works for 5 seconds after you > hit send (more if you configure is differently). Anyway this is > *completely* different from recalling an email after it has been sent > - and totally useless if you send something like... > > To: all-//Bz/+gSJx1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > From: me-//Bz/+gSJx1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > Subject: UR ALL ASSHOLEZ! LOLZ! > > - FZ > > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:39, Yanni Chiu wrote: > > William Muriithi wrote: > >> > >> Which bring the question, why did Microsoft ever place such a useless > >> feature on their application? When was it ever able to work? > > > > The useful scenario I've seen is where an email is sent out to a large group > > (e.g. company wide), but there's wrong information or missing/wrong > > attachment. People who've already read the email before the recall, will > > have it in their inbox. Others, who have not yet retrieved the email, will > > never know of the incorrect version, and won't be bothered with the > > incorrect information. > > > > If the mistake is caught and fixed early, only a small percentage of the > > 100's or more recipients will see the mistake. > > > > -- > > Yanni > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 16:32:49 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 12:32:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Email recall - What was the point? In-Reply-To: <20100525122236.75501791.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFBEF39.9000908@rogers.com> <20100525122236.75501791.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: When I designed a workorder system for Ontario schools a few years ago, one of the features I urged them to accept was a 15 minute delay after creating a workorder or memo. While the workorder/memo was queued, the user could re-edit it or cancel it. After 15 minutes, the workorder was forwarded for approval by the work dispatcher or the memo was delivered. The 15 minute delay really insignificant in the response time to sending a repairman to the school. Sometimes I think that software is designed to run as fast as possible and not enough thought is given to the human factors. I wish email, facebook, etc. all had a 15 minute delay. Ken B. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken at pegasoft.ca Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 25 May 2010, ted leslie wrote: > i would love that option of undo in gmail, as sometimes some key slip i make sends the email before i am finished, > but i looked for the setting you mentioned, and can't find it. ??? > > tl > > On Tue, 25 May 2010 11:44:13 -0400 > Fabio FZero wrote: > >> Well, gmail has "Undo send", but it only works for 5 seconds after you >> hit send (more if you configure is differently). Anyway this is >> *completely* different from recalling an email after it has been sent >> - and totally useless if you send something like... >> >> To: all-//Bz/+gSJx1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org >> From: me-//Bz/+gSJx1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org >> Subject: UR ALL ASSHOLEZ! LOLZ! >> >> - FZ >> >> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:39, Yanni Chiu wrote: >>> William Muriithi wrote: >>>> >>>> Which bring the question, why did Microsoft ever place such a useless >>>> feature on their application? When was it ever able to work? >>> >>> The useful scenario I've seen is where an email is sent out to a large group >>> (e.g. company wide), but there's wrong information or missing/wrong >>> attachment. People who've already read the email before the recall, will >>> have it in their inbox. Others, who have not yet retrieved the email, will >>> never know of the incorrect version, and won't be bothered with the >>> incorrect information. >>> >>> If the mistake is caught and fixed early, only a small percentage of the >>> 100's or more recipients will see the mistake. >>> >>> -- >>> Yanni >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > ted leslie > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 16:35:08 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 12:35:08 -0400 Subject: OT: Email recall - What was the point? In-Reply-To: <20100525122236.75501791.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFBEF39.9000908@rogers.com> <20100525122236.75501791.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: It's a Lab feature, you have to activate it. Just go to settings, activate Labs and find it among the gazillions of addons (some of them are pretty cool BTW). - FZ On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 12:22, ted leslie wrote: > i would love that option of undo in gmail, as sometimes some key slip i make sends the email before i am finished, > but i looked for the setting you mentioned, and can't find it. ??? > > tl > > On Tue, 25 May 2010 11:44:13 -0400 > Fabio FZero wrote: > >> Well, gmail has "Undo send", but it only works for 5 seconds after you >> hit send (more if you configure is differently). Anyway this is >> *completely* different from recalling an email after it has been sent >> - and totally useless if you send something like... >> >> To: all-//Bz/+gSJx1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org >> From: me-//Bz/+gSJx1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org >> Subject: UR ALL ASSHOLEZ! LOLZ! >> >> - FZ >> >> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:39, Yanni Chiu wrote: >> > William Muriithi wrote: >> >> >> >> Which bring the question, why did Microsoft ever place such a useless >> >> feature on their application? When was it ever able to work? >> > >> > The useful scenario I've seen is where an email is sent out to a large group >> > (e.g. company wide), but there's wrong information or missing/wrong >> > attachment. People who've already read the email before the recall, will >> > have it in their inbox. Others, who have not yet retrieved the email, will >> > never know of the incorrect version, and won't be bothered with the >> > incorrect information. >> > >> > If the mistake is caught and fixed early, only a small percentage of the >> > 100's or more recipients will see the mistake. >> > >> > -- >> > Yanni >> > -- >> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > ted leslie > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 16:43:18 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 12:43:18 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: <4BFBF188.8090107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091028175403.GB11671@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF6BC9D.5070701@rogers.com> <20100521175646.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF711ED.40406@rogers.com> <20100525142343.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFBE504.6050905@rogers.com> <20100525153012.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFBF188.8090107@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100525164318.GO17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:49:28AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > When I've set up dual band equipment, it has been for business > customers, where the user shouldn't have to know about the WiFi bands. > As I mentioned in the other note, when I use multiple IDs, it's to > connect for different VLANs, as some places may have for staff & visitor > use. The visitor SSID & VLAN is configured to be similar to that guest > mode, where the visitors can only access the internet and not the > corporate LAN. The guest mode certainly makes sense. I do not think roaming between 2.4 and 5ghz makes any sense though. They are very different. > It's been my experience that the band is chosen according to the order > of the connection in the connection list. However, this experience has > only been with Windows, as I haven't had the occasion to try it in Linux. Well with linux I have found it imposible to connect to the 5ghz band when the same SSID is used simply because network-manager or whatever decided always picked the highest signal strength (which is pretty much always 2.4ghz). So yes if you want automatic roaming, it can be handy, but on the other hand some devices only do 2.4ghz so they would get no benefit, and you are making it imposible for a user to specificly choose the better band. Perhaps in a corporate setting there won't be any interfering networks close by, but at a home there certainly is. I remember at the linux symposium last year the wifi had both bands and used one SSID for both bands on the whole network. There was no way to get it to connect to the 5ghz band. The 2.4ghz band was flacky and very busy, so the 5ghz band would have been much nicer to use, but there simple was no way to convince linux to connect to the 5ghz band instead. Extremely annoying. Sure network-manager and such should perhaps be made better to allow a way to force the specific connection to use rather than just using the SSID, but so far that doesn't seem to have happened. Until clients unversilally have a good way to choose, using the same SSID for both bands essentially just throws away the 5ghz band because no one will ever be able to connect to it because it almost always has a lower apparenty signal strength -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 17:05:55 2010 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 14:05:55 -0300 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20100525152558.GK17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Well.. I do respect your opinion.. But the principle of Arch isn't only to make it difficult to install.. As I told on my last speech in FLISOL ( Latin American Free Software Instalation Festival )... Arch is a great Linux School. For people who whanna learn Linux it's good choice. I don't mean people should stay the whole life using Arch. But, you'll have to agree that in one installation of Arch you'll learn more about linux than in 10 installations of Ubuntu, for example. I'm not saying that one is better than the other... I'm just saying that Arch's installation isn't very easy because of that. To instigate people to navigate, search, study, etc.. As I told you before.. I'm a big fan of Debian. Is my favorite distro for servers.. but in my laptop I do still prefer Arch. The installation isn't so simple like other distros.. you're right.. But, after the whole system is done.. you'll realize the differences between Arch and other distros. A great example of this is the AUR (aur.archlinux.org). A community repo where everyone can put their own packages for everyone who wants to try. Anyway.. as I told you before.. I didn't want to start a flamewar... I'll never say that distro X is better than distro Y.. The best distro, in my opinion, is the one you uses and solve your problems. cheers, --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:40:35AM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > That's true Lennart. > > > > That's why I didn't say that Arch is better.. or ubuntu is better... > > > > As I said (and you agree) depends on how do you use your system. > > > > You said you do like to try new distros and new package managements. > Well, > > did you try Arch? You should try it. It's a nice distro and I'm sure you > > will not be disappointed with our package manager (pacman). It's really > > good. I'm also an Debian fan. I'm an network administrator and all the > > servers here (company) are running Debian. But in my laptop I do prefer > > Arch.Give it a chance. ;] > > Having just read the installation instructions, it reminds me too much > of installing SLS (the first distribution I ever installed). Way too > much manual work which shouldn't be necesary. > > I think I fundamentally disagree with the premise. Certainly the > description of "The Arch Way", makes me not even want to try installing > it in a KVM session. Their aim is wrong. I have no need to go back to > the way things were 17 years ago. Anyone thinking modern distributions > (of which apparently Arch Linux is NOT one) are too complex simply > doesn't understand how they work and hence would not be able to make a > better system. Simpler is not better. Simpler is just simpler. > > To me the key of a distribution is: > Don't make me (and ever other user) do something trivial that the package > maintainer (who knows the package better than most of the users) could > have already done automatically. It is inefficient and a waste of time. > This is not to say that you should do what windows does and make it > imposible for the user to get at the details and do it themselves if > they want to. > > Also I don't believe in optimizing for i686, given the amount of hardware > I have that won't run that. Never mind being x86 only (which would also > be a big problem for me). > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 17:16:21 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 13:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Email recall - What was the point? In-Reply-To: <20100525122236.75501791.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFBEF39.9000908@rogers.com> <20100525122236.75501791.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 May 2010, ted leslie wrote: > i would love that option of undo in gmail, as sometimes some key slip i > make sends the email before i am finished, but i looked for the setting > you mentioned, and can't find it. ??? If I'm writing an email and accidental sending is simply not acceptable (eg a really serious email that I'm taking a long time to write) then I don't address it until I'm done. I'll leave To: and CC: unset. If I managed to fumble finger and try to send it, it won't go anywhere. As to recall of emails itself, I can see the attraction but it is worth noting that there is no way to guarantee that the MTA has actually removed the email rather than just telling you that it has. It could leave it in the inbox or it could remove it from the inbox and archive a copy for the sysadmin. This need not be malicious - it is easy to have an MTA like Postfix keep a copy of all email that passes through. The recall function would need to know about every copy and be able to remove it. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 17:38:57 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 13:38:57 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: <20100525164318.GO17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091028175403.GB11671@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF6BC9D.5070701@rogers.com> <20100521175646.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF711ED.40406@rogers.com> <20100525142343.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFBE504.6050905@rogers.com> <20100525153012.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFBF188.8090107@rogers.com> <20100525164318.GO17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BFC0B31.7030700@utoronto.ca> On 05/25/2010 12:43 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I remember at the linux symposium last year the wifi had both bands and > used one SSID for both bands on the whole network. There was no way > to get it to connect to the 5ghz band. The 2.4ghz band was flacky and > very busy, so the 5ghz band would have been much nicer to use, but there > simple was no way to convince linux to connect to the 5ghz band instead. > Extremely annoying. Sure network-manager and such should perhaps be > made better to allow a way to force the specific connection to use rather > than just using the SSID, but so far that doesn't seem to have happened. > Until clients unversilally have a good way to choose, using the same > SSID for both bands essentially just throws away the 5ghz band because > no one will ever be able to connect to it because it almost always has > a lower apparenty signal strength If you use iwconfig you can set the channel, e.g. "iwconfig wlan0 channel 52" Try that before setting the essid with network-manager. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 17:41:33 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 13:41:33 -0400 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100525174133.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 02:05:55PM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Well.. I do respect your opinion.. > But the principle of Arch isn't only to make it difficult to install.. > > As I told on my last speech in FLISOL ( Latin American Free Software > Instalation Festival )... Arch is a great Linux School. For people who > whanna learn Linux it's good choice. I don't mean people should stay the > whole life using Arch. But, you'll have to agree that in one installation of > Arch you'll learn more about linux than in 10 installations of Ubuntu, for > example. I'm not saying that one is better than the other... I'm just saying > that Arch's installation isn't very easy because of that. To instigate > people to navigate, search, study, etc.. The thing is that I don't believe being forced to deal with all the details up front is a good way to learn. In fact I think it just puts most people off. It also doesn't show you how things could be done better (by in fact automating things). How is leraning good design practices not a good thing? A simplestic system doesn't teach you that. The assumption that making the user do everything (often following a written set of instructions) somehow teaches them something beneficial is highly suspect. I don't buy it. Sure some people feel that by doing a thousand steps, they must have done something complicated themselves, rather than just clicking a button that did all those steps for them. It doesn't mean they actually learned anything. It does mean they just spent a lot of time doing a thousand steps. So I do in fact consider designs like Arch Linux harmful. Gentoo too. I am not quite sure about Linux From Scratch yet. It seems to have different goals than actually being a distribution. > As I told you before.. I'm a big fan of Debian. Is my favorite distro for > servers.. but in my laptop I do still prefer Arch. > > The installation isn't so simple like other distros.. you're right.. But, > after the whole system is done.. you'll realize the differences between Arch > and other distros. A great example of this is the AUR (aur.archlinux.org). A > community repo where everyone can put their own packages for everyone who > wants to try. Anyone that wants to can put up a web site with packages for debian or ubuntu as well (many people have). Sure it isn't a single community site. Of course Debian is a community with thousands of developers putting up packages, so to some extent it doesn't need a seperate site for that. Also a community package site could be done on any distribution, so it isn't as such a feature of the distribution. It is a feature of the community. You can have a great community around a crappy distribution. Doesn't make the distribution good, just makes the community good (even if one might think they are a bit misguided spending their effort on such a distribution). > Anyway.. as I told you before.. I didn't want to start a flamewar... I'll > never say that distro X is better than distro Y.. I will say that. I don't consider that a flamewar, given I present what I consider facts for why one is better than another. I won't just start writing in all caps that one sucks and the other is awesome. That would be a flamewar. > The best distro, in my opinion, is the one you uses and solve your problems. Well not necesarily. You may just not have switched to the best one yet. Or perhaps you are being forced to use an inferior distribution by someone else who has strange priorities that don't align with reality. That seems to happen a lot. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 17:44:47 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 13:44:47 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: <4BFC0B31.7030700-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF6BC9D.5070701@rogers.com> <20100521175646.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF711ED.40406@rogers.com> <20100525142343.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFBE504.6050905@rogers.com> <20100525153012.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFBF188.8090107@rogers.com> <20100525164318.GO17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFC0B31.7030700@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20100525174447.GQ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 01:38:57PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > If you use iwconfig you can set the channel, e.g. "iwconfig wlan0 > channel 52" > > Try that before setting the essid with network-manager. I shouldn't have to. If the client tools people actually use can't do it, then don't rely on it. Until I see lots of clients able to easily control the frequency when choosing an access point I will continue to think using the same SSID as harmful. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 17:49:08 2010 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 14:49:08 -0300 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20100525174133.GP17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525174133.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > > The thing is that I don't believe being forced to deal with all the details up front is a good way to learn. In fact I think it just puts most people off. It also doesn't show you how things could be done better (by in fact automating things). How is leraning good design practices not a good thing? A simplestic system doesn't teach you that. Not what I mean... You're not forced to do anything... Come on.. We're using Linux.. We can have a lot of distros.. hundreds.. a lot of options.. So, you're not "forcing anyone to deal with all the details". We're just giving an option for those who want to have this kind of experience. Understand? For example.. Let's suppose that someone already knows a lot of Linux but doesn't want to spend a lot of time installing a linux distro dealing with all these details. But, the person is interested on try Arch Linux system, pacman package manager, etc.. The Arch Way... Well.. If you wanna try Arch, but doesn't wanna deal with all the details like you said, we won't force you to do it. You can try Chackra Linux (http://chakra-project.org/). Chackra is a live cd using Arch Linux with kde packages. You'll have a simple installation system (simpler than Ubuntu, in my opinion, by the way). ;] --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 02:05:55PM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > Well.. I do respect your opinion.. > > But the principle of Arch isn't only to make it difficult to install.. > > > > As I told on my last speech in FLISOL ( Latin American Free Software > > Instalation Festival )... Arch is a great Linux School. For people who > > whanna learn Linux it's good choice. I don't mean people should stay the > > whole life using Arch. But, you'll have to agree that in one installation > of > > Arch you'll learn more about linux than in 10 installations of Ubuntu, > for > > example. I'm not saying that one is better than the other... I'm just > saying > > that Arch's installation isn't very easy because of that. To instigate > > people to navigate, search, study, etc.. > > The thing is that I don't believe being forced to deal with all the > details up front is a good way to learn. In fact I think it just puts > most people off. It also doesn't show you how things could be done better > (by in fact automating things). How is leraning good design practices > not a good thing? A simplestic system doesn't teach you that. > > The assumption that making the user do everything (often following a > written set of instructions) somehow teaches them something beneficial > is highly suspect. I don't buy it. Sure some people feel that by doing > a thousand steps, they must have done something complicated themselves, > rather than just clicking a button that did all those steps for them. > It doesn't mean they actually learned anything. It does mean they just > spent a lot of time doing a thousand steps. > > So I do in fact consider designs like Arch Linux harmful. Gentoo too. > I am not quite sure about Linux From Scratch yet. It seems to have > different goals than actually being a distribution. > > > As I told you before.. I'm a big fan of Debian. Is my favorite distro for > > servers.. but in my laptop I do still prefer Arch. > > > > The installation isn't so simple like other distros.. you're right.. But, > > after the whole system is done.. you'll realize the differences between > Arch > > and other distros. A great example of this is the AUR (aur.archlinux.org). > A > > community repo where everyone can put their own packages for everyone who > > wants to try. > > Anyone that wants to can put up a web site with packages for debian or > ubuntu as well (many people have). Sure it isn't a single community site. > Of course Debian is a community with thousands of developers putting up > packages, so to some extent it doesn't need a seperate site for that. > > Also a community package site could be done on any distribution, so it > isn't as such a feature of the distribution. It is a feature of the > community. You can have a great community around a crappy distribution. > Doesn't make the distribution good, just makes the community good (even > if one might think they are a bit misguided spending their effort on > such a distribution). > > > Anyway.. as I told you before.. I didn't want to start a flamewar... I'll > > never say that distro X is better than distro Y.. > > I will say that. I don't consider that a flamewar, given I present what > I consider facts for why one is better than another. I won't just > start writing in all caps that one sucks and the other is awesome. > That would be a flamewar. > > > The best distro, in my opinion, is the one you uses and solve your > problems. > > Well not necesarily. You may just not have switched to the best one yet. > Or perhaps you are being forced to use an inferior distribution by > someone else who has strange priorities that don't align with reality. > That seems to happen a lot. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 17:55:07 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 13:55:07 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: <20100525174447.GQ17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4BF6BC9D.5070701@rogers.com> <20100521175646.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF711ED.40406@rogers.com> <20100525142343.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFBE504.6050905@rogers.com> <20100525153012.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFBF188.8090107@rogers.com> <20100525164318.GO17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFC0B31.7030700@utoronto.ca> <20100525174447.GQ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BFC0EFB.7060600@utoronto.ca> On 05/25/2010 01:44 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 01:38:57PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> If you use iwconfig you can set the channel, e.g. "iwconfig wlan0 >> channel 52" >> >> Try that before setting the essid with network-manager. > > I shouldn't have to. If the client tools people actually use can't do > it, then don't rely on it. > > Until I see lots of clients able to easily control the frequency when > choosing an access point I will continue to think using the same SSID > as harmful. > In that case, using knetworkmanager you can set the bssid to the mac address of the radio you prefer. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 18:07:43 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 14:07:43 -0400 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525174133.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100525180743.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 02:49:08PM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Not what I mean... > > You're not forced to do anything... If you use the distribution you are. > Come on.. We're using Linux.. We can have a lot of distros.. hundreds.. a > lot of options.. We can, but honestly, we probably shouldn't. It's inefficient and wasteful. The vast majority are crap and die quickly. > So, you're not "forcing anyone to deal with all the details". We're just > giving an option for those who want to have this kind of experience. > Understand? Well that's not how it is being sold on the web page. It doesn't say "This is the distribution for people that want an old fashioned do-it-all-yourself experience". I wish it did say that. I could respect that. The way it currently represents itself, I consider harmful to users. Same way BASIC is harmful to new programmers. It makes you think you are learning useful things, but in fact it only teaching you bad habits that will later be hard to get rid of and really don't apply when you want to move on to a distribution people actually want to use for real work. You want to learn something useful? Go figure out how Debian's package tools work, how it manages the filelists and other database details. Learn how packages are built and the rules files involved, how debhelper works. That stuff is there and it makes life easier and better. It's useful stuff to know and teaches you best practices. As you said yourself, you prefer debian on servers. That's why you should learn how that works. Debian of course has the advantage that you don't have to learn it to use it, but its all there if you are interested. > For example.. Let's suppose that someone already knows a lot of Linux but > doesn't want to spend a lot of time installing a linux distro dealing with > all these details. But, the person is interested on try Arch Linux system, > pacman package manager, etc.. The Arch Way... Well.. If you wanna try Arch, > but doesn't wanna deal with all the details like you said, we won't force > you to do it. You can try Chackra Linux (http://chakra-project.org/). > > Chackra is a live cd using Arch Linux with kde packages. You'll have a > simple installation system (simpler than Ubuntu, in my opinion, by the way). My problem with the existance of such distributions is that they tend to make claims like "You will learn lots of things" or "It's faster because it is optimized for your system" or similar. People that don't know any better actually believe such crap. That is harmful. If it was honestly presented as: "This distribution aims for being simple to implement, so nothing is automated. It will be a lot of work." then fine. But they never present it that way. They always claim it's a good thing, when it isn't. I hate seeing people waste time repeating things that don't have to be repeated, especially when someone is claiming they are actually going to learn something useful from wasting their time. They are not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 18:09:15 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 14:09:15 -0400 Subject: Dlink DIR-825 wireless router one-day sale $119.99 In-Reply-To: <4BFC0EFB.7060600-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100521175646.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BF711ED.40406@rogers.com> <20100525142343.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFBE504.6050905@rogers.com> <20100525153012.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFBF188.8090107@rogers.com> <20100525164318.GO17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFC0B31.7030700@utoronto.ca> <20100525174447.GQ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFC0EFB.7060600@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20100525180915.GS17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 01:55:07PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > In that case, using knetworkmanager you can set the bssid to the mac > address of the radio you prefer. I want to click on the list of available wifi accesspoints and connect to the one I clicked on, not the other one that has the same name in the list. It didn't do that last time I tried it. If I have to do anything extra, then it isn't working yet. I guess I could file a bug report. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 18:17:11 2010 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 15:17:11 -0300 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20100525180743.GR17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525174133.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525180743.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Haha... You're funny.. Won't discuss with you about it anymore... You'll always say that debian is better... but if you read the topic, this is not the point here... I do respect Debian as a distro... and all the others.. But, if you can't respect other distros, like Arch, I'm sorry... I won't ask you to. I'm just sorry. If Arch is so bad as you say... why do they have users? Everyday I can see people saying that Ubuntu is terrible.. ubuntu is xxxx... I don't so.. I just ask myself... Why do they have more users? o.O Anyway.. I'm done on this thread... have fun with debian and fanaticism. ;] --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 02:49:08PM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > Not what I mean... > > > > You're not forced to do anything... > > If you use the distribution you are. > > > Come on.. We're using Linux.. We can have a lot of distros.. hundreds.. a > > lot of options.. > > We can, but honestly, we probably shouldn't. It's inefficient and > wasteful. The vast majority are crap and die quickly. > > > So, you're not "forcing anyone to deal with all the details". We're just > > giving an option for those who want to have this kind of experience. > > Understand? > > Well that's not how it is being sold on the web page. It doesn't > say "This is the distribution for people that want an old fashioned > do-it-all-yourself experience". I wish it did say that. I could > respect that. The way it currently represents itself, I consider harmful > to users. Same way BASIC is harmful to new programmers. It makes you > think you are learning useful things, but in fact it only teaching you > bad habits that will later be hard to get rid of and really don't apply > when you want to move on to a distribution people actually want to use > for real work. > > You want to learn something useful? Go figure out how Debian's package > tools work, how it manages the filelists and other database details. > Learn how packages are built and the rules files involved, how debhelper > works. That stuff is there and it makes life easier and better. > It's useful stuff to know and teaches you best practices. As you said > yourself, you prefer debian on servers. That's why you should learn how > that works. Debian of course has the advantage that you don't have to > learn it to use it, but its all there if you are interested. > > > For example.. Let's suppose that someone already knows a lot of Linux but > > doesn't want to spend a lot of time installing a linux distro dealing > with > > all these details. But, the person is interested on try Arch Linux > system, > > pacman package manager, etc.. The Arch Way... Well.. If you wanna try > Arch, > > but doesn't wanna deal with all the details like you said, we won't force > > you to do it. You can try Chackra Linux (http://chakra-project.org/). > > > > Chackra is a live cd using Arch Linux with kde packages. You'll have a > > simple installation system (simpler than Ubuntu, in my opinion, by the > way). > > My problem with the existance of such distributions is that they tend to > make claims like "You will learn lots of things" or "It's faster because > it is optimized for your system" or similar. People that don't know > any better actually believe such crap. That is harmful. > > If it was honestly presented as: > > "This distribution aims for being simple to implement, so nothing is > automated. It will be a lot of work." > > then fine. But they never present it that way. They always claim it's > a good thing, when it isn't. > > I hate seeing people waste time repeating things that don't have to be > repeated, especially when someone is claiming they are actually going > to learn something useful from wasting their time. They are not. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 19:07:37 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 19:07:37 +0000 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525174133.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Not what I mean... > You're not forced to do anything... If you choose to use the distribution, then you have accepted whatever hoops it puts in front of you. But to reword that "it forces you to do A, B, and C" isn't an unreasonable thing to do. > Come on.. We're using Linux.. We can have a lot of distros.. hundreds.. a > lot of options.. > So, you're not "forcing anyone to deal with all the details". We're just > giving an option for those who want to have this kind of experience. > Understand? > For example.. Let's suppose that someone already knows a lot of Linux but > doesn't want to spend a lot of time installing a linux distro dealing with > all these details. But, the person is interested on try Arch Linux system, > pacman package manager, etc.. The Arch Way... Well.. If you wanna try Arch, > but doesn't wanna deal with all the details like you said, we won't force > you to do it. You can try Chackra Linux (http://chakra-project.org/). > Chackra is a live cd using Arch Linux with kde packages. You'll have a > simple installation system (simpler than Ubuntu, in my opinion, by the way). > ;] Once upon a time, I upgraded Slackware from one binary format to another. There was a certain amount of educational value in that, in that: a) Nobody had come up with a way to automate the change, and b) It taught me some things about differences between binary formats and versions of libc. Of course, the grander lesson that I learned from it was that the result was rather fragile, and that it seemed a better idea to move to a distribution that didn't force me into that kind of process. At the time, I migrated from Slackware to Red Hat, which was a considerable improvement in how system management processes could be automated. I subsequently found that Debian took that a number of steps further, and the sorts of processes that Lennart describes have, over the years, tended to be elaborated on rather than being diminished. I see little value in people continuing to recreate system management "wheels" in more primitive fashions. It seems to me that if the Slackware folks had decided to adopt BSD Ports as a build process, that would have provided a meaningful (and distinctly different) approach to systematic system management that would have been an interesting alternative to Debian. Unfortunately, the nearest thing that happened was that Gentoo emerged, and popularized twiddling with optimizer flags as indicating that you "understand your system." I'd love to see a system that tried using system management tools like cfengine and puppet to manage lots of aspects of the system; *that* would be worth tearing things down a bit to build up something new. But I'm mostly with Lennart - most of the distributions are inefficient wastes of time, and the typical "distribution of the week" *should* die quickly. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 19:39:07 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 15:39:07 -0400 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525174133.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525180743.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100525193907.GT17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 03:17:11PM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Won't discuss with you about it anymore... You'll always say that debian is > better... but if you read the topic, this is not the point here... Debian could be improved. Releases take forever, some transitions are a mess (but fortunately only affect testing and unstable), and some arguments between developers are nuts. > I do respect Debian as a distro... and all the others.. But, if you can't > respect other distros, like Arch, I'm sorry... I won't ask you to. I'm just > sorry. > > If Arch is so bad as you say... why do they have users? Why does VisualBasic have so many users? Because people believe the claims and don't know any better (many will eventually learn, some won't). As I said. If they stated _honestly_ up front what the distribution was really about, I would respect it. > Everyday I can see people saying that Ubuntu is terrible.. ubuntu is xxxx... > I don't so.. I just ask myself... Why do they have more users? o.O Ubuntu tries to make a good distribution that is easy to install and does what most people want out of the box with minimal effort. They mostly succeed at that. On the other hand they also aim to provide releases on a fixed schedule. That ruins it. It is buggy, upgrades fail or break the machine, and can be a big nightmare. Fixed schedules do that. Of course if they didn't do that, perhaps they would just be plain old Debian. > Anyway.. I'm done on this thread... > > have fun with debian and fanaticism. ;] I am not a fanatic by any means. I just have enough experience to know when things are going in the wrong direction. Well at least I think they are the wrong direction. My goals are to do it right (that being the best possible way) and only doing it once (which means only one person having to do something rather than everybody having to do something). I like efficiency because I am lazy. I don't want to do repetetive boring stuff. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 20:27:52 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 16:27:52 -0400 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20100525193907.GT17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525174133.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525180743.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525193907.GT17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100525162752.33dd043b.tleslie@tcn.net> Sounds like an advert for ..... Linux Mint ? :) But seriously, that is exactly why i use Mint - its Debian and Ubuntu done right (no fixed release, waits for the bugs to be flushed out) for the final user, with all the "illegal" multimedia already in it (due to it being produced in the free world :) ). I tried arch, as Dann from TLLTS raves on it. It was a easy install, even thou it was power user based. But I had no luck getting all the great codec support for it. If it proved rock solid for servers? may be usefull. It seems since slack is sort of dead (how much can 1-2 guys do after all), slackers are adopting arch as the next poweruser (bragging rights) distro. My experience was, I would need many more hours to get arch to what Mint was out of the box, and mint restricts me in no real way, giving me all the goodness of debian and ubuntu, all be it 2-6 weeks after said ubuntu release. Now that I am so happy with Mint, my big ? these days (in the Linux world) is, do I try KDE again. Like many I jumped off it when they f'd up so bad (see even Linus rant), but I am thinking it may be worth trying again, as gnome is maybe a bit "too simple". Anyone gone back to kde lately and loving it? would be interested in hearing. tl > > Ubuntu tries to make a good distribution that is easy to install and does > what most people want out of the box with minimal effort. They mostly > succeed at that. On the other hand they also aim to provide releases on > a fixed schedule. That ruins it. It is buggy, upgrades fail or break > the machine, and can be a big nightmare. Fixed schedules do that. > Of course if they didn't do that, perhaps they would just be plain > old Debian. > > > Anyway.. I'm done on this thread... > > > > have fun with debian and fanaticism. ;] > > I am not a fanatic by any means. I just have enough experience to know > when things are going in the wrong direction. Well at least I think > they are the wrong direction. My goals are to do it right (that being > the best possible way) and only doing it once (which means only one person > having to do something rather than everybody having to do something). > I like efficiency because I am lazy. I don't want to do repetetive > boring stuff. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 20:38:16 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 16:38:16 -0400 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20100525162752.33dd043b.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525174133.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525180743.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525193907.GT17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525162752.33dd043b.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20100525203816.GU17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 04:27:52PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > Sounds like an advert for ..... Linux Mint ? :) > > But seriously, that is exactly why i use Mint - its Debian and Ubuntu done right (no fixed release, waits for the bugs to be flushed out) for the final user, with all the "illegal" multimedia already in it (due to it being produced in the free world :) ). I have not yet looked at mint, but it does sound like a decent idea. I do personally have the issue of too many architectures of hardware around, and Debian is probably the only thing that runs on all of them. > I tried arch, as Dann from TLLTS raves on it. It was a easy install, even thou it was power user based. > But I had no luck getting all the great codec support for it. If it proved rock solid for servers? may > be usefull. It seems since slack is sort of dead (how much can 1-2 guys do after all), slackers are adopting > arch as the next poweruser (bragging rights) distro. My experience was, I would need many more hours to get > arch to what Mint was out of the box, and mint restricts me in no real way, giving me all the goodness of > debian and ubuntu, all be it 2-6 weeks after said ubuntu release. > > Now that I am so happy with Mint, my big ? these days (in the Linux world) is, do I try KDE again. Like many I jumped off it when they f'd up so bad (see even Linus rant), but I am thinking it may be worth trying again, as > gnome is maybe a bit "too simple". Anyone gone back to kde lately and loving it? would be interested in > hearing. I do run kde at the moment (just checking the icon at the bottom of the screen... yeah it has a K on a blue thingy, must be kde). Current version seems fine. No problems lately. Of course all I expect from the desktop envinronment is: Manage my windows, letting me alt+tab between them, minimize, maximize and resize them. alt+f2 should ask me which command to run. That's it. I don't need anymore. I don't want a graphical filemanager or yet another web browser or any other silly thing like that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 20:48:00 2010 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 13:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20100525162752.33dd043b.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100525162752.33dd043b.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <926983.36025.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 5/25/10, ted leslie wrote: > From: ted leslie > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Cc: "Lennart Sorensen" > Received: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 4:27 PM > > Sounds like an advert for ..... Linux Mint ? :) > > But seriously, that is exactly why i use Mint - its Debian > and Ubuntu done right (no fixed release, waits for the bugs > to be flushed out) for the final user, with all the > "illegal" multimedia already in it (due to it being produced > in the free world :) ). > > I tried arch, as Dann from TLLTS raves on it. It was a easy > install, even thou it was power user based. > But I had no luck getting all the great codec support for > it. If it proved rock solid for servers? may > be usefull. It seems since slack is sort of dead (how much > can 1-2 guys do after all), slackers are adopting > arch as the next poweruser (bragging rights) distro. My > experience was, I would need many more hours to get > arch to what Mint was out of the box, and mint restricts me > in no real way, giving me all the goodness of > debian and ubuntu, all be it 2-6 weeks after said ubuntu > release. > > Now that I am so happy with Mint, my big ? these days (in > the Linux world) is, do I try KDE again. Like many I jumped > off it when they f'd up so bad (see even Linus rant), but I > am thinking it may be worth trying again, as > gnome is maybe a bit "too simple". Anyone gone back to kde > lately and loving it? would be interested in > hearing. > Gone to KDE lately, meaning KDE v. 4.x? yes. Loved it? No. I love KDE 3.5 and am still using it on my desktop. Just because I didn't like KDE 4, I am stuck with Ubuntu 8.04. EK. > tl > > > > > Ubuntu tries to make a good distribution that is easy > to install and does > > what most people want out of the box with minimal > effort.? They mostly > > succeed at that.? On the other hand they also aim > to provide releases on > > a fixed schedule.? That ruins it.? It is > buggy, upgrades fail or break > > the machine, and can be a big nightmare.? Fixed > schedules do that. > > Of course if they didn't do that, perhaps they would > just be plain > > old Debian. > > > > > Anyway.. I'm done on this thread... > > > > > > have fun with debian and fanaticism. ;] > > > > I am not a fanatic by any means.? I just have > enough experience to know > > when things are going in the wrong direction.? > Well at least I think > > they are the wrong direction.? My goals are to do > it right (that being > > the best possible way) and only doing it once (which > means only one person > > having to do something rather than everybody having to > do something). > > I like efficiency because I am lazy.? I don't > want to do repetetive > > boring stuff. > > > > -- > > Len Sorensen > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below > 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > ted leslie > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 25 23:59:57 2010 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 19:59:57 -0400 Subject: OT: Email recall - What was the point? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100525195957.d32ed506.hgibson@eol.ca> On Tue, 25 May 2010 11:12:02 -0400 William Muriithi wrote: > Hi > > Once in a while, I get to assist someone who need recalling a mail. I > have never seen one work. Personally, I would not even bother with it. > However, it look like everybody know about the feature which mean it > was well marketed, so the best way is to attempt it so that the user > does not blame us for not attempting it. > > Which bring the question, why did Microsoft ever place such a useless > feature on their application? When was it ever able to work? I > suspect it was only for local mail, but they should have put the > disclaimer along the feature > > Anyway, not really a question, but a morning rant. I have received emails followed by another email recalling the first one. This does tell me clearly that your first email was not valid. If it contains personal information that should not have gotten out, you are out of luck. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 00:06:15 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 20:06:15 -0400 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20100525162752.33dd043b.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525174133.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525180743.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525193907.GT17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525162752.33dd043b.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20100525200615.y0wgy81ag4okg40s@webmail.utoronto.ca> Quoting ted leslie : > It seems since slack is sort of dead (how much can 1-2 guys do > after all), slackers are adopting > arch as the next poweruser (bragging rights) distro. My experience Funny you mention that, Slackware 13.1 came out two days ago ;) http://www.slackware.com/announce/13.1.php Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 00:06:11 2010 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 20:06:11 -0400 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20100525162752.33dd043b.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525174133.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525180743.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525193907.GT17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525162752.33dd043b.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4BFC65F3.3010005@teksavvy.com> ted leslie wrote: ...It seems since slack is sort of dead (how much can 1-2 > guys do after all), slackers are adopting arch as the next poweruser > (bragging rights) distro... Well, that "sort of dead" distro just released version 13.1 today, so there's a "flicker" of life left. As for how much can 1 or 2 guys do (there are a few more than that), they can do a lot. Slackers, on the whole, don't waste their time with "bragging rights" distros. We just want something clean, stable, and configurable. Mind you, maybe that is worth bragging about. ;-> -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 01:12:51 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 21:12:51 -0400 Subject: Support your Linux distro... please buy your DVD/CD! Message-ID: <20100526011251.GA4534@node1.opengeometry.net> I've noticed that a lot of distro have announced their latest release, ie. Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, Centos, Mint, Mepis, etc... Please buy DVD/CD! We can talk about their features until cows come home, but if users don't buy them, then you can bet Bill Gates won't. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 04:06:46 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 00:06:46 -0400 Subject: GPS based data acquisition? Message-ID: <1b6fdea593657a04c8faa8eacbb7e430.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Folks - As part of an ongoing study of light pollution, I'd like to be able to automatically acquire data from a light meter and plot it on a map, while driving over a route. I have the light meter sorted out: it's a voltmeter equipped with a light sensor. The voltmeter can be queried from a PC host over a USB connection and provide an ASCII data string representing light level. The voltmeter appears to be a serial port periferal. I have a GPS receiver (the microsoft 'streets and trips hardware) that talks to its software via USB, and I suspect it looks like a serial port device. However, I can buy some other hardware if that simplifies the application. So what is needed is some sort of app that can be programmed to fire requests to a 'serial port device' and then simultaneously capture the data that comes back and the GPS coordinates. Anyone have suggestions where to start with this? Thanks - Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 04:16:29 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 00:16:29 -0400 Subject: Support your Linux distro... please buy your DVD/CD! In-Reply-To: <20100526011251.GA4534-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100526011251.GA4534@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Well, most of them don't sell CDs/DVDs anymore. In fact even the music industry is moving away from that. The film industry will soon follow suit. My point is: donations are fine (and necessary), but buying CDs/DVDs is these days of cheap(-ish) broadband is pointless, isn't it? Some distros have proper business models, be it enterprise versions (RHEL... which by the way I think it's ridiculously overrated), selling technical support and consulting (SUSE, Mandriva & some others) or value-added services (Ubuntu One, Canonical Landscape and so on). Other distros rely on donations, and I agree that they are an important piece of the puzzle, but CDs? Seriously? Who cares for this old, non-biodegradable, last-century technology? - FZ On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 21:12, William Park wrote: > I've noticed that a lot of distro have announced their latest release, > ie. Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, Centos, Mint, Mepis, etc... > Please buy DVD/CD! ?We can talk about their features until cows come > home, but if users don't buy them, then you can bet Bill Gates won't. > > -- > William > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 10:30:45 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 06:30:45 -0400 Subject: GPS based data acquisition? In-Reply-To: <1b6fdea593657a04c8faa8eacbb7e430.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1b6fdea593657a04c8faa8eacbb7e430.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4BFCF855.1000209@utoronto.ca> On 26/05/10 12:06 AM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Folks - > > As part of an ongoing study of light pollution, I'd like to be able to > automatically acquire data from a light meter and plot it on a map, while > driving over a route. > > I have the light meter sorted out: it's a voltmeter equipped with a light > sensor. The voltmeter can be queried from a PC host over a USB connection > and provide an ASCII data string representing light level. The voltmeter > appears to be a serial port periferal. > > I have a GPS receiver (the microsoft 'streets and trips hardware) that > talks to its software via USB, and I suspect it looks like a serial port > device. However, I can buy some other hardware if that simplifies the > application. > > So what is needed is some sort of app that can be programmed to fire > requests to a 'serial port device' and then simultaneously capture the > data that comes back and the GPS coordinates. > > Anyone have suggestions where to start with this? Really depends on the device. Take a look here for a python+bluetooth GPS scanner. Even if you're using USB, the GPS sentence parsing and conversion from degres/minutes/seconds to decimal is useful. http://thor.atrc.utoronto.ca/repos/bul/scyp/wips/trunk/demo/gps_scan.py The Holux M1000 is cheap and easy if you want a bluetooth version. I have an extra one too ;) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 11:36:07 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 07:36:07 -0400 Subject: pre-upgrade backup Message-ID: Hi folks, Normally when I upgrade a laptop or something, I back up my data & just go full steam ahead. But I'm thinking about upgrading our family media centre from ubuntu karmic to lucid, and i'm worried there will be glitches -- the current setup is a bit finicky already, but the reason i'd upgrade is that some of the stuff is broken anyway (e.g., our remote doesn't work at all anymore) and i believe certain issues have been addressed in the stock kernels & libraries in the last 6 months or so. Anyway, since the whole family uses this computer, I'm anxious about a failed upgrade, and am wondering if anyone out there uses a version control system or something that would let one roll back an upgrade if it's severely broken. For instance, I'm thinking I could put /etc under git or something, and use dpkg --get-selections to get a list of packages? And if the things go badly wrong, I could just roll back /etc/ and reinstall everything from the karmic repos or something. /home is unfortunately not on a separate partition but all our video files are, so most of our media should be relatively safe. anyway, i'd appreciate hearing any thoughts. thanks! matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 11:41:20 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 07:41:20 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone attending TechKnowFile today? Message-ID: <20100526074120.i3yo945i8080ckg8@webmail.utoronto.ca> Anyone from U of T on this list attending TechKnowFile today? Would be nice to put some faces to names. I'll be there at least all morning, wearing a CBC shirt. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 12:49:37 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 08:49:37 -0400 Subject: GPS based data acquisition? In-Reply-To: <1b6fdea593657a04c8faa8eacbb7e430.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1b6fdea593657a04c8faa8eacbb7e430.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 12:06 AM, wrote: > Folks - > > As part of an ongoing study of light pollution, I'd like to be able to > automatically acquire data from a light meter and plot it on a map, while > driving over a route. > > I have the light meter sorted out: it's a voltmeter equipped with a light > sensor. The voltmeter can be queried from a PC host over a USB connection > and provide an ASCII data string representing light level. The voltmeter > appears to be a serial port periferal. > > I have a GPS receiver (the microsoft 'streets and trips hardware) that > talks to its software via USB, and I suspect it looks like a serial port > device. However, I can buy some other hardware if that simplifies the > application. > > So what is needed is some sort of app that can be programmed to fire > requests to a 'serial port device' and then simultaneously capture the > data that comes back and the GPS coordinates. > > Anyone have suggestions where to start with this? Hi Peter, gpsd is the way to talk to a gps device. It should handle any device specific translation issues and allow you to save the location data that interests you. You could, for instance, save your location as trackfile.gpx with one data point per second. That's probably a good place to start as you'll end up with an XML file of your progress. The gpx format is widely understood by programs and is relatively easy to read for a human. You'll be doing something similar with the light meter. Query it regularly and save the data. You might be tempted to reconcile light data and position data by timestamp. Be aware that the timestamps in the gpx file come from the gps system, not your system clock. You'll want to either note the offset between those clocks, or synchronize your watches before data collection. I've always wanted to have an excuse to synchronize our watches. And an example from the OpenStreetMap world. Cameras with GPS, or GPS attachments for cameras are still relatively rare and expensive. We can use a cheap digital camera and a separate GPS, then reconcile the directory of photos later. One trick is to take a photo of the time on the GPS receiver at some point of the survey. The reconciliation software then asks "what time is shown on the GPS" and calculates the offsets for the survey and places photo thumbnails along the GPX trackfile in the editor. As long as the camera timestamp / clock isn't too terrible, location should be "close enough." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 14:36:14 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 10:36:14 -0400 Subject: Support your Linux distro... please buy your DVD/CD! In-Reply-To: References: <20100526011251.GA4534@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100526103614.fb7798cc.tleslie@tcn.net> I agree. For ubuntu for example, you could buy music from their partner as a way to show support. In case of Mint, they have donations, and they then post your name on the web page as a sponser. Or, of course, by a t-shirt or a mug, almost every distro has that kind of store. tl On Wed, 26 May 2010 00:16:29 -0400 Fabio FZero wrote: > Well, most of them don't sell CDs/DVDs anymore. In fact even the music > industry is moving away from that. The film industry will soon follow > suit. My point is: donations are fine (and necessary), but buying > CDs/DVDs is these days of cheap(-ish) broadband is pointless, isn't > it? > > Some distros have proper business models, be it enterprise versions > (RHEL... which by the way I think it's ridiculously overrated), > selling technical support and consulting (SUSE, Mandriva & some > others) or value-added services (Ubuntu One, Canonical Landscape and > so on). > > Other distros rely on donations, and I agree that they are an > important piece of the puzzle, but CDs? Seriously? Who cares for this > old, non-biodegradable, last-century technology? > > - FZ > > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 21:12, William Park wrote: > > I've noticed that a lot of distro have announced their latest release, > > ie. Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, Centos, Mint, Mepis, etc... > > Please buy DVD/CD! ?We can talk about their features until cows come > > home, but if users don't buy them, then you can bet Bill Gates won't. > > > > -- > > William > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 14:42:19 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 10:42:19 -0400 Subject: pre-upgrade backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 26 May 2010 07:36, Matt Price wrote: > Normally when I upgrade a laptop or something, I back up my data & > just go full steam ahead. ?But I'm thinking about upgrading our family > media centre from ubuntu karmic to lucid, and i'm worried there will > be glitches -- the current setup is a bit finicky already, but the > reason i'd upgrade is that some of the stuff is broken anyway (e.g., > our remote doesn't work at all anymore) and i believe certain issues > have been addressed in the stock kernels & libraries in the last 6 > months or so. > > > Anyway, since the whole family uses this computer, I'm anxious about a > failed upgrade, and am wondering if anyone out there uses a version > control system or something that would let one roll back an upgrade if > it's severely broken. ?For instance, I'm thinking I could put /etc > under git or something, and use dpkg --get-selections to get a list of > packages? ?And if the things go badly wrong, I could just roll back > /etc/ and reinstall everything from the karmic repos or something. > /home is unfortunately not on a separate partition but all our video > files are, so most of our media should be relatively safe. > > anyway, i'd appreciate hearing any thoughts. ?thanks! Consider cloning the OS partition onto another HD. Once you've done that, take out the current HD, replace it with the clone, and establish that it's bootable. I'd feel pretty comfortable about upgrading then. Of course I have stacks of 20/40/80GiB HDs around my apartment and am assuming the same for you, and I'm reading your message to say you don't need to back up the media data so the small HD would work ... Hope this helps. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 15:31:48 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 11:31:48 -0400 Subject: GPS based data acquisition? In-Reply-To: <1b6fdea593657a04c8faa8eacbb7e430.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1b6fdea593657a04c8faa8eacbb7e430.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <59ecb776c298c368b6dfa3c117024be9.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Folks - > > As part of an ongoing study of light pollution, I'd like to be able to > automatically acquire data from a light meter and plot it on a map, while > driving over a route. > > I have the light meter sorted out: it's a voltmeter equipped with a light > sensor. The voltmeter can be queried from a PC host over a USB connection > and provide an ASCII data string representing light level. The voltmeter > appears to be a serial port periferal. > > I have a GPS receiver (the microsoft 'streets and trips hardware) that > talks to its software via USB, and I suspect it looks like a serial port > device. However, I can buy some other hardware if that simplifies the > application. > > So what is needed is some sort of app that can be programmed to fire > requests to a 'serial port device' and then simultaneously capture the > data that comes back and the GPS coordinates. > > Anyone have suggestions where to start with this? OK, I made some progress on this. I discovered that the Pharos GPS-500 is a 'serial-USB' device, which is very familiar since that's how we communicate with our instruments. (This hardware was bundled with Microsoft Streets and Maps. Hugh posted a notice that it was on sale for something like $30 at one of the computer warehouse outlets, which is a great bargain.). I plugged it into a USB port, and it showed up (according to 'dmesg') on /dev/ttyUSB0. The default baud rate is 4800, so I started up GTKTERM with that port setting and baud rate and bingo! the terminal shows a stream of ascii messages from the GPS. There may be some advantages to using 'gpsd' as an intermediary, but in any case we can just decode the ASCII data. Our voltmeter software can be set to acquire data at any rate (over about 2 readings per second), so I picture patching that with a routine that captures the most recent GPS data. The same routine would write a voltmeter-data plus gps-data record to a file. Now I need to figure out how that data could be superimposed on a map... Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 15:45:19 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 11:45:19 -0400 Subject: GPS based data acquisition? In-Reply-To: <59ecb776c298c368b6dfa3c117024be9.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1b6fdea593657a04c8faa8eacbb7e430.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <59ecb776c298c368b6dfa3c117024be9.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:31 AM, wrote: ... > There may be some advantages to using 'gpsd' as an intermediary, but in > any case we can just decode the ASCII data. > > Our voltmeter software can be set to acquire data at any rate (over about > 2 readings per second), so I picture patching that with a routine that > captures the most recent GPS data. The same routine would write a > voltmeter-data plus gps-data record to a file. > > Now I need to figure out how that data could be superimposed on a map... I'm surprised that you can get a good reading of light pollution from a car. Do you park the car and cut the lights to take the readings? Either way, it sounds like a cool project :-) -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 15:49:12 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 15:49:12 +0000 Subject: Support your Linux distro... please buy your DVD/CD! In-Reply-To: <20100526103614.fb7798cc.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100526011251.GA4534@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100526103614.fb7798cc.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 2:36 PM, ted leslie wrote: > I agree. For ubuntu for example, you could buy music from their partner as a way to show support. > In case of Mint, they have donations, and they then post your name on the web page as a sponser. > Or, of course, by a t-shirt or a mug, almost every distro has that kind of store. For Debian, THE thing to do to support it is to assist in its development, whether by: a) Maintaining some packages b) Providing patches or other assistance to rectify problems with packages c) Providing patches to the developers upstream, which is likely to assist users of other Linux distributions. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 15:56:22 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 11:56:22 -0400 Subject: GPS based data acquisition? In-Reply-To: References: <1b6fdea593657a04c8faa8eacbb7e430.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <59ecb776c298c368b6dfa3c117024be9.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <655adfed78f314692c58205c4ea13848.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:31 AM, wrote: > ... >> There may be some advantages to using 'gpsd' as an intermediary, but in >> any case we can just decode the ASCII data. >> >> Our voltmeter software can be set to acquire data at any rate (over >> about >> 2 readings per second), so I picture patching that with a routine that >> captures the most recent GPS data. The same routine would write a >> voltmeter-data plus gps-data record to a file. >> >> Now I need to figure out how that data could be superimposed on a map... > > I'm surprised that you can get a good reading of light pollution from > a car. Do you park the car and cut the lights to take the readings? It depends what you're trying to measure. There is a 'sky quality meter' (SQM) which measures the darkness of the sky. Astronomers use it to measure the quality of the viewing. I'm more interested at this point in the lighting of Toronto streets. I would like to see whether the streets are illuminated above, at, or below the standard. (IESNA and CIE both have standards for street light level.) If the light levels are above standard, then that's clearly a waste of energy. Another issue is uniformity: lighting designers try to ensure that the light level does not change between lamps. I just finished a paper that suggests street lighting contributes about 30% of light pollution, so it's an important issue. I picture the light sensor mounted on the car (or bicycle!) pointing upward, with a shield so that it's not affected by car headlights. Rob Pike (of Unix fame) did a study in the Toronto area of light pollution, back in the 70's I believe. So it's been a long time since anyone measured this. Peter > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 15:56:47 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 15:56:47 +0000 Subject: GPS based data acquisition? In-Reply-To: References: <1b6fdea593657a04c8faa8eacbb7e430.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <59ecb776c298c368b6dfa3c117024be9.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Mike Kallies wrote: > I'm surprised that you can get a good reading of light pollution from > a car. ?Do you park the car and cut the lights to take the readings? It mayn't be terribly accurate at measuring the precise light levels, but I'd expect it to provide plenty useful information at how light pollution is varying. It would likely get adversely affected by local variations in street light placement, but there should be some capability to measure that, too. > Either way, it sounds like a cool project :-) Indeed. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 16:07:33 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 12:07:33 -0400 Subject: Support your Linux distro... please buy your DVD/CD! In-Reply-To: <20100526011251.GA4534-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100526011251.GA4534@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100526160733.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 09:12:51PM -0400, William Park wrote: > I've noticed that a lot of distro have announced their latest release, > ie. Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, Centos, Mint, Mepis, etc... > Please buy DVD/CD! We can talk about their features until cows come > home, but if users don't buy them, then you can bet Bill Gates won't. But I don't want a DVD. It's a waste of plastic for something that will be obsolete soon. Netinstalls are the only sane way to go. Donate money to the project instead. If someone thinks physical disc sales are the only way to count users, then they are idiots (besides even Microsoft knows better than that. They count sold licenses instead, and many of those (in fact most) do not include any media anymore). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 16:07:41 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 12:07:41 -0400 Subject: pre-upgrade backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BFD474D.6080602@dinamis.com> On 05/26/2010 07:36 AM, Matt Price wrote: > Hi folks, > > Normally when I upgrade a laptop or something, I back up my data& > just go full steam ahead. You should be absolutely certain that you have a good backup of the data because I've read reports of 10.04 clobbering partitions that it was expressly told not to clobber. It had something to do with RAID sets not being correctly assembled, I think. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 16:09:00 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 12:09:00 -0400 Subject: pre-upgrade backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100526160900.GW17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 07:36:07AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > Normally when I upgrade a laptop or something, I back up my data & > just go full steam ahead. But I'm thinking about upgrading our family > media centre from ubuntu karmic to lucid, and i'm worried there will > be glitches -- the current setup is a bit finicky already, but the > reason i'd upgrade is that some of the stuff is broken anyway (e.g., > our remote doesn't work at all anymore) and i believe certain issues > have been addressed in the stock kernels & libraries in the last 6 > months or so. > > > Anyway, since the whole family uses this computer, I'm anxious about a > failed upgrade, and am wondering if anyone out there uses a version > control system or something that would let one roll back an upgrade if > it's severely broken. For instance, I'm thinking I could put /etc > under git or something, and use dpkg --get-selections to get a list of > packages? And if the things go badly wrong, I could just roll back > /etc/ and reinstall everything from the karmic repos or something. > /home is unfortunately not on a separate partition but all our video > files are, so most of our media should be relatively safe. > > anyway, i'd appreciate hearing any thoughts. thanks! It would be much simpler (and faster to recover) to just do a disk image/backup before you upgrade. Downgrades are just not an option. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 16:11:57 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 12:11:57 -0400 Subject: pre-upgrade backup In-Reply-To: <20100526160900.GW17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100526160900.GW17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BFD484D.4070005@dinamis.com> On 05/26/2010 12:09 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > It would be much simpler (and faster to recover) to just do a disk > image/backup before you upgrade. Or disconnect the original drive and install on a different drive altogether. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 16:29:58 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 16:29:58 +0000 Subject: pre-upgrade backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Matt Price wrote: > Anyway, since the whole family uses this computer, I'm anxious about a > failed upgrade, and am wondering if anyone out there uses a version > control system or something that would let one roll back an upgrade if > it's severely broken. ?For instance, I'm thinking I could put /etc > under git or something, and use dpkg --get-selections to get a list of > packages? ?And if the things go badly wrong, I could just roll back > /etc/ and reinstall everything from the karmic repos or something. > /home is unfortunately not on a separate partition but all our video > files are, so most of our media should be relatively safe. > > anyway, i'd appreciate hearing any thoughts. ?thanks! Disk drives are cheap enough that I'd be strongly inclined to have the backup be that: - The old installation remains on the old drive, completely untouched - The new installation is done on a new drive, and whatever data appears relevant is copied over If you want to roll back, you just mount the old drive. And that costs you, what, maybe $100. The amount of time required to try to do this on a single drive, or to repair things if something goes woefully wrong, is likely to be worth quite a bit more than $100. It may be a lovely idea to have a Git repository that captures some portion of what's in /etc; that's pretty independent of this. It's a regrettable thing that /etc tends to capture quite a lot of static information that, for instance, you'd want an RPM/deb package to update. Life would be better if we consistently had: /etc - containing only the data that YOU ENTERED /var/packaged-stuff/etc - containing data provided by packages and such But I don't think it would be notably easy to get to that point. The nearest would be to establish your own repository... /etc - contains all the configuration of all sorts, including cached copies of DATA YOU ENTERED /usr/my-etc - contains original copies of the files that you customized, which could be managed as a Git repo or some such thing Then... Something automated would periodically (polling/event driven I leave to others) copy anything changed in /usr/my-etc into the appropriate spot in /etc I've done things somewhat resembling this using cfengine. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 16:35:04 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 09:35:04 -0700 Subject: Support your Linux distro... please buy your DVD/CD! In-Reply-To: <20100526160733.GV17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100526011251.GA4534@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100526160733.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 09:12:51PM -0400, William Park wrote: >> I've noticed that a lot of distro have announced their latest release, >> ie. Slackware, Fedora, Ubuntu, Centos, Mint, Mepis, etc... >> Please buy DVD/CD! ?We can talk about their features until cows come >> home, but if users don't buy them, then you can bet Bill Gates won't. > > But I don't want a DVD. ?It's a waste of plastic for something that will > be obsolete soon. ?Netinstalls are the only sane way to go. ?Donate money > to the project instead. > > If someone thinks physical disc sales are the only way to count users, > then they are idiots (besides even Microsoft knows better than that. > They count sold licenses instead, and many of those (in fact most) > do not include any media anymore). > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Cups, T-shirts, and other such things aren't a bad idea though, as available. They're a visibly show of support. Of course, cash goes directly to the bank, but it's nice to have a token for yourself too :-) -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 17:44:23 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 13:44:23 -0400 Subject: GPS based data acquisition? In-Reply-To: <59ecb776c298c368b6dfa3c117024be9.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1b6fdea593657a04c8faa8eacbb7e430.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <59ecb776c298c368b6dfa3c117024be9.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:31 AM, wrote: > Now I need to figure out how that data could be superimposed on a map... Well, why didn't you say so! ;-) It you use .gpx to store your track file it is trivial to display that gpx track over your map of choice. Lots of software can read gpx and display it with your choice of basemap. There are a dozen or so Open Source GIS packages to consider. Try OpenJUMP if you don't have a favorite already. Here is a quick way to even display that track over OpenStreetMap on your web site. http://weait.com/content/easy-osm-your-gpx-tracks This just shows the track. Let's talk about showing the data. One of the OpenStreetMap editors, josm[1], will display gpx tracks, and vary the track colour by the velocity. Not quite what you want, but perhaps you can hack the code, or write a josm plugin to look in the gpx for an arbitrary data tag, and convert that to colour or intensity for display? If you are primarily interested in showing the data on a web site, perhaps dive back in to OpenLayers[2] which is pretty much a magic wand for maps on web sites. One gentleman recently demonstrated heat maps in OpenLayers[3]. That code hasn't been released yet, as far as I know, but that might be a good start for your illumination data. If all of this doesn't really seem right for you then you could consider one of the heavy-duty map generation stacks. Perhaps use mapnik[4] to generate a set of translucent light-pollution tiles from your collected data, then use OpenLayers to display the data over your favourite base map. The Hike/Bike map is an excellent example of this method. [5] That link has the translucent "by night" layer active. Press the blue plus sign (top right) to enable / disable the "by night" or hill shading layers to see how your data might look over your map. Generating those translucent tiles is a slightly bigger deal, but you get the chance to change rendering by zoom level which will make your data look great at city, or street scale. Sounds like tons of fun. [1] http://josm.openstreetmap.de [2] http://openlayers.org [3] http://opengeodata.org/osm-heatmaps-in-the-browser-w-openlayers [4] http://mapnik.org [5] http://hikebikemap.de/?zoom=12&lat=50.93563&lon=14.15823&layers=B0000TFTFF -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 26 21:33:05 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 17:33:05 -0400 Subject: GPS based data acquisition? In-Reply-To: References: <1b6fdea593657a04c8faa8eacbb7e430.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <59ecb776c298c368b6dfa3c117024be9.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: > On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:31 AM, wrote: >> Now I need to figure out how that data could be superimposed on a map... > Richard Weait rose to the bait and said... > Well, why didn't you say so! ;-) > You have saved me *hours* of research, Richard. Thank-you very much. Today I purchased the light-meter accessory (Extech 401025 Light Probemeter) that works with a recording voltmeter (eg, the Syscomp DVM-101, ahem), so all the hardware is organized. Just a 'little bit of software' and we're done! ;). Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 00:34:36 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 20:34:36 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? Message-ID: I don't know if anyone on here does any video encoding, but can anyone tell me why it is that so many people insist on adding the black bars to their videos? It's amazing how many people I run into who cannot seem to grasp the difference between 4:3, 16:9 and panoramic. They think if a movie is widescreen, ie. 16:9, they need to add the black bars to 'pad' the video...why? Are their TV's wrong? Their computer displays? I've had all kinds of TV's, old CRT and flat screen, I've never, ever, needed to mess with video to make it display properly. Ever. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 00:50:47 2010 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David Christopher Chipman) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 20:50:47 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BFDC1E7.3050500@ican.net> Thomas Milne wrote: > I don't know if anyone on here does any video encoding, but can anyone > tell me why it is that so many people insist on adding the black bars > to their videos? It's amazing how many people I run into who cannot > seem to grasp the difference between 4:3, 16:9 and panoramic. They > think if a movie is widescreen, ie. 16:9, they need to add the black > bars to 'pad' the video...why? > > Are their TV's wrong? Their computer displays? I've had all kinds of > TV's, old CRT and flat screen, I've never, ever, needed to mess with > video to make it display properly. Ever. > > Hey there, It's not the end user's fault, really. It has to do with the fact that the aspect ratios for some video content is not that same as broadcast TV, which "most" monitors are designed for. That's why the black bars are there. Other wise they have to pan-and-scan the source image, to look at "important" things. OK? -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 01:42:17 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 21:42:17 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: <4BFDC1E7.3050500-rYHPKw+MWrk@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFDC1E7.3050500@ican.net> Message-ID: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 8:50 PM, David Christopher Chipman wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> I don't know if anyone on here does any video encoding, but can anyone >> tell me why it is that so many people insist on adding the black bars >> to their videos? It's amazing how many people I run into who cannot >> seem to grasp the difference between 4:3, 16:9 and panoramic. They >> think if a movie is widescreen, ie. 16:9, they need to add the black >> bars to 'pad' the video...why? >> >> Are their TV's wrong? Their computer displays? I've had all kinds of >> TV's, old CRT and flat screen, I've never, ever, needed to mess with >> video to make it display properly. Ever. >> >> > > Hey there, > > It's not the end user's fault, really. It has to do with the fact that the > aspect ratios for some video content is not that same as broadcast TV, which > "most" monitors are designed for. That's why the black bars are there. Other > wise they have to pan-and-scan the source image, to look at "important" > things. OK? > No, because I'm not asking about video content that has non-standard aspects. I'm asking about people who take video content that _is_ in a standard 16:9 aspect, and pad it so that it is 4:3. There is _never_ a good reason to do this, yet people persist. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 04:25:49 2010 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 00:25:49 -0400 Subject: OT: Email recall - What was the point? In-Reply-To: <20100525152749.GL17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100525152749.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <201005270025.49646.amarjan@pobox.com> On May 25, 2010 11:27:49 am you wrote: > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:12:02AM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > > Once in a while, I get to assist someone who need recalling a mail. I > > have never seen one work. Personally, I would not even bother with it. > > However, it look like everybody know about the feature which mean it > > was well marketed, so the best way is to attempt it so that the user > > does not blame us for not attempting it. > > > > Which bring the question, why did Microsoft ever place such a useless > > feature on their application? When was it ever able to work? I > > suspect it was only for local mail, but they should have put the > > disclaimer along the feature > > > > Anyway, not really a question, but a morning rant. > > I have only ever heard of the feature on outlook, so yes it almost > certainly only works with exchange and probably only locally. If it worked with Exchange, then it might actually be an 80% solution instead of the 20% solution that it actually is. I suppose MS may have finally fixed this, but it used to be the case that the recall emails were processed exclusively by the Outlook client some seconds *or minutes* after receipt of the recall message. If they'd made the damned mail server handle things, you wouldn't have "recalled" messages sitting around in people's inboxes for so long. Personally I think the first few versions of Outlook were designed and built by drunken co-op students. Certainly they weren't done by anyone who understood email, or desktop applications. > Users really ought to clue into the fact that once you send an email, > it is sent and there is no undo or recall because it is now on someone > elses server and it isn't your decision anymore. I thought the French military had added this functionality to Trustedbird, but it turns out they didn't even try, and instead added notification on message deletion: http://www.trustedbird.org/tb/MDN_Extended -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 07:14:20 2010 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 03:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 26 May 2010, Thomas Milne wrote: > I don't know if anyone on here does any video encoding, but can anyone > tell me why it is that so many people insist on adding the black bars > to their videos? It's amazing how many people I run into who cannot > seem to grasp the difference between 4:3, 16:9 and panoramic. They > think if a movie is widescreen, ie. 16:9, they need to add the black > bars to 'pad' the video...why? > > Are their TV's wrong? Their computer displays? I've had all kinds of > TV's, old CRT and flat screen, I've never, ever, needed to mess with > video to make it display properly. Ever. I can think of two reasons. (1) Someone wants to merge two videos together, where each video is in a different aspect ratio. (2) The encoding is being made for the lowest common denominator 4:3 output display. Some simple 4:3 output displays do not understand aspect ratios. They will always display fullscreen by: (a) zooming the image until the vertical is maximized and thus cropping the sides. (b) stretching the image horizontally and vertically until there are no bars. -- Eric B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 13:59:17 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:59:17 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Eric Battersby wrote: > On Wed, 26 May 2010, Thomas Milne wrote: > >> I don't know if anyone on here does any video encoding, but can anyone >> tell me why it is that so many people insist on adding the black bars >> to their videos? It's amazing how many people I run into who cannot >> seem to grasp the difference between 4:3, 16:9 and panoramic. They >> think if a movie is widescreen, ie. 16:9, they need to add the black >> bars to 'pad' the video...why? >> >> Are their TV's wrong? Their computer displays? I've had all kinds of >> TV's, old CRT and flat screen, I've never, ever, needed to mess with >> video to make it display properly. Ever. > > > I can think of two reasons. > (1) Someone wants to merge two videos together, where each > ? ?video is in a different aspect ratio. That I could understand, but the situations I'm running into are single episodes. > (2) The encoding is being made for the lowest common > ? ?denominator 4:3 output display. > > ? ?Some simple 4:3 output displays do not understand > ? ?aspect ratios. ?They will always display fullscreen by: > ? ?(a) zooming the image until the vertical is maximized and > ? ? ? ?thus cropping the sides. > ? ?(b) stretching the image horizontally and vertically until > ? ? ? ?there are no bars. > Who sells such garbage? Wow, well, that at least explains their motivation. Unfortunately, they don't seem to understand that no one appreciates their 'efforts'. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 15:34:54 2010 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 11:34:54 -0400 Subject: OT: Linksys 610n listed as Tom's Hardware 2010 Recommended Buy Message-ID: <4BFE911E.7090702@gmail.com> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/802.11n-wireless-router-access-point,2605-20.html Best Buy has it for $150, so yes it's pricey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 15:42:34 2010 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 11:42:34 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: <4BFDC1E7.3050500@ican.net> Message-ID: <4BFE92EA.9010501@linuxcaffe.ca> On 10-05-26 09:42 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 8:50 PM, David Christopher Chipman > wrote: >> Thomas Milne wrote: >> It's not the end user's fault, really. It has to do with the fact that the >> aspect ratios for some video content is not that same as broadcast TV, which >> "most" monitors are designed for. That's why the black bars are there. Other >> wise they have to pan-and-scan the source image, to look at "important" >> things. OK? >> > > No, because I'm not asking about video content that has non-standard > aspects. I'm asking about people who take video content that _is_ in a > standard 16:9 aspect, and pad it so that it is 4:3. There is _never_ a > good reason to do this, yet people persist. Ahhhh so wrong :) You may be correct that there is endless confusion regarding aspect ratios, but you assertion that there is NEVER a good reason to do this, puts you in the camp of the confused. If the original format differs from the display format, you have only a few choices; "letterbox" the image so that you see the whole picture (hence black bars) or the film can be subjected to "pan and scan" (where the image is shifted left and right to keep the important parts of the action visible, loose the non-overlapping image areas entirely, or go buy a monitor that matches the original aspect ratio (only available in 16:9, not 1:185 cinemascope or any of the myriad cinema formats) Letterboxing is a necessary evil, and you can blame the history of filmmaking and the lack of standardization. djp > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 16:15:08 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:15:08 -0400 Subject: OT: Linksys 610n listed as Tom's Hardware 2010 Recommended Buy In-Reply-To: <4BFE911E.7090702-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFE911E.7090702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100527121508.32534cd1.tleslie@tcn.net> nice performance, but in reasearching it (as i need a new wireless router), the E3000 is the replacement, also linux (i believe). And seems about the same price, so maybe better deals can be had for the 610. tl On Thu, 27 May 2010 11:34:54 -0400 Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/802.11n-wireless-router-access-point,2605-20.html > > Best Buy has it for $150, so yes it's pricey. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 16:38:01 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Linksys 610n listed as Tom's Hardware 2010 Recommended Buy In-Reply-To: <4BFE911E.7090702-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFE911E.7090702@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Ivan Avery Frey | http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/802.11n-wireless-router-access-point,2605-20.html | | Best Buy has it for $150, so yes it's pricey. There is a lot to like about this router (on paper -- I've never used one). My recollection is: 1) Broadcom inside so not great for 3rd party firmware. 2) Sig Electronics offers it under "make us an offer". Out of stock at now but they had it a week or two ago. I have no idea if they will restock. I have reason to believe that they would accept an offer of $120. Their regular price is $149.99. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 16:44:15 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:44:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Linksys 610n listed as Tom's Hardware 2010 Recommended Buy In-Reply-To: References: <4BFE911E.7090702@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:38 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Ivan Avery Frey > > | http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/802.11n-wireless-router-access-point,2605-20.html > | > | Best Buy has it for $150, so yes it's pricey. > > There is a lot to like about this router (on paper -- I've never used > one). > > My recollection is: > > 1) Broadcom inside so not great for 3rd party firmware. > > 2) Sig Electronics offers it under "make us an offer". ?Out of stock > ? at now but they had it a week or two ago. ?I have no idea if they > ? will restock. ?I have reason to believe that they would accept an > ? offer of $120. ?Their regular price is $149.99. > ? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > You can probably go as low as 119.99 :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 17:30:35 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:30:35 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100527173035.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 08:34:36PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > I don't know if anyone on here does any video encoding, but can anyone > tell me why it is that so many people insist on adding the black bars > to their videos? It's amazing how many people I run into who cannot > seem to grasp the difference between 4:3, 16:9 and panoramic. They > think if a movie is widescreen, ie. 16:9, they need to add the black > bars to 'pad' the video...why? > > Are their TV's wrong? Their computer displays? I've had all kinds of > TV's, old CRT and flat screen, I've never, ever, needed to mess with > video to make it display properly. Ever. I strangely have never run into a video that had black bars in the video stream itself. Can't be that common a problem. Obviously you just include the actual video in the stream along with the header indicating the resolution and aspect ratio to use for playback and the player does the rest. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 17:30:47 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:30:47 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: <4BFE92EA.9010501-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFDC1E7.3050500@ican.net> <4BFE92EA.9010501@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:42 AM, David J Patrick wrote: > On 10-05-26 09:42 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 8:50 PM, David Christopher Chipman >> ?wrote: >>> >>> Thomas Milne wrote: >>> It's not the end user's fault, really. It has to do with the fact that >>> the >>> aspect ratios for some video content is not that same as broadcast TV, >>> which >>> "most" monitors are designed for. That's why the black bars are there. >>> Other >>> wise they have to pan-and-scan the source image, to look at "important" >>> things. OK? >>> >> >> No, because I'm not asking about video content that has non-standard >> aspects. I'm asking about people who take video content that _is_ in a >> standard 16:9 aspect, and pad it so that it is 4:3. There is _never_ a >> good reason to do this, yet people persist. > > Ahhhh so wrong :) > You may be correct that there is endless confusion regarding aspect ratios, > but you assertion that there is NEVER a good reason to do this, puts you in > the camp of the confused. If the original format differs from the display > format, you have only a few choices; "letterbox" the image so that you see > the whole picture (hence black bars) or the film can be subjected to "pan > and scan" (where the image is shifted left and right to keep the important > parts of the action visible, loose the non-overlapping image areas entirely, > or go buy a monitor that matches the original aspect ratio (only available > in 16:9, not 1:185 cinemascope or any of the myriad cinema formats) > > Letterboxing is a necessary evil, and you can blame the history of > filmmaking and the lack of standardization. > djp >> I am not confused at all. What I meant was: if the original is in a _standard aspect_, there is no _good_ reason to add the black bars, because any TV or display built by a non-clueless person will display the picture properly, ie the _display_ will show 'black bars' where there is _no image_. I am talking about people deliberately adding black bars to the video during encoding, not the fact that the display might show black where there is no image. Of course that is normal, I'm not an f'n idiot. I regularly display all standard formats on my LCD monitor and on my plasma TV, and previously on my old CRT TV, and not one of them ever required the addition of black bars. I've been doing more reading on this, and here is the expert consensus: If you need to add black bars, it's because the video is either in a non-standard aspect, or your display is a cheap piece of crap. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 17:34:08 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:34:08 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: <4BFE92EA.9010501-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFDC1E7.3050500@ican.net> <4BFE92EA.9010501@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <20100527173408.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:42:34AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Ahhhh so wrong :) > You may be correct that there is endless confusion regarding aspect > ratios, but you assertion that there is NEVER a good reason to do this, > puts you in the camp of the confused. If the original format differs > from the display format, you have only a few choices; "letterbox" the > image so that you see the whole picture (hence black bars) or the film > can be subjected to "pan and scan" (where the image is shifted left and > right to keep the important parts of the action visible, loose the > non-overlapping image areas entirely, or go buy a monitor that matches > the original aspect ratio (only available in 16:9, not 1:185 cinemascope > or any of the myriad cinema formats) > > Letterboxing is a necessary evil, and you can blame the history of > filmmaking and the lack of standardization. Letterboxing is required by the display (ie DVD players add it, not the DVD itself). Broadcast is a different situation. Now if someone takes a broadcast signal which is letterboxed and encodes that, then yes they would be also encoding the black bars. In no other cases is there a good reason for a video file to contain black bars. Video files should contain just the content (without black bars) and the info about the proper aspect ratio so that the player software can decide whether black bars are needed or not on the display it is using. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 17:34:36 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:34:36 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: <20100527173035.GX17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100527173035.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 08:34:36PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> I don't know if anyone on here does any video encoding, but can anyone >> tell me why it is that so many people insist on adding the black bars >> to their videos? It's amazing how many people I run into who cannot >> seem to grasp the difference between 4:3, 16:9 and panoramic. They >> think if a movie is widescreen, ie. 16:9, they need to add the black >> bars to 'pad' the video...why? >> >> Are their TV's wrong? Their computer displays? I've had all kinds of >> TV's, old CRT and flat screen, I've never, ever, needed to mess with >> video to make it display properly. Ever. > > I strangely have never run into a video that had black bars in the video > stream itself. ?Can't be that common a problem. Unfortunately, it's getting worse lately, perhaps because a lot of amateurs are getting involved, and people using crappy equipment/software. > Obviously you just include the actual video in the stream along with the > header indicating the resolution and aspect ratio to use for playback > and the player does the rest. > EXACTLY, thank you. I have to admit, I was kinda waiting for you to weigh in on this ;) I can't complain _too much_, because the videos I'm talking about are not 'legitimate'. I just didn't realize there were actually displays out there that were such bad quality. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 17:45:45 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:45:45 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: <4BFDC1E7.3050500@ican.net> <4BFE92EA.9010501@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <20100527134545.b637877f.tleslie@tcn.net> i think you may be right, the only defense of some might be that given the RLE compression of most or all compression codec, the all black compresses into just about nothing. i.e. repeat that (all black alphabet symbol), 1000's of times at start and end, it might be an extremely extremely small fraction of the stream/file size, but again, i can't really see a need to do it myself unless you know your targetting a stupid device. tl > If you need to add black bars, it's because the video is either in a > non-standard aspect, or your display is a cheap piece of crap. > > -- > TBM > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 17:49:08 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:49:08 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: <20100527173035.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100527174908.GZ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 01:34:36PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > Unfortunately, it's getting worse lately, perhaps because a lot of > amateurs are getting involved, and people using crappy > equipment/software. Perhaps. I still suspect encoding files recorded from TV that was broadcasting letter boxed. I really hope that's all it is. > EXACTLY, thank you. I have to admit, I was kinda waiting for you to > weigh in on this ;) > > I can't complain _too much_, because the videos I'm talking about are > not 'legitimate'. I just didn't realize there were actually displays > out there that were such bad quality. I really hope this only happens where people encode the broadcast signal (or perhaps video camera image if in a theatre). Since the video contains the aspect ratio of the broadcast or video recorder in that case, the black bars would be part of the video stream and were never actually added by the person encoding the file. In any other case it would be just wrong. For example: $ ffprobe 5yrs-linux_1080p_loq.mp4 FFprobe version SVN-r92, Copyright (c) 2007-2009 Stefano Sabatini libavutil 49.15. 0 / 49.15. 0 libavcodec 52.20. 0 / 52.67. 0 libavformat 52.31. 0 / 52.62. 0 built on Jan 30 2010 11:08:30, gcc: 4.4.3 Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from '5yrs-linux_1080p_loq.mp4': Metadata: major_brand : isom minor_version : 512 compatible_brands: isomiso2avc1mp41 encoder : Lavf52.61.0 Duration: 01:20:05.05, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 15262 kb/s Stream #0.0(und): Video: h264, yuv420p, 1920x1080 [PAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 15002 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 25 tbn, 50 tbc Stream #0.1(und): Audio: ac3, 48000 Hz, 2 channels, s16, 256 kb/s So it says that's a 1920x1080 file, with a pixel aspect ratio of 1:1 (square pixels are nice, although a few things like DVDs sometimes have retangular pixels). The overall disaply aspect ratio is 16:9. So the player is responsible for deciding if the pixels needs scaling up or down and the player is responsible for making sure that on the display it outputs to the result of the video content is 16:9 aspect. It can cut the sides or add black or pink bars if it needs to, but the data in the file itself is to be treated as 16:9 and nothing else. If a file contained black bars in the video itself, then it would almost certainly be a 16:9 or similar video encoded as 4:3 with black bars in the data. Now the player can only know that this is a 4:3 video, and it the display happens to be 16:9 or 16:10 the player has to add bars to the side of the video so now you end up with a video taking up 1/4 of the screen in the center with bars all around. That's why a video file should NEVER have black bars in the content. So if you add them, you are an idiot. If they are already there because you are capturing letter boxed video from a TV broadcast, well then I guess you are stuck with them unless you use clever software to cut off the black bars before encoding. Letter boxing should always be added by the player, not the encoder because only the player knows what the display is actually capable of. TV broadcasts being the exception, because they only have a fixed set of resolutions they can broadcast at. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 17:58:33 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:58:33 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: <20100527174908.GZ17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100527173035.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100527174908.GZ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 01:34:36PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> Unfortunately, it's getting worse lately, perhaps because a lot of >> amateurs are getting involved, and people using crappy >> equipment/software. > > Perhaps. ?I still suspect encoding files recorded from TV that was > broadcasting letter boxed. ?I really hope that's all it is. > >> EXACTLY, thank you. I have to admit, I was kinda waiting for you to >> weigh in on this ;) >> >> I can't complain _too much_, because the videos I'm talking about are >> not 'legitimate'. I just didn't realize there were actually displays >> out there that were such bad quality. > > I really hope this only happens where people encode the broadcast signal > (or perhaps video camera image if in a theatre). ?Since the video contains > the aspect ratio of the broadcast or video recorder in that case, the > black bars would be part of the video stream and were never actually > added by the person encoding the file. ?In any other case it would be > just wrong. > > For example: > > $ ffprobe 5yrs-linux_1080p_loq.mp4 > FFprobe version SVN-r92, Copyright (c) 2007-2009 Stefano Sabatini > ?libavutil ? ? 49.15. 0 / 49.15. 0 > ?libavcodec ? ?52.20. 0 / 52.67. 0 > ?libavformat ? 52.31. 0 / 52.62. 0 > ?built on Jan 30 2010 11:08:30, gcc: 4.4.3 > Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from '5yrs-linux_1080p_loq.mp4': > ?Metadata: > ? ?major_brand ? ? : isom > ? ?minor_version ? : 512 > ? ?compatible_brands: isomiso2avc1mp41 > ? ?encoder ? ? ? ? : Lavf52.61.0 > ?Duration: 01:20:05.05, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 15262 kb/s > ? ?Stream #0.0(und): Video: h264, yuv420p, 1920x1080 [PAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 15002 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 25 tbn, 50 tbc > ? ?Stream #0.1(und): Audio: ac3, 48000 Hz, 2 channels, s16, 256 kb/s > > So it says that's a 1920x1080 file, with a pixel aspect ratio of 1:1 > (square pixels are nice, although a few things like DVDs sometimes > have retangular pixels). ?The overall disaply aspect ratio is 16:9. > So the player is responsible for deciding if the pixels needs scaling > up or down and the player is responsible for making sure that on the > display it outputs to the result of the video content is 16:9 aspect. > It can cut the sides or add black or pink bars if it needs to, but the > data in the file itself is to be treated as 16:9 and nothing else. > > If a file contained black bars in the video itself, then it would almost > certainly be a 16:9 or similar video encoded as 4:3 with black bars in > the data. ?Now the player can only know that this is a 4:3 video, and > it the display happens to be 16:9 or 16:10 the player has to add bars > to the side of the video so now you end up with a video taking up 1/4 of > the screen in the center with bars all around. ?That's why a video file > should NEVER have black bars in the content. ?So if you add them, you > are an idiot. ?If they are already there because you are capturing letter > boxed video from a TV broadcast, well then I guess you are stuck with them > unless you use clever software to cut off the black bars before encoding. > > Letter boxing should always be added by the player, not the encoder > because only the player knows what the display is actually capable of. > > TV broadcasts being the exception, because they only have a fixed set > of resolutions they can broadcast at. > Okay, that makes sense. What I'm seeing, I guess, is people uploading shows that are supposed to be 16:9, but wherever this show is coming from they're broadcasting a 4:3 stream, therefore the black bars are part of the stream to compensate. The people doing this are probably completely unaware of what they're doing, because with their display it looks 'normal'. Still, it causes havoc with real 16:9 displays because I end up with a 16:9 image, with black bars 'squashing' it so it's more like 2.33:1. Unwatchable, of course. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 17:59:31 2010 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:59:31 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: <4BFDC1E7.3050500@ican.net> <4BFE92EA.9010501@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4BFEB303.1090902@linuxcaffe.ca> On 10-05-27 01:30 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I am not confused at all. > > What I meant was: if the original is in a _standard aspect_, there is > no _good_ reason to add the black bars, because any TV or display > built by a non-clueless person will display the picture properly, ie > the _display_ will show 'black bars' where there is _no image_. when you say "standard" do you mean 4:3, 16:9 or 1:1.85, because they're all standards and all in common use. > > I am talking about people deliberately adding black bars to the video > during encoding, not the fact that the display might show black where > there is no image. that IS stupid Of course that is normal, I'm not an f'n idiot. ok, just checking ;) To demonstrate how stupid even "technical" people can be, I did a job as cinematographer for a Telus internal corporate video, we shot it in 16:9 to be displayed on big 16:9 monitors. The job went swell and everything looked great, but the next job, when I went back to corporate headquarters, I saw the video playing and almost shit myself; they had, in a later post stage, squashed the 16:9 to 4:3 (making everyone stretched and distorted) and then added black bars to THE SIDES TO make it 16:9.. total debauchery ! So if the big-brained Telus video team were such f'n idjits.. it's pervasive stupidity. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 18:07:45 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 14:07:45 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: <4BFEB303.1090902-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFDC1E7.3050500@ican.net> <4BFE92EA.9010501@linuxcaffe.ca> <4BFEB303.1090902@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:59 PM, David J Patrick wrote: > On 10-05-27 01:30 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> I am not confused at all. >> >> What I meant was: if the original is in a _standard aspect_, there is >> no _good_ reason to add the black bars, because any TV or display >> built by a non-clueless person will display the picture properly, ie >> the _display_ will show 'black bars' where there is _no image_. > > when you say "standard" do you mean 4:3, 16:9 or 1:1.85, because they're all > standards and all in common use. Exactly. >> >> I am talking about people deliberately adding black bars to the video >> during encoding, not the fact that the display might show black where >> there is no image. > > that IS stupid >> ?Of course that is normal, I'm not an f'n idiot. > ok, just checking ;) lol! > To demonstrate how stupid even "technical" people can be, I did a job as > cinematographer for a Telus internal corporate video, we shot it in 16:9 to > be displayed on big 16:9 monitors. > > The job went swell and everything looked great, but the next job, when I > went back to corporate headquarters, I saw the video playing and almost shit > myself; they had, in a later post stage, squashed the 16:9 to 4:3 (making > everyone stretched and distorted) and then added black bars to THE SIDES TO > make it 16:9.. total debauchery ! > So if the big-brained Telus video team were such f'n idjits.. it's pervasive > stupidity. > djp ...but, if they just left it the way it was...I... How did you not choke them?? -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 18:12:30 2010 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 14:12:30 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: <4BFDC1E7.3050500@ican.net> <4BFE92EA.9010501@linuxcaffe.ca> <4BFEB303.1090902@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4BFEB60E.6060600@linuxcaffe.ca> On 10-05-27 02:07 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: >> The job went swell and everything looked great, but the next job, when I >> went back to corporate headquarters, I saw the video playing and almost shit >> myself; they had, in a later post stage, squashed the 16:9 to 4:3 (making >> everyone stretched and distorted) and then added black bars to THE SIDES TO >> make it 16:9.. total debauchery ! >> So if the big-brained Telus video team were such f'n idjits.. it's pervasive >> stupidity. >> djp > > ...but, if they just left it the way it was...I... exactly; morons > > How did you not choke them?? I've found that choking clients, as much as they often need it, is counter-productive. Instead, I just lost a bit of faith in humanity and reminded myself "it's a service industry, it's a service industry" yes, a little part of me died that day, djp > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 18:17:09 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 14:17:09 -0400 Subject: OT: Linksys 610n listed as Tom's Hardware 2010 Recommended Buy In-Reply-To: <4BFE911E.7090702-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFE911E.7090702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100527181709.GA17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:34:54AM -0400, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/802.11n-wireless-router-access-point,2605-20.html > > Best Buy has it for $150, so yes it's pricey. Featurewise it seems similar to the Dlink DIR-825. I have not tried a 610n, but other linksys routers have always been very hot, which the dlink certainly isn't. The DIR-825 is a 680MHz MIPS. The 610n is a 300MHz MIPS. The DIR-825 is atheros based. The 610n is broadcom. I personally will not buy stuff with broadcom chips in it if I can avoid it. They really seem to hate open source and customers in general. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 18:19:04 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 14:19:04 -0400 Subject: OT: Linksys 610n listed as Tom's Hardware 2010 Recommended Buy In-Reply-To: <20100527181709.GA17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFE911E.7090702@gmail.com> <20100527181709.GA17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100527181904.GB17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 02:17:09PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:34:54AM -0400, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > > http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/802.11n-wireless-router-access-point,2605-20.html > > > > Best Buy has it for $150, so yes it's pricey. > > Featurewise it seems similar to the Dlink DIR-825. > > I have not tried a 610n, but other linksys routers have always been very > hot, which the dlink certainly isn't. > > The DIR-825 is a 680MHz MIPS. The 610n is a 300MHz MIPS. The DIR-825 is > atheros based. The 610n is broadcom. I personally will not buy stuff > with broadcom chips in it if I can avoid it. They really seem to hate > open source and customers in general. Also openwrt lists the DIR-825 as supported. The 610n is a work in progress. Broadcom stuff seems to always be a work in progress due to the reverse engineering work always required on their chips. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 18:23:01 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 14:23:01 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: <20100527173035.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100527174908.GZ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100527182301.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 01:58:33PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > Okay, that makes sense. What I'm seeing, I guess, is people uploading > shows that are supposed to be 16:9, but wherever this show is coming > from they're broadcasting a 4:3 stream, therefore the black bars are > part of the stream to compensate. The people doing this are probably > completely unaware of what they're doing, because with their display > it looks 'normal'. > > Still, it causes havoc with real 16:9 displays because I end up with a > 16:9 image, with black bars 'squashing' it so it's more like 2.33:1. > Unwatchable, of course. What you should be getting is black bars all around the picture. It should not be squashed. If it is squashed then your display or player is doing the wrong thing, or the meta data on the file is wrong (and it should then display wrong for everyone including the person that made it). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 18:31:37 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 11:31:37 -0700 Subject: "clickfree" USB HDD Message-ID: We recently got some of these at work. When they're plugged in, they show up with a small "47mb" filesystem with the software that autoruns in windows, as well as a regular drive. The small filesystem appears to show as a ISO9660 drive (fake CD-ROM drive?). I'm guessing that it's just a little bit of flash memory, perhaps an embedded SD card or something similar. If it's a ROM chip I'm guessing it can't be changed. Alternately, anyone know of a way I might overwrite that little area of flash drive with something useful (like a rescue image)? -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 18:32:47 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 14:32:47 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: <20100527182301.GC17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100527173035.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100527174908.GZ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100527182301.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 01:58:33PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> Okay, that makes sense. What I'm seeing, I guess, is people uploading >> shows that are supposed to be 16:9, but wherever this show is coming >> from they're broadcasting a 4:3 stream, therefore the black bars are >> part of the stream to compensate. The people doing this are probably >> completely unaware of what they're doing, because with their display >> it looks 'normal'. >> >> Still, it causes havoc with real 16:9 displays because I end up with a >> 16:9 image, with black bars 'squashing' it so it's more like 2.33:1. >> Unwatchable, of course. > > What you should be getting is black bars all around the picture. > It should not be squashed. ?If it is squashed then your display or player > is doing the wrong thing, or the meta data on the file is wrong (and it > should then display wrong for everyone including the person that made it). > You're right. The video that prompted this comment was _really_ bad. What the person had done, I think in response to a comment I made on one of their previous uploads, was to 'correct' their mistake by changing the aspect of the video to 16:9 and leaving in the black bars. I don't know why they thought that would help, but...that's where we get to David's observation about the pervasiveness of stupidity I guess. ;) Normally the problem is that a video advertised as 16:9 is really 4:3 with black bars all around, as you describe. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 18:32:49 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 14:32:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: two bargains? MB+CPU; 1U server Message-ID: NewEgg.ca's "Shell Shocker" (one-day deal) looks reasonable: Biostar Motherboard + AMD Athlon II X2 240 processor for $84.98, free shipping. $10 Mail In Rebate (the 84.98 price is without the rebate; they, of course, quote 74.98). Dell's "SMB Days" (a few one-day deals, in sequence) today includes a PowerEdge R210 server with no OS for what looks to me to be a good price, $899. I don't know much about rack-mount servers except that they are too noisy for my house. I infer that the Xeon X3430 processor is like an i5. Oh, they have a massively discounted D-Link DSM-330 HD Media Player ($199.99 discounted to $59.99). I think that this line has been eclipsed by the WDTV-Live, Asus OPlay, Patriot Box Office, etc. All these things run Linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 18:37:30 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 14:37:30 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: <20100527173035.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100527174908.GZ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100527182301.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 01:58:33PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >>> Okay, that makes sense. What I'm seeing, I guess, is people uploading >>> shows that are supposed to be 16:9, but wherever this show is coming >>> from they're broadcasting a 4:3 stream, therefore the black bars are >>> part of the stream to compensate. The people doing this are probably >>> completely unaware of what they're doing, because with their display >>> it looks 'normal'. >>> >>> Still, it causes havoc with real 16:9 displays because I end up with a >>> 16:9 image, with black bars 'squashing' it so it's more like 2.33:1. >>> Unwatchable, of course. >> >> What you should be getting is black bars all around the picture. >> It should not be squashed. ?If it is squashed then your display or player >> is doing the wrong thing, or the meta data on the file is wrong (and it >> should then display wrong for everyone including the person that made it). >> > > You're right. The video that prompted this comment was _really_ bad. > What the person had done, I think in response to a comment I made on > one of their previous uploads, was to 'correct' their mistake by > changing the aspect of the video to 16:9 and leaving in the black > bars. I don't know why they thought that would help, but...that's > where we get to David's observation about the pervasiveness of > stupidity I guess. ;) > > Normally the problem is that a video advertised as 16:9 is really 4:3 > with black bars all around, as you describe. > I would just like to further add that HDMI is the greatest thing ever. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 18:44:49 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 11:44:49 -0700 Subject: two bargains? MB+CPU; 1U server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:32 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > NewEgg.ca's "Shell Shocker" (one-day deal) looks reasonable: > Biostar Motherboard + AMD Athlon II X2 240 processor for $84.98, free > shipping. ?$10 Mail In Rebate (the 84.98 price is without the rebate; > they, of course, quote 74.98). > > > Dell's "SMB Days" (a few one-day deals, in sequence) today includes a > PowerEdge R210 server with no OS for what looks to me to be a good > price, $899. ?I don't know much about rack-mount servers except that > they are too noisy for my house. ?I infer that the Xeon X3430 > processor is like an i5. > > > Oh, they have a massively discounted D-Link DSM-330 HD Media Player > ($199.99 discounted to $59.99). ?I think that this line has been > eclipsed by the WDTV-Live, Asus OPlay, Patriot Box Office, etc. ?All > these things run Linux. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I may be reading it wrong, but it looks like the media player grabs files from computer(s) on your network so that they can be streamed, but doesn't actually have a drive of it's one? Other than the wireless, I've seen a few different devices that work similarly but also have the HDD, like this: http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=43886&vpn=90-YTM60210-UAL0MZ&manufacture=ASUS If you've got a samba server running constantly though, that DSM-330 might work nicely. Too bad I couldn't find anything on custom firmware for it, since it might be a fun hacking project. - Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 18:49:59 2010 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 14:49:59 -0400 Subject: "clickfree" USB HDD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you sure it is two separate pieces of physical storage, and not two partitions of the same drive? Either way, have you had a look at it with something like gparted? On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > We recently got some of these at work. When they're plugged in, they > show up with a small "47mb" filesystem with the software that autoruns > in windows, as well as a regular drive. > The small filesystem appears to show as a ISO9660 drive (fake CD-ROM > drive?). I'm guessing that it's just a little bit of flash memory, > perhaps an embedded SD card or something similar. > > If it's a ROM chip I'm guessing it can't be changed. Alternately, > anyone know of a way I might overwrite that little area of flash drive > with something useful (like a rescue image)? > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA > > ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 19:00:42 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:00:42 -0700 Subject: "clickfree" USB HDD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Jon VanAlten wrote: > Are you sure it is two separate pieces of physical storage, and not > two partitions of the same drive? ?Either way, have you had a look at > it with something like gparted? > > On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> We recently got some of these at work. When they're plugged in, they >> show up with a small "47mb" filesystem with the software that autoruns >> in windows, as well as a regular drive. >> The small filesystem appears to show as a ISO9660 drive (fake CD-ROM >> drive?). I'm guessing that it's just a little bit of flash memory, >> perhaps an embedded SD card or something similar. >> >> If it's a ROM chip I'm guessing it can't be changed. Alternately, >> anyone know of a way I might overwrite that little area of flash drive >> with something useful (like a rescue image)? >> >> >> -- >> Tyler Aviss >> Systems Support >> LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA >> >> ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I get an sr1 (the 46MB ROM) and a 250GB /dev/sdb (the drive). Here's what the log shows when it plugs in: [2505116.870308] usb 2-1: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 15 [2505117.031585] usb 2-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice [2505117.032786] scsi19 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices [2505117.033022] usb-storage: device found at 15 [2505117.033027] usb-storage: waiting for device to settle before scanning [2505122.032061] usb-storage: device scan complete [2505122.032840] scsi 19:0:0:0: Direct-Access SAC SAC-Click free 7.31 PQ: 0 ANSI: 0 [2505122.033299] scsi 19:0:0:1: CD-ROM SAC Virtual Cdrom 7.31 PQ: 0 ANSI: 0 CCS [2505122.034162] sd 19:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0 [2505122.035922] sr1: scsi3-mmc drive: 1x/52x cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray [2505122.036192] sr 19:0:0:1: Attached scsi CD-ROM sr1 [2505122.036314] sr 19:0:0:1: Attached scsi generic sg3 type 5 [2505122.045877] sd 19:0:0:0: [sdb] 487987199 512-byte logical blocks: (249 GB/232 GiB) [2505122.051356] sd 19:0:0:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off [2505122.051360] sd 19:0:0:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 23 00 00 00 [2505122.051362] sd 19:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through [2505122.055885] sd 19:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through [2505122.055892] sdb: sdb1 [2505122.132588] sd 19:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through [2505122.132600] sd 19:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk [2505122.671401] ISO 9660 Extensions: Microsoft Joliet Level 1 [2505122.671901] ISOFS: changing to secondary root -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 20:03:27 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 16:03:27 -0400 Subject: two bargains? MB+CPU; 1U server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100527200327.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 02:32:49PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > NewEgg.ca's "Shell Shocker" (one-day deal) looks reasonable: > Biostar Motherboard + AMD Athlon II X2 240 processor for $84.98, free > shipping. $10 Mail In Rebate (the 84.98 price is without the rebate; > they, of course, quote 74.98). > Not sure about Biostar boards. Never dealt with them. The CPU is sold out however so it probably doesn't matter. I guess they wanted to clear out the old leftovers and seem to have succeeded. > Dell's "SMB Days" (a few one-day deals, in sequence) today includes a > PowerEdge R210 server with no OS for what looks to me to be a good > price, $899. I don't know much about rack-mount servers except that > they are too noisy for my house. I infer that the Xeon X3430 > processor is like an i5. > Well I know enough to not buy any computer that says Dell on it. Monitors and some other parts are great from Dell, but I will not touch their computers or printers. > Oh, they have a massively discounted D-Link DSM-330 HD Media Player > ($199.99 discounted to $59.99). I think that this line has been > eclipsed by the WDTV-Live, Asus OPlay, Patriot Box Office, etc. All > these things run Linux. > No idea. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 20:07:57 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 16:07:57 -0400 Subject: "clickfree" USB HDD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100527200757.GE17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:31:37AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > We recently got some of these at work. When they're plugged in, they > show up with a small "47mb" filesystem with the software that autoruns > in windows, as well as a regular drive. > The small filesystem appears to show as a ISO9660 drive (fake CD-ROM > drive?). I'm guessing that it's just a little bit of flash memory, > perhaps an embedded SD card or something similar. > > If it's a ROM chip I'm guessing it can't be changed. Alternately, > anyone know of a way I might overwrite that little area of flash drive > with something useful (like a rescue image)? My sandisk usb key did that. Part of its U3 feature. They had a program available that you could run (on windows) that disabled that feature. It simply used a part of the flash space to store the readonly bit, so turning the stupid feature off simple freed a bit of space for the rest of the usb key and made it work normally. The U3 thing is meant to handle special applications that run from the usb drive and store all settings there, so intended to run secure firefox versions with custom settings on public PCs and such. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 27 20:24:29 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 16:24:29 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: <20100527173035.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100527174908.GZ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100527182301.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100527202429.GF17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 02:37:30PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > I would just like to further add that HDMI is the greatest thing ever. Other than the patents and royalties it demands per port. It is rather convinient though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 00:27:42 2010 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: DDR RAM more expensive than DDR2 RAM? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <420026.88865.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I went to Spadina and College area looking for a RAM to upgrade an old laptop. To my surprise, I found out that the older and slower DDR module is way more expensive than the newer and better DDR2. The guys explained the pricing in terms of demand and supply. However, I had expected the demand for memory upgrade to be highly elastic which means higher price will discourage people from upgrading (specially in the light of getting a new one for at such cheap price and the complication of upgrading) and reduce the demand which in turn increases enviromental waste. EK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 00:31:18 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:31:18 -0400 Subject: DDR RAM more expensive than DDR2 RAM? In-Reply-To: <420026.88865.qm-NWMjBxHN3nH5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <420026.88865.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BFF0ED6.7040708@alteeve.com> On 10-05-27 08:27 PM, E K wrote: > I went to Spadina and College area looking for a RAM to upgrade an old laptop. To my surprise, I found out that the older and slower DDR module is way more expensive than the newer and better DDR2. > > The guys explained the pricing in terms of demand and supply. However, I had expected the demand for memory upgrade to be highly elastic which means higher price will discourage people from upgrading (specially in the light of getting a new one for at such cheap price and the complication of upgrading) and reduce the demand which in turn increases enviromental waste. > > EK Going back to the 30 pin days, I always saw RAM start expensive, drop to a point and then go back up. I've yet to see a RAM technology where it's price couldn't be graphed as a "U" shape. It's true, fewer people want the old technology. However, even less people make it, so, the price goes up. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 01:39:15 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 21:39:15 -0400 Subject: DDR RAM more expensive than DDR2 RAM? In-Reply-To: <420026.88865.qm-NWMjBxHN3nH5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <420026.88865.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:27 PM, E K wrote: > I went to Spadina and College area looking for a RAM to upgrade an old laptop. To my surprise, I found out that the older and slower DDR module is way more expensive than the newer and better DDR2. > > The guys explained the pricing in terms of demand and supply. However, I had expected the demand for memory upgrade to be highly elastic which means higher price will discourage people from upgrading (specially in the light of getting a new one for at such cheap price and the complication of upgrading) and reduce the demand which in turn increases enviromental waste. Part of the problem is not quite visible... For the older RAM, it's likely that nobody is manufacturing it anymore, which would have the result that there's no NEW supply to be had, and tend to cause the price to rise, over time. That's certainly observed with components used in military-like systems, where the suppliers frequently do some extra production runs before shutting down production because they have contracts to continue to provide the components. And once systems get into the "using new-old stock," the cost of maintaining the system tends to head up the "U" towards punitive levels. Your laptop's not being used to operate fire control systems, so the prices you see on Spadina aren't *that* high :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 03:47:54 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 23:47:54 -0400 Subject: Is Arch Linux Really Faster Than Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20100525143325.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525152558.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100525174133.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100528034754.GA25528@waltdnes.org> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 07:07:37PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote > Unfortunately, the nearest thing that happened was that Gentoo > emerged... GROAN!!! > ...and popularized twiddling with optimizer flags as indicating > that you "understand your system." I run Gentoo, and I don't make that claim. It's more valid for LFS (Linux From Scratch). Gentoo allows the end user a lot of control, including optimization, over the builds *WITHOUT* being a super geek. * I am not a C programmer. I haven't got a clue about makefiles, let alone manually building a complex program. "emerge" is a black box to me just like "rpm" and "apt-get" for Redhat and Debian. * For compiler flags, CFLAGS="-O2 -march=native -mfpmath=sse -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe" can't be beat for speed. Anybody who insists on -O3 or -O9 gets laughed at in the Gentoo forums, and their bug reports aren't accepted. * The USE variable, along with /etc/package.mask has allowed me to avoid being afflicted with crud like JAVA, PAM, HAL, and DBUS. This isn't about being a ricer; it's about having a system without a gazillion gigabytes of extra dependancies. There is a lot less running to break. One side-effect of having less garbage in memory is that programs run faster, which is nice, but it's an additional bonus, not the main goal. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 04:08:13 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 00:08:13 -0400 Subject: interesting hackable device? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 11:26 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Christopher Browne > > | Here is a link to the first readily acquirable ARM-based laptop that I've seen: > | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39391 > > It's really unfortunate for us that all this hardware innovation seems > to happen on a distant continent in a distant language. ?I don't see a > good way for us to participate in the process as anything other than > consumers. I expect DX are "takers" as opposed to "choosers," so there are still layers between there. > First things I'd change if I could: > > - clearer hardware specs > > - more open firmware > > - smaller bezels > > - at least the option of more generous RAM > > - community liaison Interestingly, the followup device, the EKEN M003, is available from the same place for $136 USD. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39448 > I don't really know what Android is. ?Linux kernel but completely > different and unique userland? More or less. It consists of: - Linux kernel, with some divergences that may yet converge back (they needed event management stuff, before the kernel folk had decided on an implementation) - Some set of C-based user space stuff. SQLite, OpenGL, Webkit, SSL, and a few others This provides a series of low level services. They then have a Java layering so that apps are deployed in Java. This has a couple of merits: - Android API includes interfaces to application services such as Phone, Contacts, web Browser, SMS messaging, so that applications can coherently manipulate these things. (Telephony, after all!) - Binaries are Java .class files, which can be expected to compile once and run on various CPU architectures That reads as a suggesting this is a reasonable way to do this; someone could certainly take a less "reasonable" reading of it all, and this might correlate with whether one considers Google to be "not evil," versus more suspicious views. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 05:44:15 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 22:44:15 -0700 Subject: two bargains? MB+CPU; 1U server In-Reply-To: References: <20100527200327.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I haven't had a biostar mobo in recent years, but the one I had years ago served faithfully. I loathe Dell desktops (non-standard parts, highly expensive replacements, often crappy mobos), but we have mostly Dell servers at work, and they've been pretty solid, not to mention speedy parts delivery, RMA (a few flakey drives) etc. There's a definite divide between their corporate and consumer service/components. On 2010-05-27 1:03 PM, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 02:32:49PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > NewEgg.ca's "Shell Shocker" (o... Not sure about Biostar boards. Never dealt with them. The CPU is sold out however so it probably doesn't matter. I guess they wanted to clear out the old leftovers and seem to have succeeded. > Dell's "SMB Days" (a few one-day deals, in sequence) today includes a > PowerEdge R210 server wit... Well I know enough to not buy any computer that says Dell on it. Monitors and some other parts are great from Dell, but I will not touch their computers or printers. > Oh, they have a massively discounted D-Link DSM-330 HD Media Player > ($199.99 discounted to $59.... No idea. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 06:23:55 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 23:23:55 -0700 Subject: DDR RAM more expensive than DDR2 RAM? In-Reply-To: References: <420026.88865.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's going to be harder to find big DIMMs for older RAM. The market actually seems a bit glutted right now, so DDR3 is actually very prevalent and easier sometimes to get deals on than even DDR2. I don't see a lot of straight DDR in stores except in some older computers, but in smaller sizes I think I have a bunch cherry in a box somewhere. Likely there may be plenty lurking on various basements and boxes. Maybe find somebody with an old PC that's getting junked for parts? On 2010-05-27 6:39 PM, "Christopher Browne" wrote: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:27 PM, E K wrote: > I went to Spadina and College area l... Part of the problem is not quite visible... For the older RAM, it's likely that nobody is manufacturing it anymore, which would have the result that there's no NEW supply to be had, and tend to cause the price to rise, over time. That's certainly observed with components used in military-like systems, where the suppliers frequently do some extra production runs before shutting down production because they have contracts to continue to provide the components. And once systems get into the "using new-old stock," the cost of maintaining the system tends to head up the "U" towards punitive levels. Your laptop's not being used to operate fire control systems, so the prices you see on Spadina aren't *that* high :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 10:58:22 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 06:58:22 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: <20100527173408.GY17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4BFDC1E7.3050500@ican.net> <4BFE92EA.9010501@linuxcaffe.ca> <20100527173408.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 27 May 2010 13:34, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Letterboxing is required by the display (ie DVD players add it, not the > DVD itself). A few, mostly early, widescreen DVDs were produced in 4:3 format with the top and bottom black bars actually added to the DVD content itself. A copy of the first Mission Impossible with Tom Cruise, that I rented, was done this way. I've also seen a few others but I can't recall the titles. It's true, though, that the vast majority of widescreen DVDs are anamorphically encoded, with a flag that indicates that black bars are to be added top and bottom for 4:3 TVs or the image should be stretched to fill the screen for 16:9 TVs. Note that on a DVD you can only indicate that the DVD is 4:3 or 16:9 so if the aspect ratio is something other than these two, e.g. the popular 2.35:1, then black bars are still added to the image itself. The same goes for Blu-ray. -- Scott A. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 13:30:29 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 09:30:29 -0400 Subject: Classroom space Message-ID: >From time to time there is talk on these lists by people who says something like "I would really like to do a workshop on X, but I don't know about a suitable space", where X can be clustering or MythTV or whatever... Well, let me note a possible option.... Last night I gave what I gather to be the first talk at FreeGeek Toronto, a group that is recycling old PC. My talk was a recycled version of the introductory talk that I have given at some of the PlanetGeek (a computer recycling group older and independent of FreeGeek Toronto) computer give aways. FreeGeek Toronto has set-up a little classroom area in a corner of the small warehouse that they use to refurbish old PCs. That classroom area can be made available for other people / groups that would be interested in doing presentations. As I understand things, if the presentation is free to attend the space is available for free, if there is a fee for the presentation then FreeGeek will want some $... Beyond that: - The classroom space is modest (expect 6 people comfortably and a max of about 10 people) - The location is near Keele and Dundas with free parking. - There are computers available (running Ubuntu Linux) and an internet connection. - At present there is no video projector in the classroom, but there is a 20" CRT monitor and a projector has been ordered (not sure when it will arrive, but I gather it will be fairly soon)... I would be happy to forward on contact details to anyone who is interested. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 14:50:11 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:50:11 -0400 Subject: two bargains? MB+CPU; 1U server In-Reply-To: References: <20100527200327.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100528145011.GG17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 10:44:15PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I haven't had a biostar mobo in recent years, but the one I had years ago > served faithfully. > > I loathe Dell desktops (non-standard parts, highly expensive replacements, > often crappy mobos), but we have mostly Dell servers at work, and they've > been pretty solid, not to mention speedy parts delivery, RMA (a few flakey > drives) etc. There's a definite divide between their corporate and consumer > service/components. Unless it is 4 or 5 years old in which case Dell will take hours to even answer if they can help you. After all, even their servers use rather non standard parts. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 14:51:09 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:51:09 -0400 Subject: DDR RAM more expensive than DDR2 RAM? In-Reply-To: <420026.88865.qm-NWMjBxHN3nH5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <420026.88865.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100528145109.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 05:27:42PM -0700, E K wrote: > I went to Spadina and College area looking for a RAM to upgrade an old laptop. To my surprise, I found out that the older and slower DDR module is way more expensive than the newer and better DDR2. > > The guys explained the pricing in terms of demand and supply. However, I had expected the demand for memory upgrade to be highly elastic which means higher price will discourage people from upgrading (specially in the light of getting a new one for at such cheap price and the complication of upgrading) and reduce the demand which in turn increases enviromental waste. Yep. Whatever ram is most commonly used is cheapest. That is NOT DDR anymore. DDR2 and increasingly DDR3 is now the standard ram. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 14:54:16 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:54:16 -0400 Subject: [OT] Why do so few people understand aspect ratios? In-Reply-To: References: <4BFDC1E7.3050500@ican.net> <4BFE92EA.9010501@linuxcaffe.ca> <20100527173408.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100528145416.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 06:58:22AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: > A few, mostly early, widescreen DVDs were produced in 4:3 format with > the top and bottom black bars actually added to the DVD content > itself. A copy of the first Mission Impossible with Tom Cruise, that I > rented, was done this way. I've also seen a few others but I can't > recall the titles. > > It's true, though, that the vast majority of widescreen DVDs are > anamorphically encoded, with a flag that indicates that black bars > are to be added top and bottom for 4:3 TVs or the image should be > stretched to fill the screen for 16:9 TVs. > > Note that on a DVD you can only indicate that the DVD is 4:3 or 16:9 > so if the aspect ratio is something other than these two, e.g. the > popular 2.35:1, then black bars are still added to the image itself. > The same goes for Blu-ray. Yeah they do have limited supported resolutions on DVD and BlueRay. At least they have more than one. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 15:09:56 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 11:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DDR RAM more expensive than DDR2 RAM? In-Reply-To: <4BFF0ED6.7040708-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <420026.88865.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4BFF0ED6.7040708@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 May 2010, Digimer wrote: > Going back to the 30 pin days, I always saw RAM start expensive, drop to a > point and then go back up. I've yet to see a RAM technology where it's price > couldn't be graphed as a "U" shape. > > It's true, fewer people want the old technology. However, even less people > make it, so, the price goes up. This exactly matches my experience since the 30 pin days as well. People coming in for older ram see the higher price, do their sums and realise that upgrading the system/motherboard offes a better deal[1]. As a result this process is a positive feedback loop. The computer industry is responsible for an enormous amount of hardware waste. [1] Newer, faster system with as much ram as they were going to buy, for not too much more. Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 15:14:00 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 11:14:00 -0400 Subject: OT: Email recall - What was the point? In-Reply-To: References: <4BFBEF39.9000908@rogers.com> <20100525122236.75501791.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4BFFDDB8.40601@ve3syb.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > If I'm writing an email and accidental sending is simply not acceptable > (eg a really serious email that I'm taking a long time to write) then I > don't address it until I'm done. I'll leave To: and CC: unset. If I > managed to fumble finger and try to send it, it won't go anywhere. Some e-mail programs (eg. Eudoram, IIRC) allow you to queue e-mail messages instead of sending them when you hit the button to say you are finished composing the message. Even that feature won't help if you get in the habit of hitting "Queue message" immediately followed by "Send queued messages". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 15:25:20 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 11:25:20 -0400 Subject: DDR RAM more expensive than DDR2 RAM? In-Reply-To: <420026.88865.qm-NWMjBxHN3nH5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <420026.88865.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BFFE060.2090901@ve3syb.ca> E K wrote: > To my surprise, I found out that the older and slower DDR module is > way more expensive than the newer and better DDR2. Really? Its been this way for a few years now, IIRC. The last time I looked at adding memory to an older machine of mine I found the DDR memory sticks were about twice the price of the DDR2 sticks with the same amount of memory. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 15:29:07 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 11:29:07 -0400 Subject: two bargains? MB+CPU; 1U server In-Reply-To: <20100528145011.GG17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100527200327.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100528145011.GG17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BFFE143.1090108@gmail.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 10:44:15PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> I haven't had a biostar mobo in recent years, but the one I had years ago >> served faithfully. >> >> I loathe Dell desktops (non-standard parts, highly expensive replacements, >> often crappy mobos), but we have mostly Dell servers at work, and they've >> been pretty solid, not to mention speedy parts delivery, RMA (a few flakey >> drives) etc. There's a definite divide between their corporate and consumer >> service/components. > > Unless it is 4 or 5 years old in which case Dell will take hours to even > answer if they can help you. After all, even their servers use rather > non standard parts. > Lennart, I'm curious, what kind of rack-mounted machines do you like? In my experience every manufacturer and even every model of rack-mounted hardware has its own quirks. It's best to stick to one manufacturer and as few different models as possible. Every little thing like how to report failures on redundant power, how Ethernet devices come up on boot, how to use remote management cards, or how the device handles a hot swap of a PS/2 keyboard/mouse, fan failures, temperature sensors, how to monitor/rebuild your SCSI array, they're all different. My point being, the question shouldn't be "should I buy this Dell server because it is cheap?" but "how much research do I have to do to put this thing in production, how much documentation do I have to write to maintain it and if I need more, how much longer can I buy that model of device?" I don't mind Dell Desktops. They have lots of non-stanard stuff, but you're depending on Dell to honour their warranty... and while I dont' deal with them a lot, I found their warranty and warranty service to be okay. I ask for parts. They send them to me, I send the old ones back. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 15:38:14 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 11:38:14 -0400 Subject: two bargains? MB+CPU; 1U server In-Reply-To: <4BFFE143.1090108-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100527200327.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100528145011.GG17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFFE143.1090108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100528153814.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 11:29:07AM -0400, Mike Kallies wrote: > Lennart, I'm curious, what kind of rack-mounted machines do you like? I don't really. They are all too proproitary, although that's hard to avoid for rackmount. In my experience IBM rackmount servers are very nice and very reliable. Their hardware also seems to work with linux in almost every case which has certainly not been the case for Dell hardware. > In my experience every manufacturer and even every model of rack-mounted > hardware has its own quirks. It's best to stick to one manufacturer and > as few different models as possible. Every little thing like how to > report failures on redundant power, how Ethernet devices come up on > boot, how to use remote management cards, or how the device handles a > hot swap of a PS/2 keyboard/mouse, fan failures, temperature sensors, > how to monitor/rebuild your SCSI array, they're all different. Yep, unfortunately they are all different. > My point being, the question shouldn't be "should I buy this Dell server > because it is cheap?" but "how much research do I have to do to put this > thing in production, how much documentation do I have to write to > maintain it and if I need more, how much longer can I buy that model of > device?" > > I don't mind Dell Desktops. They have lots of non-stanard stuff, but > you're depending on Dell to honour their warranty... and while I dont' > deal with them a lot, I found their warranty and warranty service to be > okay. I ask for parts. They send them to me, I send the old ones back. Their quality is awful compared to a lot of other companies though. They have also been the worst offender and using proprietary parts. A Dell desktop can only use a Dell type power supply because apparently they could save $5 or $10 on their machines by using their own pinout and powersupply design. They have shipped hardware with the same Model name as what you could buy at retail, but with a lot less features. Again, they saved $10 and the customer got a lot less than they thought they were payuing for. Dell sold Matrox video cards in the past with half the ram of the retail card and with no upgrade socket (which the retail cards also had). Did they mention that it was a different Dell specific model? Of course not. Dell purposely rips off their customers. If you buy from them, it is at your own risk. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 16:30:40 2010 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 12:30:40 -0400 Subject: DDR RAM more expensive than DDR2 RAM? In-Reply-To: <4BFFE060.2090901-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <420026.88865.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4BFFE060.2090901@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <4BFFEFB0.3040401@the-wire.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > E K wrote: >> To my surprise, I found out that the older and slower DDR module is >> way more expensive than the newer and better DDR2. > > Really? Its been this way for a few years now, IIRC. The last time I > looked at adding memory to an older machine of mine I found the DDR > memory sticks were about twice the price of the DDR2 sticks with the > same amount of memory. I guess the biggest buyers are the manufacturers, and they're only taking the most recent -- by definition. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 18:59:27 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 11:59:27 -0700 Subject: two bargains? MB+CPU; 1U server In-Reply-To: <20100528153814.GJ17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100527200327.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100528145011.GG17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFFE143.1090108@gmail.com> <20100528153814.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 11:29:07AM -0400, Mike Kallies wrote: >> Lennart, I'm curious, what kind of rack-mounted machines do you like? > > I don't really. ?They are all too proproitary, although that's hard to > avoid for rackmount. ?In my experience IBM rackmount servers are very > nice and very reliable. ?Their hardware also seems to work with linux in > almost every case which has certainly not been the case for Dell hardware. > >> In my experience every manufacturer and even every model of rack-mounted >> hardware has its own quirks. ?It's best to stick to one manufacturer and >> as few different models as possible. ?Every little thing like how to >> report failures on redundant power, how Ethernet devices come up on >> boot, how to use remote management cards, or how the device handles a >> hot swap of a PS/2 keyboard/mouse, fan failures, temperature sensors, >> how to monitor/rebuild your SCSI array, they're all different. > > Yep, unfortunately they are all different. > >> My point being, the question shouldn't be "should I buy this Dell server >> because it is cheap?" but "how much research do I have to do to put this >> thing in production, how much documentation do I have to write to >> maintain it and if I need more, how much longer can I buy that model of >> device?" >> >> I don't mind Dell Desktops. ?They have lots of non-stanard stuff, but >> you're depending on Dell to honour their warranty... and while I dont' >> deal with them a lot, I found their warranty and warranty service to be >> okay. ?I ask for parts. ?They send them to me, I send the old ones back. > > Their quality is awful compared to a lot of other companies though. > > They have also been the worst offender and using proprietary parts. > A Dell desktop can only use a Dell type power supply because apparently > they could save $5 or $10 on their machines by using their own pinout > and powersupply design. ?They have shipped hardware with the same Model > name as what you could buy at retail, but with a lot less features. > Again, they saved $10 and the customer got a lot less than they thought > they were payuing for. ?Dell sold Matrox video cards in the past with > half the ram of the retail card and with no upgrade socket (which the > retail cards also had). ?Did they mention that it was a different Dell > specific model? ?Of course not. ?Dell purposely rips off their customers. > If you buy from them, it is at your own risk. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > One a standard upright desktop, they thankfully seem to be behaving a bit better these days in terms of components like PSU's etc. I just replaced a PSU on a Dell Studio desktop and the replacement dropped in just fine. On the other hand, I had a heck of a time finding a motherboard to replace the one that got fried. Apparently this computer was originally between $1000-1200 (Core 2 Quad, 6GB RAM, Dual RAID 500GB Drives, blah blah). Dell wanted $480 JUST FOR THE MOTHERBOARD. I found several difficulties in replacing it: a) A full-size board wouldn't quite fit in there b) A smaller-sized board only tended to come with 2 RAM slots, this had four full (2x2GB and 2x1GB). MITX was out, and I couldn't find a decent MATX that seemed to fit in there either Ended up getting them an ebay-special refurbed board for that machine ($65 + $30 shipping) . I *hate* doing that but nobody online seemed to have what I wanted. Maybe if Dell made a computer with something better than what appears to be a shitty 350W bargain-basement PSU, the thing wouldn't have had issues in the first place. The rest of the components seemed decent, and the overall case design was actually fairly nice. So yeah. Avoid Dell desktops. Unfortunately most companies seem to skimp where it counts. Crap PSU's are *VERY* common, and those tend to go the soonest and be fairly adept at taking out other components when they do so. I'm not really sure what the alternatives are for non-technical people other than have a geek do a build-a-box. There are "antec" computers, but those are pretty pricey, and the HP's I've seen are as-bad-or-worse-than Dells, and Acer/MSI/Gateway just scare me... -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 19:37:17 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 15:37:17 -0400 Subject: two bargains? MB+CPU; 1U server In-Reply-To: References: <20100527200327.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100528145011.GG17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFFE143.1090108@gmail.com> <20100528153814.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100528193717.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 11:59:27AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > One a standard upright desktop, they thankfully seem to be behaving a > bit better these days in terms of components like PSU's etc. I just > replaced a PSU on a Dell Studio desktop and the replacement dropped in > just fine. > > On the other hand, I had a heck of a time finding a motherboard to > replace the one that got fried. Apparently this computer was > originally between $1000-1200 (Core 2 Quad, 6GB RAM, Dual RAID 500GB > Drives, blah blah). Dell wanted $480 JUST FOR THE MOTHERBOARD. > > I found several difficulties in replacing it: > a) A full-size board wouldn't quite fit in there > b) A smaller-sized board only tended to come with 2 RAM slots, this > had four full (2x2GB and 2x1GB). MITX was out, and I couldn't find a > decent MATX that seemed to fit in there either > > Ended up getting them an ebay-special refurbed board for that machine > ($65 + $30 shipping) . I *hate* doing that but nobody online seemed to > have what I wanted. > > Maybe if Dell made a computer with something better than what appears > to be a shitty 350W bargain-basement PSU, the thing wouldn't have had > issues in the first place. The rest of the components seemed decent, > and the overall case design was actually fairly nice. > > So yeah. Avoid Dell desktops. Unfortunately most companies seem to > skimp where it counts. Crap PSU's are *VERY* common, and those tend to > go the soonest and be fairly adept at taking out other components when > they do so. > I'm not really sure what the alternatives are for non-technical people > other than have a geek do a build-a-box. There are "antec" computers, > but those are pretty pricey, and the HP's I've seen are > as-bad-or-worse-than Dells, and Acer/MSI/Gateway just scare me... Yeah most of the prebuilt name brand machines are pretty crappy unfortunately, because they target a market that cares only about price and basic specifications. Quality of each component is not something the spec lists and not something most typical computer buyers would have any knowledge of. I know how to assemble a machine from quality parts and happily help friends do that too, or at least give them a list of parts that they can then go to a local computer store and ask. No one has ever been disappointed in the result as far as I know. If someone does ask me what desktop computer to buy for $400, my answer is "None of them. Wait until you have $700 or $800. Then you get something that lasts much longer, works much better, and runs reliably." -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 19:41:31 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 15:41:31 -0400 Subject: two bargains? MB+CPU; 1U server In-Reply-To: References: <20100527200327.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100528145011.GG17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFFE143.1090108@gmail.com> <20100528153814.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100528194130.GA4147@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 11:59:27AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote ... > On the other hand, I had a heck of a time finding a motherboard to > replace the one that got fried. Apparently this computer was > originally between $1000-1200 (Core 2 Quad, 6GB RAM, Dual RAID 500GB > Drives, blah blah). Dell wanted $480 JUST FOR THE MOTHERBOARD. One Dell box I came across, it opened on the right side of the box, instead of left side. I wouldn't be surprised if they switched positive and negative connections. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 19:48:52 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 15:48:52 -0400 Subject: two bargains? MB+CPU; 1U server In-Reply-To: <20100528194130.GA4147-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100527200327.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100528145011.GG17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BFFE143.1090108@gmail.com> <20100528153814.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100528194130.GA4147@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100528194852.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 03:41:31PM -0400, William Park wrote: > One Dell box I came across, it opened on the right side of the box, > instead of left side. I wouldn't be surprised if they switched positive > and negative connections. Dell was one of the few companies to fall for intel's BTX form factor (which intel invented because the P4 required more cooling that the standard old PC layout could reliable provide). It seems thoroughly dead now, and ATX is still dominant. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 20:29:17 2010 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 16:29:17 -0400 Subject: Retro Linux box: No SSH, need telnet solution for dumping a disk image over the network. Message-ID: <4C00279D.60004@ss.org> At a recent Convention I acquired an IBM P70 (1989) luggable. I'm trying to dump the contents of the harddrive across the network. The installed linux on the dosen't have ssh. So is there any way to preform the below with telnet? dd if=/dev/eda | ssh [remote] 'cat> image.img' # /dev/eda is correct of this machine tar cf - / | ssh [remote] 'cat> image.tar' What do I need to setup on the [remote] side to accept the incoming data? -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 20:29:04 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 16:29:04 -0400 Subject: Retro Linux box: No SSH, need telnet solution for dumping a disk image over the network. In-Reply-To: <4C00279D.60004-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4C00279D.60004@ss.org> Message-ID: <20100528202904.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 04:29:17PM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: > At a recent Convention I acquired an IBM P70 (1989) luggable. > I'm trying to dump the contents of the harddrive across the network. > > The installed linux on the dosen't have ssh. > So is there any way to preform the below with telnet? > > dd if=/dev/eda | ssh [remote] 'cat> image.img' # /dev/eda is correct of this machine > > tar cf - / | ssh [remote] 'cat> image.tar' > > What do I need to setup on the [remote] side to accept the incoming data? Does it have rlogin/rsh? I don't think telnet is clean enough to tunnel data. Of course a machine from 89 has no PCI, so no USB or firewire. Probably no scsi or ide. How about NFS mount? It must support that. Would be much faster than ssh too on such an old CPU. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 20:35:24 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 16:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Retro Linux box: No SSH, need telnet solution for dumping a disk image over the network. In-Reply-To: <4C00279D.60004-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4C00279D.60004@ss.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 2010, Scott Sullivan wrote: > At a recent Convention I acquired an IBM P70 (1989) luggable. > I'm trying to dump the contents of the harddrive across the network. > > The installed linux on the dosen't have ssh. > So is there any way to preform the below with telnet? Hi Scott. rsh can be used to do similar things to ssh (like pipe stdout over the network), albeit insecurely. rshd may not be running so you may need to start it - a lot of boxes had it set to start from inetd. rsh is likely to be installed on any vintage Linux box. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 20:33:12 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 16:33:12 -0400 Subject: Retro Linux box: No SSH, need telnet solution for dumping a disk image over the network. In-Reply-To: <4C00279D.60004-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4C00279D.60004@ss.org> Message-ID: <20100528163312.7e93cd82.tleslie@tcn.net> do you have netcat, ftp or rcp on it? tl On Fri, 28 May 2010 16:29:17 -0400 Scott Sullivan wrote: > At a recent Convention I acquired an IBM P70 (1989) luggable. > I'm trying to dump the contents of the harddrive across the network. > > The installed linux on the dosen't have ssh. > So is there any way to preform the below with telnet? > > dd if=/dev/eda | ssh [remote] 'cat> image.img' # /dev/eda is correct of this machine > > tar cf - / | ssh [remote] 'cat> image.tar' > > What do I need to setup on the [remote] side to accept the incoming data? > > -- > Scott Sullivan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 21:00:27 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 17:00:27 -0400 Subject: Retro Linux box: No SSH, need telnet solution for dumping a disk image over the network. In-Reply-To: References: <4C00279D.60004@ss.org> Message-ID: <20100528210027.GN17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 04:35:24PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Fri, 28 May 2010, Scott Sullivan wrote: > >> At a recent Convention I acquired an IBM P70 (1989) luggable. >> I'm trying to dump the contents of the harddrive across the network. >> >> The installed linux on the dosen't have ssh. >> So is there any way to preform the below with telnet? > > Hi Scott. rsh can be used to do similar things to ssh (like pipe stdout > over the network), albeit insecurely. rshd may not be running so you may > need to start it - a lot of boxes had it set to start from inetd. > > rsh is likely to be installed on any vintage Linux box. Actually the vintage box just needs rsh. The modern target box is the one that needs rshd running to receive the file. That shouldn't be hard to do. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 21:42:07 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 17:42:07 -0400 Subject: hello, linuxcaffe alum needs help with samba windows ad authentication Message-ID: Hey everybody. I am a long time employee of the linuxcaffe at harbord and grace where I might have met some of you before. A mutual friend Jamon suggested i try here for advice when configuring samba to authenticate with kerberos on active directory. so here is my problem; kinit Administrator gives me a ticket net ads join -U Administrator gives me: libsmb/smb_signing.c:(253) signing_good: BAD SIG: seq 1 Failed to join domain: Access denied # however, when i do a kinit timadshare (which is a user i made in active directory) i get a ticket and can join the realm. Using short domain name -- RIGHT Joined 'TIMADSHARE' to realm 'RIGHT.AD.SP.COM' wbinfo -u and -g both do what they ought, but neither getent group or passwd do. i have been hacking at this for about a week now, and i think i might explode. any suggestions? sincerely Tim Hildred -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 21:50:57 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 17:50:57 -0400 Subject: hello, linuxcaffe alum needs help with samba windows ad authentication In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100528215057.GO17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 05:42:07PM -0400, Timothy Hildred wrote: > I am a long time employee of the linuxcaffe at harbord and grace where I > might have met some of you before. A mutual friend Jamon suggested i try > here for advice when configuring samba to authenticate with kerberos on > active directory. so here is my problem; > kinit Administrator gives me a ticket > net ads join -U Administrator gives me: > libsmb/smb_signing.c:(253) signing_good: BAD SIG: seq 1 Failed to join > domain: Access denied # > > however, when i do a kinit timadshare (which is a user i made in active > directory) i get a ticket and can join the realm. > Using short domain name -- RIGHT > Joined 'TIMADSHARE' to realm 'RIGHT.AD.SP.COM' > > wbinfo -u and -g both do what they ought, but neither getent group or passwd > do. > > i have been hacking at this for about a week now, and i think i might > explode. any suggestions? I wonder if kerberos was named after the hound of Hades for a reason... :) I haven't dealt with kerberos for 10 years. I remember it didn't make sense then either. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 22:02:49 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 18:02:49 -0400 Subject: hello, linuxcaffe alum needs help with samba windows ad authentication In-Reply-To: <20100528215057.GO17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100528215057.GO17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: glad to see i'm not the only one who is wound up by this. has anyone out there seen what i described? On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 05:42:07PM -0400, Timothy Hildred wrote: > > I am a long time employee of the linuxcaffe at harbord and grace where I > > might have met some of you before. A mutual friend Jamon suggested i try > > here for advice when configuring samba to authenticate with kerberos on > > active directory. so here is my problem; > > kinit Administrator gives me a ticket > > net ads join -U Administrator gives me: > > libsmb/smb_signing.c:(253) signing_good: BAD SIG: seq 1 Failed to join > > domain: Access denied # > > > > however, when i do a kinit timadshare (which is a user i made in active > > directory) i get a ticket and can join the realm. > > Using short domain name -- RIGHT > > Joined 'TIMADSHARE' to realm 'RIGHT.AD.SP.COM' > > > > wbinfo -u and -g both do what they ought, but neither getent group or > passwd > > do. > > > > i have been hacking at this for about a week now, and i think i might > > explode. any suggestions? > > I wonder if kerberos was named after the hound of Hades for a reason... :) > > I haven't dealt with kerberos for 10 years. I remember it didn't make > sense then either. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 28 22:04:51 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 18:04:51 -0400 Subject: DDR RAM more expensive than DDR2 RAM? In-Reply-To: References: <420026.88865.qm@web65608.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4BFF0ED6.7040708@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4C003E03.7090902@alteeve.com> On 10-05-28 11:09 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 27 May 2010, Digimer wrote: > >> Going back to the 30 pin days, I always saw RAM start expensive, drop >> to a point and then go back up. I've yet to see a RAM technology where >> it's price couldn't be graphed as a "U" shape. >> >> It's true, fewer people want the old technology. However, even less >> people make it, so, the price goes up. > > This exactly matches my experience since the 30 pin days as well. > > People coming in for older ram see the higher price, do their sums and > realise that upgrading the system/motherboard offes a better deal[1]. As > a result this process is a positive feedback loop. > > The computer industry is responsible for an enormous amount of hardware > waste. > > [1] Newer, faster system with as much ram as they were going to buy, for > not too much more. > > Rob Perhaps, but that's always been the way, to some degree or another, in all manufactured goods industries. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat May 29 02:17:17 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 22:17:17 -0400 Subject: Retro Linux box: No SSH, need telnet solution for dumping a disk image over the network. In-Reply-To: <4C00279D.60004-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4C00279D.60004@ss.org> Message-ID: <20100529021717.GA4486@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 04:29:17PM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: > At a recent Convention I acquired an IBM P70 (1989) luggable. > I'm trying to dump the contents of the harddrive across the network. > > The installed linux on the dosen't have ssh. > So is there any way to preform the below with telnet? > > dd if=/dev/eda | ssh [remote] 'cat> image.img' # /dev/eda is correct of > this machine > > tar cf - / | ssh [remote] 'cat> image.tar' > > What do I need to setup on the [remote] side to accept the incoming data? Answer: - "netcat", "nc", etc. - Slackware has "hose/faucet". -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat May 29 02:58:03 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 22:58:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Retro Linux box: No SSH, need telnet solution for dumping a disk image over the network. In-Reply-To: <20100528210027.GN17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4C00279D.60004@ss.org> <20100528210027.GN17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 May 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Actually the vintage box just needs rsh. The modern target box is the > one that needs rshd running to receive the file. That shouldn't be hard > to do. It can be done either way (push or pull) by piping stdout->stdin over the network. Even Debian 5.0 and Fedora 12 still contains rsh & rshd (I just checked). Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 29 05:05:13 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 01:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Nero files antitrust case against MPEG-LA Message-ID: On the surface, this suit sounds reasonable and it might be improtant for open software. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 29 15:14:41 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 11:14:41 -0400 Subject: .ca domain registrar Message-ID: I'm interested in buying a .ca domain for me, but while I was searching for a registrar I noticed ridiculous differences in price. For instance, if I go directly to cira.ca, I'll pay C$ 50/year, but domain.ca charges C$ 19.95 and namespro.ca C$ 12.88. So I'd like to know if you guys have any tips on this. Any bad experiences with the cheaper ones? I ask because I had some bad experiences with GoDaddy in the past. If any of the el-cheapo ones are like them, I don't mind spending a little bit more. - FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 29 15:26:33 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 11:26:33 -0400 Subject: .ca domain registrar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C013229.50607@gmail.com> Fabio FZero wrote: > I'm interested in buying a .ca domain for me, but while I was > searching for a registrar I noticed ridiculous differences in price. > > For instance, if I go directly to cira.ca, I'll pay C$ 50/year, but > domain.ca charges C$ 19.95 and namespro.ca C$ 12.88. > > So I'd like to know if you guys have any tips on this. Any bad > experiences with the cheaper ones? I ask because I had some bad > experiences with GoDaddy in the past. If any of the el-cheapo ones are > like them, I don't mind spending a little bit more. I'm using www.domainsatcost.ca for personal .ca registration. I've not had any problems with them. I think I found out about them on this list. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat May 29 15:57:40 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 11:57:40 -0400 Subject: .ca domain registrar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C013974.2050508@ve3syb.ca> Fabio FZero wrote: > I'm interested in buying a .ca domain for me, but while I was > searching for a registrar I noticed ridiculous differences in price. I have been using domainsatcost.ca for my .ca domain and haven't had any issues with them. It is a Canadian company with a mailing address in Ottawa. Cost is $12.95 for a .ca domain. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Sat May 29 17:58:02 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 13:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: .ca domain registrar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96dc3e6f097a982f8341fa02afd5fd64.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> I use netfirms.ca and never had a problem with them. A .ca costs 9.95/year > I'm interested in buying a .ca domain for me, but while I was > searching for a registrar I noticed ridiculous differences in price. > > For instance, if I go directly to cira.ca, I'll pay C$ 50/year, but > domain.ca charges C$ 19.95 and namespro.ca C$ 12.88. > > So I'd like to know if you guys have any tips on this. Any bad > experiences with the cheaper ones? I ask because I had some bad > experiences with GoDaddy in the past. If any of the el-cheapo ones are > like them, I don't mind spending a little bit more. > > - FZ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sat May 29 21:02:52 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 17:02:52 -0400 Subject: .ca domain registrar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <630F9481-E75E-4403-87F4-7397FE158BB8@mylesbraithwaite.com> Take a look at https://www.hover.com/ they have a simple to use interface and when you want to buy a domain it is just one page with no overselling attached. I am in the process of moving to them from GoDaddy. On 2010-05-29, at 11:14 AM, Fabio FZero wrote: > I'm interested in buying a .ca domain for me, but while I was > searching for a registrar I noticed ridiculous differences in price. > > For instance, if I go directly to cira.ca, I'll pay C$ 50/year, but > domain.ca charges C$ 19.95 and namespro.ca C$ 12.88. > > So I'd like to know if you guys have any tips on this. Any bad > experiences with the cheaper ones? I ask because I had some bad > experiences with GoDaddy in the past. If any of the el-cheapo ones are > like them, I don't mind spending a little bit more. > > - FZ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 29 22:21:33 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 18:21:33 -0400 Subject: .ca domain registrar In-Reply-To: <630F9481-E75E-4403-87F4-7397FE158BB8-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <630F9481-E75E-4403-87F4-7397FE158BB8@mylesbraithwaite.com> Message-ID: Thanks for all tips! I'm going with the cheapest (netfirms.ca). - FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sun May 30 12:37:17 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 08:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? Message-ID: Warning: This post is going to be somewhat (OK, a lot) self-serving in terms of my looking for new Linux training gigs in Toronto, but I'm also interested in the opinions of those who have had to deal with that sort of thing. And I'm typing this from the finish line stage of the Toronto Criterium this morning so I might ramble a bit. Most people who know me know that I've been a professional Linux and OSS trainer for many years -- taught both my own material to my own clients, other peoples' material to my clients and other peoples' material to their clients. And the training market certainly seems to be cyclical. Several years ago, training was in demand. Now, not so much it seems, which inspires me to ask the question -- is there a viable Linux and Linux-related training market out there? Or, even if there is, has it already been snapped up by the big vendors so that there's little point in trying to break in anymore? Case in point: When I lived in the US years ago, I had a national bank as a client, and I taught them several classes of intro and admin AIX. Not to sound unhumble, but they were terrifically happy with me; that relationship lasted over a year until, one day, the director of IT told me that they simply couldn't use me anymore. The edict had come down from head IT that the bank had centralized on exactly two national training providers, and everyone else was simply dropped. Apparently, it didn't matter that neither of them offered AIX classes, or that the local IT manager went to bat for me. It was just simplification and that was that. The same thing happened a while back locally, where someone who had been spectacularly happy with my instruction told me that, nationally, they were switching to Red Hat for all their Linux training. Can't fault them, of course, Red Hat offers good courses -- I used to contract teach for them during that stint in the US. But, again, it just takes what little there is left of the training market and makes it even tinier. To make a long story short, I've always enjoyed writing and delivering courseware, especially custom stuff based on *exactly* what the client asked for. And I thought (correctly or not) that there might be a market out there for what I called "crash courses" (hence my domain name), the idea being that some places just don't have the time or budget to send people for 3/4/5 day classes and have a *specific* training need that could be dealt with in a single day. I don't see the major vendors offering many single-day courses because it's just not profitable for them, but for an independent trainer, that represents a perfectly respectable market. So, back to the original issue -- I'd dearly love to get back to making a living as a corporate Linux instructor, writing custom courseware as the need arises and charging a fraction of what the major vendors charge, simply because that would still represent a perfectly good living. But ... is there a market anymore? Or has it simply been swallowed by the big fish? Thoughts? rday P.S. There is, of course, tons of good courseware out there on the net for the taking. Specifically, there's all of this stuff: http://free-electrons.com/docs/ and I recently hooked up with those guys to start updating a lot of that content and add more as the opportunity arises. So, certainly, if someone was looking for hands-on training on any of those topics, I could grab the appropriate slides and labs, and update as necessary. But is there a market? And, yes, I'm available. :-) -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 30 13:03:32 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 09:03:32 -0400 Subject: OT: Portable GPS Devices, Is There Such Thing? Message-ID: Does anyone know if there are portable GPS devices that run of batteries that I can take with me when I bike? -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun May 30 13:18:27 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 09:18:27 -0400 Subject: OT: Portable GPS Devices, Is There Such Thing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23fc4c047b0aa528c54a74172e3488e1.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Radio World, up on Steeles Ave, has an entire category for that type of unit. http://radioworld.ca/index.php?cPath=4 Peter > Does anyone know if there are portable GPS devices that run of > batteries that I can take with me when I bike? > > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 30 13:19:51 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 09:19:51 -0400 Subject: OT: Portable GPS Devices, Is There Such Thing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > Does anyone know if there are portable GPS devices that run of > batteries that I can take with me when I bike? Yes, there are a number out there. Among the OpenStreet Map folks, at least in North America, Garmin seems to be the most popular brand. Most of the Garmin models look like fat PDAs that you can carry easily in one hand. Also, all but the most basic models can used to collect track data for OpenStreet Map (hint, hint :-) ). Some GPS reviiews can be seen here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GPS_Reviews Colin McGregor > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 30 13:46:38 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 09:46:38 -0400 Subject: OT: Portable GPS Devices, Is There Such Thing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There battery powered units dedicated to cycling e.g. Also most hand held "hiking" type units have available bicycle mounts. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 30 15:35:45 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 11:35:45 -0400 Subject: OT: Portable GPS Devices, Is There Such Thing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 09:19, Colin McGregor wrote: > Yes, there are a number out there. Among the OpenStreet Map folks, at > least in North America, Garmin seems to be the most popular brand. > Most of the Garmin models look like fat PDAs that you can carry easily > in one hand. Also, all but the most basic models can used to collect > track data for OpenStreet Map (hint, hint :-) ). Some GPS reviiews can > be seen here: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GPS_Reviews > > Colin McGregor You know as well as I do, that OSM by me is not going to happen, I don't drive a car, I have a bike and only use it in the summer, and I try and avoid hills as I am grossly overweight for someone my height and very out of shape. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 30 15:59:47 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 11:59:47 -0400 Subject: OT: Portable GPS Devices, Is There Such Thing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/30/10, Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 09:19, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Yes, there are a number out there. Among the OpenStreet Map folks, at >> least in North America, Garmin seems to be the most popular brand. >> Most of the Garmin models look like fat PDAs that you can carry easily >> in one hand. Also, all but the most basic models can used to collect >> track data for OpenStreet Map (hint, hint :-) ). Some GPS reviiews can >> be seen here: >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GPS_Reviews >> >> Colin McGregor > > > You know as well as I do, that OSM by me is not going to happen, I > don't drive a car, I have a bike and only use it in the summer, and I > try and avoid hills as I am grossly overweight for someone my height > and very out of shape. OSM is looking for ALL sorts of geographic data, so even overwight out of shape can contribute data. Adding tech shops is usefull, paths through parks, as is where are good (or not so good) food shops, etc. is all good stuff for OSM. So, your being overweight not driving a car is not a real issue. Colin McGregor > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 30 20:55:21 2010 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 16:55:21 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 10.04 screen resolutions Message-ID: <4C02D0B9.6080909@yahoo.ca> Arg. Why oh why must everything keep getting "improved" until it is broken? On a new Ubuntu 10.04 install... trying to troubleshoot a problem of auto-detected resolutions not including half of the desired resolutions which I know the hardware supports. Unfortunately after a full day of googling and experimenting most of the forums posts seem to be either outdated or moronic blind-leading-the-blind wrong answers. The ones that are almost-there on what I think has (usually, lately) been the right way of doing it do not quite get around my problem. Does anyone have good suggestions of intelligent Ubuntu forums to post something like this in? or would it be too off topic to post such a question here? (I suppose an intelligent Ubuntu forum would be called a Debian newsgroup right? oh zing!) Cheers. Martin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 00:32:38 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 20:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu 10.04 screen resolutions In-Reply-To: <4C02D0B9.6080909-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C02D0B9.6080909@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: After installing Ubuntu only about 5 resolutions where available to me and none of them where the proper one for my hardware. The proper resolution became available to me after I installed the non-free Nvidia driver. > Arg. Why oh why must everything keep getting "improved" until it is > broken? > > On a new Ubuntu 10.04 install... trying to troubleshoot a problem of > auto-detected resolutions not including half of the desired resolutions > which I know the hardware supports. > > Unfortunately after a full day of googling and experimenting most of the > forums posts seem to be either outdated or moronic > blind-leading-the-blind wrong answers. The ones that are almost-there > on what I think has (usually, lately) been the right way of doing it do > not quite get around my problem. > > Does anyone have good suggestions of intelligent Ubuntu forums to post > something like this in? or would it be too off topic to post such a > question here? (I suppose an intelligent Ubuntu forum would be called a > Debian newsgroup right? oh zing!) > > Cheers. > > Martin > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 01:00:32 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 21:00:32 -0400 Subject: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > ?Warning: ?This post is going to be somewhat (OK, a lot) self-serving > in terms of my looking for new Linux training gigs in Toronto, but I'm > also interested in the opinions of those who have had to deal with > that sort of thing. ?And I'm typing this from the finish line stage of > the Toronto Criterium this morning so I might ramble a bit. > > ?Most people who know me know that I've been a professional Linux and > OSS trainer for many years -- taught both my own material to my own > clients, other peoples' material to my clients and other peoples' > material to their clients. ?And the training market certainly seems to > be cyclical. > > ?Several years ago, training was in demand. ?Now, not so much it > seems, which inspires me to ask the question -- is there a viable > Linux and Linux-related training market out there? ?Or, even if there > is, has it already been snapped up by the big vendors so that there's > little point in trying to break in anymore? > > ?Case in point: ?When I lived in the US years ago, I had a national > bank as a client, and I taught them several classes of intro and admin > AIX. ?Not to sound unhumble, but they were terrifically happy with me; > that relationship lasted over a year until, one day, the director of > IT told me that they simply couldn't use me anymore. ?The edict had > come down from head IT that the bank had centralized on exactly two > national training providers, and everyone else was simply dropped. > Apparently, it didn't matter that neither of them offered AIX classes, > or that the local IT manager went to bat for me. ?It was just > simplification and that was that. > > ?The same thing happened a while back locally, where someone who had > been spectacularly happy with my instruction told me that, nationally, > they were switching to Red Hat for all their Linux training. ?Can't > fault them, of course, Red Hat offers good courses -- I used to > contract teach for them during that stint in the US. ?But, again, it > just takes what little there is left of the training market and makes > it even tinier. > > ?To make a long story short, I've always enjoyed writing and > delivering courseware, especially custom stuff based on *exactly* what > the client asked for. ?And I thought (correctly or not) that there > might be a market out there for what I called "crash courses" (hence > my domain name), the idea being that some places just don't have the > time or budget to send people for 3/4/5 day classes and have a > *specific* training need that could be dealt with in a single day. ?I > don't see the major vendors offering many single-day courses because > it's just not profitable for them, but for an independent trainer, > that represents a perfectly respectable market. > > ?So, back to the original issue -- I'd dearly love to get back to > making a living as a corporate Linux instructor, writing custom > courseware as the need arises and charging a fraction of what the > major vendors charge, simply because that would still represent a > perfectly good living. ?But ... is there a market anymore? ?Or has it > simply been swallowed by the big fish? ?Thoughts? This is an area of real interest to me as I am interested in doing Linux education. I don't know what sort of a pay market is out there. I have been happy to do some volunteer training for Planet Geek (www.planetgeek.ca), Free Geek Toronto (freegeektoronto.org) as well as talking at GTALug (http://gtalug.org/wiki/Colin_McGregor) and Unix Unanimous (gtalug.org/wiki/Unix_Unanimous). For the most part I enjoy doing volunteer presentations, but ... they don't put food on the table... So, there is the local Linux Education group that is interested in improving the state of local Linux education, but this is a group that appears to have at least for the moment stalled... Bottom line in all of this I guess is that while I think there is interest in Linux education, I don't (yet anyway) know how to make a living at it... Colin McGregor > rday > > P.S. ?There is, of course, tons of good courseware out there on the > net for the taking. ?Specifically, there's all of this stuff: > > ?http://free-electrons.com/docs/ > > and I recently hooked up with those guys to start updating a lot of > that content and add more as the opportunity arises. ?So, certainly, > if someone was looking for hands-on training on any of those topics, I > could grab the appropriate slides and labs, and update as necessary. > But is there a market? > > And, yes, I'm available. :-) > > -- > > ======================================================================== > Robert P. J. Day ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA > > ? ? ? ? ? ?Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. > > Web page: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://crashcourse.ca > Twitter: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://twitter.com/rpjday > ======================================================================== > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 01:23:06 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 21:23:06 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 10.04 screen resolutions In-Reply-To: <4C02D0B9.6080909-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C02D0B9.6080909@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: I gave up on Ubuntu precisely because of that. It couldn't make heads or tails of my old-ish Toshiba notebook videocard unless I specifically added a kernel option on grub. This is simply not acceptable because: 1. It's 2010. It's high time we're past that kind of issue. 2. The videocard is a common, run-of-the-mill, standard, old Intel GMA 950. 3. The previous Ubuntu versions worked perfectly (for shame!). So guess which distro worked fine out of the box? Debian testing. By the way it has serioulsy improved since they fixed their release schedule; you can't really complain that the packages are out of date anymore (yes, even in stable). - FZ On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 16:55, marthter wrote: > Arg.? Why oh why must everything keep getting "improved" until it is broken? > > On a new Ubuntu 10.04 install... trying to troubleshoot a problem of > auto-detected resolutions not including half of the desired resolutions > which I know the hardware supports. > > Unfortunately after a full day of googling and experimenting most of the > forums posts seem to be either outdated or moronic blind-leading-the-blind > wrong answers.? The ones that are almost-there on what I think has (usually, > lately) been the right way of doing it do not quite get around my problem. > > Does anyone have good suggestions of intelligent Ubuntu forums to post > something like this in? or would it be too off topic to post such a question > here?? (I suppose an intelligent Ubuntu forum would be called a Debian > newsgroup right?? oh zing!) > > Cheers. > > Martin > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 02:35:09 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 22:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu 10.04 screen resolutions In-Reply-To: References: <4C02D0B9.6080909@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Fabio FZero | 1. It's 2010. It's high time we're past that kind of issue. | 2. The videocard is a common, run-of-the-mill, standard, old Intel GMA 950. | 3. The previous Ubuntu versions worked perfectly (for shame!). | | So guess which distro worked fine out of the box? | | Debian testing. Without spending *any* time investigating, I assume that the problem is due to Kernel Mode Setting. KMS is the future, but the transition has been shaky. As I understand it, x86_Free and xorg used to do a horrible hack to set the mode of the video hardware. It had an 8086 emulator, running in user-space, interpreting the video BIOS of the display. With KMS, real kernel code does the mode setting of video hardware. You can often fix this problem with a "nokms" kernel parameter. I have heard that nokms support may be on the way out. Using the VGA driver would probably work (but not efficiently). It, by definition, cannot use KMS. Using an explicit xorg.conf might allow you to specify the required settings. On top of KMS issues, about a release cycle or so ago (6 or 12 months) the Intel folks made some serious changes to the memory allocation mechanism in the driver and destabilized the driver. Unfortunate since up until then the Intel driver was the only decent manufacturer-supplied current open-source driver. | By the way it has seriously improved since they fixed their release | schedule; you can't really complain that the packages are out of date | anymore (yes, even in stable). Nice to know. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 02:33:59 2010 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 22:33:59 -0400 Subject: SPF and caching DNS In-Reply-To: References: <1271679307.6644.21.camel@cougar-hardy> ,, ,,<1272279368.18287.2.camel@cougar-hardy> , ,<1272447790.21808.3.camel@cougar-hardy> Message-ID: <1275273239.10574.59.camel@cougar-hardy> On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 17:29 +0530, shinoj vg wrote: > > Adding fw2.easydns.com to your spf should solve the problem. > > Please contact easydns.com and see if any other IP's need to be > included. I finally got in touch with easydns.com At their suggestion, I added "include:easydns.com" in the TXT record. Once again, I can send email. (If this message comes through, I will have have succeeded in sending *two* emails with the updated TXT record .) Thank you for your help. Cheers, Terry. > > Regards, > Shinoj. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Catch the changing security environment Get it now. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 12:40:37 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 08:40:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: regarding my previous musings on the market for actual, professional linux training around here ... On Sun, 30 May 2010, Colin McGregor wrote: > This is an area of real interest to me as I am interested in doing > Linux education. I don't know what sort of a pay market is out > there. I have been happy to do some volunteer training for Planet > Geek (www.planetgeek.ca), Free Geek Toronto (freegeektoronto.org) as > well as talking at GTALug (http://gtalug.org/wiki/Colin_McGregor) > and Unix Unanimous (gtalug.org/wiki/Unix_Unanimous). For the most > part I enjoy doing volunteer presentations, but ... they don't put > food on the table... and there it is. we have buckets in common -- i've given numerous presentations for my local LUG (in fact, i'm doing another short one at the very next meeting: http://kwlug.org/node/692). i've been a speaker at two ontario linux fests. i've written loads of tutorials and posted them online for the taking. but, in the end, none of that is billable. i love training. and i'm pretty sure i'm good at it by now. :-) but this brings us back to the fundamental questions: 1) *is* there a linux training market out there and ... 2) if there is, has it already been claimed by the big vendors so that there's nothing left for anyone else? granted, if one is offering courses in niche topics like kernel programming, the market for that is *clearly* going to be small. but it's precisely *because* it's a small market that most of the big players aren't going to spend a lot of time trying to grab it. and if one has really, really good courseware and a market the size of toronto, is it unreasonable to think you might be able to sell a course every month or two? anyway, it would be nice to hear from folks on this list whose companies have *sent* them for linux training. tell us about it. what are the hot areas? are you going back for more? etc, etc. i hate to give up on my dream of high-tech linux training, but if there's just nothing there in terms of a market, i really should know that and accept it. thanks. rday p.s. a few years back, when i tried to get established in the K-W area to do training, i offered introductory linux training at a stupidly low price to local companies just to break in. typically, high-end training like linux sells for around $4-500 per day per student, so sending a single person on a 5-day course would set a company back around $2000-2500. and if travel's involved, well, naturally the costs go up (although if you're in TO, chances are you won't need to travel). my offer was for the single-day courses that i had on hand, the total cost would be between $1000-1500 for the day for *an entire class*. that is, on-site training, the client could fill the room (hopefully, they had computers to use). said client could put up to 12 people in the class so that the average cost per student per day would be about $100. an absurdly good deal for the client, and still enough to make me sufficiently happy. i got one day of training from one local client and that's it. granted, it might be because no one knew who i was at the time, but even after that, it was nigh impossible to sell training around here. anyway, enough rambling, but if anyone in TO is considering linux training of one form or another, drop me a note. maybe i can help, maybe i can't. but you'll never know if you don't ask. :-) -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 14:14:26 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 10:14:26 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 10.04 screen resolutions In-Reply-To: References: <4C02D0B9.6080909@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 22:35, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Without spending *any* time investigating, I assume that the problem > is due to Kernel Mode Setting. Yes it is. > You can often fix this problem with a "nokms" kernel parameter. ?I > have heard that nokms support may be on the way out. Actually, it was the other way around. I had to *explicitly* tell the kernel to use KMS. Even so, it didn't work right. Ubuntu couldn't start X on login. In fact it was worse than that: the graphics came up for the splash, but then dropped out just when X was starting. The funny thing is that starting X manually worked. Go figure. I just got tired of this and some other (IMHO) bad design decisions and went back to Debian. - FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 14:17:29 2010 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 10:17:29 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 10.04 screen resolutions In-Reply-To: References: <4C02D0B9.6080909@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <4C03C4F9.1020407@yahoo.ca> On 10-05-30 10:35 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Fabio FZero > > | 1. It's 2010. It's high time we're past that kind of issue. > | 2. The videocard is a common, run-of-the-mill, standard, old Intel GMA 950. > | 3. The previous Ubuntu versions worked perfectly (for shame!). > | > | So guess which distro worked fine out of the box? > | > | Debian testing. > > Without spending *any* time investigating, I assume that the problem > is due to Kernel Mode Setting. > > KMS is the future, but the transition has been shaky. > > As I understand it, x86_Free and xorg used to do a horrible hack to > set the mode of the video hardware. It had an 8086 emulator, running > in user-space, interpreting the video BIOS of the display. > > With KMS, real kernel code does the mode setting of video hardware. > > You can often fix this problem with a "nokms" kernel parameter. I > have heard that nokms support may be on the way out. > > Using the VGA driver would probably work (but not efficiently). It, > by definition, cannot use KMS. > > Using an explicit xorg.conf might allow you to specify the required > settings. > > On top of KMS issues, about a release cycle or so ago (6 or 12 months) the > Intel folks made some serious changes to the memory allocation > mechanism in the driver and destabilized the driver. Unfortunate > since up until then the Intel driver was the only decent > manufacturer-supplied current open-source driver. > > | By the way it has seriously improved since they fixed their release > | schedule; you can't really complain that the packages are out of date > | anymore (yes, even in stable). > > Nice to know okay thanks for the replies folks. Nice to know I'm not the only one. I kept my original question short because I wasn't sure if it was too off-topic. Now I guess I'll go to the long version of my question in case anyone can help with the specifics... On the default 10.04 install, the xorg.conf is not just minimal, it just isn't there at all. I guess that's normal nowadays. From Xorg.0.log it appears to be using the open source driver: ... (II) LoadModule: "nouveau" ... The video card is on-board: martin at newton:~$ lspci -s 00:0d.0 00:0d.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation C61 [GeForce 6150SE nForce 430] (rev a2) The monitor is (quite old) ViewSonic P815 vertical frequency range 50 - 160 Hz horizontal frequency range 30 - 115 kHz Its user guide is a little vague on its true maximum resolution... if it is to comply with FCC class B it says its max is 1600x1200. To comply with TCO '95 it says 1800x1440 @ 75 Hz. I have been using it at 1920x1440 @ 60 Hz for years with no problems and occasionally tried 2048x1536 which worked too. The ones shown in the System... Preferences... Monitors GUI are almost a match for the "Factory Preset Timings" in the User Guide: GUI: 1600x1200 85 and 75 Hz 1280x1024 85 and 75 Hz 1152x864 75 Hz (strangely, the manual says 1152x870) 1024x768 75 and 60 Hz (manual has only 75 Hz) 640x480 75 and 60 Hz Another strange wrinkle, these are ALMOST the same as xrandr's output, but xrandr has one extra 75.1 Hz entry beside 1024x768: martin at newton:~$ xrandr Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1600 x 1200, maximum 4096 x 4096 VGA-1 connected 1600x1200+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 380mm x 285mm 1600x1200 85.0* 75.0 1280x1024 85.0 75.0 1152x864 75.0 1024x768 75.1 75.0 60.0 640x480 75.0 60.0 I can almost get what I want with the nouveau driver using gtf or cvt to generate a mode line and xrandr --newmode, xrandr --addmode, and xrandr --output: martin at newton:~$ gtf 1920 1440 60 # 1920x1440 @ 60.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 89.40 kHz; pclk: 234.59 MHz Modeline "1920x1440_60.00" 234.59 1920 2064 2272 2624 1440 1441 1444 1490 -HSync +Vsync Note this 60 Hz is within the vertical range of 50-160, and the 89.4 kHz is within the horizonal range of 30-115 kHz. The monitor User Guide also cites a "Video In - Bandwidth - 250.0 MHz (typical)" although I've never seen reference to that in any of the other modeline tweakings that I've done over the years. The 234.59 MHz total pixel clock that it will attempt to drive it at is under this 250 "bandwidth" for the monitor, and under the 350 MHz pixel clock stated for the video card according to Xorg.0.log: (--) May 30 17:43:20 NVIDIA(0): Connected display device(s) on GeForce 6150SE nForce 430 at (--) May 30 17:43:20 NVIDIA(0): PCI:0:13:0: (--) May 30 17:43:20 NVIDIA(0): ViewSonic (CRT-0) (--) May 30 17:43:20 NVIDIA(0): ViewSonic (CRT-0): 350.0 MHz maximum pixel clock martin at newton:~$ xrandr --newmode 1920x1440 234.59 1920 2064 2272 2624 1440 1441 1444 1490 -HSync +Vsync martin at newton:~$ xrandr --addmode VGA-1 1920x1440 martin at newton:~$ xrandr --output VGA-1 --mode 1920x1440 As far as I've been able to tell (seen in official Ubuntu wiki), this is "the right way" to do this nowadays, including to have it take effect right from the login screen, putting the above three xrandr commands in /etc/gdm/Init/Default. Unfortunately any HD media is very jerky with this driver so although this gets the resolution right, it is not workable. The other half of my attempts were with the proprietary driver, enabled with System... Administration... Hardware Drivers... I clicked on "NVIDIA accelerated graphics driver (version current) [recommended]" and clicked "Activate", and rebooted. The xorg.conf after switching to the proprietary driver is now initialized to a fairly minimal (no changes by me): Section "Screen" Identifier "Default Screen" DefaultDepth 24 EndSection Section "Module" Load "glx" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Default Device" Driver "nvidia" Option "NoLogo" "True" EndSection After doing this, the Monitors GUI (which just links to Nvidia X Server Settings GUI) now has many more resolutions and refresh rates: 1920x1200 60 Hz 1920x1080 60 Hz 1856x1392 60 Hz 1792x1344 60 Hz 1680x1050 85, 75, 70, 60 Hz 1600x1200 85, 75, 70, 65, 60 Hz 1600x1024 60 Hz 1440x900 60 Hz 1440x1050 85, 75, 70, 60 Hz [... 29 more ranging down to 320x175 ] But still no 1920x1440 or even the 1800x1440 cited in the monitor Users Guide. xrandr has yet a different set, which maxes out at 1600x1200 (seemingly because the first line of output cites that as some sort of overall maximum): martin at newton:~$ xrandr Screen 0: minimum 320 x 175, current 1600 x 1200, maximum 1600 x 1200 default connected 1600x1200+0+0 0mm x 0mm 1600x1200 50.0* 51.0 52.0 53.0 54.0 1600x1024 55.0 1440x900 56.0 1400x1050 57.0 58.0 59.0 60.0 1360x768 61.0 62.0 1280x1024 63.0 64.0 65.0 1280x960 66.0 67.0 1152x864 68.0 69.0 70.0 71.0 72.0 73.0 1024x768 74.0 75.0 76.0 77.0 78.0 960x720 79.0 960x600 80.0 960x540 81.0 928x696 82.0 896x672 83.0 84.0 840x525 85.0 86.0 87.0 88.0 89.0 832x624 90.0 800x600 91.0 92.0 93.0 94.0 95.0 96.0 97.0 98.0 99.0 800x512 100.0 720x450 101.0 720x400 102.0 680x384 103.0 104.0 640x512 105.0 106.0 107.0 640x480 108.0 109.0 110.0 111.0 112.0 113.0 114.0 640x400 115.0 640x350 116.0 576x432 117.0 118.0 119.0 120.0 121.0 122.0 512x384 123.0 124.0 125.0 126.0 416x312 127.0 400x300 128.0 129.0 130.0 131.0 360x200 132.0 320x240 133.0 134.0 135.0 136.0 320x200 137.0 320x175 138.0 (note the output device is now called "default" with the proprietary driver instead of "VGA-1" as it was with the open source driver, so I have changed that in the subsequent xrandr commands.) Now I of course tried the gtf and xrandr --newmode, --addmode, and --output commands again but they didn't work the same: martin at newton:~$ gtf 1920 1440 60 # 1920x1440 @ 60.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 89.40 kHz; pclk: 234.59 MHz Modeline "1920x1440_60.00" 234.59 1920 2064 2272 2624 1440 1441 1444 1490 -HSync +Vsync martin at newton:~$ xrandr --newmode 1920x1440 234.59 1920 2064 2272 2624 1440 1441 1444 1490 -HSync +Vsync martin at newton:~$ xrandr --addmode default 1920x1440 martin at newton:~$ xrandr --output default --mode 1920x1440 xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1792x1344 (desired size 1920x1440) Googling this error gave nothing but multiple-screen questions and solutions only involving setting Viewports in xorg.conf which I don't think is relevant to a single screen setup. However as I was repeating this stuff one more time for the purposes of writing this e-mail, this was slightly different than earlier in the day, when the maximum cited was always 1600x1200. So I repeated the xrandr command alone, and then the above --output command again, which gave a different error on the second attempt: martin at newton:~$ xrandr Screen 0: minimum 320 x 175, current 1600 x 1200, maximum 1920 x 1440 default connected 1600x1200+0+0 0mm x 0mm 1600x1200 50.0* 51.0 52.0 53.0 54.0 1600x1024 55.0 1440x900 56.0 1400x1050 57.0 58.0 59.0 60.0 1360x768 61.0 62.0 1280x1024 63.0 64.0 65.0 1280x960 66.0 67.0 1152x864 68.0 69.0 70.0 71.0 72.0 73.0 1024x768 74.0 75.0 76.0 77.0 78.0 960x720 79.0 960x600 80.0 960x540 81.0 928x696 82.0 896x672 83.0 84.0 840x525 85.0 86.0 87.0 88.0 89.0 832x624 90.0 800x600 91.0 92.0 93.0 94.0 95.0 96.0 97.0 98.0 99.0 800x512 100.0 720x450 101.0 720x400 102.0 680x384 103.0 104.0 640x512 105.0 106.0 107.0 640x480 108.0 109.0 110.0 111.0 112.0 113.0 114.0 640x400 115.0 640x350 116.0 576x432 117.0 118.0 119.0 120.0 121.0 122.0 512x384 123.0 124.0 125.0 126.0 416x312 127.0 400x300 128.0 129.0 130.0 131.0 360x200 132.0 320x240 133.0 134.0 135.0 136.0 320x200 137.0 320x175 138.0 1792x1344 139.0 1920x1440 59.9 Somehow it also spontaneously added 1792x1344 although I had nothing to do with that, and the 139 Hz refresh rate in that row seems outside the specs. martin at newton:~$ xrandr --output default --mode 1920x1440 xrandr: Configure crtc 0 failed martin at newton:~$ xrandr --verbose --output default --mode 1920x1440 screen 0: 1920x1440 481x361 mm 101.26dpi crtc 0: 1920x1440 59.9 +0+0 "default" xrandr: Configure crtc 0 failed crtc 0: disable screen 0: revert crtc 0: revert I've been googling both these "screen cannot be larger" and "Configure crtc 0 failed" errors all day and experimenting with the various suggestions to no avail. Anyone out there actually know what this all means and can get me over this problem? Cheers. Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 17:41:13 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 13:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu 10.04 screen resolutions In-Reply-To: <4C03C4F9.1020407-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C02D0B9.6080909@yahoo.ca> <4C03C4F9.1020407@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: | From: marthter | The monitor is (quite old) ViewSonic P815 | vertical frequency range 50 - 160 Hz | horizontal frequency range 30 - 115 kHz Is it so old that it doesnt' support DDC? Have a look in your /var/log/Xorg.0.log to see what your driver finds. For example, here's what mine finds. It prints it 3 times (why?). There are not many choices because an LCD really only wants one mode: (II) RADEON(0): Port1: XRANDR name: DVI-0 Connector: DVI-I CRT1: INTERNAL_KLDSCP_DAC1 DFP2: INTERNAL_KLDSCP_LVTMA DDC reg: 0x7e40 (II) RADEON(0): I2C device "DVI-1:E-EDID segment register" registered at address 0x60. (II) RADEON(0): I2C device "DVI-1:ddc2" registered at address 0xA0. (II) RADEON(0): Output: DVI-1, Detected Monitor Type: 0 finished output detect: 0 (II) RADEON(0): I2C device "DVI-0:E-EDID segment register" registered at address 0x60. (II) RADEON(0): I2C device "DVI-0:ddc2" registered at address 0xA0. (II) RADEON(0): Output: DVI-0, Detected Monitor Type: 3 (II) RADEON(0): EDID data from the display on output: DVI-0 ---------------------- (II) RADEON(0): Manufacturer: DEL Model: 4016 Serial#: 1194472500 (II) RADEON(0): Year: 2005 Week: 51 (II) RADEON(0): EDID Version: 1.3 (II) RADEON(0): Digital Display Input (II) RADEON(0): Max Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 64 vert.: 40 (II) RADEON(0): Gamma: 2.20 (II) RADEON(0): DPMS capabilities: Off (II) RADEON(0): Supported color encodings: RGB 4:4:4 YCrCb 4:4:4 (II) RADEON(0): First detailed timing not preferred mode in violation of standard! (II) RADEON(0): redX: 0.640 redY: 0.343 greenX: 0.292 greenY: 0.611 (II) RADEON(0): blueX: 0.146 blueY: 0.074 whiteX: 0.313 whiteY: 0.331 (II) RADEON(0): Manufacturer's mask: 0 (II) RADEON(0): Supported detailed timing: (II) RADEON(0): clock: 71.0 MHz Image Size: 646 x 406 mm (II) RADEON(0): h_active: 1280 h_sync: 1328 h_sync_end 1360 h_blank_end 1440 h_border: 0 (II) RADEON(0): v_active: 800 v_sync: 803 v_sync_end 809 v_blanking: 823 v_border: 0 (II) RADEON(0): Supported detailed timing: (II) RADEON(0): clock: 268.0 MHz Image Size: 646 x 406 mm (II) RADEON(0): h_active: 2560 h_sync: 2608 h_sync_end 2640 h_blank_end 2720 h_border: 0 (II) RADEON(0): v_active: 1600 v_sync: 1603 v_sync_end 1609 v_blanking: 1646 v_border: 0 (II) RADEON(0): Monitor name: DELL 3007WFP (II) RADEON(0): Serial No: JG5785CFG244 (II) RADEON(0): EDID (in hex): (II) RADEON(0): 00ffffffffffff0010ac164034343247 (II) RADEON(0): 330f01038040287828fe87a3574a9c25 (II) RADEON(0): 13505400000001010101010101010101 (II) RADEON(0): 010101010101bc1b00a0502017303020 (II) RADEON(0): 360086962100001ab06800a0a0402e60 (II) RADEON(0): 3020360086962100001e000000fc0044 (II) RADEON(0): 454c4c20333030375746500a000000ff (II) RADEON(0): 004a47353738354346473234340a0007 finished output detect: 1 When I've used monitors without DDC/DDC/EDID support, some xorg drivers are startled and misbehave. Although lack of such support is legal, almost nobody has such a setup so the xorg code is not well tested for that case. See, for example, | Its user guide is a little vague on its true maximum resolution... if it is to | comply with FCC class B it says its max is 1600x1200. That requirement is to do with RF emision. I guess that if you crank up the resolution, airplanes might fall out of the sky and garage doors might spontaneously open. | xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1792x1344 (desired size 1920x1440) I wonder why? In the old days (it may have changed) the frame buffer got allocated for the startup resolution (but you could specify larger) and then you could not switch to a resolution that would not fit in that space. But that would be a limit on the product of dimensions, not each dimension. Some video hardware can only do some kinds of acceleration (3d?) at resolutions that are lower than what they can do 2d at. Maybe that is what you are hitting. A GeForce 6150SE nForce 430 is pretty weak. Are you using DVI? Unless you are using dual-link DVI (I don't think you are), the bandwith limit is 1920x1200 at 60Hz if I remember correctly. I guess you are using VGA given the age of the monitor. I don't know the limit in that case. Dunno. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 19:02:55 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 15:02:55 -0400 Subject: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 8:40 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > regarding my previous musings on the market for actual, professional > linux training around here ... > > On Sun, 30 May 2010, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > This is an area of real interest to me as I am interested in doing > > Linux education. I don't know what sort of a pay market is out > > there. I have been happy to do some volunteer training for Planet > > Geek (www.planetgeek.ca), Free Geek Toronto (freegeektoronto.org) as > > well as talking at GTALug (http://gtalug.org/wiki/Colin_McGregor) > > and Unix Unanimous (gtalug.org/wiki/Unix_Unanimous). For the most > > part I enjoy doing volunteer presentations, but ... they don't put > > food on the table... > > and there it is. we have buckets in common -- i've given numerous > presentations for my local LUG (in fact, i'm doing another short one > at the very next meeting: http://kwlug.org/node/692). i've been a > speaker at two ontario linux fests. i've written loads of tutorials > and posted them online for the taking. but, in the end, none of that > is billable. > > i love training. and i'm pretty sure i'm good at it by now. :-) > but this brings us back to the fundamental questions: > > 1) *is* there a linux training market out there and ... > > 2) if there is, has it already been claimed by the big vendors so that > there's nothing left for anyone else? > > granted, if one is offering courses in niche topics like kernel > programming, the market for that is *clearly* going to be small. but > it's precisely *because* it's a small market that most of the big > players aren't going to spend a lot of time trying to grab it. and if > one has really, really good courseware and a market the size of > toronto, is it unreasonable to think you might be able to sell a > course every month or two? > > anyway, it would be nice to hear from folks on this list whose > companies have *sent* them for linux training. tell us about it. > what are the hot areas? are you going back for more? etc, etc. i > hate to give up on my dream of high-tech linux training, but if > there's just nothing there in terms of a market, i really should know > that and accept it. thanks. > > rday > > p.s. a few years back, when i tried to get established in the K-W > area to do training, i offered introductory linux training at a > stupidly low price to local companies just to break in. > > typically, high-end training like linux sells for around $4-500 per > day per student, so sending a single person on a 5-day course would > set a company back around $2000-2500. and if travel's involved, well, > naturally the costs go up (although if you're in TO, chances are you > won't need to travel). > > my offer was for the single-day courses that i had on hand, the > total cost would be between $1000-1500 for the day for *an entire > class*. that is, on-site training, the client could fill the room > (hopefully, they had computers to use). said client could put up to > 12 people in the class so that the average cost per student per day > would be about $100. an absurdly good deal for the client, and still > enough to make me sufficiently happy. > > i got one day of training from one local client and that's it. > granted, it might be because no one knew who i was at the time, but > even after that, it was nigh impossible to sell training around here. > > anyway, enough rambling, but if anyone in TO is considering linux > training of one form or another, drop me a note. maybe i can help, > maybe i can't. but you'll never know if you don't ask. :-) > > > Well at least your lug meetings get turnouts so you can practise. I was getting same 4 people every week and that was it. People talked about helping but it rarely happened. I guess it's time to schedule another meeting and see if any more shows. -- Mark Lane -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 19:51:29 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 19:51:29 +0000 Subject: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Mark Lane wrote: >> 1) *is* there a linux training market out there and ... >> >> 2) if there is, has it already been claimed by the big vendors so that >> there's nothing left for anyone else? I suspect that you're right in thinking that this sort of training has been claimed by the big vendors. There's a fair chance, as well, that training courses are a Giffen good, or similar. No doubt there's a "golf effect" involved with this: - The big vendors have salescritters that play golf with CTOs and the like - It's an attractive idea for CTOs to announce standardization of training policies. It encourages golf-related shenanigans. - This adds together to a tendency for the folks high up in large organizations to standardize on dealing with Big Training Orgs. (Learning Tree is a specialized example, but vendors like IBM and Oracle are also big on this.) This leaves cheaper options in a free-fall where they're not valued *at all* by the sorts of decision makers that have Real Money to throw at training. There are "horns of dilemma" here... - If you offer training services cheap, this validates the assumption that it's not worth anything. - If you try to offer training services at a dear price, well, since you haven't sales deals in place, you won't succeed at selling training to anyone, and you're back at "not worth anything." This isn't encouraging, but I expect it's more useful to get realism than to do the "cargo cult if we build it they will come" thing. Field of Dreams may have been filled with pithy quotes, but the wish fulfillment aspect was mighty nonsensical. > Well at least your lug meetings get turnouts so you can practise. I was > getting same 4 people every week and that was it. People talked about > helping but it rarely happened. I guess it's time to schedule another > meeting and see if any more shows. ?Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.? -- Albert Einstein There's a valid place to think that keeping up supporting something can allow people to start trusting that it will continue, thereby allowing it to become successful. But absent of some particularly good reason to expect different results, it doesn't seem very sane to me to keep trying something that didn't work before. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 20:13:43 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 16:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This crowd isn't very likely to contain a direct customer. Most of us try to figure things out for ourselves. And we're cheap. Some (not me) have gigs in big organizations (eg. bank datacentres) that should be reasonable customers. But most of them have been hired as techies, not managers, so they don't make the buying decisions. (This is a pure guess on my part.) Your question might get more answers from a different audience. Not that I know how to find that audience. We, the Linux community, need to have people offering those services. I just don't know how to get you the business to thrive. I imagine hiring IBM is a comfortable thing. One-stop-shopping for tonnes of stuff. And their rep is on the line for each transaction. When you contract for services from a million different providers, there is an apparently large overhead of uncertainty. At one time, gurus were suggesting "virtual corporations". Perhaps they meant fluid federations of independent entities. Perhaps that is what you need. This would add value if the federation could provide an imprimateur: all in the federation vouch for each. I'm not sure that this ends up being very different from a real corporation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Mon May 31 20:56:21 2010 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 16:56:21 -0400 Subject: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100531165621.57nudltye8kwgkgk@mail.math.yorku.ca> Quoting Christopher Browne : > I suspect that you're right in thinking that this sort of training has > been claimed by the big vendors. There's a fair chance, as well, that > training courses are a Giffen good, or similar. > I'm going to indulge myself in an off-topic pedantic quibble: What you're describing is not a Giffen good. Your point is that higher price may result in more consumption because buyers assume it's better. I don't know if that has a name ("Veblen good" is close but not quite the same; that's where people buy expensive stuff to show it off). A Giffen good is an inferior good (that is, one for which consumers would prefer a substitute), such that when you raise its price, it is more consumed, because of the effect of the higher price on the effective income of the consumers. I think the classic example is raising the price of potatoes and thereby making consumers unable to buy bread (because they still have to pay for a certain amount of potatoes; they can't afford to live on bread alone) -- so they wind up having to buy even more potatoes. Giffen goods exist in certain economic models. Offhand the effect doesn't sound very probable, and to my knowledge there is no uncontroversial example in the wild. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists